[00:00] <rww> Kangarooo: lv.ubuntu.com isn't a server, as far as I can tell.
[00:00] <Kangarooo> but i will not wait 3 days for download someking update
[00:00] <rww> lv.archive.ubuntu.com, maybe?
[00:00] <Kangarooo> then mirror server
[00:00] <Kangarooo> repository.. packages ... updates from where come? wait..
[00:01] <rww> Kangarooo: lv.archive.ubuntu.com does mirror jaunty, and is in the middle of a mirror update right now.
[00:01] <rww> Kangarooo: so if you wait a few hours, it should be up to date
[00:02] <Kangarooo> ftp.linux.edu.lv in software sources but when downloading list it says lv.archive.ubuntu.com
[00:02] <Kangarooo> hmm well ok
[00:02] <Kangarooo> :)
[00:03] <Kangarooo> so now is first mirror updates for jaunty transmitting to latvia?
[00:03] <schierbeck> okay, i've downgraded to 7.2.079-1ubuntu5, and i'm no longer getting the error messages, but i'm still unable to turn syntax highlighting on...
[00:03] <schierbeck> this is really weird...
[00:04] <Kangarooo> wow.. how can u downgrade?
[00:04] <rww> Kangarooo: It's possible that this is the first time since the Beta came out, yes
[00:04] <Kangarooo> aah ok :)
[00:04] <schierbeck> Kangarooo: i disabled all 3rd party repos, did an update and reinstalled the vim packages
[00:04] <Kangarooo> from 9.04?
[00:05] <schierbeck> nope, just a few packages
[00:05] <Kangarooo> but this channel is for 9.04
[00:05] <Kangarooo> no ?
[00:05] <cyphermox> schierbeck, you reinstalled which packages?
[00:06] <schierbeck> cyphermox: vim-gnome and its dependencies; vim-runtime, vim-common and vim-gui-common
[00:06] <cyphermox> heh, weird indeed
[00:06] <schierbeck> yup
[00:06] <Kangarooo> you are trying to get 9.04? download iso and when booting upgrade option maybe?
[00:07] <schierbeck> i'll try renaming my dotfiles and see if something works
[00:07] <carl0s-> which java vm should I use? Is one better than the rest? It's to run ps3 media server.
[00:08] <cousteau> do you mean, which jre? I'm using 6.12 and works nice
[00:08] <Kangarooo> i have 1gb ram very old laptop.. how much swap shoul i put?
[00:08] <cousteau> and I'm on Hardy XD
[00:09] <Kangarooo> if ill put 2gb swap will it work faster?
[00:09] <Aggro> Kangarooo: From my experience, it is best not to use swap at all.
[00:10] <Aggro> Kangarooo: If you have no swap and you run out of memory, kernel starts to shoot down processes to release memory
[00:10] <carl0s-> I guess a jre sounds right.. choices I have are gij, kaffe etc.  And also virtualbox
[00:11] <calc> alteredud: hmm?
[00:11] <Kangarooo> Aggro: without swap?
[00:11] <Aggro> yes, without swap
[00:12] <JonCharge> rww, all silent, I'll ask again later as well.  :)
[00:12] <JonCharge> in -bugs
[00:12] <Kangarooo> but ive read 1 year ago that swap i what makes linux faster.. ? or has better swap then windows..
[00:12] <rww> JonCharge: just stick around in there. It takes a while sometimes
[00:12] <JonCharge> k
[00:13] <Kangarooo> or something like that.. but definetly that linux needs swap.. well i have never tryd without swap
[00:13] <Aggro> Kangarooo: That might have been cache you have been reading about. Swap doesn't make computer faster, it makes it slower.
[00:13] <Aggro> Kangarooo: Only advantage from swap is that you can consume more memory that you really have.
[00:13] <tremby> since upgrading one of my machines can't resolve hostnames. or rather, it can resolve them with host or dig but /can't/ with ping or with a browser etc. i watched wireshark and no packets go out when i try to ping -- there's no output and i have to control-c. what might be wrong?
[00:13] <Kangarooo> omfg - we need to tell every one that
[00:13] <PhotoJim> You can run Linux without swap, but there is little point.  disk space is cheap, and swap can be a godsend in the situation that you do run out of physical RAM.
[00:13] <tremby> i should mention that the other machines on the network are fine, and the settings look the same
[00:13] <calc> if you run without swap you might want to tweak the knob to not allow overcommit of memory either
[00:14] <calc> i can't recall what it is named as I haven't used it in a couple years
[00:14] <Kangarooo> well with partitioner using live cd i can make later swap right>?
[00:14] <Aggro> PhotoJim: My computer becomes so slow that I often have to reset it to recover when I run out of memory. Which is why I prefer a few dead processes.
[00:14] <Aggro> Kangarooo: I think it is easier to disable than enable it later.
[00:14] <PhotoJim> Aggro: for that circumstance, it might make sense, but solving the memory leakage problem or increasing physical RAM, if you are just running more stuff than the RAM can handle, are better long-term solutions.
[00:15] <bsnider> PhotoJim, swap is slower than physical ram and there are those of us that won't run out of it
[00:15] <Kangarooo> ou i have idea
[00:15] <PhotoJim> bsnider: yup, definitely slower.  and your call.
[00:16] <Kangarooo> swap in start of the physical disk..
[00:16] <Kangarooo> that will be faster :)
[00:16] <Kangarooo> for swap..
[00:16] <Kangarooo> no?
[00:16] <PhotoJim> marginally.
[00:16] <tremby> Kangarooo: what's your use case? my swap extremely rarely gets used
[00:17] <calc> PhotoJim: should be a lot faster than eg the end of the disk
[00:17] <bsnider> it's slower regardless
[00:17] <calc> generally first of disk is ~ 2x as fast as end of disk
[00:17] <calc> still a lot slower than ram though
[00:17] <PhotoJim> calc: yes, but you have to consider that your system is using the rest of the disk too.  the most important information should be at the beginning of the disk.
[00:17] <Kangarooo> ? use case? if i understand correctly then for what yes? firefox many tabs and netbeans ruby on rails
[00:17] <PhotoJim> calc: and in a memory-poor system that might be swap, but in a memory-rich one that won't be.
[00:17] <calc> i have some in swap even on 4GB with only 940M used
[00:17] <Kangarooo> and maybe latter some perverse programms :)
[00:18] <bsnider> i didn't use swap on a 2gb system
[00:18] <calc> PhotoJim: i setup my system with swap first, small root/home/etc partition (16GB) then all the rest for random crap storage
[00:18] <calc> PhotoJim: so pretty much all of swap and regular running stuff is in the first 20GB of the disk
[00:18] <Kangarooo> wise
[00:19] <PhotoJim> calc: I usually put my swap at the end of the disk out of habit, but I recently deployed a RAID1 system where I put the swap at the beginning of the disks.  We'll see if it helps.  :)
[00:20] <calc> PhotoJim: iirc my disk does ~ 100MB/s at the beginning and ~ 50MB/s at the end, both of which is more than order of magnitude slower than ram
[00:20] <calc> i just have a laptop drive though, desktop drives should be faster
[00:20] <PhotoJim> calc: yup, but the relative difference isn't likely too much.
[00:22] <Kangarooo> i have motherfucking old portable yakumo from germany with german chipset and it had windows and i put gos at end then linux mint instead of gos and now xubuntu couse year ago i remember xubuntu was really faster but i f**ed somehow system so yesterday with live cd i deleted all linux put windows from start to end and put xubuntu in start of disk
[00:22] <carl0s-> is there a firewall on by default in jaunty ? my torrents are working.. port appears to be open.
[00:22] <Kangarooo> WOW how is possible 100MB/s?
[00:22] <Kangarooo> how much rpm :D
[00:22] <carl0s-> iptables -L shows nothing except ACCEPT, which looks good.
[00:22] <calc> Kangarooo: seagate momentus 7200.4 500GB drive
[00:23] <Kangarooo> 7200 ? e? 100mb/s?
[00:23] <bsnider> carl0s-, it is permissive out of the box
[00:23] <calc> Kangarooo: yea the new seagate 7200rpm drive
[00:23] <calc> Kangarooo: on a running system it ranges around 95MB/s from hdparm
[00:23] <Kangarooo> noo you are lieing :)
[00:23] <calc> Kangarooo: i think it would probably be 100MB/s or so if i wasn't actually running stuff on the drive a tthe same time
[00:24] <josh-l> how can I check if I have x86_64 firefox installed?
[00:24] <Volkodav> it will you
[00:25] <calc> Kangarooo: i'm pretty sure its the fastest laptop hd available (non-ssd)
[00:25] <Volkodav> tell*
[00:25] <josh-l> Volkodav: what will tell me
[00:25] <carl0s-> bed time. thanks for help, done good :)
[00:26] <Volkodav> the About thing on firefox
[00:26] <josh-l> there are more than one
[00:27] <Volkodav> josh-l are u running a 64 bit system ?
[00:27] <josh-l> yes
[00:27] <Volkodav> then you have firefox 64 bit installed
[00:27] <Kangarooo> how many think i should put swap at start of disk? sai aaaaigh :)
[00:27] <calc>  Timing cached reads:   3670 MB in  2.00 seconds = 1836.39 MB/sec
[00:27] <calc>  Timing buffered disk reads:  286 MB in  3.02 seconds =  94.82 MB/sec
[00:27] <josh-l> Volkodav: not necessarily i dont think
[00:27] <calc> thats on a running system though
[00:27] <josh-l> ive installed seperatley
[00:28] <Kangarooo> ok no one
[00:28] <Kangarooo> how many think i should not use swap?
[00:28] <calc> Kangarooo: if you have no swap... you have no hibernate
[00:28] <calc> so if you are using a laptop you should have swap on it :)
[00:28] <Kangarooo> and is hibernate faster starting?
[00:28] <bsnider> josh-l, how did you install it?
[00:29] <calc> Kangarooo: hibernate allows you save the state of your system with it turned off
[00:29] <josh-l> bsnider: i installed 3.1 via a ppa repo
[00:29] <calc> Kangarooo: its useful for desktops too, but is really needed on laptops imho
[00:29] <Kangarooo> ihave read it also starts faster with hibernate then just start
[00:29] <calc> the speed of hibernate start depends on how much ram you have and how fast your disk is
[00:29] <calc> it reads the memory off the disk to restore the system
[00:30] <calc> eg 4096MB/100MB/s = 41s to restore
[00:30] <josh-l> bsnider:  should firefox 3.1 be faster than 3.0 noticably? because i almost feel like its slower. thats why i'm wondering if its the 64bit version or not.
[00:30] <bsnider> josh-l, i386 debs won't install on a 64 bit system. -all- debs will, but i don't thinkt hat applies here
[00:30] <bsnider> ff 3.1 is mega-fast
[00:30] <Mulder> is it really?
[00:30] <Mulder> felt the same to me
[00:30] <bsnider> well it's different here
[00:30] <calc> _all_ debs are non-architecture files, so firefox should not have binaries in an all deb
[00:31] <josh-l> bsnider: ok becuase its def. not faster than 3.0 on here it actually feels slower
[00:31] <Mulder> xserver 1.6 feels faster than 1.4
[00:31] <calc> josh-l: may depend on what they have the fsync() call set to
[00:31] <calc> there are options (aiui) in firefox to disable it
[00:31] <calc> i'm not sure what the default is on 3.1
[00:31] <Mulder> with compiz at least.
[00:32] <josh-l> calc: sorry i dont understand what you just said...
[00:32] <Kangarooo> so whats more important to be in start of disk.. ? swap or / ?
[00:32] <bsnider> images load instantly. javascript is faster, you name it and ff 3.1 does it faster than 3.0
[00:32] <matrixblue_> sup?
[00:32] <Kangarooo> nothiun drinking beer watchin game
[00:32] <josh-l> bsnider: why is it not for me... 3.0 is at least as fast if not faster here
[00:32] <matrixblue_> cool
[00:32] <JonCharge> I have not had any jaunty updates in a few hours, we are not in a freeze are we?
[00:32] <josh-l> calc: what do you mean
[00:32] <bsnider> no, i've already eaten supper, thanks
[00:32] <calc> josh-l: fsync() causes file writes to hit disk before it returns, which can slow down firefox if is run on an ext3 partition, there is an option to disable fsync() in some versions of firefox as far as i know, but i don't know what the default is on 3.1
[00:33] <josh-l> calc: how about on ext4... which is what i'm running on
[00:33] <bsnider> yeah, i'm using it on ext4/xfs
[00:33] <matrixblue_> my pidgin keeps crashing, I ran it in debug and the last message I got before a segmentation fault was something about DNS
[00:33] <calc> josh-l: oh no idea why it would seem slow on ext4
[00:34] <matrixblue_> dns[19470]: Oops, father has gone, wait for me, wait...!
[00:34] <matrixblue_> Segmentation fault
[00:34] <bsnider> josh-l, what if you run it out of a new user account?
[00:34] <josh-l> alright i'm doing something radical... i think i may have messed things up somehow... i'm reinstalling
[00:35] <josh-l> bbl
[00:35] <afallenhope> hey anyone else have issues with the installer?
[00:35] <QPrime> pwnguin: thanks.  will check it out - I was afk for a little while
[00:36] <afallenhope> the installer freezes at Keyboard Layout xubuntu amd64 desktop
[00:37] <matrixblue_> ne one have any idea what's wrong with pidgin?
[00:37] <josh-l> anyone happen to know where kernel 2.6.29 for jaunty deb is? i forgot
[00:37] <Mulder> err
[00:37] <bsnider> josh-l, did you try it out of a new user account or not?
[00:37] <matrixblue_> When my MSN account is disabled it works
[00:37] <Mulder> id be very surprised if 2.6.29 is in the repo at all
[00:37] <josh-l> bsnider: yeah same thing
[00:37] <josh-l> Mulder: theyre not in a repo
[00:38] <Kangarooo1> yeah
[00:38] <josh-l> but i require it for my laptop, and i'm about to do a reinstall... so i want to know where it is
[00:38] <Kangarooo1> im using pidgin i just got disconected..
[00:38] <Kangarooo1> i know whats wrong with pidgin
[00:38] <bsnider> why do you require it for your laptop?
[00:38] <Kangarooo1> its wrong
[00:38] <Kangarooo1> :)
[00:39] <Volkodav> ubuntu64
[00:39] <josh-l> bsnider: long story, but i cant shutdown/reboot without it
[00:39] <matrixblue_> kangarooo1 what's wrong with it?
[00:39] <Kangarooo1> its wrong :)
[00:39] <Kangarooo1> but actually i also had disconection..
[00:40] <matrixblue_> kangarooo1, seriously I need this fixed. It's been bothering me for a few weeks now
[00:40] <matrixblue_> and it only affects my Jaunty installations
[00:40] <Kangarooo1> update..
[00:40] <Kangarooo1> i dont know then
[00:40] <matrixblue_> kangarooo1: did that
[00:40] <Mulder> josh-l, http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[00:41] <matrixblue_> Does anyone here use pidgin with MSN in jaunty?
[00:41] <ddd707> Noob question... regarding the notification area. Is there a way to adjust color/backround etc?
[00:41] <Kangarooo1> ok so im installing xubuntu and now im at partition place..
[00:41] <Kangarooo1> should i use swap on laptop and in witch side? start or slowes side?
[00:42] <Kangarooo1> wtf? how its possible that im with 2 nicks?
[00:42] <Kangarooo1> pidgin bug?
[00:43] <crdlb> I believe pidgin has a "feature" where it doesn't tell you that it had to use an alternate nick
[00:46] <Kangarooo1> but its somekind goust..
[00:46] <Kangarooo1> i was disconected.. pidgin did that or irc server?
[00:49] <crdlb> Kangarooo1: could be pidgin, or it could be network connection problems
[00:49] <crdlb> you can ghost the old nick with '/msg nickserv ghost <nick> <password>'
[00:50] <Kangarooo1> i have motherf&&& internet with secure against loses with many servers or routers or somthing ...
[00:50] <dtchen> err, what?
[00:51] <quentusrex> I'm noticing that an nfs entry in /etc/fstab isn't auto mounting on boot
[00:51] <quentusrex> is there a known issue?
[00:51] <quentusrex> or maybe I have a config set wrong...
[00:52] <quentusrex> running 'sudo mount -a' after boot mounts it properly...
[00:55] <ddd707> hmm looking through the beta, must be blind, where are the notification preferences ?
[00:56] <stephenr82> can you compare  http://tiny.cc/JZwK6  and http://tiny.cc/b1qF5
[00:56] <stephenr82> one has a bolder font than the other
[00:56] <stephenr82> its only started happening since i went to jaunty
[00:56] <stephenr82> how can i fix it? in the cmd line i just do ctrl - and it sorts it, but for guis i dunno
[00:59] <digitaloktay> hi
[01:00] <digitaloktay> i am using new wave as theme but the menus on firefox or openoffice are unreadable
[01:00] <timo1> Any luck with pulsaudio ?
[01:02] <imachine> timo1, 'srong with it ?
[01:03] <imachine> (my issues have gone away, it seems, after backing up evolution and removing ~/.gconf and ~/.gnome*
[01:04] <timo1>  imachine:there were some issues with it and using high cpu, and no sound some times. I thout every one knew
[01:04] <imachine> I had that
[01:04] <imachine> timo1, but it seems it's gone now.
[01:04] <imachine> I'll look into it.
[01:05] <dtchen> timo1: they should be resolved already. if you're still experiencing the symptoms, please file bugs and let me know.
[01:05] <timo1>  imachine:have there been updates...i havent boot into it in ages
[01:05] <dtchen> (i spent the better part of a week fixing them.)
[01:05] <timo1> dtchen thank you
[01:06] <imachine> timo1, dunno; like I said I removed my gnome settings cause 4.5.0 qt apps read them, and read incorrect dpi.
[01:06] <timo1> dtchen your kernel was great ;-)
[01:06] <imachine> ever since I have not experienced the problem, but it could just as well be coincidence.
[01:07] <imachine> man it sucks there's no 24/7 chinese restaurant over here
[01:07] <imachine> I'd be all over it
[01:08]  * timo1 off to try pulseaudio
[01:18] <QPrime> pwnguin: ...and it was said unto QPrime by pwnguin, "verily, install libdrm-nouveau1 and all will be well".  And so it was done.   And sprung forth a veritable bounty of FLOSS goodness onto QPrime dual monitor setup.  And it was good.
[01:19] <JonCharge> I wanted to ask here, but instead I have asked on lpad, here is my question...
[01:19] <JonCharge> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/65835
[01:19] <QPrime> pwnguin: thank you.  I'm guessing that bug track on launchpad?  I'll take a look for it.  thanks again!
[01:20] <ali1234> you know nouveau has no 3d acceleration right?
[01:20] <QPrime> ali1234: yes, but I'm willing to test with it.  tired of the nvidia stance.
[01:21] <QPrime> ali1234: atm the nouveau driver is giving me better initialization and 2D results than nv so thats an improvement right there.
[01:21] <ali1234> sure. and the fact that nv driver is basically run by nvidia also sucks :/
[01:23] <QPrime> ali1234: I've been thinking of an ati purchase just as a protest against nvidia.  but I want a little more than talk from ati on the open driver side of things.  we'll see what happens I guess.
[01:25] <bsnider> QPrime, as a protest against nvidia...that's mind-boggling
[01:25] <imachine> get intel
[01:25] <imachine> intel rocks best in opensource.
[01:25] <imachine> however, even the X4500 is not so great.
[01:25] <QPrime> imachine: yeah, but... its an intel!
[01:25] <imachine> but it'll prolly get there.
[01:25] <QPrime> exactly. :(
[01:25] <imachine> anyway, afaik ati sucks just as much.
[01:26] <bsnider> QPrime, all the work they've done to provide their customers with an experience that's comparable with Windows, and you want to protest them.
[01:26] <ali1234> ati? might as well just chuck the whole computer in the bin
[01:26] <imachine> and even with the minor issues nvidia had a while ago, it still works quite well
[01:26] <QPrime> intel just announced a new gpu spec... again, we'll see
[01:26] <QPrime> ali1234: not fond of ati huh?
[01:26] <QPrime> bsnider: hey, you do what you can right? :(
[01:27] <bsnider> ingrate
[01:28] <QPrime> bsnider: look, the drivers are reasonable... its the internal policies that I have an issue with... yes I understand that IP issues with the technology, but I *need* to see more movement to FLOSS from nvidia.
[01:28] <QPrime> bsnider: hopefully that was sarcasm. :P
[01:28] <bsnider> it wasn't, i assure you
[01:29] <imachine> there's a chance once neavaou or whatever you spell it gets enough attention and work, nvidia will release their drivers fully opensource.
[01:29] <QPrime> bsnider: well then we are on different sides of the isle on this one.
[01:29] <bsnider> they ahd to replace the entire 3d stack in mesa because it's garbage. do you think that was easy?
[01:29] <ali1234> the nv driver is maintained by nvidia employees
[01:29] <imachine> tbh, they just as well might come to an agreement with ati, as they're the only players taht count and keep their stuff closedsource.
[01:29] <ali1234> what more do you want?
[01:30] <imachine> seal the deal with amd and say: we can make it work, we'll both release our stuff opensource.
[01:30] <imachine> at the same time.
[01:30] <imachine> sorted!
[01:30] <QPrime> bsnider: and the reason they could do it was because its was open source.  end of argument.
[01:31] <bsnider> that makes no sense at all
[01:31] <ali1234> intel has the most open drivers imo
[01:32] <ali1234> they actually give out the hardware docs as well as the source
[01:32] <QPrime> ali1234: specifically to build mindshare.
[01:32] <QPrime> ali1234: and I'm fine with that
[01:32] <QPrime> bsnider: Like I said... different worlds my friend.
[01:33] <Aggro> how is the pulseaudio started on ltsp client machine? I think it is crashing.
[01:33] <Aggro> If not crashing, it shuts down and does not restart
[01:34] <Aggro> manual restart does not seem to help either, it can't be connected after that
[01:34] <bsnider> QPrime, does it make a difference to you that the nouveau devs have already said they don't need document drops from nvidia?
[01:35] <QPrime> machine: there's a chance once neavaou or whatever you spell it gets enough attention and work, nvidia will release their drivers fully opensource.  <--- thats my hope as well or at least ease up on the IP stranglehold.
[01:35] <crdlb> anybody saying HW specifications wouldn't help is lying :)
[01:35] <bsnider> nvidia is not responsible for the "IP stranglehold"
[01:36] <crdlb> I don't doubt that they can get it done through reverse engineering though
[01:36] <bsnider> crdlb, they already revenged the stuff because the nvidia driver has been around so many years
[01:36] <QPrime> bsnider; no.. because the lack of documentation has historically stood in the way.  Their personal feelings on this are are result of where they are now.  Things could be 3-5 years further along if there was documentation.
[01:36] <bsnider> no they wouldn't
[01:36] <bsnider> because of all of the problems with opengl on linux
[01:37] <QPrime> bsnider: BS!  thats one of their claims.  3rd party IP NDA.
[01:37] <imachine> it'll come to sense.
[01:37] <imachine> unless they want intel to take the market.
[01:37] <imachine> opengl is opengl
[01:37] <imachine> tbh, I had great exp with intel.
[01:38] <imachine> and the next laptop I'd be getting, ideally would be with X4500HD or whatever that comes out from intel's backyard.
[01:38] <crdlb> they've been screwing up recently though
[01:38] <imachine> checkd it out on youtube, even some games run prety smooth with the 4,5k
[01:38] <imachine> had some issues on old intel cards.
[01:38] <syockit> didn't they say the same thing about nvidia having to have to fully open their drivers, some years ago? man, this is getting like year of the linux thing
[01:38] <imachine> but the new ones, rock.
[01:38] <bsnider> until gem, which made it into the 2.6.28 kernel, there was no hardware generated opengl on linux, so no, opengl isn't opengl. it's not that simple
[01:38] <syockit> i mean year of desktop linux
[01:39] <imachine> bsnider, oh?
[01:39] <imachine> well I'm not that much of a follower.
[01:39] <syockit> you mean till gem, opengl on intel wasn't hardware accelerated?
[01:39] <bsnider> that's correct
[01:40] <bsnider> it was never hardware-accelerated on linux
[01:40] <bsnider> ever. ever. ever
[01:40] <QPrime> bsnider: a functional FLOSS nvidia driver would have spurred on movement in these fronts years ago.  are you seriously saying otherwise?
[01:40] <bsnider> unless you used the nvidia blob which has its own memory manager
[01:40] <imachine> that sounds weird.
[01:40] <imachine> oh
[01:40] <imachine> :)
[01:40] <bsnider> that's why nvidia's driver was necessary, because linux graphcis has always been garbage
[01:40] <imachine> well, using radeondrm+dri that worked well with opengl
[01:40] <crdlb> that's exaggerating a bit ...
[01:40] <crdlb> some OpenGL is possible without a memory manager
[01:41] <crdlb> but yes, mesa was not ready to be the platform for a world-class driver
[01:41]  * QPrime thinks bsnider has a particular fetish for Nvidia. and its closed drivers.
[01:41] <bsnider> QPrime, so now it's nvidia's reponsibility to fix mesa? they have nothing to do with mesa. and they have to fix it?
[01:41] <imachine> well, we'll see how gem works out.
[01:41] <imachine> and once nvidia moves to gem, and so ati, and so intel.
[01:42] <imachine> and we'll see how it kicks in :)
[01:42] <crdlb> it's nvidia's responsibility to release specs and fund open source drivers for their hardware
[01:42] <QPrime> bsnider: never said it was... but the number of nvidia gpus out there on linux boxes would have pushed it much further along much faster.
[01:43] <imachine> crdlb, I guess it's about keeping some "secrets" from their competitors.
[01:43] <bsnider> crdlb, an open source driver would have suffered from mesa's longstanding flaws
[01:43] <imachine> so like I said, the moment ati kicks in, and everything works out.
[01:43] <imachine> ;]
[01:43] <QPrime> bsniderL an open source driver would have made it much more appealing to resolve those issues!
[01:43] <crdlb> bsnider: then they should have helped fix them
[01:43] <crdlb> or just not bother at all
[01:43] <imachine> and improve other.
[01:43] <imachine> etc.
[01:44] <imachine> dunno
[01:44] <imachine> we'll see.
[01:44] <imachine> it crowd's on. lates!
[01:44] <bsnider> right, they shoud have fixed them, even though they didn't cause them hahaha
[01:44] <bsnider> whatever
[01:44] <imachine> bsnider, guess you never developed any software ;]
[01:44] <crdlb> in the long term, their contribution of a proprietary video driver is useless
[01:44] <imachine> you all spread fudd.
[01:44]  * imachine &
[01:44] <crdlb> except, I guess as a black box to use in reverse engineering
[01:45] <bsnider> i have found it very useful, myself
[01:45] <imachine> and an operating system that can use opengl "like windows"
[01:45] <QPrime> look seriously, I'm DONE with nvidia... its open source or get the hell out of the way.  there are other companies that will support the FLOSS push.  nvidia either joins the party or gets pushed to the side.  period.
[01:45] <imachine> relax
[01:46] <imachine> I use whatever works.
[01:46]  * imachine owns a compal laptop el80, geforce go 7600
[01:46] <imachine> works ok.
[01:46] <imachine> just overheats a bit.
[01:46] <bsnider> QPrime, the nouveau driver is further along than the open source ati driver. it will have gallium3d and kms by the end of the year
[01:46] <crdlb> lol, that's funny
[01:46] <BluesKaj> QPrime , what's your nvidia problem...I just got back
[01:47] <QPrime> BluesKaj: FLOSS discussion :(
[01:47] <bsnider> he's annoyed that their driver works and the open source graphics drivers are garbage
[01:47] <BluesKaj> sry , not gamer FLOSS ?
[01:47] <imachine> bsnider, woa, gallium sounds nice!
[01:48] <bsnider> imachine, yeah and it's only, uh, 10 years late!
[01:48] <QPrime> Free Libre Open Source
[01:48] <Mulder> open source ati driver has 3d rendering
[01:48] <Mulder> hardware accelerated.
[01:48] <bsnider> yeah, software rendering. fake rendering
[01:49] <Mulder> it's hardware.
[01:49] <Mulder> at least for R300
[01:49] <QPrime> bsnider: dude, seriously... you miss (or mis-construe) my point.
[01:49] <imachine> bsnider, relax ;P 10 years ago people barely thought about running linux as a desktop
[01:49] <Mulder> oh i should butt out of the conversation. now it's just getting confusing
[01:49] <bsnider> you're trashing the only company that rewarded their customers by producing a fully-functional graphics driver
[01:50] <imachine> anyway
[01:50] <imachine> you guys flame away.
[01:50] <imachine> lates
[01:50] <QPrime> bsnider: I'm trashing the internal policy decisions... and those policy decisions directly affect me as a paying customer.
[01:50] <BluesKaj> yeah , I have an onboard ati graphics , which i disabled in the BIOS , so i can use the nvidia 7600GT that I bought from a friend ...it works well , but ati isn't holding up it's end on the linux fglrx drivers
[01:50] <bsnider> by giving you a a working driver
[01:51] <QPrime> yeah... lets move to offtopic if you want to discuss further, not cool in the main channel :(
[01:51] <Mulder> BluesKaj, they've done pretty well though
[01:51] <exco> my wlan card is called eth4 ... but shouldn't it be wlan0? (does it matter?)
[01:51] <Mulder> exco, not terribly much no
[01:51] <BluesKaj> Mulder , are finally up to date ?
[01:51] <BluesKaj> is ati
[01:52] <Mulder> BluesKaj, featurewise probably still lag behind windows driver, but they do same day product/driver releases now
[01:53] <BluesKaj> really ? ...that's news :)
[01:53] <Mulder> and the X developers ahve been granted access to see the 3d specs , which is what made 3d acceleration in the open source driver much quicker
[01:54] <bsnider> Mulder, when was this? when were devs granted access to all 3d specs?
[01:54] <BluesKaj> right , I wonder if ati realizes how many ppl with their products are switching to linux or at least dual booting
[01:54] <Mulder> bsnider, a while ago?
[01:54] <Mulder> bsnider, check phoronix forums
[01:54] <Mulder> there would've been a write up about it
[01:55] <Mulder> just earlier radeon models, like 300 up to maybe 500 or 600
[01:56] <Mulder> the opensource ati driver on my machine has had decent 3d support since a month or so after 8.10
[01:56] <bsnider> i think they released documentation only in january, and whether that's comprehensive is another issue
[01:56] <BluesKaj> we have 6 other computers in this household atm , that run vista , now everyone is afraid of the conficker C worm that's supposed to start doing damage again on Apr 1st..I keep telling everyone that I'll be installing linux on their corrupted pcs on Apr 2nd
[01:57] <Mulder> development by the X team on 3d definitely took place before jan
[01:57] <Mulder> i'm pretty sure i remember an announcement on phoronix saying certain X developers got a look in
[01:58] <bsnider> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NzAxNg
[01:58] <bsnider> january 26 of this year
[01:58] <bsnider> for the newer hardware
[01:58] <Mulder> that's R600/700
[01:58] <Mulder> R300 came earlier
[01:58] <QPrime> Mulder: between ati and intel there is some measure of hope for decent OSS co-operation.
[01:59] <JorgeJorgesson> I just upgraded to 9.04 and my ATI 3D acceleration works fantastic....with one exception, youtube and flash video.  I have the driver installed but it won't playback the videos
[01:59] <bsnider> well 3d programming for old junk isn't as important
[01:59] <Mulder> ...
[01:59] <QPrime> bsnider: but it is usually easier to implement.
[01:59] <Mulder> QPrime, yes, and when it suits them (eventually) nvidia will join the party
[02:00] <QPrime> Mulder: they will be forced to play ball (at least documentation wise).  agreed.
[02:00] <JorgeJorgesson> do I need to download the Flash driver from Adobe?
[02:00] <jcgeuze> hello, did a fresh install of 9.04 beta on my hp laptop.. sound now doesnt work. always has worked with 8.04/8.10 . how can i troubleshoot this?
[02:00] <Kangarooo> wiiii i have xubuntu 9.04 :)
[02:01] <Aggro> jcgeuze: Perhaps related to program called pulseaudio
[02:01] <bsnider> documentation isn't needed from nvidia, as everything is already reverse engineered
[02:01] <ali1234> bsnider: except tv out
[02:01] <exco> another question - if I manually setup an ip, subnet, gateway and dns through network manager for a network card (my mobile phone) why doesn't that get obeyed?
[02:01] <QPrime> JorgeJorgesson: check the jaunty repositories... they non-free installer should be there.  you can also try Gnash (free) but I'm not sure how it compares feature for feature with the non-free version these days.
[02:01] <bsnider> all nouveau needs is programming manpower and testing hardware
[02:02] <QPrime> bsnider: and new gpu releases?
[02:02] <JorgeJorgesson> QPrime: I have the nonfree driver installed already
[02:02] <jcgeuze> Aggro: i've done some tests with aplay, card is detected, and not muted.. still i dont hear anything..  pulseaudio works on top of alsa right?
[02:03] <QPrime> JorgeJorgesson: do you have the firefox plugin or the correct codecs?  what happens when you try and view a you tube video?
[02:03] <Aggro> jcgeuze: I don't know much, but I'm having problems with pulseaudio shutting down after an minute of sound usage
[02:03] <JorgeJorgesson> QPrime: It says that I don't have the correct Flash Program to view the video
[02:03] <Aggro> shutting down or crashing, can't figure it out
[02:04] <BluesKaj> JorgeJorgesson, download the flashplayer here: http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/ , then extract it , open the folder and copy the libflashplayer.so file to your /usr/lib/xulrunner-addons/plugins file
[02:04] <jcgeuze> Aggro: ok, i think my problem is at a lower level..  your audio works with aplay tests?
[02:04] <QPrime> JorgeJorgesson; also, do you have a script blocker like noscript installed?
[02:04] <JorgeJorgesson> QPrime: I don't belive so.  It worked fine before the update.
[02:04] <BluesKaj> JorgeJorgesson, that will make it available globally on your pc
[02:05] <JorgeJorgesson> BluesKaj: Ok, I don't install the driver though, correct?
[02:05] <Aggro> jcgeuze: Well actually I have this problem  with ltsp
[02:05] <QPrime> JorgeJorgesson: take BluesKaj's advice then.
[02:05] <Aggro> but now to sleep.. 4am
[02:05] <JorgeJorgesson> BluesKaj: I just copy the one file?
[02:05] <BluesKaj> yes
[02:06] <JorgeJorgesson> BluesKaj: Ok, I'll give that a shot.
[02:06] <jcgeuze> Aggro: did some work with ltsp loooooooooooooong time ago.. but i cant be much of help to you, sorry
[02:06] <BluesKaj> JorgeJorgesson, you have to extract the file because it's a tarball
[02:07] <JorgeJorgesson> BluesKaj: Got you.
[02:07] <QPrime> gotta go keep the wife warm... bbiab.  thanks for the irc heat bsnider  ;)
[02:08] <BluesKaj> JorgeJorgesson, then do a , sudo updatedb,  in the konsole
[02:08] <BluesKaj> yeah, tv time with wifey ..BBL
[02:09] <afallenhope> hey I'm installing Ubuntu jaunty and I'm just looking at the /var/log/message via  tail -f and I find a bunch of "Mar 30 01:05:08 ubuntu python: Not copying"
[02:10] <afallenhope> is this normal?
[02:15] <JorgeJorgesson> BluesKaj: Wonderful.  Works perfectly now.  Thanks!
[02:15] <afallenhope> hey I'm installing Ubuntu jaunty and I'm just looking at the /var/log/message via  tail -f and I find a bunch of "Mar 30 01:05:08 ubuntu python: Not copying"
[02:16] <BluesKaj> JorgeJorgesson , NP :)
[02:24] <oOarthurOo> Hmm... used to be when I closed pidgin it minized to the tray... but now it just shuts down.
[02:25] <crdlb> oOarthurOo: enable the tray plugin
[02:26] <oOarthurOo> crdlb: Yup... changing show tray to always fixed it back to its previous behaviour. Thanks.
[02:26] <Mulder> i have it on never, and it still works
[02:27] <Mulder> as long as indicator-applet doesnt disappear i'll be fine
[02:27] <Mulder> i wish there were an option to disable the indicator app's tray icon though
[02:31] <melik> http://omploader.org/vMWdlaQ/matrix-jaunty-20090328-1.png
[02:31] <melik> :D!
[02:31] <melik> 17.97 seconds for full boot
[02:32] <melik> and its a single core processor + 1 gig ram, haha.
[02:43] <scream> What tool can I use to export settings, docs, email, filters from one ubuntu and import into another?
[02:45] <oOarthurOo> scream: cp?
[02:45] <alex_mayorga> anyone else with very buggy bluetooth?
[02:46] <scream> oOarthurOo, are you telling me to use the terminal's copy command?
[02:46] <scream> ...
[02:47] <scream> Surely there is a package that does all this?
[02:55] <josh-l> hey all
[02:56] <josh-l> wondering is there anything special I need to do when installing restricted extras? it seems to install a lot of lib32s and other 32 stuff
[03:04] <josh-l> can anyone remind me how to install something without recommended using apt-get pls? --no-recomended or something
[03:05] <crdlb> josh-l: --no-install-recommends
[03:05] <josh-l> awesome thanks crdlb
[03:06] <josh-l> crdlb: running x86-64 here, do I/should I install 64bit java?
[03:06]  * crdlb has no idea
[03:07] <josh-l> k thx
[03:09] <josh-l> now i'm just confused
[03:10] <josh-l> I reinstalled kubuntu jaunty... not for this specifically, but i just had a feeling i should... now my firefox no longer crashes on gmail with 64bit flash plugin!
[03:12] <m_tadeu_> is there a ppa for kde4.2.2 around?
[03:22] <bsnider> josh-l, how's it going so far?
[03:22] <bsnider> oh, i just read your previous message
[03:22] <bsnider> so i guess it went well
[03:23] <bsnider> now you believe me when i say i have no problems with it
[03:23] <josh-l> bsnider: yeah i'm just utterly confused as to what actually happened
[03:24] <timo1> Ok i have done some testing, pulseaudio is still broken >:o
[03:24] <timo1> Im getting crackling sound
[03:26] <josh-l> bsnider: live and don't learn i guess
[03:35] <timo1> This issue is up to me to report and make sure its sorted O:-),
[03:44] <JorgeJorgesson> Compiz works wonderful with the Open Source 3D accelerator on my ATI card, but any opengl games run very, very slow. Did I miss installing somthing?
[03:45] <bsnider> yeah, vista + ati catalyst vista driver
[03:46] <JorgeJorgesson> TORCS is a windows game?
[03:46] <Amaranth> JorgeJorgesson: The open source driver is going to be 50-70% the speed of the fglrx driver, at best
[03:47] <bsnider> wait about 2 years until there's a working gallium3d ati driver for your card
[03:47] <JorgeJorgesson> Amaranth: I understand.  I have to wait for the new fglrx driver for 9.04 from ATI then
[03:47] <Amaranth> JorgeJorgesson: Nope
[03:47] <JorgeJorgesson> Amaranth: I tried the one from the repos and it was a disaster
[03:48] <Amaranth> JorgeJorgesson: If you have working 3D with the open source driver that means you have a card old enough that there won't be a fglrx driver that works with 9.04 for your card
[03:48] <Amaranth> JorgeJorgesson: fglrx only supports Radeon HD cards now
[03:48] <JorgeJorgesson> Amaranth: Ah, but 8.10 was no problem
[03:48] <Amaranth> JorgeJorgesson: Right, talk to AMD
[03:48] <Amaranth> They dropped support for older cards
[03:49] <JorgeJorgesson> Amaranth: yeah...that will get nowhere....
[03:49] <bsnider> oh my gosh, will that do a lot of good.
[03:49] <Amaranth> The last driver they released that supports older cards does not work with xserver 1.6
[03:49] <Amaranth> So you cannot use it with 9.04 (or Fedora 11, etc)
[03:49] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: I guess you were right.    I just thought that the open source games in the repos would at least work decently
[03:50] <bsnider> they do if you have the nvidia driver
[03:51] <afallenhope> hey guys
[03:51] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: Not much good for an ATI card
[03:51] <bsnider> i agree
[03:51] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: this card works very well under XP.  Even runnng FlightSim X
[03:51] <afallenhope> what should I use? apt-get or aptitude?
[03:51] <bsnider> time for an nvidia card
[03:52] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: Laptop...not an option
[03:52] <bsnider> throw it on the trash pile
[03:52] <Amaranth> afallenhope: either, they mostly work the same
[03:52] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: Works fine with the original XP.
[03:53] <bsnider> old junk will work well once the gallium driver is done
[03:53] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: actually this is not junk.  It runs pretty well actually.
[03:53] <Amaranth> JorgeJorgesson: Unless (or even if) you have an nvidia card if you actually want to play games (other then xmoto) you want to dual boot
[03:54] <bsnider> not compared to new stuff it doesn't
[03:54] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: Understood
[03:54] <bsnider> anthying older than about 2 years is junk
[03:54] <JorgeJorgesson> Amaranth: I can see that now.
[03:55] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: For gaming yes
[03:55] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: Anything else, no
[03:55] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: I can only read email and surf the web so fast
[03:55] <bsnider> well i'm not saying you can't still use it, but it's junk
[03:56] <bsnider> if you had a new system based on the i7 with ddr3 ram you sure wouldn't want to go back to that thing, i'll tell you that
[03:56] <JorgeJorgesson> bsnider: Yup, I can only imagine.
[04:01] <JorgeJorgesson> Well, the rest of 9.04 seems to run very, very well.
[04:02] <bluefoxicy> why did everything just freeze for 10minutes
[04:02] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: clock skew
[04:02] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  no, everything turned grey and refused disk access
[04:02] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: apport and/or update-manager running?
[04:02] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  no
[04:03] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  performance degredation is massive, switching to fs type ext4 helped a lot but...
[04:03] <bluefoxicy> compared to the last release this is annoying.
[04:03] <bluefoxicy> I got a kernel update today but haven't rebooted into it.
[04:03] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: perhaps your problem is PREEMPT got turned off
[04:03] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  did that happen?
[04:04] <Jordan_U> bluefoxicy, Do you use and intel GPU?
[04:04] <Amaranth> I used to have massive IO problems until I turned that on
[04:04] <bluefoxicy> Jordan_U: Athlon 64
[04:04] <crdlb> it was on in intrepid?
[04:04] <Amaranth> oh yeah, and there are problems with UXA on intel
[04:04] <Amaranth> crdlb: I didn't really use intrepid...
[04:04] <bluefoxicy> CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y
[04:04] <Amaranth> I kind of went away from like alpha 1 until jaunty alpha 1
[04:04] <crdlb> heh
[04:04] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  preempt is on
[04:04] <crdlb> some people would tell you that you didn't miss anything
[04:05] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: Right, which basically means "no preempt at all if even one single kernel module doesn't support it"
[04:05] <JorgeJorgesson> Why does this trackerd take up so much of my cpu cycles for so long.....hours on end
[04:05] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: We used to have CONFIG_PREEMPT=y
[04:05] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  that would indicate that there's a severe locking problem somewhere, and preempt is hiding it.
[04:06] <Amaranth> crdlb: actually I do remember using it for a little bit around alpha 3 or so, intel performance sucked so I ditched it
[04:06] <Amaranth> ditched it for OS X, that is
[04:06] <bluefoxicy> shit.
[04:06] <bluefoxicy> I just tried to run synaptic and everything froze for 30 seconds again
[04:06] <bluefoxicy> zero disk activity
[04:06] <bluefoxicy> this is starting to piss me off.
[04:06] <Amaranth> yeah, that happened/happens to me
[04:07] <Amaranth> time to reboot
[04:07] <bluefoxicy> either ship a working kernel or give me a debug kernel that can log wtf is happening so someone can fix it
[04:08] <Amaranth> you guys see the ecryptfs fail?
[04:08] <Amaranth> whoa lag
[04:08] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  happening to you still huh?
[04:08] <Amaranth> bluefoxicy: I haven't seen anything that bad recently
[04:09] <Amaranth> But I build my own kernel with minstrel rate limiting and CONFIG_PREEMPT
[04:09] <Jordan_U> Amaranth, What ecryptfs fail?
[04:09] <Amaranth> Jordan_U: http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2009/03/attention-jaunty-alpha-ecryptfs-users.html
[04:10] <Cycom> anyone else have synergy move the mouse to the top left corner on all clients?
[04:11] <Amaranth> heh, someone made a chrome like browser with Qt and DBUS
[04:11] <Amaranth> The tabs are separate processes and you use XEmbed to stick them in the main window and they communicate using dbus
[04:12] <Amaranth> If the tab crashes, no problem
[04:12] <Amaranth> If the main app crashes all the tabs become separate windows again (and could detect that happened and grow full window chrome automatically)
[04:13] <bruce89> I'd rather have a browser that didn't crash at all
[04:13] <ripps> Um, if there are any MOTU here, can you go to #ubuntu-motu, I need some help with some packaging.
[04:13] <bluefoxicy> oh hell with this
[04:14] <bluefoxicy> i'm installing a rt kernel
[04:22] <Jordan_U> Amaranth, Link for the browser you were talking about?
[04:22] <Amaranth> Jordan_U: It was a proof of concept
[04:23] <Amaranth> Jordan_U: http://ivan.fomentgroup.org/blog/2009/03/29/instant-chrome/
[04:26] <JorgeJorgesson> I thought 9.04 was supposed to boot faster?  My computer boots about 20-30 seconds slower!  And no more startup bar screen either.  Just black
[04:26] <Mulder> it does boot faster
[04:26] <Mulder> heh
[04:26] <Mulder> JorgeJorgesson, are you using ext4?
[04:27] <JorgeJorgesson> Mulder: No, I just upgraded.
[04:27] <holdenss> maybe   make a comment like that when the full release is out, as bugs are still being dealt with
[04:27] <JorgeJorgesson> holdenss: I understand that
[04:27] <Mulder> i upgraded on saturday. redid everything as ext4.  i found my bootstrap tiime cut down by between 1/3 to 1/2
[04:27] <Mulder> i have an older computer though so maybe it's more evident for me
[04:28] <JorgeJorgesson> Mulder: Maybe the decreases are just for ext4 format drives
[04:31] <LiraNuna_> hey, I'm on 9.04 live CD
[04:31] <LiraNuna_> I just wanted to ask where the mist icon theme has gone to?
[04:31] <JorgeJorgesson> I will see what happens when the release version is out
[04:31] <JorgeJorgesson> *wait
[04:34] <JorgeJorgesson> LiraNuna_: I see mist in the themes.
[04:34] <LiraNuna_> did you upgrade from 8.04?
[04:34] <LiraNuna_> 8.10*
[04:34] <JorgeJorgesson> LiraNuna_: Under System>Appearances>themes
[04:35] <JorgeJorgesson> Sorry, System>Preferences>Theme
[04:35] <Halow> LiraNuna_: They put it into a package in Universe, called "gnome-themes" since they put some new themes in by default.
[04:35] <LiraNuna_> Halow, ah, let's see
[04:36] <Halow> It's my favored theme. I thought they were laying the axe to it altogether for a moment. :O
[04:36] <LiraNuna_> same here, I gone into panic mode
[04:37] <LiraNuna_> goes well with clearlooks
[04:37] <LiraNuna_> woot, thanks Halow
[04:37] <Halow> LiraNuna_: Welcome. :)
[04:37] <LiraNuna_> beta's looking good so far
[04:39] <holdenss> check out this theme https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Jaunty/Impression/   my fav so far, reminds me  of the mac osx gui in a way
[04:41] <LiraNuna_> http://liranuna.com/junk/pouet-desktop.png
[04:41] <Mulder> i dislike that window border theme
[04:42] <holdenss> mulder, which one?
[04:42] <Mulder> in the impression and pouet
[04:42] <Mulder> heh
[04:42] <Mulder> pouet just looks like clearlooks
[04:42] <holdenss> impression looks rad
[04:42] <LiraNuna_> eh, ignore the word 'pouet' it's not the theme name
[04:42] <Mulder> those close, minimise etc icons look really tacky
[04:42] <LiraNuna_> it is clearlooks
[04:43] <Halow> Impression is nice. I still love my Mist, though. :P
[04:43] <Mulder> clearlooks isnt bad but not slick enough for my tastes
[04:43] <holdenss> mulder, they've kinda copied the mac icons and made it their own branding out of it
[04:45] <LiraNuna_> that new "New Wave" theme looks interesting
[04:45] <bruce89> I don't know why they insist with weird pixmap scrollbars
[04:45] <holdenss> what do you think of the desktop artwork included, i like juantysimple
[04:46] <Mulder> new wave is not bad
[04:46] <Mulder> needs to be improved though
[04:46] <LiraNuna_> too dark to my taste, but still has an interesting spice
[04:46] <Mulder> i'm basically using human right now with new wave border theme and different wallpaper
[04:46] <holdenss> not the default dark background, but the light one with the cirlces
[04:47] <Halow> They were... too simple. I'd seen a cute one with a jackalope under an old tree that looked a bit like it was branded onto leather. Too bad it wasn't included.
[04:47] <holdenss> wallpaper*
[04:47] <Mulder> need to start paying some artists to come up with some good themes
[04:47] <Mulder> heh
[04:47] <DanaG>     - Remove Adobe Reader from list of applications to Add/Remove.  Since it's not in the repo, but installed during oem-config, user can't actually re-add it if they remove it.  LP: #310784
[04:47] <holdenss> it should be all about community though
[04:48] <LiraNuna_> what's that new announce system?
[04:48] <LiraNuna_> I saw the flash video of it
[04:48] <holdenss> ext4?
[04:48] <DanaG> New Wave is a bit too gloomy for me.
[04:48] <Mulder> well, put a bounty on it, and let the community sort it out in a competition
[04:48] <LiraNuna_> holdenss, no, that's a file system
[04:48] <bruce89> LiraNuna_: ich, notify-osd I suppose
[04:48] <LiraNuna_> bruce89, is it a new libnotify?
[04:48] <DanaG> About the only not-at-all-gloomy dark theme is HP's glassy-bleu theme:  www.csc.calpoly.edu/~dgoyette/screenshot-glassybleu.png
[04:48] <LiraNuna_> it looks mac-ish :/
[04:48] <bruce89> LiraNuna_: no, a new notification daemon
[04:49] <bruce89> LiraNuna_: where do you think the idea came from?
[04:49] <LiraNuna_> it looks like mac grawl :/
[04:49]  * LiraNuna_ dislikes mac os x
[04:49]  * bruce89 dislikes notify-sd
[04:49] <holdenss> its growl
[04:49] <holdenss> and its awesome
[04:50] <Amaranth> the hell it is
[04:50]  * bruce89 won't start, don't worry you lot
[04:50] <LiraNuna_> grr mac fanboys :(
[04:50]  * Amaranth thinks none of you actually use OS X
[04:50] <Amaranth> gah lag again
[04:50] <holdenss> well i personally use mac osx and ubuntu, dual boot
[04:51]  * crdlb has only used OS X for about 5 minutes
[04:51] <holdenss> the beta has got a heat issue at the moment, and the bug has been reported just hoping it'll get fixed soon
[04:51] <LiraNuna_> heat issue?
[04:51] <holdenss> a heat issue on the new macbook aluminum, macbook 5,1
[04:52] <askvictor1> does grub work OK with ext4?
[04:52] <bruce89> wow, new hardware doesn't like an oldish kernel?
[04:52] <bruce89> askvictor1: ext4 here with grub2
[04:52] <Halow> Grub works great with ext4.
[04:52] <askvictor1> rock
[04:52] <Halow> The new one anyway. ;)
[04:52] <crdlb> is 'great' really necessary? :)
[04:53] <crdlb> I mean it either works or it doesn't
[04:53] <Mulder> something like http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Almond+(5+version)?content=39632&PHPSESSID=44e99bffd9d88d78a1e85a50f6783393 is nice
[04:53] <Halow> Fine? Up to par? It boots so much faster. :/
[04:53] <Mulder> except the icons need to be bigger
[04:53] <bruce89> not that grub has anything to do with that
[04:54] <holdenss> mulder, how ironic that there is a 'win a mac' ad on a gnome site lol
[04:54] <LiraNuna_> ads?
[04:54] <Amaranth> gnome-look.org is not a GNOME site
[04:55] <holdenss> advertisement* ok  my bad
[04:55] <LiraNuna_> holdenss, get adblock
[04:55] <Mulder> holdenss, haha
[04:55] <bruce89> good old epiphany-extensions
[04:56] <LiraNuna_> oh right, I have yet to try epiphany
[04:56] <Mulder> when is human going to get ported to a compiz theme engine anyway? heh
[04:56] <LiraNuna_> no epiphany-webkit?
[04:56]  * DanaG asks ubottu: bug 296967
[04:56]  * Mulder recalls that was flagged for hardy?
[04:56] <DanaG> ... as expected.
[04:56] <bruce89> LiraNuna_: not yet
[04:57] <crdlb> Mulder: "compiz theme engine"?
[04:57] <crdlb> if you mean emerald, there's no way ubuntu would use that by default
[04:57] <crdlb> as it is buggy abandonware
[04:58] <Mulder> i dont mean emerald
[04:58] <Amaranth> Mulder: compiz theme engine?
[04:58] <Amaranth> Mulder: compiz has no theme system
[04:58] <crdlb> I already asked that!
[04:58] <Mulder> doesnt it?
[04:58] <LiraNuna_> haha, computer janitor
[04:58] <Amaranth> crdlb: I don't read ahead
[04:58] <Amaranth> err, behind
[04:59] <crdlb> read behind then
[04:59] <Amaranth> Mulder: emerald isn't even in the repos anymoe
[04:59] <LiraNuna_> for the people who can't do apt-get autoremove?
[04:59] <Amaranth> It is completely unmaintained and unsupported (and has been for a couple years)
[04:59] <crdlb> it's still in universe
[04:59] <bruce89> LiraNuna_: or use aptitude
[04:59] <Amaranth> !info emerald jaunty
[04:59] <Mulder> i thought compiz used its own theming system
[04:59] <Mulder> separate from emerald
[04:59] <Amaranth> hrm, someone told me it was gone
[04:59]  * crdlb likes the idea of computer-janitor
[05:00] <Amaranth> Mulder: nope, just the stock gtk-window-decorator look (non-themeable), metacity themes, and kwin4 themes
[05:00] <bruce89> you'd be surprised the number of people who have loads of old kernels lying around
[05:00] <Amaranth> Mulder: You're probably talking about my blog post :/
[05:01] <torkiano> hello all, someone with problems with java applets?
[05:01] <crdlb> Amaranth: about making a new decorator?
[05:01] <torkiano> http://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/ not load the applet
[05:01] <holdenss> is emerald gone?
[05:01] <Mulder> Amaranth, maybe. was this made a year or so ago about revamping the hardy theme ?
[05:01] <torkiano> and cpu is in 100%
[05:01] <Mulder> there was discussion in there about murrine and what not
[05:02] <askvictor1> What does the topic refer to?
[05:02] <Amaranth> crdlb: yeah, that's what I'm thinking
[05:02] <crdlb> askvictor1: the python problem is long fixed
[05:02] <askvictor1> crdlb: thanks
[05:03] <LiraNuna_> meh, they still didn't fix the SVN plugin for anjuta?
[05:03]  * crdlb suggests the svn plugin for bash
[05:03] <bruce89> LiraNuna_: svn is history
[05:04] <LiraNuna_> bruce89, eh?
[05:04] <crdlb> he is referring to git
[05:04] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, it's nice when your IDE does the job for you
[05:04] <afallenhope> found a bug or maybe permissions error.
[05:04] <afallenhope> can't set the background if I set it to "single image"
[05:04] <LiraNuna_> but there IS an svn plugin for anjuta, why don't they just include them :/
[05:05] <LiraNuna_> it*
[05:07] <LiraNuna_> there's a CVS plugin and git plugin, why isn't the svn one included
[05:12] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: a bug, probably
[05:12] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, it has been like that since 8.04
[05:13] <kholerabbi> did grub2 make it into jaunty?
[05:13] <afallenhope> how come CTRL + ALT + backspace doesn't work for restarting x?
[05:13] <LiraNuna_> they disabled it
[05:13] <afallenhope> bah
[05:13] <afallenhope> gay. how do I restart it?
[05:13] <LiraNuna_> sudo /etc/init.d/gdm restart
[05:13] <holdenss> grub 2?
[05:14] <holdenss> wait, why did they disable ctrl + alt + delete for restarting x?
[05:14] <kholerabbi> yes
[05:14] <LiraNuna_> it was causing people problems, I guess
[05:14] <kholerabbi> there is a terminal code to re enable.. wait a sec
[05:14] <LiraNuna_> "#
[05:14] <LiraNuna_> Ctrl-Alt-Backspace is now disabled, to reduce issues experienced by users who accidentally trigger the key combo. Users who do want this function can enable it in their xorg.conf, or via the command dontzap --disable.
[05:14] <LiraNuna_> "
[05:14] <LiraNuna_> whoops, sorry for that
[05:15] <LiraNuna_> that was supposed to come up in one line
[05:15] <kholerabbi> well done
[05:16] <QPrime> you can still kill all terminal processes (including X) with <alt><SysRq><k>  it should respawn.
[05:16] <QPrime> same basic effect when in X, but implemented in the kernel.
[05:18] <LiraNuna_> what do you know, it works
[05:18] <LiraNuna_> I never knew what SysRq is
[05:18] <kholerabbi> me niether :P
[05:18] <QPrime> at first I was very much opposed to the removal, but I'm slowly coming around.
[05:19] <holdenss> i don't have a sysrq key on my keyboard
[05:19] <QPrime> nice think is, because its a kernel function, it will kill a hung X session when <crtl><alt><bkspace> won't
[05:19] <LiraNuna_> holdenss, it's Print Screen
[05:19] <QPrime> holdenss: do you have a print screen key?
[05:19] <holdenss> nope
[05:20] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: yeah, the check is just failing
[05:20] <QPrime> holdenss: errr... what keyboard are you using?  US_qwery layout?
[05:20] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, what check?
[05:21] <crdlb> for svn
[05:21] <holdenss> qprime, im using apple mac keyboards, they don't have a print screen function
[05:21] <LiraNuna_> oh, I think you need libsvn1
[05:21] <LiraNuna_> +-1ve
[05:21] <LiraNuna_> -dev*
[05:21] <holdenss> might have to get my dads pc keyboard, or map the print screen function to something else
[05:21] <QPrime> holdenss: ouch... should be a metakey combo for it in your kernel build.
[05:22] <holdenss> :
[05:22] <holdenss> :(  *
[05:22] <holdenss> brb
[05:22] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, think their problem is including libsvn1 as an anjuta dependency?
[05:22] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: it installs both of those
[05:23] <crdlb> (I'm looking at the build log on launchpad)
[05:23] <LiraNuna_> oh, so their check fails?
[05:23] <LiraNuna_> (can I get a link to that page, please?)
[05:23] <crdlb> it fails to find 'svn-config' first of all which may or may not be fatal
[05:23] <crdlb> ubuntu doesn't seem to have that binary at all
[05:23] <crdlb> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta/2:<IP_ADDRESS>-0ubuntu1/+build/910336
[05:24] <LiraNuna_> thank you
[05:24] <crdlb> then it does this hacky check to verify that svn is at least 1.5.1 (it's 1.5.4), but that fails too
[05:24] <LiraNuna_> "libsvn-dev: missing"
[05:24] <crdlb> which definitely is fatal, but it may have been caused by svn-config being missing
[05:24] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: keep scrolling
[05:24] <LiraNuna_> it shows a bunch of stuff missing, which I know anjuta won't be happy about
[05:24] <crdlb> nah
[05:25] <LiraNuna_> "Building subversion plugin: ............................NO"
[05:25] <crdlb> because of the errors
[05:26] <crdlb> zgrep -i it for svn and subversion
[05:26] <Rubin> hrm. seems the intel graphics support is even worse, instead of better, as i'd hoped. scorched locks the entire system hard every time now
[05:26] <LiraNuna_> Rubin, they said they got problems with that driver
[05:26] <crdlb> note in particular: checking if subversion support is disabled... no
[05:27] <Rubin> LiraNuna_, its been broken for years, yeah.
[05:27] <LiraNuna_> haha
[05:27] <Rubin> but now it hangs instantly instead of 'after a while' ;)
[05:27] <crdlb> games + open source driver == bad
[05:27] <crdlb> unfortunately
[05:27] <LiraNuna_> "Users of Intel video chipsets have reported performance regressions in Ubuntu 8.10 compared with previous releases. (252094) Although these performance issues have not been resolved by default in Ubuntu 9.04, a new experimental acceleration architecture option, DRI2/UXA, is available for Intel graphics users"
[05:28] <Rubin> hmm thanks lira, i'll look at that
[05:28] <Rubin> but its not that its slow, for me
[05:28] <Rubin> who knows tho
[05:29] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, I want to file a bug but they'll probably mark it as low priority and no one will care
[05:30] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: it's better than not filing a bug ...
[05:30] <crdlb> if I had the config.log I could tell you exactly why it failed
[05:30] <LiraNuna_> I understand
[05:31] <crdlb> hmm, only 70MB of build-deps
[05:32] <Jordan_U> If you use UXA on intel in jaunty will you get redirected direct rendering?
[05:32] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta/+bug/351361
[05:32] <LiraNuna_> let's hope it'll get answered
[05:32] <crdlb> Jordan_U: that's a good question
[05:33] <crdlb> I know they have GEM in the kernel now, but it may need KMS too
[05:34] <Jordan_U> crdlb, I don't see how redirected direct rendering would require Kernel Mode Setting. With my limited understanding they seem fairly separate
[05:34] <crdlb> I know they're all related
[05:35] <crdlb> but maybe it's the other way around (KMS needs the others)
[05:35] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: got it
[05:36] <crdlb> wait, no I don't, but i have the log
[05:38] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, if you can post your findings in the bug report, I bet it'll be helpful
[05:38] <LiraNuna_> also, thanks for doing this
[05:38] <LiraNuna_> I wish I had that kind of knowledge
[05:42] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: ah, simple problem
[05:42] <LiraNuna_> autotools for me is voodoo magic
[05:43] <LiraNuna_> I actually write my own custom makefiles
[05:43] <crdlb> it's missing the headers for libneon
[05:45] <LiraNuna_> interesting
[05:45] <crdlb> I'm not sure which package is right though
[05:45] <LiraNuna_> libneon26 - An HTTP and WebDAV client library
[05:45] <crdlb> libneon27-gnutls-dev made configure pass
[05:46] <LiraNuna_> SVN uses DAV
[05:46] <crdlb> but there's also a libneon27-dev, which conflicts against it
[05:46] <crdlb> (and the binary packages for both are installed here)
[05:46] <LiraNuna_> there seem to be libneon25, 26 and 27
[05:47] <crdlb> svn depends on the -gnutls one, so I'm going to say I made the right choice
[05:47] <crdlb> yeah, those are different ABIs
[05:47] <LiraNuna_> I see
[05:47] <crdlb> the check is for .28, which is satisfied by the -27 package
[05:47] <crdlb> (the abi didn't change, so they didn't make a new package)
[05:49] <crdlb> hmm, libsvn1-dev has libneon27-gnutls-dev as only Suggests
[05:49] <crdlb> I wonder if anjuta really needs it
[05:50] <DanaG> argh, danged apt-preferences can't do wildcards!
[05:50] <Naynay> Sound volume seems to be controlled by each indiviual application at the moment. The gnome panel volume control seems to be ineffective.
[05:51] <Naynay> adobe flashplugin, amarok, etc volume can only be controlled by the volume knob on the application
[05:52] <LiraNuna_> Naynay, works here - try setting "Master" under sys->perf->sound
[05:55] <Naynay> sorry? Where's the master setting
[05:55] <crdlb> LiraNuna_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/anjuta/+bug/282160
[05:55] <Naynay> by default my sound settings are set to use OSS
[05:55] <holdenss> hey i just got back from using ubuntu on my macbook, on the system manager, it says i've got 3.5 gb of ram when i've got 4, whats happened?
[05:55] <holdenss> jaunty*
[05:56] <crdlb> it's hard to search for 'svn' when most of the references are spurious :/
[05:56] <SwedeMike> holdenss: are you running 32bit version of ubuntu?
[05:56] <LiraNuna_> crdlb, ah, an old bug
[05:56] <crdlb> yeah :>
[05:57] <LiraNuna_> "wishlist" <_<
[05:57] <crdlb> you might want to post about the missing libneon27-gnutls-dev on there
[05:58] <holdenss> swedemike, im running 64 bit
[05:58] <LiraNuna_> Naynay, system->perf->sound / devices tab / bottom, select your soundcard's HDA option (HDA NVidia in my case) and then select "Master" from the list
[05:58] <SwedeMike> holdenss: perhaps it uses some memory as shared graphics memory?
[05:59] <holdenss> swedemike, maybe but i still found it odd, the idea of 64 bit is to take advantage of the 4gb of memory
[06:00] <SwedeMike> holdenss: if your platform allocates 512 megs of ram as shared graphics memory, it's hard to use it for anything else. I don't know mac:s, so I'm not sure that happens, but I know there are platforms that works that way.
[06:01] <holdenss> mk thanks
[06:02] <Amaranth> I've only got 1.8GB of my 2GB RAM
[06:02] <Amaranth> same reason, I'm sure
[06:03] <Amaranth> Memory reserved for the kernel and the integrated graphics will not show
[06:07] <Jordan_U> When I try to boot the jaunty beta LiveCD I get an error that the CD could not be read, I have verified that the CD burned properly
[06:13] <Naynay> OK, trying to fix the sound doesn't work
[06:13] <Naynay> My machine has Intel ICH6
[06:14] <Naynay> I'm playing around with the default mixer tracks option
[06:14] <Naynay> Tried using the ICH6 alsa option, but that made amarok hate me
[06:15] <Naynay> it defaulted to pulse audio. The gnome panel still can't control the amarok volume
[06:23] <Jordan_U> Naynay, Make sure that Amarok is using pulseaudio
[06:23] <Naynay> it made sure of that itself
[06:25] <Jordan_U> Naynay, Right click the applet and choose preferences
[06:26] <Naynay> the tray sound icon you mean?
[06:26] <Naynay> amarok still thinks I'm using alsa
[06:26] <Naynay> I'm using the PLayback ICH6 pulseaudio
[06:27] <Naynay> set to master
[06:27] <Naynay> sorry, this isn't helping
[06:29] <LiraNuna_> flashplugin-nonfree on 64bit hadn't been upgraded to use the 64bit build on jaunty?
[06:31] <LiraNuna_> Naynay, try setting it to ALSA
[06:31] <Naynay> been there, done that, got the t-shirt, didn't help
[06:32] <LiraNuna_> I got ICH9, so I can't say anything for the driver
[06:41] <afallenhope> sorry what do I need for this to work? ./install.sfx.30960: not found
[06:41] <Jordan_U> afallenhope, What are you trying to install?
[06:42] <afallenhope> Jordan_U, java the latest  update
[06:42] <afallenhope> http://www.64bitjungle.com/ubuntu/install-java-jre-160-update-x-on-hardy-as-the-default-java-runtime/
[06:43] <Jordan_U> afallenhope, What is wrong with the version of java in the repos?
[06:43] <afallenhope> Jordan_U, it's out date and contains exploits
[06:43] <askvictor> if I want to format a partition with ext4, does mkfs.ext4 use extents and all the new goodies?
[06:44] <afallenhope> Jordan_U, also I would like to install 32 bit java
[06:45] <afallenhope> Jordan_U, was just a bad archive
[06:46] <mjheagle8> hello, i'm having a problem with notify-osd and my brightness not working. can anybody help me with this?
[06:47] <Jordan_U> mjheagle8, What is not working about notify-osd? Are you not getting any notifications? Getting an error? etc
[06:47] <mjheagle8> i'm getting all my notifications fine, except for brightness. it changes, but i see no notification that handles the brightness.
[06:51] <mjheagle8> Jordan_U, do you know what could be causing this problem? or how i could fix it?
[06:51] <Jordan_U> mjheagle8, No
[06:51] <mjheagle8> oh darn.
[06:52] <mjheagle8> thanks anyways.
[06:54] <Jordan_U> mjheagle8, You might want to check if any bug has been filed or if not file one yourself, I don't have a laptop available right now so I can't confirm the bug
[06:57] <mjheagle8> i have discovered a bug online.
[06:57] <mjheagle8> incomplete theme apparently.
[06:58] <mjheagle8> thanks for the suggestion.
[07:02] <afallenhope> where's the i32-lib in jaunty?
[07:03] <ripps> Does anybody here know how to cut the "ubuntu" and "ppa" fields from the string "libmpd_0.18.1+git090318-0ubuntu1~ppa1"?
[07:03] <homerhomer> I was looking around today at Jaunty and I noticed that the flash non-free is selecting the 32bit version with ndiswrapper, this seems really silly because there is a 64bit version out and it works really well
[07:03] <ripps> I'm working an automated packaging script.
[07:03] <holdenss> homerhomer, yeah i noticed the same thing, hope its fixed for final release
[07:06] <billybigrigger> ndiswrapper+flash=constant crashes for me
[07:06] <homerhomer> also the restricted extras point to the ice tea plugin too
[07:06] <homerhomer> I'm going take a walk over to launchpad
[07:08] <afallenhope> anyone know where you can get the i32 libs? for 64 bit?
[07:09] <crdlb> ripps: what exactly do you want? the numbers after ubuntu and ppa?
[07:17] <pwnguin> QPrime: did it work? (sorry for the belated, ive been detached for a while)
[07:18] <ripps> crdlb: nevermind, I found someone on google who accomplished using sed
[07:19] <ripps> Here's the script I made: http://paste.ubuntu.com/140545/
[07:19] <afallenhope> how do I disable ipv6?
[07:19] <ripps> It creates an orig tarball, builds source package, and uploads package to repository using dput.
[07:19] <crdlb> ripps: yay regex :/
[07:20] <ripps> If anyone can find a way to improve my script, please feel free to contribute
[07:20] <Tekno> afallenhope: add to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf: blacklist ipv6
[07:21] <afallenhope> ty
[07:21] <crdlb> its not a module anymore
[07:21] <crdlb> so that won't work
[07:21] <Tekno> :o
[07:21] <QPrime> (08:18:33 PM) QPrime: pwnguin: ...and it was said unto QPrime by pwnguin, "verily, install libdrm-nouveau1 and all will be well".  And so it was done.   And sprung forth a veritable bounty of FLOSS goodness onto QPrime dual monitor setup.  And it was good.
[07:22] <QPrime> pwnguin: worked perfectly.  thank you.
[07:22] <Jordan_U> afallenhope, Try using a DNS server that's worth a damn like openDNS ( unless the problem is with your router )
[07:23] <afallenhope> Jordan_U, opendns won't work with my router good dns though
[07:24] <QPrime> pwnguin: looking forward to testing nouveau and watching it improve even further.
[07:24] <pwnguin> indeed
[07:25] <crdlb> how common is it for ISPs to break with ipv6 enabled?
[07:28] <QPrime> crdlb: I imagine that they would simply not route the packets.
[07:29] <rww> crdlb: not very common these days, but it does happen
[07:30] <crdlb> it seems like "how do I disable ipv6?" is a rather popular question here :/
[07:31] <homerhomer> my new bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-restricted-extras/+bug/351389
[07:31] <homerhomer> nice robot!
[07:35] <Jordan_U> crdlb, My ISP ( until last year ) would silently ignore ipv6 DNS queries but would route ipv6 packets so switching to openDNS solved the problem for me
[07:36]  * crdlb uses verizon's alternate DNS (without the "dns assistance" spam)
[08:14] <frybye> hi - I just installed azureus/vuze in jaunty but cant find the GUI that one normally has in vuze - any tips??
[08:17] <rar_> is kernel bug "Sense Key : No Sense [current]" already fixed?
[08:47] <cwillu_clone> #bug 330824
[08:48] <cwillu_clone> If ubuntu-kernel-team isn't listed in the subscribers for the above, does it make sense for me to add them?
[08:48] <cwillu_clone> theo of ext4 fame has been investigating it, but I didn't get the impression he was part of ubuntu's team
[08:52] <cwillu_clone> turns out I haven't had a proper backup run in 3 weeks because my machines keep locking up due to the above :)
[08:52]  * crdlb coughs
[08:52]  * cwillu_clone pokes crdlb with a stick
[08:52]  * cwillu_clone pokes his other machine with a stick, it just hung again while backing up
[08:57] <cwillu_clone> stupid sunday nights :(
[08:58]  * cwillu_clone just wants someone to tell him it'll all be okay; that somebody will keep the big bad bug away :(
[08:58] <holdenss> its monday night damm it!
[08:58] <cwillu_clone> monday morning
[08:59] <LordKow> how long should it take for a ppa upload to show up in the build records for that particular ppa?
[09:02] <LordKow> ah there it is
[09:16] <syockit> cwillu_clone: thx for the link. that explains why I get all those lockup when deleting old movies. But that has nothing to do with lockup when deleting linux source code, right?
[09:18] <cwillu_clone> syockit, no, it does
[09:18] <CosmicChaos_> can we make 11.04 = naugty nymph? *g*
[09:18] <cwillu_clone> I have it happen during my nightly backup, which mostly consists of very small files getting deleted
[09:18] <syockit> nymph is an animal?
[09:19] <CosmicChaos_> its a human, and till human is created by nature
[09:19] <cwillu_clone> it's deletes in general during other io activity, as far as I can tell
[09:19] <cwillu_clone> I'm trying to build a script to hang on demand right now :)
[09:19] <syockit> testcase, you mean
[09:19] <cwillu_clone> syockit, exploit, rather :p
[09:20] <cwillu_clone> I wouldn't be surprised to see it exploitable with as little as a flash movie in a browser writing to the disk in a particular fashion
[09:24] <cwillu_clone> BUGabundo, want a new pet bug?
[09:24]  * cwillu_clone ties a ribbon around #330824's neck
[09:26] <Jordan_U> Why is  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/landscape-client/+bug/332518 marked as invalid?
[09:26] <BUGabundo> guud morning
[09:26] <BUGabundo> hey cwillu_clone
[09:27] <BUGabundo> cwillu_clone: I let landscape go long time ago
[09:27] <BUGabundo> when I filed 3 or 4 bugs, and learned it was meant for Corporates and not users
[09:27] <cwillu_clone> BUGabundo, that's not the bug I linked :p
[09:27] <BUGabundo> ahh ROFL
[09:27] <BUGabundo> bug 330824
[09:27] <BUGabundo> cwillu_clone: I don't use ext4
[09:27] <BUGabundo> ext3 + XFS are my game
[09:28] <BUGabundo> but thanks for the heads up
[09:28] <BUGabundo> many many jaunty testers want to try E4
[09:28] <cwillu_clone> didn't realize until just recently why both my laptop and desktop freeze on a regular basis, even though they have literally no hardware in common
[09:28] <cwillu_clone> (intel chipset vs nvidia chipset, etc)
[09:29] <cwillu_clone> argggh
[09:29] <cwillu_clone> ubuntu installs a sitecustomize.py in /usr/lib/python2.5, and that file is _not_ for their use
[09:29] <cwillu_clone> we went through this same thing when 2.5 came out :(
[09:32] <BUGabundo> ehehe
[09:37] <BUGabundo> cwillu_clone: soft read of the bug, and I see that too
[09:37] <BUGabundo> on my system
[09:38] <cwillu_clone> wait, on ext3?
[09:38] <BUGabundo> on XFS for HOME
[09:38] <cwillu_clone> wanna note that on the bug?
[09:38] <BUGabundo> XFS is very similar to E4
[09:38] <BUGabundo> let me re-read it again
[09:38] <BUGabundo> just to make sure
[09:39] <BUGabundo> as I said... it was soft read
[09:39] <BUGabundo> I always accused my soft locks to low disk space
[09:39] <BUGabundo> or Nvidia driver
[09:39] <BUGabundo> or some memory leak!
[09:42] <BUGabundo> cwillu_clone: diff prob.... those are mostly all rm related
[09:42] <BUGabundo> not my prob, nor do I get full system lock
[09:43] <BUGabundo> just temp sys lock, and then usable again
[09:53] <Kangarooo1> ok so i installed xubuntu 9.04 and i got someking info messedge about reseting settings.. and a command to enter in terminal but i think it didnt work
[09:53] <Kangarooo1> the command is asoundconf set-default-card
[09:53] <rar_> Does anyone also see this error? Usb Hard Drive Not Accessible (see Launchpad #264789)
[09:53] <holdenss> kangaroo1, you aussie!!!
[09:53] <Kangarooo1> and terminal said You have omitted a necessary parameter.  Please see the output from `asoundconf list`, and use one of those sound card(s) as the parameter.
[09:54] <Kangarooo1> no im not australian im Latvian
[09:54] <holdenss> what the?
[10:01] <cwillu_clone> rar_, you have cause to believe the fix wasn't actually commited?  (noting that fix-commited != fix-released, you may have to wait a while before the fix actually gets into the repository)
[10:02]  * BUGabundo broke its system.... messing with gconf is a bed idea!
[10:03] <BUGabundo> cwillu_clone: any idea where to turn caps lock off??? I enabled it on startup via gconf
[10:03] <cwillu_clone> BUGabundo, beyond turning it back off via gconf?
[10:04] <BUGabundo> if I knew where to look!
[10:04] <BUGabundo> did that yesterday afternoon
[10:04] <BUGabundo> can't remember where now...
[10:04] <BUGabundo> nothing in /desktop/gnome/accessibility/keyboard/togglekeys_enable
[10:04] <cwillu_clone> wasn't something you added to the session startup?
[10:05] <BUGabundo> dunno
[10:05] <BUGabundo> I think it was a conf on Keyboard Lock Keys applet
[10:06] <cwillu_clone> something in /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard?
[10:07]  * BUGabundo looking
[10:07] <BUGabundo> been there... nothing
[10:07] <BUGabundo> no option to make Caps On on login
[10:08] <BUGabundo> even Find won't find anything
[10:08] <BUGabundo> /apps/panel/applets/applet_11/prefs/capslock_state
[10:08] <BUGabundo> think this is it
[10:09] <BUGabundo> cleared!
[10:09] <BUGabundo> uff
[10:12] <rww> c-c-c-combo breaker
[10:14] <BUGabundo> rww: ah?
[10:15] <BUGabundo> hey did *everyone* in here already run $ checkbox-gtk ???
[10:39] <balachmar> Hi, anyone using the evolution mapi plugin here? It is eating my memory like crazy! Evolution is using 2.1 G of memory now (virtually) And it causes my machine to go swapping!
[10:40] <BUGabundo> balachmar: there was a call for testing a few weeks ago
[10:40] <BUGabundo> I remember reading it on Planet Ubuntu
[10:40] <BUGabundo> please file a bug, or try to find the dev behing the plugin to let him know
[10:41] <balachmar> Well, the first bug was to get it configured, but that bug has already been filed. Somehow it works better to create an empty profile and edit that to be mapi than straight away. Straight away makes it crash :)
[10:45] <Kangarooo1> ok so i installed xubuntu 9.04 and i got someking info messedge about reseting settings.. and a command to enter in terminal but i think it didnt work
[10:45] <Kangarooo1> the command is asoundconf set-default-card
[10:45] <Kangarooo1> and terminal said You have omitted a necessary parameter.  Please see the output from `asoundconf list`, and use one of those sound card(s) as the parameter.
[10:46] <Kangarooo1> have anone got info messege about someking cofig reseting?
[11:07] <cwillu_clone> might have a repeatable testcase
[11:07] <cwillu_clone> syockit,
[11:08] <cwillu_clone> just waiting for the machine to come back, and then I'll try to hang it again
[11:09] <cwillu_clone> writing a few k to a thousand files, dropping the cache via /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches, writing a k to another thousand files, rm'ing the whole mess, and repeating 10 times
[11:09] <cwillu_clone> aka, it's still probabilistic, but more consistent than 'back up your drive'
[11:13] <BUGabundo> nice of you to try cwillu_clone
[11:19] <ActionParsnip1> yo yo yo
[11:20] <ActionParsnip1> is anyone having low resolution issues after installing nvidia-glx-180
[11:20] <ActionParsnip1> i get nice anims and all that fluff, just can't get higher than 640x480 resolution
[11:20] <ActionParsnip1> can anyone please advise
[11:20] <cwillu_clone> ActionParsnip1, crt?
[11:20] <ActionParsnip1> crt indeed
[11:21] <cwillu_clone> crt isn't reporting edid info, ran into that on an intrepid install a few days ago
[11:21] <ActionParsnip1> after a sudo nvidia-xconfig, restart and kdesudo nvidia-settings I am only permitted to set 640x480
[11:21] <cwillu_clone> an xorg.conf file with the modelines for the resolutions you want will work
[11:21] <cwillu_clone> unfortunately, we don't seem to have any tools to generate those anymore :p
[11:21] <ActionParsnip1> cwillu_clone: i'm not bad with xorg.conf
[11:21] <cwillu_clone> ActionParsnip1, how are you with modelines?
[11:22] <ActionParsnip1> cwillu_clone: not bad, is that all i need?
[11:22] <cwillu_clone> yep
[11:22] <ActionParsnip1> cool
[11:22] <ActionParsnip1> thanks chief :D
[11:22] <cwillu_clone> that's "modeline", not merely "modes"
[11:22] <ActionParsnip1> otherwise the beta is stable and a lot faster
[11:22] <ActionParsnip1> gotcha
[11:23] <ActionParsnip1> i'm at work right now but i'll hack it out later
[11:25] <BUGabundo> anyone needs a set of tests from a daily image on usb?
[11:25] <BUGabundo> booting one now on an old pc to remove win virus
[11:25] <digitaloktay> hi
[11:26] <cwillu_clone> okay, this hangs repeatably after a few rounds:  http://pastebin.com/f4c679037
[11:26] <cwillu_clone> sudo python <that file>
[11:26] <cwillu_clone> gonna try it on this machine, brb hopefully :p
[11:29] <o0Chris0o> anyone confirm the bug with tracker indexing and email? every time I check my email using evolution, its really, really slow, hangs...takes forever to delete and email..I have to force quit it each time
[11:32]  * cwillu patiently wats for his laptop to hang
[11:32] <o0Chris0o> heh
[11:33] <cwillu> s/wats/waits/
[11:41] <Kangarooo1> I found Big Bug
[11:41] <Kangarooo1> in Xubuntu 9.04
[11:42] <o0Chris0o> Kangarooo1: report it in launchpad?
[11:42] <eagles0513875> Kangarooo1: what is the bug and also report it on launchpad
[11:42] <Kangarooo1> clock shows 13:41 but in latvia its now 13
[11:42] <Kangarooo1> 12 :41
[11:42] <holdenss> daylight savings?
[11:42] <Kangarooo1> lauchpad?
[11:43] <Kangarooo1> i know that linux automaticaly changes time to all computers..
[11:43] <Kangarooo1> but now its wrong..
[11:43] <Kangarooo1> yesterday it was right..
[11:43] <eagles0513875> does it do it in intrepid
[11:43] <Kangarooo1> actually i think that 2h ago it was right
[11:44] <o0Chris0o> Kangarooo1: make sure your  settings for your local time is right
[11:44] <Kangarooo1> in all ubuntus clock times are downloaded with update..
[11:44] <cwillu_remote> and we have hardlock!
[11:44] <o0Chris0o> Kangarooo1: also, does latavia have daylight savings?
[11:44] <Kangarooo1> yes
[11:44] <o0Chris0o> want to make sure that is off
[11:45] <o0Chris0o> I think, I'm not sure
[11:45] <Kangarooo1> and yesterday we put our clocks 1h back and colputer did that too but i looked now at time and on phone .. and they dont match :)
[11:45] <o0Chris0o> and your phone?
[11:45] <o0Chris0o> hmm
[11:46] <o0Chris0o> you should double check the time settings under preferences
[11:46] <Kangarooo1> lol :D
[11:46] <Kangarooo1> in one webpage time is also too fast
[11:46] <eagles0513875> Kangarooo1: i have jaunty in a virtual machine and for me its still the right time
[11:47] <o0Chris0o> showing the right time for me as well
[11:47] <Kangarooo1> faak- stupid phone .. i cahnged it yesterday 1 hour back manually and today i t changed itself automatically 1 h back :D
[11:48] <Kangarooo1> false alarm :)
[11:49] <o0Chris0o> Kangarooo1: Cell phone networks usually does that autmaticly
[12:06] <nacho> Hi
[12:08] <nacho> since I've reinstalled the cpu freq applet starts with the processor on performance mode, do you know how to change it to ondemand mode? (I can change it in the applet but next time I reboot it goes to performance mode again)
[12:08]  * BUGabundo likes the new jaunty background image
[12:08] <BUGabundo> nacho: that is a bug! kernel now always sets it to ondemand
[12:09] <BUGabundo> please visit #ubuntu-kernel and get help there
[12:09] <nacho> ok
[12:09] <BUGabundo> I'm not sure if apw is awake yet!
[12:09] <BUGabundo> apw: ping
[12:10]  * apw is technically awake
[12:10] <BUGabundo> eheh
[12:11] <BUGabundo> apw can you help nacho?
[12:11] <BUGabundo> or point in the correct direction?
[12:11] <BUGabundo> he seems to be stuck on Performance after boot
[12:12] <apw> the kernel defaults to performance, but the cpufreq applet is meant to save its settings
[12:12] <apw> it does for me, as i have one of my build boxes stuck still in slow mode, doh
[12:12] <apw> if its not then that sounds like a gnome bug
[12:12] <nacho> ok
[12:13] <nacho> Yeah I think it should save the values but it doesn't
[12:14] <syockit> cwillu_remote: will try later
[12:14] <cwillu_remote> syockit, I'll ping you again with an updated copy, I'm getting it whittled down time-wise
[12:19] <BUGabundo> nautilus and metacity/compiz just crashed on a LiveUSB while minimizing a nautilus windows
[12:26] <Laruft> Hi. i'm looking to install conky/superkaramba?? or maybe some better plasma applet/widget thing that the defaults..  I'm using kde 4.2 jaunty
[12:30] <BUGabundo> Laruft: I don't think superkaramba was ported to 4.x
[12:31] <Laruft> plasma can use superkaramba widgets I gather, just wondered where I can source those
[12:32] <Laruft> ok i've installed superkaramba, you're right it's not ported to 4.2 -plasma replaces it's functionality
[12:32] <Laruft> even tho the info says "This package is part of the KDE 4 utilities module."
[12:44] <ripps> I'm using the Mainline kernel 2.6.29 (very nice and stable, btw) the only issue is that I get a warning at boot that says it's unable to load a apparmor module. Is there some kind of dkms source I can use to build it?
[12:46] <ActionParsnip1> ripps: is apparmour installed?
[12:46] <ripps> ActionParsnip1: yes
[12:46] <andresmh> i just upgraded my 8.10 to 9.04. Everything seems to work fine but I am still seeing the old notification system.
[12:47] <andresmh> Any ideas on how to enable the new one? I am using a theme called Mac4Lin btw
[12:47] <ActionParsnip1> ripps: could try apt-get --reinstall install <whatever it takes here>
[12:47] <ripps> The mainline kernel's don't come with ubuntu patches or restricted modules, my guess is that the apparmor module would be there, is there apparmor module source I can use to build the kernel module?
[12:48] <ActionParsnip1> ripps: you could apt-get the source and compile that way
[12:50] <koperton> wth my atheros doesn't work anymore
[12:51] <koperton> 05:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications Inc. AR242x 802.11abg Wireless PCI Express Adapter (rev 01)
[12:52] <andresmh> how do I get the new notificaton system to work? I upgraded from 8.10 to 9.04
[12:54] <ActionParsnip1> koperton: i have an awesome link for that
[12:54] <BUGabundo> andresmh: it should be working out of the box
[12:55] <ActionParsnip1> koperton: http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://madberry.org/2008/11/how-to-get-atheros-ar242x-to-work-on-810-intrepid-ibex/&ei=CLPQSeuMFuCLtgewobjeCQ&usg=AFQjCNGvZy5ER-cnGwRegwj98pGMF2pmyg
[12:55] <ActionParsnip1> i hate googler
[12:55] <andresmh> BUGabundo, it isn't for some reason. I rebooteed a couple of times already.
[12:55] <topyli> andresmh: it only works if you have compositing
[12:56] <andresmh> topyli, I am using Compiz. That means I have compositing right?
[12:56] <topyli> yes
[12:56] <andresmh> I am using the Mac4Lin theme topyli, BUGabundo, does that matter?
[12:56] <koperton> ActionParsnip1: mmm that is for 8.10
[12:57] <koperton> anyway i'll give a try
[12:57] <ripps> It seems that apparmor requires a series of kernel patches, which aren't include in mainline. So mainline kernel probably will never have it.
[12:57] <ActionParsnip1> koperton: if you read it, its all compiling which will work on any version of ubuntu
[12:57] <ArcticPenguin> ubuntu is cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches
[12:58] <koperton> ActionParsnip1: mm that uses ath5k and i have already it
[12:58] <koperton> xD damned upgrade yesterday was working
[12:59] <ArcticPenguin> Linux is cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches
[12:59] <ArcticPenguin> Windows is god
[13:00] <syockit> "Windows is god" <-- whose quote?
[13:00] <ArcticPenguin> my quote
[13:00] <ArcticPenguin> Ballmer is the man!
[13:01] <bazhang> !ot > ArcticPenguin
[13:02] <ArcticPenguin> Ballmer is the man!
[13:02] <bazhang> ArcticPenguin, stop that
[13:04] <ArcticPenguin> Ok name one thing the open source community has created unique without copying some closed source application
[13:05] <bazhang> ArcticPenguin, take offtopic chat to #ubuntu-offtopic
[13:12] <CosmicChaos_> actual update want me to remove ethtool because it conflicts with "sparc-utils" but i cannot find that package ... any ideas?
[13:15] <edi_99> hi guys
[13:16] <edi_99> i have a problem with my wirelless conn
[13:16] <edi_99> when trying to connect with knetworkmanager...
[13:16] <edi_99> it does'n do anything....
[13:17] <Laruft> edi, go to the top right plasma thingy
[13:17] <Laruft> add a widget
[13:18] <edi_99> a widget for knetworkman?
[13:18] <Laruft> yeah hangon
[13:18] <Laruft> let me explain
[13:20] <Laruft> mouse over where the time is displayed bottom right, select panel options-> add widget
[13:20] <Laruft> then select network management
[13:21] <Laruft> that will put a little box on the bar. which when u left click will pop up a list of wifi signals
[13:21] <vistakiller> anyone with hp in jaunty?
[13:21] <Laruft> samsung here
[13:21] <vistakiller> it seems tha hp-toolbox is not working
[13:22] <Laruft> whats the problem you are having, maybe someone reading can help  or get back to you
[13:22] <edi_99> Laruft: seems like I'm missing the network management option
[13:22] <frybye> vistakiller: is that a windows utillity??
[13:22] <vistakiller> no is linux utility
[13:22] <vistakiller> not a winblows
[13:23] <ramiro_> hi everyone
[13:23] <ramiro_> jaunty doesnt detect my graphics card
[13:23] <edi_99> Laruft: oh nevermind got it...
[13:24] <frybye> ok - was not aware that the manuf.. are providing linux supp...
[13:24] <Laruft> cool, let me know if you have any other problems   It seems to work pretty well, but sometimes i have to rekey my wifi pass
[13:25] <edi_99> Laruft: thanks for the help, let's hope that wifi works after i plug out the cable :)
[13:25] <vistakiller> it seems tha the problem is solved with hp-toolbox with today update
[13:26] <ramiro_> help anyone?
[13:26] <EvilRoey> hello
[13:27] <ramiro_> my resolution is too low and jaunty doesnt detect my driver
[13:27] <ramiro_> wich is restricted
[13:27] <Laruft> ramiro, what is your graphics card?
[13:27] <vistakiller> ramiro what is you gpu?
[13:27] <vistakiller> your*
[13:28] <Laruft> and what drives do you have?
[13:28] <Laruft> oh driver, sorry misread
[13:28] <ramiro_> it's gfroce 4
[13:29] <ramiro_> jaunty's live cd does dectect it
[13:30] <Laruft> you might just need to update the video driver perhaps
[13:30] <ramiro_> how?
[13:31] <Aggro> ramiro_: system -> administration -> hardware drivers ?
[13:31] <DJones> ramiro_: I have a similar problem with my desktop, restricted drivers doesn't detect my geforce2 graphics card on my desktop, but it does detect a geforce2 go card in my laptop
[13:31] <ramiro_> it just appears the wifi driver
[13:32] <ramiro_> well it's weird because when i was installing it, with the live cd; my gforce driver appeared there
[13:32] <biberao> hi
[13:32] <ramiro_> i enabled it but it required a reboot, so i couldn't make it work
[13:35] <Laruft> nvidia version 180 is what I'm using.  i assume latest version will support all cards?
[13:35] <ramiro_> so i should install nvidia from add/remove programs?
[13:38] <EvilRoey> Is Facebook's Java Photo uploader supposed to work in Konqueror?  I have Java installed.  When I try and add more photos to a Facebook photo album, I get "loading applet"--and that's it.
[13:38] <rmgibbs> After upgrading to Jaunty, what do I do with the disabled Third Party Sources? I assume they are from the older version? -Thanks
[13:40] <ramiro_> whats the sudo to install nvidia drivers?
[13:41] <Laruft> just working on this....
[13:41] <Laruft> is there a way to list all packages I have installed?
[13:41] <popey> Laruft: dpkg -l | grep ^ii
[13:43] <ActionParsnip1> EvilRoey: i'd use the old uploader, its super compatible
[13:45] <Laruft> ramiro_:  you should have nvidia-settings, nvidia-common and nvidia-glx-80   I have others too, but those are the main ones I believe
[13:45] <EvilRoey> ActionParsnip1:  hehehe nice nick
[13:45] <EvilRoey> ActionParsnip1:  the one that takes a massive amount of time to upload pictures?
[13:47] <ActionParsnip1> EvilRoey: slow is better than none
[13:48] <linkinx64_> guys i was using my TV as a second display and now my laptop shows only 1024x768 instead of 1280....i don't see the option
[13:48] <linkinx64_> hi ! :
[13:55] <Newbee> hello everybody
[13:55] <Newbee> I am unable to make strigi work in kubuntu jaunty. When I try to enable it in the system settings is only tells me that it is not working.
[13:57] <eagles0513875> Newbee:  fyi expect there to be bugs since its still a beta
[13:58] <eagles0513875> also if bugs are found submit to launchpad.net
[13:58] <Newbee> eagles0513875: what does fyi mean?
[13:58] <BUGabundo> andresmh: maybe... I know that some users had trouble with diff WM and Themes
[13:58] <eagles0513875> Newbee: for your information
[13:59] <eagles0513875> hey gnome
[14:00] <Newbee> eagles0513875: yes, I know that it is beta, but I wanted to ask first. Now I know, that it was probably not my fault or a problem of my installation.
[14:01] <Newbee> eagles0513875: I'll look at launchpad for the issue and submit it, if it is not there yet. Thanks.
[14:01] <eagles0513875> no problemm
[14:02] <cetanhota> Once Jaunty goes live, if I patch my Beta System to full, I wont need to do a full re-install
[14:03] <Laruft> I see the new beta has a different package manager.  I'm using an older jaunty install, when I did apt-get upgrade, I am still left with adept.
[14:03] <jpds> cetanhota: Just upgrade with the package manager.
[14:03] <cetanhota> cool, I thought so. Just wanted to make sure. I hate to do a re-install if I dont need to.
[14:03] <syockit> what are they using? Packagekit?
[14:03] <frybye> hi all - is there a way to check out and when needed repair an installation that might have some corruptions/faults in it??
[14:04] <frybye> like a command for the console - i dont mean going thru packet by packet by hand here.. ;=)
[14:04] <BUGabundo> cetanhota: running updates will give you the final release
[14:04] <BUGabundo> the prefered way to upgrade is using update-manager
[14:05] <cetanhota> Yup, and thats what I will do, just wanted to make sure I was clear.
[14:06] <frybye> BUGabundo: and so check out/repair an installation that should be up-to-date but appears to hve faults??
[14:06] <BUGabundo> cetanhota: many many users ask that!
[14:06] <BUGabundo> can you explain on your own words why would any one think that???
[14:06] <BUGabundo> I would like to understand the origin of the question
[14:06] <BUGabundo> so that it can be dealt with
[14:06] <BUGabundo> frybye: say again ???
[14:07] <Laruft> oh man i don't even have update-manager installed
[14:07] <BUGabundo> Laruft: ROFL!
[14:07] <BUGabundo> $ sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[14:07] <Laruft> it wasn't installed originally... so
[14:08] <BUGabundo> Laruft: install the metapackage
[14:08] <Laruft> I have THAT..lmao
[14:08] <BUGabundo> it should bring all that you need
[14:08] <frybye> I have an installation of jaunty -  done with update manager -d from intrepid that for instance does not have anything at the system|settings|audio... there is just nothing there.. so I am asking is there an automated way to repair a faulty installation?
[14:08] <BUGabundo> if you have that, I must have UM
[14:08] <Laruft> cmd?
[14:08] <Laruft> is it kupdate-manager i wonder /me tries
[14:09] <BUGabundo> frybye: there's no system|setting menu on my side!
[14:09] <Laruft> hmm it's not that lol
[14:09] <syockit> frybye: I'm afraid not.... you can check the forums to see if this is a known issue
[14:09] <BUGabundo> Laruft: if you have kubuntu then the metapackage is kubutnu-dekstop
[14:09] <BUGabundo> and you should have $ update-manager-kde
[14:09] <frybye> I am using a German o.system so dont know the exact erminology...
[14:09] <cetanhota> I think many users feel that a beta is just that, a testing system. The final release is the one that we should use once it goes live. That being said, people think that once the Final is out then the beta is not needed anymore. So off they go to do a full install. Knowing that if the are running the Beta, and do a full update on day of release would give them the final release.
[14:09] <frybye> in english i mean..
[14:10] <Laruft> ah yes, that explains it
[14:10] <BUGabundo> cetanhota: I get what u mean but still have no idea why ppl would think that
[14:10] <frybye> like system|settings|sound - in German system|einstellungen|audio..
[14:10] <cetanhota> Sometimes those facts just are not clear to many users.
[14:11] <cetanhota> They get beat into there heads that beta is testing and only testing. when the new comes out you have to do a full re-install.
[14:11] <BUGabundo> frybye: both on System|Preferences and System|Admin I have no Audio tab
[14:11] <cetanhota> Many people still think and live in the windows world, I think allot of these ideas come from there.
[14:11] <BUGabundo> ok cetanhota. thanks once again
[14:11] <frybye> BUG - what about s o u n d
[14:12] <Laruft> cetanhota: people use the beta because the release before didn't work as expected.   or the beta added new functionality
[14:12] <BUGabundo> if you see any users asking that on foruns, PLEASE tell them that running update-manager will get them the Final
[14:12] <BUGabundo> frybye: you can change your language too!! eheh
[14:12] <syockit> hey! sometimes the system still feels like it's still under testing whilst it's already released (my experience with intrepid). Seeing I'm bound to meet problems anyway, this time I chose to roll along with the development
[14:12] <frybye> where do you go to check - config your underlying sound system...
[14:12] <Laruft> and update-manager-kde for kubuntu users! lmao, they need to apt-get it too
[14:12] <BUGabundo> frybye: yes I have Sound on Preferences
[14:12] <frybye> BUGabundo: then my German wife wont like it...
[14:13] <BUGabundo> frybye: make her a new profile just for her
[14:13] <cetanhota> Laruft, or some people use it like me because they like to help out during the beta phase looking for bugs and such.
[14:13] <BUGabundo> and one for you!
[14:13] <BUGabundo> easy!!!
[14:13] <Eruaran> I have an issue but I'm not sure where to report it
[14:13] <BUGabundo> frybye: ubuntu multiuser is pretty nice!
[14:13] <BUGabundo> Eruaran: what's up?
[14:13] <frybye> right and when I left-click on that - a tab appears at bottom of screen saying "starting sound" for a few seconds and then dissapears and then there is nothing...
[14:13] <BUGabundo> :) frybye what about your French madame? :)
[14:14] <frybye> multi user = "You are hidinfg something from me!"  heheh
[14:14] <Eruaran> BUGabundo: In my system log I'm getting this every few seconds, 2009-03-31 00:13:45	Shadowfax	kernel	[ 4046.668899] ACPI: Unable to turn cooling device [f6c1df18] 'on'
[14:14] <BUGabundo> frybye: heheheheeheheheheheheheheheheheheeheh
[14:14] <BUGabundo> Eruaran: ah known prob!
[14:14] <frybye> we only speak Polish together the floosie and me - and she aint here using the pc in the fam. appt.. heheh
[14:14] <BUGabundo> seems that some systems report an nonexiting fan
[14:14] <BUGabundo> its a BIOS bug
[14:15] <Eruaran> BUGabundo: It does not seem to affect general usage
[14:15] <BUGabundo> see if there's a bios update Eruaran
[14:15] <Eruaran> BUGabundo: ah so BIOS update ?
[14:15] <Eruaran> ok
[14:15] <BUGabundo> if not, you should get the kernel team patching the kernel to ignore it
[14:15] <frybye> BUG - so is there a "check out the installation and repair if necessary" command or not?
[14:15] <BUGabundo> but that won't happen for this cycle since we are close to release
[14:15] <Eruaran> my BIOS is pretty crappy
[14:15] <BUGabundo> Eruaran: but ask on #ubuntu-kernel or to apw
[14:16] <Eruaran> ok
[14:16] <BUGabundo> frybye: well maybe some sound dev can help you
[14:16] <BUGabundo> its way above my knowlage
[14:16] <BUGabundo> its too soon for dtchen to be awaked!
[14:16] <BUGabundo> try around 19h GMT
[14:17] <frybye> ok BUGabundo but you are here - ;=)
[14:17] <frybye> BUGabundo: i c - ok
[14:17] <BUGabundo> frybye: but I have no idea how to debug audio
[14:17] <frybye> and you dontt know of a general system to check out and repair an installation?
[14:18] <Aggro> BUGabundo: I have investigated it for two days. Neither do I.
[14:18] <frybye> Aggro - you got the same prob??
[14:18] <Aggro> frybye: I got problem with sounds. Pulseaudio crashes/shuts down on me. And I have no idea why or how to get more info about it.
[14:19] <Aggro> I'm still trying to figure out what starts the pulseaudio
[14:19] <frybye> well I guess you have already googled? - trouble with thaat is than almost none of the hits actually relate to jaunty...
[14:19] <BUGabundo> Aggro: PA auto spawns now
[14:20] <BUGabundo> even if you kill it, stop it, it WILL auto start again
[14:20] <Aggro> BUGabundo: No it wont
[14:20] <BUGabundo> yes it does
[14:20] <frybye> Aggro: can you access the system|prefs|sound area??
[14:20] <Laruft> anyone know the command line for update-manager-kde ?
[14:20] <Aggro> BUGabundo: Want me to pastebin you a ps aux list without pulseaudio?
[14:20] <Laruft> no man page or -? lol
[14:20] <BUGabundo> Laruft: do-release-upgrade
[14:21] <BUGabundo> Laruft: add '-d' to distupgrade
[14:21] <BUGabundo> Aggro: didn't you say it would start on its own?
[14:21] <Aggro> frybye: Not exactly. My problem is more related to thin client. I only got ssh connection to the machine where pulseaudio crashes.
[14:21] <Laruft> no new release found
[14:21] <frybye> i c
[14:22] <Aggro> BUGabundo: Then what di dyou say?
[14:22] <frybye> catch you guys in a bit  ...
[14:22] <BUGabundo> Aggro: too much confusion
[14:22] <BUGabundo> never mind
[14:22] <BUGabundo> lets start over
[14:22] <BUGabundo> Laruft: are you on jaunty?
[14:23] <Aggro> BUGabundo: Ok, do you know how I can prevent it from starting?
[14:23] <BUGabundo> if so, of course there's no new release
[14:23] <BUGabundo> Aggro: yes
[14:23] <Aggro> Please share this information?
[14:23] <BUGabundo> you can stop it from auto spawning
[14:24] <Aggro> I want to stop it from starting at all, so I can start it on my own way, so it would not crash.
[14:24] <ActionParsnip1> !bun
[14:24] <ActionParsnip1> !bum
[14:24] <ActionParsnip1> Aggro: that may help
[14:24] <BUGabundo> Aggro: let me find the info on that
[14:24] <BUGabundo> maco: ping
[14:24] <BUGabundo> ActionParsnip1: bum will not work!
[14:24] <maco> BUGabundo: pong?
[14:25] <Laruft> yes Bugabundo
[14:25] <ActionParsnip1> BUGabundo: no need for the '!'
[14:25] <BUGabundo> maco please refresh my memory on how to stop
[14:25] <BUGabundo> PA from auto spawn
[14:25] <maco> Aggro: you wanna turn off pulse autospawn?
[14:25] <BUGabundo> so that Aggro can stop it
[14:25] <maco> Aggro: wait did you say it just keeps crashing?
[14:25] <Aggro> It only crashes once
[14:25] <Aggro> or shuts down
[14:26] <Aggro> I don't know which
[14:26] <Aggro> as I can't get any information of what happens.
[14:26] <maco> Aggro: lemme check something...
[14:26] <ActionParsnip1> Aggro: read your    dmesg | tail
[14:27] <maco> no....there's a kernel bug that was making pulse unstable
[14:27] <BUGabundo> maco a new one?
[14:27] <maco> the one dan was having people test last week
[14:27] <Aggro> ActionParsnip1: Nothing there
[14:27] <maco> im trying to see if the kernel team released the fix yet
[14:28] <ActionParsnip1> Aggro: bah
[14:29] <Aggro> ActionParsnip1: Like I said, I have spend 2 days with this problem. But I accept any guesses you can make.
[14:29] <BUGabundo> maco: I think so
[14:29] <BUGabundo> I remember getting it on Friday
[14:30] <BUGabundo> and dtchen hasn't upped his repo version either
[14:30] <maco> Aggro: do you have 2.6.28-11.38?
[14:30] <Aggro> Linux ltsp2 2.6.28-11-generic #38-Ubuntu SMP Fri Mar 27 09:00:52 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux
[14:31] <maco> Aggro: does it only happen with that kernel?
[14:32] <maco> Aggro: you said 2 days. if you rever to 2.6.10, is it ok?
[14:32] <ActionParsnip1> Aggro: i'd reboot then wait for the conflict then read all of: dmesg | less
[14:33] <Aggro> maco: Sounds worked with Ubuntu 8.04, two days ago I installed Jaunty beta and since then I have tried to solve the sound problem
[14:33] <Aggro> ActionParsnip1: Trust me on this, there is nothing on dmesg. I have rebooted about 50 times today, I have looked dmesg before and after the pulseaudio goes down.
[14:34] <maco> doh, ok...
[14:34] <Aggro> But the thing is, if after the crash I start pulseaudio manually with command "pulseaudio" it does not crash, it works.
[14:35] <maco> what if you use start-pulseaudio-x11?
[14:35] <maco> is there a difference?
[14:35] <maco> and what if you just dont restart it? will it start itself when you play sound?
[14:35] <maco> autospawn means it should start automatically when you play sound
[14:36] <setuid> Anyone know what the replacement for /etc/modprobe.d/aliases is?
[14:37] <Aggro> maco: start-pulseaudio-x11 does not seem to crash
[14:37] <Aggro> maco: If I don't restart, then there is no pulseaudio process and I don't hear any sounds.
[14:38] <maco> sounds like autospawn's already off then
[14:38] <throughn1thing> does anyone know if the Jaunty LiveCD supports manual setup for encrypted disks...or is the alternate CD still required for setups like this
[14:39] <Aggro> maco: When I did apt-get remove pulseaudio && apt-get install pulseaudio I got some new packages.. that fixed part of my problem, but it still crashes on startup. Could autospawner be missing from the ltsp also? Do you know the packet name?
[14:39] <BUGabundo> throughn1thing: yes!
[14:40] <throughn1thing> BUGabundo: so i dont need the alternate disk anymore?
[14:40] <arthur_> Hi there. This might be trivial but don't know howto. Upgrade broke a few Gnome features. How can I  completely "refresh" Gnome desktop?
[14:40] <BUGabundo> please refer to release notes for more details info
[14:40] <throughn1thing> ok thanks
[14:40] <maco> Aggro: in /etc/pulse/client.conf, what does lne 26 say?
[14:40] <BUGabundo> throughn1thing: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope/TechnicalOverview
[14:40] <throughn1thing> perfect, thanks!
[14:40] <BUGabundo> http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/jaunty/beta
[14:41] <Aggro> maco: autospawn = yes
[14:41] <throughn1thing> BUGabundo: hmm i have read this, and it does not mention anything on this page about encrypted partitions
[14:41] <maco> interesting..... so you logged out & in after installing new pulse packages?
[14:41] <throughn1thing> it talks about the ecryptfs "private" folder, but not entire disks
[14:41] <arthur_> apt-get remove --purge ubuntu-desktop and than a re-install would that work?
[14:42] <Aggro> maco: Yes, pressed reset button
[14:42] <maco> throughn1thing: for LVM encryption or home directory encryption, you need the alt cd
[14:42] <BUGabundo> throughn1thing: ahhh sorry. my mistake
[14:42] <maco> i dotn know about private directory
[14:43] <throughn1thing> i guess ill stick with the alternate disk just to be safe
[14:43] <maco> Aggro: :( ok well to make sound play without pulseaudio, you need to be in the audio group in /etc/group
[14:44] <maco> Aggro: talk to dtchen or TheMuso though. they know more about how pulse works under the hood
[14:44] <Aggro> maco: I want to use pulseaudio, and it works after the first crash.
[14:44] <Aggro> I just want to automate the thing if possible. And help debugging the problem if I can. But I'm out of ideas how to find the problem.
[14:46] <maco> Aggro: does the crash show in any log?
[14:47] <Aggro> maco: Not any I have found
[14:48] <Aggro> maco: E.g. syslog is empty, nothing there. size of file is 0.
[14:48] <cetanhota> good news, the issue with iso being mounted from the host OS in VMware has been resolved.
[14:48] <Aggro> dmesg shows stuff, but nothing about the crash
[14:48] <maco> Aggro: "stuff"? pastebin?
[14:49] <Aggro> maco: stuff... I think it is unrelated, but sure...
[14:49] <BUGabundo>  !paste
[14:51] <Aggro> maco: http://pastebin.com/d5bbe569b
[14:58] <BUGabundo> do Notifications bubble make your screens flash too, when using a FulScreen app?
[15:00] <bsnider> maco, there is no audio group
[15:01] <bsnider> maco, there are 3 pulse groups
[15:01] <maco> bsnider: there is an audio group
[15:01] <maco> bsnider: pulse is a member of it
[15:01] <bsnider> ok, i ghuess it's invisible
[15:01] <maco> are you looking in the actual file or at the gui thing?
[15:02] <bsnider> the gui thing
[15:02] <maco> bah dont trust guis
[15:02] <Blinkiz> Okay, this popping up of users login in on pidgin needs to be disabled on my computer. I mean, this new notification box (black background) that pops up everytime a new user login on pidgin. How do I disable it?
[15:02] <BUGabundo> bsnider: $ groups
[15:02] <bsnider> uh huh
[15:02] <maco> Blinkiz: tools -> plugins -> libnotify plugin
[15:03] <bsnider> you  don't need to do anything beyond the default setup to make pulse work
[15:03] <Blinkiz> maco, thanks
[15:03] <BUGabundo> Blinkiz: Pidgin->Plugins->notifications
[15:03] <maco> Blinkiz: you can set which things should and shouldn't notify
[15:03] <BUGabundo> turn off the option for notification when someone enters/leaves
[15:03] <maco> bsnider: the audio group is for if you *don't* want to use pulse
[15:03] <bsnider> you can't get rid of pulse
[15:03] <bsnider> and you shouldn't get rid of it
[15:04] <maco> bsnider: kubuntu doesnt use pulse
[15:04] <maco> bsnider: so, for example, on a kubuntu system, you are automatically in audio and not pulse because pulse just plain isnt installed
[15:04] <bsnider> if you say so
[15:05] <maco> and since some people prefer not to use pulse period, say because its still really buggy, the way to go about doing that is to remove pulse and join that group so you've got the same setup as a kubuntu user, but you'll probably run into issues with apps taking exclusive locks on the devices if you dont explicitly setup dmix
[15:06] <nemo> or. can use a better sound card :)
[15:06] <bsnider> pulse isn't still really buggy
[15:06] <nemo> $10 SB16, no more locks
[15:06] <nemo> bsnider: still blows up on me :-/
[15:06] <nemo> regularly
[15:06] <nemo> locks up. have to kill it.
[15:06] <nemo> crashes
[15:06] <nemo> both ibex and jaunty
[15:06] <bsnider> i see, and you clean installed jaunty recently?
[15:07] <Aggro> maco: The start-pulseaudio-x11 crashed
[15:07] <Machtin> hm, how large should /tmp be?
[15:07] <Aggro> maco: It just lived a lot longer, about 30 minutes. After that totem was closed and then it was gone.
[15:07] <maco> bsnider: er, yes, pulse is buggy. we're shipping 0.9.14, not 0.9.15 ;)
[15:08] <maco> Aggro: whereas no crashes at all with normal pulseaudio command? and you're using ltsp, right?
[15:08] <Aggro> bsnider: I just installed ubuntu beta and pulseaudio crashes after 1 minute
[15:08] <bsnider> maco, i'm sorry i don't follow your meaning there
[15:08] <maco> bsnider: we're not using the latest version with all its bug fixes
[15:08] <Aggro> maco: I will try the normal pulseaudio command now. I get back after about 30 minutes ;)
[15:08] <bsnider> maco, unless pulse 9.15 was released today, 9.14 is the latest version
[15:09] <maco> Aggro: haha alreght
[15:09] <maco> bsnider: oh i thought it'd been released already....ok, well there are 9.15 packages available in TheMuso's PPA which people are having good luck with, we're just not including it by default
[15:09] <bsnider> http://www.pulseaudio.org/
[15:09] <bsnider> 9.14
[15:10] <maco> fair nough
[15:10] <bsnider> so you're messing with the default setup and complaining that there are bugs...
[15:10] <maco> who is?
[15:10] <maco> i use 9.14, Aggro uses 9.14
[15:10] <maco> we've got default
[15:10] <bsnider> anyone that's putting luke's ppa stuff on their system
[15:10] <maco> er...you dont understand
[15:10] <maco> people use his PPA *Because* of the bugs in 9.14
[15:11] <maco> i dont have issues though...partly because if i do, i see dtchen almost every day, and he can fix them
[15:11] <apw> there is cirtainly no way you can call whats in the jaunty pocket bug free right now
[15:11] <maco> haha
[15:11] <bsnider> if people are seeing lots of showstopper bugs after having clean installed jaunty beta then i'll eat my words. if you're upgrading and seeing bugs, then you deserve them
[15:12] <apw> my classic is getting 10s of the first track i play in rhythm box, and then having to play again to get normal service
[15:12] <apw> bsnider, any why would that be?
[15:12] <apw> that is an untenable position.  if that is the truth then file a bug on the installer
[15:12] <BUGabundo> bsnider: PA on jaunty will be 9.14. not 9.15. 9.15 is available for testers on themuso PPA
[15:13] <Aggro> bsnider: pulseaudio after clean reinstall crashes after 1 minute of usage.
[15:13] <maco> BUGabundo: yeah he thinks the only people seeing bugs are ones using themuso's ppa
[15:13] <BUGabundo> ahh
[15:13] <BUGabundo> nope!
[15:13] <bsnider> BUGabundo, if you can't keep up witht he conversation, better not try to join in at all
[15:13] <Aggro> bsnider: installed 2 days ago, the beta
[15:13] <BUGabundo> sound works 200% fine on my system NOW
[15:13] <nemo> bsnider: my jaunty install is about a month old, so I guess no.
[15:13] <BUGabundo> finally
[15:13] <maco> BUGabundo: i told him that the reason people use themuso's ppa is that the default one has bugs
[15:13] <nemo> bsnider: I have done a clean jaunty install, but isn't under my control
[15:13] <BUGabundo> after almost 2 months in mute
[15:13] <maco> there are some bugs only found in 9.14, and some only found in 9.15....so having both available is a *good* thing
[15:14] <BUGabundo> maco actually themuso ppa is only for extreme ppl that need 9.15 hooks! since it modifies the kernel userspace
[15:14] <apw> i prefer to refer to pulse as rough round the edges
[15:14] <BUGabundo> for bug fixing we _had_ dtchen ppa
[15:14] <BUGabundo> but has now been ported to kernel fixes
[15:14] <bsnider> i think the people seeing bugs are the opnes who A) have unsupported hardware, which is an alsa issue, or B) have old installs they've been upgrading for years not realizing that upgrading distros without issue is a fantasy
[15:15] <bsnider> you have to clean install distro upgrades
[15:15] <maco> bsnider: its a fantasy for opensuse, not for ubuntu
[15:15] <BUGabundo> old hw with buggier drivers is on reason
[15:15] <maco> bsnider: and Aggro has repeated abou 10 times that s/he DID a clean install 2 days ago
[15:15] <bsnider> Aggro, which hardware?
[15:16] <BUGabundo> mac fta says he brings the same system since 6.06
[15:16] <BUGabundo> just by upgrading
[15:16] <maco> bsnider: though it is true that upgrading through unstable can cause problems, stable release -> stable release should not create problems
[15:16] <bsnider> that's a fantasy
[15:16] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Hello, what about the new indicator applet? By now it only seems to me a pointless icon indicating me that pidgin and evolution are running
[15:16] <Aggro> bsnider: integrated sound chip, if you tell me commands, I can give output.
[15:16] <bsnider> lspci
[15:16] <maco> BUGabundo: yes, there are a LOT of hardware / driver bugs revealed by pulseaudio
[15:16] <apw> bsnider, why we specifically support doing upgrades via update-manager
[15:16] <BUGabundo> Aggro:  lspci -vvnn
[15:16] <Le-Chuck_ITA> is it going to be improved or shall I just remove it from the panel and forget about it?
[15:17] <maco> Aggro: if its an HDA, lscpi -nv | grep -A 1 0403
[15:17] <BUGabundo> maco I know!
[15:17] <apw> Le-Chuck_ITA, i have yet to figure out what its trying to tell me either
[15:17] <bsnider> apw, that's not an argument. why does linus torvalds always clean install new distros?
[15:17] <maco> bsnider: he's anal?
[15:17] <apw> but there is talk on -devel about it which implies it going to do something
[15:17] <BUGabundo> apw loved your comment on the bug eheh
[15:17] <apw> bsnider, and "beause linus does" is one?
[15:18] <apw> nothing he does is normal.  thats part of his charm
[15:18] <BUGabundo> indicator applet used to flash for me, now only shows a green dot!
[15:18] <apw> BUGabundo, you have a green dot?
[15:18] <bsnider> no, but as long as we're arguing in an unreasonable way
[15:18] <BUGabundo> I have piddgin and gwibber on
[15:18] <BUGabundo> apw ^^
[15:18] <Aggro> bsnider: http://pastebin.com/d7bf97019
[15:18] <apw> bsnider, i don't think i am, you told me i was going to fail because i wasn't installing from scratch as an opener
[15:19] <BUGabundo> 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AC97 Audio Controler (MCP) (rev a1)
[15:19] <BUGabundo> humm got it!
[15:19] <apw> i don't believe that is a reasonable position
[15:19] <bsnider> Multimedia audio controller: nVidia Corporation nForce2 AC97 Audio Controler (MCP) (rev a1)
[15:19] <BUGabundo> its the nvidia crontroler
[15:19] <bsnider> there's your problem, sir
[15:19] <BUGabundo> wasn't that blacklisted on moduled?
[15:19] <bsnider> alsa is to blame
[15:19] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo: when did your indicator applet flash, precisely?
[15:19] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: many weeks ago
[15:19] <Aggro> But it works if I restart pulseaudio manually (for 30 minutes at least, still testing)
[15:19] <BUGabundo> stopped about 2 weeks or so Le-Chuck_ITA
[15:19] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo:  I mean under which conditions :)
[15:20] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo: because  mine never flashes
[15:20] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: when I got stuff from pidgin
[15:20] <Le-Chuck_ITA> it just stays there
[15:20] <Le-Chuck_ITA> ah ok
[15:20] <apw> BUGabundo, mine is always and envelope
[15:20] <Le-Chuck_ITA> but then is it meant to replace the pidgin icon?
[15:20] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: operative word: it *used* to
[15:20] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: FUSA already did
[15:20] <bsnider> Aggro, the sound driver pulse is trying to use is a piece of garbage. it's not pulse's fault
[15:21] <BUGabundo> apw: so if the nv sound driver is blacklisted
[15:21] <apw> though that doesn't explain the large body of people who have better behaviour if they remove it
[15:21] <BUGabundo> how can Aggro un-blacklist it?
[15:21] <maco> Le-Chuck_ITA: the combination of the indicator applet and fusa replace pidgin's awful practice of keeping a non-notification in the notification area
[15:21] <apw> not that i want to remove it particularly, as it has its place in the greater scheme
[15:22] <apw> maco, why is that awful?
[15:22] <BUGabundo> apw I can keep it as long as it doesn't crash/reload 5 times a day
[15:22] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: looks to me like it's just a "vertical mode" notification area :)
[15:22] <BUGabundo> apw: maco like me, believe on a Clean SysTray
[15:22] <apw> and it is an indication, it tells me i have pigdin runnning
[15:22] <maco> apw: is not a notifcation! and um "the HIG says so"?
[15:22] <apw> and it tells me if i am away
[15:22] <BUGabundo> as do Mark and ASeigo
[15:22] <apw> tell me how thats _not_ a notification
[15:22] <maco> the fusa already tells you the status
[15:22] <apw> and i dissagree with them
[15:22] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Guys: I followed ALL the debates, including the rhythmbox one
[15:23] <BUGabundo> apw: FUSA says the same
[15:23] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and there is an argument which is constantly ignored: long-running applications can not be windows
[15:23] <Le-Chuck_ITA> they need a place to live in
[15:23] <maco> the primary purpose according to a bunch of users is so that they can minimize without minimizing
[15:23] <maco> which i dotn understnd
[15:23] <apw> no as it never changes when i have pending messages like the other pidgin one does
[15:23] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: KDE does that with plamoids
[15:23] <Aggro> Sounds worked fine in Ubuntu 8.04, did it use better version of the ... garpage?
[15:23] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: you don't understand it as many don't. The point is usability
[15:24] <maco> Le-Chuck_ITA: no crap
[15:24] <Le-Chuck_ITA> if I use a window frequently because I am working on it, it makes sense to keep it open
[15:24] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I can alt+tab to it
[15:24] <Le-Chuck_ITA> but if the windows is only used to start or stop background music
[15:24] <maco> i have always kept buddy lists open at all times
[15:24] <Le-Chuck_ITA> it does not make sense to keep it in the way
[15:24] <apw> and does not pidgin allow you to chose if that icon is there
[15:24] <BUGabundo> I keep my pidgin closed
[15:24] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco:  that's not an argument
[15:24] <maco> apw: yes
[15:24] <BUGabundo> just IM windows opened on a 2nd workspace
[15:24] <apw> am pretty sure it does, and i never use the user list
[15:24] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I always keep the cube on but it's off by default
[15:24] <apw> i use the little speech bubble and am very happy
[15:24] <BUGabundo> I have low desktop screen space... 13.3" screen
[15:25] <Le-Chuck_ITA> in fact low desktop space is the obvious answer
[15:25] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and
[15:25] <maco> apw: the default is for it to not hang out in the notification area now because all the "minimizing to somewhere else"  stuff and the "new messges!" stuff are in the indicator applet
[15:25] <Le-Chuck_ITA> skipping alt+tab is the other obvious one
[15:25] <maco> apw: the status setting is in fusa. all the functionality is covered
[15:25] <BUGabundo> guys if you see a screenshot of my system
[15:25] <BUGabundo> you will see I don't have any more space on systray
[15:25] <BUGabundo> too much cluther there
[15:25] <apw> maco, dissagree, my pidgin icon has some kind of annotation when i have meessages
[15:26] <maco> Le-Chuck_ITA: ugh, i hate that! stupid kwin skips minimized windows on alt+tab. i consequently cannot get my windows back when miinimzed, PERIOD
[15:26] <apw> which does not appear on my green spot
[15:26] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: in fact
[15:26] <maco> apw: the indicator applet does too
[15:26] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I want alt+tab to minimized windows
[15:26] <maco> apw: you not reading!
[15:26] <apw> maco, which is the indicator applet
[15:26] <apw> this thing with an envelope?
[15:26] <maco> apw: yes
[15:26] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: but windows that I use only once per hour and NEED to stay alive
[15:26] <Le-Chuck_ITA> need a better place than my taskbar
[15:26] <apw> that never ever changes from an envelope perios
[15:26] <Le-Chuck_ITA> because the taskbar is for frequently used things
[15:26] <BUGabundo> apw: do you have pidgin-libnotify installed?
[15:27] <apw> always has been one and always looks the same, tells me exactly ero
[15:27] <apw> zero ...
[15:27] <BUGabundo> its need to interact with Notifications
[15:27] <maco> apw: it changes to different envelope. its greyed out when not n use and turs all colorful when there's a new message
[15:27] <BUGabundo> http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/112892/2009-03-30.png
[15:27] <BUGabundo> here is my desktop
[15:27] <bsnider> Aggro, that's a really old laptop right?
[15:27] <BUGabundo> see if is there any change I get more icons on it!
[15:27] <maco> cold fingers + broken keyboard = :(
[15:27] <apw> maco, i have never noticed any difference in it
[15:27] <Aggro> bsnider: Desktop computer
[15:28] <Aggro> bsnider: And I got older ones too
[15:28] <BUGabundo> apw: do you have pidgin-libnotify installed?
[15:28] <apw> BUGabundo, but i do have popups appearing in the new OSD
[15:28] <bsnider> Aggro, with a radeon 9200 video card? that's the dark ages
[15:28] <Aggro> That is my second best computer here ;)
[15:28] <apw> BUGabundo, seems not if its a separate package, yet i get the notification icon for it
[15:28] <apw> how does that work ...
[15:28] <vbgunz> anybody get desktop effects to work in Kubuntu with the latest nvidia 180.44 binary driver?
[15:28] <BUGabundo> grrrr
[15:28] <Le-Chuck_ITA> who said "all the functionality is covered"... did you notice the difference between FUSA and the pidgin menu?
[15:28] <BUGabundo> ask DX team
[15:28] <BUGabundo> LOL
[15:28] <apw> and i get notification popups too ... i don't understand
[15:28] <bsnider> Aggro, go out and buy a cheap creative card that's NOT an x-fi and you'll have no more problems with sound, ever
[15:29] <apw> is this thing mad?
[15:29] <BUGabundo> apw pidgin as it own libnotify lib that has been patched
[15:29] <bsnider> Aggro, don't waste your time tinkering with pulse
[15:29] <BUGabundo> but there's another package to interact wit libnotify osd
[15:29] <bsnider> pulse can't do the impossible
[15:29] <apw> BUGabundo, so why didn't it install itself
[15:29] <apw> if its needed for this mess to be sane
[15:29] <BUGabundo> it doesn't for other WM then GNOME
[15:29] <apw> i am using default gnome
[15:30] <maco> Le-Chuck_ITA: which bit is missing from fusa? the hiding stuff? thats in the indicator applet
[15:30] <BUGabundo> brb need to check AV on a liveusb jaunty
[15:30] <Le-Chuck_ITA> the extended status with all my favourite ones :)
[15:30] <maco> Le-Chuck_ITA: also, since you like the word usability: having a bunch of junk in the notification area is known to create usability problems because its too much crud to look at
[15:30] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: I know this
[15:31] <apw> maco, so how is it better to have an evelope instead of a speach bubble if its going to persist?
[15:31] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: but I argue that there are two different kinds of windows, one which needs alt+tab and one which annoys alt+tab
[15:31] <apw> how is one not a violation of the same thing the other one is?
[15:31] <Amaranth> apw: The indicator applet is for more than one thing
[15:31] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: the notification icon is just a folder for all the crap
[15:31] <apw> Amaranth, like what?
[15:31] <Le-Chuck_ITA> maco: sorry, I meant the indicator applet
[15:31] <maco> apw: well do you want pidgin, evolution, and gwibber showing *three* notifications in there all the time? or do you want 1 applet that handles all 3? which is more visual clutter?
[15:31] <bsnider> apw, recent studies have shown people understand envelope images
[15:32] <apw> as i only use one of them i am in the same place though
[15:32] <Le-Chuck_ITA> anyways, all have taken this issue rather personally, like if it was an "emacs vs vi thing"
[15:32] <BUGabundo> back.. so far 2 virus removed by clamav!
[15:32] <apw> bsnider, that is true i expect it to point to my email which it does not
[15:32] <Amaranth> apw: So there is no gain or loss for you
[15:32] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo: under which system?
[15:32] <BUGabundo> apw: let me check the required pacakges
[15:32] <maco> apw: which mail client are you using?
[15:32] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: jaunty liveusb removing from wind xp
[15:32] <Amaranth> apw: an envelope means "a message is waiting for you"
[15:32] <maco> i know only evo has support so far...that needs to be worked on for karmic
[15:32] <apw> i just installed that libnotify for it, and restarted and i have lost my normal icon
[15:32] <bsnider> apw, envelope means message, not necessarily email
[15:33]  * BUGabundo wishes kmail used notify OSD
[15:33] <apw> Amaranth, so what is it doing on my screen when one is not waiting for me
[15:33] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo: ok then it's normal :)
[15:33] <Amaranth> apw: It is grayed out
[15:33] <maco> apw: being not highlighted
[15:33] <maco> though if it really doesnt change: BUG
[15:33] <thewrath> hey all
[15:33] <Le-Chuck_ITA> Amaranth: the envelope is there right now
[15:33] <Amaranth> disabled icon means "no messages waiting"
[15:33] <Le-Chuck_ITA> and I have no new messages
[15:33] <maco> thewrath: dont you use arch?
[15:33] <apw> maco, its pretty dark thing to me.  one day someone will send me one
[15:33] <BUGabundo> apw: pidgin-libnotify instaled?
[15:33] <apw> and maybe i'll find out what it looks like
[15:34] <apw> BUGabundo, i have that and the behaviour you describe
[15:34] <bsnider> apw, they're just copying the OSX system
[15:34] <BUGabundo> check also pidgin -> plugins -> libnotify options
[15:34] <apw> two icons to get to two halves of one application, which is actually really bloody odd
[15:34] <apw> maco, is anyone gonna make xchat do it to?  mutt for email
[15:35] <BUGabundo> ehehehe mutt!!!!! power
[15:35] <Le-Chuck_ITA> ok guys, I now upgraded the indicator applet :)
[15:35] <Le-Chuck_ITA> let's see
[15:35] <thewrath> maco: i do not use archlinux
[15:35] <thewrath> i want to get into it
[15:35] <maco> apw: the goal is for all (probably just gui though cuz er....) apps to use the indicator applet
[15:35] <thewrath> as soon as i can
[15:35] <BUGabundo> pidgin irc is strange! I see some but not all bubles
[15:35] <BUGabundo> guess I only see *some* replies
[15:35] <BUGabundo> and PVT
[15:35] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo: you see only those with your name?
[15:35] <apw> pidgin irc is too crap to use for real imo
[15:36] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: I did not see that last one yet!
[15:36] <Le-Chuck_ITA> hmm
[15:36] <Le-Chuck_ITA> then it's broken
[15:36] <BUGabundo> apw: I know... even pidgin devs say so
[15:36] <maco> i wonder if i can code good enough to patch xchat, empathy, and the othrs to use it....
[15:36] <Le-Chuck_ITA> I use it for IRC
[15:36] <Le-Chuck_ITA> always
[15:36] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: try a notice or PVT
[15:36] <maco> BUGabundo: maybe you only see when you get highlighted?
[15:36] <BUGabundo> I use pidgin for everything... less apps!
[15:36] <apw> the very worst feature if pidgin irc is if you close the window it unjoins you from everything
[15:36] <BUGabundo> maco both those were higlited and got nothing
[15:37] <BUGabundo> apw: you can set it to close and NOT unjoin
[15:37] <maco> BUGabundo: weird
[15:37] <apw> i never could find the option before i gave up on it.  much happier with xchat
[15:37] <BUGabundo> hey.... Le-Chuck_ITA got the PVT now
[15:37] <BUGabundo> its slowwwwwwwww
[15:37] <maco> im using pidgin+quassel because irssi falls over with ipv6 on jaunty (works fine in hardy)
[15:37] <apw> so i guess i need xchat to join the envelope game to make it any use to me
[15:37] <BUGabundo> I keep doing $ pkill notifications-osd
[15:38] <Le-Chuck_ITA> BUGabundo: you got it by libnotify?
[15:38] <BUGabundo> cause the backlog is so big
[15:38] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: let me purge it and we try again
[15:39] <BUGabundo> $ pkill notify-osd
[15:39] <maco> BUGabundo: the command probably works better when you spell the process name right
[15:39] <BUGabundo> Le-Chuck_ITA: now