[10:49] <Madpilot> Um, a seperate Ubuntu art forum
[10:49] <Madpilot> ?
[10:52] <Burgundavia> Madpilot: art forum?
[10:52] <Madpilot> Burgundavia, proposed idea on the -art ML
[10:53] <Burgundavia> oh, madness, unless it is part of ubuntuforums
[10:53] <Madpilot> who knows... I didn't point out the Marketing team's experiment w/ seperate forums - you might want to...
[10:55] <Burgundavia> not subscribed to the art list anymore
[10:55] <Burgundavia> too noisy
[12:11] <huwshimi> Hi. Just a quick question. What's the correct protocol for submitting artwork for Edgy?
[12:12] <kwwii> huwshimi: post it on the wiki or send a link in a mail to the list
[12:13] <huwshimi> On this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Produce/Incoming/?
[12:14] <kwwii> that seems to be the right page
[12:15] <huwshimi> Ok. I might send an email first. Thanks very much kwwii.
[12:16] <kwwii> huwshimi: no problem, glad to be of help :-)
[01:34] <huwshimi> Hi all again. I have just made some artwork that I would like to propose for Egdy Eft, but before I add it to incoming I thought I'd find out what you guys thought. You can check it out here: http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/
[01:39] <andreasn> huwshimi: dude, that is totally nice work
[01:41] <andreasn> the glassy logo looks a bit weird together with the flat patterns though
[01:47] <huwshimi> Thanks. Yeah I was trying to follow the guidelines on this page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Specs/EdgyArtworkPlan/Propose/Results
[01:48] <andreasn> hm, is this technically possible now? http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/screenshot_splash.png
[01:48] <andreasn> anyway, sweet stuff
[01:49] <huwshimi> andreasn: Yes! That's a real screenshot.
[01:49] <andreasn> wow, cool
[01:49] <huwshimi> andreasn: So worth adding to incoming?
[01:49] <andreasn> huwshimi: I have no idea, I mostly idle here
[01:50] <andreasn> huwshimi: I haven't followed the artwork development closeley
[01:50] <andreasn> this release
[01:50] <huwshimi> andreasn: OK, no problems
[02:01] <msikma> Hey everybody
[02:52] <Viper550> Hello everyone...
[03:14] <Viper550> kwwii, still there? I'm concerned about styles
[03:22] <kwwii> man, don't leave 5 minutes after askng a question
[04:58] <troy_s> greetings all.
[04:58] <kwwii> hi troy_s
[04:58] <troy_s> how is it going kwwii?
[05:00] <kwwii> troy_s: pretty good, drawing some icons...how about you?
[05:01] <troy_s> well time is ticking out for me.
[05:01] <troy_s> chat in a few minutes... family beckons.
[05:04] <kwwii> hehe, have fun :-)
[05:10] <msikma> Hi everybody
[05:10] <msikma> Been a while since I've taken a look in here.
[05:11] <kwwii> hi msikma
[05:11] <msikma> I had food poisoning a while back, so I was out for a few days. :(
[05:29] <troy_s> msikma that is NO good
[05:29] <troy_s> food poisoning stinks
[05:29] <msikma> Yeah, it'll take some time before I trust another milkshake.
[05:30] <troy_s> eek
[05:30] <msikma> By the way, I've been doing some experimenting with the GTK like you requested, using those scans you sent me to help figure out a palette.
[05:31] <msikma> I'll still need some more time to finalize it but here's one of those tests: http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/ubuntu-humannew.png
[05:31] <troy_s> Have you figured out how the colours work?
[05:32] <troy_s> I believe the metacity pulls the colours from the GTKrc
[05:32] <troy_s> and divides them etc...
[05:32] <msikma> Yeah, all you need to change around are the hex values in the gtkrc.
[05:33] <msikma> Anyway, talk to you a little later.
[05:34] <troy_s> if you have them mapped
[05:34] <troy_s> msikma
[05:34] <troy_s> could you wiki your findings?
[05:34] <troy_s> i started experimenting last night
[05:34] <troy_s> but couldn't finish
[05:34] <troy_s> basically, if you can use widget factory to draw a 'map'
[05:34] <troy_s> of where each colour lands, i will try to make up a corresponding
[05:34] <msikma> Oh, mainly I just copied all the hex values into a Photoshop document and did the manipulation from there. I haven't figured out which value belongs to which aspect of the design. The "easy way out".
[05:34] <troy_s> gimp palette with names so that people can plug and play
[05:35] <troy_s> well yes...
[05:35] <troy_s> i know ONE value,
[05:35] <troy_s> absolutely
[05:35] <troy_s> the real strange thing is that the window border
[05:35] <troy_s> value shows up in the theme switcher
[05:35] <troy_s> but not when you load the corresponding theme...
[05:35] <troy_s> so i still need to research it a bit.
[05:35] <troy_s> J. Krause's work is quite impressive.
[05:35] <troy_s> Although I suggest you use the RGB values
[05:36] <troy_s> as they come up true to the images
[05:36] <troy_s> the CMYK is obviously targetting print so are a little more bright
[05:38] <troy_s> msikma, you should also note that some of the details are 'attached' in clearlooks so your mock might not be able to meet the xml requirements
[05:38] <troy_s> as in the border shadow will probably colour something else, which means you need to localize them.
[05:40] <troy_s> wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation has some good links for references.
[05:40] <troy_s> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials/GtkThemes
[05:40] <troy_s> being one of them
[06:55] <Seveas> troy_s, I'm now working on making creating usplash themes easier
[07:28] <msikma> troy_s: how do you mean? That's a live screenshot, not a mock-up.
[07:32] <troy_s> msikma sorry lost
[07:32] <troy_s> seveas great.  can you look at that logout translucent box cairo issue?
[07:32] <Seveas> It's on my todo list
[07:33] <Seveas> but usplash needs a bit more work to be usable
[07:33] <troy_s> did you get any ppc response yet?
[07:33] <troy_s> it would be nice to know exactly what we can design for.
[07:51] <msikma> Hmm, maybe I should try out what you suggested on the mailing list earlier, Troy, concerning usplash
[07:52] <msikma> http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/radial_light.gif I made an updated version of what I showed earlier.
[07:52] <msikma> By the way, this is how I think we should do glossy/shiny objects: http://www.gamingw.net/pubaccess/28695/base.png
[07:57] <BHSPitLappy> nice
[07:58] <troy_s> msikma it would be nice to see it as a spotlight -- just to compare
[07:58] <troy_s> also, for consistency, i would look to the default folder icon, the arrows, etc, for the curve radius on the logo
[07:58] <troy_s> there are a good number of icons that implement the curvature
[07:58] <msikma> Like how you explained on the list, with the radial light being replaced by a gradient blob?
[07:59] <troy_s> we sort of talked about  a 'spotlight' in paris
[07:59] <msikma> I actually never really believed in that kind of curvature, to be honest.
[07:59] <troy_s> msikma -- i agree.  but unfortunately, it is a constraint we need to work within as the icons will not change.
[08:00] <troy_s> anything that butts up against it will simply tear the cohereancy apart.
[08:00] <troy_s> i plan on working on a design spec for ubun2
[08:00] <msikma> I'd rather fix what I believe is a suboptimal type of art element than keep on using it for consistency reasons.
[08:01] <troy_s> it is hard to fix though because the icons wont change
[08:01] <troy_s> as per sabdfl.
[08:01] <troy_s> he is open to changing them if we manage to deliver a full set
[08:01] <troy_s> that he approves of.
[08:01] <troy_s> but until then, i believe our work goes a long way to making the default look more cohesive by buying into it... perhaps making it as good as you can.
[08:01] <msikma> Someday, surely sabdfl will decide to drop the Human icon set after he decides that probably all these artists who disagree with him are more knowledgeable on the subject than he is. But that's a different thing entirely and I hope we won't begin discussing it right now...
[08:02] <BHSPitLappy> so anyone here involved with sound
[08:02] <BHSPitLappy> or mostly the graphical side of things
[08:02] <troy_s> bhsppitlappy right now peter savage has been doing the sound work.
[08:02] <msikma> You know, I could probably make a new icon set but I'm not good at vector. I'd make a proof of concept, but it'd be in raster.
[08:02] <troy_s> i have been actively trying to cultivate the crew.
[08:02] <troy_s> msikma -- sketches are the best place to start
[08:02] <troy_s> because you can change them quickly as per sabdfl's direction
[08:03] <troy_s> but before we start sketching, we need a good design doc with a few singular samples
[08:03] <troy_s> so that the entire set echoes the content and thematic of the doc.
[08:03] <msikma> I wonder if sometimes people are reminding sabdfl that even though this is "his" distro, he surely isn't commissioning a bunch of people to make a distro the way he and only he likes it.
[08:03] <troy_s> bhspitlappy i believe the most recent attempts are at:
[08:03] <troy_s> http://progbox.co.uk/finals in the date folder
[08:03] <troy_s> BHSPitLappy
[08:04] <troy_s> contact frank -- he has taken over coordinating the sounds
[08:04] <BHSPitLappy> I recorded potential login/logout sounds a few minutes ago
[08:04] <BHSPitLappy> prototypes I guess
[08:04] <troy_s> msikma -- ultimately he is the client.
[08:04] <troy_s> i don't think it is about an ego trip, but rather he hasn't found the substance in the community to warrant trust yet.
[08:04] <BHSPitLappy> I'm not ready to publish them yet, I need to get permission from a friend first
[08:04] <troy_s> BHSPitLappy go have a peep at that link.
[08:05] <BHSPitLappy> troy_s, I've actually already heard the three there.
[08:05] <BHSPitLappy> the three FINAL ones. and I'm not a fan of any of them...
[08:05] <BHSPitLappy> :/
[08:05] <troy_s> BHSPitLappy inevitable.
[08:05] <BHSPitLappy> no offense if the makers are here
[08:05] <troy_s> BHSPitLappy those creative bits are always subjective.
[08:05] <BHSPitLappy> well, it shouldn't be too subjective what a login sound SHOULD accomplish
[08:06] <troy_s> i don't think anyone would take offense at folks who dislike something.  just simple aesthetics.
[08:06] <BHSPitLappy> it's not supposed to be a fanfare
[08:06] <BHSPitLappy> which is what those are
[08:06] <BHSPitLappy> I like the dapper sounds a lot
[08:06] <troy_s> what are you basing the 'should' on?
[08:06] <BHSPitLappy> reason
[08:06] <troy_s> because without some backup design references, you might be hard pressed to have anyone listen.
[08:06] <BHSPitLappy> obviously not completely
[08:07] <msikma> troy_s: ultimately, we are making a distro that is to become popular on the desktop market. Good design is terribly essential. Sabdfl is not a designer.
[08:07] <BHSPitLappy> who's sabdfl
[08:07] <troy_s> msikma -- if you get a proto up of the spotlight and seveas gets the usplash changes in
[08:07] <troy_s> msikma -- sabdfl though is the client.
[08:07] <msikma> Surely, he's the client we're working for, but I feel that perhaps it might not hurt to be a bit more bold someitmes.
[08:07] <troy_s> msikma -- it has been tried.  he wields the power and ultimately it is easier to get changes if you simply 'pull' certain directions rather than reinventing the wheel.
[08:08] <Seveas> "sabdfl is not a designer" is quite true
[08:08] <Seveas> he was responsible for the r-rated warty theme
[08:08] <troy_s> agree 100%, but that said
[08:08] <troy_s> we need to develop a proof that we can be programatic with the art development
[08:08] <troy_s> integrate well with the rest of the team
[08:08] <Seveas> indeed
[08:08] <troy_s> and produce stuff that simply 'works' with the existing set.
[08:08] <msikma> For now, yes.
[08:08] <troy_s> radical changes don't actually help, no matter how 'good' they are'
[08:09] <msikma> But I believe that the future holds us making art that disregards what is currently available and sets a new course. One that actually works.
[08:09] <troy_s> they actually detract from the overall consistency, which is at least as important as to how 'good' something is.
[08:09] <msikma> The current human GTK theme, for example, or the human icon set, they do not work, from my point of view.
[08:09] <troy_s> msikma -- absolutely -- but that i would hope is grounded in solid design theory
[08:09] <troy_s> meaning it is more likely he will listen if we provide a solid design doc
[08:09] <msikma> Hmmm
[08:09] <troy_s> with a solid grounding with _references_ to
[08:09] <troy_s> design books
[08:10] <troy_s> otherwise, it is nothing more than pure comment
[08:10] <troy_s> and _everyone_ has a comment.
[08:10] <troy_s> he needs to feel comfortable that the decisions are based on A) education, B) good solid design theory, C) work with his 'view' of what ubuntu stands for.
[08:10] <troy_s> and that will take a good bit of effort.
[08:10] <Seveas> troy_s, that's probab;y the most sensoble thing said about Ubuntu artwork ever
[08:10] <msikma> But one of Ubuntu's strengths is the fact that people who are more knowledgeable on something are listened to more than people who aren't. That way you can already filter out a lot of the noise.
[08:10] <troy_s> which is again why i encourage everyone to simply 'buy' into what we have
[08:11] <troy_s> msikma -- in fact, there is one person who is more listened to than others -- and we must respect the fact that while we may not agree with 100% of his decisions
[08:11] <troy_s> he is the SOLE reason that ubuntu is a real desktop threat at the moment.
[08:12] <troy_s> BHSPitLappy hang in there... hopefully the wiki can get you up to speed more easily than it was to get up to speed four months ago.
[08:12] <BHSPitLappy> does he actually call himself sabdfl?
[08:12] <troy_s> msikma, and never forget, who is 'more knowledgable' is, as einstein's general theory of relativity is concerned, is relative.
[08:12] <msikma> I still wonder, though. Take Jimmac's icon theme, Tango, for example. There is no doubt that he is well-educated, experienced and knowledgeable in the many different fields of graphic design. It could be argued that changing the set's colors to orange with Tangerine could be considered making the icons work with Ubuntu's philosophy. Yet, it was rejected for what I feel are very feeble and uneducated reasons.
[08:13] <troy_s> BHSPitLappy its an open source term.
[08:13] <BHSPitLappy> I know what it is
[08:13] <BHSPitLappy> but it says that it's his nick on freenode
[08:13] <BHSPitLappy> and if he refers to himself as that, then wow
[08:13] <troy_s> msikma -- while i respect jimmac immensley, what are his education credentials?
[08:13] <troy_s> outside of open source?
[08:13] <msikma> To be honest, I don't really care.
[08:13] <msikma> I don't see why we should.
[08:13] <troy_s> msikma -- that is nice, but when you are spending a good deal of money on something
[08:13] <troy_s> those credentials matter
[08:13] <troy_s> to accept the risk
[08:14] <msikma> Not really. Jimmac is so incredibly experienced and has done many jobs for large companies.
[08:14] <troy_s> J. Ives has a fine arts degree.
[08:14] <msikma> That strongly outweighs education.
[08:14] <troy_s> and dare i say, his stature is probably a byproduct of it.
[08:14] <msikma> It is my experience that it's a strong showreel of skills and experience that gets a designer a job as opposed to him having gone to a school.
[08:14] <troy_s> msikma -- its both.
[08:14] <msikma> But moreso the showreel.
[08:15] <troy_s> education shows dedication to the craft.
[08:15] <troy_s> it also provides one with a solid background in historical design decisions.
[08:15] <msikma> Einstein wasn't a good scholar, either.
[08:15] <troy_s> and art movements.
[08:15] <troy_s> exceptions are easily found... but look to the more commons...
[08:15] <msikma> I've seen interns do better stuff than hardened professionals.
[08:16] <troy_s> personally, when i am hiring someone, i look to BOTH
[08:16] <troy_s> it simply shows dedication
[08:17] <msikma> Anyway, the point is that Jimmac's icon set is a product of his gigantic amount of experience. Perhaps of his knowledge of design theory as well; regardless if he went to a good school or not. It was rejected.
[08:17] <msikma> This makes me very uncertain about any of my contributions.
[08:17] <troy_s> well... ultimately a project can't be for everyone.
[08:17] <troy_s> perhaps that is a question that one needs to ask themselves.
[08:17] <troy_s> you can't please everyone.
[08:17] <msikma> I would contribute more if it weren't for the fact my contributions could at any time be revoked for bad reasons.
[08:17] <msikma> This is not a pay job.
[08:17] <troy_s> bad or otherwise.
[08:18] <msikma> If my contributions are discarded for good reasons, then that's just tough luck. If it's rejected for a bad reason, it's a reason for me to leave and never come back.
[08:18] <troy_s> that is a personal question i suppose.
[08:18] <msikma> The reason why I'm contributing to this is because it would be beneficial to the world if Ubuntu became a popular desktop operating system.
[08:19] <troy_s> for me, good and bad are so relative i would rather discuss 'what is art' for the umpteenth thousandth time.
[08:19] <msikma> But that seems to not be sabdfl's agenda, if he is so concerned with taking decisions even if he is not knowledgeable on the subject.
[08:19] <troy_s> msikma -- perhaps -- and yet his decisions thus far have resulted in the most popular distribution that has managed to persuade sun, intel, and a few other significant vendors to be revealed.
[08:19] <troy_s> including dell.
[08:20] <troy_s> and a few others.
[08:20] <troy_s> so like it or not, there is something working within his vision.
[08:20] <msikma> Doesn't matter.
[08:20] <msikma> He's not a designer.
[08:20] <troy_s> well then i guess ultimately one mask ask who 'is'
[08:20] <troy_s> must ask.
[08:20] <troy_s> which is again tricky .
[08:21] <msikma> Someone who discards good art with the reason of "nah don't really like it" is not.
[08:21] <troy_s> msikma -- i feel your pain.
[08:21] <troy_s> i have had to argue with a client regarding composition for something, but alas, it is ultimately _their_ call.
[08:21] <troy_s> when i do my own projects, i get to put whatever twist i feel in.
[08:22] <troy_s> when i do theirs, the ones that pay me or offer me something else, i cleave to their work.
[08:22] <msikma> Anyway, I currently have better things to do than stifle discussions with vague points concerning the identity of the graphic designer. I hope you won't mind. I'll talk to you a bit later.
[08:22] <troy_s> certainly.
[08:22] <troy_s> be good msikma.
[08:22] <msikma> Also that was jokingly said, I like these discussions
[08:22] <msikma> (The comment about stifling discussions)
[08:23] <troy_s> ship me your design concepts for a new evolution too
[08:23] <troy_s> as i would like to get much input and see if i can phrase it in a way that sabdfl would find plausible.
[08:35] <BHSPitLappy> connection problems, msikma ?
[10:48] <BHSPitLappy> hey PingunZ
[10:49] <PingunZ> hey BHSPitLappy
[10:49] <PingunZ> I wast just going to sleep
[10:49] <PingunZ> so quick ;)
[10:49] <BHSPitLappy> heh.
[10:49] <BHSPitLappy> I recorded some sounds today
[10:49] <PingunZ> nice
[10:49] <PingunZ> quick quick, links :)
[10:50] <PingunZ> or mail, pingunz#gmail.com
[10:50] <PingunZ> I'll listen tomorrow
[10:50] <BHSPitLappy> can't yet
[10:50] <PingunZ> ' NIght all
[10:50] <BHSPitLappy> night


[00:29] <krytarik> Bashing-om: The two things I immediately notice, 1.) "Flavors advisories" → "Flavor advisories", and 2.) drop the 19.10 EOL notice manually off the security updates list as per usual.
[00:32] <Bashing-om> krytarik: ack - doing :D
[01:05] <guiverc> Bashing-om, FYI: two comments made on gdoc I think need fixing, I'd have preferred a "Support ended 17-July-2020" at end of 19.10 notices; but if dropping is our norm so be it, as readers had many prior warnings in just this issue about 19.10's EOL
[01:07] <guiverc> note: I gotta go outside & work in yard, getting darker so need to do some gardening etc before rain falls
[01:08] <Bashing-om> guiverc: looking and fixing :D Rain is a good thing !
[01:09] <guiverc> :) yeah it is, but it's better after I've finished outside chores  (I'm no farmer, not the same appreciation for it)
[01:10] <krytarik> ...Erm, I was specifically referring to the "security updates" section, where it lists the 19.10 EOL notice among what would usually just be package related notices..
[01:12] <krytarik> So I'm with guiverc there, either put the original line back in or make it even more obvious that support has just ended as suggested.
[01:17] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Was my intent to remove 19.10 in next week's issue - as 19.10 was still active diring the current week :(
[01:18] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Ouch ^ did not notice the EOL in the updates ! .. will do !
[01:21] <Bashing-om> krytarik: guiverc "Now End_Of_Life as of 17 July" for the updates section ?
[01:23] <krytarik> Well, I guess we could go with "End of Life as of 17 July 2020", yeah.  Or simply with what you had in there originally.
[01:23] <guiverc> originally I don't think it had a date (just July), so I'd suggest a date
[01:24] <Bashing-om> guiverc: We did make a date and I can do that - however the ups is my suggestion.
[01:25] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Was as "End of Life: July 17, 2020" .
[01:32] <krytarik> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue640?action=diff&rev2=6&rev1=5 - it wasn't, but yeah as it pertains a current event, an exact date is better.
[01:38] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Well ! Got me what happened as last week's issue surely had "End of Life: July 17, 2020". And is restored as "End of Life: July 17, 2020" presently.
[01:39] <Bashing-om> krytarik: Maybe I did not edit the wiki template to the above and plain ass forgot to edit the date in this week ?
[01:40] <krytarik> Yeah, that makes sense then.  And thanks!
[01:42] <Bashing-om> krytarik: And Thanks to you -= no one else catchs these oopps :D
[10:31] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Employee spotlight: Alice Cambridge, Inside Sales Representative @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/employee-spotlight-alice-cambridge-inside-sales-representative
[10:50] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: What can you do with MicroK8s? @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/what-can-you-do-with-microk8s
[12:16] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Behind the Circle: Hello world! @ https://www.behindthecircle.org/2020/07/20/hello-world/
[14:06] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: KaOS Linux 2020.07 Now Available for Download @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/kaos-linux-2020-07-now-available-for-download-530580.shtml (by Bogdan Popa)
[14:15] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Full Circle Magazine: Full Circle Weekly News #178 @ https://fullcirclemagazine.org/podcast/full-circle-weekly-news-178/
[17:55] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Softpedia:: A Closer Look at the Pinebook Pro $199 Linux Laptop @ https://news.softpedia.com/news/a-closer-look-at-the-pinebook-pro-199-linux-laptop-530584.shtml (by Bogdan Popa)
[18:15] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: Ubuntu Blog: Design and Web team summary – 20th July 2020 @ https://ubuntu.com//blog/design-and-web-team-summary-20th-july-2020
[19:25] <Bashing-om> UWN: No further edits known, pulling "WIP" - time to push 20:00 GMT.
[20:01] <Bashing-om> UWN: ubuntu-news@lists is away - doing the Forum post next :D
[20:06] <Bashing-om> UWN: Forum posting done - no issues seen :D - doing the re-directs.
[20:19] <Bashing-om> UWN: Re-directs done - pending is release to the Social Medias. :D
[22:36] <guiverc> Bashing-om, okay to publish on fridge?  UWN 640
[22:39] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Yup - no issues seen :D
[22:40] <guiverc> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2020/07/20/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-640/
[22:42] <Bashing-om> guiverc: Fridge: Looks good and spot check  checks good :D
[22:44] <guiverc> tweeted
[22:45] <Bashing-om> tweet noted :P
[22:47]  * guiverc gone for cup-of-tea; before I try & fight with fb
[22:48] <Bashing-om> Motivational fluid :P
[22:49] <guiverc> calming fluid
[22:53] <guiverc> fb done too
[22:54] <Bashing-om> guiverc: :D - wipe Gdoc now ?
[22:54] <guiverc> yep
[22:54] <Bashing-om> wipping
[23:05] <Bashing-om> UWN: We do issue 641 :D
[23:12] <Bashing-om> UWN: eoan removed from the WIKI template.
[23:15] -SwissBot:#ubuntu-news- ::Planet:: The Fridge: Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter Issue 640 @ http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2020/07/20/ubuntu-weekly-newsletter-issue-640/


[00:00] <maxb> It's an obscure and complex corner case that is handled perfectly adequately in the package name in ubuntu
[00:00] <mirak> maxb: it's just I don't think it's logical to have to change the source version, if the source just doesn't change
[00:01] <mirak> maxb: I am maybe a perfectionist but I just think there should be two layers of depency.
[00:01] <mirak> it's like dpkg does just half of the job
[00:02] <maxb> I remain unconvinced, sorry.
[00:06] <mirak> why gxine_0.5.903-4ubuntu1~ppa1~jaunty1 is below gxine_0.5.903-4ubuntu1 ? I did something wrong here
[00:06] <maxb> That's the special significance of ~
[00:07] <directhex> that's the purpose of ~
[00:07] <directhex> ~ is a generic "less than" marker
[00:07] <directhex> 1.0~1~1 < 1.0~1 < 1.0
[00:08] <mirak> ok
[00:08] <directhex> + is the reverse
[00:10] <mirak> but why xine-ui_0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu2~ppa1~jaunty1 upgraded over xine-ui_0.99.5+cvs20070914-2.1~lenny2ubuntu2 ?
[00:10] <mirak> maxb: my bad
[00:10] <mirak> I forgot the number mistake
[00:11] <ajmitch> those version numbers hurt my eyes
[00:12] <directhex> ajmitch, agreed. "cvs"? :o
[00:13] <jtechidna> a backport of a ppa version of an ubuntu version of a backport from lenny? lulz
[00:13] <directhex> actually, it's impressive. a jaunty build of a ppa build of an ubuntu build of a lenny backport of a NMU of a CVS snapshot
[00:13] <maxb> "cvs from a year and a half ago" :O
[00:13] <directhex> with whipped cream and a cherry on top
[00:14] <directhex> JontheEchidna, don't miss the NMU, that's added lulziness
[00:14] <ajmitch> directhex: it's missing an x.y.xisreallya.b.c
[00:14] <JontheEchidna> hehe
[00:14] <directhex> ajmitch, don't make me wave the behemoth at you
[00:15] <directhex> <IP_ADDRESS>+<IP_ADDRESS>5ubuntu1~hardy1+really<IP_ADDRESS>ubuntu2
[00:15] <ajmitch> where's the epoch?!
[00:16] <directhex> 3:3.3.8really3.3.7-0ubuntu11.1
[00:16] <directhex> ajmitch, howzat?
[00:17] <ajmitch> starting to get there
[02:28] <ScottK> ajmitch: We really don't want to do an epoch if Debian doesn't.
[02:29] <ScottK> I'm pretty sure I recognize directhex's example as my work.
[02:32] <ajmitch> ScottK: I know, we were joking
[02:32] <ScottK> OK.
[02:58] <qiyong> should I create pv on a whole disk device or on a  partiton ?
[03:30] <bucket529> Question: The mail-notification package in Debian has SSL disabled ( http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=286672 ) due to a Debian Legal opinion on OpenSSL. The developer disagreed, claiming that the package has no such code in it, but disabled SSL anyway to get accepted by Debian. Is it worthwhile to file a needs-packaging bug in Ubuntu to get an SSL-enabled version into the repos? Or is there a better wa
[03:31] <ScottK> bucket529: Without looking, I'd say that there is no difference between our policy on such things and Debian's.
[03:33] <bucket529> ScottK: Sensible. The developer (not me) claims the refusal to accept an SSL-enabled version was an error on Debain's part. Whether it is or not (I'm not a lawyer), who would make that call in Ubuntu?
[03:33] <ScottK> bucket529: Now I've read the bug.  If it links against openssl and is GPL, but doesn't have an openssl exception, it's not distributable.
[03:33] <ScottK> We have the same policy as Debian on this.
[03:34] <bucket529> ScottK: So the key is 'links against', not 'includes code' ?
[03:34] <ScottK> In Ubuntu it would be decided by an archive administrator (like ftp-master in Debian).
[03:34] <ScottK> Yes.
[03:34] <ScottK> Upstream's statement that it includes no code from openssl is not the real issue.
[03:35] <bucket529> ScottK: Thanks for the clarification.
[03:36] <ScottK> There is some discussion about if openssl qualifies as a system library with a standard interface, but generally in Debian/Ubuntu that's not accepted.
[03:37] <bucket529> ScottK: Ah.
[03:39] <lifeless> bucket529: gnutls
[03:40] <VK7HSE> I've had a go at merging  libhtml-parser-perl it's uploaded to me PPA on LP https://edge.launchpad.net/~vk7hse/+archive/ppa is there a mentor free to have a look and advise me of any mistakes?
[03:41] <ScottK> lifeless: That's mentioned in the Debian bug as an option, but some porting is required.
[03:45] <bucket529> lifeless: Upstream will do what upstream will do. My advice to the fellow who asked me will be: 'Nudge upstream to seek the exception'.
[03:46] <lifeless> bucket529: indeed.
[03:48] <calc> you can only ad a openssl exception if everyone that wrote code for it agrees and it doesn't link to anything gpl either
[03:49] <calc> s/ad/add
[03:50] <bucket529> calc: Thanks.
[04:12] <ajmitch> oh goody, a new tool for me to package up for karmic
[04:12]  * ajmitch looks for an ITP bug
[04:15] <pangloss> so question that I am sure has been answered before: if I am packaging something that requires some libraries, and I am nearly positive that those libraries will never be used by any other application, should I just package the application witht he libraries integrated, or should I packaged the libraries individually and then add them as depends in the application?
[04:19] <ScottK> pangloss: Individually.  It's actually probably easier and it's better in the long run in case you're wrong.
[04:20] <pangloss> ScottK, Thanks
[04:50] <hansfbaier> I am the developer of libprolooks and jackpanel, I packaged them (as native packages), built them in my ppa for karmic and uploaded them to revu.
[04:53] <hansfbaier> Should I get a response after subscribing ubuntu-universe-sponsors to the bug?
[04:56] <ScottK> Yes, although native packages probably aren't right.
[05:43] <hansfbaier> ScottK: Since I am the developer of the software, should I then keep the debianization in a separate git repo?
[05:44] <ScottK> hansfbaier: yes.
[05:44] <ScottK> You don't want to have to make a new release everytime you change the packaging.
[05:44] <ScottK> That or just exclude it when you roll your upstream tarball.
[05:46] <hansfbaier> ScottK: I include it in my upstream tarball
[05:46] <ScottK> Right, that's what makes it a native package.
[05:46] <ScottK> Don't do that.
[05:47] <ScottK> It will make your life easier in the long run (I package stuff I'm upstream for and this is what I've found)
[05:47] <persia> hansfbaier, A couple examples where it is easier:
[05:47] <hansfbaier> ScottK: So since I use git, probably git-buildpackage would be best, wouldn't it.
[05:47] <persia> 1) the case where there is some silly transition in a distro that doesn't affect the code
[05:47]  * ScottK and git aren't on good terms.
[05:47] <persia> 2) the case where a distro is under some freeze, and one wants to backport a patch
[05:48] <hansfbaier> ScottK: What do you use, then?
[05:48] <ScottK> hansfbaier: mostly svn.
[05:48] <hansfbaier> ScottK: Where should the repo be located, is there any preference?
[05:49] <ScottK> I'm also very good with diff and patch.
[05:49] <ScottK> I'm old and probably have a workflow that isn't at all typical.
[05:49] <ScottK> But that doesn't change the basic principle.
[05:49] <hansfbaier> ScottK: The packaging repo, that is.
[05:49] <ScottK> It's really up to you.
[05:49] <hansfbaier> ScottK: Ah thanks.
[05:50] <ScottK> In my svn layout I have it exactly where it unpacks to.  I just exclude it when I roll the tarball.
[05:51] <hansfbaier> ScottK: So in your svn you have the debian/ dir, but you exclude it in the upstream tarball?
[05:51] <ScottK> yes.
[05:52] <ScottK> Then I let the packaging continue to evolve in trunk even though I include a snapshot of the packaging in the tag.
[05:52] <hansfbaier> ScottK: What are native packages for, exacly, something that is innate to the distro?
[05:52] <ScottK> Yes, exactly.
[05:52] <hansfbaier> s/exacly/exactly/
[05:52] <hansfbaier> ScottK: I see.
[05:52] <ScottK> Some people do use them as you were considering, but it's really suboptimal.
[05:53] <hansfbaier> ScottK: I have 4 branches in my repo, one for karmic, one for hardy, one for jaunty and one master
[05:53] <hansfbaier> ScottK: Which differ in packaging
[05:53] <ScottK> Is the upstream source the same for all of them?
[05:54] <hansfbaier> ScottK: Not really, since karmic needs some workarounds for the bugs in Vala 0.7.2
[05:54] <ScottK> You can still manage that and not have a native package.
[05:54] <hansfbaier> ScottK: And hardy comes with vala 0.5.7 and needs some backporting therefore.
[05:55] <hansfbaier> ScottK: That is where git-buildpackage would come in.
[05:55] <ScottK> I know in pkg-clamav on alioth (Debian) they have upstream clamav and packaging all in the same git repo.
[05:55] <ScottK> Probably.
[05:55] <hansfbaier> ScottK: generating debian-diffs, right?
[05:55] <hansfbaier> ScottK: So I probably have to read more on git-buildpackage.
[05:56] <ScottK> Since they are uploading directly and not looking for sponsorship they are interested in tools to produce a package ready for upload.
[05:56] <ScottK> However, once you have that, a debdiff is trivial to get to.
[05:58] <hansfbaier> ScottK: Thank you very much for the feedback.
[05:59] <ScottK> hansfbaier: You're welcome.
[05:59] <hansfbaier> persia: Thanks too.
[06:15] <hyperair> is anyone free to review remuco-server? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/remuco-server
[07:41] <kklimonda> any motu around to sponsor bug 368855?
[07:52] <dholbach> good morning
[07:53] <nixternal> good morning
[07:53] <dholbach> hiya nixternal
[07:54] <nixternal> howdy
[08:03] <kklimonda> btw, to fix 368855 in KK new version of cherrypy3 has to be packaged (be either us or debian maintainer - For now I've reported bug on debian bts about it). Should I link to debian bug in this report or create a new one?
[08:07] <geser> link the Debian bug to the existing bug in LP
[08:15] <didrocks> good morning
[08:21] <Toadstool> good morning
[08:25] <bizkut> morning
[08:56] <evanrmurphy> good morning/night
[09:00] <toabctl> hi all. i build a new package with cdbs and created some patches with cdbs-edit-patch. when i want to build the package with debuild -S, i got: Patch debian/patches/osmap_path.patch is not applied. Why?
[09:12] <runasand> toabctl: maybe you have to apply the patch first?
[09:14] <toabctl> runasand, and how to do that? i thought, debuild will do it for me...
[09:17] <runasand> that is a good question ;p
[09:18] <runasand> toabctl: have you read what the cdbs-doc says about patching? using dpatch etc
[09:19] <toabctl> runasand, thanks. i'll read the docs.
[09:19] <runasand> it says something about an include-line you should add to debian/rules
[09:19] <runasand> at least.. :)
[09:27] <maxb> toabctl: You are including simple-patchsys.mk, yes?
[09:27] <toabctl> maxb, ye
[09:27] <toabctl> yes
[09:27] <maxb> hmm
[09:27] <maxb> Personally I find the simple-patchsys too simple, so I can't really help much more than that
[09:28] <dholbach> toabctl: is that a warning or an error?
[09:28] <dholbach> to me it sounds like simple-patchsys just lets you know that the patch is not applied
[09:28] <toabctl> dholbach, yes, i think so
[09:39] <toabctl> dholbach, here is my build-process. is it fine now? http://paste.ubuntu.com/171376/
[09:41] <runasand> did you figure it out, toabctl?
[09:41] <LucidFox> maxb> What's wrong with simple-patchsys?
[09:41] <LucidFox> That you have to name patches in order?
[09:42] <maxb> Well mainly that it's bound to cdbs, to be honest :-)
[09:42] <toabctl> runasand, i think, it was only a message that the patch was not applied. it wasn't an error
[09:42] <LucidFox> ah
[09:43] <LucidFox> I use CDBS for simple common scenarios and dh 7 when I need more fine-grained control
[09:43] <LucidFox> mostly
[09:44] <maxb> !
[09:44] <maxb> simple, and CDBS, are not two concepts that I would use together :-)
[09:44] <runasand> toabctl: ah :)
[09:44] <LucidFox> Heh.
[09:45] <LucidFox> Well, it allows ffor very short debian/rules files
[09:45] <toabctl> maxb, im new to debian packages and cdbs and simple patch system are great for me..
[09:46] <toabctl> maxb, i don't know much about makefiles and all that stuff. so cdbs is good to start.
[09:46] <dholbach> toabctl: yep, looks good to me! :)
[09:47] <toabctl> dholbach, and what to do now?
[09:47] <toabctl> can i test the buildprocess with pbuilder?
[09:48] <dholbach> toabctl: yep
[09:48] <dholbach> toabctl: or with simply running   debuild
[09:49] <maxb> I think the real problem with cdbs is that it's too easy to write a package that you don't really understand
[09:49] <LucidFox> Is there a way to automatically install build-dependencies for a given source package or unpacked package directory?
[09:49] <LucidFox> maxb> Same with dh 7
[09:50] <maxb> Indeed, I favour traditional dh
[09:50] <LucidFox> although at least it doesn't hide away build steps... hmm
[09:50] <dholbach> LucidFox: sudo apt-get build-dep <bla>  for a package in the archive or   /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends   in the source tree
[09:50] <dholbach> sudo /usr/lib/...
[09:50] <directhex> ooh, running pbuilder-satisfydepends
[09:50] <directhex> clever!
[09:50] <LucidFox> Is pbuilder-satisfydepends used on a .dsc?
[09:50] <dholbach> LucidFox: no, just in the source tree should be fine
[09:51] <LucidFox> And won't it leave pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy installed?
[09:51] <dholbach> /usr/lib/pbuilder/pbuilder-satisfydepends-gdebi then :)
[09:51] <dholbach> should be faster too
[09:52] <LucidFox> pbuilder's dependency resolution used to be really slow before they swithed to the pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy system
[09:57] <LucidFox> There's IRC for emacs? O_O
[09:58] <directhex> LucidFox, i'm waiting for emacs to get a decent text editor
[09:58] <LucidFox> Old joke :p
[09:58] <directhex> LucidFox, the old ones are the best
[09:58] <LucidFox> ^_^
[09:58]  * LucidFox switches back to Eclipse
[09:58] <directhex> LucidFox, and since i can't use duke nukem forever jokes anymore...
[09:59] <LucidFox> You mean Duke Nukem Dead Forever?
[09:59] <directhex> whatever happened to eclipse packaging effort? what i saw made it sound like a new tarball is the coming of the apocalypse
[09:59] <LucidFox> directhex> There was a preliminary 3.4 package in December 2008, last I know
[10:00] <maxb> I've heard that the Eclipse build system is the stuff of nightmares
[10:00] <LucidFox> The Eclipse plugin system is a mess.
[10:00] <LucidFox> I updated my home installation recently and broke SVN support.
[10:01] <maxb> I "packaged" Eclipse for my company's desktops (just repackaging the binaries) - worked great in 3.3 - since they introduced the supposedly "better" p2 stuff in 3.4, it's become hellaciously fragile
[10:02] <LucidFox> p2?
[10:02] <maxb> That piece of evil regression-laden mess that replaced the Update Manager
[10:02] <LucidFox> Oh.
[10:02] <LucidFox> Yes LS
[10:02] <LucidFox> * :S
[10:03] <LucidFox> and DEPENDENCY HELL
[10:03] <LucidFox> in all caps
[10:05] <LucidFox> although I only use Eclipse when I actually need a full-featured IDE.
[10:05] <LucidFox> I tried using it for packaging, but I found out that what I really used was just a text editor with a directory tree view, so I switched to gedit
[10:06] <maxb> It's totally only worth it for the code assist, refactoring, etc.
[10:06]  * LucidFox nods
[10:06] <LucidFox> yes, I can't imagine writing Java without it
[10:07] <maxb> silly overly verbose language :-)
[10:07] <LucidFox> I like it.
[10:08] <maxb> Oh, I use it a lot too, and its.... ok
[10:08] <LucidFox> I'm actually thinking of rewriting my website in Java from PHP
[10:08] <maxb> I often want to beat Sun around the head with a cluestick though
[10:09] <LucidFox> What for?
[10:09] <maxb> Little stupidities like: there's no way to do mkdir, and find out why it fails, if it fails
[10:10] <LucidFox> oh
[10:10] <maxb> And, the subprocess invocation API explicitly warns you that if you don't simultaneously read both stdout and stderr of a child, buffering issues may cause you to deadlock... but there's NO WAY TO DO SO
[10:10] <maxb> (short of spawning an extra thread)
[10:11] <maxb> Oh, and the fact that it's practically impossible to write a Java application which doesn't require a shell/perl/python script to start it up
[10:11] <maxb> These are not huge impenetrable stumbling blocks. They are just hideous warts
[10:18] <directhex> LucidFox, i did the reverse - my website used to be hand-rolled JSP, which i had to port to PHP when my webhost went to hell and nobody would host JSP on the cheap
[10:19] <LucidFox> Ewwww, JSP
[10:19] <directhex> maxb, doesn't java have a binfmt wrapper?
[10:19] <directhex> LucidFox, i can easily say something more "ewww" than JSP. watch this:
[10:20] <directhex> i could write some ASP.NET in Java, using IKVM! genius!
[10:20]  * LucidFox is intent to write all her new Java web applications in Wicket
[10:21] <directhex> i tell a lie, i still fail to grasp the central asp.net paradigms
[10:22] <maxb> Wicket is indeed rather lovely
[10:22] <directhex> perhaps packaging something would help. i wonder if i could find a dfsg-free wiki or blog to package
[10:25] <LucidFox> directhex> Depends on the version of ASP.NET. I vaguely remember ASP.NET 1.0, but knowing Microsoft, everything has probably changed a bazillion times already.
[10:26] <directhex> LucidFox, well, i did ASP in you yoof, but ASP and ASP.NET only share a name, nothing else
[10:26] <LucidFox> YES
[10:26] <LucidFox> Just like ADO and ADO.NET
[10:27] <quadrispro-acer1> mok0: hi! are you around?
[10:27] <mok0> aye
[10:27] <quadrispro-acer1> bug #193393
[10:27] <quadrispro-acer1> i uploaded the package to REVU
[10:28] <mok0> quadrispro-acer1: ah, a revu request... :-)
[10:28] <quadrispro-acer1> yeah
[10:28] <mok0> quadrispro-acer1: I will take a look at it later
[10:29] <quadrispro-acer1> ;) ok tr
[10:29] <quadrispro-acer1> * thx
[10:30] <LucidFox> I thought packages from debian-multimedia.org could be uploaded directly to NEW?
[10:31] <AnAnt> Hello, can someone review sabily-keyring: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=sabily-keyring
[10:32] <quadrispro-acer1> LucidFox: I think its's not "legal", because debian-multimedia isn't debian, so we need to review them before uploading
[10:32] <directhex> LucidFox, i think it's all about branding - i.e. "you liked foo, try foo.net" rather than "you liked foo, try bar"
[10:33] <quadrispro-acer1> however, the policy for this kind of pkgs isn't really clear
[10:33]  * quadrispro-acer1 going away for a few of minutes
[10:34] <quadrispro-acer1> directhex: sorry for the late: congrats! and welcome aboard :)
[10:35] <directhex> quadrispro-acer1, thanks
[10:37] <LucidFox> quadrispro-acer1> Well, I believe jdong uploaded mpeg4ip straight to NEW, and so did I with kplayer, and I got sync requests from DMO acked and approved in the past
[10:38] <LucidFox> for new packages, that is
[10:39] <LucidFox> directhex> yes, that's bsically it
[10:45] <james_w> well, I'd at least advise you to review the licenses and debian/copyright
[10:48] <LucidFox> That goes without saying, james_w :)
[10:48] <james_w> well, judging by some of the things that end up in NEW, I'm not so sure :-)
[10:49] <LucidFox> ^_^
[10:52] <joaopinto> hi
[11:11] <Toadstool> hmm, the new REVU workflow proposal looks really promising to me, I really like it
[11:11] <hyperair> hmm? workflow proposal?
[11:11] <hyperair> got a link?
[11:11]  * Toadstool high fives whoever worked on this
[11:11] <Toadstool> hyperair: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVUWorkflowProposal
[11:12] <runasand> Toadstool: I agree, it looks nice :)
[11:15] <Toadstool> speaking of reviewing, it's been so long since I didn't do any... I feel rusty :)
[11:15] <runasand> I would if I could :]
[11:39] <Toadstool> oh right... I can't advocate packages, nevermind
[13:17] <savvas> if the packaging is changed from debian native to normal, it should be shown correctly in revu, right?
[13:18] <jmehdi> needs review: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?package=webstrict (I'm ready to do any change quickly as this package is here from more than a year!)
[13:20] <aboudreault> Hi, I am wondering if there is someone who is very familiar with packaging and launchpad, and who can speak French. There is a few that I'd like to understand, but i have some problems to explain everything in English.
[13:21] <runasand> jmehdi: have you fixed the copyright-issues and stuff? and what about the warning/notice that's shown on revu?
[13:28] <loic-m_> aboudreault: fire ahead ;)
[13:31] <loic-m_> jmehdi: since you're one of the two people that wrote webstrict, can't you assign a copyright for each source file? It would really help
[13:35] <jmehdi> loic-m_: I've added a copyright at the beginning of the java files, should I add something else?
[13:35] <loic-m_> jmehdi: only thing I see is that you're saying "please refer to the copyright file". It's not the same
[13:36] <cjwatson> nothing in Ubuntu policy requires a copyright notice in every source file
[13:36] <jmehdi> loic-m_: I did the same thing as the gnome-do team did
[13:36] <loic-m_> jmehdi: ok
[13:36] <cjwatson> there's no reason for that to cause a rejection at the revu stage
[13:36] <cjwatson> some *upstream* organisations require this, e.g. GNU, but it would be crazy for Ubuntu to do so
[13:37] <loic-m_> cjwatson: isn't it a pain later when there's other contributors and you can't track who touched what because of some laziness at the beginning?
[13:37] <cjwatson> from our point of view, if the licensing is clear from the object as a whole distributed by upstream (i.e. the tarball) then that's all we need
[13:37] <cjwatson> loic-m_: that's not Ubuntu's problem
[13:37] <cjwatson> loic-m_: all we need is clear and consistent licensing
[13:38] <loic-m_> cjwatson: it is when the original uploader moves away and someone has to update the package
[13:38] <dlynch> Is the terminator application an excellent example from which to copy the handling of i18n tasks in python? I'm the upstream author of a desktop python application who is very new to i18n, and I'm trying to find excellent examples of organizing and packaging the po files and any other house keeping tasks
[13:38] <cjwatson> loic-m_: what does that have to do with copyright status?
[13:38] <cjwatson> loic-m_: you do not need this information as a packager
[13:38] <loic-m_> cjwatson: spending 10+ more hours tracking a svn because else you can't also maintain it in Debian it a pain
[13:38] <cjwatson> loic-m_: what does that have to do with copyright status?
[13:39] <loic-m_> cjwatson: I've seen packages rejected from DD because the copyright in the source files is severely outdated (missing names)
[13:40] <cjwatson> loic-m_: there has been some confusion about this from some newbie Debian ftpmasters, but I believe it's been resolved on debian-policy
[13:40] <loic-m_> cjwatson: and people in Debian dropping their ITP because upstream didn't want to correct it
[13:40] <cjwatson> loic-m_: as a Debian developer, you need to reproduce copyright notices from upstream
[13:40] <cjwatson> loic-m_: you don't need to do better than upstream
[13:41] <cjwatson> loic-m_: *shrug* those people are wrong and should have been persistent
[13:41] <loic-m_> cjwatson: I'll need to read debian-policy again ;)
[13:41] <cjwatson> see e.g. http://lists.debian.org/debian-policy/2009/03/msg00270.html
[13:41] <cjwatson> "We do not require people to wade through $VCS commit logs or mailinglist
[13:41] <cjwatson> threads to find out who wrote each single line of code."
[13:41] <captivus> Good morning
[13:42] <directhex> just through all the source files, when AUTHORS is out of date
[13:43] <ScottK> directhex: All you need to go through the source files for is difference licenses.
[13:43] <LucidFox> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-6had <-- What the heck?
[13:43] <cjwatson> directhex: and even then it's a matter of debate; what one Debian ftpmaster rejects on is not the same as Debian policy
[13:43] <LucidFox> it seems Launchpad teams are becoming weirder with each day
[13:44] <_Andrew> How do I get a list of packages that depend upon a selected package?
[13:44] <runasand> LucidFox: uuuuhm :p
[13:44] <loic-m_> cjwatson: thanks for the link to the discussion
[13:44] <_Andrew> I want to test my built package and make sure everything works with what's in ubuntu
[13:45] <cjwatson> LucidFox: seems to me that Joey Hess might be justifiably annoyed about that
[13:45] <cjwatson> I'm not aware that anyone from Ubuntu helped him to write dh7 at all
[13:46] <cjwatson> _Andrew: the dctrl-tools package has useful search tools
[13:46] <_Andrew> thanks
[13:46] <runasand> http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/3616/ubuntu.jpg -- ^_^
[13:49] <Hobbsee> runasand: haha.  wave the magic wand
[13:49] <runasand> Hobbsee: yeah ;p
[13:49] <_Andrew> The package "funguloids" says it depends upon "ogre-plugins-cgprogrammanager" however there is no such package?
[13:49] <LucidFox> O_O
[13:49] <Hobbsee> runasand: "IT support.  have you tried turning it off and back on again?"
[13:50] <runasand> Hobbsee: \o/
[13:50] <runasand> Hobbsee: the it crowd rocks :)
[13:50] <Hobbsee> :)
[13:50] <Hobbsee> indeed!
[13:50] <directhex> Hobbsee, i had to do that to a car once.
[13:50] <directhex> Hobbsee, i had to reboot the engine to make the stereo stop sounding like a bad Am radio
[13:50] <Hobbsee> hah.  nice!
[13:51] <directhex> Hobbsee, not really :|
[13:51] <directhex> no wonder GM are in the toilet
[13:52]  * kmdm sighs and notes he still has 0118 999 881<PHONE_NUMBER> committed to memory, tune et al. :)
[13:53] <ScottK> _Andrew: There is such a package, it's just never built, IIRC.
[13:53]  * runasand wonders what "et al" means
[13:53] <loic-m_> Is it still required that changelog for a new package only contain one entry?
[13:53] <kmdm> runasand: probably nothing, but I sometimes use it as "and all" ;)
[13:53] <runasand> loic-m_: think so
[13:53] <runasand> kmdm: ah :)
[13:53] <ScottK> _Andrew: IIRC as it stands it's impossible to get it to build on our buildds.  It only works in Debian because they allow binary uploads.
[13:54] <directhex> tsk. unbuildable packages
[13:54] <_Andrew> I think the bug I filed (284750) changes that
[13:55] <ScottK> It's non-free/multiverse anyway
[13:55] <directhex> tsk. non-free
[13:56] <ScottK> _Andrew: Yes.  That would do it.
[14:02] <jmehdi> loic-m_: do you see any other problems with my webstrict package?
[14:11] <loic-m_> jmehdi: your changelog should only had one entry AFAIK
[14:12] <ScottK> popey: Cheers for advertising a new service without spamming my inbox.  When I read, "It's now moved into an invite-only beta phase" I thought for a moment it was going to be an ubuntuone parody.
[14:13] <loic-m_> jmehdi: keep the top entry (1.4...), just copy/paste in it the entries from 1.3... (unless you droped the patches)
[14:14] <jmehdi> loic-m_: should I keep the version? (1.4-0ubuntu2)
[14:14] <jmehdi> loic-m_: to upload again on revu should I put 1.4-0ubuntu3?
[14:14] <popey> :) ScottK
[14:18] <loic-m_> jmehdi: no, keep everything at 0ubuntu1 since only the upload to Ubuntu repositories (= not REVU uploads) counts in Ubuntu
[14:18] <jmehdi> loic-m_: ok, that's what I thought
[14:18] <loic-m_>  jmehdi: (that's different than on Debian)
[14:19] <loic-m_>  jmehdi: I didn't have the time to really check, but you seem to have addressed all of persia's concerns
[14:19] <jmehdi> loic-m_: ok, is it correct: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/171631/
[14:20] <loic-m_>  jmehdi: you should put the fact you addressed all his concerns in a comment (wheter you detail that or not) to encourage reviewers to check your package
[14:20] <jmehdi> loic-m_: ok, and how is made the final approval?
[14:21] <loic-m_> jmehdi: looks ok to me
[14:21] <loic-m_> jmehdi: you need to convince two MOTU to review and advocate your package
[14:22] <jmehdi> loic-m_: ok
[14:22] <loic-m_> jmehdi: another thing that can help (but isn't required) is uploading you package to a PPA (if you have one) to show that it builds ok (and people can try it too)
[14:23] <jmehdi> it's already on my PPA (but not this last version) ; where should I put the PPA url? in a comment on REVU ?
[14:23] <loic-m_> jmehdi: it just depends if people are busy or not at a certain time. I'd suggest hanging around on REVU days (Fridays) since people set time aside for reviewing
[14:24] <loic-m_> jmehdi: yes, in a comment it's good
[14:24] <jmehdi> loic-m_: ok
[14:24] <loic-m_> jmehdi: changelog un-necessary > unnecessary
[14:25] <jmehdi> loic-m_: ok ;)
[14:26] <bddebian> Heya gang
[14:26] <freeflying> bddebian: hi
[14:26] <bddebian> Hi freeflying
[14:28] <cpscotti> dae gabo!
[14:28] <GaboB> e aii scotinho!!!
[14:28] <GaboB> vamo fludááááá
[14:28] <jmehdi> loic-m_: I try to upload my package on revu again but it tells me "Already uploaded to revu on revu.ubuntuwire.com" "Doing nothing for webstrict_1.4-0ubuntu1_source.changes"
[14:29] <jmehdi> loic-m_: (that's why I increased the version number last time)
[14:31] <cjwatson> runasand: it's short for "et alii", Latin for "and others"
[14:31] <runasand> cjwatson: ah, thanks! :)
[14:32] <loic-m_> jmehdi: you need to force the upload : dput -f ......
[14:33] <jmehdi> loic-m_: so simple ;)
[14:34] <loic-m_>  jmehdi: for PPA it's different AFAIK,  it won't work and you'll just have to bump the changelog, f.e. add ~ppa1 (-0ubuntu1~ppa1), debuild again and upload
[14:37] <Elbrus> runasand: et al usually meant "and others" (from Latin) ... [14:53] * runasand wonders what "et al" means
[14:38]  * Elbrus seems to be late by mere minutes ;)
[14:39] <artfwo> Hello! I have fixed an archive rejection for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/scantailor - would anyone like to review/readvocate? Thanks!
[15:42] <ni|> hello, i've built a working deb file
[15:42] <ni|> and everything appears great on jaunty
[15:42] <ni|> i'm concerned however about it being backwards compatible
[15:43] <ni|> i want to make one deb for the 8.04 up to 9.04 -- is this impossible?  Do i need to run the debuild -b -us -uc on all the version i want to support and provide debs for each version :/
[15:44] <azeem> ni|: launchpad PPAs do that for you I think; at least you can upload source for every version you want to support and get it built there
[15:45] <ni|> azeem: this is a binary that the company i'm working with requested -- its not source sadly
[15:45] <directhex> ni|, a package in a PPA does not "cascade", i.e. a version uploaded to hardy is not written to the jaunty Packages.gz file
[15:46] <ni|> directhex: interesting
[15:46] <azeem> ni|: why do you need to support 8.10?
[15:46] <directhex> ni|, generally speaking, a package is compatible between releases as long as its dependencies are well written and still true
[15:46] <ni|> i mean i only have 3 really
[15:46] <ni|> unfortunatley one of them is qt4
[15:46] <ni|> and qt3 is all that is present in 8.04
[15:46] <directhex> then you have a problem, don't you
[15:46] <ni|> yes i do
[15:47] <ni|> directhex: but i suppose i could do some finagling
[15:47] <directhex> qt 4.4.0 is in hardy-backports
[15:47] <ni|> directhex: you suspect that the important line is the depends line in control
[15:47] <directhex> so you could simply insist that people have backports enabled
[15:47] <ni|> directhex: yes, thats what I was thinking
[15:47] <ni|> this was a painless experience :P
[15:47] <ni|> thanks a lot
[15:48] <directhex> oh, and always make sure you compile your app on the oldest os you plan on supporting, as compatibility rarely goes both ways
[15:50] <ScottK> There is Qt4 in Hardy.
[15:53] <directhex> -backports
[15:53] <directhex> oh, wait
[15:53] <directhex> i'm misreading p.u.c
[15:53] <ScottK> I mean in the release pocket.
[15:53] <directhex> hardy has 4.3.4
[15:53] <ScottK> Even Dapper has some version of Qt4.
[15:54] <directhex> i think the ABI question holds even truer then - make sure you build against the "right" version of Qt4
[15:54] <directhex> assuming some degree of ABi backward-compatibility
[16:06] <imbrandon> assume , hrm , lets break this word down ... ass-u-me .... ass ( out of ) u ( and ) me
[16:07] <imbrandon> lol
[16:51] <savvas> ScottK: it looks like boost1.38 needs similar patches as the ones in boost1.37 to enable python2.6
[16:51] <ScottK> savvas: I'd expect so.
[16:52]  * ScottK hasn't looked
[16:53] <savvas> there is a related bug at debian, but it's marked as wishlist: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=523901
[16:54] <aboudreault> what could be the reason of this message: dpkg-genchanges: warning: ignoring -sd option for native Debian package
[16:55] <savvas> aboudreault: does the source come with a debian/ folder?
[16:55] <savvas> I mean the source from where you downloaded it
[16:56] <aboudreault> no. i took the debian folder in a svn repository, and copied it my original source
[16:57] <savvas> hmm
[16:57] <savvas> ok in debian you have orig.tar.gz which should be the original source as .tar.gz without debian folder
[16:58] <aboudreault> Hmm... maybe because my original source is .tar.bz2 and not .tar.gz ?
[17:00] <savvas> aboudreault: can you execute this and paste it in a paste.ubuntu.com: ls -l
[17:00] <savvas> while in the directory I mean :)
[17:00] <savvas> I need to see the folder/file names
[17:02] <aboudreault> k
[17:03] <aboudreault> in fact... geos-3.1.0 is my directory, and i have geos-3.1.0.orig.tar.bz2 at the same level
[17:04] <savvas> ah ok
[17:04] <aboudreault> (i tried to use a .tar.gz..... same thing)
[17:04] <savvas> bunzip2 geos-3.1.0.orig.tar.bz2
[17:04] <savvas> gzip -9 geos-3.1.0.orig.tar
[17:04] <savvas> mv geos-3.1.0.orig.tar.gz geos_3.1.0.orig.tar.gz
[17:05] <aboudreault> haa... the "-"
[17:07] <savvas> yes, orig.tar.gz needs an "_" between the package name and the version :)
[17:07] <savvas> the rest need "-"
[17:07] <aboudreault> i forgot that. thanks a lot
[17:07] <savvas> np
[17:07] <aboudreault> is there an easy way to delete the "extra" source upload on launchpad ? :P
[17:08] <savvas> you mean upload the same version number again? no, I don't think they allowed that
[17:08] <savvas> just make ~ppa1 to ~ppa2 :)
[17:09] <aboudreault> that will remove the extra .orig.tar.gz ?
[17:10] <aboudreault> i've uploaded the file 3 times. hardy,intrepid, jaunty. didn't notice that it uploaded the full source 3 times.
[17:11] <aboudreault> anyway, that only ~15mb :P
[17:11] <savvas> I don't know about that, ask in #launchpad :)
[17:12] <aboudreault> ok ^^
[17:12] <aboudreault> what is the tool to compare 2 ubuntu version?
[17:13] <aboudreault> dpkg.. kk.
[17:14] <savvas> yep, dpkg --compare-version :)
[17:19] <ScottK> savvas: Python 2.6 stuff is just wishlist in Debian because 2.6 is just in Experimental currently.
[17:22] <savvas> ScottK: ah ok :) the cgal package merge is ready though blocked by this. bug 374440
[17:23] <ScottK> savvas: Does it work with 1.37?
[17:23] <savvas> I will probably have to wait for boost1.38 to be fixed and re-do it if there's a new cgal package in the future
[17:23] <savvas> didn't try it, I'll check in about 30 minutes and let you know :)
[17:24] <ScottK> 1.37 is already moved to Main, so until we hear otherwise, that's not a bad target.
[17:24] <savvas> oki doki
[17:26] <savvas> darn, "No, dcsharp is no longer active."
[17:50] <LucidFox> Can I rejoin u-u-s? My term expired during the Jaunty cycle.
[18:14] <LucidFox> gilir> There is no need to attach Ubuntu dendiffs when merging, since most of it will be a massive upstream diff that isn't of interest
[18:14] <LucidFox> * debdiffs
[18:15] <gilir> LucidFox: about which bug ?
[18:15] <LucidFox> bug #354825
[18:17] <gilir> I think someone ask one for another package, but I'm agree with you :)
[18:20] <james_w> hey gilir
[18:20] <james_w> stop filing sync requests and apply for MOTU already! :-)
[18:20] <gilir> hi james_w :)
[18:20] <LucidFox> gilir> Commented on gpac
[18:21] <gilir> james_w: I think I finish most of the possible sync :)
[18:21] <james_w> heh
[18:22] <james_w> that wouldn't surprise me :-)
[18:22] <gilir> but yes, I should begin my application :)
[18:29] <proq> does anyone know how I would go about contacting the author of wmi?  I need to talk with them about helping port it to jaunty
[18:31] <superm1> proq, wmi - as in windows management interface?
[18:32] <gilir> LucidFox: Thanks, it FTBFS because the package was removed yesterday :)
[18:32] <proq> superm1: yes
[18:33] <superm1> proq, well what portions of it are you interested in?  it's only got certain applicable areas on linux
[18:33] <proq> superm1: I was mostly interested in the winexec tool
[18:34] <superm1> proq, well i'm not familiar with that unfortunately
[18:36] <proq> is there a vc where multiverse package source is checked in?  I would hate to start from the 8.10 sources when something is already underway
[20:08] <ScottK> james_w: I think your proposal (re UUS) is fine, just make sure you pick the right team to not get the per-package upload rights people included (I think it's just motu as IIRC core-dev belongs to motu).
[20:08] <james_w> yeah
[20:08] <james_w> not sure it matters that much
[20:09] <james_w> but I agree
[20:09] <ScottK> Probably not a big deal, but better more correct than not.
[20:09] <soren> IIRC ubuntu-dev also includes per-package people, while MOTU is... Well, MOTU's.
[20:13] <james_w> ScottK: I did actually hint at that in my mail
[21:01] <fabrice_sp> siretart, I saw you  were looking for help with mplayer and mencoder. What kind of help are you looking for?
[21:03] <siretart> fabrice_sp: atm: extending the debian package to build and install mencoder
[21:04] <fabrice_sp> siretart, ok. But it seems Debian package is dropping mencoder.c, so how could we do that?
[21:04] <siretart> next steps: check what lp bugs are fixed by this update (upstream 1.0rc2 -> 1.0rc3), document that in debian/changelog, upload to ubuntu
[21:04] <siretart> fabrice_sp: checkout the master.unstripped branch. it contains mencoder.c
[21:04] <siretart> fabrice_sp: that package will certainly use a different orig.tar.gz because of mencoder.c
[21:05] <siretart> fabrice_sp: or, if that's easier for you, just copy mencoder.c from the upstream rc3 branch in. I'll cleanup the package then
[21:06] <fabrice_sp> siretart, the latest one seem easier :-)
[21:06] <evanrmurphy> Hi all, I'm going through the Patch Systems part of the Packaging Guide (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patch%20Systems), but some of the example packages I'm downloading don't appear as described in the guide. For example, in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete#Patching%20Without%20a%20Patch%20System, we're dealing with the cron package. The guide says to look for a part in cron's debian/
[21:06] <evanrmurphy> rules about applying and unapplying patches, but it's not in the rules file that came with my apt-get source cron. Am I doing something wrong, or is it possible that the guide is out of date? I'd appreciate your help.
[21:06] <fabrice_sp> so this mean that in the merge diff, I will have that file, right?
[21:06] <fabrice_sp> siretart, ^
[21:07] <siretart> yes, but I'll make sure it will be in the orig.tar.gz for ubuntu
[21:16] <evanrmurphy> Well, if anybody has any suggestions about this, please let me know.
[21:43] <ni|> directhex: you still around?
[21:43] <ni|> i'm using the same deb created by jaunty
[21:43] <ni|> have enabled backports
[21:43] <ni|> all the depends are in the backports as i search through synaptic, yet the system doesn't recongize they are there
[21:43] <ni|> libqtcore4 (and its depends)
[21:43] <ni|> all the qt4 stuff is there
[21:43] <geser> evanrmurphy: not all packages use a patch system
[21:43] <ni|> which is it
[21:44] <ni|> (for my dependencies)
[21:45] <evanrmurphy> geser: Thanks for responding. But cron is the package specifically chosen for this example in the guide, where it's assumed to use a patch system.
[21:47] <geser> evanrmurphy: cron is used as an example for package without a patch system
[21:48] <geser> evanrmurphy: when you read carefully the next example is already for udev and not cron anymore
[21:49] <geser> ni|: what does "apt-cache policy libqtcore4" result? (pastebin please)
[21:52] <evanrmurphy> geser: Sorry for the mistake! I confused the two packages in my question here. In udev I don't see that part in debian/rules about applying and unapplying patches either. As a result, the following Example 1 and Example 2 doesn't seem to work properly on my system.
[21:59] <geser> evanrmurphy: let me guess: you got the udev source from jauny?
[22:00] <geser> evanrmurphy: it looks like the package got change in the meantime. but the udev source from intrepid still uses debian/patches
[22:02] <superm1> siretart_, re: bug 372280, would that mean by the same logic that mythtv could be too?
[22:04] <evanrmurphy> geser: Nice guess. ;) Yes, I'm using Jaunty. Do you know if there's a way for me to apt-get source from Intrepid instead?
[22:06] <kklimonda> hmm.. could someone point me to a better piuparts documentation than manual?
[22:06] <kklimonda> I can't make it do upgrade test for packages..
[22:06] <geser> you could add a deb-src line for intrepid too and tell apt-get source to fetch from intrepid but for one case use "dget -x -u https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+source/udev/124-8/+files/udev_124-8.dsc" is probably faster
[22:07] <kklimonda> according to man all I should have to do is point piuparts to my debs and it will automatically test if they can be upgraded to from version present in repository..
[22:07] <kklimonda> but it doesn't seem to work
[22:07] <kklimonda> (I can paste piuparts.log somewhere)
[22:07] <savvas> james_w: do you have access to commit fixed for packagekit? could you check bug #347327 please? someone posted a fix
[22:07] <savvas> *fixed = fixes
[22:07] <james_w> I used to
[22:07] <james_w> I lost it when it moved to GNOME git
[22:08] <james_w> but I can forward patches
[22:08] <savvas> oh..
[22:08] <james_w> thanks for spotting it though
[22:08] <james_w> I deleted that mail without realising there was a patch attached :-)
[22:08] <savvas> I think it's specific to ubuntu/debian changes launchpad.net/packagekit
[22:09] <savvas> it happens :P
[22:10] <evanrmurphy> geser: Thanks a mil'!
[22:31] <bjfs> Any python packaging mentor around ? ;p
[22:33] <ajmitch> bjfs: there may be some, depending on the problem
[22:33] <ajmitch> otherwise #debian-python on OFTC :)
[22:34] <bjfs> They're silent like the lambs. All I need is to know how to split a source into two packages. One being arch "all" for the application, and another "any" for the module (binding stuff).
[22:35] <bjfs> Currently I'm stuck on having a control file with the two packages described, nothing more ;-)
[22:35] <ajmitch> ah, and you need to split up debian/rules to install the right stuff in the right place?
[22:36] <bjfs> probably so
[22:36] <kklimonda> hmm.. you could also do it using .install and .dirs files..
[22:36] <ajmitch> how is the packaging currently done?
[22:36] <ajmitch> kklimonda: debian/rules should still have the right sections though
[22:36] <kklimonda> bjfs: is it libmimic you have mentioned on #ubuntu-pl ?
[22:37] <bjfs> kklimonda: yes
[22:37] <ajmitch> bjfs: see, POX is responding there also :)
[22:38] <bjfs> I'll try at MOTU first, it is not that complicated
[22:38] <bjfs> but I have no idea on how to split a package into anything
[22:38] <kklimonda> bjfs: why can't you use libmimic from debian experimental? different api/abi?
[22:38] <bjfs> kklimonda: it is not that easy, because that debian package is not what that application needs, it needs a special python module which is already in the source
[22:39] <kklimonda> bjfs: oh - like this..
[22:40] <bjfs> of course I could just switch "all" to "any" and it would make the magic, but I want to split it
[22:42] <bjfs> but since no other app will use that module, maybe I'll just make that "any" :P
[22:42] <bjfs> brainless workaround
[22:43] <kklimonda> well, it isn't that brainless if module is only for this one package.
[22:43] <kklimonda> hmm. I wonder what has happened to my pbuilders.. ~/.pbuilder/ is empty :/
[22:44] <kklimonda> probably reckless rm -rf :/
[22:55] <bjfs> it feels so weird when one joins # full of specialists, no weather talks, just weird talks about insane number of rules on zillion versions ;]
[22:56] <kklimonda> dtchen: if you have some time could you help me with a piuparts? I'm trying to test package upgrade for my vmmouse merge with debian but I must be doing something wrong. According to the piuparts manual it should automatically but for some reason it just doesn't install packages from repository... I have a full log here: http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/163224/piuparts.log
[22:57] <kklimonda> bjfs: that's how #ubuntu channels should be ;)
[23:02] <bjfs> world without PPA's would be boring ;-) another succesful package upload...
[23:03] <Nafallo> i.e. release periods ;-)
[23:25] <ni|> geser: i will paste it now, are you still around?
[23:26] <ni|> pastebin.com/m68ccf486
[23:59] <ni|> awww


[15:59] <korn788> hello i need to command for finding out what my TV card is
[15:59] <Kwisher_wrk> what type of tuner?
[16:00] <korn788> happ
[16:00] <Kwisher_wrk> usb or pci?
[16:00] <korn788> pci
[16:00] <Kwisher_wrk> run lspci from term
[16:01] <korn788> ok i found my card but mythtv doesn't
[16:02] <Kwisher_wrk> you need to find out if there is linux built-in support for your card
[16:02] <Kwisher_wrk> look in the mythtv wiki
[16:03] <korn788> where is the wiki
[16:03] <korn788> never mined gooled
[16:04] <korn788> googled
[16:04] <Kwisher_wrk> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Category:Hardware
[16:06] <Kwisher_wrk> if myth can't find it then most likely you might need to find the firmware for it
[16:08] <korn788> wiki said for my card Upstream cx23885 driver support the card since kernel 2.6.26.
[16:08] <korn788> so that means its already in the latest kernel
[16:09] <Kwisher_wrk> what is the model number?
[16:09] <korn788> this is what the wiki saids Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-1200
[16:13] <Kwisher_wrk> i see a 1250 but no 1200
[16:14] <korn788> yea i forgot /dev/video0
[16:14] <korn788> and it showed up 1250\
[16:14] <Kwisher_wrk> so are wanting to tune digital or analog?
[16:15] <korn788> analog with a set top box
[16:15] <korn788> verzion fios
[16:15] <korn788> ive tried in the past but failed
[16:16] <korn788> could not get IR blaster working
[16:16] <Kwisher_wrk> i find it hard to believe it's an analog signal
[16:18] <korn788> well the card can only do HD if its over the air
[16:18] <korn788> plus my box is not HD
[16:19] <Kwisher_wrk> sorry, i don't know how to help with your setup
[16:20] <korn788> its cool ive been down this path before i can't find really anything for IR blaster stuff in linux
[16:20] <Kwisher_wrk> maybe install tvtime to see if it is actually see the signal from the stb
[16:21] <Kwisher_wrk> ir and the video are separate things
[16:21] <korn788> yea i think i had video working before years ago but IR Blaster was the hard part for me and still os
[16:22] <korn788> is*
[16:23] <korn788> now will tvtime help find out if my IR blaster works
[16:24] <korn788> Nope
[16:24] <korn788> never mind
[18:33] <squidly> has anyone though of using an iscsi server to boot the backend and using all the disk on the front end for show storage?
[18:53] <tgm4883> I've not, why would someone want to do that
[19:00] <korn788> how do i manually setup xml EPG