[12:01] <tseng> gross
[12:02] <seb128> kdelibs would be like libgnome
[12:02] <seb128> or something GNOMish
[12:02] <seb128> libgtk is not really GNOMish
[12:02] <daniels> i thought libgnome was dying
[12:02] <seb128> daniels: for GNOME 3
[12:03] <seb128> we are not here yet, don't worry :)
[12:03] <seb128> pick another GNOME lib if you want
[12:04] <daniels> libgnomeui32 :P
[12:06] <dholbach> good night... i'm off to bed
[12:06] <seb128> 'night dholbach
[12:06] <dholbach> night seb :)
[12:06] <daniels> dholbach: night dude
[12:07] <sivang> dholbach: night
[12:07] <dholbach> night you two
[12:09] <tseng> bye dholbach
[12:09] <dholbach> bye brandon :)
[12:11] <sivang> seb128: I tried removing all the config.sub and .guss from the 12_autotools patch of gnome-panel, cdbs-edit-patch let me edit the patch this time, however, still no go at building the package afterwards
[12:11] <seb128> what happens?
[12:12] <lamont> j
[12:12] <lamont> EWIN
[12:18] <seb128> Riddell: I'll do the split patch tomorrow and send it to the Debian guy to know if he's ok with it
[12:18] <seb128> sivang: what is the error?
[12:18] <Riddell> seb128: thanks
[12:18] <seb128> np
[12:19] <sivang> seb128: sec, I noticed that I didn't kill all of the config.sub/guess stuff from the patch after all, do you have an automated way to do that? (through gaim maybe)
[12:19] <sivang> s/gaim/vim/
[12:19] <seb128> nop
[12:20] <sivang> seb128: plain manual? :)
[12:21] <sivang> seb128: ok, trying to other approach, why the panle_addto stuff is missing when I drop autotools patch entirly and recreate it aftere applying all other patches manually?
[12:21] <seb128> yep
[12:21] <sivang> seb128: (that's the only error I get when dropping the former 12_autotools and recreating it)
[12:21] <seb128> how do you create this patch?
[12:22] <sivang> seb128: I get the src pkg, rm debian/patches/12_autotools , cdbs-edit-patch 12_autotools, autoconf, rm -rf auto4mate/ , exit 0
[12:23] <seb128> that's not an autoconf patch
[12:23] <seb128> that's an autotools one
[12:24] <seb128> the add to panel changes modify the Makefiles
[12:24] <seb128> aclocal, automake, etc are used
[12:26] <sivang> ok then, can I readd the 11_lpi_autoconf patch?
[12:27] <sivang> (in order to seperate the two and not mess with the 12_ one)
[12:27] <seb128> no
[12:27] <seb128> 12_ also update the configure
[12:27] <seb128> that would be wrong to have 2 patch doing that
[12:28] <mdz> seb128: it only affects users who choose a very specific combination keyboard layout and options, and it doesn't make the system useless if it breaks
[12:28] <mdz> ogra: I don't know anything about gcompris; I gave 15706 to you
[12:28] <seb128> mdz: very specific is english and any layout using a group 3 (ie: most of non-english languages)
[12:29] <seb128> ie: use a de, fr, da, .. keyboard and try to add a en one
[12:30] <seb128> but luser probably don't have 2 different layout configured, right
[12:31] <ogra> mdz, yes, the question is, if i should follow upstreams suggestion to rather upgrade than fix it (the reporter is one of the upstream guys) i know a handfull of missing icons, but i dont know how many hidden bugs are there, apparently he tested the 7.0 version since a while on ubuntu (he's regulary in #edubuntu)
[12:31] <seb128> still quite an annoy regression imho, and we have got a bunch of bugs about that
[12:31] <seb128> s/oy/oying/
[12:32] <daniels> mdz: if 'hoary regression' is critical, as my inbox seems to be telling me, then this is critical
[12:32] <sivang> seb128: so , again, do I clean config.sub, config.guess, config.guess-cdbs and config.h.in from the patch? which ones should I leave inside?
[12:32] <seb128> sivang: mail me the lpi patch, I'll update the autotools one and upload
[12:33] <mdz> daniels: a hoary regression from a functional system to a non-functional system is critical; hoary->breezy upgrade failures are critical
[12:33] <mdz> daniels: breezy has a bug that hoary doesn't have isn't automatically critical
[12:33] <daniels> mdz: 'xlib doesn't support my locale' is allegedly neither of those two
[12:33] <mdz> ogra: new upstream versions at this time are pretty insane
[12:33] <daniels> mdz: certainly no more than 'xkb doesn't support my layout'
[12:34] <seb128> daniels: use "french layout with english configured as second" and you get a desktop with no theme, no icon, etc
[12:34] <daniels> seb128: ouch.  you should totally handle that more robustly.
[12:34] <mdz> daniels: perhaps I misunderstood the locaale bug.  what is the functional impact on affected programs?
[12:34] <seb128> daniels: g-s-d "just crash" as specified by the bug
[12:34] <seb128> and it tries to restart
[12:34] <seb128> it does that like 10 times and then stop trying
[12:34] <seb128> and you have a broken desktop
[12:34] <daniels> mdz: depends on how they're written.  likely just non-localised strings.
[12:35] <daniels> seb128: nice
[12:35] <seb128> if you are lucky, sometimes it crashes gnome-session with it
[12:35] <ogra> mdz, ok :)
[12:35] <seb128> and you have just a gdm screen :p
[12:35] <mdz> daniels: broken localization means, for many users, that they become unable to use their computer
[12:35] <daniels> mdz: (which to me seems no more critical than a keyboard layout which bears utterly no relation to what's on the keycaps.)
[12:35] <daniels> mdz: broken keyboard means, for many usres, that they become unable to use their computer
[12:35] <daniels> mdz: ranging from 'i can't do accents', to 'how the fuck do I even type my username on this thing'
[12:35] <mdz> daniels: "have to use layout foo instead of foo,bar" != "broken keyboard"
[12:35] <seb128> mdz: it makes GNOME unusable for non-english people setting an extra english layout
[12:36] <mdz> daniels: how about we stop arguing about it and you fix the bug?
[12:37] <mdz> daniels: you seem to have only 3 critical bugs at the moment and one of them has a trivial fix
[12:38] <daniels> mdz: for many users, layout foo vs layout foo,bar, is an unusable keyboard
[12:38] <daniels> mdz: and if the fix was actually that trivial, it would be uploaded by now.  but it isn't.  so it's not fixed yet.
[12:39] <mdz> daniels: the fix for bug 15770 is trivial and it's been open for two days
[12:39] <daniels> mdz: as in, neither of the bugs we've been talking about
[12:40] <mdz> daniels: <mdz> daniels: you seem to have only 3 critical bugs at the moment and one of them has a trivial fix
[12:40] <mdz> I didn't claim that the xkb bug was trivial; it's obvious from the bug log that it isn't
[12:40] <daniels> there we go, 15770 fixed
[12:40] <daniels> now where were we?
[12:40] <mdz> we were at the part where you actually upload it
[12:41] <daniels> no, we're beyond that part
[12:41] <mdz> thank you
[12:41] <daniels> i live to give
[12:42] <mdz> so what's the deal with #13724 (the xlib locale thing)?  is that specific to certain locales?
[12:43] <mdz> I haven't seen it myself, but it seems to be fairly common for upgraders
[12:43] <daniels> as the title says, non-UTF-8 locales
[12:44] <mdz> _all_ non-UTF8 locales?
[12:46] <daniels> yes
[12:48] <mdz> seb128: setxkbmap -layout fr,us works fine for me here.  as the title says, it seems to only happen when that option is also in use, and that option doesn't seem to be a default anywhere I've looked. is it?
[12:48] <seb128> mdz: setxkbmap work, setxkbmap -print | ... doesn't
[12:49] <daniels> mdz: welcome to the land of non-obvious failure modes
[12:49] <mdz> seb128: so -print | xkbcomp is what GNOME does?
[12:49] <seb128> yep
[12:50] <daniels> well, ish
[12:50] <mdz> does that have some other effect beyond what setxkbmap <blah> does?
[12:50] <daniels> but effectively
[12:50] <daniels> yes, it's less shit
[12:50] <mdz> ...
[12:50] <daniels> i'd rather not explain xkb internals at this point
[12:50] <seb128> mdz: "setxkbmap -layout 'fr,us' -model pc105 -option '' -option 'grp:alts_toggle'
[12:50] <seb128> -print | xkbcomp - :0.0" is what GNOME does
[12:51] <sivang> seb128: with some more bits of concentration I made it. I am now testing the build, if it's nice, I will upload source and you review, and if all fine we upload?
[12:51] <seb128> k
[12:51] <sivang> seb128: I appriciate the offer from before, but everytime you are helped, you don't learn things :-)
[12:51] <mdz> seb128: can we get g-s-d to not crash when this happens?
[12:52] <seb128> mdz: hum, make it robusts to libxklavier crashers ... I'll give it a try
[12:53] <seb128> mdz: but that will give a silent keyboard breakage for users
[12:53] <seb128> ie: they will get a default layout instead of what they configured
[12:54] <mdz> seb128: they get that anyway; but currently they also get a crash, right?
[12:54] <seb128> right
[12:54] <daniels> this is a hillarious intersection of: xkb parser problem (somewhere in libxkbfile), x server problem (not dealing with xkbcomp bombing properly in the setmap request), gnome problem
[12:55] <seb128> daniels: how GNOME? :)
[12:55] <daniels> the former is *really* hard to solve properly.  the second I can solve really properly but not without being very invasive.  the latter is SEP so I don't care.
[12:55] <daniels> seb128: no matter what I feed you, g-s-d should not crash
[12:55] <daniels> seb128: similarly, the X server shouldn't ever bomb, no matter what sort of weirdo crack it gets from a client
[12:56] <seb128> I agree
[12:56] <seb128> but as just said, then you would get a silent (or not) layout breakage
[12:56] <seb128> ie: user would get default config instead of what they configured
[12:56] <seb128> which is not really nice neither :/
[12:57] <mdz> right; we have a bug open about it
[12:57] <mdz> daniel says that he will add some debugging
[12:58] <mdz> I'm not sure what else we can do but debug it, unless we can revert to an older libxkbfile or whatever
[12:58] <daniels> no, that code hasn't changed
[12:58] <daniels> debugging> for me to work out what the christ is going on
[12:59] <mdz> the code hasn't changed since hoary?  what did change to trigger the bug?
[12:59] <daniels> subtleties in xk-c, iirc
[12:59] <daniels> they did practically rewrite the whole thing
[01:01] <seb128> daniels: has "grp:alts_toggle" to be the default?
[01:01] <seb128> daniels: maybe we can change that to workaround the crasher
[01:01] <daniels> seb128: it's not the default, no
[01:02] <seb128> daniels: it is, and that's what makes it crashing
[01:02] <daniels> er
[01:02] <seb128> "If you look at 'fr', you'll see the default variant includes
[01:02] <seb128> 'level3(ralt_switch)'"
[01:02] <seb128> daniels: http://listserv.bat.ru/xkb/Message/880.html
[01:02] <daniels> i just grepped for alts_toggle over /etc/X11/xkb and ~/canonical/xorg/monolith/xorg-6.8.2/debian, it's not the default :P
[01:02] <daniels> level3(ralt_switch) != grp(alts_toggle)
[01:03] <seb128> graa
[01:03] <daniels> level3(ralt_switch) -> altgr switches to level 3 (i.e. shift on crack)
[01:03] <daniels> grp(alts_toggle) -> both alt keys together change groups (think: layouts)
[01:03] <seb128> hum,yeah, we want altgr for that
[01:03] <daniels> right
[01:03] <daniels> so the problem comes when you combine those two -- when you have a layout that uses altgr for third level, and both alts together to change groups
[01:05] <seb128> daniels: but "-option 'grp:alts_toggle'" is used by default ..
[01:05] <seb128> maybe we can't ride that of that
[01:05] <seb128> that would workaround the crasher
[01:05] <daniels> maybe alts_toggle is used by default in gnome, but not in X
[01:05] <seb128> s/can't/can/
[01:05] <seb128> yeah, that's what I'm saying
[01:05] <daniels> oh
[01:05] <seb128> "setxkbmap -layout 'fr,us' -model pc105 -option '' -option 'grp:alts_toggle'
[01:05] <seb128> -print | xkbcomp - :0.0" is what g-s-d calls
[01:05] <daniels> right
[01:06] <daniels> but is that by default, or only when you select 'alts together toggle group'?
[01:06] <seb128> would dropping the "-option 'grp:alts_toggle'" be an issue?
[01:06] <daniels> well, it would mean that there's no way to switch between french and us layouts :P
[01:07] <daniels> ctrls_toggle or altshift_toggle (or whatever it is) work also
[01:07] <daniels> but the problem is matching what people coming from windows and/or os x expect
[01:07] <seb128> I usually click on the applet to switch :)
[01:07] <sivang> seb128: http://muse.19inch.net/~sivan/lpint/gnome-panel/ , phew ;)
[01:07] <sivang> seb128: let me know how it looks and if you upload
[01:07] <seb128> k
[01:08] <daniels> seb128: yeah, but some people hate azerty and would rather get rid of it at the login screen
[01:08] <daniels> seb128: can't blame them
[01:08] <sivang> elmo: can you whitelist my @ubuntu.com email address for katey as well ?
[01:08] <sivang> s/katey/katie/
[01:09] <Lathiat> sivang<EMAIL_ADDRESS>is whitelisted
[01:09] <sivang> Lathiat: ah cool :)
[01:09] <Lathiat> i asked the same thing last week ;)
[01:09] <seb128> daniels: I don't have any option selected to switch groups, that probably the default one
[01:10] <daniels> seb128: nah, you have to provide your own option to switch groups if you want it
[01:10] <daniels> seb128: you don't get a default group-switching option
[01:10] <seb128> -option 'grp:alts_toggle' is specified by g-s-d here
[01:10] <seb128> and I've not picked any option
[01:12] <daniels> seb128: that's gnome, then
[01:13] <daniels> trust me when I say that X isn't setting that per default
[01:13] <sivang> seb128: ok, hope my pkg passes your review, Bon Nuit :-)
[01:13] <seb128> later
[01:13] <sivang> good night all
[01:13] <seb128> daniels: I'm not saying X does, but g-d-s put that to its default call
[01:13] <daniels> seb128: right
[01:13] <daniels> seb128: probably libxklavier
[01:14] <sebest> is it me or launchpad.net is really slow?
[01:18] <zyga> sebest: 1000 people now went to see if launchpad is slow ;]
[01:18] <desrt> big plus to non-DMA-enabled CD drives: you can ping the machine and see the latency in the replies to judge if the installer is done copying the files over yet
[01:21] <Lathiat> haha zyga
[01:21] <sebest> zyga: i just got a "proxy error"
[01:21] <sebest> and i don't use any proxy
[01:22] <Lathiat> sebest: its the proxy on the side of the launchpad stuff
[01:22] <sebest> maybe they need a hardware crypto accelerator for ssl traffic ;)
[01:23] <sebest> Lathiat: too bad i was discovering launchpad and starting to really like it, and it died...
[01:35] <mxpxpod> is there a GUI option somewhere to put the home folder on the desktop?
[01:35] <ogra> mxpxpod, i think there is only a gconf key
[01:36] <mxpxpod> ogra: stink
[01:37] <seb128> 'night
[02:09] <tseng> jdub: is gnome-user-share porting to avahi?
[02:11] <tseng> jdub: arrrrr, i found their CIA
[02:38] <Lathiat> tseng, jdub: i ported it the other day
[02:38] <Lathiat> tseng, jdub: i sent the patch to the maintainer, not commited yet but
[02:39] <tseng> Lathiat: you are my hero, etc.
[02:39] <tseng> Lathiat: im getting antsy for some webdav/zeroconf lvoe
[02:39] <tseng> love.
[02:39] <Lathiat> want the patch?
[02:39] <tseng> i wont get to it today, would have to rebuild gnomevfs and all that jazz
[02:39] <tseng> if gvfs even works with avahi now
[02:39] <Lathiat> nah it doesn't
[02:39] <tseng> doubt it with freezes and such
[02:40] <tseng> there you go..
[02:40] <Lathiat> no ones actually poarted it yet
[02:40] <tseng> dapper it is
[02:40] <Lathiat> http://bur.st/~lathiat/gnome-user-share.diff
[02:40] <tseng> dapper will be a giant zeroconf orgy
[02:40] <tseng> and hopefully DAAP
[02:40] <Lathiat> DAAP is in rhythmbox
[02:41] <Lathiat> with avahi
[02:41] <Lathiat> and banshee is getting support, as daap-sharp and avahi-sharp are working fairly well now
[02:41] <Lathiat> and libnss-mdns 0.6 uses avahi if possible
[02:41] <Lathiat> altho that reminds me
[02:41] <Lathiat> i need to fix the ubuntu version
[02:41] <tseng> banshee is getting support when abock fixes the 34242 other bugs
[02:41] <Lathiat> to compile with avahi support
[02:41] <tseng> ubuntu version of?
[02:42] <Lathiat> anand being the silly goose he is decided to disable it, despite it not needing any runtime or build dependencies for avahi
[02:42] <Lathiat> (nss-mdns)
[02:42] <tseng> i see
[02:42] <tseng> i thought that was part of the package
[02:42] <Lathiat> yeh but he disabled it
[02:42] <Lathiat> in the debian package
[02:42] <tseng> when do we get 0.5 in breezy?
[02:42] <Lathiat> for no reaon
[02:42] <Lathiat> of avahi?
[02:42] <Lathiat> soon
[02:42] <tseng> yes.
[02:42] <Lathiat> waiting on ross
[02:42] <Lathiat> sent him the mono patch stuff
[02:42] <tseng> elite
[02:42] <Lathiat> said he was getting to it yesterday/today
[02:42] <tseng> can i see that patch?
[02:42] <Lathiat> which one?
[02:43] <Lathiat> oh
[02:43] <Lathiat> http://ajmitch.dyndns.win.co.nz/debuild/ubuntu/mono/0.4-0.5.debdiff
[02:44] <tseng> oh did aj review it?
[02:44] <Lathiat> ajmitch made it
[02:44] <tseng> haha
[02:45] <tseng> i think he is missing some small stuff
[02:45] <tseng> but it might work ok.
[02:45] <tseng> like MONO_SHARED_DIR isnt set
[02:45] <tseng> the buildd hates that
[02:45] <tseng> it tries /home/buildd/.wapi
[02:45] <tseng> = explode
[02:45] <Lathiat> feel free to fix it ;)
[02:46] <Lathiat> he fscke dup the control patch to
[02:46] <Lathiat> i fixed that when i sent it to ross
[02:46] <tseng> what a loser
[02:46] <Lathiat> haha
[02:47] <tseng> also we often have to mode -x on .dll files
[02:47] <tseng> but not that important
[02:49] <mjg59> How odd. My HP is now behaving strangely.
[02:49] <tseng> Lathiat: ill look more when its in the archive
[02:49] <tseng> Lathiat: and i can play around with it.
[02:49] <Lathiat> tseng: _before_ it hits the archive would be a better time to fix it? ;)
[02:50] <tseng> well i tried to build it on top of some installed package
[02:50] <tseng> and its pretty effed up right now
[02:50] <tseng> hard to test if the avahi# stuff has proper dllimport action
[02:52] <tseng> hm
[02:52] <tseng> Lathiat: http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/cli-policy/ch-mono.html#s7.3
[02:52] <tseng> Lathiat: right here is what im talking about
[02:52] <tseng> do that export at the top
[02:52] <tseng> and rm it in clean:
[02:52] <tseng> thats all.
[02:55] <jdub> GOOD MORNING FREEDOM LOVERS!
[02:55] <tseng> hi jeff
[02:58] <tseng> Lathiat: does that make sense, or should i really put a two line patch on my list?
[02:59] <tseng> Lathiat: ill probably play with avahi again anyway
[03:16] <ajmitch> tseng: so yeah, the avahi patch was a little broken, but I blame Lathiat for pressuring me
[03:16] <tseng> oj
[03:16] <tseng> ok
[03:17] <ajmitch> Lathiat: and what was wrong with the debian/control? I didn't really look at the patch I made :)
[03:18] <ajmitch> Lathiat: did you mean just the incomplete description that I asked you to fill in?
[03:34] <Lathiat> ajmitch: yes :)
[03:34] <Lathiat> ajmitch: i didn't pressure you i just... pestered you ;)
[03:34] <ajmitch> Lathiat: meh, that's minor :)
[03:34] <ajmitch> persistently pestered
[03:39] <mjg59> mdz: What's the procedure for moving stuff from multiverse to restricted?
[04:17] <mjg59> Can someone please rectify things so that going to https://launchpad.net/malone doesn't give me " Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page."?
[04:17] <mjg59> crimsun: Ping?
[04:18] <jdub> is there a 'boot without gdm' mode on the livecd?
[04:18] <mjg59> crimsun: slmodem-2.9.10 is *not* a newer version than 2.9.9d, and it has the added "advantage" of not actually being distributable
[04:19] <carstenh> jdub: single user mode ;)
[04:19] <jdub> 'single' works on the livecd?
[04:20] <carstenh> never tried it but it would be the first linux without i know
[04:20] <carstenh> s/i/it/
[04:21] <carstenh> ... aka runlevel 1
[04:21] <jdub> the livecd dude
[04:21] <jdub> different kettle of fish
[04:23] <mjg59> Oh, I see
[04:23] <mjg59> If I go to "Ubtuntu" first, I can get to Malone
[04:33] <TheMuso> c/c
[04:39] <jdub> elmo: ping
[04:39] <elmo> jdub: ?
[04:39] <jdub> oh, hey
[04:39] <jdub> yay
[04:43] <mdz> mjg59: so far it's sort of ad hoc...what's the package?
[04:43] <mjg59> mdz: sl-modem
[04:43] <mjg59> mdz: Though first it needs to be rolled back to a version that we can actually legally distribute
[04:43] <mdz> right, I didn't think we could
[04:43] <mjg59> 2.9.9 is under BSD plus two binary blobs
[04:43] <mjg59> 2.9.10 is under insane crack
[04:44] <mjg59> 2.9.9d is actually newer than 2.9.10
[04:44] <mjg59> But is a fork from the 2.9.9 codebase
[05:29] <sladen> mjg59: I think there's a 2.9.9e
[05:49] <crimsun> mjg59: err, eek?
[06:00] <fabbione> lamont-away: well it's a bit too late for them, isn't it?
[06:45] <fabbione> infinity: ping?
[06:49] <jcohen85> jbailey, what do i need to do tomorrow to help you fix the delayed bootup issue?
[06:55] <infinity> fabbione : pong.  Sorry dude, just woke up after mysteriously passing out in front of my computer early this morning.
[07:00] <fabbione> infinity: ok.. any news for me?
[07:01] <fabbione> infinity: re #15962
[07:02] <infinity> (And many other bugs, too)
[07:02] <infinity> I've made a pact with myself to not look at anything other than lrm until it's fixed, so that's what I'm on right now.
[07:02] <infinity> Shame about all my other bugs. :)
[07:03] <infinity> Every time I do a test build, i realise that somewhere in my 600k debdiff, I typoed something.
[07:03] <infinity> (Yes, yes, I know, "test build, what's that?")
[07:04] <fabbione> ok :)
[07:07] <infinity> daniels : Hey, neat, looks like you're not the only person with the "my nForce NIC just spontaneously stops working for no good reason" bug.  (8229)
[07:08] <fabbione> infinity: what version of the nForce?
[07:10] <infinity> Completely different (and newer) motherboard in Daniel's machine, but I assume they both use forcedeth for the NIC, which is where I assume the bug is.
[07:10] <daniels> rockin
[07:11] <infinity> Not like that's any useful info to go on, so watch it not get fixed until it really irritates someone with way too much spare time.
[07:11] <infinity> But, hey, "reboot into Windows to reinitialise the firmware with the nVidia driver" is a clever workaround.
[07:13] <infinity> Right, this is what happens when I search bugzilla for "nvidia".  Sidetrack bad.
[07:21] <doko_> good morning
[07:26] <crimsun> sladen: hmm, I only see 2.9.9e-pre2?
[07:27] <crimsun> I'll go ahead and revert that brain-dead upload with some "really" versioning. Beats an epoch, I guess.
[07:27] <crimsun> mjg59: thanks again
[07:49] <dholbach> good morning
[07:52] <fabbione> daniels: when i change something in aclocal.m4, how do i propagate the chage around?
[07:52] <fabbione> daniels: i can never remember the libtool dance...
[07:53] <daniels> autoreconf -v --install
[07:55] <fabbione> thanks
[07:55] <daniels> np
[08:36] <pitti> Good morning
[08:37] <\sh> morning pitti
[08:37] <dholbach> morning pitti, morning Kamion
[08:38] <\sh> pitti: any experience with vpnc? ,-)
[08:38] <Burgundavia> j #mlug
[08:41] <pitti> \sh: none, sorry
[08:45] <\sh> pitti: me neither...but it must be a cool small tool for connecting to cisco vpn concentrators
[08:45] <pitti> yes, I read your mail on u-d and saw the description
[08:47] <\sh> grmpf...
[08:47] <\sh> doing a hoary -> breezy dist-upgrade ... and I see a lot of errors...
[08:48] <\sh> where are the logfiles again for apts dist-upgrades errors?
[08:49] <\sh> /var/log/base-config ??
[08:49] <mvo> \sh: it's a bit embarrasing, but apt does not keep a log
[08:50] <\sh> damn...
[08:51] <\sh> because it doesn't upgrade without problems...grrr
[08:52] <\sh> linux-kernel wasn't updated to breezy
[08:52] <\sh> dictionaries-common had wrong values didn't pull in the german dictionaries
[08:52] <\sh> (sorry...but i have to jump between two places here, and I need a scratchpad)
[08:57] <\sh> mvo: we should implement it ;)
[08:59] <mvo> \sh: the whishlist bug is only 3,5y old :)
[08:59] <\sh> mvo: not long enough ;)
[08:59] <mvo> exactly ;)
[09:00] <\sh> restarted the laptop in single mode..trying to fix the mess now ;)
[09:02] <\sh> btw...every employee here at ish running now around with a Hp laptop and ubuntu on it, is poking me now to fix this and that...it's scary...what did I do when I distributed the CDs ,-)
[09:03] <mvo> hahah
[09:05] <\sh> mvo: don't laugh..it's not funny...u won't get any issue report on your cable MTA anymore when this is not stopping ;)
[09:05] <\sh> coffee now..brb
[09:29] <\sh> ok...update is ok now from hoary to breezy...some entries in the sources.list were corrupt ... error due to problem sitting in front of the keyboard
[09:37] <Treenaks> \sh: PEBKAC
[09:37] <Treenaks> ?
[09:40] <\sh> Treenaks: well..the guy had some strange repositories in it...removed them, updated and everything was smooth..
[09:41] <Treenaks> \sh: m.. m.. marillat?
[09:50] <\sh> Treenaks: no...hoary stuff...no external backports
[10:10] <\sh> jdub: is this you sitting there with no pants? http://lwn.net/images/ns/lca/d-waugh.jpg
[10:10] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[10:11] <Lathiat> haha, whats worse is im in the background
[10:11] <jdub> over the dunking pool :-)
[10:17] <\sh> jdub:  I just had a laugh flash when I saw this with luis' statement on p.g.o.
[10:17] <\sh> Mentioned Ubuntu to him; he told a fairly funny story about 'this Ubuntu guy at OSCON who just wouldn't stop talking'. 'Australian?' 'Yeah, he was an aussie.' 'Yeah, I know him.' :)
[10:17] <\sh> hehehhe
[10:17] <\sh> and then this..
[10:17] <jsgotangco> hehe
[10:19] <jdub> taking my pants off and pimping the love... these are my vices. :-)
[10:21] <\sh> now I'm just thinking to leave my trousers at home when I'm going to UBZ...
[10:25] <Yagisan> G'day - is installing breezy on LVM over RAID working in the installer ? It didn't in hoary.
[10:30] <mvo> jdub: the fade-effect of gksudo is now gone, but (some) people seem to dislike that (#15997, some irc remarks). do you think we should discuss it in e.g. a TB meeting?
[10:31] <seb128> mvo: people are never happy with what they get :p
[10:32] <daniels> tell me about it
[10:32] <daniels> people get a US keyboard, they complain they want French, I point out that US is better, they just complain
[10:32] <seb128> hahaha
[10:32] <Lathiat> haha
[10:33] <pitti> daniels: I agree that U.S. is really better than French :-)
[10:33] <pitti> (keyboard-wise)
[10:33] <daniels> (and German)
[10:33] <pitti> grrr
[10:33] <pitti> daniels:  !!!
[10:34] <daniels> pitti:  !!!
[10:34] <daniels> pitti: setxkbmap -option compose:ralt
[10:35] <\sh> come on...kblayout bashing...
[10:35] <daniels> although to be honest I have no idea how to compose a diaresis as opposed to an umlaut
[10:35] <Lathiat> UK keyboard sucks
[10:35] <Lathiat> cutting the left shift in half for the \ is just silly :)
[10:35] <Treenaks> Lathiat: UK keyboard rocks
[10:35] <Lathiat> esp since i keep doing ctrl-\ instead of ctrl-shift
[10:35] <Lathiat> and SIGKILl the process
[10:36] <crimsun> I'm slowly becoming accustomed to the | being down there
[10:36] <\sh> Lathiat: depends on the keyboard...
[10:36] <Lathiat> i kinda like the " being shift-2
[10:36] <Lathiat> but thats about it
[10:36] <Lathiat> \sh: dell laptop uk keyboard
[10:36] <crimsun> (ibm uk here)
[10:36] <\sh> Lathiat: the r200 keyboard actually is nice..but only the ' next to a small return key is just crap..anyways
[10:36] <Lathiat> i mostly got used to it
[10:36] <daniels> ibm us fo'lyf
[10:37] <Lathiat> put i still never can quite hit the @ key right
[10:37] <fabbione> elmo, Znarl: ping?
[10:37] <Lathiat> tend to hit one of the others next to it
[10:37] <daniels> Lathiat: isn't the @ key l3+q?
[10:37] <\sh> brb
[10:38] <daniels> or is that german
[10:39] <pitti> daniels: that's German
[10:39] <fabbione> who as a ppc and can test build a very small package for me?
[10:39] <fabbione> s/as/hsa
[10:39] <fabbione> amen
[10:39] <fabbione> HAS
[10:40] <daniels> itym ahem, rather than amen
[10:40] <fabbione> amen was meant that way :)
[10:40] <fabbione> pitti: people/~fabbione/
[10:40] <fabbione> there is the source for dmraid
[10:41] <fabbione> can you kindly test build it on ppc?
[10:41] <fabbione> it's no more than 200K to download
[10:42] <pitti> fabbione: on it
[10:42] <fabbione> thanks
[10:44] <pitti> fabbione: ftbfs
[10:44] <fabbione> pitti: can i see the log please?
[10:45] <pitti> fabbione: darn, I build again with LANG=C
[10:45] <pitti> fabbione: minute
[10:45] <fabbione> it shouldn't make any difference
[10:45] <pitti> fabbione: you probably can't read the German error messages
[10:46] <pitti> fabbione: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/shots/dmraid_0.9.9+1.0.0.rc8-0ubuntu1_powerpc.build
[10:47] <hunger> Lathiat: Nobody stops you from moveing the keys around.
[10:48] <hunger> Lathiat: I use a dvorakish keyboard layout with some keys shuffled around to meet my needs.
[10:51] <fabbione> pitti: that error is weird
[10:52] <jdub> mvo: there are no comments beyond the "this doesn't happen anymore" bit :)
[10:53] <fabbione> pitti: all right.. endianess crap..
[10:54] <pitti> fabbione: yay big endian...
[10:55] <seb128> jbailey: around?
[10:59] <fabbione> pitti: can you test a simple patch for me?
[11:00] <fabbione> pitti: line 105 of that file is missing a ]  at end
[11:00] <fabbione> - disk < &pdc->raid.disk[pdc->raid.total_disks;
[11:00] <fabbione> +              disk < &pdc->raid.disk[pdc->raid.total_disks] ;
[11:00] <fabbione> can you kindly check if that makes it?
[11:03] <doko> ohh noo ... one guy asks to save in M*-Office doc formats by _default_ in OOo ...
[11:03] <pitti> fabbione: yep, builds fine now
[11:04] <fabbione> pitti: thanks!
[11:05] <fabbione> Kamion: ping?
[11:06] <Yagisan> doko: you are joking right ??
[11:06] <Kamion> fabbione: yes?
[11:07] <fabbione> Kamion: are we frozen in universe? if so can i upload dmraid to fix 15897?
[11:08] <Kamion> ask the motus
[11:08] <Kamion> it's up to them
[11:09] <\sh> fabbione: what?
[11:09] <\sh> fabbione: if it's fixing a bug, please upload
[11:09] <fabbione> \sh: read the bug first...
[11:09] <fabbione> the package is NEW
[11:10] <\sh> one sec
[11:11] <\sh> fabbione: no dependency issues..so go
[11:11] <fabbione> ok
[11:12] <fabbione> brb
[11:12] <fabbione> gotta do another test first
[11:17] <\sh> doko: rrdcollect failes to build on all archs yesterday...
[11:18] <doko> \sh: will succeed, when the buildd's retry
[11:18] <\sh> doko: k...cause my list of unmet deps is growing again ;)
[11:23] <Kinnison> Hi all
[11:23] <pitti> Moin Kinnison
[11:23] <Kinnison> I upgraded to breezy and have a few comments
[11:24] <Kinnison> I spotted: Can't exec "/usr/bin/mkfontdir": No such file or directory at /var/lib/defoma/scripts/x-ttcidfont-conf.defoma line 252.
[11:24] <Kinnison> during the upgrade of various font packages
[11:24] <Kinnison> is this a known bug?
[11:24] <Kinnison> Also: WARNING: Failed to parse default value `{????????????????????????????????}' for schema (/schemas/apps/gtali/PlayerNames)
[11:24] <daniels> i guess defoma wants a better depends
[11:24] <Kinnison> during the upgrade of gnome-games
[11:25] <Kinnison> Also a suspend/resume cycle blows X out of the water but given how often X is being updated right now that might have been fixed already
[11:25] <Kinnison> Other than that, the upgrade was pretty smooth and everything else seems fine
[11:26] <daniels> suspend/resume> which chipset are you using, and s3 or s4?
[11:27] <Kinnison> It's an i8xx (I'll turn it on in a sec) S3
[11:27] <daniels> hrm, should work okay
[11:28] <daniels> it's been working for me for ages, but I've had the kernel and udev on hold for quite some time
[11:28] <Kinnison> Well, once my archive mirror is finished I'll try upgrading and trying again
[11:29] <chmj> mvo: ping
[11:30] <mvo> chmj: pong
[11:30] <Kinnison> lamont: you there?
[11:31] <chmj> mvo: http://www.sourcecode.za.net/distupgrade-errors.txt
[11:31] <chmj> mvo: I'm not sure what failing there
[11:31] <lamont> yep
[11:32] <zyga> hey everyone :)
[11:33] <mvo> chmj: that looks pretty bad
[11:33] <chmj> :/
[11:34] <mvo> chmj: the error comes straight from dpkg, maybe a corrupted deb? but then, it shouldn't have passed apts md5 checking ...
[11:34] <Kinnison> lamont: debian-installer-manual
[11:34] <zyga> chmj: maybe your drive is failing
[11:34] <Kinnison> lamont: daily builds thereof
[11:34] <lamont> it's a feature.
[11:35] <Kinnison> lamont: the Source: line it generates lacks the version number, yet the version of the package is not one for which we have source
[11:35] <lamont> it comes along for free whenever you do a daily build of debian-installer
[11:35] <pitti> Hi lamont - nice to see you in a more comfortable time zone :-)
[11:35] <Kinnison> lamont: which is bad, mmmkay
[11:35] <chmj> zyga: I doubt it
[11:35] <lamont> it's a binNMU - the only one in the archive
[11:35] <Kinnison> lamont: and the Source: line is wrong
[11:35] <lamont> it's always wrong on binNMU's
[11:35] <lamont> ==> sbuild bug.  someone should write a patch. :-)
[11:36] <Kinnison> lamont: someone will have to or it will never make it into launchpad because it won't be able to attach it to a source package release
[11:37] <mvo> chmj: can you compare the md5sum of the deb in your cache with the md5sum in your packages file (/var/lib/apt/lists/)?
[11:38] <chmj> mvo: ok
[11:38] <chmj> brb, have to restart for d-bus
[11:41] <daniels> (so much crack)
[11:44] <Kamion> Kinnison: can launchpad not do binNMUs?
[11:44] <Kamion> if not, how's it going to model Debian?
[11:44] <Kamion> (replay of yesterday's conversation, I guess)
[11:45] <Kinnison> Kamion: well, unless I can attach the binary to a source package, we can't take it in
[11:45] <Kinnison> Kamion: so if the binnmu declares its source version then we can take it
[11:45] <lamont> Kinnison: none of them to today
[11:45] <lamont> er, s/to/do/
[11:46] <Kinnison> It's a hurdle we'll have to leap when we start trying to import debian I guess
[11:46] <Kamion> Kinnison: binNMUs are sort-of-parseable (slight heuristic)
[11:46] <Kinnison> Kamion: aye, it'll be the slight heuristics we'll need to sort out
[11:46] <Kamion> Kinnison: if you can't find the source, chop off .0.[0-9] + from the version and see if you can find it now
[11:46] <Kamion> or actually .[0-9] + first to see if it was a binNMU-of-sourceful-NMU
[11:47] <Kinnison> so in other words, keep chopping off \.[0-9] + until I find a source or it doesn't chop any more?
[11:47] <Kamion> only two levels
[11:48] <Kinnison> okay
[11:48] <Kinnison> and that'll cover most bin-nmus?
[11:48] <pitti> mvo: nice patch for gksu! do you think you can add something similar to su?
[11:48] <Kamion> re_bin_only_nmu_of_mu = re.compile(r"\.\d+\.\d+$");
[11:48] <Kamion> re_bin_only_nmu_of_nmu = re.compile(r"\.\d+$");
[11:48] <Kamion> Kinnison: (katie.py)
[11:48] <Kinnison> Kamion: righty, ta
[11:49] <Kamion> and yes, that's katie's algorithm
[11:49] <Kamion> you're right, builds should get the Source: line right - but I'm not sure about what lamont said about it being an sbuild bug, historically the opinion's been that it's a dpkg-buildpackage bug
[11:49] <Kamion> but unpleasantly hard to fix
[11:50] <mvo> pitti: thanks, which patch exactly :) ?
[11:50] <Kamion> well, dpkg-dev somewhere anyway
[11:50] <Kamion> Kinnison: http://bugs.debian.org/62529
[11:50] <pitti> mvo: just read it on b-changes, "warn if user is not in sudoers"
[11:51] <pitti> mvo: oh, wait, that's not what we need
[11:51] <pitti> mvo: for su we need something like "root account is disabled, use sudo, kthxbye"
[11:51] <pitti> mvo: it is a common source of confusion
[11:51] <mvo> pitti: right, I'll have a look
[11:52] <Kinnison> Kamion: thanks dude
[11:52] <Kamion> Kinnison: fancy lunch somewhere today?
[11:53] <lamont> Kinnison: here's what my NIH code does:
[11:53] <lamont>         if not self.versions.has_key(ver):
[11:53] <lamont>             dv=ver[ver.find("-")+1:]
[11:53] <lamont>             if dv.count('.')>=2 and ver.split(".")[-1] .isdigit() and \
[11:53] <lamont>                    ver.split(".")[-2] .isdigit():
[11:53] <lamont>                 x=ver[:ver.rfind('.')]
[11:53] <lamont>                 if self.versions.has_key(x):
[11:53] <lamont>                     ver=x
[11:53] <lamont>                 elif self.versions.has_key(x[:x.rfind(".")] ):
[11:53] <lamont>                     ver=x=x[:x.rfind(".")]
[11:53] <lamont>                 if x==ver:
[11:53] <lamont>                     print "#found binNMU of %s_%s" % (self.name,ver)
[11:55] <lamont> Kamion: of course, part of me wishes that the debian-installer tar.gz was in the archive packed as well, but that's probably kinda silly
[11:55] <Kamion> lamont: eparse?
[11:56] <Kamion> oh, you mean debian-installer-images_*.tar.gz?
[11:56] <Kamion> well, it's byhand, theoretically elmo can do whatever the hell he likes with it :-0
[11:57] <Kamion> :-)
[11:57] <Kamion> I can see the argument for not duplicating it though
[11:57] <Kinnison> Kamion: Is there a useful script yet for looking after those tarballs?
[11:57] <Kamion> Kinnison: no, sorry
[11:58] <Kamion> ask elmo, he's got a file he copies-and-pastes from that might be useful to you
[11:58] <Kamion> but there's a stage in it where it just runs sh and expects you to clean up older unpacked directories
[11:59] <fabbione> Kamion: can you kindly NEW dmraid? -> universe is perfect and it will stay there for breezy
[11:59] <lamont> Kamion: yeah - that's the tarball I meant
[12:01] <pitti> jordi: humm, the other day you asked me to build an asturian langpack
[12:01] <pitti> jordi: but there are no asturian translations in the current sorce packages
[12:02] <fabbione> pitti: dude.. that stuff is so full of crac
[12:02] <fabbione> k
[12:02] <fabbione> bella enrico
[12:02] <pitti> fabbione: crack *sniff* is goood
[12:02] <pitti> Hi enrico
[12:04] <pitti> jordi: humm, and ast_ES is not in /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED
[12:05] <Kamion> fabbione: I've NEWed dmraid source; surely the binaries can wait until elmo's around :-)
[12:05] <fabbione> Kamion: sure.. it's more than fine, thanks
[12:06] <enrico> hi!
[12:12] <mvo> on one of my machines sudo dosn't print anything when a user who isn't in the sudoers file tries to run a command. has anyone seen this before?
[12:23] <xerxas> seb128_:  ?
[12:23] <xerxas> u there ?
[12:24] <seb128_> xerxas: pong
[12:24] <xerxas> ca va ?
[12:24] <xerxas> :)
[12:24] <xerxas> want to have xchat-systray depend on xchat OR xchat-gnome
[12:25] <xerxas> is it doable ? (need to know if it works first )
[12:25] <chmj> mvo: the md5sum is the same
[12:26] <ajmitch> evening all
[12:26] <pitti> Hi ajmitch
[12:27] <seb128_> xerxas: sure, that's on motu stuff ... could you put a malone bug for it?
[12:27] <seb128_> hi ajmitch
[12:27] <Kinnison> thanks guys
[12:28] <xerxas> seb128_:  can I repackage xchat-systray ?
[12:29] <Lathiat> :q!
[12:29] <Lathiat> -ETERM
[12:29] <xerxas> seb128_:  I want to become a ubuntu contributor , how should I do ?
[12:29] <xerxas> where's the start ?
[12:29] <Lathiat> xerxas: check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[12:29] <mvo> chmj: can you make the broken file available for download?
 xerxas: check out http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU
[12:31] <chmj> mvo: sure
[12:31] <xerxas> oops, don't understand why I'm cycling
[12:31] <xerxas> sorry guys
[12:56] <pitti> doko: humm, so what is the exact reason why we need openoffice.org-debian-files in main? to keep a symlink?
[01:00] <Kamion> smooth upgrades?
[01:00] <doko> pitti: no, to make sure the symlink is not removed. we can drop the package after release
[01:03] <pitti> doko: TBH I don't know the details, but if we need it, that's certainly fine
[01:07] <doko> pitti: we do, the old one did remove a file on purge not belonging to the package. if we don't upgrade it, spellchecking doesn't work in OOo2 when purging the OOo1 packages
[01:13] <`anthony> So I upgraded my laptop from hoary to breezy just now, and I'm finding nothing mono-ish will run unless I manually set MONO_PATH to /usr/lib/mono/2.0 first. Is this normal?
[01:15] <ajmitch> no, not really
[01:15] <ajmitch> what errors were you getting?
[01:16] <`anthony> can't find Mono.Posix, cant find System, that sort of thing ;)
[01:17] <ajmitch> right
[01:17] <ajmitch> reinstalling mono-classlib-1.0 will fix it
[01:17] <ajmitch> but we're trying to get it so an upgrade works properly
[01:18] <ajmitch> & the symlinks get in the right places :)
[01:18] <`anthony> hm. reinstalling without nuking about 45 other installed packages?
[01:19] <slomo> `anthony: apt-get --reinstall install mono-classlib-1.0
[01:21] <`anthony> slomo: ta.
[01:21] <`anthony> Ok, that made it all better. Probably not worth logging a bug, then?
[01:22] <slomo> `anthony: there are already enoug bugs about that problem ;)
[01:23] <`anthony> other than that, the only upgrade problem I had was that xfs got moved out of main and not reinstalled, but it was still referenced in my X config.
[01:23] <`anthony> This meant X wouldn't boot.
[01:24] <`anthony> easy enough to fix, tho.
[01:24] <`anthony> Other than that, the upgrade was painless (if a little bit slow ;)
[01:27] <Mithrandir> anybody know how I get gdb to tell me what the different varargs passed to a function are?
[01:29] <Kamion> seb128_: the evolution icon's still missing from the top panel in default installs; was that meant to have been fixed?
[01:30] <seb128_> Kamion: not yet, there is some upstream discussion on how it should be fixed
[01:31] <Diziet> Weird.  I just had someone come to the door looking for `Stonham Housing', a housing association.
[01:32] <Kamion> seb128_: ok, thanks. do you think it'll make final?
[01:34] <seb128_> oh, for sure yep, it's on my list
[01:34] <seb128_> GNOME 2.12.1 tarballs are due monday
[01:34] <seb128_> it'll be fixed with the 2.12.1 upload
[01:34] <ogra> grmpf, doko left ?
[01:34] <ogra> does anybody know if ooo is installable again ? my edubuntu CD is totally borked since yesterday
[01:36] <Kamion> seb128_: great, thanks
[01:37] <Kamion> ogra: that was temporary breakage yesterday, fixed mid-yesterday
[01:37] <seb128_> np
[01:38] <Kamion> ogra: it's fine on your CD from this morning, except on amd64
[01:38] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, ok, so tomorrows build should be fine
[01:38] <Kamion> oh, damnit, who broke hplip
[01:38] <ogra> yup
[01:39] <ogra> debian ?
[01:39] <Kamion> that's no excuse after UVF
[01:39] <seb128_> hey vuntz
[01:40] <ogra> Kamion, it wasnt meant as a excuse :)
[01:40] <ogra> but the changelog is looong
[01:40] <vuntz> hi seb128_
[01:41] <Kamion> DOKO
[01:42] <Kamion> damn
[01:42] <pitti> ETOPICOVERFLOW
[01:43] <jdub> mmm, the topic is not so informative as... eye glazing
[01:43] <ogra> pitti, could i ask for a favor ?
[01:43] <pitti> sure :-)
[01:44] <ogra> pitti, seems like i have some users who urgently want to use mknbi in a non networked install... could you review it
[01:44] <ogra> ?
[01:44] <pitti> I thought it was obsolete?
[01:44] <ogra> its x86 only and should be fine...
[01:45] <ogra> its used for creating etherboot images ... i would have been fine with it available in universe
[01:45] <pitti> ogra: why he needs it in main?
[01:45] <ogra> but if there is a big user demand i'll react if possible... its quite small
[01:46] <ogra> pitti, without network i cant get it from universe
[01:46] <pitti> humm
[01:46] <ogra> pitti, i'm talking about "absolutely no chance for network"
[01:46] <Kamion> uh, that would imply having it on the CD, which is a no-go at this point
[01:46] <ogra> hum
[01:47] <ogra> Kamion, why not ? it will only be on the edubuntu CD it wont affect ubuntu at all
[01:47] <ogra> (i.e. it will be a dependency of edubuntu-server)
[01:47] <Kamion> ogra: oh, you didn't say that earlier
[01:48] <Kamion> whatever then
[01:48] <ogra> Kamion, i just need main approval for it... which i didnt expect, but there seem to be more people needing etherboot than expected
[01:48] <ogra> and its trivial small...
[01:50] <pitti> ogra: approved
[01:50] <ogra> yay, thanks :)
[01:51] <ajmitch> sigh, still can't upload nevow to main :)
[01:51] <ogra> Kamion, 15984  opinions ?
[01:53] <ogra> ajmitch, whats nevow ?
[01:54] <ajmitch> ogra: web app template stuff for twisted
[01:54] <ogra> ah
[01:54] <ajmitch> ogra: if you want to sponsor my upload... :)
[01:54] <ogra> ajmitch, youre a main uploader, arent you ?
[01:54] <Kamion> ogra: X preconfiguration doesn't use mdetect any more; just remove it from ltsp/server/ltsp-build-client instead
[01:54] <ajmitch> ogra: key isn't in keyring yet
[01:55] <ogra> Kamion, sure that wirks for ltsp-client ? i think mdz uses it in his clinet boot script
[01:55] <ogra> works even
[01:56] <ogra> Kamion, i'll wait for mdz to discuss it...
[01:57] <Kamion> ogra: 'mdetect' doesn't appear anywhere else in ltsp
[02:01] <ogra> ogra@edubuntu:~$ grep mdetect /usr/sbin/ltsp-build-client
[02:01] <ogra>     test -z "$EARLY_PACKAGES" && EARLY_PACKAGES="x-window-system-core ltsp-client discover1 mdetect xresprobe udhcpc udev devfsd"
[02:01] <ogra> test -z "$EARLY_PACKAGES" && EARLY_PACKAGES="x-window-system-core ltsp-client discover1 laptop-detect mdetect xresprobe"
[02:02] <ogra> its not in any other tool though...
[02:04] <sivang> hi all
[02:04] <sivang> seb128: did you review my pkg?
[02:12] <seb128> sivang: not yet
[02:14] <sivang> seb128: k, I'll just wait for the mail from katie then :)
[02:19] <Diziet> Why does breezy main contain two different versions of zope ?
[02:20] <lifeless> for the love of it
[02:20] <Diziet> I see.
[02:20] <Diziet> No, actually, I don't see at all.  ?!
[02:20] <lifeless> zope2 and zope3 are on vaguely the same
[02:20] <lifeless> plone and other addins depend on zope2
[02:20] <Diziet> How many webservers do we think it sensible to ship ?
[02:20] <lifeless> zope3 is a clean overhaul from basically ground up
[02:21] <lifeless> Diziet: zope2 is a CMS, zope3 is a web app framework, neither are 'webservers' per se.
[02:21] <lifeless> besides which, are you counting twisted, python (has a built in one), apache, squid in accel mode, perl's various servers, ...
[02:30] <jbailey> seb128: Am now
[02:30] <Robinho_Peixoto> why it is not leaving but the packages with the translations?
[02:31] <Kamion> Robinho_Peixoto: I couldn't understand that question
[02:32] <Robinho_Peixoto> Kamion: language-pack-gnome 20050907 stop in this version
[02:32] <Kamion> "stop"?
[02:33] <Robinho_Peixoto> yep
[02:33] <Kamion> please explain
[02:33] <Robinho_Peixoto> don't have new packages
[02:33] <Kamion> oh, that's in progress
[02:33] <Kamion> pitti is working on that with the Rosetta team
[02:34] <Robinho_Peixoto> GDM is leaving without the translations
[02:34] <pitti> yes, I just reviewed a new tarball today
[02:34] <pitti> tomorrow's could actually be good
[02:34] <Robinho_Peixoto> don't has the package update-manager on rosetta
[02:35] <Robinho_Peixoto> i open the bug in the bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[02:35] <mvo> Robinho_Peixoto: it's known and there is already a bug open about it. people are working on it
[02:35] <Kamion> rosetta imports are a matter for #launchpad
[02:35] <Robinho_Peixoto> Is correct to open there?
[02:35] <Kamion> not bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[02:35] <Robinho_Peixoto> Kamion: sorry
[02:36] <Kamion> no need for an apology, just saying
[02:36] <Kamion> I think there's already a bug open anyway
[02:37] <Robinho_Peixoto> Kamion: OK. The times I espreo badly, because my English is bad!
[02:37] <mvo> Robinho_Peixoto: it's bugzilla bug #15820
[02:39] <Robinho_Peixoto> The times what I speak bad are understood, because I do not know to speak well English.
[02:40] <mvo> mpt: could you have a look at #16026 please?
[02:44] <mpt> mvo: ok
[02:50] <Robinho_Peixoto> mvo: I am open this bug
[02:51] <mvo> Robinho_Peixoto: oh, ok. thanks
[02:54] <Kamion> wow, save-logs' web server feature is so sweet
[02:54] <Kamion> but let's merge a new version from Debian so that it actually works
[02:55] <Kamion> hmm, maybe just a backport actually
[03:05] <pitti> tseng: can you please make monodevelop generate a pot file during build?
[03:09] <pitti> Diziet: do you feel like updating ffox and moz to the new versions?
[03:10] <pitti> Diziet: unfortunately there are no updated MFSAs yet, and only a few CANs, but some are there
[03:27] <Xof> are you guys interested in failed installation reports for the Breezy preview?
[03:30] <Diziet> pitti: Yes, I'll update firefox.  I assume this is cause for an exception ot UVF ?
[03:31] <pitti> Xof: of course. The best way is to file/follow up to bugs in bugzilla, but an email to ubuntu-devel is also appreciated
[03:31] <pitti> Diziet: yes, we have a general exception for that even for stable releases (if we test everythign properly, etc.)
[03:31] <pitti> Diziet: thanks
[03:31] <Xof> we're fighting with bugzilla now :-)
[03:31] <Xof> I wanted to know that the fight would be worthwhile
[03:32] <pitti> Xof: many bugs are already known, so a search might even give you workarounds and solutions, but there are always new bugs
[03:32] <pitti> Xof: yes, of course :-)
[03:36] <Xof> pitti: it's possible that this hardware configuration (dual G5) hasn't been tried -- we didn't find many powerpc-specific bugs, anyway
[03:36] <pitti> Xof: I saw G5 reports already, but I can't remember the details
[03:37] <pitti> Xof: you might consider trying the latest daily; many bugs have been fixed since the preview
[03:37] <jbailey> Xof: Is it a case of it not seeing your CDROM?
[03:38] <jbailey> Xof: If yes, you might want to see: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10307
[03:39] <dholbach> i'll go for an icecream, bbl
[03:39] <pitti> dholbach: I want one, too!
[03:39] <jbailey> Germany's small, p'haps we can bring you one ;)
[03:39] <jbailey> s/we/he/
[03:39] <dholbach> pitti: may i take your order, then? :)
[03:39] <pitti> jbailey: :-) but Berlin-Dresden is still 200 km, too far to not melt the ice
[03:40] <pitti> dholbach: same as always - one ball of each sort :-)
[03:40] <\sh> pitti: put the liquid ice back in the freezer ,-)
[03:40] <jbailey> Just need to drive fast, and keep in a covered container outside the window.  The compression of the air against it should keep it cool.
[03:40] <dholbach> pitti: you should visit me and especially THAT ice cream shop - i'd have to carry 2 buckets of ice cream :)(
[03:41] <Xof> jbailey: no, it's X not starting
[03:41] <pitti> 2 buckets? man, you must be hungry
[03:41] <\sh> one for dholbach one for murphy ,-)
[03:41] <dholbach> pitti: no... if you'd like to have one of every sort
[03:41] <ogra> did i hear icecream ??
[03:41] <mxpxpod> pitti: do you have dri enabled on your ppc?
[03:41] <pitti> dholbach: ah
[03:41] <pitti> mxpxpod: it is enabled automatically on the Radeon 9200
[03:41] <pitti> mxpxpod: I didn't have to do anything for it
[03:41] <mxpxpod> pitti: could you run glxgears?
[03:41] <Xof> it gracefully fails to start in framebuffer mode, and locks the computer up with the ati driver
[03:43] <jbailey> Ah, okay.
[03:43] <jbailey> I don't know the X bugs well enough to guess.  I know that there are a number of working configurations for X, though.
[03:43] <pitti> mxpxpod: running, what now?
[03:43] <mxpxpod> pitti: how fast is it running?
[03:43] <pitti> mxpxpod: no idea; it used to display the frame rate in the past, but now it doesn't
[03:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: is it going so fast that you can hardly see the gears?
[03:44] <pitti> mxpxpod: no, by far not - the blue one is about half a rotation per second
[03:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: hrmm... it should be going faster... mine goes about that slow too
[03:44] <mxpxpod> pitti: so obviously dri only works for 2d
[03:45] <ogra> yeah, lets switch GL benchmarking from fps to "rotation per sec of the blue gear" now that daniles has ripped out the pseudo benckmaring form glxgears *g*
[03:46] <mxpxpod> ogra: :)
[03:46] <pitti> much more fun
[03:46] <mxpxpod> haha
[03:46] <ogra> lol
[03:46] <mxpxpod> pitti: is that something to do with xorg and the driver that ubuntu has chosen to use?
[03:47] <pitti> mxpxpod: btw, pp-r runs fine, 3d acceleration is definitively there
[03:47] <mxpxpod> strange... so why is glxgears running so freaking slow
[03:48] <pitti> mxpxpod: why it should run faster?
[03:48] <pitti> my penguin should not slide down the whole track in 0.5 seconds either
[03:48] <mxpxpod> haha
[03:48] <mxpxpod> why did daniels tear out the fps from glxgears?
[03:48] <pitti> "glxgears is not a benchmark"
[03:49] <Lathiat> mxpxpod: strings `which glxgears`
[03:49] <ogra> mxpxpod, he didnt, he just made it an option ;)
[03:49] <mxpxpod> ohhh
[03:49] <mxpxpod> gotcha
[03:49] <Treenaks> Lathiat: omfglol :)
[03:49] <Lathiat> i didn't know daniel did it
[03:49] <Lathiat> but i guessed
[03:49] <Lathiat> my nvidia glx still doesn't go :(
[03:49] <Lathiat> and i can't seem to get any info out of it
[03:50] <Lathiat> fglrx is fixed now with libstdc=+5
[03:50] <mx|gone> time to go back to work :(
[03:58] <pitti> Diziet: we also need to update warty's and hoary's firefoxes; do you want to do that as well, or shall I do this?
[03:59] <pitti> Diziet: ... same for Mozilla *sigh* - maybe I do mozilla and you ffox? would that work for you?
[04:03] <Keybuk> "NPTL, besides the newly added support for SATA controllers and other hardware, is probably the biggest new feature of Slackware 10.2.
[04:03] <Keybuk> "
[04:03] <Keybuk> *boggle*
[04:03] <Treenaks> Keybuk: that almost sounds like  s/Slackware/Gentoo/
[04:04] <Treenaks> Keybuk: or they really suck
[04:04] <jbailey> For a one-person project, the update to a new kernel and all the detection tools as well as a glibc update is a pretty big deal.
[04:05] <Treenaks> jbailey: slackware is not a one-person project and hasn't been for a long time.. afaik
[04:05] <Keybuk> Treenaks: yeah, it is
[04:05] <Keybuk> Patrick is basically the only guy doing anything with it
[04:05] <Treenaks> Keybuk: it is?
[04:05] <jbailey> Ah really? I thought it was with all the fuss about him getting sick, and what would happen to slackware then?
[04:06] <Keybuk> is just odd to think that most of us "newbies" probably started off with Slackware
[04:06] <Keybuk> certainly it was the only real distro to choose when I started
[04:06] <jbailey> minilin then slackware.
[04:06] <jbailey> My first linux setup come on 4 floppies and was in portuguese. =)
[04:06] <Treenaks> Keybuk: yeah, I started with slackware too :)
[04:06] <Keybuk> heh, mine was a CD from Walnut Creek
[04:07] <Treenaks> 30 floppies! :)
[04:07] <Keybuk> I still remember transitioning to shadow passwords myself by hand, compiling all the bits, etc.
[04:08] <Keybuk> I so could've almost been a Gentoo user
[04:08] <Treenaks> I killed my system with the libc5 thing .. then I switched to Debian
[04:09] <Diziet> pitti: Yes, I'll do the firefoxes.
[04:09] <Keybuk> does Slackware include PAM yet?
[04:10] <pitti> Diziet: great, I'll do the mozillas then; please upload the breezy one first, since katie chokes if you upload a new orig.tar.gz in a security upload
[04:11] <pitti> Diziet: AFAICS, the only security issue is the shell injection, right? we already fixed the hyphen one in all releases
[04:11] <Diziet> pitti: katie> Noted.
[04:11] <pitti> Diziet: however, upgrading to the 1.0.7 might still be worthwile if it really brings stabilization fixes
[04:12] <Diziet> I haven't read the release notes yet.  I got the impression from my email exchanges with them that there were various other things.
[04:12] <pitti> Diziet: (otherwise the shell injection patch is easy)
[04:12] <Diziet> Most crashing bugs are security bugs somehow.
[04:12] <pitti> only if you can trigger them remotely
[04:14] <Kamion> the bulk of browser bugs are remotely-triggerable though, if only by putting up a web page and waiting
[04:15] <pitti> right
[04:16] <pitti> but fixing every ffox crasher would be a pretty big task :-)
[04:16] <Diziet> We could at least fix the reproduceable ones people seem to have spotted.
[04:16] <pitti> sure
[04:17] <Diziet> It's a bit like bailing out the ocean - into a lake.
[04:20] <Diziet> The redacted security issue list thingum doesn't have the data for 1.0.7.  And I'm not diffing the whole thing if I can help it.
[04:21] <pitti> Diziet: oh, I know the patch for the shell injection vuln
[04:21] <pitti> Diziet: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=307185
[04:21] <Diziet> Well, yes.  I mean, I'm not diffing 1.0.6 against 1.0.7 to look to see if there's anything else we need and to try to decide for each one separately.
[04:21] <pitti> argh, Thunderbird is vulnerable, too
[04:22] <pitti> Diziet: oh, no
[04:22] <pitti> Diziet: we fought with backporting single patches far too long to do that again
[04:22] <Diziet> I'll apply our 1.0.6 diff to 1.0.7 and see how bad it is.  Ah here comes the tarball.
[04:22] <pitti> Diziet: the 1.0.6 diff already contains the hyphen patch
[04:22] <pitti> so that will be rejected
[04:23] <pitti> (yay missing patch system)
[04:23] <Diziet> I don't mind dealing with rejected patches if I don't have to deal with a patch system tarpit nightmare of doom.
[04:24] <pitti> Diziet: ok, it seems we have fundamentally different preferences how to deal with a package :-)
[04:26] <dholbach> you like using tarball.mk?
[04:26] <daniels> pitti: HATE
[04:26] <daniels> dholbach: i'm far more concerned about simple-patchsys
[04:26] <dholbach> i always tried to like it, but failed abysmally
[04:26] <jbailey> dholbach: tarball is nice. =)
[04:26] <pitti> dholbach: yep
[04:26] <jbailey> dholbach: It means that all I have to do when I'm done is rm -rf the directory. =)
[04:26] <pitti> dholbach: never ever destroy your sources again, nicely supports multi-build
[04:27] <Diziet> cdbs ?!
[04:27] <dholbach> hm, but patching a non-extracted tarball, hm
[04:27] <pitti> dholbach: cdbs-edit-patch does that nicely for me
[04:27] <dholbach> pitti: oh it now does?
[04:27] <pitti> dholbach: well, my version on my hard disk at least
[04:27] <ogra> Diziet++ :)
[04:27] <pitti> not yet the official one
[04:27] <dholbach> pitti: UPLOAD IT! MAN!
[04:27] <dholbach> that's what i was waiting for :)
[04:27] <pitti> nobody asked me to so far
[04:27] <jbailey> Diziet: if you have specific issues with cdbs, I'm still hacking on cdbs2. =)
[04:28] <pitti> jbailey: will it ever be ready? :-)
[04:28] <jbailey> pitti: Who knows? =)
[04:28] <daniels> pitti: there are patch systems which don't destroy your sources, and also don't require tarball.mk :P
[04:28] <jbailey> pitti: It's usable now.
[04:28] <pitti> oh, cool
[04:28] <jbailey> pitti: It just is missing testsuite stuff.
[04:28] <daniels> pitti: also, srcdir != objdir works fine for multi-builds
[04:28] <daniels> pitti: i do that for libx11, e.g.
[04:28] <jbailey> It's tempting to just deploy it. =)
[04:28] <dholbach> daniels: it doesnt require tarball.mk :)
[04:28] <pitti> daniels: right, I'm still waiting for wig&pen support in dpkg-source
[04:29] <daniels> dholbach: no, no, it does.
[04:29] <daniels> pitti: dude, dpatch
[04:29] <dholbach> daniels: which one?
[04:29] <daniels> dholbach: simple-patchsys
[04:29] <dholbach> daniels: it doesnt
[04:29] <daniels> dholbach: it requires one of tarball.mk, or deleting your entire working tree fifty times for every revision
[04:29] <jbailey> My dislike of dpatch mostly comes from having to twiddle to get -p flags right when it should just autodetect it for me.
[04:29] <pitti> daniels: dpatch is ugly and it does not prevent source destrucion in any way (unless you use it with a tarball)
[04:29] <daniels> this is actually a large part of the reason that I ignore simple-patchsys
[04:30] <jbailey> Is the autodetection?
[04:30] <daniels> pitti: simple-patchsys does not deal with failure, full stop
[04:30] <jbailey> simple-patchsys should unwind better, yes.
[04:30] <daniels> pitti: dump a patch which doesn't quite apply into debian/patches, bam, watch your entire tree now become horribly wedged and not work without hand intervention
[04:30] <daniels> pitti: otoh, I don't think I've ever managed to wedge a tree with dpatch
[04:30] <jbailey> I have. =)
[04:30] <pitti> daniels: that's where tarball will clean up
[04:30] <jbailey> But mostly with bad -p munging.
[04:31] <daniels> pitti: my claim is that if your patchsys relies on a dbs-alike system, it's horribly broken
[04:31] <jbailey> It doesn't rely on it, there's simply a bug.
[04:31] <pitti> daniels: sure, if you don't like it, nobody stops you from using dpatch or quilt with cdbs
[04:31] <jbailey> Does dpatch have cdbs integration now?
[04:31] <pitti> daniels: given that simple-patchsys was more indended to be a demo than something working, it works pretty well for me
[04:32] <jbailey> I know that quilt does.
[04:32] <daniels> jbailey: i'm bitching about simple-patchsys, not cdbs
[04:32] <pitti> /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/dpatch.mk
[04:32] <daniels> s/jbailey/pitti/
[04:32] <pitti> daniels: sure, I know :-)
[04:32] <jbailey> daniels: Right.  But simple-patchsys' failure to unwind is a bug, not a design flaw.
[04:32] <jbailey> daniels: It has all the stamp files, it just needs to unwind over those *before* deleting, them not after.
[04:33] <daniels> jbailey: dpatch's md5summing is well worth looking at, too
[04:33] <jbailey> daniels: Ah, cool.
[04:33] <jbailey> daniels: I'll ask you for tips when I get that far with cdbs2.  Mostly I've had trouble wanting to hack on build systems in my evenings, y'know? =)
[04:33] <jbailey> cdbs was mostly done while I was working at an IT job. =)
[04:34] <mx|gone> this is probably a stupid question, but is it too late to get the bluetooth hid patch into the kernel for breezy?
[04:34] <daniels> jbailey: wanting to hack on build systems> i can relate
[04:34] <jbailey> mx|gone: Probably, yes.
[04:34] <mx|gone> damn
[04:35] <jbailey> daniels: Dude, you've had to look at far too make imake setups, for which you have my infinite sympathy.
[04:35] <daniels> jbailey: yes, and then I unwound by autoconfiscating the tree
[04:36] <jdub> my sympathy is finite
[04:36] <jbailey> =)
[04:36] <jdub> i just don't want to feel like i'm feeling like that
[04:36] <jbailey> jdub: I'm Canadian.
[04:36] <jbailey> daniels: Yeah, I was supposed to help with pieces of that and got busy.
[04:36] <jdub> what, you have maple-powered sympathy engines?
[04:36] <daniels> jbailey: i'm *so* sorry
[04:36] <daniels> jbailey: ah, nevermind.  we got it all done.
[04:37] <jbailey> jdub: I'm from Vancouver.  The trees that we grew weren't maple. ;)
[04:38] <jdub> :-)
[04:38] <janimo> jbailey, is there still support for mkinitrd now that initramfs is used?
[04:38] <janimo> I ask because apcid still installs /etc/mkinitrd
[04:38] <janimo> acpid
[04:38] <jbailey> janimo: initrd-tools is dropping to universe, I think.
[04:38] <dholbach> hi janimo
[04:38] <janimo> hi dholbach :)
[04:39] <Diziet> Dammit, which does patch convert rejected diffs to that lame cdiff format ?
[04:39] <janimo> dholbach, we'll meet between 18-26 oct sometime ;)
[04:40] <dholbach> janimo: sounds super, i look forward to that :)
[04:40] <Sumire> RO Server: irc.yuki.deltaanime.net #SolaceRO
[04:40] <Sumire> RO Server: irc.yuki.deltaanime.net #SolaceRO
[04:40] <Sumire> RO Server: irc.yuki.deltaanime.net #SolaceRO
[04:41] <pitti> daniels: btw, http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/scripts/cdbstpatch is there for ages; that one creates/edits patches for cdbs+tarball
[04:42] <daniels> pitti: meh, I just commit it upstream and take a new CVS snapshot
[04:42] <pitti> pitti: context?
[04:46] <pitti> darn
[04:46] <pitti> daniels: in which context?
[04:46] <ogra> :)
[04:46] <pitti> thanks, ogra
[04:46] <pitti> time to get some fresh air, as soon as I finished teaching langpack-o-matic how to import k3b-i18n
[04:49] <daniels> pitti: i don't patch X stuff, I just commit it to CVS and use that
[04:49] <pitti> daniels: ah :-)
[04:50] <tseng> pitti: ping
[04:50] <pitti> Hi tseng
[04:50] <tseng> pitti: hi :)
[04:50] <tseng> pitti: was there something about privelage dropping in tethereal?
[04:51] <pitti> tseng: hmm, not recently; however, the current hoary version has wide open holes, if you mean that
[04:51] <pitti> tseng: why priv dropping?
[04:51] <tseng>  * debian/patches/04_drop-capabilities.dpatch: preserves CAP_DAC_READ_SEARCH
[04:51] <tseng>     which seems necessary for sudo usage (closes: #320453)
[04:52] <tseng> hm
[04:52] <tseng> pitti: well, i am running it as root (or sudo) and it cant write a wide open dir
[04:52] <tseng> pitti: touch or rm work in the same context
[04:52] <tseng> it gets EACCESS
[04:52] <pitti> tseng: is the dir owned by root?
[04:52] <janimo> jbailey, if mkinitrd goes to universe would it not be ok to prevent acpid from installing /etc/mkinitrd. on ubuntu-laptop a guy just asked the same thing it confused him too
[04:52] <tseng> pitti: no.
[04:52] <pitti> tseng: if not, you also need CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE
[04:52] <janimo> to have a dir in etc which is not used in the current setup
[04:52] <jbailey> janimo: Yeah, it'd have to.
[04:53] <jbailey> I wonder why it does it.
[04:53] <tseng> pitti: yeah, that fixes EACCESS..
[04:53] <tseng> pitti: i might revert this patch locally
[04:53] <janimo> to support both initrd and initramfs? maybe in debian that makes sense if they can have both I don't know
[04:54] <janimo> jbailey, should I file a bug?
[04:54] <jbailey> I don't see how it installs it, it's not in the control file.
[04:54] <jbailey> Just debconf, lsb-base and module-init-tools
[04:55] <janimo> dpkg -L acpid shows it right?
[04:55] <jbailey> I generally use apt-cache to look at dependancy lines
[04:56] <mvo> does anyone has a idea why linux doesn't seems to free the diskspace for munmaped/unlinked files sometimes (#15603)? it is only freed after the applications exists ...
[04:56] <jbailey> mvo: REquired by posix
[04:56] <jbailey> As long as something holds a reference to a file, it has to continue to exist.
[04:56] <jbailey> Even if the directory entry is gone.
[04:57] <mvo> jbailey: yeah, I know that. but I don't hold a refrence anymore. I mean, mumaped the file
[04:57] <mvo> no open fd
[04:57] <jbailey> Did you close the fd as well after?
[04:57] <jbailey> (Double check that in /proc
[04:57] <jbailey> )
[04:58] <mvo> jbailey: the fd is (should be) closed after the mmap was sucessfull
[04:59] <Kamion> Diziet: context .rejs> yes, it's incredibly irritating - as a side-effect that means 'baz replay' has the same bug
[04:59] <Kamion> though 'baz merge' doesn't, so I assume it does the patching itself
[04:59] <mvo> jbailey: no open fd. but /proc/$pid/maps shows:
[04:59] <mvo> 2aaaafe63000-2aaaafe64000 rw-s 00c00000 08:01 2004246                    /var/cache/apt/pkgcache.bin (deleted)
[05:00] <janimo> jbailey, I did not mean dependencies, just that acpid.deb contains a /etc/mkinitrd/scripts/acpid which is not used in the default setup but leads to the creation of /etc/mkinitrd
[05:00] <janimo> which can be/is confusing
[05:01] <jbailey> mvo: You sure?  Looking at susv3, I see: The mmap() function shall add an extra reference to the file associated with the file descriptor fildes which is not removed by a subsequent close() on that file descriptor. This reference shall be removed when there are no more mappings to the file.
[05:04] <jdub> mjg59: ping
[05:05] <jbailey> mvo: Can you use ltrace to see if the munmap fall failed for some reason?
[05:05] <mvo> jbailey: thanks, I'll doublecheck if the munmap is really called/sucessfull
[05:07] <jbailey> janimo: Hmm.  I can see it being nice to keep that in for this release in case someone needs to use  initrd-tools for some reason.
[05:07] <jbailey> I'd hope that there's no need for it, but if it's only confusing and not harmful to have it in there...
[05:09] <mjg59> jdub: Hi
[05:09] <janimo> jbailey,ok, although it could be moved out into mkinitrd-tools but maybe that's just too much work for little gain
[05:10] <mjg59> Wow. Slashdot have changed to HTML 4.01
[05:10] <jdub> mjg59: dccalliance.biz has some serious lack of css love
[05:10] <Kamion> janimo: wrong place - not all architectures want acpid
[05:10] <mjg59> jdub: It never had any CSS
[05:10] <jdub> it used to look like the other site
[05:11] <jdub> argh, they've ruined the text-only mode
[05:11] <jdub> oh well, no style works
[05:11] <mjg59> Yes, then Ian rang me up and asked me to change it
[05:13] <pitti> mjg59: btw, kudos for hibernation - it works perfectly now (for me at least); ethernet and usb are fixed
[05:13] <janimo> Kamion, I am not advocating that then, but I became curios: does the apcid being put into /etc/mkinitrd/scripts affect archs which don't have acpi?
[05:13] <janimo> it's a find |xargs so if no acpi drivers are found no harm is done
[05:14] <Kamion> janimo: no, because those arches don't have an acpid.deb
[05:14] <Kamion> so they'll never install it in the first place
[05:15] <sladen> jbailey: what did you do to initramfs(!)  There's now a 15second delay before it does anything useful
[05:16] <janimo> Kamion, so they would not be harmed if that mkinitrd/acpid script was installed as part of initrd-tools then?
[05:16] <janimo> it would be a noop.(Or I am missing something bigtime)
[05:17] <Diziet> mjh: Asked you to change it ?  Ie, they asked you to get rid of the CSS ?
[05:17] <Diziet> I mean, mjg59:
[05:17] <Yagisan> jbailey: Having a problem installing edubuntu in vmware 5
[05:18] <mjg59> Diziet: There never was any CSS
[05:18] <Yagisan> jbailey: http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/edubuntu-vmware.png
[05:18] <mjg59> It's a really crap website
[05:18] <Yagisan> jbailey: or  http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/edubuntu-vmware-nolvm.png
[05:18] <mjg59> But yes, Ian asked me to change the styling to make it clear that it wasn't the same site
[05:18] <Yagisan> jbailey: known problem ?
[05:19] <jbailey> sladen: If you could help find that it would be lovely.  I don't see it here, and you're the second person to mention it.
[05:19] <jbailey> sladen: Do you have multiple machines?
[05:20] <jbailey> Yagisan: Try adding 'break' to the kernel command line, do a modprobe BusLogic and then vgchange -ay, tell me if /dev/mapper/Ubuntu* appears
[05:21] <jbailey> Yagisan: If that works, then yes it's a known problem and the next kernel update is supposed to fix it.
[05:21] <jdub> mjg59: get my /msg?
[05:21] <jdub> (gar feenode)
[05:21] <Kamion> janimo: it's fine the way it is; now is not the time to mess about with stuff for cosmetic reasons
[05:21] <Robot101> yarr
[05:22] <Yagisan> jbailey: ah - need to reinstall it first (I blew away the lvm one first :-[)
[05:22] <jbailey> Yagisan: Either way
[05:22] <jbailey> If you install BusLogic
[05:22] <jbailey> and then run udevstart, then your /dev/sda1 should appear
[05:22] <Diziet> mjh: Why did you agree ?
[05:24] <mjg59> jdub: Yes. Freenode won't let me reply.
[05:24] <Kamion> janimo: and in any case I don't generally approve of putting things in the wrong place (i.e. wrong layer) just because they're a bit prettier that way ...
[05:24] <sladen> jbailey: yes.  let me upgrade another one
[05:24] <jbailey> sladen: Sure.  or IRC from that one. =)
[05:25] <Diziet> hoary's firefox is based on 1.0.2.
[05:26] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox | 1.0.2-0ubuntu5 | hoary/universe | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc
[05:27] <Kamion> mozilla-firefox | 1.0.6-0ubuntu0.2 | hoary-security | source, amd64, i386, ia64, powerpc, sparc
[05:27] <Kamion> (incidentally, what the HECK is that doing in hoary/universe? confused)
[05:27] <daniels> Kamion: firefox vs mozilla-firefox?
[05:27] <Diziet> Oh, I'm looking in the wrong Packages file.
[05:27] <Kamion> daniels: no, that was a breezy thing
[05:28] <Kamion> it's in hoary's Packages anyway so I guess it must have been equal-version-but-different-component-in-different-suites hilarity
[05:28] <Kamion> I suppose I could promote it back now, but err, so not touching hoary
[05:30] <Kamion> lamont: ok, indeed poxml isn't needed for the Ubuntu debian-installer-manual build, so I'll drop that build-dependency
[05:31] <bddebian> Howdy
[05:31] <janimo> Kamion, fair enough, as I said I no longer asked if it could be moved, was only curious if it would work or not
[05:32] <bddebian> elmo: ping?
[05:32] <sladen> jbailey: both of these machines.  1 for 10seconds, 1 for 15seconds.  very disconcerting
[05:34] <lamont> Kamion: thanks muchly
[05:34] <lamont> although it's still ftbfs - see the other window
[05:35] <Yagisan> jbailey: modprobe BusLogic & udevstart didn't make /dev/sda appear :( . I'll try an all ide install tommorrow and see if I can reproduce it.
[05:39] <sladen> jbailey: why exactly are you loading USB, Ethernet and $foo drivers before init/usplash?
[05:39] <sladen> jbailey: is this something LTSPy ?
[05:40] <elvirolo> hi all
[05:40] <Diziet> Someone said something about katie and new .orig.tar.gz's and security fixes.  That's going to be a problem because the old and new .orig.tar.gz's may have the same md5sum, they have different names.
[05:40] <bddebian> Hello elvirolo
[05:41] <sladen> jbailey: there's a several second pause enumerating the IDE devices too
[05:41] <jbailey> Yagisan: Thanks.
[05:41] <jbailey> sladen: (Lagging just a sec
[05:41] <elvirolo> using the breezy default configuration, my FPS is very low (for ex in glxgears) whereas everything used to work fine under hoary (with the same card) is this a known problem?
[05:43] <ogra> elvirolo, how do you get the FPS in glxgears ?
[05:43] <jbailey> sladen: IIRC usplash didn't like being loaded early.  I don't remember the why on that.
[05:43] <jbailey> But several second pause enumerating ide? =(
[05:43] <elvirolo> ogra: in stdout
[05:43] <elvirolo> wait, it's not displaying the FPS anymore...
[05:43] <ogra> exactly
[05:44] <Yagisan> good night all
[05:44] <ogra> night Yagisan
[05:44] <elvirolo> anyway, the gears spin a lot slower, and my FPS rate in games (like balazar) is about ten times lower than it used to be
[05:44] <Kamion> Diziet: err, I don't quite understand "may have the same md5sum, they have different names"
[05:45] <Diziet> kamion: They _do_ have the same md5sum.  {mozilla-,}firefox_1.0.7.orig.tar.gz.
[05:46] <elvirolo> how do i know whether DRI is enabled or not ?
[05:46] <Diziet> (Unfortunately upstream ships only a .bz2, so it's not the same md5sum as theirs.)
[05:47] <sladen> ogra: which glxgears | strings | grep benchmark | xargs glxgears
[05:48] <Kamion> Diziet: oh, you mean that the hoary-security one unavoidably has a different name and there's no way to get that in through breezy. Hmm.
[05:48] <Kamion> I think you need help from James Troup on that
[05:48] <infinity> That's not an issue.
[05:48] <Diziet> Yes, exactly.
[05:48] <infinity> And we've already done it once.
[05:49] <Diziet> Oh, all right.  I'll just go for it then :-).
[05:49] <infinity> Upload breezy and hoary with -sa, and warty without -sa
[05:49] <infinity> Wait for hoary to get in before doing warty.
[05:49] <Diziet> Willdo.
[05:49] <sladen> ogra: which glxgears | xargs strings | grep benchmark | xargs glxgears   even
[05:49] <Diziet> Speaking of warty, does anyone have a handy warty system to test my .deb on ?  It would be nice to check that it at least works a bit before having zillions of people install it.
[05:50] <Diziet> I could install one but it seems like quite a faff.
[05:50] <infinity> Diziet : Run it from a warty chroot, that's what I did last time.
[05:50] <Diziet> Yeah, but I don't have a warty chroot atm.
[05:50] <infinity> debootstrap works. :)
[05:50] <infinity> (I'd test for you, but I'm off to bed in about 3 minutes..
[05:50] <infinity> )
[05:50] <Diziet> :-).
[05:50] <daniels> elvirolo: -> #ubuntu, please
[05:50] <elvirolo> sladen: thanks
[05:51] <elvirolo> daniels: ok
[05:51] <Diziet> If I don't get a volunteer, sure I'll do it myself.
[05:54] <ogra> sladen, i know
[05:54] <ogra> sladen, it was disabled for a reason
[05:55] <ogra> sladen, i didnt want to make daniels life worse :)
[06:00] <daniels> your server has working wireless, but broken ethernet?
[06:00] <Kamion> yes
[06:01] <daniels> perverse
[06:01] <ogra> heh
[06:01] <Kamion> It works. Most of the time, anyway.
[06:31] <ogra> doko !
[06:32] <doko> hi ogra
[06:32] <ogra> how is oldenburg ?
[06:34] <lamont> doko is here???
[06:34] <ogra> nordic beer ? in oldenburg ?
[06:34] <lamont> woot
[06:35] <\sh> jever
[06:35] <ogra> heh
[06:35] <\sh> whatever u drink in oldenburg
[06:35] <ogra> north german beer :)
[06:36] <\sh> ogra: everything north of cologne is nordic ,-)
[06:36] <\sh> you know the song:" Nordisch By Nature"
[06:36] <ogra> yes, and everything south of frankfurt is bayern
[06:36] <\sh> hehehe...exactly
[06:36] <siretart> lol
[06:36] <\sh> and the german capital is bavaria ,-)
[06:37] <ogra> \sh, ts my personal hymn sice i live in the middle of germany :)
[06:37] <siretart> fraconia rules ;)
[06:37] <dholbach> guys, come to berlin and talk again :)
[06:37] <siretart> ETOOMANYGERMANS *g*
[06:38] <ogra> hehe
[06:38] <\sh> ogra: when I was in stuttgart, every "schwabe" told me, that I'm a "Muschelschubser und Fischkopp" but this is absolutely OT
[06:38] <ogra> yes, we own the channel phear us !
[06:38] <Kamion> Diziet: wow, the warty jigdos still work. go me.
[06:39] <Kamion> ooookaaaaay
[06:39] <ogra> dholbach, above or below the "mdz groupie" shirt ?
[06:39] <ogra> ;)
[06:39] <dholbach> i switch according to the timezones
[06:39] <ogra> hehe
[06:39] <Diziet> kamion: My mirror seems to be missing the udebs, but luckily they're quite few.
[06:39] <ogra> dholbach, can you bring me such a Kamion shirt to UBZ please
[06:40] <dholbach> sure thing
[06:40] <ogra> :)
[06:40] <Diziet> Hmm.  Is it worth the faff to save using my uplink here for 2x2ks to upload that firefox .orig.tar.gz twice ?
[06:40] <Diziet> Probably not.
[06:45] <Kamion> Diziet: they're referred to by a separate Packages file, if that makes any difference to you
[06:58] <Kamion> lamont: um, help. What happened to royal's recent livefs build? The log looks fine, but there are no images.
[06:58] <Kamion> log> apart from a few "Failed to open terminal" messages somewhere in the middle
[07:05] <Diziet> kamion: Perhaps that means they're left out of the (apparently badly synthesised) md5sums.
[07:06] <Kamion> ah, could be
[07:13] <ogra> Kamion, hmm, looks like the netfg error in the installer is still there ...
[07:13] <ogra> (sorry for not noticing earlier, i just dicovered in my current install)
[07:16] <\sh> hmm...
[07:17] <zyga> this place is too silent...
[07:18] <ogra> creative silence ;)
[07:18] <bddebian> zyga: :)
[07:18] <zyga> creative noise about silence
[07:19] <zyga> I wonder if managers who spy on their workers prefer creative silence or mystical noise that they don't understand
[07:19] <tseng> my connection goes over ssh
[07:19] <\sh> I'm surprised, what u can find out when u surf over all blog sites of debian and ubuntu people
[07:19] <tseng> so i hope they refer AES
[07:19] <tseng> +p
[07:19] <\sh> really amazing...
[07:20] <zyga> \sh: what did you find?
[07:20] <zyga> \sh: I've just discovered a whole network of polish ubuntu people
[07:21] <zyga> (I do feel lonely, nationality-wise, here)
[07:21] <\sh> ;)
[07:21] <zyga> sh any pbuilder tutorial you can offer?
[07:22] <ogra> zyga, look at the wiki
[07:22] <siretart> zyga: the ubuntu wiki is quite nice, imo
[07:22] <siretart> the one in the ubuntu wiki
[07:22] <zyga> checking
[07:22] <zyga> ah :)
[07:23] <zyga> step by step :-)
[07:24] <bddebian> Heya pitti
[07:24] <zyga> pitti: hey :)
[07:24] <pitti> Hi
[07:24] <pitti> Hi zyga
[07:24] <bddebian> pitti: rhdb-admin is b0rked even with the libpgtcl :(
[07:25] <bddebian> pitti: Oh and btw, are you the mozilla master?
[07:25] <mdz> ogra: what's this about mdetect?
[07:26] <ogra> mdz, apparently it isnt used by xorg anymore
[07:26] <pitti> Hi mdz
[07:26] <pitti> bddebian: no, I refuse to be :-)
[07:26] <ogra> i didnt think about ltsp in ubuntu when i added it to the edubuntu-server seed
[07:26] <mdz> apparently not
[07:26] <pitti> bddebian: well, I will update mozilla to 1.7.12 tomorrow
[07:26] <ogra> mdz, so it can go from ltsp-build-client it seems
[07:26] <mdz> ogra: why did you add it to the edubuntu server seed?
[07:27] <mdz> ogra: it can, but it's harmless there and I'm going to leave it for breezy unless there's a reason to change it
[07:27] <ogra> because ltsp-buildclient didnt work without it
[07:27] <bddebian> pitti: Well I was curious because I wonder if all the mozilla-locale-* on UnmetDeps should be morgued?
[07:27] <mdz> dholbach: did you receive my mail about gthumb?
[07:27] <Keybuk> didn't mdetect used to detect mice, and we decided that "/dev/input/mice" was the right thing
[07:27] <dholbach> mdz: yes, i did
[07:27] <Keybuk> though how do we detect synaptics pads?
[07:27] <mdz> ok
[07:27] <ogra> mdz, then we need toadd it to ship in ubuntu too...
[07:27] <dholbach> mdz: but i didn't reply yet - will do
[07:28] <mdz> ogra: hasn't it been in ship since warty?
[07:28] <ogra> mdz, it seems KAmion removed it when it wasnt needed anymore
[07:28] <pitti> bddebian: oh, are they out of sync again?
[07:28] <ogra> and i only added it to edubuntu
[07:28] <pitti> bddebian: we actually want to drop mozilla support in Breezy
[07:28] <Kamion> no we don't need to add it to ship in Ubuntu
[07:28] <zyga> hmm will breezy get the new icon theme?
[07:28] <bddebian> pitti: Yeah they are built for 1.6.something
[07:28] <zyga> I've just stumbled upon it
[07:28] <zyga> it's quite nice
[07:28] <bddebian> pitti: That's what I thought
[07:28] <pitti> bddebian: oh, we should have more current ones
[07:29] <ogra> Kamion, ah, yes, it was pulled in as dependency...
[07:29] <pitti> bddebian: for the more current ones (1.7.x) it is enough to loose the dependencies to make them installable
[07:29] <mdz> Kamion: the CD should contain everything ltsp-build-client needs
[07:29] <mdz> but if it's already gone I suppose I need to  unbreak ltsp-build-client
[07:29] <Kamion> ogra: no, it shouldn't be on the breezy CDs at all
[07:29] <pitti> bddebian: but it takes some time to do that (easy, though)
[07:29] <Kamion> mdz: it's been gone for ages; I would like to fight for every scrap of space I can
[07:29] <bddebian> pitti: I'll do it but I won't know if they "work", but they will build ;-)
[07:29] <dholbach> i need do some last-minute-shopping - brb
[07:30] <Kamion> though I realise it's small
[07:30] <pitti> bddebian: just relax the version constraint in the mozilla dependency
[07:30] <pitti> bddebian: the 1.6.x ones should be kicked
[07:30] <ogra> changing it in ltsp-build-client is trivial
[07:30] <Kamion> the change is well over a month old though
[07:30] <pitti> bddebian: or synced from Debian if sid has a recent version
[07:30] <mdz> Kamion: then we should revisit emacs and thunderbird
[07:30] <mdz> which in my opinion are entirely out of scope for ship
[07:30] <bddebian> pitti: No newer versions in Debian :-(
[07:31] <mdz> that is a seriously non-trivial amount of space
[07:31] <Kamion> mdz: happy to, but I thought I'd lost the thunderbird argument
[07:31] <ogra> mdz, ubuntu already has mayn thiderbird users, you'll piss them off...
[07:31] <pitti> Diziet: 1.0.7-0ubuntu15 -  thanks! any particular reason against -0ubuntu1?
[07:31] <mdz> mdetect is 16 _k_
[07:31] <ogra> *many thunderbird
[07:31] <mdz> ogra: it would if we removed it from main, ure
[07:31] <mdz> sure
[07:32] <mdz> but I suggest we move it from ship to supported and keep it in main
[07:32] <mdz> along with emacs
[07:32] <bddebian> pitti: Sorry, you say that the 1.6 ones should be dropped from the archive or just update the dep version to the newer Mozilla?
[07:33] <pitti> bddebian: the 1.7.x should be dependency-updated to make them installable with any 1.7.x; 1.6.x should either be updated to 1.7.x (with debian syncs, possibly) or kicked
[07:33] <mdz> pitti: 1.0.7 of what?
[07:33] <bddebian> kicked == dropped?
[07:34] <pitti> mdz: firefox
[07:34] <mdz> pitti: surely you're joking
[07:34] <pitti> bddebian: yes
[07:34] <pitti> mdz: hm?
[07:34] <mdz> pitti: for breezy?
[07:35] <pitti> mdz: yes, just read it on b-changes
[07:35] <mdz> who approved it?
[07:35] <mdz> Kamion?
[07:35] <pitti> well, we are discussing this since weeks...
[07:35] <Kamion> no, I assumed it was already approved since nobody asked
[07:35] <mdz> discussion is one thing and upload is another.  we are in a freeze.
[07:36] <Kamion> but I wasn't paying attention due to colony release bits
[07:36] <pitti> mdz: uh, sorry
[07:37] <mdz> Diziet: ping
[07:37] <pitti> mdz: I thought we agreed to doing new upstream versions for mozilla foo?
[07:37] <mdz> pitti: there is only one standing exception for upstreamversionfreeze, and that is GNOME
[07:37] <Kamion> however the prevailing opinion seemed to be that it was too hard to extract the relevant patches, so I'm not sure what else I could've said had people asked
[07:38] <mdz> Kamion: you could've referred them to me
[07:38] <Kamion> mdz: well, I would have done
[07:38] <mdz> ok :-)
[07:38] <Kamion> I don't take decisions about firefox :-)
[07:38] <Keybuk> "firefox, scary, run away!"
[07:38] <mdz> mjg59: how big is this slmodem stuff, in terms of CD space?
[07:39] <Kamion> but, sorry, should've been paying attention earlier. I assumed that since there was apparently a standing exception for new upstream versions of firefox in *stable releases*, that it must be OK for breezy
[07:41] <mdz> that would be a fairly reasonable assumption
[07:41] <ogra> *his
[07:41] <mdz> if in fact there were such a standing exception
[07:42] <Kamion> aha
[07:42] <jdub> and if that were its real name
[07:42] <mdz> I only recall taking a decision on 1.0.6
[07:44] <Kamion> hmm. recriminations aside, what now?
[07:44] <mdz> now we wait and see and hope it isn't a fuckup
[07:44] <mdz> and if it is, we back it out like in Warty
[07:44] <pitti> mdz: so in terms of fixing stables, I start to backport tomorrow?
[07:45] <Kamion> well, Colony 5 is waiting on today's kernel upload, which is pending RSN
[07:45] <mdz> pitti: I didn't realize you were expecting to push every new firefox release into -security.  is it already impossible to patch 1.0.6?
[07:45] <pitti> mdz: depends on how much we want to do
[07:45] <mdz> Kamion: and will take hours to build
[07:45] <pitti> mdz: I already patched the hyphen vuln some time ago
[07:45] <mdz> we ought to do kernel uploads on wednesdays
[07:45] <Kamion> so there's time for firefox 1.0.7 to build and be in the install CD side of that at least, which means it should get good visibility
[07:45] <pitti> mdz: the other vuln (shell injection) isn't hard to patch, either
[07:46] <Kamion> mdz: I don't expect to get an early night tonight
[07:46] <mdz> pitti: but you were going to push 1.0.7 implicitly anyway?
[07:46] <pitti> mdz: but 1.0.7 contains a whole bunch of undocumented patches to "fix regressions in 1.0.7 and add stability patches", and it's next to impossible to backport them
[07:47] <pitti> mdz: well, I had started to build 1.0.7 for warty and hoary and test it for a day, yes
[07:47] <mdz> we don't generally backport random bugfixes
[07:47] <pitti> mdz: right, but they fixed regressions introduced in other security patches
[07:47] <Kamion> as Diziet observed, it's hard to tell what crasher bugs fixed in 1.0.7 could also be security bugs
[07:47] <pitti> that's why I would have liked to test them first before starting to backport
[07:47] <mdz> Diziet's observations aside, he needs to follow the release guidelines like everyone else
[07:47] <Kamion> so that would require some analysis
[07:48] <pitti> but backporting the one outstanding vuln is fine, too
[07:48] <Kamion> mdz: I'm talking more about what should be done now than about what should have been done earlier
[07:49] <pitti> mdz: sorry, then I had a totally wrong assumption; /me erases the exception from his mind
[07:50] <mdz> pitti: it's certainly possible if you feel that it's the best approach, but it does require discussion and approval
[07:50] <Diziet> Wooah, scrool.
[07:50] <mdz> on a case-by-case basis
[07:51] <pitti> mdz: ok, noted
[07:51] <Kamion> I'll upload debian-installer and leave it to dep-wait on the new kernels
[07:52] <Diziet> mdz: Are you suggesting that we ought to try to read the diff between 1.0.6 and 1.0.7 to try to decide (a) which changes fix security problems and (b) whether we think the change is correct ?
[07:53] <pitti> Diziet: no, this way madness lies, unless you truly understand the code
[07:53] <Diziet> Because I don't think that we can find a sensible and comprehensive list of what security fixes are included and we also will probably not find out if any new bugs in 1.0.6 get discovered later.
[07:53] <pitti> Diziet: if we backport, then only the critical security patches, which are documented in the changelog
[07:54] <Diziet> mdz: Of course if there's some release rule that I'm breaking then that's bad and we should talk about it.
[07:54] <mdz> Diziet: as regards the security update, there's a discussion to be held about it
[07:54] <Diziet> But I thought Kamion was entitled to authorise updates ?
[07:54] <mdz> Diziet: as regards the breezy upload, yes, that broke a rule
[07:54] <Kamion> Diziet: I am generally, but was not aware that this needed authorisation
[07:54] <mdz> Diziet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyReleaseSchedule
[07:54] <Kamion> 14:30 < Diziet> pitti: Yes, I'll update firefox.  I assume this is cause for an exception ot UVF ?
[07:54] <Kamion> 14:31 < pitti> Diziet: yes, we have a general exception for that even for stable releases (if we test everythign properly, etc.)
[07:54] <Kamion> the certainty in pitti's statement led me to assume it had already been approved
[07:55] <pitti> Diziet: right, I just learned that this rule was not as general as I remembered
[07:55] <Diziet> kamion: Quite so.  I'm not sure I make a distinction between `person who is authorised to make exception to rule makes exception' and `that person thinks rule does not apply or has standing exception'.
[07:55] <Kamion> since pitti's not normally in the habit of breaking UVF without checking first
[07:55] <Diziet> But I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.
[07:55] <pitti> not for non-mozilla stuff, right
[07:55] <Diziet> So let's talk about both breezy and the security update.
[07:55] <Kamion> Diziet: (I think you were acting in good faith)
[07:56] <Kamion> anyway, got to go
[07:56] <Diziet> OK, TTFN.
[07:57] <Diziet> mdz: So, then, obviously my current opinion is that we should take the new upstream into warty, hoary and breezy.
[07:58] <pitti> at least we have an option this time, unlike the 0.9.3->1.0.6 upgrade, where we were basically forced to do the jump
[07:59] <mdz> Diziet: yes, Kamion has explained how the misunderstanding happened
[07:59] <Diziet> Oh, good.
[07:59] <Diziet> So let's get on to the meat of the question.
[08:00] <infinity> mdz : Is cron.daily failing and/or running eternally?
[08:01] <mdz> infinity: dunno
[08:01] <infinity> mdz : I'm waiting on uploads of 1/2 hours old, respectively, to show up in wanna-build.
[08:01] <pitti> Diziet, mdz: my proposal: we backport the patch for the single major vuln now for stables, and if more things arise, we can still update stables to 1.0.7; at that time we have better testing of 1.0.7 in breezy
[08:02] <Diziet> What makes you think there's only this `single major' vuln ?
[08:02] <mdz> Diziet: because Mozilla has finally acknowledged that they need to tell the community about vulnerabilities
[08:02] <mdz> pitti: you're on their new list now,  right?
[08:03] <pitti> mdz: yes, on mozilla-security@ or sth similar
[08:03] <mdz> pitti: security-announce
[08:03] <mdz> which is different from security-group, which you may be on
[08:03] <pitti> mdz: I asked them to grant me access to embargoed bugs, and I have now
[08:03] <pitti><EMAIL_ADDRESS>right
[08:04] <Diziet> The website is rather short of detail.  You have more information than is in the 1.0.7 release notes ?
[08:04] <Robot101> and we thought Theo was bad :P
[08:04] <mdz> pitti: ok, good
[08:04] <pitti> Diziet: there are not even MFSAs for the things fixed in 1.0.7, let alone bug xrefs
[08:04] <mdz> rather than using the existing lists shared by all open source projects for this purpose, they decided to create another list of their own
[08:04] <pitti> (yet)
[08:05] <Diziet> So do you have a list of the things fixed ?
[08:05] <mdz> but at least they are going to make announcements
[08:06] <mdz> pitti: if you don't have a list, please ask the security group for one
[08:06] <pitti> mdz: I have a list
[08:06] <mdz> they don't always understand that vendors need this kind of information
[08:07] <Diziet> And, for all the things on their list, how can you tell whether they're vulnerabilities ?
[08:07] <pitti> moment, please
[08:07] <Diziet> Can you show me this list or is that forbidden ?
[08:08] <Diziet> -anarres:upstream> grep -v '^Only' 1.0.6-1.0.7.diff | wc -l
[08:08] <Diziet> 2973
[08:08] <Diziet> I'm reading that diff now.
[08:09] <Diziet> Looking at it I'm pretty sure it has fixes for other vulns in it but my knowledge of the code is not sufficient to decide for certain for each included patch.
[08:09] <infinity> mdz : Meh, cron.daily definitely seems confused... A bunch of binaries uploaded by the buildds have never hit "installed" either.
[08:09] <Diziet> I applied it to warty and hoary and it applies cleanly apart from the fact that it includes our existing security fix.
[08:10] <Diziet> Which strongly suggests it's full of fixes that we need.
[08:10] <Diziet> I'm also fairly convinced that some evil person reading the same diff will see it as a rich mine of possibilities.
[08:10] <pitti> Diziet: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/MFSA2005-57.html
[08:11] <pitti> Diziet: this is the one we have already fixed
[08:11] <mdz> infinity: wanna-build is running right now
[08:11] <pitti> Diziet: http://people.ubuntu.com/~pitti/MFSA2005-58.html
[08:11] <pitti> Diziet: these are the other issues
[08:11] <infinity> mdz : As in "just started again", or "is still running"?
[08:11] <mdz> infinity: started at :10
[08:11] <pitti> Diziet: this does not include the shell injection, though, which is also fixed in 1.0.7
[08:12] <infinity> mdz : Hrm.  Curious.  Did you have to nudge it?
[08:12] <infinity> mdz : Cause it's very obviously not run (well, not COMPLETED) for hours.
[08:12] <Diziet> pitti: Right, the IDN fix is the one that I saw we'd already applied.
[08:12] <pitti> Diziet: I'm fairly sure that we want the other fixes in 58 as well
[08:12] <Diziet> pitt: Um, isn't that secret ?
[08:12] <Diziet> I mean your draft MFSA.
[08:12] <pitti> Diziet: what for, 1.0.7 is out
[08:12] <Diziet> I see.
[08:12] <mdz> infinity: there's a traceback in the cron.daily output
[08:13] <pitti> and everybody can access their cvs
[08:13] <Diziet> OK, up to them what their rules are I suppose.
[08:13] <infinity> mdz : Huzzah.
[08:13] <infinity> mdz : Time to page elmo, I guess.
[08:13] <pitti> Diziet: they might embargo the single patches in some bugs
[08:13] <Diziet> Yes, right, lots of those things look like the same kind of things as are in that diff.
[08:13] <pitti> Diziet: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=300936 - see?
[08:13] <Diziet> Is this a supposedly complete list of changes between 1.0.6 and 1.0.7 ?
[08:13] <mdz> infinity: but it seems to have completed successfully anyway
[08:14] <mdz> looks like it choked on one upload but processed the rest
[08:14] <Diziet> Access Denied
[08:14] <infinity> mdz : Nope, it didn't.
[08:14] <Diziet> You are not authorized to access bug #300936.
[08:14] <pitti> Diziet: right, I'm not either
[08:14] <infinity> mdz : Several source uploads haven't been processed, and several binary uploads.
[08:14] <jdub> elmo: ping
[08:14] <pitti> Diziet: apparently they only gave me access to the 1.0.6 issues
[08:14] <Diziet> I'm not sure what you're demonstrating but obviously if you think it's OK to publish it then fine, I'll just take your word for that.  I don't know about their processes.
[08:14] <mdz> infinity: it claims to have processed the d-i source upload
[08:15] <mdz> and isdnutils
[08:15] <mdz> in the last run
[08:15] <Diziet> So do we know if this is a complete list of changes in 1.0.7 ?
[08:15] <infinity> mdz : Interesting. Does it claim anything about l-r-m in previous runs? :)
[08:15] <pitti> Diziet: should be, but they did not state that
[08:15] <pitti> Diziet: they sent a long a 30K tar.gz with all patches, which is just the cvs diff between 1.0.6 and 1.0.7
[08:16] <Diziet> Yes, well, I can make that for myself, can't I ?
[08:16] <pitti> Diziet: right
[08:16] <Diziet> What are we supposed to do, read it ?
[08:16] <pitti> Diziet: I remove the HTML again, in case they object to it
[08:16] <pitti> Diziet: we are supposed to upgrade to 1.0.7, according to them
[08:16] <infinity> mdz : l-r-m, nvidia-settings (source) are definitely not processed, a random ancient binary upload I looked at (lm-sensors) was also stuck (unless it's in NEW..)
[08:16] <mdz> infinity: just an hppa l-r-m binary upload in NEW
[08:17] <mdz> l-r-m is stuck in accepted
[08:17] <Diziet> pitti: Yes, but it would be nice to be able to decide that for themselves.  What is this, Micro$haft or Free Software ?  They should provide us with the support to help us make that decision.
[08:17] <Diziet> s/for them/for our/
[08:17] <infinity> mdz : Right.  That's about what I thought.
[08:17] <mdz> infinity: it's an elmo situation
[08:17] <pitti> Diziet: many folks asked them for a very long time, and they won't help us to backport
[08:18] <pitti> Diziet: we can get the patches they applied, but that will only help us for e. g. 1.0.6->1.0.7
[08:18] <pitti> Diziet: we totally failed to apply 1#0.5 patches to 1.0.2
[08:18] <infinity> mdz : Can you page him for me?  I'm off to bed, so don't really want to stay up explaning the breakage when he comes and asks. :)
[08:18] <pitti> Diziet: and even more so to 0.9.3
[08:18] <Diziet> There is at least one lot of fixes in that code that look security-related but don't look like one of the ones in that MFSA.
[08:18] <pitti> Diziet: right, there is the shell injection fix which was not mentioned in the mfsa
[08:18] <Keybuk> mjg59: about? :p
[08:18] <infinity> mdz : He's requested to be paged about stuff like this, though (and it's not exactly an oddball, middle-of-the-night time, so I don't feel too guilty)
[08:18] <mdz> pitti: but 1.0.6 is what we have in both warty and hoary now, right?
[08:18] <Diziet> There's no point us simply mechanically applying the 1.0.6->1.0.7 patches individually.
[08:19] <pitti> Diziet: this one is crucial
[08:19] <pitti> mdz: right
[08:19] <Diziet> The only reason to do that would be if we thought we might want to leave some of them out.
[08:19] <pitti> Diziet: only if you choose only some of them
[08:19] <Diziet> Right.
[08:19] <Diziet> But if the only way to do that is to read the diffs I might as well read the whole damn diff.
[08:20] <pitti> Diziet: you can also go though the bug reports, once they become public
[08:20] <pitti> but that will last for 14 days
[08:20] <pitti> and we don't want to leave open critical holes like the ones fixed open for so long (again)
[08:21] <mdz> infinity: yeah, done
[08:21] <Diziet> I've nearly finished reading this diff now.
[08:21] <Diziet> There's a change to the startup script.  Do you know what that is ?
[08:21] <pitti> Diziet: no, at this time I know less than you about the code
[08:22] <Diziet> Right.  It looks like a fix for shell quoting problems.
[08:22] <pitti> Diziet: at least it looks like that they did not add new features this time
[08:23] <pitti> Diziet: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=195796 <- this is the quoting patch
[08:23] <Diziet> pitti: Yep.
[08:24] <Diziet> Shame there's four copies of that damn script.  Oh well.
[08:24] <Diziet> OK, I've reviewed the whole diff.
[08:24] <mdz> pitti: you added openoffice.org-debian-files to the main inclusion wiki page, but it seems to already be in breezy/main
[08:24] <Diziet> mdz: I've looked at the 1.0.6 to 1.0.7 diff and:
[08:24] <pitti> Diziet: any new features?
[08:24] <pitti> mdz: oh, doko asked me to ack it again, but it's a no-ob anyway (it was in hoary)
[08:24] <pitti> mdz: we apparently need it for smooth upgrades to breezy
[08:25] <Diziet> I wasn't able to convince myself that all of the changes were correct.  But they all look like security changes and nothing seemed wrong.
[08:25] <mdz> pitti: there's nothing to ack if it's already in main :-)
[08:25] <mdz> Diziet: good, thanks for reviewing it
[08:25] <Diziet> wasn't able to convince> Because of lack of context.
[08:25] <pitti> mdz: so much the better :-)
[08:25] <Diziet> I could go and check but that would take quite a bit longer because I'd have to actually understand each bit of code properly.
[08:25] <Diziet> Certainly nothing resembling a new feature and the biggest changes are the ones which correspond clearly to the descriptions of security fixes in the MFSA.
[08:26] <Diziet> So on that basis I'm now completely convinced that we should move to 1.0.7 immediately for all releases.
[08:26] <mdz> Diziet: we don't need to convince ourselves that everything is correct, but that they're meeting our expectation of conservativeness
[08:26] <Diziet> Right.  We'll, I'm certainly convinced of that.
[08:26] <mdz> Diziet: because in the past, they have not
[08:26] <Diziet> I see.
[08:26] <Diziet> Well they've done what looks like a reasonable job here.
[08:27] <pitti> Diziet: good, it seems they finally reacted to the complaints about new features in earlier 1.0.x
[08:27] <Diziet> (It's a shame that there's no coherent and complete list of the changes.  That's the only thing they could have done better.)
[08:27] <pitti> Diziet: I assume they will publish the MFSAs soon
[08:27] <pitti> Diziet: these usually contain xrefs to bugs
[08:27] <Diziet> mdz: So what else do you need to approve it into {warty,hoary}-security and breezy ?
[08:28] <mdz> Diziet: the reason we're so paranoid about new upstreams is that they are unpredictable
[08:28] <mdz> most of them are undisciplined when it comes to releases
[08:28] <pitti> Diziet: the problem at 1.0.2 -> 1.0.5 was that these patches in the bugs caused regressions, and they did not document the patches that fixed these regressions
[08:28] <mdz> they'll break compatibility, introduce disruptive new features, etc. and call it a bugfix point release
[08:28] <pitti> Diziet: I applied all the patches manually, wiggled them into the older source and got something totally unstable
[08:29] <Diziet> mdz: Right.
[08:29] <mdz> Diziet: it's a bit late for breezy as the source is already in the archive, but for warty and hoary it should get the usual battery of testing from pitti, which I understand he's already started on
[08:29] <pitti> mdz: I plan to do it tomorrow, I fixed langpacks today
[08:29] <mdz> pitti: !
[08:30] <mdz> pitti: fixed as in ready for upload?
[08:30] <Diziet> Damn, my test build of the warty version has failed too.  And I've got too few machines.
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: my statement above was in the conjunctive
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: well, I examined the new tarball
[08:30] <Diziet> pitti: You've got some testing to do ?
[08:30] <Diziet> In which case, where should I send my .dsc and .diff.gz ?
[08:30] <pitti> mdz: it looks almost good; it is just out of date (will be fixed soon) and introduces regressisons (macros in strings are not validated)
[08:30] <Diziet> They're ready except I haven't been able to do a test build and install yet.
[08:31] <mdz> pitti: so not ready, then
[08:31] <pitti> mdz: no, by fixing I meant preparing langpack-o-matic for the import and add workarounds for some Rosetta bugs
[08:31] <mdz> pitti: oh, fixed langpack-o-matic rather than fixed langpacks ;-)
[08:31] <pitti> mdz: yes, sorry
[08:31] <mdz> pitti: speaking of which, you need to train someone else on langpack-o-matic
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: I just thought about that today
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: once Rosetta export actually works, I'd like to show the mechanics to somebody
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: right now it's  much manual hacking when we create the archives ourselves
[08:32] <pitti> mdz: at UBZ would be a good opportunity
[08:33] <Keybuk> I smell a BOF ;)
[08:33] <mdz> pitti: it's on my list for UBZ
[08:33] <mdz> already
[08:33] <pitti> that would be nice
[08:33] <pitti> physical contact is better for training
[08:34] <pitti> mdz: since mozilla and tbird have the same fixes, I assume the same arguments apply to them?
[08:34] <Diziet> pitti:  My packages are at  http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ian/d/
[08:35] <mdz> pitti: yes
[08:35] <mdz> argh, this #ubuntu-unregged thing is very irritating
[08:35] <Diziet> (the hoary version is just arriving now)
[08:35] <pitti> Diziet: I meant that last time I actualyl used the new hoary and warty packages for a day before I released them
[08:35] <Diziet> Oh, right.
[08:35] <pitti> Diziet: I can test tbird and moz, can you test ffox?
[08:35] <Keybuk> ubuntu-unregged?
[08:36] <Diziet> I thought mdz meant you had some kind of testing arrangements.
[08:36] <pitti> Diziet: oh, good that you show them to me - we need to fix this version number mess
[08:36] <pitti> Diziet: no, just plain dpkg -i and using it :-)
[08:36] <pitti> Diziet: for moz and tbird we did the right thing and named them 0ubuntu0.4.10 and 0ubuntu0.5.4
[08:37] <Diziet> Version number mess ?
[08:37] <pitti> 0.5.04 even
[08:37] <Diziet> Does it matter ?
[08:37] <pitti> Diziet: 0.0.1 vs 0.1 and so on
[08:37] <Diziet> That's somewhat nicer, true.
[08:37] <pitti> Diziet: it doesn't really matter, but we should aim for consistency
[08:37] <pitti> Diziet: we found this solution after we updated ffox already
[08:37] <Diziet> OK.  Well we'll do that next time.  I don't want to faff with repackaging these huge files now.
[08:38] <pitti> Diziet: oh, it's just a change in the changelog and debuild -S -sa?
[08:39] <Diziet> pitti: Yes, but it's quite slow on ffox.  Maybe my machine is too slow but I don't want to add faff to a security update.    I have to stop soon or I won't get any dinner.
[08:40] <pitti> Diziet: ok, so can you run both versions for half a day to check them?
[08:40] <Diziet> Well, I can give them a brief test.
[08:40] <pitti> Diziet: running them in an actual warty and hoary dchroot is necessary
[08:41] <Diziet> But I can't `use' them like I normally do my browser and if I could it wouldn't be a good test because I'm _so_ weird about how a browser has to behave.
[08:41] <pitti> Diziet: last time I had trouble with language packs, but I think I fixed them once and for all
[08:41] <Diziet> pitti: I have a warty install here and I'm going to have a hoary one soon too.
[08:41] <pitti> Diziet: I run them in dchroots, works fine
[08:41] <Diziet> Yeah, but what are testbed machines for ? :-)
[08:42] <pitti> sure, if you have some, even better :-)
[08:42] <Diziet> I don't like giving the chroot my X display :-).
[08:42] <pitti> Diziet: no need to release them today, one day of proper testing should be done
[08:43] <Diziet> Is there an easy way for me to get the build infrastructure to produce .debs for people to test ?
[08:43] <pitti> Diziet: just build them?
[08:43] <pitti> Diziet: alternatively you can upload them, and I toss you the debs from the buildds
[08:43] <Diziet> IWBNI I could generate them in the colo.  Saves on uploading and also my warty install isn't quite ready yet.  I didn't know until just now I'd need it.
[08:43] <pitti> Diziet: however, if something goes wrong, that requires a reupload
[08:44] <Diziet> What, if I upload these to warty-security, the buildds will build them but they won't get published ?
[08:44] <pitti> Diziet: right
[08:44] <Diziet> That would be just right.
[08:44] <pitti> Diziet: they will land in my approval queue
[08:44] <Diziet> And mdz isn't going to object to doing it like that ? :-)
[08:44] <pitti> Diziet: alternatively you can do one test build on concordia
[08:45] <pitti> Diziet: oh, as long as I don't release the files, we can always supersede or remove them
[08:45] <Diziet> No, I'm pretty confident of these.  I don't think a reupload will be needed unless I patched a wrong patch in the wrong direction or something.
[08:45] <pitti> Diziet: but you should do at least one successful build
[08:45] <Diziet> OK.
[08:45] <pitti> Diziet: concordia's hoary dchroot has the b-deps
[08:45] <Diziet> I've built it on breezy.  My warty system is currently slurping security updates ...
[08:45] <pitti> ok
[08:46] <pitti> Diziet: well, as I said, I will make the debs accessible for you for testing once they built
[08:46] <Diziet> Right.  OK, I'll set the upload going now then and pick up the .debs in the morning.
[08:55] <jcohen85> jbailey: hey, is the new version of a inframfs-tools up yet?
[08:56] <jcohen85> jbailey: Matt Zimmerman says the pause is probably caused by a SCSI controller. I don't think my motherboard has a SCSI controller.
[08:58] <Diziet> pitti: the hoary one is on its way; warty will follow after a few kiloseconds.  Have fun, and see you tomorrow.
[08:58] <ogra> but if you have one he is right... my controller probes drives about 30sec before the booting goes on...
[08:58] <pitti> Diziet: thanks, enjoy the evening
[08:58] <ogra> night Diziet
[08:59] <Diziet> Goodnight ...
[08:59] <\sh> elmo: please sync clamav 0.87 from unstable (universe that is), thx
[09:00] <jbailey> jcohen85: Not yet, just a sec.
[09:00] <\sh> eeks..https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=307185
[09:00] <\sh> thunderbird update will come tomorrow? ,-)
[09:00] <jbailey> jcohen85: What this will do is add a debug option, which will drop a debug feil in your /dev
[09:00] <pitti> yes, yes
[09:00] <jbailey> jcohen85: Hopefully we can then see what's happening.
[09:01] <\sh> pitti: but it's a surprise, that only the linux version is vulnerable strange..
[09:01] <pitti> \sh: no shell interpolation in Windows
[09:02] <zyga> \sh: windows had it's share of shell vounurability half a year ago
[09:03] <\sh> pitti: what about cygwin usage? if you say that the default commandline shell is bash?
[09:03] <\sh> no
[09:03] <ogra> \sh, that will surely affect the masses :)
[09:03] <Treenaks> ogra: cynic
[09:03] <ogra> :)
[09:04] <Treenaks> ogra: ;)
[09:04] <\sh> ogra: aehm...cygwin is my first thing I install on any windows workstation...ok..I'm not the mass ,-)
[09:05] <ogra> depends how you define mass...
[09:05] <bddebian> heh
[09:06] <\sh> ogra: EENOTAN00B "See also bug 309551, same bug on Windows (with Cygwin)."
[09:07] <\sh> Treenaks: I have to run'n'hide now, but think of Thomas Anders from Modern Talking with a nice, well feed, belly *run*
[09:08] <Treenaks> \sh: who?
[09:08] <\sh> s/feed/fed/
[09:08] <Treenaks> \sh: that must be before my time
[09:08] <\sh> Treenaks: ---> ogra
[09:08] <ogra> grmpf
[09:08] <ogra> ;)
[09:08] <Treenaks> \sh: generation gap etc.
[09:08] <\sh> Treenaks: http://www.fortunecity.com/lavendar/brazil/108/musikk/moderntalking/moderntalking.jpg -> the right one is thomas anders
[09:09] <ogra> \sh, i dont wear a nora sign
[09:09] <\sh> OT
[09:12] <\sh> ogra: hmm..."suse" is a better sign for you ;)
[09:13] <ogra> heh
[09:15] <jdub> *cough*very*quietly*not*announced* http://fridge.ubuntu.com/
[09:16] <\sh> THEFRIDGE?
[09:16] <\sh> wooow
[09:16] <ogra> FRIDGE !
[09:16] <pitti> jdub: \o/
[09:17] <\sh> JDUB ROCKS DA HOUSE
[09:17] <Riddell> where is fridge?
[09:17] <ogra> yeah 73% pro cool codenames :)
[09:17] <Riddell> ah, I see
[09:20] <\sh> maswan / Mithrandir: could one of you please install apt-get build-dep gcc-2.95 in ravel breezy chroot, thx :)
[09:21] <slomo> \sh: will probably fail because of cpp-2.95 build-dependency... better search the packages really needed by hand ;)
[09:22] <\sh> slomo: ok
[09:22] <\sh> maswan / Mithrandir: could one of you please install apt-get install dejagnu gperf  bison-1.35 flex-old texinfo libgc-dev libgmp3-dev help2man in ravel breezy chroot, thx :)
[09:23] <\sh> slomo: u right..I just changed the control file
[09:23] <\sh> jdub: the fonts are too big
[09:24] <jdub> \sh: in general, i prefer to leave that to your browser instead of trying to force some independently informed measurement of the world on you :)
[09:25] <ogra> for me the fonst look ok
[09:25] <ogra> *fonts
[09:25] <jdub> you must have your browser set so that all the other ubuntu sites don't look like poo with their tiny fonts ;)
[09:25] <slomo> for me, too
[09:26] <ogra> heh
[09:26] <jdub> well "awesome" is definitely winning
[09:26] <\sh> jdub: i make a screenshot...then you know what i mean ;)
[09:26] <jdub> :)
[09:26] <jdub> thanks
[09:27] <Nafallo> jdub: how public will you want the fridge atm? topic on #ubuntu.se? :-)
[09:27] <jdub> word of mouth is fine :)
[09:27] <jdub> i'm just not going to make a big announcement yet
[09:27] <Nafallo> oki :-)
[09:27] <\sh> http://linux.blogweb.de/uploads/screenshot-20050922.png <- 14.1" hp nc6000 display, standard started firefox on ubuntu desktop
[09:27] <Nafallo> topic that is :-P
[09:28] <jdub> \sh: mm, so your browser default font size is pretty big
[09:28] <jdub> morning edd
[09:28] <\sh> jdub: this is what was installed...and it is like this from hoary times ;)
[09:29] <edd> jdub: :-)
[09:29] <ogra> it looks the same here, but i dont find it to big
[09:29] <\sh> jdub: and when I decrease the font size, than I can't read the left part anymore..but then the middle part is ok
[09:30] <jdub> oh, bizaare
[09:30] <\sh> jdub: and believe me I'm blind without my glasses
[09:30] <jdub> those sizes seem to be pretty comparable on my machine
[09:30] <jdub> yours are obviously quite different
[09:30] <jdub> strange
[09:31] <edd> so, don't know if you care, but neither the .debs for skype nor opera will install on breezy, due to libqt3c102-mt version deps
[09:32] <\sh> jdub: w8...I'll make another screenshot with smaller fontsizes
[09:32] <Nafallo> edd: and neither on etch I would guess ;-)
[09:33] <edd> Nafallo: i guess so, but fear heading into another of those 2 year holes where vendors, if they shipped debs at all, built them against ancient stable releases
[09:33] <edd> i guess i should complain to skype and opera.
[09:33] <Nafallo> indeed. we can't do anything AFAIK :-)
[09:34] <Nafallo> or :-(, rather
[09:34] <edd> No, except listen to every complaint, alas.
[09:34] <\sh> jdub: http://linux.blogweb.de/uploads/screenshot-20050922-2.png <- this is smallest size before it's really unreadable anymore...and even this is on the left side too small
[09:34] <\sh> edd: skype is skype..this is an issue to raise towards skype..:(
[09:35] <edd> \sh: sure
[09:35] <jdub> edd: don't worry too much about that 2 year hole
[09:35] <Nafallo> \sh: what are the odd icons you got there? the wolf and the hanglock.
[09:35] <jdub> edd: we're very close to bliss in that regard :-)
[09:35] <jdub> \sh: hmm
[09:36] <jdub> \sh: thanks
[09:36] <edd> jdub: awesome. you always make me happy
[09:36] <edd> jdub: i actually can't say enough how damn happy ubuntu makes me.
[09:36] <\sh> Nafallo: what?
[09:36] <jdub> ok, now tell all those oscon osx lubbers :-)
[09:36] <\sh> what icons?
[09:36] <edd> jdub: dude, i do. i do.
[09:37] <edd> jdub: maybe they'll be less scared now there's usplash
[09:37] <jdub> oh man
[09:37] <jdub> new spam with list-id headers
[09:37] <dholbach> :-)
[09:37] <jdub> bastards
[09:37] <jdub> dholbach: dude!
[09:37] <jdub> dholbach: did you see?
[09:37] <Nafallo> \sh: on the screenshoot,
[09:37] <ogra> dholbach, FRIDGE !
[09:38] <dholbach> MAN
[09:38] <dholbach> SURE! :)
[09:38] <ogra> :)
[09:38] <\sh> Nafallo: hmm...you mean the typewriter? ask jdub ;)
[09:38] <ogra> \sh, he means your panel
[09:39] <ogra> the lightbulb with t-shirt ect
[09:39] <jdub> do you guys have photos of fridges?
[09:39] <Nafallo> \sh: no, on your panel :-)
[09:39] <ogra> *etc
[09:39] <\sh> Nafallo: ah...thats amarok 1.3.x ,-)
[09:39] <\sh> and kgpg
[09:39] <\sh> and the rest is gnome ;)
[09:39] <Nafallo> \sh: baah. kde in gnome? :-P
[09:40] <Nafallo> so utterly crackfull ;-)
[09:40] <\sh> Nafallo: and vice versa...I'm a pimp ,-)
[09:40] <ogra> jdub, not yet... but i'll put some up soon ... where is yours ?
[09:40] <jdub> it is not crackful to run amarok on gnome :-)
[09:40] <jdub> ogra: i posted *the* fridge ;)
[09:40] <Nafallo> jdub: depends on who you ask, my definition is about qt-deps :-P
[09:40] <ogra> jdub, but not *your* fridge :)
[09:40] <jcohen85> jbailey: when will the new package be ready with the debug option? btw, do most mobos have a scsci controller? i thought mine just had IDE and SATA
[09:41] <jdub> ogra: do you have a png of the edubuntu logo?
[09:41] <Riddell> which reminds me amarok 1.3.2 for testing http://kubuntu.org/~jr/amarok/
[09:41] <jdub> Riddell: do you have a png of the kubuntu logo?
[09:41] <jdub> oh, just the device
[09:41] <jdub> not the text
[09:41] <Riddell> jdub: KubuntuArtwork
[09:41] <ogra> jdub, isnt that on the ubuntu frontpage  ?
[09:41] <jdub> i don't think it's transparent
[09:41] <ogra> it is
[09:41] <jdub> ahr
[09:42] <Riddell> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/KubuntuArtwork
[09:42] <jdub> yay kubuntu with a new k
[09:42] <lamont> Kamion: ouch - still working on royal?
[09:42] <jbailey> jcohen85: Most do not.  I'm just trying to sort out to make sure that I actually get the information I need.
[09:43] <jbailey> jcohen85: The problem is that I need to spit out the time for each command at each command.
[09:43] <jbailey> jcohen85: It's more of a hassle than I expected.
[09:43] <jdub> dholbach: :)
[09:43] <Riddell> jdub: I still don't really see the difference
[09:44] <jdub> heh
[09:44] <jdub> <- font fascist
[09:44] <torkel> edd: the old version of skype (<IP_ADDRESS>) is still installable on breezy
[09:44] <edd> torkel: yeah, i got that one still in
[09:44] <ogra> jdub, not in the usplash logo it seems
[09:44] <torkel> edd: me too :-)
[09:45] <ogra> Riddell, i'm no font fascist but i see the difference...
[09:45] <\sh> torkel: but it doesn't work correctly...It was segfaulting all the time for me
[09:46] <\sh> re doko
[09:46] <\sh> doko: should gcc-2.95 compile on all platforms? ;)
[09:48] <lamont> \sh: no
[09:48] <lamont> in fact, I don't think it's existant on any of the 3, is it?
[09:48] <\sh> lamont: i386 == ok, the rest == not ok
[09:48] <ogra> do we even have a source packge?
[09:48] <\sh> ogra: yes
[09:48] <\sh> apt-get source gcc-2.95
[09:49] <ogra> nah, i dont want such old cruft
[09:49] <lamont> \sh: interesting.  I specifically didn't bootstrap it, and ISTR that gcc-2.95 build-depended cpp-2.95
[09:50] <doko> \sh: no, it doesn't build on ia64 and parisc
[09:50] <\sh> lamont: I just installed gcc-2.95 in my chroot...so...finally I'm seeing ghosts, or it's there
[09:50] <ogra> \sh, how much beer did you have today ?
[09:51] <\sh> ogra: 0 nil null nada
[09:51] <ogra> haha, thats what i would say too...
[09:51] <\sh> ogra: the truth
[09:51] <ogra> yeah
[09:51] <bddebian> Grrr, I'm not getting shit done today.. :-(
[09:51] <Riddell> jdub: cool.  how is stuff submitted to the fridge?
[09:52] <jdub> Riddell: atm, please mail<EMAIL_ADDRESS>[09:52] <jdub> we don't have/want normal user logins on the site, so that makes "submit content" a little tricky
[09:52] <jdub> also, we don't have a strong process yet, being so young
[09:52] <jdub> we'll have a better process as we learn how to do it well
[09:53] <Riddell> jdub: would it be possible/sensible to get an RSS kubuntu feed off the fridge so the news on kubuntu.org can just come off that feed?
[09:53] <jdub> absolutely, and you can do it now :)
[09:53] <lamont> \sh: it's there, but nfc why
[09:53] <\sh> ogra: u see..I'm clean ;)
[09:53] <Riddell> kde dot news doesn't have logins and gets surprisingly little spam
[09:53] <jdub> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/taxonomy/term/20/0/feed <- the kubuntu feed :-)
[09:54] <ogra> heh
[09:55] <jdub> Riddell: so when someone random goes to submit content, can they put their name to it? normally with drupal, anon users don't get a name input box
[09:56] <\sh> jdub: what about tricking drupal with a little bit of "AuthServer" magic of launchpad?
[09:57] <Riddell> jdub: yeah, you can put any name in the box.  it's amazing it doesn't get more abuse
[09:57] <jdub> Riddell: but there's no box on the content submission thingy
[09:57] <jdub> \sh: might end up doing that, but not committed to it yet
[09:57] <Riddell> jdub: which content submission thingy?
[09:58] <jdub> n/m, it doesn't use drupal anyway
[10:03] <Riddell> no, squishdot
[10:03] <Riddell> awful thing that has to be restarted every hour
[10:03] <jdub> it's main feature was "not slashcode"
[10:04] <jdub> scared so many gnome people off zope and long-running python processes
[10:05] <Riddell> what does footnotes use?
[10:06] <jdub> drupal now
[10:06] <jdub> it used postnuke for a while
[10:08] <jdub> erk
[10:08] <jdub> i had some random copy-and-paste foo in the 5.10 event description :)
[10:09] <bddebian> Gah is elmo hiding today? :-)
[10:09] <\sh> oh well...
[10:15] <jdong> what is the value behind dpkg's overwrite warnings?
[10:15] <jdong> other than debugging during beta releases
[10:15] <jdong> I'd love to see it replaced with a Continue [Y/n]  message
[10:18] <\sh> jdong: --force-overwrite is your friend?
[10:18] <jdong> yes, it's my friend... but I get tired of saying it on the forums every day
[10:18] <jdong> a user-interactive prompt would be much better
[10:19] <jdong> that'd be awesome to see in Dapper
[10:19] <ogra> --force-overwrite can also break your system totally....
[10:19] <ogra> so i would be very careful with it
[10:20] <ogra> and definately wouldnt put it in a y/n prompt
[10:20] <ogra> jdong, whats up with the backports server ? did you give it up ? there is a lot about it on -users recently
[10:21] <ogra> as well as ubuntuguide.org being not reachable
[10:21] <Keybuk> jdong: you should never see a file overwrite warning, if the package causes one it's buggy and needs either a Replaces, Conflicts, or both added
[10:21] <Keybuk> two packages can't both own the same file
[10:22] <Keybuk> consider foo having /some/file, and bar having the same file -- if you try and install bar, you'll get an overwrite warning
[10:22] <Keybuk> if bar Replaces foo, you won't and the file will be owned by bar
[10:22] <Keybuk> if bar Conflicts foo, then foo needs to be removed first
[10:22] <Keybuk> --force-overwrite is like a Replaces
[10:22] <ogra> but more evil :)
[10:22] <Keybuk> but this means that when you remove bar again, the file is _removed_ and not left on the disk
[10:23] <Keybuk> which may not be what was intended
[10:23] <jdong> ogra: huh? A few packages were removed thanks to legal complaints, but otherwise it's fine AFAIK
[10:23] <ogra> jdong, ah, ok, i think its all about w32codecs, i just looked again...
[10:23] <Keybuk> so thought needs to be put into it to decide whether it's a Replaces, a Conflicts or whether the file needs to be renamed
[10:23] <jdong> keybuk: yeah, but when users install 3rd party packages, it shouldn't completely break APT and need command line intervention. There should be some smarter way built into APT or Synaptic to handle this case
[10:24] <Keybuk> *shrug* the third party packages should be built properly
[10:24] <ogra> jdong, nope, the 3rd party should fix theor package
[10:24] <ogra> their even
[10:24] <bddebian> wb sivang
[10:25] <Keybuk> I've often thought myself that the solution to third party packages is to deter them from trying to participate in /usr and do what Sun do and use /opt
[10:25] <\sh> actually, the 3rd party package should be in universe
[10:25] <\sh> Keybuk: ugh.../usr/local ;)
[10:25] <Keybuk> /usr/local is a duplicate heirachy and should be for user-compiled stuff
[10:25] <\sh> the bsd way ;)
[10:25] <ogra> \sh, skype in universe ?
[10:26] <Keybuk> I dislike /usr/local/realplayer kind of things
[10:26] <Keybuk> /opt/realplayer says it just as well
[10:26] <\sh> ogra: skype should be in multiverse, if we're allowed to distribute it correctly
[10:29] <shawarma> If I have a patch for a package in main (gstreamer in this case) where can I upload it? I don't suppose there's somehting like REVU for main..
[10:29] <\sh> the new kernel? I don't see the sk98lin driver
[10:30] <\sh> the mjg59 version of it :(
[10:30] <Riddell> shawarma: bugzilla would do
[10:30] <shawarma> Riddell: so first file a bug report and the add the patch?
[10:30] <\sh> ah now
[10:30] <Riddell> shawarma: yep
[10:31] <\sh> emoved sky2 driver to be replaced by Matthew's sk98lin driver. - Added external-drivers-net-sk98lin.dpatch
[10:31] <shawarma> Riddell: Ok. Thanks!
[10:31] <\sh> rock
[10:38] <lamont> seb128: ping
[10:39] <seb128> lamont: pong
[10:39] <lamont> seb128: http://buildd.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/x/xffm/1:4.2.1-1/
[10:39] <lamont> wanna tell me what happend that libgsf-1 failed to purge?
[10:40] <lamont> (we removed libgconf2-4, and then later remove libgsf-1...
[10:40] <ogra> grrr
[10:40] <lamont> which then tried to run gconftool-2, and missing shlibs.
[10:40] <lamont> oh, and broken chroot.
[10:40] <lamont> grumble
[10:40] <ogra> why is ports breaking my metapackage again
[10:41] <Kamion> lamont: no, not working on royal at the moment
[10:41] <Kamion> mdz: is cron.daily still broken?  (I wasn't here for some time)
[10:42] <lamont> seb128: gconf2 is purged (or tried) _after_.  libgconf2-4 is purged before.
[10:42] <seb128> sivang: no, really busy
[10:42] <lamont> but libgsf-1 doesn't Depend: libgconf2-4
[10:42] <Keybuk> not only does the basic installer ask too many questions; but then the basic package set also asks too many questions *and* either doesn't install anywhere near enough or if you select the tasks, installs far too much!
[10:42] <seb128> lamont: yeah, I meant the lib
[10:42] <sivang> seb128: k, sorry. mail me in event of something to change
[10:43] <lamont> Keybuk: you're here...
[10:43] <seb128> sivang: np, sure
[10:43] <seb128> lamont: I'll get it fixed
[10:43] <Keybuk> lamont: yes, I have always been here
[10:43] <seb128> dholbach: ping? :)
[10:43] <lamont> Keybuk: I was just wondering if the behavior I pointed seb128 at just now is expected behavior...
[10:43] <lamont> A depends: B depends: C
[10:43] <lamont> removeing everything and it's mother removes C before A
[10:44] <Keybuk> define "removes" in this context
[10:44] <lamont> dpkg --purge
[10:44] <mdz> Kamion: I haven't heard from elmo, so I assume it is, yes
[10:44] <Keybuk> show me with log
[10:44] <lamont> well, apt-get remove --purge, but you get the idea
[10:44] <ogra> ARGH
[10:44] <mdz> Kamion: I thought roken overrides produced a meaningful error though
[10:44] <mdz> broken
[10:44] <ogra> i hate hate hate sparc !
[10:44] <lamont> Keybuk: http://buildd.mmjgroup.com/buildLogs/x/xffm/1:4.2.1-1/
[10:44] <lamont> the last hppa log there
[10:44] <Kamion> mdz: I've had stuff just pile up in accepted before, the one time I broke the overrides
[10:45] <Keybuk> 22-Sep-2005 10:11
[10:45] <lamont> buildLogs/x/xffm/1:4.2.1-1/xffm_1:4.2.1-1_20050922-1004-hppa-failed.gz
[10:45] <lamont> yes
[10:45] <Keybuk> which three packages?
[10:46] <lamont> build finishes, remove blows away the chroot.  libgsf-1, gconf2, and libgconf2-4
[10:46] <lamont> == A, B, C
[10:46] <sivang> now, time to munch some bugs
[10:46] <Keybuk> libgsf-1 failed to remove
[10:46] <tiefox> can rosetta be used for translation of breezy? will all translations in rosetta be used in breezy final ?
[10:46] <Keybuk> dpkg: error processing libgsf-1 (--purge):
[10:46] <Keybuk>  subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 127
[10:46] <lamont> Keybuk: becauses it's pre-rm needs the libs in libgconf2-4, which was previously removed/purged
[10:47] <Keybuk> libgsf-1 doesn't depend on libgconf2-4 ?
[10:47] <lamont> (I know _why_ it died, just wondering if that's expected... libgsf-1 does not declare it's dep on libgconf2-4)
[10:47] <lamont> no.  it depends: gconf2, which depends: libgconf2-4
[10:47] <ogra> gah, hppa isnt better...
[10:47] <lamont> ogra: how so?
[10:48] <ogra> ports.ubuntu.com seems broken
[10:48] <lamont> it's an intermittant thing...