[02:58] <doctormo-other> wendar: Hey there
[02:58] <doctormo-other> I had two ideas today about ubuntu-design.
[02:59] <doctormo-other> I think we might want to do a twitter account, so people interested can follow. And we should set up a meeting date for people to come and talk about what we're going to do.
[03:04] <mpt> design.ubuntu.com redirects to design.canonical.com?
[03:05] <mpt> hmmmmmmmmm
[03:08] <doctormo-other> mpt: Yes, something to think about.
[03:09] <mpt> Fixing that would be difficult but would have good effects
[03:09] <mhall119> fixing a redirect is easy
[03:09] <mhall119> making the different meaningful is what will be hard
[03:09] <mpt> yes
[03:17] <doctormo-other> What do we need the page to say?
[03:18] <doctormo-other> A twitter feed, an image bin history and maybe a blog?
[03:20] <mhall119> doctormo-other: depends on what we want the site to *do*
[03:20] <doctormo-other> Communicate?
[03:20] <doctormo-other> As tools go we have zero, I think an image bin a first step.
[03:20] <doctormo-other> thoughts?
[03:21] <mhall119> doctormo-other: I'd like to see something more bi-directional
[03:22] <doctormo-other> mhall119: I'd like a magical powers to make code too ;-) what kind of thing?
[03:22] <mhall119> the designers in the community don't have much that let's them build and contribute back to what is coming out of canonical
[03:23] <mhall119> doctormo-other: what would a "launchpad for designers" look like, in your mind?
[03:23] <mhall119> something to think about
[03:23]  * mhall119 is off to bed
[03:23] <doctormo-other> mhall119: lol, sleep on it.
[03:24] <mhall119> hey, I'm a developer, I already have launchpad
[03:24] <doctormo-other> What we need to think about is code creation resources, if we try and make something, we'll move very slowely.
[03:24] <mhall119> code creation?  you talking app design?
[03:25] <mhall119> hmmmm, how about glade files, instead of image mockups? something like that?
[03:25] <mhall119> but it'll need to be more than just desktop apps, even more than just webapps, how about just straight artwork?
[03:26] <mhall119> gah, now I won't be able to sleep
[03:27] <mhall119> anyway, think about what kind of artwork-development project management/workflow management would help get community and canonical designers working together
[03:27] <mhall119> I think file and tool compatibility will be a big hurdle we'll be faced with
[03:28] <doctormo-other> mhall119: The stratedgy is to get the ubuntu design team off the ground without Canonical's team or coherence with that team.
[03:28] <mhall119> who's goal is that?
[03:28] <doctormo-other> But, perhaps with several of the people who just coincidentally are members of the Canonical team
[03:28] <mhall119> my goal was to get Canonical's design team involved with the community
[03:29] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Yes, that's the end goal.
[03:29] <mhall119> ok, we can brainstorm more tomorrow
[03:29] <mhall119> g'night all
[03:30] <doctormo-other> night
[03:37] <mpt> One of Canonical's designers actually came up with a design for a designer equivalent to Launchpad
[03:37] <mpt> a couple of years ago
[03:37] <wendar> mpt: I was looking for that yesterday to hand to doctormo
[03:38] <wendar> mpt: do you have the spec?
[03:38] <mpt> It's not public, but I did my own variation of it
[03:38] <wendar> mpt: I can't find it in my google docs anymore
[03:38] <wendar> mpt: ah cool
[03:38]  * mpt realizes who wendar is :-)
[03:39] <wendar> mpt: I know we may have to do some steps to get the old one public, but it's not an active project
[03:39] <mpt> right
[03:39] <wendar> mpt: and would be a shame to waste all the work he put into it
[03:40] <wendar> doctormo-other: I like the twitter idea
[03:42] <mpt> looking now
[03:42]  * doctormo-other is interested
[03:42] <wendar> mpt: I noticed the design.ubuntu.com redirect too, should be easy to swap once we have a page to point it to
[03:50] <mpt> wendar, I can't find it either. All I found is a research interview he did with mvo beforehand.
[03:53] <mpt> wendar, doctormo-other: Here's my specification editor sketches: http://imgur.com/a/8xTN5
[03:55] <doctormo-other> mpt: Are those sketches for a desktop app?
[03:56] <mpt> doctormo-other, it could be desktop or Web. There's nothing specific to either, really.
[03:58] <doctormo-other> mpt: I don't understand the design yet, maybe you can walk me through it sometime.
[03:59] <mpt> sure
[04:00] <doctormo-other> What is the job of the tool of the design team?
[04:04] <mpt> That particular tool is for writing, tracking changes in, commenting on, and organizing design specifications
[04:05] <mpt> so that they're easier to edit, organize, and find fragments of, than wiki pages
[04:05] <mpt> and so that they're more expressive than bug reports or blueprints
[04:06] <mpt> There's a loud conversation going on here, and now I realize that I'm not sure if that's what you meant by "the tool of the design team" :-)
[04:22] <doctormo-other> mpt: No that makes sense.
[04:22] <doctormo-other> We have tools to help designers collaborate, and then tools we need as a community.
[10:34] <daker> hello
[10:39] <czajkowski> aloha folks
[18:40] <doctormo-other> Hey thorwil
[18:43] <thorwil> hi doctormo-other. so what's the state of affairs?
[18:45] <doctormo-other> thorwil: We want a community design team, at least as far as a place for designers to come to.
[18:45] <doctormo-other> The discussion at UDS showed that the community team and the internal design team have a motivation to see this happen.
[18:46] <doctormo-other> There are two things to do: find tools to do collaborative design and, perform a redesign of an application in the cycle.
[18:51] <thorwil> a clear goal and deadline should help
[18:52] <thorwil> i worry that the motivation of the canonical design team is not worth much, given what has happened, or rather didn't happen, so far
[18:53] <thorwil> my impression that every team member is already stretched thin due to a workload of which the community has all in all no idea
[18:55] <thorwil> doctormo-other: are you aware of http://mediagoblin.org/ ?
[18:55] <doctormo-other> I am.
[18:56] <thorwil> it doesn't have the versioning support i would wish for, but might be ... at least something at hand
[18:58] <pleia2> anyone know if there SVGs available of the new pangolin logo?
[18:59] <doctormo-other> thorwil: Another suggestion was sparkleshare or ubuntu-one
[18:59] <doctormo-other> pleia2: What does the  pangolin logo look like now?
[19:00] <pleia2> doctormo-other: like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6326022129
[19:01] <thorwil> doctormo-other: those are reasonable options, with the risk to lead to a gnome design team like situation, where most happens on irc. so you either are there, or you are square
[19:01] <doctormo-other> wendar: We have a request which needs the attention of the Canonical design team.
[19:02] <doctormo-other> thorwil: Very true.
[21:35] <mhall119> doctormo-other: is there anything like etherpad for sketching?
[21:37] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Real time or bazaar time?
[21:40] <mhall119> real time
[21:41] <mhall119> I know bzr like is hard to do with images
[21:41] <doctormo-other> mhall119: Depends, you can use sparkleshare for that.
[21:42] <mhall119> doctormo-other: I was thinking something like a shared whiteboard you can draw on
[21:42] <mhall119> nothing for making nice graphics, just collaborating on design brainstorming
[21:51] <wendar> doctormo-other: hi, what's the request?
[21:52] <wendar> doctormo-other: I'm working on setting up a meeting time for interested community designers with them next week, so might just fit in with that
[21:52] <doctormo-other> wendar: pleia2 asks for the svg for the the new pangolin logo. shown here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/6326022129
[21:53] <doctormo-other> wendar: One of the concerns for thorwil was that Canonical staff will be far too busy and too stressed with work to be able to contribute to the community.
[21:53] <doctormo-other> Meeting sounds great.
[21:53] <wendar> doctormo-other: makes sense, I'm not sure who is the right person to get that from, but we'll find out together
[21:54] <wendar> doctormo-other: he's quite right to be concerned, they are stretched pretty thin. It certainly wouldn't work to expect them to do all the design work, but that's not really what this is about.
[21:55] <wendar> doctormo-other: What we want to do is unblock the community contribtions, so the available time of the Canonical staff designers isn't what everyone is waiting on.
[21:56] <wendar> doctormo-other: if MOTU were waiting on Canonical's Foundations team to do any work, it'd all fall apart.
[21:56] <doctormo-other> wendar: Yes, but the community will need critical mass to form a core to build form.
[21:56] <wendar> doctormo-other: But, the Canonical designers have volunteered their time to help the community team get started.
[21:56] <doctormo-other> The foundations team started that core by doing all their work in the community.
[21:57] <wendar> doctormo-other: I suspect we're going to need a different model here, where the community designers lead by example.
[21:58] <doctormo-other> We're going to be stuck if we're all waiting on everyone else ;-)
[21:58] <doctormo-other> Part of the ideal here is that Canonical designers when volunteering consider themselves as community designers.
[21:58] <doctormo-other> Not as special forces ;-)
[21:58] <wendar> Get a community design team going, doing productive, collaborative work, and lead the Canonical designers in by showing them how well it works.
[21:59] <wendar> There's only a tiny sliver of difference between the way they work now, and the way they could work with all of you.
[22:00] <wendar> But, right now their primary exposure to public collaboration is the ayatana list.
[22:00] <wendar> Not the best example of harmonious collaboation.
[22:01] <doctormo-other> Not at all :-D
[22:01]  * mpt wonders what he just missed
[22:01] <doctormo-other> Ayatana: Imbalanced expectations with imbalanced skill requirements.
[22:02] <wendar> yeah, and over time building up frustrations because of no clear way to participate
[22:03] <wendar> So we reset, and lead the way
[22:03] <wendar> We know how to collaborate, it's a matter of carrying those good principles into a new space
[22:04] <doctormo-other> Hello jono
[22:11] <jono> hey
[22:11] <cjohnston> jono: !
[22:11] <jono> :-)
[22:11] <cjohnston> jono did you get the email i sent you about having created this room?
[22:12] <jono> no?
[22:13] <cjohnston> You asked me to send you an email about this room last week so you could help promote the design team joining.. I'm pretty sure I sent it to you.. but it was during UDS
[22:14] <cjohnston> either way.. its created
[22:24] <doctormo-other> mhall119 or cjohnston are you any good at Javascript?
[22:24] <cjohnston> no.. we need a js person :-(
[22:25] <doctormo-other> I did a big search for whiteboards, and there just aren't any good ones. The ones that were good have been bought up by blackboard and salesforce and killed off.
[22:26] <doctormo-other> So I had a look at etherpad, I think etherpad + google's svg-edit would give everything required and more.
[22:26] <cjohnston> required for what
[22:27] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: Collaborative editing/whiteboarding for design, mhall119 was asking about it.
[22:27] <cjohnston> hmm.. ok
[22:31] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: No problem is there?
[22:31] <cjohnston> np
[22:31] <cjohnston> no
[22:31] <cjohnston> just wasnt familiar with the conversation
[22:32] <doctormo-other> cjohnston: Are you having a relaxing Friday? *hug*
[22:33] <cjohnston> i wish.. im at work
[22:46] <mhall119> doctormo-other: not really on the javascript
[22:56] <AlanBell> cjohnston: was there a specific session at UDS that caused this room to be created? or some  background on it?
[22:56] <cjohnston> AlanBell: brand guidelines
[22:57] <cjohnston> i mentioned that we have a desire to have discussion with the design team, but there isnt a 'place' to do that
[22:57] <AlanBell> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19528/design-online-brand-guidelines/ that one
[22:57] <AlanBell> perfect, thanks
[22:57] <cjohnston> ya.. i believe so
[22:58] <AlanBell> I think this is a good idea, I never really understood the ayatana concept and why it was kind of outside of Ubuntu
[22:59] <pleia2> AlanBell: that's what we all said
[22:59] <AlanBell> and more engagement with the design team is great, particularly from the accessibility perspective, getting it designed in rather than designed out saves a lot of effort
[23:00] <doctormo-other> AlanBell: The concept was broad and without buy-in from all parties.
[23:55] <wendar> AlanBell: also http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-p/meeting/19502/community-p-ux-participation/
[23:56] <wendar> AlanBell: that's not where the channel was created, but it came up as a good meeting point for that blueprint also
[23:57] <AlanBell> thanks


[00:50] <AskUbuntu> Motorola razr hd XT925 - touch preview | http://askubuntu.com/q/311593
[00:54] <AmEv> Hmmm... Trying to compile a kernel, but can't get it to fit in a proper boot.img...
[03:24] <postmodern> so will ubuntu phone image contain apt-get?
[03:24] <postmodern> so i can install .deb packages for arm?
[05:30] <djjeff> I put raring onto my tablet and it works
[05:30] <djjeff> I put saucy onto my tablet
[05:30] <djjeff> it starts but the screen is all black
[05:31] <djjeff> what could be causing that
[05:31] <djjeff> drivers were changed in saucy?
[06:03] <djjeff> I can do adb shell and get into the chroot ubuntu when running saucy and was able to check /var/log
[06:04] <djjeff> postmodern it already has apt-get
[06:04] <dorsatum> hi, guys, i tried at my hand at the standard currency converter app, the issue i had was that initially Componentshowcase.qml wouldn't work, because a number of components were not installed
[06:04] <djjeff> you just need to chroot into /data/ubuntu
[06:10] <dorsatum> Now, the qml file is there but once i type Qt in the dash
[06:10] <dorsatum> i get 4 resultss for Qt Components for components showcase
[06:11] <dorsatum> how can this  be resolved?
[06:21] <dorsatum> any ideas?
[07:14] <popey> postmodern: it does currently, but I don't know about the final version
[07:18] <AskUbuntu> ubuntu touch os for Sony xperia go | http://askubuntu.com/q/311655
[09:18] <TobyK> Hi... in which order should I flash the armhf vs armle files?
[09:21] <popey> TobyK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install#Manual_Installation
[09:21] <TobyK> got it, thanks popey
[10:41] <postmodern> popey, awesome, i hope it does, somehow!
[10:41] <postmodern> popey, it would make things much simpler for me and other developers
[10:59] <ogra_> postmodern, by default apt will be disabled in the final image, app will be installed using click packages, but there will be a "developer" option that lets you enable apt if desired
[10:59] <ogra_> *apps
[10:59] <postmodern> ogra_, why?
[11:00] <ogra_> because we do image based updates of the system
[11:00] <postmodern> ogra_, i guess being able to re-enable it is better than having to jail break the phone ;)
[11:00] <ogra_> (the developer option will disable that and you will need to use apt, cant have both reliably)
[11:01] <postmodern> ogra_, that sounds like a _horrible_ system update design
[11:01] <postmodern> ogra_, user install apt packagees should be installed outside of the main system image ?
[11:01] <ogra_> why ? apt isnt the primary tool on a target to install anything for endusers
[11:02] <ogra_> that would require heavi modification of apt for no good
[11:02] <ogra_> the default install mechanism are click packges
[11:03] <ogra_> an enduser wil never get in touch with apt
[11:03] <postmodern> ogra_, then sounds like apt isn't verify configurable and highly coupled to /usr
[11:04] <ogra_> the point is that apt is a system wide tool that requires administrative rights ... click packages are user based
[11:05] <ogra_> additionally there is the fact that / will be readonly ... you would have to remount it all the time for apt actions
[11:06] <ogra_> (there also wont be any UI for apt/debs)
[11:07] <ogra_> it is a tool for developers that use the commandline, we will indeed offer a way for you to use it, but it wont be the default
[11:07] <postmodern> ogra_, sounds like a design limitation in apt
[11:08] <ogra_> that it doesnt allow per user installed packages ?
[11:08] <ogra_> yeah, kind of
[11:08] <ogra_> but then it was never designed for that from the grouod up
[11:08] <ogra_> *ground
[11:09] <ogra_> beyond the fact that it is way to heavyweight for a phone
[11:09] <ogra_> (you need to maintain huge databases on disk etc)
[11:24] <ogra_> hmm, no tedg ...
[11:25] <ogra_> teh hud service looks really bad wrt startup time http://people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-touch/bootchart-maguro.png
[11:25] <ogra_> (friends-dispatcher too
[11:25] <ogra_> )
[11:29] <postmodern> ogra_, sounds your contradicting yourself
[11:29] <ogra_> ?
[11:30] <ogra_> postmodern, in what ?
[11:30] <postmodern> ogra_, should be a way to install additional packages
[11:31] <ogra_> for developers there will be ...  the default package management is done via click packages though
[11:31] <postmodern> ogra_, ok
[11:32] <ogra_> there wont be any UI integration with apt, you will only be able to use it from commandline ... so there is no reason to enable it by default (or ship endless megabytes of package DBs in the image)
[11:33] <ogra_> and as i said above it breaks the concept of diffed system upgrades
[11:34] <ogra_> s/system/system image/
[15:00] <AskUbuntu> ctrl+R shortcut doesnt work anymore | http://askubuntu.com/q/311770
[17:05] <AmEv_> Eh...?
[17:06] <AmEv_> Trying to get a "custom" kernel, but when I add the configs and patth, it makes the zImage too big.
[17:07] <ogra_> define to big
[17:11] <AmEv_> It came out 3.8MB.
[17:12] <AmEv_> Then initrd.img was .2MB.
[17:12] <AmEv_> So, 4MB.
[17:15] <AmEv> It does boot into Android without the patches on the Wiki, but adding them, abootimg chews me out that it's too big.
[17:15] <AmEv> The new kernel, keeping the ramdisk.
[17:17] <AmEv> Then there's the issue of black screen on boktup...
[17:17] <AmEv> PS: antares is my device.
[17:26] <AmEv> So, what is the best way to troubleshoot blank screen on boot?
[17:28] <AmEv> Still going to try the latest image....
[18:51] <mcmohan> hi
[18:52] <mcmohan> im looking for some help in installing ubuntu touch
[18:53] <mcmohan> hi anybody there
[18:55] <mcmohan> hi guys
[18:56] <mcmohan> im looking help in installing ubuntu touch
[18:56] <mcmohan> anybody can help me?
[18:57] <wilee-nilee> mcmohan, I can't help other than to say all the info you need is in the channel headers.
[18:58] <mcmohan> yes
[18:58] <mcmohan> im stuck in final step
[18:58] <mcmohan> since in not very good in linux
[19:01] <wilee-nilee> mcmohan, You realize this is in development, there is not much there really, and to do anything with it you will have to have some experience, IE in knowing how to chroot...etc. In other words you may find it even if you get it running not done yet and satifactory.
[19:01] <wilee-nilee> not satisfactory*
[19:02] <wilee-nilee> At least that is what I found, nice golas of the development of it but hardly close to finish.
[19:02] <wilee-nilee> goals*
[19:06] <popey> mcmohan: whats the specific issue?
[19:10] <gnito> touch on the note 2?
[19:15] <popey> gnito: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices its listed there
[19:15] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices/n7100 is the specific page
[19:23] <gnito> the n7100 is the unlock version, i have the AT&T
[19:54] <wilee-nilee> mhall119, I recognized you, lol
[19:54] <mhall119> so it's not just lurking, it's stalking :)
[19:56] <wilee-nilee> lol I actually help in #ubuntu at times, actually just lurking the channels is a great education.
[19:57] <wilee-nilee> on the OS's
[19:58] <mhall119> that's actually why I lurk in most of the channels too
[19:59] <popey> I lurk because I'm following mhall119
[19:59]  * mhall119 constantly looks over his shoulder
[19:59] <netcurli> :D
[20:00] <popey> Yeah, keep watching buddy..
[20:01] <wilee-nilee> I'm just a couch enthusiast, just happened to get a computer from a recycler that was ubuntu when I returned to college, never had used a computer regularly, and found open source to be an interesting secondary pursuit.
[20:01] <popey> Oh that's rather excellent
[20:02] <wilee-nilee> Kind of a obsession really, I'm in a intercultural studies program otherwise, lol
[21:11] <AndroUser> Hoi
[21:14] <Frederik> Hi
[21:50] <AskUbuntu> No keyboard in wireless app for Saucy Touch 22? | http://askubuntu.com/q/311907
[22:00] <yakov> hello
[22:01] <popey> hi yakov
[22:01] <yakov> i tried to install touch on nexus 7 3g but seems like install stuck on 'waiting for device'
[22:01] <yakov> could you give me some hints
[22:01] <popey> how did you install?
[22:01] <yakov> usual install from wiki
[22:01] <yakov> phablet-flash -d grouper -b
[22:02] <yakov> installer rebooted device to boot menu and stuck with message <waiting for device>


[14:24] <knome> hello! we need an upload for ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu; i've just pushed xubuntu slides for 16.04 and bumped version numbers on all slideshows up to 16.04 as well as updated translation templates for everybody
[15:28]  * flexiondotorg agrees with knome.
[15:30] <rbasak> docker.io is broken on powerpc, so isn't migrating. Would it be acceptable to delete that binary please, so that everything else migrates?
[15:32] <rbasak> We're not aware that anyone cares, and having Docker 1.6 instead of 1.10 in the release pocket is worse we think.
[16:07]  * flexiondotorg wonders if infinity is still sunning himself on some jolly? ;-)
[16:12] <apw> flexiondotorg, i think it is night for him at the current time
[16:13] <flexiondotorg> :-)
[16:13] <flexiondotorg> Sun bed?
[17:06] <cyphermox> chiluk: ^
[17:08] <knome> cyphermox, would you be willing to take care of the ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu upload or was that a ping re: that? :)
[17:08] <cyphermox> sure I can upload ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[17:08] <cyphermox> chiluk wanted me to sponsor a coreutils SRU earlier
[17:15] <knome> cyphermox, right'o, and thanks :)
[17:16] <cyphermox> is it already all in the code branch?
[17:16] <knome> yes, the things i mentioned are ready in the branch
[17:17] <knome> i don't know if other flavors have something incoming today
[17:17] <knome> cyphermox, https://launchpad.net/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[17:18] <knome> cyphermox, the updates are revisions 724-726 in trunk
[17:18] <knome> hmm, looks like there are some merge requests
[17:19] <knome> i can merge those so you only have to take care of the uploading
[17:19] <knome> give me 15 mins :)
[17:20] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, Please https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu/ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu-mate-xenial/+merge/282117
[17:20] <knome> flexiondotorg, i'm on it
[17:20] <flexiondotorg> knome, ty
[17:21] <cyphermox> ahah, so I approved it but didn't merge?
[17:21] <flexiondotorg> Yeah :-)
[17:21] <knome> cyphermox, hold it! :)
[17:22] <knome> cyphermox, i'll take care of the merge in a second
[17:22] <cyphermox> knome: I know, I know ;)
[17:22] <knome> also merging the gnome stuff
[17:22] <cyphermox> cool
[17:22] <knome> ...which seems to be invalid markup, so i'll go fix that next...
[17:23] <cyphermox> ah
[17:26] <knome> ok, merged mate and gnome stuff, updated translation templates again as well as updated the changelog
[17:34] <flexiondotorg> knome, Many thanks!
[17:35] <knome> no problem
[17:35] <knome> good that i remembered to check that and you were around...
[17:35] <knome> if you need stuff merged to the slideshow branch in the future, feel free to poke me
[17:51] <cyphermox> knome: flexiondotorg: test build and then I'll upload
[17:51] <knome> :)
[18:23] <knome> so since it's the UIF day and i didn't get any response on #ubuntu-devel...
[18:24] <knome> could somebody look at bug 1555046 and get the package uploaded? the shimmer-themes package is snatched from us by some packageset magic to kubuntu, so we can't do the upload ourself
[18:24] <knome> thanks!
[18:56] <coreycb> hello, can an archive admin please promote python3-positional to main?  python-positional should already be in main.  this will help get some OpenStack packages out of dependency waits.
[18:58] <chiluk> cyphermox.. yeah arges uploaded it yesterday, but its sitting in unapproved.  Looks like you might have just re-uploaded it again.
[18:58] <chiluk> cyphermox you don't happen to be on the SRU team are you?
[18:58] <cyphermox> no, but arges is
[18:58] <chiluk> oh I thought you were on the SRU team. bugger..
[18:59] <arges> cyphermox: well i uploaded it... so i should have another SRU person review
[18:59] <knome> cyphermox, since you seem to be in a helpful mood, maybe you could look at my request above O:)
[18:59] <cyphermox> right
[18:59] <chiluk> I guess I can get arges to cancel his upload and accept yours
[18:59] <chiluk> since he's already done the review.
[19:00] <chiluk> arges what do you say?
[19:00] <arges> oh it was uploaded again.. did i forget to unsubscribe sponsors?
[19:00] <cyphermox> arges: yeah, it was still in the list
[19:00] <arges> sorry about that
[19:00] <cyphermox> no worries... as for me I should have checked the queue to be sure before uploading
[19:01] <arges> ok rejected mine, i'm happy to sru review your upload then
[19:01] <chiluk> cool.. yay arges.. the bane of my existence may finally be complete!
[19:01] <chiluk> until we find the next regression I've introduced.
[19:02] <knome> upload an empty package, less potential for regressions.
[19:02] <knome> ;)=
[19:02] <cyphermox> knome: only if it was empty before that too ;)
[19:02] <chiluk> knome: if only that would make users happy.
[19:02] <knome> cyphermox, it's a feature, not a bug...
[19:02] <arges> and it doesn't rebuild with different deps that could cause bugs
[19:03] <cyphermox> knome: uploaded ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
[19:03] <knome> great!
[19:03] <coreycb> can an archive admin also promote python3-sphinx-argparse to main?  the MIR is Fix Released.  this will also help get some OpenStack packages out of dependency waits.
[19:04] <knome> now we're only missing one of the last-minute uploads ;)
[23:13] <yofel> a big thanks to whoever did all the new processing!


[12:13] <bddebian> crimsun: Do you happen to know/comprehend the sort order of packages on REVU?
[12:15] <crimsun> sorry, I'm using a new irc client (konversation), and I'm not used to its lack of displaying notifications
[12:16] <crimsun> bddebian: no idea
[12:16] <crimsun> rexbron: about?
[12:16] <rexbron> crimsun: the murrine package
[12:19] <tsmithe> bddebian, it's by needs_work
[12:19] <tsmithe> :P
[12:19] <tsmithe> i think it should be by date
[12:19] <tsmithe> but apparently needs_work is better
[12:20] <crimsun> no, needs_work is better
[12:20] <bddebian> By "needs work" what?
[12:20] <tsmithe> it's a field in the table
[12:20] <crimsun> by date would pull all the oldest/newest to the top
[12:20] <crimsun> that would -suck- in terms of drive-by revuing
[12:20] <tsmithe> really?
[12:21] <tsmithe> ok
[12:21] <bddebian> Well at least displaying a year would be nice ;-)
[12:21] <tsmithe> yeah
[12:21] <crimsun> rexbron: did you upload a new one that you've test-built, installed, and used?
[12:21] <crimsun> sorry, I'm tackling a grave bug in mutagen atm
[12:22] <rexbron> the upload failed and not ftp complains that the .dsc exists
[12:22] <rexbron> crimsun: is still there with -f
[12:22] <crimsun> rexbron: ah, you'll need an admin to remove it (I'm not an admin)
[12:23] <rexbron> any admins for revu here?
[12:26] <rexbron> crimsun: could you ping an admin for revu?
[12:29] <crimsun> I'll have no better luck than what you just did
[12:29] <crimsun> they're either asleep or heading that way
[12:29] <crimsun> (most are in EU or NZ)
[12:30] <rexbron> ugg
[12:31] <tsmithe> yay! eu!
[12:33] <rexbron> ok, I will periocally ask for an admin
[12:36] <rexbron> siretart: ping
[12:36] <siretart> rexbron: You sent me a contentless ping.  This is a contentless pong.  Please provide a bit of information about what you want and I'll respond when I am around.
[12:37] <rexbron> siretart: could you please remove the paritial upload of murrine_0.31-0ubuntu3
[12:38] <rexbron> ajmitch: could you please remove the paritial upload of murrine_0.31-0ubuntu3
[12:44] <rexbron> raphink: could you please remove the paritial upload of murrine_0.31-0ubuntu3
[12:50] <crimsun> argh, bitten by g-v-m's noexec mount flag for external usb drives
[05:42] <Winter-1> hello
[05:42] <Winter-1> can someone tell me how i can go about compiling source to a deb
[05:44] <Hobbsee> as in, for your own system?
[05:44] <Hobbsee> !compile
[05:44] <ubotu> Compiling software from source? Read the tips at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CompilingSoftware (But remember to search for pre-built !packages first: not all !repositories are enabled by default!)
[05:44] <Winter-1> for the community
[05:44] <Hobbsee> ah
[05:44] <Hobbsee> !packagingguide
[05:44] <ubotu> The packaging guide is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/index.html - Other developer resources are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperResources
[05:44] <Hobbsee> check otu ^
[05:45] <Winter-1> what ive noticed is that there seems to lack some debs for 64-bit machines so i decided i wanna step it up and help out
[05:46] <Hobbsee> the problem with that is that some programs dont actually build and work on 64bit machines, hence the lack of debs...
[05:46] <imbrandon> well it depends on the app, all programs that are for i386 should have source for x86_64 too in the repos, its just a matter if it compiled or not
[06:17] <joejaxx> ld: cannot find -lcl
[06:17] <joejaxx> anyone ever come across that before?
[06:18] <joejaxx> it is probably something silly
[06:18] <joejaxx> one of the libs are missing
[06:20] <joejaxx> bddebian: ever come across this before?
[06:21] <bddebian> Never heard of libcl no :-(
[06:21] <joejaxx> me either
[06:34] <joejaxx> has anyone else heard of it?
[07:39] <rexbron> ajmitch: are you there?
[07:43] <crimsun> rexbron: I'd try again in the new year :)
[07:43] <joejaxx> crimsun: ! maybe you know lol
[07:43] <joejaxx> hello rexbron
[07:44] <joejaxx> crimsun: ever heard of -lcl (libcl)?
[07:44] <joejaxx> ie ld not finding it
[07:45] <crimsun> it looks like something pascal-related
[07:46] <crimsun> ...and something hp-ux-specific at that
[07:47] <rexbron> crimsun: I guess, man I want this uploaded
[07:47] <crimsun> rexbron: relax, there won't be any serious archive processing until the second week of Jan '07 anyhow
[07:47] <rexbron> crimsun: Did you solve the problem you were facing?
[07:48] <crimsun> joejaxx: is it related to a crypto lib?
[07:48] <crimsun> rexbron: oh yeah, the fixed binary has been available in feisty for several hours
[07:48] <rexbron> crimsun: thats good
[07:48] <joejaxx> crimsun: it might be i have never ran across a -lcl
[07:49] <crimsun> woops, need to update sbuild
[07:49] <rexbron> crimsun: Maybe you can help. I am trying to install pyperl but it complains that it can not find -lperl
[07:50] <rexbron> also, is it possible to package python modules?
[07:50] <crimsun> rexbron: libperl-dev
[07:50] <rexbron> ok
[07:50] <crimsun> and yes
[07:50] <rexbron> thought I had that
[07:50] <rexbron> but will check
[07:50] <crimsun> see the Debian wiki for Python
[07:50] <rexbron> ok
[07:53] <rexbron> wow...
[07:53] <rexbron> thanks crimsun
[07:53] <rexbron> I should have thought of that
[07:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: i do not know if it is a crypt lib or not
[07:54] <crimsun> joejaxx: what can you deduce from the context?
[07:54] <joejaxx> crimsun: it compiles fine on ubuntu and not gentoo
[07:55] <joejaxx> and i do not have any crypt lib packages installed
[07:55] <joejaxx> crimsun: well this is a bbs
[07:55] <crimsun> hmm, perhaps some use flag(s)?
[07:55] <crimsun> I'm not familiar w/ Gentoo
[07:58] <joejaxx> crimsun: yeah that might be it i will see
[10:10] <neutrinomass> any idea why 'rootstrap' has been removed? pbuilder-uml depends on it
[10:20] <crimsun> neutrinomass, it was removed from hoary and never readded
[10:22] <neutrinomass> crimsun: which I assume was done on purpose ? should I then request a removal of pbuilder-uml as well ?
[10:23] <crimsun> neutrinomass, note that it was also removed from testing earlier this year because of a grave bug due to the u-m-l package at that time not providing devfs, which broke /dev/ubd/1
[10:24] <crimsun> (bug #342694)
[10:25] <crimsun> all that needs to be done is have unstable's rootstrap source package resynced (and unblacklisted if necessary)
[10:26] <crimsun> that probably can be addressed after the new year (circa second week in Jan '07)
[10:27] <neutrinomass> ok then :) thanks !
[11:37] <neutrinomass> how can a package build-depend on itself :-/ ?
[11:37] <tsmithe> in silliness
[11:37] <tsmithe> or a drunken fit of packaging
[11:38] <Hobbsee> hah
[11:38] <neutrinomass> this hasn't built since 2004
[11:38] <tsmithe> drunken i tell you
[11:38] <tsmithe> now it's just lying in the gutter
[11:38] <tsmithe> begging
[11:42] <neutrinomass> heh, it doesn't build if it doesn't build-depend on itself !
[11:43] <Hobbsee> neutrinomass: tell the maintainer to put *down* the crack pipe
[11:44] <Amaranth> lmao
[11:44] <Amaranth> Doesn't mono do some crazy stuff like that?
[11:45] <neutrinomass> Hobbsee: it's quite weird actually, it seems to be OK on debian (1 open bug report, 5 updates in 2006)
[11:45] <neutrinomass> (this is mit-scheme btw)
[11:45] <Amaranth> neutrinomass: it can build depend on itself after it's been bootstrapped
[11:45] <Amaranth> like glibc
[11:46] <Amaranth> you have to do special things to get it to build the first time though :)
[11:47] <neutrinomass> yeah, I suppose so - I'll leave it to somebody else though, it's quite beyond me
[12:54] <tsmithe> do library packages have to be in the form lib<name><version> ?
[12:54] <tsmithe> or can i leave <version> out?
[12:55] <tsmithe> surely apt deals with versions
[12:55] <tsmithe> or is it to keep old binary compatibility?
[12:55] <tsmithe> and thus the old, differently named package
[01:04] <azeem> tsmithe: <version> is the library major version (aka soname), not the package version
[01:04] <tsmithe> yes
[01:05] <tsmithe> ok
[01:05] <tsmithe> so it's still necessary
[01:05] <tsmithe> like i thought...
[01:05] <azeem> it's necessary so that people can install different libraries versions in parallel
[01:05] <tsmithe> yes
[01:05] <tsmithe> also like i thought...
[01:05] <tsmithe> what if it's zero?
[01:05] <tsmithe> do i just do libfoo0?
[01:05] <azeem> yes
[01:06] <tsmithe> okey
[01:06] <tsmithe> thanks
[01:09] <tsmithe> and is the -dev version libfoo0-dev?
[01:09] <geser> usually it is only libfoo-dev
[01:10] <geser> in most cases you want to link against the latest version of libfoo
[01:15] <tsmithe> geser, okey
[01:15] <tsmithe> thanks
[01:19] <Jozo-> tsmithe: http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[01:19] <tsmithe> okeys
[08:05] <bddebian> Heya gang
[11:10] <ademan> with the phoenix repository builder?
[11:10] <ademan> oops
[12:04] <pianoboy3333> How do I apply a dsc and a .diff.gz to an .orig.tar.gz?
[12:04] <crimsun> dpkg-source -x foo.dsc
[12:04] <superm1> dpkg-source -x
[12:05] <pianoboy3333> thanks
[12:07] <davromaniak> Happy New Year for Europe (except UK) !!!!