[00:00] <bschaefer> Ill have to look at the code somemore...thought it could be very easy that I missed something when I removed a bunch of that code
[00:00] <MCR1> but do you understand my arguing ?
[00:00] <bschaefer> yeah
[00:02] <MCR1> I could not think of any situation where a hovering pointer over the launcher should still trigger a hide, it should not matter at all if the mouse is moved post reveal or not so long as the pointer is over the launcher which is checked there anyway...
[00:02] <bschaefer> MCR1, hmm the biggest thing is I just dosn't happen like that on my build...
[00:02] <MCR1> hmm, yeah - that is the strangest thingie...
[00:03] <bschaefer> MCR1, I think why it is there
[00:03] <bschaefer> MCR1, is move the the mouse over where the launcher would show...
[00:03] <bschaefer> Then open the dash
[00:03] <bschaefer> then close the dash
[00:03] <bschaefer> and the launcher hides, with the mouse over
[00:03] <bschaefer> it
[00:03] <MCR1> I could reproduce it on several machines and this hunts me for since Precise alphas
[00:04] <MCR1> if you close the Dash, but the pointer still hovers the launcher it should imho not hide either
[00:04] <bschaefer> MCR1, hmm well make a bug :)
[00:05] <bschaefer> which then the design team can make the decision
[00:05] <bschaefer> (though since it is programmed it I would think they already did)
[00:05]  * MCR1 is searching for his video-evidence :-D
[00:06] <bschaefer> MCR1, well make two bugs, one for that video you have
[00:06] <bschaefer> and when the mouse is over the launcher when the dash opens
[00:08] <MCR1> bschaefer: Too tired today, maybe I'll attack that tomorrow ;)
[00:08] <bschaefer> MCR1, alright, cool. Have a good night :)
[00:09] <bschaefer> MCR1, also 1307      neil.pa |       if (GetQuirk(MOUSE_MOVE_POST_REVEAL))
[00:09] <bschaefer> so it was added a while ago
[00:10] <MCR1> 1207 ?
[00:10] <MCR1> *1307
[00:11] <bschaefer> rev 1307
[00:11] <MCR1> ah
[00:11] <bschaefer> like we are on 26xx or something like that
[00:13] <MCR1> line 58 is also strange...
[00:14] <MCR1> tomorrow... gn :) & thanx a lot for your patience with me, bschaefer ;)
[07:02] <mhr3> bilal, ping
[08:47] <MCR1> JohnLea: Hi :) I would need your input here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1047232
[09:11] <MCR1> duflu: Mornin' :) Do you have any comments on https://code.launchpad.net/~mc-return/compiz/compiz.merge-replace-defines/+merge/122865  ?
[09:11] <duflu> MCR1: Sorry, out of time this week
[09:11] <duflu> In a mad rush this afternoon
[09:12] <MCR1> mad rushes can be productive, so I will stop nerveing ;)
[09:12] <MCR1> *nerving
[09:15] <JohnLea> MCR1; that bug looks like a dupe of bug #745707
[09:15] <didrocks> MCR1: see the MP, you are breaking one use case
[09:15] <didrocks> JohnLea: ^
[09:15] <didrocks> JohnLea: this will break the "super" key case
[09:16] <JohnLea> didrocks; how will bug #745707 break the "super" key use case?
[09:16] <didrocks> JohnLea: see my comment on https://code.launchpad.net/~mc-return/unity/unity.merge-fix-launcher-should-never-autohide-when-pointer-hovers-it/+merge/123231
[09:20] <JohnLea> didrocks; I don't think what you described in bug #123231 is that much of a problem, however well spotted and I think it would be better if we could add "This only applies when the Launcher is revealed by a pointer action, if the Launcher is revealed by a keyboard shortcut it should auto-hide as normal even if the mouse finds itself over the Launcher"  However this last statement is nice to have, not essential, and should not block this fix from l
[09:20] <JohnLea> anding IMHO
[09:20] <JohnLea> didrocks; I'm updating the description of bug #745707
[09:20] <didrocks> JohnLea: the bug doesn't describe it, however MCR1's fix is breaking it
[09:21] <didrocks> JohnLea: so the fix has to be redone, otherwise, we will have this regression
[09:21] <MCR1> JohnLea, didrocks: To my understanding it would fix bug 745707
[09:21] <JohnLea> didrocks; ok, MCR1 can you fix it? ;-)
[09:22] <didrocks> MCR1: see above + my comment ^
[09:22] <didrocks> MCR1: you still have that use case to work
[09:23] <MCR1> JohnLea: It would feel much better if the launcher would not hide in any case if the mouse hovers it, even if revealed by the Super key...
[09:23] <didrocks> MCR1: that was an explicit design use case
[09:23] <didrocks> there was more case in the past, that was removed by design
[09:25] <JohnLea> didrocks, MCR1; I have updated bug #745707 to include didrocks's point about keyboard shortcut triggered Launcher reveals, see bottom of the bug description.
[09:25] <MCR1> I understand, but it feels unnatural if something hides if the mousepointer hovers it, no matter how it is revealed, so maybe we should re-think this design
[09:25]  * MCR1 reading
[09:27] <MCR1> a long bug report...
[09:27]  * MCR1 needs some time to read and comprehend it all...
[09:28] <JohnLea> MCR1; I think didrock's point is that if users are using the SUPER + NUMBER shortcut to select applications, they don't want the Launcher stuck out if their mouse pointer just happens to be in the Launcher area prior to SUPER being pressed
[09:29] <MCR1> JohnLea: Yes, I understand that case...
[09:36] <MCR1> JohnLea: Have you seen bug 1019453, btw. ?
[09:37] <JohnLea> MCR1; yes I have seen it ;-)
[09:37] <MCR1> ^^^this would imho be the best behavior for launcher hiding...
[09:40] <MCR1> JohnLea: Ofc I am very interested in what you think about it also... :)
[09:55] <JohnLea> MCR1; I personally really liked intellihide, I always ran it, and I liked how it surfaced the tiles in my launcher when there was space, and was revealable when there wasn't.  However it user tested very badly with everybody other than expert users, and when the decision was made to not have it on by default, the dev team were not willing to carry the cost of continuing to support the feature.
[09:56] <sil2100> JohnLea: what problems did normal users have with intellihide?
[09:57] <MCR1> JohnLea: There never was intellihide in Unity, but just window dodge. The difference between them is very small in terms, but very large in practical use.
[09:57] <sil2100> JohnLea: maybe all that was needed was a short tutorial on first ubuntu login? I think teaching people is much better than just removing complicated features - this doesn't lead to lives getting more convinient
[09:57] <sil2100> Progress requires learning...
[09:57] <JohnLea> sil2100; you should have seen it!  user after user would resort to moving there windows out of the way every time they needed to access the Launcher!  Most new users assumed this was how you revealed the launcher, and it was very painful to watch
[09:58] <MCR1> JohnLea: While dodge will hide from every window, Intellihide will just hide from active windows and automatically reveal the launcher again if other windows not touching it are active - That is a HUGE difference.
[09:58] <sil2100> I just feel that removing more and more useful features just because some people didn't know how to use them is a bit sad... Since its not that they didn't use it, they just didn't know how it works, right?
[09:59] <MCR1> JohnLea: Please do me a favor and simply install the package docky and set it to intellihide. Especially, but not only  on dual screens this makes a huge difference to simple window dodge...
[10:00] <JohnLea> sil2100; if we require someone to pick up the documentation, or complete a tutorial in order to use something we have really failed from a ux point of view.  What we want is a nice progressive learning curve, where users start off using the basic interactions, and learn the more complex interactions through usage.  The issue that killed intellihide was that when it stopped being the default option the dev team didn't want to continue to carry the
[10:00] <JohnLea> cost of supporting the code.
[10:01] <JohnLea> MCR1; the problem with what you are describing is that most non-advanced users wouldn't get what was happening
[10:02] <sil2100> JohnLea: true, but what if we didn't require people to go through manuals or tutorials, just thinking of a way to *show* the newbie user on how to effectively use the operating system? Since anyway most non-advanced users had to learn the usage of a computer from books, courses or tutorials
[10:02] <MCR1> JohnLea: As I said before, there never was intellihide implemented in Unity, so no user was testing it ever...
[10:02] <sil2100> MCR1: there wasn't?
[10:02] <didrocks> MCR1: this was in the code, it was "dodge active window"
[10:02] <JohnLea> sil2100; there is also a UX cost to having options, just look at KDE.  However in this case it was the cost of maintaining the feature that killed it.
[10:02] <MCR1> JohnLea: Unity-2d has intellihide, Unity-3d once had window dodge...
[10:03] <MCR1> Unity-2d's autohide feature acts like intellihide IIRC...
[10:03] <MCR1> (it is a long time ago ;))
[10:03] <didrocks> MCR1: so it had it
[10:03] <MCR1> Unity-3d never had it
[10:04] <didrocks> dodge active window?
[10:04] <didrocks> I wrote this part of the code, I know what I wrote… :)
[10:04] <MCR1> Unity-2d had it until it was removed, but it was called autohide
[10:04] <JohnLea> sil2100; what we would like to do is to provide subtle visual cues to the user to aid discovery, some work to enable proximity effects which don't kill battery life is required to do some of these however
[10:05] <didrocks> MCR1: http://www.webupd8.org/2012/05/how-to-get-dodge-windows-and-minimize.html if you don't believe me
[10:05] <sil2100> JohnLea: there's a lot of things to consider here indeed..
[10:06] <didrocks> and look at the screenshot
[10:06] <didrocks> there is "dodge active window"
[10:07] <MCR1> didrocks: This PPA was never official code - it was a remake - I never tested it myself, but it was a completely different re-implementation after Dodge was removed in Precise
[10:07] <didrocks> MCR1: the ppa just reverted the commit
[10:07] <didrocks> so not a completely different re-implementation
[10:09] <didrocks> MCR1: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/branch-3.0/view/head:/unityshell.xml.in
[10:09] <didrocks> this is unity oneiric
[10:09] <didrocks> see "Dodge Active Window"
[10:09] <didrocks> or you will tell that I faked the bzr repo? :)
[10:09] <MCR1> oh, *surprised*
[10:09] <didrocks> thanks for trusting me when I told I wrote it… :/
[10:10] <MCR1> didrocks: I am really sorry - I never saw this option before...
[10:11] <didrocks> well, it was there :)
[10:11] <MCR1> & ofc I trust you ;)
[10:11] <didrocks> the logic is not a lot more compared to the first one: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~unity-team/unity/branch-3.0/view/head:/src/Launcher.cpp#L1894
[10:11] <didrocks> just an "active" tag
[10:12] <didrocks> and the hidemachine had a state if we had that option enabled
[10:12] <didrocks> (which wasn't the default)
[10:15] <MCR1> maybe the problem was that dodge any window was the default... and only this got tested, but I feel :-[ now, that I somehow skipped this option in CCSM...
[10:15] <MCR1> great code, btw
[10:16] <didrocks> I loved the feature too, but as JohnLea said, user testing showed it was too complicated for them
[10:16] <didrocks> and the code is now buried…
[10:17] <MCR1> :(
[10:19] <MCR1> I know many people (especiall older ones) who have problems differentiating left and right mousebutton, but I still do not think that the right solution for this problem is to remove one of the buttons...
[10:19] <MCR1> *especially
[10:19] <MCR1> ^^^this is no joke...
[10:23] <didrocks> some did it :-)
[10:24] <MCR1> :)
[10:30] <JohnLea> MCR1, didrocks; personally I am a fan of three button mice, RiscOS style.  Left button primary action, middle button context menu (and no other app menus other than these context menus), right button secondary action.  And everything in the operating system and all applications conforming to this pattern.  I still miss RiscOS
[10:31] <MCR1> JohnLea: Unfortunately no experience at all with RiscOS :)
[10:33] <JohnLea> MCR1; was way ahead of it's time in the early 90s, but got squeezed out by a combination on Windows, and inventing a chip that it named ARM, that quickly became worth more than the rest of the company.
[10:34] <JohnLea> MCR1; it did a bunch  of UI  things that were very different from both windows and osx and worked very well
[10:38] <MCR1> JohnLea: From screenshots it reminds me a bit of the early Amiga days - those were glorious 8-)
[10:39] <MCR1> My first HDD had 20 Megabyte and was starting like a jetplane :)
[11:16] <Night-hacks> any way to rotate Unity to bottom in 12.04 64 bit ?
[11:20] <popey> Night-hacks, No
[11:21] <Night-hacks> popey: really, that sucks !
[11:45] <gord> you could turn your monitor on its side?
[11:53] <Mirv> didrocks: can you merge lp:~timo-jyrinki/compiz/ubuntu_add_pythoncompizconfig_pc to lp:ubuntu/compiz, so that we can propose lp:~compiz-team/compiz/compiz.merge-minor-fixes for merging and compiz works again?
[11:55] <didrocks> let me look :)
[11:57] <didrocks> Mirv: done
[11:59] <Mirv> didrocks: thanks
[11:59] <didrocks> yw :)
[11:59] <sil2100> didrocks: I prepared the nux tarball btw - can you push, in the meantime, the changes to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/unity/precise ?
[11:59] <sil2100> didrocks: for the renaming?
[11:59] <sil2100> didrocks: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/unity/precise-geis-rename
[12:00] <didrocks> sil2100: the unity one are already done I think
[12:00] <didrocks> did you check?
[12:00] <sil2100> ... would be awesome if it was
[12:00] <sil2100> ;)
[12:00] <sil2100> Awesome ;p
[12:00] <sil2100> didrocks: thanks!
[12:00] <didrocks> :)
[12:00] <didrocks> yw
[12:32] <sil2100> didrocks: ok, I prepared and did a test build of the new nux tarball (with the renaming)
[12:32] <sil2100> didrocks: can I push and publish? ;)
[12:35] <didrocks> sil2100: is there a bug to track the renaming?
[12:35] <didrocks> but yeah, publish the nux tarball
[12:54] <davidcalle> mhr3, hey, is there a libunity method to close a preview without closing the Dash?
[12:54] <sil2100> didrocks: new tarball released, here is the packaging: https://code.launchpad.net/~sil2100/nux/precise-newtarball-geis
[12:54] <Mirv> MCR1: sam now added a python-compizconfig fix on top of your compiz.merge-minor-fixes, so he combination of that lp:~compiz-team/compiz/compiz.merge-minor-fixes would be going in and hopefully fixing everything (tm)..
[12:56] <zyga> hey everyone, I have just noticed that classic desktop in 12.10 has wrong order of window control buttons -> in unity that order is [x] [-] [o] while in classic mode they are [x] [o] [-] -- is this by design?
[12:59] <didrocks> sil2100: hum, in fact, I think you are missing a Breaks:
[12:59] <didrocks> like, if nux is updated
[12:59] <didrocks> and not unity
[12:59] <didrocks> hum
[12:59] <didrocks> forget about that one
[13:00] <didrocks> can be fine if there are symlink in the new utouch* packages
[13:00] <didrocks> sil2100: this has been the case, right?
[13:00] <didrocks> symlink from old naming to new naming?
[13:03] <sil2100> didrocks: I think a transitional package is there
[13:04] <didrocks> sil2100: I'm speaking about symlink
[13:04] <didrocks> like if I update utouch* to the new naming
[13:04] <didrocks> with old nux and unity (because I couldn't upgrade everything in a row)
[13:05] <didrocks> is there a symlink to ensure that nux and unity are still running?
[13:05] <sil2100> fginther: ^
[13:08] <fginther> didrocks, sil2100 the old and new utouch libraries can coexist (i.e. libgeis1 and libutouch-geis1 can be installed at the same time). However, there is a conflicts and replaces on libutouch-geis-dev in libgeis-dev
[13:09] <didrocks> fginther: can we load in the same process the old and new one?
[13:10] <didrocks> fginther: like new nux using libgeis1 and old unity using libutouch-geis1
[13:11] <fginther> didrocks, hmmm.. Yes that should work. Let me examine something to verify...
[13:11] <didrocks> thanks :)
[13:12] <sil2100> I need to get fginther's unity/5.0 rename changes merged in
[13:12] <sil2100> But the merger fails, looks to me like some stupid problem again
[13:16] <fginther> didrocks, Bonjour! Yes, you can mix new nux with old unity. nux only has s build-time dependency on libgeis-dev.
[13:17] <fginther> sil2100, what's the issue?
[13:17] <didrocks> fginther: excellent! thanks :)
[13:18] <didrocks> sil2100: there is a missing thing in the unity packaging though, in that case
[13:18] <didrocks> if libutouch-geis-dev and libgeis-dev are conflicting
[13:18] <didrocks> let me fix that :)
[13:28] <sil2100> didrocks: thank you!
[13:28] <sil2100> :)
[13:30] <didrocks> sil2100: not sure if you saw my question later today about the bug to track the renaming?
[13:30] <didrocks> sil2100: we need one for SRUing I guess
[13:32] <sil2100> didrocks: hm, right
[13:32] <sil2100> fginther: is there a bug for that already?
[13:33] <fginther> sil2100, will this work? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1037621
[13:36] <didrocks> I think something obvious with "renaming blablabla" would be better
[13:36] <didrocks> with a test case meaning, upgrading and see that there is no change, no regression and that multitouch is working
[13:40] <fginther> didrocks, ok, new bug on the way
[13:52] <fginther> didrocks, sil2100: https://bugs.launchpad.net/nux/+bug/1047385
[13:53] <tsdgeos> my first silly contribution to compiz so that i can at least compile it :D https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/compiz/kde_needs_kdeworkspace/+merge/123278
[13:53] <didrocks> fginther: good, please add the packaging task, the unity ones as well, and nominate for precise
[13:53] <didrocks> fginther: put the quantal tasks as fix released
[14:10] <mhr3> davidcalle, no, user decides when to close it, not the scope
[14:10] <mhr3> why would you need that?
[14:12] <davidcalle> mhr3, to do something to a result when an preview action is clicked, without loosing the context of the search. Possible use case : https://plus.google.com/u/0/117867558830601601230/posts/eLD7PMcMZ7M
[14:12] <davidcalle> losing*
[14:13] <davidcalle> mhr3, another option (for this use case) would be to be able to update the content of the preivew (including actions), when an action is activated.
[14:14] <mhr3> davidcalle, oh so you want to go back to results after clicking?
[14:14] <MCR1> Mirv: thx 4 the info.
[14:14] <davidcalle> mhr3, yeah
[14:15] <mhr3> yea, we should support that, and it might be possible somehow already :)
[14:15] <mhr3> maybe if you used goto dash uri
[14:15] <davidcalle> mhr3, goto dash uri, I've seen that used somewhere...
[14:16] <mhr3> i'm not sure it'd work, but protocol-wise it's doable
[14:16] <MCR1> tsdgeos: Keep it coming ;)
[14:16] <mhr3> (doable right now)
[14:17] <tsdgeos> MCR1: jenkins complained https://code.launchpad.net/~aacid/compiz/kde_needs_kdeworkspace/+merge/123278 but but but, any idea why?
[14:17] <tsdgeos> mmrazik: ↑ ?
[14:18] <davidcalle> mhr3, you mean something like Unity.ActivationResponse(goto_uri='' , handled = 1)
[14:18] <mmrazik> tsdgeos: I'm just looking at it
[14:19] <davidcalle> mhr3, nevermind, just seen what you are talking about
[14:19] <MCR1> tsdgeos: Have you rebased on latest lp:compiz ?
[14:20] <MCR1> tsdgeos: bzr merge lp:compiz
[14:20] <MCR1> bzr commit
[14:20] <MCR1> bzr push
[14:20] <tsdgeos> let me see
[14:20] <MCR1> cp: cannot stat `debian/tmp/debian/tmp/usr/lib/pkgconfig/compizconfig-python.pc': No such file or directory
[14:20] <MCR1> dh_install: cp -a debian/tmp/debian/tmp/usr/lib/pkgconfig/compizconfig-python.pc debian/python-compizconfig//usr/lib/pkgconfig/ returned exit code 1
[14:20] <MCR1> the fix for that is missing in your version ^^
[14:20] <mmrazik> tsdgeos: that ie exactly where jenkins fails
[14:21] <tsdgeos> i see
[14:21] <mmrazik> MCR1: so it is in trunk already?
[14:21] <MCR1> I have not tested, but I think - 1 sec
[14:22] <mmrazik> MCR1, tsdgeos: well.. I just found a bug in the ci job config. It is not merging with trunk...
[14:22] <MCR1> mmrazik: yes
[14:22] <mmrazik> that should be fixed
[14:22] <mmrazik> so let me re-trigger the job
[14:22] <tsdgeos> mmrazik: i'm useful!
[14:22] <tsdgeos> :D
[14:22] <mmrazik> :)
[14:23] <MCR1> mmrazik: yeah, you are right - I just got the mails that it did...
[14:23] <fginther> sil2100, didrocks can I ask you to please hold off work on the nux/unity for a moment
[14:23] <davidcalle> mhr3, don't work, it just closes the Dash.
[14:23] <MCR1> mmrazik: no, it is in trunk (since 50 min)
[14:24] <MCR1> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~compiz-team/compiz/0.9.8/revision/3352
[14:24] <mmrazik> MCR1: ack. The compiz-ci was building just the branch from tsdgeos and it didn't merge it with lp:compiz
[14:24] <mhr3> davidcalle, what did you use?
[14:24] <davidcalle> return Unity.ActivationResponse(goto_uri='', handled=3 ) and return Unity.ActivationResponse.new(Unity.HandledType.HIDE_DASH, '')
[14:24] <davidcalle> Not HIDE_DASH, bad copiy paste
[14:25] <davidcalle> but GOTO_DASH_URI
[14:25] <mhr3> davidcalle, try "home.lens" for the uri
[14:25] <sil2100> fginther: ugh? What's up?
[14:26] <didrocks> fginther: sure, and TBH I don't ming, tons of pings here
[14:27] <davidcalle> mhr3, nope
[14:28] <fginther> sil2100, didrock chase found a potential issue that needs to be root cause
[14:28] <mhr3> davidcalle, so, yea... open a bug :)
[14:28] <sil2100> fginther: ok, keep me in touch then ;) Need any help?
[14:32] <sil2100> fginther: where is the issue btw.? Hope it's not in nux...
[14:35] <fginther> sil2100, I don't have many details yet, just that "- Verify gesture functionality" isn't working.
[14:36] <sil2100> Oh, ok
[16:29] <MCR1> didrocks: Can and should I use the ubus_manager_ to check if the Dash has been activated with the shortcut key ?
[16:30] <didrocks> MCR1: not sure you will get this info, but I didn't look at ubus_manager for a long time :)
[16:40] <bschaefer> MCR1, it should send this message when the dash opens. UBUS_OVERLAY_SHOWN
[16:40]  * bschaefer double checks it
[16:40] <bschaefer> yeah
[16:40] <didrocks> bschaefer: right, but it doesn't special case if it's opened with the shortcut key
[16:41] <didrocks> which is what MCR1 wanted I guess
[16:41] <bschaefer> didrocks, ooo, yeah...wait I think it does...
[16:41]  * bschaefer goes to check
[16:41] <MCR1> bschaefer:  I thought more about using UBUS_DASH_EXTERNAL_ACTIVATION
[16:41] <bschaefer> ubus.SendMessage(UBUS_PLACE_ENTRY_ACTIVATE_REQUEST, g_variant_new("(sus)", "home.lens", dash::NOT_HANDLED, ""));
[16:42] <bschaefer> LauncherController.cpp:727
[16:42] <bschaefer> MCR1, ^
[16:42] <MCR1> bschaefer: thx
[16:42] <bschaefer> MCR1, np :)
[16:52] <mhr3> and i'll be probably removing ubus_manager :P
[16:54] <bschaefer> mhr3, please do...it just causes issues
[16:54] <bschaefer> :)
[16:54] <bschaefer> things need to be re worked though....
[16:55] <mhr3> bschaefer, well, i mean like rewrite it, not get rid of it completely
[16:55] <bschaefer> mhr3, haha, I was hoping you figured out how to do that
[16:55]  * bschaefer thinks ubus ruins OO design
[16:55] <mhr3> imo it's useful
[16:55] <bschaefer> yeaah
[16:56] <bschaefer> but I wonder if things could be designed to fit better
[16:56] <mhr3> and it's message passing, isn't that base of OO? :)
[16:56] <bschaefer> yeah, but it likes a huge global variable
[16:57] <bschaefer> err
[16:57] <bschaefer> its talking with things it shouldn't be
[16:57] <mhr3> like?
[16:58] <bschaefer> like when the Dash is about to show it sends this ubus message to everyone who is listening (which you never know when it'll get there)
[16:58] <bschaefer> which causes syncing problems
[16:58] <mhr3> fwiw one thing i'll change is that you'll be able to assign priority to the message when sending it
[16:58] <bschaefer> oo that would be awesome
[16:58] <bschaefer> but its a queue!
[16:59] <bschaefer> priority queue
[16:59] <mhr3> which from my tests is a huge win for responsiveness
[16:59] <bschaefer> max/min heap...hmm that should work :)
[16:59] <bschaefer> mhr3, yeah, ubus does help a lot, but I keep running into times where I NEED the message to be sent and read before going on...
[17:00] <mhr3> well the listeners will still be invoked in order they registered
[17:00] <mhr3> but the high prio msg will be delivered sooner than the standard ones
[17:00] <didrocks> mhr3: do you have so much UBUS traffic to need that?
[17:01] <didrocks> was pretty low in my time :)
[17:01] <bschaefer> yeah, that would be awesome
[17:01] <mhr3> didrocks, no, but it uses idle which is not acceptable for everything
[17:01] <didrocks> you want some sync messages?
[17:01] <mhr3> didrocks, didn't you read the bugs which say that dash opens >5seconds after super keypress
[17:01] <bschaefer> didrocks, yes
[17:02] <mhr3> that's because it uses idle
[17:02] <didrocks> mhr3: didn't see that one TBH :)
[17:02] <mhr3> bschaefer, no, no, still fully async
[17:02] <bschaefer> mhr3, I removed that
[17:02]  * bschaefer always confuses async and sync
[17:02] <didrocks> I remember to have reported that more than one in my old system :)
[17:02] <bschaefer> but I know the definition of both haha
[17:03] <bschaefer> mhr3, that Idle in opening the dash is removed :)
[17:03] <didrocks> mhr3: hum, async and no idle to bring it back to the main loop, I'm confused :)
[17:03] <bschaefer> (or it will be soon)
[17:03] <mhr3> didrocks, async is fine as long as you can specify the prio
[17:04] <mhr3> and in compiz it's simple
[17:05] <mhr3> HIGH prio - do on next iteration, STANDARD - do when current processing finishes, LOW - do sometimes in the future when the app isn't doing anything (which is once in 30seconds on slow machines)
[17:05] <mhr3> right now it defaults to the last, and therefore it sucks
[17:05] <bschaefer> mhr3, yea, if it would do it next iteration at times I would no longer hate ubus as it is in unity :)
[17:06] <mhr3> (ok the 30seconds was a bit exagerrated) :P
[17:06] <bschaefer> haha ~1 second
[17:06] <bschaefer> is still to long
[17:06] <didrocks> mhr3: hum, I don't get the STANDARD one, you will get the mainloop more than once
[17:06] <mhr3> for user-initiated actions, indeed
[17:07] <mhr3> didrocks, compiz repaints and reading from sockets is done with standard
[17:08] <bschaefer> mhr3, wait is this just some sort of dream or in the works?
[17:08] <didrocks> ok
[17:08] <didrocks> make sense now
[17:08] <MCR1> from reading your conversation above it seems to me that the ubus solution might not be the best for my problem
[17:08] <mhr3> otherwise said - the usual case is - HIGH: do on next iteration, STANDARD: do in next ~10 iterations, LOW: next ~100?
[17:09] <didrocks> mhr3: yeah, more clear that way :)
[17:09] <didrocks> you are basically implemented a g_source? :)
[17:09] <mhr3> bschaefer, ehm.... :)
[17:10] <mhr3> didrocks, ubus uses gsources, so i'm just explaining how it fits into the global picture of processing events
[17:10] <bschaefer> mhr3, well I would love to work on that part (If I ever get time) ... as it would be fun to implement a priority queue
[17:10] <didrocks> ok :)
[17:10] <mhr3> bschaefer, you mean like auto q = std::queue<...>(); ?
[17:11] <bschaefer> mhr3, that is a standard queue
[17:11] <bschaefer> FIFO
[17:11] <mhr3> oh.. priority
[17:11] <mhr3> sorry
[17:11] <bschaefer> I don't think that is in the standard...
[17:11] <mhr3> bschaefer, so yea auto q = std::priority_queue<...>(); :P
[17:11] <bschaefer> mhr3, dam, it has been a while since I wrote a heap :(
[17:12] <bschaefer> mhr3, but that is going to be better then what I could have made haha
[17:12] <mhr3> bschaefer, although data structures are awesome, don't expect you'll ever have to implement one :)
[17:12] <bschaefer> mhr3, i know :) (I can dream though!)
[17:13] <mhr3> bschaefer, know their properties though, that's extermly important
[17:13] <bschaefer> mhr3, yes it is! and awesome it uses a heap :)
[17:14] <mhr3> i never got to implementing heap at uni, i randomly picked hashtable instead :P
[17:14] <bschaefer> mhr3, we got to make a process scheduler (not a real one haha)
[17:14] <bschaefer> that was really fun
[17:14] <mhr3> oh that sounds nice
[17:15] <bschaefer> which in a sense is what you would want with the ubus
[17:15] <bschaefer> each new ubus message add to queue
[17:15] <bschaefer> let the heap do its magic
[17:15] <bschaefer> grab front
[17:15] <bschaefer> though I am not sure how ubus works with the main loop
[17:16] <mhr3> my plan say multimap
[17:17] <mhr3> msgs with same priority will be appended, high prio is put where it needs to
[17:17] <bschaefer> nice, using that binary tree :)
[17:17] <bschaefer> hmm so a max of 3 nodes?
[17:18] <bschaefer> and each node having a queue?
[17:18] <mhr3> honestly i dunno what multimap uses
[17:18] <bschaefer> (maps use binary trees)
[17:18] <mhr3> but yea, i guess binary tree with lists as nodes
[17:19] <bschaefer> hmm that would also work, but if the priority queue is already in the standard it could make things easier
[17:19] <bschaefer> so you wouldn't have to make a map<int, queue>
[17:19] <mhr3> yea, i'll check it out
[17:19] <bschaefer> mhr3, cool :) that sounds like fun haha
[17:19] <mhr3> anyway, eod for today :)
[17:19] <bschaefer> yeah, I should do some work :)
[17:19] <bschaefer> have a good weekend!


[00:40] <wyoung> Gaffel: People still use NetBSD?
[05:10] <Goneri> meena, thanks for the review
[05:39] <wyoung> 5


[01:43] <brousch> Scary_Guy: The Mycroft Mark I claims to be open hardware https://mycroft.ai/product/mycroft-mark-1/
[02:02] <cmaloney> Yeah, the Mycroft is essentially a RPi
[02:02] <brousch> I'm going to try to have Mycroft give much of my talk via a custom skill
[02:03] <brousch> Slide deck + prompts like "Hey mycroft, tell me about the mark one"
[02:20] <cmaloney> niceQ
[04:43] <Scary_Guy> I meant the audio kit, not the actual mycroft, but the raspberry pi isn't even open hardware so :/
[04:44] <Scary_Guy> thank you though
[11:55] <waldo323> good morning
[13:28] <jrwren> rick_h_: no idea. maybe its a shell far and not an exported env var?
[13:29] <rick_h_> jrwren: yea, exactly. I forgot to add export to the zshrc call.


[21:30] <soren> How does upstart determine if it's being run in a chroot? AIUI, it's meant to start upstart if it's run as root inside a chroot, but that doesn't seem to be happening. Instead it just seems to try to connect to an existing upstart instance (which fails, since it's a chroot on an Android device )
[21:39] <soren> Oh, is it perhaps not supposed to run a new upstart, but simply allow it to run jobs in the "system" upstart in a contained fashion?


[01:17] <ara> bdmurray: http://gobby.0x539.de/trac/ticket/335 ;-)
[13:54] <unimatrix9> hello there
[13:54] <unimatrix9> some one around?


[07:14] <happycube> nokia 770's @ woot for $129.95
[07:26] <pwnguin> is the nokia internet tablet an intended target of ubuntu-mobile?
[07:30] <pwnguin> cuz there's 770s on sale for 125 at the moment
[07:34] <happycube> not at first go
[07:34] <happycube> it'd have to be arm based and they'd have to get past all the non-open bits
[07:35] <pwnguin> oh?
[07:36] <pwnguin> is this not targetting the ARM platform?
[07:37] <happycube> not at first
[07:37] <pwnguin> "at first"
[07:38] <happycube> i'm not sure
[07:38] <pwnguin> everything i read screams, nokia tablets
[07:39] <pwnguin> except for Intel's "new low power intel chipset"
[07:39] <happycube> it's that
[07:40] <pwnguin> if i were conspiratorial, id imagine canonical was hired to develop a platform for a new nokia (or intel) tablet
[07:41] <happycube> oh we know that already ;)  intel is sponsoring it
[07:42] <pwnguin> strange
[07:42] <pwnguin> x86 low power
[07:43] <pwnguin> i guess it doesn't matter much
[07:43] <pwnguin> i already have an x86 toshiba tablet
[07:48] <pwnguin> its a little strange, reading the open mailing list of a secret project
[07:59] <happycube> it's not a secret ;)
[07:59] <happycube> intel's detailed plans for MID's and <=2w 45nm pentium-m's
[07:59] <happycube> secret would be if AMD was planning something, which they can't/won't
[07:59] <happycube> (for one thing it'd mean an ATI video chip... i'm suuuure shuttleworth would go along with bundling fglrx)
[08:03] <pwnguin> or
[08:03] <pwnguin> they could open the drivers ;)
[08:04] <pwnguin> or improve the existing ones
[08:04] <pwnguin> radeon isnt that bad
[08:05] <pwnguin> so really this is targetting a replacement for UPMC platform
[08:06] <pwnguin> makes sense
[08:06] <pwnguin> makes software cheaper for hardware makers, puts pressure on microsoft, and generally sells more chips for intel
[08:07] <happycube> yup
[08:07] <happycube> r500 *just* got an alpha 2d driver this last week - from reverse engineering
[08:07] <happycube> nvidia at least works on the free 2d drivers
[08:07] <happycube> *their
[08:09] <pwnguin> kinda
[08:10] <pwnguin> it's also so poorly commented they're the only ones who really can
[08:10] <pwnguin> (this hasn't stopeed me from trying)
[02:02] <Mithrandir> hiya agoliveira
[02:03] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: do you have a script or something to get the hildon desktop up and running?  I'm still trying to make head and tails of the last two weeks. :-)
[02:03] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Hi.
[02:03] <agoliveira> agoliveira: Yes, hold on.
[02:04] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Check this out: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure
[02:05] <Mithrandir> do you really need a chroot for it?
[02:06] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Some things might not be necessary like editing /etc/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf as I did that in the package already.
[02:06] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: You can also use Gutsy itself.
[02:08] <mdz> Mithrandir,agoliveira: ahve you noticed this?
[02:08] <mdz> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/free/source/Sources.gz  401 Unauthorized
[02:08] <mdz> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/non-free/source/Sources.gz  401 Unauthorized
[02:08] <mdz> Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/bora/extras/source/Sources.gz  401 Unauthorized
[02:08] <Mithrandir> mdz: seems to work from here
[02:08] <agoliveira> mdz: No, where did you get it?
[02:08] <agoliveira> mdz: Works here.
[02:09] <mdz> I'm at millbank
[02:09] <Mithrandir> agoliveira: also, do we have a sample hildon app that can be used for testing if stuff display well?
[02:10] <agoliveira> agoliveira: Nothing specific AFAIK.
[02:10] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Nothing specific AFAIK.
[02:11] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: But usually running standard gnome applications works.
[02:25] <ian_brasil> It might be nice for the docs to create/implement/test one standard app the whole way through development
[02:25] <ian_brasil> maemo follows this approach somewhat
[02:51] <Mithrandir> ian_brasil: yes, I think that would be sane
[03:14] <Mithrandir> mdz: do you have sdk-default-icons in bzr?
[03:15] <mdz> Mithrandir: no, because there was no upstream to import yet (and the nokia guys said they were going to add it there)
[03:15] <mdz> (very soon)
[03:15] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:16] <mdz> it may be in svn by now
[03:16] <mdz> tommi or moises should be able to say
[03:22] <Mithrandir> mdz: there are also some file conflicts between it and hicolor-icon-theme ?
[03:29] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: How did you see that? I don't remember having those conflics on my notebook that I'm using for testing.
[03:31] <Mithrandir> conflicts over usr/share/icons/hicolor/index.theme
[03:34] <tko_> MDK said he'd work something out this week. however I'm not sure it'll take care of the conflict
[03:34] <Mithrandir> it seems to me like you're kinda trying to be a hicolor theme, but not really?
[03:36] <tko_> like we didn't really get debian packaging, we didn't really get hicolor icon theme either
[03:36] <tko_> though in a way our icons are just add-ons and regenerating icon cache should fix it, but then our packaging was done such a way that it included the cache... *sigh*
[03:37] <tko_> actually that should be getting fixed and you shouldn't get conflicts
[03:39] <Mithrandir> hm, the theme cache is just one bit of this.
[03:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: I thought I fixed that by changing it to use dh_iconcache rather than shipping the index.theme
[03:42] <mdz> but I was in a great hurry and may have botched it
[03:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: at any rate, things are moving toward using chroots for development, where this should be a non-issue
[03:44] <Mithrandir> true
[03:45] <amitk> robr: could you ask jacob_laptop to subscribe to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>I reworked his poulsbo patches and posted them there. He should probably check the archives for some comments
[03:46] <agoliveira> I second that. It's much safer that way.
[06:08] <agoliveira> Mithrandir: Did you give a try on Rusty's project builder?
[07:10] <ian_brasil> i have a base gutsy chroot installed...the process to get a Hildon Desktop is now  apt-get install hildon-desktop right??
[07:12] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: apt-get install ubuntu-mobile will bring also some required packages like themes
[07:13] <ian_brasil> ok i try that...thx
[07:13] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: In case something fails, check out this document here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/HildonDesktopManualProcedure and report back what happened, ok?
[07:14] <ian_brasil> i will do
[07:14] <matt_c> apt-get install ubuntu-mobile and the preperation/running scripts worked for me the other day
[07:15] <ian_brasil> sweet
[07:18] <matt_c> installing ubuntu-mobile a few days ago broke the application menu but I think that's been fixed (I haven't tried again recently)
[07:31] <ian_brasil> do i need to change my gutsy sources.list to install ubuntu-mobile
[07:33] <matt_c> ian_brasil: it should be in the standard sources for gutsy
[07:34] <ian_brasil> Mmm..i get could not find package
[07:35] <ian_brasil> i have deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu gutsy main in my sources.list
[07:37] <agoliveira> matt_c: Yes, the broken menus have being fixed, I don't know if reached the repositories yet.
[07:40] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: That's strange, do you have the universe rep enabled?
[07:40] <ian_brasil> i must be doing something wrong as apt-cache search hildon-desktop returns nothing as well
[07:40] <ian_brasil> no i only have that 1 line in my source.list
[07:40] <agoliveira> Ah...
[07:41] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: You need to add universe session to it.
[07:41] <ian_brasil> ok
[07:43] <matt_c> ahh sorry, adding universe has become so second nature that I forget that I've done it sometimes
[07:52] <ian_brasil> its ok...i am writing this up so just wanted to cross the t's and dot the i's basically...it works ok now
[07:58] <ian_brasil> it bugged out installing ubuntu-mobile
[07:58] <ian_brasil> Errors were encountered while processing:
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  dbus
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  dbus-x11
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libgnomevfs2-0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildonwm0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildondesktop0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildon-thumbnail0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildonmime0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libhildonfm2
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libgnome2-0
[07:58] <ian_brasil>  libbonoboui2-0
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  libgnomeui-0
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  libgtkhtml3.14-19
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  libhildonhelp0
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  hildon-desktop
[07:59] <ian_brasil>  ubuntu-mobile
[07:59] <ian_brasil> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[08:04] <ian_brasil> the dpkg.log shows lines like:
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status half-installed libhildonmime0 1.9.5-1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status unpacked libhildonmime0 1.9.5-1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status unpacked libhildonmime0 1.9.5-1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 install hildon-fm-l10n-engb <none> 3.0-sardine1ubuntu1
[08:04] <ian_brasil> 2007-06-25 17:52:33 status half-installed hildon-fm-l10n-engb 3.0-sardine1ubuntu1
[08:07] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Is there any message saying like "trying to overwrite /usr/share/icons/hicolor/index.theme"...?
[08:07] <ian_brasil> hold on
[08:09] <ian_brasil> no...just that half-installed lines
[08:10] <ian_brasil> i dunno if this helps but i installed nano to start with which complained about locales and defaults
[08:10] <agoliveira> I mean, above the line "Errors were encountered while processing:"
[08:11] <ian_brasil> no it was just the sub-process returned an error code
[08:11] <agoliveira> Ah, ok. I just saw something....
[08:11] <agoliveira> hold on
[08:13] <ian_brasil> you want the whole dpkg error?
[08:14] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Are you trying to install it on a gutsy machine?
[08:14] <ian_brasil> on a feisty machine with a gutsy chroot
[08:16] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Hmmm... in my Gutsy machine worked like a charm... can you send me the logs by email? It's easier for me to read<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[08:16] <ian_brasil> on their way
[08:17] <agoliveira> ian_brasil:Thanks.
[08:18] <rusty> does anyone know amit's normal working hours?
[08:18] <rusty> or.. amit, are you listening?
[08:22] <agoliveira> rusty: Hi Rusty. IIRC, Amit is UTC +3 so it's a bit late over there now.
[08:22] <rusty> ok, thanks... i just didn't know if he was they kind of guy who hacks all night and sleeps all day
[08:34] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: I think I know what happened. The dbus postinstall failed and that broke the sequence. I'll check it out because it was working.
[08:36] <amitk> rusty: hi :)  My usual working hours are 0900-1700 UTC.
[08:37] <rusty> hey amit... i was going to introduce you to ToddBrandt who is working on the power stuff
[08:38] <amitk> hi ToddBrandt
[08:40] <agoliveira> kwwii: Ken, do you know where the icons at this page came from? They are quite familiar but I can't remember where I saw... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8166710404.html
[08:41] <amitk> rusty, ToddBrandt: I will be catching up with Kylem on the UME kernel configs (hopefully tomorrow). Are there any power related 'items' that need special attention?
[08:41] <kwwii> asac:
[08:41] <kwwii> erm
[08:41] <kwwii> agoliveira: I think that they are from a stock gnome installation
[08:41] <rusty> amitk, i don't think so... ToddBrandt would be talking more about the user space side of things
[08:42] <rusty> amitk, other then using a tickless configuration
[08:42] <kwwii> agoliveira: looks like some tango icons mixed with some app icons
[08:43] <amitk> rusty: tickless - ofcourse. I am assuming HPET-support will come automatically. Anything in terms of user-space power policies?
[08:43] <agoliveira> kwwii: Ah... fine. It's just that they looked familar, no big deal. Thanks.
[08:43] <rusty> amitk, the user-space power policies is exactly what ToddBrandt is working on... which is why i wanted to get him connected to you
[08:44] <kwwii> agoliveira: no problem
[08:46] <amitk> rusty: great. I guess I will run into him soon enough. If there is already some documents, you can send them to amit_at_ubuntu_dot_com
[08:47] <rusty> amitk, actually, i was having ToddBrandt start creating a blueprint and dumping all of his current design work into that blueprint
[08:48] <rusty> amitk, is that the right thing to do?
[08:49] <amitk> rusty: that would indeed be the best thing to do. He and I can then work on getting the blueprints in shape and break them into smaller components if needed.
[08:51] <rusty> amitk, cool... i think he might have stepped out for lunch just before you started talking on IRC, but before that i was pointing him to launchpad.net and he was starting to create a new project so he could fill out a new blueprint.  We didn't know if there was a different place he should be adding the content, but worse case he would just move it when we found out the right spec
[08:54] <amitk> rusty: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/power-management-in-ubuntu is where I dumped my current list of ideas worth pursuing
[08:55] <amitk> rusty: I think ToddBrandt should create a new one, subscribe me to it and then we could discuss how to best separate out kerne/userspace stuff.
[08:56] <rusty> amitk, ToddBrandt see the above when you get back to you computer :->
[08:57] <amitk> rusty: I am done for today. I will catch you tomorrow once I have had some time discussing details of the UME sprint
[08:58] <rusty> amitk, ok, see you l8r
[09:47] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: I'm installing a chroot from scratch to see what's happening as the one I had is working fine.
[09:48] <ian_brasil> ok...let me know
[10:27] <ian_brasil> agoliveira: looks like the first dpkg error relates to dbus: Setting up dbus (1.0.2-5ubuntu1) ...
[10:27] <ian_brasil> invoke-rc.d: initscript dbus, action "start" failed.
[10:28] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: Exactly and it seens to be afecting upstream as well. I'm cheking it out.
[10:38] <agoliveira> ian_brasil: dbus 1.0.2-5 has indeed a bug making it bombs when no services are active. I'm checking out how to solve this.
[10:39] <ian_brasil> cool...how did you find this out?
[10:43] <rusty> ian_brasil, agoliveira are you guys trying to get a fresh chroot working?
[10:43] <rusty> if so... you need proc mounted to install dbus
[10:44] <rusty> in general, you really need /proc, /sys, and it's a good idea to have /tmp bind mounted for a bunch of different things
[10:44] <agoliveira> rusty: Yes but  /proc /sys are mounted
[10:44] <agoliveira> /tmp too btw
[10:45] <rusty> hmm...
[10:45] <ian_brasil> i added to /etc/fstab
[10:45] <rusty> unless an update has been made to dbus since yesterday, i can install dbus in a chroot with no problems
[10:46] <agoliveira> rusty: What's your dbus version?
[10:46] <agoliveira> I mean, the package
[10:46] <rusty> let me see...
[10:47] <rusty>  1.0.2-5ubuntu1
[10:48] <agoliveira> Gee... same here. Weird.
[10:48] <rusty> i might be doing another step
[10:48] <agoliveira> The funny thing is that I had one chroot working fine.
[10:48] <agoliveira> Which one?
[10:52] <rusty> http://codebrowse.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/project-builder/ubuntu/annotate/rusty%40rusty-laptop-20070624230429-q1d2i5cq8krp71f6?file_id=project.py-20070611215750-v6m0mwari40ckyel-30
[10:53] <rusty> search for "def mount" to see my function for mounting a chroot
[10:54] <rusty> the only thing else i see special is i copy over the resolv.conf and hosts files
[10:54] <rusty> i can't image dbus needing a network
[10:57] <ian_brasil> in maemo bora scratchbox there were problems with resolv.conf and hosts file...maybe it is this?
[10:58] <agoliveira> No.
[10:58] <agoliveira> I got it.
[11:00] <agoliveira> I'm not 100% sure about this but, if I understood it correctly, there is indeed a bug that prevents dbus from start if there is no processes running already. I you're binding the chroot proc with /proc, it works.
[11:01] <agoliveira> So: sudo mount --bind /proc gutsy/proc/ solved the problem.
[11:02] <agoliveira> Or at least masked it if is there really a bug ;)
[11:02] <rusty> agoliveira, i thought you said that you already mounted proc?
[11:04] <agoliveira> rusty: Sorry, I wasn't clear. Inside the chroot proc was shown as mounted I didn't do it manualy.
[11:06] <ian_brasil> that works for me too
[11:06] <agoliveira> rusty: But, of course, it was empty. I didn't realized that. I'll add to the TODO to mount /proc and /sys.
[11:09] <rusty> and add /tmp or else attempts to run an app with a Xephyr window will fail
[11:10] <rusty> not to mention the network config files, or else apps that need a network will not know how to resolve addresses
[11:13] <agoliveira> /tmp is there already but I didn't have to do anything regarding the network files but add the universe repository to /etc/apt/sources.conf
[11:15] <agoliveira> I got to go now but I'll see if I can check this again later today yet.
[11:18] <ian_brasil> i still need to comment out the StatusBar on /etc/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf
[11:18] <ian_brasil> ?
[11:21] <agoliveira> agoliveira: I alreayd fixed that but didn't check if the update reached the repository.
[11:22] <ian_brasil> no problem
[12:29] <robr> BenC, did our poulsbo/menlow patches make it into your kernel?
[12:30] <BenC> robr: not this upload, but amitk will get them in tomorrow and build you guys a kernel to try out
[12:30] <BenC> should have another kernel upload in a week
[12:30] <robr> BenC, ok. we'll test it then when it's available


[09:22] <brobostigon> good morning eveyrone,
[09:27] <MartijnVdS> \o
[09:29] <brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> heh, I wonder if this is right, or if someone Oopsed:
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> I dumped my graphics bios (intel_bios_dump), and am now reading it with intel_bios_read
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> The HDMI ports show:
[10:03] <MartijnVdS>                 Device type: 0x60d2 (DVI-D)
[10:03] <MartijnVdS>                 Info: DisplayPort
[10:03] <MartijnVdS> the DP port shows:
[10:03] <MartijnVdS>                 Device type: 0x60d6 (DisplayPort/HDMI/DVI)
[10:03] <MartijnVdS>                 Info: DVI
[11:03] <MartijnVdS> https://www.google.com/search?q=timer+10+seconds
[11:35] <penguin42> http://www.androidpolice.com/2013/08/03/android-bluetooth-exploit-for-japanese-toilet-brings-new-meaning-to-the-word-vulnerability/
[11:42] <MartijnVdS> oh the puns
[12:00] <shauno> I must confess, I don't quite understand why you'd want an app for your potty in the first place
[12:01] <penguin42> shauno: Indeed, or how you clean your phone after you use the app
[12:37] <SuperEngineer> a'noon peeps
[12:37] <SuperMatt> hulloooo
[12:37] <SuperEngineer> o/
[12:38] <penguin42> Hey Supers
[12:39] <SuperEngineer> hi penguin42 SuperMatt
[12:39] <SuperEngineer> the strangest coincidences happen sometimes...
[12:40] <SuperEngineer> just as some bloke called billy b deletes a g+ a/c - some strange person called Su Peren-Gineer opens one!
[12:40] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[12:41] <penguin42> let me guess, oddly they thought billy b wasn't a valid name?
[12:41]  * penguin42 expects Su Peren-Gineer to produce the passport etc
[12:41] <SuperEngineer> no - a long time ago they though "superengineer" & "super engineer" were not real!
[12:42] <SuperEngineer> oh revenge is a dish best served....
[12:42] <penguin42> who would doubt it?
[12:42] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: I had my Dr at the start of my G+ name and had to remove it
[12:43] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: lol
[12:43] <SuperEngineer> annoyingly, 1 week after I was notified superengineer wasn't "real" I found they then a private company called by same name abroad have it!!
[12:43] <SuperEngineer> again... oh revenge is a dish best served....
[12:44] <penguin42> and I'm fairly sure they added that rule years after I created my account
[12:44] <SuperEngineer> ditto here!
[12:44] <SuperEngineer> that's how G treat the early adopters - loyalty means nowt
[12:46] <daftykins> :o you're a Dr. Penguin? neat :)
[12:47] <SuperEngineer> [he meant to a dd a "who" after "Dr."?
[12:47] <daftykins> ugh leave that overrated series alone ¬_¬
[12:48] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: it's only over ratyed if you don't come from another planet... like what I do!
[12:48] <daftykins> oh that old chestnut :(
[12:48] <daftykins> i forgot you are our resident fruitcake!
[12:48] <ali1234> billy b chops?
[12:48] <ali1234> who would think this is not a valid name?
[12:49] <SuperEngineer> yup - old indeed - been telling people that evr since grammar school!
[12:51] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: it was super engineer / superengineer they claimed did not exist - yet they let this non-existent person know he didn't exist!
[12:51] <SuperEngineer> now who's crazy, eh, G+!
[12:51] <ali1234> i don't even
[12:54] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Search doesn't find Su
[12:54] <SuperEngineer> daftykins: ...and proud of it - tho beware, I have been known for some exceptional wisdoms [& modesty]  ;)
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> hmm - how long before they catch up? yhey do say there is a lag showig up new a/cs
[12:55] <SuperEngineer> *they
[12:56] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: "Su" should show 100's of Sues etc surely?
[12:56] <SuperEngineer> try Peren-Gineer
[12:57] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: No, Peren-Gineer doesn't find anything
[12:57] <SuperEngineer> i would try myself but I doubt that would work from own a/c
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> ...in which case their warning is correct - may take a while
[12:58] <SuperEngineer> [unless they're looking thru name databases of all known countries for an Peren-Gineer of course!
[12:58] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Give them a phone number and ask them to call you and put on a suitably fruity accent
[12:59] <SuperEngineer> ooo *that* might work!
[12:59] <SuperEngineer> -not-
[13:03]  * SuperEngineer wonders if G m,onitor this channel & are busy deleting me! - nah!!!!
[13:03] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well the channel is logged publicly , and google indexes it....
[13:05] <SuperEngineer> so.. dear G -  I can think of another monitoring orginisation beginning with "G" - hmmmmmm?
[13:06] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Just wait until you get tax requests for Su
[13:07] <SuperEngineer> can't hurt more than my current ones!
[13:07] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: they already seem to think I should twice!
[13:07] <penguin42> that seems rather unfair
[13:07] <SuperEngineer> *pay twice
[13:08] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: your comment is more polite than the one I use every time a tax notify comes through letterbox!
[13:09] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: Is it a Buttle/Tuttle type screw up?
[13:09] <SuperEngineer> dunno
[13:10] <SuperEngineer> been in "frank discussions" with them over 2 years "discussing" my opinion of their tax codong - they still haven't sent a plain English explanation after 2 years
[13:11]  * SuperEngineer is slightly less than iompressed
[13:12] <penguin42> yeh there's absolutely no way of getting them to do anything sane as far as I can tell
[13:12] <SuperEngineer> agreed
[13:13]  * penguin42 spent some time a while ago sorting out when they screwed up and said I owed tax on interest on an account - which they only gave a few digits from; turned out to be an ISA I'd closed years before
[13:13] <SuperEngineer> athough a long while ago they added someone else's work to my a/c and I ended up having to threaten court action under several charges before they stopped
[13:13] <SuperEngineer> ..nearly time for a repeat of history methinks
[13:14] <penguin42> hth do you threaten court against the tax man?
[13:14] <SuperEngineer> ...a paranoid person might think this is them getting revenge]
[13:14] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: very politely & professionally
[13:14] <ali1234> a council once tried to take me to court over unpaid council tax
[13:14] <ali1234> first i heard about it was the summons
[13:15] <ali1234> i sent thema copy of the receipt for tax paid and a notice i would contest the charge
[13:15] <ali1234> they rapidly cancelled the summons and dropped the complaint
[13:15] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: in the days of poll tax I was a regular reader of Computer Weekly reg [was a programmer then] -0
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> ..it gave me the exact state of chaos of my local tax office pootersa every week
[13:16] <SuperEngineer> held back paymeny until last moment as passive protest - without danger ;)
[13:17] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: surprising how the stance of a persomn in the right - with proof of being right - frightens them
[13:18] <ali1234> it's not surprising at al
[13:18] <SuperEngineer> :)
[13:18] <ali1234> i find it is the best way to deal with bureaucracy
[13:18] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: +1
[13:18] <ali1234> if you are in the right, don't expend any more effort than necessary
[13:19] <ali1234> just give them enough rope to hang themselves with
[13:19] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: again +1 to that as well
[13:20] <SuperEngineer> So... anyone know if Leisure Suoite
[13:20] <SuperEngineer> damn!
[13:20] <ali1234> i got similar nonsense from the tv licensing people actually... at a different place though
[13:20] <ali1234> they claimed that i had to pay two tv licenses for 123A and 123B
[13:20] <ali1234> there was no A and B of course
[13:20] <ali1234> i just totally ignored that one
[13:21] <daftykins> 0o
[13:21] <daftykins> TV licensing is pretty frustrating
[13:21] <ali1234> since the letters didn't have my name on, just "the occupier" - to acknowledge them would validate their claim that those addresses actually existed
[13:21] <daftykins> indeed
[13:21] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: that made me literally lol!
[13:22] <ali1234> it makes me wonder though, how many vulnerable people with poor memory are paying TV license twice because of the scare tactics they use
[13:23] <penguin42> ali1234: Same with the tax guys - people get a letter saying they owe so much money on particular accounts, all looks official - then you start digging and find it's rubbish
[13:24] <ali1234> i've never had a problem with HMRC... yet
[13:24] <daftykins> our local tax is terrible
[13:24] <daftykins> take 5+ months to respond to letters calling out their mistakes
[13:25] <penguin42> ali1234: Lucky you
[13:29] <SuperEngineer> Thankyou for calling HMRC. Press 0 if you are calling about an ongoing problem. Now press 1 if it has been ongoing for 1 year, press 2 if it has been ongoing for 2 years, press 3...
[13:29] <penguin42> press z if you want to wait for another year
[13:29] <SuperEngineer> oh if only
[13:31] <SuperEngineer> On the bright side - you all owe me a vote of thanks for paying off the national debt all by myself
[13:33]  * penguin42 thought he was doing that
[13:33] <daftykins> not my government, sorry
[13:33] <SuperEngineer> no politics!
[13:34] <daftykins> i'm just saying i can't thank you when it's not my gov :)
[13:37] <ali1234> you know that rubbery coating then use on phones etc? what is it called?
[13:37] <ali1234> and why does it melt after a couple of years?
[13:38] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: it's called "notfireproofsodontleavemebytheheaterplease"
[13:38] <ali1234> it doesn't melt from heat
[13:38] <ali1234> it seems to react badly with skin oils
[13:38] <SuperEngineer> ooo - cold hands! - VAMPIRE ALERT
[13:39] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:39] <daftykins> eww
[13:39] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: skin  oils?  basic design flaw if so
[13:39] <ali1234> basically it dissolves into something roughly the same as when a rubber band melts into good
[13:39] <ali1234> yeah so what i want to do is find out what the hell the stuff is so i can find some other chemical to clean it off before it goes bad
[13:40] <penguin42> ali1234: I guess it's some kind of mixture of stuff and they eventually separate
[13:40] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: isopropyl alcohol?
[13:40] <ali1234> nope, doesn't work
[13:40] <ali1234> acetone works but damages the plastic underneath
[13:40] <SuperEngineer> [only guessing - not sure]
[13:41] <ali1234> when it goes bad it has the consistency of chewed chewing gum
[13:41] <SuperEngineer> olive oil?
[13:41] <SuperEngineer> ...with care
[13:41] <ali1234> maybe
[13:41] <MartijnVdS> you want to get rid of oils
[13:41] <penguin42> then soap?
[13:41] <ali1234> soap doesn't work
[13:42] <SuperEngineer> yup - that's how the Romans knew it cleared yukky stuff - but the oil needs removing cleaning
[13:42]  * penguin42 can see ali1234 taking his phone into the shop to be repaired and the tech smelling it
[13:42] <alistair> hello, there was a midi module different to snd-virmidi (which doesnt work once installed) which gives 16 internal midi through channels, does anybody know what it is called?
[13:42] <ali1234> it's never a problem on phones inside warranty
[13:42] <ali1234> it takes about 6-8 years to go bad
[13:43] <ali1234> but they are using it on everything these days
[13:43] <ali1234> i've got an electric drill which has it on the andle which is starting to go
[13:43] <MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coleman_fuel :)
[13:44] <SuperEngineer> on a drill handle try wet&dry / glass paper?
[13:44] <SuperEngineer> no delicates nearby to damage
[13:44] <ali1234> http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=159815.0
[13:44] <ali1234> ^ people describe the issue
[13:45] <ali1234> yeah sand paper doesn't work... it's like trying to sand paper chewing gum
[13:45] <ali1234> it just clogs the paper
[13:45]  * SuperEngineer scrubs that idea then
[13:45] <ali1234> the only way i know to get it off is to scrape it off with a knife and that still takes ages
[13:46] <SuperEngineer> Lixton fluid?
[13:46] <MartijnVdS> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_make_sticky_rubber_normal
[13:46] <penguin42> haha reference to Andromeda Strain
[13:46] <SuperEngineer> ;)
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> http://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-remove-a-sticky-surface-from-rubber/
[13:47] <ali1234> i wish they wouldn't use this stuff, whatever it is
[13:47] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: urethane rubber
[13:47] <SuperEngineer> Lixton fluid  =  real good at cleaning things like rubberised / synthesised rubberised products to remove all yuk
[13:47] <penguin42> I think I'd try and coat over it
[13:47] <ali1234> hmm so basically, ammonia
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: and even then it's only temporary
[13:48] <ali1234> it's not
[13:48] <ali1234> i have a few things which i have entirely stripped the coating off
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> it's not?
[13:48] <ali1234> underneath it's normal plastic
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> sure
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> but you can't "fix" the rubber
[13:48] <ali1234> i don't want to
[13:48] <MartijnVdS> not permanently anyway
[13:48] <ali1234> i want to remove it
[13:49] <ali1234> entirely
[13:49] <ali1234> the rubber is only a very very thin coating, probaby less than 0.1mm
[13:50] <ali1234> it serves no purpose at all other than to make the product feel like it is higher quality than it actually is
[13:50] <SuperEngineer> Lixton fluid  =  real good at cleaning things like rubberised / synthesised rubberised products to remove all yukthen
[13:50] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: change the casing - add external casing? forget the bad design underneath
[13:50] <SuperEngineer> ..or would that make phone /drill unuseable?
[13:51] <ali1234> pretty much
[13:51] <SuperEngineer> darn
[13:51] <MartijnVdS> replace the rubber with sugru :P
[13:52] <neuro> boing
[13:52] <ali1234> another example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12Pw8vHjgcw
[13:53] <neuro> of?
[13:53] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: a few years back I was on a course...
[13:53] <ali1234> neuro: melty rubber coating
[13:53] <neuro> ew, i'm *eating*
[13:54] <SuperEngineer> was related a tale about cleaning certain things [can't say]
[13:54] <ali1234> this guy sanded his mouse down
[13:54] <neuro> [stealth bombers]
[13:54] <penguin42> poor thing
[13:54] <ali1234> there should be a way to remove the rubber without damaging the plastic underneath
[13:54] <SuperEngineer> ...they sent a samble off to labs and asked for ways to clean without destroying
[13:55] <ali1234> i mean if the rubber is dissolving but the plastic underneath is fine, then there must be some solvent which will dissolve the rubber properly without harming the plastic
[13:55] <SuperEngineer> ...a long chemical formula was returned as the required "cleaner". response was - but what is that?
[13:55] <SuperEngineer> Mr Sheen cleaner!
[13:56] <SuperEngineer> ..idea: if you get the one with hard bits in , it might remove the rubber stuff
[13:56] <neuro> disgusting!
[13:56] <ali1234> i keep finding more and more stuff with this rubbery crap on it now i'm actually looking
[13:57] <ali1234> and nearly all of it is starting to go sticky
[13:57] <penguin42> definitely the andromeda strain
[13:57] <ali1234> the volume control knob on my speakers
[13:57] <ali1234> a load of pens with rubbery grips
[13:58] <ali1234> the nexus 7 back cover even has it
[13:58] <ali1234> that's not old enough to be melting yet
[13:58] <ali1234> but it will
[13:58] <penguin42> you probably find it's contagious - you transfer the goo off one of them to another via your hands and that starts the other one leaching
[13:58] <ali1234> very likely
[13:58] <SuperEngineer> ...and some car dashboard knobs have it
[13:58] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: and then the tyres....
[13:58] <ali1234> yeah that's the thing
[13:59] <ali1234> actual rubber objects seem unaffected
[13:59] <ali1234> only plastic objects with the thin coating seem affected
[13:59] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: you're driving far enough if your tyres desolves before wearing out!  ;)
[13:59] <ali1234> it could be because the thin layer easily breaks down
[13:59] <ali1234> or it could be a different type of rubber
[14:00] <ali1234> leather seems to accelerate the breakdown
[14:00] <ali1234> ie using a leather case on a phone
[14:00] <neuro> dammit
[14:00] <neuro> stupid kernel updates
[14:01] <SuperEngineer> ali1234: surely that's the friction effect with the leather outer?
[14:01] <ali1234> outer?
[14:01] <SuperEngineer> outer = case
[14:02] <SuperEngineer> [soz]
[14:02]  * penguin42 decides to finish off his sorbet, I don't think it's going to get warm again
[14:02] <ali1234> hmm maybe
[14:02] <ali1234> or it could be something to do with the tanning process, or it could even be fake plastic leather leeching chemicals
[14:02] <ali1234> latter probably more likely
[14:02] <SuperEngineer> agreed
[14:02]  * neuro sighs
[14:03] <daftykins> aww what's up neuro?
[14:03] <neuro> brought up my irc proxy vm
[14:03] <neuro> after migrating it to a new iscsi datastore
[14:03] <neuro> and it needed a kernel update :P
[14:03] <neuro> so had to do a reboot there
[14:04] <neuro> hence the grumble and discon/recon
[14:04] <neuro> but oh how i love esxi :)
[14:04] <daftykins> ^_^
[14:04] <daftykins> you run one at home?
[14:04] <neuro> two
[14:05] <neuro> but i've migrated everything off local datastores onto a synology nas iscsi target
[14:05] <neuro> so i can shut one down
[14:05] <neuro> electricity-- ftw
[14:06] <daftykins> two at home, crikey
[14:06] <SuperEngineer> whoops - promised neighbour I'd go for a drink with - see yazall in an hour[ish] folkjs
[14:06] <daftykins> what are you running there :P
[14:06] <daftykins> SuperEngineer: hf
[14:07] <neuro> daftykins: not much: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/13137/grabs/Screen%20Shot%202013-08-04%20at%2015.06.09.png
[14:07] <daftykins> :)
[14:07] <daftykins> nice little testbed i see
[14:07] <neuro> not really
[14:07] <daftykins> no?
[14:08] <daftykins> also i don't think you've got enough in the system tray
[14:08] <neuro> cochrane is my irc proxy and LAN dhcpd, copernicus is an old test win98 vm, fearless is my old mail server, hathaway is my server config master host and BT ingress box, intrepid is my general shell box and Sky ingress box, memoryalpha is me thinking about replacing intrepid, shenandoah ... no idea what that was ;) and wormhole-gw is my main pfsense router for the house
[14:10] <neuro> so it's more production that lab
[14:10] <neuro> s/that/than/
[14:10] <daftykins> what are the physical systems hosting them?
[14:10] <neuro> my old one is a dell dimension 5150 (Pentium D 2.8GHz, 4G RAM but only 3.2G visible)
[14:11] <neuro> the main one is some random zoostorm thing off ebuyer, Pentium G840 2.8GHz, 16G RAM
[14:11] <neuro> intel dual GigE NIC on the old one, three intel GigE NICs on the new one, internal NICs disabled on both
[14:11] <neuro> and now a synology ds213j acting as datastore
[14:12] <neuro> which is nice </fastshow>
[14:13] <daftykins> :)
[14:13] <daftykins> pretty elaborate stuff for home
[14:14] <neuro> not in my opinion
[14:14] <neuro> elaborate would have been to spend 500 quid on vsphere starter edition and built up a proper cluster
[14:14] <daftykins> well i've got a file server that runs VMs, but it's a single box with vmware workstation atop it
[14:14] <penguin42> neuro: Are you multipathing the iscsi?
[14:14] <neuro> yeah, i didn't want my VMs to have a lot of OS underneath them
[14:14] <daftykins> having two boxes sounds like you're going for redundancy too XD
[14:14] <neuro> penguin42: not to my knowledge, no
[14:15] <neuro> daftykins: it's just a timeline thing
[14:15] <neuro> have been running the old dell since ~ 2009
[14:15] <neuro> got the zoostorm last year
[14:15] <neuro> always wanted to transition from one to t'other
[14:15] <neuro> only really got the impetus to do it now
[14:15] <neuro> also cheap nas
[14:16] <neuro> now i can turn off the old one for the first time in about 4 years (power cut in april notwithstanding)
[14:16] <daftykins> :)
[14:18] <neuro> in fact i've just powered it off
[14:18] <neuro> \o/
[14:18] <daftykins> you want a UPS there :)
[14:18] <neuro> heh yeah
[14:18] <penguin42> neuro: I got one of those zoostorm's for my dad - not bad for the price
[14:19] <neuro> penguin42: they're rubbish
[14:19] <neuro> the RAM was bad from the get go
[14:19] <neuro> didn't care that much as I was replacing it anyway
[14:19] <neuro> and the hard drive is failing
[14:19] <daftykins> 0o
[14:19] <neuro> which is partly why i wanted the VMs off the local storage
[14:19] <penguin42> neuro: Oh I think one of the DIMMs had bounced in transit - was fine when I pushed it back in
[14:19] <neuro> now i can replace the HDD with the 500G WD Black I bought at same time as NAS
[14:19] <neuro> do a full reinstall of ESXi
[14:20] <neuro> and then re-add the VMs to inventory from the iSCSI target
[14:20] <daftykins> heh, yeah that's generally how it works ;)
[14:20] <neuro> penguin42: no, they were *bad*, i.e. proper bad, i.e. failed a memtest
[14:21] <neuro> daftykins: wouldn't have minded so much, as my important data (like homedirs etc) gets mounted onto my VMs over NFS from my other NASes
[14:21] <neuro> but it would cause my router VM to cark it every couple of weeks
[14:21] <neuro> lots of weird disk timeout errors on the esxi logs
[14:22] <neuro> so that's the point where i really got driven to migrating everything onto network storage, and consolidate the VMs on one machine
[14:22] <neuro> but the replacing HDD job shall wait until next w/e :)
[14:23]  * neuro spies a fellow he.net tunnelbroker user :)
[14:23] <neuro> 2001:470:1f09:... ;)
[15:44]  * penguin42 goes through a ubuntu-kernel config - are there ANY ubuntu arcnet users?
[15:45] <penguin42> and calxeda drivers built on x86
[16:04] <penguin42> gah I searched for a spare part for my dads razor and now I've got a spare part site offering me entirely random sets of spares for anything
[16:07] <daftykins> :(
[16:07] <daftykins> so many spammy sites that waste your time when trying to do such things now
[16:07] <daftykins> like those google results that link to somebody searching for <x> on their site ¬_¬
[16:08] <penguin42> nod
[16:08] <penguin42> to be fair I think the site did actually have the thing I wanted - but more than amazon so I bought it from amazon
[16:08] <penguin42> but now they're going to try and sell me it for months
[16:10] <neuro> it's the sites that purport to have loads of user manuals on them that wind me up
[16:12] <daftykins> ah yes
[16:17] <neuro> edge is now $5.9m off the pace :(
[16:18] <penguin42> neuro: Just have to see if Mark puts the remainder in at the end
[16:18] <neuro> ha
[16:18] <penguin42> ...or the devs employed on it
[16:18] <neuro> "New tier: sabdfl-only tier, $32m - $however_much_is_in_the_kitty"
[16:19] <daftykins> someone was saying he'd end up putting in tonnes even if it hit the limit
[16:19] <daftykins> so he can't really finish it himself
[16:20] <neuro> 25% raised with 41% campaign time passed
[16:20] <daftykins> still crawling along i see
[16:20] <neuro> if it completes, it vindicates the choice of crowdfunding
[16:21] <neuro> if it fails and nothing happens afterwards, it says crowdfunding was a bad choice
[16:21] <neuro> if it fails and sabdfl funds the shortfall, it still says crowdfunding was a bad choice
[16:21] <daftykins> would it not be more of a reflection on the product?
[16:21] <neuro> i don't think so
[16:21] <penguin42> neuro: Well the other question to ask is where the $32M figure came from
[16:21] <neuro> there's plenty of interest in the phone
[16:21] <neuro> exactly
[16:22] <neuro> there's been no real breakdown or explanation as to how the money would be spent
[16:22] <neuro> other than "it'll all go to make the phones" (paraphrase)
[16:22] <neuro> and imho the campaign has been badly mishandled
[16:22] <neuro> with all these random tiers being introduced at odd times
[16:22] <neuro> and the t-shirts ... *facepalm*
[16:24] <neuro> oh and the best bit, if they make $32m on the nose, they won't really have $32m in hand (indiegogo fees aside)
[16:24] <penguin42> why?
[16:24] <neuro> because they're refunding the difference between the $830 cost and the lower cost
[16:24] <penguin42> neuro: I mean I assume there was some slack in it to ensure they had enough to do what they wanted
[16:25] <neuro> but we have no idea
[16:25] <neuro> because there's no outline of how the funding will be deployed
[16:25] <daftykins> almost time for LAS
[16:26] <neuro> and it seems (but it's not clear) that only those who bought the $3830 perk *before* the graduated tier limit was introduced will get refunded
[16:26] <neuro> so if you buy an $830 one now, you won't get anything back
[16:26] <neuro> it's all very confusing
[16:26] <penguin42> neuro: I guess some of it is rightly commercially confidential - like how much you have to pay to factories to make things or design whatever
[16:26] <neuro> but they have a "habit of openness and transparency"
[16:27] <neuro> it's all very weird to me
[16:27] <penguin42> yeh but I can see there being limits to that; you wouldn't put peoples salaries up there and you couldn't put how much you were prepared to pay vendors because then you couldn't negotiate for cheaper
[16:28] <neuro> you can guesstimate though
[16:28] <neuro> but that's all we can do
[16:28] <neuro> and do you really think they don't already have a manufacturer lined up?
[16:29] <neuro> "we have experienced operators and manufacturing partners in place"
[16:29] <neuro> "We’ve been working with manufacturers and carriers, so everything we need is already in place. We also have a team based in Taiwan where the bulk of the production will occur"
[16:29] <neuro> they don't need to bid amongst manus to get cheaper pricing
[16:29] <neuro> they know who they're working with
[16:29] <neuro> so they'll know the costs
[16:30] <neuro> otherwise, why stick a finger in the air and say "ummmm ... $32m?"
[16:30] <penguin42> it's a power of 2?
[16:30] <neuro> i really don't want to fund a manufacturing project with a product as an end goal that makes geek jokes out of the funding level, especially at *that* amount :)
[16:31] <neuro> i don't know ... as much as I like Canonical and want them to succeed at all things, especially Ubuntu-related ones, I think this is a clusterfrak waiting to happen
[16:32] <penguin42> neuro: Not sure, I mean they're going high spec so it'll certainly push some tech along so that could be good - I won't be buying one because I'm too mean
[16:32] <neuro> i won't be buying one because I prefer the iOS ecosystem, and I don't have the spare cash to blow on a phone just to play on
[16:32] <neuro> if I'm buying a phone now, I'm buying it to use every day
[16:33] <neuro> been burned by buying random phones in the past (hello Nokia E71, Samsung Galaxy S2)
[16:33] <daftykins> what was wrong with the S2? they seem quite capable smartphones even toda
[16:33] <daftykins> y
[16:33]  * penguin42 has an £80 android phone
[16:33] <neuro> hated it
[16:34] <neuro> screen too unwieldy, too plasticky, battery life awful, nasty OS, etc etc
[16:35] <daftykins> hah
[16:35] <neuro> oh, and syncing to/from my mac with kies was a total joke
[16:35] <daftykins> it's had a fair few updates of android over the years
[16:36] <daftykins> if you tried to use their software to sync rather than the native device accounts, then you're kinda asking for trouble
[16:36] <neuro> um, ok?
[16:36] <neuro> that's a bad indictment of the ecosytem then, isn't it?
[16:36] <daftykins> unless it was just files, like music you were syncing
[16:37] <neuro> "buy this awesome phone, but don't use the manufacturer supplied PC/Mac software"
[16:37] <neuro> it was all sorts of stuff including some music
[16:37] <daftykins> no it's not, because Samsung Kies has nothing to do with Android
[16:37] <neuro> but it has everything to do with a Samsung Galaxy S2
[16:37] <neuro> how is Average Joe Phone User supposed to tell the difference?
[16:38] <daftykins> i think they'd be more inclined to just paste to the folders :)
[16:38] <neuro> not if they're told otherwise
[16:38] <neuro> e.g. by the instruction manual, the phone, the manufacturer ...
[16:39] <daftykins> i don't tend to consider inexperienced users
[16:39] <neuro> then you're being selective to suit the needs of your argument
[16:39] <daftykins> and you're not by choosing a user type to begin with?
[16:39] <neuro> i was pointing out the most common type of user
[16:39] <daftykins> also it's a discussion not an argument :D
[16:40] <neuro> argument. n. A fact or statement used to support a proposition; a reason.
[16:40] <daftykins> seems a bit extreme to get down to dictionary definitions
[16:40] <neuro> i didn't say we were having *a* argument :)
[16:41] <daftykins> true
[16:41] <neuro> you're twisting the meaning of the word, it seemed a reasonable thing to do
[16:41] <daftykins> we've somewhat tangented now though
[16:41] <neuro> well, *you* did ;)
[16:41] <neuro> making me use wiktionary for goodness sake ;)
[16:41] <daftykins> ultimately i think a judgement of a phone based on one poor software utility it comes with that might be useful for some uses is a bit weak
[16:41]  * neuro sighs
[16:42] <daftykins> problem? :)
[16:42] <Myrtti> "I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices. I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices. I will not buy non-Nexus Android devices." etc.
[16:42] <neuro> kies being crap was one data point from many
[16:42] <neuro> or did you not read what I wrote?
[16:42] <daftykins> oh yeah you did have other things
[16:42] <neuro> "screen too unwieldy, too plasticky, battery life awful, nasty OS, etc etc"
[16:42] <daftykins> Myrtti: too true
[16:42] <Myrtti> (main reason why I don't is because I loathe the extra stuff the manufacturers smack on the Android, like the necessity of using stupid apps to do interaction between phone and computer
[16:42] <Myrtti> )
[16:43] <neuro> Myrtti: it was a good deal at the time
[16:43] <penguin42> Myrtti: I put cyanogenmod on my cheap phone - actually that's one reason I bought it
[16:43] <daftykins> android back then is quite different to android today
[16:43] <neuro> i wanted a non-personal phone to use for business stuff
[16:43] <neuro> ended up upgrading to an iphone 4s and using my old iphone 4 for that purpose
[16:44] <daftykins> i could never get on with iOS, it's pretty terrible at feedback
[16:46] <neuro> feedback?
[16:46] <daftykins> yeah, like whether it's working on a process or not
[16:47] <neuro> um
[16:47] <neuro> ok?
[16:47] <daftykins> you're pretty rude neuro.
[16:47] <neuro> i'm not, you're just being economical with the things you're saying :)
[16:47] <daftykins> sometimes it'll just sit there like you didn't do anything, then maybe flash an error ages afterwards if you're for example - setting up an email account or something similar
[16:48] <daftykins> same with a lot of OS X software in fact
[16:48] <daftykins> there's very little visual representation that it's 'working'
[16:49] <neuro> i just set up a mail account on my phone
[16:50] <neuro> i got a spinner with text telling me what it was doing when it was doing stuff
[16:50] <neuro> "Verifying ..."
[16:50] <neuro> "Adding account ..."
[16:50] <daftykins> hah
[16:50] <neuro> and usually when there is network activity while it's doing Stuff, a spinner appears in the top status bar
[16:51] <daftykins> depends what OS versions we're talking i guess
[16:51] <neuro> hah?
[16:51] <neuro> whatever the latest greatest is
[16:51] <neuro> it's always done that IME
[16:51] <daftykins> well surely you can see the futility of that one comparison
[16:51] <neuro> nope?
[16:52] <daftykins> seriously?
[16:52] <neuro> enlighten me then?
[16:52] <daftykins> i don't know, i'm not sure that that would be a valid use of time
[16:52] <neuro> so you're telling me i'm wrong because you say so?
[16:52] <daftykins> ultimately it boils down to the 'it works for me'
[16:53] <neuro> excuse me while i don't put much weight on that :)
[16:53] <neuro> you said the feedback was terrible
[16:53] <neuro> i just ran through the scenario you mentioned
[16:53] <neuro> the feedback seemed acceptable (yes, to me)
[16:53] <Myrtti> so, who's awaiting for the new doctor then?
[16:53] <neuro> i'm not sure how much more feedback would have been required
[16:54] <daftykins> neuro: right but you're making a big jump to assume that what you're seeing is what i was seeing in my example
[16:54] <daftykins> neuro: if you were working on a bug tracker would you tell all the people that their bugs are invalid because it 'works for me' ? :P
[16:54] <neuro> sure, but i'm not sure how much different it could have been to be honest
[16:55] <neuro> it would depend how many people responded with "works for me"
[16:55] <neuro> and that's sometimes a valid response, as it permits responders and the submitter to work in different directions to find out what the root cause is, since it's either a non-repeatable issue or something wrong with the submitter's system
[16:56] <neuro> s/repeatable/reproducable/ is what i meant to say there
[16:56] <Myrtti> no one?
[16:56] <neuro> Myrtti: couldn't care less tbh
[16:56] <daftykins> Myrtti: not a fan i'm afraid
[16:56] <neuro> i've gone right off who lately
[16:56] <Myrtti> so a duck walked into a pub
[16:56] <daftykins> quack.
[16:56] <neuro> especially with their DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN end to the last episode
[16:56] <neuro> LET'S PUT TEXT ALL OVER THE SCREEN, THAT WILL BE AWESOME
[16:56] <neuro> childish
[16:57] <daftykins> 0o
[16:57] <daftykins> you are an odd one
[16:57] <neuro> excuse me?
[16:57] <Myrtti> and the barkeep asked what he wanted, and the duck said a beer please
[16:58] <Myrtti> having served the beer to the duck he asked "how are you going to pay for it, you don't have pockets for the money"
[16:58] <Myrtti> "put it on my bill"
[16:58] <neuro> saw that coming a mile away :D
[16:58] <Myrtti> yeah, that was kinda the point
[16:58] <neuro> daftykins: please do elaborate on why i'm "odd"
[16:59] <neuro> Myrtti: a horse walks into a bar
[16:59] <daftykins> probably safer if i leave it there
[16:59] <Myrtti> a photon walks into a hotel
[16:59] <daftykins> plus LAS has almost started
[16:59] <neuro> no, really
[16:59] <neuro> i'm interested
[17:00] <Myrtti> "do you have any luggage, sir?" "no, I'm traveling light"
[17:00] <neuro> ha
[17:00] <penguin42> neuro: Actually, the horse walked into a macdonalds: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-23403935
[17:00] <neuro> what the ...
[17:01] <neuro> why not tie up the horses and go inside?
[17:01] <neuro> were they planning on eating their mcdonalds while riding away from the drive through?!
[17:01] <daftykins> it was a complaint about the policy regarding drive-throughs
[17:01] <daftykins> because you have to be in a car, which is quite frankly retarded
[17:01] <Myrtti> so a motorbike wouldn't be allowed then?
[17:02] <neuro> the drive through lane is for motor vehicles
[17:02] <daftykins> motorbikes aren't allowed either from what i remember reading, nah
[17:02] <neuro> some mcdonalds now have the lanes blocked off on the other side from the restaurant by parts of the car prk
[17:02] <daftykins> i only briefly encountered this thing when i was at Uni
[17:02] <daftykins> 'cause we don't have mcdonalds etc. down here
[17:03] <daftykins> so i thought to myself once, hey why does the drive-through stay open later? can i cycle over and queue up? apparently not
[17:03] <daftykins> never tried though
[17:03] <neuro> http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/whatmakesmcdonalds/questions/running-the-business/drive-thru/why-cant-you-serve-pedestrians-at-the-drive-thru.html
[17:04] <neuro> and yes, they serve people on bikes and mopeds
[17:04] <neuro> just not pedestrians or bicycles
[17:04] <neuro> or horses
[17:07] <daftykins> pretty daft imo
[17:07] <neuro> not really
[17:07] <neuro> insurance rationale most likely
[17:07] <neuro> the hassle if someone got hit by a car in the drive through lane would likely be epic
[17:08] <neuro> best just to have it laid down by policy that you can only be served from a motor vehicle
[17:08] <daftykins> it's common sense daft
[17:08] <daftykins> not bureacratic crap daft
[17:08] <neuro> it's common sense, full stop
[17:08] <daftykins> :)
[17:08] <daftykins> hah
[17:08] <daftykins> wow you really are a one.
[17:08] <daftykins> k i'm off to other channels
[17:08] <neuro> what's your deal, sir?
[17:08] <neuro> are you trolling me or something?
[17:10] <neuro> clearly, the answer was "yes"
[17:12] <daftykins> lmao
[17:23] <penguin42> apparently they were worried that horses might be startled by the motor vehicles
[17:52] <shauno> a bit late to the party, but I used to walk-thru kfc's drive-thru
[18:03] <penguin42> so we have reference data for mcdonalds and kfc - any others?
[18:03] <penguin42> shauno: Did you try it on a horse?
[18:18] <shauno> insufficiently equipped for the task I'm afraid
[18:24] <daftykins> horses=0
[18:26] <SuperEngineer> ...and the new Dr. Who is.... @linus_torvalds - & will be known as "the swearing Dr". [just pipped Mark Shuttleworth! at the post apparently]
[18:33] <ali1234> i would watch that
[18:34] <ali1234> it's the guy from luther though right?
[18:36] <MooDoo> lol
[18:38] <ali1234> i guess not
[18:42]  * penguin42 wiggles finger wildly trying to get something to crash on a touchscreen
[18:43] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: take that finger out of there of there you naughty person!
[18:43] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: But I was making my (x)eyes go crosseyed!
[18:43] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: :D
[18:46] <SuperEngineer> Has anyone tried Leisure Suite Larry on Steam in Ubuntu yet?
[18:47]  * penguin42 notes IMDBs entry for Peter Capaldi states that in World War Z he played the W.H.O. Doctor
[18:47] <SuperEngineer> [as in - does it l=play or would I be wasting my pennies?]
[18:47] <SuperEngineer> *play
[18:48] <SuperEngineer> penguin42: that's good/clever research. like it!
[18:49] <penguin42> SuperEngineer: You have to wonder if they knew that when they cast him
[18:49] <ali1234> i still can't figure out what was supposed to have happened in the last two series
[18:53] <penguin42> ali1234: You weren't supposed to , you were just supposed to have watched it
[18:54] <ali1234> i feel like i missed an episode
[18:54] <ali1234> or several
[18:56] <ali1234> actually come to think of it's been that way since david tennant
[18:57] <neuro> can't wait for all the kiddies to go googling for peter capaldi ... this is the first video that shows up in the results: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjAyazqtQj8
[18:57] <neuro> danger, tis a malcolm tucker video
[18:57] <neuro> hence VERY VERY sweary
[18:57] <neuro> but VERY VERY good
[18:59] <neuro> for less sweariness, i leave you with the happy plane: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zVVKXT8Vi0
[20:22] <directhex> hm, neil gaiman retweets ubuntu edge
[20:23] <directhex> that's gotta be worth a few thou
[21:10] <bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)


[00:55] <valorie> http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/2018/02/heading-out-of-winter-and-into-spring.html
[00:55] <valorie> off to pflag in a min
 Hello friends
 It's been a sad period, and I have been kept very busy with Family Matters
 Many apologies for not being able to run the Feb Podcast.
 I'll be getting back into the swing of things next week, and pushing things forward again
 @Sick_Rimmit fully understand. do things at your own pace
 I appreciate you guys understanding, I feel bad for being so flakky, but just happens sometime
 😞
 life just happens
 oh god. it does. don't feel even slightly bad!
[21:13] <valorie> oh Rick {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{[hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
[21:13] <valorie> how are you?
[21:15] <valorie> oh, hours ago
 https://twitter.com/asknoahshow/status/961313613481783296
[23:31] <valorie> huh
[23:31] <valorie> voted anyway


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[18:48] <jbicha> ricotz: well I guess the next Thunderbird stable release for sure won't make initial 18.04 release, since 60 is next ESR


 @myfenris, nothing in plasma depends on mysql
 opss sorry .... i mean akonadi
 it seems that you can't build against 5.7 any more, so seems we might
 @RikMills, anyone already take in the milestone?
 not that I know of
 1st thing. see if it even builds!
 Looks like mysql 8 breaks akonadi
[10:35] <RikMills> mariadb works
[10:35] <RikMills> hmmmm
[11:49] <BluesKaj> Howdy all
[16:07] <RikMills> santa_: akonadi doesn't start with mysql-8.0 that landed in release last night. I think I will switch us to mariadb by default? that works
[16:08] <RikMills> Opensuse/arch/debian all default to that now
[16:08] <RikMills> tested an upgrade with an existing database, and it seemed ok
 @RikMills, i've tried before .. then i rollback to 5.7
 @RikMills, owh ...
 if current using mysql 5.7 .. then akonadi change default to mariadb .. is it will auto migrate from mysql to mariadb ? or i need to rebuild akonadi again
[17:13] <RikMills> it seemed to be able to run with either
[17:13] <RikMills> new installs would have mariadb. existing ones mysql for now
 @RikMills, so i need to install mariadb to make it work after upgrading mysql 8?
[17:15] <RikMills> yes, I couldn't get it to work with mysql-8.0
 it will auto reindexing kmail into akonadi - mariadb ?
[17:15] <RikMills> I think so
[17:16] <IrcsomeBot1> * myfenris let me try
 okie .. its remove all the 5.7 related :)
 mariadb cant start :(
[17:29] <RikMills> it started ok in a Eoan VM
 Aug 24 01:25:39 X240 systemd[1]: Starting MariaDB 10.3.17 database server... … Aug 24 01:25:40 X240 mysqld[14375]: 2019-08-24  1:25:40 0 [Note] /usr/sbin/mysqld (mysqld 10.3.17-MariaDB-1) starting as process 14375 ... … Aug 24 01:27:09 X240 systemd[1]: mariadb.service: Start operation timed out. Terminating. … Aug 24 01:27:10 X240 systemd[1]: mariadb.service: Failed with result 'timeout'. … Aug 24 01:27:10 X240 systemd
[17:31] <IrcsomeBot1> Failed to start MariaDB 10.3.17 database server.
 cant purge mysql else will removed all related packages with mysql
[17:32] <crydotsnake-M> What is the problem
 are you using KCI?
 @RikMills, yups
 kci stable
 @myfenris, that has a newer akonadi than eoan, so might need things like an apparmor tweak
 @RikMills, is it causing the mariadb cant start ?
 @myfenris, quite probably. Neon had to do an apparmor rule change when akonadi 19.08 landed
 can advised what should i do ?
 or reference site that i can follow about the apparmor .. let me search
 um. seems we have that change from Neon. I will have to investigate more
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/THXWcZqWWw/
 I'll have to set up a KCI VM
 reinstalling 5.7 also failed to start :(
 what is the output of 'akonadictl start'
[18:02] <blaze> usually it helps to delete the index file
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/p8Xv3DjNxc/
 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mariadb-10.1/+bug/1806263
 is this the one u mention related to apparmor ?
 that is something else
 okie sorry
 @RikMills can u share your /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysqld ?
 @RikMills, 👆🏻
 https://git.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-packagers/kubuntu-packaging/+git/akonadi/tree/debian/usr.sbin.mysqld-akonadi?h=kubuntu_eoan_archive
 I am remaking the VM at the moment. will have to be later
 it was emptied on my usr.sbin.mysqld
 apparmor="DENIED" shown on the log
 i guess its the cause
 does it work if you put it in complain mode?
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/vdc3Cp8wF7/
 oh, that is usr.sbin.mysqld, not usr.sbin.mysqld-akonadi
 okie ..
 just managed to get it work
 adding :
 in the apparmor
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/4TZ5CgGSST/
 akonadi server cant start
 https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8SJZw8hyCD/
 not good
 @RikMills, mean ?
 I don't think that is related to apparmor
 @RikMills, the akonadi ?
 i added 1 line in apparmor then mariadb can start
 but now akonadi still not working ..
 using mariadb
 hmmm after restart
 Aug 24 03:27:05 X240 kernel: [  355.233451] audit: type=1400 audit(1566588425.028:192): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="/usr/sbin/mysqld" name="/etc/ld.so.cache" pid=19178 comm="mysqld" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=135 ouid=0 … Aug 24 03:27:05 X240 kernel: [  355.233523] audit: type=1400 audit(1566588425.028:193): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="/usr/sbin/mysqld"
[19:28] <IrcsomeBot1> name="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liblz4.so.1.9.1" pid=19178 comm="mysqld" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=135 ouid=0
 the line added not working :(
 sudo apt-get install apparmor-utils
[19:31] <ejat> apparmor-utils is already the newest version (2.13.2-9ubuntu7)
 sudo aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysql-akonadi
[19:33] <ejat> $ sudo aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysql-akonadi
[19:33] <ejat> Profile for /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysql-akonadi not found, skipping
 maybe I mistyped
[19:34] <ejat> $ sudo aa-complain /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysqld-akonadi
[19:34] <ejat> Setting /etc/apparmor.d/usr.sbin.mysqld-akonadi to complain mode.
[19:35] <ejat> but now .. my mariadb can't start :(
[19:37] <RikMills> wtf?
 (Photo, 1280x760) https://irc-attachments.kde.org/nTMYRR4S/file_17364.jpg
 In my Eoan ^^^
 after switching to mariadb
[19:39] <ejat> can u share your usr.sbin.mysqld
[19:39] <ejat> or whats in it
 there isn't one, which is correct for mariadb
[19:42] <ejat> Aug 24 03:42:04 X240 kernel: [ 1254.831902] audit: type=1400 audit(1566589324.606:196): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="/usr/sbin/mysqld" name="/etc/ld.so.cache" pid=3309 comm="mysqld" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=135 ouid=0
[19:42] <ejat> Aug 24 03:42:04 X240 kernel: [ 1254.831949] audit: type=1400 audit(1566589324.606:197): apparmor="DENIED" operation="open" profile="/usr/sbin/mysqld" name="/usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/liblz4.so.1.9.1" pid=3309 comm="mysqld" requested_mask="r" denied_mask="r" fsuid=135 ouid=0
[19:42] <ejat> when i want to start mariadb
 do you have a usr.sbin.mysqld still?
 @RikMills, removed that 1 line i added ..
 you should lose the whole profile with mariadb
[19:49] <ejat> i asked in ubuntu-server ..
[19:56] <RikMills> might be an idea. it all just works here for me!!
[19:57] <ejat> what is it ..
[19:57] <crydotsnake-M> I tested the Kubuntu 19.10 Iso Today, and everything was working just fine :)
[20:02] <RikMills> crydotsnake-M: great. thanks!
[20:02] <crydotsnake-M> No Problem! :). I just want to help :)))