[12:25] <BluesKaj> Hi all
[12:43] <RikMills> santa_: all your changes uploaded
[19:40] -queuebot:#kubuntu-devel- Builds: Kubuntu Desktop amd64 [Jammy 22.04.1] (20220729.1) has been added
[19:56] <santa_> RikMills: ack, and thanks a lot, I going to be fixing a few more now


[12:00] <schweeb> \sh: ew kmail. my hate for that is for purely different reasons than evo (mostly I refuse to install Qt)
[12:02] <\sh> schweeb: well..then only one solution left: thunderbird ;)
[12:04] <bob2> eddyp: malone is both
[12:04] <eddyp> umkay
[12:04] <schweeb> \sh: yes, that is what I use :)
[12:06] <\sh> bob2: malone is far away from being a bugzilla replacement, but it's a good beginning for non-bugzilla noobs ;)
[12:06] <bob2> meh
[12:07] <eddyp> bob2: will malone be open source?
[12:07] <eddyp> i am thinking that if it is better than bugzilla, then it would be a nice tool
[12:08] <schweeb> I believe it'll be closed source
[12:08] <schweeb> like Rosetta is
[12:08] <eddyp> I was wondering about this... why is that?
[12:09] <schweeb> cause it's one of the things that Canonical has decided to make its profit off of, most likely
[12:10] <eddyp> and they use ubuntu as a test bench at the same time
[12:10] <eddyp> nice idea
[12:10] <eddyp> and smart
[12:10] <seb128> tseng, evo has really some issue ?
[12:11] <tseng> seb128: yep
[12:11] <seb128> and detail ?
[12:11] <seb128> s/and/any/
[12:11] <tseng> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[12:11] <tseng>   evolution: Depends: libcamel1.2-3 (>= 1.2.2) but it is not going to be installed
[12:11] <tseng>              Depends: evolution-data-server (>= 1.2.1) but it is not going to be installed
[12:11] <tseng> eddyp: Broken packages
[12:11] <seb128> doesn't help a lot
[12:11] <seb128> do you why/how it's broken, how to fix it ?
[12:11] <tseng> wel, everything else is built with libcamel1.2-0
[12:12] <seb128> "everything else" ?
[12:12] <eddyp> tseng: errr, what?
[12:12] <tseng> c-l-a, gnomemeeting, libebook
[12:12] <eddyp> autocompetion does not work in this manner
[12:12] <eddyp> :)
[12:13] <tseng> libedata-book1.2-2, libdataserverui1.2, nautilus-sendto
[12:13] <seb128> hum
[12:13] <tseng> i *think* libcamel1.2-3 got synced from sid
[12:13] <seb128> feel free to fix it i you want, or I'll fix that within 1 or 2 weeks
[12:13] <tseng> and broke it all
[12:14] <tseng> ill bring up mutt and see if its in b-changes
[12:14] <Keybuk> yeah
[12:14] <Keybuk> evolution-data-server1.2 got synced from sid
[12:14] <Keybuk> and overwrote our evolution-data-server (note no 1.2) packages
[12:14] <seb128> fuck
[12:14] <Keybuk> needs another e-d-s upload to put it back
[12:15] <seb128> I pinged elmo saturday about this but got no reply, I get that's not the right week to ping somebody :p
[12:15] <seb128> -1 was ftbfsing on saturday
[12:15] <Keybuk> indeed
[12:15] <tseng> im not sure if i am in keyring, but im almost certain I cant upload to main
[12:15] <tseng> any takers?
[12:15] <Keybuk> next week is non-hacking as well
[12:16] <seb128> right, but if I've the bandwith I can do one upload
[12:17] <Keybuk> I _think_ that uploading an evolution-data-server 1.2.2-2ubuntu1 package would suffive
[12:17] <Keybuk> even if it's just 1ubuntu1 with the version number changed
[12:17] <seb128> I think so
[12:17] <seb128> I put the version to 1ubuntu1 instead of 0ubuntu1 for this reason on the previous one
[12:17] <Keybuk> it's not hugely urgent though
[12:17] <Keybuk> it's an impossible upgrade, so the worst people can do without trying hard is have the slightly older evo packages
[12:18] <tseng> yeah i was just joking about it, i assumed you were aware of the situation
[12:18] <seb128> nop, some people put a useless bugzilla bug
[12:18] <seb128> ie: they managed to put 10 comments without any one useful to understand the bug
[12:19] <tseng> well, you understand it now :)
[12:19] <seb128> and we have a 3ko/s download or something like that here
[12:19] <tseng> ugh.
[12:24] <|QuaD-> tseng: how is mono 1.1.x/beagle in breezy coming along?
[12:25] <tseng> fine.
[12:25] <|QuaD-> do you have an eta?
[12:25] <tseng> after UDU
[12:26] <|QuaD-> is it finnished and you are just waiting?
[12:26] <tseng> yes
[12:26] <tseng> mostly.
[12:26] <|QuaD-> heh, ok :(
[12:28] <ogra> morning pitti
[12:28] <tseng> hi ogra
[12:28] <pitti> Hey everybody
[12:28] <tseng> hi pitti.
[12:28] <ogra> hey tseng
[12:28] <seb128> morning pitti
[12:28] <zyga> hello pitti
[12:28] <amu-> moin pitti
[12:28] <pitti> Hey seb128, long time no see
[12:29] <seb128> right :)
[12:29] <ogra> pitti, you dont look under your bed to often, eh
[12:29] <ogra> ?
[12:30] <\sh> ogra: have a nice day down under :) don't eat to many kangas ;)
[12:30] <ogra> heh... havent even seen one yet :)
[12:31] <tseng> wo ist herr holbach? :P
[12:31] <\sh> ogra: well, they're frightend because of you :) a german with long hair ... no ways, lets get a move on ;)
[12:31] <ogra> tseng, they are buying washing powder....
[12:32] <tseng> get the linux brand
[12:32] <\sh> they have "plus" there?
[12:32] <ogra> \sh, no, i think they fear me because i dont wear that nifty crocodile dundee hat
[12:32] <\sh> hehehe
[12:32] <\sh> ogra: i have one..why didn't you ask for it ;)
[12:33] <ogra> \sh, they are not to expensive, so i can have my own one :)
[12:35] <\sh> *grmpf* again harddrive broken at netapp-orastore
[12:35] <\sh> time to sleep...
[12:36] <\sh> g'night gentlemen :)
[12:38] <zyga> argh
[12:43] <pitti> zyga: what should it use instead?
[12:51] <jcole> Kamion: i've gotten further... it appears that the adduser .deb is needed... is there a way to get the list of debs i need to copy back :)
[12:54] <Kamion> jcole: not really. look in /usr/lib/debootstrap/scripts/hoary for a start, but you'll need more than that.
[12:54] <Kamion> jcole: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/hoary/base might be a useful start to
[12:54] <Kamion> er, too
[12:57] <jcole> thanks again Kamion, i'll do some more homework before bugging you again... when i figure this out, i'll be sure to post up a how to
[12:59] <crb> Hi.
[12:59] <crb> Can anyone shed any light on why the kernel package in hoary is versioned 2.6.10-7 and the modules, 2.6.10-5 ?
[01:00] <Kamion> crb: the latter is the module ABI
[01:00] <Kamion> crb: every time binary module compatibility breaks, the number that's currently 5 is incremented
[01:00] <Kamion> crb: the former is simply the package version, incremented on every upload
[01:01] <Kamion> although actually I don't know where you got 2.6.10-7 ...
[01:01] <crb> I'm sure it was -7 somewhere, let me look..
[01:02] <crb> linux-image-386_2.6.10-7_i386.deb
[01:02] <Kamion> oh, that's a metapackage; again, that's just the package version
[01:02] <Kamion> linux-image-386 is just there to depend on the current linux-image-*-386 (currently linux-image-2.6.10-5-386)
[01:03] <crb> I'm remastering a hoary CD with preseed and some universe packages I want on it (I've removed all the packages that ubuntu-desktop depends on)
[01:03] <Lathiat> ~>
[01:03] <crb> my pool still contains all the right files, but for some reason I can't install linux-image-386 any more so the installer is falling over.
[01:03] <Kamion> make sure you have all linux-* packages from the original CD
[01:03] <crb> And it's obviously not the versioning. :)
[01:03] <dholbach> hai
[01:04] <Kamion> linux-386 is the one used by default ...
[01:04] <crb> I was pretty sure I did.. there's nothing special in the Packages file that dpkg-scanpackages won't generate for me?
[01:04] <Kamion> (or should be, anyway; base-installer is finicky)
[01:04] <Kamion> crb: (a) you probably want to use apt-ftparchive nowadays instead, (b) Task: headers
[01:05] <crb> I'm skipping tasksel so I'm less worried about those
[01:05] <Kamion> we don't use tasksel either
[01:06] <crb> the installer is trying to install linux-386 and failing because l-i-386 is not installable and l-r-m-386 is not going to be installed.  Yet all of the packages are in the pool and in the right place...
[01:06] <Kamion> they're used by archive-copier and base-config. however if you aren't installing the desktop and don't care about preserving the "CD used only in first stage of install" thing then Task: headers probably won't be necessary
[01:07] <Kamion> did you keep all the dependencies of those? they're not all linux-*
[01:07] <Kamion> particularly in the case of l-r-m
[01:07] <crb> I'm reasonably sure I did, but I might have missed something
[01:07] <Kamion> failing that, try 'chroot /target apt-get install linux-386' and start drilling down by hand
[01:08] <Kamion> as in, try each package in turn until you get a useful error
[01:08] <crb> there are a couple of packages that caused me grief; I removed everything that ubuntu-desktop dragged in, and it ended up removing libsasl2 and lsb-* for some reason
[01:08] <crb> I'm doing that already; the errors aren't that useful :(
[01:09] <crb> just 'couldn't find packages' for those packages
[01:09] <crb> but they're there, on the CD, same place...
[01:09] <Kamion> apt-get doesn't look through the pool itself; it uses the Packages indices
[01:09] <Kamion> it won't matter a dime whether they're actually on the CD if they're missing from Packages
[01:09] <crb> I checked the Packages indices for the files, and they were actually there
[01:10] <Kamion> ok
[01:11] <Kamion> might also be worth checking whether /target/etc/apt/sources.list got set up correctly
[01:11] <crb> you at linux.conf.au?
[01:12] <crb> aha - Packages.gz MD5SUM mismatch
[01:18] <dholbach> do we have a page stating when people will be in sydney?
[01:19] <dholbach> hey lamont
[01:19] <dholbach> lamont: when will you be here? sunday?
[01:20] <lamont> dholbach: I arrive at 6AM saturday, for a day of running around sydney before I'm supposed to be tehre
[01:20] <dholbach> lamont: cool
[01:20] <dholbach> lamont: we can show you the nice spots ;-)
[01:20] <lamont> heh
[01:20] <lamont> coolness
[01:20] <dholbach> hrm... need to get back to the power supply
[01:21] <dholbach> sydney really rocks#
[01:22] <crb> I hope you're all looking forward to coming to New Zealand for lca next year :)
[01:23] <infinity> lca in .nz?... But.. But.. That would be lcnz...
[01:23] <infinity> <head explodes>
[01:24] <luis_> I'm totally looking forward to lcanz
[01:24] <HrdwrBoB> lcapr
[01:24] <HrdwrBoB> now in papua new guinea
[01:28] <milli> lamont: Bandwidth available for a few hours
[01:31] <lamont> milli: hrm...  doing ok here I think,..
[01:31] <lamont> or was that a dinner invite?
[01:35] <alex_g> do you plan an update from evolution <IP_ADDRESS> to 2.2.2?
[01:37] <lamont> alex_g: bug #9693 at bugilla.ubuntu.com
[01:39] <lamont> elmo: quik-installer is unknown, and not actually in main.
[01:47] <jdub> ahr
[01:47] <dholbach> jdub
[01:47] <tseng> yar
[01:47] <tseng> its a dub!
[01:47] <alex_g> ok
[01:48] <dholbach> jdub: when we're going to have a beer?
[01:49] <dholbach> jdub: or aren't you in sydney atm? probably not...
[01:49] <dholbach> nevermind me
[01:51] <jdub> dholbach: heh, no, in canberra atm
[01:51] <jdub> dholbach: i will see you on sunday or monday :)
[01:53] <dholbach> jdub: cool, i'm sure we all need some "warming up" for UDU, in the one way or the other :-)
[02:13] <crb> hmmm
[02:14] <crb> remove the MD5SUMS from the Release file in dists/ and the installer complains about not finding the other Packages[,.gz]  files
[02:19] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  yo
[02:19] <bluefoxicy> evidently my allocator almost but not quite works ;)
[02:19] <bluefoxicy> (it's generating negative-sized allocations)
[02:23] <blahrus> is ac3 still broken in mplayer?
[02:27] <zul> hey dholbach
[02:32] <dholbach> hey zul
[02:32] <zul> how is it going?
[02:33] <dholbach> zul: very nice... brainstorming with seb128
[02:33] <zul> cool
[02:34] <dholbach> zul: you'll be here in sydney?
[02:34] <zul> nope...unforutnately maybe the next one
[02:35] <dholbach> oh, i'm sorry :-/
[02:35] <zul> besides my wife would whine forever if she couldnt go :)
[02:35] <dholbach> ah... i understand
[02:38] <infinity> pitti : still enjoying Sydney, or are you sick of it already?
[02:39] <pitti> infinity: it's a bit rainy today, time for preparing some BoFs and writing some postcards :-) But it's fine, there are still things I want to do here
[02:51] <Kamion> crb: LCA> yeah
[02:51] <Kamion> crb: you have to update the md5sums/sizes in Release, and then figure out what to do about Release.gpg
[02:52] <Kamion> replacing the ubuntu-keyring package with one that includes your key is an option :) we're going to talk at UDU about how to make this less gratuitously painful
[02:52] <lamont> Kamion: and "what to do about Release.gpg" is to generate a new key, and add that to the ubuntu-keyring package, which you also update, and iterate...
[02:54] <lamont> Kamion: actually... if memory serves, there are other ways to abuse it much nicer...
[02:55] <Kamion> lamont: what to do about it> making apt just get a grip and not care about authentication on CDs is my preferred option :)
[02:55] <lamont> ISTR that my custom dvd this time around, I left the root tree alone, added an /extras/ directory, and just dropped a complete archive under that (which had an updateded ubuntu-keying, etc)
[02:55] <Kamion> as in, not care if it's missing altogether
[02:55] <lamont> since the installer looks for all the Packages files on the CD, you get the new stuff, and I didn't have to pollute the actual release tree
[02:56] <lamont> of course, cd-checker probably doesn't like that too much
[02:57] <Kamion> shouldn't think it'd care
[02:59] <lamont> even better... /me didn't check
[03:00] <lamont><PHONE_NUMBER>8a06f92d0b8dd2ed317a29  egenix-mx-base_2.0.6.orig.tar.gz
[03:00] <lamont> 6989793b7cb6b577be9ebfdd554884ac egenix-mx-base_2.0.6.orig.tar.gz
[03:00] <lamont> hrm.... what's wrong with that picture
[03:02] <seb128> elmo, around ?
[03:11] <dholbach> hey seb128
[03:12] <seb128> dholbach, nice to see you again
[03:17] <lamont> mdz: around?
[03:17] <jp> where have I to go to report a broken package?
[03:18] <lamont> jp: universe or main?
[03:18] <jp> universe
[03:19] <jp> libgnome-cil (gtk-sharp)
[03:19] <jp> ok =)
[03:19] <jp> I was trying to get libgnome-cil but: libgnome-cil: depends of: libgda2-1 (>= 1.1.99) but it's not installable
[03:19] <jp> jeje =)
[03:20] <lamont> although the question is actually off-topic for here (it's on-topic for #ubuntu)
[03:20] <jp> yep I know
[03:20] <dholbach> jp: you might ask tseng for mono stuff
[03:20] <jp> but I knot too it's a error, I know the package is broken 'cause I've installed it before without problems
[03:20] <jp> dholbach ok thanks =
[03:20] <jp> dholbach ok thanks =P
[03:20] <lamont> dholbach: I was thinking more generically - where does one report universe bugs these days?/
[03:21] <lamont> aha! mdz_ is here
[03:21] <thom> lamont: malone
[03:21] <jp> mdz_ libgnome-cil is broken =(
[03:21] <lamont> jp: my aha was totally unrelated to your item
[03:22] <jp> oh sorry
[03:22] <jp> :(
[03:22] <jp> tseng I was trying to get libgnome-cil but: libgnome-cil: depends of: libgda2-1 (>= 1.1.99) but it's not installable
[03:22] <jp> xD
[03:22] <lamont> mdz_: you really here, or just being bouncy-bouncy?
[03:22] <seb128> people, just wait for breezy breakage stuff
[03:23] <seb128> that's going to be fixed but not now
[03:23] <jp> seb128 ok
[03:23] <thom> seb128: *g*, how's sydney?
[03:23] <jp> but I tried the hoary libgnome-cil too
[03:23] <jp> and it gets the same error..
[03:23] <seb128> crappy weather, out of this that rocks :)
[03:24] <lamont> seb128: fwiw, I'm hoping to finish filing bugs on all the breezy ftbfs stuff todate
[03:24] <lamont> sometime before I sleep
[03:24] <seb128> I mean when you don't get hurt by the sun it rains :p
[03:24] <jp> !
[03:24] <tseng> jp: after udu
[03:24] <thom> seb128: *giggle*
[03:24] <tseng> jp: breezy is broken for now, we're all dealing
[03:25] <dholbach> and their local beer (VB) is soooo good
[03:25] <seb128> lamont, no hurry, I'll not fix any package this week
[03:25] <jp> so tseng thanks :(
[03:25] <lamont> seb128: yeah - but I want a reasonably clean slate before I get on the plane tomorrow
[03:25] <seb128> right
[03:25] <seb128> I've only 600 bugs on my list
[03:26] <seb128> some 50 new should not change a lot *g*
[03:26] <thom> dholbach: i *really* hope you're joking
[03:26] <Kamion> at least I'm not top of the list of bug assignees ;)
[03:26] <dholbach> thom: why?
[03:26] <Kamion> a friend of mine actually likes VB *boggle*
[03:26] <thom> dholbach: you *like* VB?
[03:26] <seb128> german guys have no taste at all
[03:27] <dholbach> thom: you're used to wrong sort of beer ;-)
[03:27] <bob2> even .auians know vb is bad
[03:27] <lamont> Kamion: who is? /me bets seb128 (well, ignoring debzilla@, that is)(
[03:27] <seb128> thom, they are just german, don't be that rude with them
[03:27] <bob2> I'll have to find some coopers heritage for you
[03:27] <dholbach> yes, thom, i do :-)
[03:27] <thom> dholbach: dude, vb is not beer, it's water with some added alcohol
[03:27] <Kamion> lamont: no idea :)
[03:27] <crb> Kamion: having to sign Release.gpg sounds like altogether too much work.  Can't we just have the installer ignore signing? ;)
[03:27] <Kamion> lamont: although I'd bet the same
[03:27] <Kamion> crb: that's what I said ...
[03:27] <dholbach> hrm, i'm open for suggestions :-)
[03:27] <crb> yeah
[03:28] <Kamion> 01:55 < Kamion> lamont: what to do about it> making apt just get a grip and not care about authentication on CDs is my preferred option :)
[03:28] <Kamion> it's not the installer's fault
[03:41] <infinity> Someone likes VB?
[03:41] <lamont> seb128: gonna just fix gtk-doc for you, since it's trivial
[03:41] <daniels> infinity: lies.
[03:42] <lamont> Kamion: agreed
[03:42] <infinity> daniels : dholbach claims he does.  <points>
[03:42] <seb128> lamont, thanls
[03:42] <seb128> thanks even
[03:42] <dholbach> pitti, mvo, ogra, doko, riddell, amu: back me up :-)
[03:42] <seb128> can anybody drop e-d-s1.2 from the archive ?
[03:42] <infinity> dholbach : You mean, there are SEVERAL people who like VB?
[03:43] <infinity> daniels, thom : Time to fork the company.
[03:43] <dholbach> sissies :-)
[03:43] <lamont> seb128: is the old 'jade needs to be before docbook-dsssl in build-deps' thing
[03:44] <tseng> lamont: nope.
[03:44] <lamont> tseng: ??
[03:44] <tseng> eds got pulled in from sid
[03:44] <tseng> it doesnt belond
[03:44] <tseng> s/d/g
[03:45] <lamont> tseng: right... and my comment was on gtk-doc's ftbfs...
[03:45] <daniels> ok, you guys can all drink VB
[03:45] <daniels> just don't force it upon us :P
[03:45] <tseng> lamont: missed that
[03:45] <tseng> sleep time
[03:45] <lamont> daniels: and here I was starting to be afraid that they meant visual basic
[03:45] <dholbach> daniels: what do you suggest? :-)
[03:45] <infinity> lamont : Almost as vile.
[03:45] <dholbach> lamont: hahahaah
[03:46] <lamont> infinity: the so-called language is almost as vile, or the drink is?
[03:46] <daniels> dholbach: coopers pale ale, james squire porter, james squire golden ale, emersons chocolate stout, coopers heritage
[03:46] <crb> lamont: thanks for your idea re extras, I think I'll do that
[03:46] <daniels> pretty much anything else except tooheys new or anything with 'light' in the name
[03:46] <crb> will cause far less pain down the track
[03:46] <daniels> oh, an beez neez too
[03:46] <bob2> boags STRONG ARM
[03:47] <dholbach> daniels: ahhhh ok - we have the drink store like 10 meters from here :-)
[03:47] <schweeb> hi dholbach

[03:47] <daniels> infinity: oh man.
[03:48] <dholbach> hey schweeb
[03:48] <schweeb> see you're planning on getting properly sloshed tonight, hehe
[03:48] <daniels> bob2: boags original bitter (in the tubes) is actually very good.  garish yellow tubes.
[03:48] <lamont> infinity: are you doing the modutils merge?
[03:48] <infinity> lamont : Unless you want it..
[03:48] <infinity> lamont : it's on my TODO this afternoon.
[03:48] <lamont> more power to you...
[03:49] <lamont> otherwise, since it's my package in debian... :-)
[03:49] <dholbach> what a nice version number: 20040816.BlameClockworkOrange-auto.3-1
[03:49] <lamont> mind you, 'tis better for someone with a 2.4 kernel to actually do the work... :-)
[03:49] <infinity> lamont : Oh, if you're upstream, then take it. :)
[03:49] <lamont> infinity: I have no 2.4 kernel boxen atm
[03:49] <infinity> lamont : I can't have a 2.4 kernel anymore, since jbailey screwed me. :)
[03:50] <lamont> infinity: I'll go ahead and take it then
[03:50] <infinity> lamont : (I run on PowerPC, glibc 2.3.5 on PPC doesn't support linux_threads, no more 2.4 for me)
[03:50] <lamont> heh
[03:50] <lamont> I guess I can see if the i386 box I have will actually boot a 2.4 kernel from universe
[03:50] <infinity> lamont : Just remember to reassign it to yourself, so I don't complete forgot this conversation in 2 hours and do it anyway. :)
[03:51] <infinity> s/complete/completely/
[03:51] <infinity> s/forgot/forget/ too.  Gah.  I'm turning Japanese.
[03:51] <lamont> daniels: you want a bug for l-r-m hating gcc-4.0, or you gonna just have fixed it already./
[03:51] <lamont> ?
[03:52] <lamont> infinity: reassigned
[03:52] <bluefoxicy> can somebody fix my shit?  :/
[03:52] <bob2> bluefoxicy: no
[03:52] <bluefoxicy> apparently the code I wrote for managing miniallocs has been producing allocations of negative size
[03:53] <bluefoxicy> oh
[03:53] <bluefoxicy> and Xine segfaults on amd64
[03:53] <bluefoxicy> I used to get around this by disabling the enforcement of PROT_EXEC when I used a pax kernel
[03:53] <bluefoxicy> (paxctl is nice)
[03:54] <bluefoxicy> so like, somebody from universe should look into fixing xine-lib
[03:54] <bluefoxicy> since it's infinitely better with video than the choppy ass gstreamer0.8 crap that jerks and renders poorly and freezes if you seek more than 3 times
[03:54] <daniels> lamont: i'll take the bug, yo
[03:54] <bluefoxicy> (i.e. totem)
[03:55] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  how goes, anything sweet coming up for xorg?
[03:56] <lamont> daniels: 9984
[03:56] <schweeb> bluefoxicy: does it work with the debian xine-lib?  cause breezy is synced now, afaik...
[03:56] <bluefoxicy> schweeb:  not sure.
[03:56] <bluefoxicy> I need a source of massive income.
[03:56] <schweeb> that'd be a good place to start
[03:56] <bluefoxicy> if I had $200 to blow, I'd put out a bounty on like, a driver for my broadcom card in my laptop
[03:57] <schweeb> if it was fixed in the sync, it's probably not worth your while to complain about it
[03:57] <daniels> bluefoxicy: i'm really enjoying my one-week holiday :P
[03:57] <bluefoxicy> schweeb:  i'll try.
[03:57] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  heh.
[03:57] <daniels> working on xorg upstream, as it happens
[03:58] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  heh.  So is there a hardware nvidia dri driver now with hardware 3D and a kernel driver?
[03:59] <bluefoxicy> It even crashes under DEP on Windows on amd64, much less PaX on Linux
[03:59] <daniels> i have no specs from nvidia.  they maintain the 'open source' driver as well as the proprietary one; i have no insight into them.
[04:00] <bluefoxicy> daniels:  so put a logic analyzer in the kernel?  :P
[04:01] <mdz_> lamont: I'm sort of half-here
[04:03] <lamont> mdz_: is it better for me to have you sync a debian bug, or just file one and add the alias to snarf everything?
[04:03] <daniels> bluefoxicy: too complex
[04:03] <daniels> also not worth it for a vendor that will only go more and more closed
[04:03] <daniels> they're not going to say 'oh well, someone's got it half-figured out, might as well release our driver'
[04:04] <daniels> bearing in mind that the r300.sf.net guys were working from the r200 source and also have 2d docs for r300
[04:05] <bluefoxicy> schweeb:  no updated xine-lib in breezy
[04:07] <bluefoxicy> what's after breezy?  RaunchyRacoon?    Luckily most of the people around here aren't so. But the few who are know who they are.... /me glares at them
[04:20] <bluefoxicy> i'm constantly surrounded by stupidity.
[04:20] <bluefoxicy> I work in retail.
[04:20] <schweeb> I've got you beat, I work in the financial industry.
[04:21] <schweeb> (for one more week, at least)
[04:21] <HrdwrBoB> ha.
[04:21] <HrdwrBoB> I work in government.
[04:21] <schweeb> WINNER
[04:21] <HrdwrBoB> :)
[04:21] <schweeb> although, financial stuff has to be a close second ;)
[04:22] <schweeb> dholbach: passed my bg check and everything, start my new job next friday!
[04:23] <dholbach> schweeb: woohoo :-)
[04:25] <dholbach> ogra: done
[04:26] <ogra> dholbach, great :)
[04:28] <bluefoxicy> http://rafb.net/paste/results/lcaHUV32.html  :/
[04:28] <bluefoxicy> debugging data from my allocator, I'm making negative allocations.
[04:29] <lamont> bob2: the collective noun for crows is 'murder'
[04:34] <A_Alam> can some please help me, where i can add my langauge to ubuntu5.x?
[04:35] <pitti> A_Alam: you mean desktop translations?
[04:35] <pitti> A_Alam: the easiest method is to just start to translate applications on Rosetta
[04:35] <A_Alam> pitti, for liveCD, i want to boot in my lang
[04:36] <pitti> A_Alam: -> #ubuntu, please
[04:36] <A_Alam> desktop i m using Rosetta
[04:36] <A_Alam> pitti, thanks
[04:43] <pitti> A_Alam: can you please file a bug against debian-installer about adding Punjabi to the list of langs?
[04:44] <A_Alam> k,
[04:56] <pitti> ajmitch: ping
[04:57] <pitti> tseng: ping
[05:07] <pitti> Hi fabbione
[05:07] <pitti> fabbione: don't mind going to sleep?
[05:10] <dholbach> see you later
[05:19] <fabbione> morning
[05:21] <schweeb> guess it's about time for me to go to bed, fabbione's up :)
[05:21] <Mithrandir> heh :P
[05:22] <schweeb> <3 perl though
[05:22] <fabbione> eheh
[05:22] <ogra> hey fabbione
[05:22] <Mithrandir> it's just so broken; perl includes a config.h file.
[05:23] <ogra> heh
[05:25] <fabbione> hey ogra
[05:27] <lamont> daniels: I tossed 9997 at you, hope you don't mind... :))
[05:28] <daniels> lamont: libxss-dev, yo
[05:32] <fabbione> lamont: did you start filing FTBFS bugs around?
[05:34] <infinity> fabbione : Yes, there are a few.
[05:35] <lamont> Bug 10000 has been added to the database
[05:35] <lamont> fabbione: yes
[05:35] <fabbione> infinity: i have a few tons on sparc :)
[05:35] <fabbione> lamont: if you have a list of packages, it would be a good idea to compare them with the sparcc buildd "needsreallove" mailbox
[05:35] <fabbione> lamont: apparently gcc-4 is not behaving properly on all arches
[05:36] <fabbione> not in the same way at least
[05:36] <lamont> fabbione: among the fun ones... g77-3.4 is in universe, but g77 depends on it.  libtiffxx0 is in universe, but libtiff4 depends on it...
[05:36] <lamont> etc.
[05:36] <fabbione> lamont: yes.. that's why there is also a "builddep" forlder :)
[05:49] <lamont> or rather, whether or not it's legal to require that 'localhost' resolve.
[05:49] <fabbione> hmm that should always be resolvable via /etc/hosts
[05:49] <lamont> fabbione: not when there's no /etc/hosts in the chroot (hasn't been one yet... finally got a failure)
[05:51] <lamont> fabbione: hence I have to decide if I believe that it's really something that belongs in a minimal chroot, or if it's a valid FTBFS...
[05:51] <fabbione> what pkg is that?
[05:51] <lamont> with the exception of libapache2-mod-perl2, ipsec-tools, and iptraf, I'm done with my bonafide ftbfs's
[05:51] <lamont>  libapache2-mod-perl2
[05:53] <fabbione> hmm i have /etc/hosts and that's bootstrapping the chroot with --variant=buildd
[05:53] <fabbione> meh no
[05:53] <fabbione> but i have a resolv.conf
[05:53] <lamont> right
[05:53] <fabbione> and a dns that resolvs all possible combination of localhost :)
[05:53] <lamont> not so in the data center.. :-)
[05:54] <fabbione> my dc > london dc
[05:54] <fabbione> :P
[05:54] <Mithrandir> daniels: why does x drop .pc files in usr/X11R6/lib/pkgconfig/ ?
[05:56] <daniels> Mithrandir: because ProjectRoot is /usr/X11R6, and the monolithic tree is crap
[05:56] <daniels> you won't have to wait long for those to disappear; don't worry
[05:56] <Mithrandir> daniels: make the directory a symlink or something.
[05:56] <Mithrandir> in the build
[05:56] <fabbione> daniels: have you decided to kill X11R6 for breezy?
[05:56] <Mithrandir> I'd like to get pkgconfig in Debian and Ubuntu in sync
[05:57] <daniels> fabbione: yes
[05:57] <daniels> Mithrandir: ARGH M YEYES
[05:57] <daniels> Mithrandir: just be patient and /usr/X11R6/lib will be a symlink
[05:58] <daniels> and you can kill that nasty hack
[05:58] <fabbione> daniels:_ just X11R6 .
[05:58] <fabbione> everything will come up of one layer and match FHS
[05:58] <fabbione> :)
[05:58] <Mithrandir> daniels: it's not a nasty hack any more, it's just annoying to not being able to get elmo to sync.
[06:00] <daniels> Mithrandir: yeah
[06:00] <daniels> fabbione: heh :) somet hings are moving though, e.g. fonts to /usr/share
[06:00] <daniels> fabbione: so easier to make more fine-grained symlinks
[06:08] <infinity> lamont : It's certainly valid for a package to spawn a temporary daemon to do loopback selftests during build (IMO), so if localhost can't resolve, are you going to tell them to use <IP_ADDRESS>?...
[06:12] <ajmitch> pitti: pong
[06:13] <pitti> ajmitch: you are doing SELinux stuff? I'm on the list of people for the SELinux BoF, but I have no clue about the technical details of SELinux
[06:13] <pitti> ajmitch: I do grsecurity on my machines...
[06:13] <pitti> ajmitch: can you lead the BoF?
[06:13] <ajmitch> yes, I am..
[06:13] <pitti> ajmitch: or tseng?
[06:13] <ajmitch> yeah, I can probably do that
[06:14] <pitti> ajmitch: would be cool; can you put some ideas on the BoF page?
[06:14] <pitti> ajmitch: I will take a look at the page tomorrow if there is something at it, and do some comments maybre
[06:14] <ajmitch> sure, I'll try & do that over the next couple of days before I leave, not much time right now :)
[06:24] <lamont> infinity: that's the question of the day... it should probably resolve..
[06:24] <lamont> but I want to sleep on it.
[06:35] <Unfrgiven> hi all. im not a ubuntu developer but am keen to get involved in linux development work. i am going to be at UDU next week as a way to find out how to get involved. does anyone have any suggestions as to what i can do in the meanwhile (myself). my strengths lie in C, C++ and perl. I've been a debian user for about 3+ years now.
[06:36] <infinity> lamont : We removed a test from php4's configure that tried to resolve localhost "just in case", but I'd be more inclined to say it should be a buildd requirement anyway.
[06:37] <Mithrandir> Unfrgiven: if you want to maintain packages, the MOTU (Masters of The Universe) team is probably for you.
[06:37] <thom> Unfrgiven: probably best of asking that kind of question in #ubuntu-love or #ubuntu-motu
[06:37] <Unfrgiven> Mithrandir: yeah i'd very much be interested in package maintenance
[06:37] <thom> as Mithrandir says, you really need to be working with MOTU
[06:37] <Unfrgiven> thom: thanks, i'll check that out. apologies for intruding in the wrong channel.
[06:38] <Mithrandir> Unfrgiven: no problem.  There's also a fair amount of stuff on the wiki
[06:38] <crimsun> Unfrgiven: pleae see wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[06:38] <crimsun> please^
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> hey all
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> I was thinking
[06:38] <Diablo-D3> ubuntu needs a package called ubuntu
[06:39] <Diablo-D3> that you can just apt-get, and it installs everything that a default install of ubuntu has
[06:39] <Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: you mean ubuntu-desktop?
[06:40] <crimsun> (or kubuntu-desktop for kubuntu)
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> er
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> woah
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> that may be what I want
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> but does it literally include everything?
[06:40] <Diablo-D3> including things that arnt desktop related?
[06:41] <infinity> A default ubuntu installation is pretty desktop oriented.
[06:41] <Mithrandir> it depends on ubuntu-base and so on
[06:41] <Diablo-D3> Ooh
[06:41] <Diablo-D3> thats exactly what I'm looking for then
[06:41] <infinity> (mainly cause the server installation doesn't have much of anything, because no two server admins can ever agree on what they think the "default" packages should be)
[06:41] <Diablo-D3> infinity: the default server installation should be debian.
[06:41] <Diablo-D3> ie, minimalistic as possible
[06:42] <Diablo-D3> but still possible to boot and support most hardware
[06:42] <Diablo-D3> and not suck that bad
[06:43] <Diablo-D3> hrm, question
[06:43] <Diablo-D3> why does it depend on x-window-system-core and not x-window-system?
[06:44] <infinity> Because x-window-system pulls in default window managers and session managers and such that people don't want.
[06:44] <lamont> infinity: that, and installing daemons that only listen on <IP_ADDRESS> by default is kinda painful for the admins... hence the proposal to remove all MTA's from ubuntu-base
[06:44] <infinity> (like twm and zdm and whatnot)
[06:44] <infinity> lamont : Yeah, agreed.
[06:44] <Diablo-D3> ahh
[06:44] <infinity> s/zdm/xdm/
[06:45] <Diablo-D3> doesnt a linux system require an MTA?
[06:45] <lamont> Diablo-D3: the server install is ubuntu-base
[06:45] <lamont> Diablo-D3: no..  LSB does, but you can require that they install a package for conformance
[06:45] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[06:45] <infinity> *My* systems all require an MTA of some sort, but the average end-user system certainly doesn't.
[06:46] <lamont> there are better ways to get root mail to where the end-user will notice it... (see update notifier for example)
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> then again I use fetchmail and procmail ;)
[06:46] <infinity> How often does my mom mail my dad on the local machine?
[06:46] <lamont> infinity: yes
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> gimp-python: Depends: python (< 2.4) but 2.4.1-0ubuntu2 is to be installed
[06:46] <Diablo-D3> wtf
[06:46] <lamont> Diablo-D3: can't imagine it either... but really it's life without an MUA that you can't really imagine, esp if you're an enduser
[06:47] <lamont> Diablo-D3: if that's a pure ubuntu repository, then there's a little bug... hoary or breezy?
[06:47] <Diablo-D3> oh gar!
[06:47] <Diablo-D3> thats my fault
[06:47] <lamont> mix-n-match is _BAD_
[06:47] <lamont> and my gimp-python has python (<< 2.5), python (>= 2.4)
[06:47] <lamont> heh
[06:48] <lamont> apt_preferences(5) is your friend for crossgrading sid->ubuntu
[06:48] <Diablo-D3> crossgrading?
[06:48] <lamont> if you decide to take a debian system to ubuntu, after upstream-version-freeze, you can't really call it an upgrade, since you wind up down-reving some packages
[06:49] <lamont> neither is it a downgrade.
[06:49] <lamont> therefore, it's a crossgrade
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> ahh
[06:49] <lamont> and therein lies some understanding of why it's not an officially supported way of getting ubuntu on your machine...
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> I'm used to dealing with broken stuff
[06:49] <Diablo-D3> dealing with ->ubuntu is pretty easy
[06:50] <lamont> yeah - my crossgrade trick is to pin ubuntu at somewhere around 1600, and let apt have its way
[06:51] <Diablo-D3> yow 224 megs
[06:51] <lamont> for what?  sid->hoary?  sounds about right
[06:52] <lamont> (new kernel, X, gnome, for starters...)
[06:52] <infinity> (anything 1001 and over is high enough to force downgrades)
[06:52] <Diablo-D3> and I'm going to have to play the deboprhan game too probably
[06:52] <infinity> lamont : You just like to make sure apt got the point, I take it? :)
[06:52] <Diablo-D3> yeah, I dont even have gnome installed atm
[06:53] <lamont> last time I did it, I pinned it high, did the apt-get dist-upgrade, and then dumped the package list and compared it to the Packages file, to see what things I had installed that weren't from ubuntu-main... etc, etc.
[06:53] <lamont> infinity: yeah :-)
[06:53] <lamont> infinity: truthfully, couldn't remember off the cuff if it was {>,>=}{1000,1500}
[06:53] <lamont> but 1600 meets all of those options. :-)
[06:53] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[06:53] <infinity> Heh.
[06:53] <Diablo-D3> do any applications actually use mDNS?
[06:54] <Diablo-D3> I'm only asking because I didnt see it on the list
[06:54] <infinity> I really wish people would stop switching patch systems on a whim.
[06:54] <lamont> infinity: from what to what, I wonder?
[06:55] <infinity> In this case, simple-patchsys to dpatch, including moving a bunch of files around.
[06:55] <infinity> Which means a completely buggered merge attempt by MOM (whou THOUGHT she got it mostly right, that's the scary part)
[06:55] <infinity> s/whou/who/
[06:56] <infinity> The really great part of this diff is the 3.2 megs for a uuencoded binary MOM is trying to move back to where she thinks it should live. :)
[06:57] <Diablo-D3> infinity: you mean scm?
[06:58] <Diablo-D3> --- Ping reply from infinity : 63.11 second(s)
[07:01] <ogra> daniels, hmm.... reading up it looks like #ubuntu-crossgrade
[07:01] <Diablo-D3> hrm, I'm trying to find the policy on trying to become an ubuntu maintainer
[07:01] <daniels> Diablo-D3: it's on the wiki,.
[07:01] <Diablo-D3> is it still like trying to become a debian one?
[07:01] <ogra> Diablo-D3, see the MOTU pages on the wiki
[07:02] <lamont> Diablo-D3: easier and harder.
[07:02] <Diablo-D3> well, is the policy on pgp keys still retarded?
[07:02] <lamont> Diablo-D3: see the wiki pages
[07:03] <Diablo-D3> so wait a second =P
[07:03] <lamont> (frankly, can't remember)
[07:04] <Diablo-D3> ahah, masters of the universe
[07:06] <Diablo-D3> looks like a difficult process
[07:06] <lamont> Diablo-D3: yeah, but actually getting involved in making things happen is trivial.
[07:07] <Diablo-D3> thats what the debian project said
[07:07] <lamont> it's what I've witnessed here
[07:07] <Diablo-D3> well, hopefully you're right
[07:07] <lamont> Diablo-D3: ask ogra
[07:07] <Diablo-D3> I never bothered actually helping the debian project because they are so retarded about how stuff should work
[07:08] <daniels> Diablo-D3: please a) stop being a twat ('well, is the policy on pgp keys still retarded?'), and b) move this off-topic discussion out of #ubuntu-devel.
[07:08] <daniels> anti-debian rants are not on topic here.
[07:08] <Diablo-D3> lamont: so hopefully the ubuntu community is more friendly.
[07:09] <daniels> calling debian 'retarded' is not one way to win that friendship and respect.
[07:09] <lamont> Diablo-D3: I've found both communities to be quite friendly, but it's really an off-topic item
[07:10] <Diablo-D3> yeah, we really need an offtopic channel for #ubuntu-devel
[07:10] <daniels> #ubuntu-offtopic.
[07:12] <daniels> it's already there.
[07:20] <Kamion> lamont: log() is specified by C99
[07:20] <Kamion> erm, and POSIX?
[07:20] <Kamion> you can -fno-builtin-log or similar though
[07:21] <ogra> who sets it ? mdz ?
[07:21] <lamont> Kamion: nah, I'll just rename the variable
[07:22] <lamont> I bet 'errors' is defined in there somewhere too
[07:22] <fabbione> lamont: can you take a look at gtk+2.0 situation on the buildds?
[07:22] <fabbione> lamont: for some reasons sparc managed to build it...
[07:22] <fabbione> lamont: all the other arches are claiming a missing Build-Dep ?
[07:23] <Kamion> 'errors' is not in C99; I don't know what that's about
[07:24] <lamont> fabbione: you have a polluted chroot
[07:24] <lamont>   libtiff4-dev: Depends: libtiffxx0 (= 3.7.2-2) but it is not installable
[07:24] <lamont> libtiffxx0 is in universe, and hence libtiff4-dev is uninstallabkle
[07:24] <lamont> unless you have universe in sources.list, which you shouldn't when building main packages
[07:25] <lamont> or maybe you haven't successfully built libtiff4-dev yet...
[07:25] <fabbione> lamont: the chroot is cleaned daily...
[07:26] <fabbione> and i split main/universe. so it is probably the libtiff4
[07:26] <lamont> fabbione: I don't doubt you - was just rattling off the possibilities
[07:27] <Mithrandir> fabbione: the new kernel will have inotify?
[07:27] <lamont> ogra: not sure who the final authority is on priorities, but mdz would certainly know...
[07:27] <fabbione> tiff:
[07:27] <fabbione>   Package             : tiff
[07:27] <fabbione>   Version             : 3.7.2-2
[07:27] <fabbione>   State               : Installed
[07:27] <fabbione>   Installed-Version   : 3.7.2-2
[07:27] <fabbione> ARGH
[07:27] <fabbione> sorry for the flood
[07:27] <lamont> hehe
[07:27] <fabbione> Mithrandir: yes.
[07:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the new one is working
[07:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: any ETA? :)
[07:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir: as soon as we can upload...
[07:28] <lamont> fabbione: and does libtiff4-dev Depend: libtiffxx0?
[07:28] <lamont> and if so, where is libtiffxx0?
[07:28] <fabbione> lamont: checking...
[07:29] <fabbione> libtiffxx0 (= 3.7.2-2)
[07:29] <fabbione> Source: tiff
[07:29] <fabbione> ????
[07:30] <fabbione> lamont: for what i can see libtiffxx0 comes out of tiff
[07:30] <fabbione> so given that you build tiff, you have both...
[07:31] <lamont> fabbione: right.  but libtiffxx0 is in UNIVERSE, not MAIN.
[07:31] <lamont> and if you can install libtiff4-dev, then you have it in MAIN
[07:31] <fabbione> lamont: not for me...
[07:31] <fabbione> it took the package from the incoming cache
[07:32] <lamont> ==universe
[07:32] <fabbione> since sparc.u.c isn't updated regularly, i need to rely on a  local cache
[07:32] <fabbione> so that would explain the situation
[07:32] <lamont> yes
[07:32] <lamont> mind you, the correct fix is probably to promote libtiffxx0
[07:32] <fabbione> i think there is no other option
[07:33] <fabbione> otherwise 3/4 of main is stalled
[07:34] <lamont> fabbione: the alternative is to eliminate the dependency
[07:34] <lamont> which may or may not be a good idea, of course... :)
[07:34] <fabbione> lamont: well, but if they depend on eachother, there might be a reason :)
[07:34] <fabbione> yeah exactly
[07:34] <fabbione> i would say to promote it
[07:35] <fabbione> it's just a very simple lib
[07:35] <fabbione> nothing fancy in it
[07:35] <lamont> yeah - I haven't looked.
[07:36] <lamont> fabbione: and once ports.u.c is in place, sparc should update cleanly and regularly
[07:36] <fabbione> lamont: yes, i am aware of it
[07:36] <fabbione> but i can't do otherwise atm
[07:37] <fabbione> i used to have a cache of 2 hours, that was pretty safe
[07:37] <fabbione> build -> upload -> cache -> rsync -> kill cache
[07:37] <fabbione> so the chroot was exposed only for 2 hours on pks in transit to archive
[07:39] <lamont> Kamion: modutils_<IP_ADDRESS>-2ubuntu1 uploaded, just for yuou
[07:40] <fabbione> lamont: we need to hug elmo really hard at UDU to get ports up.. and shell out some money for beer ;)
[07:40] <lamont> wow.  1 more hour and ia64 might have a gcc-4.0 :)
[07:41] <lamont> fabbione: yes.  must be very nice to him at  UDU....
[07:41] <lamont> not sure about the beer angle, though... don't want him setting it up while he's intoxicated...
[07:41] <fabbione> lamont: ehhe i didn't even jump in his bed in London :)
[07:41] <lamont> fabbione: TMI
[07:42] <lamont> :-)
[07:44] <fabbione> ehe
[07:54] <fabbione> Kamion, mdz_: can we promote libtiffxx0 to main please?
[07:57] <Kamion> lamont: thanks, will look at that when I come to fix busybox-cvs - hopefully fairly soon
[08:05] <lamont> heh.. someone needs to get them more NAT IP's at LCA - or teach OPN about them
[08:06] <fabbione> night lamont
[08:25] <fabbione> jbailey: i think i found the bug in glibc about ipv4 being preferred over ipv6
[08:25] <fabbione> jbailey: i am going to do a test build pretty soon
[08:25] <jbailey> fabbione: Cool.
[08:26] <jbailey> Is it something caused by a local patch, or somethign in upstream?
[08:26] <fabbione> upstream
[08:26] <infinity> glibc doesn't have bugs, fabbione.  It's all in your head.
[08:26] <jbailey> 'kay. =(  MEans I'll have to figure out why it changed.
[08:26] <infinity> That's what jbailey keeps telling me.
[08:26] <mjg59> fabbione: your 2.6.12 seems to have dropped the patch to i810 drm
[08:26] <mjg59> i915 rather, sorry
[08:27] <fabbione> mjg59: i dropped everything that was named stolen-from-upstream*
[08:27] <fabbione> mjg59: for .12 they should find their way to upstream
[08:28] <mjg59> fabbione: hm. The one I sent you didn't come from upstream.
[08:29] <mjg59> It was a single line patch that changed the version number in the driver
[08:29] <fabbione> mjg59: let me check...
[08:31] <fabbione> mjg59: right.. i am readding it
[08:31] <fabbione> mjg59: dunno why i thought it was coming from upstream
[08:32] <mjg59> No problem
[08:33] <fabbione> Nodes: 3
[08:33] <fabbione> Expected_votes: 3
[08:33] <fabbione> Total_votes: 3
[08:33] <fabbione> YAY
[08:33] <fabbione> 3 nodes cluster!
[08:37] <fabbione> mjg59: done...
[09:16] <mdz_> fabbione: does it have any dependencies which are not in main?
[09:18] <mdz_> doesn't seem to
[09:18] <mdz_> fabbione: done
[09:20] <fabbione> mdz_: thanks
[09:27] <elmo> whoever's trying to use tilde's in version, stop it
[09:27] <Mithrandir> I thought they were supported now?
[09:27] <Diablo-D3> elmo: eww
[09:27] <Mithrandir> (yes, I'm trying to)
[09:27] <Diablo-D3> why would anyone want a tilde in a version?
[09:28] <Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: because it means less-than
[09:28] <elmo> Mithrandir: no, they aren't
[09:28] <Diablo-D3> erm, ~ means "roughly" in mathspeek.
[09:28] <Diablo-D3> < is less than.
[09:28] <Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: read the dpkg source code.
[09:29] <Diablo-D3> ... please tell me dpkg didnt rewrite the 2000 year old language of math
[09:29] <d3vic3> O.o
[09:30] <Mithrandir> Diablo-D3: math doesn't have a concept of sorting.
[09:31] <Mithrandir> elmo: when will they be?
[09:31] <infinity> elmo : Are we still lacking support in some tools, or is it just a question of maintinainig the woody upgrade path for a while longer?
[09:31] <Diablo-D3> Mithrandir: meh =/
[09:33] <mdz_> Kamion: there are more debbugs bugs breaking debzilla
[09:33] <Kamion> elmo: please sync parted 1.6.21-1 from unstable; OK to overwrite 1.6.20-0.exp.2ubuntu2
[09:34] <Kamion> mdz_: I mentioned the problem to Don Armstrong, who did most of that patch; in the meantime, please mail me bug numbers and I'll fix them
[09:34] <elmo> Mithrandir: when you figure out how sucky a duck is as a logo
[09:34] <elmo> infinity: katie needs fixed
[09:34] <elmo> Kamion: done
[09:35] <Kamion> ta
[09:37] <thom> infinity: see the three newly released firefox vulns? :/
[09:37] <Mithrandir> elmo: blah. :P
[09:39] <infinity> thom : New, as in post-1.0.3?
[09:39] <thom> as in fixed in 1.0.3
[09:39] <thom> and just unembargoed
[09:40] <infinity> Yeah, I'll do all the 1.0.3 stuff later.
[09:40] <thom> infinity: 9926 through 9928
[09:40] <infinity> One pre-1.0.3 upload, one post-1.0.3.. Unless they're simple.
[09:40] <thom> i'm just gonna do hoary
[09:40] <infinity> Go ahead and do hoary, please. :)
[09:41] <infinity> I've been busy with, well, everything, so I'd rather get some sort of packages uploaded than nothing at all.
[09:41] <infinity> And I intend to force some people at UDU to test the packages before we do an advisory, since they stand a high chance of breaking.
[09:42] <thom> nods
[09:59] <jsgotangco> waa
[10:01] <jsgotangco> ogra, hi
[10:01] <ogra> jsgotangco, hey
[10:02] <infinity> daniels : Nice reaction time.
[10:03] <jsgotangco> im so tired already i gotta take a day off before i fly off
[10:03] <daniels> my battery was low enough that it refused to resume, given that I'd likely run out of power in a few seconds
[10:29] <jsgotangco> ok guys bye bye i might not be online by tommorow see you in UDU
[11:10] <zyga> hello
[11:22] <astharot> giorno
[12:37] <pitti> Hellas!
[12:38] <ogra> prost
[12:39] <fabbione> hey
[12:39] <d3vic3> fabbione,
[12:41] <d3vic3> fabbione: aren't u suppose to be flying already ?
[12:41] <fabbione> no
[12:41] <fabbione> i will leave saturday morning
[12:42] <d3vic3> oh ok
[12:42] <tseng> pitti: yep i only know selinux basics, would be happier with ajmitch running
[12:42] <pitti> tseng: Hi! ajmitch already agreed to do this more or less :)
[12:42] <tseng> great :)
[12:42] <fabbione> humpf 2.6.12rc3 is out
[12:43] <pitti> hui
[12:43] <fabbione> and gcc-4.0.0 is out
[12:43] <fabbione> where is doko when we need him?=
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: he just left to open a bottle of Whiskey
[12:44] <fabbione> pitti: and upload after or during the bottle :)
[12:44] <pitti> fabbione: I'm afraid we shouldn't allow him to upload a new gcc after that
[12:44] <fabbione> nah
[12:44] <pitti> gggcccc-44.0
[12:44] <d3vic3> heh
[12:45] <fabbione> ahha
[12:45] <pitti> fabbione: btw, boring week, no new kernel dildos
[12:45] <pitti> fabbione: you already must felt underloved by now
[12:46] <fabbione> pitti: better.. i am busy enough already
[12:50] <fabbione> doko put down the bottle of whisky
[12:50] <fabbione> gcc-4.0.0 is out
[12:51] <fabbione> ETA for the upload? :P
[12:51] <pitti> fabbione: the upload alone will take ~ 3 days from here
[12:51] <doko> fabbione: bake your rc3 kernel first ;-P
[12:51] <pitti> and watch the fight
[12:52] <ogra> fabbione, hee hasch noh boddl ahnymohr
[12:53] <fabbione> doko: dude.. rc3 is already building :)
[12:53] <fabbione> pitti: no no.. gcc-3.3 for the kernel...
[12:53] <ogra> fabbione, fix the kernel ;)
[12:53] <pitti> fabbione: but - it will _work_ with gcc 3.3 - where's the fun?
[12:54] <fabbione> ogra: shut up dude :)
[12:54] <fabbione> pitti: there is no fun atm...
[12:54] <ogra> :)
[12:54] <fabbione> the fun will come after we get .12 out
[12:54] <fabbione> than we will switch compiler
[01:07] <tseng> mmmm, ftbfs
[01:12] <fabbione> uhuhu 12rc3 is already building :)
[01:13] <fabbione> doko: where is gcc? :P
[01:14] <d3vic3> doko: MOVE AWAY FROM THE WHISKY BOTTLE ! :P
[01:22] <Treenaks> fabbione: I had a request from a Dutch user for a preview of the .12 kernel -- his ICH6 Intel on-board sound stuff didn't work in .10
[01:23] <fabbione> Treenaks: no preview.. sorry. there are still a few problems that need to be solved before i can push .21 in the archive
[01:24] <Treenaks> fabbione: ok
[01:24] <fabbione> and i really won't be able to help him if the system will mess up
[01:24] <fabbione> also.. .12 will be for breezy
[01:25] <fabbione> it needs already too much hacking to go in hoary
[01:26] <Treenaks> fabbione: yes of course
[01:27] <Treenaks> fabbione: I asked him to upgrade already, and he installed the meta-packages.. so it should be OK once you declare it final
[01:27] <fabbione> if he is on breezy yes
[01:28] <fabbione> it will be final when i will push the big red button on my desk with written "Deploy luser automatic system destroier"
[01:28] <Treenaks> cool, where do I get those?
[01:29] <fabbione> Treenaks: the same day you will get baz commit rights on kernel/libc6/gcc/xorg
[01:29] <fabbione> or grub
[01:29] <Treenaks> cool
[02:04] <jbailey> lamont: You around?
[02:05] <fabbione> hey jbailey
[02:06] <jbailey> Heya Fabio!
[02:59] <lamont> jbailey: morning
[03:36] <adamh> php4 doesn't seem to be compiled with the zip extension, and I can't find any packages that provide it. Is my only option to compile from source?
[04:20] <leonel> hello !  firefox1.0.3  was released  is there any patch for hoary's firefox 1.0.2 to fix the bugs 1.0.3 fixed ?
[04:26] <ups> leonel, i'm not a dev, but i think most of the patches are already in ubuntu's firefox
[05:56] <trygvebw> Would it be an idea to forward "su" to "sudo -i"?
[05:59] <uniq> trygvebw: feel free to make your own alias. :)
[05:59] <trygvebw> uniq: Of course :) but i was thinking that it maybe was an idea to include one as standard in Ubuntu?
[05:59] <Burgundavia> no
[05:59] <Burgundavia> too confusing
[06:00] <uniq> agreed.
[06:00] <Burgundavia> as that is not expected behaviour
[06:00] <Burgundavia> those that know about su need to use it
[06:00] <Burgundavia> not be told about sudo
[06:00] <uniq> would be like making an alias of 'vi' to nano.. or something.
[06:00] <Burgundavia> anyway, the great unwashed used gksudo or kdesu
[06:00] <Burgundavia> and should never see the command line
[06:01] <trygvebw> Well, it's more friendly to newbies, and it *would* do the same thing as "su" without parameters...
[06:01] <Burgundavia> trygvebw, did you read what I just said?
[06:01] <trygvebw> Burgundavia, yes i did
[06:01] <uniq> messing with coreutils is bad.
[06:01] <Burgundavia> trygvebw, then you will know why it is bad
[06:02] <trygvebw> Well... Who need the "su" tool in the standard configuration?
[06:02] <uniq> need/want/expect it to be there..
[06:02] <uniq> I expect it to be there..
[06:02] <uniq> I don't expect su to start sudo in any way.
[06:02] <Burgundavia> those that know about su need to use it, not be told about sudo
[06:02] <trygvebw> Well, "sudo -i" will do exactly (nearly) the same thing as "sudo -i"
[06:03] <trygvebw> Without telling anybody that it *is* "sudo"
[06:03] <uniq> still a bad idea. it's like makiing 'vi' a alias to nano, you can still edit your files..
[06:04] <uniq> .. but i hate nano :)
[06:04] <trygvebw> There is a big difference, "vi" works, but "su" doesn't.
[06:05] <uniq> su works if you enable the root account.
[06:06] <trygvebw> Usually people who know show to activate root also knows how to remove the alias.
[06:07] <uniq> the essential here is as burgundavia said "expected behaviour"..
[06:08] <trygvebw> And like i said, the behavior of "sudo -i" and "su" is exactly the same...
[06:08] <Burgundavia> trygvebw, uh, no
[06:08] <uniq> without arguments.. yes.
[06:08] <trygvebw> yes
[06:08] <uniq> or well.
[06:08] <uniq> no.
[06:08] <uniq> nearly..
[06:08] <uniq> not enought.
[06:08] <trygvebw> Most people who use arguments knows how to remove the alias.
[06:08] <uniq> if they know it's there..
[06:08] <Burgundavia> if you type in su
[06:09] <Burgundavia> you get a password prompt
[06:09] <Burgundavia> I just did
[06:09] <trygvebw> You also do with "sudo -i
[06:09] <trygvebw> "
[06:09] <Burgundavia> but the difference is what password they are looking for
[06:09] <Burgundavia> su is looking for roots
[06:09] <uniq> trygvebw: try 'sudo -i -s /bin/zsh'
[06:09] <Burgundavia> sudo -i is looking for mine
[06:10] <trygvebw> uniq: Doesn't work
[06:10] <uniq> I know.
[06:10] <trygvebw> Burgundavia, well, we could print a warning...
[06:10] <uniq> su -s /bin/zsh does.
[06:10] <trygvebw> uniq: <trygvebw> Most people who use arguments knows how to remove the alias.
[06:10] <trygvebw> Burgundavia, well, we could print a warning...
[06:11] <Burgundavia> trygvebw, why not just do what is normal"?
[06:11] <uniq> :)
[06:11] <Burgundavia> the only people who need su, actually want su
[06:11] <trygvebw> Because "su" -> "sudo -i" is more newbie friendly...
[06:12] <uniq> no, it's just confusing.
[06:12] <Burgundavia> trygvebw, please understand, the great unwashed is never going to use su
[06:12] <trygvebw> Burgundavia, well, people are instructed (irc, forums) to do special command line things including "su". They type "su", and can't get further.
[06:13] <Burgundavia> trygvebw, they shouldn
[06:13] <Burgundavia> t
[06:13] <Burgundavia> be
[06:13] <trygvebw> Why?
[06:13] <Burgundavia> Ubuntu uses sudo
[06:13] <Burgundavia> people should follow the defaults
[06:13] <Burgundavia> unless they really know better
[06:13] <trygvebw> What if users of other distros instruct them?
[06:13] <uniq> .. and then they know how to enable the root account..
[06:13] <trygvebw> ^
[06:14] <Burgundavia> that is not really an issue we can deal with, and your "fix" won't help
[06:14] <trygvebw> Well...
[06:14] <trygvebw> Ok :)
[06:21] <zyga> hello
[06:22] <uniq> hi.
[06:32] <zyga> bluefoxicy: ping
[06:34] <bluefoxicy> hi
[06:35] <bluefoxicy> zyga: http://rafb.net/paste/results/lcaHUV32.html
[06:36] <zyga> bluefoxicy: looking :-)
[06:37] <zyga> BTW: what's the naming cheme?
[06:37] <bluefoxicy> ?
[06:37] <zyga> nevermind
[06:38] <zyga> !
[06:38] <zyga> how did you resolve malloc?
[06:38] <zyga> (the real malloc)
[06:38] <zyga> I had constant problems with real programs
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> uh
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> I didn't find glibc's malloc
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> I just have my own implementation.
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> hence the infinite loop and negative size allocations.
[06:38] <zyga> so real_malloc is your custom right?
[06:38] <bluefoxicy> yeah
[06:39] <zyga> ok
[06:39] <zyga> I had strange results yesterday
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> once_malloc() has initializers
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> and a pthread_once() call which is expensive as hell
[06:39] <zyga> I could not repeat the behaviour of your first test
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> so it switches a pointer to real_malloc()
[06:39] <bluefoxicy> so the first (few?) malloc() calls may be once_malloc(), the following become real_malloc()
[06:39] <zyga> the one where one allocation was holding memory back
[06:39] <zyga> (now it always holds the memory back, even after it's released)
[06:40] <zyga> but I've updated to breezy so that could be relevant
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> o.O
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> now it holds memory even after dropping the heap holder in msztest?
[06:40] <zyga> yes
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> what the ass?
[06:40] <zyga> I'm currently ignoring thread safty
[06:40] <bluefoxicy> it should drop from like 100 megs to 2 megs
[06:40] <zyga> :>
[06:40] <zyga> it does after the process dies
[06:40] <zyga> I'm going to test it more excessively today
[06:41] <zyga> I hope malloc still suxx ;]
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> haha
[06:41] <zyga> otherwise we d'be out of hobby :>
[06:41] <bluefoxicy> I may be out of a job soon
[06:41] <zyga> s/we d'/we'd /
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> I fix computers, but my performance is rated by how I sell services
[06:42] <zyga> what do you sell?
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> so like, the sales guys sell computers and are supposed to give us the customers so we sell them services
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> except
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> the sales guys bring me customers that want a computer and 10 billion services
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> so I do the services
[06:42] <Amaranth> You work at Besy Buy?
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> but I dont sell them.
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  yes
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> it's weird though.
[06:42] <bluefoxicy> We have to be "Bringing in money" but we're NOT commissioned.
[06:43] <zyga> bbl
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> you don't make more because you sell more; but you lose your job if you don't make the company any money
[06:43] <Amaranth> You're one of those "GeekSquad" guys?
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> but people are like "OMFG CHECK IT I SOLDS $10GAZILION"
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  yep
[06:43] <Amaranth> Good to know some of them actaully have a clue...
[06:43] <bluefoxicy> Amaranth:  actualyl I have like 10000 new services we could supply but don't
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> most involving open source software because you don't need a commercial license or NDA to use it.
[06:44] <bluefoxicy> I mean we could put a fucking customized firefox on CD and sell it for $20
[06:44] <Amaranth> It seems like the ones at the Best Buy here know how to replace HDs, replace RAM, and reinstall Windows.
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> that's like, $500 worth of work
[06:49] <zyga> bluefoxicy: (like could you run firefox with it)
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> a ton of software packages
[06:49] <Burgundavia> you installed an OS, not just windows
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  it dies running ls
[06:49] <zyga> bluefoxicy: mine too
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  it gets 3 heaps in and dies.
[06:49] <zyga> bluefoxicy: did you check what malloc actually does?
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> (my heaps hold 4M of allocs)
[06:49] <Amaranth> Burgundavia: No, you installed a distro. :)
[06:49] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  no :)
[06:50] <zyga> bluefoxicy: apart from malloc and friends there's valloc and a couple of other quirky things
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  Well, I should talk to my district manager about it.
[06:50] <zyga> bluefoxicy: also, do you run any logging stuff?
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> Linux is infinite stock because it's free, downloadable, burnable
[06:50] <zyga> bluefoxicy: any *printf
[06:50] <Amaranth> hey, HP is going to use a customized version of Ubuntu for their linux machines
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> and services are infinite stock because they're coming from your techs
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  that output is all from pritnf
[06:50] <Burgundavia> convinced my father to let me let his research students have Ubuntu on his old laptop
[06:50] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  but I got in because my aunt knows derek
[06:51] <Burgundavia> ah
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> the district manager
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> I got the INTERVIEW
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> but I had to actually survive the interview to get the job
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> I don't do the thing where people hand me shit for free.
[06:51] <zyga> bluefoxicy: printf suxx, calls malloc
[06:51] <zyga> bluefoxicy: almost anything calls malloc
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  wtf :o
[06:51] <Burgundavia> bluefoxicy, how old are you
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  19
[06:51] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I've done my own _msgf that's simple enough and doesn't call anything besides write
[06:51] <Burgundavia> ah
[06:51] <bluefoxicy> Burgundavia:  I'm still a businessman
[06:52] <zyga> bluefoxicy: really?
[06:52] <zyga> :>
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  really
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  not interested in girls though so save yourself the trouble of asking me out ;P
[06:52] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I'm not a girl :P
[06:52] <zyga> bluefoxicy: get real ;]
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> :O
[06:52] <zyga> hehe
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> but your name ends with an 'a' and like everyone online is spanish
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> well
[06:52] <ningo> wohoho a/s/l time  in #ubuntu-devel  ?
[06:52] <bluefoxicy> more of them are canadian than spanish
[06:52] <zyga> bluefoxicy: that's my problem
[06:53] <zyga> bluefoxicy: /whois zyga
[06:53] <zyga> (that doesn't sound like female, does it)
[06:53] <Amaranth> Most people think I'm female.
[06:53] <zyga> ningo: learn a new thing every day I guess ;-)
[06:53] <bluefoxicy> ah
[06:54] <zyga> bluefoxicy: anyway
[06:54] <zyga> bluefoxicy: could you try and run ls after #if 0ing all your printfs out/
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  I'll just disable debug
[06:56] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  but it'll still die.
[06:57] <zyga> bluefoxicy: did you run it via gdb?
[06:57] <bluefoxicy> no
[06:57] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I can actually run ls now
[06:57] <bluefoxicy> yeah it infinite loops.
[06:57] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  really?
[06:57] <zyga> bluefoxicy: but my algorithm is so trivial it fails on real programs
[06:57] <zyga> bluefoxicy: in a few hours it should be usable enough to run firefox I hope
[06:58] <spo0nman> there is a usability bug in xchat ctrl - w closes a window but its too damn close to ctrl q which closes the application witout asking a question like "Do you want to close all tabs?" who to complain for a fix?
[06:58] <zyga> bluefoxicy: we could move to #malloc just to avoid all the extra noise
[06:58] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  *shrug* heh
[07:16] <leonel> hello !  firefox1.0.3  was released  is there any patch for hoary's firefox 1.0.2 to fix the bugs 1.0.3 fixed ?
[07:16] <Amaranth> not yet
[07:17] <zyga> BTW: patch, cant we just use vanilla firefox code?
[07:17] <Amaranth> Not in hoary.
[07:17] <Burgundavia> if you look at the change logs for ubuntu 1.0.2, you see taht we already had most of the security patches in
[07:17] <zyga> good to know
[07:17] <zyga> perhaps you should call it firefox-<IP_ADDRESS> then
[07:19] <Burgundavia> this happens each release
[07:19] <Burgundavia> the devs should just call it 1.0.3 to make the plebs happy
[07:19] <zyga> Burgundavia: if the'd call it 1.0.4 that would make ubuntu popular ;]
[07:19] <Burgundavia> lol
[07:19] <zyga> (har har har)
[07:20] <Burgundavia> I am quite serious though
[07:20] <zyga> I know
[07:20] <Burgundavia> they should bump the version number
[07:21] <zyga> bluefoxicy: what is your CPU?
[07:23] <leonel> so it's safe  hoary's firefox 1.0.2  as safe as  mozilla-firefox 1.0.3
[07:23] <zyga> leonel: version number voodoo is still important
[07:24] <zyga> (debian stable has 0.2 because it's stable, har har ... wrong way to go)
[07:24] <leonel> zyga,   yes or no would do
[07:24] <zyga> leonel: your statement was a question? I'm confused
[07:24] <leonel> so it's safe  hoary's firefox 1.0.2  as safe as  mozilla-firefox 1.0.3 ?
[07:24] <zyga> ah
[07:24] <zyga> leonel: in that case, from what I heard - yes
[07:25] <zyga> leonel: but you might want to ask for details
[07:27] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  amd64
[07:27] <leonel> yes is enough
[07:27] <leonel> thanks zyga
[07:27] <zyga> bluefoxicy: those pointers looked suspiciously long ;)
[07:28] <zyga> bluefoxicy: try using %p for pointers
[07:33] <bluefoxicy> 1 + 4 + 4 = 12
[07:33] <bluefoxicy> according to my program.
[07:34] <zyga> bluefoxicy: that is some truly fancy complex number math ;]
[07:34] <zyga> bluefoxicy: could you show a sample of your source code?
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  my struct minialloc is {char; size_t; miniheap*;}
[07:34] <zyga> bluefoxicy: is that a sizeof calculation?
[07:34] <zyga> hehe
[07:34] <zyga> bluefoxicy: read about alignment
[07:34] <zyga> :>
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> which is 1 (sizeof(char)), 4 (sizeof(size_t)), and 4 (pointer)
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> it's a structure
[07:34] <bluefoxicy> it's not allowed to bea ligned!
[07:35] <zyga> ...?
[07:35] <bluefoxicy> it's supposed to be structural :P
[07:35] <zyga> you got it wrong :P
[07:35] <zyga> repack that to size_t, void *, char
[07:35] <zyga> but read about alignment and structure padding
[07:36] <zyga> it works not the way you think it does apparently
[07:36] <bluefoxicy> heh
[07:36] <bluefoxicy>  what the hell
[07:37] <bluefoxicy> extra strength tylenol took 5 minutes to kill my headache
[07:37] <Burgundavia> zyga, just posted to u-devel about it
[07:38] <zyga> Burgundavia: about firefox versioning?
[07:38] <Burgundavia> zyga, oui
[07:38] <zyga> Burgundavia: tres bien!
[07:38] <Burgundavia> basically saying bump the version numbers so we don't look bad
[07:39] <zyga> Burgundavia: ah, I thoght I convinced you to bump them to 1.0.4 ;-)
[07:39] <zyga> for a split second ;]
[07:39] <Burgundavia> IANAD
[07:40] <zyga> Burgundavia: well written
[07:40] <Burgundavia> thank you
[07:41] <Burgundavia> took about 4 drafts
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> how am I supposed to debug an allocator when my brain is feeling like it's getting fucked by a horse on and off
[07:48] <bluefoxicy> this officially sucks.
[07:51] <zyga> bluefoxicy: you may want to create #malloc-fucks-a-ho.... errr
[07:51] <zyga> bluefoxicy: you may want to rest for a moment
[07:51] <zyga> bluefoxicy: malloc is not going anywhere yet
[07:52] <zyga> (this is hardly ubuntu-devel topic)
[08:05] <bluefoxicy> does gdb work at all
[08:07] <zyga> bluefoxicy: #malloc
[08:07] <Amaranth> sorry, was testing something
[08:15] <jp> when will fixed libgnome-cil at breezy? since yesterday it's broken.
[08:19] <cartman> jp: report a bug
[08:28] <jp> cartman sorry but that sucks =)
[08:28] <cartman> jp: well thats how it supposed to work
[08:29] <jp> well by, i'll use hoary, for more comodity
[08:29] <Amaranth> jp: sorry but you don't pay us :)
[08:29] <cartman> reminds me that I need to report a console-data bug
[08:29] <jp> Amaranth yep
[08:29] <jp> I know. That's is the bad part of open source
[08:29] <jp> well bye guys
[08:29] <cartman> it works :)
[08:29] <Amaranth> jp: That all your little issues aren't fixed on your command?
[08:29] <jp> btw thanks.
[08:30] <jp> Amaranth !
[08:30] <Amaranth> :)
[08:30] <jp> well
[08:31] <jp> I only said that it sucks, 'cause tseng said me today it'll be ok, butit's broken, and it's a so used tool.
[08:31] <jp> that's.
[08:31] <jnc> who you callin' a used tool there buddy
[08:32] <jp> mmm
[08:32] <Amaranth> hehe
[08:32] <jp> gtk-sharp
[08:32] <jp> don't you know it?
[08:32] <jp>
[08:32] <jnc> my butits are my own business
[08:32] <Amaranth> well, you're using a devel version of a distro you get for free, things don't always work and all you can do is file a bug report so people know something is wrong
[08:32] <jp> ok
[08:33] <Amaranth> oh, and pray for a fix, if you want :)
[08:33] <jnc> well said Amaranth
[08:33] <leonel> Any plans to make an Ubuntu Distro as Kubuntu  But only with Server Packages ?
[08:33] <jp> Amaranth that's I was waiting for today =)
[08:33] <jp> jeje
[08:33] <jp> well i'll use hoary, and problem solved.
[08:33] <jp> thanks btw
[08:34] <Mithrandir> jp: you're free to purchase a support contract from Canonical and we'll see what we can do to solve your problems
[08:34] <jnc> leonel: kind of defeats the point of Kubuntu does it not?
[08:34] <Mithrandir> (or from some other company offering support contracts, obviously.)
[08:34] <leonel> jnc, ubuntu  gnome centric   kubuntu  kde centric  i mean  a Subuntu ?   Server Centric
[08:34] <jp> Mithrandir I'm not saying that, I'm only asking about a problem that bust be solved for today.
[08:34] <Mithrandir> leonel: just boot the system with "server" when installing.
[08:35] <jp> must*
[08:35] <leonel> jnc,  no X no gnome no kde just  server packages
[08:35] <jnc> leonel: there's a server option on Ubuntu Hoary install
[08:35] <zyga> Amaranth: jc can do far more
[08:35] <Mithrandir> jp: "must be solved" sounds a lot like "I need a support contract" to me. :)
[08:35] <zyga> Amaranth: he can fix it him/her self and provide a patch
[08:35] <leonel> Mithrandir, I know but there's many packages for server on universan not suitable for producction
[08:35] <Mithrandir> jp: (or "I'll solve this myself")
[08:35] <jnc> leonel: really though, i personally run a straight debian install when i'm doing server stuffs
[08:35] <jp> mmm
[08:35] <zyga> Amaranth: that will be greeted far better then 'it's borken ... arghh'
[08:36] <Mithrandir> leonel: what has universe to do with this?
[08:36] <leonel> jnc, I have debian but woody is so old that I need new packages   and sarge has no security support yet
[08:36] <Amaranth> universe it totally unsupported
[08:36] <Amaranth> it's a "take it or leave it, good luck" kind of thing there
[08:36] <jp> Mithrandir it's not. I'm only trying to say that it's a bug with libgnome-cil :@
[08:36] <leonel> Mithrandir, universe is not supported so not suitable for producction
[08:36] <jnc> leonel: watch bug traq and run sarge
[08:36] <jp> leonel  it's true.
[08:37] <Mithrandir> leonel: I've been a ubuntu developer since last August, I know what universe means. :)
[08:37] <jp> libgnome-cil is at universe Mithrandir
[08:37] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, lol
[08:37] <jp> hahahaha
[08:37] <leonel> jnc, not an  option
[08:37] <Mithrandir> jp: there are two discussions here, one is the server one, one is the libgnome-cil problem you're having.
[08:37] <jnc> leonel: what exactly do you need this for anyways
[08:38] <jp> Mithrandir ok, libgnome-ci don't have official support, tseng know things about that package.
[08:38] <jp> Mithrandir ok, libgnome-ci don't have official support, tseng knows things about that package.
[08:38] <Mithrandir> leonel: there's a lot of server packages in main.
[08:38] <leonel> jnc,  more server packages that could go instead  X Gnome / Kde
[08:38] <jnc> leonel: is this for your job or for fun?
[08:38] <leonel> jnc, job
[08:38] <Mithrandir> jp: yeah, but he might very well be on a plane to .au now, as he's coming for UDU
[08:39] <jnc> leonel: so uh... get a redhat support contract
[08:39] <jnc> or one from canocial
[08:39] <jnc> (spelling leaves something to be desired)
[08:39] <leonel> jnc, jejeje  Centos works fine  but I'd like  Ubuntu
[08:39] <Mithrandir> leonel: which server packages are you missing?
[08:39] <jp> Mithrandir mmm so you're saying I have to pay canonical support for it? for breezy? LOL
[08:40] <jnc> I'd like 50 hours in a day and grass that grows to a perfect height always green
[08:40] <jnc> we're getting there through the marvel of science and hard work
[08:40] <leonel> Mithrandir, libdbd-pg-perl
[08:40] <jnc> it's going to take a while and some money
[08:40] <leonel> among others
[08:40] <jp> well there's no solution for libgnome-cil :(
[08:41] <Mithrandir> jp: no, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that if you want to have any kind of guarantees (or something like that) for timely fixes, you should purchase a support contract.  Apart from that, it'll all be best-effort
[08:41] <Mithrandir> leonel: propose it for the supportedseed for breezy, then
[08:41] <zyga> jp: it's not that anyone WANTS it broken ;)
[08:41] <jp> haha
[08:41] <jp> :)
[08:41] <jnc> if you got time to complain, you have time to fix the darn thing
[08:41] <leonel> Mithrandir, thanks let me make  my list :)
[08:42] <Mithrandir> jp: but then , breezy is pretty shaky right now, so you basically shouldn't be running it on non-development systems.  But you've already discovered that. :)
[08:43] <jnc> Hoary isn't even feature complete on all archs
[08:43] <jp> Mithrandir yep, I'm using it 'cause it has gnome 2.10.1, i'm not a developer...
[08:43] <jp> I'm gonna use hoary =)
[08:44] <jp> bye
[08:44] <jnc> gnome 2.4.x is perfectly usable
[08:44] <Mithrandir> jp, see you around
[08:44] <jp> bye Mithrandir
[08:44] <jnc> hm.
[08:45] <jnc> is Ubuntu even designed with server applications in mind?
[08:45] <Amaranth> that's funny, libgnome-cil is working fine here
[08:45] <Amaranth> what's wrong with it for you?
[08:45] <jnc> which arch
[08:46] <Amaranth> x86
[08:46] <jnc> i.e maybe it works on foo but not bar
[08:46] <Mithrandir> jnc: it would be slightly more useful if you said what was missing or broken rather than just complaining
[08:47] <jnc> Mithrandir: oh yeah i was here before release filing bugs etc.
[08:47] <jnc> i don't have the # handy but you can search for "openoffice won't print amd64" something like that i believe
[08:48] <jnc> the title was originally different for the bug report
[08:48] <Mithrandir> yeah, I know about that one.
[08:48] <Mithrandir> I just didn't get around to fixing it.
[08:48] <jnc> I would submit a fix, it's a simple matter that I have no clue for what OpenOffice does.  I usually pick smaller pieces of cake to consume
[08:49] <Mithrandir> I know what the fix is, it's just that OOo is big and scary and makes me want to cry. ;)
[08:51] <jnc> it used to work when i first installed Hoary preview, then after some update between then and now it ceased to function
[08:51] <jnc> exactly, sir
[08:51] <jnc> is there an LD_PRELOAD= workaround or something I could do? would be nice as i'm attempting to use that hardware for an office computer
[08:52] <Mithrandir> I can try to provide a backported fix when I get back home, but there's no way I'm going to do that with a second latency to my home systems. :)
[08:53] <jnc> backported... from breezy?
[08:53] <jnc> if it's fixed in breezy, i mean shoot at least i can update that bug
[08:53] <Mithrandir> no, it's not fixed yet
[08:54] <Mithrandir> but I can provide hoary packages once I've fixed it in breezy
[08:54] <jnc> oh okay.   it would be much appreciated
[08:54] <jnc> FYI you'll see me complain on occasion I do submit fixes too
[08:55] <jnc> electric sheep screensaver configuration is one
[08:55] <jnc> it looks spectacular on a flatscreen lcd
[08:55] <Mithrandir> jnc: just a bit tired after I slept shitty this night.
[08:56] <Mithrandir> I should really try to get a few hours more
[08:56] <jnc> same here
[08:56] <jnc> isn't it just awful when ya don't sleep 6+ hours at least?
[08:56] <Mithrandir> the problem right now is I'm at LCA which means my timezone is eight hours off, I'm not home, I miss my fiancee and am developing conference cough-sickness.
[08:57] <Mithrandir> but it's fun, so I'm not complaining.
[08:57] <Mithrandir> it's just that I get a bit grumpy
[08:57] <jnc> understood
[09:01] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, have you read my post to u-devel regarding ff numbering
[09:02] <Mithrandir> not really, but it's thom and not me who maintains ff
[09:02] <Burgundavia> is thom about?
[09:02] <Mithrandir> probably not atm; it's 05:02 in the morning here
[09:02] <Mithrandir> in four hours or so, he should be
[09:03] <Mithrandir> I'm off for a bit more sleep
[09:03] <Burgundavia> ah
[09:03] <Burgundavia> ok
[09:03] <Burgundavia> timezones mess me up
[09:55] <fgx> hi devs. do you think hoary's php version wil be updated after the getimagesize() bug discovered today?
[10:11] <zyga> fgx: devs are away ATM
[10:12] <\sh> devs are all down under
[10:12] <\sh> down, under water, or in australia *eg*
[10:14] <fgx> zyga, ok, thx
[11:20] <bluefoxicy> i'm going to class.  GPS doesn't work, but I don't use IDEs anyway.
[11:20] <zyga> bluefoxicy: GPS and IDE have what in common?
[11:21] <bluefoxicy> zyga:  uhhhhhhhh. . .
[11:21] <bluefoxicy> http://libre.adacore.com/gps/
[11:21] <zyga> global positioning system ;]
[11:22] <bluefoxicy> i'm installing it on xp anyway
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> I have XP on my laptop and  only boot into it to install and configure open source software on windows
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> so that when peoeple talk to me about linux and open source software
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> I can be like
[11:23] <bluefoxicy> *whips out big dcache of free software on windows*
[11:54] <zyga> bluefoxicy: I cannot stand working on windows
[11:54] <zyga> bluefoxicy: when 80% of my time is spent in the shell and 20% in the browser windows is very unplesant


[11:39] <Karan> hi frd
[11:39] <Karan> i want to order free ubuntu DVD
[12:10] <Kilos> you can download the iso from http://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop Karan


[00:37] <MikeDK> fortår dig godt kristian-aalborg men forstår osse soren's irritation for jeg har nemlig osse tænkt over det at amazon ikke sælger digitalt indhold til danske brugere igennem den måde det blir implementeret på
[00:38] <kristian-aalborg> det er mest det, at man fedter den slags ind i systemet
[09:39] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:39] <czajkowski> I'm going to be going to UDS
[09:39] <czajkowski> and wondering if people could recommend some places to eat in copenhagen?
[09:40] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-R  has been created to add any local information
[19:04] <jarlen> czajkowski: seems like the wiki login is bugged. Are you looking for anything in particular? Kitchen, size, price range?
[19:05] <jarlen> ah, there it goes
[19:07] <czajkowski> jarlen: places to eat restaurants?
[19:07] <czajkowski> how to get around? public transport?
[19:10] <jarlen> I'll add some notes about public transport
[19:15] <czajkowski> jarlen: thanks
[19:25] <jarlen> czajkowski: I believe the UDS is at the 'Bella centre', can you confirm? I can't find the location on the wiki page.
[19:31] <czajkowski> jarlen: http://uds.ubuntu.com/event/
[19:31] <czajkowski> yup it is
[19:31] <jarlen> ok, cool, that's nice for public transport :-)
[19:32] <czajkowski> ah good
[19:32] <czajkowski> trying to orgnaise my team dinner also so looking for a place thats affordable and has good choice for 16 people
[19:33] <cgtdk> affordable, lol
[19:33] <cgtdk> I'm sorry
[19:33] <cgtdk> Some places are more affordable than others
[19:34] <cgtdk> It's just that they're all expensive (compared to other countries)
[19:34] <czajkowski> well yes
[19:34] <czajkowski> but I orgiginally come from Ireland and lived in Dublin
[19:34] <czajkowski> so most places are cheaper than that and I live in London now :)
[19:35] <cgtdk> ah
[19:36] <jarlen> http://www.rizraz.dk/ is pretty affordable, provides for vegetarians and meat eaters alike, and should fit 16 people if you order tables
[19:37] <jarlen> it's centrally located so you have a chance the city by night, but still only a short travel from the venue
[19:42] <czajkowski> jarlen: thanks
[19:59] <jarlen> I hope this gives a good basic idea about public transportation in Copenhagen :-)
[20:00] <cgtdk> jarlen: thumbs up for actually being helpful (as opposed to my contributions to this conversation)
[20:01] <jarlen> I thought it was about time I did something useful with my life ;-)
[20:02] <czajkowski> jarlen: thank you
[20:02] <jarlen> I hope it'll be useful to somebody
[20:05] <czajkowski> it will trust
[20:05] <czajkowski> me
[20:05] <czajkowski> so some teams ( this is not to pressure your loco) organise a meet n gret or a tour and if you you can add it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-R/OtherEvents
[20:05] <czajkowski> I know someone asked in ubuntu-locotams could they
[20:16] <jarlen> yeah, I saw mention about somebody discussing whether to have a kind of event
[20:17] <jarlen> not sure how it ended, but at least something is going on :)
[20:18] <jarlen> But it's probably hard with no clue about the amount of people going
[20:19] <jarlen> But I see there's a few of the danes on the attendee list, I'm sure they'll figure out something
[20:21] <czajkowski> jarlen: with that restaurant I cant seem to work out, if people want to have buffeet and some want to eat from set menu is  this possible do you know
[20:27] <jarlen> it is
[20:28] <czajkowski> great
[20:28] <jarlen> I believe the menu is vegetarian for 99DKK
[20:29] <jarlen> if you go for one of the 'steaks' in the menu, you can add on the buffet for 35DKK extra
[20:30] <czajkowski> oh I see
[20:30] <jarlen> so T-Bone + Buffet is 220+35 :-)
[20:33] <jarlen> on the contact page it says you can mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>for bookings, so they can probably help if you have any special requests as well
[20:34] <czajkowski> is that good value
[20:35] <jarlen> I'd probably choose something cheaper, personally :P
[20:35] <jarlen> the euro is ~7.45 DKK
[20:35] <jarlen> so it's about €30
[20:38] <czajkowski> ah not bad at all


[09:12] <bthomas> morning
[10:47] <bthomas> Chipaca: FYI going though ops testing code base now. Will catchup with you later today or monday before making any changes to discuss and have my implementation plan reviewed.
[10:47] <Chipaca> bthomas: 👍
[10:47] <Chipaca> bthomas: a lot of questions will have answers like "ok but what does Juju actually _do_ in that scenario"
[10:48] <Chipaca> 🙂
[10:48] <Chipaca> at least, if they're the kind of questions i was asking
[10:48] <bthomas> To ask a question I need to understand something first :-) . At present I know nothing.
[10:48] <bthomas> almost
[10:57] <facubatista> ¡Muy buenos días a todos!
[10:57] <bthomas> नमस्ते facubatista : Looks like you are having sleep disruption issues
[10:58] <facubatista> bthomas, not today! this is my normal starting hour...
[10:58] <bthomas> I stand corrected.
[10:59] <facubatista> no worries! timezones are hard
[10:59] <bthomas> yep. The are not even parallel to longitudes
[11:37] <bthomas> Chipaca: There are two self._is_leader in _TestingModelBackend.__init__ . Harmless typo ?
[11:37] <Chipaca> bthomas: yes, kill one if you're there
[11:37] <bthomas> done
[12:26] <JoseMasson> Good Morning!
[12:32] <bthomas> morning
[13:27] <facubatista> hola JoseMasson
[13:28] <JoseMasson> 🧉 !
[13:32] <Chipaca> JoseMasson: 🥟?
[13:33] <JoseMasson> Chipaca: I never had empanadas for breakfast... it's not a bad idea :P
[13:34] <Chipaca> JoseMasson: cold, like breakfast piza
[13:34] <Chipaca> s/z/zz/
[13:34] <Chipaca> JoseMasson: árabes don't work well for breakfast though. Humita do, quite well.
[13:34] <Chipaca> there's a gradient
[13:36] <Chipaca> JoseMasson: (also, i'm having lunch, so that might have something to do with it)
[13:37] <JoseMasson> Chipaca: You made me hungry :P
[13:37]  * Chipaca tags the 🥟 emoji as NSFW
[13:40] <bthomas> JoseMasson: my emacs was not able to show the emoji for code point U+01F9C9 . Are you using emacs for IRC ?
[13:41] <JoseMasson> bthomas: No, I use it only for editing code and playing tetris :P
[13:41] <facubatista> jajaja
[13:42]  * bthomas talks to Emacs Psychotherapist while playing Emacs tetris
[13:42] <bthomas> oops
[13:42] <JoseMasson> I used to use it to read email too, but not now
[13:44] <bthomas> Switching to gnus for email would need to setup LDAP integration and always work in VPN for that, so I stuck with browser.
[14:13] <mup> PR operator#446 closed: Minor clarification for deferred event doc string <Created by balbirthomas> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/446>
[14:13] <mup> PR operator#447 closed: give StoredFoo classes a useful __repr__ <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/447>
[14:14] <mup> PR operator#448 closed: Update README.md <Created by markshuttle> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/448>
[14:29] <Chipaca> going for a walk, bbiab
[15:50]  * Chipaca wonders if setting travis on fire would hurry it up
[15:57]  * bthomas sends anonymous arson threat report to travis and hides
[15:59]  * Chipaca sets arson threat report on fire
[16:01]  * bthomas sends 🚒
[16:06]  * Chipaca swaps fills 🚒 water tank with kerosene
[16:06] <Chipaca> s/swaps//
[16:56] <Chipaca> I'm going to go for a run, and come back later to give travis a chance
[16:56] <Chipaca> will review #453 at that point also
[16:56] <mup> PR #453: Basic goal-state exposure (num_units and pending_units) <Created by justinmclark> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/453>
[17:52] <Chipaca> the reports of me going on a run are greatly exaggerated
[17:53] <Chipaca> (weather is such that my hands physically hurt, which is a blocker for now)
[18:25] <Chipaca> EOD and EOW from me
[18:25] <Chipaca> 👋
[19:48] <bthomas> Have a nice weekend all. Bye.
[19:58]  * facubatista eods and eows! see you all!
[21:51] <mup> PR operator#451 closed: protect calls to juju-log from messages starting with dashes <Created by chipaca> <Merged by chipaca> <https://github.com/canonical/operator/pull/451>