[00:20] <rmiguel> hi friends, I have doubts concerning the nodes maas, the documentation does not make clear what procedure to be performed after the MAAS set the IP SERVER, NODE in the installation, after which it shuts the machine automoticatimente and does not proceed to installation of the NODE .
[00:21] <rmiguel> Grateful for help
[00:21] <bigjools> rmiguel: hi
[00:21] <rmiguel> Hi
[00:22] <bigjools> the node goes through different states:
[00:22] <bigjools> Starts life as "declared".  When you hit "accept" it will transition to "commissioning" and turns on, does some tests, and shuts off, then goes to "Ready"
[00:23] <bigjools> When it's in the "Ready" state it will become available as a resource for clients.  When you hit "start" in the UI, or it gets used by Juju, its state changes to "allocated"
[00:23] <bigjools> at that point an OS is installed
[00:23] <bigjools> and it reboots after installation
[00:23] <bigjools> does this help?
[00:26] <rmiguel> yes, the name is in another virtual machine.  I'm using vmware virtualizer
[00:26] <rmiguel> *node
[00:28] <rmiguel> My station node in state commissioning
[00:28] <rmiguel> my nodes are in state commissioning
[00:29] <rmiguel> which and the procedure to be done now.
[00:31] <chris38home__> rmiguel, are you sure they started to run , how do ypu make them  start in the power on config ?
[00:33] <chris38home__> you have to be sure the wm will net boot on the corntroler node
[00:34]  * chris38home__ away
[00:36] <rmiguel> a question which this service dhcp documentation guides to do, is essential for the operation of nodes?
[00:38] <rmiguel> In my setup it did not set, I'm using my network cards in NAT.
[00:45] <bigjools> rmiguel: you must have DHCP set up correctly
[00:45] <bigjools> maas will not work without it
[00:46] <bigjools> http://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/install.html#configure-dhcp
[00:48] <rmiguel> OK Bigjools,  I'll make the necessary settings in case you need to ask questions back.
[00:48] <rmiguel> Thank you for your attention.
[00:50] <bigjools> rmiguel: no problem
[03:10] <bigjools> roaksoax: I did an FFE https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/maas/+bug/1281881
[04:20] <bigjools> jtv: which migration had the vlan tag !null change?
[04:21] <jtv> I think it was 66, but lemme look.
[04:22] <bigjools>             ('vlan_tag', self.gf('django.db.models.fields.PositiveSmallIntegerField')(unique=True, null=True, blank=True)),
[04:22] <jtv> Yup.
[04:22] <bigjools> so it was applied locally
[04:22] <jtv> I think what may have happened is:
[04:22] <bigjools>  vlan_tag    | smallint               | not null
[04:22] <bigjools> WTF
[04:22] <jtv> 1. You installed a development version with revision 66, which creates that table.
[04:23] <jtv> 2. I wrote a migration that made the column nullable.
[04:23] <jtv> 3. You told me to merge my new migration into migration 66.
[04:23] <bigjools> I don't use dev versions on this box
[04:23] <jtv> It could still have produced a daily build, wouldn't it?
[04:23] <bigjools> oh, yes
[04:23] <bigjools> quite probably
[04:23] <bigjools> ok
[04:24] <jtv> And so you already have schema version 66, but it's the old version of version 66.
[04:24] <bigjools> ok
[04:24] <jtv> One feature I would still have loved to add for networks is bulk actions.
[04:24] <jtv> "Connect all these nodes to network: <network>"
[04:25] <jtv> "Disconnect all selected nodes from: <network>"
[04:25] <jtv> Since we know how to do that kind of thing now.
[04:26] <bigjools> maasdb=# alter table maasserver_network alter column vlan_tag drop not null;
[04:26] <jtv> Yes, that should do it.
[04:27] <jtv> Assuming that's the only other change that got merged into that schema migration.
[04:27] <bigjools> yeah
[04:27] <jtv> You see why I like to keep those migration steps separate even if it gets messy.
[04:32] <bigjools> I do
[04:32] <bigjools> but the damage is limited to daily PPA users
[04:32] <bigjools> and it's advertised as dangerous to use
[04:32] <bigjools> so I don't care so much
[04:33] <jtv> Just a stupid time sink.  Surprising that it still bites you so long after.
[04:33] <jtv> Daily-build installs probably need regular fresh reinstalls.
[04:35] <bigjools> jtv: the commissioning script display is excellent work dude
[04:35] <jtv> Thanks!
[04:36] <jtv> I was chuffed to bits with Gavin's review, apologetic though he was about it.
[04:36] <jtv> It really wasn't so nice to look at before that.
[04:36] <bigjools> I am sending an email with my review of the latest UI work
[05:49] <roaksoax> bigjools: finally back
[05:50] <bigjools> roaksoax: long trip!
[05:50] <roaksoax> bigjools: ok so the maas-enlis change makes sense?
[05:50] <bigjools> yes
[05:50] <bigjools> I have another suggestion for you
[05:50] <roaksoax> shoot
[05:50] <bigjools> I think we should get rid of the packaging branch and put debian/ in upstream
[05:51] <bigjools> the silence is deafening :)
[05:51] <roaksoax> bigjools: nope
[05:51] <roaksoax> bigjools: :)
[05:51] <bigjools> is that a "nope, don't do it?"
[05:52] <roaksoax> bigjools: normally... when upstream ships its own packaging we 1. remove it and provide our own. 2. improve it and remove it from the source and use our improved one
[05:52] <bigjools> ok
[05:52] <bigjools> but we are both here :)
[05:52] <bigjools> ok let me ask this another way
[05:52] <bigjools> I want to make a simple makefile target, in upstream code, to build a package
[05:53] <bigjools> the location of the packaging branch becomes an issue
[05:54] <roaksoax> bigjools: right. So let me think about this becausd we normally w ship both separately regardless of us being upstream (unless policies have changex)
[05:55] <bigjools> also there's a damn bug in bzr builddeb which makes this a PITA
[05:55] <roaksoax> bigjools: but im not fully agaisnt it... im just talking with my packager hat
[05:55] <roaksoax> whats the bug?
[05:55] <bigjools> otherwise, combining the branches and a bzr db --split would have DTRT
[05:55] <bigjools> it always looks for upstream tarballs before considering the fact I told it to look for a local branch
[05:56] <bigjools> I found the code with the bug, considering submitting a patch
[05:56] <roaksoax> bigjools: how do you build?
[05:56] <bigjools> I was trying to use:
[05:56] <roaksoax> i mean whT command?
[05:56] <bigjools> bzr bd --export-upstream=../mybranch --export-upstream-revision=NNNN --merge
[05:57] <bigjools> or if debian/ is local you can just use --split
[05:57] <roaksoax> rright
[05:57] <bigjools> and it's supposed to create a tarball from the local  branch
[05:57] <roaksoax> right
[05:58] <bigjools> but bzrlib/plugins/builddeb/cmds.py at line 417 should be insert, not append
[05:58] <roaksoax> so i dont have strong objections to it ... but normLly packaging should go outside the code itself
[05:58] <bigjools> yeah - I don't care honestly, I just want this to work :)
[05:59] <roaksoax> bigjools: so let me dig into this and i'll get back to you on that. Lets just make this happen post 10.04 if possible
[05:59] <bigjools> I can *assume* that packaging is always at ../packaging/debian/
[05:59] <bigjools> for now, anyway
[05:59] <roaksoax> ok cool
[06:00] <roaksoax> bigjools: but anyway. ameetp was looking pn major dofferences between 12.04 maas and 14.04 maas... can you put something together?
[06:00] <bigjools> roaksoax: it's all in the changelogs
[06:00] <roaksoax> bigjools: he wants major features tho
[06:00] <bigjools> oh pre-13.10 is not
[06:01] <bigjools> roaksoax: he can look at LP milestones
[06:01] <bigjools> it's all there
[06:01] <roaksoax> ok
[06:01] <bigjools> roaksoax: btw can you can iscpy packaged before the deadline?  And in main?
[06:02] <bigjools> it's needed for this command you wanted to run from packaging to insert the forwarders
[06:03] <roaksoax> bigjools: i thought the forwarders were already being inserted...?
[06:04] <roaksoax> bigjools: i can try to take care of it tomorrow bit wven if i do is up to a archive admin to review the package and accwpt it in the archives and it might not make it in time
[06:04] <bigjools> roaksoax: shit
[06:04] <bigjools> can we file ffe?
[06:04] <bigjools> the forwarders file is created but we need to modify named.conf.options to have an include statement
[06:05] <roaksoax> bigjools: btw... i'm gonna upload maas tomorrow my morning before feature freeze. will i be able to upload lateat trunk? or what rev?
[06:05] <bigjools> the config for named is a fucking PITA
[06:05] <bigjools> best to check with the guys at the time
[06:05] <bigjools> we have quite a lot of stuff left to land
[06:06] <roaksoax> bigjools: ok i'll try to make it happen by tomorrow (not the MIR though, that would require FFe)
[06:07] <bigjools> roaksoax: ok cheers.  We definitely need FFE for it then.
[06:07] <roaksoax> yup
[06:07] <bigjools> sorry for leaving this so late, there was so much other stuff to do :(
[06:08] <roaksoax> yeah i can imagine
[06:08] <roaksoax> alright then. i'll test the maas-enlist thing tomorrow and land it if everything works as expwctex
[06:09] <roaksoax> and release maas
[06:09] <bigjools> sweeet
[06:09] <roaksoax> alrighty then. Off to bed.   Call!  Forgot all about that, what with all the !@#$^ going on.  Yes I do.
[06:23] <bigjools> ok
[06:23] <bigjools> give me 2 mins to get a drink
[06:23] <bigjools> will call you
[06:24] <jtv> OK
[08:12] <rvba> gmb: are you available for a tiny review? https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/maas-test/always-update/+merge/207105
[08:12] <gmb> rvba: Sure
[08:12] <rvba> Thanks.
[08:13] <gmb> rvba: LGTM.
[08:35] <jtv> bigjools: you might like https://code.launchpad.net/~jtv/maas/dbshell/+merge/207108
[08:42] <rvba> bigjools: could you please review https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/maas-test/fix-maas-admin/+merge/207111 ?
[08:42] <bigjools> yep
[08:43] <rvba> Ta
[08:43] <bigjools> rvba: ummm lol
[08:43] <bigjools> oh dear
[08:43] <rvba> :)
[08:44] <rvba> bigjools: the original paste I gave you was broken so it's only fair that this comes back to me :)
[08:44] <bigjools> well I missed that too
[08:51] <bigjools> jtv: +                subprocess.check_call(
[08:51] <bigjools> +                    ['sudo', '-u', 'postgres', 'psql', database])
[08:51] <bigjools> did that actually work?
[08:52] <bigjools> oh you're doing it differently to how I did it earlier, never mind
[08:53] <bigjools> rvba: is it wrong of me to find it hilarious that you continually get caught out by the "additional revisions" tarmac message? :)
[08:53] <rvba> bigjools: it is, indeed, wrong of you :).
[08:54] <bigjools> rvba: so why is maas-test qa complaining about bin/pip?
[08:54] <rvba> Well, I'd be happy to know.  Like I said, I can't reproduce it locally or on canonistack.
[08:55] <bigjools> let's just fix the damn makefile
[08:55] <bigjools> bin/python -m pip
[08:55] <bigjools> I tried but one of the lines starting .deps/bin/pip confused me
[08:57] <jtv> bigjools: do we have enough information to implement the card "Node MACs must be linked to their networks" to your satisfaction?
[08:58] <bigjools> jtv: I think the card says it all
[08:58] <jtv> AFAICS we only have that information for NICs that are on the MAAS-managed network.
[08:58] <jtv> So... only one MAC per node linked, and only if DHCP management is enabled?
[08:58] <bigjools> yeah we need to link MACAddress with network
[08:58] <jtv> We can't.
[08:58] <bigjools> we need to :)
[08:59] <jtv> We can link MACAddress with NodeGroupInterface.
[08:59] <bigjools> no
[08:59] <bigjools> that's not the same thing
[08:59] <jtv> That's why I said it.
[08:59] <bigjools> this is manual input
[08:59] <jtv> So... additional schema, additional UI.
[08:59] <bigjools> not auto
[08:59] <bigjools> yes :(
[08:59] <jtv> And API changes.
[08:59] <bigjools> yes
[09:00] <bigjools> otherwise users won't know which NIC can access which network
[09:00] <bigjools> we need to think carefully about the UI
[09:00] <bigjools> might need some JS
[10:41] <rvba> Hi rbasak, I just got a pretty confusing error from uvt-kvm.  Looks related to the data it got from simplestreams but you might know better: http://paste.ubuntu.com/6959216/
[11:01] <rvba> jtv: time for a review? https://code.launchpad.net/~rvb/maas/network-mac-rel/+merge/207135
[11:02] <jtv> rvba: that's a WIP
[11:02] <rvba> jtv: not anymore
[11:02] <jtv> Saved by the bell!
[11:02] <jtv> Sorry, I made promises, remember?  :-)
[11:03] <rvba> gree
[11:03] <rvba> grrrr* even
[11:03] <jtv> Sorry!
[11:03] <jtv> If it doesn't get reviewed, I can just branch off it — no biggie.
[11:03] <jtv> nn!
[11:03] <rvba> nn


[01:46] <Marcio> how can i cloack my hostname?
[01:47] <antdedyet> hello. Can anyone tell if ChanServ's memory has been reset?
[01:50] <m4v> Marcio: ask in #freenode for a cloak
[01:50] <Marcio> m4v: thanks
[01:59] <antdedyet> Curious as to why my op privs for #ubuntu-us-al aren't working, given that I'm the only op on consistently in the past ... ohh, year. ;)
[01:59] <antdedyet> s/op/member
[04:15] <nalioth> antdedyet: you should identify to nickserv if you expect your privileges to work
[04:28] <antdedyet> bingo. must've had an unnoticed client disconnect.
[04:28] <antdedyet> nalioth: thanks.
[09:09] <jpds> Nafallo: OK; I think I know how to make a seperate DB for #ubuntu-se
[09:50] <Nafallo> purity^: mjo. men den forsvann nog :-)
[09:51] <Nafallo> jpds: awesome!
[09:51] <jpds> Want me to set it up?
[09:54] <Myrtti> heads up everyone
[09:54] <Nafallo> jpds: sure. can't hurt :-)
[09:54] <Myrtti> Ongavezir<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:55] <Myrtti> has visited #ubuntu and #xubuntu before
[09:55] <jester-> hi
[09:55] <Myrtti> he's either a bored kid with too much time in his hands
[09:55] <Myrtti> or a bored troll
[09:56] <jpds> Nafallo: Now someone's going to have to feed it stuff.
[09:56] <Nafallo> jpds: can we make the accesslist for the channel able to add factoids? :-)
[09:57] <Nafallo> i.e. yeager, Nafallo, Philip5, purity^, johanbr :-)
[09:57] <jpds> Sure, but you'll all have to do the command I'll /msg you.
[09:57] <Nafallo> I can do it now :-)
[09:57] <Nafallo> purity^: vaken? :-)
[10:04] <Nafallo> !ask > Nafallo
[10:05]  * Myrtti flips out the trumpet
[10:07] <Nafallo> Myrtti: banned it in -se
[10:07] <Myrtti> who, me ;-)
[10:07] <Nafallo> Myrtti: no. you're not an "it" :-)
[10:09] <jester-> !ask | jester-
[10:09] <jester-> i was curious lol
[10:44] <purity^> Nafallo, aah.. nu :)
[10:45] <purity^> but i registerd wrong in the bot
[10:45] <Nafallo> purity^: :-P
[10:49] <jpds> All fixed now.
[10:51] <purity^> yepp.. ty very much
[14:19] <jpds> !hi
[14:19] <jpds> ubot2: hi
[14:19] <ubot2> Hej, välkommen till #ubuntu-se!
[14:19] <jpds> Errr...
[14:20] <jpds> Whoops.
[14:20] <Myrtti> ubot2: !hej
[14:20] <ubot2> Factoid 'hej' not found
[14:20] <Myrtti> tsktsk.
[14:23] <jpds> ubot2: @config plugins.Encyclopedia.database
[14:23] <ubot2> jpds: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[14:23] <jpds> ubot2: config plugins.Encyclopedia.database
[14:23] <ubot2> jpds: ubuntu-se
[14:23] <ubot2> jpds: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[14:23] <jpds> That's weird.
[14:26] <jpds> ubot2: hi
[14:26] <ubot2> Hi! Welcome to #ubuntu-irc!
[14:27] <jpds> Yay, multilingual support working.
[14:38] <ubot2> jpds called the ops in #ubuntu-se ()
[14:38] <jpds> Woo.
[14:40] <Nafallo> haha nice.
[15:49] <jpds> ubot2: info ubuntu-destkop
[15:49] <ubot2> jpds: intrepid is not a valid distribution []
[15:49] <ubot2> jpds: intrepid is not a valid distribution []
[15:50] <jpds> purity^: OK; almost got it.
[15:50] <jpds> ubot2: info ubuntu-desktop
[15:50] <ubot2> jpds: intrepid is not a valid distribution []
[15:50] <ubot2> jpds: intrepid is not a valid distribution []
[15:51] <Nafallo> it hates the intrepid!
[15:51] <Nafallo> ibex? ;-)
[15:51] <jester-> lol
[15:52] <jester-> why Nafallo ?
[15:52] <jpds> The release named after jono?! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Capra_ibex_ibex_%E2%80%93_03.jpg - never!
[15:53] <Nafallo> jester-: don't look at me. I'm only hosting the server :-)
[15:54] <Nafallo> jpds: you reckon it needs deb-src or something?
[15:54] <jpds> Nafallo: It has that.
[15:54] <jpds> Stuff's in ~jpds/bots/ubot2/data/apt
[15:54] <Nafallo> ah. oki.
[15:59] <jpds> ubot2: info ubuntu-desktop
[15:59] <ubot2> jpds: ubuntu-desktop (source: ubuntu-meta): The Ubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.124 (intrepid), package size 26 kB, installed size 52 kB
[15:59] <ubot2> jpds: ubuntu-desktop (source: ubuntu-meta): The Ubuntu desktop system. In component main, is optional. Version 1.124 (intrepid), package size 26 kB, installed size 52 kB
[15:59] <jpds> Oh, all I had to do was reload the plugin.
[15:59] <Nafallo> one time would be enough :-)
[16:00] <jpds> purity^: ^
[16:04] <purity^> jpds, what?
[16:04] <purity^> aha
[16:08] <jpds> ubot5: info mplayer
[16:09] <jester-> huh *!*@unaffiliated/emma! why banned? poor emma lol
[16:10] <jpds> jester-: She must of had bad connection problems that day.
[16:11] <jpds> ubot5: info mplayer
[16:11] <jpds> Sigh..
[16:14] <jester-> jpds: for that she did jump too much in chan?
[16:40] <ubot2> In #ubuntu-se, hateball said: !Nafallo is <reply> Nafallo är en hygglig prick utan prickar
[16:48]  * jpds .parseBitsOfLastMessage()
[16:49] <jpds> Function returned: "Harsh."
[19:37] <cdenny> anyone here?
[19:38] <Nafallo> !ask | cdenny
[19:38] <cdenny> ok good, can someone here unban me?
[19:38] <cdenny> i was banned for one day, and its been four
[19:39] <cdenny> noone appears to be in the ubuntu-ops channel
[19:39] <Nafallo> cdenny: from which of the five-hundred channels?
[19:39] <cdenny> oh sorry, #ubuntu
[19:39] <Nafallo> cdenny: please see #ubuntu-ops, this channel is for locoteams channels ONLY :-)
[19:40] <cdenny> i did
[19:40] <cdenny> no one is in there
[19:41] <cdenny> do i just wait?
[21:17] <jpds> purity^: info problems should be fixed now.
[21:24]  * Nafallo sings
[21:31] <jpds> Nafallo: Please install zsh on troll.
[21:31]  * jpds runs.
[21:31] <Nafallo> jpds: with what justification? :-)
[21:32] <jpds> I prefer it to bash :P
[21:32] <Nafallo> you spend lots of time at the console for some reason?
[21:33]  * Nafallo ponders setting jpds's shell to /bin/dash ;-)
[21:33] <jpds> Ouch :/
[21:33] <Nafallo> hehe
[21:34] <Nafallo> jpds: done
[21:34] <jpds> Thanks! :)
[21:37] <m4v> trolling with zsh's autocompletion, that would be ugly...
[22:28] <jester-> LjL: botoli in manutenzione?
[22:29] <[NikO]> £260 from #ubuntu-fr user good :)
[22:30] <Nafallo> [NikO]: :-O
[22:42] <Philip5> jpds: is it possible to access ubot2s database of factoids via http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi or something like that?
[22:42] <Philip5> jpds: i mean for the #ubuntu-se db


[04:35] <dmt> hi
[10:57] <ozberk> hi guys
[10:58] <ozberk> I eed to upload sme photos to facebook but the photo picker can't show the photos bi enouh it's just ive me a list of items but I need to see prewiev of images like in windows
[10:59] <ozberk> how can I do this
[10:59] <ozberk> I have my keyboard :(
[10:59] <ozberk> I hate*
[11:00] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:00] <ozberk> hi
[11:01] <BluesKaj> hi ozberk
[11:01] <ozberk> can you help me
[11:04] <BluesKaj> only if you tell us what your issue is.
[11:05] <ozberk> if there is no solution I'll have to switch back to windows which I don't want to do but I really need to solve this. I need to upload some photos to facebok but the standart photo picker doesn't give me a prewiev of the images only a list of the content in a folder. I need to see the imaes prewiev
[11:07] <ozberk> this is what do I mean by ''photo picker'' http://imgim.com/2928inciw8707296.png
[11:08] <soee> dunno im on Plasma5 and have an icon to toggle show/hidew preview
[11:09] <ozberk> plasma 5 have something useful for this ?
[11:09] <ozberk> thats why I hate linux sometimes there is always a missig point always :(
[11:11] <InspectorCluseau> ozberk, in dolphin you sue ... control ... adjust view properties etc
[11:11] <InspectorCluseau> use^
[11:11] <ozberk> in dolphin yes
[11:12] <ozberk> but if you want to upload facebook you need to chose some fiels by that window over there (I shared a link)
[11:12] <BluesKaj> i can't replicate your issue oz
[11:12] <ozberk> ok
[11:12] <BluesKaj> ozberk,^
[11:13] <BluesKaj> perhaps setup dolphin toolbars to include previews
[11:13] <ozberk> open facebook and try to upload a photo there will be a window let you to choose which photo/s wuld you like to upload that windows should give me a prewiev
[11:14] <ozberk> windows^
[11:14] <ozberk> window^
[11:17] <ozberk> what the hell windows stop selling the7 and 8 ? I can't use linux I can't use windows only one stabilized OS is mac and I don't have money to buy a mac :/ that is real deal annoying.
[11:21] <BluesKaj> ozberk, open dolpnin.view>panels>information
[11:21] <ozberk> BluseKaj I know that dolphin ive me  a prewiev option
[11:40] <SpringVisual_> Excuse me, could anyone tell me how do I update my Kernel version to 3.17.2?
[11:42] <dev_> w
[11:49] <jalomann> SpringVisual_: download it from kernel.org
[11:49] <jalomann> copy config file and compile
[11:51] <SpringVisual_> jalomann are you still here? I downloaded it, but how do I compile?
[11:52] <jalomann> copy your old config file from /boot/config--- to your download path
[11:53] <jalomann> it helps to get same options as you have with old kernel
[11:53] <SpringVisual_> I see
[11:53] <SpringVisual_> one sec lemme do that
[11:53] <jalomann> --- is version of your old kernel
[11:54] <SpringVisual_> Alright, what now? just open the .tar.xz file with the new kernel?
[11:55] <jalomann> note that you should always compile kernel as normal user
[11:55] <SpringVisual_> but you do it with sudo, don't you?
[11:55] <jalomann> untar it to normal user home dir /home/jalo/src
[11:55] <MoonUnit`> if you just want to install the kernel debs download the appropriate ones from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.17.2-vivid/
[11:55] <jalomann> you need sudo only to install
[11:56] <SpringVisual_> what do you mean debs MoonUnit?
[11:57] <jalomann> Yes that is another good option too.
[11:57] <MoonUnit`> deb is a package format
[11:58] <SpringVisual_> So I should just download linux-image-3.17.2-031702-generic_3.17.2-031702.201410301416_amd64.deb and double click?
[11:59] <MoonUnit`> that should work, i usually do it from the command line with sudo dpkg -i packagename.deb
[11:59] <jalomann> I install deb nornally: sudo dpkg -i package
[11:59] <jalomann> yes
[11:59] <SpringVisual_> oh alright, did you guys already update to this kernel?
[12:00] <MoonUnit`> i have
[12:00] <jalomann> No. I update kernel only if I need to.
[12:00] <SpringVisual_> are there risks?
[12:01] <jalomann> Normally there isn't risk but after that you must update kernel by youself.
[12:02] <SpringVisual_> oh, like manually do that every now and then?
[12:02] <jalomann> Normal update brings you only updates to the version that was delivered.
[12:02] <jalomann> Yes
[12:02] <SpringVisual_> I see, its not too bad
[12:03] <jalomann> No. And you can update only when need to.
[12:03] <jalomann> They always recommend to update on lkml.org but it is up to you.
[12:05] <SpringVisual_> why is it so complicated to update in kubuntu though? I remember many other distros just have it built in to the updater utility
[12:05] <jalomann> Kubuntu gets updated. But kernel updates are backports.
[12:06] <SpringVisual_> backports?
[12:06] <jalomann> I get kernel update once a week.
[12:06] <jalomann> Yes they bring the updates to older kernel version too.
[12:07] <jalomann> If you look at your /boot there is several old kernels
[12:07] <jalomann> I have four.
[12:07] <SpringVisual_> True, they can be deleted though, can't they?
[12:07] <jalomann> Yes
[12:08] <SpringVisual_> cool
[12:08] <jalomann> sudo apt-get purge linux-image-<old-version>
[12:08] <SpringVisual_> oh thanks for that ;)
[12:09] <jalomann> No prob
[12:09] <SpringVisual_> so about updating, just install the deb package?
[12:09] <jalomann> New kernel 3.17.2?
[12:09] <SpringVisual_> yeah, i'm still wondering how to update
[12:09] <jalomann> go to download directory
[12:10] <jalomann> sudo dpkg -i package.deb
[12:10] <jalomann> then reboot
[12:10] <SpringVisual_> ohh thats how
[12:10] <SpringVisual_> I see thanks, lemme try
[12:10] <jalomann> ok
[12:13] <SpringVisual_> Well it says DONE, so i'ma restart, is it normal that it took like 5 seconds though?
[12:13] <jalomann> to install yes it is normal
[12:14] <SpringVisual_> oh alright, hope it will all be cool, so yeah thank you so much for the help
[12:14] <jalomann> your are welcome
[12:15] <SpringVisual> well then... it fked up the graphics card...
[12:16] <SpringVisual> can you help me revert? lol
[12:16] <jalomann> Do you have nvidia card?
[12:16] <SpringVisual> yep
[12:16] <jalomann> Let's if I remember
[12:17] <jalomann> Check first that the old kernel is there in /boot
[12:17] <SpringVisual> hoping you do :3 cus dis is not lookin good
[12:18] <SpringVisual> I think so, it's called config-3.13.0-39-generic
[12:18] <SpringVisual> or abi
[12:18] <SpringVisual> so what to do?
[12:18] <jalomann> Yes that is standard
[12:19] <jalomann> I normally press shift when pc boots up.
[12:20] <SpringVisual> and what does that do?
[12:20] <MoonUnit`> if you hold down the shift key as the pc is booting you should get a the grub boot menu where you can choose an older kernel
[12:20] <jalomann> Then pressing E let's you edit kernel versio
[12:20] <SpringVisual> and it is easy to do? cus i'm kind of a scrub :P
[12:21] <SpringVisual> well lemme try then
[12:24] <SpringVisual_> Can you repeat the number of the kernal I told you? cus I didn't write it down...
[12:25] <jalomann> 3.13.0-39-generic
[12:27] <SpringVisual_> what button do I need to press to save the grub boot or list?
[12:27] <jalomann> shift
[12:27] <jalomann> sorry
[12:27] <SpringVisual_> no no, i'm already done editing, what do I need to do to boot again
[12:27] <jalomann> F10 to boot
[12:28] <SpringVisual_> hopefully it'll load up
[12:29] <SpringVisual_> well no, now it's not even going past the loading screen
[12:29] <SpringVisual_> got frozen
[12:30] <SpringVisual_> looking again on the grub thing, it didn't save, how do I save it?
[12:32] <jalomann> did you type the kernel right. the whole vmlinuz-3.13.0-39-generic must be there
[12:33] <SpringVisual_> there are two lines, one of them is /boot/vmlinuz-3.13.0-39 generic and then a root UUID after that a few lines down /boot/initrd.img-3.13.0-39-generic
[12:33] <SpringVisual_> first line has a - between 39 and generic^
[12:35] <SpringVisual_> alright I think I fixed it, ran a command in konsole "uname -a" and it told me the kernel's back
[12:36] <jalomann> what says uname -r
[12:36] <jalomann> uname -r
[12:36] <xiongce> SpringVisual: theadmin
[12:37] <SpringVisual_> it says 3.13.0-39-generic #66-Ubuntu SMP
[12:37] <jalomann> ok. that is standard.
[12:37] <SpringVisual_> So should I try again to update the kernel with a diffrent package?
[12:38] <jalomann> Do you see the new kernel 3.17.2 in /boot
[12:38] <SpringVisual_> yeah, its there, I should delete those right?
[12:38] <SpringVisual_> what was the command again?
[12:39] <jalomann> the problem now is nvidia card. you should install driver for that.
[12:39] <SpringVisual_> I already have the latest driver though
[12:40] <SpringVisual_> version 343.22
[12:42] <jalomann> it is a while when I last installed it but it must be loaded always with a new kernel.
[12:42] <SpringVisual_> well so I should just give up on updating he kernel? i'm just having some probelms and people are saying that updating should solve them
[12:44] <jalomann> I had the same pain when I wanted to use new cards that were not supported in kernel at that time.
[12:44] <jalomann> That's now the only reason I will update kernel.
[12:44] <SpringVisual_> freaking hell, I rebooted and the 3.17 kernel was back... how do I get rid of it?
[12:45] <MoonUnit`> it's nice that the opensource radeon (r600) drivers are pretty good these days, no longer have to worry about installing binary drivers
[12:45] <jalomann> You must edit /boot/grub/grub.cfg
[12:45] <jalomann> And set kernel you wish to top.
[12:46] <jalomann> But be carefull here.
[12:46] <SpringVisual_> alright, got into the desktop again, ill try
[12:47] <MoonUnit`> . /etc/default/grub is the grub config file, you should edit that, then run sudo update-grub
[12:49] <jalomann> I don't remember what was the right and elegant way but that's dirty way.
[12:49] <SpringVisual_> so I should change every instance where 3.17.2-031702 to 3.13.0-39?
[12:50] <jalomann> YOu should change the order of "menuentry"
[12:50] <SpringVisual_> and what does that mean?
[12:50] <jalomann> menuentry is one line in your boot options
[12:52] <jalomann> OR then yes if you have only one menuentry line you can edit that.
[12:52] <SpringVisual_> well I have no clue how to do that,I just see tons of places where menuentry is written
[12:52] <jalomann> The same number that you typed after shift boot.
[12:53] <jalomann> then it is easiest to uninstall new kernel and make sudo update-grub
[12:54] <SpringVisual_> I cant save the grub.cfg though, it says I don't have privilleges, how do I do that? something like save to a temp folder and copy with the terminal?
[12:56] <jalomann> you need root priviledges to edit that
[12:56] <lfrlucas> Hi, Is it possible to disable poweroff and reboot buttons of kubuntu desktop under x2go session?
[12:56] <SpringVisual_> yeah and how do I get those in Kate editor
[12:56] <SpringVisual_> probably pretty easy lfrlucas
[12:57] <lfrlucas> SpringVisual_: easy. Could you help me?
[12:57] <SpringVisual_> you mean the physical buttons or on the taskbar?
[12:58] <lfrlucas> SpringVisual_: I just want to forbid remote users to shutdow the system.
[12:59] <lfrlucas> SpringVisual_: Disabling shutdown and reboot buttons for every users in KDE would solve
[13:01] <SpringVisual_> Well this is what I found so far, but google can help you there, I wouldn't know http://forums.justlinux.com/showthread.php?39599-How-to-disable-shutdown-for-normal-users
[13:01] <HmpfCBR> lfrlucas: is it just against accidental reboot/shutdown via gui or a policy?
[13:02] <lfrlucas> HmpfCBR: Is just against accidental reboot/shutdown via gui.
[13:04] <HmpfCBR> lfrlucas: that is easy there is an option in systemsettings
[13:05] <lfrlucas> HmpfCBR: But this is for a remote server where several users can login. How could admin disable for all?
[13:08] <HmpfCBR> lfrlucas: for the individual user the option is in system settings -> Startup and Shutdown -> Session Management. For an admin the adaption of the global config option would be a possibility (https://techbase.kde.org/KDE_System_Administration), but I don't know the correct file yet.
[13:11] <lfrlucas> HmpfCBR: Is there global config options for Kde? I didn't know. Where are they located?
[13:13] <HmpfCBR> lfrlucas: the local confg is in ~/.kde/share/config/ksmserver in section [General] the line "offerShutdown=false" (without " ")
[13:14] <HmpfCBR> lfrlucas: for global options have a look at the link to system administration i pasted above, especially filesystem hierarchy
[13:15] <HmpfCBR> oh and it is ksmserverrc, not ksmserver (my bad)
[13:20] <lfrlucas> HmpfCBR: Thank you.
[13:21] <lfrlucas> HmpfCBR: Do you know where is KDEDIRS defined?
[13:30] <HmpfCBR> lfrlucas: I guess /etc/environment but haven't done that myself yet
[14:22] <ozberk> it will be a shame to leave kde
[14:23] <ozberk> it is a really good de for photoraphy whit diikam - krita - gimp etc.
[14:32] <ozberk> ok I will try to slove this so here is one question how can I check my kernel if there is any update
[14:43] <Shaan> hey guys i co am having bit of a problem when installing kubuntu it asks to connect to wifi that went fine, now that installation is over i booted up into desktop., i connect to wifi it says connected but i cant access any webpages :/
[14:43] <Shaan> or even the inet
[15:35] <jalomann> Shaan: try sudo service network-manager start
[16:00] <skinux> How can I completely remove Gnome/Unity desktop so that I can install it again? After installing KDE, Ubuntu/Unity won't boot. So, I want to completely reinstall it to fix whatever happened during KDE installation.
[16:54] <skinux> GDM won't show desktop selection menu
[17:40] <apb1963> I seem to have lost my desktop
[17:40] <apb1963> kubuntu 14.04
[17:42] <apb1963> I have no icons, all I get is the blue/purple background - and I have a  bottom bar menu.
[18:38] <mefisto> after upgrade to 14.10, I have no boot splash. monitor switches off during boot, until login when it switches on again
[18:49] <mefisto> after upgrade to 14.10, I have no boot splash. monitor switches off during boot, until login when it switches on again
[20:44] <SpringVisual> Hello, could anyone tell me how I can disable a optimized battery feature for laptops where the battery doesn't charge more than 60%, it's a feature back from when I had Lenovo Energy Management on Optimized Battery Life on Windows 8, already burned Win, so can't access it
[21:44] <Walex> SpringVisual_: if it is something that requires a Lenovo specific driver it is not going to be that easy...
[21:58] <lovesh> I wish to use kubuntu 14.10 with kde plasma 5. What would be better option downloading a 14.10 with kde 4 and updating to kde 5 or downloading a 14.10 kde 5 tech preview?
[21:59] <lovesh> I am asking because on downloads page it says `Kubuntu 14.10 Plasma 4 — Latest Release, Stable and Supported`
[21:59] <lovesh> and `Kubuntu 14.10 Plasma 5 — Tech Preview`
[22:05] <murthy> lovesh: for trying it out live or to install?
[22:06] <lovesh> murthy: I want to install. also i am planning to use it for my daily use for development so i dont want to reinstall a new os soon
[22:06] <lovesh> in case the tech release does not work ou
[22:07] <murthy> lovesh: so you can take care if there is any issues at boot stage?
[22:08] <lovesh> issues at boot stage?
[22:08] <lovesh> what kind of issues?
[22:09] <lovesh> have you tried the plasma 5 tech release?
[22:09] <murthy> you know its in a  development stage, for example the login manager can fail, the last time I tried I tried it was crashing on the first boot
[22:10] <murthy> ya I tried and it was awesome!
[22:11] <murthy> the dedicated plasma release is my recommendation, instead of upgrading from plasma 4
[22:12] <murthy> If you can take care of any possible issues, you can try the weekly build
[22:13] <lovesh> i am planning to download the one thats mentioned on the kde website
[22:13] <lovesh> i mean kubuntu website
[22:13] <murthy> try it
[22:13] <lovesh> this one http://files.kde.org/snapshots/kubuntu-plasma5/kubuntu-plasma5-14.10-desktop-amd64.iso
[22:14] <lovesh> btw do you know a torrent link for this one?
[22:14] <valorie> that is what I am using, although I upgraded from 14.04 to get it
[22:14] <valorie> we don't have a torrent, but there is a metalink
[22:15] <murthy> lovesh: Try it live before you install, that way you can be little bit sure of the stability
[22:15] <valorie> http://files.kde.org/snapshots/kubuntu-plasma5-201410310825-i386.iso.mirrorlist
[22:16] <lovesh> yes but sometimes when i download large files on my internet connection they get corrupt so i prefer torrent
[22:16] <lovesh> valorie: that is a 32 bit iso
[22:17] <valorie> yeah
[22:17] <valorie> wrong page: http://files.kde.org/snapshots/kubuntu-plasma5/
[22:18] <lovesh> got it
[22:18] <valorie> click details for the metalink
[22:18] <murthy> lovesh: have you tried zsync?
[22:18] <lovesh> never heard of that
[22:19] <bailey> whats the similar channel to beast on irc?
[22:19] <valorie> zsync is pretty cool - it is like rsync for ISOs
[22:19] <valorie> checks the data and just downloads the bits you need
[22:20] <lovesh> ok
[22:20] <murthy> lovesh: Its a kind of download manager that has a resume support. you can resume after a disrupted internet connection
[22:21] <lovesh> murthy: i use download managers to download large file but in the past i have had few isos get corrupt. so i prefer torrent
[22:21] <valorie> metalinks pulls from all the available mirrors and merges the input
[22:21] <valorie> quasi-torrent
[22:21] <valorie> KDE doesn't run torrents, unfortunately
[22:22] <valorie> and ubuntu wouldn't host our plasma 5 ISO because that code is not yet in the archives
[22:22] <murthy> lovesh: but this zync software takes care of the software that you are downloading at bit level and checks its integrity at the end, so it is fool proof afik
[22:22] <valorie> we'll be putting it there soon, I believe
[22:22] <lovesh> valorie: ok. but the 14.04 and 14.10 have torrent links
[22:23] <valorie> right, that software is all in the archives
[22:23] <lovesh> valorie: ok
[22:23] <valorie> zsync like rsync is very secure
[22:23] <murthy> lovesh: believe me you wont ask for a torrent after you start using zsync
[22:23] <lovesh> murthy: ok.let me try that
[22:24] <valorie> well, torrents are great because you are serving your fellow users
[22:24] <murthy> lovesh: so do you know how to install?
[22:24] <murthy> lovesh: oops sorry
[22:24] <murthy> lovesh: I forgot that you are a developer
[22:24]  * valorie seeds all the *buntu torrents
[22:25] <lovesh> yes i use unetbootin or usb creator to make a bootable usb and then i install
[22:25] <murthy> lovesh: no I mean about the zsync
[22:25] <lovesh> i can google it
[22:25] <lovesh> i am doing it right now
[22:27] <murthy> lovesh: You may already know this but this the command for you to get the iso you wanted, " zsync http://files.kde.org/snapshots/kubuntu-plasma5/kubuntu-plasma5-14.10-desktop-amd64.iso.zsync"
[22:27] <lovesh> yes
[22:27] <lovesh> thanks for the help guys
[22:28] <murthy> lovesh: yw
[22:28] <lovesh> valorie: and murthy
[22:28]  * valorie is not a guy, but you are welcome
[22:28] <lovesh> thanks again
[22:33] <Roey> valorie:  so Plasma 5 should be done in time for Kubuntu 15.04?
[22:33] <Roey> I mean, I understand that this is the aim
[22:34] <valorie> yes, we've decided to go ahead
[22:34] <Roey> f|shy:  aww, nice nick :)
[22:34] <Roey> frogonwheels:  hey Froggy
[22:35] <Roey> ha, haha
[23:27] <bennypr0fane> Hi, how might I change the chararcter limit per line in Kate!
[23:27] <bennypr0fane> i mean: ?
[23:29] <bennypr0fane> I have a csv file with very long lines - I can't edit it in Kate because it'll open this file only write protected
[23:31] <valorie> that is possibly in the katerc file or so, somewhere in ~/.kde/share/
[23:31] <valorie> or config section in there
[23:31] <valorie> what version of kubuntu are you using, bennypr0fane?
[23:32] <bennypr0fane> valorie, 14.04
[23:33] <bennypr0fane> ~/.kde/share/config/katerc , got it
[23:34] <bennypr0fane> it's probably not "Word Wrap" though, that is set to 80
[23:34] <valorie> sometimes settings are in /share/apps too
[23:34] <bennypr0fane> my goal is to remove unwanted linebreaks from this file
[23:34] <valorie> and ~/.config and ~/.local are worth checking
[23:34] <valorie> devels are throwing things in there more often now
[23:34] <valorie> yes, I hear you
[23:35] <bennypr0fane> valorie: you think it's not in the katerc?
[23:35] <valorie> if you don't see it, it isn't there
[23:36] <valorie> there is a #kate however most devels are probably asleep as it is late in europe
[23:40] <bennypr0fane> valorie: yup, 0:39 =)
[23:40] <bennypr0fane> found it: Line Length Limit. How would I set that to unlimited?
[23:40] <valorie> for your future use:
[23:41] <valorie> !alis
[23:41] <valorie> what does that line say?
[23:41] <Bomber> Hello folks
[23:42] <bennypr0fane> Line Length Limit=4096 I'm trying with a blank
[23:42] <bennypr0fane> nah, that wasn't it
[23:43] <Bomber> I have a problem.   I just bought a wireless USB net card netgear wnda3100v2.  N600.     It's not being recognized by kubuntu
[23:44] <Bomber> Anyone have any ideas to get this going or should I try a different card?
[23:44] <bennypr0fane> Bomber: have you tried the driver manager?
[23:46] <Bomber> It only shows the video card I have installed.   Nothing about this network card
[23:46] <valorie> !wireless
[23:46] <andy123> I guess you already found this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1964173
[23:47] <valorie> I think there is some stuff in there about how to figure out what is supported
[23:50] <bennypr0fane> Bomber: and maybe this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/483066/how-do-i-install-drivers-for-a-netgear-wnda3100v2
[23:53] <bennypr0fane> which application would you use to clear up a messy .csv file i.e. removing variable descriptions and line breaks, so it becomes ready for statistics program?
[23:54] <bennypr0fane> valorie: it seems the katerc file resets itself to defaults after re-opening kate
[23:54] <valorie> bennypr0fane: I use kate for everything
[23:55] <valorie> but then some use emacs for everything
[23:55] <valorie> to be clear: I do not use kate for IRC
[23:55] <bennypr0fane> is it a problem if I edit katerc in Kate? :-)
[23:55] <valorie> lol
[23:55] <valorie> but you can use emacs for IRC!
[23:55] <valorie> oooo
[23:56] <valorie> bennypr0fane: possibly you have to edit that file while logged out of kde
[23:56] <valorie> which would suck a bit
[23:56] <bennypr0fane> emacs, vim, etc... no thanks! the stuff that you have to know everything about to use it. I'm an Ubuntu user for a reason...
[23:56] <valorie> indeed
[23:56] <bennypr0fane> valorie: yes it would suck, how am i supposed to do that?
[23:57] <valorie> sometimes those rc files work just fine if edited while logged in
[23:57] <Bomber> Thx reading now
[23:57] <valorie> you would have to use vi or nano or something in the console
[23:57] <valorie> :(
[23:58] <sgclark> nano is pretty user friendly
[23:59] <bennypr0fane> nano is fine for me
[23:59] <bennypr0fane> but I don't know how to get a console when logged out
[23:59] <sgclark> F2


[23:27] <fagan> Can anyone help me test a bug with gibber and facebook
[23:27] <fagan> I think I found a small bug but need a second opinion


[12:04] <jelkner> which he has taught me since i first met him were the 5 most important words in computing
[12:04] <jelkner> "did you back it up?"
[12:04] <ogra> hey, its ltsp :) you still can access the chroot
[12:04] <ogra> dont worry...
[12:05] <jelkner> so what do we do?
[12:05] <jelkner> i'm still logged in
[12:05] <ogra> in the client ?
[12:05] <jelkner> yes
[12:05] <jelkner> a different client
[12:05] <ogra> ah, ok...
[12:05] <jelkner> if i log out, i wont' be able to log in again
[12:06] <ogra> so what did you do exactly ?
[12:06] <jelkner> flint here.  I put the gzip stuff in the directory as per the instrux
[12:06] <ogra> ok
[12:07] <ogra> and installed python-gnome2 in the chroot environment ?
[12:07] <ogra> oh, the instructions are wrong i see...
[12:07] <ogra> do:
[12:07] <ogra> sudo chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/
[12:07] <ogra> sudo apt-get update
[12:08] <ogra> sudo apt-get install python-gnome2
[12:08] <ogra> thats should solve it
[12:09] <jelkner> oh got it...
[12:10] <ogra> instructions fixed for next time, sorry...
[12:12] <jelkner> sudo: unable to lookup edubuntu via gethostbyname()
[12:12] <jelkner>   remember this bug?
[12:14] <ogra> its no bug
[12:14] <ogra> its another error in my instructions, silly me... you are root after the chroot
[12:15] <ogra> so just drop the sudo (sorry, its late here)
[12:18] <jelkner> and the /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/apt/sources.list contains only the cd
[12:18] <jelkner> so i needed copy over the other one
[12:18] <jelkner> the new login rocks!
[12:18] <jelkner> Sauron is dead!
[12:18] <jelkner> log live edubuntu!
[12:19] <ogra> great
[12:20] <jelkner> nice touch ollie
[12:20] <ogra> it might be taht the pic is a bit moved, i didnt fix that yet and mdz wants me to work on the old ldm
[12:20] <ogra> so that will have to wait... but its *something* you can use that not worse than the other one :)
[12:21] <ogra> s/that not/taht is not/
[12:21] <ogra> and it took me only a short weekend to write :)
[12:23] <ogra> oh, and there are themes, look at them if you want your own ...
[12:24] <jelkner> where do I find the themes ollie?
[12:24] <ogra> (just set the link in /usr/share/ldm/themes to your default theme
[12:24] <ogra> )
[12:25] <ogra> (in the chroot that is)
[12:25] <jelkner> he had so much fun breaking it the first time, he wants to try again ;-)
[12:25] <jelkner> god help me!  (fllint :^)
[12:25] <ogra> a theme is a color file for the colors, a background image and two button icons
[12:25] <ogra> lol
[12:27] <jelkner> ollie jeff is gone so I am gone too!  Thanks again!!!!!  we meet tomorrow morning!
[12:27] <ogra> yup, bye
[01:15] <Mosheee> RAHALF...
[01:45] <Mosheee> I am the biggest internet-Troll ever!
[01:46] <Mosheee> Read my Sign with Bell Book and Candle!
[01:46] <Mosheee> Rescue me!
[03:28] <nybble> ttyl people
[08:29] <JaneW> morning
[08:39] <shaga> good morning
[08:39] <rejden> <moin
[08:42] <magnon> morning jane :)
[08:42] <magnon> JaneW: I was asking oliver, do you guys know any hardware vendors who have been particularily nice when it comes to edu-efforts so far, tuxlabs etc?
[08:48] <JaneW> hi magnon
[08:48] <JaneW> magnon: well tuxlabs have been pretty separate from edubuntu
[08:49] <JaneW> in that tuxlabs started way before edubuntu was even a twinkle in Mark's eye ;)
[08:49] <JaneW> I would need to ask the tuxlabs guys about h/w vendors
[08:49] <JaneW> afaik they have received donation of old and used equipment from compnaies etc around the world
[08:50] <JaneW> as far as edubuntu goes we have had one or 2 enquiries, but nothing solid yet...
[08:50] <JaneW> there are ppl wanting to invest in CSR programs, and see edubuntu as a way to deliver their donations in a useable format :)
[08:51] <JaneW> magnon: does that answer your question?
[08:54] <magnon> somewhat :)
[09:01] <JaneW> sorry to be a bit vauge
[09:01] <JaneW> tackle hughvoltage when he is around wrt tuxlab specifics...
[09:03] <magnon> well, it shouldn't be too hard to just call someone and find out what they can provide
[09:03] <magnon> I mean, who doesn't want their company logo on thousands of clients all over the country (give or take a few thousand :P)
[09:05] <JaneW> yes well we still need to release and prove ourselves...
[09:06] <JaneW> everybody loves the idea of edubuntu but until they see that it works, and is supportable, it's not on 1000's of clients
[09:06] <magnon> which is why I said give or take a few thousand
[09:06] <JaneW> in SA ppl are also fairly wary of good simaritans who swoop in and donate something and disappear and it quickly becomes a white elephant
[09:07] <magnon> as in "who knows"
[09:07] <JaneW> so support is a big factor
[09:07] <magnon> hey, that's what I live for :P
[09:07] <JaneW> also a big part of the cost (and effort) of implementing labs here is the physical security
[09:08] <JaneW> as well as other constraints like electricity, phone line, internet connection etc
[09:08] <magnon> h
[09:08] <JaneW> these thinsg are a given in the developed world
[09:08] <magnon> yeah*
[09:08] <magnon> you'd be surprised how often it isn't...
[09:08] <JaneW> oic
[09:08] <magnon> you can't take a fast net connection or electricity for granted
[09:08] <magnon> physical security is easier, of course
[09:09] <JaneW> so it's far more complex than just having a piece of hardware and some software
[09:09] <JaneW> then the other big problem, which ppl complain about, is lack of adequate training
[09:09] <magnon> but outside Oslo, electricity is unstable and phone lines downright suck :P
[09:10] <magnon> yup
[09:10] <JaneW> so the cool equipment in the lab, get pushed to the side and 'out of the way', because no one knows what to do with it.
[09:10] <magnon> that's what we're working on too
[09:10] <magnon> I found the best way to create interest
[09:10] <magnon> Applets :)
[09:10] <JaneW> heh
[09:10] <magnon> seriously. Teachers love applets
[09:11] <JaneW> yes the gimmicky things work well, I find most ppl learn PC literacy easilly once they are comforatble with one thing, whether is e-mail, a game, browsing etc. Once the fear is gone they are more open to try things and experiment a bit
[09:11] <magnon> not that it solves the problem of adequate knowledge about computing, but it makes them open
[09:11] <magnon> yeah
[09:12] <JaneW> also they need to find someting that interests them
[09:12] <magnon> there's always an applet ;)
[09:12] <JaneW> at a previous company I worked for users would get their PC and be terrified
[09:13] <JaneW> most were 40 somthing females never touched a PC before
[09:13] <magnon> hm
[09:13] <JaneW> with in a week they have all changed the fonts, colours, screen saver, wall paper etc...
[09:13] <magnon> they'd need to be at least 50something to never have used a pc before
[09:13] <magnon> here
[09:13] <JaneW> looked hideous, but it was THEIRS and they felt they knew it
[09:13] <magnon> hehe
[09:13] <JaneW> was a property company
[09:14] <magnon> wish I could have some people who never used a pc before, but were open minded
[09:14] <JaneW> previous house wives...
[09:14] <JaneW> my step dad was old
[09:14] <JaneW> he died earlier this year at 84
[09:14] <JaneW> and he would try just about anything
[09:14] <magnon> sorry to hear that
[09:15] <JaneW> I helped him to increase his font sizes about 2 weeks before he died, because he was battling to read the screen easily
[09:16] <JaneW> he e-mailed, and practised writing little programs, created spreadsheets and docs etc, it was amazing
[09:16] <magnon> wow
[09:16] <JaneW> he also tuaght me how to fix my car ;)
[09:17] <JaneW> not that I would bother to do much anymore, but at least I know enough now to know when the mechanic is ripping me off ;)
[09:18] <magnon> old people are such an underused resource.
[09:19] <JaneW> well the ubuntu devel guys have an expression 'could my granny do it'
[09:19] <magnon> grannies are way different though
[09:19] <JaneW> true
[09:19] <JaneW> but that's the acid test
[09:19] <JaneW> esp with pcs
[09:19] <magnon> me and my friend went to this pub, pretty brown place
[09:20] <JaneW> if your granny could do it it is technically EASY
[09:20] <magnon> met some guy, old sailor who had been in cosmetics (!)
[09:20] <magnon> true
[09:20] <magnon> had a long chat with him, four hours went by and we didn
[09:20] <magnon> 't notice - however, he told us about his business, we discussed politics, he told sailor stories, and I told him about wikipedia, online gaming and open source
[09:21] <JaneW> cool
[09:21] <JaneW> Sid was like that
[09:21] <JaneW> he was in the war
[09:21] <magnon> most open minded guy I ever met, guess he was sixty-something
[09:21] <JaneW> (lived through both, but fought in #2)
[09:21] <JaneW> all the way to CD, cell phones, programmming his pc and playing games (doom) etc!
[09:21] <magnon> hehe
[09:22] <magnon> we met another guy at the same place though, he asked about my friends t-shirt
[09:22] <magnon> it has the norwegian flag, uncolored, and it says "paint with your own colors", anti racist movement shirt
[09:23] <magnon> he's like "uhm, isn't that supposed to be red white and blue?"
[09:23] <magnon> my mate says "hey, it can be whatever you want!" and he mumbles "bah, youth are so naive..." and wanders off
[09:23] <magnon> that's what I meant with grannies are different
[09:24] <magnon> some grannies just don't WANT to send the email, or play Doom :P
[09:24] <JaneW> yes
[09:24] <JaneW> irritates me a lot
[09:24] <JaneW> and in her mind anything she doesn;t agree with is deemed rubbish
[09:25] <magnon> I get that a lot
[09:25] <JaneW> i.e. most things
[09:25] <magnon> be it politics or computers
[09:26] <magnon> want a price quote on the new Fire servers :)
[09:33] <magnon> hahaha. I love local sales offices.
[09:33] <magnon> "Hey, I wondered if the local pricing for the new Fire servers are ready, and when it is due to relase here?"
 :P
[09:53] <JaneW> heh
[11:56] <shaga> oh, I accidentally disconnect myself from freenode network
[11:56] <shaga> gdm/Xorg just said kosh after dist-upgrade and reboot :D
[11:57] <ogra> shaga, sounds like http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=12915
[12:00] <shaga> I hate browsing with elinks without framebuffer-resolutions, I'll look into it once this situation cools down a bit here at work
[12:01] <ogra> look if the mousedev modules s loaded
[12:17] <shaga> it's not, and amixer also gives some serious errors about missing files while shutting down..
[12:26] <ogra> try to run: sudo udevstart, that should give you the devices back, then you can run sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start to have a working X again
[12:28] <shaga> it works, thanks for the help. :)
[12:31] <ogra> :)
[01:26] <JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 35 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:33] <magnon> does anyone know if Sun Ray clients have ever been used against LTSP?
[01:35] <mark__> Hello edubuntu folk ... I'm having a little difficulty setting up edubuntu - is anyone available to chat a little?
[01:37] <magnon> ask away
[01:37] <mark__> hey - thanks :)
[01:38] <shaga> I'm not a geek with ubuntu at all but I'm watching ;)
[01:38] <mark__> Here's my setup - A server with 2 nics (1 internal 1 pci) - I have ltsp running with kubuntu - but it's been misbehaving
[01:38] <mark__> so I decided to try edubuntu -
[01:39] <mark__> install went ok - but I was a little confused that it asked for a static ip for the nic
[01:39] <mark__> that's my first question - can I force dhcp for that nic - since I have 2
[01:39] <mark__> 1 nic for internet - 1 nic for ltsp
[01:39] <ogra> mark__, ltsp needs a static ip
[01:39] <ogra> since you run a dhcp server on it
[01:40] <mark__> yeah - my 2nd nic takes care of that - but the install is forcing eth0 to be static
[01:40] <ogra> cat you just change the cables ?
[01:40] <ogra> *cant
[01:40] <mark__> :) -- I prefer not to ... but I suppose that is an option ...
[01:40] <mark__> ok - so we'll switch the cables ... question 2 ...
[01:41] <ogra> (i.e. does it matter which one you use for ltsp ? )
[01:41] <mark__> not really
[01:41] <mark__> Once it's all installed / running - I cannot, for the life of me, get the dhcp server to run
[01:42] <mark__> I copy over my dhcpd.conf and re-assign the address of the interface but it complains of no 'subnet declaration'
[01:42] <ogra> mark__, there is a bug in the ltsp setup that i hopefully have solved by the beginning of next week... if you accept the defaults everything will work fine
[01:42] <ogra> argh, dot do that
[01:42] <mark__> ah ... accept the defaults
[01:42] <ogra> ltsp brings its own dhcp.conf
[01:42] <mark__> oh - don't copy over the file :)
[01:42] <mark__> gotcha ..
[01:43] <ogra> thats the one that will be generated automatically by determining the static ip in the future
[01:43] <mark__> ogra - is edubuntu cool with setting up 2 nics?
[01:43] <mark__> I prefer to keep the internet traffic primarily on 1 and ltsp on the other - but it seems edubuntu only anticipates 1 nic?
[01:44] <ogra> its not prepared for 2 nics in this release, but its quite easy to set up the second post install
[01:44] <mark__> so - if I have 2 I just have to figure that eth0 will be ltsp/dhcp3-server and eth1 I can configure as my internet
[01:44] <ogra> yup
[01:45] <mark__> hrm ... I see -- so, let me recap for myself ...
[01:45] <ogra> just do a chicken install (hitting enter all the time)and configure your eth1 post install
[01:45] <JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 15 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:45] <ogra> that should give you a working environment immediately
[01:45] <mark__> hm -- that's pretty funny .. never heard 'chicken-install' before...
[01:46] <JaneW> ;)
[01:46] <ogra> put some seeds on the enter key and put a chicken in front of your kbd ;)
[01:46] <mark__> ok - I guess the only thing I have to fill in is the ip address for the static nick (and buy a chicken...)
[01:46] <ogra> yup
[01:46] <JaneW> mark__: preferably unfrozen!
[01:46] <mark__> :)
[01:47] <ogra> we consider if we ship chickens in future bxed releases ;)
[01:47] <mark__> the frozen ones can be so non-cooperative ...
[01:47] <ogra> and seeds indeed in a extra box ;)
[01:47] <mark__> send peeps -- then people are like 'oooh, they're so cute' - and then they won't mind when the chicken is pooping all over the house later...
[01:48] <shaga> :D
[01:48] <mark__> Content filtering -- are there any instructions on using squidguard (I think that's what the site lists)
[01:49] <mark__> I currently use Dansguardian with KDE and lock-down everything with the kioskadmin tool - but I like Gnome too much ...
[01:49] <mark__> except - one smart child and they've reset their proxy info ...
[01:50] <ogra> a good content filtering solution didnt make it into this release, just install squidguard... there are some notes i have to copy over from the ubuntu wiki
[01:50] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ContentFiltering
[01:50] <mark__> does squidguard do system - wide filtering?
[01:50] <ogra> ^^
[01:50] <mark__> oh - cool -- thanks
[01:50] <ogra> all http traffic... if you set it up as transparent proxy
[01:51] <ogra> we'll have a gui and metapackage in the next release with a easy configuration
[01:51] <mark__> ooo, gui ... gui's make me happy ...
[01:52] <ogra> if you want additional firewalling, i'd suggest firestarter for now its not good, but the best we have currently
[01:52] <mark__> I'm not too worried about firewalling -- I'm double nat'd and I turn the machine off after our after-school program
[01:53] <ogra> ok
[01:53] <mark__> with squid-guard ... does the install come with transparent proxy already set - or do I need to tinker (scanning the wiki now ...)
[01:53] <ogra> we have a ongoing firewalling bounty but that didnt make this release
[01:53] <ogra> its described in the wiki
[01:54] <mark__> shucks ...
[01:54] <ogra> you'll need to set up a blacklist manually, get it from squidguard.org....
[01:54] <mark__> to transparently proxy - I need those IPTables rules?
[01:54] <ogra> yup
[01:54] <mark__> that's cool ...
[01:54] <mark__> ok - and that's where the gui will come in in the future - to set iptables rules and the like...
[01:54] <shaga> I have disabled router-based nat/firewall and all that, I'm behind active connection. are there much leaks if I use software firewall?
[01:55] <ogra> mark__, yup
[01:55] <shaga> I haven't even thought about security, only good p2p connections :p
[01:55] <shaga> connectivity, easily..
[01:55] <ogra> you have a "real" ip on the server ?
[01:56] <ogra> (an external one assigned by your ISP ?)
[01:56] <shaga> I have real ip on my computer, I don't have any other computers(servers) connected just yet..
[01:56] <mark__> Thanks ogra ...
[01:57] <ogra> edubuntu comes with a good bunch of server software preinstalled, this will be accessible from the internet, i'd strongly suggest to enable NAT on your router again...
[01:58] <JaneW> **Reminder** update meeting in 3 mins in #ubuntu-meeting
[01:58] <ogra> ... if you want p2p capability your router should offer a method to forward just the ports you need for p2p
[01:58] <mark__> ogra - he could serve out ltsp to the world though ... that would be friendly :)
[01:58] <ogra> lol
[01:58] <ogra> i doubt booting would work (never tried it though)
[01:58] <shaga> okay, will do, thanks.. I've been thinking about it for some days now as I could use even udp.. :) time for a cig, damn I've worked hard for today..
[01:59] <mark__> is this a private meeting or can public schmoes like me 'listen' in?
[02:02] <JaneW> anyone is welcome
[02:03] <mark__> fun ... If I don't need to pack up right away I'll be over ... (I'm in a Panera ... I feel compelled to buy something now since I'm mooching free wifi)
[02:31] <jsgotangco> JaneW: busy with the wiki eh
[02:33] <ogra> jsgotangco, meeting ;)
[02:33] <jsgotangco> gaahhh
[03:26] <Yagisan> ogra: If I install edbuntu amd64 on my server, do I need to do anything special for my i386 clients to set them up ?
[03:27] <ogra> ltsp currently has no multiarch feature.... you'd have to do a i386 install on the server too...
[03:27] <ogra> i'm not sure if mdz planned to add this before release...
[03:27] <Yagisan> really
[03:27] <Yagisan> damm
[03:27] <ogra> it will be there eventually, but needs some tweakage in the install scripts...
[03:28] <ogra> and i'm not sure if we will see it before release
[03:28] <Yagisan> ok
[03:29] <Yagisan> I'll grab the i386 iso to test. Whats quicker torrent or http ?
[03:29] <ogra> i'm not even sure how many people grab the torrent yet, but i guess there are not many so the speed might be the same...
[03:30] <shaga> are there problems with the speed?
[03:30] <shaga> I might start seed-help
[03:30] <Yagisan> I'll grab the torrent then
[03:31] <ogra> shaga, i didnt test the torrent yet ...
[03:31] <shaga> I'll see how it runs
[03:31] <ogra> if you do, reeport errors ere, i'll care for it
[03:33] <Yagisan> ok - the last time I did a ltsp install was back with ltsp 3. Is there anything I should look out for ?
[03:33] <ogra> Yagisan, http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting :)
[03:34] <shaga> I'm only getting 2-3kb/s
[03:34] <Yagisan> I get 809 bytes on torrent :(
[03:34] <shaga> but it seems that 6 are seedonly, and no other downloads
[03:34] <ogra> if you follow that and leave the defaults as is during install (you can change them post install), it should work out of the box
[03:34] <shaga> quite strange
[03:34] <shaga> oh, there are 9 downloading as it seems
[03:34] <jsgotangco> ogra: no more dhcp config?
[03:34] <ogra> thats what i suspected, not enough users for the torrent
[03:34] <Yagisan> I have port forwarding set up, and don't use 6881
[03:34] <Yagisan> :(
[03:34] <shaga> I'll help with the seeding
[03:35] <shaga> I only tested to download to different folder
[03:35] <ogra> jsgotangco, not completely, but it works with the defaults...
[03:35] <jsgotangco> ogra: please fill up the release notes as it progresses at your free time =)
[03:35] <ogra> jsgotangco, i still need to write the dynamically generation of the dhcp.conf
[03:35] <jsgotangco> there's not much technical details i can put
[03:35] <ogra> i'll do
[03:35] <jsgotangco> since you're the one who's most involved with development
[03:36] <Yagisan> I've a slightly technical question
[03:36] <ogra> lol
[03:36] <ogra> jsgotangco, most involved is funny...
[03:36] <Yagisan> opengl - is it render client side or server side ?
[03:36] <ogra> edubuntu is a one man show wrt development
[03:36] <ogra> client side indeed
[03:36] <sivang> hi all
[03:36] <ogra> but the datsa still needs to go through the net
[03:37] <sivang> I am downloading the preview right now, as per Jane's email for requesting tester
[03:37] <sivang> s
[03:37] <sivang> however, BitTorrent is SO SLOW...
[03:37] <ogra> sivang, rather take the daily
[03:37] <ogra> there were some improvements...
[03:37] <Yagisan> so the geforce 4 in my thin client will do all the opengl work ?
[03:37] <jsgotangco> yes
[03:37] <magnon> bah, just leech iso :)
[03:38] <ogra> Yagisan, yup... the Xserver runs locally on the client, everything else comes form the server
[03:38] <Yagisan> heh - I'm upping the torrent at 32k, and getting 4k down
[03:38] <shaga> I'm seeding it 30kB/s and it's still going up
[03:39] <Yagisan> thanks ogra. It helps to test my deng if it has client side opengl
[03:39] <ogra> :)
[03:39] <Yagisan> time to some test my first ebay pentium 2
[03:39] <sivang> ogra: ok, now downloading the daily :)
[03:39] <Yagisan> s/some/smoke/
[03:39] <sivang> magnon: leeching the iso as you suggested
[03:40] <shaga> I haven't tested much opengl in edubuntu yet with my gf6600gt pci/e
[03:40] <Yagisan> finally 81k
[03:40] <Yagisan> we have etherboot ?
[03:41] <Yagisan> none of my net cards are pxe
[03:42] <magnon> sivang: it can be excused for testing imo ;)
[03:42] <ogra> Yagisan, ouch...
[03:42] <ogra> Yagisan, we have etherboot, but nobody has tested it at all yet
[03:42] <sivang> magnon: k
[03:42] <Yagisan> reatlek 8139, amd pcnet32 thanks :)
[03:42] <Yagisan> damm can't type today
[03:50] <Yagisan> yes - it passed the smoke test :)
[03:52] <ogra> http://edubuntu.org/EdubuntuTesting updated with the latest instructions :)
[03:53] <Yagisan> thanks
[03:53] <Yagisan> my wife will get an interesting thin client - P2 233 64MB + Geforce 4MX 440 64MB
[03:53] <Yagisan> I love spare parts
[03:54] <ogra> sounds good for a thin client
[03:55] <Yagisan> I'm planning to use it for my business
[03:55] <Yagisan> I have one overpowered box
[03:55] <Yagisan> and several "relics"
[03:55] <magnon> hehehe
[03:56] <ogra> perfect
[03:56] <magnon> I'm still chuckling over the poor Sun lady
[03:56] <magnon> "Sun... fire? servers? uhm..."
[03:57] <Yagisan> 64bit kernel should be fine on i386 (for the server) ?
[03:58] <Yagisan> don't want to lose my 64bit chroots for testing
[03:58] <ogra> hmm, unlikely, but try it...
[03:59] <ogra> the libc and other stuff at least needs to be 64bit too... i doubt it will work mixed up
[03:59] <Yagisan> really ?
[03:59] <ogra> yup
[03:59] <Yagisan> I thought it would be fine with i386 support in kernel
[03:59] <Yagisan> thats how I test deng
[03:59] <ogra> else we wouldnt have probs with things ike flash/firefox on amd64
[04:00] <ogra> you could just run the 32bit version...
[04:00] <ogra> but running 32bit ff in a 64bit system is a PITA...
[04:01] <ogra> and requires a lot of manual work
[04:01] <Yagisan> I was just interested in a 64bit kernel
[04:01] <Yagisan> I can change userland to 32bit
[04:01] <ogra> as i said, try it, but i doubt it will work
[04:01] <Yagisan> will give it a go soon
[04:02] <Yagisan> just need to get a keyboard + monitor for the 1s client
[04:03] <magnon> ogra: Flash isn't working in 64bit environments?
[04:03] <ogra> magnon, macromedia doesnt offer t
[04:03] <ogra> it
[04:04] <Yagisan> personally - I don't miss flash. The web has less ads without it
[04:04] <magnon> Doh
[04:05] <ogra> norway does some (lots ? ) of its school tests in flash
[04:05] <magnon> politically, those school tests can go hang themselves
[04:05] <magnon> and all
[04:05] <magnon> shoot any supporters etc.
[04:05] <magnon> anything more contra-educative... sigh
[04:05] <ogra> yes, but its a decision blocker for lnux i think...
[04:05] <ogra> linux even
[04:06] <magnon> Flash should be a decision blocker for Flash
[04:06] <ogra> heh
[04:06] <magnon> there's no a11y, and it's a pain to support
[04:06] <magnon> but again, bureaucrats aren't good at these things anyway
[04:07] <magnon> most teachers who raise concern about flash would probably be happy if I said it made them unable to take those national tests :P
[04:08] <Yagisan> no issues with nvidia or ati drivers on clients ?
[04:09] <magnon> my guess is that those tests will disappear now that we got a new govt
[04:09] <magnon> Yagisan: I would think that they work fine
[04:10] <ogra> hmm, there may besome out of sync prob with the restricted drivers... its a normal problem in our development releases...
[04:10] <Yagisan> ok. I'd just like to check as I haven't seen any notes
[04:11] <Yagisan> why nfs ?
[04:13] <ogra> because its common ?
[04:14] <ogra> we already have a complete new shiny ltsp that doesnt use X exports...
[04:14] <ogra> i want to try to switch to a cluster filesstem for dapper... until the nfs is stable and proven to be good
[04:14] <ogra> s/until the/until then/
[04:15] <Yagisan> ok - nfs 2 ? 3 ?
[04:15] <ogra> 3
[04:15] <ogra> the default in the current kernel
[04:15] <Yagisan> (I ask, because I have to start analysing the security implications of these choices)
[04:15] <Yagisan> ok - 2
[04:16] <ogra> oh
[04:16] <Yagisan> my job. I'm a security consultant
[04:16] <Yagisan> and I'm building a new network for myself
[04:16] <ogra> oh, then you 'll love our ltsp :)
[04:16] <Yagisan> I'd like to show it to clients as an alternative to windows
[04:17] <ogra> originally tsp uses X over tcp... thats security hell
[04:17] <Yagisan> I liked ltsp when I last used it - but it was a PITA to keep secure
[04:17] <Yagisan> and updated
[04:18] <ogra> we use ssh tunnels instead and its fully pgradeable
[04:18] <ogra> man my keyboard sucks
[04:18] <Yagisan> excellent
[04:18] <Yagisan> blowfish ?
[04:18] <Yagisan> or aes ?
[04:18] <ogra> nfs is the only thing that really needs improvement...
[04:18] <ogra> both i think... i'd have to look at the code
[04:19] <Yagisan> what about eg samba (yes I know it has a history)
[04:19] <Yagisan> I meant by default - aes or blowfish
[04:19] <ogra> its there, but unconfigured yet... i think about a open directory for sharing files through it
[04:19] <Yagisan> I like blowfish by default with openvpn - it has the highest throughput on old pcs
[04:20] <ogra> 'blowfish-cbc,aes128-cbc,3des-cbc'
[04:20] <Yagisan> thanks
[04:20] <ogra> thats from the login manager
[04:20] <Yagisan> excuse me - mt little girl is climbing in my thin clients
[04:20] <ogra> heh
[04:25] <Yagisan> back - she's only 18 months - but she loves my computers
[04:26] <Yagisan> ok - logins and x are tunneled over shh ?
[04:26] <Yagisan> ssh
[04:28] <ogra> all of ltsp is tunneled
[04:28] <ogra> except nfs
[04:30] <Yagisan> ok. if you use smb it should be possible to send that over ssh as well
[04:30] <Yagisan> otherwise ipsec for local lan
[04:31] <ogra> but thats something for dapper...
[04:31] <ogra> currently i have to concentrate getting the release ready and fix the remaining bugs...
[04:31] <ogra> there wont be much architectural changes anymore
[04:32] <Yagisan> no worries - I'd like to get my network up and running asap too
[04:32] <Yagisan> but it is possible - right ?
[04:32] <ogra> but feel free to consult here for dappers security issues :)
[04:33] <ogra> i love every helping hint i can get to make it perfect
[04:33] <Yagisan> I'd be interested in doing a security audit of it
[04:33] <ogra> (i havent the expectation to have the first release perfect, its just the base we build on in the future)
[04:33] <Yagisan> I already found one ubuntu bug without really looking
[04:33] <ogra> heh, thats easy in the current state :)
[04:34] <Yagisan> heh - it was an information disclosure
[04:34] <ogra> oh
[04:34] <Yagisan> pitti - fixed it for breezy after I mentioned it at UDU
[04:34] <Yagisan> but nobody fixed hoary as far as I can tell
[04:52] <Yagisan> out of curiosity - if I have a breezy chroot - just installing the ltsp-server package is enough to start testing right ?
[04:53] <ogra_> nope
[04:53] <ogra_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinkClientHowto
[04:54] <ogra_> oops https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientHowto
[04:55] <ogra_> you install ltsp-server-standalone and run sudo ltsp-build-client
[04:57] <Yagisan> ok. I allready have a dhcp server so I should be ok
[04:57] <Yagisan> how are "local apps" handled now ?
[04:58] <ogra> there are none currently...
[04:58] <ogra> only the xserver
[04:59] <Yagisan> lots of fun for me then
[04:59] <ogra> it ssh's into the server and runs a gnome-session there (or rather what Xsession it finds)
[04:59] <Yagisan> dnet anyone :)
[05:26] <MarkG24> ogra - I re-installed edubuntu -- dhcp3-server setup fine (using 1 nic) and now I'm getting ...error: not a valid image messages on the clients ...
[05:28] <ogra> MarkG24, what did you do exactly ?
[05:28] <MarkG24> The chicken install ...
[05:28] <ogra> hmm, that should work
[05:29] <MarkG24> it says "Loading <IP_ADDRESS>:/ltsp/pxelinux.0 ...error
[05:29] <ogra> sounds a bit like you should run sudo ltsp-update-kernels , try that
[05:29] <MarkG24> I'm booting the clients from rom-o-matic boot disks ... does that make a difference?
[05:30] <ogra> hmm, i havent tested with that yet, but either your kernel image is broken or the tftpd isnt running...
[05:31] <MarkG24> Hrm ... had trouble with tftpd in the past .... is that run through init.d or xinetd?
[05:31] <ogra> inetd
[05:31] <ogra> we dont use xinetd...
[05:31] <MarkG24> erm . yeah - that's what I meant ... inetd :)
[05:31] <ogra> but if you did the default install, i should have been installed fne
[05:31] <ogra> fine
[05:32] <MarkG24> it looks like it's fine ... I wonder if it's the 'pxe' image thing in conjunction with my boot floppies
[05:32] <MarkG24> where are the boot images kept? -- I don't see /tftpboot
[05:33] <rickfitz> not sure, but I thought etherboot needed another image (not pxe)
[05:33] <ogra> they are in /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/
[05:33] <rickfitz> thinking back to using ltsp4 in the past
[05:33] <MarkG24> rickfitz - I'll bet you're right ...
[05:34] <ogra> probably... as i said, i havent tested etherboot here yet
[05:34] <rickfitz> it was next on my list of things to check...
[05:34] <MarkG24> I see -- let me make a quick change and see if it works ...
[05:35] <MarkG24> um ... where' s the dhcpd.conf file ?
[05:35] <ogra> /etc/ltsp
[05:36] <MarkG24> ok :)
[05:36] <ogra> :)
[05:36] <MarkG24> is it possible to pass 2 filenames?  (in case a pxe client is present along with an etherboot one)?
[05:37] <ogra> hmm, try it? i doubt it...
[05:38] <rickfitz> iirc you need to set up groups by mac address, and specify the boot image for each
[05:38] <ogra> you can make up groups though...
[05:38] <MarkG24> rickfitz - that's what I've done in the past - I like having them just grab their own address though ...
[05:38] <ogra> but that doesnt give you two different filenames...
[05:40] <MarkG24> I don't have any pxe clients - so I commented out the pxe line and added the vmlinuz
[05:40] <MarkG24> hrm -- same error with the other image file ...
[05:42] <ogra> did you run the update-kernels coomand ?
[05:42] <MarkG24> yeah
[05:42] <rickfitz> MarkG24: what's the error msg?
[05:43] <MarkG24> one sec ...
[05:43] <MarkG24> Loading <IP_ADDRESS>:/ltsp/vmlinuz-2.6.12-8-386 ...error: not a valid image. Unable to load file
[05:43] <ogra> oh, in any case you need to load the initrd
[05:44] <ogra> that holds all the boot code
[05:44] <MarkG24> heh... ok, that's a bit embarassing ... let me try again ...
[05:48] <MarkG24> Loading <IP_ADDRESS>:/ltsp/initrd.img-2.6.12-8-386 ...error: not a valid image. Unable to load file
[05:49] <ogra> hmm... most likely you'll nee dboth, the vmlinuz and the initrd... but i have no real idea about how to define that for etherboot images
[05:50] <ogra> vmlinuz ro initrd=initrd.img
[05:50] <ogra> thats the boot commandline for pxe
[05:50] <ogra> you somehow need to get the initrd option passed to the kernel on boot
[05:50] <MarkG24> hmmm ...
[05:53] <MarkG24> ogra - is there a -s switch with tfpt
[05:53] <MarkG24> tftp (that is)
[05:53] <ogra> yup
[05:54] <ogra> its used by default (see inetd.conf)
[05:54] <MarkG24> ok ...
[05:54] <Yagisan> ogra: how would one go about building new kernels for the think clients - make-kpkg ?
[05:55] <ogra> i wouldnt suggest to do that, but make-kpkg and mkinitramfs will be needed
[05:56] <Yagisan> ogra: yeah - but pax and grsec aren't in ubuntu's kernel
[05:57] <ogra> ah, i forgot you are the security guy :)
[05:58] <ogra> i think it was planned to hae a kernel image with selinux stuff in universe, but the guy who did much of the work behaves like an arse to the rest of the security team, i think it drowned in flames...
[05:58] <Yagisan> ogra: believe me - If I get grsec to patch nice into ubuntus kernel I'll stick it in revu
[05:58] <Yagisan> I met most of the sec team at UDU
[05:58] <Yagisan> nice guys
[05:58] <ogra> Yagisan, you didnt meet trulux
[05:59] <Yagisan> I promissed pitti I would do a comparision between pax and exec sheild for him
[05:59] <Yagisan> but haven't had the time
[05:59] <ogra> who runs around in the channels and randomly calls people fachist assholes
[05:59] <Yagisan> s/asshole/arsehole
[06:00] <ogra> yes :)
[06:00] <markg> Looks like I picked a good time to return ...
[06:00] <ogra> heh
[06:00] <Yagisan> have you seen the ubuntu kernels debian rules !!
[06:01] <ogra> i was several times near to ban him in -motu ...
[06:01] <ogra> nope, but i guess they are huge....
[06:01] <ogra> i stopped compiling my own kernels since warty :)
[06:01] <Yagisan> lets just say - I'm glad I'm not the maintainer
[06:02] <ogra> yes, fabbione did a great job ...
[06:02] <Yagisan> but it doesn't look easy to add new patches without a deep understanding
[06:02] <Yagisan> and it needs more then 11G to build
[06:02] <ogra> there should be a patches subdir
[06:02] <ogra> use dpatch and add your patch to 00list-<version>
[06:02] <Yagisan> (it broke my pbuilder - till I pointed it at a 600G RAID to build)
[06:03] <ogra> phew
[06:03] <Yagisan> fabbione said "only about 500M per kernel"
[06:03] <Yagisan> pbuilder and my tmpfs disagree
[06:04] <Yagisan> linux-restricted-modules is worse
[06:04] <Yagisan> ogra: were you at UDU ?
[06:04] <ogra> yup
[06:05] <Yagisan> I may have met you then
[06:05] <Yagisan> I know I was unique
[06:05] <Yagisan> I was the only person "without" a laptop
[06:07] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img006.jpeg.html
[06:07] <ogra> thats me on the terrace...
[06:07] <ogra> i was one of the frequent smokers :)
[06:07] <ogra> s/was/am/
[06:07] <magnon> ogra: I'll join you out there :p
[06:11] <Yagisan> I think I did me you then
[06:11] <ogra> :)
[06:11] <Yagisan> s/me/meet
[06:11] <Yagisan> I think I found a pic of me
[06:11] <Yagisan> I just get my other half to confirm it
[06:13] <markg> ogra - it looks like maybe you can do an 'if' 'else' kind of thing for PXEClient and Etherboot ...
[06:13] <Yagisan> http://www.grawert.net/udu-gallery/img042.jpeg
[06:13] <ogra> oh, if you got a working setup, tell me...
[06:13] <Yagisan> I think that may be me on the left
[06:14] <ogra> on the sofa ?
[06:14] <Yagisan> blue jeans - green seat
[06:14] <Yagisan> either that - or someone that looks a lot like me
[06:14] <markg> ogra - almost ... just trying now ...
[06:16] <ogra> from left to right i see daf, tseng, Keybuk, someone i dont know behind Keybuk, dilinger leaning at the wall, jdub, mako with backpack, Kinnison and mpool
[06:16] <ogra> so i thought you might be the guy behind Keybuk on the sofa...
[06:16] <ogra> but your description sounds like you look like tseng then :)
[06:17] <Yagisan> Is it good that I look similar to tseng ??
[06:17] <ogra> depends, ask tseng whom he owes money :)
[06:17] <Yagisan> the way to check is if you have a higher res pic - I have a wedding ring that should appear
[06:18] <Yagisan> tseng british ?
[06:18] <ogra> nope, pennsylvania
[06:18] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder
[06:18] <ogra> there are more gallerys
[06:18] <ogra> (at the bottom)
[06:19] <Yagisan> this is kind of interesting - seeing people that look very similar
[06:22] <markg> who's pennsylvania??
[06:22] <markg> who's pennsylvanian??
[06:22] <ogra> tsen
[06:22] <ogra> g
[06:23] <ogra> our mono maintainer
[06:23] <markg> do you happen to know which part (me --> Hanover, PA)
[06:23] <ogra> nope, but ask him in -devel or -motu, he's around every day there
[06:23] <ogra> heh, i come from Hanover too :)
[06:24] <markg> too cool ... I'll try to remember to do that ... I suppose you're the original Hanover ...
[06:24] <markg> We have a plaque outside of town that says, "Named after Hanover, Germany" --
[06:24] <ogra> but a little bit more eastern *G*, hannover-> hermany
[06:24] <ogra> cool
[06:24] <markg> interesting
[06:24] <ogra> germany indeed
[06:25] <ogra> my typing sucks today
[06:27] <Yagisan> heh - it would be easier to find me if I didn't wear an Ubuntu T-Shirt
[06:27] <ogra> lol
[06:27] <ogra> try here: http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0338?full=1
[06:28] <markg> ogra - what's that ltsp-update kernel command?
[06:30] <markg> nevermind - found it
[06:30] <ogra> /usr/sbin/ltsp-update-kernels
[06:31] <Yagisan> my wife thinks this may be me http://gallery.linuxguru.net/UbuntuDownUnder-4-2005/img_0311
[06:31] <Yagisan> she says I'm a lazy bastard that doesn't shave
[06:32] <ogra> hmm, thats bradb
[06:32] <ogra> (if you meant the guy with the cap)
[06:33] <Yagisan> cool - yet another person I look similar too
[06:33] <Yagisan> this is actually kinda scary
[06:33] <markg> Yagisan - I prefer to look at not shaving as a sign of thoughtfulness
[06:34] <markg> ogra - got it! (mostly)  I had to install the mknbi - then it created a etherboot image
[06:35] <markg> now it boots - get's to BusyBox - but no X ... hmmm ...
[06:35] <ogra> no errors ?
[06:35] <ogra> it should tell you whats wrong...
[06:35] <markg> it says ...  /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
[06:35] <Yagisan> markg: unfortunately my wife disagrees :(  (and oddly enough so do customers)
[06:35] <ogra> would you mind to write on the wiki what you did to get etherboot running ?
[06:36] <markg> Yagisan -- let's start a support group - I hate shaving ...
[06:36] <ogra> i like it .... (once every week if it gets itchy)
[06:36] <markg> ogra - I suppose I could do that ... (yes .. I do hate the itch too ...)
[06:37] <markg> ok - here's what I didn't see --  mount: Mounting /root/dev on /dev/.static/dev failed: No such file or directory
[06:37] <ogra> markg, that'd be awesome ... i'll try to get it automated then in the installer...
[06:37] <Yagisan> I don't actually itch, but I hate shaving
[06:37] <ogra> hmm, something is wrong with the initramfs
[06:37] <Yagisan> I wonder if that "laser hair removal" I see on TV would actually work ...
[06:37] <markg> ogra -- the only thing it depends on is mknbi which I had to enable universe for ...
[06:38] <markg> Yagisan -- I can see it now, "What are all those scars on your face? -- Oh, they're from my Laser Shaver (TM)"
[06:38] <ogra> yup, i know... i tried to get t in main, but it was totally broken back then
[06:38] <markg> I see ... so my initramfs isn't cooperating -- wonder if it's a result of using an etherboot image rather than pxe ...
[06:39] <ogra> it shouldnt... they both should use the same kernel and initramfs
[06:39] <markg> hmmm ... let me double check something ...
[06:39] <ogra> no matter how they boot
[06:40] <ogra> and you obviously have a working kernel ... the remounting of /dev happens if the nfs root was mounted
[06:42] <markg> should there be an address for the roosever:
[06:42] <markg> mine is <IP_ADDRESS> rootpath:
[06:43] <ogra> hmm, it should point to the nfs server indeed
[06:43] <ogra> but then you would see an nfs error
[06:47] <Yagisan> I'm off to bed now (it's almost 3am here). I'll test out the systems tomorrow
[06:47] <ogra> yup, night... sleep well :)
[09:28] <rickfitz> Just installed daily 20050921. Puzzled by updates. Update notifier shows 36 packages to update. Synaptic says OOo2-1.9.125 is installed, offers upgrade to 1.9.129. But 1.9.129 was automatically downloaded during install, and is definately installed. So apt seems to be out of sync with the installation. (This is straight after a default install). Anyone?
[09:36] <ogra> i guess they are in the archive cache but not installed...
[09:37] <ogra> also note that there may be a higher ubuntuX revision available, there was a lot movement with ooo these days (today too)
[09:37] <rickfitz> Nope. If I run OOo Help-About, it says it's 1.9.129
[09:38] <ogra> yes, but that isnt the package version nummmber
[09:38] <ogra> 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu1
[09:39] <ogra> so you ight have a 1.9.129-0.1ubuntu1-0ubuntu0 installed for example...
[09:39] <rickfitz> Oh. Now I'm really confused!
[09:39] <ogra> and ooo currently gets updates nearly daily
[09:40] <rickfitz> I was just surpised to have 36 updates on the current daily build.
[09:40] <ogra> the version is not necessarily the revision ....
[09:40] <ogra> the daily build is done around 2am UTC so its nearly a day old now :)
[09:42] <ogra> if you monitor the breezy-changes mailing list, you can see the updates hot the build server...
[09:42] <ogra> hit even
[09:42] <rickfitz> OK Thanks
[09:49] <rickfitz> ogra: More detailed check - some of OOo is at 125, other bits at 129. Maybe the build came halfway through an update? No problem, I'll do the updates. Thanks again.
[09:50] <ogra> yup :)


[20:20] <adom> marcoceppi: sorry for late response. busy at work yesterday. um yeah i've heard of gpg/pgp keys, they're used for encrypting files mostly, right?
[20:21] <marcoceppi> adom: yes, but how do you know if a PGP key belongs to who it says it does?
[20:21] <marcoceppi> adom: to achieve this, key signing parties are a way to build trust. You meet in real life with form of photo id and your key
[20:22] <marcoceppi> you have others sign your key and you sign others
[20:22] <marcoceppi> signing indicates that you met that person in real life and they are who they say they are
[20:22] <marcoceppi> and so the web of trust grows