[01:28] <ruben23> hi there guys how do i set a sudo user to have passwordless everytime i run a command.? any idea
[01:28] <genii> It's an extremely horrible idea but can be done in the sudoers file
[01:28] <Ben64> yeah it's a bad idea
[01:29] <ruben23> genii: yes just need to test something, pls can you guide into somehow
[01:31] <genii> Do you know how to use vi?
[01:33] <ruben23> i uncomment this
[01:33] <genii> Basically: sudo visudo      .... and to the line which says: %sudo   ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL          to add a space and then put: NOPASSWD:ALL    and then save and exit
[01:34] <ruben23> i uncomment this
[01:34] <ruben23> https://pastebin.com/feXzDPcB
[01:44] <tonton1> hello
[04:09] <IShavedForThis_> does anyone use plex here, and if so, do you know of a good application to rename files according the the plex name syntax?
[04:45] <oerheks> IShavedForThis_, you didn't answer tomreyn earlier, and now, what is plex name syntax?
[05:31] <cpaelzer> good morning
[06:20] <arunpyasi> What may be the reason for " kernel panic-not syncing: VFS: unable to mount root fs on unknown block(0,0) " ? Its 16.04, I already had it installed and running fine.. but later, I got that error while boot but boots fine in the advanced option recovery mode..
[06:32] <hateball> arunpyasi: filesystem or physical error perhaps
[06:32] <hateball> arunpyasi: run recovery (or liveboot) and fsck your partitions
[06:33] <hateball> and then you may want to check the drive for errors with smartctl
[06:34] <arunpyasi> hateball, I did fsck, nothing happened.
[06:34] <arunpyasi> hateball, so, can be a physical error ?
[06:34] <arunpyasi> hateball, how do I find the faulty HDD with smartctl ?
[06:35] <arunpyasi> I did saw only 8 bad sectors.. does that mean this HDD cannot be used anymore ?
[06:41] <hateball> arunpyasi: I personally replace drives soon as they get 1 bad sector
[06:41] <hateball> It usually means they'll be going dead sooner rather than later
[06:41] <hateball> arunpyasi: but check also for read/write errors
[06:41] <hateball> as sectors *can* be marked as bad and the drive still continue to work
[06:42] <hateball> It depends how much you value your data I guess :)
[06:43] <arunpyasi> hateball, hmm.. It doesn't have data but the softwares and their configurations
[06:43] <arunpyasi> hateball, so, 8 bad sector is huge?
[06:46] <arunpyasi> hateball, Read Error value is 0
[06:56] <hateball> arunpyasi: could you pastebin the output of that smartctl ?
[07:09] <arunpyasi> hateball, http://dpaste.com/0PWYX2M
[07:29] <hateball> arunpyasi: doesnt look unhealthy other than the bad sectors
[07:30] <hateball> arunpyasi: I'd keep an eye on it tho
[07:32] <arunpyasi> hateball, so, what may be the other way for it ? What more can I try ?
[08:24] <Guest89023> hey hey
[08:24] <Guest89023> hello MONDAY
[08:24] <Guest89023> :D
[08:51] <lordievader> o/
[08:52] <hehehe> heya
[08:52] <hehehe> lordievader: are you a kimsufi user by a chance?
[08:52] <hehehe> I may get it :) or similar
[08:52] <lordievader> hehehe: Never heard of that....
[08:52] <lordievader> What is it?
[08:52] <hehehe> whaaaat
[08:52] <hehehe> one of the cheapest servers providers in the world
[08:52] <hehehe> :)
[08:53] <hehehe> apart scaleway
[08:53] <lordievader> I think I am cheaper :P (free)
[08:53] <lordievader> Well sort of anyways.
[08:53] <hehehe> lol you host raspberry at home?
[08:53] <lordievader> Among others.
[08:54] <hehehe> yes it can be cheaper that way for sure
[08:54] <hehehe> but I am moving often to I choose DC
[08:54] <hehehe> so I
[08:54] <hehehe> else I have to drag a bunch of boxes with me
[08:55] <lordievader> My primary server has an i7.
[08:55] <hehehe> but why do you have so many at home?
[08:56] <hehehe> whats your latency like?
[08:56] <lordievader> Hobby ;)
[08:56] <lordievader> Latency to what?
[08:56] <hehehe> I though you are hosting production server there
[08:56] <hehehe> some saas
[08:56] <hehehe> :D
[08:56] <hehehe> I can imagine customers lag :D
[08:57] <lordievader> No, just private stuff.
[08:57] <hehehe> https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/103257/tutorial-create-your-own-windows-template-using-virtualbox
[08:57] <hehehe> so nice :D
[08:57] <hehehe> can install windows on cheap linux boxes :D
[08:57] <lordievader> Network of the university is quite nice :) 40Gbit up \o/
[08:58] <hehehe> haha
[08:58] <hehehe> you need to run server on sinclair or spectrum or robotron
[08:58] <hehehe> some ancient crap :D
[08:59] <lordievader> ?
[08:59] <hehehe> probably it may even work
[08:59] <hehehe> for fun
[08:59] <hehehe> try to fun server on some ancient concole
[08:59] <hehehe> console'
[08:59] <hehehe> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/precise/man1/audio2tape.1.html
[08:59] <hehehe> LOL
[08:59] <hehehe> whats that?
[09:03] <hehehe> anyways
[09:03] <hehehe> my idea is find a cheap powerful host
[09:03] <hehehe> and install windows on it :D
[09:03] <hehehe> and scaleway provides cloud baremetal
[09:03] <hehehe> I wonder how they can do it
[09:03] <hehehe> provision time 2-3 min
[09:04] <lordievader> Why?
[09:06] <hehehe> why @windows?
[09:06] <hehehe> I use it for work :)
[09:07] <hehehe> at home I use linux
[09:07] <gheorghe> @hehehe, the corporation you work at makes you use windows? do you live the same horror as I do?
[09:08] <hehehe> well I like all OSes I even had MacOs server :)
[09:08] <hehehe> as to forced nope - but some software there wont work on linux
[09:09] <hehehe> especially stuff like qq messenger
[09:09] <hehehe> btw https://udemycoupon.org/
[09:09] <hehehe> some free udemy courses lol
[09:13] <gheorghe> we use skype for business and that doesn't work properly on linux
[09:13] <gheorghe> well, it works on android.
[09:14] <hateball> out of all the voice/video things I've used I find Skype to be the least reliable one
[09:14] <hateball> anything webrtc is just... nice
[09:16] <gheorghe> @hateball: what alternatives to skype for business did you sue?
[09:18] <hateball> gheorghe: well the most comparable would be Hangouts
[09:20] <hateball> depends if you need the PBX stuff or not
[09:20] <hateball> appear.in is nice for one-off things
[09:20] <hateball> and there's plenty others
[09:22] <gheorghe> thank you for the information! now i can make fun of my managers
[09:24] <hateball> heh
[09:24] <hateball> well if you're running a mostly microsoft environment, especially with exchange, then skype is a natural choice
[09:25] <hateball> It's just that there are better options, as all of us using Linux are aware of ;)
[09:28] <gheorghe> yes, and this affects my mindset when I work with the tools provided by the company. of course they have AD and exchange and skype and all the microsoft stuff...
[09:46] <Fieldy> yuck :/
[09:49] <hehehe> :)
[09:49] <hehehe> whats the easiest vnc server out there?
[09:49] <hehehe> i installed some following tutorial and its a clusterfuck :D
[09:49] <Vorap> hehehe: I'd recommend xrdp, I'
[09:50] <Vorap> ve used it before
[09:50] <Vorap> And it has been very nice and easy to use¨'
[09:51] <gheorghe> i use vino since it is default with gnome3
[09:52]  * lordievader like xpra
[09:52] <lordievader> If you don't use keys for your ssh, there is even a Windows client :P
[09:54] <hehehe> Vorap: do I need to install mate client or similar for xrdp?
[09:54] <hehehe> it seems its not a friend with gnome :D
[09:56] <hehehe> lordievader: well xpra is doing what?
[09:56] <hehehe> once installed it can be used to connect to a desktop remotely?
[09:56] <lordievader> hehehe: Basically tmux/screen for xforwarding.
[09:57] <lordievader> You normaly don't run an entire desktop, but just the applications you need.
[09:57] <hehehe> lol its ubuntu desktop server
[09:57] <hehehe> lordievader: what do u mean?
[09:57] <lordievader> hehehe: Do you know what X forwarding is?
[09:57] <hehehe> i usually run entire desktop
[09:58] <hehehe> itX11
[09:58] <hehehe> i just want something simple
[09:58] <hehehe> :)
[09:58] <hehehe> to connect to remote ubuntu desktop
[09:59] <lordievader> X forwarding allows you to run an application on a remote host and see the gui locally.
[09:59] <lordievader> Xpra allows you to attach and detach to such a process.
[10:00] <hehehe> cool
[10:00] <lordievader> I've used it for things that needed to keep running in a browser.
[10:00] <hehehe> can it be used for virtual box?
[10:00] <hehehe> so with x forwarding u can use server instead of desktop?
[10:00] <hehehe> hmm
[10:01] <lordievader> Virtualbox runs its own vnc, right?
[10:01] <hehehe> I dont know :D
[10:01] <hehehe> yet to install it
[10:01] <hehehe> does it?
[10:01] <lordievader> Thought so, haven't used it in ages. Qemu/libvirt does.
[10:02] <hehehe> why
[10:03] <cpaelzer> yeah also always going with qemu/libvirt
[10:03] <lordievader> Qemu is in most cases faster (on Linux).
[10:04] <cpaelzer> The only thing I still sometimes have to admit is the UI for USB forwarding on virtualbox is nicer
[10:04] <lordievader> Tooling around it is also much nicer.
[10:04] <cpaelzer> other than that all seems to be better around qemu/libvirt these days
[10:11] <hehehe> xrdp nearly works but why no copy paste passwd there?
[10:12] <hehehe> have to type pass by hand
[10:12] <hehehe> like wtf sometimes I think people dont think
[10:12] <hehehe> who is going to type random chars 40+ passwd by hand
[10:12] <hehehe> :D
[10:19] <hehehe> Vorap: thanks :D
[10:30] <hehehe> it seems aptitude stuck
[10:30] <hehehe> how I can see if its installing something or not?
[10:30] <hehehe> :)
[10:38] <hehehe> I can kill apt via pid
[10:38] <hehehe> but I just run - update system via system software gui
[10:38] <hehehe> .. :D
[10:40] <hehehe> fixed
[10:50] <gheorghe> the GUI is always odd. i never update with the gui, just with apt
[10:51] <gheorghe> i use the GUI only for network settings since it seems to overwrite stuff you do via terminal
[10:51] <gheorghe> and anyway, i deploy all servers without gui
[10:51] <gheorghe> i use gui only @home for games & facebook
[10:53] <hehehe> ::)))
[11:15] <redvic> hi need help with data recovery form a external can someone advise or point to a chat room that might
[11:21] <hehehe> recover as?
[11:21] <hehehe> more details
[11:28] <redvic> I have a external hard drive WD elements, shows folders but empty inside and when I try to copy image on root of the drive it takes forever, drive is slow and makes noises. Drive is damaged
[11:29] <lordievader> redvic: Could you pastebin the output of 'sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdX' (where X refers to the drive letter of the external drive)
[11:45] <redvic> lordievader, will try now
[11:57] <cpaelzer> jamespage: did you override the mininet dep8 test issues in artful-proposed?
[11:58] <cpaelzer> jamespage: 2.2.2-1 migrated, but follow on tests triggering it still fail the same way
[11:58] <jamespage> cpaelzer: no
[11:58] <cpaelzer> or was that a retry-button-push-fest :-)
[11:58] <cpaelzer> hmm interesting http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/mininet/artful/amd64 holds no 2.2.2-1 pass
[11:59] <cpaelzer> but there should be at least one from its own sync I'd think
[12:01] <redvic> lordievader, terminals says command not found
[12:01] <lordievader> redvic: Install it, sudo apt-get install smartmontools
[12:11] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I'll try to recreate and let you know if I find something to discuss
[12:11] <cpaelzer> jamespage: if you hear about anybody else who might have forced that through let me know
[12:14] <redvic> lordievader, can just copy paste output here?
[12:14] <lordievader> !paste | redvic
[12:18] <redvic> ubottu, ok it just one line as it failed
[12:19] <redvic> lordievader, Read Device Identity failed: empty IDENTIFY data
[12:19] <lordievader> redvic: What command did you issue?
[12:20] <redvic> lordievader, sudo smartctl -a /dev/sdb
[12:21] <lordievader> redvic: You probably need the '-d sat' flag, thus: sudo smartctl -d sat -a /dev/sdb
[12:22] <redvic> lordievader, it worked now to figure out how to get it to you
[12:22] <cpaelzer> jamespage: ok, at least locally reproducible with artful (without proposed) - that confirms my expectation
[12:23] <lordievader> redvic: See the paste output of ubottu ;)
[12:24] <redvic> lordievader, http://paste.ubuntu.com/24899024/
[12:25] <lordievader> redvic: Ah, 51 pending sectors. Could be worse, but yes. Probably a good idea to replace the drive.
[12:26] <lordievader> About the missing files, if an fsck has run (and it is some ext filesystem), did you check the lost+found folder?
[12:30] <redvic> lordievader, there is now lost and found folder so should i do a fsck ?
[12:31] <lordievader> redvic: What kind of filesystem is on there?
[12:38] <redvic> lordievader, I am batteling to check file system gui properties displays nothing and terminal gives a error lodaing operating system
[12:39] <redvic> lordievader, i used sudo file -sL /dev/sdb command
[12:40] <redvic> lordievader, fuseblk ??
[12:40] <lordievader> redvic: blkid tells you ;)
[12:56] <redvic> lordievader, sudo blkid /dev/sdb
[12:56] <redvic>  PTUUID="0004a9a0" PTTYPE="dos"
[12:57] <lordievader> redvic: What is the full output of 'sudo blkid'?
[13:01] <redvic> sudo blkid /dev/sdb: PTUUID="0004a9a0" PTTYPE="dos" that is it
[13:01] <redvic> lordievader, is my command correct
[13:02] <redvic> lord
[13:02] <redvic> lordievader, the owner uses the drive on whindows so DOS does seem like a option
[13:03] <lordievader> redvic: Well, you want to see what kind of filesystem is on the partition, sdb refers to a disk, sdb1, for example, refers to the first partition on the disk.
[13:03] <lordievader> But if it is used on Windows it is most likely ntfs... and I have no experience with file recovery on ntfs filesystems.
[13:04] <redvic> lordievader, used gui disks option and it says partition type for sdb1 is HPFS/NTFS so NTFS?
[13:05] <lordievader> Yes, probably.
[13:07] <redvic> lordievader, /dev/sdb1: LABEL="Backup Kuehl" UUID="60CC5B9ACC5B6974" TYPE="ntfs" PARTUUID="0004a9a0-01"
[13:07] <redvic> lordievader, got the command right and it also says NTFS
[13:08] <lordievader> Yeah, indeed.
[13:08] <redvic> lordievader, any advise on how to get the data back? it so frustating to see the data and not be able to copy
[13:08] <lordievader> Oh, you do see it?
[13:08] <lordievader> I'd dd the disk first, and play with that. Leave the disk as is.
[13:09] <redvic> lordievader, dd ?
[13:09] <lordievader> !dd
[13:09] <lordievader> Hmm
[13:09] <lordievader> !info dd
[13:09] <lordievader> redvic: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/xenial/man1/dd.1.html
[13:10] <redvic> drive is connected to my laptop ubuntu 16.04 lts
[13:12] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I found the bug, need to fix openvswitch debian/test/vanilly&dpdk scripts
[13:13] <cpaelzer> jamespage: I don't see how that passed proposed, but I opened a bug and will fix it
[13:13] <cpaelzer> jamespage: TL;DR the new openvswitch-testcontroller spawns a service by default which is blocking the mininet handling as the tests use it
[13:13] <jamespage> cpaelzer: tbh it still remains a bit of black magic to me
[13:13] <jamespage> cpaelzer: oh ok
[13:13] <jamespage> odd
[13:13] <cpaelzer> jamespage: stopping that service in advance to the tests resolves the issue by not blocking the port then
[13:14] <jamespage> you might not need the openvswitch-testcontroller any longer then
[13:14] <jamespage> not sure
[13:14] <cpaelzer> I'll try that as an alternative solution as well
[13:15] <cpaelzer> jamespage: bug 1698808 for tracking and eventually fix
[13:27] <geojunkieSCI> ??paste
[13:48] <hehehe> quemu is nice
[13:48] <hehehe> :D
[13:48] <hehehe> a bit more learning curve however seems working well
[13:48] <hehehe> :)
[14:50] <axisys> anyone has ubuntu running dl380 gen9 or like? I am trying to find out how to switch to passthrough raid?
[15:00] <drab> axisys: ime (I researched the same thing for my SM servers) it's less about the server and ubuntu and more about the controller
[15:00] <drab> in my case for example it's LSI controller which was flashed to IT mode
[15:03] <drab> so I'd find exactly what raid card that server has and then google for that mode and JBOD mode / IT mode (which may already be possible as is)
[15:10] <qman__> right, it's controller dependent, some support it, some can be flashed to support it, some can't
[15:14] <axisys> I am trying to find out a "how to"
[15:19] <axisys> so with passthrough.. do I still worry about the controller battery?
[15:19] <axisys> like when it expires, need to replace it?
[15:33] <yoink> So I've got an odd issue: I can't delete a directory; I'm being told it's not empty, except it's empty and there are no hidden files and as superuser I should be able to do so - but sadly I cannot.
[15:38] <genii> yoink: Tried with rm -rf /dirname  instead of rmdir /dirname  ?
[15:38] <yoink> genii: many times.
[15:38] <yoink> :(
[15:38] <yoink> I tried moving the directory and then deleting... nothing.
[15:39] <yoink> I wonder if it's a filesystem issue.
[15:40] <genii> yoink: Is the directory a mount point?
[15:41] <yoink> genii: nope - it was a deep subfolder in a build pipeline on a remote runner.
[15:42] <genii> yoink: Is your commandline prompt sitting inside the directory you're trying to remove?
[15:42] <yoink> Builds started failing one day and it was because this dirctory in question couldn't be deleted. So I logged in to delete it and found the same issue.
[15:43] <genii> yoink: A remount of the partition it's on in read-only and and fsck of that partition seem in order
[15:43] <yoink> genii: sadly no... I can not remove it no matter where I am, and I applied 777 permissions on it just to make sure it wasn't permission-related. The directly does have an oddly large size listed (20K vs 4K).
[15:43] <genii> Sounds like hd/inode corruption
[15:49] <yoink> genii: thanks, had a feeling that's what it was. :/
[15:52] <gheorghe> the ubuntu server installer automated a creation of a swap partition of 6 GB on a VDA of 7 GB. after that, it crached. gee i wonder why ... manually editing the partitions now ...
[16:15] <axisys> during raid build I see there is a question for ssd over provisioning optimation option.. should this be enabled or disabled? any sugeestion?
[16:15] <axisys> suggestion*
[16:35] <hehehe> :D
[16:35] <hehehe> gheorghe: did u ever run windows image on some linux vps? :)
[16:35] <hehehe> basically making  it windows flavor
[16:35] <hehehe> also I found new host
[16:35] <hehehe> http://lg.chi.mnx.io/#tests
[16:35] <hehehe> :)
[16:56] <gheorghe> hehehe: i am sure i wrote somewhere above how much i do NOT like windows. it is a good OS, but overcomplicated. this happens when you have only one coporation working on the same OS for 20 years. also, all the revolutionary ideeas will come on open source, so windows is just holding humanity back
[16:58] <Ussat> you all aware of this:  https://blog.qualys.com/securitylabs/2017/06/19/the-stack-clash
[16:59] <hehehe> gheorghe: well to a degree yes, however I use QQ and some other chinese apps
[16:59] <hehehe> I can run them on the phone but for privacy reasons I prefer separate server :) and they run on windows only
[16:59] <hehehe> no linux what so ever
[16:59] <hehehe> mostly tensent apps
[16:59] <hehehe> else yes I would not bother
[17:00] <hehehe> with open source - how to make money?
[17:00] <hehehe> thats also a question
[17:00] <Ussat> hehehe, I assume you are not going to start the same rant you just got booted from ##windows from
[17:01] <hehehe> which rant?
[17:01] <gheorghe> hehehe: ubuntu is making tons of money now with lxd openstack. it's like the first time in history they actually make money
[17:01] <hehehe> I said a fact
[17:01] <Ussat> its a generalisation...
[17:01] <hehehe> Ussat: cut rants
[17:02] <hehehe> u can use google and check
[17:02] <hehehe> stats
[17:02] <Ussat> ...
[17:02] <Ussat> because everything on the net is true
[17:02] <gheorghe> hehehe: you don't have to sell the software to get the money. you can sell support for that software... and it also helps the code get better over time because other companies will improve it, so you can guarantee quality.
[17:02] <hehehe> gheorghe: for example say ecommerce app developers they get some cash
[17:02] <hehehe> but if it was closed source they could get more
[17:03] <hehehe> I like open source for its transparency
[17:03] <hehehe> and yes nowdays many people distrust closed source
[17:03] <Ussat> hehehe, its not a all or nothing game, both open and closed has its merrits
[17:03] <Ussat> people distrust a lot of open also
[17:03] <hehehe> I think if there was a way to check closed source for backdoors yes it would help
[17:03] <Ussat> again, bth have their merrits
[17:04] <hehehe> support yes but some soft is so good it needs no support :)
[17:05] <hehehe> I am going to shop  if someone can post links on how to earn money with open source , would be nice
[17:05] <Ussat> do tell
[17:05] <jbicha> maybe y'all need a FAQ for this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/6hzm8j/are_there_any_plans_for_using_mariadb_as_default/
[17:05] <Ussat> I am not a RH fanbio (TBH I am not a fanboi of any OS) but RH seems to be doin well
[17:26] <gheorghe> hehehe "u can use google and check ... stats" what stats do you mean?
[17:29] <gheorghe> jbicha: i've been using only mariadb for some years now... since i found out what oracle did :D
[17:29]  * rbasak wonders what Oracle did
[17:32] <gheorghe> rbasak: MySQL was owned and sponsored by a single for-profit firm, the Swedish company MySQL AB, now owned by Oracle Corporation.[9] For proprietary use, several paid editions are available, and offer additional functionality.
[17:32] <gheorghe> from wikipedia
[17:33] <jbicha> that doesn't sound too bad ;)
[17:33] <nacc> gheorghe: so they bought MySQL AB?
[17:33] <rbasak> gheorghe: OK, so what did they do to MySQL, the Free Software project?
[17:34] <qman__> I assume they did what they do to every other free software project, which is stop all development
[17:34] <qman__> every other free software project they acquire*
[17:34] <rbasak> qman__: your assumption is flat out wrong. Development has continued actively.
[17:35] <nacc> qman__: FUD. please do research before making false statements.
[17:36]  * jbicha still uses VirtualBox :)
[17:36] <rbasak> qman__: see: MySQL 5.5, MySQL 5.6, MySQL 5.7 and the upcoming MySQL 8.0.
[17:45] <gheorghe> i understand that some companies want to buy open source and make it pay 2 play, but still using that software would mean funding such actions. that is why a lot of distros switched to mariadb... debian was kind of late on this, but than again debian is usually a very stable release
[17:46] <oerheks> 'companies want to buy open source'... ?
[17:47] <oerheks> name 1 please?
[17:47] <jbicha> gheorghe: you do realize that Canonical is a commercial company, too, right?
[17:50] <dpb1> the percona guys seems to really be happy with the job that oracle is doing, fwiw.
[17:50] <rbasak> MySQL isn't "pay 2 play".
[17:52] <sarnold> you can certainly download and use mysql entirely for free. you can make changes to it same as always.
[17:52] <sarnold> what you can't get is any kind of communication from anyone at oracle about anything. ever. ;) you get the CPUs published every few months to tell you very vaguely what they fixed two months ago.
[17:53] <rbasak> Debian sid still ships MySQL. It meets Debian's requirements of Free Software -ness.
[17:53] <sarnold> "unspecified issue affected availability. cvss score 7."
[17:53] <sarnold> how maria and percona can ever get anything done with an upstream like that is beyond me
[17:53] <nacc> ahasenack: nice work on the samba changes. I'm building locally and then will tag and upload them.
[17:54] <sarnold> but considering most people treat their database as a big binary blob it really doesn't change how many people use it day to day.
[17:58] <ahasenack> nacc: thx, I saw that there is a samba upload stuck in excuses, from 3 days ago
[17:58] <ahasenack> nacc: what happens when we upload now and that version is stuck there still?
[17:59] <nacc> ahasenack: well, yours will go on top and be the one stuck :)
[17:59] <ahasenack> nacc: stuck only if the test error happens, right?
[17:59] <nacc> ahasenack: looks to be a gvfs regression in a-p?
[17:59] <nacc> ahasenack: right
[17:59] <nacc> ahasenack: are yoa able to reproduce the a-p failure in gvfs?
[17:59] <ahasenack> haven't tried yet
[18:00] <ahasenack> I just saw it there
[18:00] <nacc> ahasenack: odd that it *only* fails on amd64 ...
[18:00] <nacc> mdeslaur: --^ ?
[18:00] <ahasenack> I don't know if it's a common brittle failure or not
[18:01] <nacc> ahasenack: it would appear to have passed with 0ubuntu1 but not 2ubuntu1. But there could be other things moving there, of course: http://autopkgtest.ubuntu.com/packages/g/gvfs/artful/amd
[18:02] <ahasenack> it failed in teardown, curious
[18:04] <nacc> ahasenack: yeah, it might be a bad test case, in that the pid file might be already cleaned up (racy?)
[18:04] <jbicha> gvfs' autopkgtest is a bit flaky
[18:04] <ahasenack> nacc: can you import gvfs, or do we only import server packages?
[18:05] <nacc> ahasenack: i can import it, but you can also run the autopkgtest locally w/o the tree (just use the srcpkg name). I'll kick off the importer now
[18:05] <ahasenack> sure, I just got used to git ubuntu clone :)
[18:05] <nacc> ahasenack: :)
[18:05] <jbicha> I'll retry the samba autopkgtest…
[18:05] <ahasenack> jbicha: thanks
[18:06] <nacc> jbicha: thanks, you certainly would have more knowledge of gvfs than I :)
[18:11] <gheorghe> jbicha: i know canonical is a comercial company, but canonical made some great things for the world we live in. all of us need to eat, but it depends how you get there
[18:13] <jbicha> nacc: did you see that slangasek uploaded python-django 1.10 to artful?
[18:13] <nacc> jbicha: yeah, i interacted with him on it earlier
[18:14] <nacc> jbicha: will probably re-merge again with 1.11 once i've confirmed with jamespage
[18:15] <nacc> ahasenack: alright, my merge passed the build (for samba)
[18:17] <ahasenack> ok
[18:22] <mdeslaur> nacc ahasenack : not sure why that test is failing
[18:23] <nacc> mdeslaur: ack, it seems odd :)
[18:23] <mdeslaur> didn't have time to look at it yet, but only on amd64 is weird. perhaps mash the retry button?
[18:24] <nacc> mdeslaur: yeah i think jbicha has done that now, we'll see
[18:31] <jbicha> yeah, the gvfs autopkgtest doesn't pass 100% of the time
[18:32] <jbicha> but the nplan autopkgtests are annoying me now :|
[18:48] <hehehe> well if people can copy and all all code is open source
[18:48] <hehehe> it will advance stuff yet also money wont be there
[18:49] <hehehe> essentially then most programmers would have to code for free :D
[18:49] <hehehe> if they agre great
[18:49] <trippeh> ooh apache httpd is no longer considering http/2 as experimental
[18:49] <trippeh> go go go apache httpd http/2 in ubuntu ;)
[18:51] <hehehe> what is http2?
[18:51] <hehehe> :D
[18:51] <hehehe> I am using it but yet to check what is it
[18:54] <nacc> trippeh: it's on the todo for this cycle (already uploaded, needs a MIR for nghttp2)
[18:57] <ahasenack> jbicha: samba gvfs tests passed this time, nice
[19:07] <hehehe> https://www.vultr.com/faq/#oschoices
[19:07] <hehehe> awesome
[19:24] <gheorghe> yea, these guys are really cheap. 10 minutes of food cost more than 6 months of their service
[19:29] <hehehe> lol do u eat gold?
[19:29] <hehehe> they got a promo going for new customers
[19:29] <hehehe> matching 1st deposit up to 100usd 100%
[19:30] <hehehe> I am moving from do to them :D
[19:33] <sarnold> damn that's really cheap
[19:36] <hehehe> :)))
[19:37] <hehehe> sarnold: well hardware is cheap now too
[19:37] <gheorghe> hehehe i wouldn't dump do that easy. they are really stable. well, it depends what you really need... :D
[19:38] <hehehe> its already done
[19:38] <hehehe> all hosts are more less same
[19:39] <gheorghe> do they still use kvm to deliver that cheap or do they give you a container?
[19:41] <hehehe> :) I guess kvm
[19:42] <hehehe> ping 33.9 :D
[19:50] <hehehe_off> hmm using xrdp and password copy paste yet to work
[19:50] <hehehe_off> into login screen
[19:50] <hehehe_off> via remmina
[19:52] <hehehe_off> ok its working
[19:52] <hehehe_off> gheorghe: what kind of open source business apps you use?
[19:53] <hehehe_off> I tried some - many suck
[19:53] <hehehe_off> like sugar crm
[19:53] <hehehe_off> some are ok
[20:03] <gheorghe> hehehe_off, first what's up with the different nick? why is it "off" ?
[20:06] <gheorghe> 2nd, i work in a corporation which has almost everything on windows, except servers. i sadly don't use open source as much as I would like. i am however using linux for everything else :D
[21:00] <hehehe> off cause I was eating
[21:00] <hehehe> else people may think I ignore them
[21:00] <hehehe> nowdays people treat irc like forum lol
[21:01] <sarnold> just use /away eating
[21:01] <hehehe> hehe
[21:01] <hehehe> sarnold: any ideas how I can make windows iso on linux with fedora virtio drivers
[21:02] <hehehe> I used imgburn on windows here I got brasero
[21:02] <hehehe> brasero looks kinda basic
[21:02] <sarnold> I think in the past I've used dd to get an iso image from a cd
[21:03] <hehehe> https://www.vultr.com/docs/windows-custom-iso-with-virtio-drivers
[21:03] <hehehe> to do same on linux
[21:03] <hehehe> I need to make new iso :D from combined files
[21:05] <hehehe> well I can simply burn iso withj brasero and see
[21:06] <hehehe> but it wont allow to add boot image so no
[21:06] <hehehe> btw thanks to one dude I jumped to qemu today
[21:06] <hehehe> with virt manager its better than virtual box :)
[21:08] <Epx998> anyone work on a hp dl160 g10 yet?
[21:08] <hehehe> why
[21:09] <Epx998> it has a lame feature id like to disable, not a hp channel i know - bios posts in a tiny thumbnail view - cant see anything on the thing i dont have micro vision eyes
[21:09] <sarnold> crazy
[21:10] <sarnold> normally bioses look comically oversized..
[21:11] <Epx998> it has an overview of info i dont need, normal sized, then in the upper left, a thumbnail view of anything id actually want to see
[21:12] <sarnold> ahasenack: thanks for tackling the smb1 issue :)
[21:12] <ahasenack> sarnold: it's a start :)
[21:12] <ahasenack> sarnold: realistically, and I know it's early, I think we might be able to disable it on the server side. Not so sure on the client side
[21:13] <sarnold> ahasenack: yeah, ther'es just so many cruddy old devices out there..
[21:13] <ahasenack> yep
[21:13] <ahasenack> and on server people probably know what they are doing, so it's not a big deal if they have to change one line in smb.conf
[21:14] <ahasenack> but client/desktop is a different matter
[21:14] <ahasenack> in that regard
[21:14] <ahasenack> we'll see
[21:18] <hehehe> qemu stuck - ubuntu said server error pls restart
[21:18] <hehehe> however I am running windows install in qemu - if I restart what will happen to vm?
[21:18] <hehehe> clusterfuck or it will be able to pick up?
[21:41] <hehehe> lol
[21:42] <gheorghe> i am confused ... so your bare metal is ubuntu, you run qemu-(i suppose)KVM and your VM is windows ...
[21:42] <gheorghe> am i right?
[21:46] <Epx998> hmm ubuntu 12 doesnt have hp gen10, just 9. are udeb's still available for ub12?
[21:47] <oerheks> ubuntu 12 is dead, eol
[21:48] <Epx998> yeah i know - but some of our prod environment still runs it
[21:48] <Epx998> our android developers are mostly on 12 I think per some google requirement or something
[21:48] <nacc> Epx998: your prod environment runs an OS that no longer gets updates??
[21:48] <oerheks> giving support is against logical sense.
[21:48] <Epx998> i cannot deploy 16+ and only some servers can get ub14 - it sucks
[21:49] <Epx998> nacc: yes a problem, if I was allowed to run updates.
[21:49] <nacc> Epx998: so your production is double insecure?
[21:49] <Epx998> nacc: you have no idea.
[21:50] <Epx998> lets see how ub14 netboot does on this gen 10
[21:51] <gheorghe> oerheks, when you say it's EOL you make me wonder how come i remember the day I installed it the first time and how come so much time has passed :))
[21:54] <oerheks> checking auth log might help
[21:59] <Epx998> hmm ub12 works on the G10, but my preseed didnt know what to do with the drive, even though it was detected.
[22:15] <tomreyn> sounds like you should revolt a little
[22:16] <tomreyn> (or find a different employer)
[22:17] <sarnold> Epx998: fwiw if you're stuck on 12.04 LTS you may wish to investigate ubuntu advantage https://buy.ubuntu.com/  -- it isn't as comprehensive as the 14.04 LTS or 16.04 LTS security updates but might help you through a rough patch
[22:18] <Epx998> sarnold: we are moving to 14, mgt is just dragging their heals 'if it aint broke..' but has we buy newer hardware its becoming a problem.
[22:18] <sarnold> Epx998: also be sure to file bug reports from the newer stuff on anything that doesn't work. it might take some effort to get things fixed but should help more people than just you :)
[22:18] <sarnold> Epx998: yeah :/ that's why a lot of people still have WinXP in production.. heh.
[22:19] <Epx998> today its a random hp gen 10 they to try, last week it was huewei whatever servers
[22:19] <Epx998> ub12 on a g10 is working, i just need to sort out my partman expert recipe
[22:20] <Epx998> week before last it was supermicro "micro servers"
[22:21] <Epx998> makes getting a decent preceed hard when my mgr keeps changing chassis, drives, raid controllers
[22:23] <sarnold> on the plus side not many people have the chance to see so many different types of hardware in a short time :)
[22:24] <Epx998> sarnold: yeah very true, I was just thinking that.  I see the problem here, controller is creating sdb and sdc, recipe specifys sda, and when I dont set partman-auto disk - it asks, so hmm.
[22:24] <Epx998> lets see what partman-auto/init_automatically_partition does
[22:25] <sarnold> Epx998: ugh and of course those drive names can change at a whim.. rough choice, the /dev/disk/by-* names are stable but not predictable from install to install..
[22:32] <drab> sarnold: the by-id ones seem predictable in my limited experience
[22:33] <drab> since they use the type and serial number
[22:33] <drab> wwn-0x50015179xxxx has been consistent reinstall after reinstall
[22:33] <sarnold> it should be yes
[22:34] <sarnold> but that means having an intern to type those in to an installer script of some sort
[22:35] <hehehe_off> hate hate smokers
[22:35] <hehehe_off> they are so nasty
[22:35] <hehehe_off> :D
[22:35] <hehehe_off> sorry :D
[22:35] <hehehe_off> just someone smoked in a flat I lived
[22:47] <Epx998> ugh whomever wrote this ub12 unattended mixed preseed and kickstart configs
[23:00] <drab> I never quite understood why kickstart became a thing in ubuntu land
[23:00] <drab> what's it for?
[23:01] <Ussat> what ?
[23:01] <Ussat> what dont you uderstand ?
[23:01] <drab> I mean, what are people using kickstart for when preseeding ubuntu? I saw a bunch of blogs about it when I was figureing out unattended installations and I couldn't quite get why it was needed
[23:02] <drab> maybe I do simple enough stuff that I don't need it
[23:02] <Ussat> How many servers you have ?
[23:02] <drab> a few dozens
[23:03] <Ussat> you build them all one at a time ?
[23:03] <Ussat> manually ?
[23:04] <Ussat> How long that take ya ?
[23:04] <drab> no, tftp/preseed , preseed files are managed by ansible. there's also about 50 desktops in the mix that get rebuilt regularly
[23:05] <Ussat> so......what dont you unedrstand then ?
[23:05] <tarpman> drab: only cases I've seen kickstart used are people coming from redhat land who hadn't learned preseed yet (and the case for wanting to use the same tools everywhere is certainly valid)
[23:08] <drab> tarpman: oh, ok, that makes sense, I just kept getting the impression kickstart did something "more" and it was better to pair with preseed, but then I could never figure out what that was and why I'd want to use kickstart
[23:08] <drab> so I didn't, but I kept wondering
[23:08] <tarpman> not that I know of
[23:08]  * tarpman just some guy in IRC though
[23:08] <drab> heh
[23:09] <drab> it's fairly prevalent if you google for ubuntu unattended install so it seemed more than just an accident, but go figure
[23:09]  * drab is just another guy on IRC
[23:11] <sarnold> drab: folks who started with rh tend to find kickstart easier to understand than preseed
[23:11] <sarnold> drab: I for one never seem to find docs to help people with preseed when they ask questions, so I'm sympathetic tothe idea of wanting to use another tool entirely
[23:11] <drab> I thought that was true for just about anything :P
[23:11] <drab> my point :P
[23:12] <drab> it's one of the few tools I've had to actually look at the source code of
[23:12] <sarnold> did it help? :)
[23:12] <drab> of course it didn't, it just made me more confused
[23:14] <hehehe> hi
[23:14] <hehehe> who here used playonlinux?
[23:15] <hehehe> for some bizzare reason after install I am yet to find how to start it gui wise
[23:16] <sarnold> drab: drat :)
[23:16] <hehehe> sarnold: so lets write docs
[23:16] <hehehe> :D
[23:16] <hehehe> I can help a bit
[23:38] <drab> sarnold: drat indeed, story of my life, I even tried that as a nick but it was taken :P
[23:38] <sarnold> lol
[23:40] <drab> but since I got http images working and figured out I could run ssh inside /target I'm really happy with it
[23:40] <drab> the options now are endless and it's really zippy compared to tftp
[23:40] <drab> one day I'll have to bite the bullet and figure out EFI, but for now it
[23:40] <drab> 's ok


[05:20] <fabbione> morning guys
[05:27] <fabbione> buildd@sunfire:~/build$ sbuild -d feisty --comp=main gcc-4.1_4.1.1-18ubuntu1
[05:27] <fabbione> *** glibc detected *** ./pthread5.exe: corrupted double-linked list: 0x71700490 ***
[05:27] <fabbione> doko ^^^otherwise it builds fine
[09:23] <doko> fabbione: you did not run the testsuite in parallel, did you?
[09:24] <fabbione> doko: i just builded the package as you did it..
[09:24] <fabbione> dpkg-build...
[09:24] <fabbione> so if it's set to run in parallel then yes
[09:25] <fabbione> ld.so.1 (pid 7864): Privileged operation (code 10) at 401bc127
[09:25] <fabbione> ld.so.1 (pid 9413): Protection id trap (code 7) at 400016a3
[09:25] <fabbione> ld.so.1(9618): unaligned access to 0x00010ae6 at ip=0x4010ce0b
[09:25] <fabbione> ld.so.1(10034): unaligned access to 0x00013736 at ip=0x4010b6ff
[09:25] <fabbione> ld.so.1(10718): unaligned access to 0x00010b06 at ip=0x4010ce0b
[09:26] <fabbione> MEH
[09:26] <fabbione> this can't be good
[09:37] <doko> which package?
[09:38] <fabbione> glibc-2.5 (hppa)
[09:38] <fabbione> anyway.. let's talk about sparc and 128 bits
[09:39] <fabbione> i just finished the second build of glibc-2.5 with newer gcc
[09:39] <fabbione> ls still works :)
[09:39] <fabbione> i am going to open the gates once i have the chroots ready
[09:54] <fabbione> gates are open
[10:33] <fabbione> libc6_2.5-0ubuntu1_hppa.deb
[10:33] <fabbione> whooopa
[10:36] <fabbione> ok we are getting tons of non fatal unalligned access with 2.5
[10:44] <fabbione> we have the fix for ppc kernel
[11:06] <cjwatson> argh, Ben's udeb changes are crack
[11:08] <fabbione> cjwatson: i told him.. he was going to talk to you at UDS
[11:10] <cjwatson> I've mailed him
[11:10] <cjwatson> I don't care about the storage stuff, but the filesystem changes will break things
[11:11] <cjwatson> newed, anyway
[11:11] <fabbione> nah pointless again :)
[11:11] <fabbione> it's still broken on ppc and sparc
[11:11] <fabbione> it seems that the changes got lost somehow
[11:12] <cjwatson> perhaps pointless, but harmless. :)
[11:12] <cjwatson> and I don't like excess stuff stuck in new
[02:46] <jbailey> doko: Around?
[02:46] <doko> jbailey, fabbione, cjwatson, lamont: ping
[02:46] <doko> jbailey: yes :)
[02:46] <fabbione> doko: pongish
[02:46] <jbailey> =)
[02:46] <fabbione> i need 2 minutes break.. absolutely.. brb
[02:49] <cjwatson> doko: yes?
[02:49] <doko> about the ABI change on powerpc and sparc: long double changing from 64bit to 128bit
[02:50] <doko> glibc and libstdc++ are the only libs having both support for 64 and 128 long doubles
[02:51] <doko> how should we handle other libraries using long double datatypes in their interfaces?
[02:51] <doko> - rename the library packages
[02:51] <fabbione> re
[02:52] <doko> - do nothing (minor ABI breakagae on some archs), and rebuild the archive
[02:52] <fabbione> doko: do you have a list of packages affected?
[02:53] <doko> http://people.ubuntu.com/~doko/ldbl/  (these are all packages with a long[ _] *double string in their header files
[02:53] <fabbione> eh
[02:54] <cjwatson> I don't see that in http://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-4.2/changes.html
[02:54] <cjwatson> is this an undocumented ABI change or something?
[02:54] <cjwatson> oww, that's a lot of packages in main
[02:55] <fabbione> hold on.. those are headers.. what about stuff that B-D on those headers?
[02:55] <doko> fabbione: right, that's the next step ...
[02:55] <jbailey> doko: I'm confused.  The ldbl change is supposed to be ABI-neutral, no rebuild needed.
[02:56] <jbailey> doko: I thought we'd shown that the old symbols got provided?
[02:56] <doko> cjwatson: 4.2 is not yet released; these are backports from the fc 4.1 branch
[02:57] <cjwatson> if it's supposed to be ABI-neutral, and isn't, then that seems like a bug, and can we unbackport those changes? :P
[02:57] <doko> jbailey: yes for libc and libstdc++; but what about rebuilding a library libfoo and packages depinding on that library?
[02:58] <doko> depending even
[02:58] <jbailey> cjwatson: It's usually better to suck it up and follow upstream to be safe.
[02:58] <fabbione> this is going to be another clusterfuck.. i feel  it
[02:59] <jbailey> doko: Yeah, dunno.  I haven't followed all the header magic in that.  I don't know if there was some sort of compat macros or whatever that twiddled it transparently.
[03:00] <cjwatson> jbailey: if renaming lots of libraries is involved, I'd rather have some time to consider that rather than being forced to do it immediately
[03:00] <cjwatson> jbailey: especially if it might be a bug that gets fixed so we have to unrename everything later!
[03:01] <doko> jbailey: what does header magic solve for libraries which don't support both?
[03:01] <fabbione> cjwatson: it really depends on how soon you want to open feisty
[03:01] <fabbione> if there is really an ABI breakage we better deal with it before
[03:01] <fabbione> rather than later and collecting pieces with tons of uploads
[03:01] <cjwatson> isn't this a specs file thing?
[03:01] <cjwatson> -mlong-double-128
[03:01] <cjwatson> fabbione: I would like to have it open before UDS
[03:02] <fabbione> cjwatson: toolchain is not ready yet.. it's likely we can make it for UDS, but for example ppc is now stalling on elmo to install a new kernel on buildd and he is not around today.
[03:02] <jbailey> doko: Magic headers in the type definition, is what I'm thinking.
[03:02] <doko> see http://gcc.gnu.org/PR25864 for the detauls
[03:03] <doko> can't type anymore
[03:03] <fabbione> doko: could you before ? ;)
[03:05] <cjwatson> how practical is it likely to be to provide _Q_ functions in other affected libraries?
[03:05] <cjwatson> I'm not happy with a flag-day renaming of a bunch of libraries in main and all the upgrade pain that entails for the sake of two architectures, really
[03:06] <cjwatson> _Q_> or whatever the compatibility symbols are called
[03:06] <fabbione> cjwatson: what scares me is that we might trip in runtime errors during upgrades if we change ABI without renaming packages
[03:07] <fabbione> or een using upgrader itself that's written in python and python is one of those affected pkgs
[03:07] <cjwatson> if it's possible to provide compatibility symbols for both ABIs, that would solve that problem
[03:07] <doko> fabbione: there are not many extensions actually using long double
[03:08] <fabbione> cjwatson: right.. assuming we can
[03:08] <cjwatson> if it's doable in libc ...
[03:09] <fabbione> doko: can you write me a test case that will trip in that problem?
[03:09] <doko> cjwatson: what would that solve? having a "long double foo (long double)" function in libfoo, we would need to have these symbols in libfoo
[03:12] <cjwatson> EPARSE
[03:12] <fabbione> and i guess massive patching is not an option for the sake of 2 arches
[03:13] <cjwatson> library renaming that Debian isn't going to do for ages yet (given the etch freeze) counts as "massive patching"
[03:13] <cjwatson> I'd actually be happier with a bunch of library patches ...
[03:14] <fabbione> cjwatson: hmmm massive code patching is more dangerous IMHO
[03:14] <fabbione> hi mdz
[03:14] <mdz> morning
[03:15] <cjwatson> doko: glibc clearly has code that uses the old-style long double type somehow
[03:15] <doko> cjwatson: "some arches" = sparc, sparc64, powerpc, powerpc64, s390, s390x, alpha
[03:16] <jbailey> cjwatson: glibc handles it by not actually using the real function names.
[03:16] <cjwatson> doko: i.e. powerpc and sparc from our point of view
[03:16] <jbailey> cjwatson: When you call open, it gets mapped to<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[03:16] <fabbione> doko: for us is still sparc and ppc only
[03:16] <doko> cjwatson: no, it provides functions handling both the old and new data types
[03:16] <cjwatson> doko: yes, that's what I said
[03:16] <jbailey> cjwatson: They change symbol version for the new ABI.
[03:17] <cjwatson> jbailey: right, I know that, but the new glibc still builds the old<EMAIL_ADDRESS>code with the current gcc
[03:17] <jbailey> Right.  I'm guessing that they still have a compat type sitting around that they use.  I don't know off hand.
[03:18] <cjwatson> yep, and if that compatibility type can be / is exported, it would not be that hard to make other libraries support both old and new ABIs
[03:18] <fabbione> ok.. is there any way i can have a test case?
[03:18] <fabbione> doko: ^^
[03:18] <fabbione> i have almost done rebuild edgy on top of feisty toolchain on sparc
[03:18] <fabbione> and i can test
[03:18] <fabbione> but i want test cases
[03:18] <fabbione> that should tell us if we need to do something fancy or not
[03:18] <cjwatson> also assuming that it's possible to call the GLIBC_2.4 code directly
[03:19] <cjwatson> (or do exceedingly cunning linker tricks to make that happen automatically for some objects)
[03:19] <fabbione> ROFL
[03:19] <cjwatson> fabbione: one of my concerns is that we have no established mechanism for ABI changes in perl and python
[03:20] <infinity> Speaking of ABI changes...
[03:20] <cjwatson> fabbione: I don't particularly want to establish one in a hurry (or at all, if we can get away with it)
[03:20] <fabbione> cjwatson: that's why i need a test case :)
[03:20] <fabbione> cjwatson:  i can test with old and new stuff
[03:20] <infinity> jbailey: Is glibc/hppa still going to give us a broken ABI, and should I whip up a clever script to find every package that's not changed since dapper, so I can make sure they get rebuilt? :)
[03:20] <fabbione> infinity: hppa will be rebuilt in full.. no matter :)
[03:21] <fabbione> infinity: we lost an entire release
[03:21] <infinity> fabbione: Yes, hence the "find things that haven't changed since dapper".
[03:21] <infinity> fabbione: We still ship packages that haven't changed since warty, you know.
[03:21] <fabbione> i don't think there is something left :)
[03:21] <fabbione> infinity: probably because nobody uses them ...
[03:21] <infinity> Some just don't need updates. :)
[03:21] <fabbione> exactly :)
[03:21] <cjwatson> $ ./suite-diff.py ubuntu/dists/warty/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz ubuntu/dists/edgy/main/binary-i386/Packages.gz eq | wc -l
[03:22] <cjwatson> 28
[03:22] <infinity> I maintain one that hasn't changed since dapper. *shrug*
[03:22] <cjwatson> $ ./suite-diff.py ubuntu/dists/warty/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz ubuntu/dists/edgy/universe/binary-i386/Packages.gz eq | wc -l
[03:22] <cjwatson> 806
[03:22] <infinity> cjwatson: I see I'm not the first person to want this statistic. :)
[03:22] <infinity> Anyohw, 28/806 is very workable.  Cool.
[03:23] <jbailey> infinity: Totally changed thread ABI.
[03:23] <cjwatson> I use suite-diff more for ge, gt, le, lt comparisons, but eq is occasionally handy and was trivial to implement
[03:23] <infinity> And main's all I care about initially anyway.
[03:23] <cjwatson> infinity: one sec and I'll give you dapper->edgy figures
[03:24] <infinity> jbailey: Right, so after bootstrapping the toolchain, I'll want to rebuild everything in {Build-,}Essential, and then move up the chain.  Fun.
[03:24] <infinity> cjwatson: Oh, that was warty.  I wasn't paying attention.
[03:24] <jbailey> infinity: It's an interesting experiment to see how ugly a bootstrap is these days.
[03:24] <cjwatson> infinity: counting by source package:
[03:24] <cjwatson> main: 478
[03:24] <cjwatson> restricted: 1
[03:24] <cjwatson> universe: 3885
[03:24] <cjwatson> multiverse: 258
[03:24] <infinity> jbailey: Shouldn't be too bad, and for all that I complain about them, the hppa buildds are still pretty quick.
[03:25] <cjwatson> feel free to go "dear god" now
[03:25] <infinity> cjwatson: Those figures sound more correct anyway. :)
[03:25] <infinity> edgy's short cycle didn't help there.
[03:26] <infinity> We might get those numbers down just with the initial round of merge/sync madness.
[03:27] <infinity> But, whatever.  Worst case, I just do a mess of rebuild uploads.  Serves a dual purpose of fixing hppa, and getting the rest of the arches built against a modern toolchain.
[03:27] <infinity> hppa's simple, just time-consuming.
[03:27] <infinity> This long double thing sounds far more icky.
[03:27] <fabbione> infinity: hppa is a pain at the moment.. second round of glibc build will fail but we have our super-Jeff on it
[03:28] <infinity> Oh, it's not self-hosting yet?  Fun.
[03:28] <fabbione> infinity: and you really want to take the debs i did build to get to gcc B-D
[03:28] <fabbione> infinity: yes.. it's a header issue that shows up only at the second rebuild
[03:28] <infinity> fabbione: Yeah, I'll use your bootstrap stuff, thanks.  It'll be several rebuilds before I get to the final archive debs anyway, so I don't mind the taint.
[03:29] <fabbione> infinity: i know, they are just useful.. it's building gcc for feisty now.. that will come handy too
[03:29] <fabbione> doko: ok.. so what is your suggestion on how to handle this ABI breakage+
[03:29] <fabbione> ?
[03:29] <infinity> I suspect I won't fully open hppa until I get back from UDS and have my 6750 powered on anyway.
[03:30] <infinity> But the primary arches should, ideally, be opened in the next two or three days, if we can at all manage.
[03:30] <fabbione> infinity: or we can play with it together.. i have console on mine
[03:30] <fabbione> and your has also remote power capabilities.. that's even better
[03:30] <fabbione> ok should we do a summary before my wife will kill me?
[03:30] <infinity> fabbione: Well, I'll have a console on mine as soon as I've visited a Frys in SF and bought a USB->Serial dongle. :)
[03:30] <fabbione> (i was supposed to be out of the office 2 hours ago)
[03:31] <fabbione> i think i386/amd64 are fine.. at least so it seems
[03:31] <infinity> fabbione: And yeah, the DC ones have remote power that I can mangle from anywhere, which is rather handy in light of the hppa kernel's... Oddities.
[03:31] <fabbione> infinity: i am not running .19 kernel.. only dapper kernels
[03:31] <fabbione> ppc needs a new kernel. the patch is in pitti/elmo hands
[03:31] <doko> fabbione: last time we had an arch specific ABI change on sparc in unstable, we didn't do anything
[03:32] <fabbione> sparc/ppc have the ABI issue
[03:32] <fabbione> ia64 looks good
[03:32] <fabbione> hppa whatever...
[03:32] <cjwatson> doko: powerpc is first-class and released; IIRC last time sparc wasn't
[03:32] <fabbione> sparc is released now and first-class on enterprise servers
[03:32] <infinity> doko: Is this the sort of ABI breakage that will royally mess up upgrades (ie: postinst scripts dying and the like)?  If so, "just ignoring it" isn't going to cut it.
[03:33] <cjwatson> if it stands a decent chance of not breaking during upgrades (and that sounds plausible; do upgrades really require serious floating-point code?), then ignoring it is an option I'd certainly consider
[03:33] <infinity> Yeah, that's the point I was driving at.
[03:33] <infinity> Unlike Debian, we don't really pretend to support partial upgrades.
[03:33] <fabbione> cjwatson: i can test scenario too
[03:33] <cjwatson> thought I'd emphasise it the other way round. :-)
[03:34] <infinity> So, I'm cool with "once your upgrade has settled, you'll be okay"... If the upgrade can go smoothly.
[03:34] <fabbione> but i need a couple of more days to get there
[03:34] <fabbione> otherwise somebody needs to ship me another T2000 and i could run 64 buildd
[03:34] <cjwatson> infinity: and if we can figure out how to do compatibility code for this, we could do that just for libraries that break during upgrade, if any
[03:34] <infinity> fabbione: You have enough toys.. Share with the class. :P
[03:34] <fabbione> infinity: ehhe
[03:35] <infinity> cjwatson: Fair point.
[03:35] <fabbione> cjwatson: that's even scarier..
[03:35] <fabbione> but well whatever
[03:36] <fabbione> infinity: can you get Ben to upload a working kernel today?
[03:36] <doko> right, that was my thinking. there shouldn't be too much code (if any) which needs floating point arithmetics in installation/removal
[03:36] <cjwatson> fabbione: surely it's less scary
[03:36] <infinity> fabbione: I tried that yesterday. :)
[03:36] <cjwatson> given that it involves less work and less code
[03:36] <infinity> (But yes, I'll try again)
[03:36] <fabbione> infinity: try harder? ;)
[03:36] <fabbione> jbailey: is binutils ok for you to upload or does it need more?
[03:36] <fabbione> doko: did you review binutils?
[03:37] <doko> fabbione: yes, looks fine to me
[03:37] <doko> jbailey: ^^^
[03:37] <fabbione> i know we lack a patch for hppa that miscompile the kernel, but we CAN live with an unbootable hppa kerenl for bootstrapping
[03:37] <jbailey> fabbione: I'm happy with it from ppc/ppc64/hppa tests.  I haven't looked at i386/amd64.  Given that it's HJ, I suspect those and ia64 are pretty guaranteed.
[03:37] <jbailey> fabbione: Yes, that's fine.
[03:37] <fabbione> jbailey: ok.
[03:37] <infinity> Unbottable hppa kernels don't matter to me right now.
[03:37] <fabbione> infinity: neither for me
[03:37] <fabbione> jbailey: what about glibc debian/patches?
[03:38] <infinity> If you guys are happy with binutils, toss it in the queue SVP.
[03:38] <fabbione> should we go with what we have and review later?
[03:38] <jbailey> fabbione: I want to commit what I've got in there.  The Debian patches cause one of the tests to segfault.
[03:38] <fabbione> jbailey: ok.
[03:38] <jbailey> (yay debian)
[03:38] <fabbione> jbailey, doko: i am going to upload binutils then.
[03:38] <fabbione> i did check the testsuite with .17 and .19 hreaders
[03:38] <fabbione> there is no difference
[03:38] <fabbione> so it doesn't matter to wait for the new kernel
[03:39] <jbailey> Cool.  I'm happy to see binutils go in.
[03:39] <jbailey> fabbione: You're putting in the same one that I put into bzr?
[03:39] <infinity> And binutils passes its testsuite with no regressions regardless of whether it's built against edgy or feisty?
[03:39] <fabbione> jbailey: yes and the same orig
[03:39] <infinity> (ie: Can I build it now, now, now?)
[03:39] <fabbione> infinity: yes it can build now now
[03:40] <infinity> \o/
[03:40] <jbailey> fabbione: Do you know any timeframe for the kernel patch going in for ppc?
[03:40] <infinity> jbailey: Being applied on the buildds, you mean?
[03:40] <fabbione> jbailey: i guess tomorrow... elmo is not around today
[03:40] <fabbione> infinity: yes
[03:40] <jbailey> fabbione: I have Angie's ultrasound midday today, but I'd like to beat on this when I'm back to get that patches directory in shape.
[03:40] <infinity> I can get Znarl to do it.
[03:40] <jbailey> Lovely, so there's no pressure for today for glibc going in.
[03:40] <infinity> Oh, unless you want the breathing room.
[03:40] <infinity> Then I'll, uhm, not get Znarl to do it.
[03:41] <fabbione> infinity: i have the patch and i can send it to Znarl, but we still need to jump to edgy .17
[03:41] <fabbione> infinity:  i didn't test the patch on dapper yet
[03:41] <infinity> Should apply to .15 without terrible issues, I'd suspect.
[03:42] <infinity> On the other hand, we wanted the PPC buildds upgraded to edgy kernel source for other reasons.
[03:42] <fabbione> yes it might apply but it's not tested and you don't want to DoS the buildd.. do you?
[03:42] <infinity> Some sketchy build failures that were kernel-releated.
[03:42] <infinity> related, too.
[03:44] <fabbione> infinity: well elmo will have to speed that up a lot
[03:44] <infinity> I've got a laundry list of things to talk to elmo about, so I'll make sure this gets done.
[03:44] <infinity> (Still have some sketchiness on jackass to deal with, which takes priority, but only barely)
[03:45] <fabbione> infinity: he has the patch in an email
[03:45] <infinity> I know, you CC'd me, remember? :)
[03:45] <fabbione> infinity: i did? ok
[03:46] <infinity> Oh, looks like the buildds went to edgy kernels when I wasn't looking anyway.
[03:46] <fabbione> no i didn't
[03:46] <infinity> That makes life easier.
[03:46] <fabbione> binutils on the way
[03:46] <fabbione> jbailey: does bzr support tagging?
[03:46] <fabbione> no it doesn't
[03:46] <jbailey> fabbione: I remember there was a spec for it, dunno where that got to.
[03:46] <fabbione> jbailey: ok...
[03:46] <infinity> fabbione: "local DoS fix for ppc", sent to elmo, CCd to pitti and I.
[03:46] <jbailey> j-a-meinal will be on in an hour or so usually, we can ask him.
[03:46] <fabbione> infinity: BenC is around!
[03:46] <infinity> fabbione: Your memory's failing in your old age. :)
[03:47] <jbailey> infinity: Why not the RT queue so that one of the other sysadmins can deal with it?
[03:47] <fabbione> infinity: screw you old boy!   Will wait.
[03:49] <fabbione> and the build won't finish
[03:49] <fabbione> it's pointless
[03:50] <jbailey> infinity: reboot -f works, too. =)
[03:50] <jbailey> fabbione: I never reproduced machine death.
[03:50] <fabbione> jbailey: i did
[03:50] <jbailey> Just the Hallowe'en drama of things running around yelling "GRAAAAIIIIINNNNSSSS...."
[03:51] <fabbione> This upload awaits approval by a distro manager
[03:51] <fabbione> infinity: ^
[03:51] <infinity> fabbione: Yes dear. :)
[03:51] <fabbione> slacker! do you want to accept the upload?
[03:51] <fabbione> i got this email more than 60 secs ago! :P
[03:51] <infinity> I'm on it, I'm on it.
[03:51] <infinity> Punk.
[03:51] <fabbione> you are getting slow.. must be the age
[03:51] <fabbione> MUHHAHAHA
[03:51] <infinity> No, it's the latency.
[03:52] <fabbione> yeah between fingers and eyes
[03:52] <jbailey> fabbione: Bah..  When *I* was young...
[03:52] <infinity> Takes 12 minutes to do an SSH handshake between .au and the DC.
[03:52] <jbailey> infinity: Throw *out* the m68k, dude. =)
[03:52] <fabbione> jbailey: speaking of which.. congratulation.. your bday was yesterday?
[03:52] <jbailey> fabbione: Yeah, thanks.
[03:52] <infinity> jbailey: *grin*
[03:53] <fabbione> there.. i guess we are all set.. more or less
[03:53] <infinity> Getting there.
[03:53] <fabbione> infinity: yeah...
[03:54] <fabbione> jbailey: ok.. i will be back later this evening...
[03:54] <fabbione> jbailey: so we can look again at glibc
[03:54] <fabbione> doko: are you ready to upload gcc?
[03:54] <jbailey> fabbione: 'kay.  I'll try to run the glibc stuff today over the day, but will focus on it tongiht.
[03:54] <jbailey> I'll also get some more hppa love going.
[03:54] <jbailey> I've just sent a final "we're doing this, any questions?" email to the parisc list.
[03:54] <fabbione> jbailey: ok. your tonight is my deep night... should i shift working hours?
[03:55] <jbailey> Nope, there's not much to share except scrolling consoles.
[03:55] <fabbione> i don't mind it at all.. i just need to know so that we can work closer
[03:55] <fabbione> ok
[03:55] <fabbione> we can still share the orgasms on each line text
[03:55] <jbailey> fabbione: More useful to have you work when I'm asleep for a final test with goal of upload tomorrow.
[03:55] <fabbione> jbailey: ok perfect works for me
[03:55] <fabbione> by tomorrow i should have enough sparc debs to do some kind of tests
[03:56] <fabbione> ok dok
[03:56] <fabbione> oky doky
[03:56] <fabbione> i am off
[03:56] <infinity> fabbione: Did you forward that ppc fix to BenC too, for inclusion in edgy-updates?
[03:56] <fabbione> infinity: i think i did?
[03:56] <fabbione> infinity: wasn't he in the email?
[03:56] <infinity> Not in the same email you sent me.
[03:56] <jbailey> fabbione: I'd imagine benh will submit it for the . release, won't he?
[03:57] <fabbione> infinity: ok. i will talk to him once benh gives me the greenlight for stable release
[03:57] <fabbione> jbailey: yes i am sure he will
[03:57] <infinity> Kay.
[03:57] <fabbione> infinity: there are 2 solutions to that problem.. really
[03:57] <fabbione> one is the patch
[03:57] <fabbione> and one is to disable a couple of syscalls in the kernel
[03:57] <doko> fabbione: davis:~doko/gcc/4.1/tst/
[03:58] <fabbione> doko: what's that?
[03:58] <fabbione> doko: ok thanks.
[04:00] <fabbione> later guys
[04:00] <fabbione> infinity: and yes.. even pigs can fly given enough thrust
[04:01] <infinity> It's not nice to talk about my mother that way.
[04:01] <jbailey> And with the image of FAbio thrusting a pig...  Off to the office I go.
[04:02] <fabbione> infinity: i miss the association with your mother... if it's there for some reasons it was REALLY not meant
[10:06] <fabbione> doko: i did build that test case on edgy and it segfaults
[10:06] <fabbione> doko: should i try on feisty and it should work.. right?
[10:06] <fabbione> or the other way around?
[10:10] <fabbione> doko: it segfaults also when built with feisty toolchain
[11:57] <jbailey> doko: There are libgcc-compat patches in here to expose some extra symbols.  I wonder if they actually matter to anyone.
[11:57] <jbailey> They're old versions, so nothing new will build with them.
[12:00] <doko> jbailey: disconnected, maybe I did miss something?
[12:02] <jbailey> doko: No, sorry.  I started mid-thought.
[12:02] <jbailey> I'm reviewing all of the glibc patches again.
[12:02] <jbailey> glibc for awhile leaked some libgcc symbols directly.
[12:03] <jbailey> When Jakub fixed up glibc to not leak stray things, he removed these, but we brought them back.
[12:03] <jbailey> Sadly, there's no explanation *why* we did this, and I was wondering if we should maybe not do so.
[12:03] <jbailey> Not important for right now, but probably something to look at for feisty+1
[12:04] <jbailey> But it might be nice to start stripping out some of these patches.
[12:05] <doko> ok
[12:06] <doko> jbailey: I'm not opposed to a feisty+1 toolchain roadmap, but I think we can do better than the edgy+1 roadmap; we should discuss this next week.
[12:07] <jbailey> I don't think we booked a bof for it. =)


[00:50] <OvenWerks> zequence: when does the LTS daily ISO start to appear?
[07:44] <zequence> OvenWerks: It is built daily, just like a development release. Latest updates. Once we get to 14.04.1, it freezes and is tested.
[10:28] <zequence> elfy: Did you read the post in our devel list about testing?
[11:57] <elfy> zequence: I didn't - sorry - must have missed it - I'll reply later today when I'm back from work properly
[12:25] <zequence> elfy: No hurry at all. Just wanted to make sure you didn't miss it
[12:28] <elfy> yep - I've read it now - there's a bunch of stuff that I'd want to reply with - but if you want to start ball rolling with anything - yes I'm cool with QA lead for at least this cycle - if you want I can talk to Nick Skaggs re tracker etc, but I suspect I will need to be in a studio LP team to make that work (not sure)
[12:28] <elfy> off to work again - bbl
[12:31] <zequence> elfy: Anything you need.
[13:22] <ethermonk> oh wow
[17:16] <elfy> zequence: I sent a mail to the list now :)
[19:06] <zequence> elfy: Great. I'll respond tomorrow probably. Need to look more into the ubuntu QA part of it.
[19:20] <elfy> zequence: did what I said make sense?
[19:21] <elfy> when I login to the package tracker - I do so as a member of ubuntu-testcase and xubuntu-release
[19:22] <elfy> it might be that there needs to be an LP team that has access to the tracker admin side - balloons will know
[19:29] <zequence> elfy: I think so, yes. It's the same with the qa iso thing
[19:29] <zequence> We have ubuntustudio-release team for that
[19:30] <elfy> yea - it will be the same team
[19:43] <zequence> elfy: Ok. Good. i'll have a look tomorrow on that, and get back to you.
[19:44] <elfy> ok
[19:44] <elfy> zequence: to be frank - this is mostly going to work or not work depending on how many people are willing to pitch in
[19:47] <elfy> there's been a couple of people pitch up on the m/l looking for something to do - if they've not got specific skills - perhaps point them in testing/testcase directions
[20:18] <zequence> elfy: That's what I'm thinking too. Good way to learn how development works
[20:19] <zequence> elfy: Unfortunately, very few of the people who want to help actually end up doing so.
[20:19] <elfy> I know that one well ;)
[20:19] <elfy> during the last cycle - we had 40 people testing (both packages and images)
[20:20] <elfy> we've a lot more on the m/l
[20:20] <zequence> elfy: In either case, i will make sure we at least have the infrastructure for it this cycle
[20:20] <elfy> yep
[20:20] <elfy> I'm fairly positive that if nothing else it's going to be further forwards than it is now :)


[02:04] <jono> hi all
[02:30] <jono> anyone around?
[02:36] <highvoltage> BOO!
[02:37] <highvoltage> hmmm... usually that works
[02:37] <highvoltage> jono: at least I tried :)
[02:37] <jono> heh
[02:40] <jono> Seveas, Burgundavia ping
[03:48] <Seveas> jono, ?
[03:48] <jono> Seveas, its ok, its sorted :)
[03:48] <Seveas> ok


[12:42] <thafreak> morning Ohio
[12:44] <MaskedDriver> morning thafreak
[13:03] <yano> good morning
[13:20] <andygraybeal> heya
[13:40] <thafreak> and now there were 4
[13:41] <thafreak> just because django is really easy to use, doesn't mean it can't also be used to make VERY confusing code
[13:44] <canthus13> ...anything can be used to make very confusing code.
[13:45] <thafreak> even the chat log of canthus13?
[13:46] <MaskedDriver> that's the most confusing of all, I suppose
[13:46] <canthus13> :)
[13:51] <thafreak> so what's new Ohio...what's everyone been looking up on the internet lately...besides pr0n obviously
[13:53] <thafreak> I know canthus13 has been researching whitty comebacks and one liners
[13:53] <canthus13> creepy pr0n.
[13:54] <thafreak> oh like on /b?
[13:54] <canthus13> nah. /b/ is tame.
[13:54] <thafreak> wow
[13:54] <canthus13> Heh.
[13:54] <thafreak> not sure i'd want to see what makes /b tame actually...
[13:54]  * canthus13 is getting everything ready for Ragnarok, actually.
[13:54] <thafreak> when is that scheduled for?
[13:55] <canthus13> next week.
[13:55]  * canthus13 is only doing friday and saturday, though.
[13:57] <thafreak> wait...how do you only do 2 days of the end of the world? isn't it kind of all or nothing?
[13:58] <canthus13> Nah.
[13:59] <canthus13> It happens every year. :D
[13:59] <canthus13> http://www.dagorhirragnarok.com/
[13:59]  * canthus13 is gonna go pound on people with foam swords.
[13:59] <thafreak> OMG...i want to hunt down these robo calling douchebags, and stab them in the eye sockets
[14:00] <canthus13> Although I have to say that's one of the poorer web designs I've seen in a long time. :/
[14:00] <canthus13> Anyway. Off to shower and head to work.
[14:00] <thafreak> wow, 1998 called...they want their web design back
[14:02] <MaskedDriver> hahahaha!!!
[14:02] <MaskedDriver> hey, they use javascript
[14:02] <MaskedDriver> thereare no pages, it scrolls
[14:02] <thafreak> anyone have any irc bot recomendations?
[14:03] <MaskedDriver> for what purpose?
[14:03] <thafreak> yeah...that was also done in the late 90's
[14:03] <MaskedDriver> nuuuu
[14:03] <MaskedDriver> lol
[14:03] <MaskedDriver> and I use supybot in my channel
[14:03] <thafreak> i need an irc bot mainly for channel logging
[14:04] <thafreak> and hopefully find one that can replay chat log history when some one joins
[14:04] <MaskedDriver> I don't have supybot do any logs, but I think it does
[14:04] <MaskedDriver> http://sourceforge.net/projects/supybot/
[14:05] <thafreak> yeah, i was looking at that one actually...it does have a logging plugin
[14:05] <thafreak> didn't see if there was one to do replaying of logs though
[14:06] <MaskedDriver> not sure
[14:06] <MaskedDriver> the documentation inside the tar is pretty solid though
[14:06] <thafreak> probably could write my own plugin i guess
[14:06] <MaskedDriver> and installation is a breeze
[14:06] <MaskedDriver> I had it installed and in my channel within 15 minutes
[16:52] <MaskedDriver> paultag: how do you feel about django static files?
[16:57] <paultag> MaskedDriver: fine, why? You never serve through django, though
[16:59] <MaskedDriver> rick wanted me to ask
[16:59] <paultag> MaskedDriver: so:
[17:00] <MaskedDriver>  just ask him how he feels about django static files, I can't help but think even django fans have to know this is BS
[17:00] <paultag> MaskedDriver: the way it works is, use static for testing via django. Once you push to prod, change the static url in the settings to point to static.domain.tld, and host that via nginx and a proxy cache
[17:00] <MaskedDriver> MaskedDriver: you do in dev, then have to do magic command BS in production
[17:00] <MaskedDriver> [13:00] <rick_h> and there's only 15 ways to setup dev/etc routes for static...ugh
[17:00] <paultag> yeah, let me give him mine
[17:00] <paultag> for dev I do:
[17:00] <paultag>  34 STATICFILES_DIRS = (
[17:01] <paultag>  35     os.path.join(PROJECT_ROOT, 'static'),
[17:01] <paultag>  36 )
[17:01] <paultag>  32 STATIC_URL = '/static/'
[17:01] <paultag>  31 STATIC_ROOT = ''
[17:01] <paultag> then in production:
[17:01] <paultag> STATIC_ROOT = ''
[17:01] <paultag> STATIC_URL = 'http://static.pault.ag/pique/'
[17:02] <paultag> with an nginx rule where I symlink the pique to static in the django app out my static dir
[17:02] <MaskedDriver> [13:03] <rick_h> yea, ask him if he's using django.contrib.staticfiles or django.conf.urls.static or django.views.static...
[17:03] <paultag>
[17:03] <paultag>  38     'django.contrib.staticfiles.finders.FileSystemFinder',
[17:03] <paultag>  39     'django.contrib.staticfiles.finders.AppDirectoriesFinder',
[17:03] <paultag>  65     'django.contrib.staticfiles',
[17:04] <paultag> sorry, django.contrib.staticfiles *
[17:04] <paultag> those were the finders up top
[17:05] <MaskedDriver> ok
[17:05] <MaskedDriver> thanks.. think that will help him along the way
[17:05] <paultag> jep
[17:05] <MaskedDriver> what are your thoughts on the dvorak keyboard layout? you use it?
[17:06] <paultag> one sec, eating :)
[17:06] <MaskedDriver> lol np
[17:06] <MaskedDriver> I should get back to work -- all of this intermediary between you and rick takes a lot of productivity out of my day ;)
[17:06] <paultag> :)
[17:07] <paultag> MaskedDriver: you and  him are welcome in #whube
[17:07] <paultag> my hangout / offtopic
[17:08] <paultag> OK, I'm alive
[23:55] <jandrusk> At Happy Dog for Cleveland Linux User Group. Good turnout.


[00:19] <No1x3r0> How can I get keyboard working in Xubuntu?
[00:41] <tomreyn> No1x3r0: do a bios update first of all
[00:41] <No1x3r0> tomreyn already did
[00:41] <tomreyn> sorry to hear this :-/
[00:42] <tomreyn> which hardware is this?
[00:42] <No1x3r0> ASUS ZenBook 14
[00:42] <tomreyn> does 20.04 LTS work?
[00:42] <No1x3r0> hadn't tried, can't imagine older working better than newer
[00:42] <No1x3r0> but I can give it a shot if you think it'll help
[00:43] <tomreyn> latest LTS is always worth a try
[00:43] <No1x3r0> oh wait, I remember I did try it
[00:43] <No1x3r0> cause I accidentally clicked it first since it was at the toop
[00:44] <No1x3r0> so same results
[00:44] <tomreyn> no keyboard there either?
[00:45] <No1x3r0> I don't remember testing the keyboard on it, all the rest appeared working but had boot errors so moved on, I'm going to redownload and try again
[00:45] <tomreyn> does the keyboard work on the bios configuration interface, though?
[00:49] <tomreyn> if you're running ubuntu (not sure about xubuntu) you can also run the "onboard" virtual keyboard from the menu ("dash")
[00:49] <No1x3r0> tomreyn yeah in firmware menus
[00:49] <tomreyn> there's a chance that this problem may go away after installation.
[00:50] <No1x3r0> not about to take the risk of chancing it
[00:50] <No1x3r0> flashing  LTS right now to test
[00:51] <tomreyn> the errors you got to see on your imgur screenshot are both related to the nvidia graphics card
[00:52] <tomreyn> oh waitthats wrong, i didn't read properly
[00:52] <tomreyn> so the first is about the wireless lan chipset, an acpi issue
[00:53] <tomreyn> then i8042 is about the keyboard most likely
[00:53] <No1x3r0> tomreyn, yeah don't experience those in other distros, so it may be a kernel issue
[00:53] <tomreyn> nouveau is the open source nvidia driver, which is not too great
[00:53] <No1x3r0> yeah kinda figured
[00:57] <No1x3r0> this etch is taking a while, guess I've worn out this thumb drive with so many tests
[00:58] <tomreyn> better double check that the data was actually properly written to it then
[00:59] <No1x3r0> tomreyn, getting  i8042  error so far
[00:59] <No1x3r0> still booting to test
[00:59] <No1x3r0> tomreyn it does, it does a verification check each time
[01:00] <No1x3r0> half way through progress on booting
[01:00] <tomreyn> that's not exactly as good as a byte compare, but maybe good enough
[01:00] <No1x3r0> it is a byte compare
[01:00] <tomreyn> yes, but not for all the bytes ;)
[01:01] <tomreyn> you could try booting with    acpi=off   !kernelparm if the wlan + keyboard problems persist.
[01:01] <No1x3r0> or just us a distro that works out of the box
[01:01] <No1x3r0> yeah same difference on 20.04 LTS
[01:02] <No1x3r0> no keyboard
[01:02] <tomreyn> !kernelparm
[01:03] <No1x3r0> tomreyn, yeah, thanks, I appreciate that, but I'd rather just move on to something that works
[01:03] <No1x3r0> I mean out of 3 releases it not working, don't wanna follow that rabbit
[01:04] <tomreyn> i doubt the root cause is the linux distro. not only but also because you mentioned there are similar problems with fedora. buti wish you luck either way.
[01:04] <No1x3r0> don't know it's kernel related though cause 21.10 is close to Fedora Beta 25
[01:05] <tomreyn> 21.10 is unreleased
[01:05] <No1x3r0> only the XFCE spin of fedora
[01:05] <No1x3r0> the keyboard works fine in the worksation (GNOME) version
[01:06] <tomreyn> so chances are that default ubuntu would work, too
[01:06] <No1x3r0> yeah, got 21.10 from https://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/ but also the kernel from 21.04 is close
[01:06] <No1x3r0> probably
[01:06] <tomreyn> !21.10
[01:06] <No1x3r0> but I want XFCE
[01:07] <No1x3r0> well this is October 2021 :D
[01:07] <tomreyn> it's still unrelased, and not supported, though
[01:08]  * No1x3r0 shrug
[01:08] <No1x3r0> someone asked and suggested it here
[01:08] <No1x3r0> I wouldn't have even bothered with it otherwise
[01:08] <No1x3r0> but either way, none of the 3 editions worked
[01:09] <No1x3r0> past, present, or future :P
[01:10] <tomreyn> bad / buggy firmware :-/
[01:12] <No1x3r0> don't think so, again worked with other distros and Windows 10 fine and it's Version 3 update
[01:13] <No1x3r0> no issues with Manjaro, Archcraft, Zorin, Windows 10
[01:14] <No1x3r0> also if it were a firmware issue wouldn't Fedora 25 beta workstation (GNOME) have errors and issues too? which it doesn't
[01:15] <tomreyn> i'm sure it does, maybe they were not as obvious
[01:15] <No1x3r0> keyboard works
[01:16] <No1x3r0> and things work in all of those mentioned
[01:17] <No1x3r0> but I will say POP and Mint are both very problematic; with POP not booting at all and Mint having no input control at all
[01:37] <No1x3r0> some light on the situation: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/ASUS_Zenbook_Q408UG
[06:20] <xu-irc36w> Hello to all! Please help me. Where i can find xubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.iso or xubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.iso.torrent?
[06:49] <No1x3r0> xu-irc36w http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/16.04/release/
[06:50] <No1x3r0> xu-irc36w 32 bit is i386
[06:52] <No1x3r0> As for my issue earlier, it may be similar to https://x-lore.kernel.org/linux-input/YRZ5a30XOKVjUWDG@fedora/
[07:03] <xu-irc36w> No1x3r0
[07:03] <xu-irc36w> Thank you, but i need xubuntu-16.04.1 - it have old kernel. xubuntu-16.04.6 have new version kernel and not support my old (2004) pentium computer.
[07:07] <No1x3r0> xu-irc36w found a torrent... http://www.pcds.fi/downloads/operatingsystem/ubuntubased/UBUNTU/archive/xubuntu/1604LTS/xubuntu.1604.html
[07:10] <xu-irc36w> Thank you, i hope this torrent contain original image of Xubuntu.
[07:11] <No1x3r0> xu-irc36w if not try: https://ia800808.us.archive.org/21/items/linuxtracker.org_p1/xubuntu-16.04.1-desktop-i386.iso
[07:13] <No1x3r0> xu-irc36w found from: https://ia800808.us.archive.org/21/items/linuxtracker.org_p1/
[07:17] <xu-irc36w> No1x3r0, thank you!
[07:18] <No1x3r0> xu-irc36w sure no problem, was just a quick google search
[14:51] <linuxfreezes> hello. i am having random hangs/freezes when using ubuntu on a 10 year old laptop with atom processor. this issue didnt occur on windows 7. any way to prevent the hangs/freezes?
[14:51] <linuxfreezes> i am using the 18.04 xubuntu LTS by the way
[14:59] <KBar> does it become totally unresponsive?
[15:00] <linuxfreezes> yes
[15:00] <linuxfreezes> only sshing from an android phone works to the laptop
[15:00] <linuxfreezes> and it can be rebooted with sudo reboot
[15:00] <KBar> does it happen right after booting up into de?
[15:00] <linuxfreezes> is there a way to restart xfwm4 on the laptop from a ssh client/android?
[15:00] <linuxfreezes> the freezes are intermittent
[15:00] <linuxfreezes> sometimes when opening the browser
[15:01] <linuxfreezes> sometimes on just starting
[15:01] <linuxfreezes> after a boot
[15:01] <linuxfreezes> i didnt figure out the actual cause
[15:01] <KBar> xfwm4 --replace is the command to restart the existing window manager
[15:01] <linuxfreezes> its an acer aspire one aod250 with atom processor
[15:01] <linuxfreezes> it doesnt start from a remote ssh session
[15:01] <linuxfreezes> says that display is not available or something
[15:02] <KBar> does it go away?
[15:02] <KBar> or once freezed, it stays like that for hours?
[15:02] <linuxfreezes> it stays permanently
[15:03] <linuxfreezes> and eventually ssh server stops working
[15:03] <linuxfreezes> and it has to be hard booted
[15:03] <linuxfreezes> so i reboot it when this issue occurs
[15:03] <KBar> is it a fresh install?
[15:04] <linuxfreezes> yes
[15:04] <linuxfreezes> a month ago
[15:04] <linuxfreezes> xubuntu 18.04 LTS
[15:05] <linuxfreezes> the freeze is intermittent, i havent figured out what is the cause
[15:05] <KBar> you might want to look at the processes
[15:05] <linuxfreezes> KBar is there a way to restart the xfwm4 from a terminal ssh session?
[15:05] <linuxfreezes> xfwm4 --replace doesnt work
[15:05] <KBar> im not familiar with ssh
[15:05] <KBar> sorry
[15:05] <linuxfreezes> gives a message that Display is not available
[15:06] <linuxfreezes> and as the GUI freezes i cannot open a terminal and type anything
[15:06] <linuxfreezes> so basically it stop
[15:06] <linuxfreezes> stops
[15:06] <KBar> but you can have some luck with magic sysrq key
[15:06] <linuxfreezes> sysrq?
[15:06] <linuxfreezes> any way to open the terminal from a key!
[15:06] <KBar> you dont need the terminal
[15:06] <KBar> wait a few minutes
[15:07] <linuxfreezes> the xfce terminal?
[15:09] <KBar> are you familiar with the concept of virtual consoles?
[15:11] <linuxfreezes> no. i do connect to it from ssh client though
[15:12] <linuxfreezes> i have tried sudo killall xfwm4 and sudo xfwm4 --replace
[15:12] <linuxfreezes> the later shows an error display not available or something like this
[15:12] <KBar> does it have the prtsc key?
[15:12] <linuxfreezes> hm it does
[15:13] <KBar> is it running rn?
[15:13] <linuxfreezes> pressed it, nothing is happening
[15:13] <krytarik> Btw, Xubuntu 18.04 is end-of-life since April this year and therefor not supported anymore (3 years vs 5 years for Ubuntu main).
[15:13] <KBar> dont press it just yet
[15:14] <KBar> is your laptop running?
[15:14] <linuxfreezes> hm. but a newer build will be more resource intensive when the laptop doesnt even run properly on an older build
[15:14] <linuxfreezes> now it is running okay
[15:14] <linuxfreezes> but freezes are intermittent
[15:14] <KBar> xubuntu is not resource intensive
[15:14] <KBar> anyway
[15:14] <linuxfreezes> and when it freezes it stops working
[15:14] <KBar> open the terminal
[15:14] <linuxfreezes> GUI becomes unusable
[15:14] <KBar> right now
[15:14] <linuxfreezes> hm its opening now
[15:15] <KBar> try sudo showkey
[15:15] <linuxfreezes> top shows 8.7 usage
[15:15] <KBar> enter your password
[15:15] <linuxfreezes> cpu
[15:15] <linuxfreezes> kb mode was ?UNKNOWN?
[15:16] <KBar> do as i say please
[15:16] <KBar> once again
[15:16] <KBar> run sudo showkey
[15:16] <KBar> when when "press any key" appears
[15:17] <KBar> press the prtsc button
[15:17] <KBar> it will show you the code of the button you just pressed
[15:17] <KBar> press only prtsc
[15:17] <KBar> no other button
[15:17] <linuxfreezes> ok
[15:17] <KBar> after 10 seconds
[15:17] <KBar> the program stops itself
[15:18] <KBar> but we need to know the code of prtsc for your laptop
[15:18] <KBar> keyboard
[15:18] <linuxfreezes> its saying 99 press
[15:18] <linuxfreezes> 99 release
[15:18] <KBar> awesome
[15:18] <linuxfreezes> something like this
[15:19] <KBar> means it can function as the sysrq key as well
[15:19] <linuxfreezes> ok
[15:19] <KBar> you can use the following technique to try to unfreeze the desktop
[15:19] <linuxfreezes> so when it freezes will pressing prntscreen bring the terminal?
[15:19] <KBar> no
[15:19] <KBar> dont get aheed of youself :)
[15:19] <KBar> ahead
[15:20] <linuxfreezes> it apparently brings the xfcer4-screenshooter :P
[15:20] <KBar> as it should
[15:20] <linuxfreezes> hm
[15:20] <KBar> i will teach you a useful magic trick. would you let me please?
[15:20] <linuxfreezes> sure, thanks a lot
[15:20] <KBar> great
[15:20] <KBar> 1 minute
[15:20] <linuxfreezes> i want the terminal to open when it freezes
[15:21] <linuxfreezes> so that it can be used
[15:21] <KBar> did the showkey program stop?
[15:21] <linuxfreezes> stopped now
[15:21] <KBar> did the shell return to the prompt?
[15:21] <linuxfreezes> yes it has
[15:21] <KBar> less /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
[15:21] <linuxfreezes> can you teach me to program it to bring the terminal
[15:21] <KBar> whats the number
[15:22] <KBar> you see
[15:22] <linuxfreezes> 176
[15:22] <KBar> is it a single-user system?
[15:22] <linuxfreezes> yes
[15:23] <KBar> nobody else can access it right?
[15:23] <linuxfreezes> yes, only the user ubuntu
[15:23] <KBar> we need to turn this 176 to 1, but it's a bit unsafe
[15:23] <KBar> no, i mean, is there someone else who can access the computer?
[15:23] <KBar> physically
[15:24] <linuxfreezes> no
[15:24] <KBar> great
[15:24] <KBar> this is what we're trying to do: https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/latest/admin-guide/sysrq.html
[15:24] <linuxfreezes> there is nothing that useful in the laptop, i am trying to make it stop freeze :P
[15:25] <KBar> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_SysRq_key
[15:25] <KBar> well, i dont know about stopping the freezes
[15:25] <KBar> but ill teach you oom-kill or safely reboot from a dead, unresponsive system
[15:25] <KBar> oom = out of memory
[15:25] <KBar> thats why they call it magic
[15:26] <linuxfreezes> hm i got it
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> so if 99 is the printscreen key
[15:27] <KBar> now
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> if i put 99 in this file, making alt+printscreen will bring the terminal?
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> :P
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> something like this, i guess?
[15:27] <KBar> no
[15:27] <KBar> !
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> hehe
[15:27] <KBar> please. just follow my steps
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> sure
[15:27] <linuxfreezes> please proceed
[15:28] <KBar> what's the content of /etc/sysctl.d/10-magic-sysrq.conf
[15:28] <KBar> ?
[15:28] <KBar> specifically last line
[15:28] <KBar> the value of kernel.sysrq = 1?
[15:28] <KBar> oops
[15:28] <KBar> is it 176 as well?
[15:28] <linuxfreezes> its 176
[15:28] <linuxfreezes> hm
[15:29] <KBar> i assume you don't know how to edit system config files?
[15:29] <linuxfreezes> i can edit them with mousepad /vi
[15:30] <KBar> you'll need superuser privileges to edit this 10-magic-sysrq.conf file
[15:30] <linuxfreezes> i have sudo
[15:30] <linuxfreezes> kernel.sysreq=176
[15:31] <linuxfreezes> i have opened it with mousepad
[15:31] <KBar> it's very unsafe to do it this way, but for this occasion, i think its fine
[15:31] <KBar> just dont make it into a habit
[15:31] <KBar> turn the 176 into 1
[15:31] <KBar> it has to be
[15:31] <KBar> kernel.sysrq = 1
[15:31] <linuxfreezes> and what else?
[15:31] <KBar> nothing else
[15:32] <linuxfreezes> 256?
[15:32] <KBar> just this specific line and value
[15:32] <KBar> no
[15:32] <KBar> it has to be 1
[15:32] <linuxfreezes> :ok
[15:32] <linuxfreezes> it gives a list of possible numbers
[15:32] <linuxfreezes> 128 is allow reboot
[15:32] <linuxfreezes> hm
[15:32] <linuxfreezes> all functions enabled with 1
[15:33] <linuxfreezes> how do i access the terminal with alt+printscreen
[15:33] <linuxfreezes> please teach me
[15:33] <KBar> did you edit the file?
[15:33] <linuxfreezes> yes saved
[15:33] <KBar> did you change the value from 176 to 1?
[15:33] <linuxfreezes> yes saved it
[15:34] <linuxfreezes> should i reboot now?
[15:34] <KBar> reboot it and then see the content of /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq
[15:34] <KBar> yes
[15:34] <linuxfreezes> and what will be command to bring the terminal
[15:34] <KBar> /proc/sys/kernel/sysrq should show 1 now
[15:34] <linuxfreezes> may i know?
[15:35] <KBar> reboot, read that file again and come back
[16:22] <KBar> well, i guess they will have to learn the magic trick from some other wizard
[20:17] <ovec> Test


[07:54] <yvs> Hello, on launchpad site if I've created second PPA: Is there way to attach a new git source to that second PPA? For the first PPA there was something like "Git import from.." in "Code" tab, but cannot find out this option for the second PPA
[12:32] <cjwatson> yvs: It sounds like you're conflating a couple of things - the option you're talking about exists for projects, but not for PPAs
[12:32] <cjwatson> yvs: What exactly are you trying to do?


[07:40] <fairuz> helo
[10:24] <lon3star> hoh
[10:26] <fairuz> hoh
[11:00] <adlan> hoh
[18:21] <biborn> hello..how can i install graphic card driver in ubuntu? my extra fancy appearence is disabled ..my graphic card is intel 945 express chipset family