[07:39] <thorwil> godbyk: hi! a bit late to mention it, but one issue i see with "click-and-hold" is that "click" refers to mouse-button-press-and-release
[07:40] <godbyk> thorwil: Agreed. I think the hyphenate detracts from that notion a bit, though.
[07:41] <godbyk> I guess generally, I'd use "press-and-hold" when I was trying to first describe dragging something..
[07:41] <godbyk> but then afterward just say "drag".
[07:41] <godbyk> I think "click-and-hold" is supposed to refer more to a "long press" of the mouse button.
[07:41] <godbyk> e.g., what you had to do on old Macs to bring up the context menu (since you only had one mouse button).
[07:42] <godbyk> (I think you could also use Option+click or some other modifier, too.)
[07:42] <thorwil> yes. drag only matches, if there's an object that can be dragged. it's not a good fit for interactions like using a menu within one "click"
[07:42] <godbyk> We should try to be consistent with the GNOME documentation as long as they're not too far off base. (I'm not against overriding their opinion if I think they're in error. :-))
[07:43] <godbyk> I should've made the menu example more explicit. I was referring to the Mac-style context menus, not the typical pull-down menus.
[07:45] <thorwil> how about just "hold the (left) mouse button"?
[07:46] <godbyk> That could work, too.
[07:47] <godbyk> I guess I'd have to see where we're using it in the manual to offer a more specific opinion.
[07:47] <godbyk> The examples Hannie cited seem more amenable to "drag," but that presupposes that the reader knows how to do that.
[07:48] <godbyk> Having said that, we did long ago establish that we assume the reader has basic computer skills (i.e., knows how to turn the computer on, how to use the keyboard and mouse, etc.) and presumably some of the common terminology that goes along with all that.
[07:50] <thorwil> if we assume readers might not understand "drag", then the pertinent thing to do is explaining it once
[07:53] <thorwil> godbyk-tablet: what kind of tablet?
[07:53] <godbyk-tablet> Asus Transformer Prime
[07:56] <thorwil> nice. "transforemer prime"? silly marketing folks, why not add an "optimus" in there? :)
[07:56] <godbyk-tablet> Ha! I know.
[07:56] <thorwil> http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/YCVuI.jpg
[07:57] <godbyk-tablet> That's awesome!
[07:58] <godbyk-tablet> I like this tablet. I got it because it has a snazzy keyboard dock.
[11:23] <thorwil> godbyk: in ".. is a comprehensive beginner's guide designed for the Ubuntu operating system." should there perhaps be a comma after "guide"?
[11:24] <thorwil> anyway, lulu en cover with dimensions from last time pushed
[13:28] <godbyk> thorwil: Thanks for the cover. We may have to adjust the dimensions a bit once the final manual is complete (as the dimensions are dependent on page count).
[13:30] <godbyk> thorwil: With regards to the comma, it's not needed in that sentence.
[14:00] <thorwil> ok


[00:19] <ploxiln> it looks like the EC2 AMI for hvm-ssd has not been generated in cn-north-one since 2018-11 - sorry to pop out of nowhere with a question, but where would be appropriate to report/ask about this?
[00:20] <ploxiln> s/cn-north-one/cn-north-1/
[00:21] <sarnold> jamespage: ^^ is ec2 hvm-ssd image problems on cn-north-one something you'd tend to?
[00:21] <ploxiln> well, correction: for xenial the last was 2018-11, for bionic the last was 2019-01. also it looks like non-hvm AMIs are still being generated regularly
[01:58] <ChmEarl> when my 19.04 server goes down with multiple ssh client windows, I don't get notifications and the shells stay open
[02:16] <ploxiln> ChmEarl: I don't have any definitive fixes, just some tips and tricks. 1) if the ssh session is frozen/stuck, type <enter>~.
[02:16] <ploxiln> (including the period)
[02:17] <ploxiln> 2) you could "pkill sshd" as your user on the server, to close all ssh sessions for your user before shutting down the server
[02:17] <ploxiln> 3) you could try "sudo shutdown -r +1"
[02:18] <sarnold> ChmEarl: you could also set ServerAliveInterval in your ssh clients, but the downside is the sessions will be much more likely to timeout if a router dies
[02:22] <ChmEarl> ploxiln, sarnold  thanks
[06:06] <lordievader> Good morning
[10:16] <jamespage> sahid: you might just want to pick the patch from https://review.opendev.org/#/c/663294/
[10:16] <jamespage> sahid: its still needed
[10:17] <jamespage> sarnold: fraid not
[10:18] <sahid> jamespage: i've kept it https://git.launchpad.net/~sahid-ferdjaoui/ubuntu/+source/neutron/tree/debian/patches/bug1826419.patch?id=6153732fec521d0a3d8044ad59a26acc6d05f083
[10:19] <jamespage> sahid: ah sorry I was confused by the diff of a diff
[10:19] <jamespage> sahid: yes that looks OK to me
[10:19] <sahid> ok cool perfect
[14:01] <kevindank> Hello, im about to migrate a website from shared hosting on bluehost to cloud hosting on Linode, the main goal is site load time improvement, does a dedicated cpu plan make a difference here?
[14:01] <kevindank> My plan was to get a ubuntu 19.04 server with 16gbs of ram, 320gb SSD, and 8 core cpu but theres another plan offering smaller ssd and more cores
[14:05] <leftyfb> kevindank: I would not recommend 19.04 for a server. Not unless you plan on upgrading it in 7 months. Stick with LTS.
[14:06] <kevindank> leftyfb: 18.04 lts?
[14:06] <leftyfb> kevindank: yes, that is the latest LTS
[14:06] <leftyfb> supported for 5 years from release
[14:06] <kevindank> okay
[14:08] <TJ-> kevindank: no, you don't need a dedicated CPU linode, the standard will do
[14:08] <kevindank> TJ-: Thanks
[14:09] <TJ-> kevindank: the 2-CPU/4GB is usually enough for most sites; I host several domains on one such that are relatively busy
[14:10] <jamespage> coreycb, sahid: do you think we should start stripping out python- binary packages this cycle? we dropped py2 support in the actual openstack projects, so we could work back down the dependency chain now
[14:11] <coreycb> jamespage: yeah i think so. just need to be careful with swift deps i think.
[14:13] <kevindank> TJ-: That's typically what I use.   I have a website thats on bluehost right now that is maxing out ram,cpu on the bluehost standard server so went with the highter ram plan of 16gb
[14:14] <TJ-> kevindank: what's eating the memory? database?
[14:15] <kevindank> Total CPUs : 16 / 16 Cores Total RAM : 31 GB Real Time Free RAM : 2 GB Real Time RAM Usage :
[14:16] <kevindank> Real Time Free RAM : 1 GB Real Time RAM Usage : 29 GB
[14:16] <kevindank> im pulling that uses wp server stats, im not sure if thats the ram/cpu of the shared server or our site on that shared server however
[14:17] <kevindank> DB is 78mb
[14:18] <kevindank> the site is a lawfirm site, theres a bunch of pages and a chat feature but it should not be using 29gbs by itself at all
[14:27] <TJ-> kevindank: is that in the Linode, or at the shared hosting?
[14:28] <TJ-> kevindank: I'd presume its the shared host and it is over-subscribed
[14:44] <coreycb> sahid: neutron 2:13.0.3-0ubuntu1 uploaded to the cosmic unapproved queue. thanks!
[14:46] <sahid> coreycb: thanks
[19:21] <sarnold> ploxiln: apparently other images are being updated, it's the streams interface that's giving trouble -- eg https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/PM7QMBNm9g/
[19:23] <sarnold> ploxiln: that was generated via aws --profile=china ec2 describe-images --region=cn-north-1 --owners "837727238323" --query 'Images[*] | sort_by(@, &CreationDate)'  --- I don't know enough aws to tell you how to create a 'china' profile like that, but I hope it's something you're familiar with or already done
[19:23] <ploxiln> thanks for looking into it. the one I'm hoping for is 16.04 xenial with type hvm-ssd - I did an explicit search for it and I think that oen is not being generated
[19:24] <ploxiln> so I did: aws ec2 describe-images --filters Name=name,Values="ubuntu/images/hvm-ssd/ubuntu-xenial-16.04-amd64-*" Name=owner-id,Values=837727238323 --query "Images[*].[CreationDate,ImageId,RootDeviceName]" --output text | sort
[19:24] <ploxiln> (with cn-north-1 region)
[19:25] <ploxiln> and got 2018-11-21T07:51:00.000Zami-013ead89472fc7464/dev/sda1 as latest
[19:26] <ploxiln> proper paste: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/bNKnN3sj8T/
[19:29] <ploxiln> bionic does have a newer hvm-ssd image, but the previous is from February, and the one before that from August 2018, so I just get the impression that general china flakyness makes each upload a roll of the dice
[20:49] <Ussat> So I get a CALL......a Dr is having trouble with his linux system. Its running...wait for it.....Ubunti 14.04
[20:50] <Ussat> I almost laughed in the phone
[20:52] <compdoc> whats his phone number. I want to laugh at him for reals
[20:54] <sdeziel> Windows XP I would have laugh but I'm actually impressed a Dr is using Ubuntu :)
[20:56] <compdoc> tiz good stuff
[21:16] <Ussat> We are taking it, burning it in the deepest darkest corner of hell and making hime a VM under my controll
[21:29] <Ussat> sdeziel, it wasnt as much him "useing" it per se, his grad student set it up so he could run a few programs specific to his work
[21:29] <Ussat> but ya we are burning it down...hard


[15:04] <bdmurray> How bad sectors does it take to make an installation failure?
[15:05] <bdmurray> bug 879662
[15:05] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 879662 in ubiquity "installer crashed with IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/target/usr/sbin/policy-rc.d' during system installation" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/879662
[15:06] <cjwatson> if the kernel can't read it you lose
[15:07] <cjwatson> (or write to it, depending on what we're talking about)
[15:07] <bdmurray> well that one has 2 bad sectors but I've seen other messages where it says something along the lines of a hopeless number
[15:07] <cjwatson> this should all be lower-level than the installer; if the installer has to concern itself with bad sector count then the system is hopelessly fucked
[15:07] <cjwatson> if you'll pardon the phrase
[15:08] <cjwatson> ntfsresize isn't directly relevant; it may be indicative
[15:10] <cjwatson> the kernel hasn't logged anything directly about the cause of the error, so it's hard to tell
[15:11] <cjwatson> it's possible that it copied bad data from the CD and didn't realise it, or that it read/wrote bad data to/from the hard disk and didn't realise it
[15:11] <cjwatson> although that is Not Supposed To Be Able To Happen
[17:03] <bdmurray> wasn't there a recent bug like bug 388060?
[17:03] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 388060 in casper "netboot insall of live cd results in a manual network interface configuration" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/388060


[18:01] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[18:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Apr  9 18:01:29 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:01] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:01] <pleia2> ok, who all is here for our Ubuntu Women meeting? :)
[18:01] <Cheri703> o/
[18:01] <Dolasilla> o/
[18:02] <Deindre> °/
[18:02] <karenesq> o/
[18:02] <Cheri703> Deindre getting all fancy ;)
[18:02] <IdleOne> \o
[18:02]  * karenesq waves to pleia2
[18:02] <Deindre> Cheri703: :P
[18:02] <pleia2> #link http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/Agenda
[18:02] <IdleOne> \  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) /
[18:02] <pleia2> ^^ Agenda
[18:03] <pleia2> #topic -R Blueprint
[18:03] <pleia2> #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org/+spec/community-r-ubuntu-women-project-goals
[18:03] <pleia2> karenesq: nice to see you!
[18:03] <karenesq> likewise pleia2! :D
[18:03] <pleia2> Cheri703: care to update us on Career Days plans?
[18:04] <Cheri703> Deindre is going to do one in May!
[18:04] <pleia2> (looking at the blueprint, a few volunteers still outstanding there)
[18:04] <Cheri703> We need to sort out a date/time with classroom, but May for sure
[18:04] <Deindre> Cheri703: I'll be ready when you prefer
[18:04] <pleia2> great :)
[18:05] <Cheri703> So pleia2, would you be able to check, or should I find someone else to poke about it?
[18:05] <pleia2> Cheri703: just drop by #ubuntu-classroom-backstage when you're ready to schedule, we all can chat there about timing (me + other classroom team folks) since I'm not sure when Open Week is going to happen
[18:06] <Cheri703> ok, will do
[18:06]  * Cheri703 adds to to-do list
[18:06] <pleia2> (and I'll be out of town)
[18:06] <pleia2> any luck contacting any of the other women from the blueprint about career days stuff?
[18:06] <Cheri703> >_> no, because I haven't
[18:06] <pleia2> if not, we might want to mark them as POSTPONED on the blueprint (end of the cycle is fast approaching!)
[18:07] <pleia2> ok, next cycle then :)
[18:07] <Cheri703> Yeah, that's fine :s
[18:07]  * Deindre suggest to invite karenesq to our carreer day, if she please :)
[18:08] <Cheri703> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/CareerDays
[18:08] <karenesq> Deindre: I've been reading up. they look really fun :)
[18:09] <Deindre> :)
[18:10] <pleia2> Cheri703: hate to put you on the spot again, but UW contest? :)
[18:10] <Cheri703> hehe, just pinged Pendulum, but I don't think she's around
[18:10] <Cheri703> but I can go ahead with what I have
[18:10] <Dolasilla> shall we postpone to next cycle as well?
[18:10] <Cheri703> probably
[18:10] <Cheri703> but I can explain what has been decided so far
[18:11] <Cheri703> there will be 3 winners chosen at random out of fully correct submissions, winners will get a choice of EITHER ubuntu earrings/necklace in their choice of gold/silver color, OR an HD webcam
[18:12] <Dolasilla> sounds cool! who's providing the HD webcam?
[18:12] <Cheri703> we still need to sort out "official rules", and get the questions/volunteers dealt with too
[18:12] <Cheri703> I am :)
[18:12] <Cheri703> Some of our UW folks contributed some money to help me attend UDS a few years ago
[18:12] <Cheri703> I am now at a financial point that I can repay that, and all accepted that that money can go back into UW
[18:12] <Cheri703> so I'm getting the prizes
[18:13] <pleia2> you rock
[18:13] <Cheri703> but really the group is getting the prizes :)
[18:13] <IdleOne> very awesome
[18:13] <Dolasilla> yeah...indeed!!
[18:13] <karenesq> wow so great Cheri703
[18:13] <pleia2> Cheri703: I'm wondering if we do want to just postpone this until you've finished your move?
[18:13] <Dolasilla> you rock Cheri703!! :)
[18:13] <IdleOne> +1
[18:13] <Dolasilla> pleia2, +1
[18:13] <pleia2> I'll be back then too
[18:13] <Deindre> +1
[18:14] <Cheri703> Honestly I'm good either way, if we get volunteers and the quiz questions and whatnot sorted out, it shouldn't be too labor intensive, but yeah, postponing is fine
[18:14] <IdleOne> there is still a lot to do from the looks of it, better to have all available hands on deck
[18:14] <pleia2> at least having all of us around to help promote it would be good :)
[18:15] <IdleOne> that too
[18:15] <pleia2> I'll update the blueprint in a bit
[18:15] <Cheri703> and for the record (in case anyone wants to share info about it, though I'd think we'll write up some "press release") all 3 winners can choose either jewelry or webcam, so if we give out 3 webcams, awesome, 2 webcams and jewelry, fine too :) both options are about the same cost
[18:15] <pleia2> since we have karenesq here and I don't want to keep her too long, jumping over to OPW now
[18:15] <pleia2> #topic GNOME Outreach Program for Women
[18:15]  * Deindre agrees :)
[18:16] <pleia2> Deindre: can you introduce?
[18:16] <Deindre> ok, thanks
[18:16] <karenesq> I don't mind hanging out
[18:16]  * karenesq might come more often!
[18:16] <Deindre> karenesq: you will be always welcome :)
[18:17] <karenesq> :)
[18:19] <IdleOne> Am I lagged?
[18:19] <pleia2> Deindre, karenesq, care to explain what OPW is, and how UW can assist?
[18:19] <pleia2> IdleOne: no :)
[18:19] <karenesq> I'm still waiting for Deindre but I bet she's typing
[18:19] <pleia2> ok
[18:20] <Deindre> OPW  is a program to approach women to FOSS:
[18:20] <karenesq> but I'll also chime in about it and if you get double the explanation, no big deal! :)
[18:20] <pleia2> I've been working with (I'm not a mentor, she's just working on the team I work on) an OPW intern in my openstack work, it's awesome :)
[18:20] <karenesq> it's like GSoC, but specifically inviting women (or anyone who identifies as a woman) to join
[18:21] <Deindre> every years the major FOSS project are involved in, and this is held by GNOME Foundation
[18:21] <karenesq> the program was working so well for GNOME that we realized we should expand it to other projects
[18:21] <karenesq> and the round that just closed (where Deindre participated as a GNOME intern), we had 25 interns across 11 projects
[18:21] <IdleOne> nice
[18:22] <karenesq> sorry, actually 10 projects, as Tor wound up not being able to accept an applicant
[18:22] <karenesq> looks like this round we're going to have even more projects
[18:22] <Deindre> Karen Sandler is the executive director of the GNOME Foundation and I'm very happy to have her here today :)
[18:22] <Dolasilla> question: is it a full time internship?
[18:22] <karenesq> heh, I should have introduced myself it's true. thanks Deindre!
[18:22] <karenesq> it is, Dolasilla, though there are some participants with some other commitments that we've accepted in the past
[18:23] <Dolasilla> ok
[18:23] <pleia2> so Ubuntu applied for, but was declined participation in the google summer of code this year
[18:23] <karenesq> it's a bit on a case by case basis, we don't want to rule out someone who has obligations towards childcare, for example
[18:23] <karenesq> oh pleia2, I didn't notice that
[18:23] <karenesq> yet
[18:23] <karenesq> that's too bad!
[18:23] <karenesq> MediaGoblin was also not accepted to GSoC but they are still participating in OPW
[18:23] <pleia2> could some ideas ben transferred to OPW projects? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GoogleSoC2013/Ideas
[18:24] <karenesq> yes, pleia2!
[18:24] <karenesq> but we also accept other kinds of projects too, if the organization is interested in that
[18:24] <karenesq> like marketing, design and documentation projects
[18:24]  * pleia2 nods
[18:24] <karenesq> it depends on where the mentors and applicants are, really
[18:25] <karenesq> some of the things that we've done to make OPW work is:
[18:25] <karenesq> 0. specifically target women so that they know they can apply, that the program is for them
[18:25] <karenesq> 1. require an initial contribution with the application - that way applicants get in touch with mentors straight away
[18:25] <karenesq> and have help in getting started
[18:26] <karenesq> which is often cited as a reason why women don't get involved
[18:26] <karenesq> it also helps the orgs evaluate whether the applicant is a good one
[18:27]  * pleia2 nods
[18:27] <Deindre> and, unlike other internship in FOSS, OPW is addressed to coders and no-coders
[18:27] <karenesq> for example, Deindre saved GNOME from an embarrassing mistake in our campaign materials before she even got started!
[18:27] <pleia2> :)
[18:27] <karenesq> 2. we emphasize mentorship as the most important part of the program. If there aren't dedicated mentors then it's just not going to work. We're currently brainstorming ways to make this better
[18:28] <karenesq> 3. we've included a travel stipend component of the program so that we can help women get to the key conferences
[18:28] <karenesq> so for Ubuntu I think the relevance is twofold
[18:29] <karenesq> X. ubuntu women should feel free to apply to any of the existing internships, especially the GNOME ones! :D
[18:29] <karenesq> Y. we'd love it if Ubuntu could join as a participating org
[18:29] <karenesq> I've been in email contact with Jane and now Jono about Canonical committing funds to this for Ubuntu
[18:30] <karenesq> (and Mark left a great supportive message on Deindre's blog!)
[18:30] <karenesq> if not this round, then maybe the next one - we do two per year, one for the northern hemisphere summer and one for the southern
[18:30] <pleia2> yeah, it would be great if Canonical could handle the funds
[18:30] <karenesq> to participate an organization has to have committed funding for at least one OPW intern
[18:31] <IdleOne> How much funding is usually needed?
[18:31] <IdleOne> I mean in $
[18:31] <karenesq> we're asking for $5750 - $5000 for the intern (because that's what GSoC pays and why should women make any less?)
[18:31] <karenesq> $500 for a travel stipend
[18:32] <karenesq> and $250 for an administrative budget, which we're willing to waive if it's a hardship for any org to join
[18:32] <karenesq> (bear in mind that it costs us $90 for just the wiring fees to pay an intern outside of the US, all of which has been coming out of the GNOME Foundation general funds, as the program scales we just can't swing it)
[18:33] <Dolasilla> does the program have a fixed duration?
[18:33] <karenesq> it does!
[18:33] <Dolasilla> same for any project?
[18:34] <karenesq> june 17-sept 23
[18:34] <karenesq> we follow the GSoC dates as much as possible
[18:34] <Cheri703> you should assign an intern to find cheaper ways to pay internationally >_>
[18:34] <Cheri703> :)
[18:35] <karenesq> the idea is also that some of the OPW applicants we get don't even know about GSoC or think they won't get accepted for some reason
[18:35] <karenesq> so we also encourage them to apply for that
[18:35] <karenesq> then they are OPW participants, even though they're in (and funded by) GSoC
[18:35] <karenesq> sorry Deindre, I kind of took over :/
[18:35] <karenesq> Cheri703: heh. Well, we do paypal too, but there are fees there as well
[18:36] <Deindre> You're very exhaustive :)
[18:36] <karenesq> and we try to bear the fees rather than passing them on to the participants
[18:36] <karenesq> I'm very excited  :)
[18:36] <bkerensa> Sounds like a great program
[18:36] <karenesq> this time we have Fedora and Debian participating already
[18:36] <IdleOne> it does
[18:36] <karenesq> so it would be awesome to have Ubuntu as well
[18:37] <karenesq> but even if Ubuntu can't participate this time, it would be awesome to let Ubuntu Women know that there are these opportunities
[18:37] <Deindre> I'm very excited about seeing other UW as participant of OPW and Ubuntu as part of project :)
[18:37] <karenesq> and help us spread the word!
[18:37] <pleia2> so we just had bkerensa join us a few minutes ago, he was one of the folks who worked to get the GSoC application submitted
[18:37] <Cheri703> Did I miss it? What does OPW stand for?
[18:37] <karenesq> outreach program for women!
[18:37] <karenesq> :)
[18:37] <Cheri703> that's what I was thinking, thanks :)
[18:38] <pleia2> this is all pretty exciting, thanks karenesq
[18:38] <karenesq> np, pleia2!
[18:39] <Cheri703> thanks!
[18:39] <IdleOne> karenesq: How many hours of work per week is typical for the interns. I realise the more time an intern has the better, but do you have an average?
[18:39] <Deindre> I would really thanks Karen to have accepted my submission, working with her has been awesome!
[18:39] <pleia2> I don't have time this time around (about to run off for about a month), so I encourage others who are able to step up to see about working on this
[18:39] <karenesq> even though expanding the program to other projects is detrimental to GNOME in that we get less funding for our own interns, it's way worth it to help free software generally and provide opportunities to women
[18:40] <karenesq> IdleOne: we do expect a full time commitment. I don't think anyone has actually counted hours in the past, being satisfied with a job well done
[18:40] <karenesq> :)
[18:40] <bkerensa> karenesq: typically what do you anticipate the time commitment of org mentors/coordinators
[18:41] <karenesq> IdleOne: but I would roughly expect 40 hours per week
[18:41] <karenesq> bkerensa: it varies greatly
[18:41] <karenesq> it's like GSoC
[18:41] <IdleOne> considering the amount paid to the intern that sounds fair
[18:41] <karenesq> ideally mentors designate a regular meeting time
[18:41] <karenesq> weekly
[18:42] <karenesq> and then just checking in to make sure that interns aren't stuck
[18:42] <karenesq> some interns require a lot more time than others
[18:42] <bkerensa> karenesq: Are interns generally expected to have a comp sci background of sorts?
[18:42] <karenesq> I was a co-mentor this time, but I wouldn't recommend that unless both co-mentors are willing to act as if they are the main mentor :)
[18:43] <karenesq> bkerensa: we welcome applicants of all sorts. But we do need to see that they can handle the work. Usually the answers to the questions and their first contribution let us know where they are
[18:43] <karenesq> of course preference is given to applicants who demonstrate a knowledge and commitment to free software
[18:44] <karenesq> and if it's a serious coding project, serious coding knowledge is required
[18:45] <karenesq> oh one more thing
[18:45] <IdleOne> I don't know if you mentioned it but are they all coding projects?
[18:45] <karenesq> I also offer my services as a fundraiser to the projects that join, in case they think that there are companies that might fund it
[18:45] <karenesq> IdleOne: no, there are also marketing and documentation internships but it varies by project
[18:46] <bkerensa> Ubuntu has a major need for documentation help right now
[18:46] <Deindre> karenesq: and design too
[18:46] <karenesq> at GNOME, for example, we had one intern who came in as a marketing intern, then loved it so much she learned to code and applied to GSoC
[18:46] <karenesq> because of her OPW experience, her GSoC application was very strong and was accepted
[18:46] <karenesq> right Deindre!
[18:47] <karenesq> oh another thing - we make some infrastructure available to support interns (and mentors too)
[18:47] <karenesq> this is less relevant to ubuntu-women where you already have your own excellent supprot structure :)
[18:47] <karenesq> but we have #opw on GimpNet
[18:48] <karenesq> and a channel for mentors and organizers too
[18:48] <karenesq> as you know this kind of thing is very important
[18:48] <karenesq> :)
[18:49] <karenesq> <shameless plug for gnome>this is why I love working at a nonprofit like the GNOME Foundation - we're organized to make the whole free and open source software community better!</shameless plug>
[18:49] <pleia2> :)
[18:50] <karenesq> though I'm doing more and more of this stuff at night to be honest, since it's taking up so much time
[18:50] <pleia2> well I think we have enough information to see about moving forward on this (if we can get volunteers :))
[18:50] <karenesq> cool!
[18:51] <karenesq> this is a shortlist of what you need as an org: https://live.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen#For_Organizations_and_Companies
[18:51] <karenesq> and https://live.gnome.org/OutreachProgramForWomen/Admin/GettingStarted
[18:51] <karenesq> let me know if I can help, and I'm always around to answer any other questions that come up
[18:52] <karenesq> I'm sometimes just "karen" here on freenode
[18:52] <pleia2> thank you!
[18:52] <karenesq> thanks for giving me the chance to talk about it!
[18:52]  * karenesq stretches her fingers
[18:52] <Dolasilla> :)
[18:53] <Dolasilla> it was extremely interesting, karenesq
[18:53]  * Deindre waves
[18:53] <pleia2> #topic Plans for Virtual Ubuntu Developer Summit coming up May 14-16
[18:53] <karenesq> :)
[18:53] <pleia2> so real quick
[18:53] <pleia2> http://mhall119.com/2013/04/uds-13-05-ubuntus-second-online-developer-summit/
[18:53] <pleia2> #link http://mhall119.com/2013/04/uds-13-05-ubuntus-second-online-developer-summit/
[18:54] <pleia2> next virtual UDS is May 14-16, Ubuntu uses Google Hangouts for these now
[18:54] <pleia2> I'll be creating a blueprint soon and moving things over
[18:54] <pleia2> Dolasilla, Dolasilla & Cheri703 - if you could help prep for a session the week of 14-16 that'd be great (I'll be coming home on the 13th after being unreachable and out of the country)
[18:54] <pleia2> I can attend the session (and run it, if needed)
[18:55] <pleia2> s/ Dolasilla/ Deindre
[18:55] <pleia2> :)
[18:55] <Dolasilla> pleia2, any specific topic or UW in general?
[18:55] <Cheri703> I will be RIIIIGHT in the last stages of packing (leaving on the 18th), but I should be able to attend a session
[18:55] <bkerensa> Will there be a virtual Ubuntu Women Dinner?
[18:55] <pleia2> Dolasilla: just like what we've had at real UDS in the past
[18:55] <pleia2> bkerensa: hah
[18:55] <bkerensa> ;)
[18:55] <Dolasilla> ok
[18:55] <Cheri703> might have to make some sort of neck mount for my phone like they have for harmonicas...then I can be on video while I work
[18:55] <pleia2> Dolasilla: pretty much just planning what we'll do in the next cycle
[18:56] <Dolasilla> pleia2, I just have time contraints due to the full time job, but if it's going to be Europe-time evening it's fine for me
[18:56] <pleia2> it runs 1400 UTC to 2000 UTC
[18:56] <pleia2> so we can just see about getting a late timeslot
[18:57] <Dolasilla> yup, how does it work to get a time slot?
[18:57] <pleia2> nag jono, I think :)
[18:57] <Dolasilla> lol
[18:57] <pleia2> mostly just wanted to mention this, we can chat informally after I create the blueprint
[18:57] <Dolasilla> pleia2, we can have a chat / email exchange off line in which you can pass me some instructions :)
[18:57] <IdleOne> jono dholbach will be handling Community track and balloons
[18:57] <pleia2> Dolasilla: yep!
[18:58] <pleia2> thanks IdleOne
[18:58] <pleia2> thanks for coming everyone, great meeting :)
[18:58] <Cheri703> thanks karenesq!
[18:58] <Cheri703> and everyone!
[18:58] <IdleOne> Thank you and big thanks to karenesq very interesting project
[18:58] <pleia2> indeed!
[18:58] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[18:58] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Apr  9 18:58:47 2013 UTC.
[18:58] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-women-project/2013/ubuntu-women-project.2013-04-09-18.01.moin.txt
[18:58] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-women-project/2013/ubuntu-women-project.2013-04-09-18.01.html
[18:58] <Deindre> thanks karenesq and thanks everyone :)
[18:59] <Dolasilla> thanks! :)


[06:51] <Riddell> morning
[06:51] <Riddell> apachelogger: sure put amarok beta on kubuntu.org if you want
[06:57] <jdrab> hi guys is this type of warnings/notices somehow important? KConfigGroup::readXdgListEntry: List entry _whatever_ in "some_desktop_filel.desktop" is not compliant with XDG standard (missing trailing semicolon)?
[07:01] <Riddell> jdrab: nope but feel free to add in the semicolon if it bothers you
[07:02] <jdrab> ty Riddell
[07:03] <jdrab> it doesn't bother me but it looks ugly in konsole :P
[07:03] <Riddell> turn off debugging in kdebugdialog if it's annoying, it's off by default (or should be) for that reason
[08:21] <Riddell> debfx: did you say there was a package missing a copying file?
[08:22] <debfx> Riddell: kde-base-artwork
[08:23] <debfx> and audiocd-kio doesn't have a license for its docs
[08:24] <debfx> same for libkcddb and probably some others
[08:26] <Riddell> debfx: hum any idea where kde-base-artwork is upstream?
[08:27] <debfx> Riddell: it's in svn
[08:27] <debfx> apparently git can't handle large wallpapers
[08:31] <Riddell> kde-base-artwork done
[08:36] <debfx> yay
[08:37] <debfx> so today is 4.8.4 release day and we have one broken and one semi-broken tarball ...
[08:37] <tazz> fun
[08:40] <Riddell> debfx: is that actually going to be released?  not waiting on more patches?
[08:42] <debfx> they are not public yet so there is still hope that they will be fixed
[09:06] <annma> hi, are they packages for Kubuntu for 4.8.80?
[09:08] <Riddell> annma: we're working on them, you need them by the weekend?
[09:08] <annma> users ask them
[09:08] <annma> well beta2 will be tagged
[09:08] <annma> so no need to work on beta1
[09:09] <annma> I thought I saw a bug report from Kubuntu with 4.8.80 so I wanted to be sure there are none
[09:09] <Riddell> oh there's still need, I'm fixing problems with beta 1 right now (upstream licencing, distro packaging etc)
[09:09] <Riddell> no public ones yet
[09:10] <annma> OK I'll answer the user, thanks a lot Riddell
[09:21] <yofel_> bulldog98: what's "libpkgs_gen_strict_local_shlibs = kapman" ?
[09:35] <yofel> nvm
[09:41] <yofel> bulldog98: why did you add that though?
[09:52] <yofel> hm, did DEB_NO_COMPRESSION=1 loose it's effect? Here all packages are xz compressed anyway.
[10:54] <yofel> kubotu: newversion digikam 2.6.0 http://sourceforge.net/projects/digikam/files/digikam/2.6.0/
[10:54] <kubotu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1009943
[11:07] <apachelogger> Unable to create io-slave: klauncher said: Error loading 'apturl %u'.
[11:07] <apachelogger> no goody goody
[11:08] <apachelogger> yofel: dunno, amarok had a manual xz entry
[11:08] <apachelogger> which then of course overrides whatever pkg-kde does
[11:10] <debfx> yofel: you need to set DEB_NO_XZ=1
[11:10] <yofel> ah, thx
[11:11] <apachelogger> wah?
[11:11] <apachelogger> Oo
[11:11] <apachelogger> sicne when?
[11:11] <apachelogger> and why?
[11:11] <yofel> well, the current equivalent for DEB_NO_LZMA I guess
[11:11] <debfx> since I uploaded pkg-kde-tools to the ninjas ppa
[11:11] <debfx> it's not in the archive yet due to beta freeze
[11:12] <apachelogger> yeah, but where is that var name change from?
[11:12] <debfx> I changed the compression from lzma to xz
[11:12] <apachelogger> mhhh
[11:12] <apachelogger> debfx: please compat var handling
[11:13] <apachelogger> lzma is algorithm equivalent to xz, no point in explicitly requiring everyone to change their rcs
[11:17] <debfx> hm yeah we should change the var handling anyway
[11:18] <debfx> DEB_NO_COMPRESSION=1 shouldn't require DEB_NO_{XZ,LZMA}
[11:20]  * yofel wonders what the point of libkdegamesprivate is
[11:20] <yofel> it's full of public symbols, which were in libkdegames before mostly
[11:20]  * Peace- packaged on ppa plasma pannel collection
[11:20] <Riddell> yofel: no abi compatibility usually?
[11:21] <apachelogger> yofel: share symbols across kde games, while not being abi compat
[11:21] <apachelogger> hence why it is private
[11:21] <yofel> nah, they bumped the SOVERSION of libkdegames to 6
[11:21] <apachelogger> ^^
[11:21] <apachelogger> yofel: because they moved the symbols
[11:21] <yofel> ah well, let's see what happens
[11:22] <apachelogger> apparently the symbols are only useful to a very specific set of apps in kdegames, so they created a lib for those symbols
[11:24] <yofel> ah, that makes sense then
[11:30] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kdegames] Philip Muškovac * 155 * debian/ (22 files) (log message trimmed)
[11:30] <CIA-44> * New upstream beta release - drop packages for libraries that were removed
[11:30] <CIA-44> upstream: + libkggzgames4 + libkggzmod4 + libkggznet4 - switch libkdegames5a
[11:46] <yofel> Riddell: do we have a kde-l10n packaging equivalent for calligra-l10n or did you upload those by hand so far?
[11:48] <Riddell> yofel: I think I just did it by hand
[11:49] <yofel> ok
[11:49] <Riddell> bash for loops make it easy to do for me
[11:49] <yofel> yeah, that's what I'll do too unless you've got a script lying around?
[11:50] <Riddell> I don't
[11:50] <yofel> k
[11:55] <ikonia> guys, have you got/considered writing a guide to "how to give us a bug report" eg: the info needed, the steps you would want doing / confirming before the bug even hits you
[11:56] <ikonia> I'm struggling to guide someone in how to give you valid/solid info, and wondered if you had anything written up
[11:58] <Riddell> there probabaly are bits but out of date
[11:58] <Riddell> and hidden in a wiki somewhere
[11:58] <yofel> hum, we do have a bug reporting page, but that's so old it's better not to point people to that
[11:59] <ikonia> I'm seeing some pretty big holes trying to guide this user, would it be helpful to put something together, I've certainly seem some obvious holes that would waste development time confirming
[11:59] <ikonia> or is it not something that crops up often enough to warrent concern
[11:59] <ikonia> I'm seeing it quite key because this users information is totally different than what he's putting in bug reports because he "didn't think"
[12:00] <ikonia> but one user does not a problem make
[12:00] <yofel> the releavant page is https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Bugs/Reporting - but that hasn't been updated since lucid or so, and it's mostly focused on apport which isn't the case today
[12:01] <Riddell> and of course most bugs should go upstream unless you have reason to think it's a kubuntu specific one
[12:01] <ikonia> that's probably more of a valid point than I'd considered
[12:02] <ikonia> most of the issue I'm seeing shouldn't really be seen by someone working on the upstream process though as they are just nonsense and lacking solid info
[12:02] <ikonia> that however is not your problem, thank you for the thoughts,
[12:03] <Riddell> it is if we don't get bug reports upstream when they should be
[12:03] <ikonia> I agree with that, but if the bug report to upstream is "I'm using kubuntu 12.10 and blah isn't working" then you find out it's a bodged 12.04 with some 12.10 packages and some manual hacks, it's a wate of everyones time
[12:04] <ikonia> I'll ponder how to best address it
[12:04] <Riddell> upstream should ideally have a page with info for each distro even if it's just a link back to us, but like the "where to download kde" question it's fiddly to solve right
[12:04] <ikonia> that would be a good bit of info yes
[12:04] <ikonia> or maybe each distro valide it's an upstream bug and pass on with solid info
[12:04] <ikonia> but then that's a resource/time waste
[12:05] <Riddell> yeah that's why we gave up on doing that
[12:05] <ikonia> oh, so you did try that
[12:06] <Riddell> that's still the preferred way in ubuntu and debian and the like, it means most bugs just end up rotting
[12:08] <ikonia> that may explain the 20,0000000000000+ in launchpad
[12:09] <ryanakca> apachelogger: I can't forward everybody from #kubuntu-bugs to #kubuntu-devel without being an op in #kubuntu-devel according to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuide#Forwarding_Users
[12:09] <ryanakca> (and my attempts at doing so)
[12:10] <ikonia> ryanakca: I can get that sorted for you if you want ?
[12:10] <ryanakca> ikonia: Sure, if you want
[12:10] <Riddell> ikonia: you have super powers on freenode?
[12:10] <ikonia> it's fine if you're in the middle of it, but I needed to speak to some of the council chaps on something else so I can request it while I'm there
[12:10] <ikonia> Riddell: ha ha, not at all
[12:10] <ikonia> only certain channels
[12:11] <Riddell> oh I can just give ryanakca ops on this channel but I don't recall how right now
[12:11] <ikonia>  /msg chanserv op ryanakca
[12:11] <ryanakca> methinks
[12:11] <ryanakca> oops
[12:12] <ikonia>  /msg chanserv op #kubuntu-devel ryanakca
[12:12] <Riddell> 13:11 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- Channel ryanakca is not registered.
[12:12] <ikonia> (sorry missed out the name of the channel)
[12:12] <ryanakca> or /op ryanakca
[12:12] <ryanakca> ikonia: Feel like joining #kubuntu-bugs to test?
[12:12] <ikonia> sure
[12:13] <ikonia> 13:12 -!- Cannot join to channel #kubuntu-bugs (You are banned)
[12:13] <ikonia> you sure......
[12:13] <ikonia> may want to check those settings ;)
[12:13] <ryanakca>  /mode #kubuntu-bugs +b *@*$#kubuntu-devel
[12:13] <ryanakca> correct?
[12:13] <ikonia> no no
[12:13] <ikonia> that's a ban forward
[12:13] <ikonia> you want a channel forward
[12:14] <ikonia> there is a different syntax I think
[12:14] <ikonia> ahhh I wonder if I can't join as I'm in here
[12:14] <ikonia> hang on
[12:14] <ikonia> perfect
[12:14] <ikonia> there you go
[12:14] <ikonia> works
[12:15] <ikonia> I was already in here so it failed
[12:15] <ryanakca> ikonia: Excellent, thanks!
[12:15] <ryanakca> ikonia: Could you please remove ubot2 from -bugs ?
[12:16] <ikonia> kubuntu-bugs
[12:16] <ikonia> (just checking)
[12:16]  * ryanakca nods
[12:16] <ikonia> no problem, just requested it's removal
[12:17] <ikonia> take a few minutes
[12:17] <ikonia> (only a few people have access to the physical server it runs on )
[12:17] <yofel> ryanakca: can you do the same thing with #kubuntu-testers? That channel is equally useless
[12:17] <ikonia> guys instead of forwarding, may I just suggest having them closed/set to invite only
[12:18] <ikonia> although a forward is fine
[12:19] <ryanakca> yofel: I don't have access to that channel, only Hobbsee and mhb do.
[12:19] <yofel> ah
[12:19] <ryanakca> Given that nickserv hasn't seen mhb in over a year, Hobbsee is your only bet :)
[12:22]  * Riddell wonders how to give ryanakca permanant op powers
[12:22] <ikonia> ryanakca: access list flats
[12:22] <ikonia>  /set
[12:22] <ikonia> oops
[12:22] <ikonia> that was meant for riddle cleawrly
[12:22] <ikonia> clearly
[12:24] <ryanakca>  /msg chanserv access #kubuntu-bugs add foo OP
[12:24] <ryanakca> methinks
[12:24] <ryanakca> where foo is the nick
[12:24] <Riddell> ryanakca: done
[12:25] <ryanakca> Riddell: Thanks
[12:32] <ikonia> ryanakca: that's useful to know, I didn't know op was an alias chanserv would take when setting flags
[12:44] <yofel> in docbooks, the authors don't automatically have the copyright over the docs, but only if they put themselves in the <copyright> section as well, right?
[12:46] <Riddell> yofel: I'm not sure what you mean, authors always have copyright over what they write (unless it's under employment)
[12:46] <Riddell> but debian/copyright can't get every single author especially if they don't give themselves credit
[12:47] <yofel> Riddell: I'm wondering about the kmix one: http://paste.kde.org/494648 - only one author is in the copyright, and one copyright holder isn't in the authors section
[12:47] <yofel> so I'm wondering what to put in debian/copyright
[12:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: re under contract ... depends on the country
[12:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: e.g. france doesn't have copyright assignment
[12:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: probably but I didn't say contract I said employment
[12:49] <Riddell> it's not assignment it's just what happens with employment (in juristication I'm familiar with there's probably exceptions)
[12:49] <apachelogger> ah, true, though I don't remember the details anyway
[12:49] <Riddell> yofel: Documentation copyright © 2010 Gaurav Chaturvedi
[12:49] <Riddell> would be good enough for me
[12:50] <apachelogger> Riddell, yofel: how about just mentioning that documentation copyright lies with their individual authors?
[12:51] <apachelogger> as general purpose solution
[12:51] <yofel> well, I'm *trying* to use dep5, and that doesn't allow such a vague formulation. I'll just put them all in
[12:51] <apachelogger> yofel: it doesn't?
[12:52] <Riddell> I wouldn't accept that in debian/copyright as an archive admin, a name is better than just "whoever wrote it"
[12:52] <apachelogger> yofel: Formatted text, no synopsis: one or more free-form copyright statement(s).
[12:53] <yofel> ah, true
[12:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: both the source and the compiled html contains the information
[12:53]  * yofel re-reads
[12:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: explicitly stating the copyright
[12:53] <yofel> apachelogger: that's exactly what the copyright file should tell you though without reading those
[12:57] <apachelogger> say documentation was initially written 5 years ago by 3 people, translated in 15 languages, the software was since released twice a year every year, betwen releases per language one additional author slammed in a piece of new documentation
[12:57] <apachelogger> that is 153 attributions for documentation alone
[12:58] <apachelogger> apply the same to translations you have 303 attributions for localization
[13:00] <apachelogger> imagine that is dragon ... which has something like 5k sloc, and ~5 attributed copyright holders
[13:05] <apachelogger> say one attribution check takes you on average one minute, after 5 years you spend 300 minutes checking attributions on a signle package :P
[13:07] <BluesKaj> hey all
[13:07]  * yofel blelieve he spent 300 minutes just checking attribution in nepomuk-core *once*
[13:07] <yofel> *believes -.-
[13:08] <apachelogger> my point exactly
[13:08] <apachelogger> aso what the policy says about that
[13:08] <apachelogger> "In addition, the copyright file must say where the upstream sources (if any) were obtained, and should name the original authors."
[13:08] <apachelogger> mind the should and authors
[13:09] <apachelogger> attributed copyright holder ~= author, if you want to do it properly you'd have to also track unattributed contributions by going through the vcs or something :P
[13:09] <yofel> are we going to bother uploading beta1 to quantal? If not I won't repackage stuff to add license copies
[13:10] <apachelogger> yofel: is sufficient stuff packaged to make it testable?
[13:10]  * apachelogger should pack -.-
[13:10] <yofel> from what I see only multimedia stuff is missing
[13:10] <yofel> and broken bindings
[13:11] <apachelogger> throw it in some public PPA then so people can do testing, then upload b2 to quantal
[13:11] <yofel> +1
[13:11] <apachelogger> oh, isn't b2 tagging today?
[13:12] <yofel> it is IIRC
[13:12] <yofel> we *should* hurry up a bit ^^
[13:12]  * apachelogger points out that unlike ubuntu kde actually has an ics file :P
[13:13] <apachelogger> yofel: no time to hurry up, must attribute documenters in detail :P
[13:13] <yofel> well, so far nepomuk is the only license mess I've encountered
[13:13] <yofel> rest is ~fine~
[13:25] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kmix] Philip Muškovac * 1 * (15 files in 4 dirs) import kmix packaging
[13:38] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer] Philip Muškovac * 34 * debian/ (changelog control rules) * New upstream beta release * Drop transitional kdegraphics-strigi-plugins package, moved to meta-kde * Add -dbg package
[14:43] <JontheEchidna> so after alpha1 today we're set to start uploading 4.8.80 to the archive?
[14:45] <Riddell> yep
[14:45] <Riddell> well once 4.8.80 is done and tested in ninjas
[14:50] <JontheEchidna> I guess I'll run a test install from ninjas then ;-)
[14:53] <JontheEchidna> hmm, dist-upgrade w/ ninjas wants to remove kubuntu-desktop
[14:54] <JontheEchidna> Depends: kdemultimedia-kio-plugins, but it is not installable
[14:54] <Riddell> uh oh
[14:54] <Riddell> ah, I'll add in a transition package for that then
[14:57] <yofel> kdepim done?
[14:57] <yofel> (that's what I'm waiting for before upgrading)
[14:57] <Riddell> yofel: worked for me yes
[15:06] <debfx> I hope someone is still running 4.8.3 to test 4.8.4 once kdepim finished building :)
[15:11] <JontheEchidna> My computer at work has 4.8.3, but I've been out sick yesterday and today, so I've not been able to test
[15:11] <BluesKaj> debfx, yes , I'm also on 12.10 tho
[15:13]  * JontheEchidna runs off to town to get some more cold medicine
[15:17] <bulldog98> yofel: that’s for the kapman to be linked against the libkdegamesprivate
[15:18] <bulldog98> yofel: for making it depend against the exact version of that, that’s what the debian guys told me to do with libkdegamesprivate
[15:43] <ulysses> Hello, I installed Rocs on Precise, and the toolbar buttons don't have icons: http://imageshack.us/f/232/rocsprecise.png/
[15:45] <Riddell> sounds like a beastie
[15:45] <ulysses> the icons are installed, but Rocs doesn't use them
[15:46] <yofel> fun, I have those, but here rocs itself has no application icon
[15:46] <ulysses> that's an upstream bug: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=299332
[15:47] <annma_> some icons exists
[15:47] <annma_> Top Center Base Left Right have icons
[15:48] <annma_> ulysses: what does Torles mean?
[15:48] <ulysses> annma_: Delete
[15:48] <annma_> it has an icon
[15:48] <annma_> what version is it?
[15:49] <ulysses> Rocs 1.6.0, KDE 4.8.3, Qt 4.8.1
[15:49] <yofel> release?
[15:49] <yofel> (kubuntu)
[15:49] <ulysses> Kubuntu 12.04 with standard repositories
[15:49] <annma_> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/07/plasma-desktopCOj699.png
[15:50] <annma_> 1.60 KDE 4.8.3
[15:51] <annma_> ulysses: the bug report you mentioned is for the Application icon, not the toolbar icons
[15:58] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/meta-kde] Philip Muškovac * 39 * debian/ (changelog control) Add meta package for kdemultimedia
[16:02] <ulysses> annma_: I see
[16:26] <ulysses> no idea or question?
[16:27] <ulysses> annma_: I wanted to mention this bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=299332
[16:27] <ulysses> but that is still not relevant
[16:28] <annma_> this is the application icon
[16:28] <annma_> not the toolbar icons
[16:29] <annma_> the application icon is the one that appears in the K menu and on top left of the window
[16:29] <annma_> all toolbar icons exist
[16:29] <annma_> you saw my screenshot, right?
[16:30] <ulysses> yes, I saw, and the toolbar icons exist here too, but Rocs doesn't use them
[16:31] <annma> those icons are specific for rocs
[16:31] <annma> so Kubuntuis missing them or your installation is wrong
[16:32] <ulysses> the icons are in /usr/share/kde4/apps/rocs/icons/hicolor/
[16:35] <annma> for me they are in $KDEDIR/share/apps/rocs/icons/hicolor/
[16:35] <annma> $KDEDIR is like your /usr
[16:36] <annma> mine is different
[16:36] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/audiocd-kio] Philip Muškovac * 3 * debian/ (changelog control rules) * drop direct dependency on libkcddb4 for audiocd-kio * make transitional package pull audiocd-kio in * add debug package
[16:36] <ulysses> $KDEDIR is empty for me
[16:36] <yofel> that's unset by default
[16:37] <annma> ulysses: $KDEDIR doe snot matter here
[16:37] <annma> the rest of the path matters
[16:37] <annma> you have a kde4/ I don't have it
[16:37] <annma> in the path
[16:38] <annma> I build and install from kde sources
[16:38] <ulysses> I installed with the package manager
[16:39] <annma> look in  /usr/share/kde4/apps/ for other programs that have an icons/ folder and look if those other programs show their icons
[16:40] <annma> I am saying that it is either a packaging bug or on your installation something is wrong
[16:40] <annma> you need to find out what is wrong as the icons are there
[16:41] <ulysses> Dolphin has a dolphinui.rc, Kate has 16x16 icons, Okular has 16x16 and 32x32 icons
[16:42] <annma> only apps with specific icons will have icons there
[16:43] <annma> generic icons are elsewhere
[16:43] <annma> Kate has only generic icons
[16:43] <annma> try another Edu app if you have one, KLettres for example
[16:43] <ulysses> apt-cache policy rocs says it is 4.8.2
[16:44] <ulysses> but kate is 4.8.3 e.g
[16:48] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/audiocd-kio] Philip Muškovac * 4 * debian/copyright fix copyright syntax
[16:53] <ulysses> I asked someone to install Rocs, he has Ubuntu and the icons appears for him
[16:57] <ulysses> annma: KLettres screenshot: http://imageshack.us/f/189/kelttres.png/
[16:57] <annma> same
[16:57] <annma> icons missing
[16:58] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/audiocd-kio] Philip Muškovac * 5 * debian/ (7 files) * add libaudiocdplugins4 and audiocd-kio-dev packages * add missing install files * used versioned breaks/replaces against kdemultimedia-kio-plugins
[16:58] <annma> the icons exist since ages, I am the KLettresdevel so I know
[16:58] <annma> ulysses: your installation has a problem
[16:59] <ulysses> strange
[17:09] <kubotu> ::workspace-bugs:: [1004593] LFE disappears on 5.1, 4.0 has LFE channel, high pitched squeals (bit shifting?), several ... @ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1004593 (by Abraham Mara)
[17:13] <yofel> apachelogger: did you make kubotu overly verbose?
[17:14] <BluesKaj> must be analog LFE
[17:16] <yofel> Riddell: while dep5 is lax in a few places, please note that the rule for empty lines is the same as in the control file
[17:17] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/ffmpegthumbs] Philip Muškovac * 2 * debian/ (changelog control copyright) * add libswscale-dev and pkg-config to build-depends * fix copyright syntax
[18:01]  * yofel dives into 4.8.80
[18:05] <JontheEchidna> my upgrade's almost done, so far so good
[18:06] <JontheEchidna> I don't think I've ever had a KDE +1 release go so smoothly. :)
[18:19] <yofel> re
[18:20] <yofel> kde-base-artwork is missing and according to the widget I have no battery, but works otherwise
[18:24] <yofel> (the upgrade went without errors btw XD)
[18:24] <annma> the battery missing is fixed
[18:24] <annma> we reverted a commit
[18:25] <yofel> ah, then perfect :)
[18:25] <annma> the Quality Team we set up is working hard
[18:28] <annma> if yo uhave bugs to submit don't forget to set up the version and if it's a regression you can add the keyword "regression"
[18:39] <yofel> will do
[18:42] <shadeslayer> yofel: strangely enough that bug was present in neon as well
[18:42] <shadeslayer> oh wait, it's in KDE 4.8.3 as well
[18:42] <shadeslayer> nvm
[18:49] <shadeslayer> O_O
[18:50] <shadeslayer> yofel: is all of 4.8.80 done?
[18:50] <yofel> most of it so it's upgradable
[18:50] <shadeslayer> ...
[18:50] <yofel> oh, pairs is missig
[18:50] <afiestas> mmm
[18:50] <yofel> *missing
[18:51] <shadeslayer> yofel: are you working on calligra/digikam?
[18:51] <afiestas> anybody knows if gtalk is working on old good kopete?
[18:51] <afiestas> (Kubuntu 12.04)
[18:51] <shadeslayer> it should
[18:51] <yofel> calligra, feel free to take digikam if you want, but make it close #885324
[18:51] <afiestas> shadeslayer: can you test it? or are youusing it?
[18:51] <shadeslayer> yeah, I was looking at that bug :)
[18:51] <afiestas> because it doesn't for me, no error so far
[18:51] <shadeslayer> afiestas: let me test
[18:52] <afiestas> thx
[18:52] <shadeslayer> afiestas: which KDE version?
[18:52] <afiestas> mm whatever kubuntu 12.04 has
[18:52] <afiestas> in master it works for sure I have it configured in my workstation for when ktp breaks xd
[18:56] <shadeslayer> afiestas: yes, wfm
[18:56] <afiestas> wfm?
[18:56] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: Happy Birthday! :D
[18:56] <shadeslayer> afiestas: works for em
[18:56] <shadeslayer> s/em/me/
[18:56] <kubotu> shadeslayer meant: "afiestas: works for me"
[18:57] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: thank you, you are just 3 hours early :)
[18:57] <shadeslayer> stupid humans and their time zones
[18:57] <afiestas> shadeslayer: talk.google.com, 5223 and al 3 checkboxes checked?
[18:57] <shadeslayer> afiestas: heh, yeah :D
[18:57] <afiestas> pse
[18:57] <afiestas> maybe after update
[18:58] <shadeslayer> afiestas: this is on 4.8.3
[18:58] <afiestas> after all the fine-tunning I've done to my worksation, KDE defaults seems mmmm
[18:59] <afiestas> don't wanna say something ugly but ,mmmm moderately horrible?
[18:59] <afiestas> xD
[18:59] <afiestas> for my taste ofc
[19:02] <starbuck> afiestas: docs or stfu :P
[19:03] <afiestas> starbuck: I'd rather do patches to change the defaults  :p
[19:04] <afiestas> since I will have to work on the laptop for the rest of the week I will have time to check what I have changed in the workstation and needs to be changed upstream
[19:09] <skaet> Riddell,   Alpha 1's now published.
[19:16] <afiestas> shadeslayer: update + restart fixed the kopete thing
[19:16] <shadeslayer> heh
[19:16] <afiestas> let's see if rekonq wants to play youtube videos now (sans flash)
[19:17] <shadeslayer> doubt it
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> my 4.8.80 upgrade seems to have gone well :)
[19:17] <JontheEchidna> aside from the battery regression mentioned earlier
[19:19] <afiestas> what's is this package-updater pckager?
[19:19] <annma> battery bug report is https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=301033
[19:19] <shadeslayer> hah
[19:19] <shadeslayer> those black buttons look so out of place
[19:19] <afiestas> http://wstaw.org/m/2012/06/07/plasma-windoweddT2070.png
[19:20] <JontheEchidna> afiestas: that'll download flash for you
[19:20] <afiestas> I didn't ask for it :S
[19:21] <JontheEchidna> apparently you did...
[19:21] <afiestas> I mean, I click on the thing because it said "updates"
[19:21] <afiestas> and I do want updates, I don't consider flash one xD
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> yofel, Riddell: now that the archive is open again and we have (at least) two confirmed good upgrades to 4.8.80 from ninjas, I'll start uploading the packages to quantal
[19:24] <JontheEchidna> feel free to join in ;-)
[19:24] <shadeslayer> yofel: any reason why you have a copyright in digikam-2.5.0/debian/copyright ?
[19:24] <yofel> JontheEchidna: wait
[19:25] <JontheEchidna> ok
[19:25] <yofel> pairs should be added to kdeutils metapackage in meta-kde
[19:25] <yofel> it's not packaged yet though
[19:25] <yofel> but adding it should be fine
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> that would technically make the kdeutils package uninstallable
[19:26] <yofel> shadeslayer: because we never merged from debian after I re-packaged 2.0 I think
[19:26] <shadeslayer> okie
[19:26] <yofel> and I've dumped copyright assignment
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> wouldn't it be better to wait until it's packaged, and then do a new release of meta-kde with paris included?
[19:26] <JontheEchidna> s/paris/pairs
[19:27] <yofel> well, currently meta-kde has kdemultimedia too, which is uninstallable as well until audiocd-kio is through SOURCE NEW
[19:27] <Daskreech> Hi just checking in on the build status for KDE 4.8.80
[19:27] <yofel> so I don't think it matters much
[19:27] <shadeslayer> Daskreech: we're just discussing what's left
[19:27] <yofel> we'll have held packages in any case
[19:28] <JontheEchidna> yeah, probably not that important in an alpha
[19:28] <yofel> hm
[19:29] <yofel> JontheEchidna: sorry, pairs is kdeedu
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> ah, right
[19:29] <JontheEchidna> I'll start by throwing kde4libs up, then your or me or whoever can do the meta-kde update
[19:29] <Daskreech> shadeslayer: ah that's what I was picking up on :)
[19:30] <yofel> I'll do it then
[19:30] <JontheEchidna> sounds good
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> yofel: do we remove the "a" suffix on the upstream versions?
[19:31] <yofel> I don't think so
[19:31] <JontheEchidna> ok
[19:32] <JontheEchidna> that would kind of screw -ninjas users
[19:32] <yofel> did we have anything new otherwise? kdemultimedia is there, I added paris, and kde-base-artwork belongs into kubuntu-meta IMO
[19:33] <JontheEchidna> I think that's it for new stuff
[19:34] <yofel> *pairs
[19:34]  * yofel wonders how often he already mistyped that...
[19:34] <JontheEchidna> :P
[19:34] <Daskreech> I'll check in later
[19:35] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/meta-kde] Philip Muškovac * 40 * debian/ (changelog control) releasing version 5:76~pre1ubuntu1
[19:36] <yofel> Daskreech: we're uploading now, but things might be broken for a while as there are several new package again that replace older ones
[19:37] <JontheEchidna> btw, looks like Debian's going to do qt3 removal this weekend
[19:37] <debfx> yofel: we might want to name the binary package of kde-base-artwork like the source package
[19:37] <yofel> didn't we?
[19:38] <debfx> ah it's not uploaded at all
[19:38] <yofel> I mean the dependency on it (if what I said was ambigous)
[19:39] <debfx> in bzr I called it kde-ksplash-default but I think kde-base-artwork would be better
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> btw, I did a reboot after the 4.8.80 upgrade and didn't get a ksplash
[19:41] <debfx> right, because kde-base-artwork is missing
[19:41] <yofel> because the new one is in kde-base-artwork
[19:41] <JontheEchidna> ah, ok
[19:42] <debfx> we probably don't want to split the files in kde-base-artwork in multiple packages
[19:51] <CIA-44> [kdelibs] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[19:56] <JontheEchidna> hmm: kmix: error while loading shared libraries: libkdeinit4_kmix.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[19:57] <yofel> *blink*
[19:58] <yofel> -.-
[19:58] <yofel> sorry
[20:00] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/kmix] Philip Muškovac * 2 * debian/kmix.install add missing libkdeinit4 files
[20:00] <yofel> that's what happens if you rewrite the install file and have not-installed still in place...
[20:09] <shadeslayer> heh, fun, VKontakte seems to be disabled and yet the install files and the appropriate rules seem to be in place
[20:10] <shadeslayer> hah, the series file doesn't apply the patch
[20:21] <CIA-44> [kactivities] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[20:21] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/pairs] Philip Muškovac * 1 * (11 files in 3 dirs) import pairs packaging
[20:25] <yofel> /tmp/buildd/calligra-2.4.90/plugins/reporting/maps/KoReportItemMaps.h:32:26: fatal error: MarbleWidget.h: No such file or directory
[20:25] <yofel> *headdesk*
[20:25] <yofel> do they enjoy making calligra fail to build because of marble for just about every release? -.-
[20:26] <CIA-44> [kdepimlibs] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[20:38] <CIA-44> [kate] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[20:40] <JontheEchidna> yofel: should soprano have been uploaded at this point?
[20:41]  * JontheEchidna fears that he dun goofed >.>
[20:42] <yofel> well, probably for kdepimlibs
[20:42] <yofel> considering we're almost at 4.8.85, I would just upload soprano now and fix things later
[20:43] <yofel> iirc there's only one thing that depends on newest soprano anyway
[20:43] <JontheEchidna> nepomuk-core?
[20:47] <yofel> yeah
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> hmm, I can't seem to download soprano from ninjas via the web interface
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> yofel: would you mind uploading it to quantal?
[20:51] <yofel> can't, needs universe upload rights
[20:51] <yofel> ah wait
[20:51] <yofel> soprano?
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> yea
[20:51] <yofel> can do
[20:51] <JontheEchidna> thanks
[20:52] <JontheEchidna> https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ninjas/+archive/ppa/+files/soprano_2.7.56%2Bdfsg.1-0ubuntu1~ppa2.dsc is what I tried, but it does some sort of 404
[20:52] <yofel> you can't dget from ninjas
[20:52]  * yofel uses apt-get source
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> I'm just trying to click the link on the ppa website :P
[20:53] <yofel> oh, dunno ^^
[20:53] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: via chrome?
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> thought that's a good point, I should set up a deb-src entry to avoid this in the future
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> shadeslayer: yeah
[20:53] <shadeslayer> JontheEchidna: bug in chrome iirc
[20:53] <shadeslayer> a really old one
[20:53] <JontheEchidna> :/
[20:53] <shadeslayer> use rekonq
[20:53] <shadeslayer> :D
[20:54] <debfx> or use the new pull-ninjas-source from kubuntu-dev-tools
[21:13] <CIA-44> [libkdcraw] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[21:14] <shadeslayer> Anyone planning to ARM builds?
[21:14]  * shadeslayer has to check if digikam 2.6.0 compiles
[21:17] <CIA-44> [libkexiv2] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[21:20] <CIA-44> [libksane] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[21:23] <CIA-44> [libkdeedu] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[21:23]  * yofel wonders why dpkg doesn't depend on quilt if you're using 3.0 (quilt) ...
[21:23] <micahg> yofel: internal implementation AIUI
[21:26] <CIA-44> [libkcompactdisc] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[21:26] <yofel> ah...
[21:27] <yofel> seems to be so indeed, that explains some things
[21:28] <CIA-44> [libkcddb] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[21:30] <CIA-44> [libkipi] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[21:36] <CIA-44> [kde-baseapps] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[21:39] <shadeslayer> ScottK: how come there's no pkg-kde-tools installed on the arm boxes?
[21:39] <CIA-44> [nepomuk-core] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80a-0ubuntu1
[21:40] <ScottK> shadeslayer: IIRC, there is.  Perhaps it's just not new enough.
[21:41] <shadeslayer> dh: unable to load addon kde: Can't locate Debian/Debhelper/Sequence/kde.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.0 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at (eval 8) line 2.
[21:41] <ScottK> pkg-kde-tools_0.9.3ubuntu4_all.deb is installed.
[21:42] <shadeslayer> whoa, that's *old*
[21:43] <yofel> debfx: are you going to upload pkg-kde-tools?
[21:43] <ScottK> Current pkg-kde-tools needs a newer dpkg than is available there.
[21:44] <shadeslayer> :S
[21:44]  * ScottK has to go soon, so feel free to update it.
[21:44] <CIA-44> [okular] Jonathan Thomas<EMAIL_ADDRESS>*<EMAIL_ADDRESS>* debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[21:45] <shadeslayer> Can't even emulate armel using qemu on my VPS because it'll cry about running out of memory
[21:45] <shadeslayer> ScottK: just needs a newer dpkg?
[21:46] <ScottK> Yes, but I don't want to backport dpkg.
[21:46] <ScottK> Maybe you can make it work well enough without libdpkg-perl
[21:46] <BluesKaj> got a ppa for 4.8.4 ?
[21:46] <shadeslayer> I'm too scared to backport dpkg because if I mess it up it'll render the system unusable
[21:47] <shadeslayer> *it might render the
[21:47] <BluesKaj> ninja?
[21:47] <yofel> it is in ninjas for precise
[21:48] <shadeslayer> btw is there a script that uploads all the new tars?
[21:48] <shadeslayer> or do you do it by hand?
[21:48] <yofel> you mean archive uploads?
[21:49] <shadeslayer> yes
[21:49] <yofel> I work half-automated from bzr using this: http://paste.kde.org/495104/
[21:50] <BluesKaj> yofel, ok , so I'll stay out of it on quantal ... I have precise on the other drive , so I'll switch over
[21:50] <yofel> quantal is just getting 4.8.80
[21:50] <BluesKaj> yes , I have it
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> most of the first-level blue nodes are up now
[21:52] <JontheEchidna> I won't be able to do workspace due to my crappy connection
[21:52] <yofel> I'll do oxygen-icons, that'll keep me busy for a bit
[21:53] <shadeslayer> -> sleep, digikam still building, will test and upload tomorrow
[22:00] <CIA-44> [lp:~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/oxygen-icons] Philip Muškovac * 101 * debian/changelog releasing version 4:4.8.80-0ubuntu1
[22:03] <Daskreech> yofel: Back ;) thanks. I'm showing KDE off at a Conference this weekend (Konference?) and decided to use Kubuntu. Others are doing Debian and Fedora. Hopefully I can get KDE 4.9 installed by say mid day tomorrow so I can play with it and know what not to show off as it crashes. I think Debian can handle the KDE 4.8 series fine
[22:15] <Riddell> Daskreech: dunno how soon backports will be done
[22:15] <Riddell> I'd like to do them first thing tomorrow but they always take longer than expected
[22:17] <Daskreech> Of course they do :)
[22:18] <Daskreech> Riddell: I may consider the hairy choice of jumping to +1 to get 4.8.80
[22:19] <Riddell> I'm having no problems with the alpha of +1
[22:19] <Riddell> and you can install it from ninjas if necessary
[22:21] <Riddell> debfx: 4.8.4 is out
[22:24] <genii-around> Daskreech:
[22:25] <Daskreech> hi genii-around
[22:25]  * genii-around makes more coffee
[22:47] <Daskreech> Coffee is good


[14:59] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:59] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:59. The chair is NCommander.
[14:59] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:59]  * rsalveti waves
[15:00] <ogra> foopl
[15:00] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
[15:00] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2011/20110303
[15:00] <NCommander> who's here?
[15:01] <NCommander> There are no standing action items
[15:01] <NCommander> [topic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel.html
[15:01] <janimo> hellp
[15:01] <NCommander> ptopic] http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:02] <rsalveti> help or hello? :P
[15:02] <ogra> lol
[15:02] <janimo> hello for now
[15:02] <janimo> it may beocme help later in the cycle ;)
[15:02]  * ogra was wondering exactly the same
[15:02] <rsalveti> :-)
[15:02] <GrueMaster> i'm not
[15:03] <ogra> geez, the overall Wi status looks scary
[15:03] <ogra> NCommander, the second link should be beta ;)
[15:03]  * NCommander grumbles
[15:03] <GrueMaster> It will be next week.
[15:04] <GrueMaster> This week is still Alpha 3.
[15:04] <ogra> heh
[15:04] <ogra> for some minutes
[15:04] <NCommander> no beta page doesn't exist
[15:04] <GrueMaster> And it's a good indicator of how we did.
[15:04] <janimo> for some reason 5 of my WIs were eaten by the parser and I cannot figure out why
[15:04] <ogra> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
[15:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/ubuntu-armel-ubuntu-11.04-beta.html
[15:05] <ogra> nah
[15:05] <NCommander> I forgot to update teh WI tracker to postpone his WIs due to spec redesign. that's fixed now
[15:05] <rsalveti> janimo: haha, true: http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/u/jani-natty-alpha-3.html
[15:05] <ogra> looks broken
[15:05] <NCommander> anyway, can I move on?
[15:06] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:06]  * ogra glares at http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/natty/
[15:06] <ogra> janimo, so whats needed to get us the hedless image ?
[15:06] <ogra> NCommander, no :P
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: I need to land janimo's branch
[15:07] <GrueMaster> ogra: Can you save that for image status?
[15:07] <ogra> (why do we have an 11.05)
[15:07] <ogra> GrueMaster, still, there seems to be action needed to fix the WI tracker
[15:07] <NCommander> ogra: probably for Linaro
[15:07] <ogra> beta is broken completely
[15:07] <NCommander> [action] ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:07] <ogra> and there shouldnt be ubuntu-armel-11.05
[15:07] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra to fix WI tracker
[15:07] <GrueMaster> Beta hasn't started yet.
[15:08] <ogra> doesnt matter for the tracker
[15:08] <ogra> it just reports how the whiteboards are set
[15:08] <ogra> date has no influence
[15:08] <janimo> ogra, I don't know what else is needed, these build scripts are not well documented, let alone I am not working on the actual ones running the builds
[15:08] <janimo> so I hope NCommander spots any irregularities
[15:08] <ogra> action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:09] <ogra> NCommander, ^^^
[15:09] <janimo> or we try and if there are errors we fix after A3
[15:09] <NCommander> I had gotten sidetracked by mono and then alpha 3 to land the headless branch
[15:09] <ogra> i'll find out whats needed and we can do that offline
[15:09] <janimo> NCommander, sure np
[15:09] <NCommander> now can we get back on topic on Unity 2d Status?!
[15:09] <ogra> NCommander, right, please do that with high prio now that you are done with mono (assuming you are)
[15:10] <ogra> NCommander, if you would wait until getting an answer on the move request that would be easier
[15:10] <NCommander> ogra: I'm not, and I don't have a local d-cd instance to test. You may be better off landing the code
[15:10] <NCommander> ogra: I did wait, there wasn't a response either way.
[15:10] <ogra> can everyone please move the remaining a3 items on theit blueprints
[15:11] <ogra> *their
[15:11] <janimo> can anyone see why this whiteboard is not parsed correctly? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:11] <ogra> we have 11 open items there
[15:11] <janimo> all those WIs are not showing up in the graphs
[15:12] <ogra> lets do that off meeting, to me it looks fine
[15:13] <ogra> NCommander, can you please add the above action
[15:13] <NCommander> [topic] Unity 2D Status
[15:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  Unity 2D Status
[15:13] <NCommander> [action] ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ogra + janimo to look at why WI don't appear on other-arm-n-handle-core-boot-files-update
[15:13]  * ogra shakes head
 action: everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
 NCommander, ^^
[15:13] <NCommander> grumble
[15:13] <ogra> jani and i dont need an action for that
[15:14] <NCommander> [action] everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  everyone to check their WI status on the whiteboards that the right beta tag is set
[15:14] <ogra> thanks
[15:14] <ogra> move
[15:14] <NCommander> ogra: I did
[15:14] <ogra> premature again
[15:14] <ogra> well
[15:14] <ogra> it kind of works ...
[15:14] <ogra> thats all status i have, many bugs open, upstream is working on them
[15:14] <ogra> move
[15:15] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, rsalveti)
[15:15] <ogra> very bad from what i grokked from the mail discussion
[15:15] <rsalveti> for omap 3 one the master-next will get merged with 38-rc7 release
[15:15] <ogra> seems .38 exploded with the last rebase
[15:15] <rsalveti> now for omap 4 things are still bad
[15:15] <rsalveti> the current blocker issue is the mmc crash
[15:15] <rsalveti> as reported by cooloney
[15:16] <ogra> didnt he also talk about build issues ?
[15:16] <rsalveti> so this should be sorted this week, and probably merged at our ti-omap4-dev then
[15:16] <ogra> or are these solved
[15:16] <rsalveti> ogra: we got patches for that already
[15:16] <ogra> ah, good
[15:16] <ogra> seems i missed a mail
[15:16] <ogra> or two
[15:17] <rsalveti> but at least with current tests, it seems that it's kind of working well
[15:17] <ogra> plan is to move to .38 as soon as these are solved
[15:17] <rsalveti> yup
[15:17] <ogra> which means also trhat we'll lose .35
[15:17] <rsalveti> it'll be merged at ti-omap4-dev, then we'll request more testing
[15:17] <rsalveti> once it's ok, we'll pull as the default kernel for omap4
[15:17] <ogra> i was wondering if it would make sense to have an upload to canonical-arm-dev PPA
[15:17] <ogra> of the final .35 branch
[15:18] <ogra> so we have a fallback if .38 isnt usable at all during our work
[15:18] <rsalveti> we could create a public ppa for it, if needed
[15:18] <rsalveti> build at canonical-arm and then copy to the public one
[15:18] <ogra> i just thought to make sure we dont get blocked by it
[15:18] <ogra> seems to be not very rebase-safe to me atm
[15:18] <ogra> so it might explode again next rebase
[15:19] <GrueMaster> Well, if we are testing it on the side before making it default, we should catch most issues.
[15:19] <rsalveti> well, at least 38 is almost final already
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster: sure
[15:19] <ogra> right, mainline is
[15:19] <ogra> but the patches still look shaky
[15:19] <rsalveti> and will be for a while
[15:19] <ogra> right
[15:19] <rsalveti> we just need to test before pushing
[15:19] <rsalveti> then we should be ok
[15:19] <rsalveti> GrueMaster can be our go/no-go
[15:20] <GrueMaster> yep
[15:20] <ogra> i dont want to overload him though ;)
[15:20] <ogra> he is busy enough
[15:20] <rsalveti> not a lot to test
[15:20] <ogra> k
[15:20] <ogra> then lets drop the PPA idea
[15:20] <rsalveti> I don't expect a kernel update more than once a week
[15:20] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:20] <GrueMaster> ogra: What say I make the call of how busy I am?
[15:20] <rsalveti> any other question?
[15:20] <ogra> you typed yep when i was still typing :)
[15:21] <NCommander> QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <NCommander> bah
[15:21] <NCommander> paste failure
[15:21] <NCommander> can I move on?
[15:21] <rsalveti> you're having serious problems with your paste
[15:21] <ogra> jep
[15:21] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster)
[15:21] <NCommander> rsalveti: I've been thold this is proper behavior
[15:21] <rsalveti> hehe, then you're the issue
[15:21] <ogra> fix your palms ?
[15:22] <GrueMaster> Alpha 3 testing was brutal (again).    It has more serious problems.
[15:23] <ogra> rsalveti, and thanls for the right suggestion at the right moment ;)
[15:23] <ogra> GrueMaster, kubuntu x86/amd64 was respun
[15:23] <rsalveti> ogra: haha :-)
[15:23] <GrueMaster> Oh.
[15:23] <ogra> not armel
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Well, armel was also respun by NCommander at my request.
[15:24] <ogra> oh, twice ?
[15:24] <ogra> i only saw 03 and no 03.1 when i tested
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Thought it may be also hung up by the same issue.  Turns out it has additional critical failure issues.
[15:24] <GrueMaster> Timing.
[15:24] <ogra> (or did you talk about kubuntu armel now)
[15:25] <GrueMaster> Yes.
[15:25] <ogra> ah, confusing :)
[15:25] <GrueMaster> We announced we were respinning in #u-release.
[15:25] <ogra> yeah
[15:25] <ogra> i thought you talked about netbook
[15:26] <ogra> (ubuntu)
[15:26] <GrueMaster> It would be far easier to understand what I was talking about if there were less interuptions.  I haven't stopped talking about kubuntu.
[15:27] <GrueMaster> At any rate, I have nothing constructive to add further.
[15:27] <GrueMaster> NCommander: move on, please.
[15:28] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:28] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, janimo)
[15:28] <NCommander> nothing new to report expect livecd-rootfs got a lobotomy to get a3 images out
[15:28] <janimo> getting better
[15:28] <NCommander> mono work still pending a3 release
[15:29] <NCommander> janimo: got anything else or can I move?
[15:29] <rsalveti> it should appear more gl/gles related bugs, now that more packages get updated
[15:29] <janimo> move
[15:29] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:29] <rsalveti> for wrong usage or lack of proper detection
[15:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:29] <ogra> A3 released
[15:29] <NCommander> We made A3. livecd-rootfs got a nasty hack due to webkit sucking
[15:29] <ogra> nothing else to report for existing images
[15:29] <ogra> NCommander, do you need any help with janis changes ?
[15:30] <rsalveti> I'm building webkit with gcc-4.4 to see if it could be related with the toolchain
[15:30] <NCommander> ogra: feel free to grab them and run with ARM Image Status (ogra, NCommander)
[15:30] <NCommander> them
[15:30] <NCommander> %$#W@!!~
[15:30] <rsalveti> but webkit in general is completely broken
[15:30] <NCommander> what I need is to take Xorg apart
[15:30] <rsalveti> and gcc can't help on it
[15:30] <ogra> so its an internal webik error ?
[15:30] <ogra> thats bad
[15:30] <ogra> especially if we cant blame the toolchain
[15:31] <rsalveti> yup, we'll see
[15:31] <janimo> rsalveti, , I saw PPA builds of webkit failed
[15:31] <NCommander> rsalveti: I recommend you prepare the approicate sacarifies to the debugging gods
[15:31] <rsalveti> janimo: that's fine, armel is still building
[15:31] <rsalveti> I forgot that the ppa also builds for other arches
[15:31] <ogra> yeah, who cares about exotic arches like x86 anyway
[15:31] <rsalveti> yup :-)
[15:31] <GrueMaster> I do when the build failures start spamming me.
[15:32] <rsalveti> sorry about that :-)
[15:32] <NCommander> we should have some sorta nice porting team to assign bugs to when x86 breaks since hardware is so scare :-)
[15:32] <ogra> procmail ftw ;)
[15:32] <ogra> NCommander, good idea ! propose that to davidm
[15:32] <ogra> ;)
[15:32] <ogra> so he can bring it up to the managers
[15:33] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
[15:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to draft and formalize x86 porting team proposal
[15:33]  * ogra has nothing else
[15:33] <NCommander> */silly off*
[15:33] <NCommander> [topic] AOB
[15:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[15:34] <ogra> i held a talk at UDD ...
[15:34] <ogra> got some nice positive feedback and actually the hour was filled with questions (i only talked for 10min or so)
[15:35] <ogra> seems there is good community interest in arm
[15:35] <ogra> ..
[15:35] <ogra> err UDW, sorry
[15:35] <NCommander> ogra: watch your TLAs :-)
[15:35]  * janimo waits for Daniel to post the daily summary links and I'll check out the transcript
[15:35] <ogra> heh
[15:35] <rsalveti> yeah, saw that, quite nice we had so many people interested on it
[15:36] <NCommander> I'm probably going to be out the rest of the morning and possibly early afternoon
[15:36] <NCommander> I got a grand total of 45 minutes of sleep
[15:36] <NCommander> >.<;
[15:36] <ogra> yeah, get some lseep
[15:36] <janimo> lslepp
[15:36] <NCommander> plan on it
[15:36] <janimo> as in long sleep
[15:36] <ogra> you well earned a break ;)
[15:36] <NCommander> anyway
[15:36] <NCommander> Anyting else
[15:36] <NCommander> else
[15:36] <NCommander> closingin the meeting in 5
[15:36] <janimo> calendar is helpful, just got an email reminding me of this meeting
[15:36] <ogra> nope
[15:36] <NCommander> 4
[15:36] <NCommander> 3
[15:36] <NCommander> 2
[15:37] <NCommander> 1
[15:37] <ogra> janimo, fix your timezone ;)
[15:37] <NCommander> @endmeeting
[15:37] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[15:37] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:37.
[15:37] <janimo> ogra, it is gmail actually
[15:37] <ogra> fix your TZ setting there
[15:37] <janimo> no timezonme settings are off by 30 minutes :)
[15:37] <ogra> ah
[15:37] <ogra> heh
[15:37] <ogra> thats what you get living in the middle of a TZ
[15:37] <NCommander> janimo: actually ..
[15:37] <NCommander> India is off by 30 minutes
[15:38] <ogra> it just tries to be precise
[15:38] <janimo> well yes, and a few other regions in wide countries
[15:38] <janimo> but not around here
[15:38] <soren> there's a city somewhere that's off by 20 minutes, iirc.
[15:38] <NCommander> anyway
[15:38] <NCommander> I'm gone
[19:01] <charlie-tca> anyone here for the Xubuntu meeting?
[19:01] <Unit193> Yeah
[19:01] <mr_pouit> o/
[19:01] <charlie-tca> #startmeeting
[19:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is charlie-tca.
[19:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[19:02] <charlie-tca> If I go away, just keep going
[19:02] <highvoltage> good afternoon charlie-tca
[19:02] <charlie-tca> Welcome to the weekly Xubuntu Community Meeting
[19:02] <charlie-tca> Hello, highvoltage
[19:02] <charlie-tca> The full meeting agenda is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[19:02] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Old business
[19:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Old business
[19:03] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu marketing plans
[19:03] <charlie-tca> any word on these yet?
[19:04] <charlie-tca> ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
[19:04] <charlie-tca> running out of time for this, aren't we, mr_pouit
[19:04] <charlie-tca> we need someone to update the slideshows displayed during the installation, they are badly outdated (they were made for karmic or lucid)
[19:04] <BillyBob> i have a small opinion to make; xubuntu is trying to fit into the same niche as ubuntu, maybe we need to find a different one?
[19:05] <charlie-tca> I think we can close this one, knome and ochosi got a start on it
[19:05] <mr_pouit> we have 3 weeks before UI freezen so it might be ok
[19:05] <mr_pouit> *freeze
[19:05] <charlie-tca> Thanks, mr_pouit
[19:05] <BillyBob> i could do that if u want
[19:05] <charlie-tca> BillyBob: that would fit better in "Any other business"
[19:05] <charlie-tca> do which one?
[19:05] <BillyBob> soz, first time
[19:06] <charlie-tca> marketing plans?
[19:07] <beardygnome> hi all, stuck at work, so I'm going to have to skip this meeting. will catch up on the minutes when they are published.
[19:07] <charlie-tca> Thanks for letting us know, beardygnome
[19:07] <charlie-tca> BillyBob: which one do you think you could help with?
[19:08] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Team updates
[19:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Team updates
[19:08] <BillyBob> charlie-tca: the slideshow, and i think my mate and i could get it onto the website too
[19:09] <charlie-tca> Slideshow should be about done now. I believe ochosi is going to supply some new snapshots of the greybird theme to finish it up
[19:09] <charlie-tca> But, by all mean, talk to knome or ochosi about it and see if they can use some help?
[19:10] <BillyBob> OK, have you got someone to put it on website? we could do that
[19:10] <beardygnome> charlie-tca: np
[19:10] <charlie-tca> The website is being redone in wordpress, I think that is part of the reworking.
[19:11] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Packaging & Development
[19:11] <MootBot> New Topic:  Packaging & Development
[19:11] <charlie-tca> mr_pouit: updates?
[19:11] <mr_pouit> Nothing much this week, it was rather calm because of the alpha freeze
[19:11] <mr_pouit> * Updated xubuntu-default-settings/xubuntu-meta for the changes decided last meeting.
[19:11] <mr_pouit> * Fixed xfce4-indicator-plugin to support changing volume on scroll events with indicator-sound.
[19:11] <mr_pouit> * Uploaded update-manager patch from last week (Bug #530161).
[19:12] <mr_pouit> That's all.
[19:12] <charlie-tca> Calm is good for a change
[19:12] <charlie-tca> I saw an indicator-sound-??? crash a few times in testing, was that the one abouve?
[19:13] <mr_pouit> yeah, it's this indicator in the panel
[19:13] <charlie-tca> Great!
[19:13] <charlie-tca> the other one causing concern was the update-manager crashing on first update after installing.
[19:13] <charlie-tca> that is being looked at by Ubuntu devs
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Any questions for mr_pouit ?
[19:14] <charlie-tca> Thank you, mr_pouit. Your work is greatly appreciated!
[19:14] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Bug Triage & Testing
[19:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bug Triage & Testing
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Not much on bugs this week, but we did test the ISO images for Natty Alpha3.
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Testing went pretty good this time around, however, wubi is broken
[19:15] <charlie-tca> Any questions?
[19:16] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Website & Marketing
[19:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Website & Marketing
[19:16] <charlie-tca> Any updates from knome or pleia2 ?
[19:17] <charlie-tca> hm, it is a bad day for freenode today.
[19:17] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Artwork
[19:17] <MootBot> New Topic:  Artwork
[19:18] <BillyBob> are you at all interested in photographs for some desktop wallpapers?
[19:18] <charlie-tca> The new themes and layouts are now in alpha3. Greybird is a really neat theme!
[19:19]  * mvo has fixed the u-m issue in bzr
[19:20] <charlie-tca> yes, they can be submitted, but all the wallpaper will be submitted through the community artwork project at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/0007_Xubuntu_Natty_Wallpaper
[19:20] <BillyBob> photos?
[19:20] <BillyBob> right, i'll upload them then
[19:20] <charlie-tca> photos will be considered, as they as they meet the specs
[19:20] <charlie-tca> The upload site is http://www.flickr.com/groups/uawt-7/
[19:21] <charlie-tca> thank you, mvo
[19:21] <charlie-tca> any other questions on artwork?
[19:21] <charlie-tca> I see ochosi made it, any news on
[19:21] <charlie-tca> # ochosi and knome will put together some logo designs to be discussed as the menu icon
[19:22] <ochosi> yeah, sry, didn't make it with the menu icon
[19:22] <ochosi> was busy with other stuff
[19:22] <ochosi> xfwm4 theme is finished
[19:22] <ochosi> so basically the greybird theme is pretty final
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Okay, we got about three weeks to freeze
[19:22] <charlie-tca> the greybird theme is fantastic!
[19:22] <ochosi> so with greybird we're basically in a bugfix phase
[19:22] <charlie-tca> Next week we should be reviewing wallpapers
[19:22] <ochosi> yeah, feedback is pretty good
[19:23] <ochosi> mhm
[19:23] <ochosi> maybe discuss them a bit before the meeting even
[19:23] <charlie-tca> sure.
[19:23] <ochosi> knome and me did a new gmusicbrowser icon for xubuntu
[19:23] <ochosi> it's pretty nice :)
[19:23]  * ochosi digs up the link
[19:23] <charlie-tca> Is it the one in the alpha3?
[19:24] <ochosi> no, up to now it was monochrome
[19:24]  * micahg is back
[19:24] <ochosi> which was problematic
[19:24] <ochosi> you can see it here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/gmusicbrowser/blob/master/pix/gmusicbrowser.png
[19:25] <ochosi> i guess that's about it from my side
[19:25] <charlie-tca> WoW! I like that one a lot
[19:25] <ochosi> (the new icon also created good feedback by the way)
[19:25] <ochosi> thanks :)
[19:25] <charlie-tca> that does give a real nice idea of what the app does
[19:25] <ochosi> it's designed to be kinda generic, so it would give a good idea of the function
[19:25] <ochosi> exactly
[19:26] <charlie-tca> Anything for artwork?
[19:26] <ochosi> nope, i'm done )
[19:26] <charlie-tca> else, that is?
[19:26] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Announcements
[19:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announcements
[19:26] <ochosi> sry, g2g again
[19:26] <charlie-tca> Natty Narwhal Alpha3 released today!
[19:27] <charlie-tca> Thanks, ochosi
[19:27] <ochosi> i'll read the log :)
[19:27] <ochosi> np
[19:27] <ochosi> ->
[19:27] <charlie-tca> Glad for your input
[19:27] <charlie-tca> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[19:27] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[19:27] <micahg> did we get gmusicbrowser in the seed for alpha3
[19:28] <micahg> or are we waiting on the new artwork?
[19:28] <charlie-tca> Next meeting is on March 10, same place, 19:00 UTC
[19:28] <charlie-tca> micahg: as far as I know, it is there
[19:28] <charlie-tca> I know it was on the panel, and started with the launcher
[19:29] <charlie-tca> This was brought up earlier, and deserves an answer:
 i have a small opinion to make; xubuntu is trying to fit into the same niche as ubuntu, maybe we need to find a different one?
[19:29]  * micahg doesn't think so
[19:30] <micahg> xubuntu is a lighter alternative to ubuntu, not lightest though
[19:30] <charlie-tca> Ubuntu with Unity and Gnome has always been aimed at the the new user coming from windows
[19:30] <charlie-tca> We have not aimed at the new user, intentionally.
[19:30] <charlie-tca> We are looking more at the user with at least some experience
[19:31] <BillyBob> OK, but xfce has almost the same configuration of programs (so far as i know) as GNOME, why change?
[19:31] <charlie-tca> And, as micahg just stated, Xubuntu is a lighter alternative
[19:31] <Sysi> we're hitting far from gnome3 and kde with xfce 4.8
[19:31] <charlie-tca> um, BillyBob, I think you should look again
[19:31] <charlie-tca> no open office/libreoffice
[19:31] <charlie-tca> no rythmbox/banshee
[19:31] <charlie-tca> no unity/compiz
[19:32] <Sysi> browser is same, shortly said
[19:32] <micahg> yes, and lighter default apps
[19:32] <BillyBob> OK, i'm just a noob i guess
[19:32] <micahg> I think the only default shared with Ubuntu is Firefox
[19:32] <BillyBob> but if there was like a killer reason to change, maybe more people would?
[19:32] <charlie-tca> There are many differences, even though we do use some of the gnome applications
[19:33] <Sysi> we could market xubuntu to old gnome users that don't like unity
[19:33] <Sysi> natty-time
[19:33] <charlie-tca> yes, that would be good, also to those experienced users who want more configurability
[19:34] <charlie-tca> Many things can be changed in Xubuntu that are harder to change in Ubuntu
[19:35] <BillyBob> maybe if we marketed with that, customisability?
[19:35] <BillyBob> forgive me if u do
[19:35] <charlie-tca> We need help with the marketing part of things
[19:36] <BillyBob> have you thought about removing the rat from the logo, because rats are sneaky and annoying, and pests?
[19:36] <maco> s/rat/mouse/
[19:37] <BillyBob> maco: what about a mouse?
[19:37] <Sysi> it's xfce's mouse
[19:38] <BillyBob> oh, a mouse!
[19:38] <charlie-tca> BillyBob: here is the start to our Marketing plans - feel free to add to it
[19:38] <charlie-tca> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Marketing
[19:38] <charlie-tca> The mouse is the Xfce logo
[19:38] <charlie-tca> just as the footprint is the gnome logo
[19:39] <BillyBob> but maybe we don't have to use it, the ubuntu logo doesn't have a foot
[19:39] <charlie-tca> ideas accepted
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Please add them to the marketing page
[19:40] <PsynoKhi0> ubuntu now has pretty much its own DE though :)
[19:40] <PsynoKhi0> well... own shell rather
[19:40] <Unit193> It's nice to have the minimize/maximize/close buttons on the top right
[19:40] <charlie-tca> Yes, even though the underlying stuff is gnome, they are putting more and more of their own into Ubuntu
[19:41] <charlie-tca> heh, gnome3 does away with minimize and maximize buttons
[19:41] <BillyBob> mmm, true
[19:41] <charlie-tca> Xubuntu gives the user the option to use the buttons or hide them all
[19:42] <charlie-tca> There's that configurability again, huh?
[19:42] <BillyBob> before i go, perhaps a freash new icon theme, like the 'breathe' one, the xfce one looks kinda old
[19:43] <charlie-tca> too late for this cycle
[19:43] <Sysi> discuss with knome about that :P
[19:43] <charlie-tca> Anything else to discuss
[19:43] <charlie-tca> knome does not run things, he can make suggestions too
[19:43] <charlie-tca> the icons are there for Natty, already
[19:44] <charlie-tca> going....
[19:44] <charlie-tca> going 2.....
[19:44] <PsynoKhi0> then again, having the ubuntu logo
[19:44] <charlie-tca> Thanks for participating in this meeting!
[19:44] <charlie-tca> huh? what "having the ubuntu logo"?
[19:45] <charlie-tca> where is that?
[19:45] <charlie-tca> Of course, we walk a fine line, being a separate distribution but officially supported by Ubuntu
[19:45] <PsynoKhi0> having the ubuntu logo instead of the xfce one would brand xubuntu as a distro with stronger tie with ubuntu, instead of strong tie with xfce
[19:46] <charlie-tca> That would be a wrong suggestion. We really do have a strong tie with Xfce
[19:46] <charlie-tca> since that is the desktop environment we use.
[19:47] <charlie-tca> We could consider a logo that shows both, again, as we had in the past.
[19:47] <PsynoKhi0> was wondering where this one went :)
[19:47] <charlie-tca> but we will not confuse the user by using the Ubuntu logo. That does designate Ubuntu, a different distribution.
[19:47] <PsynoKhi0> fair point
[19:48] <charlie-tca> Development happens in #xubuntu-devel, support happens in #xubuntu
[19:48] <Unit193> How about the Ubuntu logo with the mouse in the middle?
[19:49] <charlie-tca> um, it would be better to use a similar but different design then the Ubuntu logo.
[19:49] <Sysi> getting complicated for small sizes
[19:49] <charlie-tca> yeah, we tried to get the mouse in the wheel, it did not work well
[19:50] <charlie-tca> WE need one that designates lightweight, tied to ubuntu, tied to Xfce, with great configurability!
[19:50] <PsynoKhi0> does it really have to show the entire logo? my only gripe about natty alpha is that the menu button is really small
[19:50] <charlie-tca> a few designs to look at would be nice
[19:51] <charlie-tca> We are trying to get some new designs drawn up
[19:51] <charlie-tca> The fact that it is the logo does not mean it has to be tiny
[19:52] <PsynoKhi0> let me upload a pic real quick
[19:53] <charlie-tca> better to do a couple of pictures, and give us a chance to see them. We will not make a decision today, anyway.
[19:53] <PsynoKhi0> kk
[19:53] <charlie-tca> Hopefully, we will have logos to look at next week, right?
[19:54] <charlie-tca> PsynoKhi0 and ochosi and maybe knome will get some together for us?
[19:54] <PsynoKhi0> can give it a try
[19:54] <charlie-tca> PsynoKhi0: feel free to tell us in #xubuntu-devel any links to see a preview of it, okay?
[19:54] <PsynoKhi0> sure thing
[19:54] <charlie-tca> I would like to end this meeting, if we can?
[19:55] <charlie-tca> Thanks again for participating. It is great to see interest being generated!
[19:55] <charlie-tca> #endmeeting
[19:55] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:55.
[19:56]  * charlie-tca has a two year old wanting attention too
[19:57] <Sysi> aww