[01:12] <GTRsdk> Hi. Could you unban me in #ubuntu-offtopic?
[01:15] <pangolin> GTRsdk: let me see if I can find an op to help you
[01:15] <GTRsdk> pangolin: you are no longer an op?
[01:15] <pangolin> I am an op but not in #ubuntu-offtopic
[01:16] <GTRsdk> ah okay
[01:19] <pangolin> GTRsdk: there doesn't seem to be any ops around at the moment. Come back in a couple of hours?
[04:27] <Tm_T> GTRsdk: hello?
[04:34] <GTRsdk> Hello Tm_T
[04:53] <Athanasius> Hi, I'd like to leave a suggestion here primarily for LjL, but one that probably all the ops will need to discuss. It'll take some time to write out, so gimme a sec
[04:54] <Athanasius> I know the FloodBots automatically redirect-ban people vulnerable to the dcc exploits, which has been very useful I think in minimizing the amount of effect those exploits do
[04:54] <Athanasius> I'd like to suggest that the Floodbots do the same for the x-chat exploits that have been making their rounds of late
[04:54] <Athanasius> Now, I think (not sure) the clients only crash on an attempt to render, meaning if someone drops the exploit string, a client may not crash until a couple seconds later when the window is switched to
[04:55] <Athanasius> So, what I suggest the floodbots do is this: When someone drops an exploit string (I have a fairly good regex for that which I can share if you'd like), have the floodbots monitor Connection reset by peer quits for the next 10 minutes.
[04:57] <Athanasius> Upon a client re-joining #ubuntu after this, have the floodbots send a CTCP VERSION to the joining client. If the version string says they're running a vulnerable version of x-chat, kick-banforward the client to #ubuntu-read-topic2 or somesuch, with information about the exploit and basically a "upgrade your client" message
[04:58] <Athanasius> If the person requests an exploit test, the floodbot should message them the exploit character, followed by a message with a random number, and "Say this number back to me so I know your screen rendered this okay" sort of a thing
[05:00] <Athanasius> I know the primary aspect of this controversialness is it would mean the floodbots would, on rare occasion, VERSION a client on joining, but given the impact I think #ubuntu has had on reducing dcc exploit victims, it'd be really neat to see the same happen with the x-chat stuff
[05:00] <Athanasius> Anyways, that's my suggestion. Value is more than or equal to what you paid for it (:
[05:00] <Athanasius> And now, I'm off.
[05:16] <Tm_T> GTRsdk: hi, do you recall why you were banned on -offtopic?
[05:23] <GTRsdk> Tm_T: Yes. I was banned because I shared a link that first went to a page filled with ads which would generate a very small amount of money before reaching the real content.
[05:24] <Tm_T> ok, I think the amount of money is irrelevant
[05:25] <Tm_T> I wonder why did you do that
[05:25] <GTRsdk> I was silly enough to think that it would be worth sharing the web page that way
[05:28] <Tm_T> so you wanted to get money out of fellow ubuntuers?
[05:28] <GTRsdk> I know.. it's wrong...
[05:30] <Tm_T> looks like you joined to channel, posted the link without even explaining what it is...
[05:31] <GTRsdk> it was very poorly planned and very poorly organized...
[05:33] <Tm_T> GTRsdk: I suppose you're already familiar with our guidelines?
[05:33] <GTRsdk> I should probably re read through them (and very carefully this time)
[05:35] <Tm_T> GTRsdk: I won't let you in until I'm convinced you will show more respect to your fellow citizens in the channel (:
[05:36] <Tm_T> !guidelines > GTRsdk
[05:39] <GTRsdk> I was already reading it (already asked the bot about !guidelines), but now is that considered being annoying?
[05:40] <Tm_T> spam/scam links are way worse than being just annoying
[05:43] <GTRsdk> You're right. I guess I'd be pretty mad if any time someone shared a link with me, I would have to see $seconds of ads before seeing what the page is about.
[05:44] <Tm_T> hmm, I feel you're missing the point
[05:45] <GTRsdk> is the point that Ubuntu is free not because of ads, but because of people who were willing to donate hours to provide what we have now?
[05:45] <GTRsdk> so then I should do the same and not corrupt links I share?
[05:46] <Tm_T> #ubuntu-offtopic is not a channel (or any channel if you ask me) where you come and share spam/scam links
[05:47] <Tm_T> you didn't give explanation in channel even when asked
[05:48] <Tm_T> indicates to me that your sole purpose was to get money out of others
[05:49] <Tm_T> biggest problem is the attitude toward others this is showing
[05:52] <GTRsdk> Yes. And I know now that it is wrong.
[05:57] <GTRsdk> The main goal was to share that it was my birthday that day. But then I grabbed a link, corruptified it, then shared it. I sould've just have plain old said it in plain text...
[06:03] <GTRsdk> I suppose sharing links like that would be considered disrespectful
[06:04] <Tm_T> suppose? considered? (:
[06:05] <GTRsdk> It is disrespectful. I'm so sorry.
[06:07] <GTRsdk> I won't ever do something like that again.
[06:07] <Tm_T> GTRsdk: oaight, I want to discuss with other op involved on this before proceeding, could you come back later?
[06:12] <pangolin> GTRsdk: you can't idle in here, so please let Tm_T know that you will be back sometime in the next 24 hours and then part this channel.
[12:37] <vibhav> Can I get my ban on #ubuntu removed?
[12:38] <ikonia> vibhav: I'm happy to put you back into #ubuntu but muted
[12:38] <vibhav> ikonia: I wanted support
[12:38] <ikonia> you've lost that privilege
[12:38] <vibhav> I promise i will  not offer support
[12:39] <ikonia> vibhav: you said that last time and you where trying to help when you dodged the ban, I fully see that you where trying to help and on that occasion you did not cause a problem, that said you did get around a ban knowingly, and you did try to offer help despite being told not to do that
[12:40] <ikonia> vibhav: it's a real problem for the team to have you in #ubuntu as you can't be trusted to do what you've agreed to do, which means we have to watch you all the time you are in the channel making sure you are not giving people bad advice
[12:40] <vibhav> Well , I not help people this time
[12:40] <ikonia> I'm sorry if that seems a little rude, but I'm just trying to explain why it's tricky
[12:40] <ikonia> vibhav you said "I won't help people" last time, yet you dodged a mute and started to try to help people
[12:41] <ikonia> which means you can't be trusted on your word
[12:41] <ikonia> 2 minutes, be back
[12:44] <ikonia> sorry about that, just had to grab someone before they walked out of the door
[12:44] <vibhav> never mind
[12:44] <vibhav> I really promise
[12:45] <ikonia> vibhav: how is "promise" different from "really promise"
[12:45] <ikonia> you've promised many times not to do $X
[12:45] <ikonia> vibhav: I'm not trying to be awkward, but you see the position you've built up
[12:45] <ikonia> yet you still do it
[12:45] <ikonia> so "I really promise" means you either cannot keep your promises or you where not really promising last time
[12:45] <ikonia> either way, we have to sit and watch what you say in the channel if we unmute you, which is quite a resource eater
[12:46] <ikonia> I've discussed this with other members of the team in the past (the others can chip in if they want)
[12:46] <ikonia> it's a real dilema about how to allow you back into #ubuntu safley
[12:47] <vibhav> I reaaly promise
[12:47] <ikonia> vibhav: if you have any suggestions (that are realisitic) beyond "I promise", I'd genuinly be interested in hearing them
[12:47] <ikonia> come on - "I promise" doesn't wash, you've said that 10 times and let us down
[12:47] <vibhav> I have no other words to express
[12:47] <ikonia> I appreciate that the wording is limited,
[12:47] <vibhav> Last chance?
[12:47] <vibhav> I mean it
[12:48] <ikonia> you've had a last chance - that's why you are now banned
[12:48] <ikonia> vibhav: sit in our chair for a moment
[12:48] <ikonia> everytime you've been in the channel you've caused a problem with your advice, we've spoke to you about it, you've agreed not to do it, then done it again, this has happened many times
[12:48] <ikonia> each time you've said "I won't do that - I promise", yet you do repeat it
[12:48] <vibhav> I dont do it intentionally
[12:48] <ikonia> how can we have confidence in you saying "I promise"
[12:49] <vibhav> Ill only offer advice when its in my scenario
[12:49] <ikonia> vibhav I can believe you don't do it intentionally, but that then means that we can't trust you to monitor/control yourself
[12:49] <ikonia> vibhav: you don't have a scenario
[12:49] <ikonia> oops
[12:50] <ikonia> welcome back
[12:50] <vibhav> Sorry , terminal crashed
[12:50] <ikonia> don't worry,
[12:50] <vibhav> I have nothing else to say what I really mean
[12:51] <vibhav> But I  promise ill triple check my advice
[12:51] <ikonia> vibhav: I understand that.
[12:51] <ikonia> ughh, please stop saying you promise
[12:51] <ikonia> you've said that before and let us down
[12:51] <ikonia> and now you've moved from "I won't offer advice" to "I'll check my advice"
[12:52] <ikonia> this is what's worrying you can't control yourself from promising to not offer advice less than 2 minutes ago, to "I'll check my advice"
[12:52] <vibhav> Ill check my advicxe (if giving any , (Only if its in my scenario))
[12:52] <ikonia> vibhav: how can you move from promising not to give advice, to checking your advice when giving it
[12:52] <ikonia> you've just changed your promise before you've even had chance to be let back into the channel
[12:53] <ikonia> vibhav: what do you need help with - lets see if we can help you while I try to get some advice/direction about how to proceed
[12:53] <vibhav> I needed to know if I can PXE boot an ISO
[12:54] <ikonia> vibhav: you can in certain situations
[12:54] <vibhav> Am I getting help here?
[12:55] <ikonia> vibhav: do you want to boot the iso image, or the contents of the iso
[12:55] <vibhav> ikonia: The ISO image , (Ubuntu 11.10)
[12:55] <ikonia> vibhav: I'm trying to help you yes, as I don't want you to not have help, but until I get some more opinions/advice from others I'm not confident with you in #ubuntu
[12:55] <vibhav> ok
[12:55] <ikonia> vibhav: if you mount the iso you can do it
[12:56] <vibhav> I mounted the ISO
[12:56] <ikonia> I don't believe you can do it as an iso image as the pxeboot isn't smart enough to expand that
[12:56] <ikonia> vibhav: if the ISO is mounted, then it's just a flat file system as far as pxebooting is concerned
[12:57] <vibhav> ok
[12:57] <ikonia> there may well be a method to boot the iso image directly but I'm not aware of it nor can I understand how that works
[12:57] <ikonia> http://kleeschulte.blogspot.com/2008/04/how-to-take-bootable-cdrom-image-and.html
[12:57] <ikonia> there is an interesting article that suggests it's do-able
[12:57] <ikonia> I've not don that, nor am I confident in it
[12:57] <ikonia> done
[12:58] <ikonia> that's just mounting though the same as I suggest, to an extent
[12:58] <ikonia> vibhav: does that help ?
[12:58] <vibhav> thanks
[12:59] <vibhav> I shall try that
[16:14] <Lint> what the hell was this?
[16:14] <ikonia> Lint: gstreamer has "retarded" dependencies ?
[16:14] <ikonia> Lint: you've been asked many times now to look at what you say and how you talk in the channel and you don't seem to get it
[16:14] <ikonia> I can't be bothered trying to explain it to you any more - so you've now been banned from #ubuntu
[16:15] <ikonia> I suggest you go away and think about how you talk when using channels
[16:15] <Lint> you have problems with the word retarded?
[16:15] <ikonia> yeah, pretty much
[16:16] <Lint> it's a literature word
[16:16] <ikonia> Lint: would you find it acceptable if I said "you are retarded as you don't seem to be able to grasp the channel rules"
[16:16] <ikonia> Lint: no, it's not a nice word to use to describe something
[16:16] <ikonia> Lint: many words are in the dictionary and literature, it doesn't make them acceptable
[16:16] <ikonia> either way, I'm not discussing this with you at this time - go and think about what's been said to you many times
[16:17] <Lint> it's an international channel so I don't understand why you cause problems with that U$ political correctness
[16:17] <ikonia> it's not US
[16:17] <ikonia> I'm not from the US
[16:17] <ikonia> retardard isn't an polite way to say something in any country
[16:17] <ikonia> Lint: so please leave the channel and have a think about how you participate
[16:18] <Myrtti> I don't see what purpose the word served in your ques...
[16:19] <maco> "it's a literature word"? mark twain wrote literature. he wrote literature that included a number of racist characters saying racist things. that doesn't make racist things ok.
[16:20] <ikonia> the guy just likes to rant about things, he's had enough warnings, he knows what he's doing
[16:32] <ikonia> looks like lint has some anti usa issue
[16:32] <ikonia> 05:08 < vbrummond> Lint, lol, and every bug has a reason considering it doesnt happen on mine it has to be hardware/driver specific
[16:32] <ikonia> 05:08 < Lint> vbrummond, it does happen on your
[16:32] <ikonia> 05:08 < Lint> you just american
[16:33] <ikonia> and when his ranting about debian being slow and USA only continues
[16:33] <ikonia> 05:15 < simonlnu> Lint: be quiet
[16:33] <ikonia> so I guess it's not ubuntu he's angry at it's just "anything" that he can use as a ranting platform
[16:34] <ikonia> as soon as he was banned from #ubuntu he re-joined debian, so I expect it's just any excuse to rant
[16:35] <jpds> maco: That sounds like something lost in translation.
[16:52] <GTRsdk> Is this time okay?
[16:58] <ikonia> GTRsdk: sorry wasn't ignoring you, had too many other discussions going on
[16:58] <GTRsdk> okay
[17:02] <ikonia> GTRsdk: sorry about that, just finished up another conversation
[17:02] <ikonia> GTRsdk: I'm assuming you want to re-join #ubuntu-offtopic based on your conversation with Tm_T earlier ?
[17:02] <GTRsdk> Yes
[17:03] <ikonia> ok - I've made my feelings to Tm_T clear that I don't believe you should be unbanned at this time as what you did was totally unacceptable and you lied multiple times about why you did it
[17:04] <ikonia> but I also said it was up to him what to do as he'd spoken to you.
[17:06] <ikonia> it doesn't look like Tm_T is active at the moment sadly.
[17:13] <ikonia> GTRsdk: looks like Tm_T's not around, I don't believe you should be unbanned at this time so I'm not going to do it, I suggest trying back later
[17:14] <GTRsdk> Okay
[19:11] <zykotick9> LjL: I don't agree with your "don't send !listers...".  The ciao/hola followed by !list is SO common.  Directing them to their native language channel (where there is at least the possibility that someone will explain the issues involved, in a language they can understand) seems to me to be the best method "users" have to deal with the problem.  We all aren't ops that can just kick users like you ;)
[19:17] <zykotick9> LjL: well, when you see me do it next time, feel free to kick/ban me.
[19:17] <mneptok> we need to make a list of the number of times how to deal with this issue has come up, put that list in public webspace, and change the !list factoid
[19:18] <zykotick9> mneptok: do you have a suggestion on how "users" should deal with this?
[19:18] <mneptok> zykotick9: nothing that hasn't been prepared better by other chefs.
[19:19] <mneptok> burning DCC to the ground comes to mind. hardly helpful.
[19:20] <zykotick9> that would be ideal ;)  I'll get out of your way.  Thanks OPs!
[19:43] <LjL> meh
[19:44] <LjL> -it people have no intention to "explain the issues involved"
[19:44] <LjL> no more than we have
[19:45] <mneptok> vada. a. bordo.
[19:48] <LjL> fortunately, i haven't seen a single one of these !list people ever go into #ubuntu-it when redirected there
[19:48] <LjL> they just ignore all input
[19:53] <LjL> !list
[19:54] <Myrtti> I wonder how it should be formed so they'd catch and understand what it means
[19:54] <LjL> !no list is <reply> No warez here! This is not a file sharing channel (or network); read the channel topic. If you're looking for information about me, type « /msg ubottu !bot ». If you're looking for a channel, see « /msg ubottu !alis ».
[19:54] <LjL> like this
[19:54] <LjL> although, it requires them to read it in the first place
[19:54] <LjL> which i doubt they do
[19:57] <ikonia> this may be stupid but is it worth either having that in Italian or having !list-it
[19:57] <Myrtti> ITALIAN MIRC COLOURS
[19:57] <ikonia> or have the bot msg anyone with a .it address "don't bother !listing in here ";)
[19:57] <Myrtti> (ie. flag)
[19:58] <Myrtti> :-P

[19:59] <Myrtti> just running out of tools
[21:07] <pangolin> heya guntbert :)
[21:07] <guntbert> hi, playing with supybot I learnt that !list is the command to get the loaded plugins  - might it be that the factoid !list is worded completely wrong, by assuming they are looking for warez?
[21:08] <guntbert> pangolin: :)
[21:08] <pangolin> I doubt that many people are looking for the loaded plugins
[21:09] <mneptok> guntbert: why the frequency of .it people then?
[21:09] <pangolin> I wonder if that would be an admin only command
[21:10] <guntbert> mneptok: I cannot explain - it was just an idea (in the line "never attribute to malicious intent what can be explained by 2error")
[21:10] <guntbert> "error"
[21:10] <mneptok> guntbert: exactly.
[21:11] <guntbert> pangolin: try it, join ##guntbert and say !list
[21:11] <mneptok> guntbert: you ascribe malicious intent toward the bot. we're approaching it from "stupid warezers"
[21:12] <Unit193> And keep in mind the default command char for supybot is in fact @, not !
[21:12] <guntbert> mneptok: oops - I didn't think of that danger at all ...  - well I suppose you are right in your judgement :)
[21:13] <guntbert> so lets let it lie -- have a nice time
[21:13] <mneptok> guntbert: you may enter the Bonus Chamber for 12 seconds for at least thinking about it. grab all the coins and strawberries you can in the time provided.
[21:14] <guntbert> grab grab grab gra-
[21:14] <mneptok> LEVEL UP!
[21:14] <guntbert> time over :-(
[21:18] <Myrtti> as a bonus addition, I've seen that behaviour in IRCnet since time immemorial
[21:19] <pangolin> that's a long time
[21:19] <pangolin> How old are you anyway?
[21:20] <Myrtti> in IRC years 14
[21:20]  * mneptok wonders if Myrtti has seen "a/s/l" on IRCnet since time imemorial
[21:20] <Myrtti> yes, I have.
[21:21] <mneptok> w4nn4 (yb3R?
[21:21]  * Myrtti punches mneptok with a Nokia 2110
[21:21] <mneptok> aaaaaaaaand ... now i need another shower. dumb.
[21:22] <mneptok> just typing that ... oh god ... it burns ...
[21:23] <mneptok> no shower. instead, i'll just go for a ride in this 60F/15C sunny weather. enjoy .fi and .qc, fellow non-idlers.  >:P
[21:23] <pangolin> later gator
[21:24] <mneptok> back on the motorcycle in February. monkey like very much.
[21:24] <pangolin> I hate you :(
[21:58] <Silverlion> hi
[22:33] <Silverlion> pretty quiet in here
[22:33] <pangolin> that is how we like it :)
[22:33] <pangolin> hello Silverlion
[22:34] <Silverlion> moving over to -team then
[23:14] <elky> just fyi: * Chat7994<EMAIL_ADDRESS>has joined #ubuntu-women                 <Chat7994> Send pics<PHONE_NUMBER>
[23:14] <elky> oh crap, wrong ops channel. that shouldn't be in logs.
[23:15] <bazhang> lovely
[23:15] <bazhang> he seems to have logged off now
[23:17] <pangolin> what is the email to request that be removed from the log?
[23:23]  * Myrtti raises an eyebrow at mcurrans quit message
[23:24] <Silverlion> Myrtti: ??
[23:25] <Myrtti> [01:23] *** mcurran [~mcurran@unaffiliated/mcurran] has quit [Quit: LATA  BITCHES!]
[23:25] <pangolin> from ?
[23:25] <Myrtti> #ubuntu
[23:39] <Silverlion> do we have an age behind this nick?
 ima li ovde neko iz Srbije ?
[23:51] <bazhang> Serbian perhaps?
[23:51] <knome> well most probably
[23:51] <bazhang> !sr
[23:52] <knome> unless "srbije" means "welsh"
[23:52] <knome> ;)
[23:52] <bazhang> cymru!
[23:52] <knome> right, that


[02:18] <Pwnna> how do you get around the virtualbox black screen?
[02:18] <Pwnna> or corrupted screen?
[02:19] <pleia2> Pwnna: check out the release announcement (it has instructions) and other things worthy of note: http://xubuntu.org/news/14-10-release/
[02:19] <Pwnna> pleia2: thanks!
[02:19] <Pwnna> i missed it!
[02:20] <pleia2> sure thing :)
[02:20] <pleia2> it's been a real pain during virtualized testing this cycle, was a shame we couldn't get it fixed :(
[02:22] <Pwnna> i see fixed released
[02:22] <Pwnna> so if you apt-get upgrade it should be fine?
[02:22] <Pwnna> also => has anyone have trouble with the kernel that came out two days ago? I can't boot anymore with an encrypted partition
[02:24] <pleia2> looks like the person who marked it fix released believes it was fixed in the daily yesterday, but I don't know who they are
[02:25] <pleia2> (and their launchpad info is...sparse)
[02:27] <Pwnna> okay
[02:27] <Pwnna> another quick question. i noticed xubuntu-restricted extras
[02:27] <Pwnna> is that what i'm supposed to be installing instead of ubuntu-restricted-extras?
[02:28] <pleia2> it's the same thing
[02:28] <Pwnna> i see slightly different packages installed, though
[02:29] <pleia2> Source: ubuntu-restricted-extras
[02:29]  * pleia2 shrugs
[02:36] <Pwnna> is there like an equivilant of a commit log for xubuntu so i know what changed?
[02:37] <Pwnna> i manage a couple of boxes and it's sometimes a pain to upgrade versions as i have conflicting provisioning
[02:38] <pleia2> it's only per package
[02:38] <pleia2> no "all changes in all of xubuntu" massive changelog
[02:39] <pleia2> changelogs for a package will live in /usr/share/doc/PACKAGENAME
[02:40] <pleia2> I need to get some rest
[02:40] <pleia2> have a good $time_of_day :)
[02:40] <Pwnna> night
[04:03] <bluesabre> Pwnna: heading to bed myself... but we have a pretty comprehensive changelog on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu
[04:07] <bluesabre> you can view individual debian/ubuntu changelogs here http://packages.ubuntu.com/utopic/xfce4-power-manager (replace with the package name)
[04:07] <bluesabre> heading to bed for real now
[05:38] <Unit193> pleia2: THe source package can be basically anything though, ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu contains the Xubuntu one too.  But yeah, don't think there's really much different between those two.
[07:24] <elfy> Found Ubuntu Vivid Vervet (development branch) (15.04) on /dev/sda8
[07:26] <Unit193> Not that early I'm not. :P
[07:27] <elfy> lol
[07:27] <elfy> not in it atm - installed it and got it in grub
[07:28] <elfy> every cycle I tell myself I'll sort out some other way of what to install in a clean one - and each cycle I resort to memory :)
[09:15] <knome> bluesabre, tweeted your 14.10 article from @Xubuntu
[09:16] <elfy> morning knome
[09:16] <knome> hey elfy
[09:17]  * elfy really wants to see 1 ppa that he can use for updates etc this cycle :)
[09:18] <knome> 1 ppa... that might be too much to ask:P
[09:18] <knome> but yeah, it should be mostly coordinated
[09:19] <elfy> I figure that at the least I should be updated to things *dev* are expecting to release *soon*
[09:20] <elfy> I guess that'd be the staging one
[09:20]  * knome drops the PPA descriptions to the processes page for completeness
[09:21] <elfy> bit hard to see the wood from the trees on the pad
[09:21] <knome> ^ hope that'll help
[09:23] <elfy> knome: done or doing?
[09:24] <knome> doing
[09:24] <elfy> awesome sauce
[09:27] <knome> the wiki just went slow
[09:27] <knome> it was bearable until now
[09:30] <knome> 500 Internal Server Erorr
[09:30] <knome> *Error
[09:30]  * knome sighs
[09:32] <knome> ok, done
[09:33] <knome> updating the wiki pages for vivid
[09:37] <knome> done
[09:53] <elfy> knome: thanks - can see processes change
[09:53] <knome> great
[09:54] <elfy> knome: though I'm still not sure which of those two people will send things I need to see to though :)
[09:55] <knome> staging
[09:55] <knome> extras is just "nice things to have"
[09:55] <elfy> cool - now we just need to make sure people use it lol
[09:55] <knome> like "hey, there's this new cool piece of software, you might want to use this"
[09:55] <elfy> yep - understand now
[09:56] <Unit193> ^ Mainly mine. :P
[09:56] <knome> elfy, and kind of pre-staging
[09:56] <knome> "let's see if we want to start the process of getting this included in the repos"
[09:58] <elfy> and where's that?
[09:58] <knome> ^ that's the extras PPA
[10:24] <Unit193> Generally not one you'd be interested in. :P
[10:24] <elfy> guessed :)
[11:36] <bluesabre> elfy: early in the cycle, things that land in debian sync their way over to xubuntu automatically.  We can add more daily things to -staging if you'd like though
[11:36] <bluesabre> we can even add daily xubuntu-default-settings to staging
[11:37] <elfy> bluesabre: mostly it's about *our* things as far as I'm concerned
[11:37] <elfy> we don't test 99% of what we install - other than making sure it doesn't all go bang :)
[11:38] <elfy> all I'm interested in QA being interested in is the stuff we've got a modicum of control over
[11:38] <bluesabre> ok
[11:38] <elfy> so yea - things like xubuntu-* :)
[11:38] <bluesabre> alrighty, I'll set daily xubuntu- and shimmer- packages to the -staging ppa
[11:39] <elfy> that would be a good start :)
[11:39] <knome> wait
[11:39] <knome> i'm not sure if that's how we imagined the PPA
[11:40] <knome> i think it's fine to do that
[11:40] <knome> but if we do that, we should change the description of the PPA
[11:40] <knome> well, nvm
[11:40] <knome> i guess the current description is fine
[11:41] <knome> just wasn't my mindset ;)
[11:41] <bluesabre> yeah, if it's xubuntu-/shimmer- we clearly plan on a nearby release
[11:41] <knome> i was considering the daily aspect
[11:41] <knome> but the description covers that
[11:42] <knome> though i guess there's still that question
[11:42] <knome> should -staging be a "high traffic" PPA
[11:42] <knome> or should we separate the daily builds
[11:42] <knome> probably not
[11:43] <elfy> frankly I don't care what we call it - what the description is - all I need is that we have a ppa that DOES include the things that *we* are updating and having them in one place so we can test things as they arrive
[11:43] <knome> as long as it doesn't turn into a daily buildfest of everything we seed ;)
[11:43] <knome> i'm just considering the practicalities
[11:43] <bluesabre> that'd probably be more of a daily breakfest
[11:44] <knome> if using a staging PPA requires me to download 400 megs of updates, it's almost as bad as just downloading the new ISO :P
[11:44] <knome> (daily, that is, it doesn't matter if that happens now and then)
[11:44] <elfy> if the ppa is pointed at dev then how many people will see it now - and for that matter between now and March?
[11:44] <bluesabre> yeah, that makes sense
[11:44] <elfy> if the ppa isn't pointed at dev - then we need one that is I guess
[11:45] <elfy> if someone wants to add a ppa we use to test dev stuff into a trusty install that's their issue to deal with
[11:45] <knome> elfy, i'm not worrying about the end-users... to begin with, i'm worried about the team willing to do the updates daily
[11:46] <knome> or bi-daily, or a few times in a week
[11:46] <knome> it's a bit meh if it's a huge load every time
[11:46] <elfy> well ...
[11:47] <elfy> how many -team ran utopic ? how many are running it now? how many even knew what it looked like at the beginning of cycle?
[11:47] <bluesabre> a good portion of team run with the stable until pretty late in the cycle
[11:47] <knome> well,
[11:47] <elfy> frankly I would wonder about anyone but me seeing what's going on with vampire for months
[11:47] <knome> shouldn't the staging PPA be for several releases anyway?
[11:47] <knome> if it is, people who run a non-development version can help as well
[11:48] <knome> but they probably don't want to do it if it involves downloading hundreds of megs of updates every day
[11:48] <bluesabre> the systemd transition is planned for the first half of the cycle... I might avoid running as my fulltime install until that lands
[11:48] <elfy> then it's just pointless and I'll be back to adding ppas all over the place and having no idea what's going on - again
[11:49] <bluesabre> I think we've done a good job of consolidating the PPAs
[11:49] <knome> elfy, i think you're getting me wrong
[11:49] <elfy> knome: possibly ;)
[11:49] <knome> what i'm saying is that
[11:49] <bluesabre> if anybody does a new build we want, we copy it to one of our three official PPAs
[11:49] <knome> since all of -team is not going to run the development version
[11:49] <knome> it's better to allow them to test the new *packages* with their versions
[11:50] <knome> which is why the staging PPA should have packages for other releases as well
[11:50] <knome> BUT
[11:50] <knome> i don't think it should turn into a daily buildfest that means we'll get hundreds of megs of updates daily
[11:50] <knome> it's not going to do that currently
[11:50] <knome> i'm not opposed to adding xubuntu-default-settings
[11:50] <elfy> right
[11:50] <knome> but we should consider what's the scope of that PPA
[11:51] <knome> eg. i don't necessarily want all xfce packages there
[11:51] <knome> or "half of gnome"
[11:51] <knome> because we're preparing a small bugfix for those packages
[11:51] <knome> or sth
[11:51] <bluesabre> I need to head to work, but can you guys paste the result of this discussion over to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-v-dev ?
[11:51] <elfy> I want a ppa that has up to date ANYTHING that we care about in it
[11:51] <elfy> I don't want last months menulibre - I want todays
[11:51] <knome> elfy, would it be too bad if it was 2-3 PPA's?
[11:51] <elfy> what's the point in testing that ?
[11:52] <knome> theoretically, that is
[11:52] <bluesabre> for things like that... I release menulibre, then upload it to debian, then it syncs to xubuntu in 24 hours
[11:52] <elfy> there should be a today ppa - with all that we care about
[11:52] <knome> define "all that we care about"
[11:52] <knome> everything that is seeded in xubuntu?
[11:53] <elfy> no - the things we've got control over
[11:53] <knome> right, so i think that's what you'd call staging
[11:53] <elfy> I couldn't care less about something I've got because xubuntu is based on ubuntu
[11:53] <knome> or what i'd call staging, that is
[11:53] <bluesabre> bbl
[11:53] <knome> hf bluesabre
[11:53] <elfy> cya later bluesabre
[11:54] <knome> elfy, just let's not make that a bloated PPA with too much stuff
[11:54] <elfy> knome: as I said I don't care what it's called - or what it's description is - as long as it has up to date things
[11:54] <knome> so it's less of a thresold to actually start using it
[11:55] <elfy> knome: yea - I don't want a ppa with half an iso in it :)
[11:55] <knome> and as bluesabre said, we probably want to land stuff to debian where appropriate
[11:55] <knome> like menulibre
[11:55] <knome> those packages are naturally not available for people not running the development version... but that's another question
[11:55] <elfy> can we please not get sidetracked on packages that land elsewhere
[11:55] <elfy> you know what I'm talking about
[11:56] <knome> we're not sidetracking; you mentioned menulibre previously
[11:56] <elfy> as an example - choose another one
[11:56] <knome> lol
[11:56] <knome> mugshot then
[11:56] <elfy> it's pretty obvious what I'm looking for here
[11:56] <knome> is that even in debian?
[11:56] <elfy> oh good lord
[11:56] <knome> sure
[11:57] <knome> to me, it's ok if some packages lag behind a few days if they're going through to debian and synced back
[11:57] <knome> and the reason why i'm saying this is
[11:58] <knome> that i don't think those packages necessarily need to be in -staging
[11:58] <knome> which i'm sure you agree with
[11:58] <elfy> depends what package you're talking about
[11:58] <knome> pretty much anything that will go to debian anyway
[11:59] <elfy> does xubuntu-default-settings go anywhere?
[11:59] <elfy> do any of the xubuntu-* go anywhere?
[11:59] <knome> sure, they can go to the daily PPA
[11:59] <knome> probably not xubuntu-docs
[11:59] <knome> well, even that depends
[12:00] <knome> probably not as daily builds :)
[12:00] <elfy> I;m not sure I've got the patience to do PPAs again :|
[12:00] <knome> but we can certainly use -staging for staging big changes there
[12:00] <knome> and before, when i said daily PPA, i meant the -staging PPA...
[12:00] <knome> so just one PPA still
[12:05] <elfy> I just really am having a hard job understanding why it's not obvious that I'd want to have the latest theme/settings/versions to test
[12:05] <elfy> no-one else tests the whole shebang in team
[12:06] <elfy> if it's that hard to do or understand then I'll not bother and I'll just test what I get from the standard repos
[12:14] <bluesabre> we have daily builds for everything in the various project PPAs (menulibre-developers, parole-developers, shimmer-developers), we can also have then build to -staging.  Or just the various themes and xubuntu things. At the same time, we don't want to rely exclusively on the PPAs because then we might not notice if some things are never actually uploaded to xubuntu.  We'll have to do a careful balance
[12:15] <bluesabre> just food for though
[12:15] <bluesabre> t
[12:15] <bluesabre> out again, bbl
[12:15] <elfy> cya
[12:16] <elfy> let's see if I can break nvidia and vbox today
[12:17] <elfy> I guess I'm just still confused about the PPA situation - I thought that we were going to deal with it all
[12:21] <elfy> brb
[12:25] <ochosi> oh wow, lotsa backlog
[12:26] <ochosi> i'll catch up later today, out for lunch
[12:26] <knome> bluesabre, agreed
[12:26] <knome> off ->
[12:30] <elfy> well nvidia isn't broken :)
[14:48] <pleia2> Unit193: ah, thanks :)
[17:17] <ochosi> bluesabre: awesome post on 14.10!
[17:53] <ochosi> hey sergio-br2
[17:54] <sergio-br2> hey ochosi :)
[17:54] <ochosi> how're things?
[17:54] <elfy> evening ochosi
[17:54] <ochosi> oh hey elfy :)
[17:54] <sergio-br2> everything fine ochosi, and you?
[17:54] <ochosi> quite good
[17:54] <ochosi> had an important deadline today
[17:55] <ochosi> so i'm exhausted/relaxed
[17:55] <ochosi> can't really decide which one it is :)
[17:55] <elfy> awesome :)
[17:56] <slickymasterWork> lol
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> join the club ochosi
[17:57]  * ochosi signs the papers and joins slickymasterWork's club
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> welcome aborad
[17:57] <slickymasterWork> *aboard
[17:57] <elfy> or abroad - depends which country this club is in :p
[17:58] <ochosi> sergio-br2: i saw there were quite a few new icons in elementary, but dan is a lazy bastard and only does a single size mostly...
[17:58] <ochosi> hehe
[17:58] <sergio-br2> heh
[17:58] <slickymasterWork> on top of it all I managed to screw my Verocius Velociraptor box
[17:58] <elfy> \o/
[17:58] <ochosi> sergio-br2: so yeah, if you feel like it again, join me in scaling icons ;)
[17:58] <elfy> well done slickymasterWork :)
[17:58] <sergio-br2> i need to comeback to elementary-xfce
[17:58] <sergio-br2> ok
[17:58] <slickymasterWork> bah
[17:58] <sergio-br2> i think i have some icons here, that i didn't commit yet
[17:59] <ochosi> slickymasterWork: wait, no animal coitus talk in this channel!
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> ah ah ah
[17:59] <ochosi> that said, i hope he didn't scratch you
[17:59] <ochosi> sergio-br2: oh, in that case please push them :)
[17:59] <slickymasterWork> the other way around
[17:59] <ochosi> sergio-br2: i'd like to scale the new trash icons, those look nice. but lots of work...
[18:00] <sergio-br2> work in this icon theme seems infinity :)
[18:01] <ochosi> yeah
[18:01] <ochosi> well we can always decide to stop
[18:01] <ochosi> it won't really break much
[18:01] <ochosi> but yeah, with gtk3 evolving and gnome needing new icons every release, i guess maintenance never ends
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> ERROR: Kernel configuration is invalid.";
[18:03] <slickymasterWork>  include/generated/autoconf.h or include/config/auto.conf are missing.";
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> Run 'make oldconfig && make prepare' on kernel src to fix it.";
[18:03] <slickymasterWork> >_<
[18:04] <elfy> well I never need to do any of that ....
[18:04] <slickymasterWork> that's 3.18rc1 for you elfy ;)
[18:04] <elfy> :p
[18:05] <slickymasterWork> can't get more cutting edge than that :P
[18:09] <slickymasterWork> \o/
[18:09] <slickymasterWork> fixed
[18:09] <slickymasterWork> back in business
[18:11] <slickymasterWork> running home
[18:11] <slickymasterWork> cy later guys ->
[18:41] <brainwash> elfy: any news why the qt theming is broken all of the sudden?
[18:41] <brainwash> I does not look like it's xubuntu's fault I'd guess
[18:54] <knome> ok, all mirrors on the download page are now synced
[18:59] <ochosi> brainwash: i think it's not broken, it just doesn't use the gtk+ look by default
[19:04] <brainwash> ochosi: not anymore, maybe it can be fixed somehow for xubuntu
[19:06] <ochosi> not anymore?
[19:06] <ochosi> what i meant was: qt apps don't use the gtk look by default, but if you install qt4-qtconfig and set the style to gtk it works
[19:06] <ochosi> so it's not broken in this sense, it just uses the wrong setting
[19:08] <brainwash> it seems to work fine in 14.04, people just started to complain this recently
[19:08] <brainwash> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2249765
[19:09] <brainwash> bug 1382741
[19:10] <ochosi> yeah, i know
[19:10] <ochosi> as i said...
[19:10] <ochosi> i noticed it too, but only on monday, so it was too late for 14.10
[19:10] <ochosi> also, i noticed it and forgot about it again, cause i was a bit too busy
[19:11] <brainwash> ah, ok
[19:11] <brainwash> it's a candidate for the known issues list
[19:11] <ochosi> yup, indeed
[19:12] <brainwash> can the list be edited after release?
[19:14] <ochosi> i guess so, never had to do that so far
[19:15] <ochosi> knome: any experience with editing the known issues list after the release?
[19:18] <elfy> our bit of it?
[19:18] <elfy> ochosi: ^^ or the main that we just include
[19:19] <ochosi> our bit
[19:19] <elfy> brainwash: I've never really had qt apps look ok without using qt config to set it to use gtk+
[19:19] <elfy> ochosi: just edit it - it's our wiki
[19:20] <elfy> brainwash: it never worked fine in trusty - at least now with qt stuff I had
[19:20] <ochosi> wait, but this one isn't editable: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseNotes/Xubuntu
[19:20] <elfy> yes it is
[19:20] <ochosi> oh right
[19:21] <elfy> at least it is here
[19:21] <ochosi> i was just confused by "immutable page"
[19:21] <elfy> oh - you not logged in?
[19:22] <ochosi> i wasnt for some reason
[19:22] <elfy> :)
[19:22] <ochosi> added that line
[19:22] <ochosi> brainwash: was there a bugreport for this already?
[19:25] <brainwash> I've linked it
[19:25] <ochosi> oh, whoopsie
[19:25]  * ochosi is tired
[19:26] <brainwash> mmh, so it is a new bug after all? elfy?
[19:26] <elfy> what is?
[19:26] <ochosi> anyway, gotta head out for dinner, will check in again later
[19:26] <ochosi> this probably needs more investigation tomorrow
[19:26] <brainwash> qt theming
[19:26] <elfy> cya later ochosi
[19:26] <ochosi> yup, cyalater
[19:26] <brainwash> bye
[19:27] <elfy> qt theming didn't work for me properly in utopic, trusty and saucy - but then I only use clementine
[19:27] <elfy> so no - it's not new - at least not to me
[19:28] <brainwash> I noticed that more and more people talk about the broken theme in qt apps
[19:28] <brainwash> and they all use 14.10
[19:28] <elfy> perhaps people are just using more qt apps
[19:29] <brainwash> like vlc? people are using this one for ages already
[19:29] <elfy> brainwash: I never really take a lot of notice of that type of issue - if we seeded it I might
[19:30] <brainwash> adding a small hint for xubuntu users should do the job
[19:30] <elfy> yep - I never even thought about mentioning I always have to install qt config tool tbh :)
[19:31] <brainwash> ok then :)
[19:32] <elfy> posted on forum thread
[19:36] <brainwash> awesome, thanks
[19:37] <elfy> oh - that bug I posted in with the qt4 config thingy ...
[19:44] <elfy> also that's 2 issues I guess
[20:23] <elfy> knome: so did you mean the release notes?
[20:24] <knome> no
[20:24] <elfy> yep - saw :)
[20:24] <knome> :)
[20:25] <elfy> knome: the online stuff - our xubuntu-docs ?
[20:26] <elfy> because it's in there
[20:27] <knome> right..
[20:27] <knome> maybe we should rethink the wording
[20:27] <knome> that section immediately thinks that the user wants the latest regular release
[20:27] <elfy> yea was just looking - if nothing else we can talk about more recent releases :p
[20:28] <elfy> yep - I'd say two distinct sections - LTS and non I would have thought
[20:28] <knome> yep
[20:28] <knome> something like that
[20:28] <knome> i'll file a bug
[20:28] <elfy> yep
[20:29] <elfy> I can look at writing it perhaps - but I'm not sure I've got whatever docs use
[20:29] <elfy> or if not I can pad it for whoever does fix it
[20:31] <knome> bug 1385479
[20:32] <elfy> confirmed that
[20:36] <knome> thanks, and added a comment
[20:40] <elfy> oh - lordy - that's in an xml file - not playing with that ;)
[20:41] <knome> lol
[20:41] <knome> well
[20:41] <knome> docbook is relatively easy
[20:41] <knome> as long as you just follow the example (which is carefully set in the docs), you are fine
[20:41] <elfy> so's wiring a jumbo jet ;)
[20:41] <knome> heh
[20:42] <knome> i don't mind if you write it in plaintext in a pad, i can easily convert that to docbook
[20:42] <elfy> knome: if there's no rush I'll look at it - if not I'll plaintext it in a pad
[20:43] <knome> of course there is no rush
[20:43] <knome> the next release is in 6 months
[20:43] <knome> ^ famous last words before filing freeze exception paperwork
[20:44] <elfy> ok - well I'll work on it - probably do a plaintext version first then not have to 'learn' at the same time :)
[20:44] <knome> yep :)
[20:44] <knome> fwiw, you might want to assign that bug to yourself once you start working on it
[20:45] <elfy> just did it
[20:45] <knome> otherwise you might be doing duplicate work with jjfrv8, who's been picking these bugs up like a master
[20:45] <elfy> yep
[20:47] <knome> and also, if you want to try poking docbook, feel free to mark me as the reviewer for a merge proposal and i'll go through it
[20:48] <knome> altogether just trying to build the docs is a good sanity check because it'll tell if you the syntax is all wonky
[20:50] <elfy> docbook means nothing to me - I assume it's not editing xml files directly
[20:50] <knome> docbook is a form of xml
[20:51] <knome> xml is a very broad term for documents that have different tags and attributes and content for them
[20:51] <knome> docbook specifies its own set of valid tags
[20:51] <elfy> ok - so how do you poke docbook? or do you mean edit that file I've pulled?
[20:52] <knome> that's one way to do it
[20:52] <knome> and there are also editors that can do it
[20:52] <knome> but i don't believe in such things myself :P
[20:52] <elfy> heh
[20:52] <elfy> I guess if you do it manually - you'll learn more
[20:54] <elfy> anyway - plaintext first :p
[20:56] <knome> yep
[21:50] <slickymaster> elfy, if you want I can share that burden with you
[21:51] <elfy> I'd like to carry it for a while :)
[21:52] <slickymaster> ok docbook wise, if you need help, just ping
[21:52] <knome> we can come up with something else for slickymaster :P
[21:52] <slickymaster> :)
[21:52] <slickymaster> at your service
[21:53] <elfy> ha ha knome
[22:48] <Unit193> https://packages.qa.debian.org/x/xfce4-session/news/20141024T124946Z.html most interesting of the recent uploads.
[22:50] <bluesabre> hm
[22:52] <Unit193> Yes, the last bit about the postinst being the most interesting.
[23:05] <ochosi> ahoj crew
[23:11] <ochosi> good idea with the docs
[23:11] <ochosi> the extended upgrading info makes sense
[23:11] <slickymaster> yes
[23:14] <ochosi> knome: just as a "note to self", should we carry the greybird-a11y version forward to 15.04?
[23:14] <knome> yep
[23:14] <ochosi> i'd really like to see it, i just don't see time to do it right now
[23:14] <knome> yep
[23:14] <ochosi> especially as gtk3.14 will be a rather biggish change
[23:14] <knome> mhm
[23:14] <ochosi> satya said he wants to completely redo the theme in SASS
[23:15] <knome> hrr
[23:15] <ochosi> might be more sustainable, but initially lotsa work...
[23:15] <knome> didn't the decide those markups aren't supported anyway in later gtk versions?
[23:15] <knome> or do i just remember wrong
[23:15] <knome> redoing in sass...
[23:15] <knome> not too much work
[23:15] <ochosi> what markups?
[23:15] <knome> well SASS and stuff
[23:16] <ochosi> wait, the adwaita theme (==gtk default now) is in SASS atm
[23:16] <knome> right
[23:16] <ochosi> they just ported things over from css, it'd be totally weird if they at the same time planned to deprecate it (but who knows)
[23:16] <knome> then i'm maybe misremembering
[23:16] <ochosi> any idea where you picked that up?
[23:16] <knome> no
[23:16] <knome> i'll tell you if i bump into it again
[23:16] <knome> anyway
[23:17] <knome> doesn't that mean an addiotional dependency?
[23:17] <knome> because obviously it needs to be preprocessed
[23:17] <knome> also a potential performance question?
[23:17] <ochosi> not sure
[23:18] <knome> or is it just preprocessed on build/installation time?
[23:18] <ochosi> i guess gtk3 processes it
[23:18] <ochosi> not sure tbh, i haven't looked into it *at all*
[23:18] <ochosi> frankly, i'm not too into it
[23:19] <knome> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/diff/themes/Adwaita/gtk-3.0/parse-sass.sh?id=349d83bfc2ce52faab7de0b73835151cc65c8100
[23:19] <knome> i would have been very surprised if gtk parsed sass.
[23:20] <ochosi> yeah
[23:20] <ochosi> i guess that the idea is to keep to code more maintainable by remaining "in touch" with adwaita
[23:20] <knome> right
[23:20] <knome> so my quick thoughts:
[23:20] <knome> parsing is meh.
[23:20] <knome> if we do it build-time, real-time/quick changes are gone
[23:21] <knome> if we don't, it's a performance issue
[23:21] <knome> sure, it can make the theme a bit smaller
[23:22] <knome> migrating to SASS just to keep "in touch" with adwaita is a bit silly thought too
[23:22] <ochosi> we can always write a parser that translates SASS from adwaita to css though, right?
[23:22] <knome> any SASS code is rather easily convertable to CSS anyway, so if we decide to pick an update, we can get it even if adwaita was in SASS
[23:22] <ochosi> then keep in sync with that
[23:22] <knome> of course there is already a SASS->CSS parser
[23:23] <knome> SASS wouldn't exist without one, because nothing directly supports it (afaik)
[23:23] <ochosi> the most practical issue is that it's sorta up to satya, because he mostly maintained our gtk3 variants
[23:23] <knome> so in a way SASS *is* the preprocessor that processes the SASS definitions to CSS
[23:25] <knome> to be honest, i don't think it's such a huge issue we/he is making it
[23:26] <ochosi> well if he's *making* it, it's up to him to decide
[23:27] <knome> heh
[23:27] <knome> let me give you an exampel
[23:27] <knome> example too
[23:27] <ochosi> sure
[23:29] <ali1234> sass --update -r custom_functions.rb . <- so this adds a build dep on sass and ruby?
[23:29] <knome> http://paste.ubuntu.com/8662945/
[23:30] <knome> ali1234, probably don't need the ruby build dep if we don't use the funky custom functions
[23:30] <knome> hmm, i'm lacking one }
[23:30] <knome> but whatever
[23:30] <knome> ochosi, ^ you get the idea
[23:31] <ochosi> sure, i get it
[23:31] <ochosi> but i also get why people would think that one is more readable and in this sense more maintainable than the other
[23:31] <knome> but while that looks useful
[23:31] <knome> it's not too useful in all situations
[23:31] <ochosi> and since gtk3 breaks theming every release cycle...
[23:31] <knome> that's one of the best examples
[23:32] <ochosi> right, what are you aiming at exactly? :)
[23:32] <knome> well just showing the difference
[23:32] <ochosi> (sorry, i was already tired in the afternoon)
[23:32] <knome> and kind of telling it's easy to convert to SASS and back to CSS
[23:33] <knome> it isn't a huge load of work
[23:33] <knome> i'd say an hour or so
[23:33] <knome> per theme
[23:33] <ali1234> you missed out that sass/less support constants
[23:33] <knome> well, maybe a bit more..
[23:33] <knome> ali1234, that's supported in GTK already
[23:33] <knome>     border-color: shade(@theme_selected_bg_color, 0.8);
[23:33] <knome> we have rows like that
[23:34] <knome> so we're not gaining much in that respect
[23:34] <knome> reading the changelog, it seems like adwaitas funky ruby scripts had something to do with mixing colors
[23:34] <knome> but didn't look too closely into that
[23:36] <knome> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/diff/themes/Adwaita/gtk-3.0/custom_functions.rb?id=349d83bfc2ce52faab7de0b73835151cc65c8100
[23:36] <knome> provide custom sass functions for gtk equivalents
[23:36] <knome> - generally sass has equivalents of gtk functions for mixing color in the case of the spinner though, the currentColor only lives in the context of gtk runtime. gtkalpha() is a way to provide alpha() in gtk context rather than SASS alpha()
[23:36] <knome> ^ that
[23:37] <knome> and yeah, sass seems to require ruby anyeay.
[23:37] <knome> *anyway too
[23:38] <ali1234> is it not written entirely in ruby?
[23:38] <knome> i have no idea.
[23:38] <knome> https://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-themes-standard/diff/themes/Adwaita/gtk-3.0/gtk-dark.css?id=c10689c7b2dc1352e7b329f58c9f653e5682dca5
[23:38] <knome> ^ ochosi: i want to cherry pick that commit to that file
[23:38] <ali1234> it is
[23:39] <ali1234> whaaaaat is that?
[23:39] <knome> a fail
[23:40] <ochosi> heh
[23:40] <ali1234> overwrote the input with the output?
[23:40] <knome> just proves what can happen if SASS definitions fail
[23:40] <ali1234> which failed, and then commited it?
[23:40] <ochosi> well, committing bs can always happen though
[23:40] <knome> ali1234, i have no clue how that happened, but it's a fail
[23:41] <knome> ochosi, of course
[23:41] <knome> it just seems to bring one layer of more complexity
[23:41] <ochosi> which is odd, as it's supposed to reduce complexity
[23:41] <knome> even if it took away one layer of complexity away elsewhere
[23:41] <ali1234> oh i see what happened
[23:41] <knome> well of course there's one more layer of work to do because the SASS will need to be processed to CSS
[23:42] <ali1234> they've tried to put all @imports inline with a script
[23:42] <ali1234> but that one has failed
[23:43] <knome> maybe i should go to sleep, i start seeing images in the irssi window
[23:44] <ochosi> heh, sounds like it
[23:44] <knome> oki, i'm off
[23:44] <knome> ttyl
[23:47] <ochosi> night knome


[00:45] <joelesko> micahg: I packaged the all the builds today and put them in my dev ppa. Once I can validate that they build and look good, I propose the merge.
[00:46] <joelesko> micahg: thanks for the help today
[08:21] <micahg> chrisccoulson: wow, about:plugins now loads new stuff w/out a Firefox restart, nice
[14:58] <dpm> hi chrisccoulson, I've noticed that https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-o-firefox-translations-in-launchpad appears on my work items. As there wasn't any discussion at UDS, I assumed you wouldn't have time this cycle. Is this something you're going to be working on, or has it been approved by mistake?
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> dpm, it's been approved because it's something i'd like to work on
[14:59] <chrisccoulson> whether it will happen or not is another matter :)
[15:00] <dpm> chrisccoulson, ok, cool. As you know, I'm very interested on it as well, so let me know if there is anything I can help with once the decision has been made :)
[15:16] <joelesko> micahg: The seamonkey x64 builds completed and they seem to be working fine. Something seems wrong with launchpad builds as it's taking forever.
[15:30] <joelesko> micahg: How do I propose the beta branch? Does lp:seamonkey-beta need to exist before I propose it?
[15:50] <micahg> joelesko: should be lp:seamonkey/beta
[15:51] <joelesko> Do I select other and use that branch name?
[15:54] <joelesko> I get a timeout error when I try to use lp:seamonkey/beta in the Target Branch Other
[16:03] <micahg> joelesko: ah, I thought I pushed it
[16:05] <micahg> weird, ok, well, I guess I have some cleanup to do later, you can just update your lp:~joe-nationnet/seamonkey/seamonkey-beta branch I guess
[19:49] <cousin_luigi> hello
[21:48] <cousin_luigi> Hi all, sorry to bother you right after FF8 came out, but is there anything about TB8 on oneiric?
[22:31] <micahg> cousin_luigi: yes, sorry, it will be coming later this week, for Firefox 9, we should be much closer to the upstream release time
[22:52] <cousin_luigi> micahg: Thanks man.
[23:29] <asac_> chrisccoulson: got security/stability firefox update ... got restart button, restart didnt succeed, no firefox process dangling...
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> asac_, there's a bug about that ;)
[23:29] <asac_> not sure if you still have hope on this one though :)
[23:29] <asac_> chrisccoulson: really? :-P ... the old "firefox upgrades cause huge troubles" one with 3K comments?
[23:30] <asac_> do you need more info ;) ... or a confirm?
[23:30] <chrisccoulson> asac_, i think there might be another open bug :)
[23:30] <asac_> could be. makes sense to have proper discussion in a shadow bug with less noise
[23:31] <chrisccoulson> heh


[07:09] <ganes> i am getting error while making a live cd
[07:11] <ganes> i installed casper on my system , casper is not helping to boot from cd , what to do what may be the error
[10:04] <gan> i am getting error while booting from cd ( is a customised cd which taken from ubuntu repo
[10:04] <gan> i am getting error while booting from live cd ( is a customised cd which taken from ubuntu repo
[14:51] <cr3> is casper used on the live cd, alternate or both?
[14:52] <evand> just the live cd


[00:13] <darkxst> craysiii, that looks like a buffer overlow
[00:13] <darkxst> #5  0x00007fba7311c86e in strcpy (__src=0x7fff712e3690 "Canon-MP600R-Printer", __dest=0x7fff712e3290 "Canon-MP600R-PriltiPASS 2.1") at /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/bits/string3.h:104
[00:13] <darkxst> No locals.
[00:13] <darkxst> #6  determine_scanner_serial (serial=0x7fff712e3290 "Canon-MP600R-PriltiPASS 2.1", mac_address=0x7fba7332e5a9 <device+41> "000085cdedb5", hostname=0x7fff712e2a10 "Canon-MP600R-Printer.home") at pixma_bjnp.c:373
[00:13] <darkxst>         dot = <optimized out>
[00:13] <darkxst>         copy = "Canon-MP600R-Printer\000home\000N;CMD:MultiPASS 2.1;MDL:MP600R;CLS:IMAGE;DES:CANON MP600R;\000\177\000\000)6\022s\272\177\000\000\b>.q\377\177\000\000.\a\310}\272\177\000\000\030\067.q\377\177\000\000P8.q\377\177\000"
[00:13] <darkxst> #7  add_scanner (dev_no=0x7fff712e3f58, uri=0x7fff712ec620 "bjnp://Canon-MP600R-Printer.home:8612", attach_bjnp=0x7fba7310f5f0 <attach_bjnp>, pixma_devices=0x7fba7332b980 <pixma_devices>) at pixma_bjnp.c:1682
[01:21] <darkxst> craysiii, this: http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/sane/sane-backends.git/commit/?id=d35d6326cb00fcbb19b41599bdff7faf5d79225e
[01:30] <craysiii> wow
[01:31] <craysiii> is ubuntu gnome using an older version of sane
[02:52] <darkxst> craysiii, no, but there hasnt been a release of sane-backends in nearly 2 years
[03:16] <darkxst> bug 1473264
[04:07] <craysiii> hm
[04:47] <darkxst> craysiii, it should be possible to cherry-pick that patch into the archives, or otherwise you could work around it by making the hostname of your printer < 16 characters
[13:29] <lindol> hi all
[23:38] <stiv2k> darkxst: hi
[23:43] <darkxst> stiv2k, hi
[23:47] <stiv2k> darkxst: another problem
[23:48] <stiv2k> darkxst: gst-plugins-base
[23:48] <stiv2k> failed build..
[23:48] <darkxst> logs?
[23:48] <stiv2k> one sec
[23:50] <stiv2k> darkxst: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11858700/
[23:50] <stiv2k> make[5]: *** No rule to make target 'gstrtsp-marshal.list', needed by 'gstrtsp-marshal.h'.  Stop.
[23:57] <darkxst> hmm that file comes from the git repo, shouldnt need building
[23:57] <darkxst> is it missing?
[23:59] <stiv2k> i don't know
[23:59] <stiv2k> i didnt touch it


[22:09] <solstag> Hey, anyone know if there is still see kind of changelog between dailies as there was in the '-preview' era?
[22:10] <rsalveti> solstag: we're integrating that this week
[22:10] <solstag> rsalveti: ah, cool! thanks ;)
[22:10] <rsalveti> as we're pushing it for all the ubuntu images, and not only touch
[22:11] <solstag> oh, even nicer
[22:24] <k1l_> is there a channel for the ubuntu edge?
[22:29] <savagejen> I had heard a rumor that ubuntu-touch wouldn't use the software center. Is that true?
[22:29] <popey> k1l_: this is good enough i think
[22:30] <k1l_> popey: ok. wanted to ask if its considered to put induction charging into the edge like the nexus4 and some nokias (or the old palm/hp) got
[22:32] <T|ASK> Ok, I give up on funding the Edge
[22:32] <popey> k1l_: nothing in the plan
[22:33] <T|ASK> If they don't offer a payment option without PP account it's their fault
[22:34] <k1l_> popey: ok :/
[22:38] <solstag> T|ASK: it used to be that in indiegogo you could pay through paypal without having a paypal account
[22:44] <k1l_> what about the ubuntu4android demoed with the nexus4. is that available and what hardware do i need besides the BT keyboard and mouse?
[22:51] <solstag> T|ASK: Oh, I see it's not the case for this one, because of the value involved. Very unfortunate :P Well one can always create an account with a fake email, use it for this single thing, and then delete it, I guess. Painful.
[22:52] <jashsu> quite annoying they didn't use kickstarter
[22:52] <jashsu> only draw of indiegogo is the flexible funding option
[22:54] <jashsu> kickstarter also doesn't process the transaction until after the funding is successful-- at best it's annoying for indiegogo to basically hold the funds interest-free for 30 days
[23:01] <popey> rsalveti: i am seeing bug 1199914 that pmcgowan also saw. any logs you want me to get off it?
[23:02] <rsalveti> popey: no, that's due a race when initializing the services
[23:02] <popey> ok
[23:02] <popey> so just reboot it?
[23:02] <rsalveti> if that doesn't get fixed with the android-upstart bridge, then we need to look further
[23:02] <rsalveti> yeah
[23:02] <popey> ok
[23:02] <popey> ta
[23:02] <rsalveti> almost 2m
[23:02] <popey> yeah
[23:03] <T|ASK> solstag: Thanks for the reply. It's sad that they simply don't offer direct CC or BTC :)
[23:25] <harrycarry250> wasssup
[23:26] <gnufs> excited!
[23:26] <popey> ☻
[23:31] <Joe_B> Any chance of getting Jono to do a reddit AMA for the edge?
[23:31] <barry> stgraber: finally got a system-image 0.7 uploaded.  it has LP: #1202915, LP: #1192585, and LP: #1202283
[23:32] <Joe_B> I understand those can provide some valuable publicity for crowdfunding campaigns?
[23:59] <mhall119> Joe_B: even better, I think Mark is going to do one


[11:33] <xubuntu04w> hi xubuntu comunity, i've a question about the 16.04 version
[11:34] <xubuntu04w> which software center will it have?
[11:34] <bekks> Are there different ones? :)
[11:34] <xubuntu04w> i mean, ubuntu will use gnome software
[11:34] <xubuntu04w> xubuntu will still use USC?
[11:35] <bekks> Ubuntu uses the Ubuntu Software Center, doesnt it?
[11:35] <Unit193> bekks: Not in 16.04, gnome-software, as will Xubuntu (thus far.)
[11:37] <xubuntu04w> so usc will be replace with gnome-sfotware also in xubuntu?
[11:41] <Unit193> xubuntu04w: At this point, yep.
[11:41] <xubuntu04w> thank you so much, have a nice sunday :)
[16:13] <rigo88> hi. my kodi is running by default on tty7 (?) i would like to start the desktop on tty1-6 somewhere. is that possible?
[19:41] <Mitchell92> Hi all, I bought a nice new thin notebook to run Xubuntu. At the same time, it would be wonderful if there was a way to create a keystroke sequence type thing to disable the touch pad while I'm doing something like typing a note. I've seen options to disable but then I would need another pointing device to re-enable.
[20:08] <drc> Mitchell92: Check in Mouse/Touchpad>Devices>Touchpad>General>Disable Touchpad While Typing.
[21:06] <Mitchell92> drc, I've done that and it helps a great deal... but I would love it if I could have some way to easily disable it completely.
[21:07] <Mitchell92> On another note, it is a lovely small notebook and it has a lovely glossy screen with that black around it and glass around it, all one piece... similar to a macbook pro... I'm not using the notebooks touch screen, but how should I safely clean this screen?
[21:12] <ed__> hello
[21:13] <drc> Mitchell92: Not sure if this is what you really want, but "synclient TouchPadOff=1" in a terminal, turns the touchpad off and "synclient TouchPadOff=0" turn it back off (on my machine, YMMV).  No need for another device.
[21:14] <drc> Mitchell92: Make a "shortcut/alias" for both and you're in business.
[21:15] <drc> err... =0 turns it "on"...sorry.
[21:15] <Mitchell92> drc, yeah I'm aware of that... and I guess I could just press control alt T and run that and type it in each time. I was just hoping there was some sort of utility or program I could add that would have like a key sequence I press to do so
[21:15] <Mitchell92> this laptop doesn't have such on a function key
[21:16] <drc> Mitchell92: Not that I know of...and I've looked, hard :)
[21:16] <Mitchell92> ahh, thanks
[21:16] <Mitchell92> I'll deal with it
[21:17] <Mitchell92> it would also be lovely to turn off the right mouse button... i can two finger press to get the right click option, but it would be nice to be able to just disable that and the whole touch pad just does a left click by default like on my Mac's
[21:17] <drc> Ah, that's your problem...you have a Mac :)
[21:18] <Mitchell92> its a mac that sits in my filing cabinet


[03:17] <samalex> hi all
[04:20] <jgould> Random question: Does anyone know of any docking stations that would allow me to connect two cables to a laptop that are 100% supported in Xubuntu?
[12:22] <mark76> How can I make my mouse less sensitive?
[12:23] <mark76> Whoops
[12:33] <Spass> mark76: did you looked in xfce4-mouse-settings?
[12:35] <mark76> Yeah,  I'm having problems with the double click function.  As in it's reacting as if I double clicked even when I haven't
[12:36] <mark76> So I'm getting windows maximising when I click on the title bar, links opening multiple tabs and all that kind of thing
[12:37] <Spass> maybe it's a hardware issue with your mouse? I had the same problem before, the issue was "broken" mouse switch
[12:38] <mark76> Could be
[12:38] <mark76> Left button?
[12:38] <Spass> yes
[12:38] <Spass> in my case it was easy to recognise, because when I was clicking harder and quicker, the double-click issue did not appear
[12:38] <Spass> try that for a moment :)
[12:39] <Spass> instead clicking gently, just tap your mouse button slight harder
[12:40] <mark76> K
[12:40] <Spass> it sounds stupid, but it may help you to diagnose that it's hardware issue
[12:41] <mark76> I suspect it is
[12:41] <Spass> probably
[12:42] <mark76> I'll try using my USB wireless mouse until the cursor freezes again
[12:44] <mark76> What's the best speed for double clicking to avoid accidental double clicks?
[12:46] <Spass> I have default values: 400ms / 5px and I'm happy with it
[12:48] <mark76> Okay
[12:49] <mark76> What's the difference between edge resistance and window snapping?
[13:07] <Spass> mark76: it's described on the bottom of this site - http://docs.xfce.org/xfce/xfwm4/preferences
[13:08] <mark76> Thanks
[13:08] <Spass> snapping is to "glue" a window to another window or to a screen edge when moving
[19:26] <Cust0sLimen> hi
[19:26] <Cust0sLimen> chrome does this thing where it has this weird zoom effect when I switch to it
[19:30] <encomjones> an animation right ?