[02:52] <bradleyayerswork> hi
[02:53] <bradleyayerswork> I'd like to know the difference between "user jobs" and "system jobs"
[02:54] <bradleyayerswork> is it just having a .init in home directory?
[03:08] <bradleyayerswork> also, is it possible upgrade upstart on ubuntu 10.04?
[03:32] <vaxerdec> you could always pull trunk and build it.  or the release version, 1.3
[03:43] <bradleyayerswork> and is there any documentation around user jobs?
[03:47] <vaxerdec> i dont know if the cookbook contains it.  but it seems to be shaping up quite nicely
[03:48] <vaxerdec> i would not be surprised if they had documented it there
[03:49] <vaxerdec> based on the sounds of it, just allowed users to make event triggers over dbus.  i don't know how they write the files to /etc/init
[03:50] <vaxerdec> perhaps, they just write them in memory somehow into the dbus and it handles that on their behalf? this is just wild speculation.
[03:51] <vaxerdec> i know dbus has some security models which allow it to broker access to privileged stuff.  no idea how they are using it... i am strong advocate of ripping out anything with the word "dbus" in it and throwing it in the garbage :)
[03:55] <vaxerdec> i'm trying to figure out a way to get all /etc/init/*.conf from whatever serves as ubuntu trunk.  if you have a suggestion, please let me know...
[04:03] <bradleyayerswork> i want to use upstart to manage web app processes, and user jobs "sound" like what i want, but it isn't documented :(
[04:04] <bradleyayerswork> the only mention is "As such, all system job configuration files must live in or below /etc/init (although user jobs can live in other locations)."
[04:05] <bradleyayerswork> vaxerdec: as in, you just want to download the job files?
[04:06] <bradleyayerswork> ah the man page has some stuff
[04:07] <bradleyayerswork> " Any user can create user jobs, but that user can control only jobs they create."
[04:08] <bradleyayerswork> but what if i made something that just hooked the 'starting' event and blocked, causing it to never start
[04:08] <vaxerdec> yes.
[04:08] <bradleyayerswork> that is concerning
[04:09] <bradleyayerswork> i suppose that's just a messy problem to get around
[04:10] <vaxerdec> i am using fedora and their upstarts are just a half-aborted attempt before they switched to systemd (yuck), they never ported to native upstart.  ubuntu apparently claims they have ported the majority of their init scripts to native upstart.  so, i want to use those as a conversion base for my own efforts (I am using upstat with Fedora, because I hate systemd)
[04:11] <vaxerdec> yeah, well, even though they can schedule, i don't think they wil be escalating their privilges
[04:12] <vaxerdec> it probably lets you specify a filename or directory then somehow.  and/or forces you to use your home dir
[04:15] <bradleyayerswork> i just meant having "start on starting shutdown; script while 1 end script" etc
[04:17] <vaxerdec> right but where do you put those? in a file. where do you put that?
[04:18] <bradleyayerswork> in ~/.init/
[04:18] <bradleyayerswork> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/oneiric/man5/init.5.html
[04:18] <vaxerdec> clearly they don't set the sticky bit on /etc/init and call it a day :) although they may as well since it sounds from the "any user can..." that it's already DoS prone... but perhaps they rate limit.
[04:18] <bradleyayerswork> search "User jobs"
[04:18] <bradleyayerswork> there's a section
[04:18] <vaxerdec> ah.  yes, the home dir then.  but, it might just take an arbitrary path.
[04:19] <vaxerdec> i don't have the manual page.  i don't access to any ubuntu systems.
[04:19] <vaxerdec> i will be sure to grab that though when i get those others from the scm repo
[04:19] <vaxerdec> along with that other one that lists those pseudo-events
[04:19] <vaxerdec> what is it? i forget.  something.7
[04:20] <vaxerdec> something-else.7
[04:20] <vaxerdec> it's just a table with all those virtual events like network-started
[04:21] <vaxerdec> oh, you gave me a URL :)
[04:22] <vaxerdec> ah yes, upstart-events.7
[04:25] <vaxerdec> wait... there is no longer a "console syslog" ? only "owner" and "output?"
[04:25] <bradleyayerswork> i don't know much about console
[04:26] <vaxerdec> ahhh they have a udev bridge now
[04:27] <bradleyayerswork> you seem to know more about this than me :P
[04:28] <vaxerdec> i'm not sure i like it though... threatens to mix purposes.  i am wary that it will come out looking like systemd, please no :)
[04:29] <vaxerdec> it's always tempting to roll other stuff in to your project.  just look what happened to that poor lennart fellow... he sold himself to the devil, clearly.
[04:29] <vaxerdec> at least it's "only" a bridge.  but that encourages more use of dbus which i think is just all bad in this layer.
[04:30] <bradleyayerswork> i'm not even familiar with d-bus, so i can't really comment :/
[04:31] <vaxerdec> it's just an ipc bus designed for the desktop/gui/crap layer that some people (like redhat and systemd fools) will try to move lower in the stack and have everyone relying on their superfluous crap.
[04:32] <vaxerdec> i mean, not as a business tactic... just some arrogant developers who think they understand the One True Way but clearly haven't been using unix very long or, if so, learned about its philosophy...
[04:36] <vaxerdec> wait... does udev repeat the events over dbus? or are they getting them over netlink or something?
[04:39] <vaxerdec> wow, just reading over some of these changes since 0.6... this has come a long way.  these guys are doing wonderful job with this.
[04:40] <vaxerdec> documentation is getting fleshed out nicely too.
[04:41] <bradleyayerswork> upstart >0.6 changes you mean?
[04:41] <vaxerdec> eh? yeah.  i mean since version 0.6.  they are at 1.3 now for the release track.
[04:41] <bradleyayerswork> yeah
[04:42] <bradleyayerswork> ubuntu 10.04 has 0.6 :(
[04:42] <vaxerdec> go to 10.10
[04:42] <vaxerdec> not sure what version they have, probably 1.2
[04:42] <vaxerdec> even my fedora system has 1.2 :)
[04:42] <vaxerdec> and they abandoned upstart.
[04:42] <vaxerdec> the fools.
[04:42] <vaxerdec> well, i take that back.  it's still in RHEL
[04:42] <bradleyayerswork> really? in favour of what?
[04:42] <vaxerdec> systemd!
[04:43] <bradleyayerswork> :O
[04:43] <vaxerdec> the thing i have been talking about
[04:43] <bradleyayerswork> yup
[04:43] <bradleyayerswork> i made a bunch of changes to the upstart cookbook that i need to submit
[04:43] <vaxerdec> it's WAY overscoped
[04:43] <vaxerdec> what's the source language?
[04:44] <bradleyayerswork> restructuredtext
[04:44] <vaxerdec> oh sweet
[04:44] <vaxerdec> i love it
[04:44] <vaxerdec> i use it for everything
[04:45] <vaxerdec> i just start started making trees and building it all with sphinx
[04:45] <vaxerdec> for all my docs at work
[04:45] <bradleyayerswork> ah yeah
[04:45] <bradleyayerswork> i use it for my projects too
[04:45] <bradleyayerswork> i wish it was more like markdown
[04:45] <vaxerdec> it's so nice and terminal friendly :)
[04:45] <vaxerdec> eh
[04:45] <vaxerdec> serious?
[04:45] <bradleyayerswork> in some ways, sure
[04:46] <bradleyayerswork> like single ` rather than double
[04:46] <vaxerdec> like what? what's the top hting you miss from markdown
[04:46] <vaxerdec> yeah that gets tiresome
[04:46] <vaxerdec> i just use editor macros
[04:46] <bradleyayerswork> and remembering how to make URLs
[04:46] <vaxerdec> oh right
[04:46] <vaxerdec> everyone has issues with that
[04:46] <vaxerdec> i usually just have the quickref up
[04:46] <bradleyayerswork> i basically have to look at reference every time
[04:46] <vaxerdec> :)
[04:47] <bradleyayerswork> i also don't like having to have a new line before a list
[04:47] <vaxerdec> gets even harder with sphinx you have to do stuff for cross references and likewise... they have like a hundred of their own '.. ' directives
[04:48] <bradleyayerswork> :ref: is good though
[04:48] <vaxerdec> oh yes, that is my biggest complaint with it
[04:48] <vaxerdec> any change in indentation and you need to put a space
[04:48] <bradleyayerswork> yeah :/
[04:48] <vaxerdec> and you know what... it handles it with #. just fine
[04:48] <bradleyayerswork> the whole infrastructure/design of it is good
[04:49] <bradleyayerswork> but the syntax is annoying
[04:49] <bradleyayerswork> which is a shame
[04:49] <vaxerdec> yeah that part is dumb.  i read a discussion on it and they said like they'd have to rewrite the entire parser or something to make that work
[04:49] <vaxerdec> what part of the syntax is annoying?
[04:49] <bradleyayerswork> just the things we've been talking about
[04:49] <vaxerdec> mmm
[04:50] <bradleyayerswork> hyperlinks, ``awef``, lists
[04:50] <vaxerdec> tables can be irritating
[04:50] <bradleyayerswork> yeah
[04:50] <vaxerdec> if they're not just simple.  everything has to line up
[04:50] <bradleyayerswork> yep
[04:50] <vaxerdec> i'm using some package from drchip to do it automatically though, or just started to anyways.  looks promising.
[04:50] <vaxerdec> yeah they are at 0.81 now i think
[04:51] <bradleyayerswork> i just find stack overflow's language memorable
[04:51] <vaxerdec> i keep reading the release notes to see if they fixed those
[04:51] <vaxerdec> nobody seems to care about those issues and i am definitely no python guru
[04:52] <bradleyayerswork> i am quite the python guru
[04:52] <vaxerdec> oh really
[04:52] <vaxerdec> fix it!
[04:52] <vaxerdec> i took a look once...
[04:52] <vaxerdec> it's all mixed up with block quoting (the list issue)
[04:52] <vaxerdec> but you know...
[04:52] <bradleyayerswork> it seems like it'd be difficult to get accepted for political/backwards compatible reasons
[04:52] <vaxerdec> if your output is html you can just give a list style
[04:53] <vaxerdec> nah you just make it a command line switch.  they have so many already.
[04:53] <bradleyayerswork> true
[04:53] <vaxerdec> but then the code would have to work both ways, which is even more challenging :)
[04:53] <bradleyayerswork> yeah :(
[04:54] <vaxerdec> i mean it's just such an obvious thing though.  i am always dismayed that their core team doesn't mind that.
[04:54] <vaxerdec> i think they just set style on their output.  i think the default style is totally ugly actually
[04:54] <vaxerdec> for both latex and html
[04:55] <vaxerdec> it actually makes pretty good man pages though
[04:55] <bradleyayerswork> yeah
[04:55] <bradleyayerswork> oh yeah? i haven't seen man page output
[04:56] <vaxerdec> oh it's nice.  at least it looks nice in my colorized pinfo terminal :)
[04:56] <vaxerdec> rst2man
[04:57] <vaxerdec> actually the simple tables aren't so bad
[04:57] <vaxerdec> just look at your man page for the upstart stuff... it's probably made by that if you say the web page is
[05:00] <vaxerdec> i wonder if they figured out what to do with init.conf yet
[05:01] <vaxerdec> do you know where the name 'upstart' came from?
[05:03] <bradleyayerswork> nope
[05:03] <vaxerdec> oh boy looks like i gotta figure out bzr to do this
[05:06] <bradleyayerswork> good luck :)
[05:06] <bradleyayerswork> i'm off
[05:07] <vaxerdec> later
[08:21] <TJ__> im a bit lost in all upstart versions at the moment; i have a job that is depending on some IFACE br0 to come alive. According to docs, upstart needs the upstart-udev-bridge to make this work. On the development ubuntu 11.04 system i have this bridge binary. On the system im building we use debian packages instead of ubuntu packages, and this debian package does not have the bridge, so the job isnt started....
[08:21] <TJ__> does anyone have any idea how to fix this ?
[08:22] <TJ__> btw the start condition for the job is : start on net-device-up IFACE=br0
[08:25] <jhunt> bridge interfaces are handled by ifup on Ubuntu. See file /etc/network/if-up.d/upstart which runs, "initctl emit -n net-device-up IFACE=br0..."
[08:25] <jhunt> the upstart-events man page explains this, although I appreciate it is pretty terse :)
[08:27] <TJ__> ah.
[08:27] <TJ__> i see
[08:28] <TJ__> on the embedded system we have, we do have the /etc/network/if-up.d directory, but in there, there is no upstart file...
[08:28] <TJ__> so if i create this file we should be done
[08:37] <TJ__> working ! thanks jhunt
[08:45] <jhunt> TJ__: great! :)
[08:47] <TJ__> how does it work on a debian system then ? the package we install does not have a upstart-udev-bridge binary so its not used there as well ?
[08:50] <jhunt> TJ__: the version of upstart in debian is very old. This needs to be rectified.
[08:51] <TJ__> aah... ok....   but then still... in my ubuntu development pc, we have the latest and greatest upstart provided by ubuntu, it has the upstart-udev-bridge, but still the if-up.d scripts are used... any specific reason why ?
[08:53] <TJ__> or is this just something on ubuntu's todo list ?
[10:11] <bradleyayers> so I've written a user job, and I assume i wouldn't need to use sudo with initctl (if i do, it  says unknown job)
[10:12] <bradleyayers> $ start my-test-job
[10:12] <bradleyayers> start: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.27" (uid=1000 pid=1480 comm="start my-test-job ") interface="com.ubuntu.Upstart0_6.Job" member="Start" error name="(unset)" requested_reply="0" destination="com.ubuntu.Upstart" (uid=0 pid=1 comm="/sbin/init")
[10:12] <bradleyayers> this is on ubuntu 11.10
[10:13] <jhunt> jobs are run as root, so you need to be root to start them :)
[10:14] <bradleyayers> doesn't that contradict the point of user jobs?
[10:14] <bradleyayers> the man-page suggests users can control only their jobs
[10:15] <bradleyayers> or am I just missing something :S
[10:18] <jhunt> sorry - didn't notice that you were using user jobs. User jobs are not enabled by default in ubuntu, even 11.10. Looks like the man page is reflecting the upstream version of upstart. We need to fix that.
[10:19] <bradleyayers> i've been making some edits to the cookbook, by editting the restructuredtext source
[10:20] <bradleyayers> what's the best way for me to get the changes to you?
[10:20] <bradleyayers> just a bug ticket?
[10:21] <jhunt> If you want to enable user jobs, you'll need to modify /etc/dbus-1/system.d/Upstart.conf so it looks like the upstream version: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~upstart-devel/upstart/trunk/view/head:/dbus/Upstart.conf
[10:21] <jhunt> bradleyayers: please raise bugs as specified in the cookbook itself (https://bugs.launchpad.net/upstart-cookbook/+filebug)
[10:22] <bradleyayers> and i'll just attach a patch?
[10:22] <jhunt> that would be fine
[10:22] <bradleyayers> great
[10:23] <bradleyayers> thanks for the upstart.conf tip :)
[10:24] <jhunt> np - thanks for pointing out the man page issue :)
[10:25] <bradleyayers> and user jobs aren't really mentioned at all in cookbook either :(
[10:26] <bradleyayers> what stops someone from writing a job that just hooks into some "starting" event, and then does a sleep 10000 etc.?
[10:26] <bradleyayers> (task job)
[10:29] <vaxerdec> bradleyayers: to what end? you mean to disrupt the operation of the system?
[10:29] <bradleyayers> yes, to just denial of service
[10:30] <bradleyayers> (inadvertantly or maliciously)
[10:30] <vaxerdec> perhaps they haven't worked out those details yet, which is why it's not in the released version
[10:31] <vaxerdec> there must be permissions checking...
[10:31] <vaxerdec> might want to check out the code to find out
[10:32] <vaxerdec> is there really a need for user events?
[10:33] <bradleyayers> this isn't user events though
[10:33] <bradleyayers> it's user jobs hooking global events
[10:33] <vaxerdec> eh? what did you mean then?
[10:33] <vaxerdec> right...
[10:33] <vaxerdec> i guess that's what i meant
[10:33] <vaxerdec> i meant, users interacting with the events in some way
[10:34] <bradleyayers> well my use-case is having a script that i want to run when a database is running
[10:34] <bradleyayers> and when the database is shutting down, my script should shut down
[10:34] <vaxerdec> but you can't connect to the database?
[10:35] <vaxerdec> you could run inotifywatch on the pidfile
[10:35] <bradleyayers> ill have a look at inotifywatch
[10:36] <vaxerdec> actually i'm not sure you can anonymously monitor that
[10:36] <vaxerdec> .
[10:36] <vaxerdec> i mean you could poll with stat() of course in the rundir but that's silly
[10:36] <bradleyayers> yeah
[10:37] <bradleyayers> there'll always be some manual scripting approach to check conditions etc
[10:37] <vaxerdec> is there some reason you can't just maintain a connection to the database?
[10:37] <vaxerdec> it'll probably dump you with a particular exit code even
[10:38] <bradleyayers> but i liked the way upstart handles this type of problem with events
[10:41] <vaxerdec> seems like the wrong mechanism to me
[10:42] <vaxerdec> maybe you could subscribe to the event and it could broadcast them
[10:42] <vaxerdec> i really have no idea what restrictions the dbus interface imposes
[10:43] <vaxerdec> of course i'd just advocate a unix domain socket access by a client library in client's address space.  or possibly, arrange to be signalled.
[10:45] <vaxerdec> this stuff is too fancy though.  should rely on helpers for all this... not build into init.
[10:45] <vaxerdec> i mean, it's arguable
[10:46] <vaxerdec> but pretty soon you guys are going to be putting tcp into the thing and doing notifications over the network
[10:47] <vaxerdec> which actually sounds somewhat interesting if it weren't so dirty to be doing that in PID1.
[10:49] <vaxerdec> i think perhaps it would be best to stick to current model where init has a specific role: to start, stop and reap processes only.  it's already spawning processes... why not have user-notify.conf which defines some other programs to do this stuff
[10:52] <bradleyayers> hmm, you raise some interesting points
[10:53] <bradleyayers> i think i do agree that user jobs are outside the responsibility of init
[10:53] <vaxerdec> kitchen sink approach is tempting, but time has taught us that the unix way of trying to do only one thing is a superior model
[10:54] <vaxerdec> this is exactly the problem with systemd although they are much worse and make no attempt to even limit the wreckage
[10:55] <vaxerdec> shit why not stuff it all in the kernel and call it a day ;)
[10:56] <vaxerdec> that will be next... modprobe systemd.ko
[10:57] <vaxerdec> or maybe they will call it lennart.ko
[10:57] <vaxerdec> now one thing i think is an excellent idea is the use of cgroups
[10:59] <bradleyayers> i hear if you put it in the kernel it's fast
[11:00] <vaxerdec> i would say the cgroups should go in a cgroupd but then you're just calling cgroupd and moving all the spawn logic from init to cgropud, which probably serves no purpose
[11:01] <vaxerdec> unless you could somehow hand off...
[11:04] <vaxerdec> cgroups are extremely powerful isolation and control mechanisms.
[11:04] <vaxerdec> come to think of it, you could do that in pam
[11:07] <vaxerdec> already pam does much/all of resource allocations and limit imposition
[11:26] <vaxerdec> hm.  can upstart just start arbitrary services and have all requirements for that service come up, automatically and recursively?
[11:45] <vaxerdec> (no matter what state those other services were in)
[11:45] <bradleyayers> well the dependencies might not all be for some things to be started
[11:46] <vaxerdec> i'm not sure that it can... perhaps this is one argument for real dependencies.  once you had those the rest could be derived.
[11:46] <bradleyayers> if there's other jobs that have hooked the 'starting' event of the thing you're starting, then they'll be started
[11:48] <vaxerdec> i have to read more about changes they have made.  i think with earlier codebases perhaps this would have been difficult to know deterministically.
[11:50] <vaxerdec> something else... the "it forked twice" or "it forked three times and i lost track" problem: couldn't that be solved by using netlink? i.e. via "proc connector" ?
[11:52] <vaxerdec> oh hah.  i'm reading a post about it by one Scott James Remnant :) guess they are one step ahead!
[11:53] <vaxerdec> bradleyayers: is it mysql or postgres?
[11:53] <bradleyayers> postgres
[11:53] <vaxerdec> (assuming it is relational)
[11:53] <bradleyayers> but… my usecase was a lie
[11:53] <bradleyayers> (sort of)
[11:53] <vaxerdec> bradleyayers: you could use notify(7)
[11:54] <bradleyayers> i have a background worker for a web site that depends on postgresql and rabbitmq
[11:54] <vaxerdec> i have just looked at zeromq, it looks quite lean.
[11:56] <vaxerdec> now that's an ipc i wouldn't mind using.  but not in init :)


[14:22] <vibhav> does irclogs.ubuntu.com log PMs
[14:23] <ppq> vibhav: no, technically that's impossible, only freenode could do that (of course it doesn't)
[14:23] <vibhav> ok
[14:23] <vibhav> thanks
[15:57] <vibhav> !who is your name
[16:54] <vibhav> what is the canonical irc channel
[16:56] <vish> vibhav: for which topic?
[16:57] <vibhav> just for knowing
[16:57] <vish> vibhav: they have their own private irc network, only for canonical employees
[16:57] <vibhav> #canonical does not work
[16:57] <vibhav> #test
[16:59] <vish> vibhav: thats a channel on freenode, as it says in that channel's topic it has been moved, might be an old remnant
[17:00] <vibhav> ok
[17:00] <vibhav> thanks
[23:20] <charlie-tca> I need help adding a #xubuntu specific factoid to ubottu
[23:20] <charlie-tca> factoid should be !nothelping
[23:20] <charlie-tca> Please do not disrupt the channel with off-topic subjects. If you are not using Xubuntu, you are not helping this user.
[23:21] <rww> charlie-tca: !nothelping-#xubuntu is <reply> Please do not...
[23:21] <charlie-tca> okay, I will try that
[23:21] <rww> although that seems redundant with our !offtopic factoids, assuming there's one for #xubuntu that mentions #xubuntu-offtopic
[23:21] <rww> (also, I use Debian. Can I not help users now ;)?
[23:23] <charlie-tca> We have several people telling users they can't be helped because the person is not running Xubuntu. We would prefer they not even answer in that case
[23:23] <charlie-tca> We have one that mentions #xubuntu-offtopic, but would like one that tells you not to tell our users you don't run Xubuntu
[23:24] <charlie-tca> If help == "I don't use xubuntu, so I don't know any answers. I use Debian."
[23:24] <charlie-tca> Then, no, that is not helping
[23:24] <rww> ah
[23:24] <rww> over in #ubuntu, I generally throw !guidelines and its "When helping, be helpful" header at them.
[23:24] <m4v> the factoid should be more clear then, the way is worded, sounds as "you can't help if you aren't using xubuntu"
[23:25] <rww> ^
[23:25] <charlie-tca> That's very direct to the user as stated
[23:25] <charlie-tca> If your response is you are not using Xubuntu, you can not help. correct
[23:26] <charlie-tca> If they help is called"I don't use this", then no, your help is not wanted.
[23:26] <rww> How about this: !behelpful is <reply> As our !guidelines say, "When helping, be helpful". If you're not familiar with the question being asked, let someone else handle it instead of making offtopic comments or jokes.
[23:28] <rww> s/question being asked/issue at hand/
[23:28] <charlie-tca> That would be good, too
[23:28] <charlie-tca> I would be happy that instead
[23:29] <charlie-tca> We need to get a handle on this one quickly, though. telling users what you use instead of Xubuntu is not helping at all for us.
[23:29] <rww> !behelpful is <reply> As our !guidelines say, "When helping, be helpful". If you're not familiar with the issue at hand, let someone else handle it instead of making !offtopic comments or jokes.
[23:29] <charlie-tca> Thank you, rww
[23:29] <rww> I also note that for corner cases, the IRC Guidelines' command to obey operator directives is useful :)
[23:30] <charlie-tca> yes, I brought that up, too
[23:33] <charlie-tca> I knew someone else would be better than me with wording it.
[23:34] <charlie-tca> with growth comes pain, I guess


[00:00] <sebsebseb> elky: indeed, and I didn't want the whole gender thing, but there was a misunderstanding or something
[00:01] <elky> sebsebseb, in the future, can you please refrain from interrogating people with personal questions. there's sites like behindthename.com which can tell you the gender of a name if you're really so confused
[00:01] <Pricey> I'd be more concerned with people like deany tbh.
[00:03] <elky> well i didnt receive a complaint against deany.
[00:03] <elky> i did recieve one against sebsebseb
[00:03] <sebsebseb> elky: did she complain her self or?
[00:03] <elky> yes, she did. that's how i know she felt humiliated.
[00:03] <sebsebseb> elky: thanks for the site by the way seems interesting
[00:04] <sebsebseb> elky: ok well I hope she figured out if it was the best idea to downgrade or get more RAM
[00:05] <sebsebseb> elky: or do a bigger swap
[00:05] <sebsebseb> I was trying to say in there by the way,  that gender dosn't really matter that much anyway,  because we are all people
[00:06] <elky> sebsebseb, i believe someone else is helping her now, so leave it be. just keep this in mind next time you want to ask personal questions in #ubuntu
[00:07] <sebsebseb> I don't know I saw it say she left,  and fair enough at what you were saying
[00:11] <sebsebseb> elky: are we done?
[00:11] <elky> sebsebseb, yes
[00:11] <sebsebseb> ok bye
[00:12] <bazhang> seemed like a come on, tbh
[00:13] <elky> it did, but i think he realises that
[02:42] <TomTommy> any developers here?
[02:43] <Flannel> TomTommy: no, this is the operators channel.
[02:43] <TomTommy> How come Ubuntun Developers removed iLBC codec from Ekiga?
[02:43] <TomTommy> ok sorry wrong channel
[03:14] <Bacta> Hello I had my ban removed in #ubuntu yesterday and now it's back on again - what's up?
[03:55] <elky_work> haha, he remembered to identify today
[05:28] <shadeslayer> hi theres a typo in the topic of #kubuntu,at the end
[05:28] <shadeslayer> thanks
[06:02] <Amaranth> @btlogin
[06:03] <Amaranth> @bansearch SetiAmon
[06:03] <bazhang> @comment 14040
[06:46] <elky> ok, this is lame. my ctrl keys have died...
[06:47] <elky> still work for getting out of vmware, but gnome is ignoring them and my bluetooth mouse
[06:47]  * elky suspends the vm...
[07:03] <bazhang> wonder if crunchbang should be added to the !mintsupport and the like factoid
[07:03] <bazhang> lots of users coming in talking about a ubuntu variation, ubuntu-based and it is that one
[07:03] <Flannel> !derivatives
[07:03] <bazhang> perhaps replace ultimate as that seems to have disappeared
[07:04] <Flannel> s/mce)/mce), crunchbang (support in #crunchbang)/
[07:04] <Flannel> oops
[07:04] <Flannel> !derivatives =~ s/mce)/mce), crunchbang (support in #crunchbang)/
[07:04] <Flannel> hmm, oh, duh, escape
[07:04] <Flannel> !derivatives =~ s/mce\)/mce), crunchbang (support in #crunchbang)/
[07:04] <Flannel> !derivatives
[07:04] <bazhang> nice!
[07:05] <Flannel> maybe to shorten it, instead of "support in" "see"
[07:06] <bazhang> good point
[07:07] <bazhang> @bansearch texasjack
[07:08] <bazhang> wonder why noutf8 is logged in twice
[07:09] <Myrtti> bazhang: it isn't?
[07:09] <bazhang> Myrtti, ie texasjack
[07:10] <bazhang> @bansearch noutf8atconsole
[07:10] <bazhang> bizarre
[07:10] <Flannel> texas jack isn't in the channel anymore
[07:10] <Myrtti> bazhang: since when has having two clients in #ubuntu been forbidden anyway?
[07:11] <bazhang> Myrtti, just odd, not verboten or anything
[07:11] <Flannel> Except he's not doing it
[07:11] <Flannel> But, given the nature of his situation  (console issues), I don't think it'd be odd at all.
[07:11] <Flannel> One's for testing capabilities, the other for actual instruction.
[07:11] <bazhang> why would bt show him though, thought that was only people online
[07:12] <bazhang> err I mean bansearch
[07:12] <Flannel> Because he's not banned?
[07:12] <Myrtti> hmmmm
[07:12] <Myrtti> he's got a point
[07:12] <Flannel> Oh, It probably does a /whois
[07:12] <bazhang> my understanding of @bansearch was that only people online would showup
[07:12] <Flannel> and whois is a whowas if they leave
[07:13] <Myrtti> I can't see the kanjis in console either, but I'm not totally sure if it's intentional
[07:13] <Flannel> @bansearch texasjack
[07:13] <Flannel> obviously it's not just for people online, since texasjack isn't online anymore
[07:13] <bazhang> maybe it got an upgrade
[07:13] <Flannel> Maybe ubottu go upgrades!
[07:13] <bazhang> jinx
[07:13] <Flannel> oh, so much more my wit.
[07:13] <Flannel> er, for.
[07:14] <bazhang> haha
[07:15] <Myrtti> ideas on where to point him to?
[07:15] <bazhang> * [shuttleworth] (n=mark@<IP_ADDRESS>): ubuntu  ??
[07:15] <bazhang> -ru :)
[07:15] <Flannel> considering sabdfl is online....
[07:16] <Myrtti> oh come on, where should we tell him to take his rants?
[07:16] <Flannel> Myrtti: Who? what?
[07:17] <Myrtti> noutf
[07:17] <bazhang> concerted trolling between him and shuttleworth it seems
[07:17] <Flannel> I think he's a chat bot
[07:17] <bazhang> repeating the exact same lines about debian
[07:17] <Flannel> He replied to it.
[07:17] <bazhang> he entered after
[07:17] <Flannel> It was too quick, that and the next one, to be typed
[07:18] <Flannel> Either that, or I'm lagging
[07:18] <Flannel> no, I take that back.
[07:19] <Myrtti> /who <IP_ADDRESS>
[07:20] <elky_work> check that it's not one i inadvertantly removed yesterday
[07:20] <Flannel> not by IP
[07:21] <bazhang> nothing in the bt
[07:21] <Flannel> Nope, nothing I can find
[07:21] <elky_work> ok. i cleaned out a few dozen non-resolving ips yesterday, is all
[07:22] <bazhang> debian-es seems to have something going on
[07:22] <bazhang> ie alicia and shuttleworth
[07:23] <Myrtti> ``y7: how can we help you?
[07:23] <shuttleworth> how about you filed a bug report yet?
[07:23] <alicia> hi
[07:23] <shuttleworth> hi
[07:23] <Flannel> What about somethign else?
[07:23] <shuttleworth> noutf8atconsole, what are you plugged in ubuntu but now, in console, no way to make simple chars work
[07:23] <``y7> Myrtti, i was just trying to figure out what this channels purpose is. am i not allowed to idle here?
[07:23] <Flannel> I see?
[07:23] <shuttleworth> richj: it is an old ipod shuffle, i get a directory
[07:23] <shuttleworth> digdeep, make a device with my wifi ubuntu i am told that the driver i had jockey error
[07:23] <alicia> my friend shuttleworth, was muted from #ubuntu
[07:23] <shuttleworth> noutf8atconsole, not bad considering it's free and your friend join #ubuntu-ops to write at console in ubuntu but i was just trying to figure out what about somethign else?
[07:23] <alicia> why?
[07:23] <Myrtti> ``y7: no
[07:23] <Myrtti> alicia: because it's a bot
[07:24] <alicia> why?
[07:24] <``y7> Myrtti: this channel is to only report ubuntu operater abuse?
[07:24] <shuttleworth> shuttleworth, do you speak english as a bug report yet?
[07:24] <Flannel> How are you shuttleworth?
[07:24] <shuttleworth> how can we help you?
[07:24] <alicia> why is he a bot?
[07:24] <Flannel> shuttleworth: Why are you a bot?
[07:24] <alicia> well
[07:24] <alicia> he is not a bot
[07:24] <shuttleworth> noutf8atconsole: have drivers for it wouldn't renew it is an old ipod shuffle, i can read in the ipod, and install another version from the repositories does not bad considering it's free and it is an old ipod
[07:24] <alicia> i cant believe it
[07:24] <bazhang> okay...
[07:25] <Myrtti> alicia: which part can't you believe? I suspect *you* are running it
[07:25] <shuttleworth> digdeep, format with which filesystem?
[07:25] <alicia> why?
[07:26] <Myrtti> alicia: because you come from the same ip
[07:26] <Myrtti> have the same channels
[07:26] <alicia> and, what about it?
[07:26] <alicia> am i a bot too?
[07:26] <alicia> are you a bot Myrtti ?
[07:26] <Myrtti> did I say you are?
[07:26] <Myrtti> no, I did not
[07:26] <alicia> i dont remember
[07:26] <Myrtti> alicia: running unsolicited bots is FORBIDDEN in #ubuntu
[07:27] <alicia> and?
[07:27] <Myrtti> and shuttleworth will remain if not banned, atleast muted.
[07:27] <Amaranth> hmm, random person talking nonsense that looks like a markov chain of #ubuntu
[07:27] <alicia> :( ok, he helped me a lot
[07:28] <Myrtti> Amaranth: who?
[07:28] <Amaranth> that's either a bot or a very very bored person
[07:28] <Myrtti> oh, yeah.
[07:28] <Flannel> Amaranth: with mad copy/paste skills!
[07:28] <elky_work> alicia, our channels have rules, and our rules must be followed if you want to continue using our channels
[07:28] <Myrtti> then there's the question about the nickname as well...
[07:28] <Amaranth> alicia: so go ask him in real life if he exists, you are at the same place
[07:29] <alicia> are you sure
[07:29] <alicia> i am alone
[07:29] <alicia> is there a bot running on my pc?¿
[07:29] <Myrtti> hmmm, to ban by ip alone...
[07:30] <Amaranth> Myrtti: sure, ban the bot's IP
[07:30] <Myrtti> alicia: stop acting stupid.
[07:30] <Amaranth> Myrtti: it's obviously being abused
[07:30] <Myrtti> yeah.
[07:30] <elky_work> Myrtti, well, yes, if she claims she has no bot on her machine, then clearly she has a compromised machine which cannot be trusted. unless she wants to be honest finally
[07:30] <alicia> well, how can i know it
[07:31] <alicia> does linux has viruses?
[07:31] <elky_work> alicia, how many people know the passwords for your machine?
[07:31] <alicia> only me
[07:31] <Amaranth> none that join the same IRC server and channels as you and generates markov chains of words it reads
[07:31] <alicia> and maybe my boyfriend
[07:31] <Flannel> Maybe?
[07:31] <Amaranth> alicia: Turn off the bot
[07:31] <alicia> what is a markov chain
[07:32] <alicia> how can i do it
[07:32] <Flannel> I don't think I want to know how a boyfriend can maybe be there.
[07:32] <elky_work> alicia, how many people have access to your network?
[07:32] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[07:32] <Myrtti> so much for that...
[07:32] <Myrtti> next
[07:33] <Amaranth> I have to admit that's the most effort I've seen someone put into a bot
[07:34] <bazhang> it answers in spanish as well
[07:34] <Myrtti> alicia21: hi. your ip is banned.
[07:34] <Amaranth> bazhang: of course, some of it's input comes from #debian-es
[07:34] <Myrtti> alicia21: will remain so until further notice
[07:35] <alicia21> well, i just want to remove my spyware bot, as you said
[07:36] <elky_work> it's not spyware. someone would have to have put it there on purpose
[07:37] <elky_work> someone on your computer, or your network, is running it on purpose.
[07:37] <alicia21> well.. i dont know, i have to sleep, thanks
[07:37] <Myrtti> alicia21: byebye
[07:37] <alicia21> cheers
[07:37] <alicia21> some ps -A ?
[07:37] <alicia21> some ps -A | grep something?
[07:38] <alicia21> ps -A | grep irc
[07:38] <alicia21> 13515 pts/17   00:00:01 seeborg-irc
[07:38] <alicia21> 18894 pts/15   00:00:00 seeborg-irc
[07:38] <alicia21> nice, i will kill it :)
[07:40] <Amaranth> Interesting that someone would configure a bot to join the same channels as you and talk about debian in its quit message
[07:41] <Myrtti> I'm surprised you knew that it was your friend, and then deny knowledge of it being a bot
[07:41] <Amaranth> If you would have just admitted you were running a bot and turned it off things would have gone better
[07:41] <Bacta> Evening
[07:41] <Myrtti> Bacta: hold on please
[07:41] <Bacta> np
[07:42] <Myrtti> alicia21: as far as I'm concerned, the ban will not go away in the next 24 hours. I'm not convinced yet you will not get the idea of running it again.
[07:43] <Myrtti> alicia21: come back later to ask for the ban to be lifted, ok?
[07:46] <Myrtti> Bacta: you were in yesterday only because you weren't cloaked due to not being identified. I kept an eye on you if you'd behave and you actually did in a way. If you can make a promise of not try to go fishing with the release name jokes in the future, I'll let you in now
[07:47] <Bacta> Thanks, it won't happen again
[07:47] <Bacta> And I wasn't identified? Weird
[07:49] <Myrtti> go ahead, try now
[07:50] <Bacta> Cheers, thanks a lot :)
[07:54] <bazhang> new bot name: MartinLima
[07:55] <Myrtti> the ip is not getting unbanned :-)
[07:55] <bazhang> hehe
[08:01] <mneptok> Prodego: how can we help you?
[08:02] <Myrtti> apparently not
[08:02] <mneptok> i hate rejection. hold me and tell me i'm special.
[08:03] <bazhang> ur speshul
[08:03]  * Amaranth hides from mneptok
[08:03] <Myrtti> mneptok: you're speshul, you ride the speshul lil bus to prove it!
[08:04] <mneptok> i wear a hockey helmet, and i'm not on the team!
[08:04] <bazhang> hehe
[08:05] <mneptok> http://mneptok.com/kvf-headgear.png
[08:05] <Myrtti> HUAHAUHAUHAUAH
[08:13] <Flannel> Mmmm, whenever a staffer has a minute, I've got a bot cloak transfer request.
[08:13] <Flannel> Oh, that means I have to figure out how to get my bot to speak on its own.  bother.
[08:13]  * Flannel stops thinking out loud.
[09:16] <tonyyarusso> Flannel: what kind of bot is it?
[09:20] <Flannel> tonyyarusso: just a supybot.  I actually already figured it out (and got the cloak too).  For some reason I couldn't get it to work ages ago when I was setting it up the first time
[09:20] <tonyyarusso> heh, fine, I won't help you then!
[09:21] <Flannel> tonyyarusso: good, because I don't even *want* your help, sheesh!
[09:23] <Myrtti> CHILDREN will be quiet in the channel while adults are drinking coffee!
[09:23]  * Myrtti sips
[09:24] <bazhang> hehe
[09:25]  * tonyyarusso runs through the channel making airplane noises, and tugs incessantly on Myrtti's pant leg asking if we can go to the zoo today
[09:26] <Myrtti> awwww bless you
[09:26]  * Myrtti pinches tonyyarussos cheek
[09:26] <Gary> I wanna go to teh zoo too!
[10:07] <indus> hi folks
[10:07] <Flannel> Hi indus
[10:07] <Flannel> How can we help you today?
[10:08] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:I help people based on my experience,but i dont like to say something just because someone feels its the right way or wrong way ---- iam not being rude so please dont interpret wrongly
[10:09] <Myrtti> indus: it's our job as helpers in #ubuntu to promote good practises, not only to help people with their problems
[10:09] <Flannel> indus: We're not making this stuff up for no reason.  If it's enough for you, I've helped fix at least a dozen of those situations before.
[10:09] <Flannel> I unfortunately don't have any good links documenting that stuff handy.
[10:09] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:guys wait iam not finished :P
[10:10] <Flannel> actually,
[10:10] <Flannel> !gksu
[10:10] <Flannel> theres a link there that gets into some specifics
[10:10] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:damn i forgot what i want to say :(
[10:11] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:ok always psychocats oh man
[10:11] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:i check wait
[10:12] <Flannel> indus: No, not always psychocats, the factoid just happened to have a link.
[10:14] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:ok nvm
[10:15] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:bye
[10:15] <Myrtti> bye
[10:19] <indus> Flannel: Myrtti:the explanation is vague and even they arent sure whats going on
[10:20] <Flannel> indus: What?
[10:20] <Flannel> indus: It's not vague at all.  It messes up permissions in your homedir so things are owned by root instead of you.
[10:21] <indus> Flannel:ok let me do a sudo for a graphical app now on my system
[10:21] <Flannel> !worksforme
[10:21] <Myrtti> Flannel: if it works for you, it doesn't mean it's ok to suggest it to others
[10:21] <Flannel> Myrtti: awww, I know that.  shucks.
[10:22] <indus> ok nvm but i get your point
[10:24] <indus> but i hope if i casually just tell some sudo ..... etc .etc you wont kick me :P
[10:24] <indus> is it ok?
[10:25] <Myrtti> are you saying that you will try to remember not to suggest using sudo with graphical apps?
[10:25] <indus> sure
[10:25] <Flannel> er
[10:25] <Flannel> oh, missed the not.
[10:26] <indus> but no guarantees, i dont see the difference yet
[10:26] <indus> ok enough chit chat now i gtg solve a few more problems for today
[10:26] <Flannel> indus: What will it take for you to see the difference?
[10:26] <indus> Flannel: heh maybe better documentation
[10:26] <Flannel> indus: What's still hazy?
[10:27] <Flannel> indus: What would better documentation contain that would make it more apparent?
[10:27] <indus> Flannel: a more solid example and not saying that it works fine most of the time etc
[10:27] <Flannel> indus: Most graphical programs don't have a problem with it
[10:27] <indus> aysiu mentions most of the time sudo works fine
[10:28] <Flannel> that's just the way it works.
[10:28] <indus> well ok ok
[10:28] <Flannel> Is it not satisfactory to just believe me when I tell you?
[10:28] <topyli> indus: look. never suggest sudo to anyone. simple as that
[10:28] <indus> lol ? why should i?
[10:29] <indus> i will remember it yes
[10:29] <topyli> maybe sudo works sometimes. if it breaks things even once in a while, it should not be used ever.
[10:29] <Flannel> graphical programs
[10:29] <Flannel> not ever, obviously.
[10:29] <indus> ok i ask all of u... has it broken for any of you?
[10:29] <Myrtti> indus: yes.
[10:30] <indus> Myrtti: tell me more
[10:30] <Myrtti> couldn't login.
[10:30] <topyli> indus: it can break any application that writes a configuration file in your home dir
[10:30] <indus> well ok guys ill believe you
[10:30] <indus> sudo uses the user's config file am i correct?
[10:31] <topyli> at least it breaks it :)
[10:31] <indus> lol
[10:31] <indus> ok
[10:31] <indus> i really want this to break something for me so iam dead sure
[10:32] <topyli> so let's not say russian roulette is ok because 5 times out of 6 you will survive
[10:32] <indus> btw,in case i cant login, what do you suggest?
[10:32] <indus> i deleted .ice authority file once and logged in
[10:32] <Flannel> indus: You need to drop to a TTY, log in there, and then fix the permissions problem.
[10:33] <indus> happened on feisty once.... there was a bug filed about it... but you know what? Now iam thinking it might have happened due to the sudo as gui was not that good then as in jaunty etc
[10:33] <indus> i mean...
[10:34] <indus> more command line was used back in those days than we do now
[10:34] <topyli> sudo with gui apps is not good in jaunty either
[10:34] <indus> no i mean ... back then sudo was probably used a lot more times than now, so it probably messed more systems
[10:35] <indus> ok anyway thanks for your explanations
[10:35] <indus> ill remember this now on
[10:36] <indus> grrr ..... i hate sucking up to the ops :P
[10:36] <indus> bye then take care
[10:36] <Flannel> indus: This has nothing to do with operators, everything to do with the quality of support in #ubuntu.
[10:37] <Flannel> indus: As I said before, I really don't care what you use personally.   He'll be taken care off if we catch him again
[12:42] <bazhang> ready to kick both of them
[12:43] <Mamarok> one of those days again :(
[12:43] <bazhang> yep :(
[12:55]  * Pici finishes reading backlog
[13:00] <Myrtti> backlogs are always so much fun
[13:01] <Pici> For varying definitions of fun.
[13:05] <Myrtti> masochistic kind of fun
[13:10] <Myrtti> haven't I banned eternaljoy?
[13:10] <bazhang> heh
[13:10] <Myrtti> I HAVE!
[13:11] <Myrtti> uhff
[13:11] <bazhang> ; \
[13:12] <Myrtti> I need to fix my aliases on this client :-(
[13:13] <Pici> Indeed
[13:21] <Myrtti> works
[13:35] <jpds> http://paste.ubuntu.com/194328/ - yay for redunant backups.
[13:43] <Nafallo> \o/
[13:45] <Myrtti> ok, Pasila train station, sign to start packing up my stuff
[13:45] <Myrtti> ttyl
[13:46] <bazhang> bon voyage!
[13:49] <jpds> Nafallo: Amazingly the -vn DB is bigger than the -se one.
[13:50] <Nafallo> jpds: more unicoded stuff probably? :-)
[13:50] <bazhang> oh wait that sounds like a Finnish station
[13:52] <jpds> Nafallo: By ~60K? http://paste.ubuntu.com/194339/
[13:52] <jpds> I wish logrotate did .lzma compression.
[14:40] <Pici> ikonia: ping
[15:12] <ikonia> Pici: did you want me ? (sorry not around much today)
[16:05] <Mamarok> Ursinha: thanks :)
[16:05] <Ursinha> Mamarok, np :)
[16:09] <jpds> Ursinha: \o/
[16:09] <genii> Ursinha: You speak portuguese?
[16:10] <Ursinha> jpds, \o/ :D
[16:10] <Ursinha> genii, yes, I'm brazilian
[16:10] <Ursinha> :)
[16:10] <jussi01> what did Ursinha do?
[16:10] <genii> Cool
[16:10] <genii> jussi01: Communicated with a Brazilian user in #k
[16:10] <jussi01> oh :)
[17:26] <genii> Got it already
[19:33] <ikonia> Pici: did you want me ?
[19:34] <Pici> ikonia: I forgot what I was going to ask
[19:34] <ikonia> ahh, no problem, sorry had a in/out day thought I may have missed
[19:54] <mneptok> gunh. where did the "/ns link" command go?
[20:10] <jussi01> mneptok: you mean group?
[20:10] <jussi01> :D
[20:10]  * jussi01 hugs mneptok
[20:12] <mneptok> so switch to $ALTNICK, then "/ns group $NICK $NICKPASS"
[20:13] <jussi01> no, if you are identified, just /ns group
[20:14] <jussi01> mneptok: ^^
[20:15] <mneptok> how does ns know what to group to?
[20:16] <jussi01> because you are identified...
[20:16] <mneptok> oh, i see. /ns id $NICK $NICKPASS and then group
[20:16] <mneptok> but don;t actually switch to $NICK
[20:16] <jussi01> ;)
[20:17] <mneptok> that's somewhat more cumbersome than is /ns link
[20:17]  * mneptok is an old fart
[20:21] <Pricey> Before you had to register the second account, different passwords etc.
[20:24] <jussi01> mneptok: I feel its simple, you login normally, identify. /nick $altnick /ns group
[21:35] <FujiVickery> hi
[21:36] <Seeker`> how can we help you?
[21:37] <FujiVickery> ok
[21:37] <FujiVickery> i have a problem
[21:37] <FujiVickery> i never knew there were logs kept off the ubuntu-* namespace channels
[21:38] <Seeker`> why is that a problem?
[21:38] <FujiVickery> and i have trolled a lot i know, but still i don't like the things i read the way people talked about me, and i think it violates some kind of privacy laws
[21:38] <Seeker`> what privacy laws might they be?
[21:38] <FujiVickery> i just want to start fresh but i can't as long as they keep logs with information about me
[21:39] <FujiVickery> well i am going to address this issue in a civil manner up to the highests courts
[21:40] <FujiVickery> i don't like this at all! Yes, i trolled a lot, but should this be kept in logs, i mean i don't like google having this information
[21:40] <Seeker`> I'm interested to know what laws you believe it is violating
[21:40] <FujiVickery> well i am talking on a network with pre-laws and i know several lawyers i asked them they told me
[21:40] <jussi01> FujiVickery: you are welcome to do that.
[21:41] <FujiVickery> they told me to ask here nicely first
[21:41] <FujiVickery> which is what i am doing
[21:41] <FujiVickery> i dont want more fuzz about this
[21:41] <tsimpson> you were notified #ubuntu was logged when you joined
[21:41] <FujiVickery> just anonymize the join ips please
[21:41] <FujiVickery> i never knew anything about it
[21:41] <tsimpson> well you were notified
[21:41] <FujiVickery> it's not in my native language
[21:42] <jussi01> FujiVickery: I assume you have read freenodes t?cs also?
[21:42] <tsimpson> as per freenode policy
[21:42] <FujiVickery> why are these logs kept?
[21:42] <FujiVickery> to incriminate me someday?
[21:42] <Seeker`> FujiVickery: you don't appear to be having any issues holding a conversation in English
[21:42] <tsimpson> for reference and an informational tool
[21:43] <FujiVickery> i can understand it's not an issue for most people
[21:43] <Seeker`> the logs aren't kept for any reason specifically related to you; They would be there whether you ever joined the channels or not
[21:43] <FujiVickery> not every reads these on joins
[21:43] <FujiVickery> it scrolls away to fast anyways
[21:43] <FujiVickery> i have a history enough people know that
[21:43] <jussi01> FujiVickery: not everyone reads a Eula or T&c's for websites
[21:44] <FujiVickery> so why keep these logs around on me?
[21:44] <FujiVickery> in the wrong hands they could really do some damages a
[21:44] <Myrtti> !logs
[21:44] <tsimpson> not just you, everybody
[21:44] <FujiVickery> and now every can google them even
[21:44] <Myrtti> AFAIK, they are sanitized.
[21:44] <tsimpson> what damage?
[21:44] <FujiVickery> http://www.google.nl/search?hl=nl&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aunofficial&hs=Ois&q=Fuji-san+site%3Airclogs.ubuntu.com&btnG=Zoeken&meta= <-- look how much information on just me
[21:45] <FujiVickery> and Myrtti i am not a famous troll kthnx
[21:45] <Myrtti> FujiVickery: WHUT?
[21:45] <tsimpson> just what you did in a public channel
[21:45] <FujiVickery> it's in the logs Myrtti
[21:45] <tsimpson> in front of >1000 others
[21:45] <FujiVickery> tsimpson you talked about me also
[21:45] <FujiVickery> you all talk about me
[21:45] <tsimpson> I did not deny that
[21:45] <Myrtti> FujiVickery: life is - and then you learn to live with the consequences, or find another way.
[21:46] <FujiVickery> how can i ever make peace with you guys
[21:46] <FujiVickery> can we have a good talk about it?
[21:46] <ikonia> not fujisan again
[21:46] <Myrtti> FujiVickery: threatening with law suits is *NOT* a good start
[21:46] <FujiVickery> i didnt threaten
[21:46] <Myrtti> it sounded like it
[21:46] <ikonia> FujiVickery: just leave
[21:46] <FujiVickery> i just said i talked to some lawyers and pre-law
[21:47] <ikonia> FujiVickery: stop wasting peoples time, go and get your lawers and carry on with your games else where
[21:47] <tsimpson> "[21:39:24]<FujiVickery> well i am going to address this issue in a civil manner up to the highests courts"
[21:47] <FujiVickery> ikonia, all you do is keep me a troll
[21:47] <FujiVickery> i can never better myself when people like you keep persisting thats all i ever will be
[21:47] <ikonia> FujiVickery: you are proving you are now - so move along and do something with people who want to associate with you
[21:47] <tsimpson> that is a threat of legal action
[21:47] <jussi01> FujiVickery: if this isnt a threat of lawsuit, then I dont know what is: [23:39:25] <FujiVickery> well i am going to address this issue in a civil manner up to the highests courts
[21:47] <Myrtti> that does sound awful lot like legal threats
[21:48] <ikonia> I'll host the logs - he can sue me
[21:48] <FujiVickery> well why keep logs to incriminate users and hand the data to google
[21:48] <FujiVickery> its all in googles cache
[21:48] <tsimpson> we don't "keep logs to incriminate users"
[21:48] <FujiVickery> i never consented for the information to be on googles servers
[21:48] <FujiVickery> never ever
[21:48] <ikonia> FujiVickery: we are not google - now leave and troll elsewhere
[21:48] <ikonia> FujiVickery: get something better to do
[21:48] <ikonia> sue google
[21:48] <FujiVickery> well the information is on googles servers now
[21:48] <ikonia> just stop wasting peoples time
[21:49] <FujiVickery> thanks to your logkeeping behaviour
[21:49] <Myrtti> no probs!
[21:49] <FujiVickery> i am not trolling
[21:49] <ikonia> can someone just kick the time wasting exercise please
[21:49] <Myrtti> (as we personally don't keep them)
[21:49] <FujiVickery> this is a serious matter
[21:49] <ikonia> how many times must this dance be done
[21:49] <FujiVickery> very serious
[21:49] <ikonia> FujiVickery: then take it up with a lawer
[21:49] <Myrtti> FujiVickery: and you're not helping it
[21:49] <tsimpson> if you think the logs "incriminate" you, then you should not have preformed the incriminating behaviour
[21:50] <ikonia> thank you
[21:50] <ikonia> thank you 10,00000
[21:51] <tsimpson> for when you read the logs of this channel, we consider the matter closed and not for further discussion
[21:54]  * genii hugs the incriminating logs!
[21:54] <ikonia> ha ha ha
[22:02] <Pricey> We do not manage the irclogs.ubuntu.com logs.
[22:02] <Pricey> I'd suggest you send him to those that do, rather than 'denying' his request?
[22:03] <ikonia> or just ignore his time wasting antics
[22:03] <Pricey> That is another option.