[15:58] <tomiro> I'm not sure where to take this, but marketing seemed at least somewhat appropriate.
[15:59] <tomiro> Since Shipit is closed, I was wondering about the feasibility of picking up the ball and offering free discs through our (On-Disk.com) Quick Ship program?
[16:00] <tomiro> We have already sent thousands of free discs for Xubuntu, so this could be seen as just a natural progression.


[15:12] <ali1234> VJ-ing? is that a real thing?
[15:13] <hellocatfood> ali1234: yeah. It goes under many names but it's essentially doing video visuals at concerts
[15:13] <ali1234> yeah i have seen it
[15:13] <ali1234> i always figured they just loaded some video clips into the software and hit "go"
[15:14] <hellocatfood> Nah
[15:14] <hellocatfood> Depends what thing you're going to see
[15:14] <hellocatfood> It can be either
[15:15] <hellocatfood> Can be compared to lisetning to a CD or going to a concert
[15:15] <hellocatfood> there's just something different about seeing it done live
[15:15] <hellocatfood> but anyways, that's a topic for a PhD thesis ;-)
[15:15] <hellocatfood> right, time to restart and see if it worked
[15:16] <popey> at uds one of the Ubuntu studio guys had a VJ app he'd written
[15:16] <popey> it was pre-loaded with all his videos, and had a button he could tap to get it in sync with the beat of the music
[15:17] <popey> was quite neat
[15:17] <czajkowski> popey: aye luisbg has that
[15:17] <czajkowski> rather funky
[15:17] <popey> it was him
[15:17] <popey> he wrote it
[15:17] <mungojerry> is it my poor memory or did ubuntu used to have less kernel updates requiring a reboot?
[15:17] <czajkowski> nods
[15:18] <czajkowski> he works for Collabora now
[15:18] <ali1234> i once saw luke vibert, it was literally just him sitting on stage behind a laptop, pressing two keys to trigger two samples over and over
[15:19] <BigRedS> mungojerry: it used to be a lot less insistent
[15:20] <mungojerry> BigRedS: maybe certain kernel updates only came if you enabled backports or something?
[15:20] <BigRedS> mmm, perhaps. I wonder if it used to just install kernels as any other package
[15:20] <mungojerry> i've run ubuntu since 2005 and i never remeber having such low uptimes
[15:20] <BigRedS> and only now it feels the need to go "you have a new kernel and WILL boot into it"
[15:21] <screen-x> mungojerry: you dont have to reboot just because a new kernel has been installed..
[15:21] <mungojerry> screen-x: i don't HAVE to...but i remember less kernel updates
[15:22] <mungojerry> also, regarding yesterday's convo about close or quit...my banshee is using virt 874m res 477m...and i'm not even playing any music
[15:22] <ali1234> ubuntu used to have a less annoying way of notifying you about updates that probably resulted in less reboot requests
[15:22] <ali1234> update frequency was about the same though
[15:23]  * bigcalm can't contain himself and mutters 'fewer' before going to make a cuppa tea
[15:23] <mungojerry> less frequent :P
[15:23] <mungojerry> is that allowed?
[15:23] <bigcalm> Indeed
[15:23] <bigcalm> 'frequent' is singular
[15:23]  * popey cuddles bigcalm
[15:24] <mungojerry> lol
[15:24] <bigcalm> Less frequent, fewer frequents ;)
[15:24] <ali1234> "less reboot requests" is wrong
[15:24] <ali1234> but i don't care
[15:25] <mungojerry> i think my swappiness is wrong
[15:25] <shauno> it only goes back to jan09, but ksplice's chart was interesting; http://www.desktoplinux.com/files/misc/ksplice_uptrack_reboots.jpg
[15:25] <mungojerry> http://i.imgur.com/aEjkQ.jpg
[15:26] <mungojerry> shauno: i only do security updates on RHEL and i'm sure there's not that many
[15:27] <screen-x> Lyx seems to be behaving differently when started from terminal, to when started from menu. http://i.imgur.com/DZvgl.png
[15:28] <screen-x> Was going to strace, to see what it was failing to read/write, but I couldn't reproduce the problem.
[15:30] <mungojerry> screen-x: what command is the  menu launcher running
[15:31] <screen-x> mungojerry: lyx %F
[15:31] <mungojerry> hmm dunno
[15:32] <mungojerry> i'm amazed at how leaky programs get after a few weeks
[15:32] <mungojerry> hotot: 600mb resident , docky, 300mb resident...
[15:45] <tugrik> if I've got a partition listed as mounted, but the physical media isn't there any more, if there any way to force it to unmount that's more effective than "umount -f"?
[15:46] <DJones> tugrik: Wouldn't happen to be a USB stick would it?
[15:46] <tugrik> it was, yes
[15:46] <DJones> I've got a similar thing, desktop icon for a usb stick thats been safely removed, but the icon is still sat on the desktop
[15:47] <mungojerry> lsof shows nothing?
[15:47] <tugrik> i've got two entries in the output of "mount", it seems rather lame to have to reboot to remove them
[15:47] <DJones> I narrowed it down to a corruptly formatted stick, but the only solution I found was a reboot
[15:47] <screen-x> tugrik: what happens if you ls the mountpoint?
[15:47] <tugrik> yeah, nothing in lsof output
[15:48] <tugrik> there's nothing there
[15:48] <mungojerry> is it present in mtab?
[15:48] <tugrik> yes
[15:48] <screen-x> tugrik: then you could edit mtab manually (at your own risk, not recommended, etc)
[15:49] <mungojerry> or maybe trace umount to find out what it's doing
[15:49] <tugrik> can I just manually edit /etc/mtab?  or am I asking for trouble? ;)
[15:49] <tugrik> ah
[15:49] <tugrik> what screen-x said :)
[15:49] <ZoeR> Hello all!
[15:50] <daubers> tugrik: -l will do a lazy unmount and is sometimes a bit effective than l
[15:50] <daubers> f sorry
[15:51] <daubers> umount -l /path/to/broken/mount
[15:52] <tugrik> ah
[15:52] <bigcalm> Can you have a CNAME entry in one domain record that points to another domain?
[15:52] <tugrik> *blush*
[15:53] <tugrik> I may have been a little over-enthusiastic in marking files immutable, the problem has now "gone away"
[15:53] <imexil> popey, not sure if this was already pointed out to you but in the new (great) episode it was mentioned that browser tabs were "invented" by Firefox but iirc Opera was there first ;)
[15:54] <ali1234> lol
[15:54] <BigRedS> bigcalm: yeah
[15:54] <BigRedS> it's where they're mostly used IME
[15:54] <danfish> bigcalm: pretty sure you can yes - my dyndns point to anbother domain
[15:54] <tugrik> and mungojerry, cheers, strace was a help
[15:56] <bigcalm> Thanks guys. I thought you could. Looks like everydns is just being slow then
[15:56] <popey> imexil: :) it has, numerous times :)
[15:57] <bigcalm> Just seen the ice-cream van trundle past in the pouring rain. Good luck to him I say
[15:57] <imexil> I thought so :-D Propably from all Norwegian based/loving listeners in an huge outrage :-D
[15:57] <ali1234> opera wasn't first
[15:57] <ali1234> and neither was firefox
[15:58] <imexil> so who was ali1234?
[15:58] <ali1234> ibrowse on amiga
[15:58] <ali1234> but the fact is that firefox was the first that more than about 10 people actually used
[15:59] <imexil> oi!
[16:01] <ali1234> the only innovative thing firefox has ever done is chuck out all the bloat
[16:01] <ali1234> but they seem hell-bent on adding it all back in now
[16:01] <popey> never seen the attraction with opera
[16:02] <ali1234> it has mouse gestures!
[16:02] <imexil> It used to be way faster than Mozilla
[16:02] <ali1234> how can you not like mouse gestures!
[16:02] <BigRedS> imexil: ISTR it first appeared as an add-on for IE
[16:02] <popey> :)
[16:02]  * popey gestures to ali1234
[16:03] <imexil> Well point was really unfortunately it wasn't a product of OpenSource :(
[16:03] <Baikonur> i used opera for a while, back when i learned there are other browsers than IE :)
[16:03] <imexil> yet again
[16:03] <ali1234> what ever has been?
[16:03] <imexil> Well that was the discussion all about and it is really hard to find something.
[16:03] <ali1234> i mean, except for everything made by computing industry prior to about 1983
[16:04] <imexil> One thing that I could name now is BitCoin
[16:04] <imexil> Haven't seen something like that in the propriety world of sw
[16:04] <Baikonur> that might count if some one actually starts to use it
[16:04] <ali1234> yeah, bitcoin is too crazy
[16:05] <ali1234> maybe tabbed browsing wasn't open source... but the www itself was
[16:05] <ali1234> and what about... bittorrent?
[16:06] <Baikonur> i have bitcoin running, and i have 5 bitpence there, but i don't even know what it's used for
[16:06] <alexcockell> #hamradio
[16:06] <ali1234> it's not used for anything
[16:06] <bigcalm> How does one clear DNS cache in linux?
[16:06] <alexcockell> Not sure.
[16:07] <screen-x> bigcalm: there isnt a dns cache, unless you have installed one
[16:07] <ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Drupal Q&A site at stackexchange.com - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/drupal-qa-site-stackexchangecom
[16:07] <bigcalm> Humf
[16:07]  * bigcalm pokes the router then
[16:07] <screen-x> bigcalm: are you using nscd or dnsmasq?
[16:08] <bigcalm> screen-x: I have no idea what either of those are :)
[16:08] <screen-x> bigcalm: probably not using them then ;-)
[16:08] <bigcalm> screen-x: just what I'm thinking too
[16:10] <screen-x> bigcalm: you can use a service like http://www.whatsmydns.net/ to check the dns responses recieved by servers in various countries
[16:10] <bigcalm> Coo. Thanks for that
[16:13] <mungojerry> tugrik: cool. no probs
[16:13] <popey> there's an app for benchmarking dns too
[16:13] <popey> on google code
[16:14] <popey> http://code.google.com/p/namebench/
[16:14]  * daubers makes an app to destroy the word "app"
[16:15] <jpds> danfish: http://dilbert.com/fast/2011-03-03/
[16:16] <bigcalm> LOL
[16:17] <imexil> bigcalm: There is also a very sophisticated program from Steve Gibbson (runs on Wine!) http://www.grc.com/dns/benchmark.htm
[16:17] <popey> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[16:18] <popey> etc
[16:18] <imexil> You don't like SG then, popey? ;)
[16:19] <popey> meh
[16:19] <popey> he's a guy making a living
[16:19] <popey> i just find him a little OTT
[16:19] <popey> (like most Americans)
[16:20] <bigcalm> It's great when CEO from $company confirms for DNS changes to be made and then 20 mins later a VP of $company phones me to ask why their site has gone away
[16:20]  * bigcalm sighs
[16:20] <popey> hehe
[16:21] <bigcalm> It's great that I get to deal with the top dogs of various companies, but it would be great if they could communicate within themselves
[16:21] <bigcalm> Everything is just great!
[16:21] <bigcalm> Time for a great big mug of tea
[16:22] <popey> \o/ tea
[16:26] <ging> what about a big mug of 3 minute microwave cake
[16:26] <gord> i would love a tea cake
[16:26] <ging> gord: did you just say that or was that a script that pics up on the word cake?
[16:26]  * bigcalm head-desks
[16:26]  * DJones gets a nice big mug of redbush
[16:27] <gord> i would love a tea cake
[16:27] <Azelphur> btw gord / brobostigon back in January I was talking about Anonymous and you made it sound like all they knew how to do was DDoS, I'm curious on what you think of the HBGary attack :P
[16:27] <Azelphur> if you've heard of it
[16:27] <bigcalm> I've changed /etc/hosts to point at the site's new IP address. But the server is now timing out. This isn't my afternoon
[16:27] <ging> gord: now you're just playing with me
[16:30] <gord> Azelphur, i have no thoughts about that
[16:30] <gord> just about tea-cakes
[16:30] <Azelphur> I see :P
[16:37] <hellocatfood> To ali1234 and directhex thanks for the help regarding connecting to external monitors, using the catalyst menu work (at least via hdmi on my tv)
[16:46] <gord> sigh, what happened to the sun...
[16:52] <mungojerry> march is the windy month though
[16:52] <mungojerry> hey the sun is almost out in london
[16:53] <popey> its out here
[16:53] <popey> shining on my screen!
[16:54] <gord> :(
[16:54] <mungojerry> popey: http://www.dilbert.com/fast
[16:54] <popey> heh
[16:55]  * mungojerry has spent the last hour reading FOI requests at http://www.whatdotheyknow.com
[16:55] <Laney> what DO they know?
[16:55] <Laney> not a lot?
[16:57] <mungojerry> i know a lot more now
[17:13]  * danfish has livers for his tea tonight
[17:14] <danfish> and red wine of course
[17:16]  * bigcalm slaps rackspace
[17:16] <bigcalm> You tell it to use one document root for both :80 and :443 but it doesn't listen
[17:16] <bigcalm> *sigh*
[17:17] <bigcalm> Do my eyes decieve me?
[17:17] <bigcalm> Plesk uses php3?
[17:18] <shauno> somehow I wouldn't find that surprising
[17:22] <bigcalm> A client's shell uses darkblue on black for directory names. How might I apply a better colour scheme?
[17:24] <shauno> a pointy stick?
[17:25] <bigcalm> :)
[17:26] <shauno> $LS_COLORS hurts my head, I'd just copy it across from a sane env
[17:26] <davmor2> bigcalm: that's easy gauge out their eyes and give them a Braille tablet
[17:26] <bigcalm> :|
[17:27] <bigcalm> This is for my benefit
[17:27] <bigcalm> Client doesn't ssh to their webhost
[17:28] <davmor2> bigcalm: Oh sorry thought it was a consumer request :)  can you not just change it locally using dev tools or fire bug?
[17:29] <bigcalm> firebug? that's a web browser plugin
[17:29] <bigcalm> I am very confused now :)
[17:33] <shauno> well, the short answer is just to edit the envar LS_COLORS to match your preference ;)
[17:36] <bigcalm> I managed to make do by putting my nose up to the monitor.
[17:36] <bigcalm> Don't need to ssh to that server too offten, so I can cope I guess
[17:38] <shauno> dircolors --print-database >~/.dircolors   then change the line reading 'DIR 01;34' to something more sensible.  it'll be parsed when you login, so it'll "stick"
[17:39] <shauno> (I use "DIR 01" so it's just bold but not coloured.  makes it whiter than a normal file on my term)
[17:42] <shauno> guess quicker fix would be 'unalias ls' so it's not running ls --color=auto.  maybe easier to remember for next time :)
[17:56] <bigcalm> How does one set up their linux box to share mp3s in a way that iTunes will see it without fuss?
[17:56] <bigcalm> (iTunes on another machine within the network)
[18:01] <AlanBell> toodles
[18:02] <bigcalm> Taaraa
[18:02] <popey> http://meta.askubuntu.com/questions/1089/community-promotion-ads-1h-2011/1099#1099
[18:02] <popey> vote vote vote UUPC up!
[18:02] <popey> (please)
[18:03] <ali1234> bigcalm: you need daap sharing i think
[18:03] <bigcalm> ali1234: just reading about that: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20030711140157143
[18:04] <ali1234> i think rhythmbox or banshee has a plugin, one of those. can't remember which, i only use spotify now
[18:05] <bigcalm> It's a headless server I'll be using
[18:06] <bigcalm> Vote Up requires 15 reputation
[18:06]  * bigcalm gives up and mentally likes it
[18:08] <popey> bah
[18:09] <shauno> voted .. pretend it's bigcalm by proxy :p
[18:09] <bigcalm> Most kind
[18:10] <popey> answer some questions :)
[18:10] <popey> unanswered ones to get good karma/points/whatever they are
[18:12] <bigcalm> You must have at least 5 reputation on Ask Ubuntu to answer a question
[18:12]  * bigcalm thinks this system does not favour new users
[18:12] <arsen> why is it popey is a name i see everywhere
[18:13] <arsen> aer you THE popey ?!
[18:13] <shauno> simple.  popey's everywhere.
[18:13] <arsen> \4:D
[18:16] <brobostigon> i reckon my dad is a politician at heart, he does everything to avoid answering questions, with proper answers.
[18:17] <bigcalm> Would you like a tea or coffee?
[18:17] <brobostigon> coffee, please.
[18:17] <bigcalm> Yes please
[18:17] <bigcalm> See, you wouldn't make for a politician
[18:17] <brobostigon> yes, lke that.
[18:18] <brobostigon> its damn annoying,
[18:19] <popey> hello arsen
[18:19] <arsen> :))
[18:19] <arsen> ive no idea where i know the name popey from, and the one i know was probably not you
[18:19] <AlanBell> !popey
[18:20] <arsen> oh its AlanBell !
[18:20] <arsen> i do remember AlanBell being a very helpful person in the past :p
[18:20] <popey> pffft
[18:20] <popey> ;)
[18:20] <AlanBell> really?
[18:20] <popey> lies
[18:20] <arsen> i think you helped me fix something.
[18:24] <gord> okay so i normally get annoyed with country selections, "is it uk, gb, england?" but this one takes the cake. it *was* uk, but they put united kingdom in the g's where great britain would be...
[18:31] <daubers> Evening
[18:40] <shauno> it irks me when they expect 'gb'.
[18:41] <shauno> was once told our cctld was meant to be .gb, but we beat ukraine to it and ruined it before it was properly standardized.  this makes no sense to me.  GB is an island, not a country.
[19:48] <safiyyah> hi all need help with printer
[19:49] <safiyyah> I have a brother MFC-J265, my HP broke down :( Anyway, I have installed the printer but getting nothing as far as the scanner. It is an all in one with fax... but I won't be using the fax
[19:49] <safiyyah> help anyone?
[19:59] <gr33npeace> safiyyah: do you hplib installed?
[19:59] <gr33npeace> safiyyah: what i normally do is to plug in the scanner, and then run hp-scan from the command line
[20:00] <gr33npeace> safiyyah: it's far from ideal... but it does the trick for the (very) small amount of scanning I do
[20:00] <safiyyah> gr33npeace,  i just came with a brother printer today
[20:00] <safiyyah> my hp died
[20:00] <gr33npeace> oops
[20:00] <safiyyah> so hplip isnt doing me any good
[20:01] <safiyyah> i have never had a brother
[20:01] <gr33npeace> sorry... didn't read properly!
[20:01] <safiyyah> so its cool and all.... but hp... the scanner just works... this one doesn't ... am on google now finding info
[20:01] <safiyyah> lol
[20:02] <gr33npeace> are you using Xsane?
[20:03] <gr33npeace> seems to be some information on here: http://welcome.solutions.brother.com/bsc/public_s/id/linux/en/faq_scn.html
[20:04] <safiyyah> thanx gr33npeace :) am on it now
[20:05] <gr33npeace> any time... good luck!
[20:06] <mungojerry1> popey: i'm next to you in the user league for askubuntu last quarter :)
[20:07] <mungojerry1> http://stackexchange.com/leagues/31/quarter/askubuntu/2011-01-01/1960#1960
[20:09] <mungojerry1> everyone's out tonight and mungojerry is in doing his backups
[20:15] <popey> didnt know there were league tables!
[20:15] <safiyyah> brb reboot
[20:17] <shauno> *gasp* the tables have a big red number next to popey?!  slacker!
[20:18] <DJones> shauno: File a bug
[20:18] <popey> heh
[20:20] <DJones> popey: I do wonderhow you find time to do any "paid" work with all the time you put into answering questions on the forums/askubuntu/irc/mailing list & others, are you sure you've not been cloned
[20:20] <mungojerry1> and does your employer not notice?
[20:23] <popey> hah
[20:23] <popey> I am self employed :)
[20:24] <mungojerry1> there seems to be a lot of confusion over where is best to ask questions and report bugs..quite a lot of askubuntu questions seem to be bug reports, and launchpad questions/wiki/irc/mailings also allow questions to be answered
[20:24] <mungojerry1> and ubuntu forums of course
[20:26] <popey> http://stackexchange.com/leagues/31/alltime/askubuntu/2010-07-28/612#612
[20:26] <popey> 77 overall! :D
[20:28] <mungojerry1> jorge castro must spend all day on that site
[20:29] <bigcalm> Anybody here know how to configure Tangerine?
[20:30] <daubers> bigcalm: Peel it and eat it?
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> Has anyone tried "f.lux"?
[20:34] <bigcalm> MartijnVdS: yes, it made me ill
[20:34] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it did? how?
[20:35] <bigcalm> Similar to motion sickness I guess
[20:35] <bigcalm> The defaults made me feel sick, I didn't bother to try any other settings
[20:37] <bigcalm> It might work for you
[20:38] <gr33npeace> any resident python coders in?  I've been banging my head against the httplib for a while, and after making the connection, the call to "socket.getaddrinfo" is taking forever...
[20:39] <gr33npeace> are there alternatives?  Don't really want to use urllib(2), as I have a series of requests to handle.
[20:39] <gr33npeace> httplib seemed like the thing to use...
[21:02] <daubers> d/win 10
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> daubers: fail :)
[21:04] <daubers> MartijnVdS: yup
[21:04]  * MartijnVdS waits for a ustream channel to start
[21:25] <popey> \o/ pub-o-clock
[21:26] <Nafallo> popey: wow. late such...
[21:26] <bigcalm> A DNS record with a TTL of 86400 would mean that any change would not propogate for 1 day?
[21:26] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it means that it can be cached for 24 hours
[21:27] <bigcalm> Ok
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so if someone requested the hostname 1 second before you edited it, its caching nameserver will cache for 24 hours
[21:27] <bigcalm> Aha
[21:27] <bigcalm> Makes sense
[21:27] <MartijnVdS> if they did it 23 hours before, they have to wait 1 hour
[21:28] <bigcalm> Using dig nameserver domain any, I can see that the domain I'm interested in is showing an old IP address
[21:28] <bigcalm> Does that mean that it's cached or that it hasn't actually been changed?
[21:28] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: can you pastebin the dig output?
[21:29] <Nafallo> bigcalm: tell dig to use the authorative name servers for the domain in question?
[21:29] <MartijnVdS> dig +trace is also cool
[21:29] <bigcalm> Nafallo: I'm asking the name server specified in the whois result
[21:30] <bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/578534/
[21:30] <Nafallo> if that has the old IP, it's sounds likely that the change didn't happen then.
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it says you're asking <IP_ADDRESS>
[21:30] <bigcalm> Ug
[21:30] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: try<EMAIL_ADDRESS>:)
[21:30] <bigcalm> Ah
[21:31] <bigcalm> Same result on the A record
[21:31] <bigcalm> This isn't good
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: look at the last lines.. it'll say which server it used
[21:31] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if that's <IP_ADDRESS>, you're not asking ns.rackspace.com :)
[21:32] <bigcalm> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/578535/
[21:32] <MartijnVdS> ah yes
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> and that IP (<IP_ADDRESS>) is wrong?
[21:33] <bigcalm> Yes
[21:33] <bigcalm> That's the old IP address
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> then you should have rackspace update the nameserver
[21:33] <bigcalm> The client wanted it to use an SSL cert. So we had them order a new IP as well
[21:33] <MartijnVdS> Why?
[21:34] <bigcalm> There are other sites hosted on that IP as well
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> You only need an extra IP if you want to use >1 SSL host
[21:34] <bigcalm> Indeed :)
[21:34] <bigcalm> There are several with and without SSL
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> Also, proper browsers support TLS/SNI now :)
[21:34] <MartijnVdS> http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/NameBasedSSLVHostsWithSNI
[21:34] <bigcalm> Aaaaaaaaaaany way
[21:35] <MartijnVdS> SNI \o/
[21:35] <bigcalm> I need to inform the client that they didn't update the DNS settings
[21:35] <bigcalm> Which is confusing
[21:38]  * brobostigon returns
[21:39] <MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
[21:39] <brobostigon> evening MartijnVdS :)
[21:39] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: oooh, what browsers do/don't do that then?
[21:40]  * brobostigon gets everyone real ale.
[21:40] <Nafallo> I bet wikipedia will have a list. they tend to like lists at that place.
[21:40] <Nafallo> ^-- AlanBell
[21:40] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: IE7>, FF2>, Opera8>, Chrome5>
[21:41] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication#Support
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> that, yes
[21:41] <AlanBell> so everything anyone uses except IE6
[21:41] <AlanBell> bonus
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: WinPhone<7 also isn't supported
[21:41] <MartijnVdS> some people still use Windows phones
[21:41] <AlanBell> double bonus
[21:42] <MartijnVdS> it has a test link
[21:45] <Nafallo> how about Symbian?
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> Honeycomb+
[21:46] <MartijnVdS> gingerbread, not so much
[21:48] <bigcalm> Have the honeycomb theme running on gingerbread, it's very swish ;)
[21:49] <bigcalm> So, is gingerbread the last development of 2?
[21:51] <bigcalm> 2h 5m on battery \o/
[21:52] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's what I heard
[21:52]  * MartijnVdS wants the xoom
[21:52] <bigcalm> Bit big to fit in ones pocket
[21:53] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: great for on the table/sofa
[21:53] <bigcalm> I'm sure :)
[21:54] <bigcalm> Netbook / phone do the same to an extent
[21:54] <bigcalm> Though I use my netbook a lot less since getting the N1
[21:54] <MartijnVdS> My laptop (13") is nice, but it's too bulky
[21:54] <MartijnVdS> also, it's very distracting
[21:54] <MartijnVdS> compared to something that can only do a bit of browsing/imdbing ;)
[21:56] <bigcalm> I'm sure everything has its use and some people will enjoy some devices more than others
 :(
[21:57] <Nafallo> netbook ♥
[22:06] <AlanBell> http://doodle.com/eucwzx2qdiiiqs5p Saturday 16th is looking strong still
[22:06] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[22:15] <HazRPG> I need to be less of a tab horde!
[22:15] <HazRPG> I swear that says I've got 132 tabs... >_<
[22:16] <brobostigon> evening HazRPG :)
[22:16] <HazRPG> brobostigon: evening :)
[22:17] <HazRPG> I've got chicken hotdogs!
[22:17] <HazRPG> \o/
[22:18] <brobostigon> yummy,
[22:24] <HazRPG> indeed :)
[22:24]  * HazRPG does not like pork
[22:25] <HazRPG> I find it smells funny too
[22:25] <brobostigon> interesting.
[23:07] <ZoeR>  all
[23:07] <ZoeR> Hi all
[23:08]  * ZoeR has no idea where the first 'Hi' went
[23:08] <brobostigon> evening ZoeR
[23:08] <Nafallo> hi ZoeR
[23:08] <ZoeR> How are you all tonight?
[23:09] <brobostigon> ZoeR: very tired, but i want to stay yp to watch, this week. and you?
[23:09] <ZoeR> Not bad, thanks. Just been watching 'House' and now have to work.
[23:09] <brobostigon> not seen that in ages,
[23:10]  * Nafallo yawns
[23:10]  * brobostigon gets Nafallo a cuppa.
[23:10] <Nafallo> relentless would be better, but thanks :-)
[23:10] <brobostigon> :)
[23:10] <ZoeR> Relentless is awesome
[23:11] <ZoeR> I wish they sold the sugar free version in more places 'round here though
[23:11] <brobostigon> i cant stand those energydrinks, they taste foul.
[23:11] <zleap> they sell that at the lighthouse in paignton, explains why the young people there are so hyper sometimes
[23:11] <Nafallo> there is a sugar free version?
[23:11] <Nafallo> that sounds boring... one less rush to hit ya :-/
[23:11] <ZoeR> Yes. 'Libertus'. It's in a blue can
[23:12] <ZoeR> And yes, it's one rush less but I'll take what I can get.
[23:12]  * Nafallo used to live of relentless, but mostly converted to water since new year
[23:13] <brobostigon> off*
[23:13]  * ZoeR used to live off Relentless and Wine Gums but now isn't allowed either because they gave her a sugar addiction
[23:13] <Nafallo> brobostigon: ta :-)
[23:13] <ZoeR> Hence why I want more places to stock the blue one
[23:13] <brobostigon> Nafallo: :)
[23:14]  * Nafallo inserts an off before the of
[23:14] <ZoeR> heh
[23:14] <brobostigon> ZoeR: you got it right, Nafallo didnt.
[23:15] <ZoeR> Well I suppose I had to be right some time.
[23:15] <Nafallo> brobostigon: I got it proper right after your correction though :-P
[23:15] <brobostigon> Nafallo: yes, :)
[23:16]  * brobostigon plays pedant.
[23:16]  * Nafallo waits for U1 to finish uploading stuff
[23:19] <ZoeR> I really should do some work
[23:19] <Nafallo> I should pack
[23:19]  * ZoeR decides to have a cup of tea instead
[23:19] <Nafallo> actually. I should pack tomorrow.
[23:19] <Nafallo> but I should hang laundry before bed.
[23:20]  * brobostigon gets ZoeR a twist of rum for her tea, as brobostigon has in his.
[23:21] <ZoeR> Gah!
[23:21]  * ZoeR heads for the antihistamines
[23:21] <brobostigon> oh, sorry,
[23:21] <ZoeR> hey, no worries
[23:21] <brobostigon> my apoologies.
[23:22]  * Nafallo throws out ZoeR's tea and makes a new one
[23:22] <ZoeR> awww, thanks. :)
[23:22] <ZoeR> I have to say it was a right pain finding that one out
[23:23] <ZoeR> Ever tried going to the doctor complaining about feeling really sick after you've been drinking? :)
[23:23] <brobostigon> i can imagine.i have some bad and weird and awkward allergies myself.
[23:23] <Nafallo> ZoeR: heh, my father is a doctor... so yeah ;-)
[23:23] <ZoeR> :D
[23:26] <Nafallo> oh
[23:26] <Nafallo> good
[23:26] <Nafallo> my dance class isn't until 11:30
[23:26] <Nafallo> I was certain it was at 10am or so
[23:27]  * brobostigon has an appointment with his hair dresser just after 10am.
[23:27]  * ZoeR hates morning appointments
[23:27] <Nafallo> well, I need to pack enough things for a weekend before I leave home :-)
[23:27]  * brobostigon agree's mostly.
[23:28] <Nafallo> I bet it'll take me like.. 1h30min to get to the place as well :-/
[23:28] <ZoeR> If anyone tries to organise a meeting with me and it's before 1pm, I will be hating them all the way through it
[23:28] <Nafallo> actually. I should probably figure out how I'll get there :-P
[23:29] <brobostigon> good night everyone, sleep well.
[23:30] <ZoeR> Goodnight
[23:30] <brobostigon> good night ZoeR
[23:30]  * ZoeR needs more tea
[23:30] <ZoeR> Back in a sec
[23:32] <Nafallo> lol. tfl thinks I should take the boat at 10:01 :-)
[23:33] <HazRPG> man, its really warm now
[23:34] <HazRPG> ZoeR: oh hey, :)
[23:35] <HazRPG> aww man I just missed brobostigon :(
[23:35] <HazRPG> shauno!
[23:35] <HazRPG> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ssc6iL2Qd6hFG3Xu6YgGIw?feat=directlink
[23:35] <hamitron> it is warm? :/
[23:35] <Baikonur> the thermos?
[23:35]  * hamitron is freezing his thingies off
[23:36] <HazRPG> it is in my house...
[23:36]  * HazRPG had heating on - but is now off for the heat factor is too much
[23:36] <hamitron> I reckon a cold house is bad for you
[23:36] <hamitron> coffee cools down quicker, so you end up drinking more
[23:36] <HazRPG> me?
[23:37] <Nafallo> oh. good point.
[23:37] <Nafallo> I should turn off the heating tomorrow.
[23:37] <HazRPG> hamitron: check the link :)
[23:38] <hamitron> a coffee flask...
[23:38] <ZoeR> Cold houses are definitely bad for you. They encourage mould growth
[23:38] <hamitron> ZoeR: mold is bad for you?
[23:38] <ZoeR> yes
[23:38] <Nafallo> and when I said off, I meant 17 degrees instead of 22 :-P
[23:38] <hamitron> tbh, I open the window to remove moisture
[23:39] <ZoeR> http://www.buzzle.com/articles/toxic-black-mold-symptoms-poisoning.html
[23:39] <Nafallo> ooooh
[23:39] <Nafallo> poison!
[23:39] <ZoeR> yeah
[23:39]  * Nafallo puts on headphones
[23:39] <ZoeR> it's horrible stuff. gets through the blood-brain barrier
[23:40] <hamitron> if only I could harvest it to use on people I don't like
[23:41] <ZoeR> You can grow it fairly easily, if my house is anything to go by
[23:41] <Nafallo> braaaaains
[23:41]  * ZoeR will be so glad to move out of here
[23:42]  * hamitron has the window open
[23:42] <hamitron> damn cold
[23:42] <hamitron> :/
[23:43] <HazRPG> :( nothings showing on the TV :(
[23:43] <hamitron> you tuned it in?
[23:44] <HazRPG> its an A/V cable
[23:44] <HazRPG> shouldn't need tuning
[23:44] <ZoeR> You can't tune a TV nowadays, can you? They need a digibox
[23:44] <HazRPG> ZoeR: this tv is from 1991 ;)
[23:44] <hamitron> ofc you can tune a tv!
[23:44] <hamitron> ;)
[23:45]  * ZoeR only has a TV for playing Guitar Hero, so she isn't au fait with how they work
[23:45]  * hamitron sighs
[23:45] <hamitron> youngsters ;)
[23:46] <ZoeR> who is a youngster?
[23:47] <PalaPad> Definitely not me lol
[23:47] <zleap> speccys for ever :)
[23:47] <hamitron> zleap: which you got?
[23:47] <zleap> zx spectrum 48k+
[23:48] <hamitron> :)
[23:48] <ZoeR> Speccys were not as good as the good old CPC!
[23:48] <zleap> plus the speccy classics 98 cdrom
[23:48] <zleap> so i can play emulated game
[23:48] <zleap> s
[23:48] <hamitron> ZX 128k +2 ;)
[23:48] <HazRPG> yes!
[23:48] <HazRPG> one out of 2 works :D!
[23:48] <HazRPG> although, tis a shame... cos I'd rather had the first one working!
[23:49] <hamitron> use for spares?
[23:49] <JamesTait> CPC464 FTW!
[23:49] <hamitron> tomorrow I am going to say i3 ftw
[23:49] <hamitron> :)
[23:49]  * JamesTait goes back to lurking in the shadows.
[23:49] <PalaPad> They has the nasty tape decks iirc
[23:49] <ZoeR> yeah
[23:50] <ZoeR> CPC464 = Read Error B = AAAAAAAAARGH!
[23:50] <PalaPad> Great for jet set willy 2 though
[23:50] <zleap> yeah
[23:50] <zleap> i have the ms dos port of that
[23:50] <HazRPG> hmm, is the screen meant to go a funny colour when you press play :/
[23:50] <Nafallo> JamesTait: beauty and beast style?
[23:50] <zleap> well wasn't jet set will 2 just jet set willy 1 but bigger
[23:50] <HazRPG> oh, apparently it does
[23:50] <JamesTait> Nafallo: something like that. :)
[23:50] <hamitron> HazRPG: probably
[23:50] <Nafallo> ♥
[23:51] <HazRPG> time for some bionic granny apparently
[23:51] <Nafallo> good movie, that is.
[23:51] <zleap> as latter was for the 48k speccy rather than the 16k speccy
[23:51] <PalaPad> Wasn't locoscript available for the cpc464 as well?
[23:51] <zleap> not sure
[23:51] <ZoeR> Not sure. They had Locomotive BASIC though
[23:51]  * Nafallo considers ice cream
[23:51] <zleap> i have a book with a basic to forth interpreter as a program
[23:51] <hamitron> does stuff for the 16k speccy run in 48k mode?
[23:51] <zleap> well in effect it had 32k useable memory
[23:52] <zleap> as 16k was rom,  16k was system and the rest was for prpgrams (binary)
[23:52] <zleap> as the upper address space was something like 32768 - 65535 or 8000h to FFFFFF hex
[23:52] <zleap> ffff hex sorry
[23:53] <zleap> so yeah you can run 16k programs on the 48k
[23:53] <hamitron> I never spent much time on mine
[23:53] <hamitron> got it 2nd hand, but had a brand new PC
[23:53] <zleap> ah
[23:54] <zleap> you can get .tap (tape) files so can emulate it loading i real time
[23:54] <hamitron> iirc, it has 4 options on opening screen
[23:54]  * PalaPad got a free room upgrade and a free business class seat on his flight on his trip this week :)
[23:54] <zleap> so set it going, go make a drink come back and its loaded
[23:54] <hamitron> loader, calc, 48k something and something else
[23:54] <zleap> ah
[23:54] <zleap> ok the 128k had that
[23:54] <hamitron> yeh
[23:55] <hamitron> I also have an older ZX, but no tape device for it
[23:55] <hamitron> so never tried it
[23:55] <zleap> it was like the f16 program, you had to load side 2 on the 48k when you wanted to do a mission, but with the 128k speccy you could load the whole game in,  same for road runner game
[23:56] <zleap> tape decks are cheap
[23:56] <zleap> google world of spectrum
[23:56] <zleap> they still make games for the speccy
[23:56] <hamitron> no point when I have a 128k +2
[23:56] <hamitron> :)
[23:56] <PalaPad> My brother in law was a specie game developer
[23:56] <PalaPad> Speccy
[23:56] <hamitron> internal tape drive is enough for me
[23:57] <hamitron> I'd rather look at what else can be plugged in
[23:57] <hamitron> and how to use it properly
[23:57] <hamitron> :)
[23:57] <zleap> i had a +d drive
[23:57] <zleap> 720k floppy disks
[23:57] <hamitron> but my new comp upgrade tomorrow will distract me again no doubt
[23:58] <zleap> 16 speccy games or 15 + a game menu
[23:59] <hamitron> ZX Spectrum+ is my other one


[08:20] <Saviq> didrocks, hey, could you have a look at https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/killqt51/+merge/217055, we're dropping support for Qt < 5.2.1, should we add (>= 5.2.1) to all the qt build deps, even though qt's own deps would force it anyway?
[08:24] <didrocks> Saviq: yeah, better to be explicit and have that for all build-deps/deps you depend on Qt
[08:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, ↑
[08:25] <tsdgeos> ?
[08:25] <Saviq> tsdgeos, like qtdeclarative5-private-dev
[08:26] <tsdgeos> ok
[08:26] <tsdgeos> looks a bit unneeded to me tbh
[08:26] <tsdgeos> but ok
[08:26] <Saviq> tsdgeos, is just explicit, is all
[08:26] <tsdgeos> man with me adding N/A to packaging :D
[08:26] <Saviq> tsdgeos, OTOH we could say we want it only where we really require new Qt
[08:26]  * tsdgeos hides
[08:26] <Saviq> ;D
[08:27] <tsdgeos> i mean i didn't add it to the others since it was just cascading
[08:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yeah I understand, that's the question I asked to Didier
[08:27] <tsdgeos> you can't have qtbase5-private-dev 5.1 if you have qtbase5-dev (>= 5.2.1)
[08:27] <Saviq> tsdgeos, so qtbase5-dev, qtdeclarative5-dev, -private-dev, those are the three we really require atm
[08:28] <Saviq> tsdgeos, when we start importing QtQuick 2.2, we'll add it to qtquick2-plugin
[08:28] <tsdgeos> ok
[08:29] <Saviq> all the others I think we could still have 5.0, right?
[08:29] <Saviq> qtbase5-private-dev, too
[08:29] <Saviq> (should be >= 5.2.1
[08:29] <Saviq> )
[08:30] <tsdgeos> Saviq: i think so, yes
[08:30] <Saviq> so yeah, let's be meaningful about it
[08:30] <tsdgeos> pushed
[08:30] <Saviq> sure the net result is going to be the same
[08:31] <Saviq> tsdgeos, re: import 2.0 vs. 2.2, think importing two different versions of QtQuick will be more costly than just using the same across the board?
[08:32] <tsdgeos> Saviq: don't think so
[08:32] <tsdgeos> it's the same library
[08:32] <tsdgeos> just the interpreter does some "QML symbol" hiding depending of which import you did
[08:32] <tsdgeos> but i don't think that's going to be faster slower if you import one or many
[08:35] <Saviq> tsdgeos, right
[08:35] <Saviq> k makes sense
[08:45] <tsdgeos> Saviq: just to make sure, at the Card.qml level, template and components are shared by all Cards of the same "parent", it's only cardData that is different
[08:45] <tsdgeos> right?
[08:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, yes
[08:45] <Saviq> tsdgeos, template and components are per-category
[09:00] <Saviq> didrocks, ACK on packaging changes when you have a moment please https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/unity8/killqt51/+merge/217055
[09:02] <didrocks> Saviq: done
[09:02] <Saviq> didrocks, thanks!
[09:32] <Saviq> Cimi, you might want to check your local branches for tags, vrruiz's branch had old ones
[09:33] <Saviq> Cimi, as a reminder: http://people.canonical.com/~msawicz/unity8/strip-u8-tags.sh
[09:34] <Cimi> Saviq, I did run it, not sure the latests
[09:34] <Cimi> Saviq, is there a way to run it locally?
[09:35] <Cimi> Saviq, takes ages remotely
[09:35] <Saviq> Cimi, I only meant your local branches
[09:35] <Saviq> Cimi, so wherever you have the checkouts
[09:35] <Saviq> Cimi, so that you don't push them anywhere ;)
[09:35] <Saviq> Cimi, only Victor's branch has them from the approved ones currently
[09:36] <Saviq> Cimi, but since you reviewed it
[09:36] <Saviq> Cimi, you merged it in your branch somewhere, and that could've "infected" you with them
[09:36] <Cimi> Saviq, I checked out his branch directly
[09:36] <Cimi> didn't merge to mine
[09:36] <Cimi> but thanks
[09:37] <Cimi> Saviq, is there a command we can use to run inside a branch and check for tags?
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, so, FYI: when reviewing, you should always merge on trunk ;)
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, `bzr tags | wc -l`\
[09:37] <Saviq> -\
[09:37] <Cimi> Saviq, I do the opposite
[09:37] <Cimi> Saviq, I checkout a branch
[09:37] <Cimi> then I merge trunk inside
[09:37] <Cimi> it's kinda the same thing
[09:37] <Saviq> Cimi, kinda, but reverse to what actually happens when things are landed
[09:38] <Saviq> Cimi, probably 0.000001 probability something goes differently
[09:38] <Cimi> yes agree but is the same thing
[09:38] <Cimi> Saviq, but it has the advantage that I don't have to specify a path when I branch :)
[09:38] <Cimi> otherwise "bzr branch lp:unity8" complains I have already a folder unity8 :)
[09:39] <Cimi> laziiiiness
[09:39] <Cimi> :D
[09:40] <Saviq> Cimi, colo branches FTW
[09:40] <Cimi> Saviq, what the hell is that, I am googling
[09:40] <Cimi> :)
[09:42] <Saviq> Cimi, I only have a single folder with a unity8 checkout
[09:42] <Saviq> Cimi, and switch between branches with `bzr switch colo:foo`
[09:43] <Saviq> git-style
[09:43] <Cimi> oh wow cool
[10:23] <Saviq> /food
[10:30] <Cimi> ping me when you back Saviq :)
[10:41] <Cimi> dednick, you know how to create a snap decision?
[10:42] <dednick> Cimi: i do.
[10:42] <dednick> Cimi: if you're talking about the shutdown dialog, I'm not sure that it should be a snap decision.
[10:43] <dednick> "even though it may look like one at the moment"
[10:43] <Cimi> why?
[10:44] <dednick> Cimi: because I think it's a bit insecure.
[10:45] <Cimi> dednick, insecure in which meaning?
[10:45] <dednick> Cimi: possibly one of those new fangled SecureDialog that mirco is writing. Or something generated by dbus call which we can secure with apparmor
[10:46] <dednick> Cimi: anything can generate a snap decision.
[10:46] <Cimi> dednick, I have the powerd code in front of me
[10:46] <Cimi> dednick, basically I need to change the callback
[10:47] <Cimi> and it's C!!
[10:47] <Cimi> finally I understand :D
[10:47] <dednick> Cimi: i think that the shutdown calls should probably be sent to powerd from unity8.
[10:47] <Cimi> dednick, so I can do pretty much everything we want
[10:48] <Cimi> haven't played with dbus yet but I think it will be fairly easy to send something
[10:48] <Cimi> that we can hook up on the shell
[10:48] <dednick> Saviq: was there ever a consensus on who was responsible for shutdown?
[10:48] <dednick> powerd/systemd/unity8 ?
[10:51] <Cimi> dednick, I'd say unity8 or notifications have to confirm shutdown
[10:51] <Cimi> so powerd must sends and receive
[10:52] <Cimi> I mean emit something and wait something else, securely
[10:54] <dednick> Cimi: this is what I had when i was originally doing this: https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/powerd/dbus-shutdown
[10:55] <Cimi> oh wow C
[10:55] <Cimi> I love C
[10:55] <dednick> Cimi: and https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/unity8/powerdown for the dialog
[10:55] <dednick> but it's probably way out of date.
[10:59] <dednick> Cimi: but i don't really like the idea of sending a request from powerd, then a async response from unity8. I think maybe mirco's dialog interface may be a good plan.
[11:01] <dednick> Cimi: it's even possible that unity8 should handle the pwer key event itself.
[11:04] <dednick> Cimi: and now you understand why this hasn't been finished yet :)
[11:07] <Saviq> dednick, lightdm as far as I can tell
[11:07] <Saviq> Cimi, ↑
[11:07] <Saviq> so unity8 would receive the power button press, display a dialog and tell LightDM to shut down
[11:08] <Saviq> which goes in concert with reducing powerd's responsibility to handle input
[11:08] <Saviq> I don't think anything external needs to be involved
[11:08] <Saviq> Cimi, is there design for the dialog?
[11:08] <dednick> Saviq: ah yeah, lightdm was the one. not systemd.
[11:09] <dednick> Saviq: a very "rudimentary" design. https://launchpadlibrarian.net/158819734/poweroff-buttons.png
[11:10] <Saviq> right, so that does look ~kind of like a snap decision / system dialog
[11:11] <Saviq> we should find out whether it's supposed to participate in the usual snap decision flow
[11:12] <dednick> and if it's a final design...
[11:13] <dednick> dont want to do it as a snap and then find out, "oh, it should be full screen" ala pin lock. :)
[11:13] <Cimi> Saviq, there is a video
[11:14] <dednick> Cimi: you have a link?
[11:16] <Cimi> dednick, I can put it on google docs
[11:17] <Cimi> dednick, https://drive.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B2mvp37s6lHvMWZ5OVFZM2wtbk0/edit?usp=sharing
[11:17] <Cimi> Saviq, ^
[11:18] <dednick> hm. ok, i guess it may be a final design then...
[11:18] <dednick> can't generate a snap decision from unity8 though...
[11:19] <dednick> unless mirco fixed that
[11:19] <Cimi> dednick, it was signed off
[11:19] <Saviq> there's no QML component that you could with, yet
[11:20] <Cimi> Saviq, what?
[11:20] <Cimi> dunno much about snap decisions
[11:20] <Saviq> Cimi, there's no QML component to generate a snap decision with
[11:21] <dednick> you can't send a snap decision from unity8, even with the C api. something to do with the event loop iirc
[11:21] <Saviq> oh
[11:21] <Saviq> should be possible to inject without DBus, though
[11:22] <Saviq> but might be tricky, too
[11:22] <dednick> yep.
[11:22] <Saviq> Cimi, please find out whether the shut down dialog should be a snap decision indeed, as in what happens if you get a call when the dialog is on screen - should the call s-d show up next to it, or maybe shutdown cancelled
[11:24] <Cimi> Saviq, shutdown should not cancel if I receive a call while I have the snap decision on
[11:24] <Cimi> Saviq, it should queue and show both
[11:24] <Cimi> I should be able to shut down the phone and ignore the call
[11:24] <Saviq> Cimi, you certain?
[11:25] <Cimi> Saviq, it's my common sense
[11:25] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, sorry, not good enough, please confirm the design
[11:25] <Saviq> FWIW while any s-d is on screen, you won't be able to interact with the app
[11:25] <Saviq> so you'd cancel the shutdown dialog anyway
[11:25] <Cimi> Saviq, I am want to switch off the call because I don't want to hear my wife calling me because I am upset, and she stops me from powering off my phone
[11:26] <Saviq> Cimi, still, we're not the ones to take this decision
[11:26] <Cimi> or different use case
[11:26] <Cimi> I am in a meeting, ringtone loud
[11:26] <Cimi> or before departure
[11:26] <Cimi> on a plane
[11:27] <Saviq> Cimi, please confirm with design that the shutdown dialog is really meant to behave like any other s-d
[11:27] <Cimi> trying to switch off the phone but somebody calls me and cancels
[11:27] <Cimi> with my ringtone ringing in front of Ryanair angry stewart
[11:27] <Cimi> I will do now :)
[11:28] <Cimi> Saviq, granted that we want this, showing two notifications on screen
[11:29] <Cimi> Saviq, shutdown notification and incoming call
[11:29] <Cimi> Saviq, what shall we do next?
[11:29] <Cimi> Saviq, sending dbus call from powerd?
[11:30] <Saviq> Cimi, no, let's not build any more knowledge into powerd, when we want to move it out of there
[11:30] <Cimi> ok
[11:30] <Saviq> although powerd currently handles long-power-press as power-click anyway
[11:30] <Cimi> that's why
[11:30] <Cimi> Saviq, https://code.launchpad.net/~nick-dedekind/powerd/dbus-shutdown
[11:31] <Cimi> is fairly correct
[11:31] <Cimi> in my opinion
[11:32] <Saviq> but going in the wrong direction
[11:33] <Saviq> we want to move stuff out of powerd, not move more inside it
[11:33] <Cimi> there are only issues with the timeout and possible segfaults ibecause we're not handling dispose
[11:33] <dednick> Saviq: what about the power click (screen off) ??
[11:33] <Cimi> g source should be cleared
[11:33] <Cimi> on dispose
[11:33] <Saviq> dednick, that should ultimately go into unity8 as well
[11:33] <Saviq> dednick, same as activity monitoring
[11:34] <Saviq> and suppression mechanisms, too
[11:35] <dednick> mmm
[11:36] <Saviq> so yeah... that's long-term
[11:36] <dednick> i see heads exploding when putting power management into shell.
[11:37] <Cimi> yeah
[11:37] <Cimi> I agree
[11:38] <Cimi> shell is a shell, should not handle power
[11:38] <Cimi> can control power, but not interact with it IMHO
[11:38] <Cimi> there should be a service for that
[11:38] <Cimi> if shell crashes or hangs, I cannot switch off my phone
[11:39] <dednick> Cimi: well, you cant anyway, because there's no cnfirm :)
[11:40] <Cimi> dednick, you can if you leave in powerd
[11:40] <Cimi> dednick, one looong press to start shutdown
[11:40] <Cimi> dednick, like you did, 20 secs in your branch
[11:40] <dednick> Cimi: i think that's hardwired into android
[11:41] <Cimi> dednick, android?
[11:41] <Cimi> dednick, you mean the phone?
[11:41] <Cimi> motherboard whatever
[11:41] <dednick> whereever
[11:41] <Cimi> ok
[11:41] <Cimi> got it
[11:42] <Cimi> might be right
[11:42] <Cimi> but for emergency shutdown
[11:42] <dednick> but, anyway. volume key handling is also in unity8...
[11:42] <dednick> so...
[11:42] <Cimi> a 10 or 5 seconds shutdown should be handled by a daemon/service
[11:42] <Cimi> dednick, I think is wrong
[11:43] <Cimi> dednick, those things should go as services
[11:43] <Cimi> for the same reasons about hanging shell
[11:43] <Cimi> and whole system collapses
[11:44] <Cimi> we took shit for years because when compiz was crashing unity7 was bringing down everything, and viceversa
[11:45] <Cimi> we should eventually move all those hardware functionalities in something separate
[11:45] <Cimi> so they are guaranteeded to work regardless of the shell running/crashing/slowing down
[11:46] <Cimi> that way shell could also suspend itself when I am playing a video or doing something else fullscreen
[11:46] <dednick> I'm not arguing...
[11:46] <Cimi> thus saving more battery
[11:47] <Cimi> dednick, so let's start by architect the power button better :)
[11:48] <dednick> what does the desktop use?
[11:51] <dednick> woops
[11:51] <dednick> long press power button on desktop shows power dialog. why dont we use the same thing?
[11:52] <dednick> (of course, even after dismissing the dialog, my desktoip got shut down; but that's not the point....)
[11:54] <Cimi> ahah
[11:54] <Cimi> dednick, I think we use gnome power manager or something for that
[11:56] <Cimi> dednick, and ultimately apparently upower
[11:58] <Saviq> Cimi, shell becomes the compositor, display server, if it slows down, you won't be able to do anything anyway, so that's not a valid argument
[11:58] <dednick> i think we use the session indicator
[11:59] <Saviq> Cimi, and for battery life - that's exactly why we need to move input handling into the shell, so that powerd does not wake on every event, when the shell already does
[11:59] <Saviq> Cimi, and please don't "rearchitect" things, there's other people responsible to do that
[12:01] <Cimi> Saviq, those are hardware buttons
[12:01] <Cimi> and services
[12:01] <Saviq> Cimi, everything is hardware at some point
[12:02] <Saviq> and splitting the responsibilities isn't getting you anywhere
[12:02] <Cimi> they should be controlled independently from the UI
[12:02] <Saviq> no, they should not
[12:02] <Saviq> 'cause UI reacts to those hardware buttons
[12:03] <Saviq> we want a pre-suspend animation, we need to composite a pre-resume frame, we need to reduce the number of input receivers to a minimum to save power
[12:03] <dednick> Saviq: desktop not runnig a shell. runs a music player in the vterm. presses volume button. what happens?
[12:03] <Saviq> dednick, input goes to the music player
[12:04] <Saviq> dednick, and it does whatever it wants with it
[12:04] <Saviq> why are we trying to treat volume and power buttons different than any other key you have on your keyboard?
[12:04] <Saviq> dednick, even now volume and power buttons are handled by unity7
[12:04] <dednick> Saviq: so every player should be intepretting events then, not the shell.
[12:05] <Saviq> dednick, sure, if it reaches the player, it should interpret it, but the shell needs to be able to override behaviour
[12:05] <Saviq> dednick, if music player isn't focused, what do you want the volume buttons to do?
[12:05] <Saviq> if there isn't music played at all, what then?
[12:05] <Cimi> Saviq, change master volume
[12:06] <Saviq> Cimi, what does that change?
[12:06] <Cimi> hardware buttons should change the master volume of my sondcard/output
[12:06] <Cimi> not the current player
[12:06] <dednick> mmm
[12:06] <Saviq> Cimi, that's really not how it works
[12:07] <Cimi> how it should imho
[12:07] <Saviq> no, you're not considering a lot of cases
[12:07] <Cimi> Saviq, I am happy to understand why it would be better handled in the shell
[12:07] <Saviq> when it comes to volume buttons, MeeGo has done the best job there is
[12:08] <Saviq> by default, screen off → nothing happens
[12:08] <Saviq> by default, screen on → you change profile between loud, quite, muted etc.
[12:08] <Saviq> when music plays, screen off → volume changes
[12:08] <Saviq> when music plays, screen on → volume changes
[12:09] <Saviq> when no music playing, but focused app interprets volume → it does what it wants to
[12:09] <Saviq> handling that in "a service" is really going to be a PITA
[12:09] <Saviq> for no advantage at all
[12:10] <Saviq> if you change your music volume, you don't want that to affect the ringtone volume, so you can't change master volume
[12:10] <Saviq> etc.
[12:10] <Saviq> so no, I completely disagree, and I'm not the only one, for that matter
[12:10] <Saviq> even in unity7 it's the sound indicator I think that grabs volume and media keys
[12:11] <Saviq> and tells Pulseaudio to do what it needs to do, which changes current output volume, not master volume
[12:11] <Saviq> and talks to apps via MPRIS about media keys
[12:11] <Cimi> Saviq, android has separate volumes
[12:11] <dednick> ok, so i get the argument for the volume, but power as well? there's no real intrpetation there is ther?
[12:11] <Cimi> Saviq, so probably different audio slots
[12:11] <Cimi> you can have a service/deamon adjusting volumes of those slots
[12:12] <Saviq> Cimi, and that service needs to know what is in the foreground now
[12:12] <Saviq> Cimi, so you get into IPC
[12:12] <Saviq> please, let's not
[12:12] <Cimi> when a player is connected to the media slot and the screen is off, the audio daemon modifies output volume of this slot
[12:12] <Cimi> I am saying is not PITA
[12:12] <Saviq> yeah, and now we have 55 services
[12:13] <Saviq> every single one waking up on volume button press
[12:13] <Saviq> to see if it wants to handle it
[12:13] <Saviq> yay for battery life
[12:13] <karni> mhr3: I found a bug in scope Preview (or so I suspect), but have trouble triaging it. can you help?
[12:13] <Cimi> Saviq, why they should react? just the "audio daemon"
[12:14] <Saviq> Cimi, they don't want to react, but they will still get the volume button press if they connect directly to the input stream
[12:14] <Cimi> I understand this
[12:15] <Cimi> but I still think that power button should be handled in the most reliable way
[12:15] <Saviq> Cimi, and if there's something that's meant to route the input just to the audio daemon, that thing needs to listen to all input, and wake on every input event, even though the shell needs to, as well, so we at least double the CPU time to handle that event at the lower level
[12:15] <Saviq> dednick, Cimi, as long as it's meant to have a result in the UI (suspend screen, display power off dialog), why not handle it in the UI?
[12:15] <Saviq> Cimi, that's different, forced shutdown needs to happen in a lower level indeed
[12:16] <Saviq> but anything that's actually supposed to affect the UI relies on the fact that the UI is actually working
[12:16] <Saviq> if it's not, how is it better that something lower level will listen to it, if nothing is going to happen anyway?
[12:17] <dednick> Saviq: are we going to have different path for ubuntu desktop?
[12:17] <Saviq> dednick, no, why?
[12:17] <dednick> if we dont run unity8
[12:17] <Saviq> dednick, we have the same path we have _now_ in unity7
[12:18] <Saviq> dednick, power button press is handled by your current vt
[12:18] <Saviq> dednick, it's just an input event like any other
[12:19] <dednick> mk. thats fine by me.
[12:19] <Saviq> yay, pressing power + esc just halted the PC for me :P
[12:19] <Saviq> that's lower level for ya!
[12:19] <dednick> :) yeah, it shut me down earlier
[12:20] <Saviq> so, all in all, all input needs to go: hw → shell → app → shell
[12:20] <dednick> power is handled by indicator-session on desktop
[12:20] <Saviq> so that we can behave smart
[12:20] <Saviq> with only power being interpreted by lower level as well to force shutdown
[12:20] <dednick> + a unitydialog/zenity
[12:21] <Saviq> yups
[12:21] <mhr3> karni, what's the issue?
[12:21] <dednick> Saviq: but where is the button press picked up? unity7?
[12:22] <Saviq> dednick, not sure in the unity7 case, it might be LightDM talking to the session
[12:22] <Saviq> not sure power is just an X key event under X11, but would expect so
[12:23] <karni> mhr3: I have a preview with two buttons. Each belongs to separate 'actions' widget. Both launch the same URL, even though preview data returned from smart scope server is correct.
[12:23] <Saviq> let me check something
[12:23] <karni> mhr3: if you could check if two buttons from two separate action widgets properly map to their uri actions, that would be great
[12:25] <mhr3> karni, and you adding 'uri' props to the actions?
[12:25] <mhr3> s/and/are/
[12:26] <Saviq> dednick, under X it seems somewhat different, if there's no session running / intercepting the power off event, you get shutdown
[12:26]  * Saviq not sure we're actually getting a PowerOff event on the phone
[12:26] <Cimi> Saviq, same thing with ctrl alt del
[12:26] <karni> mhr3: this is interesting. so, for first one, I have 'uri': result['uri'] , but I just noticed for the second I have 'url': result['foobar_url'] - even if I made a mistake, second button should launch what first button launches
[12:26] <Saviq> Cimi, yeah, those are interpreted by the vt probably, since nothing intercepts it
[12:26]  * karni tries
[12:26] <Cimi> Saviq, exact;y
[12:27] <Saviq> Cimi, but that's just _fallback_
[12:27] <Cimi> Saviq, we should have something similar
[12:27] <Cimi> Saviq, I am not againt handling them in the shell
[12:27] <mhr3> karni, can you pastebin the entire json pls?
[12:27] <Cimi> Saviq, I am just for having a fallback when shell is not responding
[12:27] <Saviq> Cimi, we have something exactly the same, that still means that *if* there's a shell working, you interpret them in the shell
[12:27] <Saviq> Cimi, of course, but that's not what you argued
[12:27] <Saviq> Cimi, you argued there should be a service regardless of whether shell is working or not
[12:28] <karni> mhr3: just fixed line 21 (/s/url/uri), testing http://paste.ubuntu.com/7329484/
[12:28] <mhr3> karni, yea, that should work afaict
[12:29] <Saviq> Cimi, and power/c+a+d are really a special case, volume isn't
[12:29] <Saviq> Cimi, does your volume change when you switch to a VT and press volume up/down buttons?
[12:29] <mhr3> karni, and why aren't you defining all the buttons inside a single actions widget?
[12:29] <karni> mhr3: 1) because I can :D 2) I wanted to have them one under another. Is there another way to achieve this?
[12:30] <karni> mhr3: so, yeah, /s/url/uri fixed the problem.
[12:30] <Saviq> karni, that's against design ;)
[12:30] <karni> Saviq: oh sh!t :O (/me fixes ;) )
[12:30] <mhr3> karni, ^^ what he said :P
[12:30] <Saviq> karni, it's meant to be:
[12:30] <Saviq>                     (primary action)
[12:31] <karni> mhr3: I suspect PreviewActions was iterating through actions, or something, and assigned the second button action of the first one, because there were 2 buttons, but one proper uri. still, strange.
[12:31] <Saviq> (secondary action) (primary action)
[12:31] <Saviq> (negative action) (primary action)
[12:31] <karni> Saviq: thank you
[12:31] <Saviq> (combo button) (primary action)
[12:31] <karni> Saviq: well, we haven't gone through design with this yet, so, that problem would surface :)
[12:31] <karni> thanks, anyway!
[12:31]  * karni fixes
[12:31]  * Saviq wonders if we should limit the number of action widgets to one
[12:31] <Saviq> probably not...
[12:31] <mhr3> karni, if "uri" is not defined for the button, it falls back to result.uri (as in result for which the preview was requested)
[12:32] <karni> Saviq: in theory, buttons can be interleaved by other widgets
[12:32] <Saviq> karni, yeah, I know
[12:32] <karni> mhr3: oooh that explains it. pretty smart ;D
[12:32] <karni> just saying. I know you know :D
[12:35] <karni> has Ubuntu Palette been updated, and bazillion of 'TODO's by me in unity8 are gone ;D?
[12:36] <Saviq> karni, it's not that easy
[12:36] <karni> I'm sure it's not :)
[12:36] <Saviq> karni, it's not about updating the palette, but about extending it - we still need the original palette for the rest of the shell
[12:36] <karni> right
[12:36] <Saviq> karni, but anyway, this will go away with dash becoming an app
[12:36] <Saviq> karni, which will have its own theme
[12:37] <karni> oh cool!!
[12:37] <karni> Saviq: does that mean we'll allow custom Dash apps? :O
[12:37] <Saviq> karni, define custom dash apps?
[12:37] <karni> Saviq: I write my own Dash. since Canonical's Dash is an app, I can install mine as well?
[12:38] <karni> s/is/will be
[12:38] <Saviq> karni, well, it's going to be a special app
[12:38] <karni> ;>
[12:38] <Saviq> karni, arguably, yes, it would be possible
[12:38] <Saviq> karni, it's only gonna be special in the sense that it's not closeable, is respawned, and that some gestures / buttons will take you to it
[12:39] <karni> Saviq: I see
[12:39] <Saviq> so it could be possible to replace that with some other app, as long as it mimics the original dash
[12:40] <karni> Saviq: I find it amusing that second button from actions widget shows to the left. while this is consistent with what you said about button layout (same as on Android, secondary action | primary action, cancel | confirm), it's somewhat counterintuitive they should up in reverse.
[12:40] <karni> right
[12:41] <Saviq> karni, depends on which paw you use your phone with ;)
[12:41] <Saviq> thumb works well with the positive button
[12:41] <mhr3> Saviq, it's like running scope-tool in the mir-preview-session
[12:41] <mhr3> super confusing
[12:41] <karni> Saviq: haha. I'm not saying about the palms. I'm saying, in code, I do: actions.append(foo), actions.append(bar), and then I get bar | foo on the phone
[12:41] <Saviq> mhr3, lol :D
[12:42] <Saviq> mhr3, so that's what you were trying to do? :)
[12:42] <Saviq> karni, yeah, they go RTL, since any actions beyond the second will be collapsed into a combo button (at some point at least)
[12:42]  * karni agrees with the "negative | positive/confirm" layout. I meant how code maps to button layouting
[12:42] <mhr3> Saviq, you mean my unity-mir adventures?
[12:42] <Saviq> mhr3, yup :)
[12:43] <mhr3> Saviq, nope ;)
[12:43]  * karni noted
[12:43] <mhr3> Saviq, i wrote something like android's zygote for qmlscene
[12:43] <Saviq> mhr3, to speed up launch?
[12:43] <mhr3> yep
[12:43] <karni> what confuses me is, when I launch a browser from a scope result preview, when I swipe the browser to right, I get to "Apps" screen, and not to the scope results I was browsing.
[12:44] <karni> mhr3: I heard you and Ondrej were working on this. cool.
[12:44] <Saviq> karni, right, dash resets by design when you unfocus it
[12:44] <Saviq> mhr3, are you putting it under upstart jobs?
[12:44] <mhr3> Saviq, but qt is very unfriendly to pre-init stuff without having an actual QCoreApplication, so doesn't help much
[12:44] <karni> personally, I think it's a wrong decision. but I have nothing to say about this professionally.
[12:45] <Saviq> karni, file a bug, this behavior might not be wanted any more
[12:45] <mhr3> Saviq, i did it without upstart
[12:45] <Saviq> karni, a *lot* has changed
[12:45] <Saviq> mhr3, so no lifecycle management :?
[12:45] <karni> Saviq: ok
[12:45] <Saviq> mhr3, we really want all apps to be managed by upstart...
[12:45] <mhr3> Saviq, well... i did hook up closing, but if the app forked, noone would know :)
[12:45] <Saviq> mhr3, yeah
[12:46] <mhr3> Saviq, and i disagree, what upstart does to track forks is stupid
[12:46] <mhr3> and we'll get rid of upstart anyway
[12:46] <Cimi> Saviq, volume keys in X are input events
[12:46] <Cimi> they come from kbd
[12:47] <Saviq> Cimi, yes, I know, handled by the shell, not by no service
[12:47] <Cimi> not sure on phones
[12:47] <Saviq> Cimi, read Shell.qml
[12:47] <Cimi> but i was concerned of power button
[12:47] <Saviq> mhr3, sure, but we'll replace it with logind or whatever session systemd, same thing - we need everything to under there
[12:48] <karni> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity8/+bug/1312707
[12:49] <mhr3> Saviq, i need to dig into systemd, but i hope it does something more sophisticated than ptracing to track forks
[12:49] <mhr3> i think it uses cgroups
[12:49] <mhr3> which means you could add arbitrary process to it
[12:49] <mhr3> and therefore my zygote would work fine :)
[12:50] <Cimi> Saviq, so let me add power button to shell's powerd plugin?
[12:50] <Saviq> mhr3, I'm sure it's possible to "inject" a process into a job
[12:50] <mhr3> Saviq, not with upstart currently, no
[12:50] <Saviq> mhr3, kk
[12:50] <Saviq> Cimi, I don't think we should spend time on this task right now
[12:51] <Saviq> Cimi, we need to clear up the whole powerd vs. unity8 story
[12:51] <Saviq> Cimi, dednick, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/client-1410-unity-ui-power btw
[12:52] <Cimi> Saviq, I was assigned to boot down animation
[12:53] <Saviq> Cimi, I understand, but I don't think this task was evaluated enough
[12:54] <mhr3> Saviq, anyway, next weekend i'll patch qt to be able to pre-init v4 ;) we'll see how that goes
[12:54] <dednick> still can't find where the desktop power button is being caught. lightdm seems to be doing it's own thing with systemd, the same as the indicator-session is... unity7 guys probably have more info
[12:54] <mhr3> dednick, aren't those things handled by gsd?
[12:54] <Saviq> mhr3, you talked with mardy on that?
[12:55] <Saviq> mhr3, he did mention the MeeGo preloader a few times now
[12:55] <mhr3> right
[12:55] <mhr3> mardy, input ^^?
[12:55] <dednick> mhr3: gsd? err, gnome-settings-daemon ?
[12:56] <mhr3> dednick, yea, seb128 might know
[12:56] <Cimi> definitely not xevent
[12:56] <Cimi> I ran xev
[12:57] <Cimi> pressed power button
[12:57] <mhr3> udev
[12:57] <Cimi> yeah
[12:57]  * Cimi looks udev
[12:57] <dednick> well, it's being processed by indicator-session action somehow...
[12:57] <dednick> bregma: ping
[12:58] <bregma> yes?
[12:58] <dednick> bregma: howdy. your team did the unity7 shutdown dialog right?
[12:58] <bregma> certainly
[12:58] <bregma> or at least, one of them
[12:58] <dednick> bregma: you know where the power key event comes from?
[12:59] <dednick> as in, how does it get to indicator-session
[12:59] <bregma> isn't that a logind thing?  I really don;t know for sure, it's a maze of twisty little passages, all different
[13:00] <bregma> it could also be gnome-session-daemon, it does things like taht
[13:01] <seb128> unity-settings-daemon does it
[13:01] <Saviq> dednick, there's gnome.SessionManager with some methods like that
[13:01] <dednick> ah
[13:01] <dednick> seb128: thanks
[13:01] <seb128> logind handles the power button to shutdown the system
[13:01] <seb128> but the session puts an inhibitor and react to the action by showing a dialog
[13:01] <seb128> dednick, what are you trying to do?
[13:02] <dednick> seb128: just trying to get a handle on how the desktop handles shutdown vs phone.
[13:02] <bregma> I think there needs to be a breakout session on that in Malta
[13:02] <Saviq> +1
[13:03] <Saviq> and the whole desktop vs. phone session handling
[13:03] <bregma> amen
[13:03] <seb128> dednick, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-settings-daemon-team/unity-settings-daemon/trunk/view/head:/plugins/media-keys/gsd-media-keys-manager.c#L2505
[13:03] <Saviq> bregma, you're there second week I hope?
[13:03] <bregma> absolutely
[13:03] <seb128> Saviq, dednick, bregma: let's wait to have systemd in the picture to do session handling, no need to build more on upstart to replace that next cycle
[13:04] <Saviq> seb128, well, we need something working for this cycle ;)
[13:04] <Saviq> actually, for the last cycle!
[13:04] <seb128> dednick, in unity8 it's likely mir that should grab for those keys and call the handlers
[13:04] <mhr3> eek
[13:04] <seb128> Saviq, we have something working?
[13:04] <mhr3> don't turn mir into gsd :P
[13:05] <Saviq> seb128, shell, that si
[13:05] <Saviq> is
[13:05] <Saviq> mhr3, ↑
[13:05] <Saviq> not mir itself
[13:05] <bregma> I get the feeling mir is replacing more than X, it's replacing systemd too?
[13:05] <seb128> Saviq, mir/shell are the same thing to me :p
[13:05] <Saviq> seb128, well, they're not ;)
[13:05] <seb128> right
[13:05] <Cimi> cool guys
[13:05] <Saviq> seb128, what we have working is powerd shutting down after 5s or so
[13:05] <seb128> well, key grabbing is not going to be done by some 3rd party daemon
[13:05] <Saviq> seb128, but no way to show shutdown dialog et al
[13:05]  * bregma is going to start a rumour that Canonical wants to replace systemd with mir
[13:05] <Cimi> Saviq, 2
[13:05] <Cimi> I think
[13:05] <Cimi> :D
[13:05] <Saviq> Cimi, 2? feel short
[13:06] <Saviq> lol
[13:06] <seb128> Saviq, I was speaking about https://code.launchpad.net/~charlesk/indicator-session/lp-1296814-logout-using-unity-session/+merge/215487
[13:06] <Saviq> brb
[13:06] <Cimi> Saviq, http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~phablet-team/powerd/trunk/view/head:/src/powerd.cpp#L61
[13:06] <Saviq> seb128, well, yeah, that's short-term
[13:06] <Saviq> seb128, so that you can logout at all from unity8 preview
[13:06] <seb128> Saviq, k
[13:07] <seb128> but yeah, agree, that needs discussions
[13:07] <seb128> it's all work for you guys at the end
[13:07] <seb128> unity8 should do the grabbing
[13:08] <Saviq> indeed
[13:08] <seb128> Saviq, dednick, bregma: in fact the way keybindings work in trusty (iirc) is that the compiz grabs the keys and calls dbus methods, the actions are done by u-s-d
[13:08] <seb128> we did that the same way GNOME did with gnome-shell
[13:08] <seb128> it means g-s-d/u-s-d stop using xorg
[13:08] <seb128> they just provide dbus interfaces
[13:08] <seb128> the grabbing/callback being done by the shell
[13:09] <mhr3> oh yea, we really have unity-settings-daemon now
[13:09] <mhr3> when did that happen? :)
[13:10] <seb128> mhr3, this cycle, we also have unity-control-center
[13:10] <mhr3> seb128, fwiw me not noticing is a hat off to your work ;)
[13:10] <seb128> mhr3, ;-)
[13:12] <dednick> ok, well now that my head is sufficiently exploded. i shall get back to some real work
[13:14] <bregma> so, in Unity 7, compiz grabs the shutdown key, sends it to u-s-d, which calls indicator-session, which sends to Unity (in compiz), which puts up a dialog, eventually returning the result to indicator-session, which then tells u-s-d to tell logind to shut down?
[13:14] <bregma> is there an autopilot test for that?
[13:14] <seb128> lol
[13:15] <seb128> bregma, I'm not sure about the compiz->shutdown part, I don't think it gets back through u-s-d
[13:15] <seb128> u-s-d is what receives the dbus call from compiz and call the action
[13:15] <seb128> but the action then is directly going to the gnome-session dbus api (I think)
[13:15] <dednick> i vote for the unity8 -> logind option!
[13:15] <seb128> which calls logind
[13:15] <dednick> 2 steps... easy peazy
[13:16] <mardy> mhr3: hi! https://gitorious.org/meegotouch/meegotouch-applauncherd/source/8bbf9aea2586015eb7cdaa7f2d42b4f821b787cf:README
[13:16] <seb128> dednick, that's basically what we have today
[13:16] <seb128> dednick, you need steps in between because you need the session to be able to block logout if there is unsaved work
[13:16] <dednick> seb128: actually, today we have 1 step on phone i thin. powerd = god
[13:16] <mardy> mhr3: that was very smart, you could pre-init lots of different stuff very easily
[13:16] <seb128> dednick, right, which means "if you have unsaved work, sucks to be you"
[13:16] <dednick> seb128: yep :)
[13:17] <dednick> seb128: your fault for pressing power button!
[13:17] <bregma> dednick, I am thankful for that, since the power button tends to be the way to swicth apps much of the time
[13:17] <seb128> ;-)
[13:19] <mhr3> mardy, yea, so i implemented something similar
[13:19] <mhr3> mardy, i was focusing on qml, but pre-initing enough of qt is an issue
[13:20] <mhr3> mardy, basically you need qapplication for everything and you can't pre-init qapplication
[13:26] <mardy> mhr3: I got disconnected, I don't know what messages of mine went through, so I'll re-paste them:
[13:27] <mardy> 16:19 < mardy> mhr3: cool! BTW, also sailfish OS has something similar, let me find it...
[13:27] <mardy> 16:22 < mardy> mhr3: https://github.com/nemomobile/mapplauncherd and https://github.com/nemomobile/mapplauncherd-booster-qtcomponents
[13:27] <mardy> 16:23 < mardy> mhr3: the latter is a booster they use to preinitialize all the QML components of their toolkit
[13:36] <mhr3> mardy, hm, that is indeed interesting
[14:00] <paulliu> tsdgeos: hi. Your comment about the zooming doesn't work. Does it not zooming at all?
[14:01] <paulliu> tsdgeos: I have the zooming worked. But it is a bit strange on central points so I'm debugging it right now.
[14:02] <tsdgeos> paulliu: it did weird things
[14:02] <tsdgeos> mainly moving the image around
[14:02] <tsdgeos> maybe some zooming happened too
[14:02] <tsdgeos> but it was very easy to end up with the image not even visible
[14:03] <paulliu> tsdgeos: ok. Let me fix it a bit.
[14:45] <kgunn> bregma: do we need to have some sync time with dandrader|bbl today on bug 1307701
[14:46] <kgunn> so you can leave and enjoy time off
[14:49] <bregma> kgunn, yes sir
[14:51] <paulliu> tsdgeos: https://code.launchpad.net/~paulliu/unity8/zoomImage/+merge/207941
[14:51] <paulliu> tsdgeos: pushed. Should work now.
[14:51] <tsdgeos> paulliu: cool
[15:27] <sil2100> Trevinho: hello!
[15:28] <sil2100> Trevinho: are you around? I would have some questions regarding the locally integrated menus, and I think you were working on those?
[15:29] <sil2100> bregma: who would be the best person to ask about the local menus right now?
[15:30] <bregma> sil2100, Trevinho except he's off today
[15:30] <sil2100> Ah...
[15:30] <sil2100> bregma: thanks :)
[15:33] <Cimi> sil2100, it's national holiday in italy, I hope he is not around :)
[15:34] <Saviq> slackers
[15:36] <kgunn> just clear up any confusion...not a holiday in the US
[16:19] <dandrader> bregma, I'm back
[17:58] <mterry> kgunn: can you do me a favor and update silo 002?  I want to add lp:~mterry/lightdm/resettable to it (and once that is built, rebuild unity8)
[17:59] <kgunn> mterry: ack
[17:59] <mterry> kgunn, this will get us instant lockscreen!  (a couple small visual oddities right now, but those should go away with nonblocking Mir)
[18:00] <kgunn> yes!
[18:09] <kgunn> mterry: if you join #ubuntu-ci-choo-choo i added your name to get pung by the bot
[18:09] <mterry> kgunn, marked as auto-join now
[18:09] <kgunn> cool...
[18:09] <kgunn> it'll ping all 3 of us...
[18:10] <kgunn> i gotta go dark for a bit...saga of replacing the smashed window continues
[18:10] <kgunn> but i'll be off and on until ~4pm...then i get to go see Carmack talk
[18:12] <mterry> :)


[01:54] <jmholt> Hello are there any issues with updating?
[01:54] <jmholt> I am getting errors for the http://ppa.launchpad.net/michael-astrapi/
[01:54] <jmholt> server
[01:55] <holstein> jmholt: there are no specific issues with updating for upgrading.. will you have problems? you could, depending on the hardware you have
[01:55] <Unit193> You've added a PPA, then updated to a newer release, and the PPA doesn't publish for that release.
[01:55] <holstein> jmholt: ppa's are supported by the maintainers of the ppa's
[01:55] <Unit193> !ppa-purge
[01:55] <jmholt> ok thank you
[02:12] <jmholt> ok sorry guess I am a noob so I have run the command sudo ppa-purge ppa.launchpad.net Updating packages lists
[02:12] <jmholt> PPA to be removed: ppa.launchpad.net ppa
[02:12] <jmholt> Warning:  Could not find package list for PPA: ppa.launchpad.net ppa
[02:13] <jmholt> I have disabled ppa.launchpad.net/michael-astrapi/ppa/ubuntu saucy main (source code) when that is active is when I get the error
[02:21] <jmholt> any help would be great thanks
[02:43] <holstein> jmholt: what error?
[02:44] <holstein> jmholt: are you trying to update or upgrade?
[02:44] <jmholt> Update
[02:44] <holstein> jmholt: i suggest.. open a terminal, run "sudo apt-get update" and pastebin the error messages
[02:44] <holstein> !paste | jmholt
[02:46] <jmholt> running it now
[02:46] <jmholt> when I ran the gui end this was the error it gave me then
[02:46] <jmholt> :Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/michael-astrapi/ppa/ubuntu/dists/saucy/main/binary-amd64/Packages  404  Not Found
[02:46] <jmholt> , W:Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/michael-astrapi/ppa/ubuntu/dists/saucy/main/binary-i386/Packages  404  Not Found
[02:46] <jmholt> , E:Some index files failed to download. They have been ignored, or old ones used instead.
[02:46] <holstein> jmholt: so, thats the issue.. that PPA is not working
[02:46] <holstein> jmholt: its either down, or broken, .. could be temporary or permanent
[02:46] <jmholt> yeah and I can not figure out how to remove it. I disabled it is that ok?
[02:47] <holstein> jmholt: you can remove the broken/unsupported sources
[02:47] <Unit193> 404  Not Found = not for that release.
[02:47] <holstein> jmholt: you can look in synaptic under sources.. you can comment them out of the sources file
[02:48] <holstein> jmholt: you should try ppa-purge if you havent
[02:48] <jmholt> I have but I dont know the syntax exactly to use
[02:49] <jmholt> Im a newish user. Great on windows but inlight of Goverment over site want to move to open source
[02:49] <jmholt> lol
[02:51] <holstein> jmholt: should be "sudo ppa-purge ppa:michael-astrapi/ppa" if im reading it correctly
[02:51] <holstein> jmholt: if you are new, dont use ppa's
[02:52] <jmholt> I think it was for truecrypt
[02:52] <jmholt> tried as you said and this is the error I got
[02:52] <jmholt> jmholt@PcId10tLap:~$ sudo ppa-purge ppa:michael-astrapi/ppa
[02:52] <jmholt> [sudo] password for jmholt:
[02:52] <jmholt> Updating packages lists
[02:52] <jmholt> PPA to be removed: michael-astrapi ppa
[02:52] <jmholt> Warning:  Could not find package list for PPA: michael-astrapi ppa
[02:52] <holstein> jmholt: you dont need a PPA for truecrypt.. they offer a binary
[02:53] <jmholt> I did not see it in the store learning curve lol
[02:53] <holstein> jmholt: for something like truecrypt, you dont want (likely) to trust any random source for it
[02:54] <holstein> jmholt: ppa's are supported by the maintainers of the ppa's.. and what i mean by that is, they are not supported by ubuntu.. anyone can make them, and you click a warning to add them
[02:54] <holstein> jmholt: you should be able to fire up synaptic and click the the menu for viewing the "sources" and untick the box for the offending/broken source
[02:55] <holstein> jmholt: you'll want to get "sudo apt-get update" completing without error
[02:55] <jmholt> is that the gui end for the updater?
[02:55] <holstein> jmholt: is what?
[02:55] <holstein> !info synaptic
[02:55] <jmholt> synaptic
[02:56] <jmholt> nvm lol I am in it now
[02:56] <holstein> synaptic is a GUI package manager which has a clearly marked "sources" menu entry, which i mentioned above.. and a tick-box system, also referenced above, which will easily remove sources
[02:57] <holstein> jmholt: you need to remove the sources you added that are broken, and not officially supported
[02:57] <jmholt> ok
[03:00] <jmholt> removing truecrypt what is the best anti virus for linux? I know it is not needed as much as windows but just wondering
[03:01] <holstein> jmholt: "best" is always a matter of opinion and use case.. i dont use antivirus in linux.. i just use it as directed with proper permissions
[03:01] <holstein> !av
[03:02] <jmholt> I was not sure if that was still a fact. I know root kits derived from linux script. So thought I would double check.
[03:02] <holstein> should list what is available, or, in the synaptic package manager you can search "antivirus", or search using the package manager of your choice...
[03:03] <holstein> jmholt: you can have whatever "protection" you want, and if you give the machine permission to do something, it will do it
[03:04] <holstein> thats why antivirus hasnt really, and doesnt really address anything definitively about virus issues in windows
[03:05] <jmholt> right on I use bootable linux usb keys like trinity or web doctor on windows to flush it from time to time
[03:19] <jmholt> I have removed truecrypt and grub customizer and the dang thing is still in there lol I dont know what else it could have been
[03:20] <holstein> jmholt: you run the command i gave..
[03:21] <holstein> sudo apt-get update
[03:21] <jmholt> yeah it could not find it
[03:21] <holstein> then, you share errors in a pastebin
[03:21] <jmholt> oh that one let me run again
[03:21] <holstein> jmholt: what "it" couldnt find what?
[03:22] <jmholt> last t ime I ran the update command it ran fine but I have the ppa thing disabled on the gui side
[03:23] <holstein> jmholt: i asked you to disable the broken ppa's.. did you?
[03:23] <jmholt> yeah in the software updater
[03:23] <jmholt> could not find the thing in synaptic
[03:23] <holstein> jmholt: synaptic is not a "software updater".. its a package manager
[03:24] <holstein> jmholt: could not find what thing?
[03:24] <jmholt> I know that I disabled it in Software updater but could not find it in Synaptic
[03:24] <jmholt> no errors from sudo apt-get update
[03:25] <holstein> jmholt: please close all other package managers and "updaters" and please open a terminal.. and run ..
[03:25] <holstein> "sudo apt-get update"
[03:25] <holstein> !paste | jmholt
[03:25] <holstein> paste any errors. if there are none, let me know
[03:26] <jmholt> running now
[03:27] <jmholt> No errors
[03:27] <jmholt> Fetched 1,112 kB in 24s (46.2 kB/s)
[03:27] <jmholt> Reading package lists... Done
[03:27] <jmholt> jmholt@PcId10tLap:~$
[03:27] <holstein> jmholt: OK.. so, what are you trying to do? update?
[03:28] <holstein> if so, run "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" in the terminal, as you ran the other command
[03:30] <jmholt> no I was trying to remove that ppa from my computer that kept failing to update. tried terminal removal could not find it tried looking for it in synaptic could not find it so I just disabled it in the software updater. It is not part of ubutnu studio right
[03:31] <holstein> jmholt: ok.. so, the bad sources are disabled... enjoy!
[03:32] <jmholt> lol ok thank you for your time and patience
[03:32] <holstein> sure.. anytime
[11:50] <onaxis> how can i burn mp3 to audio cd wwith ubuntustudio 12.04?
[11:52] <cfhowlett> onaxis, multiple tools.  choose one.  brasero for example
[11:54] <onaxis> i ve tried but says that mp3's are not supported file on brasero
[11:55] <cfhowlett> onaxis, you need to install the codecs for .mp3
[11:55] <onaxis> same at the k3b
[11:55] <cfhowlett> onaxis, what ubuntu are you running?
[11:56] <onaxis> How can i do that?
[11:56] <onaxis> 12.04 ubuntustudio
[11:56] <cfhowlett> onaxis, sudo apt-get install xubuntu-restricted-extras will grab all the codecs you currrently lack - including .mp3
[11:57] <onaxis> thank you m8!
[11:57] <cfhowlett> onaxis, no problem
[12:01] <onaxis> terminal stucked on a user's agreement. how do i accept it?
[12:02] <onaxis> ok found it
[12:02] <cfhowlett> onaxis, :)
[12:02] <onaxis> new
[12:03] <cfhowlett> onaxis, I was THINKING that but didn't want to say it ... :)
[12:03] <onaxis> no probs man.
[12:04] <onaxis> worked!
[15:07] <onaxis> is there any way to update from ubuntu studio 12.04 to 13.10?
[16:43] <manoel> Pessoal, recebam meus agradecimentos por essa coisa tão boa chamada Ubuntu Studio! Especialmente ao seu criador!
[16:44] <holstein> !br
[16:44] <holstein> manoel: ^
[16:51] <manoel> Eu estou começando a usar este chat agora. Não faço ideia de como são feitasa as coisas por aqui. As regras e como fazer para notificar alguém.
[16:53] <holstein> as regras estão no tópico do canal
[16:53] <holstein> Eu não falam a sua língua
[16:54] <holstein> vou usar Traduz Google para shre o tema com você
[16:55] <manoel> Soryy I don't speach english
[16:55] <holstein> Bem-vindo ao canal de suporte Ubuntu Studio | 13.10 e 12.04.3 Now Lançado http://ubuntustudio.org/download | Fórum de suporte http://ubuntuforums.org | Por favor, seja paciente e visitar https://help.ubuntu.com/ comunidade / UbuntuStudio se ninguém está por perto | fazer música geral e estúdio conversa é permitido
[16:56] <holstein> o # ubuntu-br canal deve estar falando seu idioma
[16:56] <holstein> "/join #ubuntu-br"
[16:57] <manoel> Estou lendo em português do Brasil!
[16:58] <manoel> Mas receio que a tradução para inglês não seja tão boa
[17:57] <studio-user947> hello
[17:58] <holstein> o//


[23:56] <soundray> Roasted: in your original question you talked about a "system password". Didn't you mean "root"?
[23:56] <kj4> spook2012: i had problems with vista, but they are cured
[23:57] <Roasted> soundray - oh no, I meant my account password on the machine.
[23:57] <spook2012> problem whit grub
[23:57] <shaullx> thanks guys i will try
[23:57] <dhendrix> Roasted:  Oh, so you still have your root password in tact?
[23:57] <soundray> Roasted: okay, so the machine is up, you're logged in, but you don't know the current password?
[23:57] <mneptok> Roasted: boot to recovery mode and run "passwd $USERNAME"
[23:57] <TheFunkbomb> no ideas?
[23:58] <spook2012> but i think i solved now
[23:58] <Roasted> dhendrix - ah hah! But we're in Ubuntu land. The root account isnt even activated in the first place. ;)
[23:58] <kj4> spook2012: grub2 with karmic or the 'old grub'?
[23:58] <Roasted> soundray - I'm talking from the instance you boot up and your password doenst work, and from there you assume you've been hacked and you just need to reset it to get running again.
[23:58] <mneptok> Roasted: it's active, it just has a null password.
[23:58] <neip> Hello, Can someone help me compile gyachi I reached this step in install.txt  (./configure --disable-rpath --enable-maintainer-mode --prefix /usr) when I paste it.. it says please read INSTALL.txt... is there anything I should change?
[23:58] <spook2012> i erased all the parts windos
[23:58] <Mka> how to execute a command at a specific time?
[23:59] <steffan> neip: read INSTALL again
[23:59] <dhendrix> Roasted:  If you've been hacked, typically the solution is to blow everything away and start over since you can't trust the content of your system any longer. But that's another matter :-)
[23:59] <spook2012> 1 partition for winhose
[23:59] <mneptok> !cron > Mka
[23:59] <scunizi> Mka: use cron.. man cron in a terminal
[23:59] <soundray> Roasted: so you choose Recovery from the grub menu and run 'passwd roasted' from the root shell.
[23:59] <spook2012> and the rest for ubunto
[23:59] <Roasted> mneptok - but the big question is, if I cant log in to my account in the first ptlace, how do you enable the root account to even begin resetting passwords?
[23:59] <Mka> mneptok: not cron, I know that
[23:59] <steffan> Mka: 'at'
[23:59] <TheFunkbomb> goatse, please change your name
[23:59] <kj4> spook2012: that can be good and bad.  bad if you lost data.  good if M$ has been eliminated from your system.
[23:59] <mneptok> Roasted: i already told you how to reset the user password.
[23:59] <TheFunkbomb> even better
[23:59] <Roasted> mneptok - uh, you did?


[06:05] <Kilos> cremora minora
[06:31] <Kilos> Maaz, whats for breakfast
[06:31] <Maaz> Wheatbix today Kilos, and if you are still hungry maybe bacon and eggs.
[07:15] <SabreWolfy> Maaz, weather johannesburg
[07:15] <Maaz> SabreWolfy: Too many places match johannesburg: Johannesburg, California; Johannesburg, Michigan and Johannesburg, South Africa
[07:15] <SabreWolfy> Maaz, weather Johannesburg, South Africa
[07:15] <Maaz> SabreWolfy: In Johannesburg, South Africa at 9:00 AM SAST on December 28, 2013: 21°C; Humidity: 64%; Wind: NW at 13 km/h; Conditions: Scattered Clouds; Sunrise/set: 5:15 AM SAST/7:01 PM SAST; Moonrise/set: 1:27 AM SAST/2:52 PM SAST
[07:16] <SabreWolfy> Where does Maaz pull that from?
[07:17] <Kilos> Maaz, forecast johannesburg south africa
[07:17] <Maaz> Kilos: Thursday: Overcast. High: 24° C., Thursday Night: Mostly Cloudy. Low: 15° C., Friday: Mostly Cloudy. High: 24° C., Friday Night: Chance of a Thunderstorm. Low: 15° C., Saturday: Thunderstorm. High: 23° C., Saturday Night: Thunderstorm. Low: 16° C., Sunday: Thunderstorm. High: 18° C., Sunday Night: Chance of a Thunderstorm. Low: 15° C., Monday: Chance
[07:17] <Maaz> of a Thunderstorm. High: 19° C., Monday Night: Clear. Low: 14° C., Tuesday: Clear. Hi…
[07:17] <Kilos> hi SabreWolfy
[07:18] <Kilos> grund something
[07:19] <SabreWolfy> we got different repies Kilos
[07:19] <SabreWolfy> hi
[07:19] <Kilos> yes mine is a forecast
[07:20] <SabreWolfy> oh right d'oh
[07:20] <Kilos> sometimes maaz is sick with just weather
[07:20] <Kilos> hes an old bot
[07:21] <SabreWolfy> did someone write him for this channel only ?
[07:21] <Kilos> yes written by our guys
[07:21] <Kilos> the crash kid and i forget who else
[07:21] <Kilos> oh tumbleweed
[07:22] <Kilos> you can install ibid on ubuntu. written in python
[07:22] <Kilos> so if you have your own server you can install there
[07:22] <Kilos> free
[07:22] <Kilos> hehe
[07:23] <Kilos> Maaz, ibid channel
[07:23] <Maaz> irc://autumn.cpt.za.atrum.org
[07:28] <SabreWolfy> what is ibid ?
[07:37] <Kilos> thats the bot
[07:37] <Kilos> the actual app
[07:37] <Kilos> its in the repos
[07:39]  * georgl yawns
[07:39] <georgl> morning
[07:41] <Kilos> hi there georgl
[07:41] <georgl> morning Kilos
[07:42] <georgl> time to bounce spotty again
[07:42] <Kilos> haha for the tail?
[07:43] <georgl> yeah
[07:44] <georgl> spotty lost his tail
[07:44] <Kilos> i saw
[07:45] <Kilos> how do you do it?
[07:45] <Kilos> just nick change command
[07:45] <georgl> bounce hime
[07:45] <Kilos> i dont understand bounce
[07:45] <georgl> restart
[07:58] <Kilos> ohi superfly
[07:58] <Kilos> oh
[07:58] <superfly> hi Kilos, just passing by - grocery shopping time
[07:59] <Kilos> cool go safe
[07:59]  * Kilos waves at passers by
[08:53] <inetpro> good mornings
[08:53] <inetpro> oh and hi Kilos
[09:03] <Kilos> morning inetpro
[09:03] <Kilos> burning the remastersys dvd. 2g big
[09:03] <Kilos> using k3b of course
[09:22] <inetpro> sjoe, why so big?
[09:32] <inetpro> Kilos: where did you get remastersys?
[09:33] <inetpro> As of April 28th, 2013, the originator's direct development has ceased
[09:39] <Kilos> ya but i have it
[09:39] <Kilos> thats fully upgraded to this morning
[09:39] <Kilos> Maaz, google remastersys for 12.04
[09:39] <Maaz> Kilos: "How do I install remastersys? - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/133272/how-do-i-install-remastersys :: "Remastersys problem with Ubuntu 12.04 - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/142850/remastersys-problem-with-ubuntu-12-04 :: "Newest 'remastersys' Questions - Ask Ubuntu" http://askubuntu.com/questions/tagged/remastersys :: "Remastersys
[09:39] <Maaz> 3.0.4-1 for Ubuntu precise(12.04) and quantal(12.10 ..." http://ubuntuforums.org/showthre…
[09:40] <Kilos> i just made a custom iso so it will see whatever i had installed i think
[09:41] <Kilos> the backup iso woulda been bigger but then there is all the username passwd hassle
[09:41] <Kilos> so hopefully tango has min updating to do
[09:43] <Kilos> but i forgot to uninstall nvidia-173 first. sigh
[09:43] <Kilos> oh well i spose he can do it there
[09:46] <inetpro> hmm...
[09:46] <inetpro> thanks for the link
[09:52] <Kilos> np
[10:11] <Kilos> hard to believe im using something before you
[11:01] <Kilos> inetpro, thats a very kiff tool that. you can make a backup dvd and boot it from any pc and have your working os running there
[11:02] <Kilos> could be good for when a hdd crashes
[11:20] <Kilos> hi Vince-0
[11:21] <Vince-0> Haai Kilos
[11:26] <magespawn> afternoon all
[11:39] <Kilos> hi mage
[11:39] <Kilos> aw
[13:48] <Kilos> hmm...
[13:48] <Kilos> sure ive seen that nick before
[14:30] <Kilos> wbb after the storm
[14:42] <SabreWolfy> maaz forecast johannesburg south africa
[14:43] <Maaz> SabreWolfy: Friday: Mostly Cloudy. High: 24° C., Friday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 15° C., Saturday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 25° C., Saturday Night: Thunderstorm. Low: 15° C., Sunday: Thunderstorm. High: 20° C., Sunday Night: Rain. Low: 14° C., Monday: Chance of a Thunderstorm. High: 19° C., Monday Night: Overcast. Low: 14° C., Tuesday: Overcast.
[14:43] <Maaz> High: 23° C., Tuesday Night: Overcast. Low: 15° C., Wednesday: Chance of a Thunderstorm.…
[14:43] <magespawn> Maaz tell Kilos no problem, thats the way it goes
[14:43] <Maaz> magespawn: Okay, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[16:01]  * Kilos came again back
[16:11] <psychicist> welcome back Kilos
[16:12] <Kilos> ohi psychicist ty
[16:12] <Kilos> storm over
[17:39] <magespawn> good evening
[17:39] <Kilos> ohi magespawn
[17:39] <Kilos> at last i was here
[17:42] <magespawn> indeed
[17:48] <magespawn> so whats up?
[17:48] <Kilos> not much and there?
[17:49] <magespawn> not much, too hot for anything to be up really
[17:50] <Kilos> yeah you had a warm one there today
[17:50] <Kilos> just rained here so its cooled some
[17:52] <magespawn> busy educating myself
[17:55] <magespawn> watching dowloaded youtube videos
[17:55] <Kilos> in what?
[17:55] <magespawn> has cooled here some what, but no rain yet
[17:55] <magespawn> network mapping
[17:55] <Kilos> cool
[17:56] <Kilos> do you still do linux?
[17:56] <magespawn> yup, had a strange thing happen today at work, could not log into some devices other the network
[17:56] <Kilos> or fully windised
[17:56] <magespawn> yes of course
[17:56] <magespawn> s/other/over
[17:57] <Kilos> did you fing why not?
[17:57] <Kilos> find
[17:57] <magespawn> the phones are controlled by an asterisk server running on centos
[17:57] <magespawn> no not yet, it is a bit strange
[17:58] <magespawn> but will tackle it tomorrow
[17:58] <Kilos> why they chose centos
[17:58] <Kilos> is it a better server than ubuntu
[17:59] <superfly> Kilos: in some ways, yes
[17:59] <magespawn> well it is the community version of redhat, different i think, not better
[17:59] <Kilos> oh my
[17:59] <magespawn> it does not do as much for you automatically
[18:00] <Kilos> ah so you need to know more
[18:00] <magespawn> it is what the lpi101 and 102 is based on
[18:00] <Kilos> what ways superfly ?
[18:00] <magespawn> hey superfly
[18:03] <superfly> Kilos: it's the community version of Red Hat server
[18:03] <Kilos> ok
[18:03] <Kilos>   i didnt enjoy the rpm yum stuff
[18:03] <Kilos> too much more to learn
[18:03] <superfly> Kilos: Red Hat is the biggest commercial Linux distributor, and thus their version of Linux is enterprise ready and supposedly bullet proof
[18:03] <Kilos> aha
[18:04] <Kilos> thats what Squirm uses hey?
[18:04] <superfly> Kilos: if I was putting a server together for some medium sized business, I'd go straight to Centos
[18:04] <Kilos> sjoe
[18:05] <magespawn> some of the things that are handled by default in ubuntu are manual in centos
[18:06] <magespawn> in other words not as noob friendly
[18:07] <Kilos> ouch
[18:07] <Kilos> so you gonne be doing red hat courses soon
[18:08] <Kilos> i wonder what happened to that guy that said he was an expert in asterisk
[18:09] <magespawn> i have not been back to the channel lately
[18:09] <magespawn> well i figured i would do the lpi 101 and 102 first Kilos
[18:10] <Kilos> ive been here near all the time but i even forget who it was
[18:10] <magespawn> well i found him in #asterisk
[18:10] <Kilos> well as long as you start somewhere thats good mage
[18:10] <Kilos> tab as well
[18:10] <Kilos> that teaches you centos so its good
[18:20] <magespawn> superfly there are some funny/strange things on this network though and on that server in particular
[18:25] <magespawn> the asterisk server is set to run as the root user and does not start automatically on boot
[18:35] <superfly> magespawn: update-rc.d ?
[18:36] <magespawn> not sure what that does
[18:37] <magespawn> ah  i see
[18:38] <magespawn> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man8/update-rc.d.8.html
[18:41] <magespawn> perhaps more to the point http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/rhel5-update-rcd-command/
[18:48] <magespawn> superfly just another thing that I have not really had time for
[18:49] <superfly> magespawn: well if you want it to start on boot, then you'll likely need to use update-rc.d
[18:49] <superfly> magespawn: also, asterisk probably does need to run as root
[18:50] <magespawn> no it does not, it is recommended to create its own user account
[18:51] <magespawn> the previous IT person seems to have taken the shortest route to just about everything
[19:52] <magespawn> i am off to bed, good night all
[20:26] <inetpro> good evening
[20:26] <nlsthzn> indeed
[20:26] <Kilos> hi inetpro
[20:26] <inetpro> Kilos: you still awake at this hour?
[20:26] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn
[20:26] <inetpro> wb nlsthzn
[20:26] <nlsthzn> Greetings
[20:26] <Kilos> yeah had to wait for your replies
[20:26] <inetpro> Kilos: my replies?
[20:26] <inetpro> ai!
[20:26] <Kilos> scroll
[20:27] <Kilos> haha
[20:28] <inetpro> what did I miss?
[20:28] <Kilos> not much
[20:28] <Kilos> been quiet
[20:29] <inetpro> I missed mage[tab]
[20:29] <nlsthzn> https://archive.org/details/atari_2600_library
[20:29] <nlsthzn> brilliant\
[20:29] <nlsthzn> :D
[20:29] <Kilos> oh ya shame
[20:29] <nlsthzn> I had an atari 2600 when I was like 2 or 3 :p
[20:29] <inetpro> he been gone for like ever
[20:30] <inetpro> nlsthzn: you are way too old
[20:30] <Kilos> haha listen whos talking
[20:31] <nlsthzn> :p
[20:31] <nlsthzn> https://archive.org/stream/atari_2600_space_invaders_1980_atari_richard_maurer_-_sears_cx2632_-_49-75153/atari_2600_space_invaders_1980_atari_richard_maurer_-_sears_cx2632_-_49-75153.bin?module=atari2600&scale=2
[20:31] <nlsthzn> fave game in the world ever :p
[20:31] <inetpro> first pc I touched was a XT machine with a 10MB HDD
[20:31] <inetpro> in 1990
[20:32] <nlsthzn> well this wasn't a PC :p
[20:32] <Kilos> what was an xt, before a 386
[20:32] <inetpro> Kilos: yep, and before 286
[20:32] <Kilos> sjoe
[20:32] <Kilos> you old hey
[20:32] <inetpro> had like 64k ram I think
[20:33]  * inetpro didn't knoe about atari
[20:33] <inetpro> know as well
[20:33] <Kilos> oh  wait if i go back far. i had one that ran off that big floppy
[20:33] <Kilos> gave it to kids to play with
[20:33] <Kilos> that was bd
[20:34] <inetpro> I started after the punch cards
[20:34] <inetpro> still don't have a clue how those worked
[20:36] <Kilos> i didnt even enjoy games other than pinball
[20:36] <Kilos> other peeps played pacman and stuff
[20:37] <Kilos> im not a geek
[20:37] <Kilos> wasnt
[20:37] <Kilos> inetpro, did you get remastersys
[20:37] <nlsthzn> I played consoles but the first PC we owned was a 386... Super VGA baby :p
[20:37] <inetpro> i enjoyed a lot of pacman in the cafes in sunnyside
[20:37] <Kilos> i commented about that for you
[20:38] <Kilos> lol
[20:38] <inetpro> Kilos: oh noes, that is too much work for me
[20:38] <Kilos> no man its easy
[20:38]  * inetpro has no real need for it
[20:38] <Kilos> ai!
[20:39] <Kilos> if you go overseas you take a dvd with you then go to any internet cafe or library and run your working os
[20:40] <inetpro> why?
[20:40] <Kilos> to catch up with whatever you were doing
[20:40]  * inetpro don't go overseas
[20:41] <Kilos> or if your pc gets stolen you have your system on dvd
[20:41] <inetpro> all i need is another workstation or my mobile phone to connect to my servers via the net
[20:42] <Kilos> all your settings and accounts and everything
[20:42] <Kilos> sigh
[20:43] <Kilos> i spose its for peeps like me
[20:43] <inetpro> sorry oom
[20:43] <Kilos> one who thinks clouds bring rain not data
[20:43] <Kilos> never mind, ill get you back
[20:44] <inetpro> it's a cool tool nevertheless
[20:44] <Kilos> yeah i think so. pity it stops with 12.04
[20:44] <inetpro> just sad that it's not wel maintained and directly in the standard repos
[20:45] <Kilos> it doesnt need to be maintained it works
[20:45] <inetpro> haha
[20:45] <Kilos> maybe ported to later releases
[20:46] <Kilos> i got a 3.7g kde remastersys dvd
[20:46] <inetpro> even ibid needs a bit of maintenance
[20:46] <Kilos> not the new one
[20:46] <inetpro> ai!
[20:47] <Kilos> the weed has it working kiff
[20:47] <Kilos> yo tumbleweed hows things
[20:48] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[20:49] <Kilos> night inetpro !
[20:49] <inetpro> goeie nag oom
[20:59] <nlsthzn> https://archive.org/ must be one of the most awesome places in cyberspace