[07:51] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:51] <MartijnVdS> moo!
[07:51] <MooDoo> :)
[07:52] <diplo> Morning all
[07:54] <diplo> hah AlanBell, just saw your myysql query comment, bad code or mounted the db's in memory now ?
[08:15] <BigRedS> indexes!
[08:19] <MooDoo> bless you ;)
[08:19] <MartijnVdS> PostgreSQL ;)
[08:28] <AlanBell> diplo: changing the query to not have subqueries in it
[08:28] <AlanBell> so it can use the indexes as far as I can tell
[08:29] <AlanBell> http://pastebin.com/GADK2DQk is what it looked like
[08:32] <AlanBell> the problem was the two bits like this: (SELECT vtiger_account.* FROM vtiger_account INNER JOIN vtiger_crmentity ON vtiger_crmentity.crmid=vtiger_account.accountid AND vtiger_crmentity.deleted=0) AS vtiger_account
[08:33] <AlanBell> which just replaces vtiger_account in the query with the content of vtiger_account without deleted items in it, I flattened this bit out so it isn't a subquery
[08:37] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:47] <mungbean> guys, is anyone runnign 3.5 kernel on 12.04?
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> Linux wolk 3.5.0-26-generic #42~precise1-Ubuntu SMP Mon Mar 11 22:17:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[08:48] <MartijnVdS> Apparently, I am 8-)
[08:48] <BigRedS> I'm running 3.5 on 12.10 if that helps
[08:48] <mungbean> how did you do it MartijnVdS ?
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: I installed 12.04.2 :)
[08:49] <mungbean> there's an askubuntu page but seems to be missing a certain detail
[08:49] <mungbean> yeah, i upgraded to 12.04.2 so no new kernel
[08:49] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: there's a way.. let me find it for you
[08:49] <mungbean> merci
[08:50] <MartijnVdS> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
[08:50] <mungbean> sudo apt-get install linux-generic-lts-quantal xserver-xorg-lts-quantal
[08:50] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[08:50] <mungbean> Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
[08:50] <mungbean> requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
[08:50] <mungbean> distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
[08:50] <mungbean> or been moved out of Incoming.
[08:50] <bigcalm> My Bytemark VPS is running 12.04.2 but the kernel is stuck at 3.2 I think because they use KVM
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nah, it's because you haven't upgraded to BigV yet :)
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://bigv.io/ = bytemark's new vps platform
[08:51] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: you think I have money for BigV?
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (I switched last weekend)
[08:51] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: A single VM on BigV costs the same as on the regular platform :)
[08:51] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh, I actually never looked at the prices :D
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: you might need to enable the "updates" repository in sources.list
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: but I'm not sure
[08:52] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: what was the move like?
[08:52] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: do they do everything for you and you get to keep your current IP address?
[08:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no, and no
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I made a new VM, rsync'ed /home, installed apache (and copied the config over)
[08:53] <bigcalm> Ug
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: then fixed DNS and asked them to disable the old VM
[08:53] <MartijnVdS> took me about an hour
[08:53] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: had a problem with lib-mesa-glx
[08:53] <mungbean> have to install a quantal version
[08:53] <mungbean> if you don't hear from my, it's cos my machine is shagged
[08:54] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: that's not in the LTS stack is it?
[08:54] <MooDoo> mungbean: shagged, is that a technical term ;)
[08:54] <mungbean> udo apt-get install   libgl1-mesa-glx-lts-quantal
[08:54] <mungbean> is required
[08:56] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: thanks for the pointer, I'll consider it when I don't have a head full of bees
[08:56] <mungbean> http://i.eho.st/pgnxf8lp.gif
[08:57] <mungbean> relevant bigcalm
[08:57] <bigcalm> mungbean: love that gif
[08:58] <mungbean> recommended viewing 10x per month
[08:58] <bigcalm> And Nicholas Cage version of Wicker Man
[08:58] <mungbean> someone put a lot of work in, and it paid off
[09:00] <jacobw> Morning
[09:05] <mungbean> does df
[09:05] <mungbean> df
[09:06] <mungbean> woops sorry
[09:08] <mungbean> ok now on 3.5
[09:09] <mungbean> scary as i saw loads of important libraries removed ..then i noticed they were 9386 ones
[09:09] <mungbean> i386
[09:10] <mungbean> suspend now works again \o/
[09:13] <JamesTait> Good morning, and happy Barbershop Quartet Day! http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9DE5C985C6ECE35B
[09:14] <bigcalm> Silly: http://rrrrrrrroll.tumblr.com/
[09:15] <j0sh_> hey guys, using my ssh config like Host * !spring.mydomain.net with ProxyCommand to as I want to proxy all my ssh connections through a gateway
[09:15] <j0sh_> but i dont want to proxy any ssh connections to github
[09:15] <j0sh_> how could I do this?
[09:15] <j0sh_> Host * "!spring.mydomain.net,*.github.com"
[09:15] <j0sh_> doesnt work
[09:16] <directhex> JamesTait, have a barbershop quartet, whilst still remaining relevant to my interests as a gamer! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4coaEB4tabU
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> j0sh_: define *.github.com and "spring.mydomain.net" first
[09:16] <MartijnVdS> then * won't match them
[09:17] <j0sh_> I thought that...but it does
[09:17] <j0sh_> I have put github above * in myconfig
[09:17] <j0sh_> but * still seems to get applied
[09:17] <SuperMatt> ok, silly question... is there a way I can make apt forget what's marked for upgrade?
[09:17] <JamesTait> directhex, I happen to really like that song, too. :)
[09:17] <popey> morning
[09:17]  * popey has moved to mother in laws house today, vm connection has been down since 2am, projected fixed by 4pm
[09:17] <SuperMatt> I'm not talking about holding, just meaning that I have to force an update first
[09:18] <SuperMatt> I say force, I mean perform
[09:23] <bigcalm> popey: it's always a 4pm projection, just the day varies. Hope they sort themselves out soon
[09:24] <bigcalm> popey: same router as me, you could use your phone's 3g connection and share it across your LAN :)
[09:26] <popey> No, i wouldn't do that
[09:26] <popey> it would cost me very quickly
[09:26] <mungbean> i hope you took flowers
[09:29] <popey> oh, and fun last night while debugging stuff. my disk filled up - 55GB log file in /var/log
[09:29] <popey> that was _fun_
[09:30] <SuperMatt> /o\
[09:30] <mungbean> anyone know why youtube-dl might refuse to download a video that is watchable on youtube?
[09:30] <cliftonts> Hi everyone. I've got a bit of a challenge for you all.  I'm running 13.04 and unity has just crashed and I'm in the middle of running something I can't quit.
[09:30] <jacobw> cliftonts: don't quit it ;)
[09:30] <cliftonts> Does anyone know of any gui I could install and switch to without logging out?
[09:31] <cliftonts> gnome shell won't let me, it comes up with some sort of authentication error
[09:31] <popey> you can restart unity
[09:31] <popey> alt-f2, unity, enter
[09:31] <cliftonts> unity just seg faults
[09:32] <popey> well thats a bit of a worry
[09:32] <cliftonts> I can't alt-f2 without unity though
[09:32] <popey> we should fix that
[09:32] <popey> ctrl+alt+t should open a terminal
[09:32] <popey> you're right, sorry
[09:32] <AlanBell> ctrl+alt+f1 login, unity
[09:32] <cliftonts> Bare in mind I have something running in a terminal window. I don't want to lose 15+ hours work
[09:33] <popey> open another terminal
[09:33] <popey> and leave that one running
[09:33] <cliftonts> AlanBell, unity is not in a workable state
[09:33] <popey> I'd like to see why its not working
[09:33] <popey> I have a suspicion why
[09:33] <popey> if you have pastebinit installed, can you pastebin your ~/.xsession-errors
[09:34] <cliftonts> popey: I can use one window at a time, can't Alt-Tab. Yes I can load a second terminal and had to do so in order to load xchat
[09:34] <popey> pastebinit .xsession-errors
[09:34] <popey> like that
[09:34] <popey> you can move windows about using alt+mouse
[09:34] <mungbean> ah, fixed my own problem with youtube-dl -U
[09:34] <cliftonts> popey, I have no window management capability at all, without quitting xchat you guys is all I've got
[09:34] <popey> also, in a new terminal window, run "compiz --replace --debug ccp &"
[09:35] <popey> cliftonts: ctrl+alt+t should bring a new window up on top of xchat
[09:35] <cliftonts> popey: I could do that, but have no real way to get the output of it to you
[09:35] <popey> yes, you do. pastebinit
[09:35] <popey> compiz --replace --debug ccp | pastebinit
[09:37] <cliftonts> what is pastebinit? It didn't seem to do anything. And now I have the terminal window that owns xchat stuck in my way
[09:38] <popey> you should be able to move windows about by holding alt, clicking on them and moving them?
[09:38] <cliftonts> nope
[09:38] <bigcalm> I <3 alt moving. Wish all OSes did that
[09:38] <popey> ok, you can do as AlanBell suggests...
[09:38] <popey> ctrl+alt+F1, to move to the first tty, login..
[09:38] <popey> then sudo apt-get install pastebinit
[09:39] <popey> then you can compiz --replace --debug ccp | pastebinit
[09:39] <cliftonts> I have installed it and this is the output
[09:39] <cliftonts> You are trying to send an empty document, exiting.
[09:39] <popey> so we can see what's causing compiz / unity to fail to load
[09:39] <popey> hmm, okay
[09:39] <popey> try without the | pastebinit
[09:39] <popey> and see what errors you see
[09:39] <popey> any errors about libraries or somesuch
[09:39] <cliftonts> I'm looking at them now, they came up on screen anyway
[09:39] <popey> excellent
[09:39] <cliftonts> compiz (core) - Debug: dlopen failed: /home/gareth/.compiz-1/plugins/libunityshell.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[09:40] <popey> thats cool
[09:40] <popey> the next line?
[09:40] <cliftonts> compiz (core) - Debug: Trying to load unityshell from: /usr/lib/compiz/libunityshell.so
[09:40] <popey> ok, did that work or is the next line an error?
[09:40] <cliftonts> compiz (core) - Debug: dlopen failed: /usr/lib/libunity-core-6.0.so.5: undefined symbol: unity_protocol_music_preview_pause_uri
[09:40] <popey> excellent!
[09:40] <popey> I know the fix for this
[09:40] <cliftonts> that's a start lol
[09:41] <popey> ok, in the terminal do this:-
[09:41] <cliftonts> is it something I can do with window decorations tied behind my back?
[09:41] <popey> sudo apt-get update
[09:41] <popey> yes
[09:41] <cliftonts> updating
[09:42] <popey> sudo apt-get install libunity9/raring
[09:42] <popey> see if that tries to downgrade or otherwise change the version of libunity9 you have installed
[09:42] <cliftonts> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[09:43] <popey> apt-cache policy libunity9
[09:43] <popey> what version is next to "Installed" ?
[09:44] <cliftonts> Selected version '6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1' (Ubuntu:13.04/raring [amd64]) for 'libunity9'
[09:45] <popey> thats not the output I would expect from apt-cache policy libunity9
[09:45] <cliftonts> sorry, my mistake
[09:45] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:45] <cliftonts> Installed: 6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1
[09:45] <popey>   Installed: 6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1
[09:45] <popey> same here..
[09:45] <popey> ok
[09:45] <popey> sudo apt-get install --fix-policy
[09:45] <cliftonts> I'm dying of man flu and it's starting to show
[09:45] <popey> ^^ do that
[09:45] <popey> sudo apt-get install lemsip
[09:46] <cliftonts> cryptsetup ecryptfs-utils keyutils libatm1 libecryptfs0 python-serial
[09:46] <cliftonts> being installed
[09:46] <popey> thats not much
[09:46] <popey> apt-cache policy unity
[09:46] <cliftonts> no, all looks very unrelated
[09:46] <popey> what version is installed?
[09:46] <popey>   Installed: 7.0.0daily13.04.10-0ubuntu1
[09:47] <cliftonts> Installed: 7.0.0daily13.04.10-0ubuntu1
[09:47] <cliftonts> hmm
[09:47] <popey> hmm
[09:47] <popey> sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[09:47] <popey> anything change?
[09:47] <cliftonts> already tried that
[09:48] <popey> ok, so, lets try the next thing
[09:48] <cliftonts> interestingly compiz --replace is no longer crashing, but it's stopped at loading unityshell
[09:48] <popey> did you by any chance enable the experimental ppa?
[09:48] <cliftonts> until I pushed a button
[09:49] <cliftonts> yes but that ppa just broke my dash completely so I got bored with looking at an empty page and removed it. I figured it would either fix it, or break it totally
[09:49] <cliftonts> I now know the answer
[09:49] <popey> ah good
[09:49] <popey> dpkg -l | grep experimental.certified
[09:49] <cliftonts> I figured I could just hop to gnome shell if that happened, I was wrong
[09:49] <popey> that will list packages which came from that ppa
[09:50] <cliftonts> a ha!
[09:50] <cliftonts> ii  libunity-protocol-private0:amd64                6.91.9daily13.04.09ubuntu.unity.experimental.certified-0ubuntu1 amd64
[09:50] <bigcalm> Goodness compiz is greedy. Never dipping below 73% CPU
[09:50] <popey> bingo
[09:50] <cliftonts> ii  unity-scope-gdocs                               0.8daily13.04.09ubuntu.unity.experimental.certified-0ubuntu1    all
[09:50] <popey> sudo apt-get install libunity-protocol-private0/raring
[09:51] <cliftonts> y
[09:51] <ali1234> bigcalm: rebooting usually fixes that for me
[09:51] <popey> or sudo apt-get install libunity-protocol-private0=6.90.2daily13.04.05-0ubuntu1
[09:51] <cliftonts> ali1234: rebooting wouldn't help the very important program I have been running for 15 hours
[09:51] <cliftonts> And we have lift off!!
[09:51] <ali1234> well another way to fix it is to revert to compiz 0.8
[09:51] <bigcalm> ali1234: with an i7 I don't really notice it much. Just the fan noise can be annoying
[09:52] <ali1234> if you need to reboot less often than twice a day that is
[09:52] <popey> cliftonts: once you remove all the experimental stuff you should be able to run unity and get a desktop back
[09:52] <cliftonts> Thanks popey. It would've been a major headache losing access to my laptop for days
[09:52] <popey> np
[09:53] <mungbean> bigcalm: i only get those issues with compiz. elementary/gala for example doesn't have that problem and stil has swishy effects
[09:53] <cliftonts> I've even got the dash back now. I don't need to have 3 million things pinned to the launcher any more!
[09:53] <ali1234> oh btw for future reference
[09:53] <ali1234> sudo apt-get install metacity gnome-panel
[09:53] <ali1234> killall -KILL unity && metacity &
[09:53] <cliftonts> Right then. I'm off to get some actual work done.
[09:53] <ali1234> oh and gnome-panel
[09:54] <cliftonts> gnome panel? that would've been an idea. Thanks ali
[09:54] <cliftonts> bye all
[09:54] <ali1234> if the display is completely unresponsive then you can run DISPLAY=:0 metacity && gnome-panel & from vt
[09:56] <bigcalm> 2nd time Spotify has frozen this morning. I don't think it likes compiz (or the other way around). Reboot time :(
[09:58] <ali1234> spotify freezes because it doesn't like pulseaudio
[09:58] <ali1234> compiz makes it shrink to a 10x10 window 1000 pixels past the right edge of the display
[09:58] <bigcalm> Takes out all mouse input. Only using alt to get to the hud can I type in 'exit' and get things going again
[09:59] <popey> not seen that with spotify
[09:59] <ali1234> well thats a new one on me too
[09:59] <bigcalm> I'm special :)
[10:00] <bigcalm> 11am already? Ug
[10:00] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:01] <davmor2> popey: so no virgin for you today then :(
[10:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap
[10:01] <davmor2> bigcalm: I make a good time gauge I guess :)
[10:01] <bigcalm> davmor2: ah, no. I just saw @big_ben_clock's tweet
[10:01] <bigcalm> Yes, I'm still following the clock
[10:02] <popey> davmor2: yeah, moved to inlaws house, they have vm too
[10:02] <bigcalm> davmor2: but good morning to you in any case
[10:03] <MooDoo> mornig davmor2
[10:14] <bigcalm> gwibber wakes up and I suddenly get a slew of OSD spam
[10:15] <Laney> one day I'll remember to use my tea strainer and not drink a cup full of bits
[10:16] <bigcalm> Laney: tea infusers ftw
[10:16] <Laney> yeah I have one of those somewhere
[10:16] <Laney> it's fiddly though, especially to top the pot up
[10:16]  * bigcalm skips off to make a cup of lapsang souchong
[10:16] <bigcalm> Ah, not really meant for pots
[10:17] <bigcalm> Hayley and me are a proper couple at last. We recently bought a tea cosy
[10:17] <Laney> i have a big ball thingy that you can put in there
[10:17] <Laney> fishing it out and adding more tea when it's wet though, nah thanks
[10:18] <Laney> my dad got me a tea cosy for my birthday last year :3
[10:18] <bigcalm> Never thought of adding more tea to an existing brew
[10:18] <bigcalm> Aww, you've a good dad there :)
[10:18] <Laney> yeah, extra spoon will get you another pot
[10:19]  * bigcalm remembers to rinse out the sulphuric acid from the kettle this time
[10:19] <Laney> O_O
[10:19] <mungbean> tasty
[10:20] <bigcalm> Main ingredient of descaler
[10:20] <davmor2> popey: personal question, so feel free to sad the second word is off,  Why would move to the inlaws?
[10:20] <popey> my internet connection is down
[10:20] <popey> theirs isnt
[10:21] <davmor2> popey: ah sorry I thought you meant you had moved there and their vm was down
[10:21] <Myrtti> bigcalm: vinegar. I buy it in big containers (10l) from asian shop
[10:23] <Myrtti> use as fabric conditioner for clothes that shouldnt be washed with normal one and kitchen/bathroom disinfectant/cleaner/delimescale
[10:24] <mungbean> you wash clothes in vinegar?
[10:24] <popey> davmor2: no because that would be silly, and you know I'm not silly ☻
[10:25] <Myrtti> of course I dont. nobody washes their clothes in fabric conditioner either
[10:25] <MooDoo> popey: not silly?  did you want me to dig out the extreame ironing photo ;)
[10:25] <davmor2> popey: I've seen you in a Hawaiian shirt and you have the nerve to say that :P
[10:25] <popey> noted
[10:25] <Myrtti> usually fabric conditioner is added to the water of the last rinse cycle of a wash
[10:26] <mungbean> conditioner is the last thing that gets put on the clothes though innit?
[10:26] <mungbean> so vinegar would be bit stinky
[10:26] <Myrtti> it evaporates.
[10:26] <popey> i dont think she puts a full litre in to the wash ☻
[10:27] <mungbean> i would be paranoid as vingar and BO have similar smell
[10:27] <Myrtti> doesnt leave any scent in the clothes. and the amounts are small.
[10:27] <Myrtti> not really
[10:30] <Myrtti> aw I forgot I promised Id go to.get a parcel from the post office... wonder where the cycle tyre pump is
[10:30] <Laney> you can borrow mine
[10:31] <Myrtti> dsample ordered a BusPirate
[10:32] <mardi> Thanks for the keyboard link popey - sadly a little pricey for an impulse purchase today - Rod
[10:32] <popey> hey mardi
[10:32] <popey> yeah, company bought mine
[10:32] <mardi> zero chance mine would for me
[10:32] <popey> (well, the company being the one I owned)
[10:32] <mardi> although my 1995 one, was company supplied - guess times change
[10:33] <mardi> I'm going to have a real problem,  the day you can no longer get laptop/keyboards with TrackPoint
[10:33] <popey> ditto, hence buying 3 ☻
[10:33] <mungbean> what's trackpoint? nipple mouse?
[10:34] <popey> yes
[10:34] <popey> this does make it easier when i come to renew laptop
[10:34] <mardi> I'm banking on me skipping over the whole trackpad fad and going straight to full touch/speech
[10:34] <mungbean> :-|
[10:35] <popey> oh there's another option for model m lovers
[10:35] <popey> unicomp do a model-m like with a trackpoint
[10:35] <popey> http://www.pckeyboard.com/
[10:36] <popey> might get one when I'm out there at the end of the month
[10:36] <mardi> Gave away my old M recently, now loving the DAS
[10:37] <mardi> my spacesaver is for KVM/Servers - looking like your version is a little bigger than I would like
[10:38] <mardi> My M4 spacesaver . http://www.clickykeyboards.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/10943/subcatid/0/id/236283
[10:38] <popey> thats nice
[10:39] <popey> the one thing i hate about tp keyboards is the back/forward buttons above left/right cursors
[10:39] <popey> quite insane
[10:40] <BigRedS> I *love* that
[10:40] <mardi> I'm really not liking the more recent Lenovo layout - http://techreport.com/r.x/2012_4_23_Future_ThinkPads_may_all_have_chiclet_keys/new-kbd.jpg
[10:41]  * mardi hates change
[10:41] <directhex> honestly, the key action is good on recent lenovo keyboards
[10:41] <mungbean> why do people hate chiclet keys?
[10:41] <popey> the fact it still has a middle mouse button is good
[10:41] <directhex> mungbean, because they're often dreadful
[10:42] <mungbean> they seem more hygeininc
[10:42] <BigRedS> I distrust them, but I've also never used thrm
[10:42] <popey> their new ones don't have middle button
[10:42] <directhex> razer's chiclet keyboard is absolute bong
[10:42] <directhex> it's a £125 piece of poo
[10:42] <mungbean> i like the idea of backlit keyboards
[10:42] <popey> i moaned at lenovo and they told me the touchpad had multiple buttons
[10:42] <popey> lies
[10:42] <BigRedS> but I dislike the idea of a lack of nipple or middle mouse button. I don't get along with trackpads
[10:42] <directhex> backlit is a must for me.
[10:42] <BigRedS> nah, thinklight!
[10:42] <directhex> thinklight is also bong
[10:43] <directhex> it's a moronic thing that only works at one exact screen tilt angle
[10:43] <directhex> thank $deity recent lenovo keyboards are backlit
[10:43] <directhex> i bought some new keyboards for the office yesterday from pc world
[10:43] <ali1234> "bong"
[10:43] <directhex> £60 a piece
[10:43] <ali1234> wat
[10:43] <mungbean> what do they do
[10:43] <mungbean> builtin trackpad?
[10:44] <popey> are they made of unobtanium?
[10:44] <directhex> mechanical
[10:44] <popey> steampubk?
[10:44] <directhex> nothing but cherry mx black switches. no membrane stuff
[10:44] <popey> s/b/n/
[10:45] <directhex> mechanical keyboards are the "in" thing in gamer keyboards these days. curiously enough, coming from the model m legacy
[10:45] <directhex> but without, y'know, being terrible keyboards
[10:45] <ali1234> model m would be good if it wasn;t so LOUD
[10:45] <ali1234> and also massive but i have a miniature one
[10:45] <BigRedS> yeah, I'm completely over model ms with my £18 cherry
[10:45] <BigRedS> it's perfectly nice to type on and I can afford to have one at each computer
[10:46] <mungbean> keyboard pr0n is overatted
[10:46] <BigRedS> I'm not sure if it's a good keyboard or I've just stopped caring
[10:46] <directhex> model m gets very confused by things like "typing". the key action is something people still like, but the actual matrix controller on a model m is dreadful
[10:46] <directhex> really dreadful
[10:46] <ali1234> model m is too mainstream these days
[10:46] <directhex> try the fox test on a model m
[10:46] <mungbean> i only notice terrible keyboards and painful ones
[10:46] <ali1234> yeah mine drops 's' 50% of the time and inserts 2 of them 25% of the time
[10:46] <ali1234> however i think this is because the capacitors inside it are dying
[10:46] <directhex> easy test for the quality of a keyboard's matrix scan and multiplexing: hold down both shift keys, and type the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
[10:47] <directhex> it's not a speed test, you can type it slowly
[10:47] <directhex> but on most keyboards, some keys will be missed
[10:47] <mungbean> worst kb i ever used in the eee pc 701
[10:47] <mungbean> often doesn't detect keypresses
[10:47] <directhex> because the keyboard scan matrix isn't physically cpable of reading both shift keys, plus some number of other keys, at once. e.g. on this lenovo, it can't do X
[10:47] <BigRedS> directhex: this does fairly badly at that, but has been fine everywhere else
[10:47] <directhex> HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
[10:48] <mungbean> i remember my acorn electron had a max mutplie key press
[10:48] <BigRedS> HE QUIK BROWN FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
[10:48] <mungbean> i thought things had moved on
[10:48] <directhex> mungbean, yes and no.
[10:48] <BigRedS> hah, identical
[10:48] <bigcalm> HE QUIK BRON FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG
[10:48] <BigRedS> oh, you bought some cherries, this is a cherry
[10:48] <directhex> mungbean, there's two things - a maximum number of simultaneous keypresses possible when using usb (even usb3), which is around 10 keys iirc
[10:49] <directhex> mungbean, and the keyboard scan matrix determines which specific combinations of keys are possible or not
[10:49] <ali1234> i lol at all your terrible keyboards
[10:49] <JamesTait> TEQUICKBRONOXUMSOVERTEAZYOG
[10:49] <directhex> BigRedS, almost all mechanical keyboards use cherry switches. the ones i bought were steelseries 6Gv2
[10:49] <directhex> which are mostly great, but gnome shell doesn't like them much
[10:49] <ali1234> why not?
[10:50] <BigRedS> gnome shell seems happy with mine
[10:50] <directhex> they don't have a left windows key. gnome shell by default only shows the launcher overlay thing on the left windows key. you can change it to the right windows key, but then you can't launch it with your laptop's left windows key
[10:51] <directhex> basically gnome shell only works with ONE launcher key, and dies if you have more than one
[10:51] <directhex> even if you change your keyboard map so the right windows key emits a left key scancode
[10:51] <BigRedS> oh! it doesn't like steelseries kbs. I'll get some coffee..
[10:51] <directhex> well, it doesn't like *any* right windows key. it just so happens that steelseries keyboards only have right, not left
[10:51] <ali1234> oh yeah that
[10:52] <directhex> this is primarily a failing of gnome shell, not of the keyboard
[10:52] <ali1234> heh, what isn't?
[10:53] <ali1234> what's the fastest way to compare strings against a wordlist in python?
[10:55] <popey> haha http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-04-11-microsoft-creative-director-adam-orth-no-longer-with-microsoft
[10:56] <directhex> i find that whole incident very stupid
[10:57] <popey> well indeed
[10:57] <mungbean> politics
[10:58] <ali1234> "#dealtwithit"
[10:58] <bigcalm> Doesn't everybody have their TVs and games consoles on remote power switches to save energy?
[10:59] <popey> i do now
[10:59] <popey> not my pvr tho ☻
[10:59] <popey> less for saving energy for me, more convenience
[10:59] <bigcalm> Only thing that is "always on" in the sitting room is the V+ box
[10:59] <popey> same here
[10:59]  * SuperMatt spies popey's new similie
[10:59] <bigcalm> Actually have the V+ box on a UPS :D
[10:59] <ali1234> wut
[10:59] <SuperMatt> how are you remembering all the commands for these things?
[10:59] <ali1234> they mean "always on the internet"
[11:00] <ali1234> not "always powered on"
[11:00] <popey> yes they do
[11:00] <bigcalm> If it's switched off at the mains, it's not on the internet
[11:00] <popey> he means during gaming
[11:00] <ali1234> you also can't play on it
[11:00] <popey> i.e. start game, it wants connection before starting
[11:00] <popey> see Simcity
[11:00] <bigcalm> Poo
[11:00] <popey> and minecraft
[11:01] <popey> the allegation being that the next xbox will enforce this
[11:01] <bigcalm> Silly
[11:01] <popey> works for much of steam tho
[11:01] <MartijnVdS> some blu-rays won't play without internet already
[11:01] <popey> wat
[11:02] <mungbean> wow
[11:02] <popey> and in 10 years when their auth servers are down?
[11:02] <mungbean> its bad enough having to watch a piracy ad on a dvd you have BOUGHT
[11:02] <popey> SuperMatt: i have macros that do it
[11:02] <SuperMatt> sneaky
[11:03] <mungbean> i'm still looking for a way to read zinio magazines outside the application
[11:03] <mungbean> i hate that its the popular one with lots of magz and you won't be able to keep them
[11:03] <SuperMatt> I don't mind requiring online auth for a game, as long as when the auth servers are taken down a patch is released to remove all auth
[11:03] <mungbean> this is EA
[11:04] <ali1234> typically that patch is released within a couple of days of the game being released
[11:04] <SuperMatt> very true
[11:04] <SuperMatt> worst company of the year
[11:05] <popey> \o/ lunchtime
[11:07] <ali1234> lol is anyone listening to radio 4?
[11:07] <ali1234> "it was the size of a 30cm ruler"
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: so.. about 30cm?
[11:07] <mungbean> can blackberry playbooks run android
[11:08] <davmor2> THE QUICK BROWN FO JUMPS OVER THE LAZY DOG
[11:08] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: THE LAZY DAWG?
[11:09] <davmor2> I have a Microsft Keyboard
[11:09] <SuperMatt> I will never give up on cherry
[11:09] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: have you tried turning off USB auto-powersave?
[11:09] <SuperMatt> their keyboards are the best
[11:10] <davmor2> Nope
[11:10] <SuperMatt> http://www.cherry.de/pictures/produkt/gal_2000_G86-22000_Expert_2_Aufs.jpg this is the one I have at home
[11:12] <SuperMatt> https://www.betamedia.com.au/main/product_images/uploaded_images/cherry-infinity-keyboard.jpg and this one at work
[11:12] <SuperMatt> the latter is nice and soft, which is great for work :)
[11:16] <ali1234> so in reference to my previous question, "{}.has_key(x)" is about 1 million times faster than "x in []"
[11:28] <ali1234> ah right i see. what i really want to do is put all the words in a set
[11:28] <ali1234> "x in set()" is as fast as the dictionary
[11:28] <mardi> Work Cherry looks very nice SuperMatt - does it work as good as it looks?
[11:31] <mungbean> 13.04 is looking very uneventful - are there any exciting improvements?
[11:31] <bigcalm> I'm guessing graphic driver support :)
[11:31] <bigcalm> Well, hoping more than guessing
[11:32] <SuperMatt> mardi: yes it does :)
[11:32] <SuperMatt> mungbean: I think most of it is under the hood
[11:32] <SuperMatt> it's considerably faster, and way more stable that previous releases
[11:33] <BigRedS> Oooh, mine was ridiculously crash-happy in january
[11:34] <SuperMatt> I've found it to be stable since about november
[11:34] <BigRedS> hmm. Might give it another go
[11:47] <bigcalm> Variety background changer has just put Emma Watson on my screen. It's rather distracting
[11:50] <bigcalm> LUNCH!
[11:52] <jacobw> Yes, lunch.
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> Lunge!
[12:06] <bigcalm> Huh. So using a client's VPN kicks me off real internet
[12:18] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: don't let it set the default route
[12:18] <mungbean> +1
[12:40] <popey> bug 1167906
[12:40] <popey> is that what you got AlanBell ?
[12:47] <AlanBell> bug #1166052
[12:47] <AlanBell> yes
[12:48] <popey> did it go backwards?
[12:49] <AlanBell> yes, to 2009
[12:50]  * popey marks dupe
[12:50] <popey> mine didnt go back that far
[12:50] <popey> only a few months
[12:52] <AlanBell> I think it was that far, it was very old some of it
[12:54] <AlanBell> "OK, so I don't get the point of microblogging with Identi.ca, so I wonder if Twitter will make more sense to me 140 characters just seems so" < my first tweet
[12:54] <shauno> it's probably a real number based on an api ceiling, and you're simply not as famous as popey :p
[13:01] <Myrtti> as far as I remember it was meant to fit an sms, and possibly the remaining letters for sending a location.
[13:02] <mungbean> AlanBell: used to have that error in gwibber years ago
[13:03] <mungbean> gwibber is the primary app on ubuntu i can confidently say sucks
[13:03] <AlanBell> friends-app appears to be making all the same errors as gwibber
[13:03] <mungbean> because they just did mv gwibber friends?
[13:04] <popey> no, its a rewrite
[13:04] <mungbean> all twitter apps are doomed to fail if twitter don't allow api calls
[13:04] <mungbean> ^lots of
[13:04] <mungbean> i remember when gwibber would only publish 30% of stuff
[13:04] <AlanBell> twitter do allow API calls, but you get maxed out on the number of users your app is allowed to have, if you have non-editable API keys
[13:04] <mungbean> cos fb was throttling them
[13:05] <mungbean> so basically if you use a twitter app, make sure its not successful
[13:05] <AlanBell> however, if you write an app, and tell users to register their own app keys then there is no limit at all
[13:05] <mungbean> ah ok
[13:05] <mungbean> could be an opitonal extra
[13:05] <ali1234> yes there is
[13:06] <popey> "wondering if it was wise to sign up to twitter again" was my first tweet after I signed up then closed then re-signed up again
[13:06] <mungbean> i check twitter once a day, and thats on my phone when the train is late or i'm early at the station
[13:06] <AlanBell> and you can use the streaming API for fast twitterness, but friends-app apears to be a poll and store thing like gwibber
[13:07] <ali1234> you can only pull about 5000 user profiles per hour
[13:08] <AlanBell> how does that matter?
[13:08] <ali1234> i dunno, how does anything on twitter matter ever?
[13:08] <AlanBell> fair point
[13:09] <marxjohnson> Best conversation ever.
[13:11] <Myrtti> for me Twitter discussions are so inane I've not participated in anything there for a year.
[13:11] <ali1234> actually pulling large numbers of user profiles is useful for finding out things such as "hulk hogan follows someone who follows john cleese who follows someone who follows popey"
[13:11] <ali1234> (which is a true fact)
[13:12] <mungbean> even direct messages on twitter are limited in characters
[13:13] <mungbean> my technology phobic friend uses twitter for email
[13:13] <AlanBell> they also fit in an SMS
[13:13] <mungbean> makes it tricky
[13:13] <ali1234> that's the point...
[13:13] <AlanBell> it is for people who are not literate enough for blogging
[13:13] <ali1234> it was originally supposed to be a SMS mailing list type service
[13:14] <mungbean> people who then forget that if they publish all their thougts , then other people might read them
[13:15] <Knightwise> hey everyone
[13:15] <Knightwise> small question , anyone know anything about owncloud ?
[13:15] <marxjohnson> I'm running it on my Microserver
[13:16] <Knightwise> marxjohnson: I just set one up using turnkey linux , but the thing is , i would like to move the https port from 443 to 1443
[13:16] <Knightwise> because my isp blocks all ports below 1024
[13:17] <marxjohnson> You'll need to fiddle with the apache config
[13:17] <Knightwise> ok , i got that open (the turnkey install comes with webmin too)
[13:18] <Knightwise> so when I look at the virtual servers I see one for owncloud running on port 433
[13:18] <Knightwise> i changed that to 4433
[13:18] <Knightwise> (thats the port I would like to use)
[13:18] <Knightwise> I restarded apache but it doesnt seem to work
[13:19] <marxjohnson> Is the turnkey appliance ubuntu-based?
[13:19] <Knightwise> even if I access it van http://ip.address.of.the.machine:4433
[13:19] <Knightwise> debian based
[13:19] <marxjohnson> ok, open /etc/apache2/apache.conf and search for "Listen"
[13:19] <Knightwise> standby
[13:20] <Knightwise> i got apache2.conf
[13:20] <Knightwise> i guess thats the same
[13:21] <marxjohnson> oops yeah that's what I meant :)
[13:21] <BigRedS> shouldn't it be in ports.conf?
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> probably
[13:22] <BigRedS> or ports
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> it works in apache.conf, but that includes port.conf
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> ports.conf?
[13:22] <Knightwise> yep , cuz there is no listen in apache2.conf
[13:22] <BigRedS>  /et<tab>apa<tab>por<tab>
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> so it's cleaner to do in ports.conf
[13:22] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: yes, that one :)
[13:22] <Knightwise> hold on i'll check ports.conf
[13:22] <Knightwise> got it
[13:22] <marxjohnson> yep it'll be ports.conf
[13:23] <Knightwise> still plenty of references to 443 here
[13:23] <marxjohnson> yeah change them to the port you want
[13:23] <Knightwise> i see listen 443 , do i change that one ?
[13:23] <marxjohnson> yep
[13:23] <BigRedS> you can see what the server thinks it's doing by running   apache2 -S
[13:23] <BigRedS> that parses the config, rather than asking the daemon, so wont tell you what to revert config to or anything
[13:23] <Knightwise> bad user name
[13:24] <BigRedS> export APACHE_RUN_USER=www-data; export APACHE_RUN_GROUP=www-data;
[13:24] <Knightwise> i'll restart apache first
[13:24] <BigRedS> stick that in /root/.bashrc or something
[13:25] <bigcalm> o.O
[13:26] <Knightwise> ok , i changed the ports
[13:26] <Knightwise> (also rebooted the machine)
[13:27] <Knightwise> ok the http link works
[13:27] <Knightwise> https does not
[13:29] <Knightwise> got it !
[13:29] <Knightwise> I needed to add an extra line below the listen command
[13:29] <ali1234> how can i override dns server for a single process?
[13:29] <Knightwise> in ports.conf i just added 'Listen 4433'
[13:37] <kvarley> Can anybody think of a way to do video chat over my LAN?
[13:37] <AlanBell> kvarley: conversat.io
[13:38] <BigRedS> kvarley: you'll also need to change the <VirtualHost> line if there is one
[13:38] <kvarley> AlanBell: Is this site open source?
[13:38] <AlanBell> yes
[13:39] <kvarley> AlanBell: This channel's topic is right :)
[13:40] <popey> http://conversat.io/ubuntu
[13:40] <popey> \o/ join us :D
[13:40] <popey> where us = me
[13:41] <SuperMatt> ok, serious question: now that Wubi has been dropped, obviously we want users to have a simple way of testing Ubuntu. Would it be wise to start suggesting that people try it in Virtualbox, and how hard would be it for the installer to maybe detect if it's running in virtual box, and install/enable the guest additions? Could we maybe start providing an iso or vbox file specifically designed for people wanting to test it?
[13:41] <popey> it already does that iirc
[13:41] <popey> it used to anyway
[13:41] <popey> i see an AlanBell on my screen
[13:42] <kvarley> SuperMatt: What about a packaged version of vbox that would auto boot the right iso, etc?
[13:42]  * AlanBell is on a conference call
[13:42] <SuperMatt> one tick then, lemme load the latest raring iso and see if vboxvideo runs
[13:42] <popey> ah hang on
[13:42] <popey> on a live cd it wont, because the driver isnt on the cd
[13:42] <SuperMatt> right
[13:43] <popey> you wont get the driver till after install
[13:43] <popey> no mention of virtualbox in the ubiquity source
[13:43] <popey> xnox probably knows
[13:43] <SuperMatt> I'm gonna test this out because I've constantly installed the vbox-guest-additions and put vboxvideo it /etc/modules
[13:43] <popey> maybe jockey does it post install
[13:43] <popey> you shouldn't need to do that
[13:44] <SuperMatt> ok, testing now ;
[13:44] <popey> AlanBell doesn't look comfortable
[13:44] <SuperMatt> ;)
[13:44] <davmor2> SuperMatt: there is a recommended way on the download page there is no reason why that won't work for windows 7 and earlier, a guide to dual booting
[13:45] <davmor2> popey: I need to stop putting drawing pins on chair really
[13:45] <davmor2> s/on/on his
[13:45] <kvarley> AlanBell & popey : I'm coming, downloading firefox nightly on my tablet now
[13:46]  * directhex moos
[13:48]  * MartijnVdS doos
[13:50] <bigcalm> ARGH, my ears
[13:50] <zleap> hello
[13:51]  * bigcalm forgets to turn down volume after video call
[13:51]  * bigcalm blames popey
[13:52] <zleap> ouch
[13:52] <popey> hah
[14:31] <SuperMatt> I don't think that the installer is installing the guest additions
[14:31] <SuperMatt> for starters, there is no virtualbox-guest-additions package
[14:32] <popey> virtualbox-guest-x11 is the package
[14:33] <SuperMatt> ok, I can see in additional drivers that I can install virtualbox-guest-dkms
[14:39] <popey> good stuff
[14:40] <SuperMatt> the only issue that I have with it is that VMs are PAINFULLY slow until you can install the drivers
[14:40] <popey> that pulls in virtualbox-guest-utils which pulls in virtualbox-guest-x11
[14:40] <popey> yes, it is due to LLVM being used
[14:41] <SuperMatt> indeed
[14:41] <SuperMatt> I just wonder if there's anything we can do to help out new users testing it out for the first time in a VM
[14:41] <SuperMatt> it's not a pleasant exerpience
[14:42] <zleap> you mean setting up virtual box isn't
[14:42] <zleap> or just getting it up and running in virtual box ?
[14:42] <SuperMatt> getting it running in vbox
[14:42] <zleap> ok
[14:43] <zleap> i am trying to install virtual box now
[14:43] <SuperMatt> it's been installing virtualbox-guest-dkms for 10 minutes now (from the additional drivers dialogue)
[14:44] <zleap> http://pastebin.com/ZJRmKS7J
[14:44] <zleap> during install it comes up with a fail on
[14:44] <zleap>  * Starting VirtualBox kernel modules                                            * No suitable module for running kernel found
[14:44] <zleap>                                                                          [fail]
[14:44] <zleap> invoke-rc.d: initscript virtualbox, action "restart" failed.
[14:44] <zleap> Processing triggers for ureadahead ...
[14:44] <zleap> Setting up virtualbox-dkms (4.1.18-dfsg-1ubuntu1.1) ...
[14:44] <zleap> full install messages above via pastebin
[14:47] <SuperMatt> yeesh, I think this is something that really needs fixing. Ideally an iso, or a vbox virtual disk, that ensures this stuff is installed by default :/
[14:48] <zleap> like this http://ubermix.org/download.html
[14:48] <zleap> they provide a virtual box imagfe or something to help users try it out
[14:49] <AlanBell> is raring working in virtualbox with unity now?
[14:49] <SuperMatt> it is... but it's taking its sweet time to install the drivers
[14:50] <zleap> i am not really sure if googledocs are the best way to distribute image files
[14:51] <SuperMatt> nope
[14:51] <zleap> yeah this is how they (or seem to be) distributing the ova file
[14:51] <zleap> i am sure just putting it on the server with info on how to wget it would be better
[14:52] <SuperMatt> well, no, becauase wget is a linux tool ;)
[14:52] <SuperMatt> I imagine they put it on google drive because it's cheap
[14:52] <zleap> yeah
[14:53] <zleap> maybe they should use bit-torrent then
[14:53] <zleap> or similar
[14:53] <SuperMatt> bit torrent is wonderful, until everyone stops seeding
[14:54] <zleap> ok there IS a page with other download options on
[14:54] <SuperMatt> for srs, google drive is probably the highest availability solution for the lowest price
[14:54] <popey> AlanBell: works here
[14:54] <popey> SuperMatt: we have iso images, people can put on usb sticks and test with
[14:54] <popey> we've always had that
[14:55] <zleap> there is always qemu
[14:55] <zleap> which can book iso files
[14:55] <SuperMatt> indeed
[14:55] <zleap> boot
[14:56] <zleap> so perhaps we need simple instructions for that
[14:56] <SuperMatt> I guess I just feel there's a hole that has been left by wubi
[14:57] <popey> it'll be way slower in qemu
[14:57] <Darael> In fairness, though, wubi always was kinda broken.  I mean, it did the job, but by its very nature it involved a bit of kludging.
[14:58] <SuperMatt> true true
[14:58] <zleap> thing is new users get put off if things don't work fully
[14:59] <zleap> i found a hardware info program the other week can't remember what it was called
[15:00] <zleap> basically it could give details of all the hardware on the system, (gui app)
[15:00] <Darael> lshw-gtk?
[15:00] <zleap> will have a look
[15:02] <zleap> Darael, that fits
[15:03] <zleap> what is needed is perhaps a one stop shop site for beginner testers / bug reporters that lets users know what tools are available to provide info to developers
[15:08] <mungbean> watching Threads. never seen it b4
[15:09] <mungbean> was too young, my parents wouldn't let me
[15:13] <zleap> too young for what ?
[15:14] <mungbean> too watch to watch it when it was shown on telly
[15:14] <popey> in fact a usb stick with Ubuntu pre-installed would be more ideal
[15:15] <popey> rather than an installer
[15:15] <popey> especially if it were usb3
[15:15] <popey> maybe optimised a bit to do fewer writes
[15:16] <AlanBell> that would be good, I am kinda hoping 14.04 will be distributed that way rather than DVD
[15:17] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/SSK-Drive-Transfer-Stylish-Retractable/dp/B005KDX0B8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365693425&sr=8-1&keywords=usb3+memory+stick
[15:17] <kvarley> The biggest stumbling block to users trying Ubuntu is using BIOS imo
[15:17] <kvarley> Since every BIOS system is different, so explaining over the phone is a pain
[15:17] <AlanBell> uefi now
[15:18] <kvarley> AlanBell: Is that any better? My only experience of that was on a windows 8 laptop with secureboot
[15:19] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-32GB-Courier-Flash-Drive/dp/B007ZSLZ5E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1365693515&sr=8-2&keywords=usb3+memory+stick looks preferable
[15:21] <AlanBell> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Integral-Courier-Flash-Memory-Faster/dp/B007ZSN10G/ref=pd_sim_computers_3#productDetails would be sufficient
[15:21] <popey> cheap
[15:22] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingston-Generation-8GB-DataTraveller-Drive/dp/B0041Q38NK/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1365693731&sr=1-1&keywords=8gb+usb+memory+stick+usb+3
[15:22] <popey> even cheaper
[15:22] <popey> oh, not usb3
[15:23] <zleap> http://zleap.net/computers/software-testing/
[15:23] <AlanBell> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=1043 neither is that
[15:23] <zleap> i am trying to collate information to provide developers with hardware information
[15:26] <popey> for what purpose?
[15:27] <popey> also, if you mention pastebin you probably should mention pastebinit
[15:27] <popey> !info pastebinit
[15:27] <zleap> because people ask for help with stuff on lists and don't provide information on their hardware
[15:28] <zleap> it would also help your developers if they know what hardware i am using when reporting issues
[15:30] <popey> is this ubuntu specifically or in general?
[15:31] <jacobw> smolt
[15:31] <zleap> general
[15:31] <zleap> if we can help users to help us then to me this is a good thing
[15:32] <popey> i have seen some people have made scripts which gather all this info and slap it on pastebin
[15:33] <jacobw> I have an internal script that dumps that information in /var/log each boot
[15:33] <popey> producing output like this http://paste.ubuntu.com/5689629/
[15:33] <popey> jees, pastebin is just full of those reports
[15:34] <zleap> i just created a paste bin and posted to irc but set it to expire after a month
[15:34] <zleap> popey, that sort of thing is really useful for diagnostics,  maybe the testing isos should have a way to enable these things
[15:35] <zleap> or there could be a tool to enable them
[15:40] <jacobw> See smolt
[15:40] <jacobw> It's been retired now, there's a page in their wiki giving the reasons why it didn't work out
[15:40] <jacobw> Apport does a similar thing
[15:45] <Knightwise> hey guys
[15:47] <brobostigon> afternoonings Knightwise
[15:48] <mungbean> how to find out how far into a video you are with mplayer?
[15:51] <Knightwise> hmm.. just installed Owncloud on my Turnkey linux  box and configured it for access
[15:52] <Knightwise> now it seems i need to upgrade it to version 5 ..
[15:52] <Knightwise> grrr
[15:52] <Knightwise> Hope I don't break it
[15:53] <SuperMatt> 5's been out for a few weeks now
[16:10] <borderer> I use sendEmail to send error messages - can anyone recommend a similar package to receive commands
[16:17] <SuperMatt> huh?
[16:17] <SuperMatt> you're just trying to send emails?
[16:29] <Knightwise> Crud,
[16:30] <Darael> borderer: If thou meanest what I *think* thou meanest (having a machine do something when an email is received, possibly depending on the contents of the email) the traditional way would involve procmail
[16:31] <Knightwise> borderer: sendemail is pretty simple , you can do it in a sngle line to compose an email and stuff  ?
[16:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> borderer: You could also try AlanBell's idea perhaps? http://exceptionalemails.com/
[16:32] <Darael> Knightwise: I got the impression that borderer was happy with sendemail, and looking for something allowing use of email as a trigger for things.
[16:33] <Knightwise> Darael: i use sendemail to do auto posts on Google+ and stuff . Its pretty easy to cron
[16:33] <Knightwise> but I don't use the receiving side
[16:34] <Darael> Knightwise: Yeah, the receiving side is something fewer people have cause to explore.
[16:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> I use sendEmail too. It's a very useful perl script that means you do not need a full SMTP server.
[16:35] <AlanBell> borderer: the python smtp library is fairly easy to use, it is what mailman uses
[16:40] <Knightwise> crap
[16:40] <Knightwise> anyone running owncloud ?
[16:40] <Knightwise> I think I fracked up the file permissions on my config dir
[16:40] <borderer> Sorry all went for tea...
[16:41] <Knightwise> hmm.. i'll see if i can find the default settings somewhere
[16:42] <borderer> I am happy with sendEmail but I would like a way to work with a recieved emails on command line
[16:43] <borderer> Knightwise - are  you from Netherlands and had a podcast
[16:43] <Knightwise> borderer: Correct
[16:43] <Knightwise> i'm not from the netherlands though. :) I'm belgian
[16:43] <Knightwise> but I speak dutch
[16:44] <Knightwise> i still have a podcast :)
[16:44] <borderer> Due to an illness I was not able to keep up but will restart
[16:45] <Knightwise> Wicked :) you followed the old seasons ?
[16:46] <borderer> Knightwise - nice to meet you.
[16:47] <borderer> I enjoyed your podcasts on Ubuntu Servers
[16:47] <Knightwise> thanx bordered :) Nice to mee tyou too.  You might want to check out our latest episodes (Sliders academy) its also a video podcast on setting up a "sliders core" using a ubuntu server
[16:48] <borderer> Knightwise will do.
[19:09] <Knightwise> anyone know anything about TAR ?
[19:10] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: !ask ;)
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> !ask
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> !answer
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> nah!
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there's:
[19:11] <MartijnVdS> !xy
[19:11] <Knightwise> Ok, I have an owncloud installation in /var/www/owncloud
[19:11] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: :)
[19:11] <Knightwise> i dowloaded the latest version (a tar file)
[19:12] <Knightwise> now I need to merge the two versions so that all the file permissions will be preserved
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> check in the original in a VCS (git?), untar, commit only the content changes?
[19:13]  * MartijnVdS has no idea if git can do that
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: also, next time, put any files that need special permissions outside the source dir ;)
[19:14] <Knightwise> MartijnVdS: its the standard owncloud install
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: yes.. doesn't it have a separate config file/directory?
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: that you could just copy over to the newly extracted dir to test?
[19:16] <Knightwise> When i copy over the files from the TAR file it gives me a n error that the file permissions are no longer correct
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: no the other way around :)
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: copy the config from the *current* working install to dir you just extracted to
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: also, doesn't it say which file has wrong permsisions?
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: any o+w files/dirs in your tree?
[19:17] <Knightwise> let me check , holdon
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: have you tried asking the Owncloud devs? :)
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: did you untar as root or as a normal user?
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: see "--no-same-permissions" and "--same-permissions" in the tar manpage
[19:18] <Knightwise> they have a wiki, and that just says "make sure the permissions are correct'
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: (no-same == normal user default, same = root-default)
[19:18] <Knightwise> MartijnVdS: what do you mean by root-default
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: it's the default mode of tar when tar is run by root
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: check the manpage :) it explains
[19:21] <Knightwise> ok , its as a root user that I'm running it
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: try to untar as a normal user instead
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: try to do as little as possible as root
[19:22] <Knightwise> yeah, its a debian install
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> Knightwise: apt-get install sudo :P
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> also:
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> owncloud - cloud storage for files, music, contacts, calendars and many more
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> it's packaged
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> Use the package!
[19:24] <mungbean> theres a yutorial for owncloud
[19:24] <mungbean> failsafe
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> yutorial?
[19:24] <mungbean> 1 finhger typing
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[19:26] <mungbean> yutorial is a good name 4 a youtube tutprial
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> tutprial is something else though
[19:27] <Knightwise> MartijnVdS: its a debian box
[19:28] <Knightwise> and the version I have on there is the 4
[20:06] <mungbean> MartijnVdS: do this link work for you in holland? http://www.youtube.com/show/agreatbritishairdisaster
[20:11] <exaem> hey guys
[20:11] <zleap> hey
[20:11] <exaem> it's been a long time since i was in here
[20:11] <exaem> I think i used to use the nick jutnux
[20:11] <exaem> how have you been?
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: This channel is not available in your country.
[20:12] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: but I can proxy, I guess
[20:13] <mungbean> doesn't work in UK either
[20:13] <mungbean> i think its screwed
[20:13] <mungbean> thanks for trying
[21:38] <bigcalm> I wonder if the RAT will let me take my RAT mug from last year
[22:03] <bigcalm> !bug 1168160
[22:17] <Darael> *Why* is popey a project on Launchpad?
[22:17] <bigcalm> I think the question should be, why is he only now a project?
[22:18] <Darael> That too.
[22:24] <centurion> hi there, can someone help me with sound issues in Ubuntu 12.04? I have selected the proper hardware in Output tab, but nothing happens


[14:24] <rigel> ohai
[14:28] <marcoceppi> o/
[14:36] <rigel> i am interning at a nonprofit in dc that uses lubuntu on their desktops, and it sounds like they need some occasional support
[14:36] <rigel> at least the less technically proficient users
[14:37] <maco> feel free to send support questions to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:37] <rigel> excellent
[14:37] <maco> which nonprofit?
[14:37] <rigel> keionline.org
[14:42] <rigel> is there a newer website than dc.ubuntu-us.org?
[15:00] <maco> no
[15:00] <maco> if it says we havent done anything except chatter on the mailing list since september, that's correct
[17:01] <bcurtiswx> we ended up getting our LoCo re-recognized right?
[17:19] <semitones> is it possible to have a multiway video chat?
[17:19] <maco> bcurtiswx: no
[17:20] <maco> at least, not as far as i know
[17:20] <maco> we definitely expired
[17:20] <bcurtiswx> maco, hmm OK thx
[17:20] <maco> and got at "no" on the rerecognizing at the attempt that was made
[17:20] <maco> kevin ordered CDs right before the expiration though
[20:22] <ChinnoDog> whoa. There is life in this channel.
[20:23] <ChinnoDog> hi rigel
[20:23] <ChinnoDog> hi maco
[23:05] <rigel> hi


[21:41] <Zachk18> mat_t, welcome
[21:45] <Zachk18> mat_t, i'm back
[21:59] <mat_t> hi Zachk18
[21:59] <mat_t> how can I help?
[21:59] <Zachk18> mat_t, ah i was gonna ask you the same thing
[21:59] <Zachk18> i'm not exactly new here
[22:02] <mat_t> go on
[22:04] <Zachk18> mat_t, well that's it...i'm not new...if you really wanna know 'bout me hre's my wiki... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Zachk18
[22:06] <mat_t> Zachk18: cool! Is there anything you're interested in helping with?
[22:07] <Zachk18> mat_t, if you'll look at this.... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BeginnersTeam/FocusGroups look at who last edited it
[22:08] <mat_t> great stuff!
[22:08] <mat_t> So, there's plenty of areas we could use your help with. Right now for example we're working on some changes to Ubuntu.com and we want to make it easier for people to swich to Ubuntu
[22:09] <mat_t> in particular, for Windows users
[22:09] <Zachk18> ok
[22:09] <Zachk18> well my wiki has a link regarding firebird...didn't know if you looked at that at all
[22:09] <mat_t> So we should look at the existing tutorials for beginners, eg. how to create the Ubuntu CD or flash drive and see if we can make them better
[22:10] <Zachk18> yeppers
[22:13] <mdke> the team has planned a new installation guide to cover topics like this, if you're interested in helping out it would be great to hear from you on the mailing list
[22:13] <mat_t> mdke: sure, sounds great
[22:13] <Zachk18> i get emails all the time from the ubuntu mailing list
[22:14] <mat_t> mdke: not sure if I'm currently subscribed, what's the url?
[22:14] <Zachk18> same here
[22:15] <mdke> well, it's the ubuntu-doc list
[22:16] <mdke> to subscribe you can visit http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-doc
[22:16] <mdke> it's kinda the heart of the -doc project, we are pretty quiet on irc
[22:16] <mat_t> mdke: cool, I'm subscribing right now then
[22:17] <Zachk18> shit...forgot my password
[22:17] <mdke> mat_t: cool
[22:24] <mdke> mat_t, Zachk18 - details of the proposed installation guide are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/KarmicInstallationGuide
[22:25] <mdke> that work should continue in the Lucid cycle
[22:25] <Zachk18> ok....i'll look at that...i'm helping somebody set up a wiki about them right now...
[22:29] <mat_t> mdke: looks fantastic
[22:31] <mat_t> mdke: FAQ section with basic questions is a great idea. We want to include such page on ubuntu.com as well, mostly addressing Windows users who are thinking about trying Ubuntu
[22:32] <mat_t> mdke: do you have any content for this section yet?
[22:32] <mdke> I think that missaugustina is working on it, I'm not sure
[22:32] <mdke> this is not going to be ready for karmic though, as a document
[22:32] <mdke> I think we'd hope to make it available from help.ubuntu.com for Lucid
[22:33] <mdke> when available, obviously links can be added on www.ubuntu.com
[22:36] <mat_t> mdke: great
[22:38] <mat_t> mdke: our copywriter is working on a simple FAQ page now, would be great if you guys had any suggestions
[22:38] <mat_t> mdke: I'll pi
[22:38] <mat_t> I'll point her to the mailing list, too
[22:39] <mdke> thanks
[22:40] <mat_t> mdke: thank you, too. I'm off - it's late here! :)
[22:40] <mdke> obviously I'd encourage her / you to look at the existing documentation on help.ubuntu.com and see if that can be improved, rather than adding documentation to www.ubuntu.com which might duplicate material already available on the help site
[22:41] <mat_t> mdke: good point
[22:41] <mdke> it's a bit ragged at the moment (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation is the landing page for community documentation)
[22:41] <mdke> that's really why we wanted to do a proper guide
[22:42] <mat_t> mdke: stuff on ubuntu.com will be rather basic - we would always link to help.ubuntu.com on a "find out more" basis anyway
[22:42]  * mdke nods
[22:43] <mdke> we really need a more friendly installation landing page :(
[22:43] <mat_t> I agree - we'll get there! :)
[22:43] <mat_t> ok, bedtime for me!
[22:43] <mdke> good night
[22:43] <mat_t> night!
[22:54] <Zachk18> whew