[07:00] <jera> a
[19:05] <nmzm> hello everyone. How can I download already installed package? For example: I installed gcc via apt, and then deleted all the downloaded packages via apt clean.
[19:05] <nmzm> So is there a way to download that package again? It says that gcc is already installed
[19:07] <wxl> nmzm: you want the deb file for some reason?
[19:08] <gonzalo> How do I join a channel?
[19:09] <gonzalo> and how do I look for channels?
[19:09] <wxl> well you're on a channel so you just did the first XD
[19:09] <nmzm> wxl: Yeah, I want to somehow download the gcc packages with the dependencies as it was at first install
[19:09] <wxl>  /join #channelname
[19:10] <wxl> looking for channels is harder. /list should do it but there's too many channels on freenode, so use the bot instead. /msg alis help
[19:11] <wxl> nmzm: well `apt download gcc` will get you gcc but depends hmmmmm
[19:12] <nmzm> I've seen nothing about this on wiki, but I believe it's easier to do with fresh install(On a VM), but decided to ask, maybe there's a some other way
[19:12] <wxl> OH
[19:12] <wxl> you could use the --reinstall switch
[19:13] <wxl> `apt-get install --reinstall gcc`
[19:14] <nmzm> wxl: Hmm, thank you for help, I'll try that. Hope this will help. I'm not sure that my idea with "local" repository using dpkg-dev will work, but why not to try :D
[19:15] <wxl> nmzm: well what are you trying to do?
[19:15] <nmzm> Just want to learn more about Lubuntu because before I was using Slackware
[19:16] <wxl> so you're trying to learn about how the repositories work?
[19:16] <nmzm> wxl: I want to try to create a local repository recognized by apt, yea
[19:16] <wxl> ah
[19:16] <wxl> i've never bothered
[19:16] <nmzm> like -> Put all packages into the folder, run dpkg-dev to create a Packages.gz and then make an iso and mount it as apt-cdrom
[19:17] <nmzm> Not sure it will work, but again, why not to try :D
[19:17] <wxl> any time i wanted to set something up not necessarily fit for the archives, i've just put it in a ppa
[19:18] <nmzm> ppa.. Hmm I'll read about ppa too. Is it more better?
[19:19] <wxl> well you don't have to set up a repo so XD
[19:19] <wxl> https://help.launchpad.net/Packaging/PPA
[19:20] <nmzm> wxl: True :D Thanks for the link! Seems like I need learn much more things :D
[23:14] <materialismbruh> wow people actually exist in this channel
[23:15] <wxl> thsi is surprising because… ?
[23:55] <Deauthymen> Moin


[00:01] <elmo> ok, I'm wandering off again, available on the phone if it breaks more/again/harder
[00:01] <wgrant> Night.
[00:01]  * wgrant files a bug.
[00:05] <lifeless> elmo: thanks
[00:05] <lifeless> wgrant: why would teams need a mail address ;P
[00:06] <wgrant> Bug #614858
[00:06] <_mup_> Bug #614858: Recipe builds fail when requester does not have a preferred email address <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/614858>
[00:06] <wgrant> lifeless: Well, they often do (preferredemail is the contact address).
[00:06] <lifeless> wgrant: fvso often
[00:08] <wgrant> lifeless: True.
[00:11] <lifeless> I'd want to do a stats run on that before thinking about it
[00:24] <lifeless> Ursinha-afk: / matsubara-afk: are either of you around ?
[01:59] <jelmer> 'morning wgrant, lifeless
[02:08] <lifeless> hai
[02:14] <lifeless> jelmer: have you considered sleeping ?
[02:15] <jelmer> lifeless: what's that, "sleep" ?
[02:15] <lifeless> its the root for sleeping.
[02:15] <lifeless> :P
[07:18] <wgrant> elmo: When you wake up... the world has collapsed again.
[07:18] <wgrant> I can't see what's done it, but it's not the same recipe.
[07:30] <cody-somerville> wgrant, Lucid, lmsensors-trunk, team-iquik
[07:32] <wgrant> cody-somerville: Sigh.
[07:34] <wgrant> ...........................
[07:35] <wgrant> What the *fuck*.
[07:35] <wgrant> Seriously guys.
[07:40] <wgrant> Unbelievable.
[07:47] <wgrant> Anyway, everything's working again.
[09:04] <wgrant> Bah, I think things are broken again.
[09:07] <wgrant> Yes :(
[09:09] <lifeless> details?
[09:10] <wgrant> I can't tell.
[09:10] <wgrant> Needs log access.
[09:11] <elmo> 2010-08-08 09:10:06+0100 [-] startBuild(Lucid, dailylucid, nova-core (on http://thorium.ppa:8221/))
[09:11] <elmo> 2010-08-08 09:10:06+0100 [-] Scanning failed with: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'email'
[09:11]  * wgrant kills it dead.
[09:12] <wgrant> I wonder why this is only happening now.
[09:12] <wgrant> Maybe dailies weren't being created until recently.
[09:12] <wgrant> Oh!
[09:13] <wgrant> They would have never reached the head of the queue until recently, because of the queue fuckup over the last couple of weeks.
[09:13] <thumper> elmo: can just disable the daily build script until we fix it?
[09:13] <elmo> thumper: if you give me some hint as to how to do so, sure?
[09:13]  * thumper loks
[09:14] <wgrant> It's request_daily_build.py, but NFI where it runs.
[09:14] <wgrant> request_daily_builds.py, sorry.
[09:14] <elmo> not cesium
[09:14] <elmo> so it must be loganberry
[09:14] <elmo> checking
[09:14] <wgrant> Yeah.
[09:14] <thumper> request_daily_builds.py
[09:14] <thumper> loganberry
[09:15] <thumper> possibly as bzrsyncd
[09:15] <elmo> yeah, it is. ok, commenting out it and the check for it
[09:15] <thumper> elmo: ack, thanks
[09:15] <wgrant> Thanks.
[09:15] <thumper> I'll take an urgent look tomorrow morning
[09:15] <thumper> wgrant: is there a bug?
[09:16] <wgrant> thumper: For one of the issues: bug #614858.
[09:16] <_mup_> Bug #614858: Recipe builds break the world when requester does not have a preferred email address <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/614858>
[09:16] <thumper> ta
[09:16] <wgrant> For the others which I discovered a couple of hours ago... not yet.
[09:16] <thumper> what was the other issue?
[09:17] <elmo> ok, all done
[09:17] <elmo> (disabling)
[09:18] <elmo> 2010-08-08 09:18:30+0100 [-] startBuild(Maverick, rekonq-daily, rekonq (on http://lychee.ppa:8221/))
[09:18] <wgrant> I wonder how many there are left.
[09:19] <wgrant> Probably lots.
[09:19] <thumper> there are quite a few daily recipies now with team owners
[09:19] <wgrant> Shall we play suspend-all-builds-without-a-preferred-email-address?
[09:19] <elmo> I'm game if it involves SQL and not me tailing a log and pasting broken ones to the channel
[09:20] <wgrant> That's what I was thinking.
[09:20] <elmo> (esp. since I need to get on a plane at some point today)
[09:20]  * wgrant SQLs.
[09:20] <wgrant> Ah, IS sprint?
[09:20] <elmo> wgrant: ta
[09:20] <elmo> wgrant: yep
[09:40]  * wgrant waits for download-cache to update...
[09:48] <wgrant> elmo: Ahem. One query for the wrong (10.08) schema later, http://paste.ubuntu.com/474867/ appears to work fine.
[09:54] <wgrant> Ok.
[09:54] <wgrant> #launchpad intrigues me.
[09:54] <wgrant> How has this error come up so many times today?
[10:14] <lifeless> interesting
[10:14] <lifeless> possibly things to check
[10:15] <lifeless> a change in sql for something in registry?
[10:15] <lifeless> a cp of a soyuz change on friday?
[10:15] <lifeless> something else?
[10:15] <lifeless> like latency for backlog catchup
[10:23] <elmo> wgrant: thanks; there was only actually 3
[10:33] <lifeless> \o/ am up to actual new functional in qa-tagger refactoring.
[10:33] <lifeless> OTOH mars and ursula are going to kill me Monday :)
[12:05] <lifeless> \o/ success
[12:07] <lifeless> jml: did I see you just come online ?
[12:07] <jml> lifeless, maybe
[12:07] <jml> lifeless, wassup
[12:07] <lifeless> I want to sketch a fixtures thing
[12:08] <lifeless> if you're up for a little voice - very little - on that that would be nice
[12:08] <jml> sure.
[12:08] <jml> but I need coffee first
[12:08] <jml> ~!5
[12:09] <jml> ~15m
[12:09] <lifeless> ok
[12:09] <lifeless> well, ping me when you're back
[12:09] <lifeless> if I'm up, we'll chat
[12:09] <lifeless> if not, it'll brew eventually anyhow :)
[12:16] <jml> hi
[12:17] <jml> lifeless, ping
[12:18] <lifeless> hi
[16:09] <Ursinha-afk> is this actually monday for you guys or you're just having fun? :)
[20:59] <neo_> echo hi
[21:40] <james_w> lifeless: you might be interested to look at https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/more-matchers/+merge/32057 where I felt Matchers didn't support me too well in what I wanted to do. I filed a bug on one thing that would help. It may partly be that keeping the existing assert* API didn't help.
[21:43] <lifeless> +        except NotFoundError:
[21:43] <lifeless> +            return self.new(name)
[21:43] <lifeless> james_w: is new an instance method ?
[21:44] <james_w> lifeless: I don't think I wrote that?
[21:44] <james_w> or maybe that's in the prerequisite branch, which got included in this diff to start with.
[21:44] <lifeless> its in the diff for https://code.launchpad.net/~james-w/launchpad/more-matchers/+merge/32057 that I got mailed to me ;)
[21:46] <james_w> right, again only mailing the first diff wastes people's time
[21:58] <lifeless> james_w: where was this bug you filed ?
[22:04] <james_w> lifeless: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/testtools/+bug/615108
[22:04] <_mup_> Bug #615108: Please provide a way to match an iterable of matchees <testtools:New> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/615108>
[22:05] <thumper> morning
[22:07] <lifeless> james_w: MatchesMany ?
[22:07] <lifeless> james_w: or 'IsIterableOf
[22:38] <lifeless> bbiab -> allergy shot
[22:43] <wgrant> I can't seem to access MPs on staging.
[22:43] <wgrant> OOPS-1681S1581 is a timeout, and OOPS-1681S1580 is an actual OOPS.
[22:46] <thumper> wgrant: is it always timing out?
[22:46] <thumper> it could be a staging librarian issue
[22:46] <wgrant> One times out, the others OOPS.
[22:47] <wgrant> The OOPS would make sense if the diff was gone.
[22:47] <thumper> wgrant: is there an oops for bug 614858 ?
[22:47] <_mup_> Bug #614858: Recipe builds break the world when requester does not have a preferred email address <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:Triaged by thumper> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/614858>
[22:47] <wgrant> But timing out as well on others is a little odd.
[22:47] <wgrant> thumper: No OOPS.
[22:47] <wgrant> Just stuff in buildd-manager logs.
[22:48] <wgrant> And it doesn't do OOPSes (yet?)
[22:49]  * thumper sighs
[22:49] <wgrant> Why?
[22:49] <wgrant> The problem is obvious.
[22:53] <thumper> wgrant: I don't know the buildd code as well as you
[22:53] <thumper> wgrant: where do you think the exact issue is?
[22:54] <wgrant> thumper: lib/lp/code/model/recipebuilder.py -- search for 'preferredemail'
[22:55] <thumper> heh
[22:58] <wgrant> Ahem, oops.
[23:04] <thumper> ok, I'll admit to have not worked on any real recipe stuff
[23:05] <jelmer_> wgrant: I'm surprised it is possible for a user to not have a preferredemail address, when does that happen?
[23:06] <wgrant> jelmer_: They're deactivated, or it's a team without a contact address.
[23:06] <jelmer_> (I vaguely remember writing that code in Wellington)
[23:06] <wgrant> jelmer_: And a team 'requests' a recipe build if they are the owner of a daily recipe.
[23:07] <jelmer_> wgrant: Why would a deactivated account not have a preferredemail ?
[23:07] <jelmer_> is that removed when they are deactivateD?
[23:07] <thumper> I think a deactivated person still has a preferred email
[23:07] <thumper> the problem here is a recipe owned by a team
[23:08] <wgrant> jelmer_, thumper: Deactivation resets the preferredemail to NEW.
[23:08] <wgrant> So yes, the person ends up without a preferredemail.
[23:08] <wgrant> This may be how mail to deactivated users is prevented.
[23:09] <wgrant> (See the end of Person.deactivateAccount)
[23:09] <jelmer_> wgrant: Thanks
[23:17] <wgrant> thumper: bug #615144
[23:19] <thumper> wgrant: ta
[23:19]  * thumper afk to get the car a warrent
[23:30]  * jelmer waves goodnight


[00:00]  * Unit193 is a bit grumpier than normal, working on a makefile...
[00:02] <belkinsa> I know that we can.
[00:02] <belkinsa> I think your idea about jus Ubuntu Members with cloak having voice is better.
[00:04] <Unit193> That's not my idea at all.
[00:05] <belkinsa> Oh, I meant OP.
[00:05] <belkinsa> I can read.
[02:35] <thafreak> Anyone set up samba with windows 7 machines lately?
[02:36] <thafreak> i used resara server last, which was a custom version of samba4 and it's dyinh
[02:36] <thafreak> dying
[02:38] <Unit193> What is included in "set up"?
[02:44] <thafreak> have them work together i guess
[02:44] <Unit193> Sure, in Debian and Ubuntu.
[02:45] <thafreak> with windows 7?
[02:49] <Unit193> Again, just moving a file from Win7 to samba?  Sure, worked fine.
[02:54] <thafreak> what I've read, samba 3 requires windows 7 to have registry changes
[02:54] <thafreak> did you have to do that?
[02:54] <thafreak> unless that's to make it join a domain...and i don't think i want to do that
[02:54] <Unit193> Nope.
[02:54] <Unit193> Wasn't my computer.
[02:55] <thafreak> ok, then I'm hopeful
[02:55] <thafreak> samba4 sucks
[02:55] <thafreak> or I should say active directory sucks
[02:55] <Unit193> Oh? :/
[02:55] <Unit193> Ah.
[02:55] <thafreak> SO many moving parts
[02:59] <Unit193> Have 4 on Debian, two crashes.  Mostly it seems fine as ad is disabled by default.
[03:00] <thafreak> ah...
[03:00] <thafreak> is 4 default now? or is it still "experimental"?
[03:00] <thafreak> i was thinking of going back to 3 actually
[03:00] <thafreak> why am i asking, i can just do an apt-cache search
[03:03] <Unit193> Testing.
[03:47] <Unit193> Somehow triggered the panic script twice now, or at least that's what the system mail said. :/
[13:36] <mthaddon> hi, I wonder if there's anyone around who could provide me with a copy of the drupal theme you use for http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/ ? - I'm interested in copying it for another loco site (dc.ubuntu-us.org)
[13:36] <jenni> [ Welcome | Ubuntu Ohio ] - https://j.mp/1jk4QUl
[13:45] <Unit193> Isn't that just the standard one?
[13:48] <Unit193> Looks like it to me anyway...  If you don't already have the link: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-drupal-theme
[13:48] <jenni> [ Code : UD Theme ] - https://j.mp/1jk5OQx
[23:14] <belkinsa> jrgifford, ping.
[23:53] <ronnoc> Hello & happy Friday :)
[23:53] <belkinsa> Thanks, you too.
[23:56] <ronnoc> I'm happy today...though idk why
[23:56] <belkinsa> I was last night since I got my Ubuntu Membership.
[23:57] <ronnoc> hey congrats! I hope you're still happy today about that
[23:58] <belkinsa> I am.  People just remind me of that event with there congrats and kind words about my wiki page
[23:58] <belkinsa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa
[23:58] <jenni> [ belkinsa - Ubuntu Wiki ] - https://j.mp/1eqs1VA


 https://www.qt.io/blog/qt-5.12.6-released
 Not a top priority for me now. Maybe I would wait a month or two and if there is 5.12.7 planned, then skip .6 completely.
 Ok
[21:06] <lisandro> mitya57: qt creator *might* need a bump, sqlite is embedded on it
[21:06] <lisandro> but I think those are my quartes after all
[21:07] <lisandro> and https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=2019-13720 hasn't been disclosed yet
[21:09] <mitya57> lisandro: do you want to take care of qtcreator? :)
[21:09] <mitya57> That CVE is on my list, just ENOTIME so far
[21:09] <lisandro> I will... whener I get to it (I'm about to start a few days journey)
[21:10] <mitya57> Ok, have a nice trip then
[21:10] <lisandro> thanks :-)
[21:11] <lisandro> I might get to those CVEs once needed too
[21:11] <lisandro> hopefully


[02:33] <lalalila> Hi, Do you know where I can get Ubuntu commercial support in Taiwan?
[02:41] <lalalila> hi hi, does anyone know where I can get ubuntu commercial support in Taiwan?
[02:52] <jk__> ls
[03:01] <lalalila> hihi


[15:42] <vlm> is there a way i can load cgroup config files in ubuntu by a service or so?
[20:26] <Dus10> Hey all, I am trying to use Packer to build a 20.04.1 image on Hyper-V.  I start it up and the HTTP server is running and I can see the user-data and meta-data files via a browser.  It seems like the server never picks them up, though.  Should the autoinstall just reference the HTTP system and not the specific file?


[07:55] <dholbach> good morning
[08:35] <dholbach> hey dpm
[08:35] <dholbach> how's life over there? how was your weekend?
[08:35] <dholbach> did we want to move our call to 12?
[08:35] <dpm> morning dholbach
[08:35] <dpm> yeah, I'll do it now if that still works for you
[08:36] <dholbach> yes, works for me :)
[08:37] <dpm> done :)
[08:37] <dholbach> brilliant :)
[16:32] <dholbach> jono, around?
[16:35] <jono> dholbach, hey
[16:35] <jono> sorry, pal, here now
[16:35] <dholbach> cool
[16:35] <jono> will invite you to a HO
[16:36] <dholbach> oh, there was one in the cal already
[16:36] <dholbach> but I'm happy to join another one if that's easier
[16:36] <jono> dholbach, oh, coming now
[17:10] <dholbach> all right my friends - have a great rest of your day - see you again tomorrow!
[17:38] <dpm> popey, which laptop do you have, was it you who had a Thinkpad X201?
[17:51] <popey> no, x220
[18:41] <mhall119> belkinsa: I hope you don't mind, but I added Linux Padawan to my list of Ubuntu Incubator proposals, I think it would be a good project for me to focus on
[18:54] <dpm> popey, ok, thanks. I remember a while ago you had to install a special kernel for the X220 to work around a particular bug (can't remember which) - do you still have to do that, or are you using the default Ubuntu kernel?
[18:55] <popey> dpm: i run stock kernel
[18:55] <popey> Linux deep-thought 3.16.0-25-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP Tue Nov 4 12:06:54 UTC 2014 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[18:55] <belkinsa> mhall119, I don't mind it.
[18:55] <dpm> cool, ty
[19:51] <elfy> popey: did you forget to add your reply before you sent that mail :p
[19:51] <popey> keyboard fail
[19:52] <elfy> :)
[19:52] <pleia2> computers are hard
[19:52] <elfy> I heard that
[19:52] <popey> lets go shopping!
[19:52] <elfy> you're buying :p
[20:37] <popey> \o/ I know how to email
[20:38] <elfy> ha ha
[21:55] <czajkowski> wow so much mail and tweets to reply back to
[21:55] <czajkowski> ello all
[21:56] <popey> hah
[21:57] <czajkowski> I take your hah and reply with  Zzz
[21:57] <mhall119> czajkowski: have a strong drink ready before reading
[21:58] <czajkowski> so here's a thing I never  knew, some peopole post on the outside of a parcel in big letters what the items are inside. large pita when you're not here to collect and they get handed to the person who is getting them as a gift so they can see ;(
[21:59] <mhall119> that sounds like a pretty terrible idea all around
[21:59] <czajkowski> Jon saw his present he was getting, on the plus side he could tell me he didn't want it so that was nice
[21:59] <czajkowski> now trying to arrange sending back of a 3D printer :(
[21:59] <czajkowski> bleugh
[21:59] <mhall119> I can just imagine "Very valuable things inside, high resale potential, please don't open"
[22:00] <mhall119> but it's a 3d printer, he could *make* the things he wanted
[22:00] <popey> ☻
[22:00] <czajkowski> on the front marked in big bold size 20 font 3D printer
[22:00] <mhall119> honestly, I'm not sure the kind of person who would turn down a 3d printer is the right person for czajkowski ;)
[22:00] <czajkowski> turns out I got a gift wrong
[22:00] <czajkowski> it had to happen
[22:01] <popey> which one did you get OOI?
[22:01] <czajkowski> hmm
[22:01] <czajkowski> http://www.emakershop.com/browse/listing?l=1143
[22:01] <popey> oh nice!
[22:02] <popey> lot of work to put together tho
[22:02] <czajkowski> yup for all of them
[22:02] <czajkowski> oh well
[22:02] <czajkowski> back it goes
[22:03] <mhall119> somebody needs to create a bootstrap bot, who's only function is to automatically build a 3d printer
[22:03] <czajkowski> https://twitter.com/matthewrevell/status/541981237477658624  if you know of anyone let us know :D
[22:14] <jcastro> hey popey
[22:15] <jcastro> so, my hp microserver is gettign a bit long in the tooth, CPU-wise I mean
[22:15] <jcastro> so I ordered this node 304 case, and it's so well designed I can't shut up about it
[22:15] <jcastro> I'm going to just transplant the OS and storage drives right into it
[22:16] <popey> ooh!
[22:16] <popey> wat zat?
[22:16] <jcastro> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811352027
[22:16] <jcastro> so intel makes this thing called a "20th Anniversary Pentium"
[22:17] <jcastro> which is like 60 dollars, and is haswell based, and is unlocked so you can OC it if you want
[22:17] <jcastro> so I got one and a cheap mobo, etc. to toss into this, it hold _6 drives_ in a mini itx case
[22:18] <jcastro> so I was looking at the new gen HP microservers
[22:19] <jcastro> but I ended up just getting the parts for much cheaper for one of these builds
[22:20] <popey> 6 bays!?
[22:20] <jcastro> popey, the newer HP microservers give you two options, one is an old ivy bridge desktop processor, the other is an expensive Xeon, there's no middle ground. :-/
[22:20] <jcastro> yeah, 6 bays, unbelivable
[22:20] <popey> also, HP are evil.
[22:21] <jcastro> I find pleia2 to be pleasant
[22:21] <popey> no firmware updates for you unless you pay for a support contract
[22:21] <popey> exceptions prove rules
[22:21] <jcastro> wow really?
[22:21] <popey> yeah
[22:21] <popey> thats the main reason I wont buy another HP machine
[22:21] <jcastro> the other problem with my hp, the disk io is just starting to really bother me
[22:21] <jcastro> I mean, it was relatively cheap
[22:21] <jcastro> but these days, I need more beefy IO to do stuff on it.
[22:22] <popey> yeah
[22:22] <popey> mine is feeling weedy too
[22:22] <jcastro> My only mistake is my mobo only has 4 sata ports
[22:22] <jcastro> so I got a 6 port esata pci-e card, but it was like 30 bucks
[22:38] <bkerensa> popey: mac minis is where its at... cheap and they run Linux
[22:38] <bkerensa> eck
[22:38] <bkerensa> jcastro: ^
[22:39] <jcastro> I don't see how 6 drives fit in that
[22:39] <pleia2> popey, jcastro - that's ok, hardware is hp inc, I'm hp corp ;)
[22:41] <pleia2> (really, I'm just hacking on openstack infra and hp what?)
[22:42] <bkerensa> pleia2: is your company not split yet?
[22:43] <bkerensa> I thought they were splitting into Printers/Cloud/PC
[22:43] <pleia2> bkerensa: it hasn't, but I pretend it has whenever anyone talks about hardware
[22:43] <bkerensa> hah
[22:43] <popey> ☻
[22:43] <pleia2> hp corp is cloud and business, hp inc is printers, servers, etc
[22:43] <pleia2> or at least, will be in a year or so
[22:43] <mhall119> s/inc/ink/ for maximum punnage
[22:44] <bkerensa> jcastro: why 6 drives? drop a 1TB in there and call it a day
[22:44] <jcastro> It's my NAS, it needs multiple drives, unless you see 12TB drives around?
[22:45] <popey> lulz
[22:45]  * popey has 12x2TB at home
[22:45] <popey> need one big-ass mac mini for that! :D
[22:46] <jcastro> I have 4x2TB laying around from my last NAS, I need to find a use for them
[22:46] <bkerensa> jcastro: that is a damn lot of data... I am using like less than 1% of a TB for photos and I have tens of thousands
[22:47] <bkerensa> popey: my NAS http://i.imgur.com/0QlKIBU.jpg
[22:47] <bkerensa> :D
[22:47] <bkerensa> NAS and Build Servers anyways
[23:17] <mhall119> jcastro: is there a way to "shutdown" a juju environment so that I can reclaim memory from these LXC containers I've got running?
[23:18] <mhall119> but in a way that lets me restart them without bootstrapping and re-deploying?
[23:18] <jcastro> I believe you can stop the LXC containers
[23:18] <jcastro> But sec, I dunno if that works
[23:18] <jcastro> marcoceppi, ^^^
[23:18] <marcoceppi> mhall119: you cah just do `sudo lxc-ls --fancy`
[23:18] <marcoceppi> then `sudo lxc-stop -n <conatiner name>`
[23:19] <marcoceppi> when  you're ready, just start each container up again
[23:19] <marcoceppi> they'll reregister, etc
[23:19] <marcoceppi> jcastro: we should just build a `juju-local` plugin
[23:19] <jcastro> marcoceppi, oh man, that'd be a nice plugin
[23:19] <jcastro> yeah
[23:19] <jcastro> juju pause
[23:19] <marcoceppi> so you can suspend, restart
[23:19] <marcoceppi> etc
[23:19] <jcastro> k, I'll file a bug for later
[23:19] <marcoceppi> the fact we don't have this yet is silly
[23:19]  * marcoceppi gets started
[23:20] <jcastro> marcoceppi, unrelated, don't forget brackets for udtc yo
[23:22] <jcastro> https://github.com/juju/plugins/issues/38
[23:22] <jcastro> mhall119, ^
[23:27] <mhall119> thanks jcastro
[23:27] <marcoceppi> jcastro: apparently I started this months ago and didn't get very far
[23:27] <marcoceppi> https://github.com/juju-solutions/juju-local
[23:27] <jcastro> lol
[23:27] <jcastro> man dude, post to the list
[23:27] <jcastro> first I mean
[23:27] <marcoceppi> dude it's just a readme
[23:28] <jcastro> oh, lol
[23:30] <mhall119> jcastro: how do I +1 that?
[23:31] <jcastro> not sure


[01:37] <gamerchick02> plain old ubuntu back on my laptop, yay!
[17:02] <cmaloney> afternoon
[17:05] <gamerchick02> afternoon!
[17:27] <jrwren> afternoon
[17:28] <gamerchick02> big chores almost done


[00:07] <adub_> anyone in here have hdmi sound working ??
[03:16] <era878> can somebody assist me in adding mythbuntu to ubuntu 10.10. I have a Hauppauge_HVR-1600 and a dish network box vip222k
[03:18] <mycosys> sudo aptitude install mythbuntu
[03:20] <era878> okay
[03:28] <era878> which repository do i need to add because terminals says: Unable to locate package mythbuntu
[03:30] <mycosys> sorry - mythbuntu-desktop
[03:30] <era878> okay
[03:32] <era878> it says: if you install mythbuntu-desktop, future updates will not include new in the ubuntu desktop system set. Should i proceed?
[03:33] <tgm4883> mythbuntu-desktop should only be used if you plan on turning the machine into a mythbuntu only machine
[03:33] <era878> can i install it on my third harddrive and boot from there?
[03:34] <mycosys> if it is a mythn machine ur gonna want mythbackend running all the time
[03:34] <tgm4883> era878, you can install it in ubuntu 10.10 machine just fine
[03:34] <mycosys> better off adding what u want to the machine
[03:34] <era878> can you please explain how to
[03:34] <tgm4883> mythbuntu-desktop just gives you the xfce desktop and themes and such
[03:34] <era878> okay
[03:35] <tgm4883> era878, what you want is this  http://mythbuntu.org/existing-ubuntu
[03:35] <era878> i see
[03:35] <mycosys> sudo aptitude install mythtv
[03:35] <Zinn> [mythbuntu.org] Add to Ubuntu | Mythbuntu
[03:35] <tgm4883> mycosys, no
[03:35] <mycosys> ?
[03:35] <tgm4883> add MCC, then configure it from there
[03:35] <tgm4883> it installs what packages it needs
[03:35] <era878> what?
[03:35] <tgm4883> era878,  http://mythbuntu.org/existing-ubuntu
[03:35] <Zinn> [mythbuntu.org] Add to Ubuntu | Mythbuntu
[03:35] <era878> oh control center?
[03:36] <tgm4883> yea
[03:36] <era878> okay
[03:36] <mycosys> tricky
[03:36] <tgm4883> then install the roles you want from there (frontend, backend, etc)
[03:36] <era878> i just got the control center
[03:37] <era878> what do i want primary backend, secondary backend, no front end, desktop frontend?
[03:37] <tgm4883> era878, http://mythbuntu.org/wiki/mythbuntu-control-centre-mcc
[03:37] <tgm4883> look at the roles section
[03:37] <Zinn> [mythbuntu.org] Mythbuntu Control Centre (MCC) | Mythbuntu
[03:37] <era878> okay
[03:39] <era878> can i have a front end and a desktop role?
[03:41] <tgm4883> yea
[03:42] <era878> okay im installing now
[03:42] <era878> what should i configure next
[03:44] <tgm4883> once you have the backend installed, you need to go though mythtv setup
[03:44] <tgm4883> look for the install guide on the wiki
[03:45] <era878> okay
[04:10] <era878> im setting up the backend now and im confused by this whole database thing
[04:21] <era878> after selecting the language english in the backend setup a box pops up saying "no upnp"
[04:21] <era878> what do i do?
[04:53] <era878> how do i configure mythtv for dish network
[04:54] <mycosys> would suggest searching the wiki on mythtv.org
[04:57] <era878> sure
[06:48] <hot_wheelz> I have mythexport installed now which allows me to stream recorded shows via myweb...What about live tv what is the go there?
[06:56] <hot_wheelz> anyone
[06:57] <mycosys> need a client that speaks myth protocol for that
[06:57] <mycosys> afaik that is only mythfrontend atm
[07:00] <hot_wheelz> mycosys so u can only stream pre-recorded stuff via mythweb then
[07:01] <mycosys> yup
[07:01] <mycosys> if it is to windows, mythfrontend can be run on windows
[07:04] <hot_wheelz> another thing - what about ps3 as frontend?
[07:05] <mycosys> just use dlna
[07:05] <mycosys> aka upnp
[07:07] <hot_wheelz> mycosys so so how how do enable that? becuse i tried going to tv on my ps3 but the myth frontend didn't appear...what am I missing?
[07:08] <mycosys> should be there :S
[07:08] <mycosys> does ps3 use dlna?
[07:09] <hot_wheelz> i belive so yeah
[07:09] <mycosys> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/UPnP
[07:09] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] UPnP - MythTV
[07:11] <mycosys> apparently the ps3 just takes an age to find it hot_wheelz
[07:13] <hot_wheelz> mycosys should be looking for a media server right?
[07:13] <hot_wheelz> it just said none found :-(
[07:14] <mycosys> give it time - read that link
[07:14] <mycosys> the ps3 doesnt search properly
[07:16] <hot_wheelz> what do u suggest i can't just give it an ip :-(
[07:16] <mycosys> ?
[07:16] <mycosys> wait
[07:16] <hot_wheelz> mycosys ok :-)
[07:17] <mycosys> if sony hadnt taken ur right to install linux on it you could have had mythfrontend on there
[07:17] <mycosys> sony suck
[07:20] <hot_wheelz> mycosys but is it still doable dispite this fact via upnp or not...should be right?
[07:34] <hot_wheelz> mycosys followed http://us.playstation.com/support/answer/index.htm?a_id=430 still no joy :-(
[07:52] <mycosys> did you do the wait bit after you did, keep using search on it in the hope it actually will
[07:59] <hot_wheelz> yes i did
[07:59] <mycosys> is it still on?
[07:59] <mycosys> try now
[08:09] <mycosys> any sign of it yet?
[08:16] <hot_wheelz> no
[08:28] <mycosys> http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Sony_PlayStation_3
[08:28] <Zinn> [www.mythtv.org] Sony PlayStation 3 - MythTV
[08:28] <mycosys> have you checked that your router is allowing data to go between the ps3 and the mythbox?
[08:29] <hot_wheelz> they're conneted to the same router so should be fine right?
[08:29] <mycosys> not necessarily
[08:30] <mycosys> many routers dont allow the ports on them to communicate by default
[08:30] <mycosys> most even
[08:30] <mycosys> will be a setiing on their web interface to allow it
[08:30] <mycosys> virtual lan, port communication, they call it a bunch of things
[08:31] <hot_wheelz> what should i look for then
[08:31] <mycosys> ur router manual would be my bet
[08:32] <hot_wheelz> look for upnp right?
[08:32] <mycosys> no
[08:32] <mycosys> tho that would be a good thing to enable too
[08:33] <mycosys> on a d-link it will be virtual lan
[08:33] <mycosys> what router do you have'
[08:33] <mycosys> ?
[08:33] <hot_wheelz> http://www.billion.com/product/adsl/bipac7402r2-firewall-adsl2-vpn-router.html
[08:33] <Zinn> [www.billion.com] Billion Products for SSL VPN, ADSL Modem/Router, Wireless ADSL Router, Powerline ADSL Router and Adapter, VoIP ADSL Modem/Router, Security Router, Broadband Router, SHDSL Bridge/Router, iBusiness Security, ISDN Product
[08:33] <mycosys> nice
[08:34] <hot_wheelz> do i need to port forward?
[08:35] <mycosys> nah
[08:35] <mycosys> asking some1 i know who has one o those
[08:35] <mycosys> can join us on efnet #desktops if u like
[08:36] <mycosys> just dont expect it to be as ....... clean as here
[08:36] <hot_wheelz> apreciate it - i'll wait for u come back to me :-)
[08:36] <mycosys> is a support channel - but we gave up on those sort o rules lol
[08:37] <mycosys> just too damn hard to enforce
[08:37] <Zinn> mycosys: Please watch your language.
[08:37] <mycosys> see what i mean by clean??????
[08:37] <hot_wheelz> yep
[08:37] <mycosys> i wonder if i can mention the franklin dam?
[08:39] <hot_wheelz> mycosys brb
[08:39] <mycosys> np
[08:40] <hot_wheelz> i am sure of one thing though
[08:41] <hot_wheelz> it'll be somthing simple i'm missing :-)
[08:58] <mycosys> apart from saying buy a tplink - he said the billion should be fine out of the box, but use latest firmware
[08:58] <mycosys> dinnertime
[08:58] <mycosys> suggest #mythtv
[09:45] <hot_wheelz> mycosys
[10:00] <mycosys> yars?
[10:00] <mycosys> hot_wheelz
[10:14] <hot_wheelz> i am alraedy running the latest f\w on my router
[10:17] <hot_wheelz> gtg check back in tomorrow :-)
[11:39] <kolo> hi all
[11:39] <mycosys> yo
[11:39] <kolo> i am running mythbuntu 10.10
[11:40] <kolo> just trying to get wol working
[11:40] <mycosys> !ask
[11:40] <Zinn> Please don't ask if anyone is around or if it is alright to ask a question.  Many people check back periodically and may answer your question when they see it.  IRC is not normally an instant fix so check back often for an answer.
[11:40] <mycosys> oh - fun
[11:40] <kolo> yes lol
[11:40] <kolo> i have both backend and frontend on same box
[11:40] <mycosys> would say try #ubuntu myself
[11:40] <mycosys> why wol then?
[11:41] <kolo> shcedule recording
[11:41] <kolo> using mythwelcome to shutdown
[11:41] <mycosys> you dont want wol
[11:41] <mycosys> you want rtc wake
[11:41] <kolo> no
[11:41] <kolo> i have anothe pc on network
[11:41] <kolo> so using a script to copy time of next schedule to that pc
[11:42] <mycosys> there are howtos for rtc - likely simpler
[11:42] <mycosys> unless ur bios doesnt support it
[11:42] <kolo> yea but cant get that to work ..rtc
[11:42] <kolo> i can wake the pc ok from the other pc using wakeonlan
[11:43] <kolo> i  just need mythwelcome to copy the time to the remote pc using scp
[11:43] <kolo> no my problem
[11:43] <kolo> *now
[11:43] <mycosys> would prolly need mythbackend to do that
[11:43] <kolo> mythwelcome?
[11:43] <mycosys> could also just have the remote pc get it off mythweb
[11:44] <kolo> hmm how will i do that
[11:44] <mycosys> look in the code for the upcoming recordings page, or the server status page - there is code on both that displays the time of the next scheduled recording
[11:45] <mycosys> would save re-inventing the wheel
[11:45] <kolo> yea but i want that done by a script
[11:45] <kolo> i have a cron on the other pv
[11:45] <mycosys> wget for instance?
[11:45] <kolo> *pc
[11:46] <mycosys> rib some code out of mythweb - use wget to get the page, use readline to get the time
[11:46] <mycosys> *rip
[11:46] <mycosys> million other ways you could do it with the existing interfaces
[11:46] <kolo> yea but i want the time written when pc is shutting down
[11:47] <kolo> using mythwelcome to shutdown when idle
[11:47] <mycosys> actually - would be simpler to get it straight from the database - wake at the time for every recording - it will only wake it if it is sleeping
[11:48] <kolo> hmm
[11:48] <kolo> how will it get the time when the pc is off
[11:48] <kolo> i shutdown the pc
[11:48] <kolo> my problem is command to set wakeuptime in mythwelcome
[11:49] <kolo> it doesnt appear to be running my script
[11:49] <kolo> how do i troubleshoot mythwelcome
[11:50] <kolo> /home/mythtv/mythwakeup.sh --settime $time
[11:50] <mycosys> never used mythwelcome mate
[11:50] <mycosys> my machine is a server - up 24-7 to record and dl
[11:51] <kolo> ahh
[11:51] <mycosys> just told you 2 parts of myth tho that are designed to provide the info you want to remote machines
[11:51] <kolo> yea
[11:51] <kolo> its will work if machine is on all the time
[11:52] <kolo> mine will shutdown if it has nothing to do
[11:52] <mycosys> if i was doing it i would just keep some sort of list of those on the other machine- send a wake from it for ea recording
[11:52] <mycosys> if the machine is already awake it will have no effect
[11:52] <mycosys> would use minimal resources
[11:52] <kolo> yes
[11:52] <mycosys> seesm simpler
[11:52] <mycosys> that is just me tho lol
[11:52] <kolo> lol
[11:54] <kolo> for anyone that can help please
[11:55] <kolo> this is the code in mythwakeup.sh
[11:55] <kolo> http://pastebin.com/q8xaBxu9
[11:55] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] #!/bin/bash echo $2 > /home/mythtv/log/wakeup.
[11:57] <kolo> ??
[11:58] <mycosys> what is ending up in the log?
[11:58] <kolo> nothing
[11:58] <kolo> thats my problem
[11:59] <kolo> dont think mythwelcome is writing those values
[11:59] <mycosys> does the file exist?
[11:59] <kolo> no
[11:59] <mycosys> try making it - ur using append
[11:59] <kolo> good idea
[12:00] <mycosys> make sure the permissions are right for it too - the user running mythwelcome shouldnt be mythtv
[12:00] <kolo> yea
[12:00] <mycosys> the mythtv group will need write perms
[12:00] <kolo> i have made it writable by all thouhe
[12:00] <kolo> *though
[12:00] <mycosys> 770 would have been fine
[12:01] <kolo> yea
[12:01] <mycosys> how is scp going to log in?
[12:01] <kolo> pub key
[12:01] <kolo> that works no passowrd required
[12:01] <kolo> heres my mythwelcome setting
[12:02] <kolo> http://pastebin.com/42U3Bspx
[12:02] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] command to set wakeup time /home/mythtv/mythwakeup
[12:02] <mycosys> wouldnt it need to be pointed to the key? (not sure)
[12:02] <kolo> no
[12:02] <kolo> the key is stored in authorized keys
[12:02] <mycosys> kk
[12:03] <mycosys> would try it with the file existing - if you arent getting a log then it isnt being run
[12:03] <kolo> yea trying that now
[12:04] <mycosys> could even have it echo to a console you have duplicated via screen to another machine so you can see realtime
[12:04] <kolo> the problem is i dont think its my script
[12:05] <kolo> when i run it from commandline it works fine
[12:06] <mycosys> dont you hate that
[12:07] <kolo> lol
[12:07] <kolo> yea
[12:08] <mycosys> had one recently like that with deluge
[12:08] <kolo> would have been easier if there was a log showing me what mythwelcome is actually doing
[12:08] <mycosys> worst bit is - i found lated some1 had written a plugin to do what i was doind
[12:08] <mycosys> after i fixed it of course
[12:09] <kolo> haha
[12:09] <kolo> and final heres my mythtv-setup
[12:09] <kolo> http://pastebin.com/Cwu1VR32
[12:09] <mycosys> would be very surprised if mythwelcome didnt have a verbose option
[12:09] <Zinn> [pastebin.com] wakeup time format : yyyy-MM-dd:hh:mm Command to
[12:09] <mycosys> try ---help
[12:10] <mycosys> if it does you can >> log &
[12:10] <kolo> k
[12:31] <kolo> ok got it mycosys
[12:31] <kolo> command to set wakeup time in mythtv-setup should be pointing to my script
[12:32] <kolo> /home/mythtv/mythwakeup.sh --settime $time
[12:32] <kolo> cheers for your help
[12:35] <mycosys> sorry i wasnt more
[12:35] <kolo> na thats good u gave me ideas
[12:35] <kolo> also pre created those files and gave it full write access
[12:37] <mycosys> sweet
[12:37] <mycosys> sometimes handy jus to hav some1 to bounce stuff off
[12:39] <kolo> yea
[12:39] <kolo> ok cya
[13:59] <tyrion-mx> !help
[13:59] <Zinn> !help For a  complete list of my knowledge visit: http://www.baablogic.net/Zinn.cgi  Other available commands: !status, !about, !bug [bug_number].
[14:03] <tyrion-mx> I can't see the mouse when using mythbackend, is this normal?
[14:03] <tyrion-mx> myth frontend*
[14:42] <rhpot1991> tyrion-mx: yes
[14:43] <tyrion-mx> it's kinda difficult to select dropdown menus without the mouse ...
[14:43] <tyrion-mx> how should I do?
[15:08] <tyrion-mx> I installed mythbuntu in virtualbox, but it tells that my capture card is always busy
[15:08] <tyrion-mx> main:2284: FATAL: failed to open '/dev/dvb/adapter0/frontend0': 16 Device or resource busy
[15:12] <judget> where should my video capture devices be /dev/video*?
[15:24] <judget> is bttv built into the mythbuntu kernel ?
[15:27] <judget> my kernel is 2.6.35-25-generic
[17:06] <rhpot1991> tyrion-mx: use the keyboard
[17:06] <rhpot1991> there is an option about the mouse somewhere, you'll have to google to figure out where it is I don't recall
[17:10] <mycosys> hide mouse vursor? is either in general or appearance iirc
[17:10] <mycosys> *cursor
[17:11] <rhpot1991> mycosys: yep thanks
[17:11] <rhpot1991> tyrion-mx: ^
[17:12] <tyrion-mx> rhpot1991, thank you :)
[17:13] <mycosys> hmmm - touchscreen would work well with myth
[17:14] <mycosys> wonder if there is a way to x forward just the menu painter, not the playback
[19:11] <bcgrown> hello
[19:11] <bcgrown> does anyone know how to make the rear channels work for an Intel ALC887 sound chipset?
[19:12] <bcgrown> (analog, not digital outs)
[19:24] <gino> Hi everybody...
[19:24] <gino> I am new to all this...anywho...my questions is...
[19:25] <gino> if I build a HTPC, and I know it would have a say PVR-150 for the TV in put...but how do I deal with the FIOS box?
[19:26] <gino> I mean it has channels that need to be decoded and all
[19:26] <gino> any help much appreciated
[19:28] <bcgrown> gino: what outputs does the fios box have?
[19:29] <gino> let me check..is right in front of me...I am in the plannign stages..trying to decide if I should embark in this project
[19:30] <gino> well...currently the output is an HDMI that goes to the flat screen
[19:31] <gino> there is also an RF video out
[19:31] <bcgrown> there aren't many (any?) hdmi input devices available.  you might be able to use an ATSC/QAM tuner if and only if they provide unencrypted channels (unlikely)
[19:31] <bcgrown> does it have a firewire output, or component video?
[19:32] <gino> let me check...but I would love to have the pay channels (that I pay for) be part of the HTPC capabilities
[19:33] <gino> there is a firewire , a USB and a ethernet outputs...at least they seem like outputs
[19:34] <bcgrown> you might be able to use the firewire output if they haven't disabled it.  i would probably try that first.  i doubt the other ones provide video
[19:35] <gino> hhmmm...
[19:35] <bcgrown> i have an older motorola cable box with all those ports too and the firewire works beautifully
[19:35] <bcgrown> however some cable companies disable or cripple them
[19:35] <gino> so...could you tell me how this works?  the HTPC talks to the FIOS through the firewire....and tells the FIOS box what channels it wants?
[19:35] <bcgrown> yep
[19:35] <bcgrown> that's how mine works anyway
[19:36] <gino> so...how do I make sure before spending 800 bucks....otherwise I may end 800 dollars down and nto able to see my channels
[19:36] <bcgrown> you don't have the fios box already?
[19:36] <gino> yes..I do
[19:37] <gino> is there..what I do nto have is the HTPC...I want to build one..but I want to know it will do what I want
[19:37] <bcgrown> ah.  well first of all $800 sounds rather high
[19:37] <bcgrown> a firewire card for your pc is $40 or so,  not that expensive to try it out
[19:38] <gino> I went to a website...and the case..motherboard...cpu...hard drives...PVR-150...all in all is like 800
[19:38] <bcgrown> hmm..  mine was more like $400
[19:38] <bcgrown> but it's rather basic
[19:39] <gino> http://mymediaexperience.com/guide-to-build-optimal-htpc-in-2010/
[19:39] <Zinn> [mymediaexperience.com] HTPC Building Guide to Build HTPC with Optimal Components in 2010
[19:39] <gino> by the way I really appreciate your help
[19:39] <gino> yes...I went there and then added up prices
[19:40] <bcgrown> are you in the us?
[19:40] <gino> if I can not get my paychannel soccer channels then is not worth the effort
[19:40] <gino> yes
[19:40] <gino> Maryland
[19:40] <bcgrown> newegg.com has the best prices for a lot of things
[19:41] <bcgrown> amazon has good deals sometimes, but i dont know much about them since they dont ship to my country
[19:41] <gino> ok...I will write that down....so I guess my question would be this....if I buy the components form that web site....will I after some work get to record my pay channels?  I have 3 ubuntu machines running...I am a physicists so I can get my hands dirty
[19:44] <bcgrown> you'll have to do your own research on that
[19:44] <bcgrown> hd recording from cable is kind of hit and miss
[19:44] <gino> ok..thank you for your help
[19:44] <bcgrown> does the fios box have component video output?
[19:44] <gino> let me check
[19:45] <bcgrown> cause the hauppauge hd-pvr can most likely record from that
[19:45] <bcgrown> p.s. maryland is nice.  got to go back there to surf someday
[19:46] <gino> the fios box has a HDMI that I curtrently have connected to the flat scree and there is also a video out with two connectors (yellow and green) that are unused
[19:47] <gino> I mean...out is not enough..isn't is..there has to be a way for the HTPC to talk to the box
[19:47] <gino> yes..Maryland is getting warmer now....it was like 70 yesterday
[19:47] <bcgrown> you can use an IR blaster if the fios box has an ir remote
[19:48] <gino> yes..the fios has a remote...what is a IR blaster?
[19:48] <bcgrown> basically a remote control transmitter
[19:48] <bcgrown> that the PC controls
[19:48] <gino> ohh.....ok...
[19:48] <gino> that would solve the problem then
[19:49] <gino> but also means that I can nto watch and record a different channels
[19:49] <bcgrown> yep.  a lot of pc remote controls come with them
[19:49] <bcgrown> also true. you can only record/watch as many channels as you have tuners
[19:49] <gino> so...the remote can recive orders from the pc via (IR also I guess)
[19:50] <gino> even if I have two tuners if there is only one fios box then only one channel would be accesible at a time
[19:51] <bcgrown> if everything goes through the fios box, yes
[19:52] <gino> kewl...this has been most illuminating , let me thank you again
[19:52] <gino> I will order the components..this will be fun for sure
[19:53] <gino> Have a great day
[19:53] <bcgrown> enjoy,  ciao!


[00:01] <FreddyFR> Hello ! I'm a french user and lover of Budgie desktop but i have a little problem: using radiotrau or my-weather-indicator, i can't see them onmy panel, thre's no icon.. What can Ido??


[13:09] <rmg51> Morning
[23:47] <ChinnoDog> Who is good with perl that wants to help me with a problem?
[23:53] <ChinnoDog> Oh. I figured it out. I made it too difficult.


[20:55] <pleia2> I've certainly said daft things in my time without thinking, but when someone explained to me that it was wrong I did what I could to be open to not doing it again (and probably apologizing)
[20:56] <pleia2> < mhall1191work> QUESTION: If we think someone is over-reacting to an offense, how should we approach them?
[20:56] <pleia2> carefully, and with the openness to try and understand why they are reacting in the way they are
[20:57] <pleia2> < gQuigs1> QUESTION: Do you think there are many women who simply don't state that they are women to interact with the community and not deal directly with these issues?
[20:57] <pleia2> there are, I know several within Ubuntu
[20:58] <pleia2> and there is a long tradition of women in F/OSS taking gender neutral names to avoid people knowing
[20:58] <pleia2> < ianto> QUESTION: In all the #ubuntu- channels I am involved, when mentioning that you are female you suddenly get this special oh so Godly treatment.  What do you think of this sudden chance in attitude?
[20:59] <pleia2> I have encountered this from time to time, but more frequently people ask me for pictures :\
[20:59] <pleia2> it all boils down to us having different experiences, they can be all kinds, but it's frequently being *treated differently* in some way
[20:59] <pleia2> I have to wrap this portion up now, thanks everyone!
[21:00] <pleia2> Next up for Ubuntu Open Week will be Mackenzie Morgan talking about how we can *address* these issues that I've covered here, so if anyone has any questions about that I'd suggest you wait until her session.
[21:00] <maco> do I have voice yet?
[21:00] <maco> great!
[21:00] <maco> Welcome to the Ubuntu Open Week Session on the Ubuntu Women Project: Solutions to Issues in F/OSS
[21:00] <maco> My name is Mackenzie Morgan.  I'm a test engineer at a Virginia-based consultancy firm specializing in supporting open source software.  I've only been involved in Ubuntu Women for about a year, though I've been helping out with Ubuntu for a bit over 2 years.
[21:01] <maco> You just heard a bit about the issues and history from Lyz, so now I'm going to bring up ways of fixing that
[21:01] <maco> Ubuntu Women has 4 goals: 1) Support and Encouragement, 2) Mentoring and Direction, 3) Highlight active women within the community, 4) Education on Sexism and Feminism.
[21:01] <maco> So first is Support and Encouragement.  How can you, online or in your LoCo team, help support and encourage women in Ubuntu?
[21:01] <maco> There are a number of good suggestions in the HowTo Encourage Women in Linux: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Encourage-Women-Linux-HOWTO/ but remember, this is a guideline, and a lot of it is aimed at how to deal with new group members.  Of course, if you're already friends with the lady who just joined the group, you can keep treating her like your friend :P
[21:02] <maco> That link really boils down to "be respectful."  And yes, I know as someone who has dated an Ubuntu developer, you're all going to think I'm a hypocrite to point at something that says not to hit on people.  My thinking is "Hello, nice to meet you. What's your name?" and "Marry me?" are not equivalent, and no, the joke isn't funny the 50th time someone hears it.
[21:02] <maco> One thing on there I'd like to point out specifically is "3.5: Don't take the keyboard away."  Nothing sends a stronger message that you don't think someone is capable of learning and of taking care of their own system than not letting them stay in the driver's seat.  And this is true for how you should treat anyone new to the group or to Linux.
[21:02] <maco> Another thing I think is important is that if a couple shows up, you should not direct all your technical questions to the male half of the couple.  For all you know, she's a kernel hacker, and he uses the mouse as a footpedal.
[21:02] <maco> Gender ratios in computer science classes don't exactly help us when it comes to finding women who are programmers.  This should not stop us from finding women who can be developers.
[21:03] <maco> Daniel Holbach & James Westby did a session earlier today on beginning Ubuntu Development.  One important takeaway: you do not need to be a programmer!  This is something which comes up a TON and thus bears repeating.  You do not need to be a programmer!
[21:03] <maco> Suddenly "there are fewer women writing code than men writing code" isn't a barrier.  Feel free to encourage your non-programmer friends, men and women alike, to contribute.
[21:03] <maco> Gareth asked a good question before about how not to appear patronising when encouraging a woman to get involved if you're a man. I'd say: be excited. "Oh! There's this really cool project and it totally lines up with your love of ______ so you should totally get involved!"
[21:03]  * maco slows down so you can all read
[21:04] <maco> Any questions about that?
[21:05] <maco> OK then...
[21:05] <maco> OK, second is Mentoring and Direction.
[21:06] <maco> In the Ubuntu Women project we like to mentor new users and those who would like to find a way to fit into the contributor community.
[21:06] <maco> I used to think developers were really scary and that they'd think I was stupid if I made a mistake or asked a "dumb" question.  I was wrong.  As far as I can tell, the closest they get to thinking that is thinking it's silly of me to ask questions when I already know the answer.
[21:06] <maco> If you've encouraged someone to start contributing but they're really nervous about asking beginner-contrib questions in big channels, well...#ubuntu-women is a pretty small channel.    We try to be encouraging and helpful, and I will personally I will /kick anyone who makes fun of a beginner question. :)
[21:07] <maco> er ignore one of those "I will"s ;-)
[21:08] <maco> Do not make comments about how you do not want to have to handhold a girl, ok?  If you don't want to mentor period, that's up to you, but assuming that one user or another will need more handholding to become a developer based on gender and not on things like "willingness to learn indepenently" isn't going to work.
[21:09] <maco> And of course there are other ways to contribute besides traditional "development" such as all the ones found on http://www.ubuntu.com/community so if you meet someone who's really not interested in learning her way around the command line, but she's into art, GREAT!  Point her to the Art Team!
[21:10] <maco> Questions?
[21:10] <czajkowski> 21:09 < MarkDude> QUESTION- besides being a 'peer' how can I help others see why this is a 'human' issue?
[21:11] <maco> I think AlanBell's question actually fit this nicely.  He mentioned how we've all got sisters and mums, and maybe wives or girlfriends too.  How do you want the women in your life to be treated?  Make people see that it's really about THAT
[21:13] <maco> If you're calling someone out on something they said, try pointing out that if someone said that to their kid sister, they'd be none too happy about it
[21:14] <maco> itnet7 asked in -chat for clarification on "don't take the keyboard"
[21:14] <maco> Don't just snatch the keyboard away from the person you're helping. That shows a lack of trust in them.  If they offer it to you, you can take it, but be careful.  Are they offering because they really just don't care to learn, or because they're afraid of the computer?
[21:15] <maco> If the latter, try to encourage them to take ownership of their system and lose that fear
[21:16] <maco> More questions?
[21:19] <maco> Ursinha says that "your mom's a woman too" doesn't always work, unfortunately.  I'm not sure how to explain that to people who don't understand that though.  If anyone knows a better analogy to use, I'm all ears
[21:20] <maco>
[21:20] <maco> Third was Highlight women active in the community.
[21:20] <maco> You may have seen our "Women Behind Ubuntu" column in Full Circle Magazine (http://fullcirclemagazine.org/). This is one of the ways we try to do this.
[21:20] <maco> Why do we do this?    OK, some people have really thick skins and it doesn't bother them, but really thick skin should not be a requirement for participation.  Jonathan Carter (highvoltage, newest Ubuntu Developer) had a great blog post about this a while back http://jonathancarter.co.za/2009/09/30/the-importance-of-saying-hi/
[21:22] <czajkowski> MarkDude> QUESTION - Dealing with community members is not that hard. What about those in leadership positions?
[21:22] <maco> Oi! It's not question time yet :P
[21:23] <maco> Um, that's a hard one.
[21:23] <maco> We have governance structures in Ubuntu for this reason though
[21:23] <maco> Hopefully not *everyone* in the Community Council is plotting against you
[21:24] <maco> If they are, that is frightening.
[21:25] <maco> So, I guess the thing to do is privately take the person aside (which could mean email) and express your grievance calmly.   Maybe point to relevant parts of the Code of Conduct.
[21:25] <maco> Which you can find...
[21:25] <maco> !coc
[21:25] <maco> there ^
[21:26] <maco> If you can't work something out privately, then it might be time to talk to the LoCo Council if you're having issues with your LoCo Team leader or to the Community Council if it's someone in the wider community
[21:27] <maco> ok so back to my script...what was the last thing I said?
[21:27] <maco> oh ok, this was the last thing
[21:27] <maco> Why do we do this?    OK, some people have really thick skins and it doesn't bother them, but really thick skin should not be a requirement for participation.  Jonathan Carter (highvoltage, newest Ubuntu Developer) had a great blog post about this a while back http://jonathancarter.co.za/2009/09/30/the-importance-of-saying-hi/
[21:27] <maco> Did it make it much easier for me at my first LUG meeting to see that there was another woman there?  Yes.  I wasn't alone.  That's what we want to do: get rid of the feeling of isolation.
[21:27] <maco> As Lyz mentioned, sometimes women use gender neutral or male names online as a form of protection.  That's up to them, but I think it contributes to invisibility, which is something this horn-tootin' is supposed to battle.
[21:28] <maco> That's why you *will* see me correct people on IRC who call me "he"
[21:28] <maco> How can the guys help with this?  Well, I'm also a member of LinuxChix, and over there we talk about horn-tootin'.  If you see someone doing something awesome, say something!  Hey, Amber's been writing really awesome articles on the Ubuntu community.
[21:28] <maco> See, it's easy
[21:28] <maco> And you know, this doesn't have to be something you only do for women, not at all!  I think a lot of us get stuck in this mode where we complain about things that are broken but never take the time to say "thank you" or "you rock!" but doing so is really important. People want to feel appreciated.
[21:30] <maco> So, if you're mentioning a list of people who do good work, think a second.  Do you really not know any women who do good work? Or is it just that they're not in your circle of friends? Why not include one if you know of one?
[21:30] <maco> OK....any new questions yet? This is like 3/4 of the way through what I prepared.  Folks need to start asking questions!
[21:31] <pleia2> < LaserJock> QUESTION: Does putting some women on a "pedestal" maybe lead to more problems? Like do you want them to be "heros" or "just another women in FLOSS"?
[21:31] <maco> I hope I just answered that...
[21:32] <pleia2> < MarkDude> QUESTION - We dont just need to try to encourage women to join, In general we need to encourage diversity? ( I think that makes us more interesting people on the whole.)
[21:32] <maco> Yes!
[21:32] <maco> Well really, saying it as "diversity" sounds odd too.
[21:33] <maco> We need to encourage *everyone* to join
[21:33] <maco> That some people are being discouraged is a problem, and so we need to do some encouraging to cancel out the discouragement effects
[21:34] <maco> It just so happens that "everyone" is a rather diverse crowd
[21:34] <maco> :)
[21:34] <maco> Next?
[21:34] <pleia2> < tiemonster> QUESTION: do you think having significant others' groups are a good trend, or should there be more of an effort to include them in the LUG?
[21:34] <maco> As long as you call them that, I'm fine with it. Don't be like RubyFringe and have "Girlfriend Daycare" though
[21:36] <maco> If you mean something about UW being a separatist group...I think Lyz covered that, right?
[21:37] <pleia2> yep
[21:37] <maco> We're part of the Ubuntu project, and we aim to help women move better within the wider projec
[21:37] <maco> *project
[21:38] <pleia2> < MarkDude> QUESTION - BBQ & beer - that is a great way to involve everyone - right?
[21:38] <maco> Unless everyone includes underage folks, recovering alcoholics, vegetarians...
[21:38] <maco> Yeah, I'm pretty sure those groups are part of "everyone"
[21:39] <czajkowski> < Pendulum> QUESTION: How do we make it comfortable for people/women to speak up when they are feeling uncomfortable? If what's happened has you already feeling  uncomfortable, it can make it difficult.
[21:40] <maco> Among its other uses, #ubuntu-women has at times been a place for people to rant when something in the wider community really ticked them off or offended them
[21:40] <maco> Hopefully such ranting doesn't need to happen too often, though.
[21:41] <maco> Of course, finding someone who agrees with you can help.
[21:42] <maco> I mentioned the Community Council before. Lyz here (pleia2) is on it.  If you're uncomfortable raising an issue to one of the dudes on the CC because it was a sexism thing...talk to her
[21:43] <maco> next?
[21:43] <pleia2> < ssd7> QUESTION: Do you have any thoughts on how to encourage women that are simply users of free software and not just developers.  Are there any unique problems in the user space?
[21:45] <maco> Definitely want to encourage them to at least be part of the user community so they have a network of friends for getting help.  That network of friends is something that makes Windows more attractive to people.  They know who to call for help.
[21:45] <maco> And like I said above: don't want to be a developer, but have other talents? We can always use artists, translators, and just plain helpful people
[21:46] <maco> Also: don't make the non-developer types feel unwelcome
[21:46] <maco> Next?
[21:47] <maco> ok will try to get through the end before questions overwhelm
[21:47] <maco> Finally, Education on sexism and feminism is one of our things.
[21:47] <maco> This isn't a really big one, and I think Lyz just did it, so...?  For this, I'm just going to point you to the http://geekfeminism.wikia.com wiki and http://geekfeminism.org blog as good places to learn about the issues.  A handful of Ubuntu Women members are involved in both of those sites.
[21:47] <maco> Lyz already mentioned the wiki
[21:48] <maco> There are also a ton of "Feminism 101" resources on the web
[21:48] <maco> What this means for you to try to help in this goal is simply calling people out.  When someone does something discouraging or makes a sexist comment, publicly say "that's not cool."  You don't have to be a target of it to call it out.  And honestly?  If you're on the same side of the privilege fence as the person making the comment, they might listen better.
[21:48] <maco> And if you find yourself being called out? Apologize! Not "I'm sorry that you were offended" but "I'm sorry that I said ___."  Take ownership of the issue.
[21:48] <maco> Want an example of a really awesome apology? Check out the one Stephen Fry gave a few weeks ago: http://www.stephenfry.com/2009/10/19/poles-politeness-and-politics-in-the-age-of-twitter/ (yes, it's long, but notice how he admits that he is responsible for having said what he did)
[21:49] <maco> OK, that's the end of the scripted bit. *Now* I'll take remaining questions
[21:49] <pleia2> < gQuigs1> QUESTION: what is a good example of an event to include *everyone*?
[21:50] <maco> A few days ago Laura Czajkowski gave a session on event organizing. She mentioned Geeknics.
[21:50] <czajkowski> yup
[21:50] <maco> Find a park, have a picnic, make it potluck style so everyone's guaranteed there's something they'll like
[21:50] <czajkowski> cypher.skynet.ie/Openweek
[21:51] <maco> Next?
[21:51] <pleia2> < LaserJock> QUESTION: Is it possible to create too "safe" for a place? Can it can it create, for lack of a better term, thin skin when people have to deal with other communities?
[21:52] <maco> I love the Ubuntu community.  When I am shocked by visits to non-Ubuntu IRC channels, I consider this a deficiency in them, not in me.
[21:53] <maco> Yes, I've gotten used to the cozy encouraging atmosphere we have.  I don't think that makes abrasive arses any less of arses though.
[21:53] <maco> There was one someone sent me before I starte
[21:54] <maco> question: would it be helpful or merely silencing for men to take on some of the Unicorn Talks (to highlight that it's a *community* issue)
[21:54] <maco> To that I say: allies rock!
[21:55] <maco> A lot of you may have seen mdz's feminist blog posts.  I'm glad to have such an eloquent person around to help take care of some of the burden
[21:55] <maco> Next?
[21:55] <pleia2> < efm> What are Unicorn talks?
[21:55] <maco> Ah yeah, the Unicorn Law
[21:55] <maco> I think emmajane came up with this one
[21:56] <maco> Women in Open Source are like unicorns: we're only rumoured to exist :)
[21:56] <maco> Well, what emmajane came up with is the Unicorn Law
[21:56] <maco> and the Unicorn Law states something like (paraphrasing) the longer you are a woman in FOSS the likelihood that you will be approached to speak or write about women in FOSS approaches 1
[21:57] <maco> next?
[21:57] <maco> (last one)
[21:58] <maco> (further questions in #ubuntu-women, but others will answer them because I'm going out to dinner after this)
[21:58] <pleia2> < Jesi-Idle> Question: by windows you must mean because it has so many users, because there really isn't much of a community at all there, there forums are rarely moderated, users rarely receiving any answers, it's not very inviting, so I have to ask what you mean by this, because I don't understand your point
[21:58] <maco> Yes, because there are so many users
[21:59] <maco> Windows users can turn to the next cubicle over for help
[21:59] <maco> We usually can't, so it's important that we know where to find each other.
[21:59] <maco> Alright, I think that's a wrap! Thanks for coming folks!
[22:04] <positiv> is there anyone here really experienced with partitions?
[22:06] <Xiella`> positiv: you can find support in #ubuntu
[22:07] <yos> Ah, no more sessions today ?
[22:07] <sebsebseb> There was going to be a Wine one, but not anymore :(
[22:07] <yos> :(
[22:15] <brettalton> Does anyone know why there is no session on Wine anymore? The schedule keeps changing and its very frustrating
[22:15] <brettalton> If you look at the PDF that Ubuntu released and had professionally designed, it's completely different from the one on the wiki
[22:15] <AlanBell> brettalton: the wine one got cancelled
[22:16] <AlanBell> the Mark Shuttleworth one got moved, which probably pushed a few other things about
[22:16] <pleia2> brettalton: unfortunately people have things come up unexpectedly sometimes, these were last minute changes :(
[22:16] <AlanBell> the wiki is going to be more up to date than a prepared PDF
[22:16] <pleia2> sorry for the trouble, but there was nothing that could be done to prevent it
[22:17] <brettalton> no problem. just am a little frustrated... passionate Ubuntu user you know :P
[22:17] <brettalton> I understand the situation so thanks.
[22:30] <awesome> Hello
[22:31] <Guest83001> Can any one tell me how to get the fire fox falsh plug in for ubunti 9.10
[22:35] <gamerchick02> Guest83001: this question might be posed better in #ubuntu, but you can get it from the repos. enable the multiverse repo and then search for flash.
[22:36] <Guest83001> Thanks
[22:41] <gamerchick02> you're welcome.


[05:30] <adiroiban_> ds
[05:38] <j1mc> hi adiroiban and adiroiban_
[05:38] <adiroiban> j1mc:  :)
[05:38] <adiroiban> hi
[05:38] <j1mc> would you like to talk now?
[05:38] <adiroiban> yep
[05:39] <j1mc> ok... i'm getting another look at the bug report
[05:39] <adiroiban> the idea is just to have a quick chat
[05:39] <j1mc> ok
[05:39] <adiroiban> and see what is the current status and what we can do / help
[05:39] <j1mc> i'm going to be rebasing the xubuntu docs off of the current ubuntu docs
[05:39] <adiroiban> i have exported the translations from Launchpad
[05:40] <j1mc> so i'll need to get in some big changes before translations should start
[05:40] <adiroiban> and now I'm working at creating a script for doing all the transtlation and html generation from a bzr branch
[05:40] <j1mc> cool. :)
[05:40] <adiroiban> j1mc: are you still going to use docbook ?
[05:40] <j1mc> yes
[05:41] <adiroiban> ok. in this case I will create a folder structure similar to ubuntu-docs
[05:41] <adiroiban> so that we can share some scripts
[05:42] <j1mc> cool - do you want to use xubuntu-specific folder or document names?
[05:42] <adiroiban> the idea is to have similar lib and script folders
[05:43] <adiroiban> as for ubuntu-docs
[05:43] <adiroiban> no need to be identical...but try to keep them close
[05:43] <j1mc> so david's email about prepending the source package name only applies to the translation templates?
[05:44] <adiroiban> j1mc: yep... and only for the big list from Ubuntu
[05:44] <adiroiban> since we will now have xubuntu-docs translations in a dedicated project
[05:44] <adiroiban> we don't need to append xubuntu-docs
[05:45] <j1mc> ... ok.  i think xubuntu-docs won't have the same issues now... because they are in universe.
[05:45] <j1mc> should i let you know when i've merged in the ubuntu docs, and have gotten things ready to start some translations?
[05:46] <j1mc> should i use the "status" portion of each document to indicate if something is ready for translation?
[05:46] <adiroiban> j1mc: what do you mean my "merged in the ubuntu docs" ?
[05:46] <j1mc> i'm going to rebase xubutu docs off of the current ubuntu docs
[05:46] <j1mc> so i will be throwing out a good chunk of xubuntu content at the start
[05:47] <adiroiban> j1mc: ok. that will be much easier for translatoins... most probably the translations script are already in place
[05:47] <j1mc> yes
[05:47] <adiroiban> we just need to take care of generating the required html files... as ubuntu-docs uses xml
[05:47] <adiroiban> but I did that for kubuntu-docs
[05:47] <adiroiban> well
[05:48] <adiroiban> then
[05:48] <j1mc> yes - xubuntu docs will only be output to html
[05:48] <adiroiban> as soon as you have pushed the new xubuntu-docs
[05:48] <j1mc> but ... i don't want people to start translating until i get things in decent shape, does that make sense?
[05:48] <j1mc> otherwise, they'll be wasting their time
[05:48] <adiroiban> let me know and I will do the required steps for enabling translations
[05:49] <adiroiban> and generating the translated html files
[05:49] <j1mc> ok - it will be at leasta few weeks
[05:50] <adiroiban> j1mc: sure. usualy the announcemnet for translators is done only after doc string freeze
[05:50] <adiroiban> but meanwhile we can prepare the required infrastructure
[05:50] <j1mc> ok - thanks.  that sounds good.  i'd still like to get things done in advance of string freeze... i think there will be more xubuntu stuff to translate this time.
[05:51] <adiroiban> great.
[05:51] <adiroiban> than I will wait for the new xubuntu-docs branch for lucid to be pushed
[05:51] <adiroiban> then I will wait for the new xubuntu-docs branch for lucid to be pushed
[05:51] <j1mc> anything else that you want to discuss for now?
[05:52] <adiroiban> nope
[05:52] <adiroiban> I just wanted to know what are your plans
[05:52] <shaunm> j1mc: do you guys use xml2po for translations on this stuff?
[05:52] <adiroiban> and see what I should do next
[05:52] <adiroiban> shaunm: yep
[05:52] <shaunm> cool
[05:52] <j1mc> shaunm: yes...
[05:53] <adiroiban> j1mc: I was not sure if you are using docbook or mallard
[05:53] <j1mc> i'm going to use mallard for the xfce documentation for now
[05:54] <adiroiban> but if you are going with something similar to ubuntu-docs , everhing should be fine
[05:54] <j1mc> and will look to use it for xubuntu documentation in the future
[05:54] <shaunm> I only ask because we'll probably be moving xml2po out of gnome-doc-utils, in part to encourage more widespread use
[05:54] <j1mc> but not during this release cycle
[05:54] <shaunm> but it does't seem like the packaging is an issue for you
[05:55] <j1mc> shaunm: yeah, i think having xml2po separated out might be helpful for the xfce guys for now.
[05:55] <adiroiban> shaunm: if you want to help with packaging there is place you can help
[05:55] <j1mc> shaunm: i'm in favor of the new naming conventions you've mentioned.
[05:55] <adiroiban> shaunm: just ignore my last statement :)
[05:55] <j1mc> i've just been on vacation, so hadn't responded
[05:57] <j1mc> adiroiban: i'll be in touch when xubuntu-docs are ready
[05:57] <adiroiban> j1mc: ok. np
[05:58] <shaunm> cool
[05:58] <j1mc> thanks for your help, adi.  looks like this is going to be a good release for translations
[05:58] <shaunm> ok, bed time for shaunm
[05:58] <j1mc> later, shaunm
[05:58] <adiroiban> j1mc: I hope so :)
[05:59] <adiroiban> j1mc: I will also go to sleep soon
[06:01] <j1mc> 'night, adiroiban
[06:01] <j1mc> i'm off to bed, too.
[06:03] <j1mc> goodnight, all
[22:51] <Rocket2DMn> mdke, if you're around, i have a couple of quick questions on some bugs


[07:03] <pitti> Good morning
[07:10] <didrocks> good morning
[07:10] <TheMuso> Morning didrocks, pitti.
[07:11] <pitti> hey TheMuso
[07:11] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[07:11] <didrocks> hey TheMuso, how are you?
[07:11] <TheMuso> didrocks: Well thanks, yourself?
[07:11] <didrocks> guten morgen pitti
[07:11] <didrocks> TheMuso: I'm fine, thanks :-)
[07:37] <didrocks> pitti: the separate "SRU bug" for empathy was because for the first, we didn't intend to include the patch debian/patches/91_git_fix_small_font.patch fixing the other bug (remember, I asked you to reject it)
[07:41] <pitti> didrocks: right, that's fine
[08:09] <huats> morning
[08:09] <pitti> bonjour huats
[08:09] <pitti> comment vas-tu?
[08:10] <huats> hello pitti
[08:10] <huats> I am fine thanks ! way too busy with my company + baby
[08:10] <huats> but fine :)
[08:10] <huats> what about you pitti ?
[08:11] <pitti> I'm great, thanks; looking forward to the weekend, we'll go tenting
[08:11] <pitti> it'll get ~ 32 degrees, what better to do than swimming and idling on the beach :)
[08:12] <huats> pitti, sounfs terrific indeed !
[08:14] <didrocks> salut huats
[08:14] <huats> hello didrocks
[08:28] <cassidy> seb128, nope, never heard of it
[08:29] <seb128> hey cassidy
[08:29] <seb128> ok
[08:29] <cassidy> it's reproductible ?
[08:31] <seb128> I've not tried yet, will do that now
[08:31] <didrocks> seb128: thanks for the evo fix btw
[08:32] <seb128> didrocks, np
[08:32] <didrocks> cassidy: seb128: I tried on <IP_ADDRESS> and gtalk on a fresh box, can't reproduce
[08:32] <seb128> didrocks, ok, thanks
[08:33] <didrocks> yw
[08:33] <cassidy> IIRC I didn't touch this wizard in the last stable release so I'd be surprised that's a regression
[08:33] <cassidy> but we never know
[08:34] <didrocks> (also I clearly remember to have setup a new account for 2.30.2, so not reproduceable in the new -proposed version)
[08:35] <seb128> "- note that even if I get the "Please enter personal details" page, no matter if I selected the "I don't want to enable this feature for now", the apply button is grayed when I enter nothing and empathy, in the meawhile is connecting the account. Consequently, I can just hit "cancel""
[08:35] <seb128> didrocks, that's buggy
[08:35] <seb128> cassidy, ^
[08:36] <didrocks> yeah, that's buggy, but the account is added, it's not totally broken as the bug report is telling
[08:36] <seb128> didrocks, that might be the issue the user is having
[08:36] <seb128> well it's not obvious for the user the account is added still
[08:36] <cassidy> that's still weird, it used to work fine
[08:36] <didrocks> hum, I didn't understand that. I was thinking he told "I can't add my acount"
[08:36] <cassidy> didrocks, did you observe that as well ?
[08:36] <didrocks> account*
[08:36] <didrocks> cassidy: yeah, this quote is mine :-)
[08:36] <cassidy> ah ok :)
[08:36] <seb128> didrocks, well "I can't finish the wizard" is easy to map to "I can't add my account"
[08:37] <cassidy> didrocks, can you fw this issue upstream please?
[08:37] <didrocks> cassidy: sure
[08:37] <didrocks> should check in .2, I don't remember if I had that
[08:38] <didrocks> seb128: you still see that the account is connected before hiting "cancel", so I think the user would have noticed
[08:38] <seb128> didrocks, I think you give lot of credits to users ;-)
[08:39] <didrocks> seb128: maybe, I'm too optimistic, indeed ^^
[08:39] <seb128> quite some users are really focussed on the dialog they interact with and will not notice other changes on screen
[08:39] <didrocks> let me confirm with .2
[08:39] <seb128> so if they fail to complete the wizard they will perceive the configuration to have failed
[08:39] <didrocks> right, that makes sense
[08:42] <seb128> didrocks, it's working for me in .2
[08:42] <seb128> let me try .1.1
[08:43] <didrocks> seb128: in .2, I don't have the proposal of "not adding more detail info"
[08:44] <seb128> the page to add infos on local accounts has a checkbox "don't use that"
[08:44] <didrocks> yeah, and then on next screen, I can check "I don't want to enable this feature for now" and hit apply
[08:44] <didrocks> so it's fixed
[08:44] <didrocks> yeah, the UI is different
[08:44] <seb128> cassidy, ^ seems to be alright in .2
[08:44] <seb128> I'm trying 1.1 just to check the difference
[08:45] <cassidy> I'd be surprised that matters
[08:45] <didrocks> seb128: you should see 3 options on the account creation screen, one being basically being "skip enter personal detail screen"
[08:49] <seb128> didrocks, works the same way in 1.1
[08:49] <seb128> the dialog has "do you want to configure another account"
[08:49] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, but in previous dialog you had another option
[08:49] <seb128> if you let it on no you get the local dialog info screen where you can check the "don't enter infos"
[08:50] <didrocks> let me check again, I was maybe not awake :-)
[08:50] <didrocks> I'm pretty sure to have exactly what was writtent on the bug report
[08:56] <didrocks> seb128: I don't understand, I don't get the same thing here. But contrary to have a new box, I removed previous account. I wonder if that can have an influence
[08:58] <seb128> it might
[08:59] <seb128> I did try by removing .mission-control and stopping mission-control-5 then restarting empathy
[09:11] <and471> mvo, do you have any idea when this stuff will start being worked on (or has it already started?) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareUpdateHandling
[09:13] <seb128> dear aptd please stop crashing
[09:13] <mvo> seb128: do you have a backtrace?
[09:14] <mvo> and471: work on the glade stuff in the update-settings is started, but it needs some love to software-properties
[09:14] <seb128> mvo, will get you one, apport keeps triggering every time I use update-manager in maverick since I reenabled apport there
[09:14] <mvo> and471: so that s-p gets a dbus backend and can run as the user
[09:14] <mvo> and471: most(?) of this should be possible today with aptdaemon
[09:14] <and471> mvo, what language will both be in?
[09:15] <mvo> and471: python
[09:15] <and471> mvo, :)
[09:15] <and471> mvo, where can I start?
[09:15] <mvo> and471: the right question ;) porting software-properties is certainly a good start
[09:16] <and471> mvo, I am not experienced in the backend apt stuff
[09:16] <and471> mvo, but could I start ont he frontend
[09:16] <mvo> and471: fagan was doing some work on the glade side, best to coordinate with him
[09:17] <and471> mvo, using the gtkbuilder framework for software-center?
[09:17] <and471> mvo, simplebuilderapp
[09:17] <and471> mvo, or whatever it was called
[09:17] <and471> mvo, cool
[09:17] <mvo> and471: yeah
[09:17] <and471> mvo, well I shall have a look :)
[09:17] <and471> mvo, goota go now, giving all my books back after exams :D
[09:17] <and471> *gotta
[09:17] <and471> mvo, see ya
[09:17] <mvo> see you
[09:22] <seb128>     self._emit_acquire_item(item)
[09:22] <seb128>   File "/usr/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/aptdaemon/progress.py", line 119, in _emit_acquire_item
[09:22] <seb128>     elif item.owner.status == apt_pkg.AcquireItem.STAT_FAILED:
[09:22] <seb128> AttributeError: type object 'apt_pkg.AcquireItem' has no attribute 'STAT_FAILED'
[09:22] <seb128> Traceback (most recent call last):
[09:22] <seb128> mvo, ^
[09:22] <mvo> seb128: thanks, that looks like a bug in python-apt, I work on it
[09:22] <seb128> mvo, thanks, want it in launchpad?
[09:25] <mvo> seb128: no thanks, I fix it right here
[09:26] <seb128> mvo, you rock, thanks
[09:30] <mvo> seb128: fix uploaded, let me know
[09:30] <seb128> mvo, ;-)
[09:30] <seb128> I will
[09:31] <seb128> pitti, \o/ no directfb ;-)
[09:31] <pitti> seb128: muhaha!
[09:32] <pitti> seb128: btw, did you see that mail about "live cd optimization" from the other day on -devel (or -discuss)?
[09:32] <pitti> could be interesting to hook optipng and the svg optimization stuff into our build scripts
[09:32] <seb128> that was some weeks ago?
[09:32] <pitti> yes
[09:32] <seb128> the one which suggested changing images quality and sort of things?
[09:32] <pitti> 21.05.10 02:35 Louis Simard      LiveCD optimisations
[09:32] <pitti> no, not quality
[09:32] <seb128> right
[09:34] <seb128> pitti, sorry I though that things like optipng were changing the image
[09:35] <seb128> but right some of the ideas might be worth investigating
[09:35] <pitti> well, they do, but only the encoding, not the quality; png is lossless
[09:35] <pitti> he claims an 11 MB size reduction, which is quite amazing
[09:52] <and471> mvo, if fagan comes on IRC, can you tell him I want to speak to him
[10:27] <seb128> didrocks, cassidy: comments on bug #597556 seems to confirm what didrocks suggested
[10:27] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 597556 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Cannot complete Empathy add account wizard (affects: 2) (heat: 12)" [Low,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/597556
[10:28] <seb128> it doesn't happen with clean profiles but with ones where accounts have been tweaked
[10:28] <seb128> so seems some user configurations could be causing the issue
[10:37] <chrisccoulson> ouch, sun-java6 is a 160MB tarball :(
[14:15] <vish> seb128: re: the clean up translations break , that simple bug had stalled since no one pinged the docs team  , and now we are worried about translations after i pinged them   :(
[14:15] <vish> break translations in the sense , that the translations might not benefit from the change?
[14:17] <seb128> vish, right, since we will not pull the new upstream versions we will not get the translations from GNOME so it will need to be translated in rosetta or other locales will see an english string
[14:17] <seb128> vish, you can guess than with enough warning 75% of translations team will get it done
[14:18] <seb128> vish, so basically you drop translations in some languages which don't have active ubuntu translators and create work for other teams
[14:18] <vish> seb128: lets hope and get that in quicker , that they catch it and gets translated  :)
[14:18] <seb128> vish, so you ask yourself if that's really worth the effort and breaking the strings in some translations
[14:19] <vish> :s
[14:19] <seb128> I tend to think that wording changes are not worth having the string useless in some locales because they will get the english versions and they don't read english
[14:21] <vish> seb128: silly Q: cant we pull the translations from upstream for those strings?
[14:21] <seb128> we can
[14:22] <seb128> it just requires patching <n> files by hand
[14:23] <seb128> vish, <n> being one hundred or so
[14:23] <seb128> vish, then tracking every upstream change to those
[14:23] <vish> hm..
[14:23] <seb128> vish, so we can but it has real cost
[14:23] <seb128> I'm really wondering if changing a word is really worth the efforts
[14:24] <vish> seb128: oh well , your call .   I'd hoped it can make it.
[14:24] <seb128> it can
[14:24] <seb128> it's just costy
[14:25] <seb128> we could fix some code bugs during the same time
[14:25] <vish> yeah :(
[14:25] <seb128> so it's a tradeoff on what we want to get in
[14:25] <seb128> ie I could backport some of the location bar fixes rather than the string change for the same effort
[14:25] <vish> hehe :)
[14:28]  * vish tries to find mdc to get some location bar fixes ;)
[14:35] <vish> seb128: so , https://bugs.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/503330 , would be tough to get in M too?
[14:35] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 503330 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "In the file operation dialog, the file count and the size count change in opposite direction. (affects: 1) (heat: 21)" [Low,Triaged]
[14:36] <vish> the sentence needs changing there
[14:37] <vish> because upstream is considering an easy fix for the time being , for us , if its not going to make it , we can fix it properly
[14:38] <seb128> vish, right
[14:39] <seb128> vish, I'm still pondering trying to get the new nautilus in maverick there is lot of nice things there
[14:39] <vish> cool , so we can fix it properly itself
[14:39] <vish> yeah :D
[15:17] <vish> lamalex: hi , any progress on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=585914  ? or is it only banshee these days ;p
[15:17] <ubot2> Gnome bug 585914 in Notifications "Notification icon must be clicked before user can see new messages" [Normal,New]
[15:18] <pitti> bye everyone, have a nice weekend!
[15:18] <lamalex> vish: the empathy guys finished the job. I had planned on testing but it requires a much newer glib and I don't feel like completely destabilizing my system
[15:18] <vish> lamalex: i thought so too , but why isnt the bug closed?  looks like the depends was closed
[15:18] <lamalex> or rather they did the back work of making the status icon a proper approver
[15:19] <vish> ah right
[15:19] <lamalex> i dont know if they fixed their behavior or not
[15:19] <lamalex> like I said, I wanted to test
[15:19] <vish> cool..
[15:19] <lamalex> but they use gsettings and all of the fancy new glib features
[15:21] <lamalex> does maverick have glib 2.25?
[15:22] <lamalex> packages.ubuntu.com is being weird or else I'd check myself
[15:23] <vish> not sure , i'm still on lucid too
[15:25] <lamalex> vish: I'm asking in #empathy :P they'll know
[15:25] <vish> heh
[15:26] <vish> lamalex: if you keep saying empathy a fews times here too , some of those folks might answer ;)  [empathy highlights fwiw ;p]
[15:26] <lamalex> haha
[15:27] <lamalex> 10:26 <cassidy> it's not yet fixed but I'll probably fix it soon as we all have the pieces in place now
[15:28] <cassidy> you could have ask me directly :p
[15:31] <lamalex> I didn't realize you were in here
[15:31] <vish> lamalex: told ya some of them hide here ;)
[16:18] <LaserJock> didrocks: is the newest unity supposed to decrease mutter's CPU usage at all?
[16:18] <didrocks> LaserJock: not what I know of, just some optimization on places, why?
[16:33] <didrocks> uuid.getnode() doesn't play nicely at all with threading
[16:38] <LaserJock> didrocks: I get a fairly higher load average in Unity than the old UNE
[16:38] <LaserJock> didrocks: and it looks to be mostly in mutter (i.e. mutter is the #1 process in CPU usage for the most part)
[16:38] <didrocks> LaserJock: so, it's not supposed to decrease, but rather increasing :)
[16:39] <didrocks> LaserJock: yeah, mutter can be guilty I guess
[16:39] <didrocks> LaserJock: you can try running mutter without unity too
[16:39] <didrocks> like in the GNOME session: mutter --replace
[16:41] <LaserJock> didrocks: also mutter is taking a whole lot of RAM
[16:41] <didrocks> LaserJock: mutter is quite young too. I think it'll be better with time as it was for compiz
[16:41] <LaserJock> 135MB RES, which is the highest consuming process
[16:42] <LaserJock> sure sure, but this targeted for netbook right? ;-)
[16:43] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, but my evolution which is also on my netbook takes more :-)
[16:44] <didrocks> it think those bugs will be fixed in near futur, now it's more feature development than bug/ressources fixing
[16:44] <didrocks> in any case, you should have a look at mutter --replace in GNOME session
[16:44] <didrocks> and see how much RAM it's taking
[16:44] <didrocks> if there is a huge difference, unity can be guilty
[16:44] <LaserJock> k
[16:45] <LaserJock> well, I can't imagine using evo on a netbook so maybe my standards a too high :-)
[16:46] <lamalex> does evo express use less ram than regular evo?
[16:47] <didrocks> lamalex: didn't benchmarked that, there is less elements drawned, so maybe
[16:47] <lamalex> seems like une should ship evo express, since it's you know - for netbooks
[16:49] <ogra> LaserJock, thats why we use webmail in the low spec netbook images (i.e. arm)
[16:49] <ogra> as well as weboffice
[16:49] <LaserJock> yeah
[16:49] <didrocks> lamalex: it's already the plan, discussed at UDS and tracker as A3 item
[16:49] <LaserJock> I can't imagine actually using a desktop client for email anymore
[16:50] <ogra> dropping evo gave us 60MB free space on the image :)
[16:50] <ogra> dropping OO.o another 150 :)
[16:51] <lamalex> sweet
[16:52] <LaserJock> my problem now is bad network connections
[16:52] <LaserJock> everything is online so with spotty internet, things can be frustrating :-)
[16:53] <didrocks> not the case when I triage my email on plane for instance :-)
[16:53] <LaserJock> well
[16:53] <LaserJock> assuming you can actually get your email client up and see anything
[16:53] <didrocks> which is working well for me
[16:53] <LaserJock> TBird and Evo have always had such horrible UI for me on the netbook
[16:54] <LaserJock> hopefully with this new Evo Express it'll be worth a shot maybe
[16:58] <didrocks> LaserJock: you should try it, it's good
[16:58] <didrocks> LaserJock: add --express on maverick
[16:58] <didrocks> and -c <component>
[16:59] <didrocks> lamalex: did you got some time to have a shot on the notification vs empty list thing for banshee?
[16:59] <lamalex> didrocks: not yet, I've been focusing on udev
[16:59] <lamalex> we're REALLY close to finishing
[17:00] <didrocks> lamalex: sure :-) that's way more important
[17:00] <didrocks> lamalex: awesome :)
[17:00] <didrocks> lamalex: are there still some remaining tricks?
[17:00] <lamalex> yeah, just trying to track down audiocd support
[17:00] <lamalex> once that is up (and it's pretty close I think) we'll have a fully working hal-less banshee
[17:01] <didrocks> yeah, I saw about android detection too, congrats :)
[17:01] <LaserJock> didrocks: I'm not sure I'm up for maverick yet. I only have one computer (my netbook) and it's also my work computer
[17:02] <didrocks> LaserJock: you can just give it a shot in testdrive or in a live :-)
[17:03] <LaserJock> didrocks: lol, testdrive? I can't imagine that working well on my Atom N270
[17:04] <LaserJock> but yeah, maybe I'll grab an image and try it off a USB stick
[17:04] <didrocks> LaserJock: on atom, yeah, not the best platform for virtualization :)
[17:05] <LaserJock> I really need to find a machine to run KVM, just so I can say I've tried it
[17:06] <didrocks> heh
[17:11] <LaserJock> didrocks: oh, did the unity bzr branches move somewhere? I'm using ~canonical-dx-team/unity/trunk/ but I haven't seen any updates
[17:12] <didrocks> LaserJock: it's ~unity-team/unity/trunk now
[17:12] <didrocks> I told you we will fix it :-)
[17:13] <LaserJock> ah, great, but the PPA is still at ~canonical-dx-team?
[17:14] <didrocks> yeah, it's just a ppa for people waiting to test, not a big deal (and moving the ppa after the advertisement we made is not a good choice)
[17:14] <LaserJock> sure, just checking
[17:14] <lamalex> some of the newer atoms have v
[17:14] <lamalex> vt
[17:41] <seb128> pedro_, great work on the gstreamer bugs ;-)
[17:41] <pedro_> seb128, thanks!. they way too many old ones there, time to do some clean up ;-)
[17:41] <seb128> indeed
[17:42] <seb128> I guess that's true on other components as well ;-)
[17:42] <seb128> do you have scripts to do that? or just stock replies and browsing bug lists?
[17:43] <pedro_> i went trough the bug lists to review the bugs then i pass the number to an script for adding the response/status
[17:43] <seb128> ok
[17:43] <pedro_> i don't trust the scripts for doing all automatically, one could miss some important info
[17:44] <seb128> yeah, same here
[17:44] <pedro_> like 'the bug is no longer an issue' or things like that
[17:44] <seb128> I tend to use stock replies rather than a script though
[17:44] <seb128> but you get to wait on launchpad to commit the change
[17:45] <seb128> well if you have tabs and go the next one that's usually ok ;-)
[17:47] <pedro_> yeah, for normal triage that's ok i think, but for a few bugs i prefer to add it with an script, that way i don't get piss when getting the launchpad oops or timeouts :-P


[14:21] <Kurdistan> hi the kernel from http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/ is there any way to add the ubuntu patches to them? if so, how?
[14:22] <Kurdistan> http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/  <<<---- I understand this kernels are vanilla kernels without ubuntu patches
[14:24] <Kurdistan> also were can I find the ubuntu patches
[19:25] <CarlFK> append ... ip=<IP_ADDRESS> netconsole=@/eth0,@<IP_ADDRESS>/00:08:02:a0:ab:cf
[19:25] <CarlFK> "netconsole: ni IP address for eth0, aborting"
[19:26] <CarlFK> /ni/no
[19:27] <CarlFK> I am guessing ip= isn't right?
[21:02] <CarlFK> http://dpaste.de/wPT8S/     69.489000]  [<c151a3f2>] ? printk+0x2d/0x2f[   69.489198]  [<c151a2d0>] panic+0x5c/0x151[   69.489399]  [<c104b384>] forget_original_parent+0x1e4/0x1f0


[15:37] <nnnaji> season's greetings
[15:38] <nnnaji> does anyone know a way of setting up an automatic respawn for compiz, to do a "compiz --replace" automatically, when compiz crashes?
[15:38] <nnnaji> it's crashing quite often on me.. unity on natty alpha
[15:39] <nnnaji> gnome-panel does that, too, unless you sudo chmod -x /usr/bin/gnome-panel
[15:39] <nnnaji> how can i enable such a respawn for compiz ?
[15:55] <OmegaYear> Merry Haxmas
[18:43] <Muscovy> Is it just me, or is the Natty Unity dash not working?
[18:44] <spikeb> i wasn't aware it was implemented yet.
[18:45] <Muscovy> Hmm.