[05:17] <mborzecki> morning
[05:25] <zyga> Hey :-)
[05:32] <mborzecki> zyga: hey hey
[06:09] <zyga> Hey mvo :-)
[06:09] <mvo> hey zyga
[06:09] <mvo> it looks like we have failures in the testsuite in fedora / centos right now
[06:09] <mvo> or is it just my PR?
[06:10] <zyga> My stuff was ok last night
[06:10] <zyga> I’m getting breakfast still
[06:18] <mborzecki> mvo: hey, more selinux crap?
[06:19] <mborzecki> btw. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1826460 is the same story as https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/selinux-warning-when-running-lxc/11100/
[06:19] <mborzecki> i seriously don't know what to think of it, oh and 2.39 breaks totally there
[06:20] <mborzecki> i reproduced the problem with disco cloud image and installed that weird kernel from the kernel-ppa
[06:20] <mvo> mborzecki: aha, is that the stacked LSM kernel?
[06:26] <mborzecki> mvo: i don't think so, the kernel seems to have AA disabled, and SELinux enabled and default
[06:28] <mborzecki> mvo: oh, and once you install the kernel, none of the selinux utils are pulled in
[06:33] <mvo> mborzecki: woah
[06:36] <zyga> Stacking?
[06:38] <mvo> zyga: there is this work to allow selinux and apparmor in parallel, I was wondering if its that kernel
[06:38] <zyga> mvo: disco has it
[06:39] <zyga> It landed at the same time as another lxd related bug with shiftfs
[06:43] <mborzecki> shitfs?
[06:43] <mborzecki> ah, that's for uid/gid on fs
[06:44] <mborzecki> anyways, i don't think it's this kernel
[07:01] <pstolowski> heyas
[07:03] <mborzecki> pstolowski: hey
[07:04] <mborzecki> left a note under https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/snapd/+bug/1826460/comments/3
[07:04] <zyga> hey Paweł :)
[07:05] <mborzecki> idk, maybe we could somehow guess the system is using a default policy, meaning, nothing probably works an then stop any attempt to use selinux
[07:07] <zyga> pstolowski: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6781 <- 2nd version of static attr fix
[07:07] <pstolowski> zyga: yes, i saw it, thank you, will get to it shortly
[07:07] <zyga> pstolowski: tha main difference is that the changes are made in reloadConnections, not in setup profiles, because this catches system key regeneration
[07:08] <zyga> thanks!
[07:11] <mborzecki> still don't get why someone who's not a kernel developer or test would install some kernel package from a random PPA
[07:28] <zyga> mborzecki: I know why
[07:28] <zyga> mborzecki: sergiusens does it because it makes his surface work
[07:28] <zyga> mborzecki: AFAIK people do it to get modern vega working on older releases
[07:28] <mborzecki> zyga: well, but sergiusens is more than capable of making it work
[07:28] <zyga> mborzecki: some people do it to follow vanilla kernel development
[07:29] <zyga> mborzecki: but not all people are sergiusens :)
[07:31] <mborzecki> zyga: also, if you provide a kernel package for ubuntu, one would expect that it's soemwhat tailored for the distro :P
[07:31] <zyga> mborzecki: there's an official vanila kernel ppa
[07:31] <zyga> mborzecki: not tailored at all
[07:31] <mborzecki> zyga: it's like someone provided a kernel package from COPR for fedora, which defaults to AppArmor, that'd be fun
[07:31] <zyga> but what do I know :)
[08:05]  * zyga could use a 2nd review for https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6758
[08:06] <zyga> promise not to push more today ;)
[08:12]  * zyga does more reviews
[08:30] <pstolowski> zyga: reviewed static attrs PR
[08:37] <zyga> pstolowski: thank you!
[08:40] <Chipaca> mvo: morning sir. Working with sergiusens for a bit yesterday we were both surprised that #6532, which landed in master on 7/3, wasn't in 2.38 which was cut 21/3. My memory of (and, granted, attention to) the release is very poor, so I was hoping you'd know why this was this way
[08:41] <Chipaca> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6743 could use a second review if anybody is hankerin' to do one
[08:42] <mvo> Chipaca: uh, that sounds fishy!
[08:44] <mvo> Chipaca: aha, I see now. 2.38 was actually branched earlier, 2019-03-05 and at this point we only cherry-picked things targeted for 2.38 :/
[08:45] <Chipaca> mvo: i suspected something like that
[08:45] <Chipaca> mvo: but didn't have dates :-)
[08:45] <Chipaca> a shame, but ok
[08:45] <Chipaca> (sergio was all ready to use that feature :) )
[08:47] <mvo> Chipaca: it wil be in 2.39 which is not that far away
[08:47] <Chipaca> yep
[08:55]  * pstolowski running quick errand, afk for a while
[08:58] <zyga> heh
[08:58] <zyga> Chipaca: I wanted to review https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6743 but I noticed I already did
[08:58]  * Chipaca hugs zyga
[08:58] <Chipaca> zyga: thank you
[09:02] <zyga> Chipaca: wanna do a quick 2nd +1 for https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6758 ?
[09:02] <zyga> a part of an ongoing refactoring
[09:12] <Chipaca> zyga: where is NewUserProfileUpdateContext used for, that it's public?
[09:13] <zyga> it's used from main.go
[09:13]  * zyga checks
[09:14] <zyga> probably in subsequent patches
[09:14] <zyga> Chipaca: in 2 patches from this one: https://github.com/zyga/snapd/commit/1ffaae4478d680566b78ead86f3911c5784893ea
[09:14] <zyga> Chipaca: so not yet, but soon :)
[09:15] <zyga> Chipaca: https://github.com/zyga/snapd/commits/feature/user-mount-ns-20.9-split-rebased -
[09:15] <Chipaca> zyga: that's in the same package, isn't it?
[09:15] <zyga> yes
[09:16] <zyga> but we may need to put it into a library soon-ish so I'm slowly building towards that
[09:16] <zyga> (for a new binary)
[09:16] <zyga> snap-update-ns and snap-bootstrap-ns
[09:16] <zyga> would share most of the code but would behave differently and bootstrap would do some new things too
[09:17] <zyga> (bootstrap would also not need the horrid C bootstrap logic)
[09:17] <zyga> (as in bootstrap.c, the name overlap is unfortunate)
[09:21] <Chipaca> zyga: reviewed, mostly. Almost a +1.
[09:21] <zyga> reading
[09:23] <zyga> Chipaca: replied
[09:25] <zyga> if it seems I'm relucant to change it it's partially true and because of the changes stacked on top; I can rework locking if you feel strongly about it but even there I would prefer to append a patch to this series (that was tested and "polished" rather than rebase it, mostly to avoid the extra cost
[09:28] <pstolowski> re
[09:29] <zyga> pstolowski: hey
[09:29] <zyga> question to you sir:
[09:29] <zyga> is this what you expected? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/CoMWt6SB/
[09:29] <zyga> I would have to add the pair of unrelated snaps for this test to preserve that connection
[09:31] <Chipaca> zyga: yes I think the lock/unlock pair would be better, but also yes no problem for it to be done further down the series
[09:31] <pstolowski> zyga: yes, that's what i expected. do you need to add those snaps because something is unhappy about them missing?
[09:31] <zyga> Chipaca: in that model, the unlock state would be simply stored in the context, right?
[09:31] <Chipaca> zyga: yes
[09:31] <zyga> pstolowski: not unhappy, as the comment states, they are removed on manager startup
[09:31] <zyga> pstolowski: note that the order of manager startup vs adding snaps is essential
[09:32] <Chipaca> zyga: or you could just embed the locker
[09:34] <pstolowski> zyga: you could add them to the state after instantiating the manager and before carrying on with the test, no?
[09:35] <zyga> No
[09:36] <zyga> Because manager removes unused connections on startup
[09:36] <zyga> I would have to add the unrelated snaps before starting the manager
[09:37] <zyga> I can do that, just asking if that is what you expected
[09:37] <pstolowski> zyga: yes, but that happens in Manager - initialize, when you instantiate the manager in the test. you can alter the state afterwards?
[09:39] <pstolowski> zyga: ah i see
[09:39] <pstolowski> zyga: perhaps the second test is better to do this
[09:39] <pstolowski> zyga: the one that creates a task for setup-profiles
[09:39] <zyga> Mhm
[09:40] <pstolowski> zyga: sorry, you're right about the one i commented on
[09:44] <pstolowski> zyga: btw https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6751 is pending some rework right?
[09:44] <zyga> pstolowski: looking
[09:44] <zyga> pstolowski: well, it needs tests
[09:44] <zyga> pstolowski: but I think the place is right
[09:45] <pstolowski> ok
[09:47] <mborzecki> pstolowski: some quick fixes for the policy https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6783 that were caught in 6778
[09:53] <zyga> mborzecki: man, selinux is comple
[09:53] <zyga> complex*
[09:56] <mborzecki> zyga: or just different conceptually
[09:57] <Chipaca> zyga: 𝕌𝕟𝕕𝕖𝕣𝕤𝕥𝕒𝕥𝕖𝕞𝕖𝕟𝕥 𝔸𝕝𝕖𝕣𝕥
[09:58]  * mvo hugs zyga for "the computer says NO"
[10:03] <zyga> lol :)
[10:12] <zyga> pstolowski: updated https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6781
[10:15] <zyga> the new thing is https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6781/commits/dd739571c24e659d0449c0c0ca6314719f301777
[10:19]  * Chipaca goes out for a bit
[10:22] <zyga> mvo: I think you should review https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6781
[10:35] <mvo> zyga: full of meetings today but will do
[10:35] <mvo> zyga: once I get the chance
[10:37] <pstolowski> zyga: ty, will look in a bit
[10:48] <zyga> Chipaca: something like this? https://github.com/zyga/snapd/commit/328b4b471e22609d60b4b4e430a4aa648963c714
[10:48] <zyga> mvo: thank you!
[10:50] <zyga> mvo: about https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6756 - should I rework it to return an error or leave as-is?
[10:57] <zyga> Chipaca: https://bet365techblog.com/open-sourcing-jingo-a-faster-json-encoder-for-go <- maybe worth prototyping a switch to see what we'd save?
[11:16]  * zyga quick lunch
[11:38] <zyga> my body demands coffee
[11:39] <zyga> my mind demands coffee
[11:39] <zyga> I shall make coffee
[11:39] <zyga> though going outside for a bike ride seems lovely too, it's so warm already
[11:39] <zyga> pstolowski, mborzecki: I have 28C outside, you?
[11:39] <mborzecki> 28-29
[11:40] <pstolowski> zyga: 27 outside. 28 inside.. /o\
[11:43] <zyga> desktop-portal-filechooser fails
[11:43] <zyga> la la la
[11:47] <mborzecki> out to drop the kids off at school for some extra classes, back in 30
[11:47] <jdstrand> mborzecki: hey, can you look at https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6780#discussion_r278914233
[11:47] <jdstrand> mborzecki: in 30 :)
[11:57] <zyga> jdstrand: I pushed some things to https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6714
[11:58] <zyga> hey :)
[11:58] <zyga> jdstrand: (also replied to all the comments there)
[11:59] <zyga> jdstrand: the /tmp thing has left one question in my mind
[11:59] <zyga> jdstrand: on regular systems with classic packages /tmp is not private
[12:00] <zyga> jdstrand: so if an app invoked by another user on this system drops a file that just happens to be readable by my user, well, tough luck, it'd better not contain secrets
[12:00] <jdstrand> that's just normal dac
[12:01] <zyga> jdstrand: the question is: why is snap /tmp different? could we just make /tmp/snap.$SNAP_NAME/ with 01777
[12:01] <jdstrand> the /tmp should still be 1777 root:root
[12:01] <zyga> jdstrand: note, in my question I eliminate the presence of intermediate root:root 0700 base directory
[12:02] <jdstrand> it doesn't really need to be different. iirc, you are doing 0700 at that point only to bind mount on it and then later chmod 1777
[12:02] <zyga> hmmm, we don't bind mount on it AFAIK
[12:02] <zyga> or perhaps we do but that's something that we could change
[12:03] <jdstrand> you are otherwise it wouldn't be known as /tmp in the mount namesapce... ?
[12:03] <zyga> that is, we could mkdir 01777 and then bind mount that over /tmp (so not over /tmp/$RANDOM/tmp but over constructed-snap-rootfs/tmp
[12:03] <zyga> yeah, but we construct the root filesystem in a different way now (on the side) and the very old code that manages /tmp could be adapted to that style too
[12:04] <zyga> we could even mount a tmpfs there and call it a day (no visibility from initial mount namespace) but I think that was ruled out because of space constraints
[12:04] <jdstrand> I'm not opposed to that changing. the main thing is, the result needs to be root:root 1777 and the getting there needs to be race-free
[12:04] <zyga> jdstrand: can you expand on the race-free aspect?
[12:04] <jdstrand> zyga: I don't think we want to mount a tmpfs there
[12:05] <zyga> jdstrand: (agreed on tmpfs)
[12:05] <jdstrand> zyga: we are actively not doing that because a tmpfs can take up to 50% of ram and those cause low memory
[12:05] <jdstrand> thus*
[12:06] <jdstrand> zyga: race free> yeah, however we get there, there can't be a possibility of an unprivileged user (or a snap at all) to to symlink attacks, etc
[12:06] <zyga> mhm
[12:07] <zyga> we protect against some of the attacks on mount with our special mount code in snap-update-ns but we don't have a C equivalent AFAIK
[12:08] <zyga> jdstrand: as far as I'm aware only mount is really susceptible to a race attack, out of the primitives we use
[12:08] <mborzecki> re
[12:08] <zyga> jdstrand: I'm trying to find a solution that would be devoid of edge cases, correct, not insecure (see what I did there :), and usable for people
[12:08] <jdstrand> zyga: I think you are not taking my point as intended
[12:09] <jdstrand> zyga: we have a property now where we are race free. with the rename to a fixed dir or the rewrite you are sugggesting, we want the same property
[12:10] <zyga> jdstrand: no disagreement there
[12:13]  * jdstrand takes deep breath
[12:14] <jdstrand> why is sid failing to build all of a sudden: https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/k9nYZkrSgP/
[12:15] <zyga> jdstrand: where are you seeing this?
[12:15] <zyga> in the sbuild test?
[12:15] <jdstrand> I can't get out from under constant problems with this PR... /o\
[12:16] <jdstrand> zyga: I saw it didn't build here: https://travis-ci.org/snapcore/snapd/jobs/524707744
[12:16] <zyga> jdstrand: hey do you remember user mounts? :D
[12:16]  * zyga looks
[12:16] <jdstrand> zyga: it did not have great logs, so I tried in a local qemu
[12:16] <zyga> jdstrand: it's going to be all right, it's just one of those moments where you improve things for many people, not just snap users, by fixing bugs blocking your work
[12:16] <jdstrand> use -debug with spread and then rewound and did:
[12:17] <jdstrand> cd /home/gopath/src/github.com/snapcore/snapd
[12:17] <jdstrand> cd _build && go install -gcflags=all=\"-trimpath=/home/gopath/src/github.com/snapcore/snapd/_build/src\" -asmflags=all=\"...
[12:17] <jdstrand> as shown by the -debug output
[12:17] <jdstrand> zyga: yes, that's true. it is just been nuts
[12:17] <jdstrand> thanks
[12:19] <jdstrand> in this case, I don't know what bolt is. I do know what libseccomp-golang is, and I'm puzzled why sid is not working with the distro golang-seccomp
[12:19]  * jdstrand shakes fist
[12:19] <jdstrand> it seems to not be installed. why?
[12:19] <zyga> how we ignore errors in some places? https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/4jf6qJKw/

[12:19]  * jdstrand looks
[12:20] <zyga> jdstrand: I'm trying to make sense of that but I see more magic
[12:20]  * jdstrand is puzzled. these packages are in the build-depends
[12:21] <zyga> src/github.com/snapcore/snapd/cmd/snap-seccomp/main.go:655:10: undefined: seccomp.ActLog <- this seems to say that golang-seccomp is older?
[12:21] <zyga> jdstrand: build-depends vs vendorized
[12:22] <jdstrand> I'm wrong, it is installed
[12:22] <jdstrand> zyga: ah. ok. yes
[12:23] <zyga> package from debian took priority?
[12:23] <jdstrand> zyga: man I skipped right over that
[12:23] <jdstrand> ok, I see what to do
[12:24] <jdstrand> mborzecki: do you think if I just added the 4th field to system-key it wouldn't be a big deal?
[12:24] <zyga> jdstrand: but does that mean we won't be able to build de-vendorized in sid?
[12:24] <zyga> jdstrand: the sbuild test should show that btw, if that breaks next we need to update golang-seccomp in debian
[12:24] <jdstrand> zyga: I can make it work. it worked before
[12:24] <zyga> jdstrand: system key is flexible, just check how costly it is to compute because snap run does it
[12:24] <jdstrand> I made a small changge to tyhicks initial patch which apparently broke it
[12:25] <jdstrand> zyga: adding the 4th field couldn't be cheaper. it is that string match
[12:25] <mvo> zyga: sorry for the delay - 6756 is afaict no longer needed, the change that landed recently checks for nil and returns an error now
[12:26] <zyga> mvo: oh, where was that?
[12:26] <zyga> mvo: please comment in the PR and feel free to close it
[12:26] <mvo> zyga: thanks, will do
[12:26] <jdstrand> mborzecki: nm, I'm going for it
[12:27] <mborzecki> jdstrand: i wouldn't mind, it's an implementation aspect, not user facing, but nothing i would block on
[12:27] <zyga> jdstrand: I will be much happer once, one day, I will replace all of snap-seccomp with pure go code
[12:27] <mborzecki> jdstrand: though once it's collected & parsed in backend init, you could do whatever later on in the code, no need to call snap-seccomp once again
[12:27] <mborzecki> (unless for compilation obviously)(
[12:27] <zyga> jdstrand: and can remove that from system key for that extra oomph speed for snap startup :)
[12:28] <zyga> mborzecki: note that snap-run does this every time AFIAK
[12:28] <mborzecki> zyga: yes, it also picks up build ids and so on
[12:29] <zyga> so-many-reviews
[12:29] <jdstrand> zyga: well, I think you cannot do that without removing libseccomp cause libseccomp is C code and CGO_ENABLED=0, but I don't want to go there
[12:29] <zyga> mborzecki: does it mean snap-run will run snap-seccomp with some query argument each time on every run?
[12:29] <zyga> jdstrand: yes, that's what I meant
[12:29] <zyga> but don't worry, I'm sure we will slowly get there, with enough checks to be confident we are producing the same bpf as before
[12:30] <mborzecki> zyga: it's part of system-key, so yes
[12:30] <zyga> mborzecki: would be good to time that
[12:31] <zyga> (on a pi for example)
[12:32] <jdstrand> zyga: I can't say how worried I am about that any more than I have. we should *not* reimplement libseccomp. the world has standardized on it and it is tricky code. we will trade one set of problems that everyone faces and has a desire to fix for another that only you could fix and no one else cares
[12:32] <mborzecki> zyga: afaik we call apparmor_parser too, woulnd't expect snap-seccomp to be slower than that
[12:33] <jdstrand> but I don't have time to debate this
[12:34] <Chipaca> showoffs
[12:34] <Chipaca> oops, wrong place
[12:34] <mborzecki> offshows :)
[12:34] <Chipaca> that was a comment about you and zyga having ~28C
[12:35] <Chipaca> didn't notice i was scrolled way up
[12:35] <zyga> haha
[12:35] <Chipaca> zyga: looking at your locking code now
[12:35] <zyga> Chipaca: I pushed a 2nd branch that fixes a typo in the branch name but it's otherwise identical
[12:36] <Chipaca> zyga: calling Unlock when it's not locked would usually be a panic()
[12:36] <zyga> Chipaca: +1, easy change
[12:36] <Chipaca> zyga: either implicit or explicit I don't mind :-)
[12:37] <mborzecki> hmm a bunch of snaps mounted locally, somehow udisks insists on showing 2 of them as normal disks, wtf?
[12:37] <zyga> mborzecki: that's a local patch to udisks or you lost your mtab state
[12:38] <Chipaca> mborzecki: that seems to happen when something is using and old core
[12:38] <jdstrand> mborzecki: jdstrand: though once it's collected & parsed in backend init, you could do whatever later on in the code, no need to call snap-seccomp once again
[12:38] <mborzecki> Chipaca: yes, that would be it
[12:39] <jdstrand> mborzecki: I recall looking at that and had some trouble. what are you suggesting?
[12:39] <jdstrand> mborzecki: reading it off the disk?
[12:39] <Chipaca> my typo-ing rate today is quite high
[12:39] <Chipaca> seem to be typing phonetically a lot
[12:39] <mborzecki> jdstrand: iirc version info is kept in seccomp backend struct
[12:39] <jdstrand> mborzecki: (this was the bit where I said 'there were multiple ways of doing this' in my PR
[12:40] <jdstrand> mborzecki: that isn't available way out in overlord/snapstate
[12:41] <jdstrand> mborzecki: I was hoping to extract it from somewhere via interfaces/system_key.go but resorted to a callout to snap-seccomp
[12:42] <Chipaca> augh. There's a Jesse Lenton somewhere in Winnipeg that's receiving some documents via a secure online thing, but they've given my email for it … so if anybody wants to find out some dirt about some employees of some random corp in canada, hit me up
[12:43] <jdstrand> mborzecki: afaict, snapd doesn't maintain system-key in memory. it has it on disk and at strategic times, recalculates and compares to waht is on disk
[12:43] <mborzecki> jdstrand: hm that's probably easier, the cache info is well hidden under interfaces :/
[12:43] <jdstrand> yeah
[12:43] <jdstrand> mborzecki: but I could read it from disk
[12:44] <jdstrand> mborzecki: I was somewhat hesitant of that though
[12:44] <jdstrand> I mean, it *should* be ok
[12:44] <mborzecki> jdstrand: imo calling the compiler again sounds reasonable
[12:45] <jdstrand> mborzecki: ok, that is where I landed. I'll add the fourth field then I just have the one callout
[12:45] <mborzecki> jdstrand: unless, there would be like an instance of seccomp.Compiler() set up to use snap-seccomp kept somewhere
[12:46] <mborzecki> jdstrand: hm otoh, that microoptimization is probably not worth it, so a second call to snap-seccomp sounds ok to me
[12:47] <jdstrand> mborzecki: again, where I landed with 'picked something that made sense to me' :)
[12:47] <jdstrand> mborzecki: thank you for discussing this here
[12:55]  * Chipaca wanders off to make tea
[13:33] <zyga> Chipaca: thanks for sharing that error talk!
[13:33] <zyga> I'm very interested in error handling in both Go and C
[13:33] <Chipaca> zyga: there's also a very good one about constants I think you'd enjoy
[13:34] <Chipaca> zyga: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN_lm6QqHcw
[13:34] <zyga> Chipaca: opened in another tab
[13:35] <zyga> https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6785 is green
[13:35]  * zyga uses social engineering tricks to get reviews
[13:36]  * Chipaca hires a russian bot farm to -1 zyga's PRs and thwart his social engineering campaign
[13:36]  * Chipaca buys some sweets with the change
[13:36] <zyga> Chipaca: we could move code review to twitter and facebook :D
[13:37] <zyga> Chipaca: so can we start to stop using fmt.Erorrf :)
[13:37] <Chipaca> zyga: well we shouldn't :-)
[13:37] <Chipaca> because they hacked fmt.Errorf :-D
[13:37] <Chipaca> (continue the talk)
[13:37] <zyga> drat, that's like we watch a movie together but you know the ending :D
[13:37]  * zyga watches
[13:37] <Chipaca> as long as it's fmt.Errorf("yadda yadda %v", err), or %s err, it'll DTRT
[13:38] <zyga> oh
[13:38] <zyga> tricky
[13:38] <zyga> it groks the argument is the wrapped error?
[13:38] <Chipaca> zyga: also the error crawls up its butt and explodes it from the inside
[13:38] <zyga> and stores it as well?
[13:38] <Chipaca> something like that? i haven't tried it :-)
[13:39] <zyga> juju/errors :)
[13:39] <zyga> nice
[13:39] <zyga> Chipaca: so will golang 2.0 switch to spaces and ban tabs?
[13:39] <zyga> or will it be something we can reasonably be on in the next 12 months after it ships?
[13:40] <Chipaca> all those big 2.0 features are getting worked into 1.x
[13:40] <Chipaca> that was one of the things that came out of the 2.0 discussions
[13:40] <zyga> so what will 2.0 bring?
[13:40] <zyga> that's not in 1.x?
[13:41] <zyga> interesting
[13:41] <Chipaca> zyga: actual incompatible things left over?
[13:41] <zyga> using interfaces is so natural in go
[13:41] <Chipaca> zyga: basically they don't want to be python
[13:41] <zyga> that's a neat idea
[13:42] <zyga> Chipaca: a bit of what I'm hearing starts to feel like objc
[13:43] <Chipaca> zyga: i haven't used objc in anger, so i don't have a strong opinion of it either way
[13:43] <Chipaca> zyga: but i also don't know what you mean :-)
[13:43] <zyga> Chipaca: the highly dynamic aspect
[13:44] <Chipaca> i think the only time i've used objc it was actually c with some weird bits (rather like how i've used c++)
[13:45] <zyga> the errors.As thing is odd, why on earth is it returning a boolean?
[13:47] <mborzecki> zyga: sounds like you really want that pkg/errors package :)
[13:47] <zyga> mborzecki: not sure yet
[13:47] <zyga> I see their point about how those are weak
[13:49] <Chipaca> zyga: errors.Is returns a boolean
[13:50] <zyga> Chipaca: yes, but As ?
[13:50] <zyga> Chipaca: I was expecting some form of casting but perhaps I misunderstood that
[13:51] <Chipaca> https://tip.golang.org/pkg/errors/#As
[13:51] <Chipaca> zyga: so you tell it the type by passing it a thing, so it sets that thing to the matching one and tells you that it succeeded via the bool
[13:51] <zyga> ah, so it writes to the target
[13:52] <zyga> I thought it just uses that for type information
[13:52] <zyga> that makes sense now
[13:52] <Chipaca> ye
[13:52] <zyga> though ugly because golang and generics but that's all right
[13:56] <Chipaca> zyga: (?i) makes the (containing sub)regexp case-insensitive from there to end or (?-i)
[13:57] <zyga> yeah
[13:57] <zyga> I read the replies from Maciej
[13:57] <zyga> mborzecki: +1
[13:57] <Chipaca> zyga: you can also do (?i:regexp) and have that subregexp be case-insensitive
[13:57]  * zyga liked the RE_I flag or whatever that was called in other systems
[13:58] <Chipaca> zyga: other systems also support these flags
[13:58] <Chipaca> i mean, this is taken from perl regexp syntax
[13:58] <Chipaca> perl, python, and pcre all also support making it case insensitive outside of the regexp though
[13:58] <Chipaca> and yes that is clearer, to me
[13:59] <Chipaca> but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ go's purportedly-perl-compatible regexps (which aren't) have that nice predictable non-pathological time characteristics, so that's nice instead
[13:59] <Chipaca> btw perl's regexp support for unicode is _still_ unmatched
[14:02]  * Chipaca looks into outsourcing reviews
[14:09] <zyga> Chipaca: those russian trolls, do they do reviews too? :)
[14:10] <Chipaca> zyga: i'm sure they do
[14:10] <zyga> CHA-CHING!
[14:10] <cachio> mvo, could you please include this pr #6694 to next 2.39
[14:11] <cachio> mvo, you merge all the PRs with milestone 2.39 right?
[14:13] <cachio> mvo, otherwise I can provide you a list of PRs which I need on 2.39
[14:15] <zyga> Chipaca: watched both now
[14:22] <cachio> jamesh, hi
[14:24] <cachio> jamesh, I am testing snapd on 19.04 and 1 test is failing https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/YN44WYGCM5/
[14:25] <cachio> doing xdg-open snap://package
[14:25] <cachio> jamesh, I was researching and found that it fails when the package gnome-settings-daemon is preinstalled
[14:26] <zyga> mvo: can we merge https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6717
[14:27] <cachio> jamesh, were you aware of this problem?
[14:38] <Chipaca> hmmmmm
[14:38] <mvo> zyga: looking
[14:38] <mvo> zyga: scopedTracker is a strange name
[14:38] <zyga> mvo: perdronis changed it
[14:38] <Chipaca> mvo: do you know why we allow installing ubuntu-core still?
[14:38] <mvo> zyga: yeah
[14:38] <zyga> mvo: so I guess it is his informal +1
[14:38] <mvo> Chipaca: wuuut? we do?
[14:38] <zyga> mvo: wrt to name
[14:39] <mvo> zyga: yeah
[14:39] <zyga> (insert chipaca emoji)
[14:39] <mvo> zyga: hahaha
[14:39] <zyga> I don't care, it's important to fix the bug more than to have a fun name
[14:39] <mvo> zyga: I'm with you on that
[14:39] <Chipaca> mvo: yes we do. Needs to be part of a multi-snap install; we block it for single snaps
[14:40] <zyga> mvo: shall I merge it then?
[14:41] <mvo> zyga: yes, looks sane
[14:41] <Chipaca> zyga: there is as yet no chipaca emoji. But we've got a mate emoji, so the chipaca can't be far behind!
[14:41] <mvo> Chipaca: aha, I see
[14:41] <Chipaca> mvo: i'll fix
[14:41] <zyga> mvo: merging, thanks!
[14:44] <mvo> Chipaca: thank you
[14:57] <Chipaca> mvo: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6786 fwiw
[15:06] <mvo> thanks Chipaca
[15:06] <zyga> Chipaca: s/also//
[15:07] <zyga> Chipaca: +1 though a spread test would be nice
[15:07] <Chipaca> zyga: why no also?
[15:07] <zyga> it reads oddly, not sure ;)
[15:07] <zyga> saying
[15:07] <Chipaca> ah ok
[15:07] <zyga> saying "daemon: verify snap instructions for multi-snap requests" reads better
[15:07] <Chipaca> boom
[15:08] <zyga> thanks!
[15:08] <Chipaca> i also removed the extra space your regexp left behind
[15:09] <zyga> darn, I was thinking about that
[15:09] <zyga> :D
[15:09] <zyga> ok
[15:09] <zyga> last thing of the day: spread test for the mount bug
[15:35] <Odd_Bloke> jdstrand: I'd love your thoughts on https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/potential-additions-to-account-control-interface/11123/1
[15:37] <Chipaca> Odd_Bloke: is the snap you're building only for use on ubuntu core?
[15:39] <Odd_Bloke> Chipaca: At the moment, I'm just doing exploratory work to see what would be required to strictly confine cloud-init; this was one of the things that I found I had to add a `system-files` interface for, despite us having an interface that sounds like it would include them.
[15:40] <Chipaca> Odd_Bloke: account-control is all about core tho
[15:40] <Odd_Bloke> There is nothing in the docs that indicates that to be the case, AFAICT?
[15:41] <Chipaca> the docs might need updating; it's an old interface
[15:41] <Chipaca> # Only allow modifying the non-system extrausers database
[15:41] <Chipaca> ^ that's from the code
[15:41] <Odd_Bloke> The docs say "account-control allows managing non-system user accounts."
[15:41] <Chipaca> yes i can read
[15:41] <Chipaca> sigh
[15:41] <Chipaca> Odd_Bloke: sorry, not sure where that came from
[15:42] <Chipaca> Odd_Bloke: yes the docs might need updating, if I've got this right
[15:42] <Chipaca> i'm not an expert on this bit of the code, jdstrand was the right person to ask
[15:42] <Chipaca> but, from what's in the code, this will only work in core
[15:45] <jdstrand> I responded
[15:46] <Odd_Bloke> Thanks!
[15:47]  * cachio lunch
[15:49] <jdstrand> ok, rewrote the actlog PR: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6787
[15:49] <jdstrand> it was a more involved pr, but cleaner in the end, so I thing that is a good thing
[15:55] <Chipaca> zyga: hostname-control might need a similar warning?
[15:55] <Chipaca> zyga: OTOH if they're only for core, why have them in classic at all?
[15:55] <zyga> Chipaca: TIF
[15:55] <Chipaca> !
[15:55]  * Chipaca goes
[15:56] <Odd_Bloke> I think hostname-control is useful on classic?
[15:56] <Odd_Bloke> It gives write access to /etc/hostname and exec on hostnamectl.
[15:58] <jdstrand> Odd_Bloke: sure. it has no restrictions like that (just rememeber to snap connect it)
[15:58] <jdstrand> (it is manually connected by default, which can be adjusted with a snap declaration)
[15:59] <Odd_Bloke> I also had to add a few system-files rules to allow me to manage networking from cloud-init (on classic); is network-control expected to be a core-only thing, or is that worth opening up a topic for?
[16:03] <jdstrand> Odd_Bloke: it is for anyone. please open a topic
[16:03] <Odd_Bloke> Will do.
[16:03] <jdstrand> Odd_Bloke: I'll be doing some profile bug fixes for 2.39 and will add that to the list
[16:06] <Odd_Bloke> Oh, actually, I hadn't seen network-setup-control until I typed in my topic title, let me see if that makes a difference.
[16:07] <Odd_Bloke> OK, that's simple enough to just read.
[16:23] <zyga> jdstrand: does https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/snapping-a-font/11122/2?u=zyga sound sensibly?
[16:27] <jdstrand> zyga: it would help. with fonts it probably isn't bad. with arbitrary content like images, sounds, movies it would be rather heavyweight
[16:33] <Odd_Bloke> jdstrand: https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/network-control-network-setup-control-doesnt-enable-running-netplan-generate-on-classic/11126
[16:36] <zyga> jdstrand: fonts contain full VMs nowadays, you know?
[16:37] <Odd_Bloke> ISTR there were font cache versioning problems recently, too?
[16:37] <Odd_Bloke> That might make fonts a little trickier?
[16:37] <Odd_Bloke> (I recall none of the details.)
[16:37] <zyga> Odd_Bloke: yes, at runtime, but not for distributing the font by itself I think
[16:37] <zyga> but yeah
[16:37] <zyga> it compounds the problem
[16:38] <Chipaca> zyga: wrt fonts etc, couldn't we sanity-check them server-side?
[16:38] <zyga> Chipaca: that's an interesting idea, perhaps we could
[16:39] <zyga> Chipaca: but it would be tricky for one reason
[16:39] <zyga> Chipaca: when you find that you were not checking for something that is evil and you said it was fine before you have to revoke that decision
[16:39] <zyga> Chipaca: in a filter approach you can provide a refresh to the filter package and re-generate content
[16:39] <Chipaca> zyga: yeah
[16:39] <zyga> Chipaca: thereby neutering the invalid blob
[16:40] <zyga> Chipaca: I think it's all a scale of paranoia
[16:40] <zyga> one could say that some type of content is plausibly ok to ship without a filter
[16:40] <Chipaca> CM fonts
[16:40] <Chipaca> \o/
[16:40] <zyga> Chipaca: some things can be chameleons and can be interpreted as many things at once
[16:40] <zyga> it's complex but for some stuff I'd love to have it
[16:40] <zyga> wallpapers and fonts are a good candidate
[16:40] <Chipaca> fonts should be shipped only as metafont instructions, launchpad builds it into a snap that's gtg
[16:47] <zyga> jdstrand: https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6787#pullrequestreview-231254474
[16:48] <Chipaca> i now have two (2! which is also 2) PRs that are green and just need another +1 to land
[16:49]  * Chipaca also has more prs than just those, but these two are Special
[16:49]  * Chipaca puts the PRs in the short bus
[16:54] <zyga> Chipaca: wanna read https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6785 ?
[16:54] <zyga> I could bug mvo for +2 and then open the next chunk :)
[16:55] <zyga> (only about 5 left)
[16:55] <zyga> this is a +12 −13 PR so pretty painless
[16:55] <ijohnson> jdstrand: any chance you'll get a chance to review 6697 (about daemon-notify) soonish? if not that's fine I can workaround it but it would be better to know ahead of time if that workaround is likely to be necessary
[16:59] <Chipaca> zyga: why is 1000 the right thing instead of os.Getuid()
[16:59] <Chipaca> zyga: ?
[17:01] <jdstrand> ijohnson: the workaround is likely necessary. possibly next week
[17:14] <zyga> Chipaca: because the test uses 1000 a line above :)
[17:14] <zyga> it's a fixed value
[17:14] <zyga> Chipaca: read the 2nd commit plase
[17:14] <zyga> *please
[17:14] <zyga> Chipaca: sorry for the lag, I went upstairs to stretch and found pizza lefttovers :D
[17:15] <zyga> *leftovers
[17:16] <zyga> mvo: pretty please a 2nd review on https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6785
[17:16] <zyga> Chipaca: thank you!
[17:17] <zyga> Chipaca: for on this line https://github.com/snapcore/snapd/pull/6785/commits/0917f2460ae1d8dbe19823c32d79773add5addb1#diff-fca81d6060b39fa4cf7450a9d05bd004R384
[17:28]  * zyga EODs
[18:21] <ijohnson> jdstrand: ack thanks


[12:10] <carlos> salgado, oh, not sure, that's why I was confused with the rights being an admin, I was able to promote to others users to Admins on that team without being the owner, just an Admin
[12:10] <elmo> jordi: redirection to sindomino
[12:10] <jordi> elmo: both@canonical and @ubuntu?
[12:10] <jordi> elmo: ok
[12:10] <elmo> real mail server depends on account which depends on contract
[12:10] <elmo> + confirmation
[12:10] <elmo> jordi: yes
[12:10] <carlos> salgado, but I suppose it was because I was a member of the team and was not related with being an admin...
[12:10] <jordi> elmo: I see
[12:10] <jordi> elmo: I'll scan it tomorrow. Faxing it seems quite difficult here in August.
[12:11] <carlos> jordi, those problems are not related with Rosetta so my answers are a bit limited
[12:12] <jordi> carlos: ok
[12:12] <jordi> let's walk through this
[12:13] <jordi> xqf has a "MAIN" release series
[12:13] <jordi> which I guess was created automatically when the series thign was implemented
[12:13] <jordi> the template that was in rosetta before this, was it lost?
[12:14] <jordi> there were some ongoing translations there
[12:14] <carlos> jordi, all products on launchpad have a MAIN release series, that's kind of HEAD on CVS
[12:14] <jordi> carlos: right
[12:14] <carlos> jordi, the template you imported on December was moved to Ubuntu
[12:14] <carlos> jordi, we moved all potemplates that were not supported directly by upstream
[12:15] <jordi> what if I am upstream, kinda? :)
[12:15] <jordi> ok, so I should just import those from ubuntu?
[12:16] <carlos> jordi, I could move them back to the product (and you as a Rosetta expert)
[12:16] <carlos> jordi, as I don't think we got too many translations from Ubuntu
[12:16] <jordi> nod
[12:16] <jordi> want me to try to do it?
[12:17] <carlos> jordi, if you will take care to upload new .pot files when they are ready and get the updated .po files and send them to XQF cvs... yes
[12:17] <jordi> yeahg
[12:19] <lifeless> jordi - xqf's main was added during the import sprint I think
[12:19] <lifeless> you probably cannot edit it unles you are the xqf owner, or on the xqf team
[12:25] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/xqf/+pots/xqf/+admin
[12:25] <carlos> jordi, change it from there
[12:26] <carlos> jordi, you need to leave empty hte sourcepackagename and distrorelease empty and select the productseries where it should be moved to
[12:26] <carlos> jordi, also, change the owner to you as the maintainer of that POTemplate
[12:30] <jordi> carlos: no perms to access that
[12:30] <carlos> hmm
[12:31] <carlos> ok, I was not sure, but that confirms that Mark asked that only admin can do that action
[12:31] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[r=bjornt]  generate the bugtask search results table through a macro, and use that macro in both the regular bug listing and the assigned bugs page (as a second-callsite-test). Does some ZCML cleanups, too. Enjoy (patch-2230<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[12:33] <carlos> jordi, and I cannot do it because the change from release to series...
[12:33] <carlos> jordi, remind me it next week
[12:33] <carlos> I need to fix the code and it should be moved into production so will take a week or so
[12:33] <jordi> ok
[12:37] <carlos> jordi, please, file a bug so I don't forget it :-)
[12:37] <carlos> jordi, you should say thank you because your karma gets higher with all those bug reports :-)
[12:39] <jordi> carlos: that I have no access to that page?
[12:41] <carlos> jordi, no, that xqf should be moved back to the product
[12:41] <carlos> jordi, that page is only for admins, it's my fault, I forgot it
[12:41] <carlos> jordi, admins == launchpad admins
[12:42] <jordi> oops
[12:42] <jordi> too late.
[12:46] <jordi> carlos: #1675
[01:00] <carlos> jordi, thanks
[01:01] <jordi> #1675 is to close I guess
[01:02] <carlos> jordi, I did it already
[01:02] <jordi> k
[01:22] <carlos> night
[01:53] <mpt> slackers
[01:53] <jordi> yeah
[01:53] <jordi> it's quite late here
[01:53] <jordi> and here I am, fixing Debian
[01:55] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[rs=bjornt,bradb]  make the latest bugs portlet available for distributions and distroreleases, and wire it all together. Nukes the remnant of the *anorak* view. Crocodiles be us. (patch-2231<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:56] <mpt> have fun :-)
[02:25] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[r=kiko]  main template tweaks for accessibility (patch-2232<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:29] <WaterSevenUb> hi
[11:32] <WaterSevenUb> can you explain me why for example in French templates (Breezy) there is a "gnome-app-install" and there is none in Portuguese?
[11:32] <WaterSevenUb> thx
[12:03] <_Raptor_> try #ubuntu
[01:15] <lifeless> WaterSevenUb: it just means noone is translating gnome-app-install into Portuguese yet - if you want to do that that would be cool
[01:16] <WaterSevenUb> yes, I want to do that... Who should I contact or what should I do?
[01:18] <lifeless> I'm not 100% sure let me try dsomething
[01:19] <lifeless> WaterSevenUb: what page are you looking at for gnome-app-install ?
[01:20] <WaterSevenUb> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/fr
[01:20] <WaterSevenUb> here exists.....
[01:21] <lifeless> wa	ah, so ..
[01:21] <WaterSevenUb> here doesn't https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/pt
[01:21] <WaterSevenUb> maybe templates are not all imported yet?
[01:21] <lifeless> hang one second
[01:24] <lifeless> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/gnome-app-install/+translate
[01:24] <lifeless> thats the translation home page for that package source in breezy
[01:24] <lifeless> theres a link there on the side portal that takes you to .../+translations
[01:24] <lifeless> on that page you should see pt if its in your preferred language list
[01:24] <lifeless> and be able to start translating it immediately
[01:25] <WaterSevenUb> yes! Thanks !
[01:28] <WaterSevenUb> hhhmm... I was looking for the "Add/remove Programs" entry but is not inside this template......
[01:28] <WaterSevenUb> it is not correctly translated to Portuguese and I was trying to correct that.
[01:28] <lifeless> ah
[01:28] <WaterSevenUb> (anyway... I will translate this)
[01:28] <lifeless> probably its not one of the translated strings, you'll need to look in the source and make a patch to get it translatedable first.
[01:29] <lifeless> you can grab the source using baz -<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:31] <lifeless> the reason that gnome-app-install  wasn't shown in the list at https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang is because that page only shows the partly or fully translated programs. programs that are not yet translated into that language dont shjow up
[01:31] <lifeless> this is arguably a bug, and I'm filing a bug report fo r you now
[01:31] <WaterSevenUb> (aaaah! now makes sense)
[01:31] <WaterSevenUb> now... to make the patch... what are the steps? I have no idea...
[01:34] <lifeless> be back in a minute
[01:34] <lifeless> ELIFE
[01:36] <lifeless> WaterSevenUb: for the patch - I think your best bet is to hop over to #ubuntu-devel and say that you want to do a patch for this, and how would they perfer it be done
[01:36] <lifeless> or ubuntu-motu if you are new to this sort of thing, asn they are very good at tutoring
[01:38] <WaterSevenUb> :) great.
[01:42] <Nafallo> why can't my girlfriend save in Rosetta?
[01:42] <jordi> what is she getting?
[01:42] <lifeless> uhm
[01:42] <Nafallo> Application error. Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication.
[01:43] <Nafallo> on AboutUbuntu in hoary
[01:43] <lifeless> Nafallo: she should log in first
[01:43] <lifeless> Nafallo: what url is she on at the moment ?
[01:43] <jordi> hmm, has her session expired or something?
[01:43] <Nafallo> lifeless: she is, according to the top
[01:43] <Nafallo> jordi: is it a timeout on Rosetta? :-O
[01:43] <lifeless> Nafallo: fire up antoher browser window and log in there :)
[01:44] <lifeless> Nafallo: rosetta thinks she isn't logged in which is why you are seeing that message.
[01:44] <gothcat> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/hoary/+sources/ubuntu-docs/+pots/aboutubuntu/sv/+translate
[01:44] <Nafallo> lifeless: oki, thanx :-)
[01:46] <gothcat> lifeless: thanx
[01:46] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>po translation page location fixes, and new-style cve support [r=spiv,lifeless]  (patch-2233<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[01:46] <lifeless> gothcat: no probs
[01:47] <Nafallo> but still, why is it a timeout there? should be reset on a keystroke basis or something :-P
[01:48] <lifeless> WaterSevenUb: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1682
[01:48] <lifeless> cprov: morning dude
[01:50] <Nafallo> morning cprov :-)
[01:51] <cprov> lifeless: hey, have you already tested subkey signatures in prodution ?
[01:51] <lifeless> cprov: not tested yet, that reminds me :)
[01:51] <carlos> morning
[01:51] <Nafallo> morning carlos :-)
[01:51] <lifeless> carlos: WaterSevenUb in this channel reported this to me https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1682
[01:52] <cprov> Nafallo: thank you, for perform the needed tests for unicode in production. how is the life post-GPG ?
[01:53] <Nafallo> cprov: wonderful. but then, my girlfriend is stubborn and hates all of you for having timeouts and losing her translations ;-)
[01:54] <carlos> lifeless, ok, thanks. Will try to talk with Mark and mpt about it
[01:54] <Nafallo> I'm working on turning that hate to love though ;-)
[01:56] <cprov> Nafallo: quick kick on carlos would make her feelings better, wouldn't it ?
[01:56] <cprov> carlos: ^^^
[01:56] <carlos> cprov, dude, timeouts are out of my control :-)
[01:57] <cprov> carlos: I see, just joking
[01:59] <lifeless> cprov: sqweet dude, it works
[02:00] <Nafallo> cprov: my girlfriend likes you.
[02:00] <gothcat> cprov: thanx for gpg
[02:00] <lifeless> carlos - can you moderate my rosetta-uesers post please ?
[02:00] <carlos> lifeless, sure
[02:02] <cprov> lifeless: finally ;)
[02:03] <cprov> Nafallo: ehe
[02:06] <WaterSevenUb> lifeless: thanks... not only gnome-app-install, many other... but I think the message is there
[02:06] <carlos> jordi, around?
[02:06] <jordi> yes
[02:07] <carlos> jordi, I just added as an admin for the rosetta-users mailing list
[02:07] <carlos> jordi, will send you the password by email so you can help us moderating that list too
[02:07] <jordi> carlos: I so feared thjat when I saw lifeless' request :)
[02:07] <jordi> carlos: sure, you know my gpg key I guess
[02:07] <carlos> jordi, ;-)
[02:08] <carlos> jordi, I think I have it signed, so yes :-)
[02:13] <cprov> bradb: what's wrong with bug 1613 ? "the duplicated immutable bugtasks" has been already identified by kiko some time ago ... do we have an ETA for this fix ?
[02:14] <bradb> cprov: next production rollout stub says the patch'll be rolled out
[02:15] <kiko> yeah
[02:15] <kiko> I approved and landed it a while back
[02:32] <cprov> bradb: kiko: thank you
[02:32] <Nafallo> carlos: will we ever loose sweden (swedish)?
[02:32] <Nafallo> carlos: people translates that instead of sweden
[02:32] <carlos> Nafallo, no new additions for it, old ones will remain
[02:32] <kiko> swedish is so great we can translate it twice
[02:32] <Nafallo> carlos: if I look over them, can I get you to remove them one by one after my review?
[02:32] <WaterSevenUb> lifeless: I was wondering how did you find gnome-app-install sources... when I go here https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+sources/  if I write just "gnome" it doesn't show gnome-app-install. The same happens typing "gnome-app-install" in the search box.
[02:32] <Nafallo> kiko: I rather won't have swedish (sweden) :-/
[02:32] <Nafallo> at all
[02:32] <lifeless> WaterSevenUb: the search is broken just now :[
[02:33] <cprov> spiv:  ZConfig has no usable path-aware datatype ?
[02:33] <cprov> spiv: <sectiontype name="librarian_server">
[02:33] <cprov>         <!-- Not 'existing-directory' because the test runner needs to
[02:33] <cprov>         create it. Not 'existing-dirpath' because ZConfig will enforce it
[02:33] <cprov>         for all sections, not just the one we are using -->
[02:33] <cprov> spiv: something is wrong on production config:
[02:33] <cprov> spiv: "/home/launchpad/dists/launchpad/cronscripts/../lib/canonical/launchpad/zcml/gpghandler.zcml", line 13.4     OSError: [Errno 17]  File exists: '/var/tmp/gpg_home'
[02:33] <kiko> cprov, no, that's not the production config
[02:34] <kiko> the problem is that multiple instances are running at the same time
[02:34] <kiko> and they both try to access the same directory
[02:34] <kiko> cprov, look at the bug stub posted (and subscribe to launchpad-bugs)
[02:35] <carlos> Nafallo, ok, if you migrate all data and you just want it deleted, I think we can workout something
[02:36] <cprov> kiko: I don't what to say about you arrogance .. pause
[02:36] <Nafallo> carlos: nice. we will start working on that soon then :-)
[02:36] <stub> cprov: We can make new datatypes easily enough if you care - we already do this for urls. Check out canonical/config/__init__.py
[02:38] <WaterSevenUb> lifeless: there are some menu entries that I am trying to translate but, besides g-a-i which now I understand, do you know how to translate for example "Ubuntu Device Database" menu entry? "Hwdb-client" template is not available I think....
[02:38] <kiko> jordi, so, are you using ubuntu yet? :-P
[02:38] <salgado> stub, have you seen https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1683?
[02:39] <cprov> stub: yep, just because falling in "string" sounds a little bit lazy IMO, I'll look on it ... but $GNUPGHOME needs some love in direction to support multiple zope instances
[02:40] <lifeless> WaterSevenUb: I'd ask on #ubuntu or ubuntu-devel to figure out the source package.
[02:40] <lifeless> then visit .../+sources/packagename/+translating
[02:40] <lifeless> erm.. +translations
[02:40] <stub> cprov: I reported a bug on this suggesting just using a temp directory. I don't see why it needs to be persistant.
[02:40] <stub> (persistant across invokations of the script/application I mean. We want to use the same dir while the tool is running)
[02:40] <lifeless> it doesn't need to persist at all
[02:40] <stub> salgado: Yes - robert was bitching at me about it
[02:40] <WaterSevenUb> lifeless: I search the packagename in packages.ubuntu.com ... but then , or the template with the package name does not exist, or when it exists doesn't have a translatable menu entry. Some of my friends don't like this mixture between different languages in the menus:))
[02:41] <lifeless> cprov: just make a random dir in /tmp using the tmepdir module :)
[02:41] <kiko> salgado, I just assigned it to stub
[02:41] <cprov> stub: right
[02:41] <salgado> stub, do you know what's the problem?
[02:41] <lifeless> carlos: can you help WaterSevenUb its outside my purview now
[02:42] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, you need to translate it from the hardwaredb-client
[02:42] <carlos> let me check if I find it....
[02:42] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, breezy?
[02:42] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: yes
[02:44] <cprov> lifeless: I'm not sure about the reflects ... but looks fine, I'll investigate.
[02:45] <stub> salgado: Current thought is that that account I merged by hand before the real merge code was written.
[02:45] <stub> salgado: But we are looking into it
[02:45] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, seems like it's not ready to be translated
[02:45] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, would you open a bug report against it so the maintainer prepares it to be translated?
[02:46] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: @bugzilla?
[02:47] <salgado> stub, maybe you'd like to fix https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1356 while you're there. ;)
[02:49] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, yeah, I think bugzilla is still used for main
[03:05] <lifeless> jblack: ping
[03:07] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: hal-device-manager seems not to be available either.. should one wait longer that people put in launchpad all these packages instead of boring them : please, put the templates there ? :)
[03:07] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, there are two problems:
[03:08] <carlos> - There is no .pot file to be imported (the case fot the hw application)
[03:08] <carlos> - The .pot file is not being imported (a Rosetta problem unrelated to the maintainer)
[03:09] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, the second one is  a matter to check our logs and find why it was not imported automatically
[03:09] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, the first one needs that the maintainer updates the application to support translations
[03:10] <jblack> lifeless: Morning. What's up?
[03:11] <kiko> yo SteveA?
[03:12] <lifeless> hows that draft looking ?
[03:12] <lifeless> good morning too :)
[03:12] <jblack> Did you get that draft yesterday morning?
[03:12] <lifeless> I'll look ..
[03:12] <SteveA> kiko: yeah
[03:12] <lifeless> uhm
[03:13] <lifeless> do you mean the tomlord specific one, or the wider ocmmunity one ?
[03:13] <jblack> The wider community one.
[03:13] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, hal seems to be a problem with Rosetta, please file a bug at https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+filebug
[03:13] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, and we will take a look at it to get the import done
[03:13] <jblack> You would have received it ~ 8:45am yesterday morning your time.
[03:13] <lifeless> looking now, my mail is glacial here
[03:14] <jblack> I don't see it in my sent messages.
[03:15] <jblack> I sent one just now.
[03:15] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: done!
[03:16] <gothcat> carlos: should this " be translated into " when I save?
[03:17] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, cool, thanks
[03:17] <carlos> gothcat, no
[03:18] <carlos> gothcat, if you see " you should put it again that way
[03:18] <carlos> or the translation would break the application that uses it
[03:18] <Nafallo> carlos: she did, and it got translated to " when she saved :-P.
[03:18] <carlos> wtf...
[03:18] <carlos> Nafallo, gothcat please, file a bug then
[03:19] <Nafallo> carlos: k :-)
[03:19] <carlos> Nafallo, gothcat thank you
[03:23] <gothcat> carlos: #1685
[03:24] <jblack> lifeless: ?
[03:25] <lifeless> cant see it yet
[03:25] <carlos> gothcat, ok
[03:26] <lifeless> is geoip in production working yet ?
[03:27] <jblack> Aug  5 09:15:14 localhost postfix/smtp[10133] : 2E2783B402D: to=<rbcollins@cygwin
[03:27] <jblack> .com>, relay=sourceware.org[<IP_ADDRESS>] , delay=2, status=sent (250 Queued! 1
[03:27] <jblack> 123247715 qp 30339<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:49] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>Lots of fixes in person/+reportedbugs and person/+assignedbugs. r=jamesh (patch-2234<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[04:02] <lifeless> jblack: its coming together nicely, I've emailed you my current thoguhts.
[04:02] <jblack> Ok. Thank you.
[04:03] <jblack> Thanks for the eyeball.
[04:03] <ddaa> What's up?
[04:12] <jordi> kiko: nope :)
[04:12] <jordi> is claire in Brazil?
[04:12] <jordi> or on IRC right now?
[04:15] <carlos> jordi, on IRC
[04:31] <Nafallo> will there be support for grabbing peoples gpg-keys directly from FOAF?
[04:32] <jordi> lifeless: this email you sent to rosetta-users without context at all... what were you trying to say?
[04:32] <jordi> err
[04:32] <jordi> sorry, missread subject :)
[04:34] <jordi> carlos: so if a guy wants to translate zope3 to Aragonese, the "normal" way is to join the Aragonese Ubuntu team and start translating? Or if the Aragonese team doesn't exist, consider creating it?
[04:34] <SteveA> Kinnison: ping
[04:35] <Kinnison> SteveA: hi steve
[04:35] <SteveA> hi
[04:35] <SteveA> back in one piece?
[04:35] <Kinnison> yep
[04:35] <Kinnison> still quite tired from the journey
[04:35] <lifeless> hows the sunburn?
[04:35] <SteveA> The "PocketPages" spec is ready for you to look at
[04:36] <Kinnison> lifeless: almost all healed, thanks for the after-sun
[04:36] <carlos> jordi, not really, that's only needed if there is not such team and you want to translate a product or distribution with translation permissions set to CLOSE
[04:36] <Kinnison> SteveA: has it been reflected onto the main wiki?
[04:36] <SteveA> probably not
[04:37] <SteveA> maybe i can mail you the raw text
[04:37] <Kinnison> and attach any mpt images
[04:37] <carlos> jordi, also, the new policy is that we only create translation teams when there is more tha one person that wants to be a member, if we only have one person, he/she becames 'the team'
[04:37] <jordi> carlos: good
[04:38] <kiko> niemeyer!
[04:38] <niemeyer> Hiho! :)
[04:38] <salgado> Nafallo, in one of my branches I have a change that will list the gpg keys of a given person, so you will be able to get it from a keyserver. I guess this is what we'll have for now
[04:39] <Nafallo> salgado: yea. something like that would be a good start indeed :-)
[04:41] <jordi> carlos: so, a product set to "OPEN", non-team members can translate, but will their translations end up in the po file without review?
[04:41] <carlos> jordi, right
[04:42] <cprov> Nafallo: but why do you need to grab pub keys directly from FOAF ? the keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371 is public
[04:42] <jordi> ok, so this guy should just start translating, no need to join (but recommended?)
[04:42] <cprov> Nafallo: I mean, FOAF isn't a GPG manager application, it only uses GPG key features.
[04:43] <Nafallo> cprov: then I have to search. I want a single location with all info there is :-)
[04:43] <carlos> jordi, if he's only interested on Zope, no need to join any team
[04:43] <carlos> unless zope team decides to move into a CLOSE mode
[04:44] <cprov> Nafallo: IMHO, linking you to a keyserver is the right action we can take
[04:44] <Nafallo> cprov: indeed that would be a good solution :-)
[04:47] <Nafallo> cprov: in the past I wasn't good at handle my gpg-keys, so there are lots of me on subkeys :-P
[04:47] <Nafallo> cprov: a single click to get the correct key would be wonderful :-)
[04:48] <cprov> Nafallo: now that you mentioned, we just support subkeys signatures
[04:48] <jordi> carlos: ok, let's see how I did for my first e-mail :)
[04:48] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:48] <carlos> jordi, I will fire you if I don't like it :-P
[04:49] <Nafallo> cprov: I know ;-)
[04:49] <jordi> SHORTEST CONTRACT EVER
[04:49] <Nafallo> cprov: I follow most channels :-)
[04:49] <Kinnison> SteveA: I've dumped some review comments on the PocketPages stuff
[04:50] <cprov> Nafallo: indeed, you just need to "find and import" them in LP and inspect at nafallo/+gpgkeys , every other operations with keys, like grab pubkey, should be done through our keyserver
[04:51] <cprov> Nafallo: I can see
[04:51] <SteveA> Kinnison: the ball in your court.
[04:51] <jordi> carlos: funny. Can you moderate and while you're at it, change my subscription address?
[04:52] <Kinnison> SteveA: there's a couple of things I'd like done by the guys in .br before I take it on and get it ready for mark to approve
[04:52] <Kinnison> SteveA: particularly I want the facts confirming
[04:52] <jordi> carlos: I haven't got any mail from you re:mailman
[04:52] <Kinnison> SteveA: I'm currently working on a database patch of doom
[04:52] <carlos> jordi, no, but I can send you the password so you do it yourself :-)
[04:52] <Kinnison> SteveA: ask mark if you want to know just how doomful it is
[04:54] <carlos> jordi, mail sent
[04:56] <SteveA> Kinnison: who does PocketPages go to next?  I have the yellow square in my hand.
[04:56] <jordi> this is... totally not serious :)
[04:57] <SteveA> Kinnison: okay, going to mark
[04:58] <carlos> jordi, who did that we are serious?
[04:58] <carlos> s/did/said/
[05:01] <jordi> me too
[05:01] <jordi> and actually I should go and get it
[05:01] <jordi> carlos: so, am I fired
[05:02] <carlos> jordi, not yet ;-)
[05:03] <jordi> good :)
[05:05] <salgado> mpt, I did a lot of changes related to editting people details (http://<IP_ADDRESS>:8086/people/name16), and it'd be great if you have some time to look at it and tell me if it looks reasonable and if there's something I can do to make it look better
[05:13] <Kinnison> lunch? Good plan
[05:14] <Kinnison> lifeless: How often do we cacherev on rocketfuel?
[05:23] <ddaa> Kinnison: baz does automatic cacherevs every 50 revs
[05:23] <ddaa> starting at patch-1 (I know that's stupid) then patch-51 and so on
[05:23] <Kinnison> Odd then
[05:23] <ddaa> dunno if pqm does anything fancier
[05:23] <Kinnison> because I just ended up fetching a cacherev and 64 patches for mainline launchpad
[05:24] <ddaa> the builder will not always take the first cacherev
[05:24] <ddaa> using cacherev for big tree has an important cost in bandwith, disk usage and latter performance. A cacherev-created revlib entry is not hardlinked.
[05:26] <Kinnison> Aye, but I got cached from archive anyway, and then 64 patches
[05:26] <WaterSevenUb> lifeless: let us suppose that I want to give to a couple of friends a breezy portuguese version for a translation consistency check before the final release... by that time the distro translations will be based on all the templates in Rosetta I guess. To correct some of the errors that they might find at that time I would go to Rosetta and then the new language packs for the final release would be corrected?
[05:26] <ddaa> Kinnison: mh... sounds weird indeed. Maybe there was an uncachereved base-0 in te middle
[05:26] <WaterSevenUb> I'm trying to understand how this thing works :)
[05:26] <Kinnison> ddaa: on the launchpad mainline?
[05:26] <ddaa> Kinnison: mh... unlikely :)
[05:26] <Kinnison> ddaa: *shrug* it's not like I care that much, at home the b/w is fine
[05:28] <ddaa> I still have some painfully itchy insect bites from the rafting afternoon in brazil... brazilian blood-sucking insects must be eating too much garana or something...
[05:29] <Kinnison> Speaking of guarana, I found the best drink known to man
[05:29] <Kinnison> It was Aa+Guarana
[05:30] <Kinnison> truly powerful brain-juice
[05:31] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: same question to you Carlos :)
[05:32] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, yes, that's the idea
[05:33] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, if they are not ready on time, a month after release or so the language packs will be updated again
[05:36] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: which did not happen in hoary, right?
[06:00] <Kinnison> Is there some sane way to ask postgresql for a list of views which depend on some relation?
[06:04] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, well, we are working on language pack updates for Hoary too
[06:04] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, I hope we will have them next week
[06:07] <WaterSevenUb> carlos: As far as I understood from someone talking here before, those are not based on Rosetta. When we use the translations from Rosetta in the future, I guess a test phase would be desirable to see if those translations do not have critical issues?
[06:07] <stub> Kinnison: Yes. Need to wade through the system tables to work out the query though.
[06:07] <Kinnison> stub: Don't bother
[06:07] <carlos> WaterSevenUb, the initial translations for Hoary are not based on Rosetta, next update will do
[06:07] <Kinnison> stub: There are 12 views in the launchpad db
[06:07] <Kinnison> stub: 11 of them belong to Soyuz and need changing
[06:07] <Kinnison> stub: the other is a rosetta view
[06:08] <lifeless> Kinnison: please stop making stubs siren go off
[06:08] <Kinnison> lifeless: siren?
[06:08] <lifeless> *once* is enough
[06:08] <lifeless> he uses xchat
[06:09] <Kinnison> Aah and this makes noises when people talk to you?
[06:09] <lifeless> no, it makes noise when people talk to him
[06:09] <carlos> stub, it's just a test :-P
[06:17] <Kinnison> Feck, Just the comment on this db patch is > 1.5kB
[06:18] <Kinnison> stub: Each patch is always applied in a transaction, yes?
[06:18] <lifeless> kinnison - yes, but you can nest if needed
[06:18] <lifeless> erm, to the limits of our postgres that is
[06:18] <lifeless> actually I think I'm on crack
[06:19] <lifeless> each line in the pach is  atransaction unless you add begin/end
[06:19] <Kinnison> s'okay, it's just that given my patch *comment* is 1.5kB, I was checking if I should surround it in BEGIN/COMMIT myself
[06:20] <stub> Kinnison: No begin/commit. That is done automatically by upgrade.py
[06:20] <lifeless> so, I've lost track, and am *still* on crack
[06:20] <Kinnison> stub: righty
[06:20] <lifeless> Kinnison: please stop that :)
[06:20] <Kinnison> lifeless: tell stub to turn his volume down
[06:20] <lifeless> Kinnison: please, jus stop it. iots easier, *trust* me.
[06:21] <stub> stub stub stub stub stub
[06:21] <Kinnison> shouldn't be too hard
[06:43] <Kinnison> stub: Is it okay for me to do very postgresql magic in a db patch?
[06:43] <Kinnison> stub: In particular I want to manipulate the pg_constraint table
[06:43] <stub> Nope - you are not to mess with the internal catalog tables.
[06:43] <stub> What are you trying to do?
[06:46] <Kinnison> rename a bunch of constraints without having to drop and recreate them
[06:46] <SteveA> Kinnison: looks like mark has made some changes and then approved PocketPages
[06:47] <Kinnison> SteveA: Okay, that saves me waffling on it :-)
[06:50] <stub> Kinnison: Drop and recreate them
[06:50] <Kinnison> If you insist
[06:52] <Kinnison> stub: What's the deal on the FTI stuff, if I drop it in my patch, will it get recreated?
[06:53] <Kinnison> Or should I leave it alone entirely?
[06:53] <stub> Kinnison: fti.py rebuilds any fti columns that are define at the top of the script.
[06:53] <stub> Kinnison: So you can drop the fti column (although I can't think why you would want to?)
[06:54] <stub> It will cause some bloatage in the DB though
[06:54] <Kinnison>     "binarypackage_fti" gist (fti)
[06:54] <Kinnison> is an index
[06:54] <Kinnison> when I rename binarypackage
[06:54] <Kinnison> that index should become binarypackagerelease_fti
[06:54] <stub> Ok. Drop the fti column, and update fti.py to use the new table name.
[06:55] <Kinnison> stub: gotcha
[06:55] <stub> How about we just 'CREATE VIEW BinaryPackageRelease AS SELECT * FROM BinaryPackage' :-)
[06:55] <Kinnison> stub: can you please allocate for me a patch-25-XX-0 so I can get this all in the right places?
[07:04] <Kinnison> stub: Hmm, problem.. I can't drop/create all the constraints without ending up dropping/recreating constraints on about six other tables too because they refer to them
[07:05] <stub> Yup. Typing. Punt it to me if you want.
[07:05] <Kinnison> S'okay, I'll do it if this is the "right way" :-)
[07:11] <Kinnison> Somehow, osfile and osfileinpackage have managed to stay alive
[07:11] <Kinnison> anyone mind if I nuke 'em?
[07:20] <Kinnison> So, no complaints? Huzzah
[07:27] <cprov> mpt: questions for AutoBuildUI sorted, it's gonna rock ;), you're doing a great  job !
[07:28] <cprov> Kinnison: Have we already sorted how to nominate the distribution/distrorelease Security Teams ?
[07:28] <cprov> Kinnison: ##soyuz miss you
[07:29] <Kinnison> cprov: I'm unsure about those selecting them
[07:29] <Kinnison> cprov: we'll need UI for them though somewhere
[07:30] <cprov> Kinnison: uhm, let's see the problem by parts: sec-team by distribution or distrorelease ?
[07:31] <Kinnison> the only per-release team is the review team
[07:32] <cprov> Kinnison: so, we are gonna have Ubuntu-Security Team, not Hoary-Security team, ok ?
[07:33] <Kinnison> I believe so
[07:33] <Kinnison> We should get elmo to look at that spec though
[07:35] <cprov> Kinnison: anyways there is no indicator in the distrorelease model point it as SECURITY distrorelease, only changing view for DAR & Pockets
[07:36] <Kinnison> I beg your pardon?
[07:36] <cprov> Kinnison: indeed, is he available this time ?
[07:37] <Kinnison> cprov: put together an email to me and elmo and mark
[07:38] <cprov> Kinnison: uhm, thinking loud .. I mean how can we figure out we are inside a SECURITY distrorelease
[07:38] <cprov> Kinnison: sure, I'll
[07:38] <Kinnison> there isn't such a thing
[07:39] <Kinnison> there's a distrorelease which has been released and has a security pocket though
[07:40] <cprov> Kinnison: right and only thing you can do is following the same distroarchrelease and find out (or not) other pockets, isn't it ?
[07:44] <Kinnison> I'm really not sure what you mean
[07:51] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[r=spiv,lifeless]  po translation navigation fixes, and new-style cve support (patch-2235<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[07:54] <cprov> Kinnison: no problem,  I was just wondering the permitted movements between the pockets available for each distroarchrelease ...
[07:57] <Kinnison> things don't tend to be moved between pockets
[07:57] <Kinnison> And for now we assume they don't move
[07:58] <cprov> Kinnison: right !
[08:07] <salgado> SteveA, should I do some polishing in the ShipItNG or should I leave it as it is now until we get more input?
[08:08] <SteveA> salgado: kiko will come and work with you shortly.  please do any polishing you can now.
[08:08] <salgado> SteveA, sure
[08:11] <salgado> Kinnison, why is flavour irrelevant there?
[08:12] <SteveA> hey everyone, the launchpad wiki will be moving back to london for use monday morning
[08:12] <SteveA> it will turned off at async once we've completed today's work
[08:13] <Kinnison> salgado: we don't make CDs of flavours
[08:13] <salgado> Kinnison, and we're not going to make them, either?
[08:14] <Kinnison> salgado: If/When we do, it'll be a distribution
[08:14] <Kinnison> salgado: flavours are proper distroreleases as far as you're concerned
[08:14] <Kinnison> so Kubuntu is a distribution, not a flavour
[08:14] <Kinnison> Do you see what I mean?
[08:15] <salgado> yes, I see now
[08:15] <Kinnison> Cool
[08:15] <Kinnison> Sorry for not being more exact on the wiki
[08:15] <salgado> where are flavours used, then?
[08:16] <Kinnison> It's part of the derivation machinery
[08:29] <Kinnison> ciao guys
[08:31] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  accumulated fixes: icons for bugs, and consistent link coloring in portlets (patch-2236<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:53] <SteveA> kiko: salgado is waiting for you!
[08:58] <salgado> indeed, I am
[08:58] <lifeless> ddaa - please update launchpad to not have insane deprecation warnings from using pybaz
[09:08] <lifeless> stevea
[09:10] <SteveA> lifeless: yes?
[09:10] <lifeless> any spsecs for me
[09:10] <SteveA> not on my desk
[09:10] <SteveA> we're running a bit low
[09:11] <SteveA> i'll check the whiteboard
[09:11] <lifeless> sweet
[09:11] <SteveA> we are truely scraping the barrel here
[09:12] <lifeless> dont talk about me that way
[09:12] <lifeless> I'll have you up for a Doinkey
[09:13] <lifeless> SteveA: there is no such spec, it has morphed into supermirrorfilesystemHierarchy
[09:14] <SteveA> hurrah
[09:14] <lifeless> SteveA: so, some specs
[09:14] <lifeless> ?
[09:14] <SteveA> spiv: we need to implement LibrarianGarbageCollection soonish
[09:15] <lifeless> why ?
[09:15] <spiv> How much garbage do we have so far? :)
[09:16] <SteveA> we're approaching the line we drew in the sand on the spec
[09:16] <SteveA> and once debbugs is imported...
[09:32] <SteveA> ddaa: ping
[09:34] <carlos> spiv, Rosetta is adding many garbage to Librarian
[09:34] <carlos> spiv, with every file download request
[10:11] <ddaa> SteveA: pong
[10:15] <ddaa> lifeless: I'm working on it, but importd is terribly crufty, and I'm taking the opportunity to make it cleaner instead of adding yet another layer of cruft.
[10:16] <ddaa> I think when I'm done with that iteration we'll actually start to see the end the tunnel for that one.
[10:16] <ddaa> The downside is that it's turning into a bit of rewrite of the archive-related bits...
[10:17] <ddaa> (not really from-scratch, since it mostly a lot of refactoring, but the end will not be all that different from a rewrite)
[10:17] <lifeless> ddaa: remember that the buttress pyarch interfaces can *all* be deleted as we move to the BranchDataStorage model
[10:18] <ddaa> Yes, I'm not on taxi yet.
[10:18] <SteveA> ddaa: in future, please don't deprecate until you've updated
[10:18] <ddaa> Just importd think, I'm creating an ArchiveManager class to collect all the archive operation code that's scattered in Job, JobStrategy and Taxi
[10:18] <lifeless> so don't refactor too much :)... I would seriously consider once mark and sweep to a new name that doesn't conflict with Branch or Revision, then add new db objects that match those and convert code from one to the other, that s the replace algorithm refactoring :)
[10:19] <SteveA> i've done a lot of work on launchpad to minimize the warnings that are produced, and it's kinda irritating to see a load of new warnings all of a sudden.
[10:19] <ddaa> SteveA: In the future I can make a "two-stage deprecation mechanism, something like "pybaz.deprecated_registered_names()", because I find the deprecation most useful to do the updating.
[10:20] <SteveA> ddaa: fine, just don't make everyone else pay the price.
[10:20] <ddaa> SteveA: if that's a problem I can temporarily remove the warnings from rocketfuel.
[10:20] <SteveA> that would help
[10:21] <ddaa> lifeless: right, I'll avoid touching the database-related cruft.
[10:21] <ddaa> It will all suffer it's own rewrite in a later iteration.
[10:22] <kiko> too sick to pray
[10:22] <ddaa> SteveA: I'll do that at once
[10:22] <lifeless> thank you
[10:23] <SteveA> thanks ddaa
[11:14] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  remove archivelocation-related deprecations (patch-38<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[11:14] <ddaa> SteveA: enjoy
[11:14] <ddaa> tell me if I missed any new deprecation
[11:26] <carlos> ddaa, just run 'make check' from the launchpad's top level directory and see the output :-)
[11:28] <ddaa> too lazy to make another checkout, I have some pretty hairy work in progress now
[11:29] <SteveA> ddaa: you can fix the bug too
[11:29] <SteveA> as in, mark it fixed
[11:33] <mikk0> Please help a new translator: What should I enter in the translation, when the English source has a special character.  Thank you carlos :)
[11:49] <dilys> Merge to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[trivial]  Reduced the amount of memory needed to run this script (patch-2237: carlos.perello@canonical.com)


[20:02] <emgent> @schedule
[20:02] <ubotu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 09 Feb 11:00: Kubuntu Developers | 13 Feb 22:30: Forum Council | 15 Feb 04:00: MOTU | 20 Feb 01:00: TriLoCo-Midwest


[01:00] <adidas> How does one go about setting up audio drivers on Ubuntu Server on an 6-8 year old dell, and should I be using OSS or ALSA?
[01:48] <SejmL> hello
[01:49] <SejmL> is there any way to change the audio input jack into an output one?
[02:26] <holstein> SejmL: you can try JACK, but that hardware
[02:37] <holstein> SejmL: i meant to say, thats hardware... that function is going to be hardware AFAIK
[07:26] <w47331> hello all
[07:40] <w47331> http://www.alsa-project.org/db/?f=a20763398876e16c4ff67b07823edd709f4eb7b0   sound help please...i hear nothing
[13:10] <MrChrisDruif> Aloha, I've got a problem with grub not finding all installations
[13:12] <holstein> hello MrChrisDruif
[13:12] <MrChrisDruif> Hai holstein
[13:13] <holstein> im about to run out the door, but i would probably try reinstalling grub, then i would just add them manually if they were still not picked up auto-magically
[13:13] <holstein> i would be suspicous as to why they are not being picked up though...
[13:14] <MrChrisDruif> http://paste.ubuntu.com/705657/ <= sudo fdisk -l
[13:24] <geirha> ... and?
[13:25] <MrChrisDruif> sda1 is Lubuntu 11.10. sda3 is Ubuntu 11.04
[13:26] <MrChrisDruif> I can only boot to Lubuntu 11.10
[13:27] <MrChrisDruif> And "sudo update-grub" can't seem to find the Ubuntu on sda3, only the two kernel versions for Lubuntu
[13:30] <holstein> MrChrisDruif: i think the file you need to edit starts with "#do not edit this file" ;)
[13:31] <MrChrisDruif> Yeah, it's always the same !@$# ;-)
[13:31] <geirha> MrChrisDruif: Did you install Lubuntu last?
[13:31] <holstein> you should see the other entries there, and you can mimic them for the other install thats not getting picked up
[13:31] <geirha> And during the install, did you specify where to install grub?
[13:32] <geirha> If not, then Lubuntu can't find Ubuntu, because Lubuntu's grub overwrote Ubuntu's.
[13:32] <holstein> but, it should just search all drives for kernels right?
[13:32] <MrChrisDruif> I thought I told the installer to install them side-by-side <_<"
[13:32] <holstein> osprober or whatever it is looks for installs not boot entries right?
[13:33] <MrChrisDruif> Thought so, and it is installed
[13:33] <geirha> I thought it only looked for bootloaders
[13:33] <MrChrisDruif> How would it find Windows then?
[13:33] <holstein> geirha: and thats more of a question really...
[13:33] <holstein> im not 100% on that
[13:34] <geirha> If it did search for kernels, how would it know which partitions to use as root for those kernels?
[13:34] <pip__> holstein: are you in the room?
[13:35] <holstein> pip__: for a bit... whats up?
[13:35] <pip__> oh nothing, you gave me a tip the other day, graphics probs
[13:35] <pip__> thought I'd update you
[13:35] <geirha> MrChrisDruif: Windows will have a bootloader of sorts on the partition.
[13:35] <holstein> sure... how goes the battle pip__ ?
[13:36] <geirha> MrChrisDruif: Chroot into the Ubuntu system and install its grub on /dev/sda1
[13:36] <pip__> lol, so-so.  I can't enable desktop effects in a live 10.10 environment, but a live 11.04 environment runs Unity
[13:36] <pip__> any idea what that's about?
[13:37] <pip__> the internet seems less 'wobbly' with 11.04 too
[13:37] <holstein> pip__: kernel verion? maybe something about the drivers for your hardware
[13:38] <pip__> ah, you know I wasn't bright enough to note them :-/
[13:38] <holstein> pip__: i could imagine some ATI hardware that would only work with the proprietary driver getting open driver support in a newer kernel verion
[13:38] <holstein> version*
[13:38] <holstein> pip__: eh... its a live CD.. you can do it next time :)
[13:39] <pip__> I'm pretty certain that the 10.10 kernel version that wouldn't give effects was 2.6.35, that was on a real install
[13:39] <holstein> im just speculating though...
[13:40] <pip__> lol, it's better than nothing at this point
[13:40] <holstein> no reason *not* to install 11.10 now though
[13:40] <pip__> well, that's exactly what I'm thinking
[13:40] <holstein> or, just dont do compiz
[13:40] <pip__> but compiz is soooooooooooooooo pretty
[13:40] <holstein> wobbly windows are fun and all, but i dont use compiz on everything
[13:41] <pip__> I don'tdoowobbly, mainly the cube & some emerald decoration TBH
[13:41] <pip__> don'tdo wobbly, even
[13:42] <pip__> I'm assuming that there are still issues with the cube & stuff with unity
[13:42] <holstein> i wouldnt know
[13:42] <pip__> That asidethough if Unity's a little more stable now I'd like to give it another go
[13:43] <holstein> unity-2d is nice and light
[13:43] <holstein> or was when i checked it out
[13:43] <pip__> there were just a couple of things that niggled me in Unity 3d so I went back to 10.10.
[13:43] <pip__> yeah, that's an idea...
[13:43] <pip__> 2d I mean
[13:44] <holstein> you can run gnome in 11.04
[13:44] <holstein> gnome2... its 11.10 that will have gnome3
[13:44] <pip__> I found that a touch twitchy too TBH, ergo the step back
[13:45] <holstein> eh.. if i were stepping back, id go to the LTS... 10.04
[13:45] <holstein> thats what im running
[13:45] <holstein> anyways... i gotta run... later all
[13:45] <pip__> thanks holstein ttfn
[19:29] <oscar> hi i am having boot problems any help appriciated