[06:36] <lordievader> Good morning
[09:46] <lordievader> \o/ added an ssd to my server :D
[10:14] <immu> lordievader, cool
[10:45] <dubs286> having an issue installing any packages. where can i view the apt log to see what the issue is?
[10:59] <lordievader> immu: Indeed, had it laying around from my previous laptop, finally got round to adding it to that box.
[12:00] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[12:01] <immu> hi
[12:06] <lordievader> Morning BluesKaj
[12:06] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[12:06] <BluesKaj> Hey lordievader, fine here, and you?
[12:07] <lordievader> Doing good here too, added an ssd to my server :)
[12:17] <lordievader> What is in store for today?
[12:41] <immu> brb
[17:28] <immu> hi
[18:39] <Bashing-om> !esm
[18:39] <ubot5`> Canonical offers paid extended security support for 12.04 through the Ubuntu Advantage program. For more information, see https://ubuntu.com/esm . ESM is not an Ubuntu community offering; please direct questions about it to Canonical directly.
[19:02] <immu> !esm
[19:02] <ubot5`> Canonical offers paid extended security support for 12.04 through the Ubuntu Advantage program. For more information, see https://ubuntu.com/esm . ESM is not an Ubuntu community offering; please direct questions about it to Canonical directly.
[19:03] <immu> hmm
[19:03] <immu> Bashing-om, what is the level of Optimus technology support in ubuntu?
[19:44] <BluesKaj> !optimus
[19:44] <ubot5`> Ubuntu uses nvidia-prime to support optimus videocards.
[20:25] <immu> ok


[00:00] <mup> Bug #1696276 changed: Comissioning scripts should trigger a hardware reinventory <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696276>
[00:15] <mup> Bug #1696276 opened: Comissioning scripts should trigger a hardware reinventory <MAAS:Incomplete> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696276>
[00:54] <mup> Bug #1696285 opened: Machines that fail hardware testing need to be marked broken before they can be recommissioned <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696285>
[01:09] <mup> Bug #1696285 changed: Machines that fail hardware testing need to be marked broken before they can be recommissioned <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696285>
[01:15] <mup> Bug #1696285 opened: Machines that fail hardware testing need to be marked broken before they can be recommissioned <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696285>
[05:43] <cabinet> I'm having some problems getting a node to come up over PXE -- cloud-init says it can't find it's data source. I haven't worked with maas or cloud-init before, but I was wondering if someone could point me at either a way to log into the box to try to debug it from there, or a set of troubleshooting steps to try around this problem
[05:43] <cabinet> I've looked through the documentation I could find, and haven't turned up anything that's helped
[07:05] <cabinet> What about just pointing me at how I can edit the image that is pushed over and executed? I can't find any 'cloudinit' files on the maas machine
[10:46] <mup> Bug # changed: 1416417, 1436531, 1438091, 1451580, 1468757, 1469663, 1506516, 1506517, 1506518, 1506519, 1506520, 1506523, 1506524, 1506525, 1506528, 1506529, 1512297, 1513392, 1513507, 1536092, 1536094, 1536097, 1536099, 1536101, 1536147
[11:07] <mup> Bug # changed: 1536102, 1536104, 1536106, 1536109, 1536122, 1536123, 1536125, 1536132, 1536137, 1536139, 1536142, 1536144, 1536145, 1536146, 1536148, 1536153, 1536157
[11:40] <mup> Bug #1536131 changed: [Node Networking] Change table widths <design> <ui> <MAAS:Invalid by ricgard> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1536131>
[14:50] <roaksoax> cabinet: /etc/maas/rackd.conf
[14:50] <roaksoax> cabinet: maas_url, ensure it is pointint to an IP the machines can communicate to
[16:22] <mup> Bug #1696485 opened: MAAS dhcp does not offer up multiple domains to search <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 2.2:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696485>
[16:28] <mup> Bug #1696485 changed: MAAS dhcp does not offer up multiple domains to search <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 2.2:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696485>
[16:37] <mup> Bug #1696485 opened: MAAS dhcp does not offer up multiple domains to search <MAAS:Triaged> <MAAS 2.2:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696485>
[18:16] <mup> Bug #1696512 opened: [2.2] UI: adding a virsh pod immediately commissions existing kvms <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1696512>
[21:44] <xygnal> roaksoax: something about syntax in curtin_userdata_custom vs _centos?
[21:45] <xygnal> getting errors after copying my custom over to try a native cos6 image
[22:47] <ltrager> xygnal: In the root of your CentOS tarball you need to include Curtin hooks which finalize the install
[22:47] <ltrager> xygnal: The ones we ship are at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~maas-images-maintainers/maas-images/maas-ephemerals/files/head:/curtin/
[22:48] <ltrager> xygnal: Those files should be stored in /curtin in the custom CentOS tar.gz
[22:49] <ltrager> xygnal: We are looking into incorporating those hooks directly into Curtin so that won't be necessary in the future.
[22:58] <xygnal> oh i see
[22:58] <xygnal> you dont install curtin
[22:58] <xygnal> on those
[23:21] <ltrager> xygnal: Curtin is what MAAS uses to install any OS. The current version only knows how to install Ubuntu naively. The hooks tell Curtin how to do things like setup grub.
[23:22] <ltrager> xygnal: One other things I forgot to mention you need to have cloud-init installed
[23:23] <ltrager> xygnal: On CentOS 7 you also need to install https://kojipkgs.fedoraproject.org/packages/python-oauth/1.0.1/10.el7/noarch/python-oauth-1.0.1\
[23:23] <ltrager> -10.el7.noarch.rpm
[23:25] <xygnal> ltrager in this case its only a minor exception need for cos6 which is why I am trying to use the included cos6/7 images
[23:25] <xygnal> we already pre-treat out custom cos7 image, i didnt realize the in-maas option ones were not pre-treated.  I'll look at that next.
[23:47] <sanjay> hi


[17:44] <nsnzero> good evening all
[18:03] <Langjan> Hello all the guys
[18:04] <nsnzero> hi Langjan
[18:05] <Langjan> hi nsnzero you ok?
[18:05] <nsnzero> i am well Langjan , and how are you ?
[18:05] <Langjan> Fine thks nsnzero
[18:07] <nsnzero> good to hear Langjan
[18:15] <Langjan> Good to see you're also well nsnzero
[18:16] <Langjan> Just checked in to see if all are ok, any news from kilos?
[18:16] <nsnzero> he was on yesterday - he is having internet connection issues again
[18:57] <Langjan> Ai.
[19:00] <Langjan> Have a good evening and weekend nsnzero and all the guys
[19:00] <nsnzero> you take care as well Langjan - good night
[19:01] <Langjan> thks nsnzero best wishes


[05:28] <spitboxer> meanwhile my video card is a radeon hd4850, i heard the proprietary drivers have  an easy way (easier than xrandr anyway) to fix the overscan
[05:28] <spitboxer> is there a ppa or something for the radeon drivers
[05:38] <valorie> !radeon
[05:38] <valorie> spitboxer: ^^^ could help, maybe
[05:41] <spitboxer> thank you, valorie
[05:41] <valorie> I hope it helps
[05:42] <spitboxer> I dont see the "ubuntu hardware drivers manager" in kubuntu, in fact the default repos after a fresh install dont even have irssi or chromium
[05:42] <spitboxer> of course im kinda new to muon, more used to synaptic/gnome ubuntu
[05:43] <valorie> hmmm, used to be jockey
[05:43] <valorie> but on a clean install, probably not there
[05:43] <spitboxer> ah yes, found it
[05:43] <valorie> !drivers
[05:43] <spitboxer> its there but... will it load? haha
[05:43] <spitboxer> & will i see it
[05:43] <valorie> ok, good
[05:44] <spitboxer> thats the prob, the overscan is like 1" so no top or bottom task bars for me
[05:44] <spitboxer> "No proprietary drivers are in use on this system"
[05:44] <spitboxer> basically jockey's frames are empty
[05:47] <spitboxer> also, the default software sources has everything checked including restricted but im not even seeing other ubuntu stuff in muon, like for instance synaptic, irssi, or chromium
[05:49] <valorie> irssi and chromium are not 'ubuntu stuff'
[05:49] <valorie> I have chromium installed
[05:49] <spitboxer> well, on a default install of ubuntu, they show at least show up on synaptic without having to add more sources, under universe or multiverse IIRC
[05:49] <valorie> it is called 'chromium-browser'
[05:49] <valorie> hmmm
[05:50] <valorie> I never remember adding any repos
[05:50] <spitboxer> yeah
[05:50] <spitboxer> weird
[05:50] <spitboxer> i just did a fresh install like...30 mins ago
[05:50] <valorie> and yes I used to use synaptic
[05:50] <valorie> ok
[05:50] <spitboxer> theres no chromium in muon
[05:51] <valorie> !chromium
[05:51] <spitboxer> in fact, typing "c" shows results, but add an "h" and theres no results. :-?
[05:51] <valorie> huh
[05:51] <valorie> I don't get the daily build
[05:51] <valorie> just plain old chromium
[05:51] <spitboxer> "67,111 packages available, 1576 installed, 0 upgradeable"
[05:52] <spitboxer> and yet muon has no results for the string "ch" ?
[05:52] <spitboxer> i must be doing something wrong - or this is somehow corrupt
[05:52] <valorie> I usually use apt-cache search in the cli
[05:52] <spitboxer> software sources has universe, multiverse and restricted checked
[05:53] <valorie> and irssi and chromium both show
[05:53] <spitboxer> weird
[05:53] <valorie> I wonder if you got an incomplete download or something
[05:54] <spitboxer> hmmm could be, but then, those sources should still populate since they are checked in software sources
[05:54] <valorie> try sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
[05:54] <valorie> and then sudo apt-get install chromium-browser
[05:55] <valorie> in konsole, or yakuake, or whatever you use
[05:56] <spitboxer> well, apt-get finds chromium-browser easily
[05:56] <valorie> hmmmm
[05:56] <valorie> sounds like muon has a bug
[05:57] <spitboxer> well when i ran dist-upgrade just now it didnt upgrade anything. but earlier when i started muon i marked all upgrades
[05:57] <spitboxer> and applied them
[05:57] <spitboxer> one of which was muon itself
[05:57] <spitboxer> maybe a restart is in order
[05:57] <FloodBotK1> spitboxer: Please don't flood; use http://paste.ubuntu.com to paste; don't use Enter as punctuation.
[05:57] <valorie> only if you are asked to restart, is a restart necessary
[05:58] <spitboxer> i wasnt asked, but mayve the overscan is hiding a notification
[05:58] <valorie> ok
[05:58] <valorie> it never hurts to restart
[05:58] <spitboxer> i can see the very top pixels of the bottom notification area, nothing of any top status bar
[05:58] <spitboxer> indeed
[05:58] <valorie> but I should not be necessary
[05:58] <spitboxer> agreed, but, better a restart than a reinstall :o)
[05:58] <valorie> right
[05:59] <spitboxer> thanks for your help, brb
[06:25] <oary> any way to get the latest nvidia drivers on 13.10?
[06:26] <MangaKaDenza> mebby
[06:26] <MangaKaDenza> I think they're in muon or something
[06:33] <Newfire> oary: : Install the ppa for Xorg-edgers; there you will find the newest nvidia drivers for 13.10.
[06:33] <j_f-f>  /msg NickServ identify 12345667
[06:34] <valorie> j_f-f: don't leave a space in front of your /msg
[06:34] <Newfire> oary: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xorg-edgers/ppa
[06:35] <valorie> !nvidia too
[06:36] <valorie> !nvidia
[06:37] <oary> Newfire: Thanks, installing
[06:37] <valorie> so, good changes, spitboxer?
[06:37] <spitboxer> well, looks like the ISO matches exactly the one on kubuntu.com
[06:37] <spitboxer> so far, none of the package changes are picked up in muon, but synaptic shows them
[06:38] <spitboxer> cant seem to get jockey to recognize the existence of alternate drivers
[06:38] <valorie> please file a bug against muon
[06:38] <spitboxer> that leaves xrandr as the only other method to scale the screen, and i gave up looking for a gui for it, getting ready for bed
[06:39] <valorie> not sure if kscreen would help
[06:39] <spitboxer> i tried ktrayrandr or something to that effect, doesnt do anything i can see
[06:39] <spitboxer> but then it might be on the upper system/notification bar which i cant see
[06:39] <spitboxer> krandrtray maybe
[06:42] <valorie> hmmm, I've not seen any KDE system bar on top
[06:42] <valorie> unless people set it up that way
[06:42] <valorie> maybe drag the bars to the sides until you get the size issue fixed?
[06:42] <spitboxer> well im new to KDE so Im not sure what is in the upper right hand corner
[06:43] <spitboxer> but im not exactly new to unix, linux, or ubuntu
[06:43] <valorie> it's possible that there is a "cashew" which is a button to add stuff to the desktop
[06:43] <valorie> most desktop stuff can be accessed with the context/right-click menu though
[06:44] <valorie> but the cashew will allow you to add applets and such
[06:44] <spitboxer> 'k
[09:08] <lordievader> Good morning.
[09:16] <rohan> hi all: any idea when kubuntu 13.10 will get kde 4.11.3?
[09:17] <valorie> rohan: as soon as it hits
[09:17] <valorie> :-)
[09:17] <rohan> valorie: heh, guess i had that coming :)
[09:17] <valorie> seriously, it's in progress until it drops
[09:17] <rohan> well i was just surprised because kubuntu usually is the first or second to get new kde packages
[09:17] <valorie> more packaging help is always welcome!
[09:18] <valorie> I guess the timing wasn't ideal for a lot of individual people
[09:18] <rohan> if i knew how to, i would!
[09:18] <rohan> yes, fair enough
[09:18] <valorie> for the snap your fingers instant we've gotten used to
[09:18] <valorie> rohan: join the devel list and the devel channel and offer to help package
[09:18] <valorie> they will give you a reading list, a task and oversight
[09:19] <valorie> if you have a good head for detail, you can help out a lot
[09:26] <rohan> valorie: thank you, i will do that in the morning.
[09:26] <valorie> :-)
[09:47] <eutheria> hello i have enabled virtual desktops, i would like to stop them wrapping when i hit the last desktop
[09:48] <MangaKaDenza> what do you mean wrapping
[10:16] <lordievader> eutheria: System Settings -> Workspace Behaviour -> Virtual Desktops -> Switching -> Untick "Desktop navigation wraps around"
[10:31] <gregor3000> well this is ridiculous. first i wanted to update and muon updater (old one) had no menues... ok fine i run discoverer and update. now the 3D effects don't work with AMD drivers
[10:31] <gregor3000> it crashes the kwin
[10:31] <gregor3000> what the f?
[10:48] <eutheria> thanks lordievader
[10:49] <eutheria> i do like kde 4 now
[10:53] <gregor3000> i can't install fglrx
[10:54] <gregor3000> it says downloading and installing driver and nothing get's downloaded
[10:55] <lordievader> eutheria: No problem, glad you like KDE ;)
[10:56] <eutheria> i tried out kde 4 when it first came out and found it way too slow and messy
[10:56] <eutheria> but this 4.11 is great
[10:58] <eutheria> not sure i am crazy about the weird glowing shadow
[11:05] <lordievader> eutheria: That is the nice thing about kde, you can customize about everything.
[11:07] <nuves> Hey everybody
[11:08] <nuves> Listen, i have a problem. I have Linux mint on cinnamon. I installed kubuntu-desktop from rep, but my version is 4.11. Is it normal
[11:09] <nuves> is there anyone?
[11:09] <lordievader> nuves: Yes, that is normal.
[11:10] <nuves> But why if there is 4.9 released
[11:10] <lordievader> nuves: 4.11.2 is the newest in the repo.
[11:10] <lordievader> 4.11.3 will probably come soon.
[11:10] <nuves> but on kde.org there is kde 4.9 released
[11:10] <Avihay> 4.11>4.9
[11:11] <Avihay> 4.11>4.9>4.1.1
[11:11] <nuves> thanks i got it
[11:11] <lordievader> Avihay: Wouldn't 4.9 be the beta release of kde5?
[11:12] <lordievader> Avihay: Heard somewhere that they use .9 as beta, not sure if it applies here too.
[11:12] <monkeyjuice> morning
[11:12] <lordievader> Hey monkeyjuice, how are you?
[11:12] <monkeyjuice> good thanks how you doing today
[11:12] <Avihay> no, if you follow planet kde, they said, while it was kde4.9, that kde5 won't happen till atleast kde 4.11, probably 4.12
[11:13] <lordievader> monkeyjuice: Doing ok.
[11:13] <lordievader> Avihay: Ah ok, haven't said a thing. Thanks :)
[11:15] <nuves> people look, i am new in qt programming and i found kde is the best way to get some experience
[11:15] <nuves> but it is hard to change from q to k and back while programming si it normal?
[11:43] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[11:48] <evilC> STILL having problems getting multi monitor to work (20 hours and counting), anyone around who can help yet?
[13:06] <DarthCodus> everything seems to be working now, I installed proprietary amd drivers
[13:07] <DarthCodus> except for this "system problem detected" dialog box that popped up on login
[13:08] <DarthCodus> clicking on report, nothing. it usually opens up a fialog with backtrace and stuff
[13:20] <lordievader> DarthCodus: Do you have Unity installed? The wording reminds me of times I had Unity installed.
[13:20] <DarthCodus> nope
[13:23] <lordievader> Some GTK application that fails to load?
[13:51] <ovidiu-florin> how do I set a custom /etc/hosts file for a specific network
[13:51] <ovidiu-florin> ?
[13:54] <BluesKaj> ovidiu-florin. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/6.5/chapter07/hosts.html
[13:57] <evilc> OK, so I have finally got back to where I started 20+ hours ago, and all is almost working. All I have to do now is fix one of my monitors detecting as 1024x768 instead of the correct value of 1280x1024. I can fix using xrandr but it is not persistent. I know you can put the settings in xorg.conf, but mine is empty and I am reticent to just paste any old thing in there in case it all breaks again. Can anyone help?
[15:18] <ovidiu-florin> BluesKaj: that is not what I asked
[15:25] <BluesKaj> ovidiu-florin. ok
[15:25] <ovidiu-florin> I have a problem with my router
[15:25] <ovidiu-florin> and I need to set my domain to a local IP when I'm home
[15:25] <ovidiu-florin> and disable it everywhere else
[15:26] <ovidiu-florin> I need to uncomment/add a line to the /etc/hosts file when home, and remove/comment that line everywhere else
[15:31] <soee> can someone remind me app name to work on translation files ?
[15:31] <Wizard> kbabel?
[15:32] <Wizard> qt translator?
[15:33] <soee> hmm Lokalize i think :)
[15:33] <soee> just found it in moun discover
[15:41] <ovidiu-florin> soee: don't forget about kdesvn
[15:41] <soee> ovidiu-florin, what is it ?
[15:42] <ovidiu-florin> soee: how do you download the translation files?
[15:43] <soee> ovidiu-florin, im working just on a plasmoid translation
[15:43] <soee> so i have its files and im translating  .pot file
[15:43] <soee> than ill just send it to author
[15:44] <ovidiu-florin> ah
[15:45] <ovidiu-florin> then don't minf kdesvn
[15:45] <ovidiu-florin> mind*
[15:45] <soee> :)
[16:17] <dougl> I have install 13.10 but now when I close my notebook the  screen gets locked and when I come back and open it the screen is locked and the keyboard is locked up too - any suggestions?
[16:34]  * ronnoc facepalms
[16:34] <ronnoc> Did the unthinkable noob mistake - make my /home way too small.
[16:40] <lordievader> ronnoc: Fire up a live-cd and enlarge it ;)
[16:44] <ronnoc> lordievader: I'm on it!
[16:45] <ronnoc> last blank DVD on hand so it better not coaster on me lol
[17:04] <DarthCodus> Okay, my freezing issue is not solved
[17:04] <DarthCodus> I just woke my laptop from sleep, and it's frozen
[17:05] <DarthCodus> I can ssh into it
[17:05] <DarthCodus> Can somebody help me with this?
[17:14] <dougl> I have install 13.10 but now when I close my notebook the  screen gets locked and when I come back and open it the screen is locked and the keyboard is locked up too - any suggestions?
[17:14] <dougl> DarthCodus, ^^^
[17:15] <dougl> same problem? mine sleeps after I close the lid...
[17:15] <dougl> do you have another computer to ssh in from?
[17:15] <dougl> I can help you do that but to what end I do not know... we are bournd to learn something :)
[17:20] <DarthCodus> Yep
[17:20] <DarthCodus> Does your notebook have a discrete gpu?
[17:21] <DarthCodus> dougl: ^
[17:23] <dougl> DarthCodus, nvidia... 670m
[17:24] <dougl> anyone know how to change the wallpaper/background to the login screen?
[17:27] <DarthCodus> dougl: mine's got an amd 7730
[17:28] <DarthCodus> And I'm using the beta drivers
[17:29] <dougl> never even thot about the drivers DarthCodus I will blindly go and install nvidia dri vers and see where I end up - thanks
[17:30] <DarthCodus> lol
[17:30] <DarthCodus> Yw
[17:31] <dougl> Lol - what is the worst that can happen... 'sudo rm -rf  /*' maybe that will work?
[17:32] <dougl> Do not try that command... as I did on someones advice years and years ago and is not good!
[17:32] <dougl> lol
[17:35] <soee> dougl, for the login screen background go to System Settings and Login Screen (LighDM)
[17:35] <soee> there you can change background image
[17:36] <dougl> soee... thakns and even thanks...
[17:36]  * dougl dcc's soee goodwill and appreciation
[17:45] <DarthCodus> The sleep issue is gone on the igpu
[18:07] <dougl> Errors were encountered while processing:
[18:07] <dougl>  grub-efi-amd64-signed
[18:07] <dougl>  shim-signed
[18:07] <dougl> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[18:08] <dougl> what does this mean?
[18:56] <dougl> I get a 404 error from my skype repo... anyone know of a working repo for skype for my 13.10
[20:08] <glenrock> is there a way to control how long the taskbar flashes when a running application has new activity?
[20:49] <dougl> does anyone know how to configure my bluetooth headset for hi fi and not telephony duplex? i keep changing it but it keeps reverting
[21:04] <draikx> With k9copy being EoL'd, is there a new tool to use?
[21:05] <draikx> I installed the last stable package they released, but my desktop tends to quickly fail in the process of ripping my movies to my media server.
[21:07] <dougl> oh no... k9copy done too bad.
[21:07] <dougl> dunno what is next
[21:21] <draikx> I rip whole movies so I can stream them to my phone/tablet, and watch bonus features if I want, too.
[21:21] <draikx> I looked into handbrake, but it doesn't do ISO.
[22:13] <dougl> what do I need the "grub-efi-amd64-signed" package for?/
[22:18] <therazr> dougl: If your machine is running in EFI mode, then that package is needed as the bootloader GRUB for EFI systems
[22:28] <dougl> therazr, thanks
[22:29] <dougl> do you know what the "shim-signed" package is for?
[22:30] <dougl> and  if the errors relating to these packages will resolve themselves or do I need to do some thing...
[22:30] <dougl> is my computer doomed to some impending failure?
[22:30] <dougl> lol
[22:36] <zichichi21> Hi everybody.
[22:36] <chiefw0tj> hi zichichi21
[22:37] <zichichi21> Hello chief :D I am currently on Kubuntu 13.10 and I'm having a problem with creating an access point with my wireless card. Can you help me?
[22:40] <zichichi21> Ok I'll just post my question, see if someone is able to answer. First time I create the AP connection everything works fine and I'm able to connect my phone to my laptop. If I connect to another network, though, the AP connection is not visible anymore in the network widget but it's still among the available connections in the settings panel.
[22:40] <zichichi21> My question is: how do I re-enable the AP mode in the network applet?
[22:41] <zichichi21> Because, as far as I see, there is no way to reconnect to a network from the settings panel.
[22:46] <valorie> zichichi21: when you open that connection, is there no selection to connect there?
[22:48] <zichichi21> no, not in the settings panel
[22:48] <zichichi21> I mean, the panel that comes out when you click "edit connections"
[22:48] <zichichi21> there is no option to connect to a network
[22:53] <valorie> hmmm, that sounds like a bug to me
[23:06] <zichichi21> Seems like this guy had the same problem: http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=118245
[23:06] <zichichi21> It works again if I delete all the networks except for the AP one.
[23:13] <valorie> zichichi21: just because someone has written in the forum doesn't mean a bug has been filed
[23:14] <valorie> you can HOPE the devel sees the forum post
[23:14] <valorie> or file a bug and include the forum post in your report, and be assured the devel sees your bugreport
[23:17] <zichichi21> Yes if I can't figure this out until tomorrow I'll do it!
[23:17] <zichichi21> Thanks a lot valorie.
[23:18] <valorie> thank you for helping out
[23:18] <valorie> I know filing bugs is a bit of a pain
[23:18] <valorie> but the devels rely on your feedback, so thanks
[23:20] <zichichi21> No problem, but I have nothing in the kernel's log. It shows something when I add the connection but nothing after.
[23:21] <valorie> that's good info
[23:21] <valorie> be sure to add that
[23:22] <zichichi21> Now I'm only undecided whether to fill a bug to the kde or kubuntu tracker...
[23:24] <zichichi21> Ok I'll use the integrated bug reporter.
[23:24] <valorie> bugs.kde.org I think is the right place
[23:24] <valorie> this isn't a packaging issue
[23:25] <valorie> people on #kde are complaining of the same issues
[23:29] <zichichi21> Oh really?
[23:30] <zichichi21> Ok then, I'll fill the bug there. Thank you!
[23:31] <valorie> yw
[23:32] <bazzzinga> Hiya, Can someone tell me why I keep getting this command in all my idle channels?    [18:27] [Error] LAGTIME.10598468: Unknown command.......... I cant find anywhere to turn it off! It did it with xchat and the same with Konversation? Its drivin me batty!
[23:33] <valorie> bazzzinga: I think you can tell konvi to put that in the server tab, at least
[23:33] <valorie> I never see it
[23:34] <valorie> settings > configure notifications, perhaps
[23:36] <valorie> or settings > configure Konversation > Behavior: connection
[23:36] <bazzzinga> I cant find it anywhere and it just keeps running
[23:37] <bazzzinga> obviously its somekind of lag meter or sumthin in that order
[23:38] <valorie> sure, but mine shows in the bottom stripe
[23:38] <valorie> perhaps try #konversation , where the devels hang out
[23:38] <valorie> they are very helpful
[23:38] <bazzzinga> yeah gonna try now thanks
[23:40] <bazzzinga> no answer yet valorie, its sat nite all the geeks are partying lol
[23:41] <valorie> ok, there is a list as well
[23:41] <valorie> or the kde forum
[23:42] <valorie> they do live all around the world, but as you say, it's Saturday night
[23:45] <bazzzinga> its sumthin to do with my bnc, thats causing it
[23:47] <valorie> there is always lag
[23:47] <valorie> but it should be reported in a calm way
[23:47] <valorie> not in your face
[23:47] <bazzzinga> yeah but I dont want it filling up my screen with a warning every 5 secs
[23:47] <valorie> right now I can see I have lag of 186ms
[23:48] <valorie> down in the right-hand bottom corner
[23:48] <valorie> so it isn't the bnc's problem, it is something about konvi's config
[23:49] <bazzzinga> yeah I see that but this error is coming in the ch screen
[23:49] <valorie> it's not so much an error as just a report
[23:49] <bazzzinga> Im not on the bnc here and its fine, all ch's connected to bnc are doing it so it has to be sumthin with the bnc
[23:50] <valorie> the bnc has lag, because we are connected at less than the speed of light
[23:50] <valorie> but the report of the lag shouldn't be in your channel logs
[23:51] <bazzzinga> I know it has me baffled, Ill tackle my buddy that setup the bnc, Im just a user on it. he will geek it out lol
[23:55] <zichichi21> Bug filled: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=327386 (Can't enable AP mode if there are other saved wireless networks) - Please help if you can. Good night (and thank you again valorie!)
[23:56] <valorie> awesome!
[23:56] <valorie> thanks again, zichichi21
[23:56] <zichichi21> It's been a pleasure!


[00:29] <james_w> mtaylor: so, the failure that stops it extracting for me on lucid is the same problem that building has apparently, but instead of being an error it just silently carries on. I don't see how this ever worked though.
[00:30] <james_w> mtaylor: the way I see it, it calls tar with -k, which means "don't replace existing files when extracting" and so the updated file that is listed in include-binaries isn't written over the top of the file from upstream.
[06:16] <jtv> spiv: lifeless tells quite highly of your repo repair skills
[06:16] <spiv> jtv: was just reading backlog from the other channel
[06:16]  * jtv cheers him on
[06:16] <jtv> (btw got the Prague picture?  Women here have a tendency to point at you and ask questions when I show them my pictures)
[06:17] <spiv> jtv: pastebin the contents of 'find . -type f .bzr/repository'?
[06:17] <spiv> jtv: I did, thanks :)
[06:17] <jtv> spiv: not sure what it is you want me to find—that's not correct "find" syntax.
[06:17] <spiv> Although I admit to being puzzled why you are showing my picture to various women ;)
[06:17] <spiv> Oh, thinko
[06:17] <jtv> spiv: it's just in the batch, I can't help it.  Some quite good ones.
[06:18] <spiv> 'find .bzr/repository -type f'
[06:18] <jtv> Got a great one of elmo, like an ultra-modern version of a 17th-century Dutch painting.  But he doesn't like being in pictures so I'm not sharing widely.  :/
[06:20] <jtv> spiv: http://paste.ubuntu.com/483798/
[06:20] <spiv> And pastebin 'bzr dump-btree .bzr/repository/pack-names'
[06:20] <jtv> spiv: http://paste.ubuntu.com/483800/
[06:25] <spiv> jtv: ok, that definitely looks like you hit a pack-names update race.  The fix should be 'mv .bzr/repository/obsolete_packs/f16*.*ix .bzr/repository/indices/ && mv .bzr/repository/obsolete_packs/f16*.pack .bzr/repository/packs'
[06:26] <spiv> jtv: which version of bzr?
[06:26] <lifeless> spiv: not going to roll forward ? or is there no .new file ?
[06:27] <spiv> lifeless: nope
[06:27] <jtv> spiv: 2.2.0
[06:27] <spiv> jtv: drat, that should contain all the fixes jam has made in this area :/
[06:27] <spiv> jtv: which filesystem?
[06:28] <jtv> ext4
[06:28] <jtv> it goes bad from time to time… wgrant has reported the same
[06:28] <jtv> Can I just cp -r to back up my repo?
[06:29] <spiv> Yep
[06:31] <jtv> Well, that's done.
[06:32] <jtv> And it seems to be working!  Yay!
[06:32] <jtv> Thanks spiv, thanks lifeless  :-)
[06:33] <spiv> jtv: Now the only question is what caused it :/
[06:34] <jtv> My candidates are: a recent filesystem corruption and a race condition (the problem struck when I was pulling multiple branches in the same repo)
[06:48] <wgrant> jtv: It hasn't done that for a long time for me.
[06:48] <wgrant> Since maybe May.
[06:54] <spiv> wgrant: that's roughly when jam's fixes landed, IIRC
[06:55] <jtv> this is about the fs corruption I think, not the repo trouble
[06:55] <wgrant> FS corruption, yes.
[06:56] <wgrant> Block device flakes out for a moment, kernel marks it read only, FS goes bye-bye...
[06:56] <jtv> For me they seemed to go away for a while when I switched from the proprietary nVidia driver to nouveau, but now they're back.
[06:56] <jtv> Oh, more trouble while running rocketfuel-update.  :-(
[06:56] <jtv> Exception AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'close'" in <bound method SmartSSHClientMedium.__del__ of SmartSSHClientMedium(bzr+ssh://jtv@bazaar.launchpad.net/)> ignored
[06:56] <jtv> Exception AttributeError: "'NoneType' object has no attribute 'close'" in <function terminate at 0xa3b895c> ignored
[06:57] <jtv> sorry, rocketfuel-get.
[06:57] <spiv> Those are harmless warnings, there have been posts on the list about them.
[06:57] <jtv> ok
[06:58] <spiv> (Perhaps utilities/update-sourcecode needs to be updated to call bzrlib.initialize()?)
[07:22] <vila> hi all !
[07:26] <vila> spiv: any chance you can review my looms tomorrow ? You did notice you are the pp this week :-D ?
[07:35] <vila> mgz: pong
[07:39] <vila> jtv, spiv: bigkevmcd also had a corrupted repo yesterday, also on ext4 :-/ I asked him to file a bug (to track the config details) but I don't see it so far
[07:40] <spiv> vila: yeah, I'll review
[07:41] <vila> yeah !
[07:41] <spiv> vila: interesting... I wonder if bigkevmcd had a crash as well?
[07:41] <vila> spiv: yeah, a reboot
[07:42] <spiv> Hmm!
[07:42] <vila> spiv: an empty .pack file but dirstate and last-revision where mentioning the missing revision
[07:42] <vila> which can only be explained by a very very dirty fs flush...
[07:42] <spiv> vila: interesting, quite different to jtv's symptoms then
[07:43] <spiv> vila: which was pack-names referenced a pack that had been moved to obsolete_packs
[07:43] <vila> spiv: I didn't follow jtv's crash, can you summzrize or point me to the right... ok
[07:43] <vila> eeerk an impossible scenario too...
[07:43] <spiv> No temporary pack-names files lying around (although a couple of upload/*.autopack, not sure how recent)
[07:44] <vila> hmm, unless a pack-names file creation wasn't flushed (including creation of the temp one and its renaming...)
[07:44] <vila> twilight  zonesque
[07:44] <spiv> vila: right
[07:49] <spiv> so concretely, the fs might guarantee that f = open('foo.new', 'w'); write(f, '...'); close(f); rename('foo.new', 'foo') is atomic in the face of a crash (as I believe ext3 and ext4 do by default now), but not guarantee anything about whether files created and renamed before that will actually hit disk before that.  So the (small) pack-names file might have its update committed, but the larger pack file might not be.
[07:50] <vila> ...or somehow related to a journalling problem... It's hard to believe that an out-of-order error can happen for the updates of a single process though...
[07:51] <vila> hehe long mesgs tend to cross on the wire :)
[07:51] <spiv> Well, in the face of a system crash, I don't think any guarantee is made about the relative order that files are written.
[07:52] <vila> but journalling is supposed to protect against such scenarios...
[07:52] <spiv> ext4 defaults to data=ordered, which strictly speaking only guarantees that the file *metadata* is journalled.
[07:53] <spiv> Search for "* ordered mode" in http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/Documentation/filesystems/ext4.txt
[07:53] <vila> i.e. dir content and that's exactly what failled...oh wait, *file* content vs *dir* content :-/
[07:55] <vila> eerk, ordered is the default :-/ not journal
[07:55]  * vila revises its beliefs :(
[07:56] <vila> so the fs is not corrupted... I'm so glad :(
[07:57] <spiv> And even if data=journalled it's not clear to me if that implies that changes to multiple files are necessarily committed in the same order as a (single) process that issues them.  That doc only clearly states than an individual file will be consistent.
[07:59] <vila> spiv: if data=journal (and the journal is not lost somehow), then after a crash, the journal is replayed and all updates should be seen
[07:59] <vila> that's the point of a journal or all bets are off
[08:00] <spiv> vila: right, but the most recent changes might not be "committed" and lost, so the question of ordering still matters.
[08:00] <vila> once an update is committed on the main fs, the corresponding entries must be deleted from the journal or be defined in a way that allow them to become no-ops if they are re-played
[08:01] <spiv> vila: also, see the auto_da_alloc option described at that URL
[08:03] <vila> spiv: and we don't use fsync right ?
[08:05] <vila> It's a bit scary to be qualified 'broken' there, sounds like some fs optimizations are a bit user-hostile...
[08:05] <spiv> vila: right, because it practice it is a huge performance hit because it tends to cause a system-wide flushing of buffered writes :(
[08:05] <vila> EISHOULDNTHAVETOCARE
[08:06] <spiv> vila: there have been some "entertaining" discussions on the topic of fsync/ext4/etc summarised on LWN in the last year or so
[08:06] <spiv> vila: google for o_ponies if you like ;)
[08:06] <vila> hehe
[08:11] <vila> All I want is my rug back !
[09:19] <CcxCZ> hi, I have question about repository layout/workflow, can anyone advise?
[09:22] <CcxCZ> I have two projects which share common source files. What is the best way to keep it all versioned and make it easy to backport changes from one project to another?
[09:27] <vila> CcxCZ: the easiest way today is to handle 3 separate projects: project A, project B and project common
[09:27] <vila> CcxCZ: 'nested trees' is the planned feature you really want here
[09:28] <vila> CcxCZ: with nested trees you will be able to "nest" project common in both projects and cleanly merge changes made by one project or the other
[09:30] <CcxCZ> vila: isn't it supported by 2.2?
[09:30] <vila> CcxCZ: no, at best it will be supported or alpha in 2.3
[09:31] <CcxCZ> :[
[09:31] <CcxCZ> vila: thanks for info
[09:32] <vila> CcxCZ: depending on the volume of shared files and changes, there are some ways to address your need today but nothing trivial :-/
[09:34] <spiv> Huh, for some reason --lsprof-file foo.callgrind has given me a callgrind file where most of the calls aren't connected to each other :(
[09:35] <vila> spiv: stop doing things behind callgrind back !
[09:37] <spiv> vila: I didn't think I was!
[10:03] <CcxCZ> what's best tool to migrate from svn?
[10:09] <vila> CcxCZ: bzr-svn allows you to work with bzr while still connecting to an svn server
[10:10] <maxb> I think in most cases, bzr-svn is also the best tool for a one-shot migration
[10:15] <CcxCZ> I think it required some specific repository format which was bothersome
[10:15] <CcxCZ> I'm going to try svn2bzr.py now
[10:19] <knittl> where can i find docs on compiling bazaar?
[10:20] <knittl> bzrlib/_static_tuple_c.c:35: fatal error: _simple_set_pyx_api.h: No such file or directory
[10:21] <jelmer> CcxCZ, it only requires a specific repository format if you're using bzr < 2.0
[10:22] <jelmer> (which you probably should not anyway..)
[10:25] <vila> knittl: just try 'make' in the source directory
[10:25] <vila> knittl: you need pyrex and a C compiler
[10:25] <knittl> vila: make? i did setup.py install
[10:26] <knittl> i might be missing pyrex
[10:26] <knittl> what's the package's name in ubuntu?
[10:27] <vila> knittl: why do you want to run setup.py if you're using Ubuntu ? There is a ppa with the latest stable versions and if you want to run from sources you shouldn't need setup.py
[10:27] <knittl> because setup.py is usually the right way for python apps
[10:28] <knittl> and i need to run from source
[10:28] <maxb> CcxCZ: svn2bzr.py? Hasn't that project been dead for three years?
[10:28] <vila> knittl: then run from sources, using setup.py will only make your life harder
[10:28] <vila> knittl: python-pyrex
[10:30] <knittl> what is setup.py used for then?
[10:31] <vila> knittl: *installing* from a release tarball for platforms that doesn't provide binary packages :) If you encounter a problem using it, please file a bug so we can track it
[10:32] <vila> knittl: but if you want to run from sources, you don't need it (or you will have to run it each time you modify the sources)
[10:32] <knittl> uhm ok. let's try make
[10:32] <maxb> Well, that's not entirely true. You only need to re-run it when you modify compiled bits
[10:32] <vila> knittl: all you need to run from sources is to make the 'bzr' script appears in your PATH
[10:32] <maxb> And "make" is just a trivial wrapper around setup.py
[10:32] <knittl> well, run everytime sources change is normal routine for selfcompiled apps
[10:33] <vila> maxb: I was talking about setup.py, not make
[10:33] <knittl> no target install
[10:33] <knittl> :-/
[10:33] <vila> knittl: 'make' not 'make install'
[10:33] <knittl> i did make. and then i wanted to install
[10:34] <vila> knittl: ghaaa, sorry. 'make' will build the extensions in the *source* dir, you can then run from here, no need to install,
[10:34] <knittl> but i want to install it systemwide
[10:35] <vila> knittl: if you really really want to install, then yes, run setup.py
[10:35] <knittl> there we go …
[10:36] <vila> knittl: why not use the version provided by either Ubuntu or one of the ppas described at https://edge.launchpad.net/bzr ? Just curious...
[10:37] <vila> knittl: some plugins requires that the dependencies are kept in sync and is not a trivial task (/me looks at maxb ;)
[10:37] <maxb> It's not that hard, either, though
[10:37] <knittl> running comparisons of different dvcs (latest version from source)
[10:38] <maxb> I can understand wanting to check out how difficult a self-build is, to not be beholden on packagers
[10:39] <vila> knittl: then I'd strongly recommend using https://edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/+archive/ppa , it's recent enough to make no differences with bzr.trunk except that the later may drive you into dependencies problems that will be totally irrelevant to a dvcs comparison...
[10:40] <knittl> hmm
[10:40] <vila> knittl: anyway, these are the options, use whatever you see fit
[10:40] <knittl> but it's only rc?
[10:41] <vila> knittl: nope, see this channel topic, I'm pretty sure all installers are already up-to-date (minus the OSX one ?)
[10:41] <knittl> what's special about the channel topic?
[10:41] <vila> knittl: so the official announcement will occur RSN but the sources have been frozen already
[10:42] <vila> knittl: it says: bzr 2.2-final has gone gold
[10:42] <vila> not rc nor beta anymore
[10:42] <knittl> yes. but current trunk is 2.3.0, isn't it?
[10:42] <vila> knittl: no, it's trunk but will become 2.3 in ~6 months
[10:44] <knittl> yeah. but it's not 2.2
[10:44] <knittl> whatever, i'll have a look at the ppa as well
[10:48] <vila> knittl: indeed, it's not 2.2 and as such is not as stable as 2.2, my point is just to warn you about that. While bzr.dev have a few bug fixes/memory consumption optimizations, I don't think that's worth the risk for a comparison if this means you get a bad user experience (and hard to reproduce problems, trunks of bzr and plugins may change quickly especially just after a release)
[10:49] <vila> knittl: on the other hand, I'm not aware *today* of any problem in this area...
[10:49] <knittl> i'm not comparing usability
[10:51] <vila> knittl: ok, feel free to ask any questions anyway
[10:51] <knittl> i sure will. thx :)
[11:06] <CcxCZ> how do I remove project from shared repository?
[11:08] <maxb> Do you mean branch, not project?
[11:09] <CcxCZ> yes
[11:30] <maxb> CcxCZ: You can just delete the branch from disk. Unfortunately there's no way to make bzr purge the data in the repository which is now unreferenced
[11:34] <CcxCZ> so, the best way to clean shared repository is to make new one and re-branch all branches from the original one
[11:42] <maxb> If you really need the diskspace, yes
[11:56] <kiwinote> quick bzr question if anyone knows. I mistyped a branch name, hence merged with a non-existent branch, this didn't time out, so I ctrl+z'ed it. Now I get errors about the dirstate lock not being available. Ideas?
[11:57] <Glenjamin> hi guys
[11:57] <Glenjamin> is there any way to tell the merge command to ignore certain files?
[12:00] <CcxCZ> Glenjamin: you can use --interactive
[12:04] <Glenjamin> i was hoping for a middleground. I've got a branch which is going to be hanging around with a few changes from trunk - and i'd like be able to merge fiex back upstream without messing around a lot
[12:04] <Glenjamin> i guess merge -c is probably my best bet
[13:08] <guiQt> hi! how can i add files that are outside the working tree?
[13:12] <vila> guiQt: 'bzr add file' unless they are really *outside* of the working tree as in 'above the root of the wt' in which case, you can't
[13:15] <guiQt> but using bazaar explorer, i can't even see files outside the working tree... :-(
[13:15] <guiQt> that's the reason of my question
[13:20] <Glenjamin> guiQt: Under the working tree section, there's a drop down box to the left of "Filter:"
[13:20] <Glenjamin> what does it say?
[13:21] <guiQt> Unignored
[13:21] <CcxCZ> I think he really means outside the wt
[13:22] <Glenjamin> select "All"
[13:22] <Glenjamin> or "Unversioned"
[13:22] <guiQt> i have several project directories and a shared folder. they're all siblings. how can i add files belonging to shared folder?
[13:22] <Glenjamin> ah, i see
[13:23] <guiQt> yes, shared is above the root of each project
[13:23] <Glenjamin> then the previous answers were more accurate - you can't add files that are actually *outside* the working tree
[13:23] <guiQt> but what is the best strategy for such a case?
[13:24] <Glenjamin> i believe there's a feature called nested trees in development, that works in a broadly similar way to svn:externals - but i don't know how complete it is yet.
[13:26] <guiQt> i'm new to versioning systems and i supposed this pattern was frequent: several projects sharing common libraries
[13:27] <Glenjamin> yes, you'd normally version the common libraries separately
[13:27] <Glenjamin> and essentially treat them as their own project - which the other projects depend on
[13:27] <guiQt> so do i till now!
[13:27] <Glenjamin> which language are you using?
[13:28] <guiQt> c++ (qt)
[13:28] <Glenjamin> ah, i'm not really familiar with handling dependencies for C++
[13:29] <CcxCZ> guiQt: what's the problem versioning it separately?
[13:30] <CcxCZ> with*
[13:31] <guiQt> when exporting the project
[13:31] <guiQt> i'd like to have all my files togheter
[13:32] <guiQt> not each project uses all shared files
[13:33] <guiQt> not a problem at all, only a matter of redundancy
[13:33] <CcxCZ> I'd write an export script for each project, exporting only necessary files
[13:34] <CcxCZ> if you mean export as in bzr export (without history)
[13:34] <guiQt> exactly
[13:35] <guiQt> ok
[13:35] <guiQt> thank you so much for the talk. see you again. ;-)
[13:36] <CcxCZ> glad to help :-)
[14:02] <vila> mgz: pong
[14:17] <stub> [Errno 11] Resource temporarily unavailable
[14:18] <stub> http://paste.ubuntu.com/483956/
[14:18] <stub> Known issue with the new bzr from the PPA, or pebkac?
[14:19] <stub> pebkac
[14:20] <stub> So that error can mean 'disk full'
[14:25] <stub> Freed disk and it is still stuck.
[14:26] <stub> hulp
[14:28] <stub> sorted. another window had a 'bzr diff|less' open.
[15:52] <chx> how can i make bzr resolve by accepting all THIS files as valid?
[15:53] <jelmer> chx, I think "bzr resolved --take-this"
[15:54] <chx> weird, bzr help resolved didnt list that option
[15:54] <james_w> resolve/resolved
[15:55] <chx> yeah that probably needs 2.2
[15:55] <chx> i only have 2.1
[15:55] <chx> i guess revert
[15:55] <james_w> revert .
[15:55] <james_w> without the dot it will forget you merged as well, which you don't want
[17:01] <mgz> vila: still around?
[17:03] <vila> mgz: not for long
[17:04] <mgz> well, I'm yours till you need to be gone.
[17:04] <vila> hehe
[17:05] <vila> you pinged me .. yesterday ?
[17:05] <mgz> ah, yeah, two things about my current mp, probably should have just posted there
[17:06] <mgz> 1) can I have your output with 2000 complaining tests, because I don't get nearly that many (and don't think I skip that much either)
[17:06] <mgz> 2) how is bb.test_log fixable just with addCleanup?
[17:06] <vila> hmm, I'll need to re-run that
[17:07] <mgz> also, if you need any of my results for your leak branch, I've got the full thing
[17:07] <vila> I don't clearly see where the cycle is, but you should be able to break it in an addCleanup
[17:08] <vila> if only by deleting the offending attribute
[17:08] <vila> or setting it to None
[17:08] <mgz> right, that doesn't work, because it's on the closure over the instance
[17:09] <mgz> you can't do much with cell objects.
[17:09] <mgz> and they're not terribly easy to get hold of.
[17:10] <vila> waitaminute
[17:10] <mgz> there might be some locals poking trick, but not one I know about.
[17:10] <vila> rhaa, what's wrong with lp ? I had all sort of random font sizes problems :-/
[17:11] <mgz> they've changed some css, I see
[17:11] <mgz> might have caused your browser confusion
[17:12] <vila> so, for log, isn't it enough to self.log_catcher = None ?
[17:13] <vila> mgz: after reverting your patch of course
[17:13] <mgz> nope, and I tested that just to be sure.
[17:13] <vila> or del it
[17:13] <mgz> (well, to be exact,
[17:13] <mgz> +        self.addCleanup(setattr, self, "log_catcher", None)
[17:13] <mgz> )
[17:14] <vila> hmm, does the cleanup lambda keep a reference to self in that case ?
[17:16] <lamont> I rather suspect that bug 249452 in ubuntu was resolved some time ago
[17:19] <jelmer> lamont, did you see poolie's last comment on that bug?
[17:20] <lamont> yeah, it's fix released in Bazaar, but still open in ubuntu, I'm guessing it never actually made it out as part of 1.6?
[17:20] <lamont> mostly I didn't want to track down what version it was fixed in for ubuntu
[17:20] <mgz> vila: because the cycle is between the cell and the instance
[17:21] <mgz> not the attribute.
[17:21] <vila> mgz: ha, looking at the source instead of the mp...
[17:21] <vila> what do you call the 'cell' ?
[17:21] <mgz> it's the little object python creates for closures to store the outer variables
[17:21]  * mgz is actually a little shaky on these internal details...
[17:21] <vila> mgz: so you need to delete the closure
[17:22] <vila> or step back and re-think the approach taken in def getme(branch)
[17:22] <mgz> okay, here's a minimal case, what's the right cleanup to add?
[17:22] <vila> hack in hijacking == True :)
[17:24] <mgz> http://float.endofinternet.org/bazaar/simple/weakcycle/weakcycle.py
[17:24] <mgz> the refs and weakref stuff is just to see what's happening, all that's needed is the closure for the cycle.
[17:25] <vila> del inner ?
[17:25] <mgz> try it and see :)
[17:26] <mgz> wait, did I screw that test up..
[17:26]  * mgz tries being less lame
[17:27] <mgz> need the bzr TestSuite
[17:28] <vila> with or without inner defined I get the same result
[17:28] <mgz> yeah, I minimised too much without checking the negative result
[17:28] <mgz> fixing...
[17:31] <vila> mgz: I remember why I did that I think: I needed to get the right LogFormatter object but the registry is a factory so I had to define __new__ to capture the object creation
[17:32] <vila> there may be alternatives that doesn't involve cycles, but I'm still unsure about the whole cycle elements
[17:32] <mgz> yeah, the way the test is written currently is explainable
[17:33] <mgz> okay, so, just deleting something *should* work
[17:34] <mgz> but... log_catcher isn't sufficent.
[17:34] <vila> mgz: as long as it's part of the cycle, yes, that's the idea
[17:34] <vila> so, what constitute this cycle
[17:35] <vila> mgz: so may be del MyLogFormatter ?
[17:35] <mgz> no, that's just the type, not involved
[17:35] <vila> or MyLogFormatter.__new__ = None
[17:35]  * mgz unshelves his debugging function
[17:35] <vila> well, __new__ reference self (the test instance)
[17:39] <vila> mgz: I'll be passing around only for the next hours but will be available if needed around 21h00 my time (in ~3 hours), ack ?
[17:40] <mgz> yeah, I'll dig a little more, thanks for the help.
[17:41] <vila> ok
[17:48] <mgz> okay, I understand now
[17:49] <mgz> it *is* the __new__ that's the issue, because it's (implicitly) a staticmethod
[18:01] <vila> mgz: that was my last suggestion, yes, so it should stay defined as long as the... test class is defined ? Ouch
[18:02] <vila> there is still one bit I don't remember (or may be I didn't understand it either at the time): why defining __init__ isn't enough ?
[18:04] <vila> mgz: maybe overriding b.log.LogFormatterRegistry.make_formatter can work around the problem...
[18:04]  * vila off again
[18:18] <lamont> bzrlib/_dirstate_helpers_pyx.c:9002: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules
[18:18] <lamont> nice.  only not.
[18:53] <glen> does bzr have such concept as "tag", how do i add tag to a project, say "2.3", and how do i check if such tag already exists?
[18:54] <mkanat> glen: bzr tag
[18:54] <mkanat> glen: and "bzr tags" to see existing ones.
[18:54] <glen> thanks a bunch!
[18:54] <mkanat> glen: You probably don't want to tag something just like "2.3" because tags merge across branches.
[18:54] <mkanat> glen: So you probably want something like myproject-2.3
[18:55] <glen> i.e it can't start with a number?
[18:55] <mkanat> glen: It *can*, I just wouldn't recommend it.
[18:55] <glen> anyway, i see project already has tag set:  "release-2.3-final    4132"
[18:55] <mkanat> glen: Also, you could have a revision number "2.3", which means you'd have to explicitly do -r tag:2.3 instead of just being able to do -r 2.3
[18:56] <mkanat> glen: Okay. :-)
[19:36] <vila> mgz: ping, are there any updates on your mps for testtools or bzr that I should pull before re-running for the 2000 ?
[19:56] <rocky> don't suppose any setuptools_bzr contributors hang out here? having a problem with setuptools_bzr 2.0 and bzr 2.0
[19:56] <rocky> er... bzr 2.2.0
[20:13] <mgz> vila: no, just as is would be great
[20:16] <vila> hmpf, massive maverick update
[20:16] <vila> 192 packages, 230MB will be downloaded :)
[20:26] <vila> hmm, nice colored ascii screen, makes me feel younger :) I prefer the graphic version though, especially when running X...
[20:27] <vila> at least a reboot fixed it :-/
[20:40] <vila> mgz: hmm, ran 4 tests... again ? See http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/job/py27-test-cycles-maverick/3/console
[20:40]  * mgz looks
[20:40] <vila> mgz: did I use the wrong branch ?
[20:41] <mgz> is that on 2.7 as per the name?
[20:41] <vila> yup
[20:42] <mgz> it doesn't need to be...
[20:42] <mgz> also, I've not done anything to fix --parallel=fork
[20:42] <mgz> (yet)
[20:43] <vila> doesn't need 2.7 ??? Where did I get this belief then ?
[20:44] <vila> running without --parallel at http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/job/py27-test-cycles-maverick/4
[20:44] <mgz> it's probably based on the branch for fixing selftest on 2.7 as that changed a bunch of things that would conflict.
[20:45] <mgz> that's looking good, thanks vila
[20:46] <vila> mgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/484132/ doesn't look good to me :)
[20:46] <mgz> hmpf, that's still getting junk in the output
[20:47] <mgz> ...is that what your link is saying too?
[20:47] <vila> for skipped tests
[20:47] <mgz> it's still 2.7... that needs tracking down, I'll file a bug already.
[20:49] <mgz> this is really only a 2.7 thing, right? doesn't appear on any of your other bots.
[20:49] <vila> mgz: I've setup a dedicated job on babune (it should pull from the bzr branch but not the testtools one though), so it will be easier to re-run or tweak
[20:49] <mgz> great, thanks.
[20:49] <vila> I've setup a maverick slave and add the adequate ppa so py27 is the default
[20:50] <vila> but the ppa lacks pyrex so far
[20:50] <mgz> I think I'll file against subunit because I've failed at seeing anything wrong in bzr or testtools
[20:50] <mgz> can always get moved later.
[20:50] <vila> mgz: if you read the begining of the log, I've added some commands to display what is used
[20:54] <vila> mgz: I've created a new view to track this kind of jobs: http://babune.ladeuil.net:24842/view/debug/
[20:58] <mgz> this skipped printing-of-random-details-member thing doesn't actually look fatal
[20:58] <mgz> so, it might be a seperate bug that's causing the xml parser to fail on the subunit output later
[21:15] <mgz> that run looks wedged. is that going to be my fault or a known issue?
[21:19] <vila> mgz: no idea
[21:19] <vila> mgz: rather, no known cause for hanging runs on mo.... no space left on device :-)
[21:19] <mgz> wait, now it's progressing
[21:19] <mgz> er... well
[21:19] <mgz> IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device
[21:20]  * mgz bows to vila
[21:20] <mgz> and man that 2.7 logging change is obnoxious
[21:21] <vila> meh, no idea what obnoxious means here ;)
[21:21] <mgz> the log ends with thousands of tracebacks from the logging module
[21:21] <vila> looks like tmp is full
[21:22] <mgz> which isn't nice, or useful.
[21:22] <vila> there is 1GB log file there
[21:22] <vila>  WARNING  listening socket error: [Errno 24] Too many open files
[21:22] <vila> mwahahahahaha
[21:23]  * vila bangs head on desk
[21:23] <vila> also known as leaking tests fills up my OSX disk :-(
[21:24] <mgz> well, at least we're progressing on several fronts, even if it's a pain.
[21:24] <vila> I don't want to start saying: I've told you....
[21:24] <cody-somerville> why does bzr launchpad-login try to fetch the +sshkeys page from launchpad for the user?
[21:24] <vila> but I've been repeating for ages that the leaking tests could blow up at any time...
[21:25] <vila> cody-somerville: to check that the user can login with one key registered on lp ?
[21:25] <lifeless> vila: oh hai
[21:25] <lifeless> and hi mgz
[21:25] <vila> lifeless: hey !
[21:26] <mgz> hey lifeless.
[21:26] <mgz> before I get back to filing this against subunit for lack of better ideas, do you have any smart thoughts on why 2.7 only babune gets skipped [some random details member] in the output?
[21:27] <mgz> see vila's pastebin ^up there for an example
[21:27] <vila> mgz: so, either you fix --parallel or you wait for my leaking tests mp to land (or review it :-)
[21:27] <vila> mgz: s/only/on/ ?
[21:28] <mgz> well, I mean that it happens on 2.7 but apparently not 2.6
[21:28] <mgz> ^okay, I'll look at parallel, presume that I can just override osutils.---thingy---concurrency to test
[21:28] <vila> BZR_CONCCURRENCY even
[21:29] <mgz> ah, I meant, as in, write a testcase, but yes
[21:30]  * vila EODing, have fun !
[21:30] <mgz> bye vila!
[21:31] <lifeless> well 2.7 added an official skip
[21:31] <lifeless> which pastebin ?
[21:32] <mgz> sorry, wrong keyword,
 mgz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/484132/ doesn't look good to me :)
[21:33] <mgz> those ones actually have the 'reason' detail, but others have the 'traceback' or 'log'
[21:35] <lifeless> whats wrong with it ?
[21:36] <mgz> it's weird, and we're not sure if it's related to the other things that go wrong with 2.7 like, the xml output not being well-formed
[21:36] <lifeless> it looks like parameterisation or something to me
[21:37] <lifeless> the reason you'd get logs and stuff, is if the skip is done late
[21:37] <lifeless> after test activity
[21:37] <lifeless> like I say
[21:37] <lifeless> 2.7 added skip support
[21:37] <lifeless> so I suspect an interaction with that
[21:38] <mgz> sounds likely, so, where should I be filing this? bzr? testtools? subunit?
[21:38] <lifeless> whereever the problem is ;)
[21:38] <mgz> ;_;
[21:38] <lifeless> I doubt subunit
[21:38] <lifeless> very very much
[21:39] <lifeless> maybe testtools, maybe bzr
[21:39] <mgz> okay, I'll have another look at testtools first.
[21:39] <lifeless> but
[21:39] <lifeless> dunno what the problem is
[21:39] <lifeless> so - I'd a) reproduce locally
[21:40] <lifeless> b) use the magic of greyskull^Wpdb
[21:40] <mgz> the log thing due to a later skip might help, I'll see if I can work out if there's a difference in the tests that have reason and those that have log
[21:40] <lifeless> they should still have a reason
[21:40] <lifeless> it will depend on the API they use
[21:40] <lifeless> if they call addSkip(test, foo) - then reason only
[21:41] <lifeless> if they call addSkip(test, details=...)
[21:41] <lifeless> then you'll get log + reason + other stuff
[21:41] <mgz> getting that out the way will hopefully make tracking down the actual broken output and other weirdness easier
[21:42] <mgz> another one I saw was a x6 paramatised test that failed,
[21:42] <mgz> getting traceback-0 through -5
[21:42] <lifeless> thats bogus
[21:42] <mgz> as each one failed.
[21:42] <lifeless> 6 tracebacks would make sense for a server test where multiple threads can die
[21:45] <mgz> that doesn't look like what this is:
[21:45] <mgz> right, but this was totally, straight up, adding the
[21:45] <mgz> gra.
[21:45] <mgz> wrong paste
[21:45] <mgz> this:
[21:45] <mgz> http://float.endofinternet.org/temp/babune_log_extract.txt
[21:46] <mgz> first fail has traceback. second has traceback, traceback-1, third has traceback, traceback-1, traceback-2... etc
[21:46] <lifeless> perhaps something is gone fucked up with test parameterisation
[21:46] <lifeless> like sharing object state or something
[21:46] <mgz> seems likely.
[21:46] <mgz> might just be that test case class then?
[21:47] <lifeless> well
[21:47] <lifeless> the tracebacks are stored in self._details
[21:47] <lifeless> if that dict were initialised before parameterisation
[21:47] <lifeless> and shallow copied
[21:47] <lifeless> (which I think we do, for various reasons)
[21:47] <lifeless> [the shallow copying we do]
[21:48] <lifeless> and indeed
[21:48] <mgz> okay, food for me now, I'll make a list of these things and file bugs so that the ones I can't work out myself don't get lost.
[21:48] <lifeless> TestCase.__init__ sets self.__details
[21:48] <lifeless> so if we're shallow copying we'll be sharing details
[21:48] <lifeless> and cleanups
[21:48] <lifeless> and other fun stuff
[21:49] <lifeless> and clone_with_new_id uses copy.copy
[21:49] <lifeless> need to check what bzr uses
[21:49] <lifeless> copy.copy
[21:49] <lifeless> so, thats why
[21:49] <lifeless> grah fuckers.
[21:50] <mgz> okay, so that's something seperate and fixable at least.
[21:59] <lifeless> probably by implementing the copy hook for TestCase
[21:59] <lifeless> I don't know what I was thinking
[22:01] <james_w> hey lifeless
[22:02] <james_w> lifeless: is testing with different imports a use case for testscenarios? We may want to test against built in json and simplejson using it if possible.
[22:10] <lifeless> james_w: yes you could use it for that
[22:10] <lifeless> if you pass in the module to your tests - ('json': {'implementation':__import__('json')]), ('simplejson': {'implementation':__import__('simplejson')])
[22:10] <lifeless> if you pass in the module to your tests - ('json': {'implementation':__import__('json')]), ('simplejson': {'implementation':__import__('simplejson')])
[22:11] <james_w> lifeless: ok, thanks, I'll pass that on
[22:11] <lifeless> james_w: if the module is implicit state in your environment its a bit trickier
[22:11] <lifeless> I'd probably use a Fixture + scenarios then
[22:12] <lifeless> and have the setup reimport the right thing for you
[22:12] <lifeless> and the cleanup replace the original
[22:12] <james_w> lifeless: generally it as as the code under test will usually do something like "import json; except ImportError: import simplejson as json"
[22:13] <lifeless> so, I'd be tempted to have a local module
[22:13] <lifeless> json_impl
[22:13] <lifeless> which does from json import * / from simplejson import *
[22:13] <james_w> he has one of those actually
[22:14] <lifeless> then replacing just it at runtime is reasonable clean
[22:15] <james_w> lifeless: replacing in terms of mucking about with sys.modules?
[22:15]  * james_w has never got that involved in import machinery
[22:16] <lifeless> well
[22:16] <lifeless> so lets say there is module A
[22:16] <lifeless> which does 'import json_impl as json'
[22:16] <lifeless> that means that you have the name json bound to the module currently in sys.modules
[22:17] <lifeless> you have two places you can muck around with
[22:17] <lifeless> the bound name - rebind it to a new json_impl (e.g. directly to simplejson), or
[22:17] <lifeless> the module - change its contents (but not the module object itself)
[22:18] <lifeless> def change_impl(impl):
[22:18] <lifeless>     for name in dir(impl):
[22:18] <lifeless>         globals()[name] = getattr(impl, name)
[22:18] <lifeless> if that existing in json_impl
[22:18] <lifeless> existed
[22:18] <lifeless> you could call
[22:18] <lifeless> json_impl.change_impl(simplejson)
[22:19] <lifeless> et voila
[22:19] <james_w> gotcha, thanks
[22:19] <lifeless> if there are many A's, then mucking with the module contents is easier.
[22:19] <lifeless> if there is one A, changing the name binding is easier.
[22:20] <james_w> we may just support one implementation instead, but it's good to know we have this to ensure that both work if we choose to support both
[22:21] <lifeless> fairynuff
[22:21] <lifeless> what are you working on ?
[22:46] <james_w> lifeless: the launch-control project with Zygmunt that I think you know a bit about.
[23:06] <ovnicraft> hi folks i want to update my repo at N revno is posible this with bzxr pull revno?
[23:08] <ovnicraft> bzr*
[23:22] <lifeless> james_w: I'm not sure I do know that one :)
[23:29] <james_w> lifeless: a QA dashboard type thing, with automated test results against images
[23:30] <ovnicraft> is posible what i want to do?
[23:32] <lifeless> james_w: nice
[23:32] <beuno> ovnicraft, yes, bzr pull -r REVNO
[23:34] <ovnicraft> beuno, now if i pull without and -r options and i want to back in revno its posible?
[23:36] <beuno> ovnicraft, sure, you can "bzr revert -r REVNO
[23:42] <ovnicraft> beuno, the revert changes are left as uncommited code?
[23:44] <ovnicraft> revert works fine but when bzr revno show me the latest
[23:45] <maxb> ovnicraft: Hi, could you restate what exact effect you want to acheive?
[23:46] <ovnicraft> revno at my revert -r REVNO
[23:46] <ovnicraft> maxb, changes as uncommited can be logic
[23:46] <maxb> 'bzr revert -r X' sets the *content* of the tree to that of revision X, but does not change the tree's idea of what revision it is based on.
[23:47] <maxb> If you want to briefly inspect a previous revision, you probably want 'bzr update -r X' (only fully added in 2.2)
[23:50] <dev001> When I 'bzr pull' latest source, I get: Using saved parent location: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr-pqm/bzr/bzr.dev/; /usr/lib64/python2.6/site-packages/Crypto/Util/randpool.py:40: RandomPool_DeprecationWarning: This application uses RandomPool, which is BROKEN in older releases.  See http://www.pycrypto.org/randpool-broken
[23:50] <dev001> Is this a python issue, or a bzr prob?  the provided link is broken ...
[23:51] <ovnicraft> maxb, i tried bzr update -r X with 2.1.1
[23:52] <fullermd> dev001: It's paramiko fighting with pycrypto.
[23:53] <dev001> fullermd: gesundheit!! ;-)
[23:53] <dev001> so, which do I fix?
[23:54] <fullermd> Well, since pycrypto defines its API, paramiko by definition is the broken one.
[23:55] <fullermd> Back at the beginning of the year when the new pycrypto came out and started throwing errors, I just uninstalled paramiko, figuring it might take a few weeks for a fix.
[23:55] <fullermd> 'course, that was in January...
[23:56]  * dev001 digs around, trying to figure out wtf I need paramiko for ...
[23:57] <fullermd> ssh/sftp, if it's not using a system-installed (e.g. openssh)
[23:57] <fullermd> Still doesn't seem to be a patch in paramiko git  :|
[23:57] <dev001> fullermd: beat me to it ... just found the git, and was looking
[23:58] <fullermd> There's an issue filed for it on github frmo a while back too, with no comments.


[14:15] <Meizirkki> KDE 4.2 on Nokia n810: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/MerOnN810#5300841488593994434
[14:15] <Meizirkki> it runs "ok", but is there any tricks to make it faster?
[14:20] <persia> Meizirkki, The usual recommendation is to add more memory, but that's not easy for that device.  Is it thrashing, or is there some specific part that is slow?
[14:21] <Meizirkki> well, it runs somehow without swap, and 256mb swap makes it usable... it's just slow to use.
[14:22] <persia> Hard to say if it's too many instructions, or not enough working space.
[14:22] <persia> You might try asking in #kubuntu to see if anyone has any general KDE speed-up tricks.
[14:23] <Meizirkki> ok, thanks :)
[14:24] <Meizirkki> i'm surprised that it kde itself only takes about 110 mb memory.. but it's just hungry for cpu-power
[14:25] <persia> There's been a lot of work with KDE to try to keep the footprint down: it's not just for handhelds that it makes it feel faster :)
[14:25] <Meizirkki> yes, i remember how ugly kde 4.0 ran on my old pc
[14:25] <Meizirkki> kde 4.2 is a lot faster
[14:26] <Meizirkki> :P
[14:32] <Meizirkki> is jaunty using Qt 4.5??
[14:41] <persia> 4.4.3
[14:43] <Meizirkki> k
[14:44] <Meizirkki> ppl @ #kubuntu said Qt 4.5 would make things a lot faster
[14:47] <persia> Well, they should get the kubuntu-ninjas to upload it if they think so :)
[14:48] <Meizirkki> yeah, they also said it's a bit crashy ;)
[14:57] <persia> Ah, that explains why :)


[08:05] <RAOF> Today:
[08:05] <RAOF> * Clearing up some long-standing SRU jobs left over from yesterday
[08:05] <RAOF> * Fixing up little [WLCS buggies](https://github.com/MirServer/wlcs/pull/295)
[08:05] <RAOF> * Fixing up the screen copy tests (and wondering WTF was happening there in the past)
[17:12] <alan_g[m]> Today:... (full message at <https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/libera.chat/62ed71f7ca48b9d7f275b7a41397755759f19405>)
[21:52] <mattkae[m]> My Update:
[21:52] <mattkae[m]> - Explored a couple of possibilities 2148 and then opened up my first PR that half solves a problem: https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2975
[21:52] <mattkae[m]> - Tomorrow I will open up another PR that fully solves the problem 🙂


[11:34] <rmg51> Morning
[12:21] <InHisName> morning, rmg51
[12:38] <rmg51> o/
[16:38] <GeekyAdam> HAPPY SATURDAY!
[16:44] <GeekyAdam> think i'll attempt to tackle my smb shared drive structure today


[08:25] <as_> hello? i have a problem?
[08:25] <as_>  I use ubuntu14.04LTS, and when i hit the poweroff button at tty1-6, the system shutdown immediately?? is this a bug?


[09:17] <Sergobot> Riddell: are you here?
[12:19] <BluesKaj_> 'Morning folks
[12:30] <soee_> hiho BluesKaj_
[12:33] <BluesKaj_> hey soee
[17:12] <kranzer> Riddell: hi, are you here&
[17:12] <kranzer> ?
[18:30] <Pali> Riddell: ping, have you looked at my PPA?
[18:33] <murthy> shadeslayer: are you there?
[18:35] <murthy> yofel: are you there?
[18:35] <shadeslayer> yes
[18:35] <shadeslayer> ssup
[18:35] <murthy> shadeslayer: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1389847
[18:36] <murthy> shadeslayer: who is the maintainer of ubiquity-kde?
[18:36] <shadeslayer> no one
[18:36] <shadeslayer> more or less unmaintained
[18:36] <murthy> shadeslayer: Can you give me some direction on how to push for this bug \
[18:36] <shadeslayer> I can have a look
[18:37] <shadeslayer> murthy: so basically, you ran driver manager on a live medium
[18:37] <shadeslayer> and then ubiquity got blocked when it was doing it's thing
[18:37] <murthy> shadeslayer: no
[18:37] <murthy> the driver-manager is the sub process of the ubiquity
[18:38] <shadeslayer> can't be
[18:38] <shadeslayer> separate things
[18:38] <yofel> it is though
[18:38] <shadeslayer> what
[18:38] <murthy> ok let me explain
[18:38] <shadeslayer> driver-manager isn't supposed to be triggered by ubiquity afaik
[18:38] <yofel> ubiquity can install third party drivers during install if you check the "install 3rd party software" box
[18:39] <murthy> ps aux shows driver manager running and after that apt-get downloading the binary driver
[18:39] <shadeslayer> ahhh
[18:39] <yofel> it does that in the background, and the nvidia blob is pretty huge
[18:39] <murthy> ya
[18:39] <murthy> the thing is if the bug is in the 3rd party side i wont care but i feel the bug is in our side
[18:40] <shadeslayer> yofel: ah so it starts downloading things right after the system requirements page?
[18:40] <shadeslayer> I did not know that 0.o
[18:41] <yofel> I don't quite remember when exactly, but it does block on it at some point without visual indication that it's doing something
[18:41] <shadeslayer> ack
[18:42] <murthy> the wait for me is 53 mins
[18:42] <shadeslayer> murthy: might be useful to send a email to Kubuntu Devel if no one looks at it in a few weeks
[18:42] <shadeslayer> I might be able to, but can't say for sure
[18:42] <shadeslayer> maybe sgclark would like to learn about ubiquity :p
[18:43] <yofel> I *think* the idea was to install stuff like broadcom wifi drivers before continuing with the install, but the driver manager doesn't blacklist the nvidia one at that point
[18:43] <shadeslayer> mhh
[18:43] <yofel> because installing nvidia at this point is pretty useless
[18:43] <shadeslayer> one could potentially have some sort of timeout, that goes : "Downloading for > 15 mins, bugger it and proceed"
[18:46] <murthy> why is it blocking the main process?
[18:47] <yofel> if this really is about wifi drivers, then those should've finished installing before the wifi selection at the next step
[18:48] <murthy> good point
[18:51] <murthy> yofel: so konversation is default now?
[18:56] <yofel> dunno, our defaults for p5 aren't quite correct
[18:56] <yofel> e.g. konqueror is NOT the default browser
[18:57] <murthy> yofel: ok. got confused after I saw it in 15.04
[19:08] <sitter> yofel: I don't see how driver-manager factors into this?
[19:08] <sitter> the 3rdparty stuff is implemented in ubiquity
[19:12] <yofel> the third party installation stuff isn't re-implemented in ubiquity. It just tells u-d-m to install the drivers at that point
[19:12] <yofel> IIRC
[19:15] <sitter> there is no driver-manager package anymore
[19:15] <sitter> it's a query library nowadays
[19:15] <sitter> so the install happens in ubiquity
[19:58] <soee_> when will QT4 be availabel in Vivid ?
[19:58] <soee_> *5.4
[19:58] <shadeslayer> Depends on how much wine sitter gets
[19:59] <soee_> :)
[20:01] <kranzer> Riddell: hello, are you here?


[18:57] <ibeardslee> morning
[19:33] <ajmitch> morning
[19:34] <karora> morning
[19:45] <snail> morning
[20:11] <snail> amazing how much damage a single backhoe can do to the intertubes in this country
[20:16] <ibeardslee> yeap
[20:31] <ajmitch> someone decided to cut up a few strings?
[20:33] <ibeardslee> some power went boom
[20:35] <ajmitch> ah, the little problems in wellington
[21:22] <snail> myself and a government agency are having a disagreement over what constitutes a copyright license for content. anyone know whether there's a local version of debian-legal or any local debian-legal participant i can have a chat with?
[21:23] <ajmitch> for actual legal advice you'd want to talk to a lawyer
[21:24] <ajmitch> as nice as debian-legal is, it's still just opinions from people who don't necessarily have a firm grounding in law :)
[22:23] <mwhudson> morning
[22:23] <chrismsnz> morning


[10:52] <Whoopie> Hi, LocutusOfBorg asked me to address a current issue here: the kernel now has the modules for a Virtualbox guest included by default. What is missing, is the udev rule which is part of the virtualbox-guest-dkms package. I recommended to put it into the virtualbox-guest-x11 or virtualbox-guest-utils package. What's your opinion on that?
[10:54] <TJ-> Whoopie: it doesn't sound like something for the -x11 package, that's GUI/X-server specific isn't it?
[10:54] <Whoopie> yes
[10:54] <Whoopie> there're the libraries for 3D acceleration and some config files.
[10:55] <Whoopie> TJ-: in the virtualbox-guest-utils package, there's also /sbin/mount.vboxsf, which doesn't work properly without the udev rules.
[10:56] <TJ-> Whoopie: that seems to seal the decision then :)
[10:56] <Whoopie> or put the udev rule into the kernel package?
[10:57] <TJ-> I don't think so - the linux-image-* packages don't carry any udev rules currently
[10:58] <LocutusOfBorg> problem is the dependency chain
[10:58] <LocutusOfBorg> dpkg depends on utils, not the opposite
[10:59] <TJ->  is it for /lib/udev/rules.d/60-virtualbox.rules ?
[10:59] <Whoopie> TJ-: /lib/udev/rules.d/60-virtualbox-guest-dkms.rules
[10:59] <Whoopie> LocutusOfBorg: but -x11 depends on -utils, so it's always installed.
[11:01] <TJ-> dpkg depends on it?
[11:02] <LocutusOfBorg> people might have the utils without x11 and without dkms
[11:03] <TJ-> oh, DKMS not dpkg you meant?
[11:03] <LocutusOfBorg> yep
[11:03] <LocutusOfBorg> virtualbox-guest-dkms
[11:04] <Whoopie> LocutusOfBorg: then it doesn't hurt at all.
[11:06] <TJ-> hang on, if the kernel module is now in the linux-image then is there any need for virtualboc-guest-dkms at all? ?
[11:08] <LocutusOfBorg> TJ-, probably none, except for udev
[11:10] <TJ-> I don't see anything in the virtualbox-guest-dkms other than the udev rule that needs relocating, so that package could become virtual/meta(?) if the udev rule moved to virtualbox-guest-utils.
[11:11] <LocutusOfBorg> well, I don't usually trust the module on the kernel, I mean, kernel updates might break stuff, I prefer to have the possibility to choose my version in case of issues
[11:11] <LocutusOfBorg> the kernel modules are not mainline, they are updated from time to time
[11:12] <TJ-> My observations - probably needs someone more aware of the intricacies of package reorg than me, but I don't think the udev rule belongs in the linuximage package - certainly no others are currently
[11:12] <TJ-> LocutusOfBorg: ahh, i see, so just move the udev rule to virtualbox-guest-utils and keep guest-dkms as is otherwise
[11:15] <TJ-> if v-g-d gets installed on it's own with no other VB guest packages that's just the same as having linux-image-* installed; the udev rule is only required when of the v-g-{utils,x11} packages is installed, and -x1ll depends on -utils, so that sounds correct
[11:15] <TJ-> s/when of/when one of/
[11:16] <LocutusOfBorg> so x11 depends on utils, utils depends on dkms/source/virtual meta package
[11:16] <LocutusOfBorg> and the dkmd itself doesn't depend on anything else
[11:16] <LocutusOfBorg> *dkms
[11:16] <LocutusOfBorg> because also guest-source might provide kernel modules
[11:17] <LocutusOfBorg> "virtualbox-guest-modules" is provided by virtualbox-guest-dkms, virtualbox-guest-source -> (the deb created after the build), and the one provided by src:linux
[11:17] <TJ-> how will it work if the -dkms is installed - the kernel will have 2 identical modules, does modprobe know to prefer the /lib/modules/*/updates/dkms/ path to /lib/modules/*/kernel/ ?
[11:17] <LocutusOfBorg> yes the kernel will prefer the updates
[11:18] <LocutusOfBorg> I also patched dkms to not error out in case there is already one installed
[11:18] <LocutusOfBorg> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/dkms/2.3-3ubuntu5
[11:19] <TJ-> how does depmod handle that? there'll be 2 modules with identical symbols/aliases won't there?
[11:20] <LocutusOfBorg> the updates version is preferred, depmod knows that newer kernel modules might appear
[11:20] <LocutusOfBorg> we hacked some versioning inside the module, to make them differ in version
[11:20] <LocutusOfBorg> that dkms upload was to fix exactly that versioning check
[11:25] <TJ-> yeah, just been playing about with it to check
[11:26] <LocutusOfBorg> http://debomatic-amd64.debian.net/distribution#unstable/virtualbox/5.2.8-dfsg-7/buildlog
[11:26] <LocutusOfBorg> let me see
[12:40] <LocutusOfBorg> Whoopie, TJ- uploaded in unstable, will sync in Ubuntu if nobody complains
[12:40] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks for your help!
[12:40] <LocutusOfBorg> https://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/pkg-virtualbox/virtualbox.git/commit/?id=a58ce37a83a281baa85db238d28e6bc82b49114c
[12:40] <LocutusOfBorg> this is the diff
[13:02] <LocutusOfBorg> fortunately the udev rules has packagename in filename, so the mangling avoids me to add breaks+replaces
[13:05] <LocutusOfBorg> apw, ^^ so now we should have fixed that issue in the kernel
[13:05] <LocutusOfBorg> thanks to Whoopie and TJ- :)
[13:05] <apw> LocutusOfBorg, sounds good, i think
[14:16] <Whoopie> LocutusOfBorg: thank you!!!
[14:18] <Whoopie> LocutusOfBorg: "Make the guest-utils depends on dkms not vice-versa" -> so -utils always installs -dkms?
[14:23] <LocutusOfBorg> nope, utils depends on -dkms | -source | virtual version provided by dkms or source or kernel
[14:23] <LocutusOfBorg> virtualbox-guest-dkms (= ${source:Version}) | virtualbox-guest-source (= ${source:Version}) | virtualbox-guest-modules,
[14:23] <LocutusOfBorg> thi is the dependency
[14:24] <LocutusOfBorg> actually I could even remove and just depend on "virtualbox-guest-modules", because it is already provided by dkms
[14:24] <LocutusOfBorg> the problem is that installing guest-source is not sufficient to have a kernel module
[14:24] <LocutusOfBorg> you have to install guest-source, use module-assistant to build a custom .deb kernel module file, and then dpkg -i it (and this custom deb has the "Provide: virtualbox-guest-modules" )
[14:25] <LocutusOfBorg> so, depending on guest-source is theoretically wrong
[14:25] <Whoopie> ok, thanks for the explanation.
[14:25] <LocutusOfBorg> but I couldn't find a better
[15:18] <s10gopal> jsalisbury, tworevert is bad
[22:49] <phil42> if bionic will be on kernel 4.15,  why wasn't a longterm kernel chosen?
[23:13] <TJ-> phil42: because the mainline release cadence doesn't match Ubuntu releases.
[23:17]  * trippeh_ mumbles something about people wanting support for the latest radeons and stuff
[23:45] <phil42> it just seems to me like letting the kroah-hartman et al backport the fixes would be better
[23:52] <TJ-> The kernel team already does that and a lot more


[00:01] <TheMuso> Ouch.
[00:39] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks for that, I'll probably set things up to rebuild the files instead, and only have a text diff for that change, as it will likely be cleaner.
[00:40] <maco> ok. i wasnt sure about heavily modifying debian/rules just in ubuntu...seemed like merge hell
[00:40] <maco> but you have debian access so you can avoid that i guess :P
[00:40] <TheMuso> Yeah I don't mind doing that.
[03:03] <TheMuso> ./c
[04:34] <TheMuso> maco: Thanks for your work on espeak. I merged it into the git vcs branch for Ubuntu, as well as picking some other changes from Debian. I converted it to a patch, since Debian is using quilt v3 format, and I altered debian/rules to rebuild the english dictionary on package build.
[05:27] <maco> TheMuso: you rock
[06:17]  * AlanBell hugs maco and TheMuso
[09:49] <Fudge> what were you compiling espeak for guys
[09:53] <AlanBell> Fudge: to add pronunciation hints for "oneiric" and "ocelot"
[09:58] <Fudge> nice
[10:01] <Fudge> AlanBell  is it usable yet, oneiric?
[10:03] <AlanBell> it is getting there
[10:03] <AlanBell> there are significant improvements in the ubiquity installer about to arrive (not sure they made todays build)
[10:04] <AlanBell> there is a problem with unity and it reading out "button" for every app rather than the app name, but I think that will be fixed soon
[10:16] <Fudge> gets me why ubuntu has gone down this unity path
[10:17] <Fudge> think ill be happy with xfce is more accessible
[14:54] <AlanBell> what other burning issues are there for a11y in oneiric?
[14:55] <AlanBell> the installer is becoming reasonable
[14:55] <AlanBell> unity2d and orca are not exactly friends, but I think that might come together before release
[14:56] <AlanBell> onboard can type into unity 2d but not 3d
[14:57] <AlanBell> the release can pronounce it's own codename :)
[15:03] <AlanBell> Pendulum: any other bit issues you know about?
[15:08] <Pendulum> off the top of my head, no, but I haven't sorted through my bugmail recently ;-)
[16:47] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: hi
[16:47] <charlie-tca> Hello, AlanBell
[16:47] <AlanBell> what are the showstopper a11y bugs from your point of view now?
[16:48] <AlanBell> the installer is getting better
[16:48] <charlie-tca> I have to look again. Onboard is looking good. We still have at-spi crashing upgrades
[16:48] <AlanBell> onboard works with unity 2d but not 3d (works for applications in 3d, just not the dash)
[16:49] <charlie-tca> We can release note 2d for a11y
[16:49] <AlanBell> unity 2d and the "everything is called button" bug might get fixed
[16:49] <charlie-tca> That would be nice.
[16:50] <charlie-tca> I will look the list over today and see, but I don't know of any show-stoppers yet.
[16:51] <AlanBell> against all expectations this might come together as a decent release
[16:51] <charlie-tca> That would be really good
[16:54] <AlanBell> hopefully the LTS will be testable sooner so we are dealing with small bugs not show stoppers
[16:55] <AlanBell> we should line up a blog article for release day
[17:00] <charlie-tca> A blog article would be great. Especially with the Ctrl+s working
[17:01] <charlie-tca> But I won't have time to write that one
[17:04] <Pendulum> AlanBell: do you want to do it or I can?
[17:04] <AlanBell> we can both do it
[17:04] <AlanBell> but I need to do chargeable stuff this week :)
[17:47] <joanie> is there a supersecret keystroke to get to the top panel to choose shutdown from the login screen?
[17:47] <joanie> and then to give focus to the resulting window to choose restart/shutdown?
[17:54] <charlie-tca> F10 should get you to and from the panel, arrow keys navigate across
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Oh, login screen...
[17:55] <charlie-tca> Maybe it will work, maybe we have to wait for TheMuso to tell us the real keys
[17:57] <joanie> charlie-tca: thanks lemme try that. Although once I clicked the resulting dialog was still inaccessible
[17:57] <joanie> f10 sweet
[17:57] <joanie> thanks charlie-tca
[17:57] <charlie-tca> you are welcome
[17:57] <joanie> that just leaves the dialog (the "are you sure you want to close all programs bla bla" one)
[17:58] <joanie> oh nice, screen reader is in the Ubuntu/Unity accessibility menu :-)
[17:59] <charlie-tca> I have issues with those dialogs
[17:59] <charlie-tca> small gains, but important ones, too.
[17:59]  * joanie is setting up a dual-boot system with Unity and Fedora so that she can test everything
[18:00] <joanie> s/Unity/Ubuntu/ I need a nap it seems :-)
[21:59] <TheMuso> Unfortunately lightdm is still lacking some code to actually launch orca. A bug has been filed, but not much has happened with it yet...
[22:00] <TheMuso> Bug 850554
[22:00] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 850554 in unity-greeter "Enabling screen reader and on-screen keyboard options from the a11y indicator do not start the application in question." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/850554
[22:02] <charlie-tca> well, that is not the best thing going then :(
[22:03] <maco> crap
[22:03] <maco> TheMuso: lightdm is in what language?
[22:03] <TheMuso> maco: GObject C.
[22:03] <TheMuso> Sorry, the greeter is in vala.
[22:03] <TheMuso> So still GObject based.
[22:04] <maco> hmm ive never done vala, but ive used gobject before...
[22:04] <maco> i can attempt a look tonight
[22:04] <TheMuso> Ok thanks. Bare in mind what I said in that bug.
[22:09] <charlie-tca> And that brings me to a couple of other bugs, that I don't know how important it is to try and get fixed:
[22:09] <charlie-tca> bug 856782
[22:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 856782 in ubiquity "Prepare: Unable to read system requirements with a screen reader" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856782
[22:09] <charlie-tca> bug 856773
[22:09] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 856773 in ubiquity "Welcome Screen: Cannot reach 'release notes' link with keyboard only." [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/856773
[22:09] <charlie-tca> I think we can work around the second one by telling users to read the release notes before starting the install
[22:11] <charlie-tca> TheMuso: Can you push bug 781385 through tonight?
[22:11] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 781385 in ubiquity "Ubiquity GTK should have useful accessible names set in the Glade .ui files instead of using the variable names" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/781385
[22:11] <charlie-tca> It will be a lot better if we can get it through the queue
[22:11] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: Its in ubiquity already afaik, i.e in the source tree. It just requires Colin or Evan to upload it.
[22:12] <charlie-tca> Okay, I will ask them tomorrow to do that, then. It could sit through final if we don't insist on it, sometimes.
[22:37] <AlanBell> charlie-tca: I don't consider 856782 or 856773 to be show stoppers
[22:38] <AlanBell> 850554 is more so I think
[22:38] <charlie-tca> Oh, okay. I don't think we have any more besides 850554 that are, then
[22:41] <AlanBell> and for the lightdm bug, launching onboard is probably more critical than orca
[22:41] <AlanBell> assuming a single user system
[22:43] <TheMuso> AlanBell: I don't agree.
[22:43] <TheMuso> We have had accessible login for a while no, it is a regression if we don't have it.
[22:43] <charlie-tca> except if it doesn't autologin, in which case lightdm needs to kick orca
[22:44] <charlie-tca> I think with unity 2d/3d/xfce/gnome, users need to be able to use orca anywhere
[22:45] <TheMuso> charlie-tca: I feel that accessibility should be better next cycle, that is as long as DX/unity 2d devs don't go breaking things on us again.
[22:46] <charlie-tca> I have hopes, too
[22:46] <TheMuso> I will be doing more work to polish accessibility, both in the installer, and on the desktop in general.
[22:46] <AlanBell> TheMuso: yes, I want both orca and onboard to be startable at lightdm and it would be a regression
[22:46] <charlie-tca> If they don't break it completely, we should do well
[22:46] <TheMuso> Agreed.
[22:46] <TheMuso> My focus next cycle will be making things more accessible. I already have many a work item drafted for this.
[22:47] <AlanBell> my point was if you don't have a hard keyboard you are totally stuffed when typing your password
[22:47] <charlie-tca> My goal for accessibility should probably bringing the wiki up to date again
[22:48] <AlanBell> I am hoping that next cycle we spend longer finding and fixing smaller bugs
[22:48] <AlanBell> this time the huge issues have been getting in the way of finding the smaller ones
[22:49] <charlie-tca> Yup, Hopefully, we have accessibility working from at least alpha1, which would give us more time to find and fix things
[22:52] <AlanBell> I think the drums at the start of ubiquity are coming a bit early
[22:52] <AlanBell> if you hit ctrl+s when you hear the drums orca doesn't start
[22:53] <AlanBell> need to wait a few seconds before it is ready to listen to ctrl+s I think
[22:53] <charlie-tca> Something we note if it doesn't get fixed?
[22:54] <AlanBell> could be my machine being slow
[22:55] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Ok, something to experiment with in the P cycle, its just a matter of moving the call to play the sound.
[22:55] <TheMuso> AlanBell: Were you running from USB or CD?
[22:55] <AlanBell> cd that time
[22:55] <TheMuso> Right.
[22:55] <TheMuso> I must admit I have only tested with USB recently.
[22:55] <TheMuso> Hate wasting CD-Rs.
[22:55] <charlie-tca> Might be good to file a bug for it, so we don't lose it
[22:56] <TheMuso> I'll add it to my work items list
[22:56] <AlanBell> I have about a thousand CDRWs
[22:56] <TheMuso> As I am preparing a blueprint.
[22:56] <charlie-tca> Okay
[22:57] <AlanBell> I will try it again a few times, I have only observed it once
[22:57] <charlie-tca> I will too, but not today
[22:58] <AlanBell> maybe twice, I thought I had the wrong keystroke before but maybe it was a timing issue