[20:18] <raisin> and see what it gives
[20:19] <jvelasquez> omg.
[20:20] <jvelasquez> So I goto Ubuntu.com and find my official docs for my version, and I doesn't have crap for help, so I search for services, and it's searching for All Ads with tag service.
[20:20] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: what version of Ubuntu?
[20:20] <jvelasquez> I just want to disable a dang service.  I guess I have to apt-get --purge, just to disable it?
[20:20] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  14.04
[20:21] <Ben64> jvelasquez: and what service
[20:21] <quadeba> ifconfig eth0 down make my ethenet not to work...
[20:21] <jvelasquez> perhaps I need to get inside the initramfs ?
[20:21] <Ben64> ...
[20:21] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: ok, so upstart then.    "echo manual | sudo tee /etc/init/SERVICE.override"
[20:21] <jvelasquez> Ben64,  the Display Manager, lightdm
[20:22] <Ben64> neat
[20:22] <raisin> quadeba it's ok now try to connect to the acces point
[20:22] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  Could you help me find the documentation first?
[20:22] <raisin> eth0 = ethernet link
[20:22] <raisin> wlan0 = wireless link
[20:22] <quadeba> with cable is fine..the problem is wireless
[20:23] <raisin> i know
[20:23] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#disabling-a-job-from-automatically-starting
[20:23] <raisin> that's why i asked you to disable the physical link
[20:23] <Ben64> raisin: that doesn't really make sense though
[20:24] <raisin> it does sometimes having both wireless and physical link can mess up your connection
[20:24] <raisin> if the routes are incorrect
[20:25] <_adb> hello, i've got a vm running 16.04.02 in xen (dom0 also running 16.04.02). issuing `shutdown -h 0` fails, saying "Failed to connect to bus: No such file or directory".  any thoughts on how to resolve?
[20:25] <raisin> try to connect to your wireless access point now
[20:25] <gredjok> how do I find out the path to mediainfo?
[20:26] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  thank you.
[20:26] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: yw
[20:26] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  I don't understand why the community hides this
[20:26] <b-yeezi> gredjok, which mediainfo
[20:27] <Ben64> jvelasquez: it's not hidden
[20:27] <b-yeezi> gredjok, for me, it's located in /usr/bin
[20:27] <gredjok> b-yeezi, 0.7.91
[20:27] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: well, we use systemd now for starters. Secondly, it's not hidden. It's in the upstart documentation
[20:28] <jvelasquez> tgm4883, ok. Please show me the path to get to it, starting from ubuntu.com.
[20:28] <jvelasquez> cause I've been clicking around the upstart.ubuntu.com page and couldn't find it.
[20:29] <Ben64> jvelasquez: starting from google.com ... "ubuntu 14.04 disable service" -> click first result, done
[20:29] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: that seems like a silly requirement
[20:29] <jvelasquez> when It could be put right into the header menu across the top.
[20:29] <folf> Hi, does anyone know how to install git on ubuntu snappy core? I'm trying to see if I can push a git repo to it, running on a raspberry pi. There was a "gogs" snap at some point, but I can't find a git snap.
[20:29] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  It's always been the most important requirement of all projects!
[20:30] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  the link to the good docs are at the top!
[20:30] <jvelasquez> tgm4883, It's always among the first few things I check before choosing a tech
[20:30] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: I'm doubtful you'd find that on any distro's webpage
[20:30] <jvelasquez> debian.org !
[20:30] <jvelasquez> gnu.org!
[20:31] <jvelasquez> windriver.com!~
[20:31] <Ben64> i don't see "how to disable a service from starting on boot" on the top of debian.org
[20:31] <jvelasquez> Ben64, but you can get there by reading along thru the menus
[20:31] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: I'd be happy to discuss this with your further in #ubuntu-discuss as it's off topic for this channel
[20:31] <_adb> resolved my issue by installing dbus package. apparently xen-create-image doesn't include that.
[20:31] <jvelasquez> is it off topic?
[20:32] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: it's not support anymore
[20:34] <grantwu> Lori
[20:34] <grantwu> Oops
[20:35] <raisin> do you confirm that we can click on that link without being invaded by aliens ? http://upstart.ubuntu.com/cookbook/#disabling-a-job-from-automatically-starting
[20:37] <tgm4883> raisin: stay on topic please
[20:38] <raisin> ?
[20:39] <raisin> it's definitely ON topic since it's a link posted a few lines above with regards to velasquez issue
[20:39] <raisin> ...
[20:39] <oerheks> because of the http and not https?
[20:40] <raisin> no because of the uri
[20:41] <codenul> HALP!
[20:42] <codenul> is there a way to fix broken NO_PUBKEY errors?
[20:42] <raisin> no
[20:42] <Ben64> !details | codenul
[20:42] <codenul> fir software sources
[20:42] <blkadder> codenul Get the key?
[20:42] <codenul> when i run apt-get update
[20:43] <k1l> codenul: put the errors into paste.ubuntu.com and show the url here
[20:43] <oerheks> sudo apt-key update
[20:43] <oerheks> * with the option --keyring
[20:43] <codenul> https://paste.ubuntu.com/24422661/
[20:44] <codenul> same result oerheks
[20:44] <codenul> one sec, adding option
[20:45] <codenul> yeah same result
[20:45] <k1l> codenul: "sudo apt-key adv --recv-key --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com 5A9A06AEF9CB8DB0"
[20:45] <k1l> codenul: and after that with the second key: 14E4942973C62A1B
[20:46] <jvelasquez> tgm4883, ok. So, If I remove the service from the rc*.d scripts, but not override it,  in what order would the service be run?   And which scripts implement this behavior?
[20:46] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: in what order?
[20:47] <codenul> just hangs there with a carrot symbot
[20:47] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  ohh. unless upstart attempts to do it all at once?
[20:47] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: yes, in a way
[20:47] <k1l> codenul: ?
[20:48] <jvelasquez> tgm4883,  is upstart a set of scripts, or binaries?
[20:48] <codenul> command worked
[20:48] <codenul> thanks guys
[20:49] <grantwu> So I have a way to pretty reliably hard lock my Ubuntu system
[20:49] <codenul> been off and on with linux but truly making the jump now
[20:49] <tgm4883> jvelasquez: the jobs are scripts
[20:49] <grantwu> Which is namely, "plug this Ethernet adapter into another Ethernet adapter"
[20:50] <hanshenrik> in a clean 16.04 netinst, if you run `apt install --no-install-recommends lxde-core lxde-common;apt install lxdm xserver-xorg xserver-xorg-video-vmware lxterminal policykit-1;reboot`, the login screen says "debian 8" in the background :p
[20:51] <raisin> how can i save the information given in this forum ?
[20:51] <raisin> i mean i learned a lot of things today just by watching
[20:51] <k1l> !irclogs | raisin
[20:51] <hanshenrik> raisin, well, you could install leafpad and use that
[20:52] <raisin> thanks
[20:52] <raisin> hanshen my copy and paste doesn't work with commands
[20:53] <codenul> any tips before i take my Net+ tests?
[20:53] <k1l> raisin: you can enable your irc program to create own logfiles.
[20:53] <raisin> ok i ll do it
[20:53] <raisin> thanks
[20:54] <raisin> !irclogs
[20:54] <raisin> so this is the official ubuntu irc !!
[20:54] <raisin> that's cool
[20:55] <k1l> raisin: yes it is. look at the topic :)  "/topic"
[20:56] <raisin> nice , now i know where to come when i get stuck
[20:57] <raisin> have a good night
[21:04] <codenul> quiet night
[21:05] <Azero> I got really confused before remembering that different timezones exist.
[21:06] <codenul> haha
[21:06] <codenul> been really enjoying Linux the last couple week tbh
[21:06] <codenul> dont know why i didnt take the jump years ago
[21:13] <Azero> codenul, I've been enjoying it myself but I only made the switch last night. So I'm a complete noob when it comes to any of the more interesting things that can be done.
[21:13] <jotauver> EriC^^:  pls can you past here again what to do with the finals files of the checksum?  my pc stucked... sorry
[21:14] <k1l> !irclogs | jotauver
[21:14] <k1l> this channel is logged so you can look up what was said in here
[21:15] <jotauver> greaaattt
[21:15] <jotauver> thnks
[21:16] <imightbestupid12> should I upgrade to the new 17.04 distribution?
[21:17] <YankDownUnder> imightbestupid12: What are you running now?
[21:17] <Bashing-om> imightbestupid12: Updating to 17.04 is a purely personal choice .
[21:17] <imightbestupid12> 16.04
[21:17] <imightbestupid12> it's a server with stuff installed like php and nginx
[21:17]  * YankDownUnder sits happily on 16.04.2
[21:18] <codenul> Azero: honestly two nights ago i been the full switch
[21:18] <codenul> made*
[21:18] <codenul> but i have messed around over the years
[21:18] <dax> wouldn't recommend updating, 17.04 isn't LTS
[21:18] <Bashing-om> imightbestupid12: Servers "should" be on LTS releases !
[21:18] <imightbestupid12> why is should in quotes>
[21:19] <dax> probably for emphasis
[21:19] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: you asked whether you "should", he was quoting you
[21:19] <imightbestupid12> oh
[21:20] <imightbestupid12> If I'm running 16.10 that's bad right?
[21:20] <dax> definitely not ideal
[21:20] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: it is not advisable for a server
[21:20] <imightbestupid12> Why do VPS providers offer that for the servers?
[21:20] <imightbestupid12> Also, what's wrong with using this version for a server?
[21:21] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: that is their choice, doesn't make much sense because of the support timescale
[21:21] <imightbestupid12> What kind of support are we talking about?
[21:21] <k1l> imightbestupid12: the issue is, that you need to upgrade every 6 months, if you dont stay on LTS. and that is not what you want to do on a server.
[21:22] <imightbestupid12> Why would I need to upgrade every 6 months?
[21:22] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: normal realeased are supported for 9 months, lts releases for 5 years
[21:22] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: no support means no updates, no bugfixes
[21:22] <k1l> imightbestupid12: look at ubuntu.com/usn and think if you want to get that security updates or not.
[21:24] <k1l> imightbestupid12: non-LTS have 9 months support timeframe. so from july 2017 you wont get any security updates anymore. so you need to upgrade to 17.04
[21:24] <imightbestupid12> will i be able to upgrade to 17.04 LTS?
[21:24] <dax> 17.04 is not LTS
[21:24] <dax> as previously said
[21:24] <imightbestupid12> Will there be a 17.04 LTS?
[21:24] <dax> 16.04 is LTS, and 18.04 will be LTS.
[21:24] <imightbestupid12> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Releases
[21:25] <dax> no.
[21:25] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: lts gets released every 2 years
[21:25] <imightbestupid12> Oh
[21:25] <imightbestupid12> Is it possible for me to upgrade from 16.10 to 16.04 LTS?
[21:26] <tomreyn> that would be a downgrade
[21:26] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: that would be a downgrade, and the answer is no
[21:26] <tomreyn> downgrades are not supported
[21:26] <imightbestupid12> =*(
[21:26] <imightbestupid12> Why not?
[21:26] <imightbestupid12> I just spent so much time working with this server :(
[21:26]  * imightbestupid12 cries
[21:27] <auronandace> imightbestupid12: and you didn't invest much time considering how long it is supported for?
[21:27] <tomreyn> if you'r eon a non LTS release now you can upgrade it until you reach the next LTS release and use LTS from there on
[21:35] <marvin2> what does a red file ending with @ indicate?
[21:35] <marvin2> in terminal
[21:35] <marvin2> if I try to access it it says file does not exist, so maybe it is a broken link?
[21:37] <colly> hi, can anyone tell me if rc.local is run before any services?
[21:39] <Aprexer> /usr/bin/lwp-request warning Anything to be worried about?
[21:39] <LinuxN00b> what is the difference between ubuntu and linux?
[21:39] <YankDownUnder> Ubuntu *is* linux.
[21:40] <Aprexer> Linux is a kernal
[21:40] <Aprexer> Ubuntu is a distro
[21:40] <Aprexer> Klined lol
[21:42] <Akuma> Hello, I'm trying to get a USB to Ethernet adapter on 17.04LTS using the AX88179 chipset, I downloaded the drivers from the site and followed the readme instructions; doing lsusb shows the device, but for some reason I don't get an interface when doing ifconfig
[21:43] <Akuma> any ideas what I am doing wrong?
[21:44] <tomreyn> Akuma: 17.04LTS does not exist. there is Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, there withh be Ubuntu 18.04 LTS, there is Ubuntu 16.10 and 17.04 and there will be Ubuntu 17.10
[21:44] <dharma> hi guys
[21:44] <Akuma> when I do `dmesg |grep ASIX` I can see this: http://prntscr.com/eyw5iz
[21:44] <tomreyn> withh -> will
[21:44] <dharma> i need some help regarding disabling inbuilt wifi adapter
[21:45] <Akuma> tomreyn, https://www.ubuntu.com/download/server
[21:45] <Akuma> you are right, I downloaded 17.04
[21:45] <Akuma> server version
[21:45] <dharma> hello
[21:46] <tomreyn> Akuma: what does lsusb output for the AX88179 ?
[21:47] <marvin2> how do I actually clear terminal? clear just scrolls the text up out of the view
[21:47] <tomreyn> reset
[21:47] <tomreyn> marvin2: ^
[21:47] <marvin2> hilarious
[21:48] <tomreyn> it does more than just clearing it, but i think it's what you wanted
[21:49] <marvin2> tomreyn you are a true comedian
[21:49] <marvin2> got any more of them jokes
[21:50] <tomreyn> i'm german, i don't understand the concept of jokes. also, this is just a support channel, we'd need to move chatter to #ubuntu-offtopic
[21:51] <oerheks> 'clear' would be more appropriate ..
[21:52] <marvin2> oerheks clear just scrolls the text up, I want to delete it
[21:52] <grantwu> So, I've made some progress on my issue.
[21:52] <oerheks> clear bashhistory ..
[21:52] <grantwu> When I plug in my Ethernet adapters in a particular way, I panic the kernel
[21:53] <ChaiTRex> grantwu: Success!
[21:53] <grantwu> I've setup kdump, but it doesn't seem to have written anything
[21:54] <oerheks> history -c .. nice howto with a lot of examples http://sourcedigit.com/13507-clear-terminal-history-ubuntu/
[21:55] <marvin2> oerheks ok I am obviously not describing what I want well.. i want to clear the text in the terminal, not bash command history. you would think clear will do that, but it doesn't, all the text is still there
[21:55] <al2o3-cr> marvin2: clear then printf '\033[3J'
[21:56] <ChaiTRex> marvin2: Does `reset` work?
[21:56] <marvin2> ok printing '\033[3J' did it
[22:00] <marvin2> tomreyn heh, my apologies. I somehow read "reset" as "reboot". reset does the job as well
[22:02] <ChaiTRex> `reset` is quite nice if your terminal gets messed up somehow.
[22:04] <skinux> To remvoe a PPA, does it need to be this "sudo add-apt-repository --remove "https://deb.packager.io/gh/opf/openproject-ce xenial Release"
[22:04] <tomreyn> marvin2: np, I was wondering whether that might be the case. luckily there are man pages which can ease your mind about running commands you are not sure about.
[22:05] <katakaio> skinux: I find it easier to simply delete the PPA in question from /etc/apt/sources.list or sources.list.d
[22:05] <skinux> It's not in /etc/apt/sources.list, but maybe in sources.list.d
[22:06] <katakaio> Even easier then :)
[22:06] <mark76> MY GOD I HATE LINUX WEB BROWSERS
[22:06] <mark76> THEY ALL SUCK SUCK SUCK
[22:06] <grantwu> what does that mean
[22:06] <ikonia> no need for caps please mark76
[22:06] <grantwu> Are you saying the one true web browser is Microsoft Edge?
[22:07] <mark76> Just name me one web browser for this operating system that's not broken in some crucial way
[22:07] <YankDownUnder> Ah. (looks at Chrome and Firefox)...funny - seems to be more than fine here...must be the coffee.
[22:07] <grantwu> Chrome seems to work fine for me, yeah
[22:07] <ikonia> mark76: why dont you state the problem so people can help if they can
[22:07] <mark76> Firefox slows down to a crawl after only an hour's use
[22:08] <grantwu> Like, I have plenty of problems with Linux; the web browser selection is not one of them...
[22:08] <mark76> Chromium don't want none of yo fancy gtk
[22:08] <ikonia> mark76: thats not everyones experience
[22:08] <grantwu> You can enable the gtk theme
[22:08] <ikonia> mark76: whats the problem with chromium please ?
[22:09] <mark76> Even with the GTK theme enabled it doesn't really use the system GTK theme
[22:09] <ikonia> thats not really broken is it
[22:09] <mark76> It just makes an approximation
[22:09] <ikonia> thats just not the theme you really want
[22:09] <mark76> And that's why I don't use Chromium
[22:09] <Bashing-om> mark76: Ya got the ram to support the fearures you want in a browser ? Is your graphic's card laying the load on the CPU ?
[22:09] <grantwu> Okay, but that's a comparatively small problem
[22:10] <grantwu> Meanwhile over here I can cause the kernel to dereference a null pointer at 0x8 if I plug in these ethernet adapters a certain way
[22:10] <mark76> I have 4 GBs of RAM.  Don't tell me I need even more now?
[22:11] <mark76> I don't have a graphics card
[22:11] <ikonia> you're using the video from onboard the cpu ?
[22:11] <mark76> Yes
[22:11] <CodeMouse92__> (4GB is becoming the new "low end" of memory)
[22:11] <ikonia> 4gb is fine
[22:11] <ikonia> far fro  low end
[22:11] <mark76> They don't make graphics cards for my computer anymore
[22:11] <ikonia> from
[22:12] <jvelasquez> tgm4883, heh. did you see the link to the upstart cookbook in red right at the top of the Getting Started page?
[22:12] <CodeMouse92__> ikonia: I guess it depends on what you're doing. I find 4GB is usually too sluggish/
[22:12] <ikonia> mark76: what type of computer is this
[22:12] <mark76> Compaq SR5219UK?
[22:13] <ikonia> CodeMouse92__: then you are not doing normal desktop operations and 4gb is far from low end
[22:13] <nacc> mark76: sorry if you mentioned it already, what version of ubuntu?
[22:13] <mark76> I'm trying to edit a post on Facebook
[22:13] <ikonia> mark76: that says it comes with an athlon x2 cpu
[22:14] <ikonia> and it uses an onboard nvidia chipset video card
[22:14] <grantwu> I am inclined to blame Facebook here
[22:14] <grantwu> Although, to be fair, I have a desktop system with 4 GB of RAM and an Athlon x2 and it can still use Facebook fine
[22:14] <mark76> That's correct Ikonia
[22:14] <ikonia> that desktop is 10 years old
[22:14] <ikonia> mark76: ok - so thats quiet different than what you told us
[22:14] <ikonia> quiet ?? quite I mean
[22:15] <mark76> It's also over 10 years old and I can't afford anything newer :(
[22:15] <grantwu> My desktop is indeed 10 years and 4 months old
[22:15] <YankDownUnder> (Trying to race in the Indy 500 with a Ford Model-T)
[22:15] <mark76> So we all agree Facebook is a sucky RAM and CPU hog?
[22:15] <ikonia> mark76: not really
[22:16] <katakaio> mark76: there are a number of linux distros that are designed to work as smoothly as possible on lower-spec machines, including xubuntu and lubuntu
[22:16] <ikonia> mark76: is your machine actually running low on resources
[22:16] <grantwu> It is relative to what it should be; but it should still be usable.  Are you using recent Ubuntu/Firefox?
[22:16] <mark76> I'm actually using Xubuntu
[22:16] <mark76> I don't know ikonia
[22:16] <dropkick500> Yeah there's even distros designed for pcs that are optimized to run things like windows 98
[22:17] <ikonia> mark76: ok, so thats something to look into first, what resources your machine has free
[22:17] <YankDownUnder> Still be usable - yes - IF you're running a window manager/desktop manager that is NOT heavy on resources - like Unity or Gnome or Mate or Cinnamon or KDE...THEN it might run well...
[22:17] <mark76> I'm using 16:10 and whatever version of FF comes with it
[22:17] <oerheks> not a youtube racemonster card, GeForce 6150SE nForce 430
[22:18] <katakaio> mark76: excellent, xubuntu is a favorite of mine :) As much as I love Chromium, I always had better luck with Firefox on my xubuntu box. Restricting the cache size was the key to making Firefox happy in my case
[22:18] <mark76> I'm using 44% Ram and between 60 and 100% of my CPU
[22:19] <ikonia> mark76: so your cpu maxing out isn't great
[22:19] <mark76> Yeah, but I don't know what to do about it
[22:19] <katakaio> mark76: ikonia said that your rig has an onboard video card. Have you tried updating your graphics drivers or using the restricted drivers?
[22:20] <mark76> I'm using the Nvidia driver
[22:21] <katakaio> Well, I'd be curious to see what process is hogging the cpu with top or similar
[22:22] <mark76> Firefox is using 53%
[22:22] <mark76> ~53%
[22:22] <mark76> It fluctuates
[22:22] <tomreyn> about:performance
[22:22] <mark76> In firefox?
[22:23] <tomreyn> yes, should help you find out what is consuming the resources
[22:23] <tomreyn> those 53%
[22:23] <mark76> The stupid thing is I'm not even using any plugins
[22:23] <mark76> Well, not active ones
[22:25] <mark76> Would you mind a screenshot instead of me trying to explain what I got from about:performance?
[22:26] <katakaio> mark76: this is xubuntu 16.10 x64?
[22:26] <mark76> Yes it is katakaio
[22:27] <mark76> http://i.imgur.com/pTSr9sP.png
[22:28] <mark76> http://i.imgur.com/EY1LK4t.png
[22:29] <mark76> http://i.imgur.com/93p2rz7.png
[22:29] <tomreyn> mark76: no clues there. about:support may be of use then.
[22:31] <mark76> I've tried refreshing
[22:32] <YankDownUnder> mark76: Just wondering - have you tried turning off "compositing" in the XFce settings?
[22:32] <jvelasquez> ok.  So Upstart is great.  Now was somebody saying it's been deprecated?
[22:33] <nacc> jvelasquez: not just deprecated, it will be removed eventually
[22:33] <nacc> jvelasquez: and it's not the default in 16.04+ (technically 15.10+, but 15.10 is eol)
[22:34] <mark76> I'll try it, but I'm not sure how much difference it'll make
[22:34] <jvelasquez> nacc, ok. and what is replacing it?
[22:34] <YankDownUnder> mark76: "Compositiing" eats up resource...especially for graphics (GPU) related stuff...which FF uses...hmm...
[22:35] <mark76> Ah
[22:35] <Bashing-om> nacc: Off the top of your head ... is upstart dead now in 17.04 on a clean fresh install ?
[22:35] <nacc> Bashing-om: i think it's still used by the session manager
[22:35] <YankDownUnder> mark76: Triming down all unnecessary "graphics" toys/eye-candy will help.
[22:35] <nacc> Bashing-om: for login sessions
[22:35] <nacc> jvelasquez: systemd
[22:36] <nacc> jvelasquez: and has replaced it everywhere, essentially
[22:36] <jvelasquez> nacc,  ahh. that's what I've got, and I hate it.
[22:36] <nacc> jvelasquez: you can use a different distribution, but most are coalescing around systemd
[22:36] <Bashing-om> mark76: K. was watching the conversation, to try and remove upstart completely in 17.04 .
[22:37] <nacc> jvelasquez: you're also quite late to this particular discussion :)
[22:37] <nacc> Bashing-om: but i will say, on my 17.04 right now, no upstart running
[22:37] <nacc> Bashing-om: so we might be rid of it now
[22:37] <nacc> Bashing-om: yeah it's not installed on my system and it's fine
[22:37] <nacc> Bashing-om: so i'm guessing it will be removed in AA, definitely by 18.04
[22:38] <tomreyn> mark76: as previously hinted at, i'd suggest you also look into firefox caching settings, making the disk cache less thann 500 MB (maybe just 100 MB). if you have an old hard drive there then disk writes will considerably slow everything down.
[22:38] <mark76> Right
[22:39] <Bashing-om> nacc: We move on to bigger and better things , Hello systemd !
[22:39] <nacc> Bashing-om: indeed :)
[22:39] <oerheks> Artfull Aardvark :-D
[22:40] <mark76> Where do I go to set the cache level?
[22:41] <tomreyn> mark76:  about:preferences, Advanced, Network
[22:43] <mark76> Okay, I set the cache to 100mb
[22:44] <tomreyn> mark76: if yours is really old, consider getting a hard disk which is a couple years younger (if you can get it cheap or for free, can be 2nd hand). it'll still make a huge impact.
[22:45]  * tomreyn to bed
[22:46] <mark76> Aye, I should do that.  But what about all my data?
[22:50] <gredjok> what can I use to reduce size of a pdf, not affecting qua.ity?
[22:50] <gredjok> or affecting it not much. 70 pages are 270mb
[22:51] <sysict> can help how to setup rsync server for repository
[22:52] <kostkon> mark76, even better, get an SSD
[22:58] <genii> mark76: Get a larger drive than the one you have, then boot to livecd/usb, dd the old one to the new one, then gparted to adjust the old partition sizes to fill the new drive
[22:59] <viju> Hi
[23:00] <viju> How do I enable java in chrome/firefox? Using ubuntu 16.04
[23:00] <JonelethIrenicus> how can i test thunderbolt 3 speed
[23:01] <marvin2> my ubuntu running in VM flies after I moved it to a partition on ssd. I thought VM was the bottle neck but it clearly wasn't
[23:01] <m_> viju didn't Firefox remove support for Java?
[23:01] <hfp> Hi all, I was happily running 16.10 using the built-in backup system daily. Then I updated to 17.04 because I like adventure. Of course I didn't backup because I had daily built-in backups. A couple of days later, I find 17.04 very buggy and I'd like to go back to 16.10. Is there any way I can use my backups to either restore my settings on a fresh 16.10 install or roll back to 16.10 altogether? I thought
[23:01] <hfp> this system made full incremental backups but I now have a hunch it did not and my backups are pretty much useles... Any thoughts?
[23:01] <m_> viju https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/npapi-plugins?as=u&utm_source=inproduct
[23:03] <viju> m_: same happened with chrome?
[23:03] <m_> viju I believe so
[23:03] <viju> Why is it supported on windows browsers?
[23:04] <viju> Just for using one application I have to go to windows. That just defeats the purpose why java was used.
[23:04] <m_> and is it supported?? Which ones?
[23:05] <m_> Internet Explorer only?
[23:05] <viju> It's some cisco app webex believe
[23:05] <marvin2> how do I prevent alt+tab in ubuntu from grouping multiple instances of the same program together?
[23:05] <viju> m_: I can use it on certain chrome version, I dont remember version number
[23:06] <m_> I suppose this must be a pretty early version viju
[23:06] <m_> I don't think it's a good idea to run outdated versions of browsers
[23:06] <ChaiTRex> viju: You can try `javaws`.
[23:07] <nickmena> #list
[23:09] <backbox> hello
[23:09] <backbox> hey
[23:12] <Jordan_U> marvin2: This doesn't directly answer your question, but it might be useful to know that alt+` switches between windows within an ap.
[23:23] <viju> ChaiTRex: I don't know how to use it for opening webex session
[23:34] <selsperr> How do I check if I have the correct drivers already installed on ubuntu?
[23:34] <selsperr> graphics wise
[23:37] <Bashing-om> selsperr: Depemds on the card and what release you are on . lspci -nnk | grep -iA3 vga .
[23:37] <Bashing-om> depends*
[23:39] <selsperr> https://pastebin.com/CsL6Wq5p
[23:39] <thatlizdude> ok so today in the morning, i opened up my laptop and entered the CORRECT password, and it wouldn't let me in, it said it's the wrong password, so i had to restart for it to work again
[23:39] <thatlizdude> why would that happen? where can i find logs?
[23:39] <acovrig> IDK if it's an ubuntu or libvirt issue, but in ubutnu 16.04 my VMs' networking died and refuses to come back - bridges work, I can dhclient br1, but a VM attached to br1 doesn't get an IP...
[23:42] <thatlizdude> i really can't have this happen again, otherwise i would have to switch to different OS
[23:42] <Bashing-om> selsperr: " Radeon HD 4650 " so we are looking at the radeon driver . confirm ' sudo lshw -C display ; lsmod | grep radeon ' .
[23:44] <selsperr> https://pastebin.com/Aj2tK1Mc
[23:45] <selsperr> not sure what any of that means
[23:46] <Bashing-om> selsperr: You have what is and what is - is correct " configuration: driver=radeon // radeon  1515520  4 " .
[23:46] <selsperr> which bit am I meant to be looking at
[23:47] <selsperr> so all good on that front?
[23:48] <Bashing-om> selsperr: AMD cards . Presently there are only 3 . old cards take the radein driver, new carts take the andgpu driver, bleeding edge cards do amdgpu-pro .
[23:49] <thatlizdude> so i have found the log
[23:49] <thatlizdude> this is the log when the login failed even though i entered the right password: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/9df760be03752a54d7bca05b6adb3977
[23:49] <thatlizdude> please take a look, i need to know why it happened
[23:54] <thatlizdude> hello...?
[23:54] <andywork> who is there?
[23:56] <thatlizdude> i just need help with why it didn't take the password :(
[23:56] <warren_> Hi guys I'm trying to use a gpu externally on my laptop via a mpcie to pcie x1 adapter, it's all hooked up but I can't boot with power on the gpu. Anyone have any suggestions as to what steps I can take to get this working? Using a toshiba satellite 1505 running ubuntu mate 16.04


[01:42] <belkinsa> jrgifford, do you want to test chatb.org/#ubuntu-us-oh tomorrow?
[01:42] <jrgifford> belkinsa: sure
[01:43] <belkinsa> Thanks.  Anyone else here is more then welcome to join us also.
[01:47] <Unit193> Creeping on jrgifford, sounds fun.
[01:48] <jrgifford> Hah
[18:06] <gilbert> paultag: so discission on init-select is not going so well, and i'm not entirely sure why
[18:07] <paultag> yeah
[18:07] <paultag> I have no idea
[18:08] <gilbert> i don't really understand obstructing anything so simple, non-obtrusive, and solves so many problems
[18:09] <gilbert> there is an undercurrent of deferrence to the TC that i also do not understand
[18:09] <paultag> I think it's because everyone is tired of this
[18:09] <paultag> and any decision is better than continuing with all of it
[18:09] <gilbert> why?
[18:10] <paultag> because it's blocking positive work, and it's holding us all back pretty hard
[18:10] <paultag> I'm a strong systemd hardliner, but if upstart was made default, I'd stop fighting and just use it
[18:10] <paultag> I'd rather upstart than sysvinit
[18:10] <gilbert> that's the anti-freedom argument that keeps happening.  why suport everyone working on the thing they like?
[18:10] <gilbert> *why not*(
[18:11] <paultag> because then we have to write (and maintain) all sorts of init things in every daemon package
[18:11] <paultag> and it means we can't be sure of feature x
[18:11] <paultag> e.g. we'd make spec files and unit files and initd files and …
[18:11] <gilbert> i'm sure feature x checks can be written, and when so choose another supported init
[18:12] <gilbert> if there are people interested in doing all those things, why get in the way of their interests?
[18:12] <paultag> perhaps, but once we switch to {upstart,systemd}, the other becomes hard to support, since we'd not be forced to ship init scripts
[18:12] <paultag> I wouldn't
[18:12] <paultag> but there's no one who's interest it is to patch every dameon
[18:13] <paultag> plus no one will maintain logind
[18:13] <paultag> outside systemd as pid 1
[18:13] <paultag> which means a lot of things get broken
[18:13] <paultag> so the upstart or openrc or whatever folks would need to join the systemd team to maintain logind
[18:13] <paultag> which is a lot of work and code hacking
[18:13] <paultag> (or GNOME breaks)
[18:14] <gilbert> or gnome automagicially init-select's systemd
[18:14] <paultag> then why support something else? :)
[18:14] <gilbert> it could basically declare that it was incompatible with the other inits if the work didn't get done
[18:15] <gilbert> because people are interested in those other things, and freedom, i think, is the ultimate ideal
[18:15]  * paultag shrugs
[18:15] <paultag> we'll see where it lands
[18:15] <paultag> if it's upstart, systemd gets torn apart and used as parts
[18:15] <paultag> if it's systemd, all other initds get torn up
[18:16] <paultag> afaict
[18:17] <gilbert> or different parts of the system choose the init they prefer: xfce and kfreebsd lands get upstart, gnome and possible kde get systemd
[18:18] <gilbert> its about choice and freedom
[18:19] <gilbert> and i can't understand it any other way, but maybe i'm too much of an optimist
[18:22] <paultag> I think it's bascially breaks down to those who think Debian's about freedom, and others who think it's about making a stable OS with predictable configs to ensure stability
[18:22] <paultag> e.g. some heisenbug when you swap out your libc and also init to foo when running software x results in a segfault or something
[18:23] <gilbert> that's not really a heisenbug as long as reportbug reports your non-default init config
[18:24] <paultag> yeah, but which was it? :)
[18:24] <paultag> the eglibc, the init, or software x? :)
[18:24] <paultag> erm libc*
[18:24] <paultag> anyway
[18:24] <paultag> both views are valid
[18:24] <paultag> and that's likely where some of that comes from
[18:24] <gilbert> that's when the maintainer says, hey, try swapping these things to the defaults and let me know if the problem still exists
[18:25] <paultag> you see how it'd not be first-class
[18:25] <gilbert> yes, but there is tons of second-class stuff already in debian that gets worked on, figured out, and fixed
[18:25] <gilbert> like all of the non-popular architectures
[18:26] <paultag> that's different than a release arch
[18:26] <paultag> if we get a bug on mipsel, we'll still have to deal with it or it's rc-buggy
[18:26] <gilbert> no, i mean everything except i386/amd64
[18:26] <gilbert> but those really are second-class archs even though they are release archs
[18:26] <gilbert> they are not the thing that the majority of users use
[18:27] <paultag> meh
[18:27] <paultag> I can see it both ways
[18:27] <gilbert> i know...
[18:33] <thafreak> did I wander into #systemd-vs-upstart by accident? ;)
[18:33] <paultag> yep
[18:33] <paultag> well
[18:33] <paultag> not really
[18:33] <gilbert> not exactly
[18:33] <paultag> since gilbert and I are in alignment on philosiphy
[18:33] <paultag> but it's related
[18:33] <gilbert> you wandered into gilbert wants peaceful coexistence of all inits
[18:34] <paultag> yeah
[18:34] <paultag> which is great
[18:34] <gilbert> but perhaps overly idealistic
[18:34] <paultag> I like upstart's maintainers more, but I do like systemd more technically
[18:35] <thafreak> i don't like learning new things :)
[18:35] <thafreak> i'mma fork sysv-init and keep rocking it forever
[18:36] <paultag> do it!
[18:36] <paultag> openrc looks like a step up btw thafreak
[18:36] <paultag> it wraps sysvinit
[18:36] <gilbert> yea, its already called openrc
[18:36] <paultag> ye
[18:36] <gilbert> and debian may one day (fingers crossed) get packages for that
[18:36] <paultag> zigo really did great work
[18:36] <paultag> gilbert: it's in experimental
[18:36] <paultag> as of an hour or two ago
[18:37] <gilbert> paultag: oh, awesome!
[18:37] <paultag> NEW is a well oiled machine, gilbert
[18:37] <gilbert> nice :)
[18:37] <paultag> now that I have a finger again :>
[18:37] <gilbert> that's always useful ;)
[18:39] <Unit193> paultag: Yeah, saw that you processed that and really got it down.
[18:40] <paultag> ye
[18:40] <paultag> and another new member is keeping it low
[18:40] <paultag> I can do large scale processes at once, and he's good at incremental processing
[18:40] <paultag> so it's a really nice team :>
[18:40] <paultag> so I did ~200 over vacation
[18:40] <paultag>     paultag: {ACCEPT: 271, PROD: 11, REJECT: 24}
[18:40] <paultag> lifetime:
[18:40] <paultag>     paultag: {ACCEPT: 1170, PROD: 140, REJECT: 136}
[18:41] <Unit193> Need to reject more. ;)
[18:41] <paultag> yeah, only ~10%
[20:05] <belkinsa> jrgifford: ping
[23:40] <belkinsa> Woah, hey there, BobJonkman.


[00:23] <shtylman> cjwatson: after I add entries to ubiquity.templates ... is there anything else I need to do? can I provide the default us english text translations cause I can do those? and how...
[01:05] <joh> Hi, my live usb system fails to detect the cdrom correctly. For some reason, it thinks my main harddrive is my cdrom and mounts it under /cdrom
[01:14] <joh> Hi, my live usb system fails to detect the cdrom correctly. For some reason, it thinks my main harddrive is my cdrom and mounts it under /cdrom
[03:46] <mothdragon> Hi I'm trying to get the scanner portion of my new Brother MFC-290C Multifunction printer working in Ubuntu 9.04, I'm not too familiar with my way around Linux... But I have been able to get the printer portion working... Anyone Have Any Ideas? I tried looking online for XSANE drivers, and various other variations on search, but I din't find anything helpful...
[17:05] <superm1> evand, ping, i've gota couple concerns with the new usb creator upload
[17:05] <evand> superm1: pong
[17:05] <superm1> evand, so first off, the command to launch it changed from usb-creator to usb-creator-gtk, is that the new permanent name?
[17:07] <evand> superm1: If that's an issue for you, I suppose we could make usb-creator-gtk and usb-creator-kde conflict, then have them both provide /usr/bin/usb-creator.
[17:08] <superm1> evand, not an issue, I can easily adjust to look for any of the above, just wanted to see if there are other plans for changes
[17:09] <evand> the major plan I have for the gtk frontend is finishing the devicekit backend, as the hal code is fairly awful.
[17:09] <superm1> okay
[17:10] <superm1> okay. well that's related to the next thing that i noticed here
[17:10] <superm1> utility partitions, recovery partitions, and normal vfat windows partitions are showing up in the list of possible usb disks (even if they aren't connected to the PC via USB)
[17:10] <superm1> so when you get things sorted out to the right properties to be pulling from devicekit, make sure you are filtering to only usb
[17:13] <evand> superm1: indeed, devicekit greatly simplifies this
[17:13] <evand> will do
[17:17] <cr3> for some reason, when I install xubuntu or mythbuntu from the network, no graphical interface ever gets installed even though I preseed tasksel/first xubuntu-desktop: http://people.canonical.com/~cr3/syslog
[17:44] <superm1> cr3, there is something really weird wrong with at least mythbuntu tasks
[17:44] <superm1> there is an ugly hack in place to make livefs builds work right now
[17:44] <cr3> superm1: ah, that would explain why I've had reports of people at least being able to install mythbuntu
[17:45] <superm1> cr3, i'm really not sure how to fix the current problems though


[01:14] <AL-10011> Hello
[01:14] <holstein> o/
[01:14] <Patero-ng> hi broster
[01:15] <Patero-ng> I have a simple question
[01:15] <Patero-ng> hello
[01:15] <holstein> Patero-ng: just ask, friend
[01:15] <Patero-ng> I want to know if I can install ubuntu on a usb and make it persistent for files and programs
[01:16] <holstein> Patero-ng: sure
[01:16] <holstein> Patero-ng: if you actually install it onto a stick then, it *is* persisent, by design
[01:16] <Patero-ng> cause last time it didn't save the updates that took 1 hour to do when I reboot it was asking for the same updates
[01:16] <holstein> no need to make it persistent, like a live iso
[01:16] <Patero-ng> you sure? I don't think so
[01:16] <holstein> yyou can just literally do an install,instead of a persisten live iso
[01:16] <Patero-ng> so if I run it from live it will save data anyway
[01:17] <holstein> Patero-ng: im quite sure.. i have done it, and its a basic installation
[01:17] <Patero-ng> I installed flash player and after reboot it needed the same plugin
[01:18] <holstein> Patero-ng: friend, you had a live iso and you tried to implement persistence
[01:18] <Patero-ng> maybe you are wrung
[01:18] <Patero-ng> so installing it onto the same usb you mean
[01:18] <holstein> Patero-ng: i dont know how you did that, but, you can do that again, properly.. *or*, you can just simply do a normal installation to the USB stick
[01:18] <Patero-ng> like a deck of cars
[01:18] <holstein> ?
[01:18] <holstein> its like a normal install
[01:18] <Patero-ng> ok I'll try
[01:18] <Patero-ng> seems interesting
[01:19] <holstein> if you see something relating to a deck of cards, you'll need to elaborate before i can agree
[01:19] <Patero-ng> lol k no I was rumbling I do after I lower the stress of the question
[01:19] <holstein> what do i do? i take a stick, and i make installation media.. then i can *another* stick, and install to it
[01:19] <Patero-ng> oh another stick?
[01:19] <Patero-ng> I only have 1 usb drive
[01:20] <holstein> i end up with a stick, that is a normal installation.. which, is by design, persistent
[01:20] <holstein> Patero-ng: so, you can use *other* installation media
[01:20] <Patero-ng> so can I run the ubuntu installer from windows 7 and install it to a stick then
[01:20] <holstein> no
[01:20] <holstein> thats creating a live installer
[01:20] <holstein> thats *not* persistent, by design
[01:21] <Patero-ng> what other installation media
[01:21] <holstein> to make that persistent, takes extra steps, and you dont have a "normal" installation, at the end
[01:21] <Patero-ng> I only have 1 usb
[01:21] <holstein> Patero-ng: i read, and comprehend the amount of USB sticks you have.. what you can do is create a DVD or CD to install to that stick
[01:22] <holstein> or, buy another one
[01:22] <Patero-ng> yea that's it I'll buy another one
[01:22] <holstein> or, properly implement persitence..
[01:22] <Patero-ng> persistent as netbootin goes doesn't save programs
[01:22] <holstein> unetbootin *does* *not* create a persistent environment
[01:23] <holstein> so, if thats all you use, then, you will *not* have persistence
[01:24] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCD/Persistence is how you implement persistence with the live iso on the USB stick
[01:24] <holstein> or, you get another stick, and install to a second one, or create a DVD/CD, or another installation method..
[01:24] <Patero-ng> ok
[01:25] <Patero-ng> understood yes sir
[02:12] <TheC4mel> Hello all. Any JACK Audio connection junkies out there? I'm having the biggest headache. Jack audio connection kit was working like, 2 hours ago. I had it working perfectly. All I wanted to do is just change the sound latency. I changed the frames/period, but after doing that, the whole entire thing wouldn't work. I've altered a lot of settings, just in hopes that I'd get it working again. It won't do anything. In fact, I chan
[02:12] <TheC4mel> ged the name of my JACK settings preset, and I think that screwed it up even more. http://pastebin.com/rTrdDtwc     here's the error log.
[03:15] <Patero-ng> poor guy has a problem with his camel
[07:48] <acidplunk><EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:39] <ghosty_> bonjour
[12:49] <cfhowlett> !FR | ghosty_
[22:37] <Patero> thanks I'm about to install 10.04


[05:01] <Orbit> hey Lubuntu won't let me switch drivers, and im tryin to use OBS
[05:01] <holstein> Orbit: obs, from the obs ppa?
[05:01] <Orbit> and i read that my driver has problems with Lubuntu and every fix I see, i try and it just generates errors
[05:01] <Orbit> yeah
[05:02] <holstein> Orbit: your GPU drivers?
[05:02] <Orbit> Can't find a source to download version '2:14.201-0ubuntu2.1' of 'fglrx-updates:amd64
[05:02] <Orbit> i just go to "additional drivers"
[05:02] <holstein> Orbit: that will not be particular to lubuntu, or lxde.. that will be related to main ubuntu and the kernel
[05:02] <holstein> !amd
[05:02] <Orbit> oh
[05:02] <holstein> !ati
[05:02] <Orbit> sorry, i was in that room but they're busy
[05:03] <holstein> it can be, the hardware you have, if its amd, doesnt support linux well
[05:03] <holstein> and, they (amd) dont provide 3d support to you in linux
[05:03] <Orbit> honestly everything was working fine until today
[05:03] <holstein> Orbit: until you wanted to use obs? with 3d?
[05:03] <Orbit> no not 3d
[05:03] <holstein> obs requires 3d support
[05:03] <Orbit> it's just my stream was completely black, but sound worked
[05:04] <Orbit> i read someone else had the same problem and fixed it by using a different driver so I tried that and now OBS just crashes where as it worked before... now i can't select the original driver i had been using
[05:04] <holstein> Orbit: if someone else has suggested a fix, i would ask them, and make sure they have the *same* hardware
[05:05] <holstein> you can always specify the driver... you can look and see if the amd driver has created an xorg.conf you can remove..
[05:05] <Orbit> can i ask how i'd do that
[05:06] <Orbit> do you have any idea why it wouldn't let me use the driver i was originally using?  considering it was working i dont' see the problem
[05:06] <holstein> Orbit: i would look and see if one has been created..
[05:06] <Orbit> okay bear with me, where would i look for that?
[05:06] <holstein> !xorg
[05:10] <Orbit> sorry
[05:10] <Orbit> i didn't realize what you sent me would restart everything, i fyou said anything after the command i sent, I didn't get it
[05:11] <holstein> you'll have to reboot, the linux kernel, to change GPU drivers, like you are trying to do
[05:11] <Orbit> well i already rebooted just now
[05:12] <Orbit> it's still selecting the second driver, i need the first one to be selected the x.org X server one
[05:12] <holstein> sure.. go for it.. or, you can remove the driver you installed, in another package manager
[05:13] <Orbit> it just keeps switching back to the second one but obs is running now
[05:13] <holstein> http://askubuntu.com/questions/68306/how-do-i-remove-the-proprietary-ati-drivers for exmaple,
[05:13] <Orbit> maybe it is working right
[05:13] <Orbit> im always afraid to remove stuff :P, seems everytime I do I break something unintentionally
[05:13] <Orbit> but thank you
[05:13] <holstein> Orbit: you'l want to do this independent of OSB.. stop running/starting osb, get the driver you want.. make sure its stable.. then deal with obs
[05:14] <holstein> Orbit: you are asking how to remove stuff.. though
[05:14] <Orbit> right
[05:14] <Orbit> i just tested it to see if it worked since that's how this whole mess got started
[05:14] <holstein> you should be more afraid of adding stuff ;)
[05:14] <Orbit> fair enough
[05:14] <holstein> anuyways... if you want the driver gone, that UI you are using, that you are not able to use is just one way
[05:15] <Orbit> oh hey the stream works now too O_o
[05:15] <Orbit> i don't get it but... if it works, good deal
[05:15] <holstein> i dont think that was related..
[05:16] <Orbit> probably not
[05:16] <Orbit> btw what video card would you recommend?
[05:17] <holstein> well, ideally, i would recommend buying the hardware from a place that promises support for the operating system you want to use.. if thats a linux operating system, a linux reseller such as system76 would sell, and support the hardware for linux
[05:18] <Orbit> yeah i got a new video card last year from some repair shop cause mine wasn't working right
[05:19] <holstein> oh, i have as well.. i got one for $12, used.. dual head.. nvidia..
[05:19] <Orbit> nvidia is what I USED to have
[05:19] <holstein> but, i knew, going in, for 12 bucks, i would be able to give that away, to a windows user, and not lose much
[05:20] <holstein> otherwise, i try, and i save reciepts, and i make sure i can return.. becuase *i* have to be able to provide support for the device in linux
[05:21] <Orbit> right
[05:21] <Orbit> well to be fair, as I said it was working until today
[05:21] <holstein> ?
[05:21] <Orbit> but im going to try the instructions on this page, thanks
[05:22] <holstein> sure.. i have ati card right here, in this laptop
[05:22] <Orbit> okay this is different   "error processing package fglrx-updates (--purge):
[05:22] <Orbit>  package is in a very bad inconsistent state; you should
[05:22] <Orbit>  reinstall it before attempting a removal
[05:22] <Orbit> error processing package fglrx-updates (--purge):
[05:22] <Orbit>  package is in a very bad inconsistent state; you should
[05:22] <Orbit>  reinstall it before attempting a removal
[05:22] <holstein> its a compromise, for sure..
[05:22] <holstein> !paste
[05:23] <holstein> so, you dont have the driver installed properly, it seems.. but, iwould just leave well enough alone, Orbit , if obs is working as you want.. and the system is stable
[05:24] <Orbit> well the update manager was having a fit about the proprietary drivers
[05:24] <Orbit> okay i need to restart again i guess
[05:25] <holstein> i wouldnt
[05:25] <holstein> hmmm... oh well..
[05:29] <Orbit> okay so things seem to be working alright
[05:30] <Orbit> so you don't think I should try to fix the driver or anything?
[05:30] <holstein> Orbit: fix?
[05:30] <Orbit> well you said to just leave it alone since things were working
[05:31] <holstein> Orbit: i mean, ideally, AMD would "fix" it.. since, they dont, then, you, as i do with my current amd, will need to likely accept compromise
[05:31] <Orbit> oh okay
[05:31] <Orbit> i think thenext big ubuntu ill just do a fresh install
[05:31] <holstein> if something is wrong, i would fix it.. otherwise, its likely fine
[05:31] <Orbit> this isn't the first time this video card caused problems
[05:31] <Orbit> that was on an older ubuntu though
[05:32] <holstein> older kernel.. thats the key
[05:32] <holstein> a different kernel, and different drivers
[05:34] <Orbit> no this is causing problems, it says i can't install anything because of a software issue, i think ill have to go to the regular ubuntu chat
[09:48] <silver_m> anyone uses plank with compton together?
[10:00] <silver_m> I have a question about compton and plank
[10:00] <silver_m> I try to use them together
[10:00] <silver_m> and I want plank to have transparent background
[10:01] <silver_m> but although they run together compton and plank at startup, plank dont have transparent background
[10:21] <klu> what happens with ctrl+alt+del in lubuntu ? i use 14.04.2.
[10:22] <klu> looks like it restart.
[10:50] <masterjedi688> Morning/Afternoon
[10:50] <masterjedi688> I need a little help with a small problem I'm having
[10:51] <masterjedi688> Can anyone help?
[10:54] <masterjedi688> Hello?
[10:59] <Masterjedi688> Hello
[10:59] <Masterjedi688> Anyone here?
[13:14] <Newk> this is (still) quite usefull: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1422861&page=2&p=12046528#post12046528
[13:14] <Newk> why isnt something like this part of lubuntu config tools?
[13:16] <Newk> i just looked for this because i didnt liked the default F11 for fullscreen so changed it on the fly with this little tool to Super+F11
[13:18] <Newk> yes i know you can edit the .xml as text.. but one little typo and you're screwed
[13:23] <Newk> where is the Alt+LeftMouseButton combo configured? (for dragging windows)
[13:24] <holstein> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Keyboard suggests obkey
[13:24] <holstein> i always try the openbox config, and go from there..
[13:30] <Newk> in obconf under 'move&resize' or 'mouse' ?
[13:31] <holstein> ive never used it.. i'll personally just experiment with the config myself, or, i'll look for a distro with the functionality, and steal/borrow the config :)
[13:33] <Newk> :p
[13:35] <Newk> thanx for the insight holstein :)
[13:47] <Newk> i guess thats obkey's shortcoming.. no mouse bindings
[13:54] <Newk> openbox.org/wiki/Help:Bindings  << points to /etc/xdg/openbox/rc.xml for default openbox keys and that those can be override by ~/.config/openbox/rc.xml .. or maybe lubuntu-rc.xml too
[13:54] <Newk> gotta try that
[20:53] <derich> is it a bug that the indicator field in taskbar has a ugly different darker gray background color?
[20:54] <derich> or does somebody knows how to fix it?


[07:11] <mup> Bug #2034014 opened: Conflict error during w3 request <cdo-qa> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2034014>
[07:23] <mup> Bug #2034014 changed: Conflict error during w3 request <cdo-qa> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2034014>
[07:29] <mup> Bug #2034014 opened: Conflict error during w3 request <cdo-qa> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2034014>
[09:14] <mup> Bug #2031451 changed: maas hangs - 1 regiond spinning <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2031451>
[16:08] <mup> Bug #2034062 opened: Temporal schema creation in migration insufficient privilege <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/2034062>


[01:38] <asac> ok lucid build still snaps
[01:38] <asac> :/
[01:39] <asac> "pure virtual method called" still
[01:40] <asac> [6134:6134:3368164813:ERROR:/home/asac/chromium-browser-4.0.263.0~svn20091203r33682/build-tree/src/chrome/browser/renderer_host/render_sandbox_host_linux.cc(288)] Could not get pid
[01:40] <asac> saw that when running in gdm
[01:40] <asac> fta: ^
[01:42] <fta> asac, hm, try with --disable-sandbox
[01:43] <asac> kk
[01:45] <asac> i thnk i have probs with /dev
[01:45] <asac> let me first sort that out
[01:57] <asac> fta: can you run chromium in a chroot well?
[01:58] <fta> never tried
[01:58] <fta> not sure the sandbox will work
[01:59] <fta> it does its own chroot
[03:06] <shenki> awong: ffmpeg builds for arm as of a week or so ago. there was a small preprocessor issue that landed a few days ago, since then it builds from tot
[10:02] <hansdampf> i got a little problem with my beagle boar; i put a ubuntu 9.10 on my board and now i got the following problem: if i plug in a keyboard i get the following error: "hub 1-0:1.0 unable to enumerate USB device on port 2", if i plug in any other device, nothing happens
[10:02] <hansdampf> is this known... or has anybody experiences with this
[10:34] <lool> hansdampf: This is an issue with your kernel; we don't provide beagleboard/OMAP kernels, I would check with whoever provided your kernel
[11:44] <ogra_> nice, seems thumb2 already saves us 20MB in image size
[11:52] <amitk> ogra_: but does the image work? ;)
[11:53] <ogra_> amitk, imx51 boots (which is my main target for an A1 image) but seems to have issues to install on B3.0 (test on 2.5 is just running) ... dove has issues
[11:54] <amitk> niceeee
[11:54] <ogra_> yeah
[13:17] <lool> hey folks
[13:17] <lool> Just talked to a French Freescale guy
[13:17] <lool> who told me that thumb 2 is mostly slower than regular arm code, I was aware the diffence was so significant
[13:18] <lool> Let's hope that the space savings in cache make up for it
[13:18] <lool> and he also told me that thumb 2 was bugged on TO2
[13:18] <lool> So it might cause faultsevery 4 Kb or something he didn't have any detail on
[13:18] <lool> => we should check for erratas from FSL on thumb 2 issues -- it might break random programs
[13:18] <ogra> lool, dusing image install i cant see *any* difference in speed on my bababge with lucid
[13:18] <ogra> *during
[13:19] <ogra> i was actually expecting to see a speedup
[13:19] <ogra> but its as slow/fast as karmic was
[13:25] <armin76> yey
[13:26] <lool> ogra: Ok
[13:27] <ogra> lool, we have lucid babbage images, feel free to take a loo ;)
[13:27] <ogra> and a look as well :P
[13:28] <lool> I don't have any babbage 2.x
[13:28] <lool> only 1
[13:28] <ogra> ah, yeah, you sent them to jamie
[13:29] <lool> and to asac
[13:29] <lool> Well I left the 2.0 in london and think it was sent to asac
[13:29] <ogra> right
[13:29] <ogra> no, he has a 3.0
[13:29] <lool> Bah where is that 2.0 then I wonder
[13:29] <ogra> no idea
[13:30] <ogra> been sold so they can pay your bonus :)
[13:30] <armin76> mine!
[13:30] <ogra> (note tha past tense :) )
[13:30] <ogra> *the
[13:32] <lool> ogra: You've got a bonus?  I thought we were all sitting on our bonus this year due to the financial crisis!
[13:33] <asac> lool: ogra: i got the 2.0 and 3.0 at the same time
[13:34] <asac> which happened because i wasnt aware i was getting the 3.0 any time soon
[13:34] <asac> so i have two atm
[13:34] <asac> which is not really enough itlr
[13:34] <ogra> heh
[13:34] <asac> well. but i would give the 2.0 away if i can get a dove ... which currently is a deep whole in my hardware setup
[13:35] <asac> though i would like to have a dove and two bbg
[13:35] <asac> or two doves .. etc. if i do porting stuff like the chromium thing i cannot do anything else
[13:35] <lool> ogra: I was just kidding BTW
[13:35] <ogra> lool, indeed :)
[13:35] <lool> I hope you felt bad!  :)
[13:36] <ogra> well, *i* will get my bonus ... *you* will have to wait until asac sold your babbage :)
[13:36] <ogra> :P
[13:36] <asac> i am holiding back lool bonus until he releases his dove board ;)
[13:36] <lool> I'm holding back my babbage until asac's dove gets sold to ogra!
[13:36] <asac> haha
[13:37] <armin76> i'm getting all boards
[13:37] <ogra> lol
[13:37] <ogra> soo, how can we end up with 16M initrds now
[13:37] <lool> armin76: Does Gentoo ship/plans to ship pre-build ARM binaries?
[13:38] <lool> armin76: I wonder whether you build for hard float; I think that's not well supported with EABI
[13:38] <lool> *pre-built
[13:38] <armin76> lool: we do already, but we don't support them
[13:38] <armin76> http://tinderbox.dev.gentoo.org/default-linux/
[13:38] <armin76> nope, no hardfloat
[13:38] <lool> armin76: what's your optimization level for your public binaries?
[13:38] <lool> v5/6/7? thumb2?
[13:39] <lool> armv5tel-softfloat-linux-gnueabi
[13:39] <lool> Hmm that's old
[13:39] <lool> I guess you miss hardware for higher than v5
[13:39] <armin76> yep
[13:39] <armin76> why do you think i'm always saying that stuff i say? :)
[13:40] <lool> hehe
[13:42] <armin76> i got an efika mx now, though
[13:42] <lool> The one in a nice case?
[13:42]  * asac runs update-initramfs in verbose mode
[13:42] <armin76> yep, but its a lange board anyway
[13:42] <lool> armin76: Did you get a BSP / linux source code with it?
[13:43] <armin76> lool: yes
[13:44] <armin76> Linux efikamx 2.6.28-ER1-efikamx #4 PREEMPT Sat Nov 28 16:47:52 CST 2009 armv7l GNU/Linux
[13:44] <lool> armin76: Oh nice, so you can easily redistribute these patches right?
[13:44] <lool> asac, ogra: ^ we could at least start from these patches
[13:44] <lool> AFAIK we still have no public patch stack from pegatron
[13:45] <armin76> lool: you should ask neko @ #efika
[13:45] <lool> He came around here once
[13:45] <armin76> there's no patch, only patched source
[13:45] <lool> That's "ok"
[13:45] <lool> The only thing I need is a public source for it
[13:45] <lool> s/I/we
[13:46] <lool> Until now we only had non-publishable patches because of foo or bar
[13:46] <persia> Isn't that why we have diff?
[13:46] <asac> http://pastebin.com/f1b2e2ab5
[13:47] <persia> The Netwalker sources (another i.MX51) are also open and available to the public.
[13:47] <lool> persia: I mean a public location to retrive some form of source
[13:47] <lool> persia: Good luck splitting the imx51 stuff apart with diff though
[13:47] <persia> Well, true, but it's better than nothing, no?
[13:47] <armin76> lool: they aren't public though, they are included in the ssd
[13:48] <ogra> asac, looks dfine to me
[13:48] <asac> ogra: the produced initrd is better:
[13:48] <ogra> weird
[13:48] <asac> oh no
[13:48] <armin76> lool: i'll exchange them with a dove *g*
[13:48] <asac> sorry misread
[13:48] <asac> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1196802 2009-12-10 14:43 initrd.img-2.6.31-601-imx51
[13:49] <armin76> s/with/for
[13:49] <ogra> well
[13:49] <ogra> 11M is still better than 16
[13:49] <asac> ack
[13:49] <ogra> asac, i really think we need to compare the contents
[13:49] <lool> that's 1 MB?
[13:49] <lool> 1196802 => 1 196 802
[13:49] <asac> ogra: the contents i already posted
[13:49] <asac> http://pastebin.com/f98ce43d
[13:49] <asac> those are all the modules added
[13:50] <asac> hmm
[13:50] <ogra> i mean unpack both initrd files
[13:50] <ogra> and then run diff on a find output
[13:50] <asac> ogra: i have those unpacked
[13:50] <asac> ogra: thats what the paste is about
[13:50] <asac> just for the modules
[13:51] <ogra> oh, i was confused because it only shows the kernel dir
[13:51] <asac> yes. because the kernel modules dir has a different name
[13:51] <asac> so i ran inside
[13:52] <ogra> ah
[13:52] <ogra> lets compare the two configs
[13:52] <asac> ogra: http://pastebin.com/f7538b9e5
[13:53] <asac> thats the diff for all (ignore the modules)
[13:53] <asac> so for me it feels like this crypt* stuff is a good target
[13:54] <asac> thats all new at least
[13:54] <ogra> ah !
[13:55] <asac> usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/cryptopenct  usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/cryptpassdev
[13:55] <asac> usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/cryptopensc  usr/share/initramfs-tools/hooks/cryptroot
[13:55] <ogra> /lib/frimware ...
[13:55] <ogra> how big is that
[13:55] <asac> # This list needs to be kept in sync with the one defined in passdev.c
[13:55] <asac> for fs in ext3 ext2 vfat reiserfs xfs isofs udf; do manual_add_modules "$fs" > /dev/null 2>&1 || true
[13:55] <asac> done
[13:55] <asac> thats a bunch of new fs modules
[13:55] <asac> i guess
[13:55] <asac> let me check
[13:55] <ogra> ogra@osiris:/var/build/images$ du -hcs /media/bb4fdb28-11f1-4c72-a345-cc7006aa4898/lib/firmware/
[13:55] <ogra> 12M	/media/bb4fdb28-11f1-4c72-a345-cc7006aa4898/lib/firmware/
[13:56] <ogra> thats karmic
[13:56] <ogra> 2M difference in lucid
[13:56] <asac> 13700	lib/firmware/
[13:56] <asac> ogra: all the fs above are definitly one part
[13:57] <ogra> yeah, that adds up :/
[13:57] <ogra> though i dont get why the casper initrd isnt that big then
[13:57] <ogra> image building should have failed
[13:58] <ogra> the casper initrd.lz is 2.8M
[13:58] <asac> cryptroot also adds a bunch of get_device_modules
[13:58] <asac> yes thats odd
[13:58] <ogra> that might shrink by 1M due to lzma
[13:58] <asac> +./kernel/net/netfilter/xt_esp.ko
[13:58] <asac> but all that netfilter module stuff
[13:58] <asac> where got that added?
[13:58] <ogra> but then it would still be only 3.8M
[13:59] <ogra> kernel config
[13:59] <asac> hmm
[14:00] <dmart> Hi all— for those who didn't spot it, I raised a bug on squashfs: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/squashfs/+bug/494667
[14:00] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 494667 in squashfs "[armel] non-ISO-C misaligned pointer punning causes slowness and SIGILLs" [Undecided,New]
[14:00] <asac> ogra: but the "net" modules are explicitly listed in hook-functions
[14:01] <asac> so those are pulled in from somewhere else
[14:01] <asac> you say that hook-functions also looks somewhere else?
[14:01] <ogra> you mean the NIC drivers or netfilter ?
[14:01] <asac> ogra: no ... i mean all the netfilter/* modules
[14:01] <asac> they are now added
[14:01] <asac> http://pastebin.com/f98ce43d
[14:01] <asac> +./kernel/net/netfilter/xt_esp.ko
[14:01] <asac> ...
[14:02] <asac> also
[14:02] <asac> +./kernel/net/bridge
[14:02] <asac> ...
[14:02] <ogra> generally modules are added from hook-functions
[14:02] <asac> +./kernel/net/ipv4
[14:02] <asac> ...
[14:02] <dmart> Since we are stuck with the 2.6.28 kernel on the buildds for now, I think the quickest workaround is probably to avoid the mksquashfs crashes is  for __packed__ attributes to be added.  This isn't ideal, because it will result in slower execution, but it should avoid the SIGILLs.
[14:02] <ogra> but every hook script can put additional modules in
[14:02] <cooloney> ogra: i am going to build a BabbageImageFromScratch, but how to get the latest initrd.img?
[14:02] <asac> ogra: really look in this: http://pastebin.com/f98ce43d tats really a huge amount of new modules
[14:02] <asac> ogra: yes. but i dont see netfilter anywhere
[14:03] <asac> feels like it was previously individual files and now its just the full "net" dir
[14:03] <ogra> cooloney, use an old one, boot and run update-initramfs in the running system
[14:03] <cooloney> ogra: ok, thanks, downloading. heh
[14:03] <asac> dmart: thanks. let me read ;)
[14:03] <ogra> cooloney, though if you have anything as module that you need to get the rootfs up, that wont work indeed
[14:04] <persia> ogra: Why not, as long as the module is in the initramfs?
[14:04] <ogra> persia, because you likely have a version mistmatch
[14:05] <persia> ogra: Ah, using an old initramfs with a new kernel.  I thought you were suggesting to boot the old initramfs and old kernel, and then install the new kernel and run update-initramfs.
[14:06] <ogra> right, that works for sure
[14:06] <cooloney> ogra and persia, yeah, if that works, i can build a new disk with my new kernel installed right?
[14:06] <ogra> just drop the modules into /lib/modules and copy the kernel binary over vmlinuz
[14:06] <ogra> then run update-initramfs
[14:06] <ogra> that will just put them into fis
[14:07] <cooloney> ogra: ok, got it.
[14:07] <cooloney> ogra: where can i find the armel rootfs?
[14:07] <asac> dmart: hmm ok.
[14:07] <asac> how laborious is fixing the C code?
[14:07] <ogra> cooloney, you dont have one installed yet ?
[14:08] <cooloney> ogra: i dd the karmice imx51 release image to a SD card.
[14:08] <ogra> oh, you didnt install it ?
[14:08] <cooloney> ogra: so i guess this SD already has the rootfs, right?
[14:09] <cooloney> ogra: i installed it on a sata driver only,
[14:09] <ogra> it only has the livefs
[14:10] <cooloney> ogra: ok, do i need to reinstall i on a SD card or USB disk
[14:10] <ogra> i would recommend USB
[14:11] <cooloney> and that installed usb stick contains the rootfs, right?
[14:11] <persia> cooloney: And a copy of the kernel and the modules, etc.
[14:11] <persia> It's a full installed system (although there is an extra copy of the kernel and initramfs in some boot location)
[14:11] <cooloney> persia: yeah, understand.
[14:12] <cooloney> so how big usb stick is enough for that?
[14:12] <persia> Recommended minimum secondary storage for an Ubuntu installation is 4G.
[14:13] <persia> I know some people have managed it with far less, but there's no promises it works with less.
[14:14] <cooloney> persia and ogra ok, i got it. thanks a lot
[14:30] <asac> JamieBennett: what did we find so far for casper speed? anything we could fix easily?
[14:42] <dmart> asac: To me, it looked very laborious to convert the squashfs C code to do aligned access only, unless someone has a good idea about how to do it— it might require quite a lot of code to be rewritten, and the logic of how the output data is built up might have to change.  This doesn't feel feasible for now :(
[14:42] <asac> kk
[14:43] <asac> we should at least carry tha tupstream though
[14:43] <asac> dmart: why did this start to happen in lucid only? and only on that hardware?
[14:43] <dmart> ... hang on ...
[14:44] <dmart> Building with -marm might work.  The Jaunty kernel can't cope with all unaligned accesses in Thumb, but should cope if the userland code is ARM.
[14:45] <dmart> I've added that suggestion to the bug, and I'll give it a try.
[14:45] <persia> dmart: Would it just be building mksquashfs with -marm, or would the contents matter?
[14:45] <asac> ok. i think -marm feels acceptable. its not something that impacts user machines.
[14:45] <persia> asac: Doesn't it affect rootstock users?
[14:46] <dmart> persia: Do you mean the squashfs contents?  I think that shouldn't matter
[14:46] <asac> yes. but thats development tool ;)
[14:46] <asac> so ... developer machines ... or am missing something ?
[14:46] <persia> Well, most users *are* developers today :)
[14:46] <dmart> Once we have true Karmic/Lucid buildds, we can switch to -mthumb and it should all work.  So -marm would be a temporary measure for this package.
[14:53] <dmart> I just rebuild squashfs-tool with -marm and re-ran my test on one of the nettops, and it ran without SIGILL, so I think this may work as a solution.
[14:58] <asac> thanks dmart
[15:02] <asac> targetted bug ... assigned to dyfet to prepare the debdiff
[15:02]  * persia gets confused by http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/squashfs/news/20091202T163929Z.html
[15:03] <asac> hmm
[15:03] <persia> I found the issue.  cf. http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/squashfs-tools.html
[15:04] <persia> But since we have source/binary namespace issues, we run into the same sort of issues why `apt-get source linux` doesn't actually work.
[15:04] <asac> ack
[15:04] <asac> should get removed from our arch too then
[15:04] <persia> Looks like we need to chase that transition in Ubuntu for other reasons, and so would want to do the -marm stuff at the same time.
[15:04] <asac> hmm
[15:05] <asac> yeah
[15:05] <persia> Might need a poke, as it's source removal but not binary removal (and stuff like that tends to confuse busy archive admins)
[15:05] <asac> dyfet: also look at the package rename at that time maybe
[15:05] <ogra> linux ?
[15:05] <ogra> you cant remove linux from armel, it builds versatile
[15:06] <persia> ogra: apt-get source linux pulls the linux-meta source.  We now have the same issue in that apt-get source squashfs pulls the squashfs source and apt-get source squashfs-tools pulls the squashfs source and apt-get source won't pull the squashfs-tools source without being hit about the head.
[15:06] <ogra> ah
[15:06] <ogra> i missed the meta reference :)
[15:06] <dyfet> Okay...adding -marm itself for arm arch seemed simple enough for squashfs-tools...
[15:06] <dmart> apt-get --source-only source sounds like it should work to solve this, but it never works for me; I usually have to resort to wget
[15:06] <asac> guess there is no way to fire off ubiquity at install stage ?
[15:07] <asac> dyfet: thanks. check if we also want to get the new source from debian or something
[15:07] <persia> (where hitting about the head is the --only-source parameter)
[15:07] <ogra> asac, can you elaborate
[15:07] <asac> maybe two steps
[15:07] <persia> (except this fails for some reason as well :( )
[15:07] <dyfet> asac: is there already a bug for this?
[15:07] <asac> ogra: well. want to trial and error change hooks etc. to see what is adding all those modules
[15:07] <ogra> asac, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BabbageInstallVariants only ubiquity ?
[15:08] <asac> ogra: and update-initramfs in chroot yielded a 1.6M initrd only
[15:08] <ogra> ah, thats what you want
[15:08] <asac> ogra: i am in a live sesssion. ... wanted to rerun just the last step that triggers that
[15:08] <ogra> no, it needs to get to the end of the install sadly
[15:08] <ogra> 1.6M seems to small
[15:08] <asac> ogra: so what is different from just running update-initramfs in chroot?
[15:09] <ogra> good question
[15:09] <asac> which is where i had the verbose output
[15:09] <asac> ogra: how to best mount dev?
[15:09] <asac> seems like ubiquity doesnt mount /dev completely
[15:09] <asac> and the crypt hooks complain about /dev/null non-existing
[15:09] <ogra> oh
[15:09] <ogra> that sounds buggy
[15:09] <ogra> did you check /dev in your initramfs ?
[15:09] <ogra> *g*
[15:10] <asac> hmm. not inside it. i checked it in the /target mounted chroot
[15:10] <ogra> probably it copies any virtual fs
[15:10] <asac> and there only /dev/pts is mounted
[15:10] <ogra> yeah, for apt
[15:10] <ogra> it should mount dev and friends dynamiocally
[15:10] <asac> are you saying that the hooks are run even in the initramfs? (e.g. not in the /target) ?
[15:10] <ogra> no
[15:10] <asac> ok
[15:11] <persia> asac: Are you trying to update a live image and then reboot it?
[15:11] <asac> no. i am trying to run the update-initramfs that is run at end of ubiquity before the flashing without running the whole ubiquity
[15:12] <ogra> persia, he tries to find out how update-initramfs is run from ubiquity
[15:12] <ogra> asac, grep the ubioquity code is my best suggestion
[15:12] <asac> i see that its just run. but not sure what env it is run it ;)
[15:12] <ogra> i know i added stuff to mount certain dirs that were missing in karmic, so i know it mounts unmounts dynamically for each command that needs it
[15:13] <asac> also i wonder why there is no /dev/null in /target ;)
[15:13] <asac> ok had to run the install anyway. seems that failing flash busts the SD card somewhat
[15:13] <ogra>  /dev gets bind mounted dynamically
[15:13] <asac> so i had to re dd that
[15:13] <asac> ogra: the full /dev?
[15:13] <asac> odd ... i will check that
[15:14] <asac> only saw devpts mounted
[15:14] <asac> but if its always unmounted that might explain it
[15:14] <asac> will just do it then
[15:14] <ogra> check the code, it should have some function like "prepare_chroot()" or some such
[15:14] <asac> yep
[15:14] <ogra> that calls the mount commands dynamically right before update-initramfs grub-install and other commands that need it
[15:15] <ogra> might be named differently ... prepare_target or so ... i dont remember the actual name
[15:16] <asac> right it bind mounts /dev
[15:16] <asac>         if not os.path.exists(os.path.join(self.target, 'proc/cmdline')):
[15:16] <asac>             self.chrex('mount', '-t', 'proc', 'proc', '/proc')
[15:16] <asac>         if not os.path.exists(os.path.join(self.target, 'sys/devices')):
[15:16] <asac>             self.chrex('mount', '-t', 'sysfs', 'sysfs', '/sys')
[15:16] <asac>         misc.execute('mount', '--bind', '/dev', os.path.join(self.target, 'dev'))
[15:16] <asac> its called chroot_setup
[15:16] <ogra> ah, right
[15:17] <asac> ok great. odd that it it leaves devpts mounts behind though ;)
[15:17] <asac> will check in a few minutes when install failed
[15:17] <ogra> devpts is used by dpkg/apt for logging
[15:17] <ogra> they might be needed at that stage
[15:18] <persia> ogra: To console?
[15:18] <ogra> to nothing ... i dont even think they are actually used
[15:18] <ogra> but dpkg spills errors if it cant find them at the start of a package install
[15:18] <ogra> i think its just kept around to quieten that
[15:18]  * persia thought logs went to /var/log/* and to <stdout>
[15:19] <ogra> i think d-i and ubiquity only log to /var/log/* ... d-i just runs a tail -f on tty4
[15:19] <JamieBennett> asac: just got back, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/CasperSpeedup
[15:19] <asac> persia: what is universe-contributor about?
[15:20] <asac> my nm student wants to apply there, but i am not sure if he really should do that rather than motu
[15:21] <asac> JamieBennett: the more detailed analysis is the script content?
[15:21] <asac> like for 10adduser?
[15:21] <persia> asac: #ubuntu-motu or #ubuntu-devel are better places to ask that question, but it's a recognition of significant and sustained work within the Ubuntu development community.
[15:22] <ogra> asac, i think debconf-communicate generally has speed issues
[15:22] <persia> asac: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Ubuntu%20Contributing%20Developers
[15:22] <JamieBennett> asac: yeah, the timings are there for each slow part (i.e. a chroot or a locale generation e.t.c)
[15:23] <persia> (and feel free to have someone talk to me directly, either here or on oftc about that stuff)
[15:23] <JamieBennett> asac: next step is to look in more detail exactly what each of these code paths does and see if we can optimise them
[15:23] <asac> persia: but is that really something developers should apply for?
[15:23] <asac> i mean developers that already do development for ubuntu?
[15:23] <JamieBennett> asac: ues
[15:23] <asac> (after that i will go to some other channel ;))
[15:23] <persia> asac: Well, it depends on what they are doing.  Contributing Developers get @ubuntu.com email and authority to represent the Ubuntu project.
[15:24] <persia> There's no related specific upload rights.
[15:24] <persia> Some development teams require Ubuntu Membership prior to application, and since all Contributing Developers are also members, this can be one way to get it.
[15:25] <asac> persia: kk
[15:25] <asac> thx
[15:26] <persia> asac: By the way, I suspect you're a member of the team (likely through inheritance).
[15:26] <armin76> he slacks
[15:26]  * armin76 runs
[15:27] <asac> feels like i keep my old stuff for ever
[15:28] <asac> at least for the next 6 month i dont see any change :(
[15:28] <ogra> just stop doing it :)
[15:28] <ogra> ignorance ftw !
[15:28] <persia> Well, both of you are not likely to care, really, because this is all stuff that matters more to people who don't already have root on tens of millions of systems :)
[15:28] <asac> for NM i can stop and things will survive. for mozilla we all will get fired once the world notices that we are without security updates for year ;)
[15:29] <ogra> who cares, in one year we'll all use armel devices with chromium
[15:29] <asac> yeah. still distro reputation can go down quickly
[15:29]  * persia will probably stick to epiphany
[15:29] <asac> also mozilla sues us ;)
[15:30] <asac> in worst case making our brand damage reponsible for loosing their google money at some point ... that would be expensive ;)
[15:30] <ogra> heh, i would like to see them actually sueing anyone
[15:30] <ogra> did they ever enforce their policy at court ?
[15:30] <asac> trademark?
[15:30] <ogra> yep
[15:30] <asac> no. but they managed to get all distros not using it
[15:30] <asac> but three: ubuntu/suse/redhat
[15:31] <ogra> yep
[15:31] <asac> so i am sure they will be able to enforce it
[15:31] <persia> trademark law has enough precedence that as long as they complain about it properly they don't need to have taken it to court.
[15:31] <asac> right
[15:31] <persia> (well, perhaps not in some jurisdictions, but at least for most of the places they really care about)
[15:31] <asac> and since they are really running around forcing folks to stop doing that you cannot say they handled it to openly
[15:32]  * ogra goes to call sudo make sandwich ...
[15:32] <asac> enjoy
[15:44] <asac> dyfet: thanks for drafting the ooffice spec. in the work items i added a few options (from minimal to almost-perfect integration)
[15:44] <asac> do those make sense? can you add them to the implementation section too?
[15:47] <asac> hmm. noticed that bindmounting /dev is slightly different from the original /dev
[15:47] <asac> like /dev/shm has different attributes in /dev than in the bindmounted location
[15:47] <asac> odd
[15:47] <asac> bindmounting /dev/shm somewhat fixes this
[15:47] <ogra> shouldnt cause our issues though
[15:47] <dyfet> asac: I realized when reviewing specs that it got lost from when we did the original split....
[15:48] <asac> ogra: no. but it cauess issues for chromium when run in chroot
[15:48] <asac> it uses /dev/shm for sandboxing
[15:48] <ogra> ah
[15:48] <asac> dyfet: right. thanks a lot
[15:49] <asac> dyfet: to make it perfect putting one long sentence for the three integration variants i put into the work items would be great
[15:49] <asac> put that to implementation section
[15:49] <dyfet> ok
[15:49] <asac> problem is that its pretty hard to do the integration compared to mailto:
[15:49] <asac> thats why i want three potential solutions to be in there
[15:49] <dyfet> yea...I was thinking about that issue :)
[15:49] <asac> 1st. simple bookmark+ open browser integration
[15:49] <asac> 2nd. auto import when double clicking (but no back and forth synch)
[15:50] <asac> 3rd. gvfs gdocs mount for Documents folder
[15:50] <asac> i think those are the approaches i put into the work items ... having a sentence for each would be good
[15:54] <dyfet> asac: so your suggesting we turn the document into a browser bookmark entry?
[15:55] <asac> dyfet: no. 1st. approach is simple. it just allows you to open the borwser with gdocs if you click on the "office" launcher icon
[15:55] <asac> no import etc.
[15:55] <asac> also adding a bookmark to the browser might be ok
[15:56] <asac> 2nd. is about importing office documents if you want to open them
[15:56] <asac> using libgdata
[15:56] <asac> and then opening a browser with just gdocs opened and the right folder maybe or even file
[15:56] <asac> if we are really smart we could rename that file at that time and replace it with a link to it in gdocs
[15:56] <asac> but that can get out-of-sync
[15:56] <asac> so i am not sure
[15:57] <asac> rather would wnat to have 3. which would import it on first click and move it to the mounted Documents folder
[15:57] <asac> so starting there it would work to just open it in browser and also we wont get out of sync if you move files in gdocs
[16:01] <dyfet> yes, each has some ugly aspects...
[16:02] <dyfet> though a simple mime helper app could be written in python to do any of these things...
[18:02] <asac> dyfet: well. if you can think of a forth ... potential perfect option feel free to discuss that :)
[18:02] <asac> the gvfs mount in Documents feels for me like the best solution
[18:02] <dyfet> If I can I will
[18:02] <asac> almost perfect.
[18:02] <asac> when you click on a file outside of the moint you would get asked if you want to import it
[18:03] <asac> and then the file would be moved to some "backup" location
[18:03] <asac> so you usually just use the mounted location
[18:04] <asac> dyfet: but imo all close to perfect solutions are off what we can do for lucid (e.g. 3. needs a bunch of work on the gdocs backend for gvfs)
[18:04] <asac> but writing the ideas down makes sense still
[18:04] <dyfet> yes, there is always the option of deferring it, too, in this case
[18:05] <asac> dyfet: let me know when you wrote the 3 ideas down so i can just approve the spec for now ;)
[18:05] <asac> that would make it done imo
[18:05] <dyfet> I initially added it to the spec already, but I think I need to expand on the third one
[18:08] <asac> dyfet: just write one sentence for each outlining the implementation/integration approach
[18:08] <dyfet> thats what I did
[18:08] <asac> ok
[18:08]  * asac checks wiki again
[18:09] <asac> dyfet: maybe make bullet points out of the three approaches
[18:09] <dyfet> okay :)
[18:09] <asac> that improves visual recognizability in the spec
[18:09] <asac> dyfet: the third would also open the browser with the right location after import
[18:09] <asac> also if you click on the mounted documents the browser would be opened too of coures
[18:10] <asac> (or openoffice if user chooses to open with openoffice)
[18:11] <asac> cool. so what i will do is send a request to design team to make a design suggestion for the wizards ... i see three wizards atm: a) select preferred mail handler, b) select preferred office handler, c) import wizard (if we implemnt that)
[18:11] <asac> also we need icons like outlined in the work items
[18:11] <asac> for generic mail ... and office (with option to overlay webservice  branding based on users selection)
[18:34] <asac> ogra: so yeah. cryptroot adds 13.5m of modules
[18:34] <asac> basically all the drivers in the world
[18:34] <asac> now i need to find that package ;)
[18:34] <asac> dpkg -S cryptroot on lucid anyone?
[18:42] <asac> bug 495161 filed
[18:42] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 495161 in cryptsetup "initramfs cryptroot hook bloats armel initrd by adding >13M of compressed modules" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495161
[18:43]  * persia stops trying to install initramfs-tools on lucid to verify
[18:45] <asac> yeah ;)
[18:46] <persia> I only had another 27 minutes to wait for the download to complete :)
[18:46] <persia> (including dependencies, etc.)
[18:48] <asac> persia: heh. keep on going
[18:48] <asac> having lucid ready will be handy ;)
[18:49] <persia> I have lucids available for about half the architectures I use.  I should get to 75% this weekend, and probably 100% next week.
[18:49] <persia> It's just that I don't currently run any lucid live systems, so need to install the low-level stuff (rather than just forwarding X from a chroot).
[18:50] <persia> (again, I should have at least two running lucid environments by next week)
[19:38] <awong> asac: re the aac.c arm patch for chromium, hclam apparently has a fix open for it, and will be submitting it soon.  The -fPIC change should also land sometime today.  So, things should be good probably by later today or tomorrow.
[19:42] <asac> awong: great. thatnks for the update
[19:42] <asac> awong: so he will land more fixes than for ffmpeg?
[19:42] <awong> no prob. Thanks for bringing it up.
[19:43] <awong> fbarchard had the -fPIC change yestertday but it broke other parts of our build I think, so he had to revert.  hclam is working on various arm things (I actually don't know exactly what) and one of them is that compile fix.  I just asked him to try and submit that compile fix early.
[19:45] <awong> FYI, video performance on arm is probably going to be pretty dismal for chromium right now.  I saw some tests of the performance here, and it super slow/choppy.  There's actually some bugs in our rendering logic that doesn't handle super slow processers well for video and leads to exteremly bad behavior in the frame dropping code.  hclam was working on that last, but don't know his status exactly.
[20:58] <ogra> asac, you rock !
[21:01] <asac> awong: thx. first we need a working build though ;)
[21:16] <awong> asac: completely agree. :)
[21:45] <asac> hmm the installer is quite slow imo
[22:01] <asac> plars: so reformatting existing partitions seems to be buggy. crashes ubiquity. but deleting partition and creating works though
[22:07] <persia> Adjusting partitions on flash tends to do wonky things with the FTL anyway (assuming you're looking at issues installing to USB flash)
[22:13] <plars> plars: hmm, mine crashed even when repartitioning
[22:15] <persia> plars: I tend to have better luck with much abused USB flash doing an erase rather than a write every once in a while.  How this really happens depends on the firmware, but at least for the Elecom keys I prefer, dd if=/dev/zero of=${flash device} bs=${flash eraseblock size} seems to do the right thing.
[22:16] <persia> Then it needs to have a new partition table written from scratch, etc.
[22:37] <asac> plars: yes. reformatting is what makes it choke for me
[22:37] <asac> if i really add parition or something its ok
[22:37] <asac> just if i select previously used partition and set it to / or something
[22:43] <asac> hmm. bad issues ;)
[22:43] <asac> on reboot
[22:43] <plars> asac: were you able to get around the install failure by removing the hook from /target
[22:43] <asac> also usb errors about bad device descriptors
[22:43] <asac> plars: yes. after the "copying files ..." stage
[22:43] <asac> but before "flashing kernel"
[22:44] <asac> you need to remove the cryptroot stuff
[22:44] <asac> or actually comment out one line
[22:46] <plars> gotta reboot, brb
[22:53] <plars> asac: where would the line need to be commented from?
[22:55] <asac> plars: can you paste that file ;)
[22:55] <asac> i just lost it
[22:55] <asac> (and the image even)
[22:57] <asac> plars: are you good at launchpadlib writing ;)?
[22:58] <asac> (by coincident)
[22:59] <plars> asac: good? I wouldn't say so, I've done some basic things though
[22:59] <asac> ;)
[22:59] <plars> asac: if you have ideas for scripts, I'd love to work on them though
[22:59] <asac> for the relesae team report we basically need a script that gives info about lucid targetted bugs added/fixed/triaged in last week with armel tag i guess
[23:00] <asac> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[23:00] <asac> so that
[23:00] <asac> the RC bugs section basically ;)
[23:00] <asac> somehow automized
[23:02] <asac> not sure if one can easily query if something got closed/etc. in last week though
[23:02] <persia> I don't think that can be queried, but we can get a list e.g. daily or 6-hourly and then compare them periodically.
[23:02] <persia> Needs some client-side storage.
[23:03] <awong> asac: http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome?view=rev&revision=34297  Hopefully that fixes the compile issues
[23:03] <asac> rock on
[23:03] <asac> yeah client side storage is bad ;)
[23:04] <asac> but if thats the only way its better than having to look through all bugs ;)
[23:04] <persia> client-side storage doesn't need to be bad.  There are enough folk about with always-on servers.
[23:04] <asac> awong: great. so fPIC is still waiting for some issues?
[23:05] <persia> I'm not sure I really want to code it, but I certainly could host it if nobody else wished to do so.
[23:05] <asac> thanks persia
[23:05] <asac> so getting a weekly dump of targetted bugs with its state in a filterable/diffable form
[23:05] <asac> would be good i think
[23:06]  * persia wonders what "thanks" is for
[23:08] <asac> for the offer and for caring ;)
[23:08] <awong> asac: nope, that should be fixed too.  http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome?view=rev&revision=34284
[23:08] <persia> Oh, good.  Let me know if nobody else will write it, as it would be an excuse to learn lplib, but hosting is easy.
[23:09] <asac> awong: hmm. there is no PIC mentioned there
[23:10] <awong> asac: yeah, it's int he changelog, but not in the diff.  However, if you look at the ffmpeg.gyp file, it has -fPIC in the cflags section for ['target_arch=="arm"', {.
[23:10] <asac> great
[23:10] <asac> thanks!!
[23:10] <asac> we switched to 4am UTC for daily snapshots so i can copy that to builders for arm right away tomorrow morning
[23:11] <awong> no prob.  I didn't do the work. :)  Let me know if things still don't work for some reason.
[23:11] <asac> hmm. i had one patch for chromium i gave fta
[23:11] <asac> let me check
[23:11] <asac> its basically about brokenness for non armv7=0 builds
[23:11] <asac> ah right
[23:11] <asac> its skia.gyp
[23:12] <asac> the SSE source is not excluded if its not armv7=1
[23:12] <asac> and also the opts are not added
[23:12] <asac> http://paste.ubuntu.com/338225/
[23:13] <awong> Okay.  If fta has the patch, he can submit it for review and the skia guys can have a look.
[23:13] <asac> thats the new block in skia.gyp needed
[23:13] <asac> replacing it in skia.gyp
[23:13]  * asac should get a git tree of chromium i guess
[23:13] <asac> or svn checkout at least ;)
[23:13] <asac> fta: do you need anything from me for the skia.gyp changes?
[23:13] <awong> heh. seeming like it. :)  And we should get you into the authors file to clear all the hurdles.
[23:13] <asac> right.
[23:14] <asac> i will take that as an action ;)
[23:14] <asac> to sign contributor agreement etc.
[23:14] <asac> and setup svn
[23:15] <fta> i don't really have much time atm
[23:15] <asac> all fine ;)
[23:15] <fta> busy with work
[23:17] <asac> plars: what timezone are you in?
[23:21] <persia> ( UTC -6 )
[23:21] <asac> weather clock is sorted by name
[23:21] <asac> not UTC offset :/
[23:21] <asac> what is that? chicago?
[23:21] <persia> I use Morelia for that timezone.
[23:21] <asac> what is morelia
[23:21] <asac> is that in US?
[23:22] <awong> first search result says Mexico.
[23:22] <persia> Yep, that's it.
[23:23] <asac> the region selection in weather clock can be ... erm... improved ;)
[23:23] <asac> its like a zillion scrollable menu ;)
[23:23] <persia> I know.  That's part of why I try to pick odd city names.
[23:24] <asac> morelia is not in there :(
[23:24] <asac> hmm i have dallas
[23:24] <asac> thats enough ;)
[23:24] <persia> Hrm.  Dallas works.
[23:25] <asac> yeah ;)
[23:25] <awong> clearly the right solution woudl be to reduce it down to one choice.  That way the users can't be confused with having too many options.  And ofcourse, that one choice should be something htat's 30minutes off of UTC.
[23:25] <persia> awong: Why choose 30 minutes when 15 and 45 are available?
[23:26] <asac> i think we should just use the ubiquity timezo9n selector
[23:26] <asac> thats great thing
[23:26] <asac> though some cities could deserve a point ;)
[23:26] <asac> i clicked on berlin and got prague or something similar close
[23:27] <asac> timezone is the same though
[23:27] <persia> Except weather doesn't work.
[23:27] <persia> I was very annoyed last week because I couldn't pick a location near where I was, and so couldn't see the weather.
[23:27] <asac> ;)
[23:27] <asac> weather was too broken so i only use it for time now ;)
[23:27] <asac> the old weather thing worked at least
[23:28] <persia> So it's not 5 degrees, feels like 0.4 there?
[23:28] <asac> not sure if they moved to an "open" serive to get weather datra now ;)
[23:31] <awong> persia: are there actually timezones that are 15 and 45 mins off? I only knew of the 30-min ones...
[23:31] <persia> Yes.
[23:31]  * persia hunts one up
[23:32] <persia> http://www.worldtimezone.com/wtz-names/wtz-wct.html is one example
[23:32] <awong> oh fun.
[23:33] <awong> I'm so glad icu exists.
[23:33] <persia> ICU?
[23:34] <awong> http://site.icu-project.org/
[23:35] <persia> Oh, for the timezone calculations?
[23:35] <awong> yeah
[23:35] <persia> heh.
[23:36] <persia> Actually, I can't find any :15 timezones.  Only :00, :30, and :45.  Odd, that.
[23:38] <asac> is there a way to grab the pre-image livefs somewhere?
[23:40] <asac> what timezone is pacific e.g. what city?
[23:40] <persia> Santa Fe
[23:40] <persia> Or Portland
[23:40] <asac> its  not in there
[23:40] <asac> even tokio isnt
[23:40] <persia> Los Angeles?
[23:40] <asac> neither
[23:40] <asac> nor sf
[23:41] <asac> let me check portland
[23:41] <persia> Try Tokyo.  We don't spell it that way anymore.
[23:41] <asac> seattle neither
[23:41] <persia> Vancouver?
[23:41] <asac> persia: well i looked for Tok*
[23:41] <asac> nothing
[23:41] <persia> Mountain View?  Redmond?
[23:41] <persia> Sacramento?
[23:42] <asac> ha
[23:42] <asac> there is a "United states" submenu ;)
[23:42] <asac> with pacific
[23:42] <persia> I'm surprised Tokyo isn't there.  Japan used to have lots of timezones, and settled on Tokyo time (except for Okinawa) about 50 years ago.
[23:42] <persia> Aha!
[23:42] <asac> maybe there is a "japan" submenu
[23:42] <asac> ;)
[23:42] <asac> or asia
[23:42] <persia> Probably Asia/Tokyo
[23:42] <persia> (That's what LP calls my timezone)
[23:43] <asac> but given the length of the top level list thats ridiculous
[23:43] <persia> Indeed.
[23:43] <asac> antartica ;9
[23:43] <asac> is a submenu
[23:43] <asac> australia
[23:43] <asac> too
[23:43] <asac> but no asia ;)
[23:43] <asac> wow
[23:43] <persia> Australia deserves a submenu: there's something like 10 timezones.
[23:43] <asac> even chile and congo are submenus ;)
[23:43] <persia> (because some states do DST and others don't, and there's WCT, etc.)
[23:44] <persia> Chile gets interesting, just because there's something like a 3-hour gap in the middle of the timezones it spans.
[23:44] <asac> ok added taiwan
[23:44] <asac> thats as close as i get to japan ;)
[23:44] <persia> That's not my timezone.
[23:44] <persia> It's off by one.
[23:44] <asac> i know
[23:45] <persia> OK.
[23:45] <asac> what city do you have in weather applet?
[23:45] <persia> Sydney, Tokyo, Berlin, London, Boston, Morelia, Portland
[23:45] <asac> morelia isnt there for me
[23:45] <asac> tokyo neither :(
[23:45] <asac> did you set that by latitude?
[23:45] <persia> Nope, but I set it in Jaunty.
[23:45] <asac> err long...
[23:46]  * persia upgrades rather than reinstalling
[23:46] <asac> ok i give up
[23:46] <asac> enough time wsated scrolling an endless menu ;)
[23:46] <persia> I can give you lat/long if that helps.
[23:46] <asac> guess i am better in my head :)
[23:46] <persia> OK.  About livefs images.
[23:46] <asac> no. i can remember its taiwan + 1 ?
[23:46] <asac> or -1 ?
[23:46] <persia> heh :)
[23:46] <persia> +1
[23:46] <asac> ok
[23:46] <asac> so its 8:45 ;)
[23:46] <asac> quite early :)
[23:47] <persia> They do exist.  They can be accessed, but I think they are only accessible to livefs-builder admins and ubuntu-cdimage by default.
[23:47] <asac> ok livefs is much better ;)
[23:47] <asac> hmm
[23:47] <asac> ok
[23:47] <persia> I tend to just pull them from the image, because that's easier.
[23:47] <asac> have a script ready for that?
[23:47] <asac> or monuted?
[23:47] <persia> (or construct them myself with livecd-rootfs)
[23:48] <asac> do you have a full mirror?
[23:48] <asac> i would like to have something that matches what we produce
[23:48] <asac> not something "close"
[23:48] <persia> `sudo mount src/images/foo.img /mnt; cp /mnt/casper/squashfs.img src/scratch/squashfs.img; sudo umount /mnt`
[23:49] <persia> As long as the archive is consistent, running livecd-rootfs locally will produce the same thing as the livefs-builders, unless there is something odd about them.
[23:50] <persia> (like the mksquashfs bug we were discussing earlier)
[23:50] <asac> persia: hm thought the image cannot be mounted because its has multiple partitions etc.
[23:50] <asac> oh
[23:50] <asac> i will figure ;)
[23:50] <persia> OOps.  script error.
[23:51] <persia>  `sudo mount src/images/foo.img /mnt; cp /mnt/casper/filesystem.squashfs  src/scratch/squashfs.img; sudo umount /mnt`
[23:51] <persia> Oh, if you're working with the multipartitioned SD image, just use losetup.
[23:51]  * persia hunts up kirkland's excellent blog post
[23:52] <persia> http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2008/10/mounting-kvm-disk-image.html
[23:55] <persia> So, you run losetup and kpartx before my script, and mount /dev/loopN to /mnt
[23:55] <asac> yeah
[23:55] <asac> that will do i guess
[23:55] <asac> great
[23:55] <asac> bookmarked till i try