[00:11] <jbicha> robert_ancell: good afternoon, did you see LP: #1695212 ?
[00:11] <robert_ancell> hmm, no
[00:16] <jbicha> could you cancel and restart these 2 builds, the tests got stuck:
[00:16] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2797/+build/12694951
[00:16] <jbicha> https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2797/+build/12694949
[01:41] <Trevinho> duflu: hey, morning...
[01:42] <duflu> Trevinho: Morning
[01:42] <Trevinho> duflu: I was thinking, how the subpixel windows are managed in mir? You mentioned that iirc...
[01:42] <Trevinho> like for fractional-sized windows or something, right?
[01:43] <duflu> Trevinho: I only talked about theoretical plans, and one actual demo shell that hardly anyone used :)
[01:43] <duflu> Trevinho: Regardless... what's the question?
[01:52] <duflu> Trevinho, robert_ancell: Silly question - what and where is the gnome-shell log?
[01:58] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: it should go in journalctl
[01:58] <Trevinho> err duflu ^
[02:00] <duflu> Trevinho, doesn't seem to be there (yet). Or isn't logging anything
[02:01] <Trevinho> duflu: by default it doesn't say much actuallly...
[02:01] <duflu> Trevinho, heh, sounds important. All these bug reports about gnome-shell not working and we don't have it logging anything useful yet?! :)
[02:02] <duflu> I'm sure it tries to log to somewhere
[02:02] <Trevinho> duflu: unless you don't set G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all (or better filter) you won't see much
[02:03] <duflu> Oh I see. It's there but logs almost nothing useful
[02:03] <duflu> journalctl /usr/bin/gnome-shell
[02:03] <Trevinho> FourDollars: https://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24789597/
[02:04] <robert_ancell> duflu, I've found no useful debugging
[02:05] <robert_ancell> A little bit worrying really
[02:05] <duflu> robert_ancell: Perhaps wrong default log level?
[02:05] <Trevinho> even running it from jhbuild it just says few things unless you don't enable debugging
[02:05] <robert_ancell> duflu, I've tried G_MESSAGES_DEBUG=all
[02:06] <Trevinho> that's a lot :-)
[02:07] <Trevinho> duflu: so for subpixel windows I mean, there was any smart behavior we could reuse in the case when a wayland client is fractionally scaled and that leads to fractional size.... The fact that both the toolkit and wayland doesn't support it to be fractionally scaled is a problem, but mutter can do somthing maybe when compositing...
[02:09] <robert_ancell> Trevinho, you do get a lot of debugging with G_MESSAGES_DEBUB=all?
[02:09] <Trevinho> robert_ancell: yes.. at least in my jhbuild instance
[02:09] <robert_ancell> perhaps I'm doing it wrong then
[02:09] <sarnold> DEBUB, heh :) "hey bub just work alright?"
[02:10] <robert_ancell> :P
[02:13] <duflu> Trevinho: If you have an imperfect combination then my only advice is to keep the Nyquist–Shannon sampling theorem in mind. Basically make sure you're rendering at >=2.0 * physical resolution if the compositor is displaying it via GL minification
[02:14] <duflu> Although I adhere to that more out of habit now, even without proof that it's relevant
[02:16] <duflu> robert_ancell, Trevinho, RAOF: If anyone is interested then please comment on bug 1696030
[03:40] <FourDollars> Trevinho: Did you use hackpad, etherpad or something else to collect the information for this hackfest?
[03:41] <Trevinho> FourDollars: nope... :-)
[03:41] <Trevinho> Just a text file so far...
[03:41] <Trevinho> FourDollars: come over here, so we can talk directly
[03:42] <FourDollars> Trevinho: OK.
[03:51] <FourDollars> Trevinho: I made https://hackmd.io/KwQwxiAsCmCMwFoCcJiwTAHAEwSESiAbAOwDMYJcAZtWWdkA to collect the information.
[05:56] <andyrock> good morning
[06:06] <oSoMoN> hey desktoppers!
[06:59] <didrocks> good morning
[07:02] <jibel> morning
[07:03] <didrocks> salut jibel, bon week-end ?
[07:12] <jibel> salut didrocks, ça a été. relativement calme, ciné, et rien de particulier hier pour cause de tempête
[07:12] <jibel> didrocks, et toi?
[07:14] <didrocks> jibel: pareil, plutôt calme, on est plutôt resté à la maison, au loin de la chaleur
[07:15] <jibel> didrocks, ici pas de probleme de chaleur :)
[07:17] <didrocks> oui, j'imagine :)
[07:34] <didrocks> jibel: do you know why kenvandine[m][m] readeed unity to ubuntu-meta?
[07:36] <didrocks>   Added unity, unity-settings-daemon and unity-control-center back to keep it working in parallel with gnome-shell until it no longer requires gdm's gsettings schema installed.
[07:36] <didrocks> ok ^
[07:36] <jibel> didrocks, not at all. To fix the iso?
[07:36] <didrocks> I thought the iso had it though
[07:37] <didrocks> ok, so not going to push further in the unity removal, I just did the livecd-rootfs change
[07:37] <didrocks> it should be a noop, but better to check the image back tomorrow
[07:45] <Trevinho> morining guys
[07:47] <didrocks> hey Trevinho!
[07:47] <Trevinho> hi didrocks
[07:57]  * Trevinho didn't have the most important thing for this hackfest: a magnifier! :-D
[08:02] <willcooke> morning all
[08:02] <didrocks> good morning willcooke
[08:03] <Laney> yooooooooooo
[08:03] <seb128> good morning desktopers
[08:03] <seb128> hey Trevinho Laney willcooke
[08:03] <seb128> re didrocks
[08:03] <duflu> Hi seb128, all
[08:03] <Laney> what's up
[08:03] <didrocks> re seb128, hey duflu, Laney
[08:03] <Trevinho> hi seb128
[08:03] <seb128> heu duflu
[08:03] <oSoMoN> morning everyone!
[08:04] <seb128> everybody had a good w.e and start of week?
[08:04] <didrocks> hey oSoMoN
[08:04] <Trevinho> problems of HIDPI debugging...  https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/2cdbcPT5/20170606_160042.jpg
[08:04] <seb128> hey oSoMoN
[08:04] <seb128> Trevinho, lol
[08:07] <Trevinho> https://plus.google.com/+MarcoTrevisan/posts/ViThEuwaVLk
[08:09] <oSoMoN> nice
[08:10] <didrocks> Laney: FYI, in case you didn't notice, I've made the livecd-rootfs change, which should still work even if Ken readded Unity for now
[08:10] <didrocks> I'll get to the bottom of removal (ubuntu-session clearly at least) and others when Robert will have fixed the gdm thingy
[08:14] <seb128> didrocks, I think Ken added back unity to have a working session until g-s is fixed
[08:14] <seb128> which apparently is not going to be that easy
[08:14] <didrocks> yeah, that was my "even if Ken readded Unity for now" (and I looked at the seed changelog)
[08:14] <Laney> hey didrocks
[08:14] <Laney> good, you found out what it was for
[08:15] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, having one iso to confirm that the seed addition instead of those hardcoded packages still work for us isn't a luxury
[08:15] <didrocks> so, I'll look at the iso tomorrow, no rush to respin it I guess
[08:16] <Laney> I don't see much movement on the gdm thing :/
[08:16] <didrocks> yeah
[08:16] <seb128> robert_ancell is never verbose on IRC/email/launchpad
[08:17] <seb128> so difficult to know how much on top of it he his
[08:17] <seb128> willcooke did you catch up with him yesterday?
[08:17] <Laney> he said in here last night that he hadn't seen the bug
[08:18] <seb128> :-(
[08:18] <seb128> that was at his start of day though?
[08:18] <seb128> but I guess nobody talked to him in his evening
[08:19]  * seb128 looks at irclog, who knows; maybe jbicha did
[08:19] <Laney> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1695212/comments/6
[08:23] <seb128> :-/
[08:24] <Laney> anyway
[08:24] <Laney> ken talked to security about the possibility of the other plan
[08:28] <seb128> the other plan is to use lightdm but also promote gdm to use the bindings?
[08:29] <seb128> so having both sources in main?
[08:30] <jibel> Laney, is the revert supposed to fix the iso.?
[08:30] <Laney> I think that was the idea
[08:30] <Laney> does it?
[08:30] <jibel> Laney, it didn't
[08:30] <Laney> it wasn't a revert
[08:30] <Laney> it was adding unity back as well
[08:30] <jibel> let me double check the image
[08:30] <Laney> k, can you tell kenvandine later please?
[08:30] <Laney> probably need to make it a full revert then
[08:31] <didrocks> unity starts on the image
[08:31] <jibel> ah wrong image, it synced previous
[08:31] <didrocks> but yeah, if you select the g-s session, it fails
[08:31] <didrocks> (as expected)
[08:31] <Laney> expected
[08:31] <Laney> :)
[08:31] <jibel> resyncing
[08:34] <jibel> Laney, I confirm it is not fixed with latest desktop iso
[08:35] <didrocks> but you have unity starting by default, correct?
[08:35] <jibel> it has ubuntu-desktop 1.385
[08:36] <jibel> black screen in ubiquity-dm, the live session runs unity
[08:37] <didrocks> ok, I only tried the live session
[08:37] <jibel> and black screen when I select install ubuntu, which is expected
[08:39] <jibel> didrocks, libgdm1 is not on the iso
[08:39] <jibel> in the manifest
[08:41] <didrocks> jibel: yeah, the only changed that Ken did is to reseed the unity stack (so, back on Thursday's state)
[08:41] <didrocks> unsure about the ubiquity-dm crash though
[08:51] <jibel> didrocks, could it be that metacity has been removed?
[08:54] <jibel> didrocks, looking at ubiquity-dm's code, it searches for a valid wm starting with gnome-shell
[08:55] <Laney> maybe it prefers gnome-shell
[08:55] <jibel> Laney, yes ,it's the first in the list
[08:55] <Laney> looks like robert just did an upload that is supposed to fix it
[08:56] <jibel> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-installer/ubiquity/trunk/view/head:/bin/ubiquity-dm#L563
[08:56] <Laney> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.24.2-0ubuntu6
[08:56] <Laney> we should try with that once it's available
[08:57] <jibel> k
[09:01]  * Laney syncs an iso
[09:01] <Laney> can probably grab that from proposed
[09:07]  * jibel will never get used to the button on the top right corner of the dialogs :/
[09:11] <jibel> Laney, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/3.24.2-0ubuntu6/+build/12697533
[09:26] <Laney> jibel: yeah
[09:34]  * willcooke puts a jumper on
[09:34] <willcooke> in June
[09:34] <willcooke> grr
[09:35]  * Laney is enjumpered too
[09:36]  * davmor2 points out that willcooke and Laney are wusses
[09:36] <willcooke> :D
[09:36] <Laney> davmor2's in Y fronts
[09:36] <Laney> in the paddling pool
[09:36] <Trevinho> ouch :|
[09:36] <Laney> with a duff
[09:36] <willcooke> in the front garden
[09:37] <Laney> yep
[09:37] <Laney> YOU CALL THIS RAIN
[09:38] <davmor2> pfff you think we have a garden on the 3rd floor nice I'm in the communal rose garden having a natural shower from the sky it's wonderful you should try it :D
[09:39] <Laney> dreich
[09:39] <seb128> I went out to pick up a latte macchiato at a place a few minutes away this morning, was grey and windy
[09:39] <Laney> that's my current favourite word
[09:39] <seb128> started pourring down as I walked back
[09:39] <seb128> I arrived soaked
[09:40] <seb128> now sky is blue
[09:40] <seb128> grrr
[09:40] <Laney> /o\
[09:45] <jibel> Laney, gnome shell starts in a live session and after an installation with latest gnome-shell
[09:45] <Laney> so it's good?
[09:45] <jibel> should we revert the revert?
[09:45] <jibel> yeah
[09:46] <jibel> I didn't try ubiquity-dm
[09:46] <jibel> but we should move forward
[09:46] <Laney> sec
[09:47]  * Laney tries it
[09:47]  * Laney typoed break=bottm
[09:47] <Laney> le fail
[09:52] <Laney> jibel: http://people.canonical.com/~laney/weird-things/ubiquity-dm-gnome-shell.png
[09:52] <Laney> that's the ubiquity-dm
[09:53] <Laney> so yah, seems good to me
[09:53] <jibel> looks good
[09:53] <Laney> might respin an iso after it migrates to be sure
[09:53] <Laney> then we can revert it
[09:54] <Laney> nah, let's try the new state again
[09:55]  * Laney wants to put the new amazon launcher on at the same time, so I'll wait for that to migrate
[09:56]  * Laney did the third -> first person switch there
[09:56]  * Laney I fail
[09:56] <jibel> Laney, the revert didn't change much because we want gnome-shell and with or without the revert is doesn't start. At this point it doesn't seem important to have unity on the daily
[09:57] <Laney> jibel: we didn't actually ever lose Unity anyway :P
[09:57] <Laney> didrock_s fixed that though
[09:57] <Laney> hopefully
[10:18] <Trevinho> leaving for some GNOME beers... See you tomorrow!
[10:26] <willcooke> see ya Trevinho
[10:39] <seb128> Trevinho, enjoy, good to see some of us drinking GNOME beers again ;-)
[11:22] <willcooke> xnox, hey!  Do you think this bug will get any love this cycle?  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1047384
[11:39] <willcooke> woo!  Reinstalled my Zesty machine, connected it to the network, printer was auto discovered and set up.  \o/   Thanks tkamppeter
[11:51] <didrocks> Laney: you need to remove ubuntu-session as well before the respin
[11:51] <didrocks> Laney: want me to do it and reupload (again) ubuntu-meta?
[11:52] <Laney> why need?
[11:52] <didrocks> it has a try-exec, but ubuntu-session brings a lot of unity-* things like unity-settings-daemon
[11:54] <didrocks> so as we are in the cleanup phase (apart if you want to respin an iso first and then, we do the followup cleaning)
[11:54] <Laney> I just wanted to get something working, and I thought you had the task to clean it up
[11:54] <Laney> so it's not "need" as in "something will be broken"?
[11:54] <didrocks> no, just wanted to take the opportunity for that spin
[11:55] <Laney> ok
[11:55] <Laney> go for it if you want
[11:55] <Laney> I'm waiting for unity to drop Task: ubuntu-desktop anyway
[11:55] <didrocks> well, let's get an iso built, you are right
[11:55] <Laney> either the new meta gets in or it doesn't, feel free to upload it
[11:55] <didrocks> ok
[11:55] <Laney> you can look through for other cleanup targets too
[11:55] <Laney> there's probably some stuff
[11:56] <didrocks> right, I wanted to start with that and go incrementally
[11:56] <didrocks> will be easier with a cleaner manifest
[11:56] <Laney> one upload per change?
[11:56] <didrocks> not one per change, but for now, doing the one we know
[11:56] <Laney> easy enough to hit page down a few times and read the list
[11:56] <didrocks> *shrugh*
[11:57] <Laney> if you miss something it's no big deal
[11:57] <Laney> but might as well at least *look*
[11:57] <Laney> :)
[11:57] <didrocks> I see you like being a manager
[11:58] <Laney> umm
[11:59] <Laney> If you don't want to take advice, just go away and do whatever you want
[11:59] <didrocks> sure, in case you believed I didn't look at the content already
[12:03] <didrocks> apart from the examples which stops with the unity video, I don't see anything else to remove from the seed right now
[12:03] <didrocks> but we'll see on the iso
[12:03] <didrocks> (I didn't remove the example package yet, unsure if we want to do a new contest which will include g-s)
[12:49] <jbicha> didrocks: couuld you do a session-migration to convert users' login session from 'ubuntu' to 'gnome'?
[12:50] <didrocks> jbicha: session-migration is user's data focused
[12:50] <jbicha> there's gsettings org.gnome.desktop.session session-name but I think there's also a bit stored in accountsservice
[12:50] <didrocks> it runs in the session
[12:51] <didrocks> don't we still want the user name to be "ubuntu"?
[12:51] <jbicha> ok, what about the accountsservice part
[12:51] <didrocks> (in the live, I guess)
[12:51] <jbicha> not the user name, the session name
[12:51] <jbicha> as in, I'm logging into 'gnome' instead of logging into 'ubuntu' (Unity)
[12:52] <didrocks> jbicha: depending if we enable some extensions by default, but we may still want to have it named "ubuntu"
[12:52] <didrocks> and maybe have the gnome session as in "pure gnome without extensions"
[12:52] <didrocks> I think that should be discussed once we know from ken's survey result if any tweaking is done
[12:52] <jbicha> ok, but what happens if someone upgrades artful and autoremoves unity7?
[12:53] <didrocks> yeah, that's why this should be discussed, what happens in the default session, how do we handle people who want to keep unity7 and such
[12:54] <jbicha> we tell them to re-install unity7 afterwards and choose it from the login screen
[12:54] <didrocks> was that discussed and acked in a team meeting?
[12:54] <jbicha> but we need to change the login session to 'gnome' for the vast majority of people to get on to our default supported desktop
[12:55] <willcooke> We touched on this a bit yesterday, we're going to discuss again in todays meeting
[12:55] <jbicha> we're scheduled to discuss it at today's meeting
[12:55] <didrocks> great, let's get that discussed altogether first
[12:55] <didrocks> I still think if we do a great amount of tweaking, we want 2 sessions
[12:55] <jbicha> ok
[12:55] <didrocks> one being the gnome on ubuntu experience
[12:55] <didrocks> one being "pure gnome" without extensions
[12:56] <didrocks> (and for only the later, "gnome" would make sense)
[12:56] <jbicha> my impression is that we were not doing a lot of tweaking, maybe we'll see kenvandine's report this week :)
[12:56] <kenvandine> to be decided real soon :
[12:56] <kenvandine> :)
[12:56] <didrocks> installing dash2dock or something like that is already a big change regarding default gnome experience
[12:56] <didrocks> (same for anything to remove the legacy systray, which I saw was popular on forums)
[13:04]  * mdeslaur bribes kenvandine with beer for a usable desktop :)
[13:04] <kenvandine> mdeslaur, i take bribes :)
[13:05] <mdeslaur> :)
[13:09] <jbicha> I was arguing with GNOME that a dock is not such a big change after all; it's far closer to the default GNOME experience than GNOME Classic is
[13:10] <jbicha> Classic is almost a dozen extensions that undo most of GNOME 3's design, for the benefit of RHEL users
[13:12] <didrocks> I know that the legacy systray move is a contentious point, talking with GNOME devs living here at least
[13:12] <didrocks> (here == Lyon)
[13:20] <jbicha> kenvandine: could you review the merges at https://bileto.ubuntu.com/#/ticket/2797 ?
[13:23] <jbicha> indicator-datetime's tests are a bit flaky; it was difficult for me to get all arches to build in one try
[13:27] <kenvandine> jbicha, done
[13:39] <jbicha> kenvandine: could you try rebuilding https://launchpad.net/~ci-train-ppa-service/+archive/ubuntu/2797/+build/12695995
[13:41] <seb128> didrocks, jbicha, even if don't have an ubuntu tweaked session I still think we should keep the name "ubuntu" as an alias to "gnome"
[13:41] <seb128> "ubuntu" is "ubuntu desktop env"
[13:41] <kenvandine> jbicha, done
[13:41] <seb128> that's a name users recognize
[13:46] <didrocks> +1
[13:51] <jbicha> we'd probably still need to do the accountsservice migration the other direction then if we keep the 'ubuntu' session-name
[13:53] <seb128> what do you mean?
[13:56] <jbicha> a lot of users run 'gnome' but if the 'gnome' session is shipped in gnome-shell-vanilla or whatever not-installed-by-default-package, they'll need to be switched to 'ubuntu'
[13:57] <jbicha> I don't think we want the default login screen to have options for all of Ubuntu, Ubuntu on X, GNOME, GNOME on X, GNOME Classic, GNOME Classic on X
[13:59] <jibel> why would you need to identify gnome sessions at all? don't we just need an Ubuntu session which starts gnome-shell and an unity session until it's completely removed?
[13:59] <seb128> jbicha, why would be have that list?
[13:59] <seb128> we would have "Ubuntu"
[13:59] <seb128> and "GNOME" for those who have that session installed
[14:00] <seb128> not different from zesty
[14:00] <seb128> just that Ubuntu would start GNOME and not Unity
[14:01] <Laney> jibel: There's an image building with Shell (& not Unity hopefully) now, if you want to take a look when it's done
[14:01] <jibel> Laney, okay
[14:02] <Laney> hopefully it works this time
[14:02]  * Laney goes for lunch
[14:02] <jibel> Laney, I did an installation and installed updates during installation and it worked. Probably is high thazt this image will work too
[14:03] <seb128> Laney, good work, enjoy the well deserved lunch :-)
[14:03] <jbicha> seb128: the problem is upgrades! what happens when a user's login session is set to 'gnome' but if 'gnome' isn't installed?
[14:03] <seb128> jbicha, why would that happen?
[14:03] <seb128> jbicha, what binary package was providing "gnome" and why would it stop doing so?
[14:04] <seb128> or why would it be uninstalled on upgrades?
[14:04] <jibel> jbicha, the gnome session won't be removed on upgrade
[14:04] <jbicha> I think this conversation started when I pointed out that we would need to shift users from the 'ubuntu' to 'gnome' session, but then you suggested we could keep 'ubuntu'
[14:04] <seb128> right
[14:05] <seb128> is there any issue in case we keep "ubuntu"?
[14:05] <jbicha> I believe we would need to shift users from 'gnome' to 'ubuntu' then
[14:05] <gQuigs> is the ubuntu-gnome metapackage going away?  cause that might cause some things to be removed..
[14:05] <seb128> why?
[14:05] <seb128> users who opted in for "gnome" obviously wanted "gnome"
[14:05] <seb128> they are not ubuntu users following the default
[14:05] <seb128> so it's fine if they keep logging to "GNOME" after upgrade
[14:05] <seb128> why would we migrate them to "Ubuntu"?
[14:06] <jbicha> what package would ship the 'gnome' session in that case? certainly not something we would install by default, right?
[14:06] <seb128> same as in zesty?
[14:06] <seb128> ubuntu-session would be our session that we install by default
[14:06] <seb128> gnome-session the GNOME one we don't install
[14:06] <seb128> ubuntu-session content would just be the same as the gnome one
[14:07] <seb128> like we don't change any packaging, just edit the ubuntu session components
[14:07] <jbicha> one problem is that we don't install something, then it's autoremovable
[14:07] <seb128> well it was before
[14:07] <seb128> users who have gnome manually opted in for it
[14:07] <seb128> so it's not autoremovable
[14:07] <seb128> no?
[14:07] <jbicha> the other problem is assuming 'gnome' and 'ubuntu' were different, I think we do want to push upgraders to use the regular 'ubuntu' session with extensions or whatever
[14:07] <seb128> like they apt get installed that session manually to get it
[14:08] <jbicha> almost nobody manually installs 'gnome-session'
[14:08] <seb128> so almost nobody has "GNOME" listed as a session available
[14:08] <jbicha> they installed either ubuntu-gnome-desktop or simply gnome-shell (or some people install 'gnome', the Debian metapackage(!) )
[14:08] <seb128> which means it's a non existant problem?
[14:09] <seb128> I would suggest we do nothing for now and see if it turns out to be an issue in practice
[14:10] <seb128> also see if/how much Ubuntu and GNOME settings diverge
[14:10] <seb128> if they are worth being labelled differently
[14:16] <seb128> in any case if the "Ubuntu" session is default and if users have their config on "GNOME" which isn't available they should be sent to the default
[14:16] <seb128> so the end result should be what you want
[14:16] <seb128> even without migration
[14:16] <seb128> no?
[14:18] <jbicha> hopefully, I'll test that :)
[14:19] <seb128> thanks
[14:38] <ChrisTownsend> lol @ Trevinho's picture on OMG:)
[14:40] <seb128> heh
[14:54] <Trevinho> ChrisTownsend: Ops... 😅
[14:54] <ChrisTownsend> Trevinho: hahaha
[15:08] <jibel> Laney, 20170606.1 works as expected.
[15:09] <Laney> jibel: \o/
[15:09] <Laney> you want to do the honours of mailing -desktop to say that? (replying to my message)
[15:09] <Laney> or anyone else
[15:10] <willcooke> :DD good work Trevinho
[15:10] <jibel> Laney, do it :)
[15:20] <Trevinho> Laney: oh... You missed the un meeting
[15:22] <Laney> sry
[15:22] <seb128> Trevinho, it's not over yet
[15:23]  * didrocks downloads the new iso, can't join for bandwith's reason :p
[15:25] <Beret> did the gnome-shell startup thing get fixed and unity nuked again?
[15:26] <willcooke> oy, I've got to jump on a call real quick, might be a few mins late to start the meeting.  seb128, Laney - would you get us started?
[15:26] <seb128> I can
[15:26] <jbicha> Beret: yes
[15:27] <willcooke> thx seb128
[15:27] <seb128> jbicha, kenvandine, it might make sense to manually merge indicator changes manually if you don't land through billeto?
[15:27] <Beret> jbicha, sweet thanks
[15:27] <seb128> willcooke, yw, do you join back during the meeting? otherwise maybe bounce me status update emails?
[15:27] <willcooke> seb128, yeah, I'll only be a couple of mins
[15:28] <Laney> looks like lightdm needs updating to change the default session
[15:28] <jbicha> seb128: I still use bileto for unity-related stuff :)
[15:28] <Laney> the iso kicks you to a login screen because of that
[15:28] <didrocks> oh, it's in casper maybe
[15:28]  * didrocks looks
[15:28] <didrocks> did that a longgggggggggggggg time ago for UNE
[15:28] <Laney> there's no override so it uses the default
[15:29] <Laney> set in lightdm's debian/rules
[15:29] <didrocks> ah, that changed
[15:29] <seb128> jbicha, great
[15:29] <didrocks> we were setting a file in /etc IIRC for the default session previously
[15:29] <Laney> could be
[15:29] <Laney> you can also set it in lightdm.conf
[15:30] <Laney> user-session=gnome
[15:30] <seb128> oh oh oh
[15:30] <seb128> it's meeting time !
[15:30] <seb128> #startmeeting
[15:30] <meetingology> Meeting started Tue Jun  6 15:30:33 2017 UTC.  The chair is seb128. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:30] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:30] <seb128> Roll call: andyrock, dgadomski, didrocks, duflu, jbicha, jamesh, jibel/heber, kenvandine, laney, oSoMoN, seb128, tkamppeter, trevinho, robert_ancell (out)
[15:30] <andyrock> o/
[15:30] <didrocks> Laney: confirmed, only flavors do it in scripts/casper-bottom/15autologin now
[15:30] <Trevinho> Oh seb.... it's unmeeeting! :_D
[15:30] <didrocks> hey
[15:30] <Laney> nod
[15:31] <andyrock> seb128: can you put me at the end of the list? still trying to record the video
[15:31] <andyrock> :D
[15:31] <seb128> andyrock, sure
[15:31] <seb128> ok, let's get started
[15:31] <seb128> #topic dgadomski
[15:31] <seb128> dgadomski, hey
[15:31] <dgadomski> hey
[15:31] <dgadomski> * debugged a printer issue and reported bug #1695884, shared logs with tkamppeter
[15:31] <dgadomski> * back to investigating do-release-upgrade conflicting with landscape
[15:31] <dgadomski> eof
[15:32] <seb128> thanks dgadomski
[15:32] <seb128> #topic didrocks
[15:32] <seb128> didrocks, hey
[15:32] <didrocks> hey
[15:32] <didrocks> * Amazon:
[15:32] <didrocks>  - UI changed drastically with 0.9, read their new user guide and content.
[15:32] <kenvandine> o/
[15:32] <didrocks>  - Make the incoming snap multi-arch (was amd64 only previously).
[15:32] <didrocks>  - a lot of back and forth (mostly on our side) with amazon. Still blocked though.
[15:32] <didrocks> * Snap: debugged theming issues. Found a new broken use case. Added a trello card to improve/hack around multiple themes potential issues.
[15:32] <oSoMoN> o/
[15:32] <didrocks> * Removed unity from ubuntu seed (which was readded back and removed again now ;)). Tested on the ISO and found at least another package to temporary remove (ubuntu-session). We'll need to transition it and introduce an unity session.
[15:32] <didrocks> .
[15:32] <willcooke> back
[15:33] <willcooke> EOF didrocks ?
[15:33] <didrocks> yeah, that was my traditional "." :)
[15:33] <seb128> thanks didrocks
[15:33] <willcooke> thx, just wanted to be sure
[15:33] <willcooke> shall I drive seb128?
[15:34] <seb128> willcooke, what's the # to make you lead with the bot?
[15:34] <Laney> chair
[15:34] <seb128> #chair willcooke
[15:34] <meetingology> Current chairs: seb128 willcooke
[15:34] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[15:34] <seb128> willcooke, there you go
[15:34] <willcooke> #topic duflu
[15:34] <willcooke> * PulseAudio:
[15:34] <willcooke>   - SRU of A2DP Bluetooth audio fixes to xenial:
[15:34] <willcooke>     . Minor bug updates but the SRU is not progressing (no sponsors yet)
[15:34] <willcooke>     . BLOCKED?
[15:34] <willcooke> * BlueZ: Took over the 5.45 task since Konrad is busy/blocked:
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Surprisingly bluez git tags are quite different to their release tarballs of the same version. So many branches and trickery are required.
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Designed a maintenance plan and constructed lots of git branches/tags:  https://git.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/bluez/
[15:34] <willcooke>     (will document it soon)
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Prototyped bluez 5.45 packaging for artful
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Set up a PPA with 5.45: https://launchpad.net/~bluetooth/+archive/ubuntu/bluez
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Now trialling bluez 5.45 debs on artful. No problems yet.
[15:34] <willcooke> * Video acceleration:
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Working out test cases (acceptance criteria)
[15:34] <willcooke>   - Reading lots about how the various architectures are meant to work
[15:35] <willcooke>   - Learning and reading, reading and learning.
[15:35] <willcooke> * Daily bug maintenance across gnome-shell, bluez and pulseaudio.
[15:35] <willcooke> * Mir:
[15:35] <willcooke>   - Canceled the 0.28 series and proposed a new changelog and project setup for 0.27.0 (almost entirely work completed many months ago before the reshuffle).
[15:35] <willcooke> #topic jbicha
[15:35] <jbicha> • Participated in Ubuntu Docs meeting organized by GunnarHJ
[15:35] <jbicha> • Started ML discussion with GNOME Docs team about introducing a Docs String Freeze for improved translations.
[15:35] <jbicha> • Worked on getting webkit2gtk 2.16 in to Debian stretch (to follow something like how Ubuntu 16.04 LTS has handled updating this package)
[15:35] <jbicha> • There's some resistance to both the Docs and webkit2gtk proposals but I'm still hopeful
[15:35] <jbicha> • GNOME accessibility packaging in Debian's VCSs, forwarded Unity7 Orca patches to GNOME (don't know if they want them)
[15:35] <jbicha> • Completed evolution 3.24 packaging (waiting in artful new queue). The conversion to cmake made this update challenging. LP: #1685683
[15:35] <jbicha> • Began dropping UOA support from evolution-data-server and unity-control-center (LP: #1695928)
[15:35] <jbicha> eof
[15:35] <willcooke> thanks jbicha
[15:36] <willcooke> #topic jamesh
[15:36] <willcooke> I put together a PPA of gnome-builder with the Snapcraft plugin, and
[15:36] <willcooke> published some instructions for people to use it on the Snapcraft
[15:36] <willcooke> forum.
[15:36] <willcooke> I am in the process of putting together a proof of concept prototype
[15:36] <willcooke> of xdg-desktop-portal communicating with snaps.
[15:36] <willcooke> In the coming week, I will continue with the xdg-desktop-portal work,
[15:36] <willcooke> and try to upstream the gnome-builder changes (which will probably
[15:36] <willcooke> involve some changes before it is accepted).
[15:36] <willcooke> #topic jibel
[15:36] <willcooke> heber said he would be out today, are you around jibel?
[15:36] <seb128> willcooke, heber just sent an email with a summary to us
[15:37] <willcooke> ah
[15:37] <seb128> saying he has IRC issues
[15:37]  * willcooke checks mail
[15:37] <willcooke> * Investigated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1694531
[15:37] <willcooke> * Investigated https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-shell/+bug/1695212
[15:37] <willcooke> * Ubiquity tests are most stable, although with the incoming desktop iso gnome-shell we will need to fix some things.
[15:37] <willcooke> * Smoke tests fail for server issues (Timeouts, network connection errors, etc.) Seems that the server is still overloaded. Need to take actions on that.
[15:37] <willcooke> * Started work on automated installation of desktop images on HW for testing using MaaS and Testflinger.
[15:37] <willcooke> thanks heber
[15:37] <willcooke> #topic kenvandine
[15:37] <kenvandine> * gnome-3-24 platform snap is now published in the store, edge channel for now.  Once I update some of my app snaps to use it for more testing, I'll publish it in the stable channel.
[15:37] <kenvandine> * Shared the poll results and my initial thoughts with the GNOME engagement team.  We'll be getting a call arranged with the GNOME design team and the gnome-shell maintainer to discuss.
[15:37] <kenvandine> * Prepared a blog post to publish the results, it'll be published on insights later this week.
[15:37] <kenvandine> * The mir folks would like to keep the mir gtk backend enabled for now, so I'm working on re-enabling that.  I'd like to re-enable it and still build without content-hub, working on a patch for that.
[15:37] <kenvandine> * Re-added unity to the desktop seed until we can get the gdm3 MIR approved, turns out it still tried to load the gdm schema which is provided by libgdm1.
[15:37] <kenvandine> EOF
[15:38] <willcooke> thanks kenvandine
[15:38] <willcooke> #topic Laney
[15:38] <Laney> • Merged debhelper from experimental
[15:38] <Laney> ∘ There were a few regressions that I debugged / fixed, and submitted the patches upstream. All got merged now, I think. Turns out it was quite a risky release (experimental, yeesh)
[15:38] <Laney> • All that ↑ was so that I could sync fwupd
[15:38] <Laney> • ubuntu-dev-tools - finished the bzr → git migration and uploaded to experimental, synced
[15:38] <Laney> • asgen/gnome-software:
[15:38] <Laney> ∘ Some meson / buildsystem fixes
[15:38] <Laney> ∘ Implemented type=codec generation for gstreamer packages so they look nice once we use GS instead of sessioninstaller
[15:38] <Laney> ∘ Codec installation to have stopped working in gnome-software since I last tested - need to get to the bottom of that before making a PR for asgen
[15:38] <Laney> • Siloed and uploaded fixes to move the Amazon launcher from Unity to GNOME Shell
[15:38] <Laney> • Internal stuff (travel planning and work priority discussions)
[15:38] <Laney> 🙊
[15:38] <willcooke> thanks Laney
[15:39] <willcooke> #topic oSoMoN
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • upgraded to artful
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • updated chromium dev to 60.0.3112.7 then 60.0.3112.10
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • updated chromium beta to 59.0.3071.83 then 59.0.3071.86
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • chromium 59.0.3071.86 got promoted to stable last night, currently building in PPA and will hand over to ch_risccoulson when ready to publish
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • fixed chromecast bug #1621753
[15:39] <oSoMoN> • working on a script to update copyright file for chromium-browser (not updated since 2012!)
[15:39] <oSoMoN> 🔚
[15:39] <willcooke> thanks oSoMoN
[15:40] <willcooke> BTW, oSoMoN - re: Netflix - I think you should just be able to sign up for a free month's trial, would be easier than me setting it up I think (for me anyway).  If that doesnt work though, I'll get an account sorted for you
[15:40] <oSoMoN> ok, I’ll try that
[15:40] <willcooke> ta
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic seb128
[15:40] <seb128> (one day off, monday was a national holiday)
[15:40] <seb128> • debugged a bit gnome-shell not starting on the daily iso after the unity->GNOME changes (due to missing gdm schemas)
[15:40] <seb128> • tested gnome 3.24 snaps, debugged some issues with Didier and Ken
[15:40] <seb128> • reviewed libreoffice update from Olivier
[15:40] <seb128> • disabled langpack builds for ubuntu touch
[15:40] <seb128> • HR reviews
[15:40] <seb128> • some planning discussions and travel org

[15:40] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[15:40] <willcooke> #topic tkamppeter
[15:42] <willcooke> tkamppeter, ping when you're back and we'll come back to you
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - system-config-printer: Several patches to improve on recognition of discovered devices coming from the same physical device, conection type list entries in new-printer wizard, also more debug output. Patches submitted upstream, no answer from maintainer yet.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - CUPS: Mike Sweet rejected filtering network-discovered printers in CUPS. Filtering needs to be done on print dialog level. Concept will be then that the CUPS backend for the print dialog will have option to turn off listing of DNS-SD-discovered printers and then admin can control listing via cups-browsed.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Google Summer of Code 2017: Worked with the students on a D-Bus interface to connect print dialog backends with the print dialog itself.
[15:42] <tkamppeter> - Bugs.
[15:42] <willcooke> heh, solved.  thanks tkamppeter
[15:42] <willcooke> #topic robert_ancell
[15:43] <willcooke> - Made gnome-shell work without libgdm (more work required - https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1695212)
[15:43] <willcooke> - Investigation of ODRS (https://odrs.gnome.org/) for use in Ubuntu
[15:43] <willcooke> - Trello board tidying
[15:43] <willcooke> - Writing Snapcraft.io forum posts about outstanding desktop issues
[15:43] <willcooke> - Simple Scan sponsoring
[15:43] <willcooke> - Short week (Out sick and holiday)
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:43] <willcooke> andyrock, you need more time?
[15:43] <andyrock> sooo I failed to record the video
[15:43] <willcooke> ack
[15:43] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[15:43] <willcooke> So, what to do with sessions, usernames, U7 etc
[15:43] <Trevinho> Me?
[15:43] <Trevinho> willcooke: ?
[15:44] <willcooke> whaaa
[15:44] <willcooke> how did that happen
[15:44] <willcooke> #topic Trevinho
[15:44]  * Trevinho feels ignored, alone in a bench in Taipei...
[15:44] <Trevinho> :-D
[15:44] <Trevinho> · Fractional scaling in gnome-shell and mutter work (studying code, small fixes...)
[15:44] <Trevinho> · Looking at fixing st-label (gnome shell toolkit) scaling on scaled-framebuffer based mutter
[15:44] <Trevinho> · Joined the Fractional Scaling Hackfest (have you heard about it?)
[15:44] <Trevinho> · Implemented an algorithm to define the closest allowed scale for each sub-integer value we want (8 per integer at the moment)
[15:44] <Trevinho> · Working in supporting fractional scaling in gnome-control-center
[15:44] <Trevinho> · Lots of other things related to fractional scaling (like looking at bugs)
[15:44] <Trevinho>   More at http://go.3v1n0.net/FactorialScalingJournal
[15:44] <Trevinho> 😇
[15:44] <willcooke> Thanks Trevinho
[15:44] <willcooke> so, I had a question...
[15:45] <willcooke> If everything is scaled up before being re-scaled for the display its on, is that going to cause lag?
[15:45] <willcooke> Seems like n+1 compositing stages?
[15:45] <Trevinho> No really...
[15:46] <andyrock> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/sMgQi8mK/out-5.ogv
[15:46] <Trevinho> The thing is things aren't scaled up until this is not needed... When it's needed it's just a GL transformation in the compositor, so It scales Up and Down again and it will be 1:1 in 4k, while in normal monitors it will be more expensive, but really nothing you see...
[15:46] <Trevinho> at least...
[15:47] <Trevinho> with an intel driven T440s + a 4k monitor, things are pretty fast anyway
[15:47] <willcooke> got it, I think
[15:47] <willcooke> thanks!
[15:47] <willcooke> Great to read the journal
[15:47] <willcooke> exciting stuf
[15:47] <willcooke> f
[15:47] <willcooke> #topic andyrock
[15:47] <Trevinho> andyrock: thanks for including the commentary! :-D
[15:48] <andyrock> ahahah removing the audio was too complicated at this point
[15:48] <Trevinho> willcooke: it's just few lines, we'll fill better :-)
[15:48] <andyrock> so I've working on finishing up the canonical-livepatch panel
[15:48] <andyrock> and all the mocks+
[15:48] <andyrock> +
[15:48] <andyrock> I need to cleanup a little bit as thare are few corner cases still out there
[15:49] <andyrock> and I need to run the mock online
[15:49] <Laney> nice!
[15:49] <andyrock> than I'm done with this part
[15:49] <andyrock> eow
[15:49] <willcooke> awesome, thanks andyrock
[15:49] <andyrock> sorry for the audio and for the xxx directory
[15:49] <andyrock> :D
[15:49] <willcooke> I'll cut the audio out and re-share
[15:50] <andyrock> nothing bad inside
[15:50] <andyrock> :D
[15:50] <Trevinho> andyrock: the xxx directory is more important I think... :-D
[15:50] <jbicha> andyrock: I believe you! :)
[15:50] <Laney> C:\windows\system32\systemconfiguration.dll # totally not a secret zip file
[15:50] <Trevinho> but at least it *looks* tthat you pay your taxes... ;-D
[15:51] <andyrock> too much bulling
[15:51] <andyrock> :)
[15:51] <willcooke> :) thanks andyrock
[15:51] <willcooke> oki, so back to...
[15:51] <willcooke> #topic AOB
[15:52] <willcooke> Session names, Unity 7, etc etc
[15:52] <willcooke> Who wants to kick us off?
[15:52] <didrocks> Depending on what we do (but if we ship any extensions/theme change), I would suggest to use 3 sessions:
[15:52]  * kenvandine agrees
[15:52] <didrocks> - ubuntu -> GNOME with our tweaks (theme/extensions) if any
[15:52] <didrocks> - gnome -> traditional upstream GNOME, even maybe with default theme
[15:52] <didrocks> - we add an unity session for unity7
[15:52] <didrocks> (was ex ubuntu)
[15:53] <didrocks> thoughts?
[15:53] <didrocks> (default installations will only have "ubuntu")
[15:53] <jbicha> don't forget about Wayland/X
[15:53] <didrocks> why? This is an implementation detail for our users
[15:53] <jbicha> GNOME upstream has "GNOME" and "GNOME on X" (Debian stretch & Ubuntu GNOME switched that to "GNOME on Wayland" and "GNOME")
[15:53] <kenvandine> i don't think our users should see that
[15:54] <didrocks> would make sense for technical users
[15:54] <didrocks> less for others
[15:54] <kenvandine> users shouldn't care if it's Wayland or X
[15:54] <willcooke> If they can't run Wayland for whatever reason, can we invisibily move them on to X?
[15:54] <didrocks> or without fallback mechanism
[15:54] <didrocks> well, that's what we did with unity3d/2d
[15:54] <didrocks> that was 2 sessions, and we fallbacked depending on capability at runtime
[15:54] <jbicha> assuming we do Wayland by default, you're not going to give an easy option to revert to non-Wayland?
[15:55] <didrocks> well, they won't see the session name
[15:55] <didrocks> but they still can switch for more advanced users
[15:55] <jbicha> on the login screen, Ubuntu GNOME has 2 separate choices (3 if you count GNOME Classic)
[15:55] <seb128> is that something many users are going to want/need? if so why?
[15:55] <didrocks> I would think silent fallback is the best
[15:56] <kenvandine> +1 if we can
[15:56] <jbicha> there's a nasty bug in 17.04 (probably mostly fixed by the libgweather SRU) that crashes GNOME Shell
[15:56] <jbicha> if GNOME Shell crashes when you are running Wayland, you lose your session and all your work, but if you are running GNOME on X it should magically restart gnome-shell if it can (it usually can)
[15:57] <didrocks> well, sounds like more wayland bugs that needs to be fixed, I don't think anyone wants that in the long term
[15:57] <willcooke> Having many options at the login screen is too confusing.  By default we have GNOME (our implementation), if they have also installed U7, that's there, and if we do have some packages for a more vanilla GNOME and they choose to install that, ok.  But by default I think we should just have the one session available from the login screen.
[15:57] <didrocks> or everyone would stay on X forever…
[15:58] <jbicha> there are a few apps that do not run on our current implementation of GNOME on Wayland (synaptic, gparted, etc.) because they never switched to using policykit
[15:58] <didrocks> doesn't prevent to have an option for advanced users somewhere triggering the fallback on boot
[15:58] <didrocks> (s/boot/login/)
[15:58] <willcooke> jbicha, will those apps run under xwayland?
[15:59] <didrocks> but yeah, nothing in the face of our users IMHO
[15:59] <jbicha> willcooke: no, I mean there are a couple hacks we could do if we really wanted to but I think we actually do not want to weaken the security improvement
[16:00] <willcooke> can we get by without gparted?  Does disks do enough to replace it?
[16:01] <jbicha> btw, gparted is currently on the live iso but removed after install (while GNOME Disks stays)
[16:02] <willcooke> ah, right
[16:02] <jbicha> anyway, that's 2 reasons for why users might want to run X instead
[16:03] <jbicha> the only other concern is implementing a single session since upstream split it in two
[16:03] <didrocks> we can either split it (but it means 2 sessions on the login screen), or do an option in some settings which triggers the fallback at boot that we'll need either way
[16:03] <mdeslaur> I thought I switched synaptic and gparted to pkexec a while ago?
[16:05] <jbicha> mdeslaur: I'll investigate and get back with you on that
[16:05] <willcooke> jbicha, would you mind checking on that ^ ?
[16:06] <willcooke> seb128, Laney, jbicha - So did we reach a conclusion here?
[16:07] <Laney> Don't think so
[16:07] <seb128> hum
[16:07] <seb128> not really no
[16:07] <Laney> Seems to hinge on this fallback thing
[16:08] <willcooke> Who can investigate that some more?  didrocks, is your knowledge of the 2d/3d stuff useful here?
[16:08] <jbicha> GNOME already only offers Wayland if it thinks it's supported
[16:09] <jbicha> in gnome-session
[16:09] <didrocks> willcooke: for the implementation of the fallback mecanism, yes, but on knowing what to detect for wayland, I'm unsure
[16:09] <Laney> it TryExecs it
[16:09] <didrocks> ah
[16:09] <Laney> I don't know if that then falls back to X though
[16:09] <Laney> that's to show in the greeter
[16:09] <didrocks> oh right, they do it in gdm
[16:09] <didrocks> before
[16:09] <Laney> AFAIK!
[16:09] <willcooke> so more work in LightDM needed? Hummm
[16:10] <jbicha> Laney: I think it does something more complicated than a simple TryExec
[16:10] <Laney> ok, where's that then?
[16:10] <Laney> I see a TryExec in the .desktop file here
[16:10] <didrocks> willcooke: well, we will need a lightDM greeter running on wayland and one on X
[16:10] <jbicha> I see a TryExec=gnome-shell which doesn't tell you about wayland
[16:10] <didrocks> so basically, lightdm/greeter will need to do that detection
[16:11] <Laney> ?
[16:11] <Laney> it's in /usr/share/wayland-sessions/
[16:12] <Laney> anyway, I never read the code to find out if that is what happens :)
[16:13] <willcooke> seb128, Laney - could you get us to a point that we can talk more on Thursday, and try and get this resolved one way or the other by Friday EOD?
[16:13] <jbicha> I think part of it is that GDM runs with Wayland by default
[16:13] <jbicha> but if GDM is running as X then it does not provide a Wayland option
[16:14] <didrocks> seb128: Laney: don't forget my point about the lightdm greeter in both flavors is needed (wayland and X), so I guess doing the right session presentation is needed at an earlier stage that we had
[16:14] <seb128> didrocks, do we need them at the same time?
[16:14] <seb128> or just fallback to start a X one if wayland fails?
[16:15] <didrocks> seb128: "same time", being?
[16:15] <seb128> willcooke, should be doable, we can continue that discussion after meeting/tomorrow
[16:15] <willcooke> thanks
[16:15] <willcooke> ok, anyone got more AOB before we close the meeting?
[16:15] <seb128> didrocks, "in both flavors" you mean having option to use it with wayland or X or having one of each on different VTs?
[16:16] <jbicha> the other question was if unity7 would be autoremovable for upgraders
[16:16] <seb128> willcooke, I have one that can wait next week (rediscuss i386 iso status)
[16:16] <didrocks> seb128: no, I mean, lightdm needs to be smart to start an X version of the greeter if the wayland one doesn't work
[16:16] <seb128> didrocks, right, agreed
[16:16] <didrocks> (and so, we need a wayland based greeter and an X one)
[16:17] <seb128> are those different greeters? or just lightdm being smart enough to know what server to use and the same greeter code?
[16:17] <seb128> anyway to discuss with Robert I guess
[16:17] <willcooke> oki, lets speak about auto remove U7 then
[16:17] <didrocks> don't know, yeah, Robert should know more
[16:17] <seb128> thanks for poiting it out didrocks
[16:17] <didrocks> yw!
[16:17] <seb128> I'm going to email Robert and Cc you/L_aney/j_bicha
[16:17] <seb128> and Will
[16:17] <willcooke> thanks seb128
[16:18] <didrocks> thx
[16:19] <willcooke> Auto remove U7 - very tricky.  I don't really have a strong feeling.  It's not that we're offering up GNOME Shell as a preview here, it is the new desktop.  So removing it seeeeems to be ok.
[16:19] <didrocks> we didn't remove gnome classic when switching to unity
[16:19] <willcooke> But it will be surprising to a few people, no doubt
[16:19] <seb128> I'm a bit balanced on that as well
[16:19] <didrocks> I don't think it's a  policy to remove things for people who upgrade (but we change default session with our new things)
[16:19] <seb128> maybe to revist once we have some feedback about what users think of the new desktop
[16:19] <didrocks> I would suggest we keep unity, just move it to this new session for people who want to reswitch
[16:19] <seb128> but yeah what didrocks says
[16:19] <jbicha> LP: #1686081 is a nasty bug if a user has Unity7 installed
[16:20] <kenvandine> don't want to shock the users
[16:20] <jbicha> currently, there are zero people maintaining unity7
[16:20] <seb128> jbicha keeps nagging about that one
[16:20] <jbicha> unity7 FTBFS right now and I'd like if someone could help me on it :)
[16:20] <jbicha> (test failures)
[16:21] <seb128> Trevinho, andyrock, ^ can you have a look?
[16:21] <seb128> jbicha, do you have a bug open about that?
[16:21] <seb128> would be useful to assign etc
[16:21] <jbicha> I'll probably open a bug, but currently it was briefly discussed at https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/unity/drop-uoa-recommends/+merge/325097
[16:21] <andyrock> it's eod for me
[16:21] <seb128> please open a bug and give me the ref
[16:21] <andyrock> I can take a look tomorrow
[16:22] <seb128> I see with andyrock tomorrow
[16:22] <seb128> andyrock, yeah tomorrow is fine, thanks
[16:23] <jbicha> I would be happier with Unity7 if it could be ported to use unity-settings-daemon, unity-control-center but that needs more work to reimplement stuff that GNOME upstream dropped
[16:23] <seb128> you mean gnome-settings-daemon?
[16:23] <jbicha> oops, yes
[16:24] <seb128> well the oem team would like to backport libinput support for xenial ideally
[16:24] <seb128> so maybe that specific synaptic issue is resolved by that work
[16:24] <seb128> well "backport", rather add and backport
[16:24] <jbicha> yes, that would fix that
[16:25] <seb128> on removing let's maybe revisit in another meeting or discuss on the list?
[16:25] <willcooke> +1
[16:25] <seb128> we quite overrun already
[16:25] <willcooke> let's get the blockers looked at in the meantime too
[16:25] <seb128> yeah
[16:25] <jbicha> some GNOME apps really want GNOME Online Accounts to be available but that's messy with having 2 control-centers in Unity7
[16:26] <willcooke> I will add that bug to the Trello board and we can get someone assigned
[16:26] <seb128> well uoa is deprecated so it wouldn't be 2 in artful
[16:26] <seb128> willcooke, thanks
[16:26] <jbicha> right, UOA is gone but GOA is a gnome-control-center panel
[16:26] <seb128> right :-/
[16:27] <seb128> let's do another meeting about unity7
[16:27] <seb128> it's too much to discuss today
[16:27] <seb128> maybe meanwhile list issues on a wiki or bugtag them
[16:27] <jbicha> it is possible to run Unity7 without unity-settings-daemon but a few things don't work (some media-keys shortcuts, gnome-control-center's displays panel, etc.)
[16:28] <willcooke> ok, going to close this meeting now.  Seb, let's talk i386 next week.  We can carry on this discussion in a moment ^
[16:29] <willcooke> seb128 is going to email Robert
[16:29] <kenvandine> cool
[16:29] <willcooke> We need to look at that libinput stuff again
[16:29] <willcooke> and then we can decide what to do with U7
[16:29] <willcooke> Is that right?
[16:30] <jbicha> yes
[16:30] <willcooke> :) thanks jbicha
[16:30] <willcooke> in which case...
[16:30] <willcooke> #endmeeting
[16:30] <meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Jun  6 16:30:24 2017 UTC.
[16:30] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-desktop/2017/ubuntu-desktop.2017-06-06-15.30.moin.txt
[16:30] <willcooke> thanks a lot everyone
[16:30] <didrocks> thx
[16:31] <willcooke> The full hour long meeting for the first time in a while :)
[16:31] <willcooke> and there still wasnt time to talk about everything
[16:31] <jbicha> we may have a bunch to discuss next week too
[16:31] <willcooke> \o/
[16:31] <willcooke> I think it's great that we've got so much going on
[16:31] <willcooke> exciting
[16:32] <seb128> thanks
[16:32] <seb128> indeed, good discussions
[16:32]  * seb128 needs to go now
[16:32] <willcooke> night seb128
[16:32] <seb128> I catch up with some topics and send emails a bit later
[16:32] <seb128> bye willcooke
[16:58] <gQuigs> oSoMoN: do you need a netflix tester for something?
[16:59] <willcooke> gQuigs, in theory Chromium should now support Netflix if you also have Chrome installed (because it needs the DRM libs)
[16:59] <willcooke> Its not working for me on 16.04, but it should do
[16:59] <willcooke> That's as far as my testing went, so if you feel like digging in to it a bit more, that would be great
[17:00] <willcooke> and ya know, Rick & Morty is on Netflix
[17:00] <willcooke> dinner, bbl
[17:02] <pisi0> hey guys, what is ubuntu 17.10 default Login manager, LightDM or GDM?
[17:05] <jbicha> pisi0: it's still LightDM right now
[17:08] <oSoMoN> gQuigs, so I don’t really know what it takes to make netflix work in chromium, I was hoping that it would just work as is (as willcooke said you’d need chrome installed though), but apparently it’s not, so I need to dig into it
[17:08] <oSoMoN> when I have something to test I’ll make sure to announce it
[17:09] <oSoMoN> it’s not my top priority atm though
[17:09] <pisi0> jbicha: Why still LightDM ,will it change?
[17:11] <jbicha> pisi0: we're hopeful that we can get LightDM to look like GNOME LP: #1694962
[17:34] <Laney> night
[18:08] <jbicha> kenvandine: https://code.launchpad.net/~jbicha/signon/dont-recommend-transitional-pkg/+merge/325176
[18:09] <kenvandine> jbicha, approved
[19:38] <ximion> Laney: from your newsletter mail, I noticed that you still seed app-install-data for the partner repo - is there a reason why that's still there?
[19:38] <ximion> (or is that just a "will be converted to AppStream at some point but nobody did it yet")
[19:38] <ximion> I'm asing since GS doesn't support app-install, so that was a bit weird for me
[19:46] <oSoMoN> good night all
[19:54] <willcooke> night all
[20:59] <dmj_s76> Trevinho: I noticed you're doing a hackfest for scaling in gnome shell.  Mind if I weigh in with System76's considerations?
[22:17] <xnox> Laney, do you sync launchpad merge proposals / bug status to trollo boards?


[21:20] <kyrofa> I'm putting together a release party in Walla Walla, WA if anyone is interested
[21:23] <valorie> ooooo, nice!
[21:23] <valorie> I'm afraid that's too far for me to drive, kyrofa
[21:24] <kyrofa> valorie, yeah I figure most people will be on the other side of the state, haha
[21:24] <valorie> have you written to the PNW list though?
[21:24] <valorie> you could get some Oregon people
[21:24] <kyrofa> valorie, no, but I will as soon as we've nailed down the time and place for sure
[21:24] <valorie> perhaps a few idahoans
[21:24] <valorie> awesome
[21:24] <valorie> would be cool to have a followup on that list as well


[16:54] <tjaalton> should snap apps work on the wayland session?
[16:55] <tjaalton> telegram doesn't seem to be listed though it's installed, and works on X