[00:00] <micahg> chrisccoulson: are we going to do an aurora build as well?
[00:00] <chrisccoulson> not at the moment
[01:02] <Omega> Will we get an Aurora PPA?
[01:04] <micahg> Omega: not at the moment
[01:21] <Omega> micahg: Thanks for the reply, but has discussion about this occured (can you point me to where I might be able to read more about it)? Or if there are any plans for one?
[01:37] <micahg> Omega: idk of any official discussion, I asked our team lead chrisccoulson about a half hour before you asked :)
[01:38] <chrisccoulson> there's no plan to do that yet
[01:38] <chrisccoulson> i haven't figured out how we're going to do all this just anyway
[01:38] <chrisccoulson> but i don't think we need to provide an aurora branch atm
[01:39] <chrisccoulson> we'll do beta and mozilla-central for sure
[01:47] <Omega> It'll be nice to have, for those of us that like living on the edge :)
[02:10] <chrisccoulson> Omega, if you like living on the edge, then I would suggest mozilla-central ;)
[02:16] <Omega> Do you have a link handy?
[04:37] <magcius> OK
[04:37] <magcius> I'm having a problem with firefox-trunk
[04:37] <magcius> One, why don't you set the URL handlers properly?
[04:38] <magcius> Two, apparently my home page is "chrome://branding/locale/browserconfig.properties"
[06:07] <micahg> magcius: can you be more specific on 1 and 2 I can't reproduce
[06:12] <magcius> on two, I think I solved it
[06:12] <magcius> it was a broken update
[06:12] <magcius> on one, there's some weird thing in the way you do upgrades that makes URL handlers break
[06:12] <magcius> when I updated from firefox-4.0b15 to firefox-trunk or whatever the versions are
[06:12] <magcius> the URL handlers didn't get set
[06:13] <magcius> so I had to go into Preferred Applications and set it from "firefox-4.0b15" to "firefox-trunk"
[06:15] <micahg> that's not URL handlers, that's the binary changing, this is fixed now
[06:15] <micahg> firefox-trunk will remain firefox-trunk
[06:15] <magcius> uh, ok
[06:16] <magcius> why didn't you update the xdg-mime settings then?
[06:16] <micahg> we don't touch personal settings
[06:16] <micahg> err, we try not to touch :)
[08:13] <magcius> uhh
[08:13] <magcius> what the fuck?
[08:13] <magcius> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=64165
[08:13] <magcius> That links me to http://msdn.microsoft.com/chrome:/global/locale/intl.properties/vcsharp/aa336809.aspx
[08:13] <magcius> which is CLEARLY wrong
[08:14] <magcius> Is something fucked up in my config that causes Firefox to send the wrong locale header?
[08:15]  * micahg blames microsoft
[08:16]  * magcius looks at "chrome:/global/locale"
[08:16] <magcius> It's obvious something got screwed up in the config.
[08:16] <magcius> And MS is blindly concatenating the locale header
[08:16] <magcius> If you're curious
[08:17] <magcius> The right link is http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/aa336809.aspx
[08:20] <micahg> magcius: sounds like a bug, maybe ask chrisccoulson in a couple hours when he surfaces
[08:21] <magcius> either way
[08:21] <magcius> about:config flagged it as "non-default"
[08:21] <gnomefreak> do we really need firefox-trunk + firefox-4.0? they are showing as same version
[08:22] <micahg> gnomefreak: they are the same L(
[08:22] <micahg> :)
[08:22] <micahg> firefox-4.0 should be transitional
[08:22] <gnomefreak> micahg: so i can remove one of them
[08:23] <micahg> gnomefreak: yes, firefox-4.0 is transitional in the dailies now
[08:23] <gnomefreak> micahg: thanks
[08:26] <gnomefreak> it seems that apt wants to remove firefox-trunk-gnome-support. IIRC apt-get autoremove lists packages that are not used recently. so either gnome-support is phased out ort apt is broken
[08:29] <micahg> gnomefreak: that only is to pull in the gnome-deps, nothing in there
[08:30] <gnomefreak> micahg: ok, i guess that makes sense since we cant add just gnome-deps to the firefox package
[08:30] <gnomefreak> thanks
[08:32]  * micahg -> sleep
[08:45] <chrisccoulson> magcius, what do you have in about:config for general.useragent.locale and general.useragent.compatMode.firefox (although, i don't think that should matter anymore)
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> and also, intl.accept_languages
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> magcius, ^^
[08:53] <gnomefreak> it sends me to http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/vcsharp/aa336809.aspx also in minefield
[08:54] <chrisccoulson> yeah, it gets it from the Accpet-Language header, which is defined in intl.accept_languages
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> but intl.accept_languages is a localized pref (which means it is set to a chrome URI, and firefox resolves the real value from the language pack)
[08:55] <gnomefreak> en-US, en
[08:55] <gnomefreak> is what i have for intl.accept_languages
[08:56] <gnomefreak> oh
[08:56] <chrisccoulson> this should normally work, unless the pref has been modified by something to be non-localized, in which case, firefox will take the chrome URI as a literal value
[08:57] <gnomefreak> how do we know if the pref has been  modified?
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> i suspect that's what's happened in magcius case, but he's not the first person with this issue. i wonder if there's an extension that's screwing this up
[08:57] <gnomefreak> here it is not an extension
[08:58] <gnomefreak> oh thats not the same link
[08:58] <gnomefreak> i have en-us in my link and he doesnt, so i guess his locales are not set to en-us
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> bug 643899
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> so, someone there confirms that the pref was set to the literal value chrome://global/locale/intl.properties, which is wrong (and not how it is set by default)
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> wtf
[09:02] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: where is the flash.so in browser plugins?
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins ?
[09:03] <gnomefreak> chrisccoulson: thanks. is that also chrome?
[09:05] <magcius> chrisccoulson, chrome://global/locale/intl.properties -- but I reset it
[09:05] <gnomefreak> i guess it is not here. gnomefreak@Develpment:/usr/lib/chromium-browser/plugins$ ls
[09:05] <gnomefreak> gnomefreak@Develpment:/usr/lib/chromium-browser/plugins$
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> magcius, did it reset to the correct value?
[09:05] <magcius> yes.
[09:05] <magcius> chrisccoulson, I assume it's a borked config update, and the updates after it assumed it was a user-set value
[09:05] <magcius> chrisccoulson, as the person if they had a borked home page as well
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> magcius, right, we need to try and figure out what's doing on :)
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> do you have any extensions installed?
[09:05] <magcius> it got set to chrome://branding/locale/browserconfig.properties
[09:06] <magcius> chrisccoulson, LastPass, Firebug, ABP, Scriptish
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> thanks, i'll take a look at those just to make sure they aren't doing something silly :)
[09:06] <magcius> Also, Firefox Sync
[09:06] <magcius> But that's dumb because it doesn't do the main thing I would use it for
[09:07] <magcius> ... all I want is to be able to sync my tabs and session across dual-boot and other such things :(
[09:07] <magcius> but it doesn't track app tabs and requires me to do this crazy "Tabs On Other Computers" hidden menu item dance that I just found today.
[09:11] <gnomefreak> can someone test bug 657586 we you get a minute. im going for smoke
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> magcius, have you restarted firefox since you reset that pref?
[09:30] <magcius> chrisccoulson, yeah.
[09:30] <magcius> I had to restart, otherwise it didn't "work"
[09:35] <gnomefreak> it seems flash is no different when using browser-plugin-gnash
[09:53] <fta2> [1:1:8764694682:ERROR:native_library_linux.cc(32)] dlopen failed when trying to open libsoftokn3.so: libsoftokn3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[09:53] <fta2> [1:1:8764695042:ERROR:native_library_linux.cc(32)] dlopen failed when trying to open libfreebl3.so: libfreebl3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[09:53] <fta2> chrisccoulson, ^^
[09:54] <fta2> did something change in nss?
[09:54] <fta2> x64
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - i don't think so :/
[09:55] <chrisccoulson> nss hasn't changed for a while
[09:59] <fta2> http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=chromium.git;a=blob;f=base/native_library_linux.cc;h=e282bce2213f5d4131d4db1b1275b0eab984b12a;hb=HEAD
[09:59] <fta2> not very helpful..
[10:04] <fta2> oh, it's not new: http://codereview.chromium.org/6672034
[10:04] <fta2> http://git.chromium.org/gitweb/?p=chromium.git;a=history;f=base/nss_util.cc;h=a074ab56f731663ab0ae03417126eab98211e077;hb=HEAD
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> fta - it works with --no-sandbox btw
[10:07] <chrisccoulson> it's a pain how all these problems seem to go away without the sandbox. makes them a bit difficult to debug ;)
[10:08] <fta2> "it" == breakpad?
[10:09] <chrisccoulson> fta - "it" = loading the nss libs
[10:09] <fta2> oh
[10:09] <fta2> chrisccoulson, well, that's the purpose of the zygote, pre-load stuff for use in the sandbox
[10:14] <fta2> chrisccoulson, weird, it seems the xdg-utils thing is working here, but not at home, using the same version
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - oh, i see why
[10:16] <chrisccoulson> i think they misunderstood me when i said "We're running the new stack which uses the x-scheme-handler mimetypes to register URL handlers, but we aren't actually running gnome 3 yet. This means that the gnome3 check in xdg-utils (which gnome-default-applications-properties 2> /dev/null || DE="gnome3") will tell you that the system isn't gnome3"
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> and they fixed a syntax problem in the gnome3 check, but it still has the same inherent problem on ubuntu
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> fta2, http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/deps/third_party/xdg-utils/scripts/xdg-utils-common.in?r1=81021&r2=81020&pathrev=81021
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> it's still checking for gnome-default-application-properties
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> which doesn't work for us :(
[10:17] <fta2> i patched it using your fix
[10:19] <fta2> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~chromium-team/chromium-browser/chromium-browser.head/view/head:/debian/patches/xdg-utils_gnome3_lp670128_for_natty.patch
[10:19] <fta2> hm, it's not part of your fix?
[10:27] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - do you have gnome-default-application-properties missing on the machine where it doesn't work?
[10:27] <fta2> indeed
[10:28] <chrisccoulson> bingo
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> fta2 - we need to drop this from detectDE: http://paste.ubuntu.com/593502/
[10:29] <chrisccoulson> i guess i should do that for our xdg-utils too
[10:29] <fta2> hold on
[10:30] <fta2> application vs applicationS
[10:30] <fta2> no, it's there on both machines
[10:30] <fta2> chrisccoulson, ^^
[10:30] <chrisccoulson> oh, ok :(
[10:31] <chrisccoulson> heh, i should have checked what i typed ;)
[10:34] <fta2> micahg, i checked the patch for the passwords keyring in stable. they disabled it because ch is deadlocking when you use the sync feature. there's also a security risk behind it. i'd prefer to keep it disabled for now until upstream figures it out
[14:02] <fta2> chrisccoulson, doh, so it impacts ch stable too: bug 759761
[14:02] <fta2> where is that damn bot?
[14:04] <chrisccoulson> not sure
[14:05] <chrisccoulson> it's gone on vacation
[14:17] <Fudge> ff 6.0a1 working well with gnome-orca :D
[16:41] <micahg> fta: ok, so do we include a news file stating that passwords will break?  I guess we don't want to pass password-store=detect either if there's a security risk
[17:02] <fta> micahg, what is the news file for? is it displayed somehow?
[17:02] <micahg> fta: I'm not sure, on the console it definitely is, I think update manager will display it as well
[17:24] <fta> *sigh* http://people.ubuntu.com/~fta/ppa-dashboard/chromium-daily.html
[20:22] <chrisccoulson> fta - we could do with backporting the latest yasm to lucid in the ubuntu-mozilla-daily PPA
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> i can't do that ;)
[20:32] <fta> chrisccoulson, well, i'm deep into chromium stuff atm. I don't really have time to prepare that package
[20:32] <micahg> I could upload that later
[20:40] <fta> hm, i think i finally nailed that chromium translation bug.. now i need to regenerate all the new tarballs :P
[21:20] <fta> chrisccoulson, do you need 1.1.0?
[21:34] <chrisccoulson> fta - yeah, that's right
[21:35] <chrisccoulson> (sorry, just went away for some food)
[21:53] <fta> chrisccoulson, done
[23:21] <LLStarks> eh. did we skip a few epochs or eras with  the ppa packaging of firefox?
[23:22] <kbrosnan> trunk builds are 6.0 if that is your query
[23:23] <LLStarks> new roadmap is surefine
[23:23] <LLStarks> and yes it was


[00:02] <greg-g> he'll be in town or virtual?
[00:57] <cmaloney> virtual
[15:15] <greg-g> cmaloney: is MUG still virtual or are folks coming back to the library for the event (and dinner?!)?
[15:21] <cmaloney> We're virtual for the foreseeable future
[15:25] <greg-g> ack, no more Red Lobster :(
[15:26] <cmaloney> We were doing Buddy's because Red Lobster started straining trying to accomidate us
[15:26] <cmaloney> not that it's less of an "awww, no Buddy's"
[15:28] <greg-g> hahaha


[00:45] <OvenWerks> zequence: Actually, if I use a little apt-cache magic, It should be possible to have The package names on the commandline and generate the menu from that. The desktop file could then determine what packages are shown.


[00:07] <John___> Can anyone help me with a sound issue? I have been working at this for the past two days with no luck.  PM me if you have some free time to help :)
[00:07] <Azelphur> !ask | John___
[00:07] <lubotu3`> John___: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
[00:08] <John___> ok thank you
[00:09] <John___> Problem with 3.5mm headset not playing sound
[00:11] <penguin42> but it works out of other sockets/speakers?
[00:12] <John___> yes
[00:12] <awilkins> John___, I'm going to bed, but I suggest you go here : http://www.alsa-project.org/main/index.php/Main_Page
[00:12] <penguin42> so it's either it's muted (an easy problem), or there is some automagic switch involved with when headphones are plugged in or Linux's idea of which socket is an input/output is wrong
[00:13] <John___> ok thanks awilkins :) night
[00:14] <awilkins> penguin42, John___ ; I had a problem like that - the most useful tools were the HDA-analyzer util and the thing that draws a graph of your audio codec... gnight
[00:14] <John___> Switched over to ubuntu from windows 2days ago and since than i have had no sound
[00:14] <penguin42> awilkins: Cool - not seen that!
[00:15] <awilkins> HDA analyzer is possibly only good for HDA based sound hardware though..
[00:16] <awilkins> But it's very common
[00:20] <John___> how do you run as a root user, ( trying to do python run.py )
[00:20] <penguin42> John___: sudo python run.py    would run it as root
[00:20] <penguin42> John___: Be careful of course, root is all powerful
[00:21] <John___> Just want my sound to work :,( would give my right leg for it
[00:23] <John___> have a large list of node's now
[00:23] <celesteh> Hello, I am running oneiric on a lenovo with gnome 3 and my touchpad is not working. it's fine on the login screen and works for a little while after i start gnome, but something in gnome kills it. This seems to correspond to when the tray thing at the bottom loads. How can I find out what the problem is?
[00:24] <John___> YAY SOUND!!!!!!!!!
[00:25] <John___> had a whole list of nodes muted
[00:25] <penguin42> ah good, the simple problem :-)
[00:27] <John___> yes :) thanks
[00:28] <John___> ohh one more thing ( kinda stupid ) I put steam / skyrim from windows on a P:HD, How can i convert them with wine so i dont have to re-install steam and skyrim again ( dont want to loose my saves for the game)
[01:15] <penguin42> the temperature variations are quite bizarre; last night it was about 2c at this time - it's 11c tonight
[01:23] <ubuntubhoy> be thankful then
[01:23] <ubuntubhoy> feckin hate the cold
[01:29] <penguin42> nod
[01:30] <ubuntubhoy> not so good for a dude called penguin
[01:30] <penguin42> ubuntubhoy: and that's why us penguins like a nice warm jumper and a scarf
[01:31] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[02:39] <penguin42> damn, I've just spent £250
[02:43] <Azelphur> what on?
[02:44] <penguin42> a pc for my mum
[02:44] <penguin42> which I'll have to file under 'I know there is more pain to come'
[02:50] <Azelphur> lol
[06:52]  * MartijnVdS submits his first patch of the day to the review system @ work
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> oooh...
[07:54] <MartijnVdS> On FedEx vehicle for delivery
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey - Next iPad may have a 2048x1536 res display. In 10" arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/11/ipad-3-super-high-res-displays-a-go-but-yields-will-be-low.ars
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> scary
[08:01] <MartijnVdS> also, would that be useful, films being 1920x1080ish
[08:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> It will need to ship with a magnifying glass :-)
[08:02] <AlanBell> nice, I was expecting that, retina display for ipad
[08:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> Another interesting display news item http://www.mirasoldisplays.com/blog/2011/11/butterfly-has-landed-qmt-announces-world%E2%80%99s-first-e-reader-use-mirasol%C2%AE-display
[08:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mirasol - first e-reader to feature color and interactive   content, outdoor visibility and battery life measured in weeks
[08:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Right school run time. Wifey in bed sick.  Canadians also have a most peculiar way of pronouncing out (as in roundabout) replace out with something resembling "oot" but not quite. Eh?
[09:26] <danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: IMO the easiest way to tell a Canuck from a Yank is to get them to say 'house'
[09:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> hoose!
[09:26] <danfish> exactamundo!
[09:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> I bet they get confused between mouse and moose ;-)
[09:27] <danfish> there's a mouse loose about this house :)
[09:28] <ubuntubhoy> Scots with Yankee accents ?
[09:29] <oimon> any thunderbird user experiencing massive lag when typing emails since upgrading past v3-> v7?
[09:29] <oimon> it's unusable :(
[09:31] <mattt> TheOpenSourcerer: "oout" and "aboot"
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: Sometimes TB seems to stall for me (but infrequently and only for a few seconds). But I also seem to get these stalls on other apps too so not sure if it's just TB. Am on 3.1.15 currently.
[09:31] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: time for an ssd
[09:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> I suspect it is Gloda doing it's indexing malarkey.
[09:31] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps
[09:32] <oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: basically it dies and becomes useless each night
[09:32] <oimon> was fine on v3.x
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oh. No I don't get that sort of issue. FWIW, I lurk on the moz.dev.tb and moz.support.tb and calendar lists and have not seen any issues like this reported.
[09:33] <oimon> oh. i might trash my profile and start again then
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> how big is your ~/.thunderbird dir?
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> alord@lobsang:~$ du -sh /home/alord/.thunderbird/
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> 10G	/home/alord/.thunderbird/
[09:35] <oimon> 5.2GB. most mail is on imap server
[09:35] <oimon> although it's behaving even more weird right now as i can't traverse menu items
[09:37] <TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: You could also try discussing your issue on #ubuntu-mozillateam (It's mainly ubuntu devs and packagers fwict).
[09:37] <oimon> sweet
[09:37] <oimon> i'll try the new profile first :D
[09:44] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
[09:45] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer: / oimon i get stalls in TB too
[09:46] <popey> and only in TB
[09:46] <oimon> which version popey?
[09:46] <popey> whatever is in 11.10
[09:46] <oimon> i used to get stalls but worked around that with disabling of indexing
[09:46] <oimon> now mine just goes slow and malfunctions after being left on overnight
[09:46] <oimon> previously in v3 i could leave it running for weeks
[09:49] <czajkowski> there is a creche beside our office and I was one of the parents who left my kids in there I'd be pulling them out and far far away. they seem miserable in there and don't stop crying from the time they go in there till home time
[09:49] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Think you missed out an "if" in there ;-)
[09:50] <oimon> i think thats what happens when kids get together with other kids
[09:50] <oimon> one kids starts them all off
[09:50] <TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski's secret love child outs
[09:50] <Myrtti> blue cheese pizza ♥
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> My kids really liked their nursery. It was messy and chaotic but the kids had a whale of a time :-)
[09:51] <JGJones> Greetings
[09:51] <oimon> although i went to pick up my son from creche at church the other day and i couldn't find him..turned out he was playing quietly on his own in a pop-up tent thing....sweet
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahhh
[09:51] <AlanBell> what makes you think they stop crying when they go home
[09:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:51] <oimon> :)
[09:51] <oimon> my son whinges unless he has constant attention from every adult in the house
[09:52] <Myrtti> AlanBell: the fact that kids get a headache from crying too much and they have to stop at sometime or their heads would explode
[09:52] <czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: hah
[09:52] <czajkowski> no I don't mind kids crying, but these don't stop it's liek someone is pinching them
[09:52] <czajkowski> one kid onf friday cried for 3 hrs straight
[09:52] <Myrtti> I rode the bus yesterday back home from an Android meetup and a kid was whaling the whole 20 minute ride
[09:53] <Myrtti> I had to wonder how bad a headache he had afterwards
[09:53] <Myrtti> I still remember how mine were
[09:54] <JGJones> Kids crying/screaming etc? There's always an advantage to being able to turn off hearing aids ;-)
[09:54] <Myrtti> JGJones: silver lining eh :-P
[09:55] <oimon> i often see kids on the train completely ignored by their mums though. makes me sad. they are asking questions and the mum is just reading the paper
[09:55] <oimon> at least give the kid a book to read
[09:55] <oimon> if yuo're gonna ignore then
[09:58] <oimon> grr just got some insurance txt spam
[10:00] <ujjain> what is cut a tooth? same as pull a tooth?
[10:00] <oimon> ujjain: no, it's when the tooth is growing and breaks through the skin
[10:01] <ujjain> oimon: ah thanks! :)
[10:01] <ujjain> I did an English test, I did pretty bad.  Children see, children do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHi2dxSf9hw
[10:02] <ujjain> DJones: thanks :)
[10:03] <ujjain> all my life I ... (verb love + go) to the movies... I had 'All my life I loved going to the movies', is that 100% wrong?
[10:03] <Myrtti> have loved
[10:04] <ujjain> thanks, that is the right answer.
[10:04] <Myrtti> it's not 100% wrong
[10:05] <ujjain> I had 3 wrong out of 11, on 5 questions all/most answers seemed right to me.
[10:05] <oimon> because it's continuing. however if you were speaking of a dead person, you are allowed to say "all his life, he loved going to the movies"
[10:05] <ujjain> I understand, I was a bit disappointed though that I had such difficulty.
[10:06] <ujjain> I see. :) thanks.
[10:06] <danfish> heh - android ICS on a G1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym4A82ft5pw&feature=player_embedded#!
[10:06] <oimon> if you no longer do it, you can also say "i used to love going to the movies, but now it is too expensive and most films are 3D rubbish anyway"
[10:06] <Myrtti> or if you loved going to the movies, but then after someone threw up in your popcorn, didn't like it anymore...
[10:07] <ujjain> 1,2,6,7,9 seemed to have multiple right answers for me, http://www.englishtag.com/tests/level_test_lower_advanced_C1_answers.asp - http://www.codepad.eu/view/7161459
[10:07] <ujjain> thanks very much! :)
[10:07] <ujjain> I am still looking for good methods to improve my English. However reading Yahoo answers, English-talking sites, seems to only make it worse.
[10:08] <oimon> ujjain: for q6 check the tense in both parts
[10:09] <ujjain> oimon: Your birthday party will be next month = correct though?
[10:09] <Myrtti> ujjain: books.
[10:09] <Myrtti> ujjain: audiobooks, written books.
[10:10] <ujjain> Your birthday party is going to be next month.
[10:10] <oimon> i think so, although a huge amount of english people say 6A, so you would be understood :)
[10:10] <Myrtti> preferably nothing written after 2000
[10:10] <ujjain> Yes, In Dutch it makes more sense to use 'is' too, the birthday is next month.
[10:11] <oimon> wow some of these questions are hard :)
[10:11] <ujjain> Myrtti: thanks, I should look for some good books, most educative material is very basic, but I guess I'll have to search better.
[10:12] <ujjain> oimon: hehe, it was disappointing for me to see my results, I always considered my English to be 'very good'.
[10:12] <ujjain> It's C1 test, there is A1/A2/B1/B2/C1/C2.
[10:16] <Myrtti> Finns, according to my BF, tend to for get the a/the particles
[10:16] <Myrtti> s/for get/forget/
[10:17] <ujjain> they're bad at science?
[10:18] <bigcalm> My Finnish ex-gf took delight in correcting my English :S
[10:18] <ujjain> article = particle?
[10:18] <Myrtti> bigcalm: I know, it's my vice as well
[10:18] <ujjain> my Finnish gf...
[10:18] <ujjain> I joke :p
[10:18] <Myrtti> I've forgotten most of my Finnish too.
[10:19] <oimon> scandi's and dutch tend to be excellent english speakers
[10:19]  * Myrtti goes back to knitting and listening to Stephen Fry read Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
[10:19] <bigcalm> I find myself saying Milk, Water and Thank You in Finnish. Some things just don't go away
[10:20] <Myrtti> your girlfriend did a better job at teaching you Finnish than I've done with D
[10:20] <Myrtti> :-(
[10:20] <ujjain> oimon: right, although you can easily recognize most dutch people by their accent.
[10:21] <Myrtti> let's not start the discussion of accents
[10:21] <oimon> shexshy
[10:21] <Myrtti> I shiver when I think of the Finnish Rally English
[10:21] <Myrtti> oh god
[10:21] <ujjain> well, Dutch by Germans is easily spotted too :) Probably other way around too, no sure.
[10:21] <oimon> Myrtti: have you ever watched that hideous eastenders programme? i can tell you that it isn't fake.
[10:22] <Myrtti> oimon: they show only Corrie here :-P
[10:23] <Myrtti> and I'm picky about what I watch from telly anyway
[10:23] <oimon> that's horrible too
[10:23] <bigcalm> "Not much has changed in the web/ directory. The most noticeable difference is the absence of the css/, js/ and images/ directories." - I would say that's a rather major change.
[10:24] <Myrtti> history shows, some cooking shows, science shows, some DIY/redecoration shows, and some standup
[10:25] <oimon> soon i will be playing zelda instead of watching telly
[10:25] <bigcalm> I hope somebody buys it from my wishlist for me
[10:25]  * oimon is getting a gold controller
[10:25] <oimon> although the price changed overnight  in the wrong direction :(
[10:26] <Myrtti> I'm annoyed I can't figure out a way to do something like what get_iplayer does, 4oD and iPlayer websites worked rubbish on my tablet and downloading iplayer stuff and watching the video on vlc worked so much better
[10:26] <Myrtti> oh, missed a word
[10:27]  * oimon ponders correcting Myrtti's grammar
[10:27] <Myrtti> I'm annoyed I can't figure out a way to do something like what get_iplayer does *with 4oD*
[10:27] <ujjain> I use css js images directories.
[10:27] <oimon> "were rubbish" or "worked badly" :P
[10:28] <Myrtti> oimon: that's just grammar. Forgetting words made the whole thing not make any sense at all.
[10:28] <Myrtti> :-(
[10:28] <Myrtti> double fail
[10:28] <oimon> ah i understand the sentence now
[10:28] <ujjain> thanks for blackadder by the way.
[10:29] <oimon> what tablet Myrtti?
[10:29] <gord> i think the best option right now is *cough* certain *cough* websites. that like. y'know. arrrr.
[10:29] <oimon> gord?
[10:29] <oimon> ah i see
[10:29]  * dogmatic69 got a second motorbike \o/
[10:29] <Myrtti> oimon: exopc - I've not managed to get the CrystalHD to work on this yet
[10:29] <gord> although honestly... i end up buying dvds of anything on channel 4 thats worth it and ripping my own stuff to my file server, stream off that
[10:29] <daubers> dogmatic69: :( I need to get my first
[10:29] <oimon> i prefer not to y'arrr
[10:30] <daubers> (proper bike, not 125cc putput)
[10:30] <dogmatic69> daubers: good time of year to buy :)
[10:30] <daubers> dogmatic69: Bad time to buy, trying to buy a house
[10:30] <dogmatic69> daubers: i got the RVF400 and now a RGV250
[10:30] <Myrtti> gord: when in UK it's just less hassle to use the actual service they offer - 4oD has *all
[10:30] <Myrtti> * episodes of Grand Designs.
[10:30] <dogmatic69> daubers: good time to buy a house, if you can get a loan
[10:31] <daubers> dogmatic69: Yeah, mortgage shouldn't be a problem tbh
[10:31] <daubers> got 25% deposit and borrowing less than 3x income
[10:31] <dogmatic69> just the fat deposit
[10:31] <oimon> aren't interest rates about to go up a lot?
[10:31] <gord> Myrtti, right, i mean if you can't actually use their service, if for example, it doesn't work well. or in my case, i can't run it on the box hooked up to my tv because they offer no integration with things outside their flash player
[10:31] <dogmatic69> ah, nice
[10:31] <daubers> oimon: doubt it, unless italy or greece explodes
[10:33] <dogmatic69> daubers: just sneak a few % out the deposit and get a bike :P
[10:37] <daubers> dogmatic69: Last test on Monday
[10:37] <daubers> !
[10:37] <dogmatic69> mod 2?
[10:38] <daubers> yup
[10:38] <dogmatic69> nice, good luck
[10:38] <dogmatic69> hope the weather is good, they like canceling bookings for things like a slight breeze
[10:39] <daubers> heh, hopefully won't get too icy over the weekend
[10:40] <dogmatic69> yesterday morning was close, almost put the bike in the shed :/
[10:43] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:44]  * JGJones ponders...tempted to switch to virginmedia - it's now enabled for where I live...but then I need to save money - xmas and all that...
[10:44] <JGJones> oh and need a new telly
[10:44] <bigcalm> Cable is gooooood
[10:44] <bigcalm> When it works
[10:44] <brobostigon> yep, you need to be able to watch big bang theory, :)
[10:45] <bigcalm> The TV service is pretty rock solid. The BB is irritating at times sadly
[10:46] <bigcalm> JGJones: if you know somebody at VM, they can get you on mates rates - top wack tv/phone packages with 30mb bb and at half the cost
[10:47] <brobostigon> only time when i had cable, was over a decade ago, with telewest, for just under two years.
[10:48] <oimon> VM customers have a honeymoon period, then they start hating VM
[10:48] <bigcalm> But we put up with it if we can get substantial discounts :)
[10:49] <brobostigon> it has to be better than carphone-warehouse/talktalk.?
[10:49] <oimon> not IME
[10:49] <brobostigon> that is if we could get cable.
[10:49] <bigcalm> I've found cable to be more reliable than adsl. But it will depend upon how good your telephone lines are
[10:50] <brobostigon> bigcalm: for around 1.5 weeks a month, it is unreliable, ie, it wont sync half the time. that is very unreliable. on average.
[10:51] <bigcalm> If ADSL went down, the ISP would blame BT and BT would blame the ISP. With VM cable, they only have themselves to blame :)
[10:51] <oimon> if all your street are on cable, then it's possible that you get slowdown (read 50% packet loss) on evenings and weekends
[10:52] <danfish> with VM, it's finding about which number to call if there's a problem. There are 'hidden' support line numbers esp if you are on primium packages
[10:53] <oimon> wow, that's the ryanair approach to customer support
[10:53] <danfish> http://www.saynoto0870.com/companysearch.php is a good place to search
[10:53] <brobostigon> best for my sanity i have found with talktalk, as last time i spoke to them, i started shouting down the phone at them, is, i give my dad techinical instruction, so he knows what he is talking about, and let him sort it out.
[10:54] <oimon> i've never had to call talktalk
[10:54] <brobostigon> thats good, good for and better for your sanity, :)
[10:56] <oimon> i would like to give up my phone  and just have internet though
[11:08] <cliftonts> oimon, are you with talk talk?
[11:12] <oimon> cliftonts: yep
[11:12] <davmor2> morning all
[11:12] <davmor2> czajkowski: prod
[11:14] <czajkowski> davmor2: meh
[11:14] <cliftonts> oimon: RUN! While you still can!
[11:14]  * czajkowski throws a bucket of ice over davmor2
[11:15] <oimon> cliftonts: what's coming?
[11:15] <chrisjrob> just like in the movies - they always stop to ask why
[11:16] <cliftonts> well, if you're really unlucky talk talk
[11:16] <cliftonts> I only ever dealt with them once and it took TWO MONTHS to get my dial tone back!
[11:35] <popey> jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
[11:35] <popey> https://plus.google.com/108611501090787019364/posts/dAJhnFQ4fkM
[11:35] <popey> All morons welcome!
[11:37] <cliftonts> erm...
[11:37] <Myrtti> 404
[11:38] <cliftonts> popey, if I'm reading that right you're arguing that ubuntu is an operating system and some guy disagrees?
[11:38] <Myrtti> oh right, some fail in my terminator usage
[11:38] <Myrtti> fabsh is what fabsh is
[11:38] <AlanBell> cliftonts: it is more meta than that
[11:38] <cliftonts> more meta?
[11:39] <Myrtti> one of the multiple reasons I stopped using identi.ca
[11:39] <popey> the other guy thinks people shouldn't call ubuntu an OS
[11:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> yawn
[11:39] <AlanBell> fab said it isn't, popey says it is, not sure who fab was replying to or if he was ranting at the air
[11:39]  * AlanBell doesn't care
[11:39] <popey> the latter
[11:39] <popey> I'm just using this as an opportunity to take the mick ☺
[11:39] <cliftonts> popey I'm getting worried now, if I've been using my pc without an os for 6 years, surely I've been staring at the POST screen?
[11:39] <popey> hah
[11:40] <oimon> fab is a troll and he knows it
[11:40] <cliftonts> so if he thinks ubuntu isn't an os, what does he feel your os is exactly?
[11:41] <popey> "meh" ☺
[11:41] <Myrtti> so,
[11:41] <Myrtti> expeliamus
[11:41] <Myrtti> *poof*
[11:42] <Myrtti> now that the troll is gone
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: no no no, you get rid of trolls by clubbing them with their own club - Wingardium Leviosa!
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> ;)
[11:43] <Myrtti> well strictly speaking he does have a point
[11:43] <Myrtti> Ubuntu is not an OS. Linux kernel is.
[11:43] <Myrtti> and the GNU tools that make it somewhat usable for an end user
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> Myrtti: then Android isn't an OS either
[11:43] <MartijnVdS> and OS is the kernel + its userland
[11:43] <popey> Strictly speaking he should not focus just on Ubuntu
[11:44] <Myrtti> popey: exactly
[11:44] <oimon> it's not worth discussing guys...it's just troll fodder
[11:44] <cliftonts> but do we not consider the ubuntu customisations and the kernal together to be ubuntu?
[11:44] <popey> So ubuntu on TVs!
[11:44] <cliftonts> since we can't use ubuntu without the kernel
[11:44] <popey> (subject change there)
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> yes, can't see that happening soon
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> same as Google TV
[11:44] <popey> what about set top boxes?
[11:44] <davmor2> popey: I'm all moroned up
[11:44] <popey> or Apple T Vlike devices?
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> but Ubuntu has the codec problem (most TV content is H.264)
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> + crypto/drm
[11:45] <popey> we have codecs for that
[11:45] <popey> gstreamer fluendo ones
[11:45] <popey> they do h264
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> sure, but not DRM
[11:46] <Laney> spotify:track:6dH3J9xtoS9jYA7ooDlobZ
[11:46] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: You can purchase the DRM version from vendors that isn't the end of the world
[11:46] <popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UltraViolet_(system)
[11:46] <Myrtti> Laney: should that link work in some other way than copypaste?
[11:47] <Myrtti> Laney: http links would be more useful :-(
[11:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: "Apple and Disney do not support this format.[4]"
[11:47] <MartijnVdS> popey: quite important players
[11:47] <popey> yeah, bummer ☹
[11:47] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: Fluendo do a dvd player that includes decryption it's not impossible to support
[11:47] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: no but there _is_ an obstacle atm
[11:47] <popey> what about the other side of it
[11:48] <popey> playing back your own media or watching telly
[11:48] <popey> like xbmc/myth
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> I'd love that
[11:48] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: No you just buy the player from Fluendo the end
[11:48] <MartijnVdS> popey: but I don't see how Unity is going to help me with that
[11:48] <popey> hmmm
[11:49] <Myrtti> HA!
[11:49] <Laney> Myrtti: you can patch your terminal emulator, but otherwise no
[11:49] <popey> HA?
[11:49] <Laney> I just find going through the browser more tiresome
[11:49] <Myrtti> Stephen Fry pronounces Nougat like I pronounce it!
[11:49] <Laney> ymmv
[11:49] <Myrtti> VICTORY
[11:49] <popey> HA‽
[11:49] <popey> Myrtti: nooogar or nugget?
[11:49] <Myrtti> former
[11:50] <popey> thats because he's british and we say fings like proper
[11:50] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[11:50] <popey> innit
[11:50] <davmor2> popey: Man you're so street, boyacka
[11:50]  * brobostigon cringes.
[11:51] <oimon> does guildford have a silent first D?
[11:51] <Myrtti> well D teases me about how I pronounce it
[11:51] <Myrtti> :-|
[11:51] <oimon> i call it om-nom
[11:51] <Myrtti> mmmm nougat, the ultimate seasonal treat
[11:52] <popey> oimon: yes
[11:52] <oimon> a foreigner once asked if guildford and gillford were different places
[11:52] <popey> Gilf'd
[11:52] <Myrtti> Wiener Nougat is the one I have for Christmas, it has little flakes of almond
[11:52] <popey> Nougat++
[11:52] <Myrtti> and for Easter Mignon eggs
[11:52] <Myrtti> real chicken egg emptied and filled with nougat
[11:52] <Myrtti> mmmmmmm
[11:52] <Myrtti> nougat
[11:53] <Myrtti> oimon: it's not the only place that confuses with how it's pronounced
[11:53] <davmor2> oimon: There are places that make Guildford sound like a pleasure to pronounce.  For example Brewood is pronounced Brood
[11:54] <JGJones> Hmm - would anyone know of an electronic booking system of some sort? Open or closed - doesn't matter but a decent one for a small business?
[11:54] <Myrtti> Chicester took forever for me to learn
[11:54] <Myrtti> chichester, even
[11:54] <Laney> luffbra
[11:54] <oimon> i discovered one of the worst words in the english language is palimpsest
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> oimon: aka "disk-utility" ;)
[11:55] <oimon> it's also a real word
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> I Know
[11:55] <oimon> a bad one
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> A palimpsest is a manuscript page from a scroll or book from which the text has been scraped off and which can be used again.
[11:55] <AlanBell> it makes gimp seem like a good name for an application
[11:55] <Myrtti> ok, now I may need to fiddle with audacity or something to cut this piece of audiobook into a clip and send it to D
[11:55] <MartijnVdS> which sounds right for hard disks etc. :)
[11:55] <oimon> etch-a-sketch would never have taken off if it was called that
[11:56] <JGJones> I still can't get used to calling the town my dad live near as "Toaster"
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> oimon: palimpsest-a-sketch?
[11:56] <oimon> i came across it in real-world the other day when re-reading 1984
[11:56] <MartijnVdS> JGJones: "Toaster"?
[11:56] <JGJones> Towcester
[11:56]  * AlanBell has a customer in towcester
[11:56] <davmor2> AlanBell: You had to come and lower the tone didn't you ;)
[11:57] <AlanBell> davmor2: every time I spot it getting too highbrow I like to bring it down a notch
[11:57] <davmor2> AlanBell: haha
[11:58] <JGJones> Well if you look up gimp on Wikipedia you can get confirmation that Jimmy Welsh is indeed a gimp....
[11:58] <oimon> ugh
[11:58] <manly_les> hello, i'm running oneiric with gnome 3 and i think something in gnome is conflicting with my touchpad, so it doesn't work. does anybody have any tips on how i might figure out what the problem is?
[11:58] <oimon> i used to have a adblock rule to block that thing
[11:59] <JGJones> Jimmy Wales even...
[11:59] <davmor2> we have the locals pronouncing Smethwick as smerick took me ages to figure out where smerick was
[11:59] <Laney> belvoir is a good one near here
[11:59] <Laney> = beaver
[12:02]  * oimon realises he hasn;t listened to the last 2 UUPC episodes
[12:04] <oimon> has anyone played oblivion? have a question about it
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2011-04/cp110037en.pdf
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> popey: ^
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> According to Advocate General Cruz Villalón, a measure ordering an internet
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> service provider to install a system for filtering and blocking electronic
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> communications in order to protect intellectual property rights in principle infringes
[12:30] <MartijnVdS> fundamental rights
[12:41] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: that was an opinion, in April
[12:41] <AlanBell> however the judgement is today
[12:41] <AlanBell> http://curia.europa.eu/jurisp/cgi-bin/form.pl?lang=EN&Submit=rechercher&numaff=C-70/10
[12:42] <popey> pondering lunch
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> uhr yes
[12:42] <davmor2> popey: I have to wonder what fab was thinking to be honest, especially when all the distributions call their distribution an Operating System :)
[12:42] <AlanBell> so basically the opinion was upheld in judgement today
[12:42] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: which is good..
[12:42] <popey> davmor2: "meh"
[12:43] <popey> every time he blurts out crap like that it makes me less likely to want to be involved in oggcamp
[12:44] <daubers> cat fab > /dev/null
[12:44] <daubers> end of story
[12:45] <MartijnVdS> /dev/fab -> /dev/random
[12:45] <davmor2> daubers: you trying to kill your system /dev/null can't handle that much rubbish ;)
[12:45] <daubers> davmor2: I don't even think the ghostbusters laser containment grid could contain that much rubbish :)
[12:46] <awilkins> It's a big twinkie.
[12:48] <brobostigon> :)
[12:49] <oimon> if all you knew of fab was from oggcamp you wouldn't realise he is a part time internet troll
[12:50] <daubers> he does seem to behave/be intimidated into submission at oggcamp
[12:50] <davmor2> oimon: Part time?
[12:50] <oimon> or is actually a nice guy, but it's all too easy to stir up stuff on the internet
[12:51] <oimon> i have the same problem at work. when i'm in a seminar and they invite answers from the attendees : do you agree/disagree with this? i can't help but say something if i disagree
[12:51] <daubers> just managed to spill my coffee all over my desk :(
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> :(
[12:52] <oimon> the real full time troll is that guy i keep seeing on g+ with the red fedora on his head...jan de wilderbeest or something
[12:52] <chrisjrob> fab does actually believe everything he says, which isn't particularly trollish
[12:52] <MartijnVdS> chrisjrob: ah so he's just wrong, wrong, wrong
[12:52] <chrisjrob> it's just no-one else does!
[12:53] <oimon> A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject
[12:54] <chrisjrob> he used to be fanatically pro-ubuntu
[12:54] <oimon> what happened?
[12:54] <chrisjrob> can't recall, moved to fedora some time ago
[12:55] <popey> he also used to be fanatically pro-identica
[12:55] <chrisjrob> oimon: your mission is to listen to every outlaws episode and until you find out and report back
[12:55] <oimon> noooooooooooooooooooo
[12:56] <czajkowski> aKademy annoucned http://dot.kde.org/2011/11/24/akademy-2012-tallinn-estonia
[12:57] <chrisjrob> popey: yes, i followed him for a short time
[12:57] <popey> he's a nice guy in real life, i dunno why his online persona is such a douche
[12:57] <siriusly> I thought for a while he WAS identica! ;)
[12:57] <chrisjrob> a one man microblogging avalanche
[12:58] <popey> hey ho
[12:58] <MartijnVdS> just like popey _is_ Google PLus
[13:00] <oimon> irl i have approx 50x more tact.
[13:02] <MartijnVdS> irl doesn't exist
[13:04] <oimon> 404 error?
[13:04] <MartijnVdS> 410, gone ;)
[13:04] <oimon> it is dark here
[13:05] <oimon> you were hit by a grue
[13:06] <davmor2> oimon: set grue on fire and use it to light your way
[13:06] <oimon> light grue
[13:06] <oimon> you can't do it
[13:07] <oimon> wow this is just like playing oblivion
[13:07] <daubers> !zork
[13:07] <daubers> :(
[13:07] <oimon> http://pot.home.xs4all.nl/infocom/zork1.html
[13:08] <daubers> \o/
[13:08] <oimon> twin kingdom valley was my favourite adventure when i were a lad
[13:12] <dwatkins> oimon: that was a great game :)
[13:12] <oimon> never did finish it though..days before walkthroughs
[13:12] <czajkowski> .c
[13:12] <dwatkins> same here, too difficult - played it loads though
[13:13] <oimon> yeah
[13:13] <oimon> BBC/electron?
[13:25] <daubers> woop! 4 house viewings booked for saturday
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1360598
[13:25] <daubers> all in FttC areas :)
[13:26] <AlanBell> excellent :)
[13:44] <popey> chaps...
[13:44] <popey> actually, scratch that
[13:45] <Laney> for some reason i am listening to the so solid crew
[13:45] <oimon> eww
[13:45] <davmor2> popey: Oh you don't want scratchy chaps
[13:45] <popey> name all the things we've ever "removed from Ubuntu"... Gimp, evolution ..
[13:45] <popey> what else?
[13:46] <oimon> from default?
[13:46] <popey> ya
[13:46] <gord> kinda scary how many uk mirrors are listed as "last update unknown" on the launchpad mirrors page
[13:46] <popey> blamejpds
[13:46] <oimon> apt-get, tomboy (soon), pitivi?
[13:47] <popey> aptitude ITYM
[13:47] <oimon> aptitude
[13:47] <oimon> yep
[13:47] <popey> ta
[13:47] <oimon> my brain transalted it
[13:47] <gord> popey, you are on virgin right? is their repo up to date? have recommended people on vm use that in the past
[13:47] <popey> no idea, i dont use it
[13:49] <Myrtti> I just use the mirror benchmark
[13:49] <Myrtti> and pick the fastest
[13:49] <gord> well yeah thats the problem, quite a few are at least a week old
[13:49] <davmor2> gord there is a virgin repo?
[13:49] <popey> yes
[13:50] <gord> davmor2, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archivemirrors
[13:50] <popey> http://ubuntu.virginmedia.com/archive/
[13:50] <popey> 24-Nov-2011 05:23
[13:50] <popey> looks good
[13:51] <gord> am looking at https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+mirror/ubuntu.virginmedia.com-archive specifically - but it may be lying to me
[13:51] <davmor2> gord nice
[13:53] <Laney> popey: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/ubuntu.precise/changes is the raw seed changes
[13:55] <Laney> cheese?
[13:56] <daubers> gnome2
[13:58] <popey> cheese was ever in?
[13:58] <popey> maybe on nbr
[13:58] <daubers> vim!
[13:58] <Laney> ARGH
[13:58] <Laney> no more so solid crew please
[13:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> Son's school just sent out an email: "Waverley Abbey School will be open as usual on 30th November.  A letter will be sent home with the children on Friday setting out the position of staff."
[13:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> I suspect the staff will say something like we don't strike.
[13:59] <TheOpenSourcerer> And we all vote Tory anyway :-)
[14:00] <popey> ours dont
[14:00] <popey> and wifeys previous employer told them not to
[14:01] <MartijnVdS> I don't think employers can tell (or even ASK) you how to vote here..
[14:01] <popey> because they're private schools, the local authority dont set pay scales
[14:01] <popey> so the issue doesnt affect them, so they 'shouldn't
[14:01] <Laney> pidgin
[14:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: I think popey means striking, rather than voting.
[14:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> :-p
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: ah, I think going on strike should be outlawed :)
[14:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> +1
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it never helps, and it inconveniences the wrong people.
[14:02] <ali1234> i also think striking should be outlawed
[14:02] <MartijnVdS> there's going to be a public transport strike in a few weeks here
[14:03] <MartijnVdS> Because they want to get paid more. You won't get more if you don't serve your customers properly!
[14:03] <ali1234> because then, the population will have absolutely no reason not to go on a riot and burn down the houses of parliament
[14:03] <ali1234> i mean it's illegal either way right?
[14:03] <ali1234> or it would be
[14:04] <ali1234> the strike is about pensions actually
[14:04] <popey> Laney: ahh!
[14:04] <Laney> my brain cannot find any more
[14:06] <Laney> debdiff ubuntu-desktop, ubuntu-minimal (etc) between releases if you want to know the real story :-)
[14:07] <popey> ☺
[14:07] <Laney> vitamin string quartet have done an absurd number of albums
[14:07] <chrisjrob> don't think the teachers will get any public sumpathy
[14:07] <chrisjrob> *sympathy
[14:13] <ali1234> the ironic thing is that the teacher strike inconveniences exactly the right group of people: families where both parents have a job that increase the cost of living for everyone else while treating school as "free" daycare
[14:13] <Azelphur> curiosity question, what permissions do people usually set on /var/www?
[14:13] <popey> Azelphur: i dont
[14:13] <Azelphur> I opted for $USER:www-data and g+s
[14:13] <Azelphur> o.O
[14:14] <popey> i put websites in /srv/example.com/www
[14:14] <Azelphur> well ok then, wherever your htdocs are at :P
[14:14] <popey> and logs in /srv/example/logs/
[14:14] <popey> s/example/example.com/
[14:14] <popey> anyway.
[14:14] <popey> yeah, owned by www-data
[14:14] <Azelphur> fun
[14:15] <Azelphur> mine are $user:www-data so I have a user that can read write there without sudo
[14:17] <Laney> does our apache use /srv or /var by default these days?
[14:18] <brobostigon>  /var/www
[14:18] <AlanBell> /var/www
[14:19] <shauno> could be worse.  how does /Library/WebServer/Documents rock you
[14:19] <popey> c:\inetsrv
[14:21] <shauno> I use /srv/service/host, but I see the logic behind /srv/host/service
[14:21] <Myrtti> I don't think it has ever been in /srv
[14:21] <Myrtti> I was just looking for the window key and stumbled across installation disks for 8.04 and 5.10
[14:24] <shauno> I don't believe so either.  It's one of those times where sensible & default are two completely different things
[14:25] <Laney> some stuff encourages you to use /srv (wordpress)
[14:26] <Laney> but really it is up to the administrator
[14:27] <diplo> I use /srv/www/html
[14:28] <Azelphur> why is it that most server hosts insist on doing really irritating things with the default Ubuntu install
[14:28] <Azelphur> like enabling the root account, and removing APT repositories
[14:29] <popey> enabling root makes total sense on a server
[14:29] <Azelphur> I don't think so, I prefer it disabled for the same reasons I prefer it disabled at home.
[14:29] <Azelphur> it's disabled on my server
[14:30] <popey> although the single user stuff works differently now so maybe less of a problem
[14:30] <gord> gandi have a silly setup like that, i mean i don't really care or know enough about root enabled - but its different than i what i use on any other ubuntu machine
[14:30] <gord> doesn't take much effort to change it back to default though
[14:31] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu 12.04 Accessibility Plans - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/11/24/ubuntu-12-04-accessibility-plans/
[14:31] <Azelphur> gord yea, they do other irritating things like disabling half the repos often, too.
[14:32] <gord> well yeah, i mean thats normal
[14:32] <Azelphur> why?
[14:32] <gord> because only main is supported
[14:32] <davmor2> Azelphur: What repos do you think are disabled
[14:32] <Azelphur> davmor2: usually they disable multiverse and such in the default install
[14:33] <Azelphur> sorry, not multiverse
[14:33] <Azelphur> universe \o/
[14:34] <Azelphur> gord that makes no sense though, why does it being officially or not officially support them give them the right to modify the stock install and then sell it as Ubuntu?
[14:34] <Azelphur> surely if it's modified, it's no longer Ubuntu and they shouldn't be distributing it as such?
[14:34] <davmor2> Azelphur: Yeah so their job is to ship a product that is supported which is only main,  If you enable universe it's on your head if it goes pearshaped as gord says
[14:34] <popey> ubuntu ships with universe/multiverse enabled by default
[14:34] <popey> has done for ages
[14:34] <Azelphur> ^ This
[14:34] <popey> its their choice what they deliver though
[14:35] <Laney> it's not like most users have a support contract
[14:35] <Azelphur> but the hosts take it upon themselves to disable it :P
[14:35] <popey> you are making a mountain out of a molehill IMO
[14:35] <gord> +1
[14:35] <gord> it takes about two seconds to correct
[14:35] <Azelphur> *shrug*
[14:35] <Azelphur> it's not really that easy to correct, have to find a machine that has a non-broken sources.list and copy it in
[14:35] <Azelphur> unless there's an easier way
[14:36] <Laney> modification> ubuntu patches so many upstream projects and does not rename them
[14:36] <popey> the format hasnt changed for years
[14:36] <gord> Azelphur, erm, add universe and multiverse to the source line that already exists
[14:36] <Azelphur> ah :p
[14:36] <popey> perl -p -i -e 's/main\ /main\ universe\ multiverse/g' /etc/apt/sources.list
[14:36] <popey> job done
[14:36] <gord> they are all different in a regular sources.list just so that its easy to enable/disable them
[14:37] <Azelphur> hehe
[14:37] <popey> ooo missed a space
[14:37] <popey> perl -p -i -e 's/main\ /main\ universe\ multiverse\ /g' /etc/apt/sources.list
[14:37] <Azelphur> spose it's easy to fix then, it irritates me though
[14:37] <ali1234> perl
[14:38] <ali1234> :(
[14:38] <MartijnVdS> \o/ perl
[14:38]  * gord is guessing that 90% of the reason popey uses that instead of sed is because of -p -i -e
[14:38] <Azelphur> I like my current host, Give them URL to ISO -> You get what you asked for
[14:38] <popey> correct
[14:38] <gord> its the reason i shall in the future
[14:38] <Azelphur> haha
[14:39] <gord> huh, misstyping "less" as "echo" sure does make you feel dumb when you get the result
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> ARGH
[14:39] <MartijnVdS> Why do I get 600.000 "Linux kernel vulnerability" emails from the security team
[14:40] <MartijnVdS> can't they just merge it all into one message/
[14:40] <shauno> so 'Commodore USA' have a linux distro now.  iiiinteresting.
[14:50] <shauno> and they've set $PS1 as 'READY'.  nice  lol
[14:51] <bigcalm> !ping
[14:51] <lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
[15:51] <bigcalm> Google Apps smtp stopped sending for peeps?
[15:53] <bigcalm> !ping
[15:53] <lubotu3`> another contentless ping... sigh...
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> *tumbleweed*
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> I don't use the SMTP on google apps
[15:53] <MartijnVdS> only the web interface
[15:56] <shauno> I'm too much of a control freak to put google in charge of my email :/
[15:57] <bigcalm> It woke up eventually
[15:57] <bigcalm> shauno: company email, don't really have a choice :)
[15:57] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Let go! You can do it!
[15:58] <MartijnVdS> shauno: it's only email!
[15:58] <shauno> it's not tho.  email becomes your defacto identify for everything
[16:01] <shauno> and google have practically zero customer service.  that's just a disaster waiting to happen.
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> shauno: Do I _have_ to go Tyler Durden? :)
[16:02] <MartijnVdS> shauno: You are NOT your email account :)
[16:02] <shauno> tell that to every lost password form on the planet
[16:17] <dwatkins> Why not have a secondary account on a separate system?
[16:31] <popey> http://flightofthevulcan.weebly.com/
[16:33] <shauno> he was born 3 years after his parent(s) were lost?
[16:33] <MartijnVdS> ...
[16:34] <MartijnVdS> shauno: sounds like the WC alright
[16:34] <davmor2> popey: OMG! how will we every survive the comedy
[16:35] <shauno> reminds me of a biography I once read, of spike milligan.  it started with "his mother wanted a girl, his father, a boy - so they were both disappointed".  and went downhill from there
[16:38] <bigcalm> popey: wonderful :)
[17:01] <jutnux> Evening gents / ladies.
[17:27] <manly_les> hello all
[17:27] <manly_les> anybody here know much about gnome 3?
[17:29] <gordonjcp> manly_les: yes, it's horrible
[17:32] <riaz23> Hi, Greetings to all
[17:32] <ianto> Hello there riaz23
[17:35]  * penguin42 hmm I should read upon parental controls; I need to lock a machine down before I give it to my mum
[17:36] <riaz23> I have installed ubuntu 11.10 and now when I start the system I can't get GUI / Login screen, but the terminal is appeared and I have to login in terminal and start the GUI through command, so can anyone kindly tell what is the way to resolve this and get the Login screen direct.
[17:41] <riaz23> Hi ianto can you please tell the reason and solution of my problem
[17:42] <monsterwizard> I never got the linux talk from my parents when I was younger
[17:42] <monsterwizard> http://xkcd.com/456/
[17:46] <Darael> riaz23: What command art thou using to start the GUI?
[17:46] <Darael> riaz23: Art thou starting GDM?  LightDM?  Using startx?
[17:49] <riaz23> yes Darael
[17:49] <Darael> Which one, riaz23?
[17:50] <riaz23> startx and also with sudo /etc/init.d/gdm start
[17:51] <penguin42> riaz23: Fresh install or is it an upgrade?
[17:52] <riaz23> upgrade penguin42
[17:52] <Darael> Sounds to me like lightdm, which is the new default, isn't starting.
[17:52] <Darael> Might want to try removing gdm and reinstalling lightdm.
[17:53] <riaz23> how Darael?
[17:54] <Darael> Well, a "sudo apt-get --reinstall install lightdm" ought to take care of the latter.
[17:54] <Darael> If it sorts the problem, then removing GDM is entirely optional.
[17:55] <riaz23> ok trying
[17:55] <penguin42> riaz23: I'd start by making sure you've got all the updates; if that doesn't fix it, I'd make sure you install lightdm and ubuntu-greeter (using synaptic package manager or apt-get)
[17:59] <riaz23> dear penguin42 I have installed all the updates becauise after login when I searched for updates (in synaptic package manager) I saw no new updates
[18:00] <penguin42> riaz23: When did you do that? Just now?
[18:01] <riaz23> no no some time before (after the installation)
[18:01] <penguin42> riaz23: Please do it again now, there were some updates in the last few days
[18:02] <riaz23> now I used "sudo apt-get --reinstall install lightdm" but the same problem occurs
[18:02] <penguin42> ah actually, the updates I'm thinking of are still in rpoposed so you prboably won't get them
[18:03] <riaz23> penguin42: then what to do ?
[18:04] <penguin42> riaz23: can you make sure you have the ubuntu-greeter package installed?
[18:04] <riaz23> how to check that?
[18:04] <penguin42> use synaptic
[18:05] <riaz23> ok then
[18:06] <riaz23> how to check in synaptic?
[18:07] <penguin42> search for the package and it'll show you and tell you fi it's installed
[18:07] <riaz23> ok
[18:08] <riaz23> it shows not installed
[18:09] <riaz23> penguin42: should I install that?
[18:09] <penguin42> yes
[18:09] <riaz23> ok
[18:10] <riaz23> penguin42: it's installed now?
[18:11] <penguin42> is it? I can't see your computer
[18:11] <riaz23> how can see you?
[18:12] <riaz23> oh soor! penguin42: I meant that it's installed then now what to do?
[18:13] <penguin42> riaz23: Reboot - and see if it starts
[18:13] <riaz23> ok penguin42:
[18:15] <riaz23> yes dear penguin42: it works now. Thank you very very much
[18:15] <penguin42> good
[18:16] <riaz23> one thing more, how can I free the disk space?
[18:19] <penguin42> run computer janitor and let it clean up
[19:15]  * MartijnVdS has his Galaxy Nexus
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> it's shin
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> y
[19:17] <penguin42> rooted it yet?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> no
[19:17] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nice :o didn't know that was out yet
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Apparently I'm the only geek who doesn't root his phone 8-)
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: got it from clove(.co.uk)
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> as it'll only come out next week in .nl
[19:18] <Azelphur> pricey :p
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Normal price for a smart phone
[19:18] <Azelphur> idd
[19:18]  * penguin42 has a low end one - was about £70
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, I have a sim-only contract, so I don't pay a monthly "we subsidised your phone" fee
[19:18] <Azelphur> I was going to buy it back when the rumors where that it had a full keyboard
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> and I don't get Vodafone's crapware pre-installed
[19:18] <Azelphur> then I was sadface :(
[19:19] <Azelphur> yea, I do that too
[19:19] <Azelphur> I got my HTC Desire Z for £315 and I still think it's the best available qwerty android phone? XD
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> they still make phones with keyboards?
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> The speech recogniser even understands my accent of English :)
[19:21] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea I prefer them, you can type far faster and I play games on my phone :P
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> I have my games on my tablet
[19:22] <Azelphur> hehe
[19:24] <MartijnVdS> \o/ wordfeud
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> (in case anyone wants to play, my username is "mstreek")
[19:55] <Pr0ph3t> hi all
[19:57] <Pr0ph3t> can you advice me on a safe method to forward x11 to my Android phone? I connect through irssi bot now, no tunneling and only in local WLAN. I'll use a vpn or tunneling or both in the future
[19:58] <Pr0ph3t> to connect from remote that is
[19:58] <penguin42> have you got an X server for the phone?
[20:01] <Pr0ph3t> then I can't ok, I can use VNC though, but that isn't quite as safe as ssh right?
[20:01] <penguin42> Pr0ph3t: Forward the vnc connection through ssh
[20:02] <Pr0ph3t> that way I would be able to use VNC through ssh in a relatively safe environment
[20:02] <penguin42> nod
[20:02] <Pr0ph3t> thanks
[20:03] <penguin42> it's port 5900 for vnc :0
[20:04] <Pr0ph3t> or 5901 :P
[20:04] <penguin42> for vnc :1
[20:04] <dwatkins> 5900+display number
[20:04] <Pr0ph3t> that's one of the few things I know
[20:06] <Azelphur> I can't use VNC :(
[20:06] <Pr0ph3t> pardon, is that the same as saying tunneling VNC through ssh?
[20:06] <Azelphur> They tend to scream "OH MY GOD WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME" since I'm running at 7680x1200 xD
[20:08] <Pr0ph3t> I'm trying to find a howto online
[20:08] <penguin42> Azelphur: How many monitors across?
[20:08] <Azelphur> 4
[20:09] <penguin42> Azelphur: Nice, that would be a bit tragic on a phone
[20:09] <Azelphur> it's a bit tragic on pretty much anything
[20:10] <Azelphur> apart from my XPS M1730 doesn't do that bad, it can do a quarter of it!
[20:10] <Azelphur> <insert rant about how modern laptops seem to have gone backwards in terms of resolution>
[20:10] <penguin42> nod
[20:17] <ali1234> laptops are only limited by how much you are willing to carry
[20:17] <penguin42> ali1234: The resolution (as in pitch rather than size) isn't that great sometimes
[20:17] <ali1234> if you don't mind that it weighs 4kg, there are plenty of high res laptops available
[20:18] <Azelphur> ali1234: lies
[20:18] <Azelphur> I havn't seen any modern laptops that do 1920x1200
[20:19] <ali1234> you aren't looking hard enough
[20:19] <Azelphur> also, my M1730 ways 6.44
[20:19] <Azelphur> before you add a second hdd
[20:19] <ali1234> 1920x1200 isn't a common resolution
[20:19] <Azelphur> every monitor I own is 1920x1200 xD
[20:19] <ali1234> 1920x1080 are extremely common
[20:20] <Azelphur> see, backwardsness :(
[20:20] <penguin42> 1920x1200 used to be common until 1920x1080 came along cheap
[20:20] <Azelphur> I think I'm some form of superhuman or something, I'm quite happy with 7pt at 1920x1200 26"
[20:20] <MartijnVdS> http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/11/forget-shopping-friday-is-update-your-parents-browser-day/248933/
[20:20] <ali1234> http://www.selbuyproduct.com/index.php/hp-pavilion-hdx18t-18-4-inch-16-9-laptop-intel-core-2-duo-t9400-at-2-53ghz-4-gb-ram-500-gb-hard-drive-wuxga-ultra-brightview-1920x1200-1080p-blu-ray-rom-fingerprint-reader-vista-ultimate.html?___store=default
[20:21] <ali1234> 1920x1200, weight 4kg
[20:21] <Azelphur> £620 for a core 2 duo haha
[20:21] <Azelphur> that's pretty much the same specs as my M1730
[20:21] <ali1234> you are paying for the huge screen
[20:22] <Azelphur> My M1730 cost £500 with the huge screen (17" 1920x1200) quad core 2.4ghz, nvidia 8700M GT
[20:22] <Azelphur> (2 years ago)
[20:22] <penguin42> Azelphur: I have a 1920x1200 15.4" laptop for work
[20:22] <Azelphur> nice
[20:23] <ali1234> the bottom line is nobody wants an 18" laptop
[20:23] <Azelphur> *waves*
[20:23] <Azelphur> I EXIST
[20:24] <ali1234> and if the screen is any smaller you can't read it anyway
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: well, there's this tile missing in my back yard...
[20:24] <ali1234> WHO SAID THAT?
[20:24] <Azelphur> lol
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: an 18" laptop would fill that hole perfectly
[20:24] <shauno> I wouldn't mind 18", but it'd have to come with wheels.  and fold out legs so I could scoot a chair under it
[20:24] <penguin42> Azelphur: Ot#s 2.8kg apparently
[20:24] <Azelphur> penguin42: yours? or mine
[20:24] <penguin42> Azelphur: Mine
[20:24] <Azelphur> hehe
[20:26] <ali1234> 17" macbook pro has 1920x1200
[20:26] <ali1234> starts at $2500
[20:26] <Azelphur> only $2.5k :D
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> that's like a million bitcoins right?
[20:26] <ali1234> no, actually it's about 1000
[20:26] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: probably about 1.8k
[20:26] <MartijnVdS> didn't bitcoins lose 90% of their worth a few weeks ago?
[20:26] <ali1234> yes
[20:27] <Azelphur> ali1234: is closer, 1120 :D
[20:27] <ali1234> they are still worth over $2
[20:27] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yep but they are still worth more than the dollar / pound
[20:27] <ali1234> also it was more than 90%
[20:27] <hamitron> sadly they are devaluing faster than both atm too :/
[20:28] <Azelphur> seems to be holding from what I've seen
[20:28] <hamitron> well, I was comparing the last month
[20:28] <hamitron> :)
[20:29] <hamitron> not really any good holding, then crashing every so often when someone sells a load
[20:29] <hamitron> :/
[20:30] <hamitron> end result is down :(
[20:30] <ali1234> well 2 weeks ago someone sold nearly 10% of all bitcoin on gox, price only dropped by about 30%
[20:30] <ali1234> 500000 sold, out of 7 million total in existence
[20:31] <hamitron> "only"
[20:31] <hamitron> ;)
[20:31] <ali1234> price dropped from $3 to $2.2
[20:31] <ali1234> that was a good day to buy
[20:31] <hamitron> there appears to be less money in the markets for buy orders atm
[20:32] <ali1234> well yeah, everyone bought at $2.2
[20:32] <ali1234> you won't see any new money in the markets until the new year at the earliest
[20:32] <hamitron> if the dude who sold 500000 bitcoins is here.... I'm a good friend btw
[20:33] <hamitron> ;/
[20:33] <ali1234> was probably rick falkvinge
[20:34] <ali1234> or coinhunter
[20:38] <penguin42> or whoever nabbed them in one of the worms a while ago?
[20:45] <ali1234> no, a thief wouldn't dump them all at once
[20:50] <penguin42> he would - so he can run away with his money
[20:50] <Pernig> if there was one thing they could dump all at once, it would be that
[20:50] <Pernig> could it even be defined as something that's been stolen by law?
[21:06] <zleap> i am trying to use start up disc creator to put an iso on to a usb stick,  does it on;ly work with ubuntu iso files
[21:08] <ali1234> yes
[21:08] <zleap> ok
[21:09] <zleap> so how do i do the same thing with a different iso
[21:09] <zleap> say for a very small linux distro
[21:09] <ali1234> unetbootin
[21:09] <zleap> ok
[21:12] <zleap> thanks
[21:33] <zleap> hmm
[21:37] <zleap> from grub how can i boot the system so i can reset the root or login passwords
[21:38] <zleap> not booted this laptop in over a year so not sure what login details are
[21:39] <popey> Evening all.
[21:39] <jutnux> Hello popey!
[21:39] <jacobw> append 'single init=/bin/bash'
[21:39] <jacobw> @zleap
[21:39] <popey> zleap: press shift or escape after bios and choose recovery mode
[21:40] <zleap> ok
[21:40]  * jacobw forgets ubuntu is helpful
[21:40] <zleap> i have normal boot and single user mode in the grub menu
[21:41] <jacobw> you'll want single user mode
[21:41] <zleap> ok do i need to edit the line
[21:41] <jacobw> singe init=/bin/bash
[21:41] <jacobw> s/singe/single
[21:41] <popey> no
[21:41] <popey> you dont need to do that
[21:42] <popey> just choose recovery mode
[21:42] <popey> or single user, or whatever its called, it doesnt need editing
[21:42] <zleap> ok
[21:42] <jutnux> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2011/11/citrus-a-libreoffice-interface-for-today/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG%21+Ubuntu%21%29&utm_content=Google+Reader
[21:43] <zleap> ok it says give root password or type ctil-d to continue
[21:44] <jacobw> i hate 'office' applications
[21:44] <jacobw> why isn't html a document format? it does everything
[21:47] <jacobw> obvious, html *is* a document format
[21:47] <jutnux> jacobw: Because there a no desktop applications for HTML that are actually good.
[21:48] <jacobw> there should be :(
[21:49] <zleap> ok i am at a root promot
[21:49] <zleap> prompt
[21:53] <jacobw> root shell?
[21:53] <jacobw> 'passwd'
[21:53] <zleap> i got it
[21:53] <zleap> i can now log in thanks
[21:57] <zleap> i need to check this usb  flash drive is bootable
[22:01] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Daviey Walker] Has it really really been 20 years since Freddie Mercury died? - https://plus.google.com/103377990277719942817/posts/1dpncLMNYaX
[22:26] <AlanBell> Daviey subbed his G+ stream to the planet??
[22:27]  * AlanBell is listening to Queen right now as it happens
[22:28] <popey> he has made g+ his blogging platform, yes
[22:28] <popey> neat thing to do
[22:28] <AlanBell> good stuff
[22:56] <Daviey> AlanBell: yeah.. is that ok? ;)
[23:02] <AlanBell> innovative ;)
[23:02] <AlanBell> I like it
[23:16] <ubuntubhoy> nothing like a good netsplit
[23:16] <Daviey> AlanBell: driven by laziness :)
[23:20] <AlanBell> Daviey: well there are two types of lazyness, like maths. Pure and applied.
[23:20] <AlanBell> This would be applied lazyness
[23:26]  * penguin42 wonders how much effort applied lazyness takes, I mean it would be easier not to apply it?
[23:27] <AlanBell> http://xkcd.com/974/
[23:28] <Daviey> hah
[23:28] <AlanBell> I have in the past written data import routines, then found out it would have taken half the time to re-key the data
[23:28] <Daviey> yes, but which did you enjoy more?
[23:29] <AlanBell> the data import routine, every time
[23:29] <Daviey> Both can be re-used, but one of them will be more efficient the second time. :)
[23:30] <shauno> a lot of the time, I'll go nuts trying to automate something that'll never be used again.  just because doing it by hand tends to leave me in a mindless, trancelike state.  which may or may not involve drooling.
[23:32] <Daviey> too often, i write little scripts to achieve tasks - but then don't save them, so have to re-write them when i need them again. :)
[23:33] <monsterwizard> how do I access the .login script?
[23:33]  * Daviey notes working from /tmp is an extreme sport, i didn't get the name Dangerous Daviey for nothin'.
[23:34] <AlanBell> monsterwizard: what do you mean?
[23:34] <monsterwizard> and .cshwrc
[23:34] <monsterwizard> Well I want to view the script
[23:35] <AlanBell> nano .login
[23:35] <monsterwizard> i.e look at the code
[23:35] <AlanBell> where do you think a script called .login should exist?
[23:36] <AlanBell> and why do you think you would have a .cshwrc?
[23:36] <monsterwizard> somewhere in the root folder I guess
[23:36] <monsterwizard> looking for it now
[23:36] <AlanBell> err, no
[23:36] <monsterwizard> oops .cshrc
[23:36] <AlanBell> you are reading this from a book about unix
[23:36] <monsterwizard> yep
[23:37] <AlanBell> :)
[23:37] <monsterwizard> hmmmm
[23:37] <AlanBell> ok, use unix, to go with that book, or use a book about ubuntu to go with what is in front of you
[23:37] <AlanBell> C shell is not bash
[23:38] <AlanBell> you can do less ~/.bashrc if you want
[23:38] <monsterwizard> ah interesting
[23:39] <monsterwizard> I want to learn linux
[23:39] <monsterwizard> I mean
[23:39] <monsterwizard> not ubuntu if that makes sense
[23:39] <monsterwizard> I want to learn different commands, important scripts etc
[23:39] <AlanBell> Ubuntu is like most other modern linux distributions
[23:40] <AlanBell> but it is not the same as BSD Unix
[23:40] <AlanBell> !fsh
[23:40] <AlanBell> !fhs
[23:40] <lubotu3`> An explanation of how files and directories are organized on Ubuntu, and how they can be manipulated, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LinuxFilesystemTreeOverview  see also: man hier
[23:41] <AlanBell> reasonable starting point
[23:41] <AlanBell> !bash
[23:41] <lubotu3`> The linux terminal or command-line interface is very powerful. Open a terminal via Applications -> Accessories -> Terminal (Gnome), K-menu -> System -> Konsole (KDE), or Menu -> Accessories -> LXTerminal (LXDE). Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal
[23:41] <monsterwizard> 0u sweet
[23:42] <monsterwizard> text books are horribly outdated
[23:43] <penguin42> they're good for reading in those few places where you don't want to get on line
[23:49] <ali1234> !rpm
[23:49] <lubotu3`> RPM is the RedHat Package Management system. Ubuntu uses !APT, not RPM. RPM packages are not supported (the package "alien" can allow installing them, but it's quite dangerous and unsupported)
[23:50] <ali1234> learn how to use rpm if you want a fun time
[23:50] <Darael> Bah, for a /really/ 'fun' time do LFS.
[23:50] <ali1234> LFS? OBS!
[23:50]  * hamitron finds MS Windows more "fun"
[23:50] <hamitron> ;)
[23:51] <Darael> ali1234: I'm not familiar with OBS - EXPN please?
[23:51] <ali1234> try bootstrapping OBS. it makes LFS seem trivial
[23:51] <ali1234> OBS is a build system
[23:51] <Darael> Ah.
[23:51] <ali1234> it can build an entire distro
[23:51] <ali1234> it can use debs, or rpms
[23:52] <ali1234> it can build debian, ubuntu, fedora, or opensuse
[23:52] <ali1234> it is ridiculously hard to set up
[23:52] <ali1234> about 6 people actually understand it
[23:52] <ali1234> it functions kind of like a git repository in that you check out packages, modify them, and it keeps the changes
[23:52] <ali1234> however, you can't just "clone" it
[23:53] <ali1234> so you depend on someone else's server to do anything, unless you set up your own
[23:53] <ali1234> which is when the fun starts
[23:53] <ali1234> quite a powerful system, as long as you don't have to maintain the server side, which breaks constantly
[23:53] <penguin42> OBS is the OpenSUSE one?
[23:54] <ali1234> yes
[23:55] <ali1234> still it's probably easier than setting up your own launchpad or CDBS
[23:56] <scoundrel50a> I have a Lenovo laptop, running 11.10 and I was looking in the settings and noticed that in System Settings>System Info>Graphics it set to Experience>Standard....I know this graphics card can cope with more than standard, which was set when it was in beta....how can I change that.......
[23:58] <ali1234> standard is... standard?
[23:58] <ali1234> mine says standard too, i have everything enabled that you can enable
[23:59] <scoundrel50a> oh ok, thanks.....I just thought that there would be more than just Standard


[05:21] <innosam> Hi, i was looking to build cloud-init from source as debian packages. Anybody have idea on, how to do that?
[06:21] <innosam> Hello
[18:59] <alexpilotti> smoser harlowja: just got the plane tickets for Malta
[18:59] <harlowja> malta, i don't think i be at that one :-P
[18:59] <alexpilotti> smoser: cpopa will be there as well
[19:00] <harlowja> unless smoser  pays for me to go, lol
[19:00] <alexpilotti> aka next week :-)
[19:00] <harlowja> cool
[19:00] <harlowja> sounds nice
[19:01] <alexpilotti> harlowja: I’ll feed him some beers and try to convince him to buy your ticket :-)
[19:01] <harlowja> ha
[19:01] <harlowja> thx
[19:01] <alexpilotti> so what about we do some hangouts?
[19:01] <alexpilotti> I mean next week?
[19:01] <smoser> alexpilotti, hey. awesome. i was just thkning 'why didn't allesandro respond to me'
[19:02] <alexpilotti> smoser: we like to live dangerously and we handle event logistics at the last possible moment :-D
[19:04] <alexpilotti> smoser: whene did you write me? I might have missed it!
[19:06] <devicenull> I dont suppose anyone here knows how to convince dpkg to actually reconfigure things in ubuntu?
[19:06] <devicenull> it seem that whenever I run 'dpkg-reconfigured -f noninteractive cloud-init', it just updates the debconf database with whatever I have in 90_dpkg.conf
[19:20] <smoser> devicenull, what did you want it to do ?
[19:20] <devicenull> https://gist.githubusercontent.com/devicenull/40c80e71bf8ce21bff1f/raw/3e443af8e83848c4a9bc8990c764cf257b79255f/gistfile1.txt
[19:21] <devicenull> well, that's what it does.. I wanted it to set the metadata config to Ec2, None
[19:21] <devicenull> I just resorted to overwriting 90_dpkg, which actually works
[19:22] <smoser> devicenull, i think thats as intended.
[19:22] <smoser> ie, debconf-is-not-a-registry
[19:22] <smoser> you can seed package installation
[19:22] <smoser> but after that, i think its supposed to behave like it is
[19:22] <devicenull> well, I'm not sure what the point of the 'noninteractive' frotnend is then
[19:23] <devicenull> I dont use ubuntu much, so I could be doing something wrong here
[19:26] <smoser> devicenull, i'm sorry, this has always been confusing for me too.
[19:26] <smoser> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=709773
[19:29] <devicenull> ahh, so debconf values are generated based on what's actually configured on the machine
[19:29] <devicenull> rather then debconf being the source of truth, and updating files based on what debconf says
[19:41] <harmw> god I hate openstack
[19:41] <harmw> should a vxlan deploymnt contain any vxlan specific iptable rules?
[20:27] <smoser> devicenull, that is my understanding, yes.
[20:28] <smoser> on first install, cloud-init wil read preseed values
[20:28] <smoser> but after that, debconf-is-not-a-database. (but it is still confusing to me)


[11:01] <ev> so given that I'm now in possession of Scott's three netbooks and I have one netbook that fails to wake from suspend, I'm more keen on finding a way to test Wubi.


[09:22] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:23] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> spent yesterday reinstalling xubuntu on laptop that went wonky
[09:30] <zleap> how did that go
[09:58] <SuperMatt> morning all
[09:58] <SuperMatt> The weekend should have been longer
[09:58] <SuperMatt> I blame Canada
[10:02] <zmoylan-pi> mostly done, but now at the 90 90 part, the last 10% of thetask taking the other 90% of the time... :-)
[10:56] <diplo> exit
[10:56] <diplo> Ooops :D
[15:02] <popey> foobarry: are you a backer of retro man cave? May have just seen your name scroll by
[16:24] <SuperMatt> The new community theme is aces
[16:50] <diddledan> so I think I just slept 24 hourws
[16:51] <diddledan> damn flexiondotorg and popey screwing my body clock :-p
[16:51] <diddledan> love you guys! <3
[16:57] <daftykins> :D
[20:32] <popey> diddledan: yay!
[20:32] <popey> I managed to stay awake all day but I am flagging a bit now!
[20:32] <diddledan> :-)
[20:33] <popey> Early night and I'll be reset by tomorrow ... maybe
[20:33] <diddledan> haha, don't believe it :-p
[20:33] <daftykins> prepare the coffee :D
[20:34] <diddledan> anyone want a dollar bill? I got a few in my wallett :-p
[20:34] <diddledan> I really need real money, but no, I have stupid cabbage-money
[20:35]  * daftykins raises an eyebrow whilst glancing at the Guernsey £1 note
[20:40] <zmoylan-pi> accepted anywhere locals burn strangers in giant wickermen... :-P
[20:40]  * daftykins whistles
[20:41] <daftykins> and sometimes, not even there!
[20:54] <diddledan> in some of those places they use it as a reason to burn people on giant wickermen
[22:40] <dave_> #amiga
[22:41] <daftykins> "/join #amiga"
[22:41] <dave_> yep just realised that one, sorry!
[22:41] <zmoylan-pi> i'm sure there are a few ex amiga users here :-P


[12:27] <airurando> http://uds.ubuntu.com/about/ so needs to be updated
[12:28] <airurando> more how to participate info needed and the history section needs to include the vUDSs
[16:24] <mokmeister> Well, just installed 13.10 on a laptop, seems a flyer. Fairly stable as well for an Alpha! No crashes yet.
[16:49] <airurando> go mokmeister
[16:49] <airurando> New blogpost: http://airurando.wordpress.com/2013/07/27/too-much-power-is-a-dangerous-thing-particularly-in-my-hands/
[17:36] <mokmeister> hehehe, never pays to skim! :d


[08:13] <xnox> Slide deck of U1 in the installer as implemented for landing for release after raring (13.10): https://plus.google.com/photos/105922848292507689403/albums/5867349973727737569
[08:13] <xnox> ralsina was pinged about it, not sure who wanted to re-review it ^
[16:49] <mpt> Just posted initial design for accessing SIM services: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhoneApp#Settings