[08:46] <pir2> I'll try seeing what happens in F1-F6, but I already went to F2 and had nothing there
[08:47] <brosioz> if i want to install some package of dapper
[08:47] <brosioz> i need to set pin on apt/preference ?
[08:47] <trispace> apt-cache rdepends libgamin0 shows a LOT of KDE dependencies
[08:47] <lpfan> #larsivi  can i pm you?
[08:48] <pir2> CU later, when I check
[08:48] <larsivi> lpfan: sure
[08:50] <lpfan> i d/l it i dont know where it went it didnt ask me to specify
[08:50] <larsivi> check your home dir
[08:51] <trispace> larsivi: i'm not sure if libgamin0 is the interface library to gamin or if the libgamin0 may be used without gamin (i.e for integrating dnotify or inotify)
[08:52] <larsivi> trispace: I don't know, but gam_server is only running here when I'm using firefox
[08:53] <trispace> larsivi: but it keeps running after you close firefox?
[08:53] <lpfan> ok im red/l it to home
[08:54] <lpfan> #larsivi  ok its done it in the home
[08:54] <larsivi> trispace: sometimes, and in those cases it continues to aquire more and more memory until it bogs down the machine
[08:55] <trispace> larsivi: yeah, same here
[08:55] <lpfan> what next?
[08:55] <eightiesk> would someone help me?
[08:56] <larsivi> trispace: it is apparently a known problem, will be fixed in the next version of gam_server (dapper)
[08:56] <larsivi> lpfan: now try running the install script
[08:57] <lpfan> i just clicked on the file and had to hit enter a million times but its workin so far
[08:57] <trispace> larsivi: hmm, i see
[08:57] <lpfan> hurray it worked
[08:59] <lpfan> next question when i got to the yahoo chat website it says Your browser is unable to support Java. Please enable Java and reload or try our HTML Client.
[08:59] <lpfan> im tryin to get into the yahoo chat rooms
[09:00] <larsivi> lpfan: In konqueror, go to settings - Java
[09:01] <lpfan> ok then what
[09:01] <larsivi> there you have to put /home/lpfan/dirtojava/j2re1.4.2/bin/java (correcting the path) in the "Path to Java"-box
[09:02] <RobinL> how do i completely switch to Kubuntu from Ubuntu?
[09:03] <cold> anyone know what parameters to pass to ubuntu installation disk to get it to boot my ubuntu distro ?
[09:04] <RobinL> how do i completely switch to Kubuntu from Ubuntu?
[09:05] <Fenix-TX> RobinL (i think) install kubuntu-desktop and remove gnome-desktop
[09:06] <larsivi> RobinL:  Or rather the other way round
[09:06] <larsivi> or not
[09:06] <larsivi> sorry
[09:07] <RobinL> ok
[09:07] <RobinL> and how to switch back?
[09:08] <larsivi> then it's the other way round :)
[09:08] <RobinL> remove kde-desktop install gnome-desktop?
[09:08] <Prozac> might install first then remove after
[09:08] <RobinL> ok :p
[09:09] <RobinL> ok it's busy installing now
[09:09] <RobinL> the problem with me is, that i keep switching back and forth
[09:09] <Prozac> just keep both
[09:09] <RobinL> and when i installed kubuntu, i can't seem to get rid of it, so i need to install whole ubuntu again
[09:09] <RobinL> Prozac: env vars?
[09:10] <Prozac> huh?
[09:10] <RobinL> when you go to GNOME
[09:10] <RobinL> some things are messed up
[09:10] <RobinL> like the look and stuff
[09:10] <Prozac> well I installed ubuntu and then added then kubunut desktop stuff
[09:10] <Prozac> i got no probs
[09:10] <lpfan> it says loading applet and never loads
[09:12] <RobinL> also, the kde apps are very different
[09:12] <RobinL> takes time to get used to
[09:12] <RobinL> oO
[09:14] <jonatan> hey, I'm new in kabunto, and I need some help with it, can any1 help me?
[09:15] <kkathman> jonatan: ask your question please
[09:15] <lpfan> how the hell do you install limewire
[09:15] <jonatan> well, I was trying to download Bittorrent, and I can't install it or anything, I'm not sure how
[09:16] <kkathman> jonatan: ktorrent is standardly installed on kubuntu though, use that
[09:16] <apokryphos_> !install
[09:16] <ubotu> rumour has it, install is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation
[09:16] <apokryphos_> kkathman: I'm not sure, but I'm guessing he hasn't installed yet
[09:17] <kkathman> apokryphos_: but bittorrent is under k-menu, internet  at the top
[09:17] <jonatan> I'm lost o.o
[09:17] <kkathman> thats standard
[09:17] <geirhard> does anyone know how to unrar a file with unrar-free?
[09:17] <apokryphos_> kkathman: as in installed kubuntu yet
[09:17] <apokryphos_> jonatan: have you installed Kubuntu?
[09:17] <jonatan> yes
[09:17] <apokryphos_> ok
[09:17] <jonatan> its the Os that I'm using right now, I think
[09:17] <apokryphos_> jonatan: and now what are you trying to do?
[09:17] <geirhard> I try unrar-free -x 'file path' 'destination' but i says "Failed"
[09:18] <Paradox^> do somone have a guide how to burn kubuntu live-cd with nero 7?
[09:18] <_mike> need help with firefox
[09:18] <_mike> how do i install version 1.5?
[09:18] <geirhard> does anyone know how to unrar a file with unrar-free? please
[09:19] <jonatan> crap srry back
[09:19] <apokryphos_> !tell Paradox^ about install
[09:19] <Fenix-TX> geirhard: unrar e file.rar
[09:19] <jonatan> ok, so if Bittorrent is already install how do I use it?
[09:19] <apokryphos_> geirhard: why not just use unrar-nonfree?
[09:21] <geirhard> i think you have to pay to use unrar-nonfree
[09:21] <geirhard> i do unrar e file.rar?
[09:22] <Fenix-TX> or unrar-free e file.rar
[09:22] <jonatan> how do I install bittorrent?
[09:22] <geirhard> grrrrrrrr it doesn't works
[09:23] <Fenix-TX> any error?
[09:23] <kkathman> jonatan:  sudo apt-get install bittorrent
[09:23] <geirhard> failed
[09:23] <jonatan> what sudo apt-get mean?
[09:23] <geirhard> after every file of the .rar file it says: "failed"
[09:24] <Fenix-TX> try install unrar-nonfree
[09:24] <geirhard> ok
[09:24] <RickKnight> Anyone here ablr to help with fglrx build problem?
[09:24] <_robin> ok
[09:24] <RobinL> ok.
[09:24] <RobinL> now...
[09:24] <RobinL> how to remove GNOME with all the apps?
[09:24] <lpfan> ok guys what can i use to use voice in yahoo messenger?
[09:25] <geirhard> thank you very much, i love youuuuuu!!! xD
[09:25] <lpfan> does gaim?
[09:25] <owner> lpfan, there is a program called gyach enhaned
[09:25] <owner> enhanced
[09:25] <owner> thats the only known program to have yahoo voice chat in linux
[09:26] <owner> but ive never got it to work properly
[09:27] <RobinL> how to remove GNOME with all the apps?
[09:28] <kkathman> RobinL:  sudo apt-get remove ubuntu-desktop
[09:28] <RobinL> doesn't work
[09:28] <eightiesk> how do i get my sound working ne 1 know?
[09:28] <lpfan> which one should i d/l owner
[09:29] <owner> i like gaim for yahoo chat
[09:29] <owner> but no voice chat
[09:29] <kkathman> eightiesk:  this is a good stzrt:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingSoundProblems?highlight=%28Sound%29
[09:30] <lpfan> does gaim enther yahoo chat sites?
[09:30] <eightiesk> no
[09:30] <kkathman> lpfan:  gaim works with msn, AOL, yahoo, Gadu-gadu- etc
[09:30] <kkathman> but not chat rooms
[09:31] <owner> gaim works well with yahoo chat
[09:31] <kkathman> its just a msg pgm
[09:31] <lpfan> ok should i dl the .rpm for  gyach
[09:31] <owner> you will have to convert it to a deb
[09:31] <owner> with alien
[09:32] <owner> btw gaim does have yahoo chat room ability
[09:32] <lpfan> lol damn where do i get that?
[09:32] <eightiesk> it doesn't in windows my mestake.
[09:33] <_mike> how do i install the newest versions of firefox and thunderbird?
[09:35] <owner> use automatix mike
[09:35] <owner> but forums are down
[09:35] <Xemanth^> _mike: x64 ?
[09:36] <gyuszk> rere
[09:36] <kkathman> NOOOO dont use automatix!!!!
[09:37] <kkathman> DO NOT use automatix!!!
[09:37] <kkathman> use EasyKubuntu instead!
[09:37] <lpfan> damn how do i install alientr.gz
[09:38] <lpfan> <--- goin insane
[09:38] <kkathman> lpfan: why?
[09:39] <lpfan> dont know hoe to install alien
[09:39] <owner> sudo apt-get install alien
[09:39] <kkathman> owner: please do NOT recommend automatix...its a very irresponsible program and not safe
[09:40] <owner> kkathman, automatix is relatively safe to use now
[09:40] <owner> imho
[09:40] <kkathman> owner not true unless they have removed the --force commands, which I believe the author was bullheaded and refused
[09:40] <kkathman> the --force command is the quickest way to break a system
[09:40] <owner> but i remember he said it no longer uses --force
[09:41] <kkathman> EasyKubuntu is the most safe
[09:41] <kkathman> and the most complee
[09:41] <kkathman> complete
[09:41] <kkathman> owner: not true I'm afraid
[09:41] <lpfan> ok installed now how to run it lol im such a damn newbie
[09:42] <owner> because he had edited the automatix post, to say it no longer uses --force and sets root pass
[09:42] <owner> but its not there anymore
[09:42] <kkathman> EasyKubuntu was a fork off of automatix, and was created by official ubuntu members, so I trust it MUCH more
[09:43] <owner> i think automatix was based on easyubuntu
[09:43] <owner> not sure about easy kubuntu
[09:43] <kkathman> owner other way around
[09:44] <lpfan> how do i run alien?
[09:44] <owner> sudo alien file.rpm
[09:44] <lpfan> i already installed it
[09:45] <Xemanth^> btw whats this sudo thingy?
[09:45] <Xemanth^> why cant it be normal su
[09:45] <lpfan> super user
[09:45] <larsivi> sudo is "safer"
[09:45] <Xemanth^> i know its super user but why its sudo
[09:45] <Xemanth^> safer
[09:45] <Xemanth^> ^^
[09:46] <larsivi> you don't stay in su mode using sudo
[09:46] <Xemanth^> in ubuntu root pass is same as user pass by default :D hows that safer
[09:46] <lpfan> ok im lost lol
[09:46] <lpfan> so how do i convert
[09:46] <Xemanth^> larsivi: yes you stay if you write sudo -s like i do everytime
[09:46] <lpfan> damn i hate newbies
[09:46] <lpfan> lol
[09:46] <eightiesk> you are a newbie
[09:47] <eightiesk> :-p
[09:47] <eightiesk> me 2
[09:47] <lpfan> i know
[09:47] <Xemanth^> me ? :DD
[09:47] <eightiesk> this is my first day on linux.
[09:47] <eightiesk> lmao
[09:47] <Xemanth^> me too :D
[09:47] <lpfan> no i was implyin it towards myself
[09:47] <larsivi> Xemanth^: yeah, and i do "sudo passwd" so I can use su
[09:47] <lpfan> me2
[09:47] <eightiesk> i just want firefox 1.5...
[09:47] <lpfan> ive tryed suse before and i hated it
[09:47] <eightiesk> i dunno how to insatall it from source.
[09:48] <lpfan> i dont know why didnt feel right
[09:48] <Xemanth^> larsivi: yeah but in debian you write su if you want to be root
[09:48] <lpfan> #larsivi how do i run alien i installed it
[09:48] <Xemanth^> but in kubuntu its sudo, its confusing me alot
[09:49] <larsivi> Xemanth^: yeah, and if you do "sudo passwd" you set root's password so you can do su
[09:49] <eightiesk> lpfan, type in  sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop.
[09:49] <shawkins> Xemanth^: in kubuntu you can use su
[09:49] <eightiesk> that might be ezer for you
[09:49] <eightiesk> lol
[09:49] <lpfan> ah
[09:49] <shawkins> Xemanth^: after you do. what larsivi  said
[09:49] <Xemanth^> well my su doesn't accept any pass
[09:49] <larsivi> lpfan: no idea, I've never used alien
[09:49] <larsivi> have you tried "sudo passwd" yet?
[09:49] <shawkins> Xemanth^: do....... 'sudo passwd root'
[09:50] <Xemanth^> not atm kubuntu open
[09:50] <shawkins> well once you do that su will work fine..
[09:51] <eightiesk> ne one know how to install a program from source?
[09:51] <Xemanth^> i think kubuntu should include to installed su password
[09:52] <lpfan> i think i did it its downloading crap
[09:52] <Xemanth^> it rapes linux's safety :|
[09:52] <Xemanth^> k s
[09:52] <Xemanth^> installer* i mean
[09:52] <SkrotFFS> Does make oldconfig check the .config, or /boot/<currentconfig>?
[09:52] <owner> su is locked with unbreakable password
[09:52] <owner> unless it specifically set by user
[09:53] <owner> ubuntu copied this from mac osx
[09:53] <larsivi> and only the user should know the user's password, thus fairly safe
[09:53] <larsivi> if you do sudo (and not sudo -s) it's even more safe
[09:54] <larsivi> Xemanth^: it's you breaking the safety with -s ;)
[09:54] <lpfan> so do you guys know a good guide thats easy to understand that goes over the basics?
[09:55] <lpfan> *of linux
[09:55] <eightiesk> anyone here know  where i might find a driver for http://www.lexmark.com/uncomplicate/product/home/38/0,7044,204816596_237485130_243418022_en_0_1,00.html
[09:56] <Xemanth^> larsivi: i do compiling only with -s
[09:56] <Xemanth^> i do alot stuff which need root previlidges
[09:57] <vge> can somebody tell little program like ms calculator for kde?
[09:57] <larsivi> kcalc or speedcrunch
[09:57] <vge> ty
[09:58] <Xemanth^> i like kcalc
[09:58] <lpfan> what was the name of that im prog
[09:58] <vge> let's see what synapsic gave me
[09:59] <vge> what i needed, ty
[09:59] <lpfan> gyim?
[10:00] <eightiesk> gaim
[10:00] <eightiesk> i use it in windows 2
[10:00] <eightiesk> its the best.
[10:00] <lpfan> no the one that supports voice
[10:01] <lpfan> i found it
[10:01] <lpfan> #larsivi ok i did what you said but it isnt on the desktop?
[10:03] <larsivi> lpfan: what don't you find on the desktop?
[10:03] <lpfan> alien i thought it would installl it to the desktop
[10:05] <larsivi> lpfan: the only thing I said about alien is that I've never used it :P
[10:05] <lpfan> o that was eight
[10:05] <lpfan> lol
[10:05] <dah> hi everyone, i'm a kubuntu newby. am i right here?
[10:06] <matchthis> must go today message me if interestedon aim at mikcomputing, msn at<EMAIL_ADDRESS>or yahoo at mcsltd2 only if your interested and want to buy! .  prices are 550 each includes shipping case and wireless router.2 alienware products, 1 area51-m 5700 notebook, and one area51 7500 desktop tower system.
[10:06] <lpfan> i did this
[10:06] <lpfan> ype in  sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop.
[10:06] <lpfan> should that install to desktop
[10:06] <Xemanth^> gnome suxor
[10:06] <Xemanth^> :)
[10:07] <lpfan> how do i run it?
[10:07] <larsivi> can an op kill matchthis?
[10:08] <lpfan> wii an op shoot me between the eys
[10:08] <lpfan> lol
[10:09] <lpfan> haha
[10:09] <pr1r> hey all
[10:09] <lpfan> so i install an app how do i run it?
[10:09] <vge> type the name on console
[10:10] <owner> ubuntuforums are back up
[10:10] <C-O-L-T> kkathman: hello
[10:14] <lpfan> alien -d Gyach-Enhanced-pYVoiceChat-1.0.7-1.i586.rpm
[10:14] <lpfan> typed this
[10:14] <lpfan> says file not found and its on desktop
[10:15] <qm> Need asstance getting Kubuntu on my Dell laptop to operate an HP Officejet 7410
[10:16] <larsivi> lpfan: alien -d Desktop/Gy... etc
[10:18] <C-O-L-T> kkathman: ??
[10:19] <pr1r> anyone running 2 monitors on 2 graphics cards or know how to do that??? thanks in advance
[10:20] <SpentCasing> is there any list of wireless cards that work with kubuntu, cause i cant get mine to work at all
[10:21] <lpfan> ah ha got it
[10:21] <owner> in general any cards that work in linux should work in ubuntu
[10:22] <SpentCasing> it claims to work, but im testing on live cds before i put it back on my hd
[10:22] <lpfan> how do install gyach to desktop usin alien i type alien -d-i then blah blah blah how do i specify it to install to desktop?
[10:23] <lpfan> and gyach you can gointo chat roms
[10:23] <owner> dpkg -i filename.deb
[10:23] <owner> sudo dpkg -i filename.deb
[10:24] <lpfan> and it block the porn bots awesome
[10:24] <owner> if gyach crashes
[10:24] <owner> turn off animated smileys in options
[10:24] <owner> thats a known bug
[10:24] <larsivi> SpentCasing: I have the intel 2200, it's working fairly well, at least as long as you don't use WPA encryption
[10:26] <luka74> I have ipw2200 and WPA is also working well
[10:26] <luka74> On Breezy it just requires latest drivers (not the built in ones)
[10:27] <SpentCasing> it is a b/g card, so its 2200 right?
[10:28] <larsivi> luka74: is wpa working with the currently provided breezy kernel? do you use wpa_supplicant?
[10:28] <luka74> I use wpa_supplicant and ipw2200-1.0.10
[10:29] <larsivi> And you didn't have to recompile the kernel?
[10:29] <starhawk> hi
[10:30] <luka74> kernel is 2.6.12-10-686 - I have just compiled ieee80211 and ipw2200 drivers
[10:30] <larsivi> ok, I suppose I haven't tried that with breezy, in hoary you had to recompile the kernel too
[10:30] <luka74> I just followed instructions from ubuntuforums...
[10:31] <hawking> anyone who knows about configuring ethernet for a static network ( no dhcp) I had a static IP which I used but now a new one is assigned to me and I can't change it.. I change it from network settings and apply it .. when I enable the device it's back to the old IP what may be the problem?
[10:31] <luka74> SpentCasing: do you have any security on your AP? WEP? WPA?
[10:32] <SpentCasing> luka74: nope
[10:32] <starhawk> I am running kubunta and after a few hours of running it locks up in sleep mode or habernation I have to shut down with the power button because hitting the keys on the keyboard or anything else wont wake it up any help with this
[10:34] <SpentCasing> see i hade breezy on my laptop, got my card (proxim 8470-WD /atheros chipset) and i couldnt get it to work, wireless was a must so i installed xp, now i have some down time and i want to get back to breezy, but i want to try it on a live cd first to avoid any more aggrivation
[10:34] <luka74> SpentCasing: did you try to run iwconfig from Konsole? There is also nice WLAN troubleshooting guide at wiki.ubuntu.com
[10:35] <hawking> no ideas?
[10:35] <SpentCasing> i did try iwconfig, i didnt check the forums though, thx
[10:37] <starhawk> I am running kubunta and after a few hours of running it locks up in sleep mode or habernation I have to shut down with the power button because hitting the keys on the keyboard or anything else wont wake it up any help with this
[10:37] <luka74> SpentCasing: start here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WifiDocs - hope it will work for you.
[10:37] <SpentCasing> im new to linux and not that good yet, so these little things get overwhelming fast
[10:37] <SpentCasing> luka74: thank you
[10:39] <hawking> anyone who knows about configuring ethernet for a static network ( no dhcp) I had a static IP which I used but now a new one is assigned to me and I can't change it.. I change it from network settings and apply it .. when I enable the device it's back to the old IP what may be the problem?
[10:41] <tictric> hawking: look in /etc/network/interfaces
[10:41] <hawking> tictric : I have changed that too
[10:41] <tictric> then you did /etc/init.d/networking restart ?
[10:41] <hawking> hmm no lemme try that
[10:42] <hawking> I did ifdown eth0 and ifup eth0
[10:42] <tictric> that's essential :)
[10:42] <hawking> trying :)
[10:44] <hawking> tictric : didn't change
[10:44] <tictric> well, I don't know what you've done to your installation :)
[10:44] <luka74> hawking: do you have nm-applet running (maybe messing with your config)?
[10:45] <hawking> luka74 : nope
[10:47] <hawking> that's too weird
[10:48] <tictric> hawking: what about your network settings in kde? Though I don't know what happens if you change stuff there
[10:49] <tictric> or just paste your interfaces to some pastebin to have a look at it
[10:49] <hawking> well changing network settings in kde changes /etc/network/interfaces
[10:50] <tictric> hawking: never used kde config stuff for hardware. can't tell. I mean hal'
[10:50] <tictric> is pretty weird too
[10:50] <tictric> just paste it
[10:50] <hawking> paste what? /etc/network/interfaces?
[10:51] <tictric> why not?
[10:51] <hawking> ok
[10:51] <hawking> wait a sec
[10:52] <hawking> tictric : http://rafb.net/paste/results/TS3lps39.html
[10:53] <tictric> just disable that mapping stuff if you don't need it and put in
[10:53] <tictric> auto eth0
[10:53] <hawking> hmm okie tryin
[10:55] <hawking> still same ip
[10:55] <tictric> hawking: what did you do?
[10:56] <hawking> tictric : I have put auto eth0 instead of that hotplug stuff and then /etc/init.d/networking restart and ifdown eth0 ifup eth0
[10:56] <luka74> hawking: is it possible that dhclient is still running?
[10:56] <hawking> luka74 : how can i check?
[10:57] <luka74> ps -ef | grep dhclient
[10:57] <hawking> with dhclient you mean the dhcp client? if so I have disabled dhcp afaik
[10:57] <Twan> Ok...anyway I can open a file in /etc/ and be able to modify it? I'm logged in as root but still am getting permission denied...
[10:58] <hawking> luka74 : it gives this root     22364 21247  0 23:58 pts/6    00:00:00 grep dhclient
[10:58] <tictric> hawking: what's ifconfig sayin?
[10:58] <hawking> it tells me the old ip
[10:59] <luka74> hawking: this is really strange. Can you search for your old IP in /etc?
[10:59] <Twan> So does anyone know how I can launch a .conf file from terminal?
[10:59] <hawking> luka74 : what's the command to do that?
[10:59] <hawking> sry I forgot
[10:59] <luka74> sudo grep -r IP /etc
[11:00] <luka74> (IP is your IP number)
[11:00] <tictric> grep -ri '<IP_ADDRESS>' /etc/*
[11:00] <hawking> ok
[11:00] <tictric> dont forget the quotes
[11:00] <MrJangles> whats the best ftp software for kde?
[11:00] <tictric> MrJangles: konqueror
[11:01] <MrJangles> its also ftp?
[11:01] <tictric> MrJangles: it's almost everything :)
[11:01] <hawking>  it gives this /etc/network/interfaces~:address IP
[11:01] <hawking> silly backup file
[11:01] <hawking> might that be the reason?
[11:02] <MrJangles> tictric: awesome :) thanks
[11:02] <luka74> remove it ant try again - it would be stupid though...
[11:02] <tictric> Twan if you are root you can change the file
[11:02] <tictric> very stupid
[11:02] <tictric> if not to say impossible
[11:02] <hawking> luka74 : yeah nothin changed
[11:03] <hawking> that's too weird
[11:03] <Twan> Does anyone know how to use vsftpd (very secure ftp daemon)
[11:03] <tictric> hawking: you're not mixin up two different shells via ssh?
[11:04] <tictric> I mean. Changin the local interfaces and restartin the remote?
[11:04] <tictric> that's not uncommon :-)
[11:04] <MrJangles> tictric: i just connect using the url tab?
[11:04] <hawking> tictric : huh? no...
[11:05] <hawking> I had a running ssh server I closed it and tried again.. didnt work
[11:05] <y_o_u> anyone able to help me get synaptics up and running, or point me to a guide/howto? apt-get install synaptic isnt working, not sure about next step. thanks
[11:05] <tictric> MrJangles: type ftp://user@server and see what happens
[11:06] <MrJangles> tictric: yea, but any web browser is capable of that. i was thinking 3rd party software
[11:06] <tictric> hawking: I don't know what you are doin but what you are sayin is technically impossible
[11:06] <MrJangles> tictric: ftp through a web browser is very basic
[11:07] <tictric> MrJangles: just try it. you won't see a difference to your local files
[11:07] <tictric> it can do sftp too
[11:07] <MrJangles> ya its ok, its basic web browser ftp, not exactly what i'm looking for
[11:07] <tictric> and what more do you expect from a ftp client then to move and delete files and directorys
[11:08] <tictric> no, it's not basic web browser
[11:09] <MrJangles> i have several servers, organization is important
[11:09] <tictric> I have several servers too and I don't even use ftp
[11:09] <MrJangles> are you connecting remotely?
[11:10] <tictric> scp, rsync
[11:10] <MrJangles> ya, my sites dont use that
[11:11] <MrJangles> i've been using ftp software, and thats what i'm comfortable with
[11:11] <tictric> MrJangles: you have to work with it. Not I :-)
[11:11] <MrJangles> lol
[11:12] <Sean> hey
[11:12] <MrJangles> so, does anyone know good ftp software for ubunt? ... =P
[11:12] <Sean> can someone help me with a problem im having?
[11:12] <tictric> I just happen to like konqueror better than gftp for example
[11:12] <MrJangles> ah
[11:13] <tictric> so try gftp if you need the real ftp feeling
[11:13] <MrJangles> i wanna learn how to sync my sites
[11:13] <tictric> with konqui you got just some sort of harddisk feeling which you might not find useful :-)
[11:14] <Sean> hi
[11:14] <MrJangles> lol, i've been playing in windows all my life, you understand ;-)
[11:15] <Ragion> hey can someone help me out with a problem im having with kubunut?
[11:15] <tictric> MrJangles: well windows is not very good at networking anyway. But you'll find out yourself.
[11:15] <tictric> good night everybody
[11:16] <Ragion> when i start up, everyone loads up fine in the command screen, but then the screen just shows these weird colors and lines right before the X starts up
[11:16] <hawking> i did it!! :)
[11:16] <hawking> ifupdown-clean force-reload
[11:16] <MrJangles> tictric: i just rid of my windows recently, i'm still adjusting
[11:17] <Ragion> hello?
[11:17] <orion_fr_24> hello from france everybody
[11:17] <orion_fr_24> I just need a quick advice
[11:17] <orion_fr_24> I d like to create a basic website
[11:18] <orion_fr_24> I m looking for an HTML edito
[11:18] <orion_fr_24> sonething quite easy to use
[11:18] <Ragion> bluefish
[11:18] <MrJangles> vi
[11:18] <hawking> bluefish is cool really
[11:18] <orion_fr_24> haaa haaa haaa
[11:18] <hawking> or viM
[11:18] <MrJangles> ;-)
[11:18] <orion_fr_24> not vi thank yopu
[11:18] <Ragion> can anyone see what im typing?
[11:19] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: yes we can
[11:19] <MrJangles> Ragio: yes
[11:19] <hawking> I do
[11:19] <Ragion> does anyone know a way to help with my problem?
[11:19] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: thank you for the advice
[11:19] <vge> orion_fr_24: i would suggest quanta
[11:19] <Ragion> your welcome
[11:19] <orion_fr_24> vge quanta or bluefish ??
[11:19] <orion_fr_24> lol
[11:19] <Ragion> blue
[11:20] <vge> try bought
[11:20] <orion_fr_24> vge: good idea
[11:20] <orion_fr_24> vge: ;)
[11:20] <Ragion> how do i set my resolution when i load kubuntu?
[11:20] <Ragion> what would that command be?
[11:21] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: it is not a command
[11:21] <Ragion> im loading from grub
[11:21] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: you have to setup your config file
[11:22] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: but I dont know how
[11:22] <Ragion> after all the processes start, and gnome is about to load, the screen goes real bad (i.e. pink lines)
[11:22] <Ragion> i was thinking the resolution might be too large or somethin
[11:22] <Skrot> I've got a problem when starting KDE via KDM: "No write access to '/home/magnus/.ICEauthority'" how do I fix that? magnus is my normal user and KDM is started at boot
[11:22] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: why are you on kubuntu channel if you use gnome ??? kubuntu is on KDE
[11:23] <Ragion> haha i mean KDE
[11:23] <Ragion> sorry
[11:23] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: you should try #ubuntu
[11:23] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: hoo ok
[11:23] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: wich distro of kubuntu do you have ???
[11:23] <Ragion> dapper\
[11:23] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: the last one ?
[11:24] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: dapper ??? it is so old
[11:24] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: why dont you upgrade to Breezy ??
[11:24] <Ragion> wait, which one is the newest
[11:24] <Ragion> as in not even out
[11:24] <orion_fr_24> breezy
[11:24] <Ragion> flgiht 3
[11:25] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: let s go on one to one chat
[11:25] <Ragion> how?
[11:25] <orion_fr_24> check the tabs at the bottom you should see my nuckname
[11:25] <orion_fr_24> nickname
[11:26] <vge> just type /msg other nic to privatechat
[11:26] <Ragion> ugh ive gotta resigter
[11:26] <larsivi> orion_fr_24: dapper is the one that is to come after breezy, it's hoary that is old
[11:26] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: u sure ?
[11:26] <larsivi> yes
[11:26] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: ok I thought it was breezy
[11:27] <larsivi> breezy is the current release, dapper is in alpha testing
[11:27] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: thx for that
[11:27] <larsivi> dapper flight 3 is the latest alpha release (see topic of this channel)
[11:28] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: ok and is it stable or not ??
[11:29] <Ragion> no
[11:29] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: beurk
[11:30] <larsivi> orion_fr_24: I don't know how stable it is, I use breezy, but some think it is somewhat stable
[11:30] <larsivi> Probably depends on how lucky you are with your updates
[11:30] <orion_fr_24> Ragion: it s not really good to use alpha release
[11:30] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: I think so
[11:30] <Ragion> should i get breezy
[11:30] <Ragion> and try things with that?
[11:30] <larsivi> orion_fr_24: someone needs to test :)
[11:30] <Prozac> Anybody know a program that will tell me what kind of Motherboard i have ?
[11:31] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: not ne I m not good enough for that
[11:31] <orion_fr_24> larsivi: i m still a newbie
[11:31] <orion_fr_24> lol
[11:31] <Ragion> prozac, do you have windows also?
[11:31] <Prozac> nop
[11:31] <Ragion> alright
[11:31] <Ragion> then im not sure with linux
[11:32] <_arafat> Prozac: maybe lsci -v will tell you...
[11:32] <nat> Hi, I've a quesiton about KDE and its autostart function
[11:32] <_arafat> lspci
[11:32] <Prozac> need to do a bios upgrade, but dont know what motherboard i have, only know the bios name/version
[11:33] <nat> I put a file named "gaim" with the approprate text in to lauch gaim a the startup of kde but it's launching gaim 2 times
[11:33] <nat> do you know where is my mistake ?
[11:33] <Zappa> yeah, it automatically starts gaim anyway if gaim is open when you logged out/shut down
[11:34] <nat> a ok :)
[11:34] <nat> thks
[11:51] <ubuntu_6> Are the ubuntu forums down?
[11:52] <DrCurl> Hi all
[11:52] <ubuntu_6> hi
[11:52] <DrCurl> is there some user here that used also Ubuntu?
[11:52] <ubuntu_6> I used ubuntu
[11:52] <ubuntu_6> DrCurl are you able to get to the ubuntu forums?
[11:53] <DrCurl> it's because I tried Ubuntu and was disapointed by its performance
[11:53] <ubuntu_6> I'm currently looking for a new distro =P
[11:53] <DrCurl> I would like to know if Kubuntu performs better
[11:53] <ubuntu_6> my personal opinion is no.
[11:54] <ubuntu_6> but I'm not sure =P
[11:54] <DrCurl> ubuntu_6: why are you looking for another distro?
[11:54] <ubuntu_6> because I'm bored with ubuntu and its a bit slow
[11:54] <ubuntu_6> need somthing new
[11:54] <ubuntu_6> don't know what to try
[11:55] <DrCurl> Can someone tell me how much RAM is used once Kubuntu is loaded? under slack, KDE use around 70 megs on a 256 megs system once loaded
[11:55] <DrCurl> but Ubuntu used all of my available resosources :|
[11:55] <unf> hello
[11:56] <unf> does anyone use yakutake?
[11:56] <a-priori> for reference, with a bunch of stuff open, I'm using 245MB now
[11:56] <DrCurl> ok
[11:56] <ubuntu_6> DrCurl, I don't think your going to be able to use KDE with a system that only has 256mb of ram
[11:56] <ubuntu_6> try somthing a bit lighter like XFCE, or fluxbox
[11:57] <a-priori> ubuntu_6: doing it right now :)
[11:57] <ubuntu_6> are the ubuntu fourms down guys?
[11:57] <ubuntu_6> I can't get to them
[11:57] <unf> does anyone know which g++ version may i use to compile yakutake?
[11:57] <orion_fr_24> howw ccann i chhecck theee  vverssioon i m runniinnng oon ?
[11:58] <ubuntu_6> uname -somthing
[11:58] <ubuntu_6> lol
[11:58] <ubuntu_6> I forgot wich switch it takes
[11:58] <ubuntu_6> h/o
[11:58] <ubuntu_6> uname -a :P
[11:58] <ubuntu_6> or if your talking about g++ try g++ --version
[12:00] <orion_fr_24> ubuntu_6: ok thx
[12:02] <cold> I want to make a ubuntu bootdisk on cdrom, could someone tell me what files I need to copy ?
[12:02] <orion_fr_24> cold: there a premade bootable CD u can download


[09:51] <lapo> hi
[11:25] <kwwii> hi lapo
[11:26] <lapo> ciao kwwii
[11:26] <lapo> the updated bg is nicer, bravo
[11:27] <lapo> there's a bit more banding but it's less grainy
[11:30] <kwwii> thanks...it is a lot lighter, seemed like a good trade off to me
[11:39] <lassegul> kwwii: you have a link?
[11:40] <lassegul> good morning btw.
[11:50] <kwwii> lassegul: it should be in an update to the package if you are running gutsy
[12:11] <lassegul> kwwii: im at work.
[12:11] <kwwii> lassegul: hrm, check it when you get home :-)
[12:11] <kwwii> lassegul: it is the one I showed a few days ago
[12:12] <lassegul> ok.
[12:13] <kwwii> http://sinecera.de/warty-final-ubuntu.png
[12:15] <lassegul> very good.
[12:15] <lassegul> thx
[12:19] <kwwii> np
[01:19] <andreasn> kwwii: the meeting-thing was at 17:00 today, right?
[01:20] <andreasn> was it in here or in #ubuntu-meeting(?)?
[01:20] <nothlit> ubuntu-meeting
[01:20] <nothlit> its not for another 6 hours
[01:21] <kwwii> andreasn: yepp
[01:21] <kwwii> a little more than 5.5 hours from now
[01:21] <andreasn> 17:00 regular german/swedish time, or uk time?
[01:22] <kwwii> 17:00 UTC
[01:22] <kwwii> so 18:00 in the UK, 19:00 CET
[01:22] <nothlit> andreasn: the wiki link has the time conversions by country for europe
[01:23] <andreasn> nothlit: url?
[01:23] <nothlit> -!- Topic for #Ubuntu-Artwork: Meeting Tuesday Oct 2nd in #ubuntu-meeting (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Meetings has a list of topics)
[01:23] <andreasn> heh, sorry :)
[01:23] <nothlit> lol, no i was just too lazy to extract the url specific part :P
[01:59] <kwwii> the best way to hide information is to put it in a wiki :p
[02:02] <lassegul> kwwii: when people go here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork they dont see the subpages?
[02:03] <kwwii> lassegul: they are too lazy to scroll down to the bottom I guess
[02:04] <kwwii> I want ot redo that page so that things are much clearer
[02:04] <kwwii> with more direct links, etc
[02:05] <lassegul> kwwii: when was site navigation placed at the bottom. People arent used to that.
[02:18] <kwwii> lassegul: about two years ago
[02:18] <nothlit> lassegul: i put a link to the hardy page on the artwork page
[02:18] <nothlit> lassegul: and the hardy page has a bolded blurb about the meeting
[02:18] <nothlit> lassegul: the site navigation thing is an automatic wiki feature for subpages
[02:22] <lassegul> nothlit kwwii sorry, i understood this, i was just saying, its very seldom you come across sites that has site navigation at the bottom.
[02:23] <kwwii> lassegul: perhaps we should move it to the top
[02:24] <lassegul> kwwii: that sounds smart.
[02:28] <kwwii> lassegul: one of the things i would like to do at UDS is to straighten out the entire /Artwork wiki format and fill it with usefull information
[02:34] <lassegul> kwwii: absolutely
[02:48] <trunx> heyho
[02:48] <nothlit> hihi
[02:49] <trunx> im the "new one" ... so im here for the first time :)
[04:56] <terlmann> meeting in three hours :-)
 kwwii: when people go here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork they dont see the subpages?
 lassegul: they are too lazy to scroll down to the bottom I guess
[04:57] <troy_s> You can move that autoscript subpage accumulator to the top or whatever.
[04:59] <lassegul> troy_s: good. ill look into that.
[05:00] <lassegul> ok ill leave now. see you guys later at the meeting.
[05:18] <newz2000> when is the meeting, a little under 1 hour 45 min from now?
[05:20] <terlmann> yea
[05:20] <terlmann> UTC 1700
[05:21] <newz2000> thanks
[06:46] <bersace> Soo, meetings in 15 minutes ?
[06:47] <nothlit> yeah
[06:49] <bersace> :)
[06:55] <kwwii> anyone who isn't there yet...the meeting is starting in 5min in #ubuntu-meeting
[07:00] <bersace> :x
[07:00] <Misosaki> lols
[08:01] <lassegul> The only time I really need it, my internet goes down.
[08:01] <bersace> hh :)
[08:02] <lassegul> it never does. and im  a support guy employed by my ISP.
[08:02] <lapo> ok, so what we ended up with? :-
[08:02] <lapo> )
[08:02] <troy_s> LOL
[08:02] <_MMA_> damianvila: You need to identify your nick or we cant talk in PMs. :)
[08:03] <Misosaki> When will the next meeting be?
[08:03] <lassegul> UDS?
[08:03] <damianvila> _MMA_ For some strange reason, it does not recognize my password :-P
[08:03] <damianvila> I don't know how to recover it :-P
[08:04] <lassegul> damianvila: http://freenode.net ?
[08:04] <troy_s> damianvila: Reset it with Nickserv methinks.
[08:05] <damianvila> I'll try... (I'm pretty lame with IRC, as you can see)
[08:06] <nothlit> _MMA_: /quote NICKSERV SET UNFILTERED ON
[08:08] <lassegul> brb
[08:10] <terlmann> I stayed away during the meeting
[08:10] <terlmann> wanted to see how it went
[08:10] <terlmann> naturally I think you all did it wrong :=D
[08:10] <terlmann> but I degress
[08:16] <Misosaki> When will the gallery system be up?
[08:16] <troy_s> Misosaki: It is funny, every time everyone starts talking about u-art, it turns to this other website -- art.ubuntu.com.
[08:16] <nothlit> no wonder why the fedora wiki is clean, they all sign a contributor agreement with a gpg key
[08:17] <troy_s> Misosaki: I said long ago that it is a PITA to maintain a site and a good number of people (including sabdfl) insisted it happen.
[08:17] <troy_s> Misosaki: It sat there for god knows how long untouched.
[08:17] <troy_s> Misosaki: Much like the site prior to it.
[08:17] <nothlit> Write this all up in a page right here on the wiki, and add it to the "List of Submissions" section below. Please do not ask a friend to upload it for you - you must sign the Fedora CLA before we can accept your artwork for potential inclusion in Fedora.
[08:18] <terlmann> ok
[08:18] <Misosaki> troy_s: What other options are there?
[08:18] <terlmann> I am here
[08:18] <terlmann> time for the private after the meeting meeting
[08:18] <terlmann> nothlit
[08:18] <troy_s> Misosaki: One person use imagemagick to moderate the incoming submissions and organize them.
[08:18] <terlmann> we need to work together on documentation
[08:18] <newz2000> troy_s: one problem with art.ubuntu.com is that it has been horribly difficult to contribute
[08:19] <troy_s> Misosaki: A singular vision for a wiki page goes a long way -- as is exemplified by that Fedora page.  That said, the moderating wouldn't probably stop there.
[08:19] <troy_s> Misosaki: Personally, kwwii should probably be the one moderating -- as a good 98% of the submissions on the Gutsy hodge podge would probably not be there.
[08:20] <troy_s> Misosaki: He is the one hired by Canonical and trusted with that capacity.
[08:20] <troy_s> newz2000: Didn't see you here.  Good to see you old friend.
[08:20] <Misosaki> troy_s: Yes. Only thing is, he's but one person, and he has other commitments too.
[08:21] <newz2000> and you troy!
[08:21] <terlmann> I will help him
[08:21] <terlmann> :-D
[08:21] <terlmann> troy_s : all he needs is me whispering in his ear
[08:21] <troy_s> newz2000: The problem with any site is that to stay healthy it needs monitoring etc.  I really feel that the FOSS community has many other options without complicating matters.  But again, I was outside of the majority on that view two years ago.
[08:22] <newz2000> ok, just hit send on my proposal the mailing list
[08:22] <newz2000> nothlit: ^
[08:22] <troy_s> Misosaki: Hrm... I suppose it depends on one's ability to generate work.
[08:22] <Misosaki> troy_s: To a point, yeah.
[08:22] <troy_s> Misosaki: Moderating isn't exactly a chore, and it can't be done by anyone outside of Canonical.  Plain and simple.
[08:24] <Misosaki> troy_s: Well, that's a little problem. Maybe some people would like to help, except they don't know how.
[08:24] <troy_s> Misosaki: Unless you speak of some externalized community -- at which point it would probably make sense to simply have someone who the interested people trust to moderate.  Pretty sure that there are a few newer faces that are interested in doing something like that.
[08:25] <troy_s> Misosaki: I still am unsure how much room for change there is or 'help'.  Help is a relative term.
[08:25] <_MMA_> troy_s: It will get moderated by 1 or 2 people for sure. Working with kwwii so as to let him concentrate on the art.
[08:25] <Misosaki> troy_s: Possibly. Though not sure if the authorities are keen on that.
[08:25] <troy_s> Misosaki: That's the bigger thing I was getting to.  ;)
[08:26] <Misosaki> troy_s: nods :)
[08:26] <nothlit> newz2000: ok i'll take a look
[08:27] <newz2000> I may have sent it from the wrong address... trying again
[08:28] <Misosaki> I voted for the gallery system mainly because there seems to be interest in having some kind of powerful CMS to organise and display incoming work.
[08:28] <Misosaki> A means to an end, really.
[08:29] <troy_s> Misosaki: Still wondering what or where that end is.
[08:29] <Misosaki> When it comes down to the basics, I'm not particularly concerned what system is being used, but that the system will be properly maintained.
[08:30] <Misosaki> troy_s: Heh. There have been inklings of that the past 1-2 weeks. Nothing quite definite yet.
[08:30] <newz2000> crap, it went twice. Sorry. :-(
[08:31] <Misosaki> troy_s: Frankly was hoping today's meeting would settle part of that.
[08:31] <troy_s> Misosaki: The two key questions -- Audience and Communication -- would probably be a high level canonical decision.
[08:31] <troy_s> Misosaki: I think we would be seriously out of depth to pretend to be able to even come close to getting on point.
[08:32] <Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah, unsurprisingly.
[08:32] <troy_s> Misosaki: Even further, it might very well be that the Audience could be 'business desktops' -- at which point all of this is probably more well served by an extremely uber-conservative gradient style sterility.
[08:33] <Misosaki> troy_s: Up side is, at least people are willing to talk. Down side is ... well.
[08:34] <troy_s> lol
[08:35] <troy_s> Misosaki: It cracks me up when people say 'new users of the os' as though that is an audience.  It certainly is a broad sweeping generalization, but a 15 year old new user is far different than a 38 year old one.
[08:35] <Misosaki> troy_s: There isn't anything wrong per se with uber-conservative gradient style sterility ... still counts as an aim, in a way lols.
[08:35] <troy_s> Misosaki: Look no further than Apple to see well directed communication.
[08:35] <troy_s> Misosaki: Absolutely!
[08:36] <Misosaki> troy_s: nods
[08:36] <troy_s> Misosaki: But I think what a lot of people are looking for in their desktops is more personality -- a more outspoken 20 something sentimentality?  I don't know if the high levels of Canoncial are necessarily in line with that.
[08:37] <troy_s> By 'a lot of people' I mean the ones voicing the traditional vocals.
[08:37] <Misosaki> troy_s: Personality?
[08:38] <troy_s> Misosaki: A communication.  A personality.
[08:38] <troy_s> Misosaki: Something that speaks something in relation to the person using it.
[08:39] <Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah ... though the docs have yet to clearly indicate the line of the authorities.
[08:39] <troy_s> Misosaki: I wouldn't be holding my breath.  At a high level Steve Jobs is well aware of the importance of those sorts of issues and is largely the reason Apple has seen a resurgence - it tackles a very specific audience and communicates extremely effectively to them.
[08:40] <troy_s> Misosaki: The iPhone is an exercise in limitations, and extremely successful because of it.  There isn't a single menu in the entire default system.
[08:40] <Misosaki> troy_s: (Assuming we already know the audience)
[08:41] <troy_s> Misosaki: For what?
[08:41] <troy_s> Misosaki: Ubuntu?
[08:41] <Misosaki> troy_s: What are some of the things you think could be learned from Apple's approach?
[08:41] <troy_s> Misosaki: God -- there is clearly a 'no official stance one way or the other' for Ubuntu ;)
[08:41] <Misosaki> troy_s: Great ;)
[08:42] <troy_s> Misosaki: If I worked at Apple I might have an insight.  J. Ive has stated on more than one occasion that of all the things he will remember about Apple it will be the process that he remembers most.
[08:43] <troy_s> Misosaki: Xerox PARC had a wonderful set of minds working towards things as well.
[08:43] <troy_s> Misosaki: I would say that Apple makes decisions on behalf of their audience -- and they do a pretty good job of hitting the mark 80% of the time.
[08:44] <Misosaki> troy_s: nods
[08:45] <troy_s> Misosaki: The most exemplary development in Free Software was probably Diana's work -- it carried a good weight of communication and a pretty good idea of an audience.
[08:45] <terlmann> kwwii I need you to make the updated palette.
[08:45] <troy_s> (F7's work)
[08:45] <troy_s> Misosaki: It also has a pretty decent use of a palette with a good core set of hues etc.
[08:46] <troy_s> Misosaki: That said, even Apple catches lots of flak for some of their decisions.  It is quite clear that no one knows where / how / etc. are the hard and fast rules as to how to drive an operating system into the future.
[08:47] <Misosaki> troy_s: Well, change is a two-edged sword.
[08:47] <troy_s> Misosaki: by the way, that orange set you posted on the wiki had some very contemporary feeling to it as a starting point.
[08:47] <troy_s> One was very in line with the 8 track 60s revival that is sprouting up in a few areas... rather cool.
[08:49] <Misosaki> troy_s: Thanks. That was part of the concept - to expand on different notions of "a modern OS". One of the problems was I didn't really have a very clear idea of what was wanted.
[08:51] <Misosaki> troy_s: Or rather, the docs were sparse on the point, compared to what was being discussed here, for instance.
[08:55] <Misosaki> troy_s: Obviously doing the drafting, one really appreciates some of the problems with not having a clear direction.
[08:55] <Misosaki> *one begins to appreciate
[08:56] <troy_s> Misosaki: But you know... that is the point.  FOSS software _could_ be on the bleeding edge of contemporary -- but we are still stuck in that nasty swoopy swirl curve garbage.
[08:57] <troy_s> Misosaki: The 70s disco revival that is popping up in designer circles is quite cool -- its nice to see what people can do with a form if given latitude.
[08:58] <Misosaki> troy_s: nods
[08:59] <troy_s> Misosaki: Again though, that isn't going to be the role of the current distributions.  None of them are really aiming at that contemporary edge.
[08:59] <troy_s> Misosaki: It _might_ be a very viable direction for a core team of people to work towards though.
[09:00] <troy_s> Misosaki: To deliver a collaborative approach to contemporary design.  Until someone like Apple steps up and makes it 'hip', I seriously doubt whether any distro would have the balls.
[09:00] <Misosaki> troy_s: At this rate it'll probably be more of a side project (i.e. package extras) than the default.
[09:00] <Misosaki> If it happens.
[09:00] <Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah ... then again, change is often about taking the risks.
[09:00] <troy_s> Of course.
[09:01] <troy_s> Misosaki: Change and newness should be one of the greatest strengths of FOSS.  Not duplication of imitation.
[09:02] <troy_s> Misosaki: One would expect it to be a bastion of innovation (which it is in some circles I suppose).
[09:03] <Misosaki> troy_s: Yeah


[04:05] <blackroot_> hello
[04:21] <ahoneybun> anyone still up?
[04:49] <svenbo> When I try the example code from http://ubuntu-component-store.readthedocs.org/en/latest/_components/fastscroll.html I get ListItem.Standard - ListItem is not a namespace
[04:49] <svenbo> Does anybody know why?
[04:54] <ahoneybun> still around svenbo?
[04:54] <nik90> zsombi: ping
[04:55] <ahoneybun> hey nik90
[04:55] <nik90> ahoneybun: hi
[04:57] <ahoneybun> svenbo: maybe try: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-touch-community-dev/ppa
[04:57] <ahoneybun> opps
[04:58] <ahoneybun> svenbo: import Ubuntu.Components.ListItems 1.0 as ListItem
[05:18] <svenbo> Thanks, it works. :)
[05:21] <svenbo> What's the advantage of aliasing the namespace?
[05:34] <ahoneybun> svenbo: not sure tbh
[05:40] <ahoneybun> nik90: still around?
[05:48] <ahoneybun> why are the scopes asking for cmake executable?
[05:48] <ahoneybun> the tuts says nothing about this
[06:39] <dholbach> good morning
[07:44] <dholbach> can anyone review https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/help-app/fix-QA-token/+merge/261177 please?
[08:09] <popey> dholbach: done, tested on my pc
[08:14] <dholbach> tanks popey
[08:15] <dholbach> thanks I mean
[08:15] <popey> np :)
[08:24] <kbroulik> how does the units.dp work internally? my app already has a handcrafted Units.dp thing but QGuiApplication::primaryScreen()->physicalDotsPerInch(); returns 100 on the emulator and stuff looks huge
[08:29] <popey> kbroulik: does this help? http://design.canonical.com/2015/05/to-converge-onto-mobile-tablet-and-desktop-think-grid-units/
[08:33] <kbroulik> popey: I was more interested in some code :) is that ubuntu phone stuff on launchpad somewhere? It's not feasible for my app to be ported to units.gu/dp/whatever
[08:33] <popey> yeah, it's all on launchpad
[08:33] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers links to the bug pages for each app / component
[08:34] <popey> if you click through to one you're interested in, and then click "code" at the top, you can browse the code
[08:36] <kbroulik> cool thx
[08:37] <popey> np
[08:38] <popey> kbroulik: also, someone like mzanetti who works on Unity 8 may be able to help with specific questions :)
[08:38]  * popey throws mzanetti under the question bus
[08:38] <kbroulik> I've seen him do quite a few high dpi bug fixes for kde :D
[08:39] <kbroulik> ok, found the UCUnits::dp, nice
[08:39] <popey> excellent
[09:47] <svenbo> What is the right way to link two strings?
[09:47] <svenbo> I am trying
[09:47] <svenbo> icon: Qt.resolvedUrl(state % ".png")
[09:47] <svenbo> But it does not work.
[09:47] <svenbo> state is the element of a list item
[09:50] <zsombi> nik90: pong
[09:51] <zsombi> svenbo: I guess you need an URL from that, so how about Qt.resolvedUrl(state + ".png")?
[10:07] <svenbo> The problem was that I cannot use state as a variable name. ;)
[10:43] <nik90> zsombi: hi..I am trying to create an application theme like you described in https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/03/17/creating-theme-your-application/, however when I try to use it I get the following error "file:///usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/qt5/qml/Ubuntu/Components/ListItems/ThinDivider.qml:56: TypeError: Cannot read property 'normal' of null"
[10:44] <nik90> zsombi: I am unable to find out why despite following the tutorial to the letter lp:~nik90/podbird/16-migrate-15.04
[10:44] <nik90> zsombi: Does the error message give you any ideas on what might be going wrong?
[10:46] <nik90> zsombi: when I run the app, the header is missing and popups have no background color etc..like the app theme is not loaded correctly
[13:40] <dholbach> hey balloons, could you imagine reviewing https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/help-app/1433210/+merge/261228? :)
[13:41] <dholbach> balloons, I could split out the test bits, as they're currently a bit confusing
[13:41] <dholbach> and don't add much more safety
[13:44] <dholbach> done
[13:52] <balloons> dholbach, sure thing
[13:58]  * dholbach hugs balloons
[14:22] <balloons> dholbach, weird, this seems to break links in the build
[14:22] <dholbach> oh?
[14:22] <dholbach> how can I reproduce this locally?
[14:23] <balloons> let me verify myself before I speak up too much :-) checking trunk
[14:23] <balloons> ok, yep :-)
[14:24] <balloons> As a last check, I just did a 'make web'. Try going to the settings page and looking at the content. It's missing
[14:24] <dholbach> errrrrrr, ok?
[14:25] <balloons> dholbach, is it not missing for you? The links seem broken, I'll look at the source now
[14:25] <dholbach> it is
[14:25] <dholbach> I didn't see this earlier
[14:25] <dholbach> let me try to figure it out
[14:25] <balloons> ok, ;-) I'll hang tight then
[14:26] <dholbach> hah, found it!
[14:27] <zsombi> nik90: do you create the theme for a 1.3 app?
[14:27] <dholbach> thanks balloons - change pushed
[14:28] <zsombi> nik90: also, have you tried to copy the app from the blogpost and run it?
[14:30] <nik90> zsombi: I created the theme for a 1.2 app
[14:30] <nik90> zsombi: the app copied form the blogpost works properly..:/
[14:31] <balloons> dholbach, can we get a test to check for that issue, or is going to be a functional tesT?
[14:31] <zsombi> nik90: uhm... is your podbird.qml in the root when installed?
[14:32] <zsombi> nik90: or under app/ subfolder of your click?
[14:32] <zsombi> nik90: it looks to me that your theme should be app.MyTheme
[14:32] <mhall119> oSoMoN: I need help with Oxide's WebView component
[14:32] <dholbach> balloons, I'll file a bug for it - it'd involve creating a mock .md file and converting it using our markdown extensions
[14:33] <dholbach> but it makes perfect sense
[14:33] <oSoMoN> mhall119, shoot
[14:33] <nik90> zsombi: it installs to /share/qml/podbird/
[14:33] <nik90> zsombi: which I would assume is root
[14:33] <mhall119> oSoMoN: when loading some imgur.com pages, they load some javascript that throws ReferenceErrors, which causes the rest of the page to stop loading
[14:33] <nik90> zsombi: I will try out app.MyTheme and a couple of other paths to be sure
[14:33] <mhall119> is there any way for me to tell Oxide to continue on even when it encounters these errors?
[14:33] <balloons> dholbach, yea, just curious how much we can mock at a low level. Certainly we'd catch it in selenium
[14:34] <mhall119> oSoMoN: or catch and respond to errors like that?
[14:34] <balloons> dholbach, btw, did you want me to do more work on the test structure? If you have a firm way you'd like to go, I can make the changes
[14:34] <balloons> kind of hoping pvsenan will propose something, so I don't want to muck with it too much
[14:34] <oSoMoN> mhall119, I don’t think so, can you point me to what page causes this, and what errors you’re getting?
[14:34] <dholbach> balloons, filed bug 1462394
[14:35] <zsombi> nik90: uhm... your palette is wrong :)
[14:35] <dholbach> balloons, https://bugs.launchpad.net/help-app/+bugs?field.tag=ci is what we have in terms of tests right now
[14:35] <nik90> zsombi: spelling mistake?
[14:35] <zsombi> nik90: you import Ambiance as Ambiance, then Suru.Palette :)
[14:35] <zsombi> nik90: so no palette will be loaded :(
[14:35] <mhall119> oSoMoN: it's a bit tricky, as it only seems to do this on the mobile version of their site, so I've only been able to reproduce it on my phone
[14:36] <balloons> dholbach, do you want tests as part of a build really?
[14:36] <oSoMoN> mhall119, btw, want to take this discussion to #oxide?
[14:36] <dholbach> balloons, why not?
[14:36] <balloons> *functional tests that is
[14:36] <nik90> zsombi: I fixed that .. just forgot to push to my lp branch
[14:37] <balloons> dholbach, they are slower to run, and really are only needed when you are ready to commit / release
[14:37] <dholbach> hum
[14:37] <balloons> I would rather see a seperate make target for them
[14:37] <balloons> plus they invovle UI, so not terminal friendly :-)
[14:37] <dholbach> for me it wasn't so important up until now how fast a .deb package is built
[14:38] <dholbach> ah... sorry
[14:38] <balloons> lol, true enough I suppose
[14:38] <balloons> but yea, the UI issue
[14:38]  * zsombi goes offline, on the flight
[14:39] <dholbach> hum
[14:39] <dholbach> balloons, but don't we work around that in other builds already?
[14:39] <dholbach> balloons, using xvfb?
[14:40] <balloons> dholbach, what do you mean? working around need.. ahh, yes
[14:40] <balloons> jenkins can and should do it.. I just don't think you want to run the full thing everytime you do a make web or make app
[14:41] <balloons> and actually, right, we could keep it command line friendlyt
[14:41] <balloons> ok, I concede on that point
[14:42] <dholbach> let's just see how it's going to work... if we can't run it headless the decision is made already :)
[14:42] <dholbach> sure, I agree with that
[14:42] <dholbach> it would be "make check", which runs during a jenkins run and whenever a package is built for a ppa
[14:42] <nik90> zsombi: No worries it could be cmake packaging..I am going to convert your demo into a CMAKE project and then see if that works
[14:44] <balloons> dholbach, ok so we agree then
[14:44] <balloons> cool
[14:44] <balloons> so I will try and make those changes
[14:44] <dholbach> <3
[14:45] <dholbach> I'll get back to work on some more translations tests
[14:53] <balloons> dholbach, is it important for you to be able to run only the app tests or web tests easily?
[14:54] <balloons> aka, do i need to reorg and put the tests in there own files so they can be run individually?
[14:54] <balloons> I'm thinking yes . . .
[15:05] <dholbach> balloons, I don't know
[15:05] <balloons> lol, it's done!
[15:05] <balloons> we can always go back
[15:05] <dholbach> balloons, I just thought "we have this method which builds a flavour of the app in a temp dir, let's use it"
[15:05] <dholbach> that's basically all
[15:06] <dholbach> balloons, did https://code.launchpad.net/~dholbach/help-app/1433210/+merge/261228 look all right to you now or was I still missing something?
[15:06] <balloons> approved now
[15:06] <balloons> sorry, yes looks good
[15:07] <dholbach> thanks balloons!
[15:27] <balloons> dholbach, probably close enough for you to have a peek at lp:~nskaggs/help-app/functional-test-template-improvements
[15:30] <dholbach> checking
[15:31] <balloons> it's unclear where to put some of these modules so we can cleanly import them
[15:31] <balloons> namely build_utils
[15:31] <dholbach> yeah
[15:32] <balloons> but that's more or less my thoughts on orga
[15:33] <dholbach> run-unit-tests is broken
[15:33] <dholbach> let me check
[15:34] <balloons> yea, unit is broken based maybe only on import?
[15:35] <dholbach> yes
[15:41] <dholbach> balloons, I can't quite figure out how to make it right :)
[15:44] <dholbach> balloons, I think I'll call it a day, but I'll check mails later on again and see if you posted anything
[15:44] <dholbach> thanks again for your help!
[15:44] <dholbach> have a great weekend!
[21:49] <ahoneybun> popey: around?
[23:16] <ahoneybun> mhall119: is there a reason that the SDK does not install cmake ?


[14:10] <cheez0r> hey maas gurus, I could use some help. Anyone around who could spare a few minutes?
[14:23] <cheez0r> that many people, eh?
[14:23] <cheez0r> ;)
[14:34] <ahasenack> well, you scare them with such an entrance :)
[14:35] <cheez0r> something like that. I'm struggling with out-of-the-box MaaS integration for some reason, have been for a few days now.
[14:35] <cheez0r> I'm doing a re-installation of the MaaS Server node right now to start from scratch again


[07:58] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[08:10] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[08:10] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:42] <SuperEngineer> o/
[10:47]  * SuperEngineer watches BTCC in prep for Grand Prix coverage
[10:47] <SuperEngineer> [it's far more interesting than searching for where Steam nicked my disk space] ;)
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: ~/.steam probabl
[10:53] <MartijnVdS> or ~/.local/share/Steam
[10:54] <SuperEngineer> been hunting in both - can't find the4 [5?] GB it nickeed after cancelling a download
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: check using 'baobab'
[10:55] <SuperEngineer> [seemed to reserve space somehow and not release it]
[10:55] <SuperEngineer> baobab - heard of that [and not just the tree]
[10:56] <SuperEngineer> oh - du - been using that in x and in CLI
[10:56] <SuperEngineer> [to no joy]
[10:58] <SuperEngineer> Steam taking 33GB [18 installed games though]  ;)
[11:00] <SuperEngineer> [but baobab is an extremely appropriate name for dua]
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: there should be a temp file, or a directory withthe name of the download you cancelled
[11:06] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: http://imagebin.org/268726 it's somewhere is Left for Dead...
[11:06] <MartijnVdS> somewhere in the steam dir
[11:06] <SuperEngineer> started downloading beta which is now live - cancelled it [already have non-beta & happy with it]
[11:07] <SuperEngineer> ho hum - nearly F1 time - that'll take my mind off it!
[11:07] <MartijnVdS> F1!
[11:08] <SuperEngineer> Belgium GP coverage starts 12.10 BBC1
[11:09] <SuperEngineer> race starts in 50 mins
[11:10] <SuperEngineer> ..and here comes the theme music!
[11:46] <SuperEngineer> phew! just started  a steam game directly from the .exe file... wrong!  killed output to monitor
[11:46] <MartijnVdS> .exe file?!
[11:47] <SuperEngineer> [fortunately it was showing on HDMI on tv... very wrong resolution - but enough to do a clean a shut down
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - found that in the Left for Dead folder
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> weird.. but probably best for consistency to name the executable that everywhere
[11:48] <SuperEngineer> hmmm
[11:49] <SuperEngineer> [also found the Left for Dead folder has a Left for Dead folder inside it!
[11:49] <SuperEngineer> messy
[11:52] <SuperEngineer> Anyone here have Left FOr Dead installed under Steam - a comparison would be wonderful right now ;)
[11:54] <MartijnVdS> 1 or 2 ?
[11:55] <SuperEngineer> F1 race -5 folks
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> yeah, just got the official intro :)
[11:55] <brobostigon> ST4 voyage home, ch4 2.30pm, :)
[11:55] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: 2
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> would have been there, but camping is NOT for me
[11:56] <MartijnVdS>  + sunburn
[11:56] <MartijnVdS>  + feeling bad overall
[11:56] <MartijnVdS>   = early drive home
[11:56] <brobostigon> glamping would be more for me, i like my bath, :)
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yeah, if I go again, it'll be race-day only, and sleeping in a hotel
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> and with friends
[11:57] <brobostigon> :)
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> oh well, I have some photos and videos
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> (see G+)
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> had a walk around the circuit on Friday
[11:58] <brobostigon> :)
[11:59] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: which directory do you want to compare?
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> [zo 14:00] :) martijn@desktop:~/.../share/Steam/SteamApps/common/Left 4 Dead 2$ ls
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> bin         hl2        left4dead2       left4dead2_dlc3  platform
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> argh!
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> config      hl2_linux  left4dead2_dlc1  left4dead2.exe   steam_appid.txt
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> meant to paste the pastebin link
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6024809/
[12:01] <MartijnVdS> stupid chromeos
[12:08] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: just wonering if the  'Left For Dead 2' dir has a 'leftfordead2' dir in it
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: see the paste
[12:14] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks - it's identical
[12:17] <SuperEngineer> p.s. next time I find a tent with abath attached... I'll let you know  ;)
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> almost halfway already
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> ..and still no rain
[12:47] <MartijnVdS> :( they predicted 16mm a few days ago
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> yup
[12:48] <SuperEngineer> [methinks the 2 Brits wanted the rain]
[12:48] <SuperEngineer> ...rain meisters both
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> Good at driving on twisty roads while it's raining? They must be Brits ;)
[12:51] <MartijnVdS> where else do you get the practice
[12:53] <SuperEngineer> ..they all learnt to drive with 1 hand on steering wheel & 1 hand carrying an umbrella
[12:55] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: on B roads in Cornwall?
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: lol
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> and that coming together is what is technically called a "whoopsie" ;)
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> 8-)
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> *is <-> technically  [v. bad grammar - slaps own wrist]
[13:05]  * mgdm thinks your corrected version sounds wrong
[13:08] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: "is what is"??!!  that's good?  nah! next you'll be telling me you "finks ya corrected version sounds wrong, know what I mean"
[13:10] <mgdm> I'm from nearly as far away as you can be from Essex while staying in the UK, and think that accent sounds like chewing tinfoil, so no :-)
[13:10] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: gawd bless ya cotton socks mate
[13:11] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:11]  * mgdm wonders what accent that's meant to be :)
[13:11] <SuperEngineer> cockerney
[13:11] <mgdm> ah! hehe
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> not Somersetese? ;)
[13:14] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: nope - that would be "bless yeer cotton socks madear" ;
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> [or - "no, officer, honestly... I found the venison - it just dropped dead front in of I"  ;)
[13:20] <SuperEngineer> why doesn't the helicopter cutting the corners & going "off track" get a stop/go penalty!
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> only a few more laps!
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: those helicopters (2!) are scary to watch
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: those pilots must be insane
[13:21] <mgdm> SuperEngineer: last time they had a car with a big fan on, it got banned
[13:22] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: yup - best view & best fun on the circuit
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> "What's your job?" "Oh, I fly around F1 circuits in a helicopter, just above the tree tops"
[13:23] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: that was 1 of the helos!  it was running low on fuel ;)
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> he must be a hit at parties ;)
[13:23] <mgdm> Yeah, the Tyrell Apache
[13:24] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: "Oh, I try to fly around F1 circuits in a helicopter, just above the tree tops- whoops!!!!"
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: it was the hellfire missiles that made them ban it, not the fan.
[13:24]  * brobostigon puts ch4 on,
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> but.. only 1 more lap of f1!
[13:25]  * brobostigon waits.
[13:25] <shauno> I bet the secret is they're just trying to troll the cameraman
[13:25] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: had 2 Apaches land for fuel at local airport last week... "anyone want to pick an argunment" was the most common phrase
[13:26] <mgdm> hehe
[13:26] <mgdm> a Navy Sea King appeared from behind the building beside my flat last night
[13:26] <mgdm> that was surprising
[13:26] <mgdm> silence to WHOMP WHOMP WHOMP
[13:26] <shauno> they're not known for being sneaky
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> the whomping willow!
[13:27] <SuperEngineer> followed by Sea King pilot going "hey, who nicked the sea?!"
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> Has Hamilton changed his name to Vettel?
[13:28] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: only on weekends
[13:28] <SuperEngineer> lol
[13:28] <shauno> we used to get sea kings flying low quite often because we were far too close to the helipad at the local hospital  (south lakes, so coastguard+mountain rescue double-whammy).  we used to joke that we shouldn't have made the extension a flat roof :/
[13:29] <mgdm> hehe
[13:29] <mgdm> the Clyde Heliport is nearby
[13:29] <mgdm> though not where I saw the Sea King
[13:29]  * brobostigon now stwitches to ch4.
[13:29] <SuperEngineer> other interesting facts re local airport... 2 crashes in as many days!
[13:29] <mgdm> o_O
[13:29] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: con-TROLL-ing
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: (from the con-troll tower)
[13:30] <SuperEngineer> oh - now there's a nice thought - conning trolls... mmmm
[13:31] <SuperEngineer> patent trollls & bullies doubly so
[13:31] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's the reverse of the "419 baiter"
[13:32] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: channel4? what, miss the Suzi Perry/Eddie Jordon comedy hour?
[13:33] <mgdm> SuperEngineer: I'm not on ch4, that's brobostigon
[13:33] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: 419 baiter? [/me looks up phrase]
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> Star Trek IV: Free Willy?
[13:33] <SuperEngineer> mgdm: forgiven ;)
[13:33] <brobostigon> i think i would rather watch one of the best star treks films, to be honest.
[13:34] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: voyage home, :)
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: the one with the whales, right?
[13:34] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yep.
[13:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: hence "Free Willy"
[13:34] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i understood the joke, it was funny, :)
[13:34] <SuperEngineer> ...but there was only 1 whale - poor sod
[13:34] <mgdm> there were 2
[13:35] <brobostigon> yep, there were two.
[13:35] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: Close Encounters (of the 3rd kind) on Five later on
[13:35] <brobostigon> MartijnVdS: also cool :)
[13:35] <SuperEngineer> ... there was 1 - then 2 - then 4 - then 16..... :D
[13:36] <shauno> (±petunias)
[13:36] <brobostigon> HHGTTG
[13:37] <brobostigon> magrathea.
[13:37] <brobostigon> above magrathea.*
[13:37] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ah... *now* I understand 419 baiter
[13:38] <MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's trolling conners, instead of conning trolls :)
[13:38] <SuperEngineer> yup
[13:40] <shauno> I remember reading something that advocated spam filters should be trying to do that automatically
[13:41] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: Douglas A - RIP
[13:41] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: yes. huge shame, before his time.
[13:41] <SuperEngineer> [I wonder what that thing approaching.... ;)
[13:42] <shauno> the logic was that most of these 'nigerian princes' are meant to be absurdly obvious, because it results in a very narrow, gullible, self-selecting response rate
[13:42] <SuperEngineer> life.. don't talk to about about life... here I am, brain the size of a planet..." - use that whwn a customer really bores me
[13:43] <SuperEngineer> ...thgey usually go quiet afer that
[13:43] <shauno> and that having spam filters try to start conversations with the spammers would completely destroy the effort:result ratio at the spammer's end
[13:44] <SuperEngineer> ...F1 is a woinderful thing - takes one's mind off current computer "problem" [non-problem as it turns out]
[13:45]  * SuperEngineer is embarrassed
[13:45] <SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: thanks for the help & suggestions re Steam disk loss - it is solved
[13:46] <brobostigon> large bag of crisps, beer and a good film, what more can you ask for, :)
[13:46] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: a yacht, a helicopter, a fast car...
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> ...and Eddie Jordan
[13:47] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: those are all too expensive.
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> brobostigon: dunno - never - bought an Eddie Jordan!
[13:48] <brobostigon> SuperEngineer: i was indirectly referring to the cost of sky tv.
[13:48] <SuperEngineer> lol
[13:48]  * penguin42 wonders if there is any way of delaying the start of a program in session startup
[13:49] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: don't start it in auto - start manual?  serious
[13:51] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: I'm looking at a bootchart of my dads machine; one of the things thrashing the disk during login is update-notifier/apt - which I do want to autostart, but it could do with sitting back and taking it gently while the user logs in and gets on with their life
[13:53] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: agreed
[13:54] <penguin42> I flipped his machine to cfq (from deadline) and it does seem to have taken a few seconds off startup, but there are some dumb things I can see in the bootchart
[13:58] <SuperEngineer> that reminds me - think it might be time to say bbs - own startup has been slowing recently - just installed bootchart [again]
[13:59] <SuperEngineer> ...& MartijnVdS thanks for your help earlier
[14:04] <MartijnVdS> np :)
[15:01]  * mgdm is watching Star Trek IV: Where'd the Whales Go? on +1
[15:01] <mgdm> I do have it on blu ray, somewhere
[15:01]  * penguin42 offers his mouse to mgdm
[15:04] <AlanBell> o/ daubers
[15:05] <MartijnVdS> A wild daubers appears?
[15:06] <mgdm> penguin42: a mouse? :)
[15:09] <penguin42> mgdm: Computer!
[15:10] <mgdm> my computer doesn't have an optical drive
[15:10] <mgdm> and I don't know of any online services that have the film
[15:10] <mgdm> and it's on telly right now :)
[15:21] <penguin42> mgdm: Just remember what I've said while you're watching it
[15:22] <mgdm> penguin42: OOOOH
[15:22] <mgdm> penguin42: I fail :(
[15:22] <mgdm> sorry :(
[16:01] <penguin42> hehe
[16:26] <mgdm> wubwubwubwubwubwubwubwub
[16:49] <Myrtti> WHY am I watching Premier League from telly? Boggle.
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: yes.. WHY
[16:55]  * DJones sends the men in white coats to collect Myrtti
[17:03] <Myrtti> what
[17:03] <Myrtti> another game straight after the first one?
[17:03] <Myrtti> this is too much
[17:03] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: you're obviously ill
[17:04]  * Myrtti finally bothers to get the remote and turn the channel over
[17:04] <MartijnVdS> one of those days eh
[17:16] <mjayk> anybody here to to a LUG in the nw of the Uk?
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> North-west of the UK, or north-west of just England? :)
[17:17] <mjayk> ah :) England
[17:17] <mjayk> yea i didnt say what i ment
[17:17] <MartijnVdS> there's Manlug, ask penguin42 about that
[17:18] <MartijnVdS> also http://lug.org.uk/lugs/north-west
[17:18] <mjayk> i presume thats manchester
[17:18] <mjayk> cheers
[17:28] <penguin42> oh, sorry I was making dinner
[17:32] <brobostigon> i am making a chilli for my gf tmrw evening, wish me luck.
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> brobostigon: you can do it :)
[17:34] <brobostigon> i know i can, :). i have made ones for myself many times.
[18:50] <daubers> AlanBell: o/ Still around?
[18:56] <AlanBell> yes
[18:58] <daubers> AlanBell: Is your's and the opensourcerers company an LLP? Or is it something else?
[19:00] <AlanBell> it is a limited company
[19:00] <AlanBell> llp is for accountants and soliciters
[19:00] <daubers> Ah, fair enough :)
[19:01] <brobostigon> limited liability
[19:01] <daubers> I've been offered a share in an LLP, so I'm trying to find someone unrelated to it that runs one so I can get some insight into it
[19:01] <AlanBell> hmm, interesting
[19:02] <AlanBell> it doesn't have shares, that makes no sense
[19:02] <mgdm> I came across an LLP that was an estate agents in a previous line of work, never heard of it for anything that wasn't in that sort of area
[19:02] <AlanBell> you would have to be a partner, not a shareholder
[19:02] <daubers> AlanBell: No, "share" is the wrong technical term. I would be a partner with a certain %age stake
[19:03] <AlanBell> yup, that makes sense :O
[19:03] <daubers> Sorry, business terminology still makes me confused
[19:04] <daubers> (Still seems like a "share" to me, but I admit it's not "technically" correct)
[19:09] <AlanBell> you probably need to talk to someone who knows a bit more about it than me :)
[19:09] <AlanBell> I would be a bit wary about being a partner if you are not actually going to be a partner
[19:10] <daubers> AlanBell: I would be a partner, I'd also be running it day to day
[19:10] <AlanBell> in that case, it sounds appropriate
[19:11] <daubers> Yeah. Might be a trip to the library for a day coming up
[19:49] <mungbean> i'm new to wheely bins. anyone else get massive maggot infestation in this weather?
[20:31] <popey> evening all
[20:32] <popey> mungbean: not here
[20:33] <mungbean> there are nappies in the bin:S
[20:33] <mungbean> might not help
[20:35] <popey> are they inside nappy bags?
[20:35] <mungbean> yes
[20:36] <mungbean> still. the bin gets opened quite a bit i guess
[20:36] <mungbean> there were 3 flies on it the other day
[20:36] <mungbean> bin opened...flies in = party
[20:36] <MartijnVdS> stop hiding the bodies in those bins?
[20:36] <mungbean> especially when bin men come and scuzz gets on the lid
[20:37] <mungbean> my sister got a new laptop. 2 days later i'm cleaning off malware
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> we have wheely bin cleaners here.. who come after the bin men and powerwash the inside
[20:37] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: yay windows
[20:37] <mungbean> already had MSSE installed but meh
[20:37] <popey> yeah, we have those here
[20:38] <mungbean> unsure if it came from an installer or  not as her husband had run system restore pt already
[20:38] <popey> we have never had ours cleaned in ~12 years of living here
[20:38] <mungbean> although malware remained
[20:38] <MartijnVdS> heh.. the Dutch Dell XPS-13 "Ubuntu edition" page:
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> UBUNTU: De beste prestaties met Windows 8 Pro
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> ("Ubuntu: The best performance with Windows 8 Pro")
[20:39] <popey> *sigh*
[20:39] <AlanBell> Dell does it again
[20:39] <mungbean> my bruv got good deal on a laptop though. 207£
[20:39] <MartijnVdS> will there be a Haswell version eventually?
[20:40] <popey> they tend to rev their hardware in autumn
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> popey: which is now-ish :)
[20:40] <MartijnVdS> or soon-ish anyway
[20:40] <popey> but I suspect if sputnik is deemed "popular" inside Dell, they yeah
[20:40] <popey> the ultrabook will get an update anyway, whether the sputnik build does or not.. who knows
[20:41] <mungbean> there are laptops with a celeron 1.1ghz processor :|
[20:41] <mungbean> called celron 847
[20:41] <mungbean> seems to work ok for average joe
[20:43] <shauno> it shouldn't be that bad.  it's a santa rosa dualcore.  probably plenty for mum-class laptops
[20:43] <shauno> are, sandy bridge rather
[20:44] <AlanBell> sputnik won't be deemed popular because they keep it in a locked filcabinet at the bottom of some broken stairs behind a web page that says beware of the leopard and Dell recommends windows 8
[20:45] <mungbean> shauno: yeah, seems ok, except for the win8
[20:45] <mungbean> they couldn't find anything, average users are so lost on it
[20:47] <popey> AlanBell: not what i hear
[20:47] <popey> internally it's got some praise
[20:52] <Myrtti> I think I'll get the sputnik if everything works out
[20:52] <AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/2xmzkx9vBg5
[20:53] <AlanBell> it is ridiculous how badly they describe it after so much time
[20:57] <penguin42> AlanBell: Haha!
[20:57] <popey> I notice AlanBell doesn't file bugs or contact people anymore, but just rants on G+
[20:58] <Azelphur> isn't that how everything gets fixed
[20:58]  * Azelphur runs
[21:04] <AlanBell> better place for screenshots than IRC
[21:04] <AlanBell> and I do file bugs
[21:05] <AlanBell> I don't know where to file a bug about Dell's website though :)
[21:05] <AlanBell> I don't encounter so many bugs with 13.10, but I did file some when I tried xmir
[21:06] <popey> \o/ ship it
[21:06] <AlanBell> yeah, everyone should run 13.10 it rocks
[21:07] <AlanBell> xmir might be a bit early to run though, and I don't really know what the benefit of it is
[21:38] <ali1234> well the thing about dell selling ubuntu laptops is...
[21:38] <ali1234> nobody is going to be mislead by the website
[21:38] <ali1234> except maybe a few people who buy ubuntu by mistake
[21:39] <ali1234> because they think it has windows, because the website says it does
[21:40] <ali1234> literally no one is going to go to the dell website and see "oh, laptops with ubuntu. i've never heard of that, so i'll spend $1200 on a laptop with an OS i know nothing about"
[21:41] <AlanBell> true, which is probably one reason vendors are reluctant to sell Ubuntu laptops for less than the windows equivalent
[21:42] <ali1234> there's no reason to even sell cmputers with ubuntu pre installed
[21:43] <ali1234> you'll get exactly the same number of extra sales by selling them with no operating system
[21:43] <AlanBell> yeah, we bought a novatech for that reason
[21:44] <popey> depends on the region
[21:44] <mgdm> blimey, gitlab really does look awfully like it was 'inspired by' Github
[21:44] <popey> heh
[21:44] <popey> i do enjoy gitlab
[21:44] <AlanBell> it is a much easier thing to ask manufacturers to do, ship things without operating system
[21:44] <AlanBell> or list the operating system as a separately priced option
[21:46] <AlanBell> that Dell thing is shipping with "Ubuntu Edition version 12.04" first thing I would do is reinstall it with 13.10 and maybe add back the Dell tweaks
[21:47] <AlanBell> shipping it blank would be just fine
[21:53] <popey> laura has one and is using 12.04 on it
[21:53] <popey> i know a few others who wiped and put 13.10 on it
[21:53] <popey> sorry, 13.04
[22:03] <penguin42> AlanBell: Dell will generally ship you any of their machines with FreeDOS on if you're a business customer (or would a few years back)
[22:05] <penguin42> actually to be fair I never did try with laptops, but desktops and servers I did
[22:09] <AlanBell> they wouldn't sell to me in a reasonable timescale last time I tried, so I went elsewhere and got a Samsung
[22:10] <AlanBell> that was some years ago, I will try again next time I am in a laptop purchasing mood
[22:22] <penguin42> AlanBell: Nod; but certainly must go through the business side - no chance with the customer people
[22:23]  * bigcalm wanders in after a great weekend at his parents'
[22:24] <AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, I did that, there was a whole comedy of purchase orders and proforma invoices and quotes and a 6 week lead time for something more expensive than the windows version
[22:25] <AlanBell> or I could get the windows version for less money shipping next day. So I got a Samsung instead.
[22:26] <AlanBell> timescale was a bigger deal than the price, but when it came to the fact I couldn't get a linux laptop within a week or so I just picked a good price/performance combination and that wasn't Dell
[22:32] <penguin42> AlanBell: OK interesting, the desktops/servers they had nailed - we could normally get them within 2 or 3 days
[22:46] <AlanBell> yeah, probably helps if you are an existing customer with a standard order
[22:50] <penguin42> I used to buy a fair amount of stuff from them, but normally different; they could put arbitrary servers/cpu/ram/disk combinations together very quickly - but not done it for ~6 years