[01:49] <Kokito> hello UbuntuStudio folks
[02:29] <holstein> Kokito: hey
[02:36] <Kokito> how is it going holstein ?
[02:42] <holstein> not bad, working on a few blogs
[02:42] <holstein> http://ashevilleoriginalmusicseries.blogspot.com/ for example
[02:51] <Kokito> interesting
[02:51]  * holstein still working on content
[03:01] <ScottL> hi Kokito
[03:01] <ScottL> sorry i disappeared the other day
[03:01] <Kokito> hey ScottL
[03:01] <Kokito> that's OK :)
[03:01] <ScottL> my computer does these weird locks
[03:01] <Kokito> I also disappear quite frequently :)
[03:01] <ScottL> i can move the mouse but i can't change windows, pick anything, or switch desktops
[03:02] <ScottL> i can't even shut down properly, i end up holding the power down till it shuts down :(
[03:02] <ScottL> Kokito, how is the website going?
[03:03] <ScottL> at some point i really need to give some serious thought to how/where information is going to be
[03:06] <Kokito> Have not had time/motivation to work on it lately; but I am sticking to the 6/16 deadline documented in the wiki :)
[03:07] <holstein> ScottL: tty?
[03:08] <holstein> you really *will* do something to the hard drive like that :/
[03:08] <Kokito> ScottL: discussing/brainstorming what to put where can be done now; in fact, it has to happen now, as how the website evolves will depend on what needs to be supported.
[03:11] <Kokito> ScottL: there are a number of questions poised in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Oneiric/Timeline#Update the website with regards to potential features that can be supported; there has been no discussion/decision on whether we want to implement each of them or not on the new website
[03:28] <Kokito> ok, time for my evening coffee
[03:28] <Kokito> going out for a while. will be back later
[04:39] <Kokito> re
[05:02] <Kokito> my Chrome netbook keeps loosing its wifi signal :(
[21:12] <ScottL> i would be curious to see who fully understand's ralf's email to the -dev mailing list, i am afraid many of the topics are beyond my current understanding
[21:12] <ScottL> i think ailo_ probably has the best chance of explaining it to me ;)
[21:15] <astraljava> ScottL: Which emails are you specifically referring to? Granted, I haven't read every piece with thought, but nothing strikes as particularly odd.
[21:18] <ScottL> astraljava, https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-studio-devel/2011-May/003249.html
[21:27]  * holstein
[21:27] <holstein> i should appologize for that
[21:27] <holstein> i talked him into it
[21:27] <holstein> i just wasnt 100% clear with him
[21:28] <holstein> i didnt mean to join the -dev list and rattle off request
[21:28] <holstein> i was hoping he would ask about CPU scalling being added to ubuntustudio controls
[21:28] <holstein> which is actually a great ida
[21:28] <holstein> idea*
[21:32] <rexbron> Speaking of Ubuntustudio-controls, how is that going?
[21:33] <holstein> i want to say ailo_ and paultag are colaborating on that?
[21:38] <ailo_> Ralph seems to talk more about his own specific issues I think, but I was interested in the cpu crequency scaling part
[21:39] <ailo_> I will code a simple usable controls that should be packaged and ready during June
[21:39] <ailo_> But, there are all kinds of ideas for improving the -controls
[21:40] <ailo_> rexbron, The current -controls would need to be updated. You're the original author, right?
[21:40] <ailo_> rexbron, Just a few changes for Lucid, and Maverick
[21:40] <rexbron> ailo_: you can blame it one me ;)
[21:41] <ScottL> holstein, i'm glad we have his input...seriously
[21:41] <ScottL> too often things get brought out by just one person
[21:41] <ailo_> I'm not sure, if it started with Karmic or Lucid, but US-controls should not edit /etc/security/limits.conf anymore, since jackd creates /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf
[21:42] <ScottL> hi rexbron
[21:42] <holstein> ScottL: ralph has C experience
[21:42] <rexbron> hey ScottL
[21:43] <ScottL> and ralf says he's not a coder :P
[21:43] <holstein> it would be great if he transitioned from whiny list guy, to contributor
[21:43] <rexbron> lol neither was I when I wrote -controls
[21:43] <holstein> *im glad to have his input too
[21:43] <ailo_> rexbron, My idea is to have a UbuntuStudio-controls that exists in the system-tray or indicator-tray, and at least let's you administer realtime prio for users
[21:43] <holstein> rexbron: w0w, i didnt realize that was yours... cool :)
[21:43] <rexbron> ailo_: I think that is a good idea
[21:43] <ailo_> rexbron, Since Natty, we don't need to mess with firewire
[21:44] <rexbron> holstein: the one any only piece of fuctional code I've ever distributed
[21:44] <rexbron> ailo_: that's a plus
[21:44] <ailo_> rexbron, It would be great to include some other stuff, like pulse-jack bridge as an option
[21:44] <rexbron> I've been out of the loop for a while and am running stock ubuntu
[21:45] <holstein> ailo_: i think thats the only way we can
[21:45]  * rexbron looks at the redesign page
[21:45] <holstein> i dont think it will ever trickly into the main repos
[21:45] <holstein> pulse-jack*
[21:45] <rexbron> pulse-jack being a seperate package?
[21:46] <holstein> trickle*
[21:46] <rexbron> or is that getting pulse compiled with jack support
[21:46] <holstein> rexbron: falk made it for KXstudio
[21:46] <ailo_> I still don't know what pulse-jack is. Isn't it just a script? flaktx has a solution to that anyhow
[21:46] <persia> holstein, Is this different than the pulseaudio-module-jack we have?
[21:46] <ailo_> falktx*
[21:46] <holstein> persia: AFAIK, its very different
[21:46] <holstein> theres a thread on the list that ScottL has been involved with
[21:47] <holstein> i think thats about what we have by default apparently that i wasnt aware of
[21:47] <holstein> OR i dont know how to use
[21:47] <holstein> either are likely ;)
[21:48] <persia> We don't have pulseaudio-module-jack by default.
[21:48] <holstein> persia: we = ubuntu?
[21:48] <holstein> like, its not in the repos at all?
[21:48] <persia> And it doesn't have any special interface: if it's set up, pulse tries to register to jack on startup (which doesn't always work as expected, as JACK is often not running at that point)
[21:49] <astraljava> ScottL: Oh I see, I missed that one. Whee! :D
[21:49] <persia> It's in the repos, just not installed by default by any of the flavours (including Ubuntu Studio)
[21:49] <holstein> persia: maybe falk brings that in and uses it*
[21:49] <persia> That would make sense to me.  If it was "very different", I'd worry about duplication of effort, etc.
[21:50] <ScottL> ailo_, i'm having trouble getting pulseaudio-module-jack to work as david h. has suggested on the mailing list
[21:50] <holstein> ScottL: im hoping to catch up with that thread
[21:50] <holstein> he made is sound simple
[21:51] <holstein> i personally didnt get it going til falks package, not that i tried terribly hard
[21:51] <rexbron> Is there a page for the ubuntustudio-controls redeisgn?
[21:51] <ScottL> holstein, aye, that he did....just didn't work for me yet
[21:52] <ailo_> rexbron, Are you interested in coding us-controls? I'm supposed to start soon, but I'm guessing you have a lot more experience in coding
[21:52] <ailo_> ScottL, holstein Seems to me falktx is the man to talk to about that
[21:52] <rexbron> ailo_: lol, I'd be intersted in helping. As for coding skills, they are pretty pathetic
[21:52]  * rexbron 's BFA counts for something though
[21:52] <ScottL> ailo_, but he keeps doing stuff that we simply are not going to get into the repos
[21:53] <ScottL> ailo_, i don't think solutions proposed by falktx are going to work for us
[21:53] <rexbron> What is the status about per-package uploading/ seeding domains? persia?
[21:53] <ScottL> i certainly wished it was otherwise
[21:53] <ailo_> ScottL, I think it would be good to pick out the things we can easily handle at least, and see if we can put them in
[21:54] <ScottL> rexbron, there is an older page about -controls update, would you like me to find it?
[21:55] <persia> rexbron, All the infrastructure is in place: it needs a request from the flavour (best if from the leader), and then individuals become eligible to apply.
[21:55] <rexbron> ScottL: sure, I think we need to look at what exactly still is needed to be done with -controls
[21:57] <ailo_> rexbron: What we absolutely need is probably only administering realtime privilege for users.
[21:57] <ScottL> rexbron, there are several to choose from :P   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ControlsRedesign?highlight=%28ubuntustudio\-controls%29
[21:57] <ScottL> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/ReleasePlanning#Ubuntu%20Studio%20Controls
[21:57] <ailo_> rexbron, paultag had the idea to make us-controls pluginable. This is something I've thought about too.
[21:57] <persia> ailo_, That should be rtkit.  I thought that the main outstanding bit was memlock control.
[21:58] <rexbron> ailo_: plugin able? How so?
[21:58] <ScottL> paultag had one but i can't find the webpage
[21:58] <ailo_> rexbron, The main application in a system-tray menu would be a system settings application
[21:58] <ScottL> rexbron, i have hoping to have ubuntustudio-dev set up soon as a delegated team within a couple of months for upload rights
[21:59] <ailo_> rexbron, If someone wants to add features for the controls, just add an application that will end up in the menu. That's my idea. Don't know if it will happen though
[21:59] <rexbron> ailo_: simplier to just modify the source of controls
[21:59] <ailo_> persia, As far as I understand, rtkit will not be the way we get realtime privilege to jack
[22:00] <ailo_> rexbron, I've already made a new app. Just missing some python specific code.
[22:00] <rexbron> ailo_: link me to the branch?
[22:01] <persia> ailo_, Is that because someone actively is opposed, or just because it wasn't done?  I thought the main reason it wasn't done yet was that it wasn't enough without a memlock solution.
[22:01] <ailo_> rexbron, I don't have the code up right now. I can upload it to gitorious..
[22:01] <rexbron> ailo_: I don't know if this has been decided project wide but using bzr makes things integrate a lot better
[22:01] <ailo_> persia, I've only been talking with las. I have no idea who is working on that on the Debian/Ubuntu side
[22:02] <rexbron> ailo_: also, there is already a -controls project on launchpad
[22:02] <persia> ailo_, Was there some decision from las that rtkit should not be used, or only the prior notes about it not solving the problems, so not worth doing?
[22:04] <ailo_> persia, I asked him if the way we access realtime privilege will change, for example using rtkit. He said no. He also doesn't think adjusting memlock is needed. He thinks memlock unlimited is fine.
[22:05] <persia> memlock unlimited *is* a change.
[22:05] <persia> That's why the configuration file is needed.
[22:06] <persia> If we had a way to do per-application memlock, it would make sense for JACK to request it.
[22:06] <ailo_> persia, I would like to find out if adjusting memlock has any positive effects, though. Some say they will have system lockups with memlock unlimited
[22:06] <persia> and if that was happening, switching to rtkit at the same time makes sense.
[22:06] <persia> Yes.
[22:06] <persia> That's why ideally memlock should only be unlimited for jackd.
[22:06] <persia> But that requires writing memkit, or some similar thing.
[22:07] <rexbron> ailo_: hit me up when you have the link, I'm curious to see what you've done :)
[22:07] <persia> (which I believe nobody has done)
[22:07] <persia> But now is a better time for ubuntustudio-controls: we're not going to fix the memlock-is-only-configurable-by-user/group issue within Ubuntu Studio.
[22:08] <ailo_> rexbron, Ok :P. It uses scripts to execute the commands, and I was not thinking of using it as a base - more as inspiration for a UbuntuStudio Controls system settings application.
[22:08] <rexbron> ailo_: Scripts are fine, just import them into the app indicator
[22:15] <rexbron> ailo_: I'm waiting ;)
[22:16] <ailo_> Working on it
[22:16] <ailo_> Just had to check it works first
[22:21] <ailo_> rexbron, git clone git://gitorious.org/old-uscontrols/old-uscontrols.git
[22:21] <ailo_> rexbron, If you want to see it in action, add the files ending with *.sh to /usr/lib/ubuntustudio-controls
[22:24] <ailo_> To get the memlock value updated at each boot, I think it would be good to have a script that does that in /etc/init*. Just add a percentage value in /etc/ubuntustudio-controls and have the file /etc/security.limits.d/audio.conf be updated if needed. I'm thinking of the possibility that someone adds or removes memory from their system.
[22:27] <rexbron> ailo_: that strikes me as a rather rare occurance
[22:27] <rexbron> some general comments
[22:27] <rexbron> having seperate bash script files is less idea I think
[22:27] <rexbron> I guess what I don
[22:27] <ailo_> rexbron, This application was a hack, so only to be regarded as a design idea, nothing more
[22:28] <rexbron> I guess what I don't have is a grasp of what exactly needs to be done
[22:29] <rexbron> people still wish to set memlock
[22:29] <ailo_> rexbron, For me, I think administering realtime privilege is the firstmost important feature. The other to adjust memlock. Then, there are further ideas that can be explored and added. That is from what base I was intending to work from in the coming weeks. First code a simple but well functioning app, then add features if wanted or needed
[22:30] <rexbron> ailo_: may I suggest a different design?
[22:30] <ailo_> rexbron, Sure
[22:31] <rexbron> if you go the appindicator route, I feel that it would be more accessable to users and more clearly focused in it's intent
[22:31] <rexbron> rather than a full fledged application
[22:32] <ailo_> rexbron, That's the way I want to go. Make an app indicator. I also have been working on a system check script in usermode that checks if user has realtime privilege and if user is running a lowlatency kernel
[22:32] <ailo_> I mean, make an indicator menu, with an item called "system-settings" where you can adjust some things
[22:34] <ailo_> Back to the system-check script: If user does not have the goodies for realtime audio, it announces that.
[22:34] <rexbron> ailo_: shouldn't they have those by default after installation?
[22:34] <ailo_> rexbron, Not if they use Ubuntu Vanilla as base
[22:35] <rexbron> ailo_: I wouldn't consider those supported users
[22:35] <ScottL> ailo_, rexbron , i wouldn't mind if -controls even expanded to help with turning pulse off/turn jack on, transport for jack, connections for jack, and/or even install new applications based on work flows
[22:35] <ScottL> but this is "pie in the sky" stuff, not just mundane
[22:35] <rexbron> ScottL: there are simpler, existing solutions for all of those imo
[22:36] <rexbron> ScottL: at least with my vanilla ubuntu 11.04, pulse shuts off when jack is started
[22:36] <rexbron> then restarts when it's closed
[22:36] <rexbron> Is that not the case in studio?
[22:39] <ailo_> I believe, since US is in the main repo, it should be directed to all Ubuntu users, not just Ubuntu Studio users. It's not a big stretch to let non technical users adjust their system for realtime audio by allowing us-controls to handle that.
[22:40] <rexbron> I would argue that if they choose to go that route, then they are responsible for configuring their system but that's me
[22:40]  * rexbron dislikes handholding
[22:42] <persia> I'm also not in favour of handholding, but I don't believe we can safely rely on installer behaviour to dictate system behaviour, especially as the number of methods of installation keeps growing.
[22:43] <rexbron> fair enough
[22:43] <rexbron> but where exactly do we draw the line?
[22:44] <rexbron> I guess I don't see do it once actions as being something to include in controls
[22:44] <ailo_> I don't like the idea of having all-in-one applications
[22:44] <rexbron> for things like that, perhaps a gnome-system-controls item could be used
[22:45] <rexbron> but that won't be included in xfce
[22:45] <ailo_> if us-controls would be pluginable, you could add apps like qjackctl to the menu
[22:45] <persia> I don't think we want to stuff everything into ubuntustudio-controls.
[22:46] <rexbron> but why?
[22:46] <rexbron> why would you want or need qjackctl in that meny
[22:46] <rexbron> menu rather
[22:46] <persia> If you want qjackctl to be more tightly integrated, there are useful alternate tools to manage that.
[22:46]  * rexbron mentions lash
[22:47] <persia> Well, lash is deprecated these days in favour of ladish.
[22:47] <persia> But I was thinking of some of Hans Baier's work.
[22:47] <persia> e.g. jackpanel
[22:48] <ailo_> Another idea is having a multimedia app-manager, that has a different database of info, than the standard one
[22:48] <persia> http://www.hansfbaier.de/wordpress/jackpanel/
[22:49] <persia> (this isn't in the repos mostly because not enough people reviewed/advocated Hans' work, not because it isn't any good: Hans was even on this channel for a while)
[22:51] <ailo_> One thing that I liked about KXStudio was the list of applications that showed what they supported - ladspa, vst, etc
[22:51] <ailo_> That sort of oversight is often missing
[23:03] <ScottL> rexbron, re: pulse shuts off when jack is started...yes, that is currently the case, qjackctl.dekstop runs pasuspender first
[23:05] <ailo_> I believe jackd2 disables pa too, but not jackd1
[23:05] <ailo_> If run from a terminal
[23:06] <persia> That's a bug, or rather a leftover workaround from a bug.
[23:06] <persia> JACK should suspect pulse if pulse is using the sound card JACK is using, and ignore it otherwise.
[23:07] <persia> For extra points, if pulseaudio-module-jack is available, and JACK wants to use the sound card pulse is using, it should reconnect pulse as jack
[23:07]  * persia gets tired of shaking and hides in a doorway
[23:08] <ScottL> persia, i'm trying to work with david h. and get this resolved, but i'm not sure it works like everybody thinks it does
[23:08] <persia> Right.
[23:08] <persia> It doesn't :)
[23:09]  * ScottL thinks of princess bride "i don't not think that means what you think it means"
[23:09] <persia> Continuing, reconnect pulse as JACK IO points, in case the user wants to do something, and to not annoy other sound-generating applications.
[23:09] <ScottL> persia, weird, are you prescient?  because you answer that statement almost immediately after i hit enter :P
[23:10] <persia> I live 15 or 16 hours in the future, so it's not quite as fast as you think it is :)
[23:11] <ScottL> oh, well that explains it and i feel much better now , prescient...pttthh!  you live in the future, now that i can believe :P
[23:11] <ScottL> ailo_,  how do you find kxstudio listing supported applications helpful?
[23:12] <persia> So, I've reviewed the relevant thread.
[23:12] <persia> There's a few things that are messy.
[23:12] <ailo_> ScottL, Just seeing what sequencer works with what plugins and instruments make life a lot easier.
[23:13] <persia> 1) The volume controls most folk use don't necessarily have a good view into JACK.
[23:13] <ScottL> ailo_, ahhh, i can wrap my head around that...yes, i think that would be helpful
[23:13] <persia> 2) Just creating inputs/outputs in JACK doesn't always do what the user expects
[23:13] <persia> 3) We don't install integration by default
[23:14] <persia> 4) Our helper tools don't invoke integration with the typical configuration.
[23:15] <persia> 5) I've yet to see anything written on the issue that provides a generic solution for both the single-audio-interface and the multiple-audio-interface model.
[23:15] <persia> ailo_, I actually don't much like the idea of giving the users a big list of applications and telling them which bits work with which other bits: I'd rather try to pick a set of functionality to support, select apps to support that functionality, and make sure they can all use the same sorts of formats.
[23:16] <persia> Yes, this means we don't get all possible functionality, but it also makes it much more accessible to just get things done.
[23:16] <ScottL> persia, to which thread are you referring?
[23:16] <persia> And this reduces the number of folk who get frustrated and just go write their own tool from scratch (e.g. jokosher)
[23:17] <ailo_> persia, You mean select applications for a standard US install that supports the functions we want to use?
[23:17] <persia> ScottL, Subject "PulseAudio and Ubuntu Studio 11.10" starting from ckontros writing "As it is so tightly woven into Ubuntu, I suspect it will. We are however looking to better integrate JACK with PA. (seems like we've been trying this forever)"
[23:18] <persia> ailo_, Rather, the functions we intend to support as first-class use cases.  I'm not convinced that this will precisely match the functions any one of us wants to use.
[23:18] <persia> The idea is to pick sensible defaults for the majority case, and then make everything in those defaults work together.
[23:18] <persia> Those with more specialised needs can select from a wider software set, with the expectation that other things may not work together quite as well.
[23:19] <persia> We can't fix all of Linux Audio (nor do I think this is a good idea: attempting to do so would stifle innovation), but we probably can help make sure a few applications to achieve some goal work together well, achieve common workflows, and are well documented.
[23:22] <persia> (mind you, these are my ideas: I don't expect everyone to agree :) )
[23:25] <ScottL> my largest desire is to clean up the mess between jack and pulse....i think that will alleviate many headaches
[23:26] <ailo_> persia, I agree with you. I would rather have a small set of applications in a standard US install, that we know will work for the most common use cases, than have a full variety.
[23:27] <persia> ailo_, Heh, OK.  Sorry to jump on you: I just worry that we'll end up solving the problems that users complain about and miss solving the problems that cause few people to bother being users.
[23:27] <ScottL> i don't expect this, but i would like it for canonical to hire someone just to sort this out
[23:27] <ScottL> s/like it for/appreciate if
[23:28] <ScottL> as an aside, i started getting my nanokontrol set up :)
[23:28] <persia> ScottL, I think that if we patch qjackctl, and have it recommend pulseaudio-module-jack, and add an autoconnect script to pulseaudio-module-jack, and use jackdbus by default, we have a chance: in my mind the unsolved piece is that I don't believe the current setup works well for folks with multiple audio interfaces (like yourself).
[23:29] <persia> If waiting for Canonical to do things was how we did things, there would never have been an Ubuntu Studio.
[23:29] <ScottL> heh, very true persia
[23:29] <ailo_> To inform users what they can use and how to use it, documentation/info is the first and most important way to do that, but if a multimedia app-manager would make things even easier, I wouldn't mind using that.
[23:29] <persia> As much as I appreciate all the contributions Canonical makes to Ubuntu, I feel very strongly that we can't rely on them to make sure our goals are met (meaning each of our individual goals, not just Ubuntu Studio goals)
[23:30] <persia> ailo_, It might, but my fear is that we'd be deluged with requests to add information about new/different application mixes, and it would become a support nightmare.  I could be wrong (and I typically don't do support)
[23:30] <ScottL> well, if canonical would hire me for ubuntu studio, maybe i _could_ make them all happen :P
[23:31] <persia> Do you think that Canonical would be markedly better at gaining money from your work on Ubuntu Studio than you could be yourself?
[23:33] <ailo_> persia, It would need to be a separate application no doubt. But, it would make sense having it a part of controls, if it were available in Debian repo for instance. Just entertaining the idea so far.
[23:34] <ScottL> persia, no i do not think so
[23:35] <persia> ailo_, I suppose.  I think it's a mountain or work, but we all need to do the things that we want to do, so if you think it's important, go ahead :)
[23:35] <persia> ScottL, In that case, I'll say you'd get paid better to work on Ubuntu Studio if you did it yourself.
[23:35]  * persia tries to come up with three business models for Ubuntu Studio developers
[23:35] <ailo_> persia, I'm only concerned with the design of us-controls and what it could be used for in a longer perspective while making it very simple at first
[23:36] <persia> 1) Provide installation/training/support services to "basement" studios in your city.
[23:36] <persia> 2) Run a "basement" studio
[23:36] <persia> 3) Use Ubuntu Studio and "found sounds" to generate soundfonts for use by foley artists
[23:37] <persia> ailo_, Personally, I think that the long-term goal should be to not have ubuntustudio-controls.
[23:38] <ailo_> persia, That would work too
[23:38] <persia> For packages we aren't sharing with other flavours, we should just patch them to do the right thing (sometimes this is hard, like JACK and memlock)
[23:39] <persia> For packages we are sharing with other flavours, we should try to find common default configurations: if this is impossible, we should extend the package to allow drop-in default snippets (for examples, look at how gconf-defaults works, or gdm)
[23:40] <persia> And in certain special cases where we can't come to agreement, we should fork (examples are the variety of linux-* packages in the archive, or having both "mutter" and "metacity")
[23:40]  * saidinesh5 really wanted something like GetHotNewStuff for Soundfonts ....... download and share all the freesound fonts
[23:41] <persia> saidinesh5, Last I knew, there were about 3 free soundfonts.  The tools need a bit of work, and the soundfont community needs a fair bit of cultural adjustment to generate free artifacts.
[23:42] <saidinesh5> persia: over the last few years i ve collected a lot of nice and free soundfonts in the public domain
[23:42] <persia> Unfortunately, "the public domain" is meaningless in most countries.
[23:43] <saidinesh5> as in?
[23:43] <persia> Which then causes such soundfonts to revert to regular copyright models, which makes it a crime to distribute them.
[23:43] <saidinesh5> ohh
[23:43] <persia> I believe that the UK is the only EU member that recognises "public domain", just to pick a few examples.
[23:43] <saidinesh5> but the creators themselves say "do whatever you want"
[23:43] <persia> They need to do that in a way that is binding.
[23:44] <persia> Creative Commons has some good licenses.
[23:44] <saidinesh5> oh
[23:44] <ScottL> persia, for business models, troy_s had a good one of getting ubuntu studio into educational institutions and then charging for support
[23:45] <saidinesh5> well ScottL are we really ready for that ??
[23:45] <persia> saidinesh5, Don't get me wrong: I'm *really* happy with the growth in the zero-cost soundfont community: there are some tools bugs, but lots of the rest can be solved with education.
[23:46] <persia> ScottL, I know several people who do educational support to fund their work in Ubuntu: apparently it's highly personally satisfying, although dealing with the School Boards to get in can be annoying.
[23:46] <ScottL> saidinesh5, it the person knows the ins-and-outs of ubuntu studio and can do after installation setup :)
[23:46] <saidinesh5> persia: and especially with musicians have 0 tolerance for any fuss
[23:47] <persia> saidinesh5, Depends on the musician, but often, yeah, one doesn't bother learning about contracts until one has an agent who does that for one.
[23:47] <saidinesh5> i tried to get my friends try things out and installation itself is the end of the story
[23:48] <ckontros> I'm not gonna chime in on the technical stuff on the list (as I here for 1 thing really) but VST support from packages in the official repos won't happen.
[23:49] <saidinesh5> but there are a lot of free VSTs which work natively.. arent they?
[23:50] <persia> Well, at least not before 13.10
[23:51] <persia> saidinesh5, Steinberg would have to extend a license to someone to be able to ship a working host.  There's debate in the area, but most folk try to avoid violating known patents.
[23:51] <ckontros> saidinesh5: IIRC simply having VST support means having packages like Ardour with support for ALL VSTs. Unless something has changes lately.
[23:51] <saidinesh5> no but the free implementation of VST standard?
[23:51] <ckontros> *changed
[23:52]  * ckontros will let persia handle this.
[23:52] <persia> ckontros, Well, there was VST 3.5 in February: I'm not sure that any of the hosts we have support 3.5 yet.
[23:52] <saidinesh5> a good support for VST 2.x itself is a big deal though
[23:54] <saidinesh5> ardour 3 does midi too right?
[23:54] <ckontros> persia: Has the implementation been "freed" in some way? A new free version of VST?
[23:54] <persia> saidinesh5, My understanding is that there are some implementations that attempt to support some versions of VST, for which there is free code, a couple issues occur:
[23:54]  * saidinesh5 has really lost touch with the multimedia apps in foss world for the last 2 years ....... hoping to get back to all of them now that he has graduated
[23:55] <persia> 1) There are some patents (starting in 1996) on VST technologies, which would need to be licensed to sell a product (and Ubuntu Studio must be able to be sold).
[23:55] <ckontros> saidinesh5: Are you Ralf? (from the list)
[23:56] <saidinesh5> ckontros: nope... just got interested in ubuntu studio (once again) just a few days ago
[23:56] <persia> 2) There are some dependencies in many VSTs that require them to be run in Windows, or in WINE.  Since WINE is virus-compatible with Windows, we probably want to think several times before installing it by default (note that we did install it by default last I looked).
[23:56] <ckontros> saidinesh5: Ok. I was wondering.
[23:57] <saidinesh5> persia: iirc there are some native linux vsts too
[23:57] <saidinesh5> we can start with them ?
[23:58] <persia> saidinesh5, Sure.  Just get a license from Steinberg to distribute a VST host under a license that allows those to whom you distribute it to to redistribute it.
[23:58] <persia> then grant that license to your favorite open source VST host, and watch it become everyone's favorite within a month.
[23:59] <ckontros> holstein: Mention to Ralf that saying things like "I can try to help a little bit, but I'm not a coder and I don't want to spend too much time with testing etc. any more." really isn't the best way motivate anyone to help work on things. ;)
[23:59] <saidinesh5> persia: how about Vestige?
[23:59] <saidinesh5> the way the lmms folks do it


[00:38] <rick_h_> snap-l: http://tilloy.net/dev/pyexiv2/
[00:40] <snap-l> danke
[12:33] <brousch> I picked up a RaspberryPi last night
[12:34] <rick_h_> heh, they're contagious
[12:35] <brousch> I felt like the only one in GRMakers without one
[13:10] <rick_h_> jcastro: time to jump in with some wet shave love http://etbe.coker.com.au/2013/05/23/noise-shaving/
[13:31] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:32] <rick_h_> morn
[13:32] <snap-l> Had one of the drives on my work machine fail
[13:32] <rick_h_> :(
[13:32] <snap-l> I think it was temperature related.
[13:32] <snap-l> at least it was in a RAID, so am waiting for it to rebuild.
[13:33] <snap-l> And forgot my coffee at home
[13:33] <snap-l> but other than that, it's jeans day at work. :)
[13:33] <snap-l> so I'm happy about that. :)
[13:36] <brousch> I make Fridays Hawaiian Shirt days for my department in the summer
[13:47] <jrwren> jcastro: are you alive? or did jill kill you?
[14:43] <jcastro> jrwren: I am in the doghouse
[14:43] <jcastro> but it was worth it!
[14:43] <snap-l> ruh ron
[14:44] <jrwren> hahaha.
[14:44] <jrwren> i'm hurting.
[14:44] <jrwren> we drank a lot.
[14:54] <jcastro> yeah
[14:56] <brousch> A lot of what?
[14:57] <jjesse> brousch, water
[15:52] <rick_h_> oh hey, look what I ran across in my rss http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ewp7d/request_for_proposals_mediawiki_release_management/ :P greg-g
[15:55] <jcastro> jrwren: I think most of my issue was not knowing she was calling
[15:55] <jcastro> And blaming Ubuntu for that was so not an excuse
[15:55] <jcastro> "What do you mean your phone doesn't vibrate when someone calls, all phones do that."
[15:56] <rick_h_> lol, that's awesome
[15:58] <rick_h_> coolest lego build evar? http://gizmodo.com/this-incredible-full-scale-lego-x-wing-is-the-largest-m-509484787
[15:59] <brousch> that's crazy
[16:03] <snap-l> That's insane
[16:04] <snap-l> I can't believe that's all lego in there
[16:07] <snap-l> There's apparently a steel structure in there
[16:07] <snap-l> but still... damn that's impressibe
[17:37] <rick_h_> jrwren: regex question for you if you're around
[17:39] <jrwren> i'm here
[17:39] <rick_h_> http://refiddle.com/gqh jrwren
[17:40] <rick_h_> jrwren: so trying to change this from just saying "any char not a :" to "not the characters /: in a row"
[17:41] <jrwren> it says I'm not auth for that link
[17:44] <jrwren> [^:] => (?!/:)
[17:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: hmm, did that work for you in the fiddle? Not matching here.
[17:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: so /:flags:\/((?!\/:))*/g ?
[17:48] <rick_h_> err /:flags:\/((?!/:))*/g
[17:48] <jrwren> fiddle doesn't work for me at all
[17:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: k
[17:49] <rick_h_> trying it just in the source
[17:50] <jrwren> the problem is that it is negative lookahead
[17:50] <rick_h_> yea
[17:50] <jrwren> hrm.
[17:50] <jrwren> maybe [^/][^:] ?
[17:50] <jrwren> yes, that works
[17:50] <rick_h_> yea, that works
[17:50] <rick_h_> cool, thanks
[17:50] <jrwren> err, no it doesn't.
[17:50] <jrwren> does it?
[17:51] <jrwren> problem is that regex engines eval char by char (mostly)
[17:51] <rick_h_> well working in the fiddle. Puttnig it into the test code now
[17:51] <jrwren> ok, gl
[17:51] <jrwren> hate to write a grammar for this :p
[17:51] <rick_h_> thanks, I was trying to get the lookahead working
[17:51] <rick_h_> well, honestly, I just want to get rid of a trailing / and in the code review somenoe hates my manual rstrip code and wants me to fix teh regex to do it for me :/
[17:52] <jrwren> that is stupid.
[17:52] <jrwren> just use rstrip :p
[17:52] <rick_h_> it's in JS so there's no rstrip
[17:54] <jrwren> write an rstrip and call it :p
[19:11] <jcastro> jrwren: did I leave my laptop bag in your car?
[19:18] <jrwren> jcastro: i don't think so, but maybe.
[19:18] <jrwren> jcastro: did you find it? I could have sworn i made sure that you grabbed it.
[19:18] <jrwren> if you don't see it let me know, I'll go check my car.
[19:18] <brousch> Maybe you drunk craigslisted it
[19:19] <snap-l> brousch: Is this a problem for you? :)
[19:19] <brousch> Just offering helpful suggestions
[19:19] <jcastro> jrwren: I appear to have misplaced my own laptop in my own house
[19:20] <snap-l> jcastro: Yeah, nobody has ever done that. ;)
[19:22] <jrwren> so you found the empty bag but no laptop?
[19:22] <jrwren> this is why I like small houses. :p
[19:23] <jcastro> I can't find the bag, lol
[19:24] <brousch> Small houses mean more creative storage places
[19:24] <snap-l> small houses == everything is in the garaga
[19:24] <snap-l> garage
[19:25] <jcastro> n0p: ping!
[19:26] <jrwren> jcastro: its in my car.
[19:26] <jrwren> bring me pizza and you can have it :p
[19:26] <jcastro> heh
[19:26] <jcastro> I could have sworn we brought it in
[19:27] <jrwren> me too, but I was pretty tired.
[19:27] <jcastro> how long are you @ work today? I am over there picking up my car after work
[19:28] <jrwren> 5ish
[19:28] <jcastro> perfecto
[19:28] <jrwren> cool
[19:28] <jcastro> I'll give you a ring and swing by
[19:28] <jrwren> i'll give you a tour of the office
[19:29] <jrwren> quick tour
[19:31] <snap-l> Ask jrwren to show you the bodies at least.
[19:42] <brousch> Should I be using python unittest or is there something better?
[19:43] <brousch> nose?
[19:47] <jrwren> nose
[19:47] <jrwren> i'd not go so far as to say it is a must, but it is a very nice thing.
[19:47] <jrwren> use the nice things, if you can.
[19:47] <snap-l> Yeah, nose is nice.
[20:18] <jrwren> how long will it take to run 15000+ iptables commands?
[20:47] <jrwren> jcastro: you coming up here?
[20:51] <jcastro> yeah
[20:51] <jcastro> jill isn't home yet
[20:51] <jcastro> she should be pulling up any second now
[20:51] <jrwren> oh, ok
[20:51] <jcastro> do you end @ 5?
[20:52] <jcastro> jrwren: ok she's stuck in traffic, mind if I stop by tommorrow?
[20:53] <jrwren> you can live without your computer for 2 days?!?! that is CRAZY
[20:53] <jrwren> yes, I'll be in office all day tomorrow, stop by anytime.
[20:56] <jcastro> I have 7 more, heh
[21:02] <snap-l> jcastro has a laptop for every day of the week
[21:02] <snap-l> some that coordinate as well
[21:08] <jrwren> 45minutes. it takes about 45minutes.
[21:14] <jrwren> but iptables-restore runs in under .2s
[21:14] <jrwren> yay


[14:52] <coz_>  hey guys
[14:55] <coz_> noticed that transition from singel to dual monitor,, nvidia,  has a great deal of video corruption during the transition../. generally it's fine,, at times , however, the desktop turns white,, you are probably aware of this already
[17:14] <hypodermia> oh hi. is this where unity discussion might be going on?
[17:23] <hypodermia> well if anybody wakes up, does anybody know if someone's bothered to write a compiz plugin yet that causes an audible bell? or where i might ask about that?
[19:31] <marty_> I've noticed that Unity is opening one of my apps in Desktop2 all the time which is not nice, anyone know how I ask it to stop doing that.
[19:49] <MC_BTay> hey, what's up?
[19:51] <MC_BTay> i'm in the middle of trying to develop a weather application for the unity launcher, and one feature i wanted access to, but have been having trouble with, is changing the launcher icon.  i noticed that the trash icon does this... does anyone have any clue where the actual implementation of the trash icon on the unity launcher would be so that i could determine how they are doing it?
[23:26] <Gotisch> is there a way to force overlay buttons to be inside the application instead of outside the application window?
[23:27] <Gotisch> im talkin about the scrollbar
[23:27] <Gotisch> wow that sounded confused :)
[23:32] <coz_> Gotisch,  the only thing is that i am  not sure who is available on this channel on the weekends
[23:35] <MC_BTay> what's up
[23:37] <MC_BTay> i had a few questions, if anyone is here to attempt to help
[23:40] <Gotisch> well i looked a bit at code and doesn't seem like there is any config options related to this
[23:41] <MC_BTay> is that a response to me? cause i did ask my question on here earlier i think, i'm an IRC noob :\
[23:44] <hypodermia> MC_BTay: nah he was talking before you got here
[23:44] <MC_BTay> hypodermia: thanks for the clarification :B
[23:45] <hypodermia> sure thing
[23:45] <MC_BTay> so i've been attempting to create a weather app for the unity launcher... and i've been using python thus far... does anyone know how i can force an icon change? similar to the functionality of the trash button on the unity launcher?
[23:53] <MC_BTay> if anyone has any ideas relating to my question, that'd be great :)


[00:36] <goddard> in my settings app the Audio item shows nothing
[00:36] <goddard> am I missing a package?
 hello everyone ehre .
[02:45] <mmikowski> goddard: Can you take a look at pulseaudio?  That might be a good start.
 138Q
 1380
 Hi guys can i install zram on kubuntu?
 5 or 6 years ago it worked ok. Have not tried recently, but guess nothing has changed (re @erfan_sta: Hi guys can i install zram on kubuntu?)
[13:31] <BluesKaj> Hi all
 Getting "could not install dependency" while installing global themes
 Is there any differences if I install Kubuntu directly, compare to install Ubuntu then apt install KDE desktop?
[14:12] <arraybolt3[m]> yepmuchnun: Possibly - if you install Ubuntu Server and then add KDE Desktop, that might be pretty similar (though not for sure identical) to Kubuntu - if you install Ubuntu Desktop and then add KDE on top, you'll have both GNOME and KDE and possibly a broken system too.
 The kde desktop meta packages that we inherit from debian do not install our settings or optimisations (re @yepmunchun: Is there any differences if I install Kubuntu directly, compare to install Ubuntu then apt install KDE desktop?)
 If you want a default kubuntu install, you need to install the kubuntu-desktop package
 We believe that this gives a better experience compared to the debian deafult
[14:14] <arraybolt3[m]> Right, forgot about that.
 Kindly help with this guys (re @ethswaap: Getting "could not install dependency" while installing global themes)
 how to install lightly
[17:39] <arraybolt3[m]> @Abu: Like a minimal installation?
 yes
[17:40] <arraybolt3[m]> @Abu: Is there something wrong with the minimal installation checkbox provided during the installation procedure?
 now what can i do for installation (re @IrcsomeBot: <arraybolt3[m]> @Abu: Is there something wrong with the minimal installation checkbox provided during the installation procedure?)
[17:56] <arraybolt3[m]> @Abu: I think after you check the box you just proceed with the rest of the installation.
 I need lightly
[18:18] <arraybolt3[m]> @Abu: I must be missing something - the way to get a minimal install should be to check the box for a minimal installation, then proceed with the rest of the installation normally if I'm not mistaken,
 Which box i dont get this thinks
 Things
[18:20] <arraybolt3[m]> @Abu: Is there not a thing where it says "Normal installation" and then underneath "Minimal installation"?
 My English is very bad...i m sorry
 But i need lightly any way
 Hello is here someone who can help me with wine things or is this offtopic? Sadly i dont know where to ask instead of here
 Is there a wine discord?
 Is there a winetelegram channel or discord server ?
[20:29] <tomreyn> Oskar: most of the time, there is no answer to your wine problem. what's the problem you're trying to solve, though? and have you considered non wine based approaches?
[20:30] <tomreyn> !alis | Oskar: in case you're looking for a WINE related IRC channel on this Libera.chat network
[20:31] <tomreyn> other than that, a project's website will often list available support channels, if any.


[06:29] <jibel> Good morning
[06:45] <didrocks> good morning
[07:38] <jibel> salut didrocks
[07:39] <didrocks> hey jibel
[07:51] <duflu> Morning jibel and didrocks
[07:58] <jibel> Salut duflu
[07:58] <marcustomlinson> morning jibel didrocks duflu
[08:01] <duflu> Hi marcustomlinson
[08:02] <jibel> Morning marcustomlinson
[08:09] <didrocks999> hey duflu, marcustomlinson
[09:04] <Laney> what a MISERABLE day it is here!
[09:08] <duflu> Umm, hi Laney
[09:09] <duflu> And hi didrocks
[09:09] <duflu> again
[09:09] <duflu> Getting late in the week, clearly
[09:10] <didrocks> second hi duflu :p hey Laney
[09:21] <marcustomlinson> hey Laney
[09:22] <Laney> peace duflu didrocks marcustomlinson
[10:26] <Laney> snowing
[10:26] <Laney> what's up with that
[15:33] <hellsworth> good morning desktopers
[15:41] <Laney> yo hellsworth
[15:41] <hellsworth> hey there Laney
[15:42] <Laney> what up
[15:43] <hellsworth> well it's relative to where you're standing
[18:33]  * KristijanZic sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/FlHXojtcDBMwUqShKoCgBNGv/message.txt >
[18:35] <KristijanZic> Is the a workaround, does anyone know any wine devs and can get in touch with them to fix the key?
[18:35] <KristijanZic>  * Is there a workaround, does anyone know any wine devs and can get in touch with them to fix the key?
[19:14] <sarnold> KristijanZic: what errors did you get when yuou followed the instructions under "Download and add the repository key" ?
[20:28]  * KristijanZic sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/sVohQUMzkMyKsxHPKcjgrOHP/message.txt >
[20:29]  * KristijanZic sent a long message:  < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/ElzkUgeBTXsmOhYNBlgfGcuP/message.txt >
[20:33] <sarnold> KristijanZic: interesting; try moving /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/graphics:darktable:master.gpg to another location, then re-try that sudo apt-key add winehq.key command
[20:38] <KristijanZic> I removed the key, added wine key and readded the darktable one. It worked
[20:43] <sarnold> KristijanZic: sweet!


[00:00] <pak33m> and youll need the maddog too
[00:02] <itnet7> Hey there jamalta ! Sweet, Hope to see you soon!
[00:04] <jamalta> You too! Sorry it was such a short trip :(
[00:04] <jamalta> I really miss all of you and fl altogether.
[00:04] <itnet7> I am just glad that some of you guys were able to meetup!! Pak33m or someone please take a couple of pics to share!!!
[00:05] <itnet7> Glad you're doing well
[00:22] <pak33m> itnet7: but i will break the camera
[00:22] <itnet7> lol
[06:47] <klutzz> anyone up at this time of the morning?
[14:38] <munz> morning all :)
[20:46] <munz> Sup3rCalaFragaList1cExpeAlaDocisus!
[20:46] <munz> OHHH CRAP!!! i just did it again!
[20:46] <munz> j/k lol :P


[00:47] <julian_dax> Hi...
[00:47] <gassho> hello
[00:47] <gassho> social chat goes in #kubuntu-offtopic
[00:47] <gassho> but if you have an issue, we work with those here :)
[00:48] <julian_dax> Hi gassho, where you from?
[00:49] <gassho> est
[00:50] <gassho> eastern standard time
[00:51]  * gassho scared :c
[00:51]  * MangaKaDenza hides in a box
[00:52]  * MangaKaDenza claustrophobic
[00:52]  * MangaKaDenza scared
[00:52] <MangaKaDenza> :c
[00:52] <FloodBotK1> MangaKaDenza: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[00:52]  * genii gently cuffs MangaKaDenza
[00:58] <FloodBotK1> !netsplit
[01:33] <gassho> when does this channel besides netsplits, allow flooding?
[01:35] <gassho> ;p
[01:41] <gassho> aloha
[02:11] <pulasan> hi
[02:29] <MangaKaDenza> say
[02:29] <MangaKaDenza> how do I change the desktop manager
[02:30] <MangaKaDenza> from kde to lightdm
[02:30] <MangaKaDenza> er kdm
[02:30] <keithzg> MangaKaDenza: Do you have both installed?
[02:30] <MangaKaDenza> yes
[02:31] <keithzg> sudo dpkg-reconfigure kdm
[02:31] <keithzg> or sudo dpkg-reconfigure lightdm
[02:31] <keithzg> either should prompt you to choose your default desktop manager.
[02:32] <MangaKaDenza> thank you
[02:33] <keithzg> np
[02:46] <testingkubu> how do i install a canon network driver using the tar.gz file from the manufacturer? I have had no success using Printer Configuration; it sees it but doesn't install the Canon driver
[02:46] <testingkubu> *sees the network printer
[02:47] <keithzg> testingkubu: Can you link to the file?
[02:47] <testingkubu> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/printers_multifunction/imageclass_series/imageclass_mf4690#DriversAndSoftware
[05:56] <danilo> mirc /server irc.chlame.net
[06:14] <MangaKaDenza> I am now away
[06:46] <MangaKaDenza> say
[06:46] <MangaKaDenza> how do I remove all panels?
[06:48] <MangaKaDenza> actually nvm
[07:25] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:35] <excognac> hi all
[09:36] <excognac> in none of my browsers (chrome, firefox) new tabs are opened ever (e.g. bugs.kde.org from bugtracker dialog or rightclick->open new tab)  why is that?
[09:39] <Walex> excognac: it is very unlikely that it is a single cause for all of them...
[09:40] <Walex> excognac: however I have seen it happen when the browser(s) have run out of memory; easier on a 32b system, more difficult on a 64b system with lots of memory.
[09:40] <Walex> excognac: but then Chrome has a process per page, so even in 32b mode it should be unlikely.
[09:41] <excognac> Walex: firefox looks useless anyway. I'd skip here raging why i have to use 13.10 and not 12.04. it1s 64bit sys with 4 GB DDram
[09:42] <excognac> Walex: bugtraxker is the worst buggy thing . i had the false hope i can use it to help to improve kde.
[09:42] <excognac> *tracker
[09:43] <Walex> excognac: but neither Chrome nor Firefox are KDE-related...
[09:44] <excognac> Walex: i just forgot my login for bugtracker, it was mmuon-discover crashed
[09:48] <excognac> http://bugs.kde.org/ still exist?
[09:48] <excognac> s
[09:58] <jussi> Has anyone seen this on chromium before? http://i.imgur.com/lc15rK3.png
[09:59] <jussi> Its weird because I have it on chromium, but not chrome
[10:01] <Tm_T> jussi: what I'm supposed to see here? as in, what is the problem?
[10:01] <jussi> Tm_T: the menu?
[10:01] <jussi> Tm_T: ie. the fact it exists?
[10:02] <Tm_T> it's there no matter what you do?
[10:02] <Tm_T> that's the menu that comes from the icon/button that has 3 horizontal lines in upper right corner, isn't it?
[10:02] <jussi> no
[10:03] <jussi> if I click on about a 1 pixel space across the top of the screen, I get a menu
[10:03] <jussi> so it works like a normal menu
[10:04] <Tm_T> can't reproduce, sorry
[10:04] <Tm_T> interesting though
[10:04] <jussi> if you look carfefully, there is a grey line across the top of the screen
[10:19] <apachelogger> jussi: that's why we use GTK :P
[10:19] <jussi> apachelogger: wot?
[10:29] <excognac> Do i have to set Default leave option to turn off computer if i want my previous session restored upon booting in System Settings?
[10:49] <syria> Hi, Gparted doesnt work on my kubuntu.
[10:51] <Wizard> syria: Describe "doesn't work"
[10:52] <syria> Wizard:  Actually it was a permissions problem, I have solved it by typing "kdesudo gparted" in the terminal. thank you :)
[10:52] <syria> Wizard:  I want to install windows after kubuntu, I will have to use gparted right?
[10:53] <Wizard> I don't know, I haven't installed Windows for ages. As far as I know, no, you will have to rescue grub, since Windows will overwrite it.
[10:53] <Wizard> But I'm unsure.
[10:54] <yossarianuk> kde partioner doesn;t seem to work for me in kubuntu
[10:54] <yossarianuk> gpafrted does.
[10:54] <yossarianuk> *gparted*
[10:54] <jussi> apachelogger: so did you have some insight into the issue that I have? :D
[10:54] <jussi> yossarianuk: nor I
[10:55] <yossarianuk> i.e I cannot delete a partition that isn't in use...
[10:55] <yossarianuk> with gparted I can.
[10:55] <yossarianuk> and gdisk , ec
[10:56] <apachelogger> jussi: sure, chrome uses gtk
[10:56] <Kiranos> I'm trying to activivate the propiarty nvidia driver but seems to not work
[10:56] <jussi> apachelogger: so... why does it happen in chromium and not chrome?
[10:56] <Kiranos> works out of the box on ubuntu vanilla
[10:57] <apachelogger> jussi: because patches for example, different versions for example...
[10:58] <jussi> apachelogger: so, what can I do about this issue, specifically, how do i turn off the silly menu?
[10:59] <apachelogger> you probably can't
[10:59] <jussi> ... :/
[10:59] <apachelogger> anyway, #ubuntu may be able to help
[10:59] <apachelogger> I have no clue how to runtime introspect GUIs in GTK
[10:59] <apachelogger> if you can do that at all
[11:05] <Kiranos> "Nvidia driver activated but currently not in use"
[11:05] <Kiranos> anyone know how to debug this? gt 440 and works under vanilla ubuntu
[11:06] <Kiranos> also no recommended option is seen for me
[11:08] <Kiranos> http://www.kubuntuforums.net/showthread.php?61665-nvidia-this-driver-is-activated-but-not-in-use
[11:08] <Kiranos> bug
[11:17] <excognac> why i can't open certain pdf files with okular under 13.10 (they were created and could be opened under 12.04?
[11:19] <Wizard> excognac: Any errors in .xsession-errors?
[11:21] <excognac> Wizard: how do i check that?
[11:22] <Wizard> Look into this file after trying to open files which don't open.
[11:24] <excognac> Wizard:  cat .xsession-errors Script for cjkv started at run_im. Script for default started at run_im.
[11:27] <Wizard> excognac: Ugh.. That doesn't tell much. How big is that file?
[11:28] <excognac> Wizard: 4.4Mb scanned texts with some handwriting on them.
[11:30] <Wizard> I was talking about .xsession-errors :D
[11:30] <Wizard> BTW, what exactly did you mean by "can't open"?
[11:32] <excognac> du -s -h .xsession-errors 4,0K    .xsession-errors
[11:34] <excognac> Wizard: that Okular thinks for half an hour without doing anything. 12.04 opens them superfast, no trouble. [raging skipped here why 12.04 has no support for newer processors/graphic cards as she is]
[11:35] <Wizard> Hmm, that's strange and prbably a bug even!
[11:36] <Wizard> However, if it doesn't spit anything to .xsession-errors, I belive strace is one of the ways of knowing what is it doing.
[11:48] <excognac> Wizard: ok, learning now strace and working paralelly so i 'll send output soon
[11:58] <Wizard> excognac: And you think than I'll be able to analize it in few minutes? :P
[12:06] <excognac> Wizard: no, it looks like it will highly exceed my skills. I still wish to skip raging why lts is lts when it has no support at all for newer hardware and i'm forced to use this 13.10. withing a week i made one bug report. (i think i made alltogether 5 in the past 3 years)
[12:07] <ikonia> excognac: why do you think LTS has no support for newer hardware ?
[12:08] <excognac> ikonia: seriously you ask this? we worked hard together for a week.
[12:08] <ikonia> yes, I do think this
[12:08] <ikonia> excognac: I've still not stopped, I'm still trying to understand how the onboard chip on your cpu is actually referenced by xorg, I believe that is the key
[12:09] <ikonia> I think the later xorg build seems to manage detection better, but thats only the theory at this time
[12:09] <ikonia> excognac: also you could use the 13.10 kernel on the LTS release to prove this, as the kernel provides the hardware support, and if using the later kernel doesn't change anything, that suggests the hardware support is not the key, but the xorg component
[12:10] <Wizard> Well.. xorg *is* the hardware support. ;)
[12:10] <Wizard> And excognac is right about that LTS and hardware support.
[12:11] <ikonia> not really it's a seperate layer
[12:11] <excognac> ikonia:  i did try the latest kernel on 12.04, without any better result.
[12:11] <ikonia> excognac: ok, so you can have a reasonable idea where the problem is then, which backs up where I am looking at the moment
[12:14] <excognac> ikonia: i'm sorry but i really don't as I'm a user not a really a developper. I have 0 IT/programmer education, I understand very little about how OS works on hardware. btw after the first few boots i hade one or multiply kblankscrn.kss with 13.10
[12:15] <excognac> sorry for the typos
[12:15] <ikonia> excognac: fully get where you are coming from - just hang with it, we'll get a solution and then document it for others
[12:16] <excognac> ikonia: ?
[12:21] <excognac> ikonia: as far as i remember you adviced against installing software. i think i've tried to cooperate maximally, i really don't see any reason for being rude with me.
[12:22] <ikonia> ?? I'm not being rude to you
[12:22] <ikonia> I just said hang in there - it's not done yet, we'll find a solution and then we can document it for others.
[12:23] <excognac> ok, sorry i missunderstood it.
[12:23] <ikonia> no problem, I appreciate it's frustrating, but working with the onchip cards like this is new to me also
[12:24] <excognac> ikonia: shall i try to install some VM software to test 12.04 running under 13.10?
[12:24] <ikonia> excognac: I don't see how that would make any difference or provide any use as a test
[12:25] <ct529> hi everybody, having quite a few problems with btrfs .... any chance to switch a large filesystem from btrfs back to ext4?
[12:26] <excognac> ikonia: well, i have to work on this machine now, i can't really reinstall it again for testing.
[12:27] <ikonia> ok, you need to get it to a situation you can work, that's got to be P1, however testing in a VM won't be useful, is it possible you could partition your hard disk to allow a second install of 12.04 to work the problem through on, or a usb disk ?
[12:30] <ct529> and, what is the best filesystem for large archives of small files (10MB to 30MB)?
[12:30] <excognac> ikonia: i think so i can do that, maybe later this week as now i need to use almost max. capacity of the hard disk. i can use anytime the live dvd of 12.04 too.
[12:31] <ikonia> excognac: that buys time for more research, as you've guessed, I'm not working 24x7 on this
[12:32] <excognac> ikonia: yeah sure, take your time, i'm patient on this. do you need my email address or anything?
[12:32] <ikonia> excognac: not really, just drop buy when you can
[12:32] <excognac> kk
[13:11] <yossarianuk> ok - odd one
[13:11] <yossarianuk> a friend at work has kubuntu 13.10 + nvidia (like myself)
[13:11] <yossarianuk> he tried using additional drivers to install 319.60
[13:12] <yossarianuk> it just stayed @ 0 %
[13:12] <yossarianuk> cancelled that
[13:12] <yossarianuk> did apt-get clean
[13:12] <yossarianuk> apt-get update
[13:12] <yossarianuk> then tried to download with apt-get -d install nvidia-319-updates
[13:13] <yossarianuk> it just keeps downloading the package
[13:13] <yossarianuk> over and over (and over, etc)
[13:13] <yossarianuk> forever
[13:14] <yossarianuk> why ?
[13:15] <yossarianuk> its only that package
[13:15] <yossarianuk> its only that package
[13:15] <yossarianuk> others install normally
[13:16] <yossarianuk> i.e the package downloads - gets to 100% then restarts downloading forever
[13:16] <yossarianuk> apt-cache show nvidia-319-updates |grep -i version
[13:16] <yossarianuk> shows
[13:16] <yossarianuk> 319.60-0ubuntu1
[13:16] <yossarianuk> any ideas ?
[13:17] <yossarianuk> (about to go for lunc...)
[13:17] <lordievader> yossarianuk: You could download it manually: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/restricted/n/nvidia-graphics-drivers-319-updates/
[13:23] <gsedej_work> Hi! Does someone has 1 minute to test keyboard shortcut issue I have? (browser tab switch with Alt + (number) )
[13:33] <ct529> what is the current version of the kernel? why do I see 3.11.7 here: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.11.7-saucy/
[13:36] <[Raiden]> ct529: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v3.12-saucy/
[13:49] <yossarianuk> lordievader: thanks
[13:49] <yossarianuk> what could be causing it though ?
[13:50] <yossarianuk> i.e is it an indication of an issue with his setup
[13:50] <yossarianuk> ?
[13:56] <gsedej_work> Can somebody test if firefox/chromium tab switching work for him? (using Alt+1, Alt+2, Alt+3, etc...)
[14:03] <lordievader> yossarianuk: Could be, to be honest I have no idea...
[14:05] <yossarianuk> shall I perhaps ask on kubuntu-devel?
[14:30] <excognac> gsedej_work: Alt+2 works then Alt+1 not in chrome for me
[14:31] <excognac> gsedej_work: Alt+3 and Alt+2 back and forth works, Alt+1 never
[14:31] <gsedej_work> ok, same at me
[14:31] <gsedej_work> can you check if you have some assigned shortcut? I dont have
[14:32] <excognac> same with firefox
[14:32] <gsedej_work> however, if you assign Alt+1 to (whatever) and then delet it, it starts working in firefox/chrome... untill you log-out
[14:34] <excognac> gsedej_work: lol where do i assign? in the browsers or sys settings?
[14:37] <gsedej_work> no no,  just make kde shortcut
[14:38] <gsedej_work> KDE -> System Settings -> Shortcuts ...
[14:40] <gsedej_work> e.g. make shortcut for "e-mail" "Alt+1", apply, remove that shortcut, apply, Alt+1 should work in browser now
[14:41] <gsedej_work> tipk
[14:41] <gsedej_work> ups
[14:54] <BluesKaj> 'Morning all
[15:53] <ct529> hi everybody ....
[15:53] <MangaKaDenza> hi
[15:54] <ct529> anyone who knows how to convert a btrfs partition into a ext4?
[15:54] <MangaKaDenza> gparted
[15:55] <ct529> MangaKaDenza: does it allow to convert or only to reformat?
[15:58] <genii> ct529: As far as I'm aware, the only filesystem which you can "convert" without reformatting is ext, and then only within the same type ( ext2/3/4)
[15:59] <genii> ct529: You don't have enough room some other place to copy the data currently on the btrfs so that it could be re-partioned and formatted as some other fs?
[16:05] <MangaKaDenza> genii, where are the plasma widgets
[16:05] <MangaKaDenza> I demand my plasma widgets
[16:06] <MangaKaDenza> but they arent in muon
[16:06] <genii> MangaKaDenza: Your widgets are gone or something?
[16:06] <MangaKaDenza> or in the get new widgets thing
[16:06] <MangaKaDenza> well no
[16:06] <MangaKaDenza> but the ones in the discover/get new widgets are
[16:06] <MangaKaDenza> I accidentally my steam clock
[16:07] <genii> !info plasma-widgets-workspace
[16:08] <MangaKaDenza> :3
[16:09] <MangaKaDenza> also... there's this game
[16:09] <MangaKaDenza> wakfu... which worked on my first/second installs...
[16:09] <MangaKaDenza> but now it keeps crashing
[16:09] <MangaKaDenza> its a java game...
[16:12] <Wizard> Oh my. What's the problem?
[16:14] <MangaKaDenza> it keeps saying that some thing isn't found
[16:15] <MangaKaDenza> but when I went in the folder and checked, it was there
[16:17] <lordievader> MangaKaDenza: What exactly isn't found?
[16:17] <MangaKaDenza> some... folder
[16:17] <MangaKaDenza> here... let me start it up
[16:17] <MangaKaDenza> also I still don't have the steam time plasmoid genii
[16:18] <Wizard> I don't know what's a steam time. If it comes about java game, we'll see. Paste the output.
[16:19] <MangaKaDenza> hrk... my network blocks their update servers...
[16:19] <MangaKaDenza> I'll paste at home
[16:19] <MangaKaDenza> *current network
[16:22] <MangaKaDenza> anyways...
[16:22] <MangaKaDenza> how do I change the startup splash screen?
[16:24] <MangaKaDenza> and genii I have the universe source enabled
[16:24] <genii> MangaKaDenza: My workplace is requiring me often today, so please understand that I am not ignoring you, etc, but just that my time for IRC today is not enough to properly assist with your issue just now.
[16:24] <lordievader> MangaKaDenza: Usefull to tackle one problem at a time ;)
[16:26] <MangaKaDenza> well I can't tackle the first until I get home :P
[16:27] <MangaKaDenza> this happened before too...
[16:27] <MangaKaDenza> after upgrading to saucy, all my widgets dissapeared from the software...
[16:27] <MangaKaDenza> oh now I get it
[16:27] <lordievader> MangaKaDenza: Anyhow splash themes are in /usr/share/kde4/apps/ksplash/Themes
[16:34] <MangaKaDenza> I added raring versions of multi, uni, and extra sources
[16:34] <MangaKaDenza> ...I hope that doesn't make it explode
[16:35] <lordievader> MangaKaDenza: You are running Saucy right?
[16:35] <MangaKaDenza> yes
[16:36] <lordievader> MangaKaDenza: If so, that is a bad thing to do.
[16:36] <MangaKaDenza> well I didn't replace it
[16:36] <lordievader> Disable them at once I would advice.
[16:37] <Wizard> MangaKaDenza: Man, you've borked your desktop already by juggling with PPAs, now you want to make your system unbootable?
[16:37] <MangaKaDenza> actually since kubu looks so much like windows...
[16:37] <MangaKaDenza> I'm not required to use the win2-7 ppa thing of random
[16:38] <MangaKaDenza> but... I have done the same for wakfu... with my first install
[16:39] <MangaKaDenza> and it worked then
[16:39] <MangaKaDenza> :P
[16:40] <lordievader> MangaKaDenza: For ppa's it might work. (Still not advised.) But adding the ubu repos of versions prior is a bad thing to do. Please follow our advice and revert this action.
[16:40] <genii> MangaKaDenza: I know I keep reiterating this, but again, in flashing red neon letters 20 feet high, etc: "USE AT OWN RISK, MAY BREAK SYSTEM" and etc. Also, your warranty is long voided now...
[16:40] <MangaKaDenza> I thought this didn't come with a warranty...
[16:41] <MangaKaDenza> also... just for future reference... how do I completely remove all ubuntu/kubuntu/gnu/whatever stuff, and just leave my windows partition?
[16:42] <genii> MangaKaDenza: It's a manner of speaking :) *buntu support channels are not required to help you if you're doing things with your system that you've been previously warned are dangerous and not supported, etc.
[16:42]  * Wizard nods.
[16:43] <MangaKaDenza> ahhhhhh
[16:44] <MangaKaDenza> hmph
[16:44] <genii> MangaKaDenza: Boot to your Windows CD and do the fixmbr thing, that removes GRUB. Then you can use gparted CD to remove all partitions which are not from your Windows and add them back into the space which your Windows currently occupies
[16:44] <MangaKaDenza> I'll revert it... since it did absolutely nothing for my problem...
[16:44] <MangaKaDenza> actually... let me reboot first
[16:44] <MangaKaDenza> genii, eh... windows CD?
[16:44] <MangaKaDenza> like... livecd?
[16:45] <MangaKaDenza> brb reboot
[16:45] <genii> MangaKaDenza: Like, the installation CD/DVD which you purchased from Microsoft or which came with your computer
[16:45] <genii> Hm.
[16:50] <MangaKaDenza> hmm... it didn't explode yet
[16:51] <MangaKaDenza> welp
[16:51] <MangaKaDenza> since the mass adding of ilegel sources didn't work, time to revert
[16:52] <MangaKaDenza> reverted
[16:55] <genii> MangaKaDenza: To answer your earlier question just before you left:
[16:55] <genii> MangaKaDenza: Like, the installation CD/DVD which you purchased from Microsoft or which came with your computer
[16:57] <genii> MangaKaDenza: If your system doesn't have those, it usually has a separate partition with the install files on it and at boot it has an option like "Press F11 (or some other F-key) to Restore Windows"
[16:57] <MangaKaDenza> uh oh... this is a computer which I don't have the winCD for, or admin rights in windows...
[16:57] <MangaKaDenza> ._.
[16:59] <genii> "Contact your Systems Administrator"
[17:00] <MangaKaDenza> :)
[17:00] <MangaKaDenza> say... would it be appreciated if I put in the good word for kubuntu to my school district?
[17:01] <genii> MangaKaDenza: Probably :) There are actually many educational projects which are using Ubuntu or one of it's flavours
[17:35] <gassho> uh
[17:35] <gassho> can you get a Kubuntu theme that doesn't have so much of the bright light
[17:37] <gassho> i didnt see one when i googled ._.
[17:37] <BluesKaj> lots of dark themes available , system settings >desktop theme and window decoration . gassho
[17:38] <BluesKaj> in worspace appearance
[17:38] <BluesKaj> correction: workspace appearance
[17:39] <gassho> yeeeeeeeeeee tyvm ^3^
[17:39]  * gassho hugs BluesKaj
[17:39] <gassho> nice person thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuUUUUUUUuuuuuUUUUuuu
[17:39] <BluesKaj> ok, ok ...yw :)
[17:46] <ct529_> anyone who has tried compiling 3.12 on kubuntu?
[17:57] <BluesKaj> ct529_. what's the hurry ? :)
[17:58] <BluesKaj> ct529_.  ask in #kde or #kubuntu-devel
[17:58] <BluesKaj> and it's 4.12
[17:59] <ct529_> BluesKaj: nope, kernel 3.12!
[17:59] <BluesKaj> ct529_. unless you mean the kernel
[18:00] <BluesKaj> !kernel
[18:00] <ct529_> BluesKaj: yep
[18:03] <BluesKaj> ct529_. you can get the 3.12 by default if you're adventurous and upgrade to 14.04 via sed 'ing your sources.list and running sudo do-release-upgrade -d
[18:03] <BluesKaj> after updating and upgrading first , of course
[18:03] <ct529_> BluesKaj: where is the fun in that?
[18:04] <ct529_> BluesKaj: ;)
[18:04] <BluesKaj> I'm running 14.04 ..quite stable actually
[18:06] <BluesKaj> ct529_. check this out  http://news.softpedia.com/news/How-to-Install-Linux-Kerrnel-3-12-in-Ubuntu-13-10-397013.shtml
[18:09] <ct529_> BluesKaj: mmmm .... this is interesting. I am having serious difficulties in 13.10 with that heck of a btrfs
[18:10] <ct529_> BluesKaj: that was a colossal mistake
[18:11] <BluesKaj> never used btrfs , I stay away from exotic file systems
[18:11]  * BluesKaj nods
[18:11] <BluesKaj> what kinds of difficulties , ct529_?
[18:11] <ct529_> BluesKaj: and you are absolutely flipping right .... what a COLOSSAL mistake
[18:12] <ct529_> BluesKaj: going back to kernel, the link seems to suggest mainline, but mainline doesnot have the ubuntu patches, does it?
[18:13] <BluesKaj> dunno
[18:13] <BluesKaj> running a dev OS is adventurous enough for me :)
[18:13] <ct529_> BluesKaj: I had a power failure, and the btrfs partition was damaged (nothing terrible) .... now it tells the system there is no free space, even if in reality there is.
[18:14] <ct529_> BluesKaj: hence, no application which needs to write or read files works anymore .... oh joy!
[18:16] <BluesKaj> aha , so it didn't register the space on the partition
[18:16] <BluesKaj> looks like back to ext4 and a clean install is best , then compile the kernel . ct529_
[18:17] <ct529_> BluesKaj: yep, exactly what I am doing!
[18:17] <BluesKaj> ok good
[18:42] <ct529_> BluesKaj: it is taking forever
[18:44] <BluesKaj> ct529_.is the ubiquity progressbar not moving up %-wise ?
[18:45] <ct529_> BluesKaj: no, I am currently in recovery mode, tarring all the files for the backup.
[18:47] <BluesKaj> ok , then you must have a lot of files to compress
[18:50] <ct529_> BluesKaj: yep .... what is taking me the most are the virtual gues machines (virtualbox)
[18:55] <BluesKaj> right ct529_ , that will take some time for sure
[18:56] <ct529_> BluesKaj: I expctected that backup of virtualbox machines wouldhave taken much less ....  I need to do some sort of optimisation space wise.
[18:57] <BluesKaj> I tried VB , but windows eats too much cpu on this old pc , so i put it on a separate HDD
[18:59] <vadrao> Hi all, I am using Kubuntu 13.10. They have changed something with the network manager I guess. I have installed i3 windows manager and want to connect to my wifi. I do not know the command for the Network Manager. When I type "Networkmanager" in konsole, it says that I need to be root. When I use "sudo Networkmanager" then it says network manager is running. What are my options
[19:00] <ct529_> BluesKaj: flipping heck, there is one person on the virtualbox chatroom who is a right xxxx, I hope not everybody is so unhelpful! your idea sounds very good. I may do something similar, as soon as I can get this blessed backup.
[19:01] <ct529_> vadrao: why don't you use one of the gui?
[19:02] <BluesKaj> ct529_. if you have an old HDD hanging around say 40G or larger then use that
[19:02] <vadrao> ct529_: exactly, I am looking for KDE based GUI, but I have problem like I have described above
[19:03] <vadrao> ct529_: I meant I have problem with the default KDE network manager as described above
[19:03] <ct529_> vadrao: unfortunately I do not know i3 ....
[19:03] <ct529_> BluesKaj: I'll do that!
[19:04] <vadrao> ct529_: What is the command to invoke the default KDE network manager GUI now?
[19:04] <BluesKaj> vadrao. right click on the desktop > add widgets, type network in the search , network manager should show, the double click on it to add it to the panel
[19:05] <BluesKaj> the=then
[19:06] <vadrao> BluesKaj: I would like to have a command for that, as I would like to invoke them in i3  window manager.
[19:07] <ct529_> vadrao: unfortunately, Icannot do any test, the machine is clogged with backups
[19:07] <BluesKaj> vadrao. , 13 window managers , where?
[19:08] <vadrao> BluesKaj:  Its a tiling window manager http://i3wm.org/
[19:08] <BluesKaj> vadrao. sudo dbus-launch network-manager
[19:08] <vadrao> BluesKaj: it gives an error "Couldn't exec network-manager: No such file or directory"
[19:10] <vadrao> BluesKaj: when I type "sudo dbus-launch NetworkManager", it says "NetworkManager is already running (pid 728)"
[19:10] <BluesKaj> vadrao. network-management
[19:10] <BluesKaj> vadrao. don't you have a panel ?
[19:10] <ct529_> vadrao: try to use selg completion, it helps with little mistakes
[19:12] <vadrao> BluesKaj: i3 window manager is minimalist and I do not want any panel in there.
[19:12] <vadrao> ct529_: selg?
[19:13] <BluesKaj> fine , then i don't know how to help, sorry vadrao ...I'm sure others can tho
[19:13] <vadrao> BluesKaj: also, by default i3 does not have any panel.
[19:13] <vadrao> BluesKaj: No problem. Thanks for trying thogh
[19:14] <ct529_> vadrao: self ....
[19:15] <vadrao> ct529_: I am using fish. It helps me with small mistakes
[19:15] <ct529_> fish?
[19:15] <vadrao> The problem with me is not mistakes I type in terminal
[19:15] <ct529_> vadrao: because it is good for your memory?
[19:15] <vadrao> I do not know how to invoke the default KDE network manager in i3
[19:16] <ct529_> vadrao: this is what I mean, bash self completion allows you to write the correct names for the executables
[19:16] <vadrao> ct529_: hahaha :). I meant http://fishshell.com/
[19:16] <ct529_> vadrao: in the konsole
[19:17] <ct529_> vadrao: oic .... I am sure it has self completion!
[19:17] <ct529_> :)
[19:17] <vadrao> ct529_: Yes, it has
[19:18] <BluesKaj> vadrao. do you have special connections , perhaps you could set them up in /etc/network/interfaces and bypass network manager altogether ...I can help with that if you wish
[19:18] <vadrao> BluesKaj: yes please
[19:18] <vadrao> I would like to know how to do that
[19:20] <BluesKaj> here is a tutorial that shows how  vadrao http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/setting-up-an-network-interfaces-file/
[19:20] <vadrao> As of now, my /etc/network/interfaces is like this http://pastebin.com/EKY9zTMd
[19:21] <BluesKaj> vadrao. that tutoriial is bit dated , but I can help with etc/resolv.conf , once you get to that part
[19:21] <ct529_> vadrao: sorry, silly question .... are you trying to connect with wireless or wired?
[19:22] <BluesKaj> vadrao. yes that's the standard setting for eth0
[19:22] <vadrao> ct529_: I want to my wireless.
[19:22] <BluesKaj> looks wired from here
[19:22] <vadrao> I want to connect* to my wireless
[19:23] <ct529_> vadrao: that was the reason for teh question .... did you check that you have wpa_supplicant installed and running?
[19:23] <BluesKaj> wifi in the interfaces file is complicated and I have very little knowledge with that
[19:24] <BluesKaj> wifi without NM is beyond me
[19:25] <vadrao> ct529_: Yes, I have wifi_supplicant installed on my machine
[19:25] <vadrao> sorry wpa_supplicant
[19:26] <ct529_> vadrao: BluesKaj: ok .... is it running as well? ps -ef | grep -i wpa
[19:26] <vadrao> Oh yes, it is rnning as well
[19:27] <ct529_> mmmm .... I am going to ask you a silly question .... is the wireless switched on??
[19:28] <ct529_> vadrao: on the computer I mean, not the router.
[19:28] <vadrao> ct529_: Now, I am connected to my wireless and i am on KDE. I have connectivity. But when I logout of KDE and log into i3 wm, then I loose my connectivity. Hence, I was looking for a command to invoke NM in i3
[19:29] <ct529_> vadrao: unfortunately, I cannot test from here .... :(
[19:30] <vadrao> ct529_: No problem. Thanks for trying
[19:30] <vadrao> I will try and figure it out
[19:30] <ct529_> vadrao: but the network manager relays on the wpa supplicant.
[19:30] <ct529_> vadrao: can you run ifconfig in a terminal in i3?
[19:31] <vadrao> ct529_: Yes, thats a good piece of information I had. I will try and play with that and find a solution.
[19:31] <BluesKaj> depends on his wifi chip it might run in NM if he can get that to work in l3
[19:31] <ct529_> vadrao: ok, sorry I am running a whole backup of more than 350Gb it is taking all the afternoon.
[19:32] <BluesKaj> vadrao.your wifi chip that is :)
[19:32] <ct529_> BluesKaj: yes, but he should be able to simply do it using ifconfig, it wpa_supplicant is properly configured.
[19:33] <BluesKaj> have you research l3 with internet connectivity , vadrao
[19:33] <vadrao> ct529_: Do you want me to look for particular information in ifconfig
[19:34] <vadrao> BluesKaj: I did research some. I was trying to connect to wifi from the command line
[19:34] <ct529_> BluesKaj: to run the wifi from command line, I normally do wpa_supplicant -i wlan0 -c wpa_SSSI.conf
[19:34] <ct529_> BluesKaj: vadrao of course, you first have to configure the wpa_SSSI.conf using wpa_passphrase
[19:35] <vadrao> But, "dhclient wlan0" command simpl hangs
[19:35] <ct529_> vadrao: did you run wpa_supplicant from the command line?
[19:35] <BluesKaj> vadrao. if you used virtual desktops with l3 then wifi shouldn't be  a factor , if you can get it run without l3 first
[19:37] <vadrao> ct529_:  BluesKaj I was trying this http://www.ghacks.net/2009/04/14/connect-to-a-wireless-network-via-command-line/
[19:37] <vadrao> I did not use wpa_supplicant from the command line
[19:39] <BluesKaj> vadrao. so you have cli access in l3 ?
[19:39] <vadrao> BluesKaj: I have CLI access and GUI access like any other window manager
[19:41] <vadrao> GUI access from the CLI. So, I usually type command in a terminal window and the GUI opens up. Since I do not have connectivity, I could not use it much
[19:43] <BluesKaj> then why no panel , with access to network manager? ...sacrificing the panel for minimal install doesn't save much resources IMO
[19:45] <vadrao> BluesKaj: Well, as soon as login it does not give me any panel. Its just plain and empty. I will research some more on the panel with a network manager and try
[21:45] <Wizard> o/
[23:50] <netrunner_> hello everybody
[23:51] <netrunner_> is this german or english channel?
[23:54] <genii> netrunner_: English. The German channel is in #kubuntu-de
[23:55] <genii> Hm.
[23:56] <netrunner_> hello, can anybody support me?
[23:57] <genii> netrunner_: To answer your previous question... this is the English channel. The German channel is in #kubuntu-de


[00:00] <popey> BED
[00:02] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/pics/pano2.jpg
[08:20]  * neuro is trying a reinstall of 12.10 after upgrading to parallels 8
[08:20] <neuro> it didn't like the parallels 7 drivers :P
[08:33] <neuro> ze post install triggers, zey take FOREVAH ...
[08:34] <neuro> mornin aquarius, popey
[08:34] <popey> yo
[08:34] <popey> neuro, you went to school where they filmed gregorys girl?
[08:34] <neuro> aye
[08:34] <popey> neat
[08:34] <popey> loved that film
[08:34] <neuro> 1986-1992
[08:34] <popey> mmmm clare grogan
[08:34] <neuro> i remember them filming though
[08:35] <neuro> my dad's red lada riva can be glimpsed in the background at one point
[08:35] <neuro> and the chip shop they go to was our regular
[08:35] <neuro> and i was a paperboy in the newsagents inside the little shopping centre beside the chippy
[08:36] <neuro> and when gregory is in goals, you can see my nana's bungalow at the end of the row behind the goals (the one with the open back door)
[08:36] <neuro> although i'm not sure she had moved in by 1980
[08:37] <neuro> that film wound me up though
[08:37] <neuro> they went to classes on the wrong floors
[08:37] <neuro> they went into an underpass on one side of cumbernauld and came out the other end a good couple of miles away
[08:38] <neuro> ah the fun of having a film made in your town
[08:38] <neuro> and, indeed, your school
[08:38] <neuro> i still think of it as some kind of weird oddity that no-one knows about
[08:39] <neuro> then someone like yourself says "i love it!"
[08:39] <neuro> reality disconnect
[08:39] <neuro> "Installation is complete" ... it's driver time
[08:41] <neuro> or not
[08:44] <neuro> ugh, "Rubbish Bin"
[08:45] <neuro> ugh, Amazon lens
[08:45] <neuro> ugh, dash
[08:45] <popey> heh
[08:45] <neuro> #include <tiredoldarguments.c>
[08:45] <neuro> .c?
[08:45]  * neuro slaps himself in the face
[08:47] <neuro> look like aq is having virgin media fun
[08:47] <neuro> aquarius: having fun? :)
[08:48] <aquarius> neuro, I'm home now
[08:48] <aquarius> so, no.
[08:48] <neuro> ha
[08:48] <neuro> where was ya?
[08:52] <neuro> "Congratulations!" let's wait and see if it works before we all go back slapping each other, eh Parallels?
[08:53] <neuro> well, whaddya know
[08:55] <neuro_ubuntu> boink
[08:55] <neuro_ubuntu> ok, why do app icons get slammed in the dash after i install them
[08:57] <neuro_ubuntu> lol ubuntu your drunk
[08:59] <neuro> it really pains me to say that i don't like this
[08:59] <AlanBell> that would be the launcher
[09:00] <AlanBell> which is a mix of stuff that is running and stuff that isn't running (but not all your stuff that isn't running)
[09:00] <neuro> and the distinction is unclear
[09:01] <neuro> and the concertina effect is terrible
[09:02] <AlanBell> there are pips next to the icons which indicate whether it is running and count the number of windows it has, in the numerology of diskworld trolls
[09:02] <AlanBell> one two lots many
[09:02] <AlanBell> s/diskworld/discworld/
[09:03] <neuro> yeah like the os x dock
[09:03] <neuro> ok cool
[09:03] <AlanBell> apparently so
[09:03] <neuro> but the animation to show something has been clicked on and it's starting up isn't that great
[09:04] <neuro> especially when the icon takes up the bulk of the launcher space
[09:04] <AlanBell> there was a lot of "whut, that makes no sense at all!" a couple of years ago, but it made heaps of sense to the folk with macs on their desks
[09:04] <neuro> augh, that concertina thing kills me
[09:04] <neuro> oh i bet
[09:04] <neuro> and why mounted drives are there too i don't know
[09:04] <neuro> what if i connect to 20 mounts when i login
[09:04] <neuro> oh good, there are now 20 doobries on the launcher
[09:05] <neuro> it's like bloody windows preloaded crapware
[09:05] <AlanBell> depends how they are mounted, USB devices go there, ssh mounts in nautilus don't
[09:05] <neuro> i have to spend an age faffing with stuff to get rid of the crap
[09:06] <neuro> amazon thing, bye bye
[09:06] <neuro> ubuntu one music, bye bye
[09:06] <AlanBell> the launcher makes more sense when it is empty of pinned things
[09:07] <neuro> but it ships with pinned things
[09:07] <neuro> and yay, chromium just died on its arse
[09:08] <neuro> and the ubuntu one login thingy isn't looking too smart either
[09:08] <neuro> jings this is a mess :(
[09:09] <neuro> first time i've properly played with it
[09:09] <neuro> didn't ubuntu one use to have a notification indicator for the top right?
[09:12] <AlanBell> hmm?
[09:14] <popey> neuro, no, we dont have one
[09:14] <popey> used to some while back
[09:14] <popey> there are 3rd party ones too
[09:14] <neuro> hmm
[09:15] <davmor2> Morning all
[09:15] <neuro> eey oop
[09:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings
[09:15] <neuro> earthlings?
[09:15] <neuro> speak for yourself :)
[09:15] <davmor2> neuro: 'ow am ya
[09:16] <neuro> davmor2: still "enjoying" funemployment, otherwise fine :)
[09:16] <neuro> hows yerself?
[09:16] <Azelphur> whelp, seems like my connectivity issue is because of openreach, and there's absolutely nothing I can do about it
[09:16] <Azelphur> no internet for Azelphur till February
[09:17] <neuro> yay openreach
[09:17] <Azelphur> gotta love em
[09:17] <TheOpenSourcerer> Azelphur: Have you asked Plusnet - they deliver Infinity but under their own brand
[09:17] <AlanBell> Azelphur: yikes, so tethering only
[09:17] <davmor2> neuro: bummer on the funemployment, I'm good thanks
[09:17] <neuro> ta
[09:17] <AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: openreach have to come and install it though
[09:18] <Azelphur> TheOpenSourcerer: no, but I've asked BT and TalkTalk and they both say exactly the same date, because it's all under openreach
[09:18] <neuro> hang on a second
[09:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ak - OK
[09:18] <neuro> let me rant for a tick
[09:18] <Azelphur> yea, openreach are the hold up, so it'll be the same no matter which ISP I choose :<
[09:18] <neuro> INFINITY IS A BRAND TOO!!!!
[09:18] <neuro> rant over
[09:18] <Azelphur> talktalk seems the best bang for buck VDSL wise though
[09:18] <neuro> eww, really?
[09:18] <Azelphur> by quite a way, yea
[09:19]  * neuro uses sky and bt
[09:19] <neuro> sky do proper unlimited for 30 a month
[09:19] <neuro> bt infinity2 is unlimited, except for p2p, which they throttle during peak hours
[09:19] <Azelphur> talktalk do proper unlimited for 15 a month
[09:19] <neuro> but in saying that, i've seen hide nor hair of any throttling
[09:19] <neuro> o rly
[09:20] <Azelphur> yup
[09:20]  * neuro pokes
[09:20] <neuro> they have SUCH a bad reputation that it hurts though
[09:21] <popey> p2p is so last decade
[09:21] <popey> like flares, usenet made a come-back :)
[09:21] <arsen> AAISP if you want a good ISP. best one ive ever had by far.
[09:22] <SuperMatt> ooh, nice to see the new background has landed in raring :)
[09:22] <AlanBell> popey: p2p is a code word for bittorrent
[09:22]  * Azelphur counter pokes
[09:22] <Azelphur> all things added up to get 76mbit unlimited from talktalk is £31/mo
[09:22] <Azelphur> sky is like £45
[09:22] <Azelphur> I've been through a list of literally every FTTC provider so currently know all the pricing plans in and out, haha
[09:22] <arsen> they'll deal with openreach so you dont haev to.
[09:22] <popey> AlanBell, i know :) and usenet > bittorrent
[09:23] <AlanBell> is that nntp?
[09:23] <popey> ya
[09:23] <neuro> 31/mo?
[09:23]  * AlanBell used to be on alt.fan.pratchett all the time
[09:23] <Azelphur> arsen: yea but they are way too low bandwidth cap wise
[09:24] <neuro> i make it £36.45
[09:24] <Azelphur> neuro actually it seems like they are on the up, they are ranked 4 for customer support now
[09:24] <popey> the interesting thing is that the media companies go after end users for p2p based copyright violations, but go after the backend (not the users) for usenet violations
[09:24] <Azelphur> and I was just on the phone to a guy that seemed very knowledgeable and didn't treat me like an idiot as often happens
[09:25] <arsen> well you pay for usage, Azelphur - they arent ideal if you want to download  heavily 9-5, but outside of that it's not too bad. It's a business pricing model. Customer support is above and beyond though.
[09:25] <Azelphur> yea, I use a lot of bandwidth all the time
[09:26]  * TheOpenSourcerer still uses nntp - gmane.org FTW!
[09:27] <neuro> ah, talktalk use traffic management
[09:27] <neuro> i.e. ick
[09:27] <Azelphur> neuro: so does all ISPs
[09:27] <neuro> sky don't
[09:28] <Azelphur> openreach use traffic management
[09:28] <Azelphur> so sky does by default
[09:29] <neuro> o rly
[09:29] <Azelphur> yea
[09:29] <Azelphur> you'll find all ISPs prioritise time critical traffic over P2P and such
[09:29] <neuro> um
[09:29] <neuro> no
[09:30] <neuro> openreach aren't involved at the ip layer
[09:30] <JamesTai1> Good morning all! :)
[09:31]  * Azelphur shrugs
[09:32] <Azelphur> http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/09/bt-openreach-uk-warns-broadband-engineer-delays-to-last-for-months.html I guess this is the issue I'm having :(
[09:33] <neuro> Azelphur: it's a layer 2 hand off at the exchange
[09:34] <Azelphur> neuro: I've always thought all ISPs do a little shaping, maybe I'm wrong
[09:34] <neuro> you are, sorry :)
[09:34]  * Azelphur adorns his wrong hat
[09:34] <Azelphur> suppose we shall see if the shaping is worth the extra £14/mo :p
[09:34] <neuro> you're right that a lot of ISPs do
[09:34] <neuro> but some don't
[09:34] <neuro> Sky is the biggest that does
[09:34] <neuro> n't
[09:34] <neuro> :P
[09:35] <Azelphur> lol
[09:35] <neuro> they invested heavily in backhaul after they bought easynet
[09:35] <neuro> so they have network to spare
[09:37] <neuro> whereas talktalk is a mishmash of their own network, tiscali/aol's and pipex's.
[09:39] <neuro> arsen mentions AAISP as well, they are good (and RevK is a boss at hassling BT about faults), but their packages can be a bit over complex
[09:44] <Azelphur> yea too expensive for someone like me that can clock a terabyte in a month
[09:51] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:52] <neuro> is it?
[09:52] <neuro> IS IT?
[09:52] <davmor2> neuro: it is now I have coffeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
[09:52] <neuro> :)
[09:52] <neuro> i am cornholio
[09:53] <neuro> i need sugar for my latte
[09:53] <neuro> frrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiikakakakakaka
[09:53] <neuro> well hello there, google maps app for ios
[10:02] <bigcalm_laptop> Good morning peeps
[10:05] <SuperMatt> morning bigcalm_laptop
[10:33] <bigcalm_laptop> Looking for a firefox addon to let me take full page screenshots. There seems to be a few, any suggestions?
[10:34] <tsimpson> F11 + PrtScr
[10:35] <popey> http://www.webpagescreenshot.info/ i use that in chromium, dunno if they have a firefox version
[10:36] <bigcalm_laptop> Not too bothered about the web browser atm. Thanks popey, I'll give it a go
[10:39]  * bigcalm_laptop drums his fingers while it continues 'checking...' on install
[10:43] <bigcalm_laptop> davmor2 to the rescue in firefox: shift+f2 -> screenshot foo.png 0 true
[11:09] <bigcalm_laptop> Is it nap time yet?
[11:29] <AlanBell> bigcalm_laptop: http://www.paulhammond.org/webkit2png/
[11:34] <AlanBell> then again, is that mac only :(
[11:36] <SuperMatt> it's python though, it may work
[11:36] <SuperMatt> oh no, it imports some mac only stuff :(
[11:36] <AlanBell> !info wkhtmltopdf
[11:37] <AlanBell> that kind of works, but looks a bit rubbish, not doing all the css
[11:41] <gord> phantom works
[11:43] <AlanBell> !info phantomjs
[11:43] <AlanBell> how do I use it?
[11:46] <AlanBell> phantomjs /usr/share/doc/phantomjs/examples/rasterize.js http://slashdot.org slashdot.png
[11:46] <AlanBell> eog slashdot.png
[11:46]  * AlanBell likes that, always wanted to know how to do those :)
[11:50] <AlanBell> and the firefox shift+f2 thing works and is cool too
[12:45] <popey> \o/ http://www.speedtest.net/result/2369776557.png
[12:45] <popey> only noticed because steam was downloading at 8MB/s which I thought was odd
[12:46] <dutchie> popey putting the A in ADSL
[12:50] <Laney> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2369794618.png
[12:50] <Laney> (H)
[12:55] <popey> yowzer!
[12:55] <popey> nice
[13:00] <directhex> http://www.speedtest.net/result/2369812335.png
[13:09] <davidmarais> my account has been disabled on https://login.ubuntu.com after trying to login.
[13:09] <davidmarais> Who could help me to reset my details to log back in?
[13:10] <AlanBell> probably ask in #canonical-sysadmin or possibly #launchpad
[13:13] <davidmarais> AlanbBell: thanks will try that
[14:18] <Laney> directhex: what's the total monthly cost of bt infinity?
[14:19] <Laney> just got a "give us more money please" email from virgin
[14:20] <directhex> somewhere around the £40 mark - 26 quid for the internets plus about eleven quid for line rental. that includes some calls etc
[14:20] <Laney> hmm, about the same then
[14:21] <directhex> the way you get charged is a bit squiffy though, rather than various one-off charges like setup they bump your monthly bill up for a while
[14:21] <directhex> can't be more accurate; haven't filed away a bt bill for more than a year :)
[14:29] <directhex> oh, bt do FTTH now
[14:29] <directhex> as "bt infinity 160 Mb"
[14:29] <Laney> yeah
[14:29] <Laney> the checker doesn't say i can get that
[14:30] <andylockran> guys, can anyone offer me an opinion on this please?  http://www.andyloughran.co.uk:8080/mvc-external-api-usage
[14:32] <directhex> huh, my bt homehub has a gigglebit port, yet i've connected it to my giggglebit switch via 10/100. oops.
[14:44] <daubers> Laney: Plusnet where quoting me ~£40 as well
[14:46] <Laney> daubers: ta, since that's about the same as i'll be paying with VM I don't think I can be bothered to switch
[14:49] <daubers> I'm tempted to switch to A&A sometime next year. FTTH might sway me from that though. See how I feel in January
[15:25] <jimr_> anybody now why "wget --no-check-certificate https://m2mconnect.orange.co.uk/orange-soap/services/MessageServiceByCountry?wsdl" fails but I cant get to it via browser?
[15:26] <james_w> andylockran, what makes an API a datastore?
[15:27] <jimr_> nm added --secure-protocol=SSLv3 and it works
[15:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> quick python string question if I may:
[15:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> mystring = '[REF] NAME'
[15:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> REF and NAME could be any string. Bur REF, if present, will always be wrapped in []
[15:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> How can I split this string into it's two parts reliably?
[15:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> It's unlikely, but either string could legitimately contain [ &/or ] too.
[15:35] <AlanBell> import re
[15:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> regex. yes.
[15:35] <AlanBell> matches=re.search('\[.*\]',mystring)
[15:36] <AlanBell> matches.group(0) contains REF
[15:36] <AlanBell> [REF] rather
[15:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> group910 contains the rest or not?
[15:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> ooops group(1)
[15:37] <AlanBell> erm, no, one sec :)
[15:39] <AlanBell> matches=re.search('(\[.*\])(.*)',mystring)
[15:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh.
[15:40] <AlanBell> group(0) is the whole thing (1) is [REF] (2) is ' NAME'
[15:40] <AlanBell> matches=re.search('(\[.*\]) (.*)',mystring) < put a space in there to not match the space if it is consistently there
[15:41] <TheOpenSourcerer> Cool. Ta.
[15:42] <AlanBell> Internet Explorer is a pile of stinky
[15:42] <TheOpenSourcerer> It is that
[15:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> anything less than IE9 is rubbish
[15:43] <directhex> ie10 sucks less, according to the "ie10 sucks less" advertising campaign
[15:43] <AlanBell> yes, doesn't support .indexOf for arrays, and silently fails to append invalid HTML to DOM nodes
[15:44] <directhex> ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=lD9FAOPBiDk )
[15:44] <AlanBell> to be fair, I shouldn't have been appending invalid HTML, but it worked without raising an error in other browsers and failed without raising an error in IE
[15:45] <brianb> windows 8 is over hyped
[15:47] <bigcalm_laptop> !ping
[15:47] <brianb> why did Microsoft get rid of windows 8 chief designer
[15:50] <andylockran> ?
[16:31] <andylockran> python/django Question..
[16:31] <andylockran> see the example on the front page here; https://github.com/campaignmonitor/createsend-python
[16:31] <andylockran> what's the best way to make that list a ForeignKey of a model in Django? (clientName,ClientId) .etc
[16:32] <andylockran> I'm thinking dropping the django admin and just writing my own views; but there's gotta be a simple way, surely..
[20:59] <aydin> anyone know how to fix http://stackoverflow.com/questions/13867887/php-soap-client-https-cannot-connect? issue seems to be one with file_get_contents(). It is pretty much a clean unbuntu 12.10 install
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> aydin: what's the error?
[21:05] <MartijnVdS> Could not connect to host
[21:06]  * MartijnVdS avoids PHP whenever possible
[21:06] <aydin>  "Failed to enable crypto" - well that is from file_get_contents() in the php script
[21:06] <aydin> haha
[21:06] <aydin> ive asked on the php channel also but not getting a response
[21:07] <MartijnVdS> is the certificate valid for the host?
[21:07] <aydin> how do I check that?
[21:17] <aydin> MartijnVdS: apparently is signed by verisign
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> does the hostname match the one on the certificate?
[21:18] <MartijnVdS> is it not expired?
[21:22] <aydin> nope expires 09/11/13
[21:22] <aydin> hostname matches
[21:39] <AlanBell> hmm, geminid meteors tonight


[20:40] <balloons> rpadovani, just saw your note about calc. is this still an issue?
[20:41] <balloons> also veebers et la, I noticed autopilot lacks a nice project page. Is it true launchpad.net/autopilot is all there is? I moved the old wiki entry to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Autopilot
[20:43] <rpadovani> balloons, which note?
 [13:44:30] balloons, I think I understood why tests fail in calculator app. Seems sometimes when it creates the arm package it doesn't include all files, I was able to reproduce it locally.
[20:44] <balloons> I see it in my backlog, but don't remember it.. might have been a netsplit victim
[20:46] <veebers> balloons: correct, launchpad is currently the project page :-)
[20:46] <rpadovani> balloons, well, we have the problem under certain conditions, but I am not able yet to say which the root of the problem, I have to investigate more, so feel free to ignore it atm
[21:02] <balloons> rpadovani, ok :-)
[21:02] <balloons> veebers, ahh.. could probably stand to update the page
[21:02] <veebers> balloons: oh? What are your thoughts? just OTP atm
[21:11] <balloons> veebers, the description says simple: A tool for functional testing of GUI application. A better description, links to docs, etc makes more sense
[21:11] <veebers> balloons: sounds good, I'll look into it. CHeers


[14:15] <mistawright> hi guys i have ubuntu on my beaglebone black and need to know how to update the kernel. I have a zImage built and ready for the kernel and have copied the kernels lib/modules/ arleady
[15:54] <rooted-arm> testing testing , beaglebone black..
[15:54] <ogra_> failed
[15:54]  * rooted cries
[15:56] <ogra_> :)
[15:57] <rooted> for that smile i think ill donate to ubuntu-arm team as a support.
[15:57] <ogra_> good plan :)
[15:58] <rooted> yeah it is and am serious about it, you guys are making great job.
[15:59] <rooted> were are you from ?
[15:59] <ogra_> germany
[16:00]  * rooted feels afraid.
[16:00] <ogra_> oh ?
[16:00] <rooted> j/k
[16:00]  * ogra_ is pretty tame :)
[16:01] <rooted> Lol.
[16:01] <rooted> any new arm project ?
[16:04] <ogra_> ubuntu touch
[16:04]  * ogra_ moved on from boards to real devices (and insane workarounds to get driver support)
[16:05] <ogra_> and most of the other arm guys in here do real server boards nowadays
[16:05] <ogra_> like xgene etc
[16:06] <rooted-arm> thats great to hear, so after 1 year , al devices are going to be similar to ubuntu edge spesifics , the question is what going to be the plan for ubuntu touch after 2 year ?
[16:06] <rooted-arm> 1 year sorry
[16:06] <ogra_> heh, let us get there first :) for now we're still poking around to get a 100% phone system working
[16:07] <ogra_> once thats done and rock solid we'll work on desktop convergence
[16:07] <rooted-arm> am new in the boards field but i think is cubietruck is the powerful-est ive just knew so far
[16:07] <ogra_> well, you havent seen xgene then :)
[16:07] <rooted-arm> ill try to install ubuntu touch on my s5 , will try it
[16:07] <ogra_> thats 64bit though ... a bit unfair to compare it to a dev board
[16:08] <rooted-arm> ill search for xgene right away
[16:08] <ogra_> http://www.apm.com/products/data-center/x-gene-family/x-gene/
[16:09] <rooted-arm> i think arm team should use indigogo donation , will be the best donaitor
[16:12] <rooted-arm> so its a full board , or just a chip ?
[16:14] <ogra_> http://www.pcworld.com/article/2081160/appliedmicro-offers-first-development-kit-with-64bit-arm-server-chip.html
[16:14] <ogra_> there are full boards
[16:14] <ogra_> and racks ...
[16:15] <rooted-arm> nice..