[03:22] <HazRPG> anyone getting updates for KDE stuff when they're not running KDE on their desktop?
[03:22] <HazRPG> ubuntu 10.10
[08:04] <daubers> Morning
[08:07] <MooDoo> hello all
[08:13] <diplo> morning all
[08:21] <AlanBell> morning all
[08:21] <AlanBell> I just had my first github patch merged into the tweepy trunk
[08:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> wtf is tweepy?
[08:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> morning vtw
[08:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> s/vtw/btw
[08:33] <AlanBell> a python twitter API
[08:33] <AlanBell> I got cross with gwibber and the twitter web client so decided to take a more direct approach to tweeting
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> gwibber is pretty bad... It's a hog and seems to lock up frequently.
[08:34] <AlanBell> loving DoctorMo's cartoon http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Groklaw-PJ-Tribute-204801749
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> hotot isn't bad
[08:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:35] <AlanBell> Velma was always my favourite
[08:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> I was just reading about The Ceylon Project: http://blog.talawah.net/2011/04/gavin-king-unviels-red-hats-top-secret.html
[08:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> And I had a quick peek and vmwares new Open Source could thingy
[08:36] <AlanBell> s/and/at/ s/could/cloud/ ?
[08:37]  * AlanBell passes TheOpenSourcerer another espresso
[08:38]  * TheOpenSourcerer goes and gets some new fingers
[08:38] <TheOpenSourcerer> ... less fat ones.
[08:43] <AlanBell> looking at Ceylon I don't think it is very java++
[08:44] <AlanBell> it is like one person customising java to the way they want it personally
[08:44] <AlanBell> and it isn't as nice and cuddly as python
[08:51] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://netpoetic.com/2011/04/unicode/
[08:56] <bigcalm> Morning peeps
[09:01] <iulian> Morning.
[09:06] <dwatkins> moin moin
[09:22] <diplo> Anyone know of a way of listing users in a svn repo ?
[09:22] <diplo> svn-manager-users seems to show create / delete etc but not list
[09:47] <JamesTait> Tea and chocolate Hobnobs. What better way to bid you good morning?
[09:52] <BigRedS> JamesTait: Well, you could give me the tea and biscuits? :)
[09:53] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm, think I need some moar caffeine (and probly a rich tea or two - that's all we have in the tin).
[09:55] <popey> morning all
[09:55] <bigcalm> Hi popey et al
[09:56] <oimon> regarding mobile phones - should i avoid a reseller that does a cashback as part of the deal?
[09:56] <bigcalm> JamesTait: a sausage and egg bap would help me start my day.  :-P
[09:58] <oimon> my friend did one with cashback and the seller convenient "went bust" and he didn't get the cash
[09:58] <JamesTait> bigcalm: I'll arrange that for you. I'll also go the extra mile and eat it for you, just to save you the effort.
[10:02] <bigcalm> \o/
[10:07] <TheOpenSourcerer> Interesting comparison between EC2 and Rackspace cloud services: http://gasoftwareblog.com/home/2011/3/31/amazon-ec2-vs-rackspace-are-all-cloud-hosting-services-the-s.html
[10:10] <BigRedS> oimon: I've known a few people do those with some success. No number porting, though. And it it really is the cheapest possible setup. Support etc. is terrible
[10:10] <BigRedS> s/is/was/
[10:11] <oimon> BigRedS: this one is with phones4u
[10:11] <oimon> well, some other website they own , with better deals on :S
[10:12] <oimon> "a trading division of phones4u"
[10:13] <BigRedS> yeah, these were that sort of a thing. Just a child company spawned to do exactly that sort of thing. Still, if no-frills is fine and you're organised enough to send the right forms at the right time, it's all good
[10:14] <BigRedS> the lack of number porting would irritate the crap out of me, though
[10:14] <BigRedS> and I'm not organised....
[10:14] <BigRedS> TheOpenSourcerer: that reads a bit like a Rackspace ad. Though I'm well aware that that might just be Rackspace just being way better than Amazon.
[10:14] <oimon> the number porting can be done by the network provider
[10:15] <BigRedS> oimon: ah yeah, as long as they say they'll do it you're fine
[10:15] <TheOpenSourcerer> I was interested in that Rackspace will probably be running OpenStack (or something very close).
[10:15] <BigRedS> I'd hope so! It'd be a bit of a coup for $otherCloudPlatform if they're not :)
[10:17] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[10:17]  * dwatkins curses Samba's picky timekeeping and corrects the server clock
[10:19]  * popey wonders if there's a new nvidia binary driver in the works
[10:19] <popey> the one in ubuntu is beta isnt it?
[10:19] <popey> !info nvidia-current natty
[10:21] <popey> hmm, natty has 270.26 beta, current stable is 260.1944
[10:21]  * popey wonders if 260.1944 is packaged somewhere
[10:23] <Daviey> popey, shhh... don't tell everyone.
[10:23] <Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer, Rackspace expected to be using Openstack in production this quarter...
[10:23] <Daviey> Rackspace UK on the other hand, always seem to be a little out of touch with reality... so perhaps by 2030 for them. :)
[10:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol - thanks Daviey
[10:23] <popey> i want to try the non-beta driver. see if it's better
[10:23] <popey> but I dont want to install it from their site
[10:23] <popey> guess I need to ppa it
[10:25] <Daviey> popey, maverick has 260.19.06-0ubuntu1, so you could use that.... but don't expect X to work.
[10:25] <popey> oh of course
[10:25] <popey> damnit
[10:25] <popey> how well does unity run on intel?
[10:26] <Daviey> pass
[10:26] <popey> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile 945GM/GMS, 943/940GML Express Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03)
[10:26] <Daviey> intel is too much like free for my taste.
[10:26] <popey> specifically one of them
[10:26] <popey> heh
[10:26] <popey> well, nvidia is causing me monster headaches right now
[10:27] <popey> it seems incapable of reading EDID data correctly
[10:27] <JGJones> I'll check my other laptop - it's a Sony Vaio SZ71E - so comes with dual graphics (nvidia and intel) - but Unity runs well on both
[10:27] <Daviey> popey, i'd chat it over with Bryce.
[10:27] <popey> he's probably very busy
[10:27] <popey> i dont like bugging him
[10:28] <popey> might try passing the nvidia driver a custom edid file
[10:29] <Daviey> popey, 'meh'... i would be suprised if he minded.
[10:44] <gord> 945's *should* work with unity fine, but i haven't booted up my 945 in a long time, the power adapter died - which i took as a strong hint that i should buy a new toy instead
[10:51] <oimon> arggh i'm close close to switching to chrome ..stupid laggy firefox (
[10:51] <oimon> )
[10:52] <brobostigon> sudo apt-get install chromium-browser
[10:52] <oimon> chrome=chromium
[10:53] <oimon> there's something really ugly about the chromium UI though
[10:53] <brobostigon> chromium is fully OSS, chrome has some closed google stuff.
[10:57] <brobostigon> thry are both basiclly the same gui.
[10:58] <oimon> any way to get a menu bar on it ?
[10:59] <brobostigon> ithas a button next to the url bar to bring up the system menu's.
[11:01] <oimon> maybe i'm an old man, but i like menu bars :(
[11:01] <oimon> i have pixels going spare :)
[11:01] <brobostigon> oimon: maybe there is a plugin then.
[11:01] <davmor2> morning all
[11:02] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[11:02] <davmor2> czajkowski: ow's the back today?
[11:04] <popey> brobostigon: i thought chrome and chromium were built the same, just with google branding in chrome
[11:06] <brobostigon> popey: i understand it also has some google usage tracking and bug tracking, and also chrome has a partly closed pdf reader inside it aswell.
[11:06] <davmor2> popey: no chromium is the open source version of chrome which will mean it's either behind or ahead depending on who contributes :D
[11:13]  * gord facepalms
[11:13] <gord> why is there a "popup delay" in the alt-tab switcher plugin
[11:13] <gord> its set to 0.2 seconds, thats why there is lag =\
[11:14] <bigcalm> Incase you hit alt+tab by mistake?
[11:14] <gord> if you hit alt+tab by mistake your still gonna switch windows
[11:14] <bigcalm> Odd to have a delay then
[11:14] <brobostigon> and howon earth would you hit it by mistake?
[11:15] <oimon> oh dear, i just hit apps menu and expected to type ccsm...unity is getting to me!
[11:16]  * oimon gnome do's it instead
[11:17] <bigcalm> Can you set passwords on tarballs and how secure are they?
[11:17] <oimon> gord, it's still sluggish though, don't you feel?
[11:17] <gord> oimon, nope
[11:17] <gord> turn off mipmapping, that'll slow you down
[11:17] <gord> bigcalm, i doubt it, just encode the tarball with gpg
[11:17] <oimon> no the initial popup but traversing the open windows
[11:18] <bigcalm> Grumble
[11:18] <gord> oimon, you use firefox right? turn off acceleration in firefox, firefox does insane things that make opengl slow when you have it open - took me a while to find that. turn it off and your entire system is way snappier
[11:18] <oimon> gord, ah
[11:19] <oimon> in about:config?
[11:19] <bigcalm> This is for a client, I fear I might have to use a password protected zip file instead
[11:20] <gord> yup
[11:20] <gord> bigcalm, password protected zip files arent' very secure
[11:21] <bigcalm> gord: nope. Maybe I'll ask the client if they have somewhere for me to send the file rather than putting it on HTTP
[11:22] <gord> bigcalm, you can't email?
[11:22] <bigcalm> 19mb tarbar?
[11:22] <bigcalm> gord: rather not
[11:22] <bigcalm> It's for a site migration. Lot of sensitive data in it
[11:23] <davmor2> oimon: CCSM pulls up the config manager in dash and in apps lens
[11:24] <oimon> davmor2: i'm on lucid right now...just sayin' that the unity behaviour seems to be growing on me
[11:25] <davmor2> oimon: Oh yes it does very much so I'm hating this box right now it's on maverick I much prefer doing stuff on natty now it's just easier
[11:27] <oimon> ..so long as you know the app name. i always find that as a very rare user of an apple mac, it's quite hard to find what apps are installed on the machine
[11:29] <davmor2> oimon: that's where the app creators keywords come in, Ziestgiest searches on the name, description and keywords which is why CCSM works
[11:29] <brobostigon> zeitgeist*
[11:33] <JGJones> Hmm...a 7" android tablet for 90 quid?
[11:33] <gord> actually app searches aren't done with Zeitgeist
[11:33] <JGJones> http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/7-inch-tablet-pc-android/ - I wonder how bad that touchscreen is...
[11:33] <gord> unity-applications-place indexes your desktop files as best it can
[11:33] <gord> JGJones, it'll be bad
[11:33] <gord> really bad
[11:34] <JGJones> gord, yeah, however I wonder if with the webcam it can function as a "telephone" for me in house
[11:35] <oimon> better than a joggler though?
[11:35] <oimon> looks better than my eee pc
[11:37] <ali1234> if the specifications are true its quite a bit better than the usual cheap tablets
[11:38] <popey> wonder how long that battery lasts
[11:38] <popey> 3600mAh
[11:39] <MartijnVdS> ~2 minutes
[11:39] <oimon> i wonder if we'll have the same windows tax problems trying to buy tablets when MS produce win8 for ARM
[11:39] <ali1234> probably about 8 hours
[11:40] <bigcalm> If you use the same gmail account on more than one android device, do you get your apps for each device or only the one you originally bought it on?
[11:40] <gord> how are microsoft handling the arm transition anyway? i mean, all the applications use x86
[11:41] <ali1234> gord: they will just make sure that windows 8 only supports .net
[11:41] <oimon> for 3rd party devs or themselves? they demonstrated "ie10"  on win8/ARM the other day
[11:41] <gord> i'm sure they can port their own apps, thats obvious
[11:42]  * bigcalm ponders blowing 90 quid for a giggle
[11:43] <oimon> bigcalm: i would if i was a single man
[11:43] <oimon> it actually looks OK on paper
[11:43] <bigcalm> +7 quid p&p
[11:44] <oimon> imagine how many cheap tablets there will be when windows comes along too
[11:44] <ali1234> almost none
[11:44] <ali1234> because the cost of windows will double the price
[11:45]  * bigcalm tickles popey
[11:45] <gord> cheep tablets might kill the market - apple will come out with their next hairbrained device and claim tablets useless by then though
[11:45] <oimon> so long as android etc are around then hopefully MS won't get the strnagehold on the OEms and the compulsory win tax
[11:45] <popey> bigcalm: did you see my reply from vm yesterday?
[11:46] <bigcalm> No?
[11:46] <dogmatic69> oimon: it will be a long time before there is any thing as slick as iPad and at a reasonable price
[11:46] <popey> phone 150, pay one off fee of 30 quid
[11:46] <popey> job done
[11:46] <oimon> dogmatic69: long time? maybe 1 year
[11:46] <bigcalm> So it is available to those on mates rates
[11:46] <popey> yes
[11:46] <bigcalm> Hazar
[11:46] <popey> monthy fee is same
[11:46] <bigcalm> So, are you going to? :)
[11:46] <popey> maybe
[11:46] <popey> :)
[11:46] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:46] <bigcalm> Thanks for checking for me
[11:46] <dogmatic69> oimon: in one year iPad 3 is out
[11:46] <popey> np
[11:47] <gord> i wonder if apple are losing money on ipads, i mean the competition seems to be selling for a lot more
[11:48] <AlanBell> they might be, they will get the money back through the appstore
[11:48] <davmor2> gord: where is that alt-tab setting
[11:48] <dogmatic69> gord: they sold 7mil in the last month (iirc) and get some serious bulk discounts i should think
[11:48] <ali1234> i doubt they are losing money.... the margin might be 0 though
[11:48] <gord> davmor2, in the plugin settings?
[11:49] <oimon> maybe the profits are to be made in the apple tax on the app store
[11:49] <ali1234> point of selling ipad with 0 margin would be to get apple users used to the idea of buying from the app store for more powerful software, not just 1 time joke apps
[11:49] <gord> well losing money on ipads might be a valid business plan for apple, making money on app sales could be far more lucrative and getting the hardware in peoples hands makes sense
[11:49] <gord> video game console manufacturers have been doing that for year
[11:49] <gord> years*
[11:50] <dogmatic69> ali1234: yes, apple is the 2nd biggest company in the world because they operate on a 0% margin
[11:50] <ali1234> it isn't viable for them to make back the loss in their appstore
[11:50] <ali1234> not yet anyway
[11:50] <davmor2> gord: that is faster :)
[11:50] <ali1234> because people aren't yet OK with the idea of buying something like photoshop for £300 from the appstore
[11:50] <oimon> i've never bought an android app in 12 months...but am considering swiftkey after swype has taken a massive downturn in usability
[11:51] <gord> you just live off free applications? bleeeeh at that
[11:52] <popey> i have lost count of the number of iphone/ipad apps I've bought
[11:52] <popey> on android I bought exactly one app
[11:52] <ali1234> there is absolutely nothing of interest to me in any appstore i have ever looked in
[11:52] <theduffknight> pft
[11:52] <ali1234> i would certainly never pay money for software
[11:52] <theduffknight> just steal?
[11:52] <oimon> the best apps are google ones anyway
[11:53] <gord> i'v lost count of the number of android apps i've bought
[11:53] <AlanBell> I bought no apps on Android
[11:53] <oimon> wow
[11:53] <dogmatic69> ive not bought a app on android either
[11:53] <theduffknight> what do you use it for then?
[11:54] <dogmatic69> had it since 1.5
[11:54] <AlanBell> I don't know of any apps that I would want that are not free
[11:54] <brobostigon> i bought one, 8pen, and it was kinda a good decision,but also not.
[11:54] <oimon> AlanBell: me too
[11:54] <AlanBell> google maps is free, midpSSH is free
[11:55] <brobostigon> connectbot is free and OSS.
[11:55] <gord> most apps are like $0.99 - i find it hard not to buy them
[11:55] <AlanBell> email and browser are free, can't think of anything else I would want
[11:55] <brobostigon> k9-mail, :)
[11:55] <theduffknight> app on iphone/ipad are worth paying for
[11:55] <AlanBell> what do they do?
[11:56] <AlanBell> I would be tempted by garageband if I had an iPad
[11:56] <BigRedS> In general, the model is that apps on i* are pay-for and on android are ad-supported
[11:56]  * popey looks at all his paid apps
[11:56] <dogmatic69> AlanBell: i got an iPad and the quality of apps is *much* better
[11:56] <bigcalm> Would people PLEASE stop dangling geeky treats infront of his nose
[11:56] <BigRedS> you're very much expected to make *good* apps for iphone, but cool ones for android
[11:57] <BigRedS> of course, you do get both, but android seems a lot more experimental
[11:57] <dogmatic69> cool ones that crash?
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> I rarely buy apps on android
[11:57] <MartijnVdS> most apps look ugly
[11:57] <ali1234> where are these cool experimental apps? all i see is shovelware
[11:57] <BigRedS> dogmatic69: yeah, nice ideas, if only they actually worked :)
[11:57] <BigRedS> I don't think I've any app on android that actually does what I want, they all sort-of do
[11:57] <AlanBell> I had a bit of a play with the android SDK and made a hello world app, but I couldn't think of anything I really wanted to write
[11:57] <gord> android apps don't crash for me
[11:57] <BigRedS> I use four calendaring apps...
[11:58] <dogmatic69> BigRedS: agreed, cool for 2 min. after a few crashes... meh
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> I just use the built-in calender
[11:58] <gord> i prolly buy a new live wallpaper every week
[11:58] <MartijnVdS> but I use google apps for everything anyway
[11:58]  * brobostigon has had no real crashes to speak on, other than with basic apps he has made.
[11:59] <dogmatic69> like i got a weather widget for android the other day. in 2 hours it got me band from 3G on O2
[11:59] <bigcalm> popey: I guess I'll be able to test my work in a tablet kind of way now
[11:59] <popey> most of my paid apps are games
[11:59] <AlanBell> I don't want games, or the kids will nick my phone
[12:00] <gord> mobile phone games are baaad :(
[12:00] <brobostigon> my favorite is still k9, :)
[12:00] <popey> i thought we were talking tablets ?
[12:00] <popey> :)
[12:00] <theduffknight> get them an ipod touch
[12:00] <dogmatic69> gord: not on iPhone :D
[12:00] <popey> Sam loves a few games on ipad, cut the rope especially, and some motor-x one where he can knock the guy off his bike
[12:00] <AlanBell> they have a DS and a Wii and a playstation and a computer running Ubuntu
[12:00] <gord> dogmatic69, yeah, they are
[12:01] <gord> mobile phone games are basically, what you would call in any other game, an annoying minigame
[12:01] <theduffknight> dont tell them about the games on your phone then :)
[12:02] <popey> haha
[12:03] <oimon> MartijnVdS: jorte is a great calendar app on android
[12:03] <oimon> free too
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> oimon: I don't care, I use the built-in one and it's fine :)
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> built-in apps > most of the stuff on market
[12:03] <oimon> jorte is my favourite app actually
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> well the mobile banking app I have is useful
[12:04] <oimon> anyone use prey?
[12:05] <theduffknight> no? what is it?
[12:05] <oimon> it's a app that helps you if your phone is stolen/lost etc
[12:05] <theduffknight> ok
[12:05] <oimon> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.prey
[12:05] <dogmatic69> where is my ipad :)
[12:05] <theduffknight> okk
[12:06] <dogmatic69> http://preyproject.com/
[12:06] <theduffknight> yeah like find my iphone
[12:06] <theduffknight> ?
[12:06] <oimon> prey works on linux too i think
[12:07] <oimon> popey: when's tomboy 1.6.x package coming :P
[12:07] <popey> thanks for the reminder
[12:08] <popey> i use prey on all my devices
[12:08] <bigcalm> popey: called 150. Tried to upgrade and they said I'd lose all of my existing discounts
[12:08] <bigcalm> Sod that
[12:08] <gord> kinda sucks that you have to register
[12:09] <gord> you should just be able to install after you lost the device
[12:10] <oimon> i wonder how many people keep the default GO PREY switchon txt
[12:13] <gord> i just looked up the bank holidays for this year- they are awesome - two four day weekends in a row
[12:14] <BigRedS> yeah
[12:14] <BigRedS> it's the take-two-days-holiday-get-11-days-off thing
[12:15] <seeker> gord: You only just noticed?!
[12:15] <BigRedS> er, three days holiday I think
[12:15] <seeker> Three days
[12:15] <BigRedS> yeah, makes sense :) tue, wed, thu
[12:15] <seeker> Tues-thurs inclusive
[12:15] <gord> i'm away with work on one of the weekends though, so i'll have to push that to another day
[12:15] <bigcalm> This is where working in a 2 man company falls down. Can't take those 3 days off because other bloke already is
[12:20] <oimon> the problem with prey, is that most laptops will be reinstalled rather than cracking my password
[12:21] <oimon> so unless i set no login password, i won't get much info
[12:29] <oimon> ugh banshee 2.0 suffering terrible lag on my pc
[12:38] <popey> 12:08:57 < gord> kinda sucks that you have to register
[12:38] <popey> you dont
[12:46] <popey> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/9456798.stm
[12:46] <popey> ooer
[12:49] <oimon> can't use what word?
[12:49] <oimon> looked like the guy was gonna cry
[12:49] <AlanBell> "security" I think
[12:50] <brobostigon> ouch,
[12:51] <oimon> wasn't exactly getting grilled, i think they were just natural questions to ask
[13:02] <revo_> hello, i am confused, i have wireless and ethernet i would like to use both, but neither are listed in the interfaces file
[13:03] <revo_> i used the networkmanager applet 0.8 to set the ip of the eth0 but it just wont take
[13:06] <popey> revo_: neither will be listed in interfaces
[13:06] <popey> if they were listed there, then NM would ignore them
[13:08] <revo_> oh
[13:12] <revo_> found it
[13:12] <revo_> dodgy ethernet cable, now filed under B for bin
[13:13] <revo_> thanks for your time popey
[13:13] <popey> np
[13:13] <popey> :)
[13:13] <revo_> ><
[13:13] <revo_> byeseez
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> http://twitter.com/#!/feral_pigeon
[13:16] <TheOpenSourcerer> Any mod_proxy dudes 'in da 'ouse'?
[13:16] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: !ask :)
[13:17] <popey> boyyyyyy
[13:18] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wazzup with this then? Can't get webdav proxying to 8070: http://paste.ubuntu.com/593976/
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: trailing slash?
[13:18] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it might add a trailing slash too many because your ProxyPass ends with one
[13:19] <directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, dav is the devil
[13:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> *Everything* on Google has a trailing slash
[13:19] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: We found it to be a problem here -- we'd get double slashes
[13:19] <TheOpenSourcerer> libertusvm2.lan:443 81.XX.XX.1 - - [14/Apr/2011:13:00:17 +0100] "OPTIONS /webdav/libertus_03/calendars/users/alan.lord/c/Meetings HTTP/1.1" 200 18653 "-" "gvfs/1.6.4"
[13:20] <TheOpenSourcerer> From the apache log. Looks like it's right to me.
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> It's a HTTP/200 as well
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> so you got an OK answer..
[13:20] <MartijnVdS> What's the problem then?
[13:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> It doesn't work :-)
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> Do you get a message?
[13:21] <MartijnVdS> anything?
[13:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> Lighting doesn't do/show anything. Trying to connect to the webdav share with the "Connect to server... " thingy on Ubuntu just timesout after about 3 or 4 mins.
[13:22] <AlanBell> use a browser
[13:22] <TheOpenSourcerer> nada
[13:23] <MartijnVdS> browser doesn't work either?
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Loads of errors...
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> which errors?
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Like this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/593981/
[13:24] <MartijnVdS> looks like your server is sending errors :)
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> Yes. Thanks.
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> It's complaining that "GET /web" isn't an integer.. which is quite correct :)
[13:25] <MartijnVdS> I'd check openerp source for solutions here
[13:26] <TheOpenSourcerer> But it works without a proxy.
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[13:26] <AlanBell> funky stuff there, chopping it up into 8 character chuncks
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> hmmmmmmm
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> I'm out of ideas, sorry
[13:27] <MartijnVdS> other than "read the docs again"
[13:29] <TheOpenSourcerer> I wonder if it is to do with "chunks" AlanBell? http://www.atnan.com/2008/8/8/transfer-encoding-chunked-chunky-http
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that might be the issue.. but Python's built-in http server supports chunked encoding doesn't it?
[13:30] <MartijnVdS> you can disable chunked encoding in the proxy settings
[13:31] <AlanBell> what makes you think it is working on port 8070?
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> It did before.
[13:31] <TheOpenSourcerer> It won't now as it only listens to <IP_ADDRESS>
[13:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Am trying to stick everything over ssl
[13:32] <AlanBell> yeah, I did wget http://localhost:8070/webdav
[13:32] <AlanBell> got loads of the same kind of error
[13:32] <directhex> wget isn't too useful for dav
[13:33] <directhex> since you encode your requests in the http request
[13:33] <directhex> e.g. not just GET or POST, but GETOPTIONS and stuff like that
[13:33] <directhex> with auth payloads built in
[13:33] <directhex> it's a mess :/
[13:33] <AlanBell> true, but it should give something more sensible than a python error
[13:34] <AlanBell> webdav should be browseable with a browser I think
[13:40] <scoundrel50a> hi, can somebody help with my wireless, its stopped working, I can connect via ethernet, but the wireless just doesnt work.
[13:40] <boffu> how to recover a file from the /tmp folder once i have switched off computer?
[13:41] <directhex> boffu, oh, that's an interesting question... boot from a livecd i guess. /tmp is cleared on boot iirc
[13:41] <directhex> or take out the disk, put in another pc, and mount the partition
[13:42] <boffu> thanks directhex
[13:42] <boffu> if that's the only way, i'm afraid re-creating the file is simpler ...
[13:42] <scoundrel50a> anybody know how to get the wireless back up and running?
[13:43] <directhex> boffu, /tmp really is very very temporary
[13:43] <scoundrel50a> I dont have a button, so its automatic, somehow, the wireless has stopped working, it works in windows, but not ubuntu
[13:43] <boffu> scoundrel50a, you'd need to give details about what operating system version you're using, and what changes occurred before it stopped working
[13:44] <boffu> directhex, thanks ...
[13:45] <scoundrel50a> I installed Ubuntu 10.10 on an Aspire computer, and just booten up, and the wireless wont work
[13:45] <directhex> boffu, some distros don't clear /tmp - e.g. re hats
[13:45] <directhex> scoundrel50a, can you plug it in temporarily?
[13:45] <directhex> scoundrel50a, if you can get it online via a cable, look in system/administration/additional drivers
[13:45] <scoundrel50a> I am using the ethernet cable now,
[13:46] <virusuy> moring all, greetings form Uruguay !
[13:46] <scoundrel50a> directhex: nothing in there
[13:46] <virusuy> s/moring/morning/
[13:47] <scoundrel50a> is there anyway via the terminal it can be checked?
[13:48] <oimon> i have just discovered that alt-tab switcher allows choosing the window with the mouse from the alt-tab list. useful if you have > 50 windows open
[13:49] <ging> doesnt for me, is this on the new unity thing?
[13:49] <oimon> Ging, no, it's a (default) option in ccsm
[13:50] <oimon> static application siwtcher -> behaviour -> allow mouse selection
[13:50] <ging> i dont think i have compiz
[13:50] <scoundrel50a> directhex: opened that, and it said no proprietary drivers are in use on this system
[13:50] <ging> things like that confuse my tiny mind
[13:50] <oimon> my computer doesn't feel right unless i have wobbly windows
[13:51] <ging> windows should never wobble, it's just not right
[13:55] <oimon> scoundrel50a: which version of ubuntu is it?
[13:55] <oimon> 10.10 i just noticed...
[13:56] <oimon> do you know which wireless card it is?
[13:57] <oimon> running lspci in a terminal should give you a clue
[13:58] <scoundrel50a> 10.10
[13:59] <scoundrel50a> oimon, I will post to pastebin what it says, one sec
[14:00] <oimon> additionally, the exact laptop model would help too, since there are howto's for many acer aspire machines
[14:02] <scoundrel50a> http://paste.ubuntu.com/593994/ and its an Aspire 5736Z
[14:05] <scoundrel50a> oimon: would there be a way via the terminal to work out what is wrong?
[14:07] <gord> nooo, engineer guy was doing something in the phone cable cabinet down the street on my way back from lunch, now my internet speeds are 50kb slower :(
[14:08] <scoundrel50a> is there nobody here that can help?
[14:09] <oimon> scoundrel50a: try..
[14:10] <oimon> sudo apt-get install lshw; sudo lshw -C network
[14:11] <oimon> this is a useful page for checking wifi: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessTroubleShootingGuide
[14:13] <oimon> scoundrel50a: as a stab in the dark you could try installing the package linux-backports-modules-wireless-maverick-generic, since i've read that problems with your wireless device were solved in lucid during that
[14:14] <scoundrel50a> I tried that, and got this, dont know what it means though, http://paste.ubuntu.com/594002/
[14:14] <scoundrel50a> oimon, I'll try with the backports see if that does anything
[14:14] <scoundrel50a> where do I get them from?
[14:20] <gord> someone should sell little self powered monitors that you can just hook up to a vga port when your server is being stupid and you need to see whats going on
[14:20] <scoundrel50a> found the backports
[14:24] <Azelphur> gord you can get usb ones o.O
[14:24] <Azelphur> although probably not PnP yet
[14:26] <dwatkins> I'd like a VGA input on a netbook
[14:29] <dwatkins> there's always serial, of course
[14:30] <dwatkins> there are VGA to USB adapters, but they're rather expensive, it appears.
[14:30] <dwatkins> I imagine it's cheaper to buy aserial multiplexer or a vga to ethernet concentrator
[14:32] <gord> you could prolly just take apart a small old lcd monitor and put it in a new case
[14:34] <dwatkins> battery-powered 15" monitor onna cart?
[14:36] <BigRedS> loads of old LCD panels are 12V, so a homebuild should be doable
[14:40] <dwatkins> Does anyone know what wayjump.com is for? I found a shortened URL that links to "track_index.php" with a reference which I assume means my IP address was logged in someone's account, but just wondering if it's worse than that.
[14:53] <dwatkins> gord: or composite-in to a cheap portable display
[14:54] <gord> dwatkins, i wasn't aware you can just plug vga into composite and it just work
[14:55] <dwatkins> gord: you can't as far as I know, but adapters are cheaper than a VGA to USB adapter appears to be
[15:11] <dogmatic69> anyone know of some worth while security on *nix courses to attend ?
[15:17] <oimon> lol, my sister visited her doctor in denmark who didn't know the answer to a question so he tried googling it
[15:17] <seeker> Well, why wouldn't he
[15:19] <oimon> seeker: doctor i've stopped taking this drug and i'm getting side effects, what should I do? hang on let me google it, maybe yahoo answers has some anecdotal evidence
[15:19] <seeker> There are some decent resources on the web
[15:19] <dogmatic69> lol
[15:20] <oimon> dogmatic69:  i like SANS but i've never done their courses,  http://www.sans.org/security-training/courses.php
[15:20] <dogmatic69> ... hmmm, wikipedia says you will be fine
[15:20] <seeker> The difference between your sister and the doctor googling it is that the doctor can filter out the stuff that hypochondriacs gravitate towards
[15:21] <oimon> seeker, i would rather he have some trusted online medical journal resource
[15:21] <Pendulum> I figured out what my largest health problem was about 3.5 years before I got a diagnosis thanks to the internet (but not by googling symptoms, by meeting people who had the condition and thinking 'that sounds like me')
[15:22] <seeker> oimon: There are resources like http://bnf.org/bnf/bnf/current/
[15:23] <popey> is she certain he used google?
[15:23] <oimon> looks like i might be able to access that, with my athens login
[15:23] <popey> and not a google-powered local intranet search?
[15:24] <seeker> oimon: You do realise that there are actually professional / reliable resources on the Internet, not just yahoo answers and wikipedia?
[15:25] <aquarius> Any of you lot in/near Birmingham, btw?
[15:25] <oimon> seeker - yes although behind a paywall usually
[15:25] <dogmatic69> oimon: that looks like a once a year conference type thing
[15:25] <oimon> it's possible that it was a customised google intranet search
[15:26] <seeker> http://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/medicine/15074/SPC/
[15:26] <seeker> oimon: That isn't behind a paywall, and probably contains the information he would have been looking
[15:26] <seeker> For
[15:28] <oimon> btw his advice was "i don't know, just take it easy". rather adds weight to the suggestion of an indiscriminate google search, rather than a directed search
[15:29] <seeker> Not really
[15:30] <seeker> Just means that the information wasn't "if you get this symptom then panic"
[15:46] <oimon> can anyone using firefox or chromium see this page ok? http://www.gassaferegister.co.uk/search.aspx?terms=
[15:47] <oimon> my browsers show white boxes for home/about/news etc, unless you hover over
[15:47] <Azelphur> the main menu links are broken
[15:47] <Azelphur> in chrome.
[15:47] <oimon> it makes the site pretty unusable
[15:47] <Azelphur> indeed
[15:48] <nucc1> oimon, http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/mzaliorm/ThreadingSearchMozillaFirefox_005.png
[15:48] <nucc1> FF4
[15:48] <oimon> nucc1: yep, same ..
[15:48] <oimon> interested to see if it works on windows ff/chrome
[15:50] <BigRedS> oimon: works for me in ff3.6
[15:50] <oimon> windows?
[15:50] <BigRedS> oh, not on windows, though
[15:50] <oimon> oh
[15:53] <BigRedS> oimon: apparently "All OK on Firefox 3.6."
[15:54] <BigRedS> from a microsoftie
[15:54] <oimon> thanks :)
[15:57] <oimon> sent them an email
[15:57] <oimon> it's hard enough getting a gas man as it is
[16:03] <BigRedS> anyone know of an snmp-capable coffee machine?
[16:07] <oimon> BigRedS: i was discussing that the other day
[16:07] <BigRedS> I just want an easy way to know if there's coffee in the pot. A less manual version of the trojan camera :)
[16:07] <oimon> you could plug a usb moisture probe into a linksys nslu2
[16:07] <daubers> BigRedS: http://www.jabberdoc.org/ProgrammingJabber <- Author made a jabber enabled cofffee machine
[16:10]  * kazade wants a Jabber enabled coffee machine :(
[16:13] <oimon> hmm http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/android-wireless-keyboard-and-trackpad/
[16:15] <BigRedS> oimon: I'm trying to find the 'android' bit of that
[16:15] <AnonymousGeezer> popey: you should have a transcript for the Chris Gutteridge interview in your inbox, fwiw
[16:15] <popey> o_O
[16:16] <BigRedS> ahhh, it's for an tv thingy that runs android
[16:16] <oimon> BigRedS: i think it is an accesory to their android powered tv box
[16:16] <oimon> yep
[16:16] <oimon> i like the trackpad option though
[16:17]  * popey wonders which inbox AnonymousGeezer :)
[16:17] <AnonymousGeezer> popey . net account
[16:18] <daubers> \o/ inbox zero achieved, will it stay that way before I go away for a week is the question
[16:19] <popey> AnonymousGeezer: i dont have a .net account
[16:19] <AnonymousGeezer> com, sorry
[16:19] <popey> AnonymousGeezer: alan at popey.com
[16:19] <AnonymousGeezer> that's the one :)
[16:19] <popey> nothing yet...
[16:20] <dogmatic69> daubers: just remove the port on your firewall ;)
[16:22] <oimon> my definition of inbox zero is 0 unread mails
[16:23] <oimon> that might not be the widely accepted interpreation though :P
[16:26] <oimon> i've just noticed some new scrollbars in natty!
[16:46] <kaushal> Hi
[16:47] <kaushal> I have around 100 hosts running sun java6 u20, is there a easy way to upgrade it to u24 ?
[16:47] <kaushal> pssh ?
[17:01] <hcfd> kaushal, seems a plausible solution.
[17:01] <ubuntu_> hi there i have problem about ubuntu startup
[17:02] <hcfd> ubuntu_: are you using Startup-Manager by any chance?
[17:02] <ubuntu_> i deleted something (about user input screen) at synaptic
[17:02] <ubuntu_> now what can i do for work it again
[17:03] <ubuntu_> i didnt understand hcfd
[17:03] <hcfd> Boot to runlevel 3 instead
[17:03] <ubuntu_> how can i do it
[17:04] <hcfd> Also, you may have deleted Upstart
[17:04] <hcfd> Try finding and installing that again
[17:04] <hcfd> Google is your friend
[17:04] <ubuntu_> if i can join terminal i can do it
[17:05] <ubuntu_> could you help about that how can i join terminal
[17:07] <hcfd> ubuntu_, http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-201130.html
[17:08] <hcfd> My machine boots to console. I edited grub's menu.lst, indirectly, via /etc/grub.d/40_custom
[17:08] <hcfd> Google is your friend.
[17:09] <ubuntu_> hcfd thanks for your support im looking if i have any problem i will make you disturb :)
[17:24] <ubuntu_> hcfd i looked around about runlevel 3. in rc3.d directory nothing about gdm and in boot/grub/menu.lst empty
[17:25] <ubuntu_> so i didnt do it could you help about that
[17:26] <bigcalm> AlanBell: bit of cheak your last tweet :P
[17:26] <bigcalm> cheek
[17:26] <popey> optimistic
[17:26] <bigcalm> Sod, I replied to the wrong person
[17:27] <AlanBell> well only 30 tickets left, wouldn't want him to miss out
[17:27] <bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: my tweet to AlanBell was ment for you
[17:27] <AlanBell> it was a bit random
[17:27] <bigcalm> I fair at the internets
[17:27] <bigcalm> I fail
[17:27] <bigcalm> Damn it
[17:27]  * bigcalm goes for a cry
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> We can see that.
[17:27] <MartijnVdS> :P
[17:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks bigcalm
[17:28] <TheOpenSourcerer> Now go and have a lie down
[17:29] <HazRPG> \o
[17:30] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: seeing that we can?
[17:30] <MartijnVdS> HazRPG: We can see that bigcalm fails ;)
[17:30] <HazRPG> MartijnVdS: ah ha! I knew it!
[17:30] <bigcalm> No need to rub it in
[17:30] <TheOpenSourcerer> Funny if not so sad... http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110413/18085213885/new-zealand-politican-tweets-how-shes-violating-copyright-law-night-before-supporting-three-strikes-copyright-law.shtml
[17:30] <HazRPG> bigcalm: *hugs*
[17:31] <MartijnVdS> bigcalm: no problem, we all fail sometimes :)
[17:31] <bigcalm> :P
[17:31] <ubuntu_> how can i run my ubuntu in text mode_
[17:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> ubuntu_: Just install the server
[17:32] <HazRPG> ubuntu_: remove ubuntu-desktop ?
[17:33] <ubuntu_> i removed gnome and i cant boot up my pc
[17:34] <ubuntu_> its always stay at black screen when i select normal ubuntu or rescue mode
[17:34] <ubuntu_> i thinked i need text mode and install gnome again.. maybe im wrong im newbie
[17:34] <ubuntu_> i need your experiments about that
[17:35] <HazRPG> how did you do that?
[17:35] <ubuntu_> in synaptic manager i deleted gdm (complete remove)
[17:35] <HazRPG> why?
[17:36] <ubuntu_> i was upgrade 10.10 to 11.04
[17:36] <ubuntu_> then it come with unity and i deleted it and tried to install gnome
[17:37] <ubuntu_> at this point i did something wrong
[17:37] <HazRPG> hmm, unity is built on gnome dude
[17:37] <HazRPG> for now at least
[17:38] <mrmcan> im at learning level
[17:38] <mrmcan> so i failed. but i must get it work
[17:38] <HazRPG> are you in a liveCD now?
[17:38] <mrmcan> yes im in live cd now
[17:38] <HazRPG> which one?
[17:39] <mrmcan> ubuntu 10.04
[17:39] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Mrs TheOpenSourcerer will be a bit late home and she says I can nip out to the pub for a quick one :-) TTFN
[17:39] <HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: laters dude
[17:41] <mrmcan> HazRPG have you any suggestion
[17:42] <HazRPG> mrmcan: probably best to boot into a liveCD of 11.04 and see if you can do another upgrade from there... if you can, try and reinstall it without formatting - but I'm not 100% sure of that
[17:43] <HazRPG> maybe someone else can give you some better advice though
[17:44] <mrmcan> ehmmm okey thanks for your support. if you know how can i join text mode im listening
[18:11] <CaMason> hi guys. Trying to compile php 5.2.17 on 11.04b. I'm getting an error saying libjpeg.(a|so) not found. I've installed libjpeg-dev, and the lib exists under /usr/local/x86_64-linux-gnu/   - should there be a symlink in /usr/lib ?
[18:15] <CaMason> oh libjpeg62-dev is installed instead of libjpeg8-dev
[18:16] <CaMason> I do have a similar problem with libpng though
[18:21] <DJones> Evening all
[18:22] <zleap> HELLO
[18:22] <zleap> opps srry, had caps on
[18:32] <CaMason> is there a reason why natty is using '/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpng.so' whereas maverick is '/usr/lib/libpng.so' ?
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: no idea
[18:34] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: but gcc should automatically work?
[18:35] <CaMason> I'm tripping up with ./configure for php 5.2.17. The configure script will never look in that x86_64-linux-gnu folder
[18:37] <CaMason> my knowledge of this is limited, so I'm trying to figure whether 11.04 should be adding symlinks to /usr/lib, or whether php needs to update the configure script
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: 11.04 comes with PHP 5.3.5, why would you need 5.2?
[18:39] <CaMason> custom requirement for maintenance of old product
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> You could check the source for the package (apt-get source php5)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> See how it calls configure (in debian/rules)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> Maybe there is/are some some special command line args?
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> Do you have all build dependencies? (apt-get build-dep php5)
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Isn't there an "old php versions" PPA? Maybe you could try that if it exists?
[18:42] <CaMason> oh yes, there are. But the test for the dir is `test -f $_PHP_PNG_DIR/$PHP_LIBDIR/libpng.so`, so it can never look into the correct folder
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: did you check the source + patches from the Ubuntu repo? :)
[18:43] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: it might contain useful bits
[18:43] <CaMason> I must confess that I've never done such a thing
[18:44] <CaMason> but I doubt natty has any 5.2 sources anyway
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: no, I mean check the 5.3 sources
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: see how the 5.3 package-source calls the configure script
[18:45] <CaMason> makes sense.
[18:45] <MartijnVdS> and see if the package patches it beforehand
[18:46] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: it does lots of --with-png-dir=shared,/usr (etc.
[18:47] <CaMason> just reading up how to do this
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: apt-get source php5
[18:47] <CaMason> yup got it
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: cd php5-whatever-version-was-extracted
[18:47] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: then check debian/rules for the "./configure" line
[18:47] <CaMason> I see
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> you might not need all sub-modules
[18:58] <CaMason> no luck :/
[19:00] <CaMason> others are just suggesting a symlink
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> it expects an in-tree copy of libpng, I guess?
[19:01] <CaMason> it wants $PNG_DIR/$LIB_DIR/libpng.so, where PNG_DIR is --with-png-dir and LIB_DIR is --with-lib-dir
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> no
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> at least.. it's smarter than that
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> that's why the source package does:
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> --with-png-dir=shared,/usr
[19:02] <MartijnVdS> the "shared" bit is the magic
[19:02] <CaMason> what does that do?
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> it tells it to use the shared-library version instead of the in-tree version
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> apt-get install libpng-dev first
[19:03] <MartijnVdS> but then it should work
[19:03] <CaMason> I did apt-get install libpng12-dev
[19:03] <CaMason> http://packages.ubuntu.com/da/natty/amd64/libpng12-dev/filelist
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> yeah I know
[19:04] <MartijnVdS> and the location is good (will be found by gcc)
[19:06] <CaMason> so how could this ever work? http://pastebin.com/9rnC8iaM
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: where do you see that?
[19:07] <CaMason> in php 5.2.17 configure (and I also beleive in 5.3)
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: let me read the source
[19:09] <MartijnVdS> [brb] :)
[19:09] <CaMason> thanks for the help
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> checking for the location of libpng... shared,/usr
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> that works... configure doesn't fail for me
[19:16] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: which error do you get?
[19:17] <CaMason> this is natty and 5.2.17?
[19:17]  * CaMason configures
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> natty and 5.3, but I can get 5.2.17
[19:17] <CaMason> configure: error: libpng.(a|so) not found.
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: have you tried just getting the debs from a previous version of Ubuntu and dpkg -i'ing them?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> that way easier than compiling them manually
[19:19] <CaMason> no. This is maintenance for an old piece of software and we've been instructed to use a very specific set of configure options
[19:20] <CaMason> I've not had a problem building in the past. Only now I've set a VM up for natty
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> Why natty, and not an long-term stable release like Lucid (trying to find an easier way out here :))
[19:20] <CaMason> I get the same png issue with 5.3 source (straight from php.net)
[19:21] <CaMason> this isn't really an issue I absolutely have to resolve - I'm just setting up instructions for natty for the internal wiki. But it's been bugging me why I can't get it to configure :)
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> It's because natty seems to be going multiarch (or something) and things are moving around
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> The developers (#ubuntu-devel?) might know more about this
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> http://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/Implementation
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> that might have clues
[19:23] <CaMason> ahhhhh
[19:23] <CaMason> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/php5/+bug/739977
[19:24] <CaMason> numerous patches including '$DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH' in the test lines in configure
[19:25] <CaMason> "we can't use --with-libdir yet because that requires all the build-deps to have moved."
[19:25] <CaMason> so basically, php 5.2.17 wont build properly yet on natty.
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> CaMason: now you know why it's broken, and you have a path to a fix :)
[19:26] <CaMason> I will cheat and symlink for now..
[19:26] <CaMason> but - I now know *why* its failing
[19:26] <CaMason> Thanks for pointing me in the right direction
[19:27] <MartijnVdS> np
[19:28] <CaMason> so that must be why libjpg is OK with one version from apt.. one must be multiarch, the other isn't
[19:30] <CaMason> and now I see the patch that fixes it: ++      test -f $i/$PHP_LIBDIR/$DEB_HOST_MULTIARCH/libpng.$SHLIB_SUFFIX_NAME && GD_PNG_DIR=$i && break
[19:39] <DJones> ping YaManicKill
[19:51] <scoundrel50a> I use a mouse on my laptop, so I didnt notice with the install of 10.10 earlier that my touchpad isnt working, would anybody be able to help get it working?
[19:54] <scoundrel50a> nobody have any ideas?
[19:54] <DJones> scoundrel50a: Looks to be a bit quiet at the minute
[19:55] <scoundrel50a> I just thought I would add what bI had done till now, until somebody might be able to help....
[19:55] <davmor2> scoundrel50a: try having a look on the forum's or wiki I suggest google for both
[20:56] <BigRedS> Nobody's said anything for an hour; is dr who on or something?
[20:56] <DJones> Heh
[20:57] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: next week :)
[20:58]  * suprengr says "anything"... just to help BigRedS
[20:58] <BigRedS> haha
[20:58] <BigRedS> I just alt-tabbed and had a screenload of leaves and joins and wondered what I was missing
[20:58] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: an hour of silence.
[21:06] <popey> njpatel: a question for you...
[21:06] <popey> njpatel: most people I know have dual monitors side by side
[21:06] <popey> what if you have your monitors one above the other?
[21:06] <popey> you'll have two global menus, one across the middle of the work area
[21:06] <popey> that sounds less than ideal
[21:07] <popey> is there any way to set it so you _only_ get a global menu on the 'top' monitors?
[21:07] <popey> (I suspect not, but asking anyway)
[21:07]  * AlanBell would be OK with a global menu on both in that setup
[21:08] <AlanBell> because you would maximise stuff to use all of one monitor (or half)
[21:08] <BigRedS> Is this unity? 'cause I'm pretty sure I've made Gnome be sensible in that situation
[21:08] <popey> yes BigRedS
[21:08] <popey> hence asking njpatel (the guy who does coding on unity)
[21:08]  * suprengr wonders if alarm clocks for u-uk members are available on NHS
[21:08] <suprengr>  #ubuntu-uk-meeting is: Next meeting Thursday April 14th at 21:00 BST
[21:08] <Biglesp> Has the meeting been rescheduled in #ubuntu-uk-meeting?
[21:08] <suprengr> ;)
[21:08] <popey> oh blimey
[21:08] <BigRedS> bah. Everything's unity these days. I should really install it...
[21:08] <AlanBell> and the point of the duplicated global menu is so you don't have to leave the monitor that the app is on and go miles and miles away
[21:08] <AlanBell> oops is that the time!
[21:08] <gord> popey, no you can't do that
[21:09] <popey> thanks gord
[21:09] <popey> maybe a wishlist for OO?
[21:09]  * suprengr hands AlanBell an alarm clock
[21:09] <AlanBell> thanks suprengr
[21:09] <AlanBell> well we have a meeting it seems
[21:09] <gord> popey, can't hurt, once we have more time we can make multi-monitor stuff better
[21:12] <scoundrel50a> ok, back after trying loads of things in trying to get my touchpad working. Its highly possiblle I have made thigns even worse, I dont know. Based on what I see, I cvouldnmt tell you what is the problem or not, I can tell you, its detected, but that is about it. If I can give some information out on What I have found, can somebody tell me if there is a problem?
[21:13]  * AlanBell kicks off meeting in #ubuntu-uk-meeting
[21:14] <AlanBell> daubers ^^
[21:26] <czajkowski> Aloha
[21:27] <AlanBell> hi czajkowski
[21:29] <czajkowski> hi
[21:29]  * AlanBell hugs czajkowski
[21:30]  * czajkowski hugs AlanBell it's been a long day
[21:35] <Myrtti> MY BED ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ I've missed you so ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
[21:36]  * DJones hasn't seen his bed in 6 days/nights
[21:36] <Myrtti> I've not seen mine for ... erm.
[21:37] <Myrtti> 12, and even then I had only one night
[21:39] <DJones> That doesn't sound good, at least I had an excuse being away on holiday
[21:56] <dwatkins> Can anyone suggest a place where I can register for a SIP account to try out some software clients?
[21:58] <bigcalm> Hi peeps
[21:58]  * AlanBell thanks suprengr for the reminder :)
[21:59] <popey> pip pip
[21:59] <suprengr> AlanBell: np, pleased to be of service ;D
[21:59] <suprengr> ...& very well done for excellant recovery
[22:02] <g5236m> @search ian fleming
[22:02] <popey> o_O
[22:03] <popey> !list
[22:03] <AlanBell> minutes available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/LastMeeting
[22:04] <AlanBell> g5236m: he died in 1964, don't think you will find him here
[22:04] <code_astronomer> :D
[22:05]  * dwatkins logs on to SIP then realises he doesn't have anyone to call :'(
[22:25] <matti> ;]
[22:37] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/889/detail/
[23:02] <ali1234> i put up my teletext code: http://github.com/ali1234/vhs-teletext
[23:03] <ali1234> you'll need a tv card with bt8x8 or maybe others will work
[23:03] <ali1234> and some old VHS tapes of course
[23:06]  * AlanBell tweets http://twitter.com/#!/alanbelltolc/status/58652378697695232
[23:15] <scoundrel50a> well, after finding loads of things about restarting the wireless, it started working, and I have no idea what started it. Which really, is very frustrating, because one, I would have to go through the whole process again, and hope it works again. 2 if anybody else needs help, I couldnt tell them what fixedmine, which in a sense annoys the hell out of me. A waste really, the same it was a waste with the network, and my Network shares, whic
[23:15] <scoundrel50a> h I still dont know what fized even though I went through loads of different things one ofter another. So in a sense, the blind being led by the blind, and as foe helping somebody else, I could c9ouls help of tht either.  Complete hit and miss and very frustrating.7
[23:15] <willy1977> gah... how do I clear my gwibber db again? can't find popey's tweet...
[23:15] <zleap> there was something about that in the latest podcast
[23:16] <scoundrel50a> To tired now,,,,,
[23:18] <willy1977> haven't had time to catch the latest one yet :( blimmin' work eh! but thanks for that it can wait till I get chance to do it.
[23:45] <bigcalm> Anybody still awake have experience using the <canvas> in HTML5?


[01:01] <jbicha> robert_ancell: hi, in case you didn't hear, I guess they want you to upload your ubuntu-welcome app soon :)
[01:07] <duflu> jbicha, thanks for the suspend-on-power fix BTW
[01:08] <jbicha> duflu: maybe we'll bring it back next year :)
[01:08] <duflu> jbicha, if it's configurable, sure. :)
[01:08] <duflu> AFAIK it's not yet user-configurable for the login screen
[01:09] <jbicha> right
[06:34] <oSoMoN> good morning desktoppers
[06:37] <jibel> Salut oSoMoN
[06:38] <oSoMoN> salut jibel
[07:11] <didrocks> good morning
[07:13] <oSoMoN> bonjour didrocks
[07:14] <didrocks> salut oSoMoN
[07:15] <seb128> salut didrocks oSoMoN
[07:15] <oSoMoN> salut seb128
[07:15] <jibel> Bonjour didrocks seb128 and all
[07:15] <seb128> lut jibel
[07:15] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[07:16] <didrocks> salut seb128, jibel !
[07:37] <seb128> andyrock, hey
[07:37] <seb128> andyrock, I'm backporting your udisks segfault fix to bionic, just as a fyi
[07:38] <andyrock> hey hey
[07:38] <andyrock> thx!
[07:40] <duflu> Morning oSoMoN, jibel, didrocks, seb128, andyrock
[07:40] <seb128> hey duflu
[07:40] <didrocks> hey duflu!
[08:00] <willcooke> morning
[08:00] <duflu> Morning willcooke
[08:00] <willcooke> duflu, koza - are you doing the BT meeting today?
[08:01] <duflu> The BT meeting moved again. Depends if koza wants it
[08:01] <duflu> Or seb
[08:01] <willcooke> Lovely timezones
[08:01] <willcooke> Seb is out this morning for a little while
[08:01] <willcooke> I have nothing
[08:02] <duflu> Alright. In that case I am putting the camera away.  I should ask for reimbursement to "life"! :)
[08:12] <Laney> /o\
[09:10] <seb128> back
[09:10] <willcooke> morning seb128
[09:10] <seb128> hey willcooke, how are you today?
[09:10] <willcooke> got a bit of a cold from the kids
[09:11] <willcooke> One of thm was up a lot last night coughing
[09:11] <willcooke> so tired as well
[09:11] <willcooke> yay :)
[09:11] <didrocks> wb seb128
[09:11] <seb128> thx
[09:12] <seb128> willcooke, welcome to the club!
[09:12] <willcooke> ha
[09:27] <ali1234> i think there is a problem with the fontconfig cache on the live images
[09:28] <willcooke> Hi ali1234, is that a new problem?  In the last few days?
[09:28] <ali1234> no
[09:28] <ali1234> it's been around for a long time
[09:28] <ali1234> it just took a long time to track it down
[09:28] <willcooke> How is it manifesting itself?
[09:29] <ali1234> basically, the files in /var/cache/fontconfig are not accepted, so the font cache gets rebuilt in ~/.cache/fontconfig for every installed font
[09:29] <willcooke> ah.  jibel - that could be a candidate for slow start up?
[09:29] <ali1234> this takes like a minute or more and delays getting to the live desktop or installer
[09:29] <ali1234> right, it's the slow startup
[09:29] <seb128> good finding if that's the issue!
[09:30] <willcooke> looks like we owe you some beers ali1234
[09:30] <ali1234> if you update a font package it rebuilds the font cache and then the problem goes away
[09:30] <seb128> so it's only the cache included on the iso?
[09:30] <ali1234> yes
[09:30] <seb128> do you know what it doesn't like about it?
[09:30] <ali1234> a little bit
[09:30] <ali1234> at xubuntu, we thought the problem was caused by bluez and we have a bug tracking that
[09:31] <seb128> that would be weird
[09:31] <ali1234> last night i figured out bluez was a red herring: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/1754836
[09:31] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1754836 in bluez (Ubuntu) "Xubuntu: ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on org.bluez:/org/bluez: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.TimedOut: Failed to activate service 'org.bluez': timed out (service_start_timeout=25000ms)" [Critical,Confirmed]
[09:31] <ali1234> see my comments at the bottom of that
[09:32] <ali1234> i dont know whether to change that bug or make a new one, if a new one i don't know what to open it against :)
[09:32] <ali1234> all the info is there though
[09:33] <ali1234> one interesting thing is that ubuntu seems to rebuild the font cache during the installer so it is only affected in the live image. however, xubuntu does not so it happens again on the user's first login to the installed system
[09:33] <jibel> willcooke, could be but the bootchart should have shown IO generated by the creation of the cache.
[09:34] <willcooke> jibel, sounds like it could well be a culprit, so interesting that the boot chart doesnt show it.
[09:34] <jibel> unless it stops too early
[09:34] <willcooke> oh, yeah
[09:34] <ali1234> it definitely gets rebuilt - just check ~/.cache/fontconfig. it should be empty except for maybe 1 file for the firefox emoji font
[09:35] <didrocks> /var/lib/dpkg/info/fontconfig.postinst looks correct at first look
[09:35] <didrocks> in the "trigger" case
[09:35] <seb128> well there are caches in the system location
[09:35] <seb128> but they are invalid
[09:35] <didrocks> we should look for "fc-cache failed" in iso build logs
[09:36] <seb128> where is the iso build log? ;)
[09:36] <didrocks> in case the invalid caches are from a fc-cache error
[09:36] <didrocks> this is why I didn't put a link, I don't know :p
[09:36] <seb128> Laney, ^ help? :)
[09:36] <seb128> or maybe jibel knows
[09:36] <ali1234> if anyone knows the structure of the cache files, i did a binary diff between working/non-working
[09:36] <ali1234> details on the bug
[09:37] <didrocks> the best case would be fc-cache generating that errors with the logs in /var/log/fontconfig.log
[09:37] <seb128> it's over my understand of fontconfig details
[09:37] <didrocks> if it only generates invalid caches and don't error out… urgh, harder to understand
[09:37] <jibel> seb128, https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/cd-build-logs/ubuntu/bionic
[09:37] <seb128> jibel, thx
[09:37] <jibel> then look at the build id in the first lines of the log
[09:38] <jibel> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/+build/128542 in this case
[09:38] <didrocks> no fc-cache error line :/
[09:38] <seb128> nothing useful in that log
[09:38] <seb128> Setting up fontconfig (2.12.6-0ubuntu1) ...
[09:38] <seb128> Regenerating fonts cache... done.
[09:38] <didrocks> so the trigger happily passed
[09:38] <seb128> Processing triggers for fontconfig (2.12.6-0ubuntu1) ...
[09:39] <seb128> yeah
[09:39] <seb128> well not a surprise if a cache file is generated
[09:39] <didrocks> and nothing below…
[09:39] <didrocks> yeah
[09:39] <jibel> Setting up fontconfig (2.12.6-0ubuntu1) ...
[09:39] <jibel> Regenerating fonts cache... done.
[09:39] <jibel> yeah :)
[09:39] <didrocks> /var/log/fontconfig.log ?
[09:39] <didrocks> is that purged from the iso? (I don't have one handy
[09:39] <didrocks> )
[09:39] <didrocks> in case that can help
[09:40] <didrocks> as we run fc-cache in verbose mode and redirect to it…
[09:40] <jibel> didrocks, i'll have a look i'm testing beta2
[09:40]  * didrocks crosses fingers log will help
[09:42] <willcooke> Debian are fingering Noto as the problem, is that right?
[09:42] <ali1234> no
[09:42] <ali1234> Noto is really slow to generate because it is huge
[09:42] <ali1234> but the issue is it shouldn't be getting generated because the cache is supposed to already be there
[09:44] <willcooke> ahhhh
[09:47] <ali1234> https://cgit.freedesktop.org/fontconfig/tree/src/fccache.c#n996 is the list of reasns why fontconfig will reject a cache file
[09:48] <ali1234> the ifdef jumps out at me as something which could be represented by that mystery field
[09:50] <jibel> hm, latest iso doesn't boot if I go directly to the live session from syslinux
[09:52] <Laney> seb128: I got as far as noticing gsd-xsettings is slow when doing some fontconfig thing, this sounds further along than I got
[09:52] <Laney> or what did you want my help with?
[09:52] <seb128> Laney, getting the url of the iso build log, but jibel had it
[09:53] <Laney> ok
[09:53] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/bionic/ubuntu/ this is a good index
[09:53] <seb128> thx
[09:58] <jibel> didrocks, http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/7YxNf7MsvY/ and it says existing cache is valid
[10:00] <seb128> it might be worth sending an email to the upstream fontconfig list with the cache bin diff
[10:00] <seb128> they might be helpful
[10:00] <seb128> ali1234, would you like to do that?
[10:01] <didrocks> jibel: :/
[10:01] <jibel> ali1234, do you know which job trigger fc-cache on log in?
[10:04] <jibel> one day I'll dd an iso to my hard drive :/
[10:11] <Laney> The GLib update doesn't look that interesting
[10:11] <jibel> interesting finding
[10:11] <Laney> gtk+3.0, probably is ok
[10:11] <LocutusOfBorg> seb128, not major update, minor debian revision
[10:11] <LocutusOfBorg> Laney, if you want, just ack and I'll upload in a ppa
[10:12] <seb128_> right, the glib change seems a bit late in the cycle
[10:12] <LocutusOfBorg> I don't want to mess up with your iso generations or similar
[10:12] <didrocks> seb128_: good catch!
[10:13] <jibel> seb128_, do you know what triggers fc-cache on log in?
[10:13] <seb128_> no
[10:13] <jibel> I cannot find anything
[10:13] <seb128_> likely fontconfig which when being used validates the cache
[10:13] <seb128_> so apps themself
[10:13] <Laney> it breaks stuff too https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=894763
[10:13] <ubot5`> Debian bug 894763 in libglib2.0-0 "libglib2.0-0: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/arm-linux-gnueabihf/libgobject-2.0.so.0: undefined symbol: g_date_copy" [Grave,Open]
[10:13] <Laney> jibel: gsd-xsettings does something with fontconfig
[10:14] <Laney> and that is part of the startup
[10:15] <Laney> LocutusOfBorg: you can upload to the queue, it'll probably get accepted after the beta
[10:15] <seb128_> bbiab, need to change location
[10:15] <Laney> and please make sure to do your changes in bzr too if you don't mind
[10:16] <Laney> might want to check if jbicha_ hasn't started this work too, would be annoying to duplicate
[10:16] <LocutusOfBorg> ok nice
[10:17] <LocutusOfBorg> I think he is *happy* to stop merging it :)
[10:18] <Laney> ok, if you know that based on some evidence
[10:18] <LocutusOfBorg> last time he asked me to do the merge :)
[10:19] <LocutusOfBorg> I did a gtk2 and he asked me to also merge gtk3
[10:19] <LocutusOfBorg> and after that also glib2 :)
[10:19] <Laney> he asked you to merge this glib upload?
[10:20] <LocutusOfBorg> nope
[10:20] <LocutusOfBorg> I'm talking about previous uploads
[10:20] <Laney> ok
[10:20] <LocutusOfBorg> done gtk3 in queue
[10:30]  * duflu closes eyes and logs off before finding any more mutter issues
[10:48] <seb128> k, back at my desk/online
[10:48] <seb128> didrocks, ali1234, sorry, had to drop from IRC for a bit, was there anything else said on the topic meanwhile?
[10:49] <ali1234> i read that bug report. seems to exactly describe what i am seeing
[10:49] <seb128> yeah, what I though as well from your binary diff/explanations
[10:49] <didrocks> seb128: nothing more, no
[10:50] <seb128> ali1234, do you want to provide some details on that upstream report or should I?
[10:50] <Laney> jibel attached the log that was asked for
[10:51] <ali1234> ah FC_DEBUG=16... i think i tried every other possible number :)
[10:52] <seb128> ah, nice
[10:55] <ali1234> ah i think i understand this now from that log - "cache checksum<PHONE_NUMBER>.601423551 dir checksum<PHONE_NUMBER>.0"
[10:56] <ali1234> so it is actually the font directory that has had the timestamp changed by going through squashfs
[10:59] <ali1234> and that's why the mystery field changes to zero
[10:59] <seb128> right
[11:00] <seb128> didrocks, do you want that as a launchpad bug report or just IRC ping?
[11:00] <seb128> $ dpkg-deb -c libsysmetrics-dev_1.0.3_i386.deb | grep pc
[11:00] <seb128> -rw-r--r-- root/root       258 2018-04-03 09:51 ./usr/lib/i686-linux-gnu/pkgconfig/sysmetrics.pc
[11:00] <seb128> didrocks, the arch triplet is i386-linux-gnu no i686
[11:00] <seb128> it makes ubuntu-welcome fail to build on i386 since it doesn't find the .pc
[11:02] <Laney> that looks like DEB_HOST_GNU_TYPE or something was used instead of DEB_HOST_MULTARCH
[11:02] <didrocks> seb128: let me just fix it, no need for paperwork
[11:02] <didrocks> yes
[11:02] <didrocks> fixing right away
[11:02] <seb128> didrocks, thx
[11:02] <Laney> with right spelling of multiarch
[11:02] <seb128> :)
[11:03] <didrocks> nw! thanks for pointing it!
[11:03] <didrocks> Laney: :)
[11:10] <didrocks> seb128: fixed, built, tested and uploaded. You can take and build latest from github if you want to take that one instead of copying on your system :)
[11:15] <seb128> didrocks, thx, the build is from a ppa so I'm just going to wait for it to be in the archive and retry
[11:15] <seb128> my bionic system is amd64 :p
[11:16] <didrocks> argh, I needed to keep one GNU style for build dir due to dh_golang…
[11:16] <didrocks> oh, true, you reinstalled :)
[11:18] <Laney> seb's specialist dual boot system
[11:19] <seb128> :)
[11:35] <didrocks> ok, the ppa ran worked this time (to avoid an useless upload), pushing
[11:35] <seb128> didrocks, :)
[11:36] <seb128> didrocks, thanks for fixing!
[11:36] <didrocks> so yeah, I used the GNU type due to dh_golang and didn't think about build dir being different than install dir (don't understand exactly why)
[11:36] <didrocks> yw!
[11:36] <didrocks> the 2 tools, being debian specific, should use the same triplet format IMHO
[11:37] <seb128> yeah, I don't know either
[11:37] <didrocks> Travis is having large roundtrip anyway to start a build, so I was able to slip that in between 2 builds :)
[11:40] <willcooke> Is there a good LP bug for the fontconfig issue?  I'd like to tag it rls-bb-incoming at least.  I can open a new one based on the upstream one if needed
[11:40] <ali1234> i don't know of any others
[11:41] <seb128> ali1234, the bluez one was about bluez or really about the slow boot/fontconfig?
[11:41] <seb128> in which case we just need to rename it
[11:41] <didrocks> seems the timeout on bluez is due to slow boot
[11:41] <seb128> willcooke, we had one about slow boot on our side already which we can maybe use?
[11:41] <ali1234> i opened it when we thought the slow boot was caused by bluez
[11:41] <ali1234> there is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1749546
[11:41] <ubot5`> Ubuntu bug 1749546 in casper (Ubuntu) "Booting a live session is slow " [Undecided,New]
[11:42] <seb128> reusing that seems fine to me
[11:42] <willcooke> ah nice, let's reuse that one
[11:42] <willcooke> ta
[11:42] <seb128> willcooke, thx
[11:42] <willcooke> I'll update etc
[11:42] <didrocks> it's great to have at least an idea where this may be coming from :)
[11:42] <jibel> willcooke, I'll reassign to fontconfig
[11:42] <willcooke> jibel, I'm doing that now
[11:43] <Laney> I'm already assigned to it, it's fine
[11:43] <Laney> but if you want ...
[11:43] <willcooke> :)
[11:43] <jibel> you can remove casper
[11:44] <Laney> oh you probably don't mean #1750846
[11:45] <jibel> no it's different
[11:46] <Laney> is it though
[11:46] <ali1234> i have a feeling that the fontconfig thing may cause a knock-on effect where other stuff times out
[11:46] <ali1234> especially dbus - hence the bluez thing as well
[11:46] <willcooke> +1
[11:46] <ali1234> i have no evidence for this though
[11:47] <willcooke> sounds plausible
[11:47] <seb128> one easy way to figure out, fix the fontconfig issue and see if that resolves the other ones :)
[11:47] <willcooke> :)
[11:47] <willcooke> anyone want to own this one?
[11:47] <willcooke> Would like to see if we can get it fixed for beta
[11:47] <seb128> do you know where is the team mapping list?
[11:47] <willcooke> try at least
[11:48] <seb128> I wonder who owns fontconfig
[11:48] <Laney> be calm
[11:48] <Laney> I've been assigned to the bug I just referenced for some time, I'm working on it
[11:48] <seb128> wfm, thanks Laney!
[11:49] <Laney> I found out last night / this morning that gsd-xsettings was blocking the start up in fontconfig stuff
[11:49] <willcooke> thanks Laney
[11:49] <Laney> so ali1234 coming in with more analysis is good timing
[11:49] <seb128> Laney, well it was just that if the issues turns out to be in fontconfig and that foundations own that then we might want to bounce to them at this point
[11:50] <seb128> but your call at the end
[11:50] <willcooke> j_bicha was the last one to touch it ;))
[11:51] <Laney> as for who owns the package, look at the subscribers
[11:51] <Laney> mapping is generated from that
[11:51] <seb128> desktop-packages and foundations-bugs are subscribed
[11:51] <seb128> so we both own it? :)
[11:51] <Laney> seems so
[11:51] <Laney> quick, press the unsubscribe button
[11:52] <seb128> I was going to say :p
[11:52] <didrocks> ahah, first one unsubribing wins :)
[11:55]  * willcooke <- sandwich
[11:56] <seb128> willcooke, enjoy!
[11:56]  * seb128 just had some takeway pasta, that was good
[12:54] <Laney> can't think of a better way to fix that fontconfig thing than ignoring the nanoseconds if it's 0
[12:54] <Laney> ali1234: got any ideas?
[12:55] <Laney> I tried a patch to do that, which works
[12:55] <Laney> boot speed still isn't exactly amazing though
[12:56] <Laney> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ systemd-analyze
[12:56] <Laney> Startup finished in 24.412s (kernel) + 1min 23.971s (userspace) = 1min 48.384s
[12:56] <Laney> graphical.target reached after 28.680s in userspace
[12:57] <Laney> however it does fix the gsd problems
[13:04] <Laney> hmm that second try was way better, weird
[13:05] <Laney> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ systemd-analyze
[13:05] <Laney> Startup finished in 12.572s (kernel) + 23.512s (userspace) = 36.084s
[13:05] <Laney> graphical.target reached after 23.473s in userspace
[13:55] <oSoMoN> willcooke, seb128: libreoffice 6.0.3 will be out this week (currently in RC2, for which we have a snap in the candidate channel btw), and we have 6.0.2 in bionic today. How do you feel about pushing the update (supposedly bug fixes only, I will double-check that)? Or better to SRU after release?
[13:55] <willcooke> hum
[13:56] <willcooke> I dont suppose we've really given .2 a proper shakedown since not that many people are using it.
[13:56] <willcooke> So shipping .3 isn't a massive problem
[13:57] <willcooke> What do we do with, say, Firefox in this situation chrisccoulson?  ^
[13:57] <seb128> oSoMoN, I would push it to bionic, we can keep it in proposed for a while and decide to turn it into a SRU from there if we prefer
[13:57] <jbicha> we're still ~3 weeks from release, we still do bug fix updates :)
[13:59] <chrisccoulson> willcooke, I normally just upload it and somebody approves it - it's usually already in the security pocket for other releases by the time I do that though
[14:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey again, did you see my questions about those translations earlier? ;)
[14:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah. The answer is yes
[14:00] <seb128> jbicha, btw bug #1759538 has been ack-ed so you can make g-s recommends it with the next upload
[14:00] <ubot5`> bug 1759538 in bolt (Ubuntu) "[ffe] Install bolt by default for thunderbolt devices support" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1759538
[14:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thx
[14:01] <oSoMoN> good, so I'll double-check the upstream changelog and diff to make sure they didn't sneak new features in, and will coordinate with ricotz to prepare a 6.0.3 upload
[14:02] <seb128> thx, let me know if/when you need sponsoring
[14:03] <oSoMoN> that'll most likely be early next week
[14:06] <seb128> k
[14:07] <Laney> looks like ipv6 came back, brb!
[14:07] <Laney> feels modern
[14:08] <seb128> is there a way to make softwares not removable in gnome-software?
[14:08] <seb128> bug #1756788 seems annoying
[14:08] <ubot5`> bug 1756788 in gnome-session (Ubuntu) "Removing "Startup Applications" in "Ubuntu Software" makes the system unable to launch GDM" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1756788
[14:08] <seb128> I guess it removes gnome-session, DOH
[14:08] <Laney> yes, you can make it compulsory-for-desktop or whatever the thing is
[14:09] <seb128> k, thx
[14:12]  * ricotz wonders what openjdk-11 packages versioned as 10~46-4ubuntu1 are about
[14:13] <ricotz> hey desktopers
[14:17] <seb128> hey ricotz
[14:17] <Laney> moin ricotz
[14:18] <Laney> don't think the desktop team particularly knows about java, better to ask the uploader?
[14:18] <seb128> +1
[14:18] <ricotz> seb128, Laney, hi
[14:19] <ricotz> I guess the uploader already removed the source packages from the archive again
[14:19] <ricotz> so hard to tell where it came from, I assume d_oko did
[14:20] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openjdk-lts/10~46-4ubuntu1
[14:20] <seb128> jbicha, thx :)
[14:21] <ricotz> Laney, oohh
[14:21] <ali1234> Laney: i don't know, but can't you fix the squashfs, rather than patching fontconfig?
[14:21] <ricotz> Laney, aptitude failed to show me the changelog
[14:23] <Laney> ali1234: how?
[14:24] <ali1234> well the most obvious way would be to build it on a filesystem that doesn't have nanos, so that the cache remains valid after being copied through squashfs
[14:25] <ali1234> manually stripping the nanos from /usr/share/fonts (recursive) before generating the cache would also work
[14:26] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, hi, are you going to upload tb 52.7.3?
[14:26] <ali1234> i suppose that would mess with the deb file timestamps
[14:27] <ricotz> chrisccoulson, ah sorry, I thought they tagged it
[14:28] <Laney> not sure LP people would be happy with that, and I'd rather a more generic solution anyway
[14:28] <Laney> so either make fontconfig tolerate this situation or change squashfs
[14:30] <ali1234> the way i see it, the timestamps are going to be truncated at some point. so you'd just be making it happen earlier
[14:30] <ali1234> it wouldn't change the effective timestamp on any files managed by packages
[14:32] <ali1234> but i have no idea how the image builders work
[14:34] <jbicha> ricotz: did you want to try adding/moving the Thunderbird app icons LP: #1682455 ?
[14:34] <ubot5`> Launchpad bug 1682455 in thunderbird (Ubuntu) "thunderbird not available in GNOME Software" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1682455
[14:39] <ricotz> jbicha, tweaking the stable packages is more a thing for chris
[14:39] <ricotz> jbicha, did you find a way to confirm that this works properly with the ff60 betas?
[14:40] <jbicha> ask Lan_ey but I don't think appstream data from PPAs is usable in the GNOME Software app yet
[14:41] <jbicha> so the only way I know to know for sure is to upload to bionic and see
[14:50] <ricotz> jbicha, I could take a look if chris would push his packaging changes
[14:50] <ricotz> should be similar to the firefox-esr changes I made
[14:52] <jbicha> thanks
[14:52] <ricotz> jbicha, e.g. https://paste.debian.net/plain/1018499
[14:59] <jbicha> ricotz: maybe you could talk Mozilla into providing an ESR snap so you don't have to maintain that PPA :)
[15:02] <ricotz> jbicha, I am not sure that people wanting firefox-esr are using snaps
[15:04] <jbicha> it might not be a bad choice compared to a PPA
[15:05] <jbicha> I'm just guessing, but I think we'll be hesitant to allow firefox-esr in to the Ubuntu archives
[16:34]  * Laney waves from the train
[16:34] <Laney> new 4g wifi thing works well!
[16:42] <xnox> Laney, cool! =)
[16:42]  * Laney high fives xnox
[16:43] <Laney> I should probably turn some things off so I don't burn through all the data tho
[16:44]  * Laney ticks "restrict background data usage"
[16:46] <xnox> Laney, i wonder if unattended-upgrades respects the "restrict background data usage" is that an Gnome-shell thing, or a Network Manager thing?
[16:52] <Laney> xnox: It sets metered on the dbus interface I think, and GNetworkMonitor exposes that (g_network_monitor_get_network_metered())
[16:52] <Laney> so it probably doesn't unless it uses one of those APIs
[16:53] <xnox> Laney, session or system bus?
[16:53] <Laney> NM is on the system bus
[16:54] <Laney> do something like busctl --system introspect org.freedesktop.NetworkManager /org/freedesktop/NetworkManager
[16:56] <Laney> although for me that is currently 4 which is apparently GUESS_NO
[17:19] <Laney> ok now it's 1 after reconneccting
[17:32] <Laney> xnox: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/KBH6G3ZBGf/
[17:33] <Laney> I think android and ios have a thing to set that automatically on tethering btw
[17:42] <Laney> goodnight from newark northgate
[17:49] <willcooke> night all


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[03:52] <mup> Bug #1526859 opened: Only latest LTS is shown in the Settings page <python3> <MAAS:Fix Committed by rbanffy> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1526859>
[03:55] <mup> Bug #1526859 changed: Only latest LTS is shown in the Settings page <python3> <MAAS:Fix Committed by rbanffy> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1526859>
[03:58] <mup> Bug #1526859 opened: Only latest LTS is shown in the Settings page <python3> <MAAS:Fix Committed by rbanffy> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1526859>
[04:01] <mup> Bug #1526859 changed: Only latest LTS is shown in the Settings page <python3> <MAAS:Fix Committed by rbanffy> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1526859>
[04:04] <mup> Bug #1526859 opened: Only latest LTS is shown in the Settings page <python3> <MAAS:Fix Committed by rbanffy> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1526859>
[15:08] <mup> Bug #1527634 opened: [1.10] Disk erasing with Xenial results it abnormal poweroff <python3> <MAAS:Confirmed> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527634>
[15:48] <tiagogomes> hi, a typical setup of MaaS only has a single region controller running?
[16:21] <roaksoax> tiagogomes: that's correct, we don't yet support multiple regions
[16:23] <tiagogomes> roaksoax thanks. I am very new to this, so probably this is a daft question, but can you use MaaS to deploy JuJu, so that JuJu orchestrates software in VMs running instead of the baremetal itself
[16:24] <tiagogomes> s/ in VMs running/running in VMs/
[16:59] <mup> Bug #1527684 opened: Use python-ilo vs. IPMI for HP Boxes <feature> <power> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527684>
[17:10] <roaksoax> tiagogomes: you use juju alongside maas to do that. MAAS is just the "hardware" provider
[17:11] <roaksoax> tiagogomes: juju has different providers, ec2, openstck, ..., maas.
[17:11] <mup> Bug #1527684 changed: Use python-ilo vs. IPMI for HP Boxes <feature> <power> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527684>
[17:14] <mup> Bug #1527684 opened: Use python-ilo vs. IPMI for HP Boxes <feature> <power> <MAAS:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527684>
[17:14] <mup> Bug #1527688 opened: maas web ui gives error: Unable to connect to: ws://<IP_ADDRESS>/MAAS/ws <sts> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527688>
[17:27] <tiagogomes> I would like to bootstrap JuJu on top of MaaS, so that the JuJu state machine would run in the baremetal. But once JuJu was boostrapped, I would like to deploy applications with JuJu in virtual machines
[17:44] <mup> Bug #1527688 changed: maas web ui gives error: Unable to connect to: ws://<IP_ADDRESS>/MAAS/ws <sts> <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527688>
[17:53] <mup> Bug #1527699 opened: MAAS documentation still uses port 80 even though it's deprecated <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527699>
[17:56] <mup> Bug #1527699 changed: MAAS documentation still uses port 80 even though it's deprecated <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527699>
[18:11] <mup> Bug #1527699 opened: MAAS documentation still uses port 80 even though it's deprecated <MAAS:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1527699>
[20:37] <spaok> hey guys, I'm trying to get some custom curtin stuff running when juju deploys, but it seems like it's not running any of the stuff in the preseed file, any advice on what to look at?
[20:37] <spaok> followed this --> https://www.stackevolution.com/node/17
[20:38] <spaok> and --> https://www.stackevolution.com/node/20
[20:38] <spaok> both of which I want
[21:19] <caturday> from `maas root boot-resources import`: "gpg --batch --verify --keyring=... Signature made Wed Nov 4 16:09:43 2015 EST ... BAD signature from \"Ubuntu Cloud Image Builder...\""
[21:20] <caturday> this is the single google result for "bad signature from ubuntu cloud image builder"
[21:20] <caturday> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/09/01/%23ubuntu-server.html
[21:20] <caturday> to get here, i followed these instructions: https://maas.ubuntu.com/docs/sstreams-mirror.html
[21:21] <caturday> but swapped out "daily" for "releases"
[21:21] <caturday> then tar'd up the resulting mirror and moved it to my maas server
[21:21] <caturday> and now the images won't import with that error
[21:23] <caturday> it sure looks like the current trusty releases streams metadata files (https://maas.ubuntu.com/images/ephemeral-v2/releases/streams/v1/) have had bad signatures for more than a month
[21:23] <caturday> i bet i'm doing something wrong, but...
[21:23] <spaok> I did the mirror thing, but I didn't try reimporting the images
[21:24] <spaok> wonder if I will have the same issue
[21:24] <caturday> i'd be interested to find out
[21:24] <caturday> spaok: from releases or from daily?
[21:25] <caturday> that might be my mistake, but i'm not sure why "releases" and "daily" would mean something different than what one would expect them to mean
[21:25] <spaok> rlease
[21:25] <spaok> release
[21:25] <caturday> k
[21:25] <spaok> i do
[21:25] <spaok> sstream-mirror --keyring=/usr/share/keyrings/ubuntu-cloudimage-keyring.gpg  http://maas.ubuntu.com/images/ephemeral-v2/releases/ /var/www/html/images/ephemeral-v2/releases 'arch=amd64' 'release~(trusty|wily)' --max=1
[21:26] <caturday> you left out the subarch thing?
[21:26] <spaok> ya, cause it wasn't working for wily
[21:26] <caturday> also, i have some systems that are still on 12.04, so i used trusty|precise as documented
[21:27] <caturday> (that should go away, but i didn't want to have to make the mirror again
[21:27] <caturday> )
[21:28] <spaok> i'm still just trying to get my head around how to use ubuntu and MAAS, for some reason my preseeding stuff isn't working
[21:28] <caturday> what i'm not sure about is:
[21:28] <caturday> the contents of https://maas.ubuntu.com/images/ephemeral-v2/releases/streams/v1/index.json.gpg and the PGP block at the bottom of the index.sjson file are different
[21:28] <caturday> and i'm not sure if that's the way it's supposed to be
[21:28] <caturday> spaok: i dunno, i haven't gotten to preseed yet
[21:30] <spaok> caturday: ya I'm not sure about the keys, I'm kinda just stumbling around with those, I have mirror scripts for most stuff and a lot of them I imported the gpg keys to a local mirror key file, but streams if diffferent than debmirroring it seems
[21:30] <spaok> I
[21:30] <spaok> I'm justing wondering if these images are curtin or debianinstaller ones
[21:31] <caturday> i was able to get this to work on a different machine using daily, and those were curtin
[21:31] <spaok> cause neither of the preseeds seem to work for me
[21:31] <spaok> kk, maybe I'll try those
[21:31] <caturday> k
[21:32] <spaok> I'm way to used to rhel
[21:50] <rbasak> caturday: I believe inline PGP signatures are different from detached PGP signatures.
[21:50] <rbasak> caturday: I looked into trying to use a single signature for both, and it's awkward at best.
[21:51] <rbasak> caturday: they should both validate though.
[21:51] <rbasak> caturday: .sjson exists to avoid mirror update race conditions.
[22:05] <caturday> rbasak: i'll have to looked into testing them on monday...i've left work :D
[22:05] <caturday> rbasak: but thanks for the pointer
[22:27] <spaok> caturday: negitive on updated images running preseeds for me
[22:27] <spaok> not really sure what is going on