[09:39] <ztonzy> anyone used Kopete and suddenly a day, it wont login your accounts...then another day it works ??
[09:40] <buz> yeah
[09:40] <Beineri> buz: why not use the qemu package from universe? :-)
[09:40] <ztonzy> happened to me now and then, but Gaim always works
[09:40] <buz> usually i'd just quit it and reload it
[09:40] <ztonzy> buz, you ?
[09:40] <mikl> ztonzy: never happened to me :)
[09:40] <buz> Beineri: it's only qemu 0.6.1 which is buggy and sloooow
[09:40] <ztonzy> mikl, hmmm  ok
[09:41] <ztonzy> anyone see some wip work I work on ?
[09:41] <ralph1> Hi all I have just completed my first install of Kubuntu 5.04. I am impressed but have a sound problem. There is no sound. My mother board is a Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2, and I am using the onbard sound chip. Can some one help me get sound working.
[09:41] <ztonzy> (3D)
[09:41] <mmpf> noone using lineak?
[09:41] <Beineri> buz: find someone (in #ubuntu-motu) to update it :-)
[09:42] <mikl> hmm, synaptic + gtk-engine-qt is almost good :)
[09:43] <dimmak> yay... i can play encrypted dvds in kubuntu now... and i have no idea why
[09:44] <ztonzy> anyone here have a Logitech Cordless Desktop EX-100 ?
[09:44] <dimmak> i have the logitech cordless elite duo
[09:44] <ztonzy> dimmak, does it detect/work the buttons for volume and so ?
[09:45] <Beineri> ralph1: try in the configuration panel other sound system options. or just pull up the volume :-)
[09:45] <dimmak> ubuntu was slashdotted better
[09:45] <ataxic> lot of ignorant ppl :)
[09:45] <Beineri> calc: you realize that Kubuntu just had its first release ever?
[09:45] <vrln> nice, debconf indeed asks which login manager I want to use
[09:45] <vrln> awesome stuff :)
[09:45] <calc> Beineri: yea :)
[09:47] <Beineri> calc: and dunno what numbers you have, according to torrent stats it's kubuntu:ubuntu 1:3.7
[09:47] <_ReDRuM_> you knwo what would be really cool
[09:47] <_ReDRuM_> a revision control system for the whole hard drive! :)
[09:47] <netsniper> ftp://ftp.umasslug.org/iso/Ubuntu/Hoary/
[09:47] <calc> i was just looking at torrents for i386
[09:48] <calc> i was too lazy to add the other archs up
[09:48] <Beineri> calc: what values?
[09:48] <calc> 274G vs 1.4T
[09:48] <calc> about 5.25
[09:48] <buz> most current kubuntu users probably didnt get it at all
[09:48] <buz> apt updates worked just fine
[09:48] <calc> yea
[09:49] <calc> did kubuntu get posted to dot?
[09:49] <buz> whereis from warty they might have chose to go the iso route
[09:49] <ataxic> its mentioned in the ubuntu post
[09:49] <calc> ah yea i see it
[09:49] <dimmak> ubuntu did... with a brief mention of kubuntu
[09:49] <Beineri> calc: kunbuntu downloads lag behind somehow, the "current downloading" numbers are 1:2.1
[09:49] <mikl> is it just me, or are the package-mirrors kinda slow? :(
[09:49] <calc> Beineri: oh
[09:52] <LeeJunFan> mikl: that's what happens when something gets slashdotted.
[09:52] <ralph1> Beineri: The kmix output sliders are all at max, the input sliders are maxed also, and I have tried all audio devices in control center with no sound output.
[09:52] <Beineri> calc: best kubuntu ratio for current is install-powerpc (28:34)
[09:53] <calc> cool :)
[09:53] <LeeJunFan> ralph1: what sound chipset do you have? VIA?
[09:54] <kangpeh> Is it possible to have both Gnome and KDE on a Ubuntu system?
[09:54] <Beineri> calc: and current live-i386 numbers are 228:411 (1.8) - seems people are trying first live-cd first time :-)
[09:54] <kangpeh> And, In Fedora Core 3 - there is IIIMF to switch input methods instantly (CTRL+SPACE) from English to Korean or English to Japanese, etc... - DOES something like this exist in Ubuntu?
[09:54] <Beineri> kangpeh: sure
[09:54] <kangpeh> [in gnome]
[09:55] <ralph1> Beineri: Realtek ALC655 CODEC
[09:55] <bufalo73> kangpeh, gnome, kde, windowmaker, enlightenment, icewm and all the WM and DE that you like
[09:55] <kangpeh> bufalo73: cool
[09:55] <kangpeh> bufalo73: so how do i get kubuntu and ubuntu on 1 system
[09:55] <kangpeh> heh
[09:56] <Beineri> kangpeh: install one first, add the other
[09:56] <Eagle101> Help. Is Kubuntu same as Ubuntu but instead of gnome it has KDE? or maybe its more different then ubuntu
[09:56] <kangpeh> oh cool
[09:56] <bufalo73> install ubuntu or kubuntu and install ubuntu-desktop or kubuntu-desktop (correct me if i'm wrong)
[09:56] <LeeJunFan> damn dvd amd torrent is slow!
[09:56] <kangpeh> hmm
[09:56] <LeeJunFan> I must be the only person who has it.
[09:56] <kangpeh> o__o;
[09:57] <Beineri> LeeJunFan: DVDs are not released yet...
[09:57] <LeeJunFan> Beineri: what's in the current dir then?
[09:57] <Beineri> LeeJunFan: current/ sounds like weekly snapshot
[09:58] <mikl> kangpeh: you a korean?
[09:58] <kangpeh> mikl: yes sir
[09:58] <LeeJunFan> Beineri: crap. they are all dated yesterday. :(
[09:58] <Beineri> Eagle101: yes
[09:58] <narg> Hrm, is there an equiv of sid repos in ubuntu? (Very up to date, etc)
[09:58] <kangpeh> mikl:  That's why I need KR input lolz ;)
[09:59] <mikl> kangpeh: that figures ;)
[09:59] <kangpeh> mikl:  I want to switch to Ubuntu - from Fedora Core 3...
[09:59] <kangpeh> mikl:  But, without easy/simple KR input support, it'd be bad of me to make that switch ;/
[09:59] <Beineri> LeeJunFan: Maybe that will be the DVDs which will be released but even if their torrent may change because of other name...
[09:59] <kangpeh> mikl:  In my case, I have to think about overall usability first - and KR input is very important to me - so it is a major issue :/
[09:59] <Eagle101> Beineri: But why are people complaining and saying that Ubuntu is more stable and faster then kubuntu..which i think it should be the same thing right?
[09:59] <Beineri> Eagle101: What people?
[10:00] <Eagle101> Beineri: some folks on a forum
[10:00] <Beineri> Eagle101: ignore them ;-)...
[10:01] <mikl> kangpeh: I can understand that - not beeing able to write in ones native language would be a pain
[10:01] <kakalto> g'morning
[10:01] <LeeJunFan> Eagle101: they are probably of the gnome religion and just want you to use gnome.
[10:01] <kangpeh> mikl: Yeah :/
[10:01] <jean> just got the kubuntu news...great. But was Konqueror shipped with sane defaults?
[10:02] <kangpeh> mikl:  fed.core3 has the switcher - but if it does im SURE there is an easy way in ubuntu
[10:02] <kangpeh> EVERYONE tells me to switch
[10:02] <kangpeh> so there's gotta be a way if ubunutu is that popular
[10:02] <kangpeh> and if there is no way i will code one and take the fame bwahaha
[10:02] <kangpeh> ;p
[10:02] <Eagle101> Beineri: probably..i heard that kde 3.4 is faster then before, true?
[10:02] <Beineri> Eagle101: sure :-)
[10:02] <kangpeh> is kde 3.4 as fast as gnome?
[10:02] <mikl> kangpeh: what is the name of the switcher, then I'll look for in the package-database?
[10:03] <Beineri> Eagle101: Everything good you hear about KDE is true :-)
[10:03] <kangpeh> fn~mikl:  It's written by RedHat - the one i use
[10:03] <kangpeh> Gnome Input Method Switcher (IIIMF)
[10:03] <kangpeh> :/
[10:03] <kakalto> Beineri, I think you'll be pleased to know I'm going to try out kubuntu-dektop in a few hours
[10:03] <Eagle101> Beineri: but whats the difference between installing the kubuntu system, and installing ubuntu then doing apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[10:03] <kakalto> nothing
[10:04] <kakalto> except you would also have gnome if you got kubuntu-desktop under ubuntu
[10:04] <Eagle101> kakalto: true...ur name makes me laugh, lol
[10:04] <Beineri> jean: dunno what you consider sane. it's setup to open tabs in existing windows by default
[10:04] <kakalto> Eagle101, ?
[10:05] <Eagle101> kakalto: in my language, kaka means shit...lol
[10:05] <mikl> kangpeh: there are a number of packages with IIIMF, but I'm not sure there's the gnome-one you require
[10:05] <jean> Beineri: I mean removing stuff like the secutiry button, copy/paste and the like.
[10:05] <kangpeh> oooh
[10:05] <kakalto> Eagle101, >:(
[10:05] <Beineri> Eagle101: after the latter you also have GNOME installed :-)
[10:05] <kangpeh> but it was written by redhut
[10:05] <kangpeh> u sure they'd make it available to ubuntu lol
[10:05] <mikl> htt-server is an IIIM server daemon that provides input method service to
[10:06] <Eagle101> Beineri: is ubuntu more intergrated into gnome or kubuntu into kde? what do you think?
[10:06] <kakalto> Eagle101, you may notice the 'lto' on the end
[10:06] <kakalto> that means 'not'
[10:06] <mikl> etc etc. - taken from the ubuntu package repository :)
[10:06] <dimmak> i didn't mind gnome when i was using fedora for a while... but i just felt it was a pain in the ass to configure it the way i liked.
[10:06] <Eagle101> kakalto: shitlot...heheeh
[10:06] <kakalto> Shit NOT
[10:06] <Beineri> jean: iirc it has the same buttons as KDE 3.4, and KDE 3.4 has no cut/copy/paste anymore...
[10:06] <mikl> kangpeh: if I'm not much wrong, the program you use is some kind of frontend for the IIIMF-program
[10:07] <Eagle101> kakalto: im just messing with u man...
[10:07] <kakalto> :(
[10:07] <kangpeh> mikl: Precisely, sir.
[10:07] <Beineri> jean: look at shots.osdir.com screenshots :-)
[10:07] <jean> ok
[10:07] <kangpeh> mikl:  If I write a front-end for Ubuntu (and one doesn't exist already) - can I get fame?
[10:07] <kangpeh> like props or wahtever hehe
[10:07] <mikl> kangpeh: probably some koreans will be ready to kiss your feet or so :)
[10:08] <kangpeh> girls? haha
[10:08] <buz> like what sort of frontend
[10:08] <Eagle101> shemales probably
[10:08] <buz> like a good X11 config tool?
[10:08] <Beineri> jean: http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=306&slide=33
[10:08] <kakalto> :(
[10:08] <kangpeh> :/
[10:08] <mikl> neverthelss, I should probably get to bed soon - good night (or whatever) people :)
[10:08] <kakalto> good morning.
[10:09] <kakalto> err
[10:09] <kakalto> goodbye.
[10:09] <Eagle101> kakalto: are you happy with ur kubuntu?
[10:09] <kakalto> I don't have kubuntu
[10:09] <kakalto> I have a messy hoary
[10:09] <jean> ok
[10:10] <kakalto> I'm going to back everything up and re-install
[10:10] <kakalto> I have the ubuntu hoary iso
[10:10] <kakalto> I'm going to just apt-get install kubuntu-desktop
[10:10] <kakalto> you see, when I upgraded from warty to hoary... not a pretty site.
[10:10] <Eagle101> kakalto: y not just install kubuntu?
[10:10] <kakalto> 'cause I don't have the iso
[10:11] <kakalto> and I don't have the patience for 8hours of iso downloading
[10:11] <kakalto> so I'll just have a couple of hours of kubuntu-desktop downoading
[10:11] <Eagle101> kakalto: well download it...i am downloading right now, and the speed is 560kb/s...in 5 min, it should be finished
[10:11] <kakalto> after I have a clean install
[10:11] <kakalto> Eagle101, I have an ABSOLUTE MAX of 33kb/s
[10:11] <kakalto> I'm on 256k
[10:12] <Eagle101> wow...maybe u need to start using some kind of download accelerator...i am getting max 600kb/s
[10:12] <kakalto> but... wouldn't my ISP limit it?
[10:12] <ataxic> yeh
[10:13] <Eagle101> kakalto: yes...
[10:13] <ataxic> 256 is 33  512 66
[10:13] <buz> 33kbyte should be about right for 256k
[10:13] <kakalto> yeah
[10:13] <kakalto> usually I get more like 20 or 25 though
[10:13] <ataxic> 1mb bout 120 but they can give you much lower
[10:13] <Bicchi> are there any mirrors to download kubuntu. not torrents please.
[10:14] <kakalto> quite likely
[10:14] <ataxic> i just got it from the US mirror
[10:14] <Eagle101> http://releases.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/hoary/
[10:14] <ataxic> max speed for 512k
[10:14] <ataxic> burning the disc now
[10:14] <Eagle101> ataxic: i bet you ur gonna like it
[10:15] <Bicchi> i can not even connect.
[10:15] <ataxic> i have had it before
[10:15] <ataxic> with kde3.3.2
[10:15] <ataxic> i was just wating for the kde3.4 version
[10:15] <ataxic> waiting
[10:15] <ataxic> i like it yeh
[10:15] <ataxic> lazy linux :)
[10:15] <ataxic> i'm coming from a few years slackware
[10:18] <Bicchi> any ftp sites to download kubuntu. it does not download the amd64 iso.
[10:19] <Eagle101> and i am coming from debian sarge
[10:20] <kakalto> Eagle101, what speed's your internet, officially?
[10:20] <Beineri> Bicchi: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[10:20] <Eagle101> kakalto: i got a very fast Road Runner connection...
[10:21] <kakalto> 1Mb? 5Mb? T3?
[10:23] <Eagle101> 4MB/s
[10:24] <kakalto> is that 4Mbit or 4Mbyte
[10:24] <gdh> :)
[10:24] <gdh> Our local lameass cable provider advertised 'one megabyte per second internet' as their base package
[10:24] <gdh> on a TV advert recently
[10:24] <kakalto> uh-oh
[10:24] <kakalto> let me guess, megabit?
[10:24] <gdh> if I had the energy I'd actually try to hold them to it
[10:24] <Eagle101> i dont know...
[10:25] <gdh> 8Mbit cable wouldbe nice :D
[10:25] <kakalto> 1Mbit would be nice
[10:25] <kakalto> even that is only just coming in in my areas
[10:25] <kakalto> *area
[10:27] <kakalto> does K3b handle writing iso's to a re-writable cd?
[10:28] <Beineri> kakalto: uhm, sure. What's there to handle (except asking if cd-rw should be erased first)?
[10:28] <kakalto> ya
[10:28] <kakalto> I just had to be sure
[10:32] <kangpeh> dang
[10:32] <kangpeh> i should have hosted an ubuntu mirror :|
[10:33] <Bicchi> i want kubuntu and too many people are downloading it :( no mirrors. this sucks. i guess it will have to wait until next week.
[10:34] <ztonzy> weeell
[10:34] <buz> Bicchi: use torrents
[10:34] <ztonzy> I have 10/1 mbit/s but it doesnt help me...as fast as 56k  heh
[10:34] <buz> back in march it worked like a charm fo rme
[10:34] <Bicchi> buz: S L O W, same as next week.
[10:34] <kkathman> Anyone here running superkaramba thats willing to help me solve a prob?
[10:34] <buz> how many users are there on the torrents
[10:35] <Beineri> Bicchi: did you try some mirrors of the list?
[10:35] <ztonzy> buz,  me too
[10:35] <buz> for europeans, i can suggest mirror.switch.ch
[10:35] <buz> they have an insanely fast pipe
[10:35] <Bicchi> Beineri: yeah i tried them but they only offer ubuntu and no iso's.
[10:35] <Beineri> buz: http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[10:36] <buz> doesnt look so bad, 214 seeds, 370 downloads
[10:36] <Beineri> Bicchi: no ISOs? look into the cd image mirror section at the bottom
[10:37] <buz> yeah most mirrors don't seem to carry isos right now
[10:37] <buz> probably for the best
[10:38] <Beineri> buz: in what country are you?
[10:38] <buz> switzerland
[10:38] <buz> why
[10:38] <Beineri> buz: there you go: http://mirror.switch.ch/ftp/mirror/ubuntu-cdimage/kubuntu/hoary/
[10:38] <buz> ah tehre it it is
[10:38] <buz> i don't actually need it ;-)
[10:39] <Bicchi> Beineri: i see them now, thanks.
[10:39] <Beineri> buz: damn completion :-)
[10:40] <Beineri> at least it didn't seem as if I would talk to myself :-)
[10:47] <firas_> can I read arabic pages with kubuntu or do i need to install special packages (ex to see that kind of page http://ar.wikipedia.org)
[10:48] <gdh> firas_: That renders just perfectly
[10:48] <gdh> in arabic script with a very normal kubuntu install
[10:50] <Beineri> it sucks CPU like crazy :-)
[10:50] <Beineri> looks interesting :-)
[10:51] <gdh> Yes :)
[10:51] <gdh> Looks so much more elegant than Latin scripts
[10:51] <gdh> I wonder if there are many Arabic fonts...
[10:51] <Beineri> to viewed with "konqueror --reverse" of course :-)
[10:51] <gdh> like, how much artistic variance can there be
[10:52] <gdh> and still represent the same glyphs?
[10:53] <buz> sheesh ch.archive is sloooow now
[10:53] <firas_> gdh: thx
[10:54] <gdh> Beineri: konversation --reverse would be more handy - I could see the outcome of discussions without having to wade through megs of waffle and punditory :)
[10:55] <Beineri> gdh: "konversation --reverse" does work but I doubt it has the effect you desires :-)
[10:56] <_wk> what is on?
[10:56] <gdh> :)
[11:00] <firas_> I'm trying to install kubuntu but it blocks at udeb package
[11:00] <firas_> what do u think is wrong?
[11:03] <LeeJunFan> firas_: bad download probably.
[11:03] <gdh> Yeh check the md5sums at least :)
[11:03] <gdh> did you download a nightly build image or the 'RC' image?
[11:04] <LeeJunFan> I really wish ubuntu setup had partition resizing. Would be perfect for windows (almost) converts.
[11:04] <gdh> Does that exist? Is that what gnu parted does/
[11:04] <gdh> ?
[11:04] <gdh> i.e. a Free partitionmagic...
[11:05] <Beineri> firas_: http://ktown.kde.org/~binner/firas.png
[11:05] <loren> Anyone here have OpenGL installed correctly?
[11:05] <LeeJunFan> gdh: yeah, it can do it. Mandrake does it during setup. Of all the linux distro's mandrake really has their sh!t together when it comes to partitioning.
[11:05] <firas_> i downloaded the new version stable
[11:06] <loren> can anyone on Kubunut emulate a OpenGL screensaver correctly?
[11:06] <firas_> Beineri: cool
[11:06] <gdh> loren: I only have an old matrox mystique VGA...
[11:06] <LeeJunFan> loren: when the correct drivers are installed. And depending on having nvidia or ATI installation/config is different.
[11:06] <firas_> I'm trying to migrate from mandrake, i have two partitions, /home and / , does kubuntu detect those easily?
[11:07] <gdh> firas_: So you'd want to trash / but keep and re-use /home, yes?
[11:07] <chavo> firas_, yes, you'll have to select custom partitioning.
[11:07] <LeeJunFan> firas_: shouldn't be a problem. You'll want to format and install your / but don't format /home, do make sure you select to use it as /home though.
[11:07] <loren> LeeJunFan: i know, im just trying to see if people are having problems with OpenGL when it comes automagixally installed with the distro, as for drivers, yeah i agree but i'm tryung to figure out which graphics cards are automagixally supported without configuration
[11:07] <loren> LeeJunFan:  like what series
[11:08] <firas_> gdh: yes keep/home
[11:08] <loren> else you could be fux0red up
[11:08] <root> So does Ubuntu include any licensed software like Macromedia Flash or Realplayer?
[11:08] <gdh> as always , get ready to restore from your robot automated AIT tape library ;)
[11:08] <firas_> LeeJunFan: do u plan to build a qt interface to debian installer sometime? :)
[11:09] <LeeJunFan> a few more people in here since final release I see.
[11:09] <loren> root: RealPlayer is built off Helix Player and i dont think Helix requires a liscense
[11:09] <loren> root: you can always apt-get them
[11:09] <LeeJunFan> firas_: :) PyQT maybe. :)
[11:09] <gdh> Who needs a mouse-driven GUI to press Return 10 times? :)
[11:09] <loren> lol
[11:09] <LeeJunFan> gdh: true.
[11:10] <gdh> If a 'DOS screen' really scares you that much, maybe you should consider working with animals or something.
[11:10] <LeeJunFan> gdh: HAHA
[11:10] <loren> XD
[11:10] <loren> DOS scares me
[11:10] <loren> UNIX doesn't ;P
[11:10] <gdh> DOS=HIGH
[11:10] <gdh> no shit :)
[11:10] <root> So are the packages pulled from Debian or does Ubuntu keep their own?
[11:11] <loren> root: what do you mean, use the same download site? for apt-get?
[11:11] <root> Yeah
[11:11] <loren> root: http://packages.ubuntu.org
[11:11] <root> My big issue with Debian has always been speed to release new stuff
[11:11] <loren> root: packages.debian.org has some connection error i believe
[11:12] <LeeJunFan> root: that's where ubuntu one upped debian.
[11:12] <loren> root: sorry bad link http://packages.ubuntu.com/
[11:12] <LeeJunFan> root: but then it also means support ends after 18 months, so if you run it on a server either get cozy with GCC or use debian.
[11:12] <gdh> root: ubuntu has big commercial sponsorship so people work on it as their fulltime job
[11:12] <loren> really?
[11:12] <gdh> Debian is a network of volunteers contributing their spare time...
[11:12] <root> Do they integrate their packages well?  For instance, if I install Flash player after Firefox will it set up the plugin for firefox?
[11:12] <loren> i didn't know that gdh
[11:13] <gdh> Is that not what Canonical have done?
[11:13] <gdh> Or have I grossly misunderstood things?
[11:13] <loren> root: yeah i believe so, at least i think it did 0_o
[11:13] <root> :)
[11:13] <loren> gdh: any chance you know how much OEM'ed support goes for for Kubunut/Ubuntu
[11:13] <root> Well hell, I may have to give it a try now that I can get KDE on it.
[11:13] <gdh> loren: I only read the public webpages :)
[11:14] <root> OOOOhhh, wait.
[11:14] <gdh> I have no affiliation with Canonical, etc.
[11:14] <loren> gdh: oh :( i was hoping lol
[11:14] <gdh> http://www.canonical.com/projects/
[11:14] <loren> root: only reason i'm using it KDE ;) lol, well Gnome-look.org is pretty persuading for me to try ubuntu now lol
[11:14] <loren> root: i believe they just released the first stable version as well
[11:15] <root> Yeah, the stable is out according to distrowatch.
[11:15] <gdh> root: Yes, the flash player in multiverse will work fine with Konqueror / Firefox
[11:15] <gdh> at most you might need to click the 'scan for new plugins' in Konqueror
[11:15] <gdh> but you'll never need to copy .so libraries to weird places etc.
[11:16] <root> I used to be a Gnome guy but they get weirder (spatial desktop) and more idiot (read: non-developer) friendly with every release.
[11:16] <kakalto> If I'm backing up all my ubuntu stuff to re-install, what settings, etc. would I likely want?
[11:16] <LeeJunFan> root: I figured that out about 4 years ago :)
[11:16] <gdh> kakalto: The choices are near-infinite. Play with it :)
[11:16] <Jefis> what new is in this release?
[11:16] <loren> root: i liked gnome on older machines
[11:16] <root> It was about 3 for me.  I'm slow like that.
[11:16] <loren> root: that's about it
[11:16] <LeeJunFan> heh
[11:16] <kakalto> near-infinite? I was wanting to re-install today...
[11:16] <kakalto> :)
[11:17] <gdh> kakalto: The defaults will be fine =)
[11:17] <kakalto> where is firefox's settings stored?
[11:17] <guilhermee> I can install Kubuntu Live like Knoppix ?
[11:17] <kakalto> including passwords
[11:17] <gdh> feel free to twiddle
[11:17] <kakalto> guilhermee, no
[11:17] <gdh> guilhermee: No. Live= live only, Install = install only
[11:17] <LeeJunFan> guilhermee: you don't install a live version. you just use it.
[11:17] <guilhermee> uhn.... thanks =)
[11:17] <LeeJunFan> guilhermee: if you want both you'll have to get the DVD version. It has live and install on the DVD.
[11:17] <gdh> .. I do wonder how much work it would be for a single image that could do both....
[11:18] <gdh> since 99% of it must be duplicated...
[11:18] <root> Well, it seems they have all of my hardware supported, I'm off to reformat the laptop.
[11:18] <guilhermee> LeeJunFan, i don't have dvd burner
[11:18] <root> Thanks for everyone's help.
[11:18] <guilhermee> =/
[11:18] <gdh> in fact no ignore me.. one has a giant preinstalled cloop fs, one has a repository of .debs..
[11:18] <loren> np
[11:18] <loren> :)
[11:19] <Jefis> What new is in kubuntu 5.04 ?
[11:19] <gdh> I wish my brain worked faster than my fingers
[11:19] <loren> i need to leave this room before i forget there is a world outside of here, whoah i just realized there is a world outside of here rofl
[11:20] <gdh> :))
[11:20] <kakalto> I'm so stupid
[11:20] <kakalto> I go and backup everything in my home directory...
[11:20] <gdh> .. and forget the dot-files ?
[11:20] <kakalto> but my home directory is on a different partition, so I don't have to wipe it!
[11:21] <_ReDRuM_> who was it in here who said you need half the OS to chroot php?
[11:21] <Thermidor> hello question, where can I mirrors for apt-get
[11:21] <_ReDRuM_> my apache dir is over 100mb now
[11:21] <gdh> kaka a backup is never a stupid idea
[11:21] <Thermidor> find
[11:21] <_ReDRuM_> without any web stuff
[11:21] <buz> _ReDRuM_:  that was me
[11:21] <kakalto> blah
[11:21] <_ReDRuM_> buz: you were right lol
[11:21] <gdh> kakalto: There is your Zen for today :)
[11:21] <Thermidor> hello question, where can I find mirrors for apt-get
[11:21] <kakalto> :S
[11:21] <_ReDRuM_> im half rethinking theres loads of rubbish in here
[11:22] <Thermidor> now I'm using be.archive.ubuntu.com but it's not good, tempory falure resolving
[11:22] <gdh> Thermidor: so guess at country domains? uk.archive .. ca.archive... de.archive? :)
[11:23] <Thermidor> yes but isn't there a website yet?
[11:23] <gdh> probably. asked google?
[11:23] <Thermidor> I've done, but kubuntu isn't that popular yet
[11:24] <gdh> hint: it uses teh same mirrors as Ubuntu :)
[11:24] <Thermidor> :)
[11:24] <gdh> since it /is/ Ubuntu =)
[11:24] <gdh> just with a different default config
[11:25] <Beineri> Jefis: new in kubuntu? Kubuntu is new! :-)
[11:25] <_ReDRuM_> got it working...
[11:25] <_ReDRuM_> bit scared about how much memory this is going to use
[11:25] <gdh> _ReDRuM_: mmm lots and lots :) I guess you're forcing people to use mysql via TCP localhost?
[11:25] <_ReDRuM_> socket
[11:25] <_ReDRuM_> hard linked
[11:25] <Beineri> Thermidor: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/Archive
[11:25] <kakalto> goodbye all, I'm going to go upgrade from whoary to hoary
[11:25] <Thermidor> yes just found this
[11:25] <gdh> gosh that's news.. I didn't even know you could do that into a chroot
[11:26] <Thermidor> thx anyway
[11:26] <ACIDnet> hey, how do i install kde ontop of ubuntu
[11:26] <gdh> brief.
[11:26] <Beineri> ACIDnet: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallingKDE
[11:27] <Beineri> some people are too lazy to search for the simplies info and too stupid to wait for an answer :-|
[11:27] <Ben2004uk> heyt
[11:27] <Jefis> anyone
[11:28] <Jefis> tell what's the difference
[11:28] <gdh> welcome back ACIDnet :)
[11:28] <Jefis> i have downloaded kubuntu in two weeks ago
[11:28] <Ben2004uk> gdh: :)
[11:28] <Jefis> but ir works fine
[11:28] <Ben2004uk> so how do i do it?? install kde??
[11:28] <Beineri> gdh: no ACIDnet
[11:28] <gdh> Jefis: So wait for the 5.04 release then dist-upgrade :)
[11:28] <gdh> Beineri: same hostmask<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:29] <Jefis> gdh, and what's new?
[11:29] <Jefis> :)
[11:29] <gdh> Jefis: hundreds of bugfixes! :)
[11:29] <Jefis> really?
[11:29] <Beineri> Ben2004uk: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/InstallingKDE
[11:29] <gdh> sure, and Other Stuff
[11:29] <Jefis> what bugs?
[11:29] <gdh> upgrade and find out =)
[11:29] <_ReDRuM_> anyone think of a really crazy php script that will tax things to check it's all as it should be?
[11:29] <Jefis> haven't got anyone
[11:29] <gdh> ffs, do you want me to list them all?
[11:29] <Jefis> yeah
[11:30] <Jefis> some of them
[11:30] <Beineri> Ben2004uk: http://kubuntu.org/documentation.php
[11:30] <gdh> please find a clue at the door as you leave, kthx =)
[11:30] <Ben2004uk> Beineri: Cheers mate
[11:30] <Ben2004uk> im liking Xorg
[11:31] <Jefis> gdh, so what, i have to download, burn, and format everything?
[11:31] <Ben2004uk> hmmm 100mb download
[11:32] <Jefis> i starting to have it, can't find new features, bug fixes, and other stuff
[11:32] <Jefis> :(
[11:32] <gdh> Jefis: no, you dist-upgrade - that's thw whole point of any debian-based distro
[11:33] <gdh> it upgrades the software you already have installed
[11:33] <gdh> that's what 'Kynaptic' does
[11:33] <_ReDRuM_> kpackage :)
[11:33] <gdh> this is not Red Hat / MDK :)
[11:33] <_ReDRuM_> kynaptic is umm.... err... ...
[11:34] <Jefis> "My system is up to date"
[11:34] <Jefis> cool
[11:34] <Jefis> :)
[11:34] <_ReDRuM_> jefis use kynaptic to install kpackage you won't regret it
[11:34] <gdh> _ReDRuM_: sssh! :)
[11:34] <_ReDRuM_> ok :)
[11:35] <Jefis> _ReDRuM_, kynaptic said it's up2date :)
[11:35] <treke> today is certainly the worst possible day to need to install ubuntu :)
[11:35] <gdh> yis, /huge/ last-minute changes
[11:42] <ataxic> hmm , i
[11:42] <ataxic> oops
[11:42] <ataxic> kdesu seems to not accept my root password
[11:42] <ataxic> it is correct
[11:42] <Verwilst> pfff...
[11:42] <Verwilst> kubuntu is waaaay slow
[11:43] <Verwilst> on multimedia-area
[11:43] <ataxic> su works on a terminal
[11:43] <Verwilst> movies don't play fluently, sound skips, ... :(
[11:45] <ataxic> anyone else having problems with kdesu?
[11:45] <ataxic> it returns with a msg window: Su returned with an error
[11:45] <ataxic> thats all
[11:46] <gdh> ataxic: have you tried entering the password for the user which you logged in as?
[11:46] <ataxic> yeh i have tried both
[11:46] <gdh> since kdesu is patched to use 'sudo'
[11:46] <ataxic> but now i dont even get a chance to type a password
[11:46] <gdh> Sorry, I don't know enough about that subsystem to be able to help much :/
[11:47] <ataxic> i have to run programs from a terminal after suing to root :/
[11:47] <ataxic> thats a bit annoying
[11:47] <phxguy> he didnt tell me
[11:48] <phxguy> has anyone installed kdm theme manager successfully
[11:48] <gdh> ataxic: and you're up to date with dist-upgrade et al?
[11:49] <ataxic> just installed it
[11:49] <ataxic> burned the disk an hour ago, do i have to run smt manually to update it?
[11:50] <gdh> how did you manage to set a password for the root user?
[11:51] <incubii> sudo passwd root
[11:53] <gdh> incubii: thanks for joining in mid-stream :)
[11:53] <gdh> It's not something I want to do, etc.
[11:53] <incubii> heh
[11:54] <incubii> and good day in deed. i might be at work on a saturday all alone, but i get to stuff around with kubuntu release
[11:54] <gdh> oh it's actually gone 'gold' ?
[11:55] <incubii> lol read the topic
[11:55] <incubii> Topic is: Kubuntu 5.04 Is Out!  http://www.kubuntu.org/hoary-release.php | Feedback please: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/KubuntuHoaryReleaseComments
[11:55] <gdh> incubii: oops :)
[11:57] <incubii> :P
[11:57] <loren> is that the official final release?
[11:57] <incubii> yes
[11:57] <loren> #flood
[11:57] <incubii> i wonder if they fixed the kmenu side image from sayin 5.4 to 5.04
[11:57] <loren> rofl
[11:57] <loren> didn't notice that lol
[11:58] <insanekane> for some reason, after installing the livecd to harddisk, kdesu doesnt work ... anyone have any ideas on this ?
[11:59] <phxguy> anyone???? anyone at all????
[11:59] <gdh> phxguy: KDM theme manager? never heard of it.
[11:59] <gdh> You're that desperate to change the picture at login? sheesh.
[12:00] <tmk> where is mc?
[12:00] <tmk> i miss my lovely midnight commander
[12:00] <gdh> tmk: Then go back to Slackware :)
[12:00] <tmk> suse
[12:00] <phxguy> when its that ugly yes
[12:00] <incubii> lol
[12:00] <gdh> tmk: It's probably in universe
[12:00] <tmk> gdh: thx
[12:01] <incubii> or multiverse
[12:01] <gdh> 'main' for Ubuntu is on the CD, universe is 'all the rest' ... multiverse is 'non-free' ....
[12:01] <gdh> mc won't be non-free I'm sure.
[12:01] <tmk> gdh: there he is, thx
[12:01] <gdh> =)


[00:11] <mib_uxwl3xgk> I need support but can't get to the support channel because of my IRC client, can anyone help?
[00:12] <LjL> mib_uxwl3xgk, can't you connect using a real client? like from port 8001?
[00:12] <mib_uxwl3xgk> no, not with this machine.  I can't install anything new on Ubuntu, am using a web-based client
[00:13] <LjL> mib_uxwl3xgk: ok, hold on a minute please
[00:13] <mib_uxwl3xgk> sure
[00:14] <LjL> mib_uxwl3xgk: please try to join #ubuntu now
[00:15] <mib_uxwl3xgk> thanks LjL look like I am there
[04:57] <greg-g> hello, I am I recently approved Ubuntu Member and I would like to graciously request my ubuntu/member cloak
[04:59] <nalioth> greg-g: got a launchpad account?
[04:59] <greg-g> greg.grossmeier
[05:00] <Zelut> greg-g: how gracious of you :)
[05:02] <greg-g> Zelut: :)
[05:02] <greg-g> I felt like adding some flare to my request ;)
[05:08] <greg-g> nalioth: is there anything else you need from me?
[05:09] <nalioth> greg-g: i'll get it figured out
[05:09] <greg-g> nalioth: ok, just ping me if you need me
[05:13] <greg-g> nalioth: just got the confirmation email, thanks
[14:41] <LjL> ubotu should be back into all channels it used to be, please tell me if that's not the case
[14:54] <etretyak> Hi! Can I get a cloak?
[14:55] <jpatrick> etretyak: ubuntu cloak of unafflicated?
[14:55] <etretyak> jpatrick: ubuntu
[14:55] <jpatrick> etretyak: if Ubuntu, please give us a link to your Launchpad page
[14:55] <etretyak> http://launchpad.net/~etretyak
[14:56] <etretyak> jpatrick: I've changed my nick from `iRon' to etretyak.. becase iRon was registered by someone else. :)
[14:56] <jpatrick> etretyak: ...well that explains it
[14:57] <jpatrick> etretyak: have you set an email for your nick and linked it to an alternative?
[14:57] <jpatrick> etretyak: Freenode recommends: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup
[14:58] <etretyak> jpatrick: yes i've done all steps from this faq page
[14:59] <jpatrick> etretyak: excellent, please wait till nalioth comes back for your cloak, and PriceChild will add you to the cloaked people group.
[14:59] <etretyak> Thanks!
[14:59]  * PriceChild looks in
[15:00] <PriceChild> etretyak: please /msg nickserv info and paste it into a PM for me so I can check before I ask for the cloak.
[15:00]  * jpatrick runs for the hills
[15:01] <PriceChild> and wow this is -irc
[15:02] <jpatrick> yeah, most people come here asking for cloaks for some reason...
[15:02] <Pici> I personally like them asking in here than in -ops
[15:03] <etretyak> jpatrick: I asked here because it is described in LP/~ubuntu-irc-cloaks page
[15:03] <LjL> hey, this *is* the right place for this
[15:04] <jpatrick> etretyak: ah, cool
[15:04] <PriceChild> yeah but no-one's ever read that before :)
[15:04] <LjL> i read it!
[15:04] <LjL> wait, i wrote it too :P
[15:05] <PriceChild> etretyak: please '/msg nickserv info' and paste it into a PM for me so I can check before I ask for the cloak.
[15:06] <PriceChild> gah
[15:06] <PriceChild>  /msg nickserv info etretyak
[15:06] <LjL> PriceChild: no, the one you gave works too
[15:06] <jpatrick> PriceChild: same thing here
[15:06] <PriceChild> good good then
[15:08] <PriceChild> etretyak: you need to register a secondary nickname and link it to the first, see http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup and ask for help here if needed.
[15:08] <etretyak> hm.. i did this
[15:08] <PriceChild> what you pasted to me in pm says you didn't
[15:09] <PriceChild> if you linked it correctly, /msg nickserv info would tell you all the nicknames linked
[15:09] <etretyak> do i need to disconnect and connect to server again with another nick? and ther register it?
[15:10] <etretyak> *then
[15:10] <LjL> etretyak: /nick <newnick> will let you change nick
[15:10] <LjL> without disconnecting
[15:13] <PriceChild> etretyak: you should now be cloaked :)
[15:13] <jpatrick> PriceChild: you have cloaking powers? :-/
[15:14] <PriceChild> Nope.
[15:15] <etretyak> got it! thanks!
[15:16] <LjL> PriceChild: the right answer is "define powers" :P
[15:16] <PriceChild> jpatrick: define powers.
[15:16] <PriceChild> 8-)
[15:16] <PriceChild> I can request cloaks.
[15:16] <PriceChild> I can't do the nickserv magic myself though.
[15:57]  * jpatrick waves at Zic and effie_jayx
[15:57] <effie_jayx> jpatrick,  sir how are ya
[15:57] <Zic> hi :)
[15:57] <jpatrick> effie_jayx: I'm not a sir
[16:00] <jpatrick> effie_jayx: and I'm fine, but tired.
[16:00] <effie_jayx> jpatrick,  can imaigne... how's school?
[16:00] <jpatrick> effie_jayx: great now
[16:01] <jpatrick> fetova: o/
[16:02] <fetova> hola jpatrick :D
[16:02] <jpatrick> fetova: si, todavia siguo con vida
[16:03] <jpatrick> Zic: I thought as -fr op, I'd drag you in here
[16:03] <Zic> no problem :)
[16:03] <fetova> jajajajaja :D
[16:04] <fetova> jpatrick: tuviste que despedirte de tu ISP?
[16:04] <Zic> arrêtez où je parle français :)
[16:04] <Zic> ou*
[16:04] <jpatrick> fetova: nah, estoy en la biblioteca
[16:05] <fetova> :P
[16:05] <jpatrick> Zic: I studied French 6 years, forgot it all - shame...
[16:05] <Zic> quel dommage jpatrick :}
[16:06] <jpatrick> fetova: but I still understand it :)
[16:06] <fetova> what?, jpatrick, french?
[16:06] <jpatrick> Zic: ^
[16:07] <Zic> :)
[16:08] <jpatrick> fetova: that and german
[16:09] <fetova> jejejeje, chingon :)
[16:10] <Zic> personne d'autre à part jpatrick parle/écrit/comprend le français ? tsss
[16:18] <no0tic> oui/yes, if you understand english :)
[16:19]  * jpatrick hugs no0tic
[16:20] <LjL> Zic: j'ai compris ce que tu ais dit, donc je ne sais pas :)
[16:21] <Zic> ah, zut :)
[16:21] <Zic> no0tic: great
[17:51] <dngnmstr> hello is this message visible?
[17:52] <dngnmstr> im trying to get Pidgin to connect to IRC and not sure if its working.
[17:52] <Pici> dngnmstr: yes.
[17:52] <dngnmstr> excellent.  thankyou very much.
[17:57] <atoponce> nope. can't see it
[18:50] <Zelut> atoponce: smart mouth
[19:04] <atoponce> heh
[19:17] <xarquid> who you heheing at?
[19:18] <atoponce> Zelut
[19:18] <xarquid> ah
[19:18] <xarquid> heh


[17:25] <mfisch> hggdh: ping
[17:27] <hggdh> mfisch: pong
[17:28] <mfisch> hggdh: I'd like to get the community more involved in helping with Nexus7 bug triage, especially filing upstream, looking for upstream duplicates, etc
[17:29] <mfisch> hggdh: I've considered an email to bug squad, asking you personally for help, etc.  Ideas?
[17:29] <hggdh> mfisch: let's get balloons involved
[17:30] <hggdh> mfisch: I think email to bugsquad, bugcontrol, and ubuntu-quality would be good
[17:30] <hggdh> balloons: ^
[17:32] <hggdh> mfisch: of course, you can ask me directly (well, pretty much just did it ;-)
[17:32] <hggdh> mfisch: and I will certainly help
[17:32] <mfisch> hggdh: cwayne and I spend more time than we'd like triaging rather than working on fixes
[18:50] <ali1234> how can i see a list of nexus7 bugs?
[18:51] <cwayne> ali1234: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-nexus7
[18:51] <ali1234> thanks
[18:51] <cwayne> np
[20:10] <ArcticLight> hi there~
[20:11] <ArcticLight> I think I need help filing a bug
[20:13] <ArcticLight> ubuntu-bug seems to be misbehaving on my system, and I have a crash report I want to file.
[20:15] <ArcticLight> um... is anyone here?
[20:17] <mfisch> what is ubuntu-bug doing?
[20:31] <Pici> ArcticLight: actually, there was a question asked, but you had parted right at that moment.
[20:32] <Pici> 15:17:25 <mfisch> what is ubuntu-bug doing?
[20:32] <ArcticLight> Hi, sorry~
[20:33] <ArcticLight> Um... It's not doing anything, that's the problem. I have a .crash file I'm trying to send, and choosing "S" for send report causes it to quit and it never opens my browser to file the report.
[20:35] <mfisch> hmm
[20:35] <mfisch> does ubuntu-bug log anywhere?  I've never seen that before
[20:35] <ArcticLight> I have no idea, but here's what it looks like in my terminal: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1356408/
[20:36] <ArcticLight> It hangs before "Please choose" and pressing S at the hang makes it print "please choose" and quit.
[20:36] <mfisch> Dumb question but do you need to hit cap S?
[20:37] <ArcticLight> Tried that, same thing.
[20:39] <ArcticLight> Okay, so here's something weird. Two files just popped up in /var/crash: they have the same name, but end in ".upload" and ".uploaded", I still have nothing open in any browser, which is the usual behavior of ubuntu-bug
[20:39] <mfisch> do you need to be root to read that crash file?
[20:39] <mfisch> some of my crash files have odd permissions too, like 0000
[20:39] <ArcticLight> Running it with sudo does exactly the same thing.
[20:39] <ArcticLight> how would I find out the file permissions?
[20:41] <ArcticLight> Never mind, and the permissions are such that I should have read access to the file without root.
[20:43] <mfisch> ArcticLight: can you do a ls -al
[20:43] <mfisch> ArcticLight: ls -al ./_usr_lib_libreoffice_program_soffice.bin.1000.crash
[20:44] <ArcticLight> here it is:
[20:44] <ArcticLight> xyzzy@Quirlbox:/var/crash$ ls -al ./_usr_lib_libreoffice_program_soffice.bin.1000.crash
[20:44] <ArcticLight> -rw-r----- 1 xyzzy whoopsie 11809149 Nov 13 14:51 ./_usr_lib_libreoffice_program_soffice.bin.1000.crash
[20:47] <ArcticLight> any ideas what's going on?
[20:49] <ali1234> upload and uploaded means the crash files were already uploaded
[20:49] <ArcticLight> So...... where do I finish filing the bug? because my web browser didn't open.
[20:49] <ali1234> you don't
[20:49] <ali1234> it's not possible any more
[20:49] <ali1234> ubuntu-bug sends the crash files to daisy without user interaction
[20:50] <ali1234> you can file a bug on the crashing package by "ubuntu-bug <package>" but there is no way to attach the crash dump to it
[20:51] <ArcticLight> Okay. NM then, sorry for the misunderstanding.
[20:52]  * mfisch didn't know that
[20:52] <ali1234> well if anyone knows better i'd like to know about it
[20:52] <ali1234> i've been trying to figure out how to do it for 6 months
[20:52] <ali1234> see http://askubuntu.com/questions/150476/how-do-i-submit-a-full-bug-report-with-crash-dump-and-steps-to-reproduce
[20:54] <ali1234> you can manually attach the crash dump as a normal file and then set the bug private, but this won't result in a retrace getting done or any of the nice stuff it used to do.
[20:54] <ali1234> see also https://bugs.launchpad.net/errors/+bug/1061049
[20:54] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1061049 in Errors "We should allow users to manually input a linked bug and better present both the create and link options" [Medium,Confirmed]
[20:55] <ArcticLight> Well that's just dandy. Um... thanks for all the help guys.
[20:56] <ArcticLight> Also, wouldn't it be useful if the ubuntu help page for reporting bugs mentioned this behavior?
[20:56] <ali1234> yeah, it's out of date i guess
[20:56] <ArcticLight> Well thanks for the help, sorry for the misunderstanding.
[20:57] <ArcticLight> Maybe it would be a good idea for ubuntu-bug to say it's done uploading? Because when it just quit I thought I had broken it.
[20:57] <ali1234> well it doesn't wait for the upload to finish - it backgrouds it
[20:58] <ali1234> the upload will restart if it doesn't complete
[20:58] <ali1234> which is fun when it tries to upload a 2GB core dump
[20:58] <ali1234> over and over and over again
[20:58] <ArcticLight> Okay, then say it is uploading, or at least something, rather than just quitting. in my experience having any terminal program just "quit" after a selection makes me think it crashed.
[20:59] <ali1234> sure. not many people will see the terminal stuff though
[20:59] <ali1234> normally you just get the apport popup
[20:59] <ali1234> you are right of course
[20:59] <ArcticLight> I installed and enabled apport, and I still don't get the popup when things go wrong. I have to use ubuntu-bug from the terminal
[21:00] <ali1234> you should get the "problem report" thing
[21:01] <ali1234> it looks like this http://i.stack.imgur.com/iwyYZ.png
[21:01] <ArcticLight> Nope. Just silent crashes. At the most useful I get a popup from the application itself saying it crashed. Apport doesn't seem to intervene.
[21:02] <ArcticLight> It did on 12.04 but not on 12.10 when I upgraded. I thought this behavior had been changed~
[21:02] <ali1234> it shouldn't have
[21:02] <ArcticLight> That's weird then.
[21:03] <ArcticLight> My whole system has been a bit off since the upgrade to 12.10 ... I figured it was because of normal development changes, but I guess this isn't supposed to be the case?
[21:05] <ArcticLight> well, more problems to track down then.
[21:06] <ArcticLight> At this point, with all the little issues I've been having, I'm considering doing a fresh install back to 12.04 instead of running 12.10
[21:07] <ArcticLight> Which is sad, because I actually like a lot of the new features of 12.10
[21:07] <ArcticLight> anyway, thanks for the help with the bug reporter.


[05:14] <larsu> good morning!
[05:39] <pitti> Good morning
[05:39] <larsu> good morning pitti!
[05:39] <pitti> hey larsu, wie gehts?
[05:40] <larsu> pitti: gut danke! Superwetter hier :)  Und dir?
[05:41] <pitti> larsu: hier auch, fantastisches 4-Tage-Wochenende
[05:41] <pitti> larsu: mein erster Drachenflug! war fantastisch!
[05:42] <larsu> pitti: toll!
[06:03] <didrocks> good morning
[06:05] <larsu> bonjour didrocks!
[06:05] <didrocks> hey larsu
[06:26] <pitti> bonjour didrocks, ça va ?
[06:27] <didrocks> pitti: ça va, et toi ?
[06:28] <pitti> didrocks: ça va bien, merci ! j'ai eu un week-end magnifique !
[06:28] <pitti> didrocks: my first-ever kite flight, it finally happened :)
[06:30] <didrocks> kite flight?
[06:31] <pitti> didrocks: http://piware.de/fotos/Drachenflug-Jun15/
[06:33] <didrocks> ah nice, you weren't scared before jumping? :)
[06:34] <pitti> didrocks: no, not really -- the guy has done this for 18 years :)
[06:34] <pitti> didrocks: excited yes, but not scared at all
[06:35] <didrocks> ;)
[06:35] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[06:35] <seb128> hey didrocks pitti
[06:35] <didrocks> re seb128
[06:35] <pitti> bonjour seb128 !
[06:39] <seb128> pitti, nice view from the kite ;-)
[06:39] <pitti> seb128: absolutely! it feels just amazing
[06:39] <pitti> the landing with a tandem kite is a bit funny/rough, you basically just slam into the field on your belly and knees
[06:40] <pitti> on a single-person kite you land/run on your feet, much more elegant :)
[06:45] <seb128> hehe
[07:34] <seb128> pitti, touch people were looking for you on friday, they needed a vivid overlay langpack export I think
[07:36] <pitti> seb128: GunnarHj wrote me, he plans to do a langpack update soon
[07:36] <pitti> * Building ubuntu-docs during next week
[07:36] <pitti> * Full export and moving to -proposed around June 15-17
[07:36] <pitti> * Testing June 18 - June 24
[07:36] <pitti> * Moving to -updates around June 25
[07:36] <seb128> pitti, no, I'm speaking about touch
[07:36] <seb128> they want one for OTA4 which is supposed to be rolled out to customers this week
[07:37] <seb128> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1460144
[07:39] <seb128> though seems like German still didn't get translations on e.g https://translations.launchpad.net/dialer-app/trunk/+pots/dialer-app/de/+translate?show=untranslated
[07:39] <pitti> ah, we still do daily RTM langpack uploads
[07:39] <pitti> so that's not what they want any more, then? can/should we stop the RTM ones?
[07:40] <seb128> rtm?
[07:40] <seb128> right, I think that's superseeded by the vivid-overlay ppa
[07:40] <seb128> to check with sil2100 & Mirv I guess
[07:40] <pitti> hm, somehow I remember setting up langpacks for the overlay, it's been a few weeks
[07:40] <pitti> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/stable-phone-overlay
[07:40] <pitti> last update from June 1
[07:40] <pitti> we only do weekly, as that's what LP gives us
[07:41] <sil2100> pitti: yeah, we don't need RTM updates anymore, the overlay ones are sufficient
[07:41] <seb128> k
[07:41] <pitti> (see https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/vivid/+language-packs)
[07:41] <pitti> sil2100: oh cool, then I'll kill that job
[07:41] <sil2100> Thanks :)
[07:41] <pitti> sil2100: do we still use RTM for anything? i. e. ddebs and the like?
[07:41] <seb128> sil2100, somebody might want to email the translators about https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1460144
[07:42] <seb128> sil2100, seems like e.g the german translators didn't pick those up, https://translations.launchpad.net/dialer-app/trunk/+pots/dialer-app/de/+translate?show=untranslated
[07:43] <sil2100> pitti: I'm not aware of any current use-cases, it's just for legacy stuff and bug-tracking currently
[07:45] <sil2100> seb128: do you know if only german is affected?
[07:45] <seb128> sil2100, you mean? I'm sure other teams didn't pick up the new strings yet
[07:46] <seb128> but on the bug pat listed german and spanish as needed
[07:46] <seb128> vrruiz did the spanish translations
[07:46] <seb128> I know the french team did pick those up
[07:46] <seb128> so I guess we would need a least a german translator
[07:46] <seb128> maybe pitti or mvo can help there
[07:47] <sil2100> Yeah, I think this is important as we at least try to have the spanish and german translations correct and usable, we'll try to poke someone for this too
[07:47] <seb128> in fact spanish still needs to be validated
[07:47] <seb128> https://translations.launchpad.net/dialer-app/trunk/+pots/dialer-app/es/+translate?show=untranslated
[07:50] <pitti> sil2100, seb128: doing the German ones
[07:50] <pitti> meh, folks really need to add translator comments
[07:50] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[07:50] <seb128> pitti, the "Got it!" is a button that let you dismiss the tutorial
[07:51] <seb128> if that's what you are refering to
[07:51] <seb128> like "understood"
[07:51] <pitti> with a highly context sensitive language like English it's impossible to do good translations from just one or two short words
[07:51] <seb128> it confused the french translators, had to change it
[07:51] <pitti> "Mobile"
[07:51] <seb128> ah
[07:51] <pitti> as in, "a mobile phone"? a mobile data connection? opposite of "fixed"?
[07:51] <seb128> let me check
[07:52] <pitti> the first and second are very different words
[07:53] <seb128> pitti, the tutorial has

[07:53] <seb128> "mobile"
[07:53] <seb128> so it's to indicate the number is the one from a mobile phone
[07:53] <seb128> like in the contacts list you have land line/mobile/home/work/...
[07:56] <pitti> seb128: ah, thanks
[07:57] <pitti> ok, done
[07:57] <mitya57> attente: in https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel, all addMenu() calls are in #ifdef IS_QT_4..#endif blocks
[07:58] <mitya57> attente: Probably upstream tried to work-around the Qt bug, and now they can remove the work-around and use addMenu() again
[07:58] <seb128> pitti, can you validate the one on https://translations.launchpad.net/messaging-app/trunk/+pots/messaging-app/de/+translate?show=untranslated as well?
[07:59] <willcooke> morning all
[07:59] <seb128> hey willcooke
[08:00] <pitti> seb128: heh, that's my own translation from a minute ago :) I'm not proud of that (it sounds a bit unwieldy), but I can't think of a better one
[08:00] <pitti> seb128: done
[08:00] <seb128> pitti, danke
[08:01] <seb128> pitti, yeah, translations are shared between components so it suggested it there
[08:04] <Laney> ahoy
[08:04] <willcooke> morning Laney, nice day for it
[08:04] <seb128> hey Laney, wie gehts? how was your w.e?
[08:05] <Laney> willcooke: yeah, at last
[08:05]  * Laney actually used sun cream at the weekend
[08:05] <willcooke> \o/
[08:06] <Laney> seb128: good! we had our space 4 cycling ride
[08:06]  * willcooke didnt and is now a bit red
[08:06] <Laney> that was first dreamt up in our sprint room in london
[08:06] <Laney> we got on the news
[08:06] <seb128> what is that?
[08:06] <didrocks> good morning willcooke
[08:07] <seb128> did you bike to the moon and back? ;-)
[08:07] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:07] <seb128> E.T style?
[08:07]  * Laney uploads it
[08:09] <Laney> probably should have compressed this somehow
[08:13] <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/pob.mov
[08:13] <Laney> firefox can't play that for me but totem can
[08:13] <Laney> and now ... u-s-d is crashing on my desktop :(
[08:13] <Laney> assert failure in gsd_rr_something
[08:22] <seb128> Laney, you didn't even speak!
[08:22] <seb128> cool to see things happening
[08:22] <seb128> I wonder what % of daily trips are made with bikes e.g in .nl
[08:23] <seb128> not sure where to place the 10% goal mentioned there in perspective to what is currently done in the u.k and other places
[08:24] <Laney> I think it's about 30% for all trips in nl
[08:24] <Laney> higher if you measure specific things like travelling to school or commuting
[08:25] <Laney> nottingham is like 2.4%
[08:25] <seb128> that's quite a difference...
[08:25] <Laney> the power of design
[08:29] <seb128> yeah, unsure how much there is also mindset playing there
[08:30] <seb128> it's like that if you made a town with perfect infrastructure for bike in .fr or .uk you would still guess twice less people biking that they have in .nl
[08:31] <Laney> maybe so, they have 40 years of this stuff already
[08:32] <Laney> a worry is that if we don't get instant results then this small piece of momentum we have currently will evaporate
[08:33] <larsu> Laney: just two days ago I was thinking that we need more bike lanes now
[08:33] <larsu> the ones we have are so successful that they're becoming overcrowded
[08:33]  * seb128 wishes for less bikes here
[08:33] <larsu> might be only during the sunny days though... (of which we don't have that many)
[08:33] <seb128> (sorry guys)
[08:33] <larsu> seb128: pah!
[08:34] <seb128> it's quite more stressing to be pedestrian here
[08:34] <Laney> hey larsu
[08:34] <larsu> hm? Same as with cars, no?
[08:34] <seb128> no, cars are on roads
[08:34] <larsu> or is everyone riding their bike on the sidewalk?
[08:34] <larsu> hi Laney
[08:34] <seb128> not taking side walks and going in small alleys where you don't expect them
[08:34] <Laney> I was reading this blog by a bike guy who moved from uk to berlin
[08:34] <Laney> https://departmentfortransport.wordpress.com/tag/berlin/
[08:34] <seb128> no, people are just doing crazy stuff with bike
[08:34] <larsu> seb128: ugh. Clearly bikes should be on the road or bike paths
[08:34] <seb128> and drive fast in narrow stpace
[08:35] <seb128> they act like they owned the street and are often dangerous to pedestrians
[08:35] <seb128> at least with cars you know where to expect them
[08:36] <darkxst> seb128, or cars/trucks could respect bikes? Ive been run off the road by taxi's, doored' by idiots and had trucks buzz so close they were mere millimeters from hitting me
[08:36] <larsu> Laney: that street is shitty for bikes, there are better ones parallel to it
[08:36] <darkxst> hey all btw
[08:36] <larsu> hi darkxst
[08:37] <seb128> darkxst, no doubt cars/trucks should respect bikes
[08:37] <larsu> seb128: clearly this is just a problem of policy and enforcment
[08:37] <seb128> darkxst, but bikes should also respect pedestrians
[08:37] <darkxst> seb128, they don't in Melbourne!
[08:37] <seb128> bikers have the same issues than car drivers
[08:37] <seb128> people seem to never car about those who are slower/less heavy than them
[08:38] <seb128> darkxst, I don't say they do
[08:38] <darkxst> seb128, probably a few bad eggs, most cyclists do care
[08:38] <Laney> yeah conflict is a big issue
[08:38] <larsu> seb128: I ride a bike and I do care :P
[08:38] <Laney> they often try to proposed shared cycle and foot paths here as a cheap/easy solution
[08:38] <seb128> larsu, I drive a car and I do care about bikes and pedestrians
[08:38] <seb128> ;-)
[08:38] <larsu> seb128: I never said you didn't :)
[08:39] <seb128> larsu, right, just playing along your reply :p
[08:39] <darkxst> I come across walkers and horse riders all the time, and when we do, slow down and have a chat
[08:39] <larsu> seb128: in general, drivers are pretty good. The problem is that the bad ones are *really* bad
[08:39] <seb128> yeah, same for bikers
[08:39] <larsu> seb128: like going 100 on a 50 street, like I saw yesterday. With lots of pedestrians next to a park...
[08:39] <seb128> right, those people are crazy
[08:40] <larsu> where you should be going 30 just to be careful
[08:40] <darkxst> Laney, anymore thoughts on what to do with the extra shell extensions? demote to proposed until debian update them?
[08:40] <Laney> darkxst: if you want, that's your stuff
[08:41] <darkxst> Laney, that would be my call, I don't think they belong in the archive really
[08:41] <Laney> WTF is going on with usd :(
[08:42] <didrocks> seb128: you don't want to be able to run docker on desktop next?
[08:43] <seb128> didrocks, no!
[08:43] <seb128> who cares about docker :p
[08:43] <didrocks> ok… that's still a valid use case I guess
[08:43] <didrocks> but your call
[08:43] <seb128> yeah, as are other programs
[08:43] <seb128> but Laney suggested we don't need that hack and mvo agreed
[08:44] <Laney> I guess they can keep that on core, it's clearly not going to be the long term solution
[08:44] <didrocks> well, as long as we don't have a way to add system users to snappy…
[08:44] <seb128> they are working on a solution to make group adding work with libnss-extrasusers
[08:44] <didrocks> I just think that some people will install the snappy docker framework on ubuntu personal
[08:44] <didrocks> and will surprised it doesn't work
[08:44] <seb128> yeah, could be
[08:45] <seb128> well, we can do tweaks once the image is working
[08:45] <seb128> maybe libnss-extrasusers is going to be working before the personal image :p
[08:45] <didrocks> let's see ;)
[08:46] <seb128> larsu, your scrollbar work removes the bg from progressbars widgets it seems
[08:47] <seb128> they look like a border only rather than a bar since friday, I reverted to the archive version and that fixed it
[08:47] <larsu> seb128: hm that might well be, I saw some problems with that but thought I removed them
[08:47] <larsu> seb128: do you see that problem in gtk3-image-factory as well?
[08:47] <seb128> yes
[08:47] <seb128> I first noticed in update-manager
[08:47] <larsu> ok, I'll have a look
[08:47] <seb128> confirmed with the factory
[08:47] <seb128> thanks
[08:47] <larsu> after I get this device running :/
[08:48] <seb128> what's the issue? are you blocked on something?
[08:48] <larsu> indeed, the gradient is missing
[08:49] <larsu> seb128: just trying to debug why it doesn't boot with systemd
[08:50] <larsu> seb128: orange line + big time + small date is the lock screen?
[08:50] <larsu> it seems frozen five minutes ago
[08:50] <larsu> (I booted 2 minutes ago)
[08:51] <larsu> backlight still changes when touching and I can turn the screen on and off
[08:51] <seb128> larsu, http://blog.laptopmag.com/wpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Ubuntu_Phone-welcom-screen.jpg
[08:51] <seb128> that's the lock screen
[08:51] <larsu> no that's not it
[08:51] <larsu> it's only the date part
[08:52] <larsu> no flower and no indicators
[08:52] <seb128> weird
[08:52] <seb128> it's like most services didn't start then I guess
[08:52] <larsu> also no adb shell...
[08:52] <seb128> right
[08:52] <larsu> which is only enabled after unlocking
[08:52] <seb128> since you are locked, no shell
[08:52] <larsu> which is very annoying
[08:52] <larsu> can I change that somehow?
[08:53] <seb128> larsu, install a working image, install openssh-server, then change to systemd
[08:53] <seb128> then enjoy the joy of being able to ssh while locked
[08:53] <larsu> if the network's up before the failure I'm seeing...
[08:53] <larsu> ah okay, this too was a systemd isseu
[08:53] <larsu> turns out fastboot -c *does* work
[08:55] <seb128> larsu, you can also "sudo touch /userdata/.adb_onlock"
[08:55] <seb128> to allow adb while locked
[08:55] <larsu> thanks!
[08:56] <seb128> yw
[09:05] <seb128> Laney, can you retry the desktop-next iso build? ;-)
[09:08] <Laney> umm, nope, looks like I can't ssh in
[09:08] <Laney> I got a new ssh key with the laptop, let me ping IS
[09:09] <seb128> thanks
[09:10] <ochosi> Laney: woot, yours already arrived?
[09:11] <ochosi> mine was finally shipped off today, so i suppose it'll be here before the official ETA of june 23rd
[09:11] <Laney> ochosi: ya, it arrived on friday
[09:12] <ochosi> nice, so even earlier than the corrected projected date
[09:12] <Laney> hidpi and browsers is pretty :(
[09:12] <ochosi> hah, you got the QHD+ version?
[09:12] <Laney> indeed
[09:12] <ochosi> yeah, the web isn't really ready
[09:12] <ochosi> so i got the FHD version (also for battery life's sake)
[09:12] <Laney> unity and gtk's scaling both work well
[09:12] <ochosi> cool, i'll have to test that
[09:12] <Laney> firefox doesn't even have an option to set a default zoom level
[09:12] <Laney> you need an extension for that
[09:13] <ochosi> that's meh
[09:13] <ochosi> what about midori?
[09:13] <Laney> don't know
[09:13] <Laney> epiphany seemed quite good though
[09:13]  * didrocks *cough* chromium *cough*
[09:13] <Laney> (also with gestures)
[09:13] <Laney> ah chromium has better sizing but for some reason its UI is huge
[09:13] <ochosi> mhm, that would've been my next question (epiphany)
[09:13]  * Laney has a note to ping chad about that :)
[09:14] <Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/omg.png
[09:15] <didrocks> waow
[09:15] <didrocks> did you compare this with Chrome?
[09:15] <Laney> nein
[09:15] <ochosi> wow, that's really pretty... sad
[09:16] <Laney> I think it only very recently got hidpi stuff at all
[09:16] <Laney> at least in Chromium
[09:16] <ochosi> also, odd how the locationbar looks ok
[09:16] <didrocks> chrome 43
[09:16] <ochosi> seems to be only a font-size problem
[09:16] <ochosi> Laney: and the touchpad works fine?
[09:17] <Laney> yes although I want to turn off the right click area completely
[09:17] <Laney> and just use two finger tap for that
[09:17] <Laney> haven't done it yet though
[09:18] <Laney> fn and ctrl are swapped compared to the macbook I had before (for 5 years)
[09:18] <Laney> that's a bit annoying :)
[09:18] <didrocks> yeah, needing to get some used to for such changes
[09:19] <seb128> Laney, let me know if you get any reply from IS or if I should try to nag Colin or somebody else to retry the build
[09:20] <Laney> seb128: done already, just need to set up the host keys and stuff
[09:20] <seb128> great, thanks
[09:20] <Laney> ok, it is running
[09:21] <Laney> now seriously, I have no idea what in the hell is going on with my desktop and usd
[09:21]  * Laney tries an old kernel just because
[09:22] <seb128> trying to apply a buggy config?
[09:22] <ochosi> Laney: hmm, right-click area doesn't sound very practical. but i'll see when i get mine
[09:22] <seb128> try moving the monitors.xml away?
[09:22] <Laney> I think it's before it gets there but yeah will try
[09:23] <Laney> (it broke on lightdm too)
[09:23] <seb128> weird
[09:24] <seb128> lightdm doesn't use the user config, so not like that
[09:24] <Laney> well I think I copied a monitors.xml somewhere a while ago
[09:24] <Laney> but it definitely didn't change so it would be weird if that broke
[09:24] <seb128> yeah
[09:25] <Laney> ya, still fails
[09:25] <seb128> new gtk issue?
[09:25] <Laney> I've been running that for weeks
[09:25] <Laney> gsd_rr_config.c:661
[09:26]  * Laney needs to rebuild with noopt
[09:30] <seb128> Laney, https://launchpadlibrarian.net/208560074/buildlog_ubuntu_wily_i386_ubuntu-desktop-next_BUILDING.txt.gz
[09:30] <seb128> now it wants me to add all the groups you made me drop on friday :-/
[09:31] <Laney> I thought you copied the list from the system?
[09:31] <seb128> yes, I did
[09:31] <Laney> is this some later change?!?!?!
[09:32] <Laney> "during setup"
[09:32] <seb128> guess so
[09:32] <Laney> this seems to have seeded packages
[09:32] <seb128> not sure to understand what's going on
[09:32] <Laney> I guess those weren't in it earlier on
[09:32]  * didrocks goes for a run before it's too warm outside
[09:32] <Laney> so you have to change the bits that are outputted to /etc/... but leave the hashes the same
[09:32] <Laney> :/
[09:32] <Laney> fun process
[09:33] <seb128> didrocks, enjoy
[09:33] <didrocks> thx
[09:33] <seb128> Laney, like you would apply the diffs from the log to 00-uid-gid-fix.chroot_early ?
[09:34] <Laney> I think so
[09:35] <Laney> I think the hash is the values just after debootstrap
[09:35] <Laney> and then there is another check after all of the seeded packages have been put in
[09:35] <Laney> but that doesn't check the hash again
[09:35] <Laney> (it seems)
[09:35] <seb128> right
[09:35] <seb128> so basically it's putting back the version I had on friday ;-)
[09:35] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[09:36] <Laney> without docker and stuff
[09:43] <seb128> just docker, which was a custom hack on the side
[09:44] <seb128> let's see how that goes, trying to do a local build over lunch, it takes some time but I don't want to abuse the cdimage builders too much
[09:47] <Laney> I should do it for just one arch
[09:54] <flexiondotorg> Laney, I'm just back from vacation.
[09:54] <flexiondotorg> Laney, can we discuss this please? - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-mate/+bug/1456597
[10:10] <Laney> flexiondotorg: in a minute, fixing something atm
[10:10] <Laney> flexiondotorg: you can get your previous sponsor to upload it if you really want to
[10:13] <flexiondotorg> Laney, Thanks. I'll contact some other sponsors. I understand you're concerns and I am making upstream changes where possible.
[10:13] <Laney> okay
[10:13] <flexiondotorg> Laney, I'd like to understand the XDG_CONFIG_DIRS idea you suggested. Not encountered that env before.
[10:14] <Laney> http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
[10:14] <flexiondotorg> Laney, Yeah, already reading that ;-)
[10:15] <flexiondotorg> I'll poke around the code of the apps in questions to see if the use XDG.
[10:15] <flexiondotorg> *they use
[10:19] <Laney> flexiondotorg: I think I'm basically suggesting that if they don't then they should do ;-)
[10:19] <Laney> tjaalton: hi, do you know if xmir made x break abi?
[10:19] <Laney> [    81.641] (EE) Failed to load /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nouveau_drv.so: undefined symbol: xorgMir
[10:21] <Laney> wtf, I don't see exp1ubuntu2.2 in the archive?
[10:21] <Laney> I feel like I'm disconnected from reality this morning
[10:22] <Laney> oh yes, confirming my insanity further, I was typing -intel and not -nouveau :(
[10:29] <Laney> works after a rebuild
[10:49] <Laney> larsu: do you have a patch for the gnome-screenshot white flash issue hanging around?
[10:54] <larsu> Laney: no.. didn't I give that to you at some point?
[10:54]  * larsu cannot find it
[10:54] <Laney> ah, don't know :(
[10:55] <larsu> oops
[11:00] <Laney> why does this work from jhbuild?
[11:01] <larsu> dunno. Different gnome-screenshot?
[11:02] <larsu> I forgot what the issue there was...
[11:02] <larsu> wait - gnome doesn't use gnome-screenshot at all anymore, does it?
[11:02] <Laney> no but we do
[11:03] <larsu> right, and running that against gtk in jhbuild makes it work?
[11:03] <Laney> I get different behaviour with our version
[11:04] <Laney> it prompts for a filename by default
[11:04] <Laney> bet there's a patch
[11:04] <larsu> yes
[11:04] <larsu> it is
[11:04]  * Laney applies this one
[11:05] <larsu> brb
[11:05] <Laney> ah yes this happens
[11:05] <Laney> I suppose because gnome-screenshot just exists otherwise
[11:11] <Laney> larsu: I think the fix was to stop setting the visual on the flash window
[11:15] <attente> mitya57: hey, i was referring to master at this commit: https://github.com/lenky0401/fcitx-qimpanel/commit/05fd858ef84da971a98d4f68b25f4bd897676b43. when i tried running from that point, it still doesn't see those submenus properly
[11:22] <Laney> s/exists/exits/
[11:22] <Laney> hi attente!
[11:22] <attente> hi Laney!
[11:25] <Laney> what's up
[11:28] <tjaalton> Laney: it probably did, blame ancell :)
[11:31] <Laney> tjaalton: bah!
[11:31] <Laney> should $package have changed its name?
[11:32] <tjaalton> what pkg?
[11:32] <Laney> that's what I'm asking
[11:33] <Laney> there's nothing about xmir in nouveau's depends
[11:36] <tjaalton> i'm not sure how the drivers became depending the module..
[11:39] <tjaalton> i'm away this week, vmware already got rebuilt because of something, maybe the same issue
[11:39] <tjaalton> tseliot: ^
[11:39] <tjaalton> so perhaps all the video drivers need to be rebuilt..
[11:40] <Laney> it seems like it had an exported xorgMir symbol before but doesn't now
[11:41] <tjaalton> because xmir is no longer a module but a server of it's own
[11:41] <tjaalton> see the recent announcement
[11:45] <Laney> ah hmm
[11:46] <tjaalton> so a well-tested transition ;)
[11:46] <Laney> I think
[11:47] <Laney> that when I rebuilt nouveau it probably built without the xmir patch being active any more
[11:47] <Laney> #ifdef XMIR
[11:47] <Laney> #include "xmir.h"
[11:47] <Laney> #include "xf86Priv.h"
[11:47] <Laney> #else
[11:47] <Laney> typedef struct xmir_screen xmir_screen;
[11:47] <Laney> #define xorgMir 0
[11:47] <Laney> #endif
[11:47] <Laney> and XMIR isn't defined any more after the new upload
[11:48] <Laney> (that xorgMir symbol was exported in xf86Priv.h)
[12:01] <Laney> tjaalton: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/1462994 fyi
[12:15] <tjaalton> Laney: thanks!
[12:22] <larsu> pitti: my problem turns out to be lightdm dying in a loop, because it can't call ActivateSession()
[12:31] <pitti> larsu: hm, but adb also keeps failing?
[12:32] <pitti> larsu: or, I guess you actually got that working now, to find out the ActivateSession() error?
[12:57] <willcooke> A pigeon just flew in to my window at full speed.
[12:57] <willcooke> I'm pretty sure its dead
[12:57] <willcooke> #birdnews
[12:57] <ogra_> :(
[13:28] <davmor2> willcooke: man no wonder none of our messages get to you
[13:28] <willcooke> :D
[16:59] <seb128> Laney, is that gnome-screenshot hidpi patch a variant from https://code.launchpad.net/~woodrow-shen/gnome-screenshot/fix-hidpi.trusty/+merge/248486 ?
[17:02] <Laney> I saw it there, going to give some feedback soon
[17:03] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[17:03] <Laney> I think gnome-screenshot isn't very active upstream
[17:03] <seb128> Laney, no it's not :-/
[17:03] <seb128> is your patch fixing the linked bug?
[17:03] <seb128> or just addressing part of the issue?
[17:04] <Laney> should do, let me close it
[17:04] <seb128> thanks
[17:17] <Laney> see you!
[19:41] <pat__> cyphermox, hey just ran into https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1436330 its still busted using the latest in proposed
[20:00] <willcooke> morning robert_ancell
[20:01] <robert_ancell> willcooke, hi
[20:17] <willcooke> g'night all


[13:59] <_MMA_> hmm... Where's thorwil?
[13:59] <_MMA_> kwwii: You in the states yet?
[15:07] <kwwii> _MMA_: nope, not till sat
[15:09] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[16:24] <thorwil> hi!
[16:27] <_MMA_> thorwil: Yo. :) I was thinkin' about the CSS engine template. Would it be good to design it like The Widget Factory is laid out? It's a familiar layout that might help people use the template. Just an idea.
[16:28] <thorwil> _MMA_: the button table already says no. now area by area ... maybe
[16:35] <_MMA_> Hmm... Maybe I don't understand how it works yet.
[16:35] <thorwil> why?
[16:36] <_MMA_> I *thought* it just generated a bunch of images from the template.
[17:27] <kwwii> _MMA_: I was thinking along the same lines, but there are some widgets not shown in twf iirc
[17:44] <_MMA_> kwwii: Sure, So that where we deviate.
[17:56] <_MMA_> kwwii: Do we just have an older TWF? Because I see screenshots with more widgets on it lately. More stuff at the bottom. Or an I just missing something?
[18:02] <_MMA_> Oh. Its not official. http://www.opendesktop.org/content/show.php/The+Unofficial+Widget+Factory?content=83361&PHPSESSID=ba3cd71e0e944ce027705692e622f781
[18:02] <_MMA_> Adds "expander" and "Calender".
[18:03] <kwwii> _MMA_: exactly
[18:03] <kwwii> and apparently that version still has some bugs
[18:03] <kwwii> still, I see no reason not to at least roughly base it on the same layout as twf
[18:04] <_MMA_> Kinda odd still. Why this isn't upstream. I wonder if its unmaintained?
[18:04] <_MMA_> What? The template based on TWF?
[18:05] <kwwii> well, in the end the fact that you layout all the widgets in one piece will make it roughly similar
[18:06] <_MMA_> Sure. If done right, it could look *exactly* like TWF.
[18:08] <kwwii> in the end, this is all very close to the hildon template (which is pretty complicated once you get into the fine details)
[18:16] <kwwii> time for dinner, bbl
[18:16] <_MMA_> later
[18:25] <thorwil> 8-]  https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/hildon-theme-plankton/template/template.png
[18:25]  * _MMA_ looks
[18:26] <_MMA_> thorwil: Did you do that?
[18:26] <thorwil> _MMA_: no, i'm just now looking what it is about that hildon template kwwii mentioned
[18:26] <_MMA_> Ahh...
[18:27] <thorwil> http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/ThemingOverview
[18:27] <_MMA_> Oh I see. "maemo"
[18:41] <thorwil> bonsoir nand. as soon as the old version is  out of caching, the brainstorm icon on the participate page will appear fixed :)
[18:43] <thorwil> but right now it looks extra horrible :)  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate
[18:45] <nand> thorwil: oh, you got that fixed? Thanks :)
[18:46] <nand> always been pixxelated
[18:46] <thorwil> nand: np. it felt like a slap in _my_ face ;)
[18:48] <nand> I understand :)


[01:49] <maxb> AHA
[01:49] <maxb> Got it
[01:50] <maxb> The reason all those UDD imports are failing with LockContention is because branch.bzrdir.open_workingtree() gives you a tree whose tree.branch isn't the same branch as the original
[01:50] <maxb> Which isn't unreasonable given the indirection via bzrdir
[06:36] <LarstiQ> maxb: do you need the actual tree in that location? If so, can't you start with it?
[06:43] <lifeless> maxb: thats actually deliberate
[06:44] <lifeless> maxb: keeps the core simple, lets folk do clever things if they need to.
[07:17] <mgz> morning all!
[07:20] <LarstiQ> hei mgz
[07:22] <maxb> LarstiQ: The code flow is such that we already have the branch open when it becomes relevant to want the tree too - at least, without restructuring it a bit
[07:25] <maxb> lifeless: Yes, "... isn't unreasonable ..." = me being happy with bzr core's behaviour
[07:28] <LarstiQ> maxb: and branch.basis_tree() is not sufficient?
[07:29] <lifeless> maxb: cool cool
[07:31] <mgz> ...I missed the context while on bus, this is about relocking issues with new branch objecT?
[07:31] <maxb> Needs to be a WorkingTree
[07:31] <LarstiQ> mgz: yeah, 01:50:14 < maxb> The reason all those UDD imports are failing with LockContention is because branch.bzrdir.open_workingtree() gives you a tree whose tree.branch isn't the same branch as the original
[07:31] <maxb> Yes, a LockContention happens because udd has accidentally aliased the branch object
[07:34] <LarstiQ> jam: if you have some spare cycles, mind having a look at bug 541626 and whether lp:~larstiq/bzr/bug541626 heads in the right direction?
[07:35] <mgz> can you preserve the token from the original lock operation and pass it in when locking the new branch?
[07:35] <mgz> not ideal, really don't want multiple branch objects for the same location
[07:36] <maxb> preserving the token isn't an option - too many layers of code in the way
[07:37] <mgz> hm.
[07:37] <maxb> It's a bit annoying that there isn't a way to open one kind of object from its siblings
[07:38] <maxb> I suppose I'll just rearrange the code in UDD so it can open the WT first and get the Branch from the WT object
[07:39] <mgz> that's what I've done in the past, does feel like there should be a better method
[07:39] <mgz> sometimes you always want the branch but may or may not want the tree
[07:39] <vila> hi all
[07:39] <LarstiQ> moin vila
[07:40] <lifeless> maxb: tree's can't do their thing w.o the branch though
[07:40] <lifeless> maxb: which is why opening the tree implies opening the branch
[07:41] <lifeless> it might be interesting to try having a tree with no operations that need a branch, and branch w none that need a repo
[07:41] <lifeless> I wonder what that would look like
[07:41] <lifeless> e.g. what would 'do a commit' look like.
[07:43] <maxb> lifeless: The issue is, I have a Branch already open, and I really want to just open a WorkingTree using my already open Branch
[07:43] <maxb> Instead, I'm going to have to close my Branch, and open a WorkingTree, which will re-open the branch
[07:43] <lifeless> you could keep your branch, and open a working tree
[07:44] <lifeless> the issue AIUI is that you have the branch write locked.
[07:44] <lifeless> which is rather separate.
[07:45] <mgz> multiple objects are still an issue for other reasons. is branch.repository shared at least?
[07:45] <mgz> if not, you also have two sets of caches.
[07:46] <lifeless> there is a facility to pass in existing transports to various opens()
[07:46] <lifeless> you could extend that for live objects too; though it would depend on url equivalence
[07:47] <maxb> I am keeping my branch and opening a working tree - this results in the branch (and repository) being re-opened
[07:48] <mgz> right, just checked, the repo isn't shared either, that's bad.
[07:49] <mgz> and I don't like the idea of adding an extra param that can get forgotten as the new right way
[07:49] <maxb> Really what I need is for the WorkingTree API to acknowledge that the associated Branch may already be open, and let it be passed in
[07:50] <maxb> It turns out my WT has already been opened once, then discarded, too :-)
[07:50] <maxb> So, I think my answer here is to stop using BzrDir.create_branch_convenience, and do the creation myself so that I can get hold of the return value of create_workingtree
[07:58] <jam> LarstiQ: looks fine to me. You'll probably want to look at the tests in test_btree.py that currently only go against index implementations, (or maybe it is per_index?)
[07:58] <jam> to see if you can get a builder object passing the same _find_ancestors tests.
[08:00] <LarstiQ> jam: aye
[08:02] <maxb> Hm. Actually, if you're doing work on lots of branches in a shared repository, it must be really easy to accidentally reopen the repository every time you open a new branch
[08:02] <mgz> maxb: it is.
[08:05] <maxb> riight, so the udd importer is probably opening repositories N * number-of-existing-ubuntu-series times :-/
[08:06]  * maxb kicks off a test import with the modified code
[08:08] <maxb> gah, thinko, called create_workingtree on the branch not the bzrdir
[08:11] <maxb> It is a bit inconsistent that we have a branch.bzrdir.create_workingtree(from_branch=branch) but no equivalent for open_workingtree
[08:24] <mgz> maxb: point me at the mp when you're ready
[08:26] <maxb> https://code.launchpad.net/~maxb/udd/lockcontention/+merge/104500
[08:46] <mgz> maxb: reviewed. I can deploy to jubany later, or you can do that.
[08:57] <mgz> maxb: from my questions, only real addition that I'd like would be a docstring on create_branch that says what the aim is exactly
[08:58] <mgz> it's kinda just a thin wrapper with some preconfigured bits, maybe the functions that use it need more
[09:04] <maxb> Well, it's only used in two places, and those have little in common
[09:05] <maxb> It might even be appropriate to rename it to an underscore-prefixed name, it's so much an implementation detail
[09:05] <mgz> right, what I'm not clear on is if create_updates_branch needs the tree
[09:05] <mgz> right, underscore or rename would be good.
[10:15] <PaoloRotolo> Hi all!
[10:17] <jelmer> hi PaoloRotolo
[10:19] <PaoloRotolo> I have a problem with Bazaar. I get this error: "paolo@voyager:~/Sviluppo$ bzr branch lp:ubuntu/precise/gnome-control-center
[10:19] <PaoloRotolo> bzr: ERROR: Revision<EMAIL_ADDRESS>not present in "Graph(StackedParentsProvider(bzrlib.repository._LazyListJoin(([CachingParentsProvider(None)], []))))"...
[10:25] <jelmer> PaoloRotolo: see bug 888615
[10:27] <PaoloRotolo> jelmer, thanks!
[13:53] <jml> halp
[13:53] <jelmer> jml!
[13:53] <jml> I just ran 'bzr rmbranch foo' in my colo and now it doesn't work
[13:54] <jml> was in 'trunk', ran 'bzr rm working-public-ip', and now I can't switch branches
[13:54] <jelmer> jml: what version of bzr?
[13:54] <mgz> 2.5.9
[13:54] <mgz> 9? 0.
[13:55] <jml> Bazaar (bzr) 2.5.0
[13:55]  * mgz guesses, need to back port the rmbranch fix still
[13:55] <jelmer> jml: that doesn't have the rmbranch fix
[13:55] <jelmer> so if you specify a branch name, it will try to open the branch containing that path
[13:55] <jelmer> s/branch/control directory/
[13:55] <jelmer> that control directory would be 'trunk'
[13:55] <jelmer> and then it removes the active branch
[14:01] <jml> jelmer: yuck.
[14:01] <jml> jelmer: how do I dig myself out of this?
[14:03] <jelmer> jml: you can create the branch again by running "bzr heads --dead-only" to find the relevant revision
[14:04] <jelmer> and then using "bzr pull -rrevid:REVID --overwrite ." to create the branch again
[14:05] <jml> jelmer: ok. I'll try that.
[14:06] <jml> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/jml/src/lp-dev-utils/.bzr/branch/": location is a repository.
[14:06] <jml> :(
[14:06] <jelmer> jml: try a "bzr init ." first
[14:08] <jml> jelmer: interesting. now when I try that I get: $ bzr switch trunk
[14:08] <jml> bzr: ERROR: Cannot switch a branch, only a checkout.
[14:09] <jelmer> jml: you want "bzr switch -b trunk"
[14:09] <jml> bzr: ERROR: Cannot lock LockDir(file:///home/jml/src/lp-dev-utils/.bzr/branches/trunk/lock): File exists: u'/home/jml/src/lp-dev-utils/.bzr/branches/trunk/lock': [Errno 17] File exists: '/home/jml/src/lp-dev-utils/.bzr/branches/trunk/lock'
[14:09] <jml> break the loc?
[14:10] <jelmer> jml: ah, it already exists
[14:10] <jelmer> sorry, I didn't realize your current branch was just a reference
[14:10] <jml> ah
[14:10] <jelmer> jml: try "bzr rmbranch; bzr co --lightweight file:,branch=trunk ."
[14:11] <jml> jelmer:  that succeeds without error, but then: bzr switch trunk
[14:11] <jml> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "/home/jml/src/lp-dev-utils/.bzr/branch/": location is a repository.
[14:12] <jelmer> jml: what does "bzr branches" say?
[14:12] <jelmer> jml: generally speaking though, I would recommend using something 2.6-ish with colocated branches
[14:12] <jml> jelmer: it lists four branches, including trunk, but none are selected.
[14:12] <jml> jelmer: I'm guessing 2.6 is not in 12.04?
[14:13] <jelmer> jml: no, unfortunately not
[14:13] <jelmer> jml: you can try "bzr switch --force"
[14:13] <jml> jelmer: ok.
[14:14] <jml> jelmer: I think I'll just refetch, and then use heads to pull the branches from the old one into a new colo
[14:15] <jelmer> ok
[14:15] <jml> jelmer: thanks though.
[14:15] <jelmer> jml: I don't think colocated branches are ready for production use, tbh. They're not polished enough.
[14:16] <jml> jelmer: well, I started using them because I prefer the layout, and because I wanted to help polish them as an alpha user
[14:16] <jml> doesn't look like that's going to happen though.
[14:20]  * jml goes temporarily Eeyore
[17:43] <lduros> i'd like to have a diff of all files between two commits
[17:43] <lduros> how can I do this? :-)
[17:44] <jelmer> lduros: bzr diff -r4..5
[17:44] <lduros> bzr diff -rXXX..XX
[17:44] <lduros> ah ok
[17:44] <lduros> :-)
[17:44] <jelmer> to get the diff between revision 4 and 5
[17:44] <jelmer> lduros: :)
[17:44] <lduros> i thought the dots had to be replaced
[17:44] <lduros> with something
[17:44] <fullermd> They're actually upside-down apostrophes.  With amputated tails.
[17:46] <jelmer> fullermd: that sounds like punctuation-abuse to me
[17:46] <lduros> ah
[17:47] <lduros> but does it commits in between
[17:47] <fullermd> You call it punctuation abuse, I call it thursday.
[17:47] <lduros> does it compare all the commits in between
[17:47] <lduros> I meant
[17:47] <fullermd> There's no "in between" really.  There are just two states.
[17:48] <lduros> ok
[17:48] <lduros> how can you tell what revision number you are on currently
[17:48] <lduros> sorry... just learning bzr
[17:49] <jelmer> lduros: 'bzr revno'
[17:49] <lduros> cool
[17:49] <lduros> that shows the latest one though
[17:49] <lduros> if you are using revert -r xxx
[17:49] <lduros> it wouldn't show xxx
[17:49] <lduros> but the latest
[17:49] <lduros> revision
[17:49] <lduros> number
[17:51] <jelmer> lduros: revert doesn't change the revion number
[17:51] <lduros> hmm ok
[17:51] <jelmer> lduros: it justs sets the contents of the working tree to match that of the specified revision
[17:51] <lduros> but it puts the file to a given revision number no?
[17:51] <lduros> ok
[17:51] <jelmer> lduros: to the contents of the file in that revision
[17:51] <lduros> rightok
[17:51] <lduros> no big deal then :-P
[17:51] <lduros> hehe
[17:54] <lduros> at least revision numbers are easier to remember than git sha1 hashes
[17:54] <lduros> :-P
[22:44] <lduros> I've been using bazaar for two weeks, and I really love it
[22:44] <lduros> thanks for making bazaar!
[22:45] <lduros> :-P
[22:45] <lduros> if anybody here is involved with it
[22:46] <lduros> going back in revisions is much simpler than git
[22:50] <lifeless> lduros: excellent
[22:50] <lduros> lifeless: I had to find a subtle bug, which I introduced I didn't know where, hundred commits ago
[22:50] <lduros> I went back, revert commit 10 by 10
[22:51] <lduros> until I narrowed down to the revision that had an issue
[22:51] <lduros> this in git was a headache for me
[22:51] <lduros> with the hashes
[22:51] <lduros> maybe there's a better way to do it in git
[22:51] <lduros> than I would
[22:52] <lifeless> I believe many folk would use git bisect
[22:53] <lifeless> there is a bisect tool for bzr as well
[22:53] <lifeless> it just automates (and optimises) the process of narrowing down a change
[22:54] <lduros> lifeless: hmm
[22:54] <lduros> but you need to automate the test no?
[22:54] <lduros> which is not that easy to do in my case
[22:55] <lduros> since it requires starting firefox, navigating to a certain page and performing a certain task :-P
[22:56] <lduros> in any case, the fact is that with bzr I didn't need to learn about something like bisect
[22:57] <lduros> i could do it using the revision numbers
[22:57] <lduros> makes more sense to humans :-P
[22:57] <lifeless> nah
[22:57] <lifeless> you can
[22:57] <lifeless> but you can also just use it to go one step
[22:57] <lifeless> check yourself
[22:58] <lduros> ok
[22:58] <lifeless> then say 'problem still exists' vs 'problem is gone'
[22:58] <lifeless> and it decides to go further back or forwards
[22:58] <lduros> ok
[22:58] <lduros> so you're convincing me to use git :-P
[22:58] <lduros> hehe
[22:59] <lifeless> not at all
[22:59] <lduros> just kidding
[22:59] <lifeless> I'm saying that there is a tool, that both systems have, that can help with the problem you had
[22:59] <lduros> i know, got it :-)
[22:59] <lifeless> I think its great - its a design goal - that with bzr you didn't need the tool ;)
[22:59] <lduros> yeh
[23:11] <dOxxx> lduros: in git you can also use HEAD~10 to refer to the 10th revision before the tip of the current branch
[23:12] <lduros> dOxxx: maybe, but then HEAD~10 changes if the tip of the current branch changes
[23:12] <lduros> you can't turn off your computer, or even write the revision number on a piece of paper
[23:12] <lduros> :-)
[23:12] <lduros> was just saying I love revision numbers
[23:13] <lduros> because I like to use my brain
[23:13] <lduros> :-P
[23:13] <lduros> maybe people despise that because it's not really being a power user
[23:13] <lduros> but it's being a power user with your brain, ... sort of
[23:25] <dOxxx> heh
[23:26] <dOxxx> you don't need to use the whole git hash. you can usually just use the first 6-8 digits and it should be unique enough
[23:26] <lduros> yeh but even that many it makes no sense
[23:26] <dOxxx> but yeah it's not easy as -r500 -r490 etc
[23:26] <lduros> there's no succession
[23:26] <lduros> yeh
[23:28] <dOxxx> btw, as a solution to the tip changing problem, you can use a hash with the ~10 syntax as well, so like abc123~10 would be the 10th commit before the revision whose hash starts with abc123
[23:28] <lduros> with bzr?
[23:28] <lduros> yeh
[23:29] <dOxxx> git
[23:29] <lduros> yeh, realized afterwards
[23:29] <lduros> i don't like it as much
[23:29] <lduros> :-P
[23:29] <dOxxx> heh
[23:33] <lduros> so is that bzr bisect: http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/plugins/en/bisect-plugin.html
[23:34] <lifeless> yes
[23:34] <lduros> cool
[23:44] <lduros> just wrote a little post :-P incorporated some of what you lifeless and dOxxx said. Hope that's ok with you. I bet many people will despise me for what i'm saying in there, anyway... http://lduros.net/posts/why-i-think-bazaar-better-git/
[23:46] <dOxxx> "A simple bzr -r 610..611 allowed me" -> "A simple bzr diff -r 610..611 allowed me" ;)
[23:47] <dOxxx> but good post :)
[23:47] <dOxxx> explaining *why* you prefer one to the other may help somebody else decide which they should try first because the same thing would bug them