[00:43] <yax51> hello I am trying to setup up my usb game controller in 11.04, and I found a solution on the forums, but I'm still having issues
[00:43] <yax51> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=338457
[00:44] <yax51> basically I need to activate the universe depository, but I don't know how
[06:32] <r4y> hello
[06:33] <r4y> I am wondering, well I was going to go on the gmail channel but got directed to "##namespace" which was weird, especially since I couldn't post anything there
[06:34] <holstein> r4y: i would try #freenode for that
[06:34] <holstein> sometimes channels require you to be registered*
[06:34] <r4y> OK
[06:34] <r4y> Well, I just wanted to ask a simple question
[06:35] <bioterror> r4y, register to freenode
[06:35] <bioterror> daaa
[06:35] <r4y> How many characters long is a password for gmail before it doesn't matter
[06:35] <bioterror> our loco channel requires that
[06:35] <r4y> ha ha, OK, I will
[06:38] <r4y> OK, I was trying to find it
[06:39] <r4y> 20 characters?, 14 characters?
[06:39] <r4y> I am not sure, but I guess it doesn't amtter
[06:40] <holstein> r4y: i would try and ask someone at google
[06:41] <r4y> Right, so is there both a firefox channel and googel channel or are they the same?, I know one is a browser and the  other is a search engine or something like that
[06:41] <holstein> http://mail.google.com/support/bin/request.py
[06:41] <r4y> I know there is a firefox channel anyways
[06:41] <r4y> TY and sorry
[06:41] <holstein> firefox and google are not related like that
[06:41] <holstein> the channels *should* be quite different
[06:42] <holstein>  /join them and see :)
[06:42] <r4y> Cool, like I said I understand that they are different but I am sure people sometimes get them confused
[06:43] <r4y> TY, bye
[06:53] <Error404NotFound>  /me pokes holstein in the eye
[06:53] <Error404NotFound> wtf
[06:54] <Error404NotFound> fail
[07:00] <holstein> Error404NotFound: ?
[07:00] <Error404NotFound> just tryin to poke ya in the eye
[07:00] <Error404NotFound> im borded
[07:06] <Error404NotFound> holstein:
[07:06] <Error404NotFound> can you think of a reason gparted will not show video when it boots?
[07:12] <r4y> I've wanted to know this for a while. Is there a way to know where an icon is located that a launcher is using under Ubuntu?, I know there are various places like for instance /usr/share/pixmaps or something like that and /usr/share/icons, but without having to look there is what I am asking
[07:13] <bodhizazen> r4y, locate icon_name.png
[07:13] <bodhizazen> locate icon_name | grep png
[07:13] <bodhizazen> take your pick, it will vary by icon theme
[07:14] <r4y> Ah, I need a sec to see something before I think of what I might say to what you just said
[07:14] <bodhizazen> If your current icon theme includes an icon, it will be with the them, otherwise it will be in the fallback or default icon set
[07:14] <Error404NotFound> holy carp batman
[07:15] <Error404NotFound> thats one of the dumbest things i ever seen someone say
[07:15] <r4y> Ha ha, OK what ever
[07:15] <bodhizazen> I have been known to do that from time to time Error404NotFound
[07:15] <Error404NotFound> no offence
[07:15] <Error404NotFound> lol
[07:16] <Error404NotFound> ill make sure to make fun of you when you do it then bodhizazen
[07:16] <Error404NotFound> L
[07:17] <r4y> OK, none taken, I know I ask dumb questions.  Better then Anyone I know.
[07:17] <Error404NotFound> lol
[07:17] <Error404NotFound> thats a good answer to can i ask a dumb question
[07:17] <Error404NotFound> ill have to remember that
[07:18] <bodhizazen> r4y, look for example at an icon set
[07:19] <bodhizazen> they are in /usr/shar/icons
[07:19] <bodhizazen> Use Bluecureve for example
[07:20] <r4y> Um, the thing is, it's not something I think that is located in themes. It's a dos game icon that has an icon which is wine but doesn't run in wine. It runs in DOSBox
[07:20] <bodhizazen> they are in /usr/shar/icons/gnome is better
[07:20] <bodhizazen> There is a config file
[07:20] <bodhizazen> they are in /usr/shar/icons/gnome/index.theme
[07:20] <bodhizazen> in index.theme it defines the various paths to look for icons
[07:21] <r4y> Well, I will look there. I have another place in mind, but what ever.
[07:21] <bodhizazen> Directories=bla ... bla ... bla
[07:22] <r4y> Inex theme is a text file I can't open
[07:22] <r4y> Oops I miss spelled
[07:22] <bodhizazen> It is a big file =)
[07:23] <r4y> The location is not a folder
[07:23] <r4y> I am not saying your wrong
[07:24] <bodhizazen> I am not following what you are laying down =)
[07:24] <bodhizazen> Inside the icon directory are all the theme specific icons
[07:24] <Error404NotFound> night all
[07:25] <bodhizazen> If the icon is not there, it is going to fall back to another icon set, although I do not know the algorithm for fallback off the top of my head
[07:25] <r4y> It has the text file icon and has words in it but I can't open it with, it only has open
[07:26] <r4y> I don't know any algorithms for Ubuntu or Linux, so I guess I should google that sometime
[07:26] <bodhizazen> gedit /usr/share/icons/$THEME/index.theme
[07:27] <bodhizazen> grep Directories /usr/share/icons/$THEME/index.theme
[07:27] <r4y> I need to use the Rest room, I'll be right back
[07:29] <r4y> OK, sorry
[07:29] <r4y> I did the first command and a text file opened that seems empty
[07:30] <r4y> "grep: /usr/share/icons//index.theme: No such file or directory"
[07:30] <r4y> That was the second command
[07:55] <r4y> I don't want to make you think I have given up, but I did a lot today and I need to go to bed soon. Thank you very much for trying to help me. I tried some of what you said and I am not sure why things aren't going right, but that happens sometimes. I will have to figure this out later or not I guess. I hope to figure out more in the future though
[07:55] <r4y> TY and bye
[08:25] <philipballew> my mic stopped working in 11.04. whats a common problem to fox that?
[08:27] <philipballew> *fix
[09:08] <philipballew> whats a good gui media file converting tool
[09:10] <philipballew> i know i can use ffmpeg in cli but i was looking for something to make the kids get jealious at if you know what i mean.
[09:11] <bioterror> install compiz and show a spinning cube on kde desktop
[09:11] <bioterror> that should make kids green of jealousy1
[09:12] <philipballew> haha. i had that. till i changer to 11.04
[09:13] <bioterror> http://sourceforge.net/projects/xmffmpeg/
[09:14] <bioterror> ffmpeg gui in google and you get hits
[09:14] <philipballew> alright. maybe ill have to complie something
[09:14] <bioterror> but this is awesome!
[09:15] <bioterror> if you want to make backup image of you dvd! you can just say: cat /dev/sr0 > ~/Videos/Gummybears.img
[09:15] <bioterror> and it will make exact copy if you gummybears dvd!
[09:15] <philipballew> yeah. i do that to make iso's the cli is where its at in a lot of ways. ubuntu is more a gui distro though. its intresting
[10:44] <Puck`> hi everyone
[10:51] <coalwater_work> nk ;
[10:51] <coalwater_work> lol woops
[10:51] <coalwater_work> hi Puck`
[12:10]  * alhudzaify aztek
[14:00] <raubvogel> Can anyone explain why I am getting two motds in http://pastebin.com/E6Ygvpdb, one saying I am running 10.4.2 and IP ending in .208 while the other 10.4.1 and ip .207? I only have one active ethernet port (besides loopback of course), eth0. And I do not have created subinterfaces.
[14:02] <bioterror> what's your /etc/motd like?
[14:04] <raubvogel> bioterror, pretty much what I have in pastebin down to line 33
[14:05] <raubvogel> So it was generated
[14:05] <bioterror> cant remember which or what generated it
[14:05] <bioterror> there must lie double lines :D
[14:06] <raubvogel> bioterror, I am wondering if it is not erasing an old motd
[14:06] <raubvogel> Just generating new entry and appending to the front
[14:20] <raubvogel> bioterror, there is also a motd.tail file
[14:21] <raubvogel> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man5/motd.tail.5.html
[14:29] <raubvogel> I killed /etc/motd.tail and it seems happier now
[14:42] <coalwater_work> if i do something like cat * | grep word , how can i make it write the file name that contains the match
[14:52] <coalwater_work> nvm, figured a way
[18:24] <renshai> Hey guys, anyone able to help me out with a kinda off topic programming question?
[18:24] <renshai> Should be pretty simple, I'm a complete newb at it so not doing anything really high tech
[18:26] <bioterror> !ask | renshai
[18:26] <ubot2> renshai: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-)
[18:27] <coalwater_work> just ask ;)
[18:29] <renshai> Sorry: I'm modifying a program with very little knowledge of any programming stuff. I essentially need to use the toupper function, so when the program compares the line (say the line could be "Blah blah blah" or "blah blah blah" but needed to reference the same result, which should always be "Blah blah blah" ) it find the proper result. The command I'm interacting with is in this form: void locate_room( char *name, int area, ch
[18:29] <renshai> ar *player ) and I'm 99% sure that char *name references the name of the room I'm comparing to a list of all rooms. I essentially want to change the first character of that to be uppercase, regardless of how it is fed into the search
[18:30] <bioterror> tl;dr & i'm not a coder ;)
[18:30] <coalwater> renshai, what language?
[18:30] <coalwater> sounds like c++ ?
[18:30] <renshai> That, afaik
[18:31] <coalwater> im not that good in c++ but don't most the string functions exist in the string.h library or something?
[18:31] <coalwater> and i think to upper isn't the correct function
[18:31] <coalwater> i think to upper converts the whole string to upper case
[18:32] <coalwater> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/735204/convert-a-string-in-c-to-upper-case does this help ?
[18:56] <JackyAlcine> renshai, what's up?
[18:58] <renshai> JackyAlcine: Basically I'm a total C++ newb trying to make a small modification to uppercase the first letter of a string before it's compared in the code
[19:02] <philipballew> my usb wireless adapter does not work on my desktop but works on my laptop. both running ubuntu?
[19:03] <philipballew> any help would be hot
[19:03] <JackyAlcine> renshai, come into #ubuntu-beginners-dev
[19:03] <holstein> philipballew: same kernel?
[19:03] <JackyAlcine> !wireless | philipballew
[19:03] <ubot2> philipballew: Wireless documentation, including how-to guides and troubleshooting information, can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs
[19:05] <philipballew> well i know its supported. it just doesnt appear to pick up networks
[19:05] <holstein> philipballew: do you have the same ubuntu version on both machines ? and the same kernel?
[19:06] <philipballew> no. 10.04 on one not supported and 11.04 on supported one. i thought this might be the issue so i downloaded the new drivers and compiled and modprobed them and still nothing
[19:07] <holstein> thats quite a different kernel version, i would tend to think that might be the issue
[19:08] <philipballew> i could run a 11.04 live usb to find out
[19:08] <holstein> i would probably boot an 11.04 live machine on the desktop as a troubleshooting step, just so you know the hardware is capable
[19:08] <JackyAlcine> great minds think alike ;)
[19:09] <philipballew> i will be back on here in a few to let you know what happens
[20:03] <virgo> is ther hotkey to move between 4 desktops ?
[20:06] <charlie-tca> http://askubuntu.com/questions/28086/keyboard-shortcuts-in-unity/28087#28087
[20:07] <charlie-tca> virgo: looks like Ctrl+Alt+ arrow_keys
[20:10] <virgo> thanks charlie-tca
[20:13] <kristian_> hi all
[20:14] <kristian_> I'm looking for a UNIX shell, free or cheap
[20:15] <kristian_> so far I have checked out SDF, and it's okay... but I'm thinking if there's something better out there perhaps?
[20:24] <egossett> i input sudo lshw command and still do not know what driver to install for wireless card to work on old dell machine
[22:06] <frank1_> can anyone help with my linksys router? it keeps dropping the signal to my computer and ps3
[22:29] <frank1_> anyone here?
[22:36] <head_victim> frank1_: yes I'm here
[22:36] <head_victim> frank1_: if the router is dropping signal to multiple devices it would suggest a fault with the router or interference of some sort
[22:49] <philipballew> anyone know rsync?
[22:50] <philipballew> trying to decide what is important to keep synced and the best way to do it
[23:05] <head_victim> philipballew: rsync is awesome
[23:07] <philipballew> head_victim i'veused it before but i want to hook it up to my desktop and back that up and also back up my laptop through ssh to my desktop on a drive hooked up to that
[23:07] <philipballew> its possible i know
[23:07] <philipballew> im just unsure exactly how plus i need to think what files i need from the file system i can retrive from a fresh install
[23:08] <head_victim> grsync is your friend, nice little gui for the cli
[23:11] <philipballew> never used the gui. whats the adventages?
[23:15] <head_victim> Makes it easier to set up if you're not sure what you want to do
[23:28] <philipballew> head_victim that makes sence. im just trying to make a complete back up of my entire hd. not sure if thats necessary though
[23:38] <head_victim> !backup
[23:38] <ubot2> There are many ways to back your system up. Here's a few: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BackupYourSystem , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DuplicityBackupHowto , https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup , https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MondoMindi - See also !sbackup and !cloning
[23:38] <head_victim> philipballew: that should give you a few ideas
[23:39] <philipballew> alright!
[23:44] <head_victim> !rsync
[23:45] <ubot2> rsync is a fast remote file copy and synchronization program - For more see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/rsync
[23:45] <head_victim> That has some more info on rsync if you're still keen on that. It all comes down to what you actually wnat to do, backing up is different to cloning, etc.
[23:53] <philipballew> well what does rsync do then?
[23:54] <philipballew> i could probably just put a rsync comand in my cron folder
[23:55] <head_victim> Rsync synchronises data across locations. You can cron it to make it do "backups". The other backup options can do slightly different things
[23:55] <head_victim> rsyncing won't save you if you accidentally delete the wrong file, as an example.


[06:35] <Mirv> if a core-dev or MOTU is around, please ack (approve) these quite simple build dependency (and make option) changes (the debian/* parts): https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-008-2-publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_dialer-app_0.1+14.10.20140912-0ubuntu1.diff + https://ci-train.ubuntu.com/job/ubuntu-landing-008-2-publish/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/packaging_changes_history-service_0.1+14.10.20140912-0ubuntu1.diff
[08:20] <cjwatson> Mirv: ack both
[09:38] <Mirv> thanks colin
[17:49] <blkperl> slangasek: the workaround in the RH ticket does not seem to work
[18:00] <slangasek> blkperl: doh.  You may want to follow up to the bug report with that info
[18:00] <slangasek> (the Ubuntu bug report, not the RH one)
[18:06] <blkperl> slangasek: yeah i updated the bug report
[18:08] <blkperl> slangasek: can the importance be set to something, probably high or critical?
[18:09] <slangasek> blkperl: so looking more closely, I'm not sure yours is the same bug, anyway.  this bug report is about a partially-incorrect uid mapping... but you have files in a directory which are all owned by the same user, some of which are shown correctly and some not, so it's not a truncated uid map problem?
[18:13] <blkperl> slangasek:  the bug reporter has files owned by nfsnobody in the comments though
[18:14] <slangasek> blkperl: yes, but it's not a case of some files showing correctly and some not when owned by the same user; the breakdown is along uid
[18:16] <blkperl> slangasek: ok
[18:17] <blkperl> yeah so I guess my bug is the same uid and gid are showing up as nfsnobody
[18:21] <blkperl> slangasek: thats interesting, /run/rpc_pipefs/nfs is missing on a broken client
[18:22] <blkperl> wait nvm that was because i turned off idmap
[18:30] <blkperl> slangasek: sounds like this bug maybe, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nfs-utils/+bug/976632
[18:39] <blkperl> well maybe not
[20:07] <slangasek> smoser: sorry for not getting back to you yesterday on http://paste.ubuntu.com/8327941/ - so all of the /run/cloud-init/local-finished stuff, is that a workaround for something?


[00:12] <rick_h> cool
[00:12] <rick_h> patches welcome in the flesh
[00:24] <Wolfger> ok, I finally gave in and bought an O'Reilly DotD
[00:25] <Wolfger> now I must learn more than just rudimentary vim skills
[00:26]  * Wolfger pokes ColonelPanic001 until he too buys the ebook
[00:34] <rick_h> hah, peer pressure
[00:34] <rick_h> I used to have one, must have given it away I guess
[00:35] <rick_h> can't find it now
[00:35] <_stink_> "patches welcome in the flesh"
[00:35] <_stink_> +1 for context necessary
[00:37] <snap-l> heh
[00:49] <rick_h> so, if I wanted to do a conditional xorg.conf file...what I just create my own init script and make it before lightdm?
[00:49] <rick_h> would I hack the init script for lightdm itself?
[00:56] <jcastro> rick_h: ask on AU, the lightdm author follows the tag
[00:56] <rick_h> jcastro: cool, thanks
[02:11] <rick_h> hah, sitting at the bar, watching the game, with irc on the usb display
[02:11] <rick_h> I think I've officially gone too far
[02:27] <_stink_> any funny looks?
[02:28] <rick_h> got asked if it was a work laptop or a fantasy football laptop
[02:28] <rick_h> other that than, too buried in the laptop and the game to people watch
[02:28] <rick_h> man, I just don't know how things startup like I used to
[02:28] <_stink_> they're all looking at you!
[02:28] <rick_h> ahhhhh!
[02:57] <rick_h> jcastro: http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/11/07/mutli-monitor-on-the-go-displaylink-usb-monitor/
[03:00] <snap-l> rick_h: Awesome that you got iy working.
[03:00] <rick_h> snap-l: yea, got some bugs, but still pretty sweet
[03:00] <rick_h> I'll bring it tomorrow to show
[03:00] <rick_h> with some script/tweaking should be able to get over most of it I think
[03:00] <snap-l> Tomorrow might not be the best, since we're in the cramped room again
[03:00] <rick_h> ah, sucky
[03:01] <rick_h> well CHC then
[03:01] <snap-l> yeah, that would be sweet
[03:19] <rick_h> http://twitter.com/#!/carlfish/status/133734043509456896 lol
[03:49] <jrwren> rick_h: you are working for canonical? wtf?
[03:49] <jrwren> congrats?
[03:52] <rick_h> jrwren: yea, start for the launchpad team next week
[03:52] <rick_h> http://blog.mitechie.com/2011/10/19/been-a-good-summer-fitness-woodworking-and-new-job-coming-soon/
[12:46] <snap-l> Reminder that MUG is tonight at 6:30pm.
[12:46] <snap-l> lmorchard: ^^
[12:58] <Wolfger> morning
[12:59] <brousch> you are correct
[12:59] <Wolfger> of course I am
[13:02] <brousch> running kde3?
[13:02] <brousch> trinity?
[13:03] <Wolfger> not yet
[13:03] <Wolfger> Tried to apt-get trinity, but no package found
[13:03] <Wolfger> and I've been lazy
[13:04] <Wolfger> actually, I looked at Linux Mint 12, and I think I might try that too...
[13:05] <brousch> nearly every person i know that has tried mint dumped it within 6 months
[13:05] <brousch> usually because an update breaks it
[13:05] <Wolfger> heh
[13:05] <brousch> that includes me
[13:05] <Wolfger> so... just like Gentoo. I should be good.
[13:05] <Wolfger> :-D
[13:06] <brousch> just sayin, make sure you go in with backups
[13:06] <Wolfger> But the big Mint news now is MATE. They are working with a fork of Gnome 2 that can be installed along side Gnome 3
[13:06] <Wolfger> not that I'm a huge Gnome 2 fan, but it'll be big news for some people
[13:07] <snap-l> Y'know, I'm over Gnome 2
[13:08] <Wolfger> at this point, I don't need no stinking backups. I've kept my media on a separate partition for years, and Win 7 has been my primary OS ever since I got a laptop. :-p
[13:08] <brousch> Wolfger: that sounds sustainable
[13:08] <snap-l> I think jcastro was right.  I care that people continue to want to use it and support it)
[13:10] <Wolfger> what's really borked, though, is the Ubuntu location of the buttons, and the auto-hidey menu bar at the top of the screen rather than on the app window
[13:10] <Wolfger> those, honestly, make Ubuntu a pain in the ass to use, rather than a pleasure
[13:10] <snap-l> Wolfger: That's been a bit rough
[13:10] <snap-l> but I've gotten used to it
[13:11] <brousch> gnome shell has normal menus
[13:11] <brousch> and the close button on the right
[13:11] <Wolfger> it's something you can get used to if you spend all (or even most) of your time in Ubuntu, but much of the world still has to use Windows on a daily basis, for work if nothing else. That makes it much harder to "get used to it"
[13:12] <Wolfger> how do you get gnome shell? I tried to apt-get that too, but said it couldn't find it
[13:12] <brousch> but there's no minimize, which annoys me sometimes
[13:12] <brousch> sudo apt-get install gnome-shell (on 11.10)
[13:12] <Wolfger> I can live without minimize pretty easily
[13:12] <Wolfger> ah, ok. I'm still on 11.04
[13:12] <brousch> unity is nicer on 11.10 too
[13:13] <brousch> you should upgrade, then you can install unity and gnome shell and switch between them
[13:13] <snap-l> I haven't used Gnome Shell in a while
[13:13] <snap-l> but it feels like it's too radical for my tastes.
[13:13] <brousch> i actually got used to the buttons on the left, so it being back on the right is kind of annoying to me
[13:14] <brousch> snap-l: it's basically the same level of strangeness as unity
[13:14] <snap-l> I minimize like a mother.
[13:14] <Wolfger> tonight's task list is growing.... Upgrade to 11.10, install and try gnome-shell, install and try Trinity, read vim book and learn, read python book and/or work on python app and learn...
[13:14] <brousch> maybe less strangeness compared to gnome2
[13:14] <brousch> Wolfger: do you live in alaska?
[13:14] <brousch> that's a long night
[13:15] <snap-l> Yeah, that's not something you can finish in a night. :)
[13:15] <snap-l> Unless you can dilate time.
[13:15] <Wolfger> anyhow, this is the article that got me thinking about Mint: http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2011/11/linux-mint-12-lisa-to-come-with.html
[13:15] <snap-l> Or you're Cher and you can TURN BACK TIME...
[13:15]  * snap-l waits for the death threats.
[13:16] <brousch> Wolfger: i saw that, but i don't think it's sustainable
[13:16] <Wolfger> snap-l: define "finish". I'm not aiming to read two books cover-to-cover, that's for sure
[13:16] <brousch> the gnome2 part anyway
[13:17] <Wolfger> MGSE looks a lot sexier than Unity
[13:18] <Wolfger> also, /me threatens to kill snap-l for the attempt at infecting me with a Cher earworm
[13:22] <Wolfger> http://www.freep.com/article/20111108/COL41/111080311/Mark-W-Smith-Google-goes-to-the-Detroit-Zoo
[13:23] <brousch> hey, i was just there like a month ago!
[13:23] <brousch> it was a lot more crowded
[13:23] <snap-l> http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2011/11/can-dram-replace-hard-drives-and-ssds-ramcloud-creators-say-yes.ars <- I believe RAMDISKS are coming back
[13:48] <brousch> my wife asked for this for xmas. wtf is with the prices? http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Museum-Yiruma/dp/B000657KI4
[13:49] <ColonelPanic001> out of print?
[13:52] <brousch> it's frickin music. sell me the mp3s
[13:53] <brousch> domn fools. hm, should i buy it new for $140 or download it from a file sharing site?
[13:58] <snap-l> brousch: Check around
[13:58] <brousch> i found it used for $64
[13:58] <snap-l> Amazon gets nuts with sellers thinking that something like E. Power Biggs isn't avaiable via Amazon
[13:58] <snap-l> brousch: Check eBay
[13:59] <snap-l> I found the same thing with the Wendy Carlos Switched on Box Set
[13:59] <snap-l> though those prices get outrageous as well
[14:00] <snap-l> Also check to see if there's any used CD shops that might have it
[14:00] <snap-l> Assuming any still exist in your area.
[14:01]  * snap-l also notes that there's several Korean stores by him
[14:01] <brousch> $24 on ebay, getting better
[14:01] <snap-l> Is that Buy It Now, or last bid?
[14:01] <snap-l> if it's a bid, expect it to go higher.
[14:01] <brousch> bah, $25 + $20 shipping from tokyo
[14:01] <brousch> no bids yet
[14:02] <snap-l> OK, that's no deal
[14:02] <snap-l> I'd at least watch it
[14:02] <brousch> silly
[14:02] <snap-l> but if $70+ is the asking rate, expect it to go around $40 at least
[14:02] <snap-l> This begs the root of the question: Why is she asking for Korean piano music? :)
[14:03] <snap-l> Sounds like it's new-agey stuff
[14:05] <brousch> i have no idea
[14:05] <snap-l> I blame NPR.
[14:06] <brousch> that is possible
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> hay i listen to npr in the mornings
[14:06] <ColonelPanic001> I take personal offense to you expressing a polite but differing thought.
[14:07] <snap-l> Ah, OK, I think I know who this is
[14:07] <snap-l> I think he did the soundtrack for the OST "Puppy Dung"
[14:07] <snap-l> I remember hearing about this
[14:07] <brousch> what is ost?
[14:07] <snap-l> (just checked Ubuntu One Music Store)
[14:08] <snap-l> Original Soundtrack
[14:08] <ColonelPanic001> overall shitty time
[14:08] <snap-l> Sorry, was thinking OVA. ;)
[14:08] <brousch> i can buy puppy dung on itunes
[14:08] <snap-l> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_video_animation
[14:10] <brousch> fml, he has stuff on the twilight soundtrack
[14:11] <brousch> thank gawd for russians
[14:12] <snap-l> Yeah, just realized that as well
[14:13] <snap-l> I was hoping there might have been a re-release.
[14:14] <brousch> i can't remember the last time i went to the torrents or p2p sites for something
[14:15] <snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/artist/Kendra_Springer <- Only New-agey piano you need.
[14:18] <brousch> it has a violin too
[14:18] <brousch> the piano museum
[14:20] <snap-l> http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/602998 <- Violin and Piano.
[14:20] <brousch> i'm trying to wake up
[14:23] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiZAheU3fkA
[14:23] <snap-l> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKXSpwvVrsU&feature=related
[14:24] <snap-l> http://www.readwriteweb.com/enterprise/2011/11/microsoft-gives-up-on-competit.php <- Bwahahaha
[14:26] <Wolfger> very sad
[14:28] <Wolfger> s/sad/pathetic/
[14:28] <jrwren> rick_h: congrats. I hope you somehow crush github :)
[14:28] <snap-l> I don't hope that at all
[14:29] <snap-l> I think choice is great. FOr some, that's github, others sourceforge
[14:29] <jrwren> by crush, I mean compete.
[14:29] <jrwren> i hope LP becomes a leader again, instead of the butt end of jokes.
[14:29] <snap-l> but I hope Launchpad makes me have to think again about where to host code. :)
[14:29] <jrwren> exactly.
[14:31] <Wolfger> s/Launchpad/Gitpad/  XD
[14:42] <snap-l> rick_h: ttp://shop.oreilly.com/product/9780596802301.do?imm_mid=077dd4&cmp=em-orm-pr-art-of-readable-code
[14:43] <snap-l> Not so much a "hey, get this", as it is a "hey, someone else thinks readable code is nifty too"
[14:49] <rick_h> brousch: lol, I like that you're saying Gnome Shell is good, but it landed in debian and my first two blog posts I saw this morning were rants against it
[14:50] <rick_h> jrwren: thanks, it's going to be interesting. At least the team knows they've got some work to do. I'm looking forward to trying to help for sure
[14:51] <brousch> it is almost as different from gnome2 as unity is, so those who are just trying it will whine
[14:51] <rick_h> brousch: yea, just funny to read the scrollback after catching up on RSS early this morning
[14:54] <rick_h> snap-l: thanks for the book link
[14:54] <rick_h> that's sweet timing
[14:54] <rick_h> wish I had it before my talk so I could mention it/plug it perhaps
[14:54] <rick_h> but cool
[14:55] <rick_h> wow, book is 1/2 the price on kindle format
[14:55] <rick_h> maybe this ebook stuff is finally making sense
[14:56] <snap-l> Yeah, O'reilly gets it
[14:57] <rick_h> well it's $35 for paper, $27 for ebook on oreilly
[14:57] <rick_h> kindle book is $15
[14:57] <snap-l> Oh
[14:57] <snap-l> And O'Reilly has coupons. ;)
[14:57] <snap-l> so you can usually get it for $14
[14:57] <rick_h> definitely, still, not often in the tech books to see ebook 1/2 of paper
[14:58] <snap-l> again, O'reilly gets it. :)
[14:58] <snap-l> as opposed to Wiley, and MK
[14:59] <snap-l> http://www.elsevierdirect.com/product.jsp?isbn=9780123819765
[15:00] <snap-l> Sorry, but if your eBook is as much as your softcover, I'll buy the softcover
[15:00] <snap-l> at least that has resale value should I decide to part with it.
[15:00] <snap-l> I'm not paying a premium for bits.
[15:00] <brousch> i think the ebook should come free if you buy a dead tree version
[15:01] <snap-l> I like the way Apress does their book -> ebook pgrade
[15:01] <snap-l> $10 to upgrade
[15:01] <rick_h> yea
[15:01] <brousch> that seems reasonable
[15:02] <snap-l> so even if you get an illicit copy, and want to make it legal, it's $10
[15:02] <brousch> illicit copy?
[15:02] <brousch> of a dead tree book?
[15:02] <snap-l> Well, say you borrow a friend's book. ;)
[15:03] <snap-l> and then "upgrade" it. ;)
[15:03] <rick_h> man, I'm tempted by the ODotD today
[15:03] <snap-l> or find a site with the text on it
[15:03] <rick_h> but no reviews on amazon
[15:03] <rick_h> and a pricey book
[15:03] <snap-l> rick_h: Yea, that's a bt much
[15:04] <rick_h> I'd feel better if I could find some good reviews
[15:04] <rick_h> but nadda
[15:04] <snap-l> I think it's an upgrade of a previous book, no?
[15:04] <rick_h> there's some other interface books
[15:05] <rick_h> but I think this is rev 1 of this mobile one
[15:05] <snap-l> Ah, OK
[15:05] <rick_h> yea, I've got a couple like designing web interfaces and such
[15:05] <snap-l> It's a pre-order.
[15:05] <snap-l> At least, acc. to Amazon
[15:05] <rick_h> but it wasn't earth shattering at all (the web one)
[15:05] <brousch> link?
[15:06] <snap-l> http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920013716.do
[15:07] <rick_h> hmm, the sample looks pretty good
[15:07] <snap-l> http://cdn.oreilly.com/oreilly/booksamplers/9781449394639_sampler.pdf
[15:08] <snap-l> Beat me to the punch. ;)
[15:08] <rick_h> yea, reading through it
[15:08] <brousch> i would wait until i need to make a complicated mobile interface
[15:08] <snap-l> I'm getting the impression this is more high-level than you think
[15:09] <rick_h> low level than I thought
[15:09] <snap-l> looks rather generic "here's how you'd design an app for mobile"
[15:09] <rick_h> yea, but very detailed
[15:09] <snap-l> Is there an Android design document ou tthere?
[15:10] <brousch> yes
[15:11] <snap-l> http://stepto.bandcamp.com/releases
[15:11] <brousch> http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/ui_guidelines/index.html
[15:11] <snap-l> I have never thought of using Bandcamp to release an audio book, but why not. :)
[15:12] <rick_h> http://twitter.com/?photo_id=1#!/mpirnat/status/133924152699654145/photo/1 lol
[15:12] <rick_h> anyway, I think urge has been resisted. If i did a mobile app in itself I'd check it out I think
[15:12] <brousch> snap-l: i tweeted that android UI link 2 days ago. do you not read all my tweets?
[15:12] <snap-l> brousch: You tweet?
[15:12] <rick_h> but I'm shooting for more responsive design than full UI for bookie mobile use
[15:13] <brousch> have to go native for great responsiveness
[15:14] <rick_h> yea, ColonelPanic001 and I had a great convo about some great uses for a native bookie app
[15:14] <rick_h> but until I hire a mobile team, meh...share as much as possible
[15:16] <rick_h> http://techcrunch.com/2011/11/08/amazons-kindle-cloud-reader-now-available-for-firefox-too/
[15:18] <rick_h> nice, yay that rocks
[15:21] <jrwren> the crazy thing is that bzr+lp is nicer than git+github in many ways still.
[15:24] <rick_h> yea, I hear the people that use the dev patterns LP is built for love it
[15:24] <rick_h> but I've just never really been in that use case
[15:25] <ColonelPanic001> I'd offer to do an android app, but I don't want to offer and never get around to it
[15:27] <_stink_> yeah, like that guy who said he'd do the firefox extension
[15:27] <ColonelPanic001> yeah
[15:54] <Wolfger> Hmm. Cloud Reader on FF doesn't show all the books that should be in my cloud
[15:54] <Wolfger> like, the book I'm currently reading
[15:55] <rick_h> did you buy it from amazon?
[15:55] <Wolfger> I wonder if that book came pre-loaded on the Android app
[15:55] <rick_h> or load it via pdf/etc?
[15:55] <Wolfger> or if I downloaded it pre-Kindle and the Android app simply found it and absorbed it.
[15:56] <Wolfger> No, I'm not expecting yesterday's acquisition of howto vim to appear there, though it would be nice if I could upload it
[15:57] <Wolfger> but I was reading Treasure Island, which I don't remember ever downloading, but which has always existed in my Kindle library on my phone....
 I'm sure it's probably my error, not theirs
[15:57] <Wolfger> my purchased kindle books are there
[15:59] <Wolfger> speaking of Learning vi and Vim... did you know there's a cw command that is like s for an entire word? (Of course *you* did... :-p)
[16:00] <Wolfger> how many keystrokes I could have been saving all these years
[16:01] <snap-l> My Kobo came with about 100 PD books
[16:01] <Wolfger> I've always replaced a word by doing xxxxxs
[16:03] <brousch> Wolfger: i also have treasure island, so i would guess it came in automatically on one of the platforms
[16:05] <brousch> you terminal freaks see this? http://onethingwell.org/post/12514672222/tyrs
[16:13] <ColonelPanic001> brousch: that's kind of nice, actually
[16:13] <ColonelPanic001> thanks
[16:16] <jrwren> wtf? askubuntu questions expire and disappear?
[16:22] <rick_h> brousch: I used twitvim for a long time
[16:22] <rick_h> kind of miss it actually
[16:23] <rick_h> Wolfger: I need to test that. Supposedly I can email the pdf of my orielly purchase to my kindle account and it'll load on my kindle
[16:23] <rick_h> I need to test if it shows on read.amazon.com and such
[16:23] <rick_h> only problem is that I think it converts it to mobi, so might break the look
[16:23] <rick_h> lol at cw
[16:24] <rick_h> Wolfger: wait until you read about ci"
[16:32] <jcastro> jrwren: which one?
[16:32] <jcastro> jrwren: if it's abandoned we usually close it
[16:32] <jcastro> but that doesn't delete it
[16:32] <jcastro> it'd have to be pretty worthless to be deleted
[16:49] <snap-l> jrwren: Was it buried?
[16:53] <Wolfger> rick_h: I downloaded my O'Reilly book in .mobi format (and .pdf too), so that shouldn't be a problem.
[16:53] <rick_h> Wolfger: ah cool
[16:53] <jrwren> it was about usbip
[16:53] <rick_h> let me know if it shows up then
[16:54] <jrwren> a guy emailed me this morning asking if I had a resolution.
[16:54] <jrwren> I do not.
[16:54] <jrwren> it should be open item.
[16:54] <jrwren> what is buried mean?
[16:54] <jrwren> it doesn't even show as a question I asked. I'm amazed it was removed from that list
[16:59] <snap-l> Hmm, the new Nook touch looks Niiiiiice
[16:59] <rick_h> Nook tablet
[16:59] <snap-l> Yeah, the tablet looks good too
[16:59] <rick_h> oh, you mean the eink touch?
[16:59] <snap-l> http://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/nook-simple-touch-barnes-noble/1102344735
[17:00] <snap-l> Yeah, $99
[17:00] <snap-l> Going to have to bring some samples to BN to see how it work.
[17:00] <rick_h> cool
[17:02] <brousch> bah, B&W is for old people
[17:02] <ColonelPanic001> looks decent for $100
[17:02] <ColonelPanic001> b&w is plenty good for reading
[17:03] <jcastro> jrwren: you can't improve the question in any way whatsoever?
[17:03] <snap-l> Honestly, if it hooks to my fucking wifi, it's worth it
[17:03] <jrwren> jcastro: not really.
[17:03] <jrwren> maybe I could link to a bug a filed in LP
[17:05] <jcastro> anything would help
[17:24] <rick_h> smoser: you coming to mug tonight?
[17:50] <snap-l> Man
[17:50] <snap-l> Stupid network
[17:50] <rick_h> that good eh?
[17:51] <snap-l> Conked out again
[17:51] <snap-l> wonder if they're doing something
[17:53] <snap-l> http://publicdomainreview.org/2011/09/18/betty-boop-minnie-the-moocher-1932/
[18:03] <snap-l> Also: http://publicdomainreview.org/2011/10/15/vd-is-for-everybody-1969/
[18:33] <snap-l> jcastro: Got the Time Machine DVD in my hot little hands.
[18:38] <jcastro> OOOH.
[18:39] <snap-l> It has the movies without audience sound. :)
[18:40] <brousch> why are your hands hot?
[18:40] <snap-l> Because this is awesome
[18:45] <brousch> 1960 or 2002 version?
[18:46] <snap-l> 2011 version
[18:46] <snap-l> brousch: Try harder, you're not getting my goat that easy.
[18:47] <brousch> apparently i have no idea what you are talking about
[18:48] <brousch> oh, this is some rush thing
[18:49] <snap-l> brousch: Yes.
[18:51] <Wolfger> snap-l: I just realized you said Time Machine.... for some reason I initially thought you said Hot Tub Time Machine, and couldn't begin to understand why you were excited about that. Or even willing to admit it.
[18:51] <snap-l> Wolfger: I'm glad you had to think about it. :)
[18:51] <brousch> Wolfger: i thought he was really into old sci fi
[18:52] <brousch> like maybe it just came out on DVD
[18:52] <Wolfger> Yeah, when somebody says "DVD", I'm thinking "movie" not "music"
[18:52] <brousch> with an extra 30 seconds of morlocks
[18:52] <Wolfger> LOL
[18:52] <Wolfger> more locks
[18:52] <Wolfger> "Now with more 'locks!"
[18:52] <Wolfger> ;-)
[18:53] <brousch> snap-l: getting closer now?
[18:53] <snap-l> Barely.
[18:53] <snap-l> A for effort, though
[18:57] <dzho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_Machine_Tour <- just to thoroughly slay the equiine
[18:57] <dzho> s/ii/i/
[18:57] <Wolfger> snap-l and his hot Rush Time Machine
[18:59] <brousch> does it bother you that when i see Rush i think Limbaugh?
[19:00] <snap-l> Hugely
[19:00] <snap-l> I remember my dad saying that West Michigan had Rush listening parties
[19:00] <snap-l> was hugely bummed when I realized they were meaning that blowhard.
[19:00] <brousch> i'm not a copyhead, but many of the other people here are
[19:00] <snap-l> Dittohead
[19:01] <snap-l> Rush Limbaugh is cut from the same cloth as Howard Stern
[19:01] <snap-l> Except instead of glorifying porn stars, he glorifies idiocy. :)
[19:02] <snap-l> and rash behaviour
[19:02] <Wolfger> Stern's far better
[19:02] <snap-l> Stern is an artist
[19:02] <snap-l> He knows what buttons to push
[19:03] <Wolfger> well simply from the perspective of what he glorifies, he's far better
[19:03] <Wolfger> they are both top-notch button pushers
[19:22] <Wolfger> You know when something is advertised as "save $500" and they don't tell you the sale price, it's going to be a lot more than $500 *after* the discount...
[19:23] <snap-l> Yeah
[19:23] <snap-l> My favorite are the ones where it's "save up to $500"
[19:25] <Wolfger> "the more you buy, the more you save!"
[19:25] <Wolfger> no... the more I buy, the more I spend
[19:25] <Wolfger> I save most by buying nothing.
[19:28] <brousch> Wolfger: i can tell you're not a woman
[19:29] <dzho> because what would IRC be without sexist generalizations
[19:29] <greg-g> dzho: zing!
[19:30] <brousch> dzho: i shudder to think about it
[19:31] <greg-g> I might enjoy that new paradigm, personally :)
[19:33] <Wolfger> dzho: when a generalization is statistically accurate, is it still "wrong"?
[19:33] <Wolfger> and I say that as a man whose wife would test as "not a woman" by brousch's standard...
[19:35] <brousch> i didn't say that all women think that way, only than no man does
[19:35] <_stink_> too late, you're painted as a misogynist.
[19:36] <brousch> hm, wait, i guess i did say that
[20:06] <snap-l> I wonder if Dutch Boy has a color for mysoginist
[20:06] <snap-l> and I wonder if I have a spell checker.
[20:07] <brousch> i'm sure it's some shade of pink
[20:07] <brousch> maybe salmon, a fishy sort of pink
[20:13] <dzho> dusty rose
[21:07] <snap-l> http://www.blendernation.com/2011/11/08/cute-overload-my-little-ponies/
[21:12] <brousch> snap-l: are you a brony?
[21:15] <snap-l> hell no
[21:37] <brousch> Will there come a day when i won't have to click OK for someone because they accidentally clicked the D: and there's no disk in the drive?
[21:40] <_stink_> heh
[21:40] <snap-l> http://www.metalinjection.net/av/every-song-slayer-reign-in-blood-same-time
[21:40] <_stink_> i read that D: as an emoticon at first
[21:43] <ColonelPanic001> sounds like grindcore
[21:44] <snap-l> Yeah, although it sounds better than most of the dryer-fucking industrial I've heard out there.
[21:45] <ColonelPanic001> hah
[23:34] <smoser> rick_h, not coming to mug? no snap-l either ?
[23:36] <smoser> speak of the devil. snap-l arrives.
[23:40] <rick_h> smoser: yea, just running late today. Babysitter since the wife had stuff as well
[23:40] <widox> \
[23:45] <snap-l> Yeah, I was running a littlelate aswell
[23:50] <waldo323> traffic sucked


[00:05] <anastasiamac> katco: ping
[00:08] <katco> anastasiamac: howdy
[02:08] <alexisb> wallyworld, you around?
[02:08] <wallyworld> yes
[02:09] <alexisb> do you need to discuss anything with me before next week?
[02:09] <alexisb> if so I have time for a hangout
[02:09] <wallyworld> hmmm
[02:32]  * thumper hmmms...
[02:32]  * thumper is looking at the blocked command stuff
[02:32] <thumper> wallyworld: can we talk today?
[02:32] <wallyworld> sure
[02:32] <thumper> wallyworld: I have a meeting friday avo
[02:33] <wallyworld> ok, i'm free whenever
[02:33] <thumper> now?
[02:34] <thumper> jump in our 1:1 hangout
[02:34] <wallyworld> ok
[02:54] <ericsnow> axw: ping
[02:55] <axw> ericsnow: pong
[02:55] <ericsnow> axw: I've put up a first stab at "unit-get zone": http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/532/
[02:55] <ericsnow> axw: FYI
[02:55] <axw> ericsnow: thanks, I saw. I'm OCR tomorrow - okay to wait till then?
[02:56] <ericsnow> axw: no hurry
[02:57] <ericsnow> axw: just wanted to make sure it got your attention at some point (you were involved in the AZ discussions, right?)
[02:57] <axw> ericsnow: yep, I implemented 99% of it
[02:58] <axw> thanks. on brief perusal it looks good
[02:58] <ericsnow> axw: cool
[03:00] <ericsnow> axw: I was able to make good use of ZonedEnviron.InstanceAvailabilityZoneNames() :)
[03:01]  * ericsnow shuts down for the night
[03:02] <axw> ericsnow: night
[03:13] <thumper> anastasiamac: wallyworld is just being mean...
[03:14] <anastasiamac> thumper: really?...
[03:15] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: u wouldnt ;)
[03:16]  * wallyworld would :-P
[03:16] <anastasiamac> wallyworld: so do i continue with block changes or shall i wait for executive decision?
[03:53] <thumper> wallyworld: anastasiamac: it'll be interesting to see what the help text will look like for block/unblock when we have the supercommands in place, i.e. "juju machine remove", "juju environment destroy" etc
[03:56] <anastasiamac> thumper: wallyworld: juju block destroy|remove|change
[03:56] <anastasiamac> thumper: wallyworld: :P
[03:57]  * wallyworld otp
[03:58] <thumper> anastasiamac: seems fine to me...
[03:58] <anastasiamac> thumper: this can be done before supercommands ;-)
[03:59] <anastasiamac> thumper: shall i?
[03:59] <thumper> anastasiamac: double check with wallyworld, but I'm +1
[03:59] <anastasiamac> thumper: :) thnx
[04:12] <wallyworld> anastasiamac: juju block destroy-environment i think is still what we want
[04:13] <thumper> axw: got a minute?
[04:18] <axw> thumper: just about to eat lunch.. what's up?
[04:18] <thumper> axw: looking at the tests in cmd/juju/addmachine_test.go
[04:19] <thumper> axw: it looks like apiserver/client/client_test.go covers it all
[04:19] <thumper> axw: do you see any reason not to mock out the api all together?
[04:19] <thumper> axw: I'm messing with add and remove machine commands and moving them to a subcommand to test out top level aliases to subcommands (and deprecations)
[04:20] <axw> thumper: I'd like that, but I know some people would like them to remain like that so we have end-to-end integration tests
[04:20] <thumper> axw: fooey
[04:20] <axw> my preference would be to mock there and have integration tests elsewhere
[04:20] <thumper> axw: what I did for the user stuff was this:
[04:20] <thumper> axw: everything in the user subcommand package is mocked out
[04:21] <thumper> args and params tested exhaustively (to make sure we pass them to the api)
[04:21] <thumper> one test in cmd/juju to show it is hooked up end to end
[04:21] <thumper> we don't need to end to end test every path
[04:21] <thumper> just that it is hooked up
[04:21] <thumper> IMO
[04:21] <axw> that SGTM
[04:21] <thumper> coolio
[04:23] <axw> thumper: so we'll have cmd/juju/machine/ ?
[04:23] <thumper> axw: yep
[04:23] <axw> okey dokey
[04:23] <thumper> that's the plan
[04:23] <thumper> I'm using it as the test case for top level aliases
[04:23] <thumper> so 'juju add-machine' works as 'juju machine add'
[04:23] <thumper> with just some helper functions
[05:28] <axw> the calm, soothing sound of my squawking UPS
[05:39] <hatch> ahh that's such a beautiful sound
[05:40] <hatch> mine is a loud beep every 5s - just to let me know at 3-4am that the power has gone out and it needs to keep itself powered for that duration
[05:40] <hatch> such a helpful machine
[05:40] <hatch> :)
[08:35] <TheMue> morning
[08:48] <mattyw> morning everyone
[08:55] <TheMue> mattyw: o/
[09:40] <voidspace> dimitern: ping
[09:41] <voidspace> dimitern: should calling subnet.Destroy() on an already destroyed subnet be a no-op or an error
[09:41] <voidspace> dimitern: looking at service it looks like an error (specifically a wrapped jujutxn.ErrNoOperations)
[09:41] <voidspace> dimitern: so that's what I've done
[09:44] <dimitern> voidspace, hey
[09:44] <voidspace> dimitern: hi
[09:44] <dimitern> voidspace, I think it usually is a no-op
[09:45] <dimitern> voidspace, and where it isn't it should be :)
[09:45] <voidspace> dimitern: ok, no problem
[09:45] <voidspace> dimitern: it's very easy to change...
[09:46] <dimitern> voidspace, ok
[09:49] <voidspace> dimitern: http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/534/
[09:49] <voidspace> dimitern: "first cut", although I spent most of yesterday removing code
[09:50] <dimitern> voidspace, looking
[09:50] <voidspace> dimitern: it now just does the bare minimum for adding, fetching and removing subnets
[09:59] <jam> voidspace: what's the idea for upgrade step for this ?
[09:59] <jam> I guess mongo creates collections on the fly if they don't exist
[09:59] <voidspace> jam: shouldn't be needed
[09:59] <voidspace> jam: I specifically asked dimitern that yesterday
[09:59] <voidspace> jam: and he said created on first use
[10:00] <dimitern> voidspace, jam, yeah - that's how mongo works
[10:00] <jam> dimitern: standup ?
[10:24] <fwereade_> of those online... who is least unfamiliar with the uniter? I need someone who's willing to say "ship-it" (or "that's crap fix it") on http://reviews.vapour.ws/r/527/
[10:25] <fwereade_> TheMue, tasdomas, mattyw: I feel like each of you has half a chance of having touched it recently enough to have something of an opinion? ^^
[10:25] <mattyw> fwereade_, if you want an opinion I'm happy to enough to provide on
[10:26] <TheMue> fwereade_: will take a look too, sure
[10:54] <fwereade_> wallyworld, thoughts on docstrings like "Foo helps satisfy the package.Bar interface"? upside, just one place with "official" docs, less likelihood of drift; downside, you have to look over there to understand what the method's for
[10:57] <wallyworld> fwereade_: i like "Foo helps satisy Bar interface". IDEs have click through so it's trivial to navigate to interface to see real comment
[10:59] <fwereade_> wallyworld, cool, I tend to concur
[10:59] <fwereade_> wallyworld, I got distracted half way (hmm, more like 10%) through my previous docstring pass
[11:01] <wallyworld> there is a lot for sure
[11:02] <wallyworld> jam: you joining us for storage round 2?
[11:22] <jam> wallyworld: yeah, joining now, just had to get my son from the bus
[11:23] <jam> wallyworld: though it looks like you've already left ?
[11:23] <wallyworld> jam: `we ended it, will reschedule for next week it that's ok
[11:23] <jam> wallyworld: kd
[12:15] <voidspace> || is defined for strings but not &&?
[12:16] <voidspace> ah no
[12:16] <voidspace> only the first error was reported though
[12:19]  * fwereade_ has a *filthy* headache that's only getting worse, going to lie down
[12:21] <voidspace> fwereade_: :-(
[12:25] <dimitern> voidspace, almost finished with the review - I had a chat with fwereade_ till now
[12:28] <voidspace> dimitern: ok
[12:28] <voidspace> dimitern: I've been working on the changes I discussed with you and the comments from jam
[12:28] <voidspace> dimitern: although I'm not too keen on the "supersticious programming" change suggested by jam
[12:29] <voidspace> "shouldn't we use a loop just because..." :-p
[12:29] <jam> voidspace: so many places in the code where we have a transaction we put in a loop
[12:29] <dimitern> voidspace, ah
[12:29] <jam> I don't know that we need to do so here
[12:30] <dimitern> voidspace, jam, if we have a lot of asserts it makes sense to have a buildTxn callback (implicit loop) - if it's just one assert we can go without it
[12:31] <voidspace> I had one originally, but pulled it out
[12:31] <voidspace> the only error possible (so far) is if the document already exists
[13:00] <dimitern> voidspace, reviewed
[13:07] <voidspace> dimitern: thanks
[13:08] <voidspace> dimitern: "a few suggestions"...
[13:08] <voidspace> ;-)
[13:09] <voidspace> dimitern: appreciated, on the case with several of these already
[13:09] <dimitern> voidspace, sorry :) I seem to be picking up somewhat British way of expressing myself sometimes :)
[13:09] <voidspace> dimitern: a terrible curse
[13:10] <dimitern> lol
[14:45] <sinzui> jam, katco, ericsnow: can someone look into bug 1396625? if this is broken in the 1.21 branch we will need a fix backported to it
[14:45] <mup> Bug #1396625: container scoped relations between 2 subordinates broken in 1.20.12 <regression> <subordinate> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396625>
[14:46] <katco> sinzui: i'm trying to wrap up leadership before holiday, and i'm OCR today as well.
[14:47] <katco> sinzui: i will take a look this afternoon if i can.
[14:47] <sinzui> katco, sorry I am not asking any one person to fix the issue, we just need someone who can assess the regression. This may block 1.21.0 and require us ti do a 1.21.beta4
[14:48] <katco> sinzui: gotcha. i will take a look if at all possible. thanks for the heads-up :)
[15:20] <voidspace> dimitern: are collection fields automatically lower-cased by mongo? (or mgo - from doc struct fields which are capitalized)
[15:22] <dimitern> voidspace, yes they are
[15:22] <dimitern> voidspace, I think by mongo itself
[15:23] <fwereade_> voidspace, yes, I think it's mgo/bson that does it, and I like it very much when we're explicit about `bson:"whatever"`serializations
[15:23] <voidspace> dimitern: cool, looked that way from the code but I wanted confirmation
[15:23] <voidspace> fwereade_: coolio
[16:06] <voidspace> dimitern: you want to check for malformed AllocatableIPHigh and Low?
[16:06] <voidspace> dimitern: you also want to check they're within the CIDR?
[16:08] <dimitern> voidspace, I think it's worth it to validate them when set
[16:08] <voidspace> dimitern: ok
[16:09] <voidspace> dimitern: jam suggested moving all the validation into a CheckValid method on Subnet
[16:09] <voidspace> dimitern: do you think it's worth the effort?
[16:11] <dimitern> voidspace, I don't mind if we do the validation in a follow-up, but please at least add a TODO for it
[16:12] <voidspace> dimitern: ok
[16:12] <voidspace> dimitern: net.ParseIP doesn't return an error!
[16:12] <voidspace> checking to see what it does for invalid input
[16:13] <voidspace> dimitern: it returns net.IP(nil)
[16:13] <voidspace> odd
[16:13] <dimitern> voidspace, it doesn't but it returns nil
[16:14] <dimitern> voidspace, there's a method to call on net.IP to ensure it's valid
[16:15] <dimitern> voidspace, sorry, I was wrong - no such method; just check for nil I guess
[16:16] <voidspace> yep
[16:43] <voidspace> dimitern: there's an almost unbounded amount of additional validation we could do
[16:43] <voidspace> dimitern: e.g. both ipv4 or both ipv6, Low should be lower than high and so on
[16:44] <voidspace> dimitern: so I won't do those unless you feel strongly
[16:49] <voidspace> dimitern: I will note them
[18:16] <dimitern> voidspace, that sounds good to me - I agree we can improve it further, but not at the cost of stalling the implementation :)
[18:17] <dimitern> voidspace, I'll leave it to your judgment then
[18:18] <voidspace> dimitern: on the last bits now
[18:18] <voidspace> dimitern: do you really want a "Destroy" that just sets Life to Dying?
[18:18] <voidspace> dimitern: given that Remove requires Dead and EnsureDead sets Dead
[18:18] <voidspace> dimitern: there's no actual use (yet) for a Destroy
[18:20] <dimitern> voidspace, ok, let's skip Destroy for the time being
[18:20] <voidspace> dimitern: thanks :-)
[18:20] <voidspace> dimitern: I have ten minutes before EOD
[18:20] <voidspace> dimitern: I might finish...
[18:20] <voidspace> dimitern: maybe a test or two for before standup tomorrow
[18:22] <dimitern> voidspace, no rush :) it's going great so far
[18:22] <voidspace> dimitern: one issue
[18:22] <voidspace> dimitern: I added the unique index on providerid
[18:22] <voidspace> dimitern: added in state.open
[18:23] <dimitern> voidspace, and it doesn't work when unset?
[18:23] <voidspace> dimitern: it doesn't work
[18:23] <voidspace> dimitern: I can add two subnets with the same providerid
[18:23] <voidspace> dimitern: it's fine unset
[18:23] <voidspace> although that hadn't occurred to me
[18:23] <dimitern> voidspace, hmm.. I kinda suspected that.. have you tried the "sparse" flag for the index as jam suggested?
[18:23] <voidspace> it needs to be "unique if set", which is slightly different
[18:23] <voidspace> dimitern: it doesn't seem to work *at all*
[18:24] <dimitern> voidspace, ah, sorry
[18:24] <voidspace> dimitern: I haven't tried sparse - that might be needed *as well*
[18:24] <voidspace> dimitern: however I wonder if the indexes are used for the test as we seem to have special ways of creating the state for tests
[18:24] <dimitern> voidspace, that's odd.. maybe due to the "omitempty" tag - not quite sure
[18:25] <voidspace> dimitern: can topic with jam tomorrow
[18:25] <voidspace> there's a note in the test
[18:25] <voidspace> it currently passes when it shouldn't :-)
[18:26] <dimitern> voidspace, yeah.. I'll have a look tomorrow - I'm sure I used unique indices like that before
[18:26] <dimitern> voidspace, but there might be subtleties that escape me now
[18:27] <voidspace> yeah
[18:27] <voidspace> I'm on the other bits right now, but I won't forget it
[18:27] <dimitern> voidspace, cheers
[18:28] <dimitern> voidspace, sorry for my nit picking.. but I'm overly cautious with any state code due to past issues :)
[18:31] <dimitern> anyway, eod for me
[18:31] <dimitern> g'night all!
[18:31] <voidspace> dimitern: g'night
[18:32] <voidspace> dimitern: cya tomorrow
[18:32] <voidspace> I'm EOD too
[20:06] <thumper> fwereade_: ping
[21:43] <wallyworld_> thumper: that jujuc symlink issue was caused by a fix to a different bug 1391645
[21:43] <mup> Bug #1391645: Tools linking issue 1.21beta1 for collocated services <tech-debt> <juju-core:Fix Released by axwalk> <juju-core 1.21:Fix Released by axwalk> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1391645>
[21:43] <wallyworld_> thumper: i'll get andrew to look into it
[21:43] <thumper> wallyworld_: we are looking now
[21:44] <thumper> wallyworld_: as it is blocking our work
[21:44] <wallyworld_> ah, bollocks
[21:44] <wallyworld_> thumper: there's also this one 1396625
[21:44] <wallyworld_> bug 1396625
[21:44] <mup> Bug #1396625: container scoped relations between 2 subordinates broken in 1.20.12 <regression> <subordinate> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396625>
[21:44] <thumper> yeah, not sure about that one...
[21:44] <wallyworld_> i think this is associated with the fix menno did
[21:44] <thumper> fwereade_ said it should be allowed
[21:45] <thumper> but we used to allow it by mistake
[21:45] <wallyworld_> ask menno, he may be able to tweak his previous fix
[21:45] <thumper> should NOT be allowed
[21:45] <wallyworld_> oh
[21:45] <thumper> yeah
[21:45] <thumper> I'm wanting fwereade_ to look at it
[21:45] <wallyworld_> so you saying it's a won't fix?
[21:45] <wallyworld_> ok
[21:46] <wallyworld_> thumper: so let me know if you need us to look at the jujuc bug, if you get stuck etc
[21:46] <thumper> wallyworld_: I have a back port of a bug
[21:46] <thumper> Just going to land it on 1.21
[21:47] <thumper> I thought it wasn't a problem there, but it is
[21:47] <thumper> as I have found by debugging it
[21:47] <wallyworld_> which bug?
[21:47]  * thumper loks
[21:48] <thumper> https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1395564
[21:48] <mup> Bug #1395564: jujud constantly spews `juju.worker runner.go:219 exited "identity-file-writer": StateServingInfo not available and we need it` <juju-core:In Progress by thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1395564>
[21:48] <wallyworld_> oh, that one
[21:49] <wallyworld_> and you did find an all machines issue by the looks
[21:49] <wallyworld_> yay :-(
[21:49]  * thumper nods
[21:50] <thumper> it is all a bit shit
[21:53] <katco> thumper: the review you have up, it's a backport?
[21:53] <thumper> yep
[21:53] <thumper> just running all the tests to make sure they still pass before gettin gthe bot to do it
[21:53] <katco> thumper: any reason i shouldn't rubber-stamp this? it looks plausibly correct
[21:53] <thumper> katco: axw  reviewed the master version
[21:53] <thumper> rubber-stamp away
[21:53]  * katco reels back
[21:53]  * katco ka-thump
[21:55] <katco> wallyworld_: if you have any questions about my responses to your review, lmk. especially the one concerning state. i couldn't really find a better way.
[21:55] <wallyworld_> katco: np, i haven't started looking yet
[21:55] <katco> wallyworld_: np
[21:59] <thumper> wallyworld_: I don't suppose you have the old review for axw's tool change
[21:59] <thumper> ?
[21:59] <wallyworld_> i can look
[22:01] <wallyworld_> thumper: here's the pr for the backport to 1.21 https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1136
[22:01] <wallyworld_> the review board link seems to be gone
[22:01] <thumper> ta
[22:02] <thumper> gee I miss the links to the code reviews in the bugs
[22:02] <wallyworld_> yep :-(
[22:02] <wallyworld_> i miss launchpad
[23:07] <fwereade_> thumper, hum, that's an interesting bug, isn't it :(
[23:08] <thumper> fwereade_: which one?
[23:08] <thumper> I have three on the go
[23:08] <fwereade_> thumper, heh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1396625
[23:08] <mup> Bug #1396625: container scoped relations between 2 subordinates broken in 1.20.12 <regression> <subordinate> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396625>
[23:08] <thumper> fwereade_: and a fourth I wanted to talk to you about
[23:08] <fwereade_> thumper, ok, I'm going to get a drink then, hangout?
[23:08] <thumper> sure
[23:52] <fwereade_> menn0, ping
[23:53] <menn0> fwereade_: hi
[23:53] <fwereade_> menn0, so, https://bugs.launchpad.net/juju-core/+bug/1396625
[23:53] <mup> Bug #1396625: container scoped relations between 2 subordinates broken in 1.20.12 <regression> <subordinate> <juju-core:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/1396625>
[23:53] <fwereade_> menn0, I am conflicted
[23:53] <menn0> fwereade_: yep
[23:53] <fwereade_> menn0, hangout?>
[23:53] <menn0> fwereade_: ok
[23:55] <thumper> wallyworld_, waigani, menn0: https://github.com/juju/juju/pull/1226
[23:55] <thumper> just running all the tests now
[23:55]  * thumper goes for a jog with the god
[23:55] <thumper> dog
[23:55] <wallyworld_> if it were a cat
[23:56] <wallyworld_> then it would think it's a god


[00:54] <jbicha> bug 1643183
[00:56] <jbicha> I don't use Budgie, just passing the bug along
[12:34] <jbicha> I don't know if current zesty is affeted, that bug was reported at the very beginning of zesty when it wasn't much different than yakkety
[12:39] <fossfreedom_> jbicha: the last comments were very recent - I presume the sudden reappearance of the option in gnome-control-center was with the GTK+3.14 landing
[12:40] <fossfreedom_> * 3.24
[19:02] <freakyy> hi all. how do i get exactly the default look of ubuntu budgie 17.04 in ubuntu 17.04 which has been upgraded from budgie-remix ubuntu 16.10?
[22:30] <fossfreedom> freakyy: what do you mean "exact default look" ? the layout/themes/fonts are the same as 16.10
[22:40] <freakyy> No I meant default boot up acreen


[02:57] <jiger> hello how can I check if I am booting via upstart or no?
[02:57] <cortana> jiger: check /proc/1/exe ?
[02:58] <jiger> there is no /proc/1/exe
[02:59] <jiger> top shows 1 as init
[02:59] <cortana> then you're not using linux... perhaps you don't have permission to read it, i seem to only be able to read it if i am root
[03:00] <jiger> ohhh wait only works with sudo. hmmmm but ls shows nothing
[03:00] <jiger> wonder why booting kubuntu takes so long
[03:01] <jiger> cortana: and why is process 1 init?
[03:02] <cortana> well it's a symlink to a processes' executable file
[03:02] <cortana> it guess it depends how you have upstart installed
[03:02] <cortana> maybe it has replaced the /sbin/init file
[03:04] <jiger> cortana: but isn't upstart executable called upstart?
[03:05] <cortana> depends how you have it installed
[03:05] <jiger> cortana: any definitive way to check>
[03:05] <cortana> i don't even have it installed here :)
[03:05] <cortana> ask your package manager what owns the file?
[03:05] <jiger> cortana: I did a dapper to edgy
[03:05] <jiger> cortana: u ain't running ubuntu?
[03:05] <jiger> cortana: command?
[03:06] <cortana> dpkg --search i think
[03:07] <jiger> upstart-compat-sysv: /usr/share/doc/upstart-compat-sysv
[03:07] <jiger> system-services: /usr/lib/upstart/migrate-inittab.pl
[03:07] <jiger> upstart-logd: /usr/share/doc/upstart-logd
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart/copyright
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart/changelog.gz
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart/NEWS.gz
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart/AUTHORS
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart/changelog.Debian.gz
[03:07] <jiger> system-services: /usr/lib/upstart
[03:07] <jiger> upstart: /usr/share/doc/upstart/README.Debian.gz
[03:07] <jiger> strikes anything?
[03:08] <cortana> it's dpkg --search /sbin/init
[03:08] <cortana> to find out what package owns /sbin/init
[03:09] <jiger> upstart: /sbin/init
[03:09] <jiger> good? ontrack?
[03:09] <cortana> then it seems you are using upstart
[03:09] <jiger> cortana: then wonder why it is so slow to boot
[03:10] <cortana> afaik upstart doesn't make anything aster
[03:10] <cortana> *faster
[03:10] <jiger> cortana: slightly slower than dapper
[03:10] <cortana> but i can't really say since i don't use it
[03:10] <jiger> cortana:  doesn't it load possible services in parellel ?
[03:10] <jiger> cortana: might not be immen. but in future aim?
[03:11] <cortana> maybe, but if those services are both competing for the same resource then they won't load any quicker
[03:11] <jiger> cortana: hmmm hope next ubuntu makes it fast.
[03:11] <jiger> cortana: thanks for the help
[06:27] <madduck> Keybuk: http://www.metager2.de/ -- Michael Biebl is now the maintainer for Debian and I suggest you link to http://packages.debian.org/upstart instead as the package won't be experimental forever.
[06:27] <Keybuk> thanks
[06:27] <madduck> oops
[06:27] <madduck> http://upstart.ubuntu.com/
[06:27] <madduck> i mean.
[06:27] <madduck> you can keep me in if youw ant, i am comaintainer...
[06:27] <madduck> (though i have not done much)
[06:28] <Keybuk> *nods*
[06:30] <AlexExtreme> Keybuk: you busy atm with uds-mtv or can I ask a quick question?
[06:32] <AlexExtreme> oh, nvm, just got some of your emails on the mailing list - my mail server is a bit laggy today
[06:38] <Keybuk> AlexExtreme: you can always ask questions :)
[06:38] <Keybuk> I just may not reply instantly
[06:38] <AlexExtreme> ok :)
[06:39] <Keybuk> what was your question?
[06:39] <AlexExtreme> well, just a quick (and stupid - /me points at crazy (another frugalware devel) ;)) question - will hal ever be needed by upstart?
[06:40] <Keybuk> I suspect HAL will become an important source of events
[06:40] <Keybuk> as unlike udev, it has policy
[06:40] <Keybuk> udev can give you a "a block device has been added"
[06:40] <AlexExtreme> but not actually *required*, meaning you could run upstart without it?
[06:40] <Keybuk> HAL can give you "a block device ON A DIGITAL CAMERA has been added"
[06:40] <Keybuk> right
[06:41] <AlexExtreme> good
[06:41] <Keybuk> very little of upstart will be required
[06:41] <Keybuk> just the /sbin/init daemon and some IPC mechanism to send events to it
[06:41] <Keybuk> other than that, everything else will be optional
[06:41] <AlexExtreme> k
[06:41] <AlexExtreme> crazy: there, got your question answered
[06:41] <AlexExtreme> :)
[06:41] <Keybuk> hmm?
[06:42] <AlexExtreme> crazy wanted me to ask that
[06:42] <Keybuk> ahh
[06:43] <Keybuk> on the dbus thing
[06:43] <Keybuk> I'm still debating the custom IPC vs. dbus thing
[06:44] <AlexExtreme> ok
[06:44] <AlexExtreme> bbl, food
[06:44] <mbiebl> Keybuk: did you advise Md to reassign the udev problem in Debian to upstart-compat-sysv?
[06:45] <Keybuk> mbiebl: yes
[06:45] <Keybuk> both the problems are definitely upstart
[06:45] <Keybuk> in Debian, I'd argue that you need "console owner" in the compat-sysv jobs; simply because Debian doesn't have a "no boot messages" policy, so init scripts are well within their rights to expect stdin=/dev/console
[06:46] <Keybuk> also there's definitely a bug that the rcS job doesn't set RUNLEVEL or PREVLEVEL (note that rc-everything-else does :p)
[06:46] <mbiebl> Sure, we don't have that policy, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't make sense to have everything logged to file instead to stdout
[06:46] <Keybuk> right, but it's also inherently not a udev bug
[06:46] <Keybuk> you're well within your rights to reject it
[06:46] <mbiebl> ;-)
[06:47] <mbiebl> The problem with console owner is, that it makes logd pretty useless.
[06:47] <Keybuk> right
[06:48] <Keybuk> needs improvement
[06:48] <AlexExtreme> Yes, I pointed that out on upstart-devel. /var/log/boot contains nothing then
[06:48] <AlexExtreme> maybe I should try improving it for something to do? ;)
[06:48] <AlexExtreme> anyway, gotta go
[06:48] <mbiebl> Keybuk: you know, I want to give the user the choice, if they want verbose output or not.
[06:48] <Keybuk> mbiebl: *nods*
[06:48] <mbiebl> So imho udev needs this "fix"
[06:49] <Keybuk> md is well within his rights to refuse the fix
[06:49] <mbiebl> Well, I guess I'll just ask Md to add " -o $TTY /dev/null" to his am_i_interactive check.
[06:49] <Keybuk> *nods*
[06:49] <Keybuk> that may be a good compromise
[06:49] <Keybuk> talk to him about it
[06:50] <Keybuk> Marco responds very well to conversation through medium other than the BTS
[06:50] <mbiebl> hehe
[06:51] <mbiebl> What about cryptsetup, how do solve that in ubuntu?
[06:51] <mbiebl> exec <1>2 /dev/console ?
[06:56] <mbiebl> I mean: exec </dev/console >/dev/console 2>&1?
[06:56] <mbiebl> Seems a bit "hackish" to add that to a dozen of init scripts.
[06:57] <mbiebl> Wouldn't it be better to have something like input/output functions, which forward the request to upstart instead of doing the input/output itself.
[06:58] <mbiebl> Would something like that be possible.
[06:59] <_ion> They should support a splash program as well.
[06:59] <mbiebl> _ion: yes, it wouldn't matter how this information is presented.
[06:59] <_ion> I don't think upstart needs to know about them, though.
[07:08] <mbiebl> Keybuk: what are your top priorities for upstart in the near future?
[07:09] <mbiebl> I wanted to "convert" existing init scripts and noticed that "pid file" and "multiple events" support are needed for a lot of services.
[07:11] <mbiebl> I hacked together some kind of pid file support, which works most of the time.
[07:12] <mbiebl> But it's rather hard to do that right.
[07:27] <cortana> ugh, i thought one of the advantages of upstart is to do away with pidfiles?
[07:32] <mbiebl> cortana: there are still services which don't deal well with being started in foreground.
[07:32] <mbiebl> They have to be tracked somehow. Most of them write pid files.
[07:32] <_ion> Use the "daemon" stanza
[07:35] <mbiebl> _ion: this only works, if the "daemon" does not fork and detach.
[07:36] <_ion>                 /* daemon (WS <command>)?
[07:36] <_ion>                  * indicates that the process forks into the background
[07:36] <_ion>                  * so we need to grovel for its process id
[07:38] <mbiebl> _ion: try it, you'll see that it doesn't work for daemon's which fork
[07:38] <_ion> Then it has a bug, which should be fixed.
[07:39] <mbiebl> Is it even possible for upstart to determine the pid of the forked process?
[07:39] <mbiebl> I dunno.
[07:42] <mbiebl> How should it be done? By traversing /proc checking for a process with the same name as the binary specified in the upstart job file?
[07:43] <mbiebl> Wouldn't work reliably imo.
[07:44] <AlexExtreme> yeah, i mean, what if the daemon changes the process title or forks itself into multiple processes
[07:45] <mbiebl> AlexExtreme: exactly.
[07:46] <_ion> keybuk: Could you share your insight on the issue?
[07:50] <_ion> IIRC it has something to do with pid 1 getting SIGCHLD for parentless processes.
[07:54] <mbiebl> _ion: hm, ok. but take hald e.g. which spawns several sub processes.
[07:54] <mbiebl> How do you know, which one is the controlling daemon.
[07:55] <_ion> I haven't studied how upstart handles or is supposed to handle that.
[07:55] <_ion> Let's wait for Keybuk's answer. :-)
[08:12] <Keybuk> mbiebl: input/output functions are the expected way to do it
[08:12] <Keybuk> then we can provide implementations that deal with console, usplash, text-to-speech, braille, etc.
[08:12] <Keybuk> mbiebl: current list in my head is
[08:12] <Keybuk> 1. fix the IPC stuff
[08:12] <Keybuk> 2. implement the events changes we've talked about
[08:13] <Keybuk> 3. multiple events, optional events
[08:13] <Keybuk> 4. event completion notification
[08:13] <Keybuk> 5. job changes we've talked about
[08:13] <Keybuk> 6. temporal jobs
[08:13] <Keybuk> 7. user jobs
[08:14] <Keybuk> and, on pid location, the idea is that you spawn the daemon
[08:14] <Keybuk> and then look for either the /proc/*/exe matching "pid binary"
[08:14] <Keybuk> or the "pid file" file which should contain the pid
[08:14] <Keybuk> we get SIGCHLD for these later
[08:15] <sladen> it would certainly be more consistent if upstart does the handling of pid saving
[08:17] <mbiebl> Regarding the /proc/*/exe matching: How would you handle e.g. sshd?
[08:17] <mbiebl> It spawns several sub processes for each connected user and you certainly don't want to kill the wrong pid ;-)
[08:18] <Keybuk> sladen: this is for processes that fork
[08:19] <Keybuk> mbiebl: first one
[08:19] <Keybuk> you only locate the pid once
[08:19] <Keybuk> then again, sshd would be run with -D
[08:19] <mbiebl> But what if you start multiple instances of a daemon.
[08:20] <mbiebl> (SSH on prt 24 and 22 e.g.)
[08:21] <_ion> I thought you can set both in sshd_config.
[08:22] <madduck> you can
[08:22] <madduck> you might want to have different settings though
[08:22] <mbiebl> But I guess most daemons either write pid files are can be run properly in foreground.
[08:22] <madduck> my port 22 sshd never allows root access.
[08:22] <mbiebl> So this option is not that important.
[08:22] <madduck> i have an sshd allowing without-password on a port that changes often
[08:24] <_ion> Btw, instances of sshd spawned for logged-in users have the initial sshd as their parent.
[08:27] <mbiebl> Md: hi
[08:30] <Keybuk> indeed, it's only the multiple-daemon-that-pid-is-1 that's a problem


[00:09] <ryanakca> Sco/wn 25
[00:09] <ryanakca> Oops
[00:10] <bulldog98> rbelem: is the active meeting on now?
[00:10] <ryanakca> Riddell: Alright, I'll look at that. Wouldn't strict dependency on python-sip version require a new python-poppler-qt4 version every time python-si is uploaded?
[00:14] <Riddell> ryanakca: half strict
[00:51] <Riddell> afiestas http://community.kde.org/Plasma/Active/Development
[00:51] <Riddell> afiestas: /join #ubuntu-uds-room-204
[00:52] <afiestas>  /join #ubuntu-uds-room-204
[00:52] <afiestas> ups xd
[01:03]  * bulldog98 is off for sleep
[01:22] <Riddell> thanks Blizzz
[01:22] <Riddell> tsk
[01:22] <Riddell> thanks bulldog98
[13:02] <BluesKaj> hiyas all
[13:12] <shadeslayer> hi BluesKaj
[13:13] <BluesKaj> hey shadeslayer
[13:14] <BluesKaj> 12.10 here and I assume 4.8.3 is default
[13:15] <shadeslayer> what
[13:15] <BluesKaj> shadeslayer, got my test HDD setup and running , without a hitch , which surprised me a little :)
[13:15] <shadeslayer> you upgraded to 12.10 already?
[13:15] <shadeslayer> ah
[13:15] <shadeslayer> :D
[13:16] <BluesKaj> yup, still got 12.04 on the main drive
[13:17] <shadeslayer> I'm going to stick with 12.04 for a bit
[13:17] <BluesKaj> this is an older IDE drive from 2005 , perfect for experimentation
[13:22] <BluesKaj> WD1600.is solid as a rock .however, the main HDD is a Seagate which I'm not so confident about
[14:48] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: btw, did you collect data on where we spend time when testing?
[14:49] <shadeslayer> can I get back to you on that after the 1st of June? :D
[14:51] <shadeslayer> quassel seriously needsa way to highlight a certain subset of channels so that I can switch to them quickly
[14:51] <shadeslayer>   /join is too slow
[14:54] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: zomg
[14:54] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: huh?
[14:54]  * shadeslayer is unsure why apachelogger is so fascinated
[14:55] <apachelogger> 1st of june
[14:55] <apachelogger> tooling should have been done like months ago
[14:56] <shadeslayer> yes, and we should have had a tooling meeting months ago
[14:57] <apachelogger> yes
[14:57] <apachelogger> but without data that doesn't make sense anyway :P
[15:11] <apachelogger> is image size being discussed at uds?
[15:16] <apachelogger> sven423: http://i.imgur.com/cfRfi.png
[15:16] <sven423> hmmm
[15:16] <sven423> layout bug... *checking*
[15:17] <apachelogger> sven423: also is the dialog to pop up on first start?
[15:17] <sven423> apachelogger: yes, as the services not are being initialized on startup these days
[15:18] <sven423> any not once the user opens them
[15:18] <apachelogger> so I'd think it should wait there until I try to use it
[15:18] <apachelogger> as it is right now the dialog seems utterly out of context and confusing
[15:19] <sven423> I completely agree
[15:20] <sven423> and *damn* I don't have that layout problem here
[15:21] <sven423> ah, on resizing
[15:24] <apachelogger> it is default for me
[15:24] <apachelogger> and not only me :)
[15:25] <apachelogger> http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/computers_years/2012_1/kubuntu-pangolin-amazon-locale.jpg
[15:25] <apachelogger> sven423: seems the window size is not locked to the minimum widget size (or there is none to begin with ^^)
[15:41] <sven423> apachelogger: i hate designing dialogs... calling adjustSize() on it should make it readable for you by default too, right?
[15:42] <apachelogger> only if the hints are proper
[15:42] <apachelogger> plus it still doesn't prevent the user from resizing it below the minimum size
[15:43] <apachelogger> hence I would tryto get minimum right, that way you get the right size at any rate
[15:44] <sven423> apachelogger: how do I get the minimum the right(TM) way?
[15:44] <apachelogger> dunno, I am library author :P
[15:44] <apachelogger> also gotta leave right now
[15:44] <apachelogger> I'll look into it later
[15:45] <sven423> k, gonna play with it a bit
[15:50] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ping
[16:30] <brestows> Hi !
[16:31] <brestows> gtk application crash in Kubuntu 12.04 how to fix?
[16:31] <Riddell> hi shadeslayer
[16:31] <shadeslayer> Riddell: see pm :)
[16:48] <brestows> kubuntu 12.04 oxygen-gtk theme gtk application crash :( this bug KDE ?
[17:23] <nixternal> hola
[17:29] <nixternal> what are the kubuntu folks talking about today at uds?
[17:31] <maco> ponies, if harald has anything to say about it
[17:35] <nixternal> he is more of a unicorn person than a pony person
[17:35] <micahg> is he at UDS?
[17:35] <nixternal> doubt it
[17:41] <Riddell> packaging now /join #ubuntu-uds-grand-ballroom-g
[17:41] <Riddell> images next
[17:44] <BluesKaj> Riddell, speeches ?
[18:13] <yofel> bah, I'm totally out of sync with the UDS schedule this time -.-
[18:14] <yofel> Riddell, shadeslayer: did I miss anything particulary important in the packaging session?
[18:14] <shadeslayer> I barely caught that one
[18:14] <shadeslayer> yofel: likewise
[18:16] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: where are you today?
[19:20] <nixternal> seed files, what does (foobar) mean? ie. a package wrapped in parentheses
[19:20] <Ezim> nixternal, is not foobar a music player?
[19:20] <Ezim> can be wrong
[19:21] <nixternal> no no, want to know the purpose of the parentheses in seed files
[19:21] <Ezim> nixternal, okey. no clue :).
[19:22] <Riddell> nixternal: it's Recommended
[19:22] <Riddell> not Depends:
[19:22] <nixternal> ahh, groovy thanks
[19:22] <Riddell> nixternal: so if it can be removed and still consider the result "kubuntu" then it can be a recommends
[19:23] <nixternal> perfect. creating custom seeds for a custom client distro. this way using a simple script & live-build can be done by anyone
[19:24]  * nixternal notes how simple it is to build a custom debian, slack, arch, centos distro, but not an ubuntu distro
[19:25] <nixternal> ^^ Task makes the ubuntu one a pain. with the other ones i listed, i don't need my own local mirror
[23:56] <Riddell> DarkwingUDS: I'm by the intel desk in the foyer


[15:27] <JCP123> Hello, is there anyone here who is familiar with mono?
[15:42] <JCP123> does anyone here know how to get mono to load a specific dll to run an app?


[00:04] <paul_h1> TheMuso: any idea of the timescales we're talking about? I mean in terms of getting everything ready for binux to be proposed as an official variant of ubuntu and then using it to pilot changes that could then be incorporated into the main ubuntu cd?
[00:05] <TheMuso> paul_h1: It will never be an official variant of Ubuntu as such, its going to be a testing ground for Ubuntu accessibility. We will use the Ubuntu archive + a PPA to build disks.
[00:06] <dutchie> ping AlanBell and Pendulum re: persona
[00:09] <paul_h1> TheMuso: oh okay. so same question really. any idea as to when we can start doing this?  I do realise it's something you do when you've got time :) just wondering if you have any idea on roughly how long it's gonna take :)
[00:10] <TheMuso> paul_h1: No ETA, its done when its done.
[00:30] <Pendulum> dutchie: heya
[00:30] <dutchie> Pendulum: any news on them?
[00:31] <Pendulum> dutchie: I failed to get anything done :-/
[00:31] <dutchie> :(
[00:31] <dutchie> i did mine
[00:31] <Pendulum> I'm aiming for by the end of this week
[00:31] <Pendulum> and I think AlanBell did his
[00:32] <Pendulum> I've got 2 long carrides in the next 3 days so I'm going to try to work on them from the car and then stick them in the etherpad docs when I'm online
[00:32] <dutchie> cool#
[06:47] <AlanBell> Pendulum: no, I started it, but didn't get far
[06:48] <AlanBell> will be doing more work on it over the next week or so
[12:13] <AlanBell> 12:10 < gord> there is no accessibility stuff in unity for this release, it sucks, we know :( just didn't have anyone on staff to do it. we are hiring people to take  care of that for 11.04 i think though
[12:15] <Pendulum> missing in more than just Unity. I'm really not thrilled about the whole "can't use Orca to install Maverick" thing
[12:15] <Pendulum> :-/
[12:17] <AlanBell> yeah, but I don't know who to poke about that one!
[12:18] <Pendulum> no idea
[12:19] <Pendulum> I'm not even sure if there's been a bug filed on it yet
[12:19] <AlanBell> well I guess I should do another blog post comparing the Lucid install (which sucks) to the Maverick install (which is basically impossible)
[12:20] <Pendulum> go for it :-)
[12:20] <Pendulum> I suppose the good news is that it's better on the LTS?
[12:20] <AlanBell> kind of
[12:20] <Pendulum> s/better/not completely broken
[12:21] <AlanBell> guess it needs an accessible webkit
[12:22] <AlanBell> although I can see an argument for a whole separate installer for audio
[12:22] <AlanBell> must try vinux too
[12:29] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:31] <AlanBell> what I think would be nice is if you start the live CD without a monitor plugged in it just does an audio install
[12:31] <AlanBell> which would work well for the headless server in a rack scenario
[12:33] <Pendulum> yeah
[12:34] <Pendulum> okay, I'm out until probably Wednesday night or Thursday. I hope everyone has a good week!


[09:17] <JonathanD> Good morning.
[09:21] <rmg51> Morning
[09:21] <JonathanD> How's it going?
[09:23] <rmg51> slow
[09:24] <JonathanD> Same.
[12:38] <teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else


[01:10] <pace_t_zulu> Juzzy: you in middle tn?
[01:21] <pace_t_zulu> (based on your hostname)
[01:43] <pace_t_zulu> Juzzy: ping
[01:51] <wrst> cool chris4585
[01:51] <chris4585> wrst, it was fun trying to figure out the proper .desktop syntax... I could get one menu entry in but not the others, I was simply missing a ;
[01:52] <chris4585> brb
[01:52] <wrst> i see you are rocking the transparency also, and how did you get the icons to show up chris4585, dropbox etc?
[01:53] <chris4585> oh there is a trick to allow every systray to show
[01:53] <chris4585> let me find it
[01:53] <wrst> hmm kinda irritates me if its going to stay that way that you have to have a trick for dropbox to show
[01:54] <chris4585> well I have dropbox indicator actually
[01:54] <chris4585> but xchat and wakoopa (skype is the exception for systray) are there because of a edit
[01:54] <wrst> that's a pain i get updates in the notification but no icon
[01:55] <chris4585> http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/how-to-re-enable-notification-area.html
[01:55] <chris4585> I follow webup8, and the guy who runs it is really cool, I suggest reading his blog for unity / ubuntu hints, tricks, updates etc..
[01:58] <chris4585> also the right amount of transparency and right wallpaper makes the panel look stunning
[01:58] <chris4585> brb
[13:31] <cyberanger> Morning everyone
[13:35] <wrst> hey cyberanger how are you doing?
[13:37] <cyberanger> Great, Getting excited for nashville on the 30th
[13:39] <wrst> cool cyberanger sounds like it will be fun
[13:40] <cyberanger> yeah, any chance you can make it?
[13:43] <wrst> no not really cyberanger would love to but i'm up to my eyeballs in everything
[13:45] <cyberanger> Well, I expected as much, I still want something in cookeville long term, timing constraints limit my involvement too
[13:45] <cyberanger> Hopefully just shy of uselessness
[13:47] <cyberanger> oh well, do what's gotta be done, right?
[13:48] <cyberanger> wrst: if we could get something going in cookeville (not looking for april or may, at least early may, but further down the road a little) you think you'd be able to join too
[13:52] <wrst> yeah that should be doable just right now making the trip is not likely for me
[13:53] <cyberanger> I understand, I had a pretty empty month, with EVERYTHING piled on to that week (no intentions to do that, just luck that nothing has doublebooked yet)
[13:55] <wrst> life has a way of getting in the way :)
[13:57] <cyberanger> and when I say week, I mean the 29th (mostly doctors appts) 30th (A school reunion of sorts, nashville meetup) and moving on the 1st to a different apartment in town
[14:02] <cyberanger> it is life, short from an ARES event on the 2nd, quiet month, just odd
[14:03] <wrst> oh man moving that stinks... unless its a better place, but moving still stinks :)
[14:06] <Xpistos> morning gents
[14:06] <Xpistos> wrst
[14:07] <wrst> morning Xpistos
[14:07] <Xpistos> stupid error messages in ff about protocol (c)
[14:08] <Xpistos> ???
[14:12] <cyberanger> hrm
[14:41] <cyberanger> and recently xorg has been failing, but unlike quassel I can stay on IRC and complain about it
[14:41] <cyberanger> wrst: ^^
[14:42] <cyberanger> Xpistos: more details on that
[14:42] <wrst> cyberanger:  don't worry i can get my cli on when i need to :P
[14:42] <cyberanger> Xpistos: ?
[14:42] <Xpistos> oh sorry
[14:42] <cyberanger> wrst: lol
[14:42] <wrst> :D
[14:42] <Xpistos> "Firefox doesn't know how to open this address, because the protocol (c) isn't associated with any program." Any ideas?
[14:43] <cyberanger> perhaps, what were you doing at that moment
[14:43] <cyberanger> wrst: well, it failed just now, need to reinstall this rig shortly anyhow
[14:43] <cyberanger> just waiting for my drives first
[14:44] <wrst> cyberanger: i NEVER have xorg problems anymore but i don't tweak things to death either ;)
[14:45] <cyberanger> lol, while I've tweaked this one to hell and back, doesn't explain this problem
[14:45] <cyberanger> Xpistos: perhaps, what were you doing at that moment?
[14:45] <Xpistos> nothing
[14:46] <Xpistos> it just pops up after a while whether I am doing somethign or not
[14:46] <cyberanger> oh, first two things I'd do are check for updates
[14:47] <cyberanger> and run 'firefox -P' create a new profile to use for a short while, no prompts, then it's in your profile
[14:50] <cyberanger> let me see here if I can narrow down things a little, but that will really help
[14:51] <cyberanger> sense it sounds like a profile issue
[15:06] <Xpistos> cyberanger: windows pox
[15:06] <Xpistos> box
[15:07] <cyberanger> Xpistos: advice stands
[15:08] <cyberanger> however that could be useful detail for researching on my end
[15:09] <Xpistos> not asking me to vreate a new profile just launching ff
[15:10] <Xpistos> oh there we go
[15:11] <cyberanger> Got it? (You have to close out firefox then run that, or else it just spawns a new window under the current process, not launching a new process with the profile manager)
[15:33] <Xpistos> cyberanger: I will hollar at you if it happens now
[15:51] <Xpistos> cyberanger: It is still doing it
[16:40] <cyberanger> Xpistos: shoot
[16:41] <cyberanger> sorry for the bit AFK
[16:41] <cyberanger> (well from this terminal, not the offline one in the next room)
[16:41] <Xpistos> Firefox is giving me the popup in the new profile
[16:41] <Xpistos> lol
[16:41] <cyberanger> no new updates
[16:42] <Xpistos> nope
[16:43] <cyberanger> darn
[16:43] <Xpistos> There was an update added yesterday, but this has been going on for a while
[16:58] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: what address are you trying to open when you get that message?
[16:58] <pace_t_zulu> does it not start with http:// or https:// ?
[16:58] <Xpistos> none
[16:59] <Xpistos> If i am on qa page and let it sit for a while I get the error.
[16:59] <Xpistos> or it will just show up when I am doing something
[16:59] <pace_t_zulu> what qa page?
[16:59] <pace_t_zulu> or did you mean on "a" page
[16:59] <Xpistos> could just be a blank ff page
[16:59] <Xpistos> or I could be on google
[17:00] <Xpistos> or our wiki
[17:00] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: i'd suspect an extension
[17:00] <Xpistos> it doesn't matter
[17:00] <Xpistos> Couldnt'be an extention. My new profile doesn't have any
[17:00] <pace_t_zulu> or add on ... or whatever they are calling those things these days
[17:00] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: is firefox your default browser?
[17:00] <Xpistos> no
[17:05] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: windows?
[17:06] <Xpistos> oh yeah
[17:06] <Xpistos> if it was linux I wouldn't be having these problems
[17:06] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: i think the address is a file on your C drive
[17:06] <pace_t_zulu> that's why "protocol (c)" is in the message
[17:08] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: do you have a page open that is being served up by 'localhost'?
[17:08] <Xpistos> no
[17:10] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: does it happen seemingly randomly - relative to where you are browsing ... ie: it doesn't matter what page you are on?
[17:11] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: and no other firefox windows are open, minimized or hidden?
[17:11] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: which version of windows and which version of firefox
[17:11] <Xpistos> random, open or closed, windows
[17:12] <Xpistos> 7 and FF 4
[17:12] <pace_t_zulu> k
[17:14] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: have you fired up the error console?
[17:15] <Xpistos> nope not sure how or what I am looking for
[17:15] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: i think that's where you want to be
[17:17] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: you opened it up yet?
[17:17] <Xpistos> one sec
[17:18] <Xpistos> okay I set the erroconsole to true
[17:18] <Xpistos> and restarted the browswer, not do I just wait?
[17:19] <Xpistos> I mean now do I just wait?
[17:20] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: if you've received any of those messages since the current instance is running - they messages should be there
[17:21] <Xpistos> okay I haven't yet, but If I want like an hour I am sure one will pop up
[17:21] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: let us know when you see the next one
[17:22] <pace_t_zulu> you should see more information regarding what address it was trying to open
[17:22] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: sound like a plan?
[18:03] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: sounds like I need to make a plan to catch up first
[18:05] <cyberanger> pace_t_zulu: shouldn't be 'c drive' though (type in c: however and it might be) since it'd redirect to file://c:/
[18:06] <cyberanger> but it sounds like a good way to get more info
[19:30] <Xpistos> back
[19:30] <Xpistos> still o messages
[20:15] <pace_t_zulu> cyberanger: incorrect syntax could trick firefox into believing a reference to the c drive is actually a protocol
[21:02] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: still nothing?
[21:02] <Xpistos> nope
[21:02] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: want to give it a shot on your old dirty profile?
[21:02] <Xpistos> sure.
[21:03] <Xpistos> and let's see what happens
[21:04] <pace_t_zulu> yea, just try to do something you would have been doing when the error pops up
[21:41] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: any errors yet?
[21:42] <Xpistos> nope
[21:43] <pace_t_zulu> Xpistos: so it isn't a major problem then... more of a minor annoyance
[21:45] <Xpistos> ye
[21:45] <Xpistos> p
[21:45] <Xpistos> pers
[21:45] <Xpistos> cyberanger: got some time for this sshfs/rsync deal?


[06:08] <knome> ok, so i might have time to do the wallpaper today...
[21:04] <ochosi> knome: got anywhere with it already?
[21:04] <ochosi> ("it" being the wallpaper)
[23:38] <bluesabre> Happy to see we have some testers for the beta
[23:39] <bluesabre> I'm going to do a spot check myself, then mark complete if it looks sane


[00:12] <RAOF> bjsnider: I don't have a grub 2 timeout at all, and this is a default install.  It's occasionally annoying.
[00:29] <Sarvatt> yeah its only shown by default if you have more than one OS
[00:30] <RAOF> And if it's not shown, then there's no timeout.
[01:37] <bjsnider> that's not what happened when i clean installed lucid
[01:39] <bjsnider> RAOF, the setting is in /etc/default/grub, if you want to change it
[01:39] <RAOF> bjsnider: Oh, I know.  It's not *that* annoying.
[01:42] <bjsnider> just had a long chat with the gnome developers. there's a lot of acrimony between them and canonical. gnome-shell and unity appear almost the same in terms of look and feel, and even the underlying code. and i am not sure why two groups are working on desktop shells that are so imilar
[01:46] <RAOF> Although I haven't brosed it recently, I don't think the underlying code is particularly similar, outside of the architecture of “desktop-shell in mutter plugin”.
[01:47] <bjsnider> RAOF, you know what unity currently looks like, right?
[01:47] <RAOF> Yes, I do indeed.
[01:47] <bjsnider> i was just looking at the screenshots in ryan paul's article on ars today, that's how i know
[01:48] <bjsnider> here's the latest gnome-shell mockup:
[01:48] <bjsnider> http://blogs.gnome.org/fmuellner/files/2010/10/Pantallazo.png
[01:49] <RAOF> I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing there.
[01:50] <bjsnider> that's gnome-shell with a few open windows in a desktop in overview
[01:50] <bjsnider> libv, i see there's been a lot of openchrome development recently
[01:51] <bjsnider> "There hasn't even been any activity on the openchrome-devel mailing list since April of this year, which according to VIA is their "best friend" and where they plan to host much of this development work."
[11:34] <lordofthenoobs> anybody out there?
[11:34] <tjaalton> the truth is
[11:36] <lordofthenoobs> the truth cant hold a good conversation though on account it has no fingers to type
[11:44] <tjaalton> huh, no sense of humour..
[12:25] <tseliot> tjaalton: I guess some people forgot about the X-Files ;)
[12:26] <tjaalton> tseliot: or were born not-too-long-ago ;)
[12:27] <tseliot> tjaalton: ouch, that makes me feel old now... :P
[12:27] <tjaalton> yeah, join the crowd..
[12:28] <tseliot> :D
[12:32] <nigelb> X-files? what? where?
[12:40] <tseliot> nice try ;)
[12:46] <tjaalton> yeah, you have to do better than that :)
[13:39] <libv> bjsnider: http://openchrome.org/trac/timeline
[13:39] <libv> bjsnider: and the litle work that has been done in the last year was not exactly earthshattering
[13:40] <libv> bjsnider: not that i should speak, all i do, now that i do pvr stuff, is pluck unichrome based hw off of ebay. seems i am pretty much the only person still interested in buying any via crap :)
[13:50] <bjsnider> libv, i think "via" and "crap" are synonymous
[13:52] <ScottK> There's a recommendation in a Debian bug to use "ServerArgsLocal=vt7 -br -nolisten tcp" with KDM instead of "ServerArgsLocal=vt7 -nr -nolisten tcp".  Man X doesn't cover -nr or -br.  Where whould I find these options documented?
[13:52]  * ScottK would like to understand it and see if it might be related to a bug with similar symptoms I'm seeing in Kubuntu.
[13:57] <jcristau> ScottK: Xserver(1) iirc
[13:57] <ScottK> jcristau: Thanks.
[13:59] <jcristau> -nr doesn't exist upstream or in debian
[14:02] <jcristau> and it seems the ubuntu (well, fedora) patch adding it doesn't have a manpage bit
[14:03] <ScottK> Lovely.
[14:03]  * ScottK wonders what it does.
[14:04] <jcristau> +    ErrorF("-nr                    create root window with no background\n");
[14:05] <ScottK> Thanks.
[14:27] <Sarvatt> ScottK: thats for the seamless plymouth-X transition, a bit more description of it here<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[14:27] <ScottK> Sarvatt: Thanks.
[14:33] <Sarvatt> slackware 14 without that is hitting the same problem without any of the copyfb stuff - http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/slackware-14/call-for-testing-xorg-updates-20100830-a-829336/page8.html#post4115059
[14:42] <Sarvatt> ScottK: any reason why you dont just make TerminateServer=true the default so it doesn't rely on server regen for logout while its getting tracked down? this seems to be a recurring problem
[14:42] <jcristau> +1
[14:43] <jcristau> i've suggested that to the debian kde people multiple times..
[14:44] <Sarvatt> http://pastebin.com/Hj6SzjP4
[14:57] <ScottK> Sarvatt: I guess it depends on how long it's going to take.
[14:59] <jcristau> regen is always going to be fragile
[14:59] <jcristau> pretty much nobody tests it, it only affects kdm
[15:00] <ScottK> Sarvatt and jcristau: The bug I was looking at was Bug 641712.  I was looking at Debian Bug #586540 and was wondering if there might be some relationship.
[15:00] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 641712 in kdebase-workspace (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Not possible to enter password for a new user in KDM (Maverick) (affects: 2) (heat: 112)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/641712
[15:00] <ubot4`> Debian bug 586540 in kdm "kdm on initial start at kfreebsd bootup does not allow keyboard input" [Serious,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/586540
[15:01] <jcristau> oh, the race with getty
[15:03]  * ScottK would love suggestions.
[15:06] <jcristau> seems weird that it doesn't happen for the first user
[15:11] <ScottK> First user provides the password to the installer, so it doesn't come up.
[16:10] <Sarvatt> jcristau: intel does server regens now too so it's not just isolated to KDM as much anymore :(
[16:10] <Sarvatt> after a gpu hang
[16:11] <jcristau> oh.
[17:26] <bjsnider> Sarvatt, any idea what's going on here: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2335524&postcount=14
[18:50] <vish> Sarvatt¦ re: Bug #652934 , i'v confirmed that the problem is only since 2.6.32-19-generic #28-Ubuntu , how do i proceed? it seems that upstream has /just recently/ merged the patch into mainline too :(
[18:50] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 652934 in xserver-xorg-video-ati (Ubuntu) "[RV515] Guest session causes screen to flicker violently and session is unusable (affects: 2) (heat: 188)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/652934
[21:01] <Sarvatt> bjsnider: they are trying to run jockey-kde as root from a terminal (they need to use sudo jockey-text as their user instead if they want to do it that way), it'll show up fine in the gui once they have nvidia-common installed and reboot like they said they would
[21:03] <Sarvatt> vish: reassigned it to linux, are you saying mainline daily kernels are giving the same behavior now too or you think it will because they merged it?
[21:03] <Sarvatt> if its the former we need to upstream it
[21:05] <vish> Sarvatt¦ my comment about it being 'merged in mainline too', was from reading Alex's comment http://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=26302
[21:05] <ubot4`> Freedesktop bug 26302 in Driver/Radeon "[M7 LW] desktop runs out of video memory on ATI Radeon Mobility 7500" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
[21:05] <vish> Sarvatt¦ i'v now downloaded mainline .36 and am testing with that..
[21:07] <vish> hehe, kernel bug! so need to actively try to test a lot more.. ;)
[21:10]  * vish shakes fist at everyone else filing kernel bugs and overloading lp.. MY BUG IS MORE IMPORTANT! [jus cause i filed it] ;p  <pouts>
[21:11] <Sarvatt> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/git?p=ubuntu/ubuntu-maverick.git;a=commit;h=160ae3be8d42701afc19cf71d6e0d2c0a6160e82
[21:11] <vish> hmm..
[21:12] <vish> yea that one..
[21:47] <Sarvatt> yay CHROMIUM_FLAGS="--disable-accelerated-compositing" in /etc/chromium-browser/default makes scrolling usable again with html5 video
[21:51] <bjsnider> accelerated compositing should be a good thing
[21:52] <Sarvatt> apparently only on windows
[21:58] <Sarvatt> http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=59302 -- funny because I can reproduce it both with intel and the blob :)