[01:25] <dragon_> how do I know which lubuntu I have?
[01:25] <dragon_> I can`t remember if I upgraded
[01:28] <dragon_> oh, I am 23.04
 dragon: time to upgrade then 23.04 is end of life now
[01:39] <dragon_> I get this message when trying to release upgrade
[01:39] <dragon_> Please install all available updates for your release before upgrading.
[01:39] <dragon_> ...and I have done the basic upgrades
[01:40] <dragon_> bare with me. I shall have to continue tomorrow
[01:45] <dragon_> There is a desktop pacakge held back
[19:40] <dragon_> has anyone had problem with the 23.10 upgrade? I am in 23.04
[19:40] <dragon_> I get these two promts everytime I boot my pc, asking for password, but nothing happens
[19:41] <dragon_> i have followed the guide for general upgrading ubuntu
[19:45] <dragon_> when attempting to upgrade I get "Please install all available updates for your release before upgrading". That I have, just upgraded all the system allows
 Let me check something, sec
 Would you be able to open a terminal (Ctrl Alt T) and run apt list --upgradable?
 That will tell you what is still being held back
[19:51] <dragon_> I get; N: There is 1 additional version. Please use the '-a' switch to see it
[19:56] <dragon_> I don`t quite understand the terminal messages, but i have to play around with various commands from lists
[19:56] <dragon_> distro upgrade is at a hault
[20:05] <kc2bez> dragon_: if you could use a paste service to copy the messages you are seeing it would help us further.
[20:06] <kc2bez> !paste | dragon_
[20:07] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/7RB5VDFVJ
[20:08] <dragon_> does it make sense at your end?
[20:12] <kc2bez> Please use sudo apt update to update the package cache before sudo apt upgrade
[20:17] <dragon_> i have done that
[20:17] <dragon_> I have had several attemtps since yesterday,
[20:18] <dragon_> I get the same result
[20:21] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/25A73J6MP
[20:23] <kc2bez> I don't see where you did "sudo apt update"
[20:24] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/3PQV7FK6A
[20:24] <dragon_> sorry
[20:26] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/BAKGR6GS8
[20:27] <dragon_> I can`t see why or where the  updates are held back if at all?
[20:28] <dragon_> The last few days, 23.04 has become very impatient, it desperately wants me to upgrade
[20:31] <dragon_> what is an "-a switch"
[20:33] <dragon_> is it a difficult situation I am in?
[20:35] <dragon_> I would rather attempt an upgrade, rather than reinstall
[20:37] <kc2bez> please do a sudo apt-mark showhold
[20:38] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/7N3FAGWGX
[20:41] <kc2bez> It is all one command "sudo apt-mark showhold"
[20:43] <dragon_> it didnt result in anything
[20:44] <dragon_> ...it still doesn`t
[20:45] <kc2bez> Ok, let's try this "sudo apt-get --with-new-pkgs upgrade lubuntu-desktop"
[20:46] <dragon_> should I say YEs?
[20:47] <kc2bez> I am not sure what the question is.
[20:47] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/7JXPEVKNU
[20:48] <kc2bez> Yes is the correct answer
[20:49] <dragon_> https://dpaste.com/FAGAAZYDQ
[20:50] <dragon_> ...pipewire
[20:53] <kc2bez> Pipewire is good, it replaces pulseaudio. Ok, should be able to upgrade now. You might need to reboot first.
[20:53] <dragon_> back in a bit :- )
[22:04] <dragon_> looks like I have to wait a bit, the upgrader can`t connect to ubuntu server I think
[22:48] <dragon_> I am still stuck in 23.04, but the upgrader did something
[22:57] <dragon_> is anyone up tonight?
[22:58] <dragon_> I need approval from a higher sorce, something fishy going on
[23:16] <cristian_c> hi
[23:17] <cristian_c> I'd like to install lubuntu 23.10 toa baytrail device. I've chosen to replace the current installation in sdcard
[23:17] <dragon_> I some how managed to boot in 23.10
[23:18] <cristian_c> when I run installer, disks are properly detected
[23:19] <cristian_c> the issue is that when I select the target storage, just manual partitioning appears and if I select that and press next, I get the manual partitioning screen but Next button is disabled, even if I select the partition on sdcard
[23:19] <cristian_c> so I don't know how to move forward
[23:19] <cristian_c> this didn't happen with ubiquity in past
[23:19] <cristian_c> any ideas?
[23:21] <liemon> hello, maybe the boot partition is missing? cristian_c
[23:21] <liemon> you need at least a /home partition and a boot one
[23:21] <liemon> somebody can confirm this
[23:22] <cristian_c> liemon, no, I've double-checked with kde partition manager too
[23:23] <cristian_c> liemon, currently, on my existing installation boot partition is installed into another storage (internal eMMC) in a different partition and mounted as /boot
[23:24] <cristian_c> efi partition is installed in internal storage too, and mounted as /boot/efi
[23:25] <cristian_c> instead the root partition (which includes home too) is installed into sdcard
[23:25] <cristian_c> liemon, I don't know how to workaround the problem, ubiquity allowed me to install lubuntu
[23:32] <liemon> does the boot partition has the 'boot' flag?
[23:33] <liemon> https://manual.lubuntu.me/stable/1/1.3/installation.html#manual-partitioning
[23:48] <cristian_c> liemon, the boot partition (mounted as /boot), is locsted in the internal storage and kde partition manager shows the two flags are not enabled (Properties)
[23:49] <cristian_c> Flags: bios-grub and boot not enabled
[23:49] <cristian_c> liemon, though, I alwayse use that to boot the kernel
[23:49] <cristian_c> *always
[23:49] <cristian_c> and grub
[23:51] <liemon> i am not sure then, cristian_c
[23:52] <liemon> i always had to set the 'boot' partition to install lubuntu
[23:52] <liemon> but in this case i do not know the answer, since its a different 'scenario'
[23:54] <cristian_c> liemon, currently, boot flag is enabled with the fat32 efi partition
[23:55] <liemon> and that did enabled the 'next' button?
[23:56] <cristian_c> no
[23:57] <liemon> hmm, i guess the best option would be to wait until some dev comes around, they know best how to do this :)
[23:57] <liemon> in the meanwhile, a picture of the 'arrange' in the partition would be useful, in case somebody comes in here in a few minutes/hours
[23:58] <liemon> unfortunately i do not know how to proceed


 :-D
[08:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:35] <gord> realised i may have invented windows 8 accidently a year ago, didn't know microsoft designers were watching my feed! https://plus.google.com/112811220238447511854/posts/PLnsQAL2JYq
[08:37] <popey> :)
[08:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> I don't pretend to understand the technicalities of this but does this mean we're all (any Linux) good to go now? http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/10/linux-foundation-uefi-secure-boot-system-open-source
[08:43] <popey> there are other linuxes?
[08:43] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[08:44] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Yes there are. And some even do not have built-in shopping facilities ;-)
[08:46] <daubers> TheOpenSourcerer: There was another method being implimented by mjg (I think) that had a small bootloader that could then be used as a second trust keyset or something
[08:47] <AlanBell> isn't that the Ubuntu plan version 1?
[08:47] <daubers> http://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/17542.html <- Saw that idea not long ago
[08:51] <SuperMatt> Reading the /. artible about the donations page, and a lot of people are saying things like "why would anyone donate to ubuntu when they don't listen to their users?"
[08:52] <daubers> Ah the old "Well I wouldn't do it, so that means no-one wants to do it" fallacy
[08:52] <SuperMatt> indeed
[08:53] <AlanBell> they listen to the users they want to acquire
[08:53] <SuperMatt> yeah, I think canonical do more listening because they ACTUALLY BRING PEOPLE IN TO DO TESTING
[08:53] <SuperMatt> rather than make their own thing and tell everyone else to edit the source
[08:54] <AlanBell> which appears to be people they found in a Starbucks near the Apple store
[08:54] <gord> they have to have a scarf and hipster glasses or we don't let them in
[08:54] <daubers> AlanBell: Is that sabdfl's super secret lair?
[08:55]  * AlanBell has ordered 250 Ubuntu Desktop DVDs and 50 Ubuntu server CDs
[08:55] <AlanBell> didn't even ask me to donate :)
[08:56] <AlanBell> anyone want some? http://ubuntu-uk.org/free-cds/
[08:56]  * AlanBell should stick a donation slider on that page :)
[08:57] <Daviey> AlanBell: gone are the days of SAE, huh? :)
[08:57] <AlanBell> yeah, there is a re-education process about it, certainly
[08:58]  * TheOpenSourcerer has a dose of man-flu and is now thinking about making all kinds of hot curries to help him.
[08:58] <popey> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=ubuntu+12.10&_sacat=0&_from=R40
[08:58] <popey> people offering 12.10 images for pre-order
[09:00] <Daviey> popey: I wonder if we get a bunch of people to sign it, we could sell it as limited edition autographed ones?
[09:01] <Daviey> PRE-RELEASE 'Blue' (cd-r). Limited edition !
[09:02]  * TheOpenSourcerer 's wife now wants her machine upgraded to a similar spec to the one I did for the kids a couple of weeks ago. the i3-2125 is a decent little cpu/gpu combination for the price.
[09:08] <daubers> AlanBell: Any chance I could pick up 10 or so for Reading Hackspace?
[09:08] <daubers> Shall see if I can throw together a CD box or somesort to go on a shelf somewhere
[09:09] <AlanBell> daubers: sure
[09:11] <daubers> AlanBell: \o/ ta. I can pick them up next time I'm in your area of the woods, of if that won't be soonish will ship you a box with a stamp on it :)
[09:11] <daubers> stamp(s)
[09:12] <AlanBell> I will let you know when they arrive and we can sort something out
[09:15] <daubers> Cool :) Was semi-intending a trip to Guildford a bit closer to Christmas as I remember it being quite a nice Chrimbo shoppingy town
[09:15] <daubers> (memory may have been influenced by snow and people selling chestnuts from barrows)
[09:16] <Laney> Just come to UDS and get a handful from there. Much easier.
[09:16] <AlanBell> true
[09:16] <daubers> Probably somewhat more expensive....
[09:22] <SuperMatt> oh man, I just realised we only have a week to go
[09:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> SuperMatt: DON'T PANIC!
[09:24] <SuperMatt> I WON'T
[09:24] <SuperMatt> I'm looking forward to it
[09:24] <SuperMatt> I'm going to come out for drinks next week too
[09:26] <popey> daubers, it is..
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNk7bjcS0FM&t=02m53s # all one needs to know about Guildford
[09:26] <popey> seen elsewhere
[09:28] <popey> ooh, just remembered I'm getting a set of "Cards Against Humanity" at UDS. Fun.
[09:28] <dwatkins> I love Guildford, it has a road with lanes for A'shot and B'shot - I always thought they should make the third lane say C'shot.
[09:29] <SuperMatt> *sigh* I hate how vocal the unity haters are
[09:29] <SuperMatt> I understand that it wasn't great in previous versions, but now it's good and people are still whining.
[09:31] <daubers> popey: Might book that in with the missus and sort some times
[09:32] <popey> i go shopping in london every year, on xmas eve
[09:32] <popey> took the kids last year, was fun
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hamleys!
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> XMas eve.
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Mental
[09:32] <popey> nope
[09:32] <popey> its dead
[09:32] <popey> everyone says that :D
[09:32] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wasn't last time I did that.
[09:33] <popey> i have done it every year for the last ~7 years or so
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> 3 0r 4 yrs ago.
[09:33] <popey> I arrive at 07:30 though :)
[09:33] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[09:33] <daubers> ick, london
[09:33] <popey> get breakfast, start shopping at 8am, I am usually home before 12:00
[09:33]  * daubers doesn't do crowds
[09:34] <TheOpenSourcerer> Guildford is nice though. Picturesque and lots of shops. Parking can be a PITA though.
[09:34] <daubers> Used to take massive detours walking around the city centre in Swansea to avoid them
[09:34] <popey> its not crowded
[09:34] <daubers> London is _always_ crowded
[09:34] <popey> nope
[09:34] <popey> not at 7:30 on xmas eve
[09:34] <daubers> and smells bad
[09:34] <brobostigon> good morning everyone.
[09:34] <popey> because everyone thinks it will be, so they avoid it
[09:34] <daubers> Best thing about London is that there's lots of trains that take you back out again
[09:34] <popey> no queues in shops, its brilliant
[09:34] <czajkowski> daubers: london isn't always crowded it does have its moments
[09:35] <czajkowski> kinda like the olympics
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Oxford Circus around lunchtime on Xmas eve is where you want to be
[09:35] <czajkowski> it was dead week 1
[09:35] <popey> I drive up
[09:35] <daubers> czajkowski: Doesn't stop it smelling and being headache inducingly noisy
[09:35] <daubers> Urgh
[09:35] <czajkowski> daubers: no that's just reading :p
[09:35] <popey> going up the m3 on xmas eve the kids looked out the window and saw the sun rise.. "Daddy, is that the sun rising like in minecraft?"
[09:35] <popey> "yes, yes it is"
[09:35] <daubers> czajkowski: That's why I moved out of Reading when i could afford to :)
[09:35] <TheOpenSourcerer> Fulham was lovely (lived there for a few years).
[09:36] <TheOpenSourcerer> Lived round the corner from Jill Dando :-(
[09:36] <popey> and the lights were still on too in oxford street, so kids saw them
[09:39] <TREllis> guildford, rough? lol
[09:39] <TREllis> obviously that person had never been to Portsmouth :)
[09:40] <popey> hehe
[09:40]  * TREllis lived in Guildford for 7 years, not robbed once
[09:40] <mattt> that's a bonus
[09:58] <kjalil> hey guys, I was wondering if there are any plans to improve the notifications in Ubuntu or if that is a separate project? Things like stacked notifs, abilitiy to change notf background/foreground colors, change position of notification per-app would be nice
[09:59] <kjalil> I know there are a bunch of third-party hacks that do various things but don't work very well
[10:00] <kjalil> if this is the wrong place to raise this issue please let me know and I will ask on the mailing-lists or propose it as an improvement somewhere
[10:01] <popey> drat, my microserver has started making a lot of noise, i think it's the psu fan
[10:02] <kjalil> popey: can you help with my previous question? I'm not trolling, honest, just trying to help
[10:03] <popey> i think its under active development, yes
[10:03] <Laney> I don't think you should expect that kind of customisation to be implemented
[10:03] <popey> +1
[10:04] <AlanBell> there is some unfinished looking stuff in the notification code itself
[10:04] <AlanBell> you can specify northeast (default) or east (halfway up the right side of the screen)
[10:04] <AlanBell> it looks like other compass points should have been implemented but never were
[10:04] <kjalil> Laney: because Unity is meant to be very simple to use so less customisation?
[10:05] <AlanBell> kjalil: well it is going for a specific look, customisation is diverging from the intended design
[10:05] <kjalil> AlanBell: where is the notification code? might be easy to add those additional points...
[10:05] <AlanBell> it would be easy, yes
[10:06] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:06] <kjalil> ok, so if Unity doesn't want to do it, is there a way to write an external app like Growl on OSX that integrates with the native apps and adds that functionality?
[10:06] <AlanBell> lp:notify-osd and search for GRAVITY_NORTH_EAST
[10:07] <kjalil> I know there is a Growl on Linux project but doesn't look very promising, thought I haven't tried it comprehensively
[10:07] <AlanBell> kjalil: sure you could, it would not be massively hard
[10:07] <kjalil> http://mattn.github.com/growl-for-linux/
[10:07] <Laney> there are already other notification deamons
[10:08] <Laney> so yes, it's a possibility
[10:08] <AlanBell> there is a dbus signal to look for, then you have to display it somehow
[10:09] <AlanBell> the compass point Gravity stuff gets messy for multimonitors, they fixed northeast, but I had no notifications for the first year or so until I realised that having a right monitor that is shorter than the left monitor meant the bubble was off screen
[10:09] <kjalil> hmm, I really wouldn't want to diverge too much from the standard stuff, the simplest way to add proper customised notifications is what I am aiming for. I am talking in terms of both as a user and a programmer if I decide I want to hack around with it
[10:10] <kjalil> AlanBell: eeek, that sounds like bad code that was not written properly to detect the width of the screen and make sure the notif is always in the right place
[10:10] <AlanBell> sure, it was a bug. It got fixed.
[10:11] <AlanBell> just if you are going to do other positions you need to fix that kind of thing
[10:11] <kjalil> do the ubuntu devs not use multi-monitor setups much? I'm guessing they do
[10:11] <AlanBell> Some do, some don't
[10:11] <popey> some do
[10:11] <popey> some dont
[10:11] <popey> hah :)
[10:11] <kjalil> lol
[10:12] <popey> we have test suites for multi-monitor
[10:12] <AlanBell> more importantly the design team didn't seem to design for multimonitors (think that is being fixed a bit)
[10:12] <kjalil> do they prefer to fight with nouveau or just use nvidia?
[10:12] <popey> "All generalisations are bad"
[10:12] <kjalil> true
[10:12] <bigcalm> Haha
[10:14] <AlanBell> there will also be some people who use a matched pair of monitors who won't see some problems with asymetric screens
[10:14] <jonathonf> that's not just ubuntu; windows 7 has terrible multi-monitor wallpaper support :)
[10:15] <bigcalm> I have 4 screens on my desk, only 2 of them are identical
[10:15] <kjalil> my current problem and itch is that I want to use ubuntu at work but we use skype heavily and the notifications for that are pretty broken in Unity. I have tried skype-wrapper, tried running external 'notify-send' commands but nothing works as nicely as OSX + Growl, so I'm frustrated by that. If multiple things happen at once, they should be stacked and the background colour should be able to be changed so it stands out clearly
[10:16] <popey> what's the bug number for that problem?
[10:16] <kjalil> the best solution I have found so far is to use Xubuntu which makes the window titles blink so I know there is a new notif waiting for me
[10:16] <jonathonf> kde's notification applet (kind of) fixes that, it keeps all notifications until you clear them (also ported to gnome3/cinnamon). not that this helps in unity :)
[10:17] <AlanBell> popey: for the skype problem?
[10:17] <kjalil> popey: I would raise a bug, sure, should I do that thought? That is why I asked what is the proper way to get this fixed.  Raising a bug can sometimes be ignored, maybe some other avenue of discussion for this is better
[10:18] <kjalil> s/should/but should/
[10:18] <popey> filing a bug is the first step, not the last
[10:18] <AlanBell> yeah, but stacked notifications will be "opinion"
[10:18] <popey> i havent seen the issue you describe and i use skype on 12.04, so i would imagine many other devs havent seen it either
[10:19] <kjalil> popey: i'm afraid there are probably bugs similar to mine, probably ignored, I don't want this to end up like that, I want someone to actually look at it and discussion around fixing it
[10:19] <popey> how can we look at it and discuss it if we dont know about it?
[10:19] <kjalil> popey: fair enough, but is a *bug* the place to discuss feature additions? If so, ok I'll raise a bug
[10:20] <popey> depends
[10:20] <popey> i thought you were saying there is some way in which you dont see skype notifications?
[10:20] <kjalil> AlanBell: I don't think it's opinion, it's an option I think
[10:20] <kjalil> popey: yeah let me explain my setup
[10:21] <kjalil> popey: so I have 4 workspaces in Unity, and skype is not on the primary workspace which usually just terminals. When I get a notification in skype an extremely tiny notif pops up in the bottom right hand corner which is hard to read and can be easily missed
[10:21] <kjalil> you don't have this problem?
[10:21] <AlanBell> personally I don't run skype very often, just started it and it did one of its own notifications in the south east corner
[10:22] <kjalil> AlanBell: exactly
[10:22] <AlanBell> ok, so that isn't a unity notification
[10:22] <AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/skype-notify is what you need
[10:22] <kjalil> AlanBell: yes I know, variuous projects have attempted to wrap unity notifs around that
[10:23] <kjalil> AlanBell: ok, for some reason all my google searches have never led me to that project, only to skype-wrapper
[10:23] <kjalil> AlanBell: I will try that
[10:24] <AlanBell> and you could try and file a bug against skype and wait for Microsoft to improve their Ubuntu integration
[10:25] <kjalil> popey: we get a lot of notifs in my company from multiple channels. Growl on OSX allows me to change the color and put them anywhere I feel they will be more visible and only a few get stacked up. Also, the skype icon *predictably* updates with the no of unread notifs, it doesn't always do that in unity
[10:26] <kjalil> I have also tried to use Pidgin's skype integration but that is pretty incomplete
[10:26] <AlanBell> making unity notifications more functional is something that probably isn't going to happen in the default desktop - they meet the design specification already
[10:27] <kjalil> hmm, I feel they are a bit too "far away" from the top bar, if they dropped down flush with it, it would look nicer and I can't see why stacking up just a couple would be a bad idea, it could be made optional even with a default of 1
[10:28] <jonathonf> kjalil: no, they decided that the notification style is perfect. it's a notification-height away because that leaves space for volume change notification and screen brightness notifications
[10:29] <jonathonf> bugs were filed, opinions were had
[10:29] <jonathonf> "won't fix"
[10:29] <popey> nice timing jnick_tait :)
[10:31] <jonathonf> it's the same as having an option to keep menus visible, rather than having to hover, twitch, click. meets the design spec, "won't fix"
[10:31] <popey> I'm glad we don't have tweakable options for everything
[10:32] <popey> if we did, it would turn into kde
[10:32] <popey> "Would you like clocks with that?"
[10:32] <jonathonf> lol
[10:32] <kjalil> hmm, ok I can live with the extra space, but what about stacking a few up? If I submit code for that will it be ignored? I guess so
[10:33] <jonathonf> the thing i like least about kde is they still haven't sorted out SSO for keyrings. really annoying.
[10:33] <AlanBell> dunno, it means things get designed to be flexible if the expectation is they will be flexed
[10:33] <AlanBell> like the window buttons having the losenge baked into the button image for example
[10:33] <AlanBell> swap close and maximise and you get a right mess, because they are not designed to be moved
[10:34] <jonathonf> thankfully the window theme can be changed to get around that
[10:35] <popey> who maintains all of these tweakables?
[10:35] <jonathonf> wonder how long that will stay as a "tweakable option" :P
[10:35] <AlanBell> well I am OK with the window buttons, it is just an example of an ugly hack that they got away with by reducing flexibility
[10:36] <jonathonf> the people writing the software? this is the problem with not using upstream; you immediately reduce the number of people available
[10:36] <jonathonf> i'm pretty sure Unity would have been better off using KWin and Plasma
[10:36] <AlanBell> if you were designing for flexibility you would either need to implement a background layer losenge for the buttons to sit in, or not have the losenge
[10:37]  * popey tickles d0od
[10:37]  * gord checks the time, yup, sounds like toast-o-clock
[10:37] <d0od> popey: Don't, I'll enjoy it
[10:37] <popey> :)
[10:37] <jonathonf> the window theme engine should be able to do that; IIRC it's one of the limitations of using pixbuf
[10:38] <AlanBell> but they want to be able to get the reality to match the picture the designer came up with, so are sacrificing flexibility for cheap ways to get precision to the picture
[10:38] <jonathonf> yup
[10:38] <jonathonf> exactly
[10:39] <AlanBell> top panel shadow is another one, the design required it so it is there, it doesn't work in a range of unexpected situations, but in the default setup it matches the picture
[10:39] <jonathonf> was unity2d based on qml or just qt?
[10:40]  * jonathonf searches
[10:40] <jonathonf> it was QML
[10:40] <jonathonf> oh dear :)
[10:41] <kjalil> popey: where do I file this as a bug? on launchpad? if I try to submit there, it seems to say that "Proposing features and ideas: you should submit your idea to Ubuntu Brainstorm or to the ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list."
[10:41] <kjalil> so I guess a bug is not a good idea?
[10:43] <popey> Sorry, was busy rebuilding a server
[10:43] <popey> so in the form of a tweet, your issue is "notifications from skype are not visible enough" and "notifications don't stack up in the history" ?
[10:45] <AlanBell> d0od: coming to London next week?
[10:45] <kjalil> popey: yes, and "position can't be changed"
[10:46] <kjalil> popey: doesn't have to be skype-specific but in this case it is
[10:46] <kjalil> AlanBell: what's happening in london next week? I'm in London :-)
[10:46] <popey> release party
[10:46] <AlanBell> bug 1061229 is fix committed \o/
[10:46] <AlanBell> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/ubuntu-uk/2006/detail/
[10:47] <AlanBell> kjalil: where should I already have alerted you to the existence of the release party?
[10:47] <kjalil> AlanBell: 2006?
[10:47] <popey> haha, everyone says that
[10:47] <popey> its an ID
[10:47] <AlanBell> nope, it just happens to be the 2006th event that the loco teams have run
[10:47] <popey> I did mention to the developers of that website that having an ID in the url was mental but hey ho
[10:47] <kjalil> AlanBell: huh? nowhere :-) i'm new here, but wouldn't mind coming if I can
[10:48] <AlanBell> sure you can
[10:48] <AlanBell> it was posted to the mailing list and google plus and twitter and such, just wondering where else it should have been
[10:48] <AlanBell> probably should do a planet ubuntu post
[10:48] <jonathonf> do people realise that the grave key is in different places in different keyboard layouts? that's why MS used tab (same place on all)
[10:49] <AlanBell> jonathonf: yes, it is key-above-tab
[10:49] <AlanBell> and some muppet broke my carefully accurate description in the bug
[10:49] <kjalil> AlanBell: ah, right, I only just subscribed to various ubuntu mailing lists last night
[10:50] <kjalil> popey: you were asking me a question about the skype notif thing earlier?
[10:51] <kjalil> AlanBell: ok, it's near london bridge, I think I can make that
[10:51] <popey> kjalil, right, so if it matches the current design then filing a bug won't get far
[10:51] <popey> making a design mockup for how you think it should work would go further I suspect
[10:51] <popey> especially if articulated without hyperbole or sensationalism
[10:51] <jonathonf> AlanBell: ah, good :)
[10:52] <popey> and with sane reasons why, other than "I prefer it, therefore everyone will prefer it"
[10:52] <jonathonf> :D
[10:52] <popey> which seems to be what most people on the internet think
[10:52] <popey> "I think Unity sucks" therefore "Everyone hates unity"
[10:52] <jonathonf> if enough people think that, though...
[10:53] <kjalil> popey: I can try to be articulate, but don't want to spend a time and be ignored :-( but I guess you can but try
[10:53] <kjalil> s/a/the
[10:54] <popey> understood
[10:54] <AlanBell> jonathonf: yeah, but Canonical are interested in the opinions of people who don't use Linux yet
[10:54] <popey> note that nothing will change in 12.10 or 12.04
[10:54] <popey> We are planning 13.04 and 13.10 though
[10:57] <kjalil> popey: yeah if I can get my opinion heard for those it would be nice, but how would I do the mock up for example of a notf with a blue background?
[10:57] <jonathonf> AlanBell: so people who haven't lived with it? just people who say "ooh, shiny!" i remember showing off Compiz (pre-fusion) and turned on *all* the effects. wobbly windows, heavy animation, fire, you name it. reaction: "oooh, shiny!" utterly unusable day-to-day. :D
[10:57] <kjalil> popey: i'm not a graphic designer :-)
[10:57] <AlanBell> jonathonf: yes, those people
[10:57] <jonathonf> :D
[10:58] <d0od> jonathonf: Ha!
[10:58] <popey> my ex-boss turns on all those effects and gets very grumpy if they break
[10:58] <popey> he uses them on his netbook all the time
[10:58] <AlanBell> they need to maintain the "ooh shiney" until people get out of the shop and get home with it, preferably until the returns period expires ;)
[10:59] <d0od> AlanBell:  Cynical :P
[10:59] <AlanBell> d0od: just a teeny bit :)
[10:59] <popey> then drop back to CDE?
[11:00] <AlanBell> busybox!
[11:01] <jonathonf> usually gnome-classic-effects ;)
[11:01] <d0od> I envy you folks. For me Compiz with cube is old-skool
[11:02] <jonathonf> afterstep + gnome1. now *there* was a desktop :D
[11:02] <AlanBell> I have no idea why unity doesn't use cube
[11:02] <dwatkins> I wish I could have the cube again, with digital rain as the background, that was great
[11:02] <kjalil> ah good old afterstep, I wonder what happened to them
[11:02] <popey> workspaces should die in a fire

[11:03]  * dwatkins hands popey a shiny gem
[11:03]  * czajkowski loves workspaces *HATES* the cube
[11:03]  * czajkowski goes back to working
[11:03] <popey> i rarely use workspaces
[11:03] <AlanBell> I rarely use them now that the cube is gone/broken
[11:03] <kjalil> popey: you have mail + browser + terminals + IM in the same workspace?
[11:03] <d0od> popey: YANA.
[11:03] <popey> ya
[11:04] <popey> Master!
[11:04] <kjalil> master?
[11:04] <popey> T. i like workspaces. so
[11:04] <bigcalm> Yes, master!
[11:10] <davmor2> Morning all forgot earlier
[11:10] <jonathonf> it's afternoon now... :P
[11:10] <jonathonf> wait
[11:10] <diplo> Never used workspaces myself
[11:10] <jonathonf> n/m
[11:10] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[11:10]  * diplo is upgrading his work PC to Quantal
[11:11]  * diplo crosses fingers
[11:11]  * davmor2 prods czajkowski the cude is just workspaces presented differently :P
[11:11] <bigcalm> 3 active monitors, 6 separate workspaces on each :D I'm a real estate hog
[11:11] <davmor2> diplo: mad fool
[11:12] <diplo> I'm using it at home and prefer it, but that was a clean install
[11:12] <diplo> Not done an upgrade since maybe the 9.* days
[11:12] <czajkowski> davmor2: I use 4 heavily, one for termnal and browser for work stuff one for mail one for browsers for non work stuff one spare  maybe movies
[11:13] <bittin^work> got a second monitor at work perfect for running irc and a twitterclient on :)
[11:13] <diplo> Do you guys who use workspaces only have single monitor ?
[11:13] <bigcalm> diplo: no, see above
[11:13] <d0od> czajkowski: How do you typically switched between them?
[11:13] <diplo> blimey bigcalm
[11:14] <diplo> See my problem with workspaces is I forget i have stuff on them
[11:14] <bigcalm> diplo: I think the same thing at times
[11:14]  * davmor2 gave up using workspaces when I realised that I was spending more time switching between them than working
[11:14] <czajkowski> ctl alt  arrows
[11:14] <czajkowski> I lay them out the same way every day so cant forget
[11:14] <d0od> Ahh, see most people I know who 'heavily' use Workspaces also tend to be heavy keyboard shortcut users, too
[11:14] <kjalil> diplo: I have 4, I have assigned a hot key to each, like Alt+1, Alt+2, etc
[11:14] <bigcalm> diplo: I also use xubuntu-desktop, which a different experience over Unity workspaces I think
[11:14] <kjalil> d0od: yes in my case that's true
[11:15] <davmor2> czajkowski: but I am opening and closing windows all day, so you wind up in the wrong workspace and then it's back and forth all day
[11:15] <czajkowski> davmor2: aye sure each to their own :)
[11:15] <diplo> I wish it did a quick number as you selected the workspace or something maybe, or you could name them maybe
[11:16] <davmor2> plus at the time you couldn't use alt+tab to switch to an app on another workspace which was really annoying don't know if that is still the same now
[11:16] <d0od> my mentally-created dream Ubuntu keyboard has a grid of 4 buttons on it, each assigned to a workspace #ProperlyShouldntAdmitThat
[11:17] <AlanBell> popey: how is my Ubuntu keyboard getting on?
[11:17] <popey> Very nicely. Keep forgetting to take it to the office. /o\
[11:17] <popey> will take it in on thursday
[11:17] <popey> well, keep forgetting to go into the office more like
[11:18] <AlanBell> ok, would be nice to show it to the shop people
[11:18] <popey> yeah, will do
[11:19] <d0od> Ubuntu keyboard?
[11:19] <AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2011/07/a-super-key-you-will-want-to-press/
[11:20] <kjalil> why is that keyboard on *grass*?
[11:21] <AlanBell> doesn't everyone have a grassed desk?
[11:21] <d0od> Ha!
[11:27] <popey> it is a really awesome keyboard
[11:30] <diplo> But just looked at the price! blimey....
[11:33] <AlanBell> this rain isn't going to stop :(
[11:34] <popey> it's raining?
[11:35] <AlanBell> yeah, I was going to go to the post office when it stopped raining, then to the office. Has not stopped raining so have been working from home
[11:35] <mgdm> If I was to get a relatively custom keyboard I'd just get blank keys
[11:36] <AlanBell> get a das keyboard
[11:36] <mgdm> I did consider it, but I don't like noisy keyboards
[11:36] <bootlfdhfrsa> Biggest problem that faces the IOM ::: NO GREGGS !
[11:37] <mgdm> I'm actually quite happy with the Apple wired keyboard now
[11:37] <mgdm> I can't be doing with the wireless one
[11:37] <popey> I will probably get another thinkpad one
[11:38] <bigcalm> Hayley hates my keyboard. It's handy to have a spare, quiet, one for late night coding :)
[11:39] <diplo> I have an old dell one that just works, fairly quiet but one of the stands is broken :(
[11:40] <bigcalm> My goodness, I never knew that the intro music for THHGTTG was Eagles - Journey of the Sorcerer
[11:40] <bigcalm> You learn something new every day
[11:41] <christel> AlanBell: i reckon it'll stop just after easter
[11:41] <christel> briefly
[11:42] <mgdm> popey: yeah, they're nice too - quite fancied one but they were extremely expensive when I looked
[11:42] <mgdm> bigcalm: wow
[11:42] <popey> yeah, still are
[11:42] <bigcalm> Having heard the intro, I'm now waiting for Peter Jones to start talking to me
[11:43] <popey> :)
[11:43] <popey> i cant find it on spotify :(
[11:43] <mgdm> nor me :(
[11:43] <popey> only a 1:15 version from the OSK
[11:43] <popey> OST
[11:43] <bigcalm> http://grooveshark.com/#!/playlist/PHP/68417636
[11:44] <bigcalm> Was pasted into #phpnw. It's half way down the play list
[11:45] <popey> ta
[11:45]  * popey winds it up to 11
[11:45]  * mgdm reverts to LCD Soundsystem
[11:45] <bigcalm> Heh
[11:46] <bigcalm> I didn't get sick from attending phpnw12. Quite pleased about that
[11:46]  * bittin^work listning to Lacuna Coil
[11:46] <mgdm> \o/
[11:46] <bittin^work> o/
[11:48] <popey> bah, want to buy that track now
[11:48] <bigcalm> Tis good
[11:49] <diplo> Hadnt heard of Lacuna Coil before, listening to it now.. quite like!
[11:54] <jonathonf> tip: do not accept four tubs of pear and apple "light" cottage cheese as a substitute for one tub of longley farm cottage cheese.
[11:55] <christel> <3 lacuna coil
[11:55] <christel> bigcalm: do you normally get sick whenever you go somewhere? :P
[11:55] <bigcalm> christel: there seems to be a pattern
[11:56] <christel> hehe
[11:56] <bittin^work> christel indeed found out of them becouse i confused them with Icon of Coil :D
[11:56] <bigcalm> I need to lay off the booze in the socials
[11:57] <christel> haha
[12:14] <AlanBell> this shopping lens is really odd, it doesn't seem to be a separate lens and it populates results into other lenses
[12:16]  * AlanBell wonders if that is even a bug
[12:17]  * bigcalm knows of an alternative ;)
[12:18] <popey> AlanBell, yes, it populates the home lens
[12:18] <AlanBell> same in a guest session, has to be a bug, but I can't see how it would be missed
[12:18] <bigcalm> Lunch time!
[12:18] <popey> how so?
[12:19] <AlanBell> sure, it populates the global search which is controvertial, but I am fine with it
[12:19] <popey> ok, so whats the issue?
[12:19] <AlanBell> I want to click the shopping lens at the bottom of the dash so my shopping searches don't get cluttered with files and applications etc
[12:19] <popey> thats not implemented
[12:19] <AlanBell> :o
[12:20] <AlanBell> so if you turn it off in the home lens you can't get to it at all
[12:20] <bittin^work> gonna order this next week when i have money: http://www.komplett.se/k/ki.aspx?sku=755746 :)
[12:20] <popey> how do you mean "turn it off"?
[12:21] <AlanBell> well isn't there a control on the way to stop things responding to active_global_search signals so they only respond to scope.active_search
[12:22] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses#Reacting_to_the_active-global-search_changing
[12:23] <AlanBell> I figured they were going to blank active_global_search for certain lenses to choose which were allowed to listen to home searches
[12:23] <AlanBell> anyhow, not having a lens icon kind of makes lenses inconsistent and confusing
[12:25] <AlanBell> actually it is the scope you don't want to allow to bind to the global search
[12:26] <AlanBell> hmm, that would need to be a per-scope user interface to control this stuff, that is going to confuse people
[12:28] <popey> yeah, it should really be called unity-shopping-scope IMO
[12:29] <AlanBell> no the scope would be unity-shopping-amazon-scope
[12:29] <AlanBell> or unity-shopping-products.ubuntu.com
[12:30] <AlanBell> there could be other scopes tossing results into the shopping lens
[12:30] <AlanBell> and the architecture means they would have to be controlled individually to stop them accessing global search queries
[12:31] <AlanBell> you could stop the lens displaying the results, but the scopes would already have read the results and done evil things with it in the background
[12:32] <AlanBell> I really do think the lack of a separate lens for shopping is a bad thing. It breaks most explanations of the dash and lenses.
[12:33] <jonathonf> ^ this
[12:34] <jonathonf> but then again, "I don't like it, therefore it must be wrong for everyone" :D
[12:35] <popey> given how many people have told me they dont mind it or quite like it, yeah, that.
[12:35] <AlanBell> I don't mind the lens, I just want to be able to explain lenses to people
[12:36] <czajkowski> maybe the design team have some other experience of this that made them do it this way
[12:36] <jonathonf> i'd wonder what sort of reaction there would be if Microsoft included adverts in Windows Search...
[12:36] <jonathonf> but hey
[12:36] <jonathonf> as you say
[12:36] <jonathonf> people have told you they like it
[12:38] <popey> if everyone paid 20-400 quid per copy of Ubuntu (like windows)  then maybe this wouldn't be needed
[12:39] <Daviey> jonathonf: What is your beef?
[12:40] <popey> mmm beef
[12:40] <popey> http://drool.popey.com/
[12:40] <Daviey> popey: i'll join you, http://drool.daviey.com/
[12:41] <Daviey> (shamelessly stolen)
[12:41] <jonathonf> Daviey: i'm trying to form the issue into something that doesn't sound like a snarky comment; always found that difficult in IRC
[12:43] <Daviey> jonathonf: It's easy to turn off, it's useful for many, it helps to fund ubuntu development and you are not paying for it.
[12:44] <Daviey> Nobody is being forced to use that, or anything.
[12:44] <Daviey> http://start.ubuntu.com/ being the default homepage is the same..
[12:45] <jonathonf> yup
[12:46] <popey> i wonder what the webstats for http://start.ubuntu.com/12.04/sprite.png look like :)
 could someone with nvidia binary, someone with nvidia nouveau and/or someone with fglrx try out the nux from  ppa:timo-jyrinki/prerelease in quantal and report back if seeing anything regressing in bringing Dash visible / active blur?
[12:56] <popey> ^^^ anyone?
[12:57]  * TheOpenSourcerer has just made a Pork Vindaloo with loads of spices and chillies. It will now simmer gently in the oven for a hour or so then rest before dinner time :-D
[12:59] <Daviey> TheOpenSourcerer: Nice.. Next time make a dog curry?
[13:00] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have not been to Korea and so not tried dog. Have you?
[13:01] <Daviey> It's on my todo.. But best not go to India to eat pork :)
[13:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Horse is very tasty though - had that in France & Spain
[13:01] <TheOpenSourcerer> Pork is fine in the South and Sri Lanka
[13:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Many peeps eat it there.
[13:02] <Daviey> I struggled to eat frog legs, when my daughter said they looked like they belonged to fairies.  She is correct, they do.
[13:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> lol
[13:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Snails FTW!
[13:02] <Daviey> Snails served ice cold FTL
[13:02] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww
[13:03] <jonathonf> i guess i'm shouting into the wind here. i have no established credibility. i'm another faceless internet commenter. but there's a difference between searching the internet and searching my local machine. the argument that "if you don't like it, don't use it" is well established within OSS projects but it still does not allow for a satisfactory discussion, especially when discussion has already taken place between those who support the view/position
[13:03] <jonathonf> /change. i'm also not convinced of the "fund ubuntu" argument given that most software is written by other people (libreoffice, firefox, etc.). yes, there's maintenance to be done, but then other distros manage just fine without embedding affiliate codes; IIRC tehre was an outcry when Mint wanted to change Rhythmbox to gain some affiliate sales, were shouted down, and removed the change - Ubuntu made the change and stuck with it. i dislike the aggre
[13:03] <jonathonf> ssive attempts to extract revenue, and the movement down this path seems similar to someone who sets up a kiosk next to the road to provide directions, then starts charging a toll for the road.
[13:04] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Tigers in Kent like Half a horse for their meals they get a little over protective over their food though, their get lost I'm eating growl is loud
[13:04] <jonathonf> not quite as expressive as i would like, but it's difficult writing being able to see only one line at a time
[13:04] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Are there many tigers in Kent?
[13:05] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: yeap there is a tiger sanctuary WHF in kent
[13:05] <TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh. Kewl.
[13:06] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.whf.org.uk/index.esp
[13:08] <TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm - Big Cat Encounter days...
[13:10] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: https://picasaweb.google.com/104244164525559506101/TigerTrip2010
[13:10] <popey> "but then other distros manage just fine without embedding affiliate codes"
[13:10] <popey> Linux Mint.
[13:10] <popey> PinguyOS
[13:10] <marxjohnson> jonathonf: regardless of who writes the applications, Canonical employ a lot of people to bring it all together, make sure the underlying stuff works with hardware, promote it, package it, test it, host it and so on. Plus now that we've got Unity, there's a lot of design, UX testing and so on to think about. Plus development of tablet/mobile/TV. These things aren't free.
[13:10] <popey> Two examples of current, popular distros that put those affiliate codes on _everything_ they can
[13:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Nice davmor2 :-)
[13:12] <popey> jonathonf, mint go out of their way to remove ubuntu affiliate codes from software we package and host.
[13:15] <jonathonf> it's ok, i give up
[13:16] <jonathonf> i realised that while MacOSX is based on BSD, and Apple feed back stuff from Darwin into BSD, they're not selling BSD
[13:16] <Daviey> popey: i didn't know that.. that is pretty bad!
[13:16] <jonathonf> they're selling a front-end and application ecosystem
[13:16] <Daviey> Apple has little relation to BSD :)
[13:16] <Daviey> Once, sure.. but now..
[13:16] <jonathonf> OpenDarwin?
[13:17] <popey> that makes up a tiny part of the system
[13:17] <jonathonf> though i haven't looked at it for a while
[13:17] <popey> jonathonf, it's not that we're ignoring your argument
[13:17] <jonathonf> didn't ubuntu remove gnome's affiliate codes?
[13:17] <popey> it's that we've heard it a few times over the last week
[13:18] <Daviey> jonathonf: No, Ubuntu set their own code.
[13:18] <jonathonf> isn't "hearing it a few times" indicative that it's not just one person's view?
[13:18] <popey> i never said it was one persons view
[13:18] <popey> did I?
[13:18] <jonathonf> or do you mean on the channel?
[13:18] <popey> I mean on "The Internet"
[13:18] <popey> bloggers and the like
[13:19] <popey> and news reports, repeating bloggers
[13:19] <popey> and bloggers, repeating news reports, repeating bloggers
[13:19] <popey> etc
[13:19] <Daviey> jonathonf: To clarify your view is that it is wrong for Canonical to try to cover costs this way, and they have no right to have expenses as other projects manage just fine?
 "I think Unity sucks" therefore "Everyone hates unity"
[13:19] <jonathonf> ok, that's not quite the same, sorry
[13:19] <Daviey> Even thou, Firefox make the majority of their money through affiliation with google.
[13:19] <davmor2> jonathonf: No they removed banshee's code and put in their own and then donated 25% of that plus 25% of U1 music sales to Gnome
[13:20] <popey> I dunno, I just think people are blowing this up out of proportion like _every_ _single_ _thing_ we do
[13:20] <popey> buttons move -> world ends
[13:20] <popey> gimp removed from default install -> world ends
[13:20] <popey> unity by default -> world ends
[13:20] <jonathonf> Daviey: it's about the tone. putting an amazon search into it's own lens is one thing, making it global is another
[13:20] <popey> etc
[13:20] <jonathonf> davmor2: ah, right, i couldn't remember clearly
[13:22] <popey> no more alternate cd -> world ends
[13:22]  * TheOpenSourcerer wonders if we could talk about food more?
[13:22] <popey> we should make a big list of all the things we've done that have "completely broken" ubuntu
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> http://ratemyspicerack.com/opensourcerer/ :-)
[13:23] <jonathonf> Daviey: plus the Firefox+Google is through internet search, they're not monitoring my address bar an suggesting amazon links :)
[13:23] <jonathonf> i have no spice rack :(
[13:23] <TheOpenSourcerer> Technically neither do I.
[13:23] <davmor2> popey: on quantal I want to know what your Secret is......Honest you have a secret http://ubuntuone.com/3F1SF6UZxbaK5vXjXpDi4C
[13:23] <Daviey> jonathonf: Are you kidding?  Where do you spend most of your life?
[13:23] <marxjohnson> jonathonf: no, just suggesting adverts all over the rest of the Intenet
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> I have a spice cupboard and some boxes
[13:24] <Daviey> jonathonf: and the awesome bar, means you share everything
[13:24] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Man that looks crap.
[13:26] <davmor2> popey: I'm not sure why all the docs showed up though :D
[13:27] <jonathonf> i'm not aware that typing into the firefox location bar shares this with anyone... if it press enter when not on  a url it'll do a search, but what i type isn't otherwise transmitted?
[13:27] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wonder if someone will write a version of "Adblock plus" for Unity ;-)
[13:28] <popey> food you say? http://popey.com/~alan/shopping.png
[13:28] <diplo> I've just eaten, now you're making me think about it again!
[13:29] <Daviey> jonathonf: Ah, chrome it does.. on firefox there is a seperate bar
[13:29] <Daviey> it's funny, because popey cleaned his desktop before taking a screenshot
[13:30] <jonathonf> that reminds me.. i need more fish sauce
[13:31] <davmor2> Daviey: no that is a guest session
[13:31] <popey> guest session :)
[13:32] <davmor2> popey: I'll have to remember that in future :D
[13:33] <jonathonf> oh, talking of the alternate cd, is the mini.iso staying?
[13:34] <davmor2> jonathonf: it is
[13:34] <Daviey> jonathonf: the mini.iso  has become more important
[13:34] <Daviey> it's a release deliverable that undergoes proper QA now.
[13:34] <czajkowski> popey: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/251419850541522944/photo/1/large  shopping from th dash is AWESOME!
[13:34] <jonathonf> good, good. love it for setting up minimal VMs
[13:34] <davmor2> Daviey: it did when I was testing it way back :P
[13:35] <popey> my thats a busy indicator are you have there czajkowski
[13:35] <Daviey> davmor2: I said proper testing, not morely testing
[13:35] <Daviey> jonathonf: If you are setting up minimal vm's using mini.iso, you are possibly doing it wrong
[13:35] <davmor2> Daviey: I think if you ask around if it can withstand my testing it is a pass :P
[13:36] <jonathonf> mini.iso -> command line install
[13:36] <jonathonf> though i'm open to suggestions :)
[13:37] <Daviey> jonathonf: using the cloud images makes more sense IMO
[13:37] <davmor2> jonathonf: why would you need to do a cli install?
[13:38]  * jonathonf looks for cloud images
[13:39] <jonathonf> davmor2: for a fully minimal installation, e.g. I have one VM just for playing with node.js.
[13:39] <jonathonf> lol, fully minimal
[13:40] <davmor2> jonathonf: http://www.stgraber.org/2012/05/04/lxc-in-ubuntu-12-04-lts/ you might want to look at this then
[13:40] <kjalil> popey: I have a bug on my home desktop where pulseaudio needs to be killed in order to prevent the sound from skipping, especially when watching flash, before I submit it as a new bug, just wanted to check if anyone else has experienced this? Maybe it's fixed in the next release?
[13:40] <kjalil> popey: looking at launchpad and searching I don't find anything exactly relevant
[13:41] <jonathonf> davmor2: ooo, this is new stuff to me, nice
[13:42] <popey> kjalil, google turned up this http://askubuntu.com/questions/122148/flash-in-browsers-does-not-play-sound-accurately-using-pulse-network-audio/612
[13:46] <popey> http://mashable.com/2012/10/10/txtr-beagle-e-reader/  stupidly cheap e-reader
[13:47] <jonathonf> reading about the openstack/ubuntu cloud stuff... it's companies like rackspace and nasa that should be funding development like a RHEL-type product, with funding for ubuntu coming down from that
[13:47] <jonathonf> s/development like/development for/
[13:50] <kjalil> popey: nice, thanks! they don't seem to have solved the problem yet though
[13:51] <AlanBell> "The txtr beagle has no standby-mode: off is off. Switch the device on and start reading within a few seconds. With this concept, two AAA batteries enable you to read 12-15 books per year."
[13:52] <AlanBell> does that sound like a rather low number of books to read in a year to you?
[13:52] <diplo> Anyone here used Hugin ?
[13:53] <jonathonf> that's one per month
[13:54] <jonathonf> and i bet that's to get a year's battery life
[13:54] <diplo> I read probably a book a week
[13:54] <diplo> Sometimes quicker, sometimes slower
[13:55] <jonathonf> "batteries will last a year" sounds better than "batteries will last 10,000 page turns" ;)
[13:55] <daubers> diplo: hugin rocks
[13:59] <diplo> daubers: I'm not finding that yet ( no exif data )
[13:59] <diplo> And I may just suck
[13:59] <diplo> Latter more than likely true
[14:00] <AlanBell> jonathonf: yeah, I guess it is like hard drives being sold by the number of songs/movies they can store rather than scare people with actual information
[14:05] <jonathonf> are there any recommended resources for lxc? i think i'm missing some things from my install (like cgroups, though i think i just installed that with cgroups-lite)
[14:05] <daubers> diplo: Thought there was options for adding exif data.... tbh I've been more concerned with getting ENORMOUS pano's :)
[14:06]  * AlanBell wonders about hugin + pan&tilt camera
[14:07] <diplo> yeah, I can't do anything with it at the mo
[14:07] <diplo> trying to follow a tutorial but sucking badly
[14:07] <diplo> :)
[14:09] <bigcalm> My chair has tilted back so far that I'm contemplating a nap
[14:09] <jonathonf> do or do not, there is no contemplate
[14:10] <bigcalm> jonathonf: I work from home. I have been known to go back to bed for a nap before now
[14:10] <bigcalm> And writing quotes always makes me want to take a nap
[14:11] <jonathonf> a 20 minute nap is supposed to be good for concentration
[14:11] <jonathonf> (obviously not while napping)
[14:11] <daubers> diplo: I did have some good examples on flickr... but a lot of my flickr stuffs disappeared apparently
[14:12] <bigcalm> daubers: did you pay the bill?
[14:12] <daubers> bigcalm: I did ned my pro account...... does that remove all your "pro" content?
[14:12] <bigcalm> Did or didn't?
[14:12] <daubers> did
[14:13] <bigcalm> Then I'm confused by your sentance
[14:13] <bigcalm> sentence
[14:13] <daubers> If you close your pro account, does it remove all the content you uploaded when you had it?
[14:14] <bigcalm> Oh, if you close it, then possibly
[14:14] <bigcalm> If you forget to renew and then do so later, I think you get your old content back
[14:14] <daubers> diplo: I have some pano's made from hundreds of photos
[14:15] <diplo> I don't think i understand the lingo very well
[14:15] <daubers> diplo: What are you struggling with (I more or less let it do it all automagically)
[14:16] <diplo> Well that's what it tells me to do, but it says it can't find any reference points etc
[14:16] <daubers> How many photo's are you trying to stitch together?
[14:16] <diplo> 4
[14:16] <daubers> and they overlap?
[14:17] <diplo> yeah
[14:17] <daubers> jpg's?
[14:17] <diplo> yep
[14:17] <daubers> Hmm..... can you throw me the set?
[14:17] <diplo> Uploading now
[14:17]  * daubers lets hugin install again
[14:18] <mgdm> Flickr Pro accounts expiring just means you only get the last 200 photos
[14:18] <mgdm> the rest of the stuff is safe, just hidden
[14:18] <daubers> mgdm: Ah!!! That'd be it
[14:22] <diplo> daubers: the jpgs are scans, and quite large could that be the cause
[14:22] <daubers> diplo: Wouldn't have thought so....
[14:22] <diplo> 2mins left..
[14:22] <daubers> I've given it images at different zoom lengths before and it mostly sorts itself out
[14:22] <AlanBell> system requirements for Ubuntu have changed for 12.10, Ram is up to 768 from 256 and HDD up to 5GB from 4GB
[14:23] <ali1234> 12.04 ran in 256mb? you've got to be kidding
[14:24] <AlanBell> well quite, but I am looking at what gets printed on the CD wallets
[14:24] <AlanBell> I hardly think this is an OMG RAM requirements have trebbled thing /o\
[14:24] <AlanBell> more a readjustment to reflect reality
[14:24] <daubers> AlanBell: Give it 12 hours and it will be
[14:25] <AlanBell> will be what?
[14:25] <daubers> an /o\ zomg they trebled the RAM requirment <world ends>
[14:26] <AlanBell> it could be, wonder if d0od spotted that one too
[14:26] <diplo> daubers:  from 4GB
[14:26] <diplo> hmm cp and paste didn't work
[14:26] <diplo> :D
[14:27] <daubers> :)
[14:27] <diplo> http://apartington.co.uk/grove.zip
[14:27] <diplo> lmk when you have it and i'll delet0r
[14:27] <daubers> 4 minutes :)
[14:27] <diplo> I didn't scan though
[14:28] <AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PrecisePangolin/ReleaseNotes/UbuntuDesktop#System_Requirements actually says 384 but the printed wallets are 256
[14:29] <daubers> diplo: got
[14:29] <diplo> ta
[14:30] <daubers> Have you got the lens data from the original images?
[14:31] <daubers> (focal length and HFOV)
[14:31] <diplo> No, it was a school photo and my dad had a copy and scanned in, i don't know any details
[14:31] <diplo> I read notes and was guessing via the notes
[14:31] <diplo> http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/multi-lens/en.shtml
[14:34] <jonathonf> wait, what? ram use has tripled? omg ubuntu has become soo bloated!11ty1
[14:47] <daubers> diplo: Is the first image the final imae?
[14:49] <diplo> 2006 is the first one yeah
[14:49] <diplo> and works it's way back]
[14:53] <daubers> right, just let it align again...
[14:55] <daubers> try a different set of lens settings.....
[14:56] <diplo> a man in the know
[14:56] <diplo> Well better than me
[14:56] <diplo> :P
[14:56] <daubers> it's more a case of, if this was from a digi camera it would magically make it fit from the EXIF data :) This is trial and error of what it might be
[15:03] <diplo> I think i was having more errors than good trials :D
[15:07] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: http://www.nickys-nursery.co.uk/garden-shop/seeds/chilli-seeds-by-type/bulk-chilli-seeds/peppers-chilli-rocoto-red ? maybe
[15:09] <TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Thanks... How did you find that? My Google Fu must be deserting me
[15:09] <popey> TheOpenSourcerer, do you sell peppers you grow or do you not have enough to have any spare?
[15:10] <davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: rogoto red chilli seeds google noticed the spelling mistake before I did
[15:10] <TheOpenSourcerer> popey: No. I never have enough. I give some to friends (or enemies) when I have spare. But this year was a disaster frankly.
[15:10] <popey> i might plant some next year
[15:11] <popey> fancy getting one of those slim upright mini greenhouse things
[15:11] <popey> not got much space in my garden
[15:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Start in January or even December and keep them indoors.
[15:11] <ndf> a friend of mine recently bought a "yellow brain chilli"... you know anything about those?
[15:11] <TheOpenSourcerer> Until march/april
[15:11] <popey> yeah, i have a long window-sill in the den, south facing
[15:11] <popey> currently has loads of crap on it though
[15:11] <popey> ---> bin
[15:11] <popey> --> ebay :)
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> ndf: There are millions of varieties now.
[15:12] <TheOpenSourcerer> "Brain Strain" is pretty awesome. I have some seeds for those :-D
[15:12]  * daubers will be breaking out the heated propogator again this year
[15:13] <popey> ooh, ebay have changed their logo
[15:15] <ndf> he was showing us this chilli and he'd only touched the skin, after about 5 minutes he'd touched his face a few times and his eyes were burning, his nose was running
[15:15] <ndf> lol
[15:15] <popey> :D
[15:19] <gord> youtubes design keeps changing for me. i think they may be about to roll out some updated design. i'm going to set fire to my pitchfork just in preperation
[15:19] <Laney> at least he didn't go to the toilet
[15:20] <ndf> yeah i haven't installed flash yet and youtube automatically HTML5'd it for me, but it's stopped doing it now
[15:20] <popey> yeah
[15:20] <popey> i had two browser tabs open, different design in each!
[15:20] <ndf> i think that's what they're updating
[15:20] <popey> both logged into same account, same browser
[15:20] <popey> mental
[15:21] <TheOpenSourcerer> Wow - just tasted the curry I made earlier. 1 x Dried Bhut Jolokia, 1 x Trinidad Scorpion Mouraga, a dozen or so dried red chilli (cayenne types) and a couple of teaspoons of extra hot chilli powder. It's a tad warm.
[15:23] <davmor2> ohhhhhhh IE10 is blocking flash unless it is from a whitelisted site html5 video ftw
[15:24] <ndf> IE is doing something sensible!?
[15:24] <gord> html5 video is kind of crappy, people seem to forget that there is a reason people still use flash
[15:24] <ndf> there may be a reason to use flash, but it's never a good one ;P
[15:24] <ndf> flash is terrible
[15:25] <ndf> hogs so much memory
[15:26] <ndf> I thought Adobe announced that they were going to discontinue flash about 3 years ago lol
[15:27] <davmor2> gord: I didn't think webm was that bad
[15:27] <gord> i didn't think IE10 even supported webm, webm doesn't do DRM either does it?
[15:30] <AlanBell> flash doesn't do full screen right (or the youtube implementation of it doesn't)
[15:31] <ndf> mine seems to fullscreen ok - I sometimes have issues with which monitor it thinks should be used, but that's just because it chooses the primary display over the current
[15:32] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/youtubefullscreen.png
[15:33] <AlanBell> let me do a better one
[15:33] <ndf> odd =/
[15:36] <AlanBell> so the screen on the left is kind of big and running a full screen youtube, screen on the right is smaller and has other stuff on it
[15:37] <AlanBell> screen on the left is fully occupied by the flash object, but the video plays in a bit in the middle, slightly smaller than the other screen
[15:37] <AlanBell> I believe this is something ali1234 has fixed with a wrapper
[15:39] <popey> yeah, i get that too
[15:40] <ndf> is it actually the size of the other screen?
[15:40] <AlanBell> https://github.com/ali1234/fullscreenhack
[15:40] <AlanBell> ndf: no
[15:43] <AlanBell> and ali1234's fullscreenhack works a treat
[15:45] <kjalil> AlanBell: yes that's quite an annoying problem I faced too when using dual screens, from memory that hack *did not* work for me, I'm on a single monitor now
[15:46] <AlanBell> is that the kind of thing that we could get into Ubuntu somehow by default?
[15:46] <daubers> diplo: Thjink I sussed it
[15:46] <AlanBell> so that if you use flash it works
[15:47] <daubers> just waiting for it to output?
[15:47] <daubers> s/?/
[15:47] <diplo> Top man!!!
[15:47] <diplo> thanks for that
[15:47] <kjalil> AlanBell: I think I saw an Adobe page discussing this and saying it will be fixed soon? But that was a long time ago
[15:47] <AlanBell> adobe have abandoned Linux and flash in general
[15:48] <daubers> diplo: No probs. Just had to make it think of each scan as a picture taken with a perfect camera, and manually add the points it uses to do it's calcuulations
[15:48] <diplo> I tried that, and failed miserably :P
[15:48] <daubers> :p
[15:48] <daubers> http://hugin.sourceforge.net/tutorials/scans/en.shtml <- helped a bit
[15:48] <daubers> oh, and ignore the big photo from the set
[15:48] <daubers> otherwise it get's messy
[15:49] <diplo> the full one ?
[15:49] <daubers> yes
[15:49] <diplo> Sorry I put that in there for you for reference :)
[15:49] <daubers> :)
[15:50] <diplo> brb
[16:01] <diplo> daubers: Off home, will reconnect there
[16:01] <diplo> Cheers again
[16:01] <daubers> diplo: no probs, will take a little while to blend
[16:02] <diplo> ok :)
[16:02] <popey> Will it...
[16:06] <gord> well after a day or so of using it, the SIII has convinced me, some android phones don't suck
[16:08] <popey> lies!
[16:11] <gord> okay, one android phone :P
[16:14] <davmor2> popey: the s3 rocks
[16:14] <davmor2> popey: and it has maps that work too
[16:15]  * popey shrugs
[16:15] <gord> the quality of the google apps being much higher on android is what keeps me on there mostly
[16:15] <AlanBell> we were directed off a bridge by android maps this week
[16:15] <gord> even the ios 5 map app wasn't that great
[16:19] <ali1234> i agree. the google apps they make for other phones are rubbish. you are usually better off just using the web pages.
[16:25] <popey> G+ on iOS is way nicer than G+ on Android IMO
[16:25] <popey> probably the exception
[16:26] <MartijnVdS>  I love G+ on Android
[16:27] <gord> g+ on ipad is nice, i can't say if the iphone version is any different though
[16:27] <davmor2> I only use G+ on android I might use it more in quantal as a webapp but we'll see
[16:27] <jonathonf> i prefer the mobile web page to the android app...
[16:27] <gord> oh and the gallery in android 4 is great, because it connects to my picasa stuff in a sane way
[16:29] <ali1234> looks like the g+ on iphone still does that horrible thing where the post text is displayed on top of the post image?
[16:29] <davmor2> gord: g+ on the xoom is really nice
[16:32] <gord> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bwm20Dve3pM is plain beautiful on the big 720 amoled SIII screen as well, which is nice
[17:01] <popey> feeling peckish? https://twitter.com/burgerbeartom/status/255318258004135938
[17:03] <mgdm> blimey
[17:10] <Laney> http://www.beerfestival.nottinghamcamra.org/Beers_and_Breweries/2012_beer_list.xls
[17:11] <Laney> that's me tomorrow
[17:11] <Laney> yum yum
[17:28] <bootljhfdsds> Follow the White wabbit http://goo.gl/a5Qtp
[17:30] <popey> hmm?
[17:31] <bootljhfdsds> http://goo.gl/yFOzQ
[17:36] <Azelphur> does anyone know how to tell when BT Infinity will be hooked up for your area?
[17:36] <Azelphur> the coverage map says my exchange is activated, and I think there are areas near me that are activated
[17:36] <Azelphur> but my house isn't
[17:43] <jacobw> Azelphur: astrology
[17:46] <Azelphur> lol
[17:47] <davmor2> Azelphur: is there cable in your area already but not in the bit nearby?
[17:47] <Azelphur> yes
[17:48] <davmor2> Azelphur: then you might not get it fullstop
[17:48] <Azelphur> apparently they've wired the box up, but there's no power going to the box
[17:48] <Azelphur> \o/
[17:48] <davmor2> Azelphur: When I say cable I mean is there virginmedia cable in your area
[17:49] <Azelphur> davmor2: virgin? we're talking about BT Infinity
[17:49] <Azelphur> there's no virgin cable here (or anywhere near here)
[17:49] <davmor2> Azelphur: their argument is if an area has previously been cabled then there is not enough interest to warrant going there
[17:50] <Azelphur> ah, I see
[17:50] <Azelphur> then yea, we should get BT Infinity here, there's no virgin cable anywhere around here at all
[17:50] <Azelphur> not within 50+ miles
[17:50] <davmor2> Azelphur: in other words the cost outweighs the income
[17:51] <davmor2> Azelphur: inthat case they are probably just dragging their feet about it :D
[17:51] <Azelphur> indeed :)
[17:52] <gord> Azelphur, phone BT and tell them to fix it?
[17:53] <Azelphur> haha, could do
[17:54] <Azelphur> I keep seeing on forums that there's apparently a spreadsheet for it, but instead of linking the spreadsheet everyone just asks for a postcode and says the answer :@
[17:55] <Azelphur> oh I see, that's because it's a hacked stolen spreadsheet
[17:56] <ali1234> gord: nice one, i just bought that app
[17:57] <gord> ali1234, the live wallpaper thingy?
[17:57] <davmor2> Azelphur: at a mad guess have you thought about the BT website :D
[17:57] <ali1234> yeah
[17:57] <Azelphur> what app? I'm curious now :P
[17:57] <gord> yeah its nice
[17:57] <ali1234> it's really good but they could make it so much better
[17:57] <Azelphur> davmor2: yea, it says my exchange is activated, but my house isn't, and gives no time scales
[17:57] <ali1234> eg make the leaves shake if you shake the phone
[17:58] <ali1234> make it automatically follow day/night and seasons
[17:58] <ali1234> and make it automatically follow weather too
[17:58] <ali1234> the basic idea of photorealistic leaves... they've nailed that
[17:59] <gord> it does auto follow day/night
[17:59] <ali1234> oh? cool
[17:59] <gord> yeah if you enable it in the settings
[17:59] <ali1234> maybe they will add all this stuff eventually
[17:59] <ali1234> it runs really well on my galaxy S as well
[17:59] <Azelphur> aha, openreach has a cabinet checker, and it seems to have identified the correct cabinet
[18:00] <Azelphur> apparently "We're sorry but it’s taking us longer than planned to get your cabinet ready for service. Please bear with us."
[18:00] <Azelphur> :<
[18:00] <gord> yeah they cheat ;)
[18:01] <gord> the blurry leaves are just blurry looking textures, its not doing proper DOF, so its just a few quads really
[18:01] <Azelphur> why is it that I'm always unlucky with internet connections, in my old house we had virgin fibre at both ends of the street, but not actually in our street, and now I've moved down here, most of the area all around me is activated, just my cabinet isn't xD
[18:01] <ali1234> well, all 3d graphics is cheating tbh
[18:01] <gord> Azelphur, does it help you to know that i get 80mbit down from my fibre internet?
[18:01] <ali1234> even ray tracing has large amounts of cheating
[18:01] <Azelphur> gord: no :<
[18:01]  * Azelphur glares
[18:01] <gord> oh, well at least you know
[18:01] <Azelphur> xD
[18:02] <gord> downloading stuff got boring, now its just like, oh, its done, instantly. boooring
[18:02] <davmor2> gord: I know the feeling only having 60meg myself
[18:02] <ali1234> it's not "just" a few quads though... the leaves are 3d-ish, i'd say each leaf is at least 2 quads
[18:03] <ali1234> which means they could put physics objects on them and make them shakeable
[18:03] <davmor2> gord: however I think you'll find 4.5GB of game take a few minutes
[18:03] <gord> not that many
[18:03] <davmor2> Azelphur: does that help you out at all?
[18:04] <Azelphur> davmor2: it makes me hopeful for the future xD
[18:05] <davmor2> Azelphur: oh no in the future gord and myself will have a faster connection again probably :D
[18:05] <gord> i know i'm setting myself up for failure saying this, but 80mbit is probably enough ;)
[18:06] <gord> its enough to stream *two* bluray movies at once, i just need everyone else to get 80mbit so we can start getting services that actually use my bandwidth
[18:07] <davmor2> gord:  it's never fast enough
[18:07] <Azelphur> davmor2: fuuuu :p
[18:08] <ali1234> 2 blu-rays == one 3d blu-ray?
[18:08] <Azelphur> gord: I've been saying for years, as soon as the connections get fast enough for 2d video streaming, 3d will take off and we'll have all the same problems, again.
[18:08] <gord> y'know i've not checked, bluray tends to run at 25-30mbit for 2d
[18:12] <bootljhfdsds> Hey, not bad if you wanna have a IRC chat logger or something ... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230863360045&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:GB:1123
[18:15] <davmor2> popey: ^ I'm not going to say this is a spambot........but.........if the cap fits
[18:16] <popey> Eee900 "Wow"
[18:16] <popey> :)
[18:17] <mattt> woot
[18:17] <mattt> thought i was getting better
[18:17] <mattt> but i'm not
[18:17]  * mattt goes off to die
[18:35]  * jacobw reads mattt his rites
[18:36] <MartijnVdS> You have the rite to remain silent?
[18:36] <KnightHome> Hey guyz
[18:36] <jacobw> hi
[18:38] <popey> yo
[18:42] <KnightHome> popey
[18:42] <KnightHome> the episode is live , but we have some trouble with the feed at the moment
[18:42] <KnightHome> hope to have that fixed tonight
[18:42] <popey> uhoh
[18:44] <KnightHome> i think your awesomeness broke rss
[19:16] <ali1234> any recommendations for a simple issue tracker?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> RT!
[19:17]  * MartijnVdS runs
[19:17] <ali1234> what's RT?
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: request-tracker
[19:17] <jacobw> Request Tracker
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/
[19:17] <ali1234> it has to be a webpage
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> it is
[19:17] <popey> it is
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> it is also packaged.
[19:17] <popey> its the "de-facto" one everyone always suggests
[19:18] <popey> not necessarily the best, but the most well known
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> it's gotten a lot better in the last few years
[19:18] <ali1234> i need it to be extremely simple
[19:18] <popey> not the worst either :)
[19:18] <ali1234> more like a web based todo list
[19:18] <popey> trello
[19:18] <ali1234> but for 3 people
[19:18] <popey> for a web based to-do
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: google mail has a built-in todo list
[19:18] <MartijnVdS> oh.. for 3 people
[19:18] <ali1234> only one of the people will actually be closing tickets
[19:18] <ali1234> (me)
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> trac?
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> *shudder*
[19:19] <ali1234> god no
[19:19] <ali1234> NOOOOOO
[19:19] <ali1234> unfortunately trac is the only one i have any experience with
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> that's like zaying "zalgo" :)
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/zalgo
[19:19] <ali1234> i'm seriously considering gitlab
[19:19] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: bugzilla?
[19:20] <ali1234> NOOOO
[19:20] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: JIRA?
[19:20] <ali1234> i've never tried to run a bugzilla but i've used it enough to know it's not at all what i need
[19:20] <ali1234> JIRA is open source?
[19:20] <ali1234>  /free
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: http://www.roundup-tracker.org/ -- apt-cache search issue tracker finds me that
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it has a free trial
[19:21] <ali1234> if gitlab were written in python instead of ruby it would be a no brainer
[19:22] <ali1234> but i have zero knowledge of ruby, and whenever i look at ruby code it looks suspiciously like a slightly better formatted dialect of perl
[19:22] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's like the evil stepchild of Perl and Python to me
[19:23] <mgdm> well, it was heavily inspired by perl
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: so is PHP. See where that got us.
[19:23] <ali1234> i thought php was inspired by C
[19:23] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: it was inspired by Cthulhu's mutterings
[19:24] <ali1234> also one time i tried to install a ruby gem on ubuntu and it totally failed
[19:24] <ali1234> for a bogus reason
[19:24] <mgdm> if you're going to run ruby on ubuntu I find http://rvm.io makes it a lot simpler
[19:24] <mgdm> but it's not something I do a lot of
[19:25] <ali1234> is that like virtualenv?
[19:25] <mgdm> MartijnVdS: it got me a job, I'm not complaining
[19:25] <mgdm> ali1234: more to it than that - it installs its own self-compiled ruby from source
[19:25] <ali1234> hmm
[19:25] <ali1234> maybe gitlab has a ppa or something
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: so you're sure not to get security updates
[19:25] <MartijnVdS> mgdm: GOOD IDEA
[19:26] <ali1234> it's not like i need ruby for anything else at all
[19:27] <mgdm> nothing stops you updating it periodically
[19:27] <mgdm> it's not like I have apt-get upgrade in cron on my servers
[19:30] <mgdm> they do have that stupid 'one-line command to install' thing going on, though
[19:31] <ali1234> github has an installation shell script. it downloads a random ruby tarball and 'make install's it.
[19:32] <ali1234> that makes me not like it
[19:32] <mgdm> http://mgdm.net/weblog/why-one-line-installers-are-bad/
[19:32] <mgdm> there's loads of 'em
[19:32] <ali1234> it has an install guide to but it's just a commented version of the script
[19:32] <ali1234> basically it's the requirement to install loads of unmanaged deps that i don't like
[19:33] <mgdm> Even Bytemark do that
[19:33] <mgdm> which surprised me
[19:34] <Azelphur> is there any websites that document game releases that run on Linux / wine?
[19:34] <Azelphur> It'd be nice to perhaps find some good native games
[19:34] <d0od> Azelphur: The WINE website has a big database of what works (and what does;t)
[19:35] <Azelphur> d0od: yea, but it's a bit feeble, it lists a few things on the main page, and besides that your left going through heaps of desktop apps etc to weed out a game
[19:35] <Azelphur> oh duh, I bet desura can do this.
[19:35] <d0od> Azelphur: Oh really? Can't say I've ever had much reason to go through it, just know 'of' it
[19:35] <ali1234> tuxgames
[19:36] <ali1234> http://www.happypenguin.org/
[19:36] <ali1234> you're not going to find anything amazing though
[19:36] <Azelphur> aww :p
[19:36] <ali1234> pc games suck anyway
[19:37]  * Azelphur slaps
[19:38] <ali1234> get some emulators and start playing the classics
[19:39] <SuperEngineer> one word: MAME
[19:39] <ali1234> and UAE
[19:40] <SuperEngineer> ok - two words
[19:40] <ali1234> get UAE and zeewolf
[19:40] <ali1234> that's a brilliant game
[19:42] <ali1234> Azelphur: how many of these games have you played? : http://www.lemonamiga.com/games/votes_list.php
[19:44] <Azelphur> ali1234: 11
[19:44]  * Azelphur had an Amiga growing up
[19:44] <Azelphur> when I was about 4 or so I used to just sit there playing lemmings, hitting the nuke button continually and watching them explode, I always did find that hilarious.
[19:45] <Azelphur> :D
[19:45] <Azelphur> also how comes gauntlet isn't on that list
[19:45] <Azelphur> I believe the list is defective!
[19:46] <ali1234> gauntlet?
[19:46] <ali1234> because the amiga version was a rubbish port of the c64 version?
[19:46] <Azelphur> how do you not know gauntlet
[19:46] <Azelphur> BLASPHEMY
[19:47] <Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71zGo_V0kuE
[19:47] <Azelphur> I spent a lot of time on this :P
[19:47] <ali1234> there's no way it's in the top 100 though
[19:47] <ali1234> maybe if you removed duplicates
[19:48]  * Azelphur shrugs
[19:56] <SuperEngineer> Azelphur: I have the complete cheat sheet for lemmings - but don't use it, that would be cheating
[19:56] <Azelphur> lol
[19:56]  * d0od really wants to play lemmings now
[19:57]  * SuperEngineer foresees a LemmingsCamp happening at next years oggcamp
[19:57] <AlanBell> !info pingus
[19:57] <AlanBell> ^^ really quite good
[19:57] <popey> stoppit!
[19:57] <popey> I have work to do!
[19:58] <AlanBell> need to get an R-Type clone in the repos really
[19:59] <SuperEngineer> AlanBell: you may clear mind of doubt... I kmow "do" Pingus instead of Lemmings
[20:00] <SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... pingus.... repeat: must stop work & play instead
[20:13]  * popey hugs R-Type
[20:14] <popey> might have to get mine out of the loft
[20:42] <bigcalm_laptop> 3g via usb teather to router shared to my lan.  :P
[21:09] <popey> huzzah!
[21:09] <mgdm> see the (s), it's a plural ;-)
[21:12] <HDScorpio> Hello, anyone care to help me with a USB issue I have?
[21:20] <bigcalm> !ping
[21:20] <bigcalm> Oh, I'm back then?
[21:30] <mgdm> yarr.
[21:56] <AlanBell> o/ popey
[21:56] <popey> o/
[21:56] <AlanBell> want to see my kitchen with hacked camera UI?
[21:56] <popey> ooh
[21:56] <popey> gwan
[21:56] <AlanBell> http://ubingo.libertus.co.uk/cam/ it is totally dark in there
[21:56] <AlanBell> click to move the camera
[21:56] <popey> in return you can confirm bug 1065744
[21:57] <popey> hahaah
[21:57] <popey> i may be fighting with someone
[21:57] <bigcalm> Ghost in the machine ;)
[21:58] <popey> love it
[21:58] <popey> want one!
[21:58] <AlanBell> £35 \o/
[21:58] <AlanBell> and I will put the python web service thing up somewhere
[21:58] <bigcalm> Tis a very white kitchen
[21:59] <AlanBell> it is a white kitchen
[21:59] <AlanBell> I will turn the lights on now
[21:59] <bigcalm> Thought it was black and white
[21:59] <bigcalm> And you're all in white!
[21:59] <bigcalm> Spooky
[21:59] <AlanBell> that was the IR
[21:59] <bigcalm> Sweet
[22:00] <bigcalm> I might have to buy one of those now
[22:00] <AlanBell> I am very impressed with it
[22:00] <AlanBell> apart from the GPL violation
[22:00] <bigcalm> I thought it was a IE only interface
[22:00] <bigcalm> Oh, who takes the GPL seriously? :(
[22:00] <AlanBell> no, only the 2 way sound is IE only
[22:00] <bigcalm> Ah
[22:01] <AlanBell> there is an activeX control for that
[22:01] <AlanBell> I have not found what it actually pokes, but when I do I will probably get sound working
[22:01] <bigcalm> Very clever
[22:02] <AlanBell> popey: what browser is that using?
[22:02] <popey> chrome
[22:03] <popey> chromium too
[22:03] <AlanBell> not reproduced here
[22:03] <AlanBell> firefox or chromium
[22:04] <popey> reproduced what?
[22:04] <popey> oh, sorry
[22:04] <AlanBell> your bug
[22:04] <popey> firefox in that bug
[22:04] <AlanBell> ok, can't reproduce it
[22:04] <popey> wonder if it's a launchpad specific thing
[22:05] <popey> no, happens on G+ too
[22:05] <AlanBell> I was using the launchpad bug page to try to reproduce it
[22:05]  * czajkowski peers at the alans breaking LP
[22:05]  * AlanBell peers at czajkowski thinking we are breaking LP
[22:06] <AlanBell> popey is breaking his dash, I am reengineering webcam user interfaces
[22:07] <AlanBell> the camera can move diagonally too, I have only implemented left and right movements so far
[22:07] <AlanBell> but it is a lot more intuitive than the original control panel I think
[22:07] <AlanBell> and it works on my phone
[22:08] <bigcalm> Sleepy times :)
[22:11] <popey> time for bed.


[23:12] <nathwill> anybody looking for a sysadmin job?
[23:12] <nathwill> https://hire.jobvite.com/Jobvite/Job.aspx?m=nXNZokwW&j=oalVWfw6
[23:13] <nathwill> it's for Jive in PDX, they're a great place to work


[06:20] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[06:21] <lordievader> Good morning
[06:21] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/08/new-ubuntu-dock-first-look
[06:21] <lotuspsychje> yes!
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> they gonna fork dash to dock :p
[06:22] <lotuspsychje> morning lordievader
[06:22] <lordievader> Hey lotuspsychje, how are you doing?
[06:23] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: just waken, cuppa coffee and thunder/rain before work
[06:24] <lordievader> No rain here for a change.
[06:24] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: your on the train mate?
[06:25] <lordievader> Today, yes ;)
[06:26] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: you have 4g connection?
[06:27] <lordievader> Yes, and WiFi I'm the train.
[06:28] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: you drive it?
[06:29] <lordievader> ?
[06:29] <lordievader> What do you mean?
[06:30] <lordievader> I'm just commuting to Utrecht.
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: oh, thought you said i'm the train, (driving it) lol
[06:30] <lotuspsychje> my broter in law drives one
[06:31] <lordievader> Oh, autocorrect, that whoop of be WiFi in the train.
[06:31] <lordievader> Cool
[06:31] <lordievader> Should*
[07:34] <lotuspsychje> bbl
[09:38] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[09:41] <lordievader> Morning BluesKaj
[09:43] <BluesKaj> 'Morning lordievader
[09:47] <lordievader> How are you doing BluesKaj?
[09:50] <BluesKaj> well, thanks, lordievader, how about you?
[09:56] <lordievader> Doing good here :)
[16:22] <Bashing-om> Morn'n all . new kernel -92 and Firefox 55 on the streets for xenial .
[16:23] <Bashing-om> !info linix-image-generic xenial
[16:23] <Bashing-om> !info linux-image-generic xenial
[16:23] <Bashing-om> !info firefox xenial
[18:14] <EriC^^> evening all
[18:15] <Bashing-om> hey EriC^^ \o .
[18:16] <EriC^^> hey Bashing-om
[18:17] <Bashing-om> EriC^^: Loveerly rainy August day .. IRC with a clear conscious .
[18:18] <EriC^^> :)
[18:23] <oerheks> hi EriC^^ Bashing-om
[18:23] <EriC^^> hi oerheks
[18:24] <Bashing-om> oerheks: \0 . See that you are cranked up and going strong :)
[18:25] <oerheks> sure, i went 50 years today :-D
[18:26] <EriC^^> happy birthday :D
[18:26] <oerheks> something about abraham and mustard ..
[18:26] <Bashing-om> oerheks: Congrats and the best is yet to come :)
[18:27] <oerheks> and... Happy 20th Birthday, GNOME! http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/happy-20th-birthday-gnome-517406.shtml
[21:27]  * Bashing-om declares *nap time* :P


[05:14] <ybit> http://sprunge.us/Jccg
[05:15] <ybit> also i'm curious if it's possible to write plugins for the dash
[05:15] <ybit> er, is there an api for it rather
[05:16] <ybit> and i'm executing sudo pbuilder create --debootstrapopts --variant=buildd having not got a response from anyone
[05:16] <ybit> ..after already sudo pbuilder create executed sucessfully
[05:17] <ybit> -already
[05:28] <ybit> sudo pbuilder build *.dsc
[05:29] <ybit> that command tells pbuilder to build anything with a file ending with .dsc
[05:29] <ybit> are the dsc files removed after the build or install is successful?
[08:04] <hacked_kernel> Is there a channel for Ubuntu One dev?
[08:54] <nigelb> hacked_kernel: There's #ubuntuone if you haven't already seen it. Everyone's probably away for the holidays though.
[11:40] <sladen> Riddell: which "guy on #ubuntu-users" ?
[11:40] <sladen> Riddell: or literally <guy> ?
[12:25] <Riddell> sladen: mailing list
[16:30] <shnatsel> hello everyone
[16:31] <shnatsel> I'm trying to create custom seed file; I'm stuck at Germinate's "Task-Seeds: " key
[16:31] <shnatsel> it seems to duplicate the data in the STRUCTURE file
[16:32] <shnatsel> what shall I put there if my task depends on several other seed files from the same branch/dir?
[16:33] <shnatsel> "man germinate" says to refer to "man germinate-update-metapackage" which doesn't mention such keys
[17:03] <shnatsel> !logs
[17:41] <cjwatson> shnatsel: germinate-update-metapackage(1) *does* document Task-Seeds.
[17:41] <cjwatson> Albeit obliquely.
[17:42] <cjwatson> shnatsel: And no, that header does not duplicate the inheritance data in STRUCTURE.
[17:42] <cjwatson> shnatsel: Task-Seeds says that, in addition to this seed, the packages listed directly in the specified additional seeds should also be added as Depends/Recommends of the metapackage generated from this seed.
[17:43] <shnatsel> cjwatson: wow, glad to see you here! :D
[17:43] <cjwatson> shnatsel: If specified, this would normally be only a subset of the full inheritance of the seed.
[17:43] <shnatsel> cjwatson: ah, sorry, found it
[17:43] <cjwatson> shnatsel: In general it is perfectly fine to omit that header.   Thank you so much for creating it and answering my stupid questions!
[18:49] <cjwatson> shnatsel: That's OK - feel free to file bugs about documentation inadequacies, as ever
[18:50] <cjwatson> shnatsel: (And, for completeness, I didn't actually create it originally, I've just been the victim who ended up maintaining it for seven years :-) )
[18:50] <cjwatson> Although it's barely recognisable from the original nowadays ...
[18:51] <shnatsel> cjwatson: oh yeah, I know that feeling... I've inherited an ISO build script, I'm trying to get rid of it all the time but I always end up rewriting it
[18:52] <shnatsel> the latest (third) rewrite uses seeds


[09:41] <Fudge> hi in regards to tbird 7.0 crashing when mails deleted when using gnome-orca, 7.0.1 is doing same thing but has not been as frequent. I actually thought it was fixed till now. Crash ID: bp-0f0ce788-1750-44c5-b0a0-c79462111031
[16:16] <gnomefreak> WARNING!!!  Version: 10.0~a1~hg20111027r79297-0ubuntu1~umd1
[16:16] <gnomefreak> s/-runk/trunk
[17:17] <FernandoMiguel> guud afternoon
[19:23] <m_conley> chrisccoulson: hey!  I hope UDS is going well so far.  bwinton and I will be there tomorrow in the afternoon!
[20:25] <gnomefreak> anyway to export bookmarks in ff-trunk?
[20:25] <gnomefreak> nevermind i found it
[20:26] <gnomefreak> i hate that the controls are not attached to the app