[12:31] <kris> hello everybody
[12:31] <kris> hi for LaserJock and nixternal
[12:32] <kris> can you tell me how to check available memory on hdd in edubuntu?
[12:34] <LaserJock> df -h ?
[12:35] <kris> oh you are here
[12:37] <kris> ok thank you very much
[01:22] <kris> how to install locale spell checking in thunderbird ?
[01:23] <LaserJock> do you have the language pack for that language?
[01:29] <kris> yes if it is xpi extension file
[01:31] <LaserJock> no, you should get it from Ubuntu
[01:32] <kris> thunderbird-locale-pl installed
[02:19] <sbalneav> ogra!
[02:19] <ajmitch> heh
[02:20] <ajmitch> sbalneav! ;)
[02:20] <sbalneav> ajmitch! :)
[02:20] <ajmitch> what's up?
[02:23] <LaserJock> hi sbalneav
[02:25] <sbalneav> Sitting here testing Edubuntu
[02:26] <ajmitch> fun
[02:26] <sbalneav> rythmbox with built in Jamendo support is going to be a BIG timewaster for me, I can see.
[02:28] <sbalneav> I should get off my butt one of these days, and finish off a project I started years ago.
[02:28] <ajmitch> heh
[02:28] <sbalneav> I basically started a modern distributed auth backend, using postgresql
[02:29] <sbalneav> A sql database is ONE HECK of a lot easier to deal with than ldap.
[02:31] <ajmitch> yes, but why?
[02:31] <ajmitch> ldap is nice & standardised
[02:31] <ajmitch> :)
[02:32] <ajmitch> plus it's lots of fun
[02:32] <sbalneav> Tell me, to add a new user, which would you rather do: the whole ldap thing, or "insert into passwd values("sbalneav", "/home/sbalneav", "Scott Balneaves"....)
[02:33] <ajmitch> the whole ldap thing
[02:33] <sbalneav> I use ldap all the time, but it's cumbersome, and with the exception of gq, there's no really good frontend.
[02:33] <ajmitch> since I'd use some tool to do it
[02:33] <sbalneav> Yeah, which tool?
[02:33] <ajmitch> you've tried various ones like lat, luma, ldap-account-manager, phpldapadmin, cpu?
[02:34] <ajmitch> cpu is a nice commandline tool, fwiw
[02:34] <sbalneav> Yep, don't like 'em.
[02:34] <ajmitch> what's so bad about them?
[02:34] <sbalneav> But, hey, that's just me.  Like I say, ldap's out there and we deal with it.
[02:34] <sbalneav> For where I am, though, dealing with it as a database would be much easier.
[02:34] <ajmitch> bah, you're just different :)
[02:37] <ajmitch> but I don't know if I'd have time, etc
[05:50] <Bhaskar> goodmorning all, i want to know lts is built in or not in edubuntu
[05:52] <Burgundavia> Bhaskar: ltsp?
[05:52] <Bhaskar> ya linux terminal server package
[05:52] <Burgundavia> yes, very much so
[05:52] <Burgundavia> the work edubuntu/ubuntu did is now LTSP 5
[05:54] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, extra installation or packaged in live CD?
[05:54] <Burgundavia> as part of the regular install
[05:54] <Burgundavia> there is no room on the live cd
[05:54] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, we want to use lts in schools
[05:54] <Burgundavia> ltsp, not lts
[05:55] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, we want to use edubuntu in schools
[05:55] <Burgundavia> lts in ubuntu refers to "long term support"
[05:55] <Bhaskar> oh!
[05:55] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, i mean ltsp
[05:55] <Bhaskar> LTSP"Linux Terminal Server Project"
[05:55] <Burgundavia> yep
[05:56] <Burgundavia> what sort of help do you need?
[05:56] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, i want to know whether LTSP package is pre-packaged in edubuntu or not
[05:57] <Burgundavia> yes, they are
[05:57] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, in which version?
[05:57] <Burgundavia> http://edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
[05:57] <Burgundavia> 6.06 and later
[05:57] <kgoetz> sigh. deja vu
[05:58] <Burgundavia> kgoetz: deja vu?
[05:59] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, can we use edubuntu 6.06 in shools for LTSP
[05:59] <kgoetz> Burgundavia: Bhaskar and i had this conversation last night (my time). 15 ~ hours ago
[05:59] <Burgundavia> ahh
[05:59] <Burgundavia> Bhaskar: yes
[05:59] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, well
[06:00] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, i am going to deploy LTSP in schools of Nepal
[06:00] <Burgundavia> ah
[06:00] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, so i want to use edubuntu in schools
[06:01] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, have u use edubuntu?
[06:01] <Burgundavia> yes
[06:02] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, how it is ? what is different than Ubuntu 6.06 or 6.10
[06:02] <Burgundavia> it works well
[06:02] <Burgundavia> 6.06 is supported for a longer period than 6.10
[06:03] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, in school edubuntu plays vital role?
[06:03] <Burgundavia> I don't work in a school
[06:03] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, ya
[06:04] <Bhaskar> Burgundavia, for student what are the package in edubuntu?
[06:05] <sbalneav> gcompris, kmath, tuxpaint, etc.
[06:06] <sbalneav> Theres a lot of educational content for younger kids, and older ones too.
[06:06] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, have u found edubuntu  is effective ?
[06:07] <sbalneav> For the school that I helped out, yes.
[06:07] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, for schools?
[06:07] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, in 6.06 LTSP is buit in so we can interconnect thin client for economical
[06:08] <sbalneav> Yes, but the one in 6.10 is much better
[06:08] <sbalneav> An the soon to be released 7.04 is even more improved.
[06:08] <sbalneav> That will come out in April
[06:08] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, 6.10 Edubuntu?
[06:09] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, in 6.10 edubuntu thin client support or not?
[06:09] <sbalneav> Yes, there is thin client support in 6.10
[06:12] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, in urs view, edubuntu liked by student?
[06:12] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, i mean it is better solution in schools?
[06:12] <sbalneav> The one's I've seen seem to like it, and my own kids like it.
[06:13] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, well
[06:13] <sbalneav> As for whether it's a better solution, why not try it and see.
[06:13] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, i want to deploy it in schools in Nepal
[06:13] <sbalneav> It won't cost you anything :)
[06:14] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, ya
[06:16] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, where r u from?
[06:17] <sbalneav> Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
[06:22] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, Edubuntu 7.04?
[06:25] <sbalneav> What's your question?
[06:27] <Bhaskar> sbalneav, difference between edubuntu 6.06 nd 7.04?
[06:27] <Bhaskar> for LTSP
[06:27] <sbalneav> What, you want me to LIST the differences?
[06:27] <sbalneav> there's hundreds of improvements
[06:28] <sbalneav> newer == better
[06:28] <LaserJock> we hope :-)
[06:29] <sbalneav> :)
[06:32] <Burgundavia> sbalneav: we had better file an MIR for asterisk
[09:25] <highvoltage> edubuntugirl: tell ogra this looks like Edubuntu, doesn't it? http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/25/homebrew-xbox-360-runs-ubuntu/
[09:25] <edubuntugirl> Righto, highvoltage!
[09:25] <RichEd> hi highvoltage, rockprincess, edubuntugirl
[09:25] <edubuntugirl> RichEd: I'm not following you...
[09:25] <rockprincess> good morning RichEd!
[09:25] <kgoetz> hi all
[09:26] <RichEd> hey karl\
[09:26] <kgoetz> hi
[09:26] <rockprincess> good morning Karl!
[09:28] <Burgundavia> hey highvoltage
[09:28] <kgoetz> rockprincess: good afternoon :)
[09:30] <LaserJock> RichEd!!
[09:30] <highvoltage> hey RichEd, rockprincess, kgoetz, rockprincess and LaserJock!
[09:30] <RichEd> hi LaserJock ... been in darkest Africa for a week ... back at my desk & reliable internet again today
[11:49] <ogra> highvoltage, yes, thats definately edubuntu and not ubuntu, pretty cool :)
[11:49] <edubuntugirl> ogra: by the way, highvoltage told me to tell you 'this looks like Edubuntu, doesn't it? http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/25/homebrew-xbox-360-runs-ubuntu/' 2 hours, 24 minutes and 22 seconds ago (on Mon Mar 26 09:25:43 2007)
[11:49] <ogra> hi RichEd !!!!
[11:49] <RichEd> mr ogra sir ... how are you ?
[11:50] <RichEd> finally back from Nigeria ... with 50% of my luggage
[11:50] <ogra> relaxed, beta out the door and head a nice weekend :)
[11:50] <ogra> *had
[11:50] <ogra> ugh, where is the rest ?
[11:51] <RichEd> I'll need to track it down today ... our Virgin Nigeria flight was 4 hours late ... so we were rushed through to our connecting flight back to SA (30 people) without luggage.
[11:52] <RichEd> We had a choice of wait for luggage, and spend the weekend in Lagos airport, or fly home now, luggage later.
[11:52] <RichEd> I took option 2 :)
[11:52] <ogra> heh
[11:53] <juliux> hey RichEd
[11:53] <juliux> hi ogra
[11:54] <RichEd> hi juliux
[11:55] <juliux> ogra, did you think you can come to linuxtag this year?
[11:56] <ogra> i think i'm scheduled for a Q&A sessions ...
[11:56] <juliux> cool
[11:56] <ogra> -s
[11:56] <ogra> i havent really cared to be honest, but somebody in the company asked for it and i agreed to come ...
[11:57] <ogra> so i dont know the exact status :) have to ask ... beta kept me out of such stuff
[11:57] <juliux> i talked on cebit with several people who want to use edubuntu in germany on schools
[11:57] <ogra> nice ! :)
[11:58] <juliux> and we allready have 4 schools on the *ubuntu in de wiki page
[11:58] <ogra> wow, make sure will gets an info about it if he's back, he will surely want to put it on a success story link or something
[11:59] <juliux> i will send him the link
[02:38] <cliebow_> any way around scrollkeeper error Entity "irc-server" not defined?
[04:00] <bddebian> Heya
[04:46] <sbalneav> Morning all
[04:46] <sbalneav> ogra: ping
[04:47] <ogra> sbalneav, pongedipong
[04:47] <sbalneav> hey hey
[04:47] <sbalneav> Did more testing on the weekend, installed edubuntu on my laptop
[04:47] <sbalneav> For some reason the restricted modules didn't get installed by default
[04:48] <ogra> you didnt use the latest iso :P
[04:48] <sbalneav> I used the beta one, true.
[04:48] <sbalneav> Was that a known bug?
[04:48] <highvoltage> sbalneav: did you see the edubuntu screenshot on the playstation?
[04:48] <sbalneav> Other than that, it went slick
[04:48] <sbalneav> No?
[04:48] <sbalneav> Playstation 2?
[04:49] <sbalneav> As well, what's the recommended way to load the second cd?
[04:50] <ogra> thats edubuntu booting on an xbox360 :) http://mydedibox.homelinux.com/downloads/x360/ubuntu_360.avi
[04:51] <sbalneav> Finally!  A use for a Microsoft product!
[04:52] <highvoltage> oops, meant xbox360, no wonder I couldn't find the link again :)
[07:28] <Burgwork> sbalneav: you around?
[07:34] <sbalneav> yes, for the moment
[07:35] <sbalneav> Burgwork: yes
[07:47] <Burgwork> argh, now I am busy
[09:00] <cbx33> hi all
[09:06] <Burgwork> hey cbx33
[09:07] <highvoltage> hey
[09:19] <cbx33> hey Burgwork
[09:20] <cbx33> brb
[09:47] <Petaris> Hello all
[09:48] <Petaris> my ethernet cards/ports have disappeared, is there anyway to get the system to probe for them?
[09:48] <Petaris> I know they are working fine because I booted a xubuntu live cd and they were there and working
[09:49] <Petaris> this is occuring on dapper
[09:50] <Petaris> all network-admin shows is ethernet 3, 4, and 5
[09:50] <Petaris> all non-configured
[09:51] <Petaris> I should mention that I had to swap out this motherboard, it only has three ethernet interfaces on it
[09:51] <Petaris> Is there a way I can get it to call them eth0, 1, 2 again?
[09:53] <sbalneav> Petaris: check in /etc/iftab
[09:54] <sbalneav> You'll have to update the mac addresses of all the interfaces with their respective eth[x]  designations
[09:54] <Petaris> hrm
[09:55] <Petaris> is there a way to see their mac addresses?
[09:55] <Petaris> ifconfig won't show them
[09:57] <Petaris> nevermind, I just had to "activate them to get the mac
[09:58] <Petaris> sbalneav: Thanks for your help
[09:59] <cliebow_> !j
[09:59] <ubotu> Sorry, I don't know anything about j - try searching on http://bots.ubuntulinux.nl/factoids.cgi
[10:05] <sbalneav> Different bot in this channel cliebow_
[10:08] <cliebow_> i just figgreed that out


[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:42] <kholerabbi> Wow, this place is like my hall of heroes :D
[16:30] <wendar> mhall119: yes, the MyUnity developers would be very interested in design input
[16:38] <mhall119> wendar: cool, maybe we can get them into the next meeting to discuss what they would like and what we can offer
[16:40] <MrChrisDruif> When is the next meeting again?
[16:40] <MrChrisDruif> Maybe we could add it to the topic of the IRC channel?
[16:50] <wendar> mhall119: they suggested email would be best
[16:51] <wendar> MrChrisDruif: weekly on wednesdays, is it not in the channel topic? (my client isn't showing any topic at the moment)
[16:51] <MrChrisDruif> wendar; Home of the Ubuntu Design Team | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesignTeam | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-design
[16:52] <wendar> MrChrisDruif: okay, I'll fix that
[17:03] <wendar> MrChrisDruif: how's that?
[17:03] <MrChrisDruif> Good enough =) Thanks =)


[00:56] <bluesabre> Logan_: #ubuntu-release...
[00:56] <bluesabre> 00:25 <infinity> bluesabre: Get someone to upload it, much easier to review in the queue.
[00:56] <bluesabre> 00:25 <infinity> bluesabre: (but looks fine to me)
[00:57] <Logan_> why didn't I know that was a channel? :P
[00:57] <bluesabre> :)
[01:00] <Unit193> ..Wait, you didn't? 0_o
[02:18] <Logan_> bluesabre, Unit193: I apparently was there before during the Raring cycle
[02:18] <Logan_> because it came up as scrollback when I joined
[02:18] <Logan_> [17:41:05]  * Topic for #ubuntu-release is: Ubuntu 12.10 released | Archive: Open | Raring Ringtail Release Coordination.  Please don't upload things during freezes where you shouldn't, or be prepared to apologise to the release team | we accept payment in cash, check or beer | melior malum quod cognoscis
[02:19] <Logan_> well, now I'm there again, so all is good in the world
[07:54] <ochosi> morning everyone
[07:54] <elfy> hi ochosi
[09:20] <ochosi> amigamagic: so some quick feedback on your patch
[09:20] <ochosi> i think that it generally makes sense to distinguish between the grouped and ungrouped windows visually
[09:20] <ochosi> the idea with the label isn't too bad, how does it affect the width of the window-button?
[09:21] <ochosi> if you set up e.g. a vertical panel, does the icon get downscaled?
[09:21] <ochosi> from my POV the ideal solution would be to have a sort of "badge" on top of the icon, like emblems in thunar
[09:22] <ochosi> with a background color to make sure the label is always readable
[09:23] <amigamagic> ochosi, yes, I could set a background color for the number
[09:24] <amigamagic> for now I'm using the default color used for the labels
[09:24] <amigamagic> so I think it should be always visible, if the theme is not messed up
[09:25] <ochosi> yeah, but i was actually wondering if the label can't be stacked on top of the appicon
[09:26] <amigamagic> I just tried the vertical "deskbar" panel
[09:26] <elfy> ochosi: that would look better imo
[09:26] <amigamagic> the icons are scaled to accomodate the number :)
[09:31] <amigamagic> ochosi, I've tried the thunar emblems feature (I didn't know it) and the emblems are placed first at the bottom right of the icon
[09:33] <amigamagic> btw, emblems implementation is a little buggy, isn't it?
[09:34] <amigamagic> when I place an emblem on a file of the desktop, I will not see emblems on them. If I place an emblem inside Thunar, it will work.
[09:35] <amigamagic> And if I place an emblem in the desktop folder, inside a Thunar window, then you will see the emblem on the desktop too.
[09:40] <amigamagic> mmmh... it looks like on the desktop it's a bit random if you will see the emblems or not... Sometimes they will be displayed after 1 minute from your last mod!
[09:46] <amigamagic> anyway, back to my grouped number mod, me too I think that a "badge" on the icon of the taskbar would be nicer. For now I'm solving some alignment problems when you change size options for the panel. When I'm done with this mod I could try to make a "badged" version.
[10:15] <ochosi> amigamagic: sounds good to me
[11:29] <amigamagic> do you think I should make an option to let the user choice if display the little number when you select "always" in grouping option, or it should be the "only" behaviour when you select "always"?
[11:29] <amigamagic> ochosi, elfy ^^
[11:31] <amigamagic> personally, I think that you should always see a visual feedback when there is more than one app stacked in one group in the taskbar, but maybe someone is happy with the current behaviour (no visual feedback for the stacked icons)?
[11:32] <ochosi> i think that option might be over the top
[11:32] <ochosi> but if you add one, i'd just add a separate checkbox for it
[11:32] <ochosi> that is only sensitive when grouping is chosen
[11:37] <amigamagic> ok... I don't know if it's worth the effort :D
[11:38] <ochosi> yeah, me neither
[11:38] <ochosi> i'd not start with making it optional
[11:38] <ochosi> *if* ppl complain, that can always be considered
[11:46] <bluesabre> ochosi: any feedback on the taskbar plugin?
[11:59] <ochosi> bluesabre: i've been testing it since yesterday
[11:59] <ochosi> it works ok actually
[11:59] <ochosi> but it's a bit buggy
[11:59] <ochosi> so it'd need a fixup
[11:59] <ochosi> (and a release)
[11:59] <bluesabre> right
[12:00] <ochosi> the default theming isn't ideal
[12:00] <ochosi> that'd have to be improved
[12:00] <ochosi> and the bug i showed you (for parole) is illustrative of a general issue in the plugin
[12:00] <bluesabre> have you found the developer?
[12:00] <ochosi> but you can do a pretty perfect unity-like setup with the taskbar plugin
[12:00] <ochosi> which is nice
[12:01] <ochosi> haven't gotten in touch yet, wanna write down the issues first and create a roadmap or something
[12:01] <bluesabre> ok
[12:01] <ochosi> but if i don't find time for that soon, i'll just try to get a hold of him as it is
[12:01] <ochosi> last commit is already a year ago, so who knows
[12:01] <bluesabre> cool, keep me posted
[12:01] <bluesabre> I tested it a while back and stopped using it because it was buggy
[12:02] <ochosi> willd do
[12:02] <ochosi> yeah, you can easily install it from the packages Unit193 made
[12:02] <ochosi> btw, we really need to set up a common xubuntu testing PPA
[12:02] <ochosi> where more ppl have access, so that testing packages aren't so scattered anymore
[12:02] <ochosi> not only elfy will appreciate that
[12:03]  * elfy would certainly appreciate that :)
[12:04] <elfy> ochosi: I'm fiddling with wiki pages - shall I add it to the thursdat meeting
[12:04] <ochosi> yeah, pls do
[12:05] <bluesabre> sounds good, I'll help set something up
[12:05] <bluesabre> gotta run, bbl
[12:07] <elfy> ochosi: ok - done that
[12:23] <amigamagic> ochosi, are you testing another taskbar plugin? Maybe it's that with the pinning feature?
[12:23] <ochosi> amigamagic: yes, that's the one i'm testing
[12:23] <amigamagic> I tried it and it was a little buggy
[12:23] <ochosi> if you wanna help, you can write down the bugs you found and pastebin them
[12:24] <ochosi> or we can put them on a wiki page somewhere
[12:25] <amigamagic> ok, it would be nice to have icons pinnable and with the visual feedback of grouped icons... Then it could definitely replace the default one. :)
[12:26] <ochosi> yeah, or it could just be an additional plugin
[12:27] <ochosi> for now the latter seems easier
[12:28] <amigamagic> I'm finishing my mod, then I have to upload the patch somewhere so that you can try it
[12:30] <ochosi> ideally create a bugreport on bugs.xfce.org and attach the patch there
[12:32] <amigamagic> ok, I will do it, then I let you know
[13:01] <elfy> seem to have lost indicator-messages again
[13:50] <knome> christoffer, hmpf, we should take it here or -offtopic ;)
[13:51] <christoffer> knome, ok
[13:51] <knome> christoffer, ooh, exciting
[13:51] <knome> what have they hired you for?
[14:05] <elfy> knome: if we've got meeting on Thursday - which I thought we did can you add it to the calendar
[14:08] <amigamagic> hey guys, can you tell me if, in the current implementation, the icon of a grouped icon is "smaller" than the other ones? (try to set an height >= 40 pixel for the panel)
[14:09] <elfy> yes it is
[14:09] <amigamagic> ok, so this is another bug I fixed
[14:09] <amigamagic> thank you elfy
[14:10] <elfy> then that really needs to be seperate imo - what happens if nothing gets done with the number in the grouping thing?
[14:11] <amigamagic> wait, I'm verifying...
[14:11] <elfy> pretty sure there was a bug for that - unless it was you talking about it in here previously
[14:11] <amigamagic> oh, elfy, in my current implementation you can't choose if you want the number or not
[14:12] <amigamagic> if you select ALWAYS in the group option, then you will see the little number
[14:12] <elfy> I'm talking about icon size
[14:13] <elfy> personally neither affect me as I don't use the plugin at all - but *someone* was talking about icon size in the plugin recently
[14:13] <elfy> the only one I've ever heard trying to make it work like windows is you :p
[14:14] <amigamagic> in my mod, the icons are big when you select ALWAYS in the group option
[14:14] <amigamagic> I mean they have the same size as the "not grouped" one
[14:15] <elfy> the icons in window buttons plugin are smaller without your mod
[14:15] <amigamagic> but if you select "show labels", then they will be small, as in the current implementation
[14:15] <amigamagic> yes, elfy, without my mod they are smaller when are grouped
[14:15] <amigamagic> and I don't like that...
[14:19] <elfy> they are smaller when ungrouped as well
[14:19] <amigamagic> elfy, have you selected "always" option?
[14:19] <amigamagic> and "no labels" ?
[14:19] <elfy> I've not selected anything - I don't use it :)
[14:21] <amigamagic> so, being that you don't use it, you are "remembering" how it works? :)
[14:21] <elfy> though that might be as intended behaviour
[14:22] <elfy> amigamagic: I can remember a few minutes ago
[14:23] <elfy> http://imagebin.org/306975
[14:24] <elfy> smaller - and I'm not adding it to the panel again lol
[14:24] <elfy> https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9619
[14:31] <amigamagic> I'm surprised that from 2012-12 noone has fixed that...
[14:32] <amigamagic> my mod fix it as a collateral consequence :D
[14:33] <amigamagic> I think I have solved the little things in my mod... Now I have to clean a little the code and I will make a patch
[14:33] <amigamagic> so you can try it (if you want) :)
[14:38]  * amigamagic has connection problems. Stupid wifi router!
[14:40] <amigamagic> I noticed that the taskbar plugin lacks the feature to restore all the minimized windows... There is a "maximize" contextual menu, but to me it works only for windows already restored. If they are minimized, they will keep to be minimized.
[14:41] <amigamagic> I'm always talking of grouped windows, of course
[14:44] <amigamagic> To me it seems that the original developer didn't give much importance to the grouped icons feature, so he keep that in a sort of incomplete status.
[14:45] <elfy> seems to me that the whole thing is a non-issue tbh - but then I don't ever use it :)
[14:46] <amigamagic> elfy, if you don't use some feature, it doesn't mean no one will use it :)
[14:46] <amigamagic> and it doesn't mean it's not broken...
[14:47] <elfy> well I guess that lots of people do use it - but the absence of any bugs for it not telling them how many things are grouped says something too
[14:47] <elfy> but anyway - I wouldn't want you to think I don't think you're doing something worthwhile :)
[14:48] <amigamagic> elfy, to me that means that a very few people use the grouped feature in xfce. But I understand that noone would use it as it is now... :)
[14:49] <elfy> I used it for a while - as grouped - but knowing how many I had grouped was of no interest to me - as I had to click it to open one of the grouped things, and as soon as I did that I could see how many there were :)
[14:49] <elfy> not really sure how useful a number is :)
[14:49] <amigamagic> and maybe xfce users are more technical guys, or they are less spoiled guys than me...
[14:50] <elfy> but - I am not going to talk about it - stop leading me on :D
[14:50] <amigamagic> :D
[14:50] <amigamagic> maybe I should not make this patch anymore... :D
[14:50] <elfy> ha ha - you carry one - ochosi thinks it's worth your time :)
[15:10] <knome> elfy, done
[15:10] <amigamagic> sorry guys, what's the default panel size? 30 ?
[15:15] <nhoj> 24
[15:15] <amigamagic> thanx
[15:15] <nhoj> jumps to 34 if you touch the slider
[15:16] <amigamagic> wow, are you sure it's 24: that's pretty small to my eyes
[15:16] <amigamagic> ?
[15:16] <nhoj> I could be wrong -- seems small to me but then I increased the font size
[15:39] <ochosi> amigamagic: yes, it is 24
[15:40] <ochosi> the top panel height is pretty much the same in unity, osx and xubuntu
[15:40] <ochosi> obviously with window-grouping and hiding labels, the window buttons would become too small to be usable, so the panel size would have to be increased
[15:40] <amigamagic> at 24 pixel the number is high as the small icon itself!
[15:40] <ochosi> yup, i'm not surprised
[15:41] <ochosi> as i said, that's not what the panel config is set out for
[15:43] <amigamagic> I think my mod is useful for who loves to have grouped icons with a panel high at least 32 pixel
[15:44] <ochosi> yeah
[15:44] <ochosi> i'm currently testing the taskbar plugin in a unity-like setup
[15:44] <ochosi> it's actually not too bad
[15:45] <amigamagic> I tried to launch a pinned thunar and the pinned icon did flash but no thunar was loaded...
[15:45] <ochosi> yes, i think the problem is that the plugin saves the app + argument unescaped
[15:46] <ochosi> so it ends up executing thunar $folder, instead of "thunar $folder"
[15:46] <ochosi> i noticed that when i pinned parole after opening a movie
[15:46] <ochosi> you can see in the playlist sidebar that the programme parameters are garbled up
[15:46] <elfy> knome: thanks - I'd have done the wiki - but wasn't completely sure if we were meeting this week or not
[15:47] <knome> elfy, np
[15:47] <knome> the meeting is in the google calendar now as well
[15:47] <ochosi> good
[15:48] <elfy> hopefully enough people will pitch up to make it worthwhile - there's a fair bit on it
[21:18] <Unit193> https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/xubuntu-default-settings/lightdm.conf/+merge/216782
[21:39] <ochosi> Unit193: yup, received mail about it
[21:40] <Unit193> Figured in case anyone didn't.
[21:40] <ochosi> yup, ty


[13:13] <manusheel> lfaraone: Hi Luke.
[13:14] <manusheel> Around?
[13:22] <lfaraone> Hi, manusheel.
[13:23] <lfaraone> manusheel: I ran by my guide through Jonas Smedegaard, the maintainer of Sugar in Debian, and am planning on incorporating his comments into the document revision. I also moved the document to the Debian wiki, but we can move it elsewhere if desired. http://wiki.debian.org/Sugar/GettingStartedGuide
[13:23] <lfaraone> manusheel: Did you recieve his reply, and do you think it would be productive to revise it as he indicated?
[13:33] <manusheel> lfaraone: Sorry, I was not at my desk.
[13:34] <manusheel> lfaraone: Sure. I have been following Jonas's memo. Yes, we should incorporate the set of revisions mentioned by him.
[13:35] <manusheel> lfaraone: I have gone through the guide. Thank you for hosting it at wiki.debian.org.
[13:35] <manusheel> lfaraone: How much time do you think will be needed to revise the tutorial?
[13:35] <lfaraone> manusheel: Probably about an hour, for the less invasive changes.
[13:36] <manusheel> lfaraone: Ok, sure.
[13:37] <lfaraone> manusheel: After that, I'll reply asking for future comments from Jonas et al. If I still have time today, what else would it be useful to have done?
[13:38] <manusheel> lfaraone: Great. I think we should start looking at seeing whether Sugar now runs via ppa.
[13:39] <lfaraone> manusheel: That seems sensible. I'll set up a VM today and do some testing.
[13:39] <manusheel> lfaraone: Let us examine and report issues on what all is not working when we set up Sugar via ppa.
[13:39] <manusheel> lfaraone: Great.
[13:40] <manusheel> lfaraone: Try and use zsync. That will help you syncing up the changes as you set up vm.
[13:43] <manusheel> lfaraone: Can you document the steps for setting up VM, and the tests that you'll be doing?
[13:44] <manusheel> This will save us time and improve scalability of our work.
[13:47] <lfaraone> manusheel: Sure.
[13:48] <manusheel> lfaraone: Thank you. Appreciate it.
[13:51] <manusheel> I think we should include the following while reporting an issue - summary of the issue; steps to reproduce; resolution; remarks.
[13:51] <manusheel> lfaraone: That would help in improving the QA and development lifecycle processes.


[00:02] <pangolin> kick me you fools
[00:03] <stlsaint> ;up
[00:05] <pangolin> haha
[00:06] <pangolin> thank you
[00:06] <stlsaint> np
[00:49] <vandal-> whats the best browser for pc with Pentium IV 1,7 GHz and 512 MB RAM wiht lubuntu? chrome or firefox  hang up for several seconds rather often
[00:50] <Viman> vandal: try seamonkey
[00:52] <Unit193> Seamonkey??
[00:53] <Viman> yes, seamonkey. Unless you wanna go skinny, then Midori/Dillo
[00:53] <stlsaint> or even iceweasel
[00:53] <vandal-> testing seamonkey :)
[00:54] <Unit193> Arora isn't bad, but not really worked on.
[00:54] <Unit193> stlsaint: That's firefox. :P
[00:54] <stlsaint> Unit193: yes but its also less resource hoggish from ff
[00:57] <Unit193> Hmmm.... All that's changed should be the branding, unless you're using Debian Testing.
[00:57] <Viman> and I thought Arora was Firefox's Alpha Channel?
[00:58] <Unit193> There's firefox beta, Aurora, and minefield.
[00:59] <Viman> touche
[01:00] <Viman> vandal-: what you think about Seamonkey?
[01:01] <Unit193> It's a suite, it's heavy. :P
[01:03] <vandal-> all i can say after 5 min is that it works way better than chrome/ff. i'll try other browsers too.
[01:03] <Unit193> Arora isn't being worked on right now, but it's not too bad.
[01:06] <vandal-> i love midoris extremely simple interface
[01:07] <vandal-> but it displays pretty weird fonts - some wide, others thin
[01:12] <vandal-> i'll stay with midori for a while, thanks for help :)
[01:35] <guessst> is this channel right for questions about lubuntu 12.04?
[01:36] <Unit193> Support? No, that'd be #ubuntu+1
[01:37] <guessst> Unit193: ok, thank you
[02:04] <stlsaint> Unit193: hrm, would #ubuntu+1 really be the best place for support of a os that uses a different environment
[02:05] <Unit193> stlsaint: Yes, Kubuntu and Xubuntu also feed pangolin into there.
[02:10] <stlsaint> strange. Doesnt make much sense. I want to know about kubuntu so i go to a ubuntu chat??
[02:12] <Unit193> No, that's the dev version.
[02:12] <hometow1> i have a old computer,512RAM,celeon 2.1G,can it run lubuntu?
[02:13] <Unit193> Should be, just don't expect a brand new computer speed.
[02:17] <hometow1> yesterday,i just install ubuntu11.10,too slowly,haha.
[02:18] <hometow1> sorry for my broken english.
[02:20] <Unit193> Is there a language you know better? They may have a local help channel.
[05:14] <hometow1_> I just installed ubuntu11.10,but it looks slowly.Can i change unity to xfce? how? thx.
[05:15] <holstein> hometow1_: this is for lubuntu... LXDE + ubuntu... you can install XFCE though however you manage packages
[05:16] <holstein> you can install LXDE... you could go with xubuntu-desktop or lubuntu-desktop... its up to you :)
[05:18] <hometow1_> Is lubuntu use LXDE to control the windows? sorry,i think i want to say change to LXDE...
[05:19] <holstein> hometow1_: yup
[05:19] <holstein> sudo apt-get install lubuntu or lubuntu-desktop
[05:19] <holstein> or just search for LXDE and/or lubuntu where ever you manage packages :)
[05:20] <hometow1_> thank you.
[05:20] <hometow1_> i will try.
[10:33] <sacarde> hi
[10:34] <sacarde> is possible to install firefox10 on lubuntu10.04 ?
[11:02] <sacarde> is possible to install firefox10 on lubuntu10.04 ?
[11:21] <CXIV> Lubuntu 11.10 is great!
[11:28] <head_victim> sacarde: yes it's possible it's just a matter of how easy it is
[11:29] <head_victim> CXIV: we like it :)
[11:31] <CXIV> Earlier versions was quite unpolished
[11:31] <CXIV> Were :D
[11:32] <Myrtti> sacarde: as far as I know, 10.04 has firefox 10
[11:32] <head_victim> Myrtti: mine is on 9.0.1
[11:33] <Myrtti> !info firefox lucid
[11:33] <Myrtti> *shrug*
[11:33] <head_victim> I must fail
[11:33]  * head_victim apt-gets an update
[11:34] <CXIV> Firefox lags with 512 ram.
[11:34] <Myrtti> with the caveat that I don't have a lucid system with me here :-|
[11:34] <Myrtti> I can't check myself
[11:34] <head_victim> My main machine tracks LTS's, my VM tracks +1
[11:35] <head_victim> Hm I did have the old firefox-stable ppa that i just disabled and still no 10
[11:35]  * head_victim digs some mroe
[11:42] <head_victim> sacarde: if you have problems getting firefox 10 then I'd suggest using the ppa available here - https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-security/+archive/ppa
[11:42] <head_victim> That gave me 10
[11:43] <head_victim> Despite it meant to be defautl
[12:06] <CXIV> http://www.spreadshirt.nl/t-shirt-zelf-ontwerpen-C59/product/102701494/view/1
[12:07] <Myrtti> that's a bit offtopic for the channel and I'd rather not see that kind of language in the channel either...
[12:09] <CXIV> Myritti Sorry.
[13:11] <pmatulis> is there a way to link a keystroke to popping up the calendar (residing in the panel)?
[13:13] <MrChrisDruif> pmatulis; I think it should be possible
[13:17] <MrChrisDruif> pmatulis; https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/Documentation/FAQ/Guides#I_want_to_bind_a_key_to_lock_my_screen.2C_how_do_I_do_it.3F
[13:17] <MrChrisDruif> It tells you how to bind a key to lock the screen, but you could convert it to your request
[13:18] <pmatulis> MrChrisDruif: i don't think there is a command to pop up the calender (actually called the 'clock' afaik)
[13:18] <MrChrisDruif> pmatulis; why do you think that?
[13:18] <pmatulis> MrChrisDruif: b/c it's already running
[13:19] <MrChrisDruif> When you click it a certain command is cast to the program to pop it up
[13:20] <MrChrisDruif> If you can find that command, you can bind a key to perform the same
[13:21] <MrChrisDruif> So the main problem would be to find the command necessary to pop up the calendar
[17:20] <ace-compaq-nx902> how do I make my pidgin work?
[17:21] <smile4ever> how do you mean? :)
[17:22] <smile4ever> ace-compaq-nx902: you could try to join #pidgin
[17:23] <ace-compaq-nx902> i am new to lubuntu. i am connected to this site though chromium, can't unerstand how to do it though pidgin
[17:25] <kanliot> try xchat-gnome
[17:27] <ace-compaq-nx902> what's xchat-gnome. i'm new to ubuntu an linux too)
[17:27] <kanliot> it's an irc client for chatting in irc channels
[17:27] <kanliot> use synaptic package manager to install it
[17:28] <ace-compaq-nx902> is it like pidgin? do you use xchat-gnome instead?
[17:28] <pcroque> ace-compaq-nx902: I would also recommend xchat (great program), but if you want to use pidgin for IRC, here's a tutorial: http://eclug.homelinux.org/content/view/192/59/
[17:30] <ace-compaq-nx902> thanks for the link. I'll give a try to both of these
[17:54] <freeroute> is it just me or are the speeds of rsyncing an .iso file from one external USB HDD to another just only 12MB/s ?
[17:55] <freeroute> both are 2.5" 5400RPM drives btw
[17:55] <freeroute> also, SATA
[18:22] <vandal-> hey, i am using curently lubuntu on old pc (Pentium IV 1,7GHz, 512 MB RAM). i like lubuntu but it sometimes crashes and i would like to try some other distributions. what would you recommend for such weak pc? i've heard something about puppy, pappermint, damn small linux and some other distributions but i am not sure which choice would be best and whats the difference between them. Can you help me choose one?
[18:28] <pcroque> vandal-: I've tried both puppy and DSL. They were nice and light, but both had package management systems I couldn't get used to. Maybe they've changed though in the last 2 years.
[18:47] <Sentynel> I dunno if they've fixed it - I can't find any indication thereof on google - but last time I looked at Puppy it insisted on running everything as root, which seems to me an utterly baffling design decision and completely put me off the whole distro
[18:48] <Sentynel> dsl is nice, though
[19:30] <freeroute> pcroque & vandal-: you might want to check lupu, it's basically puppy linux with access to the whole Ubuntu repo - http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux/puppy-5.2.8/release-Lucid-528.htm
[19:31] <vandal-> freeroute, just downloaded lupu 5 min ago :)
[19:33] <freeroute> vandal-: awesome timing then :p
[19:55] <freeroute> http://ubuntu-answers.blogspot.com/2011/11/rootunroot-android-under-ubuntu-with.html - this site gets chromium-browser worked up to 100% CPU usage and then crashes. Can some one confirm?
[19:57] <holstein> freeroute: anything trigger it? im looking at it in chrome
[20:13] <pcroque> freeroute: seems to work fine on my system in chromium 16.0.912.77 (Developer Build 118311 Linux) Ubuntu 11.10. No crashes or heavy cpu use.
[20:14] <pcroque> Running Lubuntu 11.10 and updating chromium from the repos.
[20:29] <anarchomarx> i search for composite-manager in lubuntu (lxde-openbox), any ideas?
[20:30] <Unit193> We don't ship one by default as they aren't lightweight at all, but xcompmgr is one.
[20:30] <anarchomarx> ok, thx
[20:34] <Viman> you can activate some lightweight effects by running `xcompmgr -cf`
[20:35] <Viman> although that makes my windows dark for some reason in my box
[20:38] <pcroque> anarchomarx: there's also cairo-compmgr (http://cairo-compmgr.tuxfamily.org/). Worked OK on my system, but I decided I didn't need it.
[20:40] <anarchomarx> pcroque: i need it for ardesia at work :/
[20:41] <Viman> a compositing manager? for work?
[20:41] <Viman> deffly get xcompmgr
[21:12] <Unit193> Finally looked it up, and there were a few requests for xcompmgr, here's one with some config http://pastebin.com/xM0jjH9D
[21:25] <chorgox_> googd night everyone
[21:25] <pAt_> good night chorgox_
[21:25] <chorgox_> I been using lubuntu in my netbook running 11.04 but now i reinstaled 10.04 is it possible run lubuntu in that one?
[21:28] <Unit193> chorgox_: Specs?
[21:29] <chorgox_> is a "normal" netbook samsung n130 atom 270 1.6 mhz 1GB ram
[21:30] <Unit193> I've run 11.10 on worse, so I wouldn't see why not.
[21:31] <chorgox_> i do have a old pIII 1ghz 512ram in the kitchen "running" if you can say that lol but is about wich version of lubuntu would perform better?
[21:32] <chorgox_> I mean in winlol you know that xp would perform better than vista or w7 but in ubuntu i m not sure yet
[21:33] <Unit193> Well, Lubuntu doesn't have LTS's in the normal sense, LXDE doesn't get backported as it has a very low amount of devs.
[21:33]  * Unit193 Celeron 500MHz, 512M ram
[21:35] <anarchomarx> Unit193: special thx. xcompmgr works fine and i can activate this, when i need it.
[21:35] <Unit193> [16:12:32] < Unit193> Finally looked it up, and there were a few requests for xcompmgr, here's one with some config  http://pastebin.com/xM0jjH9D
[21:35] <pAt__> I run lubuntu on a dual core 2.8 Ghz with 4gb ram :D
[21:35] <Unit193> anarchomarx: Glad it helped.
[21:36] <Unit193> pAt__: Shhh, you're mean. ;)
[21:37] <pAt__> Its not only for old hardware :)
[21:39] <chorgox_> i kind of like unity in my dual-core but in my netbook is a bit overkill me thinks
[21:40] <pAt__> My netbook runs with lmde with xfce like hell :)
[21:41] <chorgox_> sorry for being a noob but what is lmde ?
[21:42] <Unit193> It's "Linux Mint Debian Edition", not quite a support issue here.
[21:42] <pAt__> No prob chorgox. Lmde is linux mint debian edition
[21:43] <pAt__> Yes you are right unit193. Forgot we are in a support channel.
[21:44] <chorgox_> never tried mint, even though lot's of people recomend it.
[21:44] <chorgox_>  what I like of netbook remix is that with a crappy touchpad big icons make sense, but at the same time the performance of xfce is great
[21:44] <Flazer> i looked at it, as well as fedora briefly, but lubuntu fit my tastes better
[21:45] <phillw> wxl: ping.
[21:46] <pAt__> Lubuntu also runs well on a netbook
[21:47] <chorgox_> never mint if is ubuntu / puppy  or fedora. linux was the best thingh that happen in my netbook
[21:47] <chorgox_> just sometimes wifi work "funny" and i need to restart my computer until it works
[21:48] <chorgox_> shame sometimes does that when im showing off "linux" to my friends :S
[21:48] <pAt__> :)
[21:49] <chorgox_> I guess one day i would understand how linux loads drivers and stuff and i will solve
[21:50] <chorgox_> or get a acer primus lol
[21:50] <Flazer> yeah i'm using my netbook now
[21:50] <chorgox_> or ehatever is called the one w/keyboard
[21:50] <Flazer> lubuntu worked the best on it
[21:51] <Flazer> better than xubuntu
[21:51] <pAt__> I am on my android right now :D
[21:52] <chorgox_> I agree with flazer xubuntu did not make any difference
[21:52] <Flazer> yeah, it was too clunky, just like vanilla ubuntu or kubuntu
[21:52] <Flazer> the gui was too heavy i guess
[21:52] <Flazer> at least for my particluar machine
[21:52] <chorgox_> pAt__  are you running lubuntu in your G1?
[21:52] <pAt__> G1?
[21:52] <chorgox_> android g1 that relic
[21:54] <pAt__> Nah. I am running android on my samsung smartphone. There i am using an irc client now
[21:55] <Flazer> i wonder if anyone has put Lubuntu on a cr-48
[21:57] <Unit193> Might want to wander over to #lubuntu-offtopic though.
[21:59] <Flazer> yeah, just realized we've drifted
[21:59] <chorgox_> does lubuntu would have an impact on battery life comapred with vainilla ubuntu ?
[22:00] <Flazer> not sure, as my experience with portables has been limited to just lubuntu
[22:01] <Flazer> but i would expect, since it's geared to use less resources, it should have slightly better battery life than vanilla ubuntu
[22:03] <chorgox_> when i running xp (hardly ever) on my netbook there is like different "modes" that would give me more battery there is any aplication or somenthing simillar in lubuntu ?
[22:04] <Unit193> Well, you should be able to dim the screen and the lower usage of LXDE when you compare to Unity should save on the battery a little.
[22:07] <Flazer> when i right click on the power information in the system tray in lubuntu, i can change power "modes" also
[22:07] <chorgox_> there is a way to tell the procesor to slow down or i don't know stop some services to save some clock cycles?
 when i right click on the power information in the system tray in lubuntu, i can change power "modes" also [ HOW?]
[22:09] <Flazer> in your system tray, do you have the battery icon? I'm assuming you're on a notebook of some kind?
[22:09] <chorgox_> yep
[22:09] <Flazer> if you right click on the icon...what are your options?
[22:09] <chorgox_> let me turn that on
[22:10] <Flazer> were you getting that strange bug when waking from sleep with the taksbars? which was related to the battery icon?
[22:10] <chorgox_> well im running netbook 10.04 (not lubuntu yet) does make a difference ?
[22:11] <Flazer> possibly
[22:11] <Flazer> i'm on 11.10
[22:11] <Flazer> you're running vanilla?
[22:13] <chorgox_> yeah kind of is the netbook remix but is vainilla ubuntu i guess
[22:13] <chorgox_> im going to try to add lubuntu
[22:14] <Flazer> yeah, i'm looking but don't see the same kind of preferences for that version
[22:14] <Flazer> i can only speak to 11.10 lubuntu, since i'm currently running that
[22:14] <Flazer> i would probably suggest doing a clean install if you can, rather than "adding" lubuntu to your current distro, unless you're going to make a separate boot partition
[22:15] <Flazer> just make the live usb, and choose "replace ubuntu" when you have the option
[22:15] <Flazer> less chance for bugs I think
[22:15] <chorgox_> ^-- why ???
[22:17] <Flazer> for a cleaner install, you can try to just "upgrade" or add lubuntu
[22:17] <Flazer> but if you run into problems, it may just be a corrupt installation, you can always go back and do the step i suggested anyway
[22:18] <Flazer> matter of preference more than anything really
[22:18] <Flazer> others may have different advice
[22:18] <chorgox_> well im a noob and i like to do my own t5hingh until i get in problems and i run to forums asking for help
[22:20] <Flazer> lol
[22:20] <Flazer> that's the great part about this place
[22:20] <chorgox_> installing now, so get ready lol
[22:22] <chorgox_> default display manager (gdm) (lxdm)
[22:22] <chorgox_> i guess is lxdm the best one
[22:34] <chorgox_> yeahh is working
[22:34] <Flazer> sweet
[22:38] <chorgox_> ok now atm i don't have any "battery indicator"  i guess I need to add the thinghy "applets" or somenthing like that ?
[22:49] <awkisopen> Hello friends! I'm trying to install Lubuntu on my netbook, but the font size is so ENORMOUS that I can't see the buttons at the bottom of the second dialogue!
[22:49] <awkisopen> The netbook's resolution is 1280x768 or something to that effect, so believe me when I say the fonts are huuuuuuge.
[22:50] <awkisopen> same thing when I try to run it off the LiveCD, but the funny thing is, when I go to Preferences -> Configure OpenBox, it tells me the font is 11px! 11px? it looks at least 30!
[23:00] <chorgox_> well i guess somenthing need to get "weird" if you don't get a "fresh instalation" lol , how i can tell lubuntu that i want "lubuntu" as my default desktop etc etc..
[23:05] <awkisopen> you mean you want it to be the default setting in your boot manager?
[23:06] <chorgox_> thnx awkisopen i found it .. !!!
[23:09] <chorgox_> wow i have the weidest thingh happening  right now my menu bar is changing colours like "blinking" lol
[23:11] <chorgox_> is like if someone would click to focus in the windows and click outside of the windows . like 100 times per second.
[23:13] <awkisopen> apparently most people have the opposite problem I'm having - the fonts are too small
[23:30] <awkisopen> I attempted the xrandr DPI solution I found in some of the forums, but running the command failed
[23:30] <awkisopen> why does Ubuntu get my font sizes right, but Lubuntu does not?


[00:03] <bazhang> doing that in multiple channels, network wide
[00:04] <phunyguy> kicked.
[01:09] <rww> i like the part where he's not forwarded and still does that ^
[01:15] <IdleOne> well now it can either be his client that is auto joining previously joined channels. I remember there used to be a client that had a setting like that. afaik xchat/hexchat doesn't.
[01:15] <IdleOne> or he is doing it on purpose
[05:48] <chu> Oh my, I've never seen you react like that Flannel :o
[05:48] <Flannel> chu: I'm good.    So come back tomorrow, and I will remove the ban.  :)
[13:38] <OERIAS> You personally?
[13:39] <phunyguy> I will most likely be here, so yes.  I think a day with an angry mother should help you understand why you can't be rude in these channels.
[13:39] <OERIAS> Hahah, you got me their
[13:39] <OERIAS> Yes I learned my lesson
[13:40] <phunyguy> so please part the channel for now, and come back in 24 hours.
[13:40] <OERIAS> Thank you.
[16:44] <DJones> Jeez, icesword again
[16:49] <bazhang> more love
 can ubuntu hack wifi?
[19:04] <bazhang> free vpn plz
[21:52] <Mrayntwo> !ops
[22:13] <rww> OERIAS: Howdy. How can we help?
[22:14] <OERIAS> auto log on, bye
[22:14] <rww> 22:12:56 < OERIAS> ?join #ubuntu-ops
[22:14] <rww> uh huh.
[22:15] <rww> IdleOne: OERIAS is back ^
[22:15] <rww> i gather from BT that you failed to set his ban for 7 days :P
[22:16] <rww> (unless you were talking about them earlier, in which case lol ubottu)
[22:58] <IdleOne> I've decided to not try to understand the what and why
[23:14] <rww> lol


[01:16] <zhangchao> Hi, release team, Help: we want to update some packages for Wily Beta 2 of Ubuntu Kylin. package have be uploaded by aron , but needs approval from release team.
[01:49] <infinity> zhangchao1: I assume the two with "kylin" in the name?
[01:53] <zhangchao1> infinity: package name :ubuntu-kylin-software-center,ubuntukylin-default-settings ,ubuntukylin-wallpaper
[01:53] <infinity> zhangchao1: That Z99-zip-gbk.sh is pretty sketchy shell. :P
[01:54] <infinity> zhangchao1: I think what you wanted there to avoid all the crazy forks was "case $LANGUAGE in; zh_CN*) do stuff;; esac"
[02:00] <zhangchao1> infinity: We want to take effect when $LANGUAGE contains zh_CN
[02:00] <infinity> zhangchao1: Yes, I know.  I'm questioning the use of "echo | grep" there. :)
[02:02] <infinity> zhangchao1: This would have the same effect with 90% less crazy: http://paste.ubuntu.com/12537803/
[02:03] <infinity> zhangchao1: And the added bonus of being extensible more easily to other locales, if you decide zh_CH isn't the only one this should apply to.
[02:08] <zhangchao1> Z99-zip-gbk.sh is  sketchy,we will fix it after beta2
[02:08] <zhangchao1> yes, only zh_CH is not enough.
[02:09] <infinity> zhangchao1: If you're going to commit to fixing it after the beta, I'll let it in, but do promise it'll be sorted. :P
[02:09] <infinity> Not that I run kylin, but if I did, I'd be horrified reading that. ;)
[02:12] <zhangchao1> infinity: Sure,we will fix that  as soon as possible after beta2.
[02:18] <infinity> Alright, so I'm letting the kernel in, and those kylin bits, then respinning the world, and this should be the last spin of beta2.
[02:18] <infinity> May the rest of our bugs be vaguely not critical.
[02:24] <zhangchao1> infinity: ok, thank you for your help
[04:02] <infinity> wxl: Sorry, I know lubuntu got marked ready, but I had to respin the world just once.  If you guys can lightly test the new ISOs to make sure they still boot and such, that would be nice.
[04:06] <amjjawad> Hello infinity, any idea about this bug 1462688?
[04:07] <amjjawad> infinity, for my testing, I can finish the installation normally by clicking "continue anyway" and it works. It seems some other people are having problems with that and some other can't see it. It's alive even before beta 1
[04:14] <infinity> cyphermox: ^
[04:14] <cyphermox> oh, that's new
[04:16] <cyphermox> (well, not really, but hey)
[04:16] <cyphermox> amjjawad: what timezone did you pick?
[04:17] <amjjawad> hi cyphermox, I see it 'before' selecting anytime zone. And, when I choose "continue anyway", everything is fine after that and my installation did not crash.
[04:17] <cyphermox> I already did some of the work to add the zone bits for Pyongyang time but it was still incomplete, and no matter what I did I couldn't reproduce the crash
[04:17] <cyphermox> amjjawad: did you have a network connection when you did the install?
[04:17] <cyphermox> in case that changes anything
[04:17] <amjjawad> cyphermox, yes, I am on +10GMT
[04:18] <amjjawad> cyphermox, testing actually on Oracle Virtualbox 5.0.2
[04:18] <cyphermox> oh, but I mean, were you online, as detected by ubiquity at the beginning?
[04:19] <amjjawad> cyphermox, Oracle Virtualbox will use your connection no matter what it is. So yes, I am connected to the internet or to be more accurate, the virtual machine is connected to the internet and my time zone is +10 gmt
[04:19] <cyphermox> ok
[04:19] <cyphermox> thanks. this might make a difference
[04:19] <amjjawad> cyphermox, you're welcome. From your Q, I assume the crash will happen when the machine is offline?!
[04:19] <ianorlin> cyphermox: would trying to reproduce this in a kvm vm be helpful?
[04:20] <cyphermox> ianorlin: of course
[04:20] <cyphermox> I tried already, couldn't find what to do to make it show up
[04:20] <cyphermox> I would never get the crash, but picking the north korea timezone also wasn't completely reacting properly.
[04:21] <cyphermox> amjjawad: I wonder if it might *not* happen if the machine is offline.
[04:21] <cyphermox> in case it has anything to do with the codepaths when the timezone is automatically detected
[04:22] <amjjawad> cyphermox, do you want me to test it while the machine is offline?
[04:23] <cyphermox> up to you
[04:23] <cyphermox> I'll get back to this in the morning, it's getting pretty late to dig in ubiquity :)
[04:23] <amjjawad> once the new builds for Ubuntu GNOME are ready, I'll try that and see what will happen :)
[04:24] <amjjawad> It's 14:23 here but I know it's totally different on the other part of the world :)
[04:25] <cyphermox> yes, it's past midnight here
[04:25] <cyphermox> I've been trying to fix the modemmanager upgrade bug
[04:32] <amjjawad> get some rest cyphermox and thanks a lot for all your hard work :)
[04:33] <cyphermox> amjjawad: ianorlin: if you manage to reproduce it, it would be great if you could add a traceback to the bug
[04:33] <cyphermox> running ubiquity with --debug might help there.
[04:34] <ianorlin> although think I might be one of the last people on lubuntu QA team awake at this time
[04:35] <amjjawad> cyphermox, will try to remember that. Just open the Terminal and type ubiquity --debug ?
[04:35] <cyphermox> yeah, that would start ubiquity, with debugging enabled
[04:36] <amjjawad> cyphermox, but that means I need to use that while I choose "try without installation", correct? AFAIK, I can't use that while choosing "Install" option ..
[04:36] <cyphermox> correct
[04:36] <cyphermox> to use the straight install, you'd need to hit F6 and add "debug-ubiquity" on the command-line
[04:36] <amjjawad> cyphermox, perfect, I'll do that and update the bug report in case I'll find anything new
[04:49] <cyphermox> amjjawad: you're not in Papua New Guinea by any chance?
[05:16] <cyphermox> amjjawad: ianorlin: if you manage to reproduce, I'd be interested if you could modify ./usr/lib/ubiquity/tzsetup/post-base-installer to add a 'set -x' near the top and go back/forward again in the installer to get the crash to happen again (hopefully), then add syslog to the bug report
[05:16] <cyphermox> that could confirm what I think this is
[05:17] <cyphermox> and on that, I'm going to bed ;)
[05:58] <ianorlin> cyphermox: I can't reproduce it installing to my laptop on bare metal and I think I might be the only one still awake on the lubuntu QA team
[06:17] <amjjawad> ianorlin, are you awake still?
[06:18] <amjjawad> ianorlin, cyphermox turning off the network connection did the trick. I no longer see the error message and I can now select the timezone from the world map :)
[06:18] <ianorlin> yes I am still awake
[07:08] <flocculant> seb128: upgraded with image - if people want me to do the same with upgrade-manager then I will, but it'll not be today - most interested today in B2 for us
[07:08] <seb128> flocculant, with "image"?
[07:09] <seb128> from a livecd/with ubiquity you mean?
[07:09] <flocculant> yeas
[07:09] <seb128> oh, then it might be the same user-setup bug than the new install one
[07:09] <seb128> sorry, when you said upgrade for me it was dist-upgrader/update-manager
[07:10] <seb128> which is why I though it was weird
[07:10] <flocculant> seb128: that's what I thought too - so I have managed to find time this morning to run through with updated wily image
[07:10] <flocculant> just waiting for it to finish the upgrade now
[07:11] <seb128> flocculant, thanks
[07:21] <flocculant> seb128: ok - so upgrading with new livecd - autologin works
[07:22] <seb128> flocculant, great, bug fixed then, thanks for testing
[07:22] <flocculant> commented on bug
[07:23] <flocculant> seb128: I've got to do some upgrade testing anyway - so I'll autologin test while doing the update-manager test
[07:24] <seb128> thanks
[07:36] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, I've also tried to reproduce the ubi-timezone issue.
[07:36] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, People are reported the issue but I've never been able to reproduce it regardless of whether I have a connection or not.
[07:39] <ianorlin> I did several installs on my laptop and virt-manger did not reproduce ubi-timezone
[09:58] <flocculant> seb128: not sure re autologin - upgrade crashed with modemmanager problems
[09:59] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, hi :) still can't produce that bug?!
[09:59] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, Which bug?
[10:00] <amjjawad> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1462688
[10:00] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I've never encountered it.
[10:00] <flexiondotorg> Not since 14.10 anyway.
[10:00] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, interesting. I wounder why :D
[10:01] <amjjawad> are you testing Ubuntu MATE only?
[10:02] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I think it might be linked to the geographical location that is detected.
[10:02] <flexiondotorg> I have test Xubuntu and stock Ubuntu.
[10:02] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, I see. Could be.
[10:02] <flexiondotorg> Because Xubuntu, Ubuntu and Ubuntu MATE all use lightdm and there was a regression there which is now fixed.
[10:03] <flexiondotorg> I'll grab Ubuntu GNOME as try it.
[10:03] <flexiondotorg> I have the time.
[10:03] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, that's so kind of you :) you might want to check the comments I posted on that bug
[10:04] <flocculant> seb128:  ok so - got in, got wily, it does autologin following upgrade-manager, lightdm conf still has [SeatDefaults] rather than [Seat:*] - not sure if that needs reporting or not
[10:04] <seb128> flocculant, no, it doesn't, we don't have code migrating configs, but lightdm understands the old format for compatibility reasons
[10:05] <flocculant> ok cool - so it looks like green for upgrades then :)
[10:05] <flocculant> at least with this issue
[10:05] <flexiondotorg> Woo!
[10:33] <davmor2> flocculant: not for me modemmanager still broke it I had to run dpkg --configure -a to fix the install
[10:34] <davmor2> auto-login however works fine now :)
[10:35] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I've read the bug.
[10:42] <flexiondotorg> amjjawad, I can't reproduce in Ubuntu GNOME either.
[10:56] <flocculant> davmor2: yea - that's what the comment at 10:58 says - the 11:05 ones are about autologin :)
[11:03] <amjjawad> flexiondotorg, really weird. Thanks for the feedback
[11:06] <flocculant> ftr - someone sees that timezone issue in xubuntu - I can't reproduce either
[13:38] <cyphermox> flexiondotorg: I'm not surprised you can't reproduce it, I think it's very specific to what timezone you'll get from NTP or what timezone you might pick. probably just the former
[13:38] <flexiondotorg> cyphermox, I've tried manually changing my time zone to that of people who reported problems.
[13:39] <flexiondotorg> Still couldn't make it fail.
[13:39] <cyphermox> right
[13:40] <cyphermox> flexiondotorg: I think what I'll do is upload a version of ubiquity which gives me more data.
[15:54] <rcj> infinity, cloud images are ready for beta 2
[16:14] <wxl> thanks we're on it already infinity :) about ready to mark ready
[16:16] <wxl> and ready
[16:55] <infinity> wxl: I'm guessing from the complete lack of registered tests that lubuntu/ppc isn't being released?
[16:55] <wxl> infinity: that's correct
[17:00] <Riddell> kubuntu good to go, mparillo about if you need someone to ping, I'm wandering out
[17:03] <rtg> ogra_, re-re-re-uploaded raspi2 after getting slapped by infinity for removing the tools packages.
[17:05] <ogra_> rtg, tell infinity i'll slap him for slapping you after he disabled snappy builds for two days (and everyone was wondering why the things didnt land :P )
[17:06] <rtg> whoa, I'm staying out of that one.
[17:06] <ogra_> but instead of slapping each other we all should just have beer at the next sprint ;)
[17:07] <cjwatson> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s
[17:07] <ogra_> LOL
[17:08] <rtg> :)
[17:33] <infinity> ogra_: Sorry about that.  Overzealous application of #
[17:33] <ogra_> :)
[17:33] <ogra_> no worries
[17:45] <rcj> infinity, I'm going to be away for an hour or so, but cloud images are currently ready to begin publication when we get the go ahead.
[17:45] <kgunn> hey guys, i've got a bit of a conundrum, so we like dual landing our projects, and we're hoping to get some hot fixes landed for OTA7
[17:45] <kgunn> however got into situation where, we release a mir/u-s-c, it got promoted in vivid+o but stuck in UNAPPROVED for wily
[17:46] <kgunn> and so, aiui, that prevents us from force merging what will-be-released back
[17:47] <kgunn> preventing us from landing any further changes, and i have a specific critical bug fix associated with u-s-c
[17:48] <kgunn> and also aiui, once wily beta is curated, u-s-c will move to proposed - can someone confirm? and provide estimate?
[18:00]  * kgunn listens to crickets
[18:12] <infinity> kgunn: I'll accept mir shortly, once beta2's ducks are all in a row.
[18:13] <kgunn> infinity: cool, and then it'll just sit in proposed? or actually flow all the way thru ?
[18:13] <infinity> kgunn: That's up to autopktesting, but it'll migrate the way it usually does, nothing special is blocking it.
[18:13] <kgunn> ah, got it, thanks infinity
[18:20] <infinity> rtg:
[18:20] <infinity> -Vcs-Git: git://kernel.ubuntu.com/ubunt/ubuntu-wily-meta.git raspi2
[18:20] <infinity> +Vcs-Git: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git-repos/ppisati/ubuntu-RELEASE_NAME-meta.git raspi2
[18:20] <infinity> rtg: ^-- unintentional?
[18:29] <doko> would somebody mind if I still do the netcdf 4 transition? then I don't have to do it next cycle
[18:38] <infinity> doko: netcdf 4 is already in wily.  Is it half-transitioned or something?
[18:38] <doko> no, I mean 4.4
[18:38] <infinity> Ahh, that makes more sense.
[18:40] <rtg> infinity, ah, yeah. they came back with the revert. I'll fix it for the next upload.
[18:41] <infinity> doko: The only things that jump out as being potentially scary in rdeps are vtk and gdal.  Is this transition all done in Debian already?
[18:41] <doko> it's in testing
[18:41] <infinity> doko: If so, and if there's some alrightish test coverage (automated or manual), seems fine to me to go for it.
[18:57] <davmor2> infinity: image still seems to have wubi on it should that not be removed now?
[19:00] <doko> infinity, are you able to accept #1499075 for trusty-proposed?
[19:06] <infinity> davmor2: I'm not sure we ever made a formal decision on the future of wubi.exe.  Last few times it came up, it was pointed out that it's also the pretty autorun when you stick it in a Windows machine, but I'm not sure how much that matters anymore.
[19:06] <infinity> davmor2: Not fixing for beta2 anyway, but we should sort out WTF we want to do there before final.
[19:07] <davmor2> infinity: in windows 7 + I'm not sure it autoruns like it did in previous versions I'll have a look in windows 10 and 7 and see if I am right
[19:08] <infinity> davmor2: Yeah, I think in 7+ (or maybe vista+), it just pops the "what do you want me to do with this?" dialog instead of autorunning the GUI.
[19:08] <infinity> davmor2: I think.
[19:08] <infinity> davmor2: Which makes the autorun argument a lot less valid.
[19:09] <davmor2> infinity: yeah and that stops the autorun from actually running I will confirm though
[19:14] <davmor2> infinity: hahahahahahahahaha windows 10 just says You need to format the disk in dive i: before you can use it :D
[19:15] <infinity> davmor2: Brilliant.
[19:15] <davmor2> infinity: that is on i386
[19:16] <infinity> davmor2: It might behave slightly better with optical media, rather than a USB stick, but maybe not.
[19:16] <flexiondotorg> Ugh, backlog on another logged in workstation.
[19:17] <flexiondotorg> infinity, How is the status of Beta2?
[19:17] <davmor2> infinity: amd 64 it just opens the EFI folder  will check cd's in a second
[19:17] <infinity> davmor2: Hah.  That's a little bit insane.  Go Windows.
[19:18] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Looks like everything's readyish on the tracker, just need to publish images, sort out paperwork, etc.
[19:18] <davmor2> infinity: the EFI in fat though right so it knows how to open that bit
[19:19] <infinity> davmor2: Right, it's not entirely unexpected behaviour, just a bit hilariously useless.
[19:19]  * infinity might go hide in a hotel room to finish up this beta.
[19:24] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Where are you and why do I keep seeing reference to hiding in a hotel room? ;-)
[19:28] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: linaro connect iirc from the other day
[19:38] <davmor2> infinity: on dvd once you force the autorun to work you don't have the menu just the installer part of wubi which we definitely don't want
[19:43] <flexiondotorg> davmor2, ty
[19:45] <infinity> davmor2: Right, let's pick this conversation up after beta, then, but I think removing it is probably the right thing.
[19:45] <davmor2> infinity: On windows 7 I'm getting pretty much the same thing, usb pendrives except the EFI partition are no able to run, and dvd triggers the installer not the documentation and menu
[19:48] <jibel> davmor2, I'd vote to remove it unless someone is motivated to take over the maintenance. Can you file a bug so we don't forget before to address this topic before the release
[19:48] <jibel> -before
[19:48] <davmor2> jibel: I thought there already was one let me check
[19:48] <jibel> I couldn't find it
[19:52] <flocculant> there was a discussion about this on the -dev m/l
[19:52] <flocculant> bug 1471344 on there
[19:53] <infinity> bdmurray: Didn't I reject that apport upload a day or two ago?
[19:54] <infinity> bdmurray: Oh, or is this based on the security update we weren't stomping on?
[19:54] <infinity> bdmurray: Indeed it is.
[19:55] <jibel> flocculant, right, but I don't remember any conclusion and no one really stepped up to maintain it.
[19:55]  * flocculant neither
[19:56] <davmor2> jibel, infinity: https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/1499515
[19:59] <davmor2> flocculant: thanks I couldn't find that
[20:00] <flocculant> welcome - only remembered cos I saw the thread while looking for something else the other day :)
[20:01] <flexiondotorg> Misses Laney doing the release because I'd be in the pub by now ;-)
[20:01] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Hah.
[20:02] <flexiondotorg> ;-)
[20:02] <infinity> flexiondotorg: No one's stopping you from being in the pub. ;)
[20:02] <flexiondotorg> No wifi in the pub.
[20:02] <flexiondotorg> Rural England.
[20:02] <flocculant> \o/
[20:02] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: move to urban england
[20:03] <wxl> i'm nervous all the flavors are ready but not ubuntu proper. um, we're not going to have another massive respin are we?
[20:03] <infinity> flexiondotorg: If you want it to go faster, you could do me a favour and copypasta VividVervet/ReleaseNotes to WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes and edit all the numbers and delete the bits that aren't relevant. ;)
[20:03] <infinity> wxl: Nah, just that no one's marked it.  I'll do so before I release.
[20:03] <wxl> infinity: ok, cool. just checking. take your time on release notes and what have you then ;)
[20:03] <flocculant> flexiondotorg: and if you do - could you remember that Xubuntu has nothing to do with Mate ... ;)
[20:05] <flexiondotorg> flocculant, Thank you.
[20:05] <flexiondotorg> Just about to eat.
[20:05] <flocculant> :D
[20:05] <flexiondotorg> I'll check the relnote after my roast beef :-)
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> davmor2, Urban. No thank you :-)
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Seriously. I am about to eat. I'll check the notes in a sec.
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> Not a sec.
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> After eaating.
[20:06] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: then stop grumbling about your pub :P
[20:06] <flexiondotorg> I'm not grumbling.
[20:07] <flexiondotorg> My house is connected to the Internet via shortwave radio.
[20:07] <flexiondotorg> The pub is not.
[20:07] <flexiondotorg> Perfect solitude and lots of whiskey.
[20:08] <davmor2> flexiondotorg: that's kinda like me at the weekend mifi in the caravan in the middle of nowhere
[20:08] <flexiondotorg> :-)
[20:11] <oSoMoN> hi release team
[20:11] <oSoMoN> could someone ack the webbrowser-app sync that is sitting in the unapproved queue, please?
[20:12] <infinity> oSoMoN: Shortly.
[20:12] <oSoMoN> infinity, thanks
[20:12] <jibel> davmor2, if can you had the issues you found to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes#Known_issues ?
[20:13] <jibel> davmor2, or give me the bug # (again) I'll update the notes
[20:15] <davmor2> jibel: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bcmwl/+bug/1498074 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/modemmanager/+bug/1481798 (upgrades only) https://bugs.launchpad.net/dell-sputnik/+bug/1499323 https://bugs.launchpad.net/wubi/+bug/1499515
[20:20] <flocculant> jibel: if you're editing that still - Xubuntu notes are at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/Beta2/Xubuntu
[20:25] <jibel> flocculant, yup, I updates the links to the release notes of the flavors
[20:25] <jibel> davmor2, is bug 1499323 specific to the XPS or all EFI systems?
[20:26] <davmor2> jibel: Dell for sure, it didn't effect mac or my other laptop, but has effected my asus main pc before now
[20:35] <jibel> infinity, release notes for wily created. I updated the 'known issues' but the 'new features' section is completely irrelevant for wily
[20:37] <flexiondotorg> infinity, You still need those relnotes editting?
[20:40] <jibel> flexiondotorg, it's there https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes , download links are wrong and new features too
[20:41] <flexiondotorg> Yeah, I spotted that.
[20:41] <flexiondotorg> jibel, Thanks for the link.
[20:41] <flexiondotorg> Umm, OK.
[20:42] <jibel> flexiondotorg, I'm fixing the download links
[20:42] <flexiondotorg> jibel, Cool.
[20:42] <flexiondotorg> So, it is the new features bit then,
[20:42] <flexiondotorg> Tricky.
[20:43] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Are these release notes intended for Beta 2? Will there be an RC?
[20:45] <flexiondotorg> I'll be bck in a bit.
[20:45] <flexiondotorg> Just need to eplain to the family I'm going to be absent for a bit...
[21:00] <infinity> flexiondotorg: The release notes carry forward all the way to release.  We just add/remove bits as necessary.
[21:12] <flexiondotorg> Back.
[21:13] <flexiondotorg> jibel, You still here?
[21:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VividUpgrades could use the same treatment.  Having a heck of a time even logging in over this connection.
[21:17] <infinity> jibel: ^-- Do you know who has ACLs to add WilyUpgrades to help.u.c?
[21:17] <infinity> davmor2: ^
[21:18] <infinity> balloons: ^
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I'm going to start on the release notes now.
[21:20] <flexiondotorg> I might have to trim them way back.
[21:20] <infinity> flexiondotorg: My usual tact is "fix all the URLs and version references" and then "empty out the sections where everytihng is a lie now".
[21:21]  * flexiondotorg purges the lies
[21:21] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Don't delete sections or anything, just empty out content that's irrelevant, leaving a skeleton behind.
[21:24] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I'm giving myself a hard deadline of 90m from now to finish this up, since there's a session I need to attend then.  So, if you don't mind a midnight beer, you might sneak one in. :P
[21:24] <infinity> flexiondotorg: (Not that you have to be around for the release, mind you, except if you're trying to time an announcement to match mine or something)
[21:25]  * flexiondotorg is doing his best to help :-)
[21:25]  * flexiondotorg has wine
[21:25] <jibel> infinity, I don't know and it doesn't let me in
[21:26] <jibel> infinity, apparently I can edit it
[21:31] <jibel> infinity, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WilyUpgrades
[21:33] <jibel> flexiondotorg, in doubt comment the content instead of deleting it
[21:33] <flexiondotorg> jibel, OK.
[21:34] <flexiondotorg> jibel, What comment syntax does this wiki support?
[21:34] <jibel> flexiondotorg, cannot remember, I usually use the link to the help under the edit area
[21:35] <infinity> jibel: Brilliant, thanks.
[21:51] <flexiondotorg> jibel, infinity I have no idea if someof the stuff I'm commenting out is genuine or not.
[21:54] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Meh, just wing it.  We can clean up before final.
[21:54] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Nearly done.
[21:56] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Mentioning the ubi-timezone crasher in known issues might be nice.  Not sure if anything else is so horribly user-face that it's worth adding.
[21:57] <infinity> launchpad.net/bugs/1462688
[21:57] <flexiondotorg> wilco
[21:58] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Apparently, the suspected workaround is to install without a network connected.
[21:59] <flexiondotorg> ANd click continue anyway
[22:00] <balloons> infinity, I don't know who has perms to update help.u.c
[22:00] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Yeah, evidently "just click continue" doesn't work on all flavours, hence the "don't have a network at all to avoid the crash" thing.
[22:00] <infinity> balloons: Evidently, jibel does. ;)
[22:00] <infinity> balloons: I might, but SSO kept timing out, so I have no idea.
[22:00] <flexiondotorg> ack
[22:00] <balloons> ahh
[22:08] <flexiondotorg> infinity, jibel Cast an eye over this - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseNotes
[22:10] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Indentation error in the boot/install section.
[22:10] <infinity> flexiondotorg: (the usb-creator bug became a sub-clause of the previous one)
[22:11] <popey> compiz not bold
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> popey, Edits welcome.
[22:11] <popey> kk,
[22:11]  * popey edits
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> popey, Please do refine the mark up.
[22:11] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Generally looks fine, though.  Thanks.
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> I hacked through that very quickly.
[22:11] <popey> sure, np
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Least I could do.
[22:11] <flexiondotorg> I owe you :-)
[22:12]  * infinity waits for his case of cider in the mail.
[22:12] <flexiondotorg> I may have commented out some legit stuff but I have not way of knowing for sure.
[22:13] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Lots more eyes will go over it between beta and release, so we'll get it better.
[22:13] <flexiondotorg> infinity, If/when I do the community round up in the future I'll have them update that as we go.
[22:14] <flexiondotorg> Because we can get a decent first draft that way.
[22:14] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Yeah, it would be ideal to create it on the first Alpha and go from there.
[22:14]  * flexiondotorg nods
[22:14]  * flexiondotorg get more wine.
[22:14]  * popey stops editing
[22:14] <popey> ooh, one more
[22:14] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Which is more or less what we did when Ubuntu participated in Alphas, but then we stopped. :P
[22:14]  * flexiondotorg refreshes
[22:15] <popey> flexiondotorg: and again
[22:15] <flexiondotorg> ack
[22:15] <infinity> I'd still prefer talking flavours out of doing more milestones than they need, but I understand the argument that for smaller flavors, milestones are their only rallying point for cadenced testing, so it's hard to get rid of them.
[22:16] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Yeah, it's tricky.
[22:16] <flexiondotorg> I got some excellent feedback in alpha1/2 I missed myself.
[22:17] <flexiondotorg> That is a discussion for another day.
[22:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: See, if I ran a flavour, I *think* what I'd do is let some tech lead declare "this week, our flavour looks alright, so this week's dailies, our goal is to test and drive the bugs to 0".
[22:17] <flexiondotorg> Anything else I can do to help?
[22:17] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Repeat process a couple of times between open and final.
[22:18] <flexiondotorg> infinity, That's a nice idea. But having hard deadlines focuses the volunteers.
[22:18] <flexiondotorg> So, what else?
[22:18] <infinity> flexiondotorg: alphas and betas basically do that, but with the added annoyance of also releasing a "blessed" image, which I think is a mistake.  Cause then people install from that image for the next month, instead of using dailies that are probably better. :P
[22:18] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I think we're basically good.  I'm polishing up the mechanical publishing bits, then I copy and waste last cycle's release accounce, and we're off.
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> I'm going to drain this bottle of wine soon and my usefulness will significantly diminish ;-
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> infinity, You mean the Beta 2 release announcement?
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> You want to reuse?
[22:19] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I always reuse them.  I'm lazy. :P
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> Sorry, reuse Beta 1 annouce
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> OK.
[22:19] <flexiondotorg> I made some typos.
[22:19] <infinity> flexiondotorg: No, no.  I reuse Beta 2 from last cycle.
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> OK. Good.
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> My errors are not there.
[22:20] <infinity> flexiondotorg: With minor editing, of course.
[22:20] <flexiondotorg> popey, Thanks for pitching in.
[22:20] <popey> np
[22:20] <infinity> flexiondotorg: On the topic of the evil of "blessed images" though, I'd even like to see Ubuntu proper stop doing Beta2/FinalBeta/whatever for that same reason.
[22:21] <infinity> For the next month, we'll have people who insist on installing from that image and whining about the bugs, when the daily from two days from now will have those bugs fixed.
[22:21] <flexiondotorg> If you don't have the late betas people won't test them.
[22:22] <infinity> It's a double-edged sword, yes.
[22:22] <flexiondotorg> Then you final build quality will suffer.
[22:22] <flexiondotorg> I admit perhaps Alpha 1 is not so useful.
[22:22] <infinity> Though most of my good bugs come from people like jibel and davmor2, who I'm pretty sure I could convince to test even without a deadline milestone.
[22:22] <infinity> flexiondotorg: The point of alpha1 in early Ubuntu days was just to prove "holy crap, it builds".
[22:22] <flexiondotorg> infinity, You can't rely on a few commited people.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> For example, popey for a bug in MATE.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> None of the 7 MATE developers could reproduce it.
[22:23] <infinity> flexiondotorg: it used to take us that long to get from new series to debian sync/import to an image actually building.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> A quirk of hardware.
[22:23] <popey> \o/
[22:23] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Now, though, we tend to have images building for series+1 the day after series releases. :P
[22:23] <popey> I win at oddball bug finding
[22:23] <popey> where's my medal!
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> So you need a spread.
[22:23] <flexiondotorg> I gave them to you yesterday. Look at Samantha ;-)
[22:24] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Oh, I know.  Trust me, I know the value of manual testing.  Especially by people who do weird stuff. ;)
[22:24] <flexiondotorg> popey, You can't make software fool proof.
[22:24] <flexiondotorg> Because fools are so ingenious ;-)
[22:24] <infinity> (And by "weird stuff", I don't mean anything actually weird, just people who don't mechnically run through exact testcases on a wiki)
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Yep. Agree.
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> I have 4 or 5 committed testers for Ubuntu MATE.
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> They really pick away at stuff.
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> They a golden.
[22:25] <infinity> Historically, apw would always find some awful bug every cycle during release week, by *gasp* just using a fresh install. :P
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> *They are
[22:25] <flexiondotorg> I love that kind of commitment. Saves me so much time.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I did that early this time.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> Did fresh installs of the dailies on all the hardware on Monday.
[22:26] <flexiondotorg> Found loads of issues.
[22:26] <infinity> Yeah.  Software is terrible.  We should stop using it.
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> I have some new upload in Debian I'll be requesting a sync for soon and an update to 3 packages in Ubuntu.
[22:27] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Right. Are you going to make your session?
[22:27] <infinity> flexiondotorg: I've still got half an hour.  It's a short walk. :P
[22:28] <flexiondotorg> OK :-)
[22:30] <rcj> infinity, time for cloud images to start replication?
[22:30] <infinity> rcj: You can pull the trigger anytime.
[22:30] <rcj> infinity, excellent.  Thanks
[22:31] <infinity> rcj: Also, yay timing.  I was typing that when you asked. :P
[22:31] <rcj> infinity, I was just catching up on the channel backlog to make sure I wasn't asking a question with an obvious answer
[22:32] <infinity> rcj: I just pulled the trigger on cdimage and releases, so perfect time for you to be doing the same and crippling the world. ;)
[22:33] <infinity> rcj: Announce will go out in ~30m.
[22:33] <rcj> infinity, excellent.  let the infrastructure melt a bit
[22:49]  * flexiondotorg is standing by
[22:54]  * infinity is arguing with the wiki.
[22:56] <infinity> Might have to finish this from downstairs.  WiFi in the rooms seems crippled.
[22:56] <Ukikie> Wiki'll win.
[23:03] <infinity> Ukikie: It would seem you're right...
[23:07] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Okay, I underestimated.  Mirrors are still syncing. :P
[23:07] <flexiondotorg> infinity, I'm still here.
[23:07] <flexiondotorg> So, the release process is running.
[23:07] <flexiondotorg> Just announcement emails left and syncing to complete?
[23:08] <infinity> Yeahp.
[23:08] <flexiondotorg> Great.
[23:08]  * flexiondotorg mashes F5 ;-)
[23:25] <infinity> flexiondotorg: Alright, mail going out.
[23:25] <flexiondotorg> infinity, Great
[23:25] <flexiondotorg> Enjoy your conference.