[11:08] <smartboyhw> join #ubuntu-beginners
[11:08] <smartboyhw> Sorry guys
[15:00] <Riddell> skaet: meeting?
[15:00]  * smartboyhw thinks it is the meeting
[15:01] <ogra_> *twiddle*
[15:02] <skaet> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Sep 21 15:02:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is skaet. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:02] <highvoltage> this feels like school when the teacher is late for class and things start to get out of control
[15:02] <jbicha> \o
[15:02] <skaet> sorry,  too many IRC windows this morning
[15:02] <highvoltage> o/
[15:02] <skaet> who's around?
[15:02] <didrocks> o/
[15:02] <popey> o/
[15:03] <skaet> welcome.  :0
[15:03] <smartboyhw> \p
[15:03] <skaet> :)
[15:03] <Riddell> hi
[15:03] <smartboyhw> *\o
[15:03] <skaet> Weekly Release Agenda (and minute location):
[15:03] <skaet> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReleaseTeam/Meeting/2012-09-21
[15:03] <skaet> .
[15:03] <skaet> Upcoming dates:
[15:03] <skaet> 12.10
[15:03] <skaet>     2012/09/25: DocString Freeze at 2100 UTC (reset from 9/20 due to UIFE volume)
[15:03] <skaet>     2012/09/27: 12.10 Beta 2
[15:03] <skaet>     2012/10/04: Kernel Freeze and Desktop Infrastructure Freeze at 2100 UTC
[15:03] <skaet>     2012/10/09: Translation Deadline at 1030 UTC and Final Freeze at 2100 UTC
[15:03] <skaet> .
[15:03] <skaet> Bugs:
[15:03] <skaet> Development teams are trying to fix: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html
[15:03] <skaet> To be considered for fixing: http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-incoming-bug-tasks.html
[15:03] <skaet> .
[15:03] <skaet> Work Items:
[15:03] <skaet> 2012/09/21 -  2996 (was 2996  - 2012/09/14):   Thank you for the recent push to clean up the feature status.  :)
[15:03] <skaet> We are still behind the trendline for some of the projects.  Please help get us back where we should be by making sure https://launchpad.net/~/+upcomingwork is up to date for your tasks. If something is clearly not going to make it this cycle, please mark it POSTPONED.
[15:03] <skaet> .
[15:03] <skaet> Weekly Status Received:
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001955.html  - QA - plars
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001958.html - desktop - didrocks
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001954.html - security - mdeslaur
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001950.html - HWCert - brendand
[15:03] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001949.html  - kernel - ogasawara
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001952.html - ubuntu one - joshuahoover
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001965.html - community - balloons
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001956.html - server - arosales
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001961.html - linaro - fabo
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001968.html - Unity - popey
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001962.html - foundations - ogra_
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001960.html  - kubuntu - RIddell
[15:04] <skaet> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2012-September/001951.html - edubuntu - stgraber
[15:04] <skaet> ?? - xubuntu - knome
[15:04] <skaet> ?? - Ubuntu Studio - ScottL
[15:04] <skaet> ?? - Lubuntu - gilir
[15:04] <skaet> #topic Comments and Questions
[15:05] <skaet> couple of comments first,  and then if people have questions "o/" to get the floor.
[15:06] <skaet> Technical Overview is ready for input from teams,  please have your featurecomments in  as early as possible next week.
[15:06] <skaet> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/TechnicalOverview
[15:07] <skaet> any bugs that need to land for beta2 should get added to http://pad.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-release.  Status will be tracked there and on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/  (Beta 2 milestone to be added on Monday).
[15:07] <skaet> ..
[15:07] <skaet> any one have question to kick the round table off?
[15:08] <Laney> o/
[15:08] <skaet> go Laney
[15:08] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-font-family-sources/+bug/1048600
[15:08] <Laney> let's decide
[15:08] <Laney> I put it in the unapproved queue already.
[15:08] <Riddell> decision is taken no? it's been uploaded already
[15:09] <Riddell> kubuntu has stopped using the ubuntu font as a result
[15:09] <stgraber> Riddell: we're talking about reverting the change
[15:09] <popey> we're actively debugging the qt issue
[15:09] <skaet> Riddell,  it hasn't been applied.   we're talking about reverting it due to breakage.
[15:10] <skaet> I still haven't seen summary of what breaks with it beyond the Qt comments.   Is there anything else?
[15:10] <xnox> current status: no medium in the archive. current unapproved queue status: add medium weight.
[15:10] <Laney> no
[15:10] <Laney> the opposite of that
[15:10] <xnox> oh. ok.
[15:10]  * xnox got confused.
[15:10] <Laney> skaet: various Qt apps get a bold font instead of the normal one
[15:10] <Riddell> bug 744812 says inkscape?
[15:11] <Laney> like, try the U1 control panel
[15:11] <Laney> I also saw it on vbox
[15:11] <popey> and vlc
[15:11] <Laney> anyway, popey: you have a lead?
[15:11] <popey> we have allocated a qt person to look at it
[15:12] <popey> previously we couldn't find any expert who had time/knowledge to examine the issue further
[15:12] <Laney> do we have a bug to track?
[15:12] <Laney> I likey the soundy
[15:12] <popey> could we use the existing bug?
[15:12] <popey> or do you want a new one?
[15:12] <popey> "medium font breaks qt apps" ?
[15:12] <popey> ..
[15:12] <Laney> don't mind particularly
[15:13] <Laney> 744812 makes sense
[15:13] <popey> I will ask for regular updates
[15:13] <popey> ..
[15:13] <skaet> popey,  are we likely to get a fix today?
[15:13] <Laney> so, let's leave it in the queue until Monday?
[15:13] <popey> not likely, no.
[15:13] <skaet> there are screen shots that have to happen this weekend.
[15:14] <Laney> can they be taken with the non-broken font?
[15:14] <skaet> jbicha, ^ ?
[15:14] <Laney> either way it will be unbroken (revert or fix)
[15:14] <brendand> skaet, i get a 404 on the release upgrade dialog?
[15:15] <skaet> cjwatson,  ogra_, ^ known issue?
[15:15] <Laney> anyway, let's move on
[15:16] <Laney> ..
[15:16] <popey> if anyone with deep qt skills on the kde side could help, we'd appreciate it!
[15:16] <popey> ..
[15:16] <ogra_> skaet, the 404 ? havent heard about it
[15:17] <ogra_> skaet, though i know that xnox only recently fixed an issue wheer firefox didnt start at all for the notes
[15:17] <ogra_> so it wouldnt have been visible since FF didnt start
[15:17] <xnox> ogra_: probably means stgraber
[15:17] <ogra_> oh, k
[15:17] <ogra_> one of my team :)
[15:17] <ogra_> ..
[15:17] <skaet> brendand,  if this is a recent failure from quantal daily,  please start a discussion off on #ubuntu-release,   probably not the right time to debug it here.   :)
[15:17] <skaet> ..
[15:17] <ogra_> file a bug first place ;)
[15:17] <ogra_> ..
[15:18] <skaet> Laney, popey - so,  we leave it in pending state,  and ask jbicha to make sure to take snapshots from what is in archive right now.
[15:19] <skaet> ??
[15:19] <Laney> no, he'd have to actively use the old font
[15:19] <popey> skaet, when do you need to re-visit this?
[15:19] <popey> (or rm the -M font files)
[15:19] <Laney> I think the only screenshot that might be affected is U1 though
[15:19] <Laney> so depends on whether that's in there
[15:19] <skaet> popey,  screen shots are planned for the weekend based on last communication I heard from him.
[15:19] <stgraber> I'd personally prefer that we accept the reverted package in the archive and re-introduce the font only once qt is fixed
[15:20] <stgraber> it's a one line change in the package, so not really a problem to flip it back whenever we have a fix
[15:20] <skaet> stgraber,  I think that is the path of least surprises.
[15:20] <popey> could that happen post-b2, pre-release? (the re-enabling)
[15:21] <Laney> it can happen basically at any time
[15:21] <stgraber> popey: it's going to depend on how scary the fix is going to be
[15:21] <Laney> as long as the fix is good
[15:21] <popey> Understood. I was taking the flipping-bit in isolation there.
[15:22] <skaet> Reverting seems prudent,  given the timing,  and uncertainty of when the fix will land,  and dependencies.
[15:22] <skaet> Revert it is - unless someone yells loudly now.
[15:22] <skaet> ..
[15:22] <Laney> well, the argument for keeping it in is to provide pressure to get it fixed
[15:23] <Laney> so, as long as this person will work on it regardless
[15:23] <popey> They will
[15:23] <Laney> ok
[15:23] <Laney> someone accept it then
[15:24] <stgraber> Laney: that's odd because my feeling was the opposite, not having the font in the archive was creating more pressure on getting it fixed (as these guys seem to really want it in) ;)
[15:24] <Laney> Riddell: will kubuntu take it back? :-)
[15:24] <stgraber> Laney: I'll review and accept
[15:24] <skaet> thanks Laney,  stgraber.
[15:24] <popey> Thank you.
[15:24] <skaet> ..
[15:25] <Riddell> Laney: being able to go back to the ubuntu font would be nice
[15:25] <Laney> rock
[15:25] <Laney> coming soon to an archive near you
[15:25] <skaet> :)
[15:25] <jbicha> sorry, I was distracted; I'd prefer reverting too since it would be nice to have people contribute translated screenshots
[15:25] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:25] <stgraber> Laney: accepted. Spent a minute trying to figure out what the +console was for in the previous upload, but couldn't find any good reason :)
[15:26] <Laney> same (that's why I dropped it)
[15:26] <skaet> next topic then...  webapps uploads
[15:27] <skaet> I asked mterry to upload the missing bits to the queue,  so we could get them reviewed and decide if its safe to approve the FFe or not.
[15:28] <skaet> webapps-applications 2.4.6-0ubuntu1
[15:28] <skaet>  webapps-greasemonkey 2.3.1-0ubuntu1
[15:28] <skaet> unity-firefox-extension 2.3-0ubuntu1
[15:29] <skaet> they are key to getting the app story working properly it seems,  and we've been swirling on the FFE and feature churn associated with them.
[15:30] <skaet> I need a release team member to volunteer to review them, and make sure the implications are considered.
[15:30] <skaet> properly.
[15:30] <skaet> any volunteers?
[15:30] <jbicha> I'm really not happy with adding more items to the launcher by default without removing some to make up for it
[15:31] <jbicha> I've so far gotten no response from Design about what they'd prefer to remove, and I'd like that settled today so that we can finalize screenshots
[15:32] <highvoltage> I'm not sure they take your happiness in consideration when making these decisions ;)
[15:32] <skaet> jbicha,  we need this decided since its going to affect the screenshots as well.
[15:32] <skaet> beyond the laucher.
[15:32] <didrocks> the list of default launcher icons is sabdfled, it was already the case, it's still the case for the new list.
[15:32] <jbicha> the problem is that items won't fit without scrolling off the screen on 1366x768 pixel screens, which is the most common screen resolution today
[15:33] <didrocks> so not sure we can really discuss about removing some without some inputs here
[15:33] <didrocks> ..
[15:33] <jbicha> somebody buy sabdfl a netbook ;)
[15:34] <xnox> jbicha: sure retina display?
[15:34] <xnox> ;)
[15:34] <skaet> jbicha,  open a design error on them not fitting.   let me know the number.   Not sure this will get resolved timely or not.  but will focus on it for rest of today.
[15:34] <xnox> that would be a hell of a netbook =)
[15:34] <skaet> :)
[15:34] <jbicha> ..
[15:35] <skaet> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libunity-webapps/+bug/1040313
[15:36] <skaet> is the other problem here.
[15:36] <skaet> since the volunteers haven't rushed forward...
[15:37] <didrocks> skaet: chriscoulson reviewed the patch for firefox. He isn't thrilled about them but thinks it's ok
[15:37] <skaet> Laney,  since you understand the desktop implications best,  and infinity - since you're on as engineer for this could you both review the packages and make a recommendation.
[15:37] <skaet> ?
[15:37] <skaet> s/this/Beta 2/
[15:38] <Laney> so, we still need NEW and MIR?
[15:38] <didrocks> that's my understanding
[15:38] <skaet> yes,  that appears to be the case.
[15:39] <Laney> I don't really understand what all of the different pieces are for, to be honest
[15:39] <skaet> Laney,  mterry will help provide context and direct you to those that should know.   You know more than I do about this one,  and its high risk.
[15:40] <skaet> so want to make sure its given best chance at finding blockers/issues before we pull it in.
[15:41] <skaet> if you have someone else who's opinion you trust on this,  by all means speak up.
[15:41] <Laney> yes, Chris :-)
[15:42] <skaet> ok,  if you're willing to accept Chris' opinion on behalf of the release team for this,  ok by me.
[15:44] <skaet> mdeslaur,  do we need security reviews for the MIRs for these?  if so,  can you help expedite?
[15:45]  * skaet will work with infinity and others in #ubuntu-release channel to follow up on this.
[15:45] <skaet> ..
[15:45] <Laney> I don't mind weighing in, but technically Chris will know more than the rest of us
[15:45] <Laney> ..
[15:45] <mdeslaur> skaet: probably, yes
[15:45] <mdeslaur> skaet: we'll do what we can
[15:46] <skaet> Thanks mdeslaur,  Laney.
[15:46] <jbicha> o/
[15:46] <skaet> go jbicha
[15:47] <jbicha> I guess this is just a comment, but the GNOME Remix will try to follow along with Beta2 next week
[15:48] <jbicha> ..
[15:48] <ogra_> jbicha, i read everywhere that will be gnome2 based ... is that true ?
[15:48] <ogra_> ..
[15:48] <ogra_> (would be surprising)
[15:49] <didrocks> I would applaud *technically* speaking if this was possible, but I doubt it's the case :)
[15:49] <jbicha> ogra_: where's everywhere? it's GNOME Shell and for this cycle we're also include GNOME Fallback for those that prefer that
[15:49] <ogra_> ah, cool
[15:49] <ogra_> jbicha, several blogs, havent gotten any urls atm
[15:50] <ogra_> i was assuming thats blind speculation, just wanted to be sure :)
[15:50] <ogra_> ..
[15:50] <micahg> that wouldn't make sense as GNOME2 isn't even in the archive
[15:50] <skaet> thanks jbicha.    I'll let you know when we're ready to release beta 2 then on Thursday.
[15:50] <skaet> let me know if you need other information from us.
[15:50] <ogra_> micahg, thats why i was assuming this :)
[15:51] <skaet> ok,  any one have any worrisome bugs that are blockers for beta 2 that they know about?
[15:51] <Laney> what's this compix/nux API/ABI break business?
[15:51] <skaet> popey, ^ ?
[15:51] <didrocks> Laney: it's already in quantal
[15:52] <ogra_> and was it tested on arm this time ? :)
[15:52] <didrocks> Laney: I think popey is off by a day
[15:52] <mdeslaur> LP: #1049088 worries me
[15:52] <Laney> oh, the last stack?
[15:52] <Laney> that's fine then
[15:52] <didrocks> yep
[15:52] <popey> oops
[15:52] <skaet> bug 1049088
[15:53] <skaet> ogasawara, ^ are we likely to get a fix for Beta 2?
[15:55] <skaet> hmm... not around.    Thanks mdeslaur,  will add it to the pad of candidates.
[15:55] <mdeslaur> thanks
[15:55] <skaet> anyone else?
[15:55] <plars> skaet: amd64+mac installs are not good at the moment if you have a usb attached keyboard, due to bug #1050855 and bug #1050436
[15:55] <ogra_> plars, could that be your kbd ? given you have the same issues on arm ?
[15:55] <ogra_> :)
[15:56] <plars> ogra_: no, I don't see it actually
[15:56] <plars> ogra_: the only mac I have to test on is a macbook, and doesn't seem to be affective, but psivaa gets this on his system
[15:56] <ogra_> ah, k
[15:56] <skaet> plars,  ok,  will add both of those as well,  and follow up after the meeting with ogasawara and cjwatson.
[15:56] <plars> ogra_: and on the arm one, I've tried 3 different keyboards :)
[15:56] <ogra_> i was hoping there is a coincident across arches :)
[15:57] <skaet> ..
[15:57] <skaet> going 1
[15:57] <skaet> 2
[15:57] <skaet> 3
[15:57] <skaet> #endmeeting
[15:57] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Sep 21 15:57:35 2012 UTC.
[15:57] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-21-15.02.moin.txt
[15:57] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-09-21-15.02.html
[15:57] <ogra_> thanks skaet !
[15:57] <didrocks> thanks skaet :)
[15:57] <stgraber> thanks
[15:58] <Laney> cheers
[15:59] <skaet> Thanks ogra_ , didrocks, stgraber, plars, mdeslaur, Laney, Riddell, micahg, xnox, popey,  brendand, highvoltage, jbicha
[15:59] <xnox> =)
[15:59] <mdeslaur> thanks skaet!
[15:59] <xnox> thank you!
[15:59] <popey> thanks skaet
[16:00] <jbicha> thanks
[16:00] <cjwatson> plars,skaet: psivaa said that the grub2 side of that wasn't a regression, so, as you can see in the bug log, I declined to commit to fixing that for release
[16:00] <cjwatson> We don't have resources to do serious development work on the USB implementation in GRUB right now
[16:02] <skaet> cjwatson,  thanks.
[16:02] <cjwatson> (I have no knowledge of the kernel side)
[16:03] <cjwatson> Oh, maybe I do


[00:58] <maclin> balloons, hi, there is no beta2 iso for ubuntu kylin, and there is also  build log on Sep. 23th, should we request a rebuild on iso tracker?
[02:08] <ianorlin> ok
[02:20] <ianorlin> lsl
[04:40] <pitti> Good morning
[06:03] <elfy> wxl: lightdm keeps breaking on vm - on hardware was an issue a while back for some, with .9 it appears to be a vm issue
[06:13] <ianorlin> elfy same hardware works with .9 for me
[06:25] <elfy> I wish I could do more with this issue to help - I guess it's useful to know that it works with systemd and not upstart
[06:36] <pitti> elfy: where does it break for you -- already in the live system (that works fine here), or later in the installed system?
[06:37] <elfy> pitti: install with the beta image - works
[06:37] <elfy> boot into installed system - fails - start the lightdm service
[06:37] <elfy> edit grub.cfg to use systemd - reboot
[06:37] <elfy> boots into desktop fine
[06:38] <elfy> note - this is only vm issue - hardware works fine for me
[07:36] <jibel> pitti, it seems like a race, but happens only after installation, and apparently only on VMs, but unless it's a driver issue there is no reason for it to be VM specific
[16:14] <wxl> elfy: yeah that's what i figured, which is why i asked the question about hardware :)
[17:51] <josua> hello
[19:14] <Letozaf_> balloons, hi
[19:27] <balloons> Letozaf_, hello
[19:28] <Letozaf_> balloons, I wanted to ask you if this is a bug, an error that occoured after reboot of ubuntu server https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10083981/server.png
[19:29] <Letozaf_> balloons, the two systemd errors after login
[19:30] <balloons> Letozaf_, interesting
[19:30] <balloons> obviously something wrong with systemd..
[19:30] <Letozaf_> balloons, I was testing today's server iso
[19:31] <dkessel> dkessel: i have seen that message too the other day... i can confirm ;)
[19:31] <Letozaf_> dkessel, :-)
[19:32] <Letozaf_> balloons, is this a bug to report ?
[19:32] <elfy> balloons: it joins upstart then :p at least you can boot with systemd lol
[19:32] <Letozaf_> elfy, :-) always joking :P
[19:33] <balloons> dkessel, :-) Did you happen to file a bug on it?
[19:33] <balloons> I'm not surprised to see the errors, since systemd is very new
[19:34] <elfy> Letozaf_: it comes with age - if you don't laugh you'd cry :)
[19:34] <elfy> balloons: I've seen that off and on as well - ftr
[19:35] <Letozaf_> elfy, lol don't talk to me about age :P
[19:35] <dkessel> balloons: nope, sorry...
[19:35] <Letozaf_> elfy, and you're right it's better to laugh than to cry :P
[19:35] <elfy> :)
[19:35] <balloons> Letozaf_, sounds like you are the lucky one to file
[19:35] <elfy> balloons: I might actually have seen one for that
[19:35]  * balloons checks quickly it hasn't been reported
[19:36] <Letozaf_> balloons, ok then let me file :)
[19:36]  * Letozaf_ waits
[19:37] <balloons> mm, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/1358961
[19:37] <balloons> possibly quite the same bug
[19:38]  * Letozaf_ is reading the bug report
[19:38] <balloons> and * Letozaf_ is reading the bug report
[19:38] <balloons> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/systemd-shim/+bug/1359439
[19:39] <dkessel> i would take the second one
[19:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, yes the latter is the one
[19:39] <balloons> also, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=756247
[19:39] <Letozaf_> balloons, OMG ...
[19:40] <balloons> we keep climbing the ladder :-) Found the source in debian
[19:40] <balloons> ohh, lol, that bug report has it marked
[19:41] <balloons> cool, so just link it and I think you are good
[19:41] <Letozaf_> balloons, thanks
[19:41] <elfy> balloons: I'm going to ask my lot to not test on vms so we don't see any of this :)
[22:38] <coolspot> hi


 Hello, good afternoon Kubuntu staff, how's it going? I've been a Kubuntu user for two days now, my first time with this distribution, I've been using LMDE 5 on another computer and I switched to Kubuntu because of driver problems.
 Lately I get some updates that after being installed still appear in loop, does it happen to anyone else, should I be worried?
 Regards.
 I can't send screenshots until tomorrow
 I cannot access my vault anymore after my kubuntu 22.04 froze and had to do a hard reboot. Any way to access my vault again, correct password does not work. Only the last file i had open is available but not in the vault.  Also tried TImeshift to a few days ago but still not luck.  The error is...Failed to open: The mount point directory is not empty, refusing to open vault. and...Failed to open: Unable to perform the operation (error code 12
 8xa8
[12:45] <Guest72> which is good kubuntu or kde neon?
[13:08] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 + how can i burn a bootable  iso to a partition
 https://github.com/WoeUSB/WoeUSB-ng (re @Omar: + how can i burn a bootable  iso to a partition)
 dd and mark it as bootable ? not sure, I always write it to the whole device, not a partition
[15:39] <alkisg1> Omar, you can't, boot loaders are installed to disks, not to partitions (long story made short)
[15:39] <alkisg1> If you have grub in your disk, then you can tell your existing grub to load anything from anywhere, but it's your existing grub that will load first
[15:39] <alkisg1> UEFI/BIOS can't boot partitions, it can only boot disks
[15:51] <user|69> i instald kubuntu 1504 on a dell comp. the wifi do not work
 My device is 64 gigs so it is a waste of space (re @ykruH: dd and mark it as bootable ? not sure, I always write it to the whole device, not a partition)
[15:52] <user|69> just on a partition
 No way around it? (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Omar, you can't, boot loaders are installed to disks, not to partitions (long story made short))
 Ahaa (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> UEFI/BIOS can't boot partitions, it can only boot disks)
 Ok ok
[15:53] <user|69> how can i find what device is in my comp for wifi
[15:53] <alkisg1> Omar, there are many ways to boot from partitions, but no ways to make UEFI/BIOS boot a partition
[15:54] <alkisg1> user|69, try this: lsusb | nc termbin.com 9999
[15:54] <alkisg1> Tell us the URL it shows
 Ok thank you (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Omar, there are many ways to boot from partitions, but no ways to make UEFI/BIOS boot a partition)
[15:55] <alkisg1> user|69, kubuntu 15.04 is 7 years old, are you sure you don't mean 22.04?
[15:56] <user|69> no my comp is a 32 bit
 Ok so what is the pest filesystem for a USB flash?
 Do you want to write a linux ISO to it ?
 then simply dd the iso file to the entire device
[15:58] <alkisg1> Omar, one way is to dd the iso. That is probably the most compatible way, but you won't be able to write anything else in that stick.
 Yeah (re @ykruH: Do you want to write a linux ISO to it ?)
[15:58] <alkisg1> Other ways are to use special programs like ventoy, which support putting multiple isos to the same stick, AND your documents
 Can i install linux on a new laptop with this? (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Omar, one way is to dd the iso. That is probably the most compatible way, but you won't be able to write anything else in that stick.)
[15:59] <alkisg1> Yes, you can
 That is all i want (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Yes, you can)
[15:59] <alkisg1> 👍
 So haw to do this dd thing
[15:59] <alkisg1> Insert your stick and type: sudo lsblk --fs | nc termbin.com 9999
[16:00] <alkisg1> So that we tell you how to umount it and which device to use
 https://termbin.com/tznm
[16:03] <alkisg1> OK so your stick is sdb, and is not mounted
[16:03] <alkisg1> (make sure that's not a second internal disk!)
[16:03] <alkisg1> So the command would be: sudo dd if=/path/to/disk.iso of=/dev/sdb bs=4M status=progress
 it is working
[16:08] <alkisg1> When it finishes, to unplug it, run: sync; udisksctl power-off -b /dev/sdb
 Error looking up object for device /dev/sdb
 this is the output
[16:15] <alkisg1> Output of what, the udisksctl command or the dd command?
 udisksctl
 this is for the dd https://termbin.com/rq3z (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Output of what, the udisksctl command or the dd command?)
 bash: /home/the-divine/.config/plasmavaultrc: Permission denied (re @IrcsomeBot: <genii> What directory does ~/.config/plasmavaultrc say is the mountpoint? ... check to see if something is in there and if so then move it somewhere else...)
[16:19] <alkisg1> Omar, pastebin the output of: (sudo lsblk --fs; sudo dmesg | tail; sudo udisksctl power-off -b /dev/sdb) 2>&1 | nc termbin.com 9999
 should i first plug it or unplug it  ?
[16:21] <alkisg1> If it's unplugged, there's no point to unmounted it with udisksctl anymore :)
 https://termbin.com/wndq
[16:46] <alkisg1> Omar, looks good, try to boot with it
 Hi all, Is kubuntu officially supported by canonical lik Ubuntu?
[17:02] <alkisg1> Ubuntu isn't officially supported by Canonical. Only the "main" component is
[17:02] <alkisg1> It's the same for Kubuntu, only the "main" component is; which leaves out the whole desktop environment, but it includes the kernel, firefox etc etc
[17:03] <alkisg1> (a default ubuntu installation only has software from main though; but real installations rarely do)
[17:05] <alkisg1> So most of the other programs are in "universe" and are supported by the community
 My laptop battery has died i will come again in other day (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Omar, looks good, try to boot with it)
 But i think it toke the hole flash not just the 4 gigs partition
[17:10] <alkisg1> Omar, yes, dd'ing to a disk erases the whole disk
[17:11] <alkisg1> Ah so you didn't want to "make a partition bootable", you wanted to "avoid deleting one partition"
[17:11] <alkisg1> I didn't understand that, not sure if anyone else understood it....
 I think i missexplained what i wanted (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Omar, yes, dd'ing to a disk erases the whole disk)
 Im sorry i didn't explain well (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> I didn't understand that, not sure if anyone else understood it....)
 I wanted to make a bootable partition
[17:14] <alkisg1> No, you wanted to put the disk in the usb disk without deleting one of its partitions
[17:14] <alkisg1> It's a completely different thing
[17:14] <alkisg1> *iso disk in the usb stick
 Is it possible?
[17:16] <alkisg1> It's already deleted now
 I know
 I will format it and make a partition again i need the space
[17:17] <alkisg1> As I said, you can use ventoy or similar software to create a stick with one or more partitions, with bootable .iso files, and with free space
[17:18] <alkisg1> Go to https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html and have a read
 Hi, unfortunately I don't know English well and generally use a translator. But okay. The system began to take a lot of RAM. Literally 2/3 GB
 What should I do?
 Ok thank you very much (re @IrcsomeBot: <alkisg1> Go to https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html and have a read)
 I have an audio problem with Plasma, I am using the Digital Stereo (IEC958) Output and it works for some time until it reverts to Analog Stereo Duplex for no apparent reason, I think it is related to the the autodetect feature on this soundcard.  Anyone knows a solution ?
[23:19] <mmikowski> Schmo> I ran Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and W10. I also tested Xubuntu and even Manjaro.  I was able to move with track pad and arrow keys after boot from W10, but not the others. < Sounds like  kernel issue here then, since XFCE and SDDM also failed to work (apparently). You can run your hardware through linux-hardware.org and see what they say. Best of luck to you,.


[02:54] <sabhain> is the us mirror always slow (<100k/s transfer)?
[23:19] <Batshua> <.<
[23:19] <Batshua> >.>
[23:21] <DonkeyHotei> ^.^
[23:21] <Batshua> I am having the no-sound-bug on a freshly installed 12.04
[23:22] <Batshua> I can't remember what I did last time (a couple of years ago) to fix it.
[23:22] <Batshua> I'm googling and I tried killing pulseaudio but apparently it's not RUNNING?!
[23:22] <DonkeyHotei> did you install from a mythbuntu iso?
[23:22] <Batshua> Yeees.
[23:23] <DonkeyHotei> what does alsamixer say?
[23:23] <Batshua> let me ask Mr. Alsamixer.
[23:25] <Batshua> Mr. Alsamixer says "nothing is muted, volume all the way up on both sound card settings"
[23:25] <Batshua> and yet, no sound. :-/
[23:26] <DonkeyHotei> how many entries in /proc/asound/cards ?
[23:31] <Batshua> uh, dunno, lemme look
[23:32] <Batshua> there should be two cards
[23:32] <Batshua> 2
[23:33] <Batshua> one labeled 0 [PCH]
[23:33] <Batshua> one labeled 1 [NVidia]
[23:33] <Batshua> They're both HDA-Intel somethingorother
[23:33] <DonkeyHotei> try "alsamixer -c 0" and "alsamixer -c 1"
[23:34] <Batshua> Everything looks okay?
[23:34] <DonkeyHotei> on both?
[23:34] <Batshua> Yes, although 0 has bars
[23:34] <Batshua> and 1 has boxes
[23:34] <Batshua> 0 has bars that are full up
[23:35] <Batshua> 1 has boxes labeled 00
[23:35] <DonkeyHotei> where do you actually have the sound hooked up?
[23:35] <DonkeyHotei> the nvidia one would be hdmi audio
[23:41] <Batshua> Uh, currently just 0
[23:41] <Batshua> but ideally I would like ot use 1
[23:41] <Batshua> (as well)
[23:41] <Batshua> once I have the video set up
[23:41] <Batshua> I need to figure out why the heck I odn't have nvidia drivers
[23:41] <Batshua> and what to do about it
[23:42] <DonkeyHotei> does "pulseaudio -k" still say it's not running?
[23:42] <DonkeyHotei> nvidia drivers are dead-simple to install
[23:42] <Batshua> batshua@PeeVeeArr:~$ pulseaudio -k
[23:42] <Batshua> The program 'pulseaudio' is currently not installed.  You can install it by typing:
[23:42] <Batshua> sudo apt-get install pulseaudio
[23:43] <DonkeyHotei> interesting
[23:43] <DonkeyHotei> leave it uninstalled for the moment
[23:43] <Batshua> re NVidia, It says they're installed but it also says "no proprietary drivers are in use on this system"
[23:43] <DonkeyHotei> odd
[23:43] <Batshua> I don't know why it's being so weird, I imagine it's the updates since the last time I installed 12.04
[23:43] <Batshua> There were 427 system updates after I installed.
[23:44] <DonkeyHotei> is your video actually hooked up through the nvidia card?
[23:46] <tgm4883> pulseaudio isn't installed on mythbuntu systems
[23:46] <DonkeyHotei> xbmcbuntu installs it, oddly enough
[23:46] <Batshua> uh
[23:46] <Batshua> I want to say yes.
[23:46] <Batshua> I believe it is. I have two CRT-outs
[23:46] <Batshua> and one is on the Nvidia card
[23:46] <Batshua> lemme go check
[23:49] <DonkeyHotei> hmm:
[23:49] <DonkeyHotei>  libmyth-0.26-0 depends on libpulse0 (>= 1:0.99.1).
[23:50] <DonkeyHotei> tgm4883: so how is it not installed?
[23:50] <superm1> recommends
[23:50] <superm1> oh i mean wrong - libpulse0 != pulseaudio
[23:50] <superm1> that's so it can support pulseaudio if installed
[23:57] <Batshua> it is the case that the video is going through the nvida
[23:59] <tgm4883> as with all issues, I'd recommend checking it works outside of mythtv first (using something like speaker-test)


[12:09] <troy_s> dammit
[02:33] <troy_s> greetings Dennis.
[11:49] <PingunZ> goodmorning all
[01:19] <cbx33> hi all need some info about usplash images
[01:19] <cbx33> ogra mentioned that there is some kind of colour indexing that gives rise to font colours
[01:19] <cbx33> can someone enlightenme on this
[01:19] <cbx33> AliasVegas is doing the artwork for edubuntu and has asked me to find the informaion
[01:28] <troy_s> cbx33, the usplash is changing
[01:28] <cbx33> oh?
[01:28] <cbx33> when will we know?
[01:28] <troy_s> yes check the mailing list archives...
[01:28] <troy_s> you can also check the spec
[01:28] <troy_s> but the information is loose right now
[01:28] <troy_s> you can basically see what is required by checking the spec
[01:28] <cbx33> oh dang
[01:29] <cbx33> ok
[01:29] <troy_s> Hope that helps.
[01:30] <cbx33> partially
[01:34] <cbx33> troy_s, when will we know the techinical constraints
[01:35] <PingunZ> hey, I made a proposal to Frank Schoep aka fschoep : a forum for ubuntu artwork, replacing the wiki, mailing list and launchpad
[01:35] <PingunZ> any comments ?
[01:44] <troy_s> Not likely
[01:44] <troy_s> The forum isn't very useful...
[01:44] <troy_s> if you check the archives, you can see the progress that was made to centralize all of the information in three unified systems.
[01:44] <PingunZ> not the forum, a new one
[01:44] <PingunZ> only for ubuntu-art
[01:44] <troy_s> Possibly in the future, not now.
[01:44] <troy_s> The tools in place are underused.
[01:45] <troy_s> cbx33 -- Frank is keeping his ear to the ground as best as he can.
[01:45] <PingunZ> but now its hard for beginners to join
[01:45] <troy_s> Not really.
[01:45] <troy_s> Check the wiki.
[01:45] <troy_s> All the information is there.
[01:45] <PingunZ> hmm
[01:45] <troy_s> cbx33 -- Until then, develop according to the outline Frank recorded there.
[01:45] <troy_s> cbx33 -- and you will be covered.
[01:45] <PingunZ> troy_s, I'll pm you the text I wrote to Frank
[01:46] <troy_s> I believe Dennis posted the information originally -- he is very knowledgeable.
[01:46] <troy_s> Feel free to post it here in the forum.  Transparency is fine with me.
[01:46] <PingunZ> just so you get the Idea
[01:46] <troy_s> I get the idea.
[01:46] <troy_s> ;)
[01:46] <PingunZ> but it 30lines ;)
[01:46] <PingunZ> I'll pastebin it -_-
[01:46] <troy_s> If you look at how successful we have thus far been at gathering momentum, you can see why we want to keep the options limited.
[01:47] <PingunZ> just take a look at the pastebin ..
[01:47] <PingunZ> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/20545
[01:48] <troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art -- as of about three months ago, that membership was extremely low.
[01:48] <troy_s> the information is getting out there, it takes time to establish procedures.
[01:48] <PingunZ> soz for my english btw ;)
[01:49] <troy_s> Your english is fine,
[01:49] <PingunZ> thank you
[01:49] <troy_s> the reasoning behind the threefold approach is quite easy and clear:
[01:50] <PingunZ> hmm whats a threefold approach ?
[01:50] <troy_s> 1) The development team for Ubuntu developed Launchpad, uses it extensively, and we -- being a team wishing to coordinate with them -- should do so accordingly.
[01:50] <troy_s> 2) Launchpad requires a Wiki in place to provide spec details.
[01:50] <troy_s> 3) Busy folks with careers and hundreds of emails to read cannot check a forum.
[01:51] <PingunZ> no but they can check a wiki and launcpah and lots of emails ?
[01:51] <troy_s> Emails you can filter based on content.
[01:51] <troy_s> and the Wiki is required based on how Launchpad works.
[01:51] <PingunZ> the forums will be as structured as possible
[01:51] <PingunZ> no spam ..
[01:51] <troy_s> It is how Ubuntu is developed.
[01:51] <PingunZ> just basic info
[01:52] <troy_s> Simplicity is better in my experience.
[01:52] <PingunZ> but its really hard for beginners like me
[01:52] <troy_s> That's fine.  Take your time.
[01:52] <troy_s> Learn the system.
[01:52] <PingunZ> and IMO forums are more simple then this
[01:52] <troy_s> There is _no_ rush.
[01:52] <PingunZ> I know
[01:52] <troy_s> The whole point of structure is to gather coordinated and uniform input.
[01:52] <PingunZ> but lots of beginners are scared when they just join
[01:53] <PingunZ> so they stop joining
[01:53] <troy_s> Prior to the structure and Paris, there were merely a glut of garbage posted to the mailing list.
[01:53] <troy_s> That's fine.
[01:53] <PingunZ> thats not fine, ubuntu needs better art
[01:53] <PingunZ> ( no offense )
[01:53] <troy_s> Graphic art development / creative development is a craft, you need to work.
[01:53] <troy_s> I agree.
[01:53] <troy_s> Process is what gets one to better art.
[01:53] <troy_s> Learn the system, read the specifications.
[01:54] <troy_s> And 'better' art is very subjective.
[01:54] <PingunZ> true
[01:54] <troy_s> You need to be aware of cultural, societal, and other factors that determine a word like 'better'.
[01:54] <PingunZ> but I think everyone agrees that suse looks better ?
[01:54] <troy_s> I don't think it is that simple.
[01:55] <troy_s> Further, we have development constraints to create aesthetic work within.
[01:55] <PingunZ> whats that ?
[01:55] <PingunZ> aesti.. ?
[01:55] <troy_s> Consider usplash for example -- there will be no adjusting it in the near future for Edgy aside from Scott's changes.
[01:55] <troy_s> We have tried to establish a paper trail -- read the specs at Launchpad
[01:55] <troy_s> and the associated wiki pages.
[01:56] <troy_s> You can hopefully learn much through that documentation.
[01:56] <troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-art/+specs
[01:56] <troy_s> I must head off to careerland now... good luck PinguinZ.  And keep up your enthusiasm.
[01:56] <PingunZ> thanks
[01:56] <PingunZ> bye
[01:57] <andreasn> PingunZ: suse looks better because Novell has some of the best artists free software on their payroll
[01:57] <troy_s> And they cut corners regarding issues like usplash.
[01:57] <troy_s> Etc.
[01:58] <troy_s> Much to consider ;)
[01:58] <troy_s> That said, Suse has a long way to go as well
[01:59] <PingunZ> andreasn, we have good artists too
[01:59] <PingunZ> maybe not as good
[02:00] <PingunZ> but I'm convinced that the ubuntu art could be a lot better if we had a better structure
[02:00] <troy_s> If suse were the end - all -- it would be more successful than it is.
[02:00] <PingunZ> no cause its rly slow
[02:00] <troy_s> Read the mailing list archives ;)
[02:02] <PingunZ> brb
[02:04] <andreasn> yeah, they do. Stuff like interface consistency is still years behind apples interfaces
[02:04] <andreasn> and stuff like sane use of icons as interface icons and stuff like that
[02:04] <andreasn> err...icons as interface elements I mean
[02:05] <PingunZ> have you guys read the text I wrote ?
[02:05] <PingunZ> ( soz if I'm repeating  :) )
[02:05] <PingunZ> can you tell me the things you dont like about it ? / like about it
[02:06] <PingunZ> Its just an idea .. But I'm really sure it has to become more user-firendly
[02:11] <fschoep> troy_s: ping?
[02:13] <PingunZ> hi fschoep
[02:13] <PingunZ> got the email I sent you ?
[02:13] <fschoep> Hi PingunZ, yes I got the e-mail. Looks good.
[02:13] <PingunZ> thanks
[02:13] <PingunZ> my best english :)
[02:14] <fschoep> Don't worry about it too much, it's good!
[02:14] <fschoep> Thanks for taking the time to write it all down.
[02:14] <PingunZ> but can you edit it a little
[02:14] <PingunZ> ?
[02:15] <fschoep> Sure, I'll edit it to make it fit in well with the spec template. Maybe provide some more information on several issues and that, but I'll use your mail as a basis.
[02:15] <PingunZ> I mean .. I dont really know the structure yet ..
[02:15] <fschoep> No problem, you'll learn everything over time :)
[02:15] <PingunZ> true
[02:15] <PingunZ> btw do you like the idea fschoep
[02:16] <fschoep> Well, it sounds like a good opportunity to get more people involved, so I'm all for it I guess. I haven't really thought about the consequences much, so maybe there are also some good points for *not* doing something like this. But writing out the spec will make me think about it more, so let's wait and see :)
[02:17] <cbx33> Hi fschoep
[02:17] <fschoep> Hey Pete
[04:50] <fschoep_> I'm going to eat, might be back later on.
[04:50] <fschoep_> See you later
[08:54] <cbx33> hi guys what's the maximum image size we design on
[08:54] <cbx33> 1600x1200 ?
[12:05] <PingunZ> bye all


[12:37] <yano> .tw https://twitter.com/ircpuzzles/status/715871364226355201
[12:37] <jenni> ... and we're off! First clue this year for the 2016 #ircpuzzles April Fool's Day Challenge is: IyMjIyMjQUZEMjAxNlN0YXJ0 | By: @ircpuzzles, Date: Fri Apr 01 12:00:08 +0000 2016, RT#: 1, Favs: 2


[08:03] <ivoks> hi
[08:04] <wasabi_> hi
[08:04] <ivoks> i'm having problems with eclipse in breezy, if this is good place to ask about it
[08:04] <wasabi_> THe perfect place.
[08:05] <ivoks> hehe
[08:05] <ivoks> well, starting eclipse brings me message A suitable Java Virtual Machine for running the Eclipse platform could not be located
[08:05] <wasabi_> Hmmm.
[08:06] <wasabi_> yeah, I can see that happening. We need to figure out a better way of going about that.
[08:06] <wasabi_> apt-get install java-gcj-compat
[08:07] <ivoks> i did :(
[08:07] <ivoks> i have everything
[08:07] <ivoks> sun java too
[08:07] <wasabi_> Hmm.
[08:07] <wasabi_> Check out /etc/jvm.d/eclipse
[08:08] <ivoks> right
[08:08] <ivoks> that's it, i guess
[08:08] <wasabi_> Does that have /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj listed in it?
[08:08] <ivoks> yes
[08:08] <ivoks> but before it it has j2sdk1.5 -> 1.3
[08:08] <wasabi_> Does /usr/lib/jvm/java-gcj exist?
[08:08] <wasabi_> Yeah.
[08:09] <wasabi_> That should be fine. It will attempt to use those before it attempts to use java-gcj-compat
[08:09] <wasabi_> BUt since you don't have those.
[08:09] <ivoks> i have j2sdk1.4
[08:09] <wasabi_> Hmm. Is the path right?
[08:09] <wasabi_> Basically that file lets you choose the VM search oder.
[08:09] <wasabi_> order
[08:10] <ivoks> i commented j2sdk, same problem
[08:10] <ivoks> i could strace it..
[08:10] <wasabi_> No need.
[08:10] <ivoks> ok
[08:10] <wasabi_> run this
[08:10] <wasabi_> /usr/share/java-common/find_jvm.sh eclipse
[08:11] <ivoks> JAVA-HOME=
[08:11] <ivoks> s/-/_
[08:11] <wasabi_> Hmmm.
[08:11] <ivoks> that's the problem :)
[08:11] <wasabi_> what?
[08:11] <ivoks> JAVA_HOME= should point to java libs, right?
[08:12] <wasabi_> You should not have to set Java_home at all anywhere.
[08:12] <wasabi_> It should be working right now.
[08:12] <wasabi_> paste me the contents of /etc/jvm.d/eclipse
[08:12] <wasabi_> and the output from dpkg -l java-common eclipse-rcp java-gcj-compat
[08:13] <wasabi_> Oh. Wait a sec.
[08:13] <wasabi_> I have a suspician.
[08:13] <wasabi_> env | grep JAVA_HOME
[08:13] <wasabi_> send me the output from that
[08:13] <ivoks> no output
[08:13] <wasabi_> that's good
[08:13] <ivoks> it worked before
[08:14] <wasabi_> That find_jvm command is supposed to scan the files in /etc/jvm and find the first working jvm.
[08:14] <wasabi_> but it's returning nothing.
[08:15] <ivoks> yes..
[08:16] <ivoks> strace shows it drops right after zenity
[08:16] <wasabi_> strace isn't going to do much for you
[08:16] <wasabi_> send me the output of those files.
[08:16] <ivoks> jvm.d?
[08:16] <wasabi_> It's just one very simple shell script.
[08:16] <wasabi_> jvm.d/eclipse
[08:16] <ivoks> query
[08:25] <ivoks_> sorry about that...
[08:26] <ivoks> great job! eclipse starts a lot faster now
[08:27] <wasabi_> thans
[08:27] <wasabi_> thanks
[08:52] <wasabi_> wasabi_ doko, what do you think about integrating a update-gcj-classmaps script into gij?
[08:52] <wasabi_> wasabi_ It doesn't belong in Eclipse, and it doesn't belong in j-g-c
[08:52] <wasabi_> wasabi_ It belongs with gcj-dbtool.


[09:43] <anonym624> help
[09:43] <anonym624> leph
[09:43] <anonym624> hello all
[09:45] <hrnz> hello
[09:45] <anonym624> how do long use ubuntu
[09:46] <hrnz> i don't
[09:46] <hrnz> and i've never used ubuntu in my entire life
[09:46] <anonym624> ok
[09:47] <hrnz> why do you ask?
[09:47] <anonym624> do you like ubuntu?
[09:47] <hrnz> nope
[09:48] <anonym624> and what do you like OS
[09:50] <hrnz> debian, arch, gentoo, fedora, exherbo, funtoo
[09:51] <anonym624> I like debian and arch too
[09:51] <hrnz> that's nice.


[00:26] <elky> bradm, things fell over therefore you could not possibly have?
[00:27] <elky> Surely infinate bandwidth magically fixes everything
[00:31] <bradm> elky: indeed
[00:31] <bradm> even with increased bandwidth, there was a lot of interest in this release
[00:42] <lifeless> bradm: perhaps because we don't talk in public about it ?
[00:42] <lifeless> bradm: not in any detail, so folk cannot grok whats up
[00:42] <bradm> lifeless: guess so
[00:43] <lifeless> (I'm not questioning whether we should or shouldn't, just saying that you are in a privileged position to know :))
[00:43] <lifeless> I doubt most of our *staff* know if we do/don't.
[00:45] <lifeless> bradm: ^
[00:46] <bradm> lifeless: yeah, I see all the servers melt :)
[01:06] <elky> There's also the matter of assuming in good faith.
[01:17] <lifeless> elky: that would be nice
[01:17] <lifeless> elky: buuuuut
[01:21] <elky> I know :P
[01:59] <Kalidarn> :( http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120426/14505718671/insanity-cispa-just-got-way-worse-then-passed-rushed-vote.shtml
[04:11] <ikt> didn't even get close to a TB uploaded
[04:11] <ikt> :(\
[04:11] <ikt> uploaded 126GB in total
[04:12] <ikt> but half of that was in the first 3 hours
[09:56] <sagaci> head_victim: pingety ping ping ping
[09:56] <md_5> rage!
[09:56] <sagaci> the power of the ping
[09:56] <md_5> my mouse back/forward keys work in firefox but not nautilus
[09:56] <md_5> what is this shit :(
[09:57] <head_victim> Hehe
[09:57]  * head_victim isn't here, please leave a message after the PING
[09:58] <benonsoftware> :D
[10:13] <sagaci> head_victim: how does one import ical exports but retain their local time
[10:13] <head_victim> Um?
[10:14] <head_victim> You have an ical you've taken from point A, you want to install in another program in point B that is in a different TZ to point A?
[10:15] <head_victim> Which program are you importing from/to? Can you just add a different TZ?
[10:15] <sagaci> google cal
[10:16] <head_victim> Create a new calendar in the account with a different time zone and copy?
[10:16] <head_victim> And just pick which one to show at any one time?
[10:16] <sagaci> yeah, seems to be the easiest way
[10:16] <head_victim> Hell, you could even just share the private link with yourself
[10:16] <sagaci> since it seems that you can't delete a week of events
[10:16] <head_victim> That way whatever you change in one is updated in the other.
[10:16] <head_victim> Complete mirror
[10:51] <sagaci> head_victim: so what kind of throughput do you get copying big files over your network
[10:51] <head_victim> Never really checked with decent hardware to be honest
[10:53] <head_victim> Hang on, I'll mount a windows share on the wife's PC and rsync to see
[10:53]  * benonsoftware nearly screwed his EC2 server updating to 12.04
[10:59] <head_victim> sagaci: forget that, apparently I need to log her out to set up file sharing.
[11:00] <sagaci> ah ok, just wanted to see what kinda speeds i'm missing out on
[11:01] <head_victim> Probably not much
[11:01] <head_victim> I don't even know what I should be expecting
[11:02] <head_victim> Currently though I just realised everything is hanging off an old 8 port 10/100
[11:02] <head_victim> The 10/100/1000 is sitting down in the dining room
[11:03] <sagaci> going to play it safe and copy everything over to 2GB sticks
[11:03] <head_victim> Updating now?
[11:04] <sagaci> clean installing the netbook with lubuntu
[11:04] <sagaci> but it has around 10GB of data I want to keep and around 20GB data on the windows 7 partition that I'm about to wipe
[11:04] <head_victim> Ah I'm going to "clean" install on this machine but keep /home
[11:05] <head_victim> Assuming I can work out how to do that in the partitioning.
[11:05] <sagaci> it's not hard but I get annoyed with having to do it all right
[11:06] <sagaci> and I prefer a clean /home with default configs
[11:07] <head_victim> True, I could move /home to a spare drive and only suck back what I want
[11:07] <sagaci> choices, choices!
[11:09] <sagaci> a student is going to try out ubuntu tomorrow on his toshiba laptop
[11:11] <head_victim> rsync -av --progress /home /new/place ftw
[11:28] <sagaci> so theoretically I shouldn't have to reinstall this netbook until 2017
[11:29] <head_victim> I've been going LTS to LTS on my desktop.
[11:29] <head_victim> Was more concerned with Unity but it's proven pretty good now so happy to make the change
[11:33] <sagaci> it's pretty McPolised
[11:33] <sagaci> just about to blow windows away
[11:44] <head_victim> So if I back up home and etc I should be pretty safe
[11:50] <sagaci> yup
[11:53] <jaddi27> sagaci, Updated to 12.04 now. Looking good so far
[11:54] <head_victim> kvm or virtualbox?
[11:55] <sagaci> I rarely use vms these days
[11:55] <sagaci> jaddi27: yep, just reinstalling lubuntu now
[11:55] <sagaci> on the netbook, might try kubuntu on the desktop for a while
[11:55] <jaddi27> head_victim, actual laptop, not a vm
[11:55] <head_victim> I do it for anything I don't want to put on my main machine. Either dev releases or projects
[11:56] <jaddi27> sagaci, reinstalling already? or updating to 12.04?
[11:56] <sagaci> clean installing to 12.04
[11:56] <sagaci> netbook was on 11.10 for the full cycle, which is pretty rare
[11:56] <jaddi27> yeah, i did a clean install also, but kept my /home partition
[11:56] <sagaci> usually I reinstall periodically but I didn't use the netbook much over my laptop
[11:57] <jaddi27> looks like a few of the people from last night are still here - it is the longest list of people i have seen on the channel for a long time
[12:00] <sagaci> looks like they removed those test packages, translations dropped back down to 3500
[12:00] <jaddi27> That is a better number
[12:01] <jaddi27> I have not had time to finish off the untranslated strings, but should get back to it soon
[12:01] <jaddi27> There were a lot of unnecessary packages based on the emails recently to the translators list
[12:04] <sagaci> quantal translations won't open for a couple of months so 3500 should be a knockover by then
[12:08] <jaddi27> yep, it should be fine to get done by then


[00:00] <ahoneybun> yea I just like to not wait till the last min
[00:03] <ahoneybun> we are getting noticed thats for sure
[00:10] <valorie> good work tends to do that!
[00:13] <valorie> now, dinner
[00:13] <valorie> ttyl
[01:11] <ahoneybun> palasso_: ping
[01:11] <ahoneybun> palasso_: is this you? https://plus.google.com/113434423178207628891/posts
[01:25] <ahoneybun> valorie:
[01:29] <ahoneybun> dantti:
[01:29] <ahoneybun> Darkwing:
[01:29] <ahoneybun> dantti: sorry wrong person
[02:01] <ahoneybun> himcesjf: hello
[03:06] <himcesjf> Hey
[03:06] <himcesjf> Hi ahoneybun
[03:12] <shadeslayer> morning
[03:39] <ahoneybun> himcesjf: hi
[03:39] <ahoneybun> shadeslayer: late night here
[03:40] <ahoneybun> himcesjf: do you have a google plus page?
[04:00] <shadeslayer> dafuq
[04:00] <shadeslayer> W: Failed to fetch https://private-ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-ninjas/ppa/ubuntu/dists/saucy/main/binary-amd64/Packages
[05:35] <lordievader> Great link about the sysadmins, valorie :D
[05:38] <palasso> ahoneybun, yeah that's me though I don't use it often ;)
[05:41] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ping
[05:47] <ScottK> Riddell: Apparently Canonical do think they own the binaries.  http://www.canonical.com/intellectual-property-policy claims you need to recompile binaries if you want to redistribute modified versions of Ubuntu.
[05:52] <shadeslayer> ScottK: it also says "The disk, CD, installer and system images, together with Ubuntu packages and binary files, are in many cases copyright of Canonical "
[05:52] <shadeslayer> many cases? like what?
[05:52] <shadeslayer> does that apply to only unity stuff?
[05:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I can't figure out how to start an ec2 instance :S
[05:53] <shadeslayer> something is going wrong with key.pem
[06:26] <soee> good morning
[08:46] <Riddell> ScottK: yeah I know, which is nonsense and very objectionable
[08:47] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what are you doing?
[08:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I believe they mean ubiquity/unity/casper/etc.
[08:49] <shadeslayer> Riddell: I tried ec2-run-instances ami-6f951d6e -t m1.small --region ap-northeast-1 --key key
[08:49] <shadeslayer> but that didn't work
[08:50] <Riddell> "Client.InvalidKeyPair.NotFound: The key pair 'key' does not exist"  uh oh
[08:51] <Riddell> shadeslayer: oh ap-northeast-1
[08:51] <shadeslayer> hm?
[08:51] <Riddell> shadeslayer: keys are different for each ec2 regions
[08:51] <shadeslayer> ahhhh
[08:51] <Riddell> I've only made them for us east
[08:51] <shadeslayer> ahhh
[08:51] <shadeslayer> I didn't know that
[08:52] <shadeslayer> okay, anyway, don't need one now
[08:52] <shadeslayer> I was trying to figure out UTAH
[08:52] <Riddell> UTAH?
[08:53] <shadeslayer> Ubuntu Testing Automated Harness
[08:53] <shadeslayer> I think ...
[08:55] <Peace-> guys i ahve asked to krita devs and they said that it's the plasmoid that has a bug
[08:55] <Peace-> and it's the widget menu bar
[08:55] <Peace-> it doesn't work properly with krita sometimes
[08:56] <Peace-> Riddell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zafY8ZbBoE  bug of krita and menu bar
[08:59] <shadeslayer> Riddell: btw I think you forgot to bzr add some files while merging, I fixed those
[09:00] <shadeslayer> for eg. in kiten
[09:02] <apachelogger> agateau: who maintains menubar?
[09:09] <apachelogger> :@
[09:09] <apachelogger> locale setting is not working
[09:09] <apachelogger> as expected
[09:10] <apachelogger> Riddell: I really don't see how we'd correctly get from KDE l10n settings to linux locale setitings
[09:10] <apachelogger> they are just so different
[09:16] <Riddell> apachelogger: ug, why KDE why?!
[09:16] <apachelogger> KDE is too mighty
[09:16] <apachelogger> Linux is too dumb
[09:20] <apachelogger> yofel: oh, btw, someone at some point mentioned that the qt meta git repo tends to break because of their shitty CI
[09:21] <apachelogger> e.g. submodules hashes not existing
[09:21] <apachelogger> so I guess atomic packaging may be more sensible
[10:00] <jussi> apachelogger: ScottK shadeslayer et al, the flags are now correctly set
[10:00] <apachelogger> jussi: thank you
[10:00] <jussi> yw
[10:01] <Riddell> flags?
[10:03] <apachelogger> Riddell: channel flags... new council to be op, former council to not be op
[10:04] <shadeslayer> lthx
[10:04]  * shadeslayer checks
[10:04] <shadeslayer> jussi: * #kubuntu: You're not a channel operator
[10:04] <shadeslayer> :S
[10:05] <jussi> shadeslayer: /msg chanserv op #kubuntu
[10:05] <jussi> shadeslayer: /msg chanserv op #kubuntu shadeslayer
[10:05] <shadeslayer> so quassel is broken
[10:06] <jussi> !opguide
[10:06] <jussi> no....
[10:06] <shadeslayer> jussi: "Give op status" doesn't work :P
[10:06] <shadeslayer> I suppose it only works if you're currently op'd
[10:06] <jussi> shadeslayer: to give op status y.. yes
[10:07] <apachelogger> msg chanserv op #kubuntu-devel
[10:07] <apachelogger> u noob :P
[10:13] <agateau> apachelogger: maintainers of my former appmenu stuff is Cédric Bellegarde
[10:13] <agateau> apachelogger: gnumdk on irc
[10:32] <yofel> \o/
[10:33] <yofel> thanks jussi
[10:39] <apachelogger> oh a yofel
[10:40] <apachelogger> yofel: how should we handle recipes for neon kf5?
[10:40] <apachelogger> I was thinking ... if we have one big branch with all the packaging we could just as well drop the recipes in there
[10:40] <apachelogger> e.g. qtbase.cfg qtbase/ phonon4qt5.cfg phonon4qt5/
[10:41] <apachelogger> also how to do the recipe definition ...
[10:41] <apachelogger> we could have simple ruby modules as recipes (gives flexibility of writing arbitrary codez within the module)
[10:41] <apachelogger> or we could have simple shell modules (gives equal amounts of flexibility but since the builder is ruby ... :P)
[10:42] <apachelogger> or we could have string markup like launchpad (le crap as it requires a parser for no good reason...)
[10:44] <apachelogger> or we could have some accepted information container format like json (would be between silly markup and raw code modules - having the flexibility but also not having to write code strictly speaking)
[10:44] <apachelogger> pick your poison please :P
[10:48] <yofel> putting the recipes with the packaging is fine with me.
[10:48] <yofel> As for the recipes, feel free to use ruby if you already wrote the rest in ruby. That can be turned into something shell-callable easy enough
[10:48] <apachelogger> generally it will work like this: builder creates/updates pbuilder -> executes builder, calling builder itself inside pbuilder -> pbuilded builder munches on recipes (pending decision on how that hsould happen) -> updates bzr/git cache -> merges in build directory -> bumps version -> pbuilder-satisfies deps -> builds src -> uploads [repeats for each package]
[10:48] <yofel> launchpad markup only makes sense with the parser from bzr dailydeb, and I don't quite get what you want to do with json
[10:49] <apachelogger> so... the envrionment the sources are built in is clean in general but not recreated for each source for performance reason
[10:50] <apachelogger> yofel: json being the more reasonable approach to the markup business
[10:50] <yofel> how do plan to update the bzr/git cache from inside pbuilder? (bind mount the cache dir?)
[10:50] <apachelogger> yes
[10:51] <apachelogger> builder.rb build/ cache/git/ cache/bzr/
[10:51] <apachelogger> @args = "--basetgz '#{BASE}/#{POCKET}.tar.xz' --compressprog xz --distribution #{POCKET} --extrapackages '#{EXTRAPKGS}' --bindmounts #{BASE}"
[10:51]  * yofel puts a note somewhere to learn ruby
[10:52] <apachelogger> eh, builder should be easy to read :P
[10:52] <apachelogger> mostly it's just a shell script using classes
[10:52] <apachelogger> http://paste.kde.org/757388/
[10:52] <yofel> I might want to do something else than reading every now and then :P
[10:53] <yofel> ah, looks easy enough indeed
[10:53] <apachelogger> 208 to 214 would be approximately what a package recipe would loook like
[10:54] <apachelogger> (less ugly, but you'd create your copy jobs to copy repos or arbitrary paths around)
[10:59] <yofel> looks reasonable enough to me
[11:03] <yofel> apachelogger: what might  be needed for KF5 would be a way to make a source depend on the same-day version of the previous tier uploads
[11:05] <apachelogger> yeah, variable substitution like in kde-l10n-common I'd say
[11:05] <yofel> right, something like that
[11:06] <apachelogger> just another job ;)
[11:08] <yofel> apachelogger: is the kf5 builder stuff in a branch somewhere?
[11:08] <apachelogger> nope
[11:09] <apachelogger> just save the paste as builder somewhere and run it :P
[11:09] <apachelogger> won't produce results though as stuff is commented out
[11:09] <yofel> lol, use gist then ^^
[11:09] <apachelogger> whatever that is :P
[11:10] <yofel> though you could just put it into the project-neon repo
[11:10] <apachelogger> first it needs to do something :P
[11:10] <yofel> never used gist.github.com?
[11:10] <apachelogger> no
[11:10] <apachelogger> I tend to not use github
[11:11] <apachelogger> (fortunately I need to for work reasons)
[11:11] <yofel> ah. imagine pastebin with git repo
[11:11] <apachelogger> what'd be the point of that?
[11:11] <apachelogger> I'd just put it in a repo
[11:11] <yofel> dunno, but people still use it ^^
[11:11] <apachelogger> silly people
[11:12] <apachelogger> or rather, browser people :P
[11:12] <apachelogger> supposedly diffing is the only useful thing
[11:33] <Riddell> apachelogger: so medibuntu decss on vlc server?
[11:34] <apachelogger> yes
[11:34] <markey> Riddell: so there seem to be serious issues with QtScript on Ubuntu. Amarok crashes left and right, and the BT is always deep in QtScript JIT code
[11:35] <markey> on Gentoo this doesn't seem to happen at all
[11:35] <markey> here is one bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=261839
[11:36] <markey> sometimes I can't even get it to start, when Resume Playback on Start is enabled
[11:36] <apachelogger> I spy different backtraces
[11:37] <Riddell> QtScript is some scary foo
[11:37] <apachelogger> and outdated Qt in the prominent ones
[11:37] <markey> yes it is
[11:37] <markey> apachelogger: check the last comment by me, it's a recent BT
[11:37] <markey> with Raring
[11:37] <apachelogger> it's also different from what the previous backtraces head
[11:38] <apachelogger> *had
[11:38] <markey> apachelogger: there are several different crashes, but all in QtScript
[11:38] <apachelogger> so?
[11:38] <markey> well, something is wrong with QtScript
[11:38] <markey> or with the QtScript bindings
[11:40] <apachelogger> *shrug*
[11:42] <Mamarok> shrugging is not nice, folks, really, this needs to be fixed
[11:42] <apachelogger> what needs to be fixed?
[11:43] <Mamarok> the Kubuntu QtScript package, as this is a very Kubuntu specific bug, can't be reproduced on other distros
[11:43] <apachelogger> there are 3 distinct crashes in that report.....
[11:43] <apachelogger> and the majority of them on an old Qt
[11:43] <Mamarok> apachelogger: don't look at the old stuff, only look at thre recent reports
[11:44] <Mamarok> markeyŝ backtraces are all recent
[11:44] <apachelogger> and incomplete
[11:46] <Mamarok> apachelogger: the new ones are not incomplete
[11:46] <Mamarok> again, look at the most recent backtraces
[11:46] <apachelogger> I am reasonable certain that amarok has more than one thread
[11:47] <Mamarok> what the heck are you talking about?
[11:47] <Mamarok> the relevant parts are there, stop being a dick
[11:47] <apachelogger> yeah
[11:47] <apachelogger> so here is the thing
[11:48] <apachelogger> if you want someone else to look at stuff
[11:48] <apachelogger> then you should provide all the information
[11:48] <apachelogger> right now I see a backtrace with one thread
[11:48] <Mamarok> markey: ^
[11:48] <apachelogger> and I happen to know that the qtscript jit shit had at least one crash in the past that was in fact thread related
[11:48] <apachelogger> so showing me one thread makes me go: "that backtrace aint complete" because it is not complete...
[11:49] <markey> here you go: http://paste.ubuntu.com/5729104/
[11:50] <apachelogger> markey: dpkg-query -l libqt4-script
[11:51] <markey> here's the output: http://pastie.org/8000126
[12:00] <soee> hiho, kde 4.10.4 is scheduled for this week >
[12:00] <soee> ?
[12:00] <apachelogger> markey: no failed assert?
[12:01] <Mamarok> soee: was this a statement or a question?
[12:02] <markey> apachelogger: no assert, nope
[12:02] <soee> Mamarok, the ? sign is the answer for your question :0
[12:02] <soee> :)
[12:03] <shadeslayer> soee: http://kyofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.4_saucy.html
[12:03] <shadeslayer> kdepim fails because of boost weirdness
[12:04] <soee> shadeslayer, so saucy first than backports ?
[12:04] <shadeslayer> yes
[12:04] <shadeslayer> files changed around quite a bit
[12:04] <shadeslayer> which is why I haven't uploaded for raring
[12:04] <soee> shadeslayer, ok thank you for the info
[12:04] <shadeslayer> fix saucy, then we won't have to fix raring, quantal and precise
[12:04] <soee> ;o
[12:04] <shadeslayer> s/fix/upload
[12:04] <shadeslayer> anyway
[12:05] <shadeslayer> -./usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/khangman-harmattan.png
[12:05] <shadeslayer> whut
[12:05] <apachelogger> -.-
[12:09] <shadeslayer> yofel: apparently ubuntu has had ddebs for some time
[12:09] <shadeslayer> http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/
[12:09] <shadeslayer> and soyuz will have ddebs soonish
[12:23] <apachelogger> markey: which scripts and applets do you have?
[12:23] <Peace-> apachelogger: do you know how to debug ksplashqml ?
[12:23] <apachelogger> debug?
[12:24] <apachelogger> amarok
[12:24] <Peace-> apachelogger: now to understand if it look well and if the code is good i am using the kcm module to test the theme
[12:24] <Peace-> isn't there another way ?
[12:25] <markey> apachelogger: "LyricWiki", "Cool-Streams", "LibriVox", "Free Music Charts"
[12:25] <shadeslayer> Riddell: want to take over 4.10.4 for saucy? I'm done for the day :)
[12:25] <markey> apachelogger: it's easy to reproduce when you enable "Resume Playback on Start"
[12:26] <apachelogger> markey: trying that
[12:26] <markey> and have it start playing stuff right away
[12:26] <apachelogger> so far no luck
[12:26] <Riddell> shadeslayer: mm can do, much more to do?
[12:26] <shadeslayer> not really
[12:26] <markey> I think this "Free Music Charts" script triggers  crashing a lot
[12:27] <apachelogger> markey: thing is... there was upstream breakage in a similar call chain which should not happen in 4.8.4
[12:27] <shadeslayer> just 3-4 packages + oxygen-icons and kajongg I think
[12:27] <shadeslayer> Riddell: http://kyofel.dyndns.org/kubuntu/build_status_4.10.4_saucy.html
[12:27] <apachelogger> markey: *** Error in `amarok': double free or corruption (!prev): 0x0000000000a55170 ***
[12:27] <apachelogger> on exit
[12:27] <markey> hm
[12:27] <markey> I don't get that on exit
[12:27] <apachelogger> markey: which applets do you have in teh context view?
[12:27] <shadeslayer> Riddell: it's not as bad as it looks on that page
[12:28] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: that's from pgst
[12:28] <markey> apachelogger: Current Track, Analyzer, Wikipedia, Lyrics
[12:28] <shadeslayer> well
[12:28] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: it only happens with pgst 1.0
[12:28] <shadeslayer> and hurray, you get that too
[12:28] <apachelogger> oh right, gstreamer
[12:28] <markey> yep
[12:28] <markey> pGST
[12:28] <shadeslayer> haven't been able to debug that
[12:28] <apachelogger> whatwhatwhat
[12:28] <apachelogger> markey: you are on pgst1?
[12:28] <apachelogger> ah
[12:28] <markey> apachelogger: using default from Raring
[12:28] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the double free you mean?
[12:29] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yes
[12:29] <apachelogger> kk
[12:32] <apachelogger> markey: got it
[12:33] <yofel> shadeslayer: saucy has nothing to do with raring, backports aren't SRU-able. You need to re-run the script once .3 is in -updates
[12:33] <markey> apachelogger: got a crash?
[12:33] <apachelogger> yes
[12:33] <markey> ok
[12:33] <apachelogger> http://wstaw.org/m/2013/06/03/plasma-desktopyY2118.png
[12:33] <apachelogger> also that
[12:34] <markey> Oo
[12:34] <markey> what's that?
[12:34] <shadeslayer> lol
[12:34] <yofel> shadeslayer: and what about ddebs? Those have existed since the age of time
[12:34] <shadeslayer> yofel: oh, I wasn't aware of them :S
[12:34] <apachelogger> markey: my context view
[12:34] <shadeslayer> I thought they were still not implemented
[12:35] <yofel> shadeslayer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash
[12:35] <shadeslayer> isn't that dbgsym?
[12:35] <shadeslayer> wait
[12:35] <shadeslayer> I'm confused now
[12:35] <yofel> shadeslayer: that's the same damn thing
[12:35] <shadeslayer> whoopsie
[12:35] <apachelogger> lol
[12:35] <yofel> packagename is -dbgsym, file extension is .ddeb
[12:35] <shadeslayer> for some reason I thought ddebs meant delta debs :/
[12:36] <yofel> ^^
[12:36] <apachelogger> they aren't debs if they are delta -.-
[12:37] <apachelogger> markey: I think ben is on to something
[12:37] <apachelogger> 2.7 does not crash
[12:37] <markey> apachelogger: no, actually I looked into that. it's not related to that code
[12:38] <apachelogger> it still does not crash with 2.7
[12:38] <markey> I doubt that
[12:38] <markey> also consider: on Gentoo it never crashes with QtScript
[12:38] <markey> I find that odd
[12:39] <apachelogger> that means nothing for qtscript
[12:39] <apachelogger> it's highly dependent on platform/compiler/flags
[12:39] <markey> true
[12:39] <apachelogger> the crash I was talkign about earlier with the same backtrace was such a thing.. it would crash only on amd64 because of platform specifics
[12:40] <markey> apachelogger: how about trying to disable the JIT?
[12:40] <markey> maybe that could fix it
[12:41] <apachelogger> no
[12:41] <apachelogger> that would work around it
[12:41] <apachelogger> anyway
[12:42] <apachelogger> it does not crash with 2.7.0
[12:42] <apachelogger> so I suspect a change in master screwed with it somehow
[12:51] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[12:55] <soee> someone using 13.04 on laptop ?
[12:55] <yofel> soee: me
[12:55] <soee> yofel, can you boot system and leave it for night and next day check how kded4 behaves ?
[12:56] <yofel> soee: the system has been running for 2 days now and nothing unusual so far (neither the week it had been running before that)
[12:57] <soee> for me if i do such thing or im using laptop for few hours kded4 starts to eat whole free memory and i have to reboot to be able to use it
[12:58] <soee> after whole night when i checked in the morning it was using > 2GB ram
[12:58] <soee> so then system stops to response or do it very slooow
[12:58] <yofel> hm... you can unload kded modules over dbus somehow I believe. Maybe that could help with debugging.
[12:58] <soee> the only option is to kill kded4 when im starting my work on lap
[13:06] <shadeslayer> yofel: unloadModule
[13:07] <yofel> shadeslayer: explain that to soee, I forgot the exact invocation
[13:07] <shadeslayer> qdbus org.kde.kded /kded org.kde.kded.unloadModule moduleName
[13:08] <shadeslayer> qdbus org.kde.kded /kded org.kde.kded.loadedModules   will give you all the loaded modules
[13:08] <markey> apachelogger: ok here's the deal. I'll set my git to 2.7.0 tag and try with it. we'll see
[13:08] <markey> easy enough
[13:09] <yofel> shadeslayer: thanks!
[13:09] <shadeslayer> np
[13:09] <yofel> soee: for reference: the modules I have in use: http://paste.kde.org/757436
[13:09] <rdieter> soee: saw mention of kded mem usage, may want to look @ https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=271934  (which is apparently some odd interaction between kauth and cron jobs)
[13:11] <soee> rdieter, yes this might be my case
[13:11] <soee> they mentioned it happens on old HP devices
[13:12] <soee> and im using old dv5
[13:26] <markey> apachelogger: ok, I'm running 2.7.0 now, it crashes as well :(
[13:31] <markey> darn QtScript
[13:41] <apachelogger> why is it not crashing for me then Oo
[13:41] <apachelogger> markey: same bt?
[13:41] <markey> yep
[13:41] <markey> well
[13:42] <markey> let me get you a BT from that one
[13:42] <markey> it's coming from this Free Music Charts script
[13:43] <markey> it seems to crash a little less often. maybe only 1 in 5 startups
[13:43] <markey> that could be coincidence though
[13:43] <markey> apachelogger: http://pastie.org/8000533
[13:46] <apachelogger> markey: does it crash always for you?
[13:46] <apachelogger> because even with master it only crashes after a while or perhaps not at all (or I just didn't wait long enough)
[13:46] <markey> apachelogger: no, as I said. maybe 1 in 5 starts crashes
[13:46] <apachelogger> right
[13:46] <markey> sadly
[13:46] <apachelogger> race condition :P
[13:46] <markey> Heisenbug...
[13:46] <apachelogger> or reentrancy
[13:46] <apachelogger> weeh
[13:46] <markey> yes...
[13:47] <apachelogger> or still architecture specific memory crap
[13:47] <apachelogger> #12 Phonon::Gstreamer::Pipeline::cb_error (bus=<optimized out>, gstMessage=0x7f2159a92ca0, data=0x25c6a90) at ../../gstreamer/pipeline.cpp:486
[13:47] <apachelogger> it's curious that pgst would get the error callback still
[13:48] <apachelogger> so I guess I'll put my money on memory crap for the time being
[13:48] <markey> bug in QtScript you mean?
[13:49] <apachelogger> could be that something messes up the heap and gstreamer goes "fu" and then jit goes "fu, I am dead"
[13:49] <apachelogger> markey: for example
[13:49] <apachelogger> I mean it would be a bug in qtscript anyway
[13:49] <markey> this is a nightmare :(
[13:49] <apachelogger> yes
[13:49] <apachelogger> markey: talk to #qt people maybe
[13:51] <apachelogger> markey: tell them we have http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/qt/view/head:/debian/patches/kubuntu_38_revert_fix_jit_crash.diff
[13:51] <apachelogger> albeit that patch should have fixed this trace
[14:18] <rdieter> apachelogger (and markey): i dont think that revert/patch is needed or desirable in 4.8.4 anymore (the original 4.8.3 qtscript problem was fixed in a small followup, see https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-27322 and https://codereview.qt-project.org/#change,37896 which should be included in 4.8.4)
[14:18] <rdieter> unless that reversion is something different, in which case, ignore me and carry on
[14:18] <apachelogger> yeah, no one ever figured out if it was in 4.8.4
[14:19] <rdieter> by reverting that, you may be seeing the original QTBUG-23871
[14:22] <apachelogger> yofel: ^
[14:24] <markey> is this related to the Amarok crashes?
[14:24] <markey> hmmm
[14:25] <markey> it might be, I think
[14:27] <mck182> shadeslayer Riddell: my upgrade using muon is stuck on "Waiting for configuration file" for about an hour now...can I just kill it?
[14:27] <yofel> apachelogger: hm?
[14:27] <shadeslayer> :S
[14:28] <shadeslayer> mck182: attach gdb and check the backtrace ?
[14:28] <apachelogger> mck182: wait for JontheEchidna to tell you how to debug it ^^
[14:28] <shadeslayer> yeah ^^
[14:28] <JontheEchidna> it should be telling you about a difference in an /etc/conf file on the frontend
[14:29] <mck182> JontheEchidna: nope, no such dialog anywhere on my desktop
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> :(
[14:29] <mck182> unless it's really cleverly hiding
[14:29] <JontheEchidna> that's pretty weird, since the frontend did catch that it's supposed to be prompting. I'll have to play around with that I suppose.
[14:30] <mck182> JontheEchidna: what do I do?
[14:30] <markey> yofel: see what rdieter wrote above, regarding QTBUG-23871
[14:30] <apachelogger>         load file
[14:30] <apachelogger>         populate(self)
[14:30] <agateau> JontheEchidna: could it be interesting to look at the process tree?
[14:30] <apachelogger> ruby is really creepy at times
[14:30]  * mck182 looks
[14:30] <agateau> JontheEchidna: to see if apt is stuck at some command line front end
[14:31] <JontheEchidna> It's waiting on Muon to present a "do you want to replace this conf file that you've changed with the updated one from the package" dialog, but Muon's not doing it, even though it knows it should
[14:31] <mck182> well, there's qaptworker with qthread/dpkg as a child
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> I've not found a good way to test conf file replacement, due to it requiring a package update to change a conf file
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> so it's possible that there are bugs like this I guess....
[14:32] <agateau> JontheEchidna: I like how you talk about Muon as if it was a stuborn child :)
[14:32] <mck182> btw. probably the most stupid plasma bug ever - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/6761102/recorditnow_tmp.mp4 - two screens, trying to unmount my disk, no clicking involved
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> haha, it kind of is in some ways :P
[14:33] <mck182> JontheEchidna: so...what should I do with it?
[14:34] <JontheEchidna> mck182: you'll have to kill muon and qaptworker, run "sudo dpkg --configure -a" and run another upgrade
[14:34] <apachelogger> ohhh
[14:34] <mck182> oh well
[14:34] <agateau> mck182: awesome!
[14:34] <apachelogger> yofel: /opt/project-neon/share/project-neon/pkg-project-neon.mk
[14:34] <mck182> agateau: it is!
[14:34] <apachelogger> yofel: fiddeling the buildsystem will be fun
[14:35] <apachelogger> started that 3 weeks ago, gave up after 300 replaces of /opt/project-neon for /opt/project-neon-kf5 :S
[14:35] <yofel> apachelogger: looking at qt
[14:35] <mck182> agateau: until you want to actualy unmount the drive
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> mck182: so this is with the updater frontend?
[14:35] <apachelogger> yofel: groovy
[14:35] <mck182> JontheEchidna: I guess...?
[14:35] <apachelogger> I am checking out for today anyway
[14:36] <agateau> mck182: this is what "sudo umount" is for :)
[14:36] <yofel> apachelogger: that's a symlink to ../0/project-neon.mk, you should be looking at that and default-settings.mk
[14:36] <mck182> JontheEchidna: I run muon and pressed full upgrade
[14:36] <apachelogger> yofel: there's much more
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> oh, so the Muon Package Manager
[14:36] <JontheEchidna> ok, thanks. I'll take a look at that today
[14:36] <mck182> yeah
[14:36] <mck182> anytime :)
[14:36] <apachelogger> you have like a bazillion lines of code just for the envrionment setup and build system and what not
[14:36] <apachelogger> really spooky
[14:36] <yofel> I know -_-"
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> oh, well that was stupid.
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> slots generally work better when connected to signals
[14:37] <apachelogger> anyway, my builder has runtime recipe inclusion working, so I'll fiddle a bit on error handling tomorrow
[14:37] <JontheEchidna> -_____-
[14:37] <apachelogger> we should be good to start packaging by the end of the week or so I hope
[14:37] <yofel> apachelogger: changing the *directory* should be as easy as changing NEONDIR though
[14:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ololo
[14:38] <yofel> though it's not overridable currently
[14:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you should switch the worker to qt5 :P
[14:38] <JontheEchidna> I should
[14:38] <apachelogger> use &slot notation
[14:38] <apachelogger> yofel: nah it's hardcoded all over the place
[14:38] <JontheEchidna> this is why I dislike dynamic compilation, for exactly reasons like this
[14:38] <apachelogger> and those need manual review making it a bit of a drag
[14:39] <yofel> apachelogger: it's hardcoded in *some* places, most of which should be fixed
[14:39] <apachelogger> our definitions of some seem diverge :P
[14:39] <apachelogger> but yeah, the pn macro magic should be the least of our show stoppers
[14:40] <mck182> JontheEchidna: probably not your area of expertise anymore, but running that dpkg... gave me "Error! Bad return status for module build on kernel: 3.8.0-23-generic (x86_64)
[14:40] <mck182> "
[14:40] <mck182> oh and "ImportError: No module named apport
[14:40] <mck182> "
[14:41] <JontheEchidna> mck182: is that for the virtualbox kernel module or something?
[14:41] <apachelogger> afiestas_: bug 1182272 ... does that also require a bluedevil update?
[14:41] <yofel> apachelogger: counting only the build system, I see 3 wrong hardcoded paths. Possibly 4.
[14:41] <yofel> the environment setup is a bit messy though indeed
[14:42]  * yofel needs to read up on deferred variable definition in make again...
[14:42] <mck182> JontheEchidna: dunno, this is all I see http://paste.kde.org/757478/
[14:42] <apachelogger> it's problematic anyway for the setup ... to reliably include a global definition you'd still need to hardcode the path all over the place
[14:43] <apachelogger> (not one of bash's most enjoyable attributes)
[14:43] <mck182> JontheEchidna: oh it's nvidia
[14:43] <mck182> oh boy
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> ah
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> hmm, yeah. I'm not really familiar with dkms stuff
[14:44] <apachelogger> mck182: what does /var/lib/dkms/nvidia/313.18/build/make.log say?
[14:44] <mck182> but I use packaged drivers! :(
[14:44] <mck182> apachelogger: *** Unable to determine the target kernel version. ***
[14:45] <mck182> and DKMS make.log for nvidia-313.18 for kernel 3.8.0-23-generic (x86_64)
[14:45] <apachelogger> lol
[14:45] <mck182> yeah
[14:45] <apachelogger> mck182: #ubuntu may be able to help
[14:45] <apachelogger> actually
[14:47] <apachelogger> yofel: http://paste.kde.org/757484/ what a recipe would contain right now
[14:47] <apachelogger> though the bzrcache would go away with the grand unified packaging repo
[14:47] <shadeslayer> what does teach you ? dont buy crap hardware ...
[14:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: hm?
[14:48] <shadeslayer> that was aimed at Martin
[14:49] <mck182> I think the hardware is just fine, thank you very much :P
[14:49] <apachelogger> yeah
[14:49] <apachelogger> the hardware is not crap
[14:49] <apachelogger> the company is :P
[14:49] <mck182> that it is, yeah :D
[14:50] <apachelogger> we ahve too many untriaged bugs -.-
[14:50] <mck182> JontheEchidna: is there a plan to put "reinstall" in muon?
[14:50] <apachelogger> also I get too many mails
[14:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 1018952
[14:52] <apachelogger> and then there is bug 668748 which d_ed was supposed to fix :S
[14:52] <apachelogger> nothing interesting on the board otherwise
[14:52]  * apachelogger scuttles off to dinner and checks out for today
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> lol, bug 1181120
[14:55] <yofel> meh, I have no qt clone lying around :S
[15:06] <yofel> apachelogger, markey: dropping that qt patch looks like the right thing to do indeed. I'll remove it from saucy. I'll make a PPA package for raring later
[15:32] <afiestas_> apachelogger: nope
[15:48] <markey> yofel: great, thanks! let me know when the package for Raring is available, then I'll test it with Amarok
[15:48] <markey> fingers crossed that it fixes the crashes
[15:51] <jessie> vHanda: Any news on my Nepomuk? I miss it already. Email searching without it sucks terribly.
[15:51] <vHanda> no, I'm sorry, I still haven't looked at it
[15:51] <vHanda> let me put it on my todo list
[15:52] <Peace-> apachelogger: the default splash scree on kubuntu it's the default one of kde?
[15:52] <jessie> Thanks. I do appreciate it.
[15:52] <Peace-> apachelogger: i did this one :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfTeLXFmQZ4
[15:53] <Riddell> Peace-: yep, all our artwork is from KDE
[15:54] <Peace-> Riddell: oh thanks
[16:46] <palasso> ahoneybun, I didn't forget abt trello but idk if I'll be able to contribute on the next months (I don't have much free time those days) so idk if I should be on trello
[16:53] <markey> how could I enable EGL with my Intel driver? need to test something
[17:31] <lordievader> Does Kubuntu participate in the Candence Weeks?
[17:44] <yofel> lordievader: no(t so far)
[17:44] <lordievader> Hmm, too bad (I think).
[17:54] <yofel> lordievader: well, ubuntu does continous testing and no alphas. We rather stick to focused alpha testing when we have KDE releases, esp. with the amount of testers we have
[17:54] <lordievader> Ah I see. Ok :)
[17:55] <yofel> lordievader: it'll only get interesting in 9 days anyway, that's 4.11b1 release
[17:55] <yofel> though packaging will take a while
[17:56] <lordievader> yofel: That is about the time of Candence Week 1, that starts the 15th.
[17:56] <lordievader> I guess the testers will get pinged to test 4.11b1? (Or will that be later in the KDE release cycle?)
[17:57] <yofel> alpha1 is 20th, and one week for packaging is already ambitious
[17:58] <yofel> lordievader: you'll get pinged
[17:58] <lordievader> Yaayyy :D
[18:32] <palasso> ahoneybun, https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/KubuntuDocs/Software/Internet#Opera Opera is not on the repos. Prior steps are required for this to work (adding a repo having package 'opera'). Also since this documentation is targeted towards newcomers should the Muon Software Center solution be suggested instead of Muon Package Manager (same in Chromium). Finally should Chromium be ordered on top of Opera since it's more well known a
[18:32] <palasso> nd has a larger userbase?
[18:45] <ahoneybun> palasso: just keep that thought in mind and we will make them awesome, and I moved MSC above MPM
[18:47] <ahoneybun> palasso: yea chromium should be on top, if opera is not in the default repos then remove it
[18:47] <palasso> ok I'll do those changes
[18:48] <palasso> "Open the 'Muon Package Manger', then search for 'chromium-browser'. " May I replace it with "Open the 'Muon Software Center', then search for 'chromium-browser'. "
[18:48] <ahoneybun> yes
[18:51] <ahoneybun> palasso: good work :)
[18:52] <palasso> thnx
[18:56] <ahoneybun> palasso: whatever time you can give is great
[18:58] <palasso> ahoneybun, sure ;)
[19:05] <ahoneybun> palasso: you can just use trello to keep track of the work
[19:42] <ahoneybun> palasso: very good changes
[20:11] <ahoneybun> howdy people
[21:27]  * yofel notes that he overwrote *someone's* kdepim .4 upload for saucy in the ninja ppa
[21:27] <yofel> please commit the changes to bzr when uploading otherwise I notice that too late
[21:56] <jessie> ^ Always push changes to the source control.