[00:43] <opensports> Hello peeps, daftykins : you about ??
[00:43] <daftykins> o/
[00:44] <solarcloud> Looks like it's left up to us two to Rule the channel, again :D
[00:44] <solarcloud> ..I looked into getting a 17" laptop today..
[00:45] <solarcloud> best price was about £100 for a Core 2 Duo....
[00:45] <daftykins> :O
[00:45] <daftykins> not bad
[00:45] <penguin42> solarcloud: That's one hell of a lap
[00:46] <solarcloud> Not really, you always have 50% chance of sending it back to the seller..
[00:47] <solarcloud> I'm after this one now .. as the other one had key Prob.s  :: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fujitsu-Siemens-Amilo-Li2727-Laptop-17-inch-screen-/170983377593?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D5314456501033362947%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D290851828349%26
[00:47] <solarcloud> soz for the long address.
[00:50] <solarcloud> he says he'll accept a buy it now offer .. what do you reckon ? ... £75 quid ???
[00:51] <penguin42> http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/laptops/fujitsu-siemens-amilo-li-2727-review-49298555/specs/
[00:51] <penguin42> was 275 when new about 4.5 years ago
[00:51] <solarcloud> opening..
[00:52] <daftykins> those are amazingly bad pics
[00:53] <penguin42> solarcloud: Pretty poor spec
[00:54] <solarcloud> agreed.. I'll pass on this as I thought it was Core 2 Duo... thanx guys.
[01:01] <solarcloud> Hey guys ..  So basically I've got 90 laptop to choose from (as long as they don't go above £120 end-bid, that is) from this lot :: http://goo.gl/R0g2P .. It's only for learning more python, so feel free to give it a scan to see if you see any beauties or not. thanx in advance :)
[01:09] <penguin42> any reason you want a laptop, and what are your specs you want?
[01:10]  * penguin42 notices the Tesco Outlet; no horse burgers
[01:14] <solarcloud> hi penguin42, the specs are : 17" screen or more , £120 or less, Core Duo or better, must have a clear return for full refund policy. that's basically it, but the £120 or less is the killer.
[01:15] <solarcloud> I hope to sell it on after I put Ubuntu 13.04 on there..
[01:15] <solarcloud> but that's months away..
[01:15] <penguin42> ouch that's a pretty low limit
[01:15] <solarcloud> plenty available though..
[01:16] <solarcloud> it is just for learning a bit more python.. :)
[01:16] <solarcloud> Did you click the link above ...
[01:16] <penguin42> yeh but some of them are spares/repairs - i.e. junk
[01:17] <solarcloud> Well, that's half the fun, sorting the weak from the chaff... :)
[01:18] <solarcloud> I have to say I absolutely hate Acer Aspires .. there are alwats loads of them on ebay due to problems ..
[01:18] <solarcloud> **always..
[01:20] <solarcloud> Oops .. spotted a con job http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=160968343390
[01:20] <solarcloud> bettr watch out for them..
[01:20] <penguin42> ah, I was going to suggest the Tesco acer
[01:21] <penguin42> a few Tosh on there
[01:21] <solarcloud> I'll have a look...
[01:24] <penguin42> solarcloud: Also are you sure you need that size screen?
[01:24] <solarcloud> the HP's look nice .. ending in 18 hours time, I'll have to hang-on and do a last 6 second bid thingy.
[01:24] <penguin42> solarcloud: e.g. if you need the size perhaps plugin to a tv?
[01:25] <solarcloud> I think I need that screen size , why do you ask ?
[01:25] <penguin42> I guess it restricts your options a lot
[01:25] <solarcloud> oh ok .. one problem .. I chucked out the TV last year ! ..
[01:25] <penguin42> oh erm yeh that would be a problem
[01:26] <solarcloud> not really, 'e never looked back :D
[01:26] <solarcloud> **I've
[01:27]  * solarcloud puts his hands in the air as an Expression of Freedom From Tele !!
[01:28] <daftykins> also a CRT would drop your res, not increase it ;)
[01:28] <solarcloud> \o/
[01:33] <penguin42> hmm, don't quite think you can buy a monitor and full machine new for #120 - bet you can do it for #200 including the monitor
[01:34] <solarcloud> yeah, I want a laptop cos it's for the small space consideration... I think I'll try this one ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Pavillion-dv9000-17-Entertainment-laptop-2-0GHz-2GB-RAM-Win-Vista-HP-/261161683012?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item3cce730844
[01:35] <solarcloud> but if all else fails I could try my old desktop in the other room and run Lubuntu on it, I guess.
[01:36] <penguin42> what spec is it?
[01:36] <solarcloud> The spare monitor I have got is DisplayPort and the desktop is old-type monitor cable (not HD or anything) ... so can I use an adapter or what, peeps ??
[01:37] <solarcloud> terrible spec. it's a 2004 machine ..
[01:37] <daftykins> displayport only? are you sure?
[01:37] <daftykins> that's rare as rocking horse...
[01:37] <solarcloud> the monitor is yes.
[01:38] <solarcloud> I'm using three of them now..
[01:38] <daftykins> i hardly believe it D:
[01:38] <penguin42> what model?
[01:38] <solarcloud> Wanna do a hangout and find out ?
[01:39] <penguin42> nah
[01:39] <solarcloud> pity the coward, I do.
[01:40] <daftykins> 'hangout' ?
[01:41] <solarcloud> Anyway, enough of that . I'm done for saturday .. oh wait.. yeah hangout .. I do it everyday on google plus .. it's a video conference.
[01:41] <solarcloud> but I'm sure your not interested, so bye.
[01:42] <daftykins> 0o
[01:50] <solarcloud> Note to self : Ask Ubuntu TV people what nettop to get to try out the TV software O/S and file countless bugs :)
[01:50] <solarcloud> by for now :)
[05:16] <Nils_> Hey guys
[05:16] <Nils_> I found a solution
[05:16] <Nils_> I deleted all my drivers and now it works
[05:17] <Nils_> Should I keep it this way. Which driver do I use now the open source one?
[07:17] <MartijnVdS> woo Half Life (1) works on Intel graphics :)
[07:17]  * MartijnVdS now has a proper game to play in Steam on Ubuntu :)
[10:26] <kala087> hi is there anybody who could help me with linux ubunt?? i am not familiar with system and tried to update but come error and they ask e for grub rescue ??
[10:26] <czajkowski> kala087: just ask and folks may be able to help
[10:26] <czajkowski> it's kinda quiet here on a sunday
[10:31] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ooh, excellent *downloads*
[10:40] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:47] <kala087> hi has anyone have spare minute?? i have update my com yesterday and come up error and grub resue.?? i am not familair with system at all. any advuce ?? please
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> yes.. ask a question and leave
[10:54] <brobostigon> quite,
[11:11] <kvarley> Is there an ubuntu equivalent for this?
[11:11] <kvarley> http://susestudio.com
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: http://ubuntustudio.org/ ?
[11:17] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qBaBb1Y-U ?
[11:18] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Lol
[11:18] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: I meant is there a GUI based app which will let you make your own ubuntu distro
[11:22] <bigcalm_laptop> Hazzar
[11:23] <ali1234> kvarley: you can probably use susestudio with enough hacking around. OBS supports ubuntu
[11:23] <kvarley> ali1234: OBS?
[11:57] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: Half-Life runs flawlessly for me, which is interesting, as it required me to install nvidia-common, yet I have an AMD card.
[11:59] <ali1234> nvidia-common is pulled in by some opengl/opencl stuff
[11:59] <ali1234> it's just silly dependencies, there's a bug about it somewhere
[12:02] <dwatkins> ah ok, I'm just concerned as I had to uninstall all the NVidia packages yesterday to allow Unity to work properly, ali1234.
[12:02] <ali1234> that's kind of weird
[12:04] <dwatkins> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1741783 seems to address this.
[12:31]  * penguin42 wonders why translate.google.com managed to detect the polish source text, but offered me translations to Norwegianm English and Spanish (and picked Norwegian by default)
[12:32] <ali1234> it does that to me all the time
[12:32] <ali1234> then when you change the destination language it also changes the source language to something wrong
[12:33]  * penguin42 also wishes they'd integrate into G+ so that you can easily translate a single post
[12:33] <ali1234> would be nice
[12:34] <ali1234> integrate all the thing!
[12:34] <penguin42> yep
[12:39] <SuperEngineer> hi folkies
[12:40] <SuperEngineer> anyone tried this? http://tomorrowcorporation.com/littleinferno
[12:40] <SuperEngineer> [from same stable as World of Goo]
[12:44] <dwatkins> No, but a friend gives it high praise, SuperEngineer - saw a review on youtube, it looks pretty amusing
[12:45] <penguin42> haha that does look good; we've got a particle simulation engine and by heck we're going to use it :-)
[12:45] <SuperEngineer> dwatkins: cheers - got a friend who took my advice re World og Goo - now hooked & wants this as well!
[13:28] <penguin42> oh that's a fun one; http://apple.slashdot.org/story/13/02/02/225201/typing-these-8-characters-will-crash-almost-any-app-on-your-mountain-lion-mac?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> oops
[14:38] <SuperEngineer> hmmm - my installed 12.04 is 12.04.2 - yet download from Ubuntu still points to 12.04.1 - double hmmm
[14:58] <jacobw> SuperEngineer: if you experienced the confused over 12.04 and 12.04.1 previously, this wouldn't be a suprise to you :p
[14:58] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: lol
[15:34] <jacobw> it takes quite a few clicks from the index of ubuntu.com to find the download page now
[15:39] <SuperEngineer> not to mention being made to feel like a cheapskate just to get a look at what the download image version is before offering £££
[15:42] <SuperEngineer> I would even go so far as saying it's a tad insulting
[15:43] <jacobw> i think it reminds people that producing free software is not without cost
[15:43] <BigRedS> It does rather remind me of all those "Would you like the Google toolbar for IE?" things in Windows freeware installers
[15:45] <SuperEngineer> jacobw: agreed - but... don't profer an insult if I want to see what version you offer *before* I cough up
[15:47] <SuperEngineer> ...and I would like that to be taken as a constructive critism - not a complaint
[16:06] <SuperEngineer> [darn - really wish my fingers remembered to follow my brain when spelling!]
[17:18] <Laney> oh god
[17:18] <Laney> i just realised that the cake tin i'm baking in isn't deep enough and my cake is definitely going to rise over the sides
[17:19]  * Laney thinks about constructing artificial sides out of foil
[17:20] <ahayzen> Laney, tht sounds potentially messy ;) wht cake is it?
[17:20] <Laney> chocolate beetroot
[17:20] <ahayzen> nice
[17:21] <Laney> every time i look it's closer
[17:21] <Laney> and i dont have enough foil arghghgosudhgosdhg
[17:21] <ahayzen> could put it on baking sheet just in case ;)
[17:21] <ahayzen> so it doesn't wreck the oven
[17:21] <Laney> did
[17:21] <penguin42> yeesh beetroot
[17:21] <Laney> but i want to save the cake too if possible
[17:23] <ahayzen> could put another tin of similar size upside down on top lol...gonna have to think of something out of the box (or cake tin hehe)
[17:25] <Laney> yeah i put the outside of another tin over it
[17:25] <Laney> who knows what will happen
[17:26] <ahayzen> only one way to find out ;)
[18:08] <brobostigon> question, would it be possible, to use something like a ssh tunnel, between my rpi and my vps? and have traffic able to flow both ways?
[18:12] <zleap> brobostigon, i can't see why not ,  a pi is just another linux box
[18:12] <brobostigon> zleap: i just havent found a simple enough solution yet, i have read about vpn's and ssh tunnels and other solutions also.
[18:14] <zleap> ok
[18:14] <zleap> can you do it between 2 normal linux boxes
[18:14] <brobostigon> ssh, yes,
[18:15] <zleap> ok
[18:16] <zleap> so what is the VPN virtual private network,  so basically you want a secure link between 2 or more computers
[18:16] <brobostigon> yes.
[18:16] <brobostigon> same as an ssh tunnel.
[18:17] <zleap> ok
[18:17] <brobostigon> more or less,
[18:18] <jacobw> brobostigon: run openvpn on your vps and use a tap device
[18:18] <zleap> i am not an expert at this,  but i am guessing it should be possible as te PI is just running Linux,  maybe ask on #raspberrypi o
[18:18] <zleap> tap device
[18:18] <zleap> ?
[18:18] <brobostigon> jacobw: that is what i have been looking at,
[18:19] <popey> you could use openvpn
[18:20] <jacobw> yeah, if you use openvpn with a tap device you'll get an interface with a routeable address on pi and on the vps
[18:21] <brobostigon> ah. i see, that could be useful.
[18:22] <jacobw> sorry, tun, not tap
[18:22] <jacobw> tap is l2, tun is l3
[18:24] <zleap> ?
[18:24] <jacobw> https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/wiki/BridgingAndRouting
[18:24]  * zleap is baffled
[18:25] <zleap> ah vpn stuff, i thought for a min you were talking about people
[18:25] <brobostigon> jacobw: yes, thats what i am reading,
[18:27] <jacobw> zleap: tap and tun devices are virtual network devices in the kernel, openvpn can give you an ethernet→ethernet adapter to send frames through which is a tap device or a network→network adapter which is a tun device to send packets through
[18:29] <zleap> ok
[18:30] <jacobw> i dunno how i could have been talking about people o_O
[18:30] <zleap> its fine,  didn't know what tap and tun was
[18:31] <brobostigon> jacobw: ok, question, is it possible to do the authentication without certificates?
[18:38] <jacobw> brobostigon: you can use a preshared key or usernames and passwords
[18:38] <brobostigon> jacobw: ah, i think i just found a page on the openvpn site about it.
[18:40] <jacobw> remember you don't have to use passphrases on keys, you can leave them unwrapped and readable only by the system user to be used by services
[18:41] <brobostigon> interesting,
[18:47] <popey> AlanBell: are your ears burning?
[18:47] <popey> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1030/jblive/
[18:47] <popey> your blog post being talked about
[18:48] <popey> #jupiterbroadcasting on irc.geekshed.net
[20:35] <AlanBell> hi popey
[20:35] <popey> hello
[20:36] <AlanBell> what is jupiter broadcasting?
[20:57] <popey> AlanBell: podcast
[20:57] <popey> Linux Action Show
[20:58] <AlanBell> ah, that has a reddit thing, I got some hits from that to the blog article
[21:10] <bigcalm> Hola
[21:11] <popey> moo
[21:11] <bigcalm> How do?
[21:12] <popey> meh
[21:12] <bigcalm> That good eh? :)
[21:13] <bigcalm> Having had the week off, I should be feeling quite relaxed
[21:13] <bigcalm> Instead I'm just thinking about tomorrow morning
[21:20] <bigcalm> Headphones in, code up.  Rub ivanova's tummy, she grabs at your hand & starts to lick
[23:49] <daftykins> ;)


[05:31] <rozasirena> Hello
[16:00] <ev> hi
[16:00] <mvo> hi
[16:01] <ev> Keybuk, barry, cjwatson: ping
[16:01]  * barry waves
[16:01] <Keybuk> hai
[16:03] <psurbhi> o/
[16:03] <ev> ah, I thought you were csurbhi
[16:03] <ev> apologies
[16:03] <psurbhi> np :)
[16:03] <ev> ah, on Canonical
[16:03] <ev> right
[16:03] <ev> order is: mvo, surbhi, cjwatson, Keybuk, doko, barry, ev
[16:03] <ev> (I totally lucked out)
[16:03] <ev> ready, go!
[16:04] <mvo> did: language-selector mini-sprint, software-center work, update-manager work
[16:04] <mvo> will do: merges, work on buy-something spec
[16:04] <mvo> (done)
[16:04] <cjwatson> hi
[16:04] <ev> hi cjwatson
[16:04] <psurbhi> doing: btrfs support for grub
[16:04] <psurbhi> created a userspace program that reads a raw btrfs image and finds and reads the btrfs files that its requested to
[16:05] <psurbhi> this is done for a single device, no subvolume support and no caching
[16:05] <psurbhi> in the process of porting this to grub.. needs testing on grub
[16:05] <psurbhi> learning how grub-2 compilation/config process and then plan to test through qemu
[16:05] <psurbhi> should  be able to show something by next meeting
[16:06] <psurbhi> atleast the first version
[16:06] <psurbhi> ..
[16:06] <cjwatson> (done?)
[16:06] <psurbhi> sorry, yeah
[16:06] <cjwatson> :)
[16:06] <cjwatson> done: lots and lots of grub bug triaging and packaging work, bringing us up to a new snapshot (or will do once the alpha-1 freeze lifts); alpha-1 preparation work; landed grub btrfs-probe branch upstream
[16:06] <cjwatson> todo: alpha-1; rearrange grub-rescue-pc so that we can ship EFI images in it and use it as a d-i build-dependencies, without having to solve the thornier grub-pc/grub-efi-* coinstallability problem; sprint in C
[16:06] <cjwatson> ambridge part of next week
[16:06] <cjwatson> --
[16:06] <Keybuk> Haven't accomplished anything this week, feeling demotivated :-(  Sorry
[16:06] <Keybuk> ~
[16:07]  * mvo hugs Keybuk
[16:08] <ev> doko?
[16:08] <cjwatson> my week has been a bit "need more coffee", FWIW
[16:08] <cjwatson> (the cynical may point out that all my weeks are like that)
[16:08] <barry> ;}
[16:08]  * mvo points out that he got some excellent tea from Arne from .tw
[16:09] <barry> mvo: nice!
[16:09] <barry> doko going once, doko going twice...
[16:09] <barry> quickly python; bug 585617 w/submitted patch. python 2.7 stack ppa created; uploaded py 2.7 from debian + python-defaults; tested on maverick vm; many more packages needed; more emails on debian-python. cj 2.0.3 to fix bug 586088; udd packaging refactor found bug 587058; bug triage.  us holiday; sprint arrangements; dkim draft discussion w/scottk.  eot.
[16:10] <barry> eot == done :)
[16:12]  * ScottK looks up.
[16:12] <cjwatson> ev: your turn?
[16:13] <barry> ScottK: sorry to wake you up :)
[16:13] <barry> cjwatson: maybe his net went down?
[16:15] <Keybuk> let's carry on without him
[16:16] <cjwatson> yes - can you?  sorry, browser being stupidly slow
[16:17] <Keybuk> is there anything else?
[16:18] <Keybuk> we've done the lightning rounds, and there isn't anything else on the agenda afaict
[16:18] <cjwatson> may not be :) I'm just looking through the iso.qa bugs for alpha-1 to see if there's anything that needs to be farmed out
[16:18] <doko> pong, sorry for being late
[16:19] <cjwatson> there are a couple of annoying bugs but I'm not seeing anything that's a true showstopper
[16:19] <ev> back
[16:19] <cjwatson> ah good
[16:19] <ev> (oh sure, we'll give you 50Mb, but good luck using it because our service has an uptime measured in seconds)
[16:19] <ev> done: lots of Hudson work.  I think I now have a sufficient handle on what needs to be done and how to do it, and have made some headway on that front.  Moving onto installer work and helping xnox with usb-creator stuff for the rest of the week, making sure we're on track with those before I go on vacation for a week (on Monday).
[16:19] <ev> blocked: installer specification.  Working with Michael Forrest in the office on this.  Will continue to push to have it ready ASAP, but I'm going to start working on the obvious items (debconf passthrough, etc)
[16:19] <ev> --
[16:20] <ev> doko: back to you
[16:20] <barry> ev: i'm interested in hearing more about hudson, when you have some time
[16:21] <ev> barry: I'm free after the meeting if you want to jump into 1-on-1
[16:21]  * mvo finds maverick pretty unusuable currently because of the metacity/gtk issues (iirc #584287)
[16:21] <barry> ev: sounds good
[16:21] <doko> done: eglibc-2.12 packaging, minor toolchain updates, libstdc++ testing against installed libstdc++, llvm/clang updates. toolchain should be in place now, no more major changes expected
[16:21] <doko> --
[16:21] <ev> back to bugs
[16:21] <ev> I didn't see anything milestoned for alpha 1
[16:22] <barry> mvo: ouch.  works okay in a command line vm :)
[16:22] <ev> does anyone have any bugs they'd like to raise?
[16:22] <mvo> barry: heh :) yeah, I use xfwm4 currently
[16:22] <ev> metacity> yikes!
[16:23] <oubiwann> I've got something I'd like to bring up... if now's a good time
[16:23] <cjwatson> there are a couple of 10.04 hardcodings which are fairly trivial
[16:23] <cjwatson> encrypted home is apparently broken: bug 588705
[16:23] <cjwatson> and bug 588696 probably needs some attention (maybe from me)
[16:24] <ev> odd
[16:24] <ev> I'll take 588705
[16:24] <ev> any other bugs? (then oubiwann)
[16:24]  * oubiwann nods
[16:26] <oubiwann> looks like no more bugs?
[16:26] <ev> the floor is yours, oubiwann
[16:26] <oubiwann> cool
[16:26] <oubiwann> Q-FUNK left a comment on the Foundations 10.10 blog post I did regarding some concerns about the 686 jump
[16:27] <oubiwann> he's also posted some feedback directly to the blueprint
[16:27] <oubiwann> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-m-686-compile/
[16:27] <oubiwann> some of his concerns:
[16:27] <oubiwann> "that compiling to anything more recent than 586 essentially makes LTSP unusable since most thin client hardware out there is based on single-chip 586-compatible hardware"
[16:27] <oubiwann> "while those chipsets (mainly VIA and Geode) are just a few instructions short of 686, they nonetheless are essentially souped-up 586-compatible"
[16:28] <oubiwann> and
[16:28] <oubiwann> "basically, it's rather dangerous to push that sudden bump to i686 without considering the compromise of 586 and without putting some sort of safeguard in the preinst script to prevent upgrade on an unsupported arch"
[16:28] <oubiwann> Q-FUNK: anything else to add?
[16:29] <Q-FUNK> Debian went through a similar machine bump on SPARC and learned the hard way that the only safe way to prevent upgrades on no longer supported hardware is via a preinst segment. I'd suggest that we use this method as well.
[16:29] <oubiwann> doko: what are your thoughts on this?
[16:30] <Q-FUNK> and, above all, I'd suggest reconsidering the jump to 686 down to a more conservative 586.
[16:31] <oubiwann> doko: ping :-)
[16:31] <Q-FUNK> as it stands, an awful lot of LTSP users (especially schools) had *chosen* Ubuntu for their classrooms.  a few have already responded to the 686 news by saying goodbye.  this is undesirable publicity.
[16:31] <doko> oubiwann: the outcome at UDS was, that we did want to switch to i686; I don't mind if we add some code to prevent updates on these processors. not sure, what was done for sparc
[16:32] <oubiwann> Q-FUNK: that's sad news... are they open to engaging in a community conversation about this?
[16:32] <cjwatson> I must say I was slightly surprised that we executed the UDS decision so quickly; I had been expecting a mail to u-d-a and a period of consultation.  I probably should have said that in the session
[16:32] <mvo_> I can add code to update-manager that checks for no-longer supported processors
[16:32] <cjwatson> (I realise toolchain things always get necessarily pushed early)
[16:32] <Q-FUNK> they would be open to engaging conversation if the UDS crowd did.  unfortunetely, -m686 compiled libc6 has already been pushed without consulting the community.
[16:33] <Q-FUNK> from my perspective, I cannot help but side with the users.  many of the clean-up goals for maverick were decided at UDS without consultatino with the community at large.
[16:34] <ev> In fairness, UDS is not a closed event.  Anyone can participate.
[16:34] <Q-FUNK> or at least, were implemented without further ado, as in the -m686 libc6 case.
[16:35] <oubiwann> Q-FUNK: yes, I see your point, and thought I can see why tool-chain changes need to happen early on in the cycle, I'm also surprised at how quickly this got done!
[16:35] <Q-FUNK> mvo_: not everyone uses update-manager.  some old-timers still use apt-get or aptitude on CLI. :)
[16:35] <oubiwann> cjohnston: yes, your right -- we should have sent an intent announcement to the list
[16:36] <cjwatson> "down to a more conservative 586" - remind me, what was the state in lucid?  I thought it was effectively 586
[16:36] <doko> well, it's not only libc6, but the defaults in the compiler
[16:36] <Q-FUNK> mvo_: hence the need to implement the check in preinst -- whatever the final decision for an eventual minimum arch bump might be.
[16:36] <doko> no, lucid is still i486
[16:36] <barry> oubiwann: is there One True Place where toolchain changes should be sent?
[16:36] <oubiwann> barry: I don't know, honestly... cjwatson?
[16:36] <cjwatson> 486, ok.  well, I don't think we'd want to build for 586; IIRC that pessimises for many more modern processors.  it's 486 or 686.
[16:36] <cjwatson> ubuntu-devel-announce
[16:38] <barry> cjwatson: thx
[16:38] <cjwatson> so I'm very concerned about this, but I also know doko has been asking for this for a long time and it seemed at UDS that we must be reaching the point of diminishing returns for the older processors
[16:38] <Q-FUNK> another issue with -m686 is that even if LTSP users stick with Lucid, in 2 years when LTS+1 comes out, they will come to a dead-end.
[16:38] <cjwatson> I'm really quite surprised that there are so many old processors still around; we looked at the release dates of cmov-supporting processors and they were, remind me, 15 years ago or something?
[16:38] <doko> Q-FUNK: well, it's not that quickly, we discussed this at previous UDS'es as well. and we still have the option to build for i586 in a ppa, at least the subset of packages needed fir ltsp. how many are these?
[16:38] <cjwatson> maybe more like 10
[16:39] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: the whole Geode line and many of the VIA processors are effectively souped-up 586 compabitles.
[16:39] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: that 686 is already old as a
[16:40] <Q-FUNK> n architecture is understood.
[16:40] <Q-FUNK> it's just that a lot of low-power hardware is based on 586-compatible cores.
[16:40] <doko> Q-FUNK: which ones of the vias are still sold today?
[16:40] <cjwatson> the first VIA processor to support cmov was definitely quite some time ago; somebody dug up the release date in the UDS session, I think
[16:40] <cjwatson> I like the possibility of being able to move on with standard Ubuntu, but maintain a 586-compatible version in a PPA, particularly if that could be done automatically
[16:40] <cjwatson> Q-FUNK, do you think that could be an acceptable option?
[16:41] <cjwatson> (adding a check to libc6.preinst seems like a no-brainer sane thing to do, BTW)
[16:41] <mvo_> if we have such a PPA update-manager could add it automatically on upgrade too
[16:41] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: I'm not so convinced. already, lubuntu and the whole LXDE environment only makes sense if older hardware is supported.
[16:41] <mvo_> (plus the libc6.preinst thing for people not using it)
[16:42] <cjwatson> Lubuntu isn't one of our primary flavours (yet), and it could easily be made to use a PPA build
[16:43] <doko> Q-FUNK: please could you elaborate which/ho many packages are used by these?
[16:44] <Q-FUNK> the only half-usable alternative I can think would be to have separate libc6 etc. packages to build an LTSP chroot, but even then that would not solve the problem of a dead-end for everyone who has something based on e.g. the ION603.
[16:44] <ogra> note that m586 thin clients get more and more rare
[16:44] <cjwatson> it's not a dead-end if there's an archive available for them to migrate to
[16:44] <ogra> most common ones you can buy since 1/2 years use atom
[16:45] <Q-FUNK> ogra: there's already huge deployments of 586 thin clients.  that upcoming products will eventually use LPIA is a separate issue.
[16:45] <ogra> Q-FUNK, LPIA is dead since ages
[16:45] <cjwatson> BTW everything I can find from searching suggests that Geode has cmov support?
[16:47] <doko> Q-FUNK: it's not just libc6, it's *any* package
[16:47] <cjwatson> thread on fedora-devel-list indicates that it works with gcc's -m686
[16:47] <xnox> How old hardware are we talking here? Pentium Pro 200MHz processor released in 1995 is i686 processor. Can lubuntu run on that? And it will be 17years old by the next LTS release
[16:47] <cjwatson> err -march=686 or whatever it is
[16:47] <doko> xnox: yes, it can
[16:47] <ogra> xnox, there are some via based SoC thin clients that are 586, they might still be around
[16:48] <ogra> very old via eipa etc
[16:48] <xnox> IMHO supporting 17year old CPU's is good enough for ubuntu.
[16:48] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: IIRC at least the Geode LX is just one instruction short of supporting 686.  slightly older Geodes are based on slightly older x86 instruction sets, slightly higher than 586, but still not a full 686.
[16:48]  * xnox goes to read up about VIA
[16:48] <cjwatson> Q-FUNK: the question is really whether it works with gcc's idea of 686, and the thread on fedora-devel-list indicates that it does
[16:49] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: the bug I filed results from an illegal instruction error I got on a Geode, since libc6 2.12~ was pushed.  if -m686 worked, I don't think that I would have encountered that error.
[16:49] <cjwatson> if there's a slightly different idea in libc, then going back to carrying a libc6-i686 package for that wouldn't be a big deal.  I would like to keep the gcc change if we can though
[16:49] <cjwatson> Q-FUNK: the question is whether that's in libc or due to gcc optimisation, I think
[16:49] <cjwatson> is it possible to determine that?
[16:49] <cjwatson> because that will make a huge difference
[16:49] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: good question.
[16:50] <ev> okay, lets take this to #ubuntu-devel so we can wrap up the foundations team meeting
[16:50] <cjwatson> if it's due to gcc optimisation, then I think the PPA option is the most likely to be feasible
[16:51] <ev> right, moving on.  Be a buddy, sponsor a contributor - http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[16:51] <xnox> http://en.gentoo-wiki.com/wiki/Safe_Cflags/AMD#Geode_LX
[16:51] <Q-FUNK> cjwatson: IIRC cjb of the OLPC team has investigated this and narrowed it down to one single instruction. apparently a patch exists to emulate the missing instruction, but it was rejected by the LKML.
[16:51] <xnox> Geode LX 486, Geode GX1 586
[16:52] <Q-FUNK> xnox: that should be the other way around
[16:52] <ev> I didn't see any business in the activity reports.
[16:52] <cjwatson> Q-FUNK: cjb was the person who posted to fedora-devel-list saying that 686 was generally fine for Geode :)
[16:52] <cjwatson> anyway, #ubuntu-devel please
[16:52]  * ev bangs gavel
[16:52] <ev> right
[16:52] <Q-FUNK> alright -> #ubuntu-devel then. :)
[16:52] <ev> I take it there's no business from the activity reports then
[16:52] <ev> good news?
[16:53] <ev> We've got a +1 from an ftpmaster for renaming usb-creator to startup-disk-creator so it may go into Debian
[16:53] <ev> great work on that one, xnox
[16:53] <xnox> k
[16:54] <ev> any other business?
[16:54] <ev> please put your activity reports on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0602 if you have not already done so
[16:55] <ev> don't bother mailing them to me, though if you already have, I'll paste it in
[16:55] <ev> finally, who wants to run the next meeting (you're not allowed to leave until we have a victim! ;) )
[16:57] <barry> ev: when you run the shuffle script, who comes up first? :)
[16:57] <mvo_> *cough*
[16:57] <ev> mvo_: winner
[16:57] <ev> right, thanks everyone!
[16:58] <psurbhi> thanks ev!
[16:58] <mvo_> thanks ev
[16:58] <barry> thanks ev
[16:58]  * psurbhi leaves
[17:58]  * charlie-tca waves
[17:58]  * ara waves
[17:58]  * marjo waves
[17:58] <hggdh> ~o~
[17:59]  * marjo likes the rotating chairperson concept
[17:59] <pedro_> hola!
[17:59] <sbeattie> marjo: I bet you do! :-)
[18:01] <sbeattie> Alright, might as well get it going.
[18:01] <sbeattie> #startmeeting QA Team Meeting
[18:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:01. The chair is sbeattie.
[18:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01] <sbeattie> Our agenda, as usual, is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
[18:01] <sbeattie> # review previous action items (all)
[18:01] <sbeattie> # SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:01] <sbeattie> # Bug Day status -- pedro_
[18:01] <sbeattie> # Blueprints update -- all
[18:01] <sbeattie> # Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
[18:01] <sbeattie> # Alpha 1 ISO Testing status - ara
[18:01] <sbeattie> # Firefox 3.6.4 security update testing - ara
[18:01] <sbeattie> # Selection of new chair - sbeattie
[18:01] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] review previous action items (all)
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  review previous action items (all)
[18:02] <sbeattie> sbeattie: archive SRU reports in the Ubuntu wiki
[18:02] <sbeattie> This is done: see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/SRUReports
[18:02] <sbeattie> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/SRUReports
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/SRUReports
[18:02] <sbeattie> hggdh: ask stgraber how often they are having Edubuntu meetings (at 19:00 UTC)
[18:03] <hggdh> could not get in contact with him, will grab him today. Comments around state meetings are every week
[18:03] <sbeattie> hggdh: yeah, I noticed they had their meeting last week.
[18:03] <sbeattie> hggdh: okay, thanks.
[18:03] <sbeattie> ara: send txwikinger an overview of the ISO tracker work
[18:04] <ara> sbeattie, done, he is now looking in to it, and will get back to me when he's ready to contribute
[18:04] <sbeattie> ara: awesome
[18:04] <sbeattie> ara: send email to awbancroft about Sound Card Compatibility Testing
[18:04] <sbeattie> is awbancroft available for that agenda item today?
[18:04] <ara> sbeattie, done, he replied and told me that he wants to join today
[18:04] <sbeattie> Okay.
[18:04] <ara> sbeattie, but..he does not seem to be around...
[18:04] <sbeattie> yeah. :-(
[18:05] <sbeattie> moving on...
[18:05] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:05] <sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-05-26):
[18:05] <sbeattie>  lucid::                                                                                * 24 new packages in -proposed (abcde, aqualung, brasero, cairo-dock-plug-ins, check, docky, drbd8, epiphany-browser, get-iplayer, gnome-keyring, gnome-panel, gxine, harpia, indicator-application, kdepimlibs, libapache2-mod-fcgid, lxinput, nvidia-graphics-drivers, pcmanfm, software-center, themonospot, tomcat6, update-manager, xsane)
[18:05] <sbeattie>    * 20 packages pushed to -updates (abiword, cups, deja-dup, evince, exo, gnome-screensaver, gtk+2.0, gtkmm2.4, gvfs, gwibber, kdebase-runtime, librsvg, netbook-launcher, openal-soft, pygtksourceview, python-apt, rhythmbox, simple-scan, totem, vinagre)
[18:05] <sbeattie>  karmic::
[18:05] <sbeattie>    * 2 packages pushed to -updates (eclipse, postgresql-8.4)
[18:05] <sbeattie>  jaunty::
[18:05] <sbeattie>    * 1 package pushed to -updates (virtualbox-ose)
[18:05] <sbeattie>  hardy::
[18:05] <sbeattie>    * no SRU activity
[18:05] <sbeattie>  dapper::
[18:05] <sbeattie>    * no SRU activity
[18:05] <sbeattie> (bah, silly copy & waste)
[18:05] <sbeattie> Thanks to ahart01, PAUL GIBSON, Otus, enzo, Uqbar, Benedikt Kristinsson, yarly, Pedro Villavicencio (pedro_), Ian Halpern, Guria (Guria), Thorsten Reinbold, nicolagiacobbe, devnulljp, Olivier Tilloy (oSoMoN), C de-Avillez (hggdh), Clovis Peruchi Scotti (cpscotti), Martin Beltov, Tim85, Bo Pearce, wizeman, Pablo Estigarribia and Andrew Straw for testing packages in -proposed.
[18:06] <sbeattie> As always, we'd appreciate people interested in testing the pending SRUs, see http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html for what's currently in the queue.
[18:06] <sbeattie> Any questions about SRUs this week?
[18:07] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Bug Day status -- pedro_
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Day status -- pedro_
[18:07] <pedro_> The past Thursday we had a bug day based on the Epiphany Browser
[18:07] <pedro_> ~52 bugs were triaged during that day. Thanks a lot to our bug day heroes: evfool, vish, kamusin, micahg, dmitrij.ledkov, skarottes and sinzui  you guys rock!
[18:07] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100527
[18:08] <pedro_> the KDE triagers also organized one for KDEPim
[18:08] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100527/KDE
[18:08] <sbeattie> Woot, nice work everyone!
[18:09] <pedro_> it was the same day though so it generated some confusion, I've been talking with txwikinger and i suggested to move the KDE bug day to another day perhaps Monday
[18:09] <pedro_> so they can have more contributors and we can announce it more nicely ;-)
[18:09] <sbeattie> Ah, yeah.
[18:09] <pedro_> more news on that to come, so stay tune for KDE Bug days!
[18:09] <sbeattie> I didn't happen to see the KDE announcement, did it go out to ubuntu-qa@ and elsewhere?
[18:09] <pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day based on Compiz, there's plenty of bugs waiting to be triaged,  if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us at #ubuntu-bugs , we'll be glad to help you to start
[18:10] <pedro_> sbeattie, it went to bugsquad only IIRC
[18:10] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100603 <- page for the compiz bug day , again if you have some time you're more than welcome to help us tomorrow ;-)
[18:11] <pedro_> sbeattie, that's all from here unless there's a question
[18:11] <sbeattie> Thanks, pedro_. Questions, anyone?
[18:11] <txwikinger> sbeattie: I sent out the announcement through various planets
[18:11] <txwikinger> and put it into topics in IRC channels
[18:12] <txwikinger> next time I will also put it on some more MLs
[18:12] <txwikinger> I am planning to start coming Monday
[18:12] <sbeattie> txwikinger: okay, that sounds good, thanks for organizing!
[18:12] <txwikinger> np
[18:13] <sbeattie> txwikinger: do you know what you'll be focusing the next one on?
[18:13] <txwikinger> yes kdenetwork package
[18:13] <txwikinger> i.e. kopete and so on
[18:14] <sbeattie> sounds good.
[18:14] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Blueprints update -- all
[18:14] <sbeattie> Does anyone want to give an updated status on their blueprints?
[18:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints update -- all
[18:14] <marjo> sbeattie: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa.html
[18:14] <sbeattie> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa.html
[18:14] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/maverick/canonical-platform-qa.html
[18:15] <ara> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
[18:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/qa-maverick-mago-daily
[18:15] <ara> This blueprint covers running mago tests on a daily basis
[18:15] <ara> I was able to set a Hudson local server to run mago tests as "build" tasks
[18:16] <ara> Now I need to discover how to run those tests in satellites, rather than the hudson server itself
[18:16] <ara> ev is doing something similar for the installer, and I will coordinate with him to try to avoid duplicating efforts
[18:16] <sbeattie> ara: interesting. I've seen evan dandrea doing some stuff with hudson, you might ask him for pointers.
[18:17] <ara> ;-)
[18:17] <sbeattie> ara: heh.
[18:17] <ara> if anyone wants to play around with mago and hudson and give us a hand, please, let me know :-)
[18:17] <ara> help always welcome
[18:17] <sbeattie> ara: do you have sample configurations available anywhere?
[18:18] <sbeattie> or, rather, where would we start looking if we wanted to play with it?
[18:18] <ara> sbeattie, sorry, I have not, I will make a branch under ~apulido/junk and will link it to the blueprint
[18:19] <sbeattie> ara: that'd be awesome.
[18:19] <ara> and docs! yes! I could create some documentation as well
[18:19] <sbeattie> [ACTION] ara to create hudson+mago branch and write some docs.
[18:19] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ara to create hudson+mago branch and write some docs.
[18:19] <ara> ok, thanks :-)
[18:20] <sbeattie> anyone else have something to talk about their blueprints?
[18:20] <hggdh> on my side: I will have to talk with Jos -- too much on my plate
[18:20] <hggdh> (UEC Testing is *big*)
[18:21]  * jiboumans perks up
[18:21] <marjo> hggdh: more like *huge*
[18:22] <sbeattie> hggdh: okay, I think we can let you, jiboumans, and marjo sort it out.
[18:22] <hggdh> jiboumans: let's see it
[18:22] <hggdh> later
[18:23] <sbeattie> alright, moving on.
[18:23] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
[18:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sound Card Compatibility Testing - awbancroft
[18:23] <sbeattie> Doesn't seem like awbancroft is here?
[18:24] <sbeattie> If they show up, we can come back to it.
[18:24] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Alpha 1 ISO Testing status - ara
[18:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Alpha 1 ISO Testing status - ara
[18:24] <sbeattie> ara: how's alpha 1 testing going?
[18:24] <ara> OK, Alpha 1 testing coverage is looking good for an alpha 1
[18:24] <ara> [LINK] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/
[18:24] <ara> But, as you may see, there are some images that haven't been tested at all
[18:25] <ara> [LINK] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
[18:25] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/untested
[18:25] <ara> it is always nice to reach 100% IMAGE coverage even in alphas
[18:25] <ara> it is not that urgent to get 100% testcase coverage
[18:26] <ara> but we need to make sure that all the images are working correctly (more or less, you know)
[18:26] <fader_> ara: It looks like some of the flavors are not being tested; will they be tested in later alphas?
[18:26] <bladernr_> ara: I like the new main view (showing all the variants by default)
[18:27] <ara> fader_, there were some build problems earlier in the week, I guess the will get fixed later in the cycle
[18:27] <ara> fader_, are you talking about mythbuntu?
[18:27] <fader_> Got it... thanks
[18:27] <ara> or something else?
[18:27] <fader_> ara: Yes :)
[18:27] <sbeattie> fader_: yes, mythbuntu had some issues, but are expecting to be back available for alpha 2.
[18:28] <fader_> sbeattie, ara: cool, thanks.  I didn't even realize that I hadn't gotten the email notification about the mythbuntu builds until just now :/
[18:28] <sbeattie> and, yes, thanks ara for continuing to improve the iso tracker.
[18:28] <fader_> +1!
[18:28] <ara> sbeattie, the all/all was a minor change in the database... nothing too fancy
[18:29] <sbeattie> ara: regardless, we all appreciate it. :-)
[18:29] <ara> OK, back to testing, please, if you have some spare time/hw/vm, please, focus on untested images
[18:29] <ara> and then the rest
[18:29]  * sbeattie will be able to help out after the meeting ends.
[18:30] <sbeattie> any more questions about alpha 1 testing?
[18:30] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Firefox 3.6.4 security update testing - ara
[18:30] <MootBot> New Topic:  Firefox 3.6.4 security update testing - ara
[18:31] <ara> OK, just in case you've missed the news, xulrunner 1.9 is no longer maintained by Mozilla anymore
[18:31] <ara> so, we are going to put Firefox 3.6.4 not only in Lucid, but also in Hardy, Jaunty and Karmic
[18:32] <ara> yes, yes, yes, I know, that's a new release in a stable release! crazy security team, sbeattie :P
[18:32] <sbeattie> ara: crazy upstream, more like; the security team's not happy about it, either.
[18:32] <ara> so, testing (a lot of) is needed
[18:32] <ara> sbeattie, :-)
[18:33] <ara> if you guys want to help testing (a VM is OK) you can follow the steps at:
[18:33] <ara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Firefox3.6.4Upgrade
[18:33] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Firefox3.6.4Upgrade
[18:33] <ara> and if you have any questions I am sure chrisccoulson will be happy to answer those
[18:34] <BlackZ> sure ara, I will test it as well (sorry for the interruption)
[18:35] <ara> BlackZ, thanks!
[18:35] <sbeattie> ara: hrm, the tracker at http://mozilla.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all only lists the hardy build; is jaunty and lucid coming?
[18:35] <ara> jaunty and karmic, not lucid
[18:35] <sbeattie> (or is that a question for chriscoulson?)
[18:35] <ara> yes, they will come when chrisccoulson has the packages ready in his ppa
[18:35] <sbeattie> ah, okay.
[18:36] <ara> the Mozilla team pushed back the release to June 7th IIRC, so we have a bit more time
[18:38] <sbeattie> Okay, thanks.
[18:38] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Next meeting and selection of new chair - sbeattie
[18:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Next meeting and selection of new chair - sbeattie
[18:38] <sbeattie> Do we have a victim, erm, a volunteer willing to chair the next meeting?
[18:39]  * sbeattie listens to the crickets....
[18:39] <sbeattie> fader_, pedro_, hggdh: any of you want to take it?
[18:40] <fader_> sbeattie: "want" is such a strong word... I'll take it though :)
[18:40] <sbeattie> fader_: thanks, appreciated.
[18:40] <sbeattie> (perhaps after everyone does a round of it, we should just go in a defined order)
[18:41] <sbeattie> with the next meeting, should we try to do the shifted meeting at 19:00 UTC?
[18:41] <ara> sbeattie, before knowing if we have room for it?
[18:41] <fader_> Doesn't that still conflict with the edubuntu meeting?
[18:42] <sbeattie> Given that edubuntu does seem to hold weekly meetings at that time, we'd have to hold it in #ubuntu-quality
[18:42] <ara> sbeattie, OK, I can take the action of talking with the IRC Council to see the steps on having a meeting bot there
[18:43] <sbeattie> ara or anyone else: do you have any idea how long that will take to go through?
[18:43] <ara> sbeattie, no idea
[18:45] <sbeattie> [ACTION] ara to talkwith the IRC Council to find out the stpes for setting up a meeting bot in #ubuntu-quality
[18:45] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ara to talkwith the IRC Council to find out the stpes for setting up a meeting bot in #ubuntu-quality
[18:47] <sbeattie> I don't have a strong opinion on whether we should start with the altered time next; fader_, since you're the next meeting chair I'll leave it up to you.
[18:47] <sbeattie> (but we need a decision one way or the other)
[18:48] <fader_> sbeattie: My vote would be to do it at the new time since ara is going through the effort of getting us a bot
[18:48] <sbeattie> fader_: okay, then let's plan on that. Next week's meeting will be at 19:00 UTC, wednesday, June 8th, in #ubuntu-quality.
[18:49] <sbeattie> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[18:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[18:49] <sbeattie> Did awbancroft show up? Doesn't seem like it...
[18:50] <sbeattie> Okay, thanks everyone!
[18:50] <sbeattie> #endmeeting.
[18:50] <fader_> Thanks all
[18:50] <sbeattie> #endmeeting
[18:50] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:50.
[18:50] <ara> cheers
[18:50] <marjo> thanks all!
[18:50] <marjo> sbeattie: thx for chairing
[18:50] <bittin> what meeting was that?
[18:50] <sbeattie> bittin: QA team meeting
[18:50] <hggdh> bittin: QA
[18:50] <bittin> ah
[18:51] <bittin> never mind then iam waiting for the Edubuntu one
[18:51] <bittin> and the Fridge Calender is not using Swedish timezone :(
[18:51] <bittin> so got confused
[18:52] <xnox> bittin, if you subscribe to fridge in google calendar you can view it in your local timezone =)
[18:53] <bittin> xnox: :o i might do that then
[18:53] <bittin> xnox: thanks for the info :)
[20:00] <highvoltage> Right, who's here for the Edubuntu weekly meeting?
[20:00] <bittin> me
[20:00] <highvoltage> hey bittin
[20:00] <bittin> hi
[20:01] <alkisg> Hi people
[20:02] <highvoltage> not too much on the agenda tonight, I don't have too many updates to be honest, I haven't exactly had the best time-management the last week and tumbled a bit
[20:02] <highvoltage> the first alpha release is scheduled for tomorrow
[20:02]  * bencrisford wanders in
[20:03] <highvoltage> ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MaverickReleaseSchedule )
[20:04] <highvoltage> stgraber: can we test todays iso images for the alpha?
[20:04] <highvoltage> none are listed on http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/edubuntu/all currently
[20:07] <highvoltage> essentially there shouldn't be a lot to test that isn't in Ubuntu
[20:07] <highvoltage> but the idea is that if there's any edubuntu-specific problems we can sort it out early
[20:08] <highvoltage> bencrisford: how are things going with the advocacy team, have you had any time to spend on that again?
[20:08] <bencrisford> highvoltage: dont think there is anything new
[20:08] <bencrisford> I had some thoughts about the structure of the branch
[20:08] <highvoltage> I guess we also really need our new website for some of the things we've discussed before
[20:09] <highvoltage> I e-mailed hedgemage this morning and asked if she could give me an update.
[20:10] <highvoltage> I'm tempted to just go ahead and put a new theme on our old site and update some content in the meantime that urgently needs updating
[20:11]  * stgraber waves
[20:11] <stgraber> sorry for being a bit late
[20:11] <highvoltage> glad you could make it :)
[20:11] <stgraber> highvoltage: for alpha, you can poke sladen about it (I can add them too if necessary)
[20:12] <highvoltage> stgraber: I'll poke sladen
[20:12] <dhillon-v10_> hi to all :) sorry guys I am a little late
[20:12] <bittin> hello
[20:12] <stgraber> highvoltage: slangasek I mean ;)
[20:12] <highvoltage> hi dhillon-v10, are you able to give us some update on the new site?
[20:12] <stgraber> highvoltage: tab-complete FAIL :)
[20:13] <bencrisford> haha, poor sladen :P
[20:13] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: hiiiiiii :) long time so see how's it going, well I guess now isn't the time to ask that, yeah I pinged hedgemage a while ago but she didn't reply back
[20:13] <dhillon-v10_> stgraber: hi :)
[20:14] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: well it's good to have you back again, done with all the exams?
[20:14] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah finally :) it was a pain but now i am done
[20:14] <dhillon-v10_> oh and everyone did an awesome job in the last cycle :D
[20:14] <highvoltage> excellent, glad to hear that
[20:14] <highvoltage> *nod*
[20:15] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: so yeah until the website work is fixed, anything else for me like packages and so on?
[20:15] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I said earlier that I poked hedgemage by e-mail this morning, so hopefully I'll hear from her this week still
[20:16] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: oh yes, certainly.
[20:16] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: alright then, yeah she's the one hosting it so I don't have much control over the site, besides modifying stuff on it
[20:17] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: if you want you could work on the edubuntu-artwork split-up so long? currently edubuntu-artwork is too big and contains the artwork, settings, and the live cd environment stuff.
[20:17] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: sure, what exactly do i need to do?
[20:17] <bencrisford> highvoltage: is there a todo page or something for packaging?
[20:18] <highvoltage> bencrisford: currently we have those 3 blueprint pages that basically summarizes what needs to be done
[20:18] <bencrisford> highvoltage: the ones listed on wiki.u.c/Edubuntu/evel/RoadMap
[20:18] <bencrisford> ?
[20:19] <highvoltage> yes, the ones on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Devel/RoadMap
[20:19] <bencrisford> okey doke
[20:20] <highvoltage> we could spend some time tomorrow splitting them up in to-do items, and then people could volunteer for some items if they like?
[20:21]  * bencrisford is free all day tommorrow :D
[20:21] <bencrisford> hi Lns :)
[20:21] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: sure that works :)
[20:21] <dhillon-v10_> Lns: hi :)
[20:21] <Lns> hi..wow we're still in meeting ?: )
[20:21] <Lns> i thought i missed it!
[20:21] <highvoltage> great, I'll split it up and send a message to the list so that everyone can take a look and sign up for something
[20:22] <bencrisford> awesome :)
[20:22] <bittin> Lns: yea its Edubuntu meeting
[20:24] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: there's one thing I have had in my mind for quiet some time now its regarding the documentation, can you remind me to talk about that near the end of the meeting
[20:25] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: you can go for it now, I don't have much else :)
[20:25] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I have lots of mixed feelings about documentation so some fresh input there would be good
[20:26] <dhillon-v10_> alright people so as we write docs. we want users to benifit from them, most people instead of using docs. use google instead, i want to have an online system, or something rather put into  yelp where people can send back reviews about the docs. now we will use google sidewiki spam algorithm to get rid of the spam and focus really on the issue where we know what the users really want
[20:28] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to yelp, is it hard to do mark-up for it? are there tools that for example, can export wiki pages to yelp pages?
[20:28] <dhillon-v10_> and not only that, we can also use a google custom search to see the websites that people most often go to to get this information, I am pretty sure there are some and then use info. from those sites to automatically update the docs. this right here is the key puch of the idea but is also tricky to implement :)
[20:28] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: I wrote a major part of docs. in kubuntu thanks to Richard in the last cycle, so I can take care of exporting stuff :)
[20:29]  * bencrisford loves docbook markup :)
[20:29] <dhillon-v10_> the best part would be the automatic updates that we can send out, this would involve some changes to yelp but i am pretty sure if we can work out a good plan, Shaun from gnome and others would like it as well
[20:30] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: indeed, it's also great for people that might not have connectivity
[20:30] <dhillon-v10_> and then we would almost never have to take care of updating the docs. because we would just need to pull the relavent information from the sites and then send it out like a sru but only for docs.
[20:31] <dhillon-v10_> so do you guys think that this is something that can be done? if so then I can start formally building up a blueprint and all that good stuff :)
[20:31] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I think your job should rather be around documentation for now rather than packaging :)
[20:31] <highvoltage> +1 from me!
[20:32] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: :) I can manage some packaging
[20:32] <bencrisford> +1
[20:32] <bencrisford> :)
[20:32] <dhillon-v10_> +1
[20:32] <dhillon-v10_> lolol
[20:32] <highvoltage> heh
[20:33] <highvoltage> at the beginning stage of that we should probably have a session to plan out what needs to be documented
[20:33] <highvoltage> sbalneav has ltsp covered quite well, so at least there's not a lot to write there
[20:34] <highvoltage> but there's quite a bit we have to do that's edubuntu-specific
[20:34] <highvoltage> we had a bit of confusion with live ltsp around release time, some people were a bit uncertain about some things and we lack decent documentation on it
[20:34] <bencrisford> the System> About Edubuntu stuff needs updating
[20:34] <bencrisford> it has the old artwork
[20:35] <bencrisford> and if you go into the source and look at the translations
[20:35] <highvoltage> would be *great* if we could have help built-in to the system for that
[20:35] <bencrisford> they still talk about hardy or something, iirc
[20:35] <highvoltage> bencrisford: good catch, is there a bug open for that?
[20:36] <bencrisford> highvoltage: not sure, i'll check
[20:37] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: alright will look into that as well :)
[20:37] <bencrisford> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/maverick/+source/edubuntu-docs
[20:37] <bencrisford> that the right place to be looking?
[20:37] <dhillon-v10_> bencrisford: no bugs there :)
[20:38] <highvoltage> bencrisford: it could be in edubuntu-artwork too if it's filed
[20:38] <bencrisford> theres a couple if you drop the maverick bit :)
[20:38] <highvoltage> (since that's the package it's ine )
[20:38] <bencrisford> highvoltage: for the artwork bug yeah :), but there is a load of problems in the translations of aboyt-edubuntu
[20:39] <bencrisford> pretty much all the translations still talk about hardy
[20:39] <bencrisford> it seems that way in the source anyway :)
[20:39] <bencrisford> might not be hardy :( I cant remember
[20:39] <highvoltage> it's not impossible
[20:39] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah if something like what I have in mind can be implemented, we can take over the world :) but seriously though that would be pretty awesome
[20:39] <bencrisford> bug 451569
[20:40] <dhillon-v10_> bencrisford: the importance of that needs to change :)
[20:40] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: we currently have no one looking at documentation, and it's a bit of a sore point, and there's a lot of work that has been done in the past (it's on the wiki currently) that is mostly unused and not very googlable
[20:40] <highvoltage> would be nice to have some direction again and have someone who can care about it
[20:41] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah well, now that I have time we can change that around :)
[20:41] <highvoltage> personally I'd love to but just don't have the time to do it properly
[20:41] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: awesome :)
[20:41] <bencrisford> doesnt seem to be a bug about the outdated logo in either -artwork or -docs
[20:41] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: np :) yeah I have to take some responsibility now that I am an edubuntu developer
[20:42] <bencrisford> i'll report one :D
[20:42] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: if you could help with those translation issues too that would be great
[20:43] <highvoltage> we shipped our ubiquity slideshow in english-only because we had some issues that we couldn't fix fast enough before release
[20:43] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: I will try but I don't know how that would work out, i only know 3 languages and I'll translate whatever I can in time
[20:43] <highvoltage> it would be really nice if we could get that translatable on LP and then get the translations in
[20:43] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: ahh that I can do :)
[20:44] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I didn't mean translating itself as the technical stuff in making it work :)
[20:44] <highvoltage> bittin: btw, is this the first Edubuntu meeting you're attending?
[20:44] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yeah, got it :) its been an issue on the launchpad dev. team as well to get a better way of translating things around :)
[20:45] <bencrisford> bug 588890 - should I add an also affects for -artwork?
[20:46] <highvoltage> bencrisford: it's probably fine with edubuntu-docs
[20:46] <bencrisford> highvoltage: ok, I guess realistically its gonna be someone in this meeting fixing it anyway :P so it doesnt really matter
[20:46] <dhillon-v10_> bencrisford: thanks :) I will write up a blueprint and then attach to that bug
[20:46] <bencrisford> ok
[20:48]  * highvoltage is catching up on taking notes
[20:49] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage, bencrisford: okay so for now I'll be working on docs. and merge some packages over to ubuntu then :)
[20:50] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: ok, but you'll start with the blueprint right?
[20:50] <highvoltage> (not that I want to add too much beaurocracy, etc, etc)
[20:51] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: yes today, after nap-time :)
[20:51] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: heh, great
[20:51] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: which is around 4 pm
[20:53] <highvoltage> if we can get the technical stuff that we planned right, get the website flowing again, have great built-in documentation available through yelp, get our teacher community well-established through the advocacy/ubuntu-education project then maverick is really going to be an exceptional release
[20:54] <highvoltage> imo the groundwork is already quite good and we don't really have much in the sense of blockers
[20:54] <highvoltage> (although I'll admit I'm slightly scared of the ubiquity changes we planned)
[20:55] <highvoltage> anything else before we adjourn?
[20:55] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: true, but that still is a lot to get through we'll have to work faster :)
[20:56] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: yep, I think in terms of documentation we'll probabably not have something extermely comprehensive yet for maverick, but if we can cover some basics that we get lots of questions and feedback about then that would already be a huge win!
[20:58] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: I'll try me best this time :) I really want to have maverick to be as Mark planned: perfect :)
[20:58] <dhillon-v10_> alright then time to head to bed, later people :D
[20:58] <bencrisford> dhillon-v10_: later ;)
[20:58] <alkisg> bb
[20:58] <highvoltage> dhillon-v10_: I think in your blueprint it might be a good idea to list some phases, plans it over 2 releases
[20:58] <highvoltage> but that's just details :)
[20:58] <highvoltage> have a nice nap dhillon-v10_
[20:59] <dhillon-v10_> highvoltage: thanks :)
[20:59] <dhillon-v10_> lol
[20:59] <highvoltage> and thanks Lns, stgraber, bencrisford, alkisg and bittin for attending!
[20:59] <highvoltage> meeting adjourned! *GONG*
[21:00] <bittin> no problem :p
[21:00] <bittin> even if i diden't say that much
[21:00] <bencrisford> bittin: :)