[01:31] <ScottK> wgrant, cjwatson, somebody: Rejected: clamav 0.98.6+dfsg-1ubuntu3 in vivid (Cannot copy DDEBs to a primary archive) - that makes releasing an SRU kind of tough
[01:31] <ScottK> Oh, I think I get it.
[01:32] <ScottK> It's still copying to the release pocket, not -updates
[01:40] <ScottK> Well no, same error using copy-package to updates.
[01:40] <ScottK> Sigh.
[01:40] <cjwatson> 19:33 <wgrant> We can fix the clamav situation by either a) reuploading it, b) fixing pkg-create-dbgsym before SRU verification completes, c) removing the primary archive ddebs check since it's obsolete now that publish_debug_symbols is a disableable thing.
[01:41] <cjwatson> (I'm sure wgrant won't mind me leaking that)
[01:42] <cjwatson> Basically we turned on new-style ddebs and then had to revert because that broke gcc; unfortunately clamav was a temporary casualty of this.  If you can wait until Monday-ish then I believe William was intending to do c) then.  Otherwise do a).
[02:18] <ScottK> cjwatson: We're getting a fairly high rate of bug reports over this.  I guess I'll go a.
[02:18] <ScottK> Thanks.
[02:21] <cjwatson> ScottK: Thanks.  Sorry for the inconvenience.
[02:21] <cjwatson> Too much to hope that it would all go smoothly after all the planning ...
[02:22] <ScottK> Well the other frustrating part is we knew about this bug but thought almost no one would hit is, so didn't push uploading a fix.
[02:22] <ScottK> Clearly that analysis was in error.
[02:51] <ScottK> OK.  Released again.  Let's see how that goes.
[03:02] <ScottK> Seems like that worked.
[03:02] <ScottK> Thanks cjwatson and wgrant.
[08:29] <wgrant> ScottK: Sorry, meant to copy what Colin quoted here but got distracted by another crisis. I'll indeed be implementing c) on Monday, but clamav was the only package hit.
[15:18] <ScottK> wgrant: At least we got it sorted.  Thanks.
[20:40] <wxl> hey we going to turn dailies back on?
[20:47] <infinity> wxl: Doesn't make much sense to do so until w-series is open.
[22:42] <Logan> and/or named
[23:33] <wxl> infinity: oh. that makes sense then :)
[23:33] <Ukikie> Also, the name issue.


[08:12] <Ph0x> anyone here
[08:18] <silverlion> hi Ph0x
[09:22] <Ph0x> i think the computer is just screwed
[09:22] <Ph0x> its ancient
[09:22] <Ph0x> @ silverlion
[09:22] <Ph0x> i just gave up
[09:22] <Ph0x> thanks for saying hi
[09:22] <silverlion> Ph0x : I dont give up that simple
[09:22] <silverlion> talk to me
[09:25] <Ph0x> its an old presaro amd64
[09:25] <Ph0x> i think the cd rom is shot
[09:25] <Ph0x> the dvd-r is definately shot
[09:26] <Ph0x> itll start distro cds but it always locks up on a seek
[09:26] <Ph0x> and just keepps seeking
[09:26] <Ph0x> i got debian on it and i think it died soon after
[09:26] <Ph0x> but debians being stupid and not acting right
[09:29] <silverlion> Ph0x : I dont know that Modell good enough so help me out: is there any posibility to boot from USB?
[09:34] <Ph0x> yes but the only USB stick i have on hand is "windows 8 complient" which means it htinks its a hard drive
[09:34] <Ph0x> it makes for all kidns of problems
[09:37] <silverlion> Ph0x : Is there a way you can get hands on another usb?
[09:40] <Ph0x> its not worth the effort
[09:41] <silverlion> Ok your choice ;)
[09:41] <silverlion> we're here in case you need us ;)
[16:20] <deitarion> Ph0x: Isn't that "thinks its a hard drive" thing just an "is removable device" bit that can be toggled using the right utility? I seem to remember running across that while looking up the pros and cons of having a partition table on a thumbdrive vs. formatting /dev/sdh directly.
[16:23] <deitarion> (I think it was a manufacturer-proprietary utility that just happened to work on anything, sort of like Seagate's SeaTools but for Flash.)


[00:32] <Noskcaj> Do we follow the CoC for copyright files? http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/trusty/hexdiff/trusty/view/head:/debian/copyright
[00:34] <slangasek> the code of conduct applies to everything we do while acting as representatives of the Ubuntu community; but I'm assuming you're referring to the choice of language in that copyright file, which we have no control over, because those are the actual terms of the license
[00:34] <slangasek> (it's childish, but that doesn't change that this is the license... and that's not the only package in the archive under that license)
[11:03] <ari-tczew> if a package got in d/control in Architecture something like "mips mipsel s390x", do we need to remove them or can be there?
[11:27] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: I think ARCH isn't considered with the script-rootfs
[11:27] <shadeslayer> erm
[11:27] <shadeslayer> live-rootfs I mean
[11:34] <ogra_> shadeslayer, because it is ARCHES iirc
[11:35] <shadeslayer> 0.o
[11:35] <shadeslayer> auto/config has no thing as ARCHES
[11:35] <shadeslayer> only ARCH
[11:37] <ogra_> oh, right
[11:37] <ogra_> how do you hand ot to the build command ?
[11:37] <ogra_> (should be a prefix)
[11:40] <shadeslayer> hm? I don't follow ...
[11:40] <shadeslayer> I added --architectures i386 to the lb config command in auto/config
[11:41] <ogra_> no, you need to set ARCH="foo" in the line of the build command
[11:41] <shadeslayer> I did
[11:41] <ogra_> hmm, works fine for me ...
[11:41] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.kde.org/pmaktsria
[11:41] <shadeslayer> this is on 14.04
[11:44] <ogra_> try exporting it instead
[11:44] <ogra_> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-June/033458.html
[11:46] <shadeslayer> ogra_: I did tryhat too t
[11:46] <shadeslayer> *I did try that too
[11:47] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.kde.org/pd2bgu85z
[11:47] <shadeslayer> ogra_: ^^
[12:06] <arun> guys ; is there APIs  site of Ubuntu ?
[12:16] <shadeslayer> arun: developer.ubuntu.com
[12:16] <infinity> shadeslayer: Run it under linux32, that's what the buildds do.
[12:17] <shadeslayer> infinity: yeah, but then this should be doable should it not?
[12:17] <infinity> Perhaps ARCH should also set --architecture, sure.  I'm just telling you how it works right now.
[12:18] <infinity> (And you want to be running under linux32 anyway, to avoid the possibility of something misbehaving when it sees an x86_64 uname)
[12:19] <shadeslayer> roger
[12:19] <shadeslayer> infinity: other problem, when booting the x86_64 image, it says can't find /casper/vmlinuz
[12:20] <infinity> That, I'm less sure about.  We don't actually use live-build to build ISOs, so your results will be a bit different from the "official" builds.  Patches welcome to bring them more in line.
[12:21] <shadeslayer> googling that issue gives me a number of hits where people said it's /casper/vmlinuz.efi
[12:21] <infinity> doko: Which toolchain-r PPA do you want me to copy this glibc upload to?
[12:22] <doko> ubuntu-toolchain-r/test
[12:22] <infinity> Done.
[15:15] <maxiaojun> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unzip/+bug/1199239
[15:16] <maxiaojun> why it stuck for quantal and raring?
[18:35] <shadeslayer> would anyone know why livecd-rootfs doesn't symlink binary/casper/vmlinuz-3.11.0-13-generic to binary/casper/vmlinuz?
[18:35] <shadeslayer> since syslinux looks for binary/casper/vmlinuz
[21:28] <Ampelbein> jamespage: Since you merged bsh, could you have a look at bug 1254335 ? It causes multiple build failures in Ubuntu.
[21:30] <Ampelbein> jamespage: The bug is fixed in Debian's -15 revision
[22:47] <shadeslayer> cjwatson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/livecd-rootfs/+bug/1254344 when you have some time :)
[22:48] <Noskcaj> Is anyone here a DD? If so, can you please review http://mentors.debian.net/package/testdrive
[23:36] <directhex> Noskcaj, debian/control says Depends: debhelper (>=9), but debian/compat says 6
[23:36] <Noskcaj> directhex, really? crap
[23:37] <directhex> Noskcaj, debian/changelog says UNRELEASED, not a real debian version to target (i.e. unstable or experimental when closing an ITP)
[23:38] <directhex> Noskcaj, those are the two which leap out at me. am on windows right now so hard to test
[23:38] <Noskcaj> I've fixed them both, will upload now
[23:58] <Noskcaj> Can someone please rebuild kreversi and krfb on armhf? The chroot failed


[02:04] <Guest71> How can I download so that I can find someone's IP address I need their IP address and it's and it's it's being hidden


[00:09]  * zmoylan-pi tests if it was the iron enriched corn by preparing the giant acme magnet...
[00:09]  * daftykins slides along the ground toward zmoylan-pi
[00:09] <zmoylan-pi> thank goodness for free shipping :-P
[00:10]  * zmoylan-pi reverses the polarity at the thought of daftykins approaching...
[00:10] <daftykins> ;_;
[00:11]  * zmoylan-pi puts out free bagels to console daftykins
[00:13] <daftykins> and treats for my cat? she was in my arms at the time
[00:14] <zmoylan-pi> she's a cat, she'll want some of whatever you're eating right up to the point of eating it.
[00:15] <daftykins> :>
[00:16] <penguin42> perhaps she'll eat the holes
[00:18] <zmoylan-pi> of course some cats love cheese
[00:18] <daftykins> o0
[00:19] <daftykins> she decorated the floor around me whilst i was poised on the tip of my sofa playing a game online with friends, Friday night
[00:19] <daftykins> i could only reach to push her off the rug at least :P
[00:19] <zmoylan-pi> and one of our cats adored porridge
[00:19] <zmoylan-pi> warm milky porridge
[00:25] <zmoylan-pi> perfect brekkie before a long morning snooze
[00:28] <penguin42> which lasts until lunch
[00:34] <zmoylan-pi> then a light lunch preceding the afternoon snooze
[00:40] <penguin42> which lasts until dinner
[00:41] <zmoylan-pi> or tea time depending on wether you're working class/middle class
[00:42] <zmoylan-pi> then if it's winter camping out to sleep as close to fireplace as is possible
[00:43] <penguin42> yep, my type of life
[00:44] <zmoylan-pi> i swear if the fireplace we had didn't have a glass door on the front she'd have climbed in sometimes
[00:45] <zmoylan-pi> she sat so close that her nose had a tiny scar from touching the glass when she started to doze off
[00:45] <penguin42> haha
[00:46] <daftykins> :D d'aww
[00:46] <zmoylan-pi> then after her fur got too hot to touch she'd fall asleep under sofa till she cooled down
[00:46] <zmoylan-pi> she was basically a huge heat sink in the house... :-)
[00:47] <daftykins> gah just missed a photo op of my cat using the TV remotes as a pillow
[00:47] <daftykins> :D
[06:37] <Knightwise> morning everyone
[08:36] <TheProphet[S]> Good morning all
[08:37] <TheProphet[S]> Anyone can help me understand why I have to boot in recovery mode and then resume normal boot to be able to start X in Ubuntu 15.04? If I start without the recovery step the screen remains blank
[08:38] <TheProphet[S]> Can anyone* and please*
[08:43] <TheProphet[S]> I guess it's a bit early on a Sunday to start asking that sort of question
[09:22] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[11:31] <TheProphet[S]> Testing Bioshock infinite on 15.04 after update, if I manage to start the system
[11:32] <TheProphet[S]> It worked at first, although I'm not sure how it managed to send the output onto the hdmi even though analogue was selected
[11:32] <TheProphet[S]> I then quit the game and fiddled with the sound settings, restarted the game and Pc froze
[11:34] <TheProphet[S]> After a hard reboot video output is not visible, I can reboot by going to a tty, I don't see anything though, I just remember the sequence
[11:37] <TheProphet[S]> Then I boot into recovery mode, select resume normal boot and video starts like nothing ever happened. Is there a logical explanation to this?
[11:37] <TheProphet[S]> If I select normal boot procedure from Grub I just get a black screen
[11:39] <TheProphet[S]> Perhaps logic died with Leonard Nimoy
[11:40] <TheProphet[S]> Anyways someone yesterday asked if Bioshock infinite worked after 15.04 update, the answer is yes
[11:41] <TheProphet[S]> Although it freezes it seems
[11:42] <brobostigon> ST4 5* 13:15
[11:46] <TheProphet[S]> After a few seconds of game play,
[11:47] <TheProphet[S]> It froze and I had to reboot
[12:23] <penguin42> Jessie seems to work
[12:27] <ali1234> in general or for bioshock infinite?
[12:30] <penguin42> generally
[12:30] <ali1234> i just saw someone say that NFS mounts don't work properly
[12:30] <penguin42> perfectly normal behaviour for NFS
[12:31] <ali1234> but that was on raspberry pi so who knows what hacked up version they are using
[12:31] <ali1234> well DBTS says it is supposed to be fixed
[12:31] <ali1234> or are you just making a joke about NFS being rubbish?
[12:31] <penguin42> well, it's not rubbish, but it does seem to need some TLC to keep it happy
[12:32] <ali1234> this appears to specifically be the issue where systemd can't mount remote filesystems from fstab
[12:33] <penguin42> ah, using systemd automount or explicit mounts?
[12:33] <ali1234> having NFS mounts in /etc/fstab which work fine, until you upgrade to jessie, and then they don't
[12:33] <penguin42> ah
[12:34] <ali1234> but as i said, raspi, so it's probably hacked up
[12:34] <shauno> I haven't touched jessie yet.  I'm a little paranoid about migrating non-systemd boxes to systemd when I can't physically reach them to mop up
[12:34] <ali1234> i can't decide whether to go 15.04 or jessie
[12:34] <ali1234> i'm on 14.04 at the moment
[12:34] <penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure what the debian story is for Pi, it might be supported?
[12:35] <ali1234> if i go 15.04 i'm stuck on the upgrade train until the next LTS
[12:35] <shauno> I suspect my task for the next few days is going to be duping them into VMs so I can play in a sandpit
[12:36] <ali1234> penguin42: the debian story is "use raspbian" - which is basically a full rebuild of everything with a different arch
[12:37] <ali1234> you can use debian armel i think, if you don't care it's not optimized
[12:37] <penguin42> ali1234: nod, I suspect the Pi2 is less hastle because it's a newer CPU, but I've not followed the Pi much
[12:37] <ali1234> right, the pi2 can run armhf so debian or ubuntu properly optimized
[12:38] <ali1234> the pi1 is stuck with debian's lowest common denominator and cannot run ubuntu at all. hence raspbian
[12:39] <ali1234> however they all have the same crazy bootloader stuff which requires non-trivial modification to the OS
[12:39] <penguin42> nod
[12:41] <penguin42> yeh but that stuff is fairly isolated; most of the userland packages after bootsetup should be OK
[12:42] <shauno> I think that meshes with what I tend to see - people boot raspbian, and then add jessie sources
[12:44] <penguin42> generally on ARM stuff, once you get a fairly modern kernel running you can just slap your favorite userspace in; debootstrap being the easiest thing to do
[12:45] <ali1234> but generally on ARM stuff you are tied to an ancient BSP which makes that impossible
[12:47] <penguin42> yeh, it depends how new your userspace wants; pre systemd you could get away with a fairly old kernel
[13:40] <bashrc> ali1234: whether you go to jessie or 15.04 depends on whether you need recent package versions and don't mind upgrading every 6 months. I use Debian on the server and have been on Jessie for quite a while
[13:41] <ali1234> i don't want to upgrade every six months
[13:41] <ali1234> i want nvidia binary driver to work easily and be able to play games on steam
[13:41] <bashrc> then I'd stick with debian or ubuntu LTS
[13:41] <ali1234> yes, which?
[13:42] <bashrc> depends which you prefer. Is this for desktop or server?
[13:42] <ali1234> desktop
[13:42] <bashrc> with desktop I'd go for ubuntu LTS
[13:42] <ali1234> i prefer ubuntu but i need newer packages than 14.04 has
[13:42] <bashrc> then you have the stability of an LTS, put also with the option to use PPAs
[13:43] <ali1234> i don't care about stability
[13:43] <ali1234> i just don't want to upgrade all the time
[13:43] <ali1234> by upgrade i mean distro upgrade
[13:44] <bashrc> if you really don't care about stability then a rolling release like Arch might be the thing. I don't have any experience on that though
[13:45] <ali1234> is there a rolling release distro that doesn't break every day worse than debian unstable?
[13:45] <ali1234> arch is not it
[13:45] <ali1234> rolling release appears to be an excuse not to ever test releases
[13:46] <bashrc> from my limited experience of rolling releases I think breakages are common. So going with an ubuntu LTS would seem to fit the requirements
[13:46] <bashrc> then if you need very recent packages you can probably just use a PPA
[13:46] <ali1234> yes, except there won't be another one of those for 12 months
[13:46] <ali1234> the newer packages i need include systemd
[13:47] <bashrc> ah, currently I don't think the ubuntu LTS uses systemd, although it might be possible to install it
[13:47] <ali1234> it doesn't and it isn't
[13:47] <ali1234> let me boil it right down to basics
[13:48] <ali1234> i want systemd, nvidia driver, steam, recent xorg, xfce 4.12 all working out of the box, and two years support
[13:48] <ali1234> also the moon on a stick
[13:48]  * DJones joking point ali1234 to ##windows :)
[13:49] <DJones> How does steamos deal with that
[13:49] <bashrc> I don't know what xfce version jessie uses, but that requirements list sounds in jessie territory
[13:49] <ali1234> well it doesn't have xfce 4.12 that's for sure
[13:50] <ali1234> jessie has xfce 4.10 still, but that i can deal with
[13:50] <ali1234> bigger issue is does nvidia driver work properly yet with a decently new version?
[13:50] <penguin42> ali1234: Hmm, the current LTS should get the new kernel/X in 6 months if they follow the previous pattern of hardware support
[13:50] <ali1234> last time i tried debian it was a year behind and you had to install it manually
[13:50] <ali1234> penguin42: but not systemd
[13:51] <ali1234> i don't care about kernel at all ...
[13:51] <ali1234> X is meh... as long as it has present
[13:51] <penguin42> ali1234: Well, fedora 22 gives you latest kernel, systemd, and X - but not the 2 year support
[13:52] <ali1234> also RPM is horrible
[13:52] <penguin42> yeh, I want to see what snappy is like
[13:53] <ali1234> last time i tried an rpm distro it was impossible to build any of the packages from source without exactly duplicating the build server
[13:53] <penguin42> that's actually not that hard, I've got the hang of rpmbuild
[13:54] <bashrc> I wrote a packaging system called packagemonkey which does rpm
[13:55] <ali1234> oh sure, rpmbuild. should have worked, it just didn't
[13:56] <ali1234> does it still try to build everything in hardcoded paths under your home directory that you have to rm -rf between every package to stop them conflicting?
[13:56] <bashrc> probably, but my packaging system handles all that drudge work
[13:57] <ali1234> rpm already has a tool that does that - it makes a chroot, installs all dependencies in it, then builds the package with rpmbuild
[13:57] <diddledan> howdo
[13:57] <penguin42> ali1234: almost, it's not quite hard coded but you can change it in a dot file; on one machine I have the %_topdir changed to build it elsewhere
[13:57] <ali1234> and it didn't work properly either
[13:58] <ali1234> well i think it goes without saying that rpm is off the table
[13:58] <ali1234> the question is do i stay on 14.04, install 15.04, or jessie?
[13:59] <bashrc> if you need systemd then it's either 15.04 or jessie
[13:59] <ali1234> yeah
[13:59] <bashrc> 15.04 might give you a newer xfce
[13:59] <penguin42> ali1234: jessie isn't going to get you latest
[13:59] <ali1234>  don't need latest, just newer than 14.04
[14:00] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried installing 14.04.2 - it will give you a different kernel/X than a 14.04 install unless you change the hardware support packages
[14:00] <ali1234> i don't want a newer kernel
[14:01] <penguin42> so what is it you want that's newer?
[14:01] <ali1234> systemd
[14:01] <penguin42> ah
[14:01] <penguin42> then you need 15.04
[14:01] <ali1234> or jessie, as we have established :)
[14:03] <ali1234> i think it has to be 15.04 really
[14:03] <ali1234> i bet debian doesn't have all the ubuntu gnome patches that make gnome software not suck on all other desktops
[14:03] <penguin42> although debian's gnome isn't that new, so maybe it's less of a problem?
[14:04] <ali1234> it's been a problem since at least 3.12
[14:04] <penguin42> ah ok
[14:05] <bashrc> I think jessie uses gnome 3.14
[14:05] <ali1234> it does
[14:05] <penguin42> yeh
[14:10] <penguin42> ali1234: which desktop do you use and which gnome apps do you use with it?
[14:10] <ali1234> xfce and the pdf viewer
[14:11] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I've switched to xfce,  but I tend to use KDE's pdf viewer, okular
[14:12] <ali1234> i've got a question
[14:12] <ali1234> why is it when you see screenshots of KDE software, they never ever use oxygen, and always use that theme that looks like gtk?
[14:13] <ali1234> https://okular.kde.org/images/screenies/okular-backend-pdf-1.png
[14:13] <penguin42> because oxygen is really really screwed up ?
[14:13] <ali1234> right. so why was it the default for so long?
[14:14] <penguin42> well it's quite nice look, but the oxygen-gtk renderer just causes so many random bugs
[14:14] <ali1234> oxygen looks awful
[14:14] <penguin42> ok ok, it's a theme
[14:14] <ali1234> it makes everything look slapped together
[14:15] <ali1234> it looks awful for entirely objective reasons
[14:15]  * penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce
[14:15] <ali1234> which can't be fixed due to the way Qt works
[14:15] <ali1234> what do you mean by "compact"?
[14:16] <penguin42> ali1234: I find the 'tabs' and buttons tend to use a lot of vertical space
[14:16] <penguin42> ali1234: It annoys me most on terminals, where the tab switching at the bottom takes a couple of rows space up
[14:17] <ali1234> then don't use tabs? use separate windows?
[14:18]  * penguin42 likes tabs
[14:18] <ali1234> there's this thing called a taskbar where every window is a tab
[14:18] <ali1234> and you can put it anywhere on the screen that you want. imagine that!
[14:18]  * penguin42 scatters terminals everywhere each with a few tabs in
[14:18]  * penguin42 would just like his tabs to be a little less podgie
[14:18] <ali1234> what terminal?
[14:19] <penguin42> ali1234: I think it's the same on both terminator and xfce-terminal
[14:19] <ali1234> yeah it is
[14:19] <ali1234> oh, have you set "force dpi" to 96 dpi?
[14:20] <ali1234> that is essential
[14:20] <penguin42> yeh I'm pretty sure I've got that
[14:20] <ali1234> and set font size to 11 pt?
[14:23] <penguin42> see   http://imagebin.ca/v/1zfYH9sBBh5a
[14:23] <ali1234> what have you done...
[14:23] <penguin42> haha
[14:23] <ali1234> the tabs are the only thing in that picture that is the correct size
[14:24] <penguin42> it's microcurve title bar theme, so that's nice and small, I've got a nice small font in the terminal - and these *HUGE* tabs
[14:25] <ali1234> just set the system font to like 7 pt
[14:25] <penguin42> but there seems to be so much padding around the text
[14:25] <ali1234> yes, because without that it looks awful
[14:25] <penguin42> (Default font is Sans 9)
[14:25] <ali1234> without that padding it will look like KDE
[14:26] <ali1234> where everything is squashed together and unreadable
[14:26] <penguin42> well, I would like it a bit more squashed, like the title
[14:26] <penguin42> it's readable but with no extra space
[14:26] <ali1234> window borders are just bitmaps in xfwm
[14:27] <ali1234> you will have to hack the gtk theme to get less padding on elements
[14:27] <ali1234> it is written in css for gtk3 and something else for gtk2
[14:27] <penguin42> yeh, as I say, (15:15:18) ***penguin42 is still looking for a compact gtk theme to use in xfce
[14:27] <ali1234> and the css version breaks with every gtk release and someone has to spend several hours fixing it
[14:28] <ali1234> gtk themes pretty much don't exist any more because of this
[14:28] <penguin42> a sad state of affairs
[14:28] <ali1234> xfce has dropped all themes except for greybird and numix
[14:28] <penguin42> brb
[14:31] <ali1234> i would switch to KDE if they made a decent theme
[14:31] <ali1234> the new thing unfortunately does not seem to have fixed any of the alignment issues
[14:32] <ali1234> they did at least get rid of the gradients and boxes everywhere though, so that's something
[14:33] <ali1234> maybe i should make a kde theme
[14:35] <penguin42> ali1234: I've just switched to xfce from KDE, I can't stand KDE5
[14:36] <ali1234> why? it's just the same thing with a much better theme
[14:37] <ali1234> i would probably have to nuke the plasma trash though, and just run xfce panel or something
[14:38] <penguin42> KDE without plasma? Sounds an odd thing to do
[14:39] <diddledan> kde3 was where it was at
[14:39] <diddledan> I liked kde3
[14:39] <ali1234> i think the pdf viewer might be the only app i use which is part of a "desktop environment"
[14:39] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh
[14:40] <diddledan> the switch between kde3 and 4 was jarring
[14:40] <penguin42> diddledan: I went KDE3->Gnome (2?)->KDE4 (after about 4 years with Gnome2)
[14:40] <diddledan> like "wtf did you do?!"
[14:40] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh, KDE5 is like that now
[14:40] <ali1234> http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/094/9/b/kde_5_mockup_2_0_by_linix_arts-d7cyuh7.png
[14:40] <diddledan> it was because of kde4 that I went ubuntu
[14:40] <ali1234> this is hilarious
[14:41] <ali1234> arn't mock ups supposed to look *good*?
[14:41] <ali1234> at least they fixed the clock
[14:41] <diddledan> the colours in that are evil
[14:42] <diddledan> green "spotify" followedby "now playing" in white?!
[14:42] <ali1234> now this, this looks good: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CBOhh_ywz1c/VH2TB-RMgKI/AAAAAAAAJyg/ZwiOjKgD-uo/s1600/Manjaro%2B0.8.11.jpg
[14:42] <diddledan> not just green but luminous green
[14:42] <ali1234> i'm not even sure if that is KDE
[14:43] <diddledan> it really annoys me that anything running on kde MUST have a badly placed K in the name
[14:44] <diddledan> oKular
[14:44] <ali1234> i don't mind that
[14:44] <diddledan> and that example with "piKture"
[14:45] <diddledan> and "Kontrol Panel" <-- why can't they call that "K Control Panel"?
[14:46] <ali1234> oh wow that manjaro screenshot is xfce
[14:46] <ali1234> i knew it was too good to be true
[16:55] <daftykins> just been to that castle mountain bikin' event
[16:55] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/15m8ehwwbwjo6nn/AACwtdSjK7Nc0HdIyNmedjx6a?dl=0
[17:13] <shauno> you appear to have borrowed our weather
[17:14] <shauno> (no rush returning it btw, I'm getting kinda used to this bright light)
[17:17] <daftykins> shauno: :D
[17:17] <daftykins> foggy this morn, windy and 10 deg C this afty
[17:21] <shauno> we've had pretty much continuous sun.  a bit grayer today, but still totally passable.
[17:21] <shauno> went up to dublin yesterday, got soaked to the skin, and promptly left again
[17:23] <diddledan> shauno: you're lying
[17:23] <diddledan> shauno: ireland doesn't have sun!
[17:23] <shauno> norly!
[17:23] <diddledan> serials?
[17:24] <penguin42> shauno: the sun seems to be over here today
[17:27] <shauno> http://i.imgur.com/APkPbeF.jpg  (just to add further shock, I've even been outside)
[17:29] <diddledan> I call shenanigans - that's america
[17:29] <shauno> lol
[17:29] <diddledan> nowai is ireland that pretty!
[17:31] <diddledan> so my masculinity extensions are installed into my NAS
[17:31] <diddledan> I now have 7TEEBEEs to play with
[17:32] <shauno> proofs it's not america - they wouldn't consider that a road, let alone a 2-lane road - http://i.imgur.com/ahvy6TB.jpg
[17:33] <diddledan> no wonder the post office doesn't believe you exist
[17:34] <daftykins> crikey that's a main road :P
[17:34] <diddledan> lol
[17:34] <daftykins> can get two horse and carts going opposite ways down that easy ;)
[17:35] <diddledan> clickity clack over the bridge. and out pops the troll and tries to eat it.
[17:36] <diddledan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Billy_Goats_Gruff
[17:37] <shauno> we actually have carts here :/  well, they call them 'traps'
[17:38] <shauno> had a friend over from slovakia for the week .. she was quite surprised to see them around and about town
[17:39] <shauno> also surprised to see people park their houses on random bits of commanage
[17:39] <daftykins> :D
[17:39] <shauno> got me thinking, it kinda says something when a slovakian thinks your city is "cute but kinda backwards"
[17:39] <daftykins> big alarm bells start sounding, then you know you have to hit the pub yep
[17:40] <daftykins> but these city folk know not what they see ;)
[17:40] <shauno> lol .. well this is ireland's 3rd biggest city :)
[17:40] <diddledan> I like that they actually admit that they're "traps"
[17:40] <shauno> (or 4th .. galway and limerick seem to have some kind of dispute over that)
[17:41] <diddledan> www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F4qzPbcFiA
[17:41] <daftykins> fine Irish fellow there
[17:45] <diddledan> he may have been in the sunbed a bit too long - he looks like a lobster now
[17:45] <shauno> well, this will be fun.  I have to knock up a new front panel for something, but the only ruler I can find is old & snapped.  so I have about 7cm to work with
[17:45] <diddledan> 3inches ought to be enough for anyone
[17:46] <diddledan> or is that 640KB?
[17:46] <daftykins> i do loathe those ancient and out of context quotes
[17:46] <daftykins> sounds a bit too much like newbies going "hur hur, things change as time passes"
[17:46] <daftykins> http://wccftech.com/intels-6th-generation-skylake-s-processor-lineup-leaked-core-i7-6700k-leads-pack-10-skus-detailed-samples-spotted/
[17:46] <daftykins> got linked to this earlier 0o
[17:47] <daftykins> 4GHz at last
[17:47] <diddledan> I thought intel believed that 4GHz was a myth
[17:48] <shauno> picked this up - http://www.ebay.ie/itm/141361319227  there seems to be 1001 people selling it, and no-one giving a proper set of dimensions :(
[17:48] <penguin42> sigh - I want more cores, give me 8 core, 3.5GHz and I'll be happy
[17:48] <daftykins> isn't that what Haswell-E is, penguin42 ? logical cores anyway
[17:49] <diddledan> shauno: doesn't this count: External dimension:  width=220mm   Height=52mm   depth = 226mm?
[17:49] <shauno> it's not really enough .. I need to know what screws go in the front, and how far from the corners they are
[17:49] <penguin42> daftykins: Haswell-E is I think 6 core, so getting there - but still - come on!
[17:49] <penguin42> daftykins: I think they're upto 15 core in Xeon
[17:50] <diddledan> penguin42: you want 8 full cores or 4 with hypernuts?
[17:50] <penguin42> diddledan: I want my full 8 full cores, none of this hypernuts
[17:50] <daftykins> haha
[17:50] <diddledan> so you want 16 hyperspaces?
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: I've got a 5 year old 4 core 2.8GHz i7 here - why bother upgrading? Sure it'll be a bit faster clock/clock - but not vastly
[17:51] <diddledan> I've got an AMD 8core
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: Meh, 16 hypernuts would be nice, but it's the cores I really want
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: No, you've got an AMD 4 core with their equivalent of HT
[17:51] <daftykins> i don't think i'd buy AMD.
[17:51] <diddledan> penguin42: it's not the same as FTL
[17:51] <penguin42> diddledan: They share chunks between their cores, they're not really 8 independent cores
[17:52] <diddledan> penguin42: it's only the Integer unit that's shared
[17:52] <penguin42> diddledan: Other way, I think it's only the fp unit that's shared
[17:52] <diddledan> the actual guts is all independant
[17:52] <penguin42> still, I want 8 real independent cores
[17:52] <diddledan> it can drive non arithmetic stuff at 8 independance
[17:53] <penguin42> true, I'd rather have 16 cores that are independent, but I'll settle with 8
[17:53] <penguin42> maybe I'd even have a broken 16 core with say 13 cores
[17:53] <daftykins> heh
[17:53] <daftykins> fail-binned
[17:54] <penguin42> yeh, give me 13 cores, I'll be happy
[17:54]  * penguin42 uses a machine with 2x6 cores as one of his dev boxes at work; very nice
[17:55] <penguin42> but I'm just bored with Intel not pulling their fingers out for years
[17:55] <shauno> did those omgcores arm boxes ever happen?
[17:55] <penguin42> shauno: They apparently exist but I can't find any to buy - the Cavium ThunderX
[17:55] <diddledan> shauno: the orangebox?
[17:55] <daftykins> why should intel work when AMD suck so hard :(
[17:55] <shauno> nah, I think the orangebox was a bunch of mini intels shoved in one chassis
[17:56] <diddledan> shauno: I think canonical moved away from arm for those replacing them with intels
[17:56] <penguin42> daftykins: Yeh exactly
[17:56] <penguin42> daftykins: The problem is Intel just have a very very sharp pin on their chip making equipment, and until AMDs fabs catch up they don't stand much of a chance
[17:56] <daftykins> well that and they don't have fabs :>
[17:57] <daftykins> their designs haven't done too well for a while now too
[17:57] <daftykins> i'd love them to come back (AMD) it'd be great to have true competition again
[17:57] <directhex_> AMD no longer have any dazzle
[17:57] <daftykins> ok i've gotta head out, ttfn \o
[17:57] <directhex_> when was the last time they competed?
[17:57] <daftykins> probably Athlon64 time
[17:57] <directhex_> athlon fx!
[17:57] <penguin42> daftykins: oh yeh, they sold them off to Global foundaries I think?
[17:57] <diddledan> directhex_: back in the 90s they were topdog with the k6-2
[17:58] <directhex_> i had a duron once
[17:58] <directhex_> and athlon64
[17:58] <daftykins> Athlon XP mobile was where it was at ;)
[17:58] <shauno> my amd 486 was smoking.  120MHz 486.
[17:58]  * penguin42 had a dual Athlon at one point
[17:58] <penguin42> Athlon MP
[17:58] <directhex_> i7 is fine for me
[17:58] <diddledan> I think they stopped being truly competitive when they no-longer used an "intel equivalence value" in their marketing
[17:59] <directhex_> i think it was the APU days
[18:00] <directhex_> i lost track totally of their sockets, they had like 3 different sockets on the go at once, mostly differentiated by whether the onboard gfx was dire or merely bad
[18:00] <directhex_> i still don't understand amd sockets
[18:01] <diddledan> the AM sockets seem to be backward compatible?
[18:01] <diddledan> e.g. I believe AM3+ can run a processor designed for AM3 or AM2
[18:01] <directhex_> socket am1, fm2, fm2+, and am3+, for desktops
[18:01] <diddledan> (the + is important for omgcores apparently?)
[18:01] <directhex_> all the motherboards are from 2011 too
[18:02] <diddledan> yeah they haven't released a new chipset in forever
[18:02] <directhex_> and their top-end cpu will burn a hole through your floor. 220W!
[18:02] <diddledan> all the recent mobos have been rehashes of existing ones with an efi instead of bios
[18:17] <diddledan> bashrc: you enjoying the yoyo experience?
[20:01] <daftykins> must be the BT effect :D
[20:04] <penguin42> diddledan: They need EFI/GPT partitions to do big disks
[20:10] <daftykins> AMD chipsets went pretty bad for a while
[20:14] <shauno> I gave up on amd when Apple declared Intel the one true saviour (for now)
[20:14] <shauno> which would be funnier if it wasn't true.
[20:16] <ali1234> i was looking at CPUs the other day and it looks like the most expensive AMD CPU is the same price as the cheapest Intel CPU
[20:16] <ali1234> at around £250
[20:16] <penguin42> they have to to get the performance close
[20:16] <daftykins> surely that's not a cheapest
[20:17] <penguin42> no, you can get Intel for about £40
[20:18] <directhex_> you can get a socket-1150 intel for £33.70 delivered
[20:18] <directhex_> dual core 2.4ghz
[20:18] <ali1234> celeron, yes
[20:18] <ali1234> i only looked at quad core cpus
[20:19] <daftykins> i don't buy anything below an i3 :>
[20:19] <penguin42> ali1234: Actually, you're not trying on the AMDs - http://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd-3rd-gen-opteron-6380-cpu-abu-dhabi-16-core-s-g34-%28lga-1944%29-25ghz-8mb-x-2-l3-cache-115w-without-
[20:19] <ali1234> and it was around £150
[20:19] <ali1234> yeah i didn't look at opteron/xeon either
[20:19]  * penguin42 bets that's 2 chips in one package
[20:20] <daftykins> save on the heating next winter!
[20:20] <directhex_> 115W is low for AMD
[20:20] <directhex_> they have 220W chips
[20:21] <ali1234> the cheapest haswell i5 is about the same price as the most expensive amd fx
[20:21] <daftykins> an FX line is still going? crikey
[20:22] <ali1234> well, what is AMDs CPU for the high end consumer these days?
[20:22] <daftykins> i don't have a clue of their lineup at all since i don't tend to consider them even worthy of checking
[20:22] <ali1234> AMD A?
[20:23] <directhex_> they don't have one
[20:23] <directhex_> they literally don't make high end consumer chips. the highest end they ever made is still the fx 9590, which is old
[20:23] <directhex_> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-9590
[20:24] <directhex_> but you need to add the cost of a liquid cooling system to the amd
[20:26] <directhex_> whereas the i5 haswell comes with a functional cooler
[20:26] <directhex_> since it's 84W vs 220W
[20:26] <daftykins> :S
[20:26] <directhex_> and you *officially* can't run the 9590 off air, according to amd (results may vary in real life)
[20:27] <directhex_> they sell a rebranded asetek AIO water cooler w/ 120mm radiator, the "amd fx-series liquid cooling system"
[20:27] <ali1234> how much is it?
[20:27] <directhex_> struggling to find it in the UK. equivalents are about 40-45 quid
[20:28] <ali1234> the chip is £170 less than the intel chip in your comparison
[20:29] <directhex_> Intel Core i5 4440 Processor Haswell is £144, AMD FX 9590 Processor - 8 Core is £181
[20:29] <directhex_> that's top of the range amd vs cheapest quadcore intel, as requested
[20:29] <directhex_> so add a £40 cooler to that and it's £220 vs £144
[20:30] <directhex_> we could compare a £144 amd? or a £220 intel? what would you prefer?
[20:31] <ali1234> how about FX 8370E (95W - £142) vs the £144 haswell?
[20:32] <directhex_> http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i5-4440-vs-AMD-FX-8370E says ~identical in the aggregate. intel better at single core, amd better at threaded (4 core vs 8 core)
[20:32] <ali1234> figures
[20:35] <directhex_> this is sorta AMD's problem. i had £300 to spend on a processor. amd don't make a processor to appeal to me. the intel i bought wipes the floor with the best amd on the market, in every measure except maybe "value for money"
[20:35] <ali1234> yeah, i agree, that's kinda my point
[20:36] <ali1234> AMD FX run from £60 - £180, intel i5 to i7 runs from £140 to £900
[20:37] <directhex_> only 900?
[20:37] <ali1234> 839 seems to be the most expensive before you get to xeons
[20:38] <directhex_> bargain! should have got one of those
[20:38] <directhex_> ;)
[20:38] <directhex_> witcher 2 seems okay on ultra graphics settings on linux. that's good.
[20:42] <daftykins> did you solve your 15.04 Bioshock issues?
[20:42] <directhex_> not yet
[20:51] <ali1234> who else other than asus makes motherboards with all 4-pin fan connectors?
[20:52] <ali1234> seems like everyone else just has it for the CPU fan and all the others scream
[20:57] <directhex_> hm. not something i've actively paid attention to
[20:57] <directhex_> according to my motherboard manual, it's got 5 4-pin fan headers
[20:57] <directhex_> and no 3-pin
[21:07] <ali1234> directhex_: and what make is it?
[21:07] <directhex_> msi
[21:07] <ali1234> i see. i was actually looking at them... my GPU is MSI and it's very quiet
[21:08] <directhex_> i wanted out-of-the-box linux support.
[21:08] <ali1234> motherboard is ASUS and the CPU bracket lug snapped off, causing the heatsink to fall off while in operation :(
[21:08] <directhex_> not many motherboards advertise that
[21:09] <penguin42> ali1234: Ouch
[21:09] <ali1234> out of the box linux support is also good of course... my brother got a new ASUS mobo recently and virtually nothing on it works in linux, not even the ethernet and sata works properly
[21:09] <directhex_> ali1234: my cooler's bolted to a metal backplate, thankfully :x
[21:10] <ali1234> although to be fair it was a year ago
[21:10] <directhex_> ali1234: that's what i wanted to avoid
[21:10] <directhex_> ali1234: killernic. supported out of the box on ubuntu, but not windows 10 :D
[21:10] <ali1234> silly name though. is it actually good?
[21:11] <directhex_> pfft
[21:11] <directhex_> it's just a nic, tbh. these days, anyway
[21:11] <directhex_> back in the day, the killernic was a $300 (!) network card, for teh gamerz
[21:12] <directhex_> it sold itself as having tcp/ip offloading, for improved game performance. you could also run apps on its embedded cpu, e.g. torrent client running on the nic
[21:12] <directhex_> nowadays it's just a fancy windows driver on top of a conventional firmwareless atheros gigabit chip
[21:12] <ali1234> ah okay
[21:12] <ali1234> i think i prefer it to be the latter, to be honest
[21:13] <directhex_> well, it is. the 163mb gui crap doesn't run on windows 10, so even on windows i'm using the basic ethernet driver for it
[21:13] <directhex_> description:    Qualcomm Atheros(R) AR816x/AR817x PCI-E Ethernet Network Driver
[21:14] <daftykins> had someone just yesterday with some kind of alienware laptop, atheros killer NIC was fine but the killer wireless isn't supported by Linux yet
[21:15] <directhex_> 08:00.0 Ethernet controller: Qualcomm Atheros Killer E220x Gigabit Ethernet Controller (rev 13)
[21:15] <directhex_> ooh, some unknown pci ids. /me submits
[21:18] <daftykins> killer wireless was meant to be waiting on the conversion of firmware from Windows drivers for ath10k
[21:25] <directhex_> submitted 2 new usb controllers to lspci
[21:26] <directhex_> erk forghot to unplug car
[21:29] <daftykins> heh, had to double take that sentence
[21:30] <directhex_> there we go
[21:31] <ali1234> one of my neighbours has a car charger thing on the front of his house now
[21:31] <ali1234> i did wonder how secure that was
[21:31] <directhex_> yeah, i'm waiting on the installer to get one fitted
[21:31] <ali1234> can anyone just steal electricity from them?
[21:31] <directhex_> ali1234: depends on which of the 3 vendors made it
[21:32] <ali1234> based on google images it looks like a ford focus one
[21:32] <directhex_> that's dumb, those aren't subsidized
[21:32] <ali1234> subsidized?
[21:32] <directhex_> podpoint, rolec and chargemaster are the 3 main vendors
[21:33] <directhex_> the govt pays 70% of the costs of getting an ev charger fitted, to a £900 limit
[21:33] <directhex_> so you pay £200 or less
[21:33] <directhex_> the points alone are about £450 without fitting
[21:33] <ali1234> well, i haven't seen it up close, and they all look fairly similar
[21:35] <directhex_> at any rate, rolec have a really cheapy little lock. chargemaster have an isolator switch activated via a key. i honestly don't know for podpoint
[21:36] <directhex_> so you could steal electricity relatively easily... if you have something with a type 2 mennekes socket on it
[21:36] <directhex_> or type 1 j1772
[21:36] <ali1234> like .. an electric car
[21:36] <directhex_> yes!
[21:36] <shauno> I think we make some car chargers too, oddly enough.
[21:37] <directhex_> HAH!
[21:37] <directhex_> pod point has... a padlock hole on the plug
[21:37] <directhex_> you can padlock it to its stand
[21:38] <shauno> seems like something of an afterthought
[21:38] <ali1234> i would just have an on/off switch inside the building, is that a typical thing that you get when it is installed?
[21:40] <directhex_> ali1234: well, as the home owner, you get control over the circuit breaker
[21:40] <directhex_> so you could just flip its circuit in your box
[21:41] <ali1234> that's not exactly convenient though. i was thinking more like the oven on/off switch that you have to have, by law...
[21:41] <directhex_> no, that's not a "thing"
[21:43] <daftykins> i'm sure an electrician could come up with an idea
[22:26] <directhex_> daftykins: it's a threading issue!
[22:26] <directhex_> forced single-processor execution & bioshock runs
[22:27] <daftykins> that's funky 0o
[22:28] <ball> Hmm... I should probably have said "no" when Ubuntu asked me whether to upgrade.
[22:29] <daftykins> ball: :D
[22:31] <directhex_> daftykins: i guess it's not "broken on 15.04", it's "broken on 6-core hyperthreaded processors"
[22:32] <daftykins> hmm i wonder, would disabling HT change much?
[22:32] <daftykins> i'm sure i read something about some modern games hating it at times
[22:33] <ali1234> or just set the core affinity?
[22:33] <ali1234> oh you already did that. carry on
[22:36] <directhex_> 12 threads of obscene power, only execute on one!
[22:37] <directhex_> getting that fixed would be nice
[22:37] <daftykins> only if you're a fan of that game ;)
[22:37]  * daftykins wasn't
[22:37] <penguin42> directhex_: I think processors with non-power of 2 cores freaked out simple algorithms
[22:38] <directhex_> penguin42: well, it could be that, i have NPOT cores!
[22:44] <penguin42> directhex_: Can you show me your /proc/cpuinfo ?
[22:45] <directhex_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/10903828/
[22:46] <penguin42> directhex_: OK, so 0..5 are one set of threads, 6..11 are the other set
[22:47] <penguin42> pretty much like my 4 core is 0..3,4..7
[22:47] <directhex_> seems that way
[23:23] <daftykins> keep seeing this penguin1263 and thinking "that's not our penguin!"
[23:31] <penguin42> where is that penguin?
[23:31] <daftykins> #ubuntu
[23:31] <penguin42> ah
[23:32] <daftykins> :D
[23:32] <daftykins> imposterrrr!


[17:36] <sabhain> is there a place to force DPMS in the new xorg way?  There's no "Monitor" section in my xorg.conf in 12.04


[12:04] <Kamion> LaserJock: ok, but I'd like elmo to look at that because I'm not sure what we think about clause 4 in that licence which talks about commercial contributors indemnifying all other contributors against legal damages
[12:04] <Kamion> Seveas: not that I know of - now's not a great time to ask me though, I'm just here to do some cdimage work before going to bed
[12:05] <LaserJock> Kamion: fine, just wasn't sure how to get the ball rolling ;-)
[12:08] <Lathiat> hrm, any reason the installer no longer just goes ahead and starts booting after a timeout?
[12:08] <Seveas> Kamion, ok, I'll poke the 4 of you via e-mail
[12:13] <Lathiat> hrm, does windows store the system clock in UTC?
[12:13] <Lathiat> bad to reocmend setting the system clock to UTC in the installer as im fairly sure windows doesnt do that, whichl make for some rather confused people as the times flip around?
[12:14] <wasabi_> it's determined if windows exists i believe
[12:14] <Kamion> Lathiat: various people requested me not to, see ubuntu-devel@ archives
[12:15] <Kamion> it's good for the live CD but turns out to be not so good for the install CD
[12:15] <Kamion> yes, clock-setup checks whether MS-DOS/Windows/FreeDOS is installed and defaults to non-UTC if they are
[12:16] <Kamion> if there are other operating systems installed that it's not sure about, it asks you
[12:16] <Lathiat> Kamion: ok, well i have windows and it didnt work then
[12:16] <Lathiat> on ntfs
[12:16] <Lathiat> and i set it to mount
[12:16] <Lathiat> and it suggested UTC
[12:16] <Kamion> if there are no other operating systems installed, it defaults to UTC
[12:16] <Kamion> Lathiat: please file a bug on clock-setup and attach /var/log/installer/syslog
[12:16] <Lathiat> also, whats the logic behind that?
[12:17] <Lathiat> if they install another linux or windows later..
[12:17] <Lathiat> hrm
[12:17] <Kamion> UTC is a LOT easier to deal with for all sorts of reasons
[12:17] <Kamion> there are an amazing number of bugs caused by this braindead history of having the system clock in local time (and thus having to deal with DST)
[12:17] <Lathiat> Kamion: whats the subject on u-d ?
[12:18] <Kamion> sorry, don't remember
[12:18] <Kamion> search for gfxboot I guess
[12:18] <Kamion> or Flight CD <mumble>
[12:18] <Lathiat> Kamion: ah so like your never quite sure if the time is DST or not?
[12:18] <Lathiat> we had a good one here in australia
[12:18] <Lathiat> they extended DST by a week
[12:18] <Lathiat> for the <something> games
[12:18] <StevenK> Commonwealth
[12:19] <Lathiat> i had an email to bur.st support the other day asking us to update our tzdata file so his date was right :P heh
[12:20] <Kamion> yeah, and you don't want that sort of logic having to be in the BIOS
[12:21] <Kamion> Lathiat: http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/is_your_hardware_clock_set_to_gmt-2005-07-25-02-52.html explains some of the pain involved here
[12:23] <Lathiat> cheers
[12:24] <Mithrandir> hi Lathiat
[12:25] <Kamion> Lathiat: anyway, probably os-prober failed to detect Windows properly on your system or something, hence the request for a bug report so I can see what's going on
[12:25] <Kamion> might be the old bug that os-prober doesn't deal very well with detecting operating systems on filesystems that are mounted
[12:26] <Lathiat> what information do you want?
[12:26] <Lathiat> i guess i'tl be interesting to see if it rocks up in grub
[12:26] <Kamion> 23:16 < Kamion> Lathiat: please file a bug on clock-setup and attach /var/log/installer/syslog
[12:27] <Lathiat> ah, sorry
[12:27] <Lathiat> i assume that will be there after reboot?
[12:27] <Kamion> yeah
[12:27] <Kamion> it's /var/log/syslog before reboot
[12:27] <Kamion> not world-readable after reboot though, you'll need to use root privileges to extract it
[12:28] <Lathiat> bibble?
[12:28] <Kinnison> raw photo manip' software
[12:28] <Kinnison> currently evaluating it
[12:28] <Kinnison> possibly to buy a licence
[12:29] <wasabi_> breezy->dapper upgrade on my mythtv box hosed my initrd
[12:29] <wasabi_> heh
[12:30] <wasabi_> and I can't get the grub console to appear. =/
[12:30] <Kinnison> 19862 dsilvers  16   0  647m 537m 8776 S 73.5 53.6   3:48.02 bibblepro
[12:30] <Kinnison> ouch
[12:30] <Kinnison> gotta give it kudos for using all the ram it can
[12:36] <Lathiat> Kamion: is it interesting that winxp is in the grub menu?
[12:37] <Kamion> Lathiat: somewhat, but that information should be in the syslog too
[12:49] <Lathiat> also, gah at that synaptics bug
[12:54] <sebest> hi lathiat ;)
[12:54] <Kamion> Lathiat: fixed, I think
[12:54] <Kamion> clock-setup.postinst said cat instead of echo - d'oh!
[12:54] <Lathiat> ah
[12:54] <Lathiat> sebest: hey :)
[12:55] <sebest> lathiat: i just tried xgl/compiz on my old p3 and was really surprised!
[12:55] <Lathiat> sebest: yeh Xgl is pretty nuts
[12:55] <Lathiat> thats what you ge tfor using hw accel
[12:55] <sebest> i was surprised that compiz works so well on a 750Mhz and a gforce 4 mx
[12:58] <Kamion> Lathiat: was blindingly obvious once I saw the syslog - thanks for that!
[12:58] <Lathiat> Kamion: cya :)
[12:58] <mpt> fabbione, ping
[01:00] <incinerator> ah, df 4 is out :-)
[01:00] <Kamion> incinerator: please don't rush to download it yet, it's currently just up for the mirrors to grab
[01:01] <incinerator> torrent ok?
[01:01] <Kamion> I'll announce it in the morning
[01:01] <Kamion> I guess
[01:01] <incinerator> ksznom
[01:01] <Kamion> always wise to wait for the release notes to be posted though
[01:02] <Lathiat> lots :)
[01:02] <incinerator> bah
[01:02] <incinerator> i was just looking for the daily dvd but it would not download
[01:03] <incinerator> then i decided to go for df 3 and saw that df 4 was out
[01:03] <incinerator> but thanks
[01:03] <Kamion> heh
[01:03] <Kamion> szvesen
[01:03] <incinerator> i only speak a tiny but magyarul, though
[01:04] <incinerator> ;-)
[01:04] <Kamion> likewise
[01:04] <incinerator> but i recognised the nick *ggg*
[01:06] <Kamion> my nick is not Hungarian *shrug*
[01:06] <Kamion> just a coincidence
[01:06] <Kamion> anyway, really bedtime now
[01:07] <incinerator> hehe
[01:07] <incinerator> Kamion means lorry in Hungarian btw
[01:08] <incinerator> *ggg*
[01:08] <Kamion> yeah, I'm familiar with the meaning in a number of European languages
[01:09] <Lathiat> yugh im having some nasty regressions on my laptop
[01:09] <Lathiat> i cant even stop gdm
[01:09] <Lathiat> the screen freezes up
[01:09] <Lathiat> nor does suspend work
[01:10] <mjg59> Lathiat: What have you done?
[01:10] <Lathiat> mjg59: stock install
[01:10] <Lathiat> on my precision m20
[01:10] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[01:10] <Lathiat> does anyone here have a synaptics touchpad?
[01:10] <Lathiat> like a real one
[01:11] <Lathiat> not an alps
[01:11] <mjg59> Yup
[01:11] <mjg59> Not to hand, though
[01:11] <mjg59> Can check it tomorrow
[01:11] <Lathiat> was gonna say
[01:11] <Lathiat> can you try set the minspeed/maxspeed
[01:11] <Lathiat> to 0.49, 0.63 and tell me how it affects synaptics
[01:11] <Lathiat> does it make it super fast
[01:11] <Lathiat> i'll email it to you?
[01:11] <Lathiat> cus that seems about the right value on alps
[01:11] <mjg59> Ok
[01:11] <mjg59> Yeah, alps was really slow
[01:12] <Lathiat> yeh
[01:12] <Lathiat> its driving me up the wall
[01:12] <Lathiat> i just patched the driver to that and it works nice
[01:12] <Lathiat> want to see what affect it has on synaptics
[01:12] <Lathiat> and if we have to differentiate between the two
[01:12] <Lathiat> mjg59@ubuntu ?
[01:13] <mjg59> @srcf.ucam.org
[01:14] <Lathiat> cheers
[01:14] <Lathiat> im off too, cyas
[01:20] <sebest> mjg59, i submitted a bug (and its fix) about compiz (bug 31929)
[01:20] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31929 in compiz "compiz needs glitz >= 0.5.3 for some nvidia gforce 4 mx " [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31929
[01:33] <Seveas> speaking of compiz, mjg59, I'm about to upload a debdiff to malone that splits out gnome/kde specific files
[01:38] <LaserJock> Seveas: I believe hub is working on that as well
[01:38] <esac> on breezy and dapper , during the install process, i select my wireless card (ath0). the weird part is that it is never able to get a DHCP address, i always have to set it up manually.  once ubuntu is installed, it gets a dhcp addy just fine. is this broken, or something i have to configure on my end ?
[01:41] <LaserJock> esac: you should probably try #ubuntu as this is not a support channel.
[01:46] <sebest> speaking about gnome-window-decorator, it seems that xeyes can make it crash in some conditions
[01:49] <sebest> what is the wnck applet?
[01:51] <Chipzz> Seveas: I just made a couple of my own changes to compiz too... if you want to take a look?
[01:51] <Seveas> Chipzz, no
[01:52] <Seveas> if you think they are needed in the compiz package: file bug & attach patch
[01:52] <Chipzz> Seveas: inclusion of opacity plugin, and removal of *.la and *.a from the packages
[01:52] <sebest> Chipzz , do you use compiz right now?
[01:52] <Chipzz> yes
[01:53] <sebest> could you try this: for i in `seq 1 20` ; do ( xeyes & ) ; done
[01:53] <sebest> then killall xeyes
[01:53] <sebest> it always produce a crash in gnome-window-decorator for me
[01:53] <sebest> glibc detected *** corrupted double-linked list
[01:54] <sebest> with assertion abou WNCK_IS_CLASS_GROUP
[01:55] <sebest> and also the xeyes don't expose (F12)
[01:55] <Chipzz> yups, lots of stuff crashes when killing xeyes
[01:55] <sebest> yes wnck applet and other things
[01:55] <sebest> it only happens when there is "enought" xeyes for me
[01:55] <sebest> for example 10 is not enought
[01:56] <sebest> 20 is ok
[01:56] <sebest> a problem with a link list
[02:11] <mae> will glitz/xcomposite and all that nice stuff make its way into dapper?
[02:12] <mjg59> It's in dapper
[02:12] <mae> mjg59: but i mean enabled by default with accelerated cards?
[02:12] <mjg59> No
[02:12] <mjg59> It's nowhere near ready
[02:38] <mae> omg
[02:38] <mae> i just got compiz going
[02:38] <mae> this is so wicked
[02:43] <tseng> i think you meant #ubuntu-xgl
[03:13] <zakame> morning all :D
[03:13] <LaserJock> hi zakame
[03:25] <Kyral> There is seriously an #ubuntu-xgl channel?
[03:35] <sladen> Kyral: it's where all the bling-bling crackheads are
[03:36] <Kyral> sladen: I just tried it because someone sent the email to -devel-announce ;P
[03:36] <Aegir> Mmmmm... crack...
[03:36] <Kyral> Its....interesting
[03:37] <Kyral> until I realized that I couldn't play my anime lol
[04:04] <bmonty> elmo: please sync gausssum from debian unstable
[04:17] <bmonty> elmo: please sync freewheeling from debian unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:40] <bmonty> elmo: please sync biococoa.app from debian unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:50] <bmonty> elmo: please sync slime from debian unstable
[06:44] <monzie> hi all
[06:45] <monzie> Is there any way to install the Ubuntu 5.10 live cd?
[06:45] <monzie> or should i use GNOPPIX instead?
[06:46] <zakame> hmm, any reason why not install using the Install CD?
[06:46] <monzie> yup, zakame
[06:47] <monzie> I did it at my college demo , installed knoppix onto HD while browsing net and listening to musci
[06:47] <monzie> music
[06:47] <monzie> makes for a great  demo of linux
[06:47] <monzie> any solutions?
[06:57] <zakame> hmm I dunno, anyone care to enlighten?  I hear ubuntu-express should do this one
[07:04] <LaserJock> well, that is certainly the target for dapper, but at this point I don't know how stable/bug free it is
[07:04] <LaserJock> espresso is what it is called, I believe
[07:05] <LaserJock> I think Flight4 will be released soon. It might be usable for that purpose
[07:06] <LaserJock> But I would hate to have you show how cool Ubuntu is and have it eat your hard drive or something so I would take to people who know what there doing, which is not me ;-)
[08:50] <sajid> hi
[08:50] <sajid> any one is here
[08:50] <neoxan> yeeah
[08:50] <sajid> hi dear
[08:50] <neoxan> hi baby
[08:50] <sajid> hi
[08:50] <neoxan> hi baby
[08:50] <sajid> yem
[08:50] <sajid> me fine
[08:50] <sajid> and u
[08:50] <neoxan> :D
[08:51] <neoxan> also
[08:51] <sajid> nice to see u
[08:51] <neoxan> (:
[08:51] <sajid> where from u
[08:51] <neoxan> germany, u?
[08:51] <sajid> ok
[08:51] <sajid> me also
[08:51] <sajid> but know a days not
[08:51] <sajid> know me in pakistan
[08:52] <sajid> but my othere family live in there at Germanyu
[08:52] <neoxan> :)
[08:52] <neoxan> nice =)
[08:52] <sajid> stuttguard
[08:52] <neoxan> stuttgart
[08:52] <neoxan> ^^
[08:52] <neoxan> :D
[08:52] <sajid> me elder brothere lives there
[08:52] <neoxan> hehe
[08:52] <sajid> what hee heee
[08:52] <neoxan> this is the ubuntu developer channel ;)
[08:53] <sajid> channel
[08:53] <neoxan> but i dont care, youre nice ;)
[08:53] <sajid> why
[08:53] <sajid> he are u there
[08:54] <neoxan> what?
[08:54] <sajid>       i mean are u busy
[08:54] <sajid> where  u live in Germanyu
[08:54] <neoxan> in gelsenkirchen
[08:54] <neoxan> nrw
[08:54] <neoxan> near colongne
[08:54] <sajid> ok
[08:55] <sajid> how is stuttguard from there
[08:55] <neoxan> oh, i dont know ;)
[08:55] <neoxan> some kilometers
[08:55] <sajid> ok
[08:55] <neoxan> many^^
[08:55] <sajid> are u Duetch
[08:55] <sajid> or
[08:56] <neoxan> yeah
[08:56] <sajid> nice to see u
[08:56] <neoxan> :)
[08:56] <sajid> german people are very nice
[08:56] <sajid> i like them
[08:56] <neoxan> nah, not all
[08:56] <neoxan> like every people
[08:56] <sajid> they are dont tell lie
[08:56] <neoxan> lol
[08:57] <sajid> they are handsome
[08:57] <neoxan> wtf ;)
[08:57] <sajid> and love each othere
[08:57] <sajid>  as i know
[08:57] <neoxan> nah, i dont
[08:57] <neoxan> im not proud of germany
[08:57] <sajid> what do u think about my veiws
[08:57] <sajid> ok
[08:58] <sajid>  thats good that you are not proud
[08:58] <neoxan> veiws?
[08:58] <sajid> remarks
[08:58] <neoxan> dunno what that means, sorry :)
[08:58] <sajid> ok
[08:58] <sajid>  leave it
[08:58] <sajid> what is Fenchel tea
[08:59] <neoxan> fennel tea
[08:59] <sajid> i think it is for babies
[08:59] <neoxan> i dunno, could be
[09:00] <sajid> ok
[09:00] <sajid> what is the meanig of bekommlich
[09:01] <neoxan> digestible
[09:01] <sajid> ok
[09:02] <neoxan> gonna watch a movie now :)
[09:02] <neoxan> was a nice talk with you
[09:02] <sajid> because some food has sent to me from my brother for baby
[09:02] <neoxan> cya
[09:02] <sajid> so i have discusing u
[09:03] <sajid>  ok  what is Wirkstoff
[09:03] <neoxan> agent
[09:03] <sajid> i think i have boring you
[09:03] <neoxan> no :)
[09:03] <neoxan> its ok
[09:04] <neoxan> nothing to do anyway ;)
[09:04] <sajid> nive to see u
[09:04] <sajid> what do u do
[09:04] <neoxan> compiling stuff
[09:04] <sajid> clear it
[09:05] <sajid> i dont no
[09:05] <sajid>  hi
[09:05] <sajid> are u busy
[09:05] <neoxan> no :)
[09:05] <sajid> ok
[09:05] <sajid>  i wana add u in messenger list
[09:06] <neoxan> what messanger?
[09:06] <sajid> if u like
[09:06] <sajid> chat list
[09:06] <neoxan> yeah, what kind of?
[09:06] <sajid> for future chating
[09:06] <neoxan> jabber, icq, msn?
[09:06] <sajid> teel me your chat id
[09:06] <sajid> yahoo
[09:07] <sajid> if so
[09:07] <neoxan> i dont have yahoo messanger :(
[09:07] <sajid> ok
[09:07] <sajid> tell me icq and msn
[09:07] <neoxan> 275648273
[09:07] <neoxan> icq
[09:08] <sajid> ok
[09:08] <sajid> send me your telephone no
[09:08] <neoxan> telephone? lol
[09:08] <neoxan> why?
[09:08] <sajid> i wil tell me brother who
[09:08] <sajid> will contact with u
[09:09] <sajid> just a friend
[09:09] <neoxan> lol, no, sorry
[09:09] <sajid> who live there
[09:09] <neoxan> i dont give my telefone number to anyone on the net ;)
[09:09] <sajid> ok
[09:09] <sajid> but like to
[09:09] <neoxan> hehe
[09:10] <neoxan> how old are you? :-)
[09:10] <sajid> ok
[09:10] <sajid>
[09:10] <Mithrandir> please take this discussion elsewhere, it's not related to Ubuntu development
[09:10] <neoxan> i thought so Mithrandir
[09:10] <neoxan> ;)
[09:10] <sajid> ok tel me ab+ut Ubuntu
[09:10] <Mithrandir> sajid: that's also offtopic for #ubuntu-devel; please ask user support questions in #ubuntu.
[09:11] <TheMuso> /c/
[09:11] <sajid> ok
[09:15] <sajid> hi
[09:21] <neoxan> :(
[09:21] <neoxan> this guy was so coo
[09:21] <neoxan> l
[09:21] <neoxan> lol
[09:43] <infinity> Kamion / mdz / elmo: Can someone NEW the nm-applet binary (from the network-manager source) s'il vous plait?
[09:59] <Kamion> nm-applet should surely replace network-manager
[09:59] <Kamion> (from before it was split out)
[10:00] <Kamion> damn, missed the publisher
[10:19] <infinity> Does it not?
[10:20] <mae>  i have a bug to report but i am unsure how to use malone, can someone walk me through it?
[10:20] <Kamion> infinity: nope, filed a bug
[10:20] <infinity> I'll just fix it and upload right now.
[10:20] <infinity> Bug #?
[10:21] <Kamion> mae: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+filebug, enter affected package name, one-line summary of bug, longer description of bug
[10:21] <Kamion> infinity: 31961
[10:21] <Kamion> Ubugtu: bug 31961
[10:21] <Ubugtu> malone bug 31961 in network-manager "nm-applet should Replace network-manager from before package split" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/31961
[10:27] <Kamion> (topicdiff: flight-4 done)
[10:28] <Kamion> release announcement should be in the ubuntu-announce@ moderation queue RSN
[10:28] <Kamion> jdub: if you could wave it through quickly, I'd be grateful
[10:30] <jdub> Kamion: ok
[10:30] <Kamion> ta
[10:30] <Kamion> ha, I knew doing this in the early morning UTC was a good plan
[10:30] <jdub> Kamion: i'm in spain ;-)
[10:31] <Kamion> oh well ;)
[10:36] <Lathiat> mjg59: why do we have both g-p-m and the battery applet?
[10:37] <Lathiat> mjg59: also "when laptop lid is cosed: suspend" doesnt seem to work, and it does detect lid events on this, and blanks the screen
[10:38] <Lathiat> mjg59: known?
[10:39] <Kamion> ok folks, that's two out of two NEW packages I've looked at this morning that don't use Replaces properly
[10:40] <Kamion> simple rule of thumb: when you move a file from package a to package b, b should Replaces: a (<< version-where-the-file-was-removed-from-a)
[10:40] <Kamion> remember this every time you move a file and a class of annoying bugs goes away
[10:46] <infinity> Kamion: Given that n-m was done by keybuk, I can only assume he "just forgot"... I'd hate to think the (former) dpkg maintainer doesn't how how to use "Reaplces" properly. :)
[10:47] <j^> would be nice if the olpc-sdk would be packaged for ubuntu (http://people.redhat.com/berrange/olpc/sdk/ | http://people.redhat.com/berrange/olpc/sdk/SRPMS/)
[10:50] <Kamion> infinity: yeah. doesn't apply to compiz though ...
[10:50] <fabbione> hey guys
[10:52] <Mithrandir> Kamion: unless you depend on a new enough version of package a, though.
[10:53] <fabbione> hey jdub
[10:54] <jdub> yo!
[10:57] <infinity> Mithrandir: That would work with nm-applet/network-manager, except the dependency wasn't made versioned.
[10:58] <Mithrandir> infinity: then you lose, yes.
[10:59] <infinity> s/you lose/Keybuk loses/ ;)
[10:59] <Mithrandir> well, true.
[11:01] <TheMuso> c
[11:53] <Mithrandir> infinity: can we please get rid of the silly "thunderbird profile manager" from the menu? it's annoying and I hit that instead of tbird half the time.
[11:54] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: switch to mutt :P
[11:54] <mdke> it's about the most inconsistent menu entry with MenusRevisited
[11:56] <infinity> Mithrandir: Yeah, I need to make it visible in my menu again as a reminder to remove it.
[12:07] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: mutt sucks.
[12:07] <pitti> Kamion: congrats for flight 4!
[12:38] <aquarius> Does Ubuntu have something like dehs.alioth.debian.org where I can get watch files for packages without downloading every package?
[01:01] <Treenaks> aquarius: uh...
[01:01] <Treenaks> aquarius: I don't know :)
[01:02] <Treenaks> aquarius: there's packages.ubuntu.com...
[01:06] <aquarius> packages.ubuntu.com doesn't list watch files as far as I can tell; it does list copyright files, which I also need and which I intend to use it for :)
[02:09] <mdke> so are mounted drives going to stay off the desktop from now on?
[02:10] <jsgotangco> how are we going to unmount them?
[02:10] <lmanul> There's a bug about this
[02:10] <lmanul> I'm sure this was really a decision
[02:10] <mdke> jsgotangco's question is the key one
[02:11] <mdke> you can't expect users to go to Computer every time they want to take out a pen drive
[02:11] <jsgotangco> unless it automagically unmounts when something is removed (ie, a USB)
[02:11] <mdke> i don't think that is possible, is it? you have to unmount if before removing it
[02:12] <dholbach> not necessarily, syncing is more important than unmounting before removal :)
[02:12] <jsgotangco> yes since removing is a physical action that the computer will only be aware of after it is done
[02:13] <lmanul> malon bug 28991
[02:13] <Ubugtu> malone bug 28991 in nautilus "drives icons on the desktop for dapper?" [Normal,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/28991
[02:13] <mdke> but I was always told I was risking data loss by removing drives without unmounting them
[02:13] <mdke> thanks lmanul
[02:13] <jsgotangco> dholbach, so its safe to remove? even windows *warns* you not to do that without unmounting
[02:14] <dholbach> if you run sync(1) before, it relatively is
[02:14] <dholbach> I was a bit shocked, when I saw mvo doing this the first time :)
[02:14] <jsgotangco> so how will a user do it?
[02:15] <dholbach> it's better for them to unmount, clearly
[02:16] <mdke> dholbach, so do you know if the change was intentional or not?
[02:16] <jdub> jsgotangco: with sync (and preferably flush in future), it's safe to pull
[02:17] <dholbach> mdke: I'm afraid, I don't know.
[02:17] <mdke> ok
[02:18] <jsgotangco> ahh
[02:18] <jsgotangco> ok so what's the deal with Ebuntu? =)
[02:19] <mdke> jsgotangco, it is a derivative based on e17, i think.
[02:21] <dholbach> If they don't get their stuff in the archive, they won't be a 'official sister project' - it won't happen for Dapper, I pretty much guess.
[02:21] <jsgotangco> dholbach, ok so i saw his blog today
[02:22] <mdke> i don't think e17 is stable yet, is it?
[02:22] <dholbach> I think, it's a CVS version
[02:22] <dholbach> jsgotangco: what does it say?
[02:22] <jsgotangco> 2) SphinxLinux has now been renamed Ebuntu, and will now be a derivative of Ubuntu Linux. It is expected to get official recognition, infrastructure and monetary support from Ubuntu. Have a look at it's wiki page for all the details.
[02:22] <mdke> pretty unlikely to get in the archive then
[02:22] <jsgotangco> 3) I am now an official developer for Canonical , the company behind Ubuntu. I dont get paid (it's open source honey) but i do get my own page at Launchpad  (Launchpad is where all Ubuntu development happens)
[02:22] <mdke> odd chap
[02:23] <jsgotangco> 1) I became a member of the GNOME Ubuntu team . There are only 14 such people in the world.
[02:23] <jsgotangco> I basically get to decide (along with the others) what makes and does not make it to GNOME for their next release
[02:23] <tseng> hey cool, i have a launchpad page too
[02:23] <dholbach> It's nice he gets excited about Ubuntu development like that.
[02:24] <jsgotangco> i dunno he probably was one of those in the audience when sabdfl was in bangalore
[02:24] <Mithrandir> I don't know of any promises of monetary support, though.
[02:25] <dholbach> he's monzie on irc, he was hanging around in #ubuntu-motu too
[02:29] <jsgotangco> Mithrandir, i dunno, when you get to see his dad though, you might consider it
[02:29] <Mithrandir> jsgotangco: how so?
[02:30] <jsgotangco> http://www.flickr.com/photos/manish_chaks/100091144/
[03:14] <mjg59> Kamion: Ok to break UVF for glitz? (Needed to make Xgl work on a pile of nvidia and ATI stuff, nothing in the archive rdepends on it)
[03:16] <ivoks> same question for ganglia
[03:16] <ivoks> it seems that ganglia in universe is very outdated :/
[03:17] <tseng> ivoks: universe uvf requests go to ubuntu-motu list
[03:17] <ivoks> tseng: i know :)
[03:17] <ivoks> tseng: thanks for reminding me
[03:17] <tseng> ivoks: nice try
[03:23] <zakame> ooh beowulf stuff
[03:26] <sivang> mjg59: can we make a package with some default stuff like http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=131253 instructs, that is modify gdm, add teh correct plugin loading order to gconf etc.., making a no hacking at all deb
[03:26] <mjg59> sivang: Nope
[03:27] <mjg59> Packages shouldn't screw with configuration belonging to other packages
[03:27] <mjg59> The gconf thing /should/ be simple, since it's just a gconf schema
[03:27] <mjg59> Except the gconf code in compiz is mad
[03:27] <sivang> mjg59: I see
[03:31] <sivang> mjg59: indeed those configuration changes are very simple, even for the inexperienced, so guess they could stay until more stable support is put into xgl first.
[03:54] <xhaker> hi all
[03:55] <xhaker> /usr/sbin is not in an user's PATH in dapper?
[03:58] <Spastjeh> why should a sysadmin path be in a normal user path?
[03:59] <Spastjeh> ok nm... i'm new to ubuntu :p
[04:06] <Kyral> xhaker: What are you talking about, I just echo'd my $PATH and /usr/sbin is there
[04:06] <xhaker> xhaker@dev:~$ echo $PATH
[04:07] <xhaker> ... /bin:/usr/bin
[04:07] <xhaker> not sbin
[04:07] <Kyral> at all?
[04:07] <xhaker> clean install dapper.. maybe 1 day before flight 4
[04:08] <xhaker> before this clean install i had sbin in the path and i was using dapper too
[04:08] <Kyral> I have /usr/local/sbin/:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11:/usr/games/games
[04:08] <xhaker> wow :S
[04:08] <xhaker> Kyral: new install?
[04:08] <Kyral> I dunno I'm running on my Dist-Upgraded install from Breezy back in November ;P
[04:09] <Kyral> Are you the "priveliged" user?
[04:09] <Kyral> (ie, a user that can Sudo)
[04:09] <xhaker> yes i can
[04:09] <xhaker> sudo has sbin in the path
[04:10] <Kyral> Dunno
[04:10] <Kyral> maybe its a new security feature?
[04:11] <xhaker> Kyral: so i thought
[04:11] <xhaker> but i wanted somekind of explanation
[04:11] <Kyral> I dunno, I haven't heard anything about it
[04:11] <Kyral> then again I have been very busy with school
[04:11] <xhaker> mt path is very very different than yours :P
[04:29] <BenC> is there a way to make the desktop cd recording software ignore the data I am trying to burn?
[04:29] <BenC> It doesn't like the hd image I am trying to burn
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: please sync 6.4-2.1 from unstable. thanks
[05:11] <Mithrandir> siretart: it might help if you include a package name
[05:11] <Mithrandir> rather than just a version.
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: please sync kdrill_6.4-2.1 from unstable. thanks
[05:12] <siretart> Mithrandir: argl. right. bad copy'n paste
[05:18] <slomo> siretart: better write him a mail
[05:19] <siretart> slomo: I have a quite long list with open merges. I added it to my list, so that I don't miss it at my next batch request
[05:30] <lucas> siretart: have you got some of your syncs done recently (< 2 weeks) ?
[05:30] <slomo> lucas: nope... almost no syncs were done in the last 3 weeks
[05:31] <lucas> ok
[05:44] <Kamion> xhaker: that was a bug, since fixed in the installer
[05:44] <Kamion> xhaker: to fix it on your system, run: sudo /var/lib/dpkg/info/libpam-modules.postinst configure ''
[05:44] <Kamion> mjg59: yes, sounds fine
[05:45] <Kamion> 09:52 < Mithrandir> Kamion: unless you depend on a new enough version of package a, though.
[05:45] <Kamion> Mithrandir: you'd need to pre-depend, since file overwrites are checked at unpack time, not configure time
[05:46] <Mithrandir> true
[06:04] <mdke> Kamion, I played around a little with https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WikiLicensing/Email, and I'm keen to move along with it if possible. But obviously some of the CC need to look at the wording before we look at sending it.
[06:05] <mdke> I don't know when the next meeting is, it could be done then, I suppose
[06:56] <Treenaks> Kamion: Flight 4 doesn't boot, it tells me it can't find /install/initrd.g (without the z)
[06:57] <HiddenWolf> \o/
[06:57] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: ?
[07:03] <jon_k> i've found a kernel update that has a description of "MOMMY MOMMY! Soyuz eated my previous upload!! MOMMYYYYY!!!!!"
[07:03] <jon_k> any idea if this is a compromise?
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: no, it isn't.
[07:04] <jon_k> what is it?
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: it was misplaced humor on the developer's part
[07:04] <jon_k> hm, i see
[07:04] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: a previous upload failed, so he commented on it in his new upload.
[07:05] <mdke> misplaced?
[07:05] <jon_k> well, there's nothing wrong with joking, but perhaps people should be serious when it concerns kernel updates
[07:05] <mdke> is that in breezy?
[07:05] <HiddenWolf> mdke: it's caused a LOAD of worry, discussion and filed bugs.
[07:06] <mdke> is that in breezy?
[07:06] <Treenaks> mdke: yes
[07:06] <mdke> gosh
[07:07] <jon_k> never seen such joking for kernel changelogs before
[07:07] <jon_k> sounds like someone put some nasty stuff in a new kernel and uploaded it, heh
[07:07] <Treenaks> jon_k: you've never run a development release ;)
[07:07] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: ubuntu recently switched to a new buildd system
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: I guess the update got lost due to some bug and he had to re-upload
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> that's all that happened.
[07:08] <jon_k> ah, so we can expect more funny stuff too?
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> I'd hope not.
[07:08] <HiddenWolf> Those bugs will get fixed, and that humor has no place in a -security upload. at least in my humble opinion.
[07:09] <jon_k> heh
[07:10] <jon_k> well Treenaks seems to have suggested it's commonplace with his comment
[07:10] <jon_k> heh
[07:10] <HiddenWolf> jon_k: in development versions, yeah
[07:10] <Treenaks> jon_k: in the development release, people tend to put in all kinds of weird statements in the changelogs
[07:10] <Treenaks> jon_k: but you have to be careful with security uploads :)
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> this is the upload, right? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-security-announce/2006-January/000279.html
[07:13] <HiddenWolf> Why aren't they on -changes?
[07:17] <dholbach> HiddenWolf: to me this seems to be the announce, not the upload
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> I can't find the actual upload
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> upload / changelog
[07:17] <HiddenWolf> and the announce I posted is the latest linux vunerability posted to the list
[07:18] <^rob> hey all, I saw the screenshots posted up for UbuntuExpress and noticed that hostname is present when it is not on the mockups, was this intentional?
[07:23] <maswan> ooh, some demand for flight-4
[07:23] <maswan> Kamion: root@tutankhamon[pts/0] :~# currenthttpxfers | grep -c flight-4
[07:23] <maswan> Kamion: 34
[07:24] <maswan> Kamion: then multiply by four for our four frontends and you have approximately the number of current downloads
[07:27] <siretart> gnarf. anyone knows a lazy mirror for jigdo'ing flight4?
[07:27] <siretart> I'm only missing a few files related to ltsp and xserver :(
[07:29] <sivang> rehi all
[07:31] <Treenaks> Nobody else is having problems booting Flight 4?
[07:38] <siretart> Treenaks: I just booted flight4 on x86. the machine showed me bootsplash and all (gnome didn't start because it was just a 64mb machine)
[07:39] <Treenaks> siretart: hm.. when I try to start, I get an error about '/install/initrd.g' not being available
[07:39] <Treenaks> siretart: (note: not .gz)
[07:47] <^rob> ok hostname in ubuntu express is filed at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-express/+bug/32010
[07:47] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32010 in ubuntu-express "should not contain hostname field" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[08:08] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: what arch?
[08:09] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: i386
[08:09] <Treenaks> I'm re-burning now (3rd time)
[08:20] <kbrooks> does anyone here know what dapper+1 will have
[08:21] <Treenaks> lots of crack :)
[08:21] <kbrooks> 6.04, 7.10
[08:21] <kbrooks> no. wait.
[08:21] <Mithrandir> 6.10, rather
[08:21] <kbrooks> 6.10, 7.04
[08:21] <kbrooks> yes thank you very much
[08:28] <ploum> kbrooks: yes : GNOME 2.16
[08:28] <Treenaks> ploum: you win :)
[08:29] <kbrooks> ploum, i wonder when 3.0 will come out
[08:29] <ploum> kbrooks: after 2.98
[08:29] <ploum> of course
[08:30] <ploum> then it will be april 2047
[08:30] <ploum> But it will rocks..
[08:31] <lemsto> is there a way in gnome to asign an application to a desktop? for example, all new firefox windows will be launched in desktop 3...
[08:31] <lemsto> if its not possible, thats an idea of new feature :p
[08:31] <ploum> lemsto: I've already such a feature request
[08:32] <lemsto> ploum, so isn't possible yet?
[08:32] <ploum> Someone on pgo talked about a program that does this work
[08:32] <winkle> metacity doesn't support it, other wms does...
[08:32] <ploum> I'm not sure
[08:32] <winkle> i doubt metacity will target such a feature..
[08:33] <lemsto> have you a link about any project for gnome?
[08:33] <ploum> lemsto: I'm searching  (don't you see the little magnifier animation ? ;-) )
[08:34] <lemsto> hehehe
[08:34] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: (burn #3, md5sum match, no boot: 'Could not find ramdisk image /install/initrd.g')
[08:34] <ploum> lemsto: try this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=75749  I'm not sure it's what you want but it's the only thing like this I know
[08:35] <lemsto> ploum, ok! thank u
[08:35] <jdub> lemsto: look into devilspie
[08:35] <aquarius> lemsto: devilspie will do that sort of thing.
[08:35] <aquarius> oh, that'll teach me to pay more attention
[08:36] <lemsto> thanks all
[08:36] <ploum> it was indeed devil's pie I was talking about
[08:38] <ploum> jdub: is it possible to already have an ubuntu-be mailing list ?
[08:38] <Treenaks> ploum: when's your talk again? and are -nl people allowed in? :P
[08:39] <ploum> Treenaks: of course !
[08:39] <ploum> I will be very pleased to meet other ubuntu people !
[08:39] <ploum> I will even try to speak in dutch
[08:39] <ploum> (so it can be funny)
[08:40] <ploum> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam : Sat 25 feb at 14h, Room H3227 or H3228
[08:41] <Treenaks> http://webdemo.ns.nl/e2000.html :)
[08:43] <ploum> Treenaks: will you make some more moviegotchi at FOSDEM ?
[08:44] <Treenaks> ploum: good idea!
[08:44] <Treenaks> ploum: I still need to find a place to sleep though :(
[08:45] <ploum> Treenaks: ok, I will look
[08:46] <ploum> Maybe you can sleep in my "kot"
[08:46] <Chipzz> ploum: you're belgian too? :)
[08:47] <ploum> Chipzz: yes
[08:47] <ploum> so are you ?
[08:47] <ploum> Chipzz: please read  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeam :-)
[08:47] <ploum> I'm from Louvain-la-Neuve
[08:48] <Chipzz> ploum: I'll see if I can make the meeting, but I'll be running around with a "staff" tshirt ;)
[08:48] <ploum> I see
[08:49] <Chipzz> network and stuff :P
[08:49] <jdub> ploum: don't worry, i'll blindfold and steal him :)
[08:50] <Chipzz> hi jdub :)
[08:51] <ploum> Chipzz: I will have a tshirt with "I was your annoying interviewer !"
[08:51] <ploum> :-D
[08:51] <Chipzz> ploum: *grin* :)
[08:55] <ploum> jdub: Thank you for coming. I didn't tell it to the others. Can you make an apparition with smoke, light and all that sort of things ?
[08:56] <ploum> with a voice coming from the grave telling : "and now ladies and gentlemen, the fearless, the hairless, the sleepless MARK SHUTTLEWORTH"
[08:56] <ploum> uh..
[08:56] <ploum> no
[08:56] <ploum> Jeff Waugh
[08:56] <ploum> that's it !
[08:56] <jdub> i will try to eat something that makes me gassy that day
[08:59] <Kamion> Treenaks: sorry, absolutely no idea why that might be happening
[09:00] <Treenaks> Kamion: hmm..
[09:01] <Treenaks> Kamion: could it be a different manifestation of the bug where the 'boot from hard-disk' disk wasn't detected correctly?
[09:02] <sebest> ploum: hello, any update on bug 6260 ?
[09:02] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6260 in network-manager "network-manager breaks avahi" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6260
[09:02] <Kamion> Treenaks: can't imagine how
[09:02] <Kamion> Treenaks: have you tried editing the command line to see what it looks like?
[09:03] <Treenaks> Kamion: yes (F6, right?)
[09:03] <Treenaks> Kamion: that looks OK
[09:03] <ploum> sebest: indeed, it's avahi 0.6.7
[09:04] <sebest> ploum: and is it with wifi?
[09:04] <ploum> yes
[09:04] <sebest> only?
[09:04] <ploum> yes, wifi only
[09:04] <sebest> just to introduce myself, i'm an avahi dev, so i'd like to fix this issue
[09:05] <ploum> Oh, I understand :-)
[09:05] <sebest> so i'm trying to track the issue, because i'm als using nm (with ipw2100) and i can't reproduce this issue :)
[09:06] <sebest> so i'm trying to find if it's related to a driver or a bug in avahi / nm
[09:06] <Kamion> Treenaks: er, whatever key is listed for "Other Options", I think it's F5
[09:06] <Kamion> Treenaks: and what if you edit that to add an extra random character to the end of the initrd= argument?
[09:06] <sebest> ploum: does avahi crash or just stop "announcing/browsing" ?
[09:06] <Treenaks> Kamion: trying, brb
[09:07] <sebest> ploum: it would be great, if you could run avahi-daemon in debug mode in a console, just issue "sudo avahi-daemon --debug". And some infos about your setup (driver/cards) and how you can reproduce it
[09:07] <ploum> sebest: how can I test this optimally ?
[09:09] <ploum> sebest: I will try
[09:09] <ploum> but I must reinstall NM
[09:09] <sebest> ploum: with the cli tool avahi-browse -a you can test that avahi-daemon is browsing
[09:09] <sebest> avahi-publish allows you to publish some test services
[09:10] <ploum> I don't have avahi-browse nor publish
[09:10] <ploum> (in fact I'm a total newbie in avahi)
[09:10] <ploum> hm.. NM is not working correctly
[09:11] <ploum> apt-get install avahi-utils
[09:11] <Treenaks> Kamion: no luck, when changing that
[09:11] <Treenaks> Kamion: Server mode boots correctly though (haven't tried OEM)
[09:12] <sebest> ploum: yes
[09:13] <sebest> ploum: i'll explain you , it's quite easy
[09:13] <sebest> in one terminal you run "avahi-browse -a", it will discover all announced services on your lan
[09:14] <ploum> sebest: done
[09:14] <ploum> With NM working !
[09:14] <sebest> do you see any service?
[09:14] <ploum> I see :
[09:14] <ploum>  avahi-browse -a
[09:14] <ploum> + ath0 IPv4 mars [00:11:95:91:97:0d]                       Workstation          local
[09:15] <sebest>  avahi-publish-service "test service" _test._tcp 1
[09:15] <ploum> sebest: it appears !
[09:15] <sebest> this command will publish a fake service
[09:15] <sebest> if you ctrl+c avahi-publish-service, it should dissapear
[09:15] <sebest> in avahi-browse
[09:16] <ploum> yes, I see a "-"
[09:16] <Treenaks> Kamion: on what should I file the bug (so you can look at it when it's not Sunday evening ;)
[09:16] <sebest> from this point it seems that everything is working properly
[09:16] <ploum> so I cannnot confirm the bug anymore, I'm sorry
[09:16] <sebest> maybe you could try switching to wired
[09:16] <ploum> Ihave confirmed because the avahi-discover window was empty
[09:16] <ploum> sebest: I don't have wired connection
[09:16] <ploum> (too far)
[09:17] <sebest> you could just cut the wifi connection
[09:17] <sebest> and put it back
[09:17] <ploum> with NM ?
[09:17] <sebest> yes for example
[09:17] <Treenaks> ploum: just press the 'wifi kill switch' on your machine
[09:17] <sebest> avahi-browse will display that services dissappear
[09:17] <sebest> and they should reappear on reconnection automatically
[09:17] <ploum> I don't have one ;-) I'm on a desktop, not a laptop
[09:18] <sebest> avahi-daemon, uses netlink to notice when an iface goes up or down
[09:19] <sebest> ploum: nm dosn't allow to stop the wifi connection?
[09:19] <ploum> sebest: I understand the thing
[09:19] <ploum> sadly, it works
[09:19] <ploum> (absurd humor ;-) )
[09:19] <sebest> sadly? :)
[09:20] <Chipzz> sebest: what package is actually responsible for seeing the list of available services in nautilus?
[09:20] <ploum> sebest: I killed NM then restarted it
[09:20] <ploum> all is working as expected
[09:20] <sebest> Chipzz gnome-vfs i think
[09:20] <ploum> I think my previous problem was due to NM and iface working at the same time on the same interface
[09:20] <ploum> but NM was upgraded
[09:20] <Chipzz> sebest: I didn't see a service published on another box before, but after installing avahi-utils I can see it
[09:20] <ploum> and only work with interfaces not used by iface
[09:21] <Chipzz> sebest: well, no, because without avahi-daemon avahi-utils libavahi-core3 libdaemon0 I don't see it
[09:21] <Chipzz> sebest: I'm guessing at least one of these packages is needed on the client side?
[09:21] <sebest> Chipzz: you need avhai-daemon, libavahi-cores3 and libdaemon0
[09:21] <sebest> avahi-utils are optionnal cli tools
[09:22] <sebest> Chipzz yes, you need the client libs and the avahi-daemon
[09:22] <Chipzz> sebest: aha :)
[09:22] <sebest> gnome-vfs use the  libavahi
[09:22] <sebest> when available :)
[09:23] <sebest> Chipzz, you can use gnome-user-share it uses avahi to publish it's webdav share
[09:23] <sebest> its
[09:23] <ploum> the bug that makes me mad about NM : http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=331529
[09:23] <Ubugtu> gnome2 bug 331529 in Default "Unlocking gnome-keyring must no be needed at each connection" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[09:23] <Chipzz> sebest: nah nevermind, I'm not a newbie :P
[09:24] <sebest> ploum: i'll close the bug 6260
[09:24] <Ubugtu> malone bug 6260 in network-manager "network-manager breaks avahi" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/6260
[09:24] <Chipzz> sebest: I publish sftp from my storage box
[09:24] <ploum> sebest: I commented on it
[09:24] <sebest> ploum : great
[09:24] <ploum> maybe the initial reporter has still the bug ?
[09:25] <ploum> I never understanded the "Preferences > Personnal File Sharing" what will be shared ?
[09:25] <sebest> ploum: i don't think so, because we closed a bug in 0.6.6 really similar to the issue you and he reported
[09:25] <sebest> ploum: in create a folder "Public" in the home
[09:25] <sebest> and this folder is shared using webdav and announced on the lan using avahi
[09:26] <Treenaks> sebest: wow, which packages do I need for that?
[09:28] <sebest> Treenaks, gnome-user-share
[09:28] <sebest> it's from alexander larsson
[09:29] <ploum> sebest: and how can someone access it ?
[09:31] <sebest> ploum, using nautilus
[09:31] <sebest> nautilus, will discover and display it in network places
[09:31] <ploum> sebest: that's cool ! I will try to make it working :-)
[09:31] <ploum> thanks
[09:31] <sebest> i think that mac os x will also see it
[09:32] <Treenaks> sebest: _wow_ :)
[09:34] <ploum> go to lunch !
[09:34] <ploum> goodbye
[09:34] <sebest> ploum: bye ;)
[09:34] <ploum> see you saturday :-)
[09:34] <sebest> Treenaks, i just tested, MacOSX see the share
[09:35] <Kamion> Treenaks: gfxboot will do for starters
[09:35] <Treenaks> Kamion: OK, thanks
[09:46] <de_wizze> hello devs, I had an idea and wanted to verify the feasability
[09:48] <de_wizze> with the current operation of the sound device in *nix OSes it operates on a first come first serve basis
[09:48] <Treenaks> have you looked at the 'default sound device' dialog in dapper? :)
[09:49] <de_wizze> no not recently I haven't had it installed yet .. why is it different?
[09:49] <Treenaks> you can select the 'default' sound device in there now
[09:49] <Treenaks> and I don;t know for sure, but I think it does stuff with ~/.asoundrc or something (pitti?)
[09:51] <de_wizze> but what I was saying is a bit different .. is it or could it possible to have the functionality that esd and arts, etc. moved into the kernel space
[09:52] <de_wizze> mainly the ability to spawn threads for each open() done on /dev/dsp
[09:52] <ploum> de_wizze: in an ideal world, this functionnality would be in the kernel
[09:52] <ploum> that's the goal of dmis AFAIK
[09:53] <de_wizze> efectively removing th concept of dead locks ... right?
[09:53] <ploum> but if you can convince kernel developpers, I will buy you a lot of beers ;-)
[09:53] <Treenaks> dmix
[09:53] <ploum> indeed, dmix
[09:53] <de_wizze> whats their apprehension ?
[09:53] <Treenaks> de_wizze: dmix is user-space
[09:54] <Treenaks> de_wizze: as long as you don't use OSS, it Just Works already
[09:54] <ploum> Treenaks: but the naughty bit is that some apps use OSS
[09:54] <ploum> Flash for example
[09:54] <ploum> and that sucks
[09:54] <ploum> and ALSA drivers or often very buggy
[09:54] <Treenaks> ploum: Then those apps need fixing, not the kernel or ALSA or whatever
[09:55] <Treenaks> ploum: they are? file bugs! :)
[09:55] <ploum> They are filled ;-)
[09:55] <de_wizze> yeah ... so alsa does provide that capability ... it just a matter of uptake then ?
[09:55] <Treenaks> de_wizze: yeah
[09:55] <Treenaks> basically
[09:55] <ploum> de_wizze: yes
[09:55] <de_wizze> and I guess  upkeep as you pointed out
[09:56] <ploum> but things are really better now than 2 years agor
[09:56] <ploum> ago
[09:56] <ploum> really
[09:56] <de_wizze> yeah I know ...
[09:56] <de_wizze> I was just wondering why those last few(or not so few) sets of apps still had the same problem
[09:57] <de_wizze> tying up the sound device
[09:57] <ploum> de_wizze: flash because it's proprietary software
[09:57] <de_wizze> so true ...
[09:58] <de_wizze> but at lease in the other aspects where there aren't those barriers it good to know that progress is being made
[09:59] <de_wizze> keep up the good work :)
[10:10] <shaya> at-spi seems really messed up
[10:10] <shaya> causes my dapper gnome desktop to misbehave badly
[10:12] <dholbach> shaya: What happens?
[10:13] <shaya> 1) w/ cvs gaim it causes a libc double free error whenever I change away messages
[10:13] <shaya> 2) w/ gnome terminal in dapper, it basically causes any "new" tabs opened in gnome-termlnal to hang
[10:13] <shaya> those are 2 things that I've isolated to at-spi package being installed
[10:14] <dholbach> shaya: did you file bugs?
[10:14] <shaya> just filed bug against #1
[10:14] <dholbach> shaya: file one for the second please too
[10:14] <shaya> bug 32029
[10:14] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32029 in at-spi "double free error when at-spi is installed" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32029
[10:14] <shaya> hmm
[10:14] <shaya> :)
[10:15] <shaya> didn't know about that bot
[10:17] <shaya> and now there's a new bug
[10:17] <shaya> bug 32036
[10:17] <Ubugtu> malone bug 32036 in at-spi "causes new tabs in gnome-terminal to hang" [Normal,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/32036
[10:17] <shaya> hmm, bugs are filed rapidly
[10:18] <shaya> 6 bugs filed b/w mine
[10:18] <dholbach> shaya: is that a complete back trace? what did you trace? could you install back traces?
[10:18] <shaya> dholbach: no
[10:18] <shaya> I couldn't redo it
[10:19] <dholbach> shaya: it isn't reproducible?
[10:19] <shaya> gdb kept on failing when I tried to redo the baktrace
[10:19] <shaya> no
[10:19] <shaya> the bug is
[10:19] <shaya> gdb'ing fails
[10:19] <dholbach> hum
[10:19] <shaya> the bug is very reproducable
[10:19] <dholbach> how does it fail?
[10:19] <shaya> "can't attach" or something
[10:19] <shaya> dont want to install at-spi back onto my laptop right now to test
[10:19] <shaya> as need to do some real work
[10:20] <shaya> basically, when I gdb /opt/gaim/bin/gaim
[10:20] <shaya> it runs
[10:20] <shaya> then stops with some "thread info" error
[10:20] <dholbach> shaya: I'll ask some questions on the bug report - it'd be nice if you could follow up.
[10:20] <shaya> I then "c" it
[10:20] <shaya> and now it errors it
[10:20] <shaya> but when I got the backtrace it continued normally
[10:20] <dholbach> gdb <program>
[10:20] <dholbach> (gdb) handle SIG33 pass nostop noprint
[10:20] <dholbach> (gdb) run <arguments, if any>
[10:20] <shaya> changed away message, and it died w/ the error
[10:20] <dholbach> that might help
[10:21] <shaya> I can try later today
[10:21] <dholbach> Cool. I'll post the information on the bug report.
[10:21] <dholbach> We'll need to get more information into the bug report, so we can forward it upstream.
[10:22] <shaya> problem came about because I was testing the at interfaces to try and use it to be a log of everything ones sees while working, "i.e. you read an email, deleted it, but now realize you need it"
[10:31] <tk401> hello everyone
[10:32] <tk401> anyone alive?
[10:33] <tk401> hey hunger
[10:33] <shaya> dholbach: the error is thread_db_get_info: cannot get thread info: generic error
[10:33] <shaya> I then cont it and it get
[10:34] <shaya> Cannot remove breakpoints because program is no longer writable.
[10:34] <shaya> It might be running in another process.
[10:34] <dholbach> shaya: even with the instructions I pointed to in the bug report?
[10:34] <shaya> yep
[10:35] <shaya> I can try w/o tls
[10:35] <dholbach> you shouldn't have to continue at all
[10:35] <shaya> it goes starting program
[10:35] <shaya> thread debugging...
[10:35] <shaya> new thread
[10:35] <shaya> ....
[10:35] <shaya> a few times
[10:35] <shaya> then the error
[10:36] <dholbach> hmmmm
[10:37] <dholbach> shaya: thanks - could you follow up with that information on the bug report too?
[10:38] <shaya> ok
[10:39] <shaya> done
[10:42] <dholbach> cool
[11:46] <setuid> Anyone know why cups/lpr has been broken in Ubuntu? Its lobotomized, and doesn't work at all.
[11:46] <setuid> But upstream, unpatched, unmodified cups works flawlessly, of course.
[12:02] <shaya> I'm confused by recent changes to network-manager, it seems the patches included w/ it prevent it from seeing my madwifi wireless card?