[00:13] <chrisccoulson> robert_ancell - so, this crash might be a gconf issue
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> when an application calls gconf_client_add_dir for the first time, there should eventually be a call to CORBA_ORB_init
[00:14] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, right
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> but this never gets called again because it assumes it remains initialized
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> even after shutdown_orb is called
[00:15] <chrisccoulson> in gconf_get_config_listener()
[00:15] <chrisccoulson> thats the interesting bit
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> anyway, i'm going to have to stop looking at this for tonight, else i will never sleep
[00:16] <chrisccoulson> it will take me the whole night just to wind down ;)
[00:16] <robert_ancell> chrisccoulson, sleep on it! :)
[00:17] <chrisccoulson> i should comment on the bug report really, else i will just forget it all by morning ;)
[02:23] <Amaranth> hmm, that seahorse bug sounds like a fun bug compiz used to have with gconf
[06:57] <amin888> i need some help.... i installed nvidia driver NVIDIA-Linux-x86-190.42-pkg1.run manually for GeForce 7300 LE since Hardware Drivers show empty driver... the installation is succefull and i can play 3D game... but i can't have compiz started ???
[06:57] <amin888> btw this is for Ubuntu 9.10
[08:30] <pitti> Good morning
[08:34] <didrocks> good morning pitti
[08:36] <pitti> hey didrocks
[08:39] <mpt> mvo, good morning. Should software-center trunk still work on 9.10?
[08:42] <mvo> mpt: yes
[08:43] <mvo> mpt: is it not for you?
[08:43] <mpt> mvo, no, I get "NameError: global name 'os' is not defined" whenever navigating to an application screen
[08:43] <mpt> File "/home/mpt/hacking/software-center/softwarecenter/distro/aptutils.py", line 36, in get_release_date_from_release_file
[08:43] <mvo> mpt: oh, give me a sec
[08:43] <mvo> mpt: I fix that
[08:45] <mvo> mpt: r420
[08:46] <mpt> mvo, that's changed the error: it's now "NameError: global name 'datetime' is not defined"
[08:47] <mpt> mvo, File "/home/mpt/hacking/software-center/softwarecenter/distro/Ubuntu.py", line 122, in get_maintenance_status
[08:48] <mvo> mpt: heh :) let me switch to a karmic machine to test
[08:48] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:49] <mpt> mvo, on another topic, I don't see a 1.0 branch on the Branches page. Should there be one? Or is lp:ubuntu/karmic/software-center enough for that?
[08:49] <mvo> mpt: the karmic branch is the 1.0 branch, we can create a explicit name if you prefer that
[08:50] <chrisccoulson> good morning seb128
[08:50] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, how are you?
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> good thanks - it's nearly the weekend :)
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[08:51] <mpt> mvo, I don't mind, just as long as there's somewhere to apply critical 1.0.x fixes if there are any (and to turn on the angled path button by default, perhaps)
[08:51]  * seb128 wonder if chrisccoulson ever sleep, he's up after everybody and already there in the morning too
[08:51]  * seb128 wonder if chrisccoulson ever sleep, he's up after everybody and already there in the morning too
[08:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good thank you
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> heh, i don't sleep very much ;)
[08:51] <chrisccoulson> although i have been to bed before 2am several times recently
[08:53] <mvo> mpt: please try r421
[08:54] <mpt> mvo, that works, thanks :-)
[08:55] <seb128> "Launchpad will be going offline for maintenance in five minutes. "
[08:55] <seb128> urg
[08:55] <mvo> mpt: is this  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=1.0-available-category.jpg still desired? or will that change again for 2.0 ? otherwise I give it a short at implementing it now
[08:55]  * mvo wants something more exciting than bug triage
[08:56] <seb128> mvo, launchpad is going down so you will be forced into it ;-)
[08:57] <seb128> mvo, there is plenty of merges and updates too
[08:58] <mpt> mvo, I'd give that a 60% probability, though I need to discuss the layout with ivanka
[08:58] <mpt> mvo, there are other things that are both more certain and probably more exciting :-)
[08:58] <mvo> mpt: what do you have in mind ?
[08:58] <mvo> mpt: for 60% I won't start
[08:59] <mpt> fair enough -- one moment
[08:59] <pitti> seb128: FYI, versions.py failed over night (for some mystical reason index/lucid/var was removed completely)
[08:59] <pitti> running now
[09:00] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:00] <seb128> ok thanks
[09:00] <seb128> grrrr at robert_ancell
[09:00] <seb128> hard to make him things he has not interest in
[09:01] <seb128> he started full steam on 2.29 but doesn't seem to care about merging on debian
[09:01] <seb128> let's wait for him to join tonight ;-)
[09:02] <mpt> mvo, there's this <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#cancel-bar>
[09:02] <mvo> you promisied "more exciting"
[09:02] <mpt> mvo, or this <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Handling%20an%20externally-changed%20apt%20cache>
[09:02] <mpt> oh, foo
[09:03] <mpt> The intersection of {more exciting} and {fully specified} is mainly Clutter animations
[09:03] <mpt> at the moment
 and <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter#Animation%20of%20the%20main%20pane>
[09:04] <mvo> mpt: is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareCenter?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=1.0-installed-home.jpg (as a treeview) still the plan?
[09:05] <mvo> mpt: what will it do when packages are activated? still a treeview?
[09:06] <mpt> mvo, that's subject to the same 60% certainty -- if we change how we present departments, the "Installed Software" section will change to look much more similar to the "Get Software" section
[09:06] <mvo> mpt: ok
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> was there an announcement for LP going offline?
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> (or perhaps it just got lost in my inbox)
[09:17] <seb128> I didn't read one
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> i can't find one either
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> it seems we never get announcements any more
[09:41] <huats> morning
[09:42] <seb128> lut huats
[09:43] <huats> hello seb128 !
[09:44] <seb128> cassidy, hey
[09:44] <seb128> cassidy, should we sync telepathy-gabble 0.9.2 in lucid?
[09:45] <seb128> ie is that the right version for this cycle?
[09:45] <cassidy> seb128, this version still have regressions comparing to the 0.8.x branch but hopefully that should be fixed for the Lucid release
[09:46] <seb128> hum
[09:46] <seb128> seems a "no" ;-)
[09:46] <seb128> thanks
[09:46] <cassidy> and we'll probably use new feature from this version in Emapthy 2.30 so I'd say to go for it
[09:46] <seb128> well
[09:46] <cassidy> tbh, the main regression is the proxy support which has always be broken so...
[09:46] <seb128> "should be fixed" is not good for a lts
[09:46] <cassidy> oh, LTS, right
[09:46] <seb128> we need to aim for something which will be stable by lucid time
[09:46] <seb128> not something which might be in the middle of unstable serie
[09:47] <cassidy> you can keep 0.8 for now and I'll let you know when we think 0.9 is good enough to replace it
[09:47] <seb128> thanks
[09:47] <cassidy> 0.8.x is still well maintained as that's the version shipped with Maemo 5
[10:08] <seb128> cassidy, is empathy supposed to unhide the list on the same workspace it was?
[10:08] <seb128> or on the current workspace?
[10:09] <seb128> when you click on the notification area icon
[10:09] <seb128> using compiz
[10:09] <cassidy> ahah, good question. IIRC we uses gtk_window_present() whose behaviour is unclear
[10:09] <seb128> if that makes a different
[10:09] <cassidy> and depends of your WM
[10:09] <seb128> ok
[10:09] <cassidy> (I know that sucks)
[10:10] <seb128> dunno what pidgin do but that works
[10:10] <seb128> it open the list on the workspace where you are
[10:10] <seb128> the empathy behaviour is driving me crazy
[10:10] <seb128> I work on several workspace and the list never opens where I'm working
[10:10] <cassidy> we have lot of troubles with that; seems lot of WM are broken
[10:10] <Zdra> seb128, I really want some WM guru to take a look
[10:10] <cassidy> seb128, do you have that in house? :)
[10:10] <Zdra> seb128, because IMO it is *all* WM that are broken
[10:11] <Zdra> and each version is broken in a different way
[10:11] <cassidy> I just tried and the contact list appear on the active desktop
[10:11] <cassidy> (metacity)
[10:11] <seb128> the best wm guru we have there is Amaranth
[10:11] <Zdra> rb/pidgin does ugly hacks to position the window
[10:11] <seb128> dunno what hack they do but that works mostly
[10:11] <seb128> you could maybe copy some of those
[10:11] <cassidy> seb128, some help on this issue would be really appreciated
[10:11] <seb128> alright
[10:11] <Zdra> seb128, they reposition manually the window on the desktop and the position/size
[10:11] <seb128> noting that for sprint and UDS
[10:11] <Zdra> which should be useless
[10:12] <seb128> but we don't have wm gurus either
[10:12] <cassidy> we'd prefer to have the bugged code fixed properly (in Empathy, WM, ...) than adding more hack
[10:12] <seb128> that's not going to happen though
[10:12] <cassidy> afaik it works fine with metacity
[10:12] <Zdra> cassidy, that's what I keep saying for years... but really that need WM guru to look into. I don't know enough how it works
[10:13] <seb128> it's an user story fail for empathy meanwhile
[10:13] <Zdra> I'm prepared to be told empathy is doing something wrong, but I would like to know the real reasons, not just pull hacks to make it work by hiding the real defect
[10:13] <seb128> cassidy, the issue is that as you said the gtk function behaviour is not defined
[10:13] <seb128> and the gtk issue is open for years
[10:13] <cassidy> we already tried different hack and they always fix one case and broke others
[10:13] <seb128> I appreciate you don't want to have hacks but meanwhile your software look buggy compared to others
[10:14] <Zdra> tbh I almost never had any problem using ubuntu with metacity and its compositor
[10:14] <seb128> Zdra, the main issue is that the gtk call behaviour is not defined
[10:14] <Zdra> but other users report problems even in the exact same configuration... that's crazy
[10:14] <seb128> ie should present bring you to the dialog, bring the dialog to you or just raise it
[10:15] <seb128> it's let to the wm to decide right now
[10:15] <seb128> so with some wm you will get the dialog on your workspace
[10:15] <seb128> some others will change the active workspace
[10:15] <seb128> some others will make it claim for attention in the taskbar
[10:16] <Zdra> seb128, the biggest problem reported by users is that the window position is reset to left/top corner after unhide the window
[10:16] <seb128> there is that issue
[10:16] <Zdra> seb128, and that is not supposed to be WM-dependent, the position really should be remembered
[10:17] <seb128> and the fact that using compiz it doesn't show it on the right workspace
[10:17] <seb128> I will put it on the lucid list of issues so we look at it
[10:17] <Zdra> seb128, for the move to desktop, give focus, etc, I can understand empathy should do it, because it is not guaranteed by gtk_window_present
[10:17] <seb128> but I think you will have to workaround in empathy
[10:17] <seb128> the gtk behaviour not being defined is the issue
[10:17] <seb128> and it will require spec changes and gtk changes
[10:17] <seb128> which I doubt will happen quickly
[10:17] <cassidy> Zdra, did we try to use the same hacks as rb ?
[10:18] <Zdra> cassidy, no
[10:18] <Zdra> cassidy, I saw it and told "I don't want to be responsible of such a hack"
[10:18] <cassidy> maybe that's something we should try
[10:18] <seb128> let's be pragmatic in some case hacks are required to make the user experience good
[10:19] <cassidy> yeah :(
[10:19] <Zdra> IIRC other app does gtk_window_hide() gtk_window_show() instead of gtk_window_present() to be sure it is forced to be moved to current ws
[10:19] <seb128> I will try to see what we can do for a proper fix there
[10:19] <seb128> but as said if that require xdg spec changes and gtk changes it will take a while
[10:19] <seb128> so meanwhile we will want to workaround
[10:20] <seb128> Zdra, seems to be a good way if that works
[10:20] <Zdra> seb128, tbh the whole concept of window hiding in the status icon is not well supported in GNOME
[10:20] <Zdra> seb128, note that even rb is not unbreakable, I already had window possition issues with it ;)
[10:21] <Zdra> I think the best hack is in piding
[10:21] <Zdra> pidgin
[10:21] <Zdra> best in the sense of works the best, not the nicer
[10:23] <seb128> right
[10:23] <seb128> as said pidgin seems to work fine for users
[10:23] <seb128> ie we get no complain about it
[11:44] <seb128> Laney, hey
[11:44] <seb128> Laney, do you want to sru the new f-spot update?
[11:45] <seb128> to sru = to work on the sru changes
[11:56] <Laney> seb128: yeah, maybe tomorrow
[11:56] <seb128> Laney, ok thanks
[12:28] <pitti> chrisccoulson: would you have some time for another SRU? (bug 463353)
[12:29] <pitti> sorry for delegating, SRU management and UDS planning pretty much eat all my time these days
[12:29] <pitti> or seb128?
[12:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i can take a look at that
[12:29] <chrisccoulson> do you want to assign it to me? (i'm just about to go for lunch)
[12:30] <seb128> pitti, I will let chrisccoulson look at this one, I have only today left as work day before sprint and uds
[12:30] <pitti> chrisccoulson: thanks muchly; will do
[12:38] <mvo> asac: around?
[12:39] <seb128> mvo, he's on vac for the week
[12:40] <mvo> *pff*
[12:40] <mvo> seb128: thanks :)
[12:40] <seb128> mvo, you're welcome
[12:40] <seb128> mvo, what you mean by *pff* is *slacker* right? ;-)
[12:40] <mvo> seb128: I just wanted his feedback on the "XB-Restart-Required idea
[12:40] <mvo> seb128: yeah
[12:40] <mvo> :P
[12:40] <seb128> what is that?
[12:41] <seb128> oh
[12:41] <seb128> you want to be able to know in advance what will need a restart
[12:41]  * seb128 switches channel for the discussion
[15:04] <seb128> urg
[15:06] <seb128> pitti, there is 2181 i386 crash bug in the retracer queue
[15:06]  * seb128 look to the amd64 one
[15:06] <rickspencer3> bonjour seb128 what's the matter?
[15:06] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[15:06] <seb128> rickspencer3, just 2181 crash bugs in launchpad which have not been retraced yet
[15:07] <seb128> on i386
[15:07] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - they're not all seahorse-agent crashes are they?
[15:07] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[15:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, could be, we will know when they will be retraced...
[15:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, still looking for bugs?
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i don't think we're going to get away without fixing the seahorse-agent crash - the crash reports are still flying in quite quickly even with apport disabled by default
[15:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you have any bugs in mind?
[15:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #442130
[15:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we should add a bug pattern for the seahorse crash
[15:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that would block bug filing pointing to the open bug
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be a good idea
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll take a look at that gvfs one later as well then
[15:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[15:10] <seb128> 892 amd64 crash bugs to retrace
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - are you not here next week?
[15:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I will be traveling on monday and then be on us time
[15:10] <seb128> and sprinting
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[15:11] <seb128> I will probably be there but on different hours
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> it's going to be quiet in here next week
[15:11] <seb128> and not as much as I usually do
[15:12] <chrisccoulson> i'll probably have a baby by the time you arrive back from the US. when she decides that she wants to arrive!
[15:13] <seb128> oh right
[15:13] <seb128> you are going to have short nights for other reasons soon ;-)
[15:13] <seb128> you are going to have short nights for other reasons soon ;-)
[15:13] <seb128> ups
[15:13] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson, when we stop seeing you everyday, we will assume the baby came :)
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> i think i should just forget about sleep entirely!
[15:14] <kenvandine> sleep is overrated
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> that's what i keep telling people ;)
[15:14] <chrisccoulson> but sometimes i feel like i could sleep at work
[15:15] <chrisccoulson> probably not the best place to fall asleep ;)
[15:15] <kenvandine> hehe
[15:15]  * kenvandine was replacing the brakes on my car at midnight last night... i would rather have been sleeping... but if i am hacking on stuff i would prefer that to sleep :)
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine - i take it you have a source of light to be able to work on your car that late at night?
[15:18] <chrisccoulson> i can't do anything to mine at the moment, as it's dark when i get back from work
[15:20] <kenvandine> garage
[15:21] <kenvandine> i need a bright portable light though
[15:21] <kenvandine> the overhead lights aren't great for working under fenders :)
[15:21]  * kenvandine has some busted up knuckles today from not being able to see well
[16:11] <pitti> seb128: ugh
[16:11] <pitti> seb128: does it keep breaking on the same bug, or does it make progress?
[16:11] <seb128> pitti, it makes progress
[16:11] <seb128> pitti, retraced 50 bugs between the 2 recent restart
[16:12] <pitti> ok, and today's crashes were due to the LP rollout, I guess
[16:12] <seb128> I'm suprised we keep getting so many crash bugs
[16:12] <seb128> is apport still on in karmic?
[16:13] <seb128> pitti, they crash every hour
[16:13] <seb128> gateway errors
[16:13] <seb128> or permission errors
[16:20] <Laney> seb128: what's the bug # for the unclickable button in --view mode?
[16:23] <seb128> Laney, bug #448162
[16:23] <Laney> thanks
[16:23] <Laney> testbuilding
[16:24] <seb128> thank you
[16:48] <pitti> rickspencer3: do you know whom to subscribe to a bug report about "Add Service Tag and support URL in System Monitor"?
[16:48] <pitti> rickspencer3: (someone from OEM?)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> yes, bfox
[16:49] <pitti> thanks
[16:50] <Amaranth> eep I'm subscribed to a blueprint for a UDS session
[16:50] <pitti> Amaranth: I just subscribed you, yes
[16:50] <Amaranth> I'm not going to be there :P
[16:50] <pitti> thought you were interested in following/commenting on the blueprint
[16:50] <Amaranth> sure
[16:51] <Amaranth> cube by default == no way :)
[16:51] <seb128> what blueprint?
[16:51] <pitti> Amaranth: if you aren't, please unsubscribe again and accept my apology about the spam
[16:51] <seb128> oh, set of effects to use
[16:51] <pitti> Amaranth: see, that's why I subscribe you :)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> cube by default == yea baby
[16:51] <rickspencer3> also, flaming cursor
[16:51] <pitti> rickspencer3: it looks ridiculous on slower hw, though
[16:51] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: we'd have to switch to 4 workspaces by default too
[16:51] <seb128> pitti, don't fall into the troll
[16:51] <Amaranth> hehe
[16:51] <pitti> see, the subscription was useful :)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> thanks seb128
[16:52] <seb128> ;-)
[16:52]  * pitti ignores the flamewar^Wbikeshed^Wdiscussion and goes on with planning
[16:52] <Amaranth> There are some things we should change though...
[16:52] <Amaranth> for example, the video plugin is completely useless
[16:52] <rickspencer3> I thought the "flaming cursor" part was a bit of give away
[16:52] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: I liked that part
[16:52] <rickspencer3> Amaranth, anything we can remove to speed up load time?
[16:53] <Amaranth> rickspencer3: You can test my branch to speed up load time and see if that helps :)
[16:53] <rickspencer3> sweet
[16:53] <rickspencer3> tbh, I would like to turn on the cube if possible
[16:53] <rickspencer3> but sounds like there will be some serious issue
[16:53] <Amaranth> otherwise if we strip plugins we consider worthless it could help a little too
[16:53] <Amaranth> less for it try to find
[16:53] <rickspencer3> but when I show the cube, it gets people really interested
[16:53] <seb128> would it make a difference to put everything now on by default in an -extra binary
[16:53] <seb128> and have that not installed?
[16:54] <seb128> now -> not
[16:54] <rickspencer3> maybe add Cube to the High Level of effects option?
[16:54] <Amaranth> seb128: it could help a little
[16:54] <seb128> Amaranth, a little only? what is all the time spent?
[16:54] <Amaranth> seb128: it'd at least make people not enable cracktastic things without thinking
[16:54] <seb128> compiz takes 10s if there is nothing to read too?
[16:54] <Amaranth> seb128: well most of the time seems to have been spent in that shell script...
[16:55] <Amaranth> otherwise it only loads information for plugins it has loaded
[16:55] <seb128> ok, let's see how it goes with your version first
[16:55] <Amaranth> so not shipping a plugin would save a stat call or whatever
[16:55] <Amaranth> on the other hand the ccp plugin loads information for every single plugin
[16:55] <seb128> it's weird that a piece of shell takes 15 seconds to run
[16:56] <Amaranth> but it uses protobuf so it's pretty fast and there isn't as much IO
[16:56] <Amaranth> compiz itself uses DOM + XPath to load XML for the plugins that are loaded
[16:57] <Amaranth> robert_ancell seems to have added something to compiz to tell what part is taking the most time, he might have a better idea of where any potential bottleneck actually is
[16:57] <Amaranth> at least it loads faster than gnome-shell ;)
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> gconf is a bottleneck on my desktop
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> 4 seconds
[17:00] <Amaranth> yeah, that'd be ccp
[17:00] <Amaranth> so not shipping as many plugins would help some there
[17:00] <Amaranth> since ccp loads the info for all of them
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> oh, i meant gconfd starting is the bottleneck on mine
[17:00] <Amaranth> oh :)
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> this is before compiz starts
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> wow, i wish my company would spend some money on some decent laptops
[17:17] <Riddell> pitti, dpm: we have https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-lucid-kubuntu-translations-feedback-and-improvements and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-kubuntu-translations  I propose to replace them with kubuntu-lucid-translations
[17:18] <mvo> Amaranth: I did a profiling patch some tme ago for compiz, should be in bzr
[17:18] <Amaranth> mvo: oh, that was you
[17:19] <Riddell> asac: can we have a kubuntu firefox session to look at the KDE firefox integration bits?
[17:21] <dpm> Riddell, that's fine by me, but I'd like to be able to add info to the spec, at least move the summary in the community blueprint to the desktop one
[17:22] <pitti> Riddell: WFM; I didn't really put a lot of meat into it, so we can just invalidate it
[17:23] <dpm> Riddell, also, the <track>-lucid- name I think should be kept for consistency with other sessions on the Desktop track
[17:23] <Laney> seb128: I added SRU stuff and opened a Karmic task on bug 448162. We'll get it to Lucid by a sync.
[17:23] <Riddell> dpm: I'm planning on using kubuntu-lucid for all our kubuntu ones, I have scheduling powers now I'm told so we're partly a track to ourselves
[17:24] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[17:24] <pitti> Riddell: done
[17:24] <dpm> Riddell, ahaaa, then feel free to use the superpowers and move it to the Kubuntu track
[17:24] <Laney> thank you for triaging and chasing
[17:24] <Riddell> pitti: what have you done?
[17:25] <pitti> Riddell: marking desktop-lucid-kubuntu-translations as superseded by community-lucid-kubuntu-translations-feedback-and-improvements ?
[17:26] <Riddell> pitti: I wanted to make a kubuntu-lucid-translations the superseed them both
[17:26] <pitti> Riddell: ah, there's a third one; sure, please go ahead
[17:26] <Riddell> there will be
[17:28] <pitti> you can also just rename the existing one, FYI
[17:28] <pitti> Riddell: ^
[17:28] <pitti> (if everything else in it is correct, that's easier)
[17:29] <Riddell> so I can, that's clever
[18:00] <dpm> pitti, ccheney` I was thinking about having a dedicated session on OO.o translations, but seeing that there is https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-openoffice already, do you think it might be a better idea to discuss translations in there as well instead?
[18:31] <mac_v> djsiegel: ping... sent the mail.. sorry, for sending it late ... i forgot about it :(
[18:31] <djsiegel> oh, thanks mac_V!
[18:31] <djsiegel> n
[18:31] <djsiegel> np
[18:33] <mac_v> :)
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i'm really confused about how screensaver inhibiting works at all in totem
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> it calls Inhibit on the wrong dbus path
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> :-/
[19:11] <pitti> chrisccoulson: perhaps that's the s3kr1t bus that works :)
[19:37] <mclasen> chrisccoulson: if you look at gnome-screensaver, it actually registers an object at that path
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - sorry, i went away
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> my gnome-screensaver only registers a path at "/"
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> :(
[21:04] <mclasen> the other one doesn't show up in d-feet
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> ah
[21:05] <mclasen> don't know why
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - totem always gives me this warning:
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> WARNING **: Problem inhibiting the screensaver: Method "Inhibit" with signature "ss" on interface "org.gnome.ScreenSaver" doesn't exist
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> but the inhibit is registered
[21:05] <mclasen> oh, interesting
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> and this is why totem isn't cleaning them up properly for me, because it *thinks* it failed to register it, and so doesn't save the cookie
[21:06] <chrisccoulson> i'm a bit confused why i seem to be the only person with this problem though
[21:08] <seb128> did you try with an another user or a guest session?
[21:09] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - one second, i will try that now
[21:12] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that's wierd - it works ok from the guest account
[21:43] <chrisccoulson> well, i'm totally confused!
[21:47] <seb128> Ampelbein, hum, if totem is crashing that's a totem problem ... not true
[21:48] <seb128> ups
[21:48] <seb128> Amaranth, ^
[21:48] <Amaranth> seb128: it's certainly not a compiz problem :)
[21:48] <seb128> Amaranth, and not a totem one either
[21:48] <Amaranth> seb128: totem or one of the libraries it uses (nvidia fail again?)
[21:49] <seb128> I just hate those bugs about video crashing when compiz is on
[21:49] <seb128> nobody wants to take responsability for those
[21:49] <Amaranth> heh
[21:49] <seb128> I would like to know where to reassign it
[21:49] <seb128> totem is wrong but xorg or compiz would bounce back
[21:49] <Amaranth> If it's not a crash in compiz I have no idea
[21:49] <seb128> so we are stucked with useless replies
[21:50] <Amaranth> see if you get can a backtrace from him or something
[21:50] <seb128> I did ask for one
[21:50] <Amaranth> but then again you can't tell with nvidia and X, only with nvidia OpenGL
[21:50] <Amaranth> (if the nvidia driver is the cause, I mean)
[21:50] <seb128> but I guess it will be one of those xerror due to limited video ressources
[21:56] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[21:56] <robert_ancell> seb128, hey
[21:57] <seb128> robert_ancell, thanks for the update, some notes though
[21:57] <robert_ancell> always with the notes :)
[21:57] <seb128> 1, could you please do the merges on debian?
[21:57] <robert_ancell> yeah, I knew you were going to get me on 1
[21:57] <seb128> I know it's no fun
[21:57] <seb128> but it's no fun for your coworkers either
[21:58] <seb128> so let's share those and not just dump the task on others ;-)
[21:58] <robert_ancell> :P
[21:58] <seb128> 2- I'm not sure if we should run into 2.29
[21:58] <robert_ancell> ?
[21:58] <seb128> it's probably fine for the ones you did
[21:59] <seb128> but we should check upstream roadmap
[21:59] <seb128> we don't want to get stucked in the middle of refactoring
[21:59] <seb128> especially that GNOME3 will likely be 2.32
[21:59] <robert_ancell> oh, is that what you've heard?
[21:59] <seb128> and some maintainer can decide to skip 2.30 or have it an unstable version toward GNOME 2.32
[22:00] <seb128> well, since the gnome-shell guys mailed d-d-l saying gnome-shell will not be ready before 2.32
[22:00] <Amaranth> seb128: plus if GSettings makes it we probably don't want to try to transition to that in lucid
[22:00] <seb128> ie will only be a tech preview version this cycle
[22:00] <seb128> Amaranth, no
[22:01] <seb128> things I'm not sure we should change count glib and gtk
[22:01] <seb128> I know it's not going to be popular
[22:01] <seb128> but I'm not sure it's the right cycle to get gvariant, dconf, etc early changes
[22:01] <Amaranth> so I would stay away from everything GNOME that uses gconf until the decision for gsettings/dconf is made
[22:01] <robert_ancell> Amaranth, i.e.  every package?
[22:01] <Amaranth> robert_ancell: yeah, pretty much
[22:01] <seb128> Amaranth, dconf you mean there no?
[22:02] <Amaranth> seb128: eh? I said dconf
[22:02] <seb128> I didn't get why staying away from apps using gconf
[22:02] <seb128> in case they migrate mid cycle you mean?
[22:03] <Amaranth> right
[22:03] <Amaranth> If you upload 2.29.1 now then 2.29.2 switches to gsettings...
[22:03] <seb128> that's a good point
[22:03] <seb128> I doubt dconf will be ready this cycle though
[22:03] <seb128> they are still discussing migration strategies
[22:04] <seb128> they will probably land the glib, etc changes required
[22:04] <seb128> and have dconf working and ready to be used
[22:04] <seb128> but I doubt many applications will switch
[22:04] <seb128> some might experiment
[22:04] <seb128> but there is a need to solve to migration issue before
[22:04] <seb128> desrt will be at uds
[22:05] <seb128> robert_ancell, I would suggest we are careful on 2.29 until uds
[22:05] <Amaranth> From the way the conversation seemed to be going the migration plan was "migrate wallpaper and such and toss the rest"
[22:05] <seb128> that is the opinion from some people
[22:05] <seb128> I don't see that work for distros
[22:05] <robert_ancell> seb128, right.  Is it worth queueing them up anyway?
[22:06] <seb128> robert_ancell, it's fine doing selected ones I think
[22:06] <seb128> like evince, eog you did, it's easy to roll an application back
[22:06] <robert_ancell> seb128, in the archive?>
[22:07] <seb128> yes
[22:07] <seb128> upload 2.28 as 2.29.is.2.28
[22:07] <Amaranth> 2.29.1+really2.28.2-0ubuntu1 :(
[22:07] <robert_ancell> seb128, then lets be optimistic and say "no applications are going to cause a problem" then roll back any that are
[22:07] <seb128> it's not nice looking but works
[22:07] <seb128> robert_ancell, right
[22:07] <seb128> things I would be careful about nautilus, gnome-panel
[22:08] <seb128> things I would be careful about nautilus, gnome-panel
[22:08] <seb128> urg
[22:08] <seb128> + I'm not sure about glib, gtk
[22:08] <Amaranth> gnome-panel, really?
[22:08] <seb128> I want to discuss that at uds
[22:08] <seb128> Amaranth, we got stucked in the gvfs transition in hardy due to those
[22:09] <Amaranth> sure but I don't think anyone is doing _anything_ with gnome-panel anymore
[22:09] <Amaranth> since it's going away and all
[22:09] <seb128> it's the sort of code which interact with other components
[22:09] <seb128> well; not in 2.30
[22:09] <seb128> but right
[22:09] <seb128> I'm not sure about the evo stack too
[22:10] <seb128> they are switching to dbus and gtk rather than bonoboui
[22:10] <Amaranth> the kill-bonobo branch landed, didn't it?
[22:10] <Amaranth> right
[22:10] <seb128> it's good but it's a lot of refactoring
[22:10] <seb128> and I'm not sure if it will reach stability for lucid
[22:10] <seb128> since we have to keep bonobo anyway
[22:10] <Amaranth> let's shove compiz 0.9 in there ;)
[22:10] <seb128> gnome-panel; gconf, etc ...
[22:11] <seb128> robert_ancell, well small example or refactoring is gcalctool
[22:11] <seb128> you said you would take the opportunity of GNOME3 for that no?
[22:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, it's got a new UI but the changes are incremental
[22:12] <seb128> ok
[22:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, anyway I will let you judge what you consider risky or not
[22:12] <seb128> I might disagree on something and not sponsor it
[22:13] <robert_ancell> mwuhahaha
[22:13] <seb128> but if you feel something should be fine for the lts do the update
[22:13] <robert_ancell> ok
[22:13] <seb128> let's wait for glib, gtk though
[22:13] <seb128> I'm not sure when gtk 2.20 is scheduled
[22:13] <seb128> we need to check that before shipping 2.19
[22:14] <TheMuso> Greetings all.
[22:14]  * TheMuso will help with GNOME merge stuff once he has the audio stack updated.
[22:15] <seb128> hey TheMuso, thanks
[22:15] <seb128> robert_ancell, btw I will fix eog build now
[22:16] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, haven't read email yet. problem?
[22:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, gnome bug #600706
[22:17] <seb128> robert_ancell, the same issue
[22:18] <seb128> robert_ancell, recent python version break that, it's not meant to be used this way
[23:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i figured out my inhibit issue :)
[23:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh?
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> the hamster-applet is snooping on the org.gnome.ScreenSaver messages, but not handling them correctly
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> which makes dbus return an error, even though gnome-screensaver inhibits correctly
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> if i get rid of the hamster-applet, it all works correctly!
[23:21] <chrisccoulson> that was a wierd one to figure out
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> but because dbus returns an error, rather than the inhibit cookie, totem cannot remove the inhibit when it closes ;)
[23:22] <seb128> good catch, how did you figure that?
[23:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just started randomly killing things in my session
[23:24] <seb128> ok
[23:25] <chrisccoulson> i took the "scientific" approach ;)
[23:26] <seb128> yeah
[23:26] <seb128> I would probably have started to look into user config
[23:26] <seb128> and start stracing things
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i was starting to get to that stage, but then i noticed when i was using dbus-send, that the call was returning before gnome-screensaver had handled it (and i knew this, because i had gnome-screensaver interrupted in GDB when i ran dbus-send)
[23:29] <seb128> in any case good catch
[23:29] <chrisccoulson> i need to try and figure out what hamster-applet is doing wrong now
[23:47] <seb128> good night everybody
[23:57] <chrisccoulson> 'night seb128
[23:58] <seb128> night chrisccoulson!


[03:09] <ArcticChill360> hi
[03:10] <ArcticChill360> well i take it no one is here......
[03:11] <ArcticChill360> ok good bye.......
[04:19] <ChinnoDog> @later tell ArcticChill360 It usually takes longer than 3 minutes to get our attention.
[04:19] <PennBot> ChinnoDog: The operation succeeded.
[07:31] <InHisName> attention anyone awake yet / still ?
[10:10] <JonathanD> Good Morning Pennsylvania.
[10:34] <rmg51> Good Morning JonathanD
[10:35] <JonathanD> howdy rmg51
[10:35] <JonathanD> Looks pretty chilly out.
[10:36] <rmg51> o/
[10:36] <rmg51> with rain a good bet
[10:37] <JonathanD> Hmmm
[10:37] <JonathanD> I wanted to run.
[10:38] <rmg51> run between the rain drops ;-)
[10:45] <JonathanD> haha :P
[10:45] <JonathanD> it's not raining yet, I may still go
[10:46] <JonathanD> It's just a bit chilly for my tastes :p
[10:54] <rmg51> that's what sweatshirts are for
[10:55] <JonathanD> I should get one of those.
[10:56] <rmg51> or a jacket
[10:56] <JonathanD> and sweatpants, or something.
[10:56] <JonathanD> would be good.
[10:58] <rmg51> longjohns for the really cold days
[10:58] <JonathanD> I don't usually run outdoors on the really cold days :p
[10:59] <JonathanD> If it's cold enough I'll just climb stairs at the office.
[10:59] <JonathanD> I have no tolerance for cold whatsoever :P
[10:59] <rmg51> wimp
[10:59] <JonathanD> The gym teacher made us run in the cold, I'm done with that now ;)
[10:59] <rmg51> if it's raining or snowing I'll stay in
[11:00] <rmg51> cold never stopped me
[11:00] <rmg51> just means more layers
[11:00] <JonathanD> Once I get my bike (and if it's servicable) I believe I'll start riding to work fridays.
[11:00] <JonathanD> rmg51: I could maybe live with that. Maybe.
[11:01] <JonathanD> I've never been very happy running in jeans though.
[11:01] <JonathanD> Perhaps I just need better clothes for it.
[11:01] <rmg51> sweats for me
[11:01] <JonathanD> yeah.
[11:01] <JonathanD> jeans are too inflexible.
[11:02] <rmg51> and it looks strange to see some one running down the street dressed in jeans
[11:02] <rmg51> what is he running from?
[11:03] <rmg51> bring ID and bail money ;-)
[11:06] <JonathanD> hah
[11:06] <JonathanD> rmg51: I'd rather go canoe every morning at this point but thats somewhat impractical :P
[11:16] <rmg51> you just need a job near the water
[11:17] <JonathanD> My job is near the water.
[11:17] <JonathanD> Our office is right off the river in consh.
[11:18] <JonathanD> meh
[11:19] <JonathanD> finding hotels is a pita.
[11:29] <rmg51> find hotels is easy
[11:30] <rmg51> finding one you can afford is the problem
[11:32] <JonathanD> rmg51: it's not for me.
[11:32] <JonathanD> looking for "suggestions" for fosscon.
[11:32] <JonathanD> Trying to find stuff that is 1.) Cheap and 2.) either near enough to walk, or near enough MT to train.
[11:34] <JonathanD> My method thus far has been scrolling along the regionals on google maps wiht "hotels" in the search bow
[11:34] <rmg51> good luck
[11:34] <rmg51> time for breakfast
[11:35] <JonathanD> mmm
[13:21] <SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
[13:52] <andrew> http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html
[13:52] <PennBot> Title: NASA - NASA TV (at www.nasa.gov)
[14:31] <InHisName> Hi, and a good morning too!
[14:31] <InHisName> I've just upgraded my main computer to 10.10 and then to 11.04.
[14:33] <InHisName> Now I cannot find how to start Pidgin.    Used to be:  apps>internet>pidgin      How to find it in the new thingy (unity?) on left edge of desktop ?
[14:35] <jedijf> InHisName: is it installed?
[14:35] <InHisName> I think so,  software apps button I noticed Pidgin there with "uninstall" button active.
[14:38] <andrew> click the top left ubuntu logo, type pidgin?
[14:39] <jedijf> and notice the apps...more apps...etc
[14:43] <InHisName> Now trying to tweek my name here.                      (09:38:21 AM) NickServ: (notice) You are already logged in as InHisName.
[14:48] <InHisName> Grrrr, I can't seem to change to another nick.    Says I'm already logged in as InHisName
[14:50] <andrew> ghost
[14:50] <andrew> use the ghost command
[14:50] <andrew> wait
[14:51] <andrew> what are you trying to do?
[14:53] <InHisName1> finally found Pidgin.    Gotta do more mouse clics and less hoovering to get to it.
[14:53] <andrew> just type, it should find it
[14:54] <InHisName1> click left upper corner (barely see icon there)    choose internet - then choose more - finally choose Pidgin.
[14:55] <andrew> click left upper corner (or hit the super key) type pidgin, hit enter
[14:55] <andrew> Darn kids nowadays being so mouse dependent
[14:55] <InHisName1> Typing found it  but that is a click + sixletters + another click.
[14:56] <InHisName1> KIDS ?????!!??
[14:56] <PennBot> It has been said that KIDS are in bed, InHisName1
[14:56] <andrew> InHisName1: nonsense: super key, type, down arrow, enter
[14:57] <andrew> (I missed the down arrow the first time)
[14:57] <InHisName1> super key ?
[14:57] <andrew> It's the one that is typically located under the shift/z
[14:57] <andrew> and between the ctrl & alt
[14:57] <InHisName1> never mind the OTHER os uses the same key
[14:59] <andrew> What does that have to do with this conversation? are we forbidden to use it because an operating system that isn't even installed, let alone running also uses it? Better toss out my entire keyboard then
[15:00] <InHisName1> Now can't find how to change my nick in Pidgin.    /msg NickServ newname  (with or without a password)   keeps sending --->  you are already logged in InHisName
[15:00] <andrew> you change your name using /nick newNick
[15:01] <InHisName1> Does it use the under-utilized key between the right-ctrl and right 'super-key' ?     That would be way cool.
[15:02] <andrew> a lot of programs utilize that key
[15:04] <InHisName> thanks
[15:06] <InHisName> Now to get CUPS working again after a few months of not working.
[15:07] <InHisName> Its 'hooked' to network printer.    But all jobs for last 9 months stoppped and not printing.
[15:13] <ChinnoDog> sup peeps
[15:13] <InHisName> I'm attempting to fix my cups
[15:15] <InHisName> seems to be fixed after answering prompt for login and password.
[16:16] <InHisName> Yes, another print printed just fine.
[16:19] <InHisName> on a web page is:
I Want One!
        but I am unable to get google's advanced search to reject based on string soldOut.   I even have set to search WHOLE page.   Is it impossible to search on that portion of a page ?
[16:21] <andrew> because google tends to ignore what the user can't read/see
[16:23] <InHisName> is there another search engine that allow that kind of serching ?
[16:25] <InHisName> I am getting 2 rows x 2 columns in destop switching.   How to change options ?   Used to right click lower right icons.   Unity took them away.   It's icons don't have options for right clicking.
[16:26] <andrew> what are you trying to accomplish?
[16:34] <teddy-dbear> sounds like he wants to increase the number of desktops
[16:44] <andrew> InHisName: open compizconfig-settings-manager
[16:45] <andrew> (install it if you don't have it installed)
[16:45] <andrew> I was asking more about his searching, not the desktops
[16:49] <JonathanD> I think wawa for lunch today.
[17:24] <InHisName> Ok, found universal setting manager- cool does compiz too.   Do I need to re-boot or re-start something to make new settings take hold ?
[17:25] <andrew> not sure what the universal setting manager is, but compizconfig-settings-manager will change it for you, and all of it's changes are in real-time
[17:26] <InHisName> I'm in adv search and want to eliminate pages that are sold out.  When item quantity appears then item is sold out.   But its kinda like the class="" problem.     http://www.google.com/advanced_search?q=Ou%C7%9D+-soldOut+-ITEM-QUANTITY+site:moofi.woot.com&num=100&hl=en&lr=&client=ubuntu&channel=fs&biw=722&bih=970&prmd=ivns
[17:26] <PennBot> Title: Google Advanced Search (at www.google.com)
[17:29] <andrew> it might index alt tags
[17:29] <andrew> and/or title tags
[17:29] <andrew> but beyond that, it has no reason to index class/id tags
[17:33] <InHisName> Found the compiz mgr.  didn't find rows & columns settings but added cube and rotate.
[17:34] <InHisName> Knocked out unity.    and border around windows.    Can't drag windows.
[17:34] <andrew> it's under general
[17:35] <InHisName> Compizz config settings mgr may be stuck label in top border still.
[17:35] <andrew> general -> general options -> desktop size
[17:35] <InHisName> No options to start apps any more.
[17:36] <InHisName> need keyboard commands to start things for time being.
[17:38] <teddy-dbear> you really can't use the cube with unity
[17:38] <teddy-dbear> cube disables the unity plug in
[17:38] <InHisName> so it seems.   Is there way to start compiz mgr from keyboard ?
[17:40] <teddy-dbear> if you still have the thingy in upper right you can get to it from there
[17:40] <andrew> InHisName: alt+f2
[17:40] <InHisName> no thingy, click does nothing
[17:40] <teddy-dbear> upper left
[17:40] <InHisName> alt-f2   nothing
[17:41] <InHisName> upper left - nothing  both right and left clicking
[17:45] <teddy-dbear> your screwed :-D
[17:45] <InHisName> Oh, I do have one terminal session open.
[17:46] <InHisName> Can compiz mgr be started from command line ?
[17:48] <teddy-dbear> type ccsm
[17:50] <InHisName> Ok its started.   Turned off cube and rotate.
[17:50] <InHisName> Enabled 'Wall'    is that Unity ?
[17:54] <teddy-dbear> no
[17:54] <teddy-dbear> unity plug in
[17:54] <InHisName> Still don't have borders around windows yet either.
[17:55] <teddy-dbear> Ubuntu Unity Plugin
[17:55] <InHisName> Found Unity/ turned on -- still now borders yet.
[17:56] <InHisName> super key / upper left/  left edge not showing unity yet
[17:57] <teddy-dbear> try desktopwall
[17:58] <InHisName> At present I have General: composite & OpenGL
[17:58] <InHisName> nothing checked accessability
[17:58] <InHisName> desktop:  Unity & Wall
[18:03] <InHisName> how to move window with keyboard strokes ?
[18:04] <InHisName> Got restarted,  Unity showing but STILL no borders around windows.
[18:08] <SamuraiAlba> good bacon to all!
[18:10] <INH_TestBox> Well Alt-F7 moves windows normally
[18:10] <INH_TestBox> Except in main cmptr doesn't work
[18:17] <InHisName> Guess I'll try rebooting to see it that does anything
[18:25] <InHisName> Rebooted but still no borders and can't drag with mouse or Alt-F7  neither works
[18:30] <InHisName> Now I've turned off all items except for Mouse polling in compiz settings
[18:30] <InHisName> STILL no borders on the windows
[18:33] <teddy-dbear> try enabling Scale in compiz
[18:33] <teddy-dbear> I don't remember if that's what worked for me
[18:34] <teddy-dbear> you'll find it under windows management
[19:13] <INH_TestBox> I botched things worse.   No top bar, no untity thingy, so way to start anything.
[19:13] <jedijf> alt f2 will work
[19:13] <INH_TestBox> I have logged into diff user.   Can I change settings for 1st user for ccsm via 2nd user ?
[19:14] <INH_TestBox> Alt-F2 does nothing
[19:15] <teddy-dbear> you are so screwed
[19:17] <teddy-dbear> this is why I'm not a big fan of unity
[19:17] <teddy-dbear> I'll stick to classic for now
[20:00] <INH_TestBox> where does compiz mgr save changes to?    I tried /home/user/.compiz/session/   but that does not seem to be it.
[20:12] <INH_TestBox> Can I UNinstall / REinstall compiz or is it another term?
[20:21] <teddy-dbear> just give up
[20:21] <teddy-dbear> reboot
[20:21] <teddy-dbear> recovery mode
[20:22] <teddy-dbear> login screen
[20:22] <teddy-dbear> switch to Ubuntu Classic
[20:22] <teddy-dbear> done
[20:23] <teddy-dbear> forget Unity at least for the next 6 months
[20:26] <JonathanD> heh :P
[20:30] <teddy-dbear> JonathanD: if you don't like that idea you help INH_TestBox fix his problems :-/
[21:00] <InHisName> Well, I have borders and unitiy back running again.
[21:01] <InHisName> I've been getting errors at reboot from polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1 and it make a bug report.   Can I do something about that ?   Uninstall / delete / or ???
[21:03] <InHisName> Synaptic only shows polkit-kde-1 as being installed     nothing about polkit-gnome- whatever else.
[21:15] <InHisName> HELLO    Hello    hello     anyone awake yet ?
[21:16] <teddy-dbear> no
[21:16] <teddy-dbear> got to go
[21:16] <teddy-dbear> later
[21:35] <InHisName> only a stuffed teddy bear is all that is awake so far ?
[22:29] <InHisName> yawn
[22:36] <InHisName> when I am starting up, testuser is already logged in, before I click to login.   Where is this occuring so I can remove the automatic login ?
[22:58] <IdleOne> InHisName: System > Admin > Login
[22:58] <IdleOne> that user may be set to auto login