[08:49] <kraut> moin
[09:07] <siretart> MootBot:
[09:07] <siretart> #help
[09:07] <siretart> #startmeeting
[09:07] <siretart> hmmm
[09:09] <dholbach> siretart: according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScribesTeam/MootBot #startmeeting sould work
[09:09] <dholbach> #endmeeting
[09:10] <siretart> dholbach: in other meetings I've seen MootBot actually doing some answers
[09:10] <dholbach> yeah
[09:10] <siretart> so there seems to be a bit more magic behind it
[09:10] <dholbach> or it's broken
[03:57] <popey> @schedule
[03:57] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 24 Sep 19:00: Screencast Team | 25 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00: Desktop Team Development
[04:01] <rexy_> !UTC
[04:01] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about utc - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[08:03] <iGadget> hi
[08:03] <iGadget> so the meeting is in 1 hr?
[08:04] <iGadget> 20:00
[08:04] <iGadget> ohwell :)
[08:05] <iGadget> guess I'll just stick around
[08:25] <popey> :)
[08:25] <popey> yes iGadget, it's 20:00 for the screencast meeting
[08:25] <popey> 20:00 UK time
[08:25] <popey> gah @ timezones
[08:26] <iGadget> popey: np, I'll stick around ;)
[08:28] <iGadget> I guess it's the daylight-saving-time-stuff that's making global coordination troublesome again ;)
[08:28] <Vaelen> Here ya go:
[08:28] <Vaelen> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?cities=900,24,136,195,438
[08:29] <Vaelen> You can customize it for whatever timezones you want to look at.
[08:31] <zul> popey: date --utc also works
[08:32] <iGadget> Vaelen, zul: perhaps those are nice tips for the meeting page...
[08:36] <Vaelen> Sorry for a very newbie question, but which meeting is going to take place at 20:00 UTC?  I'm supposed to attend the next Kubuntu meeting, but I'm having a hard time figuring out when that is going to be, exactly.
[08:38] <iGadget> Vaelen: next meeting is about screencasts
[08:38] <Vaelen> Oh hey, maybe I should read the channel topic next time. :P
[08:38] <Riddell> Vaelen: there is no meeting at 20:00 today
[08:38] <Riddell> Vaelen: the next kubuntu meeting should be on the first wednesday of next month
[08:38] <iGadget> Riddell: yes there is
[08:38] <Vaelen> Riddell: Ok, cool.  What time do you normally have them?
[08:38] <iGadget> just not about kubuntu ;)
[08:38] <Riddell> Vaelen: what are you attending for?
[08:39] <Riddell> Vaelen: whenever is most convenient for people
[08:39] <Vaelen> I added something to the agenda after talking about it in #kubuntu-devel for a while.
[09:00] <popey> Bong!
[09:00] <popey> Screencast Team meeting starts
[09:00] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070924
[09:00] <popey> short agenda for today :)
[09:01] <popey> anyone here for the meeting?
[09:01] <spd106> I'm here again
[09:01] <popey> yay
[09:02] <popey> * Action points from last meeting
[09:02] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070910
[09:02] <popey> hmm, most of that will become part of the next item, so will just jump to it
[09:02] <popey> * Current status
[09:02] <popey> We are behind again :(
[09:03] <popey> I blame 3 things:-
[09:03] <popey> 1. Having two children whose birthdays are in september
[09:03] <popey> 2. Having a week holiday
[09:03] <popey> 3. Me being lazy ;)
[09:04] <popey> So it looks like I won't be able to make 20 more screencasts before the end of the month to take us from the last one (10) to the 30th
[09:04] <popey> So I suggest that instead I will carry on making them, numbering them 11-30 but releasing them when they're ready
[09:04] <popey> Which means the month of screencasts lasts for about 2 months
[09:04] <popey> which is of course disappointing
[09:05] <popey> but it was a mad plan anyway
[09:05] <popey> I would rather continue to make high quality screencasts than churn out 20 small ones of low quality
[09:05] <spd106> I agree
[09:05] <popey> how does that sound?
[09:05] <popey> should I put an announcement on the site?
[09:06] <popey> we have already had people asking in comments about when the next ones will be out, where they are, what has happened..
[09:06] <popey> I have one that I made today that I will upload tomorrow, I propose uloading then posting a comment afterwards detailing the revised plan
[09:06] <iGadget> sounds like a plan
[09:06] <popey> we have also lost Andrew Gee which is a resource less for making screencasts
[09:06] <popey> which doesn't help
[09:07] <popey> Ok, I will publish this next one "Updates & Upgrades" tomorrow and put an announcement in
[09:07] <popey> yeah, I also need to upload some of the queue that built up
[09:07] <iGadget> Alan, there's a chance I'll have to step down as well :(
[09:07] <popey> oh dear
[09:07] <iGadget> Allthough I haven't contributed that much yet
[09:08] <popey> heh :)
[09:08] <popey> Hey, I'm happy to get any contributions at all, no pressure on anyone
[09:08] <popey> It's not like the screencasts are going to delay the release of Ubuntu :)
[09:08] <popey> (not this release anyway ;)
[09:08] <popey> I am pragmatic if nothing else
[09:09] <popey> I need to also look at revising the plan now I am back from holiday
[09:09] <popey> I shall mail the list with the plan I had and see if we can get a discussion going on what screencasts people want
[09:09] <popey> or maybe ask on the site?
[09:09] <iGadget> Perhaps both?
[09:09] <popey> Post a message asking for requests as comments?
[09:09] <popey> yeah, good idea
[09:10] <spd106> Are we going to use 7.10 for all screencasts?
[09:10] <popey> good question
[09:10] <popey> yes and no
[09:10] <popey> the updates & upgrades one I did today uses dapper, edgy, feisty and gutsy :)
[09:10] <popey> for the most part 7.10 would seem like a good target
[09:10] <spd106> It's just the background in Gutsy changed recently
[09:10] <popey> as it will soon be released, so it means the screencasts are "relavent"
[09:10] <popey> yeah, i noticed that today :)
[09:10] <popey> these things will happen
[09:11] <iGadget> it's an improvement, though
[09:11] <popey> on all screencasts that feature gutsy I do try to mention that its based on a development release
[09:11] <popey> And I don't expect gutsy to change _that_ much between now and oct 19th
[09:11] <popey> 18th
[09:11] <popey> a few cosmetic things isn't a major deal
[09:12] <iGadget> maybe it's a bit far off, but should we focus on moving to 8.04 as soon as it's usable, since it'll be an LTS?
[09:12] <popey> heheh
[09:12] <popey> it won't be usable until the end of the year :)
[09:12] <popey> at least
[09:12] <iGadget> okay, too far off then ;)
[09:12] <popey> in my experience the delta between one release and the next is actually pretty small
[09:13] <popey> if you compare dapper and gutsy there's quite a difference, but compare edgy and feisty and the difference is much less
[09:13] <popey> there are changes of course, and we should be aware of them
[09:13] <spd106> It's not like we'll be using KDE 4
[09:13] <popey> but I don't think we should fret about it too much
[09:13] <popey> no, indeed
[09:13] <popey> ok, that's current status
[09:13] <iGadget> what about (I'm brainstorming here)... 'scripting' the screencasts so they can be redone easily in another version?
[09:13] <popey> they are _kinda_ scripted
[09:14] <popey> but not too much
[09:14] <popey> you mean a storyboard type thing?
[09:14] <iGadget> no, I mean an automated kind of thing
[09:14] <popey> oh
[09:14] <iGadget> I don't know if it's possible
[09:14] <popey> me neither
[09:14] <iGadget> would it be worth investigating?
[09:14] <popey> worth a thought, yes
[09:15] <popey> sorry, i was thinking then :)
[09:15] <iGadget> np, I'm a slow reader ;)
[09:15] <popey> will note that and we could have a chat on the list about it
[09:15] <popey> g o o d
[09:15] <popey> any questions/comments about the curent status?
[09:16] <popey> * Month Of Screencasts 2007 progress
[09:16] <popey> 10 of 30 complete, to be 11 of 30 tomorrow
[09:16] <popey> more ideas needed - as mentioned
[09:17] <popey> will mail the list and canvas opinion on the site
[09:17] <popey> blimey, that's it
[09:17] <popey> fastest meeting ever
[09:17] <popey> any further questions, comments or points you guys want to talk about
[09:17] <iGadget> geez... and it's my first :)
[09:17] <popey> we have some time
[09:18] <popey> ok
[09:18] <spd106> Where's the MoS schedule again? I've lost it
[09:19] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MonthOfScreencasts
[09:19] <spd106> Oh yeah
[09:19] <popey> :)
[09:19] <popey> i should be uploading two tomorrow
[09:20] <popey> assuming I get a nice quiet house to work in :S
[09:20] <popey> (which is a big issue here - screaming babies in the background of a screencast don't sound good) :)
[09:20] <popey> Matthew Rossi asked if we could have a meeting that was at a time when he could attend - he is in Aus
[09:21] <popey> so he ideally wanted one on a weekend
[09:21] <iGadget> just a suggestion about meeting on IRC... you guys know mebeam.com?
[09:21] <popey> I didn't, but I do now
[09:22] <popey> thing about irc is that it has a very low barrier to entry
[09:22] <popey> many of the web conferencing systems require flash, a webcam, a mic etc
[09:22] <iGadget> true, if you're a good typist ;)
[09:22] <spd106> Do you need a camera?
[09:22] <popey> looks like it
[09:22] <iGadget> for mebeam.com, you do yes
[09:22] <spd106> That'll be tricky then
[09:23] <popey> it reduces the potential people who could join I guess?
[09:23] <popey> given every other team meets on irc..
[09:23] <iGadget> okay, perhaps that's too much then. But what about audio converencing?
[09:23] <popey> iGadget: interesting point
[09:23] <popey> the Ubuntu-UK loco team are looking at using asterisk
[09:23] <popey> to do call conferencing via SIP or something
[09:24] <iGadget> I figure most people involved in screencasts would have a mic... ;)
[09:24] <popey> needs a mic and a reasonable net connection
[09:24] <popey> heh :)
[09:24] <popey> the problem with all the video/audio conferences is logging though
[09:24] <popey> i can easily copy/paste this log into the wiki, job done
[09:24] <iGadget> true, true
[09:24] <popey> with the audio/video ones someone has to transcribe it
[09:24] <Daviey> SIP: ^ anybody wanna help test?
[09:24] <popey> heh :)
[09:25] <popey> I will test with you another time yes Daviey :)
[09:25] <popey> for those that don't know, Daviey is the expert on Asterisk around here
[09:25] <popey> and voip in general
[09:25] <iGadget> cool
[09:25] <Daviey> 'expert' hmm :P
[09:25] <spd106> What about a SIP screencast Davey?
[09:26] <popey> heh
[09:26] <iGadget> hehe :)
[09:26] <popey> we have that scheduled actually
[09:26] <Daviey> Isn't there already an ekiga screencast?
[09:26] <popey> one all about voip
[09:26] <popey> not one of ours no Daviey
[09:26] <popey> i was thinking something more general, not necessarily just ekiga
[09:26] <iGadget> ekiga would be nice... since it's already shipping with ubuntu
[09:26] <popey> agreed
[09:26] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MonthOfScreencasts
[09:26] <iGadget> (never got it working, though)
[09:26] <popey> ^ look at the bottom of that page :)
[09:26] <iGadget> okay, will do
[09:26] <popey> "ekiga" :)
[09:27] <popey> just needs someone to make it :)
[09:27] <popey> you could subscribe to it :)
[09:27] <Daviey> Well i'm not sure how much you could cover.. Would either need to be reallly high level - or pretty lowlevel (technical and ~20mins)
[09:28] <popey> 30 mins isn't unreasonable
[09:28] <popey> i made a 40 min one today :)
[09:28] <Daviey> eager beaver
[09:28] <popey> anyway, can I just get the next meeting date out of the way
[09:28] <popey> I propose the weekend of the 13th october
[09:28] <popey> to allow the aussies to join in
[09:28] <popey> thats over 2 weeks away
[09:29] <popey> but with our slim agenda I don't think that's an issue?
[09:29] <iGadget> I have one proposal about subtitles, if we're done with the SIP thing :)
[09:29] <popey> go ahead
[09:29] <iGadget> there are a lot of subs now that are on screen for less than 2 secs now
[09:29] <iGadget> thats _really_ fast
[09:30] <iGadget> most people I checked can't read that fast
[09:30] <popey> hmm, I talk too fast?
[09:30] <iGadget> maybe
[09:30] <spd106> yep
[09:30] <iGadget> but what I usually do is merge two subs together
[09:30] <iGadget> in most cases, that's enough
[09:30] <spd106> It's either short time or they take up too much screen space
[09:30] <iGadget> indeed, that does occur
[09:30] <popey> so it would be better if I talk slower, say less?
[09:30] <popey> leave big gaps :)
[09:31] <iGadget> especially in languages that need 'more space' :)
[09:31] <popey> heh
[09:31] <popey> like Deutsch?
[09:31] <Daviey> Did you guys find a solution to multi-audio track?
[09:31] <iGadget> like nederlands ;)
[09:31] <popey> ahhh
[09:31] <iGadget> deutsch probably as well
[09:31] <popey> Daviey: ogg does support multiple audio tracks
[09:31] <popey> but the problem is we would have to keep remastering every time someone made a new audio track
[09:31] <popey> and re-encode
[09:32] <popey> and they would bloat up with multiple languages on board
[09:32] <iGadget> it would be very sweet if we could figure out a way to do that smoothly
[09:32] <popey> likely easier to keep them separate
[09:32] <iGadget> mmmkay... true
[09:32] <popey> ok iGadget and spd106 I will endeavour to speak slower
[09:32] <popey> and leave some pauses for text
[09:32] <popey> sorry about that
[09:32] <iGadget> no prob, we all live and learn ;)
[09:32] <popey> indeed
[09:32] <spd106> The applications screencast was particularly bad
[09:32] <popey> this is exactly why we have these meetings :)
[09:33] <iGadget> precisely :)
[09:33] <popey> because there is a lot in it done very quickly?
[09:33] <spd106> yes, too much really
[09:33] <popey> ok
[09:33] <popey> I will bear that in mind for future screencasts
[09:33] <popey> one problem I worry about is that if I go to slow it might get boring
[09:33] <spd106> It was still very good
[09:33] <popey> people might nod off
[09:34] <popey> it's okay spd106 I can take it ;)
[09:34] <iGadget> Well it's quite easy to see - if you're making english subtitles which are on screen less that 2 seconds, that's suspicious
[09:34] <popey> haha
[09:35] <iGadget> usually that's too fast
[09:35] <popey> like small print on a tv advert
[09:35] <iGadget> ghehe... something like that ;)
[09:35] <popey> "Warning, the value of your house may go down as well as up,..."
[09:35] <popey> ok, point taken, will fix that in future ones
[09:35] <iGadget> * toll free number, only connection charges apply ($10,-)
[09:35] <popey> lucky we're only 1/3rd the way through then :)
[09:35] <popey> :)
[09:36] <spd106> Did you get the flash streaming working?
[09:36] <popey> the subtitles in the flash streaming?
[09:36] <spd106> yes
[09:36] <popey> no, not yet
[09:36] <popey> but I haven't spent much time on that
[09:36] <spd106> ok
[09:36] <popey> will do though
[09:37] <spd106> Don't spend too much on that, it can be sorted out later
[09:37] <popey> sure
[09:37] <popey> I spent too long on it the week before holiday
[09:37] <popey> will concentrate on making the screencasts for now
[09:37] <iGadget> so... what about the long term - how are we going to keep track on screencasts that are no longer acurate and need to be updated?
[09:38] <popey> well iGadget that's a very good point#
[09:38] <popey> the one I made today in effect replaces one I made a year ago
[09:38] <popey> and the installing one supplements the installation one I did a year ago too
[09:38] <spd106> deja vu
[09:38] <popey> I guess I could put a note on the old ones "obsolete - please see this screencast" with a link to the newer ones
[09:38] <iGadget> perhaps it would be a good idea to mention which ubuntu versions are affected by the screencast?
[09:38] <popey> the ones this year are more comprehensive though
[09:39] <iGadget> in the screencast itself?
[09:39] <popey> i try to tag them on the site
[09:39] <popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/43 <- only gutsy ones
[09:39] <spd106> Tag them with Ubuntu release or just the date?
[09:39] <iGadget> maybe both :)
[09:39] <popey> http://screencasts.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/35 only dapper
[09:39] <iGadget> there might be screencasts which can last for ages
[09:40] <iGadget> like the one about free software
[09:40] <popey> yeah
[09:40] <iGadget> other ones can become obsolete in the next version, there's no way to be sure in advance I guess
[09:40] <popey> indeed
[09:40] <spd106> New ones every six months
[09:40] <popey> although to be fair the ones about dapper are still accurate
[09:40] <popey> dapper is a current supported release
[09:41] <popey> there is a wider plan here
[09:41] <popey> don't know if I explained previously did I?
[09:41] <popey> to put screencasts directly in ubuntu
[09:41] <spd106> On the DVD?
[09:41] <popey> not sure yet, probably online, streamed
[09:41] <popey> so you can go to Help --> Videos   in any app
[09:42] <iGadget> sweet!
[09:42] <popey> and get a window come up with a selection of videos
[09:42] <popey> that would need some major management
[09:42] <iGadget> that would surely beat the crap out of MS online support
[09:42] <popey> and all the stuff we are learning about during MoS can feed into this
[09:42] <popey> so the feedback I get from you guys is great
[09:42] <popey> it's still an early plan
[09:43] <iGadget> but... that will require massive amounts of work
[09:43] <popey> yup :)
[09:43] <iGadget> do we have enough manpower to do this?
[09:43] <popey> they would be short videos
[09:43] <popey> seconds or minutes long
[09:43] <spd106> It's more online integration too
[09:43] <popey> showing how to do specific tasks
[09:43] <popey> yeah, needs a lot of work
[09:43] <iGadget> which... can be combined to create entire screencasts?
[09:43] <popey> yeah, watch them all back to back
[09:43] <popey> :)
[09:44] <iGadget> a 'lego' sort of screencast-building? nice :)
[09:44] <popey> yeah, I like the building blocks analogy
[09:44] <popey> they could be tagged and rated
[09:44] <spd106> Going back to the scripting thought... would festival be any use?
[09:44] <popey> festival the text to speech thing?
[09:44] <spd106> yeah
[09:44] <popey> useful for?
[09:45] <spd106> automating screencast
[09:45] <popey> I don't know. how do you mean?
[09:45] <iGadget> my idea about scripting was about the visual part only, but if festival is good?
[09:45] <iGadget> I haven't played with it yet
[09:45] <spd106> It cuts the work down a little
[09:46] <iGadget> yes, but if it cuts down the quality too much, I'm not sure if it's an improvement...
[09:46] <iGadget> the audiotrack is key to getting the user involved IMHO
[09:46] <popey> you mean, get festival to "read" the script?
[09:46] <spd106> Yes
[09:46] <popey> ahhh
[09:46] <popey> is festival any good? :)
[09:47] <popey> i haven't tried it for some time
[09:47] <spd106> No idea, just read about it recently
[09:47] <popey> to be honest the audio part is not that time consuming
[09:47] <iGadget> do you know radiohead's 'OK computer'? ;)
[09:47] <popey> its prep, recording the video and editing it that takes the time
[09:47] <popey> the audio takes about as long as the video is in length
[09:47] <popey> if I make a 40 min video the audio takes 40 mins to make (roughly)
[09:48] <popey> but it takes 2+hours to make a 30 min video
[09:48] <iGadget> so I guess we'd gain much more time in getting the video part smoothed out.. right?
[09:49] <popey> yeah, and that's not easy
[09:49] <popey> some of it is planning - figuring out what I am going to video..
[09:49] <iGadget> besides of automated scripting making re-recording a lot easier, could it help save time in the initial recording process?
[09:49] <popey> some of it is videoing
[09:50] <popey> i doubt it would help much to be honest
[09:50] <popey> one day I will create the "how to make a screencast, screencast" that people keep asking me for
[09:50] <spd106> You could then run a competition for the final screencast
[09:50] <iGadget> well, if you really want users to assist you, I suppose that one has a  top priority...
[09:51] <popey> iGadget: i have written it up on the wiki :)
[09:51] <popey> I am not sure this is the thing that stops people
[09:51] <popey> people know how to create them
[09:51] <iGadget> eh...
[09:51] <popey> I am not sure that "knowing how to create a screencast" is what stops people making them
[09:51] <popey> they know how to make them, but they don't have the time to do it?
[09:51] <iGadget> I don't, but I'm just plain lazy besides having way to little time, so nevermind me ;)
[09:51] <popey> it's quicker/easier to make a wiki page then a screencast
[09:52] <popey> exactly :)
[09:52] <popey> nothing wrong with that, that's just the problem we have
[09:52] <popey> people don't have time to commit to something like this
[09:52] <spd106> Would you accept lower res screencasts?
[09:52] <spd106> 1024x768 is all I have
[09:52] <popey> which I why I am glad that I can get on and make them and you guys can transcribe/translate them
[09:52] <iGadget> I thought 1024x768 was okay?
[09:52] <popey> for non-mos2007, yes, definately
[09:53] <popey> we already have some at 1024x768
[09:53] <iGadget> eh... what's mos2007?
[09:53] <popey> Month Of Screencast 2007
[09:53] <popey> :)
[09:53] <iGadget> darn... stupid :)
[09:53] <iGadget> sorry
[09:53] <popey> i.e. if it's "just" a screencast, not specifically for MoS, then yes, 1024x768 is great
[09:53] <popey> np
[09:53] <popey> silly acronym
[09:54] <popey> the only reason is that I specifically wanted 30 high quality, high res ones
[09:54] <spd106> That's what I thought
[09:54] <popey> if you see the front page of the site there are 3 that are 1024x768 :)
[09:54] <popey> what's important is consistent quality
[09:55] <iGadget> but... If we are going to start with this building-block thing, then we should agree on one res only, right?
[09:55] <popey> oh that's not coming for a while :)
[09:55] <popey> i wouldn't start thinking too seriously about that until about November :)
[09:55] <popey> (after UDS Boston) :)
[09:55] <iGadget> okay... so what about smoothing the creation process, would that be doable?
[09:56] <iGadget> working with the istanbul team for example?
[09:56] <iGadget> I mean, making the creating process much simpler and less time consuming?
[09:56] <popey> yeah, I had a meeting with jono about this.. he had some ideas about this subject
[09:56] <popey> he suggested a screencasting application
[09:57] <iGadget> ghehe... his  Next Big Thing after Jokosher? :D
[09:57] <popey> one that gave you a window inside which you have a nested session or something
[09:57] <popey> heh
[09:57] <popey> and recorded it
[09:57] <jono> iGadget: oi! :)
[09:57] <popey> there are already tools that can do this but they are non free
[09:57] <iGadget> jono! :D
[09:57] <popey> and anyway I don't think this would shave massive amounts off the time
[09:57] <popey> it would make it easier, thats for sure
[09:58] <iGadget> one sec, brb
[09:58] <popey> we're running out of time
[09:58] <popey> I will bring all these things up on the list for further discussion
[09:58] <popey> so we can get the ideas fleshed out
[09:58] <spd106> Have we agreed on the next meeting time?
[09:59] <iGadget> okay... I for one would surely love to contribute more, but the current process is just way to much work for me, sorry :(
[10:00] <iGadget> and with contribute I mean creating screencasts, redubbing them etc.
[10:01] <iGadget> loads of time :)
[10:01] <popey> spd106: I will figure out a time and mail the list
[10:02] <popey> need to find out what time Aus is awake :)
[10:02] <popey> heh, thats what I did iGadget :)
[10:02] <iGadget> geez... so who's paying your bills now? :)
[10:02] <iGadget> canonical? :D
[10:02] <popey> heh
[10:03] <popey> I am on "holiday"
[10:03] <popey> spending time at home with the family, and when they stop bothering me, I make screencasts :)
[10:03] <iGadget> gheheh
[10:03] <iGadget> I know the feeling
[10:03] <popey> ok, so I will paste a summary of this to the wiki
[10:03] <popey> :)
[10:03] <popey> and mail the list with the subjects we have talked about
[10:04] <iGadget> great
[10:04] <popey> and update the site with a status update
[10:04] <popey> thanks for the input guys, much appreciated
[10:04] <iGadget> np, thanks for listening ;)
[10:04] <popey> next meeting likely to be oct 13th/14th
[10:04] <spd106> ok
[10:04] <iGadget> that's a weekend, good choice
[10:05] <popey> oh, good :)
[10:05] <popey> you might not say that when you see the time ;)
[10:05] <popey> 4am!
[10:05] <popey> (just kidding)
[10:05] <iGadget> ;)
[10:05] <popey> right, cheers chaps, wifey calls :)
[10:05] <iGadget> allright, cheers!
[10:06] <spd106> Thanks
[10:07] <iGadget> bedtime... bye all
[10:07] <popey> nn
[10:22] <Zero_> Hello
[10:28] <Zero_> where is the meeting ?
[10:30] <popey> @schedule
[10:30] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 25 Sep 15:00: Server Team meeting | 25 Sep 16:00: Kernel Team | 25 Sep 19:00: Technical Board | 26 Sep 20:00: Edubuntu | 27 Sep 12:00: Desktop Team Development | 27 Sep 15:00: Community Council meeting
[10:30] <popey> what meeting Zero_ ?
[10:31] <Zero_> ops
[10:31] <Zero_> it's over ^^
[10:31] <Zero_> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1098
[10:31] <popey> yeah, we just had it
[10:31] <popey> the logs are online https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ScreencastTeam/Meeting20070924
[10:32] <Zero_> tkz :)


[01:31] <jpds> ...
[01:33] <jpds> m4v: Yo.
[01:37] <m4v> yeah, I'm looking..
[01:53] <ubot4> bizkut called the ops in #ubuntu-my ()
[21:44] <AcePreshaw> ikonia
[23:50] <winXPuser> I wonder whether anything has been done about the !bootparameters factoid I wanted to add to ubottu the other day
[23:53] <MTecknology> winXPuser: did you ask ubottu to add it?
[23:54] <bazhang> factoids are not always added
[23:54] <winXPuser> I said,
[23:54] <bazhang> !bootoptions
[23:55] <winXPuser> okay
[23:55] <winXPuser> nice link, better than the one I found then :)


[00:14] <NCommander> Does anyone know the model of ia64's we have in the datacenter?
[00:32] <MFen> anyone have a script that will pull a synopsis of all the bugs in a particular milestone?  i want this to automate my release process
[00:32] <MFen> yeah yeah be quiet jml
[00:33] <jml> MFen: :D
[00:33] <jml> MFen: I'm pretty sure that the Launchpad Release team have a script like this
[00:33] <MFen> jml: i decided on a compromise.  it won't be a headless, non-interactive release process, but it will be one "step". it's just going to say "press ^C to cancel this COMMIT step" a lot
[00:34] <jml> MFen: I'm not sure if it's publicly available though. (If it isn't, it's due to not getting around to it, rather than intent)
[00:34] <jml> MFen: good idea
[00:34] <jml> MFen: you might find this interesting: http://tinyurl.com/dullperl
[00:34] <MFen> jml: i imagine i could use the api for this?
[00:34] <jml> MFen: yep. that's what we do.
[00:35] <MFen> yeah, i got a peek at it last night, looks easy.  i would pipe it into a gedit window or something.  hopefully i can set that window to "always on top" from the command line too
[00:36] <MFen> Chip?
[00:38] <MFen> jml: well the good news, i think i already do all of this (except there aren't really 6 people who se hypy yet)
[00:38] <MFen> use*
[00:39] <jml> MFen: Chip Masterson, if memory serves.
[00:45] <MFen> jml: for your list, how about a "what-did-we-do" (documented process, or a command) that figures out what you did since the last release
[00:46] <MFen> it can be as simple as something that displays all your commits grouped by bug number (which is another thing every project should have: a policy to put a bug number into every commit)
[00:46] <jml> MFen: that's a good one
[00:48] <MFen> now that i think about it, i think i got the ^C idea from radix. if memory serves, that's what he started doing with twisted
[02:18] <nekro_> I have a question about automatically closing lp bugs from bzr commits
[02:18] <nekro_> I have a branch registered with lp that the bug is linked to. During commit, I marked it as fixed (bzr commit --fixes lp:xxxxx).
[02:19] <nekro_> this should do it?
[02:19] <nekro_> the bug still appears as open
[02:22] <nekro_> I see that this is a bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/318439
[02:23] <nekro_> yep. found it. thanks!
[02:52] <MFen> hmm
[02:53] <MFen> turns out my commit messages are pretty crappy, even when grouped by bug
[10:16] <cumulus007> does Launchpad have European servers?
[10:17] <wgrant> They live in London.
[10:25] <cumulus007> wgrant: I find them really slow
[10:28] <wgrant> I think most people find it somewhat slower than is desirable. I believe that the developers are making a point of speeding it up in the next couple of releases.
[10:28] <cumulus007> okay, great :)
[10:28] <savvas> cumulus007: slow while searching for bugs?
[10:29] <cumulus007> browsing through translations, submitting them, etc.
[10:30] <savvas> ah - all I know is that bugs.launchpad.net takes a bit longer that the rest of them
[10:30] <savvas> you could download the .pot template and translate locally
[10:30] <cumulus007> It takes about 10 seconds to load this page: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+lang/nl/+index?start=50&batch=50
[10:32] <wgrant> Yowch. 9.5 seconds of actual page generation.
[10:32] <cumulus007> that's absolutely horrible, isn't it :P
[10:32] <wgrant> Translations must be hard performance-wise, given the unthinkably vast volume of data, but that's still very bad.
[10:34]  * wgrant is pleased to never have to use Translations.
[10:39] <mpt> Given a bugzilla.gnome.org bug report URL, how do I tell whether there's a bug report in Launchpad that is linked to it?
[10:41] <wgrant> mpt: Give me a moment. It's incredibly obscure.
[10:42] <mpt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/banshee?field.searchtext=http%3A%2F%2Fbugzilla.gnome.org%2Fshow_bug.cgi%3Fid%3D571177&orderby=-importance&search=Search&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.omit_
[10:42] <mpt> dupes=on&field.has_patch=&field.has_no_package= should work, but doesn't
[10:43] <mpt> (I found the bug report another way, but I'm still interested for future searching)
[10:44] <wgrant> mpt: You can put the upstream bug number in some URL under https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs, but I don't remember which and can't for the life of me find a link.
[10:44] <wgrant> You get to that page by getting to bugs.launchpad.net/, then clicking on the 'bug trackers' link in the stats.
[10:46] <wgrant> Ah.
[10:46] <mpt> (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) (i) !
[10:46] <wgrant> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/$UPSTREAM_BUG redirects to the relevant bug.
[10:46] <wgrant> But I've got no idea what happens if it is linked to multiple bugs.
[10:46] <wgrant> (i)?
[10:47] <mpt> The "Related projects" box -- it's taking the information icon in vain. :-)
[10:47] <wgrant> So it is.
[10:48] <wgrant> Those pages are unloved.
[10:48]  * wgrant was glad to see mpt commenting on some LP UI bugs recently.
[10:51] <mpt> wgrant, how did you conjure that URL?
[10:51] <wgrant> mpt: Which URL?
[10:51] <mpt> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/$UPSTREAM_BUG
[10:51] <wgrant> Oh. Guessing!
[10:51] <mpt> hm
[10:51] <wgrant> How else does one navigate to obscure parts of Launchpad?
[10:51] <mpt> thanks anyway :-)
[10:51] <wgrant> Like /+builds?
[10:52] <mpt> Now I remember we used URLs like that on bugzilla.ubuntu.com to redirect to the equivalent Launchpad bug report
[10:52] <wgrant> Ah, yes.
, runner-up in the "How many times can we use the word 'bugs' in a single URL" competition
[10:58] <wgrant> mpt: If they had been introduced in early 2006, URLs to the bugs would probably be /bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/+bug/123456.
[10:59] <mpt> (reported bug 333245)
[11:05] <mpt> wgrant, I'm pretty sure all the /+builds pages are linked to
[11:06] <wgrant> mpt: /+builds itself?
[11:06] <wgrant> Ah, a breadcrumb.
[11:09] <mpt> reported bug 333250
[11:11]  * mpt immediately runs into bug 311948
[11:12] <geser> what's special about https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/linux/+builds that I can't view it? It works for jaunty
[11:12]  * wgrant ran into that for the first time yesterday.
[11:13] <wgrant> geser: Probably because the builds were improperly unembargoed from a P3A.
[11:13] <wgrant> I smell a bug.
[11:14] <mpt> geser, please report it
[11:15] <bigjools> yay, bugs :(
[11:19] <wgrant> Poor Soyuz team.
[11:20] <bigjools> how sincere :)
[11:21] <wgrant> It isn't entirely insincere.
[11:24] <wgrant> Particularly with the lack of recent P3A complete disclosure bugs.
[11:27] <geser> mpt: filed as bug 333259
[11:27] <mpt> thanks geser
[11:28] <geser> btw: why I'm "not affected" by a bug I filed?
[11:29] <mpt> geser, that bug *is* already reported
[11:29] <wgrant> Bug #285167
[12:03] <yann2> hello :) I've got a problem using launchpad's translations - it says "This project is not configured to use Launchpad for translations.  You can change this in the project settings. " - but the item "use launchpad for translations" is actually checked
[12:03] <yann2> am I missing something?
[12:04]  * beuno pokes henninge_ and jtv
[12:06] <jtv> yann2: can you give us some links to see where?
[12:06] <yann2> https://translations.launchpad.net/digisite
[12:07] <jtv> yann2: thanks
[12:07] <yann2> is newly registered, maybe there is some caching going on :)
[12:10] <jtv> yann2: ah, yes… that means there's one thing missing: a template, as the page then continues to say.  Not very clear, I'll grant you.
[12:10] <yann2> ok :) So a template is a tar.gz of empty po files or a single po file right?
[12:11] <yann2> s/empty/untranslated
[12:18] <jtv> yann2: that's pretty close… it's a single po file, and it doesn't translate to any language so all the msgstrs are empty strings.
[12:18] <jtv> yann2: that last bit is not actually necessary though
[12:19] <jtv> yann2: so very minimally, it's a PO file with a name ending in .pot
[12:20] <yann2> ok I did that part, just it's extension was PO :) it's on a queue to be approved now - I am not sure why I cant approve it myself
[12:26] <jtv> yann2: no, we need to do that.  Just a moment, I'll check it out…
[12:28] <jtv> yann2: done.  Should be imported in a few minutes.
[12:28] <yann2> jtv > what did I do wrong? :]
[12:29] <yann2> thx for your help btw :)
[12:29] <jtv> yann2: nothing.  When a file is uploaded that the system can't automatically match to an existing template (and for a PO file, language) then it waits for a human to review it.
[12:29] <jtv> yann2: I renamed your file to end with .pot; use that in your future uploads as well.
[12:30] <yann2> so in the future if I have additional pot to upload, it will also need reviewing right
[12:34] <jtv> yann2: yes, but as long as the path/filename on this one doesn't change, its updates should go in automatically.
[12:34] <yann2> ok
[12:34] <jtv> yann2: translations as well, if they have names following the usual pattern of "it.po," "de.po," "pt_BR.po" etc.
[12:35] <jtv> yann2: also, once you do that, put your templates in different directories (and each translation in the same place as its template) so the system can always see what goes where.
[12:37] <henninge> jtv, yann2: I just wrote a nice FAQ concerning this ;)  https://answers.launchpad.net/rosetta/+faq/374
[12:38] <yann2> great, thx
[12:40] <jtv> henninge: that's great
[12:46] <yann2> ah so I had put the right extension it would have been autoapproved :)
[12:58] <jtv> yann2: notquite,  The first time we also need to check against various policies
[13:51] <yann2> jtv > I also got a colleague who is trying to subscribe and doesnt receive the confirmation email - nothing in my logs - and I just tested from gmail, it works fine...
[13:52] <jtv> yann2: subscribe to what?  Create a Launchpad account?
[13:53] <yann2> yes
[13:53] <yann2> benjamin.ducke at oadigital dot net...
[13:54] <jtv> yann2: most likely explanation is that the email got stuck in a spam filter somewhere.
[13:54] <yann2> jtv > not possible, i checked the logs...
[13:54] <yann2> it didnt even make it to my server
[13:54] <yann2> is there a way to resend the email?
[13:55] <jtv> yann2: let me ask somebody who knows about that…
[13:55] <yann2> thx
[13:55] <jtv> barry, sinzui?  ^^^
[13:55] <yann2> i can try to create some fake users to test it again... :]
[13:56] <jtv> yann2: ermmmm…  :-)
[13:57] <sinzui> yann2: There are some delivery problems cause by a bulk header in the registration/login emails. We are releasing the fix in 2 days
[13:57] <yann2> sinzui > any way to register til then, or should we just try again by the end of the week?
[13:58] <sinzui> yann2: do you have a yahoo or hotmail address? They seem to require multiple registration effort before the mail provider lets the email arrive
[13:58] <yann2> running our own server...
[13:58] <jtv> sinzui: greylisting?
[13:59] <sinzui> jtv: We suspect so. Yahoo officially stopped doing that a few years ago
[13:59] <sinzui> jtv: but after contacting the yahoo users, I see it took multiple tries for the email to arrive
[14:00] <jtv> yann2: any chance we're stuck in your greylist?
[14:00] <yann2> no graylist.. :/
[14:01]  * jtv :/'s too
[14:01] <yann2> is there any way to resend the mail?
[14:01] <sinzui> yann2: I know two users registered with a temporary address, then added their real one. After that, they can delete the temporary address.
[14:01] <yann2> so I can see again?
[14:04] <jtv> sinzui: ^^
[14:04] <sinzui> yann2: The email is gone. The database has a record that logintoken was generated for your request.
[14:06] <yann2> right. Trying a test user now then...
[14:08] <sinzui> yann2: send an email to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>from  the address you registered. I'll ask an admin to locate the logintoken in the database so that I can make the login URL you want to receive.
[14:08] <yann2> right it may be a problen on our side...
[14:08] <yann2> I tried an alias of the email and that one does work
[14:08] <yann2> gee sorry for bothering :(
[14:08] <yann2> but weird if I mail using gmail that works fine :/
[14:09]  * yann2 trying again
[14:12] <yann2> sinzui > I registerred the user with another address... benjamin dot ducke at oxfordarch dot co.uk... when I register with that one he gets the email ... and he wont get any other with the oadigital one
[14:12] <yann2> on the other hand if I send emails from yahoo and gmail to the oadigital address that works fine
[14:13] <yann2> weird :/ anyway, he's registered now :) thx for your help and sorry for bothering - will remain a mistery to me I guess
[14:15] <sinzui> yann2: This sounds like spam filtering. The email contains a linke to complete your registration and is from<EMAIL_ADDRESS>That (in combination with a precendence header) may convince a filter to block the email
[14:16] <yann2> the antispam only moves spam in a junk mail folder that is empty, and it doesnt even appear in my zimbra logs
[14:16] <Adri2000> spam at bug #161762
[14:16] <yann2> I should check the domain conf I guess
[14:16] <yann2> maybe there is something that makes it fail with launchpad and work with gmail
[14:16] <sinzui> yann2: are you trying to register on staging.launchpad.net?
[14:17] <yann2> no
[14:17] <sinzui> yann2: good. that host is a blackhole for email
[14:17] <yann2> I thought maybe it wasnt the same system :)
[14:17] <yann2> good ^^
[14:25] <mpt> In about half an hour, bug 333333 will be reported.
[14:57] <Adri2000> mpt: yep, I almost got it without knowing, but I actually got 333332 :p
[14:58] <mpt> bug 333333
[14:58] <Adri2000> mpt: can you cleanup the spam in #161762 ?
[14:59] <mpt> Ng, congratulations
[14:59] <mpt> Adri2000, no, sorry, I'm not a Launchpad admin
[14:59] <beuno> mpt, pretty accurate prediction there!
[15:00] <Adri2000> mpt: ok
[15:01] <Ng> mpt: haha, nice
[15:07] <dholbach> hiya, I was just asked about the status of https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/61341 - is there anyhing I should ask them to do?
[15:07] <beuno> joey`, ^
[15:07] <beuno> dholbach, I've been following kiko on it, but he's been especially busy
[15:08] <beuno> maybe we can team up and corner him or joey
[15:08] <dholbach> sounds like a good idea
[15:09] <dholbach> joey`: you remember the anti-social friends of mine I talked to you about?
[15:09] <dholbach> ... I'll send them to your place! :-)
[15:11] <dholbach> just kidding... but if there's anything that needs doing or there's open questions, let's get it resolved
[15:31] <joey> oh hello!
[15:31] <joey> was just sorting out nickserv issues. looking beuno
[15:31] <joey> beuno, only kiko can do that
[15:32] <beuno> joey, damn. And he's hiding somewhere in the amazon
[15:32] <joey> beuno, there are two parts to this: 1) the politics of making a distro, and 2) the physical act of making a distro  ...and kiko handle's both
[15:33] <joey> beuno, if it needs to be done urgently I can ring kiko's mobile and see if I can do it.
[15:33] <joey> would that help?
[15:34] <beuno> joey, I'd really appreciate it if we could move this along. They've got a lot of things waiting on us  :)
[15:35] <joey> beuno, ok, let me see what I can do
[15:35]  * beuno trusts joey's magic powers
[15:35] <joey> heh it's not so much special powers as a will to change the world :-)
[15:37] <beuno> look at that, we have a kiko!
[15:37] <joey> I got hold the of the kikomeister
[15:38] <beuno> kiko, https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/61341 is begging for your input  :)
[15:38] <kiko> beuno, I don't think that is a good idea.
[15:38] <dholbach> yoohoo
[15:38] <kiko> I've just been very busy this last week to formulate a proper reply
[15:38] <kiko> I can do it, of course, but maybe I shouldn't :)
[15:39] <beuno> kiko, ah, ok. Then I'll try and catch up with you this week. I've been talking to them about it, so I may as well reply.
[15:39] <kiko> beuno, why would they want to register as a distro and not a project?
[15:40] <juanje> kiko: hi, kiko, I the one who ask the question
[15:40] <juanje> kiko: we met on sydney
[15:40] <juanje> I don't know if you remember me
[15:41] <juanje> well, I'm not very sure if the better way is to be a distro, but Guadalinex, is actually a distro
[15:41] <juanje> so seems logical for me
[15:42] <juanje> but I really don't know
[15:42] <juanje> that is way we ask you guys
[15:42] <beuno> juanje, so are you guys going to file bugs against packages and such?
[15:42] <juanje> yep
[15:42] <beuno> ah, well, that's a reason there to have a distro  :)
[15:42] <kirkland> i haven't been able to access http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kirkland/screen-profiles/trunk/files/head%3A/keybindings/ for the last ~5 minutes
[15:43] <beuno> mthaddon, LH needs some lovin  ^
[15:44] <mthaddon> beuno: it's responding okay as far as nagios is concerned
[15:44] <mthaddon> beuno: sounds like it's a problem with that particular page
[15:45] <beuno> mthaddon, can you look at the hung processes mwhudson put in place?
[15:45] <kiko> juanje, I definitely remember, of course
[15:45] <MTecknology> kiko: hi
[15:45] <dholbach> kiko: I can access it now
[15:45] <mthaddon> beuno: I'm not sure what that means
[15:45] <beuno> kirkland, ah, it works now...
[15:45] <juanje> kiko: :-)
[15:45] <kiko> guys, I have a call in 15 minutes but can chat with you after that
[15:45] <beuno> mthaddon, it seems to work now
[15:46] <juanje> kiko: no problem, we'll be here awhile
[15:47] <beuno> thanks kiko
[15:47] <beuno> and joey  :)
[15:53] <kirkland> beuno: thanks
[16:24] <MTecknology> .... Someone wants to have a link so they can get donations in LP?
[16:26] <savvas> MTecknology: is that a rhetorical question? :p
[16:27] <MTecknology> SWAT: you around?
[16:27] <MTecknology> savvas: ya, pretty much
[16:42] <MTecknology> flacoste: any chance I could convince you to look at a request in Answers?
[16:43] <flacoste> MTecknology: sure
[16:43] <MTecknology> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/61831
[16:43] <flacoste> i'll review all open answers after my lunch
[16:43] <MTecknology> ok
[16:43] <MTecknology> Looks like you guys got a few over the weekend :P
[16:43] <flacoste> MTecknology: i'll forward to the proper people with power :-)
[16:44] <flacoste> yeah
[16:44] <flacoste> :-/
[16:44] <MTecknology> flacoste: thanks. I was waiting, but I can't send out an email until it's done :)
[16:45] <flacoste> MTecknology: ok
[16:46] <MTecknology> have a good and tasty lunch
[16:51] <Laibsch> Can anybody help me understand why the Debian task in bug 236041 is still open?  This bug is fixed both in Ubuntu and Debian.  The Debian BTS has the correct status, but LP somehow did not pick it up.
[16:52] <MTecknology> Laibsch: that says it's closed
[16:52] <MTecknology> "Fix Released"
[16:52] <Laibsch> Please open the link
[16:53] <Laibsch> I'm talking about the Debian task
[16:53] <Laibsch> not the Ubuntu task
[16:53] <MTecknology> that's because it's assigned to an external tracker
[16:53] <Laibsch> Oh man
[16:53] <MTecknology> they need to update it themselves - http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=483381
[16:53] <Laibsch> That bug was closed ages ago
[16:54] <Laibsch> LP did not pick it up
[16:54] <Laibsch> I'm wondering why
[16:54] <Laibsch> It's definitely wrong
[16:55] <MTecknology> Laibsch: It's not supposed to magically pick it up the last I knew. I fixed it for ya though ;)
[16:56] <Laibsch> MAN!!!!
[16:56] <Laibsch> what the heck?
[16:56] <Laibsch> I could have done that myself
[16:56] <Laibsch> That's not what I came here for
[16:56] <Laibsch> It *IS* of course supposed to pick it up on its own.
[16:56] <beuno> it is suppose to magicaly pick it up
[16:56] <charlie-tca> MTecknology: launchpad no longer picks up the status on the bug watches?
[16:56] <beuno> I'm sure gmb knows why it didn't
[16:57] <Laibsch> beuno: Thanks
[16:57] <Laibsch> ping gmb
[16:58] <MTecknology> beuno: sorry, I always thought it worked differently
[16:58] <Laibsch> although MTecknology got a bit overenthusiastic and closed the debian task on  bug 236041, the question remains why LP did not correctly reflect the status on its own
[16:58] <hggdh> yes, I should have closed it automagically
[16:58] <hggdh> s/I/it/
[16:58] <Laibsch> hggdh: You?  personally?
[16:58] <Laibsch> ;-)
[16:59] <hggdh> sorry (again)
[16:59] <Laibsch> Hehe ;-)
[16:59] <gmb> Laibsch: Hi. Let me just catch up a bit here...
[16:59] <Laibsch> sure
[16:59] <Laibsch> thanks for picking this up, gmb
[16:59] <gmb> np
[17:00] <gmb> Laibsch: Ah. that bug watch hasn't been updated since December due to bug 300634.
[17:00] <Laibsch> Ah, thanks
[17:01] <gmb> Laibsch: Our bug watch updating script is currently on the fritz; I'm hoping to be able to fix that in the next Launchpad cycle (i.e. some time in March) time permitting.
[17:01] <Laibsch> At least I know it's already on the radar
[17:01] <gmb> Sure.
[17:01] <Laibsch> thanks for your work
[17:03] <gmb> np
[17:26] <Ursinha> hi henninge :) are you there?
[17:27] <henninge> I am. Hi Ursinha!
[17:27] <Ursinha> hey henninge :D
[17:27] <henninge> ;)
[17:27] <Ursinha> henninge, I have a small doubt
[17:28] <henninge> Ursinha: what, about me being here ? ;)
[17:28] <Ursinha> in brazilian translations (guess in all languages :P) we have some packages that have packaged strings and suggested strings
[17:28] <Ursinha> henninge, haha :) let me find one example
[17:29] <bdmurray> What is the status of the staging database?
[17:32] <Ursinha> henninge, here: https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/+source/xulrunner-1.9/+pots/xulrunner/pt_BR/+translate?show=new_suggestions
[17:33] <henninge> Ursinha: I see it, what about it? ;)
[17:33] <Ursinha> henninge, it has "Current Brazilian Portuguese:" and "Packaged:"
[17:33] <Ursinha> henninge, what's the difference about them?
[17:33] <henninge> Ursinha: Oh, ok.
[17:34] <Ursinha> the difference between, I meant :)
[17:34] <henninge> Ursinha: "Packaged" is what has been uploaded from elsewhere, so which came "in the package."
[17:35] <Ursinha> hmm.
[17:35] <Ursinha> but the one that will be on the lang pack is the Current one, right?
[17:35] <henninge> Ursinha: The "current" translation is how the translation has been changed in Launchpad through the web interface.
[17:35] <mthaddon> bdmurray: in what sense?
[17:35] <henninge> Ursinha: yes, "packaged" has nothing to do with language packs.
[17:35] <bdmurray> mthaddon: there are no useful tables in the database
[17:35] <henninge> I've seen that confusion before ...
[17:36] <henninge> Ursinha: It is about the source of the translation, not its destination. ;)
[17:36] <Ursinha> henninge, I'll ask mrevell if it's in a wiki somewhere :)
[17:36] <mthaddon> bdmurray: not sure I understand - it's a copy of the production DB from a certain date, but not yesterday
[17:37] <henninge> Ursinha: He'll probably ask me. :-P
[17:37] <Ursinha> henninge, lol
[17:37] <Ursinha> henninge, so if a package has only the packaged one, it was imported from upstream, probably?
[17:38] <bdmurray> mthaddon: if lpmain_staging is the right db name I don't see the bug table in it
[17:38] <mrevell> yeah, I'm not sure about this one, I'm afraid
[17:38] <Ursinha> henninge, maybe it's worthy changing that Packaged string
[17:38] <henninge> Ursinha: It is only named "Packaged", if it differs from "Current", otherwise it is named "Current".
[17:39] <mthaddon> bdmurray: ah, no, that's got nothing - the db it's using is launchpad_staging_norepl but I guess you have no access to that
[17:39] <henninge> Ursinha: "packaged" always means it comes from upstream.
[17:39] <Ursinha> henninge, right right :)
[17:39] <henninge> Ursinha: We'll be having our UI sprint next week and I guess we'll look at some of these issues.
[17:39] <Ursinha> henninge, awesome
[17:40] <Ursinha> :)
[17:41] <Ursinha> thanks a lot henninge
[17:41] <henninge> Ursinha: you are welcome!
[17:41] <bdmurray> mthaddon: could I get access?
[17:41] <henninge> :)
[18:10] <hanska> Hello people
[18:10] <hanska> is there any plan to support Git on Launchpad?
[18:11] <beuno> hanska, yes, git imports
[18:11] <hanska> beuno: seriously. :)
[18:11] <beuno> but not git uploads and such
[18:11] <beuno> yes, importing git into bzr
[18:11] <hanska> beuno: I mean, "native" git.
[18:11] <beuno> oh, no
[18:11] <beuno> it's hard enough supporting 1 DVCS  :)
[18:12] <hanska> beuno: well, git is rather popular -- and it could attract more people to launchpad than you would believe :)
[18:12] <hanska> beuno: btw, any place where I could file an official request?
[18:13] <beuno> hanska, it's been filed a dozen times
[18:13] <beuno> but it's just not that simple
[18:13] <beuno> so you could file another bug, but it will be shot down again
[18:13] <beuno> there are many things that we can do to atract more users, we just have to pick our battles  ;)
[18:14] <hanska> beuno: I won't file another bug, just wanted to hear something better than "it's not simple" :P
[18:14] <hanska> beuno: but, well, thank you for replying
[18:15] <beuno> hanska, well, it's very complicated to support 1 DVCS, supporting multiple is just way over the resources we have
[18:15] <hanska> beuno: <flame mode="off">we in Debian do it *g*</flame>
[18:15] <beuno> oh, no you don't!
[18:15] <beuno> you support pushing/pulling
[18:16] <beuno> Launchpad supports like a billion things more than that
[18:16] <beuno> so it's not about providing storage
[18:16] <beuno> it's about providing workflows, and added value
[18:16] <NCommander> anyone know if/when the second sparc buildd coming back?
[18:17] <hanska> beuno: you mean the launchpad integration?
[18:17] <beuno> hanska, yes, to all the other features in Launchpad
[18:19] <hanska> beuno: unfortunately, no one is able to provide a patch for LP to support git. :/
[18:20] <hanska> s/is/can be/
[18:20] <beuno> hanska, it's not just a matter of a patch
[18:20] <beuno> which, is more like a few dozen branches
[18:20] <beuno> it's a matter of all the support needed from syadmins, and maintance, etc
[18:21] <beuno> while Launchpad will be open in July, just providing a patch doesn't mean the work is done
[18:21] <hanska> beuno: sure, but maintainance can also be community-driven, no?
[18:21] <beuno> there is a big cost of maintaining it, developing new features, disk space, fixing bugs, etc
[18:21] <beuno> I don't think it can be community driven, as you need access to Launchpad database, tracebacks, etc
[18:23] <beuno> so it's something the core team has to be able to maintain, and resources made available
[18:23] <beuno> it's way beyond non-trivial
[18:23] <hanska> beuno: I trust you ;)
[18:23] <beuno> as I said before, just supporting 1 DVCS is proving to be very hard
[18:24] <hanska> beuno: well, then we'll keep git on alioth. We'll just miss the SCM<>BTS integration :/
[18:24] <hanska> ("we" being the bash-completion team)
[18:24] <beuno> hanska, there will be git imports, so you will be able to use the branches in LP
[18:25] <hanska> beuno: yes, that needs some "manual" activity though
[18:25] <beuno> no, we have continuos imports
[18:25] <beuno> we already have them for svn and cvs
[18:25] <hanska> ah, that's good then
[18:26] <beuno> :)
[18:26] <beuno> we *do* want to please people, we just have a certain amount of resources
[18:26] <hanska> beuno: sure, I didn't expect LP people to be users' slaves ;) (I'm a dev too, and know what it means)
[18:27] <rickspencer3> hey guys
[18:27] <hanska> beuno: is there a chance to try it on LP's sandbox (can't remember its name, sorry)?
[18:27] <beuno> hanska, well, we try to be  ;)
[18:27] <beuno> hanska, sure, https://staging.launchpad.net/
[18:27] <beuno> hiya rickspencer3
[18:27] <rickspencer3> does anyone know why my bug_task obejcts (using the launchpad pythoo api), lack milestone_link attributes?
[18:27] <beuno> sinzui will know
[18:28] <beuno> he knows *everything*
[18:28] <rickspencer3> good friend to have ;)
[18:28] <rickspencer3> It seems that this code didn't work a few weeks ago, then started working, not doesn't work again :(
[18:28] <rickspencer3> I wonder if the server is changing?
[18:29] <beuno> rickspencer3, is that against edge?
[18:29] <rickspencer3> beuno: we missed you at the sprint btw
[18:29] <sinzui> rickspencer3: I recall that they work a little differently than many people expect
[18:29] <beuno> we rolled back a few revisions due to load issues
[18:29] <rickspencer3> aah
[18:29] <rickspencer3> I think all the python api calls are against edge
[18:29] <beuno> rickspencer3, oh, I felt really bad not being able to go as well...
[18:30] <beuno> ok, so just give it a day or two for edge to be fixed, and everything should work
[18:30] <beuno> the roll back also took away my precious ajax  :(
[18:30] <hanska> beuno: last question (writing a report to the mailing list ;)
[18:30] <hanska> beuno: is it possible to mangle the bugstatus from commit messages?
[18:31] <hanska> like "Added patch for foo (LP: #12345)", or kinda?
[18:32] <beuno> hanska, marking bugs as fixed from commit messages is in the pipeline
[18:32] <sinzui> rickspencer3: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/333173
[18:32] <beuno> hanska, not sure when it's set to land, but it's somewhere on the roadmap before July as well
[18:32] <hanska> beuno: ok, great, thank you.
[18:32] <beuno> feel free to come back in a month and complain that it's not there
[18:32] <beuno> we can find a developer and make him feel bad about it
[18:33] <rickspencer3> sinzui: thanks. It seems like it started working about a week ago or so (looking through my code diffs)
[18:34] <hanska> beuno: thank you again
[18:34] <rickspencer3> was I dreaming that?
[18:34] <beuno> hanska, happy to help. Let me know if there's anything else we can do to unblock you guys
[18:35] <sinzui> rickspencer3: It did. but edge was reverted and the feature was lost. We will update edge to modern code in the next 24 hours
[18:35] <rickspencer3> ah
[18:35] <rickspencer3> thanks all
[18:35] <rickspencer3> you guys are awesome
[18:56] <SWAT> MTecknology: yes
[19:02] <yml> Does someone has an idea of a long it take to get approval to import a SVN branch to a project ?
[19:03] <yml> I am trying to import a couple of them and it seems this process is not starting.
[19:04] <yml> I am starting to believe that I have missed something important
[19:08] <kiko-afk> yml, it's usually pretty fast. did you ask a question?
[19:08] <kiko-afk> I mean Question
[19:09] <yml> I have submitted them like 2 days ago
[19:11] <yml> kiko-afk: by Question you mean on launchpad to this kind of url : https://answers.launchpad.net/
[19:15] <flacoste> yml: what repository are you importing?
[19:15] <yml> python-calais
[19:16] <yml> it is hosted on code.google.com
[19:16] <yml> flacoste: I a similar problem with django-filebrowser
[19:16] <yml> and django-supertagging
[19:16] <flacoste> yml: we have known problems with google code import
[19:17] <flacoste> yml: something they work, sometime they don't
[19:17] <flacoste> yml: they are known from dropping connections for no reason
[19:17] <flacoste> small trees usually import fine
[19:17] <yml> flacoste: the tree is very small
[19:18] <flacoste> how many revisions?
[19:18] <yml> python-calais is 2 files
[19:18] <yml> and 17 revisions
[19:19] <flacoste> hmm
[19:19] <flacoste> that should be importable
[19:19] <yml> https://code.launchpad.net/python-calais
[19:20] <yml> So I am wondering if I have done the declaration like I should have done it
[19:22] <rockstar> yml, I just reviewed your import.  Sorry it took so long, I've been traveling a lot recently.
[19:24] <yml> rockstar: np, I don't want to complain
[19:24] <yml> I am just wondering if I need to do something else to get them approved ?
[19:26] <mneptok> flacoste: salgado et jamesh sont ici!
[19:26] <flacoste> mneptok: yep, they are, and there will a lot more people next week
[19:27] <mneptok> flacoste: good timing. ;)
[19:27] <yml> rockstar: is it also alright for : django-filebrowser and django-supertagging ?
[19:28] <rockstar> yml, I'm going through all the pending imports currently.  If there's something wrong with them, I'll note it on the whiteboard.
[19:29] <yml> rockstar: where can I read the whiteboard ?
[19:30] <rockstar> yml, on the branch page, there's a section that says "Whiteboard"  You'll also get an email about it.
[19:46] <maxb> flacoste: Is someone aware of sejong being broken?
[19:47] <flacoste> maxb: it was this morning, but it seems to be up again?
[19:47] <maxb>  	 Exception (<Fault 8002: 'error'>) when setting up to new job
[19:47] <maxb> says https://launchpad.net/+builds
[19:48] <flacoste> maxb: this is something else, let me find a soyuz person
[19:51] <bigjools> we're resetting it now
[19:57] <MFen> does the launchpad api have anything for step 7 on this page: http://wiki.goonmill.org/HowtoReleaseHypy
[19:57] <MFen> step 7 is "copy the binary packages in my ppa from intrepid to hardy"
[19:59] <flacoste> MFen: i think so, bigjools can you confirm?
[19:59] <flacoste> i could also check the API doc...
[20:00] <bigjools> see syncSource in the API
[20:00] <cprov> maxb: sejong is broken, I will request IS to reset it.
[20:00] <bigjools> it's a method on Archive
[20:01] <flacoste> MFen: https://staging.launchpad.net/+apidoc/#archive-syncSource
[20:01] <bigjools> there ya go :)
[20:02] <maxb> cprov: Thanks! Whilst you're around, I wonder if I could ask something else? Do you suppose you could have a look at bug 311952 and determine whether it's already too late for getting it done in the Jaunty timeframe, or whether it might be made to happen?
[20:03] <bigjools> maxb: as it happens I am on the phone to cprov right now and we just talked about that
[20:04] <bigjools> we'll take a look at it in the next month
[20:13] <mrooney> I guess I should be using explicitly versioned PPAs, if I have something like package-0.1~ppa1, will package-0.1~intrepid~ppa1 count as newer?
[20:14] <maxb> No, because i for intrepid comes before p for ppa
[20:15] <mrooney> maxb: ah ok, so is there a clean way to do it now, or I just have to wait until the next actual version number of the app to transition?
[20:16] <maxb> Well, what's the actual current version?
[20:16] <mrooney> Yeah, let me explain the problem :)
[20:16] <mrooney> So I uploaded wxbanker - <IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1~ppa1 to Intrepid
[20:17] <mrooney> and then I thought, okay I'll just change the upload target to Jaunty and upload it again
[20:17] <mrooney> but I got "File wxbanker_<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1~ppa1.diff.gz already exists" and it was rejected
[20:17] <mrooney> so I just made that ~ppa2 to work around it and put that in Jaunty
[20:18] <maxb> right, so basically there's two schools of thought on ppa versions and multiple distroseries, corresponding to two workflows.
[20:19] <maxb> Either you manage a single stream of versions of your package, and each time you upload, you then backport it to each relevant previous distroseries
[20:20] <maxb> Or, you maintain the packaging for each distroseries separately and essentially independently
[20:21] <maxb> And depending on which one you choose, it has different implications for how your version numbers should look
[20:21] <maxb> There's also the third option: just build for the oldest distroseries, and copy the binaries into later distroseries, assuming that they will probably work
[20:22] <maxb> Forwards compatibility is usually OK, unless there's been a library transition being dependencies can no longer be satisfied.
[20:28] <mrooney> maxb: yeah that third option crossed my mind, I wasn't sure if that is typically sane
[20:28] <mrooney> I originally tried going the other way, that was bad news haha
[20:28] <mrooney> (copying jaunty -> intrepid)
[20:30] <wgrant> mrooney: It's generally fine to copy forwards. That's how Ubuntu works.
[20:30] <wgrant> Or our buildds wouldn't be very happy.
[20:30] <wgrant> And you'll know if it isn't fine; it won't install.
[20:31] <mrooney> wgrant: okay thanks, I think I will adopt that workflow in the future then!
[20:32] <mrooney> wgrant: also I think I had a dream about having a separate packaging branch if you can believe it
[20:32] <mrooney> and maintenance was easier, so I'll probably adopt that too
[20:33] <wgrant> mrooney: Heh, we have 183 packages binary-copied all the way from Warty.
[20:34] <mrooney> impressive!
[20:34] <wgrant> And 4000 from Hardy.
[20:34] <wgrant> So it works quite well.
[20:34] <mrooney> okay then I definitely won't worry about copying one from Intrepid -> Jaunty :)
[20:34] <wgrant> Right, half the archive is copied from Intrepid.
[20:35] <maxb> Of course the downside is if something's been persistently FTBFSing, you can have ancient binaries which can't be rebuilt and are not paired with their source
[20:35] <maxb> e.g. cmucl
[20:35] <wgrant> Oh yes.
[20:35] <wgrant> I hate Lisp to death.
[20:35] <wgrant> gcl must die.
[20:35] <wgrant> Well, it is pretty dead all ready.
[20:35] <wgrant> We cannot build it.
[20:35] <wgrant> But it works in Debian.
[20:36] <maxb> cmucl has the hilarious feature of build-dep-ing on itself
[20:36] <wgrant> Lots of things do.
[20:36] <wgrant> Which sort of makes sense, but also makes things damn difficult.
[20:36] <maxb> But usually not with an (= the same version) !
[20:36] <wgrant> Some things can only build automatically with the same minor version of themselves.
[20:38]  * wgrant -> work
[21:15] <MFen> flacoste and bigjools: that's great!  thanks for looking for that for me.. that's going to my next automation goal.  i notice that it's called sync*source* .. i need to be able to copy identically-versioned binary packages (and only binary packages.. i get an error copying source packages through the web interface).  will that be a problem for me?
[21:16] <MFen> btw, i totally was not expecting this to be in the API.  you guys are pretty thorough. :)
[21:16] <flacoste> MFen: heu... i'm not familiar with the details of that
[21:16] <flacoste> MFen: let me dig a little
[21:17] <MFen> i don't really *mind* if it copies the source package too, as long as it doesn't change versions or something
[21:33] <gouki> I reactivated a mailing list used by a team, however, I'm not subscribed. How can I subscribe without leaving/joining the team?
[21:34] <gouki> My bad!! :S
[21:35] <gouki> A big 'Subscribe' button was right in front of me.
[21:48] <flacoste> MFen: i think you simply use include_binaries=True
[21:51] <MFen> flacoste: ok, the option i was looking for would have sounded like "exclude_sources=True" but i'll take your word for it for now
[21:55] <flacoste> MFen: do try it out on staging first though ;-)
[21:56] <MFen> k
[21:57] <MFen> uh, do i have a staging PPA?
[22:06] <mrooney> MFen: you do if you have a PPA whenever staging is re-done, I imagine
[22:06] <MFen> ok
[22:06] <mrooney> just keep in mind of course that it is reset daily I think
[22:11] <flacoste> MFen: i'm not sure there is a publishing run for staging, there might, or not, but the API call will work over there
[22:11] <MFen> well, i don't know if that's a useful test
[22:12] <MFen> flacoste: i upload my source package (for intrepid), it builds, then i copy binaries from intrepid to hardy. if, instead, i copy sources from intrepid to hardy, i get an error when i'm using the web UI
[22:12] <MFen> if i can't actually upload packages to staging i don't know whether that error would occur, so i can't validate my assumptions about how syncSource works
[22:13] <flacoste> MFen: copying only sources will attempt a rebuild which will fail because of the existing binaries in the pool
[22:13] <flacoste> MFen: if you copy the binaries along the source, everything will be fine since nothing is rebuld, it just "publish" the existing binaries in the target
[22:14] <MFen> oh. ok.
[22:15] <MFen> flacoste:  that's not what the error says though.  it says i must upload a new version.
[22:15] <MFen> flacoste: in any case, i get the error regardless of whether i have also copied binaries
[22:15] <flacoste> MFen: when you call the API? or on the web?
[22:15] <MFen> on the web
[22:16] <flacoste> MFen: hmm, then I'm not sure, cprov might be able to answer that
[22:17] <MFen> well, i know about this behavior.  it's confusing, but it's at least something i'm familiar with, whereas the api is not (and appears to be subtly different)
[22:17] <MFen> i'll just try it out on main, i don't think anything terrible will happen
[22:25] <mtaylor> ola everyone... I've got a guy who is having problems branching lp:~mordred/drizzle/tbb-atomics - but who can branch lp:drizzle just fine... is there any reason this might be the case?
[22:26] <james_w> mtaylor: errors about an unkown format?
[22:27] <mtaylor> james_w: actually: <lbieber> mtaylor: right, but it doesn't seem to like my password, keeps asking me for the passwd.  Works ok if I try to pull lp:drizzle
[22:29] <mtaylor> james_w: he tried branching from http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mordred/drizzle/tbb-atomics ... and that just hung
[22:30] <james_w> that branch is stacked, that may have something to do with it
[22:30] <postalchris> What is a "Dependency Wait" in a PPA?
[22:31] <mtaylor> hm
[22:31] <james_w> mtaylor: I can apparently branch it, so it doesn't affect everybody
[22:32] <james_w> mtaylor: can you get them to pastebin a stanza of ~/.bzr.log from one of their attempts?
[22:32] <james_w> mtaylor: also, what "bzr --version" do they have?
[22:32] <mtaylor> james_w: finding out
[22:33] <mtaylor> james_w: 1.9
[22:33] <mtaylor> james_w: I'll see if I can get a pastebin...
[22:33] <james_w> thanks
[22:34] <mwhudson> branch looks pretty normal to me
[22:34] <mwhudson> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mordred/drizzle/tbb-atomics/.bzr/branch/branch.conf has
[22:34] <mwhudson> stacked_on_location = /~drizzle-developers/drizzle/development
[22:34] <mwhudson> which seems fine
[22:43] <mtaylor> james_w: http://paste.ubuntu.com/122077/
[22:43] <mtaylor> james_w: that's from when he's getting prompted for password
[22:44] <james_w> and he enters it, then it dies?
[22:44] <james_w>     self._setup_stacking()
[22:44] <james_w>   File "/Library/Python/2.5/site-packages/bzrlib/remote.py", line 1349, in _setup_stacking
[22:44] <james_w>     fallback_bzrdir = BzrDir.open(fallback_url, transports)
[22:45] <james_w> and then "response = self._call('BzrDir.open', path)"
[22:46] <MTecknology> spm: ping
[22:46] <james_w> I'm not sure what's going on there, it all looks sane to me
[22:46] <spm> MTecknology: heyo
[22:46] <mtaylor> james_w: no, he enters it, and it asks him for it again
[22:46] <mtaylor> I'm not sure what's going on either
[22:47] <james_w> asks repeatedly, or dies after the second time?
[22:47] <mtaylor> not sure
[22:47] <james_w> or does he kill it?
[22:47] <MTecknology> spm: Instead of dropping ubuntu-drupal-modules you deactivated it
[22:47] <mtaylor> james_w, lbieber. lbieber, james_w
[22:47] <james_w> hey lbieber
[22:48] <lbieber> james_w: yes
[22:48] <spm> MTecknology: the project? yes that's correct.
[22:48] <mtaylor> lbieber: james_w  was just asking if it asks for your password repeatedly, or dies after the second time?
[22:48] <MTecknology> spm: the team*
[22:48] <james_w> lbieber: your trace indicates that the remote end hangs up, is that when you give up on entering the password?
[22:49] <lbieber> james_w: it asks repeatedly, for that sample, I quit after the first time that I entered the password, do you want to see a log of me repeatedly trying?
[22:49] <james_w> lbieber: no, that's fine
[22:49] <MTecknology> spm: heh... I see what's going on
[22:49] <spm> MTecknology: hmm. looks like I missed that team. Bugger! ta!
[22:49] <james_w> lbieber: I'm interested in what exactly is prompting for your password though
[22:50] <james_w> lbieber: you presumably have an SSH key registered in launchpad, is that correct?
[22:50] <lbieber> james_w:  yes
[22:51] <MTecknology> spm: why did you transfer ~ubuntu-drupal-modules ownership to Registry?
[22:51] <MTecknology> That confused me
[22:51] <james_w> lbieber: and "bzr launchpad-login" prints the correct id?
[22:51] <mwhudson> there was certainly a bug in some versions of bzr where opening a stacked branch over bzr+ssh would open two ssh connections
[22:52] <MTecknology> spm: I was just trying to get rid of everything so I could recreated it and have it all nice and clean.
[22:52] <mwhudson> so asking for the password twice, i could understand
[22:52] <mwhudson> many times, not so much
[22:52] <james_w> mwhudson: it does sound like that
[22:52] <spm> MTecknology: technically? that's how team removals are handled. basically they get merged into the registry team. I can only assume something wasn't done right. probably pebkac :-)
[22:53] <lbieber> james_w: yes "bzr launchpad-login" prints the correct id
[22:53] <MTecknology> spm: oh... could you transfer ownership back to that other team then?
[22:53] <james_w> lbieber: ok, so why it is refusing the login for the second branch is beyond me, sorry.
[22:54] <lbieber> james_w: I can pull from lp:drizzle with no problems
[22:54] <spm> MTecknology: um. not anymore. I just merged it into oblivion. sorry...
[22:54] <MTecknology> ok
[22:54] <MTecknology> spm: thanks :D
[22:54] <james_w> lbieber: yeah, that's not stacked on anything, so it only needs to retrieve the first branch, not a second as well.
[22:55] <mwhudson> lbieber: can you try again with -Dhpss and pastebin the whole section of the .bzr.log ?
[22:56] <james_w> lbieber: entering your password three times would be useful if you can stand it :-)
[22:58] <mwhudson> indeed
[22:58] <mwhudson> also note that upgrading your bzr will likely help a lot too
[22:58] <lbieber> mwhudson: Ahhh, 4 times was the magic number :) , it is pulling now
[22:58] <mtaylor> hahaha
[22:59] <mwhudson> 4?!?!
[22:59] <mwhudson> cause that makes a lot of sense
[22:59] <mwhudson> lbieber: i'd still like to see the .bzr.log if poss
[23:00] <lbieber> mwhudson:   yes, after the 4th time it started pulling the branch, although it hasn't completed yet,
[23:00] <mwhudson> ah right
[23:00] <mwhudson> the pulling part probably isn't very interesting, but complete is easier
[23:04] <lbieber> mwhudson: doesn't look like anything to interesting in the log - http://paste.ubuntu.com/122084/
[23:05] <mwhudson> lbieber: indeed, i can see why you'd be asked twice
[23:05] <mwhudson> not 4 times though
[23:32] <wgrant> mwhudson: Does LP generate merge proposal diffs for me yet, or do I have to upload them myself through the API?
[23:36] <lbieber> mwhudson: interesting, just finished pulling sources, but got two more prompts before everything completed!
[23:41] <lifeless> is there a feed of changes to lp project descriptions ?
[23:44] <mwhudson> lbieber: confused
[23:44] <mwhudson> wgrant: not yet, it will after the release on thursday though
[23:44] <mwhudson> lbieber: still, this problem should go away when you upgrade bzr
[23:45] <wgrant> mwhudson: Oh, excellent!
[23:45] <lbieber> mwhudson:  thanks, will upgrade for next time
[23:57] <MTecknology> spm: Could you also drop the ubuntu-drupal-themes project?
[23:57] <cprov> MFen: hi, are you facing problems with the copy UI/API ?
[23:58] <spm> MTecknology: ? it's inactive already
[23:59] <MTecknology> spm: I need it, I just wanted to start clean with it :)
[23:59] <spm> Oh right - oki, I'll rename it away for you. one sec.


I don't suppose you'll be in my area or Akron area any time soon?


[00:01] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I do not think it should be included
[00:02] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Glad for the confirmation .
[00:06] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Got a good start on making up the summaries :) A lot to do tomorrow . Can not forecast when I will be able to complete them - or how they will read .
[00:09] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, it is good that you have got a jump on writing them and hopefully you will have some help, have you been sending out the summary writers email or just relying on yourself and guiverc ?
[00:10] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: I gave up on the Email for additional help .. guiverc has been doing the brunt of the summaries .
[00:11] <guiverc> I was wondering if my stepping in should be late .. so if some you've attempted-to-join-us looks at doc, the can see something to do, instead of a full doc..  there is always the risk that I'll not be able to (sunday), either i forget, pain etc ..
[00:12] <guiverc> (attempted to join us - ie. those you've tried to recruit; been talked about last couple of days ...)
[00:13] <Wild_Man> guiverc, it does not look like anyone else that I have recruited is going to help unfortunately
[00:15] <guiverc> happens - i never got anywhere in anything i tried; but tried to email those that did something on occasion just to try & keep the few (2-3) that did...
[00:15] <guiverc> (anything i tried - meaning recruiting a couple of years? ago)
[00:16] <Wild_Man> I am happy to email the ones on the list
[00:17] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: guiverc Would be mice if we got any type of feed back - anyone checking to see if we ever get anything ?
[00:18] <guiverc> the email I meant was a 'touching base - update'  or goodwill email ...  as at the time episodes weren't going out exactly weekly...
[00:18] <Wild_Man> There has been no replies for quite a while
[00:19] <guiverc> i would treat that as normal Wild_Man - the most common i got was 'sorry no time, please remove me..'
[00:19] <Wild_Man> guiverc, I did that in the when we first started the letter back up
[00:24] <guiverc> Bashing-om, i agree re: feedback - checking where?
[00:25] <Bashing-om> guiverc: There is a non-used means: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Ideas . I have yet to see a submission . Do people not read our newsletter ?
[00:26] <Wild_Man> guiverc, we email them from then team M/L so if they reply they should reply to this list now but no one has replied or Krytarik and myself would have seen them
[00:27] <guiverc> we get a few hits - but that means ???  (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue539?action=info&hitcounts=1)
[00:27] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I do not think we have many readers anymore but there is no way to no for sure but if I remember correct there is like 7000 people that receive it in there emaail
[00:28] <guiverc> as we reached #500; some effort was put in (esp. lyz & paul) to get feedback, and yeah, it was underwhelming then too
[00:28] <Bashing-om> I say again. The load is taxing for just 2 people to prepare the newsletter. I do not know how long I can maintain, as I have fall chores that must get done for Winter preperation .
[00:30] <Wild_Man> If anyone knows anyone that can help please ask them and if you know another way to reach helpers I am open to suggestions
[00:30] <pleia2> there are more readers than you think ;) when the newsletter disappears, they come out of the woodwork to speak up
[00:30] <Wild_Man> that is good to know
[00:30] <pleia2> but it is near impossible to find contributors, which is why things quieted down for months
[00:31] <Wild_Man> I recruited four or five people but none of them helped so that went no where but I will keep trying
[00:31] <pleia2> I made it *super* simple with a very simple survey to people who said they wanted to contribute, I think I got one reply
[00:32] <pleia2> but yeah, I think for every 10 that say they'll help, 1 does
[00:32] <Wild_Man> where did you post that and do you have a copy of it?
[00:32] <Wild_Man> That sounds about right
[00:32] <pleia2> it was a private email to all the contributors like 4 years ago, the form is long since deleted
[00:32] <Wild_Man> okay
[00:33] <pleia2> I was trying to see what we could do to make it easier to contribute, if there was some reason people weren't when they said they were interested
[00:33] <Bashing-om> pleia2: What gets me - presently - What do we do that anyone with an RSS reader can not do better ?
[00:33] <pleia2> Bashing-om: people like getting hand-picked articles once a week, reading everything as it comes in all week long is a bit overwhelming
[00:34] <pleia2> I'm not saying you have to keep working on UWN, I gave up too when it got to be too much work for me
[00:34] <Wild_Man> I am not sure what we can do since we had to lock down goole docs but I think with recruiting our main focus needs to be on summary writers
[00:34] <Bashing-om> pleia2: :) great point . I rest on your knowledge and skills :)
[00:35] <guiverc> I agree with pleia2 Bashing-om - re: weekly roundup versus liferea ... liferea is my choice; but I like the concise grouping too (for when I'm out of time, get behind on feeds to catch up on missed, those with less time I assume rely on weekly news more)
[00:37] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: I have got the procedure to publish my part down to where I can do it in a couple of hours - if the summaries are completed.
[00:37] <Wild_Man> pleia2, is there a way to write it up and streamline the process onto an RSS feed or digital format of some type?
[00:38] <pleia2> not really, but if you just want to feed people articles, you could stop writing summaries
[00:38] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, publishing is what I am best at and that is what I said I could do when I volunteered so that way I can do my part
[00:39] <Wild_Man> that does not sound good, what do you think?
[00:39] <Bashing-om> pleia2: guiverc raised the point to write the summary in such a way that the reader is prompted to read the article.
[00:40] <pleia2> I didn't think the newsletter was worth it without the summaries, but it's in your hands now to decide these things, especially when the other option is "no newsletter at all"
[00:40] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: I have done the xfer from Gdocs to wiki a few times .. and I am now fairly comfortable doing so .
[00:41] <Wild_Man> we will discuss it I guess when Krytarik gets back
[00:42] <Bashing-om> pleia2: Wild_Man The format that pleia2 has set up and developed over a long period of time is a good one ! .. We just need the help to write !
[00:43] <Wild_Man> Bashing-om, I agree, also times change and sometimes we have to adapt to stay in the game, not saying that we are there though
[00:45] <Bashing-om> Wild_Man: Agrreed .. we will soon have to include personal devices in a section .. and give more exposure to the cloud . The day of the desktop system is passing .
[00:53] <guiverc> there was a 'ubuntu phone' section as i recall; it was removed ...  (re: devices section)
[00:56] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yeah, I too recall the 'phone' section. The point is that we must be open to change .. and adjust our presentation accordingly .
[00:57] <guiverc> :)
[00:59] <Bashing-om> In the meantime --- see if I can knock out another summary :) Got nothing the more pressing to get done at this time :P
[14:56] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: Canonical Releases New Linux Kernel Live Patch for Ubuntu 18.04 LTS & 16.04 LTS @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/canonical-releases-new-linux-kernel-live-patch-for-ubuntu-18-04-lts-16-04-lts-522324.shtml (by Marius Nestor)
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[02:42] <studio-user222> New to IRC in general so if I've got this way wrong, apologies. How would you go about getting a theatre production section included into the next update of UbuntuStudio? There are some worthy candidates: Linux Show Player, QLC+, and Praxis Live
[12:43] <studio-user527> Guten tag brauche hilfe keine verbindung  kann ich nicht einrichten
[12:45] <studio-user527> Keiner da
[21:13] <DMRtech> Hi folks, whats up?


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