[01:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> hi oliver/someone who knows the edubuntu doco. is there instructions for setting up 32 bit clients on a 64 bit server?
[01:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> i just got an email saying the person cant find any, and asking how i did it
[01:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> unfortunately, i havent
[01:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> but apparently i'm hte only resource tehy could find
[01:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> so i'm kind of at a loss
[01:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> i emailed back to find out what they found to make them think i have clue ;)
[02:00] <sbalneav> I don't think it's documented, but a ltsp-build-client --arch i386 is how you do it, I beleive.
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> yes, its what i emailed to suggest they do.
[02:04] <Kamping_Kaiser> is there a proper place to document it? perhaps a line i can add to existing wiki page/s?
[02:05] <sbalneav> Should probably be added to the edubuntu handbool
[02:05] <sbalneav> err book
[02:06] <sbalneav> If you'd like to write up some info on it, and send it to me, I'll include it.
[02:07] <Kamping_Kaiser> sbalneav, ok. i'll try and locate the svn for the handbook itself (i dont want to do a full checkout, it'll take me hours)
[03:27] <nosrednaekim> ping ogra
[04:15] <ti-grrr> i loaded edubuntu 7.04 to replace a k12ltsp 5. can anyone help me figure out why it is overall so slow compared to k12ltsp?
[08:12] <jbarry> hi all, i am at loss as to how to let the client of LTSP access the internet, my host has two NICs, the host can access the internet thru eth0, the clients gets their IP thru the hosts' eth1. how will i let the clients access the net, thanks
[08:16] <jbarry> i was able to make the clients access the net if I setup eth0 as also the network that serves dhcp, but if I'm not mistaken the two NIC setup is the ideal setup?
[08:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> jbarry, so the server can access the net?
[08:19] <Kamping_Kaiser> 2 nic is probably better if you dont have a gateway of some sort... (note that i dont know the official edubuntu line on this)
[08:19] <jbarry> yes
[08:20] <jbarry> my current setup is like this
[08:20] <jbarry> from the dsl modem it is connected to the wireless router
[08:20] <jbarry> from the router it is connected to the host eth0
[08:21] <jbarry> then from the host eth1 goes to the switch
[08:21] <jbarry> is this correct?
[08:21] <jbarry> the clients can login, but cannot access the internet
[08:22] <jbarry> my for passing the client thru the host is to enable web filtering, is my setup correct?
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> hm. not done a 2 nic setup, but it sounds ok.
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> what ubuntu release are you using?
[08:23] <jbarry> hmmm i hope somebody can help me
[08:23] <jbarry> 7.04
[08:23] <Kamping_Kaiser> if its full ltsp, clients run on the server, so i'm a bit confused if they cant connect out. if its fat clients, then thats different
[08:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> could you run `route -n` on a client?
[08:24] <Kamping_Kaiser> and the server
[08:25] <jbarry> imusing LTSP with thin clients
[08:25] <jbarry> ill try that...
[08:26] <Kamping_Kaiser> and give us the output of both, should only be hal f a dozen lines each
[08:29] <jbarry> this is so embarrassing but when I tried it again (after restarting the client) it now works!!!, thanks for taking the time to help
[08:29] <jbarry> my next question is how do i enable webfiltering?
[08:30] <jbarry> is dansguardian good? just a program i found out in the web while researching
[08:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> dansguaridan rocks, if you have the resources to run squid
[08:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> i havent tried running it on the same system as the clients, but in theory it should work ok
[08:32] <jbarry> oh? how do you mean?
[08:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> bit of iptables magic and your set
[08:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> re clients or resources?
[08:33] <jbarry> I meant to install it in the same hardware as the host, I'm running on AMD athlon x2 with 2 gig of RAM for about 30 clients
[08:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> plenty of resources
[08:35] <jbarry> too bad I was not successful in implementing the raid0 thing, my grub would not install
[08:35] <Kamping_Kaiser> never tried software raid myself
[08:36] <jbarry> actually this is my second install, yesterday i was able to install using the single network card setup but it keeps on freezing up
[08:36] <jbarry> so I reintalled using the two NIC setup hopefully it will work better this time
[08:37] <jbarry> it just freezes when the clients are loading flash based web sites
[08:37] <Kamping_Kaiser> amd64?
[08:37] <jbarry> no i am using the 386 install
[08:38] <Kamping_Kaiser> shrug
[08:39] <jbarry> hmmmm if it happens again how will i go about inspecting it? where will i start looking for the problem?
[08:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> anyway. if you have 2 nics you should be able to say anything leaving <internet nic> to port 80 gets redirected to 8080 (dansguardian)
[08:39] <Kamping_Kaiser> does it freeze the whole system?
[08:40] <Kamping_Kaiser> gdb is probably the answer eitehr way, but hard system crashes are a pita
[08:40] <jbarry> i was pinging the router yesterday then the clients frozed the ping msg was something about cache being full
[08:40] <jbarry> all the clients are frozen but the host cannot access the net either
[08:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> i dont know anything about flash
[08:41] <Kamping_Kaiser> past hating it
[08:43] <jbarry> our major patrons would be teens so it is expected that they will access flash based sites, and flash based gaming sites.
[08:44] <alex_> hi is there a french communaute of edubuntu ?
[08:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> i'm going to (probalby harshly) say "glad thats not my problem" - but hang around, i'm sure someone here would be willing to have it tehir problem
[08:44] <Kamping_Kaiser> or try the list
[08:45] <jbarry> hehehe, ok...
[08:47] <jbarry> mmmm... does any body here know how to share plugins of firefox? I want to install the adblockplus plugin but i found out that I need to install it to every user?
[08:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> do that stuff in your proxy, not your client browsers
[08:48] <Kamping_Kaiser> thats what the proxys for :)
[08:48] <jbarry> hmmmm not so knowlegable in proxys
[08:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> if your setting up dansguardian, thats what your setting up - a proxy
[08:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> and i can help you more or less with the proxy setup
[08:49] <jbarry> yeah that is what i understand but what does it have to do with plugins?
[08:49] <Kamping_Kaiser> do the ad filtering in the proxy
[08:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> so you dont need the plugin...
[08:50] <jbarry> hmmmm....
[08:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> also look at adzapper
[08:50] <jbarry> so i will have to experment with dansguardian sooner than expected
[08:50] <Kamping_Kaiser> squid+dansguardian+adzapper
[08:51] <Kamping_Kaiser> pretty decent combo
[08:51] <jbarry> so to use dansguardian i need to first install squid? do i also need to configure that?
[08:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> if you install dansguardian (or adzapper) it will install squid automatically.
[08:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> but yes, you have to configure it
[08:52] <Kamping_Kaiser> i dont know whats in feisty, but its probably squid 2.6, which works slightly differently to 2.whatever i'm used to
[08:53] <alex_> glad to see that this list is alive
[08:53] <jbarry> hmmm i will need to update my machine first since its a fresh install there are a lot of packages that have newer versions
[08:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> alex_, re your question, i couldnt say
[08:53] <Kamping_Kaiser> but there is ubuntu-fr
[08:54] <alex_> I am to install edubuntu in a class room with about 12 Windows based computer, I will use samba to make them share a disk of the machine I want to install edubuntu, any suggestion ?
[08:54] <Kamping_Kaiser> alex_, sugestions about what specifically? :)
[08:55] <jbarry> isn't samba sharing in edubuntu straight forward just right click then share
[08:56] <alex_> I don't know :) maybe it is not a good idea to install only one edubuntu, maybe it is not a good idea to use samba to make it communicate with the windows computer. I have no idea how the teachers will react, so I will start with one machine and see how it goes
[08:58] <jbarry> hope you have a positive experience!!! good luck
[08:59] <alex_> thanks
[09:05] <Kamping_Kaiser> let us know how you go
[09:59] <jbarry> hi all, just asking if any of you experienced this.... when i plug in a usb disk in the host all the clients will try to access it and as a result a message will appear that they cannot access it, and a blank nautilus window will appear
[10:04] <LaserJock> !seen RichEd
[10:04] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about seen riched - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[10:06] <RichEd> mr laser fellow ... look this way
[10:06] <RichEd> LaserJock ^
[10:07] <LaserJock> wahoo
[10:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> lol
[10:10] <RichEd> Kamping_Kaiser: make it back safely, with your head the normal size ?
[10:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> RichEd, safely yes, head is probably the same size - ego is unusaly inflated atm (should start goign down soon though)
[10:11] <Kamping_Kaiser> if i dont fall chronically ill in the nexdt few days i made it out with no malaria too
[10:12] <Kamping_Kaiser> just typing up notes from the trip
[10:13] <Kamping_Kaiser> why didnt i type tehm directly :S >.<
[02:07] <Nubae> hi, very quick question, I'm moving /home to its own partition on a ltsp system for more space... does this affect the chroot environment in any way?
[02:08] <Kamping_Kaiser> no
[02:08] <Nubae> thanks kaiser... dont need to move anything from within the chroot environment right?
[02:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, no
[02:09] <Nubae> k...
[02:09] <Nubae> thankyou
[02:09] <Kamping_Kaiser> np. hope it helps
[02:32] <Nubae> kaiser... I get messages when I'm trying to copy the dir over about /home/media and /home/tmp (permission denied), should I just ignore this?
[02:32] <Nubae> I'm doing this from a thin terminal
[02:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> Nubae, what do you have in /home/?
[02:32] <Kamping_Kaiser> are you moving the home from inside an ltsp chroot?
[02:33] <Kamping_Kaiser> is this thin or fat client?
[02:33] <Nubae> just the user dirs and a couple files in the sysadmin dir
[02:33] <Nubae> thin client
[02:33] <Nubae> with disks and such though
[02:33] <Nubae> the messages are pertaining to the local devs
[02:34] <Kamping_Kaiser> not dealt with local drives. it seems from your comment that theres "wierd stuff" happening with they get used
[02:34] <Nubae> yeah, well It sort of makes sense as it mounts these systems locally, but they are in fact not really in /home
[02:35] <Nubae> well, I'll try it and see what happens
[02:39] <Nubae> k, here goes testing... :-)
[02:44] <Nubae> so far so good, except the new disk is mounted under /media/disk too
[03:01] <nosrednaekim> hello, If I wanted to set up two thin clients, can I only download the server CD?
[03:01] <nosrednaekim> or rather, one server and one thin client
[03:03] <nosrednaekim> do I need the desktop CD if i'm not going to be wanting to run off the liveCD?
[03:06] <sbalneav> Morning all
[03:08] <nosrednaekim> morn'
[03:10] <sbalneav> ogra: Hey, I got a another debdiff here for nbd-server when you got a sec.  We're not including the nbd-server(5) manual page.
[03:11] <nosrednaekim>  hello, If I wanted to set up two thin clients, can I only download the server CD?
[03:11] <nosrednaekim> or rather, one server and one thin client
[03:12] <sbalneav> Yes, the server cd will give you the OS
[03:12] <sbalneav> If you want the educational applications, you'll need the addon cd,
[03:14] <nosrednaekim> no... I just want the base stuff. thanks!
[03:28] <Nubae> does ltsp take into account quota? should I install this seperately if I want to use it for the /home dir?
[03:30] <sbalneav> Nubae: LTSP has nothing to do with quota's.  That's a completely separate system.  Yes, if you need disk space quota's then install the quota system.
[03:30] <ogra> sbalneav, thats fine, could you uncommit your last commit and make sure to have the translations in a separate commit
[03:30] <ogra> its a bit messy atm, seems you merged a ton of .po files from vagrant you didnt commit
[03:31] <sbalneav> Oh, ok, hold on...
[03:31] <sbalneav> I was wondering what those were, lol
[03:31] <ogra> sbalneav, i'm a bit in and out today (need to get susies car to the tech inspection this evening)
[03:32] <ogra> if you cant revert it, i'll live with it, but keep an eye on translations in the future if you merge from vagrant ;)
[03:32] <sbalneav> Got a half a second to walk me through this right now?
[03:33] <sbalneav> so that's a bzr revert?
[03:33] <sbalneav> Morning!  BTW :)
[03:33] <sbalneav> !pastebin
[03:33] <ubotu> pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
[03:34] <ogra> uncommit would be one ...
[03:35] <ogra> revert is for files that arent commited
[03:35] <sbalneav> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35255/
[03:35] <ogra> so first you bzr uncommit (it will ask yopu if you really want to do that)
[03:35] <ogra> then you revert the changes to ltsp-update-image (they are smaller)
[03:36] <ogra> commit the translation changes with a proper commit message ....
[03:36] <ogra> add your changes to ltsp-update-image back and commit these on their own
[03:36] <ogra> isnt tehre a nbd-server.manpages ?
[03:37] <sbalneav> right, nbd-server.1, but the manpage for the config file format's in nbd-server.5, which isn't being included in the package.
[03:37] <ogra> hmm, actually not
[03:37] <ogra> ok
[03:37] <ogra> no, i meant a .manpages file in the debian dir :)
[03:38] <sbalneav> Oh, while I'm at it, want me to change the "exit" to a "umount" ? :)
[03:38] <ogra> yeah, please
[03:38] <ogra> no need to bother the user with any action here :)
[03:40] <ogra> sbalneav, the proper way to add a manpage would be to have debian/nbd-server.manpages and add the path to the manpage there ... then make sure debian/rules calls dh_installman -a
[03:40] <sbalneav> oh, ok, I just copied what was there for .1
[03:40] <ogra> so if someone decides that dh_installman should rather build a nbd-server-manpages package he can just modify the functions, not the package
[03:41] <sbalneav> OK, would you like me to do that then?
[03:41] <ogra> sure :)
[03:42] <sbalneav> ok, could you do me a quick favor? I forgot to copy off the ltsp-update-image, and It's reverted back to before I made the change, could you quiclky past the chroot check for me? :)
[03:43] <sbalneav> paste, sorry
[03:43] <ogra> http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/35257/
[03:43] <ogra> voila
[03:45] <sbalneav> Can we do an unmount CHROOT/proc?  Or would we have to do a chroot umount /proc?
[03:45] <ogra> btw, mvo contributed to UbuntuWomen last wednesday with a little girl :)
[03:45] <ogra> umount CHROOT/proc should suffice
[03:45] <sbalneav> Oh, cool!
[03:47] <sbalneav> ok, so now bzr status tells me I've got the .po's, and ltsp-update-image
[03:47] <sbalneav> how do I commit the one, and not the other?
[03:48] <ogra> meh
[03:48] <ogra> revert ltsp-update-image first
[03:48] <ogra> then commit the .po stiuff
[03:48] <ogra> then add your ltsp-update-image changes back and commit them separately
[03:49] <ogra> i'm sure you can do freaky stuff woith bzr shelf, but since i never use it ...
[03:49] <ogra> probably ask vagrant for a better way ;)
[03:49] <sbalneav> aahhhh
[03:49] <sbalneav> ok
[03:49] <sbalneav> duh
[03:49] <sbalneav> copying ltsp-update-image this time
[03:50] <ogra> yeah
[03:52] <sbalneav> pushing
[03:54] <sbalneav> So what lines go in nbd-server.manpages?  usr/share/man/man1/nbd-server.1, etc?
[03:54] <ogra> the ldm32 translation stuff isnt kosher yet btw ... we'll need to look into it ... and the greeter has also some strings and no translation at all yet
[03:54] <sbalneav> yeah, I threw that in there for UVF, but knew it wasn't correct.
[03:55] <ogra> since they sit in the root of the sourcedir it should just be nbd-server.1 and nbd-server.5 (no path it seems)=
[03:55] <sbalneav> but figured you and I could sit down for an hour and squash that bug :)
[03:55] <sbalneav> oh, ok
[03:55] <sbalneav> and then remove the reference to .1 from the .install file, I'm assuming?
[03:56] <ogra> yeah
[03:56] <ogra> and make sure dh_installman is called
[03:56] <ogra> (see ltsp's debian/rules for reference)
[03:56] <sbalneav> okie
[03:57] <sbalneav> oop
[03:57] <sbalneav> oin$ bzr commit -m "Added check for /proc being mounted in chroot"
[03:57] <sbalneav> modified server/ltsp-update-image
[03:57] <sbalneav> Committed revision 441.
[03:57] <sbalneav> oin$ bzr push
[03:57] <sbalneav> Using saved location<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:57] <sbalneav> bzr: ERROR: These branches have diverged.  Try using "merge" and then "push".
[03:57] <ogra> merge then :)
[03:57] <sbalneav> Merge with myself?
[03:58] <sbalneav> Won't that screw up the .po stuff again?
[03:58] <ogra> no idea, try itr (you can uncommit and revert all the time)
[04:01] <sbalneav> ok, there we go
[04:10] <sbalneav> Oh, crumb
[04:10] <sbalneav> I just remembered, I'm doing all this ruddy nbd-server stuff, and I'm running feisty here at work.
[04:11] <sbalneav> Sigh, time to download the tribe and upgrade :)
[06:30] <cberlo> Hi folks.  Hopefully this is a straightforward question, but I just can't seem to find it through google, etc.  Is there a simple way to connect to LDM from a Windows or Linux desktop, without net-booting?
[06:33] <sbalneav> cberlo: Well, there's a bunch of different ways...
[06:33] <cberlo> sbalneav: I'm all ears!  :)
[06:33] <sbalneav> Essentially, all ldm does is do an ssh login into the server, then start gnome-session
[06:33] <sbalneav> if you're using ssh tunneling, it tunnels the graphics back through that
[06:34] <cberlo> sbalneav: Okay, so if I could fire up Xnest and have an ssh session point into that, that should do it?
[06:34] <sbalneav> if you're using LDM_DIRECTX, then you just do a DISPLAY=192.168.0.whatever:6 gnome-session
[06:34] <sbalneav> Sure.
[06:34] <sbalneav> or, vnc viewe
[06:34] <cberlo> Sorry, what's LDM_DIRECTX?
[06:35] <sbalneav> Basically, just the choice between tunnelling the X through ssh, or just having it come back via unencrypted TCP, as usual.
[06:36] <cberlo> Ah, okay.  I'd like to keep it encrypted.  So...  how can I do this?
[06:38] <sbalneav> You're wanting to start this under xnest?
[06:38] <cberlo> Yeah, I think that would be most convenient for me.  Then I can figure out how to do it from a Windows workstation, should the need ever arise.
[06:40] <sbalneav> Are you wanting to run ldm itself, or just get a session started to a remote machine.
[06:41] <cberlo> sbalneav: Well, if I can run LDM itself, that would be best for testing; if that's too tricky then just as one user at a time should be fine.
[06:41] <cberlo> sbalneav: I'm working on an LTSP implementation and I'm not at the console, so I can't see what effect the scripts I'm writing are having on the users...  (not in production yet, thankfully!)
[06:41] <sbalneav> well, ultimately, you just want to do an "ssh user@server /etc/X11/Xsession"
[06:42] <sbalneav> That won't get you any sound or localdev stuff, but the display will work.
[06:42] <cberlo> sbalneav: How do I get that to pipe into an Xnest?
[06:43] <sbalneav> Don't know, off the top of my head.  Answer is left as an exercise to the reader :)
[06:43] <cberlo> LOL
[06:43] <cberlo> Fair enough.
[06:59] <cberlo> Alright -- I can't seem to get access control for Xnest; I start Xnest with "Xnest :1 &", then attempt "xhost +" (just for testing) and it says I don't have access...
[08:05] <Access> hello all
[08:05] <Access> Anyone free at all to help a n00b? :)
[08:06] <Access> Well in any case I'll ask and maybe if someone knows (or is awake) can chime in :D
[08:06] <Access> Am trying to display 1280x1024. Tried forcing it by adding the mode "1280x1024" in xorg.conf however it didnt work and I still sit on 1024x768 (although 1280x768 did work, but thats not helpful :P). I googled my Auriga ColorPro 19D and it seems no one has the Vertical and Horitzonal numbers.
[08:07] <Access> Seems my GeForce 7800 GS is identified correctly though and the driver was installed via the "Restricted Driver Manager" in Ubuntu successfully.
[08:09] <LaserJock> ogra: ping ping pingiloo
[08:11] <sbalneav> LaserJock: Hey, started working on docs today.
[08:12] <sbalneav> Should I be committing to the trunk?  Or is there a branch of the docs specifically for gutsy?
[08:13] <LaserJock> usually we branch at string freeze, so go for trunk
[08:13] <sbalneav> ok
[08:13] <sbalneav> When's string freeze?
[08:13] <sbalneav> !schedule
[08:13] <ubotu> Ubuntu releases a new version every 6 months. Each version is supported for 18 months to 5 years. More info at http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/releases & http://wiki.ubuntu.com/TimeBasedReleases
[08:13] <LaserJock> 13th
[08:13] <LaserJock> of Sept.
[08:13] <sbalneav> Ok, bit of time yet.
[08:14] <sbalneav> If I haul *ss, I can get the bulk of the doc done I want before then.
[08:14] <sbalneav> err
[08:14] <sbalneav> doc i want done.
[08:14] <sbalneav> Man, with my english, maybe I shouldn't be writing docs :)
[08:15] <sbalneav> Can't code so good, neither.
[08:15] <sbalneav> Really, don't know why you people keep me around.
[08:15] <sbalneav> Sure ain't for my looks :)
[08:15] <LaserJock> it's for the food critiques
[08:15] <sbalneav> Ah
[08:15] <sbalneav> Excellent.
[08:15] <LaserJock> I've learned
[08:16] <LaserJock> "go where we go, say what we say"
[08:16] <sbalneav> I'm the Paul Prudhomme of the Linux set :)
[09:23] <LaserJock> moquist: ping ping ring ring
[09:24] <moquist> pongo
[09:24] <moquist> LaserJock: pong
[10:00] <LaserJock> moquist: your moodle package
[10:01] <LaserJock> moquist: heard anything?
[10:07] <cliebow> moquist:!!!Ydwoh
[10:11] <cliebow> LaserJock: let uid +=1....i guess let no workee in ubuntu??
[10:12] <LaserJock> cliebow: ?
[10:13] <cliebow> LaserJock, forget it..just babbling
[10:15] <cliebow> must be heat stroke today..i'm packing it in..
[10:16] <LaserJock> heh
[10:18] <cliebow> ahhhhh..better..
[10:26] <cliebow> nighto...
[10:39] <moquist> LaserJock: hey
[10:39] <moquist> LaserJock: my test system died last week. I've been rebuilding it. I will test it now.
[10:39] <moquist> i.e., test my test system.
[10:40] <moquist> if it's OK, I can probably work on this tomorrow. Hopefully the postgresql support is going to be easy to add. The only barrier is that I'm much less familiar with it than mysql. *shrug*
[10:40] <LaserJock> we're going to need a working package ASAP
[10:41] <LaserJock> I believe we need to get a UVF/FF exception already at this point
[10:41] <moquist> Has anyone looked at what I have in REVU?
[10:41] <LaserJock> if we can get it in Main we can work on it more if there are some bugs
[10:41] <LaserJock> but we need a package that'll make it into Main first
[10:42] <LaserJock> I haven't yet, but I can take a look at it today if you want
[10:42] <LaserJock> I honestly don't know if I have a ton of advice
[10:42] <moquist> That would be great; thanks.
[10:42] <moquist> np
[10:42] <moquist> You have lots more than *I* do. :)
[10:42] <LaserJock> I don't work a lot with dbs but I'll give it a go
[10:43] <moquist> The only real changes are in postinst.
[10:43] <moquist> Just glancing over that (and installing the package to make sure it's OK) is probably good.
[10:43] <LaserJock> is this a new upstream release? or did you just take the package that was already in Universe?
[10:44] <moquist> I took the package from Universe.
[10:44] <moquist> I've asked the upstream maintainer about taking in my wwwconfig-less changes, but he didn't write back.
[10:44] <moquist> I haven't pinged again.
[10:44] <LaserJock> well, we're out of time for that
[10:45] <LaserJock> we can just do it in Ubuntu now
[10:45] <LaserJock> and let Debian catch up after release
[10:45] <moquist> Well, it would still be good to push the changes upstream, even if that isn't of immediate importance.
[10:45] <LaserJock> sure
[10:45] <LaserJock> we're just on a pretty tight schedule now
[10:46] <LaserJock> we need to get testing in on moodle
[10:46] <LaserJock> just dropping it on the CD last minute isn't a good idea
[10:46] <moquist> heh - NO.
[10:46] <LaserJock> thought *buntu has done stuff like that quite a bit
[10:46] <moquist> really? Hrm. :(
[10:57] <moquist> LaserJock: school's starting up here and I just started an additional job, so that's why I don't have this all done yet. :(
[10:58] <LaserJock> moquist: well, I'm pretty busy too
[10:58] <LaserJock> moquist: but I'll try to help as much as I can
[10:58] <LaserJock> moquist: I'm pretty confident we can nock something out that'll work
[10:58] <moquist> LaserJock: I wasn't trying to complain or make anybody else do more work. I was just giving excuses. :-)
[11:00] <LaserJock> sure, I know ;-)
[11:16] <sbalneav> OK, I'll be on later tonight. See you all then.


[13:37] <Brainstorm> Updates for Bangladesh: +698 cases (now 780857), +32 deaths (now 12181) since a day ago


[00:23] <cmaloney> Evening
[03:27] <cmaloney> jrwren: https://circleofdust.bandcamp.com/album/circle-of-dust-remastered-deluxe-edition
[12:54] <jrwren> cmaloney: anygood?
[12:56] <cmaloney> jrwren: I've had two versions of this album
[12:56] <cmaloney> this version is quite good
[12:57] <cmaloney> thinking about picking it up
[13:01] <cmaloney> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3135657
[13:01] <cmaloney> Apparently the Windows Store is open, even when you tell it to bugger off
[13:09] <jrwren> Windows 10 is just terrible. I'm pretty sorry I upgraded from 7 to it.
[13:09] <jrwren> Windows and OSX are getting so bad that I'm pretty sure I'll be all linux within 5 years.
[13:14] <cmaloney> yay!
[13:15] <cmaloney> OSX needs Jobs
[13:15] <cmaloney> I like Tim Cook but they've really lost the plot
[13:15] <cmaloney> even the faithful I listen to seem to have wavered
[13:17] <jrwren> I think the things that annoy me about OSX happened under Jobs.
[13:17] <cmaloney> Which things?
[13:17] <jrwren> getting rid of Samba for their own, poor, smb client and retiring the quicktime library are key.
[13:17] <jrwren> did you know that with the move from QuickTime to CoreVideo, OSX has no codec plugin mechanism?!?
[13:18] <jrwren> its like going back to 1994
[13:18] <cmaloney> No, I didn't.
[13:18] <cmaloney> So there's no easy way to implement codecs under OSX?
[13:18] <jrwren> not AFAICT
[13:19] <jrwren> You can use VLC. You can use MPV (an mplayer gui).  But those use their entire own stacks. Not the system video rendering stack.
[13:19] <cmaloney> Meh, that doesn't surprise me
[13:20] <cmaloney> VLC / mplayer tend to bring their own stack anyway
[13:20] <jrwren> right.
[13:20] <jrwren> but its sooo bad.
[13:20] <cmaloney> Honestly Quicktime was due for a curb-kicking
[13:21] <jrwren> Finder's QuickLook feature is so damn good, I want it for other gui filemanagers, but they are crippling the video player of QuickLook because of the codec limits
[13:21]  * jrwren points to "never rewrite" as a value.
[13:21] <jrwren> http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html  ;]
[13:22] <cmaloney> Something tells me part of the reason for Quicktime getting sunned-down is security
[13:22] <cmaloney> and that it doesn't work well under Quicktime
[13:23] <cmaloney> iOS, rather
[13:23] <cmaloney> for the same reasons that Flash sucks
[13:23] <jrwren> ios never had quicktime afaik.  it always had (and still has) very limited codec support.
[13:23] <jrwren> in teh case of both windows and osx, the regression to the limitations of a handheld device is part of my gripe.
[13:24] <jrwren> windows at least has cortana.  why in the world doesn't osx have siri? its nonsensical.
[13:25] <jrwren> I feel like there was a brief period where windows and osx were not free, but were open enough to be useful and stable enough to be useful, and that period is closing quickly. Maybe already closed.
[13:25] <cmaloney> Not sure. Siri under OSX would be kind of sweet
[13:25] <cmaloney> Yeah
[13:26] <cmaloney> Apple is under so much pressure to make money
[13:26] <cmaloney> and I'm sure Microsoft is making stupid decisions for revenue
[13:26] <jrwren> sure, NOW they are, but they could have added siri to OSX at any time when they were in the money hurricane.
[13:27] <jrwren> i'm amazed MSFT still has its high revenue. They have done a great job pivoting to azure.
[13:27] <jrwren> I wonder how much they paid for Xamarin. I can't imagine it was cheap.
[13:27] <cmaloney> 3.50
[13:27] <cmaloney> ;)
[13:28] <cmaloney> I'll be surprised if Miguel will still work for Microsoft in a year
[13:28] <jrwren> same here, but his handcufs in the contract may be more like 3 years.
[13:28] <jrwren> same with Nat.
[13:29] <jrwren> I'm more interested in what they do next.
[13:29] <jrwren> but tehn again, they both stayed at Novel for a rather long time and novel wasn't giving them much in the way of resources, so who knows.
[13:29] <jrwren> They might be there for 10 yrs.
[13:30] <cmaloney> Yeah
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> i'm back
[14:25] <cmaloney> Welcome back
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> A/C maintenance in the server room last night
[14:25] <cmaloney> Where were you?
[14:25] <cmaloney> Lovely.
[14:25] <mrgoodcat> server downtime
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> my nemesis
[14:26] <cmaloney> mass hysteria
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> srsly tho
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> like 40 emails from people wondering what was going on
[14:26] <mrgoodcat> this has been planned for months
[14:26] <jrwren> someone communicated the plan poorly
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> its not my problem
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> i'm just an alumni now
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> actually alumnus is the singular, and idk if i can call myself that
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> having never graduated
[14:27] <mrgoodcat> but w/e
[14:28] <mrgoodcat> this is a wmu computer club server not a work server
[14:28] <jrwren> whoa, that takes me back.
[14:28] <mrgoodcat> to what?
[14:29] <mrgoodcat> did you go to wmu?
[14:30] <jrwren> no, but I knew some people there 15-20yrs ago
[14:30] <mrgoodcat> ah
[14:31] <jrwren> good LUG IIRC
[14:31] <mrgoodcat> some people that were there 15-20 years ago are actually still here
[14:31] <mrgoodcat> we have a lot of alumni members
[14:31] <jrwren> yeah, I could see Wes still being involved, maybe.
[14:31] <mrgoodcat> any idea what his handle would be?
[14:31] <mrgoodcat> idk real names for some people
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> haha
[14:32] <jrwren> no idea.
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> don weber was a member 30 ish years ago probably
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> now he's the technology directory for the college of arts and sciences here
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> director
[14:32] <mrgoodcat> not directory
[14:32] <jrwren> wow, he's seen a lot.
[14:33] <mrgoodcat> he was one of the super early members
[14:34] <mrgoodcat> my irc logs only go back to 2005-11-04 05:44:33 so i can't verify people i don't know that are older than that
[14:34] <cmaloney> Yow.
[14:34] <mrgoodcat> yea its quite a history
[14:35] <mrgoodcat> as of right now i have 6400093 lines of logs
[14:36] <jrwren> you keep 'em uncompressed? I recently decided to compress old text irc logs. Some were rather large.
[14:36] <jrwren> I really should point logrotate at them, but that requires more work ;]
[14:36] <cmaloney> heh
[14:37] <mrgoodcat> postgres db
[14:37] <mrgoodcat> i also have fairly extensive client txt logs
[14:37] <jrwren> oh nice.
[14:37] <jrwren> but then, that is even larger disk footprint ;]
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> yea
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> space isn't such an issue
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> 224M of text logs
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> idk how much the pg db is taking up
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> 6748234 lines of text logs from client logging
[14:38] <mrgoodcat> i IRC a lot
[14:39] <mrgoodcat> 167 logged channels
[14:39] <jrwren> i was over GB in text log, hence my desire to compress.
[14:39] <jrwren> that is lot of channels.
[14:40] <mrgoodcat> 3167MB pg database
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> including indexes and such
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> exactly 0 seconds spent optimizing indexes and whatnot so don't judge
[14:41] <mrgoodcat> we have various services for querying the logs so a DB makes sense for that
[14:44] <cmaloney> never be ashamed for using a database
[14:44] <cmaloney>  that's what they're there for
[14:45] <jrwren> yeah, HUGE
[14:46] <jrwren> and yes, what cmaloney said.
[14:46] <jrwren> its classic time/space tradeoff.  my grep of xv compresses text is going to be insanely slower than your search of that pgsql database. especially if you tsearch.
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> just looked. there is actually only 1 index and its on the autoincrement id column
[14:48] <jrwren> oh, in that case, I'm faster :p
[14:48] <mrgoodcat> haha
[14:48] <jrwren> assuming I have the CPU to spare for xv decompress. and xv is SLOW. especially on this old E8500
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> still have 2.5T of unused space so i'm not too worried about disk usage
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> actually thats the home partition
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> root partition only has 13G left
[14:49] <mrgoodcat> still not worried though
[14:50] <jrwren> wow, that is a lot of free space.
[14:50] <mrgoodcat> 3.3T total
[14:50] <mrgoodcat> so wev
[14:50] <mrgoodcat> used almost 1
[14:50] <mrgoodcat> damn hands and the typing
[14:50] <jrwren> one of the reasons space became a concern for me is that I moved my homedir to SSD, so smaller ;]
[14:51] <mrgoodcat> our homedir is shared with a pretty large number of accounts
[14:51] <jrwren> oh, this is my home server
[14:51] <mrgoodcat> ls -l /home/members | wc -l
[14:51] <mrgoodcat> 237
[14:52] <mrgoodcat> so that is active members since we migrated from the old server which was.... 2 years ago?
[14:55] <cmaloney> 237 users on a university server that isn't for a class?
[14:55] <cmaloney> That's amazing.
[14:55] <cmaloney> (esp. since it's no longer the 1990s)
[15:06] <mrgoodcat> yea its a lot
[15:07] <jrwren> what is the appeal these days?  free fast hosting?
[15:07] <mrgoodcat> nerd cred
[15:07] <mrgoodcat> mostly
[15:07] <mrgoodcat> we use it to communicate using IRC
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> most people have a tmux/screen session on the server at all times
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> keeping in contact en masse
[15:08] <mrgoodcat> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[15:09] <jrwren> its cool. I'm more curious, because I think I gave up on that sort of thing in my life.
[15:09] <jrwren> I actually do have such a shared host with a friend, but we barely use it.
[15:11] <cmaloney> Likely Usenet access. ;)
[15:13] <jrwren> lol!
[15:13] <jrwren> does wmu provide that?
[15:13] <jrwren> i thought universities stopped that a decade ago.
[15:22] <mrgoodcat> they do not provide usenet access
[15:23] <cmaloney> Then why are they on the internet?
[15:23] <cmaloney> bah
[15:23] <cmaloney> ;)
[15:24] <mrgoodcat> haha
[16:25] <jrwren> http://post.oreilly.com/form/oreilly/viewhtml/9z1zv3eqlg8lq097tjlsbv02hnton7hkhmrc14kufoo?imm_mid=0e2ff2&cmp=em-na-na-na-pr_humble_hacking_bundle
[18:16] <greg-g> people still like Slipknot?
[18:17] <greg-g> (non sequitor, based on a huge patch on the back of this otherwise punk rock looking kid at the coffee shop)
[18:19] <jrwren> lol.
[18:19] <jrwren> maybe its style-only, like all the people who wear ramones tshirts but don't actuall listen to the ramones
[18:19] <greg-g> the girl he was with was definitely punk rock stylish
[18:37] <cmaloney> greg-g: Slipknot is the Slayer for the Gen Y folks