[21:01] <phillw> Hi good people, I am seeing bug 1204005 as it is a kernel panic, I have no logs. Is it sufficient to state 'affects me', and add in what I saw happen in the comment area?
[21:01] <ubot2`> Launchpad bug 1204005 in linux (Ubuntu) "[saucy] kvm host hangs of guest boot with 3.10.0-5" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1204005
[21:10] <Ampelbein> phillw: Seeing that a kernel developer marked it triaged it is enough to mark "Affects me" and subscribe to keep updated.
[21:11] <phillw> Ampelbein: thanks :)


[02:57] <OerHeks> 17.10 – name TBD ?? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/02/06/shuttleworth_unity_8_carrots/
[03:12] <Bashing-om> ^^ In it for the long haul and foraging ahead :)
[03:13] <OerHeks> there be dragons ..
[03:17] <Bashing-om> Yeah ! there do be them there dragons . I updated 17.04 today running gnome3, the upgrade hung for minutes .. and I thought it had fallen on it's face, but when I retured from my fumming the system had picked up and was goin on :) . Mir on 17.04 does not bode well for me .
[03:29] <OerHeks> hbd .. hbe .. hbf .. ~.. hbo here be Oerheks \0/ .. that would be 23.04
[03:33] <Bashing-om> But, But - bbbuttt ,, does it run on my desktop .. and no ?? what must I then do to make it happen ! That is the only important question .
[03:36] <OerHeks> :-( not sure why you cannot run mir properly
[03:36] <daftykins> try speaking with a more Russian accent near your PC!
[03:37] <OerHeks> da
[03:37] <OerHeks> here be wodka!
[03:37] <daftykins> :>
[03:38] <Bashing-om> OerHeks: Not messed with it enough to see . The kernel is fine . just what is laid on top ( and the lack thereof - that will come in time ) .
[03:40] <OerHeks> police helicopters over my house, there must be someone on the run
[03:41] <daftykins> uh oh Drabber has been robbing banks whilst you sleep, again
[03:41] <OerHeks> He does know my pin code ...
[03:41] <daftykins> :O
[03:43] <Bashing-om> In the finest of doggie voices - Do not force me - I will use this if I have to :) Marrow bone now please .
[03:45] <OerHeks> cookie he understands, he does not like a bone to chew on :-(
[03:45] <OerHeks> which is sad, i know
[03:48] <Bashing-om> some peoples' taste ! :)
[03:49] <OerHeks> He does not like human cookies too .. which is good.
[03:49] <OerHeks> :-D
[03:49] <OerHeks> so no yellow/brown teeth .. no skin issues ..
[03:49] <OerHeks> no cheese, no meat prepared ...
[03:50] <OerHeks> But i always make sure there are enough dog-treats.
[03:50] <OerHeks> .. my moms dogs are different, they eat anything :-(
[03:51] <Bashing-om> Ever want to see a hurt expression : " chocolate is not for doggies " .
[03:52] <OerHeks> brrr .. choco can kill them
[03:52] <OerHeks> No, the vet is always happy to see me.
[03:53] <OerHeks> shiny soft hair .. without shampoo ( just brush it every 2 days)
[03:54] <Bashing-om> Ouch! reminds me I am behind in the brushing department :(
[03:55] <OerHeks> :-)
[03:55] <OerHeks> You look much nicer with shiny hair, Bashing-om
[03:56] <Bashing-om> so my other half also reminds me . ( Brush that hair !)
[06:34] <Bashing-om> Had all I can stand, can stands no more . good nite .
[07:00] <ducasse> good morning
[09:05] <lordievader> Good morning
[11:18] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[15:06] <OerHeks> la la la la hi lotus ;-D
[15:06] <ducasse> hiya lotus :)
[15:06] <lotuspsychje> hellow OerHeks & ducasse :p
[15:07] <ducasse> home from work? :)
[15:07] <lotuspsychje> and howdy BluesKaj
[15:07] <lotuspsychje> ducasse: yep, finished early shift
[15:07] <BluesKaj> hey lotuspsychje LTNS!
[15:08] <BluesKaj> Hi OerHeks :-)
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> i had discussion the other about if linux needs a clean in a while or not, what you guys think?
[15:08] <lotuspsychje> *day
[15:09] <lotuspsychje> the guy said his system run 18 years and never had to clean nothing
[15:09] <OerHeks>  Clean? like in cruft files from removed apps?
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: yeah overal system clean/optimize
[15:10] <OerHeks> indeed, never had any issue with  that.
[15:10] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: but does it mean linux doesnt get junk files?
[15:11] <ducasse> i've never really done any cleanup, other than apt autoremove and cleaning up my homedir now and then.
[15:11] <OerHeks> That is right.
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> so whats the need of janitor or bleachbit then? how can it wipe 2gig or more?
[15:11] <OerHeks> only logs can do some drivespace-eating.. but logrotate takes care of that.
[15:11] <lotuspsychje> browser stuff? /tmp?
[15:12] <OerHeks> bleachit.. it can remove 2 gb, but 24 hrs later there is 1 gb back...
[15:12] <ducasse> tmp is cleaned on boot
[15:12] <lotuspsychje> right
[15:12] <ducasse> bleachbit probably cleans ~/.cache or something.
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> how about /boot ?
[15:13] <lotuspsychje> we had some users with full /boot to get solved with bleachbit
[15:14] <ducasse> it cleans out old kernels.
[15:14] <OerHeks> oh kernels .. that is an issue indeed.
[15:14] <ducasse> which _should_ happen by itself.
[15:16] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse, OerHeks once saw a user with like kernels from years far in his list
[15:17] <ducasse> i don't doubt that.
[15:18] <lotuspsychje_> perhaps for advanced users they know howto maintaint their system, everything stays smooth?
[15:18] <lotuspsychje_> but novice can scramble their systems over the years right
[15:18] <ducasse> of course, if you manually build and install tons of crap from github and don't bother making packages, there can be stuff left over that you no longer use.
[15:20] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: so lets say, it all depends on the user habits?
[15:21] <ducasse> well, yes, but it's normally a much smaller problem than on windows with modern distros and package management.
[15:22] <OerHeks> autoremove should be an option while upgrading.
[15:22] <OerHeks> distroupgrading does this fine
[15:22] <ducasse> you mean it should prompt the user?
[15:22] <OerHeks> no prompt, just an option in update/sources menu
[15:23] <lotuspsychje_> good idea
[15:23] <ducasse> sounds good to me. seen plenty of users who suddenly have 100+ packages the system wants to remove.
[15:23] <OerHeks> "allways install latest versions and remove old unused ones"( carefull bla bla bla)
[15:23] <lotuspsychje_> lol
[15:24] <lotuspsychje_> OerHeks: but old unused kernels arent like vulnerable when not in use right?
[15:24] <OerHeks> as opt in, else true linux diehards have something to shout @ SABDFL
[15:25] <ducasse> sure, it could be an apt preference
[15:25] <OerHeks> old kernels can't be a securityrisc indeed
[15:25] <lotuspsychje_> unless you boot them
[15:26] <lotuspsychje_> i would also find it good idea to add default janitor to the system, so users left the choice to clean ot not
[15:26] <lotuspsychje_> so if you dont need, dont use, but when you scramble alot you had the choice
[15:27] <ducasse> autoremove could also run as a cron job...
[15:27] <ducasse> but a 'janitor' would have a really hard time cleaning out manually installed stuff. i can't see how that could happen.
[15:28] <lotuspsychje_> system warns to autoremive in terminal now right, perhaps the GUI warning like OerHeks says, would be good idea
[15:28] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: yeah indeed, messing with github/ppa's will always exist
[15:29] <BluesKaj> I run autremove and autoclean periodically, like once/week or so without any ill effects
[15:29] <ducasse> ppas aren't a problem, they are managed by apt. built from source are just files.
[15:30] <ducasse> BluesKaj: manually or from cron?
[15:31] <BluesKaj> ducasse, when I think of it :-)
[15:31] <ducasse> good answer :)
[15:32] <lotuspsychje_> !info janitor
[15:32] <lotuspsychje_> !find janitor
[15:36] <BluesKaj> always make a point of deleting ppas after testing use to prevent further problems
[15:37] <OerHeks> users who do not update in terminal, are surprised by full-upgrade
[15:37] <OerHeks> that could be a real complaint
[15:37] <lotuspsychje_> OerHeks: surprised how?
[15:37] <OerHeks> newer kernel as example
[15:38] <lotuspsychje_> ah yes
[15:38] <ducasse> are they held back by the gui?
[15:38] <OerHeks> maybe there is a difference LTS <> non-LTS, not sure about that
[15:38] <lotuspsychje_> but the average users have no clue whats going on behind the process
[15:39] <lotuspsychje_> i see alot of my customers avoid updates still lol
[15:39] <lotuspsychje_> everytime i come to their house, update icon is active
[15:39] <OerHeks> oh, i press the update button, kernels are offered here...
[15:42] <ducasse> lotuspsychje_: they're probably scared of them, coming from windows :)
[15:42] <BluesKaj> I give new kernels at least a weeks delay if not longer..learned my lesson the hard way with this older HW/drivers
[15:43] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: lol
[15:44] <OerHeks> reboot, brb
[15:45] <ducasse> bah, reboots. humbug! ;)
[15:46] <OerHeks> 1 minute including logging in ircd \0/
[15:46] <ducasse>  16:46:38 up 313 days,  9:48,  4 users,  load average: 0.62, 0.16, 0.09
[15:47] <OerHeks> 16:46:55 up 1 min,  1 user,  load average: 0,74, 0,51, 0,20
[15:48] <ducasse> that was my fileserver, though. it just chugs away unloved in a small room.
[15:49] <ducasse> lotuspsychje_: what's happening on the business side?
[15:50] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: still working on my room mate, going slowly
[15:50] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: but meanwhile i can make costs for my business np
[15:51] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: ordered like 10 850 pro ssd's already in case of upgrades
[15:51] <ducasse> raid-6!
[15:52] <lotuspsychje_> lol
[15:52] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: cant be greedy, not holding them back for myself :p
[15:53] <ducasse> i know. sad, though, to sit on so much nice hw you can't use.
[15:53] <lotuspsychje_> :p
[15:54] <ducasse> when i worked ay\t the norwegian branch of sun, we had some _nice_ hardware, and the upside was that we could play with it for testing :)
[15:54] <ducasse> *at
[15:57] <lotuspsychje_> nice
[15:57] <lotuspsychje_> ducasse: you worked for SUN?.
[15:57] <ducasse> yes, this was a long time ago :)
[15:58] <lotuspsychje_> cool mate
[15:59] <ducasse> gtg, bbl
[16:03] <horsewhip> What do people use for password management?
[16:03] <horsewhip> Anyone use anything that works across Linux, Mac & iOS?
[16:04] <DArqueBishop> horsewhip: personally I use KeePass.
[16:04] <horsewhip> DArqueBishop: On what devices?
[16:05] <DArqueBishop> KeePass in Windows, KeePassX on Linux, and MiniKeePass on iOS.
[16:06] <horsewhip> I didn't know MiniKeePass had any kind of syncing.
[16:07] <DArqueBishop> It supports Dropbox.
[16:07]  * horsewhip reads the docs
[16:07] <horsewhip> Hmmmm, not much of a fan of Dropbox.
[16:08] <horsewhip> Ahhh, you have to manually export the DB back to Dropbox.
[16:11]  * DArqueBishop nods.
[16:11] <DArqueBishop> Considering how infrequently I make changes on the mobile side, it's a non-issue doe me.
[16:11] <DArqueBishop> s/doe/for/
[16:13] <horsewhip> I'm currently checking out https://www.passwordstore.org/
[16:13] <horsewhip> ... and https://github.com/mssun/pass-ios
[18:47] <Bashing-om> OK, been a trying morning ! I am ready to have fun now :)
[19:08] <ducasse> hiya Bashing-om - how have you been?
[19:26] <Bashing-om> OH. aggravated ! Stopped up water line from the well head to the house - made a work-a-round for that , and this AM found water leaks under the house . Water has been restored . // lm-sensors -> w83627ehf driver -> chip ID ?? Getting my goat ( old docs ! ) .
[19:30] <ducasse> sounds like a heap of fun. i've just spent three hours helping my elderly neighbors set up a new tv. the store forgot to include the stand, so we had to go back and yell at them, but after a lot of mucking about it's up and running.
[19:32] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Life's little troubles, only makes the respite that much more enjoyable . Peace !
[19:33] <ducasse> Bashing-om: yup. at least they're happy. i'm getting something to eat, and then i'm going to crash on the couch. ttyl!
[19:33] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Naps are good things :)
[19:34] <ducasse> Bashing-om: no nap, just a little relaxing before bedtime :)
[19:36] <Bashing-om> K; I do what I can to hold it together 'til you return :)
[19:36] <ducasse> Bashing-om: ttyl :)
[19:51] <Bashing-om> ducasse: Uh Huh - just can not tear your self away form the keyboard .
[19:54] <ducasse> Bashing-om: installed updates, but going.... now ;)
[19:54] <ducasse> *poof*


[22:46] <KGB-X> deja-dup signed tags 7ad1f20 Jeremy Bicha upstream/45.1 * Upstream version 45.1 * https://deb.li/c5f2
[22:47] <KGB-X> deja-dup upstream/latest aace37d Jeremy Bicha * pushed 47 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3973C
[22:47] <KGB-X> deja-dup upstream/latest d1e6cce Jürgen Benvenuti po/de.po * Update German translation * https://deb.li/3x3Bh
[22:47] <KGB-X> deja-dup upstream/latest 50d92ba Sabri Ünal po/tr.po * Update Turkish translation * https://deb.li/ilCKc
[22:47] <KGB-X> deja-dup upstream/latest acc4122 Yuri Chornoivan po/uk.po * Update Ukrainian translation * https://deb.li/REx
[22:47] <KGB-X> deja-dup upstream/latest a1fe417 Asier Sarasua Garmendia po/eu.po * Update Basque translation * https://deb.li/3xs0E
[22:47] <KGB-X> deja-dup upstream/latest 57de5d3 Piotr Drąg po/pl.po * Update Polish translation * https://deb.li/beel
[22:48] <KGB-X> deja-dup pristine-tar f1d0bf4 Jeremy Bícha deja-dup_45.1.orig.tar.bz2.delta deja-dup_45.1.orig.tar.bz2.id * pristine-tar data for deja-dup_45.1.orig.tar.bz2 * https://deb.li/3vp2I
[23:40] <KGB-X> Extension Manager signed tags 6803060 Jeremy Bicha upstream/0.4.3 * Upstream version 0.4.3 * https://deb.li/3btqd
[23:41] <KGB-X> Extension Manager pristine-tar 2a5d88a Jeremy Bícha gnome-shell-extension-manager_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz.delta gnome-shell-extension-manager_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz.id * pristine-tar data for gnome-shell-extension-manager_0.4.3.orig.tar.gz * https://deb.li/FRhv
[23:41] <KGB-X> Extension Manager upstream/latest c0d752d Jeremy Bicha * pushed 101 commits (first 5 follow) * https://deb.li/3dsyn
[23:41] <KGB-X> Extension Manager upstream/latest b9c35bc Matt Jakeman com.mattjakeman.ExtensionManager.Devel.json * Merge pull request #487 from mjakeman/oscfdezdz/webp * https://deb.li/uecs
[23:41] <KGB-X> Extension Manager upstream/latest 0b09818 Matt Jakeman src/ exm-detail-view.blp exm-detail-view.c * Merge pull request #491 from mjakeman/oscfdezdz/no-comments * https://deb.li/i4pkU
[23:41] <KGB-X> Extension Manager upstream/latest 3c207ca oscfdezdz src/exm-application.c * application: Simplify close action * https://deb.li/We8G
[23:41] <KGB-X> Extension Manager upstream/latest e18d305 oscfdezdz src/exm-window.c * window: Set detail-view title to extension uuid * https://deb.li/3FptM
[23:42] <KGB-X> Extension Manager upstream/latest 5a1fac2 oscfdezdz src/exm-browse-page.c * browse-page: Fix more results button not showing * https://deb.li/As6y


[11:28] <mvo> I seem to be unable to retarget my merge proposal for unity-scope-click - oops id is 54ee3f59041d9fc2fccac7206734d5d1 . is there a workaround or any other tip how I can re-target to lp:unity-scope-click/devel in  https://code.launchpad.net/~mvo/unity-scope-click/get-language-base-exceptions/+merge/220001  ?
[11:29] <wgrant> mvo: How did you attempt to retarget it?
[11:30] <wgrant> You'd normally have to delete and recreate it.
[11:30] <mvo> wgrant: oh, sorry. I clicked on "resubmit" with a different target. I will delete/create then
[11:30] <wgrant> Ah, that should work, hm.
[11:31] <mvo> wgrant: no worries, delete/create again worked now :) thanks for your help!
[11:36] <cjwatson> mvo: that was a timeout, FWIW, so it's possible retrying would've worked anyway ...
[11:41] <mvo> cjwatson: I tried ~5 times in various intervals including one before and after lunch :)
[11:42] <wgrant> mvo: Ah, your branch name was bad.
[11:42] <wgrant> So it tried to do a search, which timed out.
[11:42] <mvo> wgrant: aha, that explains it
[11:43] <wgrant> It's /trunk, not /devel
[11:43] <mvo> wgrant: oh? I wanted to target  lp:unity-scope-click/devel
[11:44] <wgrant> You specified ~ubuntuone-control-tower/unity-scope-click/devel, but it's trunk, not devel
[11:44] <wgrant> The alias is lp:unity-scope-click/devel
[11:44] <wgrant> lp:unity-scope-click, in fact
[11:45] <wgrant> Oh
[11:45] <cjwatson> Right, don't be misled by the practice in click and mir and a few others
[11:45] <wgrant> lp:unity-scope-click/devel is another branch entirely
[11:45] <cjwatson> Not everything uses the devel series
[11:45] <wgrant> lp:~unity-team/unity-scope-click/devel
[11:45] <wgrant> So there's trunk and devel separately.
[11:45] <cjwatson> The projects that don't mind CI Train taking over their changelog entirely and making up its own version numbers just use a single trunk
[11:49] <mvo> wgrant: thanks again, now I understand why I was confused and why LP timed out in the search
[11:49] <wgrant> Well, the timeout is a bug.
[11:50] <wgrant> But it'll only fall back to searching if the given name doesn't exist.
[11:50] <mvo> yeah, I didn't noticed that it was a different branch entirely
[16:50] <compholio> wgrant: would you mind looking into why https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/wine/master-git isn't updating?
[18:04] <dobey> hmm, i guess i'll have to wait a few more hours to get some more direct help with a very weird issue i'm having on lp
[18:39] <dobey> "Constraint not satisfied" is certainly an interestingly uninformative error
[20:28] <czajkowski> dobey: at least wgrant will be up soon
[20:29] <dobey> i think i need to just file a bug actually. i think i understand /why/ the UI is being all weird now, but the UI is being all weird.
[20:30] <dobey> of course, it might not get fixed :-/
[20:31] <czajkowski> if the UI is being weird chances are mpt has already filed a bug :)
[20:31] <czajkowski> and it's waiting to be fixed
[20:31] <czajkowski> dobey: also evening how's things?
[20:31] <dobey> evening :)
[20:32] <dobey> things are hectic as always :P
[20:35] <czajkowski> dobey: what are you working on these days ?
[20:35] <dobey> click scope
[21:59] <wgrant> dobey: You haven't specified what the very weird issue is.
[23:33] <ehoover> wgrant: would you mind looking to see why https://code.launchpad.net/~vcs-imports/wine/master-git isn't updating?
[23:33] <wgrant> ehoover: Looking
[23:43] <wgrant> ehoover: Fixed.
[23:50] <ehoover> wgrant: sweet, thank you


[04:36] <nickmoeck> ugh. Internet was working fine earlier today, and after the AT&T tech called me. now it's slow again. Looks like I'm going to have to call them again tomorrow
[10:07] <nickmoeck> Anyone else run Folding@Home?
[14:21] <sgtd> nickmoeck: used to
[15:27] <douglasawh-work> have any of you use gnome-voice-control before?
[15:28] <douglasawh-work> mine is stuck on "listening"
[15:28] <douglasawh-work> I used to use Folding@Home as well and then I got concerned about energy use
[15:37] <sgtd> i'd like to learn the 101's of distributed development
[15:37] <sgtd> but every time i've tried (except google app engine, but that's abstracted away from me) i've become mired in details i do not grasp
[23:20] <douglasawh-work> adr
[23:21] <douglasawh-work> hmm
[23:21] <douglasawh-work> that was a test
[23:21] <douglasawh-work> 1979 Milky Way
[23:22] <douglasawh-work> Verona, WI 53593 - ok, that part works
[23:22] <douglasawh-work> just making sure autokey works with KDE apps
[23:22] <douglasawh-work> the key strokes don't seem to
[23:22] <douglasawh-work> adr
[23:22] <douglasawh-work> 1979 Milky Way
[23:22] <douglasawh-work> Verona, WI 53593
[23:23] <douglasawh-work> hmm, so it works as long as where you are doesn't do enter
[23:23] <douglasawh-work> adr
[23:23] <douglasawh-work> adr
[23:23] <douglasawh-work> and also if I don't use synergy, it appears
[23:23] <douglasawh-work> 1979 Milky Way
[23:23] <douglasawh-work> Verona, WI 53593
[23:24] <douglasawh-work> that is beyond lame
[23:25] <douglasawh-work> 1979 Milky Way
[23:26] <douglasawh-work> ugh, ugh, ugh


[03:38] <btm> Bug ##
[03:38] <btm> Bug ##
[03:38] <btm> realistic circumstances, directly cause a security vulnerability. These are done by the security team and are documented at SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures.
[03:38] <btm> #
[03:38] <btm> Bugs which represent severe regressions from the previous release of Ubuntu. This includes packages which are totally unusable, like being uninstallable or crashing on startup.
[03:38] <btm> #
[03:38] <btm> Bugs which may, under realistic circumstances, directly cause a loss of user data
[03:38] <btm> # Bugs which do not fit under above categories, but (1) have an obviously safe patch and (2) affect an application rather than critical infrastructure packages (like X.org or the kernel).
[03:38] <btm> # For Long Term Support releases we regularly want to enable new hardware. Such changes are appropriate provided that we can ensure to not affect upgrades on existing hardware. For example, modaliases of newly introduced drivers must not overlap with previously shipped drivers.
[03:39] <btm> # New versions of commercial software in the Canonical partner archive.
[03:39] <btm> #
[03:39] <btm> oops.
[03:39] <nigel_nb> btm: what are you trying to do?
[03:40] <btm> Bug #327753 is fixed by ruby in karmic. I don't think an SRU for jaunty is justifiable from usage. Would you use nominate for release to indicate the fixes relation to releases?
[03:40] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 327753 in rcov "backtrace with 'stack level too deep'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/327753
[03:40] <btm> nigel_nb: learn to control my clipboard? :)
[03:41] <nigel_nb> btm: :)
[03:49] <btm> Since it is ultimately fixed in ruby, and rocv just had workarounds (although the version of rcov in sid doesn't even use ruby's rexml anymore) should I mark rcov invalid and mark ruby fix released since the current version of ruby1.8 in karmic contains an upstream fix?
[03:57] <micahg> btm: if an fix is actually in a released package and you know what the fix is, then you can mark fix released
[03:57] <micahg> btm: please note the version that fixes and any upstream related bugs
[03:58] <btm> micahg: should I prepare an SRU for jaunty, mark that won't fix, or just leave it open?
[04:02] <btm> open being triaged/wishlist I suppose.
[04:15] <micahg> btm: if it qualifies, if you want
[04:17] <btm> micahg: alright, thanks. I'm going to let it sit because it's pretty low on my priorities since it is fixed in karmic.
[04:19] <nigel_nb> hey micahg :)
[04:19] <micahg> hi nigel_nb
[04:19] <nigel_nb> when a user complains about webcam not working with empathy, what are the details he should be giving, bug 482974
[04:19] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 482974 in empathy "1. can't use my webcam with Empathy and ubuntu 9.10" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/482974
[04:21] <micahg> nigel_nb: I would think to check to see if it works in a program like cheese
[04:21] <micahg> that way you know if it's empathy (or one of its libraries) or the kernel
[04:21] <nigel_nb> micahg: he says it works under some aMSN
[04:22] <micahg> bcurtiswx: you there?
[04:23] <micahg> nigel_nb: you for sure want to have the second issue filed as a separate bug or let the reporter know if a bug already exists for it
[04:23] <nigel_nb> micahg: I'm exploring upstream empathy bugs for something
[04:24] <micahg> ok, you can check in LP also
[04:35] <nigel_nb> micahg: I think its something to do with MSN protocol
[04:39] <micahg> nigel_nb: ok, feel free to check upstream for a bug, if you don't find one, file one
[04:39] <nigel_nb> ok
[04:39] <micahg> nigel_nb: BTW, you can edit the LP task to point to upstream empathy
[04:40] <nigel_nb> huh?
[04:40] <micahg> nigel_nb: actually, reading from upstream locale might be important
[04:40] <nigel_nb> the problem here is
[04:41] <nigel_nb> empathy's upstream is gnome and telepathy's upstream is freedesktop
[04:41] <nigel_nb> now I'm not sure which one is the upstream for this issue
[04:41] <micahg> nigel_nb: there's a bug task for LP that's invalid, you can change it to empathy so the task list isn't cluttered
[04:41] <micahg> nigel_nb: which issue?
[04:41] <nigel_nb> the MSN trouble
[04:41] <micahg> which one?
[04:41] <nigel_nb> the list not getting populated completely
[04:42] <micahg> a new bug needs to be filed
[04:42] <micahg> tell the user to use ubuntu-bug this time
[04:42] <micahg> nigel_nb: one issue per bug...
[04:42] <nigel_nb> empathy has hook?
[04:42] <micahg> there should be a response
[04:43] <micahg> nigel_nb: no, but we'll get version and locale info
[04:43] <nigel_nb> true
[04:43] <nigel_nb> I'll ask user to check with cheese and report back too
[04:43] <nigel_nb> I trust cheese more than any other software
[04:47] <nigel_nb> micahg: how do we get camera information?
[04:47] <nigel_nb> i dont find any pointers
[04:48] <micahg> idk
[04:54] <nigel_nb> same here :P
[05:08] <nigel_nb> off for the day... later micah
[08:05] <thekorn> good morning
[08:06]  * thekorn kicks wiki.ubuntu.com *hard*
[08:08] <jmarsden> thekorn: It seems to be back up, for me... ?
[08:14] <thekorn> jmarsden: lucky you ;)
[11:00] <edmunds_> hi everyone! I just installed 9.10 on Acer TravelMate2424, all works fine except one - after restart don't have access to panels and menus - showing stalled. it happens time by time. what is it?
[12:44] <alvin> There is a trivial bug in a multiverse package (libmotif3, bug 374907) that is a showstopper here. It is fixed upstream a few years ago, but not in Debian. Do I add 'needs-packaging' to the bug, or will that just add confusion?
[12:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 374907 in openmotif ""*** buffer overflow detected ***" abort in MrmOpenHierarchyPerDisplay() " [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374907
[13:34] <bdrung_> alvin: need-packaging is for packages, that are not in the archive IIRC.
[13:36] <alvin> bdrung_: Thanks, I'll leave it alone then. (Is there an approved needs-upgrading tag?)
[13:37] <bdrung_> alvin: dunno.
[13:37] <bdrung_> alvin: the debian package is orphaned.
[13:37] <alvin> bdrung_: Does that mean there is no maintainer?
[13:37] <bdrung_> alvin: yes. therefore there is no upload for a long time
[13:38] <bdrung_> alvin: http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/openmotif.html
[13:39] <alvin> bdrung_: Thanks for finding that out. It's bad news. The main application on that server needs motif.
[13:40] <bdrung_> alvin: your welcome. someone, who cares about the package, should adopt the package and update it to the latest version. then it will be synced to ubuntu automatically.
[13:42] <alvin> bdrung_: Would buying server support at Canonical fix this? Maybe they can update the package.
[13:43] <bdrung_> alvin: is the package in main?
[13:43] <alvin> bdrung_: no
[13:43] <bdrung_> alvin: then probably not.
[13:43] <alvin> bdrung_: It's in multiverse
[13:43] <alvin> aw
[13:44] <bdrung_> alvin: they support main and restricted.
[13:46] <alvin> bdrung_: Thanks for the information. I'll need to think about it. We're using a commercial application that uses motif. That application is the single most important piece of software in this company. It supports in Red Hat (where this bug is fixed). We would rather use Ubuntu, but this is a showstopper, small as it is.
[13:48] <bdrung_> alvin: finding someone, who cares for the package, would be the best solution. paying some for packaging the latest version would be an alternative
[13:49] <alvin> bdrung_: Yes, but I'm also thinking of the future. Paying Canonical would be ideal. Just to be sure, I'll ask them if it can be done.
[13:49] <bdrung_> alvin: yes, asking does not hurt
[13:50] <bdrung_> alvin: depending on the company size, you can train one employee to packaging and then he/she can adopt the package
[13:52] <alvin> bdrung_: We're too small for stuff like that. :-) I would be that employee. I patched the package for now, but I'm hardly a programmer.
[13:53] <bdrung_> alvin: for packaging you do not have to be an programmer. you only have to know some tool.
[13:53] <bdrung_> alvin: packaging is working in the terminal. basic shell knowledge is required.
[13:54] <alvin> bdrung_: Well, maybe I'll do it.
[13:55] <bdrung_> alvin: there are people, who can answer questions and help.
[13:57] <alvin> bdrung_: Well, learning how to package wouldn't be bad. I'll try it.
[13:57] <kklimonda> alvin: if you decide to work on the package you can join #ubuntu-motu and ask questions. We also have a pretty good documentation about packaging
[13:57] <bdrung_> alvin: it's fun.
[13:57] <kklimonda> indeed
[13:57] <alvin> ah, so I can learn how to package for Ubuntu, instead of doing stuff in Debian?
[13:58] <bdrung_> alvin: and you will see, that other people benefit from your work
[13:58] <alvin> bdrung_: I can live with that. After all, I'm doing that too.
[13:58] <bdrung_> alvin: packaging for ubuntu or debian is nearly the same (there are some small differences)
[13:59] <kklimonda> alvin: well - obviously the best way would be to adopt package in Debian but it's easier to get going with maintaining in Ubuntu
[13:59] <alvin> Aha, well, thanks for the motivation. I have to go now, but I'll certainly try to package a newer version and get it in Ubuntu.
[14:00] <bdrung_> alvin: bringing it into debian first would be the best solution (therefore debian would benefit, too)
[14:01] <alvin> bdrung_: In that case, i'll try to put it in Debian.
[14:01] <bdrung_> great
[14:02] <bdrung_> alvin: starting point: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=379258
[14:02] <ubot4> Debian bug 379258 in wnpp "O: openmotif -- Open Motif" [Normal,Open]
[14:02] <alvin> bookmarked
[14:03] <bdrung_> alvin: you can bookmark http://packages.qa.debian.org/o/openmotif.html too
[14:03] <alvin> done
[14:03] <alvin> ok, I have to go now. Thanks for everything!
[14:04] <bdrung_> alvin: you might want to go into #debian-mentors on OFTC
[14:04] <alvin> ow, just writing this one down
[15:04] <bddebian> Boo
[15:06] <thekorn> boing bddebian
[15:07] <thekorn> ;)
[15:07] <bddebian> Hi thekorn :)
[17:33] <elMariachi> hi
[17:33] <elMariachi> I'd like to draw your attention on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/461163
[17:34] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 461163 in ubuntu "Gnome Freezes -- Ubuntu 9.10 -- big time freezes." [Undecided,Confirmed]
[17:34] <elMariachi> yap
[17:34] <elMariachi> :)
[17:36] <WeatherGod> long report
[17:36] <elMariachi> It's quite a big thing imo. Would be great, if you guys could have a closer look.
[17:39] <WeatherGod> the problem with bug reports like these is that it starts off very vague with a rather generic symptom...
[17:39] <WeatherGod> then other people start posting "me too!" statements instead of posting their own bug report
[17:40] <WeatherGod> it is much easier for us to spot a problem with many bug reports, as opposed to one mega bug report
[17:41] <WeatherGod> as best as I can tell, it seems to be a compiz problem with certain video drivers
[17:43] <WeatherGod> and then some others might be experiencing lock-ups due to issues with cpu frequency scaling
[17:44] <WeatherGod> which is a completely different issue, and then they get upset at some of the suggested fixes not working for them
[17:44] <WeatherGod> it is really hard to pick this one appart
[17:48] <WeatherGod> there does seem to be a common theme of the intel graphics card
[17:53] <WeatherGod> I am gonna ask these people to file their own bug reports... this is just too confusing to work with
[18:03] <elMariachi> WeatherGod: Thank you
[18:04] <WeatherGod> np
[18:07] <elMariachi> It's not only intel cards btw. I'm using an ATI card..
[18:08] <WeatherGod> right, this is why I wanted to get these reports separated with standardized replies
[18:08] <elMariachi> i see
[18:08] <WeatherGod> that way, I can organize and group the dupes accordingly
[18:08] <WeatherGod> a computer freezing is such a generic symptom
[18:09] <elMariachi> :)
[18:09] <WeatherGod> it is like someone having a fever
[18:09] <WeatherGod> Only Dr. House could diagnose someone from just that symptom alone
[18:09] <elMariachi> :D
[18:11] <WeatherGod> but, I also sympathize
[18:11] <WeatherGod> there are way to many bug reports, and not enough people like me, and reports do fall through the cracks
[18:11] <elMariachi> Gonna write my own report now
[18:11] <WeatherGod> good, thank you
[18:20] <elMariachi> "Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad."
[18:20] <elMariachi> ...
[18:21] <WeatherGod> were you filing through the website or using ubuntu-bug?
[18:22] <elMariachi> through the website, because i don't know the package in which the bug occurs
[18:22] <elMariachi> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+filebug/?no-redirect
[18:22] <elMariachi> i was using this url
[18:23] <WeatherGod> ok, well, for now, file it against Ubuntu, I'll reassign it later as I gather more info
[18:23] <WeatherGod> that is the correct url
[18:24] <elMariachi> hm, still a timeout error
[18:25] <WeatherGod> heh, go figure
[18:28] <WeatherGod> micahg, I got a user here who can't seem to file a bug report
[18:29] <WeatherGod> launchpad is giving him timeouts
[18:29] <WeatherGod> is the server having issues or something?
[18:29] <micahg> WeatherGod: idk, possibly
[18:30] <micahg> WeatherGod: have the user try again in 15 minutes
[18:30] <WeatherGod> elMariachi: --^
[18:30] <elMariachi> "Error ID: OOPS-1431G2192" if that is of any help
[18:30] <ubot4> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1431G2192
[18:30] <elMariachi> yeah, i'll check it later
[18:31] <WeatherGod> warthogs?
[18:31] <elMariachi> ?
[18:31] <WeatherGod> if you click on that link, there is a message to the user regarding warthogs
[18:32] <WeatherGod> just seems funny
[18:32] <elMariachi> in deed
[18:32] <elMariachi> didn't recognize it
[18:41] <Supremacy> hi there, i have a bit of a problem with version 9.10 and jaunty. i am able to use the internet for a few minutes, irc, browse etc, but after around 10 minutes, it looses connection (cant browse any pages) but i remain connected to irc, until i deliberately quit, inwhich case i cant log on again
[18:42] <WeatherGod> what are you using to connect to the internet?
[18:42] <WeatherGod> wireless? ethernet?
[18:42] <Supremacy> if i restart pc immediately i still cant connect, but after restarting a few hours later, the connection comes back for another 10 min or so
[18:42] <Supremacy> ethernet
[18:42] <WeatherGod> dsl, cable?
[18:43] <Supremacy> i thought it might be just jaunty version, so i waited for 9.10 and i still have the same problem
[18:43] <Supremacy> dsl
[18:43] <Supremacy> (everything works fine in windows though)
[18:43] <WeatherGod> of course...
[18:43] <Supremacy> hehe
[18:43] <WeatherGod> so, I take it that you are dual-booting?
[18:44] <Supremacy> yes
[18:44] <WeatherGod> have you tried booting into windows after losing your connection?
[18:44] <Supremacy> yea, it works fine after that
[18:45] <WeatherGod> ok
[18:45] <WeatherGod> what router are you using?
[18:45] <Supremacy> umm, telkom adsl 5100
[18:45] <Supremacy> has 3 pc's connected to it
[18:46] <WeatherGod> ok
[18:46] <WeatherGod> do this... file a bug report after regaining your internet connection.
[18:46] <WeatherGod> File the bug against the network-manager package
[18:47] <WeatherGod> be sure to state what model/brand router you are using, and the brand/model of your ethernet card
[18:47] <WeatherGod> also note that the hardware works fine on windows
[18:47] <Supremacy> alright
[18:48] <Supremacy> how do i choose to report the network manager package?
[18:48] <WeatherGod> and if no one responds to your bug report after a few days, just jump back here and poke us a bit
[18:48] <Supremacy> lol
[18:48] <WeatherGod> you could go to the network-manager page and "Report A Bug" that way
[18:48] <Supremacy> ubuntu-bug network-manager?
[18:48] <WeatherGod> that too
[18:48] <Supremacy> k great
[18:49] <WeatherGod> np
[18:49] <Supremacy> alright, brb
[18:49] <Supremacy> thanks
[18:49] <Supremacy> :)
[18:49] <yofel> hm, what was the policy on apport not allowing to report bugs about ppa packages again?
[18:49] <WeatherGod> i don't know... never heard about that
[18:50] <yofel> apport gives a 'The package is not a genuine Ubuntu package' message if the package doesn't come from the primary archive
[18:51] <yofel> makes sense for packages that come from somewhere else, like opera, but it would be nice to be able to report bugs about ppa packages
[18:51] <WeatherGod> heh, maybe you should ask micahg or hggdh about that
[18:51] <WeatherGod> yeah, it would
[18:54] <yofel> meh, whishlist - bug 443961
[18:54] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 443961 in apport "Given that ubuntu-bug is now needed for all bug reports, non-genuine packages should be allowed." [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/443961
[18:54] <FFEMTcJ> hey WeatherGod / yofel
[18:55] <yofel> hi FFEMTcJ
[18:55] <WeatherGod> hi
[18:55] <hggdh> yofel: the archive from where the package was installed must be still available
[18:56] <yofel> hggdh: that means? apt-cache has to give a repos on policy?
[18:56] <hggdh> for PPA packages: this is still under discussion BUT right now, with very few exceptions, PPA packages are maintained by the authors, and are not accepted as Ubuntu bugs
[18:56] <yofel> ah
[18:57] <yofel> ok, that answers my question for now
[18:57] <hggdh> yes, apt-cache has to give an *official* repo on policy
[18:58] <hggdh> the point, for PPAs, is that LP does not offer native support (and apport offers none)
[19:02] <yofel> *sigh* it would be nice though if apport would at least give the report details with a 'save to file' option instead of just erroring out :(
[19:03] <FFEMTcJ> Can someone wishlist bug 490935 please
[19:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 490935 in thunderbird "Non properly a bug: it is not possible to modify email "subject"" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490935
[19:03] <WeatherGod> doesn't it have something in the case that you are in offline mode?
[19:05] <yofel> WeatherGod: apport-cli gives  a 'save to file for later use' option
[19:05] <yofel> WeatherGod: but it still fails BEFORE that if you want to report a ppa version
[19:05] <WeatherGod> oh, I see
[19:05] <WeatherGod> that sucks
[19:06] <yofel> well, I guess that's to prevent users to still make reports about ppa packages to lp.
[19:07] <yofel> but right now reporting a ppa bug to the ppa owner is only possible over mail or other direct communication
[19:08] <WeatherGod> hmm, kinda defeats the purpose of hosting the projects on launchpad if they can't get bug reports
[19:10] <FFEMTcJ> hmm.. how do I add a second package for somethign that a bug eggects
[19:10] <FFEMTcJ> effects
[19:10] <yofel> FFEMTcJ: did you add the bugwatch to the thunderbird bug?
[19:11] <FFEMTcJ> yes
[19:11] <FFEMTcJ> did I do something wrong?
[19:11] <yofel> FFEMTcJ: can you please post a comment like the 'upstreamed' template from the ffx extension if you do that, so that the reporter understands what's happening? Thanks.
[19:12] <FFEMTcJ> I was lookin for that and then got side tracked.. lol
[19:12] <yofel> ^^
[19:14] <Supremacy> hey WeatherGod
[19:14] <Supremacy> added
[19:14] <Supremacy> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/490976
[19:14] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 490976 in network-manager "Ubuntu looses internet connection after 10 minutes." [Undecided,New]
[19:15] <Supremacy> think i covered everything?
[19:15] <WeatherGod> looking right now
[19:18] <WeatherGod> could you include your dmesg file as well, during a session where you have connection, lose it, and then get it back
[19:18] <WeatherGod> also, the other computers, what OS are they running?
[19:18] <Supremacy> all windows, this is the only 1 running ubuntu
[19:18] <Supremacy> how do i get this dmesg?
[19:19] <WeatherGod> it is /var/log/dmesg
[19:19] <Supremacy> no worries anyway, ive lost connection already
[19:19] <WeatherGod> do note that it is replaced at each reboot
[19:19] <WeatherGod> but, we are still talking
[19:21] <WeatherGod> and, apparently no longer...
[19:24] <Supremacy> hmm
[19:24] <Supremacy> sorry
[19:24] <Supremacy> used to irc flashing
[19:24] <Supremacy> >_>
[19:24] <Supremacy> copied over dmesg file to hdd where i can access it in windows
[19:24] <WeatherGod> go figure
[19:24] <WeatherGod> ok
[19:25] <Supremacy> hmm
[19:25] <Supremacy> using google's cache now, and its using ip address instead of url
[19:25] <Supremacy> and it wants to load
[19:26] <WeatherGod> so, using IP addresses, it works fine?
[19:26] <Supremacy> seems to be, just loaded an ip that i havent used before
[19:26] <Supremacy> but no domains work
[19:26] <Supremacy> can u perhaps give me ip of google.co.za?
[19:26] <Supremacy> please
[19:27] <WeatherGod> interesting... that certainly would explain the symptoms
[19:27] <WeatherGod> sure, give me a sec
[19:27] <WeatherGod> <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:27] <Supremacy> yea, that loads perfectly
[19:27] <Supremacy> but i cant load google.co.za
[19:28] <WeatherGod> ok, time to change your DNS settings
[19:29] <Supremacy> ie? :P
[19:29] <WeatherGod> well, you could use OpenDNS
[19:30] <WeatherGod> I believe their IP number is <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:30] <WeatherGod> and <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:30] <WeatherGod> you can set those in your network manager settings
[19:31] <WeatherGod> keep in mind, OpenDNS isn't perfect, and there are plenty of things to consider about them
[19:31] <Supremacy> im a bit lost
[19:31] <Supremacy> :P
[19:31] <Supremacy> wat must i do? :S
[19:31] <Supremacy> <---- linux noob
[19:32] <WeatherGod> ok... give me a second to look up the text files
[19:32] <Supremacy> thanks
[19:32] <WeatherGod> ok, you can set the nameservers in your /etc/resolv.conf file
[19:33] <Supremacy> kk
[19:33] <Supremacy> sec
[19:34] <WeatherGod> so, you would have "nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>"
[19:34] <WeatherGod> and then the next line would be "nameserver <IP_ADDRESS>"
[19:34] <Supremacy> ok
[19:34] <WeatherGod> if there is already a nameserver listed, you can just add to it
[19:35] <Supremacy> hmm
[19:35] <Supremacy> i cant save the file?
[19:35] <WeatherGod> that way, they act as backups
[19:35] <WeatherGod> how are you editing it?
[19:35] <WeatherGod> are you still on windows?
[19:35] <Supremacy> double click?
[19:35] <Supremacy> na, im in linux
[19:35] <WeatherGod> ok, open up a terminal
[19:35] <Supremacy> kk
[19:36] <WeatherGod> "sudo gedit /etc/resolv.conf"
[19:36] <WeatherGod> you may have to enter your password
[19:36] <Supremacy> done
[19:36] <WeatherGod> the file is owned by root, so you as a regular user can not edit it under normal methods
[19:36] <WeatherGod> (this is a feature, not a bug)
[19:37] <Supremacy> ah i see
[19:37] <Supremacy> ok, saved
[19:37] <WeatherGod> but, you as a "Super User" can
[19:37] <WeatherGod> hence "sudo"
[19:37] <WeatherGod> good
[19:37] <WeatherGod> now, you might have to restart your network connections for it to take effect
[19:39] <Supremacy> by clicking on the connection icon thingy?
[19:39] <Supremacy> top right
[19:40] <WeatherGod> well, the more elegant way is "sudo ifconfig eth0 down" and then "sudo ifconfig eth0 up"
[19:40] <WeatherGod> note that is a zero, not an 'oh'
[19:41] <Supremacy> kk sec
[19:41] <Supremacy> hmm
[19:41] <Supremacy> after restart
[19:41] <Supremacy> its reset
[19:41] <Supremacy> removed the nameservers
[19:42] <WeatherGod> stupid network-managers...
[19:42] <Supremacy> lol
[19:42] <Supremacy> and now its loading a few times again
[19:42] <Supremacy> domains that is
[19:43] <WeatherGod> so, /etc/resolv.conf is back to one entry?
[19:43] <Supremacy> takes a while to lookup etc
[19:43] <Supremacy> yea
[19:43] <Supremacy> 1 entry
[19:43] <WeatherGod> it might be a faulty DNS server that your ISP is using
[19:43] <WeatherGod> go to System -> Network Device Control
[19:44] <WeatherGod> sorry, System -> Administration -> Network Device Control
[19:44] <Supremacy> only got "network tools"
[19:45] <WeatherGod> ok
[19:45] <WeatherGod> does it ask for password?
[19:46] <Supremacy> nope
[19:46] <WeatherGod> well, what do you see?
[19:47] <Supremacy> lots of tabs
[19:47] <Supremacy> "devices"
[19:47] <Supremacy> ip information
[19:47] <WeatherGod> one of the "Devices"
[19:47] <Supremacy> ipv6
[19:47] <Supremacy> ipv4
[19:47] <WeatherGod> what is the window's title?
[19:47] <Supremacy> loopback interface currently
[19:47] <Supremacy> devices - Network tools
[19:48] <WeatherGod> and do you see a tab for "DNS"?
[19:48] <Supremacy> nope
[19:48] <Supremacy> ping netstat traceroute
[19:48] <Supremacy> portscan lookup
[19:48] <WeatherGod> ok... do this...
[19:49] <micahg> WeatherGod: did that person ever get to file a bug?
[19:49] <WeatherGod> System -> Preferences -> Network Connections
[19:49] <WeatherGod> don't know
[19:49] <Supremacy> k now i got tabs
[19:49] <Supremacy> current is Wired
[19:50] <WeatherGod> ok, choose eth0 and then "Edit"
[19:50] <WeatherGod> should ask for a password
[19:50] <Supremacy> kk
[19:50] <Supremacy> na, im on sudo atm
[19:51] <drizzle> hey guys
[19:51] <drizzle> does anyone know why so many support questions are being sent to the bug squad mailing list today?
[19:51] <WeatherGod> ok, so for the IPv4 tab, you should be able to see a field for DNS servers
[19:52] <WeatherGod> drizzle, huh, that is weird
[19:52] <Supremacy> yea, its greyed out
[19:53] <WeatherGod> set the method to Automatic (DHCP) addresses only
[19:53] <Supremacy> kk
[19:54] <Supremacy> add those openDNS ip's ?
[19:54] <WeatherGod> now you should be able to set your DNS server
[19:54] <WeatherGod> yeah
[19:54] <WeatherGod> I think you just need a space between them
[19:54] <Supremacy> hmm, shoudl i use the ones i set in windows?
[19:55] <WeatherGod> sure, you have some?
[19:55] <Supremacy> yea
[19:55] <Supremacy> 2
[19:55] <WeatherGod> ok, use them
[19:56] <bdmurray> drizzle: the list hadn't been moderated in a bit
[19:56] <Supremacy> kk
[19:56] <Supremacy> changed
[19:56] <Supremacy> and it disconnected
[19:57] <WeatherGod> and it isn't coming back up?
[19:57] <Supremacy> no i reconnected by the icon
[19:57] <WeatherGod> good
[19:57] <WeatherGod> check your resolv.conf file
[19:58] <Supremacy> also added the address, netmask and gateway settings i used in windows
[19:58] <WeatherGod> good
[19:58] <Supremacy> kwl, shows the nameservers now
[19:58] <WeatherGod> actually... I would be wary of doing that
[19:58] <WeatherGod> is Windows set to be statically assigned or dynamically
[19:59] <Supremacy> static
[19:59] <Supremacy> cos i have server and host games
[19:59] <Supremacy> this pc is <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:59] <Supremacy> added the router gateway as <IP_ADDRESS>
[19:59] <WeatherGod> odd address, ok
[19:59] <WeatherGod> guess that'll work just fine
[20:00] <Supremacy> hmm
[20:00] <Supremacy> takes a while to lookup domains
[20:00] <Supremacy> bt it eventually gets there
[20:01] <WeatherGod> well, the DNSs are probably failing over
[20:01] <WeatherGod> so it is waiting for timeout from the first, and then switches to the secondary
[20:01] <WeatherGod> reverse the order of the DNSs to see if it improves
[20:01] <Supremacy> hmm
[20:01] <Supremacy> kk
[20:03] <Supremacy> weird, it takes forever, then the instant i change a setting and click again
[20:03] <Supremacy> it loads
[20:03] <WeatherGod> so, reversing the DNSs helps?
[20:03] <WeatherGod> I am not surprised
[20:03] <Supremacy> no, still taking a while
[20:03] <Supremacy> but again, it eventually loads
[20:04] <Supremacy> should i just try use opendns?
[20:04] <WeatherGod> ok, try using the OpenDNS ones
[20:04] <WeatherGod> yeah
[20:05] <Supremacy> again
[20:05] <Supremacy> taking forever
[20:05] <Supremacy> but works
[20:06] <WeatherGod> hmm, might be something wrong with your other settings
[20:06] <WeatherGod> I would go with doing the Automatic settings for addresses only
[20:06] <Supremacy> yea
[20:06] <Supremacy> just did that
[20:06] <Supremacy> also restarted conn, which i forgot to do
[20:07] <Supremacy> much faster
[20:07] <WeatherGod> now, is it because of the OpenDNS or the Automatic thing?
[20:07] <WeatherGod> restarting the connection is important
[20:07] <Supremacy> adding manual again
[20:08] <Supremacy> gna restart
[20:09] <Supremacy> think its the nameservers
[20:09] <Supremacy> manual settings work fine
[20:09] <WeatherGod> good
[20:10] <Supremacy> yea lookup its rocking now
[20:10] <WeatherGod> you might want to contact your ISP and let them know that their DNS servers are acting up
[20:10] <WeatherGod> good!
[20:10] <Supremacy> great
[20:10] <WeatherGod> give it a day, and then update your bug report
[20:10] <Supremacy> well
[20:10] <Supremacy> gna cross my fingers n come back 2moz
[20:11] <Supremacy> i dont think it was the actual nameservers tho, i think it was the fact that they werent set
[20:11] <Supremacy> because i set ISP's ones without restarting
[20:11] <WeatherGod> ok
[20:12] <WeatherGod> well, now you know what to do if they ever do act up again
[20:13] <Supremacy> hmm
[20:13] <Supremacy> its the primary nameserver
[20:13] <Supremacy> i swap the ISP's NS and it works
[20:13] <Supremacy> but hey, thanks so much for ur help n time
[20:14] <WeatherGod> np, glad to have it working properly
[20:14] <Supremacy> really appreciate it, u have no idea how annoying it is to have to dev rails in windows >_>
[20:15] <WeatherGod> well, I did use to use Windows (many moons ago)
[20:15] <Supremacy> lol
[20:18] <WeatherGod> bdmurray, drizzle: what do we want to do with those emails... I already told the internet connection guy to file a bug report
[20:18] <WeatherGod> do we just want to tell them to file a bug report?
[20:18] <Supremacy> anyways, thanks WeatherGod, will be back 2moz :)
[20:18] <Supremacy> nite
[20:18] <WeatherGod> good luck
[20:18] <bdmurray> Oh possibly use answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/
[20:19] <WeatherGod> what's this about a bounty?
[20:19] <bdmurray> I've no idea
[20:22] <WeatherGod> bdmurray, I definitely agree the backup files one should be filed as a question
[20:25] <WeatherGod> bdmurray, for your email that you just sent.... I usually highlight the text in question, then do a search google
[20:25] <WeatherGod> then go to "More..." and choose translate
[20:26] <WeatherGod> ok... I gotta run for a bit... free food beckons!
[20:41] <micahg> hggdh: did you get my message about the apport test?
[20:53] <dogatemycomputer> Greetings.  I am new to Triaging bugs.  I am looking at Bug #490872 and want to knwo if this is considered a translation problem or a bug I should go ahead and confirm as a problem with Okular?
[20:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 490872 in kdegraphics "Okular doesn't display any instances of letter 'u'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/490872
[20:53] <dogatemycomputer> Any information you could provide would be appreciated!
[20:54] <Pici> 24
[20:55] <WeatherGod> hurray for Hitchhiker's Guide!
[20:55] <Pici> Sorry, I keep doing that.
[20:56] <WeatherGod> oh, wait, I am getting a bit dyslexic
[20:56] <WeatherGod> hehe
[20:57] <WeatherGod> dogatemycomputer: this is not a translation error
[20:57] <WeatherGod> this is definitely a bug
[20:57] <WeatherGod> translation errors are generally more related to labels and messages within a program
[20:57] <dogatemycomputer> WeatherGod:  Thank you!   I will adjust the package to "Okular" and confirm the bug then.   Have a great day!
[20:57] <WeatherGod> np
[21:19] <hggdh> micahg: yes, I got it (this morning). I installed it, and will have a go at it
[21:20] <micahg> hggdh: great let me know, I'll push a branch for merge up once you confirm it's good
[21:20] <hggdh> micahg: will do. And this is something we do need, or we will eventually be overflowing with bugs
[21:20] <hggdh> wait
[21:21] <hggdh> we *already* are overflowing with bugs
[21:21] <micahg> hggdh: we'll be overflowing with bugs with no info :)
[21:21] <WeatherGod> that's an understatement of the month
[21:21] <hggdh> :-D
[21:22] <WeatherGod> you know, I just had a thought for a possible improvement to the Firefox plugin
[21:22] <WeatherGod> maybe some sort of tool to help us identify and mark duplicates?
[21:23] <micahg> WeatherGod: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-improved-duplicate-bug-management
[21:23] <WeatherGod> ok, and what about something that could help us properly mark bugs a certain way...
[21:24] <WeatherGod> in a manner consistent with what we see in the DebuggingCentral
[21:24] <micahg> WeatherGod: the firefox ext already has the dupe text
[21:25] <WeatherGod> yeah, I am thinking something more than that... maybe it isn't really feasible as an extension
[21:25] <WeatherGod> I just find myself keeping a lot of tabs open to the debugging central to refer back to
[21:25] <micahg> WeatherGod: well that blueprint is for the development of tools for dupe finding
[21:26] <WeatherGod> that would certainly be a good step
[21:27] <WeatherGod> I guess it is the sound issues that kinda breaks the model
[21:27] <WeatherGod> we have many reports with similar symptoms, and similar fixes, but we don't mark them as dupes because they have different hardware
[21:48] <hggdh> this is one of them, another is X
[21:53] <nigel_nb> hggdh: hey :)
[21:53] <nigel_nb> great to see you after quite some time :)
[21:55] <paulproteus> Hello bug squadders.
[21:55] <paulproteus> I can't talk much right now, but I'm working on a project that might be useful to you guys.
[21:56] <paulproteus> http://openhatch.org/search/ is a bug search engine (right now, oriented at upstream projects, not Ubuntu itself)
[21:56] <paulproteus> You can browse bugs by language, and shortly by tag, in a cross-project way. (Once we have tag browsing, I'll probably mail a writeup to the bugsquad list.)
[21:57] <WeatherGod> what's special about your search engine?
[21:57] <paulproteus> http://openhatch.org/blog/2009/we-are-different/ explains a little more about OpenHatch, in case that's interesting.
[21:57] <paulproteus> Well, we highlight "bite-sized" bugs in various projects.
[21:58] <paulproteus> OpenSolaris calls them "oss-bite-sized", Python.org calls it "easy", and Miro calls it "bitesized".
[21:58] <paulproteus> Here you can just browse. (Are there other bug search engines that are cross-project? I don't know of any, other than arguably Launchpad.)
[22:00] <WeatherGod> interesting statement about contributions and attributions for translations and such
[22:00] <hggdh> hi nigel_nb, yes, I have been absent for a while
[22:01] <WeatherGod> but I don't see why the search tool has to be responsible for that
[22:01] <nigel_nb> :)
[22:01] <paulproteus> WeatherGod, Well, OpenHatch also has a profile app.
[22:01] <paulproteus> http://openhatch.org/people/paulproteus/ for example.
[22:01] <WeatherGod> so does LaunchPad
[22:01] <paulproteus> But it's the bug search engine I thought this channel would be most interested in. (-:
[22:01] <paulproteus> Yes, but (see that page...)
[22:01] <paulproteus> Launchpad doesn't include my non-Launchpad contributions, nor my patches I email to mailing lists, etc.
[22:02] <paulproteus> So this is broader. (We do import your data from Launchpad!)
[22:02] <paulproteus> I hope you see this is a sort of tool, not a replacement for Launchpad.
[22:03] <WeatherGod> someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I think LaunchPad does already support many other bug trackers that can be linked to
[22:03] <WeatherGod> although, I am not sure if it can be done in this manner
[22:03] <WeatherGod> it is certainly pretty, though
[22:03] <paulproteus> Oh, thanks! (-:
[22:04] <WeatherGod> it is nice to see summaries for each project
[22:04] <WeatherGod> huh, and you can see who collaborated with who
[22:04] <WeatherGod> that's neat
[22:05] <paulproteus> We made it sort of personal that way.
[22:06] <paulproteus> That's the idea, so you can sort of see that for your own projects.
[22:06] <greg-g> as someone who has seen OpenHatch before, I like the idea behind it a lot.
[22:06] <WeatherGod> well, you know, LaunchPad is open source, feel free to work with developers to see if LaunchPad could be improved to incorporate some of these ideas
[22:06]  * paulproteus blushes.
[22:06] <greg-g> WeatherGod: just because something is open source doesn't mean it can, and should, incorporate all the possible features of any web platform :)
[22:07] <WeatherGod> of course.... modularity first
[22:07] <greg-g> "do one thing and do it well" and all that
[22:07] <WeatherGod> a very good rule
[22:07] <greg-g> but, cross colaboration is of course a good idea
[22:07] <WeatherGod> yeah, that's more what I am thinking
[22:08] <greg-g> er, I guess just colaboration, "cross " is kinda redundant
[22:08] <WeatherGod> I would like to see better integration with other bug trackers
[22:08] <WeatherGod> question...
[22:09] <WeatherGod> it seems like one could go ahead and claim participation in just about anything
[22:09] <WeatherGod> how does the link get verified
[22:09] <greg-g> WeatherGod: yeah, which is kinda different than what OpenHatch does, from my experience. That is what Launchpad is good at (or hopefully will be good at).
[22:09]  * greg-g notes there is a #openhatch on Freenode :)
[22:09] <paulproteus> You could claim anything, but then you'd be a jerk (-;
[22:09] <paulproteus> ('tis true!)
[22:10] <paulproteus> Verifying is something we're going to improve over time. I agree it's at least a little important.
[22:11] <WeatherGod> hmm, well, its interesting... but what is most important to me are tools to make handling bug reports better
[22:11] <WeatherGod> so, search needs to be integrated
[22:11] <paulproteus> What do you mean, integrated?
[22:11] <WeatherGod> heck, maybe something that comes up with possible dupes at the bottom of the page for a bug report
[22:12] <WeatherGod> it would be really nice for automatic searching of upstream for bug reports
[22:14] <paulproteus> Right, in something like Launchpad.
[22:14] <WeatherGod> Then again, I would also like a pony....
[22:14] <paulproteus> At report time.
[22:15] <WeatherGod> yeah, kinda like that, but for when I view the bug reports
[22:15] <WeatherGod> usually, the bug controllers are much more equipt to see the possible links between other reports
[22:16] <WeatherGod> showing it to the reporters, I think, is useless
[22:16] <WeatherGod> and can actually increase noise by having reporters adding "me too!" statements to existing reports
[22:19] <WeatherGod> paulproteus: btw, LaunchPad uses 'bitesize' and 'string-fix' tags for bug reports as well
[23:28] <garrythefish> not enough real drilling
[23:28] <garrythefish> that's what's the problem with the lesbos at #ubuntu-women
[23:29] <kklimonda> that is sad..
[23:30] <jpds> Aha.
[23:30] <micahg> kklimonda: he's been doing that in a few channels
[23:30] <kklimonda> I know, that's why it's so sad..
[23:30] <micahg> jpds: it's the thought that counts :)
[23:30] <dtchen> it's sad that people would rather do that mess than help the rest of us volunteers fix bugs.


[02:47] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck and shadeslayer: Are you here/awake?
[02:49] <ScottK> seele: We're at UDS in Florida.  Riddell wants to know when the hurricane is coming.
[02:52] <seele> ScottK: lol
 so... when is it coming?
[02:53] <seele> Hurricane Richard is going to hit Mexico instead
[02:53] <seele> lucky it's missing you
[02:53] <seele> although a tropical storm is forming east/southeast of florida. by the end of the week it could hit!
[03:01] <DarkwingCell> ScottK you there?
[03:01] <ScottK> DarkwingCell: Yes.
[03:01] <ScottK> Where are you?
[03:01] <DarkwingCell> tower 3 top floor.
[03:01] <ScottK> seele: Excellent adventure factor.  Last UDS it wasthe volcano.
[03:02] <seele> lol
[03:02] <DarkwingCell> where u at? I wanted to grab a drink before going to bed
[03:02] <ScottK> DarkwingCell: If you can make it to the bar near checkin in the next 5 minutes you can meet Riddell before he crashes.
[03:03] <DarkwingCell> on my way. I'm in a black marvin the martian t shirt and ubuntu hat
[03:03] <ScottK> Great.  See you soon.
[03:08] <ScottK> jussi: arrived?
[03:30]  * claydoh hopes you all have a great time in Florida, wish I was there
[03:38] <DarkwingDuck> itll be good
[05:12] <ScottK> Lex79: Why does kdebindings have both  libqyotoshared2 and  libqyoto2?  The first one is an empty package.
[05:14] <ScottK> Lex79: I accepted it anyway, but please look into that and get it sorted out.
[05:16] <Lex79> ScottK: I forgot to disable in control libqyotoshared2 package, like Debian do
[05:16] <Lex79> I will fix tomorrow maybe
[05:16] <ScottK> Lex79: OK.  Sounds good.
[05:34] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: you still up?
[05:34] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Barely.
[05:34] <DarkwingDuck> sleep my friend. lol im still stuck on west coast time
[05:35] <DarkwingDuck> who from the kubuntu group is from findland?
[05:35] <DarkwingDuck> jussi is right?
[05:38] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: He lives in Finland, but he's from Australia.
[05:38] <DarkwingDuck> and hes my roommate lol
[05:39] <DarkwingDuck> and im crashing
[12:56] <shadeslayer> ScottK: i slept at 7 PM, couldnt get up on account of jetlag ... ill see you in a few mins/hours :)
[13:40] <udslogger> bollocks
[13:41] <udslogger> uds stream urls are all differente again
[13:45] <shtylman> no stream for the main room?
[13:46] <udslogger> apparently not
[13:46] <udslogger> or not yet
[13:46] <udslogger> this supports my theory that our dictator will announce the switch of unity to Qt :P
[13:46] <udslogger> so that the news stays hot - no stream ;)
[13:49] <shtylman> :(
[13:50] <nixternal> hrmm, gobby broken for anyone else?
[13:51] <nixternal> http://video.ubuntu.com/live/
[13:51] <nixternal> udslogger and shtylman ^^
[13:52] <nixternal> that will be the live stream for the main room, video baby! \o/
[13:52] <shtylman> nixternal: yea.. I saw in the main room IRC chan.. thx
[13:53] <nixternal> what ist he main room irc chan?
[13:55] <nixternal> wow, no community tracks this summit. interesting
[13:56] <nixternal> i have video, 'WELCOME'
[14:00] <Riddell> doods
[14:00] <nixternal> wasabi Riddell!!!
[14:01] <Riddell> shadeslayer: I haven't met you yet, where are you about?
[14:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell: im with ScottK
[14:02] <shadeslayer> :D
[14:03] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ah hah, I'm behind you to your left
[14:03] <ScottK> Riddell: I have my netbook to give to mgraesslin if I can find him.
[14:17] <txwikinger> Do we have an amarok plugin for the streams again?
[14:18] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: yeah
[14:18] <shadeslayer> apachelogger released one
[14:19] <shadeslayer> http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/Ubuntu+Developer+Summit?content=124463&PHPSESSID=2bfe73ec8692068a0928903bb5256270
[14:20] <shadeslayer> txwikinger: we also have video this time
[14:20] <txwikinger> shadeslayer: Yes.. I watch it atm
[14:20] <shadeslayer> and the plenary started about 20 mins ago, so you can easily tune it
[14:20] <shadeslayer> ah kewl
[14:20] <shadeslayer> im just behind the camera guy :P
[14:20] <txwikinger> you  mean all the rooms have video streamed?
[14:21] <shadeslayer> just the plenaries i think
[14:21] <shadeslayer> not entirely sure ..
[14:28] <ScottK> Is Kobby crashing for anyone else?
[14:28] <shtylman> when is kobby not crashing?
[14:29] <ScottK> shtylman: Worse than normal.
[14:30] <ScottK> I just uploaded a maverick rebuild to my PPA to see if that'll fix it.
[14:35] <shtylman> is Riddell even awake yet?
[14:36] <shadeslayer> shtylman: yeah
[14:36] <shtylman> very good :)
[14:36] <shadeslayer> hes typing something.... :P
[14:40] <txwikinger> ScottK: My kobby seem to work so far.. Haven't opened a document yet though
[14:40] <ScottK> That's farther than I got.
[14:41] <ScottK> Rebuild didn't help.
[14:43]  * ScottK looks at ryanakca.
[14:44] <rgreening> morning all.
[14:44] <udslogger> looks like a crash
[14:45] <udslogger>   g_assert(priv->group != NULL);
[14:45] <udslogger> here in particular
[14:45] <shadeslayer> udslogger: where are you?!
[14:45] <udslogger> 3rd row, right side
[14:45] <shadeslayer> ah ok
[14:46] <udslogger> ERROR:infc-browser.c:867:infc_browser_connected: assertion failed: (priv->group != NULL)
[14:46] <udslogger> ScottK: I do not think kobby is at fault
[14:46] <rgreening> nooooooooo... harold goes to UDS and im not there... damn man...
[14:46] <rgreening> ;)
[14:46] <shadeslayer> hehe :P
[14:46] <ScottK> udslogger: Please fix.
[14:46] <Riddell> rgreening: still time, it's just down the road from you
[14:46] <udslogger> meh
[14:46] <udslogger> I do not want to
[14:46] <rgreening> lol
[14:46] <Riddell> quite far down but
[14:47] <rgreening> maybee I jumps in a boat and jigs my way south
[14:47] <nixternal> rgreening: get to chicago, we can drive down from here. only about 12 hours i think :)
[14:47] <shadeslayer> udslogger: even choqok isnt working properly :P
[14:47] <rgreening> hmm...
[14:48] <rgreening> tempting
[14:48] <rgreening> lol
[14:48] <udslogger> shadeslayer: even? hahah
[14:48] <udslogger> ...
[14:48] <nixternal> oh shit, 19 hours :)
[14:48] <rgreening> bwahaha
[14:48] <nixternal> 10 to 12 hours to atlanta :)
[14:48] <DarkwingDuck> You crashing tha party nixternal?
[14:48] <nixternal> unfortunately not
[14:48] <udslogger> ...aviation...
[14:49] <nixternal> aviation sucks
[14:49] <nixternal> why are we watching sabdfl in black & white?
[14:49] <ScottK> He is black and white.
[14:49] <shadeslayer> lol
[14:50] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: there is purple at the bottom...
[14:50] <DarkwingDuck> Well, Canonical is in purple...
[14:50] <ScottK> Well sure.
[14:50] <nixternal> it's not purple! it is aubergine!
[14:50] <DarkwingDuck> nixternal: +1
[14:50] <Riddell> pst, gnome desktop just got dropped, might want to concentrate on what he's saying :)
[14:51] <shadeslayer> aye
[14:51] <udslogger> glib is the suck
[14:52] <nixternal> hard to understand what he is saying, but i know i didn't hear gnome just got dropped
[14:52] <shtylman> Riddell: :p
[14:52] <udslogger> Riddell: ScottK told me to fix bugs instead :P
[14:52] <ScottK> OK.
[14:52] <shtylman> one cd for both desktop/netbook... sounds familiar :)
[14:52] <Riddell> nixternal: not gnome, gnome's workspace replaced with unity
[14:53] <nixternal> oh yeah, knew that was coming already
[14:53] <udslogger> shtylman: I wonder where that idea came from :P
[14:53] <nixternal> should make more people either switch to kubuntu or another distro :p
[14:53] <shtylman> nixternal: doubt it
[14:53] <nixternal> rickspencer3-uds: you sure love your graphs don't you :)
[14:54] <ScottK> I don't think the word Gnome has been mentioned once.
[14:54] <DarkwingDuck> Nope
[14:54] <udslogger> ScottK: because it is legacy
[14:54] <udslogger> oh gosh
[14:54] <udslogger> libinfinote is scary
[14:54] <rickspencer3-uds> nixternal, corrext, I love me some graphs
[14:54] <ScottK> Ah.  There we are.
[14:54] <udslogger> ah
[14:54] <udslogger> here comes gnome
[14:54] <nixternal> i heard zeitgeist at least once, and unity a bunch of times
[14:55] <DarkwingDuck> And people wonder why I use KDE
[14:56] <nixternal> unity is pretty sharp, but for me it takes a bit to getting used to for some reason
[14:56] <DarkwingDuck> I'll stick to plasma workspaces.
[14:56] <nixternal> everyone is watching the video now. lag big time
[14:57] <shtylman> plasma workspace is not that great either
[15:03] <DarkwingDuck> ice cream?
[15:04] <DarkwingDuck> ROFL
[15:05] <shadeslayer> hahahaha
[15:06] <DarkwingDuck> Three releases plus the Unity move...
[15:07] <DarkwingDuck> udslogger: what's up with Kobby? You work too fast to follow :P
[15:07] <udslogger> it is broken, it is fucking broken, it is so horrible code, I think I need to leave and throw up
[15:07] <DarkwingDuck> udslogger: that bad?
[15:07] <udslogger> glib is like a fly in ice cream!
[15:08] <DarkwingDuck> udslogger: too bad it isn't Harry Potter chocolate flys....
[15:08] <udslogger> I also want such a fly
[15:09] <udslogger> so it fails in inf-communication-manager.c:439
[15:09] <DarkwingDuck> Of course it does...
[15:09] <DarkwingDuck> Why would it work?
[15:15] <udslogger> good sofware ought to work
[15:39] <txwikinger> Antigua 4 ?
[16:26] <ulysses> udslogger: shout a loud „EXTERMINATE”!
[16:30] <udslogger> nah
[16:30] <udslogger> too shy
[17:11] <agateau> does anyone know where libpolkit-grant2 want in Maverick?
[17:13] <agateau> s/want/went/
[17:14]  * agateau can't build polkit-qt from kdesupport trunk because of that :/
[17:20] <Lex79> ScottK: when you have time, kdebase is in binary new
[17:25] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: ping
[17:26] <shadeslayer> Quintasan: come to #ubuntu-uds-Bonaire2
[18:01] <nixternal> hrmm, plenaries should be at the end of the day and not right after lunch.
[20:01]  * udslogger was all sleepy
[20:01] <udslogger> oh, actually I still am
[20:09] <nixternal> udslogger: you silly bum, you forgot bonaire 3 in your script :p  easy fix
[20:47] <nixternal> <-- looking at u1 stuff....holy shit it hurts my brain...now i see why you tossed it udslogger :p
[20:47] <JontheEchidna> fangs and claws? orly?
[20:48] <nixternal> yeah, it was good....everyone was gasping, going 'no, really?' and then some
[20:48] <jjesse> sorry not following UDS
[20:48] <jjesse> in response to what?
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> http://blog.nixternal.com/2010.10.25/uds-remotely/ the next-to-last bullet point
[20:49] <JontheEchidna> yay @ kobby finally being usable
[20:50] <jjesse> haha the default browser discussion
[20:50]  * JontheEchidna goes browsing the UDS kobby docs
[20:52] <nixternal> the docs are really slim it seems
[20:52] <DarkwingDuck> Gobby crashed for a few hours
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> oh, is there still a session going on? the ubuntuone thing is changing
[20:53] <DarkwingDuck> The gobby server
[20:53] <DarkwingDuck> Aye
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> neat
[20:54] <JontheEchidna> almost over though :(
[20:54] <DarkwingDuck> valorie is updating the Kubuntu ones...
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> I knew that merging kmail2 into trunk was a bad idea from the start
[20:57] <JontheEchidna> and no, this isn't a case of "hindsight 20-20", I really did think it was a bad idea then
[20:58] <JontheEchidna> after the kaddressbook port
[21:01] <JontheEchidna> wow, two Qt talks going on in the same timeslot tomorrow. Qt is getting popular
[21:01] <crimsun> "getting popular for *buntu?" ;)
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> I'll try to make it to the KubuntuNattyCode talk via remote participation
[21:02] <JontheEchidna> depends on how circuits lab goes tomorrow
[21:04] <JontheEchidna> man, I never thought it would suck to have the talks happnening in your own timezone like that ;-)
[21:04] <shtylman> haha
[21:04] <shtylman> taco where are you located?
[21:04] <shtylman> sadness
[21:04] <nixternal> he is in new york or mass...somewhere out east
[21:05] <shtylman> east I figured
[21:05] <shtylman> I am east
[21:05] <shtylman> was just curious what local
[21:07] <nixternal> it isn't chicago, and that is all that matters :p
[21:52] <udslogger> I am the master
[21:52] <shadeslayer> udslogger: 0_o
[21:52] <shadeslayer> where are you?!
[21:52] <udslogger> minion!
[21:53] <udslogger> in the hall way
[21:53] <udslogger> and actually we have need for you
[21:53] <udslogger> very urgently
[21:53] <shadeslayer> where?
[21:53] <shadeslayer> which one?
[21:53] <udslogger> at the exit
[21:53] <shadeslayer> ah coming
[21:54] <shadeslayer> I am a fish
[22:01] <shtylman> I think tonight I will begin my multi part rant on kde environment :)
[22:01] <shtylman> blog entries
[22:04] <udslogger> fregl: tell shadeslayer about attica or I will tell lydia that you refuse collaboration
[22:05] <fregl> moin, whazzup?
[22:06]  * fregl goes home and to bed instead of giving lectures now
[22:08] <udslogger> !find aurorae
[22:09] <udslogger> fregl: ok, shadeslayer do not complain to fregl while he is asleep
[22:10] <shadeslayer> right
[22:39] <maco> udslogger: whatd you do to valorie's machine???
[22:40] <udslogger> [22:52:40] <udslogger> I am the master
[22:40] <udslogger> that I did
[22:40] <udslogger> ...
[22:40] <maco> udslogger: she said you turned on 3g. whered you turn on 3g?
[22:47] <shadeslayer> maco: when are you arriving?
[22:47] <maco> about 10pm
[22:47] <shadeslayer> ah ok
[23:30] <udslogger> shadeslayer: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/blah.license
[23:32] <shadeslayer> hahaha
[23:43] <Riddell> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/appdevs-kubuntu-n-rekonq-wishlist
[23:46] <shadeslayer> valorie: http://aplg.kollide.net/tmp/blah.license


[00:18] <racarr> Hello!
[00:19] <RAOF> No longer eating delicious desert?
[00:19] <racarr> Back home :D it will probably take a few days for the dust to fully leave my lungs though.
[00:27] <RAOF> Ooh. I *can* slot in a MockSurface. Yay!
[00:41] <RAOF> Oh, no.
[00:41] <RAOF> That's a lie.
[02:04] <smspillaz> racarr: !!
[02:14] <robert_ancell> RAOF, did you get anywhere with XMir+focus switching?
[02:15] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Yeah, I'm just preparing to propose a Mir branch to fix an annoyance there.
[02:15] <robert_ancell> RAOF, cool
[02:15] <robert_ancell> RAOF, also, do you think there's any version dependency that could help bug 1218932?
[02:16] <robert_ancell> The depends of u-s-c on xmir is a bit suspect already, not sure if there's any minimum version that makes sense
[02:16] <robert_ancell> actually, I guess that should be mir with a minimum version on a driver, though it should be a recommends I guess
[02:19] <RAOF> Yeah, I need to think about that a bit more.
[02:23] <racarr> smspillaz: !!?!!
[02:59] <RAOF> robert_ancell: https://code.launchpad.net/~raof/mir/unfocus-on-surface-destroy/+merge/183563 is available for your pleasure.
[02:59] <robert_ancell> RAOF, the name sounds like a useful feature :)
[03:01] <robert_ancell> RAOF, does the destroy event not get to the client?
[03:03] <RAOF> robert_ancell: It does, but you don't know whether the surface was focused or not.
[03:05] <robert_ancell> RAOF, would it be better just to add a mir_surface_get_has_focus()? This isn't like X - Mir will always notify if you get focus
[03:06] <robert_ancell> I'm just thinking that unfocus due to deletion is a slightly separate case to being unfocussed for a particular reason
[03:08] <RAOF> It is, yes. I could add has_focus(), but it would be a bit racy - you'd need to check it in the surface deletion callback to avoid possibble races (and that's non-obvious).
[03:10] <robert_ancell> RAOF, you say "We probably need to rethink focus entirely, but this is an incremental improvement that I need" - can't XMir track the focus itself?
[03:10] <RAOF> I could, yes.
[03:30] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Actually, I'm not sure whether I *could* do focus tracking in XMir. Aside from the locking being a huge pain in the arse, I'm not clear on what our message ordering guarantees are.
[03:30] <RAOF> I could do it with a mir_surface_get_has_focus(), though.
[03:30] <robert_ancell> RAOF, for input it doesn't matter about ordering right? You grab input devices when getting a focus event, and drop them when getting an unfocus or destroy
[03:31] <robert_ancell> RAOF, but with duflu's second opinion, I'm happy to approve the MP anyway
[03:31] <duflu> I think it's OK to say "we're not really sure what's focussed when" for now. The API is too racy (by design) to be sure.
[03:32] <RAOF> That branch guarantees that a released surface always ends up unfocused from the client API's perspective.
[03:32] <robert_ancell> RAOF, btw, I was thinking - do you think XMir will drop the input devices fast enough when switching to the second XMir? Could both XMirs get duplicate events during the changeover?
[03:32] <RAOF> Fair question; that's entirely possible.
[03:33] <duflu> robert_ancell: Even if you guaranteed ordering in the protocol, you can never guarantee when each XMir will be scheduled by the kernel and process the messages.
[03:33] <robert_ancell> duflu, correct
[03:34] <robert_ancell> duflu, but if XMir is being driven by the events, then the ordering isn't really relevant to it in this case
[03:34] <robert_ancell> RAOF, btw, did you see https://dvdhrm.wordpress.com/2013/08/25/sane-session-switching/
[03:34] <RAOF> robert_ancell: Yeah.
[03:34] <RAOF> I think I commented on that one?
[03:36] <RAOF> Yes :)
[03:37] <robert_ancell> ah, I didn't read the comments.  I guess planet.freedesktop probably has more credibility here
[03:44] <RAOF> Heh.
[03:44] <RAOF> robert_ancell: So, probably the *correct* way to do this is a synchronous “please switch now” client API for xmir.
[03:45] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I was wondering if we are forced to do it the correct way or continue with our hack
[03:45] <RAOF> It depends on how fixed you want the bug.
[03:46] <robert_ancell> RAOF, fixed enought that it doesn't bite us in the arse later
[03:47] <RAOF> Without a request/ack style API there *will* be periods where both X servers are consuming events.
[03:48] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yeah, I think we just have to bite the bullet and do it properly via u-s-c. I don't really want to add it into the Mir protocol, but that would be the easiest and most reliable place to put it
[03:48] <RAOF> We don't have anywhere else to put it :/
[03:49] <robert_ancell> RAOF, well, if XMir could contact u-s-c via a different socket we could do something custom and temporary. But XMir doesn't really know u-s-c exists
[03:49] <RAOF> We could teach it.
[03:49] <RAOF> It'd not be super hard.
[03:50] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I suppose we could open a pipe and give you the fd in an env variable
[03:50] <RAOF> Or as another commandline option.
[03:51] <RAOF> Note: we are discussing the most terrible thing ever. ☺
[03:51] <robert_ancell> Yes, I feel dirty
[04:41]  * duflu goes to play in the rain, erm lunch
[05:55] <duflu> RAOF: Any idea why X is always slightly clumsy at changing modes? I always see flickering and sometimes briefly misplaced outputs while it reconfigures. This happens without X too. Plain Mir doesn't.
[05:56] <duflu> This happens *without* Mir too
[05:58] <duflu> Ugh. I mean the issue with X pre-dates Mir. A pure Mir environment seems to switch layouts much more cleanly. But I guess I haven't seen pure Mir switch modes yet
[06:08] <RAOF> duflu: I think XMir exposes a case where Mir does some unnecessary modesetting.
[06:08] <duflu> RAOF: No I mean X has always done this... without Mir
[06:08] <RAOF> But the X issue is bound up in X's "one framebuffer to rule them all"
[06:09] <RAOF> ie: you *can't* turn on a new monitor without touching the existing monitors.
[06:09] <duflu> Oh. Yes.
[06:09] <RAOF> Various drivers can do better and worse at mitigating that; Intel seems to make a fair amount of trouble to mitigate that (copying the contents of the previous framebuffer, etc)
[06:13] <duflu> RAOF: On an unrelated note, would intel's double/triple buffering in the DDX affect the generic logic of the xmir module?
[06:14] <RAOF> I don't believe so, no; from memory, those codepaths are in the drmmode bits, which we bypass.
[06:15] <RAOF> Bah! How do I get Jenkins to retry the flaky test?
[06:15] <duflu> RAOF: Click on the link. Or shout at it.
[06:16] <RAOF> What's the IP of s-jenkins?
[06:16] <RAOF> That's behind the VPN, right?
[06:16] <duflu> Think so
[06:22] <duflu> RAOF: Any tips for explorers wishing to dive into XMir's damage tracking?
[06:24] <RAOF> duflu: The main business is in xmir-window.c, where xmir_window_get_dirty maintains a circular list of damage regions in struct xmir_window.
[06:24] <duflu> RAOF: And xmir_window is effectively one Mir output?
[06:25] <RAOF> Right. We have one xmir_window per output (strictly speaking, one per CRTC)
[06:25] <RAOF> They're sitting in xmir_screen->root_window_fragments
[06:42] <hikiko> RAOF, should the multimonitor work in the lightdm screen?
[06:43] <hikiko> (before we start unity)
[06:44] <RAOF> hikiko: Yes, but you'll have mirrored displays because unity-greeter doesn't set anything different.
[06:44] <hikiko> mmm is there any setting in lightdm I should have or the defaults are fine?
[06:45] <RAOF> The defaults are fine.
[06:45] <hikiko> in an Intel 4000 I have multimonitor working on unity but not in lightdm
[06:45] <hikiko> which is very strange
[06:45] <RAOF> As in: your second display doesn't show anything?
[06:46] <hikiko> it shows a vertical purple line
[06:46] <hikiko> I ll upload a screenshot in a while
[06:52] <hikiko> RAOF: http://i.imgur.com/ulUN09l.jpg
[06:52] <hikiko> but as soon as I login everything is working fine
[06:52] <RAOF> Huh.
[06:52] <RAOF> Interesting.
[06:53] <RAOF> I wonder what it's doing?
[06:53] <hikiko> maybe there's something wrong in my system
[06:54] <hikiko> how can I check that lightdm uses xmir for sure?
[06:54] <RAOF> grep -i xmir /var/log/Xorg.${DISPLAY#:}.log
[06:55] <hikiko> also this occurs when I have the 2nd monitor plugged from the begining, I will check what happens if I start without the 2nd monitor plugged
[06:58] <hikiko> in Xorg.2.log I have this line:
[06:58] <hikiko> [  2356.280] xorg-server 2:1.13.3-0ubuntu6+xmir3 (For technical support please see http://www.ubuntu.com/support)
[06:58] <hikiko> am I using xmir?
[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:00] <hikiko> good morning dholbach
[07:01] <hikiko> RAOF, ^ I think I use xmir... shall I fill a bug report?
[07:02] <RAOF> hikiko: That would suggest that you're *not* using mir
[07:02] <RAOF> Also, that you've got an old Xserver :)
[07:02] <hikiko> haha
[07:02] <hikiko> great
[07:03] <dholbach> hi hikiko
[07:03] <hikiko> so RAOF
[07:03] <hikiko> there must be a conf?
[07:04] <RAOF> hikiko: Do you have unity-system-compositor installed? It installs /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf.d/10-unity-system-compositor, which enables usc and hence XMir.
[07:04] <hikiko> or installing xserver-xorg-mir is enough
[07:06] <hikiko> RAOF, if I run apt-get install there are extra packages :) it should be that
[07:06] <hikiko> (I mean apt-get install unity-system-compositor)
[07:06] <RAOF> Yeah, apt-get install unity-system-compositor should do it.
[07:07] <hikiko> ok I found what it was: when you upgrade unity-system-compositor with apt-get install there's a question
[07:08] <hikiko> install the package maintainer's version / keep your current etc and default == keep current
[07:08] <hikiko> let me try again
[07:09] <hikiko> fixed :D
[07:10] <hikiko> RAOF, now unity wallpaper
[07:10] <hikiko> has the size of the small monitor
[07:10] <RAOF> Yup, that sounds right.
[07:10] <hikiko> and the dash
[07:10] <RAOF> We clone by default.
[07:10] <hikiko> ok so I leave it like that?
[07:11] <RAOF> Oh, you probably want to set up a spanned desktop; the Displays capplet will let you do that.
[07:11] <RAOF> You can set it up just like you want.
[07:12] <hikiko> cool :)
[07:12] <hikiko> and RAOF another question (final)
[07:12] <hikiko> I want to test xmir for the first time
[07:13] <hikiko> I build and run ./mir_demo_server... --enable-xmir and that's all?
[07:13] <hikiko> what should I expect to see?
[07:16] <RAOF> hikiko: Once you've installed unity-system-compositor you'll be using xmir all the time.
[07:16] <hikiko> I mean the xmir I will build
[07:17] <hikiko> not the system's xmir
[07:17] <RAOF> Ah. In that case, run mir_demo_server_shell, and then on a different VT run “Xorg :33 -mir 1 -retro -verbose 7”
[07:17] <RAOF> (The :33 and 1 are just placeholder values; you can use whatever you want there)
[07:18] <RAOF> When you switch back to mir_demo_server_shell you'll see the delightful X root weave, which is the black and white crosshatch thingy.
[07:18] <hikiko> and then how do you stop it? just killing mir_demo_server_Shell?
[07:18] <RAOF> Ctrl-C works fine :)
[07:24] <duflu> hikiko: Ctrl+Alt+Backspace is how you get out of mir_demo_server_*
[07:25] <duflu> Ctrl+C was disabled a while back
[07:26] <hikiko> yes that's what I noticed :)
[07:26] <hikiko> thanks duflu and RAOF :D
[07:26] <RAOF> Oh, yeah. But Ctrl+C will kill Xorg.
[07:26] <RAOF> When you VT switch back to your Xorg-running VT.
[07:27] <hikiko> oh, I see
[07:28] <hikiko> and one more question to setup a spanned desktop do I need to do something on mir or I do it from unity settings?
[07:38] <hikiko> found
[08:31] <duflu> RAOF: Woo, no time-travelling frames any more
[08:32] <tvoss_> duflu \o/
[08:32] <duflu> Just need to *repeat* and verify. It's not a fix. Just a hack right now
[08:32] <tvoss_> duflu, what is the idea?
[08:33] <duflu> tvoss_: XMir seems to be reporting incorrect damage regions
[08:33] <tvoss_> duflu, ah
[08:34] <duflu> tvoss_: Still, somehow, affected by XMir's multimonitor logic
[08:34] <tvoss_> duflu, hmmm ... interesting
[08:34] <tvoss_> duflu, go ahead then ;)
[11:03] <hikiko> is there any way to temporarily disable xmir?
[14:26] <smspillaz> tvoss_: ^ interesting comment by duflu - do apps need to provide a damage region or is it just assumed to be sizeof(surface) on swap_buffers?
[14:26] <smspillaz> I didn't see anything in the mir api about it
[14:32] <tvoss_> smspillaz, no damage region, yet
[14:35] <smspillaz> tvoss_: ah okay. What was duflu's comment about damage regions about then?
[14:36] <tvoss_> smspillaz, duflu was talking about the xmir world, so mostly the x <-> mir integration parts over there
[14:37] <smspillaz> tvoss_: ah you mean xmir reporting incorrect damage regions to x clients?
[14:37]  * smspillaz thought that xdamage didn't live in the ddx
[14:37] <tvoss_> smspillaz, I would think vice-versa
[14:38] <tvoss_> smspillaz, let me check
[14:58] <sil2100> Hi everyone!
[14:59] <sil2100> Do you know if we still need to enable the Mir PPA for daily-releasing Mir?
[14:59] <sil2100> i.e. D09add_ppa~mir-team~staging ?
[14:59] <sil2100> Since I would prefer not to use non-standard PPAs when releasing stuff
[15:00] <sil2100> kgunn: ^ do you know?
[15:00]  * alan_g wishes he didn't need to learn so much about [E]GL
[15:00] <kgunn> sil2100: mir is in archive...no ppa needed
[15:00] <sil2100> Awesome
[15:01] <kgunn> at most, for those not already running xmir...just apt-get install unity-system-compositor
[15:01] <racarr> Morning!
[15:01] <kgunn> racarr: welcome back
[15:02] <kdub> good morning!
[15:02]  * kdub is back
[15:02] <racarr> kgunn: Thanks :)
[15:05] <alan_g> racarr: welcome back
[15:07] <racarr> alan_g: Thanks :)
[15:11] <kgunn> kdub: welcome back!!
[15:12] <kdub> thanks!
[15:14] <racarr> I keep on looking for some email titled like
[15:14] <racarr> Mirpocalypse
[15:14] <racarr> but havent found it yet. Seems like things are going pretty well?
[15:20] <alan_g> racarr: no dramatic failures
[15:21] <alan_g> but we've not been able to address the lack of a coherent data model and there are plenty of bugs and missing features
[15:57] <racarr> alan_g: :) Thanks.
[16:50] <racarr> Yay, email finished
[16:50] <racarr> I think I replied to all emails last week (except bugs + MRs) that warrant a response from me
[16:51] <racarr> so if you sent me an email last week and are waiting to hear back
[16:51] <racarr> please resend / ping me.
[17:33] <racarr> kgunn: Hey. I think I am keeping myself busy until lunch catching up on commit logs then bugs but can we schedule a sync for this afternoon maybe
[17:33] <racarr> So I can prioritize some tasks?
[17:33] <kgunn> racarr: sounds good
[17:34] <kgunn> i've got thing around 4pm my time...other than that i'm pretty open
[17:35] <racarr> kgunn: Ok how about in 2.5 hours (3 your time?)
[17:35] <kgunn> sounds good
[17:36] <racarr> Ok. Thanks :)
[17:52] <racarr|lunch> Back soon!
[20:23] <racarr> updating my phone image now
[20:23] <racarr> excited to see last weeks progress :)
[20:39] <kdub> racarr, once you've updated, could you try the acceptance tests? seeing some failures there on the phone
[20:43] <racarr> kdub: ok
[20:43] <racarr> updating my phone image earlier really meant charging my ultra dead neuxs 4 so it will be a bit stil
[20:47] <kdub> yeah, mine died a few times mid-update because it ran out of battery
[20:48] <racarr> its so obvious that comcast has been throttling me and is now rewarding me for not using any internet for a week -.-
[20:48] <racarr> Been getting like 3MBs all day
[21:00] <racarr> Phone looks pretty great :)
[22:03] <kgunn> racarr: on the phone...you notice the flicker yet ?...i'm wondering if that's z-order fighting
[22:13] <kgunn> kdub: ping
[22:13] <kdub> kgunn, pong
[22:14] <ricmm> racarr: ping
[22:16] <kgunn> kdub: hey...so i was trying to do mir logging on android...so i did stop unity8, then exported
[22:17] <kgunn> MIR_SERVER_MSG_PROCESSOR_REPORT=log
[22:17] <kgunn> MIR_SERVER_DISPLAY_REPORT
[22:17] <kgunn> =log
[22:17] <kgunn> MIR_SERVER_GLOG=1
[22:17] <kgunn> and MIR_SERVER_GLOG_LOG=/tmp/
[22:18] <kgunn> but...no luck
[22:18] <kgunn> did i miss something
[22:18] <kgunn> (obviously i restarted unity8 after all that)
[22:18] <kdub> hmm, seems like that should work
[22:19] <kgunn> kdub: is the log file names something funny (like j1jk2k3.something) or something obvious like (mir_glog.log)
[22:19] <kdub> MIR_SERVER_GLOG_LOG_DIR=/tmp
[22:24] <kdub> kgunn^^
[22:26] <kdub> the name should be... mir.hostname.user.loglevel.timestamp
[22:27] <racarr> ricmm: Pong!
[22:29] <racarr> kgunn: Yes! I saw it twice pretty quickly but then not again yet
[22:29] <racarr> kgunn: I dont think its that but would have to dig deeper
[22:30] <ricmm> kgunn: it doesnt inherit the environment from where you are restarting the job
[22:30] <ricmm> kgunn: you'd need to add that to the unity8.conf job
[22:33] <kgunn> ricmm: thanks for solving that mystery for me!