[00:00] <Mark_Milliman> When I do it as you suggested, I receive, "Can't display location 'smb://channel/" No application is registerd as handling this file.
[00:01] <CarlFK> "The upgrade aborts now. ...  Setting up sysklogd  ..Running depmod." and lot of other stuff that isn't very "aborts" like
[00:01] <CarlFK> bug?
[00:06] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> jscript should work out of box with ff3 right?
[00:07] <slackern> heh, kde4 was quite nice :)
[00:07] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> anyone?
[00:15] <Mark_Milliman> When I use the IP address to access shares Nautilus finds it
[00:15] <Mark_Milliman> it can't seem to browse by name though
[00:17] <Mark_Milliman> Is there still a bug to restore files from the Trash in Nautilus?
[00:22] <Dr_willis> Mark_Milliman,  edit your hosts file and put its name/ip in there perhaps.
[00:25] <CarlFK> is there a ubuntu source for bug 192310 workaround: wget http://debian.mirror.inra.fr/debian/pool/main/h/hyphen/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us_2.3-5_all.deb
[00:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192310 in hyphen "package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192310
[00:30] <nandemonai> CarlFK, Not sure, I can however verify that the workaround worked for me.
[00:30] <CarlFK> i guess if there was one, it would be here: http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/h/hyphen/
[00:31] <CarlFK> do-release-upgrade -dChecking for a new ubuntu release
[00:31] <CarlFK> "No new release found" how do I re-run it?
[00:35] <oxigen> ha, it work this time! \o/
[00:37] <Mark_Milliman> Seems to be that my SAMBA problem had to do with OpenDNS.  I had to change the order in which names are resolved
[00:38] <oxigen> i want to send info about which packages i will install, is this still possible in hardy?
[00:39] <RAOF> oxigen: If you mean "popularity contest", then yes.  It's in the same spot it's always been, IIRC.
[00:39] <oxigen> RAOF: yes, do you remember where?
[00:46] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> i686 means 32bit or 64bit?
[00:46] <Flannel> 32bit
[00:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> what should be 64bit?
[00:47] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> amd
[00:48] <Flannel> teprrr: AMD64 is for 64 bit
[00:48] <Flannel> er, [Hardy]TuTUXG
[00:48] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Flannel, sweet, thanks
[00:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Flannel, so if install the 32bit ubuntu on amd64 cpu, will it work?
[00:49] <Flannel> [Hardy]TuTUXG: yes
[00:49] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Flannel, and all the stuff, java, flash should work as well?
[00:50] <Flannel> [Hardy]TuTUXG: On 32? yeah
[00:50] <Flannel> Well, as well as they work anywhere
[00:51] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> Flannel, thanks alot never used a amd pc, so dont know
[00:51] <AnswerGuy> Can I say right now, right here that I really don't like that new "panning map" TZ selector in Ubiquity?
[00:53] <twb> AnswerGuy: hear, hear.
[00:53] <RAOF> oxigen: System->Preferences->Software Sources->Statistics.
[00:53] <twb> AnswerGuy: it's very difficult to use if you aren't acclimatized to pointing devices
[00:55] <AnswerGuy> twb, I've been using pointing devices for over 20 years!  The new widget is a bad UI!
[00:55] <CarlFK> I bet that is the result of "doesn't fit on 800x600"
[00:56] <AnswerGuy> Well, we should revert to the old one which worked fine.
[00:56] <AnswerGuy> This one is just a bad idea.  (You should *at least* be able to click *anywhere* to zoom in one level)
[00:57] <AnswerGuy> Anyway I suppose I have to dig up my old Launchpad account info and find the bug report web pages.
[00:59] <oxigen> RAOF: i can't believe this, i dont have Software Sources, i feel so stupid :S
[01:00] <AnswerGuy> I've also found a bug in the partman stuff; (using Ubiquity 1.7.14; after starting from a Hardy alpha5 AMD disc and updating the package in my live session)
[01:00] <AnswerGuy> (Same bug was in the alpha5 version)
[01:31] <lime4x4> bluetooth still disconnecting after screen saver activates
[01:33] <DanaG> Wow, some things behave VERY badly when the PulseAudio server dies.
[01:34] <DanaG> For example, Decibel Audio Player will start eating 100% of both cores of my CPU, as well as eating memory at a moderate (i.e. gives you a chance to kill it if you notice it quickly enough) pace.
[01:34] <DanaG> If I had let it go on unchecked, it probably would've eaten ALL of my memory.
[01:36] <burner> anyone know the story with epiphany webkit?  are we going to see it?
[01:36] <burner> firefox 3 nightlies rock, but i'm curious what webkit is like... an apple guy was telling me how great webkit nightlies are
[01:48] <igorgue> anyone with a intel 3945abg card that works in Hardy?
[01:48] <igorgue> I'm having problems right now :(
[01:50] <Hobbsee> igorgue: yeah
[01:50] <Hobbsee> igorgue: ignore the fact that it has no light
[01:50] <igorgue> got any workaround?
[01:50] <Hobbsee> it just works.
[01:50] <igorgue> men, but I was not able to connect
[01:51] <Hobbsee> ignoring the light
[01:51] <Hobbsee> is this wep?
[01:51] <igorgue> don't know
[01:51] <igorgue> you mean if it has password?
[01:52] <igorgue> ahh no
[01:52] <igorgue> :P
[01:53] <igorgue> sorry, I don't know anything about wireless, actually my networking knowledge is almost 0
[01:53] <igorgue> anyway...
[01:53] <igorgue> are you using roaming mode?
[01:54] <Hobbsee> no
[01:54] <igorgue> manual(managed) then?
[01:55] <igorgue> Hobbsee: are you using Gnome right?
[01:56] <Hobbsee> yes
[01:56] <igorgue> what's the difference between ipw3945 and iwl3945?
[01:56] <igorgue> one is FLOSS and the other no?
[01:56] <CarlFK> "To make recovery in case of failure easier a additional sshd will be started on port '9004'. If anything goes wrong with the running ssh you can still connect to the additional one."
[01:57] <Hobbsee> yes
[01:57] <CarlFK> oh, I get it now
[01:57] <igorgue> Hobbsee: so let me try, bbr
[01:57] <igorgue> ahh Ubuntu should include ipw3945 too
[01:57] <igorgue> :@
[01:57] <igorgue> bbr
[01:57] <Hobbsee> it's probably still in linux-restricted-modules
[01:58] <Hobbsee> but check for bugs, workarounds, etc
[01:58]  * Hobbsee --> class
[02:12] <DanaG> WTF?  That time I LET the thing eat memory, and not only did it bring the system grinding to a halt... it also brought basically EVERY SINGLE SERVICE crashing down.
[02:12] <DanaG> How is it that something running as NOT root can be allowed to do that?
[02:12] <DanaG> I did init 1 and then init 5 to recover, and now ntfs-3g gives me this:  fuse: failed to access mountpoint /media/XP: Transport endpoint is not connected
[02:15] <DanaG> Oh, and sometimes PulseAudio segfaults on moving a stream.
[02:25] <RyanPrior> Is there a program that lets you create DVDs with menus and so on?
[02:25] <CarlFK> "yes"
[02:26] <CarlFK> there are a few, never really figured out how to make them work
[02:29] <anolis> anyone know of a fix for update-manager problem?
[02:30] <CarlFK> yes.  hold please
[02:30] <anolis> ok
[02:32] <CarlFK> wget http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/h/hyphen/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us_2.3.1-1_all.deb
[02:32]  * DanaG thinks too many people use "dpkg-reconfigure it!" as a miracle fix for all problems.
[02:32] <DanaG> In Xorg, I mean.
[02:32] <CarlFK> sudo dpkg --force-all -i   (that file)
[02:33] <CarlFK> disclaimer, the posted fix uses a file from debian repo. I tried that one, and it seems to work
[02:33] <RAOF> DanaG: Surely the proper fix is now "sudo rm /etc/X11/xorg.conf" :P
[02:33] <CarlFK> "System upgrade is complete."
[02:33] <CarlFK> that's encourageing
[02:33]  * DanaG has lots of tweaks in his xorg.conf, and thus won't live with the stock one.
[02:33] <RAOF> Thing I didn't know about irssi #32: /etc/X11/xorg.conf is tab-autocompleted.
[02:33] <pwnguin> RAOF: not if i want wacom ;)
[02:33] <DanaG> For example, for touchpad stuff, it must go there.
[02:34] <RAOF> pwnguin: Or want nouveau to rock, either.
[02:34] <pwnguin> indeed
[02:35] <anolis> nvm i fixed it
[02:35]  * RAOF goes to rebuild the nouveau PPA against the -11 kernels.
[02:35] <anolis> oh thanks carl. i just got the .81 deb and did "sudo dpkg --install --force-downgrade <path to deb>"
[02:35] <anolis> seemed to work
[02:36]  * DanaG can't live without his 3D WM!
[02:37] <RAOF> Compiz *does* rock, yes.
[02:38] <DanaG> Argh, why does the following app DEMAND mmap?  It means I can't use it with PulseAudio:
[02:38] <DanaG> !info japa
[02:38] <ubotu> japa (source: japa): JACK and ALSA Perceptual Analyser. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.2.1-3ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 33 kB, installed size 136 kB
[02:39] <DanaG> Argh, I want to USE the thing... but nope, doesn't even work with the HW: device of my Audigy!
[02:41] <DanaG> *segfault*
[02:42] <DanaG> so says PulseAudio, when I try to move a stream away from a virtual device from .asoundrc.
[02:47] <tumbleweed__> I'm having trouble getting ndiswrapper to work with the new kernel update, can someone help?
[03:00] <jimmygoon> Is Hardy going to get the artwork refresh that it is supposed to get (like gutsy was supposed to get, etc)
[03:03] <Daisuke_Laptop> artwork refresh has, afaik, been pushed to intrepid
[03:03] <jimmygoon> :(
[03:03] <Daisuke_Laptop> (which by itself is an okay code name...  but why ibex?)
[03:03] <jimmygoon> nooooo
[03:03] <tumbleweed__> I'm unable to get ndiswrapper to work still :/
[03:03] <jimmygoon> It has been getting moved back for too too too long
[03:04] <Daisuke_Laptop> i think the reason it got moved is partly because hardy is an LTS release
[03:04] <Daisuke_Laptop> better to introduce something like that in the moving-target releases
[03:05] <tumbleweed__> I have a bck4328
[03:05] <tumbleweed__> bcm4328*
[03:07] <macogw> jimmygoon: there's a new Human theme based on the Murrine theme engine and a very different wallpaper...no more big swooshy swirls
[03:08] <jimmygoon> macogw, is it on the current alpha 5 or somewhere that I could install it and play with it in Gutsy?
[03:09] <jimmygoon> well, it sure isn't whats in the screenshots on the alpha5 wiki page :/
[03:11] <Kano> hi, is there an "official" pxelinux.cfg for hardy?
[03:11] <jimmygoon> are there nightly builds?
[03:11] <Kano> i modified the isolinux.cfg and can boot it via pxe too, just want to know if there is one official one
[03:14] <Kano> also how about adding a pxelinux.cfg dir on the iso + the very small pxelinux.0?
[03:15] <macogw> jimmygoon: yes there are nightly builds
[03:15] <Kano> then you could just export the cd and setup the tftp to that dir too
[03:15] <macogw> somewhere
[03:15] <Kano> and you are done
[03:15] <jimmygoon> macogw, I found it.. they are "daily" builds
[03:15] <Kano> (when you already configured your dhcp server)
[03:17] <Kano> i dont think that this would take more than 500 kb
[03:17] <Kano> nobody using pxe boot?
[03:19] <Kano> 1 gbit network boot is way faster than booting from a cd...
[03:20] <jimmygoon> Kano, do you do a pxe boot from the network?
[03:21] <jimmygoon> wow, that was a stupid question
[03:21] <jimmygoon> thats not what I meant
[03:21] <Kano> well of course i do
[03:21] <jimmygoon> I meant do you do the boot from the iso or extract stuff from the iso to prep for the net boot?
[03:21] <Kano> well you need the casper dir
[03:23] <Kano> then you take pxelinux.0 from the syslinux package
[03:23] <Kano> and write a little pxelinux.cfg/default
[03:23] <Kano> you can export it using nfs or smb
[03:24] <CarlFK> Kano: i do pxe - love it. and you are right
[03:24] <Kano> what do you think about the idea to put the needed files directly in the iso?
[03:25] <CarlFK> they were there a long time ago
[03:25] <CarlFK> are you sure they arent now?
[03:26] <CarlFK> what I do now is wget the installer kernel and initrd.gz, then use apt-cacher as my repo
[03:26] <Kano> i only see an isolinux dir
[03:26] <Kano> well i boot the live images
[03:26] <CarlFK> pxe ?
[03:26] <Kano> i dont want to install
[03:26] <Kano> sure
[03:26] <CarlFK> cool
[03:27] <Kano> i fixed the kanotix terminal server and now i test the same with ubuntu
[03:27] <CarlFK> im about to run out, but would love to see your config - mind posting it?
[03:28] <Kano> you copy isolinux.cfg to pxelinux.cfg/default
[03:28] <Kano> then you add just 2 options
[03:28] <Kano> netboot=nfs nfsroot=ip:/path
[03:29] <Kano> in the dir should be the casper subdir
[03:29] <Kano> well you get an error when you do that, therefore i asked if there is an "official" dir
[03:29] <Kano> but it boots
[03:30] <Kano> guess what you only need to do when the files are on the iso, then you dont have to extract it...
[03:30] <Kano> alt least you could override the nfsroot settings
[03:30] <CarlFK> I cut/pasted that into my pxelinux.cfg/default - I'll se about geting ti working when I come back
[03:31] <Kano> i am sure it directly boots
[03:31] <Kano> casper and do the same as live-initramfs which i tested first
[03:31] <Kano> live-helper can create directly net images
[03:32] <Kano> what i would like would be live-helper for ubuntu...
[03:47] <wastrel> i just ran into my first major hardy problem
[03:48] <Kano> bash-completion is not installed and active
[03:48] <Kano> very bad
[03:49] <wastrel> meh
[03:50] <wastrel> what's live-helper
[03:50] <DanaG> "intrepid" sounds too long to me.
[03:50] <DanaG> 3 syllables.
[03:51] <Kano> wastrel: http://debian-live.alioth.debian.org/
[03:51] <wastrel> no gui
[03:52] <Kano> i think there is a gui, but i never use that
[03:52] <DanaG> Here's something odd with ALSA: I plugged in my USB sound card, and it shows up in /proc/asound/* but not in aplay -l.
[03:52] <DanaG> How is that possible?
[03:52] <Kano> i only use lh_config/lh_build
[03:52] <wastrel> no, i don't havea gui for web sites
[03:52] <DanaG> And my Audigy2 can't do Stereo Mix recording.
[03:54] <nomasteryoda> DanaG, isn't all that working thru pulseaudio?
[03:54] <nomasteryoda> my amarok works perfectly everytime now in hardy
[03:54] <DanaG> With that "japa" thingy, you have to use something mmap'able, so I had to call it on the hw:1 directly.
[03:55] <DanaG> !info japa
[03:55] <nomasteryoda> ah
[03:55] <ubotu> japa (source: japa): JACK and ALSA Perceptual Analyser. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.2.1-3ubuntu1 (hardy), package size 33 kB, installed size 136 kB
[03:55] <DanaG> Oh yeah, when you increase the "PCM" volume on the Audigy, all it does is increase the noise level.
[03:56] <nomasteryoda> nice ::/
[04:01] <wastrel> so do i need to file a bug for this, getting the wrong kernel in my last upgrade?
[04:03] <wastrel> so debian live is like wubi
[04:03] <wastrel> no it's bootable media
[04:03] <wastrel> ok
[04:03] <wastrel> hrm my gnome-panel is b0rked
[04:03] <Kano> ne live-helper is a tool to create custom live cds
[04:03] <DanaG> Hmm, I seem to have found a "Noise" slider on my Audigy2.  It's labelled "OLD PCM".  WTF?
[04:04] <Kano> but not only live cds, also network images, usb sticks...
[04:15] <AtomicSpark> lawl
[04:18]  * DanaG goes and sics some OLD PCM on Creative.
[04:18] <DanaG> s/sic/throw/
[04:55] <crimsun_> guys, if you're experiencing either bug 194052 or bug 194719 (or both), please try my ~3 packages at http://www.trilug.org/~crimsun/hal/ and report results in comments on one of the bug reports.  Thanks!
[04:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194052 in hal "hal not reading information about sysfs batteries correctly" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194052
[04:55] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 194719 in hal "01_proc_sys_batteries.patch causes a regression making gnome-power-manager not detect the battery properly" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194719
[04:58] <AtomicSpark> hal? why would i want an evil computer on my machine?
[05:01] <RAOF> crimsun_: No amd64 love? :(
[05:02] <RAOF> crimsun_: Or, more constructive, _want_ some amd64 love?
[05:02] <dencrypt> amd64 <3
[05:04] <AtomicSpark> <3
[05:06] <crimsun_> RAOF: feel free and add as comment(s)
[05:06] <crimsun_> I'm hacking this stuff up on a rather paltry Pentium II
[05:07]  * crimsun_ -> Z
[05:07] <AtomicSpark> what is HAL?
[05:07] <RAOF> crimsun_: Sleep well :)
[05:13] <Sonic1> trying to find apps that are lightweight alternatives to the openoffice suite, anyone know of any?
[05:14] <Sonic1> I have Abiword replacing the writer already
[05:20] <hwilde> Sonic1, how about Ajax Write   http://us.ajax13.com/en/ajaxwrite/
[05:21] <RAOF> Sonic1: abiword may do some of what you're after.
[05:24] <Sonic1> ew, web based
[05:24] <Sonic1> Laptops don't always have access to the internet you know ;)
[05:25] <tabenx> Morning everyone
[05:29] <lsmobrian> anybody know anything about the new policykit
[05:30] <RAOF> Yes; it's a breed of staffordshire terrier.

[05:30] <lsmobrian> so no?
[05:30] <RAOF> lsmobrian: I'm sure than many people know what you want to know, and merely await the specification of the particular aspect of policykit that you'd like explained :)
[05:31] <lsmobrian> gotcha, resetting to default policies
[05:31] <lsmobrian> is there an easy way?
[05:31] <Amaranth> there is a policykit manager gui, isn't there?
[05:31] <RAOF> Yes; and particular setting-by-setting reverting to default is easy.
[05:32] <lsmobrian> yeah.. i somehow locked myself out of it..
[05:32] <RAOF> There's a button "revert to default" next to each action.
[05:32] <lsmobrian> everytime i click on something it closes with a segmentation fault
[05:32] <Amaranth> polkit-gnome-authorization
[05:32] <Amaranth> run that
[05:32] <RAOF> That doesn't sound like you've locked yourself out; that sounds like it's broken.
[05:33] <lsmobrian> thats what i've been running
[05:33] <Amaranth> also, my System->Preferences is the size of my screen :/
[05:33] <RAOF> As is mine, but that's because I've got about 4 different JVMs installed.
[05:33] <lsmobrian> well i changed a few things. hoping to allow all..  but now its crashes
[05:33] <Amaranth> i blame java, compiz, and kde4
[05:34] <RAOF> Ewww, kde4.
[05:34] <Amaranth> i needed kwin and systemsettings
[05:34] <Amaranth> for seeing if compiz sucks or the infrastructure sucks :P
[05:34] <RAOF> lsmobrian: So, firstly, there's probably a bug report somewhere in here.
[05:34] <hwilde> compiz kills my video card;  kde4 is no problem
[05:35] <RAOF> If all you did is fiddle around with the gui, it shouldn't suddenly start segfaulting.
[05:35] <hwilde> define 'fiddle'
[05:36] <RAOF> hwilde: As long as you don't leave the gui, anything whatseover.
[05:36] <lsmobrian> im on my mac right now, so i couldnt tell you the exact keys i changed... but i think it was system configuration
[05:36] <Amaranth> hwilde: I don't believe you
[05:36] <Amaranth> hwilde: What video card?
[05:37] <Amaranth> wow, splashy kills booting
[05:37] <RAOF> Awesome!
[05:37] <Amaranth> pretty neat thing for a bootsplash to do
[05:37] <hwilde> you dont believe me what?  i didn't say anything
[05:37] <hwilde> ohhh right
[05:37] <RAOF> grub2 *doesn't* kill booting for me, which I was somewhat surprised about.
[05:37] <hwilde> I've got an nvidia 8600 gts
[05:37] <hwilde> I think it's actually metacity that kills it
[05:37] <hwilde> if I startx with no window manager it's fine
[05:38] <Amaranth> hwilde: Oh, I believe you, you're using kwin with XRender compositing then
[05:38] <hwilde> if I run icewm it's fine
[05:38] <hwilde> if I run kubuntu it's fine
[05:38] <Amaranth> oh, then you're not using any compositing
[05:38] <Amaranth> so compositing is broken, awesome
[05:38] <hwilde> but in default xsession with metacity, if I grab a window and drag it around real fast, I can see the cpu spike and hten it locks up
[05:38] <Amaranth> I swear if I ever meet someone from nvidia...
[05:38] <RAOF> Amaranth: What?  8600's don't have sufficient support to compi?
[05:38] <hwilde> but I can play full screen games with 3d graphics for hours
[05:38] <hwilde> if I boot up and go right into the game
[05:39] <hwilde> but if I exit and like try to check webmail or open a window, it will lock up
[05:39] <hwilde> if I open a pdf and it goes full screen it really locks up hard
[05:39] <hwilde> but in icewm it is stable for days
[05:39] <hwilde> I keep waiting for an update that will magically fix it
[05:39] <Amaranth> hwilde: sucks to be you, i guess
[05:39]  * RAOF files this little anecdote away for the next time someone says "but the nvidia driver is really good, it doesn't matter that it's a binary blob"
[05:39] <hwilde> nah the gui is overrated anywyas
[05:39] <Amaranth> hwilde: that update would be called 'nouveau'
[05:40] <RAOF> Mmm, seriously fast 2d.  But not for you.
[05:41] <RAOF> Well, not yet.
[05:42] <Amaranth> RAOF: I'm hoping by the end of the year I can tell people "only install the nvidia driver if you need power saving"
[05:42] <Amaranth> and 3 months later i can just stop telling them to install it
[05:43] <RAOF> Amaranth: This seems unlikely, at least in general.  *I*'m certainly hoping to not tougch the blob by the end of the year, but I suspect cards outside the nv4x sweetspot might not be so lucky.
[05:43] <RAOF> Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, that'd be awesome.
[05:44] <Amaranth> RAOF: Well it sounds like a 3D driver for NV3x doesn't sound so hard
[05:44] <Amaranth> RAOF: older than that and I honestly stop caring so much
[05:44] <Amaranth> Just need that NV5x
[05:45] <RAOF> Yeah, certainly.  And nv5x sounds hard, especially since 2d isn't particularly stable at this point for those guys.
[05:45] <Amaranth> That isn't much different from the blob though
[05:45] <RAOF> Oh, really?  Surely the blob supports nv50 reasonably well?
[05:45] <Amaranth> The sweet spot for people using the blob is something old enough to have gotten lots of driver work but new enough to not get marked obsolete in 3 months
[05:45] <Amaranth> That means NV4x
[05:46] <Amaranth> So...splashy bad
[05:47] <RAOF> Nouveau good :)
[05:47] <Amaranth> heh
[05:47] <Amaranth> i wonder how hard it is to put usplash in debian and create a theme
[05:47]  * DanaG wonders how ATI will be by June.
[05:48] <Amaranth> DanaG: why june?
[05:48] <DanaG> Because that's when I'll be shopping for a new laptop.
[05:48] <DanaG> Pondering an HD2600, or if possible, a 3600 series.
[05:49] <Amaranth> yeah, um
[05:49] <RAOF> Why does git suck so hard?  I've cloned nouveau's gallium git repository, and checked out the branch.  Now, I want to update this checkout.  Why doesn't "git pull" do this?
[05:49] <RAOF> GAH.
[05:49] <Amaranth> you'd better hope fglrx gets really good by then
[05:50] <Amaranth> RAOF: the magic flag is --track
[05:50] <RAOF> Oh, really?
[05:50] <RAOF> Awesome.
[05:50] <RAOF> At what point?
[05:50] <Amaranth> hell if i know
[05:50] <RAOF> git pull --track?
[05:50] <Amaranth> saw a nouveau guy say it
[05:50] <Amaranth> i think so
[05:50] <Amaranth> he was talking about this same thing though :P
[05:50] <DanaG> I just want it to be not-significantly-worse than NVIDIA.  I don't actually care if the performance is amazing, but I do want it to not do that damn BLINKING (... though I actually haven't had that issue in a while).
[05:51] <RAOF> DanaG: Whereas it's re-appeared for me with a vengeance today.  Complete with no-screen-updates between blinks.
[05:51] <DanaG> I just want to be sure I won't regret it if I get ATI.
[05:52] <DanaG> And by "regret it", I mean, for at least a year and a half.
[05:52] <Amaranth> DanaG: If you're getting a laptop the answer is obviously X3100
[05:52] <DanaG> Let me rephrase that: I don't want to find myself hating it every second I use it.  If I got IGP, I definitely would hate it -- can't do HL2 at nice resolutions.
[05:53] <Amaranth> It's not a bad performer now and apparently the gallium driver for it makes the current driver look really slow
[05:53] <DanaG> I don't want anything weaker than my Go 7600.
[05:53] <RAOF> Having the specs suggest that the support will generally get better over time for the ATI card.
[05:53] <hwilde> I am happy with nvidia 8600
[05:53] <hwilde> dual monitor, 3d support, 1600x1050 widescreen
[05:53] <RAOF> hwilde: Apart from the fact that it locks your box :P
[05:53] <hwilde> yeah aside from metacity locking up but I blame the software
[05:53] <Amaranth> Right, so if you can get a laptop with an rs670 you're set
[05:53] <hwilde> I can play full screen games for hours so I do not think it is the card or the driver
[05:53] <Amaranth> Because that's the mobile chip that combines r600 2d with r500 3d or some such thing
[05:53] <DanaG> HP 8510p is the one I'm thinking of.
[05:54] <DanaG> HD2600, currently.
[05:54] <Amaranth> either way they know how to drive it, 2d and 3d
[05:54] <Amaranth> DanaG: right, with an HD2600 you'll get probably zero power management and mostly non-accelerated 2d
[05:54] <Amaranth> DanaG: in 12-18 months you might get mostly stable 3d
[05:55] <DanaG> Are you speaking of the open-source or the closed-source?  It doesn't really matter too much to me.
[05:55] <Amaranth> open source
[05:55] <Amaranth> as for closed source, well
[05:55] <DanaG> random aside: /me wonders what 1920x1200 at 15.4" looks like.
[05:55] <Amaranth> they're doing alright now but they don't have a good track record
[05:55] <Amaranth> ......
[05:55] <Amaranth> it looks like that, those were whole words
[05:56] <Amaranth> zoom in, you'll see it
[05:56] <DanaG> My current LCD is 1440x900 at 17", for 100DPI.
[05:57] <RAOF> Mine is 1650x1040 at 15.4", for 130DPI.
[05:57] <Amaranth> i've got 1440x900 with 17"
[05:57] <RAOF> I haven't actually seen how windows handles that DPI, but Gnome likes it.
[05:57] <Amaranth> DanaG: you said you had an HP laptop with a 17" screen and a Go 7600?
[05:58] <DanaG> No, current is Gateway M685.
[05:58] <Assid> gnome doesnt like it either
[05:58] <Assid> the fonts loook huge
[05:58] <Amaranth> ah
[05:58] <DanaG> Assid: make sure your DPI settings are right.
[05:58] <DanaG> M685 is also known as NX860 series.
[05:58] <Assid> increasing the dpi ends up with more fonts
[05:58] <Amaranth> Actually if your DPI is set right the fonts should look huge
[05:58] <Assid> err.. bigger fonts
[05:58] <DanaG> http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html
[05:58] <Amaranth> the problem is fonts are resolution independent, everything else isn't
[05:58] <DanaG> That could be a factoid for !dpi
[05:59] <DanaG> With the note to check that Xorg gets it right.
[05:59] <Amaranth> i forget how to show what X thinks my DPI is
[05:59] <Assid> also after the laste few updates
[05:59] <DanaG> dmesg | grep -i dpi
[06:00] <DanaG> er
[06:00] <Amaranth> err, no
[06:00] <DanaG> grep -i dpi /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[06:00] <Assid> my fonts are darker in alot of places.. and much thinner in the others
[06:00] <Amaranth> (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (88, 91); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[06:00] <Amaranth> fail
[06:00] <DanaG> Now, my dad's plasma TV: 1024x768 stretched to 42 inches widescreen.... that's rectangular pixels.  If it were square, it'd be 30 DPI.
[06:00] <Assid> you know the gdm login ? see the username there.. its  huge
[06:00] <Amaranth> Assid: yay intel
[06:01] <Assid> (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (87, 91); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[06:01] <DanaG> Hmm, I like the heavy text at the login screen.  How did it get that way?
[06:01] <RAOF> Hm.  They fixed nouveau's gallium build on amd64.  Cool.  Now to fight with the build to try for a 32bit version.
[06:01] <Amaranth> Assid: oh, nvidia, wow
[06:01] <Assid> Amaranth: it just started in the last few days
[06:01] <Amaranth> Assid: Ok, either way, this goes away in hardy+1
[06:01] <DanaG> (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (98, 99); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[06:01] <DanaG> Yay for good EDID!
[06:01] <Assid> Amaranth: what goes away
[06:01] <Assid> the font being dark ?
[06:01] <Amaranth> gdm in hardy+1 will use gnome-settings-daemon so it'll set fonts to 92DPI no matter what
[06:01] <Amaranth> no, the fonts being huge at login
[06:02] <RAOF> (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (129, 133); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[06:02] <RAOF> (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (129, 133); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[06:02] <Assid> Amaranth: it just started.. it used to be dine upto before
[06:02] <Amaranth> the default on your desktop is DPI of 92 too
[06:02] <DanaG> It should use the REAL dpi value, I'd think.
[06:02] <RAOF> Now that's going to be annoyingly small :)
[06:02] <DanaG> http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-9742/README/appendix-d.html -- note the ConstantDPI option!
[06:02] <Amaranth> DanaG: the real DPI is hard to calculate
[06:02] <Amaranth> as we've just shown
[06:02] <Assid> Amaranth: i dont know.. but the fonts are horrible
[06:02] <Amaranth> most hardware gets it wrong
[06:03] <DanaG> "By default on X.Org 6.9 or newer X servers, the NVIDIA X driver recomputes the size in millimeters of the X screen whenever the size in pixels of the X screen is changed using XRandR, such that the DPI remains constant."
[06:03] <Amaranth> also, 100 DPI fonts look like crap
[06:03]  * Assid doesnt know what to do
[06:03] <DanaG> I use 99 in gnome.
[06:03] <Amaranth> Assid: *shrug*
[06:03] <Amaranth> wow, the difference between 99 and 100 is huge
[06:03] <Assid> it just started  in the last few updates
[06:03] <Amaranth> Assid: you've said that 5 times now
[06:04] <DanaG> Huge, but hard to quantify.
[06:04] <Amaranth> No, I mean literally huge
[06:04] <Amaranth> The fonts were 1.5x larger at 100
[06:04] <Assid> yeah but i dont want to go blind
[06:04] <DanaG> Wow!  Mine doesn't change that much.
[06:04] <Amaranth> So what does having Xorg know my correct DPI get me?
[06:05] <DanaG> I think it'd help with proper font rendering.
[06:05] <Assid> the thin fonts, on the other hand look scratchy
[06:05] <DanaG> Oh, and that ConstantDPI thing seems screwy to me.
[06:05] <Amaranth> alright, i'll tell it i have 99 DPI then
[06:06] <DanaG> Changing resolution shouldn't change the physical size of the screen!  That's just weird.
[06:06] <Amaranth> oh, you can't set DPI
[06:06] <Amaranth> you have to set mm dimensions
[06:06] <Amaranth> i forgot
[06:06] <DanaG> Go to font settings and hit "advanced"
[06:06] <Amaranth> This I know
[06:06] <Amaranth> This I did
[06:06] <DanaG> aah.
[06:06] <Amaranth> Doesn't much help me in gdm
[06:06] <DanaG> aah.
[06:07] <Assid> doesnt help me in regular X either
[06:07] <Amaranth> hrm, my terminals got huge
[06:07] <Assid> huge?dark!
[06:07] <DanaG> Perhaps the font sizes themselves are too big.
[06:07] <Amaranth> yeah, i had the rest of my fonts set to 9
[06:07] <Amaranth> terminal set to 10
[06:07] <Amaranth> because 9 looked horrible before, it's good now
[06:08] <DanaG> You can set it to 9.5 by typing the number manually, if you want.
[06:08] <Assid> http://picpaste.com/screenshot1_1.png
[06:08] <Assid> see that
[06:08] <DanaG> Oh hey, is there a way to override minimum resolution for an external display?
[06:08] <Assid> those fonts are soo damn bold and huge
[06:09] <DanaG> Many projectors at our school have Pin 9 missing, so they have no EDID... and thus appear as 800x600 max.
[06:09] <Amaranth> Assid: ah, this problem
[06:09] <Amaranth> Assid: bad fonts
[06:09] <Assid> Amaranth: worked fine all this time ?
[06:09] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[06:09] <Assid> even terminal was working fine
[06:09] <Amaranth> Vista fonts randomly work and don't work
[06:09] <Assid> terminal became darker too
[06:10] <Assid> dont wanna compare to vista.. mainly cause its vista
[06:10] <DanaG> I use the DejaVu fonts.  In fact, fonts in Xorg feel much nicer to my eyes than ClearType.
[06:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: set the vert and horiz freq and set a modeline
[06:10] <Amaranth> Assid: I mean using vista fonts in linux
[06:10] <Amaranth> DanaG: also, 9.5 seems to make the fonts taller but not wider
[06:10] <DanaG> I hated when they got rid of the Legacy hinter.
[06:10] <Amaranth> might be because i'm using Consolas :)
[06:11] <Assid> i dont think im using vista fonts
[06:11] <Amaranth> heh, Liberation Mono is the other way around, wider than tall
[06:11] <Assid> i use dejavu sans
[06:12] <Assid> and its still messed up
[06:12] <Assid> even kvirc input text got messed
[06:12] <Amaranth> Assid: Try it with a clean xorg.conf and a clean user
[06:12] <DanaG> I'm using the Heron-remix wallpaper, with windeco using Tropic with red-button commented out, and Aurora engine with color set to #E48A34
[06:12] <Amaranth> Assid: If it's still messed up file a bug
[06:12] <DanaG> Look for a .fonts.conf, too.
[06:12] <Amaranth> DanaG: Oh hell I'm just using Clearlooks :P
[06:13] <assid2> okay
[06:14] <assid2> kvirc input is still messed
[06:14] <DanaG> I was using Nodoka with the Coming-Storm GDM background and selected_bg_color:#71718989a6a6,
[06:14] <DanaG> but I found it was making me feel rather gloomy.
[06:14] <DanaG> I changed to the nice bright orange, and my mood changed literally INSTANTLY!
[06:14] <assid2> however what i do notice is the OSD for audio increase/decrease from my keyboard.. shows the proper icon
[06:14] <assid2> the way it used to..
[06:15] <assid2> my other profile for some reason just shows me the audio level bar
[06:15] <DanaG> Funny thing: switch from metacity ↔ compiz and hit volume keys.  gnome-settings-daemon crashes
[06:15] <assid2> this might be related
[06:15] <assid2> okaty brb
[06:16] <Assid> another bug... when switching users..  and you logout of the 2nd user to come back to the first.. you get a white screen . this is apparently a locked screen where you type a password
[06:16] <Assid> no way for the user to know btw
[06:16] <Assid> its plain white
[06:17] <Assid> can someone make a screenshot of this: http://pienotech.com/
[06:17] <Assid> the fonts look horrible for me from the get go :(
[06:18] <Amaranth> Assid: that's an nvidia bug
[06:18] <Amaranth> the white screen
[06:18] <DanaG> SOmething to do with Firefox: set it to default to DejaVu and not allow other stuff.
[06:18] <Amaranth> i've loving dual monitors
[06:18] <DanaG> Something odd about my laptop: suspend works better if compiz is running before suspend.
[06:19] <Amaranth> oh shit
[06:19] <Amaranth> oh crap
[06:19] <Amaranth> i think yesterday was my sister's birthday
[06:19] <Amaranth> i was talking to her... :/
[06:20] <Amaranth> RAOF: did you ever try the static plugin?
[06:20] <RAOF> You _think_ yesterday was your sister's birthday?
[06:20] <AtomicSpark> anyone have import errors on rhythmbox? I have it set to watch folders but it just outputs cannot access errors. :-\
[06:20] <RAOF> Amaranth: Not yet.    If it's not it vcs it's not worth looknig at.
[06:22] <Amaranth> really neat effect for wall
[06:22]  * DanaG uses the cube.
[06:23] <DanaG> The cake is a lie, but the cube is forever!
[06:23] <RAOF> Amaranth: And possibly for "on all desktop" windows, too?
[06:23] <Amaranth> it sort of works for cube but it looks awkward
[06:23] <Amaranth> RAOF: i don't think there is a way to catch them all automatically with the match system
[06:25] <Amaranth> http://www.realistanew.com/random/desktop20080303.png <--dual monitor ftw
[06:25] <Assid> okay whats the "correct" thing thats supposed to happen with volume keys
[06:25] <Amaranth> they're supposed to change your volume?
[06:25] <Assid> is the OSDsupposed to show the volume bar ONLY or a proper OSDwith the speaker
[06:26] <Amaranth> depends on your theme, i guess
[06:26] <Assid> theme?
[06:27] <DanaG> Hmm, any benefit in Linux to getting a Quadro over a GeForce?
[06:27] <Amaranth> yes, that thing that controls how your desktop looks
[06:27] <Amaranth> DanaG: there really isn't in windows either
[06:27] <Assid> well.. im on human.. and it still doesnt show it
[06:27] <Amaranth> unless you need 10-bit colors or something
[06:27] <Assid> all i get is a bar
[06:27] <Amaranth> Assid: Software comes to you to die
[06:27] <DanaG> Well, there is in XP for AutoCAD and such, but I don't use them in my major.
[06:27] <Assid> apparently
[06:28] <Amaranth> Assid: I never want you to beta test anything I work on, I'd never ship :P
[06:28] <Assid> look at it this way
[06:28] <Assid> if it passes me
[06:28] <Assid> theres a good chance it wont break
[06:28] <Assid> okay your gmail fonts vs mine
[06:29] <Assid> mine look horrible
[06:29] <DanaG> I manually set the Legacy font filter, but it doesn't seem to work.
[06:29] <DanaG> I'm also using the firefox-3.0 ppa.
[06:29] <Amaranth> ppa? you're not using hardy?
[06:29] <Amaranth> oh, the hardy ppa has a font fix
[06:29] <Assid> ppa?
[06:30] <Assid> http://picpaste.com/screenshot2.png
[06:30] <RAOF> Urgh.  iwl3945, please suck less.
[06:30] <DanaG> Ooh, I thought of another fix for the edid thingy: dump the EDID of a good monitor, and then use override.
[06:30] <Assid> check that out
[06:31] <Assid> Amaranth: see the messy fonts
[06:31] <DanaG> Those look fine to me.
[06:31] <DanaG> screenshot2.
[06:32] <Amaranth> they look fine here too
[06:32] <Assid> see the last email
[06:32] <Assid> see the word "drafts"
[06:32] <Assid> the folders on the left
[06:32] <Amaranth> nope, looks fine
[06:32] <Assid> whats wrong with you people!?!?!
[06:33] <Amaranth> maybe a little smudged looking but that's because you seem to have no hinting
[06:33] <Amaranth> but i have no hinting either because i like OS X-type fonts
[06:33] <Assid> yes.. i want it like osx type fonts
[06:33] <DanaG> I liked the Feisty fonts better than anything else, myself.
[06:33] <Assid> how do i get that
[06:33] <Amaranth> Assid: That's what you seem to have
[06:33] <Assid> no man..
[06:33] <Assid> i got hinting on full
[06:33] <Assid> and the text fonts on the left for example look horrible
[06:33] <Amaranth> Assid: Which would imply your problem is not what the computer thinks it is drawing but what it displays
[06:33] <DanaG> Look for a ~/.fonts.conf
[06:34] <Assid> dont see that
[06:34] <Amaranth> maybe broken XRender acceleration
[06:34] <Assid> i see a .fontconfig
[06:34] <AtomicSpark> DanaG: Don't get a quatro. They're for people who design stuff. The drivers are updated rarely and it wouldn't be good for gaming. (and overpriced).
[06:34] <Amaranth> Assid: in xorg.conf in the Device section do Option "RenderAccel" "false"
[06:35] <Assid> okay brb
[06:35] <DanaG> Aah, with the 8510p and 8510w, the choice is Radeon, FireGL, or Quadro.
[06:35] <Amaranth> don't get a consumer HP laptop
[06:35] <Amaranth> get a business one or get one from somewhere else
[06:36] <AtomicSpark> oh wait.
[06:36] <AtomicSpark> ...
[06:36] <AtomicSpark> is Quadro their opengl line?
[06:36] <Amaranth> no...
[06:36] <DanaG> 8510p IS business one.
[06:36] <Amaranth> essentially all chips nvidia makes are quadros
[06:37] <DanaG> Oh yeah, is there anything wrong with the consumer ones?   :P
[06:40] <DanaG> I actually seem to see three or four layers:  shiny top, then color, then "primer", perhaps, then base white plastic.
[06:40] <Assid> Amaranth: you dont notice a difference in fonts betrween yours and mine
[06:40] <DanaG> Actually, that site DOS have reviews.
[06:40] <DanaG> DOES.
[06:40] <AtomicSpark> LIES
[06:40] <Amaranth> Assid: mine seem..sharper
[06:40] <AtomicSpark> i need to clean the oils off my laptop. so it wares slower.
[06:40] <Assid> right.. i need sharper fonts .. with proper hinting
[06:41] <Amaranth> Assid: which is odd because i use Lucida Grande with subpixel filtering and no hinting
[06:41] <Assid> my smaller fonts seem  to "bleed"
[06:41] <Amaranth> subpixel smoother, whatever
[06:41] <Amaranth> smoothing
[06:41] <AtomicSpark> do you have subpixel smoothing enabled on appearance > fonts?
[06:41] <Amaranth> bleh
[06:41] <Amaranth> he says it makes it look worse
[06:42] <Amaranth> which makes me think his system is _really_ broken
[06:42] <Assid> err disabling it makes it look worse
[06:42] <AtomicSpark> are you using the correct resolution for your monitor? no streachy?
[06:43] <Assid> 1680x1050
[06:43] <AtomicSpark> i really dont get these options. why do hinting: none, medium, slight, full change the size of the fonts?!
[06:44] <Assid> (II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1680 x 1050
[06:44] <DanaG> Oh, another odd thing: Medium and Full look EXACTLY the same to me.
[06:44] <Amaranth> it adjusts how much it should lock them to pixel boundaries
[06:44] <AtomicSpark> DanaG: doesn't change a thing on mine. slight makes it HUGE.
[06:44] <Assid> i dont like getting a headache
[06:45] <AtomicSpark> hmm.
[06:45] <AtomicSpark> i wonder why 96 dpi is standard
[06:45] <AtomicSpark> whats big fonts in windows? 120?
[06:47] <AtomicSpark> btw don't select high contrast, you can't go back easily.
[06:47] <Amaranth> RAOF: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=482354
[06:47] <ubotu> Gnome bug 482354 in general "gtk_window_present() causes full applications to move workspaces" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[06:48] <Assid> okay you guys have any suggestions?
[06:48] <AtomicSpark> for your screen thing?
[06:48] <AtomicSpark> try a different monitor?
[06:48] <Amaranth> Assid: I ran out of ideas some time ago
[06:49] <AtomicSpark> some monitors look different. :-\ i get used to one and then see another one and hate it or like it better lol.
[06:49]  * AtomicSpark has learned the truth about shiny screens
[06:49] <Assid> http://picpaste.com/pics/screenshot3.1204526969.png
[06:49] <Assid> okay thats a image
[06:50] <Assid> see the w of "which" , L of lucida  and f of filtering?
[06:51] <AtomicSpark> yeah the pixels look off
[06:51] <AtomicSpark> my L is one pixel wide
[06:51]  * AtomicSpark notices how blurry his w's are
[06:51] <Assid> see what i mean
[06:52] <AtomicSpark> no my w's are blurry because it has smoothing on lol.
[06:52] <Assid> i got smoothening on too
[06:52] <Assid> smoothng
[06:52] <Assid> bah
[06:52] <hwilde> that pic is fine for me
[06:53] <Assid> you dont see the L a little of?
[06:53] <hwilde> not at all
[06:53] <Assid> as in the sub pixel hinting
[06:53] <hwilde> as in it's perfectly rendered
[06:53] <AtomicSpark> his L is too fat!
[06:53] <AtomicSpark> don't lie!
[06:53] <hwilde> some ppl like em fatties
[06:53] <AtomicSpark> like your mom
[06:54] <Assid> you dont see the thin vertical for the L
[06:54] <AtomicSpark> i can't tell if i like subpixel smoothing or not
[06:54] <hwilde> no it looks perfect to me.
[06:54]  * Assid keeps a shotgun ready
[06:55] <Assid> okay so you want to explain to me why my fonts have become huge all of a sudden at the same time this happened
[06:55] <AtomicSpark> lol
[06:55] <Assid> http://picpaste.com/pics/screenshot4.1204527337.png
[06:55] <Assid> see the freenode written there
[06:56] <Assid> see how FAT it is
[06:56] <Assid> it all started at 1 go
[06:56] <AtomicSpark> yes
[06:56] <AtomicSpark> click details on the fonts page. what is it set at?
[06:57] <Assid> all
[06:57] <Assid> lol
[06:57] <AtomicSpark> full?
[06:57] <Assid> supposed to be for  subpixel smoothing.. but it thinks all
[06:57] <Assid> yeah
[06:57] <Assid> had it in full
[06:57] <Assid> tried medium
[06:57] <Assid> no difference
[06:58] <AtomicSpark> none and slight make it big. donno why.
[06:58] <Amaranth> hinting does different things with different fonts at different DPIs
[06:58] <Assid> ohhhh.. check this out
[06:58] <Assid> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot-Appearance_Preferences.1204527512.png
[06:59] <Amaranth> that's supposed to happen
[06:59] <Assid> all ?!?
[06:59] <AtomicSpark> HAHA
[06:59] <Amaranth> that's what happens when you tweak settings to a mode that none of those 4 things represents
[06:59] <Assid> its a radio button
[06:59] <Amaranth> you clicked on details and changed stuff
[07:00] <Amaranth> your settings don't match any of those 4 options anymore
[07:00] <AtomicSpark> Amaranth is correct. i just checked.
[07:00] <Assid> according to this.. neither hinting option will work
[07:00] <Assid> lol
[07:01] <Assid> none/slight/medium/full
[07:01] <Assid> all give me that
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> should be subpixel > full > RGB
[07:01] <DanaG> Hmm, pidgin deals very badly with suspend and resume.
[07:01] <Assid> right
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> > = +
[07:01] <Amaranth> ah, maybe it shouldn't be RGB
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> my suspend doesnt work
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> :(
[07:01] <Amaranth> some LCDs work differently
[07:01] <AtomicSpark> yes. RGB.
[07:01] <DanaG> Boom, sudden burst of 20 or so lines of conversation.
[07:02] <AtomicSpark> yes. foreign LCDs
[07:02] <AtomicSpark> lawl @ BGR.
[07:02] <Assid> viewsonic VA2226W
[07:02] <Assid> im telling yoiu it started acting up after some update
[07:02] <DanaG> Viewsonic does EDID badly, I seem to remember hearing.
[07:02] <AtomicSpark> yes
[07:03] <AtomicSpark> why not look up your res online? i think your res is off.
[07:03] <DanaG> or the DPI settings.
[07:03] <AtomicSpark> yes.
[07:03]  * AtomicSpark checks mine.
[07:04] <DanaG> aptitude changelog fontconfig
[07:05] <Amaranth> website says viewsonic VA2226W is 1680x1050
[07:05] <Assid> it is
[07:05] <Assid> thats native
[07:05] <Assid> works fine on windows
[07:05] <Amaranth> well, i don't think we got a new nvidia driver
[07:05] <Amaranth> so i'm at a loss
[07:06] <Assid> we did
[07:06] <Assid> Version: 169.12+<IP_ADDRESS>-11.29
[07:06] <hwilde> i've got a viewsonic  vg 2230 and the res is 1680x1050 widescreen
[07:06] <AtomicSpark> hmm.
[07:06] <AtomicSpark> i don't know. lol.
[07:07] <AtomicSpark> i'm just throwing things out there. :)
[07:07]  * Amaranth eats some gardetto's and ponders
[07:07] <Amaranth> oh, we did get the 169.12
[07:07] <Amaranth> hrm
[07:07] <Amaranth> try the old one?
[07:07] <Amaranth> RAOF: whoa, what's this linux-nouveau-modules stuff?
[07:08] <RAOF> Amaranth: What?  Where?
[07:08] <Amaranth> RAOF: i assume from your PPA
[07:08] <oxigen> can i set apt repository from some menu or only from /etc/apt/sources...?
[07:08] <RAOF> Amaranth: I desperately hope you're referring to my nouveau PPA :)
[07:08] <DanaG> Woah, 2 load cycles in 1 second.
[07:08] <Assid> okay see this:http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot_10.1204528109.png
[07:08] <Amaranth> oxigen: System->Administration->Software Sources
[07:08] <Amaranth> i can't click on that
[07:08] <Assid> see how the text inside there looks decent?
[07:09] <Assid> Amaranth: click on?
[07:09] <Amaranth> that link
[07:09] <AtomicSpark> why not?
[07:09] <oxigen> Amaranth: any idea why i dont have Software Sources there?
[07:09] <Amaranth> he typed it funny, xchat won't recognize it
[07:09] <Assid> no space between : and http
[07:09] <Assid> rofl
[07:09] <Assid> okay dont click
[07:10] <AtomicSpark> what is that thing on the bottom? how do you have a "dock"? D:
[07:10] <RAOF> oxigen: Because you don't have software-sources-gtk installed?
[07:10] <Amaranth> oxigen: you're not using Ubuntu but rather Kubuntu or Xubuntu?
[07:10] <AtomicSpark> how do i get my linux widgets on my desktop?!
[07:10] <oxigen> Amaranth: ubuntu
[07:10] <oxigen> hmm, software-sources-gtk...
[07:10] <Assid> okay what about the "bold" fonts
[07:10] <Amaranth> oxigen: then what RAOF said, you apparently uninstalled it
[07:10] <Assid> why'd they come
[07:10] <RAOF> Amaranth: Yeah, from my PPA that's OK.  You need the nouveau drm kernel modules, and linux-nouveau-modules seemed the easiest way to do that.  At some point I'll convert that to some modules-assistant fun to help the guy who wants nouveau in Debian experimental.
[07:11] <AtomicSpark> Assid: your min/max/close buttons on the background window look funny
[07:11] <AtomicSpark> :P
[07:11] <Assid> semi transparent.. more windows behind
[07:11] <AtomicSpark> ah.
[07:11] <Amaranth> you're using compiz?
[07:11] <Assid> yep
[07:11] <AtomicSpark> yes.
[07:11] <Amaranth> ok, this is getting really annoying, pulseaudio hates me
[07:12] <Amaranth> Assid: but no shadows
[07:12] <Amaranth> every time my CPU does any sudden increase in work (even jumping from 3% to 15% my audio stutters)
[07:12] <RAOF> Amaranth: In what way?  Alsa (or, particularly, l-u-m) was hating me for a while.
[07:12] <Assid> and thats bad?
[07:12] <Amaranth> every time someone says my name in xchat-gnome and it beeps my audio stutters
[07:12]  * AtomicSpark wants to know about the desktop widgets
[07:13] <Amaranth> what desktop widgets?
[07:13] <RAOF> That's really obnoxious.  You're in the pulse-rt group and all that fun, I presume?
[07:13] <Amaranth> pulseaudio is running as root
[07:13] <Amaranth> /etc/init.d/pulseaudio
[07:13] <AtomicSpark> on that picture. the things on the bottom.
[07:13] <Amaranth> i modified the initscript to start it
[07:13] <Amaranth> AtomicSpark: that's just a dock
[07:13] <DanaG> Why?  If you run it as root, you can't control it with the padevchooser, I think.
[07:14] <AtomicSpark> well :P
[07:14] <Assid> okay here
[07:14] <Amaranth> RAOF: so does that mean your nouveau is gallium enabled now?
[07:14] <Assid> a screenshot with windows and linux fonts on google website
[07:14] <Assid> http://picpaste.com/pics/Screenshot-1_4.1204528474.png
[07:14] <Assid> see "Maps" for example
[07:15] <RAOF> Amaranth: No.  Although it's getting tempting.
[07:15] <Assid> for some reason linux firefox decides "web"  should be bold
[07:15] <Assid> and when i say bold. i mean BOLD!!!
[07:15] <DanaG> Stupid load_cycle_count increase.
[07:16] <Assid> aieee.. he left
[07:16] <Assid> err do you guys have volume keys on your keyboard
[07:17] <Assid> do you get OSD showing audio volume there?or a proper OSDwith a speaker and everythiung?
[07:17] <DanaG> Oh, and my hard drive doesn't EVER spin down.
[07:17] <AtomicSpark> you know firefox win and firefox linux use differnt fonts right?
[07:17] <Assid> AtomicSpark: yeah. im just saying my fonts arent clear on linux since the past week or so
[07:17] <Assid> you saw the previous one with freenode on the left (kvirc)?
[07:17] <AtomicSpark> yeah.
[07:18] <Assid> 1/2 of my fonts are super bold
[07:18] <Assid> like they are on drugs or something
[07:18] <AtomicSpark> lawl.
[07:18] <AtomicSpark> i dont know what to tell you.
[07:19] <Assid> i cant even make a bug report for  this
[07:19] <ysth1> Assid: my volume keys stopped working recently
[07:19] <Assid> hrmm
[07:19] <ysth1> ditto mute
[07:19] <ysth1> recently = 1-2 weeks ago, maybe
[07:19] <Assid> i have to run keytouch everytime i reboot now
[07:19] <Assid> but check this out
[07:20] <ysth1> hmm, I didn't even have keytouch installed, whatever it is
[07:20] <Assid> needed it for my keyboard
[07:22] <oxigen> RAOF, Amaranth: thanks. software-properties-gtk was missing
[07:22] <oxigen> dunno how
[07:22] <Amaranth> well, i'm stupid
[07:22] <Amaranth> my server/build machine is currently getting its internet connection from my laptop via wireless
[07:22] <Amaranth> so my laptop is setup to do "internet connection sharing" and run as a sort of server
[07:23] <Amaranth> so what happens when i restart the laptop?
[07:23] <Amaranth> I lose all connections to the server and it's running headless
[07:23] <Assid> http://www.imageshack.us/?pickup=80112304954541
[07:23] <Assid> okay check that
[07:23] <Assid> i think its gone loco
[07:23] <Assid> its supposed to show me a nice OSD.. with a speaker.. and the waves
[07:23] <Assid> instead i get that bar
[07:24] <Amaranth> that is not even gnome-settings-daemon
[07:24] <Amaranth> something else took over control of those keys
[07:24] <DanaG> File upload seems to be abandoned by sender
[07:24] <Assid> Amaranth: ?
[07:24] <Amaranth> gnome-settings-daemon doesn't show a percentage like that
[07:24] <Amaranth> that is a completely different program drawing that window
[07:24] <Amaranth> you are running something that has taken over handling volume keys
[07:25] <Amaranth> if i had to guess i'd say it's that goofy dock
[07:25] <Assid> awn ?
[07:25] <Assid> nah
[07:25]  * Amaranth crosses fingers and hopes his server comes up
[07:25] <Assid> used to work with it
[07:25] <Amaranth> phew it came up alright
[07:25] <Assid> is there a way to "simulate" those buttons?
[07:25] <Amaranth> Assid: dunno what to tell you but there is no bug there
[07:25] <Assid> wait
[07:25] <DanaG> "File upload seems to be abandoned by sender"
[07:26] <Amaranth> something you installed has simply taken over control
[07:26] <Assid> DanaG:  yea.. weird. hold on
[07:26] <DanaG> No picture.
[07:26] <Assid> http://www.imageshack.us/?pickup=80112305088647
[07:26] <AtomicSpark> could you imagine being blind? :-\ (sortof on-topic)
[07:26] <Assid> its a xvid video
[07:26] <Amaranth> and the server can still get out to the internet, yay
[07:26] <Amaranth> that was scary, gotta remember to shut that thing down before the laptop
[07:27] <Assid> see what i mean
[07:27] <DanaG> hmm, swapper, exim4, pdflush keep waking the drive.
[07:27] <DanaG>  File upload seems to be abandoned by sender
[07:27] <DanaG>
[07:28] <RAOF> Amaranth: You need the kernel drm modules to run nouveau at all (that being one of the big points with kernel modesetting and all)
[07:28] <Assid> DanaG: weird!
[07:28] <Assid> okay quick question
[07:28] <Assid> isnt this supposed to be mapped to amixer - volume increase?
[07:29] <AtomicSpark> okay! i can't take any more of assid. lols jk. night all.
[07:29] <Amaranth> I too can no longer do this
[07:29] <Amaranth> I need to get some work done today
[07:29] <Assid> hehe
[07:29] <Assid> still havent got my fonts fixed:(
[07:30] <Assid> cowards!!!
[07:30] <hwilde> what started all of this
[07:30] <Assid> fonts not working ? who knows
[07:30] <hwilde> but they were working ?
[07:30] <hwilde> or they never worked
[07:30] <Assid> used to yes
[07:30] <hwilde> ok then what changed
[07:30] <Assid> by working i mean "getting messed up now"
[07:31] <hwilde> what action immediately preceeded the fonts stopping working
[07:32] <Assid> updates
[07:32] <Assid> same time gdm ended with larger fonts
[07:32] <hwilde> do you know which updates specifically?
[07:33] <Assid> nope..
[07:33] <hwilde> people here will go a long way to help you troubleshoot, but you have to have some basic building blocks...
[07:33] <Assid> its around the same time gdm got the big fonts
[07:33] <Assid> which apparently people notice
[07:33] <Assid> DanaG: http://assid.com/volume.avi
[07:34] <Assid> the  bar intead of OSD
[07:34] <DanaG> That's not gnome-settings-daemon, for sure.
[07:34] <hwilde> sounds like a profile setting...
[07:34] <hwilde> can you make a new user and see if you have the same issues
[07:35] <Assid> other user doesnt have this problem
[07:35] <Assid> the osd issue i.e.
[07:35] <Assid> fonts yes
[07:35] <hwilde> ok well that pretty much tells you where to look for osd
[07:35] <hwilde> its in your profile settings
[07:36] <hwilde> probably .osd or something
[07:36] <Assid> so this happens often?
[07:36] <Assid> profile corruption?
[07:36] <hwilde> it's not corrupt
[07:37] <hwilde> it's... modified by the user in a way that the user does not prefer
[07:37] <hwilde> you know this is beta right... ?
[07:37] <Assid> i didnt do it :(
[07:37] <Assid> yeah i know
[07:37] <Assid> my main issue is the fonts really
[07:38] <Assid> im not going blind for no software
[07:38] <hwilde> well you see in the topic where is says "update without checking what is to be updated"
[07:38] <hwilde> that is so you can undo stuff when it breaks
[07:38] <hwilde> I don't know which update broke your fonts but if you can figure it out just roll it back to the previous version and you'll be fine
[07:39] <Assid> err ive had tons of updates.. nvidia-glx-new .. xorg.. fontconfig..
[07:39] <Assid> already reported another bug:https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/197875
[07:39] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197875 in ubuntu "[hardy]desktop incons sometimes do not load. If I CTRL ALT BKSPC it shows again" [Undecided,New]
[07:40] <Assid> one more thing
[07:40] <Assid> is it common for the fonts to "dance" as you highlight them?
[07:40] <Assid> like pixel shifting?
[07:40] <hwilde> in beta software sure there are tons of unexpected behaviors
[07:40] <hwilde> that's part of the fun
[07:41] <Assid> hehe yeah i know
[07:41] <hwilde> if it all just worked we wouldnt need beta testing
[07:41] <hwilde> maybe you would be more happy sticking with the stable system
[07:41] <hwilde> you can dual-boot feisty you know
[07:41] <Assid> decided i might as well do some testing if i expect it to work on my machine "stable"
[07:41] <Amaranth> stable means "doesn't change"
[07:41] <Amaranth> not "bug free"
[07:43] <hwilde> I mean if you are going to run hardy and get all the updates you shouldn't use that for your main system
[07:43] <hwilde> you should keep another partition that acutally works so when hardy breaks you don't spend hours on here asking why
[07:43] <hwilde> that's what I mean by 'stable'
[07:45] <Assid> hrmm
[07:45] <Assid> oh your gonne love this
[07:46] <Assid> keep your eyes on the same line as the text being hilighted
[07:46] <Assid> http://www.assid.com/pixelshift.avi
[07:47] <Assid> see the text dancing?
[07:47] <hwilde> riiight
[07:47] <hwilde> I am gonna click on your video
[07:47] <hwilde> what do u think I am stupid
[07:47] <Assid> ?
[07:48] <hwilde> I like my system stable thanks
[07:48] <Assid> wtf will a video do?
[07:48] <Assid> apparently it has something to do how hilighted "space" is handled
[07:49] <hwilde> there is zero chance of me executing that video from your website
[07:49] <Assid> you want me to upload it to launchpad?
[07:49] <Assid> you do realize your on linux
[07:49] <hwilde> your lack of paranoia leads me to believe you probably have viruses
[07:50] <Assid> viruses?linux ? you sniffing gas?!
[07:51] <hwilde> i'm not sniffing gas, but i'm also not clicking some executable from some random irc guy who's system is broken
[07:51] <Gnine> gnome settings deamon is acting up
[07:51] <hwilde> good luck with your font issue... just make a bug post they will fix it
[07:51] <Assid> roflmao!!
[07:52] <Gnine> @lart hwilde because of virus
[07:52] <DanaG> Dang, 80013 load cycles in 1220 hours.
[07:52] <Assid> DanaG: ?
[07:53] <DanaG> SMART data on hard drive.
[07:57] <Assid> anyone wanna confirm that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/197903
[07:57] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 197903 in ubuntu "fonts pixel shifting on hilight" [Undecided,New]
[07:59] <Assid> DanaG: load cycles?
[08:00] <DanaG> Wow, 4 load cycles in less than a minute.
[08:00] <DanaG> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/104535
[08:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 104535 in ubuntu "Default HD power management settings will kill drive (dup-of: 59695)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[08:00] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 59695 in laptop-mode-tools "High frequency of load/unload cycles on some hard disks may shorten lifetime" [Unknown,In progress]
[08:00] <NoWhereMan> hi guys
[08:01] <NoWhereMan> I'm trying to rebuild an image to test an upstream patch
[08:01] <Assid> for no apparent reason i get loads
[08:01] <NoWhereMan> as I have already built the kernel once with debian/rules binary-generic
[08:01] <DanaG> 5 in under a minute.  What keeps waking my hard drive?
[08:02] <Assid> goes to 25% (quad core.. so 1 cpu)
[08:02] <NoWhereMan> can I rebuild incrementally from where I left?
[08:02] <Assid> DanaG:  tick tock ?
[08:02] <Assid> okay im outta here.. bbl
[08:03] <DanaG> Wow, in 5 or 10 seconds, I got 3.
[08:04] <DanaG> Oddly, I can call it once and get one value, and then immediately call it again and get another increase.
[08:05] <_ruben> NoWhereMan: there's ccache .. c compiler that caches stuff that hasnt changed between compile runs .. never used it myself tho
[08:07] <NoWhereMan> _ruben, doesn't make rebuild files that changed on his own? it's just that if re-run debian/rules it starts packaging without rebuilding :/
[08:09] <DanaG> Those load cycles are increasing ridiculously much.
[08:13] <_ruben> NoWhereMan: then whats the problem?
[08:14] <NoWhereMan> _ruben, the problem is that I would expect it to first rebuild the files that I have patched
[08:15] <_ruben> NoWhereMan: perhaps the patching is flawed? like just adding new files without altering others so they dont get referenced?
[08:17] <NoWhereMan> _ruben, I don't think so, I'm manually patching file1.c file2.c; no new file is added
[08:20] <_ruben> NoWhereMan: strange .. unless you're editing in a flakey way (not updating timestamps), i wouldnt a reason for it not to be rebuilt
[08:21] <NoWhereMan> _ruben, I'm using this line:
[08:21] <NoWhereMan>  AUTOBUILD=1 NOEXTRAS=1 fakeroot debian/rules binary-generic
[08:21] <NoWhereMan> but I've tried removing the env vars to see what happened
[08:21] <NoWhereMan> it started packaging anyway
[08:22] <NoWhereMan> maybe I could try touching the file :/
[08:22] <_ruben> weird .. tho must admit that i dont have very much experience building deb packages
[08:22] <_ruben> yet
[08:22] <_ruben> yt
[08:22] <RAOF> NoWhereMan: debian/rules is a make file, and you're calling the binary-generic target.  It's probable that binary-generic doesn't depend on any of the files you've touched.
[08:23] <NoWhereMan> oh!
[08:23] <RAOF> In fact, that it's not dependent on _any_ of the kernel files, just a "I've built everything" stamp.
[08:23] <NoWhereMan> which is.....? :D
[08:23] <NoWhereMan> I mean
[08:23] <NoWhereMan> which is the timestamp?
[08:23] <NoWhereMan> where does it read it from?
[08:23] <RAOF> You could remove the stamp file, but I'm not sure what that file is; you'd need to read the makefile.
[08:25] <DanaG> Wow, 65.6 load cycles per hour.
[08:25] <hwilde> DanaG, how are you seeing this data
[08:26] <DanaG> sudo smartctl -A /dev/sda | grep Cyc
[08:27] <Gnine> load avg. here is going off the roof
[08:27] <NoWhereMan> arrrrgh find /media/hda2/store/linux-source/linux-2.6.24/debian/build/build-generic -name "*.ko" | xargs rm -f
[08:27] <NoWhereMan> lol
[08:27] <NoWhereMan> well it almost worked
[08:27] <hwilde> !find smartctl gutsy
[08:28] <ubotu> File smartctl found in munin-node, smartmontools
[08:28] <DanaG> oddly enough, nether 254 nor 255 disables the cycling.
[08:29] <hwilde> mine says Power_Cycle_Count 87
[08:29] <hwilde> is that a lot
[08:29] <NoWhereMan> RAOF, ok, found, I had to comment a line though, because it first rm -f all the "*.ko"s; thank you
[08:30] <NoWhereMan> ouch, too soon, it says dir not clean -.-
[08:30] <NoWhereMan> oh well looks I'll have to rebuld from the ground up again
[08:31] <oxigen> dang, this distro is really cool! it looks i will finally have 64 bit distro without pain :) thanks guys!
[08:32] <maxxer> anyone using f-spot here?
[08:33] <oxigen> is there some menu way to disable compiz or is metacity only option?
[08:33] <Assid> 193 Load_Cycle_Count        0x0032   200   200   000    Old_age   Always       -       426
[08:33] <DanaG> Hmm, I can hear it click once per 5 seconds.
[08:34] <Assid> DanaG:  drive giving way
[08:34] <oxigen> Assid: is this seagate?
[08:34] <Assid> oxigen: western digital
[08:34] <panosru> Hello! :D Does Mouse over preview of MP3 work for you in Hardy? thanks in advance!
[08:34] <Assid> why is it bad?
[08:34] <Nubae> I've downloaded the vmware-package and the server and workstation from vmware site
[08:34] <DanaG> Nope, my drive is a relatively new (got it just before Thanksgiving) Hitachi 7K200-200.
[08:35] <Nubae> not how do I use make-vmpkg to debianise?
[08:35] <Assid> DanaG:  is 426 bad ?
[08:35] <Assid> is that per hour ?
[08:35] <DanaG> Just 426. or some number of zeroes after it?
[08:36] <Assid> thats it ..e xactly as a pasted it
[08:36] <DanaG> That's amazingly low for load cycle count, actually.
[08:36] <Assid> hrmm sweet
[08:38] <Assid> i just installed smartctl btw
[08:38] <Assid> err smartmontools
[08:38] <Assid> http://assid.pastebin.com/d498fc268
[08:39] <DanaG> Wow, the ticking is pretty durn regular.  Idle for 5 seconds, unloads heads; 5 seconds later, reloads heads.
[08:39] <hwilde> sounds like it is overflowing the buffer repeatedly
[08:39] <hwilde> then it stops and waits then it overflows again
[08:43] <Assid> DanaG: nothing wrong with that one right
[08:43] <Assid> the other one is pretty bad actually
[08:43] <Assid> it doesnt show load cycle count
[08:48] <DanaG> Even if I set my hard drive to spin down after 5 seconds, it does not.
[08:48] <DanaG> Odd.
[09:25] <Nubae> how do I use make-vmpkg to debianise?ç
[10:16] <h3sp4wn> Does anyone in here use a Sun keyboard (UNIX layout) with ubuntu (or Linux in general)
[10:19] <mohbana> how do i get a list of all packages INSTALLED that contain the word 'font'
[10:21] <h3sp4wn> aptitude search font\~i
[10:21] <kalatian> mohbana: use synaptic to search for the word font, and sort them by installed status
[10:21] <hwilde> Amaranth, lol this is like parallel universe
[10:21] <Amaranth> hwilde: haha
[10:22] <hwilde> X is not crashing it's fine
[10:22] <hwilde> it's metacity as far as I can narrow it down
[10:22] <hwilde> and I don't think it's the driver because I can play full screen games for hours with no problems
[10:22] <hwilde> it's very fast
[10:22] <Amaranth> are you sure you are using metacity?
[10:22] <Amaranth> compiz is the default
[10:23] <Amaranth> and as i said, only a driver can lock X or the system
[10:23] <Amaranth> compiz uses the driver in a way most driver developers never really tested heavily before
[10:23] <hwilde> well there are only a couple things
[10:23] <hwilde> if I drag a window and move my mouse around real fast, I can see the cpu spike, then the system locks up
[10:23] <hwilde> and if a pdf jumps to full screen it locks up pretty hard
[10:24] <Amaranth> it is your driver
[10:24] <hwilde> it's like a race between the video card and the cpu and htey crush each other
[10:24] <hwilde> you say that, but I can do much more intensive things with the driver with no problem
[10:24] <hwilde> that makes me believe it is the coding in the window manager
[10:25] <mohbana> apt-cache search font ... then?
[10:25] <hwilde> also, using the Same driver, in icewm I have no issues
[10:25] <Amaranth> and i'm telling you i know something about how this system works, the WM cannot crash the system
[10:25] <hwilde> ok how do you explain it doesn't crash in icewm
[10:25] <hwilde> it is using the same driver.
[10:25] <hwilde> the only difference is the window manager
[10:25] <Amaranth> you are obviously using compiz
[10:25] <Amaranth> not metacity
[10:25] <hwilde> hmm
[10:25] <hwilde> if you say so that's fine
[10:25] <Amaranth> compiz is an OpenGL compositing window manager
[10:26] <hwilde> somebody once told me metacity --replace
[10:26] <Amaranth> do you have shadows? do you get cool animations when you minimize stuff?
[10:26] <hwilde> no I turned all of that off
[10:26] <Amaranth> regular WMs are just...WMs
[10:26] <hwilde> but if my driver works fine with other wms and with fullscreen graphics then the driver is fine and the problem is in the wm
[10:26] <Amaranth> the only thing metacity could do to you is stop letting you move windows
[10:26] <Amaranth> *sigh*
[10:27] <Amaranth> whatever, nothing to fix it will ever happen in the WM
[10:27] <h3sp4wn> hwilde: agreed - no one cares about doing things right (except the people working on e17)
[10:27] <Amaranth> you're all out to get me
[10:27] <Amaranth> it's a conspiracy, i tell you
[10:28] <hwilde> but I am still convinced the issue is specific to the wm
[10:28] <hwilde> I think the driver is fine
[10:28] <hwilde> maybe there is no update for compiz to help and I need the nouveau driver to accommodate the bugs in the wm
[10:28] <Amaranth> hwilde: Listen to me. As far as the X server cares the WM is just another client
[10:28] <hwilde> but don't tell me it's the driver's fault if other wms work fine and full screen 3d graphics works fine
[10:28] <Amaranth> An X client cannot crash your system unless it hits a bug in the X server or the driver
[10:29] <hwilde> I think it overloads the buffers
[10:29] <Amaranth> Which means your bug is either in the X server itself or the driver
[10:29] <Amaranth> The driver is much more likely to be the location
[10:29] <hwilde> no I think the wm cues up a billion operations and eventually the video card and the cpu would crunch them
[10:30] <Amaranth> moving a window around rapidly is always CPU intensive, unless you're using a compositor
[10:30] <hwilde> but I can do much more intensive video graphics operations than dragging a window around
[10:30] <Amaranth> which, incidentally, is the main reason compositors exist
[10:30] <hwilde> this tells me the driver and the graphics card are fine and the issue is specific to that wm
[10:30] <hwilde> admit you are biased and defending compiz
[10:30] <Amaranth> And I'm telling you you are a moron
[10:30] <Amaranth> Matter settled.
[10:30] <hwilde> why do you have to be like that
[10:31] <Amaranth> If you were using compiz it is possible for compiz to make the system appear to be locked up. But you say you are using metacity
[10:31] <RAOF> Because he has a good working knowledge of the full stack; compiz, metacity, X and the drivers.
[10:31] <Amaranth> So the WM cannot be the thing that crashes the system
[10:31] <hwilde> well it might be compiz, whatever the default is
[10:32] <Amaranth> You said you had no effects
[10:32] <hwilde> right I turned them all off
[10:32] <kalatian> did you disable compiz entirely, or just turn off the effects?
[10:32] <Amaranth> Although, again, locks of times when compiz gets "stuck" and I look at where in the code it got stuck it happens inside libGL which is the nvidia driver.
[10:32] <mohbana> kalatian, apt-cache search font ... then?
[10:32] <hwilde> if I just run startx it doesn't crash
[10:32] <hwilde> if I then run metacity --replace  it will crash
[10:33] <hwilde> with the default install, it crashes
[10:33] <hwilde> with icewm it does not crash
[10:33] <Amaranth> hwilde: How about kwin 4 with compositing enabled? Does that crash?
[10:33] <hwilde> with the default install, starting a full screen game, it does not crash
[10:33] <Amaranth> You may have accidentally enabled compositing in metacity too
[10:33] <kalatian> mohbana: I'd suggest you use the other suggestion if you want a command: aptitude search font\~i
[10:33] <hwilde> I dunno how do I get kwin
[10:33] <hwilde> is that kde4 ?
[10:33] <Amaranth> sudo apt-get install kwin-kde4
[10:34] <hwilde> kde is fine.  which doesn't make any sense because it's supposed to be heavier
[10:34] <hwilde> yeah I tried that it's fine
[10:34] <Amaranth> you'll need systemsettings-kde4 too
[10:34] <Amaranth> did you go into systemsettings and turn on compositing?
[10:34] <hwilde> nope never heard of it
[10:35] <Amaranth> RAOF: http://www.fooishbar.org/blog/tech/x/brokenCards-2007-10-08-18-44.html
[10:35] <Amaranth> hehe
[10:35] <Amaranth> daniels flooded the planet, must have updated his blog software
[10:35] <Amaranth> that came back out
[10:36] <oxigen> i like compiz, but i have problems with blender & compiz, it looks they fight for full screen..
[10:36] <hwilde> the other thing that locks it up is if a pdf opens up full screen
[10:36] <hwilde> i'm like phobic clicking on weblinks now afraid it will crash
[10:36] <Amaranth> oxigen: This is one of the things I'm hoping to figure out soon :)
[10:36] <oxigen> yea! cool! :)
[10:37] <hwilde> I caught myself at work on a completely different (stable) system hesitating to maximize a window lol
[10:39] <RAOF> Amaranth: Heh.
[10:41] <robn> Hi all, has anyone had any success getting an RTL8187 wireless chip to work out of the box on Hardy yet? Supposedly the new kernel (any post 2.6.23) work with the native driver.
[10:41] <hwilde> http://www.bloganything.net/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/bill-promote-ubuntu.jpg
[10:41] <oxigen> but i really wonder why default FF plugin for java still doesnt work!? (IcedTea)
[10:41] <oxigen> isnt java free now?
[10:41] <oxigen> or something... :)
[10:42] <oxigen> what to use blackdown?
[10:42] <oxigen> it used to work..
[10:42] <oxigen> hmm
[10:42] <h3sp4wn> Use a 32 bit firefox
[10:42] <oxigen> but flash is ok now!
[10:42] <h3sp4wn> and 32 bit java and flash I know that works 100%
[10:42] <hwilde> robn, realtek has linux drivers on their website... http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?Langid=1&PNid=1&PFid=1&Level=6&Conn=5&DownTypeID=3&GetDown=false&Downloads=true#RTL8187L
[10:42] <h3sp4wn> nspluginwrapper is a hack
[10:43] <oxigen> hmm, 32bit java ,huh!
[10:43] <kalatian> icedtea works fine for me -- but you have to do something special, add a different repo or something
[10:43] <oxigen> is there some cool howto around!? :)
[10:43] <robn> hwilde: thanks, i know, but these are supposedly now built into the latest kernel and was wondering if anyone had any success. i've been using ndiswrapper but would prefer to use native
[10:43] <kalatian> ...so not out of the box, sadly
[10:43] <kalatian> (at least not on gutsy)
[10:44] <h3sp4wn> oxigen: sun only supports webstart and the plugin atm on 32 bit
[10:44] <mohbana> yeh they need to fix the icedtea plugin
[10:44] <h3sp4wn> (even on Solaris - if it was ready it would be in Opensolaris already)
[10:44] <oxigen> i have no idea now what is 32 now here for flash player on this 64bit thing..
[10:45] <h3sp4wn> the flashplayer
[10:45] <h3sp4wn> unless adobe actually did release a native one - I doubt that
[10:45] <oxigen> i would like to install that way java plugin too! :)
[10:45] <h3sp4wn> You cannot - nspluginwrapper doesn't support ns7 plygins
[10:46] <oxigen> hmm
[10:46] <h3sp4wn> maybe you can find a version of java that has a ns4 plugin somwhere
[10:46] <robn> hwilde: have you used the drivers off the realtek site yourself?
[10:46] <oxigen> what then to install 32bit FF?
[10:47] <h3sp4wn> sudo tar xf firefox-whatever.tar.gz /opt
[10:48] <hwilde> robn, no I don't have that card
[11:30] <n0yd> Anyone having issues with 404 errors on some of the repos at the moment?
[11:32] <yusuo> ijust updated to 8.04 and one of my packages crashed along the way, now its prompting me to update the package but i cant, i want to remove the package so i stop getting these warning
[11:32] <yusuo> ijust updated to 8.04 and one of my packages crashed along the way, now its prompting me to update the package but i cant, i want to remove the package so i stop getting these warning
[11:32] <rsk> !spam yusuo
[11:32] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about spam yusuo - try searching on http://ubotu.ubuntu-nl.org/factoids.cgi
[11:32] <n0yd> dude, no reason to ask more than once
[11:33] <rsk> what package
[11:34] <yusuo> sorry i accidently paste twice sorry guys
[11:34] <yusuo> can anyone help me though
[11:35] <Milos_SD> what package?
[11:36] <yusuo> deskbar-applet
[11:36] <yusuo> always says corrupt when i try and download
[11:36] <Milos_SD> :S I did the update of that package today, and had no problems :S
[11:37] <yusuo> hang on ill try again
[11:37] <yusuo> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/deskbar-applet_2.21.92-0ubuntu1_i386.deb: subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
[11:38] <yusuo> thats what i get when i try and update
[11:38] <yusuo> what do u suggest i do, download the package manually and install
[11:40] <yusuo> hi how would i go about install a program from a tar.gz file
[11:44] <yusuo> plz can someone just talk me through this i keep on getting errors when i run ./configure
[11:45] <hit> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=369285
[11:45] <hit> happening again (?)
[11:45] <hit> found a solution tho..
[11:50] <yusuo> everytime i try and download a tar.bz2 file and get round to compiling it gives me an error while im doing ./configure any ideas anyone
[11:51] <h3sp4wn> !b-e
[11:51] <ubotu> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first)
[12:00] <Hobbsee> yusuo: so, fix the compiling error.
[12:34] <slytherin> Is anyone using ftp via nautilus here?
[12:36] <napsy_> hm why doesn't nautilus create thumbs of video files?
[12:37] <Pici> It doesnt do it by default if the files are on remote hosts.
[12:39] <napsy_> files are local
[13:05] <slytherin> napsy_: What types of files are they?
[13:05] <slytherin> napsy_: I mean which codec specifically?
[13:06] <napsy_> hm avi
[13:06] <napsy_>  RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 512 x 384, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (stereo, 48000 Hz)
[13:07] <slytherin> napsy_: I am surprised. I have faced problem only for wmv
[13:07] <slytherin> napsy_: What player are you using to play them?
[13:07] <napsy_> mplayer
[13:08] <h3sp4wn> what implies wmv about that ?@
[13:08] <h3sp4wn> avi = container - codec = xvid
[13:09] <slytherin> napsy_: Oh then the problem might be that you haven't installed necessary gstreamer plugins and hence totem-video-thumbnailer is not working.
[13:09] <napsy_> hm
[13:09] <slytherin> h3sp4wn: Who said those were WMV files?
[13:13] <h3sp4wn> implied to me by you
[13:13] <h3sp4wn> (and the fact that I have the same issue only with wmv)
[13:14] <h3sp4wn> napsy_: You can just pay for the legal codecs if you want from fluendo
[13:14] <h3sp4wn> (and indirectly support them doing gstreamer development)
[13:14] <napsy_> ?
[13:15] <h3sp4wn> https://shop.fluendo.com/product_info.php?products_id=42&osCsid=r57idgt4d6om90qn5c31qu57h0
[13:16] <napsy_> yes i know but why would I do that
[13:16] <valberg> hey
[13:16] <h3sp4wn> napsy_: Why not ?
[13:16] <valberg> i'm getting a wierd error when running update-manager,
[13:16] <valberg> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us_2.3.1-1_all.deb: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation
[13:17] <h3sp4wn> 28 EUR is nothing - and if you watch alot of videos then the quality difference would certainly be worth it
[13:17] <napsy_> h3sp4wn: well firts i have no spare money and second, codecs work for me
[13:17] <h3sp4wn> (if the free mp3 codec is anything to go by)
[13:17] <napsy_> yea and 28 eu is a lot for me
[13:17] <slytherin> valberg: I have faced same problem. Check if there exists a bug for that
[13:18] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> seems like some mirrors are out of date
[13:27] <slytherin> [Hardy]TuTUXG: which one?
[13:29] <Nubae> hmmm...  just did a apt-get upgrade and my dhcp server broke completley... says I should check syslog, but greping for dhcp gives me nothing
[13:29] <slytherin> Nubae: which server is it?
[13:29] <Nubae> dhcp3-server
[13:30] <Nubae> hardy was working great till the last update, and I've been upgrading every 3 or 4 days
[13:32] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, some of them, have heard that people couldnt get the latest updates
[13:33] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, as that ooo-hyphenation error should be fixed a few days ago
[13:33] <slytherin> [Hardy]TuTUXG: I am using the main mirror and that error is not fixed even there.
[13:34] <slytherin> Nubae: Can you explain what is 'broke completely'?
[13:34] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, afaik, the main mirror will pick the nearest mirror it can find
[13:35] <slytherin> [Hardy]TuTUXG: No that is not the case.
[13:35] <slytherin> [Hardy]TuTUXG: All the mirror sync with main mirror at different intervals.
[13:35] <slytherin> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Do you have any link to changelog or upload which says that issue is fixed
[13:36] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, i got that bug fixed
[13:36] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, there should be a bug report on launchpad
[13:38] <slytherin> [Hardy]TuTUXG: Will check. Because I faced the problem even today
[13:44] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, bug 192310
[13:44] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192310 in hyphen "package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192310
[13:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> slytherin, there are fixes, no official fix yet
[13:45] <[Hardy]TuTUXG> sorry i was wrong
[13:47] <Nubae> slytherin, dhcpd3-server will not startup
[13:47] <Nubae> and tells me to look at diagnostics in syslog
[13:47] <Nubae> which shows nothing
[13:47] <slytherin> Nubae: what grep command did you use?
[13:48] <Nubae> grep dhcp
[13:48] <slytherin> Nubae: how about grep -i dhcp
[13:48] <Nubae> will try that later, I restarted in gutsy for now as this is a production server
[13:49] <Nubae> and I run ltsp so dhcp is essential
[13:49] <Nubae> what is the -i flag for?
[13:49] <slytherin> Nubae: ignore case
[14:10] <pwuertz> hi, my gnome-terminal fonts are looking weird since I upgraded to hardy...
[14:10] <pwuertz> apparently it uses some different type of anti-aliasing
[14:11] <pwuertz> in contrast to all other applications
[14:11] <slytherin> pwuertz: try changing it from System->Preferences->Appearance
[14:13] <pwuertz> slytherin: it does not have any effect :/
[14:13] <pwuertz> even when I change the font settings in gnome-edit directly
[14:13] <slytherin> pwuertz: Did you restart gnome-terminal after changing the preference?
[14:15] <pwuertz> slytherin: I did
[14:15] <pwuertz> ok... I see whats happening here... my fonts should be rendered using sub-pixel-hinting
[14:15] <slytherin> pwuertz: then something wrong with your system. By the way, can you post a screenshot somewhere of this weirdness
[14:16] <pwuertz> but for some reason, gnome-terminal is the only application using another hinting technique
[14:19] <pwuertz> slytherin: http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fonthintingpo7.png
[14:20] <pwuertz> ok... sorry.. should have checked bugs@ubuntu
[14:21] <IdleOne> need some serious help. with alpha5 I can only view google.com and no other sites. what could be causing this?
[14:23] <soc> hi
[14:23] <soc>  some time ago there was a blueprint about integarting/upgrading to grub2 ...
[14:23] <soc> i think it was for feisty ... did anything happen in the mean time or was it just a lack of time/problems/etc?
[14:23] <soc> there is a grub2 package in the repos ... but i don't know how integrated it is ...
[14:23] <soc> will it be recognized on kernel updates when writing the automagic kernel lists?
[14:24] <h3sp4wn> no
[14:24] <h3sp4wn> not automatically anyway
[14:25] <h3sp4wn> It uses grub.conf instead of menu.lst
[14:25] <h3sp4wn> and probably if it does have something to do that auto you would have to manually edit kernel-img.conf
[14:26] <soc> mhhh
[14:27] <soc> damn ...i wanted to try out grub-invaders :-(
[14:27] <soc> ^^
[14:28] <IdleOne> h3sp4wn any idea what could cause me not bieng able to view any sites besides google.com?
[14:28] <h3sp4wn> Try it out then just
[14:28] <h3sp4wn> don't complain if you break stuff
[14:28] <h3sp4wn> IdleOne: `Whatever that thing that the christian thing uses
[14:29] <h3sp4wn> Dunno how that would get installed though
[14:29] <IdleOne> h3sp4wn what???!
[14:29] <h3sp4wn> more likely to be an isp issue
[14:29] <h3sp4wn> Its some filtering thing
[14:29] <IdleOne> on the live cd?
[14:29] <h3sp4wn> Wouldn't be on there
[14:30] <h3sp4wn> (given you are using just the normal version)
[14:30] <h3sp4wn> anyway can you connect to freenode from the live cd
[14:30] <IdleOne> h3sp4wn yes reg ubuntu
[14:30] <IdleOne> h3sp4wn nope I cant
[14:30] <IdleOne> only google.com nothing else. cant apt-get update or anything
[14:31] <h3sp4wn> post some useful - traceroutes / pings / nmap's (dunno if nmap is on the cd)
[14:31] <h3sp4wn> maybe someone can help you
[14:31] <IdleOne> I have been Ubuntu-less for a month now
[14:31] <h3sp4wn> probably it won't be me as I am leaving in 2/3 mins
[14:32] <IdleOne> h3sp4wn if it is an isp issue then you know as well as I do I am SOL
[14:33] <h3sp4wn> IdleOne: Well it depends - I have worked for a few in the past
[14:35] <IdleOne> verizon will not help me with Linux issue
[14:35] <IdleOne> they hardly know about windows
[14:36] <h3sp4wn> That doesn't surprise me
[14:36] <h3sp4wn> I guess you don't have choice
[14:39] <slytherin> soc: grub2 works fine if yours is not adual boot machine.
[14:41] <slytherin> soc: By the way grub-invaders should work with grub also. grub2 is not necessary
[14:41] <soc> ah ok
[14:41] <soc> which problems can i expect with a dual boot system?
[14:41] <soc> does it just not work?
[14:42] <slytherin> soc: as of now the update script does not detect other operating systems.
[14:43] <slytherin> soc: When you install grub2 it will actually add an entry to existing menu.lst to chainload grub2. grub2 will overwrite grub only when you do grub-install AFAIK.
[14:43] <soc> ah ok
[14:44] <slytherin> soc: And if you install desktop-base package you get a nice shiny sky blue Debian wallpaper as background in grub2
[14:46] <soc> ah ok
[14:46] <soc> that might be the most interesting feature ...
[14:46] <soc> :-P
[14:48] <slytherin> soc: One more interesting is that grub2 can create rescue CD images (apart from floppy). Haven't actually tried using it.
[14:48] <soc> ah ok
[14:48] <soc> looks like grub2 can't read ntfs, does that mean it is unable to boot win at the moment?
[14:49] <slytherin> soc: Where does it say it can't read NTFS?
[14:50] <slytherin> soc: I can see an ntfs module in list of files
[14:50] <soc> http://grub.enbug.org/CurrentStatus -> supported filesystems
[14:52] <slytherin> soc: That page was last edited in 2006
[15:09] <Roooty> Hi, will the ipod classics be fully supported in Hardy Heron?
[15:12] <soc> slyah ok
[15:34] <Stonekeeper> hi all. Does anyone know the status of integrating openvz into Ubuntu 8.04? Was it ported in time for the feature freeze?
[15:44] <h3sp4wn> when did parallels buy virtosso ?
[15:55] <hit> terminal aliases won't save?
[16:01] <Roooty> Hi, will the ipod classics be fully supported in Hardy Heron?
[16:04] <Zambezi> Thanks for giving us two minutes too answeer. :-P
[16:04] <h3sp4wn> How could ipods be fully supported without a port of itunes
[16:04] <Zambezi> h3sp4wn: Amarok works fine.
[16:04] <h3sp4wn> the itunes store is part of the featureset
[16:05] <h3sp4wn> and dealing with breaking the encryption all the time is hassle
[16:05] <Zambezi> h3sp4wn: You meant so. Of course not, but I think he meant adding mp3 mostly.
[16:05] <h3sp4wn> Ah ok - I guess he could use rockbox
[16:06] <Zambezi> h3sp4wn: I'm not satisfied with the firmware in iPod so I'm going to give Linux ipod a chance.
[16:06] <h3sp4wn> I need to revive one (I got it for free) but the screen was smashed within 2 days
[16:06] <h3sp4wn> and I broke the clip that holds the screen in
[16:11] <Arwen> argh damn it, upgrades b0rk3d compiz. I really wished the repositories kept at least 1 version previous to allow for rollbacks...
[16:23] <nDuff> Is it a bug that firefox-3.0-dev doesn't include xpidl?
[16:23] <nDuff> ...hmm; actually, firefox-3.0-dev presently doesn't include anything but docs.
[16:25] <dandel> !bug 109659
[16:25] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 109659 in pulseaudio "jack sink missing in pulseaudio" [Low,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109659
[16:26] <dandel> i'll go ahead and put up a request to have the package pulseaudio-module-jack be included, so i can see about testing it.
[17:04] <glaucous> hi
[17:05] <wastrel> my laptop takes forever to boot
[17:05] <wastrel> :p
[17:05] <wastrel> hi hi
[17:05] <Arwen> nDuff, hehe, I round that one out the hard way
[17:06] <Arwen> now I still wish the repositories kept at least 1 version previous of everything... there's no way to reverse b0rk4ge
[17:07] <glaucous> could someone please point me to a page describing how to get intel wireless working in hardy?  sucks being connected by a lame wire again :)
[17:07] <wastrel> what card?
[17:07] <wastrel> what kernel are you running?  uname -r
[17:08] <glaucous> Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection (rev 02)
[17:08] <nemo> oh. that's the card my mom's ubuntu hardy uses
[17:08] <glaucous> 2.6.24-11-386
[17:08] <wastrel> yeah i had that probllem  - seesms to be a bug in the latest upgrade.
[17:08] <RyanPrior> There are some updates available today, but if I mark them for upgrade in Synaptic it asks whether I want to remove a ton of stuff, including Alacarte, Deluge, deskbar-applet, gnome-applets, a bunch of other Gnome packages, Serpentine, Miro, and others. Should I go through with that? Is it an error?
[17:08] <nemo> 05:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection (rev 02)
[17:09] <nemo> wastrel: there's a bug in latest update that affects wireless? I'll have to avoid it then
[17:09] <wastrel> install linux-image-2.6.24-11-generic linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24-11-generic
[17:09] <Milos_SD> RyanPrior, do Reload from Synaptic, and check again if that error will occure :)
[17:09] <Amaranth> RyanPrior: can you figure out what package is causing this?
[17:09] <wastrel> fix your /boot/grub/menu.lst to point to that kernel
[17:10] <wastrel> the linux-image-2.6.24-11-386 didn't seem to have ipw3945 drivers
[17:10] <RyanPrior> Amaranth: it seems to be the latest Compiz packages: Compiz, Compiz-core, Compiz-gnome, Compiz-plugins
[17:10] <wastrel> and i don't see why i got the -386 kernel anyway on my core2duo
[17:10] <glaucous> I thought we were changing from ipw3945 to iwlwifi
[17:11] <Amaranth> RyanPrior: nope, not doing that here
[17:11] <Amaranth> wastrel: you got jumpy and upgraded nvidia-glx-new before the generic kernels were uploaded
[17:11] <Amaranth> so it pulled in the 386 one
[17:11] <RyanPrior> Yikes. I guess I'll just wait awhile then.
[17:11] <wastrel> i didn't get jumpy
[17:12] <wastrel> the little thingy said there were updates so i updated :]
[17:12] <wastrel> actually i've been waiting a couple of days between upgrades but i guess i caught this one at a bad ttime... :]
[17:12] <RyanPrior> Sounds more like the packagers got jumpy. :-)
[17:13] <nemo> wastrel: ok. so updated to 2.6.24-11 would be a bad idea
[17:13] <nemo> I'll warn my mom not to run any updates
[17:13] <nemo> I've already asked her not to do it without running 'em by me anyway, after what happened last time
[17:13] <wastrel> i just installed the 2.6.24-11-generic packages and it worked
[17:14] <glaucous> why is your mom on an alpha os? (none of my business, just curious)
[17:14] <Assid> anyone here run an email server? and uses qmail+vpopmail
[17:14] <nemo> glaucous: serious audio bug in Gutsy. occurred halfway through Gutsy cycle, which is annoying
[17:14] <nemo> glaucous: her computer was unusable. apps crashing/freezing.
[17:14] <glaucous> sounds familiar :)
[17:15] <glaucous> I got here in edgy and gutsy is/was by far the most buggy so far.  Really looking forward to hardy but now I'm stuck without wifi
[17:15] <nemo> ... no wifi? what's your card?
[17:16] <glaucous> same as your mom's
[17:16] <glaucous> iwl3945ABG
[17:16] <RyanPrior> So when can we upgrade to Intrepid?
[17:16] <nemo> glaucous: this trend towards bugginess seems to span distros - I think it is due to acceleration of feature development without sufficient time to integrate
[17:16] <nemo> glaucous: oh. well. seems to work fine for her on -8  - maybe you should revert
[17:18] <glaucous_> did I get booted?
[17:18] <glaucous_> nemo, if you said something after my "revert?" I didn't see it
[17:19] <nemo> not sure what you mean by *your* revert. I did suggest you revert to version that seems to be working for her.
[17:19] <glaucous_> I guess my "revert?" question didn't come through then
[17:19] <glaucous_> sorry
[17:20] <glaucous_> I can't revert.  Just upgraded from gutsy today
[17:20] <glaucous_> poor timing it seems
[17:22] <glaucous_> brb
[17:28] <CarlFK>  /topic "Help test LTS upgrade: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTSUpgradesHowto " = Page moved.
[17:28] <CarlFK> someone should update the /topic
[17:30] <Amaranth> CarlFK: No thank you, the URL it redirects to is very long
[17:30] <Amaranth> and the redirect won't go anyway any time soon
[17:34] <CarlFK> good point
[18:13] <Assid> god these fonts look horrible
[18:14] <mooboo1> i had 8000 fps in glxgears before, like 2 days ago, but today i only have 5000 fps, why?
[18:15] <Assid> fonts in kopete - horrible
[18:17] <nemo> Assid: you running gnome?
[18:17] <Assid> yep
[18:17] <Assid> heck fonts in gnome look bad too
[18:17] <nemo> oh really?
[18:17] <Assid> stupid buggy software
[18:17] <nemo> Assid: oh. the default does suck
[18:18] <nemo> I switched my fonts to bitstream long ago
[18:18] <Assid> was working a few days ago
[18:18] <nemo> I wonder what the Qt default is
[18:18] <pwuertz> how to configure fonts in Qt4?
[18:19] <pwuertz> qtconfig does not support font settings...
[18:19] <Assid> have you noticed gdm to have bold fonts
[18:20] <nemo> Assid: no. but then. I haven't checked out gdm in a while
[18:20] <Assid> gnome/kde?
[18:20] <nemo> gnome
[18:20] <Assid> you havent noticed some fonts being darker since a few days
[18:20] <nemo> nope.
[18:21] <Assid> nvidia/ati/..?
[18:24] <CarlFK> bug 192310 seems to be fixed. ( do-release-upgrade -d just finished without the workaround)
[18:24] <ubotu> Launchpad bug 192310 in hyphen "package openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us None [modified: /var/lib/dpkg/info/openoffice.org-hyphenation-en-us.list] failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite `/usr/share/myspell/dicts/hyph_en_US.dic', which is also in package openoffice.org-hyphenation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/192310
[18:29] <nemo> Assid: nvidia
[18:30] <Assid> nemo: strange
[18:30] <Assid> mines been acting strange
[18:30] <Assid> and i mean STRANGE
[18:34] <Assid> my eyes hurt
[18:36] <mooboo1> so i have linux and ppl say its rock solid and great for multitasking, but my music skips sometimes
[18:36] <rsk> mooboo1: alpha5 ?
[18:36] <mooboo1> yes
[18:37] <Idleone> mooboo1, amount of ram?
[18:37] <mooboo1> 4gb, thats like<PHONE_NUMBER>000000000 bytes
[18:37] <Idleone> yeah that should be just about enough :)
[18:37] <mooboo1> and dual-core cpu, intel core 2 duo, 2.13 ghz
[18:37] <napsy_> how do I turn on clearlooks animation?
[18:39] <Idleone> is there anything in the alpha5 livecd that would cause me being unable to view any sites besides google.com?
[18:39] <nemo> Idleone: your DNS is screwed up and that was the only cached entry?
[18:39] <Idleone> nemo, possibly
[18:39] <Idleone> how do I check?
[18:40] <CarlFK> installed gutsy server, ran "do-release-upgrade -d", rebooted, apt-get update/upgrade, got error  http://dpaste.com/37757/ cp: cannot create regular file `/var/lib/apt/keyrings/ubuntu-archive-keyring.gpg': No such file or directory
[18:41] <CarlFK> what package should I report this agains?
[18:41] <Idleone> nemo, if dns was messed up would that not affect windows also?
[18:47] <smurfslover> good evening everyone
[18:47] <Idleone> hello smurfslover
[18:48] <smurfslover> i'm about to give up at hardy :(
[18:48] <Idleone> why?
[18:48] <smurfslover> can't get x to wrok properly
[18:48] <smurfslover> i'm stuck to a 800x600 res
[18:49] <smurfslover> i tried everything
[18:50] <smurfslover> i got good results with ripping of a xorg.conf from a gutsy live cd
[18:50] <smurfslover> but after installing nvidia driver my x is lost again
[18:50] <smurfslover> so i tried ripping of a xorg.conf from gutsy after installing the nvidia driver but that didn't do the trick
[18:52] <smurfslover> anyone who can help me
[18:55] <CarlFK> smurfslover: how did you install nvidia?
[18:55] <nemo> Idleone: well. your DNS is probably issued by a DHCP server, so. dunno. maybe, maybe not.
[18:56] <smurfslover> i don't even have a decent x without nvidia driver
[18:57] <smurfslover> seems like kubuntu hardy doesn't configure my gfx card
[18:59] <smurfslover> not even with the live cd
[19:04] <smurfslover> are the kde4 packages for gutsy the same as in hardy?
[19:06] <atomicpotato> yay, compiz works again
[19:06] <atomicpotato> smurfslover, they're old
[19:06] <smurfslover> how old?
[19:07] <atomicpotato> a couple versions
[19:07] <atomicpotato> 4.0.0 gold iirc
[19:07] <smurfslover> even pclinuxos has kde 4.0
[19:07] <mooboo1> my mp3s lag
[19:07] <frank23> smurfslover: I think there is a ppa for recent kde4 releases for gutsy
[19:08] <smurfslover> hardy has 4.0.1
[19:08] <smurfslover> ppa?
[19:08] <frank23> smurfslover: http://kubuntu.org/announcements/kde-4.0.1.php
[19:08] <smurfslover> thx
[19:09] <smurfslover> i want to help testing kde4 but pclinuxos development team is to small to deliver regular kde4 packages
[19:09] <smurfslover> and they are busy with an upcoming release
[19:10] <smurfslover> then i'll install gutsy instead of hardy and give it a 2nd shot with the next development release
[19:11] <smurfslover> yeah kubuntu even has koffice 2
[19:12] <smurfslover> i've beenon kubuntu from 5.10 till 6.10
[19:12] <oliver_g2> hello
[19:12] <smurfslover> all the following releases gave me troubles untill gutsy
[19:12] <smurfslover> hi oliver_g2
[19:12] <oliver_g2> will 2.6.24 be the kernel that will ship with Hardy?
[19:14] <smurfslover> probably
[19:15] <oliver_g2> probably?
[19:16] <oliver_g2> mainly I want to know whether 2.6.25 will be considered, as that would probably break my WLAN which uses ndiswrapper :-/
[19:16] <rsk> yea hehe.
[19:16] <rsk> you read kerneltrap i presume?
[19:16] <rsk> or lkml
[19:17] <oliver_g2> rsk: yes
[19:18] <smurfslover> even if they do it's always possible to install another kernel
[19:18] <rsk> hopefully broadcom etc can do what intel and amd does before that.
[19:19] <afflux> oliver_g2: 2.6.24 will be the only one shipped with hardy
[19:19] <oliver_g2> afflux: that sounds good :-D
[19:19] <Pici> Its way too late to switch to a different kernel
[19:19] <afflux> definetly
[19:20] <oliver_g2> pff... they added gvfs and murrine that late as well...
[19:20] <afflux> murrine came with the artwork deadline
[19:20] <smurfslover> this one doesn't do a nice job on configuring my fx5200
[19:20] <Pici> murrine isn't isnt as big of a change as a new kernel is
[19:20] <afflux> gvfs wasn't that late, way before featurefreeze
[19:21] <oliver_g2> well, it was late enough to make me wonder if a big change like a new kernel would be possible as well
[19:22] <afflux> is 2.6.25 going to be released soon?
[19:22] <smurfslover> bbl going to install kubuntu gutsy :)
[19:23] <oliver_g2> dunno
[20:00]  * cyphase is liking the new hardy theme
[20:01] <rsk> afflux: no
[20:01] <rsk> probably a month left or soo
[20:06] <zniavre> hello i got gnome-apps -install crash is it a known bug?
[20:10] <rubees> hi...i noticed that without gdm front end (i.e. starting up gnome using startx), none of the admin tools work..the unlock button always grayed out
[20:11] <rubees> is there a workaround for this?
[20:23] <Zambezi> What's apport-gtk? It's using 100% CPU.
[20:23] <Zambezi> Oh. It's report. Nevermind. :-)
[20:24] <Pici> Its what generates the bug reports.
[20:26] <Zambezi> Pici: I saw that when the gtk popped up. At first it didn't. It's FF again.
[20:26] <Tiyuk> Hello... updating my kernel from 2.6.24-10-generic (the latest available version of it as of yesterday) to 2.6.24-11-generic, results in brightness controls not responding on a ThinkPad X61t. Not only that, but its /proc/acpi interface doesn't do anything either.
[20:27] <Tiyuk> Indeed, rebooting into 2.6.24-10-generic fixes the problem.
[20:29] <Tiyuk> [   33.387320] thinkpad_acpi: standard ACPI backlight interface available, not loading native one...
[20:30] <ephracis> Is network manager 0.7 gonna be in hardy?
[21:02] <Zambezi> Okay. I tried to upload a bugreport, but the database crashed.
[21:29] <andatche> anyone know why the latest xorg in hardy seems to ignore screen dimensions and just sets the dpi to 96x96?
[21:29] <andatche> found a few debain bugs that seem related but nothing I can find will fix it :(
[21:32] <h3sp4wn> Because its stupid
[21:33] <h3sp4wn> what driver are you using ?
[21:33] <h3sp4wn> (I have got my radeon to work right)
[21:33] <h3sp4wn>  resolution:    106x105 dots per inch
[21:33] <andatche> I have tried with both intel and i810
[21:34] <andatche> with the intel driver I can fix the dpi using xrandr (obvisouly)
[21:34] <andatche> obviosuly*
[21:34] <h3sp4wn> I can with radeon but it doesn't fix it for already started apps properly
[21:35] <h3sp4wn> take a look at http://paste.debian.net/50440
[21:35] <h3sp4wn> perhaps you can do something similar with intel
[21:36] <andatche> that's what I've tried already :(
[21:36] <andatche> doesn't seem to work
[21:36] <h3sp4wn> I think the edid part is what made it work for me
[21:37] <h3sp4wn> I did spend a long time messing with it
[21:37] <h3sp4wn> even longer with xrandr 1.2
[21:38] <h3sp4wn> (everyone seems to think its gtk2 job to deal with this but I think its the wm
[21:38] <h3sp4wn> e17 does xrandr 1.2 perfectly sanely
[21:38] <andatche> the funny thing is there is a line in the xorg log saying: intel(0): DPI set to (95, 128)
[21:39] <andatche> yet xrandr still shows it as 96x96 and all the fonts look nasty
[21:39] <andatche> this is using fluxbox
[21:39] <andatche> it's an issue with xorg it would seem
[21:40] <h3sp4wn> It is indead
[21:41] <andatche> tis a pita
[21:41] <h3sp4wn> Well for me it was oh as well did you get rid of the hardcoded thing in /etc/X11/xinit/xserverrc
[21:41] <h3sp4wn> (if you are using startx / xinit)
[21:42] <h3sp4wn> Its hardcoded at 96 in there as well
[21:42] <andatche> I'm still using gdm
[21:43] <fdsjkalf> i use mint linux, is there a way to upgrade that to the hardy core
[22:08] <ysth1> for some time now, I've been getting "eth1: unknown hardware address type 801" (twice) when doing ifup wlan0_rename
[22:09] <lime4x4> did places/network break again after todays updates?
[22:19] <steph_> Can someone help me compile b43-fwcutter VERSION 011?
[22:19] <steph_> Or tell me where I can find it?
[22:26] <DanaG> ysth1: if you want to fix the "wlan0_rename" being named as such, look in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules
[22:27] <ysth1> DanaG: I don't really care what the name is
[22:27] <DanaG> That name thing is just a cosmetic issue, too.  I think it's the wmaster interface.
[22:27] <lime4x4> also now my network transfer speed is 40.3 kb per sec atleast before i was getting 1.5 megs per sec
[22:28] <ysth1> ah, there's an entry for eth1 but not wlan0_rename there
[22:28] <ysth1> eth1 used to be the wireless until some hardy update long ago when it became wlan0_rename
[22:29] <DanaG> Perhaps there's another wlan0 there already.
[22:29] <ysth1> just eth0 and eth1
[22:29] <DanaG> Odd.
[22:30] <mooboo1> does ubuntu monitor my S.M.A.R.T hard disk status?
[22:30] <ysth1> there's an "auto eth1" line in /etc/network/interfaces
[22:30] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: can do
[22:30] <h3sp4wn> mooboo1: smartmontools
[22:30] <mooboo1> h3sp4wn, it should do by default
[22:30]  * DanaG finds that checking SMART data can cause the drive to un-idle.
[22:30] <h3sp4wn> Don't see why
[22:30] <ysth1> everything works (except that error message being issued) so I'm reluctant to change anything
[22:30] <mooboo1> DanaG, oh
[22:31] <DanaG> Oh, and my hard drive doesn't ever spin down, even when spindown time is set to 5 seconds.
[22:31] <mooboo1> oh
[22:31] <mooboo1> 5 secs is crazy
[22:31] <DanaG> If I manually spin down the drive, it stays spun down for a while, actually.  Perhaps 30 seconds or so.
[22:31] <mooboo1> oh
[22:31] <mooboo1> crazy
[22:34] <h3sp4wn> I have one that has issues with some ata commands with power management
[22:34] <h3sp4wn> need to disable all of it somehow
[22:34] <h3sp4wn> (Only use it as an external drive now though)
[22:34] <DanaG> Oh, and even -B 254 OR -B 255 sometimes don't work.
[22:37] <DanaG> Oh hey, now my drive is actually spinning down.
[22:42] <h3sp4wn> DanaG: This does work in this case but not when its using a usb->ata
[22:42] <h3sp4wn> annoying thing is there is a firmware upgrade but I messed it up by using freedos instead of drdos
[22:42] <h3sp4wn> (lazy basically)
[22:45] <DanaG> USB can't pass SMART commands.
[22:52] <h3sp4wn> Is that a smart command
[23:21] <mooboo1> what package does 'ddcprobe' belong to?
[23:21] <mooboo1> and why does my 'ddcprobe' say that EDID fail?
[23:41] <h3sp4wn> guess
[23:41] <h3sp4wn> Do you know what an EDID is
[23:46] <mooboo1> yeah, its the thing in the monitor that communicates wtih the graphics card
[23:47] <mooboo1> to tell its what refresh rate its capable of doing and other stuff