[03:20] <Viper550> I saw that Kubuntu Edgy Knot 3 is looking good
[05:15] <Who_> troy_s: you there?
[05:15] <troy_s> barely
[05:16] <troy_s> i am stretching the limits of my imagination to attempt and integrate what sabdfl likes
[05:16] <troy_s> into some form of a whole
[05:16] <troy_s> thus far it feels impossible :)
[05:16] <Who_> what does sabdfl like?
[05:16] <Who_> did yopu see tyhe GDMs I did today?
[05:17] <troy_s> yep
[05:17] <Who_> he seemed to like the logo and glosss style a whgile back - I don't know if his mind has changed
[05:17] <troy_s> he would hate them as a good guess
[05:17] <Who_> ...reasons?
[05:17] <troy_s> well the main problem _even_ if we were to say try something as simple as
[05:17] <troy_s> using the existing gdm
[05:17] <troy_s> flipping the curve on the lsplash (existing)
[05:18] <troy_s> and using the existing wallpaper from dapper (and fixing the god awful curve anomolies)
[05:18] <troy_s> is to find a palette in there
[05:18] <Who_> (we have the source from the lsplash?)
[05:18] <troy_s> and after having looked at about<PHONE_NUMBER> palettes over the past
[05:18] <Who_> there isn't one, all three use different colours
[05:18] <troy_s> few months
[05:18] <troy_s> yep
[05:18] <troy_s> there isn't even one that comes close
[05:18] <troy_s> there are many terrific palettes out there
[05:18] <troy_s> but for example
[05:18] <Who_> the palette I _like_ is the current GDM one
[05:18] <troy_s> the closest one i have found is
[05:19] <troy_s> one out of j. krause's palette index
[05:19] <troy_s> colour library
[05:19] <troy_s> but it has a few shortcomings when compared to the existing work
[05:19] <Who_> grr...can you give me some idea of what about the recent GDMs sabdfl would hate - if he's gonna have final say then there is no point in me doing stuff he won't like...
[05:20] <troy_s> further, i am pretty sure i can make something virtually identical to sabdfl's liking (aka leave gdm, twist lsplash (invert a curve so it matches folders at _least_)
[05:20] <troy_s> basically,
[05:20] <troy_s> he created the gdm
[05:20] <troy_s> so it will stay
[05:20] <troy_s> the _most_ we could hope for is to get a bloody palette in place in edgy
[05:20] <troy_s> if i had to bet
[05:20] <troy_s> but even then
[05:20] <troy_s> even _with_ a professional palette
[05:21] <troy_s> there is barely any way to build _anything_ into the mix that would be satisfactory to sabdfl.
[05:21] <Who_> my designs are so similar to his though, just with the style he chose ofr the Human icons applied...
[05:21] <troy_s> which ... makes it tricky to do anything.
[05:21] <Who_> troy_s: does he know what he is actually looking for?
[05:21] <Who_> or is he waiting to be 'hit'?
[05:21] <troy_s> i have no idea, but it isn't important.
[05:22] <troy_s> i think the problem is that everyone re
[05:22] <troy_s> _really_ underestimated our ponder phase
[05:22] <Who_> does he agree?
[05:22] <troy_s> ultimately, sabdfl appears to 'like' small tidbits
[05:22] <troy_s> but then frankensteining them together just doesn't work
[05:22] <troy_s> so it would involve some level of synthisis
[05:22] <Who_> but he likes 'polish'
[05:23] <troy_s> well polish
[05:23] <troy_s> is a general cohesiveness by tweaking elements
[05:23] <troy_s> given the sources to the three elements
[05:23] <troy_s> i can tell you that there is _zero_ way that i could achieve that with existing work.
[05:23] <Who_> I have been considering developing all aspects of the designs I have been doing, an lsplash similar, etc - but I think you are suggesting there is no point, right?
[05:24] <Who_> troy_s: I know! they are just totally incompatible, and it looks crap
[05:24] <troy_s> well
[05:24] <troy_s> crap is a strong term
[05:24] <troy_s> what we really need
[05:24] <troy_s> is to STRICTLY adhere to the system
[05:24] <Who_> okay, it looks far inferior to the cohesiveness of SUSE and Fedora....
[05:24] <troy_s> and get STEP by step evaluation
[05:24] <troy_s> yes
[05:24] <troy_s> but that is fundamental design principles
[05:25] <troy_s> very _simple_ principles
[05:25] <Who_> many, many reviews praised suse for being one of the first distros to 'lack duct tape'
[05:25] <troy_s> Pingunz -- who is 14 years old
[05:25] <Chipzz> hi
[05:25] <troy_s> hit the nail on the head with his estimation.
[05:25] <troy_s> hi chipzz
[05:25] <troy_s> with me who_?
[05:25] <Who_> troy_s: what estimation?
[05:25] <troy_s> and even then, as with aesop's work,
[05:25] <troy_s> there is _zero_ percent chance to come up with something that is acceptable to everyone
[05:26] <troy_s> so those constants we just need to accept
[05:26] <troy_s> brainstorming might help...
[05:26] <troy_s> but now, we are left with the teetering edge of bloody time
[05:26] <Who_> troy_s: apparently not on the PinunZ front...and you may have to point me to aesop's work, or tell me what it looked like...
[05:26] <troy_s> with very little helpful discussion along the path to build upon.
[05:26] <troy_s> um...
[05:26] <troy_s> aesop wrote a few fables... let me see if i can find the one
[05:26] <Who_> yea - I think what we need is more of the approval/guidance from sabdfl along the way, like you got from him part way through
[05:27] <Who_> ohhhh - I though you were talking about a member of the teram!!
[05:27] <Who_> hare and tortoise - I am familiar
[05:28] <Chipzz> where did /usr/share/pixmaps/grub/ubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz go?
[05:28] <troy_s> http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/prose/aesop63.htm
[05:28] <troy_s> uh in dapper chipzz
[05:28] <troy_s> ?
[05:28] <Chipzz> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_contents.pl?word=%2Fusr%2Fshare%2Fpixmaps%2Fgrub%2Fubuntu-artwork.xpm.gz&searchmode=searchfiles&case=insensitive&version=edgy&arch=i386 says it's in ubuntu-artwork
[05:28] <troy_s> who_ even with sabdfl's guidance
[05:28] <Chipzz> troy_s: no, edgy
[05:28] <troy_s> i just can't see anyone being exactly happy
[05:28] <Chipzz> but it is not
[05:29] <troy_s> chipzz -- don't know.  there was plenty discussion regarding pairing down all of the art / theme elements in edgy
[05:29] <troy_s> to get some space back
[05:29] <Chipzz> and this breaks my grub setup
[05:29] <troy_s> frank would probably be able to tell you quite off the top
[05:29] <Who_> troy_s: I don't care if I am personally happy with the work - that is what I do Blubuntu for - I want to see cohesivness and professioinality
[05:29] <Chipzz> yes the artwork package was split up
[05:29] <troy_s> who_ exactly
[05:29] <troy_s> but i fear that even with that modest goal
[05:29] <troy_s> it is almost impossible to achieve strictly trying to appease sabdfl.
[05:29] <Chipzz> I know that, all the packages the new package depends on were installed
[05:30] <Chipzz> but no grub artwork :S
[05:30] <troy_s> chipzz email frank
[05:30] <troy_s> who_ you with me?
[05:30] <Chipzz> troy_s: should I file a bug report alternatively?
[05:30] <troy_s> so here is the ultimate option:  deal with completely discreet components that are completely frankensteined together (as with dapper for example)
[05:30] <troy_s> chipzz start with frank
[05:31] <troy_s> chipzz he is the aic and has bzr access to fix that issue
[05:31] <Chipzz> troy_s: email?
[05:31] <troy_s> www.launchpad.net/people
[05:31] <Who_> troy_s: yes - I am becoming more sure that he either needs to: lead the group and guide us, or step back and let the person he chooses guide us and the direction
[05:31] <troy_s> do a search for frank schoep
[05:31] <troy_s> who_ well he will hire an art director
[05:31] <troy_s> but
[05:31] <troy_s> i don't think anyone will stick around too long
[05:32] <troy_s> factually speaking... the fundamental elements are very contradicting to integrate into a whole.
[05:32] <Who_> I think if they get space it would be pretty rewarding to work with the team
[05:32] <troy_s> i have tried _countless_ times to start at the gdm and work to a wallpaper
[05:32] <troy_s> but it is damn impossible.
[05:32] <troy_s> because coming from that gdm to a darker wallpaper
[05:32] <troy_s> for example
[05:32] <troy_s> the _only_ things that seemed to be even remotely positive
[05:32] <troy_s> in terms of reception from him
[05:32] <Who_> that is exactly how I got to the swirls (which make a good wallpaper, imo and imgfo... we've been using it)
[05:33] <troy_s> were two wallpapers that i knocked off attempting to use an identical palette from dapper
[05:33] <troy_s> and even the godawful composition
[05:33] <troy_s> which resulted in this obtuse looking thing that wasn't very ... good.  ;)
[05:33] <troy_s> alas, he seemed to gravitate to them...
[05:33] <troy_s> largely _probably_ because of the subconscious similarity to what is already present.
[05:34] <troy_s> lets see if i can dig up the comment on swirl.
[05:34] <Who_> yea...I'll put up something else I tried today
[05:34] <troy_s> well if it is gdm, don't bother.
[05:34] <troy_s> the only real way to get some element of change is to have someone with some credibility
[05:35] <troy_s> step up and offer an insightful review of the ubuntu look
[05:35] <troy_s> which probably won't happen
[05:35] <troy_s> it is visual musac
[05:35] <Who_> lol
[05:35] <troy_s> which is damn hard to design for when the framework for the musac is A) undefined B) all over the map C) subject to completely useless bikeshedding.
[05:36] <Who_> I think if Edgy isn't much better than Dapper then two things will happen) 1. the people of digg will wonder how a team that was producing lots of interesting work didn't get much of it in, and 2) some 'official' reviewers will point out the lack of coherence
[05:36] <troy_s> especially considering that research shows you are to treat a positive comment as 10x that of a negative
[05:36] <Who_> both of which may carry some weight
[05:36] <troy_s> hardly
[05:37] <Who_> you don't think cnet reviews that are not good will do anything?
[05:37] <troy_s> laf
[05:37] <troy_s> well... let knot3 die
[05:37] <troy_s> basically, pull all of the work and revert to dapper
[05:37] <troy_s> is about the best we can hope for
[05:38] <troy_s> well...
[05:38] <troy_s> again
[05:38] <troy_s> cnet reviews are great, but the bottom line is that it doesn't matter who you are ultimately trying to appease
[05:38] <Who_> troy_s: can you be any more clear on which elements of the recent GDMs you think sabdfl won't like - they are like the JMAK ones that he said were great, they are like the icons he likes...
[05:38] <troy_s> the structure is still missing
[05:38] <troy_s> who_ all of them
[05:39] <Who_> troy_s: oh dear :P
[05:39] <troy_s> if i were forced into a corner and _had_ to
[05:39] <troy_s> estimate on the sabdfl aesthetic
[05:39] <troy_s> i would say that
[05:39] <troy_s> A) he is against buttons
[05:39] <troy_s> B) he is pro monochromatic
[05:40] <troy_s> anyways... i must jet.
[05:46] <KurtKraut> troy_s, let me ask you something
[05:46] <KurtKraut> troy_s, the Edgy's design should please the community or the sabdfl personal taste ?
[05:46] <troy_s> kurtkraut -- either would work for me.
[05:46] <troy_s> but i fear ultimately neither.
[01:32] <nysosym> hi there
[01:32] <nysosym> any icon devs for edgy here?
[01:33] <andreasn> nysosym: hm, kind of
[01:33] <nysosym> hi kwwii_ :)
[01:33] <andreasn> nysosym: I have nothing with human to to, but I do stuff on tango and tangerine
[01:33] <kwwii> nysosym: howdy
[01:34] <andreasn> and g-i-t
[01:34] <nysosym> andreasn: good to know, but i have a "problem" with human icons
[01:35] <andreasn> nothing I can do then, sorry :(
[01:35] <kwwii> nysosym: send an email to the list
[01:37] <nysosym> kwwii: i will do that! :)
[04:31] <Viper550> I see we have some good comments on Knot 3
[04:31] <PingunZ> Viper550: Where ?
[04:32] <Viper550> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas-Feedback
[04:34] <PingunZ> My firefox totally crashes when I open that site, rofl
[04:38] <Viper550> You use KDE?
[04:41] <PingunZ> Nowp, gnome-freak :)
[04:41] <PingunZ> So it doesn't matter actually.. I can read it but my firefox looks horrible while opening the site
[04:41] <PingunZ> I'll upload the picture of firefox ;)
[04:42] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png kwwii, I made an even nicer new gradient!
[04:43] <PingunZ> http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=crashffob2.png :)
[04:43] <kwwii> Viper550: I am running to the store to get food for dinner, I will check it out when I get back, ok?
[04:43] <Viper550> okay, you get your good eats and we'll deliberate later!
[04:54] <Viper550> Sorting trash eh?
[04:56] <ryanakca> Viper550: found you :P
[04:58] <Viper550> hi
[04:59] <Viper550> I've decided to while I wait for Ubuntu Edgy to come out with my theme, to contribute to Kubuntu
[05:00] <ryanakca> :)
[05:00] <ryanakca> What to change... what to keep, etc
[05:00] <Viper550> You wanna try out my Crystal Overlay?
[05:01] <Viper550> p.s. Metabar whacking up APT is what caused me to switch to FC5
[05:01] <ryanakca> now that kubuntu is blueish purple... that mean's I'll have to change it though...
[05:01] <ryanakca> Viper550: crystal overlay... for...
[05:01] <effraie> Viper550: scuse me, i though i was on an other chan
[05:01] <Viper550> The window border
[05:02] <ryanakca> ah, in kubuntu?
[05:02] <Viper550> yeah
[05:02] <ryanakca> or ubuntu?
[05:02] <ryanakca> good, kubuntu, link?
[05:02] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7504_dualgradient.png
[05:03] <ryanakca> Am I supposed to see anything?
[05:03] <Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win
[05:03] <Viper550> It's transparent PNG
[05:03] <ryanakca> All I see is a blue background with a blue box
[05:03] <ryanakca> ah
[05:03] <ryanakca> How do I test it?
[05:04] <Viper550> Save it somewhere, go to System Settings/Control Center
[05:04] <Viper550> Go to Window Decorations, select Crystal, and go to the Overlay tab
[05:05] <ryanakca> yes, there
[05:05] <Viper550> how uber slow is it?
[05:05] <ryanakca> Active window? or Inactive Window
[05:06] <ryanakca> Viper550: takes about 10 seconds for kcontrol to load...
[05:06] <Viper550> Select userdefined, and use the fileselector to select your saved file ON BOTH SIDES
[05:06] <Viper550> (and I meant, how much memory do you have and such/such)
[05:06] <ryanakca> but then take into consideration that this is my Server & Desktop box...
[05:06] <ryanakca> Sysinfo for 'rkavanagh': Linux 2.6.17-7-386 running KDE 3.5.4, CPU: Pentium III (Coppermine) at 996 MHz (1995 bogomips), HD: 38/186GB, RAM: 370/375MB, 160 proc's, 1.17d up
[05:07] <Viper550> oh, mine, pretty close to that, Athlon TB, 2.6, KDE 3.5.3, 256 mb ram
[05:07] <ryanakca> I have apache + mysql + (too many apps to list)
[05:07] <Viper550> I'm not a server at least, takes about 3-5 seconds
[05:08] <ryanakca> If I killed some of them it would run much faster... and if I ran swapoff on my swap.. *gulp*... that's what's keeping it going... since 370/375mb of my ram is being used...
[05:09] <ryanakca> oooh, I like
[05:10] <Viper550> Nice? I'm waiting for kwwii's opinion
[05:11] <PingunZ> Viper550: <Viper550> PingunZ: Uslab=instant win -> ??
[05:12] <Viper550> Uslab=my mod of the Slab panel from SLED 10 to be more optimized for Ubuntu
[05:12] <ryanakca> very
[05:12] <ryanakca> brb, I'm going to go compare with default settings...
[05:12] <ryanakca> I still have the purple windecs for some reason...
[05:12] <PingunZ> Viper550: I hacked slab too :)
[05:12] <PingunZ> I'll post you a screenie :)
[05:12] <Viper550> Oh wait, you are the Gslab guy right?
[05:13] <PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3522&cat=500&ppuser=37394
[05:13] <PingunZ> Viper550: That's darkmatter :)
[05:13] <Viper550> nice, still!
[05:13] <PingunZ> Thanks
[05:13] <PingunZ> how does yours look like ?
[05:14] <Viper550> Oooh, Compiz...if only my Linux computer were powerful...my Main Windows computer can do Compiz (off that Live CD)
[05:14] <PingunZ> Eek, I haven't used windows in a few months :)
[05:14] <Viper550> My Linux compy is dual-boot, XP and FC5
[05:15] <PingunZ> It's not user-friendly enough for me -> Windows :)
[05:16] <Viper550> I'm also switching my friend to Dapper today, I hope she likes the brown...
[05:17] <PingunZ> Viper550: YOu're in the art team .. make her desky look nice :)
[05:17] <Viper550> I might give her a preview of Tropic
[05:18] <PingunZ> Viper550: I'm still waiting for a Usplab screenshot ;)
[05:18] <PingunZ> Show her some teams and then make her desktop look like it ;)
[05:19] <Viper550> Uslab isn't much, it just changes the icon and removes the integrating with Zen Updater
[05:20] <PingunZ> Screenie, screenie :)
[05:20] <PingunZ> Or you could send the source ..
[05:21] <Viper550> I'm not that much of a slab fan, it's not visually different, it's just what you have but without the mods to the actual menu
[05:22] <Viper550> And ryanacka, I have some other destined artwork that you can try, a new panel background! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Kubuntu-Edgy-Ideas?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg
[05:24] <ryanakca> *cough*
[05:24] <ryanakca> enough system crashes for the day :)
[05:24] <PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297
[05:25] <PingunZ> What a sweet wallpaper !
[05:26] <ryanakca> yeah
[08:37] <PingunZ> Hey, I'm trying to edit my gtk theme :) What's the name of gnome-panel ?
[08:39] <PingunZ> I'm using the Murrina engine btw
[08:39] <troy_s> PingunZ did ryanakca do the stone with the ubuntu logo imprinted on it?
[08:40] <PingunZ> troy_s: What do you mean ?
[08:40] <PingunZ> http://ubuntuforums.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2297 --> This wall ?
[08:40] <ryanakca> troy_s: no...
[09:20] <Viper550> Everyone's still here I see
[09:22] <Viper550> kwwii, you tried out my overlay?
[09:26] <kwwii> Viper550: doing so now
[09:26] <Viper550> Okay...
[09:28] <kwwii> Viper550: I do not like that the gradient ends at the bottom with a lighter color than the rest of the window frame, it looks like it is not part of it
[09:28] <Viper550> You mean the gloss?
[09:29] <kwwii> yepp...I made like 20 different ones, and although some of them look awesome, the make the title bar stand out from the rest of the frame
[09:30] <kwwii>  one second, I will show you
[09:30] <Viper550> Hmm, maybe I only need the top section...
[09:32] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png
[09:32] <kwwii> that about fits to your panel background
[09:32] <kwwii> but then I would have to chang the buttons
[09:32] <Viper550> 403'd
[09:33] <kwwii> oops
[09:33] <kwwii> ok, try again
[09:33] <Viper550> I remember that overlay
[09:33] <kwwii> that is in my screenshots
[09:34] <kwwii> perhaps I should work on the buttons, but people kinda liked the effect, so I would hate to change things around now
[09:34] <kwwii> perhaps we could try it though
[09:35] <Viper550> Just let me upload this improved version I made
[09:36] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7516_glossoverlay.png
[09:36] <kwwii> can you point me to your panel bg pic again? I lost it somewhere
[09:36] <Viper550> This one works alot better because it only skins the top, and it still gives the "doublegloss" effect on the buttons
[09:37] <Viper550> http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7517_glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg
[09:40] <Viper550> I actually kinda like the effect that your buttons have with an overlay of gloss, looks unique and fresh
[09:40] <kwwii> boah, something is totally broken on my edgy
[09:40] <kwwii> it cannot show any panel bg pics without messing things up
[09:40] <Viper550> uh oh, what happen? did someone set us up the bomb?
[09:40] <Viper550> Well, it was YOUR choice to use alpha software!
[09:41] <kwwii> ;-)
[09:41] <kwwii> no, it is my job
[09:42] <Viper550> I could make you a screenshot, I have different icons and wallpaper but it's close
[09:42] <kwwii> I got it working again
[09:42] <kwwii> had to restart kicker
[09:43] <Viper550> oh, never mind
[09:44] <kwwii> I think that that last version is way too light on top
[09:44] <kwwii> but the panel bg is right on
[09:44] <kwwii> perhaps we could use a window gradient like this
[09:44] <kwwii> have to see what people think
[09:45] <Viper550> I can adjust the overlay again
[09:46] <kwwii> http://bootsplash.org/windowdecotest2.png in the window deco overlays and http://bootsplash.org/glosspanel_kubuntu.jpg for the panel bg looks best to me
[09:46] <kwwii> yes,that is your panelbg
[09:46] <kwwii> :-)
[09:47] <kwwii> but with that I need to make the buttons not stick out so much
[09:47] <kwwii> make them look more like they are inside the glass
[09:51] <Viper550> But, the dark overlay kinda looks a bit...weird streaked inside the buttons
[09:52] <Viper550> That's why I used the white
[09:53] <Viper550> (updated) http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7518_glossoverlay.png
[09:55] <PingunZ> Wohoo, my edgy's look is finally done :) http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/39902155/
[09:58] <PingunZ> Comments are welcome.. Bah I stfu :)
[09:59] <Viper550> Awesome...
[09:59] <PingunZ> ty :)
[09:59] <PingunZ> I had a lot of work to make it look that way :)
[10:04] <Viper550> So kwwii, you like the new one?
[10:05] <kwwii> let me check it, one second
[10:07] <kwwii> hrm, it looks about the same as the last one
[10:08] <kwwii> the top part of my window deco is much lighter than the bottom
[10:08] <kwwii> not sure that I like that, sorry
[10:10] <Viper550> Wait, were there any changes to the actual color scheme? Also it's supposed to be like that, it's gloss!
[10:11] <kwwii>  yes, the color scheme was updated in knot3
[10:11] <kwwii> my point is that the effect is a bit too exagerated
[10:11] <kwwii> not bad or wrong, just too much for me
[10:12] <kwwii> then again, I have small screen on my test system
[10:12] <Viper550> Mine is 1280x1024, LCD
[10:12] <kwwii> I have a small but very good crt
[10:13] <Viper550> oh, 1024x768?
[10:13] <kwwii> yepp
[10:13] <PingunZ> Oh, I'm goin g for a 20.1 " 1600*1200 screen :)
[10:13] <kwwii> I will try it later on my big mac (when I can reboot into linux, working on cutting video now)
[10:13] <PingunZ> rofl @ big mac :)
[10:14] <Viper550> oh, no wonder! (think you could upload the new color scheme?)
[10:18] <Viper550> still there kwwii?
[10:19] <kwwii> yepp, just talking to my wife
[10:19] <Viper550> Some more adjustments... http://bay01.imagebay.com/bay.php?view=7519_glossoverlay.png
[10:20] <kwwii> Viper550: you'll find the new colorscheme in http://bootsplash.org/KnotImages_plus.tar.gz (among other things)
[10:31] <Viper550> Lookin' good
[10:36] <Viper550> Maybe I'll get some help from users...while you watch your blockbuster type video file


[00:07] <knome> Darth_Tux, no, the ntfs partition would still be broken if that is the case now.
[00:15] <knome> good night->
[02:53] <Nemo296> Hi
[02:54] <Nemo296> I need some advice for Xubuntu, I'm new to it.
[03:14] <ochosi> !hi
[03:33] <fabjoa_mwoz> hola
[03:34] <fabjoa_mwoz> my task list is invisible, any idea why?
[03:37] <fabjoa_mwoz> it's here, i can click on it but it doesnt show on the screen
[03:41] <fabjoa_mwoz> cool i found how to do it, i didnt know there was a restart panel function
[03:42] <fabjoa_mwoz> i love xubuntu
[04:35] <vn> heya, since I went from karmic to lucid, no sound..anyone can give me a lead on how to solve this problem?
[04:36] <likemindead> Possible answers here, vn -- http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1467251
[04:37] <vn> thanks
[04:54] <vn> remove purge and reinstall from that page did it, thanks!
[05:49] <razer> does anyone know how to get xfree86 keyboard shortcuts to work in xfce?
[08:06] <visitor1> , i installed xsane form the ubuntu package manager, but when i start xsane it says no devices avaiable but the scanner is connected and i can print with it
[08:06] <visitor1> hi people, need help to get a canon mp640 under xubuntu 10.04 working,i downloaded the latest sane from the sane webpage and i did ./configure, make,make install
[08:06] <visitor1> hi people, need help to get a canon mp640 under xubuntu 10.04 working,i downloaded the latest sane from the sane webpage and i did ./configure, make,make install
[08:06] <visitor1> , i installed xsane form the ubuntu package manager, but when i start xsane it says no devices avaiable but the scanner is connected and i can print with it
[08:48] <visitor1> any way to use single click on desktop?
[08:51] <well_laid_lawn> not afaik visitor1 ...
[08:54] <visitor1> i just changed to single click in thunar becuase of the bug but i cant change it for the desktop icons
[08:59] <TheSheep> visitor1: just put the launchers on your panel instead
[08:59] <TheSheep> visitor1: desktop should be clear anyways :)
[09:04] <well_laid_lawn> +1
[10:41] <frnknstn> What CD-burning program is recommended for use in xubuntu?
[10:43] <well_laid_lawn> !info xfburn
[10:44] <well_laid_lawn> frnknstn: I use k3b here myself
[10:44] <Psilocybin_Elf> I use gnomebaker...integrates nicely with Xubuntu
[10:45] <Psilocybin_Elf> It's gtk too
[10:46] <frnknstn> cool, thanks
[15:08] <slow-motion> hi
[15:33] <FFForever> Ello
[15:34] <FFForever> I enabled the nvidia driver from the restricted driver manager and for some reason it fails to load, any ideas on debugging it?
[15:35] <likemindead> Hmm...  :D
[16:01] <alexwizard> my computer: Duron 650, 256 RAM and i installed Xubuntu, but is too slow work
[16:02] <likemindead> Ah.
[16:02] <likemindead> antiX or CrunchBang would be my choice, then.
[16:03] <Sysi> !lubuntu
[16:33] <iamm> hello, i'm a semi-convert to linux just recently and i've managed to install xubuntu karmic on a lenovo s10-2, side by side with windows but having problems w/ the wifi driver
[16:33] <iamm> the ISO i've downloaded doesn't come w/ b43fwcutter or the bcmwl ?
[16:35] <schlaftier> iamm: could you open a terminal and run: lshw -C network
[16:35] <iamm> so instead i've downloaded  fwcutter but doesn't activate even w/ a restart. and the bcmwl kernel doesn't pursued to install giving me an error in downloading, but i've downloadd it from the repositories
[16:37] <iamm> i'm currently using the winxp here though... :/
[16:37] <schlaftier> ah I see
[16:37] <schlaftier> there are a couple of threads in the forums though
[16:37] <schlaftier> I just did a quick Google search and tons of pages turned up
[16:38] <schlaftier> for your specific hardware, there seems to be a workaround
[16:39] <iamm> yes i've checked, but those drivers same w/ xubuntu? doesn't seem to work on mine... as i've downloaded the 2 drivers like on above
[16:39] <iamm> one was installed but doesn't activate, and the other doesn't install at all...
[16:40] <schlaftier> There is no big difference between Ubuntu and Xubuntu, so anything that's not related to the interface should work on Xubuntu, too
[16:41] <schlaftier> maybe try asking in #ubuntu (more people there)
[16:41] <iamm> i see..
[16:41] <iamm> thanks for the infos
[16:49] <likemindead> I'd upgrade to 10.04 (Lucid Lynx), iamm. That alone may fix your issue.
[16:57] <iamm> okay i'll try thanks. could i possibly upgrade from the new ISO i've downloaded, through Update Manager?
[16:59] <likemindead> Yes.
[17:00] <likemindead> iamm: http://www.geekazine.com/news/franks-thoughts/upgrading-ubuntu-karmic-koala-to-lucid-lynx
[17:02] <iamm> thanks a lot
[17:02] <likemindead> Good too: http://qwertyweb.blogspot.com/2010/05/update-ubuntu-karmic-to-lucid.html
[17:05] <iamm> ah this is perfect, for offline upgrade :)  thanks thanks
[17:08] <likemindead> GIYF! :D
[18:19] <charlie-tca> http://elkbuntu.net/ubuntuwomen/ vote  for the world play day competition
[19:21] <MrNaz`> is there a basic calendar widget? you know like when you double click the system tray clock in windows?
[19:21] <MrNaz`> and cal in a terminal is a bit too basic
[19:22] <MrNaz`> i'd like to at least be able to flip back and forth between months
[19:25] <charlie-tca> MrNaz: yes, it is called orage and is in the menu applications -> Office -> Orage
[19:26] <charlie-tca> If you install 'orage clock' in the panel, you can click it to dropdown the monthly calendar, click again to disappear it
[19:27] <charlie-tca> I replace the existing panel clock with 'orage clock' here
[19:31] <schlaftier> I keep both and have the clock set to analogue and Orage shows the current date and weekday
[19:31] <schlaftier> charlie-tca: thanks for your comment on that bug report, I went back to the original repositories now
[19:32] <schlaftier> Can't say if it fixed the freeze for me, though. It still freezes but there might be some piece of exo lurking in RAM somewhere and I really can't reboot or log out right now.
[19:33] <charlie-tca> yup
[19:33] <charlie-tca> Keeping my fingers crossed. It worked well for me on both 32bit and 64bit
[19:34] <schlaftier> If not, I'll use the PPA again because that fixed it *and* added to Thunar's sidebar. (Just that minor exo-open issue)
[19:34] <charlie-tca> That will work, too
[19:37] <naxa> hi! ok, so the fireflies from xubuntu gdm artwork of karmid are gone in lucid. how can i get them back? ( 2) why on earth is that fascinating stuff is gone? )
[19:38] <charlie-tca> naxa: go back to karmic?
[19:38] <naxa> charlie-tca, no way!
[19:38] <naxa> I hate karmic anyways. if I go back that would be jaunty
[19:38] <charlie-tca> The applications used to boot changed, and the same splash screens were incompatible
[19:38] <charlie-tca> or at least, not able to be used
[19:39] <naxa> charlie-tca, but i thought karmic used the same gdm as lucid?
[19:39] <naxa> the big shift was between jaunty and karmic
[19:39] <charlie-tca> but lucid is using plymouth and xsplash instead of usplash
[19:39] <naxa> and exactly that's why i love jaunty and hate poor karmic :)
[19:39] <naxa> charlie-tca, well is that anything to do with the gdm?
[19:40] <charlie-tca> yes
[19:40] <naxa> i see
[19:40] <charlie-tca> it changes the interactions
[19:40] <naxa> were the fireflies gdm stuff?
[19:40] <naxa> or usplash?
[19:40] <charlie-tca> not sure
[19:40] <naxa> i think they were fascinating
[19:41] <naxa> anyway I think that it's a pain that the new gdm and new splash does not support the level of creativity the old ones do
[19:41] <ochosi> naxa, the fireflies were xsplash
[19:41] <naxa> ochosi, i see.
[19:42] <naxa> charlie-tca, ochosi in that case they could be used in lucid, too?
[19:42] <ochosi> i guess, if you really want an additional splash...
[19:43] <naxa> now where can I find the package? what is the name? :)
[19:43] <ochosi> xsplash?
[19:43] <naxa> well I guess it's something like xubuntu-artwork-xplash or something like this
[19:43] <naxa> s
[19:44] <naxa> yeah
[19:44] <naxa> any clue of why are they gone?
[19:44] <naxa> I would like to point out for somebody somewhere that I've found them fascinating and I miiss them a lot
[19:44] <knome> xsplash is not supposed to be installed by default in xubuntu
[19:45] <schlaftier> I loved the fireflies too and find it sad they're gone
[19:45] <schlaftier> But then again, I see the login screen rarely (all hibernate and suspend for me)
[19:46] <knome> the credits on the fireflies go to madsrh, http://anotherubuntu.blogspot.com/
[19:48] <naxa> schlaftier, well, one thing I don't accept is arguments like "oh it doesnt matter the user would rarely seen the login screen anyway" :)
[19:48] <naxa> knome, thanks for the information
[19:49] <naxa> schlaftier, I tend to think that the creativity of the members of the community is a big advantage of linux and open source stuff in general and that it should be taken seriously, not ripped off
[19:49] <schlaftier> naxa: That was not meant to be an argument. It was just to say that I, personally, can do without the fireflies
[19:49] <schlaftier> naxa: Would you please read my _first_ line too, instead of accusing me? I'm on _your_ side on this issue.
[19:50] <knome> :P
[19:50] <naxa> schlaftier, I see! and i didn't want to talk "against you", it's just you rang the bell and I started to talk in general
[19:50] <schlaftier> naxa: fair enough :)
[19:51] <schlaftier> I hope it's not too hard to get xsplash running again
[19:51] <naxa> schlaftier, sorry if this seemed like an attack
[19:51] <charlie-tca> knome: do you know if there is a way to replace the current splash screen with the karmic screen?
[19:51] <knome> charlie-tca, no, i don't
[19:51] <knome> charlie-tca, as said, the fireflies we're xsplash
[19:51] <knome> charlie-tca, and we're not using that anymore
[19:51] <schlaftier> naxa: No problem, I was just like "hey, fair point, but why is naxa talking to me personally" :)
[19:51] <naxa> also, I would like to communicate to the creators of xubuntu that we miss the fireflies... how can this be done?
[19:52] <charlie-tca> you have
[19:52] <naxa> schlaftier, yeah sorry. :D
[19:52] <knome> naxa, point taken. :)
[19:52] <naxa> charlie-tca, you mean it's just happened here right now?
[19:53] <charlie-tca> knome: can I pm you?
[19:53] <knome> naxa, yes he does
[19:53] <knome> charlie-tca, sure
[19:53] <charlie-tca> yes, naxa
[19:53] <naxa> charlie-tca, knome great! i am happy! :)
[19:55] <charlie-tca> knome: pm me
[20:06] <plouffe> does xubuntu have the same grub problems as ubuntu, with people not being able to boot after the upgrade to 10.04
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Depends on what you mean, exactly. Upgrading from Ubuntu/xubuntu 9.10 to 10.04 should not be a problem
[20:07] <charlie-tca> Upgrading in windows seems to be different
[20:08] <charlie-tca> Windows dual boot may have issues, yes
[20:08] <naxa> i upgraded from 9.10 to 10.04 and there was no problem. I already used grub2 (or whatever, the new grub) in 9.10
[20:09] <plouffe> so it only happens when it switches  to a new grub?
[20:09] <naxa> well I do remember that in 9.10 getting grub2 done wasn't that trivial, maybe
[20:09] <naxa> but I can't really reacall
[20:09] <charlie-tca> no, it happens if you have windows installed
[20:10] <plouffe> how can I check my grub version?
[20:10] <plouffe> charlie-tca, are you saying that if I have a dualboot, I will have that same problem with every upgrade?
[20:10] <charlie-tca> do you get a menu when booting?
[20:10] <naxa> plouffe, it seems (charlie-tca tells that) it's nothing to do with the grub version. sorry, I think I've just mislead you. listen to charlie-tca he is far more experienced than I am :)
[20:11] <plouffe> charlie-tca, ,  I do get a menu now. I did   fresh install of xubuntu 9.10 recently
[20:11] <charlie-tca> plouffe: no, I am saying that at this time, there seems to be a problem with upgrading when dual booting windows
[20:12] <charlie-tca> If you get a menu, it should have a line like "menu version 1.97~" or so across the top
[20:13] <naxa> charlie-tca, what about "sudo grub-setup --version"
[20:13] <charlie-tca> sure, if it works. I am by no means an expert on these things
[20:13] <plouffe> 1.97~beta4
[20:13] <plouffe> so not grub2 yet?
[20:14] <naxa> charlie-tca, well i don't know if it tells the truth but mine is 1.98-1ubuntu6
[20:14] <naxa> hm but I'm pretty sure i did installed the grub2. hm
[20:14] <charlie-tca> plouffe: you are on 9.10, right? naxa: you are on 10.04?
[20:14] <naxa> charlie-tca, it's 10.04 here, yes
[20:14] <plouffe> charlie-tca,  yes 9.10
[20:14] <charlie-tca> Both are grub2
[20:15] <naxa> ok
[20:15] <naxa> misleadinf the version info it is
[20:15] <naxa> g
[20:15] <charlie-tca> plouffe: I can't find the bug right now, on the upgrade when dual booting
[20:15] <plouffe> charlie-tca, but there would still be problems with the upgrade? It took me one day to boot back into ubuntu after upgrading to 9.10
[20:16] <charlie-tca> Those without windows don't seem to be affected, other than the ubuntu desktop / kubuntu desktop / xubuntu desktop installed bug
[20:16] <plouffe> but since I've installed xubuntu a lot of my problems (sound, wifi, etc) disappeared
[20:16] <charlie-tca> Some people with windows dual boot have reported issues upgrading to 10.04
[20:18] <naxa> plouffe, I don't know if it is possible with you but I tend to think that it's better to keep a "test-ubuntu" on the computer and first try every upgrade on the test-ubuntu
[20:18] <naxa> so i mean I prefer if one has two ubuntus, one for daily life and one for testing
[20:19] <charlie-tca> there will be a ubuntu 10.04.1 also, in about 4 months
[20:19] <charlie-tca> That will probably have the issues seen now fixed
[20:22] <naxa> well it's the same with windows with me. I tend to think there is no need to hastle into the new version. better try it on another partition first...
[20:23] <naxa> i ended up with ubuntu 10.04 and winxp dual booting
[20:24] <naxa> by hastle i mean "rush" :)
[20:49] <edakiri> Why might it be that I have no 'suspend' or 'hibernate' option in power manager?  Something need to be installed?
[20:52] <naxa> (i don't know:( )
[20:55] <charlie-tca> edakiri: how many channels are you asking in?
[20:56] <edakiri> 2.  Am I forgetting any?  I should have asked in this one first, but it did not occur to me until I already asked in #XFCE.
[20:56] <charlie-tca> If you ask in more than one at time, you could get banned...
[20:57] <edakiri> They are both relevant channels.  If I don't get an answer, it's not redundant.
[20:57] <edakiri> though this channel is more relevant, i think
[20:57] <charlie-tca> I don't really know anything about suspend and hibernate, unfortunately. Please be patient, there are many people here that may know.
[20:58] <charlie-tca> What version of xubuntu are you using/
[20:58] <charlie-tca> ?
[20:58] <edakiri> 10.04 : LL
[20:59] <charlie-tca> check if power manager is installed - apt-cache policy xfce4-power-manager
[20:59] <charlie-tca> also, do you have gnome-power-manager installed? If so, it may be a conflict
[21:04] <edakiri> xfce4-power-manager is installed and gnome-power-manager not.
[21:04] <mr_pouit> which version?
[21:05] <edakiri> <IP_ADDRESS>-1ubuntu5
[21:06] <edakiri> I  have acpi-support and pm-utils installed.  Could that be a conflict?
[21:07] <mr_pouit> might be a permission problem, with consolekit
[21:26] <naxa> bye
[21:27] <knome> FFForever, please do not use awaynicks
[21:34] <FFForever> knome, :( ok ill update znc later
[21:34] <FFForever> (before I dc)
[21:34] <knome> FFForever, cheers. have a nice day! :)


[00:13] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, hey
[00:14] <jasoncwarner_> robert_ancell: hey
[00:14] <jasoncwarner_> getting ready for holiday? long flight to EU?
[00:14] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, sure am.  Haven't heard of any LightDM issues?
[00:15] <jasoncwarner_> I haven't heard anything yet.
[00:18] <robert_ancell> jasoncwarner_, yes, paris first, then berlin, then switzerland before heading back
[00:19] <RAOF> Awesome.  Sounds fun!
[01:21] <TheMuso> Discovering gsettings schemas and keys from the command-line is much easier than it was with gconf.
[02:29] <jbicha> kenvandine: why does gwibber depend on gir1.2-wnck-1.0 instead of gir1.2-wnck-3.0?
[02:29] <kenvandine> gwibber-accounts is still gtk2
[02:29] <kenvandine> and it is python
[02:29] <kenvandine> so to drop the python-wnck dep
[02:30] <kenvandine> i ported it to use wnck-1.0 via gir
[02:31] <jbicha> oh ok, gwibber is part gtk2 and part gtk3 now, right?
[02:31] <AfC> that's um ... not supported
[02:31] <kenvandine> well, the gwibber client is pure gtk3
[02:31] <kenvandine> but gwibber-accounts is a different executable
[02:32] <kenvandine> that is much harder to port, all the service plugins include their bits of pygtk that get embedded in the accounts dialog
[02:32] <kenvandine> i would love to find a volunteer to do that though :)
[02:32] <kenvandine> or i'll get to it for 3.4 :)
[03:35] <micahg> dist-upgrade for lightdm still a no go, the old greeter is removed, but the new one isn't installed
[03:38]  * micahg thinks this is a bug in apt
[03:46] <RAOF> Bah!  At what point did dkms become so frustratingly silent?  No logs, no console output, no --verbose option.
[03:52]  * micahg is testing a lightdm fix
[04:06]  * micahg gives up and leaves it for someone else
[04:09]  * micahg guesses transitional packages are the way to go here
[04:22] <micahg> wow, even transitional packages didn't work...
[04:37] <RAOF> Argh.  What the dizzying dkms?
[04:38] <RAOF> Ah.  When you say a parameter is optional you are in fact lying through your teeth.  Got it.
[04:44] <TheMuso> lol
[05:03] <RAOF> Aha.  bug #812979 is the nvidia problem.
[05:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 812979 in dkms "Kernel modules are not built when the kernel is upgraded" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/812979
[05:53] <didrocks> good morning
[05:53] <didrocks> hum, spent 30 minutes fighting with lightdm
[06:05] <TheMuso> didrocks: Morning.
[06:05] <didrocks> hey TheMuso!
[06:16]  * didrocks reboots
[06:25] <didrocks> ok, works now :)
[06:29] <desrt> good morning, all
[06:31] <didrocks> hey desrt!
[06:31] <desrt> hi didrocks
[06:38] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[06:39] <RAOF> Morning chrisccoulson
[06:39] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson
[06:40] <chrisccoulson> hi RAOF, didrocks
[07:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: btw, if you need testing of the cache fix patch, I have it reliably at every start if I don't use the magical option
[07:06] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, it's definitely the same error in the error console?
[07:06] <didrocks> I can check again, didn't look today
[07:06] <didrocks> uno momento
[07:06] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[07:08] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: tree is undefined …folderPane.js 889
[07:08] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[07:08] <didrocks> yw :)
[07:47] <BigWhale> Good Morning.
[07:49] <Sweetshark> RAOF: hmmm, debian also has a dep on cli-common-dev (one thing it uses from there is /usr/bin/al)
[07:49]  * Sweetshark tries another build
[07:49] <Sweetshark> Morning all!
[07:57] <seb128> hey
[08:04] <oier> good morning
[08:05] <oier> is anybody up for reviewing indicator-bug?
[08:06] <oier> it's a python indicator which  displays bugs for a certain project in a indicator and it regularly polls Launchpad to notify the user when there are new bugs that match the defined settings
[08:06] <xclaesse> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[08:06] <xclaesse>  x264 : Depends: libswscale1 (>= 4:0.7~~) but it is not going to be installed or
[08:06] <xclaesse>                  libswscale-extra-1 (>= 4:0.7~~) but it is not going to be installed
[08:06] <oier> I already have an advocate and I am looking for a second one
[08:07] <oier> http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=9151
[08:07] <oier> dholbach told me that he found it very easy to review, so it should not take much time away
[08:08] <oier> I would be very grateful for your help
[08:16] <seb128> hey oier, will try to have it reviewed today
[08:16] <seb128> it would probably work better with a bug with ubuntu-sponsors subscribed though
[08:17] <seb128> not sure many people check on what is on revu otherwise
[08:17] <seb128> xclaesse, what ubuntu version? what command do you run?
[08:17] <xclaesse> seb128, oneiric
[08:17] <xclaesse> seb128, sudo apt-get install x264
[08:18] <xclaesse> seb128, did upgrade from natty to oneiric and I can't read x264 videos anymore
[08:18] <oier> thanks seb128, you mean I should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors on the needes packaging bug (#811837)?
[08:18] <seb128> xclaesse, there is a x264 transition it seems, should be sorted later today, wrong timing
[08:19] <seb128> oier, yes, so it would show up on http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[08:19] <seb128> oier, which is what people check usually
[08:19] <xclaesse> seb128, ok, just wanted to be sure the issue is known :)
[08:19] <xclaesse> thanks
[08:19] <seb128> yw
[08:19] <oier> so should I paste the revu link on the launchpad bug?
[08:20] <seb128> oier, yes
[08:20] <oier> ok
[08:20] <oier> good to know
[08:20] <seb128> oier, sorry it took a while, better to make sure it shows on the sponsoring list if you want some reviews usually
[08:20] <seb128> not sure who still use REVU nowadays
[08:21] <seb128> that's probably a workflow we should fix
[08:21] <oier> I read on the guide that that is how you are supposed to get new packages which aren't in debian
[08:21] <seb128> oier, yeah sorry about that
[08:22] <seb128> different people in Ubuntu have different opinions and workflow
[08:22] <seb128> I will check if REVU still has active reviewers
[08:22] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[08:22] <seb128> but in doubt it doesn't hurt to do what you just did now
[08:22] <seb128> i.e add a bug with sponsors and an url to the REVU
[08:22] <seb128> so it shows up on both places
[08:22] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, I'm fine thanks, how are you?
[08:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks
[08:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you daughter let you sleep this night?
[08:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, she slept all the way through :)
[08:23] <seb128> great! ;-)
[08:24] <seb128> hey rodrigo_
[08:24] <rodrigo_> morning
[08:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, I've bugs for you!!!
[08:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, joking, don't run away ;-)
[08:24] <seb128> rodrigo_, how are you?
[08:25]  * rodrigo_ runs
[08:25] <jbicha> rodrigo_: howdy
[08:25] <rodrigo_> seb128, I'm fine and you?
[08:25] <rodrigo_> hey jbicha
[08:25] <seb128> hey jbicha!
[08:25] <seb128> rodrigo_, I'm great thanks
[08:25] <oier> seb128, one more questions. Once my package is in universe, how do I update it when there are new ubuntu releases? do I have to upload a new version to revu again?
[08:26] <geser> oier: no, just open a sponsoring request
[08:26] <seb128> hey geser
[08:26] <seb128> geser, do you know if REVU is still used?
[08:27] <jbicha> rodrigo_: what do you think about adding gnome-tweak-tool as one of your System Settings stub launchers?
[08:27] <seb128> oier, what geser said, either do a merge request or open a bug with the update and subscribe sponsors
[08:27] <rodrigo_> jbicha, hmm, not sure
[08:28] <geser> seb128: hi, I guess not much if at all as we try to push people to get their package into Debian (and sync later)
[08:29] <rodrigo_> jbicha, but I guess we could do it
[08:29] <seb128> geser, should we just move new packages to use the normal sponsoring process?
[08:29] <oier> ok, but when I open a bug and subscribe sponsors I just link to where the source is. Is the usual proceedure to attach the orig.tar.gz file to the bug?
[08:29] <rodrigo_> jbicha, we've already "broken" the shell, so one more is ok :)
[08:29] <Sweetshark> RAOF: I have now mono-devel and libmono-2.0-dev installed, hack a call to mkbundle2 to call mkbundle, and the pkg-config call in configure to check module mono-2 instead of mono, sprinkled in some glib2 cflags here and there, but I still get an error:
[08:30] <seb128> oier, the easier is to have a watch file pointing to your tarball and do a merge request on lp:ubuntu/source with the update
[08:30] <rodrigo_> seb128, did the grepping for g-p-m bus service end?
[08:30] <seb128> rodrigo_, "sort of", I went to bed before it was done and since I forget to start a screen I stopped it, I got it running again now though
[08:31] <RAOF> Sweetshark: Hurray?
[08:32] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, let me know when it's done, I'd like to upload any needed package today, as tomorrow I'll be on vacation :)
[08:32] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok
[08:32] <Sweetshark> RAOF: yeah, right.
[08:32]  * Sweetshark tries to get a clean build
[08:33] <geser> seb128: I've no real idea about this yet. Not sure if using the normal sponsoring process will work out or if it will only clog the sponsoring queue. Part of the REVU problem is that many packagers vanish once their package is in the archive and those packages bit-rod till they get removed years later.
[08:34] <RAOF> Sweetshark: You haven't posted the error message yet.  Do you want me to have a quick gander?
[08:34] <seb128> RAOF, hey
[08:34] <RAOF> seb128: Ho!
[08:34] <seb128> RAOF, how is colord packaging going?
[08:34] <RAOF> seb128: It's done; it needs only a sponsor.
[08:34] <seb128> RAOF, having it in and mir-ed before ff would be nice
[08:35] <seb128> RAOF, oh, where is it?
[08:35] <Sweetshark> RAOF: I want to try it from a mostly clean build. hang on a sec
[08:35] <seb128> RAOF, you should subscribe ubuntu-sponsors...wait you are not motu?
[08:35] <RAOF> seb128: http://anonscm.debian.org/gitweb/?p=collab-maint/colord.git
[08:35] <seb128> RAOF, oh, you want it in debian
[08:35] <RAOF> Yah.
[08:35] <RAOF> Well, and I need a reviewer before uploading to Ubuntu to match our policy anyway.
[08:36] <RAOF> So they might as well also be a DD :).
[08:36] <seb128> RAOF, did you do any pinging around on the debian side?
[08:36] <RAOF> I've done a little, but not a great deal.
[08:36] <seb128> k
[08:36] <seb128> I will ping the #debian-gnome guys
[08:37] <seb128> do you have an itp bug or something?
[08:37] <RAOF> I find getting stuff sponsored in Debian frustrating, so there's a high activation energy :(
[08:37] <seb128> yeah, that's what I don't agree with geser and others
[08:38] <seb128> trying to push people to get their stuff in Debian is just pushing them in a wall that they will hit, which leads to frustrations and contributors running away
[08:38] <RAOF> It depends greatly on what you're pushing, I find.
[08:39] <RAOF> If there's an amenable team, then great - debian-x and pkg-cli-* are both welcoming and easy to deal with.
[08:39] <seb128> I'm not going to be popular with this one but I think we should stop trying to get new softwares in universe or in the archive
[08:39] <seb128> we should let people maintain their softwares in a ppa and make it easy to search in ppa from the packaging tools
[08:39] <seb128> well for things like this one which are a desktop component will still need to them in though
[08:40] <RAOF> I broadly agree with you.  I think we'd need make it possible to trust PPAs a little more first, though.
[08:40] <seb128> RAOF, yeah, pkg-gnome is fine as well
[08:40] <seb128> RAOF, well ppa combined with rating and reviews get you somewhat the "trust" level
[08:41] <jbicha> seb128: the ITP is http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=633518
[08:41] <ubot2> Debian bug 633518 in wnpp "ITP: colord -- system service to manage device colour profiles" [Wishlist,Open]
[08:41] <RAOF> Some way of blessing “project PPAs’ would be good.
[08:41] <seb128> jbicha, thanks
[08:41] <RAOF> jbicha: Thanks.  wnpp takes *ages* to come up here!
[08:41] <seb128> RAOF, well then you are back at the issue of having a board needing to do review and approval work
[08:41] <jbicha> it was in my Firefox history so it was easy
[08:41] <geser> seb128: I agree with you, most of the packages on REVU could easily use a PPA instead. And only packages with a team who cares about them (e.g. kubuntu or ubuntu-desktop) should be added to the archive directly
[08:42] <didrocks> seb128: seems your idea is more popular that you initialy thought then! :)
[08:42] <seb128> didrocks, ;-)
[08:42] <jbicha> people get all sorts of confused when they try to upgrade with PPAs though
[08:42] <RAOF> seb128: Well, not necessarily - it's already very nearly possible with existing Launchpad infrastructure.
[08:42] <RAOF> I mean, for projects hosted on Launchpad, at least.
[08:42] <seb128> RAOF, I've pointed #debian-gnome to the itp and vcs, let's see if somebody picks it
[08:43] <didrocks> jbicha: we need to make that easier for upstream then
[08:43] <didrocks> oh, you mean, upgrade
[08:43] <seb128> jbicha, why?
[08:43] <didrocks> indeed
[08:43] <seb128> because update-manager disable the ppas?
[08:44] <didrocks> and we are not sure there is a build under the next ubuntu release pocket
[08:44] <didrocks> (but ppa could maybe automatically rebuild when a new version is out?)
[08:44] <seb128> jbicha, why does libcryptui needs a mir? what in main is using it?
[08:44] <seb128> didrocks, we don't do rebuilds in the archive either
[08:44] <didrocks> or copy :)
[08:44] <RAOF> didrocks: Or update manager could check whether the PPAs have an upgrade path.
[08:44] <didrocks> just makes then available
[08:44] <seb128> didrocks, we clone the archive when a new serie open
[08:44] <didrocks> them*
[08:44] <jbicha> and then we get solutions like this one: https://lkubuntu.wordpress.com/2011/06/27/easy-way-to-remove-404-messages-on-apt-get-update/
[08:45] <seb128> urg
[08:45] <jbicha> seb128: seahorse depends on that library (or ought to)
[08:45] <seb128> jbicha, no it doesn't
[08:45] <seb128> hum
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i'm not sure how i can make thunderbird get focus when you click on it in the messaging menu :/
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> we seem to be a little screwed by internal API limitations
[08:46] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: That's it.  Time to drop thunderbird for evolution! :D
[08:46] <chrisccoulson> lol
[08:47] <seb128> we would win calendar integration for free!
[08:47] <jbicha> seb128: hmm, let me check then
[08:47] <RAOF> Thinking of MIRs - could I get the wayland protocol MIR bumped up?  I'd like to enable support in mesa in the rc3 upload, which will hopefully be soon (whenever upstream gets their git in order).
[08:47] <seb128> RAOF, speaking of wayland does it still need cairo-gl?
[08:48] <Sweetshark> RAOF: http://pastebin.com/2zLvuybV
[08:48] <seb128> RAOF, I will give a nudge to mterry to see if he can get the wayland mir ball rolling
[08:48] <RAOF> seb128: Yes and no.  The wayland server library itself never did, but the demo-compositor does.  There's now a non-cairo-gl demo compositor, so it's not as much of an issue.
[08:49] <RAOF> seb128: In short - turn off cairo-gl support whenever you want to.
[08:49] <seb128> ok
[08:49] <seb128> RAOF, if we don't solve the nvidia issue we will have to again for oneiric
[08:49] <seb128> rodrigo_,
[08:49] <seb128> ./update-manager-0.152.7/DistUpgrade/utils.py:  Send a dbus signal to org.gnome.PowerManager to not suspend
[08:49] <jbicha> seb128: ok, maybe it doesn't need libcryptui, the commit message & NEWS is ambiguous
[08:49] <seb128> rodrigo_, that's the first match out of gnome-control-center that you didn't update it
[08:50] <seb128> jbicha, well, I built the new seahorse there, uploaded and it built on the buildds
[08:50] <seb128> jbicha, so I'm pretty confident it doesn't need the lib ;-)
[08:50] <RAOF> seb128: Right.  At some point we'll want this to be fixed; we can only kick that can down the road for so long.
[08:51] <seb128> RAOF, right, well I'm just saying
[08:52] <jbicha> seb128: ok, I guess it's only seahorse-plugins that depends on it, but seahorse-plugins is in main
[08:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, working on it
[08:52] <seb128> jbicha, isn't seahorse-plugins deprecated?
[08:52] <seb128> rodrigo_, do a merge request for mvo I'm sure he will happily review it
[08:52] <rodrigo_> seb128, yeah :)
[08:53] <RAOF> seb128: Yeah.  We can happily kill it for now.  Sometime in the next couple of cycles we should probably schedule some work to fix it once and for all.  Like a giant ice cube!
[08:53] <jbicha> seb128: well, it sort of still works, it's just not really maintained
[08:53] <desrt> seb128: is it your intention to be following 3.0 or 3.2?
[08:53] <seb128> RAOF, ok, I think I will turn it off early, no point to keep it annoying users if we know it's not going to be solved this cycle
[08:53] <seb128> desrt, GNOME?
[08:54] <desrt> seb128: is there anything else? :)
[08:54] <seb128> GTK
[08:54] <desrt> both.
[08:54] <seb128> desrt, weird question since we are on GNOME 3.1.4 and I keep nagging you about unstable glib and gtk
[08:54] <seb128> desrt, but anyway 3.1 and we are mostly uptodate
[08:54] <desrt> seb128: i didn't know what gnome you're following
[08:54] <desrt> just glib/gtk
[08:55] <seb128> desrt, weren't you there at UDS pushing us to say 3.1 which we agreed on? ;-)
[08:55] <desrt> seb128: we agree on lots of things at UDS that i discover to be less true than i hoped :)
[08:55] <seb128> desrt, see versions url in the topic has well which has current oneiric versions lists
[08:55] <desrt> ah.  nice.
[08:55] <seb128> desrt, but yea, we follow 3.1 and got most of 3.1.4 packaged already
[08:56] <rodrigo_> I get a lot of these when building with bzr bd:
[08:56] <rodrigo_> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
[08:56] <rodrigo_> perl: warning: Please check that your locale settings:
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LANGUAGE = (unset),
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LC_ALL = (unset),
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LC_TIME = "es_ES.utf8",
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LC_MONETARY = "es_ES.utf8",
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LC_MEASUREMENT = "es_ES.utf8",
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LC_NUMERIC = "es_ES.utf8",
[08:56] <rodrigo_> 	LANG = "en_US.UTF-8"
[08:56] <rodrigo_>     are supported and installed on your system.
[08:56] <rodrigo_> perl: warning: Falling back to the standard locale ("C").
[08:56] <seb128> rodrigo_, seems like your locale is incorrectly set
[08:56] <mvo> seb128, rodrigo_ what is the problem with u-m?
[08:57] <desrt> seb128: i see lots of green :)
[08:57] <seb128> mvo, gpm is moved to gsd so the dbus interface is renamed
[08:57] <seb128> which sort of suck
[08:57] <rodrigo_> mvo, it uses g-p-m's dbus interface, which is gone to g-s-d, so the bus name needs a change
[08:57] <rodrigo_> mvo, I'll submit a branch in a bit
[08:57] <seb128> GNOME should consider dbus interfaces as APIs and keep those stable ;-)
[08:58] <desrt> seb128: we're moving away from that, in fact
[08:58] <desrt> it's a royal pain in the arse, with little advantage
[08:58] <desrt> killall dconf-service and be happy :)
[08:58] <seb128> rodrigo_, ./gdm-3.0.4/gui/simple-greeter/gdm-greeter-panel.c:#define GPM_DBUS_NAME      "org.gnome.PowerManager"
[08:58] <seb128> desrt, hum?
[08:59] <seb128> desrt, well, update-manager for example talk to org.gnome.gpm to tell it to not suspend during dist-upgrade
[08:59] <desrt> seb128: it's widely becoming apparent that attempting to maintain API stability on dbus interfaces is a substantial investment
[08:59] <seb128> desrt, there is no "restart the service and the code will work with org.gnome.gsd being the inteface to talk to"
[08:59] <seb128> desrt, well then you need libs wrapping the interface and use those
[08:59] <desrt> seb128: exactly.
[09:00] <desrt> seb128: as i understand it, we will see this a bit more often going forward
[09:00] <seb128> desrt, which is not what we have for it session signals
[09:00] <seb128> or power signals
[09:00] <seb128> it->i.e
[09:00] <desrt> seb128: particularly with the new GDBus binding generation stuff
[09:00] <desrt> then those libraries will have stable API
[09:00] <seb128> well, works for me, as long as the "public interface" is stable
[09:01] <desrt> nod.
[09:01] <mvo> thanks rodrigo_ and seb128
[09:01] <seb128> because otherwise it sucks
[09:01] <seb128> especially if you rename things like the dbus interface for screen saver inhibition
[09:01] <seb128> or in this case suspend inhibition
[09:02] <seb128> it means all the softwares "out there" which are often non GNOME ones break in some way
[09:02] <seb128> those could be skype or vlc or mplayer or whatever
[09:02] <desrt> i always get slightly nervous when i see random software poking someone else's dbus interface :)
[09:02] <seb128> i.e things that don't synchronize with GNOME
[09:02] <seb128> desrt, well that's what GNOME people recommend to do to inhibit the screensaver
[09:02] <desrt> seb128: i know.  i don't think it's the greatest policy.
[09:03] <desrt> alas.
[09:03] <seb128> yeah, we should have a libdesktop wrapping around all those dbus "desktop" apis
[09:03] <seb128> like session, screensaver, power, etc
[09:03] <rodrigo_> yes, I guess power interface should be a freedesktop one
[09:04] <desrt> seb128: libgio is supposed to be this interface, supposedly
[09:04] <desrt> seems weird for screensaver and such, though
[09:04] <desrt> maybe we should consider using gtk...
[09:04] <rodrigo_> yes
[09:04] <rodrigo_> no libdesktop :)
[09:04] <desrt> i'll raise the point with matthias
[09:04] <rodrigo_> or gio itself
[09:05] <rodrigo_> although it seems to be too desktop-specific
[09:05] <rodrigo_> so yeah, gtk makes sense
[09:05] <desrt> we can implement it with gioextensions
[09:05] <desrt> gtk would just be the public interface
[09:05] <desrt> individual environments would be free to provide overrides
[09:06] <desrt> "stop the screensaver" is not in such a different league as "give me a tray icon"
[09:06] <desrt> seb128: stop screensaver, suspend... anything else you can think of that might fit well here?
[09:08] <seb128> desrt, not sure, we have a bunch of "useful interfaces" like im status
[09:08] <seb128> or mounting interfaces
[09:08] <desrt> we have mounting stuff in gio already
[09:09] <seb128> right
[09:09] <seb128> so no, nothing else I can think about right now
[09:09] <seb128> the most common one is "let my screen alone, I watch a movie"
[09:09] <seb128> the inhibit suspend one is useful as well for things like upgrades
[09:11] <desrt> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=655398
[09:11] <ubot2> Gnome bug 655398 in gtk "provide API for inhibit screensaver/suspend/etc" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]
[09:11] <desrt> we'll see how the discussion goes
[09:11] <seb128> desrt, thanks
[09:11] <desrt> thanks for the suggestion :)
[09:12] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok, so it seems the only things using the old gpm interface are g-c-c that you just fixed, update-manager and gdm
[09:13] <jbicha> seb128: seahorse has a ubuntu-desktop branch
[09:14] <seb128> jbicha, yes like most of GNOME components installed by default ;-)
[09:14] <jbicha> but you didn't push to it yesterday
[09:14] <seb128> hum, sorry, I used it, I probably forgot to bzr push
[09:14] <seb128> checking
[09:15] <seb128> jbicha, done
[09:16] <rodrigo_> seb128, ok, almost done with gdm, so update-manager only missing
[09:18] <RAOF> Sweetshark: Bah, sorry, missed that pastebin.  Also sorry that I can't be any help; I've got no idea what's missing there :/
[09:19] <davmor2> seb128: is pitti the best guy to talk about with regard a regression in managing an audio player? In Natty he fixed it so that the sansa fuse showed up and fired up banshee/shotwell however in oneiric it isn't again, or is this something yet to implement?
[09:20] <seb128> better to open a bug, for one thing pitti is away for 2 weeks
[09:21] <Sweetshark> RAOF: I just kicked out a huge bunch of the creepy mono patches, now it seems to build. hopefully, I will also pack (and be halfway sensible at what it packs).
[09:22] <davmor2> seb128: will do
[09:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, did you need gnome-keyring sponsoring?
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> seb128, libgnome-keyring needs sponsoring
[09:33] <seb128> ok
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> i need to package p11-kit before gnome-keyring though don't i?
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> that's on my list for today :)
[09:34] <seb128> indeed you need it ;-)
[09:34] <seb128> great!
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> woohoo, focus issue fixed in thundebird
[09:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, where is libgnome-keyring?
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> turned out to be a simple error :)
[09:35] <seb128> nice
[09:35] <chrisccoulson> seb128, 1 second, i will host it somewhere
[09:38] <jbicha> seb128: mterry was wanting someone to be a bug subscriber for the transmission mirs, would ubuntu-desktop be a good choice?
[09:39] <seb128> jbicha, no, desktop-bugs rather
[09:39] <seb128> that's the team we use to track desktop bugs, it avoids spamming ubuntu-desktop members ;-)
[09:39] <jbicha> ok, could you do that then? :-)
[09:40] <seb128> sure
[09:45] <davmor2> this mornings update of lightdm seems a bit broken it isn't starting is there an ubuntu-bug hook for lightdm yet, if not what logs will be useful?
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128, http://people.canonical.com/~chrisccoulson/libgnome-keyring/
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> nice and easy ;)
[09:48] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ;-)
[09:57] <Sweetshark> woho, "building module postprocess"
[09:58] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: hey, have you heard about any bug in thunderbird which change the preferred smtp sender behind your back?
[09:59] <didrocks> and a crash :/
[10:00] <seb128> tb seems like a lot of fun ;-)
[10:00] <didrocks> seb128: at least with me :-)
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, i haven't heard anything like that. what's the symptom?
[10:00] <didrocks> I do not want to generalize :)
[10:01] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, from yesterday, the default smtp was set to gmail instead of my canonical onen
[10:01] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: and I'm sure I didn't change any value
[10:01] <didrocks> so, I had to set it back
[10:03] <rodrigo_> mvo, a present for you -> https://code.launchpad.net/~rodrigo-moya/update-manager/use-new-power-interface/+merge/69422 :-D
[10:04]  * mvo hugs rodrigo_
[10:05] <rodrigo_> :D
[10:29] <Sweetshark> what do you guys think: is is ok to upload libreoffice without the mono bridge package for now? for oneiric?
[10:29] <Laney> does anything actually use it?
[10:31] <seb128> what is the mono bridge doing?
[10:31] <Laney> mono bindings to the lo api
[10:32] <Laney> you can write lo plugins in c# for example
[10:32] <Sweetshark> seb128: it provides UNO bindings to mono (i.e. you can write remote control LibreOffice from an mono app). It dont think anybody uses it anyway.
[10:33] <seb128> well if it has no rdepends in the archive seems fine to drop for a bit
[10:33] <Sweetshark> FWIW it is not even published as part of the "official" builds on libreoffice.org -- its novells own go-oo patchery ...
[10:34] <seb128> yeah, drop it
[10:35] <Sweetshark> seb128: ok, then I have a 3.4.1 build for oneiric ;D
[10:35] <Laney> i'd suggest debian do the same
[10:37] <rodrigo_> seb128, I just sent cjwatson a mail about adding gdm to the desktop packageset, I hope that's ok, right?
[10:37] <seb128> sure
[10:37] <rodrigo_> ok, that's why I did it before asking :)
[10:38] <seb128> ;-)
[10:46] <seb128> Laney, hey, did you plan to upload the new tomboy to oneiric as well or should I just rebase on your debian update and upload?
[10:48] <Laney> seb128: doing it now
[10:49] <Laney> like, right now
[10:49] <seb128> Laney, thanks!
[11:05] <Laney> does bzr push send tags too?
[11:06] <rodrigo_> Laney, yes
[11:06] <Laney> cool, thanks
[11:07] <didrocks> Laney: not if it's the only change (meaning: there is no commit since last push)
[11:08] <Laney> there were 2 commits and a tag, should be fine then?
[11:08] <rodrigo_> yes
[11:08] <Laney> :-)
[11:08] <rodrigo_> and if not you can always 'bzr commit --unchanged'
[11:14] <ricotz> rodrigo_, hi :)
[11:17] <ricotz> rodrigo_, by any chance did you know about this? bug 811822
[11:17] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 811822 in gnome-session "gnome-session gets stuck utilizing 100% cpu time of one core" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/811822
[11:18] <rodrigo_> ricotz, hmm, no, looking
[11:18] <rodrigo_> hmm, no trace
[11:20] <ricotz> it seems i can confirm this, both gdm gnome-session process and the user one get stuck like this for me, but it seems system related
[11:20] <ricotz> i cant reproduce it on this machine
[11:20] <rodrigo_> ricotz, can you try getting a strace?
[11:21] <ricotz> i will try it when i am home again
[11:21] <rodrigo_> ricotz, ok, thanks
[11:22] <ricotz> it could be somehow related to the graphics driver :\ (happens with nvidia blob)
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> didrocks, where does unity get its setting for the default e-mail client from?
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> i just logged in to a guest session, and evo was the mail client in the dash
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> but the default was thunderbird in the messaging menu
[11:30] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: it was gconf before, unity-2d has been fixed for using the mimetypes, not sure about unity 3d, I'll have a look
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, is the 2d session only meant to have a single workspace?
[11:56] <BigWhale> Uhmm... when did oneiric lost the ability to pin the window to all desktops? the right click on a titlebar menu?
[11:57] <seb128> you can use alt-space
[12:01] <pedro_> good morning!
[12:01] <seb128> hey pedro_
[12:01] <seb128> how are you?
[12:02] <pedro_> salut seb128, doing good and you?
[12:02] <seb128> I'm fine thanks!
[12:08] <BigWhale> seb128, alt-space is a workaround... is this now a permanent change? :(
[12:08] <seb128> sort of
[12:09] <rodrigo_> hey pedro_
[12:09] <seb128> design decision to drop the context menu yes but they are looking for a better way to do the pin and raise actions
[12:09] <pedro_> hello rodrigo_, how are you?
[12:09] <rodrigo_> pedro_, happy, about to leave on vacation, in a few hours :D
[12:09] <rodrigo_> pedro_, you?
[12:09] <seb128> rodrigo_, when do you come back?
[12:09] <rodrigo_> pedro_, oh, btw, I'm not going to Berlin :(
[12:09] <seb128> rodrigo_, desktop summit?
[12:10] <pedro_> rodrigo_, well now i'm envy you :-P
[12:10] <seb128> oh, no desktop summit?
[12:10] <seb128> is pedro_ coming?
[12:10] <rodrigo_> seb128, Monday 8th
[12:10] <pedro_> seb128, i'm going there yeah
[12:10] <seb128> great
[12:10] <BigWhale> seb128, 'Move to another workspace' and 'Always on visible workspace' were very often used by me... too bad :(
[12:10] <rodrigo_> seb128, I'll be back quite late on the 6th, so I could fly quite late on the 7th or the 8th, which is the last core day
[12:11] <BigWhale> I hope they come up with something soon :)
[12:11] <seb128> well you can use alt-space
[12:11] <rodrigo_> it's bad this year there's not the warm up days there use to be :(
[12:12] <seb128> there are some days and a gir hackfest after though
[12:14] <rodrigo_> yes, but just going for that, when most people are gone, didn't feel like a good idea
[12:14] <rodrigo_> I'll miss it though, it's the 1st time I'm missing 2 guadec's in a row :(
[12:15] <rodrigo_> pedro_, you're staying for the whole week?
[12:15] <rodrigo_> seb128, you?
[12:15] <seb128> rodrigo_, enjoy your holidays at least
[12:15] <seb128> 6 to 11 for me
[12:15] <pedro_> rodrigo_, i'm leaving on thursday 11
[12:15] <seb128> I'm flying back on the 11
[12:16] <seb128> rodrigo_, yeah, you are right, if you come on the 8th it's not really worth it if most people leave on the 10 or 11
[12:16] <seb128> well next year
[12:16] <seb128> enjoy your holidays at least ;-)
[12:16] <rodrigo_> yes, I hope so
[12:16] <rodrigo_> also missing the guadec-es :(
[12:16] <seb128> when is it?
[12:17] <rodrigo_> a few days before the one in berlin
[12:17] <rodrigo_> anyway, lunch time, bbl
[12:18] <BigWhale> rodrigo_, any news on the eds/gir/pygobject fixes?
[12:42] <cyphermox> oh evolution, how I love thee; let me count the ways.... especially when you sigtrap because of broken ui files...
[13:10] <mterry> seb128, do you know much about how pot files that are taken from the translation tarball that pkgbinarymangler makes are used by Launchpad to offer as translation templates?
[13:10] <mterry> seb128, (hello)
[13:10] <seb128> hey mterry, now it's your turn to ask things before saying hi? ;-)
[13:10] <desrt> mterry: can you mow my lawn for me?
[13:10] <desrt> mterry: oh.  hi, by the way.
[13:10] <seb128> mterry, not "much" I guess but I've an idea how the system works, why?
[13:10] <mterry> :)
[13:11] <seb128> mterry, I don't think the mangler does the pot import, it just does the po stripping from the binaries
[13:11] <mterry> seb128, deja-dup has a help pot, and it's not showing up in LP for translators.  I have a couple ideas why, but don't know which makes sense
[13:12] <mterry> seb128, yeah.  It also puts the pot files in its tgz.  I assumed LP got the pots from that tgz
[13:12] <seb128> mterry, we blocked help templated years ago since there is no way to export help translations back
[13:12] <mterry> seb128, ah...  bummer
[13:12] <seb128> like launchpad knows how to export translations files
[13:12] <seb128> but not how to build localized xml files
[13:13] <mterry> seb128, hmm..  I bet we could do something similar that we do for .desktop files and replace the help xml with a bunch of xincludes to translated snippets.  ;)
[13:13] <seb128> it was misleading users to think that they translations would be used
[13:13] <seb128> where they are not, it would require manually updating the po files in the source
[13:13] <seb128> since the localized xml are built at build time
[13:13] <seb128> not using gettext
[13:13] <mterry> right
[13:14] <mterry> seb128, ah well
[13:15] <kenvandine> oh, no localized help?
[13:15] <seb128> mterry, well not sure if it would be possible to have translated documentation to be using the english xml and gettext
[13:15] <mterry> kenvandine, only what upstream provides
[13:15] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[13:15] <kenvandine> hey seb128 and mterry
[13:16] <seb128> kenvandine, what I said, the localized xml are generated during the build so they use the po directory content, not langpacks
[13:16] <kenvandine> do the help translations get stripped?
[13:16] <mterry> seb128, yeah, but we could construct some monstrosity using xincludes to tiny files with snippets of text, but that's not a serious suggestion
[13:16] <seb128> they get moved in langpacks yes
[13:16] <kenvandine> ok
[13:17] <seb128> mterry, well previous suggestion was to teach launchpad to build the translated xmls
[13:17] <seb128> but I think it was not trivial and not on the launchpad priority list
[13:17] <mterry> yeah
[13:32] <highvoltage> hi!
[13:33] <highvoltage> gnome-session-fallback should depend (or at least reccomend) on gnome-menus so that a user has menus when its installed
[13:34] <highvoltage> what's the preferred way to fix it, can I add it and paste a debdiff? stgraber said he could sponsor it this afternoon but I thought I'd pop in and check first
[13:34] <seb128> highvoltage, the session doesn't use the menus, gnome-panel should do that
[13:34] <seb128> highvoltage, do a merge requests against the ubuntu-desktop vcs
[13:35] <highvoltage> seb128: ok, will do
[13:35] <seb128> thanks
[13:35] <seb128> highvoltage, gnome-panel depends on gnome-menus
[13:36] <highvoltage> odd, I wonder why it's not installed in edubuntu
[13:36] <seb128> highvoltage, what desktop are you using?
[13:36] <highvoltage> seb128: Edubuntu with gnome 3 fallback
[13:36] <seb128> highvoltage, there was a bug with one of the .menus naming until yesterday
[13:36] <seb128> did you upgrade today?
[13:36] <highvoltage> seb128: I installed the gnome-menus package this morning, so it's possible I got the fix just now :)
[13:37] <highvoltage> seb128: I'll try with a daily build tomorrow, I guess it will be fixed. thanks :)
[13:37] <seb128> yw
[14:19] <cyphermox> hrm... anyone having issues connecting to a previously-unknown wifi network requiring security?
[14:29] <Sweetshark> soo, who is willing to sponsor libreoffice 1:3.4.1-3ubuntu1 once it finishes building and survives sanity checks?
[14:30]  * Sweetshark is looking for victims
[15:00] <jbicha> why do we ship xterm on the CD? and do we really need to show it by default since we have gnome-terminal?
[15:04] <jbicha> oh I see, the .desktop is shipped so that xterm gets a pretty icon but I think it should be NoDisplay=True
[15:10] <ronoc> mvo ping ?
[15:18] <mvo> ronoc: hello, I'm in a meeting right now
[15:18] <ronoc> mvo, no stress
[15:18] <mvo> ronoc: you are curious about the restart-required property?
[15:19] <cyphermox> now now, why won't gnome-keyring-daemon start on a new install?
[15:20] <mvo> seb128: have you seen https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/813468 ? do you have a opinion?
[15:20] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 813468 in update-manager "Panel indicators not updated correctly after upgrade from Hardy to Lucid" [Undecided,New]
[15:20] <seb128> cyphermox, bug #813755
[15:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 813755 in gnome-keyring "gnome-keyring-daemon fails to start as it can't get capabilities" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813755
[15:20] <cyphermox> ohhh
[15:21] <cyphermox> thanks :)
[15:21] <ronoc> mvo, yeah just wondering when I should plan to finish that apt menu item off
[15:21] <seb128> mvo, it's one of those old gnome-panels bugs which are there since warty that nobody will ever fix in the old codebase and which are fixed in GNOME3
[15:22] <mvo> so WONTFIX?
[15:22] <seb128> yes
[15:22] <seb128> or duplicate it from one of the other bugs on gnome-panel
[15:30] <BigWhale> rodrigo_, around? any news on the gir PyGObject problems?
[15:30] <cyphermox> seb128: ok, so that gkd issue would be fixed once the update to 3.1.4 lands
[15:32] <seb128> cyphermox, well it?
[15:33] <cyphermox> the what?
[15:33] <cyphermox> oh
[15:33] <cyphermox> yeah, should, there is a code change in there to get the capability, and there's something else that could benefit being added (depends for setcap)
[15:33] <cyphermox> chrisccoulson:  ^^
[15:34] <seb128> cyphermox, well -> will, sorry typo
[15:35] <rodrigo_> BigWhale, no, just filed the bug to pygobject, instead of evolution
[15:35] <seb128> well, why did it break?
[15:35] <cyphermox> seb128: yeah, it took me a little while to catch it :)
[15:35] <rodrigo_> in fact, I didn't, doing it now
[15:37] <chrisccoulson> wassup?
[15:37] <BigWhale> rodrigo_, cool thanks.
[15:38] <BigWhale> rodrigo_, I'll also add my code that fails to work
[15:39] <rodrigo_> ok
[15:51] <cyphermox> seb128: just uploaded EDS... evo will take some more time given that it won't start :)
[15:52] <cyphermox> afaics evo 3.1.3 works, and now it displays emails properly
[15:52] <seb128> cyphermox, ok, I've pinged mchra let's see if he replies
[15:52] <seb128> great
[15:54] <cyphermox> now to finish testing bluez
[16:29] <seb128> didrocks, mterry: hey guys, could you give gnome-online-account some mir action this week?
[16:29] <seb128> gnome-online-accounts
[16:30] <didrocks> still on an universe package for the sync stuff, can add to the list if you ping me later :)
[16:30] <seb128> kenvandine, could you reply to kees' comment on bug #791843?
[16:30] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 791843 in telepathy-indicator "[MIR] telepathy-indicator" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/791843
[16:32] <seb128> didrocks, seems like bug #795089 is ready for a new review from you though they didn't ping you again?
[16:32] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 795089 in python-xattr "[MIR] python-xattr" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/795089
[16:33] <seb128> mterry, RAOF wanted some review for bug #810217 as well if possible
[16:33] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 810217 in wayland "[MIR] wayland protocol package" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/810217
[16:34] <rodrigo_> ok, out for now, bbl, but just in case you're all gone, have a nice next week, I'll think about you when on vacation :)
[16:34] <seb128> didrocks, can things like bug #792005 be promoted and bug closed?
[16:34] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 792005 in xchat-indicator "[MIR] xchat-indicator" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/792005
[16:35] <seb128> rodrigo_, have fun during your holidays!
[16:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, I will!
[16:35] <seb128> rodrigo_, is there anything we should watch from while you are not there?
[16:35] <didrocks> seb128: will have a look, just not now :)
[16:35] <seb128> ok
[16:35] <rodrigo_> seb128, I'll be reading my mail just in case there's something urgent, but for BigWhale, if you can watch https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=654564 that would be great
[16:35] <ubot2> Gnome bug 654564 in introspection "Querying EDS address book in Python results in a segfault" [Critical,Unconfirmed]
[16:36] <rodrigo_> as I said, I'll be checking mail, but just in case there's a fix coming and I miss it, please watch it
[16:36] <kenvandine> seb128, will do
[16:36] <seb128> rodrigo_, ok
[16:36] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:45] <micahg> seb128: did someone fix lightdm today?
[16:45]  * micahg didn't see an upload
[16:46] <seb128> micahg, is it still broken?
[16:46] <lool> compiz (decor) - Warn: No default decoration found, placement will not be correct
[16:46] <seb128> micahg, chrisccoulson made an upload yesterday night
[16:46] <lool> wow, decorator crashing for a new window
[16:47] <lool> in a loop
[16:47] <micahg> seb128: no, that didn't fix it
[16:47] <lool> I opened a new xterm, and the decorations appeared/disappeared in a loop
[16:47] <micahg> seb128: also, adding transitional packages and breaks/replaces on the old greeters didn't help
[16:47] <lool> until I moved it a bit to not be as close to other windows
[16:47] <lool> now it's stopped
[16:47] <micahg> seb128: appears to be a bug in apt that it's allowing the greeter being removed to fulfill the virtual recommends requirement
[16:48]  * lool reboot
[16:49] <micahg> oh, wait, I didn't do the transitional packages right locally, that might actually work
[16:49] <seb128> micahg, I'm confused, lightdm recommends the gtk-greeter | virtual-greeter
[16:49] <seb128> micahg, so the gtk greeter should be installed first if no greeter is installed
[16:50] <seb128> micahg, the second issue yesterday was that the conflicts was wrong and letting a non working greeter installed which was enough to fill the recommends
[16:50] <micahg> seb128: right, but the old greeter which provides the virtual package is installed
[16:50] <micahg> it's being removed but apt doesn't seem to take that into account
[16:50] <seb128> micahg, well the conflicts update from chrisccoulson should address that issue
[16:50] <micahg> seb128: it dosn't
[16:51]  * micahg is testing transitional packages ATM
[16:52] <seb128> micahg, well, you mean no greeter get installed on your box?
[16:52] <micahg> seb128: right
[16:52] <mterry> seb128, ack for gnome-online-account and wayland
[16:52] <seb128> the recommends should ensure there is at least one
[16:52] <seb128> mterry, thanks
[16:52] <micahg> seb128: it's a bug in apt
[16:52] <seb128> micahg, what do you suggest doing then?
[16:52] <micahg> transitional packages, I'm testing to make sure it works right now
[16:52] <seb128> micahg, I've no seen other users complaining about lightdm working during the course of the day
[16:52] <seb128> not
[16:53] <micahg> are you idling in #ubuntu+1?
[16:53] <seb128> which is weird if upgrades are really still broken
[16:53] <seb128> no, but "broken for everybody" tend to reacht #ubuntu-desktop usually
[16:53] <seb128> like barry got the issue before chrisccoulson's update yesterday
[16:53] <seb128> nobody complained today
[16:53] <micahg> they all saw the workaround ;)
[16:54] <micahg> apt-get dist-upgrade doesn't offer a greeter with ubuntu3 if you had the old one installed
[16:56] <seb128> micahg, so you get the old example greeter installed and no new one?
[16:56] <micahg> no, the old one gets removed and nothing gets installed
[16:56] <seb128> or is the conflicts still broken?
[16:56] <seb128> ok, easy to fix then
[16:56] <seb128> we should just change the recommends to a depends
[16:57]  * micahg never acutally checked the diff
[16:57] <seb128> I wanted to check with robert_ancell why he just recommended a greeter to be installed, I don't see a case for not having one
[16:57] <seb128> well
[16:57] <micahg> no, the diff last night was right
[16:57] <seb128> lightdm recommends gtk-greeter | virtual-greeter
[16:57] <seb128> but the issue with recommends is that apt might decide it's fine that you have none installed
[16:57] <seb128> changing to a depends would ensure you always have a greeter
[16:58] <seb128> which seems to happen in this particular upgrade case, apt got confused and you get no recommends
[16:58] <micahg> seb128: transitional packages seem to work, want a debdiff?
[16:58] <seb128> no
[16:58] <seb128> but thanks
[16:58] <seb128> I don't want to add binaries
[16:58] <seb128> using a proper depends ought to fix that issue
[16:58] <seb128> with a depends there is no way that people get no greeter
[16:59] <seb128> it's a one liner
[16:59] <didrocks> do you know why it's not a dep? seems weird
[16:59] <seb128> no, as said I wanted to check with robert_ancell
[17:00] <didrocks> agreed (sorry just backlogged)
[17:00] <seb128> not sure if he wanted to take into account the case where you are local custom greeter not packaged
[17:00] <seb128> but it would really be a corner case
[17:00] <didrocks> seb128: LTSP maybe?
[17:00] <seb128> or that
[17:00] <seb128> well for now let's sort the obvious issue
[17:02] <didrocks> kenvandine: seb128: xchat-indicator promoted
[17:02] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[17:03] <didrocks> yw :)
[17:04] <kenvandine> didrocks, thx!
[17:04] <didrocks> kenvandine: add the recommends: if not done :)
[17:05] <seb128> it's done
[17:05] <didrocks> ok, didn't check ;)
[17:08] <didrocks> and python-xattr reviewed and promoted
[17:09] <didrocks> I'll have a look tomorrow at other MIRs if some updates were made without pinging me
[17:10] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[17:14] <didrocks> yw (not sure what went wrong, X just restarted under my feet)
[17:15] <mterry> mpt, thanks for your review of deja-dup!  I've moved it to https://live.gnome.org/DejaDup/Design/Review-2011-07 and I will mark various items as done when I fix them
[17:17] <mterry> mpt, you mention right-aligned labels?  I've seen various attempts at that in GNOME 3.0 controls (right aligned, no colon, sometimes lighter text).  Is there an HIG recommendation for such control labels yet?
[17:20] <didrocks> ok, enough for today, see you tomorrow! :)
[17:22] <czajkowski> wondering does anyone have any thoughts on https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/807723  is it a bug or a wishlist ?
[17:22] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 807723 in empathy "Empathy does not start at login by default" [Wishlist,New]
[17:23] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[17:23] <czajkowski> seb128: evening
[17:23] <seb128> hey czajkowski
[17:23] <kenvandine> hummm
[17:23] <seb128> czajkowski, well I think that picking "online" in the indicator should work after login at least
[17:24] <seb128> then the connect by default, not sure, I think GNOME was discussing doing that for this cycle
[17:24] <czajkowski> seb128: aye thats what I would have assumed tbh
[17:24] <kenvandine> i think that does now
[17:24] <seb128> would be worth reading what they decided
[17:24] <czajkowski> kenvandine: ello
[17:24] <kenvandine> hey czajkowski
[17:24] <kenvandine> and you can add empathy to your session
[17:24] <czajkowski> kenvandine: not my bug I'll have you know came up in a lug channel and I found it interesting seeing as he's been mentoning it for some time but nobody looked at it
[17:24] <kenvandine> if you want it to start
[17:25] <kenvandine> i think in oneiric, with tp-indicator starting... it lets us go online from the indicator
[17:25] <kenvandine> without starting empathy
[17:30] <BigWhale> Hm, my empathy always starts upon login and sets me online. Might be only me.
[17:37] <seb128> micahg, ok, I upload with a depends instead of the recommends, if that doesn't fix it I will take your transitional package solution ;-)
[17:37] <micahg> seb128: k, I still have my system to test, but I will be afk in about an hour until evening CDT, so can I ask someone to upload later if it doesn't work?
[17:38] <seb128> sure
[17:38] <micahg> thanks
[19:19] <BigWhale> Not having restart in the system menu is a pain! *spits and curses*
[19:26] <dobey> what system menu?
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> i think he's referring to the new device menu
[19:29] <chrisccoulson> there's no restart option ;)
[19:31] <stgraber> oh, I just noticed ;) that's indeed annoying (I restart a lot more often than I shutdown or logout)
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> stgraber, it's a bug. they just forgot to remove the shutdown entry
[19:34] <chrisccoulson> :)
[19:36] <stgraber> ;)
[19:38] <dobey> what's annoying is that lightdm doesn't seem to do the shutdown magic
[19:39] <dobey> so no matter what i choose, it's all just log out to me :(
[19:39] <dobey> and the "are you sure you want to do that" dialogs are annoying
[19:39] <dobey> YES IM SURE, I JUST CLICKED THE MENU ITEM FOR A REASON
[19:39] <dobey> :)
[19:49] <dobey> i wonder
[19:49] <dobey> is there even one package in debian/ubuntu that does private python modularization correctly.
[20:16] <czajkowski> chrisjrob: aloha
[20:17] <chrisjrob> hell czajkowski
[20:17] <chrisjrob> o
[20:17] <chrisjrob> start with a typo :)
[20:17] <czajkowski> chrisjrob: I'll convert ye all yet in that channel to asking for help on irc :)
[20:17] <chrisjrob> you can try
[20:18] <czajkowski> chrisjrob: well folks are helpful in here and easier than feeding you to the wolves on a mailing list ;)
[20:19] <chrisjrob> thanks
[20:19] <chrisjrob> kenvandine: i think czajkowski was discussing a bug i logged in empathy https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/807723
[20:19] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 807723 in empathy "Empathy does not start at login by default" [Wishlist,New]
[20:22] <kenvandine> chrisjrob, hey
[20:22] <kenvandine> yeah?
[20:23] <chrisjrob> sorry, on another screen...
[20:23] <kenvandine> hi chrisjrob
[20:23] <chrisjrob> i was wondering how it is that the workflow is so different between gwibber and empathy for example
[20:24] <kenvandine> it isn't really
[20:24] <chrisjrob> when you set up gwibber it just works
[20:24] <kenvandine> true
[20:24] <chrisjrob> with empathy it doesn't, you have to run it every time or add to start-up application
[20:24] <kenvandine> after configuring accounts it sets to start automatically
[20:24] <kenvandine> but, gwibber doesn't provide presence
[20:25] <kenvandine> so starting it doesn't tell everyone you are friends with you are online
[20:25] <kenvandine> and ready to chat
[20:25] <kenvandine> so it is much more passive
[20:25] <chrisjrob> okay, but empathy doesn''t run at all, offline or online
[20:25] <kenvandine> you can choose to add it to your startup programs
[20:25] <kenvandine> and it will
[20:25] <chrisjrob> indeed, and it does
[20:26] <chrisjrob> my problem with that is for new users
[20:26] <chrisjrob> they will be completely lost
[20:26] <kenvandine> indeed
[20:26] <chrisjrob> it just seems wrong to me
[20:26] <kenvandine> however, defaulting to starting empathy and bringing them online automatically would upset lots of people
[20:26] <chrisjrob> but there's a tickbox for that in empathy
[20:27] <chrisjrob> so a new user will work that out
[20:27] <chrisjrob> leave it off by default
[20:27] <kenvandine> right
[20:27] <chrisjrob> any vaguely literate computer user who is wondering why he starts offline will find that tickbox and tick it
[20:27] <chrisjrob> but empathy should at least run, once configured, at startup
[20:27] <kenvandine> personally i start mine at login :)
[20:28] <chrisjrob> you have a better memory than me clearly ;)
[20:28] <kenvandine> that is a matter of opinion... i think a lot of people feel it is better to protect the new user
[20:28] <chrisjrob> would they not be protected by starting up offline?
[20:28] <kenvandine> then there is no point in starting empathy at all at login
[20:28] <chrisjrob> well i disagree there
[20:29] <chrisjrob> at least the buttons would all work
[20:29] <hggdh> well. I rarely start empathy. If it is to stay offline, them it should not be started, just another CPU consumer
[20:29] <kenvandine> one thing to note is they do work now
[20:29] <chrisjrob> for example changing your status to online
[20:29] <kenvandine> chrisjrob, so you can now change it to online without starting empathy
[20:29] <chrisjrob> well some do - chat accounts does and chat
[20:29] <chrisjrob> but not the status indicators
[20:29] <chrisjrob> not in 11.04
[20:29] <kenvandine> in 11.10
[20:29] <chrisjrob> they are greyed out
[20:29]  * kenvandine did that work :)
[20:29] <chrisjrob> yay!
[20:29] <chrisjrob> that would make me happy
[20:30] <czajkowski> chrisjrob: see  just have to upgrade so :)
[20:30] <kenvandine> so it brings you online, without starting empathy
[20:30] <kenvandine> if someone IMs you, and you click on it in the indicator
[20:30] <kenvandine> it opens empathy
[20:30] <kenvandine> to the chat
[20:30] <chrisjrob> sounds good
[20:31] <kenvandine> :)
[20:31] <chrisjrob> my issue was the fact that stuff seemed broken by default
[20:31] <chrisjrob> thank you kenvandine
[20:31] <kenvandine> yeah, it wasn't that empathy wasn't started on login
[20:31] <kenvandine> it was that the indicator had no notion of telepathy unless it was running
[20:31] <kenvandine> i fixed that :)
[20:32] <kenvandine> no problem chrisjrob
[20:35] <czajkowski> so cna the bug be then closed/
[20:38] <chrisjrob> czajkowski: just doing it now
[20:38] <chrisjrob> what status should i change it to? fix-released or invalid?
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, is nautilus-sendto actually maintained?
[21:06] <dobey> chrisccoulson: probably not
[22:49] <james_w> anyone know where org.gnome.settings-daemon.peripherals.touchpad touchpad-enabled is exposed in the UI?
[22:49] <james_w> It was somehow set to false for me, but the touchpad capplet gave no indication that the touchpad was disabled
[23:29] <cyphermox> james_w: don't think it is
[23:31] <cyphermox> there's just "while typing"