[00:02] <keithy_> well an idea for core dev... dmg installer for Mac OS X 10.4
[00:02] <lifeless> spiv: ping; can we chat? if you're not deep in the flow; I have a proposal for 'what revisions I need to push detection'
[00:03] <lifeless> keithy_: I'll mail the list for you if you like
[00:03] <lifeless> keithy_: the dmg is done by community members :)
[00:03] <keithy_> k
[00:05] <keithy_> I'v been waiting for python to finish building for ages, does it take long?
[00:05] <dysinger> that's the stupid problem with macports
[00:05] <dysinger> It compiles EVERYTHING
[00:06] <dysinger> it might as well compile an alternate kernel too for pete's sake
[00:06] <dysinger> I don't use it.
[00:06] <dysinger> ./configure && make are easy to use.
[00:06] <keithy_> I think I have python on this mc 4 times now
[00:07] <dysinger> what would it take to get easy_install on your mac ?
[00:07] <dysinger> skip macports
[00:08] <dysinger> if you have easy_install then it's just one line
[00:08] <dysinger> to get the latest bzr
[00:08] <dysinger> sudo easy_install -U paramiko pycrypto bzr
[00:08] <dysinger> OS X comes with Python - you shouldn't have to be compiling Python.
[00:09] <dysinger> http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall
[00:11] <minghua> OS X's python is crippled pretty hard last time (10.3 days) I looked.
[00:11] <jelmer> lifeless: is there a dmg yet? I thought there were people still working on it
[00:11] <igc> maybe we should add easy_install instructions to the Download page
[00:18] <jelmer> igc: easy_install doesn't provide a patched python-subversion
[00:19] <foom> someone could make an easy_installable python-subversion, though, probably.
[00:20] <jelmer> that would be nice
[00:20] <keithy_> Error: The following dependencies failed to build: py25-paramiko py25-zlib
[00:21] <jelmer> there have been quite a few people here trying to patch and build it
[00:23] <jelmer> that reminds me, I need to get that memory leak fix into hardy...
[00:23] <jelmer> because of the way the memory pool stuff works in apr, it's also a major performance improvement
[00:29] <keithy_> so macports is hosed
[00:29] <keithy_> I cant even find a skip option
[00:29] <dysinger> Yeah I stopped using fink and macports years ago
[00:29] <dysinger> same reason I stopped using gentoo
[00:30] <dysinger> you are guaranteed to get pissed one day when the whole build system breaks down when you need it.
[00:30] <keithy_> yeah I use knoppix for linux because I detest these installation issues
[00:30] <keithy_> has everything preinstalled
[00:30] <dysinger> debian and debian variants - accept no substitutes
[00:30] <keithy_> but I cant beleive I have found a mac os x programme that is offering me no options
[00:33] <dysinger> have you tried easy_install (or are you more inclined to the not_easy_install_hair_pulling method) ?
[00:33] <dysinger> http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools#installing-setuptools
[00:34] <dysinger> er better http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#installation-instructions
[00:35] <dysinger> try this
[00:35] <dysinger> cd /tmp ; curl -O http://peak.telecommunity.com/dist/ez_setup.py ; python ./ez_setup.py
[00:36] <dysinger> sheesh I am not even a python person :/  Help me out guys.
[00:38] <lifeless> jelmer: I thought there was a 10.5 one
[00:38] <dysinger> There is but you don't need it
[00:38] <dysinger> easy_install -U does the same thing
[00:38] <dysinger> It just looks prettier
[00:38] <dysinger> and has docs
[00:38] <jelmer> lifeless: Ah, it just doesn't include the python-subversion stuff then yet
[00:39] <dysinger> (It = dmg)
[00:39] <dysinger> I am updating the python-subversion instructions again on the wiki in the next 30 min
[00:39] <dysinger> (for OS X)
[00:39] <dysinger> It's better than my yesterday edit.
[00:48] <lifeless> abentley: ping
[00:49] <dysinger> lol I finally got time to install subversion (trunk) 1.5 and now it says svn: Unrecognized URL scheme for 'http://macromates.com/svn/Bundles/trunk'
[00:49] <lifeless> abentley: I am looking at adding a 'current_search' parameter to get_parent_map; this will allow get_parent_map on the smart server to avoid sending duplicate data back
[00:49] <dysinger> wtf?
[00:51] <dysinger> svn+ssh works but it's not recognizing the http
[00:51] <dysinger> grr
[00:52] <keithy_> error: Download error for http://www.lag.net/paramiko/download/paramiko-1.7.1.zip: (61, 'Connection refused')
[00:53] <keithy_> I give up
[00:53] <lifeless> keithy_: you only need paramiko for sftp
[00:53] <lifeless> keithy_: to just use bzr; if you have *a* python (2.4 or newer) just do this:
[00:53] <lifeless>  - grab the bzr tarball
[00:53] <lifeless>  - untar it
[00:53] <lifeless>  - add that directory to your path
[00:53] <lifeless>  * DONE *
[01:08] <keithy_> it worked!
[01:11] <hsn_> what is main feature of bzr-1.1?
[01:11] <dysinger> version control
[01:11]  * dysinger ducks
[01:11] <keithy_> erm .. it doesnt install on Mac os  x 10.4
[01:11] <keithy_> ;-)
[01:19] <lifeless> max os X is awkward
[01:20] <lifeless> its really geared for binary installs, but the vast chunk of unix programmes are not supplied as binaries by apple
[01:24] <lifeless> spiv: the eagle has landed
[01:24] <spiv> lifeless: sweet
[01:25] <Talden> hsn - ditto.  It'd be nice to see the web-page announce 1.1 in the news and give some hint as to what is new (even if it's just "here's a faster, more stable bzr").
[01:27] <lifeless> there is a changelog I thought
[01:27] <lifeless> Talden: http://bazaar-vcs.org/
[01:28] <lifeless> Talden: says "The main changes in this release are: improved diff, merge, annotate and reconfigure commands; more efficient ordering inside pack repositories; better http authentication, and various other bugs fixed. (full changelog)
[01:28] <lifeless> "
[01:28] <lifeless> Talden: and links to the full changelog.
[01:35] <foom> lifeless: but the "News" section doesn't say anything
[01:35] <lifeless> foom: see martins post about website maintenance
[01:36]  * igc lunch
[01:47] <jelmer> Hmm
[01:47] <jelmer> the improved Inventory.repr() is nice, but it causes very large backtraces in some cases
[01:48] <jelmer> I just got a single-line 700k error from bzr
[02:37] <lifeless> jelmer: grats
[02:38] <jelmer> lifeless: hi
[02:38] <jelmer> lifeless, grats?
[02:38] <lifeless> on 700K bt
[02:38] <poolie> bt?
[02:39] <bob2> (backtrace)
[02:39] <jelmer> lifeless: ah, congrats?
[02:39] <lifeless> jelmer: yes
[02:41] <jelmer> you had me wondering there for a moment why that word wasn't in my 500-page en<->nl dictionary ;-)
[02:45] <lifeless> WoW slang
[02:47] <jelmer> well, with so many Australian bzr developers, I'm glad the main language isn't strine :-P
[02:47] <bob2> does bzr not have an en_AU translation yet?
[02:49] <jelmer> There is no localization yet
[02:50] <jelmer> and both english and american spelling appear to be used
[02:50] <jelmer> bob2: so what's different in en_AU from en_UK?
[02:51] <jml> jelmer: very few things.
[02:55] <jelmer> I can't seem to find any difference in the .mo files
[02:56] <ntnhan> it seems that plugin email works only on client side, when I commit any code to server but email is not sent on server
[02:56] <ntnhan> anybody has idea?
[02:56]  * jelmer suddenly realizes he's up at 4 AM searching for differences between Australian and British language files for evolution and decides to get some sleep
[02:56] <jelmer> ntnhan: It doesn't send email from the server side
[02:57] <ntnhan> jelmer: yes, that's what I don't want :(
[02:58] <beuno> ntnhan, is the server running the bzr smart server?
[02:59] <ntnhan> beuno: no, it's just bzr installed
[03:00] <beuno> ntnhan, I'm not sure how you can make the server send off emails if it's not actually running bzr when you commit
[03:02] <beuno> (smart server would solve it in that case, as you can hook into it)
[03:02] <ntnhan> bueno: how do we configure bzr running on server each time client commits?
[03:02] <beuno> ntnhan, using the smart server  :D
[03:02] <ntnhan> bueno: haha, thx, I didn't know it :), will give a try now
[03:03] <beuno> ntnhan, then you can just hook into bzr, maybe even the current plugin will send off emails. jelmer?
[03:04] <jelmer> I don't think the smart server can send emails when a revision is pushed to it
[03:04] <jelmer> but it's been a while since I've looked at it
[03:04] <jelmer> it being bzr-email
[03:04] <jelmer> lifeless is the bzr-email maintainer so he's probably in a better position to comment
[03:05] <beuno> ntnhan, maybe take a peek at http://bazaar-vcs.org/SmartServer/RemoteObjectHacking
[03:05] <beuno> and of course, lifeless would be *the* man  :D
[03:05] <ntnhan> beuno: ok, i'll try it
[03:06] <lifeless> ntnhan: hi
[03:06] <ntnhan> lifeless: hi
[03:06] <lifeless> ntnhan: the bzr-email plugin fires on Branch.post_commit which is not currently invoked in the server process; as discussed above you will have to bzr using bzr:// (or bzr+ssh etc) for it to work /in principal/
[03:06] <lifeless> but we have to make it work in fact too:)
[03:07] <lifeless> there is a cron based solution folk have created which sends an email when a new commit is detected on the branch and works with any transport (rysnc, bzr, sftp, etc)
[03:07] <beuno> there has to be someway to do it, Launchpad does it  :p
[03:07] <lifeless> beuno: launchpad uses the cron based solution
[03:08] <lifeless> beuno: not the exact same code but that logic path
[03:08] <beuno> seems fairly trivial, just scan through the dir, save the last revid sent by email, and fire off
[03:09] <beuno> (of course, almost anything seems trivial in irc  :P)
[03:09] <lifeless> beuno: well code exists; kthxbye :)
[03:09] <ntnhan> beuno: yes, but everybody wants to save time, need a ready cake
[03:10] <ntnhan> :)
[03:10] <beuno> ntnhan, that's how plugins get started  :D
[03:10] <beuno> (or specs pushed into the trunk)
[03:10] <beuno> file a bug
[03:10] <beuno> requesting it
[03:11] <beuno> the "let's get the aount of open bugs" fever in the upcoming sprint should take care of the rest!
[03:11] <beuno> s/aount/amount
[03:23] <dysinger> jelmer sorry to bother you again.  So I have subversion 1.5 trunk all compiled into /usr/local with neon and all is good.  I can do all the subversion functions with it - it works.  Then I try to use bzr 1.1 w/ bzr-svn stable and get bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "https://.... for every single svn url I try.
[03:23] <dysinger> This worked fine in subversion 1.4.6
[03:24] <Odd_Bloke> dysinger: Try 'svn+https://...'.
[03:24]  * Odd_Bloke can't remember if that works or not.
[03:24] <dysinger> yeah not working either
[03:24] <dysinger> already tried that
[03:25] <Odd_Bloke> Well, jelmer will probably save the day.
[03:25] <Odd_Bloke> He normally does. :p
[03:25] <dysinger> I am trying to get closer and closer to his setup
[03:25] <dysinger> svn+https blows up with a stack trace
[03:25] <jelmer> dysinger: Do you have libneon built with SSL support?
[03:26] <dysinger> regular https:// is acting like it's looking at as a bzr branch
[03:26] <lifeless> dysinger: its jelmer's 4am :- I think you'll get little now :)
[03:26] <dysinger> hah!
[03:26] <lifeless> have you looked in ~/.bzr.log ?
[03:26] <dysinger> He's up!
[03:26] <dysinger> ah ok two good suggestions.
[03:26] <lifeless> I wager its not loading the plugin
[03:26] <dysinger> 1st svn ls https:// works and yes svn --version shows https
[03:27] <dysinger> let me look at the log
[03:27] <jelmer> dysinger: the svn executable from the location you just installed to and with the same DYLD_LIBRARY_PATH set?
[03:27] <dysinger> FAQ!
[03:27] <dysinger> one sec maybe my bad
[03:29] <dysinger> I managed to install it in /usr/local/bin but svn --version reports 1.4.4 (version that comes with mac).  ???
[03:29] <dysinger> This is kicking my ass.
[03:30] <dysinger> I am setting DYLD and PYTHONPATH too
[03:30] <dysinger> PATH has /usr/local first
[03:31] <dysinger> ok I have more work to do
[03:31] <dysinger> my neon didn't install right.
[03:31]  * dysinger goes back to the salt mines
[03:33] <lifeless> spiv: how do you get remote server backtraces ?
[03:47] <j1mc> hello, i've read a little bit about the differences between bundles and regular patches, but i'm not sure i fully understand.  can anyone explain the advantages of a bundle vs. pushing up a regular patch (or set of patches) as a revision?
[03:48] <lifeless> bundles and pushing revisions are roughly equivalent
[03:48] <lifeless> think of it as a transport change
[03:48] <j1mc> transport change?
[03:49] <lifeless> however 'regular patches' means GNU patch output, which does not include: commit messages, mode changes, renames, deletes-as-deletes
[03:49] <beuno> j1mc, basically, bundles have bzr metadata about the commit(s), and a regular patch just has the diff for the changes to the code
[03:50] <lifeless> spiv: ping
[03:50] <minghua> lifeless: deletes-as-deletes?
[03:50] <j1mc> beuno: thanks.  (and thanks to you, too, lifeless).  what kind of bzr metadata might be included in the bundle?
[03:51] <lifeless> minghua: 'foo is deleted' is different to 'foo has a patch that removes <entire list of old lines>'
[03:52] <j1mc> ah, ok.
[03:53] <lifeless> minghua: its particularly different in terms of the conflicts you can give the user; and also how do you represent 'trunc() this file' if a delete is shown as deleting all the contents ;)).
[03:56] <minghua> lifeless: Ah, I see.  Thanks.
[04:04] <Verterok-laptop> moin
[04:05] <spiv> lifeless: http://rafb.net/p/JoRYz534.html
[04:06] <lifeless> spiv: bb:approve
[04:06] <Verterok> poolie, lifeless: I have a dmg for OS X 10.4 ready for a ride :)
[04:06] <poolie> Verterok, yay
[04:06] <spiv> lifeless: ta
[04:06] <poolie> Verterok, can you upload it to launchpad?
[04:06] <poolie> btw i spoke to them about the size limit
[04:06] <Verterok> it's ppc only
[04:06] <lifeless> Verterok: sweet
[04:06] <poolie> is 60MB ok?
[04:06] <lifeless> keithy_: ^
[04:07] <Verterok> poolie: 6MB
[04:08] <Verterok> there might be something wrong 6MB vs 60MB
[04:09] <Verterok> this dmg only contains bzr+pycrypto+paramiko
[04:10] <Verterok> aha, all the plugins missing :P
[04:11] <Verterok> I'm going to add Rebase and bzrtools to it, but I don't have QT installed in OS X so no Qbzr :(
[04:26] <Verterok> poolie: I misunderstood the question about the size (is too late here :P)
[04:40] <lifeless> Verterok: l)
[04:46] <Verterok> I have a dmg with bzr(pycrypto+paramiko) + bzrtools + bzr-rebase :)
[04:46] <lifeless> care to add bzr-email
[04:47] <Verterok> ok
[04:48] <Verterok> lifeless: trunk?
[04:49] <lifeless> yup
[04:51] <Verterok> trunk has not been published yet
[04:52] <lifeless> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr-email/trunk/
[04:52] <lifeless> dunno what you mean by not published yet
[04:52] <Verterok> is what launchpad say :)
[04:53] <Verterok> https://code.launchpad.net/~lifeless/bzr-email/trunk
[04:53] <lifeless> url ?
[04:53] <lifeless> ~bzr
[04:53] <lifeless> not ~lifeless
[04:53] <Verterok> ok, sorry
[04:54] <lifeless> thumper: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~bzr/bzr-email/trunk <-
[04:55] <lifeless> thumper: I didn't get any notification about that merge request
[04:55] <lifeless> thumper: so I didn't know it exists
[05:03] <Verterok> poolie: I'm going to upload it to: https://launchpad.net/bzr/1.1/1.1 it's ok?
[05:04] <poolie> yes, thanks
[05:09] <lifeless> spiv: down to 100 seconds in get_parents_map calls
[05:22] <lifeless> spiv: thats down from 237
[05:23] <spiv> lifeless: very nice
[05:23] <spiv> lifeless: that's for branching bzr.dev from London?
[05:26] <lifeless> yeah
[05:26] <lifeless> 115 seconds on my current test
[05:26] <lifeless> I'm done for the day;
[05:26] <lifeless> I'll commit and push
[05:27] <lifeless> if you re interested
[05:27] <lifeless> http://people.ubuntu.com/~robertc/baz2.0/search-results
[05:27] <lifeless> rev 3198 pushing now
[05:29] <lifeless> 15 seconds from startup to starting the stream in my 'last 100' test
[05:29] <lifeless> thats another 100% saving over my report earlier in the week
[05:30] <lifeless> your patch when it lands will help debug
[05:30] <lifeless> it seems to be falling into a 'one at a time' pathological mode
[05:31] <lifeless> it should be walking minimum-depth-at-a-time, and it may be that there are places where the search collapses; but I don't expect that.
[05:31] <poolie> lifeless, have a tolerable trip :)
[05:31] <lifeless> so this needs some good analysis and reporting to figure out what is going wrong; the hg recursive approach may be something to reintroduce
[05:31] <lifeless> I don't anticipategetting any hacking on this branch done next week
[05:32] <lifeless> but I'm quite happy with where it is getting to :)
[05:33] <lifeless> thats poolie
[05:34] <lifeless> poolie: oh you might like to mail me anything you want (other than the baz package stuff) for discussion with the distro.
[05:34] <lifeless> ciao.
[05:37] <thumper> lifeless: yeah, damn eh
[05:37] <thumper> lifeless: a bug report would be good :-)
[05:46] <Manfre> is it possible to modify the commit message for a revision?
[05:46] <poolie> Manfre, uncommit then commit again
[05:47] <Manfre> is there anyway to modify a revision that is not the head?
[06:10] <abentley> lifeless: The idea sounds fine.  I've never considered anything below Graph to be a stable interface.  It's Graphs that repos are required to provide.
[06:10] <abentley> Whatever way is most efficient for them.
[06:40] <ubotu> New bug: #183948 in bzr "can't PUSH over an sshfs fuse file share" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/183948
[06:41]  * spiv goes for a swim
[06:51] <thumper> abentley: man, when do you sleep?
[07:20]  * Verterok leaves, only two hours for sleep. seeya!
[07:21] <caelum_> f
[07:39] <AnMaster> how long as 1.1 been out?
[08:02] <AfC> AnMaster: a few days
[08:10] <AnMaster> ok
[08:10] <sabdfl> poolie: ping
[08:17] <soren> AnMaster: "Bazaar 1.1 was released on the 15th of January, 2008."  <---- Very first sentence on http://bazaar-vcs.org/
[08:21] <AnMaster> right
[09:17] <dato> jelmer: because I see python packages b-depending on python-all-dev *everywhere*, and it's not needed at all
[09:28] <dato> jelmer: omg, I don't know if you saw my question yesterday about making the svn cp from bzr-svn itself, but I tried it and it works...
[09:28] <dato> jelmer: so my bug has much less priority now, thanks to bzr-svn rocking ;)
[10:34] <ntoll> hi, how does bzr merge handle a move or delete on one branch and an edit on the other (since they were branched)?
[10:42] <ntoll> aha... just found the docs... looks like this case is handled
[10:45] <asac> is there an easy way (short hand) to export a series of commits as one-patch-per-commit?
[11:09] <stefanv> hey all, is there a way to remove binary files including their history from a bzr archive?
[11:09] <stefanv> s/archive/branch/
[11:10] <stefanv> I found that tracking jsmath-fonts is a big pain in the ass, with all its 20 000 odd files
[11:11] <stefanv> maybe I can check out before their inclusion, and apply all the patches that happened after their inclusion
[11:11] <lifeless> asak_: diff -r x..+1 in a loop perhaps ?
[11:12] <stefanv> hrm, bugger, those files were there since revision 1
[11:20]  * dato hands lifeless diff -c ;)
[11:32] <stefanv> did an experiment now, and seems like you can remove all traces of a binary file from a branch by doing 'bzr remove'.  Why is that even possible?  Shouldn't you be able to revert to any point in history?
[11:33] <dato> stefanv: no, remove does not remove all traces
[11:34] <stefanv> dato: hrm, interesting: because I had 88Mb's worth of binary files, and now the repo in total is only 18Mb
[11:37] <AfC> ... _is_ there a way to purge all evidence of something from a branch history & repo?
[11:38] <AfC> I mean, in purist terms you'd never need to, but there are pragmatic reasons (material committed illegally, security sensitive or privacy sensitive information at risk of being divulged, etc)
[11:38] <stefanv> AfC: well, I just made sure: when I remove those binary files, and do 'bzr uncommit', they don't come back
[11:38] <stefanv> so it definately permanently erases them
[11:39] <AfC> Assumint the
[11:39] <AfC> revision hasn't leaked anywhere... but the revision itself it's still in the repository. I think you could fetch it if you knew it's revid
[11:40] <stefanv> yes, if you knew which binary files to bring back (i.e. you still have the filename information)
[11:40] <stefanv> AFAIK in an SVN repository, the binary data itself is also stored
[11:40] <stefanv> hence my original question :)
[11:41] <luks> no, you can't remove anything from the repository permanently without rewriting it completely
[11:42] <stefanv> AfC: I would very much like to know the answer to your question above, as well.  sometimes, copyrighted code is checked into open source repos, which causes problems.
[11:42] <luks> I guess the size difference is because you count the working tree size
[11:42] <stefanv> luks: you cannot bring back those binary files, they are gone.
[11:42] <luks> you can
[11:42] <luks> bzr remove doesn't actually remove them from the history
[11:42] <stefanv> well, since my repo is now only 3.3Mb large, I'd like to know where it stores those 88Mb worth of files :)
[11:43] <stefanv> luks: no, sure, they *filename* info is still there... but the actual bytes are gone
[11:43] <luks> nope
[11:43] <stefanv> so, 88Mb in 3.3Mb, eh?
[11:43] <luks> if you just did bzr remove and bzr commit, all the bytes are still there
[11:44] <luks> the only thing I could imagine is that you haven't committed 'bzr add' of those files
[11:44] <dato> sounds like it
[11:44] <stefanv> they *were* tracked:
[11:45] <stefanv> [11:45] <stefanv> let me just recheck the original repo
[11:45] <luks> bzr cat -r REVISION_IN_WHICH_THE_FILE_WAS_ADDED sanum/static/javascript/jsMath/fonts/cmbx10/plain/85/char73.png
[11:46] <stefanv> ok, so it's head-in-the-sand time then?
[11:47] <stefanv> hrm, but wait
[11:47] <stefanv> if I do bzr log sanum/static/.... I should see something
[11:48] <stefanv> yeap, I don't think those files were tracked.  why don't they show up in bzr status then?
[11:49] <stefanv> ok, erase my previous 4 sentences
[11:49] <stefanv> the files *was* tracked from revision 1
[11:49] <stefanv> the bzr cat -r 1 command shows its contents
[11:50] <stefanv> which explains why bzr status doesn't explain it
[11:50] <stefanv> s/explain/show/
[11:50] <stefanv> luks: are you sure the bzr behaviour you  describe above is correct?
[11:51] <luks> yes
[11:52] <luks> you can never ever permanently remove anything from the repository
[11:52] <luks> it would break integrity of the repository
[11:52] <stefanv> something very strange going on.  I can confirm the behaviour you describe with a new repo, but not with my other one.
[11:52] <luks> the only way to remove them would be to "rewrite" the repository without those file
[11:55] <stefanv> luks: ok, figured out what was going on
[11:55] <stefanv> luks: the binary files are indeed tracked
[11:56] <stefanv> luks: but they are *much* smaller when they aren't physically written to disk
[11:56] <luks> 'physically written to disk' means in the working tree?
[11:56] <stefanv> luks: about 20000 odd files, each taking up a minimum space determined by the file-system configuration
[11:56] <stefanv> luks: yes, so if they are all stored in one big file, they are much much smaller
[11:57] <luks> 88MB vs. 3MB still seems too big difference
[11:57] <dato> 20000 files at 4k blog size would be 78mb
[11:58] <stefanv> well, the files are tiny, and an inode needs a min of 4 or 8K right?
[11:58] <dato> 20000 ~150 byte files make 3mb
[11:58] <luks> hm, makes sense
[11:58] <dato> so, it's possible
[11:59] <stefanv> my apologies for not believing that bzr could compress 90Mb into 3Mb :)
[11:59] <luks> :)
[12:00] <stefanv> now, I also know better than to try and rsync that repo
[12:19] <rjek> When I try to bzr push, I get an error about how the branches have diverged.  bzr merge then pulls these new changes.  There are no conflicts (the changes don't effect the same files).  What do I do after I've done that merge to allow me to push?
[12:20] <luks> commit
[12:20] <luks> every merge needs a commit
[12:20] <rjek> Ah, so I commit the differences from somebody else's branch to my one?
[12:20]  * rjek sees.  Ta.
[12:20] <luks> yes
[12:20] <rjek> As a convention, what do people tend to use as their commit messages for such merges?
[12:21] <luks> I usually use "Merge <URL>" or "Merge <branch name>"
[12:21] <rjek> Right.
[12:21] <luks> but some people prefer more descriptive messages
[12:21] <rjek> That seems fine.
[12:22]  * Ng would be very happy if a post-merge commit that hadn't changed anything other than the merge would do that automagically, I never have anything to add to the logs from the merged branch :)
[12:23] <luks> Ng: auto-merge is not always right
[12:23] <luks> even if there are no textual conflicts, you can't be sure the merge is right
[12:23] <Ng> luks: indeed. I only use bzr in very small and simple ways, so I appreciate that me wanting it to be easier isn't suitable for all ;)
[12:25] <rjek> :)
[12:34] <asac> lifeless: thanks ... didn't know about the +1 notation ;)
[12:34] <asac> guessing a patch-filename from comment would be nice to have automated though
[12:37] <dato> asac: I don't think that notation exists. you want diff -c
[12:42] <asac> dato: ok ... -c is even better :)
[12:43] <asac> btw, the foreach (ezbzr) branch isn't hosted at the place named on BzrPlugins page anymore. maybe remove it or contact the author.
[12:45] <asac> naybe the bazaar-cvs.org page should start to auto-mirror branches of plugins where license permits it?
[13:00] <abentley> thumper: Evidently, I slept just then.
[13:00] <thumper> and I'm just about to
[13:16] <abentley> (Geez, Thumper, when do you sleep?)
[13:17] <fullermd> Sleep?  I heard of that once, I think...
[13:17]  * fullermd checks google.
[13:18] <radix> I find merge commits the perfect place for NEWS-style descriptions. At the least, I use those commits alone to generate the release announcement.
[13:18] <radix> I also put ticket numbers in the commits for merges.
[13:19] <radix> and describe the change in high-level
[13:19] <luks> that works fine if you have a mainline and only merge feature branches
[13:20] <luks> but it's not that useful when you randomly sync with a few developers
[13:20] <radix> yeah. why would I do that random thing when I could do an organized thing? :)
[13:20] <luks> dunno, the "decentralized" thing :)
[13:21] <radix> my development is perfectly distributed.
[13:21]  * radix goes to get breakfast
[13:21] <luks> that doesn't mean decentralized
[13:36] <abentley> jelmer: I don't plan to ever work on trac-bzr again.
[13:36] <jelmer> abentley: oh, ok
[13:38] <stefanv> abentley: I didn't follow the rest of the thread -- is trac-bzr maintained at all?
[13:38] <abentley> stefanv: I have the impression that other people have been working on it.
[13:40] <stefanv> abentley: that's good news -- many projects simply won't switch if there isn't a supported trac backend available
[13:42] <AfC> Oh my. `meld` is amazing.
[13:42] <AfC> I wonder if we can find a way to feed it from bzr-gtk
[13:43]  * luks never really got any of those gui merge programs
[13:44] <stefanv> I'm guilty of still merging with emacs
[13:45] <jelmer> AfC: We've been discussing that, but the main problem at the moment is that there's no sane API that allows you to use it yet
[13:47] <AfC> jelmer: fair enough
[13:47] <jelmer> Of course, we could just fix meld but nobody has done that yet...
[13:47] <AfC> jelmer: (I just had a conflict and so for the heck of it tried
[13:48] <AfC> `meld DemoWindowRunner.java.OTHER DemoWindowRunner.java.THIS`
[13:48] <AfC> and it was glorious)
[13:48] <jelmer> yeah, it works and looks quite well
[13:48] <AfC> luks: I haven't tried it as a merging program, but to show the diff it was really slick
[13:49] <luks> AfC: I don't think you need to even specify filenames, it can figure out bzr conflicts itself
[13:50] <radix> speaking of meld, I'd love to use it with bzr but bzr diff doesn't have a --diff-cmd parameter
[13:51] <radix> (just for the diff viewing, of course. the merging would obviously require more work)
[13:52] <AfC> Whoa. So for merging / conflict resolution you just click on the arrows...
[13:52] <luks> radix: not sure if it works with meld, but there is `bzr diff --using`
[13:53] <brilliantnut> if meld takes file1 file2 as arguments then --using will work.
[13:53] <radix> that must only be in bzr.dev or something...
[13:53] <luks> 1.1 I think
[13:53] <brilliantnut> 1.1
[13:53] <radix> ah, cool
[13:54]  * radix clicks the little explodey down-arrow
[13:58] <radix> looks like it's not packaged yet, or something. guess I'll have to wait a couple day s:)
[13:59] <AfC> 'night
[14:00] <luks> radix: it's in ppa
[14:03] <elmo> missing postfix
[14:03] <elmo> bzr: ERROR: unknown kind 'missing'
[14:03] <elmo> ^-- halp?
[14:05] <lamont> elmo: bzr version maybe?
[14:05] <elmo> it's 1.0
[14:34] <mikl> how do I fix conflicts? The docs talk about conflict markers, whatever that is...
[14:34] <rjek> Manually, usually.
[14:34] <mikl> ensuring that .BASE, .THIS and .OTHER files are identical wont allow me to resolve it
[14:34] <mikl> nor will deleting them do the trick
[14:35] <dato> mikl: edit the conflicting file to make sure it's resolved, and then `bzr resolve FILE`
[15:02] <bac> mikl: using a tool like kdiff3 or meld makes it pretty easy
[15:03] <bac> i use the extmerge plugin which you may want to have a look at
[15:03] <mikl> bac: ok, thank you :)
[15:44] <rjek> So, what are people's suggestions for web-based bzr branch/repository browsers that don't require a big fat framework?
[15:59] <beuno> rjek, I've been working on a php-based solution
[15:59] <beuno> but it's not releaseable
[16:00] <TFKyle> beuno: implemented a lot of bzr in php?
[16:02] <rjek> Eugh.  I'm not sure I'd want to run a php-based one.
[16:02] <rjek> Especially given that we've banned PHP from our co-lo boxes.
[16:02] <beuno> TFKyle, yeap, quite a lot
[16:03] <rjek> Something that could do what bzr vis does would be extra lovely.
[16:08] <rjek> Additionally, are their C bindings to bzr so I can use it as a library from C and other languages?
[16:09] <corporate_cookie> im calling BZR from cron on a RHEL4 system with a parallel install of python2.3 and 2.4. Cron reports this error: /bin/sh: bzr: command not found. However bzr works otherwise
[16:09] <corporate_cookie> any ideas ? : )
[16:10] <rjek> What does "which bzr" say?
[16:10] <rjek> It may not be in the PATH of the environment that runs the cronjob.
[16:10] <corporate_cookie> rjek: it says /usr/bin/bzr
[16:11] <rjek> Try changing your cronjob to use /usr/bin/bzr rather than just bzr.  If that doesn't work, it may not be able to find any Python.
[16:11] <corporate_cookie> the job runs as root ...whos path is -bash: /usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/X11R6/bin
[16:11] <abadger1999> Does anyone know the plan regarding bzr versions and stability?  (ie: will there be a 1.0.x branch?  Will 1.x have API backwards compatibility? Business as usual?  Other?)
[16:12] <rjek> The environment that your cron runs in need not be the same as the one you get if you log in as root.
[16:12] <corporate_cookie> how do I determine what environment cron runs in
[16:13] <corporate_cookie> (my linux foo is weak)
[16:13] <rjek> corporate_cookie: Write a cronjob that just runs "env" - it'll email you with the environment :)
[16:14] <corporate_cookie> good thinking! :" )
[16:15] <rjek> I know nothing of Red Hat.  I've not used it in years.  I know less about Python, so if this doesn't reveal the answer obviously, I'm out of ideas :)
[16:18] <jam> abadger1999: generally business as usuall. We've already released 1.1, and 1.2 is on the way
[16:19] <abadger1999> jam: Thanks.  I guess I'll be updating for Fedora but holding at 1.0 for Red Hat/CentOS then.
[16:20] <jam> rjek: as for C bindings, you can embed the python interpreter in your C program
[16:20] <jam> rjek: then you would be working in terms of PyObjects, etc
[16:21] <rjek> jam: Eugh.  I'd rather avoid having to speak Python.  And embedding Python into Lua in order to query stuff nicely sounds like a hack :)
[16:21] <dato> abadger1999: I think cron resets PATH to something unuseable, you'll want to give PATH a value
[16:21] <jam> understandable, I don't think our data objects are terribly hard, but it would seem silly to reimplement everything
[16:22] <rjek> For example. subversion has a nice library you can link to directly from C.
[16:22] <jam> rjek: sure, but it was *written* in C
[16:22] <rjek> jam: Well, you can bind C functions to Python.  Is it not simple to bind Python functions to C?
[16:22] <rjek> Lua makes this pretty trivial.
[16:23] <rjek> I have no idea what Python's C interface is like, of course.
[16:23] <jam> It's interface is pretty decent
[16:23] <jam> IMO
[16:23] <jam> of course, it is up to you whether you would rather embed python
[16:24] <jam> or spawn a process and parse text
[16:24] <jam> bzrlib is a rather rich api
[16:24] <rjek> I'd rather use a C API, as that's then trivially used from pretty much everything.
[16:24] <jam> and 'bzr' is more focused on clients than scripters
[16:24] <rjek> Be it C, C++, Lua, or Perl.  Or whatever you fancy.
[16:24] <jam> except then you are stuck with the C data model, etc.
[16:25] <jam> and string processing and memory management is horribly painful at the C level
[16:25] <rjek> For a slight inconvience you gain a lot of flexibility, though.
[16:25] <jam> anyway, /me => away for a while
[16:25]  * rjek shrugs, libsvn's API's pretty elegant.
[17:53] <beuno> hmmm, I just upgrade a 3GB branch to packs, and now, the repository is twice it's size. repository/obsolete_packs/ seems to be the same size as repository/packs/.  Is this an expected behaviour?  (bzr 1.0)
[17:54] <jam> beuno: you can nuke obsolete_packs/*, bzr will clean it up eventually, we only keep it around to avoid race conditions with when the OS writes out new files versus deleting old ones
[17:55] <beuno> jam, great, thanks. Shouldn't there be a command that you cleans it for you?
[17:57] <jam> At the moment, it will be done at the next "autopack"
[17:57] <jam> which will be approximately 10 commits from now
[17:57] <jam> I've posted to the list about having "bzr pack" do it automatically
[17:58] <jam> we could add a new command, but it seems better suited to just add it into bzr pack
[17:58] <beuno> yes, bzr pack seems like the most intuitive (in fact, I ran it before to see if it would solve it)
[18:00] <ubotu> New bug: #184097 in bzr "[1.0.0] Should not die on error if cannot open .bzr.log" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184097
[18:36] <_flx> hi
[18:37] <_flx> is there any way when commiting with the command line to add endline in the commit message so separate two elements
[18:37] <_flx> ?
[18:38] <brilliantnut> _flx: is there a problem with opening the editor for entering your commit message?
[18:38] <_flx> brilliantnut, no the I would like to do it with the "-m" option
[18:39] <_flx> s/the/but
[18:43] <BasicOSX> Is there a way to get a remote bzr repository without all of the history? I just want a working copy of the bzr tree, to us, and save the disk space by not having the history
[18:47] <james_w> BasicOSX: I'm afraid you can't do that currently.
[18:48] <LarstiQ> lightweight checkout?
[18:50] <LeoNerd> bzr co --lightweight URL
[18:51] <brilliantnut> _flx: if you're on linux, then most shells will let you add a \ at the end of your line to escape the new line
[18:51] <LarstiQ> BasicOSX: for just a copy of the working tree, that works. But for any other bzr functionality it will have to hit the network.
[18:52] <_flx> brilliantnut, thx you
[18:53] <mtaylor> statik: I sent in the patch we were talking about
[19:05] <jelmer> what's the proper way to get the per-file ancestry these days?
[19:06] <ekimus_> hi, is check_signatures and create_signatures some magic thing? I just can't figure out how to specify the key, or do I have to explicitely set gpg_signing_command in the corresponding locations.conf section?
[19:08] <ekimus_> hmm or ist the signature stuff just used for email submissions?
[19:10] <Qhestion> anyone know where i can get paramiko (for sftp)? looks like the homepage is down :/
[19:10] <Qhestion> ahh wait... nevermind
[19:10] <Qhestion> its on launchpad :)
[19:12] <james_w> It's obviously been to long, I can't believe I got that wrong.
[19:12] <james_w> Hi LarstiQ, how are you?
[19:13] <LarstiQ> james_w: improving, thank you. How about you?
[19:13] <james_w> I'm well thanks.
[19:13] <james_w> Do you think you'll go to the sprint?
[19:13] <LarstiQ> james_w: not decided yet
[19:15] <james_w> LarstiQ: it would be great if you were there so we have a chance to meet.
[19:16] <LarstiQ> james_w: you're going?
[19:17] <james_w> LarstiQ: hopefully, but probably only for the last couple of days.
[19:18] <james_w> jelmer: will you be going?
[19:18] <LarstiQ> james_w: cool, that's certainly something I have to keep in mind then.
[19:20] <jelmer> james_w: Yep, I'll be there
[19:20] <james_w> great.
[19:26] <cr3> is bzr quicker or slower with some protocols? for example, is sftp known to be slow?
[19:28] <mtaylor> cr3: yes
[19:28] <mtaylor> cr3: sftp is _way_ slower than bzr+ssh
[19:28] <mtaylor> cr3: of course, there are some situations in which you still want to use sftp
[19:29] <mtaylor> cr3: such as when the server you are dealing with doesn't have bzr installed or has an old version installed
[20:12] <deepjoy> if I want to use bzr as a server for the central repos with authentication with a relatively slow connection between the repos and the developers what format should I be using? i.e. bzr+ssh bzr+http sftp etc.
[20:13] <beuno> deepjoy, bzr+ssh or bzr+sftp is fine
[20:14] <deepjoy> also is are the repository format considerations I should be aware of
[20:14] <deepjoy> I'm converting my repos from CVS using cvsps plugin
[20:15] <deepjoy> is the default repos storage format that bzr 1.1 converts to the latest?
[20:15] <deepjoy> or is there some other repos format that is not the default but may be different (not necesarily better) in it's performance
[20:15] <beuno> deepjoy, yeap, packs, which is the format to use
[20:17] <deepjoy> so I gather bzr+http is still in it's nacency and using apache for ldap auth using mod_ldap is not stable yet?
[20:17] <deepjoy> so pack is the default on 1.1?
[20:20] <beuno> deepjoy, bzr+ssh is the fastest method, bzr+http isn't ready for pushing yet AFAIK
[20:20] <beuno> and yes, packs has been the default format since <0.92
[20:20] <beuno> it has a lot of performance work done on it
[20:21] <beuno> so using 1.1 and bzr+ssh seems like the way to go
[20:21] <fullermd> No, it's existed since 0.92.  Didn't get switched to default 'till 1.0, I think.
[20:21] <beuno> ah, could be true
[20:21] <beuno> 1.0 and on for sure
[20:25] <deepjoy> thanks
[20:25] <beuno> np  :D
[20:25] <deepjoy> I was trying to get bzr+http working some time back on 1.0 and spiv pointed out how to get it working for push
[20:26] <deepjoy> it does do push
[20:26] <deepjoy> the perf  is not too good yet
[20:27] <deepjoy> I believe there is a verb addition task in launch pad for that
[20:27] <beuno> ah, I haven't tried that out in a while
[20:27] <beuno> good to know though
[21:17] <pfharlock> I have a rather dumb question, if you delete a branch from a shared repository using the os filesystem commands, is there a way to get that branch back out of the repository?
[21:18] <james_w> pfharlock: yes.
[21:18] <james_w> pfharlock: the easiest way is to install the 'heads' plugin.
[21:19] <pfharlock> ahhh, ok, so there isn't a built in way to do it.
[21:19] <dato> I think I'd be amused by the output of `heads` in my repositories, where I do zillions of `uncommits`
[21:19] <james_w> then run that (with an option that I forget, something like --dead), and find the one that you want, and then you should be able to 'bzr branch -rrevid:whatever another_branch new'
[21:59] <fullermd> Hm.  Today's bzr.dev seems to not like talking to 1.0 over bzr+ssh...
[21:59] <fullermd> r3191 works; 3192 fails.
[22:00] <dato> fullermd: there's a msg from lifeless on list about that
[22:01] <dato> fullermd: subject.*api break
[22:01] <fullermd> No, that's bzr.dev <-> older bzr.dev, not bzr.dev <-> 1.0
[22:01] <dato> ah
[22:01] <dato> indeed, misread
[22:02] <fullermd> Forgot about that mail, though.
[22:02]  * fullermd wanders off to post a followup.
[23:01] <dysinger> So I am going to keep playing with OS X bzr-svn but I have to comment that it's a PITA and not ready for the masses
[23:01] <dysinger> Git-svn is orders of magnitude faster and smaller on disk.
[23:02] <dysinger> But that is not a criticism - it's just is what it is :)
[23:03] <dysinger> s/it\'s/it
[23:03] <foom> the actual program git-svn is smaller on disk?
[23:03] <dysinger> My repository on Git is 181MB - with bzr-svn it's twice that.
[23:04] <jelmer> dysinger: Are you using packs?
[23:04] <dysinger> --rich-root-packs y
[23:04] <dysinger> Let me get the actual numbers
[23:04] <fullermd> That's probably more git/bzr than git-svn/bzr-svn.
[23:05] <dysinger> y
[23:05] <dysinger> You guys totally win in the UI
[23:05] <dysinger> I like it better
[23:05] <foom> maybe bzr should just be a UI for git. :p
[23:06] <dysinger> no
[23:06] <dysinger> that would not work.
[23:06] <jelmer> dysinger: Afaik the last comparisons actually showed that bzr's on disk format was in the same order of size as gits
[23:06] <TFKyle> foom: that would kind of suck, you'd loose decent support for windows
[23:06] <dysinger> hmm let me check myself.
[23:06] <fullermd> I doubt that.  Maybe an un-repack'd git...
[23:07] <dysinger> Yeah I just packed and pruned and GC git
[23:07] <dysinger> but it's the entire trunk and 2 branches thats' 181MB
[23:07] <jelmer> dysinger: Did you garbage collect for bzr ?
[23:07] <dysinger> no
[23:07] <dysinger> enlighten me
[23:08] <fullermd> In some quick testing I happened to do the other month, bzr in packs won by a little bit (5% or so) against a straight git import, but repacked git was half the size or something.
[23:08] <jelmer> "bzr pack" should do the packing I think
[23:08] <jelmer> but I'm not sure if that's all you can do to make storage more efficient
[23:08] <jelmer> fullermd: Did you try repacking the bzr packs?
[23:08] <jelmer> lifeless: ^
[23:09] <lifeless> jelmer: no we haven't
[23:09] <lifeless> fullermd: yes thats known; its even in my email from tuesday or so about what we need to do for large projects
[23:10] <lifeless> fullermd: '50% storage reduction' - we have multiple answers that give better compression; just have to choose one and implement
[23:10] <lifeless> fullermd: and I know john is hoping to get onto that in th enext week or so
[23:10] <fullermd> Oh, I know.  I wasn't _surprised_ by it.
[23:10] <jelmer> lifeless: thanks
[23:11] <jelmer> dysinger: out of curiosity - what's the speed difference between bzr-svn and git-svn like?
[23:12] <dysinger> Well i can compare both packed and make some commits and updates with "time"
[23:14] <dysinger> both repos with trunk and 2 branches :  git packed is 187M vs bzr packed is 347M
[23:14] <fullermd> Really, my biggest current grump that's semi-storage-related is the inability to log multiple files at once (of which 'recursive log' is just a special case).  Smaller is good, but I'm not really hurting on size anywhere important.
[23:14] <elmo> hey, can I whine about my bzr commit breakage again?
[23:15] <dysinger> so 150MB is nothing to sneeze at
[23:15] <elmo> bzr: ERROR: unknown kind 'missing'
[23:15] <elmo> with 1.0; I couldn't find any bugs about it; before I go trying to boil it down to a reprdoucable test case, does anyone have any ideas?
[23:16] <lifeless> elmo: file bugs always
[23:16] <lifeless> elmo: knowing it happened is a useful data point; reproducability is great but not as important as knowing it exists (and always include the .bzr.log snippet for the error)
[23:17] <lifeless> dysinger: we'll be fixing that by 1.4 I think.
[23:17] <elmo> lifeless: sure, but I'm leary about how much info I can include in the commit msg
[23:17] <elmo> err
[23:17] <elmo> brain hard
[23:18] <elmo> s/commit msg/bug/
[23:18] <lifeless> elmo: nothing in the .bzr.log will have content, so unless you are naming files with your passwords :))
[23:18] <lifeless> elmo: anyhow, sed FTW
[23:30] <dysinger> So Jelmer my latest attempt to use a clean build of Subversion 1.5 trunk has failed too.  Everything works, I can use svn and all the transports (http/s, svn, ssh) but on bzr-svn I cannot use https without it blowing up.  I can use http etc no problem.
[23:32] <dysinger> I get this -> Assertion failed: (g->gc.gc_refs != _PyGC_REFS_UNTRACKED), function instancemethod_dealloc, file Objects/classobject.c, line 2285.
[23:32] <dysinger> Abort trap
[23:32] <dysinger> :/
[23:32] <dysinger> but only on https svn repos
[23:33] <dysinger> svn ls, co, info etc all work with 1.5 and ssl
[23:33] <lifeless> fullermd: you know the drill; bug or list discussion kthzbye
[23:34] <fullermd> Eh?  For what?
[23:45] <lifeless> fullermd: log N files
[23:46] <ubotu> New bug: #184196 in bzr "BzrError: unknown kind 'missing'" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/184196
[23:46] <fullermd> Oh.  I'm pretty sure there's already at least one bug on that.  And besides, everybody knows it, and I thought handling that better was one of the points of the in-progress inventory work anyway.
[23:47] <lifeless> fullermd: it can be supported to day; speed is orthogonal to functionality
[23:50] <fullermd> bug 97715 at least
[23:50] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 97715 in bzr "bzr log DIR should show changes under dir" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/97715
[23:54] <elmo> is anyone working on bzr support for reviewboard?
[23:56] <lifeless> elmo: yes
[23:56] <lifeless> elmo: statik's friends
[23:57] <elmo> k
[23:57] <elmo> git's interface is apparently only 150 lines or so is all
[23:57] <elmo> anyway


[00:15] <glorious> Yes acerimmer I think it worked.  I have to reboot to confirm.
[00:15] <acerimmer> outstanding.  lemme know
[00:24] <nuboon2age> acerimmer, it worked 1/2 way.  The logout screen was correct, the login screen was still lubuntu
[00:25] <acerimmer> i got instant changes when I tried it?  try a diff screen and see
[02:00] <dododoo> hey guys...i updated from 9.10 to 10.4 in mythbuntu and now all my application fonts are like micro size....is there a way to put all fonts to default sizes?  like a reconfigure fonts?
[02:01] <dododoo> mythbuntu uses xfce
[03:38] <newtoubuntu> I need help with MythTV; I am very new to Ubuntu - I downloaded MythTv and have no clue how to set it up to watch television.
[03:39] <newtoubuntu> did I join an empty room?
[03:41] <collinp> No.
[03:41] <collinp> There's just not many people around right now. No clue why.
[03:41] <newtoubuntu> awwe
[03:41] <newtoubuntu> I see
[03:41] <collinp> I've very little experience with MythTV, though, so I can't be of much help.
[03:41] <newtoubuntu> are you familiar with Mythtv?
[03:41] <newtoubuntu> i c
[03:41] <collinp> I'll see what I can do in terms of pointing you in the right direction, though.
[03:41] <newtoubuntu> thanks man
[03:42] <newtoubuntu> it says there are 53 people in this room???/
[03:42] <collinp> Yeah.
[03:42] <collinp> There's probably something relating to what you need in the MythTV user manual: http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User_Manual:Index
[03:42] <MagicJ> it would do no harm to ask the question in the #ubuntu area
[03:43] <collinp> Then again, this is also a help channel, so they can get support here. Or should be able to, at least.
[03:43] <collinp> I'm around most of the time, but yeah.
[03:44] <newtoubuntu> I will look again in the MythTV wiki.
[03:45] <newtoubuntu> are you familiar with another DVR/PVR option?
[03:45] <newtoubuntu> like Boxxe?
[03:47] <newtoubuntu> there is nobody in #ubuntu area
[03:47] <newtoubuntu> just kidding
[03:47] <newtoubuntu> mispelled
[04:07] <phillw> newtoubuntu: you could always work your way down this list & see if one of the rooms is alive ;-) http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/IRC
[04:07] <newtoubuntu> thanks dude
[04:08] <MagicJ> I would like to put a "log out" icon on my desktop.   What is the command for gnome logout.  Sort of equivalent to exit at the shell is what I want
[04:33] <dragondon>  how does one stop iptables from logging every dropped connection into the system logs.  I've deleted the rule that tells it to..
[04:40] <dragondon> it seems I delete a rule and suddenly it's back....rather confused here...
[05:18] <kidtp> hello... this isnt related to ubuntu but what is the channel i could go to if i am having trouble with my xbox? would it be microsoft or xbox or xboxlive or something like that??
[05:58] <ZachK_> n8ofsp8ds: ok hey again
[06:00] <n8ofsp8ds> ya
[06:28] <n8ofsp8ds> zach
[06:28] <ZachK_> n8ofsp8ds: Yup
[06:29] <n8ofsp8ds> so i was trying to install srware iron browers
[06:29] <ZachK_> n8ofsp8ds: ok are you running an Ubuntu install?
[06:29] <n8ofsp8ds> how do you install files
[06:29] <n8ofsp8ds> no wubi
[06:30] <ZachK_> Ubuntu 10.04?
[06:30] <n8ofsp8ds> yep
[06:30] <ZachK_> ok
[06:30] <ZachK_> Go to the Applications -> Software Center
[06:31] <ZachK_> Search for the program and install it
[06:31] <n8ofsp8ds> thats it
[06:31] <n8ofsp8ds> lol
[06:31] <n8ofsp8ds> wow i feel dumb
[06:31] <ZachK_> https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/add-applications/C/index.html
[06:31] <n8ofsp8ds> one more thing i was trying to install some audio codecs and im keep getting an erro
[06:32] <n8ofsp8ds> error
[06:32] <ZachK_> n8ofsp8ds: no you're not dumb....it will take some getting used to....
[06:32] <ZachK_> What audio codecs?
[06:32] <n8ofsp8ds> for rhytem box
[06:32] <n8ofsp8ds> for my ipod
[06:32] <ZachK_> ok
[06:33] <ZachK_> ah rthymbox rthymbox...one sec
[06:33] <ZachK_> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Rhythmbox
[06:33] <ZachK_> check that out
[06:34] <ZachK_> I'm currently using windows so I'm having to search..
[06:34] <n8ofsp8ds> ya i plan on dual booting
[06:34] <n8ofsp8ds> even when i get use to it
[06:34] <ZachK_> apt:ubuntu-restricted-extras?section=universe?section=multiverse
[06:35] <ZachK_> copy that and paste it into your web browser http bar
[06:35] <n8ofsp8ds> alright
[06:36] <n8ofsp8ds> well im heading to bed later thanks for the help again
[07:53] <tofa> I have loaded windows xp onto my laptop and then ubuntu 10.04 now in the dual boot menu xp doesn't appear.
[07:55] <hobgoblin> tofa: open a terminal from the apps > accessories menu - run    sudo update-grub   give your password and see if it finds it now
[07:56] <tofa> Hodgoblin:
[07:56] <tofa> This is what it found:
[07:56] <tofa> cd ~/Desktop tar xvf testdisk-6.11.1.linux26.tar.bz2 sudo testdisk-6.11/linux/testdisk_static /dev/sdb
[07:57] <hobgoblin> update-grub found that?
[07:57] <hobgoblin> do cd first and try again
[08:00] <tofa> cd
[08:00] <hobgoblin> yes - on it's own
[08:01] <hobgoblin> then do sudo update-grub again
[08:02] <tofa> cd ~/Desktop tar xvf testdisk-6.11.1.linux26.tar.bz2 sudo testdisk-6.11/linux/testdisk_static /dev/sdb
[08:03] <tofa> The same thing as without cd
[08:04] <hobgoblin> tofa - highlight the whole text showing in your terminal please - go to paste.ubuntu.com - paste the text in there - put a name in the name box - then hit paste - give us the url you get - I can see what you are seeing then
[08:06] <tofa> Done
[08:08] <hobgoblin> what's the url?
[08:09] <tofa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445470/
[08:09] <tofa> sorry forgot that bit
[08:11] <hobgoblin> :)
[08:12] <hobgoblin> can you run sudo fdisk -l and pastebin that for me please - that is a lower case L not a 1
[08:13] <tofa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445471/
[08:13] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> anyone up in here
[08:14] <hobgoblin> yes
[08:15] <hobgoblin> tofa: let me have a think - it's early and I'm waking up still :) I'll be back soon (ish)
[08:15]  * ZachK_ is up as well
[08:15] <ZachK_> hey hobgoblin
[08:15] <hobgoblin> hi
[08:15] <ZachK_> ZeRoDeAtH50435: what do you need
[08:15] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> ok I just found this video and I wanted to know if anyone knew how I can set my desktop to something like that
[08:16] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU3ZwDBLqu8
[08:16] <ZachK_> compiz
[08:17] <ZachK_> don't know if you can get it completely like that but it's a start
[08:17] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> I did not see those options
[08:18] <ZachK_> well like i said...not sufre
[08:18] <ZachK_> 'sure
[08:18] <ZachK_> never used or will use compiz either so...
[08:18] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> ok then
[08:18] <ZachK_> sorry
[08:18] <ZachK_> ZeRoDeAtH50435: type /join #compiz
[08:19] <ZachK_> they might be able to help you out there
[08:20] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> ok there is a channel for everything
[08:20] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> thanks
[08:24] <hobgoblin> tofa: can you run this and paste it for me please - sudo cat /boot/grub/grub.cfg | grep "menuentry" | cut -d '"' -f 2
[08:25] <hobgoblin> I'd be inclined towards copy and paste there :)
[08:26] <tofa> http://paste.ubuntu.com/445476/
[08:27] <hobgoblin> I'm not getting much luck here - I can ask someone later today - if there's no-one else in here able to help it mightbe worth coming back later on - sort of 5 or 6 hours
[08:27] <tofa> Cheers.
[08:27] <hobgoblin> alternatively try #ubuntu or a thread on the forums
[08:27] <tofa> How can I access the NFTS
[08:27] <tofa> i.e.
[08:28] <tofa>  /dev/sda1
[08:30] <hobgoblin> should be there in places - click on it and it should mount - might want your password
[08:35] <ZeRoDeAtH50435> how do I set my HDMI to 1080p and the screen size to 1366x768 I think
[10:46] <joe11> hey guys i started using unbuntu and i was trying to install a printer and it ask for password and it wont accept my password
[10:46] <joe11> keeps saying invalid
[10:46] <hobgoblin> caps lock - spelling ?
[10:46] <joe11> check that
[10:47] <hobgoblin> do you have root rights? is this the first account on the computer?
[10:47] <joe11> how do get that
[10:47] <joe11> you
[10:47] <hobgoblin> sudo
[10:47] <joe11> im new to linux so
[10:47] <joe11> sudo ?
[10:47] <hobgoblin> how are you trying to install this printer?
[10:48] <joe11> clicking on the deb file
[10:48] <hobgoblin> yea - I understand you are new :)
[10:48] <joe11> deb.sh file
[10:48] <joe11> then i click on run
[10:48] <hobgoblin> ok - then assuming you are the only user and you are using the account you set up ubuntu with then your password should do the job
[10:49] <hobgoblin> deb.sh ? where did you get this driver from? and have you first just tried the printers app in the system preferences menu?
[10:49] <joe11> ya
[10:49] <joe11> cant find drivers
[10:49] <joe11> had dl it
[10:50] <joe11> to
[10:50] <hobgoblin> ok - so where did you get it and what printer is it please
[10:50] <joe11> lexmark pro 705
[10:51] <joe11> from there website
[10:51] <hobgoblin> I thought you were going to say lexmark ... hang on a mo
[10:54] <hobgoblin> joe11: does double clicking open a program called gdebi?
[10:55] <joe11> not that i know of
[10:57] <hobgoblin> joe11: I assume that the file is on the desktop - open a terminal from the apps accessories menu - do cd Des<tab>  - use the Tab key to autocomplete
[10:57] <hobgoblin> then do sudo ./lex<tab>  the thing should run then - it will need your normal password - and it will not show in the terminal as you type - this is normal
[10:59] <hobgoblin> I downloaded the thing and ran it here with no issue
[11:00] <joe11> bash: syntax error near unexpected token `newline'
[11:02] <hobgoblin> from what command - paste the command which gave the error here please
[11:02] <hobgoblin> morning starcraftman lazybug
[11:05] <hobgoblin> joe11: it installed here - I went through the thing to the detect printer window
[11:05] <joe11> i putting what you told me and it giving a list of things
[11:05] <joe11> in termial
[11:05] <hobgoblin> ok
[11:05] <lazybug> morning
[11:06] <hobgoblin> joe11: it should have opened the lexmark installer - has it?
[11:07] <joe11> nope
[11:07] <joe11> i need root access
[11:08] <hobgoblin> the password still fails then
[11:08] <joe11> ya
[11:08] <joe11> its driving me crazy
[11:08] <joe11> lol
[11:08] <joe11> doesnt make sense
[11:08] <hobgoblin> back to the questions I asked at the beginning which you've not answered - is this the first account on the computer?
[11:09] <joe11> yes
[11:09] <joe11> sorry
[11:09] <hobgoblin> are you using the account you set the system up with
[11:09] <joe11> yes
[11:09] <hobgoblin> in the terminal run sudo -i
[11:09] <hobgoblin> give your password - paste the output you get after the password
[11:12] <joe11> ok now it says root@nathan-desktop
[11:12] <hobgoblin> ok - exit please
[11:12] <hobgoblin> that is type exit and enter
[11:13] <joe11> also sudo -i  would let me type my full password
[11:13] <hobgoblin> I don't want you in there :)
[11:13] <hobgoblin> and sudo ./lex<tab> didnt ?
[11:14] <joe11> it says no such directory
[11:14] <joe11> probably because its in the desktop
[11:14] <hobgoblin> Desktop not desktop
[11:14] <hobgoblin> big big difference
[11:14] <hobgoblin> cd Desktop
[11:15] <hobgoblin> then sudo ./lex<tab> should fill in the whole file name - then enter and it will ask for password again
[11:17] <joe11> damn it keeps saying wrong password but the password works for everthing else
[11:18] <hobgoblin> joe11: please copy everything that is in your terminal - highlight it with the mouse - and I mean everything
[11:18] <joe11> athan@nathan-desktop:~$ cd Desktop
[11:18] <joe11> nathan@nathan-desktop:~/Desktop$  sudo ./lex<tab
[11:18] <joe11> bash: tab: No such file or directory
[11:18] <joe11> nathan@nathan-desktop:~/Desktop$ '/home/nathan/Desktop/lexmark-inkjet-09-driver-1.5-1.i386.deb.sh'
[11:19] <hobgoblin> joe11: try this first chmod +x ~/Desktop/lexmark-inkjet-09-driver-1.5-1.i386.deb.sh
[11:20] <joe11> nathan@nathan-desktop:~/Desktop$  chmod +x ~/Desktop/lexmark-inkjet-09-driver-1.5-1.i386.deb.sh
[11:20] <joe11> nathan@nathan-desktop:~/Desktop$
[11:20] <hobgoblin> please do not paste multiple lines here - use paste.ubuntu.com :)
[11:20] <hobgoblin> joe11: ok now sudo ./lexmark-inkjet-09-driver-1.5-1.i386.deb.sh
[11:20] <drubin> joe11: now run the sudo ./lex<tab> again
[11:22] <joe11> holy crap it work
[11:22] <drubin> ~\o/~
[11:22] <hobgoblin> joe11: woohoo - I didn't need to make the thing executable - no idea why you did
[11:23] <joe11> me either
[11:23] <drubin> hobgoblin: you did sudo bash ./lex<tab>
[11:23] <drubin> where bash is the executable thingy
[11:23] <hobgoblin> drubin: just sudo ./blah
[11:24] <drubin> wooknows
[11:24] <hobgoblin> yep :)
[11:31] <joe11> one more thing how do i install programs from website instead using ubuntu software center
[11:31] <joe11> websites
[13:40] <bobo123> hello
[13:41] <bobo123> I want to copy an ntfs-partition with dd if=/dev/sda1 of=dev_hda1 bs=64K and wonder if I should do something before that command?
[13:42] <bobo123> I havent used that partition yet since I restarted the computer so it isn't mounted, but should I write something to make shure it isn't mounted before the command is done?
[13:56] <bobo123> hi sharles, do you know if it is possible to temporary prevent mounting of a partition?
[14:04] <sharles> don't know, but interested, too, in locking down Ubuntu desktops on network
[14:06] <bobo123> aha
[15:59] <magicj> I want to add a "print to pdf " file printer - I know I have done it in the past and it was easy.  How do I do it
[16:01] <Chesamo> magicj: Ubuntu already has one by default.
[16:02] <magicj> That's what I thought but I do not see it when I chose 'print' nor when I go to system/printing
[16:03] <magicj> solved it - I just needed to install cups-pdf which was not there by default
[16:03] <magicj> oops
[16:03] <magicj> ty anyway
[16:15] <CSiD> Can I get some help with choosing a Linux distro? I have been using linux for 2 years but all the distro's I have been using are very unstable on my hardware
[16:16] <Chesamo> CSiD Well, what kind of hardware are we looking at?
[16:16] <CSiD> 64-bit Dell Inspiron 1750
[16:17] <CSiD> Intel integrated graphics, 2.4dual core Intel processor
[16:17] <CSiD> 6GB RAM
[16:17] <CSiD> Marvell Yukon ethernet
[16:17] <CSiD> Intel pro/wireless
[16:17] <Chesamo> CSiD You can place all of that on one line, you know.
[16:17] <CSiD> SD Card reader
[16:17] <CSiD> sorry, first time on IRC
[16:17] <Chesamo> CSiD Also, which kind of Intel processor?
[16:18] <CSiD> dual core centrino
[16:18] <CSiD> 640bit
[16:18] <CSiD> 64-bit*
[16:18] <Chesamo> CSiD The centrino line is a specification, not a specific CPU.
[16:18] <CSiD> 1 sec I'll check my lshw
[16:18] <Chesamo> CSiD I ask because I'm looking at the product page and they allow the older Pentium Dual CPUs.
[16:19] <CSiD>      *-cpu
[16:19] <CSiD>           description: CPU
[16:19] <CSiD>           product: Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     P8600  @ 2.40GHz
[16:19] <CSiD>           vendor: Intel Corp.
[16:19] <CSiD>           physical id: 400
[16:19] <CSiD>           bus info: cpu@0
[16:19] <CSiD>           slot: Microprocessor
[16:19] <CSiD>           size: 1600MHz
[16:19] <CSiD>           capacity: 1600MHz
[16:19] <CSiD>           width: 64 bits
[16:19] <CSiD>           clock: 266MHz
[16:19] <Chesamo> CSiD Don't paste multiple linws
[16:19] <CSiD>           capabilities: fpu fpu_exception wp vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx x86-64 constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good pni dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 sss
[16:19] <Chesamo> lines*
[16:19] <CSiD> sorry
[16:20] <Chesamo> CSiD If you have multiple lines, use the pastebin http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
[16:20] <Angus> can someone answer a simple question about resolv.conf for me?
[16:20] <Chesamo> CSiD Your hardware looks simple enough, can you define "unstable" for me?
[16:20] <Chesamo> Angus: Post the question and if anyone knows the answer they'll respond
[16:20] <Angus> thanks
[16:21] <Angus> from my understanding of the file
[16:21] <Angus> the lines that start with nameserver
[16:21] <Chesamo> Angus: If you can, limit it to two lines or less, as well. That makes it easier to read quickly.
[16:21] <CSiD> at random intervals system locks up and screen freezes, fans stil lrun healthily, but no interrupts are received, even plugging in and/or removing power cable doesnt have reactions, and the sound sticks like a broken cd-player
[16:21] <Angus> the ip addresses on those lines are "asked" to convert a url into an ip
[16:22] <CSiD> happened on Debian,Crunchbang, Fedora and OpenSuse
[16:22] <CSiD> all I need is a steady fast development platform for python perl java C C++
[16:22] <Angus> is that accurate and what do the lines that say domain lan and search lan do?
[16:22] <Chesamo> CSiD Have you looked at the kernel logs to try and see what's causing the problem?
[16:22] <Angus> (and sorry for the length
[16:22] <CSiD> where is the file ?
[16:23] <Chesamo> CSiD the dmesg command will bring up the kernel log.
[16:24] <CSiD> [   21.935625] [drm:i915_setparam] *ERROR* unknown parameter 4
[16:25] <Chesamo> CSiD That's a very, very specific error. Context? http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
[16:26] <CSiD> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/445624/
[16:28] <Chesamo> CSiD I see two things, neither of which are definitely going to solve your problem. What distro is this in?
[16:28] <CSiD> crunchbang 9.04 a ubunt uderivative
[16:28] <CSiD> 64 bit*
[16:29] <Chesamo> The first thing I see is that the hardware wireless switch is off
[16:29] <Chesamo> which errors iwconfig
[16:29] <CSiD> I havent used wireless yet
[16:29] <Chesamo> Also I see VLC crasing when it attempts to load the Pulse Audio dynamic library
[16:30] <CSiD> yeah but then starts fine right afterwards and crash timing is unrelated to VLC
[16:31] <CSiD> I dont think it managed to log the crash
[16:31] <Chesamo> CSiD What kernel version are you running
[16:32] <CSiD> pass, its based on Ubuntu Jaunty (9.04)
[16:32] <CSiD> but same occured in the newest Debian
[16:32] <Chesamo> CSiD That's not the question I asked. Paste the output of uname -a
[16:33] <CSiD> sorry
[16:33] <CSiD> Linux andrew-laptop 2.6.28-13-generic #45-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 30 22:12:12 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[16:34] <Chesamo> CSiD Let me doublecheck something
[16:34] <CSiD> ok
[16:34] <Chesamo> CSiD Have you tried updating to the latest kernel?
[16:35] <CSiD> what command do I run to do that?
[16:35] <Chesamo> CSiD sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude safe-upgrade
[16:36] <CSiD> running atm
[16:36] <Chesamo> CSiD The current kernel version is 2.6.32-22
[16:37] <Chesamo> CSiD For Ubuntu, anyway.
[16:37] <CSiD> says a few more seconds
[16:40] <CSiD> the last line was 'Current status: 7 updates [-16].
[16:40] <CSiD> '
[16:41] <Chesamo> CSiD Did you run both commands?
[16:41] <CSiD> yeah
[16:41] <CSiD> Linux andrew-laptop 2.6.28-13-generic #45-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 30 22:12:12 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[16:42] <Chesamo> CSiD You have to reboot for a kernel update to take effect.
[16:42] <CSiD> ok, back i na few minutes
[16:43] <magicj> In my over zealousness to clean the desktop I have removed the panel that showed the minimized tasks - so I now have a tendancy to open firefox again since I do not see that it is there - how do I get this back
[16:44] <Chesamo> magicj: Right-click on a Panel > Add to Panel > Window List
[16:45] <CSiD> back
[16:45] <magicj> ty - I knew it would be easy
[16:45] <CSiD> Linux andrew-laptop 2.6.28-19-generic #61-Ubuntu SMP Wed May 26 23:32:46 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[16:45] <magicj> much appreciated
[16:46] <CSiD> is it just me or did the upgrading kernel not work?
[16:48] <CSiD> Chesamo , I rebooted and he uname -a is still the same
[16:50] <Chesamo> CSiD Run sudo aptitude safe-upgrade and pastebin the output please?
[16:51] <CSiD> wats the lin kto the pastebin again?
[16:51] <Chesamo> CSiD http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/
[16:51] <CSiD> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/445633/
[16:52] <Chesamo> CSiD Interesting... The only thing I can think of is that maybe 9.04 can't upgrade to the latest kernel? It'd be an odd thing but possible...
[16:53] <CSiD> well tbh I am at the point that all I need is to get any Linux distro installed which will not crash in any circumstance while I am just watchign dvd's/listenign to music and programming (new semester starts n 2-3 months and i need ot be accustomed to my ssytem by then)
[16:55] <Chesamo> CSiD Can you not try 10.04? Since you clearly know what you're doing I can happily suggest my personal derivative that removes a lot of the unnecessary tools that most power users don't need
[16:56] <CSiD> well if you could tel lme a derivative that wil lbe light, no games, just enough for what I want then I would be privelidged to know
[16:56] <Chesamo> CSiD http://www.cs.uml.edu/~aveilleu/projects/ubuntu-minimal/
[16:56] <Chesamo> CSiD It's not "light" per se, as it uses GNOME, but it certainly takes fewer resources than the mainline distro
[16:58] <CSiD> so Alternate install cd yeah?
[16:58] <CSiD> downloading now
[16:58] <Chesamo> CSiD Yeah. It takes the command-line install and builds a graphical environment from there.
[16:59] <CSiD> so it takes me directly to a terminal and I just run sud oapt-get install ubuntu-desktop
[16:59] <CSiD> then it lets me instal leverythign I need  and doesnt put anything else on?
[17:00] <Chesamo> CSiD: No. You download a script that I wrote and run that. ubuntu-desktop installs a ton of extra programs that you (in particular) don't want, like games.
[17:00] <CSiD> what script?
[17:01] <Chesamo> CSiD: Read all of the directions. The text version of the script is here: http://www.cs.uml.edu/~aveilleu/projects/ubuntu-minimal/mini.sh.txt
[17:02] <CSiD> impressive script :D
[17:02] <Chesamo> CSiD: That's the second version of it. The first version was atrocious x_x  The project has a Launchpad, if you're interested at all.
[17:03] <CSiD> whats launchpad?
[17:04] <Chesamo> CSiD It's the Canonical-funded project management website. https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-desktop-minimal
[17:05] <CSiD> wow, you work on that...awesome.......
[17:05] <CSiD> is there any way I would be able to help?
[17:06] <CSiD> I can write scripts, python,perl,java,some c & C++
[17:06] <CSiD> (Computer Science student)
[17:06] <Chesamo> CSiD: The biggest thing the project needs is a list of software for non-GNOME (ie. KDE, Xfce) environments. The script won't change a whole lot.
[17:06] <Chesamo> CSiD (me too :P )
[17:07] <CSiD> awesome :D
[17:07] <CSiD> I am surprised Rhythmbox isnt there thought
[17:08] <CSiD> it runs perfectly on Gnome with ipod compatibility e.t.c in Ubuntu 10.04
[17:09] <Chesamo> CSiD ....oh man, I totally thought I had that. I'll make an update shortly
[17:09] <CSiD> sorry, I might have missed it, I'll check again
[17:09] <CSiD> couldnt see it, sorry
[17:10] <Chesamo> CSiD Yeah, it's not there. I can probably replace Totem with it, since they're both based on the gstreamer framework
[17:10] <CSiD> I usually installed gstreamer, then I can add or remove anything else knowing gstreamer was there
[17:11] <CSiD> but you might want to add libdvdnav4 and libdvdread3 and libdvdcss
[17:11] <Chesamo> CSiD I believe they get installed as dependencies
[17:12] <CSiD> not from my experience, I have always had to install them from terminal and trigger libdvdcss installation due to being illegal in some countries... I would jsut echo a warning before offering installing them
[17:15] <CSiD> will the wireless and ethernet drivers be there?
[17:15] <Chesamo> CSiD Yes
[17:15] <CSiD> cool :D (had issues before with Fedora and OpenSuse for my ethernet
[17:18] <CSiD> for ipod touch 3rd gen what would I need t isntall? rhythmbox & gtkpod
[17:18] <CSiD> ?
[17:18] <Chesamo> CSiD: as far as I know, the 3rd gen iPod touch is not supported
[17:19] <CSiD> it was supported out of the box in full ubuntu 10.04
[17:19] <CSiD> mounted recognisable and sync through rhythmbox includign playing music directly from the ipod
[17:19] <paultag> CSiD, I have a gen1 iTouch 3.0 firmware, and it borks my lib
[17:19] <paultag> CSiD, what's your issue?
[17:19] <CSiD> 3.1.3
[17:19] <Chesamo> CSiD I've not gotten the 3.0 firmware working
[17:20] <Chesamo> er, 3.1.4? something like that
[17:20] <paultag> Chesamo, it should work out of the box
[17:20] <paultag> I can read my library off rb
[17:20] <Chesamo> 3.1.3
[17:20] <paultag> One sec
[17:20] <Chesamo> Not syncing though
[17:20] <CSiD> 3.1.3 is the newest I know of, I know 4 should be coming out soon to finally enable multiple processes
[17:20] <CSiD> does sync
[17:20] <CSiD> just drag and drop the files from anywhere onto hte ipod icon i nrhythmbox
[17:20] <paultag> I have 3.1.3
[17:20] <paultag> and it syncs
[17:21] <CSiD> I rememebr putting it in to charge and almost fell otu of my seat seein it work
[17:21] <CSiD> lol
 CSiD, I have a gen1 iTouch 3.0 firmware, *and it borks my lib* ?
 CSiD, I have a gen1 iTouch 3.0 firmware, and it borks my lib
[17:21] <paultag> CSiD, hahaha, me too. I remember when it was first working and I patched 9.04
[17:21] <Chesamo> Whoopps.  Good luck
[17:37] <CSiD> if I put the script on the instal lcd as "ubuntu-beginners-script.sh" it shouldnt affect the installation should it (would save me mounting)
[17:37] <paultag> CSiD, no, but how are you planning on doing that?
[17:37] <paultag> CSiD, you should not have a file called "xyz.iso" on the disk, that is a disk image that should be extracted onto the disk
[17:38] <CSiD> open the iso in archive manager, add the .sh i na folder, then burn the iso
[17:38] <CSiD> I know
[17:38] <CSiD> lol
[17:39] <CSiD> would the minimal include perl and python?
[17:39] <paultag> Ah
[17:39] <paultag> CSiD, I don't think so
[17:40] <paultag> CSiD, and anything you apt-get on the CD won't be extracted to the HD
[17:40] <CSiD> if I run it fro mthe HD
[17:40] <paultag> CSiD, then you should have perl and python, I think
[17:40] <CSiD> I could run it fro mhome directory, script loaded to ram, then it will use my cwd which is home to depict hte drive is the hd I think
[17:41] <paultag> CSiD, sudo chroot
[17:41] <CSiD> I am runnign through anything I should add to the script....
[17:41] <CSiD> the rhythmbox stuff,libdvdnav4, libdvdread3, dvdcss, netbeans, gcc
[17:41] <Chesamo> Well, CSiD, I'm rebuilding the script now
[17:42] <Chesamo> CSiD if you want to wait until I've finished with that... libdvdnav, libdvdread etc are covered by ubuntu-restricted-extras
[17:42] <CSiD> brb
[17:44] <CSiD> so ubuntu-restricted-extras and al I need for dvd's is to run the css script?
[17:44] <Chesamo> CSiD Yes, as far as I know. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats
[17:45] <Chesamo> CSiD But if you install VLC Media Player it'll be able to play DVDs out of the box... I think
[17:45] <CSiD> well al lI need now is to enable flash then go for supepr then instal lit all :D
[17:46] <Chesamo> CSiD ubuntu-restricted-extras installs Flash too
[17:46] <CSiD> perfect
[17:47] <CSiD> right I'm of to have supper then prepare hte iso, I'll let you all know how it goes once I have it up and running, cya's
[18:26] <Chesamo> Quick question about shell scripting. If I $sudo ./script.sh , then I won't need to sudo in the script, correct?
[18:26] <drubin> Chesamo: yes
[18:27] <Chesamo> thanks, drubin
[18:27]  * drubin goes to fix his netbeans
[18:52] <Chesamo> Question about aptitude/apt-get. Is it possible to install sun-java6-jre without the license prompt?
[18:52] <botot> hi, i'm trying to forward gui windows from a ubuntu machine to a windows machine running cygwin
[18:53] <botot> but i got the error saying : No Display specified
[18:53] <botot> and if i use -X in ssh
[18:53] <botot> I got: Gtk-WARNING **: cannot open display:
[18:53] <Chesamo> botot: what ssh client are you using?
[18:53] <botot> I installed the cygwin
[18:53] <botot> and I guess the openssh
[18:54] <botot> but i got the same thing when using putty
[18:54] <Chesamo> botot did you install X/Cygwin? http://x.cygwin.com/
[18:54] <botot> no...
[18:54] <botot> should i install it?
[18:55] <Chesamo> botot if you want to forward your X session, yes.
[18:55] <botot> so should I uninstall the current cygwin i have?
[18:56] <Chesamo> botot: Not sure, cygwin isn't something I usually play with. I'd imagine X/Cygwin installs its version of Cygwin.
[18:56] <botot> I see
[18:56] <botot> Thanks Chesamo! another question: do you recommend using other ssh client on windows?
[18:57] <Chesamo> botot If you're forwarding X? I'd stick with Xterm (which will be installed with X/Cygwin). I use PuTTY in my normal use, but like I said... I don't forward my X session since I can just use VBox and normally SSH in.
[18:58] <botot> sorry... but what does VBox do?
[18:59] <Chesamo> botot VBox = VirtualBox, a program that runs virtual computers. I run Ubuntu underneath Windows when I need to log into remote Ubuntu systems.
[18:59] <botot> I see..
[19:00] <botot> I'll look into that and see whether I can use it and just go without X
[19:00] <botot> really new to this and have little idea about the difference between all these options
[19:01] <Chesamo> botot Yeah, I just use VBx because it's the simplest solution. Not the most elegant, but the simplest.
[19:01] <botot> I see
[19:04] <botot> it seems like i intsalled the cygwin/X before
[19:04] <botot> i'll go through the installation again and see if I dropped something...
[19:58] <insanity99> hey guys, can anyone give me information on 'mono'? i need it to apply a mod on heroes of newerth. thanks
[19:59] <Chesamo> insanity99 Mono is a set of libraries like Microsoft.NET.
[20:00] <holstein> hmmm
[20:00] <holstein> !mono
[20:00] <ubot2> Factoid 'mono' not found
[20:00] <holstein> oh well
[20:01] <Chesamo> insanity99 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mono_(software)
[20:01] <holstein> Chesamo: !mono
[20:01] <insanity99> hmmm so is it legal?
[20:01] <holstein> ;)
[20:01] <Chesamo> insanity99: I.... don't see wny not <_<
[20:02] <Chesamo> holstein But that didn't work :(
[20:02] <holstein> :/
[20:02] <Chesamo> why**
[20:02] <insanity99> some stuff about microsoft patents
[20:03] <insanity99> think microsoft is pissed about it lol
[20:03] <insanity99> !mono
[20:03] <ubot2> Factoid 'mono' not found
[20:03] <Chesamo> insanity99: Mono is FOSS. Also Ubuntu comes with Mono installed by default. http://www.mono-project.com/DistroPackages/Ubuntu
[20:04] <insanity99> ok thanks guys
[20:05] <insanity99> so it can kinda work like wine yeah?
[20:06] <holstein> hmmm
[20:06] <holstein> you mean by running windows programs?
[20:06] <holstein> no
[20:06] <insanity99> i used it to run an .exe though
[20:07] <Chesamo> insanity99: No, mono is just a similar implementation. It also has a C# compiler, if you want to compile a program written in C#.
[20:07] <holstein> i think of it as an opensource .NET clone
[20:07] <Chesamo> insanity99... um, that's not how it works.
[20:07] <Chesamo> insanity99 Mono isn't a single program. It's a set of libraries.
[20:08] <insanity99> ok
[20:09] <insanity99> here is a link: http://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/showthread.php?t=92797 this has you use mono to launch a .exe file
[20:10] <Chesamo> insanity99: It compiles the C# program using the Mono libraries
[20:10] <insanity99> oh ok thanks again
[20:30] <Msnbc> When I boot I get a message saying i am missing modules and that it's dropping to a shell. It says the module is "cat / proc / modules; ls/dev" Followed by an alert "/dev/disk/by-uuid/8c789..." What do I do?
[20:42] <Chesamo> Msnbc: It sounds like your discs aren't being mounted properly. What's the entire line of the "/dev/disk/by-uuid/" line?
[20:46] <Msnbc> "dev/disk/by-uuid/8c789b3d-18b-470d-822b-3592fc7092g does not exist"
[20:47] <Chesamo> Msnbc: Have you changed drives since you've installed Ubuntu?
[20:47] <Msnbc> Chesamo: No
[20:48] <Chesamo> Msnbc: Hm... Well, Ubuntu believes this to be true. When you get to the Terminal, run sudo update-grub and reboot. See if that does the trick.
[20:52] <Msnbc> Chesamo: What should have happened? It gave me a list of errors - cannot open '/dev/sda' while attempting to get disk size
[20:54] <Chesamo> Msnbc, Yikes, not that. It seems like what it believes to be /dev/sda is no longer there.
[20:54] <Msnbc> Chesamo: What does that mean?
[20:55] <Chesamo> Msnbc: Either your drive died (unlikely, since you have the recovery shell) or something got changed internally. Did BIOS recently get changed? Did you move around cables?
[20:59] <Msnbc> Chesamo: I haven't done anything to my laptop in a long time. On  the software side I just upgraded from karma to lynx
[21:52] <obiwan_> hey guys
[21:56] <obiwan_> Ive got a problem... I attempted to install the lastest version of ubuntu on a portable hard drive, everything went fine until I restarted my laptop. It gives me this message "error: no such device: really long number. grub rescue". Even when I change the boot order back to my laptop hard drive it gives me this messsage and I have tried to boot off the ubuntu cd a bunch of times but that doesn't work either.
[21:58] <ZachK_> obiwan_: ok when you install to a portable drive you have to remove the main drive from the computer...my quess is that you did not correct?
[21:59] <obiwan_> yea
[21:59] <obiwan_> i did no
[21:59] <obiwan_> t
[22:00] <ZachK_> ok...yeah when you make an external drive bootable like a regular hard drive the internal one or main hard drive in the pc MUST be removed
[22:00] <ZachK_> otherwise it will cause booting issues...
[22:00] <ZachK_> kinda like sticking two brains in one person's head
[22:01] <obiwan_> ok
[22:02] <obiwan_> is there anyway to fix these booting issues?
[22:04] <ZachK_> Ah i know there is i just can't think of it...i actually have to go mow my lawn before it rains...(got my personal rain forest outside) but i wanted to get you before you gave up
[22:05] <ZachK_> obiwan_: or you can join #ubuntu
[22:05] <obiwan_> ok thanks for the lesson and the help
[23:52] <buzzard> My dear sweet 75 year old mother has hosed her Win laptop once again. While I recover it I would like to install an Ubuntu partition. Can I set it to automatically boot to the Guest account?
[23:54] <Phrea> if that guest account is the primary user, I think you can
[23:55] <buzzard> I would use my account to install and administer it, but have it boot into the guest account for her
[23:55] <Phrea> not very sure tho, wait for somebody with actual brains to answer your question
[23:55] <Phrea> I think it should work, with your account having no auto login
[23:55] <buzzard> :)  thanks for the  support, it seems like it should be possible
[23:56] <ZachK_> who wants to do what and why?
[23:56] <Phrea> but please, wait for somebody who knows for sure
[23:56] <Phrea> like him :D
[23:56] <ZachK_> lol
[23:56] <mininessie> how do i pleasure a girl
[23:57] <Phrea> find her price
[23:57] <ZachK_> !topic | mininessie
[23:57] <ubot2> mininessie: Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic
[23:57] <ZachK_> !ot | mininessie
[23:57] <ubot2> mininessie: #ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!
[23:58] <ZachK_> mininessie: i will say this though...pleasuring a girl and how depends upon your gender....
[23:58] <ZachK_> ok buzzard what's up
[23:59] <buzzard> ZachK: My mother has hosed her Win laptop once again. While I recover it I would like to install an Ubuntu partition. Can I set it to automatically boot to the Guest account?


[07:22] <NineTeen67Comet> Hello all .. any Wacom Touch & Pen users in here? I've got one; works great, just want to shut the touch part off so it'll stop thinking I'm using my touch and pen at the same time ..