[02:20] <wrst> oh an netritious bought cables from amazon the amazon basics brand I was a little suspect of them but had good reviews, so far so good
[02:48] <minasota> Is there a way to get links in weechat to open in w3m? When I ssh into my vps and attach the tmux session, I would like for the url's I click on to open with w3m in the split pane
[02:49] <minasota> Vertical split - w3m on the left, weechat on that right with mouse enabled (/mouse /enable)
[02:50] <minasota> err /mouse enable that is
[02:54] <minasota> I can disable mouse, use the tmux keybinding to select text and copy, then toggle to w3m pane and paste the url... It works but it's... not as easy as I judge it could be
[05:12] <netritious> nice wrst! glad it was just a cable :)
[13:40] <wrst> yeah netritious now to purchase a boatload of network cards.... the budget must catch up a bit I will "struggle" along for now :)
[18:28] <netritious> wrst: lol struggle
[18:28] <wrst> yeah this connection is wonderful!
[18:28] <wrst> have 3 HD video streams playing right now
[18:28] <wrst> and not taxing anything close
[18:29] <netritious> can I just rent a room in the back? pitch a tent? SOMETHING?! lol
[18:39] <wrst> ha ha could give you the wifi password
[18:39] <wrst> :)
[18:39] <netritious> :)
[18:40] <wrst> now my challenge is just getting things so I can actually use it :)
[18:42] <netritious> i bet you could subsidise the cost of the connection and equipment between your neighbors via wifi
[18:42] <wrst> ha ha well they can all get the same thing now
[18:42] <wrst> but I could get fancy and charge them a fraction :)
[18:48] <netritious> that's what I meant, charge a fraction to each neighbor monthly and it would cheaper for tehm and you
[18:48] <netritious> *them
[18:48] <wrst> could get some of those point to point wifi antennaes
[18:49] <wrst> yeah I don't think I need to get into the ISP business :)
[18:49] <wrst> I'm having enough trouble getting a connection to my dad's barn for cameras
[18:49] <netritious> lol
[18:49] <netritious> I imagine it can become time consuming
[18:50] <netritious> do you plan to run more than one AP wrst?
[18:51] <wrst> at home? I'm not unless I need to but the ubiquitis I think automagically mesh together if you need them so plan on starting with one of them, or possibly might just go with that AP you showed me that would be a LOT easier and really make more sense
[18:52] <netritious> I've read a little bit about the ubiquiti routers and mesh networking and am not entirely convinced I'm ready to make that move.
[18:53] <netritious> If it ain't broke...
[18:53] <netritious> but if you do decide to run two APs at home with a pfsense box, it's simply adding another NIC on the pfsense box and plugging in the new AP.
[18:54] <netritious> and some config of course via the GUI
[18:55] <netritious> so say one AP is <IP_ADDRESS>/24 and the other AP is <IP_ADDRESS>/8, these networks will route to each other without issue via pfsense
[18:56] <wrst> sounds like pfsense is just the stuff really when you get down to it
[18:57] <netritious> if you only want <IP_ADDRESS>/8 to talk to <IP_ADDRESS>/24. but not vice versa, just setup a firewall rule
[18:57] <netritious> it's the closest thing I have gotten to that is free, stable, works on just about everything, has a webgui (like most routers do, commercial or otherwise), etc
[18:58] <netritious> commercial grade firewall for free
[18:58] <netritious> the best advice I could give you is don't go crazy on the packages unless you intend to backup very often
[18:59] <wrst> yeah netritious I just want the network to work
[18:59] <wrst> I really have no fancy needs just need to forward a port or two and that is really about it
[18:59] <wrst> I have found with things like pfsense usually the default is a pretty safe setup
[19:00] <wrst> I used a mikrotik router for a while and its default setup was really good and reasonably safe
[19:01] <netritious> I've heard they are nice...the microtik routers I mean. with pfsense though I recommend to use a hdd and not an ssd, use intel NICs, at least 2-4GB ram, (1GB is fine if you don't run snort) and you are gtg
[19:15] <netritious> I use 2.5" laptop drives mostly, although recently I paid way to much for the only officially supported ssd
[19:20] <wrst> yeah I was planning on a hard drive, shoudl I use a SSD for pfsense?
[19:20] <wrst> is the processor very important? figured it needed to be decent?
[19:21] <netritious> stick with an HDD
[19:21] <netritious> a harddrive
[19:21] <wrst> gotcha will do
[19:21] <wrst> have a 40GB just sitting here that is a good drive I never used
[19:22] <netritious> there is no real benefit to using SSD unless you are going for really low power (which I am)
[19:23] <netritious> If you have it use a SATA HDD although I'm not 100% it will matter. YMMV with IDE.
[19:24] <wrst> have sata just a very small one :)
[19:24] <wrst> this sounds fun
[19:24] <netritious> that should work fine
[19:25] <netritious> you'll know if it doesn't work right after install, and sometimes only then.
[19:26] <wrst> ha ha
[19:26] <wrst> well not like it has to work on the first run, I would be disappointed if it did
[19:26] <wrst> downloaded it last night and played around with it for a few minutes in a vm
[19:28] <netritious> yeah it works great in a vm. I use to use a pfsense VM configured as a bridge so I could put VM's directly on the net and manage it all on one workstation.
[19:28] <netritious> was good for testing servers
[19:29] <netritious> but not having to manage another machine to do it all
[19:29] <netritious> *do all of the routing/filtering
[19:29] <wrst> cool I was just looking at the UI nothing so grand :)
[19:30] <netritious> *an additional physical machine to do all the routing/filtering
[19:30] <netritious> nah, it's pretty basic.
[19:31] <netritious> depends on the packages. not every package has the same ease of configuration
[19:36] <netritious> if you recall I mentioned a few years ago buying two hp sff that had 3x PCI-e and 1x PCI? still have them, still running pfsense, every slot filled, four NICs in primary, two dual ports, one intel onboard gigabit, (7x RJ45 gigabit), then a cold standby with just two NICs, no RAM or hdd/ssd.
[19:37] <netritious> took the 2GB DDR2 from one and filled the four slots in the other for a total of 4GB RAM.
[19:39] <netritious> at the end of the journey, I might find I could have just spent the money and purchased a router directly from pfsense with commercial support lol
[19:43] <netritious> but for a 2-3 NIC setup, if you already have the hardware, it's reasonable and cost effective.
[19:46] <netritious> nope, cost me <half two have a cold standby, more ram, more ports, and user serviceable
[19:46] <netritious> *to have
[19:50] <wrst> but the fun is in the building and tinkering when I get something to work I'm partially disappointed :)
[19:51] <netritious> and get bored so move on to something else... :)
[20:13] <wrst> ha ha yes :)
[20:18] <wrst> ohhhh parts just came... bye! :)
[23:52] <Omnifrog>  I hate lawnmowers


[12:29] <Technophil> Hi, could someone clarify for me re JYA's repos, a display profle must be added to enable VDPAU, should the configs be added to an existing profile, and if so which one, I made a new on VDPAU as per http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/VDPAU however I am not getting a CPU reduction
[14:27] <Lossif> how do you turn off the auto update that pops up wyth mythbuntu 9.04?
[14:28] <Lossif> my wife just gets frustrated with it... and I update it on my own anyhow...
[14:55] <r3z> Lossif, Not sure if this still applies. System > Administration > Software Preferences > Internet Preferences > unclick check for updates automatically
[14:55] <r3z> I know that is how it was many moons ago.
[14:55] <Lossif> very cool, thanks alot!
[14:58] <rhpot1991> sadly they didn't used to get in the way as badly before
[15:00] <r3z> ya
[15:00] <r3z> used to just notify you with your icon changing.
[15:00] <r3z> Now its "IN YOUR FACE!"
[15:01] <Lossif> ya you can't do anything w/o a keyboard either
[15:01] <Lossif> and i don't keep a keyboard handy with the mythbox...
[15:01] <r3z> VNC FTW
[15:01] <Lossif> well... now I do because of this...
[15:01] <Lossif> vnc?
[15:01] <r3z> Ya
[15:02] <r3z> Enable remote desktop i.e. VNC
[15:02] <Lossif> sorry <--- noob here
[15:02] <r3z> No prob. We all started somewhere.
[15:02] <r3z>  ;)
[15:12] <rhpot1991> r3z: ya we can do that, but when the wife sees that she doesn't know what the heck to do
[15:12] <rhpot1991> so my opinion is thats its easier to just kill that and update over ssh
[15:20] <r3z> Yep
[16:15] <MythbuntuGuest65> Quick question, Does /var/log/boot.msg permissions always switch back to default even after reboot?
[16:27] <MythbuntuGuest65> Please advise
[17:16] <gumpert345> hi, I have been running mythtv trunk for some time now, (ubuntu + trunk repository) will I be able to switch from trunk to stable, when 0.22 is out?
[17:20] <rhpot1991> gumpert345: you should be able to, will just need to remove the trunk repo from apt
[17:21] <gumpert345> thx
[19:45] <darthanubis> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=ubuntu_910_alpha1&num=1
[19:56] <BLuEGoD> i have a problem... i upgraded mythbuntu and after running mythtv frontend it hangs with a red box :S I don't know what happened..


[03:39] <pitti> Good morning
[04:57] <bschaefer> hello, has anyone been having a problem with gdb and unity/compiz?
[04:57] <bschaefer> and gdb seg faulting from setting a break point?
[04:58] <veebers> heh, I ask the same question as bschaefer :)
[04:58] <bschaefer> example: "b LauncherController.cpp:200"
[05:23] <robert_ancell> RAOF, can you get new packages out of the NEW queue?
[05:24] <RAOF> Nope, not an archive admin.
[05:24] <RAOF> Sorry.
[05:24] <robert_ancell> hmm, who is a local archive admin...
[05:24] <RAOF> But there *are* to AAs who have been active in #ubuntu-release in the last 10 minutes or so ☺
[08:00] <seb128> hey
[08:07] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:07] <seb128> pitti, hey, how are you?
[08:07] <pitti> seb128: I'm great, thanks! how about you?
[08:08] <seb128> pitti, I'm good thanks!
[08:14] <didrocks> bonjour bonjour :)
[08:15] <seb128> didrocks, salut!
[08:15] <seb128> didrocks, how is London? how is the sprint going?
[08:15] <seb128> didrocks, how close are we to see a SRU or quantal upload? ;-)
[08:16] <didrocks> seb128: London is londonish again
[08:16] <didrocks> seb128: meaning rain :)
[08:16] <sil2100> Huush hush
[08:16] <seb128> hehe
[08:16] <didrocks> SRU, sil2100 is testing today the SRU packages
[08:16] <seb128> we got the sun back here :p
[08:16] <didrocks> we need to know if the bamf test failing was intended or not
[08:16] <didrocks> (like flacky or not)
[08:16] <sil2100> seb128: you stole our sun now didn't you?!
[08:16] <seb128> didrocks, sil2100: if you guys have a ppa, I'm still on precise and happy to install the candidates as well
[08:16] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, sil2100 has it
[08:17] <seb128> sil2100, heh, let's put things back in the right order, the weather you got is the one London is supposed to have, it's you guys who have been stealing our sun for 3 days
[08:17] <sil2100> seb128: ppa:sil2100/ppa
[08:17] <sil2100> :(
[08:17] <didrocks> seb128: no compiz upload to quantal though
[08:17] <didrocks> seb128: as we still experience some crashes
[08:17] <didrocks> and dx upstream seems to have other priorities
[08:17] <didrocks> same with gsettings, got emails telling it's not a priority for them right now
[08:17] <seb128> didrocks, ok :-(
[08:18] <didrocks> I'm quite unhappy
[08:18] <sil2100> seb128: I've uploaded compiz, libunity and bamf to this PPA
[08:18] <didrocks> especially that we discussed it about Tim
[08:18] <didrocks> and it was "ok ok"
[08:18] <seb128> sil2100, cool, I will give them a run
[08:18] <sil2100> seb128: we're still waiting on BAMF though, since the merger encounter a problem with one of the tests
[08:18] <sil2100> seb128: so I'm waiting for Trevinho to look at that
[08:18] <seb128> ok
[08:18] <seb128> sil2100, but you just said it's in the ppa?
[08:19] <seb128> sil2100, you merged the patches in your version?
[08:19] <didrocks> seb128: he did :)
[08:19] <sil2100> seb128: yes, I cherry-picked them and pushed to a PPA for now
[08:20] <sil2100> seb128: but it's not the final version, since we need to get one of the patches fixed
[08:20] <sil2100> seb128: for bamf of course
[08:22] <seb128> right
[08:22] <seb128> didrocks, sil2100: thanks, I will give the ppa a try
[08:22] <didrocks> seb128: keep us in touch
[08:23] <seb128> will do
[08:28] <popey> didrocks, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/vino/+bug/608701
[08:28] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 608701 in vino "vino establishes a HTTP connection to check connectivity" [Low,Fix released]
[08:29] <seb128> popey, hey, what about this bug?
[08:30] <popey> seb128, i was just discussing it with didrocks here...
[08:30] <seb128> popey, isn't it fixed since oneiric?
[08:30] <popey> vino makes an xmlrpc call out to two servers owned by upstream devs
[08:30] <seb128> popey, is it still doing that?
[08:31] <popey> I don't see how it's fixed, the current source has it
[08:31]  * popey looks further
[08:31] <seb128> popey, dunno, see cyphermox's comment #12
[08:31] <popey> yeah, i am trying to figure out how it was dropped
[08:31] <popey> or whether we have regressed
[08:32] <popey> because the webservices are still specified in capplet/webservices
[08:33] <popey> and the webservices file mentions that the php file called at the remote end is also included in the source tarball, which it isnt
[08:33] <popey> didrocks says it's in upstream git, not the tarball
[08:35] <popey> I'd rather we had that php on one of our own servers, rather than upstream ones
[08:36] <didrocks> I know, we should put that on a popey's box!
[08:36] <popey> \o/
[08:36]  * popey files an RT
[08:36] <didrocks> heh
[08:37] <seb128> popey, that was discussed by then but I think people didn't like the idea
[08:37] <popey> I don't like the idea of random 3rd party sites knowing which ubuntu users have port 5900 open
[08:38] <popey> especially as those domains could expire, and expose us to a security issue letting randoms connect to our customer vnc ports
[08:38] <seb128> popey, right, that's not supposed to happen, cf cyphermox's comment
[08:38] <seb128> popey, how did you check the issue?
[08:38] <seb128> i.e what do you do and when is it contacting the service?
[08:38] <jibel> seb128, I added a testcase for bug 1015497
[08:38] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015497 in gtk+3.0 "Cannot select gtk dropdown list value in multiple applications: ubiquity, landscape client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015497
[08:38] <seb128> jibel, thanks
[08:42] <popey> seb128, i confirmed it with tcpdump
[08:42] <seb128> popey, reopen the bug I guess then?
[08:42] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1052301/
[08:42] <popey> yeah
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> oh, i guess bug 1015497 is why i couldn't change base in gcalctool yesterday. i thought i'd broken something locally ;)
[08:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015497 in gtk+3.0 "Cannot select gtk dropdown list value in multiple applications: ubiquity, landscape client" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015497
[08:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, gtk 3.5 fallback I guess ;-)
[08:44] <seb128> popey, I think the comment was based on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=596190#c4
[08:44] <ubot2> Gnome bug 596190 in Preferences Dialog "Misleading message about reachability from public network" [Critical,New]
[08:44] <seb128> popey, maybe they added it back since
[08:47] <seb128> popey, didrocks: reading the IRC log from by then, mdeslaur and others didn't think having a file hosted at canonical.com would be a good idea either
[08:48] <seb128> popey, didrocks: that could be perceived are us sneaking infos from users or something
[08:48] <popey> hah
[08:48] <popey> I'd rather we got that info than a domain squatter
[08:49] <seb128> popey, right, or we can try to think further and try to figure a way where nobody gets infos from users? ;-)
[08:51] <popey> fair comment
[08:52] <seb128> popey, worth case just disable the "check if online" thing
[08:52] <seb128> it's not that useful?
[08:52] <popey> I guess it's useful for our target users
[08:53] <popey> people who don't know port forwarding from a hole in the ground
[09:00] <BigWhale> A lot of fuss on twitter about Canonical using QML/Qt for all their future applications. Is this also Ubuntu related?
[09:03] <seb128> BigWhale, it's only one of the platform available, Ubuntu doesn't force you to use anything and most of our applications are GTK based
[09:09] <BigWhale> seb128, yeah, I was just wondering what is this all about. :) I wonder how many will pick it up as: "omg wtf, canonical is ditching gtk!" :)
[09:11] <seb128> BigWhale, I didn't follow whatever happened that recently started those tweets etc, but Qt has been pushed as a first class citizen platform for some time in Ubuntu, we got it on the CD in Oneiric and there was Qt tracks at UDS
[09:11] <seb128> BigWhale, it doesn't mean GTK doesn't remain a first class platform as well ;-)
[09:13] <Laney> it's related as much as the choice of toolkit/libraries affects Ubuntu for any application ;-)
[10:09] <topyli> BigWhale: canonical can use tcl/tk if they like, for their own apps. the ubuntu desktop is still based on gnome and i don't see that changing any time soon. canonical is not ubuntu
[10:10] <seb128> sil2100, didrocks: libunity SRU fails verification (i.e the command in the bug still segfaults)
[10:10] <seb128> sil2100, didrocks: otherwise I didn't spot anything weird or regression so far
[10:11] <sil2100> seb128: ouch, thanks - will look into that
[10:25] <didrocks> where is mhr3? :)
[10:25] <didrocks> seb128: thanks for keeping us up to date
[10:25] <seb128> didrocks, yw
[12:30] <chrisccoulson> hah, awesome - https://github.com/alevchuk/vim-clutch
[12:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, lol
[12:41] <pitti> haha, great
[12:46] <Chipaca> hey guys. I just realized twinkle (the only sip telephony client that worked for long calls) is no longer in the archive. Any idea why?
[12:47] <jpds> Chipaca: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/twinkle/+publishinghistory
[12:48] <Chipaca> crumbs
[12:48] <Chipaca> jpds: any recommended replacement?
[12:48] <jpds> Chipaca: Do you have an Android phone?
[12:48] <Chipaca> jpds: i do
[12:48] <jpds> Chipaca: It probably has built-in SIP capabilities.
[12:49] <Chipaca> jpds: it does
[12:49]  * Chipaca sets it up
[12:49] <jpds> That's what I've been using for months.
[12:49] <Chipaca> it does feel a lot like not winning
[12:49] <jpds> Chipaca: Feel free to call me if you want to test.
[12:50] <Chipaca> jpds: i've got a conf call starting 4 minutes ago, i'll test 'live'
[12:54] <Chipaca> jpds: how do i actually initiate a call over sip?
[12:55] <jpds> Chipaca: Dial the number, and it'll give you the option to go via GSM/VOIP.
[12:55] <Chipaca> jpds: nope, just skype vs phone
[12:56] <jpds> Chipaca: Select phone and then the option might appear?
[12:56] <Chipaca> ah, 'ask for each call' i guess is needed
[12:56] <Chipaca> \o/
[12:56] <Chipaca> jpds: thanks a ton
[12:57] <jpds> Chipaca: Anytime.
[13:05]  * mpt wonders why we let people opt in to backports while opting out of security updates
[13:06] <mpt> ... or opt in to -proposed updates while opting out of recommended updates ...
[13:09] <ogra_> -proposed is for testing, packages *can* be broken in there
[13:09] <mpt> yes
[13:09] <ogra_> preferably users should only enable it when asked to test a fix
[13:09] <mpt> I'm tempted to kick -proposed out of the GUI altogether
[13:09] <mpt> but probably won't
[13:09] <ogra_> that will make testing harder though
[13:09] <mpt> It's a beta-testing checkbox
[13:10] <ogra_> but the text should be rephrased :)
[13:10] <seb128> mpt, we maybe need an separate package for "contributors"
[13:10] <ogra_> "test fixes" or some such would make more clear what it does
[13:11] <seb128> mpt, i.e ask those people to install a package which has a dialog which gives the option for stuff like proposed, dbgsym, popcon, etc
[13:11] <mpt> seb128, like the indicator replacement for launchpad-integration ... as well as easily reporting bugs etc, you could easily opt in to -proposed updates
[13:11] <mpt> ooh yes, dbgsym too
[13:11] <seb128> mpt, right
[13:11] <seb128> mpt, like a power users set ;-)
[13:11] <ogra_> ++
[13:12] <seb128> sort of ubuntu-tweaks in spirit
[13:12] <popey> and allow bug reporting in the non-dev release
[13:12] <mpt> And maybe even pre-release versions could ship it by default, while release versions don't
[13:12] <seb128> right
[13:12] <mlankhorst> for some reason -security wasn't able by default here :s
[13:12] <seb128> mlankhorst, how did you install?
[13:12] <popey> i see a number of expert people complain that whoopsie makes it _harder_ for them to file real bugs and not error reports
[13:12] <kenvandine> that's a great idea
[13:12] <mpt> mlankhorst, for any setting that exists, some percentage of users will twiddle it by mistake :-)
[13:13] <mlankhorst> mpt: which is why defaults should be sane
[13:13] <mlankhorst> :P
[13:13] <mpt> popey, yeah, I've mentioned to ev the idea of a "contributor mode" for whoopsie
[13:13] <mpt> mlankhorst, defaults are irrelevant to that problem
[13:13] <mpt> (though, yes, defaults should be sane)
[13:13] <seb128> mlankhorst, well, if security was not enabled for you that's a bug
[13:14] <mpt> mlankhorst, oh, I misunderstood you. You think it was off by default. I'm guessing it was on by default but got twiddled off by mistake.
[13:15] <mpt> hm
[13:15] <mpt> Is there an easy way to see the complete list of -backports that have been issued for, say, Ubuntu 11.10?
[13:16] <mpt> Found it: http://packages.ubuntu.com/oneiric-backports/allpackages
[13:17] <dpm> kenvandine, cool, yeah, I had to change the permissions to let you edit pages on d.u.c, you should be good to go now. I've been doing some edits to the tutorial and I've just tested the SRU from -proposed, which seems to be working well :)
[13:17] <kenvandine> woot
[13:17] <kenvandine> i am adding an introduction now
[13:18] <kenvandine> and will add a comment about the version required
[13:18] <kenvandine> anything else you see that it needs?
[13:20] <mlankhorst> mpt: not 100% sure, I think the install was choking on something which caused me to have to do some custom install, but can't remember exactly. Might also have been due to debootstrap not enabling anything but main :s
[13:24] <dpm> kenvandine, yes, the exact list of packages that need to be installed. Also something else, but rather a topic for discussion. Right now the advanced example is about modifying a gedit plugin, which will require people to install it, modify it, etc. This is not something every new developer can do. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be easier find an easier step-by-step example. Or at least put all the detailed steps on how to download, install and modify t
[13:24] <dpm> he gedit plugin
[13:25] <kenvandine> dpm, yeah... well i tried to find an app that people likely already have
[13:25] <kenvandine> but could find one that was python already that made sense to add sharing
[13:25] <kenvandine> although the gedit plugin is really simple to install and edit
[13:26] <kenvandine> i guess i should mention where to put the file
[13:28] <dpm> yes, the idea of those tutorials is that developers don't need to figure out stuff for themselves. I'm wondering if it would make sense to create a small quickly app and embed the gwibber widget to it
[13:32] <kenvandine> dpm,  the simple example might serve that purpose
[13:33] <kenvandine> the gedit example was to add the functionality to something that already exists
[13:33] <kenvandine> dpm, however... after the app challenge we could probably take one of the apps from the challenge and put it into the tutorial :)
[13:45] <dpm> kenvandine, sure, it's a good idea :), but let's concentrate on finishing what we've got now. Let's go for the Gedit plugin for now. If you could add the note about -proposed, the list of packages required to install and add the detailed steps to edit and install the plugin, I think we should be good to go and publish the tutorial tomorrow
[13:46] <kenvandine> can we publish it today?
[13:46] <kenvandine> i've been getting people asking for it over twitter :)
[13:47] <kenvandine> dpm, ^^
[13:48] <dpm> kenvandine, absolutely! I've been editing so that it's ready and only the final content needs to be added, so once you've added that content, we're good to go
[13:48] <kenvandine> almost done :)
[13:49] <dpm> excellent :)
[13:56] <kenvandine> dpm, can you take a look at it now?
[13:56] <pitti> mterry: many thanks for the codespeak-lib fix!
[13:57] <jbicha_> Sweetshark: are you waiting to upload LO 3.5.4 to quantal until after the sru gets figured out?
[13:57] <mterry> pitti, yw!
[13:57] <pitti> mterry: jibel just enabled XS-Testsuite parsing in jenkins today, so this should actually appear soon
[13:57] <mterry> pitti, fun to play with new DEPs
[13:57] <jbicha_> I'm asking because libreoffice-evolution is uninstallable until it gets rebuilt against e-d-s
[13:57] <seb128> jbicha_, we are aiming to get 3.6 beta1 to quantal, not 3.5
[13:57] <jbicha_> oh ok
[13:57] <seb128> jbicha_, but that's pending getting libreoffice to build on the q toolchain
[13:58] <dpm> kenvandine, looking...
[14:01] <Sweetshark> jbicha_: Im going directly for 3.6.x for quantal
[14:03] <kenvandine> dpm, and don't forget about the category
[14:03] <dpm> kenvandine, looking good, I need to run for lunch, but I'll come back to it later. In the meantime, do you think you could put bzr and pastebinit in the requirements section?
[14:03] <dpm> kenvandine, good point, I'll make sure I create the social networking category
[14:04] <kenvandine> maybe not bzr... isn't that already assumed for this audience?
[14:04] <dpm> kenvandine, assume the audience knows nothing if they are new developers
[14:05] <kenvandine> dpm, done
[14:05] <kenvandine> enjoy your lunch :)
[14:05] <dpm> so for example rather than 'do a checkout', I'd put the exact step: 'Check out the code with bzr branch lp:gedit-pastebinit' and so and so
[14:06] <dpm> Anyway, let's have a chat later on, thanks ;)
[14:06] <kelemengabor> pitti: hi, got some time for Precise language packs? I have just updated them from the PPA, this time they are there :)
[14:13] <pitti> kelemengabor: running copy to -proposed
[14:13] <kelemengabor> thanks!
[14:13] <pitti> hm, still complains a lot about "no newer version"
[14:24] <pitti> kelemengabor: ah, there are only updates for some languages; I'll copy thhem
[14:31] <kelemengabor> pitti: no idea why is that. I just saw that the few languages I have installed were updated (da, de, fi, en, es, fr, hu, sl)
[14:54] <seb128> dobey, hey, do you plan to SRU to precise some of the ubuntu-sso-client bugs fixed recently in quantal?
[15:00] <dobey> seb128: yes
[15:00] <seb128> dobey, great, thanks
[15:09] <tremolux> didrocks: hello! here's that MP from Bilal for the Precise SRU fix for Unity integration stuff we talked about the other day: https://code.launchpad.net/~bilalakhtar/unity/5.0series-sru-software-center-integration-fixes/+merge/110214
[15:10] <tremolux> didrocks: do you think this can be reviewed and merged for the next Unity SRU?
[15:10] <didrocks> hey tremolux :)
[15:10] <didrocks> tremolux: does it have tests?
[15:11] <tremolux> heyo didrocks!
[15:11] <didrocks> tremolux: last time I checked, it didn't
[15:11] <didrocks> and I asked by email and on the MR to have some :)
[15:11] <didrocks> especiallly as this thing seems fragile and breaking a lot
[15:11] <didrocks> I think I talked to mvo about it
[15:12] <tremolux> didrocks: oh, there's no mention in this MP about needing tests, I think there is a branch targeted for Q where it's mentioned maybe?
[15:12] <didrocks> tremolux: right, the rule for Q and P are the same :)
[15:13] <cyphermox> seb128: so for vino; seems like the actual text stuff has not shown up in a long while AFAICT, but the url test is still being done...
[15:13] <seb128> cyphermox, can we drop that?
[15:13] <cyphermox> yeah
[15:13] <seb128> cyphermox, thanks
[15:13] <tremolux> didrocks: ok, this one needs a comment about what is still required, do you mind adding that?
[15:13] <cyphermox> I'll figure out how to get rid of it for good
[15:13] <tremolux> didrocks: just so we define exactly what is expected
[15:14] <didrocks> tremolux: ok
[15:14] <tremolux> didrocks: the crucial point is that I have a corresponding branch on the software-center side that fixes 5 high-target bugs with this feature
[15:15] <tremolux> didrocks: thanks!! I appreciate your help, as always
[15:15] <tremolux> didrocks: including purchased items not being added to the launcher, uninstalled items not being removed from the launcher as the two biggest ones
[15:15]  * didrocks commented :)
[15:15] <didrocks> tremolux: you're really welcomed ;)
[15:15] <tremolux> didrocks: :)
[15:16] <didrocks> tremolux: nice!
[15:16] <didrocks> can't wait to get it
[15:16] <tremolux> haha, me too!!
[15:16] <didrocks> but I really mandate tests for it as the test coverage it had seemed to be quite poor :)
[15:17] <didrocks> sil2100: btw, you probably want to track this ^
[15:17] <tremolux> didrocks: right, the regressions of the basic operation of the feature came right at the end of the cycle, ideally tests would have caught that
[15:17] <didrocks> yep
[15:18] <didrocks> there are some tests, I was thinking they were stronger
[15:19] <tremolux> didrocks: my fix removes a great deal of the responsibility on the launcher side of things by adding the item at the very end of the install of the package, but the spec (and good usability) really want the dbus event to the launcher (and so the animation and adding) to happen right at the very start
[15:20] <tremolux> didrocks: this will require that bug #1011681 be fixed
[15:20] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1011681 in unity "Have Unity monitor and react to all installation events" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1011681
[15:20] <didrocks> waow
[15:20] <didrocks> let's see how it goes
[15:20] <didrocks> but I still find this feature dangerous
[15:21] <didrocks> it created a lot of bugs
[15:21] <tremolux> didrocks: will, we've had the feature for many releases already actually
[15:21] <tremolux> didrocks: without bugs
[15:21] <didrocks> one of them being that it screwed the display on some card :/
[15:21] <didrocks> yeah, without the flying icon
[15:21] <tremolux> didrocks: this cycle is where all the problems happened
[15:21] <didrocks> I remember, I did the unity side before this cycle :)
[15:21] <tremolux> didrocks: yes, indeed, I remember
[15:23] <tremolux> didrocks: I think bilal did a lot of it before too, no?
[15:23] <didrocks> tremolux: hum, I don't remember, maybe the progress icon (I was thinking it was this cycle)
[15:23] <tremolux> didrocks: it was the adding of the animation and the showing of progress this cycle, but both of those worked quite nicely earlier in the cycle and then broke at the end
[15:24] <tremolux> didrocks: with the exception of the display issue, of course!  :)
[15:24] <didrocks> indeed :)
[15:24] <didrocks> but it showed by then that the tests were not enough though :/
[15:24] <tremolux> didrocks: yes
[15:26] <tremolux> didrocks: but to be fair, tests can always be improved/iterated, it's ongoing, but for this specific feature we now know better what we need them to check for sure
[15:27] <didrocks> tremolux: indeed, hence the fact it's time to fix it and add the new tests before getting anything landing :)
[15:27] <cyphermox> seb128: popey: so the intent is that the message was disabled upstream because it wasn't checking ipv6, thus misleading people into thinking that their machine is not reachable from outside when it could be reachable using IPv6; it's just that it's been disabled "wrong", only updating the message was disabled, not doing the check altogether
[15:27] <tremolux> didrocks: oops, I have a meeting in 3, gotta run, thanks again and talk to you soon eh!
[15:28] <didrocks> tremolux: talk to you soon!
[15:28] <seb128> cyphermox, ok, seems an easy fix then?
[15:28] <cyphermox> yup yup
[15:28] <cyphermox> shuffling code around, will upload in a minute
[15:28] <seb128> excellent
[15:29] <seb128> cyphermox, can you SRU it as well for precise?
[15:29] <cyphermox> yes
[16:27] <tremolux> seb128: hello! we have had two reports not of a weird graphical corruption in the Software Center toolbar on Quantal, I wondered if you had any ideas about this or heard about it with other applications? it is bug 1015216
[16:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015216 in software-center "Graphical corruption in software center" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015216
[16:27] <tremolux> two reports *now*
[16:27] <tremolux> seb128: there is a screenshot there
[16:27] <tremolux> seb128: I can't repro this one
[16:29] <tremolux> ah, I shouldn't have pinged seb128 directly, do any of you awesome desktoppers have an idea about this one?
[16:35] <seb128> tremolux, hey
[16:35] <tremolux> hi seb128!
[16:35] <seb128> tremolux, is that specific to quantal?
[16:36] <tremolux> seb128: yes
[16:36] <tremolux> seb128: only two reports of it so far, both Q
[16:36] <seb128> tremolux, it's probably not a s-c issue, seems rather video drivers, cairo, gtk...
[16:36] <tremolux> seb128: right
[16:37] <tremolux> seb128: I was wondering if this is showing up in other apps, or is known at this point?
[16:37] <seb128> tremolux, I've seen not report of that issue so far and it's not know afaik
[16:38] <tremolux> seb128: ok, thanks! But it's good, it's on our radar now, I'll track this issue for Software Center
[16:39] <seb128> tremolux, having a testcase would be useful ... is the toolbar stock gtk or do you hack it in some way?
[16:39] <tremolux> seb128: it's a custom widget  :/
[16:39] <seb128> tremolux, that might explain why it's happening only there
[16:40] <seb128> tremolux, if you could get that down to a testcase or have one of the s-c tests showing the issue it would be good
[16:40] <tremolux> seb128: indeed, yes, I can't repro on my machine which is why I wonder if it's a hardware-specific sort of issue
[16:40] <tremolux> seb128: drivers, etc.
[16:41] <tremolux> seb128: I'll try to collect more info
[16:41] <popey> tremolux, cant reproduce here on ATI or intel
[16:41] <tremolux> popey: thanks! ok, good to know
[16:43] <tremolux> seb128: the dupe bug 1015986 mentions some interaction with other apps
[16:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015986 in software-center "text/icon corruption when running software center (dup-of: 1015216)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015986
[16:43] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1015216 in software-center "Graphical corruption in software center" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1015216
[16:43] <tremolux> "I'm not sure that this is actually a bug on software-center; but it certainly seems to be worst affected and triggers a similar issue in xchat-gnome and the apport-bug collection window."
[16:44] <tremolux> seb128: thanks again, I'll try to get more info and meanwhile you know about it too in case it pops up in other places :)
[16:44] <Laney> I got something like that the other day on a terminal
[16:45] <tremolux> Laney: do you see it in Software Center? just mouse over one of the toolbar icons
[16:46] <Laney> tremolux: can't tell you now, not on a Quantal machine
[16:46] <tremolux> Laney: ah, ok! :)
[16:46] <Laney> but it was intermittent when I saw it, ie it came and went
[16:46] <Laney> I'll have a look in a bit
[16:46] <tremolux> Laney: thanks!
[16:46] <Laney> someone else posted a screenshot in here of something similar too
[16:53] <Laney> ah, it was hrw in #ubuntu-devel
[16:54] <Laney> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/~hrw/shots/bad-fonts.jpg
[16:54] <Laney> that looks like what I get when it happens
[16:54] <Laney> tremolux: seb128:
[16:54] <tremolux> Laney: woahh
[16:55] <Laney> not sure if that could be part of the same problem
[16:56] <tremolux> Laney: I see him over there, I'll ask if he might check Software Center for me..thanks!!
[16:57] <Laney> groovy
[16:57] <tremolux> :)
[16:57] <Laney> but like I said it's intermittent so maybe you won't see it this time
[16:57] <Laney> mlankhorst: ^ do you think this kind of thing would be likely to be a driver issue?
[16:58] <mlankhorst> Laney: quantal?
[16:58] <Laney> yeah
[16:58] <mlankhorst> probably, what video card do you have?
[16:59] <Laney> 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Radeon X1950 GT (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
[16:59] <Laney> dunno what hrw has
[16:59] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/1015216 has
[16:59] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1015216 in software-center "Graphical corruption in software center" [Low,Confirmed]
[16:59] <seb128> 00:01.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] nee ATI Wrestler [Radeon HD 6310] [1002:9802] (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
[16:59] <mlankhorst> so amd
[17:00] <mlankhorst> binary drivers or open source?
[17:00] <Laney> free ones
[17:02] <mlankhorst> not sure if they've been updated yet, you could try the debian sid ones which are almost identical. :)
[17:03] <Sarvatt> oh ati hasnt been updated in quantal to work with cairo 1.12 yet
[17:03] <mlankhorst> would probably need to rebuild them since they use x1.12
[17:03] <mlankhorst> Sarvatt: yeah thought so
[17:03] <Laney> http://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xserver-xorg-video-ati.html ?
[17:03] <mlankhorst> Laney: should work
[17:04] <Laney> but it has a lower version than ours?
[17:04] <Sarvatt> yeah we're going to have to do a git checkout, they version it weird
[17:04] <Sarvatt> master is 6.14.99, they lower the version, release, raise it back to .99 every time
[17:04] <mlankhorst> oh that explain :)
[17:04] <Laney> sounds totally logical and sane
[17:05]  * Laney starts a build
[17:05] <mlankhorst> I just knew it wasn't lower due to having worked with the x git tree directly
[17:07] <mlankhorst> oh btw anyone here affected by https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/966744 ?
[17:07] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 966744 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "Resume from suspend leaves me with black screen or a screen of the desktop before it suspended (though the mouse still moves/changes cursor)" [Critical,Incomplete]
[17:07] <mlankhorst> I need a test subject/victim :P
[17:07] <Laney> the bug reporter?
[17:14] <mlankhorst> I may have found the same bug today independently, when valgrinding Xorg suspend/resume for unrelated bug.
[17:58] <seb128> mlankhorst, Laney, tremolux: <hrw> seb128: radeon 5430 with open driver
[17:58] <seb128> so that's 3 ati users
[17:58] <Laney> ack
[17:58] <Laney> i'm testing the debian drivers now, will report if i do see it
[18:00] <mlankhorst> seb128: no surprises there, all open source drivers didn't handle it right
[18:02] <mlankhorst> nouveau had the same problems, made worse by abi bump :)
[18:03] <mlankhorst> Laney: ping me then, im gone for biking
[18:03] <Laney> i don't know how to trigger it
[18:03] <Laney> so if I /do not/ ping you then assume all is well :-)
[18:05] <mlankhorst> sure
[18:12] <Laney> mlankhorst: hrw says it fixes it for him, and he could reproduce easier than me
[18:52] <mlankhorst> Laney: kk perfect
[18:54]  * Laney looks forward to a new upload :-)
[18:54] <mlankhorst> I'll ask if we can upload ati early
[18:56] <seb128> jdstrand, mdeslaur: hey, is apparmor known to be an issue for nfs users? do they need to weak config? e.g bug #1016103
[18:56] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1016103 in evince "evince unable to save changes to toolbar" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016103
[19:07] <jdstrand> seb128: nfs should not be a problem. this seems like the user just needs to update /etc/apparmor.d/tunables/home.d/ubuntu
[19:07] <jdstrand> seb128: eg '@{HOMEDIRS}+=/homes/'
[19:07] <seb128> jdstrand, is that a faq, or described somewhere? I didn't see nfs mentioned on https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
[19:08] <jdstrand> seb128: it isn't in a faq cause nfs isn't a problem like with selinux ;)
[19:08] <jdstrand> there is something on the tunable though
[19:08]  * jdstrand fetches
[19:08] <seb128> jdstrand, well if users need to edit their etc config that seems like a faq topic? ;-)
[19:10] <seb128> jdstrand, I don't know enough about apparmor, but is there any way we could print on stdout some warning when apparmor block something for the running app?
[19:10] <jdstrand> seb128: awell, postinst has logic to detect nonstandard homes
[19:11] <jdstrand> seb128: re reporting> not really, the kernel is just giving back EACCESS or similar. the application will usually complain about that, but doesn't know why it was denied access. we do have apparmor-notify which uses notify-osd to display errors
[19:12] <jdstrand> the problem with that is the usability issues-- we don't want to be fedora with a dialog always asking to allow or deny something
[19:12] <seb128> right
[19:12] <jdstrand> we try to make the profiles work out of the box
[19:12] <seb128> yeah, and they usually do
[19:12] <seb128> so is this user having a non usual setup? or do nfs users need to do some config tweaks?
[19:12] <jdstrand> I know there is something on the tunables somewhere...
[19:13] <jdstrand> seb128: this user's HOME is /homes/dhe (as opposed to /home/dhe)
[19:13] <seb128> oh
[19:13] <jdstrand> it isn't nfs, it is an unusual location for HOME
[19:13] <jdstrand> homes vs home
[19:14] <seb128> I don't know enough about nfs to know the naming convention for home dirs on NFS ;-)
[19:14] <jdstrand> well, there is none :)
[19:14] <jdstrand> so we can't be too smart
[19:14] <jdstrand> we try to detect it, but it doesn't always work depending on when the user was added
[19:15] <seb128> I wonder if we could be a bit naggy about "your userdir doesn't follow the convention, it might create issues"
[19:15] <jdstrand> (the tunable is preseedable though)
[19:15] <seb128> like display a notification once on first login for such users
[19:15] <seb128> if we know it's a setup that will confuse apparmor
[19:16] <jdstrand> maybe. it is an unusual setup though- we rarely see these bugs any more after implemeting the debconf option and tunables/home.d
[19:17] <jdstrand> I think I saw this... 3 times in the last year?
[19:17] <jdstrand> I'm not opposed to be smarter about it-- I'm just not sure the best way
[19:18] <jdstrand> seb128: aha, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor#Adjusting_Tunables
[19:18] <jdstrand> seb128: not exactly the most discoverable location
[19:19] <seb128> jdstrand, I've little visiblity on how frequent it is but if that's a rare corner case I'm fine just replying to the bug with a link to the wiki you pointed, thanks
[19:21] <jdstrand> seb128: it was a big concern of mine for a while, then I implemented that and just haven't seen it often enough where it bothered me. people seem to recognize they if they are doing something non-standard, then they might have to tweak things here and there
[19:21] <jdstrand> between preseeding and the postinst detection on install, it mostly covered things
[19:22] <seb128> jdstrand, that makes sense, I guess the issue there is to find the way to the documentation
[19:22] <jdstrand> seb128: yes-- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingApparmor is linked off https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor, but at the bottom
[19:23] <jdstrand> I'm open to suggestions on where to put it...
[19:23] <seb128> jdstrand, I was not looking for "debugging", but for "faq" ;-)
[19:23] <jdstrand> ideally it would be wherever the documentation is for chaning ones HOME
[19:23] <seb128> jdstrand, like users look for common,known issues, not for how to debug
[19:23] <jdstrand> heh
[19:24] <jdstrand> seb128: I'll add something to the FAQ section of https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AppArmor
[19:24] <seb128> jdstrand, thanks
[19:25] <jdstrand> np
[19:44] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey
[20:03] <seb128> Sweetshark, libreoffice 3.5.4 SRU finally accepted after much SRU team nagging!
[20:24]  * kenvandine thinks it's awesome having seb128 pulling .1 duty :)
[20:24] <seb128> kenvandine, ;-)
[22:32]  * Sweetshark gives seb128 a hug in absence.
[23:39] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, feel like doing a quick SRU?
[23:40] <robert_ancell> This one may be annoying you too: bug 1016292
[23:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1016292 in xchat-gnome "Doesn't return to maximized size when restarted" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1016292
[23:40] <RAOF> Heh, I use smuxi :P
[23:40] <robert_ancell> RAOF, damn, I knew you were going to say something like that!
[23:46] <robert_ancell> RAOF, so, regardless of your irc preferences do you feel like turning the cogs of bureaucracy
[23:47] <RAOF> Yup, just waiting for launchpad to generate the diff for me.
[23:47] <robert_ancell> cheers!
[23:47] <RAOF> Because I am lazy, like a chestnut.
[23:48] <robert_ancell> I've never seen a chestnut do anything significant, so I'll accept that metaphor


[09:14] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths requested a review from RAOF for [pull request #2614](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2614): Fix rendering that spans outputs
[10:05]  * Saviq on a kernel bug (HDMI output unstable) tracking spree this morning…
[10:05] <alan_g[m]> This is on your new fangled kit?
[10:06] <Saviq> Yeah, external monitor goes off and on multiple times a minute
[10:06] <Saviq> Until a kernel upgrade (a big one, 5.15 → 5.19 for some reason) it was maybe once an hour, and I blamed cables / HW. But the fact that kernel influences it, and other seeing it, made me reconsider.
[10:11] <Saviq> *others
[10:44] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2623](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2623): Modernize touch events
[12:44] <Saviq> Yay. So installing 22.10 from a USB stick onto a USB drive still zeroes out the grub configuration on the internal drive. Of course.
[12:44] <Saviq> And of course recovery with a ZFS encrypted setup is trivial. Except not.
[13:21] <alan_g[m]> Saviq, when you need a break from unbreaking your kit, do you want to re-review https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2611?
[13:22] <alan_g[m]> ...and I hope testing my Mir compositing hacks wasn't the trigger for this
[13:33] <Saviq> No no, it was https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1988989
[13:33] <Saviq> And I did unbreak myself already, was just whining
[13:34] <Saviq> I still need to test your two PRs dealing with messed up buffers, together, but will re-review the above first
[13:36] <alan_g[m]> My first PR just awaits blessing by Chris, the second is just a BFI hack to prove we're looking at the right codepath
[13:36] <alan_g[m]> But it might need more F
[13:54] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** AlanGriffiths closed [pull request #2591](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2591): Don't try to calibrate timestamps
[14:25] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2602](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2602): Simplify timestamp calibration
[14:59] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] closed [issue #2607](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2607): Building Mir modifies the logind source
[14:59] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2611](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2611): Fix #2607 modification of logind source
[16:13] <Saviq> sophie so e.g. this is what you would expect to not work?
[16:13] <Saviq> ```
[16:13] <Saviq> env -u WAYLAND_DISPLAY gnome-screenshot
[16:13] <Saviq> ```
[16:14] <Saviq> Seems to work on Mutter on 22.10 at least
[16:14] <Saviq> Unless it then assumes `wayland-0` 🤷♂
[16:14] <sophie-w> I generally set `WAYLAND_DISPLAY=no`, but I don't think gnome-screenshot goes through Wayland at all
[16:14] <alan_g[m]> Saviq `GDK_BACKEND=x11`
[16:15] <sophie-w> I think GNOME has a D-Bus API for screenshots, and that might be why it's working
[16:15] <alan_g[m]> But as Sophie says, it probably uses dbus
[16:15] <Saviq> It does trigger XWayland at least
[16:15] <sophie-w> Try something like `scrot`
[16:15] <Saviq> But yeah doubt it's actually grabbing through X
[16:16] <Saviq> Yeah `scrot`'s all black
[16:16] <sophie-w> (tested again and scrot doesn't work for me on Sway)
[16:21] <alan_g[m]> OK, folks. I was wrong and Sophie was right: I accept it doesn't work
[16:21] <alan_g[m]> (But I still don't care)
[16:22] <sophie-w> I'm glad it wasn't a thing anyone was trying to do in the first place (at least this time around)
[16:26] <Saviq> Ok that's time here o/
[17:01] <alan_g[m]> And time here also o/
[19:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** wmww opened [issue #2624](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/2624): mgx::X11Window::r_mask used uninitialized
[19:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server-
[19:15] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- > It is used, but it is never set. Spotted in Valgrind.
[21:19] <sophie-w> Does anyone know how to make wlcs.asan work? I've tried a bunch of things and haven't made any progress
[21:20] <sophie-w> Or how to run wlcs in valgrind (I'm getting `Valgrind: debuginfo reader: Possibly corrupted debuginfo file.`)
[23:28] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] merged [pull request #2614](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/pull/2614): Fix rendering that spans outputs
[23:29] -GitHub[m]:#mir-server- **[MirServer/mir]** bors[bot] closed [issue #1753](https://github.com/MirServer/mir/issues/1753): Incorrect rendering when a surface spans multiple outputs


[01:54] <Atamira> morning
[02:22] <mwhudson> morning
[02:22]  * mwhudson coughs
[03:21] <Atamira> germs mwhudson?
[18:57] <hads> morning
[19:04] <snail> mōrena
[19:15] <ojwb> morning
[19:33] <ajmitch> morning
[22:26] <ibeardslee> morning
[23:22] <mwhudson> "morning"


[11:01] <fschoep> dholbach: sorry to sound like a broken record :P
[11:01] <dholbach> hehe :)
[11:03] <cypher1_> gtg 3am.. need sleep
[11:03] <cypher1_> bye all
[11:04] <fschoep> dholbach: it's on the mail
[11:07] <roshan_s> fschoep: Thanks for the last-minute Edgy artwork, which you must have produced under great pressure. Because of you, we won't be stuck with the stuff from Dapper especially the messy (imho) wallpaper :)
[11:08] <fschoep> roshan_s: no need to thank me, there's a whole lot of people behind the scenes who worked on this stuff. And dholbach deserves more credit than me here, I think.
[11:08] <fschoep> roshan_s: but, thanks anyway of course :)
[11:08] <dholbach> fschoep: not true - you guys worked HARD on it :)
[11:09] <fschoep> :)
[11:09] <roshan_s> Well, then, thanks to dholbach too, and everyone on ubuntu-art who managed to salvage edgy from the reversion to Dapper artwork...
[11:09] <gnomefreak> we have some edgy artwork now?
[11:10] <fschoep> gnomefreak: yes, kind of - it's still being uploaded :P
[11:10] <BenC> tfheen: ping
[11:10] <tfheen> BenC: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
[11:10] <gnomefreak> cool thank you guys.
[11:10] <fschoep> gnomefreak: you're welcome
[11:10] <BenC> tfheen: I got your content right here :P
[11:11] <BenC> tfheen: bug 62135, I have a fix for i965_dri.so, so that gl actually works for i965 chipsets...just needs i965_dri.so to be compiled with gcc-3.4
[11:11] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 62135 in mesa "Support for Intel 965 (GMA X3000) doesn't work" [High,Confirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/62135
[11:12] <BenC> tfheen: Let me know if you want me to upload this
[11:17] <dholbach> fschoep: good work!
[11:17] <fschoep> dholbach: so at least three people like it :)
[11:17] <fschoep> brb
[11:18] <dholbach> uploaded
[11:19] <dholbach> tfheen, Kamion, mdz, infinity: seb128 and I uploaded: gdm edgy-session-splashes edgy-wallpapers edgy-community-wallpapers - please approve
[11:19] <mdke__> nice work chaps
[11:19] <dholbach> tfheen, Kamion, mdz, infinity: human-icon-theme is still missing, needs Mark's 'ok'.
[11:19] <dholbach> mdke: I'll mail ubuntu-doc@ once it's all in
[11:20] <seb128> mdke: hi, Mr "I want 4 top menu items on the panel" :p
[11:20] <mdke> seb128: hi
[11:20] <mdke> dholbach: thanks, but we don't have any screenshots, so no worries
[11:21] <dholbach> mdke: oh, I'm glad this didn't cause you grieve
[11:22] <fschoep> dholbach: super
[11:23] <dholbach> PHEW :)
[11:23] <fschoep> Can't we just get the icons in though?
[11:23] <dholbach> fschoep: I mailed everybody involved
[11:24] <fschoep> dholbach: I saw that
[11:24] <dholbach> fschoep: if I get an 'ok' mail tomorrow, I'll upload it
[11:24] <fschoep> dholbach: OK, tomorrow is still good then?
[11:24] <dholbach> I suppose so
[11:24] <fschoep> dholbach: Alright, I'm pretty sure there won't be issues
[11:24] <fschoep> dholbach: so, this is it for tonight then?
[11:25] <dholbach> I'm not going to bed now ;)
[11:25] <dholbach> but I call it a day ;)
[11:25] <fschoep> dholbach: OK, thanks so much for your efforts, you're amazing. Everyone here is, cheers!
[11:26] <dholbach> you... most of all
[11:26] <dholbach> have a great weekend!
[11:30] <gnomefreak> dholbach: have a good weekend too
[11:30] <sandrinah> hi all
[11:30] <dholbach> thanks gnomefreak
[11:30] <gnomefreak> yw
[11:32] <gdh> as per https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-bugsquad/2006-October/000092.html I'm here to relate my experiences with the RC ...
[11:32] <gdh> and it's not good. I got stung by https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/64825 - can this be affecting every system in the world with a cheap X300/X600 ATI Radeon ?
[11:32] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 64825 in xorg "Installer won't detect video card Radeon X600" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]
[11:33] <gdh> it chooses 'ati' instead of 'radeon' for xorg :/ - changing to 'radeon' in xorg.conf makes X start + run beautifully
[11:35] <gnomefreak> isnt radeon non-free?
[11:37] <gdh> gnomefreak: if it is, it's on the Live CD.
[11:37] <gdh> fglrx is the ATI-provided binary warez driver
[11:38] <gdh> I'm not at all concerned about 3D performance or games, but I think it's not too much to expect working 2D on a very popular gfx card :)
[11:38] <gnomefreak> ah xserver-xorg-video-ati brings in -radeon
[11:40] <gdh> mconnor: unless it's the first hint of iceweasel? :)
[11:40] <mconnor> gdh: if Martin and Ian are claiming that's the upstream diff, I'm pretty curious about when that was supposed to be
[11:41] <Kamion> which version exactly?
[11:41] <mconnor> they didn't say
[11:42] <Kamion> shouldn't take long to search through all the uploaded .orig.tar.gz files
[11:42] <Kamion> let's see ...
[11:47] <mconnor> I mean, its possible, there's been a few releases where we fixed dozens of security bugs in a single release, largely because our internal security testers are too smart :)
[11:47] <Kamion> $ diff -Nru firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS> | filterdiff -x '*/CVS/*' | wc -l
[11:47] <Kamion> 50621
[11:47] <Kamion> there's one that exceeds that, anyway
[11:47] <Kamion> I have mail from Ian saying that the <IP_ADDRESS> diff was 35000 lines
[11:48] <gdh> bah mumble mumble epiphany mumble mumble :)
[11:49] <Kamion> isn't it usually "security and stability"? that generally seems to be the explanation for the diffs being huge
[11:49] <mconnor> heh, the fixes are to gecko 98% of the time
[11:50] <gdh> ah fair enough.
[11:50] <gdh> Nobody has a Radeon X300 or X600 then?
[11:50] <Kamion> mconnor: $ diff -Nru firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig | filterdiff -x '*/CVS/'* | wc -l
[11:50] <Kamion> 35460
[11:50] <Kamion> so Martin and Ian's figures seem pretty accurate from here
[11:50] <gdh> ouch
[11:51] <Kamion> all the releases have been huge, from what Ian tells me
[11:52] <mconnor> yeah, rollup releases end up with a lot of bugs
[11:52] <Kamion> anyway, I don't know the specifics, but you asked for backup for the cited statistics - there's two pieces of backup
[11:53] <Kamion> the complaint I normally hear is that many of the items in the rollup releases are not just security bugs
[11:53] <Kamion> I haven't investigated that personally, so that's second-hand
[11:53] <Kamion> I know Ian generally analyses the diffs as best he can
[11:54] <Kamion> (which I'm sure he'd be the first to say is to a limited extent)
[11:54] <mconnor> heh
[11:54] <mconnor> ah, I see
[11:55] <mconnor> <IP_ADDRESS> had a large set of changes to support Intel macs, but most of that code isn't built for Linux
[11:55] <Kamion> <IP_ADDRESS> was small
[11:55] <Kamion> $ diff -Nru firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig | filterdiff -x '*/CVS/'* | wc -l
[11:55] <Kamion> 184
[11:55] <Kamion> $ diff -Nru firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig firefox-1.5.dfsg+<IP_ADDRESS>.orig | filterdiff -x '*/CVS/'* | wc -l
[11:55] <Kamion> 27462
[11:55] <Kamion> another biggie
[11:55] <mconnor> there was a few endian fixes in there too, that would have helped Linux
[11:55] <Kamion> it's the big ones people remember
[11:56] <Evaso2> any fix with the bug of pci-express ati bug seems that is very common: 35601
[11:56] <Kamion> Intel Macs> see, that's exactly the sort of code we normally don't let into our -security branches ;-)
[11:56] <Kamion> firefox is the only product we have to make an exception for there
[11:57] <mconnor> except that you don't build that code, unless you're building for Mac :)
[11:57] <mconnor> but that was a one-time thing
[11:57] <Kamion> ... as far as we know. Not knowing the build system, we can't prove that to our own satisfactions
[11:57] <mconnor> I guess the windows changes to support Vista will be the same...
[11:57] <mconnor> Kamion: its all about trust!
[11:57] <mconnor> though I could give crash courses ;)
[11:57] <Kamion> it's not a one-time thing, if new hardware support is something you routinely import
[11:58] <Kamion> right, our users trust us to keep our changes in -security minimal ...
[11:58] <mconnor> its not
[11:58] <Kamion> people use distributions because they want somebody to do the integration for them, which involves a transferral of trust
[11:59] <mconnor> so does -security not allow for crash fixes?
[11:59] <Kamion> depends on the crash. if it's simply data-loss, that would normally go to -updates
[11:59] <Kamion> as far as possible, -security means what it says
[12:00] <Kamion> but sure, if it's a potentially exploitable crash then that can/should go to -security
[12:00] <Kamion> one of our problems is that -security is a fast-path to users' desktops
[12:00] <mconnor> we consider all crashes exploitable unless proven otherwise
[12:00] <Kamion> (obviously that's not *normally* a problem)
[12:01] <gdh> :) Wow, I suddenly see my work life appear...
[12:01] <Kamion> the reason we demand auditing for all -security uploads is that once it leaves the developer's hands, it lands on users' desktops as fast as we can humanly manage it and there's very little opportunity to stop it if it turns out to be bad
[12:01] <gdh> oddly, *everything* is 'urgent' there...
[12:01] <gdh> everyone's 'issue' is priority 1
[12:02] <gdh> thus defeating the point of priorities <slump>
[12:02] <mconnor> gdh: imagine trying to prioritize features for Firefox! :)
[12:02] <Kamion> the recent xorg breakage in -updates made us much more cautious about fixes there, so we now have a process involving sending stuff via -proposed for a trial period
[12:02] <Kamion> but we can't do that for -security
[12:02] <gdh> ZOMG flash player should be compiled in statically  (yawn) and so on
[12:03] <Kamion> crashes exploitable unless proven otherwise> I agree, very sensible
[12:03] <Kamion> firefox is on a security boundary though, which is not the case for everything (from our point of view)
[12:04] <mconnor> yeah, web browsers are the best target these days, now that every mail client in the world is locked down and virus/spamfiltered to death :)
[12:05] <ajmitch> morning all
[12:05] <Kamion> (and yet evolution still crashes every five minutes or if you breathe in its direction too hard ...)
[12:06] <mconnor> funny, I was never able use evolution for more than five minutes at a time, but that was just because I couldn't stand it :)
[12:07] <mconnor> one of the gecko guys is like that too
[12:07] <_ion> mutt
[12:07] <mconnor> I'm, uh, using mail.app
[12:07] <_ion> Although it has its fair share of flaws.
[12:07] <Kamion> I'd expect Mozilla is a rather biased camp as far as MUA choice goes?


[00:33] <kees> mvo: say, I was just doing a gutsy->hardy upgrade (in kvm) and didn't have enough disk space.  each time I made enough room, the next run of update-manager claimed to need more space than before.  I've since started tracking the log output, and I'll file a bug report for it, but was curious if you'd seen anything like that before?
[00:35] <mvo> kees: no, suprisingly little bugreport from the space calculator (I guess everybody has 750gb hdds there days :P) - how much do you free? is that a complicated setup with lots of partions?
[00:36] <kees> mvo: nope, just 1 partition for everything.  I think the issue is that it aborts immediately, rather than finishing all the calculations?
[00:36] <mvo> kees: that sounds plausible
[00:38] <kees> mvo: yeah, that seems to be it.  in the fail-cases, it would examine /var/cache/... then /usr and fail with an ever-growing "need" value.  in the final success case checks /var/cache/..., /usr, /usr again (?), /boot, and /
[00:39] <mvo> kees: right, makes sense. please file a bug and tag it later, I will try to attack it early. or do you think we should fix it for hardy?
[00:39] <mvo> kees: it checks /usr twice for simplicity reasons (once for real, once with some safety buffer)
[00:40] <kees> mvo: it's not a show-stopper, but it was a bit of a head-scratcher.  "what? you need MORE space now?" after I cleaned up how much it wanted.  ;)
[00:40] <kees> I'll tag it later.  :)
[00:41] <mvo> kees: ok, I'm too tired to look into it now, but if its a one-liner patch, we can try to sneak it past
[00:41] <kees> mvo: sure, no problem.  I wasn't actually expecting you to answer right now.  :)
[00:42] <mvo> kees: still some loose ends that needs attention here and there, but I should go to bed soonish
[01:34] <crimsun> asac: I believe https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/hardy/+source/libflashsupport/+bug/192888/comments/75 addresses your rationale question.
[01:46] <Caesar> Umm, so it seems that update-manager-core is at 1:0.87.21 but update-manager is at 1:0.87.18
[01:46] <Caesar> How does that even happen?
[01:46]  * Caesar pokes at Launchpad
[01:47] <slangasek> Caesar: 1) upload 500 arch: all langpacks for rebuild, swamping the i386 buildd; 2) upload update-manager, which builds arch: any and arch: all packages; 3) run amd64
[01:48] <Caesar> That'll do it
[01:49] <Caesar> slangasek: packages will go in with unmet dependencies post-build though?
[01:50] <slangasek> yes
[01:50] <slangasek> there's no check for installability at binary accept time
[01:51] <Caesar> slangasek: that seems like a bug to me
[01:52] <slangasek> well, enforcing installability at binary accept time would be a good way to deadlock development
[01:52] <Fujitsu> It'd make transitions completely impossible.
[01:52] <slangasek> it's annoying that we have langpacks ahead of update-manager in the build queue, and that's certainly a bug
[01:55] <slangasek> (doubly annoying that it's been done right after RC, so people are going to see partial-upgrade issues until it clears)
[01:56] <Caesar> We were just questioning the whole point of a RC that then subsequently gets upgraded
[01:56] <Caesar> It makes all milestones very ephemeral
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Aren't langpacks meant to be built on PPAs.
[01:56] <Fujitsu> *?
[01:56] <Fujitsu> Caesar: You haven't seen an RC that isn't an RC until you've seen MPlayer RCs.
[01:57] <slangasek> Fujitsu: langpacks are part of the archive, so no?
[01:57] <Fujitsu> slangasek: They're built in PPAs and binary-copied for every other release - why not Hardy?
[01:57] <slangasek> they are?
[01:57] <Fujitsu> They are.
[01:57] <Fujitsu> Or we'd be utterly screwed.
[01:58] <Caesar> Fujitsu: but a RC for a single piece of software is versioned and static, whereas a milestone for Ubuntu is only current until someone makes an upload, or you don't point it at an external repository
[01:58] <slangasek> Fujitsu: well, this must be a fairly new innovation, seeing how PPAs have only been around for about a release cycle
[01:59] <Fujitsu> slangasek: Correct.
[01:59] <Caesar> slangasek: could the building of arch: all packages be load-balanced across all architecture buildds?
[02:00] <Fujitsu> I think you just gave cprov a heart attack.
[02:02] <slangasek> Caesar: in theory it could; you would basically have to set up a whole set of secondary queues though, to tell the buildds whether or not they're expected to build with -B or -b
[02:02] <slangasek> Caesar: and then you have the fun of finding out at random which arch: all packages are only buildable on i386
[02:02] <Caesar> slangasek: that'd help flush out some bugs wouldn't it?
[02:04] <slangasek> nah, it would just cause more build failures of the sort plaguing openhackware; there are packages that need to build as arch: all, but simply require a toolchain for one particular arch to do their building
[02:04] <slangasek> and up to now, it's been safe to assume that this will work when that "one particular arch" is i386
[02:06] <slangasek> anyway - it wouldn't be impossible to load balance them better, but giving langpacks a lower build priority would seem to address the issue more directly
[02:07] <slangasek> since it's the only thing we have that causes a batch of arch: all packages to flood the buildds and cause vastly disparate times-to-build between different archs
[02:09] <Fujitsu> Except for the initial autosync, but only a few people use it in the first couple of weeks of the cycle.
[02:09] <slangasek> sure
[02:40] <nxvl> bdmurray: around?
[02:50] <TheMuso> crimsun: I thought pulseaudio_dmix == bad;
[02:50] <TheMuso> s/pulseaudio_dmix/pulseaudio + dmix/
[04:24] <bdmurray> nxvl: I am now
[04:38] <crimsun> TheMuso: well, yes, it certainly isn't optimal.  However, is having it grab the raw hardware worth the regressions?
[04:39] <TheMuso> crimsun: Thats what I've started thinking lately myself.
[04:55] <lamont> interestingly, hardy does _OK_ on a P2-233 with 192MB of RAMand a 6GB HDD
[04:55] <jdong> lamont: not too surprised
[04:55] <jdong> I'm playing FreeBSD BDSM right now
[04:55] <jdong> with a 48MiB RAM VM
[04:55] <lamont> it's the print server for the house
[05:21] <tuntun> Why on earth do I have do a search for file 'foo' before I get the chance to configure the search?!?!
[05:28] <tuntun> Main-menu > Accessories > Tracker-Search-Tool   ...Who the hell thought that It would be a good idea to only let the user configure the search after having done a first search?!?!
[05:30] <beuno> why am I seing double?
[05:34] <tuntun> Main-menu > Accessories > Tracker-Search-Tool   ...Oh great... And it it only searches within the home dir...without even telling you!!! This is turning into a farce...
[05:38]  * lamont looks around for someone who loves hacking on compiz
[05:51]  * lamont is reminded of just how thoroughly he hates quilt and all of its ilk
[08:49] <salty-horse> bryce, here?
[11:40] <jpatrick> elmo: I think a bit got cut off at the end
[11:49] <elmo> jpatrick: it did, but my bit is at the front ;-)
[11:49] <elmo> jpatrick: I'll restore the end when I take it out
[12:19] <Idan> Hey all, God a question about version numbers... If I recall correctly older version of Ubuntu (5.04, 5.10) wouldn't change the version numbers of software after release, I noticed that in 7.10 (can't remember other ones), the version numbers did change, for example Firefox 2.0.x
[12:19] <Idan> God=Got
[12:20] <Idan> Anyone here?
[12:21] <jpatrick> elmo: yes, yours is far more important ;)
[12:21] <Fujitsu> Idan: In very few circumstances will new versions be uploaded.
[12:21] <Fujitsu> Firefox is one of those.
[12:30] <asac> crimsun: so if i understand this correct, this pulseaudio change should have been done right from the beginning?
[12:38] <asac> TheMuso: could you please look at the latest patch in bug 192888?
[12:38] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192888 in libflashsupport "firefox crashes on flash contents" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192888
[12:39] <ogra> asac, i'm running it like that since last night (when i saw crimsuns ping)
[12:39] <asac> ogra: where is that config file? i don't have that ;)
[12:39] <ogra> sound seems to be good here but it will likely not work on all non dmix capable cards
[12:40] <ogra> and somehow fullscreen mode for flash movies flips immediately back to win mode now (might not be related)
[12:40] <asac> ogra: "Applying it makes pulseaudio use the 'default' ALSA virtual device, which is dmixed and dsnooped for nearly all audio cards"
[12:40] <ogra> aa/etc/pulse/default.pa
[12:40] <ogra> oops
[12:40] <ogra>  /etc/pulse/default.pa
[12:40] <asac> ogra: i see that path, but i don't have it ;)
[12:41] <ogra> but you have pulse installed ?
[12:41] <asac> i only have client.conf in there
[12:41] <ogra> th epulse server package creates it iirc
[12:41] <ogra> ogra@osiris:~$ dpkg -S /etc/pulse/default.pa
[12:41] <ogra> pulseaudio: /etc/pulse/default.pa
[12:42] <ogra> the fulscreen thing is worrying
[12:42] <asac> oh i think on this machine really removed it at some point ;)
[12:44] <asac> ogra: so why would a virtual also device break anywhere?
[12:44] <ogra> ??
[12:44] <ogra> why should it ?
[12:44] <ogra> you mean dmix
[12:44] <ogra> i think
[12:47] <asac> ogra: what does dmix do?
[12:47] <ogra> err, why doesnt FF allow me to put search termes into the url field ??
[12:47] <asac> isn't that a software layer?
[12:47] <ogra> XML-Verarbeitungsfehler: Fehler beim Verarbeiten einer Referenz auf eine externe Entität
[12:47] <ogra> Adresse: jar:file:///usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9b5/chrome/toolkit.jar!/content/global/netError.xhtml
[12:47] <ogra> Zeile Nr. 10, Spalte 3:  %netErrorDTD;
[12:47] <ogra> --^
[12:47] <ogra> meh
[12:47] <ogra> grr
[12:47] <asac> ogra: yeah langpack bustage
[12:48] <ogra> ah
[12:48] <asac> error page is currently broken
[12:48] <ogra> afaik older cards (typically sb driver) dont support it
[12:49] <asac> so dmix does hardware mixing?
[12:49] <ogra> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/FAQ#What.27s_all_this_dmix.2Fdshare.2Fdsnoop.2Fasym_stuff.3F_How_does_it_work.3F
[12:49] <ogra> no
[12:50] <ogra> but afaik you need a certain amount of channels to plug dmix on top
[12:51] <asac> crimsun: ^^ could you comment on this?
[12:51] <ogra> and things like esd apps will be able to hog the device directly
[12:51] <ogra> or libesd
[12:52] <ogra> i know pitti did some deep research some releases ago
[12:52] <asac> yeah, but maybe thats outdated now
[12:52] <asac> at least the tiny details :)
[12:53] <ogra> well, we're discussing principles and processes, not details atm :)
[12:54] <asac> ogra: NOTE: For ALSA 1.0.9rc2 and higher you don't need to setup dmix. Dmix is enabled as default for soundcards which don't support hw mixing.
[12:54] <asac>  * requires creation of a virtual slave device
[12:54] <asac> http://alsa.opensrc.org/index.php/Dmix
[12:54]  * ogra reads
[12:55] <asac> for me this sounds like dmix was created for devices that are dump :)
[12:55] <asac> dumb
[12:55] <ogra> right
[12:56] <asac> yeah ... so why would this "new" virtual alsa device break for some cards?
[12:56] <ogra> so you want to default to asoundrc for that ?
[12:57] <ogra> as i understood it in the past you need a certain amount of channels to have a dmix capable card which isnt the case for very old HW
[12:57] <ogra> (soundblaster 16capable cards)
[12:58] <ogra> but that might be outdated info
[12:58] <asac> ogra: yes right, but i don't see that anywhere on that dmix page :(
[12:58] <ogra> i'm probably behind wih my knowledge
[12:58] <ogra> but even then that looks quite horrible to get right in the asoundrc
[12:59] <asac> ogra: i don't want users to be required to edit their own asoundrc ... thats for sure
[13:00] <ogra> especully tha "KDE - Still Hearing Stuttering? " part
[13:00] <ogra> i'm a bit scared
[13:00] <ogra> there are o many options and it doesnt look like there is a common reciepe that works with all aps and in all cases
[13:01] <ogra> *apps
[13:01] <ogra> we only have until wednesday
[13:02] <laga> what was the situation regarding dmix before pulseaudio?
[13:02] <laga> eg in 7.10
[13:02] <asac> i don't know ... actually i don't think that its a regression that sound is not working :)
[13:02] <ogra> its enabled by default in the modules, i think that wasnt different in gutsy
[13:02] <ogra> the configuration is the prob
[13:02] <asac> i never could play multiple streams from multiple apps out of the box here at least
[13:02] <ogra> sound is working everywhere
[13:03] <laga> asac: oh, that's sad. that has always worked for me
[13:03] <ogra> apart from flash under certain circumstances
[13:03] <asac> well, in the past i had to disable ESD because soudn wasn't working properly.
[13:03] <ogra> asac, upgraded or plain hardy install ?
[13:03] <laga> sound servers are evil anyways. (imho)
[13:03] <ogra> my laptop has a two week old install and worked just fine from the beginning
[13:04] <asac> ogra: read above ... i talked about regressions ;)
[13:04] <ogra> (apart from teh flash issue)
[13:04] <asac> before hardy it was always not really working here
[13:04] <ogra> well, pulse is classes better indeed
[13:05] <asac> right, but we need to care for apps that don't use pulse as well
[13:05] <ogra> but imho we should revert to gutsy setup
[13:05] <ogra> the puse setup we have atm wasnt really deeply looked at
[13:05] <ogra> *nobody* during this cycle did *any* sound research
[13:06] <ogra> we just blindly dumped in pulse as replacemet for esd
[13:06] <asac> yeah ... and we got plenty of changed software
[13:06] <ogra> gutsy is known to work ....
[13:06] <ogra> or at least has *known* bugs
[13:07] <asac> ogra: known to work for whom? for me it didn't work well ... but thats what i say, if really dumb cards stop working that didn't work in gutsy, then its not a regression IMO
[13:07] <asac> but making flash have no sound for setups that previously had sound is pretty bad :/
[13:08] <ogra> well, for me it always worked, ,i never had sound probs on any HW with an ubuntu over here ... but then i only use default apps
[13:08] <ogra> *any Ubuntu
[13:08] <ogra> (and pulse on my ltsp terminals)
[13:08] <ogra> (since edgy)
[13:09] <ogra> with a virtual asla device on top
[13:09] <ogra> *alsa
[13:09] <ogra> which i would suggest for us here as well, but that brings libflashsupport back into the loop
[13:09] <asac> ogra: but isn't that exactly what crimsun suggests?
[13:09] <ogra> which we dont want
[13:10] <ogra> no
[13:10] <asac> no we cannot use libflashsupport, please scratch that
[13:10] <ogra> my setup is the other way round (and pulse isnt running in the user session)
[13:11] <ogra> pulse is just providin the network port on my clients, in the session there is an asoundrc that defines a virtual alsa device connecting to the network port pulse offers on the client
[13:12] <ogra> asac, everything wil work fie without any soundserver .... apart fro login and logout sounds
[13:13] <ogra> and gnome event sounds (which we dont enable at all)
[13:14] <ogra> pitti had a hack to gnome_sound_play in the past that made it use alsa in the back
[13:15] <ogra> which worked fine for only login/out sounds but started to stutter if other sounds are played
[13:15] <asac> ogra: yeah so lets kick pulse :)
[13:15] <ogra> and lose login/out sounds ?
[13:16] <asac> use gnome_sound_play hack?
[13:16] <ogra> ask pitti about it how sane it is
[13:16] <jeromeg> asac: that would be funny as pulseaudio has been advertised as one of the major new feautres of hardy
[13:17] <ogra> in any case we need a spec for intrepid
[13:17] <ogra> jeromeg, and ?
[13:17] <ogra> we can change that
[13:17] <laga> change it 5 days before release?
[13:18] <ogra> laga, vs releasing with boken sound and no flash sound support ?
[13:18] <jeromeg> ogra: I personally don't care, but changing things that have been planned for 6 monthes 5 days before the release looks weird to me
[13:18] <ogra> jeromeg, the pro is that it wasnt planned
[13:18] <ogra> we blindly followed upstream
[13:18] <jeromeg> upstream ?
[13:18] <asac> gnome
[13:18] <ogra> relying on the fact that they know what they do and that it just works
[13:18] <jeromeg> ok
[13:19] <ogra> which it doesnt
[13:19] <asac> ogra: so whats bad about crimsums suggestion? that it breaks old cards? whatelse? is there stuttering?
[13:19] <ogra> no here, no
[13:20] <ogra> i dont know where that fullscreen issue comes from
[13:20] <ogra> i discovered it before going to bed last night, need to check that more
[13:20] <ogra> s*not here
[13:21] <ogra> it might break ltsp if we go with a per user asoundrc
[13:21] <ogra> so that must be a global setup
[13:23] <ogra> asac, given that crimsun is the most knowledgeable person here i tend to trus his expertise
[13:23] <ogra> especially with the coments about the upgrade scenarios
[13:25] <asac> ogra: fulll screen issue?
[13:25] <ogra> i cant switch flash videos to fullscreen
[13:26] <ogra> they snap back after a second
[13:26] <asac> ogra: i am currently testing that setup and what i see is that videos dont run as swift as they should when i play flash in the background
[13:26] <laga> i wonder why a change in sound setup would break fullscreen mode of adobe's crapware. ogra, steps to reproduce?
[13:27] <asac> i doubt it does
[13:27] <ogra> laga, apply the pulse change (i rebooted then to make sure to have a clean system) swithca flesh movie in youtube to fullscreen while playing
[13:27] <ogra> asac, well, it started to show up after i made the pulse change to test it
[13:27] <asac> ogra: works here :)
[13:28] <asac> and i have a huge screen here ;)
[13:28] <ogra> weird
[13:29] <ogra> works here as well now
[13:29] <asac> good :)
[13:31] <ogra> i wonder wat that was
[13:31] <ogra> it flipped back immediately after the "perss esc to leave fullscreen" mgs disapeared
[13:32] <ogra> *press
[13:33] <ogra> asac, upload it then
[13:34]  * ogra is hoping for a fixed libflashsupport for 8.04.1 anyway ....
[13:34] <ogra> ltsp doesnt leave me a big choice here
[13:34] <laga> why does http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components say that main contains non-free components? does that make sense when they could just be shoved into restricted?
[13:35] <ogra> laga, firmware
[13:35] <laga> ogra: isn't that usually in l-r-m?
[13:36] <ogra> The licences for software applications in main must be free, but main may also may contain binary firmware and selected fonts that cannot be modified without permission from their authors. In all cases redistribution is unencumbered.
[13:37] <ogra> intel drivers are 100% free but the firmware still eeds to be a binary blob
[13:37] <ogra> for example
[13:38] <laga> ogra: i've always thought of main as a set of software i can modify the way i want and redistribute them freely, w/o having to be careful with the license. i guess i was wrong
[13:38] <laga> oh well, i'm not going to do modify firmware anyways
[13:38] <ogra> laga, thats gobuntu :)
[13:39] <laga> heh
[13:39] <ogra> ubuntu has the commitment to make HW work where possible ....
[13:40] <laga> ogra: yes, and l-r-m plays an important role there. looking at l-r-m, it also contains a lot of firmware for DVB devices (where the drivers are free), so i don't see why some firmware gets the special 'main' treatment. are there some substantial differences in the license of those blobs?
[13:41] <ogra> i'd guess so
[13:41] <ogra> i'm by no means a licensing expert :) i trust our archive admins here
[13:43] <laga> neither am i.
[13:43] <laga> i talked to the gobuntu guys once  and they even removed init routines in some dvb drivers which upload a few bytes of binary stuff
[13:45] <ogra> yeah
[13:46] <ogra> asac, oh, btw did you test sound recording and input methods with the change ? would be odd if microphones stopped working
[13:46] <ogra> (hardy is teh first time i had a working mic out of teh box right after install on any of my ubuntu machines)
[13:47] <asac> ogra: i am completely the wrong person to deal with this i guess :) .. i don't even have a microphone ;)
[13:47] <ogra> you have a laptop
[13:47] <asac> hmm ... the old one i had never had working sound (except with debian etch)
[13:47] <ogra> perfect
[13:47] <asac> the new one ... no idea if it has a mic ;)
[13:48] <asac> ogra: ?
[13:48] <ogra> test the old one :)
[13:48] <asac> well i tested it recently ... hardy still doesn't help
[13:48] <ogra> if that works the fix *must* be safe :P
[13:48] <asac> hehe
[13:48] <asac> yeah, but i guess sound is still not working
[13:49] <ogra> sound recorder seems to work for me
[13:50] <asac> ogra: i am now tuning alsamixer tMic channel ... where can i see if i get any signal?
[13:50] <ogra> asac, oh, btw if ou find a chance to test the last classmate image before release that would be very appreciated (especially suspend/resume)
[13:50] <asac> ah sound recorder
[13:50] <ogra> you probably need to unmute the mic input
[13:50] <asac> yeah did that in alsamixer
[13:50] <ogra> in volume control
[13:51] <ogra> and select the right input source in sound recorder
[13:51] <ogra> the default often doesnt work i found
[13:51] <asac> ok
[13:52] <asac> no luck ;)
[13:52] <asac> tried all suggested inputs
[13:52] <asac> and have microphone unmuted and boosted
[13:53] <asac> but thats without the changed pulseaudio thing
[13:53] <ogra> check the setup in your volume control
[13:53] <ogra> it often has recording sources disable you need to swithc or unmute
[13:54] <asac> well. i unmuted the mic there and boosted it ... no other device offers microphone so it should be right
[13:54] <ogra> i have about 10 different input devices i can enable in the voume control settings
[13:55] <ogra> and i need to unmute aux alongside the mic on this machine
[13:55] <asac> uaa ... i got "rueckkopplung" :)
[13:55] <ogra> yay
[13:55] <ogra> turn it down a bit :)
[13:55] <asac> i better leave that alone :(
[13:55] <laga> 'feedback loop'?
[13:55] <ogra> yeah
[13:55] <ogra> that means its working :)
[13:56] <ogra> just to sensitive
[13:56] <laga> ah, just 'feedback'
[13:56] <ogra> getting that configured right will be a challenge in next ltsp release  :)
[13:57] <ogra> localapps and sound capture are on my list of desired things to have for intrepid
[14:18] <Hobbsee> yay, power outage.
[14:19] <laga> yay, no backup generators (?)
[14:19] <Hobbsee> jcastro: got time for a chat, at some point?  (not overly time critical - after release is fine)
[14:19] <Hobbsee> laga: fairly safe to say that some of the machines are on
[14:19] <stgraber> laga: 1/3 of the builders are still up
[14:20] <laga> okay, s/no/&t enough/ ;)
[14:32] <crimsun> asac: the default pulseaudio config (that grabs raw hardware directly) is preferable with the intent of having libflashsupport pulled in directly with flashplugin-nonfree
[14:33] <crimsun> asac: in light of that latter change to flashplugin-nonfree, not changing the pulseaudio config to match does break existing setups
[14:33] <crimsun> asac: so, no, the pulseaudio change I mentioned earlier should not have been implemented right from the start
[14:34] <crimsun> asac: it is only a stop-gap measure to prevent further regressions from dapper(, edgy, feisty,) and gutsy
[14:36] <Whoopie> mjg59: Hi, I have a question with ejecting the bay on my thinkpad. your implementation is now used with ata_piix and not the bay kernel module. How can I call a script to unmount the drive (hdd/cd) before ejecting?
[14:56] <asac> crimsun: i tested this setup and now i have problems like the second application that uses sound stutters. do we need to tune anything else to make this behave better?
[14:56] <asac> like buffers or something?
[14:57] <crimsun> asac: what are the first and second applications?
[14:57] <asac> crimsun: doesn't matter.. i tried 1st RB and 2nd flash ... and vice-versa
[14:57] <asac> also tried totem + flash
[14:58] <asac> and flash + totem :)
[14:58] <crimsun> asac: well, that symptom can be worked around by manually creating an asoundrc, and it's one reason the default for PA was not to use dmix/dsnoop
[14:59] <crimsun> asac: the problem is that we can't create an asoundrc for all users that will work for all audio cards
[14:59] <asac> so its not buffer related?
[14:59] <crimsun> asac: not necessarily buffer-related, no.
[15:00] <crimsun> asac: so now that you've established that, on your setup, native ALSA and native PulseAudio stutter, can you establish that concurrent native ALSA and/or concurrent native PulseAudio also stutter?
[15:01] <crimsun> (e.g., multiple instances of `aplay /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav' for the former, multiple instances of `paplay /usr/share/sounds/*up.wav' for the latter)
[15:01] <asac> crimsun: can't i set alsa as output in gstreamer-properties?
[15:01] <asac> and start multiple totems?
[15:02] <crimsun> asac: sure, although I was attempting to eliminate the GSt layer directly for that test
[15:03] <asac> ok
[15:04] <asac> crimsun: multiple aplay worked fine
[15:04] <asac> crimsun: actually i am not sure that the sound stuttered ... it was rather that the video got stuck
[15:04] <asac> except for flash which halted completely temporarily
[15:05] <asac> multiple paplay and aplay appear to work properly
[15:07] <crimsun> ok, so the next step would be to use multiple gst-launch-0.10es with alsasink and pulsesink
[15:14] <asac> crimsun: for pulsesink i get bad pipeline error
[15:14] <asac> gst-launch-0.10 audiotestsrc ! audioconvert ! audioresample ! pulsesink
[15:16] <asac> strange that it worked at all ... gstreamer pulse wasn't installed
[15:21] <highvoltage> http://www.zoitz.com/archives/35
[15:57] <bigon> infinity: are you around? bug 217432 has been approuved by motu-release, will you build the pkg?
[15:57] <bigon> bug #217432
[15:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 217432 in openhackware "Please sync openhackware 0.4.1-3 from debian unstable" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217432
[16:01] <crimsun> asac: looks like we need to pass device explicitly for module-alsa-{sink,source} in /etc/pulse/default.pa
[18:14] <asac> crimsun: which device?
[18:51] <ScottK> If there are any buildd admins about ...  clamav in dapper backports just failed with "ntpdate[4480]: no server suitable for synchronization found" for powerpc, ia64, sparc, and hppa.
[18:51] <ScottK> I'd appreciate a giveback or fixing the problem + a giveback as needed.
[18:53] <ScottK> Looks like the same problem for Hardy too, which makes it a little more urgent ...
[18:54] <laga> maybe related to the buildd outdate?
[18:54] <laga> outagE*
[18:54] <james_w> ScottK: it seems to be many packages then.
[18:54] <ScottK> Yes.  Same 4 archs.
[18:54] <ScottK> laga: What buildd outage?
[18:54] <laga> Reduced buildd service till 3pm UTC due to power outage
[18:54] <laga>  /topic
[18:55] <ScottK> OK, except that would have been over 3 hours ago.
[18:55] <laga> yeah, but i wonder why nobody reset the topic
[18:55] <laga> ok, ok.
[18:55] <elmo> ScottK: link to the failed build?
[18:56] <ScottK> elmo: here's one; http://launchpadlibrarian.net/13579444/buildlog_ubuntu-dapper-hppa.clamav_0.92.1%7Edfsg2-1.1%7Edapper1_CHROOTWAIT.txt.gz
[18:56] <elmo> ScottK: at the LP level, if you have it
[18:56] <ScottK> elmo: How about https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/clamav/0.92.1~dfsg2-1.1/+build/566097
[18:58] <ScottK> elmo: I can give you 8 if you want it (same package on hardy and dapper-backports for 4 archs each release.
[18:58] <elmo> it's fine, I'll go through the buildd history
[19:07] <elmo> right, I think I've reset them all
[19:07] <elmo> but I'm trying to do it through the web ui and that's pretty painful
[19:07] <elmo> if I missed anything, feel free to yell
[19:07] <ScottK> Thanks.
[19:08] <ScottK> elmo: kde-guidance on powerpc looks to have the same problem.
[19:08] <james_w> elmo: does that include other packages?
[19:08] <elmo> all == all packages on all buildds
[19:08] <elmo> that got bitten by the ntpdate thing
[19:09] <james_w> great, thanks.
[19:10] <ScottK> elmo: Great.  I'll wait a bit then and see if anything looks to be left hanging.
[19:12] <ScottK> lamont: Would you have a moment to look at an hppa specific build failure?
[19:12] <lamont> sure
[19:13] <ScottK> It's devscripts.
[19:13] <ScottK> I'm getting the build log link.
[19:13] <lamont> np
[19:13] <ScottK> lamont: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/devscripts/2.10.11ubuntu5/+build/564980
[19:14] <lamont> ScottK: either ntp yanked time forward 2.5ish hours (doubtful), or the kernel is being pissy (quite possible), or there's a bug (not so likely)
[19:15]  * lamont gives it back to see how well it does in the chompers this tiem
[19:15] <ScottK> lamont: Sounds good.  The area where it failed wasn't changed in this revision.
[19:15] <ScottK> Thanksd.
[19:15] <ScottK> Thanks even
[19:15] <lamont> and I gave it a high score, so it should be next up
[19:15] <ScottK> Cool.
[19:15] <lamont> if it dies again, pls tell me?
[19:16] <ScottK> Will do.
[19:16] <lamont> dear launchpad, why is the number of waiting builds not a link?  everything else seems to be.  kthx.
[19:18] <lamont> ScottK: btw, have you run across anything that could generate realtime-ish numbers of the number of queuefiles, recipients, successes and failures on a running postfix instance?
[19:19] <ScottK> lamont: No, but I haven't looked either.
[19:20] <lamont> me neither
[19:20] <lamont> nao I wantses one.
[19:26] <mjg59> Whoopie: There'll still be an ACPI event
[19:26] <mjg59> Uh. Or possibly just a uevent
[19:28] <ScottK> lamont: devscripts built this time.  Thanks.
[19:40] <lamont> ScottK: it may have just been ntp-pain then
[19:47] <crimsun> asac: device=default
[19:48] <crimsun> asac: I attached a newer patch to that bug
[19:58] <infinity> bigon: Get it synced, and I'll build it on Monday.
[20:05] <bigon> infinity: ok thx
[20:07] <ScottK> elmo: kde-guidance 0.8.0svn20080103-0ubuntu16 in hardy on powerpc and clamav 0.92.1~dfsg2-1.1 in hardy on powerpc and ia64 are still saying chroot problem.  I don't think they got retried.
[20:19] <infinity> ScottK: Given bank...
[20:19] <infinity> ScottK: back, too.
[20:19] <ScottK> infinity: Thanks.
[20:20] <lamont> ScottK: from the "hrm... these bear looking beyond one-liners" department:
[20:20] <lamont> % apt-cache search postfix| grep stat
[20:20] <lamont> mailgraph - Mail statistics RRDtool frontend for Postfix
[20:20] <lamont> queuegraph - a RRDtool frontend for Postfix queue-statistics
[20:22] <lamont> both of which claim to do "daily, weekly, monthly, and yearly"  but I want 5 minute samples and hourly graphs as well
[20:22] <lamont> SMOP
[20:22] <ScottK> ? SMOP
[20:23] <lamont> simple matter of programming
[20:23] <infinity> Simple Matter of ...
[20:23] <infinity> Yeah.
[20:24] <ScottK> Yeah.
[20:35] <ScottK> infinity: That got it.  They all built.  Thanks again.
[21:28] <kommander> hi all :-)
[21:29] <sistpoty> infinity: if you've got time for some buildd fiddling, haskell-haskell-src would need the same timout adjustments on sparc like ghc6 (it's basically the same source)... however it's imo low priority
[21:30] <kommander> got a silly question ... I want to make a custom initramfs with a boot script mounting root partition as read only, then creating an union with a tmpfs and these partition which will be /
[21:30] <kommander> but ... to mount a partition, I need a / which is writable ?
[21:31] <kommander> this is like chicken and eggs problem
[21:31] <laga> kommander: mount -n?
[21:32] <kommander> hum ... interesting !
[21:32] <kommander> :-)
[22:17] <madmetal_spyros> hello
[22:17] <madmetal_spyros> anybody to talk about hardy upgrade problems?
[22:18] <ScottK> madmetal_spyros: Try #ubuntu+1
[22:18] <madmetal_spyros> oke thanks ScottK !
[23:55] <james_w> those with buildd powers: lvm2 on powerpc was hit by the ntpdate problem and is still in chroot wait state, could someone poke it please? https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/2.02.26-1ubuntu9/+build/566009