[02:07] <somerville32> kwwii, hi
[05:50]  * DanaG lruks.
[05:50] <DanaG> er, lurks.
[06:46] <KidProQuo> Just looking at the wiki, particularly http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyTheme I'm a wee bit confused
[06:47] <KidProQuo> is Hardy the *last* of the previous LTS cycle or the *first* in  the new cycle
[06:47] <Madpilot> it's a new LTS
[06:47] <Madpilot> Dapper was the previous (and first) LTS release
[06:49] <KidProQuo> on the wiki it is saying to apparently contradictory things..
[06:50] <KidProQuo> "Hardy is the last in the line of the current LTS cycle and should therefor fit well with it's brethren."
[06:50] <Madpilot> interesting. the writing on that page is a bit confused, isn't it?
[06:51] <KidProQuo> it doesn't really help anyone understand what we actually want
[06:52] <Madpilot> KidProQuo, that assumes the art team knows what it actually wants... :|
[06:53] <KidProQuo> we all know that's not even remotely true
[06:53] <KidProQuo> but we could at least make it *look* like we do
[06:53] <Madpilot> feel free to attempt to force that page to be coherent
[06:55] <BHSPitLappy> KidProQuo, the answer really depends on whether you mean ubuntu or kubuntu
[06:55] <KidProQuo> yeah, kubuntu isn't LTS this time around is it?
[06:56] <KidProQuo> due to the whole KDE 4 thing
[06:56] <BHSPitLappy> mmhmm
[07:00] <KidProQuo> anyway, my current project is attempting to work out a structure for generating potential themes in the future, not so much working on one for Hardy atm
[07:01] <KidProQuo> loosely based off the fedora structure
[08:39] <KidProQuo> Just looking at the roadmap, does anyone actually think we're going to have enough time to redo a completely new theme before the UI freeze on the 28th of Feb?
[09:58] <BHSPitLappy> KidProQuo, it's not so much of a community effort
[10:00] <KidProQuo> BHSPitLappy: do you mean *if* it's a community effort?
[10:00] <BHSPitLappy> I say what I mean
[10:01] <BHSPitLappy> a lot of this stuff takes place in-house
[10:01] <BHSPitLappy> sadly
[10:01] <KidProQuo> oh, gotcha
[10:03] <KidProQuo> I got a bit confused when first read your comment
[10:03] <KidProQuo> :-P
[10:08] <troy_s> wholly
[10:08] <troy_s> krist
[10:08] <troy_s> not
[10:08] <troy_s> sadly
[10:09] <BHSPitLappy> troy_s is having a one-line-per-term moment right now, please excuse him
[10:09] <BHSPitLappy> poor guy, he's not even stringing a coherent thought together :P
[10:09] <troy_s> it
[10:09] <troy_s> is
[10:09] <troy_s> not
[10:09] <troy_s> 'sadly'
[10:10] <troy_s> although it is amazing the amount of misinformation that gets spread around.
[10:10] <BHSPitLappy> I
[10:10] <BHSPitLappy> am
[10:10] <BHSPitLappy> gonna
[10:10] <BHSPitLappy> bed :P
[10:10] <troy_s> ditto
[10:12] <KidProQuo> troy_s, you might be a good person to clarify a question I had earlier
[10:12] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Yikes... go fast.
[10:12] <troy_s> KidProQuo: But I doubt I can be of any real use in any capacity involving a brain.
[10:12] <KidProQuo> re: the page at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/HardyTheme
[10:13] <KidProQuo> it appears to be saying two contradictory things.
[10:13] <troy_s> no real shocker there
[10:14] <KidProQuo> that hardy should look similar to gutsy, feisty etc as it is the last in that LTS cycle
[10:15] <KidProQuo> and that it is the first in the next LTS cycle, therefore it is the time to redefine the general look for the next few releases
[10:15] <troy_s> wholly jeeesuz christ
[10:15] <troy_s> can't people THUMBNAIL their crap?
[10:15] <troy_s> Wow that page is an utter homage to complete wastes of time.
[10:15] <KidProQuo> yeah
[10:15] <troy_s> KidProQuo: My money is on nothing anywhere.
[10:16] <KidProQuo> troy_s: ok, thanks anyway
[10:16] <KidProQuo> :)
[10:16] <troy_s> KidProQuo: I would be surprised if anything happened.  If Mahurin or Picasso drove over Shuttleworth in an automobile accident, I doubt things would change.
[10:17] <KidProQuo> lol, fair enough
[10:17] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Also, 68 pages of HTML wiki blather isn't much better.
[10:18] <troy_s> KidProQuo: In fact, if I step back and analyze the thirty seven pounds of email rubbish spewed in the form of 'knowledge bestowed to the masses', the ninety eight metric tonnes of wiki chatter I have tried to follow, the
[10:19] <KidProQuo> troy_s: I have been looking at the fedora processes for artwork and they seem sooo much clearer and more helpful than what we currently have
[10:19] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Make no mistake, Fedora _was_ it.
[10:19] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Fedora 8 is no better than we are.  SUSE, Fedora, and Ubuntu are pure rubbish.
[10:20] <troy_s> Fedora _had_ a talented individual leading the way, and now they are back to tepid, swirly, monochromatic-branding-genius-thinking, devoid of concept, and absolutely tripey rubbish.
[10:20] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Do you read the mailing list?
[10:21] <KidProQuo> troy_s: yeah, i've been *enjoying* that privilege for the last few months
[10:21] <troy_s> KidProQuo: It's great isn't it?
[10:22] <KidProQuo> a few good ideas come along every so often
[10:22] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Especially when someone decides to bestow such wonderful wisdom on the illiterate and uneducated serfs on the list.
[10:22] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Good ideas are a dime a dozen.
[10:22] <KidProQuo> but they are quickly forgotten and we're back to "i found this mockup on the net"
[10:22] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Worse, as you can probably see from evaluating the basics, the general audience of the list could do better simply by sitting down and quaffing back a dozen simple basic books on art and design.
[10:23] <troy_s> yep
[10:23] <troy_s> KidProQuo: I can only say it so much...
[10:23] <troy_s> KidProQuo: But really, we aren't even at a level to discuss the basics.
[10:23] <KidProQuo> troy_s: have you got any experience writing/modding gtk engines?
[10:23] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Yes.  Its tedious.
[10:24] <troy_s> KidProQuo: The engine writing is rather not that important as getting things to where they would need to be to write an engine.
[10:24] <troy_s> KidProQuo: If you want to mod, use the pixmap engine and get things into ship shape.
[10:25] <KidProQuo> I have a concept but i need to do more looking into the abilities of GTK to see if it's even possible
[10:30] <troy_s> KidProQuo: It's pretty easy to evaluate that sort of thing.
[10:30] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Of course, Ubuntu with its pursuit of all things that someone somewhere thinks is a 'good thing' has painted itself into a design nightmare.
[10:31] <troy_s> KidProQuo: For example, it is now impossible to deliver a 'design' for Ubuntu as you have GL acceleration enabled on some desktops and not in others.
[10:31] <troy_s> KidProQuo: Rather like trying to shoot a photo and accommodate say, sixteen different aspect ratios (can't be done).
[10:32] <troy_s> KidProQuo: You can play 'lowest common denominator' when it comes to that -- but even then it is almost impossible to find a resolution that is suitable.
[10:32] <troy_s> KidProQuo: And unfortunately, it comes down to destination.  That is a tricky beast.
[10:32] <troy_s> anyways,
[10:32] <KidProQuo> lol
[10:33] <troy_s> off for sleep before i fall into a jaded rant of hate.
[10:33] <KidProQuo> fair enough.
[10:33] <KidProQuo> I should probably crash too.
[10:33] <troy_s> night.
[10:33] <KidProQuo> see ya
[13:38] <lapo> hi
[13:45] <kwwii> hi lapo
[18:14] <Boris> hi
[20:13] <KidProQuo> leave
[20:28] <troy_s> http://www.uxmatters.com/MT/archives/000257.php
[20:28] <troy_s> From the article, a final sign that the mythic 'usability absolutism' might be having its tide turned:
[20:29] <troy_s> Emphasizing More Than Usability
[20:29] <troy_s> The concept of engagement can remind us that we are creating user experiences, which involve much more than mere usability. For example, it is critical for a user to be able to find products on an ecommerce Web site. However, once the user finds the products, it is equally important that the Web site offer compelling information, imagery, and more to support product research and influence product purchases.
[21:24] <kwwii> troy_s: nice article
[21:25] <troy_s> kwwii: Relevant to our little circle that throws out 'usability' every 2nd sentence.
[21:25] <kwwii> troy_s: yeah, exactly
[21:26] <kwwii> even usability people will say that usability is a quality and not measurable
[21:26] <kwwii> well, good usability people will say that
[21:26] <troy_s> kwwii: It's a little mired in, yet again, the 'WHO'.
[21:26] <kwwii> totally
[21:27] <troy_s> kwwii: Ask TheMuso what 'usability' means to him.  It is quite different than what some dork posts on the list stating 'first things must be usable'.
[21:27] <troy_s> kwwii: It is frustrating and a completely egocentric myth.
[21:28] <kwwii> it is a simple word to pull out of your pocket when you really do not exactly know what else to say
[21:28] <kwwii> so now my nick no longer means kenneth wesley wimer II
[21:28] <troy_s> it sure is.
[21:29] <troy_s> ?
[21:29] <kwwii> now it means ken wimer wii
[21:29] <troy_s> LOL
[21:29] <kwwii> got my kid a wii for christmas
[21:29] <kwwii> I gotta admit that is one heck of a good time
[21:29] <troy_s> great.  don't say that too loud or some 18 year old guy will grab you by your neck and start swinging you around.
[21:29] <troy_s> it is amazing.
[21:29] <troy_s> bowling!
[21:29] <kwwii> it is really a totally different way of looking at gaming
[21:29] <troy_s> Nintendo has also been quite amazing in terms of their presence and design from the dark ages.
[21:29] <kwwii> glad I did not buy the ps3 now
[21:30] <troy_s> kwwii: It cracks me up that the press says things like 'Format wars over' -- yeah they have been for about two years.  The format is called xVID and the content is online.
[21:31] <kwwii> now if only xVID was free of patent controversy crap talk
[21:32] <troy_s> indeed.  however, that patent issue is why theora can't implement the same breakdown alg.
[21:32] <kwwii> from what they say they are going to rework the theora stuff from the ground up
[21:33] <kwwii> maybe something will come from that
[21:33] <troy_s> hard to say.  the better thing is to perhaps chase after the mpeg patent that encumbers mp4 and see if it can get cleared up.
[21:33] <troy_s> the content is already rather ubiquitous.
[21:35] <kwwii> true but I think you have a lot of companies to deal with in cleaing mpeg4 issues up
[21:35] <troy_s> kwwii: One isn't it?  It is simply the patent issue on the low level alg.
[21:36] <andreasn_> "got my kid a wii for christmas" yeah, keep telling yourself you got it for him :)
[21:36] <troy_s> kwwii: The rest is rather irrelevant.  It seems that the quality is acceptable to the masses, the format is readily known and open, etc.
[21:36] <andreasn_> ;)
[21:36] <kwwii> andreasn_: I also bought my wife a mario game (which she kicked me off golf to play)
[21:36] <andreasn_> the galaxy one?
[21:36] <kwwii> troy_s: too bad you're not a lawyer :-)
[21:36] <andreasn_> I'm totally getting that
[21:37] <troy_s> kwwii: No thanks.  Wife is doing that.
[21:37] <kwwii> andreasn_: no the simple golf in wii sports
[21:37] <troy_s> Bowling!
[21:37] <kwwii> bowling does rock
[21:38] <troy_s> kwwii: That and watching 4 30somethings floundering with tennis from a couch is rather hilarious.
[21:38] <troy_s> its like some strange throwback to a 1960s Twister commercial.
[21:38] <kwwii> and I already broke my fist glass by driving the hell out of it with the controller playing golf
[21:39] <kwwii> hehe, I boxed and ended up panting and sweating
[21:39] <troy_s> (yikes... a fist glass sounds like something out of a shady video rental store)
[21:39] <troy_s> ok.  out for keanu time... yay.
[21:39] <kwwii> actually, I almost perfectly broke the top of a wine glass off the stem
[21:39] <kwwii> so now it is a candle holder glass thingy
[21:40] <kwwii> have fun
[21:40] <troy_s> returning to work after a lovely xmas is... gross.
[21:40] <troy_s> lol
[21:40] <kwwii> I know the feeling
[21:40] <troy_s> yeah have fun reading the mail.
[21:41] <troy_s> its a mire.
[21:41] <kwwii> I know now that I am not going to comment on a lot of it
[21:41] <troy_s> you know a full cycle has passed when people start promoting fecking colour psychology again.
[21:41] <kwwii> we can just discuss it at the meeting
[21:41] <kwwii> lol
[21:42] <troy_s> what next?  subliminal accents?
[21:42] <troy_s> woo!
[21:42] <troy_s> maybe some gemstone healing that comes in your Ubuntu cd.
[21:42] <kwwii> :-)
[21:43] <kwwii> just a little brown stone which says "world peace now"
[21:43] <kwwii> or a real piece of hardened elephant poop to explain the color scheme
[21:44] <troy_s> nice.
[21:44] <troy_s> we could even varnish it so that Shuttleworth thinks it is contemporary.