[00:41] <gamerchick02> hey cmaloney, how loud are the MX Cherry Black switches?
[00:42] <gamerchick02> or even rick_h_
[00:42] <cmaloney> They're a little quieter than the browns.
[00:42] <gamerchick02> i'm looking to get a decent keyboard for work and i don't want to scare people away with a super loud one (blues are right out unless i put massive 0rings on them)
[00:43] <gamerchick02> oooo
[00:43] <cmaloney> I can lightly tap on them
[00:43] <gamerchick02> the browns aren't too loud i don't think
[00:43] <cmaloney> They're still pretty loud.
[00:43] <gamerchick02> you like the smooth actuation on them
[00:43] <cmaloney> But my co-workers haven't strung me up yet.
[00:43] <gamerchick02> how close are they sitting? i'm in a 4-man cube.
[00:43] <cmaloney> yeah, although they require a heavy touch
[00:43] <cmaloney> Much like playing a piano
[00:43] <gamerchick02> so they're a lot heavier than the browns.
[00:43] <cmaloney> Yep
[00:43] <gamerchick02> oh no
[00:44] <gamerchick02> maybe i should stick with browns then
[00:44] <cmaloney> Actually, not a Piano.  I just opened all the same tabs in Chrome and it's under 200k
[12:50] <cmaloney> Good morning
[12:50] <wolfger> OMG. I thought Dilbert was just making this up, but apparently "holacracy" is a real thing (for some value of "real"). http://holacracy.org/how-it-works
[12:50] <cmaloney> wolfger: Which version of FF? I think there's a difference in how they distribute their memory requirements.
[12:51] <cmaloney> ie: Chrome is per-process per tab vs. Firefox's monolithic approach
[12:51] <cmaloney> wolfger: Yeah, I'm not sure how to take that holacracy
[12:51] <cmaloney> On the one hand I think structures in business can be overdefined and strangling
[12:52] <cmaloney> on the other hand it has a feel of "we're empowered but I write the checks"
[12:54] <wolfger> When I first saw the word, I was thinking there was a "holla-back" joke coming. I'm still not sure there isn't one. :-D
[12:55] <rick_h_> morning
[12:55] <wolfger> FF 27.0.1 vs Chrome 33.0.1750.146 m
[12:55] <wolfger> m for mobile? I dunno
[12:56] <wolfger> Yes, Chrome has multiple processes even for a single tab, which is annoying. Still, if I total all the processes up, Chrome is still using about 150k to 200k less than FF
[12:57] <rick_h_> are we seriously taking 200K of ram?
[12:57] <wolfger> sorry... 200 thousand k
[12:57] <wolfger> it's 200k of k-ram
[12:57] <wolfger> :-p
[12:59] <wolfger> My laptop has been feeling sluggish lately, and I'm trying to find a culprit.  That's with lxc containers, etc. Maybe you need a new window manager :P
[13:04] <wolfger> Hah.
[13:05] <wolfger> Yeah, I have way more ram than I'm consuming (6GB)
[13:05] <wolfger> so I'm sure my problem is elsewhere.
[13:05] <rick_h_> "268M awesome"
[13:06] <rick_h_> ssd?
[13:20] <cmaloney> You might want to also check dmesg. There may be a problem.
[13:41] <brousch> I got 2 Acer chromebooks. The C710 is older, but I can upgrade it to 16GB RAM and a laptop HD or SSD. The c720 is newer, has 4GB RAM soldered on, and uses a funky type of SSD
[13:42] <brousch> Most c720s only have 2GB RAM soldered on. The 4GB can only be found second hand and costs $100 more than the 2GB
[14:36] <jrwren> i'm reading the log from yesterday. this carplay looks awesome.
[14:39] <jrwren> i've never had a computer with 16GB of ram. I should get one, just for the heck of it.
[14:42] <brousch> It's funny that a Chromebook is my first computer that supports it
[14:43] <brousch> Hm, I could put 16GB of RAM on this computer with a 16GB SSD
[14:47] <jrwren> its kinda crazy.
[14:47] <jrwren> what uses memory on a chromebook?
[14:47] <jrwren> or is it just so you can have 1000 tabs open?
[14:47] <jrwren> does a chromebook run android apps or something?
[14:51] <brousch> 2GB is just enough to run my usual 10 tabs
[14:51] <mrgoodcat> 2GB is fine for me
[14:51] <brousch> 4GB gives me room to install Ubuntu via Crouton and run Minecraft
[14:51] <jrwren> i think i only have 4GB on this mac.
[14:51] <jrwren> yup, and it is fine as long as I don't want to run VMs
[14:52] <brousch> This is not dual boot, this is Xubuntu in a chroot
[14:52] <mrgoodcat> i could never run vm
[14:52] <jrwren> so 16GB...  I know me some pythons.  I am interested in bookie
[14:58] <brousch> Using it for development would suck due to the low res screen
[14:58] <brousch> jrwren: You're not a student!
[14:59] <jrwren> brousch: i'll always be a student of life and of rick_h_
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> enroll in online university
[14:59] <jrwren> i'm taking stanford u online freebee courses.
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> university of phoenix
[14:59] <jrwren> no, they are evil.
[14:59] <mrgoodcat> lol
[15:00] <mrgoodcat> t'was a joke anyways
[15:00] <jrwren> i know :)
[15:00] <ColonelPanic001> hi Klaudioh
[15:00] <jrwren> but seriously, hte level of evil of oracle, google, apple, microsoft is a fraction compared to the evil of hte phoenix u
[15:00] <greg-g> hah
[15:01] <Klaudioh> hello
[15:03] <cmaloney> HI Klaudioh
[15:03] <cmaloney> Udacity and Coursera are my classrooms of Choice
[15:03] <cmaloney> Though I'm taking a course at Udemy for Game Design.
[15:04] <Klaudioh> I love Coursera
[15:04] <ColonelPanic001> I'm doing a Coursera course now
[15:04] <ColonelPanic001> but it's in Nutrition
[15:05] <ColonelPanic001> not computery stuff
[15:05] <cmaloney> That's fine
[15:05] <ColonelPanic001> but now I know how malnurished I am
[15:05] <cmaloney> whatever floats your boar.
[15:05] <cmaloney> (I'm not admitting that was a typo)
[15:05] <ColonelPanic001> everyone: Klaudioh is a WSU student / student employee in our group with me and _stink_ and etc. Klaudioh: This is everyone. cmaloney is the guy I told you does the creative-commons metal podcast
[15:06] <ColonelPanic001> cmaloney: I was hoping it wasn't.
[15:06] <cmaloney> :)
[15:06] <cmaloney> New episode release yesterday.
[15:06] <Klaudioh> haha thanks for introducing me and it's nice to meet you all =]
[15:06] <cmaloney> Klaudioh: Welcome to our little corner of the Internet.
[15:07] <ColonelPanic001> I have to get caught up on OMC. Arg. On the other hand, I have tons of it waiting for me, so there's a silver lining.
[15:08] <cmaloney> Episode 90 is a double-decker.
[15:09] <ColonelPanic001> just skip the upper deckers.
[15:10] <jrwren> Klaudioh: my condolences.
[15:11] <Klaudioh> hahaha
[15:12] <greg-g> so, gnutls
[15:12] <jrwren> greg-g: i like openssl :)
[15:12] <greg-g> :P
[15:12] <jrwren> i feel it gets a bad rep.
[15:12] <greg-g> from openssl's changelog "Make openssl verify return errors." heh
[15:12] <greg-g> https://www.openssl.org/news/changelog.html
[15:13] <greg-g> the gnutls advisory, for those who don't know: http://www.gnutls.org/security.html#GNUTLS-SA-2014-2
[15:13] <brousch> jrwren: Really? I didn't know Phoenix was evil
[15:13] <greg-g> very
[15:15] <jrwren> greg-g: in what ways are gnutls important to you?
[15:18] <cmaloney> SSL + TLS more than likely?
[15:20] <greg-g> jrwren: I don't know, it isn't installed on my laptop
[15:25] <greg-g> lol: https://twitter.com/danbarker/status/439125570115223552
[15:26] <jrwren> that is the thing, its rarely used.
[15:26] <jrwren> the only place I have to use gnutls is pycurl is linked against it :(
[15:27] <jrwren> i should say, pycurl in ubuntu.  pycurl itself can build against either
[15:27] <jrwren> but I feel like i worked around that.
[15:29] <cmaloney> greg-g: hah
[15:48] <rick_h_> jrwren: lol, I'll help you polish up your application
[17:05] <rick_h_> very cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umuNhpass4Y&feature=youtu.be mrgoodcat
[17:05] <rick_h_> from https://plus.google.com/104358235952874475094/posts/cPmZofCRSA3
[17:23] <jrwren> lol @ camera up to the screen.
[17:24] <jrwren> maybe they need a screencap program for mir next.
[17:31] <rick_h_> hard to do touch based like that
[17:31] <rick_h_> I guess if you do something where it highlights touch points and such you can do something
[17:39] <jrwren> yes, i didn't see the touch yet
[17:43] <cmaloney> http://www.theverge.com/2014/3/3/5465264/microsoft-cortana-windows-phone-screenshots
[17:44] <cmaloney> Why do I see the following scenario:
[17:44] <cmaloney> "Cortana: where did I park my car?"
[17:45] <cmaloney> "There are 4 car dealerships in the area with 4 or better stars on Yelp"
[17:45] <cmaloney> "Cortana: No, where is my car?"
[17:45] <rick_h_> Cortana?! I mean really? They couldn't think of a better name?
[17:45] <cmaloney> "Do you need towing assistance?"

[17:46] <cmaloney> "Cortana: How much is a new Android Phone?"
[17:47] <cmaloney> "Let me check Google. One moment..."
[17:50] <ColonelPanic001> heh
[17:51] <greg-g> man, that soundtrack for that mir+chrome video is over the top :)
[17:53] <jrwren> jeeves is taken.
[17:53] <jrwren> who is the butler from Batman?
[17:54] <cmaloney> Alfred. Taken.
[17:54] <cmaloney> And since they own Halo it makes sense.
[17:54] <jrwren> I think they could have bought it. The mac program is basically obsolete.
[17:54] <cmaloney> Don't have to worry about some estate coming in to claim naming rights.
[17:55] <jrwren> Cortana is just meh bad.  I'd have prefered Clippy.
[17:55] <cmaloney> and more importantly, back royalties.
[17:55] <jrwren> "Clippy: where did I park my car?"

[17:59] <cmaloney> jrwren: "Here are some hangover remedies: eggs, water, shotgun"
[18:13] <cmaloney> greg-g: APC = ?
[18:14] <jrwren> a perfect circle?
[18:14] <cmaloney> jrwren: Yeah no.
[18:15] <cmaloney> greg-g: average propensity to consumption?
[18:19] <jrwren> american power company?
[18:20] <greg-g> cmaloney: jrwren "Article Processing Fee"
[18:22] <jrwren> https://gist.github.com/DavyLandman/9351416
[18:22] <jrwren> so cool.
[18:23] <jrwren> maybe not as powerful or flexible, but its far more readable than the sslh beast :) https://github.com/yrutschle/sslh/blob/master/sslh-main.c
[18:45] <cmaloney> greg-g: That's crazy
[18:46] <greg-g> cmaloney: yep.
[18:57] <mrgoodcat> rick_h_: cool video. can't wait until i get to try it
[19:02] <waf> haha, i have a coworker who is discovering the joys of Eclipse (the ide)
[19:02] <waf> normally, he curses very rarely
[19:03] <rick_h_> waf: lol
[19:03] <waf> but he just sent out this email `It is slow.   And when I whined about it. I was told: "Yeah. It does that." Fuck.`
[19:03] <rick_h_> I had someone come into #bookie "How do I get bookie to work with eclipse?"
[19:03] <rick_h_> I ran away
[19:04] <waf> i spent the last year or so on eclipse, so there's a bit of schadenfreude going on here.
[19:07] <brousch> Eclipse is awesome. Eclipse is the best.
[19:16] <jrwren> hahahahaha.
[19:25] <jrwren> omg, django middleware is simple. I had no idea it was so simple
[19:26] <waf> is it just a chain of interceptors? or is it something different?
[19:26] <jrwren> yes, I guess that is all it is.
[19:27] <jrwren> only a single member method to implement.
[19:27] <waf> i always kinda treated django middleware as opaque magic
[19:28] <cmaloney> waf: Same here.
[19:28] <waf> then i looked into clojure a bit, and realized that really everything is just functions all the way down
[19:28] <jrwren> that is true... always
[19:28] <cmaloney> I need to get into the habit of looking more at Python sourcecode.
[19:28] <cmaloney> because a) it's sourcecode, and b) documentation can lie. :)
[19:29] <cmaloney> That and it's kinda neat to see what folks are doing.
[19:30] <jrwren> that is true of every language, not just python
[19:33] <cmaloney> Right, but it's distressing to me that I don't take advantage of it more
[19:33] <jrwren> it should be!
[19:34] <cmaloney> since Python doesn't directly rely on things like .class or .o crap (.pyc files notwithstanding but they're usally accompanied by the .py files)
[19:39] <jrwren> cmaloney: that is a sentence fragment and not a complete thought. What did you mean to say?
[19:41] <waf> made sense to me. he's just saying that python library code is super-accessible
[19:42] <cmaloney> what waf parsed. ;)
[19:42] <jrwren> I didn't read it as a continuation. My bad.
[19:44] <cmaloney> np
[19:47] <jrwren> i don't care what anyone says, python ain't so bad and is downright great!
[19:48] <rick_h_> until it pisses us off with some issue and then it sucks!
[19:55] <jrwren> truth!
[19:55] <jrwren> but today, I love it :)
[20:15] <jrwren> python's thread docs suggest that maybe I should not use it and prefer threading? is this true?
[20:18] <jrwren> i really just want start_new_thread(lambda _,__: ..., (None,None))
[20:19] <rick_h_> heh, threads are ok as long as it's within reason. Quickly you go to multi process module instead
[20:19] <jrwren> its all IO bound
[20:19] <jrwren> i'm asking more about thread module v. threading module
[20:20] <rick_h_> oh, yea, didn't thread get deprecated?
[20:20] <rick_h_> go get http://pythonhosted.org//futures/
[20:20] <rick_h_> the backported module from py3.2
[20:21] <rick_h_> <3
[20:30] <jrwren> that is exactly what I want.
[20:30] <rick_h_> cool
[20:31] <jrwren>  ThreadPoolExecutor().submit(lambda: cache.set('a', long_running_thing()))
[20:39] <jrwren> someone should just make a pypi to ubuntu repo system.
[20:55] <widox> anyone going to KalamazooX this year? http://kalamazoox.org/
[20:56] <rick_h_> no, I always get tempted as it seems cool
[20:56] <widox> I feel like someone went last year...
[20:56] <jrwren> me.
[20:56] <jrwren> yes, I plan to go.
[20:58] <widox> jrwren: ah ok. must be good then for a return visit
[20:58] <jrwren> i liked it.
[20:59] <jrwren> waf was there too IIRC
[20:59] <greg-g> looks cool
[21:00] <greg-g> the videos from last year make it look small
[21:00] <jrwren> i should have been at every one. I've know Mike for many years, but it is often on the weekend of my daughters birthday.
[21:00] <jrwren> it is small. its single track.
[21:00] <jrwren> 100ish people.
[21:01] <greg-g> cool
[21:01] <widox> yeah, that's what I was guessing looknig at the pictures from last year
[21:01] <widox> I like the concept
[21:01] <greg-g> ditto
[21:02] <widox> and, only $50!
[21:03] <ColonelPanic001> Kalamazooks
[21:03] <jrwren> and last year was awesome because github sponsored an open bar at bells after the conference.
[21:04] <jrwren> i was sad I had to drive back to AA at a reasonable hour :)
[21:07] <brousch> jrwren: I've not been there, but the topics seem useless
[21:07] <brousch> Non-technical
[21:10] <widox> brousch: haha. did you read the goal of the conf on the main page?
[21:11] <brousch> widox: Yes. Seems useless
[21:11] <greg-g> "who needs soft skills" says the anthropology undergrad major
[21:11] <greg-g> :P
[21:11] <brousch> Exactly
[21:25] <jrwren> lol @ useles.
[21:25] <jrwren> mental note: never hire brousch
[21:25] <greg-g> lol
[21:25] <jrwren> 'cept I can't really lol, cuz it is really just sad.
[21:25] <jrwren> *sad trombone*
[21:26] <greg-g> rick_h_: you might be interested in this conversation: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Project_management_tools/Review/Options
[21:27] <greg-g> also, it's happening on our public "team practices" which we've explicitly invited other non-WMF people to: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/teampractices
[21:27] <greg-g> (people from Mozilla and Red Hat and a few other places are on there now)
[21:28] <jrwren> no review board?
[21:28] <jrwren> damn, how many devs to WMF have?
[21:29] <greg-g> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Staff?showall=1
[21:29] <greg-g> I dind't know of review board
[21:30] <jrwren> cool page.
[21:30] <jrwren> well, now you know of reviewboard. I like it.
[21:30] <greg-g> cool
[21:30] <jrwren> rbtools is a nice python package for talking too it too.
[21:31] <rick_h_> reviewboard is cool, I keep wanting to use it for something. Tried to get it into morpace
[21:31] <rick_h_> greg-g: looking
[21:32] <greg-g> huh
[21:33] <rick_h_> huh what?
[21:33] <greg-g> not as clean of a ui as gerrit, it appears to me
[21:33] <greg-g> (review board)
[21:33] <rick_h_> python based, django so easy to hack and support
[21:33] <greg-g> huh was "that's two recommendations for it"
[21:33] <rick_h_> I've not used gerrit though
[21:33] <rick_h_> I've tracked reviewboard dev for a while though
[21:33] <rick_h_> we just end up using LP, then reitveld, then github
[21:34] <rick_h_> I think it's a good active project and being django based it's flexible and easy for my head to get around for the most part.
[21:34]  * greg-g nods
[21:35] <rick_h_> gerrit always seemed more complex, java, etc
[21:35] <greg-g> yeah
[21:35] <greg-g> we want to get away from it
[21:35] <rick_h_> and the few links I've seen to reviews on gerrit I've not found the UX great
[21:35] <greg-g> we're looking at Phabricator
[21:35] <greg-g> well, a few of us are
[21:35] <greg-g> this page represents the bigger org-wide discussion
[21:35] <rick_h_> wow, well not looked at that in a long long time
[21:36] <greg-g> we didn't either, it wasn't ready when we first looked (didn't support pre-commit review...)
[21:36] <rick_h_> yea, that's the biggest thing is wiring it up with CI, for all these tools
[21:36] <rick_h_> we had to write up our own tool to use github in a decent way
[21:37] <greg-g> yeah
[21:37] <greg-g> we won't use github, for a lot of reasons :)
[21:37] <greg-g> (see the talk page)
[21:37] <rick_h_> yea, understood
[21:39] <rick_h_> check out stridercd for CI as well. It's small but seems cool if you're into nodejs stuff.
[21:40] <rick_h_> I started to look at it, but we've got a lot more jenkins know-how internally
[21:41] <greg-g> yeah, same here (re internal knowledge)
[21:41] <rick_h_> I just wish it had a better backup/restore story
[21:41] <greg-g> huh
[21:41] <jrwren> greg-g: you are nuts!  gerrit is vomit compared to review board.
[21:42] <rick_h_> hand editing fields in a UI for setting up and such is a PITA!
[21:42] <jrwren> gerrit is a large part of the reason I cannot contribute to openstack.  it is simply too complex.
[21:42] <greg-g> jrwren: that demo instance looks too ugly to me, gerrit is much clearn (ie: not full of bright colors)
[21:42] <jrwren> reviewboard is nice and simple.
[21:42] <greg-g> yeah, it's a pain
[21:43] <rick_h_> I setup a reviewboard instance back at morpace and it's wasn't bad. It's definitely worse in that demo because all the data is in the stale alarm state.
[21:43] <rick_h_> I'd expect most of your stuff to not be months old and red
[21:43] <rick_h_> and it's django so easy to customize the design/templates :)
[21:43] <rick_h_> once you get past the awful django templates
[21:43] <jrwren> its django? ha! i had no idea.
[21:44] <rick_h_> yea
[21:44] <jrwren> oh come on now... its not aweful. it just jinja2 lite.
[21:44] <greg-g> :)
[21:44] <rick_h_> yea, awful
[21:45] <jrwren> greg-g: really? no gnutls for you?  on ubuntu its linked to libcups2 and libgnome and libgnomevfs :(
[21:45] <greg-g> jrwren: I was wrong
[21:45] <greg-g> I looked at gnutls-bin, not libgnutls26
[21:46] <jrwren> oh, NOW i see your follow up tweet :)
[21:46] <greg-g> :)
[21:46] <jrwren> hey, I liked your first tweet too. it prompted me to check for myself :)
[21:46] <greg-g> :)
[21:46] <greg-g> a learning experience for everyone
[21:47] <rick_h_> greg-g: cool though, we should do a lococast with cmaloney and chat about tooling and such like that at some point.
[21:48] <rick_h_> greg-g: would be cool to share the thoughts/process you guys used and what not
[21:48] <greg-g> definitely!


[03:23] <ljp> well... at least it's not ad spam
[12:24] <cjwatson> mitya57: no need to do manual uploads for s390x bootstrapping - please ask me or Adam Conrad, we can inject staged builds as build-deps
[12:51] <cjwatson> mitya57: (though thanks for the bootstrapping effort!)
[16:49] <mitya57> cjwatson: No problems. Btw are you able to retry autopkgtests by chance?
[16:50] <mitya57> (what I need is http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/t/tracker/xenial/i386/ which is clearly a random failure)
[16:56] <mitya57> cjwatson: Also, what exactly did you mean by "staged builds"? In this tracker/nautilus case there was a circular b-d which I broke by building a nautilus without tracker in a silo, then building tracker against that and copying the binaries.
[17:00] <mitya57> Should I have just pinged you with a link to nautilus silo in this case?
[20:18] <cjwatson> mitya57: Looks like somebody's done the tracker test, but yes, I can do it
[20:19] <mitya57> Yes, I just received the mails about the migration. \o/
[20:19] <cjwatson> mitya57: What we normally do is inject build-dependencies into a bootstrap archive used by LP builds; would've saved the trouble of the tracker upload.  No big deal in this case but it leaves a bit less in the way of debris in the archive
[20:20] <mitya57> Ok, next time I'll know that. Thanks!
[20:20] <mitya57> And btw I committed a fix to the Debian svn for nautilus to build without tracker support on stage1, which should make next bootstrappings easier.
[20:26] <cjwatson> mitya57: Right, we don't currently make use of that automatically, but it's definitely a valuable hint to humans doing the work and it typically speeds things up.


[00:09] <Seeker`> ali1234, signal booster 'fixes' my nova-t 500
[00:18] <bootkigftrgds> Just watching the action Linux Show 'bout Übuntu Phone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=33GiecW1E-4#!
[00:18] <bootkigftrgds> sorry Linux Action Show I meant.
[00:20] <bootkigftrgds> dwatkins:  The dalek post was aewsome .. I laughed out loud !!
[00:20] <bootkigftrgds> **awesome
[00:22] <Azelphur> Operation ikea galant megadesk complete https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pjwb9qwf4wfnz3/2013-01-15%2000.12.29.jpg
[00:22] <Azelphur> one coffee table was harmed during the making (it was cannibalised for parts, it will be missed.)
[00:26] <daftykins> Azelphur: good work ^_^
[00:26] <daftykins> those diagonal legs would cause me to be screaming in pain before too long i sense
[00:27] <Azelphur> nah, they don't come out from under the table
[00:28] <daftykins> ah
[00:28] <daftykins> your place's tubes come yet?
[00:28] <Azelphur> tubes?
[00:28] <Azelphur> oh internet, no
[00:28] <Azelphur> not till feb :(
[00:29] <daftykins> ah ye =[
[00:34] <Seeker`> Azelphur, thats a lot of desk space
[00:34] <Azelphur> indeed
[00:34] <Seeker`> Azelphur, just how much space do you need to blow up arduinos?
[00:34] <Azelphur> Seeker`: lots, haha
[00:35] <daftykins> where else do you stack the dead parts? bins are too small
[00:37] <Azelphur> shh :p
[00:37] <Azelphur> I don't kill most of my things :(
[00:38] <Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/c6d1t5pbugxfc67/2013-01-15%2000.36.38.jpg is my hack involving coffee table legs
[00:39] <Azelphur> that panel is supposed to have legs on the right where that place is
[00:39] <Azelphur> but instead I used coffee table legs to attach it to the desk right next to it, that does have legs
[00:39] <Azelphur> xD
[00:39] <Azelphur> hopefully it won't fail.
[00:40] <daftykins> Azelphur: sorry i didn't even know about this, i just joined in :<
[00:40] <Azelphur> daftykins: hehe, yea I have a rep for breaking everything, although I usually break software ;)
[00:40] <daftykins> :D
[00:41] <daftykins> i got shipped an internal matrix orbital LCD display once, that had the serial cable wired wrong
[00:41] <daftykins> it caught fire in the bottom of my case 8D
[00:41] <Azelphur> meep o.O
[00:41] <daftykins> i email'd and said, hai guys, um, it kinda burnt?
[00:43] <Seeker> daftykins: a long long time ago, every time Azelphur plugged an arduino in to his computer, it stopped working
[00:43] <daftykins> XD
[00:43] <Azelphur> yea lol
[00:43] <daftykins> so, last year? :>
[00:43] <Azelphur> I never did get it to work
[00:43] <Seeker> completely killed it
[00:44] <Azelphur> I don't think it's actually dead
[00:44] <Azelphur> I think it just hates my PC.
[00:44] <Azelphur> I had them ship me a replacement out, and they said the one they got back worked fine, and the new one I got didn't work in exactly the same manner
[00:44] <Azelphur> so, I call software issues xD
[00:44] <Azelphur> either that or my PC asplodes arduinos.
[00:45] <daftykins> :D
[00:46] <daftykins> hate it when that happens
[00:46] <daftykins> you need a second less-attacked PC for such times ;)
[00:46] <daftykins> at least now you have a victim next door to demand things of :D
[00:49] <directhex> 7 new games saw the first stages of being added to steam for linux today
[00:49] <popey> yay
[00:49] <popey> which ones?
[00:50] <Azelphur> daftykins: hehe
[00:51] <Azelphur> oO, new games
[00:51] <directhex> not sure, i haven't kept a log of that kind of data. X3 is new. so is Lume. and Shank 2.
[00:53] <directhex> some other odds & sods added recently. spacechem dlc; various dedicated server apps
[00:53] <daftykins> the army grows
[00:54] <bootkigftrgds> I got Empathy to load up on my Lubuntu netbook, but when I ask it to load 'an account' it just ges to system setting .. what am I doing wrong ?
[00:55] <bootkigftrgds> **goes..
[00:59] <bootkigftrgds> Is everyone in Pillow land ??
[01:00] <daftykins> some are alive, not sure if they have seen your Q though
[01:01] <bootkigftrgds> ok . np
[01:02] <bootkigftrgds> same half a dozen ppl anyway ...
[01:03] <daftykins> indeedy
[01:03] <daftykins> not a great time for UK either
[01:11] <bootkigftrgds> daftykins: how so , oh you mean time-wise.. here in IOM its Hagen daz time :)
[01:11] <daftykins> XD
[01:11] <daftykins> gimme!
[01:11] <bootkigftrgds> no , its mine !!
[01:11] <daftykins> D:
[01:11] <bootkigftrgds> it's not Terry either !!
[01:11] <bootkigftrgds> **Terry's
[01:11] <bootkigftrgds> does anyone actually live in Brixton .. thought it was just a prison ::  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLAG_Linux_and_GNU
[01:11] <daftykins> only time friends have passed through there for gigs, they've been mugged \o/
[01:12] <bootkigftrgds> last time I was mugged .. I had a mocha ^_^
[01:12] <bootkigftrgds> Are you the guy from Guernsey ?/
[01:13] <daftykins> yes sir-ee
[01:14] <bootkigftrgds> oh great, yeah, i talked to ou last week (solarcloud0 .. on pidgin as my other one crashed ..
[01:14] <bootkigftrgds> **you
[01:15] <bootkigftrgds> soz, fag in hand, little attentin span atmo.
[01:15] <bootkigftrgds> **attention
[01:15] <daftykins> lolz
[01:15] <daftykins> ah yeah, i thought i didn't know this nick :>
[01:16] <daftykins> anywho bbs, gonna put some food on
[01:16] <bootkigftrgds> cant wait till TPB - AFK coes out .. seeya
[02:31] <bootkigftrgds> Quick question : When's the next ubuntu uk podcast ?? (this month ??)
[02:34] <popey> bootkigftrgds: dunno actually
[02:34] <popey> we take a break over xmas and usually start in feb
[02:35] <popey> we tend to go out for a curry to decide what we're going to do the same/differently
[02:35] <bootkigftrgds> damn. you doing the graveyard again ?
[02:35] <popey> graveyard?
[02:36] <bootkigftrgds> Well my point would be to add a answering machine to the skype phone for the channel (free) and also flatter so I can fund it/you.
[02:36] <bootkigftrgds> **flattr
[02:36] <bootkigftrgds> meant graveyard-shift.
[02:37] <popey> no, I'm in California
[02:38] <bootkigftrgds> Wow, I'm sure I can hear highway 1 in the background !!
[02:39]  * bootkigftrgds wonders if popey has seen any lost boys ?
[02:40] <bootkigftrgds> right this is serious ,::: We will definitely need a pic of you in Bermuda shorts :)
[02:41] <Azelphur> popey: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1pjwb9qwf4wfnz3/2013-01-15%2000.12.29.jpg ;)
[02:42] <popey> finally Azelphur ☺
[02:42] <Azelphur> indeed :D
[02:42] <Azelphur> I kinda had to cannibalise a coffee table to make it work.
[02:42] <Azelphur> but, it works \o/
[02:43] <bootkigftrgds> popey, did you bring the inflatable beach ball too ??
[02:44] <bootkigftrgds> Azelphur: What graphics card are you using ??
[02:44] <Azelphur> bootkigftrgds: GTX 570 + GT 630
[02:44] <bootkigftrgds> so the screens just work outta the box ??
[02:45] <Azelphur> no.
[02:45] <Azelphur> if your going multi screen get an ATI card
[02:45] <bootkigftrgds> Azelphur .. what tweaks did you do ?
[02:46] <Azelphur> bootkigftrgds: nvidia deliberately brick multi monitor support on Linux, the only way it works is with separate X screens, which is buggy, and generally crap.
[02:46] <Azelphur> get ATI cards, it works much better I hear.
[02:46] <Azelphur> I'm planning on switching at some point.
[02:47] <bootkigftrgds> you just need my carpet office mat from Viking, that's all.
[02:47] <bootkigftrgds> or do you stay in one place ??
[02:47] <Azelphur> carpet office mat? :p
[02:47] <Azelphur> I stay in one place pretty much
[02:48] <bootkigftrgds> mmm..  :D
[09:12] <Azelphur> whats the general opinion on how long I should leave a freezer standing after being transported? It's a reasonably new freezer (I think it came out sometime in 2011), LEC u5526w (manufacturer conveniently has no way to get the manual)
[09:12] <diplo> Thought it was like 2 hours from memory
[09:12] <knightwise> 24 hours
[09:12] <diplo> Could be wrong, I always used to leave it over night though
[09:12] <knightwise> to make sure.
[09:12] <Azelphur> ^ welcome to the responses I find online haha
[09:12] <knightwise> diplo: same her
[09:12] <knightwise> e
[09:12] <Azelphur> 2...no 24...no 48!
[09:13] <Azelphur> I got it in at like 2pm yesterday and I got food arriving at 3pm today to go in it, so pondering when I should turn it on
[09:13] <Azelphur> or if I should abort and find an alternative storage location for said food :P
[09:13] <diplo> now or in the next couple of hours will be fine Azelphur
[09:13] <Azelphur> righto :)
[09:13] <Azelphur> I'll fire it up, inb4 explosions
[09:13] <diplo> never had an issue in 20 years of doing it the above way
[09:14] <daftykins> is this all about letting the gas settle and acclimatise or something?
[09:15] <diplo> yep daftykins, I honestly don't think it's an issue now adays
[09:15] <diplo> I think this was a thing from years ago
[09:16] <daftykins> i bet the manuals say
[09:16] <diplo> It's mainly if it's been on it's side etc
[09:16] <diplo> If it stood upright, I don't believe it's an issue
[09:16] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:17] <Seeker> Azelphur: is there still snow outside?
[09:17] <Azelphur> Seeker: nope
[09:17] <Azelphur> there we go powered it up, no explosions as of yet
[09:17] <daftykins> Azelphur: *slap crash bang wallop*
[09:18] <Azelphur> hehe
[09:18] <hoover> morning all
[09:18] <daftykins> hi hoover
[09:33] <bootkigftrgds> morning...
[09:33] <bootkigftrgds> how do i change my nick again ??
[09:34] <knightwise> just type /nick and then your nick
[09:48] <solarcloud> Awesome !!
[09:50] <dwatkins> tada
[09:51] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:52] <dwatkins> ello ello
[09:52] <daftykins> heya
[09:52] <brobostigon> morning dwatkins and daftykins
[09:53] <daftykins> just email'd the guy that has my email address @gmail.com except with an "8" before the @ to ask if he is related to another person who lives near him and seems to be signing me up to their online purchases also :D
[09:53] <daftykins> brobostigon: hello sir
[09:53] <dwatkins> daftykins: I discovered yesterday that there are tens of people in the US with my name
[09:53] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: DW Atkins?
[09:54] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: heh, no - Dominic Watkins
[09:54] <daftykins> dwatkins: :D
[09:54] <dwatkins> one of them is a production designer, see IMDB
[09:54] <daftykins> Dustin kept signing me up (Dave) and now Deborah seems to be at it too
[09:54] <daftykins> they're both in Arizona :>
[09:54] <daftykins> i've got her company on the emails so i can just try and contact someone directly otherwise
[09:55] <MartijnVdS> There's only one person who shares my name
[09:55] <daftykins> be so funny phoning the US and asking for someone by name
[09:56] <directhex> it's not that there are other jo shieldses, i think there's more than one directhex
[09:57] <daftykins> :D
[09:59] <daftykins> if ever there were a conference i would imagine the conversation would be very indirecthex
[09:59] <daftykins> (sorry)
[10:04] <daftykins> ah c'mon it was good :<
[10:04] <directhex> heh
[10:04] <directhex> poor daftykins, not appreciated for his comedy
[10:04] <daftykins> ;)
[10:04] <daftykins> inorite
[10:04] <directhex> y'know, all the best artists only got appreciated after their death
[10:04] <daftykins> www.themu.co.uk
[10:05] <daftykins> glad that guy made that product after all, but £25 is a rip
[10:29] <dwatkins> yeah daftykins - I was hoping for a mains cable for laptops with that on
[10:29] <dwatkins> he seemed to be in talks with Apple, not sure where that went, if anywhere.
[10:30] <daftykins> :O
[10:34] <daftykins> ugh hate when the sun shines directly in on your screens and your contrast ratio drops to nil
[10:34] <daftykins> :>
[10:38] <ubuntubhoy> Morning folks - is it possible to disable the Unity sidebar ?
[10:38] <MartijnVdS> ubuntubhoy: you can make it autohide
[10:38] <ubuntubhoy> yeah
[10:38] <ubuntubhoy> not quite the same
[10:39] <ubuntubhoy> still gives notifications
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> uh?
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> notifications are not in the sidebar
[10:39] <MartijnVdS> they're top-right
[10:40] <ubuntubhoy> the icons jiggle when wanting attention
[10:40] <MartijnVdS> ubuntubhoy: you can disable that
[10:40] <ubuntubhoy> I didn't mean system notifications
[10:40] <ubuntubhoy> aha
[10:40] <ubuntubhoy> how so my good fellow ?
[10:41] <MartijnVdS> probably using ccsm or dconf-editor
[10:41] <ubuntubhoy> will have a little look about
[10:41] <ubuntubhoy> cheers
[10:41] <SuperMatt> I'm actually finding that I'd quite like the dodge behavior back
[10:44] <SuperMatt> I've been playing around with blender in full screen, and it's a little annoying that it doesn't disapper by default
[10:44] <SuperMatt> in fact, it'd be nice if I could chose behavior based on application
[10:47] <gord> i had to approve the merge to remove the dodge behavior (in code) from unity, i got angry emails for that
[10:47] <SuperMatt> yeah? what was the reason for removing it?
[10:47] <SuperMatt> I guess lack of consistancy?
[10:48] <gord> was never sure about that, i think it didn't user test well or something. i liked it
[10:48] <SuperMatt> well, you can't really complain about user testing
[10:49] <SuperMatt> I guess it is a bit of a confusing feature
[10:49] <SuperMatt> especially if a new user is on a laptop
[10:49] <SuperMatt> sure they get more screen space, but they don't know how to open stuff
[10:50] <dwatkins> I noticed my search box pops up whenever I press alt if I have the bar set to auto-hide, perhaps I should upgrade...
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that's the menu thingy
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> or whatever the official name is
[10:50] <MartijnVdS> I've disabled it.
[10:51] <dwatkins> I'm still not sure about the whole thing, especially as I can't move the bar, but that's another discussion entirely ;)
[10:51] <directhex> i'm deploying gnome fallback, i think, in a corporate environment
[10:52] <directhex> feedback from users is that shell is terrible and unity is terrible
[10:52] <directhex> the real issue is discoverability
[10:52] <dwatkins> directhex: yeah, I got that impression when I used fluxbox recently, and it reminded me how I'd discovered a whole bunch of applications by exploring the menus
[10:53] <gord> i find if you base too many decisions on user testing you just end up with an overly homogeneous design
[10:53] <dwatkins> granted, fluxbox isn't the most modern window manager, but still - I learned a lot by just looking at what's available
[10:53] <dwatkins> agreed, gord
[10:53] <directhex> gord, true. but the counterpoint to that is if you run a business & expect users to do their jobs, they need to be able to use their computers
[10:54] <dwatkins> sadly it reminds me of Windows 8 - many people who use it for the first time have trouble finding fundamental things like the start menu and the shutdown button: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/TheMissingWindows8InstructionalVideo.aspx
[10:54] <gord> sure, but its not one or the other, i doubt the mouse would of user tested well back in the day
[10:55] <daftykins> i couldn't find shutdown the first time i ran win8 in a VM :(
[10:55] <dwatkins> I may be set in my ways, but I liked the idea of an 'applications' menu in Gnome which you could browse through to find types of apps, like video-related ones etc.
[10:55] <daftykins> though going for the screen edges is totally counter-intuitive with a VM
[10:55] <daftykins> and hard to pull off even
[10:55] <directhex> there's a big difference between testing on users, and asking users what they think
[10:55] <dwatkins> daftykins: indeed, that's the main issue I have with that 'corners' thing
[10:55] <directhex> if you ask users what they think, you'll get bull answers
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: not always
[10:55] <directhex> if you observe users' behaviour when trying to use it, you get useful data
[10:55] <MartijnVdS> directhex: you need to do both :)
[10:56] <directhex> the answer to "what do you want" is *always* "what i'm used to"
[10:56] <dwatkins> find out what they need?
[10:56] <daftykins> silly change haters
[10:56] <dwatkins> personally I need a way to find out what apps there are for a given task, and a way to get to the control panel items easily
[10:56]  * MartijnVdS has Alt+F2 for both ;)
[10:56] <dwatkins> so the old ways of Gnome suit me well
[10:57] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: what if you don't know the name of an app, though?
[10:57] <MartijnVdS> dwatkins: apt-cache search
[10:57] <dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, I've used that a lot, but straightaway we're in command line territory, when it should just be a case of looking in a folder
[10:57] <directhex> menus are discoverable
[10:57] <dwatkins> e.g. 'video' or 'audio' etc.
[10:57] <dwatkins> as directhex says
[10:57] <directhex> i know they're the least fashionable thing in computers right now, but they are
[10:57] <dwatkins> and on that note, I'm off to a meeting, have fun :)
[10:58] <directhex> so much as we want to move to a post-menu touchscreen world, menus are the easiest way for a user to look at her options & select the appropriate one
[10:59] <gord> menus are pretty bad at that really, but i don't think there is a good replacement yet that isn't too "out there"
[10:59] <daftykins> dwatkins: i'm watching that guys shorter 4 min video, hilariously the more i learn how windows 8 works the less it makes sense to me XD
[11:00] <directhex> _I_ don't know how to see which apps i have that i could run, in unity
[11:00] <daftykins> directhex: i totally agree, if something is presented you can discover and learn how to use it
[11:00] <daftykins> although truth be told i accidentally learnt some gestures on an OS X snow leopard touchpad recently by just trying 3 finger swipe left and right in Safari
[11:00] <directhex> i mean, seriosuly, unity is awful for discoverability
[11:00] <daftykins> i had a feeling since two scrolled, more might do that - and i was right!
[11:01] <directhex> it's great if you already know what you want, much like with shell and win8
[11:01] <directhex> i.e. just type
[11:01] <directhex> but that's not a step forwards. especially in touchscreenland
[11:01] <daftykins> yeah the first time i saw unity i just thought - where the hell did everything go? my first task was to find the desktop resolution settings, i didn't think more stuff would be glued on the menu that comes down beneath the power button :S that was odd
[11:01] <directhex> also, i freaking HATE the modern multi-window paradigms. i've slowed down so much since i stopped having one taskbar button per window
[11:01] <gord> i recently needed to export a pdf from safari in ios to a pdf reader. it took me about ten minutes to figure it out. turns out you have to tap, once the pdf is open in safari, but on the content not any of the safari gubbins. then you get a send to menu
[11:02] <directhex> if i have ten terminals open, with useful titles on them, unity multiplies the number of clicks i need
[11:03] <daftykins> first thing i disable in windows 7, those silly 'tiles' on the taskbar instead of text-adorned items
[11:03] <daftykins> no grouping permitted, no combining
[11:03] <directhex> the global menu is one of apple's stupidest design decisions since it forces the user to manually track which window has focus (therefore which window the global bar applies to). totally counterintuitive
[11:03] <daftykins> gord: haha nice
[11:04] <daftykins> directhex: yeah took me a while to get used to that. plus then shortcuts aren't available system wide, e.g. command+shift+u opens the utilities folder but only IF the finder is the currently active process
[11:04] <directhex> all of unity's messing about is fine from an experimental perspective, but lucid was a more usable business desktop than precise, purely due to all the ubuntu design team's stuff. and using shell on precise would be no better, since shell has its own set of user-hostile paradigm shifts
[11:07] <directhex> i'm not saying ubuntu sucks any more than i'm saying upstream gnome sucks, when it comes to blithely changing established computer usage patterns for the very well justified reason of LOOK BEHIND YOU A THREE-HEADED MONKEY
[11:07] <directhex> unity is far far more usable than shell, IMHO
[11:07] <directhex> but that's like picking your favourite STD
[11:07] <daftykins> i can't even try gnome3 in a VM 'cause it falls to fallback saying i have no hardware support, despite 3D accel being enabled O_O
[11:07] <mungbean> tried elementary?
[11:08] <daftykins> my dear watson?
[11:08] <mungbean> quickest and nicest DE around IMO
[11:09] <directhex> mungbean, how do i install it on precise?
[11:11] <daftykins> directhex: do you ever have a fiddle with debian still?
[11:11] <mungbean> directhex: best to boot from liveusb at the mo
[11:12] <mungbean> as its still beta
[11:12] <mungbean> i tried adding the repo to 12.04 but some other DE/theme settings interfered - might be OK on relatively clean install though
[11:13] <directhex> mungbean, then it's not something i care about
[11:13] <directhex> daftykins, i use debian as my "place to upload things". i don't upload to ubuntu directly
[11:13] <mungbean> try it out anyway
[11:18] <SuperMatt> ooh, fedora 18 today
[11:18] <neuro> it's finally old enough to drink
[11:20] <daftykins> directhex: not sure i follow
[11:20] <daftykins> neuro: perhaps in giving it a spin, that shall show
[11:21] <directhex> daftykins, i use and deploy ubuntu, on desktops. i'm a debian developer & contribute to debian
[11:22] <daftykins> oh ok
[11:22] <daftykins> upload in that sense
[11:40] <daftykins> i had a play with a net install of wheezy the other day
[11:40] <daftykins> that's what didn't come up right in the VM =/
[11:52] <solarcloud> When I try to Add an account in Empathy, It just opens up the System settings .. What am I doing wrong ???
[11:53] <daftykins> anyone recognise the ship? https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/486067_586009144759016_675528325_n.jpg
[11:53] <directhex> solarcloud, nothing, in modern gnome. empathy gets its accounts from the Ubuntu Online Accounts pane in system settings
[11:53] <Mez> solarcloud: is there an online accounts option in there ?
[11:53] <solarcloud> daftykins: Fifth element ?
[11:53] <davmor2> morning all
[11:53] <ahayzen> solarcloud, empathy uses the online accounts part of system settings now to manage accounts
[11:53] <daftykins> solarcloud: hrmm which bit?
[11:54] <solarcloud> daftykins: Dunno, just a hunch.
[11:54] <solarcloud> thanks about Empathy .. there's no 'onlne' A/c.s things afaik
[12:01] <beatsonline> still cant use Empathy .. I'm banned from #lubuntufor some silly reason :(
[12:03] <dwatkins> beatsonline: perhaps you're using the same ISP or username as someone legitimately banned from there
[12:03] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/1067901
[12:04] <beatsonline> basically, it's useless , then.
[12:04] <ali1234> yeah pretty much
[12:04] <ali1234> once again all the other desktops have been thrown under a bus to make something trivial work in unity
[12:05] <beatsonline> how do I get unity working for Lubuntu ??
[12:05] <ali1234> you don't
[12:05] <beatsonline> oh poo.
[12:06] <ali1234> just stop using empathy and install pidgin
[12:07] <beatsonline> but i want to use all the other services .. is there a message aggregator other than empathy ( to use identi.ca etc ) . ??
[12:07] <MartijnVdS> your web browser?
[12:07] <beatsonline> it's too slow .. i want to et message updates etc ..
[12:07] <beatsonline> **get
[12:08] <beatsonline> althou, it is chrome :)
[12:10] <ali1234> if you install gnome-control-center-signon
[12:10] <ali1234> and then modify the .desktop to remove the OnlyShowIn: line
[12:10] <ali1234> and then install gnome control center
[12:10] <beatsonline> I'm doing that ..
[12:10] <ali1234> then you will be able to configure accounts in empathy
[12:13] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-control-center/+bug/1040193
[12:18] <beatsonline> aparantly, the background downloade daemon crashed .. AAAArgh !!
[12:26] <beatsonline> ali1234: How do I modify the "desktop to OnlyShowIn: Line " ??
[12:33] <beatsonline> hello ??
[12:43] <daftykins> ooh-err
[12:43] <daftykins> connection troubles galore
[13:02]  * Laney wibbles
[13:04] <daftykins> Laney: how dare thee wibble in my presence!
[13:04]  * Laney wübbles at daftykins
[13:05] <daftykins> ach, auf Deutsch?
[13:05] <daftykins> sehr gut ^_^
[13:05]  * czajkowski knocks over the wibbling Laney
[13:06]  * Laney wøbbles off into the distance
[13:10] <daftykins> i can't even pronounce that one
[13:21] <ali1234> the virtualbox bug where the mouse point continually jumps to the top left corner of the screen really doesn't mix well with gnome shell
[13:37] <beatsonline> What is the Lubuntu alternative to Gwibber ??
[13:38] <ali1234> going to twitter in firefox
[13:50] <davmor2> beatsonline: there isn't an alternative to gwibber everything else is individual clients
[13:58] <czajkowski> danfish: https://launchpad.net/nosh-cs
[14:11] <meet> how do i automount my ntfs partitions on startup?
[14:12] <directhex> add a line to /etc/fstab
[14:13] <meet> directhex: what line?
[14:16] <daftykins> meet: pastebin us your /etc/fstab and the output of 'sudo fdisk -l' and we'll see
[14:16] <davmor2> meet: http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/automount_ntfs.html first one back from a google search
[14:17] <daftykins> davmor2: cor, did you feel lucky?
[14:18] <daftykins> actually they got rid of that didn't they ;/
[14:19] <directhex> something like this one from my pc: /dev/disk/by-label/despair_data	/data	auto	rw,user,exec,utf8	0	2
[14:23] <daftykins> well well well the mystery deepends
[14:23] <daftykins> *deepens
[14:23] <daftykins> the other US person with my name is apparently unknown to the last one!
[14:24] <daftykins> so it seems i'll have to try phoning the random number to see if i can discover who this randomer is 0o
[14:24] <daftykins> and ask them to stop using my email XD
[14:24] <directhex> well, "Daf Tykins" is a pretty rare name!
[14:24] <daftykins> you'd think so
[14:25] <daftykins> and yet peeps keep signing up<EMAIL_ADDRESS>be they called Dustin or Deborah
[14:39] <Mez> So, just spent 3 hours trying to work with nvidia Quadro card and 12.10. Unity really doesn't like it.
[14:40] <daftykins> nvidia-current not run with it is it?
[14:40] <daftykins> guess it depends what generation quadro
[16:13] <DJones> \o/ XBMC set up & working, very impressed with it
[16:14] <diplo> Its great, what version are using DJones ?
[16:15] <DJones> Frodo
[16:17] <DJones> I'm surprised how well it works on a low spec machine, I put Lubuntu on a machine with 512Mb ram and built in graphics, but doesn't have any speed issues even playing video from a samba share
[16:18] <shauno> playback is fine on my pi.  (and my 900MHz celeron).  it tends to be the UI that gets sloppy first
[16:18] <DJones> installed the remote control on my phone to control it rather than having to go to a keyboard/mouse
[16:18] <diplo> Cool, I still use my revo but have a pi at home im borrowing to test
[16:20] <DJones> That'll be my wife happy anyway, she's got 2 series of house to watch now
[16:35] <Seeker> ali1234: seems the distribution stuff is fixed now
[16:56] <popey> Morning slackers!
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> evening mr popeyman
[17:04] <AlanBell> morning popey
[17:04] <AlanBell> how is the land of the setting sun?
[17:06] <popey> cold
[17:07] <SuperMatt> setting? it's already set!
[17:07] <SuperMatt> damn sun
[17:08] <AlanBell> some say the sun sets in the west, some say it sets in the east. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
[17:08] <popey> nice and bright here
[17:11] <gord> our only hope is to pray to the great sun gods and hope the sun comes back tomorrow
[17:18] <czajkowski> whoo sheldon is back from toshiba, all working well what ever they did
[17:19] <czajkowski> although in one of the notes it does say, install windows and all will be ok
[17:19] <czajkowski> not bad for something that was just outside of warranty
[18:16] <BigRedS> Anyone know of any n-m alternatives that aren't wicd? All I want is a thing that'll deal with my wifi interface
[18:16] <BigRedS> but as if it were 2013, so no iwlist :)
[18:17] <popey> why not n-m?
[18:18] <BigRedS> because it disables the bridge my vms use to talk to the host
[18:18] <BigRedS> and doesn't appear to listen when I tell it to not
[18:19] <BigRedS> I don't have very high expectations of n-m, but that surprised me :)
[18:19] <BigRedS> It's bug 1099949 but I'd really like to get some work done in between now and if that gets fixed
[19:49] <meet> i am unable to add any ppa.
[19:49] <meet> help needed. what could be the problem?
[19:50] <BigRedS> meet: what happens when you try?
[19:50] <meet> BigRedS: shall i give you the output?
[19:50] <meet> the thing is i am not able to apt-get update also.
[19:50] <BigRedS> pastebin it
[19:52] <meet> http://fpaste.org/8KdB/
[19:54] <BigRedS> there doesn't appear to be a quantal version of that ppa
[19:55] <BigRedS> http://ppa.launchpad.net/mefrio-g/plymouthmanager/ubuntu/dists/ is all the releases for which there is a repo
[19:56] <meet> so how to remove that error?
[19:56] <meet> moreover can i install the package despite these errors?
[19:57] <BigRedS> well, if you remove the ppa it'll stop trying to downloa it and stop triggering the error
[19:58] <meet> how to remove the ppa?
[19:58] <BigRedS> it might be that the oneiric one works, but it may well not, I've no idea
[19:58] <popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
[19:58] <BigRedS> you'd need to check with the maintainer, probably. There might be a newer PPA supplying the same thing
[19:58] <meet> i got a blog which said they worked on the 12.10 and 12.04
[19:58] <popey> sudo ppa-purge ppa:mefrio-g/plymouthmanager
[19:59] <meet> popey: ppa-purge command not found
[19:59] <popey> you didnt do the first step
[19:59] <popey> 19:58:24 < popey> sudo apt-get install ppa-purge
[19:59] <meet> oh :)
[20:01] <davmor2> night all
[20:02] <popey> nn davmor2
[20:06] <BigRedS> Hmm, what's the upstart equivalent of editing init scripts?
[20:06] <BigRedS> I've largely ignored upstart thus far, and I've just noticed all those init scripts are symlinks :)
[20:10] <BigRedS> Ah! They're in /etc/init
[20:11] <MartijnVdS> innit
[20:11] <brobostigon> lol
[20:59] <bigcalm> Evening all
[21:28] <popey> hello
[21:38] <daubers> o/
[21:39] <daubers> New PC nearly constructed!! Just awaiting CPU + RAM
[21:45] <beatsonline> popey, hi how's cali-forn-i.a. ??
[21:45] <dwatkins> daubers: this is my graphics card right now, I'm kinda at the other end of the process... http://imgur.com/Oy7Sp
[21:46]  * beatsonline expects popey's gloates...
[21:47] <popey> its cold
[21:47] <beatsonline> that it ? ..come on, you went all that way ...
[21:48] <popey> ☺
[21:48] <beatsonline> OK .OK, so how do you do that keystroke ??
[21:49] <popey> I type a colon and then a close bracket
[21:49] <beatsonline> :)
[21:49] <beatsonline> that doesn't translate very well...
[22:00] <beatsonline> popey, Have you seen any Imperial stormtroopers , so far you've been there ?
[22:04] <popey> nope
[22:04] <popey> mostly been in the hotel
[22:04] <beatsonline> popey, I'm sending you here to make me some pie  ... https://plus.google.com/114350712506628567694/about?hl=en
[23:37] <Danawar3> Hey Ubuntu-UK my Ubuntu computer has started getting very slow and occasionally locking up where would I be able to troubleshoot this as CPU usage is always around 10-20%
[23:38] <popey> Danawar3: #ubuntu is the official support irc channel..
[23:46] <exobuzz> my laptop doesn't seem to work anymore. ive tried switching it off and on and nothing.. http://www.jogglerwiki.com/forum/download/file.php?id=390&mode=view
[23:47] <popey> ☺
[23:47] <popey> what was it?
[23:47] <popey> well done for getting it out of the house
[23:48] <exobuzz> yeh.. tbh if I had realised it could have exploded a few more times (ive watched some video with a demo), i may not have been so silly as to pick it up and carry it out :)
[23:48] <popey> what make/model was it?
[23:49] <exobuzz> but i was happy it didn't continue burning on my dining table and set my house on fire. also good the fire station is 2 mins away
[23:49] <exobuzz> travelmate 8104wlmi
[23:49] <AlanBell> exobuzz: I think that might be a hardware issue
[23:49] <popey> did you contact the manufacturer?
[23:49] <exobuzz> i emailed them to inform them of what happened yeh. heard nothing back yet
[23:49] <exobuzz> AlanBell, must be :)
[23:50] <popey> is it in warranty?
[23:50] <exobuzz> this is kind of how it looked http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pizFsY0yjss
[23:50] <exobuzz> naah. tis old laptop .. i bought it in 2006 or something
[23:51] <exobuzz> interesting video that.
[23:52] <exobuzz> a friend wrote on facebook "Linux power management isn't very good still I see ".
[23:52] <popey> heh


[00:41] <lazypower> Excellent. Turns out it was due to bundler scoping the env, awesome.
[00:41] <lazypower> sorry - being unable to call pry in the chef cookbook during runtime. The charm skeleton was doing best practice by piping the chef-solo run through the bundle
[03:26] <lazypower> How can I tell if my unit already has a relationship with another charm? I'm seeing a way to get the relation ids, and the list, but I'm looking more to see if it has an implicitly defined relationship with mongodb
[03:26] <lazypower> since thats defined in the yaml, i assume its got a boolean call to discover if relation-get('mongodb') exists?
[03:27] <marcoceppi> lazypower: I use dot files to track when relations are created, etc
[03:28] <lazypower> That works, thanks
[03:45] <marcoceppi> lazypower: I'll also stuff data in there, so I don't have to call the relation commands, I can just read the contents of the dot file
[05:00] <lazypower> i was thinking about that, using it as a storage unit.
[10:46] <noodles775> jam: RE the cached charms when deploying locally, is there a way I can work around that (other than --upgrade)? I want to re-run an amulet test on my bootstrapped env (which doesn't use --upgrade when deploying).
[10:47] <jam> noodles775: I don't know of a way offhand, I didn't find where they were being cached
[10:50] <noodles775> jam: when running locally, is machine-0 even an lxc? It doesn't seem to be, perhaps it's talking to a mongodb somewhere that I need to clear.
[10:50]  * noodles775 looks around.
[10:50] <jam> no
[10:50] <jam> machine-0 runs mongodb on the local system
[10:55] <mgz> noodles775: one option there is to have your setup in amulet using a juju-deployer config, rather than doing deploy() calls and so on
[10:56] <mgz> so, you can then run the same thing again (which juju-deployer copes with), and just have the assertions changed
[10:57] <noodles775> OK, thanks mgz.
[11:05] <mgz> noodles775: I'd love to see your test stuff if you can point me at it
[11:08] <noodles775> mgz: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~michael.nelson/charms/precise/elasticsearch/trunk/files
[11:10] <mgz> noodles775: thanks!
[16:29] <mgz> marcoceppi: are you aware of any charms actually using the python-django application charm thing? I'm trying to find an example.
[16:29] <marcoceppi> mgz: cjohnston might know. I think he was using it
[16:30] <marcoceppi> but he's not in the channel
[16:31] <mgz> marcoceppi: I think I'm looking at his code, and it's just doing the use-this-launchpad-branch thing
[16:33] <mgz> marcoceppi: put up a pull request for amulet on python 2 btw
[16:34] <marcoceppi> mgz: Thank you! I've been meaning to this for a while now
[16:34] <mgz> if you're curious about what we've been up to as well, see:
[16:34] <marcoceppi> mgz: I'll make sure it gets packaged python and python3

[16:36] <marcoceppi> o/
[16:37] <rbasak> jackweirdy, marcoceppi: o/
[16:59] <sinzui> marcoceppi, I see intermittent failures deploying to mysql on HP. I wonder if the machine is under powered. Do you think 2G for mysql + juju agent is low?
[17:47] <marcoceppi> sinzui: this is a problem with a specific region of HP Cloud
[17:47] <marcoceppi> I think az2
[17:48] <marcoceppi> I haven't been able to pinpoint. Works flawlessly in az1
[17:48] <marcoceppi> and az3
[17:50] <sinzui> marcoceppi, I see the problem on az-3. I just changed CI to use more ram and didn't see the mysql state error. I will let CI run a while to confirm the failure has become rare
[17:50] <marcoceppi> sinzui: thanks
[17:55] <rick_h__> sinzui: just a heads up, still would love to chat a bit if you get time this week
[17:56] <sinzui> rick_h__, sure. maybe in an hour or so.
[19:13] <sinzui> rick_h__, fate is conspiring against me. My wife's car is misbehaving. I don't have any meeting tomorrow. Ca we talk in the morning?
[19:15] <rick_h__> sinzui: sure thing, no hurry
[19:23] <_bjorne> can someome explain for me why im alwas get this from node 2 and up?!?!?!?! GET /MAAS/metadata//2012-03-01/user-data HTTP/1.1" 404 217 "-" "Python-urllib/2.7
[19:23] <_bjorne> and im not get that on node 1
[19:24] <_bjorne> what im doing wrong?
[19:28] <_bjorne> no one here?
[19:30] <natefinch> _bjorne, try #maas you might get more luck.
[19:33] <_bjorne> natefinch should all nodes from scratch, can i see them in juju status or do im do anything more?`
[19:36] <natefinch> _bjorne, you will need to do juju add-machine (or juju-deploy, which will add a machine and deploy a service to it) in order to see machines in juju status.
[19:37] <_bjorne> if im not do add-machine? im see only the first node/machine?
[19:38] <natefinch> _bjorne, yes, that's the correct behavior.  We only acquire machines as necessary.
[19:39] <_bjorne> ok and after that, machine 2 runs dist-upgrade and install lxc and mongodb?
[19:40] <_bjorne> can you tell me how im write add-machine a example? :) im new on this :/ and not new with computers and linux :)
[19:46] <_bjorne> are that like this only im need to write if im want to add a new machine?  juju add-machine lxc
[19:46] <natefinch> _bjorne, it should just be a matter of "juju add-machine"  All that really does is requisition a machine from MAAS and start it running.
[19:47] <_bjorne> okey
[19:48] <natefinch> _bjorne, add-machine lxc will start a new machine and put an empty lxc container on it.  Containers are optional, you don't need to use them unless you want to for some reason.  by default, things deploy just to the base machine
[19:50] <natefinch> _bjorne, the usual way to use juju is to set up your ~/.juju/environments.yaml with the right information for your environment.  Then do juju switch maas (to make your maas environment the default one you're working with).  Then you do juju bootstrap to start up the environment (this deploys node 0).  You can then deploy services with juju deploy <servicename>.  That'll requisition new machines, start them up, and deploy the s
[19:50] <natefinch> ervice to them.
[19:52] <_bjorne> im using default config
[19:54] <_bjorne> my problem was from the beginning, im cant get user-data on from the second machine, the first was function good.
[19:55] <_bjorne> agent-state-info: '(error: cannot run instances: gomaasapi: got error
[19:55] <_bjorne> back from
[19:55] <_bjorne> and what is that?
[20:01] <_bjorne> hmm if machine dont find user-data that is not installs lxc and mongodb? or im do that with add-machine?
[20:14] <natefinch> _bjorne, I'm ont sure what it means not to find user data.  I'm better at juju than maas.  The guys on #maas will be more useful with errors coming out of maas, which is what this sounds like
[20:16] <_bjorne> okey :) i will try to ask there again.
[20:17] <_bjorne> and know time to sleep :) up and working tomorrow... :/ drive that f*cking truck in Gothenburg :)
[20:17] <thumper> o/
[20:18] <_bjorne> havey 60tom 25.25meter long :)
[20:20] <natefinch> yikes, good luck, _bjorne
[20:21] <sarnold> wow, what a different kind of problem ;) hehe
[20:22] <_bjorne> im wish im working inside :) today that was rain :( and not fun to be out then.
[20:26] <sarnold> :(
[20:47] <dpb1> Can juju use custom images?
[20:47] <dpb1> I guess I would need to maintain my own simplestreams map?
[20:47] <natefinch> dpb1, you mean machine images?
[20:48] <dpb1> natefinch: cloud images
[20:48] <natefinch> dpb1, ok, so, right now, no.  We always use an ubuntu cloud image
[20:49] <dpb1> natefinch: OK.  if I wanted to snapshot an assembled ubuntu cloud image and maintain a simplestreams directory, would that work?
[20:50] <dpb1> or is there more to it than that.
[20:51] <dpb1> natefinch: I'm launching ci slaves with juju, and I get tired of the 15-20 minutes spin-up time because of all the software we need to install.
[21:06] <natefinch> dpb1, understandable.  I'm actually not sure if you can usurp the regular image for another ubuntu image with stuff pre-installed.  thumper - would you know if that's something that could be done?
[21:45]  * thumper notices the name
[21:45]  * thumper reads
[21:45] <thumper> dpb1, natefinch: at this time, I think that only the standard ubuntu-cloud image is supported
[21:45] <thumper> but I may be wrong
[21:46] <thumper> dpb1: on which provider?
[21:46] <thumper> dpb1: regarding the simplestreams work ,that may well work, check with wallyworld_ when he is around
[21:47]  * wallyworld_ reads backscroll
[21:48] <wallyworld_> dpb1: juju has tools for maintaining simplestreams metadata for using your own images. see "juju help metadata"
[21:49] <wallyworld_> you basically generate the json files and put them in your cloud storage (or elsewhere and then use image-metadata-url to point to that location)
[21:49] <wallyworld_> see also the 1.16 release notes for a little more information
[21:49] <dpb1> thumper: openstack
[21:50] <wallyworld_> i'm not sure how up-to-date the online docs are yet
[21:50] <dpb1> wallyworld_: thanks, I will read that.
[21:50] <wallyworld_> if openstack, easiest to put the custom metadata in the "control buket"
[21:50]  * dpb1 nods
[21:51] <wallyworld_> i'll be afk for 30 mins or so soon but can answer any questions when i get back
[21:53] <natefinch> wow, that was actually a lot more positive that I expected :)  That simplestreams stuff is pretty sweet :)
[21:54] <thumper> natefinch: sinzui
[21:54] <thumper> ugh
[21:54] <thumper> EWRONGCHAN
[21:55] <dpb1> thx all... I'll ping back if I run into issues.
[21:56] <natefinch> thumper: I'm just going to keep switching channels for the fun of it
[22:49] <maxcan> hey
[22:50] <maxcan> i have a question about writing a charm which will run a docker container
[22:51] <maxcan> the docker instructions say that on ubuntu precise, you need to upgrade the kernel and reboot to install docker, but doing that inside a juju install hook seems wrong
[22:51] <maxcan> is there a "right way" to do this?
[22:51] <maxcan> alternatively, is it possible/safe to have juju agents running newer versions of ubuntu than precise?
[22:58] <maxcan> marcoceppi, lazypower, if you're around :)
[22:59] <marcoceppi> maxcan: you can write your charm for any series of Ubuntu, precise, raring, saucy, and now trusty
[22:59] <marcoceppi> maxcan: we have a few charms that do reboot servers, though it's not exactly a recommended practice
[23:00] <marcoceppi> maxcan: juju agents should pick up where they left off with hook execution, though it'll attempt to re-run the install hook (since it never completed) you'l have to have idemopotency guards to make sure it doesn't loop reboot
[23:00] <maxcan> marcoceppi: so is there anything i need to do besides putting it in a raring/ or saucy/ directory instead of precise?
[23:00] <marcoceppi> maxcan: some of the openstack charms do reboots for kernels
[23:00] <maxcan> got it
[23:00] <maxcan> ty sir
[23:01] <maxcan> so one of my other developers was wondering if its possible to use custom AMIs with juju.
[23:14] <marcoceppi> maxcan: no, charmers are guarenteed to get the Canonical blessed image for each cloud
[23:14] <lazypower> +1 to that
[23:14] <lazypower> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/juju/2013-April/002389.html
[23:14] <marcoceppi> maxcan: whatever customizations you do to the AMI should just be included in the charm
[23:14] <maxcan> sounds good to me
[23:14] <lazypower> ^ this suggests it was on its way back in but the tribunal has ruled against it?
[23:15] <lazypower> marcoceppi: wait, so with that being said, does that mean it's a safe assumption that my charm's are going to be deployed on ubuntu only, and if i make that assumption just plug it into the readme and go?
[23:15] <marcoceppi> lazypower: charms are currently tied to a series
[23:16] <lazypower> Oh man, i love that
[23:16] <lazypower> i dont know why i didn't think of that earlier, i was trying to get heady with supporting some really ancient stuff.
[23:16] <marcoceppi> lazypower: we may be adding additional support for OS outside of Ubuntu, but that's why charms are locked to a series branch, ie precise
[23:16] <marcoceppi> lazypower: either way, charms will always denote what platoform they support
[23:16] <lazypower> code cleanup incoming in light of recent news.


[13:15] <Casey> if I wanted to have a raid1 for storage and be able to access it the raid when I switch between OS's (windows and ubuntu) what would be best  formate scheme to us, GUID or MasterBoot?
[13:40] <Casey> Nevermind, I have found the answer I was looking for.
[17:03] <danstoner> Ubuntu Edge!  http://igg.me/at/ubuntuedge/x/4036295


[01:38] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti dednick, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Failed to upload (xenial/qtmir-gles, zesty/qtmir). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/unity-api). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:qtmir cache., /: Failed to update local lp:unity8 cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:qtmir, xenial/lp:unity-api, xenial/lp:unity8, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:qtm
[02:04] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mzanetti dednick, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2373 Failed to upload (xenial/qtmir-gles). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/qtmir, zesty/unity-api, zesty/unity8). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:qtmir, xenial/lp:unity-api, xenial/lp:unity8, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:qtmir, zesty/lp:unity-api, zesty/lp:unity8, zesty/to, zesty/update). Success
[03:41] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2140 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/ubuntu-system-settings). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:ubuntu-system-settings cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[04:24] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2140 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[07:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- artmello, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2670 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:ubuntu-system-settings cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (zesty/ubun
[07:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- artmello, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2670 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings). Needs rebuild due to new commits (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:ubuntu-system-settings, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[14:02] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mardy dbarth, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2581 Dependency wait (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[14:25] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mardy dbarth, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2581 Dependency wait (zesty/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/ubuntu-system-settings-online-accounts)
[21:31] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- pete-woods jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2610 Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:indicator-network cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:indicator-network, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:indicator-network, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-network, zesty/indicator-network)
[21:56] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- pete-woods jgdx, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2610 Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:indicator-network, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:indicator-network, zesty/to, zesty/update). Successfully built (xenial/indicator-network, zesty/indicator-network)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mardy dbarth, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2371 DONE queue (xenial/signon-ui). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:~online-accounts/signon-ui/16.04 cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:~online-accounts/signon-ui/16.04, xenial/to, xenial/update)
[23:32] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- josharenson, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2031 Needs rebuild due to higher version at destination (xenial/unity8, zesty/unity8). Ready to build (/:, /: Failed to update local lp:unity8 cache., xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:unity8, xenial/to, xenial/update, zesty/Failed, zesty/cache., zesty/local, zesty/lp:unity8, zesty/to, zesty/update)
[23:55] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- mardy dbarth, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2371 DONE queue (xenial/signon-ui). Ready to build (/:, xenial/Failed, xenial/cache., xenial/local, xenial/lp:~online-accounts/signon-ui/16.04, xenial/to, xenial/update)
[23:59] -queuebot:#ubuntu-ci-eng- Trevinho andyrock, https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/3198 Failed to build (bionic/unity). Ready to build (/: Failed to update local lp:unity cache.)


[00:02] <ali1234> ok
[00:05] <ochosi> it also installs a new xfconf property "cycle_tabwin_mode" with which you can switch between the normal view (0) and the list view (1)
[00:12] <ali1234> so where's the branch?
[00:14] <ochosi> in git.xfce
[00:15] <ochosi> http://git.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/log/?h=ochosi/tabwin
[00:19] <ali1234> well the first thing i notice is that when i mouse over the tabwin two things look selected, which is confusing
[00:22] <ali1234> i created "cycle_tabwin_conf" but it doesn't work
[00:22] <ochosi> well themes will take care of that
[00:23] <ochosi> e.g. if you use the tabwin-branch of greybird, you'll see a different hover-color between the mouse and keyboard selection
[00:23] <ochosi> (a meaningful difference i think)
[00:23] <ochosi> ali1234: but i said "cycle_tabwin_mode", not conf
[00:24] <ali1234> still doesn't work
[00:26] <ochosi> i had to build with --prefix=/usr and install it
[10:47] <knome> pleia2, ping me when you're around
[10:47] <knome> hey elfy
[10:49] <elfy> hi knome
[15:29] <knome> elfy, got your mail. i'll read it after i've de- and reassembled a shelf and then i'll PM you
[15:31] <elfy> lol
[15:32] <elfy> no rush - if you rush you'll lose a screw ;)
[15:35] <knome> heh, no screws included in the task
[15:35] <knome> but i'm stuck nonetheless, i have no idea how i should disassemble that
[15:35] <knome> or should i say, no ikea
[15:35] <knome> ;)=
[15:39] <elfy> I'll lend you this - disassembles most things ... http://eagleapex.com/wp-content/uploads/IMG_7175.JPG
[15:40] <knome> hah, yeah, though the idea is to use that shelf after i've disassembled it...
[18:20] <pleia2> knome: morning
[18:28] <knome> good day pleia2 :)
[18:28] <knome> now if i only remember what it was...
[18:29] <pleia2> hehe
[18:53] <ochosi> elfy: could you please review/test these new instructions and if they work, please send another email to the ML about the new page? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
[18:53] <elfy> lol - I was just typing a question out about that ...
[18:53] <ochosi> hope we can get someone to copy all the different packages to a single PPA soon
[18:54] <elfy> I'll look tomorrow at that lot
[18:54] <ochosi> and actually the indicator-plugin would be nice if it were also in a PPA finally
[18:55] <ochosi> micahg: could you help with "consolidating" these instructions? (i.e. copy lionel's packages to your PPA or to a new PPA together with libxfce4ui and ideally also the indicator-plugin) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
[18:55] <elfy> ochosi: one question - will I be able to just do that and it work over what I've got here already? that is the gtk3 stuff installed from the previous wiki version?
[18:56] <ochosi> you can uninstall the panel (simply go to the folder you installed it from and run "sudo make uninstall"), same for libxfce4ui
[18:56] <ochosi> then add the PPAs from step1 and run step2 and you should be fine
[18:56] <elfy> ok
[19:40] <ochosi> hey Noskcaj
[19:41] <Noskcaj> hey ochosi
[19:43] <Noskcaj> can someone help me fix a build issue in gthumb? Some extensions aren't getting installed
[19:43] <Noskcaj> https://mentors.debian.net/package/gthumb
[20:01] <ochosi> Noskcaj: if you're out of work ever, you could help with "consolidating" packages in a single PPA for testers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Trusty/Gtk3Indicators
[20:02] <ochosi> currently there's one pkg in micahg's ppa and one in mr_pouit's ppa
[20:02] <ochosi> )and one is still missing)
[20:02] <Noskcaj> i've got to put some symbols in the flac package, then i'll do that
[20:05] <ali1234> ochosi: have a loot at this: https://github.com/ali1234/panel-switch
[20:05] <ali1234> the DBus interface for xfconf is quite simple
[20:06] <ali1234> the most complicated thing is dealing with the GVariant type
[20:06] <ali1234> this code doesn't deal with it, but it almost works
[20:06] <ali1234> it's just that it turns everything like int, bool, array into type string - which breaks the panel really bad
[20:07] <ali1234> but in general this way should work
[20:07] <ali1234> it also needs to kill the panel before doing the load
[20:08] <ali1234> (if you run load.py it will delete your panel config btw)
[20:14] <Noskcaj> ochosi, What are the PPA i should be looking at?
[20:15] <knome> Noskcaj, doesn't the wikipage you were pasted tell that?
[20:16] <Noskcaj> whoops, didn't see that page
[20:20] <Noskcaj> I think all the gtk3 stuff should be in a ~xubuntu-dev PPA, so i'll leave this for someone else
[20:22] <ali1234> it probably would be if it was packaged
[20:22] <ali1234> the indicator plugin still lacks a working package anywhere
[20:24] <Noskcaj> ali1234, Would the 2.1.0 release be enough?
[20:24] <ali1234> of indicator-plugin?
[20:24] <Noskcaj> yeah
[20:26] <ali1234> no, we need master
[21:16] <knome> elfy, heh, so, i'm ready with the disassembling now
[21:16] <knome> elfy, (and reassembling)
[21:16] <knome> elfy, let me read those pads first and then get back to you
[21:29] <knome> elfy, are you around?
[21:29] <elfy> for a short while still
[21:29] <knome> ok, cool
[21:29] <knome> i'll PM
[21:30] <elfy> ok
[22:01] <ochosi> andrzejr: hey there! would you mind doing another point-release of the indicator plugin? that'd help us quite a bit with testing (we can also use git master though, not sure what your current release-policy is)
[22:02] <ochosi> heh, well that's also an answer :)
[22:03] <elfy> LOL
[22:03] <ochosi> ali1234: i'll take a look at your panel-config repo now
[22:04] <ochosi> so isn't there a way you can querey the type of the properties?
[22:06] <ochosi> very nice though, the code is still quite short
[22:18] <ochosi> andrzejr: i guess you missed my comment from before, just ping me whenever you're around
[22:22] <andrzejr> ochosi, ping
[22:25] <ochosi> andrzejr: pong
[22:25] <ochosi> i wanted to ask you, would you mind doing another point-release of the indicator plugin?
[22:26] <ochosi> it'd help us with testing it (although our testers can arguably also test with git-master)
[22:26] <ochosi> not sure what your release-policy/model is at the moment, but without the latest changes in git, it doesn't properly work for the current indicators
[22:29] <andrzejr> ochosi, I'm doing it now (I have seen Nosckcaj's question). I was waiting for necessary changes to be merged into xfce4-panel master (ideally, with a development release but that may take some time)
[22:29] <ochosi> ah, cool
[22:29] <ochosi> yeah, makes sense
[22:30] <ochosi> i'm very happy nick merged it...
[22:33] <andrzejr> release already in git, now making preparing an announcement
[22:34] <ochosi> thanks a lot!
[22:47] <andrzejr> done
[22:51] <ochosi> nice, already received the release-mail