[06:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: I guess you're on utopic ;)
[06:38] <MartijnVdS> popey: do you see https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gcr/+bug/1376571 ?
[06:40] <popey> yes
[06:40] <popey> i only see one prompt
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> I see one at a time
[06:44] <MartijnVdS> but I get several in a row
[07:53] <zmoylan-pi> .w6
[07:56] <Myrtti> is there a command in 12.04 that I can use to log out of the session and get to the lightdm login screen?
[07:56] <zmoylan-pi> is the lightdm not an option at default login screen?
[07:57] <Myrtti> not a keyboard shortcut - magic sysrq doesn't work on this laptop
[07:57] <Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: the problem is that I can move the cursor but I can't select anything
[07:57] <zmoylan-pi> i usually have 2-3 wm installed and they're on a drop down list
[07:57] <Myrtti> I'm in this Unity session and thought just logging out and back in would help, but I can't figure out how to do that
[07:58] <MartijnVdS> ctrl+alt+f1, kill the main session process, profit/
[07:59] <davmor2> Morning all
[07:59] <Myrtti> >___< can't click any links in my browser
[08:02] <Myrtti> ah, pressing control reveals that Unity thinks the cursor is somewhere it's not
[08:04] <Myrtti> chrissake
[08:10] <Myrtti> sudo service lightdm restart
[08:10] <Myrtti> there we go...
[08:11] <davmor2> Myrtti: what did you do
[08:12] <Myrtti> I've no idea.
[08:21] <foobarry> oh dear, stephen fry being silly again
[08:21] <zmoylan-pi> instructing the masses to worship steve jobs?
[08:22] <davmor2> Todays song is Emili Sande Read All About It part III for some reason
[08:22] <foobarry> claiming that his cocaine addiction affected nobody but himself
[08:22] <davmor2> where is slacker boy Tait with what day it is.
[08:24] <zmoylan-pi> him blowing his money, true.  but also financing criminals so does affect others
[08:25] <foobarry> big time
[08:25] <foobarry> anyway,
[08:25] <foobarry> does wake on lan get configged in teh bios or the settign is enabled via a driver?
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember that wake on lan was mentioned in bios
[08:26] <zmoylan-pi> never used it mind
[08:28] <popey> bios
[08:32] <zmoylan-pi> and it's about time. http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/oct/02/printers-refillable-tanks-revolution-home-printing
[08:33] <zmoylan-pi> of course it would be a few weeks after i bought a new printer :-)
[08:34] <Myrtti> we'll get our ink from PC world this time
[08:35] <Myrtti> did a search on Amazon for a laserjet toner and I decided that I'm not willing to bet my wedding information leaflets on cheap toner that might break the MFP we're really fond of
[08:35] <zmoylan-pi> well lasers are cheaper than inkjets anyway
[08:36] <Myrtti> tesco direct came to mind because we have vouchers we never use, but the price difference was about 30 pounds
[08:36] <zmoylan-pi> that's a whole rasp pi :-)
[08:36] <Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: it's not that far off in the lower end off the things, that printer was 150-200 and Samsung lists the replacement toner at 125
[08:37] <Myrtti> cheapest non-brand ones were about 12 pounds, but as I said, not taking the risk this time
[08:37] <zmoylan-pi> flip, my new brother was €80 and a toner is €40
[08:37] <foobarry> popey: looking in some threads it seems some drivers have additional settings to turn it on , on the pcie card
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> some of the inkjets i looked at had cartridges near the price of that toner and did far fewer pages
[08:38] <zmoylan-pi> if it's an add in ethernet then i suspect the wake on lan might have to be on the driver
[08:39] <Myrtti> zmoylan-pi: http://img1.digitalversus.com/produits/36/4947/36_4947_2.jpg ♥
[08:40] <Myrtti> (Samsung SCX-4500W)
[08:40] <zmoylan-pi> my -pony-little workhorse :-) http://support.brother.com/g/b/producttop.aspx?c=gb&lang=en&prod=hl2135w_us_eu_as
[08:41] <davmor2> Myrtti: I have the older laser jet clp300 I love it
[08:41] <Myrtti> yeah, we needed a scanner too, hence MFP
[08:42] <zmoylan-pi> i just use camera phone as scanner.  use a wooden bracket affixed to table with platform at fixed distance below
[08:43] <zmoylan-pi> since cameras got to 2mp they take a readable photo of a a4 page and the more mp after that the better it gets
[08:43] <davmor2> Myrtti: yeah the do that in their newer laser printers too now \o/
[08:44] <popey> Wifeys laptop broke yesterday
[08:44] <popey> hard disk corruption
[08:45] <zmoylan-pi> laptop not broke, merely wonky
[08:45] <popey> well "broke"
[08:45] <zmoylan-pi> can be dewonked :-p
[08:45] <popey> yes, but do i want to.
[08:45] <popey> or just get a new one and do this later
[08:45] <zmoylan-pi> windows?
[08:45] <popey> osx
[08:46] <zmoylan-pi> ah it's iffy.  macs tend to go corrupt as they age and some tiny hardware thing becomes an issue
[08:46] <zmoylan-pi> you have to know the correct technical terms :-)
[08:47] <popey> tempted to get her a chromebook
[08:47] <zmoylan-pi> they do look tempting
[08:47] <zmoylan-pi> cheap, near disposable, automatically backed up, low maintenance, does the basics
[08:48] <zmoylan-pi> apart from having to use chrome ::spit::
[08:48] <zmoylan-pi> but slap cruton on there...
[08:49] <popey> would use chromeos if it was a chromebook
[08:49] <popey> or get a pc laptop and put ubuntu on it (I'm not supporting windows)
[08:49] <popey> or spend loads and get a mac
[08:49] <zmoylan-pi> apart from paying windows tax which chromeos avoids
[08:49] <popey> meh
[08:50] <zmoylan-pi> macs do tend to last even if i do feel they are overpriced
[08:50] <dwatkins> Windows 10 - keeping up with the Jobs's
[08:50] <popey> yeah, her mbp has lasted a good few years
[08:50] <popey> it all went downhill when i upgraded osx
[08:50] <zmoylan-pi> because too many apps check to see if they
[08:50] <popey> should put back on it what it came with
[08:51] <zmoylan-pi> 're running on windows 9*
[08:51] <popey> and stick an ssd in it
[08:51] <dwatkins> I already need to upgrade my phone to iOS 8.0.1 for some apps.
[08:51] <Laney> still using my mid 2010 mbp (with replaced ssd)
[08:51] <dwatkins> Laney: same here on both counts
[08:51] <Laney> high five
[08:51] <zmoylan-pi> my main system is a 4 year old netbook from hp, 1gb of ram, xubuntu runs ok on it
[08:52] <dwatkins> o/
[08:52] <popey> i think partly the issue is that she drops it under the sofa
[08:52] <dwatkins> that reminds me, I booted up my netbook server yesterday
[08:52] <dwatkins> I hope the fan is ok now
[08:52] <Laney> ...netbook...server?
[08:52] <zmoylan-pi> then a lighter system might survive the abuse better ymmv
[08:53]  * dwatkins types "shotdown" by mistake
[08:53] <dwatkins> Laney: yeah, it's just been replaced by a Raspberry Pi ;)
[08:54] <popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-CT256MX100SSD1-256GB-Includes-Spacer/dp/B00KFAGCWK
[08:54] <popey> thats probably the quick fix
[08:54]  * zmoylan-pi loves my pi
[08:54] <popey> or buy myself a 512GB SSD and give her my 256GB one ㋛
[08:54] <Laney> it's a good fix
[08:54] <zmoylan-pi> win win popey :-)
[08:54] <Laney> would have had to bin it without the SSD upgrade
[08:55] <popey> yes, this is a plan!
[08:55] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:55] <dwatkins> yeah, I pushed the boat out and got a 1TB SSD
[08:55] <dwatkins> should be good for a while
[08:55] <Laney> !!!
[08:55] <Laney> need one of those
[08:55] <popey> yeah
[08:56] <zmoylan-pi> i just don't trust sdd... yet.  i'm paranoid about dataloss
[08:56] <popey> pffft
[08:56] <popey> backups
[08:56] <popey> i have had precisely zero SSDs fail
[08:56] <popey> and lots of rust fail
[08:56]  * zmoylan-pi waits for the gods of irony to smite popey ;-)
[08:57] <zmoylan-pi> i'va had hdds fail all the time but i often got warning and enough time to make one last backup
[08:58] <zmoylan-pi> up to and including keeping a hdd under my jumper for 3 hours to warm it up to loosen the spindle which had seized
[08:58] <dwatkins> I've had two disks fail in my NAS, should have got disks which were designed for 24/7 operation (or sorted out the options to power them down sooner)
[08:59] <dwatkins> nowadays my NAS does stuff only a couple times a day, so it's less of a problem.
[09:01]  * directhex radically alters new PC spec
[09:02] <popey> now, here's the rub. my laptop has 2xSSD, one is /, one is /home. The /home one is mini pcie.
[09:02] <popey> I am going to have to do some juggling here to copy /home to new SSD, move / to pcie card..
[09:02] <popey> and to complicate things they're both luks encrypted
[09:02] <popey> probably easier to reinstall
[09:03] <popey> or.... i just get her a nice big SSD for her mac and dont steal the big one for me, causing more work for myself.
[09:03] <popey> or.... just get her a 256GB one
[09:06] <dwatkins> If only there was a command which did that, kind of like a TApe Archiving tool...
[09:06] <dwatkins> oops, Tape ARchiving...
[09:09] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy World Farm Animals Day! :-D
[09:09] <popey> i didnt say there weren't tools to do it
[09:09] <popey> more that it's a balls ache and time consuming to do it
[09:10] <davmor2> popey: can't you just get a usb caddy and transfer over via that?
[09:10] <davmor2> JamesTait: you're late with your internet day, shame on you ;)
[09:11] <davmor2> JamesTait: You're just following up on yesterdays eat the vegetarians day aren't you ;)
[09:11] <JamesTait> I know, davmor2, I've been busy replying to the latest epic mailing list thread about mailing lists. :)
[09:12] <davmor2> JamesTait: did you say, we need a mailing list to discuss mailing list problems rather than filling the current mailing list
[09:13] <JamesTait> davmor2, actually, I replied to the offshoot from the mailing list thread, about document management.
[09:14] <JamesTait> I'm still formulating my reply to the mailing list thread - but I might include your suggestion. ;)
[09:18] <popey> davmor2: yes, thats not the issue, its time consuming faff
[09:29] <davmor2> popey: can't you use fog or ghost or clonezilla?
[09:29] <popey> sure, again, the tools are not the problem
[09:29] <popey> anyone here not in the uk or usa?
[09:29] <davmor2> popey: that shouldn't take as much time as dd for example
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> o/ ireland
[09:30] <popey> zmoylan-pi: if you go to http://eventbrite.com/ do you get redirected to a local site like a .ie variant?
[09:30] <zmoylan-pi> .ie it is
[09:30] <popey> it redirects?
[09:30] <zmoylan-pi> from the link you sent to .ie variant
[09:30] <popey> ok, ta
[09:31] <popey> .co.ie, or just eventbrite.ie?
[09:33] <dwatkins> I'm in Scotland ;)
[09:34] <popey> denied!
[09:34] <zmoylan-pi> eventbrite.ie  i don't think ireland was ever big enough to use a .co.ie
[09:35] <dwatkins> It's not how big your domain is, it's what you do with it...
[09:37] <awilkins> Yeah, Tuvalu has many more domains than it's size would otherwise suggest...
[09:37] <zmoylan-pi> made them rich enough to buy submarines for everyone in the country which will come in handy soon :-)
[09:42] <safiyyah> good morning everyone! I am trying to get ubuntu 14.04 installed. I have had to re-install 12.04 just to get the system running again so I could re-download 14.04. I burnt it onto a DVD (several in fact), and it refuses to mount. I also made a start up USB and it is also not booting#
[09:43] <SuperMatt> sounds like the iso you downloaded is corrupted
[09:43] <safiyyah> I do not know what to do now because I need a disk to install the thing, any ideas?
[09:43] <SuperMatt> but as you have 12.04 installed, you could just run update-manager -d
[09:43] <safiyyah> I have re-downloaded the iso about 5 times in total
[09:43] <safiyyah> and re-made the disks
[09:44] <popey> uh
[09:44] <popey> you dont need -d to go from 12.04 to 14.04
[09:44] <davmor2> SuperMatt: this is 12.04 to 14.04 the -d shouldn't be required
[09:44] <popey> !upgrade
[09:44] <SuperMatt> popey: I had no idea
[09:45] <safiyyah> I actually cannot get the DVD to mount at all once it is burnt. EVEN in the 12.04 system. I googled how to mount the drive and nothing is working
[09:45] <SuperMatt> oh wait
[09:45] <SuperMatt> I think I did know that
[09:45] <SuperMatt> maybe I'm just silly
[09:46] <popey> hehe
[09:47] <safiyyah> should I ask the software centre to get update and upgrade via there?
[09:47] <safiyyah> I always do a clean install because am scared of glitches but I really do not know what to do now
[09:47] <davmor2> safiyyah: no look at the link above
[09:48] <SuperMatt> so, who wants to play some cs:go or borderlands today?
[09:49] <davmor2> popey: that first link is incorrect I think
[09:49] <safiyyah> according to the link for upgrade notes I seem to be in the wrong distro and 12.04 to 14.04 seems like a huge jump?
[09:50] <davmor2> popey: doesn't lost 12.04-14.04 unless I'm looking at it incorrectly
[09:50] <davmor2> safiyyah: 12.04 is an lts, 14.04 is an lts they are designed to be upgraded to
[09:51] <safiyyah> davmor2, why then is the USB stick not being picked up?
[09:52] <safiyyah> I will be back. Will upgrade via the software centre first
[09:52] <davmor2> safiyyah: you don't upgrade via software-center
[09:52] <davmor2> safiyyah: you upgrade via software updater
[09:53] <safiyyah> davmor2,  yes sorry I mean software updater
[09:53] <safiyyah> be back, let's see how that goes
[10:36] <vad3rman1156> anyone read the new copyright law?
[10:37] <zmoylan-pi> what's ours is ours and what's yours is ours too? :-)
[10:38] <vad3rman1156> lol
[10:39] <zmoylan-pi> it's just that any copyright law now might be nullified by the super secret copyright thing they've been hatching for the past few years
[10:45] <arsenip> i take back everything i said yesterday, here i am installing ubuntu server in 'the enterprise' :D
[10:47] <Laney> starship?
[10:47] <Laney> I thought they were a CentOS shop
[10:51] <zmoylan-pi> i thought they'd run on dos
[10:57]  * brobostigon laughs quietly.
[10:58] <Azelphur> I think I beat uplink now >.< https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Oct/2014-10-02-115649_750x898_scrot.png
[10:59] <zmoylan-pi> when we started to make a pos system in 90s i wanted to use the russian dos that was used on satellites
[11:01] <awilkins> That would indeed, be a POS
[11:03] <zmoylan-pi> solid as a rock, you don't install ms on expensive satellites :-)
[11:04] <zmoylan-pi> in the end we used dr-dos instead
[11:10] <safiyyah> okay am back, i am re-downloading 14.04 hoefully it will be a success now
[11:13] <safiyyah> can someone tell me where my dvd drive is? http://paste.ubuntu.com/8478549/
[11:14] <safiyyah> davmor2, popey
[11:14] <safiyyah> is anyone here?
[11:14] <awilkins> Your drive is probably /dev/dvd
[11:14] <awilkins> Or /dev/cdrom
[11:15] <awilkins> Mount will only list file systems that are mounted, not drives
[11:15] <awilkins> So if there's no media with a valid, mounted, file system in the drive, it won't show up there
[11:16] <awilkins> On my system my DVD drive is /dev/sr0
[11:16] <awilkins> And /dev/cdrom is a link to that
[11:16] <safiyyah> am trying to see the data on the dvd thAat i burned on the iso
[11:17] <safiyyah> sine all 3 disks don't boot up
[11:17] <awilkins> Ok...
[11:17] <awilkins> Did you check the hash of the file
[11:18] <Azelphur> safiyyah: I'm sure I remember your nick from somewhere :)
[11:18] <awilkins> (Apologies if someone already asked this with you)
[11:19] <safiyyah> dev/sr0 hangs the terminal and it isnt the dev/cdrom
[11:19] <safiyyah> Azelphur, YES! long time no see, I used to come in here alot
[11:19] <Azelphur> :)
[11:19] <safiyyah> got busy working , so not in here much anymore, having upgrade issues :(
[11:20] <safiyyah> awilkins am sorry I do not know what 'the hash of the file' means
[11:21] <awilkins> safiyyah, OK, so I mean running the file though a cryptographic hash util to check it's integrity
[11:21] <diplo> Can you use the Optical drive for anything else ? IE is it even being detected by the OS ( don't want to read through everything )
[11:22] <diplo> Not sure if this is the correct way, but cat /proc/scsi/scsi displays mine
[11:22] <awilkins> safiyyah, On the download page at http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/ , there is a file called SHA1SUMS
[11:23] <awilkins> If you open a terminal, and run    `sha1sum <the iso file>`, you get a value that should match the corresponding line in SHA1SUMS
[11:23] <awilkins> If they don't match, your file is corrupted
[12:05] <safiyyah> awalkins the terminal just hangs
[12:05] <safiyyah> awilkins,
[12:06] <safiyyah> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8478774/
[12:06] <safiyyah> perhaps I entered it wrong
[12:08] <popey> whats with the arrows?
[12:09] <popey> sha1sum /home/Downloads/ubuntu-14.04.1-destop-i386.iso
[12:09] <popey> assuming thats the iso filename
[12:14] <awilkins> Yeah, when I wrote <the iso file> I mean replace the whole lot (including chevrons)
[12:14] <awilkins> And without the backticks too
[12:15] <awilkins> (seriously, one thing I want to see on stackoverload / askubuntu is a wiki markup for annotating command lines)
[12:15] <awilkins> So you can have pretty labels annotating bits of the command explaining what it does
[12:56] <safiyyah> popey. awilkins  - http://paste.ubuntu.com/8478989/
[12:56] <safiyyah> Is that what was supposed to happen?
[12:56] <safiyyah> Sorry I am also working at the same time
[12:56] <popey> looks good
[12:56] <safiyyah> so I am having interruptions
[12:57] <awilkins> safiyyah, Yes, if you check that against : http://releases.ubuntu.com/14.04/SHA1SUMS
[12:57] <awilkins> (Sure you want the i386 image? It's a 32-bit machine?)
[13:00] <safiyyah> awilkins, I installed 64 bit years ago and I found I had to configure everything
[13:00] <safiyyah> couldn't get skyoe working. Need skype for work!
[13:00] <awilkins> safiyyah, It's very much less configure-y now. Skype works fine for me... I did have to install a 32-bit version of Firefox and Java to get WebEx working fully though.
[13:01] <Myrtti> I've used 64-bit for yonks and it works just fine.
[13:01] <safiyyah> popey, There is a fact I forgot to mention, whenver am burning the disk. It finishes burning then never finishes creating the checksum
[13:01] <awilkins> But that's unrelated to your problems with getting your CDs to boot
[13:01] <awilkins> safiyyah, Have you tried USB?
[13:01] <safiyyah> That may be why I had botched disks?
[13:02] <safiyyah> awilkins, made the USB several times it is not being picked up on boot
[13:02] <safiyyah> I have already told the bios to boot up from 'other' first
[13:02] <awilkins> safiyyah, This is likely more to do with your BIOS settings
[13:02] <awilkins> Does your BIOS have a hotkey for "Choose boot device" ?
[13:02] <safiyyah> no I go in and tell it the boot order
[13:02] <awilkins> e.g. mine invites you to bang F12 to pick a boot device for one-time use
[13:03] <safiyyah> oh cool, will check if it has that
[13:03] <awilkins> What are your choices?
[13:03] <awilkins> Burning a disk or using the USB creator should just work
[13:03] <awilkins> THey both produce a bootable disk
[13:03] <safiyyah> my choices are the one of the HDD's, atapi CD drive and other
[13:04] <zmoylan-pi> and is it or has it ever been a windows 8 uefi device? :-)
[13:04] <awilkins> Hmm, yes
[13:04] <awilkins> If you have UEFI, do you have Secure Boot enabled?
[13:04]  * awilkins has not had to contend with this personally as yet
[13:05] <zmoylan-pi> lucky
[13:05] <directhex> totally looking forward to moving to UEFI on my new PC
[13:05] <awilkins> My motherboard has some kind of EFI but I'm just booting normally
[13:06] <directhex> everything about BIOS is terrible
[13:06] <awilkins> BIOS is terrible, but UEFI is worse
[13:06] <directhex> it really isn't
[13:06] <awilkins> But prettier
[13:06] <safiyyah> okay getting interrupted again
[13:06] <directhex> for most people, it's just different/new
[13:06] <safiyyah> am going to leave the download for the 64 bit running
[13:06] <directhex> safiyyah: do you know what the motherboard in the system is?
[13:06] <safiyyah> I have an Asus
[13:07] <directhex> roughly from when?
[13:07] <safiyyah> one of you guys told me to buy it last time my motherboard died... good call whoever that was
[13:07] <safiyyah> this one has lasted
[13:07] <awilkins> Hah, I usually sing ASUS praises
[13:08] <awilkins> I got an Abit once
[13:08] <awilkins> Never again!
[13:08] <safiyyah> it's an ASUS P5KPL-AM EPU motherboard
[13:08] <directhex> abit went bust a decade ago
[13:08] <awilkins> Presumably because they were rubbish
[13:09] <safiyyah> well one of you told me to use ASUS motherboards after my old gigabyte died and I think this will be my brand of choice for now
[13:09] <directhex> okay, that's BIOS not UEFI, so ignore UEFI comments
[13:10] <safiyyah> I don't know what UEFI is, only BIOS (sorry)
[13:10] <directhex> BIOS is how computers from the late 1970s boot. UEFI is how computers from the late 1990s boot.
[13:10] <directhex> almost all motherboards which mention windows 8 on the box are UEFI, windows 7 or lower are BIOS
[13:11] <safiyyah> well my board is about 3 years old
[13:11] <directhex> everyone's taken a while to catch up. you're on BIOS (70s-style)
[13:12] <safiyyah> okay
[13:12] <safiyyah> right please explain why the iso image burn, gets stuck on checksum?
[13:12] <safiyyah> image checksum
[13:12] <safiyyah> never finishes even if you leave it for hours
[13:12] <safiyyah> should I try another burner am using brasero
[13:12] <MartijnVdS> maybe your drive is busted?
[13:13] <safiyyah> I can accept that
[13:14] <safiyyah> okay we go with the bootable USB,hope it works!
[13:14] <safiyyah> back to work. be back in an hour to finish this off
[13:14] <MartijnVdS> good luck
[13:14] <directhex> awilkins: bootable USB is one example of why UEFI is better ;)
[13:15] <awilkins> I think my current MOBO has some sort of UEFI but I'm not sure it has SecureBoot
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> but bios had bootable usb 8-)
[13:15] <MartijnVdS> (I know I know, mega-hacky)
[13:16] <directhex> booting from USB requires the same as booting from a hard disk: 448 bytes of 16-bit machine code, at the correct point in the first 512 bytes of the disk blocks
[13:16] <directhex> on BIOS
[13:17] <directhex> all BIOS booting is done by having a fully functional 16-bit 8088 implementation inside whatever modern 64-bit CPU you have
[13:17] <safiyyah> http://www.amazon.co.uk/DVD-RW-Drive-DRW-24F1ST-BLK-AS/dp/B00BZF31UU/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1412255733&sr=1-3&keywords=cd+drive
[13:17] <safiyyah> is that a good one?
[13:18] <directhex> safiyyah: there's not much in it these days. only 2 or 3 companies actually manufacture them
[13:18] <safiyyah> lol
[13:18] <safiyyah> okay
[13:19] <Myrtti> you're not trying to do it to a RW disc, right?
[13:20] <awilkins> I don't really care anymore... used to think about buying Plextor drives and always settle for cheaper ones. But these days, I just don't care.
[13:20] <awilkins> I only use optical drives to rip CDs, install software.
[13:20] <awilkins> And very occasionally burn music for my daughter's dance classes.
[13:21] <directhex> USB booting for UEFI just involves the right file in the right place (/efi/boot/bootx64.efi) on a FAT formatted USB stick. so the imaging instructions are just "unzip"
[13:24] <safiyyah> Myrtti,  no a DWD +R
[13:24] <safiyyah> DVD +R
[13:26] <MartijnVdS> directhex: does UEFI support exFAT?
[13:31] <davmor2> MartijnVdS: isn't that what the magic UEFI Boot partition is written in?
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: no that's normal FAT
[13:32] <MartijnVdS> exFAT is what large SD cards come formatted as
[13:32] <davmor2> man why don't they just call it thin if it is ex-fat
[13:33] <awilkins> Short for extra-FAT (or extended FAT)
[13:33] <shauno> I think the magic partition is 'just' fat because everythign else is some variation of pain.  but the bootloader from there can support whatever it likes (which is fun)
[13:33] <awilkins> Should call it PORKY
[13:33] <MartijnVdS> LEAN
[13:36] <safiyyah> went with the samsung since they  will deliver it tomorrow http://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-24x-Retail-SATA-Writer/dp/B00CC6YN6M/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1412256743&sr=8-1&keywords=dvd+drive
[13:40] <safiyyah> guess I will have to wait until tomorrow to burn the disk
[13:40] <safiyyah> :(
[13:44] <dutchie> hrm
[13:44] <dutchie> am i being dumb, or is there no obvious way to invoke bash interactively with arguments
[13:45] <dutchie> i.e. the equivalent of "python - a b c", which launches an interactive shell with sys.argv set to ["-", "a", "b", "c"]
[13:54] <dutchie> aha, -s
[13:57] <dutchie> ...or not
[13:57] <dutchie> oh right
[13:57] <dutchie> bash -s a b c
[14:23] <directhex> MartijnVdS: exfat isn't part of the UEFI spec at all
[14:29] <davmor2> popey: can you make this the official oogcamp drinking song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzYof5GjhQ8
[14:29] <popey> I'm tempted not to click that in case it's an earworm
[14:30] <davmor2> popey: no it's a good one I promise, its the charlie mops beer song from the bard
[14:31] <popey> http://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/dont_believe_you_anchorman.gif
[15:42] <davmor2> popey: have you listened to it yet?
[15:42] <popey> nope ☻
[15:43] <popey> too busy listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqZcYPEszN8
[15:52] <davmor2> popey: like it :)
[17:25] <diddledan> how stupid is this marketing? http://www.geforce.co.uk/whats-new/articles/dynamic-super-resolution-instantly-improves-your-games-with-4k-quality-graphics
[17:27] <zmoylan-pi> if people are dumb enough to buy it and believe it...
[17:28] <daftykins> it does actually improve image quality
[17:28] <daftykins> but yeah claiming to make it 4K, lawl
[17:28] <zmoylan-pi> looks wonderful on my 14" screen :-)
[17:37] <shauno> just told the tv licence dude to go away :)  now I have the sinking feeling I should look into how much power they think they have here
[17:40] <daftykins> heh
[17:40] <daftykins> do you use a TV?
[17:41] <daftykins> or rather, do you watch broadcast TV? :)
[17:41] <shauno> yup.  and I have a licence for it.  I just object to being asked to produce it.  my 'filing system' is inefficient enough to make that an offensive waste of my time
[17:42] <shauno> if their computer can figure out how & when to send me reminders, it can also figure out how & when not to send people to my door
[17:42] <diddledan> don't they have some sort of databasey thing?
[17:42] <intrbiz> shauno: your under no obligation to let them into your property
[17:46] <mia__> does anyone know what I need to do to update my Ubuntu install to the latest I tried the information on the website but my version number is stuck on 13.10
[17:46] <mia__> I'm running it now
[17:46] <daftykins> run do-release-upgrade
[17:47] <mia__> apt-get?
[17:47] <daftykins> no
[17:47] <mia__> thanks
[17:47] <daftykins> "do-release-upgrade"
[17:47] <mia__> I forgot the release bit
[17:51] <mia__> Error during update
[17:51] <mia__> A problem occurred during the update. This is usually some sort of
[17:51] <mia__> network problem, please check your network connection and retry.
[17:51] <mia__> W:Failed to fetch
[17:51] <mia__> http://extras.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/source/Sources 404
[17:52] <mia__> this keeps on happeneing
[17:52] <mia__> I might not have the extra's repository in my software sources
[17:52] <mia__> does anyone know how to get it back
[17:52] <daftykins> you should paste output to us via http://paste.ubuntu.com
[17:53] <daftykins> never paste to IRC directly, it's annoying
[17:53] <mia__> I'm sorry
[17:53] <mia__> newbie
[17:53] <mia__> I'm not used to IRC
[17:53] <daftykins> ok that's referring to raring which is 13.04, you said you have 13.10?
[17:53] <mia__> yes
[17:53] <daftykins> run "cat /etc/issue" to confirm
[17:53] <daftykins> you can share the output of that here as it's only one line
[17:54] <mia__> Ubuntu 13.10 \n \l
[17:55] <daftykins> that's a pretty confused state. hrmm
[17:55] <daftykins> well even if you updated that repo to saucy, i think those are gone now
[17:55] <mia__> I think I accidently deleted the extras software source
[17:56] <daftykins> can you share your /etc/apt/sources.list via pastebin?
[17:56] <daftykins> also have a look what you have in /etc/apt/souces.list.d/
[17:56] <mia__> what am I looking for?
[17:57] <daftykins> anything pertaining to that extras PPA
[17:58] <diddledan> I don't think extras is a ppa
[17:58] <daftykins> well, just a sub type thing
[17:58] <daftykins> i knew what i meant :D
[17:59] <mia__> is there a command to paste to pastebin?
[18:00] <daftykins> well i'd usually say to install pastebinit, but i suspect you can no longer install packages
[18:02] <mia__> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8480692/
[18:04] <mia__> ok
[18:05] <mia__> thanks daftykins for helping out
[18:07] <daftykins> mia__: have you resolved it yourself, or?
[18:07] <mia__> no just pleased
[18:07] <daftykins> heh
[18:07] <daftykins> were you online the last couple of days? i thought i saw your nickname before
[18:08] <mia__> maybe I don't think it's registered
[18:08] <mia__> it might be someone else
[18:08] <daftykins> mia__: so you can see on line 44 is the problem referring to raring, i'd usually say make a backup but you can remember the simple change made here
[18:08] <mia__> I'm at a hackspace
[18:08] <mia__> learning the ropes
[18:08] <mia__> ok
[18:08] <mia__> I can do that
[18:08] <daftykins> oh some kind of event
[18:08] <mia__> no i'm a member
[18:09] <daftykins> mia__: i would replace 'raring' in line 44 with 'saucy' then save, and run "sudo apt-get update" again and check or errors (you could pastebin the output of that command too)
[18:09] <mia__> ok will do
[18:09] <daftykins> *for errors
[18:09] <daftykins> sorry my 'f' key is on the way out =|
[18:10]  * diddledan takes daftykins's f-key out on a date
[18:10] <daftykins> :D
[18:10] <zmoylan-pi> that can be really ecking annoying
[18:10] <daftykins> diddledan: you best bring it back before curfew!
[18:11] <daftykins> yeah, what's worse is it's my das keyboard mechanical with blue cherry MX switches
[18:11] <daftykins> £££ to replace :(
[18:11] <zmoylan-pi> aren't they supposed to last forever?
[18:11] <zmoylan-pi> warranty?
[18:11] <daftykins> it's years old, way out of warranty
[18:12] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rpfqi4xz9nxgx5j/AACAxEkpRRGQQnM2Lruz1Sira?dl=0
[18:12] <daftykins> took it apart for fun, kind of helped, more a placebo though
[18:12] <zmoylan-pi> not a lifetime warranty?  some of the silly expensive hardware is a bit more flexible
[18:12] <daftykins> i'd not have a problem  if it were :)
[18:13] <zmoylan-pi> did you injure a family member who wanted you to fix their windows vista laptop with the keyboard? :-)
[18:13] <zmoylan-pi> for that you need the ibm modem m :-D
[18:14] <zmoylan-pi> *model
[18:15] <daftykins> you wouldn't catch me with a keyboard without super.
[18:15] <daftykins> i couldn't survive
[18:15] <daftykins> mia__: how'd it go?
[18:17] <mia__> it's running now
[18:17] <daftykins> the apt-get update or the do-release-upgrade ?
[18:17] <mia__> apt-get update
[18:17] <mia__> GPG error: http://extras.ubuntu.com saucy Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 16126D3A3E5C1192
[18:18] <daftykins> hmm that's not particularly a problem
[18:18] <mia__> ok
[18:18] <mia__> is that because I deleted the software source
[18:19] <daftykins> not really
[18:19] <mia__> everything else is fine
[18:19] <daftykins> good stuff, try the do-release-upgrade again and see if it complains
[18:33] <mia__> it seems to be running
[18:34] <mia__> thanks daftykins
[18:34] <daftykins> no problem
[18:59] <diddledan> is "drupling" something undesirable?
[18:59] <diddledan> if so then I'm currently drupling :-p
[19:00] <diddledan> and answering a question in #wordpress :-/
[19:01] <daftykins> O_O
[19:02] <zmoylan-pi> as long as you insist on using ie6 to view the result :-p
[19:02] <diddledan> oh god
[19:02] <diddledan> I think my boss has finally let IE6 go
[19:03] <zmoylan-pi> yeah i was just wondering what the state of the lightening conductor was around abouts :-)
[22:58] <Azelphur> some girl just viewed my profile on okcupid, went to look at her profile, "I am looking for a man, who is willing to except me for who I am"...heheh, this goes on my list of most amusing spelling mistakes :P
[23:01] <ali1234> technically that's a grammar mistake
[23:01] <Azelphur> true
[23:02] <Azelphur> amusingly I will except her for who she is...I don't think that's what she had in mind though ;)
[23:02] <Azelphur> sometimes I get tempted to message some of these profiles with a list of mistakes in their profiles
[23:04] <shauno> I graded a bosses email for spelling once.  gave him a B-.  from that, I can tell you it doesn't quite work out the way it did in your head
[23:04] <Azelphur> hahaha
[23:09] <daftykins> shauno: did you keep your job? :)
[23:09] <shauno> sure :)
[23:10] <Azelphur> I told my former boss to "repeat that in English" a few times :P
[23:11] <diddledan__> just remember: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkje4FiH9Qc
[23:11] <diddledan__> that's not a very good video tho
[23:16] <Azelphur> hehe
[23:18] <daftykins> i wish this channel had a URL snarfing bot ;)
[23:18] <diddledan__> snarf!
[23:18] <diddledan__> you want it to tell you ahead-of-time where you're going?
[23:18] <daftykins> yip
[23:18] <diddledan__> gotcha
[23:19] <daftykins> prevents click regret :)
[23:20] <daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/NDXnJqe.jpg this amuses and horrifies at the same time
[23:20] <daftykins> no idea of context, but... it stands alone ok
[23:21] <diddledan__> err
[23:21] <Azelphur> daftykins: could easily be done as a ZNC module
[23:29] <daftykins> that'd cause duplicates
[23:35] <diddledan__> duplicates?
[23:36] <daftykins> i'm in channels where bots already grab the document title


[03:21] <micahg> len-1304: ok, will look at uploading tonight, you might need to poke someone in -release to get it out of -proposed though since we're in beta freeze
[03:34] <len-1304> Ok
[03:35] <len-1304> micahg, Thank you.
[04:20] <micahg> len-1304: hrm, MailReader seems wrong as Firefox is a web client, not a mail client (I'm guessing you don't seed one by default)
[04:21] <micahg> TerminalEmulator=Terminal should work as Xubuntu has that
[04:54] <len-1304> When I use Terminal I get a dialog asking me to choose a terminal.
[04:54] <len-1304> When I choose one It puts the text in the user file I put in.
[04:54] <len-1304> micahg, Yes we don't have a mail client.
[04:55] <micahg> ok, do you think studio needs a mail client?
[04:56] <len-1304> We have not had one as long as I can remember. Most people I know use a web client.
[04:57] <len-1304> A web client allows using it mobile
[04:58] <len-1304> We will not be adding one for R cycle for sure though.
[04:58] <len-1304> micahg, ^
[04:58] <micahg> ok, so mailto links work with Firefox set?
[04:59] <len-1304> Probably not, should I rather leave it unset then?
[04:59] <micahg> idk, maybe experiment?
[04:59] <len-1304> Mailto links don't work either way.
[05:00] <micahg> hrm, maybe leave it unset then?
[05:00] <len-1304> But there is a mailer item in our menu, right now it gives a dialog asking where the mailer client is.
[05:01] <micahg> right, but does setting to Firefox DTRT?  and what mailer item?, maybe that should be removed
[05:01] <len-1304> IDK where the menu item came from
[05:02] <Len-nb> OK, I'll unset it
[05:06] <Len-nb> micahg, Ok, mailreader is unset
[05:15] <Len-nb> micahg, the mailer menu item is part of exo-open
[05:17] <micahg> right...
[05:17] <Len-nb> I don't think I should remove that
[05:17] <micahg> I think the idea is to have a sane default if there's a mail reader
[05:19] <Len-nb> anything wrong with leaving it unset then? micahg?
[05:20] <micahg> technically, no, but you're just guaranteeing a popup when they click on the exo item
[05:20] <Len-nb> Ya better than having a new browser tab that is no help
[05:21] <micahg> it's your user experience, I'm just the upload monkey :)
[05:21] <Len-nb> A popup tells the user there is no client
[05:22] <micahg> if you're happy with that, it's fine :)
[05:22] <Len-nb> I'm not making a decision to include a mail client at this point though
[05:22] <Len-nb> ok lets get it done, file manger and terminal are important
[05:24] <micahg> FWIW, I think there's a way to make Firefox work with mailto for stuff like gmail and the like, but not sure if it's worth doing that at the moment
[05:24] <Len-nb> Not everyone uses any one mail service
[05:24] <micahg> right
[05:25] <Len-nb> The best I can get with mine is the login prompt
[05:35] <micahg> Len-nb: uploaded
[05:35] <len-1304> Ok, so I go to #ubuntu-release then? and ask what?
[05:36] <len-1304> micahg, ^
[05:36] <len-1304> I say it is in proposed then?
[05:38] <micahg> hrm, it might still just migrate
[05:38] <len-1304> I'm putting an pointer to the bug anyway.
[05:38] <micahg> len-1304: you'll have to ask for it to be accepted
[05:39] <micahg> archive is frozen
[05:40] <len-1304> micahg, I have asked
[05:48] <len-1304> micahg, having said I can't get mailto to work with squirrelmail... I just figured it out :) Helps me but not Studio.
[06:00] <micahg> :)
[12:49] <madeinkobaia> Hi all, the banner preview for Google+ is on the ubuntustudio-art/ubuntustudio-resources/art branch (drafts folder) : )
[12:50] <zequence> madeinkobaia: cool
[12:50] <madeinkobaia> : ) Hi zequence
[12:51] <zequence> hi
[12:52] <zequence> madeinkobaia: nice work!
[12:52] <madeinkobaia> Thanks a lot : )
[12:53] <zequence> I like the wave you added
[12:53] <zequence> We were thinking about something like that to emphezise what Studio is about
[12:53] <madeinkobaia> Great, yes it gives a graphical dynamic
[13:00] <zequence> madeinkobaia: I like all of the material. I wouldn't mind using this right now. Also, it seems like something that would work for our next LTS, but perhaps then it would be nice to modify it a little.
[13:01] <zequence> Just to give it fresh feeling once LTS comes around
[13:02] <zequence> I'd rather like to add this type of style to our website too
[13:03] <madeinkobaia> Ok, I was thinking you need something quickly for the social networks
[14:35] <zequence> len-1304: I'm doing some updating on our Team Structure. I'm appointing madeinkobaia as our art lead. smartboyhw will be our release manager
[14:35] <len-1304> Sure, works for me.
[14:36] <zequence> len-1304: I'll also want to add smartboyhw to our development team. I feel he's better in sync with how that works now, and he shouldn't be touching the source unless there's a reason (like when needing to fix a bug, and no one else is around)
[14:36] <len-1304> zequence, I don't know if you are keeping notes but it has been suggested we ship parted... not just on the ISO but to install as well
[14:36] <zequence> len-1304: We don't have any partition manager at all?
[14:37] <zequence> If no, I agree
[14:37] <len-1304> I don't see it in my menu.
[14:38] <zequence> len-1304: I kind of picture you as being responsible for desktop functionality, since you are doing most of the work on that
[14:38] <len-1304> I don't mind
[14:45] <len-1304> zequence, new version of our settings package today.
[14:46] <len-1304> zequence, as part of that update, we came across the question about a mail reader.
[14:47] <len-1304> I am not sure why we don't ship one. (I don't use one and so don't care personally)
[14:47] <len-1304> But I am guessing it is the same as why we don't have a word processor etc.
[14:48] <zequence> If we ship those, we should either use what Xubuntu uses, or use really light weight alternatives
[14:48] <zequence> Do they include Libre Office (that would be too much IMO)
[14:49] <len-1304> That is just it, they have abiword, but anyone who needs a word processor would install libre office anyway.
[14:50] <len-1304> So why provide anything?
[14:51] <len-1304> We already have an office sw installer, maybe just add mail clients that way too.
[14:51] <len-1304> A lot of people use some sort of web mail client anyway.
[14:53] <zequence> len-1304: sw isntaller sounds good
[14:53] <zequence> It's probably something publishing would want, btw
[14:54] <len-1304> Well there is one in office too., but some of those things could be duplicated in publishing... but really the default place for a word processor is in office.
[14:59] <zequence> Sure
[15:42] <zequence> ok, just became member of Debian Multimedia Team :)
[15:47] <len-1304> whats next? :)
[15:48] <zequence> len-1304: I'll start doing some packaging for them. Probably some puredata libraries. Should be simple enough.
[15:48] <len-1304> Good start
[15:48] <zequence> I think I want to see about what would be the best way to package jackd though
[15:48] <zequence> Considering the problems with realtimeprivilege, and groups
[15:49] <zequence> We might need to introduce a new group, and make it default on Debian, Ubuntu and other derivatives
[15:52] <zequence> realtime is one that is suggested. It makes sense for realtime but not much else
[15:52] <zequence> firewire devices need audio group atm
[15:52] <zequence> Maybe that could be changed to "multimedia"
[16:06] <len-1304> I am still not understanding what the problem with the audio group is.
[16:08] <len-1304> As long as the audio servers are in user space...
[16:09] <zequence> len-1304: According to Ubuntu, it's bad security policy to have the users in audio group, or something. It feels like it's been hijacked by pulseaudio
[16:09] <len-1304> any group will be a possible problem for remote logins
[16:09] <len-1304> Why? what is the security problem?
[16:10] <zequence> len-1304: Don't ask me
[16:10] <zequence> :)
[16:10] <len-1304> Maybe that is the case for the average desktop user where pulse is the only sound server.
[16:11] <len-1304> but where the user must be able to stop and start sound servers, even if RT was run under some other group, the user would need to be able to control pulse.
[16:12] <zequence> firewire devices point to audio group, but perhaps they should have their own group, a new one called firewire. and realtime privilege to realtime
[16:12] <len-1304> The jack-pa bridge should be RT so there would still be a group shared by pa and other audio stuff
[16:13] <len-1304> Should a strictly video FW device have audio or rt? Or just audio devices?
[16:14] <len-1304> Doing something blanket for FW devices seems wrong too.
[16:15] <zequence> Are you maybe mixing things up?
[16:15] <len-1304> Audio is inherently a low latency or RT process. so really the audio group makes sense
[16:15] <zequence> AFAIK, applications want realtime, and if the user has the privilege, the apps will get it
[16:15] <zequence> firewire devices can't be run, unless the user has the athority. Currently, the athority is given through audio group. It could be anything
[16:16] <len-1304> SO the same is true for a camera too?
[16:16] <zequence> I have no idea
[16:16] <zequence> I only know about the specific devices that ffado needs privilege for, and those are listed in the udev rules file
[16:17] <zequence> You can use firewire devices without rt privilege, but not without being in audio group as the udev rules file grants permission through that group
[16:18] <zequence> So, the audio group problem is not only limited to realtime
[16:19] <len-1304> Does PA use RT priv for it's normal operation.
[16:20] <len-1304> Lets say we have an RT group. Now in order for jack to have access to the device would it still need to be in the audio group?
[16:20] <len-1304> If not, why does PA need to be in the audio group?
[16:23] <zequence> Not using the audio group, I dont' think.
[16:24] <zequence> I have no idea
[16:24] <len-1304> audio:x:29:pulse,joe why is pulse in the audio group if it doesn't need it?
[16:25] <zequence> pulse is not in the audio group because of RT anyway
[16:25] <zequence> What makes you think it doesn't need the group
[16:25] <len-1304> No, because it is there if jack is installed or not
[16:26] <len-1304> I am just wondering why.
[16:26] <len-1304> My thought is that if pulse needs it then how can jackd run without it? (though not in RT)
[16:27] <zequence> To get rtprio and memlock, you just let /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf point to another group, and make the user member of it
[16:27] <len-1304> My thought is that jackd should have to be both a part of the audio group and a part of the RT group
[16:28] <len-1304> the audio group would give access to the device and the rt access to rt.
[16:29] <len-1304> So it would still be proper for FW devices/drivers to need audio group.
[16:32] <zequence> jackd is not a member of any group
[16:33] <zequence> pulse is member of audio group. The user doens't need to be a member of audio group as long as the other two configs point to other groups
[16:33] <zequence> such as, for example, realtime and firewire
[16:33] <zequence> pulse has no interest in firewire devices
[16:34] <zequence> and to my knowledge, has no need for rt prio either, through the user group, anywayu
[16:41] <len-1304> jack is a member of whatever the user is.
[16:41] <len-1304> But, the question is still why does pulse need the audio group?
[16:42] <zequence> pulse is a user, btw. jack is not.
[16:42] <len-1304> If the user can access alsa direct without being the the audio group then pulse should not need it either
[16:42] <zequence> While of course, pulse the app is not the user.
[16:43] <len-1304> So pulse is in the audio group just in case it runs system wide?
[16:44] <len-1304> but then if it needs audio group for that then the user should need audio group for a user space pulse server as well.
[16:46] <zequence> As it is now, pulse is a member of audio group, the user is not. And for some reason, the user should not. This has nothing to do with either jack of firewire configuration
[16:46] <zequence> So, to fix jack and firewire, one way to do it is add one or two new groups, that the user *is* a member of by default
[16:46] <len-1304> perhaps pulse does not need to be either.
[16:47] <zequence> A perfectly good question to ask Ubuntu or pulse devs, I guess
[16:52] <len-1304> This page: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/PerfectSetup gives some info.
[16:53] <len-1304> Look for the section "Should users be in the "audio" group?"
[16:53] <len-1304> We are "group" 2
[16:54] <len-1304> It says "ast user switching doesn't work properly if users are in the "audio" group."
[16:54] <len-1304> s/ast/fast
[16:56] <len-1304> Reading that, I would say the user running jackd(bus) should be in the audio group if they are running real time or not.
[16:57] <len-1304> The user running jack would not want another user to suddenly have access to the sound device anyway.
[17:00] <len-1304> The user with audio group overrides a user without. That sounds like a good feature in a pro audio system to me.
[17:02] <len-1304> zequence, having a user in the audio group breaks the expected operation that two sessions can be open and when one is made active the audio access dynamically follows.
[17:05] <len-1304> So if I have a session for user len open and am streaming audio to pulse from a web browser, and then select switch user and login joe as well, now the joe session is being controlled by the KB/mouse then joe has access to the audio IF. If I switch back to the len session audio should follow me there.
[17:05] <len-1304> I don't know if any of this makes sense. But using a user in the audio group seems to me to break something we want to avoid anyway.
[17:07] <len-1304> My opinion is that having the pro audio user in the audio group is correct even if there is another group for RT.
[17:12] <zequence> len-1304: All of that only affects pulseaudio, since whatever group you use with jack, that would be user specific
[17:12] <zequence> What you are saying is basically, jack users are out of luck, and need to administer groups manually
[17:15] <zequence> My goal is to make pro audio possible without additional configs on any Debian derived distro
[17:16] <zequence> That has been my goal all along.
[17:18] <zequence> or, to clarify, no group is ever used with jack. jack wants to use rtprio and memlock, and those are administered through a group of any choice
[17:27] <zequence> the audio group is in no way related to getting jack to work
[17:27] <zequence> other than currently, the package adds a file which points to audio group.
[18:42] <madeinkobaia> Be back tomorrow, see u all :)
[19:54] <em_> Im looking for insights on thermal problems
[19:54] <em_> hello???
[19:55] <em_> ping zequence
[19:56] <em_> !ping zequence
[19:58] <em_> everybody seems to be asleep...
[20:01] <zequence> em_: What kind of problems are you having?
[20:02] <zequence> 4 min is a short time to expect anyone to answer ;)
[20:02] <zequence> Might take hours, or sometimes days depending on who is available
[20:02] <em_> Hi, Wow, thanks...
[20:03] <em_> I seldom use irc, but when I have it's usually very active
[20:03] <zequence> em_: And, this is not really a support channel
[20:03] <zequence> We have #ubuntustudio for that
[20:03] <em_> I want to do some testing and file some bug reports
[20:03] <em_> but I want to make sure that I am doing it properly so that the effort is not wasted
[20:03] <zequence> Ok, that would belong on this channel :)
[20:04] <zequence> So, what kind of bug are you having?
[20:04] <em_> okay greta
[20:04] <em_> great
[20:04] <em_> two bugs, both are specific to the hardware
[20:04] <em_> one bug is overheating = 81C
[20:05] <em_> other bug is audio input -- totally flakey
[20:05] <em_> I would expect that these are know issues, but not sure how to search for them
[20:05] <zequence> What is overheating?
[20:07] <em_> PSensors reports cpu and video are both very hot.  video seems to run about 2 degress hotter so I suspect it may be source of problem
[20:08] <em_> its a radion (sp) video,  I have tried both the generic and propriatery drivers
[20:08] <em_> under load this laptop gets as high as 85 degress celsis yow!
[20:09] <zequence> I've seen overheating problems with AMD, but only with free drivers. Are you sure this is an OS problem? I recently blew out some dust from my laptop fan, and dramatically decreased the temp. I mean, really much, and I didn't see the dust with my eyes
[20:09] <zequence> That is, I've only seen problems with AMD graphic cards
[20:10] <em_> yes, defintely os problem...  the newer the os the hotter it runs
[20:11] <zequence> I would begin by filing a bug against the kernel, and then the AMD driver. Don't think there's a point in filing a bug towards the proprietary driver at launchpad
[20:11] <zequence> You could mention in the bug reports that there are two of them, and link to each other in the comments later
[20:11] <em_> on 10.10 average temp is 55C (generic),  on 12.04 average temp is 65C (low-latency),  on 12.10 avg temp is about 70C  on 13.04 avg temp is 80C  these are at idle
[20:12] <zequence> How about when you are doing something actively. Is the difference still as large?
[20:13] <zequence> em_: Just for the sake of minimizing possibilities, if this is a laptop, I would open up the back, and then blow through the fan hard a few times. If you see dust, it will make a difference
[20:13] <em_> in active use on 13.04 it peaks at about 86C   temps that high make me nervous.  case gets very hot to the touch
[20:13] <zequence> It's important to open the back, or the dust will fly around all over inside
[20:14] <zequence> em_: As for the audio input. Is this only on pulseaudio, or do you have problems with jack too?
[20:15] <em_> on 10.10  fan hardly even comes on.  on 12.04 fan runs quietly.  on 13.04 fan is screaming banshee.  this is all on the same laptop, all within 5 minutes of each other..  e.g.  I have all of these oses currently installed multi-boot
[20:16] <em_> I dont beleive it is a fan/dust problem.   actually I have opened the case and fan is inaccessible without major disassembly...  leary of going that far.  inside seems pretty clean anyway
[20:17] <zequence> Seems clean is not the same as clean. So, if it is a laptop, I would really encourage you to blow the fan clean, just for the sake of science
[20:18] <em_> I believe it affects both similarly.  again, it is very os specific.  but!  I installed same os version on different brand laptop and both of these problems do not exist.  these problems are specific to this particualr laptop.  HP dv7-4270us
[20:19] <em_> logic says that if 10.10 does not even turn on the fan, and 13.04 the fan is maxed out, and this is identical machine with identical amount of dust...  then the dust is not the primary factor
[20:21] <zequence> It is machine specific, absolutely. The cause for the diff in release is unkown. One could be a heavier use of system resources on newer release, which would case a higher temp
[20:22] <zequence> One could be a kernel bug
[20:22] <zequence> To exclude the first, blow out the fan
[20:22] <zequence> Once excluded, file a bug against the kernel
[20:22] <em_> ok, thanks, where do I go to file a kernal bug?  launchpad or elsewhere?
[20:23] <zequence> There's a command line tool for that
[20:23] <zequence> I'm not on Ubuntu right now, but I belive it's ubuntu-bug or ubuntubug
[20:23] <zequence> So: ubuntu-bug <yourkernel>
[20:23] <zequence> The kernel would either be linux-generic, or linux-lowlatency
[20:24] <zequence> I prefer you file it against linux-generic, if the symptom is the same on both
[20:24] <em_> oh,  okay, thanks...   thats very helpful
[20:24] <zequence> linux-lowlatency is principally the same as -generic
[20:24] <zequence> em_: About the audio input problem, do you only use pulseaudio with it?
[20:25] <zequence> It would be helpful to know if the problem is only with pulseaudio or not
[20:25] <zequence> If yes, then you would do: ubuntu-bug pulseaudio
[20:25] <zequence> I may be remembering the name of the tool wrong
[20:26] <zequence> No, it's "ubuntu-bug" allright
[20:26] <em_> I think the problem is the same with jack too, but I seldom use jack, I can retest it though and see
[20:27] <zequence> em_: If it's the same with jack, the problem is most likely with alsa
[20:27] <zequence> I dont' know what your problem is though
[20:27] <em_> ok, that makes sense
[20:27] <em_> I think its to do with this specific audio chip, it the intel HD audo
[20:28] <em_> alright, thank you very much.  I think that info will get me started
[20:29] <em_> any further thoughts?
[20:31] <zequence> em_: When you make a report, just look through carefully the alternatives you get whether a bug already has been reported. Also, doing a couple of web searches on your model, audio chip, Ubuntu release, kernel version, words like bug, overheating, etc, might show some results
[20:32] <zequence> Searching on the symptoms is of course a good idea
[20:32] <em_> for testing, does it matter which version of the beta I'm using...  I see they have dailies as well as the initial release.  should I download the daily for doing the testing or is the one I already downloaded good enough?
[20:32] <zequence> em_: Right now, the kind of testing we prefer is doing release upgrades from Quantal to Raring. Beta1 is preferred
[20:33] <zequence> But, if you just want to try it out, and happen to stumble on a bug, it would be great if you reported it, or let us know about it
[20:33] <zequence> in either case, beta1 is preferred
[20:34] <em_> well I've been trying the beta, and the audio works butter but still not usable, whereas the temp is much higher.  so I figured since it is current focus, that filing bugs against it would be more effective than filling against older versions.
[20:34] <zequence> sure
[20:35] <em_> thank you very much I think you have answered all my questions about how to file the bugs.
[20:36] <em_> any final thoughts or shall we call it a day?
[20:39] <zequence> em_: Not really. Don't be a stranger here if you want to continue contributing though. We'll try to help in any way we can
[20:40] <em_> great, THANKS,  happy whatever day it is for you :-)
[20:40] <zequence> Ah, yeah. It's Easter :). Easter witches day here in Sweden actually
[20:41] <em_> Sweden.... COOL!!!   I love the internet eveybody connected....   Im in Seattle
[20:42] <em_> well, it's been great chatting with you
[20:42] <em_> witches???  you have easter witches???  Ive never heard of such a thing
[20:44] <em_> over hear it's mostly a jesus thing...  except that many people realise it actually has nothing to do with him.   it's a celebration of the end of winter and the rebirth of life.  thats why it is celebrated with eggs.
[20:44] <em_> <<over here
[20:47] <zequence> em_: Churches have their Easter too, but we have a weird tradition with Easter witches, who fly on brooms
[20:47] <zequence> Kids like to dress up like 'em
[20:47] <em_> hmmm,  that sounds like our halloween which is in october
[20:47] <zequence> Easter is older than any know religions probably, yes
[20:48] <zequence> We have halloween too, but dressing up is a tradition we've imported from US, I think
[20:48] <zequence> Not that common with Easter witches anymore though
[20:49] <em_> yes, same with christmas which is really an ancient celebration of the solsctice  (sun's shortest day)
[20:49] <zequence> We still call it Jul, which in English is Jule
[20:49] <zequence> Or Yule, perhaps
[20:50] <zequence> And in Finland, the month of December is called Yule Month, as it was in other nordic countires too in the past
[20:50] <zequence> So, not as Christianized, as the church would have wanted it to be ;)
[20:50] <em_> yes, Yule is a frequently heard name for the christmas season.  I've never inquired about its origin
[20:50] <zequence> It's an old Germanic name
[20:50] <zequence> From Viking times probably
[20:51] <em_> hmmm  that is very interesting.
[20:51] <zequence> Midsummer is probablyu the least Christianized day. Especially here in Sweden
[20:52] <zequence> So, some traditions have survived
[20:52] <zequence> For better or worse
[20:53] <em_> the christian church has lost it's strangle hold on culture, but still has a very strong influence...  just not any longer dominant...
[20:53] <zequence> Ironically, I feel US has is more Christianized than other Lutheran dominant countries
[20:54] <zequence> Just hearing politicians talk about God is something that would never happen here
[20:54] <em_> they call it the "Age of Reason"  it's when people started thinking beyond the dogma.  It actually started in renasiance europe  as you probably already know.
[20:54] <em_> well, there are right now some trends that are very disturbing
[20:55] <em_> but basically a polotician cant get elected if they dont at least pay lip service to christian religion
[20:55] <zequence> That is very, very weird
[20:56] <zequence> If a politician talks about religion here, they won't get taken seriously
[20:56] <em_> refreshing
[20:57] <em_> I think the younger generations are pretty much breaking away from it
[20:57] <zequence> Actually, I think in US there was a big step back with Reagan
[20:58] <em_> but the brain is not such a logical thing...  people are more ruled by emotion and fear than by clear thought
[20:58] <zequence> I think he introduced a lot of the garbage that exists now, that politicians didn't need to worry about before him
[20:59] <zequence> So, in some ways, it's actually a modern thing
[20:59] <zequence> And it comes mostly out of the right wing
[20:59] <em_> kenedy was very controversial for being a catholic...  but my impression is that he kept religion very much out of polotics, so yes reagon was a throw back to "conservative values"
[21:00]  * micahg would comment in an -offtopic channel :)
[21:01] <em_> @micahg  are you saying we should take this somewhere else??   sorry if we abused the channel... nobody else was here...
[21:01] <em_> guess we got carried away
[21:02] <zequence> He's quite right. Some people like to read through history, etc. I need to grab some food anyway
[21:02] <micahg> well, not necessarily, just saying I won't add my 2 cents in a logged channel :)
[21:03] <micahg> (though, yes, I think it really belongs in OT, but zequence is a main contributor, so I won't tell him what to do in the -dev channel :))
[21:03] <zequence> We don't have a off topic channel ourselves, but there is #xubuntu-offtopic that may work
[21:03] <micahg> zequence: if you feel the need, you can ask for #ubuntustudio-offtopic to be created in #ubuntu-irc or something like that)
[21:04] <micahg> though what's OT is relative, -motu can get very OT sometimes
[21:04] <em_> okay, well it's been wonderful, chatting.
[21:05] <em_> I guess I will go file some bugs.


[08:59] <bkerensa> Happy Holidays
[17:37] <blkperl> bkerensa: going to organize an Ubuntu Trusty release party? I want a t-shirt :)
[19:06] <bkerensa> blkperl: I do not think organizing a Trusty release party is probable for me... It would be cool to see slangasek organize one and I can try and reach out to a few companies about a t-shirt sponsorship
[19:07] <bkerensa> 2014 I will be traveling a lot more then this year which seemed like more than half the year :/
[19:07] <slangasek> I'm not really the party organizing kind
[19:08] <bkerensa> slangasek: There is not much too it ;) offer cheese and beer and people will come
[19:09] <bkerensa> There is a high certainty that PuppetLabs would offer space
[19:09] <bkerensa> and if thats not the case I could probably get the Mozspace open for it ;)
[19:09] <slangasek> yes, except any mental energy I might have for organizing parties is already spoken for over the next year due to DebConf


[19:43] <daftykins> helpmemount: no, you're just making up packages
[19:44] <helpmemount> I will reread
[19:44] <daftykins> wesleyotugo: 'patchy and scrabby' are not technical terms for me to understand what you're talking about.
[19:44] <mcphail> charlie__2: does https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD help?
[19:44] <charlie__2> daftykins: I have a spare SATA dvd reader that could come in handy with an USB adapter. I'll try that way. Otherwise is plop really the only solution? No distro fit on a CD anymore?
[19:44] <daftykins> wesleyotugo: i really don't think Linux is right for this system, perhaps give us the full make and model or a link to it.
[19:45] <charlie__2> mcphail: I guess it's what I'm after! Is there a MinimalCD for Lubuntu?
[19:45] <daftykins> charlie__2: or you can install from the mini.iso if this system has working wired networking out of the box
[19:45] <Ben64> note - minimal cd isn't a live cd
[19:45] <helpmemount> Not trying to be difficult @Ben64, but what part? It has the guest option that I mentioned, you told me it was wrong  a minute ago
[19:45] <mcphail> charlie__2: not sure. You might be able to select lubuntu-desktop from that installer. I have never used it
[19:45] <Ben64> helpmemount: the part where it tells you what to install to make it work
[19:45] <helpmemount> oh for the cifs install
[19:45] <helpmemount> Sorry
[19:46] <charlie__2> is the mini.iso an official installation method?
[19:46] <Ben64> yep
[19:46] <charlie__2> nice, I'm looking for it
[19:47] <charlie__2> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/MinimalInstall this must be the page :)
[19:47] <helpmemount> So after install cifs tools, that's working exactly as I had it. Thank you for your help Ben64
[19:48] <Ben64> helpmemount: cool
[19:49] <charlie__2> Lubuntu Alternate fits on a CD, but I'm curious about that mini.iso :)
[19:49] <wesleyotugo> daftkins: http://imgur.com/qrGNanc That a screenshot of my problem
[19:49] <charlie__2> thanks guys
[19:52] <mcphail> charlie__2: if you're likely to be doing a few installs, the alternate CD would be better than the mini iso, as you wouldn't have to keep pulling all the files from the server. But for a single install, the mini iso would be fine, I'm sure
[19:52] <daftykins> wesleyotugo: in my opinion that computer is a bad fit for the software you want to use.
[19:53] <ahmet_> hey
[19:53] <daftykins> wesleyotugo: as i said, and please pay attention this time - either run a supported release and we can investigate further... or replace the card. i will not reply again.
[19:53] <charlie__2> mcphail: thank you very much :) I'm going to do only one install and the full alternate iso will do. I hope it will support this VERY old hardware
[19:53] <reisio> ahmet_: heyo
[19:54] <ahmet_> do you speak Turksh
[19:54] <daftykins> mcphail: alternate hasn't existed for a long time
[19:55] <Jordan_U> wesleyotugo: Please pastebin the output of "dmesg" and the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log after seeing such corrupted images.
[19:55] <hep7> hello
[19:55] <daftykins> Jordan_U: not much point since the wrong releases for such hardware are being used :)
[19:56] <charlie__2> is this the right place to ask about Lubuntu?
[19:56] <daftykins> i mean, knock yourself out... but i think it's giving false hope and wasting time
[19:56] <Jordan_U> daftykins: I thought that screenshot was from a supported release.
[19:56] <daftykins> supported, but not appropriate for old hardware
[19:56] <hep7> my ubuntu mate doesn't boot properly i believe this happened after update?
[19:57] <hep7> dual boot with win10
[19:57] <Jordan_U> charlie__2: Here and #lubuntu are both fine. #lubuntu might have more people familiar with LXDE.
[19:57] <charlie__2> Jordan_U: thanks :) I'm wondering whether old serial ports are supported by current Lubuntu
[19:58] <ahmet_> hep7_ how
[19:58] <hep7> it eather boots to terminal or doesn't boot at all sometimes, (have to reboot few times)
[19:58] <hep7> either*
[19:58] <mcphail> daftykins: there's alternate cd's listed for lubuntu at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Alternate_ISO
[19:59] <ahmet_> ı win 7 with ubuntu making
[19:59] <hep7> ?
[19:59] <Jordan_U> charlie__2: I would expect serial ports to work. What are you planning to use them for/with?
[19:59] <ahmet_> English dont good
[19:59] <charlie__2> Jordan_U to revive an old but still working printer
[19:59] <daftykins> mcphail: ah community only and lubuntu only, news to me - very niche though.
[20:00] <mcphail> daftykins: yes - I thought alternate had died as well
[20:00] <hep7> ahmet_ it is ok, you don't have to answer, thanks.
[20:00] <charlie__2> Jordan_U: it's paired with this OLD computer
[20:00] <Jordan_U> charlie__2: It's worth a try. You can test it from a LiveCD/USB before installing if you want.
[20:01] <charlie__2> I'm not even sure how they're going to find cartridges
[20:01] <charlie__2> Jordan_U: that's my roadmap :P
[20:01] <daftykins> mcphail: i think it still has, maybe that's just some old community attempts
[20:02] <ahmet_> hep7_:ı can tell you
[20:07] <Jordan_U> wesleyotugo: Assuming that screenshot was from a supported release of Ubuntu, preferably Ubuntu 14.04 or 15.10, Please pastebin the output of "dmesg" and the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log after seeing such corrupted images.
[20:08] <Luke> hi
[20:08] <Guest77091> hello?
[20:09] <SumTingWong> is this working?
[20:09] <reisio> sure
[20:09] <reisio> hi
[20:09] <reisio> hi
[20:09] <Guest77091> hello SumTingWong!
[20:09] <SumTingWong> Hello :)
[20:10] <SumTingWong> Anybody know how to host your own IRC server?
[20:10] <SumTingWong> I could ofc google it...
[20:10]  * reisio headdesks
[20:10] <SumTingWong> wut? O.o
[20:11] <daftykins> research before coming here for non-OS support questions, tends to be good
[20:11] <SumTingWong> So I cant be here if im using openbox?
[20:12] <daftykins> openbox is a DE/WM last i checked
[20:12] <reisio> SumTingWong: is that question related to the preceding?
[20:13] <SumTingWong> nope
[20:16] <reisio> not quite appropriate use of 'So ', then? :p
[20:17] <meurth> Hello, my keyboard has a third, Fn option for some keys, and I want to assign pi as one of these, but where are these in the keymap for English (US):  /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/us
[20:18] <wesleyotugo> daftykins: thats was a recent linux mint new install after i had tried all ubuntu variation. i have ran a supported release of lubuntu 14.04, 15.04,15.10 and the problem persist. what should i do , this same program works fine in windows ?
[20:18] <reisio> meurth: these what?
[20:18] <daftykins> wesleyotugo: so now you tell us Mint - we don't support Mint here.
[20:18] <daftykins> !mint
[20:18] <meurth> reisio, as a third option for a key accessed by holding the Fn key.
[20:19] <daftykins> wesleyotugo: i've already said to install lubuntu 14.04 and come back so i will not be able to assist you until this is done.
[20:19] <reisio> meurth: that might be hardcoded in your hardware's circuitry
[20:19] <Jordan_U> wesleyotugo: I'm still waiting for information I've requested twice now. Are you having trouble getting it?
[20:19] <reisio> meurth: if 'xev' doesn't recognize it, for example, you will probably have to act on what Fn+other_key says, instead of Fn directly
[20:20] <Ricardus> I just had something happen that I dont think ever happened before
[20:20] <Ricardus> I currently have my laptop set to require your password to login after it comes out of screensaver mode
[20:21] <daftykins> ok...?
[20:21] <Ricardus> I must have intended to log in earlier, before I left the house, and typed in the password
[20:21] <Ricardus> and when I got back a few hours later the password was still there, and hitting enter allowed me in
[20:22] <meurth> reisio, reisio,I think you're right.  All the Fn outputs are redundant.
[20:22] <Jordan_U> Ricardus: Please type out your whole question in one line and post it when you're done.
[20:22] <Ricardus> Why not set it up so if youve typed your password, and you dont log in, that the next time it comes out of screensaver mode, the password is cleared?
[20:23] <daftykins> i'm pretty sure there's a timeout where it blanks again
[20:23] <daftykins> Ricardus: if you walked away from your computer having typed in the password but not hit enter, i think you're asking for surprises
[20:23] <Ricardus> daftykins, it didnt for me.
[20:23] <reisio> that's an okay suggestion, but
[20:23] <reisio> it's quite impossible to prevent silly users from making their own lives hard
[20:24] <reisio> and the more complicated you make xscreensaver, the greater the chance it can be exploited
[20:24] <daftykins> Ricardus: maybe don't type your password in and walk away then :)
[20:24] <Ricardus> daftykins, maybe, but why WOULDNT the password be cleared the next time it came out of screensaver mode. Just seems like an obvious and easy security fix
[20:24] <reisio> s/xscreensaver/locker of your choice here/
[20:24] <wesleyotugo> jaordan_U: Pardon me, it was not intentional. Here is the output of dmesg http://pastebin.com/5JD72gNz
[20:24] <daftykins> i agree it's not ideal, but i also think it's an irresponsible action
[20:24] <reisio> second guessing the end user is really annoying
[20:24] <wesleyotugo>  jordan_U: Pardon me, it was not intentional. Here is the output of dmesg http://pastebin.com/5JD72gNz
[20:24] <daftykins> Ricardus: i came home and i put my keys in the door, then i walked away to the coffee shop - how dare my house not push the keys out and into my pocket?!
[20:25] <reisio> as a pref it'd be fine, but it'd necessarily complicate the software
[20:25] <daftykins> same stuff to my mind :)
[20:25] <Ricardus> daftykins, this is the first time ive ever done it. But I cant be the first and only person to ever do it.
[20:25] <Ricardus> Do you guys read Schneier on security? I mean seriously. He would describe that as BRITTLE
[20:26] <zh1> wanna install flash on ubuntu gnome, what command does it on terminal?
[20:26] <daftykins> i can't type here how i'd describe that
[20:26] <Ricardus> People are going to be people. We're human. We occasionally make mistakes. This is an easy (and as I said before) obvious flaw that should be corrected.
[20:26] <Ricardus> Ive been running Ubuntu for years, and this is the first time I've ever commented in here.
[20:27] <daftykins> you might want to pursue finding/creating a bug if you care about this one
[20:27] <Jordan_U> Ricardus: The code is available if you want to provide a patch implementing this or you could pay someone else to write said patch. You can also file a bug report/feature request but I don't expect that anyone else will want to add that feature in their spare time (I may be wrong though).
[20:27] <daftykins> but you have to accept the edge case nature of what you've presented
[20:27] <Ricardus> And if I knew a good suggestion was going to met with silly wisecracks I wouldnt have bothered.
[20:28] <Ricardus> I dont think anyone in the security business would call this an "edge case"
[20:28] <Ricardus> its a flaw
[20:28] <Kang0> Hi all
[20:28] <Ricardus> anyway. Good day to you all
[20:28] <Jordan_U> Ricardus: Then file a bug report please.
[20:28] <daftykins> i would like to point out that you pursue the correct bug processes rather than complaining about it with no productivity, Ricardus
[20:28] <Kang0> Need help to configure ssh server and client on same phone
[20:29] <daftykins> Kang0: what kind of phone? this channel is for ubuntu support
[20:29] <Kang0> android
[20:29] <daftykins> Kang0: so unless you're connecting to an ubuntu host, this channel isn't relevant to that
[20:30] <Kang0> Ok
[20:30] <Kang0> I thought people may use android phone on thus channel
[20:32] <Jordan_U> wesleyotugo: What version of Ubuntu is that from? (If not 14.04 or 15.10 then I don't care to see it). That's also not the complete output. I'm also still waiting for the Xorg.0.log I requested (again though, if not from X/Lubuntu 14.04/15.10 I don't care).
[20:33] <Jordan_U> Kang0: This is #ubuntu, not #android. We only support Ubuntu here.
[21:02] <menace> is there for standard ubuntu 16.04 a beta for download? i only see the offsprings like xubuntu or lubuntu
[21:02] <jushur> menace: look under daily-builds
[21:05] <creep> hi peps, where is the difference between ubuntu and ubuntu mate? because I could install ubuntu and after that i could install the mate surface? so where is the effort of ubuntu mate ?
[21:08] <jushur> creep: the difference is the ubuntu default has unity, and ubuntu mate has mate as a default. and the major difference is the mate edition does not have unity installed by default?
[21:10] <zh1> creep, MATE (software), a fork of GNOME 2 Desktop Environment (computer software)
[21:14] <Kang0> I m on terminal now does it fall under ubuntu discussion
[21:14] <reisio> did it not before?
[21:14] <Gallomimia> !ot| Kang0
[21:18] <Revian1> Kang0: You're asking for help to configure ssh server and client on an Android phone. Regardless of the app you use, your request is off-topic.
[21:23] <Kang0> That request is closed Revian1
[21:24] <Kang0> Now after connection is established i would like some suggestion for commands on terminal as i m noob
[21:25] <flexoboto> Kang0: ls for example
[21:25] <flexoboto> id
[21:26] <mcphail> Kang0: "ls" is a good one. "cp" is excellent. Or perhaps you have a specific Ubuntu support question? You can look at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UsingTheTerminal for inspiration
[21:26] <Kang0> Thanks mcphail flexoboto i want to copy and paste files
[21:27] <Revian1> Kang0: Running a terminal on an Android phone does not bring your issue into the realm of Ubuntu support.
[21:27] <k1l> !shell | Kang0
[21:29] <Nino_> Some gif creator for ubuntu 12.04?please
[21:29] <Revian1> k1l: I believe the !shell trigger for ubottu needs to be update for the Unity environment when someone has a chance.
[21:30] <Kang0> Thanks for clarifying Revian1
[21:30] <flexoboto> !shell
[21:30] <flexoboto> nice :D
[21:31] <SchrodingersScat> !info ffmpeg | Nino_
[21:32] <flexoboto> Kang0: why you want to use a shell for copy your files on your smartphone ?!?!
[21:33] <Kang0> Just learning flexoboto
[21:45] <VictorCL> B00M
[21:53] <jamie2> or well better said, how do i revert from make 4.0 to make 3.82
[21:54] <squinty_> well isn't this special?
[21:54] <jamie2> getting flooded
[21:54] <dax> !netsplit
[21:54] <bryan2_> Hey guys, I just installed the 16.04 daily. It went well, however I can't seem to boot into my windows installation(on another HD) anymore. It doesn't show up in the grub list like it used to. Here is my boot info: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15221497/
[21:54] <jamie2> I cant seem to find it on duckduckgo...
[21:54] <bekks> jamie2: So use a real search engine :)
[21:54] <jamie2> bekks: duckduckgo is a real search engine, i also checked google who cant find it either
[22:03] <jamie2> i have googled it 20 different ways and still cant find how to revert from make 4.0 to make 3.82 or 3.81
[22:09] <faissal> test
[22:10] <Bray90820_> test
[22:12] <geirha> jamie2: what does this output?  apt-cache policy make
[22:13] <jamie2> geirha: https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8861556
[22:13] <JackDawson> hi all!
[22:13] <Bray90820__> test
[22:14] <geirha> !ubuntu+1 | bryan2_
[22:14] <JackDawson> Does anyone can help with a DNS problem?
[22:14] <Bray90820__> Is my test going through
[22:14] <jamie2> Bray90820__: yes
[22:14] <loveheartjoylove> I probably can
[22:14] <loveheartjoylove> what's the problem?
[22:15] <Bray90820__> That's odd because I can't send to any other chnnel
[22:15] <jamie2> Bray90820__: i was having issues earlier even connecting to freenode
[22:15] <Revian1> Freenode is experiencing issues atm
[22:15] <Bray90820__> jamie2: I can't identify with the servers
[22:15] <geirha> jamie2: Ok, so that's the version in wily. There's no supported way of downgrading a package
[22:16] <Jklk32> Hi everyone! Does anyone can help me with a DNS problem?
[22:17] <scaldwel_> Sorry about that Bekks,  I meant TOR not TORRENT.  Damned autocorrect!!!!!
[22:19] <jamie2> geirha: so you are saying i cant build android on willy at all?
[22:21] <stacks88> so in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades  i set Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot "true"; and Unattended-Upgrade::Automatic-Reboot-Time "06:00"; -- but now while logged in i keep seeing stuff like The system is going down for reboot in 1260 minutes! and The system is going down for reboot in 1200 minutes!  its like every hour, The system is going down for reboot in 900 minutes! ..
[22:21] <stacks88> how can i disable these broadcast messages ?
[22:22] <deadmund> Is there anyway that I can get a log / error messages from when I log into KDE?  My system hangs for like 15 - 20 seconds when I log in after the KDE progress bar is full.  it didn't used to do this before I upgraded
[22:41] <jamie2> geirha: are those the proper ones for linux and for ubuntu?
[22:43] <Gallomimia> deadmund: the answer is yes but the bot isn't happy either
[22:43] <jamie2> geirha: found it http://packages.ubuntu.com/trusty/amd64/make/download
[22:45] <thezugswang> hi folks, just installed fresh version of ubuntu 15.10 (previously on mint 17.1) and I'm getting a black screen on boot (not even reaching disk encryption password). I can log in via recovery mode, and I've tried 2 different nvidia drivers, but same result both times
[22:47] <Jordan_U_> thezugswang: Do you have this problem when using nouveau?
[22:48] <thezugswang> Jordan_U_, It was originally on that, but I was getting weird font issues (like missing characters)
[22:48] <geirha> jamie2: Those are the vanilla sources of GNU make
[22:48] <thezugswang> Jordan_U, I will try it again now...
[22:48] <Jordan_U> thezugswang: Missing characters within X or at a text tty?
[22:49] <jamie2> geirha: i used that link i threw up and did dpkg --force-all -i '/home/jamie/Downloads/make_3.81-8.2ubuntu3_amd64.deb'
[22:51] <thezugswang> Jordan_U, I can log in fine using Neuveau, but the fonts are messed up. I think that I need the propietray drivers anyway, since I play games on this PC
[22:51] <thezugswang> Jordan_U, looks like this: http://askubuntu.com/questions/584922/how-do-i-fix-fonts-not-rendering-and-missing-letters
[22:52] <geirha> jamie2: That may break a lot
[22:52] <geirha> (which is why it's unsupported)
[22:53] <jamie2> geirha: if it does i redo make
[22:57] <myessail> I just installed 15.10 on my macbook, and it is running very hot. I've been through all the suggestions on google with no luck (and most of them are pretty old too). is there anything else I can try?
[23:00] <benfitzpatrick> hi everyone well im a virgin noob to linux and ubuntu and computers period and i have no idea how to install a OS or anything period on a pc. So i felt i come in this chat and see if someone can help me install Ubuntu on my laptop?
[23:01] <benfitzpatrick> see, i had someone install my windows OS and i havent even heard of linux period
[23:02] <rypervenche> benfitzpatrick: That is a lie. I have helped you install Gentoo on your machine multiple times and you keep distro hopping. Stop asking people to walk you through Linux installations.
[23:03] <Jordan_U> thezugswang: I would be very surprised if that font problem is related to graphics drivers.
[23:03] <benfitzpatrick> rypervenche: ryper, if you seriously think i will ever do linux on my own, your only lying to yourself man
[23:04] <benfitzpatrick> that is a false hope that will never become reality
[23:04] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: rypervenche no need for personal attacks in here. benfitzpatrick we dont support handholding, we try to get you to learn to manage your OS yourself. so what is the real issue?
[23:05] <squarecircle> ohai, having trouble with pairing my bluetooth devices under debian and gnome. are there related problems under ubuntu?
[23:05] <benfitzpatrick> well im sorry kil, that IS the real issue
[23:05] <squarecircle> I would eventually change back to ubuntu, if its supporting my Hardware better ;)
[23:05] <benfitzpatrick> i have issues running it alone
[23:06] <benfitzpatrick> i really have no way to
[23:06] <k1l> squarecircle: depends. at least "it works for me" :)  you can try a live usb and test it
[23:07] <squarecircle> k1l: I fear that it might work
[23:07] <squarecircle> k1l: I just spend the time to configure my freshly installed system :D
[23:07] <k1l> squarecircle: your choice :)
[23:07] <rypervenche> k1l: I just wanted people to be aware that that was a straight-up lie and he just admitted it. Feel free to help him if you wish.
[23:08] <benfitzpatrick> rypervenche: its NOT a lie ryper, you know i dont know Linux. if you think i do, your seriously wrong man
[23:08] <rypervenche> I'll leave this alone now. Not the place for this conversation.
[23:09] <squarecircle> rypervenche: want to help medebugging my buggy bluetooth?
[23:09] <benfitzpatrick> -sighs-
[23:09] <squarecircle> ;)
[23:09] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: start a live usb with ubuntu on it and start the installer. i am sure you will manage to install it.
[23:09] <k1l> rypervenche: thanks
[23:09] <benfitzpatrick> kil i did already try to boot a CD or usb of ubuntu i didnt
[23:09] <benfitzpatrick> i was flat out lost
[23:09] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: where exactly?
[23:10] <benfitzpatrick> kil i loaded it up and was freaked out and shut off the machine and was about ready to throw the PC out the window
[23:10] <rypervenche> squarecircle: First thing first we would need to see what wireless card you are using. lspci -nn | grep Network
[23:10] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: you keep saying: "i couldnt run the car, i couldnt run the car" but you are not saying what exactly didnt work.
[23:11] <benfitzpatrick> i mean i didnt know how to navigate the OS i didnt know where anything was, it was like learning asian
[23:11] <benfitzpatrick> it was like i was in japan
[23:11] <benfitzpatrick> and couldnt do anything
[23:12] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop/install-ubuntu-desktop
[23:12] <benfitzpatrick> i was sitting there with a blank face and a dead stare
[23:12] <k1l> work with that.
[23:12] <benfitzpatrick> well i did look at that and got the same reaction
[23:12] <benfitzpatrick> it freaked me out
[23:12] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: stop trolling.
[23:13] <benfitzpatrick> well, im being 100 percent truthful to you
[23:13] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: why are you trying to install ubuntu?
[23:13] <benfitzpatrick> because windows is not the OS i want and, it breaks all the time
[23:13] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: With the questions you are asking, Ubuntu isn't for you
[23:14] <k1l> benfitzpatrick: use the howto i just linked you. that works 100%. just follow the steps
[23:14] <benfitzpatrick> well the problem being kil, my parents demanded i use linux and i get someone to help me
[23:14] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: a couple things
[23:15] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: 1) his name is k1l. The number 1, not the letter i
[23:15] <benfitzpatrick> oh
[23:15] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: 2) I doubt your parents said that, but it is comical that you tried to claim that
[23:15] <benfitzpatrick> well they really have
[23:15] <squarecircle> rypervenche: Product: Broadcom Bluetooth Device
[23:15] <benfitzpatrick> they're watching me over my shoulder as i talk to you
[23:16] <rypervenche> squarecircle: We will need the exact output of that command. Can you pastebin it? Also, what sort of problems are you having with pairing?
[23:16] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: no they didn't and no they aren't. First, they would have to know what linux is, which in all likelyhood they don't. Even if they do, they wouldn't "demand that you use it and ask someone else for help"
[23:17] <benfitzpatrick> well my dad just for real said it
[23:17] <tgm4883> benfitzpatrick: tell him to piss off
[23:17] <squarecircle> rypervenche: I click on "connect" the gui seems to click, but in sthe second the lcick animation is done it swichtes back
[23:17] <benfitzpatrick> well he said if they cuss at you, we will ground you and take away your laptop
[23:17] <Jordan_U> tgm4883: That's not helpful, please stay civil.
[23:18] <Jordan_U> benfitzpatrick: It's clear that you're not interested in actually getting support. Please join #ubuntu-ops if you wish to discuss your mute.
[23:18] <tgm4883> Jordan_U: you're probably right, I shouldn't feed the trolls
[23:20] <Estheliel-> That kind of trolling was very weak. He could've done better.
[23:20] <CoolRabbit> hello all
[23:21] <CoolRabbit> just got back from reinstalling 14.04 on a old (to Apple - 2008) mac ... would like to know any known issues with unity-tweaks ?
[23:21] <squarecircle> rypervenche: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15222984/
[23:22] <squarecircle> rypervenche: and this is my lsusb: http://paste.ubuntu.com/15222993/
[23:23] <rypervenche> squarecircle: Hmmm, yeah I don't think I'll be much help. I don't have too much experience with Bluetooth, especially on Ubuntu. But that is some of the information that someone else will need to be able to help you.
[23:24] <squarecircle> rypervenche: anyway, a lot of thanks :)
[23:47] <ubuntu725> Im having a issue booting ubuntu-15.10-desktop-amd64. I'm running from a dell E521 with windows 7 amd Athlon 64 X2 dual core. I hit f12 then choose USB.zip and i go directly to a black screen with flashing cursor?
[23:48] <k1l> ubuntu725: usb.zip?
[23:48] <k1l> ubuntu725: how did you make that ubuntu usb?
[23:55] <Gallomimia> sounds like your usb wasn't flashed properly
[23:55] <webigor> hello
[23:55] <webigor> is it official channel?
[23:55] <Gallomimia> ubuntu725: still there?
[23:56] <webigor> me?
[23:56] <webigor> I just entered
[23:56] <reisio> webigor: yes
[23:56] <webigor> Thanks
[23:57] <rem505> hello I'm trying out the live dvd for 14.04.4 LTS and while it starts to boot it get stuck on a brown screen with a (picture of something = happy star person) @ the bottom
[23:58] <webigor> Did you choosen correct architecture?


[03:42] <pleia2> AlanBell: thanks for replying, I'm at a conference this weekend so my access is limited


[06:04] <tuxinator> Hi guys, sorry too early on the morning, forgot to use paste-service and thus "Drone" jumped in and made me silent ;-)
[06:04] <Unit193> It did, but already unmuted you too, so you should be good to speak.
[06:04] <tuxinator> Thx a lot! did my last message with the paste link already go through?
[06:05] <Unit193> Nope.
[06:05] <tuxinator> ok, thx
[06:05] <tuxinator> have a nice day and sorry again
[06:06] <Unit193> No problemo
[15:39] <RikMills> klined :D


[07:05] <dholbach> good morning
[07:07] <bkerensa> dholbach: Good morning
[07:07] <dholbach> hi bkerensa
[07:08] <bkerensa> dholbach: I was going to see if someone from your team could ping the managers and find a small list of new features in 13.10 we want to highlight to users in What's New doc so I can get it in here maybe in the next week or so?
[07:09] <dholbach> bkerensa, Jono does a blog series about stuff that's new right now - I guess that could be used?
[07:10] <bkerensa> dholbach: does he tag these blog posts or name them in some way?
[07:10] <dholbach> linked from http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/08/21/ubuntu-in-a-nutshell-series/
[07:10] <dholbach> hola ara
[07:11] <bkerensa> hmm
[07:12] <bkerensa> dholbach: so I think thats more process... Looking more for gems of new features that would be different from last release
[07:12] <bkerensa> here is 13.04 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-doc/ubuntu-docs/saucy/view/head:/ubuntu-help/C/whats-new.page
[07:12] <bkerensa> which was mostly unchanged from 12.10
[07:12] <bkerensa> hoping to list some significant changes this cycle
[07:12] <philipballew> hola dholbach bkerensa.
[07:12] <bkerensa> maybe ask Desktop Team?
[07:13] <smartboyhw> Hello dholbach
[07:14] <dholbach> hi philipballew, smartboyhw
[07:14] <dholbach> bkerensa, sure - you can just ask them in #ubuntu-desktop - the Europeans should have just woken up or should in a bit :)
[07:14] <philipballew> smartboyhw, up early?
[07:14] <smartboyhw> philipballew, oy!? It's 3:14 P.M. here
[07:14] <ara> dholbach, hey
[07:15] <philipballew> oh, where in the world are you these days smartboyhw ?
[07:15] <smartboyhw> philipballew, back at home in Hong Kong
[07:15] <philipballew> ah, ubuntu says it is 4:15 am there. Must be a glitch or something...
[07:15] <smartboyhw> philipballew, HUH
[07:16] <smartboyhw> It's your own time right?
[07:16] <philipballew> smartboyhw, No, its 12:15 am here
[07:16] <smartboyhw> philipballew, go to sleep:)
[07:16] <philipballew> In Ubuntu with the clock you can add a drop down menu to show other cities.
[07:17] <smartboyhw> philipballew, obviously your time it's wrong:P
[07:17] <philipballew> smartboyhw, I get my 8 hours in somehow!
[07:17] <philipballew> smartboyhw, Yeah... I should really fix my laptop one day
[07:29] <philipballew> welcome aboard dpm !
[08:27] <dpm> hi philipballew, hi dholbach
[12:41]  * dholbach takes the dog for a walk and relocates to the office
[13:29] <dholbach> balloons, are you back to work today again?
[13:29] <balloons> dholbach, I am back indeed
[13:30] <dholbach> awesome
[13:30] <dholbach> can we have a quick call in a bit?
[13:30] <balloons> mind meld? brain dump?
[13:30] <balloons> yes, for sure
[13:30] <dholbach> awesome :)
[13:30] <elfy> wb balloons - hope you had a good break
[13:30] <dholbach> balloons, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/2f80a6e2a84265027d44ae1b00e1bded81db0719
[16:34] <dholbach> all right my friends - have a great rest of your day! see you!
[17:27] <jono> balloons, not sure we need a call, seems you and I are pretty aligned
[17:27] <jono> I assume you would rather focus on the Mir MM prep anyway
[17:28] <balloons> jono, that sounds fine. basically as we said, mir testing, vUDS sessions, core-apps tests followup.
[17:29] <balloons> lots of finishing details on all of those
[17:29] <jono> thanks balloons


[01:32] <jgould> I'm pondering a relayout of my desk...
[01:33] <Unit193> Do a standing one! :P
[01:36] <jgould> I have a really nice corner desk from Ikea (Galant Series) I'm just going to be retooling the way things are laid out on the desk